The Deep 3 Podcast - We Tier Listed The Best & Worst NBA Power Forwards

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

Tier listing 2025 NBA power forwards! #nba Check out the TD3 merch: https://the-deep-3-shop.fourthwall.com/ Listen on Spotify!: https://open.spotify.com/show/3elbbqVumwqz8wlIdknsLW Listen on Apple Podcasts!: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-deep-3-podcast/id1657940794 Follow us on TikTok!: https://www.tiktok.com/@thedeepthree Follow us on Instagram!: https://www.instagram.com/thedeep3podcast/ Isaac's twitter: https://twitter.com/byisaacg Mo's twitter: https://twitter.com/Mojo99_ Donnavan's twitter: https://twitter.com/Dsmoot3D Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We are going to put 15 of the 30 starting power forwards in the NBA into a tier list. Actually, a very exciting one. There's a lot of young stars here. Ooh. I got one of them. Let's do this shit. What do you want to start with? We have S through F, as always.

Set the marker, put Yannis in S. Okay, Janus. Still number one. Really no competition. There hasn't been for his entire prime. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Now, what do you want to do with Scotty Barnes? I mean, right now he's been hooping. Right now he's playing like one of. of what, the three best power forwards in the world? Three to five. There's a lot of great ones on here, so I don't know where we'll fall,

but he's certainly been tier two after Yonis. A tier then. So he's A tier. Right now he's playing like that. If you think that Brandon Ingram has genuinely come in here and changed his life and that his life is forever changed, okay, cool. We can go Ateau.

I do buy that. Now that he has one more score, take the pressure off of him. He doesn't have to beat your team's leading field goal attempt maker. He can just be an elite defender, awesome secondary passer, awesome screener, awesome individual. score when he's not tasked

would be in that main guy he's the most well-runner player on his list I think and probably one of the three or four best defenders I say that because there's a lot good defenders on here but he's in that top tier

with Mowbly and so forth okay so let's go straight to Mr. 18 and 8 what are you going to do with Evan Mowgli have B tier no that's funny as hell 18 and A is pedestrian

so he's still a tier though right even with the fact he didn't take the leap he wanted him to make he still is a DPO wide level defender offensively he might just be 18 and 8 forever

even even even even then, 18 and 8 in DPOI level defense? Great player. Amazing player. My question is, who's been better this year? Mowgli with, keep in mind, we're disappointed by the lack of leap, but he is still very good, or Scotty Barnes. And I asked that because Raptors fans have had a chip on their shoulder for the entirety of Scottie Barnes' career

because it's been a debate that has haunted them rookie year. They're taking victory laps because Scottie Barnes on a rookie of the year. Then last year, obviously Moby lapped him. Now they're back for a vengeance. Who's better so far these 25 games? I say call it chalk, put them in the same tier, man. But who's better, stand on it? I think Mowgli's the better defender.

But Scottie Barnes, he damn near might be first team all NBA as well this year with having much better offense and doing way more often. First team all defense, me? Yes. Okay. This is what All-Star weekend is for.

Yeah. Put them both on the court, one-on-one. Let's see who's better. Scottie Barnes might kill him. That would be the worst one-on-one game we'll ever see. That might be the most ridiculous matchup you can imagine. Mobile don't even take advantage of like six-five guys as is.

What are you going to do with Scotty Barnes? We got Scottie Barnes and jumpers over DPOI. They would both never score. That would be gross basketball. That's a way to tank ratings. Jalen Johnson. Probably about D-Tier. He's a bad defender.

He's a bad defender. I think like once Trey comes back and his usage goes all the way like down, then I think we'll probably get to him. I want to give him credit because like he has been playing well, but probably D-tier. I don't like I don't think you're building a franchise around him. hello yes officer this man right here is trying to mug me from my dreams hopes and aspirations black man beanie on get him right here some bullshit man he is a tier i think as well he's less of course stamped as someone like scotty barnes and evamobie he doesn't have

any accolades just yet coming late to the scene but when it comes to just now he's my beard grown man let's get some headtop is grown obay i told you he has to that too. It's fine. He'll be okay. He'll either cut it down or let's get some waves. I DM'd him a couple of braders in Atlanta so he should be straight within the next week to two weeks. You're the hair plug? Yeah exactly. I know some people. You think he would look good with Brits?

I don't know. But we'll find out. Nevertheless, he is playing into A tier right now. He's the best offensive player in this tier. Worst defensive player. Probably nets out to the same tier. I don't really know between these three who I'm going to rank higher given this season. I'll probably lean Moby being the best player

here. But Jalen Johnson is making a case for himself. This is one of the best playmaker. Actually, this is the best playmaker on this tier list, I think. And he's currently shooting 42% from 3. So he's a problem right now. Yeah, he's just constantly improving. Like last year, two years ago, whatever I talked about him as like, oh, this guy's

really interesting. And of course, like, we're seeing him, we notice him. There's not much to talk about though because there has been much proof because of the constant injuries happening time and time again. And so far, knock on a goddamn wood, he's been healthy. And all the skills that I talked about years ago, whether it be the shooting, the past,

once long ago was the defense that has waned off as now he realized that he's important at work now and he's asked to do so many things as the lone star so it's crazy man A tier Jalen Johnson we're here Yeah maybe it's reactionary Maybe he'll slow down and live up to this but Nah no no no no it's real

At the very least he's B tier I agree Zion Williamson That is D too No not D he can't be D Come on now D Jonathan Kaminga is someone who's like in

They both suck Keep my everybody on here is a star And most of them are good. So, like, it's not, he's not, I don't know. And I would put Kaminga at minimum, a tier lower than Zion. So we can put Kaminga and F, and we can do that. We can put Kaminga and F. I think that Zion right now, as, like, Zion is one of you,

are you not disappointed with what you've seen from Zion? Of course I am very. Even whenever he's been on the floor. Yes, big or not. I am actively discussing in Zion Williamson right now that I'm willing to go D out of pure hatred in my heart for what I've seen as a long time Zion Williamson Truther. We've converted it.

But we might have to push it up once we see who he's around. Dude, let him do it. Then we push it up. When he earns it, we can put him back up to A tier, put him back up to B tier at minimum. This guy got skinny, got worse, and got hurt even more.

There is no silver lining right now. He has been complete bullshit as a defender, complete bullshit as a leader, complete bullshit as a franchise player. There is no reason to be optimistic about Zion Williamson in 2025. I agree. I'm not optimistic at all.

There's nothing. You got it. I don't do what you want this team I cut him because it's better for their long-term outlook they might cut him you know you might fire him animal of Donovan in you right now they might fire him from his job I have to take you to the nearest Catholic church you have to be like drinks for I have to drown you he got skinny hurt his hamstring more often got skinny stop dunking as often stops going at the rim as often he's not as efficient I get it horror stories please I get it he has just been very average as a number one option so far this

season. This is his last season as a number one option, I fear. He's still not D-Tor though. I mean, yeah, realistically, I mean, he's popular. I guess B or C, but like, when you bring in the unreliability factor and how much you want him on your roster

to build around, most people, most fans probably won't touch him with a 10-foot pole. So he might be an F tier for a lot of people. For reasons, obviously not entirely about their on-court production. But you can't divorce those reasons with Zion Winston. Okay, all right.

We'll see. We'll see. I hate this guy. Put him in D. He already did it? Yeah. All right. Donovan, show me your best first down celebration.

Okay, that's what's in your bag? Mind you, that's 2024 Eagles. There you go. We're taking a quick break to show you Donovan's first down celebration to remind you to check out our NFL show, House Call. The playoffs are around the corner. It's going to be hilarious watching us give a week-by-week update of Donovan's team, my team, the quest to find out what Mo's favorite team is going to be in the NFL in his first season as a fan. Check it out right now.

A lot of the same format you know in love from TD3. but in the NFL we're doing it every single week posting Tuesday full episodes shorts every single day do us a favor check it out like subscribe John the Camiga yeah that's up to that's up to we get a nice 15 to 25 games every single year where we say oh he's putting it together now how those games are dispersed we don't know you might get one game here a three game stretch here maybe you get two weeks you get a nice seven to eight game stretch.

We're putting it all together. However, once his free trial runs out and those 25 games are up, he will go back to being a player that the Golden State Warriors themselves don't want on their team. He would go back to being a player that the words are saying, we will trade you, and he probably wants to be traded. His dream on his wall, the poster that he has, is Michael Porter, Jr. He said, I want to go to Brooklyn. I want to take 20 shots tonight.

I want to get buckets. That is what he wants to do. allow him to be that because right now he has not shown the willingness or the overall effectiveness or ability to be one of the what seven best eight best power forwards in the hell though he's far from that exactly we're trying to get starting minutes for for comminga on on every single team i don't think that would happen all right jaron jackson junior last year he had a breakout season in which he had his best volume scoring year this year he has gotten no flack because John Morant has been the biggest source of criticism in the NBA,

he has also been pretty dog shit for his standards. I think he's C-Tare. Yeah, it's probably C-T-T-R. So C-T-R is quite reactionary. Does he have any argument to still be B? I think I'll put him at B. But so far with what's been going on this season, if we're holding him to the standard in which we usually do in terms of your DPOY,

your All-Star and all that, you should be the best per on this team currently. You're not, you're not, like, your impact is clearly so skewed and you're obviously like a flawed player I think he'll probably he should spiritually he might be a C he might be he spiritually

spiritually you're mid yeah you might be a C he's he's playing yeah he is playing like like C I think last year last year he took a step forward and we saw the offense and this year he saw Jal

was playing around and he was like oh we're on that I bet like I'm not so I think I think it's fair to say right now he is C guys you have just 2.2 turn turnovers and 1.9 assist. Put this motherfucker in C. He's dropped five points for game. The shot blocking isn't what it once was.

And he has a negative assist to turnover ratio. Put this guy in C. Yeah. I'm tired of him as far as all starts. He should be B though. And him at his best is true. Oh, last year he was B or flirting with A. Yeah. Which it makes it even more disappointing what we've seen from this year. Pascal Seaccombe. The perfect B. He's going to say S to. Nah, nah. Did you see that a game winner though? He's the perfect B.

Yeah, he's B. Yep. Awesome number two option next to Tyreys Halliburton does so many things well, makes them go at the level they went last year, probably doesn't have as much juice as the guys in A tier, whether it be defensively with Scotty and Mowbly or even offensively, I think John Johnson is a little more in the tank right now. Yeah, I agree.

With the guys in A tier, obviously you can look at these guys and be like, okay, positionally you are the best in the league at some random thing on the court, some random skill set. And Seacombs just don't have that. It's just a talent gap at this point. Also, he's pretty close. He could be the worst in A if we wanted to, but this is what he goes before.

It's slightly worse. We'll put somebody in B, but... Maybe he could be A. Well, last year, we would have said A when the team is whole and you get the version of him as like the elite second option. So Paceous fans, you could argue A and I wouldn't feel mad about it. Yes, but if we're saying that Jalen Johnson, if Jalen Johnson is the worst player in A, the way that he's been playing, I don't think Pascal has been on that for this year. So I think it's, it's okay if we keep him in B.

Okay. Larry Marketing. Also, B. I think he's, he's great. He's awesome, but it's also been a while. And this is obviously unfair to him because he got traded there. But it's been a while since I've seen Laurie play some meaningful basketball. He's never played meaningful basketball at the end of his life, right?

And he's never really been, like, asked to do so. He's having a crazy shot making season, 28 points per game right now, which is down a little bit. It was 30 at some point. Yeah, but I'm okay with him and B. He's the best score on here outside of Janus, I think. But the worst defender of the top five we have here and brings little to nothing as a playmaker. So Jalen Johnson might be overall a better offensive player.

And defensively, it might be a wash. So B-Tiers are probably okay. Yeah, I feel like B-Tier's perfect. Yeah, he can put up numbers clearly as a number one option on a mediocre team like that. Yeah. But he probably is best used on those smaller usage without such crazy numbers on a good team.

So. Yeah. Very flawed player, but we've seen him at his absolute best and it's a little hard he's doing. He's just showing all the good parts of his game. Yeah. Aaron Gordon. I mean, he was playing himself like 80.

He's just one of the best shooters in the world now. Two years in a row, it's just stamped. Is he A tier? Be A tier, man. What are we doing? It's tough because he is such a, like, elite role player. He's not viewed as a star. But, like, is he better than Jamal Murray?

Low key. Like, it's conversation. He's as good as you can be as, like, the role player. Yeah. To not be an A tier. like he he also he can be on any team and do the things that he's doing who's more impactful to winning jalen johnson or erin gordon it's erin gordon hands down then he's got to be a tier

is erin gordon very pastis yaccom that that's why that's how it feels weird because i feel like pascoe can do a lot of the same things yeah erin gordon just helps win games in an alarming degree erin gordon is shooting the way that he is shooting right now it wouldn't be crazy if you said that a lot of teams like again, the power for position defense matters a lot. So a lot of teams would probably rather have him than Larry Marketing. For sure. I think they're in the same, too. I think he belongs

in B tier. Jalen Johnson throw me off. I think Aaron Gordon is just as good as Jalen Johnson. I don't know. He's not, so. It seems you gotta move Jalen down. It's points for game bias and like on ball scoring bias. Jalen Johnson does more like star stuff like that, you know? But the defense of Aaron Gordon is insane, the offball, the ability

to scale down and still be useful. Like, I feel like if we're being like trying to be educated fans feel like Aaron Gordon and Jalen Johnson are comparable I don't know I feel like well yes like your statement might like probably is true

I view Aaron Gordon just as important at least in like a championship team building aspect like you're an integral part and you're very much and there's a lot of times you can look like the second worst case scenario third best player on the team and I can say the same thing about Seaccom and also Larry Markin

meanwhile with these conversations that we have with Scotty Barnes of Mobley and Jalen Johnson These are just like, oh, you're getting ready to be, like, potentially the guy on a shape. That's the thing. Are we doing too much too fast with Jalen Johnson making that differentiation? I mean, no, he's, he's shown it for the last few years. So I don't get too fast. Okay, fine, Aaron Gordon-Dy.

Okay. So something about that feels reactionary to me. Whoa, whoa, wait. I thought we were all on the same page putting him in A. If I had, if I had a 41 and 41 team right now and I had $30 million and I had to fill out my power forward, I obviously outside of Scotty and Evan Moby I'm giving Aaron Gordon my money

over the other three guys Hmm I don't know Are we doing a little bit too much Cause like I don't know Yokis is there And he just

Yes He can shoot now Is the crazy part Like if we were doing If we were doing this a couple years ago He's also a amazing defender We can go away Yeah

When he was shooting like 29% for 3 Then it's like okay That's a little crazy Now that he's up to 40 He made like seven three ten threes in the game he scored 50 that's ridiculous

it's hard because like liar marketing average is 28 and like the points for game bias like he's such a bucket but yeah I'd probably rather him yeah he's a cone it's not a cone but he's not Aaron Gordon I'm driving by him he's not like cone but yeah he's not when I slow down and get him on my hip I'm getting that layup on it's Jemong Green in 2025

probably B tier uh you still play his stuff here you just call it you just call it beat here and call it yeah call it yeah his game is just so simple bro, call it. Tobias Harris.

D. Call it. Ruri Hachemora. F. Call it. What? John Collins. Let's call it.

Don't put them on this. F, call it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's just right. Call it. Rui's an incredible shot maker.

He's spotted three-point ability and ability to take exactly one dribble. in a very slow fashion, get to a mid-range bucket and shoot over people like it's 2005. Fantastic at that.

He would thrive on 1995 Duke or something like that. Today, very flat player brings nothing defensively, nothing on the boards, should be a six-man, shouldn't be starting

for an elite team. Tobias Harris. Just a guy. Solid vet, doing your job. The fact that Zion has plummeted his stock to being a Tobias Harris

conversation. Dude, why is, Tobias should be probably F, right? to be better than like Rui and John Collins I would rather have I'd rather have Rui on May team than Tobias I think I don't know if I believe that

I'd rather have Tobias over Camino I don't get a fucking conversation I think they're the same guy damn near so I mean do you want to put John to see yeah I think I think no I think Zon deserves his own tier He's a standout job too death I don't care Yeah Julius Randall

Where does he fall in this three tiers Of All Stars C Stop that I think Julie's Randall is as good as Lowry and Siakum. He's been playing great. He held the fort down when Anthony Edwards was hurt. His shot making has been good for several years now. His playmaking has been pretty impactful the last two years next to Anthony Edwards.

He's not the worst defender in the world. Bring some strength and switchability. Switched out really well against Abilucah last year when he was fat. Did a good job in the playoffs switching on to him, defending him one-on-one. I'm going to beat. Could be beat. Sure. Yeah, I agree with you.

I think he's just as good as Lowry and Seacom. Okay. No gripes. Yeah, it's so weird because he's like very different. And obviously it has this think of like previous seasons when he was really flawed. But this is two years in a run now that I think he's been pretty much entirely impactful offensively with no real drawbacks. Okay. I'm fine with that.

Palo Bancaro. This is the hardest conversation I have right now. Now, start in the season, that's not good. That wasn't good hoops. I would say right now, his PR with the way that the Magic I've played with the way that he started the season, it's honestly, maybe not an all-time load, but it's down. Yeah, he should be a tier firmly with on the same timing as Scotty Barnes and Jones,

and even above these guys really, he should be top of a tier. But the things that we've all been clamoring for, there would be just throwing your, get into your game and your spots a little bit quicker and all that, the actual percentages of his. shots, shots that's actually being taken and also made as much to be desired. He's an average ass to vendor.

Right? Sure. He's a, as far as number one options go, I'd say average playmaker. He has his strengths there, has his weaknesses. Overall, and that's out to, as a lead creator, average playmaking rate. Two very important things he's average at.

Either shoot officially from mid-range, shoot efficiently from three, or play defense. You gotta do one of those really well. Right now he doesn't do anything. him really well. Until then, I can't say he's as good as Evan Mowgli. So you want to go B or C? I think right now he's B. C's crazy.

I'm not going to have one. I think right now he's probably playing B. You listed three three things that he has to do and you say he doesn't do anything of him well. So that's why I thought C. I think right. So then I look at like Draymond and Julius. I'm like, he's better than those guys. So he's like by far the best player in B, but he's too flawed to be impactful enough to be in A, I think.

I think he's B. Yeah. But then I look at Aaron Gordon. I'm like, is that true? Am I doing too much? I think we did too much with Aaron Gordon personally. I'm constantly in a state of trying to... I'm, like, gasolid into thinking Palo Bancares as a superstar, so I constantly feel like a hater by saying he doesn't provide superstar value right now, but also acknowledging he can and, like,

presumably will make that leap at some point and will obviously be a tier, but he's not that yet. I don't know what to do with that. My biases are fighting against me. I need him to get back in the lineup, Palo. Let's score 50. And everything is all good. Everything's okay.

As long as you can have, you know, a 50-point game, anybody's getting 54 games. Payne person just had 42. You can get 47. I think we could put him in B. I would, what would be super disappointed is if he came back and all the shots are getting mucked up again,

Desmond Bain isn't in this right spots. I'm not, actually I'm being a little bit unfair because it's more so overcoaching thing. But if his individual performance, aka if he's still like not necessarily a at least average men range shooter or finish or anything of that, anything of that nature, then you're very much being... Dan, what does he do well?

He does finish well at the room. He's an amazing free-throw drawer. Yes, exactly. And that's where the list ends. Everything else, he creates advantages from the mid-range, like, decently with that volume, that it's not like... It nets out as an average score and, like, average lead offensive creator, I think. But, like, individual or micro-skills doesn't do a whole lot super well.

Like, at a star level. He's really just, like, really big. He's kind of like a size merchant. He's gigantic. That's what he does work. Yeah, it's just hard to stop. Yeah, he's a load. That's it as well

He throws his body around real well B tier He should be A Yeah he should be But he's not that right now He's not that He probably will get there And we're recording this

Until the playoffs roll around He starts scoring 30 again But right now it hasn't been there Thursday December 4th We're recording this He's been injured for a little while He's gonna come back at some point By the time the season ends

If you're watching this in January He can and should be A But as of today It feels like B plus Yeah I agree Or A minus maybe whatever The differentiation is like He is a P is a P

of the guys in A. He's just not performing at the level. Yeah. Like when it comes to talking about the power forwards you should pretty much run the decade, it's him alongside Scotty, Evan Mowgli, and Jalen Johnson.

He should be at the front of that conversation. I feel so gross just being like, yeah, Jalen Johnson's a tear ahead of Palibank. Dude, it's so crazy. I don't even know if it's true, but I guess we're going to let you glaze.

Aaron Gordon's right there. We can just put him down and let this conversation rest. Low key. I feel like A tier is really Scotty and Mowley and then Jalen Johnson and Aaron Gordon can be B2. tear and I move everybody down.

Whoa, just leave it at the latter half. So we're going to leave here. You know what I would do? I would put him and D, all these guys in C, and then these two guys in B. That's probably more adequate because I feel like Scotty and Mowby are a tier ahead of Jalen and Aaron Gordon. What has Evan Moby done this season alone to be ahead of Jalen Johnson? Defense.

Not much. Well, nah, that's half of the ball. He's amazing at it. Jalen Johnson is not? He's not a... He won DPOY last year. He did. He did win DPOY.

John Johnson is also averaging like 21. I mean, he wasn't like 9 and 7. What's what he's doing? 21, 9 and 7. He's also averaging 21. Like that's the same as GPUI. Yeah, 21, 9 and 7, man. That's it?

Seven? Where did this come from? Last year you said? Seven. He's averaging over seven assist. Oh, right now. Yeah. Okay, I thought you're saying last year.

Oh, only 21 points? It's going to be 22 soon. With no defense. Play's a little bit of defense. I hear an air. All right, that is our tier list. I don't feel good about that one. That one's tough.

That one's tough. this is a hard position to gauge right now with the way guys are playing yeah yeah