The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked The Best Point Guards In The NBA | Ep. 97
Episode Date: July 12, 2024Ranking the NBA's top 30 point guards! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotif...y.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 2:03- 26-30 15:05- 21-25 27:00- 16-20 43:05- 11-15 1:06:16- 6-10 1:19:03- Top 5 1:31:35- TikTok Time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
There comes the time every summer once the NBA season is over.
Us three at the deep three have a certain season that comes into play, right?
It's kind of our, the prime of our year.
We like to call this ranking season.
And guys, today is the first day of 2024 ranking season.
We are so fucking back.
Listen, Jordan has fadeaways.
Shack has dunks.
We have ranking episodes, right?
This is what we do.
This is a part of our game.
About this time last year is when the show really,
blew up and released started taking off. People love singer off season content because a lot of
these shows, you know, summer comes around, people mail it in. People take vacations. People
have some weeks off. They do their normal thing. Not us. We double down on bullshit. We come out.
We rank stuff. We throw stuff interior lists. We do all the silly shit because you can do that any time
of the year. So now for the next month, we're going to do what we did last year, but we're going to rank
the top 30 of every single position in the NBA. And obviously today we're starting with point guards.
Five pods a day. Three summers. You know, you know, you know,
You know how we do it.
You know how we do it.
That's lucky.
So, you know, if you guys saw it last year, like I said, the top 30 point guards, based on, pretty much based on the last season, but we all have different criteria.
We always end up on some bullshit where we're trying to figure out how we all view things.
And if it's the same.
And spoiler, it never is.
Some of us project.
Some of us don't.
Some of us give credit for certain things.
Some of us don't.
Some of us care more about injuries and others.
To ease the run with these lists
So don't expect consistency between the three of us
I'll say that
Yeah even when we do end up like
Agreeing on a certain criteria
We all just like veer off to decide here
And like here and there for the most random guys ever
Yeah so there's no point
Shout out personal biases
Exactly
Man let's get into it
The cranium is crazy
Oh my God
I mean, I don't know what to say.
Pray on eaters rejoice!
If you guys are watching on YouTube, do me a favor, drop like and subscribe.
If you're on audio platforms, read it's five stars, leave a review, all of that.
But yeah, man, we're gonna start, like always,
we're gonna start from the bottom half of the list first, going up to number one.
So the first section is number 25 through 30.
Mo, I already know your 24th point guard is disgusting.
I'm ready to argue.
Really?
I don't know who I remember I think back to last year's ranking season
I viscerally remember us arguing for like 15 minutes about Kyle Anderson who was
ranked like 27 on the small fours list it was it was it was Harrison Barnes versus
Kyle Anderson is what my God spend it I spent 20 minutes on that that's a
discussion on that I don't remember me personally I think I'm a Kyle Anderson guy
so no you are a Harrison Barnes guy
No way
I was arguing for Kyle Anderson
Over Harrison Barnes and you're like
What would Harrison Barnes do wrong
And listen obviously we're not gonna rehash it
So Isaac let's get into your list
You got that one year later
There we go
Top 30 point guards number 26 through 30 starting off
I have Kobe White at 26
Tice Jones at 27
Malcolm Brogden a 28
T.J McConnell at 29
and Chris Paul at 30
How do we feel
Interesting
interesting
Chris Paul at 30
It feels weird
I can get with it
Right yeah
I don't explain that
My first two cuts were very hard for me to cut
Is Dennis Schroeder
And Keonté George
They're the first ones off the board
I went with Chris Paul because
I mean listen
Last year
We can call it like it is
Watch this far
He can't get to the room
At all anymore
That was already falling off the past few years
even when he was with Phoenix doing really well,
was not getting to the rim.
The burst is even worse than before.
It's hard for him to get those mid-range jump shots
that he was eating with on the Phoenix Suns.
Defensively, you know, he's just old and small.
It's tough.
Everything has kind of taken a step back.
But, okay, he wasn't top 30 point guard last year at all, I don't think.
I don't think he played that level whatsoever.
But I think that when he goes to a new team this year in the Spurs
and is outside of the warrior system,
he's probably back to being a starter,
back to being the primary ball handler.
I think he'll look better.
I don't think the warrior system did him any justice, right?
It was a weird fit that was done for money reasons
to dump the Jordan Poole contract
and they made it work as best as they could
but he was a six man.
It was strange.
I'm giving him,
I feel like this has been giving him credit
that he'll be better next year.
Isn't it crazy that Chris Paul was just an all-star
like two years ago?
And that he fell fast.
When it goes, it goes quick.
Yeah.
Okay.
I can, yeah, I can.
Star to China within like 18 months.
Hey, RIP, shout out Kimball Walker.
Shout out, shout out Kimball.
I know, I know.
Okay, so the rest of the list, I kind of, I think for me, like, because 27 through 30,
you can have them in any, in any, like, format.
I would, I'm assuming at 27, you're talking about Ty's Jones.
Yeah, Ty's Jones.
Yeah.
I would have Tyres Jones and Kobe White a little bit higher.
I think what Kobe White showed last year.
um is very very promising and there's a lot of teams and there's a lot of teams around the league
who could use a guard like him and if you want to like if you want to say hey he has to come
back and show it for a full season he did it you know pretty much for like a really good portion
of last season so i think that what he did was kind of real um i agree but yeah i think i think i think
I think 26 is just a little low for him,
but I'm not upset at it.
Yeah.
So I agreed.
It was hard whenever I have that in my mind of him being a most improved player
candidate looking fantastic.
The burst was really finally able to show in a productive way, right?
He's being practical with his athleticism and using it to be productive.
But when I compared him to the guys right above him, like a spoiler,
my 25 is D'Angelo Russell.
When I really compared him in D.Lo, I think I wanted to go Kobe White pretty easily
because like I say he's coming off of a great year
but I was like a great year of improvement for Kobe White
is making him in the same tier as a guy like Delo
who's a veteran already been making those leaps
so I feel like if we're projecting a little bit
Kobe White will probably take another leap next year
and be better than these guys
but we'll talk about the names above him specifically
but I think the other guys in the next range
are just already on that similar tier
while maybe being stronger defenders or stronger passers
while Kobe White is still mainly a score
Hmm. Okay. Okay. I can see that. I can understand that.
Well, who's your next five?
At 30, I have T.J. McConnell. I wish I could go ahead and put him up higher.
29, Dennis Schroeder, 28, DeAngel Russell, 27, Mike Conley, and 26. Marcus Smart.
Ooh, there's so many names here that I have hired. This is so different.
This tier, low-key looks like my next tier. Like, smart calling and Delo this lower crazy to me.
all right so what's the craziest thing that you guys see so far i think connie being at 27 yeah
calmly being at 27 is is is a bit low even dealer like listen we all know de angela russell's
limitations and i guess lack of performance in the playoffs 28 is still like come on like you
you still have to put him above that so i think those two those two i'm looking at it's like
I don't blame you though for kind of the playoff shit because he is like certified
playoff dropper like in a very tangible repeatable way so I understand really holding that against
him I didn't hold it as much but I get it with him when he's a playoff droper it's like he does
nothing else really valuable on the court somehow some way when your shots not falling of course
that affects your playmaking skills I see it directly with him even though he's an above average
passer but just I guess maybe have a little bit more bias towards him and
because of the letdowns that he's had, he's had for the Lakers over the last two years.
I dinged him of it because when I look at guys like Mike Conno, like he doesn't have to go ahead and hit like five threes to make his impacting presence felt.
You will feel that through the pace of the, through his pace of the game and the important passes that he's going to be continuously making how he's orchestrating the offense.
DeAnda Russell does not do that, probably because of his team and rolling or whatnot.
And as for Marcus Smart, maybe I should have dinged him lower too because obviously last year he didn't play that much.
much he was alongside Jha and everyone else on the sidelines, bro.
But traditionally, yeah, the market smart that we like usually know is a good point
guard and can make his presence felt without his shot falling, which doesn't fall more,
more times than not.
Yeah.
Brother, Adelo, it's tough because everything he says true.
The letdowns in the playoffs.
He's a, he's been a detrimental reason to why they can't beat the nuggets.
He's one of the most important starters, right?
one of their better players, him going from one of the better role player point guards in
the league to absolute zero has been like the number one reason why they can't beat the nuggets,
I think. You need production from that spot for how much they pay him. But you got to balance
that with the regular season where he had a really good year. He shot 42% from three and he shot 69%
at the rim. That's pretty fucking high. Now, he doesn't get to the rim that often because
doesn't have a burst, but he's really good when he gets there. Defensively, not great,
obviously. I don't think he was horrible in the regular season, but in place, but in
playoff series they fry him they know how to attack him in the regular season though i think you
hold his own like he said really good passer i think his presence has been so important for like
anthony davis eat the past couple years you know this year we're talking about ad and top five
convos a big part of that is because dlo knows how to feed him they have a good connection there
he has enough regular season value that i can't put him this low around this range for me
like i sit down and i'm just like bro you would thrive as a six man you would absolutely eat as a six
man and right below him ironically enough dennis schroeder and t jac mccano some of
the better six men in the entire NBA.
When I spell McConnell wrong in yours, tough.
So you just, you spell shorter wrong too, but who cares?
Oh, yeah, but I was going to write Dennis scrotum to troll you, but I was like,
let me just go ahead and be professional.
Yeah, listen, I made these graphics super fast.
You're going to have to deal with the spelling errors, y'all.
But no, I'm interested to see you next year because you have three players here that
are in my next year, so I'm really wondering who you put hired to push these guys down.
Yeah.
Now that I really look at it, I think I may have been hating on Dilo a little bit.
too much just because the sour taste
of my mouth and the last time I saw him.
No, I get it. I get it.
Same with Marcus Smart. It's hard to grade him when people
haven't seen him in so long. There's always going to be some biases
against guys that you just haven't seen.
But I, we'll get
to him in the next year. Let's look
at Donovan's 5.
All right. My 5. Mark is Smart
at 26. T.J. McConnell at
27. Chris Paul at 28.
Keante George at 29. Malcolm
Brogton at 30.
Wow. Shout out of John DeJoy's making it on there.
Shout out Kianti George
I didn't get him on there
but I really really wanted to
Debating him versus Chris Paul was tough
And I feel like there's a good chance
Keontzy George makes the second year leap
And it's better than Chris Paul next year
I just couldn't
That's a real possibility
Maybe it's biased that I went towards the veteran
But it was a tough decision
To not put him on there
So I respect you doing it
Yeah I think I think Chris like
I have Chris Paul on this list
For the same reason like you
Like I think that next year
We're gonna see an elevated version of him
playing in golden state system is very very weird and you've seen you've seen like good players come
through there and it's just not necessarily be the best fit you play a very specific type of way
and for chris paul even though that he was supposed to be you know kind of this like this this
bench you know general and do all that type of stuff you're still playing behind step
curry it's still step's team when that's not how chris paul likes to play right chris paul is
very ball dominant he likes to have control and that's just not the way that the worries do
So I think going into San Antonio system, playing with the guy like Wembe, where Chris Paul can close his eyes, throw the ball up, and he's going to get, you know, an extra two, three assist the game because of that.
We'll probably get a better version of him.
So that's why I have Chris Paul at 28.
T.J. McConnell, shout out to him.
You know what I'm saying?
He's great.
Great, great playoff performer.
And yeah, I think Mark is smart at 26.
You can put him up higher.
It's just the last year we, you know, the whole last year for the Grizzlies, which is just.
just very weird so he's such a divisive player like he you understand he wanted he won a
defensive player the year award who cares about whether or not people think he deserted or whatever
but like what that's what that being said he is one of the better defensive guards one of the
best defensive guards in the entire NBA but yeah on the offensive side of things is where
things get really shaky and like haywire for him so he could easily be like in the next
tier maybe he is there for you or maybe he didn't make the list at all for you Isaac
but I think 26 is a fair spot considering.
Oh, he made my list.
He made my list.
Okay, sweet.
One thing I'm going to do.
I'm going to value some defensive guards.
I'm going to value some defensive players for sure.
So he's a buyer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you, when Mark is smart.
Well, pull up, pull out countess.
Yeah, because that's, that's like, I think that County George is in line for another, another leap.
And he's good.
He, you just look at his numbers and he's just all across the board.
He's just not efficient enough for you.
to actually put him higher.
Yeah, that's why I had to come.
Like Malcolm Brogton, as currently struck it as a rookie,
Malcolm Brogton smokes him, I think.
And we know Malcolm Brogton has an issue.
He's never healthy ever.
But, you know, it's a night and day, efficiency-wise.
Obviously, you know, he's a rookie,
so Malcolm Boggins a better defender or passer, all this stuff.
Can I think George's, like, definition of, like,
I test, you're like, oh, this guy's going to be special.
When you look at all the numbers, you're like, oh, yeah,
he's also a rookie.
Because he's just like, again, I'm on cleaning the glass.
All the numbers are blue.
They're all blue as fuck, which means below average.
It's crazy.
I watch Keonti George, and I'm like, that boy nice, you know?
And that's that's what it comes down to.
That's also why I have Brogden below.
Like, Brogden was a very interesting cut.
I know that he's a good player.
This is something that's very consistent for me.
If you cannot play on my team because you're always hurt and I can't rely on you,
you are going to drop a couple steps.
And that's why Brogden is right there at third.
for me. Yeah. See, this is a consistent argument point in our list because I try to separate
health from it because I just hate when we harbor on people being unlucky with health injury
so much and pretend they're not good. And you're like, listen, if you're not there, you're not
there. So this leads to a lot of difference in placements. Some people are just unlucky. And if that's
you, I don't get away from my franchise. Too bad. I'm so sad. I love hope you all have
T. T.J. McConnell here for sure. Do you guys have Tice Jones up higher? Did you not include them?
Yeah, I put them higher
I've put them a little higher
Oh okay interesting
Alright let's go the next one
We have quite a disparity here
Between my list and y'all's in this year
Okay let's see
Who's your next five
So my next five
At 25 I have Chris Paul
24 Fred Van Vleet
23
Tice Jones
I was in absolute hell
Trying to figure out where to put
Emmanuel quickly
And I wish I put him higher
And at
Isaac you know what's funny as you know what's funny right before what did what did I say I said
Mo I don't know what you what you have but your 20 but your number 24 is disgusting and I was
right how is Fred Van Vlee at 24 that's disrespectful to Fred Van Vlee that's so wild is it
is he he's so much closer to the mid he's so much closer to the middle of the pack than being
towards the bottom of the list.
You put him one spot ahead of Chris Paul,
who we're projecting is going to get better.
Fred Van Vleet is much better than Chris Paul right now.
Yeah, I think you sleep on him a little bit.
I think he's closer to like the Dejante Murray range than he is to the Tice Jones range.
Having Tice Jones above him is wild.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I just see Fred Van Vleet and like his archetype.
And of course, like, Chutele III's place all.
a defense or whatever doesn't you know get to the room much and shit like that and I'm just like
damn you can't really do too much with that type of player and I don't know how far he can
take you as one of the main options on the team but of course you don't look at you don't look
at him like that point point blank in general so maybe I should have had him higher him I think he's like a
premier role player he he's like a premier role player for a team that needs a point guard that
will like elevate not elevate those around him but be able to fit well and like he's a
floor razor more than anything I think you know that's why the Rockets got him brought him in to
help get these young dudes in line because they were playing fake basketball under stephen silas
but yeah he had a very efficient year well let me say that very efficient for his standards because
he's not efficient at all as a little guy who doesn't score at the rim but he had a 56% true
shooting which is about league average and 17.4 points per game 8.1 assist 3.1 rebounds 1.4
steals 38% from 3 and he's a solid defender like I just think he's a very solid player
he's like small de jante i think
yeah
like in terms of like
where you cast them in the NBA
sure i can agree to that
i just see his play style and i just don't like how
not his play style i i enjoy his way
style i just don't like how he's
casted currently in being
one of the main guys i think it's just one of those situations
where he's just i mean he's on a reboding team he looks a little worse
exactly i know
if you if you put him alongside like janis or some shit like that
or lebron or some big wing then
I probably feel a lot different about him.
We need next to Kauai again.
Exactly.
The last time he had a big wing, they won a chip.
So it's like I can, I can see that.
But yeah, 24 is kind of wild.
Tys at 23 is fine.
Emmanuel quickly at 22.
I don't hate that.
I wanted to put quickly higher.
I generally have no idea who the hell is better between Kobe White and
Emmanuel quickly.
Are these guys in the same exact year or is he manual quickly doesn't actually like that because it's playing me?
They're definitely in the same tier.
I put quickly a little bit higher
quickly I thought I was pretty impressed by his passing
when he got to Toronto
you know obviously when he was to the Knicks
he wasn't in a playmate can roll by any stretch of the imagination
right he was a bench combo guard
he was averaging 2.5 assists per game
for those first 30 games but then he got
to the Raptors 6.8 assists per game
that was a big jump to me that I stood out watching that
like you could tell that he had that in his game he just wasn't really empowered
to do so and I think Kobe White
is you know not really a passer
at all like not to say can't he's not a
black hole. But that's not a release role. He's kind of in the role that quickly goes before
where he's like the combo guard go get a bucket guy. And again, not Kobe White's fault. Maybe he could
also make that leap if needed. But I think that's a pretty big difference in value between what
they've shown so far. Yeah. Okay. I agree. I think what I did trust in more. I liked Kobe White's
ability more to get downhill and use his size and be more physical. For sure, I think that's what
lean me more his way, but
I can understand if people have a man you
quickly high because of this money making. That's truly
valuable. Dude, a manual quickly shot 39.5%
from three on seven attempts
per game in Toronto. That's
legit high volume shooting.
Only problem is he shot 44% on twos.
He was just breaking at the room
when he got there. And that's, I think
that's uncharacteristically low. I think that'll get better when
he gets more used to being a premier guy. That was the biggest
difference is him and Scottie Barnes
both had some growing pains at
their own shot against, like, tough defenses that really focus in on them, especially getting
to the rim from mid-range.
I trust that that will get better going in next year.
I hope so, man.
I hope so.
Chris Paul's high.
I respect it, but I want him to be so good next year.
Maybe being next to when people will help him really showcase his strengths still because
he's still a good passer and whatnot.
But, man, he was cooked last year.
He looked washed.
Well, one thing you can say, you can say positively about Chris Paul is that when he was on the
court the warriors were not seismically worse like they usually are whenever step is off the court
and that was an that was an issue that he was immediately able to fix because he's just simply one of
the smartest players of all time he's not going to make too many too many mistakes not to not take
too many risk and all that and so yes like his decline in athleticism the little athleticism that he
had left in his game has completely vanished but just simply making the right reads in that
hectic warriors offense in my mind still makes him one of the better point guards in the NBA
today. And that's why I just put him to high, especially, and I'm also like factoring what
he's going to do in San Antonio next year because we all believe that's going to be like
fireworks. Yeah, I hope so, man. I hope he has one more great year and the left of him.
Great for his standards, obviously. We're not having all for Chris Fall, walk through those
doors over again. But I hope he could do some. My next five. At 21, I got Jalen Suggs, at 22
Marcus Smart, 23, Mike Conley.
24 de angelo russell and 25 emmanuel quickly now i can be convinced we quickly higher for sure in those
i think if we project what we saw in those raptors games and assume he'll get better at some things
you struggled with we can project them to be higher for sure but you know we i'm waiting to see how
the shot creation against you know number one option type of defenses looks because like i said
the two point percentage was terrible there he was throwing up bricks but also that raptors team was
very ugly after that trade.
They just had a lot of guys
trying to figure out new roles
and didn't flow well
so I don't entirely blame him
but I'm going to give him time to prove it
because I think some of the guys above him
are just like known commodities
and have high floors
especially in the regular season.
Interesting.
Okay.
I don't hate it
because I think a lot of our picks
are also kind of similar
in terms of this tier.
The one that, you know,
I'll say that I have high,
I have Mike Conley higher
then uh then let's just show you wow oh so go ahead and do you i do yeah so i mean i okay here
he goes so i've i also have quickly at 25 i have tice jones at 24 um de angela russell at
23 Kobe white at 22 and then jalen sugs at 21 um yeah i wanted i wanted to push jalen sucks
high now listen i am consistent that's his guy though i that's his guy yeah i died on the jail
Sucks Hill last year. I'm like, yo, you did.
I know we say this about anybody, but if this
dude can shoot fucking 35%
on the three point line, he's going to transform
himself as a player and be viewed as one of the more
valuable players in the entire NBA.
And he fucking did that. And you were right. You were precisely
right. Dude, he did that
and more, right? Like, at 21, I feel like
I struggle with this a little bit. I struggle with him
versus Marcus Smart. Because they're both
some of the strongest defenders of the position.
Same guys. This year.
I went with him because, like you said,
he shot 39.7% from three
on 5.1 attempts a game.
Just a legit, really good shooter,
great cutter, can get to the rim,
just a really smart, valuable player
to play next to stars.
And, you know, we have a lot,
we have a bias towards people
that can create with a ball in their hands,
but I don't always think that's more valuable
because if you're a guy like Marker Smart
who can pass a little bit,
do things with the ball,
I've come to learn that that's not always more valuable
than a guy who can fit
next to other ball handlers
who are more talented.
Smart isn't good enough
that you want the ball in his hands, right?
you want the ball in John Moran's hands
and Desmond Bain's hands
and Deemannetti's hands
all these other guys
so you want a guy that can really thrive next to him
so you want a guy that can really play
next to those other stars
and I think Suggs feels that role better
and that's more valuable to me
when both of them are going to be
middle tier as creators
so who's going to be the better off ball player
and that's way more important to me with Sugs
yeah that's that's fair
I think we have them at the same spot
but it's kind of for different reasons
just because I think that when I think about point guard play,
I think about somebody who does like, you know,
traditionally have the ball in their hands and can create for others a little bit.
And for Suggs, like, I look he, now that I'm looking at it,
I do want to put him just a little bit higher because he's just like insane amount
of dog in him.
Yeah.
But like the way, the way that he plays is just crazy.
And the way that he defends is wild, I just look at the playoff series that,
that the magic just went through and Suggs is like that you know he's like the the point guard but not really and if the playmaking can take another step I can probably see him like you know rising up this other step he is that's what's I'm saying he's like literally yeah he's up he's up there I think that that's the next step for him and so you can go honestly as high as like 17 for me like if you want to put him in the next tier that's that's fine but yeah he's legit like all defense
guy like he's like a Caruso level defender almost like he's really great at that role as being
a screen navigator as being a guy who can guard some bigger players like that that defensive value alone
can make him top half of this list and I wouldn't be mad at it. Interesting part is you know they signed
KCP so you can't really have two non-playmakers at both your guard positions so they're
going to really be relying on him to you know become an actual point guard he's listed at point
guard I'm ready for point guards he's essentially a shooting guard right Powell's kind of the point
guard in traditional sense in half court but they need him to make that leap because if not
they're not going to have enough passing on that starting lineup that's a hundred and ten
percent of truth that's the next as the lone person in the jalen sucks fan club that is the next
i'm with you though i'm with you here now trance and yeah feel like i'm i'm with you now
no listen nobody said you were wrong about it the three point shot comes along he'll be great
we just need to see that shit first and we saw it so
I'm with you.
Jalen sucks is awesome.
Yeah.
Who else stands out here?
Mo,
you have Ty Jones really high.
Oh,
you both have Ty Jones higher than me.
So I guess I'm in the minority there.
Yeah,
nobody else really talked about this year.
I'm surprised that I have quickly
way higher than you guys,
to be honest with you.
I thought I had him a little bit too well
because of the league that you took,
fortunately,
it was just,
yeah,
I don't mind it.
It was just the fact that when he did go to Toronto,
like stepping into that new role,
he still has,
like now that that is his job,
there's still kind of a another step for him to take there and so I just couldn't I couldn't put him
above you know some of the other guys at and I think if I at this point I might reconsider
quickly over Delo I think I might flip that if I could do this again I think I kind of convinced
myself and I really thought about it some more so I might be a little bit closer to you like
yeah between those two I'm not mad at I'm not mad at it I'm not mad at it Donovan here
your next five talk us through this uh here we go so i have jante murray at 20 i have mike connolly at 19
kade cunningham at 18 fred fred van bleat at 17 and darius garland at 16 the biggest thing that's
standing out to me is mike conley at 19 that is high 37 38 year old has you on a lease right now
and this what is going on between you and mike conley this is what is going on a leash is crazy
Wow
Hey when did you get that blanket
Where'd that come from?
I didn't even see that
You done
It was on the ground
I just got cold
How the fuck that blanket
Come from
All right anyways
So I have Mike Conley at 19
Mike Connolly is
Especially when I think about like
20 through 30
You are thinking about
Guys who you know
Are just role players
there are guys who you know you're trying to fit next to other stars how how much can you can you
impact the game off uh you know playing off of off of other high level guys and i feel like
mike connolly how many how many teams need a mike connolly how many teams could benefit massively
and take another step if they have mike connolly as their point guard rather than whoever
that they have right now like if the sons had mike conley they were they would
they would be on a on a different level if the pelicans had mike connelly instead of cj mccullum if you had a
whole bunch of these other teams having this veteran point guard who can play next to other stars can hit big
shots and and can just not mess up and keep things steady they would go so much further and i think
that mike connolly slides into so many um systems into the league i'm i'm perfectly okay putting him over
every you know a lot of other guys who are still growing and building their their persona their game
and all this other stuff my connolly and it's 19 it's fine like he's still second half of the league
but i i like mine connolly a lot mike connolly had a 62% true shooting this year he was absurdly
efficient obviously on like low usage so it's not like he was you know it's not as impressive
as it might seem but yeah he took his shots he made that motherfucker 45% from three and uh he was
And you hate him.
And you hate him.
I can't put him above Dejante Murray.
That's a bit much for me.
But I do think, like I said earlier,
there's something to the fact that people have a bias towards like,
what can he do with his number one option?
What can he do with the ball in his hands?
And that's always like the way people view it.
And sometimes that doesn't fucking matter.
Right?
Sometimes it's, you need to be practical.
And there's so much value to knowing the role a player would play.
And you know Mike Collin, like you said,
playing next on Anthony Edwards,
playing as to a cat,
being the tertiary guy,
he can provide a ton of value in that role.
And it's so important to have guys.
in that role like it's not the guys that play the off ball roles aren't inherently less
valuable because the balls on their hands like you need those guys you need to Derek white
you need to Drew Holiday who can fill that space and provide the utmost value it's like a
value of replacement thing where sure Luca Donchich is way more valuable than the average
ball handler obviously but some guys are way more valuable than the average role player
the average non-ball handler and Mike Colleen is one of those guys yeah I agree I can like
not to not to like slander him or whatever
but like brain and eager was a fantastic player of course but there's so many teams that
would kindly reject his services because he isn't as yeah exactly because he isn't as like
he's not as plug in play you kind of have to deconstruct your entire offense because he is
the type of guy who likes to yeah not go within the flow of the offense to create his own flow
which just disrupts overall rhythm and mike conley he just flows with it
and he helps find
exactly
it's kind of like
yeah it's it's
it's why macaille bridges
is more valuable
than brand ingram right
because he can play off ball
can play the game
of the stars around him
where like where's what you said
brandon ingram needs a ball
in his hands
I need to play his specific style
that makes mackle bridges
more valuable
and the same reason
why Mike Conley
is more valuable
than say DeAngler Russell
yeah 100%
so
so
shout out Mike Conley
wow
wow
you have VanVleet
seven spots higher
than Mo
yeah
I mean of course
of course
Van Bleet is good
he's a good
he's a good player
I have
you're right
16 and have
Darius Garland
17 Drew Holiday
18 Kunningham
19 Dejante Murray
and 20 Fred Van Vleet
we're seeing things out of eye
in terms of just
same guys in the tier list
I like that
okay
oh yeah we got Cunningham
and Garland in the same spot
okay
and I like
yeah okay
this is my hardest range
I struggled so mightily
with Garland Holiday Cunningham
specifically those three I rearranged like five times
Think about how different those players are
Darius Garland and Kay Cunningham
Oh see Darius Garland we've seen
Be an All-Star we know he has a dinoem
He's coming off of an unhealthy year
Where he really struggled because of injuries
So he stocks on an all-time low
I tried not to overreact to that
But I hadn't moved down a little bit
Drew Holiday
Coming off of a great year playing a specific role
But so much less is being asked of him than used to
So trying to figure out how to balance
that and then Cade Cunningham who made a legit improvement this year but is in the worst possible
team construction that I've ever seen a point guard being his specific skills you cannot have a
worst team to fit around Cade Cunningham than he has right now it's literally impossible to have
less shooting around him like by definition they have the worst shooting you could possibly imagine
across the roster so how do you balance that and not holding that too far against them
which is a really hard trio to gauge yeah I agree it's funny because like you said
Garland, Holiday, and Cunningham, there, we each, we all know how good they can be.
They, for all other reasons, for different reasons, of course, they're just not like,
they haven't reached their full potential just yet.
Garland with the health issues and the Donovan Mitchell Finn drew holiday.
Of course, he's good and he didn't necessarily progress or decline.
Just playing in a reduced role in Cunningham, he's in basketball hell.
And there's nothing that you can say about that other than he's in hell.
Yeah.
So I like the order of that personally.
It's tough, man.
I felt inclined to put Drew Holiday the highest, right?
I felt like that was the safest pick
is put Drew Holiday above Dary's Garland
because, you know, Darius Garland went outside
in the playoffs, struggled in the second half of the year
after breaking his jaw.
And obviously, Drew Holliday is a champion.
Drew Holladies, one of the best defensive guards of all time
was in the running for finals MVP for the first few games.
Everything on the surface looks like picked Drew Holiday, right?
All the indicators are there and not get yelled at.
But I just don't want to overact too much to Darius Garland
having a, like I said, unhealthy year
on a team that has a wonky fit
and whose coach completely lost the locker room
couldn't get those players in the right
those pieces in the right places
this is we know who Dary's Garland is right
if we thought he was amazing at 23 and 24 years old
we don't got to pretend he's worse now that he's 25
well actually he's younger than that move all those numbers down
but you know what I mean like he didn't get worse in his fourth year
yeah okay that's that's fair
yeah I mean that's that's yeah that's the same reason
why I had Garland at 16 because honestly like
I normally think about Darius Garland as one of the better guards in the league in terms of,
and specifically being one of the guards, the point guards in the top half of the league.
I just had to, I had to knock him down just a little bit just because, like you said,
his stock is at an all-time low.
But I think, like, for the next three to four years, whenever we do these rankings,
you're going to see Garland closer to like 13, 12 rather than 16.
For sure.
And they're not going to do it now, but we know we all thought they were going to separate
this backcourt if they had done that and traded him away from donovan mitchell he would
immediately jump up the list he would if he got traded to the spurs a week ago next year i promise
you he would be like he'd be like 11 or 12 on this list he would fly up true i absolutely agree
it's all about situations man we got to take that into context who's your five let's see yeah
let's see what my five was looking like so at number 20 i have jalen suggs that's where he appears
i had them a little bit higher but not into you know crazy territory and then after that 19 drew
Holiday, 18 to Dante
Marie, 17, Derek White.
Very interesting, right thing.
Very, very interesting. He could easily
be hired, too. Same thing could be
said about Drew Holiday. In that, number
16, I have Kate Cunningham.
So obviously, you're too low. You're too low.
You're too low. Obviously, we're Derek White.
higher. But you know what?
Cade Cunningham versus Derek White.
Think about that specific duo, that
matchup. Derek
White has all the cachet to make
you say he's better than him, right?
He's the key part of a championship team
and the most dominant team we've seen in years
and Cade is on the fucking Pistons riding away.
But I don't think Derek White
is more talented than Cade Cunningham.
Like, it's the best situation versus the worst.
That's so tough.
Yeah.
Let's see how Derek White looks on the Detroit Pistons.
Let's see what his numbers,
his efficiency, his assist to turnover ratio
looks like.
I'd be very interesting.
He can get to the rim next to Jalen Duren
and Assar Thompson and Jaden Ivy.
Let's see if he can dunk some shit with that going on.
Listen, I don't make the rule.
I just play the game, all right?
Like, it's not my fault that Kay Cunningham is in Detroit.
I didn't choose that for him.
I would have put him in a better situation.
But, like, we're here now, and I know what I see.
And from what I'm seeing,
Kay Cunningham is just not in a position to where he can fully show all of his talents.
And Derek White is.
And so I think that, and even, like, and I mean, you know,
we'll talk about it a little bit more later because obviously, like,
I've Derek White higher.
But you've seen Derek White, even in like this role, you've seen him be able to grow more than what he, than what he has been, even offensively and like the stuff that people naturally gravitate towards in terms of being like to create on his own or knock down big shots.
That stuff has also come along as well as his defense being amazing.
So like you guys said, he's in a position where he can develop and become a better player.
and that just isn't the case for Kate Cunningham.
So sucks to suck, but what's like, we'll get there one day.
To me, though, is like last year he was hurt, but this year, of course, he was hurt as well,
but he had one of the more healthier seasons out of his three-year career.
He somehow, in the worst space, with having the worst basing the league, he somehow got better,
got more efficient when it comes to finish at the rim, whether it be his three-point shot
or free throw, free throw shot as well.
well. And seeing how he's been able to, especially when he came back off, back of his injury
during the second half of the year, seeing how he was able to navigate and literally just be the
6766 mismatch point guard that everyone droves over now feels like these days.
Pretty impressive. Pretty impressive. Yeah, I feel like we scoff at 22, 7.5 and 4.3 rebounds.
Like, we ignored the year he had as if he didn't get better because the pistons were so
embarrassing as an organization
that he wasn't shooting well from three
for the first years of his career
and we were like oh oh what does that mean
because the three point shot is a big part
of his allure as a prospect
this year he's up to 37% on threes
excluding garbage time in heaves
which I'm looking at cleaning glass that's why it's a little bit higher
than his actual average of 35.5
37% excluding heaves
pretty good
the problem is he can't get to the fucking rim at all
and is that because he doesn't have a lead burst
or is because he has zero spacing
probably a little bit of both
but that spacing doesn't do him any justice
oh boo-hoo
sorry Cade
sorry Cade
and like the passing he's a good
passer how do you show it when everybody's in the paint
and every time you kick out to the perimeter
they're missing the threes
like he's gonna go from 7.5 to 8.8
overnight if there's just league average
shooting around him
Tobias is about to get this man
a double-digit assist
every single game.
Shout out to my say.
Yeah, that's hilarious.
So you have Drew Holiday at 19.
Obviously, Donovan hasn't been in top 15.
I had him at 17.
Why is he so low for you?
Because I view him in the same range as Jalen Suggs.
Insanely aggressive offensive player.
Or insanely impressive defensive player,
but the offense is genuinely inconsistent
and can be concerning at times now he proved us wrong in the playoffs or in the finals and he
was one of the three names that you would select when he comes to picking him as a finals MVP but
when i look at him and a season in a totality and just his player archetype and i just know who
this dude is i because of his offensive consistency limitations i put dejante d white and
cunningham higher because they are other parts of their game i value
more than what Drew Holiday brings.
I think the Dejante versus
Holiday conversation is exactly what we're talking
about with Ingram versus Bridges.
Dejante needs that motherfucker in his hands.
He needs the rock. He needs to dribble it.
He needs to take his mid-range shots, do his ego
style of play. He hasn't bought into defense
in years. Whereas Holiday
doesn't need that at all. Holiday is
perfectly fine, taking three shots in a game,
but locking up every single possession
on the court, having a head full
of steam every single time the ego is on the
court on defense, locking up a luke with Don
shit and then coming back staying in the corner like this for 10 minutes like he's okay doing the
dirty work and I just think that's so valuable to winning yeah I agree I can agree to that if you
wanted to flip those two like I wouldn't care because it's literally just one one spot but
I see I see to Dante Murray and I am sick to my stomach for obvious reasons just so I'm
got traded from my Atlanta Hawks and I think that if he was in a better situation and position
I think we view him
a little bit more
but more valuable
and just more versatile and flexible
I think what we saw
yeah
what he was on Atlanta
it just makes him look
a little bit worse
than what he actually is
dude 100%
Dejante and Troy Young
being together
just nukes each other's stock
they were just at war
with each other
for ruining each other's reputation
like we talk
Trey Young is the most
hated on player
in the league right now
and that didn't start
until Dejante Murray
walked through those fucking doors
and now Dejante Murray
is the most
people are saying
he's an overrated defense
he was never that great that didn't happen until he walked through tra young's doors like they are so
bad for each other and now that they're being separated again i try to give him a little credit for that
too just a toxic relationship and now now you know they they're they're they're going to break up
they're going to get healthy they go into therapy everything's going to be good i like this
everybody wins i like this one exactly okay what else do we talk about on this tier i think we're
yeah we talk about everybody here anything else to stand out to you guys i just can't believe
No, I think I think we're good.
And I am sad that I didn't put breath.
Don't disrespect my Connolly, man.
Stop disrespect.
When did you become the Mike Conley guy?
When did you become the Mike Connolly much?
I mean, he's textbook.
So I can, I see the correlation between him and Donovan.
Is Donovan textbook?
Yeah.
What does that mean?
He likes text.
Fundamental players.
Players that don't do too much.
Yeah, exactly.
I guess they don't know about the drop step.
We talked about it.
They don't.
They don't.
they don't understand
they don't understand
Mike Conley gets it
and that's why he gets
to my respect
you can't hate on it
exactly next year
11 to 15
we're getting to the top half
of this list
if you're still here
halfway through
comment they don't know
about the drop step
and Mike Connolly gets it
comment that
if you're still here
halfway through
so at 11
I have Deeran Fox
at 12 James Hardin
13 Jamal Murray
14 lamello ball
I almost said Lonzo ball
RIP and 15 Derek White
What are we thinking
Okay, so
Lemella ball is that low for
For obvious reasons
No one needs to say anything
Super inconsistent with his health
We did see him make a leap
And he was looking like a superstar
Because he was really getting to that rim
And using his six, seven body
But he only played like 20-some games or whatever
Can't really
Yeah, that's sick
Can't really say too much about that.
Only 22 games, man.
But yeah, he was definitely looking a lot better this year.
In the year prior, in which he only put 36 games, which is disgusting for back-to-back
years, he only got to the rim on 23% of his shots.
That's not good.
That is very poor.
Same type of thing as early career Lonzo ball.
These guys cannot get to the rim.
But this year, in those 22 games, 32% of his shots at the rim.
His efficiency didn't really change there.
He's still not great, but he was getting there a whole lot, and that's half the battle.
He needed to get the higher volume on top of already being a really good shooter, obviously.
Dude, I think Lonello Ball is like
The most frustrating player development story in the league right now
Him or Zion obviously
He could be one of the best guards in the entire NBA
The way that he could be 6-7 can get to the rim
Be an elite shooter and elite passer
Very few players occupy all those traits
It's like him
Luca
Tyrese
Harden I guess a little bit shorter
Tyrese like it's a tiny list of the best of the best
best creators I have the full package of the score and a
passer with the size. He should
be there, but he has had no time
to develop his skills because he's played
58 games in two years. That is
so frustrating. That's going to do so much
harm for his long-term development to lose these
early reps that he could be gaining at this young age.
It makes you want to rip my fucking hair
out that we're losing what could be like an
all-time talent, and he's just
his ankles just won't allow it to happen.
That big ball of brand program
is not legit.
That's the that's the
That's the one thing LeVar messed up on
It was them ankles
It's tough
Too much damn Del Taco
They love Del Taco
How do you guys
This was another hard one for me
Was Fox Hardin Murray
Hardin's very hard to rank right now
There's so much negative biases in your head
About James Hardin
And how he's like taking a step back
But I feel like he bought into that role
For sure this year
And was like fully deferent
To the two star scores he played next to
and really bought in as like a passer
who could have this war and pick his own spots
he was crazy efficient because he wasn't shooting
nearly as often and his passing was excellent
and I feel like defensively
listen he's James fucking hard and he's never going to be great
but I don't think he slacked off like that
under Tyler Lou I thought he was completely fine
he was competent
I think in this role and especially when you consider the fact
that Paul George is gone he's going to get back to being a higher
you should score I think we're in for a really big James Harden year
I agree it is so hard to
first and foremost I want to say Deering Fox should be 11
I think that's a perfect spot for him.
But it's so hard to compare and contrast James Hardin and Jamal Murray's game
because they're both like utterly different in quite literally.
I don't say the inverse of each other, but like, yeah, like James Hardin gets it started
and Jamal Murray finishes it.
He doesn't get shit started for real.
Exactly.
So.
I don't know.
I generally don't yet.
You said Derek White was?
No, Deeran Fox.
He had a big.
bad year for his standards man you're right he did compared to last movie absolutely he did two
years ago dude every year his amount of shots taking at the rim is going down i don't know if he's
losing as athleticism at the ripe age of 25 but we go back dude in 2020 42% of his shots came
at the rim absurd number just a rim demon next year 33% the next year in his all-star year
29% it's going down every year because he's becoming a better shooter that's fine next year which is
2023 year before this one
24%. Then this year
19% of his shots coming
at the rim. That is really bad.
And then obviously last year, remember
when he made the All-Star game and we were talking about him
was like, oh shit, is he like a top eight point guard?
He shot 77% at the rim.
That's better than Luca. That's better
than LeBron. That's Yonis territory.
77% is ridiculous.
It was the highest of any guard by far.
This year he'd gotten to 67%.
Like in terms of volume and efficiency
he did not create the rim like he did before.
three point shot was better 37 percent the mid-range shot fell off and you know that was a bit inconsistent when he hit all those ridiculous clutch shots last year to win clutch player the year the year that wasn't quite the same level just a weird down year from him it's it's so weird because he was down in a lot of aspects that make him great and that's what like is his bread and butter that's what he's known for that's his niece get to the rim put people in the fucking blender put him in the basket but yeah you know seeing him improve from the three point line oddly enough I think he shot like seven or eight per
game like you said on 38 37% from the three point line that is like that is a real leap that
he made on that end of four when it comes to his off-the-bouncer boom shit like that but it's
seeing that rise up while his while what he's really good at take a steep decline kind of nets him
out at like the normal deer in fox range where we all think he usually is at and i mean the three-point
shot's cool but it's his superpower like even with that three-point advancement
he's like a good shooter but he's not like one of the best or anything he is one of the best rim scores
when he's looking how he did a year and a half ago so like that is what carries into being in the top 10
ranges like i'm giving him ben for the doubt that maybe that are improved next year by keeping him
at 11 and really the biggest thing is 12 13 14 you know all kind of regressed this year in terms
of perception charmaury didn't have his insane playoff performance like he did in the title year
james hardin's old as fuck lamello can't stay healthy deering was worse this year but nobody behind him
really took a leap to pass him up
so I didn't drop him too far
but I'm not super encouraged by that
because if he's not going to be
the best rim scoring point guard
outside of Shakedos Alexander
hard for me to view him
as like a top end talent
interesting
okay
who's next
he's kind of just like Deerran
he's basically Dejante Murray
if he's not going to have that
it's kind of the similar player
his super that's what I'm saying
like every player in the NBA
needs to have something
that they are outstanding at
that is how you claim
who you are, whether it be honest
and his impactful scoring in the paint.
Yokitin is passing, LeBron and the
myriad of things that he's just like
insane at, stuff with his shooting.
Like, everyone has their
thing that they're like, nah, I'm one of the best
in league when he comes to that. And for Deerran Fox,
like no one's going to call him one of the best shooters.
It doesn't matter. Like, he gets you 40% of the
three on like eight attempts per game. No one's
still going to call him the best shooter in the NBA
ever. Yeah. But when it comes to his
rim scoring, different conversation.
For sure. And listen, maybe
there's some other factors maybe he's doing with injuries i don't remember maybe he's not
he did do with injuries you are correct about that yeah so you deal with that's one
it's not all doom and gloom he could come back and no return to form next year but
noticing exactly sadly i'm next up noticing that he wasn't even the best part on his team
for the entire of the year and that says something because that other guy is not that great
so next up i have of course d'air and fox at number 11 Jamal murray
at 12. At 13, I have
Lonzo Ball, or Lamello Ball, 14 James Harden,
and 15 Darius Garland. So I think you guys had Darius Garland
on the last tier, and I put him above here because
I know who Darius Garland is to his core, and
I know his superpowers and all the things. One spot ahead of us.
Yeah. But other than that, I think we have,
it looks like me and you, Isaac, have the same tier of players
just jumbled up a little bit. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, no, you viewed, I think we view Darius Garland in the same way as you do.
We just put Derek White higher because we really value him being like the best role player in the league and you didn't.
So that's the only difference there is that we put Derek White up higher.
Otherwise, we view Darius Garland exactly the same, I think.
So I'm glad to see it.
Darius Garland is getting way too much hate.
He needs to be respected.
I agree.
Listen, the respect, it's going to happen, right?
When he gets healthy again, he's going to be fine.
It's on the way.
But right now, listen, sometimes you got to go through stuff.
So he'll be right.
People treat him as Pablo Brigioni.
It's not all right.
Oh my God.
Yeah, I don't hate Mosulis.
Okay, this is pretty much in line with mine.
Let's look at the next one that we can discuss more.
Yeah.
All right.
So I have Drew Holiday at 15.
I've Carrie at 14.
Derek White at 13.
Jamal Murray at 12 and James Hardin at 11.
And this would not be a TD3 list.
If one of us didn't leave somebody off the list,
And Lamella ball, accidentally.
Didn't I miss my lips?
I thought he did it on purpose.
It was accident.
No, I, no, I completely forgot about, listen,
Lamella has not played in the last two years.
I forget what it looks like watching him play basketball.
I think, I think now, now, he wouldn't be on this tier.
I think I would have Lamello at like 16, though.
Okay.
Just because, I thought that he was so injured that you were doing it as a bit.
that you were like listening is not available ever so he's not on my list ever no no no but yeah he would
be in like that garland um yeah and like that garland at 15 16 just because i truly don't know
if like going forward if you have this young player that you are trying to build around if he's
going to be available and like he could be a step curry your ankles can eventually get better and
you can be healthy i'm not sure if that's going to happen but as for 11 through 15 like drew holiday
role player
demon right
Kyrie at 14
Derek White
again
that's the issue
right there
why no
let's not
beating around the bus
here
what oh my goodness
why is
Kyrie Irving at number
14
ahead of Derek
white you think
Derek White
has
you think James Harding
is currently
better than Kyrie Irving
crack
cocaine
permethazine
Jamal Murray's
better than
Kyrie Irving
they're the same
type of player
you'd rather have
Jamal Murray than Kyrie? Yes, I would.
What? You're lying. Oh, my God. Why? I'm being a hundred percent real. I'm being a hundred
percent rule. I think that, listen, now for for Jamal, if you want to move him down to 13, right,
where you guys had him, that's fine. I think, I think that Jamal is the premier case of
why you have to be like very cautious about the playoff risers, because if you go a year when they
don't rise in the playoffs, then it gets to be kind of crazy.
But I do think that Jamal Murray, he was dealing with an injury throughout the playoffs.
He had the gap stuff.
But even still, he had the ability to shoot four for 15 throughout the first three quarters.
And then all of a sudden, five minutes left on the clock.
And that Jamal Murray is like, okay, yeah, I'll just hit three out of four shots.
And I'm going to hit two game winners in a series.
And I'm going to do all this.
And it's going to be fine.
I think that Kyrie, we're seeing the best version of him.
and throughout the playoffs we saw him lock in and play defense
Kyrie also was very inconsistent
and the finals for the finals
the finals for Kyrie the road games awful
if you want to just put that off on hey he's going back to Boston it's a tough
place to play he has all that history he was just in his head okay fine
how do you explain the two series before that
where he's scoring nine points in games
he's not he's not being you know the most talented back court of all time we were saying that
and you were one of the people who was pushing back on it because karee's not he's not like you know
he's not scoring 25 every night the same way that some of the other guys are and i think that now
that he's playing next to luka you know who is one of the best players in the league now he's back
in his second you know in his second tier era and that's fine but i'd rather have i'd much rather
have Derek White on my team think I rear ring I'd rather have I'd rather I'd rather I'd rather
have James Hardin James Hardin again I already know nobody's going to slander him more than me
but for what Isaac said wow for for what Isaac said the fact that he was able to go to LA
and buy into everything that that they were doing we've seen him over the last three years
completely say hey I'm not the James Hardin of old I'm not going to be able to go
out and get you 30, but I can still come in and facilitate the offense and I will willingly
take a step back. And I think that there is something to be said for that. And that's why I have
James Hardin still as a very impactful player. I think that the Clippers are just cursed and
they have Paul George and Kauai who also aren't healthy. And that's also a big reason why they
couldn't make it out the first round. But there's James Hardin is he's still really, really good.
Okay. So if you're starting a team today, you're a GM, you have a number one overall pick.
all right and it comes to your time
you're an expansion team or whatever you're taking
Derek White over Kyrie Irving right now
yes yes
wow
I am with a straight face
I am
wow
listen okay I get it
if you're gonna go on a stance that
chiro ring is going to be inconsistent so you don't want
them you're probably going to age into being right
given the track record so I understand you
it's it's not the worst
to hill to pick
You know, like, history is shown
if LeBron's not on the team, you're going to age
into being right. So I get it.
But, again, we know
Kyrie Irving can't be the best player on a championship team.
None of these guys in this role can, right?
And I also think it's been proven that
if he's the second option and everything clicks,
he doesn't tweet out any links to
controversial subject matter.
He doesn't get himself banned from Barclays Arena
for controversial decisions.
Nothing like that.
goes down, he's going to be the best second option you can want in a score from a score
next to a star player, right? In 2021, if all that shit didn't happen, they probably would have
walked to the finals. Last year, they were in the finals. Like, that means something. And obviously
they lost to Derek White, so maybe pulling out resume. It's not the best thing to say. But,
you know, he played really well last year, and I know he was inconsistent in the playoffs.
That inconsistency is why he's 14. And that's, I mean, I'm 14. That's why he's like in the late
tens and not like up higher, right? Because if he was consistently,
the best version of Kyrie Irving
that he would be a top five point guard in the league
we just know he's not
so that's kind of baked into it
and that's why he has to be the second option
usually players have to be second options
because they can't be consistent
against topping coverages
that's like the biggest difference
so I still think that Nets him out
in like 9 or 10 range
it feels disrespectful to a ceiling
to put him at 14 when we know
that the good comes with the bad
for Derek White though
like you talk about putting
Kyrie next to another
you know another point guard
like the
the level to which Derek White can complement another guard like a Kyrie Irving like a lot of a lot of
the top guards it's very hard for them to be number one on offense number one on defense
guarding the other point guards if you have Luca or Steph or Jalen Brunson or Jaya or Trey or any
of these guys who are higher up on this list they are not defensive stoppers and if you say hey
we're going to have that guy who can create all the offense and then as our number two we're
going to put Derek White, who can, who can cover their man and still give you 16 to 17 and still
make, uh, you know, still have a, a pretty, you know, solid playmaking. That back court would be
more valuable and that back court would be better suited to make a, to make a deeper run. It's great.
Listen, if you can get Luca who is six, seven and Kyrie, that's, that's, that's crazy. But a lot of
the other point guards are not. And so if you have Kyrie and another one of the other point guards,
you have a better version of, you know, of DeMitch and Darius Garland or Dame and CJ and you have a very high offensive ceiling, everybody else has to be a defensive stopper.
You have, you put so much defensive pressure on everybody else on your team that I think that Derek White being in that back court helps you build a more well-rounded team.
I respect Derek White because if you want to, if the hill you're dying on is that you want the guy that's a two-way player and that is just like doesn't need the ball in his hands.
I respect that same logic we had for like Drew Holiday being high and stuff like that
Don't have a problem with that that's fine
That's just a difference in what you want from a role player or you just rather
You just rather Jamal Murray be the one that he's above instead of Kyrie
Yeah like I don't see the logic with Joe Murray there then
Derek White I disagree on Derek White but I get that perspective of player be more valuable to you
I feel like Jamal Murray and Kyrie are in the same exact type of player and like
said the playoff riser thing is dangerous
I'm coming to realize
the playoff riser thing is hard
because I am realizing
that sample size is super important
that we had a 15 game stretch
with Jamal Murray went nuts
next year that didn't happen
he was you know
he was cold
worse than his you know
regular season averages
hard to give someone too much credit
for small sample sizes
and we do that too often
in playoff risers I think
I kind of like
and that's what I think for me
like
because I think even after
last year
like I was
a little bit hesitant, but I wanted to put Jamal Murray higher.
And so coming into this ranking, I feel like putting him at 12 was dropping him a little
bit for me because of like the playoff stuff.
But even whenever, but even whenever he wasn't having a good game, he was still able to do
the Jamal Murray playoff stuff where he can still close.
And that, that to me was like, was good.
Whereas with Kyrie, if it was bad and if the shots off, like,
The shots off for the entire game, where Jamal Murray still has a little bit of hope where he could do the playoffs of.
So that's kind of why I had him at 12.
If you want to, if we want to put Derek White at 11, right, above, above, above Jamarie, I'm fine with that.
I'm completely okay.
Oh, my gosh.
If we, yeah, if I thought about it for like two more hours, I might get Derek White into 11.
Wow.
That was the complete opposite of what we're trying to do.
Derek White thing is hard
because listen people were trying to put him
in all-star combos last year
and I get it
He's not there he's not there
He's the best at his role
But it's really easy to gas a player in that role
When they just have so much less pressure on them
And again I tried to realize
That supplementary players matter
And there's value there
But there is something to our expectations
Of a player in a Derek White rule
versus a player in a higher role
Derek White had some stinker games
In the finals where he was not hitting shots
Nobody gave a fuck
Because he's the third and fourth option
And he has no pressure on him to perform
all we're doing is busy slandering
Jason Tatum slandering Kyrie Irving
who carries that bigger load like
we gotta keep in mind that Derek White's job
is a lot easier and it's very easy
to gloss over when he doesn't play well
Well look even the guys
White goes ahead and he gets a block
Always standing up clapping or he hits he goes ahead
And hits a clutch bucket after not
Scorn for like the last 15 minutes of the game
Like there we go
He's a timely player
He's a timely player
You know what I'm saying
And also and also
there's guys there's guys even in the top 10 that I look at and I recognize that right now
you're not a number one on a championship team so I think for anywhere from like 13 to
eight maybe even pushing seven it's okay if you aren't the number one and so now we start
talking about how are you as a complimentary player and some of them you know they're
1B 2A whatever you want to call it and they are like a level above but listen
Derek White is he's just good man he's he's just good yeah listen it's hard that there's always
bias to the most recent champion too it's always hard not to put the guys on top of high so
there's definitely a lot of reasons to put Derek white high right now just like there was last year
put Jerome Murray like top 10 or whatever like yeah it's hard not to ride that high when you just
saw a guy win at the highest level thanks I see it and I completely understand but then again like
this is the same guy who just average like 13 points and you saw like 38% from the field
Like I see what he's doing and was still clans and was and was still a better defender than every point guard on this list.
No fair not fair the defense not not named joll and yeah the defense gets him value when the shot doesn't fall that somebody like hardin or kairri or jemalm murray just don't have that crutch i absolutely agree but hardin and kary don't have the crutch of having jason satem jennon brown drew hollad and kp and all them boys so it's like i i see the value that he's that he's producing but i also.
see the value around him as well that makes his value look even like crazier to how Donovan's
perspective seeing him do your job do your do your job I think like that's also another big thing
we're like yes yes the and I mean we're listen we see it with everybody it really is a sliding
scale for how we grade every player but starring in your role and thriving in your role
if I know that Luca is this you know generational other work
worldly talent. Yes, I'm going to ask you to do some things that I'm not going to ask of
Deer and Fox. And you're just going to have to do it because that's who you are. Like,
you just have to do your job. And I think that being able to go from situation to situation
and still having the ability to do your job, that's also very impactful. And it can help
a lot of the other 30 teams. And if you put Derek White, if you take them off of Boston and you
put them in anywhere else, if you dropped them in Detroit, Detroit would be a better team. If they
had Derek White. Obviously, I'm not saying that he's going to come in and make them a 45 win
team, but they would be better. And you might have, and you might, and you might see, and if he was
playing with Kay Cunningham, you might see Kay Cunningham being in, in, you know, the top 15 rather
than in the 18, because we know that he might be better. Like, he just, he elevates a lot of other
floors. You can say the same exact thing about Kyrie Irving, put him in alongside Kayman. Wow, he gets
better. I don't know. I don't know. I think I know that. I think I know for a fact he'd make the
Pistons a lot better.
I don't know.
They would lose more games.
I don't know.
They would lose war games.
He's no Jaden Ivy.
Exactly.
He's not he's not Jaden Ivy.
That is true.
Moe, tell us you six to ten.
Rolling into six through ten.
All right.
So number six, I got Trey Young, seven,
Tyrese, eight,
Damien Lillard, nine,
Tyrese Halliburton,
and 10, Kyrie Irving.
Okay. This is a most of this range wasn't too hard for me, except for Damien Lillard.
Ranking Dame is tough right now. And you put him above Tyrese Hallibur. That that surprises me. I was trying to give Dame credit for some of the reason he's head about guys like Darius Garland and whatnot that
tries to overreact to one off year, but also he's 34. So maybe it's how do we gauge is this off year of Dame because he's getting old or because he was sad and out of shape living in Milwaukee?
Doc Rivers said he was on telotubby timing and I leaned to
towards more of that one I saw him in the playoffs giving folks like 35 in the first half back-to-back
games it's like all right yeah this dude and then what did he score for the rest of the game
we're not talking about that right now you know what I'm saying like how do you start how do you
start with 35 and then you scored 35 in the first quarter you end the game with 35 points like
come on come on that is nuts but yeah I I'm inclined to give dame at least one more year
He'll get used to playing with Janus a little bit more.
They'll have a full year of offseason under Doc Rivers.
He'll be in better shape.
I believe he'll look better next year.
I also won't be surprised if he's just getting old and he's small and he loses a step and it gets tough.
I can't.
I say to say, I can't put him above Tyrese Halliburton.
Really?
Okay.
The only reason why I put him above Tyrus Halliburton is because, okay, if you have real questions about Dean Miller's health and old age getting up there, fair.
that's fine but i think it's fair to go ahead and also assume because of the glimpses that
we've seen through him whether it be whenever janus was off out of the court and not playing
looks like a completely different player that's what i buy into damey and lord and that's for
tyrus halber and where i dock him at i think he has real issues when it comes to getting
to the rim and also having more unpredictability to his scoring like the stepback three is
nice uber valuable and he because of that in this passing like he's already one of the best
offensive guards in the entire NBA.
But what are you going to do when the defense takes that back from you?
What are you going to do when you have to get a little bit more creative and use that like
big body frame?
He has all the gifts and talents of the world.
He just hasn't reached that level just yet.
In November, we were saying Tyrese Albertan has cracked into the top five.
I don't think that anymore because obviously we know he got hurt and slowed down,
he never reached those heights.
And I agree with everything you just said.
The lack of variability of scoring punch shows.
and that's why I reconsidered that
and I put him lower like you did
I have him around the same range
that has to change
but also he's closer to six
than he has the 10 to me
because I think it's hard to understate
how valuable his playmaking is
they were in the conference finals for a reason
they were the most high powered offense
all year that could not be stopped
and a part of that is a system
the way the talent all around works together well
major part of that is Tyre's Halliburton's ability
to lead the team as a playmaker
and keep the ball moving
and really put people in positions
he's a really gift of pastor that gets that is like taken for granted a little bit that we kind of just like treat him like his assist or like system assist when I don't really think that's the case I agree I think that he's in I actually I actually forgot where I know I put him above nine so I forget where I had him but I do think that I had him closer to six than ten well let's see next up donovan here's your list I have dame at 10 Deeran fox at nine
Maxi at 8
Halliburton at 7
Tray Young at 6
I'll just
mine too
I have Tray Young at 6
Halliburton at 7
Maxi at 8
Dame at 9
and Kyrie at 10
Hmm
Wow
We and Donovan
are the same
In the top 3
We are
We and you both
have Kyrie at 10
because we don't hate him
And yeah
We have Liller at 8
9 and 10
We all split it there
Yeah it's tough
Like
Maxi versus Liller
was a tough spot for me
I feel fine
putting Tyrese one spot above Maxi.
I first I had Lillard above Maxi by one spot,
but I flipped the last second.
And I can't really tell you why.
I don't know.
I guess I'm just scared that maybe Dame's getting old.
That's why I think.
Yeah.
I agree.
I think there's nothing that you can go ahead and go against that because age is age.
It catches up to everyone.
Dame Miller still will be.
And also if you're just going based off of what Tyrese Maxi did and how he made
serious leaps to like solidify.
himself as a real star player can be a go-to guard on offense won't bog you down and has the
creativity and has been building into his in-between game to really add that versatility to his offense
i'd be fine with that my only problem is whenever joel and b got hurt and max had to be the one
option he was substantially worse and to be expected he's a not at that point of his development yet
where he can be the lead creator but also i don't know if i should hold that against him or just notice
the fact that the Sixers roster outside of Joel and Bede was fucking horrible and that team
was awful without him like maybe it's not his fault that he couldn't cook with Kelly Ubrein
to buy his hairs next to him like that that's a tough team environment to succeed in
this man had Nick Batum and Paul Reed and was like all right guys is it says three tonight like
yeah that's that's that's tough that's tough for Tyrese but yeah I think I think I think I'm kind
of out on dame um as as far out as you can be still having them in your in your top 10 just just
because we've seen over the last couple years last year wasn't the first time that we've seen
dame have physical stuff like kind of a hell him two years ago he had he had a very you know
injury riddled season um whether it was the it was the year that he was coming back or that
the whole league was coming back from from the bubble the weird like 21 season that year was
cut short because because of injuries he went in and played in the Olympics that also like he wasn't
the same because of injuries he dealt with that in 22 and whether he's old whether he's hurt
or whether his style of play just doesn't fit with another star that way like that's also kind of
kind of crazy that you think of dame as like diet step and this other you know very rangy shooter
who can play off a very talented big and this one two game is going to be the most dominant
in the league and neither of them could figure it out and I blame that on dame and I also blame it
on yannis as well but it's just it's a little weird I'm looking at the situation and as we
you know get further into the offseason I'm probably going to say it a lot but I'm not very
high on milwaukee going into next season because I don't know if dame and yonis are going to be
able to figure it out and I don't know if dame is going to be able to rise to that occasion the same way
that we've seen him do you know in years past so it might be it might be done for dame yeah
it's tough dame's amazing and like in the right situation prime dame couldn't like get you to a finals
but he's not a traditional player that you look at and be like you know the way we talk about it you
got to have a top five player in the world to win a championship you know that typical talking point
he's not quite at that level so if he can't fit next to one of those top five guys that's hard
for his value. Because, you know,
Kyrie, for all his flaws, has shown that he can,
he's malleable. He can play next to Kevin Durant,
LeBron James, Luke Donchitz, James Hardin,
even Jason Tatum and Jane O'Brien at one point, which is less
successful there. But, you know, he can play
with other guys that need the ball in their hands
and can succeed at doing the things he does
to an even better level. That doesn't really
destroy his value. If it does prove that that
destroys Danes value, like let's say they do another year of this and
doesn't fit next to the honest, but then they trade him and he
does well again by himself, then
that just means he's not portable and can't fit next to star players. And if you don't have that
scalability in your game, then it'll hold your value back. You know what Dame Miller has in his
game, though? He has a rap video on YouTube that he posted eight years ago that has 3.5 million
views titled Bigger Than Us. All right. He has features on features on features. He has bars.
He has Spotify plays, thousands of monthly listeners. Does Tyrese maxi have that?
No, not really how many of those streams are how many of those streams are real and how many of them are bought like he's been he's been getting paid max contract money for years. I know that he has access to the streaming farms. I know that all those thousand dimes jump and dimes you don't remember that that was a classic no no nobody remembers that that's the problem. That's awful.
Did y'all know that Hulu has light sports?
Oh man, he was swimming.
I hated that.
And I go like, he got me to get Hulu after that too.
He's susceptible to marketing.
I love that we all have Trey Young at six.
Again, people, he's so hated on because him and DeJante Murray don't fit.
And it's tanked their reputation around the league.
The team isn't confident around him.
They have not done a good job building a supporting cast.
He's never had an all-star.
everything has gone wrong there
and it's been attributed to Trey Young
as if it's his fault like he's this on-court cancer
and it's fucking dumb
he's so taken for granted
it's not so people say like
it's easy to score in this era
and easy to be more proficient offensively
because of spacing and whatnot so it's like people
will just assume that anybody can go out there
and average 30 and 10 for their career like he does
that's just not easy like he is one of the best
offensive talents we've seen in the league in the last decade
and we just forget about it because we don't like him
Shout out, Trey, he's free now.
Oh, yeah, he's free from the John T. Murray for sure.
In a similar light where, like, we've seen James Harden just glitch out the game and just figure things out and no angles like that specifically.
Trey Young's done a very similar thing.
Obviously not to those levels because James Hardin's quite literally all time, one of the greatest of all time.
And Trey Young's just 6'1 and he's like 170 soaking wet or whatever.
But with that being said, the combination of D.E.
range shooting the fantastic passing being one of the five seven best passes in the entire
NBA while also making real visual improvements defensively lands event number six very
comfortably from him happy y'all had him above Tyrese Halliborne because try young is the the amount of
buckets that he gets forcefully at such a tiny frame was so impressive to me yeah listen we were we were
Everybody was big in up Tyrese Halliburton early in the season
because he was averaging 27 points for game
on ridiculous efficiency with his passing.
And that was so impressive
because he was doing what Trey O'Ong already does,
but he's also 6'6.
So it was like a little bit less potential negatives there.
Now, we've all come to accept that he's also a cone,
so that doesn't give him the advantage there
that we once thought maybe.
But Trey Young's already doing that
and he doesn't have to deal with the fall off
that Tari's Halliburton had the second half of the year.
So if we're going to appreciate Tire's Halliburon
when he was at that peak,
we have to realize that Tray Young's already there
so there's no reason to put him above him.
Absolutely. The hate for Tray Young is that
range. I remember the GMs around the league
or whatever, like listed the most overrated
player in the entire NBA and it's
Trey consistently finds himself up there in that
range. Last year was number one, I believe.
It's so crazy to me. Like it's
it's so... I think players are
these type of narratives, probably
that too, but these type of narratives shift so easily
like one good year.
Let's say Rishi comes in and he looks like a star.
He has like a Jason Tatum where he year
where he's immediately valuable
and provides value
as a role player
and then they're suddenly
like a 46 win team
and they turn it around
without Adjante
the Trey Young conversations
will immediately disappear
where immediately be like
oh yeah he's actually amazing
like the narrative like that
are so lazy
I 110% agree
can't wait to see that happen next year
dude after 2021
when they made the conference finals
he was consistently being ranked
as like a third best point guard
in the league that year
I remember my first time
ever talking to Donovan
I hopped on RIP the two main game and I was like yeah I'd rather that train on my team than
Kevin Durant why because he's a fucking offensive engine it was fresh off of that and Donald was like
bro fuck this guy one of our first shorts is you say Tray Young's a better offensive player than
Kevin Durant that's hilarious yeah legendary I mean let's move on in the top five we're here for the
top this actually might be the fastest one because I don't think we have much disagreement
here's all of them at once
I have Luca Donchich
Shea Gildes Alexander
Steph Curry
Jalen Brunson
Jem's a hater
Smaid's a hater
How do you put Brunson at 5
Oh Moe
Wow
Yeah
Okay
Mo has Luca Curry
Shea Jha and Brunson
And then Donovan has
Luca Shay Curry
Brunson Jha
So a very small differences here
Yeah
So obviously
Actually me in the same
That you realize
Yeah you and Donovan
Yeah, you and Donovan quite literally the same.
Lockstep.
Where we differentiate is me and my beliefs in Curry and not looking at the all-time shitter
that they've put around him and how they fumbled and whittled away his,
the last few years of his prime.
Meanwhile, in OKC, views are, they are up right now.
And it's a completely different story.
And as for, you know, John Morant, it's so easy to go in and put Brunton ahead of him
concerning what Brunson did, having one of the greatest playoff friends of all time at that
size.
Fantastic. Truly remarkable. Donovan, get your hand off of your face, bro. You look weird.
You look weird. I can understand putting much. Get that yam off your face.
I actually think drama ran. I think this time next year, I'll end up
higher again. I just had to give Brunson credit, man. After what he just did, like, Donovan said
the last pod, at least for the summer, Jalen Brunth was the top four point guard in the league.
Coming up what he just did, he's earned it. Will he be able to hold on to that above Jaws?
Who's probably going to come back and be a top two seat next year with the Grizzlies being healthy?
I don't think so. I think John's probably going to prove you better long term, but you got to
give Janlon Brunson credit for the way he's elevated. The way he's gone from, you know, six man
to good starter to high level starter.
with the Knicks to All-Star
to holy fuck this guy's all-NBA level
fit on the MVP ballot the way he just
keeps leveling up and finding ways to improve his game
and also all the
negatives we had once said about him
where we were saying he's too small they can throw
doubles at him in a playoff setting they're going to eliminate
a scoring because he's not a good passer all this
yada yada wrong the way he's proved all of that
wrong they threw all the coverages
in the book at him in the playoffs and that shit
did not matter he found a way
to you know reject the double teams
and get away from it and get to his game regardless
the scoring never once dipped he played 48 minutes a game average 40 points a game it was ridiculous
like it was truly high level stuff that you only see for the best players in the world and i don't
know if you can do that ever again because that was like a generational run maybe he'll never reach
that hide again it's very hard to do that all i can do is fucking clap my hands and say do you get
the credit for this year and hopefully what you're saying i love it hopefully he never has to
do that again like brunson was put in that position because it
everybody was hurt.
Now you're coming back.
OG's going to be healthy.
You have Mikhail Bridges, Julius Randall's going to be back.
Hopefully you are not looking at Jalen Brunton saying, I need you to take 37 shots
tonight to get us to win.
But again, the floor that Jalen Brunson was able to keep the Knicks at, and even
whenever they were playing games with precious Achua and like you had just these terrible,
terrible lineups, even in like February when everybody was hurt, to keep them afloat and to keep
the Knicks fighting towards the second seed in the east is also crazy.
So I think, of course, top four, I want to put Steph at two.
I really, really did.
But for the same reason, like, I dropped Kay Cunningham down to 18 because it's not my fault
that his situation sucks and it's not my fault.
It's not, it's not my fault.
I'm not like, again, I didn't, if it was my choice.
I would give Steph the best team, right?
I would give him a great team.
But I love, I love Steph.
But there's also just a little bit of decline from him.
And Shea is just so consistent.
He's able to score at the rim at will.
He's able to get to his spots in the mid-range at will.
He's legitimately impactful on both ends of the floor.
Like, Shea has risen to a level of two-way dominance.
I don't
that's yeah
that's probably
I don't know
that's a word word
but like
two way right
yeah
just great
just great two way
play
that
the rest of the other
three guys
they're amazing
they're not
two way
the way that
Shay is
and then
Luca's Luca's
so we can put
him out one
She was the best
perimeter
player in the playoffs
last year I think
and I don't
feel that
bad saying it
obviously
brensen did
a volume thing
right
She didn't have
to shoot that
much volume
and shout out
Brunson
being able to
carry that type
of load it's crazy
I'm not
necessarily going to say he's better did better because of that. Shea was incredibly efficient
didn't drop at all. People had some questions because I know everyone was kind of hating on
them last year of like listen we've never seen Shea do this in the playoffs as a star can he do it
is he going to get the free throw calls yada yada he looked exactly the same he's doing the regular
season got his efficient 30 points per game defended well you know Luca wasn't healthy so his
efficiency wasn't there for a lot of the run not his fault she played better than jason
Tatum, I'll tell you that.
Luca was healthy, like I said.
He played better than Brunton, I think.
Like, I don't really,
I'm moving Shea above Curry
rather than I am moving Curry down.
I think Shay has earned it.
Two years of all NBA first team.
Second on the MVP ballot.
Legitimately very good defender.
Playoff proof score that we thought in theory would work.
It showed itself in practice.
Curry, in the end of the last season,
had a very cold stretch, especially from three,
that I think was in large part
that he just had no help around him.
and he really struggled
athletically, I think,
to continue to make something out of nothing
and deal with these really tough on-ball coverages.
I just feel like he lost a slight step
and that showed itself.
I have a feeling that'll look better next year
when the team looks a little bit better, hopefully,
and maybe it's just, you know, small sample size.
He just has a better year.
I just, I don't know how I could put Curry above Shay right now
without it being biased.
Yeah, I know how I can go ahead and do so.
I see Curry and I see his insane.
Superpower, which is obviously him shooting out of the gym every single night.
And now something to revert back to like Shea, I 110% agree with you guys.
I cannot have a case against him whatsoever.
I can just talk up Curry in this instance right here.
When I look at Shay, I think like, yo, is this dude just like the point guard version of Hawaii Leonard?
Because that's what quite literally feels like he's automatic from midrange, strong as hell, super deceiving.
and also you can't stop him when he comes to his finesse and how coordinated he is with his moves.
But for some like Steph Curry, I mean, I think it's easy for him to look like he's lost a step athletically
when you have the John the Comingas of the world playing with you pods, Clay Thompson looking like the way he did last year.
He clearly lost several steps.
And just the offense really just, you have nothing really but just like a bunch of shitters around you, you know?
I agree.
great. Steve Kerr was fighting for
his goddamn life looking
fine, finding, clawing for
some form of identity. Benching
Kavon Lutie, starting Draymond Green,
starting Chris Paul. Like there was
no types of consistency whatsoever.
But for sure over there, life was great.
You didn't know necessarily what you had in Chetting Day
one, but the first five games that he played,
you had everything set in stone
for you and all the players.
Sam Presti, the entire organizations,
the janitors, the towelboys.
Everybody watches your
every single move and they cater to you they know how hot he likes his showers they know how
much gatoray he likes in his cup they know where he likes his socks place bro they know everything
about say but for step bro they can't even wipe him before you know i could definitely see
currie proving this wrong and having one or two more years of like clearly being top two here
it's just tough man like you said the team put him in the worst position to succeed as an aging
point guard like they're making his life hell like brandon pejemsky clay thompson and
and Kaminga is not a complimentary trio
to what he needs to perform well.
Like, it's very tough on him.
But, like, I don't see it getting easier either.
And I think it's going to continue to be hard.
And he might just be past the age
where he can do a 2021, 2021, 22 stuff
where he can just, like, succeed despite that.
Remember that year they were terrible
and he averaged like 31 points per game
because he just got it out of the mud
regardless of how difficult it was.
Yeah.
That might just be past us.
That's tough.
That's tough.
But also, he doesn't take that much step.
back. He's still amazing. So I'm not mad at putting him at two at all. I don't want to make
it sound worse than it is. It's not like, I'm way more concerned about Lillard's age than I am
Curry's. Oh, yeah, for sure, for sure. It's really just about Shay doing that guy.
And I can't, I can't be mad at it because he's truly ascended and he deserves that crown.
He's done absolutely nothing. Okay, she's shortcomings has nothing to do with him. It was more so
about their roster construction in guys like J-dub, second year natural, just not being 100%
there yet and ready to be that good backline defense offensively or whatever and shea is just
like he's certified like you said i said a couple years ago before we knew they were like that and
they won like 40 games of josh giddy on that team you said like this dude might be fucking
bulletproof he quite literally proved that theory he's bulletproof exactly yeah and listen i i think
they're going to be in the finals coming year and might win it barring good health so pretty
soon i think she will have answered every question needed from him first it was can he be in one option
Can he be a star? Then it was can he do win the playoffs the highest level against elite defenses.
Then it's can he win a championship. He's going to one by one. And I think next year is going to be the year that he really solidifies himself as like clearly a top five player, like without a doubt by getting to that finals.
This is Shay's time.
We're here.
Oh my God, bro. That's sick. So you're telling me that Shay has Alice Caruso as a defender, Lou Dort, Jalen Williams, Chet Hungram.
All right, went ahead and drafted Nicola Topich and all that shit.
And how does Mike Dunley v. Jr. respond?
I got one buddy heels for you.
Kyle Anderson.
I got him for you, bro.
Tough scene.
What are we?
How are we doing here?
We got the splash step brother and buddy hill
coming in the door.
We'll see if you can fix him.
Not even step.
That brother was adopted.
He does not look like them.
What are we talking about here?
Yeah, man, that's our rankings.
Pretty good.
I think the point guard rankings are typically the easiest one.
and yeah
I like this
I think the coming weeks
will be a lot more debating
in these
this one was pretty chill
don't explain
that the last
yeah not at all
this is the easiest one
for sure
because it's already set in stone
and the tiers
are more clear
than ever when it comes to this
this is probably also
would you guys say
this is the deepest position
in the league
I actually
when I was looking at this
I kind of feel like
the depth isn't as good
as it once was
like I mentioned
that 11 to 15 range
with James Hardin
Lamello Ball
and a
Who's that the name there I said earlier
Jamal was a Jamal Murray
And Jamal Murray with those guys not really being super
Impressive this year
Kind of feel like this isn't that strong of a year for point guards
I said I still strong it's so strong it's so strong
Because I remember like
Yeah I remember last year
The fact that like Darius Garland could be
The 16th best point guard in the league
Is still like yeah
Now this this position is crazy
You're right you're right it is still should be deep
And compared to other positions, it's still probably the deepest one.
But there was a point a few years ago, like when Chris Paul was elite,
Damien Lurd was unstoppable, James Hardin, unstoppable.
Like we had an era of point guards that was like utterly ridiculous.
Yeah.
Yeah, not going to lie to you, Kyle Lari was over here putting up like 17.
Kyle Lurie, flapping his big ass everywhere.
Mike Coney was really hooping, giving folks like 20, 19, 17 consistently back when he was in our first year, Utah,
but late years in the Memphis Grizzlies.
John Wall was over here throwing gang signs, yelling at.
And now we're going far back.
Listen, take me back.
The thing about the old days, they know old days, you know?
They sure are.
And on that note, it's hilarious, bro.
On to TikTok time.
Crown eaters, let do it.
Welcome to TikTok.
time once again today we are starting with the draft and we're doing a style of draft we haven't
done in quite a while actually i kind of just forgot about it for a while we're gonna do a build
player draft okay okay interesting i like these here we go here we go a month it feels like
and you know what our most viewed draft on ticot is it's the k names draft that shit has like
3.7 million views i don't know why but the k names really popped off for us back in
november 2023 for some reason so we're gonna do k names again but with a build
We're running their back.
Okay.
Let's go ahead and do it.
Okay.
Let's go.
Real simple.
You guys know what works by now.
We got body, shooting, defense, playmaking, and finishing.
Got to draft the best player possible.
The draft order is Moe, Donovan, me.
Ooh, I got the first pick.
You do.
Hmm.
So?
Interesting.
Who are we picking?
Let's start the draft off.
Who are you picking as your first trait?
Okay.
This is so interesting because I can go like so many ways.
Yeah, huh. Okay, so let's say for my, for my body, ah, man, I could go so many ways. I guess there's no real wrong answer here. For my body, giving one of the most unique bodies in the NBA, Kevin Durant. Oh, I'm going to remove Kevin Durant all of his skills right away. Damn. That's very weird, very weird. But that is okay. That's okay.
um let's see let's see let's see
okay i'm putting a premium on shooting
so for my shooting give me clay thompson
okay listen when you can get one of the best shooters of all time you do it
exactly me on other hand i'm not putting a premium on shooting
i'm going to go with christops porzinga's body and kevin garnett defense
ah okay that right there was quite terrifying
What if Kevin what if the best offender you've ever seen was also humongous?
That's what?
That's awesome.
That's tough.
I'm not to shadow your knees.
I only,
that's the only chance that I have.
You're going to have the Nancy Kerrig in me.
Oh, God.
Okay.
Well, in that same light,
what if,
what if you had somebody who could shoot like Clay Thompson,
but was built like,
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
I'll take that.
That's pretty deadly.
That's just Christos Porzingis with a better shooting.
I'll take Kareem body.
Man, talk about the names that we have here.
We mentioned.
You don't get the sky.
No, Kareem Body.
Oh, I was typing the wrong spot.
Oops.
Gotcha.
All these illustrious names you've got Kareem, got KG, KD,
And I'm going to take Kyle Lyre for his playmaking.
There we go.
I was going to do that.
I was going to do that.
I wanted to take that because there's not a lot of passengers here.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I had to go ahead and snipe that off the board real quick.
Okay.
Damn.
And then,
hmm.
I'm not going to touch suit you because I believe there's plenty of fine shooters here
that I can go ahead and scoop up for the low any time.
Okay.
Okay, so what's right under shooting?
I can't see that very well.
Finishing defense.
Oh.
Oh, okay.
So defense of finishing.
Okay, cool.
So for, so for defense, go ahead and give me Kauai Leonard.
Yeah, great pig.
Okay, you're cooking early.
Go ahead and give me Kaui Leonard.
Took me a little bit to go ahead and get my brain churning, but that motherfucker was working.
As long as it is there, I know what I'm doing.
Fuck.
The level of disgust that I have in my heart right now is astronomical, because I was, I was hoping you would sell and I would get Kauai.
Yeah.
Okay.
Let's go here.
Let's go here.
Again, I asked you, what would it look like if somebody who could shoot like Clay was in Kareem's body?
What if you had somebody in Kareem's body that could finish like Karee Irving with the jelly package?
Give me Kyrie finishing.
What a sleeper.
Okay.
I like it.
Man,
if I saw somebody in Kareem's body
doing all these fancy lifts
instead of dunking that bitch,
I'd be pissed.
I'd be annoyed.
He's got to do it just for fun.
What is what I'm going to do?
I'm going to want up you a little bit.
What if somebody in Christops's body
was Dunkin like Prime Kobe?
Give me Kobe finishing.
Okay.
What if I could fly?
Damn.
This messed up.
My plan.
I don't know what to do now.
Not a lot of passing here.
Give me T&T's finest,
Kenny Smith for my passing.
Okay.
All right.
Kenny Smith.
He's a point guard.
He fills that role.
There's not a lot of good point guards here in the K names.
I'll say that.
Yeah, exactly.
That's hilarious, bro.
Okay, that's solid.
Donno, what you go now?
I mean, I do need.
I do need a playmaker.
This guy isn't necessarily thought of as a playmaker,
but he is a point guard.
Give me Kemba Walker for playmaking.
Hmm.
Oh.
So it's not,
it's not the best.
It's not the best out of y'all's two,
but I'm okay.
There's not a lot of great options for,
for playmaking here.
You could have picked Killian Hayes.
Exactly.
He was on the board staring at you.
I didn't think about,
I didn't think about Killian Hayes, man.
Oh, damn.
Yeah, you couldn't pick one of the greatest nicks of all time.
Kevin Knox, tripping, bro.
Dang, man.
I keep...
I have to be better.
I have to be better.
That's on me.
That's funny.
It's on me.
All right.
So, for shooting, go ahead and give me one of the five best shooters of all time, Kyle Corver.
Fawks, you're still in all my picks.
It shot like 49, 50% from three-point line one year.
He is ridiculous.
You're building a demo.
got small forward i'm building a demi god big
this last pick might decide it
yeah okay so
now all i have left
is finishing
y'all took my wing defenders and i'm very upset
because i was gonna have
i was gonna have karee moving out here like hawai
and now i'm just gonna have to treat him like a traditional
big
and i'm upset
okay
so i don't have that many options when it comes to finishing
i'm kind of cooked at this
friend. I only, I, I, I can pick between two bigs. Kevin Knox. And give me, what the hell?
That sounded like a threat. So go ahead and give me, yeah, go ahead and give me Kenyon Martin.
Someone was going to put the ball through the rim every single opportunity that he has. Mo,
Mo, I'm a whoop your ass. I'm a beach ass, Mo. I really, I really am. I really am. When I see him. Sorry.
I'm taking it back
I'm a slap to shout you
I'm so upset
I'm so mad
I'm so mad
you're about the biggest defense
they should have never let me get
Jet GPT thank you Chad GPT
shout out to AI
I did not do this alone
did you ask Chad Zibati for players
I start with K
I'll put it on God I did
you think I'm lying
I'm lying
Bro,
he used to sell every draft
and now he's doing well
because he found chat GPT, that's crazy.
That was a turnaround.
My savior,
I just leaked my game plan
of my strategy for the last 40 weeks,
bro.
I'm back.
See, me,
I don't have any PEDs.
I sit down,
I look at my notes app,
and I just think,
get the shit out of the mode.
I just think of all the players
I can think of.
I don't need any artificial handsments.
You got classic,
American brain you work some you you're working harder not smarter
I'm not optimizing
my whole
my whole plan is thrown out the window
and I have no idea what to do at this point
Kevin Knox Kendrick Perkins is right there
Perk perk
Coastis you suck
you suck so much I've actually never been
more upset at you
than what I am right now.
Killian Hayes.
And I guess
standing six and four
from France.
Killian Hayes.
I don't have any of the
I don't have any of the options.
Okay, let me,
let me take one thing.
Let me take one thing
and I promise you,
I'm going to make this quick
and I'm going to try it.
Kyle closes right there, bro.
Just go ahead and pick him already.
Shut up.
Hey, you missed out on
Mario.
Can you just get Kenyon Martin Jr.
Shut up.
Shut up.
Just get the other one.
Shut up.
I am going to go.
Cats right there.
Yeah, pick cats defense.
What we're going to do is we're going to base this purely off of defensive potential.
And I'm taking defense based off.
somebody's athleticism.
So if I had the defensive potential of Kenneth Farid,
then I think Kareem could do something.
So give me Kenneth Farid defense.
The man,
oh my God.
Wow.
Kenneth Farid based off of the idea.
I'm so nice.
I'm so mad.
You know what?
Give me Carl,
the town's for shooting to complete the demigod
that was such an easy pick
there we go
it was either cat or Kevin Herder
I forgot Kevin Hurter was here
yep
so I have nice Christop's body
cat shooting
Kevin Garnett defense
Kenny Smith playmaking and Kobe
finishing
good grief you're in your bag
I got Kevin Durant body
Kyle Corver shooting
Kauai defense
Kyle Lire playmaking
and Kenyon Martin finishing.
How can you stop me?
Canyon Martin.
Kenyon Martin finishing is so random.
We got Kenyon Martin, Kenneth Fareed,
and Kenny the Jet Smith on this list.
I love it.
I have Kareem's body,
Clay Thompson shooting,
Kenneth Furreed defense,
Kimball Walker playmaking,
Kyrieh finishing.
Kenneth Farid is so misplaced here.
Never in any list's history.
Did Kenneth Freed find himself
along these names ever?
Listen, you got a defender and you got a playmaker
Are they good at those things? I don't know, but you got them
You got me
You got me cooked
You got me cooked
Tough man
Next thing we're gonna do
I'm gonna have a list for you guys
That I want you guys to react to
What I'm gonna do today is
These are my most underrated players in the NBA
Guys who I think for whatever reason don't get
they're just due in discourse that people
sleep on a little bit. I want you guys
react to it. Bet. Okay.
So real simple. You guys know what underrated means. I don't
go to do an explanation. Here are my top
eight most underrated players. First off, at number eight, we got
Jared Allen. All the talk is that him and
inevitably don't fit. The offense is gross. Yuck, yuck, yuck.
He is so good. If we free him
from the shackles of another non-shooting big,
people are going to appreciate this guy is legitimately an all-star
talent. Your people are always... He's quite a little.
literally was an alter tan already. You're right. That's true. That's true. People always think
about Jared Allen as like this amazing defender, which he is, but they don't understand
that he has upgraded his scoring bag. He's a solid, you know, passive for a big man. Like he
he has stuff in his bag that he can do. Definitely underrated. And his Lego collection is
outrageous. The Lego collection is crazy, bro. And also he has one of the greatest means of all
time. He contributed to NBA history. Not many players can say that. Yeah, listen, man, I
I need to see him on a team that makes more sense for him so bad.
He's so good.
Next name.
We got Desmond Bain.
I don't think people realize that he averaged an efficient
24.5 points and like five and a half assists this year.
The playmaking took a huge step of John Morant out
and he wasn't in all-star convos
because the team was horrendous and all their players died
so they couldn't win games.
But he played an all-star level this year, like quite easily.
Geo-Doo.
Desmond Bain, wow.
The holy.
Yeah, I agree.
He doesn't band is he he is well for some reason I feel like he'll forever remain underrated for the rest of his career.
He was underrated coming into the NBA draft.
He was underrated now and with all these new guards popping up Anthony Edwards ascending and stuff like that doesn't mean is just an afterthought just a guy.
If he had if he had six more inches of arms, they'd be talking about him like Jalen Brown.
Oh, 100%.
Listen, he's they're in Memphis.
So, like, they're never going to be the nation's, like, favorite team.
The Grizzlies are going to have to win a championship for people to understand how good
Desmond Bain is.
He's low-key, like, he's in the conversations with Jamal Murray and them as the best, one of the
best players to not make an all-star team yet.
That's all-fax.
That's 100% true.
All right.
Next name.
I got Scotty Barnes.
I think that people, listen, the Raptors are not good.
Washington play is not fun.
And Scotty Barnes made an all-star.
But I think people kind of treated it like a here fucking take it type of all star
But Scotty Barnes has a legit incredibly high ceiling a lot of people if you say that like he's in the same tier as a prospect of like a palo ban caro
They're going to look at you like you're crazy
He's going to be great he's so versatile a great defender can pass the ball can score
He has like top 15 player in the league ceiling I think
Yeah a lot of the times whenever we talk about Scotty Barnes is because we're you know we're making jokes about scotty barnes
people rarely
talk about him
as the great basketball
player that he is
he can do it all
and not that the raptors
are like rebuilding
they should be happy
that they have
that they have an actual
like good good
young piece to build around
yeah and I think
everybody knows he's good
but I don't think
everybody like talks about him
as like having legit
like really high level
all-star ceiling
because Scottie Barnes
the player
I don't really watch that
Scottie Barnes
the streamer
I watch that
as a content genius
definitely underrated in the content game
next up
lamello ball
we talked about him on the rankings earlier
listen he became overrated
because he was so popular and then now he's always
injured everyone's like ah he'll never be healthy all this stuff
that we don't appreciate him for being actually amazing
because people just assume it's the hype because people like him because he's cool
he's legit incredible when he's on the basketball court
it makes me so mad that we're not able to see him play for healthy for a full season
because he would be like clearly all-star level by now for consistent years if you can say healthy
man pain pain pain when i think a little mellow ball i just think of pure sadness bro he should
have been an all he would have been an all-star last year if he was just continuing this trajectory
bro that he started we could give him bionic ankles the league would be so different
Oh my God
I agree
Byionic ankles
It's great
Imagine how many careers
Would be different
If we just have bionic
Insert body part here
You gave Derek Rose
Bionic knees
Oh my goodness
That's top 10 all time
Lamello ball
Is in Zion territory
Of the most frustrating
Injuries ever
That are robbing us
Of like a really high level player
All he needs to do
Is learn how to stay healthy
And learn how to drive safely
and he would be skyrocketing up.
That's all he needs to focus on.
Next to you.
I think I got some role players up next.
I got Aaron Wiggins at four
and Dennyav Dihah at three.
They don't know about Air Wiggins.
They don't.
He's so good.
He needs to get more minutes.
He's everything you want from a complimentary wing.
And so is Deni of Diyah.
As soon as Deni of Deha gets put on a high-level contender,
people are going to realize like,
oh, is this Aaron Gordon?
Is this Eric White?
Like, he's one of those high-level role players
that can really help a championship team.
I know, I do feel bad for him because he just went from trash team on the East Coast to
trash team on the West Coast and nobody is going to understand how good he is and how much
of a leap he's taken since he's been in the league.
But listen, if you're ever up late, you can't sleep.
Turn on a Blazers game, right?
Watch, watch Denny.
He'll be hooping.
Yeah.
I agree.
This dude is the ultimate Swiss Army knife or at least one of the most ultimate up-and-coming
Swiss Army Knives can pass, cut, jump shot is.
gotten better, bro. I ain't going to lie. A couple years
ago when I was evaluating his tape,
I called him Ben Simmons with a jump shot.
So much cap, but that goes to his
versatility. That's why I don't
make videos more. He's not that.
He's real good.
I mean, Ben Simmons is now with a jump shot.
You're not wrong.
Oh, tough. If he could finish
with a rim like Prime, Ben Simmons,
this would be an insane player.
Different player, bro.
All-Star.
And number two, we have Colin Sexton.
People forgot about him because he missed a year with an ACL injury, I think.
And he was just quietly last year was like 18, 5, and 5 on great efficiency, just a really high level offensive player.
He needs to be traded so he can flourish.
He's hidden in the mountains with the Mormons.
They don't, people don't know, right?
Exactly.
You're out there secluded.
It's a weird time zone too.
Listen, I think that Colin Sexton is one tradeaway.
And I'm with you.
one tradeaway get you to a big market get you a really good contract you sir you can have a
footlock a commercial really soon if you put him on the lakers you put him on the lakers he's
gonna be on some on some billboards oh my god bro they're gonna talk about this man like he's
i don't know god damn burning davis or something like that i don't know if that's a good name burning
yeah that's so random who's that he's burning davis i i just butcher that like he's
a motherfucker
I said
Vernon Davis
Who's the dude
Baron Davis
There we go
That's hilarious
Bring sex into the Lakers man
We can make something happen
He's gonna be so good
I agree
And last but not least
The number one current
Most underrated player
In the entire NBA
Trey Young
I have never seen
The Office of Player
This taking for granted
This man has talked about
Like he's Smush Parker
Like he's Jordan Clarkson
Like he's just a role player
No defense
empty stats, offense.
It's so hard to average 28 and 10
for like a four-year period.
Keep going, keep going, keep going.
And we just fucking laughing at it going.
Keep going, keep going.
You need to stop before I decided
take him off this fucking list.
That's crazy.
That's crazy.
Don't start the double hand.
No, don't do that.
I don't want to hear that.
Oh, whoa, double hands is crazy.
All right.
If I had three, I wouldn't use them.
I'm just kidding.
Do you need to control
Your Trey Young Munch aside
He is so taking for granted
The narratives around him are so lazy
But I'm with a collar on you
Relax
He has a beard now too bro
He's coming into a year what
Six or whatever with a beard
It's coming in different bro
You're in love
Or is outrageous
He's a he can hoop and he's sexy
Oh my God
Like bro relax relax
Relax
He's coming next year
You'll see
Oh my God
But, Mo,
answer this question.
Do you think that
Tray Young is playing fair this year?
He was never playing fair.
Yeah, man, that's the end of my list.
That was the next thing we're going to do.
Love that.
At first I had more role players on there,
but I decided to put a little bit better players
because it was really easy for me to just fill it
with 10 guys nobody talks about
because they're role players.
Yeah.
I had him switch up a little bit,
put some high level guys on there.
Nice. I like it.
So, ooh, I think it's my time to shine, y'all.
So next we're going to do, we're going to go ahead and sit down and rate NBA statues on a scale of 1 to 10.
Statues have been around the game for a minute to go ahead and give your salute to all the great NBA players from the past.
Now, not all statues are the same.
Some of them are ass and some of them are actually pretty good, pretty fun.
All right, so rate the NBA statue on a scale of one.
1 to 10. First up, we got John Stockton doing his classic signature pose.
Fitting a pass on his body, I'm John Stockton. It's not bad. It's not bad. This is just a very
regular statue. This is like quintessential NBA statute. It's a solid six. It's just normal.
Exactly. And they got him in like the John Stockton pose where he's just like entry pass and just
throws it. So it's like I'll say like a seven. It's not bad. Yeah, this is how he got like 19
thousand. It was 23,000 assists.
This is the most damning
statue pose I've ever seen, but this
is also like the most damning player
to receive a statue, so I understand.
He does look, I will say
he does look mad brolic in this.
He looks a lot stronger
than what he actually looks like.
They gave him some HGH in the statue.
This is ridiculous.
You're not right. He was not this
strong. He was like Donald Mitchell.
That's hilarious, bro.
I'll say something cool.
You got muscles for no reason.
Eric Bledso.
Yeah, that's so it's hilarious.
All right.
Next up, we got
Shaquille O'Neal.
This is ferocious.
Not going to lie to you.
It's color.
This is elite.
It's elite.
This is a great statue.
Just, listen, sometimes a statue can be real average.
The pose can be whatever.
It's just okay.
Kobe Bryant.
This one nails the essence of Shaq so well,
getting him in the perfect position.
10 out of 10.
I mean, this is what he did.
Most of his career, bro,
put a lot of his nuts
and a lot of different players' faces.
He went ahead and disrespected so many people, bro.
This embodies Shaq in his career
and just how dominant he was.
What do you do with that?
10 to me.
This pose is also kind of crazy, though.
It's 10.
Listen, to have your gooch up in the air like this
for eternity is wild.
But, I mean, shout out to you, though.
Shout to check
Let it be known
This is the second time
In TD3 history
That's the word Gooch
That's what it's called
That's what it is
That's the term
He's just spread out
Multi-time Goochieffender
That now we're discussing
For sure
You're on Gucci watch
Is that
That not the topic of conversation
Goocher
Goocher
It's just all out
He's at 10 to 2
It's wild
10 to 2
He said
Ah
I'm here
Ha
All right, next up we got, we got,
Ew.
Witsky.
This was the prototype.
This is nasty timing right here.
Ew.
This is not the official statue.
This was an idea.
Ew, ew, ew.
Ew.
Ew.
Ew.
Ew, ew, ew.
This is disgusting.
This is so nasty
It's disgusting
Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, yuck
Gross
You know, it's killing me
This is so nasty
I'm crying so much
This is a freaky statue, bro
Bro, there's so many tears
On my eyes right now
Bro, they're thinking about all the
freaky nasty people in Dallas
Good God, this statue got versatility.
Oh, my goodness.
Donovan saw this, and he was in a Victorian child, drinking Mountain Dew, can handle it.
He was, oh, my God.
So it's freak of towards, man.
This is crazy.
This is so bad.
I like the idea of him.
The fade away, obviously classic, historic move in the NBA, but damn, bro.
I'm so happy this to come out of the real thing.
Who greenlighted this?
Did Mark Cuban do this himself?
Like, this is.
This is a bad idea.
He definitely gave it the green light.
Good God.
This is a bad idea.
It's the daylight.
Thank God they fix it, man.
Thank God this didn't get put into the world.
Yeah, exactly.
There have been some horrendous crimes done in this thing.
I feel like a lot of our audience are going to see this and not know why it's so gross.
And I'm happy for them.
Keep your youth.
Keep your unpoisoned eyes.
Exactly.
Don't do no research.
What's next?
Oh, man.
Next up, we got Magic Johnson.
This is good.
Again, they made him brolic as hell.
He looks muscular or shit.
Is this LeBron?
That don't even look like magic in the face to be honest.
I'm gonna stay, I'm gonna stay quiet.
I know what you're thinking, and I was gonna say to say me.
I'm gonna say quiet.
What are you to say?
I can't say it, but I can text it.
No, no, no.
I refuse to say this out loud.
Yes
I'm not going to say it.
I was like, oh my God.
Maybe they were right.
Maybe they were subject right.
Are you saying maybe you're going to give it
They were on to shut them, bro.
It's just like this.
Oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Just, okay, so, I don't, people talk about it.
Do people know what you're talking about right now?
I don't think they won't know.
They won't know.
Maybe they will because you say racist, but.
Let's just say, Donovan's talking about the way they made his face look.
they made him look crazy
oh man his instincts
look crazy in this photo bro
that's what we'll say
yeah
that's crazy
bro
oh my god
this is a zero for sure
I like the idea
the pose is cool
directing the offense
but
come on
man man man let's just
keep it moving
next up we got
Jammarant
we need to stop making
this tattoos
we got to stop making it
what happened
to the rest of his arms
did they put
death McBain's arm
on him
what the fuck
this big dubby
standing in the middle
of the court
man
oh my god
this is zero
why is his chest
he has a little
chef
I think he has
you know what this looks like
chest, he is the bronze chest and like
Zuri's arms. The arms are so tiny.
You know what this looks like, you know,
you know the memes when they're like
what the worst play would look like
and it's like somebody's body in
like, you know, just like the worst attributes
it looks like they did that for Jock.
It's like Big Baby Davis's
body and Matt McCloy's swing fan.
Oh my God, bro.
This is legit horrendous.
What is this from?
What the fuck is this?
Bro, this is homage to one of the parks in South Carolina.
This is homage to one of the parks of South Carolina for Jah.
Oh, bro.
Oh, yeah, they'd be hitting down there.
But they need to take this shit down.
This is even worse for them, brand.
Get his lawyers on the phone again.
Who does this look like?
It doesn't look like Jop at all.
It's like some rapper, to be honest with you.
Don't look like Jah.
Some drummer.
Some rapper?
Some rapper.
Some rapper?
Why a rapper?
You know why?
you know
exactly why
nothing about this face
says rapper
there's something very distinct that says rapper
and you know what it is
except for
how did this time
I get so it hinged
Oh my God
Zero at 10
This statue is
Beyond comprehension
Oh man
This statue is
sick work. Next up we got Kobe Bryant. Apparently this is what Kobe wanted. Listen, I wouldn't
have picked this for Kobe, but if it's what he wanted, then shout out to Kobe.
There you go. This is so anticlimatic. Seven out of ten. It's all right. I, you want something a little bit
cooler, a little more Kobe. Not the coolest stance in the world. They fucking out like four times.
You could have got the fist pump, right? That would, that would have been cool. Yeah, they had to hit some
revisions to the statue because they fucked up a few
important details but that's so embarrassing
eventually we got to a decent
statue
yeah
this is solid six I guess
they could have chose so many more poses though for sure
I agree
this is a L
major L
what does this even mean bro
I mean I get it I know what it means
she's very beautiful to me
that's what I immediately think of not
Kobe Ryan bro
mean culture just ruin my mind
She's very gorgeous to me.
What's next?
Oh,
next up we got Alan Iverson.
They just unveiled this a couple months ago, actually.
I don't know if it's the angle,
but he looks like an eight-year-old in this.
Why does he look so small?
This is like Mike.
This is Calvin Cambridge.
Like,
that's exactly what this is.
And it doesn't help that the statue is like two feet tall.
I know that they do it for everybody,
but like maybe we should just start making bigger statues right let's stop being cheap when it comes
to statue making yeah the pose is cool island iverson costume for halloween quite literally this is what
it looks like bro looks like some he looks like something that snuck on the earth to be honest with
you it doesn't look really natural at all what yeah it doesn't look natural at all the people
The pose is a little bit off.
But the pose is cool.
I mean,
it's Alan Ivers him doing its crossover.
I don't hate that part.
For how they made other people's,
like,
faces look on some of the other statues
that we've seen and just like in general,
this could have been much worse.
And if the,
if the worst thing about it is that it's too small,
you did okay.
You did fine.
Yeah.
True.
True.
I was a solid seven.
Okay.
Yeah.
Seven is good.
I'll go eight because everything about it is actually good.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's cool.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean
What is this?
Next up, I believe this is Wilk Chamberlain.
Yep.
There's a lot going on here.
There is a lot going on.
Are they trying to make them like a Greek god or like
What is this?
This is what will look like back in the day.
They never seen no man hoop like this before back in the 1950s, bro.
Yes, he was that.
That's true.
This looks like the Game of Thrones throne.
Like there's so much.
going on it looks so uh are both are both of these things like supposed to be
wheel chamberlain they try to have like two like wilt moments in the statue yeah i believe so
and it just didn't work also so much going on also this is also from the sixers so is this also
a tiny statue because if so this is too much going on for a little statue that big this looks
to be huge i think it is huge it's big as hell it's big a cell there's so much
You picked out like a, you picked out like a 480P picture, so it's hard for me to tell what's going on.
Like I can't even like really visually identify with what all this is.
Yeah, I'm very, very unsure.
Looks like condors are carrying him.
I can't tell what's going on.
Yeah.
Next up, of course, we got Michael Jordan.
I've actually never seen what MJ's face looks like on the statue.
I've just seen the side view.
And that's all I need.
This is hard.
This is one of the best statues ever.
This is the Michael Jordan logo.
this is Jordan 10 out of 10 it's 10 yeah they nailed it it's you it's a one job as a
statue creator one main job and let's get the pose right and make it clearly
identifiable a dead and make it clearly identifiable as one player this is that okay
if lebron had a statue what would it be probably the the the chalk toss chalk
oh that'd be dope yeah i would i would either like
like one of his celebrations like the size that like in the chest yeah maybe maybe uh like
a tomahawk don't like a breakaway jump don't yeah honestly probably that i think it also
be cool if it's him like holding the trophy just that one picture of him after win 2016 where he's
that crying holding the trophy all tight yeah that could be cool i can't wait till i see lebron's any
statues real it's it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna be the the chalk toss it's gonna be he's gonna
have like his arms like stretched out yeah that
I can see him in that Tomahawk Dunk.
He has two many moments in his career
that are like so stacked you were there.
All right, all right, save the glaze.
Save the glaze, it's fine.
All right, right, right, right.
Next up, we got Larry Bird.
Larry is that also college one?
Yeah.
He has his college in the state.
That's good.
I like, I like this jersey.
This is not bad.
I'm going like a nine out of ten.
I think you probably, and it probably happens
because of like it's old.
The writing on the jersey could look a little bit clear,
But as for, like, Larry Bird, his shot for him, everything.
This is, this is a good statue.
They nailed a hair and face.
Like, that's crazy.
This is generally one of the best statues I've seen.
I think it might be a 10.
And it's so basic, too.
But they hit all the nice, simple things.
I like it.
There we go.
Good for Indian State.
Exactly.
And that's the last one.
Perfect.
What a segment.
What a clip, man.
Next thing we're going to do.
We're going to do a game
where I'm going to name two NBA players
and I want to know
which one of these players
you would want to take the last shot
who was taking your game winning shot
they're both in the court.
Ooh, who's more clutch?
Who has a clutch, I like it.
Now we're in summer for real.
Let's do it.
It's time to enter Skip Bayless mode.
Who has the clutch factor?
The clutch gene.
First off,
Anthony Edwards or Jason Tatum.
I don't trust Jason Tatum at all
with the ball in his hands for five minutes left.
I'll take Anthony Edwards and it's not a question.
I want to trust Jason to him to do nothing
but teach me how to tie my tie.
I'm taking Anthony Edwards for sure.
Oh my God.
You're talking about Jason Day and I'm like he's fucking Al-Faruka Minu.
Come on.
No, no.
I mean, listen, he's better than some players.
He's not better than Anthony Edwards with the game on the line.
Clutch, you have to understand.
Clutch, I don't care what the numbers say.
Clutch is a feeling, right?
I have to feel like the ball's going in.
it's an idea exactly and Anthony Edwards I trust him you don't respect that one game
winning spinning lap that Jason Tatum had that's such a fake game winner bro what no one
when Kevin Durant messed up like crazy no I'm okay oh y'all hate Jason Taylor so much now I do
respect the he was just running winners that he had found the ball oh here it is here
it is like that's hilarious that is that's hilarious that's hilarious
When he tries to a game winners, they don't really go in like that.
Joel Embed or Janus?
I trust Yonis getting to the rim way more for sure.
I don't care if it was a three, a free throw, anything.
If the game is on the line, I will never put the ball in Joelle and B.'s hands.
I'm taking Yonis.
Even though Yonis can't shoot.
I've seen Janus take
three.
I saw a clip today
about Janus taking
a step back three
to tie the game.
Yeah,
and for that step back three,
that was for him
to become the franchise
leader in points.
So I'm taking Janus.
Hmm.
Damn.
I'm taking on.
It's a clutch of you just...
Sorry, Joelle.
Intangible.
I'm not sorry,
Joelle.
You brought this on yourself.
Okay.
Fourth quarter,
Joelle and Bid is quite the presence.
Yeah.
Who was first quarter, second quarter, maybe third quarter?
I'm taking Duel for sure because he's different.
Well, listen, not even second quarter.
Towards the end of half, mm-mm.
If the clock is running down, I'm not giving it to Joel.
Next up, Ben Simmons or Andre Drummond.
Oh, shit.
How do you want to lose?
You're both, they're both getting viral as hell
because Andrew German has some hilarious low lights
and Ben Simmons low lights
are just depressing.
I think I might go with Andre German
because I want to laugh.
I think I might...
Listen, if I'm going to go out,
I want to go out fighting.
At least I know that Andre German
will put up a shot.
Ben Simmons won't,
he won't even look at the basket.
So I'll have to take Andre Drummond.
He'll throw a grenade to the shooter
right next to him with half a second left.
Exactly.
If you don't dunk on trade,
young you are 610 please that picture's hilarious every time i see it it looks like tri young just
like shrinks somehow more and more and more it doesn't look real it's so crazy because he really
could have had like the iconic picture of his career he could have put his nuts in tray young's face
and the series would have been over and he was like no i don't want it it's insane
sliding glass doors moment what the butterfly effect that would have happened if he would
have yammed on trey young the whole league would be different right now that's crazy and that's not
an exaggeration either yeah no i agree it would have been them bro it would have been them versus
the bucks in the conference finals oh wow that would have been that i've been a series wow but i said
you had trey young given drew hall at a 48 points in game one tough scene and then losing
He got hurt.
Next one.
He stepped on a roof.
Jordan pool.
Jordan pool or Cam Thomas.
Ooh.
Ooh.
This is interesting.
We got some irrational confidence in the building.
Listen.
No matter, all you can't, you can say a lot about these guys.
I can promise you, they will take that shot.
They will not be scared.
They will hoist that shit.
They will.
I like Cam Thomas, me personally.
Every time he shoots it, he can manipulate me into thinking that.
it's going to go in for jordan pool he's a little bit indecisive does way too much and he also might
take a game winning shot from too far back i'm thinking i think jordan pool's going to be too
jordan pool's going to be trying to look sexy while he does it it's going to be doing a little too
much and i make it have a little pizzazz can't thomas is straight to contest the jumper
we know what he's getting he's getting right to a spot that's that's true i want to empower
jordan pool because i think that obviously he's better than what he showed in washington
I think if you give us some confidence he'll be okay
But like you guys said
It just does too much
I just need one crossover get to the shot
And Cam Thomas would do that
So I'm going to Ken Thomas
Might be
Can't have a really long career
As like a special teams player
If he was just putting the game for gaming shots
To go get the tough bucket
The same way you have like a speed wide receiver
That has one run role with the team
I think Loki can Thomas can do that
If Cam Thomas
Player is so damny
Special team
If Cam Thomas had played in a different era
He would have been like
The professional scorer guy
Like he really could have been
Lou Will Jamal Crawford like eight years ago
But now it's like
I don't know
I don't know if people
Look at him like that
We'll see you man
Next up
Luca Donchich or Steph Curry
Interesting
I don't want to turn my back on Steph
But man, this guy, Luca, is dangerous.
This white man is dangerous.
If there's five seconds left and he puts the shot up,
I'm shocked if he misses it.
I think that every shot in the clutch from Luca is going in,
I think I might have to take Luca.
With how easy it is for Luca to get to the rim,
I can understand why you'd want to take Luca.
But me personally, I'm just going by the percentages.
Just give me stuff.
More efficient.
Just give me stuff.
I'm a math guy.
I don't think Steph's last five minutes is more efficient than Lucas.
You're right.
It's not.
I'm looking at the entire game, though.
Well, the point is who's taking the last time.
Steph will have us in those positions.
You give a good team around Steph.
He wouldn't have us in a clutch position.
It's okay.
Steph, exactly.
That's the game.
We'll just win the game.
I see you.
Okay, next one.
Jimmy Butler or Paul George.
Oh, this is pretty easy, right?
Very easy.
Paul George is going to hit the side of the backboard sometimes.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Great player.
He can get you through the, he can go ahead and get you to one in the first, second, and third.
With them fourth quarters, yikes.
I'm leaning Paul, Jimmy Buller.
Listen, when Paul George decides that it's time to bully, listen, there's not a lot of people.
There's not a lot of people.
who can mislike him.
So I'm going to go with Jimmy Butler here.
No respect for the 35-year-old bully.
Unbelievable.
Ball game.
That's hilarious.
Zion Williamson or James Hardin?
This is hilarious to imagine.
It is.
Sometimes you just need a jumper and I still believe that James Hardin can get a jumper off.
um so i think i'm gonna go with james hardin i agree james harten for sure we've seen what
what do i need what kind of how much time is left what do i need you got 10 seconds left
you're down by one hmm 10 seconds left is down by one james harten's gonna go ahead and try to
dance he might overthink things zahn wills is gonna go through people i'll take i'll take
Zion in that situation.
He can run half-back dive.
He doesn't get to that free throw line.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But at the worst,
we're going to get two free throws
to get a shot up.
Or even if he misses, Zion
can get his own rebound and
make it there. You're going to, you're going to get
multiple opportunities if you get Zion going
downhill, where James Hardin's at
that point in his career, where if he's going downhill,
it's not a guarantee that he's going to
blow by somebody. So
I think it's a guarantee he won't
Yeah
10 seconds left
I think I might go Zia
Wow
James Tarn they're disrespecting you over here
Draymond Green or Tobias Harris
Oh my God
Tobias no
I'm taking
Who the hell are you taking at this point?
I don't know
You tell me
Dramon did shoot really well from three
from three point line this year
I don't know what the situation is
but I might be taking Dremont Green.
Because when we put Dremont in the high post, let me hit some jab steps.
You might have some shit.
I think I might take Dremont because I think that he has,
I think he has more confidence in himself than Tobias Harris does.
I don't know because he said in podcasts before that he really don't like,
like to shoot it at all because he feels like he has better options than him putting it up.
I don't know.
But if,
but if he was on the same court as Tobias Harris,
he would look over and be like,
No, I got to take the shot.
Like, it's not really a, it's not really a big decision like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.
Okay.
That's true.
That's true.
That's true.
That's true.
That's true.
Last thing we're going to do.
So, are you guys familiar with the site, Ranker?
Yes.
I actually know I've never been on it before.
Ranker has a lot of, like, lists that are voted on by everybody that goes in the site, and they rank things.
And there's an NBA category.
So you can go on there and see, like, the top 10 players from the 2003 drafts.
the top 10 shooters of all time.
So and so, they're voted on by the public.
So it's like a conglomerate list
that everybody votes on.
I pulled up the Ranker list
for the top 10 white players of all time.
And I want you guys to guess
who is on this list.
We love racial content on this channel.
And I love this list.
All right, let's get into it.
So real simple.
I want you guys to guess
the top 10 white NBA players of all time
according to Ranker.
Larry Bird.
Larry Bird's number one
Kevin McHale
Kevin McHale is number nine
Wow
What's your man
Oh Bob Coosie
Bob Coosie did not make the list
John Havleteck
He got John Havichick at 10
John Stocksie
This man is eating
John Stockton said at three
Man Donovan knows his white boys
He's eating
George Miking
There's people
George Miking did not make the list
Wow
Luca
They put Luca at number six already
Nice is Yokish there
Yokic
Jokic
Jokic is number four already
Dirk
Wow
Dirk is number two already
Does J.J. Reddy get the
ORA pass
No J.J. Rade does not get the
aura pass
DJ Reddy does not touch in this fucking list
Damn I would have put them on the list
They don't know shit
Is Steve Nash there
Steve Nash is number seven
So what do we need
eight and five eight and five all right let's think let's think about the
about the white boys too long and hard pull your roll a decks of NBA pasty
princes um damn Marley okay damn Marley what a deep cut no it's not Dan Marley
does Jason Kidd pass in this scenario no that is a black man this
actually you never know people are confused no just didn't get is not on this list
okay
let's think
let's think about like the all time
does uh
is pal gasol or more casol
on this list
power is actually like number 13 or something
but no he's not not 10
okay
8 and 5
what what errors are
are we missing
is Bill Walton there
oh true
was number 12
Bill Wilson's not top 10
oh really
these guys are old old players
they're not modern
they're like yeah
from a while ago
is Arvita's a bonus
there
Of course he's not here
Are he's a bonus?
Yeah
He was Yokes before Yokens
These boys who are Reagan
Don't know anything about some of the best white
Bigs, damn
Okay
Oh is
Go ahead
One of these is incredibly obvious
I don't know how he wasn't the first name
You thought about when you think of NBA white boy
Oh Jerry West
Jerry West is number five
And then is Bob
Pitted on the Yokens
bitch that's crazy all you have now is number eight is Bob pettit on here
Bob pettit is not on here but that'd be a good pick Bob pettit with a bag on
okay that there's a number eight is like number eight is like the
swaggy white boy of his time white chocolate just bleeds he just bleeds
aura did you just say white chocolate yeah I mean you're right he just bleed or he
bleeds aura the swaggy white boy of the time
Swaggy white boy
This is the most swag you can imagine
I'm gonna hate myself for this
I'm gonna I'm gonna be very upset
I can't exaggerate
Pissop Pete! Pissopin there
there we go there we go
I knew it I knew it I knew it
and there we go that's the full list
and that's the full episode
we're done y'all the first episode of ranking season
is done is behind
us stay tuned over the next five weeks we're gonna keep it going all all summer long
it's ranking season so what should they comment tell me you're laughing something you're
thinking what are you gooch watcher we'll see y'all next week