The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked The Greatest Guards In NBA History | Ep. 104

Episode Date: August 30, 2024

Ranking the top 30 NBA guards of all time! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Join the TD3 discord!: https://discord.gg/RUkjpMPp7E Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Muhamed's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 1:47- 26-30 26:38- 21-25 46:40- 16-20 1:11:27- 11-15 1:29:55- 6-10 1:35:40- top 5 1:45:40- producer corner 1:54:45- tiktok time (crayon eater corner?) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I know we started last week by saying, you know, this is the end of ranking season. We're ranking the most valuable players in the NBA. You can't get any bigger than this. This is the end of this chapter of our NBA off season. I thought that was true. Went a few more days. I thought about it some more. And I was like, here go one more for you.

We got to do an all-time ranking. We're going to rank the all-time guards. You see it by the title. Last year we did the top 30 NBA players of all time. Now we're doing the top 30 guards in NBA history. It's an elite meme. I've told him to my favorite LeBron moments I know it's so good

Yeah man Again I thought that was in a cap off ranking season I thought that was the best way But we can't do a T3 ranking season Without an all-time ranking It's just it's got to be a yearly tradition Yeah We are liars at heart

We've told you this Exactly We told you this so many times We're good liars though We don't disappoint will we lie It's a place of surprise We actually enhance everyone's experience Or experience

There we go man So like we said Top 30 guards of all time So point guard plus shooting guard Whoever you consider to be a guard If it's somebody like big Like a Paul George who plays it to He's a wing, he's not a guard

We're not going to count him You know, it's like There's some big guards on here But you have to be listed At shooting guard More years need to small forward So there's some guys in middle Like George Gervin or TMAC

Who I let them be on this list But they're kind of pushing it Damnation of who's the best player Who's the most accomplished Who had longevity all that Everything you come to expect From all the time ranking We're doing it today

Okay Let's roll in, man. Let's get to this right. So I'm sure you can do it. The cranium is crazy. Oh my God. I mean, I don't know what to see. Pray on eaters rejoice.

So again, like always, we're going to start with 30 through 26, the bottom half, and go up by blocks of five every time until we see all of our top 30 lists. You guys know how it goes. we're starting off of 26 through 30 Mo who is your first five names Here we fucking go dog All right so 26 Clay Thompson

27 Sidney Moncrief 28 David Thompson There's gonna be a whole lot of those this episode 29 For the audio listeners When I say a whole lot of those

You hear it's like quick silence It's a salute I won't say too much To salute respect your others Salute to something from back in the day We got a respect but Back in the day Honestly, you're saying that to those guys

Played in the 80s and 90s I'm not saluting them We're saluting the guys in the 60s and 70s That's the saluting They deserve salutes You don't have You don't create the definition of salutes It depends on the person

So for me it's a salute bro 29 Tony Parker I'm not saluting in 1995 No Anything pre-2009 gets a salute for Mo That's crazy If it happened beforehand Montana aired for the first time

It gets a salute from Moe Pre-Fidious and ferv Salute Pre-Fidious and ferv is nuts, bro. I will never ever just like my goat jaw-smooth, bro. Are you kidding me?

Say your last two picks again, I cut you off. Say it again? Say your last two picks again? I think we cut you off laughing at your salute. Oh, yeah, 29, Tony Parker, and 30, Tracy McGrady.

Okay. Interesting. So obviously the thing that jumps off the page first is Tracy McGrady barely made your list. Yeah. Interesting.

Oh, before we go, I forgot. We have honorable mentions. Do you have honorable mentions for us? Not really. I mean, I had, yeah, I'm not really. I'll get into my honorable mentions later on as we go on through this list. Okay, but explain McGready. We can go ahead and skip that part. But yeah, McGrady, tremendous player, one of the most influential players. But when you sit down and just look at what he really did throughout his career, of course, like, some of it has to do with his, like, with injuries, which generally cut off some of his a lot of his prime other other other other parts of it have to do with like the circumstances team was asked and stuff like that but having piece really like how we look at joll and beat today when it comes to not being able to uh succeed in the playoffs that's Tracy McGrady except it's way worse yeah he's one of the again never made it out of the first round an entire career which is unbelievable listen I have him a lot higher than you do I'll say

that I respect the skill more than you do but I fully understand putting him lower like I guess I'll say how I graded this and I'll let you tell me how you view that compared to how you're viewing things I kind of wait everybody on three scales you have peak which is three to five years accolades and longevity and when I'm comparing them I kind of ended up going like if I'm debating two players is who has two at a three of those so team mac is still pretty high for me because his three to five year peak is are is great he had three straight years being top six in MVP voting two of those years he was first team all NBA one year second team all NBA, very pretty, pretty efficient for his time. And I know the playoff success

wasn't there, but he's decorated enough and has enough of a really high peak that I put him above a guy like Clay, Sidney Moncrief, these guys. So I understand it, but I respect the town a little bit more. I can agree with it. I'm not too mad. I'm kind of shocked though because for a guy who, whose life is really based off of aura in Moe, I'm surprised McGregie is not higher right for a guy who loves paul george i'm surprised mcgrady's not higher because because tracy is like the paul george of kind of that era well obviously b1 yeah you know like Kobe is the guard out of out of that era he is the best one but you ask a lot of people and go back to that time there's like that very short short span where people are like hey it's really between Kobe and timac right like the

scoring and the way that Timak was able to get his buckets was really, really entertaining for a lot of people. Like if, if Timak was coming up, you know, if he was playing right now, you would see all types of, you know, edits on TikTok. You would see like the theme songs that he had. Like, he would have been like the Paul George. So it is kind of interesting that you don't have him a little higher. But for everything that like, Isaac was saying in terms of criteria, I get it. You can look at his, you can look at like his basketball reference page. I think that this lines up, but I think if you start looking at like the influence and the way that, and like the way that people view TMAC, he really is like a, oh, you just had to be there to fully understand where like how good he was. He's one of those guys who cemented in NBA history for all reasons that has nothing to do with like what he actually did and how he, you know, broke the game or like help influence the game or had like dominant runs in the playoffs.

specifically, you know? He has the shoes, the aura, you know, the bag, the wiggle, the influence on the game and shit like that. He has all that. But I'm thinking, when I think about like top 30, like you got to get it done it at the end of day. I don't know. I mean, team success is part of it, but it's not everything.

Like it has to me, it's like one third of it. Like I said, you have accolades, longevity, and peak. And Donovan said if you look at the best reference page, this adds up. I don't even, I mean, in terms of team accomplishments, yeah. But I think individual accolades, he has a pretty impressive run. Like I said, his five-year peak from 2001 and 2005, six in MVP, fourth, fourth, nothing, and then seventh. That's not that common. Two first-team all-N-BAs, two second-team all-MBAs, and one-third.

We're going to see a running theme here. First-team all-MBAs in a bunch like that are not easy to come by. You would think all the best players' generation you'd think of, just rattled them off. Not everybody does. Reggie Miller never made higher than third-team all-MBA. It's really impressive, especially this is, it was during the beginning of Kobe's Prime, too. like it was a pretty good era of the league and he was twice in a row and in that four year span always in the top three of his position at least being first or second team like that's a really

good individual run and I think individual accomplishments and accolades and how you're measured against the league are you considered one the 10 months of valuable players every year are you consider one the five most on all NBA like that matters to me almost as much of championships okay yeah I can I can see that I also I have to give him a pass though because Doc Rivers was his coach at the same time so like they're blowing all these playoff leads you could look at the sideline and be like yeah that's his fault yeah david thompson is interesting player i have a lot some of these guys i have all these guys hired than you do besides david thompson i think i have him in this tier he's so interesting because he is so utterly dominant for four years exactly he falls off

yeah literally has four all-star years second and MVP seventh third eighth very efficient average in five points for game and all four of those in the late 70s on three percent higher than the average true shooting percentage that's pretty impressive for that era but after four years it's just devolves into nothing so he's very hard to rank yeah he came into the league at what like 23 years old or something like that and straight hooping pretty much came into the league at towards the peak of his prime or whatever and seeing what he was able to do and see that like translate into the playoffs on a consistent basis was very impressive but at the same time to again like great peak but also not much to show for it yeah and you know is what it is for

your peak that's like I said we had just for me like I said three categories accolades he doesn't have many peak great longevity has zero so when you have zero on longevity you're going to be the bottom half 100% let's rule the next person so we can prepare some names because this is a very interesting tier right next up I have before I say my three here I have three honorable mentions I just got my first cuts. At 31, I had Devin Booker, 32, Pete Marevich, and 33, Reggie Miller. Those are my first day to make it. Reggie Miller did not make your list.

Two of those names are popular names from people that play 2K and hear about these legends of the game, and they think these guys have to be top 30. They fucking absolutely are not. And you guys know what I'm talking about it's not Devin Booker. I think Devin Booker will actually get his way on this list once he has more longevity. Fair. But the two old heads do not deserve to be here. I don't care.

But my bottom five, Clay Thompson, 26, 27 Joe Dumars, 28, Kyrie Irving, 29 Mono Genoblee, and 30 David Thompson. Wow, you got Genoblee over Reggie Miller. People are going to be mad about that. Tell me why. Tell me why I should be upset

about having the four-time champion integral part of a dynasty who has tons of success, who had his own two all-star years when he actually played the high enough minutes, who made an all-N-B-A team. Why should I feel bad about putting that guy above somebody,

Reggie Miller, third team was never higher than 13th in MVP voting. Never made the finals. Did he make the finals? Why am I drawn to blank? No, he made the finals. No, maybe he made the finals one in spot. I forgot. I said that. Then I was like, oh, wait, now I remember him in the finals. Never won a final. So never had like the success to really push him over the edge there. A couple good runs making conference finals, but no real individual success to point to. He doesn't rack up the accolades, doesn't rack with the rings like Manu does. I don't know what, like who should I put him above on this bottom five and feel really confident in that? I mean, you could,

put him above manu like that's that's just why yeah that's the one just because it's different manu the idea of manu is i agree i know you're gonna i agree you know what i'm saying like like you it's very very easy to take everything that that manu did in his career and extrapolate it and say hey if he was actually a starter the way that he should have been yeah he would be in 15th on this list or whatever right and everyone's going to go back and you say hey he was held back he was doing all this you actually still have to rank people based off of where where they were what they did and i think for reggie being able to be the number one for the pacers who had a lot of success and like a lot of teams in that era just got stopped because they were playing jordan right

like especially out east you you run it into that bus saw a whole bunch of times but But, I mean, there's a lot of other guys on this list and that don't necessarily have, like, the high, high-end accomplishments. And I think for Reggie, for me, the reason why I put him on my list is because the, I actually think he's a little bit underrated offensively. Okay. I think doing what he did and running around and being like this off ball guy in 1989, right, and all throughout the 90s, it provided a different style of basketball that people weren't really ready for. And if Reggie was playing in, you know, if it was 20 years later, maybe not even 20, maybe 10 years later, if he was able to be in Ray Allen's position and you're able to get

the volume of three's, his primary skill set and really, you know, elevate that, it's probably a different story for how we're looking at Reggie and his points and stuff like that. And I think that, I agree. And I think that you still see a long period of success for the Pacers with Reggie at the helm, despite a lot of the changes that they went through throughout the 90s and the early 2000s. Yeah, I agree. But again, you said with Manu, we can't extrapolate what we think it can be. Even if you just look at what he did as a six man, he has the exact same accomplishments as Reggie Miller, as an individual.

Reggie Miller and again, I reiterate, I measure this with three criteria, three to five-year peak, accolades and longevity. In Reggie Miller's four-year peak, third-team all-NBA, third-team all-MBA, three times with the gap year in between, just 13th, and one MVP ballot, 16th. And those were good teams. That was 95 through 98. So he was leading good offense, and I understand that that's important, right? His teams were consistently very good. They were around 10th at the worst in offensive rating all those years. Actually, they were 15th in 1997.

So they weren't high-level offenses per se. Look at Manu. Obviously, the championships are the championships, right? You can decide how much you want to weigh that. But Mondery from 2008-2011, 10th and MVP, third team all-in-a. Sixth and six-man of the year. Then 11th an MVP, eighth-in-MvP, third-team all-M-Ba. He was hired on the MVP ballot as a six-man consistently and as just as many all-M-BAs as Reggie Miller, despite not being a first option.

Like, if you want to think Reggie Miller would be more talented across eras because the shooting would translate today, great. I don't necessarily hate you thinking that he's a slightly more talented player. if we're just measuring what they did in their era I think it's undoubtable that one was more successful and that outweighs any talent difference I wasn't trying to play the Joker card but here I go Go for it

Who goes toe to toe with the Knicks Who's going who's doing that Who's looking Spike Lee in his face Who's giving the internet a choking meme For eternity Nobody's doing that like Reggie Miller Counterpoint Counterpoint

Counterpoint Who blocked James Hardin from the back Who blocked James Hardin from the back and gave you a years worth of James Harden Downfall Memes. I know you enjoyed that. I did enjoy that. Shout out, Manu.

Listen, I appreciate that. You got, listen, I appreciate that. That really did help me. I was going to be sick if they won that series. Who was on the beautiful game 2014 team? Listen, all I'm saying is, all I'm saying is shout out. Who's led LeBron twice? Shout out Manu.

It's hard because there also is the piece where you're playing off a top, you know, top seven player top eight player of all time and obviously like if you look at the spur stuff a lot of the stuff that they were doing is because of monu like they're able to be as dynamic on the perimeter even getting downhill all that stuff for sure the scoring because of because of moni but it's a little bit different being being one and but I do hear your argument before because for a lot of guys on this list and especially whenever we get to all time rankings we can do like the if ands or butts all day but but but there there does come a point where what happened happened and you just have to judge people based off of the results so i i do

i do get it i think that reggie should be on this list um so if you want to put my new higher than reggie that's cool but i do think that reggie is one of the 30 best guards of all time he can be 30 he can put over david thompson he's a short enough run that's cool with me yeah yeah i also appreciate the longevity that Reggie Miller had throughout those treacherous Pacer's teams as well it's harder to give credit to a dude whose team consistently like not consistently sucks but this isn't

like doesn't match up to competition at all I think those are also part of the reasons why he has gotten snubbed and doesn't have as many accolades when it comes to little shit like all-star games and things of that nature so I see him as the talent

and I appreciate that a little bit more and I and I kind of overlooked the accolades because he was truly out of his time. Again, being ahead of your time doesn't mean much. I mean, it means that you'd be good today, which great in hypothetical, you, awesome. Focus on the other part. Yeah, focus on the other part. I said, not the last 10, not the last 10 sentences. Well, what other part you said, if I remember correctly, you said that his team wasn't

quite good enough so he didn't have the all NBA teams because the team sucked. It's easy to snub. Making your team good is a baseline level of being an all-time great player, is lifting your team, driving a high-level offense, driving wins. there's only so much that a guard can do what we see Tray Young going through right now it's like kind of similar things where it's like yeah that guy kind of sucks

like Trey Young is the top 30 guard of all time either yeah I know but I'm saying like we understand why he doesn't get a certain level of credit and respect and I think similar things are happening right now yeah and I think that's a difference between being a top 30 guard and not of being able to you know you'd hit a long career

like you said a lot of longevity never quite had a run of individual excellence or team excellence that measures up to people above him so it's it's tough i feel like he has tv announcer clout tv announcer cloud tv announcer cloud it's more it's more msg it's more msg announcer yeah that's really that's really that's really that's really that's really that's really what it is but okay how do you guys feel about the rest of these names here kairi's here how do you guys feel about that people are good that's going to be very contentious pick on this list obviously i don't i don't hate it at all i think kairi deserves to be on here it's interesting that you

to me that you have Clay over Kyrie I can understand I can understand it because Clay's he has the defensive resume in terms of like you know

being known as a defender on the NBA consistently whatever one of the best shooters as well and he's uber consistent throughout his career unlike Kyrie who's had like wild ups and downs yeah but we know what Kyrie is the first option

it's not pretty. He's an amazing second option. Like, one of the best second option guards you could hope for playing next to a true, like two-way playmaker, like you see with LeBron and Luca. Kyrie's like the ultimate weapon to put next to him. Clay Thompson's pretty amazing in that role too. Clay Thompson is wildly more successful in that role, obviously part of a dynasty. And it's hard to decide how much you want to weigh team success versus just skill and stuff. It has some matter some, you know, and one is just as, you know, equally valuable as a second option potentially in the primes, way more accomplished.

Longevity is similar? I don't know. Yeah, it's hard. They've both been... They're close by for a reason. There is a reason they're right next to each other. Yeah, exactly.

So if I say a few words, then I know I could get you to easily, like, flip them or whatever, but it's just two spots. Yeah, 26. Clay, Dumas, and Kyrie, I don't full passionate about that order. You could put Kyrie above Clay and I don't have a problem with it.

As long as you view all three of those guys in the same tier. I thought Dumars would be a little bit higher, but, because I had them a little bit higher. Surprise, surprise. But, um... Yeah, it's just interesting. Shout to David Thompson.

No one cares. Shout out, Scott Walker. Let's see Donovan's bottom five. All right. I have Cindy Moncrief at 26. I have Reggie Miller at 27. Ray Allen at 28. Manu at 29 and then Kyrie at 30.

Wow. Okay. So you have Moni in the same exact place as me. I love that we discussed that positioning for quite a while. Yes. It's more about Reggie being over him. Yeah. But yeah.

the two shooters over him, Kyrie at the Toronto Dout, sending Moncrief at 26, which I'm assuming for, well, actually Mel has him at 27. I'm assuming you have him higher. I've got him a good amount higher.

Yeah. I think like for Moncrief, Moncrief is cool. And if you want to put him higher, okay, he really is like, he's Drew Holiday with the bag. And,

yeah. Wow, that is insanely valuable. Like to be, you know, an elite defender. and they'll also be able to go out on the other end and give you 20. The scoring just wasn't as high as what some of, you know, the other guys were. And even the people that I put above him, I think they're a little bit more plug-in-play,

have a little bit more accomplishments. So that's why I put him at 26. But I'm interested to see where you put him because I'll, listen, I'm going to judge you. But it's going to be. Well, I'll give my big Sidney Moncrue spiel when we get to him because I have him Really high a lot higher. Okay a lot higher a lot higher a lot higher a lot higher more than a tear higher Okay, he's 13. I see 13 be crazy when I'm well I mean listen he's a DPOI and whenever we'll get to it. Yeah, Miller over Allen

That's tough their individual accolades are very similar. I guess I could Miller's probably More accomplishes a one option leading offense Ray Allen didn't lead good teams when he was one But being a complimentary piece on championship team is also, like, you know, that... That's a situation, though. It's not everything. It's not everything. I think that's just a situational. And I think you need to, like, take a step back, use that perspective and see the player

for what he is rather than like what actually happened at the same time, you know? No, I mean, sure. But we also can't ignore, it's an all-time convo. Taking a step back isn't ignoring it. It's just like acknowledging, yeah, you want a ring. This player was there and this player is there and you had a certain system around you. I don't you mean. He wasn't Danny Green.

He wasn't just there. He was an integral part, you know, like, I see what you're getting at. It's like, they had a stack team, so that's why they won, and that's not something Reggie Miller ever had the fortune of having. Gray Allen's a big part of why that team worked, you know, they, like, he wasn't just along for the ride. Yeah. For sure.

Well, I mean, listen, he was more along for the ride for the, for the second ring, for the Miami one. I don't give a shit about the Miami Ring. That's the one where he was along for the ride. Yeah. And again, listen, you, listen, you hit the most important shot in NBA history. Again, shout out to you, Ray. Like that moment in itself gets you to a certain place.

I just think that like when you start talking about like early Ray and how talented he is and how much of a different player that you think of, like I think Ray Allen really should get a lot of credit in terms of how his game really, really changed from his days in Milwaukee and Seattle to what he was in Boston because people don't understand how athletic he was. I think people kind of get shocked whenever you go back and you see these, you know, you see the highlights and you see the games and you're like, oh wow, he is like he actually has bounce.

Yeah. And I know a lot of the conversation from really like six years ago when Clay was still healthy was like, oh, if Clay ever got his own team, what would that look like? It would probably look something very, very similar to what Ray Allen's years look like, right? In terms of production, obviously not like aesthetically, it would look like that because Ray really was talented like that.

I just think that I really do think that Reggie is a little bit underrated at this point because I think the last couple years people have started to feel a little bit closer to Isaac. But they're like, you look at the page, you're like, wait, what is this guy even like gray at, right? Like, why is he here? Why is he in these conversations? And I think as somebody who is one of the greatest shooters of all time and has a, a lot of that, you know, like the off-ball movement and the gravity and all this other stuff. Like, I think that you can do a lot with him and being that for like 18 years means a lot for me personally.

So that's why I have him at 27. Yeah. And I don't want to pretend that. I'm being dismissive of Reggie Miller, but I'm not trying to say he's like not very talented. It's just I think, again, you can simultaneously think that he's incredibly skilled and would be incredibly great in this modern era with the shooting and he was ahead of his time. You can think all these things and also realize that when comparing him

to other Hall of Famers and gauging who has a better mix of accomplishment skill and whatnot, he just didn't accomplish much at all. Like Ray Allen has double his all-star games,

whatever that means for you. The same amount of all NBA teams obviously has a ring and he doesn't. More, I don't know, I don't really care about counting stats but he has like better averages and stuff if that matters to you.

Obviously Ray Allen's insanely efficient also one the best shooters at all time and the same way Ray Allen was and the same way Reggie Miller is. Ray Allen matches that. Like I just, don't really see what Miller bring. Like, if Miller had like

won something as a first option, I would understand you give him that credit for being able to do it with a much harder circumstance. But it's not like that led to tremendous success either. I'll say... But making a follows does mean something. So I don't, I'm not trying to say he just was just running around like a bozo. And I'll say this. Also,

probably his best opportunity for a championship. People are out here throwing beers that run our test. And it's like, hey, listen, Like, you let the whole lose. Like, he was going to get the ring. It was, his whole career was about to be complete.

And then people want to go ahead and while out and, you know, what happened happened. But, like, Reggie Miller was on the, was on the precipice of having that, you know, having that go down. So it, uh, yeah, that, that part sucks for him. But it's, yeah, he's a very interesting person and interesting. He's so interesting. Yeah. It's crazy how you think he's underrated. And I think he's overrated.

And I don't think either of us are wrong in our assessments. He's just such a polarizing player In the mix of like People are gonna view his career based on today's game You have to You're something like Rosabachtin today's And people are gonna see like Oh he would translate perfectly

But how much does that matter Compared to what he actually did? Like he's always gonna be very interesting history For that reason For sure For sure Okay we can move on Just the most time we've ever spent

In the bottom five I like it It's gonna be a nice long ranking Next five From 21 through 25 I have Walt Frazier at 21 Ray Allen at 22 Damien Lillard at 23 Tony Parker at 24

and Clyde Drexer at 25 Tony at 24 is wild It's too hot No it's too Yeah it's too hot I actually would have had Tony would have for me

He was an honorable mention I really I didn't say my Yeah he's not he's not on my list He but if I did He would have been in the tier below this Yeah He was top 12 in MVP voting six times.

Oh, shout out. Like, I... Shout out. That's crazy. I understand. Listen, I've had times in the pod in the past few months where I've downplayed Tony Parker too.

But like I said, I have a criteria. I had a clear criteria. The three things. Tony Parker has a success in the accolades, obviously with all the rings. We know he's part of that dynasty.

Obviously, it all starts and style off of Tim Duncan, but just like Monu Parker was a key role in that. And even more key role than Mono, you would say, right? He was given the opportunity to be... actually debatable I actually think opportunity yeah they needed him

okay what money okay what do you think it's true or not they're at least tied so I'm giving him the same boost there I gave to Manu six all-stars seven times on the MVP ballot two second team all-NBAs one third team all-NBA or three second team all NBA that's a lot more individual accomplishments and you realize to go with the rings like he was routinely valued as one of the top 15 players in the NBA which again we look at a lot of players don't have that. That's not a given to have the type of recognition.

That's not as common as you would think. Clyde Drexha doesn't have that many. And that's who's below him and obviously the rings. Again, if we go back and forth, I'm not going to give somebody a higher nod because they were one option with less success just because being a one option is hard.

I think it has to be a balance of all these things. And again, I get it. He's a second option. He's Jamal Murray on steroids playing next to potentially the second grade is big of all time depending on where you rank them. He had an easier path in a lot of these guys. But they won with it.

you know the path was there for them and they hit it i can't get i can't ding him and pretend i don't see these crazy accomplishments jamaul murray on steroids that is i simply do not see i don't yeah out of all these group of players tony park i love him and i think he's one of the most underrated players he doesn't belong period but he's easily like the worst player here when it comes to talent and what he actually like you know what he's also easily the most accomplished so it balances that's why he's next to them exactly better but less accomplished but he's not getting but he's not getting those accomplishments you think and like Tony Parker's not getting on the MVP ballot because Tony Parker's out here like dominate like that they're out here winning 60

games a year Tim Duncan is hooping Manu's whooping and then they're like then we do the thing that we did with Devin Booker and wait how many like top five finishes because if he's like 10th on the ballot yeah if he's like 10th on the MVP ballot I don't he has a fifth fifth sixth eighth and ninth. Fifth and six is legit. For talking a three-year peak, fifth and sixth? Okay, that's that's cool. That's cool. You can have you can have fifth and six. Eight and nine do not move me. And even

even fifth and six is still pushing it. Even fifth and six is still pushing. We have to pay attention of what they did as individuals. He was second team All-MBA in those years. That is not easy to do when you have Lillard, Steph, Westbrook, Hardin, all these guys were in the league. This is like 2013. Being second

to all-MBA in a stack guard year, it's not easy. He was a very good player in his own Steps, ankles were broken. That was, yeah, Dame was a Dane was just coming in to anybody you want. I'm just saying, I'm just saying. James Harder and barely grew it in his beard. Like, that's not.

What was Chris Paul doing at that time? He was trying to find his way out. He was up to. He just got to L.A. I can't speak on what he did. Yeah, he was on his way out. I know it's high. Again, I know it's high for this skill set.

I don't think he's next to Lillard in terms of how good they are. But I think when you're in an all-time ranking, you have to bounce both. Like, it would be real easy for me to just, say these new players are better and that I think they're better basketball players but it's not even about this if we're not going to do accolades it's not even about like just new players he's not better than Clyde Drexler like that's the that's the that's the that's the thing where I'm like

but he accomplished a million times more that's why he's higher obviously it's a sliding scale again he might not even be the second best player on that team like I 100% would take manu over over Tony Parker and so like that's the that's the area where I where I'm like I don't know if he can be at 24 over some of, some of these other guys. I think on a majority of teams, when you start to extrapolate, you know, what people's skill sets are doing and how, you know, they're accomplished and what they've done, I'd take, I'd be able to take Clay Thompson over Tony, over Tony Park. And I think that if you had Clay Thompson as a second option somewhere, you have a better foundation, obviously depending on who the personnel is, but Clay fits with

so many other people, you have a better foundation to build a solid team. rather than Tony Parker. Again, no disrespect. He belonged. I don't disagree. He can be on the list, but, well, I mean, dude, you had Clay lower. But, like, no, because you're describing one criteria of who you'd rather have on your team. And I agree, that's fair.

But there's a balance to what they accomplish individually as a team and how good they are. Your scale is all off. Like, he's not getting that because he's like that. Like, he- If Brock Purdy had four fucking rings, he would be a top 30 quarterback of all time. We're not going to get started on that. Who the hell is the fuck about? Because I'm not going to lose my cool. But Tony Parker is...

Not that many quarterbacks have four rings. Again, we're not going to start on that. But Tony Parker is not out here. Like, I understand that he is critical. But there is a... There is a point where, like, you're lining guys up. And yes, like, the accolades mean stuff and the stuff that... I don't have my 12, right?

Like, I have him crazy eye. He's in the back five, back six. But, like, I'm going to need you to be for real. Like, Tony Parker is not better than Clive. Like, this is not happening. Is he ranking just on skill or not? Are you going to, you have to give a baseline respect to accomplishments. Otherwise, this list is not going to be consistent at all.

No, I'm saying when there's a massive talent gap between two players, I'm not going to put Tony Parker ahead of some of these guys. Your scale needs to realign itself. Exactly. I think your scale needs to realign itself. That bitch is a little broken. Not going to lie to you. you're gonna cry dexter hired clairexia's fine honestly

I think cry Jackson might have got lost in the shuffle of moving names around I don't feel passionate about Parker and Drexler Drexler can be a couple spots higher now I'm looking at Drexor should be higher but yeah we get it we're all good now I'm okay is Drexia the only one you care about

I'm just seeing Tony Parker's name you could have it fucking flip him I don't give a shit about that it's kind of weird to have Tony Parker like a spot under dame but I'm cool with it it's just weird seeing his name in this type of air that's what I'm saying You have to give, if you don't give a baseline, it's not even just rings. If you don't respect all NBA teams, MVP ballots, rings, all these accomplishments, you're

not going to have a consistent list. It's going to be just like incredibly biased towards new players who you think of more talented and more numbers. Like you have to give a respect to the accomplishment. No, I get, I get that. And I'm just saying that, I guess that, that's the one where it's kind of, it's, there's nuances to every conversation. Where it's kind of, it's kind of shocking to see that one.

If Dame has had a. career where when you put up his accomplishments from like year one to now it's like you know nothing nothing nothing beer grown i understand like that's his career path and so there is a certain element of hey you just don't have really anything to show for except literally a mickey mouse MVP that's literally the only thing that he has is a bubble MVP and so i i get it i'm i'm cool with that i think that dame is a you know a better player but tony parker is up there and he has an accomplice up so I get that it we're really arguing about 24 and 25 right yeah that's I don't say I don't think I don't think Parker been director that was lost in the

shovel you can put director 24 Parker 25 I'm not dying on that hill at all I that's not argument I care to put energy into we got one and very I'm very happy with Parker at 24 to 26 range I think that's very fair to like give him credit for what he did despite you not feeling like he's as individually talented like results have to matter yeah we got I understand that I just think sometimes when it comes to a point to where I notice that you're not like, you're really not on that, like, damn near tier at some of these guys. I'm like, okay, that's where the nuances have to be made. You're downplaying it too much.

He was not a bum. Again, this is a second team all-MBA guy that's routinely an All-Star. Like, we're not, we're pretending he's worse than he is. I know the crowning stats aren't there because he's playing in that system with Tim Duncan that they don't. He's not spamming ISOs and stuff, you know, it's not going to lead to high big numbers. But Tony Parker was very good, very well-respected for that time. Go look at any list of top players in league. He's always in the top 10 back then.

And, like, he, I underrated him for most of my basketball life until recently. Listen. Listen, I appreciate Tony Parker. Yeah, I do, I do too. And the fact that he's in this tier is fine. When you start getting, when we go for the rest of this ranking, right, talent doesn't matter. If you can't do it, hezy, hexy tween cross, I'm not putting you in my toss. I agree with that.

No, I'm with you. I know what you mean. Yeah. For me, the number is 18. 18 and above is the guys where you have to be like Hall of Fame, all-time level players. I don't feel that bad putting him in. in the tier with Lode and Drexler, who are very talented at doing absolutely fucking nothing. Great individual players that accomplish jack shit.

I don't feel bad about putting a very accomplished guy who's a little bit worse than that in the tier with them. And when we get to Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, all these guys, obviously I'm not putting Parker in the same conversation. That's fair. Okay. All right, who's next? Beard grove.

All right. At 21, I have Clyde Drexler. At 22, I have Clay Thompson. 23, I have Gary Payton. At 24, I have John Stockton. and at 25, I have Tracy McGrady. Wow. Okay.

I under, I, I, and honestly, that's not even looking at this right now, the hardest one for me and the one that I kind of just kept moving down was Gary Payton, but I, I was going to say there's a, there's a range for, there's a, there's a range for Gary Payton where I'm like, you really could be higher. And I think that looking at this right now, I would have Gary Payton over Clyde excellent. Yeah, that's the part like, I think 21 could be the floor for Payton. I have the next year, obviously. That's the one

for me. But everything else, but everything else, I do stand on. I think Stockton and Payton have been right by each other. And I think I have Stockton one spot higher. I think they have very similar measurables and I like to disrespect Stockton as much as anybody. I disrespect them as much as anybody,

but Stockton has a great career, obviously. Yeah. And you can only regard what they did in their time. And for his time, his job was fucking easy compared to a lot of the guards but they needed it well it's okay I start every like we're doing these all-time rankings and obviously all of these players are all-time players and everybody everybody's a hall of fame or everybody's all this all that so you're really splitting hairs at a certain point and for me my tiebreaker is always hey if we're starting a team or if I'm or we're going

into a playoff series tomorrow if we close the door take off all the noise and I'm in there with the coaching staff and I say do you want this guy do you want that guy who who are they probably going to go with and Stockton is just the guy that if you go through a lot of the guards throughout and again it's not just point guards it's point guards and shooting guards where yeah yeah I think I kind of want these other guys over John Stockton and it's no it's it's it's not met this honestly some of the rankings that we've had right like when we did the centers and i had deandra a in at like 26 like yeah he probably could have been at 21 and i was trying to make a point but whatever but i but i genuinely do think like all of the players above john stockton

on this list i would rather have them on my team than him yeah wow i'm i get that i'm with you i have i have i have next of payton as well but the way you mentioned bumping payton up a little bit for the reasons you have, I had the same reasons for Stockton. So all the reasons that you might give to put Peyton above Drexler, I feel the same way about Stockton. I just like they're, I feel like they're so tied to each other. Man, isn't me?

Two things. One thing, really, isn't me or do I feel like you guys are sleeping on Clyde Drexler? One of the only players in, you know, in the MJ era who was able to look him in the eyes like that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. Glant's at him.

I'm going to hate. I'm going to hate. Clyde Drexler gets all the narrative credit in the world for looking like Michael Jordan and playing sort of similar and being the best guard behind Michael Jordan. That is straight narrative blowing smoke up his ass. I don't think there's any reason to put him high above guys like a little or whatever. He was not hyper-efficient. Didn't have a jump shot, obviously.

I don't have a good grasp how good to what's defensively. So maybe he was locked down. I don't quite know that part about his game. Didn't accomplish anything as a one option. Now he did scale down next to Hakeem and win, which that is a thing that matters. the only thing holding him up in your head, I think, is the narrative that he's the best shooting guard behind Jordan of his era, just because people say that.

And that's, and even that, that was something to where before they meet up in the finals, everyone's like, okay, yeah, we're doing that. And then they get to the finals and they play off. Yeah. They play against each other. And everyone's like, oh, yeah, like one of these is the, levels.

Exactly. One of these is a phantom. The other one is a Chrysler 300. That's kind of what we're dealing with. And so for Clyde, like, Yes, he does have some like really good scoring years, but now, man, like it really is. There's a lot of people in the 90s that get credit. And listen, maybe even Reggie is one of those guys from earlier where you get a boost and you get graded on a curve because you are in this era with Jordan who's ended up, you know, with all the rings.

And it's like, well, what are you going to do, right? like you were there you were there nobody else was was really going to win so by all means do what you got to do but he he really shouldn't be ahead of of some of these other guys and he he has a lot of the stuff right he has he meets a lot of the criteria in terms of you know being a one option he's scored like 27 in a season he's been a high volume score he's led a team to the finals he has all of that that's also one of the points where you look at at their games and you watch you're like no he's just not as talented as some of the other guys yeah he's i think he needs to be right next to lillard like i said i'll i'll flip drexone parker that was a mistake on my end

lillard 23 drexer 24 is like to me they're the same guy and obviously dregs maybe you could put drexer higher because they did make a finals and that matters making a finals is an accomplishment like it's not as much as winning obviously but that does matter and lord doesn't have that so if you want to give resume like lillard never had a top three mp finish Drexler had one and another one around the fifth so yeah you could put it right above Lillard you could swap them yeah

but they got to be right near each other I think oh man I realize I think I committed basketball sin because wholeheartedly I think Lillard is the best like Blazer of all time it's close but I think I would give the notch to litter because of the little that he had to

the so little that he helped that he had around his career and how much he's been able to accomplish a making to the West Conference finals not the finals but he got close enough with guys like al-Farukamino on his team and uh you know robin lopez and boys like that or whatever but nonetheless all the smoke that i have really is for someone like john stockton surprise surprise did not make my list and i do not feel bad about it see that's the slightest you're a crown here you're a cranier through and through when i respected you've always hated

john stockton so you're like off the list fuck him and i respect it he was my 31 i literally only had one honorable mention. I didn't care to mention anyone else. Who's most next five? You can roll into it. You can roll into it. Okay. So 21, Frazier. 22.

Kyrie Irving, 23. Reggie Miller. 24. Ray Allen and 25 Dumars. Okay. It's not a bad. It's not a bad tier. No. I think I would. It's cool. I might have Joe Dumars higher. well I mean

you'd have them highest out of all of us okay yeah like higher tier wow this man Donovan fucking loves the bad boy pistons I know he's gonna they are elite people don't

well I save it but yes I love Joe Dumars too that finals MVP meant everything to me but I also see through that finals MVP and I'm just like come on yeah I'm realizing now that

the back 15 or actually back 10 uh in terms of your gauging accomplishments and skill i moved more for the accomplishments because these guys weren't the elite of the elite so i want more resume there but in the next one the top 20 is a lot more they're all accomplished so skill matters more so that's a difference in our list i'm seeing a lot of guys higher here that are more skilled like kairi reggie miller ray allen that's fine i just opted to if you're not like one of the best of all time accomplishments mattered a lot to me yeah i'm just going for like who are you like straight up a better player and so far in this list I feel pretty confident in what I've been

saying I believe yeah and if that's what you don't want to do it fine I honestly don't have a problem with that I think it's a different list if you do just who's best at their peak I want to do a balance of both but if you're doing just for the peak and that's your criteria that's completely fine it's just like again it's a this is the part where we always talk about different criterias nuances this is the one where it's literally we're literally making different list I tried my best to add accolades into that and really like acknowledge that as well but I don't know I feel I feel like Mo like hit the way that he's structured in his list is cool because when you get to like this bottom half you look around and it's like hey man we're all losers like you all lost right nobody nobody won rings on rings on rings and was doing all this because obviously if you were you would be top 10 top 15 so at this point who is the better player I think and that's fair I think I think towards the back half I think that makes a lot of sense I still put a that's cool I get the logic of both

when it comes down to not the best you can either decide you want to go towards talent or towards accomplishments either one's fine that makes sense to me yeah the only okay I don't have a ton to say about this tier I would move Kyrie down I'll probably swap him with I don't want to say Joe Dumars or whatever

but he needs to be like 25 probably 26 instead of being that's fair because Fraser Menace Reggie Miller has insane longevity never was able to get it done but the consistent that he showed at that with the responsibility he's placed on his shoulders got to respect it ray allen longevity of course and he got it done in multiple well i don't can i don't say versions

of his career but he's been consistent yeah okay yeah i think joe dumars being above kairri makes sense just because we know that kaira can't be the best player on a team yeah if he if we had never seen it there could have been a lot of people being like listen if you gave kairri a team he could have been averaging 30 but we seen him have the chance and it just doesn't go well we know he's limited to being a secondary guy just like Joe Dumars and one was just a lot more accomplished in that role yeah exactly correct shout to all fraser we got we lockstep okay donovan i see you got a lot higher yeah yeah honestly so this bottom 10 this is the longest we've ever spent in the bottom 10 we're 48 minutes into this bitch god damn this is the next 20 are going to be a lot

more lockstep i think because now we're getting to like the legends we'll see this should be less debatable i think we'll see let's start the next tier who's who's out all right donovan all right At 16, I have Alan Iverson, 17, I have Walt Frazier, 18, I have Dane, 19, I have Pistol P. And at 20, I have Tito-Mars. I just love that. I think this is pretty solid. Okay, well, there's a polar bear in Arlington, Texan, Arlington, Texas. There is a big polar bear.

There is the one dragon with the goofy face. I just love that. Every list we do, you're a fucking hater, and I'm the positive one trying to, like, dispel it. and this list I've just become the hater of all these old motherfuckers. Pete Marevich is so fucking overrated by NBA 2K and highlights. Pete Marevich is the most

the single most overrated player in NBA history and it's not close. Wow! You officially made the statement. Here we are. The single most. Pete Marevich had one elite year in his entire career. He was third and MVP voting

first time on NBA. That's his best year. His team had 35 wins. He averaged 31 points per game, which was obviously a lot. In 41 minutes. The league average, average true shooting percentage that year was fit the league average true shooting was 51%

his true shooting percentage was 48% he was less efficient than the average of the league a fucking chucker who played every minute of the game got high in the VP ballot because he was flashy as shit looks crazy for that era nobody had ever seen someone dribble like that didn't lead to winning at all ever didn't lead to efficiency at all ever didn't make people better at all ever straight flash this is awesome river's place in the 70s yeah homie had them hate notes off locked in ready. Oh my god. Are you prepared for this? Very fun player. The highlights

are awesome. When you get his pull his cards and 2K my team, he's a fucking beast. He's so cool. He can shoot. You can dribble. Awesome for that era. Never meant a damn thing ever. You know what I think it is? You met pistol Pete one day when you're like five years old or something. You said pistol pistol pistol please sign my jersey. He's looked at you. It was like get out of my face kid. I put pistol Pete in honorable mentions just because I feel like I had to because people like him so much. If you told me there was 36 guards better than him, I would not be upset.

If you'd rather have Donovan Mitchell on a hot to all-time ranking than Pistol Pete, not upset. You don't have to go. You can say Trey Young. Me, Percy, like, if I put Pistol Pete in this. They're making me hate Trey-Young. Golly, man. Look at this.

What are you talking about? What has Pistol Pete done in his career that Trey-Young has it done already? Come on. Be born in the 70s? Come on, man. That's what he's done. That's always a six all-star teams in the 70s and not his Hall of Fame. Now, I'm sure, I think I'm right for all-time rankings, but to be fair, there is value in

being revolutionary for your time, advancing dribbling techniques, advancing style of play. All that's cool, you're influential. That matters to the story of the NBA, and if you want to reward him at a Hall of Fame spot for that. And I think he was a good college player, if I remember correctly. I get it. Doesn't mean he's a top 20 guard of all time. I like it.

He had a nice bag. And he plus, he had a top five nickname in NBA history. The Crairondie Special. Top 10. And the nickname, he had a cool nickname. really fancy hair for the time he looked like using the Beatles straight aura pick

once again first off you pulled off true shooting for like the 70s which is just hilarious there's nothing wrong with it it's just funny it's just funny league average

51% of the time 48% you know how easy it is to be an all-time player and be more efficient than everybody else in the 70s you know how fucking easy it is when everybody's out here throwing up bricks

you can't be league average bro gas was 67 if you can't be fucking average gas was 67 sense a gallon you're talking about true shooting they did not know what they were doing it's a different world that's the point neither did he

you look at jay west jay west is a million times more fishing than everybody because he's playing with a bunch of people that don't know the fundamentals of basketball that's why he's hiring very much blends in with the regulars like once listen there is like you know a lot about basketball but the one area that you seem to

always forget that the game is about a bucket okay and pistol beat gets bucket He does it That is your blind spot 35% of the time Listen, 35% of the time

It works all the time Okay So Pistol Pete Pistol Pete is out here Doing stuff He watched five minutes Of Pittsburgh highlights He said oh no

He liked that He got to be at number 19 Doing stuff You saw the highlight With him fake pass him on his back And him the fucking layup He wanted to like

Oh this these boys A different Literally Lillard Dumars Fraser Iverson Wow like it's such a polar bearer

yeah yeah for sure you know how we how we felt about Tony Parker being a part of that tier like this is even worse maybe a little bit even worse actually my guy has four rings and all these all NBA teams Pete Marevish has a nickname

but that nickname carries and plus them old school jerseys that he used to wear too goddamn maybe I messed up on this list but yes five all-star team so yeah so I mean that's the rest of my list though

that's 16 through 20 okay I like the rest of it thank you I appreciate that yeah besides the polar bear I like load being high I mean I haven't lower but talent wise I'm cool with it I understand you're gonna respect Walt Frazier Nick's legend shout out

I don't have a problem with any of these cool beams with me you can move wrong to the next it's Monex all right Mo here we go oh man I hate it so much I hate it I hated I hate it I hated I hate it I hated I hate it 16 Russell Westrook 17 Bob Coosie Steve Nash 18 Gary Payton 19 and I got kid at 20 I don't care about none of that got Bob Coosie

bro I forgot Bob Coosie existed I'm not gonna lie I didn't even think about him on my list stop what do you what no I know cool go for good for you if you want to respect what everybody did in their era and be truly objective go for it that man is accomplished. That's cool. Bob Coossey is the ultimate salute player. I'm not putting you on the top 30 list, Bob. Like, that's not happening. You can not. You can put Manu Genoobli on that list, but you can't put Bob Coosie? Bob Coosie, if you put Bob Coosie, but you refuse to put Stockton, you're hilarious. Oh no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. I'm not. Oh, no, I'm not. Oh, no, I'm not. Dude, Bob Coosie would have slurred Manu Genoobli after getting hit with a

step i'm not doing this i'm not putting him on the list he wouldn't be ready for it oh my goodness could you imagine bob coozy in 2004 after after the u.s lost in the olympics he was going crazy i'm not doing i'm not i'm not putting him top 30 look i respect him for what he did respect him for his time saw the accolades cool he has to be there that's what the conversation he really doesn't have to be there no i get it i mean sure you i get i get i get i get I'm joking, but you can only respect people what did in their era. That's totally fine if you want to go back that far. I tend to feel that way until we hit 1969.

Before then, I'm like, my eyes are simply off. I can respect the 70s. The 60s is the one I'm like, man. I understand. They're not Jerry Western, but Russell, I don't know. I understand it. You know, like the league and expansion and all that of this up and how many teams. It's different conversations for sure.

But it's just one of the things, it's just like. I put a lot of time into. learning the history of the NBA, watching old players, understanding different areas. 60s is where I stopped trying. 60s is where I'm like, I don't know a fucking thing about the 60s, man. All I'm thinking about in my head right now

is if you rolled out of basketball and you have Bob Kuzzi on one hand on one side and Gary Payton on the other hand, it would be a murder. Like, it would be the worst, it would be the most violent thing you've ever seen in your life. I can't fucking explain how much more athletic Gary Payton is

this is not supposed to be a Bob Coozy slander session right now y'all y'all don't respect your elders I don't have problem with the pick that's fine I'm cool with I had to place him somewhere on this list and he's an all time who's the worst person who would do who would like

cross a Bob Guzzi uh Tyler Ullis awesome awesome reason put him in a fucking blender I don't like I say Tyler Eulis Gay Vincent would have him in Alcatraz Can Pablo Prijioni cross-up Bob Cousy? No, that's him.

No, we're going too far with that one. We're going too far on that. I'm just asking. We're going to wait too far. Tim Fraser? The rest of his tear is running. It's interesting. These names, Westbrook, Nash, Peyton, Kid.

Now we're getting spicy because this is hard. Yeah. Nash and Kid is where I struggled. I hated ranking kid because I feel like if he was an NBA player today, he probably wouldn't be asked Popper because he does a lot of a great, like, niche things that helps elevate teams so people see him for what he is isn't like a high was never

a high ball and three point shooter to develop that shot that was okay throughout the later throughout the back half of his career but when he comes to just like knowing when to make the right play at the right time or also seemingly like not having to just he has so much control

in the game but also not having not like having the ball and his hands at the entire time that's such a rare skill you know and I want to put him higher so bad so bad I might put him higher than Nash to be honest on I think about it because yeah I ended up going once a lot above him the difference there to me is longevity like I said accolades longevity prime you could say Nash is slightly better prime you know he has two MVP's

that's that few weird window he was insane kid prime you could say is close up there but the opposite doesn't have that accomplishment has the ring however you value that in 2011 that's a weird ring to gauge because he was important but he wasn't a star but he has like twice the prime years of nash nash has the weirdest career he didn't become an all-time great until he was 28 and then by the time he was 35 his back was cooked so he has like an eight-year window where he's fucking insane he's Troy young on obviously elevated to the highest degree just incredibly efficient incredibly great passer but before and after that it's not quite to that level

so maybe that can be the deciding factor the two MVP's carry man the two MVP's carry sure That's why I put them higher. That's hard. When you get back to that MVP is tough. That's not easy to do at all. The stolen MVP's. That's tough. In terms of the skill, like being one of the most efficient scores of all time and being

one of the best passers, complimentary passers too, like certain people hunt assists. Westbrook is incredible getting assists. Nash is incredible getting people open. Like it's different, you know? Nash is lucky. He's lucky he has. Oh my gosh. No, I mean, listen, that was one of the hardest debates for me was Nash and kid.

I put Nash up there because I put Nash above Kidd because he had two MVPs. That ended up being like the differentiating factor because it was just too close to call. But yeah, but it was close because Jason Kidd is a better player. Like I'd rather have, I'd rather have Jason Kidd like his playmaking is still elite. Defense. Right. Exactly. And that's the thing.

Jason Kidd was out here being like a legitimate, you know, like, defender and that's just something that Steve Nash could never do and so being able to being able to get both aspects or at least the best aspect of Steve Nash in playmaking and you still have that at an elite level with Jason Kidd neither of them were crazy scores Nash probably should have scored more he should have been more aggressive for his own shot yeah and that was like that's too that's too indenturement but because you don't have that now you allow Jason Kidd and his scoring to be right there with you and then you have the defense that just gets there volume wise i'd rather have jason kidd jason kid is pretty inefficient though for this caliber

player he's routinely average or below average efficiency wise i know nash did a shot more that man picked his fucking spots and he made that shit a lot like being a lower volume score is okay if you're incredibly efficient and you just don't miss like that's fine and if neither one are super high volume nash is i think nash is comfortably the better offensive player because of the shooting makes a huge difference like definitely if kid had an above average three point shot he would be a way way better offensive player he would be amazing

but the defense is probably just as big as the offense there is that stuff I'm looking at the page right now nine time all defensive team that's a lot that's a lot of all defense team nine times crazy dude two time sportsmanship award as well good guy listen I don't think well you really hate Steve Nash bro

I'll think he has that. I'm just reading off what's on basketball reference. I'm just reading the history. That's all I'm doing. Like, Donovan's right. Like I said, you got to respect the accolades. It's a baseline.

I mean, come on. Those are the type of guys you are. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Okay. We can move around my next five, my 16 through 20. At 16, I have Alan Iverson.

At 17, John Stockton. 18, Gary Payton, 19, Sydney Moncrief, 20, Tracy McGrady. You know what's funny? 19 is Moncrief, 20s, Tracy McGrady. These could not be more different.

players if I could possibly imagine different players like they are there are at this rink for the total opposite reason 100% I don't even listen give it give your Sydney moncrew spiel because I do want to hear I want to know why Jason McGrady is at 20 wow yeah okay so look back in my list and name me a name why I have to go name by name because he's again he's a very complicated player in terms of team didn't accomplish jack shit yeah didn't accomplish jack shit but incredibly talented and incredibly accomplished as an individual recognized among the league. So name me a player

that you want to know why I'm higher then because it's kind of a case-to-case basis with him. I completely forgot who was at your, at your 21. Okay, I'll tell you. Thank you. 21, I have Walt Frazier. Okay, that's, obviously, I just think Chase McGready. He's obviously more talented, but Walt's more accomplished.

That's not the interesting. Ray Allen, 23, Damien Lillard. Which, again, it's not hard to understand where McGready is better than them. 24, 20 Parker, 24. Drex, okay, you like Drex. X are a lot. I guess is that the pinpoint? But I guess you can see why McGrady's more talented. No, but for Ray, right? We'll go we'll go for a for somebody who has more

longevity for somebody who has who has who has rings for somebody who has you know all-sars and stuff like that. Why is Ray Allen below Tracy McGrady? So obviously McGrady is carry like I said the three things. Accolades peak longevity. This is the most hard carry by one of those. things and it's the peak right his team wasn't that good so he didn't have the accolades go with it but in his fucking peak he was utterly ridiculous I think

the Paul George comps are funny and I understand that like he's the most talented player didn't do a damn thing he's so talented he's so good that you guys keep mentioning at a certain point you're going towards more talented player I can do the accolade thing all I want and do that sometimes the talent wins out and in

some of these ones like I look at him versus him versus Ray Allen wow six MVP vote four year peak six in MVP fourth an MVP fourth an MVP two second team all MBAs two first team all MBAs as individually accomplished you could hope for literally it just comes down to he didn't fucking win anything and to never be at the first round is is kind of crazy that is crazy that's why and he has zero longevity but like he's as talented as

the top 15 guys he just can't be there because he didn't accomplish a fucking thing and it's insane like I'm probably putting him closer to his ceiling than his floor in his range of whatever outcome is, just because I think the guys immediately below him are also not instantly accomplished. Like, for the reasons you downplayed Ray Allen's ring when I said it matters, you were like, listen, he's on the stacked-ass Celtics.

It matters to a certain extent. Didn't matter enough to make up for the fact that I think after peak Trace and Grady is way better. And individual accomplishments, individual accomplishments, they have the same thing. Like, in terms of MVP's and all NBA's, that was up accolades. McGrady has just as many.

It's just longevity that kicks his ass and playoff success, which it's pretty Well, I get it. I'm not mad at you. You let a rip. You know what this is, right? Let it rip. This is recognizing that a bucket is a bucket.

Like, that's what this is about. That's what this is about. This is looking at somebody who had never got out of the first round, but gets an insane amount of buckets. And you're just like, hey, I'm sorry. He just has to be there. He just has to be there. So I'm telling you. That got to be a new merch line on a bucket is a bucket.

At a certain point, at a certain point, that's what this comes down. to y'all i'm telling you you can do you can do everything you want i never disagreed you can do it anything i never said it means nothing it's case to case to case basis and i compare him to like a lillard who's like right below him or like a ray allen who none of these guys did fucking squat as a first option one of them was on a super team great one of them got hurt really early so it didn't have the longevity sucks from a gradie but like the difference here and the peak was much greater than the difference in that you can have you can have rings you can have all-star appearances You can have all NBA appearance.

You can have all of that, right? You can make conference finals. I need to see you get 30 when it matters, right? I need to be able to say, hey, here's the ball on a high post, two dribbles. What are you going to do? Right? What are you going to do? I have 10 guys right here, fry them all.

That's what I need to see, right? If you want to be an all-time break, fry anybody I put in front of you. That's what this game is about. And I appreciate you. Put a team back right here. because that's not why his saving grace is that his saving grace of why he can be up here and why somebody else who's just about a bucket can't be is seven all-MBAs I think all-MBAs are slept on I don't think all-star games are that indicative of shit really so much there's so

much politics on all-star games especially with some years had fan vote some years didn't especially in the middle of the season exactly all-em-bys you got to be one of the 15 best players for the entirety of a season and those voters aren't typically dumb that typically it was weighed between skill, team success, all that. Like, I think all NBA is a far better, you know, it's a better game for sure, how good you are. He has seven of them and seven All-Star years. Every year he was a top 15 guy.

And obviously, the team success was never there. There's a myriad of reasons why, contextually, some of them were his fault falling apart in big moments. Some of them is Yao Ming's legs can't stay together. Some of them he's coached by Doc Rivers. Like, it's partially his fault, partially not. Individual accolades mattered to me a lot in terms of all NBA teams, MVP votes, and he has enough.

to hold them up there with the skill. I can understand that, but not getting past the first challenge is like another, like, that is a massive gaping hole. I agree. But if he did, if he did have a conference final run, he would be above,

he'd be in the 15 range, like to be much higher. I'm baking that in. I ain't lying. He would definitely be 15 around that range for sure. Because we say he didn't have the run, obviously injuries cut him short. Seven all NBA areas is a good amount of run.

That's still a good long peak. A lot of guys don't have that, even when they say healthy. So he got robbed of potentially having an elongated, really good prime. He got enough years in that I can say he's, he's not David Thompson. He wasn't a four year than nothing guy. Like he, seven years is a long time. You can never catch a hating on TMAC.

Even though I had him at what, 29 or 30 or whatever? Yeah. And Sidney Moncrief is the opposite. City Moncrief is a two-way fucking force. Sidney Moncrief has two DP OIs and two second-place finishes in a four-year span. What the fuck? You need Drew Holiday. What the fuck?

What if Drew Hall is. holiday averaged for era adjusted what if drew all day average basically 24 points per game today with the efficiency of nikola yokic city moncrieff had like a 62% true shooting back in that day league average like 55 7% higher than league average is like what yokech does now on 20 points your game i mean that efficient just a downhill force didn't have the jump shot wasn't a great passer so that's why he's not like one of the best players of all time but just downhill demon and the best point guard defender you're gonna find in the league for his era he's eric Bledso to the 9,000th degree

Yes, this is a This is a pickup hooper Like just monster where you're not He pulls his shorts up exactly Like you're just out there on the park playing for eight hours Just just elite two-way right like that's That's what he is and it makes it makes sense though Yeah

And he had three conference finals runs Three two DPO wise is the differentiating factor You know that's a guard Yeah that moves a lot And the efficiency is insane for having no jump shot at all, really, and being that otherworldly efficient, for that era, if you can't shoot and you're just going down the rim, those guys are just standing there, and it just doesn't matter.

And he's not big either. He's six foot four, and he's like kind of a frail frame. Like, he's not a large guy, and he's just flying through the air, getting to the rim every single time down the court. That's a perfect formula for the age he played in. There's a reason he was in three conference finals. I like that.

I like that. The opposite of team backman. Log down in the bucket. Quality player. Yeah, quality. Exactly. Bro, he stops buckets and he gets buckets. One-on-one, he's better than you.

I'm sorry. There's not a lot of better arguments. Hey, no, right above him? Exactly. It's an evolved version of him. Gary Payton is Moncrief, but if Moncrief made a finals, so I had to give him the ledge because he made a finals. Not a make a complete.

Same guy. A little bit less of a score, a little bit more of a defender. I like that. How do you guys about Stockton and Iverson? Stockton is so weird to me, man. I understand why Stockton is this high, but it's also disrespectful

because he shouldn't be this close to Alan Iverson. Oh, you know. What do you mean, but I don't... Yeah, no, I know, I know you're a hater, but it's okay. I have the same spot as you, motherfucker. What are you talking about? No, but you're doing that out of just like,

all right, here, take it. Like, you don't be. You know, you didn't want to put him at 16. After all I've said about Pete Marevich, Clyde Drexler, and Reggie Miller, you think I'm not willing to hate on some old people today? You think I want hate on an inefficient guard? I would.

He's there because he deserves it. Don't act like we ever had conversations about Iverson before. I know how you feel. And we net out to me being 16 still. You just, there, run. But listen, I am no fan of John Stockton, but I made an effort this time to reward accomplishments and I have to give it to him

obviously his resume is ridiculous I have to salute out of obligation of consistency good job I don't like any word you do you know how to throw an entry pass like 20 25,000 hey listen listen listen wait wait don't knock the entry pack people can't do that

these people can't do that these things but yes the entry pass is no and he is we make fun of him because his assists we're so inflated by uh system nasty man yeah yeah and that's true he could score he wasn't a slouch there he was a great shooter he was a great shooter super efficient and he

knew how to pick his spots yeah later in his career he got really efficient as a three-point shooter and he could get to the rim he was one of those guys that was like sneakily quick and he got to the rim he's able to get to the paint really easily really generate offense yeah he was a super athletic but he's more athletic than people think he is more athletic than people think he's real smart and just plays the game the right way he's good on the whiteboard culture guy the hardest part the hardest part is he has five all defensive teams which is very impressive but I think his all defensive teams are like cobies where they're strictly reputation base because he got a lot of steals i don't really believe that john stockton was his lockdown defender five times but i mean something dude step curry gets a lot of steals too like that doesn't mean well not like stocking stocking is he's all time i know i understand he's up there like all time leaderboard and stuff like that too but is this like when i see the defensive one yeah i understand but yeah you're i mean i have have him lowered than his accomplishment suggests to.

No, 17 is, you guys disrespect the shit out of him and I get it. I think I still have him on the low end for what he's accomplished because I just don't think he's as good as a guy's above him. You got it. As long as I ever said above him. Yeah, he's just not as talented and I just don't want him on my team. But he's not, okay, I don't want him on my team for personal reasons. So I'm with you.

But he is talented. We don't got to get into what's wrong with modern day John Stockton. this is a different type of podcast let's just say uh never mind just keep going no words he just said there Roll it!

I'm giving enough smoke to John Isaac Ah man dude Go on Draghi retired from basketball yesterday I would have him on my team over with John Stocker easily The dragon You're fucking crowd eater man Easily you're throwing through

Two Did you see witness sons Goren Drogic Man tell us you're 11 through 15 Different bro It better not have

Goran Drogic Different All right So at 11 I have Luca Dantz 12 George Gervin

13 Alan Iverson 14 Clyde Drexler Redact I would move from down for sure

And 15 I have Lur I respect you being convinced to move Drexler down I love the admission but okay it was so weird for me to put Luca Doncha to this high

but then I sat down and internalized like how like that he's been since the second year of his career putting up like 28, 9 and 8 or whatever it's been like on a consistent basis being first team all NBA since we were like 20 21 years old or whatever

that's crazy work I keep talking about how all NBA teams are slept on in terms of accomplishments and how a lot of guys don't have as many as you think Steph only has a few first team all NBA's he has a lot of second teams Luca has had five years of superstardom five years of first team all NBA six years in the league five first team all NBA

only times we've seen a start to a career that great is like Jordan LeBron Kareem like that is insanely rare yeah he has a combination of like obviously being one of the best point blank period like dudes on the court but also like remaining healthy consistently as well while being given that opportunity in the runway to

do what he's done so I don't I'm not mad at putting him 11 because he made a finals. Yeah. When you have that starts with a career, you make a conference finals, and then you make a finals, literally it's just longevity. If his career ended and he had this resume of a finals, five first team L NBAs, and one of the best statistical peaks you've ever seen. That's Sidney Moncrief.

After Danmerer triple double. If Sidney Moncrief was a bucket, or more of a bucket. It's the opposite end, yeah. And the best passer in the league. If Sidney Monkrie was the best passer in the league, it'd be ridiculous. Like, again, the only thing holding him back from being top seven his longevity so I'm I'm cool with that absolutely any other grease I respect the George gervyn love I'm glad I'm glad he was respected on this list I was I had a fear that I would

put him much higher than you guys and I had to fucking talk about how people don't know George gervyn no hyper efficient dude he was he was that dude for his time do me and don't I completely switch rolls today this is crazy really I'm just hating talking about George gervor was a bucket it's the most I've ever hated on an episode good doesn't it's therapeutic sometimes oh headphone fell up what uh I think it feels strange I feel uncomfortable

I said my headphone fell out I thought you're pan yourself not like you got a fly on you or something I was like what's going on my ear my ear let's move on the next tier let's see who else we got also Lillard is crazy high but I'm not going to slander him so you can have it

Lillard got to be that high he doesn't have to be that high what he doesn't have to be but interesting okay so I'm assuming I'm assuming I'm my list I have Jason Kid 11 Steve Nash 12

George Gervyn 13 Luca Donchurch 14 Russell Westbrook 15 Now Donovan you mentioned that I don't particularly like Alan Arverson compared to other people and you said you probably said I had to throw it to him to put him at 16 I didn't put it away I like Alan Arverson more than you think

I had to give Russell Westbrook 15 at a fucking obligation Hater Hater He just I just had to do it Why we I This is what this is what this is what i hate this is really what i hate and now mind you for for full transparency

i have russell westbrook at the same exact spot but the way it's such a fucking no no no no but the tone in which you're speaking about russell is really upsetting and there is something about like right it was on purpose it was on purpose yeah but the way that it's the way that we get here because like obviously russell westbrook really like post huge huge Houston has just been like stats merchant to the absolute extreme, right? But listen, drag the team of Washington to the playoffs. Shout out to him. That was actually, it was actually impressive to see that.

The, the Lakers stand, probably one of the five worst stints by a known basketball player that we've ever seen. Probably the worst. Not going to lie. There's a consequence. It's been really bad. It's been really bad. But I don't like the way.

that we talk about Russ throughout his like okay C days and even in like that that quick Houston time because everyone's like oh like you know they didn't win because of us and his play style was so was so um you know like non winning basketball towards the end of that run and really like 2016 you started to see Russell Westbrook put everything together and it wasn't it wasn't as erratic as it was earlier and nice had 20 year old puts it together we love it had Kate no but like had kd not stayed i mean not left you you could have seen uh more evolution from that team and you could have seen them there but also like even even in 2016 you can go ahead and blame it on russ and be like oh yeah he was never a winning player kd also was out here choking

in the last three games going 10 of 31 like i don't i just don't like the narrative that all of it in 2015 and 2016 was all on russ because he's the one not doing it like i i i feel i feel like at least from what I have seen from a lot of people whenever we're starting to talk about like the later okayc years it's like oh yeah like you know Russ wasn't a winning player when he is all NBA he is one of you know the two he's it's curry and him as as the two point guards in in the league CP3 whatever but like either way top three is in yeah yeah yeah but I know your point I open this with disrespect just to fuck with you just to trigger you I don't I put him a 15 for a reason end of the day I'm with you I think for what you just said about his okayc years I agree and

disagree. 2015 through 2017 were his best years. 2015 was better than 2017. He just, 2017, he had all the leeway in the world and obviously the storyline to get the MVP. 2015 and 16 were his best years, I think. The athleticism was still really there, and he, the playmaking was as good as ever been. He was really together. Defensively, he was still pretty good.

That fell off later. 2018 and 2019, those last two OKC years were awful. Those, I think, were worse than people remember. We forget just how sad he went out against When he was with PG in the playoffs against Dame Dame had that man in a mental straight jacket That was when his jump shot really was like completely killed And he just could not shoot and he kept trying

So much of his game He's like such a boom and bust guy Where his strengths are so unbelievably strong obviously We know we can get to the rim His athleticness is ridiculous Great passer when he's young He was a good defender, good defensive playmaker The rebounding for whatever that's worth to you

Very impressive skills Do you hate the narrative of not leading to winning? Part of it is true to the extent we can debate on how much isn't his fault, how much is, how much he does impact people, how much he doesn't. To an extent, he gets slander too much in some regards for that three-year peak is really good, which is why he's above Alan Iverson for me. Because I think that three-year peak is legit.

And him and Alan Iverson, who I have at 16, have basically the same accolades, honestly. They both have an MVP. They both made a finals, even though Alan Iverson did as one option. They both don't have that much longevity. There's similar lengths of longevity there. I just think Westbrook has a more all-around. game, which to me matters, better passer, better defender in their primes. Actually, defender's close.

But you know what I mean? It's just he can't be higher because if you replaced, you said that he's a top three point guard. If you replace Chris Paul with Russell Westbrook on those teams, they win the fucking finals easily, him, KD, and Hardin. Some stars are better play next to

other stars, and that matters at the highest level. You got to be scalable next to other guys and you're not going to have to be the best guy. And that's this downfall compared to other stars. And that's, that's fair. And that's also why I had him at 15. It's more so the specific situation that he was in with him and Kevin Durant. Yeah, you may not be able to play with everybody, but you can play with him.

And you guys were extremely successful. Like they were going to four, they went to like four conference finals in six years. Like they were knocking on the door. And at that point, it gets to KD, not coming through Westbrook, not coming through all that stuff. Right. Also, Scott Brooks would be not the greatest coach in the world. Andre Roe There were a lot of problems with OKC

But they still had opportunities to go out And get to get back to the finals and win there I just It bothers me a little bit Whenever we look back at Russ And now we kind of You look at it with the glasses of Oh well look at what happened in Houston

Look what happened in in L.A That's kind of the whole thing And I just don't rock with that I understand that But I do but I do but I do though that there is like there's a certain part of Russ where you love them and you hate him and I specifically remember there's like there's like a shot against I can't remember exactly what year I think it was 2014 where they're in a closeout game against the spurs and it's right

at the end and you need like a good shot and Russ takes this like fading three on the on the right wing and it hits like the side of the backboard I remember watching it with my dad and both of us just put our hands up like Russ no like there's definitely moments like that so I don't want to act like he's just like this you know the highest IQ player but there is a certain level of respect that I don't think that he necessarily gets in terms of how good he was I think it works both ways one yes people hate him because he sucked later in his career and they forget about the good parts but also I think we just learned certain things about his game as a career went on that made us think back to those younger years and realize those problems were still there we just didn't

quite understand him and certain elements of stars playing together to the same extent were at the time he wasn't a problem with him and kd they were one the arguably the best duo in the league at a certain point but now you can look back like oh if they did have chris paul instead we see what the difference would have been you know now that we know so much about russing with so many other star comparisons chris paul would have been hurt now what probably yeah like yeah everybody has has their issues so we just know so much now about fit that younger people didn't quite understand like 2014, 2015, that people just like learn more over time and look back at Westbrook. I'm like, oh, okay, so certain things that have happened differently if he had a

better fit. And the problem is that you can say a lot of guys and be like, imagine him here and he fit better. Not a lot of ways you can imagine Westbrook fitting with other stars and being like, oh, that would be better. He was playing with the perfect player to put on. Yeah, honestly. Honestly, he's already with the perfect guy. Match up anyone else other than Katie. I 100% agree. Some of that's like more interesting to me, seeing how much higher you have kid over Westbrook when I think naturally we can all agree like Russell Westbrook is just in general the better individual player no we can't I don't agree how is he not the better individual player everything I just said there's the tax of rest no I mean like

there's there's there's there's that that aspect of it where you said earlier when you talk about jason kid you know that he's always going to make the right play you know that jason kid is able to control a game even if he doesn't have like these crazy counting counting stats and you know he always has he always has the ability to to again take control over over the pace of a game where rush he can get 30 10 he knows a one pace yeah he he can he can get 30 10 and 10 jason kid can leave the game with 17 9 and 7 and you'll be like wow he played the best game out of anybody like He was involved in everything. That's fair.

Westbrook is a better volume score. He's better at getting to 30 more often. But that's not always what leads to high-level offense. And I think throughout the course of their career, Kid consistently led higher offensive ratings, consistently led better teams as the engine of the offense. Obviously, kids are a much better defender. I understand Russ has a good defensive reputation

from when he was young. Kid is far more fundamental, more consistent of defender throughout his entire career. Passing, even though Russ is a very good passer, kid's a better passer. It's just scoring volume that Russ has and that isn't necessarily meaning more valuable score even yeah especially when we start talking about like traditional point guard roles like oh yeah and only years

yeah and only years he has that is when he's alone and it leads to nothing to split six seeds when he's playing with other guys his scoring volume isn't even that much higher and it's still less efficient they had that man playing with canter it's a bonus oh oh yeah you said a great year and again that's why he's high because it's a very well respectable year a great peak talented player but yeah if you want to win

a championship I think it's a no brainer to pick kid Nash Gervin and Don Chitch above him yes but like you said earlier like

this isn't only about like you know wanting to win a championship it's totality too Westbrook has what like nine or 10 all MBAs to his name of course we all remember

the MVP all stars but I could like lay it on he has the accolades and when I see Westbrook I think of like history alongside of now of course

that comes with like also talking about Westwood as like the most polarizing superstar in over the last like 10 15 years or whatever but when I think of Jason kid too I think of like I think of more him as a as the player than like how he's left his mark in the NBA history it's about I think that might because we watched one and not the other I think Jason kid is just as historical as Westbrook it just wasn't our era historical historical different ways historical I mean Jason kid is leading the historical ways is we saw 2017 that's the biggest historical thing is we saw 2017 we didn't see

2002 when kid made the finals we didn't see 2002 that's just a historic I'm talking about like breaking records and shit like that like kid doesn't have that onto his resume at all you know I sure triple doubles great again that's a nice nod but that doesn't

necessarily inherently make it more valuable like he has these cool narratives of historicalness I agree I see what you're getting at but it doesn't make him better he has three more all NBA teams which is something you know that's tangible six to nine nine time all defense though makes up for it to me obviously being the better player he has the ring however much you feel for that he led a team to the finals as a one

option it's close enough to me yeah it's close enough that i have no problem going the better player does he have an MVP i don't think he has an MVP no no he doesn't have no he doesn't yeah no hell no he doesn't if you had one that okay then i'll fully lean on um kid but but A callback Two sportsmanship awards Two of them There we go again God damn bro

Go to hell Let's look at Donvins At 11 I have Nash At 12 I have kid 13 I have Luca 14 I have George Gervin At 15 I have Westbrook

I love I love we all have George Gervin here So Yeah nobody's sold on George Gervyn Listen we understand How good George Gervin is Right We do

We under It's the theme of the day we understand that the game is about getting buckets and George Gervin is one of the one of the greatest bucket getters right everybody listen you talk about all all these fancy lays all the all the jelly that's George Gervyn's bag right he's the reason why you guys are doing all this stuff right that's George Gervin understand understand his influence understand the silky smoothness to his game he's just like that he's just like that a lot There's a lot of guys who would just score first, like a T-MAC and doesn't always lead to winning.

That's why T-Mack is lower than George Gervin, right? There's other guys in history that, like I said, they're about a bucket. They can do their thing. George Gervin was such a great score for the era. It just led to winning at the highest level. It led to elite offense because that's what the era called for because you couldn't have as much ball movement. Passing wasn't quite as important as is now with the era spacing and skip passes and stuff. He had five straight years of first team all NBA, just like Luca.

In his first seven years in the NBA after the NBA NBA-A-A-M-B-A merger, MVP ballot every single year first team all NBA every single year He had a 59% true shooting Which is 6% higher than average back then Outrageously efficient despite not being able to issue jumper Like Sidney Moncrief And the difference between why he's hired

Another bucket getters From 78 to 80 which is the best three years The Spurs were second, third and third in offensive rating Just some of the best offenses in the NBA Despite being led by just a pure score That's not normal That's incredible

The only reason you don't think about him in history is because the Showtime Lakers beat the fuck out of him in the conference finals every time. They beat his ass twice. He made the game seven against the bullets when they were in the east that first time he made the conference finals but then he got his fucking back blown out

by magic and cream twice. And at that point what can you do about it, brother? Like that's what you have to look at the nuanced things and just be like, yeah, bro, like you put anybody there in the same thing what happened, your back's getting blown over. I guess the 82 Lakers, he's getting clapped,

like I'm sorry, but he was incredible. done in the worst way done in the absolute worst way so it's like yeah what my god but he's he's I think he might be the most underrated guard he might is he the most underrated guard of all time he's one of them that's funny yeah we'll put him in top five for sure we get in there Tim and Sydney Moncrief top five yeah it's got to be that probably the most too underrated on this list that's Tony Parker all right all right all right let's roll in let's roll up what's so funny i love when we do a rank rankings and i get fortunate to a corner that i don't give a fuck about i've never once defended tony parker

a day of my life but now i have to let's tap into the comments i'm gonna remember me they're gonna remember me as being so pro tony parker when if you look at like episode 85 or something there's probably me slandering tony parker yeah it's a life lead who's next top 10 me please on to the top 10 oh i'm up first let's get spicy At six, I have Jerry West, seven Dwayne Wade, eight Isaiah Thomas, nine James Hardin, 10, Chris Paul. This is pretty hard to rank. I don't, I'm confident that Jerry West has to be the top. After that, you can convince me of any order.

And literally any order. 7 through 10, Wade, Thomas, Hardin, Paul. I'm okay with literally any order. Huh. So who do you like the most? Pick them, they can go to seven. Okay. I mean, I don't hate

Actually, no, no, my, Chris Paul can't be seven I change that, take the back. Wade Thomas and Harding can be seven. Never mind, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, sorry, Thomas, I lied. Now that I look at it, it crystallizes, Harding can't be above Wade,

so it's a waiter Thomas at seven. That's the tier. It's a pretty good list. I don't hate this. I don't have any real qualms about this. Yeah. Cool, okay. Ironically, yeah, I'm sorry.

I have the same exact list. I really don't have anything to say. I think I'm pretty lockstep Who's next? Okay, let's reveal everybody else Is 6 through 10 Mo's the same as me Don, what do you got different?

I have Big O at 7 I have Wade at 8 I have Hardin at 9 Chris Paul at 10 Jerry West at 6 Okay I said that completely I said that completely out of order

But I'm sorry You did but it's fine You said the numbers Audio listeners, tough Come watch the YouTube video I'm sorry So six Jerry West, seven Oscar Robertson,

eight, Dwayne Wade, nine, hard, and ten. I like that we all agree on Paul and Hardin being ninth and tenth. It just feels right. Yeah, we all know, even though how, even though the media really, really hates hard and all the choking that he's done over the last, I don't know, seven years of his, eight years of

his career, we have to sit back as grown adults and realize this dude has almost never been really favored in any of the matchups that he's went up against in the playoffs. Every single team that he's lost to, he was supposed to lose to he did not have the better team didn't have the better roster and all that you know i love how Vegas i'm sorry i love how Vegas just cues our our stuff and so like even even if

somebody's favorite like like it's not just you know like two just really really good good NBA teams you know and it's like oh well he was supposed to lose like yeah but at the same time you can still play it out betting is a plague you don't say like you can still play it out and even if the underdog won it shouldn't even be a shock like that but you were supposed to lose, supposed to win like I guess. At the day it is cope

but the reason James Hardin isn't a top five guard or isn't in the conversations is because the best players of all time find a way to win when they're not favored and he couldn't do that so he's just outside

of the best players of all time which is fine. Honestly he's kind of like the 90s guys who just ran into the bussaw of the Bulls he ran into the bus saw of the Warriors that will define his legacy is he could not beat the Warriors he got as close as anybody did

in the West couldn't do it end the day and his prime years were wasted on that because the Warriors were so unfuck with the bull and then once they went away, so did his hamstrings. So he almost got it in 2021. If his hamstring didn't fall at the bone, I think he would have got the championship, which would have changed

everything because he was still a demon in that year. He was 27 and 10 every night but he's just misfortune, right? Sometimes it doesn't happen. It's tough scene exactly. And I think this range right here just has to fall in line with like luck for the most part too. Yeah, he's right behind the guys who it did happen

for them. IT did get a championships. He lead offense to the highest level for his era. I don't think he's individually talented as hard as him, but he got it done. Obviously, Jerry West got his one. The greatest loser of all time, honestly, he's hardened to even better degree because he made a bunch of finals. But he got one destroyed by the, yeah, exactly. He's honestly the same thing.

He kept running into the bussaw team, but finally he got one. He got one. And then Wade is just, Wade has multiple rings. And Wade is also incredible peak. It's hard to give, harden that nod when Wade got it done as a first option in 2006 in a very impressive fashion. If Hardin had one of those runs at any point in his career, then he could be talking top to you, he would be top six.

Literally, if, if KD tore his Achilles a year prior instead, and he got gifted the ring instead of Kauai, not say gifted, that's disrespectful, but if he had the right opportunity to get the ring instead of Kauai, it would change everything. Like, that's the difference in NBA history is which year did you get, who got lucky with injury luck and who didn't, when the best teams in the league are all healthy? I agree. I agree. And he got unlucky because Chris Paul fell apart

So really Chris Paul fucked him That's the thing with Chris Paul I wish I could put him higher I told you I told you So I saw Chris Paul out for Russ What happens? Hamstring He'd fuck KD

It's over At least you can live with that Rather than seeing Russell Westberg do Nevermind I actually know I would actually I would actually rather A bad performance rather than live with like the what if For the rest of

Because like if If Chris, like, if Chris Paul doesn't, doesn't get hurt, that series is, it is different. Like, it just plays out differently. And so I'd rather, the Rockets probably win. Like, they probably straight up win. Yeah. And so I'd rather, I'd rather, like, have the situation play out and be like, I guess that's what happened rather than, ah, like, you know, coulda should have, would have. I was just throwing a cheap shot as you to see if you'd react.

I know. I agree. Exactly. But okay. I guess this is a pretty lockstep tier. You have lost in Robinson lower. I'm guessing you have IT higher. because you fucking love the Pistons.

I want to argue you down. We argued you down in episode 50 with all-time rankings about IT. I don't have the energy again. You love him more than I hate him, so you're going to win. Surprise, surprise. Let's move on to the top five.

I'm going to respect greatness to him. I'm up first. Oh, I'm up first. One, I have Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Two, Urban Magic Johnson. Three, Kobe Bean, Bryant. Four, Wardell, Seth, Curry. five Oscar Robertson

I think most I wish Andy Watson Roberts is a middle name Okay this is so interesting to me immediately Because you have Kobe over Curry in a couple weeks ago When we did our episode 100 special I believe you were with me When it came

When it came to having a debate against Pierre From numbers on the board Having Curry over Kobe Interesting for sure flip sides And I can understand it Yeah again I still think of that again three accolades, longevity, three-year peak. I think three-year peak,

Kobe's, Curry is better than Kobe. I find that to be a very easy argument for me that Pete Curry is top three offensive player of all time, led the best team of all time, and is a top three player I probably want on my team in terms of leading good offense, helping everybody around him. He's almost besides LeBron and Jordan,

he might be the surest thing to having a good team if you pick Pete Curry. So I'd rather have him than Kobe. But the other two parts of that equation, longevity and accolades you gotta give to Kobe he has fucking five rings they both got rings off of a super team

essentially even though Kobe and Shaq was less of a super team was more super duo so those are a little bit more impressive to me than the Katie Warrior rings yeah and he got two

in the second act and Curry only got one he has more all NBA teams more all defense teams because Curry has zero obviously more all stars longer longevity

he just his resume puts him just above Curry because they're close enough in terms of quality of player I might think Curry is a little bit better but I understand that that's very subjective.

For me, that singular ring that Curry won back in 2022 weighs more than Kobe's other ring that he won post-shack. And that's again because you watch one and not the other. That team was. That team was generally ass.

That was a good team. It looks ass because afterwards they got assed. But they caught lighting in a bottle. Wiggins was good. Porter was good. They got something that of clay. Draymon was good.

That wasn't a terrible team. You're so disrespectful. They just immediately got terrible. after that. Definitely not. Wiggins was just he committed fraud basically.

Wiggins had a Cinderella run. It is what it is. He had his insanity run and they got a championship about it and good for them. Sometimes you strike lightning

in a bottle. It's not repeatable. Tough scene, man. But. So do you have Curry above Kobe? Yeah, I actually did. I believe I'm number two.

Okay. That's one of my list. So at number one, I am, whoa, there we go. So number one, Jordan, number two, curry, three, magic, four, Kobe, and five. Oscar Robinson, one of the greatest. Okay.

Curry above magic is a choice. Absolutely. I'm sensing, I'm smelling some crayons around in the air and a aroma. No crayons, no, no crayons, no crayons, be back in reality, be back in recovery. Okay, go ahead and explain. Okay. So when I sit down and think about the curry. versus magic conversation that's been happening

over the last few years. I see magic. I see the 6-9 demon who obviously does it all outside of shooting when it comes to offense and, you know, defense is not really in his calling card. Neither is it for Steph Curry. They both dominate in completely different ways,

but they give you like the same type of just like all-time production and like value. Magic paid like an entirely different way for people and also like So, so did Steph Curry. But when I sit down and think about how it's, how it gets done for Curry, I'd rather, I prefer not only like building my team around something like that.

But I also think it's just harder to go ahead and do what Curry does on a consistent basis. And I think his, he just, like, attracts so much more because of the spacing. It's all that. And it's hard to value that, you know? I think what that is to me, I think that's. you're going to view the game through a modern landscape. And when you say you'd rather have the way Curry does it, because it's a modern game better and it's hard to divorce.

I see some like Magic Johnson Day and like LeBron James and like back a couple years going Ben Simmons. And I see how dominant that is, of course. Okay. I'm not going to even kind of. Yeah. I know what you mean. But for their era,

they're bulls like the peak of what you want. The way that Matt, that Curry completely revolutionized the game with three point shooting and building around that with awful gravity that brings and everything, magic also did that with how they. empowered him to push the pace and uses passing and set people up. That was something the league had never seen before. Exactly.

They've seen high level passing. I mean, high level fast paceness, but the combination of things was equally as revolutionary for the time and equally as effective for the time. We're in different era now. We're shooting matters more, partially because of his influence. But I don't think that, like, magic gets to that level of impact for the time as well. For sure, I can't disregard that. Without

someone like magic that's tall, this trend that's been that people have been trying to like replicate of just big guys doing things that Samar guys should be able to do thrive at like it starts with him and it ends with him and stuff like that curry is by far the best shooter of all time

make it clear magic is by far the best password of all time like his his jump there it's like just as wide I actually saw a tweet about like last week for the reason I know this his playoff splits of playoff series his assists are utterly ridiculous

he has playoff runs like every series was like 14 15 assists per game he elevated as a passer in the same way some who elevates the score like trust his level of passing is by far the greatest of all time i can't speak on his past or how i can't speak on like gap like that because i haven't watched him in a while probably been over a year since i generally watched magic johnson in the finals last time i watched it was when we were fucking recording episode 50 so it's been literally a little bit over a year. So I can't talk about the gap just like that. But if it is like how you're saying it in terms of like if you're originally like his gap as his gap when it comes to his

passing is this is wide of the gap when it comes to Steph Curry's shooting. Then you got it there. You got it there. Yeah. And then I get it. It's going to be close. If Curry continues to to have a longer run and has more longevity, which I think he will, it'll be a close to bait forever. So I don't mean to say that it's crazy to put Curry above. It feels crazy right now. But but in 10 years people have this debate, I don't think it'll be viewed as crazy at all. Okay. So you're ahead of your time. There you go.

I'm ahead of my time. Donovan, who's your top five? Let's show it. Jordan at one, magic at two, Kobe at three, step up four, and then Isaiah Thomas at five. All right. Get your nut off. Love it. What?

Get it off. We know you've been when to talk about it. I mean, listen, I think that the bad boy pissons are some of the most, um, underrated, underappreciated teams in NBA history. I think Isaiah Thomas is a 20 and 10 guy. I think Isaiah Thomas, when you talk about point guards who are able to be the best on their team, there's a very small list, right? It's like Isaiah Thomas, it's Steph Curry, it's Magic Johnson, in terms of getting

their team there and winning it. Scoring-wise, that team was very much by a committee, but Isaiah Thomas was the head of that snake and I think for him like his playmaking and his scoring ability like he's had years earlier in his career right in the playoffs and even in the regular season where his scoring was really high they were getting stomped out but hey they ran into the butt they ran into the bus saw but yeah be like that exactly but you see that whenever it comes time for the pistons to start like stepping into their destiny I say Thomas is is leading it and I just think like watching him and watching everything that the Pistons were able to

accomplish and watching the way that he was able to really imprint his impact on the game I watch him and it's literally just eye test for me whenever I watch Isaiah Thomas I just I can't take my eyes off of him I think he plays amazing sure I mean I haven't taken seven wow what a yeah that's fine I mean it's like a mini tier yeah I love Isaiah Thomas yeah I think I think one through four

obviously one Jordan's Jordan he's own tier two through four Magic Kobe Curry is a tier for me and then five through seven Roberson West Isaiah Thomas like that that's another little mini tier you want to put weight in that tier or no

no oh yeah way too yeah I forgot of Wade Wade yeah Wade belongs in that tier yeah I have Wade one spot above Isaiah Thomas oh I do too but damn I just I think five is kind of like its own tier in its own just Oscar Robertson just him yeah just Oscar Robertson because you can't first off back in the day of course but also like when it comes to his

run and how consistent he was able to just like do what he did when he could and have like such trash teammates and elevate to like his utmost capability I just can't I just can't again I'll say like I said earlier I don't know a fucking thing about the 60s I won't pretend I do I'm just respecting greatness and I know he was utterly dominant for the time I'm straight salute

I will not pretend I will never pretend to know anything about the 1960s but never hear it for me it's fair and that's the end of our list I think it was a good one I love the good debates

I think yeah only one only thing I would change is like I said I'll flip Clyde Drexer and Tony Parker y'all got that other than that I'm happy on my list I'm putting Gary Payton higher on my list

let's go yeah I think I'll definitely lower cry Drexel on my list for sure And there we go, man. I think now it's time once again for producer Corning. Nicholas, how are we doing? What? I'm good, man.

Yeah, he called me Nicholas sometimes. Don't do that to his name. Am I bad? I didn't know why wash him? All right. This is fucking on my intro. I thought it actually intro. I thought it'd actually intro producer corner because it's an all-time episode.

I feel like there's going to be a lot of new viewers. basically they just give me like 15 minutes every week to vibe 15 don't don't push it sometimes it's 20 you know there's no agenda we talk about the most random stuff like last week we saw isa baby pictures one time we tier listed fried chicken and you know another time we talked about spear airlines

why it's overhated stuff like that so there's honestly it can go in any direction that I wanted to and so that's what producer corner is and so welcome to producer corner so this week it's more yappy and it's more it's more topic driven it's not like gaming but I wanted

to ask you guys what you think is like the most what do you think is like the greatest or like most convenient modern luxury to you and so what I mean by that is like oh 100% it's air conditioning it's not even well let me let me give some example

because air conditioning freezers No, so I mean some like Uber or like Amazon Prime Airbnb I was going to say freezers We used to have the salt meats back in the day To keep them healthy Freezers change the game You don't understand curing Birds and Limes

Fethy Prasuto came out of the cow looking like that We didn't do that for a reason Actually prosciutto's pork It can be anything like You know ticket master or like FaceTime stuff like that Ticket Masters Oh it's not ticket master Fuck Ticket Masters

Well, I'm just, I'm talking about these general concepts. And so why don't think about that, I'll go first. Go ahead. Honestly, I think mine is probably a right share. In terms of, like, convenience, I don't think, I think it's honestly a little, I don't think people think about how actually, like, how nice it actually is. Am I right share? You mean, like, Uber?

Yeah. Oh, like, you can, like, travel, like, pretty much anywhere, like, any country to. You don't need to speak the language. You don't need to, like, worry about, like, how to pay. pay you just like call an uber yeah and they just come to your exact location like there's no like oh i'm on like this street and this street they just come exactly where you are okay that's fair and like you don't you don't need to worry about like renting a car that's a good that's a good pick yeah that is whenever i'm in a city at least when i'm in a city i never once worry about planning

travel i'm just like they'll come to me whenever i want yeah even as far like 20 years ago you can do that you had to like be in the area where there's taxis take a bus to where there's taxis get on subway if you're in a big city like that like it was definitely you got a plan on the same note i'm gonna go gps apps like on the phone when i was a little kid that's a good even even when in my lifetime i'm not that old we used to have back with gps first round the fucking tom-toms that you put on the car which is like a gps like tablet almost on your thing they don't know about that yeah that was right that happened when i was a kid that like 2005 tom-toms came out before that you had to get fucking maps yeah i'm about to driving i'm in l-a

Imagine driving to San Francisco and I got a fucking map. Like that would suck. It gets outdated instantly. Like there's no traffic information, like the highways change. Yeah. And even like locally, I don't know, like, any time I want to go anywhere, I kind of know, like, if I need to go to Westwood and go to a restaurant, I kind of know how to get there ish.

I don't think about it at all. I just type it in my phone and follow the directions. Like there's zero thought that has to go into it. There's no wasted information up here about directions. Dude, back in the day, my dad used to print out stacks of paper every time we went out to like go see a relative or whatever. It used to be crazy. Yeah.

You got to do that shit for Olive Garden. Like, everywhere. Yeah. You need something. Hey, man, that was the spot. You know, you have to roll out the red carpet for Olive Garden. Does it mean something? Does, I don't know.

There's like, I guess for me, does that put music count? Does, like, streaming, like, music streaming count? Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah. I mean, for me, like, now, we don't have to talk about what it's done to the industry. But, like, but like, we ruin the careers of musicians. Exactly. But it's nice for us.

But for me, personally. inconvenience for me personally like all of these like albums that I have like behind me it's crazy that you used to have to go and pay $12 for one where now I can pay $12 and I have every song that's ever been created by every artist and it's just like right there my finger to if I can listen to it at anytime like I remember my aunt having the CD book and you would go and like you have your mix And it's like, listen, whatever you're listening to, and I still kind of listen to music like that where I'll play an album and I'll just like listen to it kind of through

or I have like an artist and I kind of, you know, just press play on that. But whatever was on that CD, you're going to listen to it. And it's just going to be in rotation for a while. It's not like the lengths that you had to go to, to create this like perfectly curated playlist was so, it just took too much time where you can just make it instantly. Dude, the first year I got an. music. I kind of had like a music taste awakening like sixth grade. I was buying CDs that

year. Like that was before alpha music and shit. That's like 2011. I was out here by Eminem recovery and the adventures of B.O.B. And shit at Target. That was in our lifetime. I was like her fucking buying CDs. I would never buy a CD today. I can't believe people used to buy individual songs on like iTunes. Yeah. Like like I remember I did that I did that as I bought ringtones. I did that as oh my God. And it's and it's wild because like you buy voicemails. bro like now like every everything that i every physical piece or not every physical but like 95 percent of the physical music that i have i'm buying it because i've heard the album before and like that and like that album like mean something to me i just like want to have the physical of it to

have to go and buy whatever it whatever physical it was and just like hope that it was good music is crazy yeah it's why like you're taking it you're taking a gamble and you're really just buying stuff because you're like i like this artist their last one was good i don't know what they're going to do now but here's my $12 and literally for the love of the game yeah and dude really you can put it in it could be the worst album you've imagine imagine imagine imagine imagine paying $12 for chance to rapper's big day and being so mad and just throwing away $15 like it would be what's that kid cutty album where he's shrieking which one ridiculously? Which one?

The first rock album, the X-R-M-S-1-1, I can't remember. I'll ask you know who about it. I don't, imagine buying that. That would be so fucking funny. Dude, it was even worse whenever you'd have to, like, buy a CD or whatever, and then you'd have to, like, rip it on your computer and, like, transfer the files onto whatever bootleg MP3 player you had.

Yeah, man. We're dating ourselves. Everyone, everyone in the comments, like, what the fuck? It's like, what the fuck? You're talking about ripping CDs? That's crazy. All right, unc. well what she answers

I'm like yeah I'm like it wasn't long ago fucking 13 years no exactly I think something for me again that like hits close to home is it's not like all inclusive to this app

but because some wraps do it now but one of the first dude was a WhatsApp I remember growing up every single time my mom would want to talk to her mom or her siblings or whatever it might be they would have to run to the international store and grab

a calling card and it'll scratch that bitch off and they would have to like put in whatever special numbers you get like five 10 minutes or whatever to yap on their phone and now they just do it for the absolute freaking do it however long they want. Shout out what's that man. Yeah, shout out the WhatsApp. Oh, another one is food technology. You know how easy it is as us today to be able to diet and like have all these protein snacks and protein shakes and all this like education around food? What a time. And how many products are available to us. Yeah. Like it is so much better than it must have been back in the day yes you can track

literally anything yeah make whatever you want yeah bro you can be like Nebraska and get like like megos oh let's not get into trade routes let's not get into trade routes let's not talk about that before the Cuban missile crisis back of the day

have you heard no that's funny of her before the Havada canel All right, well, listen, that's producer's corner, man. What a quarter. 1,700 trade routes, man. Oh, you don't miss it again. 1,400 trader hours.

I was tempted to see how far I wanted to push this, but let me stop talking. It is now time for TikTok time. Let's go. Let's go. Welcome to TikTok time. Today we are starting with the tier list, a very special tier list that's near and dear to my heart near andrew to mo's heart i know especially near and drear donovan's heart you're talking about our glorious king lapuki james we're going to do a tier list of the greatest and most

iconic moments of lebron james's career oh man one of the most iconic players is in the past calm down calm down so many iconic moments what i i hear it in your tone i'm wrong i hear it in your tone oh boy where do i begin you're you're pre glazing you're pre glazing relax relax calm down Just telling the truth. It's a real simple. A through F or S through F, we got a tier list. I'm going to name moments, plays, accomplishments, different variations, but iconic moments of the king's career.

You guys let me know where it falls. King's career is ridiculous. I've never said that before. I've never said that before. That's so embarrassing. I ain't going to lie to you. I never call him king. I just want to piss them off.

I can do it straight face. I've never once said the king. All right, first off, the first championship. 2012 I mean it's cool and it needed to happen yeah anytime you win a championship it's s tier wow yeah well especially I mean

if you have multiple some of them aren't it's impressive as others but this was the ultimate get the monkey off my back championship he was the most scrutinized player in the world for so many years this must be such a relief no keep keep talking I didn't even look at where that phrase comes from because that is kind of wild

my back where does that come from Keep going Your terminology Your analogy bag is fucking crazy You're going to play that on me That's on you What if it wasn't it

You just said it Like I made that shit up You probably did But yeah I mean I understand The most impressive championship But it's his most needed

For sure Yeah for sure Especially coming off Of the 2011 loss Which is arguably The greatest loss For a superstar That caliber

Ever in history It is the worst loss It is the worst loss Yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay, we get it. We get a bad loss or whatever, losing a JJ Birdie and then boys or whatever. But for him to go ahead, win it against KD, Hardin, baby Russ and all that other stuff. Cool, much needed moment got the finals of VP to S to your moment to chip. The only thing that could have made this better is if he would have got its get back against the Mavs.

That would have been special. He would have to run them back here too. If you're going to put the fear of God in Jason Terry's eyes. But Mark Cuban wanted to be cheap. Couldn't happen. Speaking of that, what are we going to do with? him getting the get back on Jason Terry specifically and dunking on him. Oh, that's S-tier.

That's S-tier. I remember, listen, in, I used to have a computer class, and every day when I would go in there, I would change the screensaver to this specific picture. People were moving. They would change it every single day. I put it on this. I, listen. Do you not, what?

Do you not realize you're back-end glazing right now? You've been the first one so far to say S-T-E. Back and glazing? Back-in glazing right now. You're glazing in like different ways. Slazing the rear end. That is crazy. Don't put that on.

That is on you, brother. I need you to understand. This is more about my detest. You're getting creative when it comes to finding out ways to glaze. I don't like Jason Terry. All right. Anytime we can embarrass Jason Terry on national television, right, immortalize his dub. It's S-tier.

That's dear. There we go. Best play of his career. Right. What do we do with the decision? iconic moment good or bad I don't know F tier

Here me out You said S tier F tier Oh F tier Oh why I will say It has aged very corny It has aged in a very corny way

To make this big old broadcast To do your decision Listen you are lucky You did it at the Boys and Girls Club That's the only That's the only saving grace From the entire thing It's helping out the community

It's charity You could have wrote a check he gave it to him. You didn't, yeah, but you don't have to make the whole production. It's FTA. It's FTA. It's FTA. All right. You can put an FTA here. Donovan Wants. He cares more than we do. Wow. He hates the kids. Wow. What do we do with the banana boats?

The moment this photo was taken at this meme immortalized. C or D. It was never funny. You don't fuck with the bandana boat boys? Plus, they're missing out like one of the key members from the crew, too. Chris Paul was not there. Hey, you snooze you fucking loose. Sorry. I was trying to plan. a banana boat for us. I was planning one for us.

Are you not with it? I'm turning it down because with the way that you guys are talking about Chris Paul, I would be Chris Paul in that situation. Fuck the banana boat. You just can't swim. Whoa. What do you mean by that? You can't swim.

That's two. I can't swim. I can't swim. You literally can't swim. That's two today. That's why I literally can swim. What's up? What are you going to see?

Now, your montage is going to be crazy. We got a blog channel now. Your montage is going to be nasty, bro. All right. What do we go with him? He got a long list of them holes just ready to rattle off. Where we go is this 2018, 51 point game one performance. tier because we got so many like gems from that one of the greatest memes on again well also

one of the greatest performances also i'm not sure i've ever hated anybody more than i did jr smith that night it's like that and pete carroll throwing the ball at the one yard line in the super bowl against the Patriots those are two men have hated the most in sports history that is fair that's fair you know what you drop 50 on one of the greatest teams of all time you got it but you lost the game A tier. No. You lost. You won the game.

We're not getting a. It's got to be A tier at best. You lost. What? A tier? You lost your mind on national television because you lost. And because J.R. You were two.

You dropped 51 points. You're going to lose your mind. Listen. Speaking of losing his mind. I didn't do that. Speaking of losing his mind. Speaking of losing his mind. What do we do with his tantrum after the no call against the Celtics?

Can we put that in? F. F? F. All right. I think it's hilarious. It's a great meme, but we got to be consistent, too. J.R. Smith doing that was very funny as well, gave us a meme that lasts even longer than what

LeBron did in that Lakers era. So you've got to be consistent. Plus, it was a meaningless game. I respect the passion. I get it. I wanted to win that game, too, was a Lakers fan. Why are you on the floor? Just answer me that question.

Why are you on the floor, buy your own accord? Why did you put yourself there? That is fair. Grown man. I'm going to need you to stand up. Get the fuck up. I'm going to need you to stand up. Yeah, that's embarrassing, legitimately.

FD. Even moments before that, too, he was spazzing out. He wasn't even on the floor. He was like, oh, I'm going to, yeah. Is that meme him looking up? He's like, looking at the scoreboard. Like he's watching bombs fall. Oh, my goodness.

Next up. And they get that get back. What do we go with the 2020 ring? The bubble after Kobe died. Again, in the Lakers uniform. This is iconic as hell. Only Bubble championship in history. People make fun of it now.

But it was his first in the Lakers uniform right after Kobe died. It's going to age in a great moment. 110%. And they make fun of it for the stupidest reasons too. Oh, Bubble, Disney Channel ring or whatever. Bro, we've seen teams that were favorite over the Lakers, like the Los Angeles Clippers. Just go ahead and flame out. We've seen the Houston Rock.

It's flame out So many teams flamed out They weren't built for the moment Like AD LeBron Alice Caruso KCP and all them boys were Iconic Sounds to me like an A tier

Put it in an A tier No no no no no What did I say before? You win a championship Gotta go S tier Gotta go Never mind sounds to me like an S tier Okay

Okay okay Where do we go with Space Jam 2 F embarrassing I will put it in D only because Salute to you, you got a back And listen If that's all you're chasing

By all means, go ahead If you're trying to create good films This is not it It's not it Why have I as an American 24 seen a movie featuring LeBron James and Rick and Morty? That should never happen

That should never happen we're playing that in D before that day I thought Suicide Squad 2017 would be the worst we've ever seen I thought Star Wars

Attack of the Clones would be the worst movie we've ever seen something like that SpaceShound one update that's the worst one we have ever

fucking seen he should be ashamed it's so bad it's so bad wipe this off his resume bro when I think of this movie I think of him

yeah like he y'all are right he's not up to it's up tier Donovan your dad was right whenever I think about this movie not even top six Where do we go With his block in 2016

S tier? We already know this is S tier What? Blocked by James Blocked by James I hear it in my dreams right now Keep going Tell me more Did you see the despair In Andre Igudala's eyes bro

And he acted like He had to like Christ resurrect And then what Chuck? And then what's crazy And then what? And then what? And what else? Oh my God, bro, I can go on and on and on.

Where do I begin? No, easy, S tier. Defining play of the 2010s, defining play of LeBron James' career, defining championship of his career, Estere. This is what his career is about right here, defying all odds. We're going to go with his game six performance

against the Boston Celtics. People say this is LeBron's best game ever. Don't know about that. But it's up there. Because I mean him looking real intense. It's me. Listen, I'm, I'm that. This is his best game.

This is his best game. Wow. I'm people. Exactly. No, this is, this is actually, you want to know the definition of locking in, the definition of rising to the occasion. That is, that is this game for LeBron. If they lose this game, Paul Pierce eliminates him yet again. You can't, you can't let Paul Pierce one up you.

And LeBron said, that ends today. I'm giving that S tier Wow Yeah sorry I read something Yeah literally He invented locked in syndrome with this game The originator This is my Twitter header bro

And it always will be Will never change Is it really? Yeah You're 25 Yeah you I didn't realize how much of the ways You are

I always thought it was like a joke But this is you Dude every He's he's on one of my last Instagram posts as well You're 25 So? what I got to do with anything

it's greatness last one we got LeBron James breaking the all-time scoring record listen shout out to him right

he clearly prepared for the moment he lost the game put that in eight tier you lost bro that is quite funny he was a national televised game

probably the highest ratings in the entire year he lost he had his shoe play you act like they lost the bums You act like they lost the bums. It was okay. Sir, he had his suit planned two weeks out, right?

He said in the first half, I'm going to give this everything I have. The record will fall tonight. And what happened in the second half? Listen, he made that shot. Had nothing left in the tank. Could not beat the thunder at home on national television. My lasting image of this game is the one photo of him taking the fade away. And Thomas Bryant is below the rim.

Calling for it, posted up, wanting the entry pass. He's like, do you see the seal? Every fiber of his being thought that he deserved that dunk. And he did. That was Thomas Bryant's moment to shine. That team was so clunky, okay? That's why I want to go ahead and give him a stimulus and put that in that year. It's NBA history.

Stop that. MBA history. No, he lost the game. And that's the end of this team. Next thing we're going to do, Mo I believe you have something 2K related to show us 2K yes sir re yeah it's about that time where you know game

I think game is starting to come out but we did this series a couple months ago maybe 5 6 7 months ago or whatever where we're gonna go ahead and look at these old face scans and I want to see if you guys can guess the NBA player by their 2K face scans some of them maybe like wildly off or whatever

and others are just like old from like 2K5 let's see your ball number Last time we did this, y'all got it real, y'all let you off real easy because I showed jerseys a little bit. But this time, it's just numb but straight head in your face. Love it. It's my favorite. Come on, man. Next up.

All right. So guest NBA player by their 2K scan. Who is this player? Oh my God. That looks like Miles Riles' dad. Uncle from the Butterverse. Is that Uncle Aaron? I ain't go lie.

It looks like Donovan with a goatee and a mustache. No, the only thing Donovan has, the only thing Donovan has a like with this guy is that he's black. That is no way. Donovan. Stop. Stop. That I am not lying. No, no. That is, this is, this is not me.

But this is not me. This is a character from Coach Carter. This is every high school student from every 2000 sports, sports movie. That's who this is. I don't know who this is on the NBA scale. My first. My first thought is I see that mustache. I see that low haircut.

Is this J.R. Smith? No, it's not. Hell not. Damn. Now I see the MP behind it, so I know it must be a young player from the late 2010s. Yeah, okay. Because they don't have a screen cap in there yet. See, he's, God damn it. Look at him. Is this R.J. Barry? Is somebody random?

No, it's not R.J. Burry. Is it a lottery? Marshawn Brooks? No. It's a young guy. It's gonna be a young guy that don't have his picture. Is this a lottery pick? Uh, yes. I believe so. Yeah, he was. He was. Okay.

A lottery pick from the late. from the late 2010s. Ooh, this is a tough one. Is this Josh Jackson? No, it's not Josh Jackson. Not Josh Jackson had a lot of hair. Earlier, it's not in the 2010s. I'll say that.

It's not in the early 10th? No, it's in the 2020s. Damn. 2020s? In 2020s? Yes, you would not believe who this is. Oh, wait, who is it? Just tell us.

I don't know. I'm cooked. This is Tyrese Halliburton. Tyrese Halliburton Counterpoint No, it's fucking not This is 2K21 Tyreys Halliburton Then boys didn't even try

They're just like Tyreys Halliburton And I just some random black And throw on some facial hair And we're gonna worry about this kid Ain't doing none That man was at the beach all summer This is crazy He said he ain't going to be none

Put some random on there That's sick Wow, crazy All right Next up Guess this player. Oh my God. Dion Waiters.

He was in this podcast. In this podcast? Yes. He ranked him. You ranked him. We ranked him today. Not Dion Waders. Not Deion Waders.

In this podcast. Hey, man. Who you though? Tracey McGrady? Somehow, this is Kobe Bryant. How did you know this was Tracy McGrady? Oh my gosh. You're a freak of a word.

I look at this and I thought, 2004. You're weird. bro. You're weird. How? The keel texting me and he's like, he texted a group text. He said, this is Mo. Not even like, give me more respect. Damn, you got it. Okay, okay. He looks like a bench warmer. Those eyes are wide.

They did him so dirty. It's ridiculous. They did him ridiculously dirty. All right. Next player. Who we got? Who is this guy? Oh my God. Who is this? And why did they do David Robinson this bad? He had the most vile smell ever, and this is not David Robinson. Why did they do Patrick Ewing this bad?

This is not Patrick Ewing. Keep rolling at all. Damn it. I am. Is it an old guy like that? Who is? Yes, it is an old guy. Like pre-2000s?

Yeah. Yeah, it just looks so familiar. I know who did. I've seen this face. Is this? He smelled the craziest shit ever, bro. Is this somehow Doc Rivers? No, not Doc Rivers.

Dominique Wilkins. No, not Dominique Wilkins. You're getting closer, though, for sure. It's what's his name? What do you mean? Who are the other Nick's big for the 80s and 90s? Let's kill that. Not a Nick big.

Okay, okay. He's still relevant in the NBA today. Shat. He's not a player, but he does some shit. Is Joe Dumas? Is it Nate McMillan? This is Joe Dumars. Oh my God.

There we go. Oh, yeah. Okay, I knew it was a face you recognized. Yeah. Joe Dumas. I saw the outline of somebody I recognized. Yeah, exactly. It is actually pretty all right.

Other than like... No, that's not bad at all. Yeah, that's not bad at all. Yeah, good job. Good job when that win. Next player. That's all I needed. Who is this player?

This is easy. He looks wild, right? But if this is... Jason Williams. If this is not Chris Mullen, then I don't know who this is. Oh, it is not Chris Mullen. White chocolate.

Is this white chocolate? No, look at his head. He looked like he'd been hit with a frying pan. Is this not white chocolate? No. Not Steve Kerr. Like a deadlift Shremp? I don't know.

You are correct. This is deadless. I know everything Is his head of real life This like flat on the top I don't know honestly I just thought of the dude from Rocky If he dies he dies

So I thought the first European guy I can think of Wow that's so crazy When I see this picture I profiled this shit at a deadless shrimp That is so crazy Bro you I just saw who looks like Ivan Drago Oh my gosh

That is hilarious bro This dude loves doing headstands That's what I see when I think of this all right next up how did i get that who is this player you should be a cop a podcaster jeff t exactly that's my guess this is not jeff teague what damn it man yes it is no it's not yes it fucking is it should be but it's not jeffty don't let no freckles man what are we talking about uh this looks real a men thompson no not a man thompson wait wait wait Where they drafted post 2015 or later?

Later. Yeah, this is a recent 2K. Hmm. Oh, who could this be? Who could this? This somehow, R.J. Barrett? No, it's not R.J. Barry. It's always RJ Barrett.

You want to say R.J. Barrett's so bad. That's funny. Oh, what years are you drafted in? I don't know if I can get this one. I believe 2019 or 2020. Is this John Morant? No, not John Morant. Not John Morant.

Not John Morant. 2019, actually, I think about it. Cam Reddish? No, not Cam. What? You're warm with John Moran. It looks like Desmond Bain a little bit. Desmond Bain, you got it.

They gave that boy Frasels and like here. Some random life skin. There you go. Listen, I see how they got there. He was too young to get a face scan. He was a 27th pick or something. They weren't going to bring him in the office. So they could have done worse.

Okay. Again, 2K. Now, again, that is Jeff Teague. That is Jeff Teague. Absolutely. It could have been worse. It's Jeff Teague because of how deep his eyes is, bro. And plus he looks like a funny.

I can hear the jokes already. Exactly. All right. Next up, who is this player? First of all, why is the picture? That's all of his dad. I was going to say the same thing. I'm going to tell him you how said that.

He goes to see. He goes to see me. It does. He's going to be like, damn, they were right. Let me tell me in the game. Say what game this is. Let me play this right now. Is this Chauncy Billets?

Wow, you got it. This is Chaunty Billups. Thank damn. First ball guy that came to mind. He cheated. Yeah, yeah, okay, okay. You thought of the shiny his head he could. Good job, good job, good job, good job, good job.

Okay, I believe we got one more player and I, or actually two more, and you cannot guess who this is. Kobe Bryant, I don't know. It's going to be so many ridiculous. It's crazy because I know it's an old player, but this looks like Victor Oladipo. Wow. Oh my God. It does. Is this Chris Paul?

No, not Chris Paul. This got to be like 1999, 2000. It's got to be an old game. This is Michael Jordan. No, I will say Donovan is the closest with his Chris Paul and Oladipo comparisons for sure. I said Chris Paul. He said Oladipo. So in terms of era?

Era and also like play style of one of those guys. This is Dwayne Wade? This is D. Wade? This is D. Wade. This is D. Wade. See, I just knew it was an old guy. that they absolutely butchered like this looks like nobody i kind of get it with the nose and eyes is like sharp or whatever i kind of don't so who's that this is 2k5 give him a break

ah okay i thought i was older than that no no they didn't dirty deep fried ass photo how small that shit is why didn't we expanded this is the game this is the best quality i could find all right next up who is this player bill ambier i was thinking the same no yes it is don't want to hear anything else is this Timothy Mosgov that's actually a great guess

and you're ironically close I hate that you're close yeah Kevin Love this is so gossipy somehow no nope you guys are pretty close

you say Andrew Bogget oh that's Andrew Bogget that's Andrew Bogget no it's not wrong Brunette White keep going damn there's only a few of them

are on that time is that like a soul Zeller? Hansboro? Nope. Nope. Hansborough. Yeah, I'm sure he pulled Hansborough at his spot.

Why would I do that to you guys? I don't know. I would never. Now bring the confused. Yeah, no. Tire Hanbron. Who is this man? Now.

Brunette white boy. Brad Miller. He's a swaggy white boys. He is close to Donovan's heart. Close to Donovan's heart. What? There's no white people on Donovan's heart. Come on now

Now Mac Miller Ties with him You have ties with this player Donovan I do Yeah There's ties

Yeah You know he'd be around the block What Okay so this is either He said around the block Is either an old rocket Or a Nick That he's talking about

Yes Old Rocket It's not Yao Ming Is this Kelly Olinic Oh is this Omer Oshik? No no and no is it a nick this you are correct oh you can warm said the nicks it's not timipi mosgob who else what the biggest do they have what nick is you are in hell right now who they have

who they have before tyson chandler it was like i'm lost i don't know this is andrea bar and i bariani oh see okay exactly see so i'll like him we'll rock with all right so here's the thing you're going to hell. Why? First of all, make it clear. Just make that up front. You're done.

You guys don't fuck a Bariani? No. He was ahead of his time. Stretch big? What? Now when we got him, trash. That now,

now he wasn't supposed to be drafted there. That's you, that's, no, we did too much. Yeah, it is what it is.

But you guys did worse, which is great. Then last time? Yes. This is what you guys are way worse in last time.

I mean, you made it, you took away jerseys and gave us small pictures. Small pictures. It's not my fault. What did you expect? It's not my fault. You guys couldn't do what to do. All right, man. Next thing we're going to do, I'm going to name two NBA players.

You're going to tell me which one is better. Okay. But, but I'm going to take away one key skill from each player. Okay. You're going to tell me who would be better in this circumstance. Oh, let's talk about it. Let's do it. I add another layer.

Real simple. Let's do it. So I wish NBA player would be better without this skill. First off, let's keep it simple. Let's keep it predictable. Steph Curry with no shooting or Magic Johnson with no passing. Steph Curry with no shooting or Magic Johnson with no passing. Who is Steph Curry or no shooting?

Some life can do just be running around. Running around for no reason. It's Camposo. I think Magic Johnson has more value still because... Sadius Young. He's just big. Yeah. He's a big.

And he can put the ball in the four two. Yeah, I guess at that point, height wins. So magic, magic gets it. He could just be in the way. I'm losing, maybe you can be PJ Tucker in another life. He could set screens, some other skills. Grab some rebounds. For sure, get to the rim.

McCurry. He just drops it out of bounds because he can't pass. Yeah, but he could jump a low. He loses all sense of passing? Huh? Does he lose all sense of passing or just a he-he-he-passing? Yeah, just no thoughts between those eyes, can't pass. He's just going to, uh, every time.

Then in that case, uh, yeah, I still go back to. I still go magic. Yeah, it's a great player. Okay. Next one. Anthony Edwards with no hops or Jason Tatum with no jumper. Hey, well, listen.

Anthony Edwards with no hops. He still has that handle. Just groundbound. The way Jason Tatum has been playing, he looks like he has no jumper anyway. So we can, we can go with Jason Tatum. Listen, he won't a chip with no jumpers. Anything is possible.

That's what I'm saying. That three-point shot is gone. So I'll go Jason Tatum. Yeah, he'll find ways to be valuable. Jason Tatum in this playoff room was like Ben Simmons, but he tried to shoot sometimes. Oh, Vincent. No, Jason Tatum in the Olympics. He shot like, he shot like 0 for 16 on all jumpers.

We have first team all NBA defending champion. Could you imagine Anthony Edwards? Do imagine if Anthony Edwards had zero dunks to his name? His PR would be in the toilet. He would just be Dionne Waiters, right? Ooh. Oh, I got, he would be. Yes, he would be.

Yeah, damn. Damn, that's crazy. That's good. Shut of Dan, winners. Okay. Nicole Yokic, actually, Joel M. B. with no free throws or Nicole Yokic with no left arm.

Ooh. We know Nicole Yokic with no left arm. It's hilarious. But listen, the hook shock is still going with the right. He's a little push shot with the right. He's right-handed. So, Yokic. Hmm. What? You took away his non-dominant arm?

He physically has no arm. Oh. He's an amputee. Oh. He's an amputee. I see what you're saying. Okay, okay, okay. Karaniy the syndrome, it'd be happening sometime. I see what's just saying. What's my guy saying? What's my guy's name? That's what I'm saying? What's my guy's name?

Yes. Yeah. It'll be like him. Bro. Why are people not locking him up? Oh my gosh. He's mad inspirational. He gets guys with in and out crossovers.

Where is the ball going? Like, it's not going to the right. It's not going to the other hand. What are we doing? I would, that's crazy. Joel and Bid without his ability to draw fouls is still probably an all star. But mentally, but mentally he's thrown off his game. So I'm going to go Yokit with just one arm.

The hate prevails. Whatever. Okay. Next one. Anthony Davis with no defense or Kevin Durant with eight inches of height gone. Katie with eight. How tall is Katie right now? 7.

7. So he's 6.4. Man, so he's like 6.2? That's just Kyrie, right? Cool. he literally just asked him how how taught he was he told you and you took another two inches off of that you were not listening at all yeah i wasn't i was all i was already thinking in my head who was this guy oh sky either way either way kd at six four is still like crazy

so i think kd at small gist is monta ellis yeah nah not monta ellis Yeah, Monte Ellis or just Hashim to beat with bad facial hair. Hasim? AD with no defense. That's just Carlythetowns. Monta Ellis or Carlythetowns? No, but you can't shoot. It's just DeAndre Jordan with volume.

Like, that's what that is. Deandre Jordan will volume. No, AD can't. That's a, that's crazy. No defense? That John Henson? Oh my God. John Henson, oh my God, it is.

What a deep cut. All right, Kevin, you win Monta Ellis. Kevin Durant, you advance. Trey Young with no shooting or John Morant with no jumping. Damn. Ooh. I'll give Trey Young with no shooting. Now that is Campazo.

That, yeah. No shooting, no defense, just could swing that. You're just running around real fast, real small. Yeah. But I'll give Trey that just because he's a better passer. If John Morant can't halfback dive to the rim every single play, I don't know what he would do. That cross dad be saving his life. No, Rondo that can't jump is just Rondo.

He's groundbound hitting these layups, don't passes. See, now we're disrespecting Rondo's IQ. I didn't say he had Rondo's brain, but he didn't be able to like him like Raja Rondo. I like Rado just fine. Let's unpack this really. Exactly. Oh, my God. Now, I'm going to try young, though.

Victor Wimonyama with a 6-foot-1 wingspan or Luca Donchich, but he can only shoot left-handed. So Wembe's 7-4 with a 6-1 wingspan. Correct. And Luca has to take every shot with his wrong hand. It's probably... Luca would still probably average, like, 22 a night. Yeah, his efficiency might be like 41% or whatever, but still.

God, I'm... 7-4 with a 6-1 wingspan. That's worse than Desmond Bain. That is... That's worse than, like... Well, yeah. That's worse than... than Gio dude that's awful

it's it's all of his defense is gone he has a nice jumper but that defense is gone oh my god his arms would look like nubs on him it'll be nubs for sure like you hit his ass on a shrink ray remember he kids you put the arms in their shirt and their hands down yeah

yeah that's bad yeah looker for sure 22 points on 41% from the field he's he just started Luca to Jordan Clarkson. I love that. Okay. That's the end of that one.

Next thing we're going to do, let's get a little more serious. Okay. I'm going to name different skills and I want you to let me know who's the best in the NBA right now at that specific skill. Okay.

We'll start vague. We'll get more specific right down the list. Being very serious right now. Yep. Very serious. Real basketball talk. Yes.

And we're fucking around. Of course not. First off, real simple. Scoring. Um Could go Currently today

I would say Luca Donchich I think it's still Kevin the right Over Joel and B Yeah I would say Luca Donchich Because I've seen him do it

And every level and also I'd like the three point volume too I like the three point volume Does Yokish have an argument Because you know When he needs to turn it on He turns it on As efficient as anybody

He does He's just not the shooter But scoring is scoring At the end of the day It's about getting a bucket Yeah But I prefer getting a bucket Best touch, best down low score in the league right now.

Yeah, but, bro, Luca's efficiency at the rim is disgusting. He doesn't get there anymore, though. He put on that weight and he stopped driving to the room. Y'all see him? Y'all see the new clips? Oh, my God. It's tough. It's rough.

He's looking like James Hardin. When he's trying to get out of town, looking bad. Today I'm going, Yokic. We'll see in November where Luca Dodgers comes into the camp looking like, but it should be Luca. K do don't, does KD have an argument? No, not at this age of his career. Damn. They don't hate you

They still like top five But I mean listen Luca and Joelle and beat are clearly The best volume scores in the league We know what Jokic can do We know why Joel and Beard is Where does Shay? Where does Shay? She's up there

She deserves to be in the conversation Yeah We'll care about Janus Oh Janus too Yeah, Katie's not up there Yeah, he just put up 30 points On like 60% shooting from the field And we just still don't care

It's so funny Who you? KD or Janus I'm only Katie I'm leaving Katie I'm like a bag Next up Passing

Yokish Hands down You got it Is Yokish or Luca I guess that's a conversation Is you which swaggy white boy do you want Give me the bigger one Who'd be in the pain all the time

And has less turnovers I think Yeah I think that's been The decision making is so much better Yeah Like turnovers aren't a big deal Good passes are going to try Diffical passes

and turn the ball or sometimes Yokish does difficult passes and still doesn't turn it over that much he just makes the perfect pass

every time yeah I like and I don't know who has life harder because Luca has the ball in his literally

all the time although he has Kyrie on his side but Yokic has the ball in his hands like he he does it from everywhere

everywhere literally yeah he's just his processing speed and decision making with the passing is just next level Lucas is just as good

as accuracy wise but Yokic is processing his next level yeah exactly give me yokech all right interior defense so say one be your ad no go bear love no who who we we we we we we that make it he he he deserves you go on keep going All I know is we, we and baguette.

I think I might, I'm, it's Rudy. I kind of want to give it. It's probably Rudy. I want to give AD some love, though. I mean, that's, you can show him love in different ways. What? Why do you like that? Why are you like that?

Why is that undertone in your voice like that too? What, man? Check him. Next one. You're going, you're being suspend. If y'all see Isaac not on the show or whatever. form a like content we produce next time we're showing we're talking about Arabs just lowering our stock god damn you buy a jersey I don't know who's the next

parent Rudy it's Rudy I'm not I'm not messing with your foolishness on this one perimeter defense this is hard there's a lot of good perimeter defenders right now Drew Hardy so you'd be easy to say that it could still be Drew could be Drew could be Drew could be Drew Jones I'm going one man It's Herb, Herb, it's Herb. I'm going to Herb Jones right now. Yeah. I think Herb Jones will have anybody in a straight jacket for 48 minutes.

50 minutes. The Pelicans, the Pelicans started C.J. McCollum, Jonas Valchunis, and Zion Williamson together, and still had a top 10 defense because Herb Jones has fucking clamps and sat down all year and locked everybody up. It was crazy. The first team all defense is all centers, except for one man, Herb Jones. Herbert. One man. one myth

one legend who goes by the name of Herbert who knows someone that name exactly who would have known that someone by the name or Herbert would strike so much fear on that end crazy can't can't think of anybody Herbert

damn okay off the dribble shooting besides Steph Curry we'll pretend Steph doesn't exist because he's obviously one it could be Luca Kyrie or Katie

I think those are the only three that I think about or Shagher's Alexander's tough as fucked too. County Midrangers, yeah, but obviously the three isn't quite there.

Yeah, he just doesn't want to take them. But if he did, Anthony Edwards could be there too. But if he did, they were going, so it's okay. He wouldn't be fair

if you can make three, so you should just take it easy in everybody. Exactly, exactly. And he just likes to compete. No, he does not. What?

No, he does not. Off the dribble shooting? No, he does not. Off the dribble shooting? No, he likes, he likes to take them, but he doesn't like to make them as much. So, no, he's not, he's not getting that knock.

He's not even a bit of off the dribble shooter than Tyrese Maxi. Okay, I disagree with that. Off the dribble shooting. I don't know how. That's like, that's like numerical. That's like, undeatible. Man, I, uh, says who? I'm, I do, I just want to see that.

I really don't care. I just want to see the stats. I'm pretty positive. I mean, Maxi had obviously at the end of the year when he was with nobody around him, chucking his efficiency dipped. Yeah. But every other year of his career, Maxie can. You know, let's see Max C. B is the number one option on the team to see how that efficiency holds up.

But I'd go to the easier out and say Luca. Okay, we'll go Luca in terms of difficulty. Yeah. Listen, if Lillard comes out this year in shape, it's probably going to be Lillard again. But we'll see. Listen, he was working out with David Guggins, right? Well, he really? What I mean?

It means there's some boats that are about to be carried. There's some logs that are about to be carried. All right. One more video before we get out of here. We're going to talk about the most underrated and overrated teams right now going to next year. We're kind of kind of make a TikTok about this. Get a lay of the land on teens we buy in on and teams we're hating on right now and see how it ages. Okay.

So first off, it's two parts. Who is the most slept on NBA team right now? Across the league. Who are people underestimating? The most slept on NBA team right now. I'm going to me. It's easy. I'm going Memphis Grizzlies.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. People see Zach Edie and they see a big slow center who can't do anything. How old's game transit to the NBA? I see the perfect interior force to compliment John Morant who Jared Jackson can hide all those weaknesses. I see a second seed that got two new young wings that got a new center better than Valchunus, better than Stephen Adams. I see nothing but high potential. However, I will say, I will say our propaganda is clearly working. The other day I saw Zach Eadie is the favorite to win

rookie of the year right now. Good, good. The second he got drafted, I said he should be, and I hope everybody put your money there. It's going to, what's going to occur? He's going to cash.

He's the favorite. So, yeah, so I'm going, I'm going with the Memphis Grizzlies as the most slept on. Yeah, I'll do that. I would say someone who's not, not on the Memphis Grieties's trajectory

in terms of like how much damage you're doing to do right now, but I think they're going to surprise a lot of people, the Houston Rockets. So much young talent on that. team um another year Javari smith junior you have you get to you have a chance to figure out what the hell jailing green is but read shepherd and the man thompson um yeah they have so many young guys they have so many young guys if one of them take a star leap they'll immediately become a better team

and a hierarchy we start to make more sense yeah exactly i think they could easily snuff and sneak away like 43 wins in the west and if jalen green looks like april jane green this year big if it's a big if it's a big if it's a big if it's a big if But it's possible. You think then Bill's going anywhere? He better be. Exactly. All right.

And inversely, who's the most overrated team right now, you think? The Dallas Mavericks. Wow. I think, listen, obviously, and look, I understand it, right? They just made the finals. I get it. I think a lot of people are putting the Mavericks as like a lot to be top four. I don't think they're a sure thing to be in the top four of the conference.

I think that the West is going to be extremely. really tough. I think OKC is going to be better. I think Memphis is going to be better. I think Denver is going to be better. And listen, if you rock with Minnesota, you can put them at four, right? The Lakers, let's see how they fare with the offseason, with offseason change, with the new coach, right, with a coach that doesn't just stand on the sidelines with

his hand in his pocket. The West is really competitive and everything gets decided by one to two games. I don't think that it's set in stone that the Mavericks are going to have this, like, you know, replicate. amazing season. This isn't really a team that's hyped, but I don't think that Damar edition is going to make the Kings any better.

I think the Kings are still going to be kind of ass. They're still going to be a playing team. Shout out Damar. I don't think he brings an element that will really change them compared to the rest of the West. So I think people think they're going to get a lot to get better if you do.

I think it might be disappointed. I think that they're going to be either like the exact same team or maybe even a little bit worse. I think they're going to be a little bit easier to guard too, because you're not going to shoot the three point the three-pointer and that's what you were known for a couple of years ago and now you kind of regress on that end so it's like I know your

bag I know your move I hate that we have turned from the light the beam pod to the king's hate pod but I'm with you guys because not only do I think that they aren't really going to do anything I think that they are missing the play in all together oh I think that the Sacramento kings are going to be 11th seed or worse in the Western Conference this year. Damn. I think they can make the plan. I don't think they'll get out of it, but I think they can be nine or ten. There's a bunch of teams that are that are going to be.

I'm being generous saying they can be the nine seed. They're not going to be good. Yeah, I think that Houston Rockets, I could see them surpassing the Kings because of how treacher's side. I foresee the future. The Rockets and the Grizzlies are both going to be up this year. And do not, do not let. Victor women, y'amma, take the leap and the spurs get into playing range.

Oh, God. Chris Paul and Harrison Barnes is there. They're going to definitely take it. There's three teams out west that can legitimately make a leap. The kings are in trouble. Ever, ever, ever, ever disrespect Harrison Barnes in your life. You disrespect him on a daily basis. No, I do not.

You don't even like Harrison. Spel Harrison. Harrison has done a good job to come to. Yeah. on you don't know you don't know on that note that's the end of the show if people are still here Donovan

what should they comment get that monkey off you back on that note we'll see you guys next week