The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked The Greatest NBA Big Men OF ALL TIME | Ep. 156

Episode Date: August 30, 2025

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It has been almost exactly two years since we made our first top 30 NBA players of all time ranking video in the summer of 2023. That video is a million views. That's our most viewed video. A million views on a three hour podcast is ridiculous. That was our first in-person podcast, too? Yes, it was our first in-person episode of all-time, episode 50. Damn. And then last year you guys know, we did the comeback to that part two by ranking the top 30 guards of all time in summer of 2024.

Today we close out ranking season 2025 by doing part three. to our all-time ranking series by ranking the top 30 big men in NBA history. I am so excited for this one. It's good because I was thinking about this before like next year, it's like, are we going to have to do top 30 wings

and are there 30 small forwards? I feel very confident about attaching the label all time to. Yeah, I don't know. I'll probably won't. Yeah, I'm not sure. No, we'll change it up. Before the big man one,

this list, this list was the hardest one just because, like, even on guards, like, When we were talking about, like, Steph versus Kobe or something, those are conversations that we've had before. I've never had some of the conversations in terms of, like, this ranking of, like, comparing KG to, I don't know, some random, you know, big center. Like, though, it's a weird crossover, even though that they play very, like, close

positions. We're combining power forwards and centers to make it a little more interesting than just top 30 centers. That way we're not ranking, like, Marcus Hall and, like, you know, boogie cousins or whatever towards the end we want to make it so it's all like legends some of the defying players of all time so combining path forwards and centers like you said conversations we've never had before I feel a lot better about this I did the guards looking back like immediately after did our guards the last time I was like I don't like what I did here I didn't do a good job ranking

this I was lazy at some of this so I'm very excited to show all the thought I poured into this one compared to last year yeah no how you felt about the guards last year is how I feel this year I fucking hated this so much because I had to go back and do research on some players who I never heard of I'm not how to read I'm like why am I looking at this crusty footage and like trying to decipher

these parts about the guy I don't I shouldn't be doing this right now but I'm doing it for them yep yeah it'll be fun we're gonna rank them before we get into it though before we started I guess we should talk about our criteria because every time we do any type of ranking video there's always so many comments about inconsistency and like contradictions in our ranking you make a list

and like not even that like I guess I understand how people say that because they'll see things like a conversation in the 30s. We pick somebody that we think is just better, you know, they have less accolades. And then we get towards the top and we give somebody a nod over a different debate because they have more accolades.

And they're like, but that other debate, you gave it to him because he's better at basketball, but this time you care about rings. Everything, every single ranking on here is a sliding scale. We factor their peak, how talented they are, their team accolades,

their individual accolades. All of that goes into this amalgamation of value to each their own. Sometimes the difference maker between two players that are really close in talent will be rings. Sometimes somebody has more rings, but other person's better.

It's a sliding scale, and this time the talent wins out. It'll be different criteria for different debates because these players are different with different contexts. Yeah, these people don't. Sometimes I don't think you guys understand that. Conversations are like fluid. Nothing is like solid to the core

because you have to have like a certain level of context to individual players and what they're able to like achieve during their prime or whether it be like totality of their career and all that. So it's all different from, for a majority of the part. Yeah, plus also like, and obviously like we're going to, like we're going to talk about it a little bit. But specifically in all time rankings, the hardest part is how much respecting of a certain time period are you going to do, right? Because there's people on the list that have like a million accolades, but then you look at it and like you look at their backs of all reference page.

Which is different. And it's like, yo, they weren't counting blocks then. they weren't kind of offensive rebounds like the the way that you were looking at the game is just so different and so to see to see somebody who played in 1955 and there's like half of the half of the bars are empty because it's not a lot of stuff but then you transfer it over to somebody who played in a more modern game and it's like clearly they have more skills than the person in 195 but how are we weighing that in terms of like how you compared to the people in your era and then like just stacking up resume stuff like that it's that aspect of it is extremely hard and that's where i think

the inconsistencies come into because we might be having a debate about two people in the 90s and then we get up here and it's like somebody from 1970 to 1989 it's like oh damn like i don't know how to do it the exercise is gauging individual impact in a team sport that in it of itself creates so many contextual just loops to check that it's inherently going to be inconsistent if you're looking for one thought process in this because there's not going to be just one we're not going to just weigh rings in your era

not going to just weigh MVPs it's a mix of everything so should be good though I think hopefully we did a good job balancing all this it's a hard hard balance to hit

yeah with that being said cue the intro music let's get into our third all-time ranking episode the cranium is crazy oh my god I mean I don't know

don't know what to say Pray on eaters rejoice. So you guys know how this works. We're going to start from 30, work all the way up to one, revealing five at a time for each of our list until we have the entire thing in front of us. First off, here is my first five. At 30, I had to Kimbeamatumbo at 29, Rudy Gobert, 28, Paugasol, 27, Bill Walton, and 26, Ben Wallace. Rudy Gobert, top 30, said, arrow.

I know everyone's screaming at right now. It's not crazy. Yeah. I didn't want this to be the tier where I just put all the DPOIs that suck at offense. I actively tried not to do that for a while. But when I went back and I tinkered everything and I moved guys up and down, I was like, damn, I have to put the three D. It just works like that.

Yeah. And, you know, Ben Wallace is the highest of those three between Ben Wallace, Gober and Matumbo, who regents of each other in different ways because he is the one that was the anchor of a championship. That is the difference. They want a championship with his style of play being the anchor, which is a simplistic way to view it. But that was the difference there.

and the Gobert, Matumbo, that's a hard one. I went back and forth. I went with Gobert just because I think, one, I probably have the benefit of knowing the minutia of his game from watching him a little better, but I understand that people feel how they feel about Gobert and hate him for sucking at offense and being unlikely with all these things. I don't think the offensive talent is any different to him and Matumbo. And I think Gobert, the way he carried defenses in the modern NBA,

where offense at its greatest, offensive rules are at the time. their most lenient for offensive players is the hardest error to ever play defense. And the way he's single-handedly has carried defensive teams to the conference finals on the Jazz on that first year with the Timber Wolves where he is the defensive anchor with bullshit defensive talent around him and still anchoring top flight defensive units. That to me was slightly more impressive. Yeah, the jazz years are, it's crazy because if you go back and you look at those rosters, it's like, yo, there's nobody out here that's like locked down.

It's really, it's really kind of crazy the way that they were able to. to have that level of defense. And then just that entire, like, error was like, wow, it really was deemage, you carry the offense, go over here, you do this and like that's energy was supposed to work. And then he goes to Timberwolves and is on a wonky team with a power forward that is a center. It isn't good at defense either. And they do essentially the same model.

They once again have the best defense in the NBA, make the conference finals with him and Kat making it work, mostly off the strength of Rudy Gober being a brilliant all-time great defender. and I know there's the emotional talking points of him being exposed in the playoffs, can't defend the perimeter. All of that is fiction, for the most part. Obviously, he can't defend Steph Curry in the perimeter.

Neither could Matumbo, neither could Ben Wallace, neither could. Hakeem Elijah won, if you have him go out there on the perimeter every single play in Steph Curry. A big man is never going to do that. If they are, they're one of the greatest defenders of all time and they will be on this list because of that. So maybe Akim is a bad example, but he's not that.

You know what I mean. But despite all of that and all the criticism to go bare, he is one of the greats defensive players of all time. And he can't be super high on this list because the offense is the offense. But being the best defensively top five to ten all time for a center's list is extremely important because everyone knows the center is the lifeline of all time great defenses. And if you would have put him with other Hall of Famers, you would have thinking about him a little bit differently. Yeah. I think my gauge for Matumbo and Gobert, of course, like some of the greatest defenders that we've seen of our just entirely in the NBA.

But I will say, I feel like when it comes to Gobert, obviously similar to you, it's a little bit more of a bias because I've seen how much of an anchor he is. From the research that I was able to do, it seems like Matumbo, he's more of like a traditional big body center who does like who thrives in the paint as well. Now, of course, like, I don't know, if he was an NBA today, maybe he would have the ability to have like layers of impact instead of just like maybe two layers of impact in the paint. But I'm not going to call you crazy for putting Gobert ahead of him at all. They're super identical. Yeah, yeah. And I do think, again, people think about Gobert as being alive building the perimeter. As far as seven foot two gigantic centers go, he's actually quite nimble in the primitist, especially when he was younger.

These days, he's lost a step a little bit while he's still a great defender. Look at him in 2025. He's a little more clunky. He moves a little more like a traditional center. Go back and watch those jazz days, especially early on. He was fluid. He can pull up and legitimately run a pick and roll as a defense. and press the ball handler, get up, retreat as a ball handler in the drop.

Like, he can do it all on all levels as a pick and roll defender. He is not just a stationary, generic drop big. Yeah. Um, Powell at 28. Why, why Powell? He didn't, he didn't make my list. Oh, wow. Yeah, he was, he was, he's one of those, like, you know, honorable mentions,

first one in, or first one out, whatever. But, like, yeah. So, like, having a salt over Gobert with, like, obviously, it's, it's, like as soon as like he is the missing piece for for Kobe and they get those back those back to back things but I don't think he was as impact or at least defensively as yeah as go bear obviously the offense way different yeah exactly that's that I don't know that balance is interesting yeah I struggle with this tier was hard for me this I spent the most effort on these back 10 I at one point I agreed with you originally I had him like 31 and I think I had yalming at 30 and I just ended up moving them around yow ming was my first cut and I really is so pow has long jay but he played for a long time. He wasn't in the game's career before Kobe.

He wasn't on great teams to where it was like could be shined. So he wasn't stacking up all NBAs and something like that. He's also not good enough to be the best player in a championship team. He's just there to me because I think those two years where they want with Kobe, he was like the quintessential second option big. That was like an important part of two championships. And we see further up in this list. I think that is valuable to be the like perfect second star.

And if he was a good defender, he'd be higher up if he was like a really good defender. So I'm not mad at you if you pick somebody else as being marginally higher. Like if you want to reward somebody from a past era that had more accolades, stacked up all MBAs, did things in their era more and kick him off. I just think he's a certain level of talent that I think gets him above Goberra Metumbo, who obviously don't have anything offensively. And the two rings were impactful to me because it wasn't just like, it wasn't like Kevin Love on that Cavs team where he's a third option, role minimized, all these things like that. Gassau was a vital part of why that Lakers team worked. Yeah. Okay.

I love why you squeeze ball Bill Walton. in there, man. Do you leave him off? Yeah, I did. He's like one of my first cuts, sadly. He has, I feel like, I don't know, Bill, I feel like Watson has to be on, on the list. It's, it's tough because he's like,

he's 1970s Derek Rose. Yeah, it's like putting Derek Rose in the guards list for sure. The only reason I kept them on here is because I think his peak that MVP season, that's one of the greatest bigs of all time. So like, I think when you, there's a certain level of peak you have where you're, if I think you're one of the 15 to 20 greatest peaks of all time,

even if it's a short amount of the time, I want to put you on this list. But it's hard. It's only a two-year prime. The reason I justify squeezed him on here at the end is because he had a few years of role player where he figured out and won a six-man-a-year at the end for that Celtics team, I said, you know what?

You had a little bit of a recovery to your career at the end and found a way to adjust your role and did a little bit more value towards the end. I'll allow myself to put a two-year peak on here just because there's a little bit of a squeezed on extra at the end. If you want to leave him off because, again, a two-year peak is nothing. Go for it, but I was like, I'll give him a little credit there.

Okay. The peak is just so crazy. because like even even rose who wins the who wins the MVP like they lose in the conference finals if that one year is just like you win like you have an MVP you have a championship in your prime like stacking up everything that you can in that one year I do have to give you a lot of credit for that exactly and honestly at first I had Walton a lot higher I had like 21 I think I ended up moving him down just because as I was going to other people I'm like long Jevy does mean something to me and like being able to stack a decade of productivity even if it

wasn't as I was high of a peak. I'm like that has to be a baseline rewarding over Walton so I ended moving him down but you can't you can't underestimate how amazing the peak was like if he had played for a decade this would be a consensus top 20 player of all time yeah okay okay who's up next mo who is your 30 to 26 30 I have Dennis Robin 29 Draymond green welcome back to the club let's go 28 matumbo 27 boss and 28 I got palgasol 26 Pagosol okay Chris Bosch is also one of my first cuts. I just, I find myself, I think I respect the Raptors' years

a little bit less than some people do. I think some people after, especially like that weren't like us, we were really young at the time. So I think people of our age group, our first like memory of like mainstream Chris Paul. I mean, Chris Bosch is when we were 10 years old and the big three happened and he joined up

with Dwayne Wade and LeBron. It's like a big three. So I feel people of our age that weren't like super locked in to 2009, Chris Bosch, assume he was like a top five place. in the world too and they got three of them yeah he wasn't like particularly at the top level of the game before that you know so to me he's like mostly great third option on a couple championship teams but i think before that it wasn't all-time caliber it was all-star it was a great

player but it wasn't top 30 peak caliber to me that i felt okay leaving them off just because the number of all-emba seasons or like all-emba level seasons weren't as impressive to me as other people on this list yeah i understand that for sure for me personally, I was, when I put Chris Bosch on this list, initially he was like a little bit higher and I was like, hold on, man, I'm maybe doing a little bit too much. But I appreciate Chris Boss, because how he was able to sit down and morph his game and be literally like a pillar of this generation's of basketball when it comes to being one of the first big men to step out and extend his game and just really morph into what we now call a traditional five. I gave him immense

appreciation for that alongside the stuff he did. Toronto now um I think he's 27 yeah but I I can understand leaving him off this list because the Toronto stuff and also being what just because I don't know I did a little bit a it's a little bit of salute because like you're one of the first you weren't the best obviously but you were one of the first to go ahead and transcend this game as well so yeah yeah it's pretty similar to Gasol honestly so if you want to say if you have Gasol unless you have Bosch as well as a two-time champion tertiary star that's fair yeah I don't I don't I don't have botched on my list but I do I do agree with the argument in that like he's going to be

he's going to be one of those guys which like this guy was a problem but like but not just like an all-star of that club like an all-NBA type of type of guy where when you compiled that list of people he's probably going to be like in the top 10 of that where like forgotten stars that was yeah more problem people remember yeah and I do think that like you're saying like being able to to transcend the game and being able to be one of like as the league was moving into small balls centers who can shoot having boss change his game to be able to space the floor a little bit more i like obviously that's that's the heat that's everything but his ability to actually end up doing it and be very versatile on on on defense and be a good shot block a good a room protector

while spacing out being able to knock down the three all that is super important and it is an an archetype that like if you had a player like Chris Bosch in today's NBA that's exactly what you're looking for from your from your fives so I I understand the argument he again he didn't make my list but I do like the the archetype of what he was able to accomplish yeah it's not a bad pick or anything I would have put him like 34 or something like that like he was in my consideration of the people I cut in my last five so the range from him being 27 years 34 on mine is pretty much the same type of thing yeah okay okay listen we all we all have look atreman Rodman.

Yeah. The defense specialist right there. I had to go ahead and do it. Yeah, I mean, just listen, Robin has the rings, has the DPOIs, that's fair. Now, I didn't put Ben Wallace a part of this group right here. Very much probably should have put him in this, probably at the top of this range too. But genuinely just like some of my, because I was doing so much appreciating for Dremont Green. Yeah.

Shout out Dremont Green. I think you put him into any era. He's still going to have the same level of impact. And I think that whether it be the two, thousands or 2010, even now, obviously, or hell, maybe even like the 80s, he would still be like, oh, no, Dray Maureen's a fucking issue, man, because of the trash talk, obviously. He will put hands on fucking any and everybody as well, he fits perfectly in that era, bro. Yeah.

I'm never going to be upset rewarding one of the greatest offenders of all time. Yeah. Very worthy placement, 29. Donovan, who is your first five? At 30, I have Gobert. 29, I have Ben Wallace. 28, I have Dennis Robben. 27, I have Kevin McHale.

And at 26, I have Draymond Green. Okay, so first off, we've gone over the DPO-wise. I think we're on in Greens there. We appreciate those. Kevin McHale, that's kind of low. So, like, Mikhail, and he's very good. I think his progression from six men into being, you know, one of the best players on that, on that team, best players in the league is great. He's honestly just a, he's a casualty of when we go further up,

the list there's guys that have a little bit more like individual accolades than him and a couple people who are like if i'm just lining them up i think i would rather take them over over mikhail yeah and so like 27 is the absolute lowest for him i there was those versions of this list where i had honestly much higher but what i thought about it and i was like do would i rather have draymond than McHale right now if I had like a decent guard it's a weird you know conversation but Draymond's defense is so

crazy and it's so versatile and I like I respect it much more respect it I like it much more than what Ben Wallace and what Gober are just because I you're more mobile and like yeah and you can also guard you know fives whatever like you know now once we get to the top 15

Like, Draymond's not guarding any of these guys. Neither are Ben Wallace or Gaubert. All the top 15 guys are cooking everybody. But I think I would want Draymond and his Swiss Army Knife and his ability to man everything on defense a little bit more than Mikhail, where that entire Celtics team was stacked. And you do have Larry Bird offensively. I mean, Draymond has Steph. But, yeah, I think I just value Draymond a little bit more.

And so it's like, again, it's tough for Mikhail. I understand that it is a little. low but that's that's kind of no you hate the Celtics it's fine it's what it is you just you continuously show us your true colors you hate the Celtics you hate Bostonians I think you might hate white people boss I think all around you are the villain listen man I cannot confirm what I have no words I no I mean it's not it's a low end but it's not insane I do think because we saw that there's a one year 87 where he averaged 26 points per game he split MVP votes

with Larry Bird Larry Bird was third in McHale was fourth an MVP I think You know there's like the argument always like he could do more if needed like the Mon Genobley type of argument But like imagine Mon Genobley had a season where I was 27 and it wasn't just theory That's kind of hard to view that with that season that kind of that moves me a lot in terms of like Entertaining those arguments that mackale is that talented offensive player just never needed to But we can give him mental credit for that

Yeah, the sacrifice for the team and it's again. It's it's it's really tough because I mean McKale also was like a good defendant. He's making all like all defensive teams six down all defense yeah and so it's like yeah like okay draymond is not that offensively so why would you put mikhail over it i i just think draymond is able to unlock a lot from from other people and as we're like moving forward into like a i don't know like a more modern style of basketball i feel like even even in like i don't know 1987 if you put draymond there with all of his skills as like a as this like versatile defender basically like if he's rodman yeah but with better passing chops can the celtics still kind of get there yeah i think i think that they that they can and

so i think that draymond's skill set goes up and down and all really all throughout time where i feel like mackale right now if you if you put him in in today's game you're not really asking mikhail to do the things that he does great yeah so that's that's again it i understand it's hard so i understand it's low, but that's why I ended up with it. Stay on that side. I'm on that side, too. Okay, let's move on the next year. Let's do it.

Donovan, who is your 25 through 21? 25, I have Nate Thurman. 24, I have Dwight Howard. 23, I have Anthony Davis. 22, I have Patrick Ewing. At 21, I have West Unseld. Okay. Dwight Howard and Anthony Davis is so difficult.

I also put them right next to each other. I actually put them in the next year, but I put them right next to each other. Okay. I ended up taking off West Unsold last second just for longevity. purposes and like how weird that MVP is he got MVP as a rookie and it's like one of the least impressive statistical MVP's in a weird era that I probably don't have the breadth of context needed to fully understand as a 25 year old so it's probably pretty impossible for me to

fully understand it 26 oh fuck I heard how much I said that I was like dude we're 26 I forgot I just forgot my own age honestly that happens all the time with somebody somebody were asked me yeah I never say that allowed I'll say I'll say 25 and then like I've said it one time and I like to say it was like you're 26 so embarrassing I haven't said my age out loud in like three years I feel you yeah maybe I lack the context of the unselled thing I ended up removing him last second just because all the things we talked about bringing together peak versus era first longevity versus team and all this stuff but I do understand I like it it's hard to leave an MVP off the list so I so I will say 21

And 21 through 22 right there, that's for me is a tear break where everybody from 21 and above, you've won an MVP. 21 and above you want to be it. That's what I did at first two. I ended up changing it for Walton and Unseld specifically. I was like, I just got to apply some context here. But I first I did that too. And because I do think like it is, it is very funny. He really peaks and then everything goes downhill.

Yeah. Because a lot of what you talk about with West Uncell does come early on. but like we also have to get a ring towards the end though and it's good but it's also just like the consistency

of his rebounder early on like you look at it and like the numbers are just gody 18 is a rookie yeah it's it's crazy and so I do think like that MVP for me

is doing a lot of carrying obviously but I do think that if you are able in any era to say like hey for this one year like my peak

everybody who is around the sport and covering it they said you were the best guy this year i do think that that holds some merit so that's why he gets at 21 but like ewing ad dwight howard like all these guys are obviously all time great so whatever but like that's that's where the the tier is for me that's fair uh yeah i also treat mvps as like extremely valuable it's equal to a championship to me and i do treat sustained years of like top three to five in MVP voting okay that's how i like it's obviously you and for modern era we understand

who's like the consensus top 10 players in the league and stuff and it's really important to me that you are a top 5 10 player in the league for sustained periods of time and I think there's no better way than consistently getting top 5 MVP votes

sometimes just wonky years or someone's like 13th MVP vote and that doesn't matter and like really like six and seven is like the worst that matters to me like if you're six place MVP that probably means something

maybe I'm like NBA honors like maybe that did some stuff to me but like even if I see you as like fourth and MVP, I'm like, nah, it doesn't really move me. Because when I think about MVP or like fourth and MVP votes, I think about we got to give Devin Booker some votes. We got, we got to put Jason Tatum in these conversations when it's like, okay, like, we're going to do that because your team is winning.

And like, obviously you are great. But like when we're having the conversation, you're really not on the top of our mind, but we have to fill out this five person ballot. So that's why like 100%. If I see like MVP 14, I don't care about that. But, like, even four and five, sometimes I look at that and it's like, okay, but were you ever, like, truly in the race? Yeah, well, I mean, the Jason Tatum is a good example. He's consistently at the fifth place in the league.

So that's, like, exactly why. Like, Tatum consistently being fifth place in MVP, like, that is precisely what I value is consistently being in that range. And like, sure, maybe there's some, like, if you feel the way about Booker not being worthy of fourth that year, sure. I think more often than not, though, you'll see that it has correlation. Yeah. Respect to the olds, man. Respect to the olds. Respect to the olds.

I will say, I did not put West on. on this list, bro. He averaged 13 points for his MVP. Of course, like, his game is not predicated around points for game or nothing like that, obviously. But talking about, like, sustained greatness and all that loosely. I just don't think he's had the same level of impact, not impact on the game, but level of greatness weighed the same as someone like Anthony Davis or Patrick Ewing. Yeah, it's hard because a lot of these big that won MVP's in past decades don't have goddy scoring numbers,

because the game is played differently, obviously. There wasn't these high usage players a lot of times, so you see 20-point-per-game MVPs all the time, and they were great scores for their time. And that's fine, right? Like, an Elvin Hayes, Will there's read, stuff like that? Fully respect that. But there also was gaudy 30-point-point-per-game scores back then.

Like, those people did exist, you know? Like, Will, existed. All these other players existed. Moses Malone existed. So I didn't let myself index too much on, like, your scoring game is whack playing in the 70s. But I do got to remind myself that there was elite score. still yeah and honestly it's funny because like the the 90s and the 2000s is actually a like low

it's obviously like a slower game it's a low in scoring and everything go look at like at 80s basketball it's a track meet yeah the pace is crazy and so a lot of times like the offensive efficiencies like those numbers aren't aren't great because one they're not taking threes but also there's just mad possessions and people are just taking shots and so the opportunity to score like for unsob he could have like i'm with you i'm not going to look at you and be like oh you didn't score 20 whatever but like also you didn't score 20 like you know like you know like you said the opportunity to score was there and so whether that be because of your specific position and how teams were like trying to use you obviously there's there's all

that context but it's not this like slow ball era that's fast basketball just does not start in 2010. It's also important to note, though, the way voters talked about MVP back then was very different because the general thought of the time was the most, obviously, Biggs and the most important players back then because the game was played inside out through the post.

A lot of high post passing, a lot of plays ran through a guy holding the ball in the post, your biggest guy. So the game just was played very differently that even though the scoring wasn't always, your big wasn't the best score, they were thought of as the most important player because they were like the hub.

So just a very different mode of thinking that I think is important to remember, like, Wes Unsup probably was the best player that year. You know, he was a small, undersized big that did some ball handling that ran was really quick for the time. I think he's a player who would, like, excel in today's game. Oh, that's Draymond. Yeah, exactly. Literally, Draymond, and he's, like, the definition of, like, you know, like 13 points.

Probably Zion. Don't scoff or bond. I don't know about Zion. No, my bad. Not analysis-wise, but, like, size-wise in terms of, like, being that four-sized body that can ball handle. Yeah, yeah, I 100% agree. and his impact is so wild.

I just read up that the first year that he, his rookie year, obviously one MVP, one rookie of the year, and the following year he put up better stats, but no one even considered him to be even an all-star at that time. And so I think back then it feels like everyone gave him so much respect as to how much better he made the, was it Baltimore Bullets? Yeah, the Baltimore Bullets that single year. so after that I think everyone else did like a little bit of course correction

and was not even to talk to him as an all-star but he is one of the more impactful players that the league has ever seen and I think he belongs on this list and I would put him on this list but he wouldn't be on this tier for me yeah I didn't want cutting him but I understand if you wanted to say MVP baseline top 21 I respect I get it yeah well who you got 25 Anthony Davis 24 Yao Ming 23 Alonzo morning 22 Dwight and 21 Duel indeed. Dwight and AD is such interesting conversation. Let's save it because I'll have happen on my next year. We'll get into it. I have a lot of thoughts.

It was hell for me. That's very hard. That's a hard one because his peak is so good. He is such a dominant player, but doesn't have playoff success because of injuries, doesn't have sustained regular season success because of injuries, doesn't have longevity because of injuries. I had to cut them. But if it was top 30 peaks, I think you could get him in the back end. But there's just guys

that just accomplished more and had comparable levels of skill. Like, Anthony Davis is also at a if Pete Anthony Davis is better than y'all mean. So, like, I definitely would put at least AD. That's, yeah, that's, that's very fair to say. I don't have no grabs around when it comes to that. And I think this list right here for me is, this is one of the toughest ranges, this, this list, this tier right here. And then the next one, easily gave me fits, bro.

I fucking hated it so much. To me it was this tier and the last one we did. The bottom 10 were hard. Yeah, I feel you. Which I'll just reveal mine. Go ahead. 25 Alonzo morning. 24, Draymond Green.

I didn't, same with us. I got him even higher. Dremon Green is incredible. 23, Joelle Embed, 22, Patrick Ewing, 21, Elvin Hayes. Yeah. Draymond Green of Alonzo Morning. That was one of my hardest debates. Very, very interesting.

That was one of my hardest debates, because Alonzo Morning is obviously the better two-way player, best player on his team. In 1990, in 2000, he was DPOI and was top three in MVP voting. He was legit two-way player, great defender, engine of his team offensively. Don't give a fuck. Draymond Green is, in my mind, I think there's a case for Dramon Green. to be era-adjusted in the convoy for greatest defender of all the time. And when I say era-adjusted, I mean this era of basketball, like I said earlier,

the hardest to be a defender in ever. The rules don't let you be as physical. You can't hand-check. You can't do a lot of things that players talk about all the time and why it's hard to play defense today. So the rules go against you and offenses are fucking genius level today with the spacing, the understanding of how to make the most of different skill sets, the way that specialists that suck on offense can't even play these days.

You don't have role players that can't shoot, players that can't dribble everybody one through five is a threat offensively and offensive range are through the roof it's impossible to look at offenses today and not view them as a whole different caliber than even 15 years ago and yet draymond green is the best defender in the nba in these days for this era which not to say he's best defender today but for his era i think he's the greatest defender he is the most influential defender outside of bill russell i think in terms of we talk a lot about like small ball starting with like chris bosh marie stademeyer that era small Small ball didn't begin in a meaningful way until we found a way to make it work defensively.

And it started working defensively when we saw what Dremont Green could do. He is the origin of small ball lockdown defensive guys in the modern NBA. Obviously, they exist in the past. You know, but Russell's smaller, there's plenty of smaller defenders. But in the way that we can see small ball today, it really begins with Dremont Green. He is the blueprint for a switchable guy at the five to defend modern ball handlers and pick and roll and isolation. He, everything he does defensively is one thing.

Offensively doesn't get enough credit for the playmaking he does. And yes, he's in the perfect. scenario, maybe it wouldn't work outside of Steph Curry. It's a good thing he has Steph Curry, and we can gauge his career off of what he did next to Steph Curry, and he is not equally as important to the championship teams, because Steph Curry is one the greatest players of all time. Very close second. He is as important as any second option could be to a sustained era of excellence.

Honestly, if Dremont Green, if you really think about it, if Dremont Green was deleted from the NBA, it would look so wildly different. Of course, I think things would transform and happen, but it wouldn't be until, maybe 2025, 2027 or something like that. He helped, he and Steph Curry, obviously, helped fast forward the progressiveness of the NBA when it comes to this elite level style of play and just overall, like, breaking down NBA norms and shit. Yeah, exactly.

The way that Steph Curry revolutionized offense in many teams took learnings from what Steph Curry and Steve Curry unlocked as an offensive team, and then you get Darry and Doni leading their Rockets Renaissance right after doubling down on the three-point stuff. and really taking to the next level, taking the learnings from Kerr and what Dan Tony did with the Sons, a lot of defenses took their learnings from what Dramong Green helped Steve Kerr unlocked defensively to. It's almost equal there. And honestly, he's such a generational talent that even though I'm saying all these things

that are like replicated by teams running small ball, nobody else has won a championship with this because Draymond Green is that level of chint talent that you can win a championship with him being a 6-7 center. Because he's even if we're talking about like the heat playing small ball, Chris Bosh is still 611. Yeah, he's gigantic. You know, like, he's still, he's still a, a tall person. I think that was more about LeBron at four was the small ball thing for the heat.

But even, even then, like, you're still anchoring that and asking Chris Bosch to be your rim protector at 611. To, to have that and say, Draymond at 6.7, you have to do those things that, like you said, like, that's the truly revolutionary part about all of it. So, honestly, like, this is, this is probably the highest we can go with Draymond just because it's, like, and beat and you in it. Yeah, MVP start next. But, man, I would like to put him, I would have liked to put him higher and give Draymond as much credit

and as much of his flowers as possible. He really is amazing. The reason I ranked him and I didn't put Rodman is one, I think the level of offense utility is night and day. Draymond, especially for those, let's say 16 through 18 whenever he was at his athletic peak, could shoot is incredibly fast,

has a deep transition threat, and the passing is just, extreme utility. All these other DPO wide level guys are defensive specialists that are essentially elevated role players on this list, like the bigs you mentioned before

with Matumbo, Gobert, and Ben Wall so extent, way less offensive juice because of what Dremont does as a passer and as a mobile big that can push the ball and be your point guard from the power forward. His offensive value is night and day.

And also, like, I didn't rank Rodman just because, you know, he was obviously very important to the greatest regular season team of all time before Dremont's team. But it's just simple of the fact that they want without him and then one with him like they didn't need robin per se no but i think even even before like

to make the case for robin it's like even the stuff that he was doing with the pissing yeah yeah dp y i'm just saying that very sure well i'm just saying the difference there is that draymond is like the reason they could have this dynasty and i just wait that a little bit more which isn't to say robin isn't like worthy to pick or anything but overall it's like this is a greatness conversation so i understand yeah i just think draymond's four rings are a little bit more impactful than robin's three and then the DPOIs, you know, they're both that level of player. Robbins, what, four, five, however. Oh, because of Pistency.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So equal, equal rings type of content. And I just think Dremont's better offensively, they're both two of the greatest defenders of all time. And I think Dremont's importance to his team and how he made that dynasty happen rather than not to say, again, I don't want to make it sound like Robin was just along for the ride. He wasn't just a guy.

He wasn't James Jonesner at the end. No, but, you know, he wasn't. Stand that side. He wasn't the pillar. He wasn't MJ and Scotty. Raymond is Scotty in this conversation. Yeah. You're calling him a bus rider.

It is where it is. It's how you feel. Looking back at this, I really, really do hate as time goes on where I place Anthony Davis. And I tried so much, tried so hard to give someone like Alonzo more in respect. And also Dwight Howard, too. And backhandedly just like left me to not forget about Anthony Davis, but like not really look at what he's done throughout the entire course of his career as a number one overall pick being the number one option on the I guess back then Hornets but now Pelicans leading them to certain levels of success that they still haven't

seen yet at all through I don't know what it's been like five six years um winning an NBA championship being one of the best players in the world since dating maybe between 2016 all the way up until like 2022 he had arguments to be a top six yeah player in the world consecutively for those years all time, time. I think I should have put them right in between and Bid and Dwight. Yeah, well, I had that conversation next year. I'll save my thoughts there. We'll get into it

for sure, but I agree. AD's hard to rank, so I don't blame you. No, it took me a lot of time. Elvin Hayes versus Patrick Ewing. Man, I learned about Elvin Hayes yesterday. What the fuck is a Helvin Hayes, man. Bucket? What do you mean? What do you mean? Yeah, Elvin Hayes is very similar to Ewing and he was a top

five to ten player for a decade. Yeah. Honestly, his resume is kind of like Patrick Ewing if Patrick Ewing won a championship That's really the delineing The deciding factor there is 1978 He won a chip as a finals MVP and MVP So that was a deciding factor But a lot of their like other resume outside of that one year

Very similar You know what? You got the chip so go ahead Yeah go ahead and go ahead and talk Don't have the beat conversation I'm assuming you didn't include him Donovan He's actually higher for me Oh what the fuck what the fuck

Donovan put and beat the highest Wow man higher That's crazy Let's keep him I gotta see this I wanted to put him higher Because I truly believe Joel Embed is like a top 15

Peak center of all time Like I think he's one of the greatest players In the big history In terms of like his abilities And people hear that They're playoff choker yada You're right because of injuries And he never was able to be healthy

In the playoffs and have a successful run When he hit his peak Which really the last like three years When he became like MVP second Or first every year averaging 34 points per game There was a different level Between early prime

Joel Embed where he was Straight up choking the playoffs in late prime joel and bd where he was one a one b best player in the world most these years and was getting hurt for this playoff runs that's why he couldn't succeed that to me is one of the best players of all time it's one of the biggest tragedies that we couldn't see him have the full breadth of his talents in the playoffs what in the blue moon man you haven't beat higher than both of us wow i know what i respect it let's keep it pushing i thought i was doing the most but i love it let's get to the top 20 Because I think, yeah, we'll talk about more of these guys in these next year.

Mo, who's your 23-16? 20-16. I have Bob McAdoe. 19. I have Elvin Hayes. 18. Paris. Parrish.

My bad. 17. Willis Reed. And 16. I got Bob Petit. So this is your unks tier where you saluted all the guys that have the resume that you don't know shit about their game, but they have a lot of chips. Yeah, I did a little bit of deep diving as much as I could.

Elvin Hayes, fucking goon as well, bro. What do you mean? You, like, walked into your rookie year and you gave everyone just 28 points per game. and casually and you were just like a routine all-star and I think I won't think of him like damn bro he he was legitimately the Jason Tatum of his age of his air just consistently

elite NBA player no one ever thought of you as like the best obviously this is the first time in the history of this show do you ever said your name bro no one thinks of you as that nature because you are like the Tatum of that age it's also going to be played in the 70s exactly of course too so salute to you

yeah um so yeah that's my list shout out to Bob McAdoo No shout to Bob Mockney for sure Found out that Bob specifically He was also He almost feels like The 1970s version of Joelle Embed Super short

Like an impactful run to his career But easily forgetable Because of how short his prime was due to injuries Exactly I put him So they're technically different tiers But I have I didn't beat at what I have my 23 I had Bob Mockney in the same place you do I think For the same reason that those guys are all very similar

in that it just they didn't have a sustained excellence yeah exactly okay other than that you know shout out bob pettit for the first like goat level player in the media history i think actually put him with the exact same spot uh willis reed finals MVP makes sense yeah this is your straight unk tier so donovan who you got this is also my unct tier um and so i have willis read at 20 bill walton at 19 elvin hayes at 18 bob mackadoo at 17 and then embit at 16 i put here's what i did I put all the hunks right there And I And I said listen

And B does have the MVP I think I'm gonna put him ahead Okay Because I do I do think on talent alone And if I'm If I'm adjusting If I'm adjusting for error And I have some talent

I think I would take Embed over all of these guys I think I think And obviously it's just because I've seen Embed play much more than I have seen everybody else play. And so I am going to lean that way.

There's some 7-year-old right now calling you a punk through this screen. That is important to acknowledge that we have the privilege of understanding the minutiae and understanding the real context and find details of these players' games that like Willis Reed, we understand what Willis Reed did, but like if you tell me to dissect his pick and roll

defense the same way I can't be, the same way I understand his drop defender elite, the same way understand his passing developments. It can't do that. And it's also like I am very much of the of the mindset like the the hardest thing that I always get into whenever I'm doing like all time stuff is like Embedit is and Bid can do all of these things because Bill Walton played before him because because Shaq and Hakeem played before him and so you have the luck like all of these players have the luxury of 40 or 50 years of basketball

to then grow your game where it's like if imbid if you just dropped Embed in 1970 would he even beat like have the mental capacity to think like oh yeah i can do a drop step fader like probably probably not but but like as we're here right now i do think that and beat in his scoring and his ability to to play at all three levels the fact that he can do it on both ends and be truly truly elite on on both sides of that ball and have an MVP i think it deserves credit above the unks if we um if we adjust for area so that's that's that's where he gets there. I think that's totally fair. Like we stood up top, the way we're viewing this is a mixture of all facets. It's your resume in terms of your accomplishments as a team and what you led to team success, your individual accomplishments, MVP's all MBAs, et cetera, your talent, your production, all these things. And his talent is so fucking high and so honestly underrated by the people that are seeing it in the moment. He's the most taken for granted star of our time, I believe, that that can put him above certain people that obviously have all the other boxes checked. His talent just has that many points added to it. I'm just surprised you're the one to make that argument.

Because when we had these conversations, I always make that argument, and then you always go towards resume. Because here's, and here's why. If we're talking about like 20 to 16, you can have that. I think where our disagreements come into is like, I don't think Embed can ever get to the ceiling of top 10, top 12, right? Like, I don't think that's even like on the table. And I don't want to put him into those conversations with like, the. great greats but obviously if we're doing like 30 or 35 and the pool expands yeah you're like you're clearly somewhere in there but i'm not i'm not going to entertain the conversation of you with

somebody that i'll have at 13 right because those guys have a have a combination of everything and so and b and the person that i have at at 15 like from 15 up that is another tier break it is it's not only like a glass ceiling it is a steel ceiling with concrete on top of it that you cannot break through yeah and so like unless unless you blow the whole thing up and you start winning championships then i just think like i won't even entertain that conversation so that's where our disagreement always comes i got my 23 i agree but no i say just in general a lot of times are tiebreakers as you're very resume-pilled and we try to like not do so shout out development okay I love it.

Next up, at 20 I had Bob McAdoe, and 19 have Kevin McHale, 18 Dwight Howard, 17 Anthony Davis, 16 Cowans or Coins. 17 Anthony Davis, let's talk about it. Got him up high. I said this to you guys before we start recording. The single most difficult player for me to gauge on this entire list with Anthony Davis. The second most difficult player for me to gauge this entire list, Dwight Howard, they end up being right next to each other. So we'll get into, so first of all, I think they're both in this tier. I think you guys have them a little bit lower.

I understand. They're just, they're together. Yeah. Yeah, they're together. And I think they're so talented. And I guess that's why I put them above some of the unks.

It's just like they're incredible at basketball for all the developments you said with the modern era. They've learned from past generations. Like these are two the best talents we've ever seen. The more interesting conversation to me is whether or not AD should be above Dwight Howard because obviously a lot people disagree with that. Whenever this top 75 came out and AD was on it and Dwight wasn't uproar. A lot of people will say Dwight Howard is the most underrated player of our generation,

like the past 25 years. I don't feel that way. And I always feel like a hater because there's like been like a renaissance for Dwight Love because he was so hated that he retired. And now people were like, actually he was underrated. And I feel crazy. I feel like I'm being gassolet by the comments on the world to like believe that Dwight Howard was a top flight offensive player when I was around for the discourse back then.

He wasn't. He couldn't commit two postings of memory. At all right. So like he's a fantastic player, better all time defensive player than Anthony Davis by the nature of he won DEPO wise. He, Anthony Davis is an extremely talented defender. but hasn't been the like consistent anchor of top flight defenses as a drop defender that other all-time great defenders are. So while AD's talent and like versatility is a real thing, not the defender of Dwight Howard.

He's better. Anthony Davis to me is one of the single most valuable offensive bigs I could imagine because his ability to play with other stars and play with ball handlers and be the perfect second option. He's like the Scotty Pippen of Biggs to me. He just didn't have the benefit of playing with his generation of Michael Jordan for all these years. But if we would have had LeBron and AD together for all those years that he was riding away on those bullshit teams in the Pelicans, or even if when they finally got together before requested a trade, if Boogie didn't get hurt and all that stuff didn't happen, and he would have had a real championship core, I think AD has the offensive skills to be taking a whole lot more seriously in all-time discussions. It's purely the situation didn't grant it until 2020. And as soon as that happened, won a championship, 1A, 1B, second best player in those playoffs. You can say the bubble shooting was fake.

We never seen it again. That's fine. there are plenty of runs throughout history where somebody has unsustainable shooting for a playoff run and it makes them succeed and we don't look back and say yeah he never did it again

so yes the vehicle that led to the unsustainable shooting is much more pronounced with it being the bubble but we don't do that for everybody plenty of people get hot at the right moment and leads to all-time great outcomes so I view that 2020 chip for AD as the differentiating factor

yeah the the Dwight discourse offensively is something that is extremely lost because like you're going to watch you're going to watch the highlights and you're going to see him jump over people just straight NBA jammed just yamming but then it's like Dwight Howard understand Dwight Howard was one of the first people to fail out of Hakeem Elijah won school like this never happened before failure is crazy paid Hakeem to take the lessons didn't learn a damn thing yeah just wasted money wasted time everybody's time

how much is it like 50K or something I have no idea he's like like like everybody was going to Hakeem and trying to learn post moves and like LeBron learned Kobe learned and everyone's like oh my gosh like their post game is so great and Dwight just couldn't do it and the only thing that you would ever see Dwight Howard do is throw his shoulder into somebody and sweep across and sweep across the lane he might again throw his shoulder and have one drop step it's not a it's not a great bag so even whenever we talk about like offensive talent that's not there right and and he is he is he's He's, he's awesome, and I will give him credit because, like, he was the top player on a team that made the finals.

And that is, that is, that is, that is, that is, that is very hard. And it, and it is valuable. That is also, it's also a statement about how the magic wanted to, want it to, want it to build and, like, their courage to go say, like, you know what? You don't, you don't have to do this. And I promise you, they wouldn't have built it that way if Dwight could give you 28 instead of 22. I think that is the smoking gun. A lot of people say is like why he's better in Nathan Davis. He was the best player in championship team.

He never got anything done as one option, which is true. That is a true factual statement. If you say it in that way, you're not wrong. But if we peel back a little bit, we understand the Pelican teams 80 had. We understand that when they finally got serious, the co-star of the trade before he got hurt. We understand that when he finally got into serious team, they won. To be fair, it was with the greatest player of all time, so to speak. So I understand treating that with a great assault.

Dwight Howard led a team to the finals as the best player. It was, that's way more a testament to how well-rounded that magic team was. And ahead of their time, a spacing team that team was. That team started four awesome offensive threats next to Dwight Howard. That don't jump off the page because they weren't superstar talents that cross-generation memory. But that team is like, that's the same way as Devin Booker leading 2021 sons as the best player in championship team. They had Chris Paul. They had the two great young wings and bridges and Cam that gave a spacing that ate and gave him a good year.

Like it was a well-rounded starting five that yes, Booker was the team, the best player. he wasn't backpacking that team there like he wasn't just like the guy that carried a team there in the same way that Dirk winning a ring was you know so it is a good accomplishment for Dwight Howard I haven't 18 all time it's not some like clear delineation between him and a guy like AD

that he can be the best guy to make a championship team on his own versus AD who can't like it wasn't that level of backpacking to me yeah I definitely do agree I think these two guys as well are always I always find them in the same conversation in terms of like people just feel like they could have

gotten more out of AD whenever the media talks about AD or shack or whatever it is. They're always saying like, they're always talking as if he, these guys left some food on the table. And I truly think for someone like Dwight Howard, there was probably a lot more food left on the table for the sake of, for the things that you said it when it comes to his limited offense offensive capability. If he was even able to hit like shit, I don't know, 70% or 67% of his free throws, he, his points per game would have, it wouldn't have been like 20, 21. It would been like 26 27 hell maybe even 28 yeah because he he was paid all credit to like of course team construction as well too because all there are also a very important pillar of the NBA when it

comes to realizing the importance of having such a athletic freak down low we need to put as much spacing around him they're also one of the most important teams of that era too because they were they realized how often Dwight would get to the fucking foul line he had several years multiple years where he was taking like 11 free throws, 10 free throws a game throughout, I don't know, maybe a four or five year span. You know, and that just goes to show how much attention or how pissed scared teens were of just him getting over the top of your head and is slamming an easy two points.

I think these two guys would both be two of the greatest bigs of all time in terms of second option. I'm using the word second option because people use, I hate that term. But if these guys are drafted early on to play with star ball handlers that they could be co-stars with, they would be two of the greatest of all time at that rule. When Dwight Howard went to the Houston Rockies and played with James Hardin, to me, it didn't work out, obviously, for personality reasons and his back gave out and his whole body failed over time, starting with that era. But if that could have been the actual, like we saw an elongated period of time where things went well, him and James Hardin, to me, that would have been the perfect role for Dwight Howard, being a co-star, not the only star star star star star, with the ball handler. Same thing as Anthony Davis. He got LeBron and we saw the unlocked version. Both these guys are best used next to another star ball handler.

and if they would have had the benefit of being drafted with their version of Larry Bird like Kevin McAil, they would have the type of legendary career. Yeah, like, what you said is true, both of them, I do think like both of them have a lot of meat left on the bone in terms of what they could have accomplished

even just like offensively because obviously both of them are the best, you know, defensive players of their eras and stuff like that. But until like when you, you look at their careers and you start saying that you start saying both of them for the errors are at the top defensively it really is like who's just more talented and at that point AD is more talented than Dwight Howard more versatile and so that's that's why I I think

more scalable yeah and so like I just don't hate it so like I but I do understand AD being being the side I'm not gonna lie I just realize there's a fucking polo bear in Arlington right now on who's my list no my list what the fuck is Robert? pairs there, man. Oh, ring culture. He's not an important part of the legendary team. I mean, nobody's a yell at you. I would have definitely put him a tier below.

Yeah, definitely would have put him a tier below. I was going to ignore. No one's a yell to you for applauding one of the most team success bigs of all time. Nah. You know who I don't see your list, though? McHawain. That guy, Dave.

Let a ring. Yeah, shout out to Dave Cowens. Dave Cowens is probably the most forgotten players of all time. I forget about Dave Cowans. Dave Cowens was the best player. on two championship teams for the Boston Celtics between Bill Russell and Larry Bird. I don't think anybody thinks about him

in that way of our generation. People completely forget that that 70s era exists between Russell and Bird. I think the general conscience assumes that Larry Burr was drafted the year after Bill Russell retired. No, they won chips between two of them and Dave Cowens was the best player on the team.

And I'm glad that you put them on your list so that as a show we have representation. Exactly. It's too many unks. It's a lot. It's hard to remember it. Trying to do our due diligence to know the history of the game,

but there's a lot of legendary bigs that it's hard to remember when you just like do not have the public consciousness of these guys. Yeah, it is tough. But no, Dave, he's two-way player, MVP level player,

Juan Chepch's the best player in the team. That put him above AD and Dwight who are like, I'm saying one of these things that are like, they're the ultimate in theory players that I don't think it's bad to apply if-man type of things

for these lists when it's a contextual game and these guys weren't in the exact best context to them at their peak that I think it's fine to get them credit for that. that if you imagine they swap places with Kevin McHale or swap places with whoever else

that in a better scenario, like some guys don't get the best scenario for them and it's outside of their hands and when we know they're this talented with Dwight being that talented defensively AD2-way player, especially offensively, I think it's totally fine to apply context but we know they could do

if in a better spot. Okay. Okay. I agree. Especially because, you know, he has a DPO, has a final AD, has the ring. Like, we've seen it when it can go well. We just know it's not his fault. It didn't go well for this long.

So I don't think it's doing too much. It's not. You got to appreciate them. Next tier. Top 15. At 15, I got Willis Reed. Now we get,

this is the serious here. This is where we get to the real legends. Like the best, the best of all time. Hell yeah. 14, Charles Barkley. 13, Bob Pettit. 12.

David Robinson. 11. Dirk. Okay. Not bad. Willis Reed. Like the respect. Petit over Barclay.

Obviously, like, I can just see that being like a tough discussion because like Petit from the moment he walks in in is just killing dudes. Yeah. And, like, and Charles Barkley, obviously amazing. Has an MVP, he's been to finals, but, like, he doesn't have a ring and Petit does and stuff like that. Yeah, I just treated Petit like, but Russell, where we're like, you are just so clearly the best player of your era that I'm going to applaud it.

Obviously, I'm not going to pretend to be an aficionado on 1950s minutia of all these teams and the league-wide environment, him compared to the second best player, what the team environment was in terms of his help on those teams and all this stuff. But you are just by far the most dominant player of your era. have zero peers as the guy before where Russell came into the league that I put him at the bottom of the all-time greats who have rings. Yeah, that's, that's fair. Petit and how I was watching, I was, I was grinding tape. Watching, watching Petit. Watching that black and white tape.

Yeah. Yo, man, he was nice. Yeah. He was, he was nice. And, like, you, it, it's very funny whenever you watch, like, 70s or like 60s, uh, NBA tape because every, like, everybody kind of looks, you know, kind of fun kind of silly whatever and then one player stands out and it's always those all-time grades and you're like oh he could play today like he actually is good and like bob pettit was strong when

he's finishing like different different layups he's going under the room doing all this stuff like his touch is really nice and so you can see why in 1960 whatever why this guy's scoring 28 29 30 points a game and just killing yeah sometimes you're like if you put ex player back in the 50s he'd be going crazy, Bob Petty's ex-player. Like, that's, like, Cooper Flagg back in the 50s or whatever. You put Star X today back then. That's who he was. So, yeah, that's the same way we'll get to, like, the legendary unks above.

That's the same way. I respected the 60s and stuff on this list. Like, those eras, you know, some people are at usual just be like, yawn, plumbers, fuck out of here. I decided just to not do that. And if you're the best player of your generation for a whole decade by far, I gave you the nod. That's fair. Okay. Barkley versus Willis Reed took a little bit of mental gymnastics.

I was like, okay. what the fuck do I do with that comparison I won't Barkley I just think he's like that caliber of all time talent a full decade of being top five an MVP being one of the best players in the world and he lost

the Michael Jordan in the finals instead of not having to play Michael Jordan I was like that kind of is the difference is you got blocked by the goat why do you have Dirk above Robinson 2011 pretty much

you know Cary's like a lot yeah yeah 2011 that's pretty much it when you have two players that are both all time level talents Dirk's what top four or five offensive big man of all time Around like fifth Sure

So maybe maybe it's high because there are some guys at the top I forgot about like true centers Come you think about him power forwards Yeah power forward wise One of the most talented offensive players of all time One of the best spacing shooting talented In terms of power forwards Is he the second best offensive?

Yeah I don't know He's probably a better offensive player than Tim Duncan Like Yeah that's my idea Yeah yeah probably Whatever so he's in the conversation and throw Tim Duncan in there for respect, that's the top three, whatever, right?

He's a better offensive player than Dave Robinson, who did his role winning when Tim Duncan got there, obviously. And I just think that single accomplishment, what we saw, he's not the defenders at Dave Robinson is obviously, but I just think the, it's kind of a conversation we're going to get to with Yokic. I think there's an instinct to give it to the guy, especially with Biggs, one's elite defender, one's elite offensive player, not two-way, give the guy does both. That stands to reason logically. we see certain level of offensive players that it doesn't matter. Yokish is the best player in the world he's not an above average defender.

Like at a certain point if you're so dominant offensively and the team is built the right way you can carry a team in ways that great defenders can't I don't see Anthony Davis doing that he's a better defender you know he checks more boxes technically

and that's like the quintessential thing I know what you're thinking about I know what you're thinking about I know what you're thinking about the game's about a skip pass Dirk is not making that skip pass And Dirk's not top ten But look at the other guy

We haven't said his name yet But yeah, that's a difference It's just I think his offensive skills From 11 to 12 From 5 to 6 Whatever it is You know what it is There's always a bucket

Yeah but honestly If somebody wanted to But Dave Robinson above him That's fine I'm not passionate about that placement Me personally I did not do that I agree to I think the

The fact that The fact that Robinson wasn't winning titles Until Duncan got there that in this in this context it didn't mean a lot David Robinson is a guy that if he played in today's media ecosystem he would be harshly criticized

for the lack of winning in the playoff stuff like he would be harshly criticized for not getting it done and all this stuff yeah his efficiency as well looking back at it bro the media would tore him back up in their specific players obviously one of the greatest eras when he comes to a big man of all time maybe I don't know the greatest I don't know but he so many players gave him fits into the efficiency

see i was looking at it uh a couple days ago horrendous for his i think was it him or ewing no i think it was ewing shot 36% in the finals against akim i saw that i was like damn he block is rich ass bro he he gave a fit too though yeah he was he no i like Dave romison is on he's on he's the first highlight of hakeem's like highlight of the dream shake i'm like on the day that you win MVP over me that I was robbed for, I'm going to go into your house and embarrass you and just have you jump it all over in, you know, like in space and you have no idea. That's, that's very damning to your case that you are now not, not only on a poster on a highlight room. Yeah, yeah. All right, Mo, who's your 15 through 11? You read this out. I'm going to do something real quick. 15 through

11. Shout out to the first superstar in NBA history, George Mican had to put them on the list this high. 14. I got Moses Malone. 13. Patrick Ewing. 12. I got Wilt. And 11, I have Charles Barkley, not going to lie, two things that jump out to my list right now. Again, just for a clear context, I finish this list at like 10 o'clock, 10 a.m., 10.30, something like that. So that was just a few hours ago. That just goes to show you how much like shifting that I've done completely on this list and how I still feel quite unsettled. And so looking back at this, I think I would put will to above in the next tier, for sure, in the next tier. then I might want to do the same.

I don't know about Ewing. I think Ewing's at the perfect place, though. So, okay, so Ewing, first of all, thank you. But, like, Ewan over Moses Malone is a little high for me. And, but, like, why is Ewing at 13 and Malone isn't? I have no, again, I'm not like sticking to my fences. When it comes to Ewing, I see what he, I see the shortcomings, obviously, but the all-round offensive game and how he was able to damn near carry the burden of entire ever not to say

that moses malone did didn't do that obviously but when it comes to ewing and how he was just a a hub of force and the NBA at that point in time i also saw how valuable that skill set was and how translatable it was the today's age so that's why me personally i feel like his game probably would stand the test of time a little bit more and that was the end all beyond do i like like stand a whole of that? No, absolutely not. When it comes to talking about like overall greatness, I think it's fair to have more higher, probably a tier higher. But I'm not really like, I'm not like claiming that at all.

You got that flag. Who do you care about on this list? Mosul and Malone should be higher. Yeah, Ewing should be lower. Mosulun should be higher, I think. I mean, Ewing should be lower. Willem Malone should be higher. Yeah, I think that's fair to say.

I definitely would have put Wheel Tire. Okay. Donovan, who do you got? At 15, I have Bob Pettit, 14, I have Barclay, 13, I have Robinson. 12, I have 11. I have Kevin Garnett. Who, 11.

You're just embarrassing. Two, two listen around. Wow. You're ready to? Oh, wow. I even, he's going to address that. Wow. Sick guy.

See, and this is why, this is why certain people made y'all's list at the end, because I had to, I had one less spot. Yeah. So, but yeah. Wow. Sick guy. Okay. Even if we were to go in and do that, I don't even know if he belongs here on this year.

He probably doesn't. I think he's higher, but. No, I mean, yeah, he's in this year. He's right here. Did you make him higher? I didn't. Okay, good. But I would have.

I would have done a higher. So Garnett, Robinson, Barclay, Pettit. Okay. I mean, I, so would you put Dirk above Garnett. That was a hard decision always. Yeah. I understand. We'll let you get to that when we get to that point with Dirk.

But yeah, if you're doing that, I think Kevin Garnett makes sense. So is the next name. We agree on David Robinson. We agree on Barclay. Shout out Bob Pettit. Salute the goat. He's just, yeah, we talked about it. He's a bucket.

And then with Chuck, Chuck is right there where he should be like, it sucks that he doesn't have a ring to be above, you know, some of the other guys. And even, you know, that guy up there, he has, he has more, he's another MVP outside of him. And they both have the same case where it's like you were losing to the guy. And so it's not like you were, it's not like any of your finals losses were to any of the other, you know, just like other like top three player or whatever. Because you are the second best player in the world and he is the third best player in the world and you're just losing, you're losing to the top guy. So I can't use that as a tiebreaker for them. But that is.

Yeah. Tough break. There's a reason Barkley is referred to is like the best player did not win a championship. It's not gas. He is that good. He is that level. of score, rebounder, the insane mismatch that he brings as an undersized big that's faster than every big guy, stronger than every small guy, just a problem, just the definition of a

problem. I love it. Okay, we can move on to the top 10. Ooh. I love this. I'm very excited for this. The top 10 big men of all time. Now we get into real discourse.

Domino, who you got? At 10, I have Janus. At 9, I have Dirk. Eight, I have Wood. Seven, I have Moses Malone. And six, I have Yokich. Okay. Dirk versus Yannis.

Let's start there. Why is Dirk still above Yonis to you? 2011. And again, I understand that Yannis has as 2021 and he has that performance. Dirk is going to get a lot of credit for me because offensively in that era, I think that he is a different specimen than everybody else and something that, like, people hadn't really seen before. People, you can squint your eyes and say, like, you've seen something like Yonis.

because you have a young shack, right? You have things like that. But Dirk being the score that he was, it's really, really tough to think about a team built around him. And anytime we talk about context, like KG and Dirk are two of the guys that you have to put the most context. You have to put a lot of context around because obviously KG and those teams were just trash

and he had nobody. Dirk is the same way Dirk up until I think like Maybe J. Kidd at the very end Even then Jay Kidd was like by himself But I forget the specific amount of years But for so long

Dirk wasn't playing with another all-star Like the only other player was like Josh Howard And so it's it's him against the world And he's in this situation And they are Are they choking in the playoffs And are they not going for? Yes, that is happening.

Is he also playing with guys that are not all-stars? Is he also leading the team by himself? Are they also getting one seat? It's very reminiscent of, honestly, 2008, 2009, LeBron, where you are the offense. You guys are winning all of these games and are the top seed, but you look at the rest of that roster and it's like, all right, but how much are we actually going to expect a view? That's how I feel about Dirk in the mid-2000s. And I think that Dirk is extremely nasty, extremely cold.

so right now i would have him above yonis above kg it is a sliding scale if you guys have him above dirk which i guess you guys do then fine it's cool i just think that dirt and his scoring ability and his ability to like to still be able to create an offense and a viable team even with his defensive uh liability that's awesome yeah the best argument is why he's better than yonis is the playoff scoring is that it took yonis a long time had a lot of years where the buck's underperforming because he needed to develop as a score in the playoffs. He had those dropping playoff runs where the Miami Heat gave him fits, the Raptors give him fits, the wall, as we call it,

Dirk was just consistent in the playoffs, legit playoff riser that could be a go-to score. He was like big man version of Jalen Brunson in that way that his go-to scoring was consistently driving high-level offense. That's the best argument to me. The reason it's not the right argument to me is because Janus got over that. And 2021 in Omories, he's a fucking filthy playoff score as well. So because of the fact that he got over that,

If that had stayed the case, and he was just a regular season MVP, and even if he snuck in a championship, but every year was getting clamped in the playoffs, I get it. Now, I understand Dirk being better when it matters. It makes sense to me. But I think Yannis has overcome that. He's developed as a passer. He's gotten way more, I guess, hard to scheme for as a slasher.

He's not quite as one-dimensional running dunk man. His slashing abilities have really matured the way he can respond to pressure, can make the right pass, can finish over and around different types of coverages. I just think he's developed offensively to a point that. I think they're neck and neck as offensive players. Yeah, and if you, listen, I need to go back and look at it at my list for the top 50 because I look at you think that I might have put Janice ahead of there, but like, the whole Yeah, the whole Janus conversation, it's super weird and sometimes I do feel myself

kind of getting caught up into the fact that we haven't, outside of last year, like we missed two years of Janus in the playoffs. And so those things that you know Because like in the regular season All these great players Every year is going to be amazing So you start judging by playoff runs And doing all that

And so you have two years of data That's just lost for you honest And so sometimes I know that like That can get kind of into the back of my mind But I do think that Dirk is Dirk and like the carrying job Like if Dirk had a had a Chris Middleton

In his prime Like they could have A Chris Middleton That's really like a Chris Middleton he had no he had no nobody else and like he did they didn't make a finals in in 06 they obviously they they go back and they win it in 11 so like there are some finals appearances that or a another finals appearance that you can kind of attribute to that so it is what it is you looked up to listen yeah so you were remain consistent you did have dirk ahead of yannis all

time all right cool yeah and even you didn't i think it's totally fair over two years to change your pending on tough debates yeah okay next up from 10 through 6 I have Kevin Garnett at 10 Yannis at 9 Moses Polona 8 Nicole Yokic at 7 Akeem at 6

Wow Akeem feels low I think he feels exactly right I think that's like the only place you could possibly put Akeem unless you want to disrespect like Wilton Russell to old if you want to but yeah I think I think that's fine I mean if you're not disrespecting the 60s for whatever reason

No I mean I've obviously like it's it's not disrespecting the 60s it's disrespecting one man that's really it like we've given credence to Bob pett it we've given credence to well the only reason disrespect wilt is by quasi of disrespecting the 60s no I think it's

I think it's like there's there's the other guy that like just steamrolled over you yeah and so that would that would be the argument against wilt well guess what he's higher okay but uh

The hardest part for me, Yonis and Kevin Garnett, close. I think Yonis is just, I put, clearly I went Yonis, Garnett, Dirk. I think Yonis is slightly better. I just I just think he's a better player at his peak. I think he's a more well-rounded, all-time, great-level player that's just, has less, less weaknesses isn't the right wording, actually. It has stronger strengths than those two guys who also have magnificent strength. So not to say that, but I just think he's one of the best two-way players of all time.

Yeah, no, I 100% agree. Yonis is, like, his strengths have just gone nothing but stronger over the last three years. And he just continues to get better and better as a score, way more efficient as a score than ever before. Just, I looked at your list too as well. And when we did our all-time rankings, initially you had Garnett higher. And obviously, things have changed a little bit when it comes to Yannis. He hasn't won anything, obviously. But, like, he continues, he has had this, like, he's had one of the greatest peaks of all time.

I don't know where to rank it. But in my mind, it's immediately, like, bare minimum, I don't know, top 14-ish. he's like around that range when it comes to the level of basketball that he's been playing at now of course we ain't seen into playoffs for a couple of years like you said because of injuries and whatnot

but like the level of dominance is only an efficiency as well it's only comparable to one individual ever and that's someone who's way higher on all of our list obviously the only thing I would

I would say for this tier is Moses Malone should probably be above Yokic in terms of like resume they're both three-time MVP's both have one championship Moses-Belon beat the Lakers in his championship beat Showtime as a best player

on that team when Julius Irving was Whoa, Julius Irving was older Moses-Belon was the MVP on that team Best player And he just has a longer prime Because his career is over So Yokish doesn't have the stacked up accolades yet

He has eight MVP-level seasons Or like all-NBA seasons I should say And Mosulon is a 13-time All-Star So that should probably be a deciding factor But I was like, who gives a fuck? I think Yokic is the best office player of all time I think he's the greatest offensive peak I've ever seen and certainly among Biggs

I think he's the greatest offensive player on this list And at a certain point Sure, he doesn't have the 13 all stars yet He'll get there If we did redo this in four years He would have 12 all stars He'd be matching that and I have no reason No I feel no regret about just

I call it projection Call it assumption whatever it is We know who he is on that level He is neck and neck with the team Yeah okay I appreciate that Yeah it's not something We're just gonna pencil it in

right that's that's really truly all of this yeah assuming assuming the worst doesn't happen he doesn't blow out his Achilles if he just contends

to have his normal projectable career he will get to 13 all stars or whatever he plays five more prime years who may at this rate

he's a top two MVP candidate every single year maybe safe to assume I get another MVP at this rate I think he has to he definitely will

it won't be shocking at the very least he's gonna get multiple other top two or three finishes he's gonna end up having a run

that is unlike anything we've seen from the position outside of the top like two or three guys that are on this list for this reason where he has like eight straight years of being the MVP or second place or at worst case third.

Yeah. Which third hasn't happened yet. I'm just saying that it might happen eventually. Yeah. Can't get to three? I mean, he can't get to three. Like third place? Yeah.

Oh no, it's possible. I'm just saying like it hasn't happened yet. In this five year run so far, he's been first or second every single year. Okay, got to. So like, oh, I completely miss her with you. I thought you were talking about like top three all time. Yeah.

No, no, no, no, no. Okay. No, yeah. I'm saying that he will have a long run where he is first or second MVP every single year. There's only a few guys who have done that. So even though the defensive deficiencies are what they are, the longevity isn't there yet,

I don't care. He is such a singular force offensively. And everything you said about Dirk, not doing it without any all-stars or whatnot, never played with an all-star player ever. At this rate, it seems like he never got down will in his prime. There's no all-star in sight coming to his team.

He might end his career as the best offensive player ever that never had a single all-star next to him and he still got a ring. like it's just truly remarkable historical level of shit i agree i'm being my own ass right now not putting moses malone like higher at all higher at all yeah what did you do you do him last year yeah i'd put them in the last year i remember like right below ewing which is we'll see what you got now so ten i have david robinson nine i have dirk eight i have garnett seven yonis and six i have bill russell okay yonis at seven okay yeah so shout out yi

honest. So you got Yokish top five? Okay. Yeah, most definitely. Yokish over Russell. Yeah, most I think if like something tragic was to happen to Yokic right now, again, like knocking away, don't tear his ACL or blow his Achilles or anything like that. But if his career was to end already, I think we would all sit down. I think we would all sit down and look at what he's done and be like, yo, like, we know there's still, there's more meat on the bone. But for boy who was able to accomplish and the level at the two genuinely one of the greatest of all time and so i put him in the next year at this rate it seems like he's gonna have eight to nine years the best player in the world yeah how many players of all time have done that it's lebron

step not step no best player in the world okay so it's lebron is lebron jordan jordan it's kareem it's bill russell yeah it or not yeah definitive best player in the world and there's like an actual gap it is those guys yeah like that's what i mean like he's the guy like it's very rare to dominate a decade in the way it seems like he's doing as an individual and obviously you know it's not like jordan winning six rings or even bill russell or kareem winning all these rings because the ambage is different he wasn't drafted to these super teams like the first you guys that named from the 60s and 70s or actually kareem left and free agency to make the super team but you know he didn't have hall of famers next to him so he's not going to have the

rings to make that happen nevertheless this is the modern version of that of being that guy for this much time. Yeah. Okay. I agree. So I say it to say he's going to finish his career higher than seven, I think. Absolutely. I think if we were to redo this, I don't know, five years from now, he might be, he's

going to be top three. That's a lock for sure. Well, I can't say it's a lock, but I won't be shocked. He'll be hired in the king for sure. I think that's coming. I don't know, he needs one more accolade to make a clear cut, not a debate. Just the king gets a lot of respect and rightfully so, but he's coming for that spot. Okay.

All right, let's been one to the top five. Let's get to the top of this list. well who you got five yokech four hakeem three shack two td and one i got kareem okay that's the top three in some order undeniable i think those are the top three for all of us i'm sure i think i'll come up the top ropes for the keem o'clock i will see i will say when it comes to what was the hardest thing to uh have a conversation with by myself in my mind is talking about shack and hekeem i think Kareem is absolutely undenial. He's genuinely, at one point in time, he was the best player ever that we ever seen.

Now he's knocked down to number two. He's routinely going to be top three for fucking ever. He's like, the word Isaac likes to use Teflon as fuck. Tim Duncan, one of the most underappreciated NBA stars of all time. Well, also, I think all time too, he has the, he has negative aura because he lacks aura. He literally, that literally, in a lot of people's mind, reduces his greatness because if you think about it like everyone has some type of some type of swag to them in the game when it comes to mj whether it be the hoop earrings a bald the baldness

him sticking out his tongue or whatever kareem skyhook lebron countless things are you telling me that the bank shot doesn't have a word it does not have horror that is like easily the most orerless also he said the baldness for michael jordan exactly it's a thing bro like everyone has their their look their thing and tim dunk it just doesn't have much to hang his hat on but through all that. I think when it comes to talking about longevity, level of greatness, the defense, while also not being a slouch at all offensive v2 win, just continuously like elevating and molding his game as time has gone on. He solidified his number two. I think when it comes to talking about Shaq for me, whenever you hear anyone loosely casuals or like the super granular guys in NBA discourse,

the number one thing that people are going to be talking about is like, oh man, like such a Dominant 4 is one of the most ungarbable players of all time. They talk all about what he does offensively, but you don't hear shit. You don't hear a peep about what he did defensively. And that's when I went into my real work. And I looked at certain tape of him in a defensive game and one of the most underappreciated things about him because he's so great at one specific or a couple specific skills offensively.

It completely undershadows how good of a defensive player that he was. And I did not know how much of a. rim his ability to deter people away from the rim similar to what we see from guys like wimby today and also Rudy Gobert also earlier in his prime same exact vibe from Shaq no it just doesn't get talked about enough and when it comes to thinking about him as a top three player

or top three center of all time he firmly belongs it doesn't talk about enough because it's a he had a lot of arrows of defensive talents where he like he shifted a lot throughout his career in terms of like how much a defensive threat he was obviously early his career he was lighter more mobile he could defend you know but he wasn't he was a young player he wasn't quite the most like mature defender in a way that like he was like a keen was like a defensive genius

then what you're referencing like 2000 when he was like gigantic at his peak physical shape ridiculous shot blocking seasons was second in d p oi then when he got a little bit older towards the end of the laker's tenure into Miami came a little too big a little lazy defensively like you kind of saw that give and take over the years so that's why it's not really talked about because he doesn't have the consistent body work as a defender But at his peak, 2000, 2001, Shaq, that was a two-way, two-way great.

Two-way demon. Yeah. Okay. So that all makes sense. You put the older guys below. That is a worthwhile list. Five, I have Will Chamberlain, four Tim Duncan, three Bill Russell, two, Shaq, one, Kareem. I do not feel the need to pencil and Tim Duncan at two for sure.

Wow. Wow. Four is Tim Duncan. Wow, man. That feels completely fine to me. That feels totally fine. Wow. I can't have any real argument.

Because then I was sliding in, LeBron, and I would slide in Jordan, and that would be my top six of all time. And Tuncings sits in nice at six or seven. Okay. I mean, like, Shaq over Duncan, I obviously, I understand it. We'll tap five. I'm, well, what is a guy where it's like, you know, like the numbers are just so crazy and, you know, it's off the charts. At this point, Yogy's numbers are looking. looking scary and just like unbelievable at the same time where it's like I can't believe somebody

is this big and like can score in the way that he does can pass in the way that he does as well and I mean if you're talking about him as the greatest offensive player ever like I would I would have assumed that like Yokic would be above will in in that sense so like that's that's kind of the one like thing that if I'm nitpicking your list that I would would change but outside that like everything else is like defensible obviously you know what yokech will be a wilt when it's all sudden done but right now will it has four MVP's 10 all mbAs it just outlandish resume that like again for his era we understand the context of wilt in that like when he average 50 it was ridiculous volume right his stamina is insane which is a merit but if you look at like

per 36 minutes per se in five possessions whatever it's not the greatest volume scoring season of all time or anything despite the fact that he average 50 sounds so i'm not putting him up pie because the average 50. I'm putting him a pie because he was the most dominant individual for all those years. He's behind Russell because he was the most winning for all those years and also dominant himself also defensively talented himself. But Will it still is even when you apply all the caveats we understand still is an all time great offensive player still is an all time great score for MVP's won the chips later in his career when he started to play with other grades of that sort and kind of took back his volume and really

fit in next to Jerry West and you know became less of a black hole as a score. play through me so i think we saw the era of him in which he was the most dominant individual and then we saw the version of him playing another superstar of jerry west and where you got him in playing the right way and winning i think he checks both those boxes and individual and team perspective and as much caveat as you want to put on it average 50 still is an accomplishment even though it is air attacks or whatever all-time great volume score all-time great shot blocker insane athlete best for his generation i see no reason not to put him here. But again, I, like I said before, I do, I do think Yolkish is going to get himself

into Tinduckin conversations. So I think when it's all said and done, he will. But Wilt is good enough and has achieved enough and peak high enough that while I will put Yokic over Mosul's Malone and say, I assume he'll catch up to him. Will, it's just like an extra step that I'll say I'll give him the nod until Yokic does it. Yeah, I mean, and we all know like the 50 point in a season like that's Fugazi. And he wasn't, he averaged 15 was an MVP. That should tell you something. It's Fugazi. And I think that, like, if, if, if he's the wrong word, though.

It's Fugazi insofar that it's not the best season of all time. But he was still a dominant player. Congratulations. Like, no, like, no, it's, it's literally. You remember when Kat scored 60 and his coach was like, that's the worst basketball ever seen in my life? Yeah, because they lost. Yeah, like, it's the same version of that where it's like, congratulations.

Like, you did this, but nobody, nobody respects it. And so, like, that's what I'm going to... Nobody respects it as dramatic. That is very dramatic. Nobody respects it. He was second MVP lost to Bill Russell. They lost to Bill Russell in the playoffs. He wasn't a bum out there doing nothing.

He just wasn't the best player because Russell existed. To average 50 and... Think of... To average 50 and to not win is, like, the fact that you still are allowed to have holes in the argument when you are averaging 50 points a game and they're like now we have to give it to the other guy like no it it is Fugazi and I do think I do think that like the presence of Russell doesn't make it Fugazi the presence of somebody better does so let's say he's a second best player of a generation that so is Tim Duncan

you can make the argument for one for Tim sure and again if shack had 11 rings like Russell would be different like that the person above him is just different and more accomplished where Russell you can't poke the holes and the fact that like they were going to going literally like like you know they're going back and forth yeah um but like i i do think that like for yokic if yokic is and at least in my eyes he has three and a half MVP's him and a half him and a b can split right they can they can split that one but because but you know that like we've gotten what four to five MVP caliber year so far of yokage and even in the most talented era that the NBA has ever been in, the gap between, you said it last week, the gap

between Yokitin number two is, is, true, is sizable. And it's like, it's, it's a legitimate gap that you have to overcome. And he's very clearly the best player in the world. And so I think that, like, if we are already just going to pencil in, we know that we're going to get eight more years out of this or, or four more years, whatever it is. And we, like, we're putting all of this on Yokic and giving him the title of best offensive big men of all time. It's the same thing. Like when we're talking about lower in the list, where it's okay to make these assumptions when some guys just is just that much talent.

Yeah. It's just that talented. So for Yokic, I definitely think that in this sense and in this context, he has an argument to be top five. Sure. And I would do it. I would put him overwork, is the number one thing. Surprise, surprise.

Yeah. I do think he's worth noting in that conversation with Yokic being the best by far and not a second option. Worth noting Joelle and Bede lost his prime to injury who would be clearly in the same conversation and Yannis has lost two years

of playoff fronts to injury who is still in the conversation. So worth putting that caveat in there that he is the best. It's not some seismic golf. The other two demigods of generation are just dealing with injuries. Yeah.

So worth noting. I don't want to make it sound like it's Jordan being head and shoulders above everybody. He's slightly above the other guys and that slightly matters when you're talking about. these guys being slightly better in everybody for a long time matters a lot but it's not the

seismic golf i don't think we have to go that far it's not a but right now like would you would you think twice about no because of injury that's what i'm saying i'm yonis was healthy this this past year if you were starting the team right now would you even blink would you take yonis or yonkish the framing of that is like you're putting me in a framing that yes i'm taking yokch because i know i like yokech more no but the difference is that's what i'm saying like like forget take the salary cap off and no I understand that framing

yes I'll take yoga for sure but we're talking about 99 of Roll versus 98 so while I would clearly take the other guy the gap isn't gigantic but you know that's what that's what

that's what I'm saying but it's like it's such common knowledge of like yes he's he's one like it's not it's not a a debate one is you it's a

I think it's a is it a better debate of is Shay to over Janus. Is that a better debate than is Janus won over Yokic? I guess, but that's a matter of context

in that the bucks have the team perspective around him is crumbled and he just hasn't been the scenario to succeed with the dame of it all and how that's all gone and he got injured

the dame thing fell apart he tore his Achilles like yes because we've seen Shea win and Janus can't right now but that's not Janus's fault whatsoever. Do you have your pick?

Who do you have? Like that's what I'm saying with like I know what you're saying your statement is like true. I feel like it's a like it's a very not dishonest isn't the word. What am I thinking

about? It's a very um manipulative. It's a manipulative way to it's not it is not it's not because we know what are you going to say no no it's not but it's not though because if if we're trying to take context out of everything and just saying like one like we can we can build

a team in your image you have all the resources possible to where to where like whenever we're talking about who would you rather taking it's like oh well I have to have the right team construction and like he's making x amount of dollars and he's 31 and all and all this other stuff if you take all of that stuff away and i tell you you can have ex player you would have no salary cap and you can get whatever players to build around it who are you taking oh in that scenario yonis is right there yonis is a worthy consideration i'm picking yokech you know where i

stand but it's a worthy consideration i understand what you're saying and i think i'll fall into that category where i think it's not a massive gap but i think there's like something trustworthy and sizable for me in which I see with Janus and the history and the track record when it comes to injury

I don't have to think about injuries of Yokic he's Iron Man you know True that's a good point So it's like That's a very good point I that's why I lean towards Yokic almost immediately

So I understand what you're saying And I fall into that line I think when it comes to Like there's a gap But in my mind There's not necessarily a gap Because if they're going face to face Or whatever two teams

We're built around Yokich and Yonis I don't think you have necessarily a like humongous advantage you know yeah i think the injury that that's a good point that that could be the deciding factor so i understand i would fall into that category donovan he got is your top five i have hekeem at five i have shack at four i have russell at three duncan at two kareem at one okay so you swap duncan and shack for me russell's in the same place yeah that's that's like that's gonna be debate that rages on forever who you'd rather have like in terms of an all-time

ranking duncan and shack like it's just peak versus longevity essentially because they both have peak and both have good longevity one's like the best longevity and one's like the best peak but the others the others aren't bad in either facet so i understand that being a thought i just i just think shack's like the best player on this list he's he's he's he's yeah shack's great um i i i lean towards towards duncan because i do think that like the highs the highs of duncan and have him back-to-back mp's his ability to also like carry teams to two championships in like in in o three and be able to work with young uh young talent like tony park and like manu while they're still you know coming up trying to find themselves and the spurs every single year are

going to be contenders um and like you know that that they're going to be in it whereas like shack obviously like the the lakers were going to be great regardless right because shack is there and he's going to lift them to a to a certain spot doesn't doesn't hurt right? Like having, having Kobe there. And so I'm, I'm going to give Tim a little bit more credit just because he didn't have a Kobe Bryant on his, on his team. Like, we're like, Tony, Tony's not there. And, or, yeah, he's not there at that level. Manu is not there at that level. And it is more about a, about a system and this ecosystem and everything that we're building. And so I do understand that. But also, like, if you could put Kobe with Tim Duncan,

like it would have been cool but even even despite all that he's still individually great the team is still individually great you know what you're going to get and i i like that more than more than shack that's fair i don't like the reasoning of like he doesn't have kobe but i think what you're saying is like a fair takeaway but like yeah he doesn't have kobe but he has the single best infrastructure we could possibly imagine between coach gm co-star one co-star two constant great tool of role players around him like he also is not exactly in a bad situation You know came in with David Robinson too like there is a lot going for him as well outside of your one co-star, which is the best secondary co-star I've ever seen, but they both have kind of like peak supporting cast. Yeah. And you were saying like if they had Tim Duncan and Kobe, then they would also be successful. Yeah. They'd probably have the single best regular, the single best duo team of all time was dominant team before the Warriors and went three in a row, which they never did. Like they would probably equal to what Shaq actually did with it. So there's no argument that like he would do more with it. You know, so. Yeah, it's like a circular argument to me.

Yeah, and I'm not, I'm not saying that I think like the, the fact that they were able to get, even before the long drought and you go from, from 99 to 05 and you get four, do you get three rings in that span? Yeah. Yeah, because I think it's 07 and 14. So over eight years, you get four, right, from 99 to 07 and you're able to do all of that. I, I like that because, I mean, essentially, it's still. the same as a shack where you're getting shack you have the three p and then the the chip in in miami and even by the time he gets to the chip in miami like once the fall off starts to happen the fall off happens yeah he's he doesn't get 14 his old man yeah and so it's and so it's and so

i yeah i would have tim duncan over shack okay yeah i i understand that it just when it comes to your talking point the beginning of this conversation uh when it comes to talking about peak versus longevity. Obviously, Tim Duncan is one of the, he has one of the three greatest longevity careers of all time. And for me personally, when it comes to greatness, which like we said at the beginning of this video, it's wait, so many things weighed. And this is like, as you get higher and higher on this, this is where you become more and more nitpicky. And I guess a little bit more biased when it comes to certain things. And for me personally, yeah, I think I lean, obviously I lean your way when it comes to how this lays.

for me personally. Yeah. I'm always going to lean peak. I think longevity is the ultimate tiebreaker. So like we do the goat debate. Like I think longevity matters to LeBron because I think LeBron and Jordan have the two greatest peaks of all time.

So if like you're looking at two 100 overall players that are perfect for their role and perfect for all these things and do everything you could possibly want, yeah. I think longevity is a worthwhile consideration. I do think Shaq has a meaningfully better peak than Duncan. So that's why I'm like,

that goes into play before I get to the longevity, which we also treat Shaq like a four year prime where he also had, you know, 12-time All-Star. or he had a long run before the Lakers and then a few good years with the Miami Heat.

So it's not like he had a Embed level prime, you know? So that's not the differentiation factor for me. I'll lean towards peak being the differentiating factors and it'll be all because I feel like it's more impactful to, and I'm more impactful. I choose to view it more important to gauge the best players overall.

But it's also, it's clearly understandable to do longevity and do Duncanville. Legitimate question, do you think the gap between Hakeem and Shack is that massive? Or it was just like you just had to respect certain players. As far as why, half Akeem at 6 and Shaq at 2?

Yeah. When you're asking in terms of peak? Peak. And for what they were on the court. I think it's meaningful. I think Shaq is better. I think we do a lot of, we ignore a lot of the flaws in Hakeem's offense

because his defense is so great and because he's such a cool, like, unrated player that like, it's not like he was like the greatest score of all time or like he was a good pass. I've never heard anyone talk about the flaws in his offense. He's not the most efficient score of all time,

kind of a black hole, not a good passer. Like there's flaws there. Not to say I'm saying he's overrated or anything, but I think Shaq is a meaningfully better offensive player. And I think for those two specifically, it's like resume mostly, like three peeting and being slightly better and having more chips and equal individual success over your career. Resumet is probably the biggest differentiating factor there.

If it was just peak, they'd be closer than two and six, but I still have Shaq a little bit higher. Okay, makes sense. So it's like a two spot difference for peak and then a third for resume to make them different. Yeah. Okay, it makes sense. But I also don't feel like two and six

is a big gap for me. Like, two through seven are pretty close to me. Okay. Yeah, that's pretty fair. I can't, yeah, I'm not gonna hate too much on it. But also, shout out of Russell.

You know what I'm saying? Salute. Number three. Salute. Nothing. Oh, shout out, Kareem. We need to say a goddamn word about Kareem. Yeah.

It is what it is. He's the second most longevity of any star ever outside LeBron James. He has, five rings. Was it four MVPs or five repis? No, it's like six.

It's six VPs. God damn. It's something crazy. Six MVPs, the best player of the 70s, damn good in the 80s, continues over generations. She just checks all the boxes

you could possibly want from a career. Yeah. If it wasn't for the presence of LeBron James and Michael Jordan, this is a worthwhile goat in the sport. I agree. But goddamn those other two are good. Listen, man,

I can't wait to do this again in five years and we got Wemby top 10. Shut the fuck. I knew that was waiting to say, I was thinking because I was looking at my guys on number 30 when I had like Matumbo I'm like pretty soon when he's like on his list I'm gonna give it like he needs like one good playoff

run honestly if he gets like year four and he has like three time first team all NBAs in a row and has like a conference finals appearance when he's 25 I'm like oh he's clearly gonna be top 30 yeah it's not gonna take long that's funny as hell weird not far off shout out to the old man Cooper flag is on his way

oh yeah give you six years he's on his way shout out to the holes man well there we go that is our top 30 big man of all time year three of all-time rankings. This is my favorite one we've done. Never mind. First is my favorite one because I got us a million views.

I like that. I fucking hate this one. The second one that we did is my favorite one, talking about the guards. Yeah. Those confers were so nasty at the end. I'm tired of having Tony Parker

versus Reggie Miller discourse. I hated that. That's what I breathe, bro. The bigs is just, it just gets so muddy and sticky because there's so, when it comes to, I guess, question.

What the fuck? Anyways, question. What is the most talented position in the NBA? Center. What's number two? Point guard. Wait, like, like all time? Yeah, all time.

Like what we've seen. So center is by far the most talented. Obviously, for me personally. Honestly. I think centers are most talented. The top end of centers is obviously there. Point guards, though, it's like you can go 10 deep in point guards as well before. I think I would go point guards.

Well, I mean, there's like four top 10 players of all time or centers. Yeah. How are we doing? Are we doing it just like top 10 or top 30? Because if we go top 30, then I would say point guard is the most talented position. Yeah, I don't think I could lean that way because even like thinking about like all time conversations along with like a bunch of like the guys who are just below all time. conversations too. I don't know, actually.

I don't know, actually. Nevertheless, it's not for TikTok time. Fuck all time. Yeah, it's TikTok time. This is my favorite time, man. Shout out to Yills, though. Welcome to TikTok time. You know, today's a special episode.

We did another all-time ranking. Some we only do once per year. So because of that, I think we stay on the topic of all-time rankings of historic NBA talk, which is something we do in the off-season regardless. But I think we do it even more today and have that be the theme

throughout TikTok time. And to start that, today, we are going to pick the Mount Rushmore of NBA players for different NFL teams. NFL teams? Wow. This is not House Call, which just came out. Wait, did it come out today? Yes.

Well, yesterday for those lessons. Yeah, that's wrong. One more time. Today, we are going to pick the Mount Rushmore of NBA players for different NBA franchises. So, you know, we do this stuff before where we picked, like, the best players for a franchise, were the greatest players I feel like this is like its own thing

I feel like to be on Mount Rushmore it's like it's the most important players to a franchise yeah whether that's to the fans the team organization whatever that means

like who is like their guys that they hold close to their heart and define the organization it's like when where I say this team who are like

the first four people that you yeah yeah so it's not it's almost certainly not going to be their best players I mean

I mean honestly for a lot of teams like a lot of teams are not legendary like that sure sure it might end up being being your best

but for the famous organizations it's going to be a little more nuanced than just like their best guys okay so let's start with the very old famous organization 76ers okay who was on their Mount Rushmore Alan Iverson is a hundred percent on here yeah the fanfare like he is Mr. 76er even though they have they probably have four more accomplished players but they don't have four MVPs they don't have four players that loved

so Iverson yeah and obviously Dr. Jay yes you serving 110% used to be there even damn even more than Alan Iverson in terms of like NBA and how whilst widespread his impact was No, Dr. Jay is the greatest and most important six year for sure over Iverson. Yeah, most definitely.

I mean, they both have like immense impact world like NBA wide, but I think Dr. Jay is when it comes to his fan base and also like league wide too he should be like just a universal forefather of the organization. Do we put Moses Malone on there

who won the chip with Dr. Jay? So he's an MVP for the organization the same way as Iverson. I feel like maybe younger generations don't remember him the same way. He's kind of been lost in terms of fanfare, but he was the best player on championship team for them. I feel like we have to go there. But there's also Wilt, who is Wilt Chamberlain, you know,

figure had years of the Sixers. So, okay, so there's three guys that I'm thinking about right now, where it's Moses Malone, it's Will, and it's Charles Barkley. Yes. How? I always forget about Charles Barker for some reason. I just always associate him more with the sons, even though it's obviously not restarted.

Yeah. Okay, so I think It's fair if we go Wilk here Over Moses Malone Is it fair In terms of public consciousness It's fair Being a part of the championship team

Definitely helps It definitely helps It is like the conversation Like it is everything Like they don't have a ton of chips And he's the best player For one of them Would you rather go with Malone and Wilt

Or Malone and Barclay? I don't know. I honestly don't know how to parse that. Who means more to the 676th franchise? I feel like neither one of them being that much. I don't know. Like when I say that,

I mean, yeah, like compared to Iverson, compared Dr. Jay. Even compared to Moses, who, like, was there for a chip and was, like, the best player. Just because one didn't start there, one didn't stay there. You know, like, they drafted Barclay, right? Like, I guess it's probably Barclay.

let's yes they did draft barclay let's I would say let's go with moses and then let's go with barkley because even though he didn't win the MVP there there were some there were some some like ups and downs

and obviously like the weight stuff and him like getting himself in the shape and being and becoming a great player yeah like that that does matter to them though yeah yeah i think will and barcly both aren't most associated with the sixers even though they did have great years there I think Eileen slightly Barkley

that they probably remember him slightly more favorably. I don't know. Will one like, what? I think he won three MVPs with the Sixers. It means a lot. Question though.

For this new era, is there any argument about Embed being in the top four? Just because like for their entire process, he is the poster boy for the process. Yeah. And so like,

like the last decade and really even before that when they just start when they decide to start losing all of it comes together and to be and beat yeah he's the representative of the last 13 years of like philadelphia basketball i think we should go will over barclay i think you are three-time MVP is better than what barclay to even though and also yeah we'll won a championship with them in 672 yeah well 67 one is that when it was that is right right right yeah i think it is will over Barclay. I'm so drawn towards like I drafted you bias that does do a lot for fan bases

and Wilk came late in his career so I feel like I almost feel like that's probably like a LeBron Lakers situation but the Lakers also have a million legends the Sixers don't in the same way so I think Will I can say an argument for Embed I think there's an it's hard in the moment because so many people hate Embed and he's currently at his low

and a lot of Sixers fans like take him for granted and like criticize him there is a large swath obviously that loved him and adore him but that's a fan base that's like easy to piss off it's too mixed too volatile so I think we go well I think you're right I don't think we should pay too much bias to Barclay being drafted there I think Will is one of the four greatest players

definitely agree okay when he's on like the Philadelphia Warriors that that team go to San Francisco he was in the Philadelphia Warriors and San Francisco Warriors and then went to the Philadelphia 76ers so he was on both Philadelphia franchise at different times I wonder if you I don't know the when it was free agency at that time I think it was a free agency

decision I think that was like early days of that I wonder if he went back there because he wanted to go to Philadelphia again because they got a team again. I wonder if he's like Philadelphia. I don't know what went into that. Okay. Golden State Warriors. Step Curry.

Step Curry. From ground up. Hands down. Now, do we put either any of his co-stars? Yes. I think you have to put Draymond in there as well. If you put Draymond, do you also have put Clay? Like we agree, Draymond is like the better, more important player.

Obviously, it's a debate. I feel like in terms of adoration and how much their fan base rise for them forever. They're like equal. Are all three of them on Mount Rushmore? I think all three of them deserve to be on Mount Rushmore Unless you think there's an argument for someone else to argue It's like all three of them and like Chris Mullen or something I was gonna say Rick Berry

Yeah does anybody like Rick Berry is the thing I don't know I don't know no that's what I'm saying like Rick Barry is just notoriously people are like this guy sucks So I don't so I'm like I don't know if he is on the Mount Rushmore like that But is it very is it Too crayon either of us to just say like yeah the big three of the last like 12 years and then somebody well no it's by far it's their greatest era by far like this is the

air honestly is it those three will let me just go wilt again i don't know about man no no i don't know but it's not it's not crown eater at all to put those three because when it comes to thinking about like guys who built a organization from ground up like we said we talk about it time and time again here and there the words were like towards the bottom of the league when it comes to relevancy and importance to the history the warriors are a middle of the the tier middle of the pack franchise for their entire organization they have ups and downs they have ups like every team does but they are not a premier organization until these three walk in the door and make them the new eras bulls they are now one of the three most valuable

teams in the league because of them i think is those three in wilt so i think i might go like see i don't really want to go will the only time before like the the warriors came through like you knew that that the stadium and like oracle was like awesome and the fan It's called it the aurorical, man. That's how impactful. And like the two errors before that that have like actual like fan love would be the We Believe Warriors and then Run TMC. What, you want to go Godatamonte Ellis?

You want to go Baron Davis? No, no. Like, but the we believe is like a very singular thing. And then run TMC is more of an error. Obviously they didn't accomplish a lot. But like when you think about the highs of the franchise and things people still, you know, grasp on to somebody from that era, I feel like should be represented. But I will score 100 for them.

Like, you know, like, If there's going to be a Wilt representation, I feel like it should be them. Like, that was his first team. That's where he did all the ridiculous numbers. Like, that stands a test of time. I bet they have pride in that. Do they? I don't know.

I mean, you hate Will's so much. You want to go to go to Chris Mullen. I think both are respectable. Yeah. I might want to lean towards Wilt because it's one of the most iconic moments in the NBA history. But is that more about Willt in himself rather than, rather than like a fan basis, maybe. Towards an actual error that they remember.

One, it's hard for us to have that conversation because you, don't know a single person that remembers Will on the fucking 60s so they're all fucking in retirement homes. Nobody's seen that game. It's the problem. That's why we can't have discourse about it. It's because they're in retirement homes.

But I do think it's probably Wiltz. Chris Mullen, if they had like one, like Chris Mullen's a five-time All-Star, it's not like it's like a legend. I think Wiltz,

even if there is more individual than team success there, which there is clearly, I think Will Lullen isn't quite. What's the nickname for Wilt's era? Again, they're in retirement homes. I don't know. If you have bad branding,

I can't give it to you. What's the nickname for what's here? I'm not talking to 80-year-olds. I'm not aware. Oh, my gosh. I'm out here talking to the 50-year-olds to the 60-year-olds. I'm on the ground. The 50-year-olds weren't born yet.

They were telling me about it. Their grandparents are watching Will. They were telling me about it. You're crazy. Oh, no, I was talking about for Run TMC. Oh, okay. I was going to say, this is unbelievably long ago. The Toronto Raptors.

Kawai. Lowry. Does Kuai get there for one year? He got the only chip in, yes. But, like, for Route Rush Wars, like, fan love. You know, I think they do rap for Kaui, though. I think they do appreciate him. I think it's a franchise that has such little history because it's such a young team

that like they appreciate the fuck that out of Kauai for giving them that one year. Exactly. Absolutely. I would go Kauai and Kal Lauri are one and two. And then DeRosen also has to be on there as well. And then Vince Carter? I don't know. But didn't they were recent retired?

They did. They like made it. They made up. Yeah. He went out sad, but they got over time heals all and it healed off for Vince Carter. Was was his crying meme at that one or the Nets jersey was? Because he got his jersey retired at both spots

I don't know which one I was from I can't remember I don't remember I would guess I was probably the Nets he probably cares more about the Nets

I would guess I don't know though I don't remember where it's from I mean everybody kind of hates him I know I know

but neither one of these franchises it went out well with but okay so it's Vince probably over Bosch and there's no other like premier role player

I can think of that like has to be on there of like meeting so much of the team like maybe if Siakman never left they never traded him and they kept him for a long time

that could have been, like, guy who was your development story, he wanted to ship with you as a role player and developed into a star, all-N-B-A player for you. But since they traded him, probably not. That's the type of storyline would have had to have been, like, career ends were there. Yeah. Okay, I like this four. Okay.

And, you know, this one is their four best players of all time. Now, the one we're doing this four. Obviously, the main character is the hardest one to do. The Los Angeles Lakers. This is the one where their best player, like LeBron's not on there. At all. It can't be. Kobe and Magic are on there.

One and two. Those are the only ones that are locked to me. Because I think there might be other names that come to you as a lock. Low key, they're all debates now. I don't know if Kareem is a debate. Shack's a debate. Damn. I forget he did have those early Milwaukee years.

So you have. It was meaningful there. So you have Kareen, Shaq. And to me the lock that. Jerry West? I think Jerry West has to be a lock. Oh, for sure. For Mount Rushmore, the fact that he was player, coach, GM, all three,

present at basketball operations, that everything for them, birth every single Georgia. And every generation of success touched Jerry West's hands in some way. I think he has to be on there. Put Jerry West here. Easy. Yeah, easy. And then again, it is Kareem and Shaq.

They both came as free agents. They both gave you success right away. They both got multiple chips. Between Kareem and Shaq. Kareem retired there. Shack went out with the feud with Kobe and Kobe's the most adored player. I feel like in terms of fanfare,

Karene probably has a little edge up there. This is, I mean, this is your alley, though. Were they fighting about Shaq? Were they fighting about Shaq? When you were four years old? I think... Were the streets still upset? I think my mother was probably upset at Shaq.

I bet she was mad in 2004 at Shaq. And I bet my grandmother was not mad at Manette and Karim when he retired. So I think we can go, Karim. Okay. But that's the close. Is there anybody we're forgetting? I mean, like, I don't know. Like, we're not putting LeBron on there.

It hasn't been... But low-keyed Lebron's on there for a long time, and he chose to come there. as the greatest player of all time. So he probably has more credence that we're giving him. But Kareem and Kareem wants so many championships there. Yeah. If LeBron won like two more,

two championships there, two chips there, then it would be a little bit more an argument considering how big of a drought it was and how much in despair you guys were during the 20, not the 2013 season, but 15, 16, 17, you know, I think he would be there.

But keep in mind, the greatest player of all time chose to come there when he didn't have to and he might retire there, play 10 years there. That does mean a lot. For most teams, it would be Mount Rushmore, but it's hard to craft it like to Mount Rushmore. Yeah.

But that does mean a lot. Like, he's staying there and retiring there across multiple generations. He did go ahead and eclipse Kareem there as well, which is one of the five most iconic moments in history. So again, we're not doing it, but absolutely. There's a conversation. Hey, if he goes ahead and wins a ring with Luca,

hey, man. I guess I could, maybe, but. Amen. I'm not necessarily projecting that's going to happen. I'm not either I'm a snake wild The minds I'm hating hard

As always The key him is obviously on here James Hardin Is on here Yeah and like He requested a trade Didn't go out Super well

I guarantee you 10 years No one's gonna give a shit About that He's gonna be a rocket's legend They love him They're over it Mosin Malone Has to be on here

Yes That's true Probably their second best player Of all time That people just give it to Hardin I wrote Hardin I wrote Rockets What the hell

Now who gets the last spot Moses Malone So there is Just some Evan Hay stuff There's some Rudy T Because they love Rudy T Okay deep in your bag It low key

It low key might be Rudy T Got his face Broke up And then it came back He was coaching the team as well Like Okay Is there any yamming possibility

As somebody who defined The 2000s He was such a like Fun and Roof War player That like They loved him in Houston. But I don't think he's like on the Mount Rushmore, though.

They loved him in Houston. Rudy T. Rudy T. Hey, can I interest you and, uh, listen, Louis Scola has some years, man. You said Louis Scola? They love Louis Scola. Louis Scola was, because when Y'all mean was out here getting hurt, Scola was out here. Hooping.

Yeah. I don't know who to put here. Yeah, I generally don't know who will. Elvin Hayes didn't have his best years there, but he's one of the better players to play for them. Does team make have any room to sniff this conversation? No. No. Do you want to go Rudy Tee?

Because the fans love him like that? Low key, I'm telling you. Okay. It's either like Rudy T or Scola. We'll go Rudy T. Okay. My Rudy T bag is not that deep, but you as a resident Estonian, I'll believe you. I'll believe you that Houston rides for Rudy T.

I promise you, I've seen a lot of Scola jerseys. Really? Yeah. I hear you right. Spurs. Quick one. This is Duncan. This is Wemby.

This is Wemby. Two players. This is the Iceman. He belongs here too. Yep, Gervyn. And even though he wasn't there for the championships, Gervin was like the original superstar for the team. Yeah.

And then just put the other two guys up there. Put Tony and Manu. You don't put David Robinson up there? Oh, I forgot about him. Would it be... That's a good conversation. Would it be Robinson over Gervin? Okay, so Monu's there.

No. Mono is there. No. Gervon has to stay. Who's more love? Manu or Parker? Who gets a lot. It's probably Mono.

Because he stayed there. out everything. Yeah, they love Manu. He, like, sacrifices a team. He embodies Spurs culture. Tony Parker did some unforgivable things. And also, too unforgettable things.

He went to the Hornets? Hold on. Damn. Yeah, but listen, he didn't do those things to the fans, right? It don't matter. And he impacted the fans, though. And they still won.

They won. Okay, Tony P. Tony P was there for the whole Duncan era was a part of that whole longevity superstar era. God of finals MVP. God of finals MVP. David Robinson is a superstar. their third best player of all time like he should be on that over tony p yes but then again

over gervin no i've got to be there i mean so duncan won a championship there i mean david won a championship there with duncan gervin doesn't have that but gervin's a better player gervin's like an all-time great but but i thought we weren't doing no i am i am i am but like that was like spurts history before these guys like he is a major part like he was their superstar i imagine that means a lot to them yes but then more history happens and we get Okay. And we get... I'm looking at that

and I'm hearing this and I'm like, damn, maybe Manu shouldn't be here. No, he has to be here. Manu is there. I already wrote him. I know. I'm saying maybe he shouldn't be here.

Lokey. I think the Spurs is such a winning organization. They love him though. It's kind of the Lakers. Maybe you have to be the champions because this championship to air means so much of them.

Maybe we do go Duncan, Robinson, Monu Parker and say Gervon's gone. Damn. Okay. Just for Mount Rushmore. Damn. Yeah, maybe that makes sense.

Yeah. And Tony Pek gets the last spot. Clippers. not a great history here shout out to Chris Paul and Blake Griffin and DeAndre Jordan and J.J. Reddy

Does Kauai get a look? No. Hell no. He can't at all. I'm putting Pat Beb on this Mount Rushmore before I put it. So Bob McAdoo is on here. Bob McAdoo is the only lock I think.

Do you go Chris Paul? Chris Paul's a lock too. Okay, Chris Paul, go ahead. I just wasn't there for that long, went out. I don't know. Chris Paul's a lock and so. was Blake Griffin too. Is Blake Griffin a lock?

A lock. A lock. Especially after how how dirty they did him. Yeah. When they put his jersey in the rafters and then traded him. Yeah.

Like you, he is he is one of those guys. Last spot. Low key, this is probably where the famous role players going. It's probably Elton Brand for the last spot. Like the whole 2000s when they were just dire, like he was so beloved there.

Like the same way Nick Collison's loved by the Thunder. Imagine he's like a better player. Imagine he's like a better player. Elton Brand is that for the Clippers. Because they have some other better players. They have Kauai. They have Paul George. They have stars that, like,

didn't leave their mark. It might be Elton Brand. You know what's crazy? What? Could have been Shea in that spot. It should have been Shea. Tragic. But yeah, we're putting Elton Brand.

Okay. No Danny Manning? I don't know a damn thing by Danny Manning, and I won't pretend that I'm good. I won't pretend that that's not a lapse in my knowledge of the history league. I don't know a fucking thing about him.

Give me 10 facts about Danny Manning right now I just don't know. I can't tell you 10 things about Devin Booker right now. Orlando Magic. Dwight. Do we go Shaq

even though it was only four years? Yes. Because they got to the finals with Shaq. They did, okay. And it was still a young team. I think Penny Hardaway is still up there.

Yeah, probably Penny. You had no players after Dwight deserve to be on here. Yeah. So we'll go Penny. Damn. Damn. You're right.

Not a soul after Dwight deserves me on here. Jamir Nelson. I got news for you, buddy. Yo, Palo Bank camera, welcome to them not much more. He's a number one pick. Like, they don't have a lot of other all-time great. Like, there's such a young franchise. They don't have the time to.

They got Shack and Penny right when their organization started. Then they lost them. Sucked for a little while. Got Dwight, had the little era, have been downtrodden since. Is it like Dennis Scott? It's probably fucking Vucevich. No. I'm not putting moose bitch

Who do they ride for? God damn horrors Grant Do they love Rashall Lewis like that? Grant Hill chose to go there Oh, Tracy McGrady Oh, T-Mogg was there? Is Tracey McGready number four? There you go, yeah.

Okay, T-Mack? Yeah, T-Mack had good years there. He got sold by lack of health around him. I said Jem-N-Mah. Yeah. I just forgot about T-Mack. Okay. Jamir Nelson.

Miami Heats. Shout to D. Wade. That is his franchise. Yep. His franchise, his county. His county. Miami morning? Yes.

Two MVP caliber seasons for them. Was there for a while? Was it stayed for the championship as a role player? He still works there. He still works there. Low key. Edonis Hazem has to be here too. Sorry.

He ain't it, but he has to be here. Yeah, Hazam was on there. Last spot, we could go LeBron. You know, they got the best player at his peak, came and got them more rings. I wouldn't even say LeBron. Went out sad in terms of his relationship with Pat Riley. Jimmy Butler took them to two finals in an era in which they should have fucking terrible.

He came and saved that franchise single-handedly. It just ended poorly, but they'll get over that, I think, long-term. I would say, I'm not, I'm not going to,

uh, Braun. I'm between Jimmy Butler and Bosch. I'm not going to, boss at all. Because I think the fact that like Bosch is, the fact that Bosch stayed after,

after LeBron left and that his career got cut short, that in itself, that like little mini era could probably boost it. I lead Jimmy Butler. I think the way that he carried that era and made them go

from irrelevant to two final strips, I think Butler is a worthy pick. That's okay. I don't know. I feel like LeBron might be more worthy than Butler because he actually got it done and he got it done through like the most, after having

the most embarrassing moment that any team, but this is not, they don't like him for leaving. They hate him for leaving. Like, Pat Riley hates his guts. Yeah. And I don't think this is not about, this is much more about the journey rather than like the economy. But he had a journey within himself too, I guess. But that's more about.

Okay, not really. There's really no journey at all, actually. Yeah, they got their ass, not stomped out, but that's embarrassing 2011. And they got embarrassed in 2014. Yes, exactly. Half the time they got clapped. Oh, that's true. They just lived, little expectations.

They did get clapped in 2014. Yeah, yeah. It's only four years and it's 50% successful. Nobody had ever lost the finals as bad as they lost the finals. Generational ass-women. But Denver Nuggets. Obviously, Yokic. Alex English, number two.

The best player of the 1980s. True. Where Mello at? Does Carmelo deserve a spot, you think? Let's do it. They gave his jersey away immediately, so I don't know. Yeah, like, I would think Mello probably, like, you would think he definitely, like,

deserves a spot. I'm out of Rushmore, but maybe he's the fact he's overshadowed by Yolkich. I'm like, you see Mr. Nuggets? Let's pause and let's think about who else would take those spots. Yeah, yeah. Jamal Murray, does he sniff this conversation?

Hell no. Hell no. Like Matumbo? They might love him because they damn your Matumbo, Aaron Gordon, Mr. Nugget. Aaron Gordon, get the fuck on it. Once you get called Mr. Nugget, it's like, amen. Dan Issel, fat, lever.

Oh, David Thompson, Skywalker, early days. Clay Thompson's dad? I don't know that David Thompson means more to Lakers than Carmelo. I mean, I don't know that David Thompson means more to Nuggets than Mello does, though. I think Marlowe has to be up here. Okay, something to go Mello and David Thompson. Dan, Jamal, they say they don't love you. Why the fuck would Jamal be on here?

What do you mean? No, all-sars? You don't. Aaron Gordon don't have no all-stars, too, and he's named Mr. Nuggett, different reasons. Exactly. because they just like him more. Do they like him more? Because again, the journey's beautiful.

Mr. Nugget. The journey is beautiful with Jamon Murray, too. Like, he literally... He was about to tear his hamstring off the bone just to play in game seven. Like, they, like, Eric Gordon is loved. Chicago Bulls. I don't know, man. Michael Jordan.

Jordan. Eric Rose. Omer Ross. You think Derek Rose is on there? Like, for fan love? Hell yes. Derek Rose. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. He loves him more than anybody's ever loved anybody. Yeah. So are we giving him, like, it's purely fan love for him? Are we giving that to him?

I mean, it doesn't matter what way you want. You know, just longevity, I'm not saying. It's not, the peak isn't there, but no, he's, he's definitely on there. How many Chicago Bulls in history ever won an MVP other than MJ? It's probably just those two. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure it's just those two. Mike.

He won't MVP for the Bulls? Did he? I don't know. I don't know. Pippin. Scotty. Yeah, Pippin is there a whole time. I don't think Robin has to be on here, but Pippin does.

He's there for all six rings. What about Joe Keem Noah? I was sure. Soled at him. It would probably sooner go Rodman than Jo Kim Noah? It feels like it just has to be people from the 90s. Yeah, because they have other good players. Like you can go artist Gilmore if you want or something like that.

But Rodman wasn't like a bread there though. He was already... He's only there for half the chips. Yeah. Only half the chips. Only three chips. Like he's... They got a lot of them.

I don't know. That's what I'm saying. So, I mean, Robin could be up there. I almost might say Joaquinawa because of emotional reasons. I think that's... probably just a matter of our age, though. I don't think that those are, like, historically super impactful emotional reasons. I feel like, just in terms of like, you were drafted there, you went through deep playoff

runs and all that, had plenty of... Fuck it, Louisville, all day. I kind of... Hell no. He was better than... Just put Phil Jackson up there. Yeah. Coach, most what Dennis Rodman.

We'll just call it a day. The three nucleus is of their greatest team of all time. That's fair. Last one, Portland Trailblazers. So clearly, you... have Damien Lillard on here because he's arguably the best player

And now he's to finish his career there It's beautiful. Oh yeah Oh, he did go back home. He went back and we only forgot. Clyde Jettler. Clyde. He's there.

Does the Marcus Alders belong here? I don't know. Probably not. It sounds crazy. It's not crazy like it sounds like it Yeah. But probably not. The way he left is so damning.

The way he left as soon as like you felt the old shit like Lillard's fin and snatched the fuck out of my chain. I don't know if he belongs here. But I would, Bill Walton. Oh, yeah, he definitely, he belongs, sorry. Yeah, Walton's number three.

Yep. Yeah. And then I guess we've got to go Scoo Henderson. Highest pick they've ever had. Greg Godin. Yeah. So, all right, so, so we can go the, we can go a couple options here. We can go with the love that they never got to fully see to the end with Brandon Roy.

Brandon Ward. Oh, Brandon Ward is a fantastic. They love him. go Terry Porter since he was on the team that made the finals. We can't put a what if on here, like for him, Brandon Roy. They do love him, but why not? That's like, that's a different level in Mount Rushmore

Love, I think. I would sooner put Lamarcus Alders on here than Brandon Roy personally. I think with the way things ended with Marcus, he don't belong. I don't know if they ended as bad as you think. I don't think Portland hates him for life. They're retire his number. They were, I don't think

they were. I don't think they were. With the way he left the free agency. Yeah, because he was like He wasn't like go kill yourself He just left Like it wasn't like it was like he hates everybody You leaving is telling them to go kill themselves Yeah like right when you have a star

Right when you have a star point guard on your hands too And then you go to do nothing He went to go play with Kauai It wasn't crazy They didn't oh nice You won 60 games first You did nothing The outcome isn't the point

It was just like It was an understandable decision to go there No because you felt It felt like like he said Yeah You saw the writing on the wall And you were like I can't let this young guy come in

and take my chain. I'll give my chain away to Kauai, but I won't have it taken. I don't think that's why he left. I don't think he left out of this day. No, he was insecure.

Couldn't handle changing times. So he left. Let me see you step foot in Portland. Okay. Brandon Roy is. Next thing we're going to do. We're going to do a tier list. We're going to do a tier list

of the greatest second round picks in NBA history. Woohoo. So all the stars that make up Emba history that were selecting the second round From across history, wow, that just That was the most pointless sentence I've ever said of my life

Roundabout Way saying, I got some modern guys on here I got some recently across some other areas All across the league Where do you guys want to start? Let's just set the baseline Let's put Nicole Ikech S-tier The greatest second round pick of all time And there's no competition.

Honestly, I think he's alone in S-tier I don't think we should put anybody else up there Yeah, I was thinking about it Like who else could be there But it's like If one guy is winning three MVP Yeah, yeah There's nobody that deserves

To be within tracking distance of him Yes And listen, A tier is also impressive But nobody else is up there with him What do you guys to do with Jalen Brunson Jalen Brunson? He probably belongs in A tier It's A or B

He's had playoff runs as the guy And he's a top 10 player Let's come back to him actually Because we need to lay a baseline Monaginobly A tier that is their day tier wasn't never like the guy in a team but so much sustained excellence is an incredibly important part of the team there's players on here that are probably a little bit had more responsibility but nobody's more accomplished and and it's also like just generally accepted that if manu needed to do more he could have yeah he sacrificed for his team like his and brownie points okay mark us all uh DP OI it is stolen but it's okay he has a championship he was a like top 10 center in the league for a very long time all-star level player

great defender like probably top 30 defensive player of all time is he offensively good he's probably b i think he belongs in b is he he's not better all time than or on the same level all time as manu no no moner just has so much accomplishment to him and like like always we're balancing how good they are and their accomplishments like all those things yeah i think monu has like utmost legacy points like peak peak legacy points you could possibly have I feel like even with Marcus all like the legacy points of being I guess it's more singular to Memphis but like being a part of that like grit and grind like that yeah that is very big legacy that's a fun team that we remember it didn't like do

anything you know like it's not in terms of like historically significant yeah they got to the conference finals no shout out of cool era but it's not like historically significant that we got to like yeah he took grin and grind to the finals yeah exactly I think when it comes to talking about Mark Gassall and his impact in the league his him and his error and stint are like a third layer of NBA conversations

no one's actually sit down and talking about like man like you ran this like no he didn't run shit at all I'm a huge Marcusol respecter though so I think B tier is good I love Mark

I think his ability he's getting to B tier even though he didn't really leave a mark on history per se like some of these guys but his abilities for a second round pick

to be a star like this worthwhile be if you're an all start to me like you're damn you're guaranteed to be B true Draymond Green I think he's 8 tier

for sure yeah I think he'd be the one that's like pushing on S if you want to talk about legacy points what you do for the team what you do for the league everything you encapsulate as a player and his abilities one of the greatest defenders of all time has offensive skills the perfect compliment to the best offensive player we've seen in his position in step curry a tier i want to put a mess but it would look crazy if at the end of this is

just yokech and drayette no what a huge gap we've already decided nobody's stuff in yokish he is his own tier if there's ever been a tier list that deserves to have a one singular person is this one this is probably the most unbalanced tierless ever with one guy above the rest so we've done probably unless you're talking about It's more of like a pyramid than a tier list. Yeah. Unless you're thinking about like a team that has like one top 10 player all the time and nobody else. And I can't even think, can't even remember who that would be.

A magic tier list. Shack's probably singular. I should know because then Dwight's there. Whatever. Yeah. Gilbert Arenas. How do you compare Gilbert Arenas to Marcosol? Markesal is better, I think.

But the, the peak of, I think like Gilbert's peak and him being an all NBA player and being this like future. or typical type of point guard where you are just going to go out and get buckets. Very true. It's very fun, but also the prime just lasted so short that I feel like we have to go see. Yeah, I was thinking see as well. Because it's like the prime lasted short

and then you came back and did what you did. So we kind of have to go see. Marcus also has a ring. You know, it wasn't as one of the more important players, but he has a ring. Yeah, I mean, it was damn more pivotal for that. I don't know if, I'm not going to say,

I don't know if they don't want a ring. But Jonas Valenzuela was the starting center there. And they realized that that was a fucking problem. They needed more of a presence. And so he made a difference. Yeah, definitely the diversity B&B. I know I said if you're an all-star, you get to B-tier. I lied.

I changed my mind immediately. Gilbert Rina is a C-tier. We can have all-stars and C. That is fine. I mean, it changes when you're committing felonies. On and off the court. Pre-end post-retirement. What are we talking about?

Okay. Chris Middleton. He might be C-tier. could be teetering B though Low key I'm thinking like D I feel so He's a he's a he's a good player But like I don't think like

You're right you're right He's he's good Giverrines is better But Chris Middleton did have a year Where he was a pivotal part Of winning a championship He just did more because You know if you got drafted Xionis

And not drafted trade to beat Xionis And Gilbert didn't So not his fault But he played an essential part Of winning a championship He did but that But that's also because like One like he did the stuff

He scored 40 in the finals give him. I do want to give him all that credit. His co-star at the time was also running Dunkman and needed somebody to take those shots. He did it, but he was never an overwhelming score in the way that like Gilbert was. So I think on like just talent,

that's why I'm putting them in a different tier. To quote Donovan Smooth, at a certain point, we had to pay respect to what the people accomplished on the court and Chris Milton, again, second option on championship team. All right, fine. I guess that's fine. I'm not saying you should be above Gilbert. I agree for what you're saying that he's better. But I feel like if one's a little bit, one's better,

It's not like Gilbert Arena is like a first-time NBA player. It's not like he's exceptional. Yeah. You know, so I think he's better than a guy who's barely an all-star, but accomplished less. That feels like even to me. I think you both have the same amount of all-stars. Gilbert Arenas does have three all-N-BAs to his name. But Chris has medal to his name too and also.

Metal to his name. What do you mean metal? Ring. Yeah, he's a ring. Oh. That's steel. Yeah. I thought he said like, like, Olympic thing.

No. I was like, are you playing like the people war? I'm not talking about that year they sucked And they didn't win Yeah I mean he was a part of the reason But anyway Dennis Rodden I know we asked the job

You lost the World Cup I can't respect Kevin Duran When I see you Dennis Rodman Does he belong in B as well Actually no I feel like for

For somebody who is as influential and impactful To the bulls And to the pistons And multiple like Dynasties Or just like iconic eras

he kind of has to be a yeah you probably got to be right next to draymond honestly yeah i got i think jermine's a little bit better for things we talked about in the episode today but everything's striking distance of each other similar mold yeah definitely yeah i had him right next to each other Isaiah hardinstein

the newly minted champion i say ardenstein champion champion of us on a starter champion a starter on a champion definitely detere for sure could we could have f conversations just because like these are is he the worst player on here

uh it's it's it might be a tie it's a tie but he won a championship as a starter. I will say, if I asked the question, is he the worst player on here and we can confidently say, like, it's a tie, yes. We might have to put him in F. Okay.

Yeah. That's more a matter of who I picked rather than anything. They got the little meta. But okay, we can go as a Hartzine F tier just because they're all good players. Yeah, he's a great player. Somebody has seen the bottom.

Fred Van Vleet. Is he better than Riley Hartzine? Yeah, he's, he won a... He made an all-star team. He did make an all-star team. He did make an all-star team the year after Kuala-Laf. when they still maintain relevancy post-Kauai and were, like, surprisingly good to that couple of people.

Yeah. Let's put him in D. Because he also was like, look, Hartstein was great for the team all year. But there were times where like they weren't really playing them, even in the finals. Yeah. Van Bleet was hitting shots.

Yes. Key part of 2019. He's a pillar to, he's been a pillar to two different teams in his career. Like one of the most important factors. And Isaiah Hardinstein is simply not that at all. Yeah. And listen, sometimes Rockies fans kind of hate him.

but important part of their turn around. Exactly. Alex English. Also. A tier. Immediate A tier. The only, besides Yokes, probably the only superstar on here.

Whoa. What? Superstar. Alex English? Yeah. Tell me is a superstar. All the Famer. No, that's not what I'm saying.

Carlos Boozer. Oh. B. Tier. B. Tier very solid. I think Marcus Hall is meaning to be better than Carlos Boozer. But I don't know, College Boozer did have some years on the jazz. Like, I feel like he's like, I don't feel like he's C-Tier.

He's just one of those inconsequential All-Stars. Like, the 2000s, like, there's just guys that you just, like, forget about. Yeah. I'm taking Carlos Boozer. I'm taking Marcusal's career or Boozer. And I think at their peak, I'm taking the defensive acumen and spacing of Markisaw. Yeah. But is your beard crispy?

I mean. Is it, come on. I'm just saying he got it crispy. There is a sharp line there. By any means necessary. What is the process to that, though? And I... You know what, no, no, no, no.

We don't put enough... I like that. We don't put enough respect and called Boozer's beard game. It's like Barry Bonds. Before the PEDs, he had good beard. Yes. There was a prime there before he decided to cheat.

And even though that I don't like cheating, like just in general, sometimes you're so outlandish with it. I have no choice but to respect it. Because it's like, if you're going to live like that, go ahead. Do what you want to do. Kyle Corver. F. Easily F.

Shout out Kyle Corby. That's one of the greatest shoes of all time now. Ben Wallace I think he's below a tier I mean if we put Rodman if we put Rodman

in 8th well Robin has four time DPOI won a championship as either the best player or one of the core they're all similar good levels we can go

we got it's fine yeah we can go eight year eight years packed four time DPOI is insane eight tier is packed her now is there anybody but none of them should be like that makes sense

Marcus all being right below them makes sense to me so so it's a weirdly it's a weirdly distributed list but it's making sense. Yeah. And last one at least, Jaylon Brunson.

Aha. I'm going to A-tier. I think to go from where, from where obviously the second round picks, but he's had deep playoff runs. He has had good playoff runs. He is an all-MBA player as well. I think offensively like,

offensively he's been as good as you can ask, as you can like reasonably ask of somebody. He's an all-star best player on a team that's like making finals runs. They're making pushes. They're a threat in the conference. They're not necessarily like going to win a championship. I don't think that probably never happened. But they are a relevant team out there and he's them.

He's the engine of that team. I do feel like also the jewelry though in a tier. Like those guys are all decorated but they're not the guys. Yeah. I think I mean, their careers are over. Let's just wait another five years and see what happens. Yeah, I know about anybody. But I think.

Jaylen Brunson has also been a-tier for slightly different reasons. He's been, of course, like, top 10, 11 player, back-to-back years. And then on top of that, so you almost even want to drop him an F. But anyways. My only hesitation is Markers-Law's B-tier. Markers-Law is probably also like the 11 best player in the league for some years. Also took the team no conference finals. But did he sacrifice money like Jalen Brunson?

He's dumb. That's not my problem. I'm almost wondering if it's like the same resume as Markersoll. Man. Like, I appreciate, I think Jalen Brunson, maybe you tell me he's a little bit better. Okay. But I almost feel like it's comparable to Marcosol and it's a real similar resume. But mind you, Marcosol did that over a career.

We're talking about what's been going on in the last. This man, he's pushing 30. In the last two, three years. Jaylon Brunson's pushing 30. He's 28. He's pushing 30. He's turned 29. Yeah.

Relax. He's about 1029. I, low key think B tier is probably the answer. He's not want to go A. Yeah. I think if he made the finals, then he could be eight easily. Yeah. So far, I just haven't there yet.

There's a lot of players of course history that like, at this point, like, I mean, it's a, at this point, he's at this point, he's on a good team in terms of like a few years of, like, being really good and talented. He's just on a slightly better team that's making it further than the playoffs. And he's not a felon. Like, that's why he's your hires. Yeah, he's not a felon. But I do think, Brunson will get eight years here.

You can't play in the NBA in a jail cell. And Brunson is nowhere near that. He's a good podcaster. I'm putting him in ATU. I do think he'll get to ATEM. I think for now, it looks a lot like Marcusal's career. Okay.

But he will get there. He'll get there. He's going to find this. Gilbert? Yeah. He's got the connects. Would you say? So does.

Okay, so the next thing we're going to do, that's funny. Sticking on the topic of history, we're going to keep going. We did a video a few months ago where we did the most fun player to watch in the NBA currently at every position. So,

I'm going to name every single position. You tell me who is the most fun player to watch all time. Okay. Point guard. Steph Curry? Easy. It is Steph Curry. Magic Johnson was probably a thrill to watch in the 80s.

If you're a kid growing up in 1985 and you're watching Magic Johnson run around the court, 6-9 behind the back passes, it was probably equally as impressive as Steph Curry. You have that. You have Magic. You have Steph. You do have Kyrie Irving. Pete. Sleeper.

Pete Kyrie is like. Sure, sure. All I'm saying is like, if we're just, I'm not talking. about how good you are, how great. Don't disrespect her. No, no, no, like, I, I, sure. Very fun player. It's Steph Curry and Matt's a different level.

He's been to get Matt even more mad at the end I'm going to say. Westbrook, so fucking fun of him. Screaming, running through the motherfucking's face. If we're talking about, like, hitting the most audacious shots. Six-minute highlight tapes. Exactly. We're seeing a lot of names to say it's Steph Curry, though, right?

Still, Steph. I don't know. I don't know. It's probably Steph. It's the greatest shooter of all times. It's a thrill. Yeah. He's probably the most fun player of all time.

It's tough. Shooting guard. Is it MJ? Is it the goat? I think M.J. I think. Yes. Yeah.

He's more, he's more athletic. Once we get to the later part of his years, it's like, it's very, very technical, fundamental. Right.

But I'd just like seeing people fly. Just ha! Vince Carter. Oh. Really? Wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Vince Carter's,

Vince Carter's dunk highlight package is it's one of like the 10 best highlight packages in all of sports. His highlights are fun to watch. I don't think game to game basis he's more fun to watch than Michael Jordan. I don't care.

The idea and the, the wondering, like, is he going to jump over somebody? I don't think he gets a poster a game if he did, he'd be more fun to watch? I don't know. You don't want to mention

J.R. Smith in this conversation. Someone who don't hit open threes but contested he will green every single thing when you want to talk about guys who are flying. We're really. We're talking about fundamentals and wanting to watch team basketball

because that's fun to you. Derek White is up there. This guy's a nerd, man. Derek White. I feel like it's probably Michael Jordan. Alan Iverson, if you want to go there, is it just like pound for pound, watching someone that size carry

that much of weight on their shoulders? We can go MJ, I guess. But that's boring. No, let's not do that. Let's not do that. Let's find somebody else. You're disqualified. Baldy.

We're going on Vince Carter. I think I'd probably go on Iverson. It's more fun to watch than Vince Carter. now I think I actually know we put Kyrie a shooting guard and cheat you mean he did play shooting guard for a little bit he did play shooting guard we can't do that come on now I'll go AI then low key Dwayne Wade I love watching Dwayne Wade but I know some people don't like found merchants and if you played today they'd become a found merchant they would they would hate Dwayne Wade but O6 Dwayne Wade is insane to watch the burst and slashing is ridiculous the posters I like watching O6 Dwayne Wade more than Pete Kobe

and if we're not going Jordan my vote is Wayne Wade I would say Hardin but Yeah, yeah, I'm going to get outvoted. You will get out of it. I love watching hard on this. I vote doing Wade and keep pushing. Oh, no, man. Will you get out voted? We could go D-Wade.

Let's go D-Wade. We go D-Wade. Small Ford, I think we just go to LeBron. I think we just go LeBron. I think we go LeBron. Kevin Ratt would be up there if he had, like, the eye, the tiger

to want to score 60 a game and go insane sickle mode with that size and frame. He doesn't. He's so fundamental. I don't think he's more fun than LeBron. LeBron's a different type of fun. 2012.

LeBron is the most fun player. That was insane. Yeah. That was a torpedo on the court. It was. Don't matter. 2012. But does Kennedy have an argument?

No. I don't think so. Yeah, yeah. He's an argument. He only has an argument. LeBron has a multifaceted argument. It's LeBron. It's LeBron.

What about? Does Dr. Jay have more of an argument than KD? That's your grandpa. Power forward. Where do you want to go? This guy was. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. That's your grandpa's crazy. Four. I can't stand you People are going to hate you What? I don't know You're more fun to watch

This damn kid Power forward KG deserves to be up there Just to be up Without even playing basketball This is one of the Goat is definitely not the most fun to watch

It's not Duncan I'll tell you who It's Zach Randolph Shut up Jack Randolph Come on What are we talking It's Zach Randall

Is it honest Like I don't think we see a four that has that, like, that dunking with that ball handling. The fact that you can't use him in a video game because he's so overpowered that sometimes you'd be like banning him. That sounds a lot about the way he plays in real life.

Yonis is... Oh, I'm gonna score 35. No, get on the block, yeah. Throw your shoulder into somebody. That's what I need. Are you a bully? Are bullies getting bully? That is true.

2018 ADD was very fun to watch. I think I'm... I think we'll go, Janus. I might lean towards 80 because the fluidity that he plays. Do you remember Young Yonis, when he was first breaking under the MVP scene, he dunked so fucking much. That first

playoff run, I still starkly remember him breaking on to stardom, playing the Wizards in the first round, dunking over everybody nonstop. I felt like I was watching God. Young Blake Griffin. Good pick. Young Blake Griffin. I think Young Blake Griffin is more fun than AD. Fun? Okay.

I can see the argument. I don't know about that. Power 4 is like a dunking position. Yeah. Because you're getting caught up in, like, Instagram training and, and how many skills can you do? I love backwards. I love backwards. I've seen 80 cross the one.

I've seen 80 cross two people at one time. No other big man in NBA history can say that. I've seen, I've seen Blake Griffin put nuts in face multiple times. You know, he's had repeat offenders too. Didn't you do that to either POW or Kendrake twice? In the same game, he did the pal. Okay. We go Blake Griffin.

Fuck it. winner. Shaq. It's Shaq. It's Shaq. I do for me personally, I love watching Yokish, my favorite player in the league right now, but I understand that some nerd shit is Shaq. Okay.

Just too big, too strong. He's going to dunk on you, push you down. Like, it's also the disrespectfulness of his game. So it's very fun. But I'll make it clear. I love watching Yokish high post pass. The nerds got something to say. If I'm on this podcast, we're getting Yokish, please.

We're getting it out there. What a check. I think Yoko should be number two for me, but Shaq is one. Who else? Who else has an argument? Honestly, I think it's just Shaq. I don't even know if there's really like, because all they're the greats, like, Kareem, Hakeem, Bill Russell, Will.

I mean, I guess this is an argument for Will, but I don't know how to parse that. Like, Kareem and Hakeem aren't that fun to watch in that way. Manute Bolt deserves to be, he deserves a mention. I'm like spectacle, sure. Wimby? Wimby, we'll get there. Not yet, though. You say that as a joke.

No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm just trying to shoehorn him. Yeah, I know. It's a shoehorn, but like, he probably will get there in this conversation one day. Okay. He's on the shortlist. He's, he's in the on-deck circle. Yeah, yeah, he's coming. Hey, yo.

Hey. You tell me one thing you learned about them this year can be on the court, off the court, about their personality, about their game, about who they are as people, anything. I feel like I'm in school right now. Let's do it. What did you learn about Shaigold's Alexander this year? I learned that he has no ligaments in his ankles. And he can bend at any angle that he needs to to get by his defender. Hell.

I learned that his whole life is consistent. Oh, okay. I learned that he made Congress. I learned that he made it possible for me to think Converse look cool. He made Converse basketball shoes look dope. He also made me learn that other people do not respect greatness at all. I was going to say, yeah, he helped me learn how miserable humans can be. Yeah, he made me learn that NBA fans are hypocritical as fuck.

Too many threes. Get back to the mid-range. You get the mid-range player regeneration and you hate them. Yeah, the scale just keeps on moving, bro. Goalpost is fucking unpredictable. He made me learn NBA discourse is the worst, which I already knew, but he reiterated it. I agree. He also made me learn that he's an NBA legend, that he,

put his name in the history books this year. Definitely. LeBron James, what did you learn about Unck this year? This year. I learned the Unk. Don't got it anymore. He's running out of gas.

He's still got it. It's just not quite to the same level. You know, he's still a star. Every year I just continue to learn how ridiculous it is that he still average is 25 points your game at this point of his career. Like, so I didn't learn anything. I just continued to be told that it's ridiculous

that he still is playing. I also learned that Moe will glaze him to the ends of the earth. Even past the whatever I thought was was possible Most blazing trails on on Yeah, he's not really Yeah, nah, not really Talking about another grown man's lips

What's going on here, man? I was that I thought I was supposed to. What is this? Chapstick? No. You got the answer. Trust me, he's got it ready. He's just made sure it's moist. He never gets caught liking.

What about LeBron this year? Ah. My mind goes to the free agency stuff. What did we learn about LeBron? But it's nothing that it's nothing new at all for real. Yeah. It's nothing that we didn't know. I guess it reaffirmed, as you know, I guess that you can say, like, I learned that

LeBron is not as truly selfish or like, or like self-centered as like you would think that somebody of his caliber would be. Because as soon as Luca got traded, he's like, man, finally, like perfect. Like I can just be the old man. But we've known. he's wanted to do that for a couple years. Yeah. But like, and I, like, we've known that he can do that, obviously, but.

I think we've learned that LeBron is about what he's been preaching. He wants to go out in Sunset and be a secondary star. He wants to retire a Laker and have this, like, storybook ending. There's been a lot of reasons to provoke him to, like, change up on what those things he's been saying in terms of his loyalty to Lakers and what he wants in this faster of his career. He hasn't done that. He hasn't requested trade. He's been supportive of their moves when he really doesn't have to be for Apalinka.

I think he's learned. this year that LeBron is no longer lying. He's about his words. There's absolutely nothing that I learned about my king. I know everything. He taught me nothing new. I did learn that he does have great restraint because he could have slapped Stephen A. Like crazy. You're right. He could have knocked him out. We learned that he is a bigger man than me. Physically and literally. Nice.

Been new the first one. Anthony Edwards. What did you learn about aunt this year? The sky's the limit. That's what I learned. I learned that he cannot be the face of the league That is not in the cards I will leave it there What did you learn about Kate Cunningham this year? I learned that it's not his fault To some extent that you give him competency

And he is not a bus He is actually I'd never thought that But you know some people were like Not worthy number one pick He's never going to do it We saw what happened He took that leap when he got given just enough help he is who we thought he was i learned that i still think monty williams deserves

jail time absolutely for starting killing hayes over jaden ivy yeah absolutely and even though like we didn't see much of jaden ivy this past year because of injury still deserves jail time to me yeah i guess i guess i guess but we knew that he was in jail before because that seemed yeah yeah it wasn't it wasn't news to us yeah we just we just saw come to friscia what were you knew what did you learn about Kevin Durant this year still about his buckets and will forever be about his buckets yeah if there was ever a moment

where you thought that he wasn't thinking about bucket is you're wrong it's the only thing on his mind I don't know I've seen him think about a lot of shit on Twitter he's been active hello thinking about a lot of stuff outside of buckets I've learned that his Twitter addiction has gone nowhere

is it an addiction I learned that he's the easiest man to rage bait in the world that's what I learned is it rage bait to him yes He thinks he's above it He thinks it's not rage bait It is rage bait

He thinks he's playing 40 chess By baiting the bait Before he gets bait himself He's not He's constantly replying to one specific person too Yeah, he's being rage baited That's what I learned Steph Curry

He still got it I learned that he still has juice In the fucking tank man When he's not playing alongside Just a bunch of buddy heel possessions all day Buddy heel Yeah He still got it

This is a devious picture I know What we learned about Steph this year? you. He still got it, bro. Yeah, that wasn't a doubt to me. Listen, I learned absolutely nothing. I really, I really can't.

I don't know. It was such like a, the first half of the year. Yeah. Bad teammates. Yeah. I look bad. Second half of the year is like good, better teammates. I look better.

And so everything that I thought about, Seth Curry, that I was defending him. We're glazing too much. I learned that he's no longer at the best point guard in the league. and that's pretty definitive. Who's the best? Oh, no mind. Either Shay or Luca, if he's going to bounce back with Shay right now.

I just think we learned that from the first half of the year, that wasn't his fault, the team was bad. He had no help. But I think we learned that while he's not wash or anything, it's just really hard for him to carry the same weight he did on his shoulders like he used to, that that's just like too much to ask him with this age. How do you?

He can't be quite the hero on the court that he could when he was younger. I also learned that he will still consistently be getting failed by his front office. They haven't done anything goddamn. Yeah. This all season, too. Jimmy Butler. I learned that he, never one.

Why don't you want to say? What did I learn about Jimmy Butler? I learned that he still has it a little bit. I thought, I thought every old person we've learned they still have it. Yeah, well, because in Miami, I thought that the second half of last year and the way things were going, I was like, yeah, he's just, he's just talking.

Like, he can't impact the team the way that he's, He is saying that he can. And then he goes to Golden State and immediately rise all the way of the standings to the 17th. You know what I learned? I learned he's the most self-aware, media savvy player in the NBA. As soon as he got to the Warriors, all he's talk about is how much he wants to be robbed in, how much Steph Curry's Batman. He knows that Kevin Durant never took a backseat and the fans hated him for it. He knew he needs to play into that.

He needs to say, Steph Curry is a man. Make sure they love me and want to keep me forever. No, no. I think he leaned too far into that. And because I say that, I think I think I learned that he is. is ducking too much responsibility. Too much. What the fuck?

I just caught on to what you said. You think he's too passive to step gray? He's letting him take too much. Too passive. Yes, they traded for you for a reason, man. I need to see 22 a game. But honestly, it's like, it's like smart.

Like, he's in that savior's career. He should be like, trust me. I know I'm Robin. Like, he's very, very self-reflective. Luca Donchich. I learned that cyber bullying works. He got skinny immediately. after everybody was saying, what are you doing, Tubbs?

Yeah, everyone has called him fat for months now, and he has gone on a worldwide press tour to let everybody know, I was on Weight Watchers, I was doing my cardio, I was eating my broccoli, I was doing it all, and now, you know, we'll see if he finally gets that MVP season that everybody's been talking about for the last few years. I learned how fickle being a fan favorite is

with Luca this year. That man was like one of the most unanimously loved players in the league for five years, has one off year that isn't even like that bad and immediately it's like washed, cooked, fat ass, can't do it no more. All he did was get hurt once and have like a moderately slow year.

Fat ass. People were so dramatic for him averaging like 26 points per game on like 2% less than you shooting. I learned you have to be a, if you're at that level player, you had to be 100% yourself every year or they're going to kill you.

I definitely learned directly through him that the Luminati is directly affiliated with the Lakers 110%. Let's go. Tari's Halliburton. I learned he's him. I learned every limitation you imagine for him.

Say, oh, he's not that. He doesn't that much of a burst. Isn't a good rim finisher. Can't get to certain shots all the time. Does not matter when the game is on the line. He will perform like Steph Curry. He will perform like LeBron James. He will perform like N.V. Edwards.

He is the best player of all time with 30 seconds left. Yeah. I learned that you cannot put limitations on him at all no matter what or else you will look stupid and be embarrassed. Yeah, I What you said For Luca, I learned here

I learned the Illuminati is real Oh yeah, you felt the worst That an impact Also, you learned that you hate Tyre's Aliburton This playoff run? Yes, I did. He ruined my summer. He ruined my maid.

He made my summer great. Carlancy Towns I learned that As long as you are Dominican New Yorkers will love you No matter what, No matter what. A big bodega, man.

That's a good takeaway. Janice. Damn, man. I learned that this is the most loyal man to ever loyal to the world. Nobody is ever loyal like Janus is loyal. I learned that Janus is like one of the greatest manipulators of all time. As loyal as you think he is, he actually not. He is actually not.

He's pressed so many buttons, went on so many random tours, press tours, on just like pressing the Milwaukee Bucks and just talking about how much he wants to. He's went on press tours about being able to press, not actually. pressing he hasn't requested a trade and that roster is bullshit it will be bullshit next year they have no chance contending and he's staying man it's one year it's one year and everything went bad and now everyone's like yeah go go go we haven't even had an opportunity for him to test his loyalty let me see how low you are in february yeah okay let me see it i won't get at myself how many more seven point per game kall kuzman nights can you withstand for real let's talk

about it are you really about it are you really loyal exactly kpj's right there co-anthony's right there. Are you really going to elevate? Bobby Portis is still here. Michael Porter, Jr. I learned that we need to start a band through him. I learned that maybe podcast mics for athletes. We need to, I kind of learned that maybe free speech wasn't the best thing for this country. Yeah. I can't learn that maybe we do need sound in some people. Maybe we need more cancel culture for specific people. And I, listen. I think Adam Silver genuinely needs to put in like a last policy because he would like be running up the goddamn score for like lashes lead in the league. David Stern would have sent it to a Bia Shade?

He wouldn't be in America right now at all. He would send him somewhere over there. David Stern would have sent him to boarding school like I'll sweatshers mom. Yeah, like going from like, Davis Sten would have lasted him himself. Like going from like leaking Adam Silver's number or the league's number, bro, and email his shit. You're just like saying all the craziest stuff in the world on the podcast. We're grandfathered in, but the new law should be that podcast might cost a million dollars.

We're grandfathered in. I already got him. They're not break. That's the last one. Oh, man, bro. He just says the stupid shit. That's tough. On the topic of this year, let's talk real quick, do a quick video about free agency.

I want to know what you guys think are the best and worst moves that were made this summer. First of all, what's the best? What was the best move of the summer? Let's see. I will say. very sick-o-pick I did love Luke Cornett to the

to the Spurs shut up why what does he do for you what are we talking about right now Luke my god obviously Kevin Rand is a member of the Houston Rockets now they're probably going to be

Are we called that free agency? Yeah it's the move of the summer it happened during the summer I didn't say just free agency the summer okay I didn't know yeah not not only direct free agency signings just just like transaction

yeah transaction that happened the summer best move for the summer for me personally it's when the Norrance Pelicans went ahead and gave us their protected pick for next year I'm in love with that

I thought it was unprotected I think no it's unprotected is it unprotected yeah it's unprotected dude has been so long since you talked about it because that was the stupidest thing of the off season

yeah okay we'll get to that so I think best move I mean Kevin Rant going to the rockets giving them the shot creation they need giving them more length more size more shooting clearly the most impactful move

outside of that It better be Desmond Bain to the Magic That better prove to be the move of the summer Otherwise if we go into next year And the shooting isn't fixed again They're cooked There's no way I can't sit through another year

Where the Magic are the 23rd best offense in the league It's hard to watch I'm sick of it frankly When you have You have Palo Franz and Desmond Bain Please get to 19 Yeah Please I'm begging you

Most definitely Another good move Shot to the I don't know is one of the best for the Denver Nuggets and where they were. Shit, it's one of the best moves, bro. Getting off the MPJ, replacing with Cam Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Jr.

on that bench. And then you also have Jonas Valchunis as well. You had me in getting off of MPJ. That's all I needed to say. Gotcha. What is the worst move of the summer? Worst moves. You said it. From a transaction,

the New Orleans Pelicans giving an unprotected pick to the Hawks to go up to get Derek Queen. Yeah, that's terrible. And like getting Derrick Queen, fine, giving up that much draft assets. Like, you just didn't need to do that. Surely that wasn't necessary.

That's going to bite them so bad. I promise you it wasn't necessary. I promised you that the Hawks' GM heard you and was like, a first-time pick, okay. Unprotected. Word? Okay. Apparently they kept calling it. They kept calling back and was like, it's unprotected, right?

That's the one that you're offering? I can't believe it. Dumbass. Oh, also, loki underrated best. Best transaction when the Pace is traded for their first round pickback next to you. Oh, yeah. Got ahead of it. Yeah, brilliant move.

Worse also, I would say the Milwaukee Bucks just going ahead and designed to cut to cut Damia Lur. That's just the most random. Yeah. I get it. But the implication that long term, like, they're so, their money is so tied up now. Like, they're so limited in what they can do. It was such a desperate move to try to keep you honest.

Yeah. Not great. Not great at all. What else was a bad move outside of that? The bad move is, oh, it's the FBI costing Malik Beasley, 42 million dollars. Blake Beasley. Worst move of the summer doing crime during an FBA season when you're a pending free agent. Yeah, that's pretty terrible.

Pretty terrible move, you asked me. Yeah, terrible. They said it won't? No, it's not, the investigation isn't actually over. Oh, yeah, he's not the subject. Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. He's out.

What else is a bad move? Well, I'm sure the Bulls is some bullshit What I'm forgetting that movie The Bulls got to be out here Lazo for Isaac Acor Yeah, that's not too bad Yeah, for the Bulls, yeah Actually, is it bad? I don't know

Oh, no, the worst move was the net drafting four point guards in a draft class That could have been transformational for the roster Instead, they commit acts of crime To their fan base by doing nonsense With four first-round picks You know, pretty stupid One of the point guards have to work out

And they need a point guard It's a Matthew. They should Fuck it. There's a starting point get out there somewhere. And I, good job.

Horrible job. Terrible move. You were aggressive. You were downright incompetent. Speaking of incompetent. Sacramento Kings, they did absolutely fucking nothing this summer

outside of who. Bring in Dennis Schroeder? Yeah. Yeah. Whatever they do. I mean, they just constantly like the word. Just bad.

They always belong here. Yeah. Okay. Last thing we're going to do. Last year I run this time, we did an episode of this show about the greatest what ifs in NBA history.

The biggest needle-moving sparks in history that went one way that could have went the other way and changed the game as we know it. Today we're going to do that again but specifically what ifs about the 2020s. So of the last five, six seasons

what are the biggest what ifs that are going to shape the league going forward. Okay. Okay, biggest what is? Let's do it. I have one. You go first time. What's your first biggest what if?

You're cooking last time we did this. My biggest what if happens in 20203. What if Tatum doesn't go crazy in game six against the sixers? because what happened was it was a close game. Tatum was sucking. He was trashed up until the third quarter

or up until the fourth quarter. He had three points and was one for 13 going into the fourth. Then in the last five minutes, he hits four threes. And the Celtics win that game and they force a game seven and then the Sixers collapsing game seven.

If the Sixers win that game and they close out the series, Jowell and B gets to the conference finals for the first time. Do the Philadelphia's 76ers, then take that and then go on the championship. I forget. Is that the first year they had James Hardin or second year? Yes.

That was what James Hardin though, right? Yeah. And that was the year they would have played the Miami Heat. Yes. Good chance. Good chance they beat the Heets. And that's on the other side of that too. And then do they go ahead and decide.

They would have ended up playing the Nuggets and we would have gotten an Embedgich final. We got the MVP Big Bowl. That would have been. good for history. I don't think it would have changed much because I think there's a good chance that he would have beat the six years. He were really good that year.

That was the year they were, that was the one seat, right? In 23? I think that was, yeah, I think that was, or was it 21. There was one of these years that were really good.

No, no, no, my bad about it. Because that was the year that's the Nuggets played a six seed in the finals. It was like, boo, you didn't play any good teams. So, never mind. The eight seed. Yeah, eight, yeah,

yeah, so never mind. Wrong year I'm thinking about. It was 21. So yeah, maybe the sixers could beat them. You never know. But also on the other side of that, too, do the Boston Seltz at that point in time decide to split and break up John Brown and Tatum if they lose? I think that might happen because they do end up eventually getting over the hump, but that's after they go ahead and add Cape Prozingis onto that team. Probably not because they were already having, like, they still lost the next round when they shouldn't.

They lost one eight seed. So, you know, they still went outside and they didn't, they had the wearer with all to keep it together. So they probably still do that, even if it's a round earlier. Yeah. But that's the one where it's like. it's so it's so crazy like just four threes and five minutes like damn yeah and like and that's a difference between somebody being one of the greatest chokers of all time for a superstar and mbd versus normal career yeah mind you i was i was going through through the game log

joan mb was no show okay oh i'll start with the lakers one what if the lakers never trade for russell westbrook but that doesn't happen and doesn't slam shut their championship window with LeBron and AD because they ran it back in 2021 post-championship were once again the best team in the West but Anthony Davis got hurt because the short off season coming off the bubble LeBron got hurt Solomon Thomas when I catch you

or Solomon Hill Solomon Thomas not the defensive line Solomon Hill did what he did all that happened so 2021 was a lost year when they were better after getting Dennis getting Marcusal having drummond having that better role player cast surrounding them and then they over fucking reacted

and went out and got a superstar What if they just run that same team back? I will say, I think if they run it back, eventually they're going to still make it trade regardless. But I think it opens up a pathway for them to go ahead and trade for someone like Kyrie back in 2023. That's another one I have. What if they got Kyrie in that time? Yeah. Because, you know, when Kyrie went to the Mavs, the Lakers were in it trying to get them bring them back.

They couldn't get it done for basically the none of assets and the Nets are like, fuck you Lakers. Yeah. If they had more assets, maybe they can get over that. Yeah. And I think with the, we're not doing that arrest, they obviously would have to do. So I think that would have happened. And like in 2021, that was the year that the sons made the finals.

So they beat the Lakers because they were injured. They come back to next year. That's when the Warriors made the finals. If you tell me that Lakers team is whole again and Anthony Davis doesn't get hurt, which he did get hurt again the next year. So I don't know if we've been back by the playoffs or not because he had a weird year for two years. If that team was Holcomb playoff time, you could have easily seen them back in the finals. Yeah.

I've another one from 22. from that kind of specific timeline, which is like, what if the Sons don't choke in game seven? And they win that finals? Not even win that finals, but like if they beat the Mavs in game seven. Oh,

you mean the next year? Oh, yeah. They would end up playing, instead of the Western Conference finals being the Warriors and the Mavs and you have this like young star and Luca who they haven't been there before

and now you're able to just, you know, out execute through all that stuff. Now you're playing the Sons who they had the best records in the West that year they were two of like the top three teams in the Western Conference

and you have you have so much Mikea Parsons is a Packer No you're lying They traded them What? No no no no no no You're fucking lying All right so you all are going to get an emergency episode A House Call tomorrow the day after you post an episode

That's coming out tomorrow Michael Parsons is a Packer We're going to record that right after this episode Jerry Jones went on this Sorry let me just save it Wow we'll get to this after We're going to record immediately So you're going to see Houseville episode tomorrow.

Wow. That's O. C. Okay. Wow. Okay. All right. Get back on rails. Wow.

Yeah. Big recording day today. Get ready. You wanted to leave up by five, not happening. Yeah, buddy. I got work. What if the Hawks never went ahead and traded for Desonte. Hey, man, episode's over.

I can't think. I can't think. We got to finish this. It's a good clip. This is crazy. I was saying, what if the Hawks never traded away or traded for Desonte Murray? In my mind, that also means that they, of course, like, retain their picks. And there's a wide open pathway to get someone like Kevin Durant.

One of the biggest one is, is the Hawks. Yeah, hell, yeah, it is. Because if we don't, if we don't, if we hold ourselves back, literally the following year later, we wouldn't end up with Katie. You would have all the assets. Hell yeah. You laughing, but I'm dead serious. Okay, on the topic of Kevin Durant If the Hawks were in that

Because they're capable, that's a good one So one of mine is We can mesh these together Mine is what if the sons Never traded with Kevin Durant They had this great period When they had the Young Wings Aitn, Booker, Chris Paul

They blew it up in a decision That I think we all thought made sense Getting KD was good Didn't work out What happens if they just don't do that And they just run it They keep Aiden, they keep Cam They keep McHale

Do we have more excellence Are they in a better spot And where's Kevin Durant go? besides the hawks I don't know it sounds like that's the prime destination sounds like he was just destined to be a hawk

yeah he was oh man I have no idea where he goes so in that time he was obviously he had preferences of where he wanted to go he wanted to go to the Miami heats or the suns were his main things but the Celtics were also reportedly

interested in a Jalen Brown trade I think that was debunk some people were saying they didn't actually offer Jalen Brown but the Celtics were interested and notably the Raptors and the 76ers were interested you might have been a Raptor I remember that the Raptors were super interested they they were asking like the packages that that they wanted back for the Raptors were just a lot yeah they wanted Scotty Barnes yeah and it was like well what's the point of trading for

KD if you're gonna gut our team I think they would have did it though it seemed like the reports that the Raptors would have did it remember the haul they got from the Suns was like substantial yeah they got those two wings and a lot of picks that the Suns had no picks left like they got a lot from the sons to turn down a scotty barns package what if they'd have done that what if they would have traded him for scotty barns that's just dumb and and like it it feels weird saying like you know i understand yeah dumb in a sense that they're far away so even what that yeah yeah it ambitious is the is the best word for that yeah but yeah i don't know if that would work speaking speaking about dumb i got another one but okay what if so there was a part that came

out back in late, mid to late May, that the Minnesota Timber Rules were back in the 2020 draft, that the Minnesota Timberwolves were actually interested in falling back in the draft and they offered up the Warriors, their number one overall pick for the sake of next year's pick. And also, I think a pick that ended up turning into John the Cominga because, you know, the words, like, they tripled up that draft class. What if the Warriors and Steve Kerr specifically and their front office actually to work had senses? And we were, had senses. And we were, were tantalized by Anthony Edwards and we're like you know what we see this guy we see this young guy doesn't have to stand and necessarily had a rough workout but we want to put

all our tips in and his potential what if they went in and did that that would change so much because in my mind that means cat is definitely umptimal so this day that we're talking Rudy gobert trade probably never happens Rudy gober probably ends up in the most random area like I don't know the Cleveland cavaliers or something like that and this also like extends the prime with someone like Steph Curry and I think that the warriors probably have more than one may probably have more than one ship to this day. All that is fine.

Anthony Edwards going to the Warriors would have been the thing. That would have been insane. I don't give me fuck where Rudy Goberr goes. I don't give me shit where cat goes. And with Steph Curry would have been ridiculous. Like that is such a like all time.

Like we talk about what if they had to pick lamello. The fact that an opportunity to get Anthony Edwards, that is so under talked about. I didn't even know about that until I saw Kenny talking about it like a week ago. Yeah. Yeah.

It got released. I think not talking for it got released back in may so spin the bottom part and loosen it up first now i'm just hold it why would you just hold it i don't feel like doing this well you'd rather hold it yeah i guess so how do you get loose no i don't know it's just one all right keep that worries him um yeah so so much changes because who the fuck knows it happens with the nix i'm trying to unscrew this thing back with one hand. I think you're good now, right?

Yeah, it's fine now. Nice. I'm just wondering why you stop to stare at him. Because all this movement, I'm like, what's going on, man? All this movement's happening, distracting me and shit. But yeah, like, I easily think with Andy Edwards, a part of this nucleus. Obviously, they evade James Wiseman. They don't have any discussion.

Yeah. They escape this terrible Jonathan Kaminga Moody. They get less wise because Moses Moody isn't there. Draymond and Anthony Edwards, that's such a weird-ass, like, personality mesh. Yeah. But God damn, it will fucking work. Clay Thompson, he probably becomes more expendable to and he still ends up going to wherever the fuck at that point in time. Yeah.

They're still heavy hitters. I have another Timberwolves kind of related one. What if, what if Rudy Gobert doesn't hit that fade away? And I use all of that. One, I just had to bring that up, but also, like, If the Nuggets don't choke in game seven, do they win the title? Do, like, do they go back to back? Because then we would assume that they would end up playing,

they would have played the Mavs in the next round, and then they would have played Boston in the finals. And that would have been, like, the matchup that we were all talking about. And in that regular season, the time that they played, like Boston wasn't great executing against them. like Denver was doing all the stuff where it's like we're going to get to the fourth quarter we're going to get to five minutes left and we're just going to boom boom boom do our normal thing if that happens and like if Denver and if Denver went back to back yokech is he's already

rising up there he's stamped as like top three because if you have like three out of four MVPs and back to back titles and that it's one of the four best peaks where did you have him in your all-time list uh seven if he did that he'll be probably like he's top five He was packed to back, man. I would have gotten stupid with my conversations. He's top four. At that point, the only people, it would just be Karim, Russell, and Shaq. And then he would be right there at four.

Damn. Which even right now. To be fair, they didn't win the game because of the fadeaway. It was also a fourth quarter of a meltdown. No, that's what I just had to bring it up. Yeah, it's just a good moment. But like if that didn't meltdown, like that's the fadeaway is when everybody knew, oh, they're going to lose this game, right?

Because, and mind you, there was still like five. minutes left on the clock whenever he hit the fader and they went up by four but it's like i mean frudigo bears hitting fade away jumpers at the end of the clock we're not really gonna like we clearly this is ordained by it by somebody else yeah okay this is the biggest elephant in the room in terms of recent history yeah what if the Patriots win game seven oh what if they win the finals yeah that was like if he doesn't tear his Achilles yeah both let's say they win game seven because Tyrese doesn't get hurt. And that means they are the biggest,

the biggest Cinderella run in NBA history, I think, in terms of a team that had no business winning the finals on paper, not led by a superstar all-time great, legendary player, straight team basketball, upends an all-time great regular season team after inexplicable game-winning shot luck and just dominates everybody in this way.

That would be one of the best runs of all time. We'd be going to a summer in which Tyrese Halliburton is clearly going to be talking about as a top-10 player in the league right now going into defending his championship run he just had Shay is going to be the most hated player in the world for choking in the finals everyone's calling Chet, Bull Bowl, even more than they already are discourse would be insane Man the works that I would do with Pascal Siakum

man she you're lucky yeah no it would be crazy like Tyrese also just because of like that one year would instantly be thrust into certain all-time conversations who'd be a hallfamer off one that one run instantly, but I'm talking about like, when we do all-time point guards or whatever, he's instantly like top 30. He's instantly pushing top 20 if he has the ring

and he has the clutches playoff run that we've ever seen. And he's so young still in this scenario we're saying if he doesn't tear his Achilles. Yeah. He would have so many years in front of him of being this good for this long, just getting started. Like, it would be a legendary career. And also on the side of that, too,

OKC would be one of the biggest disappointments in NBA history. That'd be on the short list of best teams to not win a championship in a given year. Most definitely. I don't think they do anything drastic with their roster still because of course the season they had

was ridiculous and their superpowers were ridiculous too. But, I don't know. They probably do something. Their head coach should be, definitely San Precii will be fucking cooked to oblivion because he had plenty of opportunities to make other niche trades

during the NBA season like Cam Johnson as well. Yeah. But he remained and stood pat, he would be fried. I think that's something they would do. They probably would have got it at Cam Johnson or something in the summer. Yeah. They probably would have made that happen and, like, sacrifice some long-term viability

and gone in on next year and said, we will be able to shoot the basketball. We will not be ignored in corner threes this year. Yeah, I agree. One that I have that, I will say, this is just a personal weather. It's not super, like, consequential because I don't think that the end result of the season would have changed. But if Jimmy Butler had hit that pull-up three in game seven against the Celtics, I was going to pick the Warriors to win that season.

regardless. Yeah. But that would have been one of the craziest moments of Jimmy Bullitt, getting the rebound on a fast break, stopping, doing all that stuff, and, and him the three to beat the Celtics. I literally, I think about that a lot. Yeah. I remember that. Last one I have.

What if the heat get Dame instead of the bucks? Dame wanted to go the heat. He demanded to go the heat. He said, trade me to the heat. That's the only place I want to go. And the trailblazers front office said, watch this and send him somewhere else. against his own wishes and you know

because the package is better or whatever but what if they got him and they had a nucleus he said Packers I said package yeah he's so excited

I said package but like what are they a nucleus are Jimmy Butler Bam and Dame going to 2024 nice nice calm 3C

no that would have been a great team that would have competed with the Celtics I don't know they were an all time it's also like super dependent on like

what happens with the Celtics and the Milwaukee Bucks to be Because, like, that also means... Oh, Drew Holiday. Ends up... I don't know if he ends up being on the Celtics

or even on the Bucks still as well. He's probably just... He's probably on the Bucs still. Or somewhere X team else, but that's not the Celtics. I don't know because he still was a disappointment to a degree. Sure, sure. And a part of their flaw. So they probably ship him out regardless, but...

But if there's no dame available, who didn't ship mount for? Like, there's not... There wasn't that many deals done with those type of players. But you're right. Maybe they would have done something else. Who knows? That's a huge question. Yeah.

So maybe the 24 Celtics don't even become the dominant team they are. They don't. That unlocks a whole different universe. Maybe they still are elite because. So do the Knicks win a championship? I don't know. Shut. I'm talking about it.

Well, like, what I'm hearing is, does that mean Luca win the championship? Because he would have beat the heats? Hmm. Very. Do you want to be on there? Yeah, I think so. All I'm hearing is Luca would have been on goat path if this goddamn trade didn't happen and if Dam got to go to the Miami Heat.

Don't question it. That's what we're hearing. I don't know. No, no, don't question it. I don't know. I'm here questioning. You know what this is? What is it?

He's telling Luca and the if man. All his favorites. You got to stone him, man. That's the last one I got. I think that might be all for me. The other ones that I have is obviously, what if Katie's toe was on the line? Oh, yeah. We didn't even get, the 2021 Nets is the biggest what if by far.

We talked about that in the biggest what is. time episode. But even so much around that. Even that, what if Adam Silver had some sense and was like, let's not start the season in December and let's actually push it back and give people an actual offseason because so many of the stars got hurt in 21 because it was a very limited off season and people were at home for two, three months. So it's not like you're at the at the facility doing all this other stuff.

The season ended like the Lakers won the championship in October. And then the season started. in December, that's just like impossible to recover for a lot of people. It ruined several years of Anthony Davis's prime, which in turn ruined several years of LeBron James's prime. This is cheating a little bit. But what if Kauai Leonard for the 2019-2020 season decided to stay on the Toronto Raptors? What if he decided to go to the Lakers and make a super team with LeBron and Anthony David?

Even if that, even if that's the case too, I think what I'm trying to hint at still gets to that point to. Shea is still a clipper. I don't know if he still progresses in the same way because he did come into paths with someone like Chris Paul and Dennis Shorten or all that, which is super important to the development. But I don't know as well because then his vets are Lou Will and Pat Beb

and that's just a whole different dynamic too. Well, I think we overestimate the fact like he didn't suck powers out of Chris Paul, literally. So I think he still would have been a superstar. But that is interesting because like if he is a superstar, to what avail on the clippers? Would they've been able to build a team that Presti was able to build because of this trade and all the assets they got?

They also got J-Dub from that trade. They also tanked and got. Chet. Damn, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So J-dub is where in this scenario? Well, the pick would be a clipper's pick if they still keep that same position. Damn.

So let's say J-Dubb is also a clipper. The clipper's got Shea and J-Dohm. If they're smart, I don't know, because they made some dumb moves and then B.H-Row, they saw this guy named Jerome Robinson, bro. Oh, yeah, they're not going to do that. Hell not. They made some dumb moves.

I don't know. That's a good one. Yeah, that. Paul George and Westbrook still are in okay. She would still become a superstar, I think. But would he have the opportunity to contend. and win a championship and do all this stuff?

I don't know. Oh, I don't know. I would say probably yes because I do Tailu's still there. True, true, true. Tailu is there and they still, like, Zubach is there too. They still have good team building abilities. Yeah, you're right, you're right. They just suck in the draft.

And then not to doubt the clipper is. I'm just saying, like, would he have to walk into Chet and Jada as his crazy nucleus and all these picks? Like, he's in like the best case scenario you can imagine for a slashing guard. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I agree. And then Russ is still there and Paul George is still there in OKC.

Fishing and shit. Fish him? All right, man. that's it man that's our biggest what is the season I'm biggest what ifs of the decade and that's the biggest what if so the 2020s and that's the biggest oh that's the biggest I'm so tired and that's the end and that's the end of this episode call house call house call if you're still here tell me what you think about Michael Parsons being traded because we're going to go record about it right now