The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked Every Small Forward In The NBA | Ep. 47

Episode Date: July 28, 2023

Today we rank every NBA small forward as we continue our offseason position rankings! #nba Join The TD3 Discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Jaylen Brown Contract 20:38- Top 30 SF Rankings 1:39:48- TikTok Time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So I've opened the last two episodes by saying we're in the dead of the off season. Not a thing has happened. But today something finally happened. It wasn't the biggest thing in the world. But it was something. Jalen Brown finally got his supermax extension. The fattest contract in NBA history to the 21st best player in the league. How are we all feeling about this?

Look, man, all right. Regardless of how people feel about it, good or bad, at the end of the day, you need to take it as inspiration. This man's own teacher told this. man, hey, I'll see you in the Cobb County jail system in a couple of years from now. Back when he was like 16, 15 years old or whatever. Yeah, exactly, bro. So for someone who doesn't have a left hand, this should be inspirational to all the right-handed hoopers out there.

Yeah, man, as long as you're very good at what you can do, you don't got to be the best. You can cash in. You know what's the most insane thing I saw? I saw someone put up a tweet of a literal only right-handed Hooper. He wasn't Emmanuel Hanzel. There was some other dude. He was going crazy, and he was like, I forget what the caption was, but it was absolutely hilarious and out of pocket.

Very out of pocket. Jaylon Brown got five years, $300 million, $60 million a year average. It's not quite how it works. It kind of levels up, but by the end of the contract, he could be making over $60 million a year. they better win a ring they better win a ring that's all that's all I have to say

like if you do if you walk away from this era after paying Jalen Brown giving Tatum his money going out trading trading for Christophezzas and you still have no ring you're an embarrassment

and you are you will be the laughing stock of the NBA I don't care how good they are they can be the number one seed for the next five years if there is no championship ring at the end of it you are a laughing stop and that's just simple in play man do you think this is a okay so that i agree but my question is without that on just all things

being equal is this a good deal for the celtics like should they have done this should they have done it yes is it a good deal for them no like they they had to do it because there wasn't really a path forward to either like stay as good and stay as competitive unless you unless you actually thought that like that the dame for jalen brown deal was like all the table ready to be signed like if if that if that wasn't real and I don't think that that that it was a lot of people I've said like that you know that never really had any real like credence to it then for the Celtics you had to do this you had to keep this core together Tatum is entering his prime Jalen Brown is entering his prime and these two stars

that you've created your team around right these two very dynamic wings in terms of like scoring the basketball you have to do this in order to stay with where you are because they've made the Eastern Conference finals like five times in the last what eight years or whatever you have to keep the momentum going but i think it's four times in five years which is nuts with that core yeah what about you mo how do you feel what's your temperature on this deal i mean similar ways to what donovan said i'm looking at it from a perspective where like you have to do this because there's nothing else on the table that makes sense um and if you're not going to it doesn't make sense to go

ahead and like play the long game with jalen brown and like trade him for scraps and potentially take a couple steps back in order to you know take you don't take a couple steps back for fit unless like you have a prime time opportunity and the Boston Celtics did not have that I really do hope that they had at least a couple conversations with teams like the Portland Trailblazers or whoever else but I think they did what they had to do and it's screaming to me you know know, like, they genuinely believe that Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, along with Chris House, Przingis, will take them to the Promise Land. Although I do think, like, they did nothing to help at all, like, solve the issues, the deep rooted issues that stained their

team throughout the, over the last few years between this duo. So I feel like they did what they're supposed to do. Like, if I'm, if I'm the GM2, I probably do the same thing. And, you know, like, this is the NBA. They really had no. choice. They had no choice. As soon as Jalen Brown qualified for the supermax, you had to give it to them. If anybody who qualifies the supermax unless they're like clearly not even like all-star level, they're going to get it. Especially as a homegrown star like Jalen Brown, how can you look a player in their eyes and say you don't deserve this maximum amount of money that you qualified for or making all NBA? That's just horrible for team chemistry. It's not going to lead to

anything productive. So they were kind of screwed and which leads to a bigger picture conversation has the supermax has like not helped the teams at all it's been good for players individually to make more money but every single player besides like step curry and yokech who have gotten supermax it's been a mistake like it's never worked out well unless it's like the best guy in the lead yeah that's an even deeper conversation man like what the supermax was intended to do seems like it's might be backfiring you know in terms of just like keeping your home growing star and stuff yeah whatever cool like you guess you could say it makes sense but overall like it just feels like just because you make it all there's like I don't know all NBA first

team is very different from all NBA 13 like it's a couple there's a couple tiers difference you know and so I think literally two tiers between yeah yeah no quite quite obviously quite literally but but I think that things need to be re-evaluated and readjusted so teams don't strangle themselves with the cap and all that stuff because yeah because jalen deserves his money but it's very hard to build the team when 45% of your cap is going to the 20th best player in the league like a really good second option that could arguably a first option on many nights if your star player isn't there but it's like you said unless he's a top five guy he's not going to be worth that much money in your cap it limits for flexibility so dancers probably like they should

be able to give him that money but it only counts as a regular 35% max against the cap but that's not where we're at so it's it's a lose-lose situation listen get at get at get Adam on the phone. We can talk to Adam. We can help him figure out, you know, the league, figure out the Supermax because like you said, it's just, and it's funny because a lot of these things, like a lot of the rules that get put into place are meant to like help small market teams and are meant to help, you know, like, like the Supermax is so that the smaller markets can give their homegrown stars, these big contracts to try and keep and get them to stay. But guys are getting the Supermax and then a year in.

they ask for trade. Like if they're truly unhappy, they're just asked for a trade request and then it's like, okay, are you actually going to, are you just going to let this person not play games and they're just going to sit out on the side and it's just like a dead asset?

Or are you going to trade them because they're unhappy and you can just fix the chemistry? So it doesn't, like it puts the players in a position where they have immense leverage once they sign this, the Supermax and it's...

Sometimes, but sometimes the team decides that the Supermax contract isn't worth keeping on the book. We saw Blake Griffin. He got it, and then a year later, they traded him by their own volition. Sick. That was funny, though. Either way it goes, it's never, like, it's very rarely in the best interest for both parties for this deal to continue.

Like, it's hard to make that work. Yeah, man. Yeah, we, are we abolishing the Supermax? Is that, is that the stance, as a pod, as a pod, is that the stance that we're taking? As it stands, it should just, it should be adjusted, not abolish, like, exactly. Nobody benefits if it counts as much against the cap as you're giving them. it should be something that is like a true benefit to the team

not just you can give them proper value but like it shouldn't count properly value don't I mean like it shouldn't be one to one or else there's no real benefit yeah no that makes that makes sense but on the other hand people are having a lot of shell shock reaction to the $300 million number

and like how can you give him this much money for someone who's not one of the best players in the league and realistically if he didn't make all NBA and he qualified for a 40% max instead of 45 or maybe it's 35 and 40, whatever the numbers are, they weren't going to have cat space regardless. Either way, it's, it looks like a big number, but it's the same proportion of the cap as it was before. The cap is going up. So, to be fair, there is some overreaction to the numbers.

Like, it tangibly doesn't make a huge difference. Yeah. I feel like, go ahead, Donovan. At a certain point, though, right? And like, you can look at stuff by percentages. But once we're going to get to a point where the money is so big, where percentages out the, out the door some some mid-level guy is going to be getting paid like you know 25 30 million dollars and just like this is wild right like just the just the sheer number because once once you start you know talking about hundreds of millions of dollars and we can get into you know percentages and everything 50 million dollars until like once the once the cap goes up I think we're going to get to a point where

it's just going to be impossible to look at the number and not be shot at just how much and just how much money it is and it's like yo this guy is just like you said he's the 20th best player in the league and he's now owner of like the richest contract in NBA history obviously obviously that's going to change that but he's making he's going to make 70 million dollars and I don't think any of us that's how it goes like I don't think any of us think that like jana brown is going to be like a top five player in the league and he's making 70 million in two years from now he'll be the 20th highest paid player in the league like it's how it goes like it comes in cycles so like it's hard not to overreact but there's 12 other players who have the supermax he has the same

proportion of the cap as them what's the other next 12 come they'll have that new cap salary that he signed under it'll be it'll level out over time kuzma's gonna be making 45 million dollars a year pretty soon god man i'm just gonna lose my mind yeah it's like these big ass numbers are so mind-boggling and I feel like in the era that we grew up in us specifically around our age like 2K my league and all that heavy influence in terms of like ball knowledge and all that and I feel like throughout this time period we've like gone a lot of people have gone a good just of what type of value NBA players should be given or awarded but now because a lot of back end stuff happening

TV deals and all that like a lot of people don't have their scale isn't updated in terms of what each player is valued at and so like in the future for sure like next time that Luca don't let's say not cool but say Luca Don't just gets an opportunity to go ahead

and sign a fat ass bag he's going to be making a hundred million dollars like a year eventually it's going to happen whether he's like 30 or 27 it's going to happen you know and it's just a thing that's no one's ever going to be able to get over because of how fast these things seem to like be moving just a couple years ago my uncle luau dang was making 17 million dollars a year

my uncle's yeah i think a lot of people still view like max salary guys at like 30 million dollars still like the baseline people's heads from back to mike con they got that deal and like 30 was like the typical max but now there's different forms of max contracts and different like rookie designated extensions just like so many different tiers now that nothing's consistent that like 50 million is kind of the new 30 but then there's some guys making 60 some guys making 65 like there's no easy number to look at anymore what they used to be so it's confusing for the average fan listen between the jalen brown contract and imbaping and offered a billion dollars to go play soccer and Saudi no no number makes sense to me anymore I don't know what

anybody is worth because it's just on a complete just crazy spectrum of how much money is in professional those sports right now. It's just crazy, it's wild. Catch up. Don't be a boomer, man. Catch up and get updated with the system. That's how boomers are created. $69 million for Jalen Brown. Do you, like, if you, if that money was coming out of your bank account, would you be happy?

Bro, what? I mean, but at that point, they're going to be paying $250 million a year for the caps, so it'll be fine. It's it's all relative. Yeah. It's nasty word. That's what it is. Now, when it comes to the on the court

stuff, they're, like we said, a couple episodes ago back when I think they lost Eastern Conference Fines or whatever, they're fully being on to, such a hated talk, they're fully leading into Jason Tatum being the one obviously clear as day in terms of like, yeah, like this playmaking, we don't have, we can't get it from outside. We can't outsource anything. We have to dig in-house. And Jason Tatum has to be trusted with the ball more because and be like that type of facilitator yeah for sure and jalen but mainly like in my mind all the spotlights on him and what type of actual leap is he going to make for sure i mean tainan's made playmaking leaps over the last couple years like he's a solid playmaker now you used to be a black hole

jalen can't be dribbling off his knees getting ripped by every player on the heat every five seconds anymore like he has to carry that burden which doesn't mean a whole lot because he already had to this year because he's already that second guy but it's just emphasized pressure on him to somehow get better at those things. Who knows if he can, but he won't. It's just an even greater spotlight on his biggest weakness. He won't, he won't. He's about to go into year eight.

Like, outside of Brooke Lopez, like this is, it's not even something, it's not even something where it's, it's like a minor weakness. This is a major, major flaw of his. And I, and again, outside of Brooke Lopez, I don't think that we've seen anybody who's been able to. Blake Griffin. like Trent with Blake well Blake in yeah true what's the weakness what's the weakness for Blake well he wasn't a great pastor and he was young and he became a really good

facilitator just late Clippers years into the Pistons year he's like a point forward and obviously shooting three point shooting yeah exactly but that's a little different than playmaking feel but Blake definitely had big transformation too Pistons Blake was fucking different best version of the Marta Rosen did it with the Spurs he became a really good playmaker for those couple years when they needed him to be like the kind of pseudo point guard so it's possible but you know we just named three players there's fucking 6,000 in the rest of the history of the league who didn't do that so it's not like the numbers are in his favor yes most players are who they are when they're 29

that's what I'm saying and I just I just don't believe because if you can't if you if he didn't make that leap coming off of the finals loss where he also could not dribble then it's like hey you don't have a left hand and it really just costs us a championship do you think that you can get in the lab and work on that and like let's Listen, I know for a fact that him and Kyrie, they probably run in the same. They probably hang out a lot, right? They're probably on the same wavelength. You can call Kyrie and ask for some dribbling drills and do whatever you need to do to get some handles.

Imagine being the highest paid player in the NBA and you ask your ex-teammate, hey, can you come teach me how to play basketball? Please do it. Do it. Because this is back-to-back years that the Celtics have. had Jalen Brown and his flaws be a major major issue for them and it's not and it's not something where I don't feel like we're overreacting whenever we talk about oh his we're not like you know whenever we're talking about his dribbling is a problem it's an issue

and he hasn't fixed it and if he doesn't if he 100% doesn't fix it going into next year I will lose hope that this will ever be something that he can fix yeah it's not even necessarily just dribbling either it's like sure yeah he's not a good dribbler but like a lot of players aren't like Clay Thompson is not a good dribbler but it matters because the way the Celtics roster is set up without a true point guard with very very limited passing ability on the roster you're forcing these guys to be the two lead playmakers Jalen and Tatum so it's just like an added emphasis on that skill because of the players around him there's plenty of teams out there that you put Jailen there his lack of handle or lack of playmaking wouldn't be a big issue

you throw them on the Hawks next to Trey young it wouldn't make it matter that much. But when you're next to Jason Tatum and Derek White and Chris Osperzingis and Robert Williams and just a lot of guys who aren't top tier passers, then that weakness becomes something that he has to actually go to. So it's loud as fuck. His weakness is base boosted. It's amplified

like shit on the team like the Boston Celtics. Meanwhile, if you're our team like if you're on a team like the Atlanta Hawks, you got a silencer on that bitch. Yeah, it's like a red flag, but like, you know what I'm saying? You can get away with it most of the time. So. Exactly. I just hope, you

know that the Celtics are right in terms of something that I also want to say before I finish my thought like these dudes are still pretty young and you know in terms of like the timeline of how long it takes for X and X player typically to go ahead and finally make that championship hump they're right on par you know in terms of that sure so I don't I'm not like calling this a rap I'm not saying oh it's a terrible deal or anything like that I think they did exactly exactly what they're supposed to, I think they did exactly what they're supposed to do. That's fair.

But a lot of times when teams get over that championship hump, it's because they make a clear trade to address a weakness. The bucks couldn't get over the hump. They got Drew Holiday. They got a playmaker next to Janus who can allow Janus to be the guy sitting screens on picking roles, be the guy being a lot of threat, and use his playmaking secondarily because he also couldn't be the league playmaker. Or you think of any of the team that made that leap, well, what's the other team that

in recent history. You can think of the Tarana Raptors, if you want. Yeah, they added Kauai. It's not a liar. But you know what I mean? Like the teams that get over that hump after a few years of the core together, there's a reason why.

And we could argue the stuff except on the opposite, and they've exasperated their biggest weakness and didn't address it. Maybe Porzingas proves to be the talent needed to push them over the edge, but it's not as simple. It's just having enough good players you're going to be good.

They have to fit together. And their weaknesses, like you said, are still the weaknesses. Now, they're on the clock, though. They are. They're on the clock. You've been to the conference finals year after year after year. You were up to one in the NBA finals and lost three straight and gave up like a 21 to nothing run on your home floor in game six.

I don't want to hear, especially next year. I don't want to hear anything about, oh, the Celtics, they're still kind of young, like the 26, 20s. Yo, all of these guys have been in the Eastern Conference finals since the day they walked into the league. Tatum was in the Eastern Conference Finals. Jalen Brown was there. all of them have experience now you've been through enough games you've been through enough series win something it's time it's time for the celtics to to win and and you're giving people 300 million dollars you're trading for for zingis you're making all these moves your time is now

and if you do not win a championship it is it's a failure it's like it's an other they 100% are championship robust this season and this contract and this contract is is uh is an indicator of that. Shout out to the Boston Celtics. Your hands of your future will be decided by bald head, Derek White. Good luck, man. Isn't it crazy that McHale Bridges is older than Jalen Brown? That's so freaky to think about, dude.

It's like three months older than Jalen Brown. How the fuck is that possible? That sounds illegal, man. I feel like you just lied to me right there. And I can't do anything to question because I feel like you're right, because I feel like Miles or McHall Bridges has been in college for like what two years or something like that so yeah i think jayling uh jillan like what's it called reclassified so he came in really young yeah exactly macao i was watching the i was watching the paul george

podcast and i think he said like during high school in college he never clipped that 30 point per game mark so obviously it took him some time to go ahead and you know he couldn't leapfrog people as you as easily as jillam brown so uh speaking of bridges i think that transitions us into the topic of this episode that you see in the title, we're going to rank our top 30 small fours in the NBA, continuing the trend we've been doing this whole month where we've gone position by position. Now we're at the threes.

I like this list so much better than last week's. Last week was horrible. We were in the trenches last week, but we have overcome. The small forward list is arguably the best list in the entire league in terms of position. And I'm very excited to see where we're at. Right before we get into these lists, y'all need to go ahead and join the Discord.

Also, leave a like on this video. Go ahead, give us five stars across all audio platforms and drop a fat-ass comment and also like again on this video. We may continue. Nice. Yeah, as always, the Discord link will be in the description of this video. We're going to be there. It should be fixed. It was broken for a long time.

It should be good now. Yeah, man. I'll send my first five names, and we'll get straight to this list. Shout out to the mods. At number 30, I have Herbert Jones at 29 DeAndre Hunter, 27 Trey Murphy, I mean, 28, Tray Murphy, 27 Kelton Johnson, and 26, R.J. Barrett. How do you all feel? Silence filled the room. I see Mo's, like, dumbfounded by what? Dude, DeAndre Hunter's 29? You think R.J. Barrett is better than DeAndre Hunter? You're off the rocks, man.

You're crazy. Marginly. They're both mid as far. You'd rather have R.J. Bear on your team? You're telling me that right now? You'd rather build around R.J. Bear or have him as a cornerstone piece? Cornerstone at what?

I mean, I would rather build around Arjail. You're thinking about it wrong. You're thinking about it all wrong. Neither one of them are building around pieces. They're not cornerstone guys. So this isn't a conversation of, you never build a. the run either that's an irrelevant question because if you're building around d'andre hunter you're in hell but if i'm just trying to say who's better overall who provides more value i give the slight edge to

rj i feel like hunter is very solidly does i was going to say very good he's not very good at anything but he's solid his role and it doesn't cost you anything i guess you could say rj has some negatives that hurt you at times but i think rj has a little bit higher of a talent ceiling ceiling for sure but that's literally the only thing not something like long term but currently Yeah, whatever. Anyways, I think if you apply him, this isn't mean he's a better player necessarily, but a lot of teams would have so much easier of a time figuring out where DeAndi Hunter would fit on their team and how he could easily provide value and elevate their team compared to someone like RJ Barrett where you'd have to finish and finagle his play style into a winning game and brand of basketball. Now, I agree like RJ Barrett like currently and also like just overall, I will forever think that I like RJ Barrett just naturally has. has a higher ceiling because he's just more aggressive and he was and he's in that mold of a scoring small forward over but that's a dream that's a reality that's that's not reality and yeah well they're both mid so if you want to put they're so close hunter could be a little better

i don't even care like i care they both suck god they both suck the moral of the story is tray Murphy's better than deandre hunter that's not negotiable if you want to push rj down to 30 i don't give a fuck that's fine change the list right now i honestly i put rj this high to try to be objective and be polite because i'm constantly crapping on rj and i do not think he's very good i was like let me put aside my feelings about a style of play he's probably talented enough to deserve to be a little bit higher than 30 i wanted to put him next to herb jones to be honest hmm man well i think well listen well i don't disagree with the idea that like they're very close as you guys will see in my rankings,

I think you're wrong in your assessment that, that like you have to do a lot of finageling to make RJ Barrett, like, fit into some winning system. And, like, DeAndre Hunter is just this perfect glue guy. Like, relax. Yeah, The Hunter sucks. Relax. He's not, he's not all that either.

So it's like, he's not. Are you kidding me. Guy who's only okay at three is an okay at deed. Listen. This is more about DeAndre Hunter being disappointing than it is anything about R.J. Barrett. He definitely has been disappointing. but when it comes to at least on the offensive end dude average what 16 points in the postseason

in the postseason for us the year before that 21 points the year before that five game 10 points yes that's better than r j bear that's better than not any game that rj bear has ever had because i don't give a fuck about a five game samples i do i do i do this means something to me man all right the numbers you said 16 congratulations we're talking about you said like it was 30 like you got 16 for five games great like While I say this, I do need RJ or DeAndre Hunter off my team, respectfully. So I can go ahead and let this go. Yeah, mid-off.

Thank you. Thank you. All right. I'm sending in my five. Let's keep this moving. At 30, I've Kyle Slow Mo Anderson. 29. I've Gordon Hayward.

At 28, I have Kelden Johnson. 27, I have Dylan Brooks. And at 26, I have RJ Barrett. good grief what how Anderson what possessed you to put Kyle Slowmo Anderson on Kyle Anderson is nice Kyle Anderson is lit bro listen he's he's really good and when you're looking at like when you watch the Tim Wolves and they had a lot of they had a lot of issues last year but Kyle Anderson was one of those guys where when he's in the game things just work better he was a really good connector for them and sure and when you have like when

your team is aunt cat and rudy gobert you really really need people to help facilitate the offense right or else you're just going to get aunt you know going one-on-one and cow Anderson was one of those guys where he was doing a lot of that and he was and so i think for him like he provides a lot of value for the timulovs i think that he even in even in memphis the year the year prior he was doing a lot of that he just he's a swiss army knife he's a veteran he knows what he's doing and i think that he contributes to winning basketball at a very good level. So it's like, yeah, do I think that he's a starting small forward in the league? Yeah, I do.

Do I think that Kyle Anderson can help a team win a championship or like be, even if he's not like a starter? Can Kyle Anderson come off the bench and improve your second unit? 100%. So like, yeah. So, yeah, I'll put Kyle Anderson at 30. I like that. Yeah, me, if you told me I had to replace Herb Jones and Kyle Anderson, I'd have no issue with that for number 30.

Yeah, exactly. You put Kyle Anderson on literally any team in the NBA and there's a clear pathway as to how he'd thrive. Put him on the Warriors. Good grief. That's a disgusting combo. Put him on the Detroit Pistons. Don't say this now.

You were just, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. What? No, no, no. I just wanted to know what possessed you to go ahead. I love it. I love him.

What do you mean? I love him. I am not an example. You're a stand. I'll run the tape back. I heard what possessed you to put Kyle Anderson on your mess. Yeah, just because I'm curious. like because you don't see

Carl Anderson on any type of list whatsoever like ever this is the first time I've seen on any type of list bro but I love it I'm a fan of this any list ever like nobody's ever wrote his name down yeah exactly maybe he's been on the list of like most like top five or top ten

most weirdest game in NBA history because it just stands out so clearly but I'm going to go ahead and send my list in at 30 I got Dylan Brooks now I understand he's not like

there's one name on your on your list it's not Dylan Brooks but we can get to it okay so at 30 Dylan Brooks 29 Kegan Murray 28 I have Trey Murphy 27 Kelly Ubre and Josh Hart at 26

now I forgot about Kelly Ubray because he's not on a team so I forgot about him fuck yeah Kelly Ubre is like I don't know like he averaged 20 points per game, which is crazy as hell to say. But I hate using this word, but those are some of the most empty stats, empty calorie stats that I've ever seen in my entire. He was pretty good this year.

It's easy to say that because he's playing for the Hornets. But Kelly, Uber had a solid season. He was good. It's okay, but it's like the, to point and be like, oh, he average 20. Yeah, because like Lamella wasn't, because Lamella wasn't there right before the season, Miles Bridges did what he did. So it's like, yeah, we're going to, we're going to go to our fourth best play. and just let you get up shots tonight he filled the role he did his thing yeah he did what he had

to do yeah for sure shout to him but 20 comes to 27 27 is a bit high for yeah kegan murray is way too low that's the issue there's no world with kelly uber he's better than kegan murray really no world keegan murray's good i have kegan murray much higher nice i like that i was kind of scared to put him on my list in general but i'm happy you said that um i'm not fighting or dying i don't know i feel like damn after all after defending

or after saying kelly ubery's nice whatever we're saying he's way kagan murray's way better that's kind of crazy i don't know if i'd say way better because we're talking about like a rookie still but it's so hard to compare the two i have kegan like nine spots higher than you something like that and i would have ubrae around 29 30 if i was gonna have them on my list yeah like ubrae versus trey murphy that's a good debate. I don't think Uber versus Keegan Murray

is much of debate. I think Keegan Murray is more valuable in just about every way. I'm not arguing that whatsoever. I do love Keegan Murray because I think during the first like three games of the NBA playoffs against the Warriors, this dude was butt, booty cheeks, ass, bro.

He shot like 23% from the field and averaged like three points. And then during the last four games, I would say, he put up like 16 on pretty nice efficiency and he just went through that like rookie curve. So shout out to him. He probably should be hiring those lists, but I just saw Kelly Ubram like 20 points per game.

You deserve this respect, homie. It's empty, but you deserve it. Interesting, we all had Trey Murphy in about the same spot. Actually, no, Donovan didn't have him on here yet. Donovan, is Trey Murphy on your list? Yeah, he's on my list. Okay, so you have him higher, interesting. Yeah.

Okay, well, we'll wait to talk about Tren Murphy to we see how high you got him. Yeah. Who else we all have on our list in the same area? Mo hasn't listed Kelton Johnson yet. Is he on your list? Yeah, he's on my list He's just a little bit higher Okay

It's a little bit higher Interesting I kind of name I didn't put him on his list I forgot Because it was like a mix up Between him On the shooting guard list

Or small forward Yeah That's cool It's a good spot for him For counting him Backs Brits You have Brooks much

A lot You guys both have Brooks lower Than me Lower Up my next five Woo I have a little Good chunk

See I was I put him at 30 Also because of like Background stuff I saw a tweet That came out today Talking about how this man wants to let me just go ahead and wait until you go ahead and send off your list then i can go in

okay i'll do my next five we'll go to my next five yeah next five i have kegan murray at 21 bruce brown at 22 Harrison barnes of 23 Dylan brooks at 24 and gordon herod at 25 i would tell you right now Harrison barnes is much too high he's much too high that's that's a little bit that's a little bit too much respect for me so is Harrison barnes not on your list no he's not Oh, your list is trash. Your list is trash! You think Kyle Anish is better than Harrison Barnes? Yes.

I would... Get a grip. Get a grip. I would rather have Kyle Anderson on my team than Harrison Barnes. You just don't like Harrison Barnes. That's ridiculous. Harrison Barnes... Listen, if we are talking about Kyle Anderson,

I love these rankings. We get the craziest, the craziest debates. But if we're talking about Kyle Anderson versus Harris, I can't say without laughing. Dirty, dude. You're dirty. You feel a grime? Listen, if we're talking about those two,

we really are. Shut the fuck up. We really are talking about. They can't even talk. You can't say on a straight face. This is crazy. Shut your mouth. It's crazy.

But we're really talking about like mid here. And so. like if we're doing a deep dive on this mid right Harrison Barnes dive on this mid I think I think that Kyle Anderson and this really is just like a matter of perception and expectation but Kyle Anderson is going to do things where you're like oh like that's cool like that that's kind of interesting Harrison Barnes is Harrison Barnes is just going to give you like 12 13 points a game he's just like okay on defense like he's not he's nothing crazy but somehow some way the ball's going to find

Harrison Barnes with two and a half minutes left and you're down four and you need a three and he's going to hit the side of the backboard and you can be like why are we paying this guy $25 million like why is he here right now and what did this man do to you you're talking about hypothetical situations where he comes up the side of the backboard has he ever done that before okay not not the side not the side of the backboard but he's never done that but he missed I'm telling you in the playoffs in the playoffs against the Warriors he had a wide open three to win to win the game and You think him off your list because he missed a game winner. I'm telling you, those are the types of moments.

Those are the types of moments that come with the Harrison Barnes experience. And I just wouldn't want that on my team. I feel like I can find better people. I feel like I can find people who can do other things to where, like I don't need the skill set that Harrison Barnes provides. I can go find that in somebody else. But you can't find Slowbo. You can't find those. points in game.

He's one of a kind. He's one of a kind. You're showing your two colors. Nobody in the history of the NBA. This is colorism. Has his play? Stop that. Stop that.

Kyle Anderson is a one of a kind role player, and I think we should appreciate him as such. But for Harrison Barnes, it's like, he could be on the floor for 30 minutes, or he could play five minutes. I wouldn't know. He's just there for me. I just don't.

notice Harrison Barnes until he's messing up. What else you guys are the same about this five? I have Murray at 21. Yeah. So that's probably the biggest difference for me, not having Kiki Murray on my list. But aside of that, like our lists are insanely identical. I have Gordon Heybred at the same spot. I have Bruce Brown in the exact same spot.

That's insanely identical. Really it's not. But I had those two in the same spot. And I like where you rank those guys. Um, who's, Dylan, okay, Dylan Brooks is at an interesting spot.

I think that's pretty, that's fair. That's fair. I think I'd rather have Gordon here on my team than Dylan Brooks because of outside things and Dylan Brooks is like mentality. He has Patrick Beverly's, I don't even say Patrick Gregory syndrome. He has some type of delusion in his head to where,

he has some type of delusion in his head to where like he thinks he's like that. Let's put my water out. When he's far from like that. Syndrome is crazy. he said a medical term for patrick brink brain terminal patching brother's brain but he said that an elite defender

defense matters enough to put him up that high offense sucks but there's players that are really good at offense with suck ass on defense he said that he wanted to be he didn't want to be the fourth or fifth option of a super talented Memphis

Jersey's team nobody wants to be the fifth option nobody wants to be the fifth option I don't blame him reality man real bears but other than that like what are you talking about

I poke bears we're playing basketball Dylan please yeah get a grip yeah that's hilarious yeah okay so such a next vibe donovan

thank you thank you okay at 25 I have DeAndre Hunter 24 Trey Murphy 23 Herb Jones 22 Keegan Murray and then 21 Bruce Brown you have Herb Jones

high as hell I really do I do I would probably drop him now that now that I'm looking at it but I'm a stand on it I think Herb Jones I think Herb Jones

like although he can't shoot for nothing Herb Jones can play some defense and I value like I value his defense a lot I feel like he he's been snugged a couple times like for all for all defenses I think he's that caliber of a defender and that's fair

and when you're when you're like that and even though that he can't shoot. He's like if Dylan Brooks knew that he couldn't shoot and he's like, okay, I'm not going to take like these crazy shots. And that is much more manageable to like plug and play on the team. And I think that that self-awareness, that's what puts him high for me. That's what that's what I like about Herb Jones. Okay. That's fair. I like it. I think Tray Murphy's definitely better than Herb Jones. I think even if not just ceiling, we're talking about just now, but I think Trey Murphy's also like a underrated defender. He's the similar length, similar build. And he just can do

a lot more interesting things with the ball on his hands. He has a little more ability to attack the rim. He's obviously a better shooter. Everybody is. Yeah. And I just think he has value in offense and Herb Jones really doesn't. No, yeah, definitely. I 100% agree with that.

We can do that. He said flip him. We can do that. Well, yeah. I 110% agree with that. Trey-Trey-Marfries the type of dude to where you can trust him. What? I'm just out of flip him.

It's okay. Bro. And that one's okay because they're their teammates, so it's fine. That is true. Dude, I'm over here scratching the fuck out of my eye. The other day when I recorded a podcast, my eyes red, sneezing and all that. Someone said I need to get off the yayo. She was crazy, hell.

I've never heard that. I haven't heard that terminology in a long time. But anyways, back to the subject, yeah. Trey Murphy. I agree with you and your sentiment on that when it comes to comparing the two, Isaac. When I think of Trey Murphy, I think of this dude possibly being at times a secondary, but really a super comfortable treasurer, um, ball handler. That's just in his game.

Naturally, he's, he can, I can see him carving up a defense once in a while. It's not in his back just yet, 100%, 110% because he's still in the developmental phase. And also the Pelicans just have a backlog of talent. But, um, yeah, I think, I think, I think that list is, your list is pretty good. then I think Donovus, this is, yeah. It's all right. It's not bad. You flipped it, though.

It's solid. Time out. Do you have DeAndre Hunter at 21? So at 20, okay, so at 25, I have Gordon Hayward. 24. Oh, shit. I have boson at 24. That's a flaw.

23. Norm Powell. He lists that as a small Ford. I don't really like that. Norm Powell's a shooting guard. You always do this. We did Noem Powell last week. Was he not on the list?

No, Norm Fowles is shooting guard. He was under the flashing. I thought he was on the ESPN list. That's a mishap on my hand. It's fine. No one powers. Anyways. No one cares. 22, Bruce Brown, 21 DeAndre Hunter.

Wow. I think I have a problem. Yeah. You do. I think, no, I think you ranked the idea of DeAndre Hunter. And I think I ranked the reality of DeAndre Hunter. The reality is not that bad. I think you're more for

Oh shit 21 is kind of high I think that the idea Of the perfect version DeAndre Hunter Who's actually 3 and D has some secondary creation shops

Like I thought he'd be coming out of college That would be 21 But But that's Not The people that The audio Are gonna know

Why just laugh They shouldn't know They shouldn't know I like Boyon's placement I have Boyon a little higher. Yeah, I haven't said his name yet. Nice.

Bruce Brown's in a good spot. Yeah, Norm Powell was just a shooting guard. Like, you're obsessed with out of position players. Wait, can you explain the, the Boyon at 24? Because I'm with Isaac. He's a little bit higher on my list. I'm kind of, like, intrigued to know why you put him like this low. Well, I, when it comes to Boyon, I don't have any necessary gripes or argument against putting him that low. It's just like, if I'm a.

championship team. I'm not a hundred. This is like, this is the gray area for me. Like at the next list, I'm like the next tier. I'm like, okay, I'm 110% set. Like, I would rather have these players over X, Y, and Z. But this place for Boyon is like, it's very, I'm very flexible with it. So I don't have any necessary real argument against that, just like how I have an argument or even about DeAndi Hunter or anything like that. But at times, I think I would rather have Boyon over Warren Powell, Bruce Brown and Deandre Hunter be just because of his. scoring ability but you know with that said he's a zero on defense and he is rather one-dimensional you're right he's not giving you anything as a playmaker he's probably average at best as a defender so

i understand the logic of putting him down i just think that his offense and his level of outside shooting is so helpful for a team that he is more impactful as a 21 point per game score than like some other 21 point for game scores are wow why didn't you have that same exact energy for buddy healed because buddy healed is actually atrocious at the atrocious at defense and leon's fine he's big and do some things buddy healed is a fucking tire

just getting not fucking spun around wow now that that's a visual yeah that is a visual that is a visual but yeah there's my list um now that I think about I think I would put boz on

on 20, 21 and probably swap him and DeAndre Hunter. But other than that, I think I'm pretty solid on my list. And obviously, like, ignore no, pal, whatever cool, he's just there. I'll put, I'll put someone else there instead. So there's my list. Any other gripes? Gordon Hayward, good. We haven't said his word name at all.

Yeah, I mean, nothing to say about him. He's Gordon Hayward. He's a solid player. He's always hurt. Hard to rank him because he is always hurt. But when he plays, he's still good. I'm happy you said his name because that is someone's favorite player out there

My mind My next five At 20 I have Scotty Barnes At 19 I have Cam Johnson 18 Bojan Bogdanovich 17 Kyle Kuzma And 16 Michael Porter Jr. Okay

Any thoughts? Wow I literally forgot about Cam Johnson I love that place I love that place. Okay, so take off Norm Powell and put Cam Johnson. Where do you want to put Cam Johnson on your list? Yeah, put Cam Johnson there.

But can you actually send your list in? Yeah. Look at the screen share. Oh, shit. Okay, gotcha. And I see, I, while I was doing a lot of rearranging, I also took Cam Johnson off my list while I was doing this rearranging. But I had him, I originally had him around like,

I think I had him at, like, 23, and I was, like, mixing stuff around. And then he just got lost in the shuffle. But I like the pick, though. I think my next tier is fairly similar, but I like it, though. I don't know. This is one of the hardest tiers for me to rank. These guys are all in the next couple of names after that, super close together. I don't like how Scotty is lower than Cam and Boyon.

and when it comes to Michael Porter, Jr., I'm like, eh, I'm not really fighting, I'm not really going tooth and nailing that, but I don't know. I just don't, I think Scotty should be a little bit higher, for sure. Scotty should be higher if we're talking about, like, where he thought he'd be after the first year or where we think he'll be next year,

but he just didn't have a strong year. He wasn't effective as a finisher, it wasn't a shooter. His defense was actually, like, bad. Like, every Rockets fan was, like, weirdly annoyed by how bad his defense was. us. He was kind of lost at times compared to his rookie year. He had an off year as a defender. He'll bounce back. But if I'm just basing off last year, he wasn't particularly good at much besides being a good playmaker for position and just being the normal versatile self he is.

But I think Cam Johnson's perimeter shooting, it's similar to the thing with Boyon that he really enhances an offense. And I think he's underrated as a defender. He's pretty solid. It's good at using his size despite not being super athletic. So I think he's like Michael Porter Jr. without the often movement shooting and like quite as much versatility there as an offensive player but he's a solid defender with that being said i'd rather have boy on i mean cam over boy on but other than those two things or three things or whatever i think it was a solid i might i might rather have cam over boy on too no more i think i'm kind of yeah i'm kind of surprised that you uh put kuzma above or under um michael porter junior that was a debate for me

I think it came down to the fact that Michael Porter Jr. made some strides as a defender last year. We saw him be decent. He still has absolute fucking tunnel vision and couldn't pass... But he couldn't get an assist to save his life. But I think his defensive issues were kind of lessened. He's not as much of a liability anymore.

So I think when you're that lethal of a shooter and provide that much spacing to an offense while being a decent defender can rebound a little bit with your size, I think it's more valuable than Kuzma, who's good at everything, well-rounded, but not particularly great at anything doesn't have a high level impact skill set

okay yeah all right i'm not mad at that i'm cool i'm cool all right so here's here's my next i'll go into that so i have josh hart at 20 bojan and 19 scotty barns at 18 uh jada mcdaniels at 17 and then j will uh j dub at 16 um yeah i think i think that with josh is kind of the same thing that you know that we talked about last last week i think he's just like the ultimate role player and he just does everything well i agree with everything that isaic said i think that if especially if boy on was playing with a legitimate point guard he i think i think we would feel a little bit different about him and his his 20 points they don't feel as um like inflated as kelly ubra's but he was also but he was also on the

They're not like empty, but like he's on a piston seam with absolutely nothing around him. And so it's like, okay, he's going to be the one to get him. But if you go back to all his stuff, you know, his time in Utah, that's where I think you saw like really what Boyon can do. And if you get him in a competent situation, he'll be solid. And then. Yeah.

Boyan's nice. Yeah. And then Scotty, Scottie, Scotty, we're still trying to like figure out. I think everything that Isaac discussed. described about Scotty and the way people talk about him, he has that, he has the DeAndre Hunter syndrome where like, I think for a while, people are going to see, people are going to see like the rookie of the year and they're going to see the fact that he's six, nine, right, all these traits and they're going to expect, especially like if he doesn't make the leap this year,

they're going to expect some stuff from Scotty and look at him in a certain way where he's, he's cool, he's fine, he could do a couple things, but he's never like, unless obviously he makes the leap this year. But like right now he's not at, you know, that top 10 ceiling, you know, that top 10 ceiling that we thought he was going to be. Jada McDaniels, fantastic defender, so versatile, can guard, can guard everybody. And I just think that like him in, him in Minnesota being able to be like, just, you know, run around, do everything, guard everybody. That really helps them. And I, I just like his versus Hillary. I value that a lot. And then Jay And it's weird.

I think he was higher on my list for the shooting guards, but that's because that was like nobody in the shooting guards list. But I think that right here is really like around the tier that he should be in. Like middle. And we should say there's some names like J-dub who appear on both lists because for this list, we tried to make sure we didn't have any more position discrepancies and we're going by ESPN. So some guys should be counted as shooting guards last week that should have been small forwards. We just did him again to make sure these last three lists are as perfect as possible.

Yeah. I.E. Bruce Brown. Yep, exactly. Bruce Brown and RJ Barrett. I think you guys counted him in a shooting guards last week because you're a faded. I actually have Jaydenman Daniels, like a few spots higher. I think Jamie Daniels is very underrated. People don't realize how good he is, but like he made a legitimate offensive week last year. He thinks he averaged like 12, but like was a very effective shooter, can do things attacking the rim.

They just had a lot of other scores ahead of him, so he didn't show it. But he has that on top of being legitimately one of the best primitive defenders in the NBA, like probably top five. I have him higher and I have J-dub higher. but the placements aren't too bad. I'm guessing you have Cusma and Porter Jr. over them, which were debates I had. I ended up trending towards the younger guys, who I think are...

I had the bias to want to say Porter and Cusma were better because they're more proven, done it for a while. But I was like, J.W. is just better. Like, the defense is such a big difference there. I ended up going with him. The defense isn't the playing with him. I'm not mad at it whatsoever. All right.

So, for my list, I have... At 20, I have Harrison Barnes. At 19, I got Kelden Johnson. 18 MPJ, 17 coups, and at 16, Jaden McDaniels. This is where he makes... Keldon Johnson is so high. Harrison Barnes is so high. No, look at this dude right here.

Yeah, Kelden Johnson. Harrison Barnes is high, too. 21, okay, you at 21 through 19, you have the most mid-chreau have ever seen. Hunter Barnes, Kelden, mid. Listen, Kelden, I feel like, when it comes to my Kellynne Johnson placement, I wanted to go ahead and show him his respect, my respects for his performance over the past season. Now, yes, you could say, like, his numbers are kind of empty stats or whatever, but he did show improvement and regression on all that as a score. And I think he did get better overall. I think he did overall as a player.

He averaged more points, but he was so inefficient. Like, hey, go ahead. I mean, regards to the facts, I wanted to show him my respects for that. And I think that he's the type of player to where you shouldn't just shun him away completely when it comes to the San Antonio Spurs and their entire rebuild. I also do. Also, I didn't, I don't know why, but saying that he's a power for it or a small fort in my mind just doesn't sound right. But I had to throw him on there. And then as for what were other guys?

Harrison Barnes. one of the real values Let's talk about Kelvin Johnson Last year This man was probably the worst 22 point for a game score in the NBA He averaged 2.9 assists And two turnovers

That is a 1.5 to 1 Disaster turnover ratio Don't worry about that Don't worry about that Do it get him buckets He had like 32% from three Like a 52% True shooting percentage

He was not efficient at all Granted it wasn't entirely his fault Because he was asked to be like The Souter number one option He's not billed for that shit at all so I guess he's on my list still because I think if you give him a teen that makes sense and isn't asking him to do too much he'll be better but just off last year that man was ass where was he on your list uh I had him at 27 down below damn oh yeah you're right

27 tough yeah he just off last year I don't think he should be top 30 but I'm giving him benefit of the doubt that when he's putting a role that suits him better he'll be pretty good yeah exactly maybe that's me giving him a little a little bit too much of the benefit out because he's in a much better situation to where I think he's not going to be looked at as the first or second best player. He shouldn't be looked at that at all on the San Antonio's first team because of obviously victory and other progressions and the progression of other players on that team as well. So yeah, there's my list. And as for Harrison Barnes, something that's like an underrated value about him is that when it comes to

being the type of player to help to help your team mature a little bit more and set the bar of how things should be done. That's what he's good at and that's exactly how you should view him. He's not the guy.

He's not like a hyper. He's not out like a super unique player whatsoever. You can find 50 million Harrison Barnes throughout like basketball, you know? He's a reputable player. But he's just like a vet, he's consistent throughout the regular. season may not be as insistent as you would want him to be but in terms of just being a

great bet coming in when it needs to be done and also helping setting the bar standard while performing in the regular season he deserves a spot i agree i agree with that the only reason why i would still have him lower and i guess you know not even on my list but i think that that that skill set is very very particular to sacramento and like there's There's like a handful of teams where you can put them on and it's like, okay, he's going to be the vet that's going to teach everybody how to how to do things. And, you know, I'm going to tell the stories of like, okay, like this is how you work. This is how you move. If we're talking about we need to win a game tomorrow or we're trying to find a missing piece.

You know, if I had to win a game tomorrow, I would rather have Kyle Anderson on my team than Harris. Oh, my God. I'm being a hundred percent serious. But if we're talking about, like, are we going to make, you know, a move to bring somebody in here to put us over the hump, I don't see Harrison Barnes at the level to be where he's like just outside the upper third. That's the only reason why I just don't see him at like 20, but it's like, listen, if y'all, if I know what it is. Listen, if y'all like it, actually, no, I can't, I can't even say I love it. It's just like, it is what it is. We just, we just don't agree on Harrison Barnes.

He must have sold you on a lot of parley. dude that's the only way like I can see you doing it and Chris Anderson must have save your pockets because that's only that makes sense I never bet on Harrison Barnes I remember a couple parlayers you've been on Harrison mornings before

I know did I? My next five a lot of parlays at 15 I have J-Dubb 14 Jada McDaniels 13 Jeremy Grant 12 Franz Wagner

and 11 OG An Anobie. This was hard. This was a very difficult tier for me to rake. That's dope. Franz Wagner, man. OG is, he's not better than O'D. Franz Wagner's better than OG. There's no discussion for that, like, whatsoever.

Other than the defense, nice, and all that. Other than half the game that O.G.'s great at? Yeah. Yeah, but the other things that Franz Wagner does supersedes everything else. And it's not like he's a slouch on defense also, too. like there's a gap for sure but it's not like yo he's try young on d like he's not bad i think oj's solid oj's like scoring wise franz in the deeper back and do a little more creating off the dribble but you do a lot more oj oj's like one of the best three ind guys in the league

right now especially since mckell bridges kind of graduated from that conversation i think oh he would look a lot better if he wasn't on team with six guys starting that are all his size and his position i think you put ogy another team that can really use his skill set more singularly than the Raptors can, I think he would surprise us. And I also just think he's that level of defender. He's really, really good. Surprised us in what way or form? Let me ask that question. He'd be better. He'd be better if his team wasn't starting four power forwards. I think I think he's better. I put him on the grizzlies. He's going to impress. Toronto really thought that they were doing something. They're like, we're going to change basketball.

And it's just like, yeah, you actually have the worst offense in the league now. And you guys are actually unwatchel. And they stand 10 toes to it. It's ridiculous, man. I've never seen somebody be so proud to be so wrong, bro. You know it's crazy? It's going to be worse now. They replaced Fred with Dennis Schroeder. It's all going to look worse. Oh, man. Yeah, man. I have, I had Jada McDaniels and J-dub higher than Cusman Porter, which is, I think, something you guys flipped.

And, yeah, I just think J-dub is already a good defender. One of the best at his position at defensive playmaking, like, his hands are insane. I'm sure he still has a ways to go in terms of, you know, adding strength making the right rotations doing all the stuff you need to be a truly elite defender like an OG or whatever but his instincts are already incredible like if you watch his that just watch his defensive highlights and you'll be like this guy's going to be one the best defenders in the NBA in a couple years it's crazy like you see the signs there already and the Jamie Daniels I think is somebody who isn't quite as offensively talented as Jdub

but has already made that leap to being one of those top tier defenders that jdub could be so I think they're very similar in that way and that going forward they can continue to be neck and neck as they develop together. Yeah. Jeremy Grant's, I struggle to rank him compared to those two. I'd rather have those two going forward. But I think it's hard to rank Jeremy Grant because we see him now as a guy who's forced himself to be out of a role that he isn't built for it because like Dylan

Brooks, he wants to be the guy. And that kind of like changes the way we view him. But before that transformation, he was a great defender, really good shooter, has that crazy length of versatility. I think he still has those things. We just don't think about it as much. because he's kind of put himself in a different conversation. But I think he brings similar things to J.D.

McDaniels while having a little bit higher of an offensive ceiling at this point. He put himself in a conversation of not being relevant in whatsoever. Like, the last time he played a meaningful game was back when he was on the Denver Nuggets, bro. That was years ago. That was the last time he made the playoffs. That's ridiculous.

He was getting buckets on the pistons. Now he's getting lottery teams with the Blazers. Like, he was in hell. He just wanted to upgrade his quality of life. He wanted to get buckets and get a bag. he got both so like shot up listen shout to jeremy grant he's doing something right best small forward in the league 42nd best player in the league gross right donovan send us your next life all right let's get into it all right so at 15 i got coos 14 i got mpj 13 i got franz 12

i have o g and then 11 i have jeremy grant um grant's over ogy and fronds that's interesting i really listen this this also was really really hard for me because i like franz i like franz i like franz a lot. I just think that the defense, I think that the defense with OG puts him over, puts him over that. And then for Jeremy Grant, I think the fact that we've been able to see him kind on two separate teams really elevate his game, expand his offensive game, I value that a lot from him. I think that that's very, like, cool to see from him. And so, like, while his defensive game, it's probably still, like, a little bit overrated. Like, I don't think he's not the same defender that he was back in Denver but he's still like obviously not a net negative and so like

his his offensive game and the way that that has expanded really means a lot to me so that's why i put him at 11 you can ask me this 20 games into next season and i'll probably put franz above both of them like i think franz franz just does so much offensively and i feel sure i feel the most comfortable with Franz running my offense or running my team than I do with these other two and so so yeah by the time December rolls around Franz is probably going to be 11

maybe even pushing top 10 oh for sure he's gonna make a big leap in year three and he's gonna be I think he's gonna be a star one day like not like superstar but like low level star like he'll be like better at his position than like subonis is at his type shit yeah he'll be

like he'll be right on tier in terms of the same level player as like probably Chris Milton maybe like a step above him that's how I was thinking I was thinking Brandon Ingram same type of tier makes sense yeah relatively not not that much big of a difference but

your list is cool I still think I have friends I have friends higher um I think it's a combination of a lot of things and I just think in general when you have playmaking you're grand driveling you're a great driver you're a great shooter

you're not asked at defense actually like A solid defender. I think those types of players, I feel more comfortable with those types of players running my offense and being a part of my team long term. And that's like my biggest gripe against with him against like, oh, Gianniobie. And I'm not really going to throw him in that same conversation with Grant because I can't really compare the two. One's like 29 or whatever years old. And other ones coming going into his third year or whatever. But just in general, like when it comes to just a type of archetype of player that I tend to lean to.

towards that makes that's why i have i go for franz way more than oh g and yeah send your next five let's take a look at your next five yeah so exactly how you have franz that's crazy because he's not even in a part of my next five is franz oh he has devil vassel in here scottia now look bro you are look devon vassel is a shooting guard no he's not he's a small ford we did this last week Devon Vissell is a shooting guard You do? Was he a part of your shooting guards list last week?

Yeah He was also a part of yours Was he? Wow, I'm having a Kendrick Perkins Trenc, Kenjik Perkins moment right now That is so crazy Go ahead and read your list off That is so crazy

Well, if we're, anyways, whatever So if you are between The heights of 6-3 and 6-9 You are shooting guards slash small forward You are liable to be on any list. Just know that right now. My propaganda is being pushed, and my list shows for it. Anyways, J-dub, I 110% agree with you guys.

Like, he is exactly what a lot of teams tend to look for, should look for. He's an absolute hit. OK, she wouldn't be. They'd be good still, but I don't think they would be as dynamic without someone like J-dub. if you feel like he fills a lot of gaps and a lot of holes across um across okayc's team and then obviously dev himself whatever cool we understand what type of level player he is regardless of position like it's whatever Andrew Wiggins is yeah is Andrew Wiggins a part of you guys list yeah at all yes yeah he's higher than 13 okay cool well I put him at 13 just based off

for like what the type of season that I saw him have. I'm not really like staying 10 miles down. Yeah, exactly. You know? Yeah, exactly. But if I'm thinking about Andrew Wiggins, yes, of course. But if I'm thinking of the type of player that Andrew Wiggins is at peak of fantasy of basketball, you can definitely sway me that like, you know, he should be in the top 10 list.

And that's perfectly fair. O. Jen and Obie, I don't really need to say too much. I think you had him in the same range as Donovan, I mean, as, as, yeah, I think I had him on the same range as you guys. And then Scotty Barnes, maybe it's me projecting. Maybe it's me projecting, maybe it's me projecting, maybe it's me seeing the situation that he's in and telling myself, this is not really optimal for him. But if he was in an optimal situation, similar to how you feel about old Yaninobe,

whatever. He'll be a lot better. Now, there are a lot of misconceptions about his game. No, I didn't. There's no world where Scott he was better than OG last year. That's crazy. He was not a better player than OG last year. That is fair to say. I'm not dying like I was. That's fair to say. That's fair to say. That's fair to say. But this is more so me, obviously, projecting. There's my list. Aside of Vassel and Scotty or whatever, is there any, like, red flags? I think Red flags. No, there's no red flags.

I think Wiggins at 13. Yellow, yellow flag, like, orange. Yeah. I think he should be top. Yeah, the fact of Scotty is two spots about Wiggins is a fucking rainbow flag. It's crazy. Whoa. Okay.

Cut that. Yeah. I love it Yeah It's all the colors One night back, one night back Yeah Whoa

We'll give you a second chance Yeah It's a bright red flag There you go Yeah Yeah Let's go ahead and do my next five At ten I have Andrew Wiggins

At nine I have Chris Middleton This sort of a star start At eight I have Brandon Ingram Seven I have McCall Bridges And six to Marta Rosen How we feel feeling. Bridges versus Ingram

is a hard one. I have the same I have the same five just in different order. Let's go into your next five before we even talk about them. Let's do all of our fives next and then we'll talk about them all at once. Ah man, this is tough.

Yeah. Did you fuck up? No, this is not tough. I mean like when it comes to debating certain players. No, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. yes yes here's my five so i have yeah so i have middleton at ten wiggins at nine de rosen at eight b i at seven and then bridges at six whew i think bridges is like that i'm completely i have so much to say about this five i am i am i am completely bought in to everything mcale bridges was

showing in i i think 27 games in brooklyn yeah i was i'm completely bought it okay let's do let's do mo's next five and then we'll talk about them all good grief all all right i don't know fronson damar nine mccal bridges eight chris middleton seven and brandon ingham six we're all over the place all three of us are so different yeah the biggest difference is the McCall Bridges thing for me between you guys from what I see off right but let's talk me yeah okay you you have them you're having the lowest but you also have Chris Middleton the highest though I yeah I won't I won't lie I had to back up off of off like I had to back off the Chris Militon hype train just the amount of injuries that he's had over the last two years and

his inability to really like get back to where he was in 2021 that's why I had to drop him to 10 I can see him at 9 But it's just The Like he's so he's so important to what Milwaukee does And he just wasn't able to get back to To just like do the things that they needed him to do His scoring is like inconsistent

His defense isn't all the way there again Yeah he was not good last year He was very shell of himself Yeah I give him a little bit of the doubt Just because the people behind him Ogee and Wiggins Aren't like

Incredible If there was somebody a little bit stronger there I would have had them leapfrog Middleton put him back to 10 maybe even 11 as well it was more so there's just nobody there that earned to be above him but I agree he's definitely like if there's another year looking like

last year we're going to start asking some serious questions about this team's ceiling and his career going forward because he was not looking at the star he should be I'm more interested in is demar de rosen you guys dropped him a good amount I feel like he's still demar de rosen the team around just sucks they have Nikola Vucevich

Levine no Lanzo the team team's ass but he's still demar even though we still demar I would very much rather have be I on my team and I'd rather have Macau I'd rather have probably Chris middow how do you say his name how do you say is it Macau I have no clue it's not Michael oh it's definitely not Michael yeah yeah I know that I thought you're going to say that so I was like okay Michael bitches I think it's McKale I'm not really sure I I say it's different every time. Bridges.

I think I would definitely rather have DeMarre than Ingram. I think Ingram is a little bit overrated. Whoa. Wow. Ingram is like, he looks the part more than he is the part where he looks like he's like a true bread score. I'm like a true red star, but like he has a good amount of flaws himself. I don't, what does he do better, more valuable than DeMarter Rosen?

Playmaking and shoot threes. They both am. I don't think he's a better playmaker than DeMarter Rosen. I think he's a better playmaker than DeMarra's Rosen. DeMar is a pretty good playmaker. yeah he's good but like Ingram's not out here

slinging dimes I mean Ingram's a solid There neither of them are slinging dimes necessarily This is a midoff That we're talking about right now A pro for Ingram

Yeah Like Ingram's not the defender He should be with his physical tools either I just feel like he's a similar mold But just like doesn't have The same ceiling as a score Like

I just feel like DeMarter Rose and slightly edges of the mountain Most important ways But the three point shooting Is the thing So I get that Yeah exactly Yeah I think

I think with With Damar, the thing for me is he had that really great season, not last year, but the year before. And it looked like, oh, wow, like he's, like, that was the best season, at least offensively, that was the best season of his career. And so now he's back to, now he's back to just like regular Demar DeRosen. And on a team with, like you said, with Vooch, with Lonzo out, with Zach Levine, in and out the lineup, I expected a little bit more offense from him in terms of just like getting buckets. And his average dropped like four points a game. And it's like I wanted a little bit more. The playmaking was there.

We've seen a couple steps from him trying to take more threes, trying to be, you know, more willing to do that. So I appreciate that from him. But I think for for B.I, I don't, I don't know. I like B.I's game. I think the fact that he does take more threes, that really is a big factor. whenever I'm talking about which one would I want Because they are so similar

And they are just like right there in the same tier Yeah, it's not crazy The only thing that changed with Demar is he took less shots His efficiency is exactly the same It's like a thing with Beal where it's like Whoa, he must be a way worse scoring now He's washed because he's averaging three less points But it's because he chose to take less shots

Probably to get Zach Levine more into things Because he had an off year the year before last And now this year he came back He took a little more shots per game Probably trying to get Vooz back into it Because they saw that Damar taking 30 shots a game, whatever it was, not literally, wasn't going to be a route to success for them. So I don't hold it against them that they chose to go a different direction as a team.

I think he's still just as good. You got to get them. Listen, you got to look around and be like, hey, I'm playing with Ayu Dissou and Adre German. Like, yeah, I'm taking these shots. You know what I'm saying? Both you guys have, both of you guys have bridges above B.I. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? No, like, what is up with that?

Defense. Defense is the big reason? Yeah, I'm with Donovan on that. I truly believe that 27 game sample as you saw is going to be probably not exactly what he's going forward because he was averaging 28 points per game with still being a really good defender. He's probably not going to do that for a whole year, but like 24 points for game being, not a playmaker though, but also a really good defender.

I think that's totally possible, which puts him about the same level of score a little bit better than Ingram while being a miles better defender to me if you believe that version of Bridges is going to be who is going forward I think it's a no-brainer and I and I 100% do I think I think that and also with with McHale McHale once we like when we talk about this list he is the most durable player on this list. That sure yeah none he plays and the NBA game he played 83 games last year because of the trade like he's playing he's playing overtime Mikhail Bridges is going to be there every single single night and B.I. B.I. is going to miss games. Damar's going to miss games. When you look at the

lineup for the night, McHale Bridges is going to be there and the fact that he can be, you know, that two-way, that two-way three. And just like, the leaf that he took, and we were already seeing it before the trade to Brooklyn, but the way that he, like, started navigating pick and roll, just feeling much more comfortable with the ball in his hands. And then for him to instantly be like, oh, wait, it's just me. I got it. Like, I can score 27 a night. that's that's crazy to me and listen he didn't have the the best playoff series the nets the net as a whole like we we knew what what they were going to be but i think that i think that brooklyn one i don't think that they're going to be super competitive so i think at least numbers

wise mckell's probably going to be around 25 like i i think i think 24 25 is a very reasonable expectation from him and do like do i think do i think that he is going to be you know, D. P. O.Y. caliber defense. No, because that would make him prime Kauai Leonard. But like, literally, but he definitely, I would, I, because of the, the leap that he took, yeah, I want him over to Marta Rosen. I want him over Brandon Negro. Like, he can just do so much more now. And I, I trust him. Yeah, that's fair. I just need to see it for a full season sample size. Like, it's not like I have him, like, outside of my top 10 or anything like that. It's just like, you know, he's there. there's a very clear pathway to him being one of the best at his position point blank period but i just

wanted to see it throughout a full sample size and i don't want to i didn't i don't want to say i didn't feel comfortable with it because i'm not going i'm not going to war for brandy ingram ever but i will say like when it comes to just showing the level of consistency of scoring the playmaking and just being a consistent force on offense ever since he got the got handed those keys I need to see a little bit more from Macau Bridges I do not I would tell you this

this was my hardest decision in terms of where to put McHale because I wanted to put him top five I literally I wanted to I wanted to do it so hard relax I wanted to I wanted to give him that respect because I genuinely believe

that everything You're telling me you debated putting on both Paul George No okay No That's not what are you talking about There's not why I debated

Oh Someone else Did you debate him with Jimmy Butler? No Oh my God Okay Let's just wait for it Drop the list

Drop my next five Drop mine first At five I have Paul George At four I have Jimmy Butler Three Kauai Leonard Two Jason Tatum One Lebron James

You just right off my list still you bastard anyways oh wow that's crazy bar for bar that's crazy let's see yours donovan at five i have kawai leonard at four i have paul george three i have jimmy butler two i have lebron and one i have jason tatum i think that for kawai and paul george they they the fact that they cannot play bothers me right like i am i the only one who's frustrated that these guys can't play that they're going to miss half the season every single year and for for kawai the reason why i put kawai over over mikhail is just the fact that like when he's out there he is fantastic but his knees are going to fall off the bone every single year and it doesn't matter

it doesn't matter if you rest him for all he could not play from october to april and in game one of the of the first round his knee's going to blow out it's he's just he's not going to be there and so i just his his durability is so bad and the load management is so frustrating and it's just it hinders him and paul george hinders so much of what the clivers can do and hinder so much of how much chemistry that they can build i can't have them top three when they're just not reliable they just aren't on the floor and so i'll put paul george there because he's slightly more available than than kawai but they they they frustrate me so much and so I'm not giving them the top three at all

I think that's dude you're outlining the exact difference here you're picking off frustration and I don't get as worked up about that because I don't care I don't care I don't care wow I say that because it's just a different discussion I'm not trying to rank like who going off of that is going too hard off of results

which sounds crazy because you you play the game for results but I think process matters more there's no process with them though they don't they don't play enough for they don't play enough for a process to be rankings like it's easy to be like oh he was hurt so he's worse but like injuries are such a part of the game and so much randomness a lot of the times like kawai the gender of knee issues so he's always hurt so I get it but a lot of times like a lot of stars get hurt sometimes a few years in a row you get unlucky it happens I'm not trying to rank who's the most available I'm trying to rank who's the best players so to a certain extent

I detach from that because it's almost like picking somebody to be number one just because they won the championship. Like you're just picking the guy who had the results. It's easy to or just like it's almost like you're ranking off points for game. Like yeah, we can all read who scored the most points

for game and rank them. But I don't think it's valuable at all to strictly just go off of what happened when you can apply some context into that. And it's just not what I'm not trying to rank the most available. They don't have for one. I think for me like the one of the differences

is like the, the durability is the tiebreaker in this in this sense that's fine it's the tiebreaker from from six to four and also again they don't have a process they don't have results they don't have anything to where we can look at them and actually have a legitimate sample size because they're playing two weeks on two weeks off they they don't they don't play in the playoffs and again because they don't play that entire team that entire franchise is held hostage they don't know what to do they can't they don't have a plan forward and it's because of them right i'm not and i'm not saying like that they active nobody actively tries to get hurt but it's their fault that the clippers are in the

situation that they are because they can't play oh lucky shit happens like i don't know you're right like clearly why has an issue it's degenerative issue in his knees we know he has injury problems so i get it but like a lot of these players have injuries like just been times where jimmy missed a lot of games he just got lucky that he had a healthy playoff run until he didn't like it's like and then there's so many small things can swing these things either way that I'm not gonna if it's a tiebreaker it's fine I get it I'm not gonna be mad at picking Jimmy Butler over them Jimmy Butler just had some incredible shit happen so this I'm not gonna die on this hill with them but I just mean in general we're talking about injuries we see on different list sometimes where players like a kawai like

Anthony Davis like whoever you choose to pick get dinged a lot for being hurt and I just feel like we pick and choose who we hold these standards to based off of which one's more annoying not necessarily which one's like empirically more valuable you know what I mean I think a great but in this sense I get it because it's just fine even with even with AD like the one of the main oh my god what no hold on I'm I'm not even about to bash him one of the main reasons why I like I why I didn't believe in the Lakers going into the playoffs was because he hadn't shown for a while that he could stay healthy and then he did and so it's like okay like and you were saying all year he's just had some unlucky stuff like it it's like

that sometimes okay fine and listen we'll see you the next year if that was truly the thing paul george has played for he played 48 games 54 games 31 games and then 56 games he for nearly half a decade has not been has not been reliable so i agree so it's not it's not unlucky this is who he is at this point okay well part of that was on purpose they're doing a load match and thing to be available to the playoffs and let me saw this year he was available in the It worked. He was available. It was Kauai that wasn't. And I agree for a team building perspective when you're dealing with two of them there like that. No, Paul wasn't available. Paul played in the playoffs. What do you mean? Paul, Paul was not available. Kauai's only going to hurt. Paul George is there,

wasn't he? No, Paul George missed the first round. Yeah, he was hurt. Am I sure? Yeah, you're tripping balls. They both weren't there because Russ was out there carrying the team. They both went there. You're right. You're right. Yeah, yeah. It's tough when you get two of them. It's hard, but You're right. So again, I'm not dying over this. Jimmy Butler over them is totally fair. It's Jimmy Butler. So that's why I'm not like going crazy. But like, specifically, I'm really the one I have an issue with is Kauai versus PG. Kauai is just better. Like they're both hurt. Kauai's more hurt. So you have them lower at your tiebreaker like you said. Sure. I just think that we're trying to gauge who's the best player whenever they're available when they're, you know, gauge them as a player. I don't necessarily help as part of it. You're right. Like that's why Kauai is behind Jason Tatum for me. Because, you know, when they're at, if everybody's healthy, 100% of the time, of course, Kauai's a better player, but he's not healthy. So I think it just has to do with how much we're weighing it. That it's a bigger deal for you and just for me because I give more benefit of the doubt.

But again, I'm not, Jimmy Butler going over them is fine. I mean, yeah, if somebody's falling on your ankle, that's fine. But when your knee just can't stay together, no matter how many braces you put on it, that's just who you are. No, I agree. Yeah, for sure. Kauai is like, it's a degenerative issue that's going to be a problem forever, so I totally understand. Yeah, for sure. When it comes to your list, Donovan, your reasoning behind that, I understand, and I agree with you to a certain extent. Things just change, expectations change. And, like, this conversation changes when you're involving health rankings and all that.

Like, when it comes to having, for example, Chris Middleton on our list and stuff like that, we, or at least I had them in different places compared to you guys because of health reasons, you know? And when you're talking about Kauai Leonard specifically, like the conversation is different, even though like similar sentimentifies or whatever, you know, I think that just overall expectation consistency and all that is just where we see the big differences. And I'm not mad at it. I can understand it. My thing is when Kauai Leonard is there, like I know exactly what he is and what he's going. going to do and there hasn't been a second where he hasn't proven that whatsoever and you can say similar things about paul george as well but overall i feel pretty comfortable and confident with like yeah like if he's he's not on the court a lot because of a bunch of misfortune and stuff like that

but when he is on the court he's that dude yeah yeah i just think in general like this isn't the right conversation to make the point i'm making because like i said it's very understandable for this list to put Jimmy there above PG and Kauai because of injury issues as a tiebreaker it's fine I just think in general over the last it really is because of Anthony Davis and the fact he's a Laker and it's a big part of narratives that the NBA world has got become extremely critical of guys that get injured in a way that I think is like bad for how we talk about the game like not necessarily you doing Rana Donovan but we all like become victim of this way these narratives work where we act like it's like a fault in these players like they did

something wrong and we're just so extremely just negative about guys that get hurt a lot when really it is misfortune it's a part of the game it really becomes like with anthony davis in the last four years he's at two healthy years two not healthy years all that comes down to is did somebody fall in his knee awkwardly or not like there's so much variance in this type of stuff and we treat it like it's not variance you know what i mean we act like it's something that's part it's we act like it's equal to what they do on the court in terms of their skills when really it's just bad luck that's of risk

at every single corner for every player like if Katie was on this list we'd have him high he's also been hurt in very detrimental times for the last five years you know what I mean

like we pick and choose how we apply these things and I think it's just a weird thing that's become more prevalent over the last like three or four years I mean listen

Katie would be sliding on my list he would be sliding because he can't play he can't play he can't play yeah listen if you're

if you're that's a part of your criteria that's fine like availability is important just not necessarily for the way I'm thinking about this list but I understand

in terms of value yeah exactly and one thing that i like to emphasize too is like when it comes just the game of basketball in quite literally every aspect luck is a major factor and it's important like you know like we had we're going to look back at like someone like cp3's career you know he had quite possibly like one of the worst luck we've ever seen from a point guard of his calvin quite literally every year and because of that yeah and because of that like no one's ever going to see his ranking is not in my mind where his game speaks to you know and yeah i get that that's just

part of luck luck is a part of the game you have to have luck in order to be where you have to have luck in order to be in the upper echelon of the NBA overall you know so i'm not mad at all i can understand it's i don't have the same values necessarily as you donovan but you have very valid points and you know like yeah for this argument it makes total sense it's just like Like, like I said, it's so lucky. Like, the difference between this year for the Lakers and 2021 was that somebody fell in 80's knee at the end of the regular season. He missed the playoffs, and this year he didn't. Like, it's shit like that can swing narratives so hard.

It's always tricky when we're discussing injuries. But with that being said, that is not the case of Kauai and BG. They're detrimentally hurt all the time, so I totally understand. But, like, see, I understand that as far as putting Jimmy Butler above them. But if you, you didn't do this, but if you were to put bridges over Kauai, then I would be like come fucking on like let's give us a credit for what he does when he's on the court but I can't be bad at Jimmy Butler yeah what I we are ignoring the biggest elephant in the room right now is that Donovan has Jason Tatum at number one and we both have LeBron

it's for the same reason it's probably for the same reason health yeah let us know why you have Tatum number one right now I think Tatum is a better score than than LeBron okay I that's not crazy to say I think I think that he's there and he's he's there and he's He's made the jump. I think for him, one of the things that, like, we wanted to see him do, and he was doing it a lot early in the season, and then as the season, like, went on and kind of, like, you know, went in and out. But Tatum getting to the free throw line consistently was a big part of why he started averaging

30 points a game this year. And so I think him being able to put that pressure on the rim really has helped his offensive game, take, you know, take another step. So I think I think he's a better score than Brown right now. there's also a guy I think I think defensively very comparable I think LeBron

there was a stretch where like LeBron wasn't great defensively but like he's a better defender but like he's back so I like does that and then also at the same time like Moe said like yeah it's kind of

it's kind of a tiebreaker but he just plays more he's just like he played 20 games more and LeBron is at a point where I don't and it was really shown in the playoffs and I've said this before but LeBron is going to give you what he has and sometimes sometimes that means hey I'm going to turn up in the second half but like clockwork I know hey if LeBron's getting 30 in the first half go ahead right there's the shit I hate go go ahead right right that right that right that nine in the second right that nine points in the

second half and he's not going to he's not going to be there because he just can't do it and it's like that's i hate that we're talking this is all based on the recent playoffs and this is no it's based on the whole year it's based on the whole year and even that's just not true for the whole year that's not true at all for the regular season pre-injury and we're treating this it's going back to what i said about we just go off for results and not using context when we talk about this he was not healthy he was dealing with the foot injury and we talk about this like all things were equal and he was just washed old man he was not

healthy by any means you watch early season LeBron before he got hurt just as good as he's been for the last three years he was incredible you could say he gets hurt more often now sure but it's not always stuff that he has to play through and is even in this case that he does get injured a lot more we can't judge him on the court

when he's playing through something that materially changes who he'll be next year I was listen the the same amount of games that Kauai like LeBron played three more games than Paul He played three more games than Kauai Leonard. And I'm looking at them. And to me, like, that standard of you not playing, that applies to LeBron, the last four years, right?

He played 67 games, 45, 56, 55. He's not on the floor consistently enough for me to look at Jason Tatum, who played 74 last year and 76 the year before that. And to look at him and be like, okay, you're actually out on the floor every night. And you're averaging 30 and you're a better defender. Like you are the better player right now That's how I get it I get the injury thing I just mean whenever we're talking about

Like I know he can't do it for two halves in a row He's gonna burn out in the game That's strictly based off the most recent playoffs Where he is a materially different player And he's going to be going forward When he's actually healthy And sure he'll get hurt a lot and miss games Fair

He won't always be playing through a foot injury That defines that playoff run And makes him a different player than he was before that And he will be after that I was seeing it in the regular season too He wasn't the same though he was averaging 30 and then he averaged 24 in the playoffs like he was very different like that was not a thing in the regular season at all like he was the numbers buried out in the most

simple sense he was averaging 30 points before he got hurt like he was just as good as anybody else in the league and then what happened I think I hurt which I said is a very valid point which is now a consistent part of his game that you have to you have to you have to bake into every single year now and it yeah missing games is a thing missing games will be a part of him but playing with the foot injury that changes what he is when he's on the court is a different thing. That's where making those assumptions is, I think, just not indicative of who he is as a player going forward.

Just because he's playing, just because he's playing through a foot injury, right? Like, we both agree, can we both agree on this? If he's playing through something, then he's still hurt, correct? If he's playing through something, then he's hurt? Yes. Yes.

Okay. LeBron gets hurt now. Like, that's just, that's just, I agree. And so that's all, that's all I'm saying and so like whether listen if he misses the game obviously that's worse you would rather have lebron at 50% on the floor than lebron than no lebron at all and i i'm completely like i understand that but the fact that he's just he does not get a pass just because he's on the floor

like i'm not i'm not going to say like oh well you were hurt so it's okay that it's okay that you're like at 50% you are you are hurt and you can't do the things that you want to do and so there's other people who are more healthy who are just as talented who are here right now and that's jason tatum and jason tatum is the best small forward in the league for those reasons no yeah i get that that's fair i'm just saying that if you're picking him for help like because he's available more often that's fine i don't have a problem with that the only problem is when you say things like i know he can't be good for two halves in a row because he'll burn out because he's old that specific just focus on that assessment that is purely off the last playoffs where

didn't have the energy level because he was playing through the injury and had to muster everything out of him. That type of stuff won't be a thing when he's healthy. You say that he won't always be healthy. Sure, he'll miss games like you're saying. It's just when we talk about best case scenario,

you treat it like that is what he's going to be when he's actually healthy, and that's just not the case. Like those are two different things, you know what I mean? And I'm saying that if the constant state for LeBron is that he's always hurt now, like then that's just what he is at this point.

I don't even literally just trying to figure out how to say things in the most hurt. full way possible without it without a necessary aligning with 110% his overall argument. I definitely understand you. I think it's a re-saying, like, or mention how he's going to give you

31 half and 9 the other half. There's context in between those things and you can't just act like, you know what I'm saying? That shit didn't happen. But I mean, I can understand you and I just think the way you're going about it is crazy but overall, like, it's fine.

Yeah. I think it's very, I think picking Tatum is totally reasonable. I just think there's better reasons than LeBron got hurt this last playoffs. The better answer is he's a just as good score and a better defender, better two-way player at this point of his career, and that you think that matters more than LeBron's better passing, especially when you account for the injuries. That's fine.

Which I do. That's part of the package. Yeah, yeah, that's fine. It's totally valid. But if we're talking about LeBron James. Hey, you got to throw an head in there. Yes, I'm saying. people are just so reactionary to the most recent

playoff run when we talk about like every player ever it's always like what did you do this is the most recent playoffs that's how I'm going to rank you and I hate that shit like a lot of people would have LeBrona like five or something on this list because what happened in the playoffs he averaged 23 clearly he's much worse than he was before and it's never that simple yeah

much of context would be getting left behind he's old I don't like this girl is what he is and he made it just as far as Jason Tate him did nice and healthy yeah listen listen if you want to tell me that listen taitam doesn't have that dog in him so he so he can't be number one i'm cool like i get that right i understand that's a part of the game and i that's a willing dog is a part of the game listen that's a willing that's a willing

that's a willing that's why jimmy buller's here at three jimmy buller be missing games too but for two months he's like nah i'm gonna get it done and so now he's up to three like his dog just overcomes a lot of a lot of stuff his dog overcomes a lot of stuff bro yeah it's crazy But that's the point, right? We don't shit on Jimmy Butler from missing games, but he does. And why, you know what he turned into Michael Jordan? Because he turns into Michael Jordan when the playoffs coming. It was like, oh, okay.

Like, you know what he derailed it? And what DeRow does run this year? He got fucking hurt. And he wasn't the same for the last two rounds. It happens. Yeah, exactly. Also, you could also go ahead and argue all the only reason why the Celtics didn't make the most impossible comeback in NBA history because Jason's hit him got hurt during the game seven.

A lot of people forget about that, had a fucked up ankle, you know? so it's like oh yeah exactly now that was crazy they first off they should never been in that position to listen there's reason i'm not saying that it's crazy to put lebrun there's reasons why tatem shouldn't be number one i'm i'm okay but i clearly understand that i just i just think that like as as as we stand right now and as we stand moving forward tatum is at a point in his career where like you said he's a better score than than lebron his defense is better and he's more available and those three things combined mean more to me than what lebron is offering right now yeah that's fair makes sense i think if it came down to it in a playoff series all things been

equal i'd rather pick lebron on my team but it's it's so close at this point it's close for the first time that i can't be mad at picking tatum but i'm going to give the edge to brawn just because you know all the things i come with being lebron being the best playmaker on the court at all times still being a great score when he's healthy can turn it on on defense and lockup use his size effectively i the only reason i think it's a conversation is like you said because the injuries but i think when all things are equal i'm still picking lebron in most tangible ways but i get it not a bad yeah not a bad way about going to going against it donovan i love the hayden argument it's always needed it's not even hate it i'm a it is damn it stop

lying you know you're lying is that how is it How is it hating? How is it hating? Did I say anything that was like literally untrue? No, that's not. Yes, yes, you did. Well, I think he can all do it for one half. That's a little bit of hating.

That's a little, that's a little, that's a little, that was hate. No. Is that talking about it's a little ridiculous? I disagree. That's an example of one game in particular. The last game he played, that's the only time that's ever happened. No, that's not true. That's not true.

My back, the last four games he played. The 30, listen, the 30, the 30, the 30, the 30, and nine yes but the but the fact that like i it was kind of like tracking anthony davis's points for the first two for the first two rounds we're like oh it's like listen he scored 30 i know he's giving me 15 the next the next the next yeah uh i get it either way like most people if you pulled it right now lebron would win because he's lebron but a lot of people would pick jason tatum like jason tatum is at the point where you can't be mad at him being number one like he's that good yeah like you said just no dog so i don't want to do negative dog that's

you all hear that i think so what is it what is it i hear quasimoto with the crayon eater surrounding him climbing up the tower ringing the bell from the rooftop it's ticot time let's get into it oh shit you know that thirsty french shit oh shit trying to drill into our doors Lake Airhorn was that. As always, we're going to start with the draft. This time we're going to do a draft of players who never won MVP. We can be current players, retired players. Only thing that matters is they don't have an MVP under their belt.

I have to bounce back. I have to bounce back. The last couple drafts, I'm not going to lie, I've been selling. Yeah, you picked Bam out of bio in the hottest draft. That was wild. Listen, I've talked with my coaching staff. We've talked. I think I'm prepared for today's draft.

Let's get into it. I think it's Moa's first pick, Donovan's a second pick. I have third pick. So let's draft NBA players. Let's draft NBA lineups with only players who never won an MVP. Oops, number one. This is going to be tough. Number one.

I hate that I'm doing this, but give me Luca Donchage. He's not a one one, but give me Luca. Damn, one, one, Luca Donchage? All right. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Listen, give me Dwayne Wade.

Oh, okay. Wait. Did he wait? Did he wait? We're not counting finals MVP? Obviously not. That's so lame, bro. Come on now.

You didn't we weren't counting finals. Come on now. Get the fuck out of here. Are we counting Eastern Conference and Western Conference? All-Star MVP? All-Star VPs? Be fucking real. Rising Stars games, MVPs? Because I'm getting Dio.

I'm dead. Dad, you got Wade. That's tough. Okay. So first pick, give me Kauai Leonard. This is the easy one. Okay. Next one

This one's a little tough I'm trying to think of position value here Next pick, give me Dwight Howard Okay, okay, that's good I want to fill out my back court Give me Chris Paul Damn Chris Paul and D Wade

You're not starting with a lot of size I'll say that Uh, Hawaiian Dwight Howard is Damn bro Defense Kawai and Dwight Howard is a monstrous combo, bro All right

Go ahead Ah man, this is so tough but go ahead and give me Scotty Pimpin. Oh, that's a good pick. And then wrap. Yeah, and then loop it up. Give me, I'm going a little bit small, but give me Dominique Wilkins too.

Okay, so you have your one, two, and three. It's not that small. All right, that's fine. Give me Anthony Davis. Ah, I was hoping I could have both of them next to the door. Damn. No, I'm not letting you get that. Damn, that's a good pick.

So who do you have, you have, you have Wade, C. CP3 and Anthony Davis. Yep. CP3 to AD Lobbs? That's nasty. And CB3 to D. Wade Lobs? Like, I see the vision. You know what?

I'm going to go all in on defense. Give me Paul George of the two. And, oh, wait, no, I was going to pick. I'm not going to go in on defense. I was almost going to pick Drake. No, no. Oh. Okay.

Paul George is the two. Let me Chris Bosch at the four. I was thinking about that. He's on my list. That's nice. My team is huge. Whoa. Okay

GERTH Okay, so with my next pick What do I want to go? Where do I want to go? Cat Come on, man Don't disrespect me Don't disrespect me

That's what I'm saying Give me Give me Jason Tatum Wow Wow, that's so crazy I'm leaning in on defense this this uh this draft okay that's nice that's nice i like that all right so at my five give me yow ming and then big yeah i like it well i get in trouble for saying it like that

i don't know it don't matter but at my four go ahead and give me carmello anthony oh don't get him he let him fall into your hands for the first time yeah i'm doing it three t i don't you should take this as a It's okay. It's okay. I got to get a five. Do I want to play AD at the five? Go give me a four. Go give me a natural five. Oh, oh. I'm going to go give me another Nick. That's why I let Carmela go. Give me Patrick Ewing at my five. That's nice. That's a very talented back court, front court. Very talented front court. That's hell of nice.

Last pick. There's two point guards that got to try. choose between which direction do i want to take this team you know what give me the best defense ever crafted give me jason kid okay that's nice two three and five a lockdown defenders you could have that's nice what do you mean yeah i thought you're going that way i thought you're going that way i also want to fucking star on offense i'm on both yeah that's a nice thing dame that was a tough one you should pick dame damn damn I was going to pick him. You should have picked Dane for sure.

I have Jason Kidd, Paul George, Kauai Leonard, Chris Bush, and Dwight Howard. That's a big-ass team, man. You just making me uncomfortable right now. I got CP3, Dwayne Wade, Jason Tatum, Anthony Davis, and Patrick Ewing. That's nice. That's nice. Yo, Tatum, A.D. Ewing is terrifying. I'm back.

I'm back. Dominique Wilkins, Scotty Pimpin, Mello, and Yao Ming. I don't necessarily love the fits with Melo there, but I did that because for disrespect. First thoughts, you lost. That's one. Second thoughts, you also lost. But who got better vibes? I mean, I don't even think it's used. What?

Luke is a bad vibe to start with at the one. say that. Thank you. Oh, let's relax. Recency bias. Whatever, B.O. Listen, Scotty Kippin is having a terrible time in life right now.

His vibes are horrendous. Oh, my God. Horrendous. Okay. Melo does not bring good vibes either. Don't say that. You have the worst vibes, too. Dude, I don't know.

I have the worst vibes. You're kidding me? What about Yao Ming? He's cool. He's cool. He does a lot for the vibes. He put a smile to everybody's face. All right, next thing we're going to do, as always,

a tier list we're going to tear out championship teams we did this before we're going to do it again with different teams 10 of them for you guys you know the job by now it's a tier list we do this every week so let's put these NBA championship teams into a tier list first off the 96 bulls s tier championship team he's at the bar that's what i'm saying yeah got to get them out of the way so we know where the s tier stands thank you yeah no conversation needs to be had next up the 2001 lakers are they also s tier also s tier they should be yes they lost one they lost one game yeah that's crazy please untouchable you have you have that video on twitter that goes around of shack and Kobe going um shack and going going crazy every time

that is that's that's that's peak oh one lakers yeah yeah vibes are outrageous bro exactly these two teams probably have the best duo in NBA history. Easily. All right. Next up, the 2020 Lakers. This tier, you started off so high and now we're dropping off a couple tiers. And I'm thinking maybe C. Not C.

I was thinking B. I was going to say B. B? Yeah. They were the number one Z. Like going into the year, they were really dominant. They didn't lose games if they were up. Like after the third quarter

LeBron was still healthy AD was healthy AD had a jumper like They're good Yeah you had you had an elite defense The best player alive Still damn near at the peak of his powers With arguably the best version of any teammate he's ever had

In that single season run of AD I think it's at least B I'm going to be yeah I think I'm not going to go to the end with that I think B is fair But man that's is it a Mickey Mouse ring Is it a Mickey Mouse ring? Are we putting it in C for that reason

2015 Warriors Oh, this is D D or C Oh, D or C Yeah, D or C Oh, D is harsh D or C C

C, okay, I'll say C I'll say C They won like 67 games They were great Like, it's easy to say They were not a high quality championship Because they beat LeBron When he was really injured

With there's no teammates But they would have won Either way, I think, that year I don't know if they would have won it Either way But anyways, like Regardless of that guy This is the worst version

of the Warriors, which is insane to say. So, and, like, looking at their roster, the whole strength of numbers thing, was beautiful basketball. But when you're comparing him to powerhouses, like, both of these sacred teams, the Bulls, of course, like, it's clear as they, this is one of, like, not the best, this is not the best championship team. I mean, I don't know, listen, I don't know if Danny Green could have held Leandro Barbosa. Oh, my God. I don't know. I don't know. Spades? That's what I'm

Mo Buckets? Peak Sean Livingston? Those nine points a game are backbreakers. Come on. Andrew Bogi? Still, still jumping? This is a squad. They're going to be started on Peak Harrison Barnes. Easily one of the most irritating teams to

Fessus Zeeley coming off the bench and giving another team's fits. Oh my God, Fessus Azili. How could I forget? Wow. What a guy. All right. Next up. 2023 Nuggets This is B? A or B? Are they better than 2020 Lakers?

Oh, this is so tough, man. If they are, they're just barely better, so I feel like they might be in the same tier. This is tough. I think there are B. I think there are B. It's hard, but... Yeah.

I think maybe B for now, but I won't be shocked if you look back in a few years and realize they were A. I'm going to go. Go A. I'm going to go A. I think having Nicole Leokic at his like apex right now, and we don't even know if it's his apex, but like at the. Probably. Maybe, right? But like, you have a guy who is stumped for MVP, average a triple double. And when you have that centering your offense, everything else is good. Jamal Murray was on fire. Michael Porter Jr. was good all year. They lost four games in the entire playoff run. Like probably has to be an A. they made it look easy like that was one of the most sweatless finals runs you've ever seen yeah and there was a certain no actually and there actually was it out for the denver nuggets too once the whole kd thing happened everyone's like oh like this is the team a lot of people

including us like had a lot of our money onto them so it may be in a playoff started once the playoff started every matchup they had nobody thought they were going to lose once the series started yeah yeah exactly so Yeah, just they never were at risk of losing in terms of what was happening on the court. We thought things prior going into it, but once the game started, they never struggled. Are we talking ourselves into an A right now? Let's do it. I think we are.

I think they are. I think they. Let's do it. A it is. The 2013 Miami Heat. Also 18. Also A tiered just because of how great LeBron was. They can't go into S?

They can't cross that threshold? You can't go into S. If you had, if you said 2012, because D-Waid's knees were like just starting to give out with 12 feet, 2012 feet. S-12 feet. S-tier. Ooh. S-tier, the shooting that they had, the, yeah, the shooting that they had, Chris Bosch, like, playing that five, them kind of moving into, like, this new small ball era, you know, they were able to catch the whole league off guard, like, not off guard, whatever, but like. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think them, and also defensively, they.

were a team where they were able to like they could lock in for five minutes and blow the whole game open and it would be a wrap so i'm going that's exactly the ceiling was crazy they had more variance than teams like the lakers or bulls but their ceiling was as high as any team we've ever seen like you said when they locked in they were unfuck with a bull they're probably at the bottom of whatever the s tier is but they're too good for a tier okay that's okay that's that's fair to say i was gonna ask i already know your answer but 96 bulls versus 22 feet who's you got yeah the bulls the bulls are just a more complete team with the the teams the team fit together better and had less holes in the bull than the heat had they were more talent oriented

rather than fit yeah absolutely and as to what donovan said back when they made those lineup adjustments and stuff like that that was super early in the new era NBA that were slutted out with today when it comes to the spacing and shit like that so i agree s tier below tier stair the 2008 Celtics I hate that team so much we gotta go be though we we have to go be their defense was also ridiculous they were holding people under and this is a different time but they were holding people under 90 points a game like they were different defensively they were deep too like they had like said the first big three of the modern era three stars legitimately rondo was no slouch

like they'd be at minimum be at minimum minimum is fair but easily one of the most The most annoying championship teams ever, bro, ever. Paul Pierce over here claiming that he's better than D. Wade. Oh, no, he's a wild boy. Yeah, if there's a likability of talent, this is an F tier. Yes. There's a quality of players, it's a B tier. Y'all better to me, man.

I get in my emotions, I rank them. They're not even on the radar. All right, next up, the 95 Rockets. Damn. This is a D tier. It's a D. Okay. they get they get actually that this seems kind of mean because like but they were coming back a lot

like they were that's like I think that 95 is the year that like that clutch city got got like pinned on them because they were they were down in nearly every series but like they like Clyde Drexler was still good but he wasn't you know Clyde Drexler exactly it's Hakeem it's like it's an okay team but I still think that they get beat by a lot of these other ones that's what it comes down to is that they have Akeem who is as good as any star ever debatably at that point, but two through 10, compare them to somebody at the 2015 Warriors, the supporting cash isn't quite as good. I don't think they'd be able to beat the other powerhouse champions of all time.

They get washed by using it. I think they get not washed. I think that's a little bit disrespectful to say, but I don't think about it twice when it comes to matching up that team against a team like the Warriors of the Celtics or Lakers obviously. So, yeah. Yeah. They would have beat the Bulls, though.

I will say that. The Bulls? Yeah. pre-rodman bulls i think they i think they beat them that's not crazy to say that's another conversation the 2011 mavericks oh that's like a i don't i don't like these guys f t what i don't like tary it's dear it's dear loki f like it's it's an inspirational run yeah it's an inspirational run bro it's probably c tier just because of like the run that they had to get there and the people that they knocked off i think talent wise

they're very comparable to the 95 rockets i think i think they're closer to the rockets than they are to the 2015 warriors wow they were knocking people they knocked off they swept kobe that year and they beat durand in like five games like they they were five games crazy i can't remember it was five games i think it was quick but they were quick yeah but i mean in terms of gauging the impressiveness of their run sure but that runs only so impressive because they weren't that talented compared to these other teams. If they were as talented as other teams

they would have did what they're supposed to do but it was impressive because they were not supposed to be doing this shit with Jason Terry Jason Kid and Deshawn Stevenson? Sean Marion Yeah like Sean Marion Tyson Taylor I think it's got to be D same logic as the Rockets Jay J.J. Barrea

Dallas I got you on my heart you was seeing my heart that's terrible Next up The 2010 Lakers This is kind of hard to rank Yep Kobe and Gasol champions Is this

It's not It's not an A No No So it has to be a B Probably a C Or a C I'm thinking a C

I'll say C I'll say C They Yeah They're They're not an all-time defense Or an all-time offense

So They're not someone like The Celtics who have that one unit you can point to as being one the best of all time and it's not the best

version of Kobe either they don't have like the top tier player at his peak like the nuggets do with Yokic They just got it done Yeah

they just what they'd have They just got it done Who was in front of them They'd be who was in front of them Man Yeah Not a particularly remarkable team I'm okay with that

Yeah I ain't I ain't gonna argue about that at all See Nice look at this list we got So we got S tier is the Bulls Lakers and Heat A tier is a Nuggets, B tiers of Lakers and Celtics, C tiers of Warriors and Lakers, and D tiers of Rockets and Mavs.

A real quick question. Is there an F tier team that exists that's won a championship? I was thinking that too. If so, let's put them on a list. Probably back in the day, like teams from like the 70s or some shit that is like snuck one in. But like nobody that comes to mind. I don't know. Is that 2004 Pistons in F tier?

She you got to go D tier Do we why Because for the same reason that we talk about the O8 Celtics like their defense is just that legendary And it's that yeah but they also KG and Pierce like If If that team ran it back for three more years But they get to the finals again that that Pistons team

Fuck no That business team made the finals twice Yeah they they made the finals twice They made the conference finals four times Like it wasn't just a one time thing They were legitimately good Ben Wallace is a is a Hall of Famer four-time DPOI Like they have they have guys

Don't give this historian That is true Next video Next thing we're gonna be a long episode y'all We still got another 30 minutes in this bitch Woo Next up next video we're gonna do Is we do another player draft

Where we build a player This time it's gonna be building a point guard With only retired players So I did my homework No dame No curry It's a lot of names

A lot of the all-time great point guards are playing right now, so it's going to be kind of difficult. More difficult than you think. This least is, you got to get creative with this list. Yeah, I think to the last one we did, I think I went second.

Who went first last time? I think I went first. No, Donovan picked Booker passing first in the shooting guard. No, you're lying. Yeah, I didn't get that off the board. Oh, you're right, you're right, you're right. So me first, Mo second, Donovan third.

Oh, ha, ha, ha. You guys are so funny. You guys are so funny. So, let's draft the perfect NBA point guard with only skills from retired players. That's right where I want to be, too. Third pick, this is good. Gross. First pick, give me Magic Johnson Body.

I knew you were going there. I knew you were going there. Yeah, okay. Need that build. Predictable. Nice. Real quick for the audio, for the listeners, Isaac, what are the segments? Or what are the archetypes or whatever.

We got body, shooting, finishing, defense, and passing. You're slick. You said for the audio listeners, really was for you. But I'll let you have it. I have mine right here right in front of me. I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm glad you said that because I thought instead of finishing,

we were doing handles this week. So thank you. Just pulled out. It makes sense why you'd think that. Okay. So you said body for Magic Johnson. He got a lot of bodies. Whoa.

I didn't mean like that. I didn't mean it like that. My mind was like, Steerner's that way. I meant to say he had a lot of body, not bodies, but then my mom was like, no you didn't.

No other way. Interception. You were making the joke. Stand on it. Ah, you copy, you copy me, whatever.

Make your pick. Whatever, right. So for passing, there's a lot of great options. Go ahead and give. me yeah I just stump myself mentally bro because there's so many fucking stalling but give me Jason kid whatever give me Jason kid

all right that's cool okay let me let me okay we're a point guard let's do this first off give me defense give me Gary Payton defense ah that's a great pick and then for rebounding give me rebounding there's no rebounding I had that I had that ruined my bad why the fuck is you read that rebounding you never did that And then for body, give me Penny Hardaway. Okay, Penny's a good pick. There's only two really tall, all-time great point guards. So we got them both.

Damn. Like, I'm mad at it and get Gary Payton. Gary Payton's a big advantage. Yeah, that sucks for me, man. Lockdown? Yeah, we're good. We're good. Six, seven, but yeah.

That reeks. Okay, so for shooting. Six nine issues. Let me go ahead and give me, go ahead and give me Steve Nash. For shooting, you said? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to pick.

I've got to delete the guys you pick off my list. There's a lot of options here. For shooting, give me Steve Kerr. What? No Gilbert Arenas? Give me Steve Kerr. Give me Steve Kerr. Gilberian is actually on my list towards the bottom.

Yeah. And then so I got shooting, I got body, any finishing defense and passing. I'm going to bet one of these. Actually, you know what? I'll just take them now. For defense, give me Walt Frazier. that's good okay that's good yeah okay locked down at six nine oh i fix magic's one weakness okay so for finishing go ahead and give me baron davis high flyer i need it okay

i need it i like that i wasn't even thinking about him that's a good pick yeah i need it for for shooting it's going to be a dk either way oh my god but It's going to be something crazy. I'm going to just do it because I want to say his name. Give me Mahmoud Abdul-Ra-Uf for shooting. Oh, that's nice. That's hard. That's hard.

Nice, deep cut. Let me get them for shooting. Respect. That the off the dribble back here. I like it. Yep. Respect. The O.G.

Curry. Yep. And then for finishing, give me Isaiah Thomas. Oh, damn. Oh, G. Isaiah Thomas. That's a steal. Nice. Nice.

Okay. That's my next pick. Fuck. All right. I think I'm here. I think I'm proud of myself All right So for defense

Give me Chauncey Billups Underrated Why if you ain't A lot of people forget about that name Um Yeah All right guys I'm gonna pick the steal of the draft here

Give me Kevin Johnson for finishing That's good That's good You don't talk about a high flyer One of the best point guard dunkers of all time Slept on Barron Davis Catch some more highlights in him boy

All right I left is passing give me the all-time assist leader, John Stockton. Lame, phony assist, fake assist, fake stats. Make asses. Get your shots. Not my favorite person, but for passing skills, I'll take them. That's cool. She's not taboo like his teammate is.

Gross. He's close. He's trying to make them some taboo. He's trying to. He's close. They are partners for life. One more discretion. and I might have to put him on the list.

You might join Mr. Bridges and Mr. Nasty Man. Oh, I'm good. Mr. Nasty Man. Okay. All right, so. Limp for body. I'm kind of running short on this. But,

literally. Yeah. For the sake of vibes, give me Sean Livingston. He ain't the fastest out here. He big as hell. And you're going to feel him. He's up all you, bro.

Big as hell Yeah All right For passing All yeah Let's go here Give me Rajan Rondo For passing

I knew you're gonna pick That's a good pick That's what I would have picked It's an amazing big Two points 25 assists My guy's a Hall of Fame Yeah

These are all the best players Of all time I have I'm in the inner circle The Hall of Body Magic Johnson's body I'm large

Steve Kerr's shooting Kevin Johnson's finishing John Stockton passing and Walt Frazier defense Go watch your highlights Go watch your highlights Know who Isaac's talking about I'm just about I'm just about

The comments aren't going to love my player Because they don't know shit about Kevin Johnson Or Steve Kerr Or Walt Frazier for that matter But my player is nasty For body I got Sean Livingston shooting Steve Nash

finishing Baron Davis Passing Jason kid in defense Chauncey Billups. We got a lot of old head names. Well, they're all retired. They're all old. Yeah, I know. This TikTok might not do

a little thing about it. Bain. This kids are at who? Yeah. If it's on the mellow ball, what? Thanks. All right.

For body, I have Penny Hardaway shooting Mahmood, Abdul Abdul Roof. Finishing, I have O.G. Isaiah Thomas. Passing,

I have Rosharondo. Bro. But he was freaking laughing. me off oh my god laughing at me I I'm

I'm for past God we all don't know if I remember to put it in there I'm gonna put his audio in there but our production to kill

his mic wasn't muted so he's sitting there giggling and Donovan's hearing laugh I was just in my is just laughing

he's not laughing he's giggling he's giggling he made fun of all right Finishing OJSAia Thomas Passing Rajah Rondo Defense Gary Payton

My guy is the best player out of Out of all of ours I won I don't know about that I'm large I am too My guy's six nine That's a

Yeah That total voice was crazy That wasn't good I have bought eyes I've ever heard mode. That was not erotic. I'm so sorry to the audio listeners.

Me too. Sorry. He was moving his shoulders with it. I seem to said that. Sassy ass. Yeah. All right. The next thing we're going to do, we're going to stick on the topic of point guards. I'm going to list some NBA teams and you guys have to list who the best point guard

in their team history is. Okay. So let's be interesting. We're going to go through 10 teams. Let's get this. I love this. Who is the best point guard? guard in this NBA team's history.

First off, the Atlanta Hawks. It's going to be Tray Young. I think it's too early to say Trey already. It will be, but it might be a little early as is. Who's your other option? Pistol Pete. Pete Marevich? We don't care.

Yeah. He knew the other option. He's the ass. I'm going to say Trey. No Doc Rivers? Let's be for real. Come on now. He's a one-time one-star.

Hell no. Gross. Word? You made an also team with that? Yeah. Wow. Wow. No, I actually did it.

188. Wow. 14 points, 9.3 assists. Gross. Look at that. Look at that. Okay, Doc. Look at Doc.

I see you, Doc. I see you. Okay. That's nice. That's nice. Respect. But it's straight, young, though. Okay. The Boston Celtics.

We can't. We can't give this to Bob. Why not? Dude. That's wrong with Bob. That's right with Bob. The way my eyes went wide open just to think about this and I'm like, damn, it might be Bob. I don't want to, though. Melissa, is it Marcus Smart? I'm worried.

No, it's Bob Goosey. I mean, I guess honorable mention can be Rajan Rondo, but it's Bob Cousy pretty easily. Let me see the Rondo, tennis tennis. All right, fine, fine, fine. I want to say Rondo, but whatever. We'll give Cousy the nod. I saw some highlights Bob Coozy recently. I think it was Yokic Jostar on Twitter, was showing his highlights.

That man could actually pass. It was kind of crazy. I was watching him run up down the court. The passes he'd been making were kind of nuts, actually. Oh. Granted. playing against substitute teachers but the man could pass

Isaac we just gained one new hater thank you next up the Brooklyn Nets oh this is easy this is Jason kid yeah hands down who's second who's even no Darren Williams

oh Darren Williams should be in the conversation for a second but he was washed when he got there though yeah not washed but he wasn't his best years weren't with the Nets though. Yeah. It's a nice name, though. I think it's very clearly Jason Kidd. No, Kyrie Irving love?

That boy gave them straight hell and turmoil. That man ruined Joe's life. Yeah, good grief, man. Man had nightmares. Couldn't sleep, couldn't spend a week without fucking Kyrie doing some shit. He had not. That man, listen,

as far as accomplishments go, Kyrie did topple one of the most talented teams of all time, single-handedly. it was his own team but he still didn't she has messed up but it's true next

not Jason kid though for sure the Chicago Bulls is Derek Gross RIP Tedd is DIROS Yeah DIRC is Derek Gross That one year That one year does it

Is nobody else in competition Nah Yeah Not even thinking about it Who do you want to talk about? I think you're right BJ Armstrong I don't even know

Shit, the fall-up is crazy. Kirk Heinrich? No, my goodness, bro. Steve Kirk. Name another point guard who has a name. Name another point guard who has a song by a little pump. Is D. Rose. Listen.

Easy. Lanzo ball for the first 20 games. Uh-oh. Legendary. I think if you just look at Derek Rose's October through January of 2011, that alone. for a career would be enough to be number one

on the Bulls list I agree I agree he was like that Lynn Sanity would be enough to be second on this list

Oh my God ooh the Cleveland Cavs Kyrie or is a Mark Price I want to say Kyrie though it's Kyrie

it's Kyrie it's Kyrie over Mark Price he got the chip he got the chip he got the chip with LaBre and he hit the shot and he scored 41 in game 5

Too many memorable moments, bro Way too many memorable moments Help uplift that organization When it really matters What? Cairo did what? Seven years there? 20 no Wait

What did he come in? 2011? He came in 2011 He did six years there yeah Okay Six years there It's not the most longevity But he does have the accomplishment

The chip so I can rock with it The motion was there Wasn't for long But he damn near he had it Yeah Thank God LeBron came back Yeah

Yeah. If you didn't come back, we'd be having a completely different conversation. The Dallas Mavericks. Damn. Do you want to say Luca or? Is it Lucas? Listen. Is it Jason Kid?

So the first instinct is going to be to say Jason Kid. Yeah. But he wasn't Jason Kid, though. Yeah, exactly. Luca has played five years there. four first team all NBAs I don't know of any other player in their history besides Dirk that has four first team all NBAs

All right So easy so early into his career Like there's no conversation to have Not like the franchise is historically great You got it, you won Luca Dunch it's Easy Convo Shout out Luca

Good job The Los Angeles Lakers Magic I know what you guys are thinking you're thinking Derek Fisher I'm going to go DeAngelo Russell I was thinking about Steve Blake but fair point fair point

right but I mean 2017 Lonsel ball has a claim I don't know if we're going to give it to him because of health but he's in the conversation you're thinking Lanzo I'm thinking Alex Caruso oh fuck I'm going to overlook Alex Caruso he changed the game

you guys are forgetting about somebody from the 80s you guys are forgetting about Norm Nixon and I don't understand You're disgusting Gross man He was the point guard before magic got there I didn't even know that All right

It's Magic Johnson Next The Hornets Kemba Walker Is it you? Am I a Hall of Famer? Am I a Hall of Famer? Put respect on

Kembo Walker Name man Is it Kembo? Yes, Kemba. You don't think twice about it. It's Kemba. They are a pop. Multiple all-stars.

I think, how many all-stars have they had in their organization's history? I mean, they've had a couple. A couple. Who? Kemba, Alonzo Morning, lamello ball. Larry Johnson.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's Kemba. Yeah, Larry Johnson. Larry Johnson's probably their best player ever. Yeah. speedy meatball

last one the Houston Rockets is James Hardin right you're gonna call him a point for his entire because he really like

switch it was like half and half I think most of James Hardin's time there was a shooting guard I think his I think his best time was as a point guard though no his best time

was when he had CP and he won the MVP he was a shooting guard he was a shooting guard for a couple years before CP got there so what count Hardin is a two outside

of him. Is it those two years of Chris Paul? Damn, CP3s feels weird as hell. Yeah, no, I'd rather put Hardin, to be honest. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to lie. Like, you could put, you could say that like Hardin played point guard or whatever. Y'all forget about Steve Francis. Let's not do that.

Steve Francis. I'm not going to lie, listen, the 2008, 2009, Houston Rockets, Aaron Brooks was low-key cooking. It's like he. Oh, my God. That is the deep. Keep this cut, dude. Listen, I was watching those games on My 20.

Listen, Aaron Brooks was doing something. Let me see. How many years did Steve Francis play with this, too? He played one, two, three, four, five. Steve Francis made three all-star games with his team. Is that better than what Chris Paul gave them in the two years? Did Chris Paul make any all? Hell no.

Bro. Yeah, Chris Paul, me too. Almost beating that 2018 Warriors team? No, hell no. Almost being that 2018 Warriors team, damn near deserves a banner within itself. Oh, stop that. Actually, no,

let's be real. Actually, Chris Paul didn't give them any All-Stars. Yeah. So Steve Francis, congratulations. Oh, my God, bro. CP3 almost beat...

You're the best. CP3 almost beat one of the greatest teams of all time. Give him his respect. He didn't do it. Chris Paul's greatest accomplishment in the Rocker's uniform was choking.

Congratulations. You got a degenerate. No, no, no. Chris didn't do that, though. Because he was hurt. Like he always is His greatest The college has been not available

That's crazy He's not Damn Steve Francis You are the goat I never thought I was his name of these convos Next thing we're going to do

Is I'm going to show you guys Some graphics Of starting fives For NBA teams And you had to guess them Based on the colleges They went to We've done this before

But this time There's going to be a twist Because there's going to be One missing Okay So it's going to be a question marks okay yeah guess this NBA team based on where they went to college first up here we go this is the Sacramento Kings hell no this is your are you crazy not the Sacramento

Kings this is the Oklahoma City Thunder I only know that because that obscure ass calls that J-Dade up went to Santa Clara yeah I had to look at him like is that a community college I saw I saw Kentucky and that guy immediately thought of Fox and Sabonis I got, you said, is that last chance, you? All the Santa Clara alumni are going to be on our next tomorrow. All six of them? Great. Oh, no.

Spare me. All right. Next up, we got this one. Phil Feet to scroll. This is. Oh, this is the Dallas Maverick. correct this is not the Dallas Mavericks okay if it's not the Mavericks is it the Boston Celtics it's not mostly because I lied in this is the Dallas Mavericks oh you asked me doubt to myself

Tyree Duke that Tennessee is Grand Williams yeah Williams is a projected Linus for next year but who went to Michigan Tim Hardaway Jr. Oh yeah damn which granted Josh Green might start over him but it doesn't matter yeah whatever next one how about this team oh this is the Houston Rockets

damn that was fast damn bother you if there was two question marks yeah because there's like two players in the league from Wichita State so like yeah one of them

who's the other one Auburn is Debarre Smith Jr then Oregon is Dylan Brooks no I'm saying which what other player goes to which went to which i don't know we'll keep up with them like that oh man yeah i just assumed there's no more i just said it yeah there could be 10 people in the league from wichita stay i wouldn't know ron baker he's not listen nick's legend ron baker he's not there anymore cle anthony early ew my name all right next one how about this team oh this is the

Golden State Warriors. You got Dreemann? You're going to talk through it. Talk to this. Yeah. I can't. I know this too well. This isn't.

This isn't hard for me. I can't just manage. I was stump for a second with Clay's college. Yeah, Clay went to Washington State. Yeah, bro. That's so forgettable for me, bro. Doesn't even feel real. Yeah, that's what that's one.

If you know where Clay went, you get this instantly. If you don't know, you're going to struggle. Yeah, exactly. Next one. How about this team? this oh i got a i got to i got to oh i got to i have to make up some i got to know this there's only two players yeah there's only two players in the NBA or three players in the NBA who

went to uGA that's nick claxon there's kCP and then there's anthony adwards has to be the t-woles nice that's for the t-tok It's right to TikTok Last up Damn Oh Last up It either has to be Nick Claxton

Or KCP And I'm leaning Nick Claxton Villanova Terrible delivery Yeah I know It was fucking ass

It has to be Nick Clarkson I have no idea who went to Colorado but I know that McHale Bridges went to Villanova and I'm taking him so I'm taking to Brooklyn. Yeah, who the hell went to Colorado? Who was that guard? Spencer Dinwiddie. He was at Colorado.

I'd never seen one college highlighted Spencer, Danny and Dinwiddie in my life. He had no offers like that. He had no motion. Damn. His bro was posted in Boulder. Yeah, man. Just him and Derek White,

play mad games of madden that's crazy that's it about each other yeah nah man damn spencer all right

we got one more video before we get out of here in this long ass pod Donovan I think you have some names that we're going to blind rank that's right how many

what do I have rank these NBA players without knowing who's next gross all right y'all ready I'm ready cool

rate these NBA players rate these NBA players without knowing who's next you said rate I'll rank Rank these NBA players Without knowing who's next Okay, let's go

I'm built for blind rankings Kyle Coozum This would be perfect Kyle Cusma That's a quintessential four I think Wait Ooh, Kyle Cusma

He has to be a four He's a perfect four Perfect four He's built to be number four Yeah perfect mid Okay Okay Fourth place in every race

He's ever ran Donovan Mitchell He has to be two or one my gut says two my brains has maybe one but i'm gonna go with the gut he's number two let's do two there's gonna be there's gonna be one true superstar on this list i know it yeah exactly there there's definitely at least 10 players better than him in the mbba jason tainer's on this list i'm feeling it number three de angelo russell oh that's five yeah that's a quick damn bro yeah rumor has it yeah rumor has a deal low still

shooting them practice free throws, bro. Yeah, no. Yeah, no. Easy five. Next one, Devin Booker. Look at us. He is number one.

Number one. Perfect. Perfect. Conversation is over. This is a perfect list. Tell me number three. I nailed it. I know it.

Jason Tatum is next. Fuck! I told you Jason Tate was on this list. Isaac. You're a bastard. Oh, why didn't you stay 10 toes? I was too right. Fuck.

You're nasty for having these. You're nasty for having Jason say at them last. You're nasty. Jail. Yeah. What can I say? And just like that, this episode is over. Mo, tell people what they should comment.

Go ahead and comment, join the Discord. Comment I'm joining the Discord. you join the discord perfect right comment i joined the discord past tense tell us you've already done it and don't lie you know what don't lie yeah don't lie if if i find out you commented you joined the discord and you didn't i am going to what am i going to do to you don't even say it just know that it's over buddy oh it's coming just know it's coming whatever it's on the way yeah go ahead leave a like goodbye