The Delta Flyers - Behind the Lines

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell, and Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Behind the Lines, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Armin Shimerman.Behind the Lines: Kira questions Odo's loyalty to the resistance cell when his relationship with a female Shapeshifter jeopardizes a mission.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts,Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, David Wei Liu, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jenny Cordina, Ryan Mahieu, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Sean T, Cindy Woodford, Tamara Evans, Shawn Robbins, & Francis Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, David Smith, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Robby Hill, Kevin Harlow, Jeff Allen, Londyn Henning & Risa EinsidlerAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, AJ Provance, Brian King, Maxine Soloway, E & John, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Jason Potvin, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jason Eberl, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, John Watker, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Cade Solsbery, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jay Furness, Jim Poesl, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Christina Chang, Kilian Trapp, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andrew Golden, Damien O’Donnell, Michael Bourguignon, Corey Evans, Patricia Welsch, Shannon Gregg Lucky, Ken Guthrie, Michelle Fox, & Jeff Schmedinghoff Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out ElevenReader and use my code PODCAST for a great deal: https://elevenreader.io* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/tdf for a great deal: https://www.quince.com* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/tdf for a great deal: https://www.quince.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dex, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armin Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. So I'm just copying you, Robert. Your whole little pacing that you did. We are out of Spacey on that one. See, we're on this thing, Armand. Yesterday we were recording with Terry, and because she was ill, we decided to juz it up and sort of entertain her and be funnier to sort of take, you know. And it's continued to today.

So as long as you don't make me ill. Yeah, you might be ill. Here's the fundamental thing. Armand, I want your opinion on this. So as actors, as people in show business, Part of our job is to tell authentic stories and be real and be honest and speak from the heart and all those things. But part of our job is to entertain.

And I often struggle with this as a director sometimes because I see actors doing a scene and they're so self-focused that they're not entertaining. They're not actually making the scene interesting to watch. Or you'll see the opposite. you'll see someone who's trying really hard to entertain. And you're like, yeah, but you're missing the heart of the scene. What are your thoughts on that? I very much agree that an actor must be both an educator and an entertainer at the same time.

Yeah. I've often said to my students in class, you may be feeling it, but I'm not. And if I'm not feeling it, the audience isn't feeling it, and therefore you're not accomplishing. You may be up there on stage having a wonderful time, but he's not doing anything for me. and I paid for the ticket. Exactly. So it's up to the director. Sometimes the actor can't tell.

Sometimes the actor can't tell. And that's why we have directors. The director needs to say to the actor too much of that or a little more of that and find the right narrow path for the actor's performance. Yeah. It's a collaborative process. And you need both the actor and the director. The actor has to provide it and the director has to sculpt it.

Yeah. It makes me think of like musicians, you know, like jazz musicians or something, you know. There is some value in the artist sort of getting lost, Miles Davis getting lost and a trumpet solo. That's a different medium. You can't, you, this is not speaking from the heart here. Yeah, interesting. At least for a stage actor who has to reproduce that performance somewhat eight times a week. Yeah.

You can't get lost. You can get lost where you don't know what's happening. I think I've talked about that in another podcast. But that can happen. But for the most part, you must stay in control of your performance. Otherwise, it's not fair to the production, one. It's not fair to the other actors. One of the most experimental and moment-to-moment actors I ever saw perform was Max Wright.

Max Wright, for those of you who don't know who he is, a wonderful stage actor, also done a lot of film, but primarily a stage actor. And Max Wright would just go off on tangents on stage, and they were lovely to watch. They were incredible to watch. But I had a friend doing a play with him, and he said, I had the next line after Max's line, and I didn't know where he would be on stage. And it was a three-tier stage. There was the stage level, there was a level above the stage, and there was a level above that.

And Max could be in any one of those three levels at any given time. And Billy would say, I don't know where he's going to be. Wow. So it has to be some sort of control. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting.

Like, I know that, and jazz music is a very different medium to play devil's advocate a little bit. If Miles Davis goes off on a solo and gets lost in it, part of the responsibility of the rest of the musicians is to stay with him, stay in that zone with wherever he's going. Right. If it's a solo, yeah, I suppose you can do that. But you have a responsibility to the other people on stage. Yeah, it's an interesting. I mean, even with this podcast to bring it back to like our being silly at the top of this. Like I think about that sometimes because we talk about, you know, we talk about our memories or our opinions or our thoughts. Are we getting lost too much sometimes in our own like, you know, nasal nasal, navel gazing? Navel gazing. Yeah, it depends on the audience member, whether that's something.

something they are entertained by or not. If you were talking to NAA right now, she would advocate getting lost in a performance. I've heard her say this several times. She wants to get lost. And it helps her a great deal. And God knows she gives great performances. So I'm not saying it's wrong.

I'm just saying in a different medium, in the theater, which I'm more familiar with, you can't really do that as often as you can on camera. And because on camera, if you get lost and it doesn't work, the director says take two. Yes, that's true. That's true. You've always got another take.

All right. Interesting. Thank you for sharing those thoughts. Yeah. We love that. All right. We have some birthdays. Yes, we got to talk about.

Yeah. Nicholas Albano. What? Nick, it's your birthday on July 14th. Happy birthday, Nick. Happy Bastille Day, Nick, and happy birthday. Is that Bastille Day, the 14th? Yeah, Bastille the 14th.

Oh, my goodness. Wow. Happy, happy, happy, happy Bastille and happy birthday day to you. Happy birthday day. I just said a new thing. Also, we have Debbie D. Debbie D on July 19th. What a wonderful day.

Debbie D.D. was born. Happy birthday, Debbie. Happy birthday, Debbie. Happy, happy, happy, happy, happy, happy, happy birthday. What he said. Happy birthday, Debbie. Debbie D. What are they said. Deputy.

Weren't there like Debbie? Yeah. Little Debbie snack cakes when we were young. Oh, I love. loved little Debbie, the oatmeal with a cream inside with my favorite one. Individually wrapped. You knew they were fresh. They were fresh.

No one had tampered with them. It was wonderful. Yes. Little Debbie's were big when I was growing up in the South. And that was a popular one. And then when I moved to New York, I discovered entomins. Oh. Antimans.

It's hard to pass the Antimans. Intimans got so big. they started shipping to California everywhere. So Entemines is massive. Poetry time. Yes, it is. Let's get some poetry, a little sophistication, a little high class for this podcast.

Yes, highbrow poetry. Let's go. Highbrow, here we go for my poem for behind the lines. When Odo linked up in the goo with the founder, he had quite a breakthrough. He came back all Zen, said, solids are just my friends, then spaced out for an hour or two. You made up for yesterday.

Oh, this is so much. Oh, on point. I love it. Thank you. Yeah. Well, you said, you know, because you had comedy. Remember that? You didn't, you sort of, you rhymed wharf and coarse.

You were like, okay. Oh, that's true. I'm going to be kind of in the neighborhood. This one, friends and Zen, which just was perfect. No, thank you. Thanks, man. Excellent. Thank you to the rhyming.

Dictionary Online. Oh, my gosh. Rimezone. It's called Rhymesone. I'm just going to tell everybody. I go to Rhymzone. I find the matches. Rhym zone is great.

It's got all the word. Isn't that what flowers are made of? Rhyme Zones? Rhyme Zones. Something like that. Rhymezone. Cowboy. That's you.

You're the Rhymnson. That should be your gamer tag, your name. Rhymzone Cowboy. It should be Robbie's gaming. and moniker. All right, my haiku for behind the lines. Here we go. Cisco promoted

resistance plots for mayhem. Odo links, Rom caught. Very nice. Very nice. Thank you so much. Very highbrow. It made me feel good when I said that. It just, it was succinct

and it was done. It was there. That was a clean one. A clean one, yes. Not as highbrow as etymology is going to be. Hold on. Hold on. Before we get into etymology, let me just ask a military question. Yes. Would Cisco being made an adjunct be a promotion? Or would it be just moving from one side to another side?

Not going up, not going down. A lateral move is what I'm trying to say. I feel like it's like getting vice president job. It's kind of like you're sort of a pretty big deal there. Adjutant. And it's adjutant instead of adjunct. I think you were looking for adjutant. Adjutant.

Agitant. You have to adjutant. Adjutant. It's like. Adjutant. It's so much for the homology. I can't say the word. ADJU.

I think T-A-N-T or something like. It's almost like adjunct. That's what I said. Mixed with agitated. That's what you said. Agitent. Agitent. Adjutant.

Adjutant. Adjutant. Adjutant. Adjutant. Excuse me. I bless you. You see, it may not be a promotion. It may be just the seeds.

No. It is a promotion. motion, guys. He's the, he's the right-hand man to the commanding officer of the whole shabang. He's like, Alexander Hamilton. Yeah. You're the right-hand man. Mm-hmm. So I would say, yeah, you think it's a lateral move, Arm? I don't. I don't know. That was my question. Oh, I didn't know whether it was a lateral move or not. No, I think he may, he got step up. I think it's a move up. I think, and it seemed like he didn't have a choice. Like when you're in the military, you're ordered, this is your orders. You're going to be this now.

You're going to do this. That's you follow orders. And of course, in the script, it's subtly hinted that he didn't like the choice either. Yeah. He didn't like the promotion. Okay. Now. Now, how about hemorrhousy.

Highbrow etymology. Okay. So, this may take a while. Yeah. Okay. I started with the phrase. This is something that Terry did when we were all together. Oh, I should do that.

It's not going to talk about the individual words, but talk about the phrase that with the title itself. Oh, yeah. The whole, yeah, the meaning of the whole thing. Yeah. So I looked up behind the lines. It's an area which is militarily occupied, but where no fight takes place, where the Army provides support services to combat forces as well as military management of occupying forces. So in the case of this episode, behind the lines would be the station, Deep Space Nine.

Again, where the Army provides support services to combat forces. as well as military management of occupying forces. So I would say that would be the station. Now, going to the individual words, behind. It's from the old English, the Hinden, or old high German hintana. These are the root words for our present word behind. As an adverb, it means in relationship to an object in motion, in a place whence those to whom the references made have departed,

remaining after the others have gone. And it was first used in 900 AD. So years in the Middle Ages. Second definition. In the position, condition, or state in which a person or thing has left, i.e., the riches, he left all behind. That's an example from the dictionary. Third definition.

In reserve, kept back, not yet brought forward or mentioned, i.e. still to come. Measure for measure has a quote which says, we'll show what's yet behind. That's the example for that definition. A fourth definition. This as a preposition, before I was talking about an adverb, now I'm talking as behind as a preposition. In a place left by one who has gone on, i.e. She has resolved to stay behind me for a few days. So that's it as a preposition. So it's both of adverb and a preposition. Now, the second word, lines from the old English, Lynn, first used in 975.

The word means the, this is a strange definition. The word means the fiber of flax in Middle English. In old English, it's more like Lynn or L-I-G-N-E. I can't pronounce it. G-N-A-L-G-N-E? L-G-N-E? Oh, yeah, maybe. Okay.

A chord or string first used in 1,000 AD or an appointed lot in life or a thread like mark line if you underline something. That's a lot of history of that, of that phrase, those words. Yeah. But also behind being a preposition, being an adjective, just, you know, all over the place, right? Adverb, excuse me. I mean, I can't off the top of my head give you a word that's both an adverb and a preposition. I'm sure there are ones, but I don't know what they are. So this is sort of unique in that way.

So a true study in etymology. Yes. Definitely. Thank you, Armin. Thank you. Yes. Next up, we have a Patreon submitted poetry winner. This is a limerick.

Oh, I love this. So I get to say the limerick. Yes, and I get to. Yeah, nice. All right. Limerick. A switcheroo. Limerick by Amy T.

Here we go. Secrets slip from a drunken Damar. Thanks to Quark and a bottle of Canar. Odo is enticed and rum is a sacrifice. So much for getting rid of the gem Hidar. Good job, Amy. I love it. Nice, Amy.

Very nice. Very impressive. Yes. Taking on a limerick can be challenging. Yes, it is. No small feat. All right, here's our haiku from our patron submitted poetry. This is an honorable mention.

Hiku by Charlie Faulkner goes like this. Odo drifts away Linking clouds His sense of self Kira stands alone Nice He focused right on to the Kira-Odo relationship here

Yeah And that and haiku Yeah it's nice Good job Odo does drift away He gets very spacey there Oh my gosh does he ever Oh my goodness

Okay Yeah So much to talk about in this episode Let's just go with the basics here With written by Renee Escheria Lovar Burton is directing this episode. Guest stars Jeffrey Combs as Wayune,

Marco Limeo is Gaut, Max Gredentchik is Rom, Aaron Eisenberg is Nog, Casey Biggs is Damar, Barry Jenner as William Ross, Salome Gens as the female changeling. The original title for this episode was Life During War Time. Do you like that title?

It's kind of lame, to be honest, Life During War Time. Life During War Time is a play on Broadway. Oh. Who was the playwright? Do you remember, or you were probably not in New York? This is the first time hearing of a hearing of this play. In the 80s.

Oh, my goodness. And I remember there was a role for a young man. It was a, it had a Vietnam returning vet storyline. So you auditioned for it then, is that what you're saying? I wanted this play so badly. Oh, my God. And I came down to like that last couple people. Oh.

So, you know, everyone knows this is a basically a six episode arc, right? But this of this whole arc here, this episode was considered. the most difficult of the six to put together, as Ronald D. Moore explains. Quote, by the time they got around to shooting rocks and shoals, René Ischavario was working on the next episode behind the lines. And that's where we all got really confused. End quote. Similarly, Ira Steven Baer points out, quote, poor Renee, he was really behind the eight ball

on that one, going around to each of us asking, what are you doing? What are you doing? What are you doing? He was suffering and it was a very painful. But ultimately the show worked. It's amazing that it turned out as good as it did because usually when shows have that painful of a birth, they usually show it on screen, end quote. So there is a lot of turmoil in the beginning parts of doing this episode. Originally the B story of this episode was based on the 1930 Howard Hawks film, The Dawn Patrol.

A major theme of the movie is that of a reluctant commander being forced to send untrained troops into the field. and the moral turmoil it causes him. However, when Ira read Eshavaria's script, he felt that it didn't work because the B story had become too important and felt like it should be the A story. As such, Esherrera dropped the story entirely and replaced it with a B story involving Dax.

She is given command of the USS Defiant and discovers that she loves combat. According to Eshavaria, quote, she gets into it too far and becomes Patton. General Patton, end quote. Neither Bear nor Eschervaria himself was happy with this story, however. Ultimately, quote, we reinvented it yet again, making it a much smaller, quieter little story where you're just asked to put yourself into Cisco shoes and see how hard it must be for him to have to sit back and send his friends to war, end quote.

So a lot of shifting and moving around before this episode finally, you know, started filming. Odo's original role in this episode was also quite different from how it ultimately turned out. In the Eschervaria's first draft, Odo becomes so involved with the female changeling that he allows his need for order to consume and blind him. And he actively tries to end the resistance movement. Indeed, yeah, I know, isn't that crazy? Like, he stops it. Indeed, he is the one who arrests Rom. Isn't that crazy?

So he's the one that grabs him out of there as he's trying to, okay. All right, continuing. Neither Eshavaria nor Bear was happy with this turn in Odo's character, however, and ultimately Eshavaria decided to alter the script so that Odo commits, quote, a sin of omission, not a sin of commission, the old Catholic maxim, a sin of omission. Out of Odo's carelessness and his obsession with the female shapeshifter, he doesn't deliver on what he's supposed to, and when he's confronted with it, he realizes that he doesn't really care that much.

It doesn't seem important, end quote. Yes, it did seem unimportant. Like he became zen and it didn't matter anymore. Yeah. You know what? It's like he went through yoga teacher training in a way. You know, where he was able to realize the things. Or he was high on drugs.

I don't know which was. There is that feeling in watching the episode that he's high on something. As if the female changeling hypnotized him, mesmerized him or drugged his something. Yeah. We immediately go to that it's something that she did. And of course, it is something that she did. But it is the link itself that it is a drug. The link itself is a drug.

And she introduces him, the first one is free. She introduces him to the drug. And he's fascinated with the drug. Oh, he loves it. And, of course, he's been trying for four or five years to find out who he really is. And now he's finding out. I feel like this episode for me, I learned more about changelings than maybe I have in five seasons before. Yeah, I mean, I love the metaphor of the drop in the ocean.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I am the ocean. And when I'm in the link, I'm just a drop in the ocean. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Very good writing.

Yeah, very good writing. And very kind of the metaphors and the analogies they used to explain for Odo to understand who he was helped me to understand in a whole new way. Yeah. In a very concrete way. It was, yeah, very good writing. I will say, I think this episode has a lot of good writing in it. But it isn't, in my mind, plot-driven. No.

It's more about character study than it is about plot. Not that that's a bad thing. It's just something that usually we get a very strong plot. I don't see either in the A story or the B story as strong a plot as we're used to. It doesn't mean it's bad. I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying that's my feeling about it. Well, I also feel like your show is shifting.

DS9 is shifting from these standalone episodes into very heavily serialized stuff. Which is what people didn't like our show. This is exactly what people did. If I miss one, I don't know where I'm at. You know, how can I watch this show? Yeah. And the syndicates who bought the show because it's a syndicated show. They didn't like it, I'm sure.

They didn't like it at all. Yeah. And the studio didn't like it either. Well, I think what you sensed in terms of plot or lack of plot or soft plot or whatever, was this kind of unashamed embracing of, we're going to do a serialized show now. This is going to be ongoing stories. We're going to, we don't need a plot. We don't need it, you know, as strong of a plot to sort of drive a story that wraps up in 43 minutes.

We're not going to, you know, this story is going to keep going, so we don't have to rush. And I will also point out, and this involves the two of you as well, that Voyager had just really started. And so all eyes were on Voyager and we were left to our own devices. Yes, you've mentioned that. Yes, for sure. All right, let's dive into this episode. We start off with a captain's log, start 8-1-1-4-5.3. The Defiant has been operating out of Starbase 375, conducting forays into Dominion-controlled space. While the missions have taken a toll on my people, they remain determined to do whatever it takes to win this war, as do I.

That's what Cisco says. I just want to say I was reminded in this episode of Starbase 375, how it was inspired by the original series, the Tribbles episode, that Starbase with the bubbles. I just love that they sort of designed your star base with some of that similar aesthetic. Yeah, it's great. It's so cool. It's really great. It was like a modern version. I loved it.

Yeah. Yeah, we go into the mess hall. Nog has got a impromptu bar going. Why? My question is, twice, Nog serves drinks in this. And I'm going, why? Why? Because he can.

Because he does. And he does. And he's trying to help out. That's what I'm looking. No, no, no. That's not the reason. That's not what I'm aiming at. What?

Why is it assumed that the Ferengi serves the drinks? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There could have been somebody else serving the drinks. And Nog could have. said, yeah, I got that. I got that on the black market.

I'm still a Ferengi. That's true. Agreed. Although he does, his status, we're reminded of his low status as a cadet by Miles in this episode, I think, where Miles, when they're talking about captain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Knox says something like, you mean, I could be called Captain. Musk's like, if it gets to you, by the time it gets to you, there's nobody around to

call you that. So we're reminded of his lower status. as a cadet, not because he's a Ferengi, but because he's a cadet. And the cadet is going to be made to do all the... So maybe that has something to do with it? Yeah. Yeah. I don't worry.

Yeah, I get your point. It rankled me that he was serving. Well, yes. You feel there's some bias against Ferengi's right there. Yeah. I get it. It's very valid. You have a very valid point.

Yeah. Well, he's got some Sorian brandy somehow in the black market. Reminds everyone, you know, he's still a Ferengi. Miles brings in this tube. It looks like a barangy. bazooka or something. You know what it looks like? It looks like a skinnier scuba tank is kind of what. It's like a heavy. What exactly was it? Okay. I never really got what it was. That is a power cell for the phaser array. So it powers up the phasers. But evidently when you use it up, you just discard it.

And I'm going to say, I'm going to say right now, everybody, now we're so, so, we're always thinking at the forefront of our minds about recycling and all this kind of stuff. And I keep thinking, really, they just throw these power cells away. I felt like it should have been rechargeable. So that was kind of weird when I saw it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a power cell is a battery in a sense. That's what you're describing.

A power cell, right? Right. But it's disposable, though. I mean, once it's used up, you just toss it, which I thought, wow, that's what a waste. And in the future, shouldn't they, all these be, you know, bring them back and recharge them or something? I have my AA and AAA batteries with my rechargeable little machine.

in my bar and I recharge my triple A's and double A's because you go through those with all kinds of things. Remote controls or all kinds of stuff around the house. Yep. Good to have rechargeable batteries. And you're saving money. You're not buying new batteries. You keep using the rechargeable ones. Yes.

You're not throwing the old ones in the garbage. Exactly. Exactly. But for the sake of this storyline, you need them to be disposable so they can kind of put them up. Well, there's almost like trophies or like trophies or just memorials of we survived this battle. we survived that battle. Yes, yes. Cisco gives a very big speech, very inspiring moment, very nice ceremony, and the Admiral Ross arrives.

He wants to take a walk. He wants to take a walk. They take a little walk and talk. And we learned that Starfleet has found out how the Dominion always knows their moves before they arrive to attack. Before Starfleet shows up, it's like the Dominion has, you know, ESP or something. They've got a leg up. Mm-hmm. And Ross says that they've discovered a massive censor.

hidden in the Argollus cluster. So Ross gives him, Admiral Ross gives Cisco this intelligence report and says he wants a plan on his desk at 0800. So, um, everything occurs on this show at 0800. That's so funny. I mean, I will say, like, 0800 for me is a little late. 8 o'clock, I'm up much earlier than that.

And in the military, don't think it notoriously very early, like super early, but I want to like 5 in the morning. It'd be funny if I'd be get that attack plan on my desk by 1930, like 7.30 p.m. or like way late. No one ever says that. You're right. It's always 0800. What happens next? We go to Quarks. Oh, this is such an interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Let me talk about this one. This is really interesting because you have Kura on the second level. And she's narrating this entire thing as if she's, you know, she's in the theater play or something. The spotlight's up on her and the Mezzanine. What did you think of this? What did you guys think of this? I thought it was cool because it was so different from anything we have ever seen on this show.

And there's been, Armine, your take. Did you like the take? I did think it was different and therefore I liked it. But I thought several times in this episode, instead of showing you what's happening, we hear about it. Somebody tells you about it. This was the first of a handful of those. It was very different and therefore interesting because usually the story. story isn't told through a narrator.

Right. And that I found to be very interesting. And that was, it's a nice way. It's, you know, the writers took a different tact. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, they did allow some of the dialogue to float up that you could hear. That's right.

From DeMar saying, well, throw your entire race off of the station or something like that about when it gets, you know, the fan. And I watched my silent stuff with Casey with DeMar. And I'm wondering, was that scripted? Were we told what we had to do? I don't remember in order to accommodate the narration. Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, you would have read the script and saw everything that... Yeah, but I promised you, I didn't memorize her narration.

No, obviously, yeah. It just seemed like we were indeed doing a scene down there, but there was no script. There was no dialogue. Robbie, could LeVarben get kind of off camera going like, okay, so now he's going to ask about the blah, blah, blah, blah. Could he be? It didn't seem like that because there weren't abrupt changes. It seemed to flow. It seemed to flow.

I feel like that was improvised. What I thought it was interesting, but I mostly was thinking, why are they not shielding themselves in the upper level and hiding a little bit? Because anybody could just look up casually, oh, well, what the hell is Major Kira doing up there? You know, so she could have been linked to the whole, you know, loss of the pad. That would have helped, I think. Yeah, just grounding it and why would?

I mean, this is a question I often ask actors when we're rehearsing a scene. Yeah. Rather than telling them what I think and saying, I think your character would blah, blah, blah. I ask a question, why would your character do this? Why would your character narrate from up on the balcony? Why? Because you feel like you're in control. You're having fun.

You've set them up. You're watching it all play out. Your puppet masters. Enjoyed that. Yeah. But it didn't seem like the why would your characters be doing this weird thing, this unusual thing, right, had been ever discussed. It seemed out of character is what it seemed to me.

You know, as I've been listening to you guys wisely discussed this, it occurred to me in reference to what you're just saying, Robbie. Yeah. I don't know if you guys play chess. I play chess. Yes. I used to be pretty good at it. Mm-hmm. If you're really good at it, you can look at the board and know what the next six moves are going to be.

Yeah. If I do this, then he has to do that, and then I have to do this, and then she has to do that. And you know what the... That could have been the way to do this. That would have been great. Okay, so she says at the very top of the scene, he's a, he's a, tomorrow is a character of routine or something like that. Creature of habit. Yeah.

Yeah. So we start by making this move, and he sort of has to go that way. And then Quark has to do this. Mm-hmm. And then the Jam Hadar have to do that. And so you're waiting. What you're doing is as the six moves are evolving, yes, indeed. It's just the way I thought it would go.

Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. That would have worked too. That would have been great. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I feel like there was not, there was sort of this generalized idea that they're going to narrate from afar. And the writers wrote out the narration without thinking about how humans or characters would

actually, why would they do this? Why would they say that? And the actors. Why would the writers do that? And the second time I watched the episode, I was thinking about that. Why this narration? Yeah. And I thought, because the script was too long.

Yes. And they needed to get a lot of plot, a lot of pipe, as we call it in showbiz. It's called what? Pipe. It's pipe. It's just information. Lay the pipe. That's going to lay the pipe.

Got it. That's going to get the story from here to there. Yeah. And I thought that's why they did this. is that in order to cut down on the time of the episode. 100%. All right. Well,

we do learn through this narration that Dumar's frustrated. He can't find his pad. The pad has all this info about the white is running out. And they may have to make a poison with the remaining white that will kill the Gem Hadar. Because if the Gem Hadar run out of white, they're going to kill everybody. So they can't have that. So they may have to actually kill the Gem Hadar that are here. So that's all on the pad.

Jim Hedar arrives with a pad in his hand. They start arguing, Damar, and then Quark tries to break it up. A big fight ensues. There's even a backbreaker from the WWE. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, you heard it. His back broke. Wonder if the British Film Commission, you know, cut that sound out maybe.

It was very, very WWE to me. Yeah, it was. It was a, what do you call it, a suplex? Something like that, pile driving suplex. It was, wow. But there are casualties. I mean, people are getting phased and stabbed and, but let's also remember. Somebody gets thrown over a bar.

Yes, that's like, okay, let's talk about the minute that DeMarb grabs quark and just tosses him, I thought yet another abuse of quark. And I was like, you know what, just shove him out of way. Just push him out of the way. You don't have to throw him over the bar. He's not Jim Hedar. He's quark. So it was a little unnerving for me to see you get thrown right there.

It was not unnecessary. When did DeMarr get to be that strong? Exactly. He became super. man all the sudden, right? But we also have to remember, it's Rom who pilfered the pad. Rom has amazing abilities. He can fix things and he can also pilfer people's goods. And he's the one that placed it outside the Gem at our quarters. Yes, and Kira disappears into the shadows. Very film noir of her to back up into the...

The film noir blocking. I love it. Yes. It was a little theatrical, the whole thing for my taste. I didn't quite buy that part of our story. But it was a lot of pipe. They had to get out. They had to throw a lot of pipe down. Yes. But to give it a little bit of due, it was very nice to look at. I liked where they set the camera and how all the action was happening down below.

Yeah. That usually doesn't happen on our show. We do get those sort of angles sometime. But I thought LeVar was right to put it where the camera where he put it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He got to see a much larger...

He didn't write the script. He only has to shoot the script. Right. Right. But with that distance and that wider angle, you get to see a lot more than normal, which is different. For sure. Come back from our opening titles and we're still at Quarks. Dukot is mad at Duma.

He is mad, mad, mad, mad. Yeah. Duma says, they attacked me. And Dukot's like, I don't care what they did. You should never let the situation get out of hand. And then Wei Yun comes over. And Wei Yun says, they have to make everyone feel like they're something. still allies. He says, smile.

Well, Yehry can pull off the smile. And then he tells Dukot to smile. He'll keep smiling. Yeah. In my notes, I wrote down, Wiyun does his best Mr. Rourke impersonation from Fantasy Island. Smiles, everyone. Smiles. So that's what that was. Very funny. When, this is a tangent, when Kitty auditioned for a Vorda in the next season, But just she went to Jeffrey and she says, what do you think the essence of a ward is?

What should I bring to the audition? He said, smile. Just smile. Mr. Rourke. Well, Wayune smiles, says Dukot should smile. They should make everyone think they're, you know, they're still getting along. They're still getting along. And then Odo comes over and suggests, hey, maybe you should get your men out of here and separate them before there's another fight.

So they do. DuCott takes his men out. off first and then Wei Yun with his smile goes over and starts to take his his men out and I like the fact that Mark stops smiling about three quarters the way through that scene

and then didn't smile anymore even as Wayune is saying we have to smile he just you can that's Mark being very clever about saying okay I did it for a little while but I'm not sticking with this yes yes I'm not his puppet

that's right I'm not going to play his games And there is a little tension between whose men are going to get sequestered and Wayne makes it clear both, both sides. Yeah. You also see Odo's not really happy with life on the station right now. Right. You know, he pops in and says, get your men. You should separate him. But he's very grumpy.

A little extra grumpy, in my opinion. Yeah, he should get thrown over a bar. Then I can understand him being. Exactly. Okay. Next up, we are in Admiral Ross's office on Star Base. Is it Star Base 375? 375. 375 with the bulbous parts to it that Robbie loved so much. Okay. So we're in Admiral Ross's office with Cisco. Cisco has his attack plan to take out the massive sensor array over in the Argollus cluster. And his idea is instead of going around it, we're going to go through it. Admiral Ross is like, yeah, that's going to shred your ship to pieces because of the gravimetric forces that you're going to be encountering. And Cisco's like, no, no, it's good. It's good.

It's good. We got Dax, and Dax can actually navigate around all the gravometric distortions. Dax is a science officer. She is not a pilot. She's not a pilot, but she knows the science. A pilot. Wasn't one of her hosts, a point we went through this. It was a test pilot or something. One of her, one of her prior past lives was a pilot, so she does know how to pilot because of that person. You know, I could probably not drive a Model A because the mechanism would be so different than what I'm used to. fine. I mean, there are a lot. That's what I mean. I get you. I get you. So very funny.

But then again, she's captaining the ship. So there may be another navigator on that, on the defiant, right? It's possible. It's possible. But as the science officer, she knows her way around gravimetric distortions. That's the key point. Yes. That's the key point. Right. Yeah. So Ross is willing. He's game. He's like, let's go for it. Let's give it a shot. It's obviously very risky. That's what Barry. has said. That's what Ross has said. Forgive me, I only think of Barry

is Barry and not as Ross. He's so good, by the way. Oh, my God. He's so good. And a loomberingly man who unfortunately has passed away. He says to Cisco, this is really very risky. And Cisco says, I'm willing to take that chance. And I thought, really,

shouldn't you discuss it with the others? He says, it's a gamble, but I'm willing to take it. I'm willing to take it. I'll take it. And I'm thinking there are probably anywhere from 10 to 20 people on that ship who are risking their lives because he's willing to take that ship. No group discussion needed. We go to the security office next.

Odo's there. Kira shows up. Odo is mad. He is very mad because she made this plan without his approval, basically. The whole pad, steal the pads, set them up. And she's like, but you were in there. You were in there and then you left. You said you didn't like the idea, but you left and we kept talking about it and you didn't stick around.

So they're kind of getting into a little bit of a bickering there. This is like a couple's bicker, you know, to me. It's like it's literally like a husband and wife going a little, you didn't tell me about this plan. That's the overall that I saw here. I mean, I would, if I were refereeing this argument, I would say you both have a point. Yeah. However, Kira, if you guys came to an agreement of a plan, at the end when he wasn't there, you should have filled him in before you move forward.

You should have said, great, we all agree. Let's just fill Odo in because it's a small resistance group and everybody should be a part of it. So they both have a point, but they should have filled him in. He's probably slightly more right. And if it goes awry, the security officer should be aware of it. So he'll know what to do for plan B if it goes awry. Also, Odo misunderstands, Kira. He thinks that she's questioning his loyalties, which he's very upset about in this scene.

And he's like, are you questioning me? Answer me. And she's like, no, I'm not. This is not what it's about. So, and right when that happens, guess who shows up? Female Founders. Female shapeshifter comes in. Salomegians.

Yeah, Salomey Jens. And Salome Jens, is she like French or Dutch or something? I felt like there's an accent in there, no? I don't hear that. I think that's a theater training. Yeah. It almost in one of the scenes, I was like, maybe it was the makeup with the theater training, you know, kind of. She is enunciating.

Yeah, she's enunciating a little bit. She's American. Yeah. Wow. Unlike the Vedic that we saw, Robbie, with that heavy accent. Remember the Vedic that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She was French.

Yeah. She was French. Okay. While we continue after a little break, the founder asked Kira for some privacy. Kira leaves. The founder says that she was trapped in the alpha quadrant when the wormhole got mine. She couldn't get out. And she's getting kind of lonely.

She wants to connect with people over, you know, like herself. But Odo initially is still mad that she turned him into a solid. And she says, well, that was the punishment. You killed one of our own that fit your crime to take away your shapeshifting, make you a solid. But she says now, you know, now that you're back to being a shapeshifter, now that you've got your powers back or whatever, you're capable of so much more than fighting a war that isn't even your war. These aren't your people. And she says, you know, we should spend time together.

And then you'll understand. I wrote down smooth pickup line. She ain't found her. She's coming on hot, isn't she? Yeah, she is. She really is. Oh, my goodness. So next up, we're back in Admiral Ross's office on Star Base 3-75.

And guess what? Cisco is getting some news. Ross is talking about Captain Bennett. Captain Bennett is, Ross's adjutant is being promoted to or being put in charge of the seventh tactical wing. But now there seems to be an open space. an open, you know, there's a job opportunity here. And Cisco's like, well, who's going to fill in the role of, you know, what Captain Bennett was doing? And Cisco finds out he is the one.

He is the one who gets promoted. So he is now the new adjutant to Admiral Ross. And he would not be doing the Argos mission. And they will send Commander Dax to leave that mission. Commander Dax. Now shouldn't she be asked whether or not she wants to take? Yeah. That's one thing that that landed for me in this episode more than it normally does is that when you're in the military, you don't get a choice.

You're told now you're taking this ship. You're going on this mission. I mean, that is, it was the realities of war that landed for me in this episode more than normal. Yeah. Is that the mission is more important than the individuals involved. And at the same time, Oda is looking for his individual. You know, the mission is becoming less important to him. Interesting, fascinating.

Very good. Yeah. Yeah. But you can tell, you can even see now, even now, Cisco does not want to relinquish command of the defiant. He wants to be the person leading that mission, clearly. Yeah. And for him to be relieved of that, it's bothering him. It really is.

This is not what he's, what he expected. We're in the wardroom and they're finishing up this council meeting and, and this is when the founder walks in. Now, shouldn't they have known she was on the station? You would think so. And Wayune is shocked. He's surprised and shocked. I love Jeffrey's choice, by the way, to not look at her.

He's going to make eye contact. This is, again, what Jeff said to Kitty when she auditioned for Vorda. You know, you don't make eye contact with the founders. You look away. These are all choices that Jeff made that were beautifully. And he established the rules for all Vordas. He was kind of creating not just this character, but a culture. Which way?

Yeah. So good. Yeah, we'll look her in her eye. And yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to jump on your point. They should know that there's a founder on the ship. Of course, it should be a big deal, super big deal. Yeah. Yeah.

And someone should be protecting her. She's got a couple of guards. I saw it on the other side that, yes, on the other side of. She's got a couple of big guards, actually. They're very tall. But it just seemed to me, it shouldn't be a surprise. It might be, oh, we've come into, you know, we knew you were on the station, but it's good to see you as opposed to, oh, we didn't know you were on the station. Yeah.

He does it so good, though, Jeffrey, I want to go knock on his door and when he answers. I just want to copy him. Founder, you honor us with your presence and just look at the ground when he answers the door and see how he reacts. He is such a good Star Trek actor. He is. He's up there with how many, you know, how many characters has he played? He's, I've, you know. He may be the champ on me.

No, no, he isn't. He's not. Well, it's interesting. He has more, does, I think he has more episodes than Delancy does. Than Delancey, Delancey. Oh, yeah, yeah. He has more than Delancey. Okay.

Yeah, he has more than Delancey. And yet Delancey has literally shot to the, he would be the breakout character of the overall Star Trek universe, I would say. And it's funny because I would say that Jeffrey Combs deserves that mantle or that, that role of being. Jeffrey's done so much great work. Jeffrey should supersede Delancey's. But he's a character actor, and Delancey is a leading man. And he's focused.

I'm sorry. Ladies and gentlemen, listen to this man. Is Jeffrey Combs not a leading man, though? Is he truly not a leading man? He'd like to be, but he isn't. No. Really? He's a character actor.

He's a character actor. Oh, all right. In my book, he's a leading man. Okay. I just watched the Martin Short documentary, by the way, which is fabulous. Recommend it? Highly recommended. And Martin Short talks about being a character actor and playing small roles often.

He'd come in for a bit for a funny idea in a movie. And he talked a lot about how he was there to serve the material as a character actor. And if his character was successful and broke out, great. If not. But the one thing I remember him emphasizing over and over was, most often we're going to fail. This movie's going to bomb. This show's going to close. People aren't going to like it.

Most of the time we fail, expect failure. And then when the success happened, like the job is to accept that you do your best and it may still fail. That is your job. And then when the success happens, he's like, wow, isn't this amazing? Isn't this a gift? Aren't I lucky? Who would have thought this would be my success? It's just such a great, it's a great documentary.

Yeah. Good advice. Very good advice. I want to watch it now. Back to the ward room, though. we, once female changeling comes in, in the wardroom, we have Wayune, we have Descartes. Essentially, you know, introductions are made. DeCat's very excited, but the female changeling sort of cuts them off because she says, well,

what is happening with the mines? How come the mines have not been deactivated? The minefield is, yeah, it's got to happen. It's got to happen right now. And there's a little back and forth between Wayun and Dakot about who's in charge. That's right. Who's running the war? Mm-hmm. The minute they're dismissed, female changeling, Salome Gens turns to Odo, says, is that how they always interact? Are they that annoying? Yeah, they always. He's like, yeah, they are.

And she's like, wow, you've had to deal with a lot. Odo kind of dismisses himself. He's, I'm busy. I've got some work to do. I'm going to go to my quarters. And the founder says, may I walk with you? I mean, the ultimate, how good is the female founder? Can I walk you home?

Oh, yeah. It's literally. I don't need to come in. I don't know. I'm going to say goodbye to the door. Oh, really? Okay. I'll come in.

I'm going to start calling her shot A. She's the smooth operator. She really is. Oh, my goodness. She's smooth. Well, they go to Odo's quarter. She does find her way in there. Yes.

He's showing it off. All the shapes, all the objects, the jungle gyms, all that stuff, the logs. The logs. He admits after he visited the homeworld that he's been very curious about who he is and what he can do. And she says, you know, the great link will always be there for you. You're one of us. And he says, oh, no, he can't, can't possibly go back to the home world.

She says, is that because of Kira? And he admits that he loves her. And then he gets into how deeply he loves her. And it's a beautiful speech about love and how that experience. I thought it was really well written. Renee did a great job. Yeah. And she says, well, I can offer clarity.

I can offer you. Yeah. I mean, sorry. Try this drug. The first one's free. Yeah, you mentioned the writing being so good. And it continues being so good when the founder says, poor Odo. And Odo says, no, I don't want your pity.

And the founder says, I'm not offering you pity. And Odo says, what I need is some peace. And the founder says, what you need is clarity. I can give you that. It's very simple. These are very short lines, but it's so effective and so well written. I love this scene. I really do.

And they start that link. The link happens. A little bit of trivia for you guys. while the writers didn't intend for the interaction between Odo and the female changeling to be sexual in nature, Bear later, as Robbie chuckles, Bear later conceded, quote, it makes a certain amount of sense, end quote. Director LeVar Burton commented, quote, those are love scenes. She was seducing him, straight up, plain and simple, end quote.

René Obis-in-wa is quoted as saying, quote, I think it has some kind of sexual implications. It is definitely a very sensual experience. For Odo, it is absolutely the consummation of a kind of peace that he can't have, end quote. And when they morphed and the goo was, it looked like they were about to kiss. Yes, it did. I thought, is that a kiss or is it just they're going to merge together so that they become a little tiny ocean together? Right. But they didn't merge.

They stayed in their own separate. But they were getting closer. They had the same. And I thought, if we had stayed on that shot for another eight, nine seconds, I wonder if they would have been less. Right. Into one. Yeah.

Well, we go to the security office next. Demar is there. Demar sitting at the security desk. Kira kind of teases him. He's been demoted or something. She asks where Odo is, though. There's a bit of a power struggle between the two of them. They're just both seeing shots at each other.

Yep. And DeMar says, Odo's in his quarters with the other shape shifter. She starts to leave. He's like, oh, are you jealous? So they're just at each other. They are. Damar hates Kira, clearly. She says, stay out of trouble, Damar, you don't want to end up in sanitation duty.

That's her goodbye. Yes. No love lost here. No, not between those two. It's interesting. I mean, you may know the answer to this, Armin, but was Demar always conceived as a, like a character like this? No, I think Casey's charm made a difference. I mean, that's what happens.

We all know that. If the writers see an actor's performance, they really like this guy or we like this woman, they write more for them. And I think, Dumar, I think, was always going to be an adjutant to Ducotte, but then he takes on a personality of his own because Casey is a charming, lovely, smart man.

Yes. And the wonderful actor. Yes. And Juilliard, as you know. Yes. All right. So we're back at Odo's quarters. He's sitting there gazing out of the window.

He's had his first taste of this link drug. Very pensive. He's going to become addicted to. Yeah, he loves it. Kira comes in, asks Odo why she came to see him. Why did the founder come? And it's clear Kira does not like this founder.

No. She asks if they linked. And he admits that they did. Oh, she is mad. See, this is at this part where Odo kind of says, hey, it's okay. She didn't find out about the resistance. I started thinking.

really? That's like the main founder alien that we've been introduced to that can do anything and knows everything. I kept thinking that's baloney. She completely can realize that she could have of course she can. Of course she can. Yeah, you can't hide that from her. It was absolutely right. He's on the money. She really is. Yeah. Yeah. And she would have, I mean, we hear all the time, well, I didn't say this, but I got this, or I didn't, I didn't actually hear this, but I got this sense that she was, that someone was covering something. Yes.

The founder would have did the same thing. Yeah, he's covering something. Of course. 1,000%. Well, Kira makes him promise not to link again until this war is over.

And he agrees. Yeah. At the end of the scene. She seems like so far so good. Kira's right, but she's being, she's forgiving him or giving him a little space to make a mistake here,

but says, please don't do this again. He can't do it. And his agreeing in my mind is exactly what, what we would expect on this show after watching it for five plus seasons. Yes, she says something, he agrees. And that seemed to me absolutely the way it's been done in the past.

The surprise in this episode is he goes against that. I'm a little ahead of myself, but I really like that. Yeah, I do too. Next up, we're on the bridge of the Defiant, and they're doing all their last second preparations before leaving for their mission. And we have a nice little cute scene with Nog and, Dax and O'Brien, well, with Nog and O'Brien, basically, Dax asks, are you two ever going to be finished?

And Nog says, just a few more minutes, commander. And O'Brien says, that's captain. It's an old naval tradition. Whoever's in command of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as captain. Nog gets very excited. He's like, wait, wait, wait, you mean if I had to take command, I would be called Captain too? And O'Brien's like, cadet, by the time,

cadet, by the time you took command, there'd be nobody left to call you anything. And Nog's like, good point. Everyone would be dead. That's right. There would be no one left. he's the lowest ranked person. This is when Cisco enters. Cisco comes into the bridge and you, Cisco is just looking around thinking, this should be me.

I want to be leading this mission. Please let me. He's bummed. He really is. And I love when O'Brien goes, all done here, Captain. And both Cisco and Dax are like very good. All right. They both respond to O'Brien.

And it's a cute little interchange there. But, you know, he wishes him well and he leaves. But I'll tell you what. Boy, does he play that, you know, wistful longing look at the bridge before he gets out of there. Yes, he does. I didn't know that it was a naval tradition that you call whoever's in church. Captain. That seemed like new information to me.

Yeah. And I kind of liked it, actually. I like, I feel like Gene Roddenberry really drew from authentic naval tradition and naval research and knowledge and things like that. So I love that the series continues that sort of Gene Roddenberry. connection and passion there. I think that's great. I'll also say, Armin, that as much as, for instance, having cork thrown over the bar by Damar was, in my estimation, too much.

It should have just pushed out of the way, not abuse quirk day. For all the instances and all the moments of this sort of description or display of how cork is being treated, we always have the counterbalance, which is Nog, a phrenge being an integral part of this crew, of this mission. So that makes me smile. It's sort of like, oh, thank goodness. At least something. I couldn't agree more.

Yeah. And certainly that's an agenda for the writers to show that the difference between the two different for Rangy. But I do have a question, not knowing a naval tradition at all, the stuff about the captain, I agree with you, is interesting. What I would like to ask someone who knows about this stuff, is it normal for a cadet to go on such an away and dangerous mission? Oh, yeah.

Yeah, probably not. I mean, we just dealt with this in the last episode with Terry. Yeah. Where the Klingons had new recruits show up and Wharf's son showed up and was suddenly at a integral position of like ops operations on the bridge during a battle. Yeah. I was like, wait, he's a brand new recruit. The whole story is that he's not prepared or trained for any of the bridge.

and you've put him... Yeah, I feel like Star Trek does that often with these kind of tropey characters, you know, these archetypes, the innocent, you know, inexperienced character gets thrown into responsibility. I get why it helps story-wise. It just doesn't make any logical sense. Okay, thank you.

I agree with you on that, yeah. I honestly felt that, yeah, yes, he's a cadet, but it's almost as if he was assigned to the station as his internship, you know, And so he's with the gang. No matter what they do, he's going to be with the gang is the way I validated that in my own head. We go into Quarks from here. Morin is there, as usual, drinking.

DeMar comes in. He's very happy, Demar, which is surprising. It seems a little unexpected because he was in such big trouble for the big fight. It was kind of demoted to sit in the security office. But here he is ordering the expensive stuff from Quark. He mentions that he's going to be a goal. He can afford it on a goal salary? Well, he is a goal now.

He's already a goal. He's been. Oh, he is. Yeah, because he was a glen before it, which is the lower position. Now he's a goal. Because he says, I can afford it on a goal's salary. So he's already. Yeah, yeah.

I'm not so sure about that. Why? Garrett. I think he's thinking he's going to get a promotion. That's what I thought. Oh, okay. Well, then I didn't. Okay.

He was anticipating his promotion. Yeah. I can see that side of it now. Okay. Yes, he found a way to make it up to him, and it's going to change the course of history. And Quark's very interested in this. He's like, oh, yeah. Changing the course.

I'm a businessman, so the course of history is very interesting to me. Yes. Starts pouring him free drinks out of the expensive bottle, and DeMarin insists he can't talk about it, but they keep drinking. Yes, can I, they keep drinking. Can I, this is one of the things I remember from this episode. Oh, good. Really vivid. Let's talk about it.

So Kinar is prune juice. Oh, is that what they used? Yeah, that's what's in the bottle. Prune juice. Oh, my God. And Casey hated the taste of prune juice. Oh, boy. And LeVar had to shoot this particular scene several times.

And there's actually a look. If you get beyond the performance and you really look in the actor's eyes, when he has to drink that, he goes, he really hates the taste of canars. And LeVar, for the necessity of shooting the scene, had to do it several times. And he didn't, the case he never complained. Yeah. But he did turn to me at one point.

I hate this stuff. And if you have to drink a lot of prune juice, I'm just going to say, you're going to be, gets things moving. It does. It does. And the take off one of his costumes is very difficult. Oh, my God. But he hated drinking that cana. That's so funny.

Two things. I wish that Demar had a line to court. Sorry about throwing you over the bar the other day. Something like that, just to apologize. And the second question for both of you is more directed towards Armin. I thought Kinar was meant to be sipped. The way he's taking it and they're doing shots of it. Wasn't it?

I'm a little confused. Yeah, it may be. It may be. But I promise you, he wanted to get it over with his flequilious process. He's not going to sip it and save it. He's not going to sip. Throw it down the old belly. Just throw it down. It's like tequila. You can sip tequila or you can do shots. It depends on what you're going for. I suppose. Now, before we go on, we're doing repairs is what Quark says. And he shows him something. And I would assume it's something broken from the bar. I would assume that. But I don't really know from that shot. When he says, oh, we're doing repairs and he showed something. I would have loved an insert to show me what that was. Yeah. I do remember that, but I don't know why what it would be because it doesn't seem like a broken chair, a busted glass, something from that. But it's so far away. I have no idea what that is. We're doing repairs. I'll have to watch it again. See if I can see it closer. Interesting. Yeah. All right. We're in curious quarters right now. It's a resistance meeting. Jake is there. Rahm is there. Odo is there. Jake's talking about re-igniting.

the tension between the Kardashians and the Gemadar and maybe causing another altercation. Kira's not sure about it. I had a question about that, Gary. Is Kira not sure about that for herself? Or is she remembering that Odo didn't like it and therefore she doesn't care for it? That's what I think.

She's deferring to Odo here because she knows how upset he was before. So wouldn't it, it would be clear to me if she had just somehow said that. Right. Odo doesn't think that's a good idea. Right. Yeah, that would have been faster, right?

Yeah, quicker. That's true. But she sets it up, right? She's like, I'm not sure we want to do that. And since she was, what do you think, Odo? And Oda's like, I'm not sure that's a good idea. And because he's caught up with what he's thinking about.

He's on the link drug. He's on the link drug. I would have liked for him to say, I'm not sure, but that's a good idea. I think I would have liked to see the old Odo just pop out for a second and get a little horrific about that. that. Right. Yeah, he doesn't seem interested in this conversation at all. Completely just

detached from everything at this point. Um, so Kira says, okay, we'll just think of something else. But of course, the doorbell rings. Everyone is, well, mostly, Rahm is like, who could that be? If there's a little bit of nerves, Kira's like, don't worry. We're just enjoying each other's company, hanging out. Quark comes in. And boy, does Quark make an entrance. Quark is clearly enliated. Good job. I like playing drunk. Good job, Armin. I don't. I don't. Don't. Yeah, I don't either. Yeah.

You don't know where the line is. Yeah. You know, it's hard to play trunk realistically without overdoing. And if you overdo, it just looks horrible. I didn't think you overdid it at all. No, it was great. You kept it very, very contained in the very beginning. And it's funny because drunk people do try to, they try to hold it together the best they can, right?

And they're very gentle with their movement slow. But then where you, where you, you're, you're very, they're very gentle with their movement slow. But then, where you, you try to, they try to hold it. were able to let loose was that line about Damar drinking Canar and you start laughing. And it was, I think it was perfect. Oh, your laugh was so good. It was genuinely, thank you. I, that's what I remember. I mean, I don't drink, so I don't get drunk. Yeah. But certainly, I've, on the few times that I have, things, you know, often seem funnier than they normally would. Yeah. And you've seen it happen in other people as well. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you both. Yeah. I think that whenever you have to

like, you've done these scenes where it says in the script, you know, we cut inside the dining room and they're all laughing. Right. And all the actors look at that and they're like, oh, geez, we're going to have to do it with a thousand takes over and over where we're all laughing. Yes. And so somebody inevitably, one of the actors, starts telling a fresh joke every take or something to try to make the laugh authentic so that people are not getting burned out. Right. I thought your laugh in this scene was so authentic, it was honest and real and heartfelt. It did not feel like an acting laugh at all.

It was really good. Thank you. Thank you. Really good. Yeah. That was honestly, that was probably the high point of this entire episode was your, your, your, it was good, man.

I just shared a bottle of canard. It's good. Look at his face. I just shared a bottle of canar with demar. That rhymes. And then the laughter that ensued was so good. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. It was so authentic and lovely. It was wonderful. Thank you. But Quark does go on. He goes on to talk about, you know what? I just don't like these Kardashians. They're mean, they're arrogant. And then the Jamadar, they're creepy. They just stand there. They look at you. They stare at you.

You felt those feelings. I thought you did a great job of this little speech here. But most importantly, Quark wants the Federation back. He doesn't want these guys. He doesn't want Territon. Yes. Yes. So there you go. Let's see. wants fruit beer to be sold. I'm very happy for this scene, not for my performance, but for the fact that the writers are finally letting me become part of the gang, for one of a better term. Yeah, you're right. It's finally that he's going to, he's made up his mind to, to join up with these people,

which are the, which are the heroes of the episode. Right. Yeah. Right. And of the series. So I'm really glad that they, you know, a war is going on. you have to take sides. Yes.

You know, as this is tangential, but years ago when I served on the union board and it was very bifurcated, there were two different factions. And I was in the middle. And one of the faction leaders came up to me and said, Armand, you have to take sides. She said, we're like two semi-trucks. And if you don't take sides, we're going to run you over. Oh. So I think finally Quark is taking sides and that's a good thing.

Yeah. Rahma's taking part in this. And obviously, how does he know that this meeting is going on? It has to be from wrong. Yes. Who else could it be? Right. And his nephew is serving as a cadet in this war.

Yeah. So family has always been most important to Quark. So I think this is part of the decision-making process of why Quark, not only does he dislike the others, the Jim Hidar and the Kardashians, but he has family at risk here. Well, yeah. Both family are essentially working for Starfleet, right, for the Federation. So he has family in mind. But the important information is he's there to divulge is that he has found out that

Damar has come up with a way to deactivate the mines. And Ducat wants him to start field test right away. So this is a huge, huge news for everybody. We have a bit of a commercial break. We come back and we see the beginning beats of this scene where they're sort of trying sober up cork with some coffee. A little bit of coffee. And Cork is a little bit more sober, and he comes up with the defector.

And they're like, defector. What is that? Who's defecting? Is that what they said? I'm not sure. Oh, no, no. Deflector is what it is. I don't understand why he doesn't know the word deflector.

He lives on that station where that word must be used a lot. But he was drunk. Yeah, he was drunk. Yeah, he was drunk. It's all very ugly. It is, there is a defector in this episode. and that is Odo. That is right.

That is right. Oh, so maybe it was written. Yes, very nice. I like that. There is a defector. Rom thinks it's him. Right. But I'm the only one.

Reality, it's Odo. But if you watch the episode, you go, no, the defector is Odo. Yeah. Oh, wow. Well, they're going to use the deflector array to essentially reconfigure the field generators, refocus, the emitters. So the deflector array becomes one, big anti-graviton beam, which will basically deactivate or take out all the mines.

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad thing that's going to happen. But what Akira does find out from ROM that the deflector can be sort of disabled in a certain way. But you've got to have somebody go and run a certain diagnostic. But guess what? He's got to overload the wave guide or something. Yeah, that's what he says. But that whole thing is secure. There's alarms attached to it, all this stuff.

Kira asked Odo, can you disable those alarms? And Odo's like, yes. Odo says, I can take them offline for about five minutes if I run a security diagnostic. But that's all that I can give you. Five minutes, that's it. That's enough, though. Rahm's like, I can do that in that time.

So the plan is it's going to happen at 0800. And yet again, it's 0800, always, as Army says, it's always 0, oh, 800. You will begin the diagnosis. It's always 0800. That's funny. There's another. scene. That's what the episode should be called. But there's another scene with Damar is telling the Cardassian troops.

Hey guys, it's really close to 0800. Let's up the patrols right now. Everything happens at 0800. That would be great. So you guys have been very nice about complimenting me. So you haven't complimenting on something I was very proud of. This is my imitation of ROM. Oh, yeah.

I forgot about that. You know what? It was so seamless that it was so good that it did not, you know, stand out for us to say that. but you did do a good impersonation. I was very happy with that. What did Max say on the day of filming? He's fine with it then, yeah? Yeah, I mean, Max is doing an impression.

It's close to the way Max talks, but it isn't Max. Right. So it's just, you know. It's his wrong. Yeah. It's his wrong. Yeah. All right.

So they have a plan. We go to Admiral Ross's office with Worf. Warf is calling in. And he's very worried about Dax. Cisco's there. Worf is talking to Cisco and Cisco says she'll be fine. She can handle this. She's she can do this job and obviously she's not going to miss your wedding. And then Worf notices that Cisco seems stressed, exhausted, tired. He says you need to get some rest. Cisco says I'm not going to rest tonight. They hang up and he goes to look out the window again. There's a lot of staring out windows for a lot of pensive staring. Yeah. Cisco and or no. And Odo. Everybody. I think I'm just.

going to randomly look at your window right now? Okay. And as an executive producer, Robbie, what do you have said to the director? We've had enough of those? Looking at the windows? Looking at the windows. Well, it probably was written, to be honest. But it probably was written and I would have caught it there. It's just we keep doing the same bit over and over.

Unless you're going to tie them together. Like if you're going to do something like that, like repeat it, then either make it something or correct it and don't do it. But if you're going to have people looking out the windows a lot, then connect that Cisco's not feeling himself in a way that Odo's not feeling himself and they're both sort of lost and have them say something that you kind of go, oh, that the poetry of that reference makes sense to me, the poetry of them both doing the same thing. But you have to kind of own it, you know.

Or sometimes if characters say things that are, you know, or about to make a stupid choice, then have the character acknowledge. I know this is a really stupid thing I'm about to do, but I don't know what else to do. So I'm going to go jump in the lake. Whatever it is, if you acknowledge it, then you sort of take the power of the mistake away, whereas if you don't acknowledge it as a filmmaker, writer,

then you let the audience point it out, as we're doing right now. Thank you. You know, it's interesting how much Wharf worries about Dax and about his wedding and about everything. He's a worrier. Yeah, he's a worrywart. And instead of saying that, from now on, I'm going to call people a worry wharf.

I'm like, you're such a worry wharf. Stop being a worry wharf. Please. And that's, yeah. He's a worry wharf. Cisco's a worry wharf. He's searing out the window when Ross comes in, Admiral Ross, says, you need to get some sleep. I need you rest it tomorrow.

We've got this bullion operation plan thing. I need your, you know, I need you to be sharp. And Cisco says, I'm not going to sleep. even if you order me. I'm not going to sleep tonight. And Ross understands. But he says on the way out, he says, you know what? You better get used to this because I may be sending the defiant on a lot of these missions.

And you're not going to be leading them. Yes. So get used to this. Yeah. So we go to Odo's quarters next. And Odo has so many questions for the founder. And she basically says, just link with me. And all this will get explained.

And he goes, no, I can't. You know, I want to use words. And it's overwhelming. He says the link is overwhelming. I thought, you know, God bless Renee, it was the best case of lying on camera that I had seen for a long time. Yeah, that was good, actually. I mean, we know why he won't link. But the lie that he comes up with sounds so plausible.

And he says it's so believingly that I went, there's a lesson right there. That's a master class and lying in a character. Well, she, I mean, she keeps pushing, though. Even after he lies, she keeps pushing to the point where she says, look, let's just link. This is going to happen. And that's when he says, I promise, Kira. And then her reaction, so good. And it was almost specious.

She's like, she is a solid that has nothing to do with her. It was very beneath me sort of kind of dialogue, I felt. But this is the scene, and it's not a long scene, but it's a beautifully written scene about shapeshifters and about the link. Yeah, the drop becoming the ocean, the ocean becoming the drop, right? So when she separates from and she comes to visit him right now, she is the drop. When she returns to the link, she is the ocean. And she, yeah, I mean, it's, it's beautiful.

It is very well written. Very well written. We cut out into a corridor where ROM's got a basket with a bunch of fruit in it. Kira opens the door. You know, this is the second time they use, they've had fruit baskets before. Oh, really? Oh, yes. hiding things under the fruit.

Yes. Well, he's got his tools in the fruit basket, and Kira covers very good when some Kardassians approach. She's like, oh, does your brother send this? I'm going to talk to him about this. So let me ask about those Kardashians. The last time I saw Kira and Kardassians was in Rox and Shoals. And in there, they made a point that there was always a Kardashian guard

that took Kira from her morning, getting up. in the morning going from her quarters to work and i thought are those two guys the same as the as the guys from rocks and shoals are they there to escort her to ops as they did in rocks and shoals i didn't make it i didn't see that there wasn't what levar wanted to show us right but but i thought is that otherwise why are they there and she obviously if she's used to having that escort sure uh needs to make sure that they understand, you know. I think your explanation would have been much better. Yeah.

That makes more sense that the guards show up and the reason she's got to say, oh, I'm mad at Quark, I need to go talk to him before I head off to work. Yeah. That would get her away from these escorts. Yes, yes, yes, because they're not going to escort her to Quarks, right? They don't need to do that. Their job is just to take her to ops. So, okay.

I think it's a great connection. I had forgotten about it, but that would have. Let's go with that. It just seemed coincidental that some carter guys are right there. Yeah. Yeah, they're sort of stopping right across the hall from her front door. And they look like they were looking at a panel or something. I got the feeling they were just small talking.

That's all. That they weren't looking at it. And that's why I thought they were the escort. I thought they're just waiting for her to come out. It's a great. I think you're absolutely right. That was probably the intention. Well, I'll say it looked more casual than that.

I think they were randomly there. And I think the writers forgot that she had an escort. Like they could have made those guys stand at attention right there or whatever. It would have been, yeah, I don't think it was intentional. They needed you on set, Armin. Thankfully, I was somewhere else, I'm sure. Well, they head down the hall. Rom and Kira, and Kira reminds him exactly 800 hours.

You know, open the door, we'll turn off the alarms. And he's not worried. So he jumps inside this conduit. It has good fast crawling. I loved his crawling. I was shocked because I was shocked. Because whenever we get inside of Jeffrey's tubes, it's so painful in your hands, your knees. We would, I would ask props.

I would ask, who's the guys that would bring you knee pads and fernies and all that? Who's whatever job? That would be, uh, costumes probably. No, no. Or stunts? Stunts, yeah. So I'd ask for that. I'd say, give me some knee pads.

I do not. It's so painful. And for him to go through there. And later, later, I think that really fast move, Robbie, I think that was a stunt. I think that was his stunt double. Might have been. There's no way that Max is moving at that velocity. I just don't know.

I can't buy it. I would bet it was Max. You think that was him? I would bet it was Max too. I worked for Max for a long time. All right. Max does not, if it's painful, if it's a problem, he doesn't care. I'm going to do the best I can.

Oh my God. He doesn't ever complain. He just does it. I'm super impressed if that was him in the one take. Because it looked like whoever it was on that really fast take at the very, very end of having away after the alarm go down. The very final one where he's scurried, like he's literally an Olympic runner, an Olympic crawler. It's the fastest tube crawl I've ever seen.

That person's, that person's body looked bigger, a little bit thicker or more. Maybe. Yeah. I remind you, if Max hadn't been an actor, he would have been a professional ball player. So he's capable of doing. He's an athlete. Well, kudos to him. I also liked Max when he got to the spot and he goes computer time.

The computer says 700 hours, 58 minutes. He's got two minutes till... Right. He says two minutes to go. And then he eats the fruit. He's very confident. He's relaxed. He is.

To Armin's point about the time is always 0800. When Kira says, Odo should be in his office and not by now. Now remember, he's going to interrupt the sensor alarms at exactly 800 hours. She should have said he's going to interrupt the sensor alarms at exactly the time. That's it. Because it's always 0800. The usual time. The usual time.

time. Exactly. That's what I would have gone with. Did you guys notice when he's at the condo and relay box? We did notice. What does it say on the outside? It's a 51. A51, which is a nod towards area 51.

That's right. You know, at least that's what I think, which is in my home state of Nevada is area 51. So A51, yeah. It was huge block letters. It was like, oh, you couldn't have missed it. I were trying to make a point here. Yeah. Well, uh,

We go with Kira out to the promenade. She's walking down the promenade. And this is a shot of the promenade that felt very blade-runnery to me. Oh, wow. Before she gets to security. Why was that? Why did you see that? I don't know.

It's just. It wasn't smoky shirt. It's this one or not the next one? She walks. She's just walking. She stops, looks, and then it whip pans over to the empty chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she enters.

It's the next, the next walk that I was particularly taken with. Oh, really? Okay. Promenade looked great. The colors, the something about it looked extra cool looking. She walks over, Odo's not there. The chair's empty. She calls for Odo, no answer.

Good job with a Nana playing, freaked out and trying to maintain control at the same time. Yeah. We cut into his quarters and he is linking. He's doing the drugs. He is not paying attention. No. Because he hasn't even turned to goo yet. And you hear her say, cure to Odo, Odo, answer me.

He can hear that very clearly. And he's like, nope, I'm going to go to goo. See you. Here's a quibble I have. Just a quibble that's a tiny little one. I don't think she should have called Odo first. I think she should have called Rom first. Yes.

Yes. Because he's not in the office. He's got 30 seconds. He's not going to be back. He's not going to be able to get back in time. You're right. And we all know what happens if Odo doesn't. The alarms go off.

I would have called Rom first and said, get out of there before you open. Don't open it. Yeah. Well, if she didn't, she calls, oh, no, he does not answer. We come back to her. She asks the computer what time it is. It's 759. One more minute.

Demar suddenly arrives. And he wants to discuss the personnel report. She says, nope. He insists. He puts his arm up and delays her just long enough that when she, pushes past. She gets away. Gets away far enough.

She does get away far enough. I would have suggested to the writers. In hindsight, this is really easy, is that she tries to contact Rom when Demar shows up. That she said, Rom, and then he shows up,

and then she can't say anymore. Ah, even better. And you could then watch her trying desperately to figure out a way, I've only got seconds left to contact wrong. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, she contacts him and says,

don't open the hatch, but we cut to Rahm, he's just open the hatch. He was I already did. Literally just pulling it aside. And the alarm goes off. We cut out to the promenade. Demar hears it. Heads off with some Cardassian security. We cut back to the super fast crawling. Man, he was moving. I'm telling you, I think that's Max. I think it was. I thought it was, too. Max is. Well, he was able to literally shut off all his pain receptors in his knee. and his hands because that grading sucks. It didn't look like the same grading. It was a little different.

They may have had a slightly like smoother floor. Well, that's what allowed him to do it because the, that old grading was, yeah, it hurt. You know, you and I would have would have complained. We would have said we need something.

We can't do this or we can't go as fast. Yeah. That's not in Max's psychological. I get it. I get it. And the fact that he is so athletic, very impressive. I mean, to me, that crawl, that very final crawl away from camera was a sprint.

That was a hundred-yard dash. And I'd never seen a human being move that fast in a Jeffers tube in any Star Trek. Maybe it was visual effects. No, but it's still, in every film, every episode of Trek I've ever seen, no one can go that fast. I mean, Max was in a Jeffries tube. Max was amazing. He's literally an Olympic sprinter. All I would have taken was for LeVarkechurch.

to say to Max. Yeah, goes fast as you can. Oh, yeah. And Max would have done that. Well, it's faster than any other other actor in the history of Star Trek. I'm going to say right there. So kudos to Max. All right.

We have established that Max is fast. I think that there is no question. If anyone listening to this podcast does not know. It's one thing. Just one thing away. Yes. Yes. It's that Max is a fast crawler.

Yes, but the other thing you must take away is that Demar and Canar rhyme. That's from Armin. That's from Max. That's from Cork. Cork. Yes. Rom pops out into the hallway. Demar catches him.

Well, well, what do we have here? Yeah. Oh, boy. Rom's in trouble. We have a captain's log. The defiance returned after a successful attack on the Dominion Censor array. Admiral Ross and I have recommended the committee. Dax and the entire Defying crew be cited for exceptional performance of their duties.

Yeah. Excuse me. I know it was a time issue. I know. But the fact that we've been talking about this battle that we never saw. This that we never saw. We should have been able to see some of that. Or have them, you know, have Cisco keep asking.

Have we heard anything? Have we heard anything? Nope, they're out of touch. We can't. We can't reach them until they get back into this sector or something. Something that tells the audience, you're going to. going to experience the same anticipation that Cisco has got. They're never going to see this battle because they're so remote and on their own.

Like you could have woven that in as opposed to just skipping it. We've been led to this is an important mission. Yes. And then we never see it. Yeah. We don't really even hear updates or any. There's no version of kind of the battle being part of our story. It just sort of jump ahead in time.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, congratulations all around. the Admiral shows up as well O'Brien comes in with a scuba tank Power Cell, Phaser Power Cell as well and says, here we go. And so it's nice. It kind of bookends with the beginning of the episode of this

ceremony of this sort of here's our memento from this last battle. The used power cell was placed up against the wall. Did you see Bashir asking Dax to tell Ensign Kirby that I took over the con when Hodge was injured. She doesn't believe me. He's trying to impress a girl. I know. It's such a random. It's so, it's so bizarre. It was like, what is, what is, what the hell are they doing with,

with, uh, Bashir? Why is he, they, they just wanted to give Sid something to do. That was his residual scene? Is that what it was? No, he had another scene. He had another scene. He did. He didn't have another one. But, but what I don't understand is why Garrett isn't there. Yes. Excuse me. You're right. He was there before. Where is he now? Yeah, well, I can understand him not going on this mission. I can understand that. Yeah, but if the mission is successful, he should be invited to the party that celebrates. Yes, my.

These are his friends. Definitely. Well, that's a little, yeah, an underside there. We cut out to a corridor where Kira is storming down. That's the shot I like. It was cool. That's the shot that from down below. Talk about being, I don't know.

The cameraman must have been on the dolly. In a prone position. In a prone position. And shooting up. Yeah. Yeah, it was a great shot. It was almost something like coming out of the shining or something. It was definitely a good shot.

She's mad. And then she bangs on the door knocker thingy, the whatever the controls. Yeah. Bangs and she hits it and then the door opens and she comes in. And I wrote, I am on team Kira with this one. He is so calm. I wrote he seems like a psychopath. He's so calm.

I'm going to go with yoga teacher. So he's yogaing. It's so zen. I will go one step further further. Ready for this? Yes. I think he's post-quietal actually. Oh.

Oh. You are, whoa. Yes. I can. It's all of it. It's all those things. Yes. It's drugs.

It's yoga. With a little sex involved. It's like there's a recipe for that look. It is. Yeah, because when she comes after. after Kira and he have it out. Kira's so mad. And essentially he says, you know, you just don't get it because you're a solid.

And she leaves. And that's when female changeling, Salomey Jens, slinks out of the side room, wherever she came out of. And she's like, are you upset by that? And he's like, no, actually, I'm not. Lover. Lover is the only word that's missing. Lava.

Lava. Yeah. Yeah. He is weird. And, yes, post-coital. and the episode ends like that. It's just like, because you're left with this, huh? You're like, what the heck?

Yeah, the ha is exactly right. And it's beautiful the way Salami goes, ah. Yeah. I love that, ah, that she just, yeah. You look troubled. Right. You look troubled at Odo. Did she upset you?

Odo says, no, not really. And that's where her comes in. Yeah. She got what she wanted. That was it. She spent the whole, God knows how many episodes, trying to convince him to leave, give up, Kier.

and she gets what she wants. Oh, yeah. And all she needs is that little, that, perfect, perfect. Is the I-1 of, is what it was. Oh, I love it. Good call there. I don't know how Kira and Odo come back from this.

Like, I don't know how she will forgive him. I will see. I'm so excited to find out what goes on in this soap opera, you know, for these two characters. What is our theme slash lesson of this episode? Arm it? What are you going to say? Alliances in war are untrustworthy and difficult to maintain. That's one theme.

Or, this is a quote from the episode, you don't know what you are capable of becoming. Yeah. I like that. Robbie, what's your theme, lesson, moral? My lesson, my deep thoughts about this are don't link, ever, just say no to linking. Just say anything is good.

So they just say no, the linking is a drug is what you're saying. Yes. I got it. I got it. Don't link. Don't link. Don't do links. Let's have a shirt.

Do you remember those? Don't do drugs? Yeah, no, but during the days of Wham, they had those shirts like, you know, just huge block letters. Just do it, like on top of each other. He's like, don't link ever in big block letters is the shirt. That's my lesson. That's Robbie's lesson.

My theme slash lesson is more about Cisco and his having to. let go of command of the defiant. And I say learn to embrace change and learn to let go. Those are the lessons. A very good lesson for everyone. Learn to embrace change. All right. Well, Robbie, who's our Patreon?

I'm Paul winner for themes slash lessons slash more of this episode? Well, that is submitted by Katie McCarty, and that is personal desires, whether you recognize them or not, can exert too much influence over your duties. Over your, what? duties. I gave it the... You made the tea on there. The Honorable Mention for Thee slash Lessons Last Moral of this episode

as submitted by Martin DuPlaes. Never underestimate a guy with a wrench, a dream, and absolutely no self-preservation instincts. What? That's wrong. Don't underestimate. No self-preservation. Oh, my God.

Or never underestimate a person who can, traverse a Jeffries tube faster than any other human being or alien. He can outrun all of us. You can. That is our one takeaway. This is the end of our episode,

our recap and discussion of behind the lines. Thank you, Armand. Yet again, always a pleasure to have you, sir. Thank you. Always a pleasure to be here. Join us next time. We'll be recapping and discussing the episode, Favor the Bold.

And that will be with Ter Fair, with Terry. And for all of our Patreon, patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. And for everyone else, we'll see you next time. Bye.