The Delta Flyers - Battle Lines

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode is Battle Lines, hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell.Battle Lines: A runabout carrying Sisko, Kira, Bashir, and Kai Opaka crashes on a planet in the Gamma Quadrant, where they meet a group of aliens who cannot die and have been fighting a war for centuries.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Janet K Harlow, Brian Barrow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Vikki Williams, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Matt Norris, & Izzy JafferOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Chris Knapp, Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas,  Matthew Gravens, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Mary Jac Greer, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Tom Paynter, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Steven Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Mars DeVore, Stephanie Lee, Lisa Hill, David Smith, & Sam MikelicAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Meredith Hudes-Lowder, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Samantha Hunter, Jamason Isenburg, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Ryan Benoit, John Richardson, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Ryan Tomei-Sigurðarson, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Preston Meyer, Stacy Davis, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Pamela Miller, Rik Moran, Jan Hanford, Constance, Loretta Reyes, Jeremy McWilliams, & Timothy McMichensThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Dax, Quark, Tom, and Harry. Your host today are my fellow Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, or Robbie McDunk, or Romick, and myself, Garrett Wong, for the complete and amazing version of this podcast, please check out Patreon.com for it slash the Delta Flyers and sign up today to become a patron of this wonderful, wonderful podcast. Welcome to both of you. Hi, Terry. Hi, Robbie. Hey. Hey. What's going on? Look at you guys. You're so, you look so glowing. You just both look glowing. Oh, thank you. Robbie. Thank you. Some stuff happening on your neck of the woods. Oh, some stuff. Yeah. If you have a, if you have a septic tank and you've had a bad day with it,

that's what's happening with me i i feel like i'll just leave it at that all right i feel like you've been talking so much about how how replicators work you're saying like at some point oh something has to be interesting right and so i feel like you constantly talking about that sort of somewhat manifested i jinxed myself you kind of did you talked about replicator my septic as as an ex-science officer i have to say there is a dynamic to this situation where you put enough in, it's got to come out. Yes. Yes.

You put it up in. There's no manifesting other than creating it physically. Yeah. That is definitely science. Yes. And you had a big Christmas, so you had a lot of visitors. We had a lot of visitors. You can't ask them to go outside.

The more you put in, the more comes out. That's how it goes. I got to say something, though, I am wearing the new t-shirt. Look at that. Do you see this? For those they have the warm. Video version. Give us a little spin. Let me, let me describe it for the people who don't have video, okay?

It says on the pocket, it says journey through the wormhole, and it's kind of offset, like each journey is on top, then you have through, then the wormhole. But you have three colors being utilized. On the back, Robbie's turning around now to show us his back. It's actually, it's sort of using negative space because the space station has no print whatsoever, but all around it is printed. different names of characters, things that people said on DS9 that were, you know, noteworthy, and they're in a circular formation all the way around. And it's a really beautiful looking shirt. It's a beautiful shirt.

I love it. And you know what? Rebecca did a great job of it's the words look like the wormhole. Yes, they do. And the negative space being the space station. So it's like the wormhole is even bigger. Right. It's bigger than anything else, right?

Yeah, it's really great design. It's a great design. It's a great design. And if you're a Patreon patron and this is one of your perks, you're going to get it very soon. And if you don't get it as a perk, you can go to our store, the Delta Flyers. Dot org. Yeah. And just go to our store there.

Yeah, you can buy one. They're great. They're super, super cool. But join our club. We have fun. Yes, we do. We do have so much fun. Tell you know about it, Terry, because you've done the Zooms, the monthly zooms with our profits.

You're getting into the club. I'm getting into it. And it's really fun. It's fun. It's, you know, it's like a little secret wormhole society. Exactly. We are like a wormhole. The SWS secret wormhole society. Exactly. But really nice people, very nice people. It's a very down-to-earth. I don't know. It feels like if we had a bonfire, that would be just, that would just add to it. But that's how it feels. It's like we're all just getting together, hanging around a campfire, having a good time. Yeah, we've talked about having a third, right? It's very soon, yeah.

Yeah. We have talked about the Delta Flyers hosting an adult summer camp kind of experience, where we sit around a bonfire. I'll do that. Wouldn't that be a blast? I would so be into that. Doing away mission. I would.

The Delta Flyers, come on. Robbie, you put a pause after you said hosting an adult, there was a pregnant pause after adult. I was like, what? Adult sound festival. What are you talking about? Okay, adult. You're scaring me.

I got scared. Much more family-friendly. I thought Robbie was going down a dark alley. Yes. I, oh my gosh. We could each teach something. Armic could do a little seminar on, we could teach motorcycle maintenance.

What? Could you? Robby could teach motorcycle. Yes, Armine could do Shakespeare. Robbie, what could you teach? The other thing we talked about, though, is doing classes that our characters were whatever our specialty was, like neuroscience, piloting or science, and then training like Starfleet and then doing

an away mission where you have to go in a way teams at the summer camp. It would be fun. We have, the spitball thing's fun. What about we have somebody come in that is a trumpet teacher and they bring trumpets in to teach the class to play the beginning of the DS9. You know, like that would be. That's a French horn.

French horn. Oh, French horn? Is it a French horn and not trumpet? French horn. We have a French horn teacher come in and teach them. We can do Delta Flyers summer camp and have an orchestra. We can basically... It'll be like...

Well, the goal is to play the intro theme, music, which is beautiful. The more I listen to it, the more I love the DS9 intro theme music. You guys, we actually know two scientists. Yes, we could have a real scientist there. Yes, we do. What are you talking about? There's Dr. Aaron, and I can't think of our last week right now. Oh, oh, okay.

So, okay. And, um, Muhammad. Dr. Nor, yes. Mohamed. Yes. Dr. Nor.

What if they came? Because they could totally do a fun conversation. And then she's great at cocktails, too. We'd have fun doing that on the ship. Yeah. I didn't know she joined you on that. People can go to the camp and when they're, when they go home, they can say, and then one time at Star Trek camp, uh, we did.

science and then at Star Trek camp like that you can do that oh look at that American we can all wear red shirts with a communicator on them yeah I'm telling you this is a great idea but we're the teacher so we have to wear our colors like were you gold what color were you red I was gold Robbie's red yeah I was red yeah for a second I'm like what color was I yeah well anyway oh my gosh that's a whole other conversation you have a zoom and include arm and it will brainstorm the four of us It's going to happen. We're going to do it.

We're going to do it. Even if it's just a couple of days, even if it's like a long weekend. It's perfect. Because otherwise it's too expensive. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds great. Okay.

Long weekend, like a four-day, sort of a four-day camp. Yeah, yeah, like you check in Friday and leave Monday morning. Okay. All right. All right. Let's start this week's episode. It's battle lines. Yeah.

Battlelines. It's funny in my notes. I wrote Battleline with like the singular, not the S. And I thought, my gosh, I'm turning into my mother. She always like forgets the, the plural or the singular, she'll mix those up all the time. Being an immigrant, though, you know, not knowing that. Oh, so be kind to your mother.

I am. I am. I am. I'm just. To that big head. Be kind to your mother. Always be kind to your mother. Yeah, that big head.

You know what? There's only, but you almost killed your mother. Just Terry Farrell that can put us in line. Like, no one is able to put Robbie and I in line. Absolutely. I still remember before we started recording today, it flashed through my memory that one recording, Robbie comes on. He's chewing his gum.

And Terry was like, what are you doing, Robbie? And Robbie's like, what? Take that gum out. And Robbie's like, like, yes, ma'am. And I said it just like that. Yes. It was so good. But only Terry puts us in line.

Nobody is disciplined us like that ever. If you want to go even deeper into Voyager and or Deep Space Nine, check us out at Patreon. We have tiers ranging from $3 to $260 a month, fun perks, including all bonuses. segments, like our ratings of the episodes, winner and loser picks for the episodes, our ideas for a missing scene for each episode, and answering Patreon member submitted questions. You can watch the video version of the podcast and see reaction clips from the host as they watch and react to the episodes in real time. Plus, you can participate in Patreon polls for the bonus segments. We have guest interviews, monthly blooper reels, birthday shoutouts on the podcast. You can even

get autographs and cool swag mailed right to you. Plus, we have monthly Zooms where you can join us and Armin or Terry for a relaxed discussion and Q&A. Go to www.com forward slash the Delta Flyers forward slash membership to check out what we have to offer and pick a tear. Terry, I'm going to do my limerick for battle lines, plural. Go. I'm so excited. Go. Did you write Did you come up with anything this time? Oh, you did. Poetry? I love.

Terry's poetry is like real poetry. Mine is like gimmicky poetry. So let's go with Robbie's limerick. I'll start with my limerick. Here we go for battle lines. The Limerick synopsis goes a little something like this. Kio Paca comes to visit and adventures underway through the wormhole. She wants to go play.

But the aliens keep killing their death wish self-fulfilling. But O'Brien's magnetamer. really saves the day. Yeah. I think that was spectacular. What are you talking about? I got magnetamer in there. I love that he invented a magnetamer.

Magnetimer. He invented even that you can say it without pausing. Without bumbling at time. Yeah, that's amazing. I actually wrote it out phonetically because I wanted to make sure. Yes. Look at you. I was going to screw that up.

Well, he's a smart man. He is. He is. I'm a planner. Yeah, he prepares well. All right, here we go. My haiku for battle lines. Kai shows up for tour, destined to pass through wormhole.

Eternal microbes. Nice. Nice. That is profound. I don't think I'm going to elevate this. Let's move. All right. I have no doubt you will.

Okay. Kira struggles with her anger. Her actions mirrored in present danger. Two sides fighting to be right. This battle has no winner with might. Fairness and care explained, wasted on egos inflamed. Opa on a new mission, our heroes back to first position. Whoa.

That's good. That was really good. You have real poetry. Oh, my gosh. Thank you. I think that all three of us really contributed. Yes. I think we got 10.

out of 10 this time. If people just listen to the poems, they would get this episode. I'm going to say right now, I think we're done. I don't think we have to say anything. We are finished with this episode. We've covered everything. Love you guys. I see it.

You guys are the best. See you next. Bye. See you next. See you next. Okay. Here we go. Teleplay.

Tell a play by Richard. Richard Danis and Evan Carlos Summers. Never heard of them. Teleplay, but they wrote this teleplay. Yes. Story by Hillary J. Bader. Yes. Can I talk about the teleplay people real quickly?

Yeah, sure. Okay. So this is really interesting. Evan Carlos Summers, he came in and he pitched an idea to them. And evidently he didn't do that well in the pitch session. But it was Ira who told, I think it was Michael Pillar. Ira told Michael Pillar, I really, I trust. this guy, Evan Carlos Summers, I think we should give him an assignment to write the teleplay

for battle lines. And so he was a trainee at the time, I think, is what it was. So he was just in the room. And this is when I wrote was a supervising producer. Yeah, he wasn't running the show. Yes. But after he wrote this teleplay, they hired him on the writing staff. So he got this was his way. I haven't heard of him yet. Wow. That's exciting. It's a really cool story. Yeah. Because like, you know, I mean, what about Richard Dennis? I don't know. I don't know which thing about Richard, unfortunately. Nobody cares about Richard at all, unfortunately. Evan got all the glory.

He did. He did. Directed by Paul Lynch. Yes. My good friend, Paul Lynch. And this is the last episode he directs, by the way. Yes. That's what I saw in Memory Alpha.

He doesn't direct another DS9 after this. What happened? He directed most of your episodes, and then suddenly, boom, he's out. I wonder if he, like. Which episode was this? Was this 12? Battle of, something like that. Yes.

Yeah, but yeah, he probably directed a third of your episodes at this point. And then suddenly he might have gone to do another show or something. I don't know. Who knows? Who knows? We start this episode in the commander's office. We have Dax, O'Brien, and Cisco. And interesting enough, O'Brien has located some personal files of the last Cardassian prefect.

And so you see this laptop monitor on Cisco's desk with an image. And it says, Kira Norese on there. But it's long hair. Kira Norese. Did you notice that guys? There was no sure. It was like this long. It looked more like the first, the pilot when she had sort of the even longer. No, no, no, this hair went past her shoulders to like her chest area. That's how long this hair was. And I was like, my, couldn't it? Like down. So then it's a wig. Yes. It's got to be a wig. But they're saying that this is old school Kira. This is young Kira. Young Kira Neeris.

Yes. So they're looking at this file and Kira walks at the exact same time that O'Brien asked Cisco if he should warn Kira before she sees this file and she says, well, what, what's this about? And so she says she's a big girl, she can have it. Yeah, she's, I'm a big girl. I can take care of this. Yeah,

I'm not going to. Yeah. Daxon flustered by this. Yes, Jackson Miles leave. They leave the office and Kira basically stays behind to look at this information, this file on that chip that Cisco hands up. Did you notice the computer, by the way, had like a

chunk out of it. It was like a weird shape. I've never seen a computer like this. It looked like the screen had a chunk or the monitor. It kind of like it kind of did a weird shape. I've just never seen one like this. Is it a Cardassian laptop then? Is that what it is? Cardassian. Maybe that's why it had a weird shape. Yeah. I didn't notice that. They would have done it on purpose, right? It would have been a purposeful thing. Yeah. It's just a weird laptop. It was just an odd. I'd never seen one like that before. Right. So it may not have been Starfleet then. Maybe not. maybe that's the whole point right yeah that is the whole point he walks he walks out to ops he steps out there and and Bashir calls to say basically

he lets Cisco know that Kai Opaka has arrived for a visit unannounced this is like a surprise total surprise but she says Cisco offered her a tour you know invited her yeah and so as he goes to welcome Kyle Opa here comes in and she's not a big girl like she said she's very upset she's so offended the Kardashians called her a minor operative

that she just ran errands it was very funny she was a gopher a minor operative gopher is all she was Cisco calms her down by telling her to come join him to welcome the Kai aboard all right

we're in the promenade huge honor he did that on purpose knowing that she says, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're feeling minimized. Yeah, Nan did a good job, though. She pivoted very quickly from totally offended to, the Kai's here, right? Well, she's a good actor. By the way, you know, my son is named Kyle and his nickname is Kai. Oh, really? That is your son's nickname. Yeah, we call him. And he came before this show. You didn't name him. He came 94, so.

Maybe it was inspired by the Kaiopaka. Maybe, even though I didn't watch the show. Yeah. I just knew. There it is. You knew. Yes. Another manifest.

It was destiny. It was destiny, absolutely. Okay. So they're in the promenade. The Kai walks into the promenade, followed by Kira. And then Cisco and Bashir are lagging a bit behind. But as they walk in through that one door, you do see Odo sort of standing guard, I guess, or whatever. And then he walks away, but you also see mourn.

There's a lot going on in the scene. It's a really cool shot, I think. Are they, are they in the temple or are they coming out of? It almost looked like they were coming out of a chapel or something. No, they were coming through from the airlock into the main promenade, right? Oh, I thought she was coming out of like a church environment or something. No, no, no. I think it looks like that, though, because the way it was backlit, you don't normally see the airlock looking like that.

You normally see them coming out, not inside to the airlock. So the airlock, yeah. So the way they lit the airlock, you're saying it was more. more kind of lighting. Yeah, it seemed like a chapel. Purposeful. That makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. So Julia mentions that the Kai seems rather preoccupied. And she does. She almost looks like a zombie. And she's just kind of walking. And she walks up to the upper level. And then she gazes out this window. Kira also notices that the Kai is deep in thought.

And so Kai is just looking, looking. And Kira says, is anything wrong? Opaka replies that she's contemplating prophecy. So very, you know, just, you're not sure what's gotten some kind of message and she's not telling anyone no she's there are a lot of

okay can I say one thing yes there are and in this moment in this moment I have to say there was I was thinking is she maybe possessed by some being and we don't okay because I didn't remember the episode either like at all I agree but yeah I thought

she's in a trance she's in a trans yeah she's very in a trance no it looks like she's in a trans it just looked like she could have been you know, taken over by another entity. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

For sure. There's a little long for my taste, some of these pauses. Yeah. Awkward. They felt awkward. Not natural. Yeah. Kira does find that it's interesting that the Kai is actually looking out the one viewport

with the most direct view of the wormhole. Cisco says, unfortunately, one can only see the wormhole when a ship enters or exits the wormhole. And then such a weird scene. What is she staring at then? She's staring, like, looking at nothing. She knew, she knew that's where it was. That's what I thought it was.

I thought, oh, that's very missed. She's, she's feeling it. She's feeling it. But I love the look after he says that you can't see it unless a ship enters or exits. She, Kai, and Kira turn to Cisco and give him puppy dog eyes. They're like, please. And then, yeah, so then he hails Chief O'Brien to prepare the runabout

Yang Zed Jiang for long. and Kira and Cisco decide that they will take Kai through the wormhole. It's a moment. Did you notice? Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. No, no. I want to hear your thoughts.

Kara was irritated about Julian going along. What? She looked at him. No. Oh, yes. I did not. I did not catch that. She wanted to have her time alone with Kyle Papa.

He was like, and it plays into the next episode a little bit. Oh, interesting. Really? Yeah. I noticed it. He was very, you know, like a puppy. He's like, it's a slow day. She's like serious into her, like, this is my religion, this is my way of life.

Yeah. We're bringing this guy on. You know what? I didn't catch that. Well, thank God, Bashir went along. They need a doctor. They need. They did need a doctor, actually.

And we'll see later on, not only is he a doctor, but he's an engineer and a shuttle mechanic that can fix. Oh, my gosh. He can do everything. It was like blown away. I love Bashir. Like, I really, I should have, like, taken another look at this guy. Robbie, did Bob Picardo ever fix anything on the ship?

I never saw Bob sit, like, laying down under a console trying to fix anything. Isn't he a Yale graduate? He doesn't sit down and fix anything. No, he's just brains. I could tell you how to fix it, but he's not going to get dirty. Yeah. Okay, okay. Yes, exactly.

He would order us to do it. I should say this. Did the doctor on our show, not Bob Ricardo from Yale, but our doctor, he never fixed anything on the ship. right Robbie he never did like engine he wasn't like Bashir in this episode climbing under oh it was really impressive did bones ever fix anything on the ship no no no no they were just doctors no did did flocks on enterprise ever fix anything on the show probably not either so Bashir is the best doctor ever shuttle fixer ever he's a man who wears team Bashir yes he's a man who wears many hats most definitely okay there are we oh we're in the air

We're in the airlock, yeah. Brian has the runabout ready. And before they get on, Kai sort of stares another awkward pause. Long pause. He stares at O'Brien. And then she senses something. And he's awkwardly kind of silently standing there. And she says, she says he has a child, right?

Yeah. And then she gives him this necklace. She takes off some necklace and hands it to him. Yeah. It was very odd. And, you know, I thought it was weird, too. That was the first weird. There's no payoff.

There's no payoff. It doesn't go anywhere. Maybe in the next episode? No, I don't think it. I don't think so. But it was supposed to suggest, I guess, that she knew she wasn't coming back. Yeah, that this was her final. Yes.

I guess, but we don't know that yet. Then why not give it to Kira? Oh, yeah. I mean, when you're on the planet and, oh, I'm sorry, I'm getting head of myself. Don't spoil it. I'm watching it in real time right now. Yeah, I guess everybody who's seen it, that's who we're talking to right now. Yeah, then I would have thought if we could just move it to the end.

Yeah, and take this. That would have been much better. I like that, Terry. Thank you. Well, so Apaka gives the thing. Let's go back and reshoot. She gives the necklace. So Brian kind of looks at it oddly and then walks away.

We go out to space and we see the shuttle depart. And I want to say this Viz effect shot of the shuttle departing the ship, the way it took off, it was super well done. Oh, good. I liked it. I guess it was models. I don't know, but it was great. It is.

I wish I remembered what stage it was, but yeah. Very cool. Great work. Great model work on that. So we're inside the runabout and the very first line in that interior of the runabout scene. Cisco says we'll be entering the wormhole in about a minute. And according to the interwebs, Cisco, sorry, Avery said incorrectly in one take.

He goes, we'll be entering the wormhole in about an hour. And the actress playing Kyle Paca, Camille, actually looked at it, pretended to look at her watch. She's like, I don't have time for that. I got 15 minutes or something like made a big joke and made a big old joke about it. And then everyone laughed and they continued. So anyway, go ahead, Robbie. Yeah.

So they're in the in the runabout. I keep wanting to call it a shuttle. I know. It's a runabout. not a shuttle it's actually a ship it's a full on ship yeah so uh they're inside and when cisco calls back to the station and says to expect them back at 1400 hours i immediately went oh they're not going to be back like why is he saying this unless they're going to get they just need to say this so that the ship will or the station will go oh they're not back at 1400 like he said

you got to go save them i knew in that line that that that the ship that the station will go go go and that the that they were going to get stuck there. And also, that's our, that is our experience of reading so many scripts throughout our careers. Yes. That were, they're little tells that were right away. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Exactly.

But they go through the wormhole, another cool vis-effect show. Oh, yeah. Very cool wormhole journey. Yeah. As per usual. Yeah. And then they come out in the Gamma Quadrant. I love that Cisco is very proud of his flying.

He says something like. that's my my smoothest ride yet Kara or something like that he's very proud of his piloting if they ever make a DS9 ride it should be going through the wormhole right if that becomes like a theme part kind of thing right

oh my gosh the Delta Flyers can build this we'll build it at our summer camp can this be our thing okay we'll have a motion simulator wormhole ride we're nothing but ambitious if we're nothing we're ambitious that's what I mean you know we

We know some very well-heeled fans. They may be able to foot this bill. To foot the bill for our wormhole motion. Or we can build just a program for virtual. Oh, for virtual reality. Exactly. Exactly. That's there we go.

Because otherwise we could just go to space mountain. Software programmers and call it the wormhole. There you go. We could do that too. We could do that too. Or the people listening to this, there might be someone out there. There's a really awesome, you know, designer, software designer that could come up with this program for us. VR wormhole.

VR wormhole. And have my Oculus already. It's all charged and ready to go. All right. So we're in the Gamma Quadrant. Cisco is very proud of his flying. And he talks about how proud he is the station. And, you know, it's right there next to this shortcut to the gamma quadrant.

And it's going to be great. You know, in the future, he's kind of pitching it. And then Kira says, you know, we probably should turn around head back. And Kai's like, no, no, we can't go back. I want to see more. And then suddenly. But there was nothing else to see. There was nothing there.

That's what they say. They're like, yeah. This is it. This is it. It's just space. We haven't really explored it yet. We don't know much about it. It's just space.

At that moment, a data stream comes in. Cisco says, well, let's leave a probe behind to study this data stream. And we'll deal with it when we come back sometime. But Kyopaka wants to go, nah. It's a subspace signal that he picks up, right? So it's just a stream of statistical data requesting for a reply. So it's a very, you know, it's not really. It's not an SOS.

It's not a, so they're just trying to figure out what it is. They don't know what it is. I would leave a probe. I'm with Cisco. Leave a probe. Just get out of there. But Kyopaka wants to go see it. And again, like, Kyopaka seems to have a spell over Cisco.

Like, she's at the promenade. Yeah. Let's go through the wormhole. Okay. She touched his paw. She felt his paw. So there's a connection there. He's the emissary.

Yeah, he is the emissary. You're right. But don't you think he gives in a little quick for it. Very quick. I mean, honestly, she's not starfully. this is a dangerous thing to go check anything out with somebody who isn't military prepared. Agreed. But with 42 minutes, just tell the whole story. You can't. Yeah, you got to get through it.

All right. So he gives in again and decides to go take a look at where this data stream is coming from. And then we go out to space. We see this kind of brown, pretty ugly planet, actually. It doesn't look great. They approach this planet. discover the signal is coming from this satellite network orbiting the planet. But can I just say one thing, Robbie? It's a moon and not a planet. It's a moon, right? Yes.

Okay. I keep calling it a planet. They do call it a moon in the thing. You're in space. Yeah. Well, we have a set. We have the cave sets. Yeah.

That's true. We had one last time. But now it's a moon. We have cave sets, though, that they write to things like this. That's right. That's right. And the majority of this was filmed on DS9. planetary set or moon set, which was stage 18, it's all on 18, which is what you called

it or moon hell for this episode, yes. They're the same rocks, no matter what it is. Exactly. They're always the same rocks. Yep. But they discover this orbiting satellite network, and then Bashir picks up some kind of life signs on the planet, and they decide to move a little closer, right? Yes, but before that, Robbie, I just want to just throw this in there.

They actually realized what that signal was. One of the satellites is malfunctioning. So it was sending, it was basically inter-satellite communication. One satellite was requesting information from the malfunctioning one and asking for a reply. And when they move closer, continue. Yeah, they move closer. And suddenly one of the satellites like fires up and starts charges, you know, engines and starts coming at them and fires at them.

and in a very exciting action sequence, they lose all power, crash land on the surface. And I thought this scene was part of the tape that they, the shake tape that they sent us on Voyager, Garrett. No, really? No, I thought what was hilarious was a nod, like,

oh, my God, the shaking was incredible. There was something about the way she was going back and forth on the... Her dancer moves. It was too fluid. Okay. That reminds me of Kate, whenever Kate did it on our show, it was like, Robbie, it was like, she's a lady. There's a lady move. Yes.

Robbie, who amongst the Voyager cast still has a copy of that shape? I don't know. Somebody has to have. I think the scene was in it. I really do. I would love to see that too. Which is amazing that they said, hey, do it like this. Because now that I'm looking at, I'm like, oh, my God.

No, that's not the way to do it. Yeah. No, it was not the best shake secret. It was not great. No, and it was big. But it did look like more like a dance move than like a. jarring all over the place. Whenever the shots are wide and you can see the whole body shaking, it looks bad.

You have to be in a close-up and then it's just, it feels more legit. Or if everybody's body's moving. Yes. And like when we were standing in ops moving, it looked real. Yeah. I think those are the only wide shots that really work. But when you're sitting. Yeah.

And you're seeing that whole. It's harder to do when you're sitting. That's for sure. I think so. And everybody's got to be in sync. And Kyopaka was not shaking. She was not shaking at all So I was like

She's like I'm not playing This game I don't think she has her own equilibrium Where she doesn't you know She's sort of like a stay cam human being So it doesn't really She's not gonna She's she's unshakable is what she is

And not she not shaking But she was very calm Like everybody else is freaking out What is she knew She was she was fulfilling her prophecy Her fate It was already written Yeah

Yeah Yeah Okay. So they crash. Blackout. Woohoo. Crash. Boom. Boom. Like that. Yeah. And then it's totally black and kind of not really black. So it's a little confusing because I thought, wait a minute. Did they, what's, is there, is there an error in this edit or something? But if the camera pans up, right? It's the edge of the cliff. That's what it was. Right. Yes. How much did this look like a TOS set, right? When you saw the shuttle in the sand like that to me, it looked like an original series episode. It was like, what? So the smoke coming out, you know. Yes, yes. They do blow an emergency hatch. Yes, they do.

On this moon. We never did that. No, we never did that. Nope. It was very cool. They blow the hatch, Cisco and Bashir come out. And then they reach back in and they lift Opaka. And she's unconscious.

But her eyes are wide, big wide eyes. Yeah. Like my dog Walter has crazy eyes like that sometimes. But she, the way her hands were reminded me of like, when an NFL player gets hit really hard and they're going through that little, you know, where their hands end up doing weird kind of things, right? They're just sort of frozen. Oh, when they've had like a concussion?

Yes, yes. When you get knocked out unconscious in football, that's sometimes the hands get really weird. And that's her hands are out. nerve damage. Yeah. Yeah, she's got the weird hand move and the big eye, crazy eyes. Big eyes. They bring her out.

Bashir tries to give her CPR or something. and then he doesn't save her. She dies. She's done. Well, he couldn't save her. Don't say he didn't. It wasn't like you went, I don't want to save her.

But here's my problem with this scene. I mean, don't you guys see this as well? If Kai has all that crushed the rest, I mean, if that much damage, the rest of them should have all that damage too because nobody has a seatbelt. There's no seatbelts in that run.

And she didn't move. She didn't move. She just stood, she sat there. Horaceous spine. All that stuff was, everything was compacted. But I believe a heart attack. Yeah, but why Cisco, why is, there's no injury to Cisco. There's no injury to Bashir whatsoever.

There's a little cut on Kira's arm, but that's it. Well, she reacts big to the cut on her arm. He does, but I don't understand. That's, yeah, we'll get to that. But do you guys also, did you guys think that when you were watching this? Like, why is it everyone? Why isn't everyone that's injured? It was so bad that she died.

And what hit her? I mean, I've been in those runabouts. What hit her? The windshield, clearly. She just went right into it or, you know, a console. Oh, I was thinking that too. Watching Nanau go back and forth like that, does anybody else think, why don't we have seatbelts on? Yes.

Yes. It is so maddening. It makes me. You're flying. You're being hurled through space and you don't have what a pilot would have for United Airlines. Like, are you kidding? The first time, well, that's how it's always been, though, Terry, in every track incarnation until J.J. Abrams took over and filmed that 2008 feature film, recasting Kirk, Spock, and all those guys, there's seatbelts in that film. But other than that, there are no sequels. Did Enterprise have seatbelts? I wonder if Enterprise had Enterprise? No. No. On the series. I think it's because it stops you from getting up easily, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a hindrance for film.

I have them for quite. Oh, my God. You should. For sure. All right. So Kyle Pock is dead. And then Kira becomes very overwhelmed. She's very emotional about this.

Starts chanting some pejoran prayers. And as she's chanting the prayers, we cut over to a corner of the cave. And I love this shot where this hand comes in the foreground. Yeah, that was a cool shot. That was a very cool shot. Nice, nice work, Paul. Do they ever have, Terry, do they ever have her speaking in her language at any other point in the series? I don't know.

We'd have to ask her because she would know. I imagine so. I just, like, I'm rewatching it with you. We'll find out. Right. We'll find out. We'll find out. Yeah.

She does her, Ankaya Ayyavasu, Komara, like that. Yeah, it almost sounded like Kuchimoyah from Beltran from our show. Yeah, it's almost indigenous. I also felt it was interesting because she did not actually have physical tears in this, in this scene. But later she does with the Kai. But here, with the alive Kai, with the dead Kai, she doesn't have. She's in shock, Garrett. She's in shock.

She's in shock. She's got to remember her prayer lines. So she's really focused on that. Who knows what's happening? Who knows? I'm just saying it's tough for an actor. It could be two in the morning. Yeah, but this is her first.

But guys, this is as a series regular, this is her first. emotional scene where she's supposed to cry, right? And I find that, you know, that can be very daunting, very daunting to be able, with all those people around you on the set, to get to that position where you have honest, freaking waterworks coming out of your eyeballs, that's hard to do. It really is. But I do think she found something later when it was quiet and that, you know, that scene in the cave where you have less people running around you, I think.

Yeah. She was able to focus more, I feel. So, all right. Well, so she's chanting her Ayakaya Vasu Monkhani. Yes. And then the hand shows up and Cisco looks over and there's a group of these, they look like homeless aliens. They just look beat up.

No, they don't. They just look like, oh, we found some old Klingon uniforms to throw on everybody. Guys, no, not, I don't think so. They don't think they look like, no, they look like the Fremon from Dune is what they look like. To me, the... Oh, I understand that, too. But, no, there was this sheath part on their shoulders that had the, like, kind of... Yeah, because I had a costume, you'll see later.

I have a costume with that same kind of... I mean, I look... It's a way more spectacular kind of an outfit, but... You looked fabulous, I'm sure. Thank you. Well, they didn't have me all ripped up and torn up either, so it was, you know. Okay. They're definitely rag-tag, though, Robbie.

Yes. So I wouldn't say homeless, but they're rag-tag, yes. Okay. Okay. So they're a mess. then we go back to ops finally we go back to ops back to the station clearly it's past the 1,400 hours that Cisco casually mentioned for no apparent reason and no longer two in the afternoon yes odo is very worried about Cisco being late in the scene and it's 530 right now

but mostly because of the Kai yes the ties people are very upset they want details they want information. And Dax tells Odo to have the Bajoran station a ship on the Gamma Quadrant side of the wormhole. And then they can go relay information, whatever they find out. Dax is always

on point. Oh, the shot when the things were going down. It's Dax and O'Brien going down and they're talking to O'Brien and I are totally chill about the whole thing. Like, we're going to handle it. No, totally. But just the shot on Odo where Odo's, like, he's like, he's like, crouching down.

Yeah, it was a, I really liked that. We didn't do anything like that. Yeah, it was cool. I did like that. Yeah, it was cool. Yeah, it was nice, Paul Lynch. Paul Lynch again. Yeah.

Even though this is your last one and you're never coming back. But good job. It's a good last hurrah. Yeah. It is. I like this episode. Yeah. All right.

So we go to the caves again and we meet Shella, who is kind of their, I guess that's how you pronounce it, right? Oh, well, is this actor's name. Okay. When he came on screen, I yelled, Michael Ironside, but it's not Michael Ironside. It's Jonathan Banks. Jonathan Banks. Oh, my God.

I love his acting. He was amazing in what's the one with the meth people? Yes, I did the same thing for my reaction. I was like, oh my gosh, what's his name? Oh, my gosh. He played Mike, the hitman. He's a solid actor. Yeah, he's very good.

But I thought it was Michael Ironside because he has that little prosthetic thing on there, right? Yeah. That is so funny that you say that. You know what? I haven't thought about him forever. And I just saw a movie. with Michael Ironside in it and it was like oh my gosh

I wonder how he is but you know we didn't even talk about guest stars Robbie we forgot too well we'll talk about them as we go yeah as we see them as we saw so Jonathan Banks classy amazing actor now very good actor

so shella wants to know who they are he asks Cisco says that they have discovered this wormhole that they're from Starfleet and that they're just exploring and Bashir wants his med kit at one point to help the injured Kira. Okay, let's talk about that.

She was totally fine until the guard actually grabbed her arm in a certain way. And that's when she winced and fell. Because otherwise, I thought I initially didn't see that. I had to rewind it four or five times because to me, it seemed like a pratfall almost. Like she was trying to do that as a diversionary tactic because I thought, oh, they're going to break free. Like she's falling down pretending she's in a lot of pain. And then I saw that her uniform was actually, you know, It's hard to see so dark in there, yeah.

Right. But there's blood there and there's a cut too, I think, right? I noticed that there was something before, but it didn't seem like she was reacting to it. No, there was no reaction to it. But then the guy grabs her in a certain way on her arm and then she drops down. But it was so sudden to me that I thought, oh, this is a plan. They're planning some type of escape, but it wasn't interesting. That's so funny.

My impression, I thought it felt like, you know, like maybe she should have been directed differently because it looked too big. It looked like overacting. It looked like it came out of nowhere, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So really... To me, that would be directing because maybe they shot that first

and then shot the other. That's what I'm thinking. You know, and then they forgot about it and then somebody should have reminded her about her... Well, it's continuity, right? It's continuity. Like, she should have been gingerly, you know, protecting that the entire time...

Something at least for holding it. Yes. Yeah. Because then it's confusing to the audience. You don't know what's happening. Yes. Yes, I agree. Well, Cisco has explained who they are to Shella and Bashir wants this med kit to help Kira.

And it's very funny. They awkwardly like, it's another long pause. There's a lot of long silent pauses. You think we could take out like maybe three minutes? Oh, they could have easily. They could add whatever our scene is going to, missing scenes. We have time for that for all those pauses. We do.

Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, they, shella nods and then somebody opens it and they start digging through it. And then finally, he's like, just give me that, which I thought was funny. It did, it did end funny, the awkward long pause. It did. And I like it when SIDS, when Bashir does, has those moments.

Like, he seems silly. And then when he gets, when he's capable, when his capabilities need to arise and show up, he definitely takes command. And it's like, yeah, right on. Yeah, okay. Oh, Dr. Bashir. He's great. Bashir gets this case. And then Shela starts to explain about their war, that they're at war, that their

enemy is horribly brutal. Ruthless. Yes. And that they are in this prison camp. And they don't control the satellites that, you know, Cisco dealt with. They have no control over that. And he says, but now that you're here with us, you're going to be considered allies of our people just because you're here with us.

and he does say that they have a lot of injured people. Shella says his people have a lot of injuries and that they need a doctor because they don't have a doctor. Does Shella hold the phaser in this scene? No. Does he hold up the phaser in this scene? Or not? It talks about energy weapons.

Yeah. Is that in this scene or later? I think it is. It's somewhere. This is a long scene, by the way. Okay. Yeah, it really goes on and on and on. Okay, because.

And that's when he explains that the weapon is too tamed. Like an energy. It doesn't, yeah, he goes, he goes, Is this energy, is this an energy weapon? He's like, yes. He goes, huh, he goes, the Enis, which they are. So it was like, it's sort of like when, if Robbie was to say, the Robbie is hungry like that. He was talking in third person.

And I talk that way sometimes. I do too. The Robbie lost doing this podcast. What is that about? Oh, my God. We're all old nuts. No, but the way he said it, he goes, the Ennis stopped using the centuries ago because it's not damaging enough. So it sounds like.

he's talking about the enemy, you know, using new weapons. But he's talking, but he is the Ennis. The other group is the null. Noll Ennis, yes. Right? So was that confusing to you guys too? Yes. I don't know.

Yeah, but he does say that the energy weapons were not damaging enough. Enough. Yeah. Oh my goodness. So, yes, that is the scene. But we cut over, in this long scene, we cut over to Bashir, treating Kira. And she is in shock. She thinks that Kai's, you know, Kyle Parker's death was.

was pointless right and she's crying here there's tears here i think yes tears tear seen lots of tears uh Cisco arrives and he shares with them that he's made a deal to exchange Bashir's medical help for protection so these Ennis will protect them if Bashir helps out as a doctor and then suddenly this firefight starts there's a big shake and and, you know, and this is a giant, yes, they get attacked by the Nol Ennis. The Nol Ennis show up. And the only way you can tell the difference. They have helmets.

Yeah, they. Well, this is a giant firefight. I did see Dennis Madelone. I saw Tom Morga. I saw a bunch of them. I did. I was like, but I might be wrong. So I erased that reaction.

I was like, yes. So guys, guys, quick interjection from the interwebs. This is really cool. Dennis Madelone, this is one of his favorite episodes of DS9 because Paul, Paul Lynch actually said, we have two full shooting days of just fighting. You directed. He let Matt alone direct. So Dennis was like, you want me to do everything.

He's like, yep, you do the choreography. You decide what camera angle. You do everything. Okay. He's like, all right. So he would set something up. He would come over to Paul. And he's like, is that cool?

He's like, yeah, of course, just print it. Let's go. Move on. And Paul was reading a magazine during the totally makes sense. Just chilling out. Totally make sense. I can totally see him doing it, yeah. But imagine a stunt coordinator allowed to direct the entire day.

Yeah, I believe it, though, because he was so good. He really was. Tom Morga, so you do see Dennis Madelone as a background Ennis, so he's on Jonathan Bank's side, and Tom Morga is on the other side. He's null Ennis, and also from the interwebs, Tom Morga designed all of the weapons, actually. Wow. Not Dan Curry? Not the props master, but he, like the knives and the hand-to-hand ones, not the energy weapons, but the hand, like the knives.

Yeah, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Wow. Because Dan Curry made my bat list or made the battle lists, right? I shouldn't say mine. You could say, Dan, because he was really into weapons when he was in the Peace Corps and traveling through Asia. So he took all these weapon ideas and combined it. Yeah, Dan's awesome. Wouldn't that be a good idea of Dan Curry with some just, we.

didn't know his past and he was like an arms dealer that we didn't know about back in the day a ninja assassin assassin dan curry you're fun to brainstorm with all right um oh we also learned in this scene that this is basically a penal colony is what it is right we didn't we didn't know that until this scene yes that those satellites have nothing it's like the prison system it's not what you think oh it's not a penis colony yeah it is a although that wouldn't be a bad i want to say this prison colony that's a totally different kind of colony i forgot God, I forgot. It makes sense now.

Wait, we skipped over at the end of this giant firefight. Yes. Kira does a magic roll across the floor. Oh, she does. Yes, grabs a phaser energy weapon. Yes. She doesn't shoot the energy weapon. She doesn't shoot.

No, but now that she's been healed by Bashir, she can do her. So, she can do the acrobatic roll. But she shoots the rocks. She shoots the rocks up above. And it hits the guys. But I wanted to say, they all had helmets on. Why did they get hurt? Well,

they have these giant helmets. They're thin helmets. Yes, they're only for show and or for. They're only for sure. Yeah, they're not for protection. But did you see there was one background null in this? Because it wasn't just, you had one, the rocks hit them, but there were residual rocks that came down afterwards.

So one of them with after they were lying on the ground, one of the rocks came and landed right on his crotch. It went a right on it. But it's still a fake rock, right? I mean, it's not going to be real rock. But he reacted like it was a real one, right? probably he's like ah it might have still hurt yeah i'm sure i mean any even if it's a fake especially if you don't see it coming no and it's coming right at your privates i mean you guys

don't wear cups to work do you no we don't i always do i always i'm wearing one right now for the podcast i wear protection i always wear protection i am wearing a bra but it is not cupworthy i'll tell you that right now it is not a there's no protection from falling rocks even if they're just sci-fi rock i'm sorry i'm sorry robber just i i just have an image of you going everywhere wearing a growing cup everywhere you're like you're at work i'm like directing it's yes i all definitely wear it when you're directing this is me knock knock yeah so these guys with helmets they all get crushed the noel ennis uh the remaining ones uh scatter and they retreat yeah And then as they're checking casualties, they go around and checking, everybody seems dead.

Yeah, everybody. They seem dead. They seem dead. But Kira sees something off in a distance. And it's a silhouette of Opaka. And Opaka is alive. Yeah. Now, did they just leave her laying on the ground?

Did they bury her? Yes. Yes, they did. Because remember, when the Ennis captured them, they took them to their headquarters. And of course, I was already dead. They just left. I mean, what are they going to do? Just left a dead body.

Wait a minute. I just want to say, too, with all of our experience now with the walking dead and the whole zombie things, I was like going. Oh, yeah. This is a zombie. Like, yes, exactly. It's a zombie episode. Now she is possessed.

I've been waiting for this moment. No. No. All right. So a little later, the bodies are being dragged away. And they ask Kyle Paca, what does she remember? And she remembers some of the crash. She remembers, you know, some of the space battle.

But Cisco asks if she remembers being dead. And she just stares and walks away. Yeah. Another awkward silent. Pause. Yeah. At this point, have the soldiers all gotten up already now? Or they, have they still?

They start to get up. They start reanimating right now. Yeah. They start reanimating. Yeah. So she walks away like a zombie. Jeffrey Combs will understand that reference. Yes, exactly.

So Bashir wants, yeah, Bashir wants to use the runabout's computer to do a full analysis to try to figure out what happened to Kyopaka. And that's when suddenly the dead prisoners that are laying all over the ground start to come back to life. But they're over near Kyle Paca. So part of me was like, does she have still have some magic? Oh, does she have the power to tell? Right. That's right. Me too.

Me too. Didn't know about the microbes yet. So, yeah. But yeah, the corpses all wake up and Bashir says, it's okay. It's going to, it's all right. I guess he's talking, I think he was talking to the dead people as they awoke or something. Yeah. But zombie scene.

It's the zombie. It's weird. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We go to the runabout Rio Grande where Dax and O'Brien are on the search, but they're out in the Gamma Quadrant, finding nothing. and they love working with him oh you guys were awesome i loved whenever we went back to the it was great he's just so easy to work with yeah your chemistry together was really fun we're in the runabout dachson o'brien do discover you know they find the warp eddy from the runabouts you know

warp trail i guess and so they can tell generally the direction uh that they went but it's into an uncharted binary star system. And O'Brien says, well, I guess it's time to chart it. And Dax agrees and off they go to follow that warp eddy. Right. So they got a little bit of something, but nothing solid yet. Back in the cave, Bashir sees that they, he's analyzed with his medical tricorder, I guess. He finds that they all have these biomechanical cells, these microbes in their cells,

and that they have died many times before. And then Bashir wants to go back to the shuttle to see if he can get the computer working to try to analyze. He wants to go back and Shela offers Bashir protection. So he sends a couple of guys with Bashir heading back to the shuttle. But did you notice the two protection guys that were walking? I think one of them was Tarek, who was on our show. No.

I think so. Yes. I froze it. I went back. It's kind of dark in the cave. Okay. Yeah, I have to go watch it again. You should get credits.

Yeah, Targ is one of our regular background guys. He ended up getting some lines on our show, but he was there in the entire seven seasons with us. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I noticed all of our standings throughout. Yeah. Yeah, this was, I think one of them was Tarak, the two bodyguards that went off with Bashir. Okay. But they continue in the cave.

Shell explains the history of this war that DeHenis had fought the Nol Ennis for generations. And they can't even remember how the fights. They don't know the reason why it started any longer. He's like land, water, it could have been anything. He doesn't have been anything. But he says now we fight for vengeance. So they're both driven by vengeance without any, they don't even know why it all started. So, yeah, no.

Kira gets really angry. Do you remember when she starts telling him they should fight differently? Oh, yeah. You've got to be more strategic and you got to do this and that. And Cisco tries to stop her, but she doesn't listen, which that surprised me. Yeah. She was like on a tear. But she was on a tear.

Well, you know, it doesn't surprise me because they don't have their, they're still working on their relationship, right? Their working relationship. But we're still discovering who all of us are, right? So that to me wasn't that surprising. And no, think about, too, that she'd just gone through her, like we're talking about like Jesus dying for her. Right.

And that Opaqa died in front of her. in front of her and came back. So that's like a lot of stuff to process. And now she's back alive and how are we going to get out of here? So she's understandably freaked out. She's freaked out, but she's taken it to the nth level in terms of she's being very aggressive right now, right? She's and then it's really Cisco that says like this is.

And she wants to fight. Yeah. Which is part of the story. She's like passionate about fighting. Right. Which is the through line. It's interesting because Cisco says this is not your, this, no, it wasn't her. No, Kyopaka said this is not your war, Kara.

Yeah, sorry. And that's accurate. But I'm just addressing what Robbie was just saying about, I'm surprised that she didn't listen to Cisco. Oh, okay. And I'm just offering that I think she wouldn't have listened to anybody. Anyone, yeah, it wouldn't have happened. Like all of us, you know, you've just went through a traumatic situation.

Yeah, of course. Makes sense. But she does listen when Kyle Apaka says, this is not your war care of or not your fight or whatever she says. And then she suddenly does. Shilat does defend himself. He says, like, Major, yeah, we used to defend ourselves better. We had perimeters, counterattacks, preemptive strikes,

but, you know, we realized it was all pointless. He goes, when you cease to fear death, the rules of the war change. You'll understand as the years begin to pass, Major. So he's basically saying, you guys are stuck here, just as long as we are, you're not going to be leaving. Well, Cisco does offer to transport them all off, right? Yes. He makes that offer in this scene.

And he just wants to ceasefire. long enough to wait for a rescue and then he'll help them get off and that Shela says, you know, I'll finally be able to die for the last time. And he really wants, he wants this, this cycle to end. And so he says he'll talk to the knoll about a ceasefire. He'll see if they are willing to talk. So it seems like Cisco's logic and, you know, they're starting to. Did this part remind you from the Lord of the Rings trilogy, the men from the mountain,

the troops of the mountain that were. the ghosts that could not finally find peace because they betrayed the king. Do you remember this scene? Oh, yes, yes, yes. Yeah. So they were like, you know, they were told, okay, if you fight with us, I will then absolve you of your crimes and you can now finally die. You can go to Valhalla, wherever you want to go.

Oh, wow. So this is kind of what I felt about this. Like, Shila was really like, I'll take it, you know, because he wants that. He's sick of this thing. They need relief. They want, yeah, they need a little bit of a peace. Well, speaking of relief, we go to the, The run about Rio Grande, because we need a little relief from this cave scenes.

These cave scenes are long. There's so long. Yeah. Every one of them goes on and on. And I was so glad to get back on the Rio Grande. Dark and cold. Yeah. Yeah.

Those were hard, those were hard scenes to shoot in there. To shoot. Yeah. And also, Terry, because the distance, the distance from our trailers and from your trailers to Stage 18 is like a, it's like a city, it's like a New York City block. It's like, what the? Yeah. You definitely get your 10,000.

steps in. Oh my God. And you remember when you forgot something in your trailer and you're almost 18, you're like, oh, well, then I'm, I guess I'll go without because you weren't going to walk back to go get it. You're done. Even the bathroom. It's like, oh, you better go to the bathroom before you go. Before. Yes. Yes. Because even the public restrooms on that street we were all on are far away from 18. Exactly. Yeah. They weren't even next to them. Nope. No. So we're back on the Rio Grande with Dax and O'Brien, and they're still trying to find them. O'Brien says, he's getting frustrated. He says, you know, this is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

And suddenly he goes, light bulb moment. He thinks he can make a magnet. How do you find a needle with the magnet? And that's when he invents this word, the magnetomer. He decides to make some kind of giant magnet tech thing called a magnetomer. A differential magnetomer. Okay. You know what I love, though?

These kind of moments are like when, What I love about acting when you feel like you're a little kid and you're making it up as you go along. Like, okay, you guys are the cowboys. I'm the Indian. And, okay, you know, that bush is about Rushmore. Yes. But for me, I love the energy in the scene.

I do. Your reactions to him explaining, you were very fun to watch. It was great. For me, though, Terry, because on Voyager, I had so much techno babble. When I watched DS9 episodes, I always, watch all of you guys when you're starting to say some techno bammal and i'm always like it's it's almost like i'm watching a sporting event right to the end just just just get to the end yeah so you know the feeling yes because when you had to repeat differential magnetamara you did it

i'm like oh yes terry did it yes she okay yes she did the triple sow cow it's almost like olympic ice skating she she completed it she landed it so that's yeah that's me yeah yeah it's a 10 this is where Okay, so this, Garrett, is where we cut back to the planet. And there's Bashir on underneath the console. Okay, sorry. Guys working on stuff, very sexy. That was a, yeah. Very sexy.

Team Bashir. Working with his hands. Team Bashir. Yes. Engineering. Smart. I like when he, and he gets it going. And then he stands up and he says, nice work, Julian, to himself.

Yeah, you should think yourself. Yes. It was very fun. Okay, so after Bashir fixes the computer and does his sexy manly work, we cut back to Cisco and Shela talking. Shella says that Zlango, the Nol N.S. leader, has agreed to a ceasefire, and he's going to discuss Cisco's proposals. And Kira is also there, and he says something about, well, you know, if your commander wants you to come along for security, I guess, you know, you can accompany us. and uh and cisco goes major caro will be staying here with a kai and shela's in response oh what a shame was so funny to me you like that one did you was so sarcastic and snarky and just dripping with

sarcasm it was great he's hilarious yeah she does that stuff spot freaking on all the time yeah yeah yeah yeah shella and cisco leave uh this is the the biggest point of i guess character development for Major Kira so far, I would have to say, because, yeah, yeah, I mean, this is basically Kai sort of telling Kira to look within, you know, and sort of like do an assessment of who she is. There's a bunch of shame happening for Kira. Oh, my gosh. I really felt for her. Oh, my gosh.

And really, the minute. Yeah, because it's all about. Well, she feels called out because Opa says, do you see yourself in these people? Yes. In these people, the fighting. Yes. You see it with the fighting people? And Kira's like, no, I don't know.

She's in total denial. She's like, it's not the same. It's not the same. I've been fighting for a valiant cause or a worthy cause, but these people are just fighting for nothing. You know, thanks. I appreciate that. Or a magnetamer cause, if you think. A differential magnanimitya cause.

I mean, these are causes that we fight for. We fight for these things. Okay. But, yeah, she's like in total denial that that's not who I am. am. It's a very relatable moment. But she's a shame, though. And we've made a mistake.

Yes. And we're being called out. And there's a part of our ego that's in denial that doesn't want to see it. And it's very relatable for all of us to be in that moment. Definitely. Most definitely. I mean, this is a huge teaching moment for everybody, you know, when you're watching this episode. When you're watching this episode and she's in denial.

And then whenever you guys out there listening, if you're in denial, have someone grab your paw your paw on your right it's always your left ear that has to be touched so kaiopaka wraps her paws your hands first yes yes or her ear or whatever you want to call it and kira just collapses sobbing yeah but see when she did that i number one i said good job to not visit her but then i started thinking back to the pilot and i started thinking uh now i want avery brooks to reshoot that scene where she touched his paw because i felt like nothing well not the cry but I feel like he should have had some sort of like, whoa, you know, moment. Like I'm saying, you're feeling my energy.

You know what's going on inside of me. And it kind of, it was almost like, it was a moment. Everybody has a different paw. I guess. It's true. And he did get it by the end. The whole point was he wasn't getting it. Yeah.

Right? And he was struggling. He was in, he was trapped in that time. And they kept saying it and saying it. Yes. And, you know, and we've all had those walls. I certainly have. I mean, decades of my life, relationships repeated where you keep making the same mistake.

And when you finally get the breakthrough, it's like, whoa, it's worth it. It doesn't mean you wasted any time. It's just how long it took you to get the information. What do they say? The universe keeps teaching you the same lesson until you're ready to learn it. Like, you're just going to keep. It's going to get the size of a billboard. It's going to knock you.

out and send you down a rabbit hole if you if you aren't ready to get it yeah yeah i just love this is the moment can we read this yeah opaca says don't deny the violence inside of you kira only when you accept it can you move beyond it kira says i've known nothing but violence since i was a child opaka says in the eyes of the prophets we are all children bejor has much to learn from peace kira says i'm afraid the prophets won't forgive me and opaka says they're just waiting for you to forgive yourself, which is, you know, it hit me hard when I was watching this. So I definitely, I started tearing up a little bit. Because we all have these, we all have these moments. You know, we all deal with these moments as human beings. Yeah, absolutely. Deny and you don't forgive yourself. And you're

so hard on yourself. And that's something that I think that everyone can learn from that you have to forgive yourself. I was just listening to this really interesting podcast from Mel Robbins. And, you know, liking ourselves, number one, that kindness to ourselves is the true first step to really healing all this stuff. It's not going to the spa or taking the walk. It's doing little acts of kindness to ourselves. Yes. But forgiving yourself accepting and not denying is the hardest thing to do, though. You see what I'm saying? When you're caught up in life like that and you're set in your ways and you're set in your thinking, it's almost, oh, God. It's like you do need someone to grab your paw.

You need someone to say, hey, stop. Yeah. Smell the roses. What are you doing? Because you can't see it without assistance, I feel. Like you have to, there has to be someone, a catalyst, a spark plug that actually gets you to go, whoa, what the heck am I doing right now? Exactly. To shake you out of the funk. Here's the thing, too.

If you remind, this is what I've been doing, if this is of any help. Yes. But I remind myself when they say to be your own best friend, that doesn't really help because it's not actionable. But when you think of it, like when you're trying to forgive yourself, imagine whatever act or thing you said or did, if your best friend had done it, how would you react? So then try to turn that on yourself and say, well, if I would forgive my best friend and have empathy and compassion for them, I certainly can do that for myself. For myself, yeah. And the more you practice it that way, it doesn't mean that you, you just can't change the past. So the only way to move forward is to learn how to forgive yourself.

And if the only way to learn how to do that is that you would do it for somebody else you love, then go there. Then go that way. Yeah, use that avenue to get to that point. As your catalyst, too. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. You're welcome.

Of course. Beautiful. Beautiful. All right. We go to the runabout Rio Grande next, and Dax and O'Brien are there. They're analyzing the probe results, but nothing. They don't really have anything. O'Brien's ready to give up when Dax suddenly sees something.

She has discovered that there is a moon, and there is, I guess, some signs from the moon. The hysteresis. The hysteresis, how did they say that? Hysterisis. The hysteresis curve. Yeah, hysteresis. Historesis curve. Did I say that?

You said it. You sure? The computer said it. The computer said it. Yeah. Never mind. I should be able to correct you if I said it. It must be in my body somewhere.

No. You know, Major Bear Roddenberry took that hurdle away from you. Yes. So she said hysteresis curve. So there is a zero zero one-two fluctuation. That's what she finds. Yep. She finds that fluctuation.

Dax realizes that it's a moon. and both of you guys are smart. And you know, you're putting all these pieces together. Smart Dax to figure out the moon and the fluctuation thing. I do like the pairing. Right. I love this pairing. I love to see you guys together a lot.

This is the first time. Thank you, me too. Am I right? This is the first time we see these two working together. Yeah, you're interacting off of each other. It's a good combo. It's a good combo. Agreed.

Thank you. Uh-huh. So they've discovered the hysteresis curve situation on this moon. We go down to. the moon and now we've got this giant torchlit gathering by the shuttle. Those are some big candles. Yeah. I mean, they're just like, who came up with those?

They're like outdoor heaters or something. I don't know. They look like giant circular. They go 20 feet in the air. Yeah, for that rag tag group of people, I'm surprised they came up with those awesome. They got some fancy torches. Yeah. That's for sure.

But they're by the shuttle. There's a fun moment where Bashir compares Cisco's plan to a jail break and Cisco gets very insulted and he tells, Cisco basically puts Bashir in his place. Like, don't teach me about the prime directive, mister. Yeah. And it's very funny. It is. To see Bashir trying to be.

He backtrack fast. Yeah. He's just like, he's just trying to make conversations. He is. He's so innocent. Every time he tries to get involved, everybody pushes him away, pooh-poo's them. Like, shh, quiet, go away. Yeah, okay. So after Bashir gets put in his place by Cisco, basically the two sides start arguing their case about this war. And, you know, they don't. Isn't there a second where you think, yay, this is all going to work out? Yeah, you kind of think Cisco is convincing them. He's trying to kind of, you know, mediate this, this lack of trust, this, yeah, talking about the history. And they're not.

all stuck in the old stories and how they can't trust each other. But you think that Cisco is going to reassure them and reassure this guy, Zlango and Shela and get them all together. Zlanco, did you notice? Slanko asks about the federation, right? And Shela's the one that sort of throws it away. He's like, what does it matter to us, slanko? And Zlanco's like, it matters to me. And Cisco said, well, the federation is made up of over 100 planets who have allied themselves for mutual scientific, cultural, and defensive benefits. And in the interwebs, This is one of the few, few occasions where the Federation is explained in all the Star Trek up. Oh, yes.

Like, we literally rarely ever see this. And this is one of the, you know, I think you can count on one hand how many times someone actually explains what the Federation is. Specifically. Concisely. Yes. Yeah. Wow. Right here.

Cisco says it. Well, he explains it, but it does not reassure them. And Zlango and Shela start threatening each other. Yeah. A hand-to-hand fight breaks out. Yeah. Because they said no weapons of like, you know, except for old school. The blades.

Yeah, the blades. So another Dennis Madeline special happens. Oh, yes. The hand-to-hand stuff. Lots of like, it was like. That was huge. Yeah. Yeah, what was that movie with the, the, where they were fighting, all the sword fighting was

super cool looking, the 300 or something? Yeah, the 300. The 300. This reminded me of like the DS9 version of the 300. The 300, yeah, stabbing. Yeah. Or Zill Thrones or something. It was very cool.

So you notice when the Nol Ennis guy, which was Tom Morga, holds the weapon up and throws it at Cisco and Bashir dodges, dies and knocks him out of the way, right? Yeah. So that was the weapon that he made. He made that from Scrake. He made that from Scrakeme-Govered that, yeah. So he literally grabbed like, you know, a toilet plunger, a round styrofoam ball for the bottom, and then this funky little top, you know, and he glued it together.

and that's what he threw at Cisco. That's funny. That was Tom Morgas special. Bashir flies through the air, knocks Cisco away from this weapon. Look at all this stuff he does. He's amazing. He's amazing. He's amazing.

He saves him and Bashir does say in the end after he saves him, he goes, I'm sorry, Commander, but I've discovered we can't afford to die here. Not even once. It's a great tagline. No, it's a great tagline because he could have ended with, we can't to die here, but he throws the, not even once in there. Yes. All right, we're back on the runabout.

Yep. And there's O'Brien and Dax, and they have found this moon. Dax does read life forms. Some appear to be human. At first, I was like, there's only one human in Cisco. And then I realized, oh, our hero, Bashir is also human. So, yes, a couple humans down there. And then suddenly the satellites

scan them like they did to Cisco and his gang. So O'Brien says, let's pull back. out of orbit for safety. Don't you guys send a probe? Wasn't there a probe sent out? Yes, he does in a minute. He reads that the damping field is blocking 99% of the transporter signal.

So that only leaves him 1% to work with, but he's going to try to see if he can transmit through that tiny window, the 1%. And we go back down to the moon. Bashir is explaining that the microbes will only work on this planet. If they're removed from this environment, everybody's going to die. No, Bueno. No, Bueno. So they're all stuck there, including Kai.

Yeah. Because Cisco asks about Kai. But before Bejir answers, suddenly, O'Brien makes a call, ask if it's safe, if they're safe. He says he can't beam him out quite yet, give him a little more time. And Cisco wants to talk to the Kai. Then we go to the cave, where they go and talk to Apaka. And she says to them that she's going to stay here. Yeah, they don't even have to say anything to her.

She says right off the bat. I'm staying. Yeah. She flips out about this. She's like, what? No, you're not staying. No. Wrong choice.

But she's like, no, no, I know my mission. My mission is to be here. My mission is to help these people finally find peace, right? And actually, if you consider Star Trek online, the game piece, they do find peace. In the game, Kai does broker peace between these two people. And she converts them to the Bajoran religion as well. Wow, in the game. That's fascinating, which is super cool.

I love Opaka's line in this scene where she says, they don't know how to do anything else but die. They've forgotten how to live. I love that, too. Yeah. It's so true, it's so relatable, like, you know, for people in, when we get stuck in a story or a repeated pattern that we forget how to truly live our life and live it with joy and live it with.

with optimism and hope. And we get stuck in this dark place. So I love, I love that line. It's good line. Me too. Yeah. We go back to the runabout. O'Brien,

he's trying to think about how to open up this hole, this 1% a little bit more to transport them out. Dax suggested a photon torpedo to destroy one of the satellites. O'Brien's like, yeah, but, you know, it's a defense network. It'll probably compensate for that. And that's when he sends the probe, I think. Yes, yes.

He thinks of the way. And he calls down, I got away. Yeah, we don't know. That's that we work together. That's what I like about working with him. Yes. You guys came up with a decision. He's an engineer.

I'm a scientist and we need each other to find the answers. Yes. Yeah. And there's no ego about it. Yeah. It feels that way. It feels like it's true teamwork. It's teamwork without ego.

You're right. Eagle list's teamwork. We go back to the moon. Bashir feels real compassion for the dilemma of these prisoners that they keep dying. He says he thinks he can reprogram the micros. So they wouldn't live with this repeating death story. forever, and they could finally die. He thinks he could do that before they leave.

And Shella gets really excited about that. And for a minute, you think, like, oh, Shela wants to, you know, to move past this, this vengeance thing. But instead, you realize he just wants to do this so he can kill all the null. Right. It's the ultimate weapon. Yeah. Still hasn't learned the lesson.

Oh, my goodness. And here's what was bothering me. They're fighting to be right. Yeah. I'm right. You're wrong instead of trying to see the other person's point of view. Yeah. Right. So that's never going to work. It doesn't work in any relationship. It doesn't work in love relationships or friendships. You can't do that.

You're just going to repeat the fighting if you have to be right. You're never going to get out of the loop. Yeah. Isn't there saying like, you know, you can have peace or you can be right, but you can't have both or something like that. Something like that. Yeah. Like, if you want to be right, then be right, you know, but it's going to, it's not going to be easy. And if you want to have peace, you've got to let go of being right sometimes. But you see that dynamic a lot in couples where they're fighting and it's always like. But you have to explain it.

You do. You can't just say, do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? That's not enough. You need to say, look, I need to understand your point of view. You need to understand mine so that we can come to a compromise. And I think that's where, you know, a lot of. communication gets disrupted in the world yeah because of that yeah well back on the runabout o'brien launches this probe it tricks their defenses it does work it opens up a

transporter hole and uh has our threesome down on the planet say goodbye the enemies just start fighting again yeah you're an explosion and yes yeah and opaca tells cisco that they're Paths will cross again. Their paw. Isn't this? Is what she said? Not path, but paw. She does?

Yeah. Our paw will. Yeah. The paw movement on the ear? Yeah. Our powers or whatever. Our spirits. Yes.

But your paw will cross mine again, not path. Yeah. Pa. Oh, interesting. I didn't catch that. I thought it was path. Oh. Yeah.

Interesting. Yeah. It's so crazy because every time you watch an episode, if you rewatch it again, You will find something that you did not see the first time. That's how every Star Trek episode is, always. Yeah, or almost every movie. Almost every time.

Yeah, I would say if I watch an episode six times, I will find six new things with it every time. Every subsequent watching, I find. How nice do you have so much abundance of time that you can watch the show six? How do you have time to watch anything six times? I can barely watch anything once. Yeah. Good Lord.

I'm a sci-fi nerd. I like watching things. over and over again. All right. So their paw is going to cross again, which I thought was interesting. She'll be back maybe. And I'm thinking how. How is she right?

And they beam out and they energize. And then you hear the fighting. It stays on a close up of Kayapaka. And you hear the fighting. And she just sort of looks off camera like, oh, gee, Jesus. The work I have to do. Yeah. And that's the end.

Yeah. So she's the end. I was, like, waiting for another scene. I don't know why. It felt like it felt abrupt to me. Yes. Yeah. Yes.

Agreed. And in the interwebs, they talked about, you know, all the different people. And they seemed so okay about leaving her. What's that? They were like, I know. Saw. Yeah. The innerwebs talks about, and originally there wasn't the Ennis and the Nol Ennis.

It was the Cardassians and a human, another humanoid group that were left on that planet. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And then they changed it. And then they were like, okay, so who do we have staying behind? and they had all these different, you know, recurring characters that were thinking of bringing along. And they said, oh, we'll pick the Kai because she's the least, you know, used or something like that of recurring characters. So it was just this random selection.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And that's how it happened. But it was kind of abrupt. It's sort of like, now you're done. She's now the mother Teresa of the moon people now. You know, she has to fix things there. Of the moon people.

But you know what? They do know where she is now, though. They do. They can go back any time. But it bothered me watching it because at the end it didn't, it felt like, how are they going to know if she's in trouble? They didn't even leave her a communicator. Couldn't have somebody just get tossed to her one of their bad comm badges?

Like, it just felt like, don't leave her just high and drive with no way to communicate. It should have like, Kai, take this. And he throws the comm badge to her. Yeah. Oh my God. I love, I just love your delivery just then. Yeah. Kai, take this.

Like something It's an anime Yes Oh, but shears everything He's even an anime character He's unbelievable He's 007 If you want to go even deeper

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Garrett, what is your theme or moral of this episode? It's from the scene with Kai and Kira, clearly. It's just, you have to learn to forgive yourself. You have to, you know, you have to learn to accept things

to be able to move on, to not deny. It's so easy. easy to deny what's right in front of you, right? And you have to say, okay, I acknowledge this. I acknowledge this. I accept that this is happening. I forgive myself. I am a human being that is always capable of making mistakes, and I'm not going to be that hard of myself. So that's my message for this episode. Nice. Terry, what about you? Well, I wrote, you can't enlighten someone who doesn't have self-awareness. And even then changing yourself takes an enormous

amount of of energy. I mean, even though now that Kira is enlightened, if she's going to change, which knowing this is the very beginning of the entire series, she still has a lot of struggles to follow through with that enlightenment and how we learn things isn't linear up. It can be, I'm doing great. Oh, shoot. I did terrible today, and then I did a little better the next day. And then so we have a journey to watch Kira Norese go on.

This is just the very first awakening of her moment. So even though we might have these awakenings, it doesn't mean that, oh, now I'm done. I'm enlightened. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Great. Yeah.

I agree with both of your themes. I mean, I wrote down, you have to face your past in order to move beyond it. Oh, I like that. Yeah, I think for everybody, for Kira, she has to look at who she has been and take responsibility for that. Take ownership of it, accept it. Yeah. Forgive yourself, but you can't move, you can't make any change until you face the past and deal with it. So, yeah.

Yeah, and that ownership is really painful. Yes. The acceptance and forgiveness, once you're on that path, it's a relief. Yeah. Yeah. Some good thoughts. in this. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion of the Battlelines episode with a lovely Terry Farrell and Robbie Duncan McNeil and myself. So join us

next time when we will tackle the episode The Storyteller. See you then. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. You know,