The Deep 3 Podcast - We Ranked The Most Valuable Players In The NBA | Ep. 155

Episode Date: August 22, 2025

Today we rank the top 30 most valuable players in the NBA to start a team with! And we're joined by Carson from  @Nerd_Sesh  ! Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D 0:00- Intro 2:08 top 30 most valuable NBA players 1:42:56- tiktok time Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Call 1866-531-2,600, or visit connectsontario.c.c. Please play responsibly. We've officially ranked the top 30 at every single NBA position. Ranking season is pretty much behind us. Year three is wraps. But, but, but we got one more today. We are taking a step back. And instead of ranking every player right now how good we think they are

compared to their peers of position, we're going to rank the top 30 most valuable players in the NBA as if we were doing an entire redraft of the league who we think would be the most, you know, sought after 30 players to rebuild teams with going forward future value. Pick on one more. Exactly. I love it.

And on top of that, not only do we got one more list for you. There's a little bit difference. We got one more man for you in this room. We got Carson from Nerd Sessioner, joining us to rank the most viable players in the NBA. How are you doing, Carson? Let's go. I'm honored to be here, guys. Very, very excited.

We appreciate you coming on. Yeah, obviously, we've been on a nerd session a couple times. First time having you on the show here coming to bring all the, uh, the nerdiness. The nerdiness. The trivia brain, the, just encyclopedic knowledge of historic basketball, bringing that to the show. The good looks, the charisma. People often forget about what.

And they point and they go, that circus freak who knows about all those 1960s players, what about my personality and my feelings as well? But yeah, I'm excited to bring it all. Oh, that guy with mental illness. That guy with mental illness on camera. Got to keep him over there. Bringing rain, man. Yeah, you don't want me too close.

Yeah, like I said, we're ranking the players in the NBA, the top 30 based on value, which the way we're kind of like putting the mental framework is like, said if the entire NBA was being redrafted you were a GM in charge of starting your team over again with the pool of current players who you'd pick in terms of who you want to start your franchise with so that could be to whatever you think that means whether it's a three-year plan five-year plan 10-year plan whatever your draft board would look like if the entire pool of players was available yeah it makes sense yes so with that being said let's get right into it I mean, I don't know what to say.

Pray on eaters, rejoice. So we can do this the same way we do every single ranking, but now we're adding a fourth person in, obviously. So we're going to reveal block by block of five players at a time until we all see our top 30, starting from 26 through 30, and we'll jump straight into it. Here's my first five names. At 30, I have Kevin Durant.

29, Steph Curry, 28 lamello ball, 27 Scotty Barnes, and 26 Anthony Davis. Damn, damn, damn. Scotty Barnes mentioned. Shout to him, sadly he did not make my list. That's surprising. Yeah.

And actually is surprising my end. I think I could have found room for him on my list, but Toronto is kind of weird, and I don't know how. He's the type of a player where, like, it's not his fault. It's not his fault. But the products around him is so wildly important.

And that's why he didn't make my list. I know. I put him lower and I thought it would too, just because I've kind of like had to come to Jesus' moment. with Scottie Barnes where I was like okay I overreacted to the rookie of the year campaign where I was like this is a future top 20 player he is like more of this you're on dick man you were crazy as fuck I remember that I read the 24 it's not crazy it's not that crazy top 30 24 I'm like man I do view him now as more of ancillary player that used to be a secondary star that

isn't going to be your best offensive player I still like him a lot but I view him more like the way I'd be like a bam out of bio on this list or whatever who spoiler ban out of bio is my first cut he was on this list I cut him at the end because I pretty much convinced myself to include Curry and Durant. I had to really, really convince to self to include the old timers, but they made it on just as I said, listen, if I,

maybe I'm viewing it with a five-year plan and I say they're going to have three more years of all-MBA and two more years, assuming they played till the 42 of lower-tier all-star production, I can convince myself that's better than having a,

you know, year-by-year, low-tier all-star and someone like Bam, who I'm sick of his, his offensive progression, or I guess I should say, progression, is really bothering me, how age 28, he already is like, his rim volume is like one third

of what it was three years ago. I don't know how his defense is going to age as an undersized center. So I convinced myself to go Curry and Durant over him, but I don't know if that's necessarily right choice. I mean, if you're Nico Harrison-pilled and all that matters is the next three to five years, I think they're no-brainers. Although actually he wouldn't want to build around Steph because defense wins championships.

But I think they're both still so great that like there is a threshold of, okay, you give me the next couple seasons. And I think those guys with the right infrastructure around them could both still be the best guy on a championship team like it's a high bar in terms of team building but they're that great right now yeah i would rather take that over like you were saying whatever period of low tier all-star stuff and i do think scottie's really interesting too because i've

never been the highest on him just because like i think his offensive game can be so clunky and like especially as a self-creator but like you said i think if you put him in a different situation he could be like the ideal number three with like the connective playmaking the defensive versatility, even versatility is his offensive strength. If he could just shoot like 34% from three consistently, then I think you're talking about a guy who like could be an all-star level guy and really play that role. The most interesting to me is Lamello. Just because I feel like with the availability stuff, man, like is he good enough

knowing that he's only played 35 games a year over the last few seasons to be top 30? Not really. he's also like Terry Durant Last second I convinced myself to put him on here Just because of the age thing And I tried to view it Based on like everybody in a vacuum

You know I'm redrafting I can control the environment around him I won't put him next to The abomination of a roster that's been around him Grant Williams won't be my roster Which I don't know why I love with him Miles Bridges won't be on my roster All the dash shit's crazy center rotation they've had

Won't be on my roster So I gave him a little bit of doubt And said if it's a I can fix him pick he's only 23 if i could put him in a smart system with a smart coach and i i bring on joe mazula steve kerr whatever ty lu great coach i have and i can put him in a good spot to utilize the size the off the dribble shooting get him back being more of a lead playmaker not a volume score i said there's enough there that i'll slightly put him on my list but yeah originally i had jaron jackson in that spot yeah i i think i can't remember because i had i had two guys at the at the very very bottom of my

list. And so I do think, I think for me, Lamello was, was like one of my first cuts. And it just, it just makes sense. Like, I don't know, like, if you're picking at this bottom range, you, you either have to get a guy that is going to, like, be at the top, top of the game, like a Curry, like a Durant, where you know you at least have three good years. There's like, even if Lamello was healthy, watching him and his on-court production is still like, is this still winning basketball? Yeah, that was playing. So, like, doubling down on that is super weird. I just feel like I would have been a huge lamello hater as of late for all the reasons you guys are saying, I completely agree.

I just tried to like put my biases aside and say, okay, there is a world in which he can be harnessed still in a better environment. So I'm giving him like slight credit to move him from like 33 to 28, just barely on the list. But you don't got to convince me. Listen, I thought maybe I just didn't want me the only hater. Apparently I'm surrounded by haters. So we can't hang on the me if we want. I'm just became the lamello truther on the pod. Apparently, which is crazy for me to be. That's crazy. Well, okay, let's be the next person. So at 30, I have. So at 30, I have, have Draymond Green

29 Jimmy Butler 28 Seyakum 27 Sangoon 26 and bam out of bio What the fuck Nico Harrison loves this list Real quick Before we

Um dive into why I have Germain Green there and all that I agree with you guys I or at least you I cut out the Mello Ball because if I'm really sitting here thinking about him

I don't He has one of the weirdest starts to his career true ever like when was the last time you seen a young player go ahead and win and all start or make it to all star game and then just slowly like his value and valuably but his career progression just doesn't look it isn't where you want it to be yeah you know we haven't seen no young player i don't know if ever missed this amount of games and like be able to bounce it back he's played like let me pull up his career career game yeah he's not a good trajectory so it is it is doing a lot hoping that he 36 games 22 games 40s

seven games. That is so much time missed and I don't know how to like. I don't know if I'm one is there at all. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Because all three of us are like shocked. I know. Like the words you're saying about Lamello,

I don't care about that. Dremont at 30 is ridiculous. I got to have Dr. Butler at 29. Please. Already on the precipice of the end of his prime. Seahka, 28th?

Yeah. What the fuck is happening? This is what I'm saying. You are just all about the dudes in their 30s. Exactly. So this tier right here. for the next, I don't know, two, three, maybe even five years, there's some of these guys that I'll rather have on my team because I know I will get like winning productive basketball and they will put, they will always be able to play championship level basketball, be in the finals, whatever it is, they'll find themselves in the right spot doing the things that they're the best at whether it be their defense, all three of them, super talented out of that end and just like being super connected like they all are. You know, like they've all got all of these guys have been featured over the last. seven years in every single NBA finals except for maybe one but um yeah that's my main

reason for that i don't think you've ranked jramon green your top 30 players in a single year in the past two years and now he's on your top 30 most valuable moving forward that's crazy because like when i sit here and think about value also thinking about like what do you do on the basketball court that is rare to find he is one of the greatest defenders like you sell like you love to say of this generation and he's not what he used to be defensively but he's not far off from at all that's fair i think the only way draymond makes my top 30 is if i already know that i have stuff on my team facts like if you're paying him if you're paying him with like kade or d mitch and somebody else whose play style isn't so like match made in heaven i i can't have him on my team

at this stage in his career i'll work with this guy in terms of like yeah this is my first pick he can never be you know like there's 30 there's 30 teams do you have a at 30, this is insinuating that one team is like our first pick in the 22-5 and the redraft is Draymond Yeah, like I'm only taking Dremont if I know that I have stuff. I also think for me personally, go ahead.

Well, I was just going to say, I feel like we're glossing over the craziest part, which is like, yeah, I don't think Dremont is a top 30 player right now, even though I'm really high on him, but he's also 35. And like Isaac is like justifying does. Well, like, I have Stefan Katie here just because I can get a few years. It's like, okay, those guys still surefire top 10 players, superstars.

Dremond has the age stuff, but also is like, again, still not a top 30 player right now. I think it's crazy. I'm a drama, that's the thing. But does he if you're starting a franchise today? No. He just not only has a top 50 value for that. Nah, I don't know about that. And Butler, I mean, Butler, I guess he's closer to the Durant argument.

So I guess I understand a little bit, but he's also like, I think three years from now will not be all-side level. I don't know, there's, like, if I was, if I was drafted. Seaccom? What about Seacch? We know he's a Seaccom truth there, so we'll let him. Yeah, what about Seahq? The guy who just made the NBA finals, the guy who just averaged like 21 in the finals. We, we literally went through it that Seacca was scoring 30, then 17, then 30 again.

What's wrong with that? We see that all the time. No, it's a second option. Why are you drafted a second option with your first pick? Why? Like, a second option. What do you mean? A second option.

A second option. is not a guy that is like a top 30 value like again siacum's great he's awesome that is much more of a hey tyrie taliburton has set the plate for everybody here to eat i mean like barons are also like second option so i'm not so eliminating sioux for that reason but it's mostly just like the other second options we include are a lot younger exactly yeah for sure that's where like i i'm seeacum is absolutely a top 30 player right now but he's 31 like i'm factoring age a lot like when i view you as an asset like is there any team in the league that would trade Scotty Barnes for Draymond Green right now

if they're thinking long term. No. No. And maybe the goal to say warriors. We did it to get back Draymond. We're clearly looking at with a much further lends into this. The only people above 30 on my list are the names here, Curry, Durant, Anthony Davis, who like are still so good and still have at least three years left.

I had to include them. Other than that, nobody touching 30 is on my list. Yeah, I think those guys are 29. Well, I think there's got to be two guys who just turned 30. There's a couple guys who just turned 30. If they're not on your list, Isaac, I'll run it on camera. There's a couple old. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Might go viral, but all right. At 30, I have Zion. 29. I have John. 28. I have Tyrese maxi. 27.

I have Tray Young. And 26, I have Anthony Davis. Wow. The Zion of it all is quite difficult. To explain that. So for Zion. So the tier with Zion, Jha, and Lamello, those three were really, really hard for me to figure out of which two I wanted to put on.

I think out of the three jobs accomplished the most, and the light is probably the brightest for him in the next five years or whatever, Lamello versus Zion at that point, I just think Zion's a better player than Lamello. So that's why I put him up there. But he's top 30 also because if I am starting a team with Zion, either it works or I can trick somebody into trading and I have a good asset

so like I think from that standpoint there's still enough people you so there's still enough people there's still enough people who can talk themselves into you know let's get a change of scenery for Zion we can get them into our program

I can fix him and then you can move that way that's why he's at 30 and then you know, for Jai, and then AD, Tray Young, Tyrese, I think, like, especially for Tray Young, like, and we talk about it, especially after the Pacers run, that has given me a lot more hope to, like, oh, you actually can create this, like, finals team with, with the, with the point guard who is a really good pastor and is not great on defense if you surround him with everything else that he needs. And that seems much more realistic now than it did a year and a half ago. So I, I like Trayong. I think he's, he's very, he's very,

underrated so I haven't met at 27 but like I'm a little bit higher yeah I haven't the the offensive inconsistency for me I'm still I'm still like parsing that like I still think it's possible and I still think that he's really good but I do want to see like at least can can I get 18 months as much as we've seen the up and now can I get 18 months of solid consistent the idea of tri young as this like efficient volume score type guy I do I do I do know we like we don't talk enough by the fact that we haven't seen try young have an effective inside the paint scoring season since they did the file changes

and since they removed some of those file drawing abilities of his he hasn't had a single season where he had above average rim finishing numbers or even really floater range it hasn't been as consistent of those before. So that is something I'm thinking about that like, okay, maybe those days I've seen 30 point Tray Young are probably gone

but I do agree that in general he has, the playmaking floor is ridiculous. We've seen the defense improve at least to competence from effort level. He's so small always going to be a target in the playoffs to some extent, but I feel a lot better about him than you do, I think.

Yeah, for sure. think that when it comes to over the last few years train young's value naturally is going to diminish when you don't have when you handicap his ability to play make play make out a high level of course like the systems are crazy but our offense still wasn't the greatest at all and now that they have certain pieces i think if we're to remake this list last year you probably will make them higher but i understand you're ranking for 27 okay let's see carson who do you have in this year yeah so i have at 30 zion then cat scotty barnes bam and Dylan Harper.

Harper? Yeah, buddy. Yeah, buy your stock now. I like that. I like that. I didn't know where to put him because I struggled to know how high the star ceiling is.

It's hard for me to imagine him the same way I do Cooper Flag as like being super confident in the star ceiling. But I completely understand. Like I seriously considered him. I didn't put any like rookie rookies on the list at all true rookies.

Yeah, I didn't pay any true rookies on my wait till you see my flag placement. No. Wait till you see my flag placement. I was just thinking like if I'm starting a team. crazy, buddy. He's got nasty, man.

How I'm valuing the asset? Like, I think Dylan Harper is one of the best guard prospects we've seen in recent years. I think that he checks so many boxes of being like straight up elite downhill finisher, such a valuable ability to be able to dominate the paint like he can where he's got this great combination of the athleticism with the craftiness, playing off two feet. He's got the excellent handle. He's a pretty high-level playmaker. He's got the tools to be a good defender.

He's got great size. I was like, if you could start a franchise with him or a known commodity like Maxi or Fox or some of these other guys who I consider it around the 30 spot, like, I think that the upside is considerably higher with Harper to be an actual offensive engine. I think the physical tools are a lot better. And I'm not afraid to bet on that upside. I'm putting my nuts on the table. I'm saying Dylan Harper's on my list. I'm GM. Slaping him on the table, man.

Slaping him on there. And that's not appreciated him I'm a guest in the show Like if you come on the show And you don't show nuts What are you even doing here? Exactly That's what I'm saying

And then I feel like Zion Kind of similar to Donovan Although I think I'm higher on Zion That was kind of just like my Fuck it man He's so good I'll put him in my last spot

Because the availability stuff Like it would scare me off of a jaw I'm also just not as high on jaws A lot of people are Zion obviously major availability Red flags But when I think about who he is healthy like a no doubt top 15 player per 36 this dude just averaged 31 9 and 7 on 60% true shooting

like on a per minute basis he's damn near putting up yonest numbers he's this like totally one of a kind rim pressure rim finisher his touch has gotten better his passing has gotten better he just breaks the game and so again if i'm comparing him to like a fox or a max you i'm like yeah they're a flawed second option i understand that zion is probably never going to play a fully healthy basketball season in his life. But I'll just, I'll take the chance because he's so much better when he's healthy. Yeah.

For me personally, I just, I had to leave him off my list because I've seen what Zion and the Mello's done to their organization when it comes to literally setting them back like four years. They don't know what to do, where to go. Of course, some of the blame is to on their own. They haven't picked right and necessarily haven't made the right moves.

But in general, when it comes to progressing, and getting to the playoffs and actually like seeing what this player actually has worked on and what his needs are on the court and stuff like that he immediately handicaps your future in my mind i see your point but i think to categorize the hornets and the pelicans as an organization and say they've been set back by zion and lamello is ignoring a whole lot of other bullshit that's why i said they haven't been great as well but i'm not blaming them like even like the main thing but i know you definitely is a harsh thing to team build around so i understand

in general. I also didn't have Zion too much higher. I haven't, not in this series, slightly higher, but... Oh, wow. Yeah, but just slightly, like, literally one spot. But I agree. It came down to, I looked at some of the names, like, Scotty Barnes. It's really, it's obviously just a matter of, like, betting on Zion ceiling. And if you can maybe luck into him being healthy, that, like, at a certain point, that threshold of him being legitimately a top 10 player when he's healthy, like, either it comes worth or not. And, like, I put him right above Anthony Davis just because I think AD has three more years of all NBA gay level probably and then two more years of all-star level where I'm like that short shelf

life and I don't think 80's in an age particularly gracefully just by his skill set so I slightly said I'll take the bet on zion the same thing with scotty barnes I don't think the ceiling is quite as high lamello obviously if we're talking about injury luck I'd rather go to the guy substantially better yeah like 80 again 80 gets hurt a lot also but I know that like he's he's also still way more consistent than yeah so like those three years I think for both of them you have to look at him in like three-year windows, I feel so much better about the next three years of Anthony Davis that I do about the next three years of Zion.

Yeah, year four, five, six, and seven is why he wins Zion. Exactly. But by the time we get to year four, four, five, and six of the next whatever, we're already like five years in, right? So then overall we're going to be at like year 10, year 11 of Zion. That's crazy. Saying the same thing over and over again. We're going to look up and he's going to be 40

and he'll never have played more than 70 games in a season, except for that one magical season that he actually did. Man, but that's what that season magical. I'll never forget. All right, Carson, you're up next 25 to 21. Who you got? So I've got KD 25, Steph 24, Triple J 23, AD 22, and Trey 21. I think I'm just pretty, pretty high on like this generation of the old flat-out superstars.

Like I think Steph was playing at a top five level down the stretch this season. I think that KD is still like kind of the ultimate plug-in-play super. star in league history. And I think he's going to be such a difference maker for the Rock. It's still so ridiculously efficient. The guy can shoot 55% from mid range, 40% from 3, get to his spots anywhere outside of actually getting to the rim at this point. But he still is one of the elite scores and players can give you a positive defensive impact when he's engaged. And then AD, he's obviously younger, so that's why he's higher. He does have the injury concerns. And that's a reality for him. He has been like mostly healthy over the last couple years, but obviously this

season he was more banged up. I just think he is still like such a force guy who can just like walk into 25, 12 and 3 efficiently, versatile offensively. And when he wants to be, can make a case for being the best defender alive. So yeah, I'm betting on all those guys. Triple J, I'm interested in where you guys are going to have him or what you guys think of that because I haven't seen him on any list. I think you mentioned it sounds like you didn't have him. Yeah, he's my first cut that I took off 4. I took off Triple J and Audubio for Curry and Durant just because I can convince himself that I can put olds on there.

And I mean, yeah, I had my 28th, 23, not a huge difference. I understand you being on the high end. I just don't know what, like, it really comes down to what is a team built around him going to do, and I went towards some guys that I feel like I can envision a higher ceiling with the first pick. Like I said, with Zion where I'm just like, okay, I'll bet on that. Maybe it working out in that way. But Jaron Jackson is like the ultimate floor player for sure.

like obviously if you get him you need to find get your hands out another perimeter based star because you don't want him to be a primary creator or anything right and yeah that's really the thing is like obviously he had a great year especially to start the season when they had that wonky offensive system built around attacking closeouts and no ball screens he fit perfectly obviously that is a system that isn't there anymore and i'm curious what the best case scenario of jaron jackson the offensive production is over the years with other stars because like he can definitely fit as a tertiary option no matter what space in the floor from that size essentially being a stretch four and a five on defense, it's incredibly valuable.

But I just don't know what the ceiling is as, I don't want to say primary option, because obviously you're not going to project him to be that way. But, like, as your best player, how much juice there is to be squeezed. That's fair. I do think he can be a really good number too, though. But he's a weird player.

And like, it wasn't a surprise to me that OKC's defense was a nightmare matchup for him. Like, he has to get so much better as a passer. His offensive game really is dependent on mismatch attacking and against the defense that great. Like, just everybody could hold up and they could bother his handle and bother him physically and he melted down.

But like Julius Randall also melted down. That OKC defense is so ridiculous. Best defense we've seen in a couple decades in my opinion that like I think a lot of people have probably come too far down on Triple J because he looked that bad in a ridiculously tough matchup, one playoff series. I do think he's 25. He played at an all NBA level this year. I think his offensive game has improved a lot.

Again, there's still stuff that needs to be worked on. But like just his combination of size, strength, handle and the ridiculous touch and the ridiculous ambidextrous touch were like those floaters and hooks left or right hand they're automatic and then defensively he's also weird because he's not like an anchor at the five exactly he has his limitations as a rebounder as a drop defender but he fouls too much he also is such a ridiculous rim protector and he's hell switchable that like he's still probably a top 10 defender so i just feel like that scoring and defense combination is really rare from a 25 year old he has his flaws but

I'm going to bet on long term, him getting a little better and being like a really, really good number two. He's not a guy I would want as my building block, but like I don't think there really are 30 of those guys long term. You're right. He's one of the highest floor players for everything you said. The defensive part you said is the hardest part for me is I always have a hard time parsing the value of his defense compared to some other more traditional guys like a Mobley or

whatever where like you said, in terms of talent, if we're going across checking every box, your skill set in every facet of defense, Jaron Jackson has some immense strengths. But like you said, it's super unique in where he's not like the most dynamo drop defender and pick and roll. The rebounding thing is an issue. Like, he is a big, small forward that can be a good weak side shot blocker is switchable. Like you said, like he can defend threes legitimately. It's a super unique style of defense that like is equally impressive, but I don't know if it's as valuable as some, you know, more traditional big man defenders. Yeah.

I agree. It's not like to the absolute best of the best. Like I don't think he's a top five defender, but he's still so great at what he does that I do think he's probably. top 10 for sure yeah and for the simple fact that just how rare it is to have a combination of all those things for me on my list he's much higher but i can i can envision 23 though too okay yeah okay let's reveal both you guys at once so we can keep pushing what do you guys got at 25 i have jalen johnson at 24 i've scottie barns 23 gary's garland 22 jaron jason jrondon wow jane johnson shout out i can't go lie he did not make my list because of the injuries he made

about 40 probably he'd be closer to 40 but But I respect the Jalen Johnson letter to pro Jalen Johnson podcast. It is. No, I, yeah, I really like them. Because I do think, like, especially if, because obviously, like, when him and Trey are there, because of the way Trey, like, plays and operates, like, the ball's always going to be in his hands, right? But also, we're going to, we might be able to get to a point in, like, two, three years where it's still very clear, like, hey, Jailon Johnson is the best player on this team.

And, like, again, like, Trey is, you know, handling the ball and he's setting it, everything up. but in terms of just overall impact, Jayon Johnson might be that. And I think especially this year, with the Eastern Conference being so weak, there's an opportunity for him in all of those Eastern Conference games to now take a leap forward,

have that all-star year. Because we've seen every single year for the last like two years, especially going into this year, we've been like, yo, Jalen Johnson, up and coming, Jaylon Johnson, he's here, and he just keeps getting better and better and better. Yeah.

And so I do think that from this point on, I think we'll see another jump. and then that's going to kind of continue. And then, yeah, so that's why he made my life. If you tell me next year, if consensus think Jalen Johnson's better than Scotty Barnes, that would not surprise anyone. I considered him for the exact same spot

because I'm like pretty close between those two. But I think Mo said it, like there's a little bit more injury concern with Jalen Johnson. But he's close to me. Yeah, I don't know. I actually really do like him. So yeah, so he's at 25. What do you got, Mo?

Yeah, Scotty. Oh, Franz Wagner's there too. He actually didn't make my list. What? Whoa. He didn't make my list. He should have made my list, though. Yeah.

But moving on. At 25, I have John Moran. 24, Darius Garan, 23, Jalen Brown. 22, I got Trey Young. And 21, I have LeBron. My King, Your King, Your Glory's King, 2, Ramon James. You're going to go out with the ship no matter what. You're going to rank him top 30 when he's 54.

Absolutely, because I genuinely think, yo, this year, or this past year, he was. a top 10 player. You can argue 11, 12, whatever. Next year, I think he's going to be probably a top 10 player still. Of course, sorts of back half of that. And the year after, if he plays again too, I think he's going to be the same exact thing. And I have to sit down and genuinely ask myself, too. I got to allow it, man. I got to allow it. Over the next three years, what I have, like, an all-star year from Jaylon Brown, Jerry's Garland and John Morant, or like a top 10 year of LeBron's names. I'm taking a top 10 player every single time. Three years of a top 10 player versus like five years of a top 25 player. I'm taking LeBron every

there's going to 24. It's like eight years of a top 25 player. Like that's what I'd rather have like the best of the best than someone who's like pretty all right. Okay. I know I would get that if LeBron was like two years ago. LeBron is closer to 18 best player in the league now. Okay 18. This is a drag. Well that's really not. That's low. That's low. He's closer to 18 than he is 10. Like he's there's 10 players. certainly rather have for next year. I guess about a math. Honestly still top 12.

I'd probably rank him like 13 or so if I really sat down, I'm sure. It's probably, you guys are probably right. But like, he's, the tear break is, he's closer to the guys that have in the back half of the teens rather than the guys that are like pushing for top 10 legitimately. Like, I think like Wembe might be the 10th best player right now if we ranked them.

Or pre-injury Jason Tatum or in post-injury Jason Tatum if you're going to account for Achilles hurt, if you drop from 5 to 10, whatever it may be. Stuff like that, like those players, I'm just going to think are a different. level than night and night out production that LeBron can still give. Obviously, he still has a defensive versatility because he puts more energy there without Luca.

We know he can still have those nice. Let's look at his 25. But I just think we've seen several playoff runs in a row that you can't rely on him to create consistent half-court offense by himself anymore. Like, he cannot be your primary creator in these lineups and really drive high-level offense. Like at a certain point, the on-off numbers, even though vanilla on-off numbers aren't the best indication, if we're like two, three years in now of the single-star lineups with

LeBron being negative offensively, I think it means something. He just can't be that guy consistently not in that out anymore. And it's hard for me to say you can be a top 10 player when that's just the reality where you are at your age. It's just the consistency for me, man. Like, it's exactly what you said, Isaac. I do agree that he's diminished a bit as an offensive player, but it's also like there are the months where like LeBron literally just goes out and plays like he's maybe

a top five player, right? Like what he was doing in February, December. he had a couple great months and then there's the months where like all right the jumpers off and he's coasting defensively and he gives you like 22, 7 and 7 on like not very good efficiency

and it's like that LeBron might not be a top 15 player so there's just more volatility with him now he is very because like you said like he obviously he knows better than anybody how to round out his skillset to make up for the diminished on ball skills that have come over the years so he has been defending

well his rotations have been crisp he still does all the passing still can be a rebounder still can finish with physicality in the post but he can't drive past anybody from the three point line anymore. He's not really blown by creating separation whatsoever and that's like pretty vital to his game translating at the highest level as the main on ball star

and that part of his game is like zapped. Yeah, I can see that for sure. And I think the Lakers haven't put him in the best position just yet to go ahead and like naturally go into that old man mode. Of course, finally you got Luca Dundjus and you've seen like him in this. I don't know if they have done a good job. I think it would have been. You think they have done it?

I think it would have been detrimental to him to keep AD there and keep having LeBron be like, you know, primary, primary creator. I think it's much better for him to be playing off of Luca. Yeah, I agree. And then doing that and then allowing him to be old man, brawn rather than, okay, I still have to, you know, drive this bus type of, you know, role. And obviously it did it, like, it didn't look good because, like, they didn't have a center. And so, like, you have, Bron, you're putting so much defensive pressure on it.

And just playing defense is. it's much more taxing than playing offense. And so into like doing all of that, I think that going out and getting Luca, that's much better for LeBron and his agent than it is to just say, hey man, like the team is the team you got to figure it out. Yeah, I agree.

Above all else, like we can quibble with whether or not he's 13th in the league, 17th, whatever, like he's whatever. He might play one more year. So it's hard to put him on the list when he has one or two more years of his career left. Like, I don't know if he has three years of prime left because I don't know if he has three years in the league left.

Yeah, I'm penciling that I think that he does have bare minimum three more. years left. How long until Bare minimum? Yeah, I think Okay, bare minimum might be a drag. Two more years left in the league. I think Luca would be, if they didn't have Luca, he's

fucking out of there. He might be out of then now. Huh? It sounds, that's drama. This is, we've seen this. No, I, nothing, nothing that LeBron ever does on social media is like, do I consider noiseless drama? Everything is something. Everything is something.

They are, him and him and his team. And the way that they move, listen, it's August. You know exactly what time it is. They're out here posting pictures on both talking about the summer of 22, 25. It's perfect to plan things for the summer of 26. Like, you know exactly what you're trying to do with every single post, with every comment. And like, that is what they do.

So I don't think that it's noise through his drama. But yes, he is like, it really might be one more year. Yeah. After last year, he was like, I don't know. I'm going to hang it up. Go ahead. Retire then. Also, I didn't ring Jenner Brown to Joe.

No, I did it. No, I did. I guess, yeah, I guess I could have like, I can understand that. I'd rather have someone like Jailen & Brown for now, maybe in the next year or two. Unless Franz Wagner genuinely makes real changes to that shot, I put them on there. But I'm not losing sleep over that. Yeah, it just seems like you're thinking about the next three years and we're looking further. So that's the difference, which, you know, to each their own, the value list.

If that's your window you're operating off of, I can understand the place in the point. I don't think Jailen Brown or Franz Wagner could ever be. I don't know if Ron Wagner, Garland, Jaron Jackson, Jr. Garland can. Anthony Davis. I don't know if there will be, like, a top 10 player sniffing that. That's why I'm like, LeBron. He still has a certain level of juice in me.

Thankfully, Luca will give him that grace. I got to roll with it. All right. What's your part? Carson, if, I don't know, you've never seen our rankings. LeBron, pencil in the LeBron love no matter what for most length. I mean, we appreciate it. I think right into the die.

It's bold, man, but I respect it. Go down with the shit, well. You got to respect it. Next up. Oh, wrong. order at 25 i have zion so again barely higher than the last year just the names below because of age mostly i'm like i guess i'll bet on i can if i have five years of zion hopefully i can fix them yeah 24 i've sangoon 23 i have cat 22 o men thompson and 21 franz wagner wow man

did you all okay wow man we'll get there we'll get there we'll get there you know i fucking adore men thompson since ricky year i want to put them a little bit higher i just tried to stop my nerd brain from like doing too much with this like the Swiss army knife defender he can cut he can do all this I was like okay we do so need to see him actually make some type of shot improvements maybe he never will like I don't think he'll be a great three point shooter like everyone's always like when he unlocks that three he's gonna be a demon it'll probably never happen but he will at some point unlock some type of mid-range game that is a compliment to a slashing but I do need to see that it develop I need to see the handle develop to the point where he can actually be the point guard we idolize

him to be able to be I need to see the on ball stuff actually take a step which I think it will but before I can actually put him next to like Sure Fire All-Stars that we know can be that offensive guy, I'm just going to hold back a little bit and not nerd-gasm too much but I won't be upset with you if you glaze him. Yeah, I definitely had a nerd-gazm. I mean, I'm gonna mend Stan, bro, so I'll say

my spiel for when we actually get to a man because he's higher-a-lawful. On this list in general, I held myself back from being too nerd-gasm to try to just like, okay, all things considered, not for the archetypes I love. I'll put some of these All-Star Point guards who I'd rather have amend then John Morant probably, but I'll bring John Moran slightly higher because we can see him,

blah, blah, blah. But if I'm going pure nergasm, there's not 15 players. I take over men right now, probably. Cook, cook, cook, you should have gone with that. You should have done that. I should have fed back from my biases a little bit and do all these considered. But if I didn't, I would be right there with you. Nah, man, this is your list.

Fuck all. This is your biases. You've got Shangoon pretty close to him, man. That's interesting to me because I'm not as high on Shangoon. Like, I do think this was an interesting year for him, it was an interesting playoff series because that was such a dirty rock fight and like everything was ugly

and you look for Houston and it's like the one guy who across seven games could like consistently at least get himself to a decent shot was Shangoon but then you look up and it's like his rim efficiency was terrible like his efficiency in the pan outside of the restricted area was really bad

still there's no jumper there to speak of low volume mid range no three whatsoever I just think it's impressive that he has like the the physical tools and the bag out of the post to like again get to a shot consistently against any defense the problem is he just has to be better at making those shots like his touch has to get better his finishing has to get better i'd love if he could figure out the jumper he's not a good play finishing big so like you need to run a lot of offense through him and kind of this like

ball stopping post up style like that's just the stuff with shangoon where like i see the talent but in his archetype there's a lot that needs to get better for him to be like top 25 value to me. I'm 100% with you. I have been labeled a Sangoon Hater by Rocket's Twitter. They have on several occasions post-clips.

And by the Turks? Yeah, the Turks have harassing. You don't want the Turks after you, bro. You should do that. They're insane. My clip has been posted on Rocket's Twitter communities many times for me saying like a year and a half ago

I said I'd rather have Chad Hong Kongan easily and they destroyed me in Rocket Twitter, which I was just fucking right. But I say it to say, long been a Sanguon Doutter so I'm with you. The reason I put him in higher here instead of like at like 30 is age strictly age like the guys below him like anthony

davis zion obviously is like the risk factor there but like ad age then curry and durant age st goon's just still so young and i'm giving him credit that the defense did improve i've been saying all year that i need to see him be good at defense and offense at the same time and we haven't seen that i don't know if it's an energy dispellment thing that by being so much more active as a pick pick and roll defender as a help defender that he doesn't have the energy to be as good a rim finisher and that's a fucking problem to me and I just until he develops a jump shot this isn't an archetypal player I'd ever want to roster but he's proven enough and has had enough of a trajectory that I gave him credit that for his age like if I'm looking at a draft board I'll probably

want to keep betting on a player that keeps improving to some extent yeah but like towns is much older but I just think he's much better so I put him one spot above a man I think the ceiling is a million times higher so I put him higher same thing with franz who him and fronds are probably similar levels of player right now but archetype wise I'd so much rather build around a player with Franz's skills and hope that his jumper can improve versus Sangoon and hope his jumper can improve that I give the archetype not there but it's really just a tip of my cap to a guy who's earned his spot

but I wouldn't particularly want to build around that type of player yeah yeah makes sense but if he was 27 he'd be nowhere closest list it's purely eight age thing that like maybe he can keep upper trajectory respect next up Moe who is your 20 through 16 20 through 16 at 20 I have K'd 19 I have Paulo 18 80 17

I got Kevin Durant and 16 I got Tyrese Halliburton. I have Cade significantly higher. And Halliburton's interesting. He saw, so what did you all do with the Achilles guys? I put him right next to each other. So to leave my list a little bit, 15, I got. I think I docked him like maybe like one spot

of where I probably would normally put him. But I'd put him in the range that like they would be. Yeah, I put him and Tatum both in the lower end of what the range I was thinking of. Just because like I was looking through the history of Achilles injuries, there's not really anything we can see in terms of. star players of this caliber at this age in this era like there's not really any comparisons to go off of i'm not going to assume it's kevin derrant and they're just come off scot-free because it is still a major injury but there's literally zero like young superstars

across the history of the league that i got hurt with this injury at this age yeah it's a very new thing of like young people blowing out there so i don't know what to do but i agree i put i have i think i've halbered and slightly higher that's why i just put them together because i'm just like i don't know i don't want to completely write them off because there's definitely still going to be some juice there but I don't if they didn't bother their Achilles clearly they're like both top 10 so why is Cade number 20 are you lower on his ceiling

I know we've talked a lot about his current right now he has more flaws and people give him credit for the burst isn't great the turnover is a problem inside the arc scoring is very like post-up dependent he doesn't create easy shots but do you not see that as stuff that he can improve on as time goes on so I can double up on those two things with Paula and Carol because in my mind

I view them in similar lights I think Cade is probably a better player right now but there's when it comes to come why group them together it's because they both have specific things in their game that are heavily dependent on whether or not they're going to be a top 10 player or not now if i also bet money i probably want to go ahead and do so but i when it comes to their weaknesses it's so hard to like build off of that you know yeah i've seen it we've seen it before happen in the past but i'm not asked confident that's why i gave some of the olds like anthony davis and

Kevin Durant that level of credit because I think Katie's weird and he's going to be playing basketball until he's like 45 or something like that and he's going to be like a top 15 player for the rest of his career probably. And same thing for AD is different but I think AD is a little bit younger and he's going to be playing for a couple more years at high level too. Okay. I think

Kate floor is so high that I am like a Kate realist in terms of his weaknesses being overlooked but he sucks so bad at some things right now and he's still all-star level that I just think that as he gets older and gets the veteran craft to make up for the lack of burst he has

and gets more and more crafty as a weird post-up type of guy that he's developed this year as he has hopefully better three-point shooting seasons as time goes on as the playmaking skills continue to develop.

I just think there's not 11 players I'd rather bet on than him. But for right now, if we're doing a three-year window, like you said, I understand him being closer to 20, but I'm with Kay, he's so young,

I view Kate on a 10-year window. That's fair. Yeah, I agree. And after these years, I kind of viewed it as like, I have five years of superstarting with you, 10 years, and that's kind of like how I chunked it in my brain.

I think I have 10 years of him being a star. Okay, that's fair. Yeah, I feel like the biggest difference for me between Mo's list is literally just timeline stuff. Like, I just feel like I'm valuing the long-term timeline more. Mo's valuing the short-term timeline more. But like, if I were to start a franchise with Cade or AD or Katie, like I'm choosing Cade every day of the week.

Yeah, yeah. I definitely understand that. I just feel like over the next five, I rather like put my bet in on potentially making the finals with this guy being my lead one or two guy or whatever compared to what could be. You know, I know for certain I will get there if I make the perfect infrastructure, but with someone like Kate or

Paolo or whoever else you want to throw in that line of names, it's more unsure. Okay. And listen, I'm also a Palo realist so I understand the thing in him for a three-year timeline. He is people would jostle back and forth or whether or not he's underrated or not. Like people with some certain types of fans will say he's the most

underrated star in the league. I think he might be the most overrated at this current moment, but the ceiling is still crazy. So I did give him substantially more credit here on this list that all the things that I dink him for for him being such a slow processor such a poor mid-range score and three-point shooter

for his volume so bad defensively at certain things that are very important from a player of that size all these things that I think makes him overrated in this moment I do so think he has the frame has the skill set to probably get better at those the time goes on

so I think three or four years from now he will be the superstar people want him to be it's going to take time with him so I put him top 12 I think but again for three year window I totally understand this okay

Carson who you got next So I have Garland And then I have Devin Booker Donovan Mitchell Jalen Brunson Franz Wagner So this was kind of like a tier of me Especially with the Brunson Mitchell Booker Of I was like all right these are my 28 year old Really good offensive guards who are either top 15 players Maybe book is just outside of that right now

But I know who they are I have like a pretty good amount of time with them left But there are due to our younger and who have the potential to grow into more and flourish. So I have Garland like just below them because I would be pretty impressed if Garland ever got as good as like a Jalen Brunson is right now. But I am very high on Garland as an offensive talent. That's why like, wow. I had him one spot above Tray. I think they both have the potential to be like really great offensive engines. Tray has done that where like you put him in a situation with Atlanta where he's got a bunch of mediocre to bad offensive talent

around him, not good spacing, no other creators, especially once Jalen Johnson got hurt. And he still made them a pretty good offense when he was on the floor, just because like on ball, such a great playmaker, gets to the line at such a great rate, does have the floaters. Garland has never been in that position. He's never had that sort of offensive volume, but I do think he's such a great pick and role player. He's such a great passer. And he has a different ceiling in terms of scoring efficiency, right?

Just with being such a ridiculous pull-up shooter. And his floater game is absurd. He shot like almost 60% on floaters. doesn't get to the line, which is a difference in terms of taking on that offensive volume, but then the big advantage for Garland is just like the off ball stuff, where he's one of the best off ball and on ball guards in basketball offensively. I get that he sucks defensively. I'm just going to bet on that guy.

And then I'm high on Franz. Like, I don't think I'm the highest. I'm not a Franz truther, but I guess I'm the highest on this list, honestly, by a little bit. I just think, like, he is literally a remotely consistent three ball away from being an all-MBA player right now. Like he is an elite driving forward. If he's just slightly above average, he's Paul George. Yeah, like he's an elite driver, elite finisher, legitimately,

elite in transition, great size, great footwork, great touch, really good passer, good versatile defender. If he can just stop bricking every three, which is crazy because he shot it fine in his first two years and then just totally regressed. And like he does have really good touch.

He's almost a 90% free throw shooter. His paint touch is really good. Like the mechanics need a little bit rework. It looks like he's actually done a little work on them overseas this summer. And I just think if he puts that together, like what an ideal complimentary do-it-all wing. And he's still, that's an all-M-A player. 23? Yeah, he's got a lot of time to get it together.

Yeah, but the biggest issue is the fact that what you said of like, he shot it well and then he's just gone down and down. And like he shot so poorly in the playoffs last year that like coming into this year, you're like okay obviously bad series right you're you're going to go back into the lab you're going to work you're going to get better and then we see it in the regular season and it's still not fixed and then we get to the playoffs again and then it's like under 20 percent from three like this is got even worse like I I've the the fall off has been has been it's just been insane to the point where it genuinely is like worrying yeah I'm no longer that it's not

going to ever get back to to 35 percent exactly I'm no longer at the point where I'm assuming it is I think like I really want it to be and like I agree if it does this is a top 15 player I want I'm just like it's it's been so long and it the mechanics are so weird it's it's you when you see this type of thing where the mechanics get destroyed over the years and the player shoots wonky I feel like that's something that in their modern NBA we don't see them like necessarily become a great shooter from and he doesn't have to be great he can be league average and it's enough but yeah I've just seen enough that I'm like it's kind of like the MN thing I'm like holding my ergasm back and saying okay let me see some progress. here before I just write in when this happens he's a god I'll just I'll wait until I see it slightly but I'm with you if it does happen he needs to be in this tier the reason I think it's different from a man is like

Franz has shot it well before he has the touch he didn't come into the league with like the busted mechanics that a man had so I agree it's been very concerning I just think he has shown a lot more positive traits as a shooter and again he just has to be average you want some propaganda this is full on propaganda

But if Franz had shot 35% from three in that playoff series this year, he would have averaged 29.5 points per game on 58% true shooting. Full on hypothetical, because he shot horribly from three. But like the self-creation with that terrible spacing around him was so impressive. Exactly. But like everything else is so good. I don't know. I can't give up on France.

I'm not giving up on him either. He's right below, so I'm with you. At 20, I have Darius Garland. Same reason you said. He's just the best second star I can imagine to playing with a star big man. It's like him and Cade, I think, are the two guys that I'm like, I want to see you play with an Anthony Davis type. I want to see you be able to have your skills be harness as a second option lead playmaker

guy more than primary score. And that's always going to be Garland's MO, I think, which is incredibly valuable. 19, I have Trey Young. 18, I'm not going to lie. 18 at Jha. That's one of the names when I'm shuffling through everybody. I kind of just like, people got moved up and down. and I kind of like

forgot about him I really should have him in the tier below I'd rather have Garland pretty easily he just kind of got lost in the shuffle I don't believe this

whatsoever I'm respected yeah so made a mistake 17 Donovan Mitchell 16 Jalen Brunson I'm with you the Devin Booker

Brunson Mitchell is like a clear tier to me Brunson is the best one of those three right now and all the same age but I do think Spoiler

Devin Booker's 15 I do think Devin Booker will age the most gracefully of those three with the size off ball skills as the passing won't go away

when Brunson and Mitchell just by nature of their size especially obviously Brunson we know like guards that aren't the most athletic and are small like you're operating with you have just enough burst to get your game off when that goes it goes so I won't be shocked if when Brunson is 33

he's the worst one here and DeMitch I feel like is sneakily similar but at the opposite where he's like really athleticism based and not to say he's not skilled he's a fantastic shooter he has the wingspan

to be a little more to shuff defensively the other two guys than Brunson is he has his own strengths that could make him age well but I think he's worse than Brunson now and he has 6-2 on a good day so like I could also imagine him aging

worse than Devin Booker who I think Devin Booker will age incredibly well Yeah that's not a terrible take But it is We are correct in that Those three because of like their age And kind of just like their overall placement In the league right now

It is them three and they have to move in a pack Yeah yeah What you got So at 20 I have Durant 19 I have Shingoon 18 I have Steph 17 is Booker, 16 is Mitchell, and then, spoiler alert, 15 is Brunson. Ooh, Schengun at 19. So you're similar to me that you're respecting him

and you're respecting the progress he's made, but you're really respecting him. I like Sangun a lot. And I think that, like, the age with Shangun is very, it's very enticing. I think also the fact that, like, a lot of times, whenever we see guys, like, be really, really bad at defense, it takes, like, a long time for them to, even become like passable yeah and the fact that shangoon could do that pretty quickly i'm like i like that that is a critical improvement in a critical area and it happened pretty quickly or faster than than what you would think so like that to me shows you can you can you can you can't

you can be versatile in how we need you to play and things that like if we tell you in the offseason hey we want to do x y and z you are able to um to change your game in order to fit what we need And I like that. And I do think that for his ability to play, like, in the post, his passing skills, you can do, you can do some really, really good stuff creatively or offensively. It's also just the fact that, like, nobody on that team outside of him, like, nobody's great shooting either. And so I do think that, like, that's also an area where if you are building an offense around him, you can get away with it if you have more passable shooters than what you have in Houston. Especially as a playmaker. His assist numbers could be a lot better

because he's particularly good at setting up three-point shots from that post when he draws two bodies. That's like his, honestly, that's his greatest strength is being able to set up three-point shots and obviously they don't make the most of that.

I think we applaud San Goun's defensive leap he made this year going from bad. I don't think I can win with him to get enough to exist and have this be an elite defense because he's surrounded by elite talent and he's doing his part. I don't necessarily see that as being

like some linear thing where he's going to keep getting better at this age. No, I don't think so. I don't think I'm not saying you do either. But I think he'll be fine and that's kind of the ceiling as he'll be a fine defender, which is good if he's in a continual offensively

to become better and better and get to be a premier offensive big. And I'm just scared that there isn't the scoring juice there to really make a huge leap. He can be better as a rim finisher than he was last year just because we've literally seen him do it before. Last year was his worst interior scoring season. So I imagine that it's better. But like you said earlier,

unless he really develops a jumper, which we haven't seen at all, I just don't see him becoming like a top 10 scoring big man, which I think is necessary for him to be like a premier talent. I think he can't do that. I think the fact that like he's so talented offensively that this year, even though that all of like the close room finishing wasn't great, I'm willing to say like that's your one year, right?

That's your down year. And even if we're not going to get to like 90th percentile room, you know, finishing or like the floaters not going to be the best in the league, whatever, that's going to come back up to a level that is good enough to where now that the defense is like passable, we can. get to a place where like obviously if you're going to win at the highest level you're still going to need somebody like like jabari who can who can be a versatile format who can cover up for him in certain areas like there is still a very specific team construction that's needed

but i do think that sangoon can be a player that elevate you know what i think and i do like him a lot i think he's not that talented offensively i mean wrong with verbiage he's talented but like i don't think he's supremely talented all the turks are coming for you buddy i know but but no no no i think he's supremely talent uh supremely smart offensively I think his offensive IQ is really good. His understanding of help defense and had manipulated it and how to kick the ball to shooters and control offenses is extremely like extremely talented between the eyes.

His IQ offensively is really strong. I just want to see the tangible skills develop, which is the part that I think I'm worried about. Skills being shooting, finishing, especially creating shots that are like easier rim attempts, not having to be so difficult. I'm worried that those skills aren't necessarily in line with where his IQ is. I see why you use the word talent.

So you're scared of those natural skills just being gifted as a score and all that. He's a gift of an offensive player, but not because of the talent. But I think it's more about the IQ, and he understands offensive basketball really well. Yeah, okay. That makes a lot of sense. I see what I see what you mean by that. I feel like the second that he steps on the court with four or three shooters bare minimum,

who are actually like consistent, whether he, KD, Jabari, DFS now that he's there. Reed Shepard, if he goddamn gets a minutes too, bro. I think he doesn't probably need to be like 90th percent higher or whatever. I think he'll probably regress back to where he was just a year, just a year ago. and I think he can maintain I think you maintain this position for sure that you haven't yeah there's also like once you start

as we get into like this higher tiers and stuff like that like you really are separating the like the players that like I know you're good and in like the best case scenario right we can get to to the finals or win a championship whatever

but it's also for some of like the younger guys is like who do I want to bet on and I like singling a lot because of what you said he's smart and he's a dog smart listen smart dogs

is man's best for him that's one of the best things that you can have and so I'm going to bet on the smart dog who's a who's a dumb dog like who's like a like what's like a like

what's like tabbv dumb dog sorry uh that's what do you say that's your mama

yeah okay next up Dom and what's you're 15 through 11 at 15 I have Brunson 14 of 13, I have Amin.

12, I have Tyrese Halliburton, and 10, and 11 I have Chet. Okay, a man 13. I love it. You want to talk about smart dogs. You want to talk about killers. That's what I, listen, I see Amin Thompson. If I ever shake his hand, I'm going to look into his eyes, and I'm going to know that I'm looking in the eyes of a killer.

I trust Amin Thompson to grow and to be as great of a player as anything in this world. That was a perfect intro for an edit. I want to see that's what I was about to say. Somebody make an amend edit with that killer line and send it to me on Twitter. Amen is going to be so good. I like I don't I don't care. And again, this is at the point where it's like for the young players where we have to take the bet. I'm going to draft a man.

And every resource I have, you will go to Leta Shooter Sleepaway Camp. Yeah. I will have Chris Brickley call you every single night. Drew Handlin on strictly jump, jump shot related stuff. You guys will face time at lunch. Like we're having one-on-one meetings over Zoom. Everything would be focused towards a shooting. I'm okay putting in all of those resources

because I know that a man will be willing to take everything and is going to do everything in his power to be a better player. I want him on my team and I want him on my franchise so bad. Let's go. I should move him 10 spots on my list. I'm telling you my first draft, I had a man top 10. Wow, really, your first draft. My first draft was the list out of my top.

You came out of the woodworks double-fitting. That's great. I love a man top. I'm right, Carson, who's your 15 to 11? I'm right there with you. I've got a men 15, then I've got Paolo, Jadub, Halley, and Cade. I mean, I'm also in love with the men. I was thinking about the edits.

Have you guys seen, there's some great ones, but the one where Asar says, a man was an aggressive child. And it's just a man. No, I need to see that. Oh, he's the best. But yeah, I think, like, the thing with a men is the floor to ceiling ratio is so, so high in the sense of like already a man is awesome

a men's already pretty clearly a top 50 player in my opinion just because of what he does like absolute transition weapon phenomenal cutter best offensive rebounding wing in basketball in my opinion the best non big defender in the NBA right now shout out to Caruso I'm missing on this glaze session man I should have put him on my list

god damn it yeah you got to get him on there because he's unbelievable but like just that ridiculous defensive versatility the shot blocking ability the defensive playmaking the fact that he can switch on to the post and he can also like be one of the best step defenders that we've ever seen it's ridiculous and then he has not nearly tapped into what he could be as an on ball creator to what he could be i'm never going to say that a man is going to be a good three point shooter or a good jump shooter i think that's just really optimistic when you think about what we've seen from him his mechanics his resume as a shooter

so far the bar to me has always been if a men can be an average jump shooter he could be top five player because he is best in the world at so many things dude like it's ridiculous and you could see that potential from when he was a rookie just because he's literally top five craziest athletes we've ever seen in the league and the basketball IQ is so ridiculously high and he's already trending up as a shooter like obviously he needs to get better but you can't downplay the difference of like him having no midrange game whatsoever as a rookie and then shooting like almost 40% for mid-range and actually getting to the mid-range pull-ups at times hitting a game winner.

Yeah, you can't overstate, like, the paint touch being pretty bad as a rookie, and then this past year he shot like 45% in the paint outside the restricted area. He doubled his three-point percentage. He was coming from hell, but like, we saw significant improvement this year. And so I think that it's reasonable to expect him to trend upwards to the point where, yeah, maybe he does become an average shooter, and then we're talking about best perimeter defender best rebounding wing best transition player best athlete really good passer unique ball handler for his size freakiest first step you've seen from a six seven dude

outside of lebron circa 2009 like that's what i see in a men so again if the floor is a top 50 right now and the ceiling is maybe a top five guy i think he has to be here there are guys who i would say i'm just a little more confident in hitting their ceiling because the jump shot is such a question for a man but i love the guy i'm convinced Put Amanda 15 on my list I love Devin Boehler That was the greatest Glazed performance

I've ever seen on this show Deserved one You have been out glazed To do better It's crazy But I don't disagree But man that argument Was compelling

Yep I'm putting a man to 15 Devin Booker Kick Rocks for 16 So spoiler I have Booker at 15 I have a men Thompson at 15 So a men Thompson 15

Tyre's Oliver in 14 JDA up 13 Pallow 12 Chet 11 I wanted to put Chad Topton really bad I put him down because I kept Tatum top 10

because at first I didn't know what to do with the Achilles thing because he tore his fucking Achilles and he might be cooked we don't know but I decided to just give the guy's credit and say if I would have put Tatum at 5 or 4 I'll put him at my 10 now

so I slit Shet Hongren out of my top 10 but it feels disgusting it's against the brand for me to not glaze Shet Honggren as much Yeah it feels bad

I don't appreciate myself for doing this I feel great shame I had to take some lashes I got your back I did the glazing for you thank God he's way higher

at least somebody he is talking Abraham Lincoln for me but yeah he's 11 for me he really spiritually is top 10 to me I don't know like if I was on the draft board I don't know if I could take Jason Tadon with the torn Achilles but I decided to give him credit and not slander him when he's at the lowest so he's one spot above

but other than that yeah I mean Bankero is another one that like people will want us to put him like top five because of like the ceiling of being that big that skilled that mobile all the tantalizing things she's the next brawn moves like 2018 brawn all this stuff I just I have so many question marks that I don't have with some of the guys above him like if you tell me

seven years from now when they're all at their peak best season chet hongren is the eighth best player in the world and palo and caro was like three i can imagine that world but i can also imagine a world where some of these things for palo are just intrinsic to who he is and he never improves in some of these areas and maybe he is perpetually a 10th to 15th best player in the world and doesn't quite hit that upper ceiling people want from him that's super possible to me so i dinged him a little bit. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, I'm with you though.

It does, it did feel weird not having checked in, in my top 10. Yeah. But it's all good. But, and again, with Halliburn, Halliburn probably, he might be like at 10 if he didn't, if he didn't, you know, tear his Achilles. Oh, he would have been at eight for me if he didn't tear his Achilles. Yeah.

I will say, I am surprised with you that J-Dub isn't at least a slot higher over a man. I am surprised, yeah. Why? I don't know. I mean, obviously, Jadov is like the more complete safer bet right now for obvious reasons. But defense, obviously, I don't want to say it's incomparable defenses because Jadab is so damn good. But he just, like, developed the shot blocking and the like weak side room protection on a consistent basis this past year. For Jado?

Yeah, for Jadov. I think the defense is super comparable. I think Amends a little bit better. You're right. Yeah. But the reason I'm okay with him, I'm in one spot higher. is jada's pretty close to the ceiling i think he's 24 you know like yeah you kind of are who you are 25 usually so maybe it's a little more steps to do maybe we see the jump shot come more consistent

like we saw two years ago and really like the full package still but i think he largely is close to who he is so a man is obviously nowhere close to what he is even though he's probably older than people realized to he wasn't the youngest prospect in the world but i understand giving him in a little bit more of okay you know imaginary the long term because i do think like a man if a man hits his ceiling he's like cars he's a guy who is going to be top 10 top five and can and can lead a team i'm not sure if jadub's offensive arsenal and his on ball chops are going to get that much better than what they are right yeah yeah okay who do you got okay so 15 i have tatum 14 i got jadab i know yeah it sucks 13 i got demits 12 i have brunson and 11 i have devon book so i did the exact same

brain exercise as well i think devon book is probably going to age the best Jalen Brunson, natural, I think he's going to age the worst and DeMitch is DeMitch, so Yeah, yeah. Brunson's best now but age the worst. Booker, probably worse now, but age the best. DeMitch is like a nice balanceable, so I understand

the thought. That's fair. Do you think we're all not giving enough credit to the fact that a Achilles injury could be career prime ending? Do you think we're all giving too much greater? I didn't want to. I just didn't want to be a downer like that. I was like I'd rather be optimistic, but like if I were a GM, And actually my job was on the line.

Maybe I would be a little bit lower on Tatum and Halley. I was just like, I'll ding on a spot or two because they're missing a full season. And it is the worst possible injury you can suffer as a basketball player. And it's really not close. The track record is really concerning. But like you said, Isaac, there's not really a precedent for superstars mid-20s with modern medicine. I would just like rather err on the side of being optimistic than be like, yeah, I think they're done. What scares me is I think both their games are pretty predicated.

on the burst they have and I think if both of them don't have that same burst I think it could get scary like Katie lost a step after the Achilles but he's the most gifted shooter of all time

the highest high stuff a huge off ball player of all time like all these things worked out for him that it was fine none of those things are true of those two guys

I put Hallbrum I was fine keeping him kind of high just because I think the playmaking will still be the playmaking and his style of play his ethos

what he brings like he'll be Rondo if he has no first step anymore which is still a great player to have the ridiculous value minus defense

yeah Marno soon 40% plus shooting shit Yeah, exactly. So, like, I, but I do think his, like, herky jerky style of on ball creation is, like, really predicated on, like, the first step he does have

and being able to get by people. If that's gone, I think he could have, like, zero juice as a on ball isolation score. And same thing for Tatum. Like, he does have the size of shoot over people. Maybe he could adapt over time. But I think it could get real disgusting if he's slower. Yeah.

So, like, so with Halliburne, Haliburins plays, like, it's honestly disgusting how much faster he plays than everybody else with so far ahead of everybody that even if you do bring him back to the pack and he's like 75% of what he is, he's still playing faster than half the lead. Like I do think that like his innate way

of how he wants to play of playing faster, playing with pace, right? Because of that and because he is extremely smart and a great decision maker, I'm still okay with with Halliburton and his future. And then with Tatum, it's kind of the same thing. We're like,

if we've seen him defensively be, like super versatile and kind of move into like this floor if he doesn't have the doesn't have the burst and he's not like as suitable on on the perimeter that's fine he's still six nine six 10 he's super strong like you're just gonna tell him like hey put on put on five pounds you're just gonna guard force now he might just be ogen an obi yeah like the burst is gone and that's that's it and so i i think like defensively tatum's floor is still super high offensively we'll we'll see like people just have to get crafter as they get older anyways so maybe maybe that's something that he was already working on but I'm with you Carson like it was it's it's super weird to

to be like yeah they're gonna suck now yeah like they were already at the best and I don't think we're at that point in medicine or in the NBA where like if you tear your Achilles you're going to go from all NBA to like oh you should not be on a roster see we say that but it's only we only say that because of KD we have no other precedent and KD is the most uniquely skill player of all time in that way like perfectly built to deal with an Achilles tear really we'll learn a lot from him Dame and Tyre Tiberton three different from players through ages. On a much lower scale,

I saw Canemakers come back from an Achilles from in like August and they was running playoff snaps in January. I've seen, I've seen that and that's honestly, Kenmakers sucked after that's honest. He played. But that's my point. That's my point is that.

That's my point is that that's the only, that's the only case of somebody in their like mid-20s that we will have to really to really point to. Like Kobe was 34, KD was, you know, how old he was. So what I think is actually encouraging is neither of these guys have to rush back. They've already accepted we're missing a full season. So I think like being able to have like a 15 month recovery instead of like trying to push a 10 month recovery. Like that makes me feel better with the age because like I do think Dame is cooked.

Like I don't think Dame is ever going to be the same. But Dame is in his mid 30s and he's a small guard. So it's different. Hallie, it does concern me though. because I think you said it well, Isaac. Like, obviously, the step back three is a weapon of his, but it's using the threat of that with the shiftiness that makes him so effective beating switches and whatever.

If that shiftiness goes, that's a problem for a guy who, like, kind of needs to make the most of all the scoring juice he does have because that's already not his greatest strength. Yeah. Tell him to get back. Let's go. Yeah, I agree with that. That's why earlier in my list,

I did have Tatum slightly above Halliburn, just one spot. And I do think Tatum has. the best chance of succumbing this because of the random ancillary skills that he's developed over the last few years becoming one of the best rebound probably like the best rebound or one of the best rebounds at his position along with like developing being one of the best pastors of his position too i think he has molded himself really well over the last few years which was literally the reason why they won a championship and i think he'll just continue to figure out ways to actually be viable and i don't think he'll be able to escape by like katie because he's not all

But I think he's good enough to still potentially warrant this spot. I'm really worried about his on-ball scoring. Yeah, that might be fine. It's going to be more post-up. It's going to be more strength-based, straight mismatch attacking, I think. But, like, that's an old-man skill set. I could see him getting better at that. He'll have to, for sure.

I worry that the days of him, like, a 28 points per game go-to-score are gone, and we're going to have to see him be, like, a second scoring option, whether it's Jalen Brown or a trade that, you know, you can see Brad Stevens pulling out of his ass any moment to get another, like, lead creator, like him play next to a demitch type I feel like that's the evolution needs to happen depending on how the progression goes

It is good though They both do so much at a high level Like Tatum is literally Mr. Versatile Like he's the most versatile player in the NBA right now Howley offensively I mean like just the pushing pace The whole identity the selflessness The genius playmaking the off ball stuff

The shooting like all of that stuff Should hold up very well And that's why like I do still view them both As great building blocks just philosophically they're both really easy players to build around so I'm just being optimistic here and not talking too much. Let's be optimistic. This was glaze today. Next

up who is your 10-3-6? Here are these bigs. I got Triple J at 10. Chet Hornbrent 9. Mobley at 8. Steph Curry, 37, 36 years old. Still a week. I got him at 7, an anti- Edwards at 6. I'm very curious

at how Curry and Jaron, they're so different. Like, I'm curious. I will say those two together. I will say, I will say. I've seen a clip of Steph Curry being interviewed and the interviewee asked him, the interviewer asked him, oh, like, when his like retirement looming and he looked at the interviewer like he was fucking, the interviewer, like he was fucking crazy, bro. I think he's definitely going to play at least like three, four more years. Okay. And seeing how he got, again, similar to LeBron, how his battery got recharged with Jimmy Butler on that roster, seeing how he was able to just immediately like roll into 27 points per game, get back to.

shooting like the ridiculous 42, 43 percent shooting from three that he's been doing his entire career. I think he has that level of spacing and that skill set will not go into where. Of course, the quickness is like the conversation. Of course, like the injury issues is a real conversation. But I'd be willing to bet all my jewels that he'll be able to just like, yeah, all your rubies and pearls. All your world.

We've already realized you brought up in different timelines. You're a five-year window. Then I get the curry thing. Jaron to me is more confusing. I understand I'm the lowest on Jaron I put him at 31 but I don't know 10 seems like I don't view him as that type of ceiling whatsoever

So I think the thing With Jaron for me is that Again if you're big and you can defend You're really going to get a boost But he is a different type of defender You guys made great points earlier as to why he's just Indeately different than someone like Evan Mowgli And Ted Hongrum

I think if you put the right defense of the right big man Specifically around him He is like the greatest gap filler or the greatest like whole feel to like go ahead and affect so many areas of the game no matter what your what your one two or three can do on the defense he is ultimate complimentary players so I understand that yeah I would like to say something if you're if you're big man defender needs another big man defender so that he can be great he is not top 10 you're great I can't I can't I can't do that if that is your reasoning for why this for why this

DPO Y is going to like is going to reach his potential is because you're all you are also going to bring in another elite or like high level defending big man you cannot be top 10 on this list then like that that negates all it doesn't because what he does outside of that though too that's why i'm like what get the four rebounds a game like no we're talking about that it's about the ability to switch as well and look at the guy in front of the space of that i can handle you two alongside at times the one to two and the three on the team and hold on his own that's why i think you're making the big man different stuff but that's that's that's exactly my point is that his his value and his

his versatility, there is a place for it on this list. I do understand that. But top 10 in if like, if his best go, because again, even though that he made that leap offensively, his defense is still probably like his calling card, whatever, if the, if the best way for you to maximize that is to have a very, is to have a very specific and rare archetype in terms of having like another top eight defensive big, that that negates your value a little bit. I think you would make a different, though, too. too. I think what makes it different

too for him is that he has, he's the best shooter at his position for his size. You know, there's a, I love Chet Hongrim, I love Evan Moved, I love the leaps that they made as well. And I can, outside of Wemby, too, of course, he is a fucking flamethrower on that. And he hasn't been the most efficient over

the last few years because of the type of offense that they've been running and et cetera. But I think that, adding that caveat to his game and what he's been able to do when he comes to doing a little bit on ball crazy stuff. Of course, like Carson said earlier, massive gap that he has a part of his game is his lack of processing when it comes to delivering the ball to certain players at certain spots on the court that's a that's a real gap for sure he's a

very good shooter he's far from the best at his position at his eyes so that that's a difference there I don't think he's the best shooter for positionary when it comes to his profile as being like a defensive first dude that's what I meant by that and he can but if he can't be like a self-starter on defense and like you have to go get like if if your defense also works best in in this other infrastructure you like if I if I have like all of the other bigs that I have in top 12 whatever from here on out outside of like one guy you're the anchor yeah you are you are the anchor we are going to be a top 12 defense minimum minimum just because you are out there and you can affect everything geron can be that to be fair like he used the verbiage next to other bigs and you're taking it

like he needs to be next to go bare I don't think that's what he meant but I know what you're saying that what's the worst big you can put him next to and you'd be like okay yeah the Kavana Luni, like, I don't need anything. I don't need an outrageous defensive guy. I just need someone to I also forgot you're very high on Kvon Luhn He just, I think what you meant is he just don't want, he doesn't need to be the five anchor,

you want him to be the four defending like Janus did next of Brooke Lopez and unlock him as a helpside defender so while he might not be the traditional drop big like a Mowgli, there's a lot of value if you can put him next to that drop big which hopefully he can be or Luni could be and you're saying Jaron could be unlocked in the right scenario. I mean, yeah, the bar's not that high.

It's like with Stephen Adams, they were a top of the line kind of defense. It's just he does need somebody who can fill those gaps. But that's where I just couldn't have him top 10. He's just too weird and he's just too flawed. But he is really good argument. That was a good assessment of his value. That just to me is why he should be 21 or something like that.

The people in the 10 can be like either like Holmgren can be your walking top 5 defense or somebody like Edwards can be your walking playoff offense that can kill everybody. Some of these other guys aren't the complimentary guys that Jaron is. So I don't think this is a tier for like the perfect compliment but I do think you made a good case for why he is the perfect

compliment. If he were a decent passer, then I think I'd be closer, but that's just such a problem. Exactly, because the shooting is just a little inconsistent. I mean, it's good, but it's not great. Yeah, if he was lobbying as a shooter, I would completely understand it. Like, okay, now we're cooking. This is a player that you can build around. Like, I'd get it. Could you imagine if you combine Lowry and Jaron Jackson in a lab? That's just asking Larry to show up on his strengths. All right. Donovan, who do you got? At 10, I have Palo at 9. At 9.5 Kade. I have Mobley, seven, I have Tatum, and at six I have Janice. Okay.

At 10, I have Tatum. Nine, I have Cooper Flag. First flag mentioned. Eight, Cade Cunningham, seven Evan Mobley, six Edwards. This is Reville Carson. We'll talk about all these. Yeah, so I have Chet at 10, Tatum at nine, flag at eight, Mobley at seven, and at six. Okay, so the flag of it all, I was very tempted to put him above Kate Cunningham.

I went with Cade just because I think. We've seen him this year. He can be your lead playmaker and make you a playoff team being the engine of your offense. I do think like I said earlier, he has some flaws that go overlooked, I think the turnovers are a bigger issue

to me than some people. I think the lack of bursts and on-ball creator will prevent him from ever being like above-average efficient volume score. He'll always be hovering around league average as an efficiency guy,

which is okay. But I think if you pair him with a star big man, which is not a lot to ask. I give him a complimentary star. I always say Anthony Davis would be the perfect player for him. If he can play off of a big

and use that gravity as a playmaker to unlock a big like a Mobley or an AD or whatever, I think we could see one of the most viable point guards in the NBA. So if I was drafting, I would say, okay, I want Cade here and I want to find him a big man that he can work and coincide with. Even if it's like a Jared Allen, I think we can see a different level of Cade. Yeah.

But Flagman. Carson, you sell me on flag on why he should be above Tatum, Cunningham. Because I'm close. I'm very close to being with you, but I just went slightly below. I think we basically agree on like Cade's limitations. And I think you said it really well about both him and Paolo, where these are these dudes who like come in and they have such awesome skill sets and the number one overall picks and like they've got the big box scores already and so

a lot of people just like project what they are going to be and say that's what they are right now where i think like kade and paolo a lot of people overrate right now but that doesn't mean that like i don't view them as top 15 building blocks because i have them both there it's just kade has a lot of stuff i love with his scoring craft with his size with his playmaking even the defensive tools you look at how he defended in that nick series and it's like when he locks and he can be a clear plus but the lack of volume high efficiency three point shooting

and the major issues as a rim finisher and the lack of burst like that's just where Kay's going to live on a tough shot diet his whole career and so even though he does so much good stuff I can talk myself into him being top 12 when I look at flag I see a monster man I see like pretty much a dream modern forward prospect

he does so much at a high level there's really not a hole in his game like the only only area in which I think you can have some questions about his development is what level of on ball creator does he become just because the handle can be a little bit sketchy he doesn't have that high level burst what level of pull-up shooter is he but just in terms of impacting the game in every phase like elite perimeter defender with dominant interior defense especially if he's going to play at the three he'll be the best shot blocking small forward in basketball he can also play the four he'd be the best rebounding small forward in basketball probably too like so impactful on

that side of the ball so high motor such a high IQ and then offensively i do think he's going to be a pretty good on ball score i think that he has a pretty awesome combination of skill and size and strength i mean the frame that he has for as young as he is his ability to post up mismatch tack in college that was so impressive the jumper has looked a lot better and then he's also got like really good passing feel his processing is really good off ball he's got great feel as a cutter as an offensive rebounder. I just go across the board, and I think he's different from adjacent Tatum

in the sense that Flagg's value will be more oriented towards like elite elite defense and having more of that interior defensive value. He probably won't ever be the score that Tatum is. But just when I think about being an A-minus kind of forward at everything, that Swiss Army knife, that's what I can see Flagg being.

And he's younger than Tatum. He's nine years younger, and he didn't just tear his Achilles. Yeah. That's why I have him to say. You mentioned all these strengths and like everything you said was right from the offense, the defense, the rebounding, the passing. He checks all these boxes. But not only does he check him. Like, he does it and he, on the court, he plays the game the right way while doing those things.

Racist, but I can't say that. I can't say that about Jason Tatum, at least not half the time. Ridiculous. I will say, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm, the prophecy of this man flag has lived up. He is, what do we call him? White Hope This works in the community right now The fact that he's from Maine

Is just like the cherry on top for that Dude is from the whitest state to ever produce Where are you from Carson? I'm from San Francisco Bay Area Ah, barely here, okay Gotcha Okay, nice

I just want to I thought it was like you were from Maine too And you like No no no no no No No but I just think the only other NBA player Ever from Maine is Duncan Robinson And now they have flag

it will only be specifically two that will never happen to get in history but yeah Caden flag are just tough for me because similar things that like when we were talking through all these things about them and I'm like

are we describing somebody that might be like the perfect second star will light limitations and like but I'm like then again they do so much stuff that I'm like

they can be your best player they just shouldn't be your main go to score I think which is a different way that people simpleize it simpleize it not a word what was it looking for?

Simplify. Simplify. Simplize is crazy but yeah people people simplify it too much and act like your best player has to be your best score. And I don't think it has to be the case. Same thing with Mobley. Like these can be your best players. You just need to have a go-to option like your Chris Middleton on the roster or whoever may be. Yeah, it's a great comparison. You got to be the Chris Middleton. You got to find

a Chris Middleton to your Yonis. You got to have a Jainz. You got to have a Kyrie to your LeBron James. So I, I 100% agree. I think he can be like a one-A on a team. It's just going to look slightly. Yeah, it'll look different. So we all agree Mobley is here. Donovan, you have above Janus. We have a Yonis signing at number six. Explain why you hate the Greek And the Nigerian I mean He's a Greek

We touch it everywhere So he doesn't claim I mean I don't know I don't know I'm just trying to be messing He's trying to start Erase one of the comments We do enough of that

We're off to a good start on that Isaac got us going for sure It just turned 24 years old Yeah Okay What did she do She's climbing cats being crazy She was not through the whole guy down table

What was that mott's flying everywhere But yeah, so like, it just turned 24 years old. They traded for Rudy O'Barre, and we're like, that's the dumbest move in the world. And then they make the conference finals. And then we're like, oh, like, we're really in on this. And then they trade away cat and bring in Julius Rand. And we're like, what the hell are they doing? That's the second dumbest thing in the world.

And then guess what? They make the conference finals again. And even though that they haven't won, it is very, like, I think the most telling thing about all of this is that everybody after that series is, like obviously aunt didn't play well he has to get better we don't care he's going to get better yeah the immense confidence in anthony edwards that everybody has i think is extremely telling and it's like this guy is going to get better and the same the same thing with shangoon where we saw him take a a big yeah we saw him take a leap in a big area with his defense for aunt to be like obviously the passing so needs to to get better for

Ant to go for one of the best slashes in in the world to in three months come back and be like, yeah, I'm just the best shooter at my position. I'm the best pull-up shooter in the lead. And I'm not going to do it on three attempts. I'm not going to do it at four attempts. I'm going to do it on nine attempts a game, right? And I'm going to shoot 40% from there. And if I need to, I can still jump 40 inches in the air and put my nuts in your face.

Like I still have the ability to do all of that. But I'm adding things to my game at a rapid pace. So the age, his ability, his ability to grow and to add things to his game at a quick level, all of that is why I'm going to take him over, over Yannis, who is 31, who has missed the playoffs two out of the last three years because of random injuries. I still think that Yonis is going to age pretty well, but you have an extra six years with, with Ant to do all of that. And I just, it's very hard for me not to put the face of the league in the,

the top five. Faces. I don't think you realize that like his three point shooting season this year like this might be a top five

most impressive three point shooting season of all time we consider volume shot difficulty caliber of player and especially where you starting from too yeah even outside of that

like just on paper three point shooting season from that caliber of that difficulty at that volume of that player with that much defensive attention with that lack of creation around him like

it's like it's an all time three point shooting season it's like best step year best damn year best hard year this year is up there like it's it's there it is like

Crazy. My little buddy Logan, his favorite stat, this actually, I think, got ruined at the end of the year. But there was a time where Ant was one of four dudes to shoot 40% from three with 10 plus attempts per game in a season ever. He ended up dipping just below 40% to 39.5. But the rest of the club was Steph Clay Day. So like, it ends. It's historic. Yeah, round up over here. Yeah, round up. I agree. It's crazy. We're optimistic. We already establish that. So yeah, one of four guys. and is so good man fair Donovan like he just keeps getting better that three point shooting leap was actually crazy and now what you got to look at is okay does the intermediate scoring get better the mid range the floater range that's always been his biggest limitation

I'm not sure about that just because I think there's kind of a natural intermediate touch element that he hasn't really had like the floater has just never been good but as a playmaker obviously he still has room to grow but that's the thing he has room to grow and he has progressed

and even though he's flawed there you look at him in the playoffs and like he sees kind of a wonky tricky Lakers defense that is daring him to beat them as a passer and like with his brain and he struggles early and then he figures it out Warrior series he adjusts as a playmaker

and so I do think it's smart to bet on ant now for me the only difference is the top five guys like are pretty much all stamped at an all-time level already and Janice, even though he's 30, is at one of the 15 greatest peaks we've ever seen from a basketball player and so I am going to continue to bet on

like if that dude's on my roster even with the absolute incompetence the Milwaukee has put around him like he's going to get you into the playoffs, he's going to give you a chance he's just gotten better offensively like he's too great for me but it is crazy because I feel like people are really high on aunt and then I went

and I looked back at like this list that I did with my little buddy Logan back in January and we were ranking, like, our top 10 building blocks. I had aunt at six. That was what people were most mad about, saying he was too high, being like, what has aunt done to be at six? So it's crazy, because now I feel like everybody, like, yeah, agrees. He should absolutely.

That was on Twitter, right? You were going to harass on Twitter. Yeah, that was on Twitter, which, to be fair, probably a bunch of Turks who were mad that I didn't have Shangoon on there, but Twitter's insane. I bet you two would have said he's too low. It's a different audience on both platforms. Twitter is just like, that's where the woke are,

of NBA people that are like, he's not a fishing at the ram! And, like, I agree, but he's not a willing pastor. It makes sense. Especially since the playoff run happened and what he was able to do with the Lakers and dismantle them and do what he did against the Warriors too. I think a lot of those people would be like, huh, this guy was cooking. Maybe I was too wrong. I was too harsh. But you go to Instagram comp or something where the casuals are.

Why isn't that number one? Yeah, you're right. Put them higher. Different planets, bro. They speak different languages. Yeah, we've, what do we know it? We have very different audiences and very different platforms. I don't even post on Twitter anymore.

Like, salute you, you guys grind on Twitter. I hate posting content on Twitter. It's just the worst audience reception in the world. I never look at a reply. I never look at a reply on anything. So if you guys, I assume everybody is saying really nice things to me all the time. Yeah, we reached a point where I had to stop looking at it because there's too many videos to keep up with. It was just too much.

The Mattis can't do it. Okay, top five. Carson, who's your 5 through 1? So I have Janus at 5. I have Luca 4, Shee 3, Yokich 2, Wembe 1. I have the exact same order. Let's reveal them all. I have literally the same thing.

Five, Yonis, four, Luka, three, Shay, two, Yokich, one, Wembe. And I have, I have FI, Luka, 4, Shay, 3, Yokich, 2, Wembe 1. I got Luka 5, Yonis 4, Shea 3, Wembe 2, and I have Yonis 1. It's my bad Yon. I almost did Yonish at 1 just because I'm like, we have probably 5 more years the best player in the world. That's crazy. But then I'm like, dude, Wembe might have 12 years of best playing the world pretty soon.

Like, if he wasn't so. clearly a legend i would do what you did too i was very close to saying the making one be some time to prove it at least a little bit but there's just no doubt in my mind that this isn't one of the greatest players of all time yeah i can i can definitely agree with that i gave you a little bit more credit because i think he can how old is he right now thirty thirty one like that i definitely give you at least like six seven more years of just like elite all-time level play like similar to what you said about yonis carson when it comes just the the the how he's cemented in history and how he has had maybe a top 12 peak of all time

i feel the when it comes to you honest i feel the exact same way about yokech how he's able to just carry your team on his back like whatever defense that's front of his face he's going to go and slice up and dice outside of okayc especially earlier in earlier in that series but now that you've got more help on his team i think that's probably going to alleviate so much stress and like prolong his career and um deduce his responsibilities and i think over the next few years still that's going to prove to be true and I think that

if Lumpu was better than Yokic I don't know and it's two years fair let's say three years from now three years 33 and Yokic is I mean Wembe's 25 and Yokic is 33 Yeah that wouldn't surprise me but when it comes to like

the level of like there's a gap between who's the best part of the world right now and who's like number two there's a clear like gap I'm not saying it's big but it's a gap I don't know I think Wembe can get there but it's not like it's not cement

Yeah, it's not a guarantee that he comes best playing in the world That's fair Yeah But because like Maybe Katie was our best player in the world

But Katie's still Top 15 player of all time So like he might not be number one For an extended period of time My Yokich is And over these next five years You're right But I will be shocked

If Wemby isn't a top three player In the world for the next 10 years Like that's the floor To me Mo if you had to bet right now Mo if you had to bet right now Do you think that Wembe at his best Will be better than Yokicich is right now

Wemby at his best better than Yokic I don't know I can't bet that I'd probably say no to that just because I think Yokic is having to take a 10 feet of

exactly what's the odds I can't bet that I think that's even odds man I think that's like even odds I'm taking it

I'm taking it too man I think Wemby is like Mount Rush more about I think Yokich oh you think he's my rush or bad okay because I think

I think he's listen if I'm starting a franchise of glazers I'm taking cards and water Yeah, I appreciate that. He is all the name. Never seen his performance ever.

Yeah, the performance that you're putting on today, because I agree with you, but you are taking these leaps first. I, I respect it so much. I appreciate it. Because what's crazy. I think,

Yolkis could be the defensive goat. I agree. I think Yokic is the best offensive player ever. In fact, I was saying that before. I'm going to self-glaze now. I was on that early. I'm an OG Yokic Glazer. I think he is at a top 10 peak ever,

and I still think Wemby at his best will be better. Because I do think he can easily be the greatest defensive player since Bill Russell nobody can ever surpass Bill Russell in defensive impact we don't need to get into that right now

it's mostly just an era thing the game was played so differently one rim protector when nobody's shooting three skill was more limited it's just ridiculous what you could do on that side of the ball but like modern era wemby has obviously the craziest defensive tools

we've ever seen like purely as a rim protector 7 4 with an 8 foot wingspan he's blocking four shots a game he's an insane deterrent he's got legitimate mobility he's got the IQ he's already probably probably the best defender alive

and he just played his second season he's 21 years old and then offensively like the guy just shot 9 3s a game and made 36% of them at 7 foot 4 and we still haven't seen him paired with like a high level playmaker and if you just look at his numbers with Chris Paul just like a

legitimate high IQ good passing point guard per 75 possessions I think Webby was averaging like 28 points on 60 something percent true shooting like he still has a ways to go as a self-creator. I do worry about his scoring burden holding up in a

playoff series against a great defense right now a really good switching defense. Can he impose himself physically enough? Those are questions about 21-year-old Wemby who was already playing at a first-team all-MBA level and has as much room to grow into as anybody we've ever seen like literally limitless potential

man. And he's nine years younger. I just think for me he's a no-brainer number one, even as a Yolkish Stan. I'm with you. Everyone's planning their flag on Wemby being a future go, which is fair. And like you said, you were an OG Yokic offensive goat guy. So was I. I was like 2018 on Twitter.

Like, he's going to be a top life center. We got to find out who the next. Who's the next one that we can plan our flags in right now as a group and say it's like a future legend? AJ DeBonsa. I don't know if you're serious yet. I don't know if you're serious yet. AJ DeBonsa. We got to do it down on college radars yet for the cabs.

You like him more than Peterson and Boozer? I actually haven't watched that much from my. Yeah. I don't watch high schools like that. I don't know what damn thing. I just know these are the big three. Yeah. They are the big three.

Yeah. Somebody pulled up a thing on Twitter. A couple days ago. Somebody added me. They found a 2017 tweet of mine when I replied to Kevin Durant. And I called Yokin's the best passing big guy I've ever seen on July 25th, 2017. How the fuck did they find this? This is like four days ago.

That's so weird. That's a like. You didn't even say Yokich or anything. They were just looking through your tweets. I'm guessing they found this Kevin Durant tweet and I was under it because they follow me. I guess so. But I was like, yeah. I didn't even realize I said this in 2017.

You were cooking. Yeah. I remember I picked I picked Yokits to win MVP before the 2020 season so the year before he actually won it and it wasn't a good take for that season but I was just a year early I'll take me in a year earlier smiting you at that for 2020 oh yeah yeah no wendy yeah I'm I'm with you he's like he's the chosen one and I've seen like I forgot who said it but somebody was like he's going to do for the five by five what Russ did for the triple double yeah where it's like we're gonna we're gonna get to a point where he's like we're gonna we're gonna get to a point where he's

He's just putting up these crazy stats every night. And it's like, oh, yeah. Like, that's just what he does, right? That's just where it's at. And then, because on, like you said, on top of that four blocks, the amount of times that people just drive to the rim and it's so visible, like, sometimes, like, even like with Gobert, like some people would do it. With Wembe, you can see people make the decisions like at the foul line.

It's like, yeah, I'm not going to take the shot. I'm not even going to try, like, any floater or get to the rim. It's just going to be a quick kickout. like his his defense is going to be crazy. I think with him shooting threes is going to make him more more he's also not a slouch when he comes to passing either. That's no, the crazy things that he does.

We have this is like so underrated. And this is the first time that he's actually going to play with like in their prime point guards. Because like I, right? Like you play with CP3. He's 40 years old. Like that's not the same as playing with prime Chris Paul. Now that you actually are building out a real NBA roster around him. It's about to get scared.

You mentioned the shooting and passing. When do you mention that? He legitimately might be the best shot blocking big of all time and the best stretch big of all time by the time it's his prime. He could be the best shooter we've ever seen when you talk about the difficulty shots he takes and the fact that he will have the most uncontestable jumper of all time. If you're closing out to a pick and pop from Wemby,

unless you're 7-1 or have a Mark Williams wingspan, you have 0% chance of actually contesting him and impacting his shot. Like he will shoot over everybody from 40 feet away. And he can already shoot stepbacks Heavy on the 40 feet away too He's done that a few times last season And it's just like every single time they do it The defenses never knows what to do at all

That game on Christmas in the garden Was like okay spiritual It's like it's here It's like KP shooting where you can just pull from 30 And it's uncontestable If you also add the off the dribble element of like Wemby can actually handle Wembe can actually shoot stepbacks

He shot better on stepbacks as a rookie Than he don't catch and shoot threes like he's a freak man we've never seen anything like him and he can attack close out from that 30 foot jumper like it's he will truly be the most impactful stretch big of all time more than carlety towns more than dirt whatever you say I'll be shocked if he's not the best stretch big maybe he won't shoot the best percentage because like cat will consistently shoot 40

but you get the game planning and how hard it is to stop how he'll be able to play off that attack closeouts like and especially because he has clear slashing guards next to him that are going to be a compliment there with fox now harper now in the future like that's going to be unlocked to the fullest And that's going to be what defines him just as much as the shot blocking. And once you like add on to that, the fact that he's going to have the mindfulness from working with the monks to be close, like to be to be present in the moment and take advantage of all those opportunities. You stretch big, greatest defensive player.

He's going to be extremely clutch. He's already, he's killer. He's already right there. He's been hanging out with the Jeffrey Dahmer of killers with KG. That's smart dog. That's what I'm saying. And he has great politics. I don't know if you've seen his Twitter.

All right. Comrade. Everything about Wembe is dope. I'm telling you, he's the choking one, he's the avatar. It's amazing. Well said. Man, Wembe's the one. And honestly, I can't hate none of the things you guys said.

I would put him, I would put him one two. And I have like, I'm not like stamping my flag. Yokch is one. I'm not doing that because Yokic is as great as Yokic is on offense and how he's one of the, I don't know, in my mind, four greatest offensive players of all time. The levels of ascension that Wembe is. is already defensively and how he's just like

just scratching the surface offensively too you got one I'm so there we go shout out our communist king Wemby he's got to be number one for a long time we all put Shay above Luca is there any

is anybody put bad about that I don't I don't feel bad about it but like I can see if you if you are believing in a like bounce back like I'm gonna I'll show you type of year from from Luca

if you want to do that and then put Luca at three fine I don't really care about that right now. I just think that Shea right now is at his peak and is so like undeniable and everything that he's doing. It's like, yeah, he's safer. Like he deserves to be top three. I agree. Yeah. Now, next year, if we were to redo this list or three years from now, we could easily see a world on where Shay or Luca is above Shay. It's pretty much going to be interchangeable in my mind for the rest of their career. Yeah, I think Lucas also one of the greatest

officer players of all time. So like he very well could be three. It's just Shay is like, his style of play is so resilient. It's always going to work. I trust his work. ethic. I trust the defense will continue to be great. He just has no real friction to him. Like you put him on a team, he will be who he is and will be reliable. He's prolific enough of a score that I can have, I think Luca is like

ever so slightly better at his peak, but SGA is just so secure. I know will age well that I'll put him above him just barely, but I view them as a virtual tie in terms of building blocks. Yeah, I slightly prefer Shea. I just think like there's really no question for me about Shea. And if

anything like I just see opportunity for even more improvement. When I think about what Shea did this year, he had one of the greatest guard regular seasons we've ever seen. And like the playoffs were still really impressive what he did with the offensive load that he had, just like his all time, not just scoring, but the ridiculous extents to which like defenses have to load up on him to deal with his scoring. And I think about like how he improved throughout series as a playmaker got better.

Like there were early in some series where he was to shoot first. And then by game four, game five, game six, game seven, like he's dissecting teams. I just feel like next time we see him in a playoff run, he's just going to be better equipped for seeing those coverages and the playmaking will come sooner in those series. I think the pull-up three was really good this regular season, then left him in the playoffs. That could easily come back. And then you pair with that best downhill guard, best to get in the line, best mid-range scoring guard, overall best on-ball scoring guard with just this ridiculously insane blend of like the athletic. the fluidity, the handle, the shot making, the footwork, the balance. I think Shea's one of the greatest offensive players ever, too.

I would slightly take Luca as an offensive player over him. But then I know that Shea's a positive defender, and Luca, it's like, all right, let's see if he can be passable. Because the last two times we've seen Luca in the playoffs, the defense has been legitimately embarrassing. And I'm not somebody who's going to like be too low on Luca because of that. It's more so I'm just crazy high on Shea. I even consider Shea for number two.

And then I was like, eh. I just will take what I'm getting from the Yokeman. But she's younger. Four years younger, yeah. And because, like, you know, the thing that people always say, like, is Yoker's going to want to play until he's 35? Probably not. It's going to his horses.

Yeah. Shit might be true. So, I don't know. Maybe he only has three more years in the league level. Who knows? Can't rule out. Okay, man, that's our top five. That's our list.

I guess solid. I think we're pretty much in locks up on a lot of these guys, minus some outliers. Okay. Solid ranking. Yeah. Hell yeah. Good work, team.

What a good way. off this ranking season, dog. Go us. And what that'd be said? That's the end of the main part of this show. It's time and transition to the second half. Carson is actually sticking with us for TikTok time. A lot of times I guess don't because they can't deal with three hours of potting.

Not him. He's got that. Not me, I'm going and going and go and taking it. Keep on potting. Well, I don't know if I can keep taking it. Let's rephrase that.

But yes, I enjoy doing this podcast with you guys. You're giving. You're giving. I'm giving, yes. We appreciate it. Yes. Thank you. I prefer it.

The audience is taking it. We appreciate you. We appreciate you for willing to indulge in what we like to do over here, man. With that being said, we're on to TikTok time. Let's go have some fun and do the rest of the show. Eat, eat, eat, eat, eat. Welcome to TikTok time. Today, we are once again going to begin with the draft.

Since we have a special guest in the house, the draft's going to be a little bit different. We're going to do a 2v2 draft with me and Donovan on one team and Carson M.O. on the other team. We take turns, taking picks for each other, do a snake draft like always with two categories. And today, you guys don't know the category yet. The category today is drafting NBA teams with only white American players from across history. So no Europeans. We've known white players before, but we encountered Europeans, just Americans this time. Okay. I feel like Katie going on to the wars right now. I'm up, dude. I'm about to get so deep in the bag. I'm ready. I'm ready. Got to get in our

bag. We're fighting tough competition. We're going to his home base. We are. But we got first pick so that's nice and then you guys have second and third obviously it's snake okay so first pick in the white american draft obviously give us larry bird a small ford great white hope you got to go there first yeah thank god we're two and three cars i think i think we go rick barry rick barry was ridiculous at his peak best guy on a title team that didn't have another all-star insane passing forward really good shooter just overall monster and history kind of forgets about him for sure Rick Bear. They do.

Okay. Now, now I have to say, now I have to say, Mo, just in the interest of candor. He did make some racially questionable comments once.

Oh, shit. He was well known to be a bad guy. Yeah, everybody hates him. Everybody hates him. And he also wore a two-pay, but he's nice as far.

He's hell of nice. Just pick up that ball and dribble. Shut up in dribble. That's what I'm sorry. Does we separate the arm for the artist? Yeah, exactly. And, shut up in triple,

man. I feel like I feel like I feel like we go with another wing here. I think we take John Havlicek. You know, listen, all the best white players played fucking before the 21st century. Okay. What do you think? You already selected him, so I think

I'm leaving with him. Okay, sorry. So we can roll with it. We can roll with it. But he picked Barry. Great. We like alternate pick so he picked Barry. You don't have to pick Havichick. You can pick the second one. That's true, Mo. I don't want to be I don't want to be a dictator. That is nice. Yeah, we'll alternate that way. Yeah, it's not bad.

But you guys consult, but, you know. I mean, I'll make this pitch, all time longevity. His peaky was like 27, 8, and 7. One of the best defenders that we've ever seen at the position. And you want to put him at the 4? I think we put him at the 2. I think we go, that's our 2, 3. Okay.

Let's do it. I row with you. Yeah. Lead me to the promise land. He can be the 2. That makes sense, positionally. Okay. Let's go.

Who do you want next? I'm Donovan. What do you want next? At R2. Give us Jerry West. Let's go. I fucked it. I totally.

fuck it that is 100% on me that was just operating off the dome we're just drafting off a peak the best version of them it doesn't got to be longevity give me bill walter at center oh my god we're getting cooked mo we're getting destroyed i totally let card man this is fucking great take it take it car i don't know nothing about that man i went wait i'm gonna make you colorless now that's fair i'll be green bro fuck wow wow we lost i mean straight up I, uh, you don't know this, Carson, but I have the reputation of selling the drafts or whatever. It's not really me, but it's me to the audience. I can't escape my faith.

No, this is 100% on me. Jerry West, I don't know why I didn't say him. I, I was just daunting. I wouldn't have picked me there. I forgot about Jerry West. Let me, let me steer us back. Let me steal your pick for a second. We got to maintain Bob Coozy.

We got to grab Bob Coozy. Go over Stockton? Yeah Over Nash? We're just going He's Canadian He's Canadian Oh shit

I forgot about that Yeah I was thinking of Yeah yeah yeah Yeah No fuck he's not He's not a white American Why do you go with our second pick though I mean

If we're going Relative to era There's a case for George Mikan Most dominant player in the league at his time Now that being said the NBA Was segregated for the first couple years of years So personally, I don't really count George Miken. Come on, come on, come on, come on.

You can't pick Rick Barry and be like, yeah, he said some racist stuff, but then draw the line and had Miking because he was just playing the racist time. No, no, no, here's why. Here's why. Because Rick Barry was actually at least playing against the best of the best. George Miken was playing against the league that was like mostly predominantly white in a sport where 80% of the best players ever are white. He didn't make the season.

It's not his fault. It's not his fault. It's not his fault. We could go with Bob Pettettit. Unfortunately, he was also racist. Damn. You know a lot of us from old whites. I do.

I didn't know that. What? He was racist. The Hawks. Yeah, his name's Robert E. Lee Petit. Louisiana. And he played with, he played with Clyde Lavellett, who was super racist. And Slater Martin and other hogs guy.

Were these like your bedtime stories or something like this? You're very knowledgeable. Well, unfortunately, I have a mental illness thought of it. I have a problem. But, yes. There are a lot of racist. Anyways, let's move on from the racism. I feel like if we're going between Stockton and Coosie,

I'd probably take Stockton, but it's your call, Mo, because I already fucked it. And there's probably someone else. Yeah, we got Coosier. We got Coosier already. Give me that. All right. We'll go Coosy.

So now we need a big. Is there another guy with a short peak? Like, I can't believe we didn't take Walton. I'm struggling to talk to Walton. I mean, like, Kevin Love is the modern guy. go for it with bob i think i think bob patted honestly is the best relative to era let's just put together a team of dudes who all played before 1980

i don't know you just leave it at the four yeah oh at the four okay yeah we're small that sounds good that sounds good i'm sorry mo i gave up on this the second they went back to back jerry west bill walton i threw in the towel emotionally because i realized that I had screwed us. We've already decided we're picking guys with questionable lease. We're picking John Stockton that point guard. We'll just keep going with guys that we don't want to associate with, but are nice.

It's not bad. That's not bad. And now to finish off our Boston Celtics, we'll put in Kevin McHale at the power. That's a good pick. That's a good pick. Yeah, so we made the 86 Celtics and then just put John Stock to have point guard and Jay West at the two. God damn, bro. Yeah.

And your guys' team, all their pictures are in black and white. Yeah, literally. I don't know. Should we just go Mike in at the center? Should we just lean into the bit? Why not? What bit? What are you talking about?

This is not a bit. It's a joke now, Mo. It's a joke. I fucked us. I put us in a position where our team is now a joke compared to theirs. It's over.

But I actually can't think. What's the coolest way to go out? How do you want to go out? The coolest way to go out is we take Tom Borwinkel. Who? Tom Borne. You remember Tom Bowerman? You remember Tom.

Borwinkle, one of the better passing centers of the 70s? Well, why would I remember Tom Nipple wrinkle? Tom Borwinkle? Who is we talking about? Why would I remember him? I feel, I can't tell you how badly I feel that I fucked up the white American draft. It's a disgrace. Okay.

What if we just took pistol pete and we just went radical small ball? No, that's too much. I think we should, maybe, at this point I'm just trying to create, have some type of saving race for our team we have like and if it was up to me I'd be like fuck it bro just give me 10 let me call it a day give me something who can fucking shoot

please chet does not want to be on this team mo chet does not want to be on this team he does not identify he doesn't identify as white he would pull up talking about shooting 54 from tray ball as OD shooting hang pulls and Bob pettit would punch him in the face that type of magic is what

we might need all right let's take Why not? There you go. Chet Holmgren. Top 10 white player of all time. So of audio listeners that weren't keeping up this, we have John Stockton, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Bill Walton. The best pick in every position.

We killed you. We have the best player in every position, literally. We have every goat. Oh, John Stockton, is he better than Coosie? Yes. I don't like either one. You want to say it out loud who you guys have? Tarsie you say it.

We've got Bob Coosie. John Havlicek, Rick Berry, Bob Pettettit, and Chet Holmgren. We actually, we are getting 40-piece. Rick Barry, if I had taken West with Rick Berry, I would have felt okay. You guys still would have done Walton, who did peak higher than Barry, but at least it would have been passable. It went off the rails when you started off with Bird West Walton. I'm so sorry, boss. That's tough, buddy.

All right. It's sorry. Next thing we're going to do. We're going to keep on the topic of Old Whites. We're going to talk about and view. every single NBA team's 1960s logo we're going to grade it. A through F we're going to see

I think there's 12 teams in league at this time I went to 1969 and most of these teams logos are from 69 but some of them were like a logo we've seen before there's a more interesting one from like 65 so I pick some out of the year but this is all mid to late 60s. Okay. So great it, let's know what you think

how this is aged. First off we got the Houston Rockets when they were in San Diego. It's kind of cool I like I kind of like this It's not good. No it's kind of hard as fuck. Like this is a nice illustration. They got some shattering on the ball. This is kind of the best one here, I think. I think the colors are wildly off. Did the basketball used to be that color for real?

I don't know, but it's hard. They did a good job. I don't care about realism here. This is dope. It looks like a Packer Brown smuggle like. Was there like an aerospace base in San Diego? Why were they the rockets? I think so. I think there's some like army thing. Okay. Yeah, they have a big military presence.

It's mostly Navy, but I think it used to be Air Force. Yeah, it is maybe. But I don't know. That's what they did in like, I think in Topga, Isn't that where top gun is? Yeah, but this is rockets, like space, not just like planes. Like, they have a big military presence. I'm assuming that, like, the space ratios happen in the 60s, and they were like, yeah,

rockets are cool. So let's make this do this. You know that we got that file on us. Yeah, exactly. Rocket is a movie space. No, but I actually think we got pocket rockets. We got big rockets. You don't feel the rocket.

But this rocket does go into space, though. So I understand. You're definitely right, though, Isaac. Because there were simultaneously the Denver rockets. That's what they were before the Nuggets in the ABA. So there was a Rockets in the ABA and the NBA. So I think the right, I think it was just the space craze. Yeah.

For real. It was a good thing, man. But I think I'm going to get this an A, actually. I think this age really well. Like this, I'd wear this on a T-shirt. That's, see, that I'm glad you said that that was my exact. That's how I'm grading in a lot of these. If I take this and I put it on a nice white oversized tea and I find out of a vintage store,

how much would I gravitate towards it? I would get a shirt with the Rockets on it. Okay. I think we'll see much worse. I'm going to give it a B. It's not iconic at all. but there's a lot going on with the colors I kind of agree with Mo saying the pack of crayons

that being said the t-shirt point I think this would look pretty nice on a white tea so it's probably not the best for a jersey or branding but it's good for fashion so I'll give it a point I agree as a big I agree it probably should be a B we'll see some iconic ones I deserve an A so I'll go B the Phoenix Suns this is better probably

also good for fashion this is definitely better than the Houston Rockets one the colors are more cohesive they still have that flaming ball back then to the spiky ball at best yeah exactly you can see like the gear starting to turn they were cooking in the 60s

this is like a precursor to their best logo you say you definitely like gears turning you see what they were cooking and how they eventually got to an iconic logo this is a junior version of it I'll give it to C plus this is bet if you put this on the t-shirt compared to that Rockets one you'd read towards this one first no I would not I would not that's crazy you don't know me you don't think about me I see your fits bro I've walked into your closet I've seen you but no I'll go I go like B plus

just because like you said It's a very prototype version of the best one that they have, but it is very nice. I'm sure, like, the Sun's logos, a lot of times, they have some of the best logos in the league. And so, like, the floor for them across the 12 teams, it's probably one of the better ones, but still, I'm going to give it. It's also a great color scheme. Yeah. B plus. I'm going to be minus.

Okay. The Cincinnati Royals, the former name of the Kings. So crazy, bro. That dude is the biggest pervert I have ever seen. yeah why is he looking at me like that bro what is he looking at oh somebody shouldn't be hello there ladies no thank you hey that was accurate yeah like I guess it's like the planet and like the top is supposed to

Cincinnati like this is disgusting to look at you know being caught yeah what the fuck it's crazy it looks like a it looks like he's popping wood out the top of his head dude this is all around disturbing who made this He's his eyes. Atop of his head is he wrecked? No, I don't like it. No. F.

F. F. F. F. It's a failed cartoon. I'm kind of sick of looking at it. The person who made this, they were trying to work for Disney. They didn't work out. It does have like a twisted Disney vibe to it. Yeah. I don't like it.

Something real sinister about this guy. I don't like him. He's a pervert. He's a pervert. The Atlanta Hawks, their first logo. This gumpy-ass hawk. It's kind of cool It's kind of looks like

I kind of love it It's cool It looks like a retro cartoon It's so active It's very rare that you see Like an active logo And all There's motion

It's kind of classic feel I mean it is a little weird For sure I don't know why the basketball Is that shade of brown too Like It does feel kind of like Somebody just drew some shit

But I'm gonna give it a B Just because like I like the vibe He's wearing knee pads Yo he looks like He's running away from like Someone tries to cook his ass His ass

Why does he wear knee pads because he's a sporty bird like he wants to protect his knees yeah we wearing knee pads that's what I'm saying it's it looks like a volleyball yeah so I'm saying the ball looks like a volleyball and then the knee pads too you don't wear I guess this is a high school volleyball team for that that feels more accurate I kind of like it I give it a C I like it it's I think it's a B2 I think this this will look better I think this would look better as like the side logo on a hat rather than on a t-shirt so I it doesn't pass the t-shirt test I want to see The San Francisco Warriors

They got the headdress In the middle of the logo This is hard The arrow in the Warriors It's you know teetering on appropriations That's why they changed it But it's not the most offensive we've seen Because they were smart with it

Could have been worse They took the face out Yeah yeah They took the face out Oh look at the eye They brace it with the arrow Yeah They're on the line

And they got out early Before they started drawing red faces So it's not the worst we've seen Yeah this is the closer you can get to, we're trying to pay homage. We're showing love. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. The Warriors branding has always just been confused because

like ever since then they've just been like we have the Golden Gate Bridge. Like it's just been basically like we play in San Francisco in Northern California. I don't know. I still don't love it though. Like it's pretty, I don't like the multiple circles outside.

Yeah, it's not good. The font is boring. It's just the headdress. It's a C minus to me. Yeah. I will say like, If you're going to put the headdress, you might as well put the face. If you're going to do that because just the headdress looks weird.

So like I know, I know like at this point, you probably didn't have much issue in yourself, right? You know what they were doing. That's what I'm saying, doing certain things. So at this point, this really is a show of laziness rather than like deference.

Rather than respect. Yeah. So for the laziness aspect of it, I'll go like D plus. Yeah, I go D. The Baltimore Bullets Should have been racist This is okay

Actual bullet is cool Real bullet on there Definitely Holy shit that would never happen again Different era Baltimore Bullets is crazy Isn't that crazy They changed the bullets name

Because they were like Violence is too high in D.C. We think this has something to do with it I don't think so bad I don't know as funny They got ahead of it Imagine like we were talking about earlier We saw a Bullets logo

I was like Why did they change your name? And I was like Is it because of Columbine? It was actually before that. So, like, they got ahead of the shooting being a big social issue. They just barely beat out Columbine, too. I'm not sure about it early.

But, like, they got it close. Did they know? They scented in the air. They know. This is kind of boring. They fell in their knee. Dude, I don't like, I don't like the font again. It's so much white.

The bullet is so much space above bullets. Exactly. It's the 1960s. So much negative space. on a curve. Yeah. How do they do this graphic design

in the 60s? I don't know, but I don't like that you. That huge pissing me off. You is small and spaced out.

Is it a different font and everything else? There's so much kerning in between the letters are so spaced out. I'm not a fan. And the seams of the ball like cuts off

where the letters are. This is a D. This is terrible. The Celtics, their first logo before the one they have now. Who is this little creep? That's another perj.

It's another purver. It's another bird. Why is he squatting? We must hold an investigation for these 1960 designers. That's what I'm noticing. He looks like. He has so many fingers. Is he too many fingers?

No, no, no, my guess it is five. No, he is five. Yeah, he's five. He has a jester hat that just says NBA on it. He's holding a one. The rockets one, the rocket's one was like that. They put NBA on the rocket. And so I guess.

they still like you still have to show you know they were like guys it's not the BAA anymore make sure people don't forget yeah what is he holding a wizarding wand some lepercon thing I guess I don't know some lepercon shit yeah something of the lore probably it's like a key to like find some like some pot of gold or something like that but I don't know the squad in is really freaking me out because like I so like I think that he is sitting down I thought he was like in I thought that this was like a fan like you know supporting the team or whatever I'm not sure if this was like a true just got creeping ain't no fan yeah he's squatting down to look through a window into a

woman's apartment he's a free he's dropping down getting his eagle on he's dancing Chicago Bulls I mean 10 out of 10 they got it right the first time yeah yeah this this is great they've never changed it you know no crazy this and never change your logo from the 60s how long is it been what was it 60 years I guess 200 years a lot of years that master too long I was looking at yeah you don't get confused sometimes no don't do me like that so because sometimes it is crazy where it's like you know how like when people are like oh it's kind of weird that like 70 plus like 33 is like 103 it's like one of those type of things

what you just 70 plus 70 plus 33 is 100 and 3 Donovan. No. No, that's not what I'm saying. Have you not seen the tweet that I'm talking about? You don't know

the tweet that I'm talking about? I have to find it. All I have to I have to find you. There's a very specific tweet that I got to move on, I have to find. We got to move on,

I promise you. I promise you. You got to keep on going. I will make sense. I'm making a reference. Okay. Let's put it down. I promise me.

I was good at times tables in third grade. I was good. Back to bed, Grandpa. The Detroit Pistons. Way too much text, bro. That's a national basketball association. They didn't just write NBA.

They spelled out the government name. And then basketball club. F. D.P.C. If this was on a T, it would be hard. It would be hard in an ironic way because it's throwback, not because it's actually cool.

Exactly. Yeah, I'll go low key F. Low key F. Everything about it. The ball is white. The text is just here. huge and just not going well with the lines in the bag isn't it like how is this memorable to like the casual fan it's not at all i think most casual fans have never seen this i've never seen

this before until i did this exercise and don't wonder why they don't be no goddamn hardcore piss this fans man how could you be with this logo damn well we'll see because most them are dead you know what i mean man the 76ers hey hey again your first logo becomes your always logo that's So hard to do in the NBA. Hey. Whoever made this and also the Chicago Bulls logo, too, I hope they get, like. What's the thing is called when, like, writers go ahead and get a Pulitzer? No, not Pulitzer.

He's talking about royalty. Royalties. Oh, yeah. What the hell is a Pulitzer? Yeah. An award. No. What the hell is a Pulitzer?

You fucking crowd eater. It's funny. The Bulls one is like, the Bulls one is a great logo. This is just a 76 and some stars. But, like, it's maintained for so long and it's iconic. Yeah. It's not bad at all. It's hard.

And the red and blue, man, it's just like quintessential. Hell yeah, America. I love it. It's a great logo. Hell yeah, America. The Lakers, when they were blue. This feels like a YMCA team. It don't feel like NBA.

This definitely looks like the 60s. It does. But it flows a little better than some other ones you've seen. I like the font. It's like striking. It's not just, there's at least some semblance of design going on. Yeah, but like the way that like when the L and the S is all, so I'm looking at to see Acre.

And so, like, that's just you, man. I think so. That's all I'm focusing on right now. I see Lakers, but I also do see Acre. Acre is there. That's what I'm saying. You can't spell the Lakers without. Canemakers is everywhere.

Camacres came back from his Achilles' tear in six months, and he wasn't good, but he played. Camacres everywhere for those who have eyes to see. Modern medicine doesn't want, doesn't want you to talk about that. I'll get this a solid C. Yeah, C minus. C-Mone. I like the blue.

I mean, the C-S school. The baby blue. was awesome. I wish they would. I damn you wish they had stuck with the baby blue, even though the purple and gold is iconic, but yeah, it's iconic because they won championship in it, but if they won championship in blue, it would also be iconic. True. The Milwaukee Bucks,

how do we feel about those little guy in his sweater? I like this. I love this. This is super cool. I'm a very big fan. It's like a Christmas cartoon, like the sweater. So it's kind of out of place, but it looks really cool. I have to give it to them. Either way. Well, it's okay. It'd be cold in Milwaukee. They have to wear a sweater.

Okay, fair enough. It'd be cold in Milwaukee. This might be my favorite, bro. To me, this is like, I don't know. I just associate it with Kareem. It's like that quintessential era. And it's a beauty. It's creative. It's fun.

It's whimsical. I like it. You know, we don't have enough whimsy in modern logos. We got to bring it back. Exactly. They took it all out, bro. They eliminated the whimsy.

I'm a big fan of this. I'm going a plus. I agree. Best one yet? Yes. I see, I see, because the Bulls one is there.

This is top three. Easy. Yes. Is this better than the. current bucks logo because the current buck's logo is pretty tough but like opposite vibe that one's like we're scary and this one's like yeah you can't wear this home this could have been this good this could have been out there wearing this on your jersey if you're the most soft bitch made team i've ever seen it couldn't go well but also i feel like i'm just in for a great

adventure man i feel like if i was a fan of this team with this logo i could just genuinely walk into any force or any yeah any force is it's fine idea like this and i'll be picking it berries off the trees. Yeah, we're not Sparry Farm. We'll go. The New York Knicks. Yeah, this is kind of nasty. He looks like a greedy bastard, man.

I don't know what it is. He looks like the guy from Pocahontas. Why is he like spellbinding the ball? Yeah. It looks like he's like manipulating it with witchcraft. He's Dr. Doom. That's all it.

It does look like, yeah, this is bad. He looks like a Disney villain. I can't speak on this. I can't defend this. He just looks like he smells too. Yeah. You don't often see Like Scott is definitely a perfect

You're another He's definitely up there More so The way he's reaching for the lot Have we ever seen a like Fat mascot before like this On a logo? Good point

I got to be woke This is destigmatizing Body Shame And this is a progressive Very progressive Very forward This is a bad logo I don't know about it

It's terrible I'm here You said he stinks. Straight fatphobia. Straight phapobia. No, man, look at the grind on his face. He clearly smoked. Straight fatphobia.

You said he sweats. You said he smells like pork. It's too. You can see the grease in his hair. It's too much. Here we are. For that, A, I'm standing on the right side of history. D minus.

The Seattle Supersonics. This is cool. Oh, the line is a supersonic jet taken off? That's hard. Wow. I never noticed that. Wow. B plus.

The Sonics had like the best branding, bro. The text is weird. It goes way too far to the right. But I love the jet going through. I'm going to A minus and this is now in my top three. I'm going Bulls, Bucks, Supersonics. This is awesome. This is a B for me.

I think Sonics branding peaked in like the 90s. It was so sick. But I think they had the foundation of something good. Like you see how they get to the 70s branding from here. So it's good. But there's just kind of a lot. of negative space. It's not super like vibrant, I guess, but I do like the vision. Um, I, no, I, I, I think like my one knock on it is the fact that Seattle and

Super Sinus with two different colors, but I was, I didn't even notice that. Yeah, but I'm, I, I like it because this is, it's a nice blend of like being, being kind of like minimal and not doing a lot, but also still having a lot of personality. It, it blends, blends the two worlds very nicely. Okay. Okay. Next up. Oh, that's the last one actually. That's the whole entire 1960s NBA. Perfect. 12 teams. Damn.

Also, I found the thing. So saying how people were confused or like the online joke was like that it's weird that like 77 plus 33 doesn't equal 100 because it equals 110. That's what I was trying to say. Okay. That's what I'm trying to say. But like that's that's what I was again. Was it mostly two year olds interacting with the tweet? No, it's people alive.

I mean, there's stuff like it's like oh. No, it was dumb adults. Come on. You know what I'm saying? You subtracting, listen, you subtracting years. You subtracting years like it's weird, you know. Next thing we're going to do. I'm going to show you guys a series of historic NBA duos from across the decades of NBA history.

And we're going to put them in the tier list from S through F. So some of these are the best of all time. Some are nowhere close to that. They're F tier. Somewhere in the middle. We're going to gauge of the entire history through NBA duos. Perfect. First off, we have the goats on here.

So I guess we can start, magic and cream. Clear S tier? Clear S tier. Got to be. Clear S tier. Yeah, like you, you are out here, you are winning chips, you are defining your era, you are defining your team and your franchise for years to come, yes. It's pretty cool when a duo has both their players at one point, we're best player in the world. Like they took turns.

That's pretty rare amongst all these duos. So that might make them number one to me. That's just a cool thing that nobody else has on here. Yeah. I agree. When it comes to talking about thinking about the duos in NBA history, they help set that standard. And they set a rare standard too that's only been seen since them. I don't know, maybe one other time.

when it comes to being the best in the world. Yeah. Okay, well, next one we'll do, Carson, I need your opinion on this is you, the registered NBA historian in here. Jewel and Bede and Ben Simmons. This is going to be F. I mean, I'm just thinking

that's got to be the worst duo who we're going to see today. I would think so, but you never know. Well, I guess I'm, yeah, maybe I'm... But I feel like... Nothing. Good. I mean,

nothing. I mean, Joel and B does have like a top top 20 big man peak of all time. So, like, he is carrying some weight here. He does, but I just think, like, Simmons, even though I think that Ben Simmons retroactively gets underrated now because people hate him so much because of the contract, because of, you know, the passing out of the layup against the Hawks, like all that stuff. He was still, don't.

Okay, Doc. He was still giving, like, all-star level impact at this time. But, like, again, I'm just holding it to a high standard. And I feel like this, this is F compared to the alternative. Yeah, everybody on here. I'm not putting a team on here if they don't have a legend. And so if one person is clearly not holding up during the bargain, they could be F. He's not.

And then Ambide compared to most of the number ones, just with the massive playoff dropping. I still feel like he's not going to hold up to most of the number ones. So overall, especially in the years with Ben Simmons. I think he got a lot better. Got better after for sure. But during those years of Ben Simmons, he legitimately wasn't like that top 15, 20 big man peak of all time. It was with like Hardin and Butler, not really, but with Hardin and everything that came after that.

Like 22 to 34 points and 33 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. made some real shitters, bro. I was going through my Twitter back in, I think, the bubble, and I saw, I said something crazy along the lines of, I'd rather have BAM on my team than Joel M. B because of how poorly he played in the posies in that year.

You were a reactionary 19-year-old. That's crazy. Okay. Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. All right. They have a third star. So how does that bring it in? They had, you know, not all these guys had a third star on their team.

They did have a big three. But you do have a, like, this duo does get a ring so that that does elevate them to a certain. Many of them do on here. They could be bare minimum, like, they have to be C probably. I think they're D, man. I mean, like, their peaks, they did not play together at either of their respective peaks. KG was still awesome and was arguably the best defender on the planet at this time. And, like, that's why the Celtics were so great.

They were such a great defense. But Paul Pierce, like, was a very good offensive player. a top 10 players, so I don't know, I'm just thinking like, compared to the team. Maybe C, though. That's not like a huge thing. I would not go above C, but maybe they are C instead of D, but I don't know, man. They could be D.

They're straddling that line. This shakes out. I think if that's what we're deciding between C and D, I think the fact that did have a third All-Star and then a fourth guy who was like, he made all-star teams years after, like, they had more help than a lot of these guys did for a lot of these teams, even some of one-chips with just their star duo. I wanted to put him D

initially. I was just being nice all right we'll go okay well let's compare another Celtics group Jason Tatum and Jaylon Brown see this

this is weird because like they got the chip but before a majority of their duo we spent so much time being like these guys can't play

together these guys are underachieving so like I don't know how much the ring goes back and like

fixes everything that we thought before that yeah but they were young and ascending and they got over those things

they got better they both if we're talking about help though I mean, that's just like one of the most ridiculously talented teams we've ever seen all around that could compensate for like when you did have a down shooting stretch for Tatum that didn't need Jalen to be like the best playmaker, just the overall shooting talent, ball handling defense around them. I think D again. I mean, I think if we have Katie and Pierce and D, I don't know how we could have these guys higher because Pierce is better than Jaylin by a fair bit. Yeah, I think D.

Yeah, we'll go D. We're heading on the Suns six today. I'll take it. I'll go down swinging against the Celtics Okay Steph and Draymond That's S-tier Can they be S-tier

Is two top ten players of all time We'll see that We'll see similar quality again I think Draymond From my pound Top 5 defender of all time But not a top 20 player

Of all time or anything It's when this duo When this duo is Is the nucleus Of one The most modern dynasty That we've seen In NBA history

and potentially the last dynasty that we will ever see in NBA history, I do think that when you have somebody as great as Steph Curry, and then you have, again, on the defensive side, somebody in Dremont where their tandem works so well and so beautifully because it literally is basketball yin and yang. They should be S-tier. They have four chips. And even after all of this,

to go down and they come back up and still win a chip when they are together, I feel like there's a clear talent gap in the top of three duos. think that's where that's where you two differ i don't know where you lie right now carson but i would want to put the mess i'm kind of in between but i'm lean more so maybe a because draymond just isn't that caliber of he's not historic in that level as an individual and this and this is why this is why they won four rings because people have doubted them their entire lives they had kevin the raffir too little bit it was not exactly just them playing the shit on their back i mean but this duo also like led a 73 and 19 like they know they've they've done legendary

stuff before KD. They won a ring afterwards. Like, it's not just Kevin. A tier is legend. That's what I'm thinking. Like, I think Isaac said it where like you're talking about two dudes who were top five like MVP caliber. That's to me what S tier is. However, you make a good case, Donovan, because the resume is there. I mean, I'm so high on both these guys. I think Steph's one of the greatest offensive engines ever. Drey's one of the greatest defensive players ever. They're both so insane on their respective side of the ball and complimentary offensively. I just looked it up the other day. When these two dudes have played together, they have a plus 13 net rating over their entire careers. Like that's ridiculous. That is the level of dominance. It's insane. That's the case

that being said, I still think Draymond is just not the same level of talent. But it's close. If you put like instead of, they are better than the sum of their parts. And I mean, I agree with that. At the same time, like, I know what you're saying. I did the top of eight here, but we have the three best duos of all time that feel like they should be in their own tier. It's like Spoiler, next one, Shaq and Kobe. Yeah, that's, you're all going to Estia. Like, it's, like, that's, that's okay. And again, like, I understand that they, they've repeated.

Yeah. They were also the catalyst of four in eight. And to go to, to go to six finals in eight years and do all that stuff. You can't gloss over the Kevin Durant of that, though. Like that, if it was making stuff, then I'd be like, okay, like, talent-wise, these two can look each other in our eyes and they can also be, like, the best. Katie and Steph and Dreyman. At their peak, yeah.

When I think a duo, I'm just like two best players on the team. I can understand. At their peak, it's the second or third best player in the world. I'm saying what that duo has been able to accomplish when you look at the totality of their careers, it's not. You always geared towards resuminging this, but also how good they are basketball matters. Like, it's not just the team winning they did. Because all these guys won. Like all these duos have a ton of rings.

When it comes to like the duo and what that word, what that phrase tandem actually means, I could understand that totally. but in the NBA sense when it comes to like what do you do when I'm not when I'm having a down night what do you do like at an all time level that we've never seen before is just an entirely different breath of conversation with Cameron that's why Draymond holds them back compared to being with Shaq and Kobe and Karame and magic you know this is just a different caliber talent you know what do you want to do with Gary Payton and Sean Kemp we're hating hard we're not hated all it's eight year we're we're hating hard they're top of A they're top A nope Who? I thought the same thing. I'm trying to give you what you are, man. I just give you some. I thought the same thing. I thought that Moe is putting GP in Camp top of eight here.

These guys are probably like D? No, they're after. They might have to be F. I don't I don't think you can put them in the same tier as people who have also won chips. True. GP was maybe at best like the fifth. best player in the league Sean Kemp was like a top 20 player

Sounds to me like that's pretty similar talent level To Jason Tatum and Jaylon Brown And they didn't win one Like maybe they're Dean but I mean they didn't win one Because those two are just fucking otherworldly They didn't like carry you know Which not to take away from their role now They were obviously incredibly important

But like I think talent level like They might be better than Tatum and Jaylon Brown I'm okay with D You're probably crazy and put on the same tier If you put these Neither of these Celtics teams Will be able to win

Back in the day too with that huge domino and mj in the way too so it's like can you really yeah yeah i don't think taintim and jay would have to be mj either yeah i think you cooked isa i think we should not be too ring culture pilled we have to understand context and i think that they're pretty similar caliber to the other two in detail contextual thinking ones again not for a long ago we're gonna get reactionary pretty soon

yannis and chris middleton be probably see actually they have kind of some of the thing donnell was selling us with step and dream one of like more than some of their parts they fit each other so well and like they didn't have obviously the multiple rings that they had but they had some years of like

consistent number one Cs being the best teams in the East before their bodies gave out that being Chris Middleton. I think they're C-tiered. The fit is crazy. Janus carries. I think C because I think the only year they coincided at like close to their respective peaks

was 2021 where like Middleton was giving you like 25 a game with good playmaking in that run. Janus had improved offensively compared to like 2019 and 20 when he had some really rough playoff series but I just don't think they have the body of work some people will say Paul Pierce is better than

Middleton and isn't Garnett for 2008 comparable to Janus should they be in different years? But 08 KG is not comparable to Janus peak KG absolutely but not by 08 I'm with you guys agree you see? I put them in Cesar what are you thinking because I don't know where you're behind is with this

I mean I think that I think KG and Pierce should be moved up probably to see um but it's just because they're old it's hard to like divorce that but like i mean they still were great we're treating it like kevin garnett was in year 20 at that point but it's but it's also not like yes they had they had the rest of that team but they they peaked when they first got together because like they get together and win the ring they go to multiple finals though as with those two with those two guys they were in another conference finals that stretch for

for like four or five years because even in 2012 they're in the eastern conference finals and They lose to bronze. So, like, there's, there's multiple conference finals appearances. There's multiple finals appearances. They go to two in three years. Like, they have, they have stuff to where, like, their longevity is also good. So, like, I just think, like, they're better than Tatum and Brown. So that's why I would have them above.

I actually think Donovan has cooked. I think that they are probably C. Okay, we'll move them up. I got no gripes. Me person, I wanted to hate on this all this, but who? Kevin Duran, Russell Westbrook. They didn't win. That sucks.

But when it comes to pound for pound, town and they made a finals, made a conference finals. Made multiple. I think they probably belong in B, but because of the lack of success, they might be C or D. 20,

because the town is outrageous. 2015 KD is comparable to Janus in 2021 in terms of abilities. And 2015, Russ is better than Chris Milton. And obviously, didn't get the ring. I don't care too much as that being like to end all be all for a duo's list.

I think how good they are is the main thing. And that duo is more. talented than yon as i think b i agree you just barely though like it's comparable but i i think i'm fine sliding them right above yeah i mean you're talking about story is like them failing at the highest level like blowing three one like that's kind of kind of a damper the narrative but they had the second they had the second best player in the world and another top 10 player and they yeah that's like driving 50 plus win seasons every year and yes they didn't win a ring but the west was absolutely ridiculous i think like yeah they lost the best team in modern NBA history oh no they lost

They're low B. Maybe they're low B, but I think they're B. Yeah, yeah. And their shooting was woeful. They were up 3-1 on that same team. It's also weird because, like, they, for two of their playoff runs, one of them was missing. Yeah.

Like, you're two years in those runs where it's kind of weird because Russ gets hurt and then KD was hurt for a second as well. They had a lot of runs, though. So it's not even like, you know, they set plenty of other runs too. Just, I think the time together also helps the argument. It's a lot of good bites the apple of great years together. I'm fine with B.

Anthony Davis and LeBron James. Wanted a championship together. In the bubble, so it's a weird conversation because the bubble, they were the best two players in the 2020 playoffs, literally one and two in the world. For the whole season, they were number one in what, five in the world, AD that year, six, seven at the worst. Like, legit top ten players that won together

where Damned are 1A1B. Like, AD was just as good as him damn near. So pretty hot. I think A. I think AD was a top three player that season just because of how insane he was in the playoffs. the only argument against it would be like Bubbles fake doesn't matter

We don't get that here That's not an argument We don't do bubbles fake over here I don't do it either But you know The problem is just The problem is just that AD then fell off so hard For 21 and 22

And then he came back up But then LeBron wasn't like Best in the World Calibre anymore I still think that one season That was one of the greatest duo seasons We've ever seen So that puts them an A for me And he also helps to have the best player

On this list besides Prime Jordan and prime run okay Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady put them in F oh man put them in F you just don't

you don't see it they don't they don't get out the first round together they were cooler than Ben Simmons and Joel Mb though

and they were more entertaining yeah but you don't you don't have any type of like baseline success

with that with that team Yo Kitchin Jamal Murray ooh B great fit together Once again, it's kind of like Chris

Milton and Janice. They won together. They're still kicking it. Still consistently when they're healthy playing in the playoffs. Hard to beat. I'm thinking B, loki. I think but if you're thinking B, it's only because Yokic is that level of player.

He is a level of player. And I don't know. I think him and Chris, Jamal Murray and Chris Milton are comparable, but we just got more good years of Jamal Murray and they're still kicking it. If they're together in the playoffs, they're the hardest out in the playoffs

single-handedly with those two there. They're truly a duo offensively in that sense too. Like, it's not like there's other stars around them. Did we get more? years out of Jamal Murray than Chris Milton? Yeah, Jamal Murray still kicking it. Chris Milton, like you said, had like two good years where he was at his peak, but Yonis had his peak contending. Yeah, that was very short.

Yeah. I think that there be as well. I mean, they are close, but I do think it's what you said, Isaac. Just like the ridiculous offensive duo of it, they're one of the best offensive duos ever. And Jamal is definitely a Yokic merchant on that, but like the level he was at in 2023, that kind of shot making, even his playmaking, like 25 a game efficiently.

And the 2020 run also, Jamal was really, really good. The last couple have been disappointing, but I think they are B to me. Because Yokic also like that the greatest offensive playoff. Katie and Russ are significantly more talented as a duo because Russ obviously clears Jamal. So the argument would be that they're closer to Yonis and Chris. But better fit for the nuggets. Better fit for sure.

Yeah. I just think like if you look at, and this is like the interesting part with Yonis and Yokin whenever you start looking at them, like their careers are so similar. and especially in what they've been able to accomplish. Like when you look at the duo of Chris and Yannis versus Yokic and and Jamal, it's like, all right, you both have, you both had like a conference finals before you won the ring, you won the ring, you haven't been back to the conference finals since. You've been out in the second round multiple times.

Like, they are the same. So I would put them in C because you still have an all-time talent in Yonis, the same way that you have an all-time talent in Yolkich. and then you have your sidekick, your number two and Jamal and Chris. I guess you could say to get to be the prerequisite is you have two

all-time talents and Jamal isn't that so maybe they're the best in C. But they're so complimentary, man. Like the Murray-Yokich two-man game when Jamal is playing well is as good as any in NBA history and it's the foundation of like one of the great offenses we've seen.

I think they can be bottom would be your top of C. We can put them top of C honestly. I like keeping B super exclusive to just like oh both of you guys were actually top 10 players and then be at the same time. Okay. Well, speaking of, I'm curious how you feel about this one,

considering who's in B and them and C, having not won and won. James Hardin and Chris Ball. Only one year of match it together, but... It was two years. Well, the second year, Chris Paul was washed. He had a injury and he recovered with OKC, but he was bad the second year. Yes, I'll put them in D. 18 was a good year, but it was one of the best point cards of all time,

still kicking it at damn... His peak still. That was still peak risk ball for the 2018, and James Hardin had one of the most prolific scoring. primes of all time next to one the best playmakers of all time the team that was two made threes away from toppling the greatest team of all time like

wait was how many three you said two many three oh they made two out of 27 oh they made two of three they were the beat yeah the whole team is 27 straight so it's like you have that and then this is not a team ranking don't of it and then and then the next year both of them on their home floor get bounced out in game six

where James Hardin once again is bad so I think like for they don't do Chris Paul was a top 10 player in 2018. He was ridiculous that year. Chris Paul, I just saw this graphic. It's like fantastic in 2K. Combination of volume and efficiency,

like the best isolation scoring season on record from Chris Paul. He was ridiculous that year. And when the best volume scoring season was a totally new system. Yeah. And one of the best offenses we've seen. And they actually were a good defense that year. And like if Chris Paul doesn't get hurt in game six, I don't know.

Even as a Warriors fan, like I think the Rockets could have won that series. So that season alone to me, it's just up a level from, like, what we're talking about in D tier. Like Tatum and Brown as a duo have never been an engine like those two were. GP and Kemp never reached that level as a duo. They're just as talented as James Hart, as Russell Westbrook and KD. I think they just a tier below that because they couldn't do it for as long as a one-year thing instead of like four or five. But that's massive in an NBA terms. But like one year, again, salute to them for that one year.

one year is so different than four to five years where GP and Kemp have that where Tatum and Brown have that so it's like if you want to give them the nod and say in that one year you were as talented and so now you can be in the same tier as these other guys who have who have success for four to five years okay cool but I don't think

that they should be above them is the peak building yeah I think it's why I think a duo list is way more about how good they are rather than as much as a team success as you're pouring into it and they are better than everybody outside of

we just don't care about like I didn't put them a goddamn eight tier what'd be I don't care I'm saying they're seat here don't care about you are disrespecting Sean Cameron they made a conference championship they didn't fucking flop in the first round

I'm talking like their bums for one year like they did it they did it one year and 100% of the year they were in their prong they made a conference championship one year like that's which is why they're not ass tier I'm not saying they should be super high

I'm so like it's great that they did it for if you can't even do it for back to back years because one of the guys they couldn't even finish that one year because one of them got hurt so like you have chris paul who who doesn't make it to the end of year one they fall off it in year two and so it's like for for brown and tatum who went to two finals who went to multiple conference championships for for uh context is keel behind that exactly what are you talking about because they the war the houston rogast are able to do some that year no one has was able to do at all in that era they came the closest by any by who's the third best player

crick clinkapela shout out you almost did that you almost did that year that was able to do that Like, I'm so happy for you that, like, the one, and again, one year they went all in and, like, they did their job. They pushed the worst. They gave us great drama. It was amazing. But you did it for one year. And the next year, you were just a regular team. And then right after that, you had to get rid of Chris Paul because he was so tired of playing with James Harding.

These other teams have built stuff and have accomplished way more than what, than what Paul and Hardin did. And so I don't think that they should be above them. I think, like, at a certain, but you do have to respect what duos are. accomplished together and first of all we're just not we're just not doing that and so it's okay i understand i like i mean it's not okay but like we're just going to keep it moving so you want to put them in deep yes i would like to put them in deep that that's that's that's clearly not going to happen because i'm outvoted three to one i'm just saying the way that we are approaching it with certain people is not it's not correct larry burton and kevin mcale exactly and now we're just

going to move on i also okay hold on the last thing i'll say the last thing i'll say it's not just like obviously 2018 is their peak season 65 wins one of the great offenses had a legitimate chance to beat the Warriors 2019 like yeah they were a little banged up Chris Paul wasn't the same they were still pretty clearly the second best team in the West and like they still played a really good series

against the Warriors and that's the best Hardin's ever played against the Warriors and like that was an intense six so I don't know man I think that they aren't see anyways now we can move on to the whites Larry Bird and Kevin McGill S too No Go ahead

It's in their SRA I do you feel like I don't I have a hard time With Kevin McHale comparisons Like in history Like he's obviously Super accomplished And is like one of the greatest

Power forwards of all time In the same way that like Mangenobloops On the best shooting guards of all time Because like you know Part of that team But I have a hard time comparing him As a second best player

And a duo To like some of these other ones I don't know He was amazing though Between S&A Like he's amazing But I don't know Where that line is for them

If you look at the mid 80s Like when he really reached his he has some ridiculous playoff runs like the 85 to 87 range he's averaging like our 88 to like 25 plus

really efficiently and he was a really good defender I don't think they're S they probably should be S then nobody think of him if Stefan Dremont aren't I don't know man I think they're A

I guess if that's that's the that's they are compared I agree with that if you guys are going to put Stefan Dremont in A in A then Byrne McHale art should be in A too by that logic

Okay, yeah, they're pretty similar. And they're the anchors. Well, actually, because they're not even the anchors. It was a very well-rounded team. I feel like Draymond is more than like he is the defense. But I don't know. I mean, this is Kevin McKell. He was like a top-10 player.

S-T. We ought to. Yeah, we're not to discuss that. That's the big three that I think are the S-tier. Those three are solidified. The greatest three duos of all time. Top 10 players of all time. I mean, top 10 players in the league at the same time.

Top 30 players of all time. At certain years, some of them are best players in the world. In certain years, their duo was the best player in the world. or top five in Scottie Pippin's case, clear cut. Now. LeBron James and Dwayne Wade. That's a hard one because talent-wise, like, yeah, they're a, I could say a top four talented duo,

but deteriorated really fast. The fit wasn't great either, which I think matters a lot. Like as a duo, they made a work because they're so talented, but we never really saw the synergy that strong outside of, I guess, 2013, they really got it together. LeBron's offball game was insane. So there was a flash of that. But it wasn't nearly as complimentary as, like, Stefan Dremont.

And the winning wasn't quite as high because the longevity wasn't there. And, you know, that kind of separates S and A, I think. I think they're top of B, bro. Am I crazy for that? I just think, like, top of B. Yeah, that's crazy. 2011 D. Wade was amazing.

He was a top five player. And then the injuries really piled up. And, like, he took a pretty significant step back for the next three years. He was, he also had a third star. He was, he was good enough. in 12 to her it was like it was okay like that's the last one that you can say 13 and 14 are really the ones where it's like he's on the pitch count he's on like the low man yeah for real so if half of the time that you are not there you like it's not you know like up to par like

that's what that's what i think keeps them out of yeah out of s but they they they get together and again also like shout out chris bosh like obviously there's other people on the team but like they get to four straight finals they win back to back which yeah what outside of yeah before before the worst they were like the last team to go back to back so like i think they i think they should be yeah i think a big sense too right we have a d and lebron there from one great year together yeah let's call it two great years together with dwayne wade both the the peak talents are just so high that i think the argument's probably the same for them both be a tier you're right i agree i think they're low a tier i've been moved damn one team in b tier they released but that makes sense

Because Katie and Russ really stand alone is a unique duo of talent that was like a tier talent but doesn't have the resume to be there like them being standalone doesn't surprise me. Yeah, they have something that every single team that on this list does not have, but also like strength wise, but also weakness wise too. Wait, wait, what do they have that other people don't have? They're star studded, but also on top of that too, they don't have, they didn't get, we're able to get it done like the guys in S or A tier. But then when it comes to C tier, again, when it comes to what? other teams don't have. Chris Paul, shout out to Chris Paul. Shout out to Paul Pierce, shout out to

who's that over there at C-Tier? Who's the last thing? Jamal Murray. Yeah, Jamal Murray. They're not fucking with Russell or Russell. Well, Chris Paul is. Chris Paul is. Chris Paul is better.

Yeah. But when it comes to the Chris Paul stuff too, that's just like longevity. That's what just separates that duo. No, I'm taking 18 Chris Paul over 15 Russ. But it's close. No, I think most saying like the body of work, right? Of what Russ and KD just having way more years in OKC.

Carmelo Anthony and Alan Iverson I mean that's tough but like Don't put him an F? Yeah Or just awful it's general They never made the finals They had one year together But they both average 25

Nice Great year Alan Iverson had it one more time And that's not even the duo That you would put like Talent wise yes But like the more accomplished duo Was him and Chauncey

Yeah for real So it's like yeah we gotta go ahead I agree That 09 some Chonsi was balling that year, but yeah, I think they're out. Steve Nash and Amari Stottemeyer. You.

See? I mean, Steve Nash wasn't MVP. No, I think he's significantly worse than, like, Chris Paul is the second option, that being Amari. And Steve Nash isn't like, they're one of the greatest offensive duos ever. Yeah, yeah.

But at the same time, it was always going to be extremely difficult to win a title with Steve Nash being as massive a defensive liability as he was and Amari at the 5 with his major defensive limitations because like the crazy thing is not only were the sons like among the greatest regular season offenses

ever they were among the greatest playoff offenses ever and they still couldn't win it all because their defense was that below average and like it's because of these two. I almost read it similarly to they don't play like at all but Cat and Brunton like you're just not going to win with those two being

the forefront of your team. That is a divergent of seven seconds or less. Okay, D tier it is then. Damn, D, they're just more talented than, like, Tatum and Brown, though. Yeah, but they're also less talented than Hardin and Chris Paul, less talented than, like, Steve Nash is great, but his peak, I wouldn't quite consider it to be with Jamal Murray and Janus. I think they'd just blow that.

I guess, oh, wait, KG is going to be. Amari's better, like, than a Middleton or a Murray by a decent amount. Obviously, Nash is not Yonis. I'm very anti-5s that hurt your defense. so I don't like I'm to me as like a wash because I'm very against five that sink your defense

if O weight's barring me personally I don't want to put the Celtics down to D 08 yeah me personally every time we do

any type of list you hate the O8 Celtics I don't hate I don't hate them I mean you don't like them then bring it upon themselves you certainly don't respect them

maybe actually been quiet for a minute I know they shut up a little bit you say that wait until next week but okay that's it's been I think it's been like

the go for it I was just gonna say it's been like three weeks since Paul Pierce was declaring himself the greatest score of all times. So they haven't really been quiet for that long. Right, never mind.

That was more about him to 08 though. Yeah. Next is what we're going to do. I'm going to show you guys some NBA players, career points per game. I want you to guess who the player is. We're getting into our trivia bag. We have the trivia king with us. Let's see who carries.

Carson, do not let me down. Please. I'm so sorry about earlier. I'm ready to lock in now. Okay. First off, whose first five years of their career is this? This is Trey Young. Trey Young.

Holy fuck. That was You didn't even look at it Yes, it's straight young Now I'm locked in Now I'm locked in You fucking here That's one of the most impressive things

Hell yeah Bro, I didn't even get a chance To read the first numbers Hell yeah Sorry Okay, player two Who is this? First five years of their career

Once again This is Yonis This is not Yonis Soly guess so Started off slow And by year five They were one of the best scores In the league

In BEEP? Not in Bede No, no, it took to seven points and beat. Nah, he rolled into like 1920. Seven points. I mean, but they're starting from the bottom. Yeah, starting off with either they suck or they don't have a big role, something of the sort. Is Nicole Yokic?

Not Nicole Yokic. Not even close to Nicole Yolkich, actually. I would think complete opposite type of player. Code? This is Kobe Bryant. Oh, yeah. Great call. Great call.

Yeah, we start off as a bench player. By your five, he's a man winning championship. I've looked at these steps players. Damn, you're so right. Who is this? Player number three. This is your 16 through 20. Tyriek Evans.

Tyreek Evans? Year 16? I just saw the numbers going down. I just saw the numbers going down. I didn't look at years. 16 through 20s. Damn, Tyree Evans. Stop have you on mind.

Okay, we got to think about dudes who played that long at all. Exactly. Chris Ball. Nope. Dirk? Nope. This isn't Vince. I don't think.

I don't think it's Robert Parrish. Robert Perish. By year 16 and 17, like to be here 16 through 18 is still a solid score. kind of rare yeah that is pretty rare but it's not uh the bad it's not tim duncan but you're close you're very close you should get it now kj Kevin garnets nice yeah yeah if you played 21 seasons this is up until the second the last one no he you know why he was there yeah listen you got two at a three so far so far don was beating cars he got that paper yeah fuck I got a lock yeah next up whose first 10 years is this oh my goodness yeah oh wait none

I'm on, no, my, no, no, my. Let me chill. First 10 years. So they start off three points for games. They're going from three years. They're not a factor as a score until year five. But then from year five to 10. Yeah.

Once they hit their stride, they hit their stride. This before. This is Steve Nash. This is Steve Nash. Wow. This is Steve Nash. Man. How'd you get that?

God damn. I recognize the exact numbers for like the 05. He averaged 15 and a half and 06. He averaged 18.8 because he had to ramp up his scoring volume that year, of course, because Amari was hurt. And he was a very slow starter Logic wins Now all the time

He needs to be looking at numbers Oh, music, Kid Who's first 10 years is this? Oh wow You put him on a goddamn list man Who is this? Cracks 10 points for game once

2.2, 2.5 PJ Tucker Not PJ Tucker I suppose it's not a bad guess Not a bad guess 10 years, one year 10. Patrick Beverly

Nope, nope, nope, nope, keep thinking that's a pretty good that's a good that's a good guess too they have one year where they just popped exploded for 10 points again whoa career year so oh my god this player was on contending teams so you know it wasn't a high usage player because he's on good teams but was a oh no is this like jared dudley not jared dudley um you're thinking about that one brooklyn year that was like your fucking 60 like derr fisher or something not derrick fisher but you're you're thinking along the right lines of type of role players all feel like good guesses Okay

You got one more guessing before I give it up Because I don't think you get this one I don't think you have 100 Perkins Nah This isn't You guys don't have the ball

No so you get this one This is someone disgusting Like let's get real nasty as possible Carson I need you to lock that Ultimate animal I know I will

I will I will Elisa Tiger 10 years They were on contending teams Yes I got to let them He has a ring

I'll give you that He has a ring He made a finals The two teams Three teams Oh Multiple shifts Oh hold up

One one Is this, is this true? No one twice. No, made the finals with three teams. I was going to say Javelle McGee, but you're close. You're very close. Oh my goodness.

This is Kendrick Perkins. He averaged 10 in the year? Yep. In the seventh year in the league, average 10.1 points. I should have stuck with my guys. Oh, he was hooping. I didn't think you get to 10.

Whose first five years is this? That is Joelle and B. For sure. Yeah. Instant pull. That's Joel Mb. You see two missed years and then an immediate bucket. We are all into 20.

what I said earlier. Yeah. Whose first five years is this? 14, 13, 17, 16, 15.9, 23. They're solid for four years and have a fifth year leap where they really jump into being like, Victorola Depot. Wow. This is Victoro.

Great pull, dude. Yeah. He is the, when I think about breakout year, what an MIP is, something that I, whenever I argue what MIP is, he's the definition of that, literally. Solid and it makes that leap at age 26 or whatever. Good pool. Who's first five years of these? This might be Tyree.

Jabar. No, no, no, no. That was about to, that's too big a number. 20. Rookies, the average 20. And they go downhill a little bit every single year. Damn. There's no way it's this dude.

Shout out Bill Cartwright, though. He had a big-ass rookie star. You know, goddamn little. I thought it kind of makes sense. I haven't thought about Bill Cartwright in years. Wow. 20 points. Guys who average 20 in the rookie year.

That's a lot of points, man. Tyreek didn't get to 20. I'm trying to think about Duttu had big work. He did. This is Tyree Evans. Oh, really? Okay.

Yep. I said that earlier. He didn't. You said, you thought our names, but I guess, I know. I do that one.

I was conviction. You were like, is it Tyree? You're like, talking amongst yourselves. That is Tyree Evans. You did that with them. Hell yeah.

Whose year 13 through 17 is this? This is Kevin Durant. This is Kevin Durant. Jesus. It can only be a couple guys. He's disgusting. Stupid. What do you mean?

27, 27, 27, 29. What do we talk? talking about 29 year 15 be normal ridiculous just stop getting so many buckets fuck post achilles bro Jesus wow he's unbelievable what a god damn sense whose first 10 years are these all right so you start out with five points once again explode for 10.8 points per game draymond green nope nope no not two points three years in a row scoring 10 points is pretty good it's not joe kimono is it I think no it's not just no I would say it's the opposite of

Jo Kim Noah as a player. Oh. So, okay, so Joaquin is like... So it's like a guard? Yeah, a guard is something. Pat Bev? Not Pat Bev, but you're closer. Getting warmer.

Ricky Rubio. Not Ricky Rubio. Keep going more extreme in your pick. Rondo? It is Rondo? No, more extreme. You're getting closer. You're sniffing it out.

Just get more and more dramatized. More and more dramatized? Yep, yep. The most extreme version of the archetype you're thinking of. Jason Williams? A more extreme Jason Williams

The most extreme player in this way that's ever existed This is Bugsy Bugs Oh Yeah, that makes sense We can't get more extreme In 5 or 3 I don't know what you're talking about Yeah

I'll let us to the wall You're letting us a stray man You're letting us up to die You're being small players I'm like getting smaller Who's first 10 years is this Jesus man Score 30 though

It's 30 in your 7 After 23 in your 7 after 23 in year 6 This is Dwayne Wade This is not Dwayne Wade What? Mello Not

Matt McHale-Noh I think this is Mellow How many times The Mellow average 30.1 He had Mello never averaged 30 Yeah I don't think so When they

I think his career I was 28.7 He had 28.7 in 2013 From the Olympics Yeah When they came back To be after 30 Yeah

Okay Who is this? Let me see I'll say This one's not hard Team Matt Nope, not Team Mac. Look, they have the first three years

where they're a good player Oh, Steph Curry, Steph Curry. This is Steph Curry. Yeah, damn. Yep, yep. I should recognize that off. Solid and then just miraculously shoot up to MVP level of year six.

That 23.8 should have got me. Yeah. And 30. Yeah. Okay. Whose first 14 years is this, their entire career? Well, Reggie Evans. Nope, nope, they both.

What a put a pool. Jared Dudley. Not Jared Dudley. PJ Tucker. Not Afroquimino. I'll say, if you get this one, I will be flabbergasted. 14 years in the league

Doug Rivers Not Doug River Man, Reggie Evans felt so good Crazy. Reggie Evans is like a decent guess I mean it is Quincy

Hell not 14 years is a long time to stick around bro It is And it's not 14 years I felt so good With Reggie Evans

and PJ Tucker off rip Those felt so good You're an incredibly new player bro Only broke over eight points per game One time Above 14 years This is this is Joe Klein

This is 1980s and 1980 Joe Klein This guy somewhat modern player was on good teams

somewhat modern player on good team Modern NBA Okay so Pat Bev is not this bad If only Kavan Looney had played 14 years This could be his

You know it's a similar story To that I think In terms of like Why he's on the team Some guy who was just Around stable guy In the locker room Yeah

Nick Collinson No I like it And you're real close Flip it It's probably black guard Guys, come on It's not making it all about race

Oh, is Todd Gibson? No, this is James Jones Oh, damn Oh yeah, I'm not thinking about James Jones Off the top of my head, man I was like kind of close to Nicholson I see what you're cooking Okay

Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Solid showing there. You guys got more than you missed I think Damn, I want to keep doing that For the rest of my life, that was fun Yeah This is why we keep you locked away

for the rest of my Okay, but we're going to stick on the topic of trivia. I'm going to show you guys 10 Michael Jordan trivia questions ranging from easy to difficult to niche all over the place. We're going to see which one of you guys can get the most. There's 10 of them.

One of you guys has to get four or more. First of four. So one of you guys will win knowing the most about Michael Jordan. All right. So we'll start off easy. Michael Jordan wore numbers 23 and 45 in a game,

but he also wore a third number on an NBA court. What number is that? 12. there you go bonus points if you can tell me how many points you scored in that game i have no idea carston you know how many points you scored in that game 40 something i'm gonna say 17 carson you have an exact number uh 47 49 damn you're real close yes you want number 12 one time and somebody stole jersey he ain't hit it put on some random bullshit yeah that's funny okay so yeah we're we're starting off with the layup we'll see who can get that one you got it one point to donovan

number two in one season jordan played point guard for a month and recorded 10 triple doubles and 11 games. What season was that? 1991? 1987. Mo got it. It's 89. Nice. Okay.

That's the 32. 80s fact. That's the 32. That's not. Good work. Yeah. I'm surprised that's the one you got. That's such a niche one.

I pay the assist numbers, man. You know why he knows this one? Because he had to think of arguments against it. People pulled it out in LeBron argument. He could have been LeBron if you wanted to. He did it in 89. he's had the counters ready for years. So D-Hady, man.

You know my bad. Okay. What shoe brand did Jordan want to sign with before going with Nike? Redis, right? Adidas, Carson, got it. I watched the air movie. Yep, that movie was like, loki good. It was amazing.

I never watched it. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Now, it's hilarious that the guy playing, what's the main character's name? Sunny? Yeah. Sunny with something with a V. Vicaro?

Sonny Vicaro. Yeah. by Matt Damon, way too hot to be Sonny Vicaro. He's supposed to be a goblin. And they got Matt Damon. And they made him add a little weight, a little fat suit,

still too hot. Yeah. Good movie though. Okay, we're tied up at one point. We'll see who takes a lead down. What is Michael Jordan's greatest fear? Birds. Failure.

Not birds. Not failure. He has a phobia, a documented phobia of something like, you know, like a real world like phobia. I have no idea. Not snakes? Weak.

Responsible. that's crazy financial literacy no it ties with something that happened to him as a kid off court accountability not heights not heights but you're getting closer with heights planes flying nope not planes it's not a good guy it's the opposite car cars drowning

because his dad yes he has a fear of water somebody close to him drowned as a kid he's been scared of water his entire life damn wow damn like yeah that makes sense Yeah, yeah, that's a normal. It makes sense. Two points for Mo. Hey, Mo's winning the Michael Jordan trivia quiz.

Y'all better let Mo win. Mo hates Jordan. No, this is cool. Do you LeBron was scared of water? Never. Never. The fuck. You think LeBron?

Never, no. Next up. How many home runs that Michael Jordan hit in his 117 professional baseball games? One. Zero. Zero. It's not zero. There's a number here.

Damn. Five. It's not five. Seven. It's not seven. Three. It's three. Carson gets it.

I knew it was going to be one. One of the lowest numbers. He stuck. I kept going up. I should have. It's one of the small things. He was just out there trying shit. I was literally going zero, one, two, three.

Yeah, I don't know. He might as well I'm saying, one, two, three, four. I was about too about, like, let me have some new form in this should be a game. I was, I was not going above four, bro. I was like, no way. His numbers were awful. One of the smallest numbers you could say without saying zero. Yeah.

But I'm surprised. He only had a 220 batting average for his career. The three home runs. Damn, monster. Listen, that 2.20 is how they have them. That's how they train them now. You're good with the 220. The problem is you're not good with the three homers.

Yeah. You're not good with 220 and double A. Like, exactly. It's Birmingham. Can you spot Birmingham on a map? I think so. I think so. I think if you show me, if you show me Alabama, I think I can't because I'm

offender right next door. Okay. I know. I know Carson can't. It's in, which part of Alabama is it in? It's North Alabama, right? North Alabama, that's what I said.

Yeah, yeah, that's my God. Yeah. Montgomery's East, maybe. What age did Michael Jordan go bald? 28. I was about to say 28. Fuck, 29. 26.

Not 26. 25. 25. He just made this is not right, bro. We need a limit how many answers are allowed to get, bro. He's literally nerfing. He just wants to. to win so badly you don't care how you do it

dirty or right bro well no the first time I'd like smack the table because all you merch and that's what he is god damn it's me not ever hear you complain about no volume scores in your life first ever first of all I smacked the chair because I was trying to buzz in and then the next question I was going to do that and you yelled out the answer so once you did that

I'm like okay I can say whatever so it's not my fault you are a repeat offender and I'll do it again I'll do whatever thing you are I see I promise he went ball at 25 50 year of his career. LeBron didn't even go bald at 25. Yes, he did.

No, no, no, no, he did not. He did not. He was going bald of 25. He just went unballed after. If LeBron has shame, he would have weren't bald at 25. True. M.J.'s's bald head was clean, though. He had a clean.

He's got, like, the best bald head out. Because he owned it. Or he had no choice but two. Nah, he could have, who would a two-pack? He could have gone to the Turks, bro. Braun went to the Turks. He could have gone to the Turks. In 1988, the Turks, they would have fucking fucked him up.

The science was not involved. They would have ruined his life. And they would have said someday Shangoon. How many points to Jordan score in Space Jam Against the Monstars? 129. Nope. In their final game.

98. 98. You guys are way too high right now. 45. 65. 49. Nope. 47.

Somebody else gets numbers so he can stop. 40. 43. 25. 42. 42. 42. 42.

49. 49. 41. 40. 40. No, 39. 53.

35. He's in the 40s. The only one nobody said, I think. 44? 46. Oh, fuck. You? Did I not say that?

You watch it? Damn. I think I might say 44, we mumbled it while you talked, so I wasn't sure. Like, yep, no. He scored 44 points against the Monstars

in the final game. Watch yourself. He didn't even go outside after this part. 100% from the field, 22 shots, 18 were dunks. He had the Bill Wall National Championship game.

That's crazy. I'm like 20 for 21. Damn. Well, Michael Jordan didn't miss. How about that? No, true. He's bad. Michael Jordan famously punched Steve Carr in the face.

He's also confirmed to have punched another teammate. Scott Burrow. Not Scott Burrow. He hated Judd Bushler. He hated those lame white guys. Nope. Harper? It is a white guy.

Oh. Popper. Do you put him? No. It's not a player that you think about as a bull. This is only known because this player came out and said he punched me. Not Bill. More irrelevant.

This guy played for a long time with the Bulls, but wasn't one of the more. Important players. What? Nope, no, he wasn't an important player on the championship teams but he was on the team

for a long time. He had a long career. Do we say, uh, Jet Bush, though already? Yeah. I don't know,

but it's not him. This is a player that I'm pretty sure neither one of you guys have ever said his name. I've never said his name. You, you damn sure haven't said his name.

Luke Longley? Nope, you've said his name. Uh, was it Dave Corzine? Nope, I don't know who that is. Just thinking about white guys.

He was there before they won titles. Think about white bowls. My bag is a player I'm not familiar with outside of the story. You guys are currently tied at two questions each, right? No, I have three. Oh, you have three. You broke out.

This one might be a, I don't think anybody doesn't get this one. This might be. I'll definitely know who it is. I'm just trying, but I can't think of white dudes. I'm thinking of Randy Brown. Maybe he's not white. Maybe I don't know, actually. I'm assuming by his name.

Maybe he's not white. Because I've just, I'm just right. Is it Dickie Simpkins? What the fuck? No. Okay, that's an actual person. I'm, I don't know. This is Will Purdue.

Fuck. I should have gone to what he is. I'm upset. I'm upset. He said he was setting hard screens in a practice and Jordan said, do that shit again. You'll pay for it. He did it again. And he gave him a black eye. He was on the team playing the next day with the Shiner.

Apparently Michael Jordan did apologize in the team playing though. Oh, shit apology, man. It's like such a lie. He gave him a black eye. Dang. That, that sucks. I should have, I should have guessed, Pruddin. Yeah.

I should do. I said, Wettington Longley. Purdue should have been the next white bit. Yeah. Yep, yep. Yeah. All he was doing was the coaching were, the coaches were telling him to set hard screens. That's what they were practicing. And he said,

went a little too hard on Jordan. He said, do that shit again. You will pay. And he paid. Man of his word, at the least. Should have shown MJ a body of water. He called his shot. You got to respect that.

He said there's shown a body of water. Unlike LaBolty lies all the time. Lying ain't harmful. It's only harmful if you're dumb and you're stupid. He said lies is not harmful. Yeah. The time of the Blondevon, dude, it's not harmful. No, it's not.

What team did Michael Jordan scores career high in points again? How many was it? The Cleveland Cavalier 69. Oh, I was thinking of the playoff. Cleveland Cavalier is 69. Donovan is at four points. Donovan wins. We have a few more questions out to see who comes in second place.

You respect that? Do you respect that? No. How is Carson getting cooked in trivia? That answer, you got it. Twice as many points is Carson in trivia? I need more questions about his rookie year team, who was their leader and assist Ennis Wadley, I think.

Yeah, yeah. I'm going to pull up. Quinn Daly. Where are the Quinn Daly question? Who's smart now? Yeah, he can only, he's a one dimensional. When we talk about bald heads, who's the Gini now.

One dimensional. Where's your bag at? I'm getting clicked on the baldness trivia. What did Michael Jordan name his oldest son? Michael Jordan. Nope. Marcus. Nope.

Wait. There's another one. What named Michael Jeffrey Jordan give his oldest son? Michael. Not Michael. Wait, well, you heard to guess that. His oldest son is his oldest son.

Marcus is not number one. He had one before that. I had no idea. Hey, man, what he does in his free time, I don't know. Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Named his son, Jeffrey Michael Jordan. Wow. This is why he's not the goat, bro.

This is another reason why he's not to go. He just flipped the names. He just flipped his son's names. That's it. It's more creative than you're giving your son your own name. Yeah, but since the start, he called his son Bronito. It's different. I don't know if it's good creativity to flip the names.

Is that cool? I don't know. Jeffrey's not a point. You didn't even know he existed. Did you know what this is? No, you didn't. Come on. We don't break them.

I'll be nice. I'd be nice. Okay. Last thing we're going to do today. Either way, you lost. You did lose. If I was a volume of Jordan trivia, then I would win. Next thing we're going to do,

2K has recently put out a bunch of ratings talking about the top 10 players at different skills, and I want you guys to react to three of them and try to guess who the top 10 is at these skills. We'll start off with three-point shot. Who is the top 10 in 2K-26? Steph Curry number one. Steph Curry is clearly number one.

Start there. Anthony Davis should be here somewhere. Anthony Davis is not here. Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards is not on here. That's wild shit. That is Dames. That is O'Dee.

Is Dame on here? Dane is not on here. Clay Thompson. Clay Thompson is number three. Okay. Malik Bees is here 110%. I don't know if Malik Bees is in the game. Malik Beesie might be in 2K jail.

Well, he needs to be in the game so you can make some money. Get the royalties up. Yeah. Do they have like? Luca on here? No, Luca's not on here. These are all,

what they did is it seems like they did like per 36 minute three point makers or something like that. Trangang is not on here. Triang is not on here. Okay.

Tyrus Max is 100% should be here. Terry's Maxx isn't on here. No. Duncan Robinson. I'm thinking Spockenry. Tyler Hero. You all spamming names

that are not on here. Think harder. Tyler Hero is not here. Jerry Trent Jr. Hell not. Desmond Bain. Desmond Bay is number four. How was,

now you said Duncan Robinson. There's a few Duncan Robinson types towards the bottom. Luke Canard Luke Canard's got to be here Luke canard's number 8 Oh great Oh wait I lied

Anthony Edwards is number 10 I missed that Okay He's an 87 three pointer Which is still too low Pay and Pritch Sam Houser Sam Houser number nine Nice

Sam Houser's the same Three Pointer as Anthony Edwards When it comes to difficulty A shot I can't Can't get with that No Who are we missing at two Two five six and seven

Dude so Malik Vizzi's not here Millie Biz he's not here Again jail Damn Malik They fucked up y'all Did they put Carinthi Talts on here?

They did not. They have a small fort. Oh, what? Yokich? Yokish is in Thotton 3 is now. Darius growing. Nope. Six and seven are shooting guards.

M.P. Two is a bigger guy and five is a shooting guard. Chrisas for Zingis. Hell not. Two's a bigger. Oh, Wemby. No.

No. K. K.D. Yes, it's KD. Like Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Duran is Kari on here.

Caii is not. The three guys left are a specialist. Well, one guy's not. not a specialist, but he's a shooter. I'm surprised with one guy's on here. And then two, three-point specialists. They gotta get Darius Garland on here.

Why isn't Garland on here? Two, three-point specialist. And then, okay. Guard. Is Austin Reeves on here? You're just saying name, hell no. Klinger for Symmy.

Elite pure shooters. Sam Meryl? Sam Meryl's not on here. Damn. I don't think you guys aren't get this. They got put, they put, they put, Fontecchi on him?

What? You guys are just straight saying names. Five is Isaiah Joe. Oh, that's fair. That's fair. Which is crazy. And eight is great Allen. Yeah, those all make sense.

Bro, Levine shot like 44% from three last. Katie only had 91 is weird. Damn. But I. All these makes sense for the most part. It has to be higher. Yeah, 87. Like maybe they're saying show us again, but the season he just had is one of the

craziest off the triple three point shooting seasons of all time. Yeah. Okay, next one. The top ten ball handlers. Kyrie. Carrey is number one. Has to be on his. Steph Curry.

He knows the best of them. I know that... Steph Curry is too. Right? Steph Curry's too. Yeah, he's got to be here. Garland is not here. I know that because I saw somebody get mad about it.

And that's insane because I think Garland might have the best handle in basketball. Yeah, especially when you see the bottom few names, Garland should certainly be on here. I bet Katie's on here. Lamello's on here, but Kevin Durant is number 10. He's the worst handle on here in 92. Tray Young's here? Trayton's number four. Jalen Bronson.

Katie at 10, like, okay, for his size. Sure. Yeah. She's got to be on here, right? Yeah, he's 100% on here. She's number five. Honestly, too low. They put Luca on here?

They did put Luke on here, which is kind of weird to me. I feel like Garland has a better handle than Luca. That definitely. Lucas is at 8. 95 overall handle. Garland's handle's crazy, bro. The Hesies. All right.

Who else would be on here? Would they put D. Mitch on here? They did not put D.Mitch. That's a good guess. That's a good guess. Tyrese Alber. Terry Talbot is not on here The rest of them are point guards

And then one shooting guard left No Terry's Not that Not that crazy Number three I think you guys should be able to get number three Maybe Maxi Maxi is not on here

No Maxi no Darius guard I think number three is like a similar mold James Harden James Hardin is on here James Hardin is number seven So you're saying similar I'm thinking either like Dame or Chris Paul

Nah No Dame no Chris Paul Hmm They don't Kate Cunningham They wouldn't have Hell no Kept and handle Fuck no

No No No No Number three Who's number three Who's number three Who's

Flashy ball handler You guys should know Number three Flashy ball handler Yeah Oh yeah Keros Lavert

Stones Man Stones This is like This is a The flashiest highlight guy I can imagine

That you haven't said Well I'm really I'm really Blankin right here I mean Flash is just like a ball handling merchant Yeah This guy is

He's the mom He lives on House of Highlights Mm Lives on Hoh, okay Number three is John Morant Oh That's stupid I'll still give you guys a chance

For six and nine I get it His handle is crazy Six and nine Some older like veteran But not old yet But middle their career guards Okay

And it's not Bronson It is Brunson Oh I said him Oh I said him earlier Okay Oh I didn't hear you Okay Brunson is number six Nice number nine

One more Number nine is a shooting guard I'm surprised to see him as high But I don't hate it Devin Booker That doesn't make sense That doesn't make any sense Yeah that doesn't make sense

How mean he has a good handle I don't know if I'd say I mean 93 Compared to the guy's office There should be more guys above 93 Over Donovan Mitchell though He was on here Yeah

He was That's crazy Donald has a better handle Donovan has a flashier handle, but Booker is a very good tight handle. I don't think that's insane. It's very functional, but it's not top two. Yeah. It's like Katie.

Yeah. When it comes to be able to navigate and having that ability to do so, Donovan has that way more than that. I don't think Booker having a 93 handle rating is crazy, but like Garland 796. There should be other guys higher. They got stingy. Okay. Top 10 in driving dunk.

Is your bag. All right. What is his bag? Yeah. I don't know. But John Morant. John Morant is number two. Andy Edwards

Anthony Edwards number one It makes no sense And has a 10 higher dunk Than he does three What? That is just like The idea Anthony Edwards

He's a better shooter now Zaya He is Zion is number 10 Yannis is an insane dunker though He isn't insane dunker But like the three should be closer Like his dunks are crazier

More so than he like He doesn't dunk a ton But when he does like His ability to post drive people Yeah he's a postures per dunk Statistic Through the roof I guess the tendencies are just like

slid back for a man yeah is a man on here men is number four 96 driving dunk jeline yonness is three yonis is not on his list what the fuck well they can't give yonis a crazy driving dunk rating because he's seven feet tall so if he had a 99 driving dunk he'd be impossible to defend he is impossible to defend yeah no wait again yonis doesn't dunk as much as used to he lays up way more than he did back in 2019 um i'm trying to figure how much this is like like levin levin is number eight i'm trying to figure out how much is like flare versus funk You know, like how much is this your flashy dunker? Okay. Aaron Gordon.

Aaron Gordon's number nine. Nice. Good call. Who's a good mix of flare and function. Yeah. So we got three, five, six, and seven. Three is function. Five is flash.

Jalen Johnson. Jalen Johnson's three. Okay. Function. Dunk with one hand on a fast break. Okay. Five, six, and seven. Three radically different players.

One's an all star. One's a role player. One's a dunk merchant. Okay. All-Stars. MacClawn. D. Mitch? Not Mac MacMach. Not D. Mitch. No D. Mitch. That's a good guess. That's a good guess.

Is LeBron on here? Hell no. Dude. I'm thinking about 2K, man. Tatum or Brown? Brown, yes. Jailen Brown is number six. Okay. Okay. Makes sense. LeBron's absurd, man. True.

You still want him to be a 99. I know, man. This 2K brain is all by the side. I'm trying to win. Five and seven left. Stefan Castle That's kind of a crazy Not Castle Oh seven is a role player

Forward Obie topping Nope What the fuck Small four Not a bad guy Two three Small Ford

And five is a young player Flashy Dunk Merchant At this point of his development Shady Sharp This is Shaden Sharp And then The last one got to be Derek Jones Jr.

Yes it's Derek Jones Jr. Okay Okay You guys effectively tackled that one And that's the end of this episode If people are so here Carson what do you want them to comment man i hope that they just comment about

equality and us not having a race war a lot of things were said today that could provoke a race war in the comments i think it's better if we don't uh i do want to apologize i want to apologize as the white guy on the pod for failing so badly during the white guy draft but i will do better next time shot to equality shout up to nerds the best thing that you could have did for equality was let us give you lashings in the white guy

draft like you really took one for the team and like brought in last shit it was like a well I win for us you let it happen I consider myself a progressive Isaac and so yes I was aware of that I was on the worst end of that too man yep yeah I just don't work I'm sorry there had to be some collateral

damage Mo I'm sorry oh yeah take out the darkest one with you look at that you're not really take out the Africa bro god damn with that being say comment equality check out nerdsession on YouTube Spotify audio platform TikTok everywhere follow Carson on Twitter

we'll put it in the description for you guys check out all their platforms you have a great show been on a couple times probably be on a couple more times thank you and with that being said we'll see y'all next week see y'all

that was great hell yeah that was a ton of fun thank you guys for having me of course I appreciate you coming on appreciate you like three and a half hour stamina yeah dude no problem no problem that was a joy