The Delta Flyers - Ashes to Ashes

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hi, everybody. I'm William Chattner. Call me Bill. I'm on Delta Flyers just to say hello. Delta Flyers is a wonderful podcast, and the guys are really good on it. I've got a new book out there called Boldly Go, and it's getting great notices and doing very well. So I suggest you read it, buy it first, and then read it. So keep tuning in, and so will I. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager. Your two hosts along this journey are my fellow Voyager actor who also, in 1992, played the

Starting point is 00:00:52 role of Bill Caswell in not one, not two, not three, but four episodes of Homeward. Home front. Home front. Did I say that weird? You did? No, you said home front. Okay, fine. That's what it's called.

Starting point is 00:01:06 Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil and myself, your favorite for ever, Vincent, Garrett Wong, and you can get the full version of this podcast by signing up to become a patron at patreon. At patreon. Forward slash the Delta Flyers. Homefront came off weird. It went home front or something. Yeah, but you got it out. I got it out.

Starting point is 00:01:22 You fought through it. I did. I did. Talk to me about Homefront. Front. Four episodes. So this is an integral, yet a whole four episode. character arc. That's a big deal. I thought it was more than that.

Starting point is 00:01:32 Oh, so maybe more. Okay. Maybe more. It was quite a few. I, um, yeah, Homefront was a show about all the veterans returning from World War II. It was a period. Oh, period piece. Kyle Chandler got his big, I think it was kind of his big break. He may have done something right before that, but Homefront was kind of his main thing. Yeah, I had auditioned for Homefront. I feel like I was in New York City for some reason. Okay. I think I was still living in New York. I'd auditioned for it. I had gone in a few times. And when I went to the network audition, which is the final audition, you go for, I had gone in for a series regular. Sorry, I didn't make that clear. Right. I'd gone in for the pilot. And I was feeling really good. And the showrunners kind of told me, like, yeah, this is your job. Like,

Starting point is 00:02:21 we want you to do this show. Oh. And I went to network, and I didn't get it. Oh, that's And someone who's become a good friend of mine, David Newsom, got it. Yeah. But I was like, oh, I can't believe this. I felt like it was a slam dunk. I was feeling so good about this. Yeah. And then the showrunners called me afterwards, and they said, you know, if this goes to

Starting point is 00:02:42 series, we loved what you did. We want you on the show. We're going to write something for you. So it did go to series. They wrote this part. And it was a classic story. It was a very common thing that happened after World War II. Some men would come home.

Starting point is 00:02:57 and they were desperate for housing and just they were kind of lost. And so they would lie about things. Oh. And so my character lied about being best friends with one of the girls, one in series regular girls, her boyfriend, her fiancé who had been killed in World War II. And I came back and I said, oh, are you so and so-and-so? Yeah, I'm so-and-so's best friends. I got all the sympathy.

Starting point is 00:03:22 And then I sort of, they realized that everything I was saying was a lie. So it was a big, it was a story arc over, yeah, at least four episodes. Wow. It was fun. And I can't believe they wrote the role for me. And I want to say, this happened again. The same showrunners did a show called Second Chances, I think. It was Jennifer Lopez's very first acting job.

Starting point is 00:03:46 Wow. And I remember being in the test at CBS. With her? And she was in the hallway and she was freaking out. And I remember going, I'll run lines with you. Like it's. Yeah. Because it was at a time where I was feeling kind of cocky about things.

Starting point is 00:03:58 Sure. Like, yeah, I've done this. Let me help you out, you little novice, you, Jennifer Lopez. She ended up getting the show. I didn't. Same showrunners, but they wrote a role for me again. So they brought me on the show. I did a few episodes of Second Chances, but then the Northridge earthquake hit.

Starting point is 00:04:16 And our stages out in Santa Clarita collapsed. All the sets were destroyed. Oh, my God. So they canceled the show. Second Chances didn't get a second chance after the collapse. of the set. Did you have scenes with J-Lo when you did come in? No, I never do. I'm just wondering if she saw you and went, hey, thanks for calming me down in the hallway.

Starting point is 00:04:34 Like, did you ever bump into her again? No, I remember when I came on the show, and it was deeper into that first season. I came on like episode six or seven or something. I've been doing it for a while. Right. I remember I was out at a location where J-Lo was supposed to be filming a scene that day. Okay. And there was a lot of talk about they would have to reschedule because she got the movie

Starting point is 00:04:54 Selina. Oh, right. Same time. And so she was like, she exploded. Like she's doing this series for CBS. Yeah. That was short-lived, but she was doing that. And then she got Selena and I remember thinking, wow, that really nervous girl in

Starting point is 00:05:12 the hallway is doing okay for herself. Yeah. It worked out for her. Sure did. Yeah. Jenny from the block. So Bill Caswell, was he Army, Navy, Navy, Marines Air Force? Okay.

Starting point is 00:05:24 Army as far as I remember. And you were an American GI, right? You played American, came back, and you just had this web of lies that you had created to sort of, wow. Okay. That was my first show. I think it was my first show at Warner Brothers on the lot. And I love that lot.

Starting point is 00:05:43 It's a great lot. And then you ended up working there as a producer, director of Chuck. Yeah. Yeah. Warner Brothers is a great lot. I agree. I agree. I agree.

Starting point is 00:05:51 Anyway. All right. Okay, so this week's episode is Ashes to Ashes, Ashes to Ashes. Say that a thousand times fast. Thank you. You're welcome. All right, so let's go watch this. We'll be right back. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. Well, Robbie and I are back from watching Ashes to Ashes. And guess what? We have us. special guests with us. So please give a very warm welcome or bienvenu or

Starting point is 00:06:27 Wilkomen in German to Kim Rhodes, who plays Lindsay Ballard, the main guest star of this episode. Yay. Lindsay Ballard and Jettla. Jettlaia. Jettlaia. Yes. Laya. Excuse me. Yes. I forgot the other name. She's like multiple personalities in this episode. Yes. I was. I got to, I got to morph. It's now on my special skills and abilities. It's morphing. Good. I morphed on the show, too. I morphed into a salamander.

Starting point is 00:06:56 Not this episode, but earlier. So, yeah, another episode. Well, in the history of Delta Flyers, we basically had only two people join us for the entirety or most of the podcast. Yeah, usually is just, Garrett, it's you and me. Yes, Brian Markinson. Yes. Who played Durst.

Starting point is 00:07:13 Yes. And Brian Fuller, one of the writers on the show. And now, Kim. Kim is the third. Am I right? I'm the third. I'm the first non-Brien. Yes. Exactly. Up until now, you've had to be named Brian to co-host with us, but we've decided to open it up to non-Briens. Thanks. Yeah. Three times the charm. The third time is the right time. Here we go. All right. So let's start with our poetry synopsis of this episode. And here is my haiku. My haiku for Ashes to Ashes. Can't wait. Lindsay comes back home.

Starting point is 00:07:51 Harry makes his feelings known. In the end, alone. Wow. You added rhymes to that, too. There's like a kind of, normally the haiku does not have a rhyming quality. And this was just by chance, the first two verses rhymes. And then it's very, because this episode is very sad for me to watch this episode, the outcome at the very ending because

Starting point is 00:08:18 I laughed the whole time I was just hysterical you see why I love Robbie um Kim Robbie's such a goofball no one knows that about him well they know about that about him now but back of the day no one knew that about him so

Starting point is 00:08:33 all right let's let's start it up some a nice Irish limerick synopsis of this episode here we go my limerick poetry synopsis for ashes to ashes goes something like this yes There once was a crewman, Lindsay Ballard. When she died into space, she was scattered. She returned looking strange.

Starting point is 00:08:54 Harry's love was unchanged, but her new life was what really mattered. Oh, yeah. You know, the limerick has that. There once was a girl from the ducket. Yeah, I've never done that on a limerick. That's the first time you've done that. I got to be the girl. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:14 You did. There once was a crewman, Lindsay Ballard. Yeah, we went classic limerick on this. We did. We did. There you go. I think that's all we have to say about the Zemmo. We're done. I think the poetry kind of covers it. So, all right. Robbie starts off with guest stars, their first jobs. And also, we did not guess the director correctly. It's Terry Wendell, neither of us directed. No, I never guessed. No, we did not guess that correctly. Terry Wendell was the director.

Starting point is 00:09:44 I did get the writer correctly, which I'm super shocked. I'm super shocked, too. I'm a little suspicious that you cheated on that one. Because Bob Doherty wrote not that many episodes. No, but here's the thing. Yes, it is suspicious, but he is a writer that I like his writing, his earliest episodes that he wrote, I thought were amazing. And I'll be perfectly frank with you, this is not my favorite of the things he's written.

Starting point is 00:10:10 I'm going to say that now. I'm going to be dreadfully honest, if I'm, if I might, so that's all. All right, and then go ahead. Bob Doherty wrote the teleplay. Story was by Ronald Wilkerson, who I don't know. And we don't know of Ronald either. Must have been, again, an outside pitch.

Starting point is 00:10:27 Star Trek was really good at listening to outside writers and taking story pitches. That's right. So Ronald Wilkerson probably pitched this. Okay, our guest stars, I'm going to start with the people that have been on the show before. So we've got Marley McLean, who played Mazadi. We've talked about her before, a little girl, ex-Borg. She was wonderful. Scarlet Palmer's, we've talked about before Naomi.

Starting point is 00:10:50 We had Manu as Icheb again. Kurt and Cody Wetherill as Azon and Rebbe. So we've talked about them before. Right. We didn't talk about Kevin Lowe. We've never met him before. No. Kevin Lowe, who plays Korette, your alien father.

Starting point is 00:11:08 So his first job that I could find for Kevin Lowe was the horror film from 1980 entitled Mother's Day. He played Ted. That was his first job. 1980. Oh, Ted. Yes, he played Ted from Mother's Day. He probably got killed because it's a horror film.

Starting point is 00:11:27 Everybody gets killed. I'm going to say, did anyone, when he first came on screen, my first thought was, wait a minute. Is that Robert Loja? You know, the after that, you know, with the makeup on. Yeah, the guy that plays the boss. and big. That's my main attachment to Robert Lozier. He did look like him a little. I thought he was

Starting point is 00:11:48 great. I thought Kevin was really good. He was very sympathetic. He really wanted his daughter back. And I cared for his character. Go ahead. Let's finally, our final guest star is the lovely Kim Rhodes. Yes. Who plays Jet Laia and Lindsay Ballard, the girl who was a crewman. There once was a crewman, Lindsay Bellar. Anyway, Kim Rhodes, Kim, Kim, I think your first credit that I could find was from 1996, you did the soap opera Another World. Is that true? That is correct. Yes. Wow. Yes. You and I have soap operas in our background because I did all my children from 1985 to 80. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good, it's a good foundation. It really has a done stage for a decade before that. And boy, you sure learn to make big decisions quickly on a soap opera. You don't have six weeks to rehearse it.

Starting point is 00:12:42 Oh, gosh, no. Right. That was my first job. And it was interesting because it was a multi-cam. And I don't know if you go into the details of different venues, styles on this podcast. But I didn't do a single camera until Star Trek. That's one of the points on the email that I received. This was her first single camera show.

Starting point is 00:13:05 So everything she'd done before that was a multi-cam, soap opera, sitcom, whatever. But never one-hour drama episodic. Like with a single camera. She'd never done that. So Voyager was our very first. We will talk about that in our bonus material. We'll get more into this in the bonus. Yes, we will.

Starting point is 00:13:21 Okay. We start with an exterior space shot of a ship being fired upon. And I just want to say, Kimberly Rhodes, the reaction shot that you do when you get hit, there is one shot of you, was spot on. A lot of guest stars, when they get hit or shake on the ship, they look really bad. But you somehow, I don't know if you had dance background or whatever, but it was very, It was like, ooh, you move forward very well. So I'm going to get that right now.

Starting point is 00:13:45 I think it was actually staged combat. And I remember when the, when the later on, Kate Mulgrew even said, she laughed. She was like, how do you look like you're being hit and you're still dancing? And I'm like, your center of gravity is being moved. That's funny. Oh, my gosh. We see a shuttle flying by in space. We see a ship chasing it, which by the way, looked like a cling on bird of prey to me.

Starting point is 00:14:09 It did. It had a similar shape to it. It had the wing shape. They do like, they did look cool, though. I think the Kabbali ships, they were, yeah, much, there's certain alien ships we've seen that really don't look that cool, and these look cool. I think Lindsay Ballard Shuttle looked a little, like they stole some Delta Flyers. You think so?

Starting point is 00:14:28 I think so. They stole a little delta flyer shape. A little bit of that. Yeah, probably the same designer, so there you go. I was very busy. I didn't have time to design alien shuttles, too. But yeah, she's talking to the computer. See, I thought it was someone else she was talking to.

Starting point is 00:14:46 I first thought she was talking to the other ship chasing her or help from another ship. But then in reality, it's the computer, correct? That you're talking to? It's your Kabali computer. But the most important thing here is she's speaking in an alien language, which we never do. So rare.

Starting point is 00:15:04 And I loved it. I wish we always did that with aliens when they're in their own environment. I hate when aliens start talking to each other in English when none of us are around. There's no universal translator. There's no reason they would be speaking English. And we do it all the time.

Starting point is 00:15:21 But this time you were speaking Kabbali. I loved it. I thought that was super cool. It was cool. And was that something that you had some type of linguists that was there to help you with that? Or no, they just, not at all. No.

Starting point is 00:15:32 In the script, they were just like, here you go. And I did it again. I was like a, you know, I was like a puppy class. a tree. Nobody told me it was hard. So I was just like, all right, off I go. But I think in this case, it was so important to establish what ultimately represents home for who she is. Right? So she needed, I think it was a correct artistic choice to establish how alien she truly was at the top. So when she veers back, spoiler alert, she, you see that it is a culture. It is a part of her.

Starting point is 00:16:15 Yeah. And I'm going to say you did an excellent job in convincing anyone's watching that scene that you are a fluent speaker of Kabali because right off the bat, I think you say, Tamvit, Tamvit, Tami al, and it's just like there was no hesitation. There wasn't like, oh, I'm not too sure about this. It came out perfectly. So good job on that one. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:36 I've done entire roles where I had to speak a language that I didn't speak. So I was like, just go. Yeah, you did it. It was great. So this alien, who we don't know her name yet, Kim Rhodes, is playing this role. This alien targets a, looks like a weak part of the ship. She seems to know where the weak part of the ship is. She hits this ship that's chasing her, disables this ship.

Starting point is 00:17:01 And then she calls up. the Voyager schematic somehow in her language. And we're like, what? Yeah. Voyager comes up. And then she hails Voyager. I was so confused here. And now she's speaking English.

Starting point is 00:17:19 Yes. She's speaking English. And I was like, what is happening? I don't understand. We go to astrometrics. We see Mazadi, little Mazadi just wandering around in astrametrics. I didn't even know it was astrometrics yet because it was, it was a tight shot of her by some consoles.

Starting point is 00:17:36 So I was like, where is she? What is she doing? Yeah. But she walks by a monitor and the incoming transmission pops up. Mm-hmm. And so like kids do, she hits the button and she responds and starts talking to this alien who was just speaking. Yeah. English.

Starting point is 00:17:54 Ballard. Bellard says that she sounds a bit young to be working the con. Mazadhi affirms by telling her that she's only eight years old. Yeah. So, you know, Jedliah says, hey. grown-ups around there. Mazadi tells her that she's an Arcadian and that she wants to ask what species Ballard is. And Ballard said that's a complicated question.

Starting point is 00:18:13 And so that's foreshadowing right there. So we know this is something's up. Something is up. But you're right, Robbie. The minute she went from the alien language into perfect English hailing Voyager, everyone watching must have been like, what the, huh? You know, just a great beginning. I love this.

Starting point is 00:18:29 Great beginning. The alien says, she says, well, that's a complicated answer. asked for a grown-up again, says, patch me through to January. So Mazadi, she's small. She's got to reach up really high to get the button to patch it through. And she accidentally hits another button. With her other hand. With her other hand, ends the transmission.

Starting point is 00:18:46 Whoopsy. And then Tuvok enters. Yeah. Tuvok walks in and now I start to realize it's astrometrics. He says, you're not authorized to be in here. He says, I won't tell on you. I'm not going to tell the captain, but just don't come in here again. And then suddenly seven and all the board kids.

Starting point is 00:19:03 pop in. Let's say, let's say it's, it's, it's an annoyed seven, not just seven, a very, very annoyed seven. She says, I told you to wait in the cargo bay. And Echab, Hechab is even like, we told her, we told her to stay here and she wouldn't listen. Oh, yeah. Echab is slowly becoming, you know, the teacher's pet, I think. Yeah. So, yeah. Okay. But Tuvok asked seven why she left the kids unattended and seven says, well, Bala Tora's needed my help, and I was only gone for less than 10 minutes, and I told them to stay there. But what was weird here is they're talking in this big wide shot. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:43 And then they go to have a private conversation. Yes. They walk away to talk. They walk away. But the sound got, it was like, instead of actually going lower, going whispering, it went higher. But they, like the sound engineers did something. I was like, why are they trying to pretend like they're having a secret. why did they turn the volume down i don't understand yeah so they missed that it was weird it was

Starting point is 00:20:07 uh tuvok suggests meditation and just as he's trying to go into detail that's when seven glimpses little mazadi tinkering with the console so she in a very stern voice calls out her name and mazadhi quickly turns around and says no no i'm just trying to talk to the the woman and everyone's confused too what woman translating from spatial grid two three six nine that woman so then tuvok hails that Kabbali shuttle, Lindsay responds or Jet Liar responds and she says, Tuvok, right? And now we're like, what? Everyone's watching going on. And she knows Tuvok. How's this possible? But she has to speak to Captain Janeway. That's her goal and her mission right now. You have any comments about when you had to do the intercom with the little

Starting point is 00:20:51 girl or anything like that? Do you have any memories of that? I didn't know who she was before I did that scene because, of course, I'm doing my part of the scene. yes they're all separate in a cardboard box yes and um and she's just so charming she is i'm so glad that i made the choice to not make my character be an insistent asshole yeah because that really like it it she's so dear that that i that it seemed to work well with lindsay's character of like i have a life or death situation but oh yeah oh sweetie yeah yeah yeah I need to talk to somebody that's not you right but the way you said the way you acted that day when you said you know I need to talk to one of the grownups was definitely a really

Starting point is 00:21:42 a nice delivery which worked perfectly you know because you could have been annoyed like look you know just let me talk to one of the grownups and it and again that would not have come off as well as the way you you chose your acting choice was on was right I think yeah yeah it cut together like you were really talking to each other even though I know you probably were hearing the script supervisor read the lines. Cosmo Genovese probably was reading it. So we had a 72-year-old Italian-American man reading that for you, the role of an eight-year-old is what it was. All right. So we go to the bridge next. And now we see Jet Liya on the view screen. She's talking to Janeway. She says, oh, you're a sight for sore eyes, Captain. And then she looks over and you too,

Starting point is 00:22:24 Harry. And we cut over to Harry. And I was like, all. First of all. Yes. I know you're shocked, but I hated my acting in my reaction shot there when I watched that. I'm like, what am I doing? I look annoyed. I do not look confused and shocked like I should have been. I looked annoyed and I really do think I got to fight with my girlfriend. I got no, I got in a fight with my girlfriend the night before. I'm almost 1,000 percent guaranteed. That was an argument that continued to the next day. It was. Whenever I'm not. Go let it go, Gary. I know, but I didn't. I didn't hate your reaction. Okay, fine. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Starting point is 00:23:01 But also, okay, you don't know the end of the, Harry didn't know the end of the script. No. There's a bald alien who's like, I'm happy to see you, Harry. You don't know it's me. No. So I think your response was absolutely like. Okay, fine. Okay, all right.

Starting point is 00:23:25 But did either of you make note of when you see Jit Lai, on the view screen, she's posed in a, it's almost like a glamour shot. I mean, I've never seen anyone. It's usually they're in the cockpit and a very straight up in their, but you had almost, there was an angle to your body and just, it was that weird angle and it was a weird angle and it was a, that chair that was in that shuttle was recycled from some other set. And it was place it. Okay.

Starting point is 00:23:51 But it's, it didn't look like a comfortable chair. Yeah. It looked like it was, it was leaned way back and right. And, but it wasn't about, but I'm not criticizing it. I actually liked it. It was very, I was very, it looked very artistic to me. I thought, oh, she's kind of posed in a certain way. And also the background was very, you know, I liked it.

Starting point is 00:24:09 I liked the composition. And to me, it just, it, you know, it's something that stood out. I don't know if I, here's what stood out to me. Here's my big takeaway. Yeah. This whole scene, I don't know how many times Janeway looked at Harry, cut over to Harry. I was like, what, what is going on with this alien? Because you're right.

Starting point is 00:24:28 Yeah. Kim, I didn't know. I didn't remember this episode. Right. So I was like, what is happening? Yeah, there's a funny, funny look from Harry there when she says, you too, Harry. And then Janeway thinks that this is a joke. Like, this isn't a funny joke.

Starting point is 00:24:42 Jet Liah says she was Ensign Lindsay Ballard before she died. Right. And then Jet Liya goes into all these details of when she died. And she says, I died in this sector. And Janeway looks to Harry again. And I was like, what is the backstory to this? made no sense to me because I didn't remember this episode. Then she requests to come aboard.

Starting point is 00:25:04 She says, I'll explain everything. I'll go into all the details. But she has enough information on the view screen. And the captain's like, okay, I'll be me to sick bay. Yeah. And she orders them to bemer to sickbay. And then Chikote comes over. Right.

Starting point is 00:25:17 Says, what are you thinking? I had a, I had a J.C. moment here. I had a little Janeway Chiquet, ship for love. That's like Chucote's checking in. Captain, are you okay? What are you thinking? He's very sensitive to Janeway, always sensitive to Janeway. And she says, well, she does have intimate knowledge of this ship and its crew.

Starting point is 00:25:38 Another look to Harry. I was like, how many times are we going to look to Harry in an episode that I don't even know what's going on? But we keep looking over to Harry. And Harry wants to come with a captain. He says that they were very close. And if it's her, I will know. Yes. So she says, okay.

Starting point is 00:25:54 So now you know Harry and this Lindsay Ballard who passed away are tight. they're tight but no yeah and later we learned they're so tight they knew each other back at starfleet i think academy right i mean that's and this is this is one thing just to insert here because i'll bring this up again i'm sure yeah because our show was written so episodically there was not a lot of kim they didn't connect stories yes things would happen and then we'd forget about yeah and because they wrote the show that way this episode was hard for me to engage early on because because I was like, why hasn't Harry ever mentioned this person? Yes.

Starting point is 00:26:33 Why has no one? Right. Like, why wouldn't Tom have heard about this? Why wasn't there a scene where, you know what I mean? Yeah, of course, you're going to be critical, but you've already accepted the fact that this is the way the show was shot. They did this all the time. They did it all the time that we were supposedly very tight with and close with for a long time,

Starting point is 00:26:51 or we knew this ensign or we knew this lieutenant. And then all of a sudden, we'd never see them. We don't hear about them afterwards. Never hear about anything before. So this is, yeah, so this is one thing that. that Robbie will, you know, point out and he's annoyed by at times, but I will, yes, I will say. I didn't like that, that episodic kind of, where if something happens in an episode, we've got to keep that information in mind the next time they're faced with a similar situation or

Starting point is 00:27:18 whenever there's a situation where that previous information would come up, they just never connected it. That's what made it hard for me early on to kind of go, oh, I'm all in. on this because i just felt like oh they've they've just manufactured this backstory out of thin air there's absolutely no setup for this and you know at all but anyway all right that's my insert i've worked for a long time on another show that um that taught me the importance of canon right like you manufacture a situation to justify a character's emotional arc well now you've created an emotional reality you don't get to jettison the experience that got them into this reality like you need them here for storyline reasons but you don't get to jettison the the journey

Starting point is 00:28:12 that put them in this situation otherwise you lose what you've earned in the first place yeah um and and i think it is and and a lot of that also just from my ancient experience is the evolution of of storytelling in this kind of arena where it's like, well, we're used to just dead body of the week, cop sees who did it, there's the bad guy, close it. But in something like Star Trek, where you're, it's actually emotionally influenced and pushed, I think they probably were learning that like, you can't just be like, oh yeah, I was in love with this person for five years in my life and then they died and then just

Starting point is 00:28:56 fuck off with that. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think that they wrote Star Trek still on our show in a more old-fashioned way in that sort of episodic, you know,

Starting point is 00:29:09 yeah, body of the week kind of thing. And so for me, that's what was a barrier for me in this episode. I'll just say that. Sometimes I struggled to go all in. All right. So just to recap,

Starting point is 00:29:23 yes, you were correct. She does talk about her death on the view screen, but only the time of death, not the actual details of the death. No, she goes much more into detail. In sick bay, right? So we're in sick bay. She knows enough that it gets the captain to do you.

Starting point is 00:29:36 To trust her, of course. So we're in sick bay, and the doctor is scanning Lindsay behind a level 10 force field. She retells in detail the story of her death, which basically revolves around a Herogen hunting party, which has set this trap where a device emits the, I guess, whatever the, lithium readings false dilythium readings yeah exactly so my question to you lindsay is did the producers

Starting point is 00:30:03 ever show you any episodes with the horogen involved because you talk about that's how your death happened at the hands of the horogen so you never the horogen are cool yeah these are like seven foot tall aliens that are in armor and they basically they live for the hunters and so yeah they're They travel in groups of maybe one or two at most, and they just, they hunt prey as that's their whole thing. Yeah, I had no idea that they were even a thing. I was just making up images in my head. Well, you did a good job because it sounded like you knew with who they were. Oh, good. Yay. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:30:39 You faked it till you made it. So it's good. It was perfect. I liked it. I also like a little detail where she was hit by this neural disruptor. And she said, Harry said it wasn't that bad, but he was always a bad lie, a terrible liar. Right. So you start to see that she's known him long enough that she knew him well and in that moment knew that he was lying. And Harry confirms that that that's true, that her story is true. And he says that he buried Ballard in space. That that he ejected her body into space and gave her space burial. And then she continues with the story. She says she woke up in a stasis chamber surrounded by lots of these aliens. And they basically. reanimated her. Yeah. And they tell her what happened that she was drifting for weeks. And they they reanimated her by changing her DNA into kind of theirs. And that's how they procreate. They don't procreate between themselves. They reanimate bodies and change their DNA. So they're

Starting point is 00:31:40 kind of like Videans in a way. But you know what I'm saying in terms of the Vidians recycle other people's parts and things. They're recycling that someone else's. But Vidians are horrible. And these guys seem like they're kind of really sweet more admirable yeah no they're they're like yes they're like the better they're better than the vidians are yeah i agree yeah i agree but the cabali say she was drifting for weeks and they did this and then she says uh that she wanted to contact voyager but the cabali said that this was part of her kenshtika her kensdika is her past so she's still sort of speaking some kubali here which i thought was again i love it that they put this stuff in into this episode. We don't normally do that. They tell her she needs to forget her past, her Kinstyka,

Starting point is 00:32:26 everyone that was in her past. And another look to Harry. There's a lot of looks to Harry in this episode. There is. So much looking at Harry. I want to say that today, this day that we filmed this, I did not have a fight with my girlfriend the night before. And I actually showed up and acted in this scene, I feel. So I'm proud of myself. Good for you. Yeah, for shutting that out. Yeah. Yeah, because there's a definite moment. There's just not fighting. You're a lover, not a fighter. No, but you do see some strong, you do see some strong connection there, though, with Harry. Like, Harry's starting to feel some emotion here in this scene, I feel. He's starting to believe it. All this is make, her story is making sense. And she says she accepted her new life for a couple of year, two years. And after she had

Starting point is 00:33:14 built their trust the whole time she was Shuttle. She was planning an escape. She stole a shuttle. And she's been searching for six months for Voyager at this point. I just imagine Lindsay Ballard with the song, I'm working my way back to you. Yeah, it's just all you, that's what you're hearing as you're flying that shuttle back was. That would have been like the Guardians of the Galaxy version of this. Yes.

Starting point is 00:33:38 That would have been the Marvel. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. All right. Let's go remix this episode. We should remix it.

Starting point is 00:33:47 It'll be a vintage pop music. It'd be great. Kim, what did you think of the end? What did you think of that ending hug? Did you? I did. I felt a little tentative to me because of makeup. It felt like you were being careful because of her makeup.

Starting point is 00:34:04 I agree. But it actually worked because he had to be tentative because, wait a minute, is this really, really, really her? You know, I think she still has a little doubt or he's a little concerned, you know, And maybe that worked into it, but I trust that. And that's what I saw. I think a lot of times in storytelling, the character, like, the actions and the emotions are exactly the same timeline. And I notice as a human being, my actions will jump and my emotions will be like, oh, really?

Starting point is 00:34:38 Okay, I guess. I mean, or the other way around where emotions are like, yes. And my body's like, maybe not quite yet. Yes. So I think it's a really interesting visual to have the body say one thing and the emotion be like, not too sure, yeah. It means too much to be able to just be like,

Starting point is 00:35:01 yeah, I'm gonna swallow this hole. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. Well, it's important to say in this sick base scene that the captain does ultimately believe her. They let the force field down. So she's, she, the captain literally says, welcome home, gives her a nice warm handshake. And that's when Harry's left alone for a minute. In fact, he asks, can I have a minute alone?

Starting point is 00:35:24 And that's when the hug happens. That's when the hug happens. Yeah. So there you go. Do you like Terry Windell's direction of this episode so far as up to this point? Or were you kind of, I don't know, what do you think? I'll be honest and say it was uninspiring to me. Okay.

Starting point is 00:35:38 It was pretty flat. Okay. It was pretty flat. i think the thing that carried yeah from a directing standpoint okay the thing that carried this episode was the performances yes and the story that's the strength of it but i don't think that the direction added value yes or amplified the subtext or anything in this episode it was pretty pedestrian so thank god if i'm being on rose i'll say thank god thank god yes thank god for your energy was that was that a lead into one of the other things that i wrote you um that we'll share in the after story

Starting point is 00:36:08 Sure, we'll share that in the after story. We'll share that. I love after. After parties are so much fun. After party is good. After party's going to be great. Okay, so we have a space flyby, a Voyager, and then we go to the briefing room. Yes.

Starting point is 00:36:24 And everybody's in the briefing room. There's Tuvok. There's Harry, Chacote. Neelix is there. Belana. Anyway, no Paris. Was Paris in there? Yeah, you.

Starting point is 00:36:36 Oh, no. No. No. Why weren't you there? Yeah, this is my best buddy, Harry. I don't know. Why wouldn't you should be there because this is a big deal. Because he would know about the love of Harry's life.

Starting point is 00:36:47 Again, where's the canon for any of this? Fine, fine. Anyway, everybody's there except for Paris. Captain says, we want to welcome back this fine officer says lovely things about Lindsay Ballard. Neelix says he and Tom had retrieved her personal items from storage. You weren't there, but you were mentioned. Yeah. See?

Starting point is 00:37:07 Yeah, okay. Torah says that her old shift is ready and waiting for her whenever she's ready. In engineering, she's an engineering. An engineer. But you definitely should have been there because Bilanah's your gal. So you would know everything about Bala's life. I know. Chikote says the Kabali are still out there.

Starting point is 00:37:29 Tuvok says he's adapted our systems and we can counter any attack from these Kabali meanies. Lindsay says, thank you, Captain, for saying all those nice things. Yeah, that's after the meeting breaks up. So the meeting breaks up. Everyone sort of leaves, and it's just Janeway and Ballard together. And that's when she says, thank you for saying those nice things. And then Ballard says, well, you know, to be honest, I never thought you even noticed me. Janeway says, my mistake.

Starting point is 00:37:57 So, you know, we have a little more backstory. I never saw Lindsay Bellarmineership before either. So I apologize, Kim. I don't, I didn't notice you. absolutely right. And it is difficult. I'm going to say as an actor to play in an episode where the other actor is supposedly the love of your life that you know so well and you just meet them on Monday of the first day of shooting. It really is. Because we didn't meet Kim before we filmed, right? We didn't have any rehearsals or anything like that. But then we became very

Starting point is 00:38:33 quick friends off the bat so that's what really helped because you needed help from me right with the cabali eyes in yeah i can't because so i couldn't see they were very hard to see through and garrett never left set without me yeah garret never like i wouldn't see anything and so everybody would just be like all right moving on and it's like and i'm like but i can't and you always you're leg duck moving over here. You never let me a lot. I was your personal handler. I was your valet.

Starting point is 00:39:07 You know, I was there to hold your arm, you to hold my arm to make sure you got to where you got needed to get to. And I, you were her seeing eye dog. I was, that's what I would call you. You were her seeing eye dog. Her seeing eye, her seeing I, Harry,

Starting point is 00:39:23 you were my emotional support person. I was your emotion. Did you have papers and a vest like a little red. little red vest. Okay. And then every time someone came over to try to pet me, Kim would say, no, no, you can't. He's my service animal. I can't have you.

Starting point is 00:39:38 He's working. Yeah, he's working. Please. Show me some respect and give him some room. Yeah. And honestly, when you wrote that to me in that email, I did not remember. And that really jogged my memory. I was like, that's right.

Starting point is 00:39:51 She was, if without me helping her, she would have tripped over or ran and walked into a wall, practically because you had that little tiny slip of vision. I didn't, I did notice, I forget, maybe I made a note later on. I did notice in one of the scenes that the contacts had had moved. And one was looking over here. One was that way. Did you notice that, Kim? Notice it.

Starting point is 00:40:14 I have photos. I signed pictures of it. They pointed the wrong way. No, I love it. I love it. And those were back then. They do this. They're like, hey.

Starting point is 00:40:26 Those were hard contacts that were panned, painted by a contact artist. An artisan, yeah. And they were really uncomfortable. In fact, Ethan Phillips, who played Neelix, he stopped wearing his contacts in like season six or something because it was damaging his eyes. They were, they're really tough. And from what I, and from what I recall, Robbie, they were also not cheap either. No, they weren't. Very expensive. Yeah, by some artists to paint these tiny lenses. All right, where are we right now? We're in the hallway. Harry and Lindsay are walking and talking and she says, hey, are you still playing the clarinet?

Starting point is 00:41:02 And he says, no, I took up the saxophone. I'm super cool now. He doesn't say that, but saxophones are pretty cool. They are cool, and that was my only request that they ever heeded. I asked so many things, suggestions for my character. This was the only thing that they asked. He said, fine, we'll give you the saxophone.

Starting point is 00:41:20 But we do learn here. He says, you were always my biggest fan. She's like, you always were my biggest fan. I said that, right. And then she goes, no, no past tense. I like that right. I like that. The Doherty still can write some good interpersonal relationship dialogue. I like that. Yeah, it was great. They enter a turbo lift. Harry says, deck two. And she says, you know, hearing you play music again was number 26 on my list. I was like, what? Yeah. And she said, oh, something I did to pass the time. I tried to think about what I do when I got back and things she didn't do, she says, which I thought that was an interesting little detail.

Starting point is 00:41:56 Harry makes a joke though he says oh like showing up for shifts on time and she responds yeah ha ha that's number 27 so we learned she's a little bit tardy yeah she's a little bit of a mess sometimes a little bit yeah yeah but he knows her well

Starting point is 00:42:12 that's what I got from that they know each other very well this whole time I kept thinking of Lindsay Ballard as the character in the Ramona book series the little you know yes Well, Ramona, she just, she does her little thing and she's just, you know, she's in her own little world.

Starting point is 00:42:29 She's in her own, no, yeah. I, and I loved Ramona. I loved that character when I was a kid reading those books, and I felt that that's what you. Lindsay would have been a great, I think Lindsay Ballard would have been a great character for us to have had as a recurring character. Oh, my God. I have a story about that. Which we would talk about, what we will talk about that after in the after party. In the after party.

Starting point is 00:42:54 Yes. Hold that information, please. Okay, mess hall. Mess hall's next. We see Neelix is setting up a Coddiscot board with Naomi Wildman. Yeah. And then Seven shows up with the board kids. They walk in and Neelix and Naomi have been waiting for them.

Starting point is 00:43:12 So Neelix says, the seven, maybe we should give them some time alone. She says, no, I'm going to watch them because everything turns to chaos if I'm not here. And Naomi says something about the break. in her hair to Mazadi and Mazadi offers to teach Naomi she's like oh I'll show you how I do it and seven goes no no irrelevant conversation

Starting point is 00:43:34 we've allotted one hour for recreational activities and she gets to her famous line this is the best seven of nine ever yes it's like no irrelevant conversations we're here for recreation fun will now commence

Starting point is 00:43:51 oh my God so well you got Oh, Doherty, you knocked it out of the park in this scene. It was wonderful. So good. Okay, so fun commences. They start playing Cat iscott and Naomi makes a move. Then the twins make a move.

Starting point is 00:44:06 Well, the twins kind of look at each other with the secret mirroring look. They think about it. Yeah. Then they make a move. And he says, I countered your move or something. Yeah. And she's basically, Naomi, she asked, you know, calls Neelix and says they're cheating. And Mazadi reveals that they use their.

Starting point is 00:44:24 neural interface. Their Borg interfaces. Their Borg interfaces to share information. And 7 goes, that's enough. Punishment Protocol 9 alpha. No, but just the way she says it. She goes, you will exercise, punishment protocol, 9 alpha. It's imagining any parent, you know, or any nanny speaking in this Borg speak of

Starting point is 00:44:45 seven of nine. It's so funny. But punishment protocol 9 alpha is stand in a corner. Yeah. That's what it is. It is. It's, you know, she could have. said go to the corner the corner but no it's got to come in long yeah

Starting point is 00:44:59 yeah for everything's complicated so they go stand the corner then each up stands up to seven and he's like you know what this isn't fun and i'm not going to keep doing this if the if they can't rejoin the game and he knocks some caught us got pieces off the table now we've just met these guys last episode you know this is their first time this is you know seven's not doing a great job dealing with the kids. They're out of control. And she says to him that he must exercise punishment protocol 9 alpha as well. And he says, no, I refuse.

Starting point is 00:45:33 And he storms out. He does. Yeah, he does. She's lost them. She's lost them. We go to Ballard's quarters. I feel like, Kim, this was like the first scene that we filmed almost. Was this our first scene?

Starting point is 00:45:48 I do feel like this was the first scene for some reason. When I had the hairbrush. Yes. And I remember this being kind of awkward because we were trying to figure out the blocking, like, where we're going to go? Because there are so much going on in this scene, right? The folding of the clothes, you gathering the clothes and bunching them up and showing that basically we were the modern day odd couple. You know, you're the messy one. I'm the neat, clean one, the neat freak.

Starting point is 00:46:13 The first thing she does is she grabs the skates and she tosses them into the side of the room. She's like, woo! And then she grabs the clothes and bunches them up. It's a funny scene, actually. Yeah, she throws her stuff around and they talk about when they lived across the hall from each other at Starfleet Academy in the dorms. And he says, oh, I remember how sloppy you were. She says, show some respect for the dead.

Starting point is 00:46:38 That was very funny. That's a funny line. He reveals that he delivered her eulogy at her funeral. Yeah. And I was like, did I? Oh, my gosh. I didn't remember that line. Oh, my goodness.

Starting point is 00:46:50 But again, really good writing, I think, by. already here yeah and she wants to know what he said and uh eventually he he says that uh he told everybody about to live by ballard's favorite saying yeah was own the day a cling on saying a clingon saying yeah i like it and she says that she she she wanted to give up at a certain point you know while she was after she had been reanimated but she didn't give up because of him she wanted to see him again yeah she does make a joke about with her bald head now she won't need the hairbrush that was something that actually i do remember fighting for because because at the time he kept wanting me to gesture with this using this and i was like can we at least address the fact

Starting point is 00:47:38 that i'm holding a hairbrush and no hair left you're like oh yeah we should you're right okay okay so that was that was a line that was one of the few things where i didn't i didn't know that as the guest star you aren't supposed to ask for new lines oh so they wrote that in later then yes they wrote that in oh at the day oh my goodness because i kept trying to avoid the hairbrush yeah and they kept saying will you please pick up the hairbrush this is such as this is this is an object of your and i'm like yeah wow like are we at least gonna like it's a weird to me it's weird to be playing with the one prop i no longer need yeah yeah yeah so that's But that line, I seem to remember, came in afterwards.

Starting point is 00:48:21 Well, interesting. I was like, yeah, and that's news to me. And I'm going to say, in one quick scene and in one quick moment, you were able to request more of a line change than I did in seven years. So congratulations to you. Yeah, they didn't grant that at all. At the end of this scene, though, the doctor calls in and he says he's finished analyzing her scans, that she should come to sick bay.

Starting point is 00:48:45 So we go to sick bay next. and the doctor's filling them in, that there's a genetic pathogen in her blood sample that has converted all of her human DNA into a Kabali protein structure. And basically, there's no way he can reverse it. He can't pull the Kabali protein structure out of her, but he can make some cosmetic changes so that at least she looks like what she used to look like. She's going to be Kabali, but on the outside, she's going to look like she used to. By the way, Kim, this is the scene where I noticed the, uh, the contacts looking in different

Starting point is 00:49:21 directions. Yes. Yes. Yes. I didn't see. I did not notice that. No, it was it was tilted to the side. I have, I have a picture of it that yeah, it was tilted to the side. This was also the scene where I learned for the first time that if you go up on your lines and the camera is not on you, you don't have to start the scene at the top. Oh, because in multi-camp, like a soap opera, if anyone messed up, everyone started over. But on this show because we were only filming one actor at a time if you weren't the actor on camera if you were off camera or it was on your back it didn't matter it didn't matter yeah no less there i mean bob and kate were so patient with me until they finally were like sweetie you you don't

Starting point is 00:50:06 don't go back to the top don't start at the top of the scene again just just taking breath and pick up just one line yeah yeah because no because this this is not about you literally not about you cameras on us and we're the stars of the show i'm just i'm just hearing you responding to kate and bob in Seinfeld's voice and saying i'm a single camera newbie i'm a newbie i don't know i have no idea that's funny that's very funny it is funny well uh she does sit down in the biobed after the doc pitches this cosmetic change he gives her a shot and she morphs into so she did her morphing here. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:50 And I didn't like my reaction here either. Sorry. You didn't like your reaction? No, I clearly I got in a fight after it before. It's always a fight. It's always the, it's the home life. It's hard not to bring the home life in. But I love this morph shot.

Starting point is 00:51:06 Do you remember doing this shot? Yeah. Do you remember how it happened? Yeah. Yes. I just did what they told me to do. It was when I was bent forward, right? And so it was just a very physical, and they took a picture, and then we changed makeup and came back on a different day.

Starting point is 00:51:21 That's what I was going to ask. It was a different day. Then you had to match that. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is easier coming from a stage background, because I'm used to a very specific, like, if you're in a fight scene, you need to make sure that you're landing the blow at the same spot. Otherwise, their sword won't be there to parry it, kind of shit. Right.

Starting point is 00:51:44 Excuse me, sorry. And so this just felt the same to me, where it was kind of like, I need to make sure that this, this, this, and this is all matching physically. Otherwise, it won't work. Right. Well, it was cool. We didn't do a lot of these kind of morphie, like VFX morphie shots. It was rare for us to do.

Starting point is 00:52:06 Usually it happened in a cut or something. I did think about you shooting this on different days because when you had the bigger makeup, that's hours of work. and they're not going to sit there while you change to the smaller makeup. So they're going to go film something else and you'll come back tomorrow and pick it up right there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was, it was three and a half.

Starting point is 00:52:24 It was their Emmy nomination that year. Oh, wow. Yeah. It was a great makeup. Three and a half hours. It was so beautiful. Seven layers of airbrushing to get the veins and. Oh, it was gorgeous.

Starting point is 00:52:36 And did you have, was it was the process, the application process, okay for you? Or was there any hiccups at all? Or did you ever feel claustrophobic or anything like, you know? Oh, getting the mask done. Yeah, getting it put on. Oh, yeah. Forming the mask where they put the plaster and everything on you. Yeah, that's a little scary because you're totally covered, right?

Starting point is 00:52:54 I love Scott so much. He stood and held my hand when that stuff was hardening on my face. Wow. And just talked to me. He was like, I'm right here. You're not by yourself. You're good. You're safe.

Starting point is 00:53:05 And yeah. So no, I was supremely taken care of. Yes. On that show. All right. So now we're in the mess. Hall. And Neelix comes up and he hands you one of your favorite dishes when you were human. It was a Jebelian berry salad, which looks strikingly like blueberries and raspberries, but Jebelian, clearly.

Starting point is 00:53:26 And, you know, you say that you're looking forward to this. You've been looking forward to eating this for a very, very long time. And Harry says, well, it was number six on her list, on her little list that she wanted to fulfill. And the minute you taste it, it's just like, you do not have a look of pleasure on your face at all yeah yeah there's a tinny almost a metallic taste when you're eating this harry tries a blueberry and he's like well still tastes like a blueberry so um there's no difference there but we now know you may look and sound like lindsay ballard but the all the inner workings the you know the infrastructure underneath is still kabbali she even says that when she was Kabali, her cuisine consisted of only gray paste. Gray paste.

Starting point is 00:54:16 Yeah. And it's important she says that here because later on we find her eating that gray paste, which looks like oatmeal. Yeah. With some food coloring a little bit. But she does say at the end of the mess hall scene, she doesn't want anything else. She's got to take care of number 16. And she's going to dazzle Lieutenant Torres. Yes. Any comments on this little scene in mess hall when you're eating? Any memories anything you want to say about it i have a tendency as an actor to play the end because usually the end of a character arc is the most emotionally dramatic and so i like to hop to that because there's big feels there um and so this is one where i remember them being like this is not your your dog has been hit by a car sadness right that the bit that it doesn't taste this is just more like that's odd

Starting point is 00:55:05 That's weird. Yeah. And so I remember being like, pull, come back, Kim, come back, come back. Because I wanted to be like, but I can't go home again. And they're like, we still have the entire next half of the show. We can't go there yet. Right. Did you find that Terry Wendell was good with actor direction?

Starting point is 00:55:23 Or do you remember? I know I've commented about just the visuals of the show, what I thought. It was very important to him that he be correct. And I think sometimes that got in the way of, like, I know when it's important for me to be right, it's very hard for me to hear a viewpoint that isn't mine and enter into collaboration. Yeah. Because I lose the concept of us in trying to reaffirm me. And so again, my memory is not great, but I felt like there were times when I was like, But, okay, okay, oh, I'm wrong.

Starting point is 00:56:07 Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. That's a very well-put way of describing my memory of Terry as well. I felt like a lot of times there could be a stubbornness about him. He came from Viz Effects, I think, was his background. And he hadn't directed a lot before. Okay. I don't think this was his first episode. Yeah, I don't think it was either because we've talked about him.

Starting point is 00:56:31 I think our series was his first show outside of Vizifex. Our show. Our show itself was his first, yeah. His first time directing episodic television. And that makes sense, because to me, the mistakes that I make, the choices I make in my life where I have been frightened and unwilling to collaborate are early choices. Like, I would like to think that these are not choices that he would make as a director now. because there would be more ease in general directors that I work with who are very like yeah I don't know what do you think sure let's try that tend to

Starting point is 00:57:12 actually be more confident and have more underneath their belt whereas newer directors are actually much more yes do it my way I know what's right yeah I have a plan yes it has to yes it has to look like the movie in my mind right I already imagine this you're not doing what i thought yeah all right let's go to engineering yes go ahead robbie so we go to engineering there's balana working as she walks over towards the warp core we see lindsay arriving in the background and balana says hey you're one minute early and lindsay says yeah there's a first time for everything so like harry had said clearly she's not a punctual person or a neat person necessarily right but she is now she came in early i noticed here if this is her first time in engineering

Starting point is 00:58:01 why aren't all of the background her coworkers people who thought she was dead nobody looks at her yes nobody looks at her okay is that is that adele's job or jerry flex job the first 80s job it's the director's job to watch the monitor and tell the story and that to me was just like okay how can you have there should have been some recognition the ghost walking into them this is someone yeah anyway that was a big miss for me i know later on they'd like look at her. They do look at her later, which she speaks Kabali. But that's not the thing. It's the fact that she was dead. She was somebody that works in engineering on a regular basis. Anyway, you know what I like the most about the scene? Immediately. Okay. What I like the most about the scene is that Kim chose

Starting point is 00:58:47 to like run to engineering. Like you jogged in. It was the best. It was like, look at that. Like she's so enthusiastic to come to work. I was like, yeah. So the reason. Okay. Okay. Okay. What? All right. So this is a story I'm going to tell now, and I'm not going to say. But it's an indication for if you come to the afterwards, this is the kind of goodiness that you're going to get. All right.

Starting point is 00:59:11 So we were shooting around Christmas, this episode shot during Christmas before and after. And so there was all this extra delicious food and treats and stuff on set. And I was told, so the doors open with a person who like watching me. Will Tom's. That was his name. will as will opens the door that's right doors open and the director specifically said the door's gonna open you need to come in running i want you at top speed because you know that door's going to open and i was like okay uh oh i know where this is going yeah you do

Starting point is 00:59:47 before i was supposed to run at that door they delivered in and out burgers to set and so the gentleman who was supposed to be opening the door was involved in a hamburger and did not open the door. Can you blame him, by the way? You can't blame him. And for those of you who are listening to this or watching this, yes, I just have to say and clarify that it's a regional burger. Not every part of the country gets that.

Starting point is 01:00:16 And definitely not every part of the world. So those are worldwide viewers. Special burgers. In and out, it's a special, special, you know, burger from the west side of the West. Yeah. So, like, he wasn't, he wasn't just randomly distracted. He was distracted with something very distracting, but I ran smack into the door.

Starting point is 01:00:35 Bambo. And so after they made sure my makeup was all still on, they were like, you have to, but that's what you need to do. So I was like, I will not let my, because Will was so devastated. He was so apologetic. And so the reason I ran into that set was specifically to show Will that I still trusted him. Wow. That is the only, there was no character motivation. I love it.

Starting point is 01:01:02 There was just like, I loved him so much. And I want to just be like, yes, Will, I believe you. I will give you a second chance with my nose. Will's a great guy, super nice guy. And I'm sure he was crestfallen when he realized that he was savoring that burger and he didn't pull it open for you. So, yeah. Okay. Well, he didn't think I was going to be running.

Starting point is 01:01:24 No, no. All right. Robbie continue. Bologna says that they've had some kind of alignment error with the dilithium matrix and they can't figure it out. And she says, oh, it's a Victiote is, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right. Yes, Vicktiote, the crumpled waves. She said, well, she says it's a Victiote and Bologna goes, what? And she goes, oh, a Kabali word to describe a certain wave phenomenon.

Starting point is 01:01:50 It's really hard to translate. And Belauna goes, well, try me. so she goes it literally means a crumpled dance yeah that was very funny crumpled dance wave waveform um and then she says a bunch of other alien cabali words while she's working well she starts speaking cabalish which is half english half cabali in this whole sentence right there yeah it's wonderful it's really good and this is where the crew turns around they hear the cabali they turn around they just kind of stare at her i made a note finally somebody's looking at her she's dead like thank god am i right to say this on our ship isn't our universal translator always

Starting point is 01:02:30 working within the ship so when she's speaking cabali it should have come out it should have come out english yeah they should have heard english we would have heard english but anyway good catch i didn't even catch that i was so happy that there's alien speaking alien that i was just like yay and i'm not criticizing it i'm happy to hear the cabali as well and the way that kim spoke it so well so that's That's fine for us. But she fixes this alignment error, and Tora said, well, there might be a few crumpled dances in the warp core, too, which was very funny. A little bonding moment there.

Starting point is 01:03:02 Yeah. And so she goes to work and she's happy and everybody's smiling and life seems good. Any thoughts on Roxanne Dawson working with her in that scene? I love Roxanne. And I got to work with Roxanne again at another date that I would fill you about later. Yes, we'll talk about that later too. We go to astrometrics next. Seven is in there.

Starting point is 01:03:23 Chacote walks in. He hands off some tactical reports from Tuvok. And he starts to leave. She says, wait a minute. I just want to say, I want to resign as the guardian of the board children. She's had enough. Their behavior is chaotic. Her attempts to discipline them result in even more disorder.

Starting point is 01:03:43 And I love Robert's attitude here. He's like kind of laughing at her. Children in disorder usually go together, seven. And then she says, look, I've tried to organize this. And she shows him, she pulls up a chart in astrometrics. And it's this like Excel spreadsheet. Okay. Of the Borg's schedule.

Starting point is 01:04:00 And this schedule is so detailed. I love Seven's her Excel spreadsheet on the, in the astromatrix. It was great. And Chikote says, well, it doesn't look like there's any time in that spreadsheet for fun. Yeah. And he says, fun sometimes just needs to be spontaneous. You can't plan it. And he ultimately says, you can't.

Starting point is 01:04:19 got to let them be individuals. That's the whole point of this. Yeah. She asks him one more time to grant her request to quit. And he says, permission denied. So she's stuck with this job with kids. And then we go to the hallway and Tom and Harry are walking. I noticed in the scene. My horrible walk. Well, you know why? Because they had time. I don't know what I was doing. I was bobbing. I was like, I was doing the same thing. I was, I was fast talking and walking weirdly. And I don't know if you remember in the hallways, they would always, you know, choreograph us to run into each other at one intersection and we had to stop at the next. So you had to get the dialogue out to fit the set, basically. And we were trying to get the dialogue out to fit the set.

Starting point is 01:05:07 And by the way, when I say we, I mostly mean me because your answers were like, uh-huh, yeah. And I was going blah-la-la-la-da-b not totally. I had to, I had to like land that. That's why I was walking like weird and fast and I was talking fast. My cadence and my lines. So you're critical of your own performance right now and you're blocking. I know why it was. It was because we had to finish it.

Starting point is 01:05:32 We had to squeeze it all in. I get it. Squeeze it all in. So we stop on this one line. Yeah. And they just didn't give us enough room. No. But anyway.

Starting point is 01:05:40 Yeah. So we're walking and talking like weirdos. And you've got some hockey skates. I do. And he's. on his way, Harry's on his way to ask Ballard to go ice skating with him on the holodeck. And then Paris has some stuff about all the women that he's dated.

Starting point is 01:05:57 First, it was this woman, that woman. Now it's the dearly departed. A hologram aboard the wrong twin. And now the dearly departed, yes. Got to get all those out. And Kim is like, no, no, no. We're just friends. We're just like before.

Starting point is 01:06:09 There's nothing going on here. Until. Until. Exactly. Yeah. And then Paris says, well, that door may be creaking open. again. You thought you closed it, but I think it's opening up. When you said that line, it seemed like you were angry at me.

Starting point is 01:06:23 I was angry at having to squeeze all that dialogue in to hit the mark. That's what I was angry about. That's what it was. Yes. So true. All right. And it's funny, the last show I directed recently, I had a hallway scene with the actors. And I remember I had had in my mind, they're going to come in.

Starting point is 01:06:42 They're going to land here. Same thing, right? Right. But it became crystal clear to me after the first rehearsal. I'm like, I can't ask the actors to do that. They'll never get it. They're going to be talking a blah, blah, blah. So I literally sent him off to the really far entrance.

Starting point is 01:06:58 I said, start over there and where you end, you end. And it was so easy. I don't know why we couldn't have done this episode so that we didn't have to walk weird. This is where we go into sick bay. Harry enters. And I got to make a note on the score here. I loved the score, the musical score as you came in during the scene. It was one of those moments that was.

Starting point is 01:07:18 and cinematic, and I just, I felt like it was unusual for us to have this kind of rom-com cinema score. It was really well done. So whoever wrote the score for this, I loved it. But Harry walks in, she turns around, now she's got red hair. And it's her full human appearance, no more three hours in the chair for Kim. She looks like herself. Except, was that a wig or was that your hair? No, that was me. Oh, I didn't know. Did they, so your hair was already that color when you booked the job and they just said that okay oh so you didn't dye it for the job then okay i got you all right she does she does say uh that she's got her full human appearance but she changed her hair to red uh so she must yeah more more more more more exciting color and then the

Starting point is 01:08:07 doctor comments on well hair is one of my specialties despite evidence to the contrary love that line with bald Robert Picardo. Yeah. I didn't even, I didn't not even pick up on that until you just said that. Oh, it was great. It was,

Starting point is 01:08:22 I love that they write in the jokes. Yeah, for the bald guy. The bald guy is one of my specialties. Yes. I love it. I think she says something like, yes,

Starting point is 01:08:31 under this hair is still my six lobe brain of a cabali. So caballies have big brains, six lobes. Man, imagine all the computations your brain could make. Six lobes. Six lobes under there.

Starting point is 01:08:43 He invites her to go skating. Baller says she already has a date. Yeah. And Harry's kind of jealous. He's like, he's like, who? What? He's jealous. Who?

Starting point is 01:08:54 She says the captain. He says, what? I've been on the ship for six years. I've never been invited to the captain quarter for dinner. It's just like me. I've been on the show for six years. They've never changed a line for me is what I basically should have said. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:09:08 But she's been invited and Harry's a little jealous. But off she goes. We're in the captain's. quarters. Yeah. And the first note I have here is Janeway's replicating a pot roast. How do you burn a pot roast in a replicator? Well, exactly. A replicator replicates it perfectly. There's no way you can burn the pot roast. I mean, I get the joke that the captain can't make anything but coffee. I get the joke, but yeah, she should have, I don't know. It's it felt forced. Well, here's one of the parts that I didn't like in the teleplay, you know, when I was thinking like, why is this happening right

Starting point is 01:09:40 here. It's very forced. And then it's very forced that she already has a whole display of Wonderbread already ready to go. Those nice containers from bed and back that the bread's in. And we're going to make peanut butter and jelly sandwiches instead. But Janeway says, Tuvok presented her with 37 ways to repel a potential Kabali attack. And Ballard says, does that include your pot roast? Which is funny. Very funny. Yeah. But Ballard kind of jumps back. She's like, she catches herself. She said, wait a minute. like it's almost as if her Kobali personality is now coming out you know maybe she's more biting in that culture than she is on as a human this was my first scene with kate mulgrew right um

Starting point is 01:10:21 and it was also a beautiful lesson in single camera like specifics um that i so she was very she really we there was a thing that happened before the scene i'll tell you about later yeah but um but to me this scene was really archetypal because this is the first time a red shirt got to come back and be like that's true i'm the red shirt and i am now here and so the biting was actually lindsay being like okay time out yeah i got killed because i'm faceless let's talk about that and um and it really for me not not being i wouldn't classify myself as a am of Star Trek simply because I have too much respect for what that word means but I really love it I enjoy it I am familiar with it and for me stepping into this scene it felt

Starting point is 01:11:23 like every red shirt that got unceremoniously don't yeah finally got a voice and got to come back and be like well that's the that's the heart of the scene is she says why'd you pick me yeah Why did you pick me to go? That's the heart of the scene. Right. So many more people were qualified for this mission. And I'm the least qualified of it. Yet you picked me.

Starting point is 01:11:48 And that ultimately ended up being my demise in a way, right? And at that point when I'm watching it, I'm like, where is this going? Where is this scene going? You know, is she going to flip out on the captain for that? But no, she's like, and Jane We even says, do you blame me? Why didn't you send Torres? Why didn't you send Tuvok or, you know, is it because you're closer to them? Right.

Starting point is 01:12:07 You did, that's right. You like them. Closer to, yeah. You didn't know me, so I was disposable. Yeah. And Jamie even says, do you blame me for your death? And Ballet says, no, I don't. That's not exactly it.

Starting point is 01:12:19 And then she has this quote, never harbor anger to those who brought you death, for they gave you a chance to live again. We realize that's a Kabbali philosophy, say. Oh, is it? I don't know. Voting Kabbaly. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 01:12:33 All right. Yep. And she says, in letting me die. Yeah, you gave me life. She's starting to get confused here about where she belongs. It's emotional for her, and she's, I shouldn't have come, she says, and she leaves emotionally. Yes. She leaves abruptly.

Starting point is 01:12:51 And then we go into a hallway, which is kind of weird, because it's a dream sequence. Right, right there, right? Isn't that what that is? Well, we don't know that yet. Oh, yes. It is the dream sequence, but we don't know that yet. Yes. Because she's just left the captain's quarters, and suddenly we're in this heavily filtered

Starting point is 01:13:07 hallway scene where she then walks into the mess hall and she's basically attending her own funeral and at this point it becomes clear this is some dream or dreamlike sequence because the captain's saying you're late and balana says you weren't supposed to come back harry asks our beloved friend and crew member does that sound right you know and she says for what for your eulogy so this is not a realistic scene and the heavy filter definitely tells us this is a fantasy or a nightmare or a nightmare something and the cabali have six lobes so they have a lot of nightmares yes six nightmares every nightmares every night and it's one for each load overwhelming it really is yes but then she looks back and all the crew is basically saying you don't belong here

Starting point is 01:13:54 get out of here and then there's a cabali man standing in the back and he says jet liar and as we push in on his face where he says jett lia well he says some kabali first right so Then he says, yeah, he says something. And then she wakes up. Yeah. And so we realized it was a nightmare. It was a bad dream. And then we go to Harry's quarters.

Starting point is 01:14:20 Harry's sleeping and ding dong, we hear the doorbell. He says, come in, she comes in, sits right down on his bed. So clearly they're friends and I like my bed head. That bad hair looked good. Yeah, I was really impressive. I always like, hey, that's a pretty good bedhead look. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:38 Basically, he tries to cheer her up. There's a little flirting going on here. I felt in the dialogue. She ultimately says, why have you always been so nice to me? And then Harry goes, you really don't have any idea, do you? And this is where I was going,

Starting point is 01:14:56 okay, didn't he have a girlfriend there? Like, this is where the backstory got confusing. Okay. Yeah. But here in this scene, I didn't know that it went this way. I did not know when he says like, you know, which is why I'd very much like to kiss you now. And then Lindsay says, oh, in the day, even before she said, on the day, I thought she was going to repel Harry at this point.

Starting point is 01:15:18 I was thought, you know, like, hey, you're in the friend zone. I did not remember that we actually shared the kiss. We actually. Not just a kiss. Well, yeah, yeah, of course, it's implied that we had more than that, of course. But you know, that's what's confusing. I'm your first single camera lover. I did not know that.

Starting point is 01:15:35 Oh. Um, yeah, she says on the day. They go into a kiss. Yeah. And then we'll come back to this in a minute. Okay. We go to the mess hall. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:15:45 Uh, board kids are sculpting in the mess hall. Yeah. Which seems like the perfect place to be sculpting clay and making a big mess in the mess hall. The mess hall. And seven arrives to inspect their work. Yeah. And the twins have created a board cubes. And then Echab has created a 26-sided polyhedron, uh, comprised of hexagons,

Starting point is 01:16:06 octagons and squares and then we get to Mizodi and she's got this sculpture of like a head or face and turns it around it's a sculpture of seven and I thought it was really good

Starting point is 01:16:22 it was a great sculpture Seven says she doesn't see the resemblance she reminds Mazadi that they were instructed to create a geometric shape this is not a geometric shape Eichip says we told her she wouldn't comply.

Starting point is 01:16:38 Echap is a tattletale. Echib goes, she deviated from your instructions. Aren't you going to implement a punishment protocol? So he is a big tattletail. He's a big tattletail. He's been a tattletal in every scene. In this episode,

Starting point is 01:16:51 he was not like that before. So all of a sudden, he's little tattletail slash teacher's pet in a way. Agreed. Agreed. But instead of punishment, Seven says this work demonstrates ingenuity and individuality. And Echb is shocked.

Starting point is 01:17:06 shocked. Yes. It was like resume your disorder, which is a funny line too if you think about that. Very funny. Yeah. But this is from her talk with Chikote. That's why she's softened up a little bit. She's softening up. Yeah. We go back to Harry's quarters. Now this is my question. Is it implied that they did it?

Starting point is 01:17:23 Yes. They're both dressed exactly the same. Like, why isn't his shirt off? Why isn't like clothes on the floor? Maybe some people like to put their clothes back on after Nookie. I don't know. To me, if that's the story, it was unclear. Wow.

Starting point is 01:17:38 Okay. It was unclear and it was shifted because originally the scene took place with both of them in bed and it was changed on the day. Oh. Poor choice.

Starting point is 01:17:50 Poor choice. Wow. Because it doesn't tell the story that they, if they were both in bed and she was sitting up because I made that note. I'm like, why is she sitting on the floor? Okay, no.

Starting point is 01:18:00 I know all right. My note said they had Nookie and then she sat on the floor because she was, she has these conflicted emotions about being Kabbali. So that sitting on the floor was the artistic way of displaying that she's still torn between two cultures. Sure. But if it's important that they did it, which I think it is important to be clear about that. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:23 Then the value of having the exact same clothes and the exact same way and the hair are the same. This is also network television too, right? This is 90s television. They're not going to show a naked person sitting on the floor. Yeah, but if she had gone from her t-shirt or whatever, she was in to a robe, she had his robe, where she had his shirt on or something. She was wearing that sweater when he was going to go ice skating. She was wearing that. You're with me on this.

Starting point is 01:18:46 You're with me on this. I am 100% with you. And I remember the, it was purposely ambiguous. I got it. Okay. Interesting. It was. And I agree.

Starting point is 01:18:59 I think it was a mistake because what I am, I am completely myopic. when I look at scripts. I would make an awful director because I only see things from my perspective. And what I see with Jetlaya, with Lindsay Ballard, is a gradually increasing desperation to grab her old life. Yes.

Starting point is 01:19:23 So she starts with the job and it's like, oh, no, that doesn't, you know, food, no, that doesn't. So her stakes are increasing more and more and more. And so this has to be the last, like the biggest. She's gone as far as she possibly could go to diving back into the old life, the old possibility, like she said, things I wanted to do and things I never did. And this is something she never did before. And even that doesn't.

Starting point is 01:19:55 So I agree with you. I think it should have been crystal clear. And it wasn't whether or not they. This life is not hers anymore. Even if she goes as far into it as possible, which is consummating the relationship that she believes could be her lifelong love, still is not hers. So I think I agree. I think it is, for my perspective, I chose to believe that it was absolutely consummated because that drove the character into what she had to do next. It's a much stronger choice.

Starting point is 01:20:31 They should have showed us. They should have shown it. They should have showed it. Definitely. But it's interesting that scene when you come back and you're sitting on the side of the bed, there's only two lines. Kim just says, Lindsay, and you're like, they're coming. And that was so reminiscent of poltergeist with a little girl going, they're here, kind of a thing.

Starting point is 01:20:49 It was a little, you know, a little. She should have been watching TV then. She should. Okay. With the all the plugs. You're right. Anyway, we go. So we go to, they're coming.

Starting point is 01:21:01 She says, we go to space. We see a ship approaching. the cling on bird of prey replica coming in and then we go to the bridge Janeway immediately says red alert yeah evoc says we're being hailed and on screen is correct yeah yeah that the guy from ballard's dream he says he's there to retrieve jet lia his daughter yeah yeah Robert loggia i want to call her jet lindsay or how about lynn's lia lynn's lia or jet lindsay i would Jet Lindsay. Jet Lindsay. I like that. Okay. Jet Lindsay. He's come, Corret has come for Jet Lindsay.

Starting point is 01:21:37 Yep. And Janeway says Ballard's made her intentions clear of not returning to Kabbali. Brett said he wants to speak to her. Well, first he says she's my daughter. Then he says, I want to speak to her. So now we know this is this is someone who's really close to her. We didn't know that before that in the dream sequence or the nightmare sequence. Exactly. We go to the hallway and Lindsay and Harry are walking and talking. Harry's trying to convince her. Yeah, he says, you don't have to go see him. You don't have to talk to him.

Starting point is 01:22:07 And she says she wants to, time to stop running from all of this. And so we go to the briefing room. Corrette says, thank you, Captain. And the captain says, well, this meeting is going to be over when Jet Lindsay says it's over. And then she walks in, and Corrette is, he's shocked by her human appearance. He insists her name is not Lindsay. She's shocked and angry. It's like, what did they do to you?

Starting point is 01:22:33 And he reminds her that they abandoned her. They shot her body out into space. They abandoned her. Very sad. Kim gets very emotional in this. Yeah, Kim gets very emotional. They start arguing about funeral rights and human customs of burial and things that he just doesn't understand. And he brings up in the scene, Corrette brings up that with most Kabali, that their memory is completely lost after reanimated.

Starting point is 01:23:01 Yeah. It's a rare case when they remember. Yeah, a rare case. Some of them will retain some of their memories. Yeah. He says to Lindsay that she died three years ago. Lindsay died three years ago. Yeah. That Jet Liah is a different person. You're a different person now. And he loves her. You know, you're my daughter. He's really quite convincing here. And he does say that, yeah, maybe this is familiar, but you don't belong. This isn't where you belong. And then he brings up her sister. I know very sad That got me And he says Your sister misses you What do you want me to tell her? Yeah Oh

Starting point is 01:23:37 Yeah There's a zinger for you This line was like A little amuse-boosh And I made a seven-course meal Out of it This line Good for you

Starting point is 01:23:49 Tell her that her sister is dead Yeah you looked around At everybody in the room It was nice It was really nice Of what is she going to do What is she going to say yeah has this because it was very convincing to me as an audience member the plea from dad

Starting point is 01:24:04 but it didn't work at this point she says tell her her sister's dead she leaves and then korett says to janeway that he's not going to give up no that she's just confused and he's not going to give up and he doesn't want to fight jane way yeah and he does mention here he says to us to cabali every life is precious to our people and he says i'll be back with reinforcements yep we know where this is heading we do we do we do we do we do we We're going to have a ship battle. It's going to happen. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:32 Let's jump to the mess hall. Kim finds Ballard sitting there eating the great paste that she so affectionately talked about earlier. And it is Kobali cuisine at its finest. And now Kim is trying to suggest how about number 32 on her list, make Tuvok laugh. And he talks about the Hala program, the Temple of Tapanit, which is a Vulcan prayer program. And Harry suggests doing some funny business, making the monks recite Ferengi Limericks instead. So funny, they're using Limericks here. I know.

Starting point is 01:25:08 That's our poetry. Yeah. And also, I felt that this is sort of Tom rubbing off on Harry because Tom. Playing around with the holodeck. Yeah, Tom messed around with the holodeck, made Harry kiss a cow instead of the gal in the holodeck, right? So maybe this is a little bit of Tom rubbing off. But Ballard is really a thousand. miles away, a thousand light years away, she's thinking about Corret. And she says to Harry,

Starting point is 01:25:34 she can't stop thinking about Corret at this point. And Kim is, Harry's trying his best to try to convince her, like, you know, this is, you know, this isn't really your father. How can he even call you that? I bet you're, I bet, I say Professor Ballard would have something to say about that. And this, this was really, really telling at this point, because Ballard has no memory of her real father of her human father when she was a human and now you you start seeing wow this really isn't the right fit i've made a very poor choice poor choice yeah jet jett lindsay um is in trouble this is not she's in above her above her head for sure yeah yeah but she does say okay i'll go be the holodeck and they stand up to leave and that's when she doubles over yeah in pain yeah table

Starting point is 01:26:24 and we see that uh it's not food poisoning from the great pace no it's the doctor's uh cosmetic changes aren't right holding up no and then we go to sick bay and the doctor scanning her and uh harry says why why is this suddenly happening the doctor says the cabali pathogen has adapted and now she's going to require treatments twice a day she wants to keep keep the human appearance well it's interesting because the reaction was you know definitely like that's too much and then i started to thinking about everyone that has to do, you know, insulin shots all the time. It's like, well, there's people that live like that already. So it's not that much of a stretch to.

Starting point is 01:27:08 But she was saying, how am I going to do my job? How can I do anything if I have to always be in sick bay? And then she gets really angry and shouts at the doctor and Harry and Kabali, knocks his tool away. Yeah. And then she just bolts from the room. She's very upset about what's happening. Jet Lindsay is good at bolting from rooms. She bolted from the captain's room, bolted from sickbay. Any notes on sick pay? The sick bay seen it all when you had no. Just again, the the the speaking a language that wasn't English, but speaking it with intention as opposed to just emotion, right, knowing what I was saying. And you guys were so patient and kind to me. Yeah. As I stumbled my way through that like brain and emotions having to

Starting point is 01:27:55 mesh up. It was very difficult. So I'm really grateful for how patient you guys were with me. It came off great. It really did. Whenever you spoke the language, I believed you, 100%. I did. Thank you. Yep. So we go into the shuttle bay. Harry comes in to find Jet Lindsay in her in her shuttle. Yeah. This is the shuttle that she that she's lived in for six months while she was trying to find Voyager. And I just noticed that this is where I noticed that seat was recycled from another episode another i was like oh that's that seat i feel like i sat in that seat at some point oh from alice is the same seat from alice maybe maybe you know dirtyed up and stuff yeah uh but anyway harry says to her you know you need to stop these treatments yeah which which

Starting point is 01:28:44 shows some progress harry's like look i don't care if you look human or or cabali or whatever i i'm in love with you who you are so that's that's some progress for harry he's he's Yeah, he's being, he's adjusting. He's changing it up a little bit. Yeah, but she says, no, I can't do it. I just, I realize they don't fit in here. Yeah. Harry tries. He's like, well, you don't fit in. What about Tuvac and Neelix? They're aliens. They don't fit in, right? Is that what you're saying? And that argument doesn't work either. Everything he tries is not going to convince Jet Lindsay to stay. It's so sad. Yeah. And she says at first, she thought Voyager changed, but she realized that it's her that changed. And she feels like a goat. if she tries to deny who she really is now. She says the girl that Kim that Harry fell in love with who died three years ago. Died three years ago. That still makes me so sad.

Starting point is 01:29:37 It is sad. It's a sad scene. Very sad. A sad rom-com. Sad rom-com. As soon as they're getting emotional, big bang, we cut out to space and now there are three ships, Kabali ships attacking Voyager, go to the bridge.

Starting point is 01:29:53 Tuvok says shields are down to 48, percent. Lindsay and Harry run in the turbo lift. There's another big hit. And this is where you fell into the rail. And I bet this is where Janeway said, what Kate said, how do you look like you're dancing? Because I noticed it too. It was a great shake. It was graceful too. It just, she just fell in. I was, I was very impressed. I applaud. Kim, I actually applauded the screen when I was watching. I was like, good fall. Okay. but uh lindsay says to the captain surrender surrender me to the attacking ships i don't belong in voyager anymore kim says don't listen to her she's not well no she doesn't know what she's saying but ballard

Starting point is 01:30:36 assures janeway that she knows what she's saying and harry says we could fire a pull her on burst we could take these guys out he even says i'll go do it myself and he starts to starts to exit and Chacote says stand down Dan down and Kim doesn't want to take her and Kim says I don't want to lose you and Ballard says you already did

Starting point is 01:30:57 but at least this time we've been given the chance to say goodbye which is sad we know we know it's going to happen we have a space shot and a captain's log says star date 53679.4

Starting point is 01:31:12 the doctor has stopped Ensign Ballard's treatments and her Kabali physiology is already beginning to reassert itself all but one of us have said our goodbyes and then we go to the transporter room and there's harry at the controls uh lindsay is back to her jet lie a look she's cabali harry speaks some cabali yeah harry says some cabali very very sweet almost yeah he says i i taught myself a few cabali words it's all very sweet and sensitive yeah and she says well that was a sweet

Starting point is 01:31:45 gesture but you just told me the comets are tiresome so i thought that was funny he regrets she didn't finish everything on her list and she says i took care of what really mattered and they have a last kiss yeah and then a beam out and a sad harry at the end yeah do you remember that kiss at all i do you do oh yeah totally i remember that entire scene all right because they had because it was one of the few scenes where I wasn't required for rehearsal. Oh, okay. So everything was all set up. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:21 And before you and I did our part, they did the transporter part. And I was like, oh, two big things in the same scene. And so they just called me in. They were like, okay, pictures up. And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And I mean, I understand so much about myself now, but I was like,

Starting point is 01:32:38 I'm so sorry, I just need a second. And they were like, what? And I said, I love that. transporter. I love the transporter. And I was like, okay. Okay. I got to. Okay. Okay. And somebody was like, you'd be surprised how many people actually have to do that. That's okay. We get it. It's true. It's pretty. I'm transported. And I get to kiss Harry Kim. All of it. All of it. Oh my God. That's awesome. And it is. It's impressive. The transporter set is, and that's where you, yeah, you were happy. Okay. Wow. That's a little track there. Yeah. So she beams out. And,

Starting point is 01:33:13 we have sad harry and then we have a space flyby of the ship i actually like the space flyby we saw from behind voyager there was some real cool detail in the lighting the the parts of the ship that were lit up it's just i always love when there's like a different angle or something slightly different i agree i agree yeah so that was a good look for the ship definitely now we're in the mess hall for the very final final scene it's harry and mazotti and harry's holding the hairbrush that ballard used to use and Mazadi basically comments that it's pretty and Harry says it used to belong to a friend of mine. I don't know why Harry didn't say this was Jet Lindsay's.

Starting point is 01:33:50 I don't know because Mazadi knows who Jet Lindsay is. Harry says, would you like it? And Mazadi does accept the gift, basically. Well, Mazadi says Seven's now letting the board kids go play on the holodeck and run any program that they like. And so she asks Harry if he wants to go join. Oh, and Harry brings up the Temple of Tuponit. Harry says, have you ever heard of the Temple of Tuponit, the Vulcan program?

Starting point is 01:34:17 And Mazzati goes, eh, sounds boring. Kim says, don't worry. In the, in the, uh, yeah, to my homage to Tom Paris, we will make a few tweaks on this program. And I love that that Harry walks out holding Mazadi's hand. Yeah, I don't, I don't remember that scene. But it's very sweet. Yes, it's sweet. It's very paternal and very warm.

Starting point is 01:34:38 And it's a, it's a happy way to. go out of it. It is. I remember the conversation the scene between Mazadi and I, but I don't remember the button where I walk out with her hand in hand. That was new to me. Oh, I totally forgot about that. I love Mazadi. So far, she's my favorite board kid. She's done a great job. She's awesome. What is your lesson, Robbie, from this episode? What is your overall lesson? My lesson is, I'm going to quote Corrette, who talks about the Kabali people believe that every life. is important. And to me, that's kind of my takeaway is like every life. There's not one that was better. Lindsay's life as a human was not more important than her life as a cabali. And that was

Starting point is 01:35:24 sort of where she ended up that every life is unique and important. What about you? I guess that it's more about the journey and not the destination, which is a theme that has already, you know, it's part Voyager itself, right? That's one of the main themes. It's the journey. It's not the destination. That's the title of our documentary to the journeys. It is.

Starting point is 01:35:46 It is. To the journey. So, you know, it's more about the times that I spent with Jet Lindsay and not about the ultimate ending, which is sadness and alone and not with her anymore. So it's about the memories that you make when you make them. So that's my lesson. Do you have any takeaways yourself, Miss Kim Rhodes from this? Oh, I love books.

Starting point is 01:36:08 of those perspectives and the only thing I could contribute is the quote also own the day own the day yes every life is important every journey is the point and so be authentic to who i am in this day as opposed to recreate or attempt to manufacture i love that great very good that pulls them all together i love it does it does Robbie what is your rating of this episode from one to ten what are you going to give this episode this was a tough one for me because cam i i do have to say i thought you brought an energy and a and a kind of effervescence that we didn't often have on our show there was such a sort of regal seriousness often with our show yeah the energy and the sense of fun you brought was refreshing and it was wonderful and from a sports ball terminology from sports

Starting point is 01:37:06 ball, she pretty much carried the team on her back. Yeah, you did. She was the running back that just took the entire team and yeah, deservedly so. And I'll say, Kim, just so you know where this rating's coming from, I have a rule that our best episodes are ones that involve

Starting point is 01:37:22 the ensemble where every character kind of contributes emotionally and in some way has some stakes in the story that's going on. And this one for me, if I'm being honest, did not involve our whole crew very well.

Starting point is 01:37:39 We didn't feel Tuvok's perspective. We didn't feel Tom's relationship with Harry very deeply in a story that I think that could have added to it. I don't think that seven dealing with the kids alone took advantage of Neelix's empathy and his skills with children. So there could have been ways that the story could have been better in my opinion.

Starting point is 01:38:04 Enhanced if it had involved our country. crew. So I'm going to give this a 7.5, which is pretty, it's still generous out of 10. Yeah, yeah, it is generous. 7.5. Yeah. I'm going to give it. I thought you were coming in. I thought you're going to come in hot with a 5.9 or something like there. I felt like you were going to go. I've done that before. He went really low the other day. I've gone down under force before. Yeah, he has. He has. This is 7.5 because because of our running back. Kim Rhodes who carried the story. so beautifully i thought you did a great job yeah i'd like the whole sci-fi you know angle of this of just having this person who has passed away has now been brought back to life by an alien race i like

Starting point is 01:38:47 the overall yeah concept and because of our star running back kim roads i will give this episode i'm gonna go 8.3 on this so i'm gonna go higher than you okay wow yeah yeah can you have a rating you have your rating i do actually um as someone who has been both a series regular and a guest star um i am going to go lower than both of you primarily because the guest star should not be the primary and um empathetic connection with the audience yeah this in my view should have been harry's arc it should have been harry's lesson we should have seen harry being reactive and then proactive as opposed to continually reactive. And also because we didn't see the impact if the guest star is going to be so pivotal

Starting point is 01:39:49 in the storyline, it should have ramifications for every single other character. Which is why then she has to go away and not come back. Yeah. Because now everyone has been changed, and I didn't see that happen. So I'm going with 6.5. Look at that. Wow. 6.5.

Starting point is 01:40:08 We're all over the map here. We're over the map, and that's actually much closer where I thought you would be. So here I have. Our Admiral and Captain average rating for Ashes to Ashes is, and you've not looked at this beforehand. I've not looked at this at all. This is written down by our production coordinator, 6.8. 6.8 is the average rating.

Starting point is 01:40:29 Yeah. Kim, you came closest. You were. So you win a new car. You do. Yay! It's this big, though. Yes.

Starting point is 01:40:39 It's a real big. All right. Well, there you go. That's the admirals and captains average rating. It was the closest to Kim Rhodes' guess. Her rating was very, very close. We would, first of all, say thank you so much to Kim for joining us. Yes.

Starting point is 01:40:55 Thank you so much. Yes. You were the third person to join us for the entire, entire recap. And we are so happy that you did that. So thank you so much for that. And at this point, for all of our Patreon patrons, you're in for surprise. We've got some really, really awesome new things that I don't even know about. So it's going to be fun.

Starting point is 01:41:17 So join us. Join us for the after party. We'll be there. Yes. And for the rest of you listening to the podcast, come back and visit us next week when we will be watching what episode? Childs Play. child's play is next week okay we'll see everybody then Thank you.

The Delta Flyers - Ashes to Ashes

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