The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked The Best Point Guards In The NBA | Ep. 97

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Ranking the NBA's top 30 point guards! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotif...y.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 2:03- 26-30 15:05- 21-25 27:00- 16-20 43:05- 11-15 1:06:16- 6-10 1:19:03- Top 5 1:31:35- TikTok Time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript
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Starting point is 00:00:00 There comes the time every summer once the NBA season is over. Us three at the deep three have a certain season that comes into play, right? It's kind of our, the prime of our year. We like to call this ranking season. And guys, today is the first day of 2024 ranking season. We are so fucking back. Listen, Jordan has fadeaways. Shack has dunks.
Starting point is 00:00:22 We have ranking episodes, right? This is what we do. This is a part of our game. About this time last year is when the show really, blew up and released started taking off. People love singer off season content because a lot of these shows, you know, summer comes around, people mail it in. People take vacations. People have some weeks off. They do their normal thing. Not us. We double down on bullshit. We come out. We rank stuff. We throw stuff interior lists. We do all the silly shit because you can do that any time
Starting point is 00:00:47 of the year. So now for the next month, we're going to do what we did last year, but we're going to rank the top 30 of every single position in the NBA. And obviously today we're starting with point guards. Five pods a day. Three summers. You know, you know, you know, You know how we do it. You know how we do it. That's lucky. So, you know, if you guys saw it last year, like I said, the top 30 point guards, based on, pretty much based on the last season, but we all have different criteria. We always end up on some bullshit where we're trying to figure out how we all view things.
Starting point is 00:01:20 And if it's the same. And spoiler, it never is. Some of us project. Some of us don't. Some of us give credit for certain things. Some of us don't. Some of us care more about injuries and others. To ease the run with these lists
Starting point is 00:01:31 So don't expect consistency between the three of us I'll say that Yeah even when we do end up like Agreeing on a certain criteria We all just like veer off to decide here And like here and there for the most random guys ever Yeah so there's no point Shout out personal biases
Starting point is 00:01:45 Exactly Man let's get into it The cranium is crazy Oh my God I mean, I don't know what to say. Pray on eaters rejoice! If you guys are watching on YouTube, do me a favor, drop like and subscribe. If you're on audio platforms, read it's five stars, leave a review, all of that.
Starting point is 00:02:11 But yeah, man, we're gonna start, like always, we're gonna start from the bottom half of the list first, going up to number one. So the first section is number 25 through 30. Mo, I already know your 24th point guard is disgusting. I'm ready to argue. Really? I don't know who I remember I think back to last year's ranking season I viscerally remember us arguing for like 15 minutes about Kyle Anderson who was
Starting point is 00:02:35 ranked like 27 on the small fours list it was it was it was Harrison Barnes versus Kyle Anderson is what my God spend it I spent 20 minutes on that that's a discussion on that I don't remember me personally I think I'm a Kyle Anderson guy so no you are a Harrison Barnes guy No way I was arguing for Kyle Anderson Over Harrison Barnes and you're like What would Harrison Barnes do wrong
Starting point is 00:03:01 And listen obviously we're not gonna rehash it So Isaac let's get into your list You got that one year later There we go Top 30 point guards number 26 through 30 starting off I have Kobe White at 26 Tice Jones at 27 Malcolm Brogden a 28
Starting point is 00:03:16 T.J McConnell at 29 and Chris Paul at 30 How do we feel Interesting interesting Chris Paul at 30 It feels weird I can get with it
Starting point is 00:03:30 Right yeah I don't explain that My first two cuts were very hard for me to cut Is Dennis Schroeder And Keonté George They're the first ones off the board I went with Chris Paul because I mean listen
Starting point is 00:03:43 Last year We can call it like it is Watch this far He can't get to the room At all anymore That was already falling off the past few years even when he was with Phoenix doing really well, was not getting to the rim.
Starting point is 00:03:54 The burst is even worse than before. It's hard for him to get those mid-range jump shots that he was eating with on the Phoenix Suns. Defensively, you know, he's just old and small. It's tough. Everything has kind of taken a step back. But, okay, he wasn't top 30 point guard last year at all, I don't think. I don't think he played that level whatsoever.
Starting point is 00:04:10 But I think that when he goes to a new team this year in the Spurs and is outside of the warrior system, he's probably back to being a starter, back to being the primary ball handler. I think he'll look better. I don't think the warrior system did him any justice, right? It was a weird fit that was done for money reasons to dump the Jordan Poole contract
Starting point is 00:04:26 and they made it work as best as they could but he was a six man. It was strange. I'm giving him, I feel like this has been giving him credit that he'll be better next year. Isn't it crazy that Chris Paul was just an all-star like two years ago?
Starting point is 00:04:41 And that he fell fast. When it goes, it goes quick. Yeah. Okay. I can, yeah, I can. Star to China within like 18 months. Hey, RIP, shout out Kimball Walker. Shout out, shout out Kimball.
Starting point is 00:04:57 I know, I know. Okay, so the rest of the list, I kind of, I think for me, like, because 27 through 30, you can have them in any, in any, like, format. I would, I'm assuming at 27, you're talking about Ty's Jones. Yeah, Ty's Jones. Yeah. I would have Tyres Jones and Kobe White a little bit higher. I think what Kobe White showed last year.
Starting point is 00:05:19 um is very very promising and there's a lot of teams and there's a lot of teams around the league who could use a guard like him and if you want to like if you want to say hey he has to come back and show it for a full season he did it you know pretty much for like a really good portion of last season so i think that what he did was kind of real um i agree but yeah i think i think i think I think 26 is just a little low for him, but I'm not upset at it. Yeah. So I agreed.
Starting point is 00:05:49 It was hard whenever I have that in my mind of him being a most improved player candidate looking fantastic. The burst was really finally able to show in a productive way, right? He's being practical with his athleticism and using it to be productive. But when I compared him to the guys right above him, like a spoiler, my 25 is D'Angelo Russell. When I really compared him in D.Lo, I think I wanted to go Kobe White pretty easily because like I say he's coming off of a great year
Starting point is 00:06:14 but I was like a great year of improvement for Kobe White is making him in the same tier as a guy like Delo who's a veteran already been making those leaps so I feel like if we're projecting a little bit Kobe White will probably take another leap next year and be better than these guys but we'll talk about the names above him specifically but I think the other guys in the next range
Starting point is 00:06:33 are just already on that similar tier while maybe being stronger defenders or stronger passers while Kobe White is still mainly a score Hmm. Okay. Okay. I can see that. I can understand that. Well, who's your next five? At 30, I have T.J. McConnell. I wish I could go ahead and put him up higher. 29, Dennis Schroeder, 28, DeAngel Russell, 27, Mike Conley, and 26. Marcus Smart. Ooh, there's so many names here that I have hired. This is so different.
Starting point is 00:07:04 This tier, low-key looks like my next tier. Like, smart calling and Delo this lower crazy to me. all right so what's the craziest thing that you guys see so far i think connie being at 27 yeah calmly being at 27 is is is a bit low even dealer like listen we all know de angela russell's limitations and i guess lack of performance in the playoffs 28 is still like come on like you you still have to put him above that so i think those two those two i'm looking at it's like I don't blame you though for kind of the playoff shit because he is like certified playoff dropper like in a very tangible repeatable way so I understand really holding that against him I didn't hold it as much but I get it with him when he's a playoff droper it's like he does
Starting point is 00:07:53 nothing else really valuable on the court somehow some way when your shots not falling of course that affects your playmaking skills I see it directly with him even though he's an above average passer but just I guess maybe have a little bit more bias towards him and because of the letdowns that he's had, he's had for the Lakers over the last two years. I dinged him of it because when I look at guys like Mike Conno, like he doesn't have to go ahead and hit like five threes to make his impacting presence felt. You will feel that through the pace of the, through his pace of the game and the important passes that he's going to be continuously making how he's orchestrating the offense. DeAnda Russell does not do that, probably because of his team and rolling or whatnot. And as for Marcus Smart, maybe I should have dinged him lower too because obviously last year he didn't play that much.
Starting point is 00:08:37 much he was alongside Jha and everyone else on the sidelines, bro. But traditionally, yeah, the market smart that we like usually know is a good point guard and can make his presence felt without his shot falling, which doesn't fall more, more times than not. Yeah. Brother, Adelo, it's tough because everything he says true. The letdowns in the playoffs. He's a, he's been a detrimental reason to why they can't beat the nuggets.
Starting point is 00:09:03 He's one of the most important starters, right? one of their better players, him going from one of the better role player point guards in the league to absolute zero has been like the number one reason why they can't beat the nuggets, I think. You need production from that spot for how much they pay him. But you got to balance that with the regular season where he had a really good year. He shot 42% from three and he shot 69% at the rim. That's pretty fucking high. Now, he doesn't get to the rim that often because doesn't have a burst, but he's really good when he gets there. Defensively, not great, obviously. I don't think he was horrible in the regular season, but in place, but in
Starting point is 00:09:35 playoff series they fry him they know how to attack him in the regular season though i think you hold his own like he said really good passer i think his presence has been so important for like anthony davis eat the past couple years you know this year we're talking about ad and top five convos a big part of that is because dlo knows how to feed him they have a good connection there he has enough regular season value that i can't put him this low around this range for me like i sit down and i'm just like bro you would thrive as a six man you would absolutely eat as a six man and right below him ironically enough dennis schroeder and t jac mccano some of the better six men in the entire NBA.
Starting point is 00:10:08 When I spell McConnell wrong in yours, tough. So you just, you spell shorter wrong too, but who cares? Oh, yeah, but I was going to write Dennis scrotum to troll you, but I was like, let me just go ahead and be professional. Yeah, listen, I made these graphics super fast. You're going to have to deal with the spelling errors, y'all. But no, I'm interested to see you next year because you have three players here that are in my next year, so I'm really wondering who you put hired to push these guys down.
Starting point is 00:10:30 Yeah. Now that I really look at it, I think I may have been hating on Dilo a little bit. too much just because the sour taste of my mouth and the last time I saw him. No, I get it. I get it. Same with Marcus Smart. It's hard to grade him when people haven't seen him in so long. There's always going to be some biases against guys that you just haven't seen.
Starting point is 00:10:47 But I, we'll get to him in the next year. Let's look at Donovan's 5. All right. My 5. Mark is Smart at 26. T.J. McConnell at 27. Chris Paul at 28. Keante George at 29. Malcolm Brogton at 30.
Starting point is 00:11:02 Wow. Shout out of John DeJoy's making it on there. Shout out Kianti George I didn't get him on there but I really really wanted to Debating him versus Chris Paul was tough And I feel like there's a good chance Keontzy George makes the second year leap And it's better than Chris Paul next year
Starting point is 00:11:17 I just couldn't That's a real possibility Maybe it's biased that I went towards the veteran But it was a tough decision To not put him on there So I respect you doing it Yeah I think I think Chris like I have Chris Paul on this list
Starting point is 00:11:30 For the same reason like you Like I think that next year We're gonna see an elevated version of him playing in golden state system is very very weird and you've seen you've seen like good players come through there and it's just not necessarily be the best fit you play a very specific type of way and for chris paul even though that he was supposed to be you know kind of this like this this bench you know general and do all that type of stuff you're still playing behind step curry it's still step's team when that's not how chris paul likes to play right chris paul is
Starting point is 00:12:00 very ball dominant he likes to have control and that's just not the way that the worries do So I think going into San Antonio system, playing with the guy like Wembe, where Chris Paul can close his eyes, throw the ball up, and he's going to get, you know, an extra two, three assist the game because of that. We'll probably get a better version of him. So that's why I have Chris Paul at 28. T.J. McConnell, shout out to him. You know what I'm saying? He's great. Great, great playoff performer.
Starting point is 00:12:26 And yeah, I think Mark is smart at 26. You can put him up higher. It's just the last year we, you know, the whole last year for the Grizzlies, which is just. just very weird so he's such a divisive player like he you understand he wanted he won a defensive player the year award who cares about whether or not people think he deserted or whatever but like what that's what that being said he is one of the better defensive guards one of the best defensive guards in the entire NBA but yeah on the offensive side of things is where things get really shaky and like haywire for him so he could easily be like in the next
Starting point is 00:13:01 tier maybe he is there for you or maybe he didn't make the list at all for you Isaac but I think 26 is a fair spot considering. Oh, he made my list. He made my list. Okay, sweet. One thing I'm going to do. I'm going to value some defensive guards. I'm going to value some defensive players for sure.
Starting point is 00:13:14 So he's a buyer. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, when Mark is smart. Well, pull up, pull out countess. Yeah, because that's, that's like, I think that County George is in line for another, another leap. And he's good. He, you just look at his numbers and he's just all across the board.
Starting point is 00:13:33 He's just not efficient enough for you. to actually put him higher. Yeah, that's why I had to come. Like Malcolm Brogton, as currently struck it as a rookie, Malcolm Brogton smokes him, I think. And we know Malcolm Brogton has an issue. He's never healthy ever. But, you know, it's a night and day, efficiency-wise.
Starting point is 00:13:48 Obviously, you know, he's a rookie, so Malcolm Boggins a better defender or passer, all this stuff. Can I think George's, like, definition of, like, I test, you're like, oh, this guy's going to be special. When you look at all the numbers, you're like, oh, yeah, he's also a rookie. Because he's just like, again, I'm on cleaning the glass. All the numbers are blue.
Starting point is 00:14:03 They're all blue as fuck, which means below average. It's crazy. I watch Keonti George, and I'm like, that boy nice, you know? And that's that's what it comes down to. That's also why I have Brogden below. Like, Brogden was a very interesting cut. I know that he's a good player. This is something that's very consistent for me.
Starting point is 00:14:25 If you cannot play on my team because you're always hurt and I can't rely on you, you are going to drop a couple steps. And that's why Brogden is right there at third. for me. Yeah. See, this is a consistent argument point in our list because I try to separate health from it because I just hate when we harbor on people being unlucky with health injury so much and pretend they're not good. And you're like, listen, if you're not there, you're not there. So this leads to a lot of difference in placements. Some people are just unlucky. And if that's you, I don't get away from my franchise. Too bad. I'm so sad. I love hope you all have
Starting point is 00:14:58 T. T.J. McConnell here for sure. Do you guys have Tice Jones up higher? Did you not include them? Yeah, I put them higher I've put them a little higher Oh okay interesting Alright let's go the next one We have quite a disparity here Between my list and y'all's in this year Okay let's see
Starting point is 00:15:14 Who's your next five So my next five At 25 I have Chris Paul 24 Fred Van Vleet 23 Tice Jones I was in absolute hell Trying to figure out where to put
Starting point is 00:15:27 Emmanuel quickly And I wish I put him higher And at Isaac you know what's funny as you know what's funny right before what did what did I say I said Mo I don't know what you what you have but your 20 but your number 24 is disgusting and I was right how is Fred Van Vlee at 24 that's disrespectful to Fred Van Vlee that's so wild is it is he he's so much closer to the mid he's so much closer to the middle of the pack than being towards the bottom of the list.
Starting point is 00:16:04 You put him one spot ahead of Chris Paul, who we're projecting is going to get better. Fred Van Vleet is much better than Chris Paul right now. Yeah, I think you sleep on him a little bit. I think he's closer to like the Dejante Murray range than he is to the Tice Jones range. Having Tice Jones above him is wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just see Fred Van Vleet and like his archetype.
Starting point is 00:16:30 And of course, like, Chutele III's place all. a defense or whatever doesn't you know get to the room much and shit like that and I'm just like damn you can't really do too much with that type of player and I don't know how far he can take you as one of the main options on the team but of course you don't look at you don't look at him like that point point blank in general so maybe I should have had him higher him I think he's like a premier role player he he's like a premier role player for a team that needs a point guard that will like elevate not elevate those around him but be able to fit well and like he's a floor razor more than anything I think you know that's why the Rockets got him brought him in to
Starting point is 00:17:04 help get these young dudes in line because they were playing fake basketball under stephen silas but yeah he had a very efficient year well let me say that very efficient for his standards because he's not efficient at all as a little guy who doesn't score at the rim but he had a 56% true shooting which is about league average and 17.4 points per game 8.1 assist 3.1 rebounds 1.4 steals 38% from 3 and he's a solid defender like I just think he's a very solid player he's like small de jante i think yeah like in terms of like
Starting point is 00:17:34 where you cast them in the NBA sure i can agree to that i just see his play style and i just don't like how not his play style i i enjoy his way style i just don't like how he's casted currently in being one of the main guys i think it's just one of those situations where he's just i mean he's on a reboding team he looks a little worse
Starting point is 00:17:51 exactly i know if you if you put him alongside like janis or some shit like that or lebron or some big wing then I probably feel a lot different about him. We need next to Kauai again. Exactly. The last time he had a big wing, they won a chip. So it's like I can, I can see that.
Starting point is 00:18:09 But yeah, 24 is kind of wild. Tys at 23 is fine. Emmanuel quickly at 22. I don't hate that. I wanted to put quickly higher. I generally have no idea who the hell is better between Kobe White and Emmanuel quickly. Are these guys in the same exact year or is he manual quickly doesn't actually like that because it's playing me?
Starting point is 00:18:25 They're definitely in the same tier. I put quickly a little bit higher quickly I thought I was pretty impressed by his passing when he got to Toronto you know obviously when he was to the Knicks he wasn't in a playmate can roll by any stretch of the imagination right he was a bench combo guard he was averaging 2.5 assists per game
Starting point is 00:18:41 for those first 30 games but then he got to the Raptors 6.8 assists per game that was a big jump to me that I stood out watching that like you could tell that he had that in his game he just wasn't really empowered to do so and I think Kobe White is you know not really a passer at all like not to say can't he's not a black hole. But that's not a release role. He's kind of in the role that quickly goes before
Starting point is 00:19:00 where he's like the combo guard go get a bucket guy. And again, not Kobe White's fault. Maybe he could also make that leap if needed. But I think that's a pretty big difference in value between what they've shown so far. Yeah. Okay. I agree. I think what I did trust in more. I liked Kobe White's ability more to get downhill and use his size and be more physical. For sure, I think that's what lean me more his way, but I can understand if people have a man you quickly high because of this money making. That's truly valuable. Dude, a manual quickly shot 39.5%
Starting point is 00:19:33 from three on seven attempts per game in Toronto. That's legit high volume shooting. Only problem is he shot 44% on twos. He was just breaking at the room when he got there. And that's, I think that's uncharacteristically low. I think that'll get better when he gets more used to being a premier guy. That was the biggest
Starting point is 00:19:50 difference is him and Scottie Barnes both had some growing pains at their own shot against, like, tough defenses that really focus in on them, especially getting to the rim from mid-range. I trust that that will get better going in next year. I hope so, man. I hope so. Chris Paul's high.
Starting point is 00:20:06 I respect it, but I want him to be so good next year. Maybe being next to when people will help him really showcase his strengths still because he's still a good passer and whatnot. But, man, he was cooked last year. He looked washed. Well, one thing you can say, you can say positively about Chris Paul is that when he was on the court the warriors were not seismically worse like they usually are whenever step is off the court and that was an that was an issue that he was immediately able to fix because he's just simply one of
Starting point is 00:20:34 the smartest players of all time he's not going to make too many too many mistakes not to not take too many risk and all that and so yes like his decline in athleticism the little athleticism that he had left in his game has completely vanished but just simply making the right reads in that hectic warriors offense in my mind still makes him one of the better point guards in the NBA today. And that's why I just put him to high, especially, and I'm also like factoring what he's going to do in San Antonio next year because we all believe that's going to be like fireworks. Yeah, I hope so, man. I hope he has one more great year and the left of him. Great for his standards, obviously. We're not having all for Chris Fall, walk through those
Starting point is 00:21:13 doors over again. But I hope he could do some. My next five. At 21, I got Jalen Suggs, at 22 Marcus Smart, 23, Mike Conley. 24 de angelo russell and 25 emmanuel quickly now i can be convinced we quickly higher for sure in those i think if we project what we saw in those raptors games and assume he'll get better at some things you struggled with we can project them to be higher for sure but you know we i'm waiting to see how the shot creation against you know number one option type of defenses looks because like i said the two point percentage was terrible there he was throwing up bricks but also that raptors team was very ugly after that trade.
Starting point is 00:21:54 They just had a lot of guys trying to figure out new roles and didn't flow well so I don't entirely blame him but I'm going to give him time to prove it because I think some of the guys above him are just like known commodities and have high floors
Starting point is 00:22:05 especially in the regular season. Interesting. Okay. I don't hate it because I think a lot of our picks are also kind of similar in terms of this tier. The one that, you know,
Starting point is 00:22:20 I'll say that I have high, I have Mike Conley higher then uh then let's just show you wow oh so go ahead and do you i do yeah so i mean i okay here he goes so i've i also have quickly at 25 i have tice jones at 24 um de angela russell at 23 Kobe white at 22 and then jalen sugs at 21 um yeah i wanted i wanted to push jalen sucks high now listen i am consistent that's his guy though i that's his guy yeah i died on the jail Sucks Hill last year. I'm like, yo, you did. I know we say this about anybody, but if this
Starting point is 00:22:54 dude can shoot fucking 35% on the three point line, he's going to transform himself as a player and be viewed as one of the more valuable players in the entire NBA. And he fucking did that. And you were right. You were precisely right. Dude, he did that and more, right? Like, at 21, I feel like I struggle with this a little bit. I struggle with him
Starting point is 00:23:10 versus Marcus Smart. Because they're both some of the strongest defenders of the position. Same guys. This year. I went with him because, like you said, he shot 39.7% from three on 5.1 attempts a game. Just a legit, really good shooter, great cutter, can get to the rim,
Starting point is 00:23:25 just a really smart, valuable player to play next to stars. And, you know, we have a lot, we have a bias towards people that can create with a ball in their hands, but I don't always think that's more valuable because if you're a guy like Marker Smart who can pass a little bit,
Starting point is 00:23:39 do things with the ball, I've come to learn that that's not always more valuable than a guy who can fit next to other ball handlers who are more talented. Smart isn't good enough that you want the ball in his hands, right? you want the ball in John Moran's hands
Starting point is 00:23:51 and Desmond Bain's hands and Deemannetti's hands all these other guys so you want a guy that can really thrive next to him so you want a guy that can really play next to those other stars and I think Suggs feels that role better and that's more valuable to me
Starting point is 00:24:05 when both of them are going to be middle tier as creators so who's going to be the better off ball player and that's way more important to me with Sugs yeah that's that's fair I think we have them at the same spot but it's kind of for different reasons just because I think that when I think about point guard play,
Starting point is 00:24:23 I think about somebody who does like, you know, traditionally have the ball in their hands and can create for others a little bit. And for Suggs, like, I look he, now that I'm looking at it, I do want to put him just a little bit higher because he's just like insane amount of dog in him. Yeah. But like the way, the way that he plays is just crazy. And the way that he defends is wild, I just look at the playoff series that,
Starting point is 00:24:49 that the magic just went through and Suggs is like that you know he's like the the point guard but not really and if the playmaking can take another step I can probably see him like you know rising up this other step he is that's what's I'm saying he's like literally yeah he's up he's up there I think that that's the next step for him and so you can go honestly as high as like 17 for me like if you want to put him in the next tier that's that's fine but yeah he's legit like all defense guy like he's like a Caruso level defender almost like he's really great at that role as being a screen navigator as being a guy who can guard some bigger players like that that defensive value alone can make him top half of this list and I wouldn't be mad at it. Interesting part is you know they signed KCP so you can't really have two non-playmakers at both your guard positions so they're going to really be relying on him to you know become an actual point guard he's listed at point guard I'm ready for point guards he's essentially a shooting guard right Powell's kind of the point guard in traditional sense in half court but they need him to make that leap because if not
Starting point is 00:25:50 they're not going to have enough passing on that starting lineup that's a hundred and ten percent of truth that's the next as the lone person in the jalen sucks fan club that is the next i'm with you though i'm with you here now trance and yeah feel like i'm i'm with you now no listen nobody said you were wrong about it the three point shot comes along he'll be great we just need to see that shit first and we saw it so I'm with you. Jalen sucks is awesome. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:26:20 Who else stands out here? Mo, you have Ty Jones really high. Oh, you both have Ty Jones higher than me. So I guess I'm in the minority there. Yeah, nobody else really talked about this year.
Starting point is 00:26:28 I'm surprised that I have quickly way higher than you guys, to be honest with you. I thought I had him a little bit too well because of the league that you took, fortunately, it was just, yeah,
Starting point is 00:26:38 I don't mind it. It was just the fact that when he did go to Toronto, like stepping into that new role, he still has, like now that that is his job, there's still kind of a another step for him to take there and so I just couldn't I couldn't put him above you know some of the other guys at and I think if I at this point I might reconsider quickly over Delo I think I might flip that if I could do this again I think I kind of convinced
Starting point is 00:27:04 myself and I really thought about it some more so I might be a little bit closer to you like yeah between those two I'm not mad at I'm not mad at it I'm not mad at it Donovan here your next five talk us through this uh here we go so i have jante murray at 20 i have mike connolly at 19 kade cunningham at 18 fred fred van bleat at 17 and darius garland at 16 the biggest thing that's standing out to me is mike conley at 19 that is high 37 38 year old has you on a lease right now and this what is going on between you and mike conley this is what is going on a leash is crazy Wow Hey when did you get that blanket
Starting point is 00:27:51 Where'd that come from? I didn't even see that You done It was on the ground I just got cold How the fuck that blanket Come from All right anyways
Starting point is 00:28:02 So I have Mike Conley at 19 Mike Connolly is Especially when I think about like 20 through 30 You are thinking about Guys who you know Are just role players there are guys who you know you're trying to fit next to other stars how how much can you can you
Starting point is 00:28:21 impact the game off uh you know playing off of off of other high level guys and i feel like mike connolly how many how many teams need a mike connolly how many teams could benefit massively and take another step if they have mike connolly as their point guard rather than whoever that they have right now like if the sons had mike conley they were they would they would be on a on a different level if the pelicans had mike connelly instead of cj mccullum if you had a whole bunch of these other teams having this veteran point guard who can play next to other stars can hit big shots and and can just not mess up and keep things steady they would go so much further and i think that mike connolly slides into so many um systems into the league i'm i'm perfectly okay putting him over
Starting point is 00:29:13 every you know a lot of other guys who are still growing and building their their persona their game and all this other stuff my connolly and it's 19 it's fine like he's still second half of the league but i i like mine connolly a lot mike connolly had a 62% true shooting this year he was absurdly efficient obviously on like low usage so it's not like he was you know it's not as impressive as it might seem but yeah he took his shots he made that motherfucker 45% from three and uh he was And you hate him. And you hate him. I can't put him above Dejante Murray.
Starting point is 00:29:46 That's a bit much for me. But I do think, like I said earlier, there's something to the fact that people have a bias towards like, what can he do with his number one option? What can he do with the ball in his hands? And that's always like the way people view it. And sometimes that doesn't fucking matter. Right?
Starting point is 00:29:59 Sometimes it's, you need to be practical. And there's so much value to knowing the role a player would play. And you know Mike Collin, like you said, playing next on Anthony Edwards, playing as to a cat, being the tertiary guy, he can provide a ton of value in that role. And it's so important to have guys.
Starting point is 00:30:12 in that role like it's not the guys that play the off ball roles aren't inherently less valuable because the balls on their hands like you need those guys you need to Derek white you need to Drew Holiday who can fill that space and provide the utmost value it's like a value of replacement thing where sure Luca Donchich is way more valuable than the average ball handler obviously but some guys are way more valuable than the average role player the average non-ball handler and Mike Colleen is one of those guys yeah I agree I can like not to not to like slander him or whatever but like brain and eager was a fantastic player of course but there's so many teams that
Starting point is 00:30:48 would kindly reject his services because he isn't as yeah exactly because he isn't as like he's not as plug in play you kind of have to deconstruct your entire offense because he is the type of guy who likes to yeah not go within the flow of the offense to create his own flow which just disrupts overall rhythm and mike conley he just flows with it and he helps find exactly it's kind of like yeah it's it's
Starting point is 00:31:16 it's why macaille bridges is more valuable than brand ingram right because he can play off ball can play the game of the stars around him where like where's what you said brandon ingram needs a ball
Starting point is 00:31:24 in his hands I need to play his specific style that makes mackle bridges more valuable and the same reason why Mike Conley is more valuable than say DeAngler Russell
Starting point is 00:31:32 yeah 100% so so shout out Mike Conley wow wow you have VanVleet seven spots higher
Starting point is 00:31:40 than Mo yeah I mean of course of course Van Bleet is good he's a good he's a good player I have
Starting point is 00:31:50 you're right 16 and have Darius Garland 17 Drew Holiday 18 Kunningham 19 Dejante Murray and 20 Fred Van Vleet we're seeing things out of eye
Starting point is 00:32:00 in terms of just same guys in the tier list I like that okay oh yeah we got Cunningham and Garland in the same spot okay and I like
Starting point is 00:32:08 yeah okay this is my hardest range I struggled so mightily with Garland Holiday Cunningham specifically those three I rearranged like five times Think about how different those players are Darius Garland and Kay Cunningham Oh see Darius Garland we've seen
Starting point is 00:32:23 Be an All-Star we know he has a dinoem He's coming off of an unhealthy year Where he really struggled because of injuries So he stocks on an all-time low I tried not to overreact to that But I hadn't moved down a little bit Drew Holiday Coming off of a great year playing a specific role
Starting point is 00:32:36 But so much less is being asked of him than used to So trying to figure out how to balance that and then Cade Cunningham who made a legit improvement this year but is in the worst possible team construction that I've ever seen a point guard being his specific skills you cannot have a worst team to fit around Cade Cunningham than he has right now it's literally impossible to have less shooting around him like by definition they have the worst shooting you could possibly imagine across the roster so how do you balance that and not holding that too far against them which is a really hard trio to gauge yeah I agree it's funny because like you said
Starting point is 00:33:10 Garland, Holiday, and Cunningham, there, we each, we all know how good they can be. They, for all other reasons, for different reasons, of course, they're just not like, they haven't reached their full potential just yet. Garland with the health issues and the Donovan Mitchell Finn drew holiday. Of course, he's good and he didn't necessarily progress or decline. Just playing in a reduced role in Cunningham, he's in basketball hell. And there's nothing that you can say about that other than he's in hell. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:33:36 So I like the order of that personally. It's tough, man. I felt inclined to put Drew Holiday the highest, right? I felt like that was the safest pick is put Drew Holiday above Dary's Garland because, you know, Darius Garland went outside in the playoffs, struggled in the second half of the year after breaking his jaw.
Starting point is 00:33:52 And obviously, Drew Holliday is a champion. Drew Holladies, one of the best defensive guards of all time was in the running for finals MVP for the first few games. Everything on the surface looks like picked Drew Holiday, right? All the indicators are there and not get yelled at. But I just don't want to overact too much to Darius Garland having a, like I said, unhealthy year on a team that has a wonky fit
Starting point is 00:34:11 and whose coach completely lost the locker room couldn't get those players in the right those pieces in the right places this is we know who Dary's Garland is right if we thought he was amazing at 23 and 24 years old we don't got to pretend he's worse now that he's 25 well actually he's younger than that move all those numbers down but you know what I mean like he didn't get worse in his fourth year
Starting point is 00:34:30 yeah okay that's that's fair yeah I mean that's that's yeah that's the same reason why I had Garland at 16 because honestly like I normally think about Darius Garland as one of the better guards in the league in terms of, and specifically being one of the guards, the point guards in the top half of the league. I just had to, I had to knock him down just a little bit just because, like you said, his stock is at an all-time low. But I think, like, for the next three to four years, whenever we do these rankings,
Starting point is 00:35:00 you're going to see Garland closer to like 13, 12 rather than 16. For sure. And they're not going to do it now, but we know we all thought they were going to separate this backcourt if they had done that and traded him away from donovan mitchell he would immediately jump up the list he would if he got traded to the spurs a week ago next year i promise you he would be like he'd be like 11 or 12 on this list he would fly up true i absolutely agree it's all about situations man we got to take that into context who's your five let's see yeah let's see what my five was looking like so at number 20 i have jalen suggs that's where he appears
Starting point is 00:35:34 i had them a little bit higher but not into you know crazy territory and then after that 19 drew Holiday, 18 to Dante Marie, 17, Derek White. Very interesting, right thing. Very, very interesting. He could easily be hired, too. Same thing could be said about Drew Holiday. In that, number 16, I have Kate Cunningham.
Starting point is 00:35:55 So obviously, you're too low. You're too low. You're too low. Obviously, we're Derek White. higher. But you know what? Cade Cunningham versus Derek White. Think about that specific duo, that matchup. Derek White has all the cachet to make you say he's better than him, right?
Starting point is 00:36:10 He's the key part of a championship team and the most dominant team we've seen in years and Cade is on the fucking Pistons riding away. But I don't think Derek White is more talented than Cade Cunningham. Like, it's the best situation versus the worst. That's so tough. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:36:23 Let's see how Derek White looks on the Detroit Pistons. Let's see what his numbers, his efficiency, his assist to turnover ratio looks like. I'd be very interesting. He can get to the rim next to Jalen Duren and Assar Thompson and Jaden Ivy. Let's see if he can dunk some shit with that going on.
Starting point is 00:36:38 Listen, I don't make the rule. I just play the game, all right? Like, it's not my fault that Kay Cunningham is in Detroit. I didn't choose that for him. I would have put him in a better situation. But, like, we're here now, and I know what I see. And from what I'm seeing, Kay Cunningham is just not in a position to where he can fully show all of his talents.
Starting point is 00:36:58 And Derek White is. And so I think that, and even, like, and I mean, you know, we'll talk about it a little bit more later because obviously, like, I've Derek White higher. But you've seen Derek White, even in like this role, you've seen him be able to grow more than what he, than what he has been, even offensively and like the stuff that people naturally gravitate towards in terms of being like to create on his own or knock down big shots. That stuff has also come along as well as his defense being amazing. So like you guys said, he's in a position where he can develop and become a better player. and that just isn't the case for Kate Cunningham.
Starting point is 00:37:38 So sucks to suck, but what's like, we'll get there one day. To me, though, is like last year he was hurt, but this year, of course, he was hurt as well, but he had one of the more healthier seasons out of his three-year career. He somehow, in the worst space, with having the worst basing the league, he somehow got better, got more efficient when it comes to finish at the rim, whether it be his three-point shot or free throw, free throw shot as well. well. And seeing how he's been able to, especially when he came back off, back of his injury during the second half of the year, seeing how he was able to navigate and literally just be the
Starting point is 00:38:17 6766 mismatch point guard that everyone droves over now feels like these days. Pretty impressive. Pretty impressive. Yeah, I feel like we scoff at 22, 7.5 and 4.3 rebounds. Like, we ignored the year he had as if he didn't get better because the pistons were so embarrassing as an organization that he wasn't shooting well from three for the first years of his career and we were like oh oh what does that mean because the three point shot is a big part
Starting point is 00:38:45 of his allure as a prospect this year he's up to 37% on threes excluding garbage time in heaves which I'm looking at cleaning glass that's why it's a little bit higher than his actual average of 35.5 37% excluding heaves pretty good the problem is he can't get to the fucking rim at all
Starting point is 00:39:01 and is that because he doesn't have a lead burst or is because he has zero spacing probably a little bit of both but that spacing doesn't do him any justice oh boo-hoo sorry Cade sorry Cade and like the passing he's a good
Starting point is 00:39:20 passer how do you show it when everybody's in the paint and every time you kick out to the perimeter they're missing the threes like he's gonna go from 7.5 to 8.8 overnight if there's just league average shooting around him Tobias is about to get this man a double-digit assist
Starting point is 00:39:35 every single game. Shout out to my say. Yeah, that's hilarious. So you have Drew Holiday at 19. Obviously, Donovan hasn't been in top 15. I had him at 17. Why is he so low for you? Because I view him in the same range as Jalen Suggs.
Starting point is 00:39:55 Insanely aggressive offensive player. Or insanely impressive defensive player, but the offense is genuinely inconsistent and can be concerning at times now he proved us wrong in the playoffs or in the finals and he was one of the three names that you would select when he comes to picking him as a finals MVP but when i look at him and a season in a totality and just his player archetype and i just know who this dude is i because of his offensive consistency limitations i put dejante d white and cunningham higher because they are other parts of their game i value
Starting point is 00:40:34 more than what Drew Holiday brings. I think the Dejante versus Holiday conversation is exactly what we're talking about with Ingram versus Bridges. Dejante needs that motherfucker in his hands. He needs the rock. He needs to dribble it. He needs to take his mid-range shots, do his ego style of play. He hasn't bought into defense
Starting point is 00:40:50 in years. Whereas Holiday doesn't need that at all. Holiday is perfectly fine, taking three shots in a game, but locking up every single possession on the court, having a head full of steam every single time the ego is on the court on defense, locking up a luke with Don shit and then coming back staying in the corner like this for 10 minutes like he's okay doing the
Starting point is 00:41:08 dirty work and I just think that's so valuable to winning yeah I agree I can agree to that if you wanted to flip those two like I wouldn't care because it's literally just one one spot but I see I see to Dante Murray and I am sick to my stomach for obvious reasons just so I'm got traded from my Atlanta Hawks and I think that if he was in a better situation and position I think we view him a little bit more but more valuable and just more versatile and flexible
Starting point is 00:41:37 I think what we saw yeah what he was on Atlanta it just makes him look a little bit worse than what he actually is dude 100% Dejante and Troy Young
Starting point is 00:41:46 being together just nukes each other's stock they were just at war with each other for ruining each other's reputation like we talk Trey Young is the most hated on player
Starting point is 00:41:53 in the league right now and that didn't start until Dejante Murray walked through those fucking doors and now Dejante Murray is the most people are saying he's an overrated defense
Starting point is 00:42:00 he was never that great that didn't happen until he walked through tra young's doors like they are so bad for each other and now that they're being separated again i try to give him a little credit for that too just a toxic relationship and now now you know they they're they're they're going to break up they're going to get healthy they go into therapy everything's going to be good i like this everybody wins i like this one exactly okay what else do we talk about on this tier i think we're yeah we talk about everybody here anything else to stand out to you guys i just can't believe No, I think I think we're good. And I am sad that I didn't put breath.
Starting point is 00:42:33 Don't disrespect my Connolly, man. Stop disrespect. When did you become the Mike Conley guy? When did you become the Mike Connolly much? I mean, he's textbook. So I can, I see the correlation between him and Donovan. Is Donovan textbook? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:42:49 What does that mean? He likes text. Fundamental players. Players that don't do too much. Yeah, exactly. I guess they don't know about the drop step. We talked about it. They don't.
Starting point is 00:42:59 They don't. they don't understand they don't understand Mike Conley gets it and that's why he gets to my respect you can't hate on it exactly next year
Starting point is 00:43:10 11 to 15 we're getting to the top half of this list if you're still here halfway through comment they don't know about the drop step and Mike Connolly gets it
Starting point is 00:43:19 comment that if you're still here halfway through so at 11 I have Deeran Fox at 12 James Hardin 13 Jamal Murray 14 lamello ball
Starting point is 00:43:29 I almost said Lonzo ball RIP and 15 Derek White What are we thinking Okay, so Lemella ball is that low for For obvious reasons No one needs to say anything Super inconsistent with his health
Starting point is 00:43:44 We did see him make a leap And he was looking like a superstar Because he was really getting to that rim And using his six, seven body But he only played like 20-some games or whatever Can't really Yeah, that's sick Can't really say too much about that.
Starting point is 00:43:58 Only 22 games, man. But yeah, he was definitely looking a lot better this year. In the year prior, in which he only put 36 games, which is disgusting for back-to-back years, he only got to the rim on 23% of his shots. That's not good. That is very poor. Same type of thing as early career Lonzo ball. These guys cannot get to the rim.
Starting point is 00:44:17 But this year, in those 22 games, 32% of his shots at the rim. His efficiency didn't really change there. He's still not great, but he was getting there a whole lot, and that's half the battle. He needed to get the higher volume on top of already being a really good shooter, obviously. Dude, I think Lonello Ball is like The most frustrating player development story in the league right now Him or Zion obviously He could be one of the best guards in the entire NBA
Starting point is 00:44:41 The way that he could be 6-7 can get to the rim Be an elite shooter and elite passer Very few players occupy all those traits It's like him Luca Tyrese Harden I guess a little bit shorter Tyrese like it's a tiny list of the best of the best
Starting point is 00:44:58 best creators I have the full package of the score and a passer with the size. He should be there, but he has had no time to develop his skills because he's played 58 games in two years. That is so frustrating. That's going to do so much harm for his long-term development to lose these early reps that he could be gaining at this young age.
Starting point is 00:45:15 It makes you want to rip my fucking hair out that we're losing what could be like an all-time talent, and he's just his ankles just won't allow it to happen. That big ball of brand program is not legit. That's the that's the That's the one thing LeVar messed up on
Starting point is 00:45:31 It was them ankles It's tough Too much damn Del Taco They love Del Taco How do you guys This was another hard one for me Was Fox Hardin Murray Hardin's very hard to rank right now
Starting point is 00:45:46 There's so much negative biases in your head About James Hardin And how he's like taking a step back But I feel like he bought into that role For sure this year And was like fully deferent To the two star scores he played next to and really bought in as like a passer
Starting point is 00:46:00 who could have this war and pick his own spots he was crazy efficient because he wasn't shooting nearly as often and his passing was excellent and I feel like defensively listen he's James fucking hard and he's never going to be great but I don't think he slacked off like that under Tyler Lou I thought he was completely fine he was competent
Starting point is 00:46:15 I think in this role and especially when you consider the fact that Paul George is gone he's going to get back to being a higher you should score I think we're in for a really big James Harden year I agree it is so hard to first and foremost I want to say Deering Fox should be 11 I think that's a perfect spot for him. But it's so hard to compare and contrast James Hardin and Jamal Murray's game because they're both like utterly different in quite literally.
Starting point is 00:46:40 I don't say the inverse of each other, but like, yeah, like James Hardin gets it started and Jamal Murray finishes it. He doesn't get shit started for real. Exactly. So. I don't know. I generally don't yet. You said Derek White was?
Starting point is 00:46:57 No, Deeran Fox. He had a big. bad year for his standards man you're right he did compared to last movie absolutely he did two years ago dude every year his amount of shots taking at the rim is going down i don't know if he's losing as athleticism at the ripe age of 25 but we go back dude in 2020 42% of his shots came at the rim absurd number just a rim demon next year 33% the next year in his all-star year 29% it's going down every year because he's becoming a better shooter that's fine next year which is 2023 year before this one
Starting point is 00:47:28 24%. Then this year 19% of his shots coming at the rim. That is really bad. And then obviously last year, remember when he made the All-Star game and we were talking about him was like, oh shit, is he like a top eight point guard? He shot 77% at the rim. That's better than Luca. That's better
Starting point is 00:47:45 than LeBron. That's Yonis territory. 77% is ridiculous. It was the highest of any guard by far. This year he'd gotten to 67%. Like in terms of volume and efficiency he did not create the rim like he did before. three point shot was better 37 percent the mid-range shot fell off and you know that was a bit inconsistent when he hit all those ridiculous clutch shots last year to win clutch player the year the year that wasn't quite the same level just a weird down year from him it's it's so weird because he was down in a lot of aspects that make him great and that's what like is his bread and butter that's what he's known for that's his niece get to the rim put people in the fucking blender put him in the basket but yeah you know seeing him improve from the three point line oddly enough I think he shot like seven or eight per game like you said on 38 37% from the three point line that is like that is a real leap that
Starting point is 00:48:32 he made on that end of four when it comes to his off-the-bouncer boom shit like that but it's seeing that rise up while his while what he's really good at take a steep decline kind of nets him out at like the normal deer in fox range where we all think he usually is at and i mean the three-point shot's cool but it's his superpower like even with that three-point advancement he's like a good shooter but he's not like one of the best or anything he is one of the best rim scores when he's looking how he did a year and a half ago so like that is what carries into being in the top 10 ranges like i'm giving him ben for the doubt that maybe that are improved next year by keeping him at 11 and really the biggest thing is 12 13 14 you know all kind of regressed this year in terms
Starting point is 00:49:16 of perception charmaury didn't have his insane playoff performance like he did in the title year james hardin's old as fuck lamello can't stay healthy deering was worse this year but nobody behind him really took a leap to pass him up so I didn't drop him too far but I'm not super encouraged by that because if he's not going to be the best rim scoring point guard outside of Shakedos Alexander
Starting point is 00:49:34 hard for me to view him as like a top end talent interesting okay who's next he's kind of just like Deerran he's basically Dejante Murray if he's not going to have that
Starting point is 00:49:45 it's kind of the similar player his super that's what I'm saying like every player in the NBA needs to have something that they are outstanding at that is how you claim who you are, whether it be honest and his impactful scoring in the paint.
Starting point is 00:50:00 Yokitin is passing, LeBron and the myriad of things that he's just like insane at, stuff with his shooting. Like, everyone has their thing that they're like, nah, I'm one of the best in league when he comes to that. And for Deerran Fox, like no one's going to call him one of the best shooters. It doesn't matter. Like, he gets you 40% of the
Starting point is 00:50:15 three on like eight attempts per game. No one's still going to call him the best shooter in the NBA ever. Yeah. But when it comes to his rim scoring, different conversation. For sure. And listen, maybe there's some other factors maybe he's doing with injuries i don't remember maybe he's not he did do with injuries you are correct about that yeah so you deal with that's one it's not all doom and gloom he could come back and no return to form next year but
Starting point is 00:50:37 noticing exactly sadly i'm next up noticing that he wasn't even the best part on his team for the entire of the year and that says something because that other guy is not that great so next up i have of course d'air and fox at number 11 Jamal murray at 12. At 13, I have Lonzo Ball, or Lamello Ball, 14 James Harden, and 15 Darius Garland. So I think you guys had Darius Garland on the last tier, and I put him above here because I know who Darius Garland is to his core, and
Starting point is 00:51:11 I know his superpowers and all the things. One spot ahead of us. Yeah. But other than that, I think we have, it looks like me and you, Isaac, have the same tier of players just jumbled up a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, you viewed, I think we view Darius Garland in the same way as you do. We just put Derek White higher because we really value him being like the best role player in the league and you didn't. So that's the only difference there is that we put Derek White up higher. Otherwise, we view Darius Garland exactly the same, I think.
Starting point is 00:51:38 So I'm glad to see it. Darius Garland is getting way too much hate. He needs to be respected. I agree. Listen, the respect, it's going to happen, right? When he gets healthy again, he's going to be fine. It's on the way. But right now, listen, sometimes you got to go through stuff.
Starting point is 00:51:54 So he'll be right. People treat him as Pablo Brigioni. It's not all right. Oh my God. Yeah, I don't hate Mosulis. Okay, this is pretty much in line with mine. Let's look at the next one that we can discuss more. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:52:08 All right. So I have Drew Holiday at 15. I've Carrie at 14. Derek White at 13. Jamal Murray at 12 and James Hardin at 11. And this would not be a TD3 list. If one of us didn't leave somebody off the list, And Lamella ball, accidentally.
Starting point is 00:52:27 Didn't I miss my lips? I thought he did it on purpose. It was accident. No, I, no, I completely forgot about, listen, Lamella has not played in the last two years. I forget what it looks like watching him play basketball. I think, I think now, now, he wouldn't be on this tier. I think I would have Lamello at like 16, though.
Starting point is 00:52:49 Okay. Just because, I thought that he was so injured that you were doing it as a bit. that you were like listening is not available ever so he's not on my list ever no no no but yeah he would be in like that garland um yeah and like that garland at 15 16 just because i truly don't know if like going forward if you have this young player that you are trying to build around if he's going to be available and like he could be a step curry your ankles can eventually get better and you can be healthy i'm not sure if that's going to happen but as for 11 through 15 like drew holiday role player
Starting point is 00:53:23 demon right Kyrie at 14 Derek White again that's the issue right there why no let's not
Starting point is 00:53:33 beating around the bus here what oh my goodness why is Kyrie Irving at number 14 ahead of Derek white you think
Starting point is 00:53:40 Derek White has you think James Harding is currently better than Kyrie Irving crack cocaine permethazine
Starting point is 00:53:47 Jamal Murray's better than Kyrie Irving they're the same type of player you'd rather have Jamal Murray than Kyrie? Yes, I would. What? You're lying. Oh, my God. Why? I'm being a hundred percent real. I'm being a hundred
Starting point is 00:54:01 percent rule. I think that, listen, now for for Jamal, if you want to move him down to 13, right, where you guys had him, that's fine. I think, I think that Jamal is the premier case of why you have to be like very cautious about the playoff risers, because if you go a year when they don't rise in the playoffs, then it gets to be kind of crazy. But I do think that Jamal Murray, he was dealing with an injury throughout the playoffs. He had the gap stuff. But even still, he had the ability to shoot four for 15 throughout the first three quarters. And then all of a sudden, five minutes left on the clock.
Starting point is 00:54:38 And that Jamal Murray is like, okay, yeah, I'll just hit three out of four shots. And I'm going to hit two game winners in a series. And I'm going to do all this. And it's going to be fine. I think that Kyrie, we're seeing the best version of him. and throughout the playoffs we saw him lock in and play defense Kyrie also was very inconsistent and the finals for the finals
Starting point is 00:55:00 the finals for Kyrie the road games awful if you want to just put that off on hey he's going back to Boston it's a tough place to play he has all that history he was just in his head okay fine how do you explain the two series before that where he's scoring nine points in games he's not he's not being you know the most talented back court of all time we were saying that and you were one of the people who was pushing back on it because karee's not he's not like you know he's not scoring 25 every night the same way that some of the other guys are and i think that now
Starting point is 00:55:36 that he's playing next to luka you know who is one of the best players in the league now he's back in his second you know in his second tier era and that's fine but i'd rather have i'd much rather have Derek White on my team think I rear ring I'd rather have I'd rather I'd rather I'd rather have James Hardin James Hardin again I already know nobody's going to slander him more than me but for what Isaac said wow for for what Isaac said the fact that he was able to go to LA and buy into everything that that they were doing we've seen him over the last three years completely say hey I'm not the James Hardin of old I'm not going to be able to go out and get you 30, but I can still come in and facilitate the offense and I will willingly
Starting point is 00:56:23 take a step back. And I think that there is something to be said for that. And that's why I have James Hardin still as a very impactful player. I think that the Clippers are just cursed and they have Paul George and Kauai who also aren't healthy. And that's also a big reason why they couldn't make it out the first round. But there's James Hardin is he's still really, really good. Okay. So if you're starting a team today, you're a GM, you have a number one overall pick. all right and it comes to your time you're an expansion team or whatever you're taking Derek White over Kyrie Irving right now
Starting point is 00:56:54 yes yes wow I am with a straight face I am wow listen okay I get it if you're gonna go on a stance that chiro ring is going to be inconsistent so you don't want
Starting point is 00:57:09 them you're probably going to age into being right given the track record so I understand you it's it's not the worst to hill to pick You know, like, history is shown if LeBron's not on the team, you're going to age into being right. So I get it. But, again, we know
Starting point is 00:57:26 Kyrie Irving can't be the best player on a championship team. None of these guys in this role can, right? And I also think it's been proven that if he's the second option and everything clicks, he doesn't tweet out any links to controversial subject matter. He doesn't get himself banned from Barclays Arena for controversial decisions.
Starting point is 00:57:46 Nothing like that. goes down, he's going to be the best second option you can want in a score from a score next to a star player, right? In 2021, if all that shit didn't happen, they probably would have walked to the finals. Last year, they were in the finals. Like, that means something. And obviously they lost to Derek White, so maybe pulling out resume. It's not the best thing to say. But, you know, he played really well last year, and I know he was inconsistent in the playoffs. That inconsistency is why he's 14. And that's, I mean, I'm 14. That's why he's like in the late tens and not like up higher, right? Because if he was consistently,
Starting point is 00:58:17 the best version of Kyrie Irving that he would be a top five point guard in the league we just know he's not so that's kind of baked into it and that's why he has to be the second option usually players have to be second options because they can't be consistent against topping coverages
Starting point is 00:58:28 that's like the biggest difference so I still think that Nets him out in like 9 or 10 range it feels disrespectful to a ceiling to put him at 14 when we know that the good comes with the bad for Derek White though like you talk about putting
Starting point is 00:58:41 Kyrie next to another you know another point guard like the the level to which Derek White can complement another guard like a Kyrie Irving like a lot of a lot of the top guards it's very hard for them to be number one on offense number one on defense guarding the other point guards if you have Luca or Steph or Jalen Brunson or Jaya or Trey or any of these guys who are higher up on this list they are not defensive stoppers and if you say hey we're going to have that guy who can create all the offense and then as our number two we're
Starting point is 00:59:16 going to put Derek White, who can, who can cover their man and still give you 16 to 17 and still make, uh, you know, still have a, a pretty, you know, solid playmaking. That back court would be more valuable and that back court would be better suited to make a, to make a deeper run. It's great. Listen, if you can get Luca who is six, seven and Kyrie, that's, that's, that's crazy. But a lot of the other point guards are not. And so if you have Kyrie and another one of the other point guards, you have a better version of, you know, of DeMitch and Darius Garland or Dame and CJ and you have a very high offensive ceiling, everybody else has to be a defensive stopper. You have, you put so much defensive pressure on everybody else on your team that I think that Derek White being in that back court helps you build a more well-rounded team. I respect Derek White because if you want to, if the hill you're dying on is that you want the guy that's a two-way player and that is just like doesn't need the ball in his hands.
Starting point is 01:00:12 I respect that same logic we had for like Drew Holiday being high and stuff like that Don't have a problem with that that's fine That's just a difference in what you want from a role player or you just rather You just rather Jamal Murray be the one that he's above instead of Kyrie Yeah like I don't see the logic with Joe Murray there then Derek White I disagree on Derek White but I get that perspective of player be more valuable to you I feel like Jamal Murray and Kyrie are in the same exact type of player and like said the playoff riser thing is dangerous
Starting point is 01:00:42 I'm coming to realize the playoff riser thing is hard because I am realizing that sample size is super important that we had a 15 game stretch with Jamal Murray went nuts next year that didn't happen he was you know
Starting point is 01:00:55 he was cold worse than his you know regular season averages hard to give someone too much credit for small sample sizes and we do that too often in playoff risers I think I kind of like
Starting point is 01:01:05 and that's what I think for me like because I think even after last year like I was a little bit hesitant, but I wanted to put Jamal Murray higher. And so coming into this ranking, I feel like putting him at 12 was dropping him a little bit for me because of like the playoff stuff.
Starting point is 01:01:23 But even whenever, but even whenever he wasn't having a good game, he was still able to do the Jamal Murray playoff stuff where he can still close. And that, that to me was like, was good. Whereas with Kyrie, if it was bad and if the shots off, like, The shots off for the entire game, where Jamal Murray still has a little bit of hope where he could do the playoffs of. So that's kind of why I had him at 12. If you want to, if we want to put Derek White at 11, right, above, above, above Jamarie, I'm fine with that. I'm completely okay.
Starting point is 01:01:59 Oh, my gosh. If we, yeah, if I thought about it for like two more hours, I might get Derek White into 11. Wow. That was the complete opposite of what we're trying to do. Derek White thing is hard because listen people were trying to put him in all-star combos last year and I get it
Starting point is 01:02:14 He's not there he's not there He's the best at his role But it's really easy to gas a player in that role When they just have so much less pressure on them And again I tried to realize That supplementary players matter And there's value there But there is something to our expectations
Starting point is 01:02:28 Of a player in a Derek White rule versus a player in a higher role Derek White had some stinker games In the finals where he was not hitting shots Nobody gave a fuck Because he's the third and fourth option And he has no pressure on him to perform all we're doing is busy slandering
Starting point is 01:02:41 Jason Tatum slandering Kyrie Irving who carries that bigger load like we gotta keep in mind that Derek White's job is a lot easier and it's very easy to gloss over when he doesn't play well Well look even the guys White goes ahead and he gets a block Always standing up clapping or he hits he goes ahead
Starting point is 01:02:57 And hits a clutch bucket after not Scorn for like the last 15 minutes of the game Like there we go He's a timely player He's a timely player You know what I'm saying And also and also there's guys there's guys even in the top 10 that I look at and I recognize that right now
Starting point is 01:03:14 you're not a number one on a championship team so I think for anywhere from like 13 to eight maybe even pushing seven it's okay if you aren't the number one and so now we start talking about how are you as a complimentary player and some of them you know they're 1B 2A whatever you want to call it and they are like a level above but listen Derek White is he's just good man he's he's just good yeah listen it's hard that there's always bias to the most recent champion too it's always hard not to put the guys on top of high so there's definitely a lot of reasons to put Derek white high right now just like there was last year put Jerome Murray like top 10 or whatever like yeah it's hard not to ride that high when you just
Starting point is 01:03:56 saw a guy win at the highest level thanks I see it and I completely understand but then again like this is the same guy who just average like 13 points and you saw like 38% from the field Like I see what he's doing and was still clans and was and was still a better defender than every point guard on this list. No fair not fair the defense not not named joll and yeah the defense gets him value when the shot doesn't fall that somebody like hardin or kairri or jemalm murray just don't have that crutch i absolutely agree but hardin and kary don't have the crutch of having jason satem jennon brown drew hollad and kp and all them boys so it's like i i see the value that he's that he's producing but i also. see the value around him as well that makes his value look even like crazier to how Donovan's perspective seeing him do your job do your do your job I think like that's also another big thing we're like yes yes the and I mean we're listen we see it with everybody it really is a sliding scale for how we grade every player but starring in your role and thriving in your role
Starting point is 01:05:01 if I know that Luca is this you know generational other work worldly talent. Yes, I'm going to ask you to do some things that I'm not going to ask of Deer and Fox. And you're just going to have to do it because that's who you are. Like, you just have to do your job. And I think that being able to go from situation to situation and still having the ability to do your job, that's also very impactful. And it can help a lot of the other 30 teams. And if you put Derek White, if you take them off of Boston and you put them in anywhere else, if you dropped them in Detroit, Detroit would be a better team. If they had Derek White. Obviously, I'm not saying that he's going to come in and make them a 45 win
Starting point is 01:05:41 team, but they would be better. And you might have, and you might, and you might see, and if he was playing with Kay Cunningham, you might see Kay Cunningham being in, in, you know, the top 15 rather than in the 18, because we know that he might be better. Like, he just, he elevates a lot of other floors. You can say the same exact thing about Kyrie Irving, put him in alongside Kayman. Wow, he gets better. I don't know. I don't know. I think I know that. I think I know for a fact he'd make the Pistons a lot better. I don't know. They would lose more games.
Starting point is 01:06:10 I don't know. They would lose war games. He's no Jaden Ivy. Exactly. He's not he's not Jaden Ivy. That is true. Moe, tell us you six to ten. Rolling into six through ten.
Starting point is 01:06:25 All right. So number six, I got Trey Young, seven, Tyrese, eight, Damien Lillard, nine, Tyrese Halliburton, and 10, Kyrie Irving. Okay. This is a most of this range wasn't too hard for me, except for Damien Lillard. Ranking Dame is tough right now. And you put him above Tyrese Hallibur. That that surprises me. I was trying to give Dame credit for some of the reason he's head about guys like Darius Garland and whatnot that
Starting point is 01:06:52 tries to overreact to one off year, but also he's 34. So maybe it's how do we gauge is this off year of Dame because he's getting old or because he was sad and out of shape living in Milwaukee? Doc Rivers said he was on telotubby timing and I leaned to towards more of that one I saw him in the playoffs giving folks like 35 in the first half back-to-back games it's like all right yeah this dude and then what did he score for the rest of the game we're not talking about that right now you know what I'm saying like how do you start how do you start with 35 and then you scored 35 in the first quarter you end the game with 35 points like come on come on that is nuts but yeah I I'm inclined to give dame at least one more year He'll get used to playing with Janus a little bit more.
Starting point is 01:07:39 They'll have a full year of offseason under Doc Rivers. He'll be in better shape. I believe he'll look better next year. I also won't be surprised if he's just getting old and he's small and he loses a step and it gets tough. I can't. I say to say, I can't put him above Tyrese Halliburton. Really? Okay.
Starting point is 01:07:57 The only reason why I put him above Tyrus Halliburton is because, okay, if you have real questions about Dean Miller's health and old age getting up there, fair. that's fine but i think it's fair to go ahead and also assume because of the glimpses that we've seen through him whether it be whenever janus was off out of the court and not playing looks like a completely different player that's what i buy into damey and lord and that's for tyrus halber and where i dock him at i think he has real issues when it comes to getting to the rim and also having more unpredictability to his scoring like the stepback three is nice uber valuable and he because of that in this passing like he's already one of the best offensive guards in the entire NBA.
Starting point is 01:08:38 But what are you going to do when the defense takes that back from you? What are you going to do when you have to get a little bit more creative and use that like big body frame? He has all the gifts and talents of the world. He just hasn't reached that level just yet. In November, we were saying Tyrese Albertan has cracked into the top five. I don't think that anymore because obviously we know he got hurt and slowed down, he never reached those heights.
Starting point is 01:09:00 And I agree with everything you just said. The lack of variability of scoring punch shows. and that's why I reconsidered that and I put him lower like you did I have him around the same range that has to change but also he's closer to six than he has the 10 to me
Starting point is 01:09:13 because I think it's hard to understate how valuable his playmaking is they were in the conference finals for a reason they were the most high powered offense all year that could not be stopped and a part of that is a system the way the talent all around works together well major part of that is Tyre's Halliburton's ability
Starting point is 01:09:29 to lead the team as a playmaker and keep the ball moving and really put people in positions he's a really gift of pastor that gets that is like taken for granted a little bit that we kind of just like treat him like his assist or like system assist when I don't really think that's the case I agree I think that he's in I actually I actually forgot where I know I put him above nine so I forget where I had him but I do think that I had him closer to six than ten well let's see next up donovan here's your list I have dame at 10 Deeran fox at nine Maxi at 8 Halliburton at 7 Tray Young at 6 I'll just
Starting point is 01:10:08 mine too I have Tray Young at 6 Halliburton at 7 Maxi at 8 Dame at 9 and Kyrie at 10 Hmm Wow
Starting point is 01:10:17 We and Donovan are the same In the top 3 We are We and you both have Kyrie at 10 because we don't hate him And yeah
Starting point is 01:10:23 We have Liller at 8 9 and 10 We all split it there Yeah it's tough Like Maxi versus Liller was a tough spot for me I feel fine
Starting point is 01:10:32 putting Tyrese one spot above Maxi. I first I had Lillard above Maxi by one spot, but I flipped the last second. And I can't really tell you why. I don't know. I guess I'm just scared that maybe Dame's getting old. That's why I think. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:10:48 I agree. I think there's nothing that you can go ahead and go against that because age is age. It catches up to everyone. Dame Miller still will be. And also if you're just going based off of what Tyrese Maxi did and how he made serious leaps to like solidify. himself as a real star player can be a go-to guard on offense won't bog you down and has the creativity and has been building into his in-between game to really add that versatility to his offense
Starting point is 01:11:14 i'd be fine with that my only problem is whenever joel and b got hurt and max had to be the one option he was substantially worse and to be expected he's a not at that point of his development yet where he can be the lead creator but also i don't know if i should hold that against him or just notice the fact that the Sixers roster outside of Joel and Bede was fucking horrible and that team was awful without him like maybe it's not his fault that he couldn't cook with Kelly Ubrein to buy his hairs next to him like that that's a tough team environment to succeed in this man had Nick Batum and Paul Reed and was like all right guys is it says three tonight like yeah that's that's that's tough that's tough for Tyrese but yeah I think I think I think I'm kind
Starting point is 01:11:59 of out on dame um as as far out as you can be still having them in your in your top 10 just just because we've seen over the last couple years last year wasn't the first time that we've seen dame have physical stuff like kind of a hell him two years ago he had he had a very you know injury riddled season um whether it was the it was the year that he was coming back or that the whole league was coming back from from the bubble the weird like 21 season that year was cut short because because of injuries he went in and played in the Olympics that also like he wasn't the same because of injuries he dealt with that in 22 and whether he's old whether he's hurt or whether his style of play just doesn't fit with another star that way like that's also kind of
Starting point is 01:12:48 kind of crazy that you think of dame as like diet step and this other you know very rangy shooter who can play off a very talented big and this one two game is going to be the most dominant in the league and neither of them could figure it out and I blame that on dame and I also blame it on yannis as well but it's just it's a little weird I'm looking at the situation and as we you know get further into the offseason I'm probably going to say it a lot but I'm not very high on milwaukee going into next season because I don't know if dame and yonis are going to be able to figure it out and I don't know if dame is going to be able to rise to that occasion the same way that we've seen him do you know in years past so it might be it might be done for dame yeah
Starting point is 01:13:32 it's tough dame's amazing and like in the right situation prime dame couldn't like get you to a finals but he's not a traditional player that you look at and be like you know the way we talk about it you got to have a top five player in the world to win a championship you know that typical talking point he's not quite at that level so if he can't fit next to one of those top five guys that's hard for his value. Because, you know, Kyrie, for all his flaws, has shown that he can, he's malleable. He can play next to Kevin Durant, LeBron James, Luke Donchitz, James Hardin,
Starting point is 01:14:04 even Jason Tatum and Jane O'Brien at one point, which is less successful there. But, you know, he can play with other guys that need the ball in their hands and can succeed at doing the things he does to an even better level. That doesn't really destroy his value. If it does prove that that destroys Danes value, like let's say they do another year of this and doesn't fit next to the honest, but then they trade him and he
Starting point is 01:14:22 does well again by himself, then that just means he's not portable and can't fit next to star players. And if you don't have that scalability in your game, then it'll hold your value back. You know what Dame Miller has in his game, though? He has a rap video on YouTube that he posted eight years ago that has 3.5 million views titled Bigger Than Us. All right. He has features on features on features. He has bars. He has Spotify plays, thousands of monthly listeners. Does Tyrese maxi have that? No, not really how many of those streams are how many of those streams are real and how many of them are bought like he's been he's been getting paid max contract money for years. I know that he has access to the streaming farms. I know that all those thousand dimes jump and dimes you don't remember that that was a classic no no nobody remembers that that's the problem. That's awful. Did y'all know that Hulu has light sports?
Starting point is 01:15:24 Oh man, he was swimming. I hated that. And I go like, he got me to get Hulu after that too. He's susceptible to marketing. I love that we all have Trey Young at six. Again, people, he's so hated on because him and DeJante Murray don't fit. And it's tanked their reputation around the league. The team isn't confident around him.
Starting point is 01:15:45 They have not done a good job building a supporting cast. He's never had an all-star. everything has gone wrong there and it's been attributed to Trey Young as if it's his fault like he's this on-court cancer and it's fucking dumb he's so taken for granted it's not so people say like
Starting point is 01:16:00 it's easy to score in this era and easy to be more proficient offensively because of spacing and whatnot so it's like people will just assume that anybody can go out there and average 30 and 10 for their career like he does that's just not easy like he is one of the best offensive talents we've seen in the league in the last decade and we just forget about it because we don't like him
Starting point is 01:16:17 Shout out, Trey, he's free now. Oh, yeah, he's free from the John T. Murray for sure. In a similar light where, like, we've seen James Harden just glitch out the game and just figure things out and no angles like that specifically. Trey Young's done a very similar thing. Obviously not to those levels because James Hardin's quite literally all time, one of the greatest of all time. And Trey Young's just 6'1 and he's like 170 soaking wet or whatever. But with that being said, the combination of D.E. range shooting the fantastic passing being one of the five seven best passes in the entire
Starting point is 01:16:54 NBA while also making real visual improvements defensively lands event number six very comfortably from him happy y'all had him above Tyrese Halliborne because try young is the the amount of buckets that he gets forcefully at such a tiny frame was so impressive to me yeah listen we were we were Everybody was big in up Tyrese Halliburton early in the season because he was averaging 27 points for game on ridiculous efficiency with his passing. And that was so impressive because he was doing what Trey O'Ong already does,
Starting point is 01:17:27 but he's also 6'6. So it was like a little bit less potential negatives there. Now, we've all come to accept that he's also a cone, so that doesn't give him the advantage there that we once thought maybe. But Trey Young's already doing that and he doesn't have to deal with the fall off that Tari's Halliburton had the second half of the year.
Starting point is 01:17:42 So if we're going to appreciate Tire's Halliburon when he was at that peak, we have to realize that Tray Young's already there so there's no reason to put him above him. Absolutely. The hate for Tray Young is that range. I remember the GMs around the league or whatever, like listed the most overrated player in the entire NBA and it's
Starting point is 01:17:57 Trey consistently finds himself up there in that range. Last year was number one, I believe. It's so crazy to me. Like it's it's so... I think players are these type of narratives, probably that too, but these type of narratives shift so easily like one good year. Let's say Rishi comes in and he looks like a star.
Starting point is 01:18:13 He has like a Jason Tatum where he year where he's immediately valuable and provides value as a role player and then they're suddenly like a 46 win team and they turn it around without Adjante
Starting point is 01:18:22 the Trey Young conversations will immediately disappear where immediately be like oh yeah he's actually amazing like the narrative like that are so lazy I 110% agree can't wait to see that happen next year
Starting point is 01:18:33 dude after 2021 when they made the conference finals he was consistently being ranked as like a third best point guard in the league that year I remember my first time ever talking to Donovan I hopped on RIP the two main game and I was like yeah I'd rather that train on my team than
Starting point is 01:18:50 Kevin Durant why because he's a fucking offensive engine it was fresh off of that and Donald was like bro fuck this guy one of our first shorts is you say Tray Young's a better offensive player than Kevin Durant that's hilarious yeah legendary I mean let's move on in the top five we're here for the top this actually might be the fastest one because I don't think we have much disagreement here's all of them at once I have Luca Donchich Shea Gildes Alexander Steph Curry
Starting point is 01:19:17 Jalen Brunson Jem's a hater Smaid's a hater How do you put Brunson at 5 Oh Moe Wow Yeah Okay
Starting point is 01:19:27 Mo has Luca Curry Shea Jha and Brunson And then Donovan has Luca Shay Curry Brunson Jha So a very small differences here Yeah So obviously
Starting point is 01:19:38 Actually me in the same That you realize Yeah you and Donovan Yeah, you and Donovan quite literally the same. Lockstep. Where we differentiate is me and my beliefs in Curry and not looking at the all-time shitter that they've put around him and how they fumbled and whittled away his, the last few years of his prime.
Starting point is 01:19:55 Meanwhile, in OKC, views are, they are up right now. And it's a completely different story. And as for, you know, John Morant, it's so easy to go in and put Brunton ahead of him concerning what Brunson did, having one of the greatest playoff friends of all time at that size. Fantastic. Truly remarkable. Donovan, get your hand off of your face, bro. You look weird. You look weird. I can understand putting much. Get that yam off your face. I actually think drama ran. I think this time next year, I'll end up
Starting point is 01:20:37 higher again. I just had to give Brunson credit, man. After what he just did, like, Donovan said the last pod, at least for the summer, Jalen Brunth was the top four point guard in the league. Coming up what he just did, he's earned it. Will he be able to hold on to that above Jaws? Who's probably going to come back and be a top two seat next year with the Grizzlies being healthy? I don't think so. I think John's probably going to prove you better long term, but you got to give Janlon Brunson credit for the way he's elevated. The way he's gone from, you know, six man to good starter to high level starter. with the Knicks to All-Star
Starting point is 01:21:09 to holy fuck this guy's all-NBA level fit on the MVP ballot the way he just keeps leveling up and finding ways to improve his game and also all the negatives we had once said about him where we were saying he's too small they can throw doubles at him in a playoff setting they're going to eliminate a scoring because he's not a good passer all this
Starting point is 01:21:25 yada yada wrong the way he's proved all of that wrong they threw all the coverages in the book at him in the playoffs and that shit did not matter he found a way to you know reject the double teams and get away from it and get to his game regardless the scoring never once dipped he played 48 minutes a game average 40 points a game it was ridiculous like it was truly high level stuff that you only see for the best players in the world and i don't
Starting point is 01:21:48 know if you can do that ever again because that was like a generational run maybe he'll never reach that hide again it's very hard to do that all i can do is fucking clap my hands and say do you get the credit for this year and hopefully what you're saying i love it hopefully he never has to do that again like brunson was put in that position because it everybody was hurt. Now you're coming back. OG's going to be healthy. You have Mikhail Bridges, Julius Randall's going to be back.
Starting point is 01:22:14 Hopefully you are not looking at Jalen Brunton saying, I need you to take 37 shots tonight to get us to win. But again, the floor that Jalen Brunson was able to keep the Knicks at, and even whenever they were playing games with precious Achua and like you had just these terrible, terrible lineups, even in like February when everybody was hurt, to keep them afloat and to keep the Knicks fighting towards the second seed in the east is also crazy. So I think, of course, top four, I want to put Steph at two. I really, really did.
Starting point is 01:22:54 But for the same reason, like, I dropped Kay Cunningham down to 18 because it's not my fault that his situation sucks and it's not my fault. It's not, it's not my fault. I'm not like, again, I didn't, if it was my choice. I would give Steph the best team, right? I would give him a great team. But I love, I love Steph. But there's also just a little bit of decline from him.
Starting point is 01:23:16 And Shea is just so consistent. He's able to score at the rim at will. He's able to get to his spots in the mid-range at will. He's legitimately impactful on both ends of the floor. Like, Shea has risen to a level of two-way dominance. I don't that's yeah that's probably
Starting point is 01:23:37 I don't know that's a word word but like two way right yeah just great just great two way play
Starting point is 01:23:43 that the rest of the other three guys they're amazing they're not two way the way that Shay is
Starting point is 01:23:49 and then Luca's Luca's so we can put him out one She was the best perimeter player in the playoffs last year I think
Starting point is 01:23:55 and I don't feel that bad saying it obviously brensen did a volume thing right She didn't have
Starting point is 01:24:00 to shoot that much volume and shout out Brunson being able to carry that type of load it's crazy I'm not
Starting point is 01:24:05 necessarily going to say he's better did better because of that. Shea was incredibly efficient didn't drop at all. People had some questions because I know everyone was kind of hating on them last year of like listen we've never seen Shea do this in the playoffs as a star can he do it is he going to get the free throw calls yada yada he looked exactly the same he's doing the regular season got his efficient 30 points per game defended well you know Luca wasn't healthy so his efficiency wasn't there for a lot of the run not his fault she played better than jason Tatum, I'll tell you that. Luca was healthy, like I said.
Starting point is 01:24:33 He played better than Brunton, I think. Like, I don't really, I'm moving Shea above Curry rather than I am moving Curry down. I think Shay has earned it. Two years of all NBA first team. Second on the MVP ballot. Legitimately very good defender.
Starting point is 01:24:49 Playoff proof score that we thought in theory would work. It showed itself in practice. Curry, in the end of the last season, had a very cold stretch, especially from three, that I think was in large part that he just had no help around him. and he really struggled athletically, I think,
Starting point is 01:25:03 to continue to make something out of nothing and deal with these really tough on-ball coverages. I just feel like he lost a slight step and that showed itself. I have a feeling that'll look better next year when the team looks a little bit better, hopefully, and maybe it's just, you know, small sample size. He just has a better year.
Starting point is 01:25:20 I just, I don't know how I could put Curry above Shay right now without it being biased. Yeah, I know how I can go ahead and do so. I see Curry and I see his insane. Superpower, which is obviously him shooting out of the gym every single night. And now something to revert back to like Shea, I 110% agree with you guys. I cannot have a case against him whatsoever. I can just talk up Curry in this instance right here.
Starting point is 01:25:48 When I look at Shay, I think like, yo, is this dude just like the point guard version of Hawaii Leonard? Because that's what quite literally feels like he's automatic from midrange, strong as hell, super deceiving. and also you can't stop him when he comes to his finesse and how coordinated he is with his moves. But for some like Steph Curry, I mean, I think it's easy for him to look like he's lost a step athletically when you have the John the Comingas of the world playing with you pods, Clay Thompson looking like the way he did last year. He clearly lost several steps. And just the offense really just, you have nothing really but just like a bunch of shitters around you, you know? I agree.
Starting point is 01:26:24 great. Steve Kerr was fighting for his goddamn life looking fine, finding, clawing for some form of identity. Benching Kavon Lutie, starting Draymond Green, starting Chris Paul. Like there was no types of consistency whatsoever. But for sure over there, life was great.
Starting point is 01:26:40 You didn't know necessarily what you had in Chetting Day one, but the first five games that he played, you had everything set in stone for you and all the players. Sam Presti, the entire organizations, the janitors, the towelboys. Everybody watches your every single move and they cater to you they know how hot he likes his showers they know how
Starting point is 01:26:59 much gatoray he likes in his cup they know where he likes his socks place bro they know everything about say but for step bro they can't even wipe him before you know i could definitely see currie proving this wrong and having one or two more years of like clearly being top two here it's just tough man like you said the team put him in the worst position to succeed as an aging point guard like they're making his life hell like brandon pejemsky clay thompson and and Kaminga is not a complimentary trio to what he needs to perform well. Like, it's very tough on him.
Starting point is 01:27:30 But, like, I don't see it getting easier either. And I think it's going to continue to be hard. And he might just be past the age where he can do a 2021, 2021, 22 stuff where he can just, like, succeed despite that. Remember that year they were terrible and he averaged like 31 points per game because he just got it out of the mud
Starting point is 01:27:45 regardless of how difficult it was. Yeah. That might just be past us. That's tough. That's tough. But also, he doesn't take that much step. back. He's still amazing. So I'm not mad at putting him at two at all. I don't want to make it sound worse than it is. It's not like, I'm way more concerned about Lillard's age than I am
Starting point is 01:28:01 Curry's. Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. It's really just about Shay doing that guy. And I can't, I can't be mad at it because he's truly ascended and he deserves that crown. He's done absolutely nothing. Okay, she's shortcomings has nothing to do with him. It was more so about their roster construction in guys like J-dub, second year natural, just not being 100% there yet and ready to be that good backline defense offensively or whatever and shea is just like he's certified like you said i said a couple years ago before we knew they were like that and they won like 40 games of josh giddy on that team you said like this dude might be fucking bulletproof he quite literally proved that theory he's bulletproof exactly yeah and listen i i think
Starting point is 01:28:44 they're going to be in the finals coming year and might win it barring good health so pretty soon i think she will have answered every question needed from him first it was can he be in one option Can he be a star? Then it was can he do win the playoffs the highest level against elite defenses. Then it's can he win a championship. He's going to one by one. And I think next year is going to be the year that he really solidifies himself as like clearly a top five player, like without a doubt by getting to that finals. This is Shay's time. We're here. Oh my God, bro. That's sick. So you're telling me that Shay has Alice Caruso as a defender, Lou Dort, Jalen Williams, Chet Hungram. All right, went ahead and drafted Nicola Topich and all that shit.
Starting point is 01:29:23 And how does Mike Dunley v. Jr. respond? I got one buddy heels for you. Kyle Anderson. I got him for you, bro. Tough scene. What are we? How are we doing here? We got the splash step brother and buddy hill
Starting point is 01:29:36 coming in the door. We'll see if you can fix him. Not even step. That brother was adopted. He does not look like them. What are we talking about here? Yeah, man, that's our rankings. Pretty good.
Starting point is 01:29:51 I think the point guard rankings are typically the easiest one. and yeah I like this I think the coming weeks will be a lot more debating in these this one was pretty chill don't explain
Starting point is 01:30:00 that the last yeah not at all this is the easiest one for sure because it's already set in stone and the tiers are more clear than ever when it comes to this
Starting point is 01:30:08 this is probably also would you guys say this is the deepest position in the league I actually when I was looking at this I kind of feel like the depth isn't as good
Starting point is 01:30:16 as it once was like I mentioned that 11 to 15 range with James Hardin Lamello Ball and a Who's that the name there I said earlier Jamal was a Jamal Murray
Starting point is 01:30:26 And Jamal Murray with those guys not really being super Impressive this year Kind of feel like this isn't that strong of a year for point guards I said I still strong it's so strong it's so strong Because I remember like Yeah I remember last year The fact that like Darius Garland could be The 16th best point guard in the league
Starting point is 01:30:47 Is still like yeah Now this this position is crazy You're right you're right it is still should be deep And compared to other positions, it's still probably the deepest one. But there was a point a few years ago, like when Chris Paul was elite, Damien Lurd was unstoppable, James Hardin, unstoppable. Like we had an era of point guards that was like utterly ridiculous. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:31:06 Yeah, not going to lie to you, Kyle Lari was over here putting up like 17. Kyle Lurie, flapping his big ass everywhere. Mike Coney was really hooping, giving folks like 20, 19, 17 consistently back when he was in our first year, Utah, but late years in the Memphis Grizzlies. John Wall was over here throwing gang signs, yelling at. And now we're going far back. Listen, take me back. The thing about the old days, they know old days, you know?
Starting point is 01:31:37 They sure are. And on that note, it's hilarious, bro. On to TikTok time. Crown eaters, let do it. Welcome to TikTok. time once again today we are starting with the draft and we're doing a style of draft we haven't done in quite a while actually i kind of just forgot about it for a while we're gonna do a build player draft okay okay interesting i like these here we go here we go a month it feels like
Starting point is 01:32:06 and you know what our most viewed draft on ticot is it's the k names draft that shit has like 3.7 million views i don't know why but the k names really popped off for us back in november 2023 for some reason so we're gonna do k names again but with a build We're running their back. Okay. Let's go ahead and do it. Okay. Let's go.
Starting point is 01:32:24 Real simple. You guys know what works by now. We got body, shooting, defense, playmaking, and finishing. Got to draft the best player possible. The draft order is Moe, Donovan, me. Ooh, I got the first pick. You do. Hmm.
Starting point is 01:32:40 So? Interesting. Who are we picking? Let's start the draft off. Who are you picking as your first trait? Okay. This is so interesting because I can go like so many ways. Yeah, huh. Okay, so let's say for my, for my body, ah, man, I could go so many ways. I guess there's no real wrong answer here. For my body, giving one of the most unique bodies in the NBA, Kevin Durant. Oh, I'm going to remove Kevin Durant all of his skills right away. Damn. That's very weird, very weird. But that is okay. That's okay.
Starting point is 01:33:20 um let's see let's see let's see okay i'm putting a premium on shooting so for my shooting give me clay thompson okay listen when you can get one of the best shooters of all time you do it exactly me on other hand i'm not putting a premium on shooting i'm going to go with christops porzinga's body and kevin garnett defense ah okay that right there was quite terrifying What if Kevin what if the best offender you've ever seen was also humongous?
Starting point is 01:33:56 That's what? That's awesome. That's tough. I'm not to shadow your knees. I only, that's the only chance that I have. You're going to have the Nancy Kerrig in me. Oh, God.
Starting point is 01:34:10 Okay. Well, in that same light, what if, what if you had somebody who could shoot like Clay Thompson, but was built like, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I'll take that. That's pretty deadly.
Starting point is 01:34:28 That's just Christos Porzingis with a better shooting. I'll take Kareem body. Man, talk about the names that we have here. We mentioned. You don't get the sky. No, Kareem Body. Oh, I was typing the wrong spot. Oops.
Starting point is 01:34:43 Gotcha. All these illustrious names you've got Kareem, got KG, KD, And I'm going to take Kyle Lyre for his playmaking. There we go. I was going to do that. I was going to do that. I wanted to take that because there's not a lot of passengers here. Exactly.
Starting point is 01:35:00 Exactly. I had to go ahead and snipe that off the board real quick. Okay. Damn. And then, hmm. I'm not going to touch suit you because I believe there's plenty of fine shooters here that I can go ahead and scoop up for the low any time.
Starting point is 01:35:18 Okay. Okay, so what's right under shooting? I can't see that very well. Finishing defense. Oh. Oh, okay. So defense of finishing. Okay, cool.
Starting point is 01:35:29 So for, so for defense, go ahead and give me Kauai Leonard. Yeah, great pig. Okay, you're cooking early. Go ahead and give me Kaui Leonard. Took me a little bit to go ahead and get my brain churning, but that motherfucker was working. As long as it is there, I know what I'm doing. Fuck. The level of disgust that I have in my heart right now is astronomical, because I was, I was hoping you would sell and I would get Kauai.
Starting point is 01:35:57 Yeah. Okay. Let's go here. Let's go here. Again, I asked you, what would it look like if somebody who could shoot like Clay was in Kareem's body? What if you had somebody in Kareem's body that could finish like Karee Irving with the jelly package? Give me Kyrie finishing. What a sleeper.
Starting point is 01:36:21 Okay. I like it. Man, if I saw somebody in Kareem's body doing all these fancy lifts instead of dunking that bitch, I'd be pissed. I'd be annoyed.
Starting point is 01:36:32 He's got to do it just for fun. What is what I'm going to do? I'm going to want up you a little bit. What if somebody in Christops's body was Dunkin like Prime Kobe? Give me Kobe finishing. Okay. What if I could fly?
Starting point is 01:36:44 Damn. This messed up. My plan. I don't know what to do now. Not a lot of passing here. Give me T&T's finest, Kenny Smith for my passing. Okay.
Starting point is 01:37:02 All right. Kenny Smith. He's a point guard. He fills that role. There's not a lot of good point guards here in the K names. I'll say that. Yeah, exactly. That's hilarious, bro.
Starting point is 01:37:12 Okay, that's solid. Donno, what you go now? I mean, I do need. I do need a playmaker. This guy isn't necessarily thought of as a playmaker, but he is a point guard. Give me Kemba Walker for playmaking. Hmm.
Starting point is 01:37:28 Oh. So it's not, it's not the best. It's not the best out of y'all's two, but I'm okay. There's not a lot of great options for, for playmaking here. You could have picked Killian Hayes.
Starting point is 01:37:41 Exactly. He was on the board staring at you. I didn't think about, I didn't think about Killian Hayes, man. Oh, damn. Yeah, you couldn't pick one of the greatest nicks of all time. Kevin Knox, tripping, bro. Dang, man.
Starting point is 01:37:53 I keep... I have to be better. I have to be better. That's on me. That's funny. It's on me. All right. So, for shooting, go ahead and give me one of the five best shooters of all time, Kyle Corver.
Starting point is 01:38:09 Fawks, you're still in all my picks. It shot like 49, 50% from three-point line one year. He is ridiculous. You're building a demo. got small forward i'm building a demi god big this last pick might decide it yeah okay so now all i have left
Starting point is 01:38:25 is finishing y'all took my wing defenders and i'm very upset because i was gonna have i was gonna have karee moving out here like hawai and now i'm just gonna have to treat him like a traditional big and i'm upset okay
Starting point is 01:38:42 so i don't have that many options when it comes to finishing i'm kind of cooked at this friend. I only, I, I, I can pick between two bigs. Kevin Knox. And give me, what the hell? That sounded like a threat. So go ahead and give me, yeah, go ahead and give me Kenyon Martin. Someone was going to put the ball through the rim every single opportunity that he has. Mo, Mo, I'm a whoop your ass. I'm a beach ass, Mo. I really, I really am. I really am. When I see him. Sorry. I'm taking it back I'm a slap to shout you
Starting point is 01:39:20 I'm so upset I'm so mad I'm so mad you're about the biggest defense they should have never let me get Jet GPT thank you Chad GPT shout out to AI I did not do this alone
Starting point is 01:39:38 did you ask Chad Zibati for players I start with K I'll put it on God I did you think I'm lying I'm lying Bro, he used to sell every draft and now he's doing well
Starting point is 01:39:55 because he found chat GPT, that's crazy. That was a turnaround. My savior, I just leaked my game plan of my strategy for the last 40 weeks, bro. I'm back. See, me,
Starting point is 01:40:06 I don't have any PEDs. I sit down, I look at my notes app, and I just think, get the shit out of the mode. I just think of all the players I can think of. I don't need any artificial handsments.
Starting point is 01:40:16 You got classic, American brain you work some you you're working harder not smarter I'm not optimizing my whole my whole plan is thrown out the window and I have no idea what to do at this point Kevin Knox Kendrick Perkins is right there Perk perk
Starting point is 01:40:42 Coastis you suck you suck so much I've actually never been more upset at you than what I am right now. Killian Hayes. And I guess standing six and four from France.
Starting point is 01:41:00 Killian Hayes. I don't have any of the I don't have any of the options. Okay, let me, let me take one thing. Let me take one thing and I promise you, I'm going to make this quick
Starting point is 01:41:11 and I'm going to try it. Kyle closes right there, bro. Just go ahead and pick him already. Shut up. Hey, you missed out on Mario. Can you just get Kenyon Martin Jr. Shut up.
Starting point is 01:41:19 Shut up. Just get the other one. Shut up. I am going to go. Cats right there. Yeah, pick cats defense. What we're going to do is we're going to base this purely off of defensive potential. And I'm taking defense based off.
Starting point is 01:41:47 somebody's athleticism. So if I had the defensive potential of Kenneth Farid, then I think Kareem could do something. So give me Kenneth Farid defense. The man, oh my God. Wow. Kenneth Farid based off of the idea.
Starting point is 01:42:12 I'm so nice. I'm so mad. You know what? Give me Carl, the town's for shooting to complete the demigod that was such an easy pick there we go it was either cat or Kevin Herder
Starting point is 01:42:24 I forgot Kevin Hurter was here yep so I have nice Christop's body cat shooting Kevin Garnett defense Kenny Smith playmaking and Kobe finishing good grief you're in your bag
Starting point is 01:42:40 I got Kevin Durant body Kyle Corver shooting Kauai defense Kyle Lire playmaking and Kenyon Martin finishing. How can you stop me? Canyon Martin. Kenyon Martin finishing is so random.
Starting point is 01:42:53 We got Kenyon Martin, Kenneth Fareed, and Kenny the Jet Smith on this list. I love it. I have Kareem's body, Clay Thompson shooting, Kenneth Furreed defense, Kimball Walker playmaking, Kyrieh finishing.
Starting point is 01:43:07 Kenneth Farid is so misplaced here. Never in any list's history. Did Kenneth Freed find himself along these names ever? Listen, you got a defender and you got a playmaker Are they good at those things? I don't know, but you got them You got me You got me cooked
Starting point is 01:43:29 You got me cooked Tough man Next thing we're gonna do I'm gonna have a list for you guys That I want you guys to react to What I'm gonna do today is These are my most underrated players in the NBA Guys who I think for whatever reason don't get
Starting point is 01:43:46 they're just due in discourse that people sleep on a little bit. I want you guys react to it. Bet. Okay. So real simple. You guys know what underrated means. I don't go to do an explanation. Here are my top eight most underrated players. First off, at number eight, we got Jared Allen. All the talk is that him and inevitably don't fit. The offense is gross. Yuck, yuck, yuck.
Starting point is 01:44:08 He is so good. If we free him from the shackles of another non-shooting big, people are going to appreciate this guy is legitimately an all-star talent. Your people are always... He's quite a little. literally was an alter tan already. You're right. That's true. That's true. People always think about Jared Allen as like this amazing defender, which he is, but they don't understand that he has upgraded his scoring bag. He's a solid, you know, passive for a big man. Like he he has stuff in his bag that he can do. Definitely underrated. And his Lego collection is
Starting point is 01:44:35 outrageous. The Lego collection is crazy, bro. And also he has one of the greatest means of all time. He contributed to NBA history. Not many players can say that. Yeah, listen, man, I I need to see him on a team that makes more sense for him so bad. He's so good. Next name. We got Desmond Bain. I don't think people realize that he averaged an efficient 24.5 points and like five and a half assists this year.
Starting point is 01:45:00 The playmaking took a huge step of John Morant out and he wasn't in all-star convos because the team was horrendous and all their players died so they couldn't win games. But he played an all-star level this year, like quite easily. Geo-Doo. Desmond Bain, wow. The holy.
Starting point is 01:45:16 Yeah, I agree. He doesn't band is he he is well for some reason I feel like he'll forever remain underrated for the rest of his career. He was underrated coming into the NBA draft. He was underrated now and with all these new guards popping up Anthony Edwards ascending and stuff like that doesn't mean is just an afterthought just a guy. If he had if he had six more inches of arms, they'd be talking about him like Jalen Brown. Oh, 100%. Listen, he's they're in Memphis. So, like, they're never going to be the nation's, like, favorite team.
Starting point is 01:45:50 The Grizzlies are going to have to win a championship for people to understand how good Desmond Bain is. He's low-key, like, he's in the conversations with Jamal Murray and them as the best, one of the best players to not make an all-star team yet. That's all-fax. That's 100% true. All right. Next name.
Starting point is 01:46:07 I got Scotty Barnes. I think that people, listen, the Raptors are not good. Washington play is not fun. And Scotty Barnes made an all-star. But I think people kind of treated it like a here fucking take it type of all star But Scotty Barnes has a legit incredibly high ceiling a lot of people if you say that like he's in the same tier as a prospect of like a palo ban caro They're going to look at you like you're crazy He's going to be great he's so versatile a great defender can pass the ball can score
Starting point is 01:46:33 He has like top 15 player in the league ceiling I think Yeah a lot of the times whenever we talk about Scotty Barnes is because we're you know we're making jokes about scotty barnes people rarely talk about him as the great basketball player that he is he can do it all and not that the raptors
Starting point is 01:46:50 are like rebuilding they should be happy that they have that they have an actual like good good young piece to build around yeah and I think everybody knows he's good
Starting point is 01:46:59 but I don't think everybody like talks about him as like having legit like really high level all-star ceiling because Scottie Barnes the player I don't really watch that
Starting point is 01:47:07 Scottie Barnes the streamer I watch that as a content genius definitely underrated in the content game next up lamello ball we talked about him on the rankings earlier
Starting point is 01:47:25 listen he became overrated because he was so popular and then now he's always injured everyone's like ah he'll never be healthy all this stuff that we don't appreciate him for being actually amazing because people just assume it's the hype because people like him because he's cool he's legit incredible when he's on the basketball court it makes me so mad that we're not able to see him play for healthy for a full season because he would be like clearly all-star level by now for consistent years if you can say healthy
Starting point is 01:47:50 man pain pain pain when i think a little mellow ball i just think of pure sadness bro he should have been an all he would have been an all-star last year if he was just continuing this trajectory bro that he started we could give him bionic ankles the league would be so different Oh my God I agree Byionic ankles It's great Imagine how many careers
Starting point is 01:48:13 Would be different If we just have bionic Insert body part here You gave Derek Rose Bionic knees Oh my goodness That's top 10 all time Lamello ball
Starting point is 01:48:23 Is in Zion territory Of the most frustrating Injuries ever That are robbing us Of like a really high level player All he needs to do Is learn how to stay healthy And learn how to drive safely
Starting point is 01:48:34 and he would be skyrocketing up. That's all he needs to focus on. Next to you. I think I got some role players up next. I got Aaron Wiggins at four and Dennyav Dihah at three. They don't know about Air Wiggins. They don't.
Starting point is 01:48:48 He's so good. He needs to get more minutes. He's everything you want from a complimentary wing. And so is Deni of Diyah. As soon as Deni of Deha gets put on a high-level contender, people are going to realize like, oh, is this Aaron Gordon? Is this Eric White?
Starting point is 01:49:01 Like, he's one of those high-level role players that can really help a championship team. I know, I do feel bad for him because he just went from trash team on the East Coast to trash team on the West Coast and nobody is going to understand how good he is and how much of a leap he's taken since he's been in the league. But listen, if you're ever up late, you can't sleep. Turn on a Blazers game, right? Watch, watch Denny.
Starting point is 01:49:24 He'll be hooping. Yeah. I agree. This dude is the ultimate Swiss Army knife or at least one of the most ultimate up-and-coming Swiss Army Knives can pass, cut, jump shot is. gotten better, bro. I ain't going to lie. A couple years ago when I was evaluating his tape, I called him Ben Simmons with a jump shot.
Starting point is 01:49:40 So much cap, but that goes to his versatility. That's why I don't make videos more. He's not that. He's real good. I mean, Ben Simmons is now with a jump shot. You're not wrong. Oh, tough. If he could finish with a rim like Prime, Ben Simmons,
Starting point is 01:49:56 this would be an insane player. Different player, bro. All-Star. And number two, we have Colin Sexton. People forgot about him because he missed a year with an ACL injury, I think. And he was just quietly last year was like 18, 5, and 5 on great efficiency, just a really high level offensive player. He needs to be traded so he can flourish. He's hidden in the mountains with the Mormons.
Starting point is 01:50:19 They don't, people don't know, right? Exactly. You're out there secluded. It's a weird time zone too. Listen, I think that Colin Sexton is one tradeaway. And I'm with you. one tradeaway get you to a big market get you a really good contract you sir you can have a footlock a commercial really soon if you put him on the lakers you put him on the lakers he's
Starting point is 01:50:45 gonna be on some on some billboards oh my god bro they're gonna talk about this man like he's i don't know god damn burning davis or something like that i don't know if that's a good name burning yeah that's so random who's that he's burning davis i i just butcher that like he's a motherfucker I said Vernon Davis Who's the dude Baron Davis
Starting point is 01:51:07 There we go That's hilarious Bring sex into the Lakers man We can make something happen He's gonna be so good I agree And last but not least The number one current
Starting point is 01:51:19 Most underrated player In the entire NBA Trey Young I have never seen The Office of Player This taking for granted This man has talked about Like he's Smush Parker
Starting point is 01:51:28 Like he's Jordan Clarkson Like he's just a role player No defense empty stats, offense. It's so hard to average 28 and 10 for like a four-year period. Keep going, keep going, keep going. And we just fucking laughing at it going.
Starting point is 01:51:40 Keep going, keep going. You need to stop before I decided take him off this fucking list. That's crazy. That's crazy. Don't start the double hand. No, don't do that. I don't want to hear that.
Starting point is 01:51:53 Oh, whoa, double hands is crazy. All right. If I had three, I wouldn't use them. I'm just kidding. Do you need to control Your Trey Young Munch aside He is so taking for granted The narratives around him are so lazy
Starting point is 01:52:10 But I'm with a collar on you Relax He has a beard now too bro He's coming into a year what Six or whatever with a beard It's coming in different bro You're in love Or is outrageous
Starting point is 01:52:22 He's a he can hoop and he's sexy Oh my God Like bro relax relax Relax He's coming next year You'll see Oh my God But, Mo,
Starting point is 01:52:33 answer this question. Do you think that Tray Young is playing fair this year? He was never playing fair. Yeah, man, that's the end of my list. That was the next thing we're going to do. Love that. At first I had more role players on there,
Starting point is 01:52:53 but I decided to put a little bit better players because it was really easy for me to just fill it with 10 guys nobody talks about because they're role players. Yeah. I had him switch up a little bit, put some high level guys on there. Nice. I like it.
Starting point is 01:53:03 So, ooh, I think it's my time to shine, y'all. So next we're going to do, we're going to go ahead and sit down and rate NBA statues on a scale of 1 to 10. Statues have been around the game for a minute to go ahead and give your salute to all the great NBA players from the past. Now, not all statues are the same. Some of them are ass and some of them are actually pretty good, pretty fun. All right, so rate the NBA statue on a scale of one. 1 to 10. First up, we got John Stockton doing his classic signature pose. Fitting a pass on his body, I'm John Stockton. It's not bad. It's not bad. This is just a very
Starting point is 01:53:44 regular statue. This is like quintessential NBA statute. It's a solid six. It's just normal. Exactly. And they got him in like the John Stockton pose where he's just like entry pass and just throws it. So it's like I'll say like a seven. It's not bad. Yeah, this is how he got like 19 thousand. It was 23,000 assists. This is the most damning statue pose I've ever seen, but this is also like the most damning player to receive a statue, so I understand.
Starting point is 01:54:12 He does look, I will say he does look mad brolic in this. He looks a lot stronger than what he actually looks like. They gave him some HGH in the statue. This is ridiculous. You're not right. He was not this strong. He was like Donald Mitchell.
Starting point is 01:54:31 That's hilarious, bro. I'll say something cool. You got muscles for no reason. Eric Bledso. Yeah, that's so it's hilarious. All right. Next up, we got Shaquille O'Neal.
Starting point is 01:54:44 This is ferocious. Not going to lie to you. It's color. This is elite. It's elite. This is a great statue. Just, listen, sometimes a statue can be real average. The pose can be whatever.
Starting point is 01:54:55 It's just okay. Kobe Bryant. This one nails the essence of Shaq so well, getting him in the perfect position. 10 out of 10. I mean, this is what he did. Most of his career, bro, put a lot of his nuts
Starting point is 01:55:09 and a lot of different players' faces. He went ahead and disrespected so many people, bro. This embodies Shaq in his career and just how dominant he was. What do you do with that? 10 to me. This pose is also kind of crazy, though. It's 10.
Starting point is 01:55:23 Listen, to have your gooch up in the air like this for eternity is wild. But, I mean, shout out to you, though. Shout to check Let it be known This is the second time In TD3 history That's the word Gooch
Starting point is 01:55:38 That's what it's called That's what it is That's the term He's just spread out Multi-time Goochieffender That now we're discussing For sure You're on Gucci watch
Starting point is 01:55:55 Is that That not the topic of conversation Goocher Goocher It's just all out He's at 10 to 2 It's wild 10 to 2
Starting point is 01:56:16 He said Ah I'm here Ha All right, next up we got, we got, Ew. Witsky. This was the prototype.
Starting point is 01:56:40 This is nasty timing right here. Ew. This is not the official statue. This was an idea. Ew, ew, ew. Ew. Ew. Ew.
Starting point is 01:56:52 Ew, ew, ew. This is disgusting. This is so nasty It's disgusting Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, yuck Gross You know, it's killing me This is so nasty
Starting point is 01:57:13 I'm crying so much This is a freaky statue, bro Bro, there's so many tears On my eyes right now Bro, they're thinking about all the freaky nasty people in Dallas Good God, this statue got versatility. Oh, my goodness.
Starting point is 01:57:30 Donovan saw this, and he was in a Victorian child, drinking Mountain Dew, can handle it. He was, oh, my God. So it's freak of towards, man. This is crazy. This is so bad. I like the idea of him. The fade away, obviously classic, historic move in the NBA, but damn, bro. I'm so happy this to come out of the real thing.
Starting point is 01:57:50 Who greenlighted this? Did Mark Cuban do this himself? Like, this is. This is a bad idea. He definitely gave it the green light. Good God. This is a bad idea. It's the daylight.
Starting point is 01:58:02 Thank God they fix it, man. Thank God this didn't get put into the world. Yeah, exactly. There have been some horrendous crimes done in this thing. I feel like a lot of our audience are going to see this and not know why it's so gross. And I'm happy for them. Keep your youth. Keep your unpoisoned eyes.
Starting point is 01:58:19 Exactly. Don't do no research. What's next? Oh, man. Next up, we got Magic Johnson. This is good. Again, they made him brolic as hell. He looks muscular or shit.
Starting point is 01:58:34 Is this LeBron? That don't even look like magic in the face to be honest. I'm gonna stay, I'm gonna stay quiet. I know what you're thinking, and I was gonna say to say me. I'm gonna say quiet. What are you to say? I can't say it, but I can text it. No, no, no.
Starting point is 01:58:53 I refuse to say this out loud. Yes I'm not going to say it. I was like, oh my God. Maybe they were right. Maybe they were subject right. Are you saying maybe you're going to give it They were on to shut them, bro.
Starting point is 01:59:32 It's just like this. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Just, okay, so, I don't, people talk about it. Do people know what you're talking about right now? I don't think they won't know. They won't know. Maybe they will because you say racist, but.
Starting point is 01:59:53 Let's just say, Donovan's talking about the way they made his face look. they made him look crazy oh man his instincts look crazy in this photo bro that's what we'll say yeah that's crazy bro
Starting point is 02:00:08 oh my god this is a zero for sure I like the idea the pose is cool directing the offense but come on man man man let's just
Starting point is 02:00:20 keep it moving next up we got Jammarant we need to stop making this tattoos we got to stop making it what happened to the rest of his arms
Starting point is 02:00:31 did they put death McBain's arm on him what the fuck this big dubby standing in the middle of the court man
Starting point is 02:00:41 oh my god this is zero why is his chest he has a little chef I think he has you know what this looks like chest, he is the bronze chest and like
Starting point is 02:00:57 Zuri's arms. The arms are so tiny. You know what this looks like, you know, you know the memes when they're like what the worst play would look like and it's like somebody's body in like, you know, just like the worst attributes it looks like they did that for Jock. It's like Big Baby Davis's
Starting point is 02:01:13 body and Matt McCloy's swing fan. Oh my God, bro. This is legit horrendous. What is this from? What the fuck is this? Bro, this is homage to one of the parks in South Carolina. This is homage to one of the parks of South Carolina for Jah. Oh, bro.
Starting point is 02:01:33 Oh, yeah, they'd be hitting down there. But they need to take this shit down. This is even worse for them, brand. Get his lawyers on the phone again. Who does this look like? It doesn't look like Jop at all. It's like some rapper, to be honest with you. Don't look like Jah.
Starting point is 02:01:48 Some drummer. Some rapper? Some rapper. Some rapper? Why a rapper? You know why? you know exactly why
Starting point is 02:01:57 nothing about this face says rapper there's something very distinct that says rapper and you know what it is except for how did this time I get so it hinged Oh my God
Starting point is 02:02:17 Zero at 10 This statue is Beyond comprehension Oh man This statue is sick work. Next up we got Kobe Bryant. Apparently this is what Kobe wanted. Listen, I wouldn't have picked this for Kobe, but if it's what he wanted, then shout out to Kobe. There you go. This is so anticlimatic. Seven out of ten. It's all right. I, you want something a little bit
Starting point is 02:02:44 cooler, a little more Kobe. Not the coolest stance in the world. They fucking out like four times. You could have got the fist pump, right? That would, that would have been cool. Yeah, they had to hit some revisions to the statue because they fucked up a few important details but that's so embarrassing eventually we got to a decent statue yeah this is solid six I guess
Starting point is 02:03:05 they could have chose so many more poses though for sure I agree this is a L major L what does this even mean bro I mean I get it I know what it means she's very beautiful to me that's what I immediately think of not
Starting point is 02:03:20 Kobe Ryan bro mean culture just ruin my mind She's very gorgeous to me. What's next? Oh, next up we got Alan Iverson. They just unveiled this a couple months ago, actually. I don't know if it's the angle,
Starting point is 02:03:39 but he looks like an eight-year-old in this. Why does he look so small? This is like Mike. This is Calvin Cambridge. Like, that's exactly what this is. And it doesn't help that the statue is like two feet tall. I know that they do it for everybody,
Starting point is 02:03:53 but like maybe we should just start making bigger statues right let's stop being cheap when it comes to statue making yeah the pose is cool island iverson costume for halloween quite literally this is what it looks like bro looks like some he looks like something that snuck on the earth to be honest with you it doesn't look really natural at all what yeah it doesn't look natural at all the people The pose is a little bit off. But the pose is cool. I mean, it's Alan Ivers him doing its crossover.
Starting point is 02:04:24 I don't hate that part. For how they made other people's, like, faces look on some of the other statues that we've seen and just like in general, this could have been much worse. And if the, if the worst thing about it is that it's too small,
Starting point is 02:04:37 you did okay. You did fine. Yeah. True. True. I was a solid seven. Okay. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:04:43 Seven is good. I'll go eight because everything about it is actually good. Yeah. Okay. It's cool. Yeah. I mean, I mean What is this?
Starting point is 02:04:53 Next up, I believe this is Wilk Chamberlain. Yep. There's a lot going on here. There is a lot going on. Are they trying to make them like a Greek god or like What is this? This is what will look like back in the day. They never seen no man hoop like this before back in the 1950s, bro.
Starting point is 02:05:13 Yes, he was that. That's true. This looks like the Game of Thrones throne. Like there's so much. going on it looks so uh are both are both of these things like supposed to be wheel chamberlain they try to have like two like wilt moments in the statue yeah i believe so and it just didn't work also so much going on also this is also from the sixers so is this also a tiny statue because if so this is too much going on for a little statue that big this looks
Starting point is 02:05:45 to be huge i think it is huge it's big as hell it's big a cell there's so much You picked out like a, you picked out like a 480P picture, so it's hard for me to tell what's going on. Like I can't even like really visually identify with what all this is. Yeah, I'm very, very unsure. Looks like condors are carrying him. I can't tell what's going on. Yeah. Next up, of course, we got Michael Jordan.
Starting point is 02:06:08 I've actually never seen what MJ's face looks like on the statue. I've just seen the side view. And that's all I need. This is hard. This is one of the best statues ever. This is the Michael Jordan logo. this is Jordan 10 out of 10 it's 10 yeah they nailed it it's you it's a one job as a statue creator one main job and let's get the pose right and make it clearly
Starting point is 02:06:29 identifiable a dead and make it clearly identifiable as one player this is that okay if lebron had a statue what would it be probably the the the chalk toss chalk oh that'd be dope yeah i would i would either like like one of his celebrations like the size that like in the chest yeah maybe maybe uh like a tomahawk don't like a breakaway jump don't yeah honestly probably that i think it also be cool if it's him like holding the trophy just that one picture of him after win 2016 where he's that crying holding the trophy all tight yeah that could be cool i can't wait till i see lebron's any statues real it's it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna be the the chalk toss it's gonna be he's gonna
Starting point is 02:07:16 have like his arms like stretched out yeah that I can see him in that Tomahawk Dunk. He has two many moments in his career that are like so stacked you were there. All right, all right, save the glaze. Save the glaze, it's fine. All right, right, right, right. Next up, we got Larry Bird.
Starting point is 02:07:32 Larry is that also college one? Yeah. He has his college in the state. That's good. I like, I like this jersey. This is not bad. I'm going like a nine out of ten. I think you probably, and it probably happens
Starting point is 02:07:44 because of like it's old. The writing on the jersey could look a little bit clear, But as for, like, Larry Bird, his shot for him, everything. This is, this is a good statue. They nailed a hair and face. Like, that's crazy. This is generally one of the best statues I've seen. I think it might be a 10.
Starting point is 02:08:00 And it's so basic, too. But they hit all the nice, simple things. I like it. There we go. Good for Indian State. Exactly. And that's the last one. Perfect.
Starting point is 02:08:12 What a segment. What a clip, man. Next thing we're going to do. We're going to do a game where I'm going to name two NBA players and I want to know which one of these players you would want to take the last shot
Starting point is 02:08:25 who was taking your game winning shot they're both in the court. Ooh, who's more clutch? Who has a clutch, I like it. Now we're in summer for real. Let's do it. It's time to enter Skip Bayless mode. Who has the clutch factor?
Starting point is 02:08:39 The clutch gene. First off, Anthony Edwards or Jason Tatum. I don't trust Jason Tatum at all with the ball in his hands for five minutes left. I'll take Anthony Edwards and it's not a question. I want to trust Jason to him to do nothing but teach me how to tie my tie.
Starting point is 02:08:55 I'm taking Anthony Edwards for sure. Oh my God. You're talking about Jason Day and I'm like he's fucking Al-Faruka Minu. Come on. No, no. I mean, listen, he's better than some players. He's not better than Anthony Edwards with the game on the line. Clutch, you have to understand.
Starting point is 02:09:12 Clutch, I don't care what the numbers say. Clutch is a feeling, right? I have to feel like the ball's going in. it's an idea exactly and Anthony Edwards I trust him you don't respect that one game winning spinning lap that Jason Tatum had that's such a fake game winner bro what no one when Kevin Durant messed up like crazy no I'm okay oh y'all hate Jason Taylor so much now I do respect the he was just running winners that he had found the ball oh here it is here it is like that's hilarious that is that's hilarious that's hilarious
Starting point is 02:09:48 When he tries to a game winners, they don't really go in like that. Joel Embed or Janus? I trust Yonis getting to the rim way more for sure. I don't care if it was a three, a free throw, anything. If the game is on the line, I will never put the ball in Joelle and B.'s hands. I'm taking Yonis. Even though Yonis can't shoot. I've seen Janus take
Starting point is 02:10:18 three. I saw a clip today about Janus taking a step back three to tie the game. Yeah, and for that step back three, that was for him
Starting point is 02:10:25 to become the franchise leader in points. So I'm taking Janus. Hmm. Damn. I'm taking on. It's a clutch of you just... Sorry, Joelle.
Starting point is 02:10:35 Intangible. I'm not sorry, Joelle. You brought this on yourself. Okay. Fourth quarter, Joelle and Bid is quite the presence. Yeah.
Starting point is 02:10:46 Who was first quarter, second quarter, maybe third quarter? I'm taking Duel for sure because he's different. Well, listen, not even second quarter. Towards the end of half, mm-mm. If the clock is running down, I'm not giving it to Joel. Next up, Ben Simmons or Andre Drummond. Oh, shit. How do you want to lose?
Starting point is 02:11:12 You're both, they're both getting viral as hell because Andrew German has some hilarious low lights and Ben Simmons low lights are just depressing. I think I might go with Andre German because I want to laugh. I think I might... Listen, if I'm going to go out,
Starting point is 02:11:28 I want to go out fighting. At least I know that Andre German will put up a shot. Ben Simmons won't, he won't even look at the basket. So I'll have to take Andre Drummond. He'll throw a grenade to the shooter right next to him with half a second left.
Starting point is 02:11:41 Exactly. If you don't dunk on trade, young you are 610 please that picture's hilarious every time i see it it looks like tri young just like shrinks somehow more and more and more it doesn't look real it's so crazy because he really could have had like the iconic picture of his career he could have put his nuts in tray young's face and the series would have been over and he was like no i don't want it it's insane sliding glass doors moment what the butterfly effect that would have happened if he would have yammed on trey young the whole league would be different right now that's crazy and that's not
Starting point is 02:12:23 an exaggeration either yeah no i agree it would have been them bro it would have been them versus the bucks in the conference finals oh wow that would have been that i've been a series wow but i said you had trey young given drew hall at a 48 points in game one tough scene and then losing He got hurt. Next one. He stepped on a roof. Jordan pool. Jordan pool or Cam Thomas.
Starting point is 02:12:52 Ooh. Ooh. This is interesting. We got some irrational confidence in the building. Listen. No matter, all you can't, you can say a lot about these guys. I can promise you, they will take that shot. They will not be scared.
Starting point is 02:13:04 They will hoist that shit. They will. I like Cam Thomas, me personally. Every time he shoots it, he can manipulate me into thinking that. it's going to go in for jordan pool he's a little bit indecisive does way too much and he also might take a game winning shot from too far back i'm thinking i think jordan pool's going to be too jordan pool's going to be trying to look sexy while he does it it's going to be doing a little too much and i make it have a little pizzazz can't thomas is straight to contest the jumper
Starting point is 02:13:32 we know what he's getting he's getting right to a spot that's that's true i want to empower jordan pool because i think that obviously he's better than what he showed in washington I think if you give us some confidence he'll be okay But like you guys said It just does too much I just need one crossover get to the shot And Cam Thomas would do that So I'm going to Ken Thomas
Starting point is 02:13:53 Might be Can't have a really long career As like a special teams player If he was just putting the game for gaming shots To go get the tough bucket The same way you have like a speed wide receiver That has one run role with the team I think Loki can Thomas can do that
Starting point is 02:14:07 If Cam Thomas Player is so damny Special team If Cam Thomas had played in a different era He would have been like The professional scorer guy Like he really could have been Lou Will Jamal Crawford like eight years ago
Starting point is 02:14:23 But now it's like I don't know I don't know if people Look at him like that We'll see you man Next up Luca Donchich or Steph Curry Interesting
Starting point is 02:14:37 I don't want to turn my back on Steph But man, this guy, Luca, is dangerous. This white man is dangerous. If there's five seconds left and he puts the shot up, I'm shocked if he misses it. I think that every shot in the clutch from Luca is going in, I think I might have to take Luca. With how easy it is for Luca to get to the rim,
Starting point is 02:14:58 I can understand why you'd want to take Luca. But me personally, I'm just going by the percentages. Just give me stuff. More efficient. Just give me stuff. I'm a math guy. I don't think Steph's last five minutes is more efficient than Lucas. You're right.
Starting point is 02:15:15 It's not. I'm looking at the entire game, though. Well, the point is who's taking the last time. Steph will have us in those positions. You give a good team around Steph. He wouldn't have us in a clutch position. It's okay. Steph, exactly.
Starting point is 02:15:30 That's the game. We'll just win the game. I see you. Okay, next one. Jimmy Butler or Paul George. Oh, this is pretty easy, right? Very easy. Paul George is going to hit the side of the backboard sometimes.
Starting point is 02:15:47 Thank you. Thank you. Great player. He can get you through the, he can go ahead and get you to one in the first, second, and third. With them fourth quarters, yikes. I'm leaning Paul, Jimmy Buller. Listen, when Paul George decides that it's time to bully, listen, there's not a lot of people. There's not a lot of people.
Starting point is 02:16:09 who can mislike him. So I'm going to go with Jimmy Butler here. No respect for the 35-year-old bully. Unbelievable. Ball game. That's hilarious. Zion Williamson or James Hardin? This is hilarious to imagine.
Starting point is 02:16:32 It is. Sometimes you just need a jumper and I still believe that James Hardin can get a jumper off. um so i think i'm gonna go with james hardin i agree james harten for sure we've seen what what do i need what kind of how much time is left what do i need you got 10 seconds left you're down by one hmm 10 seconds left is down by one james harten's gonna go ahead and try to dance he might overthink things zahn wills is gonna go through people i'll take i'll take Zion in that situation. He can run half-back dive.
Starting point is 02:17:11 He doesn't get to that free throw line. Yeah. Yeah. But at the worst, we're going to get two free throws to get a shot up. Or even if he misses, Zion can get his own rebound and
Starting point is 02:17:24 make it there. You're going to, you're going to get multiple opportunities if you get Zion going downhill, where James Hardin's at that point in his career, where if he's going downhill, it's not a guarantee that he's going to blow by somebody. So I think it's a guarantee he won't Yeah
Starting point is 02:17:40 10 seconds left I think I might go Zia Wow James Tarn they're disrespecting you over here Draymond Green or Tobias Harris Oh my God Tobias no I'm taking
Starting point is 02:17:55 Who the hell are you taking at this point? I don't know You tell me Dramon did shoot really well from three from three point line this year I don't know what the situation is but I might be taking Dremont Green. Because when we put Dremont in the high post, let me hit some jab steps.
Starting point is 02:18:13 You might have some shit. I think I might take Dremont because I think that he has, I think he has more confidence in himself than Tobias Harris does. I don't know because he said in podcasts before that he really don't like, like to shoot it at all because he feels like he has better options than him putting it up. I don't know. But if, but if he was on the same court as Tobias Harris,
Starting point is 02:18:34 he would look over and be like, No, I got to take the shot. Like, it's not really a, it's not really a big decision like that. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Okay. That's true. That's true.
Starting point is 02:18:44 That's true. That's true. That's true. Last thing we're going to do. So, are you guys familiar with the site, Ranker? Yes. I actually know I've never been on it before. Ranker has a lot of, like, lists that are voted on by everybody that goes in the site, and they rank things.
Starting point is 02:18:59 And there's an NBA category. So you can go on there and see, like, the top 10 players from the 2003 drafts. the top 10 shooters of all time. So and so, they're voted on by the public. So it's like a conglomerate list that everybody votes on. I pulled up the Ranker list for the top 10 white players of all time.
Starting point is 02:19:18 And I want you guys to guess who is on this list. We love racial content on this channel. And I love this list. All right, let's get into it. So real simple. I want you guys to guess the top 10 white NBA players of all time
Starting point is 02:19:33 according to Ranker. Larry Bird. Larry Bird's number one Kevin McHale Kevin McHale is number nine Wow What's your man Oh Bob Coosie
Starting point is 02:19:47 Bob Coosie did not make the list John Havleteck He got John Havichick at 10 John Stocksie This man is eating John Stockton said at three Man Donovan knows his white boys He's eating
Starting point is 02:19:59 George Miking There's people George Miking did not make the list Wow Luca They put Luca at number six already Nice is Yokish there Yokic
Starting point is 02:20:12 Jokic Jokic is number four already Dirk Wow Dirk is number two already Does J.J. Reddy get the ORA pass No J.J. Rade does not get the
Starting point is 02:20:24 aura pass DJ Reddy does not touch in this fucking list Damn I would have put them on the list They don't know shit Is Steve Nash there Steve Nash is number seven So what do we need eight and five eight and five all right let's think let's think about the
Starting point is 02:20:41 about the white boys too long and hard pull your roll a decks of NBA pasty princes um damn Marley okay damn Marley what a deep cut no it's not Dan Marley does Jason Kidd pass in this scenario no that is a black man this actually you never know people are confused no just didn't get is not on this list okay let's think let's think about like the all time does uh
Starting point is 02:21:11 is pal gasol or more casol on this list power is actually like number 13 or something but no he's not not 10 okay 8 and 5 what what errors are are we missing
Starting point is 02:21:23 is Bill Walton there oh true was number 12 Bill Wilson's not top 10 oh really these guys are old old players they're not modern they're like yeah
Starting point is 02:21:32 from a while ago is Arvita's a bonus there Of course he's not here Are he's a bonus? Yeah He was Yokes before Yokens These boys who are Reagan
Starting point is 02:21:46 Don't know anything about some of the best white Bigs, damn Okay Oh is Go ahead One of these is incredibly obvious I don't know how he wasn't the first name You thought about when you think of NBA white boy
Starting point is 02:21:59 Oh Jerry West Jerry West is number five And then is Bob Pitted on the Yokens bitch that's crazy all you have now is number eight is Bob pettit on here Bob pettit is not on here but that'd be a good pick Bob pettit with a bag on okay that there's a number eight is like number eight is like the swaggy white boy of his time white chocolate just bleeds he just bleeds
Starting point is 02:22:25 aura did you just say white chocolate yeah I mean you're right he just bleed or he bleeds aura the swaggy white boy of the time Swaggy white boy This is the most swag you can imagine I'm gonna hate myself for this I'm gonna I'm gonna be very upset I can't exaggerate Pissop Pete! Pissopin there
Starting point is 02:22:52 there we go there we go I knew it I knew it I knew it and there we go that's the full list and that's the full episode we're done y'all the first episode of ranking season is done is behind us stay tuned over the next five weeks we're gonna keep it going all all summer long it's ranking season so what should they comment tell me you're laughing something you're
Starting point is 02:23:17 thinking what are you gooch watcher we'll see y'all next week

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