The Delta Flyers - Broken Link

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Broken Link, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill,and Armin Shimerman.Broken Link: Odo is forced to return to his homeworld to be judged for killing another ChangelingWe would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Jenny Cordina, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Jeff Allen, Tamara Evans, & Linda Paige. And our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Sab Ewell, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Kelly Brown, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Sarah, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Brian Heckathorne, Kilian Trapp, Katherine M. Prioli, Nelson Silveira, Ming Xie, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Durrell Bishop, & Andrew Golden.Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com* Check out Uncommon Goods: https://uncommongoods.com/tdfSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Arm and Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong, For the complete and exciting version of this episode, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Yes, please do. We were just talking about all of our Patreon patrons and our supporters and how awesome they are.

It's an amazing group. It really is. We've got people that have come to Armands play and been so... Yeah, enthusiastic and supportive, supportive. That's the best word to say. Thank you. We appreciate you. And it may happen that during the course of this talk,

Terry Farrell may pop onto my screen because she's my house guest this weekend. Oh, that would be adorable. Yes, it would be. We have some birthdays. Our first birthday is Eve England. Eve, on November 27th, happy birthday, Eve. Have a great birthday. Eve, happy birthday.

Eve, happy, happy birthday. I just love her name, Eve, England, E, E, to the second power. Sounds like a superhero villain or something. Something like that. Yeah. Yes. Take your pick. Superhero or villain.

Whatever. It works. Okay. Next up we have Alicia Culp on November 28th. Happy birthday, Alicia. Alicia, happy birthday. Happy birthday. Have a great day.

Mm-hmm. Enjoy your birthday. All right. Poetry Time with Robbie's Limerick. Yes. I have a limerick for this episode. Go. Goes a little something like this.

Poor Odo's beginning to unglue. His shape-shifting days might be through. Garrick's back to his roots. Mystery spy game pursuits. Odo's now solid. And everything feels brand new. Very nice. Very nice.

Thank you. Really good. Yeah. Thank you. You like the unglu? Yes. There you go, my friend. Okay, here we go.

My haiku for Broken Link, Odo starts to flux. Only cure is to be judged. Odo can eat now. Nice. Well, here's what's crazy. But Renee couldn't. That's right. All right.

Do we have a metamology? Yes, we do. So the derivation of the term, It is a simple metaphorical descriptor that emerged with the early development of the World Wide Web to explain what happens when a hyperlink stops working. So that's the phrase. Wow. That's the methodology of the phrase. Now, for the individual terms.

Broken from the French Abroquet that was used in Old English in 737. The definition of it is separated forcefully into parts, into forms. fragments into pieces. So that's broken. Link, in the English language, had other forms. It could be links like the cat or the animal. Like a bobcat. Or link, L-Y-N-K.

It's derived from the Old Norse, and I can't pronounce this correctly, but it's spelled H-L-E-N-K, H-L-N-K, H-L-N-K, maybe. Old Swedish Lanker. The definition is, one of a series of rings or loops which form a chain and that word link was first used in the English language in 1450.

Now understand when we say 787 or 1450 we're talking about either old English or middle English as opposed to modern English. Okay. Wow. Thank you. So sort of a Norwegian, Swedish heritage way, way back. Interesting. And the reason why these languages are all borrowing terms from each other,

as everybody knows this. I'm sorry for lecturing, which is that commerce was bringing ships into London, London going to Amsterdam, wherever. The world was connected through trade and sailors were coming in with their own respective languages and people would learn

terms from them and incorporate them into their own language. Well, yeah, that makes sense. It's, yeah. Teleplay by Iris Stephen Bear and Robert Hewitt-Wolf. Story, by George Brozak directed by Uncle Les Landau and guest stars

Salomey Jens as the female changeling Robert O'Reilly as Galron Jill Jacobson as Shalon O'Roya Leslie Beavis as Rionage and special guest star and Drew J. Robinson as Garrick and we talked about

how he changed it. The new Jay which stands for second episode stands for Jort his grandfather's name there we go Jort co-star Andrew Hawks as Amatagan. He was the one Gem Hadar that had to sit in the... Oh, yeah, the pilot. Yeah, he was piloting the Defiant, correct.

One little bit of trivia here. Broken Link is unique for a Star Trek season finale as the story for the episode came from a freelance writer, George Brozak, rather than the writing team. Wow. Yeah, that is unusual. Usually there's a big idea, you know, a big idea that the staff has had for a while that they're kind of heading toward.

Yeah. So this was, I liked it. It was an unexpected season finale for me because I kept saying, when's the big battle? It's going to be a Klingon battle or a Gemadar battle. And then you didn't need a battle. It was full. It was really good. Yeah.

It just, you know, Shilan Arroyo was originally written to be a recurring character. The producers wanted to give Odo a love interest while he was in this human form. and Arroyo was supposed to return in the fifth season. But after watching this episode, the producers felt that she wasn't exactly right for Odo. And they dropped that character as a love interest, which I'm kind of bummed. I kind of wanted to see more.

I was like, oh, this might be something interesting. And yeah, so I don't really share the same sentiment as the writers. What did you guys feel about that, though? Did you guys feel like no connection, no? Because I know the future, I went, you know, this is, you know, I wasn't all that interested in this relationship. There's a much better relationship coming in years. Okay.

Good to know. Robbie. I felt a bit like there was no subtext to this character. And I don't know if it was the performance or the way it was written, but if there had been a bit of more of a secret and more of a subtleness and more subtext going on rather than so blatantly flirting or all of that, I would have been more interested. I mean, I could see how Odo was a bit put off by. the aggressiveness or the blatantness of it all.

I will say that I just looked up, Jill Jacobs and the actress, she passed away last December. Oh, December what? December 8th in Culver City, she passed away. Oh, man. 70 years old, so still youngish. Actually, watching her first scene,

well, I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but watching the first scene, I thought she was working for the founders. Oh. Yeah, I did too a little bit. Interesting. It felt so obvious that you're like, there's got to be something more to this.

It can't just be that. When they touched hands, when they touched hands, she transmitted the virus to him. Oh my gosh. I didn't even think of that. I didn't think of that. Good call, Armin. But yes, it's something about it.

Strange. Yeah. Wow. Huh. I thought about that. Yeah. One of the little tidbit here. This episode sees Odo officially disgraced and rejected by his people, making him the fourth regular character alienated from his race as punishment.

So the other three being Wharf, Cork from Body Parts, the most recent episode, and Garrick. So look at that. There's four disgraced and exiled or, you know, put at arm's length. Interesting, yeah. Definitely feels like this episode is taking advantage of the mythology we've learned so far. about the Jim Hidar, the founders, Odo's path, and it's setting up, and the Klingon's involvement, there's a lot of things coming together in this story

in a great way, without a space battle, without all that stuff. Yeah, without all the CGI. Well, there's CGII of Oda. Oh, there's a lot of CGI. There's a lot of CGI. Excuse me. There's a lot of CGO. Without the CGI space battles,

that's what I should have said. Yeah. Okay. I thought they spent a lot of money on CGI in the SIPS. more than I'm used to saying it all. I bet they did. For sure. And, of course, the last but not least, a little bit of trivia is Sirak Lofton does not appear in this episode as usual, which is a bummer.

Okay. So many episodes this season, they haven't used him at all. No. I mean, great for him because he's getting time off. He can go to school. He can do whatever he has to do, I guess. Yeah, probably. He can get into his sports, you know, which he loves so much.

But still, I would be bombed if I was a series regular. They didn't use me in two-thirds of the episodes in a season. I mean, I don't know his contract. No one does except for Surrach. But I'm wondering if they had to pay him anyway for a certain amount of episodes or whether he got paid for the full season because he was a series regular. Yeah. Yeah.

I would imagine he got paid for all episodes. If he was a series regular, they would owe him all episodes. Even if he didn't act in it. He would still get his payment, but he would get zero residuals if he's not in that episode. So we should not feel badly for Sir Rock. because he's getting a salary and not having to memorize lines. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but no residuals.

Even, right, if you're not in the episode physically, you get zero residuals. Okay. Yeah. All right. We start off in Garrick's shop in the Taylor Shop. Otto comes in to see what Garrick called him for, and we meet Arroyo, that is Jill Jacobson. We meet her for the first time. She clearly has a crush on him.

Basically, she asked him to join her for a date, for a meet, and he says he doesn't eat um it's kind of a curt with her and she leaves and then otto's a little angry at garrick in the scene he's like next time you call me it better be about a crime this matchmaking stuff yeah i like garrick's response where he says well you know i think i just witnessed a crime you didn't set a date that was very funny it was a good line yeah why do you think Garrick did that. I mean, obviously he set up this meeting. Why do you think he's done that? Hmm. What does he get out of it? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe he feels that if he sets Odo up on a date and Odo enjoys that process and is happy for that, that maybe Odo, maybe he buys some points with him. He gets a little, I'm wondering if it's because he already has in his mind that he wants to destroy the founders and everything.

He wants to get to know changelings better in some way, shape, or form and become closer to Odo to kind of, I don't know, spy on the Dominion or something. Have it in, yeah, something. I don't know. But it does seem like there's no end game. There's no concrete reason. Like, why would he do this? Yeah. And I don't remember them having that many shows.

scenes together. So it's not like it's, it's, he's working on a relationship because I just, and, and although Quark and Odo are opposites about the law as well, but, but certainly people's suspicions about Garrick would make Odo suspicious of Garrett. So it wouldn't be some, it wouldn't be something that, and maybe you're right, Garrett's, perhaps it's just Garrett hoping to get a better footing with Odo, yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that would make sense. And at the very end, the biggest news in this scene, is that as Odo starts to leave, he starts having this seizure, this convulsion, this, you know, unstable, unstable situation with his body. And Garrett calls up. The first of many CGIs. Yes, the first of many.

And Garrick calls for a medical emergency team to his shop immediately. So we go off some drama there. we cut to the infirmary a little while later Odo seems to be okay but Bashir says that his form is in a state of flux and he doesn't know why but he can't leave

Bashir does say well maybe it's puberty or maybe it's menopause I love that line Odo does not like those theories not at all and he reluctantly just you know agrees to stay at the end

that made you laugh right guys I mean, that metapause not to me. Well, not the puberty line, but when he said menopause after, that made me laugh. Like, he gave the bookends. That's it. Well, he's talking about, you know, how changelings, bodies react to things. And we've got, then we've got, um, Kira in this episode that we learn Bajoran sneeze. They don't get nauseous.

They sneeze when they're pregnant. So, yeah, we're learning a lot about the, the, uh, people's bodies and alien. Not people. the aliens bodies. Alien bodies, yes, alien biology, I guess. Well, that kind of bugged me throughout this episode because there was a lot of reference to humanoid, humanoid. And I'm thinking humanoid is human, isn't it? Or is it like a human? Like, like the structured like a human. So, so, yes, humanoid coming from etymology expert. Yes. A humanoid means shaped like a human Like a humanoid, a torso ahead, legs, the humanoid, but not necessarily human.

Okay. An ape can be humanoid. Okay. Yes. And you could call a robot that's built to look like a human form. Humanoid robot. Yeah. I like the descriptive word that was used in Voyager, which was by the caretaker, Robbie, if you remember, he didn't call us you humanoids.

he said you bipedal species you insignificant bipedal species so bipedal is the one excuse me bipedal excuse me oh sorry bipedal species i've been saying the wrong way forever thank you for correctly it sounds fancier when you say bipedal yeah or maybe illegal i don't know it sounds like you sounds like you're in the wc if you say i'll take the urine out of it and i'm going to go bipedal from now on Thank you. But yes, I like bipedal better than humanoid. To me, it just pulled me out sometimes. I like solids.

Solids is super cool. Solids and liquids. Solids is cool. I'm a solid. You're a solid. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

We go to the wardroom next. I will say about this scene, I made a note. I felt like this scene was shot very simplistically, almost too simplistically. I was surprised that Uncle Les Landau directed this episode and that scene, this scene in the wardroom was so, basic it was just like lack of movement is that what you're looking for even the blocking you had the three you had like kira and dax and wharf kind of in this geometric pattern and close up of Cisco and it was all I don't know this one this scene and I like this episode a lot but this scene I just kind of went it doesn't feel real it feels staged I was very aware of shots and blocking

that that shot of the three and the faces like was something out of a Russian film that yeah that took me out of it that's that's really artificial that that felt artificial 100%. So they're looking at the monitor, Gowron's giving the speech. He's put out throughout the quadrant, I guess. And he's saying that the Klingons will not accept Federation demands to give up territories in the Orcanus sector. He's being very provocative, you know, very aggressive. Is it that what doesn't he start by saying we're not going to give up the Cardatic? Cassian colonies that we have taken over in a different sector. And then he talks about Arcannis is a second thing.

Oh, I thought it was all the same sector. But maybe it is. I mean, basically the Klingons are saying, we're taking over a lot of stuff. And you better let us have it. And that includes Bajoran space. Get out of there. I mean, he's going to get there later. He's going to say that much later.

But in this scene, he's saying, you know, Starfleet's demanding that they give up what they've won and they're not going to do it and we'll fight you basically yeah and so the team discusses this and they're like you know war feels inevitable and that's when kira sneezes we think 10 times i mean i think they make a bet where she starts sneezing and dach says seven cisco says eight doesn't he and and wharf says 10 or something yeah yeah a dax actually counts remember dax counts the first couple after she sneezes the first time she goes two three and she goes, I think seven. So it's a cute little, quick little beat. I like it. It's a cute little bit. Yeah. Which when we got to the jokey part of the scene, Armin, that's when I was like,

well, maybe that's why they were in those weird shots that I didn't like because they were trying to minimize the pregnancy part of our story until the sneezes came. I don't know. Maybe that's why, but it felt inauthentic to me. But the bottom line is we don't know unless we ask Uncle S. He's the only one that knows. He could have had a family emergency where he walked, he took He had to walk away and he told the first AD, look, you just direct this scene. I'm out. So he went and dealt with that. And then he came back and look what happened.

It just felt unusually simplistic for Uncle Les. And non-Landau. He shoots good. He shoots really interesting, cinematic kind of stuff. And that particular moment to me was not his. Didn't feel like it. Not his trademark look. No.

Okay. But the Bajoran sneezing, this is where we learned that it's like their version of morning sickness. Yeah. I think Cisco suggests she goes, see Dr. Bashir, Kira says, well, he's got his hands full with Odo, but she's thinking about going to visit him. And Worf says that Odo values his privacy. And then Dax disagrees, oh, no, I think he'd love some conversation. I love Worf's comments here where he says, is she always this argumentative

to Cisco? It's kind of flirty. It's like he likes it, but he's going to, like you can feel a little flirtation between the two of them there, which I thought was an interesting little detail that Yeah. They're building it. They're building it. I actually feel badly for Wharf. No one is listening to him. It was a series regular on Next Generation and on Deep Space Nine. No one is taking him seriously. I know. He doesn't have a lot to do in this episode. No. And whenever he suggests something, it's thrown out immediately. Yes, exactly. No. Exactly. That is, that's on purpose, isn't it? In a weird way.

I think it is, yes. Okay. They end this scene with Cisco basically telling them all, I think we should leave Odo alone and just let him rest. And then we hard cut to Kira's walking in.

She ignores exactly what Cisco just said at the end of the scene. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. We're in the infirmary. Kira walks in. She's ignored Cisco's orders,

goes right to him. He doesn't feel like company, he says. but she's brought him the daily security briefing on a pad to read. And he perks up with that, definitely loves his constable responsibilities. Yes. One of the things I had a problem with now 30 years later, I probably didn't have a problem with it when I first saw it,

is the makeup on Odo and the costume, the dissolving, the sort of melting effect, um it just seemed very very very artificial didn't seem real at all it just seemed like a painterly sort of thing and that took me out at times and wish they could have been better with that yeah i had the i had the same feeling about the body stuff and the when as it progressed it was inconsistent it felt like they were kind of not doing the full version of cg and not doing the full makeup it was kind of neither here nor there, but I think it just would have been cost prohibitive to have done it full CG the whole episode. So I get why they did that.

Speaking about the sneezing, just going back to that very quickly, she says, after she sneezed, after Kira sneezes, she says, I hate being pregnant. And that took me by surprise when we just seen body parts where she really sort of took it upon herself. She wanted to do this. she was happy about it and i understand it's the sneezing that she hates but i just thought oh well that's that's contradictory to what we just saw in the previous episode although it's just a comment it's just a comment and also i think if you were to ask any human female hey would you take would you rather have morning sickness or morning sneezing i think they'll take sneezing every time i would think so seems like a pretty easy choice um but yeah you're right

She did seem like she was really cherishing the whole process in the past episode. And all of a sudden now, she's just annoyed by it, right? So, and I wish it would have been something else. Instead of sneezing, if they picked something that was truly annoying, annoying, you know, then maybe. But I have to give them to not credit. I have tried to sneeze on camera. It always looks phony. It looked pretty real to me when she did.

Oh, yes. She did a good job. I had the same thought. That's not an easy bit to do. No, it's not. To sneeze on camera. You're right. It's very difficult.

Yeah. Well, after the moment that Kira gives him the security briefing, he starts reading, he turns away, he starts reading it. And we see him go, what? What? Yeah. So we know he's read something that has definitely triggered this constable side of him, spot something important. Which brings us into the cargo bay. And that is exactly where we find Odo trying to basically stop or apprehend the mysterious, you know, whatever he saw on that report.

He realized, you know, he caught something. And it's this female alien who we have seen before. This is the third time that we have seen this alien. She's dealt with Quark a couple times, I think, before. But evidently, she's never been named until this episode. But they still didn't even say her name in this episode. No. It's just on the script is all it is.

But she's there with her crew. Odo confronts her and ask about some missing diamonds. And she's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. And as he, you know, tries to take her into custody, he starts to go through his little destabilization thing again, his little whatever you want to call it, where he loses containment. It's like a seizure.

Yeah, it's a seizure. Spasm, seizure. Spassoceaser. That's the word I was looking for. I couldn't find. So he goes through a seizure, falls on the ground, and that's when the female alien takes it as her cue to exit. And take off of the diamonds.

Yeah, we've got the diamonds. Let's go. The cops are out. Did you like, though, at the end, he's a puddle of goo. And then as they're leaving quickly, the hand comes out. I did. I thought that was cool. And then goes back.

I didn't. You didn't like that? No. Like that three shot, where the three of them were standing, shoulder to shoulder in a previous scene, I thought, this is a little too much, you know,

it's just too much. What if it's... I would have, I don't know what they could have done instead. If he can be a, if he's melted into a puddle, how is he, I just didn't.

How about this? What if instead of a hand coming up? What if it started to constitute as the head he's trying to, and then it falls back in again. He can't get back, you know? That, you know, that would have been better.

Thank you. Yeah. That's the, that's the one should have been done. Yeah. because that makes sense. I mean, he always formed, as when Odo goes from liquid to solid,

he doesn't form his hand first. It always goes head and then shoulders and torso and it comes up, right? Yeah. So wouldn't it be cool if he started to come up? And then it fell right back in in a splash like that. Yeah, he couldn't do it. Probably would have been a much more expensive CG though. That's to track all the facial expression rather than just a hand.

So it was a money issue. All right. probably it probably was yeah yeah makes sense we go into the infirmary the goo and the hand are now back into odo form but his bed that he's in has a lip around did you notice that no if he spills into goo so he's like it's like a tray now it's like it's like a container bed like a giant petri dish in case he turns to goo which i thought was a cool little detail and change that's a good idea for like kids that wet the bed, just to have a bed that has the edges. I didn't catch that at all, but now I'm thinking about the previous scene.

If he's a puddle, how did they scoop up all of him and not lose any part of him? That's why I noticed it, because I was like, oh, he's back into form. But now he's got the makeup pieces on, and they're sort of enhancing it. And it was sort of in between. I was like, wait, you just left him. He was a hand. Like, how does he, did he reform himself? enough to i don't know but if you're right arman if he's liquid but he's not liquid into a container

which is how he usually regenerates into a bucket he was liquid onto the floor so it's everywhere now so how do you not i guess they got every little bit up then i mean how else are they going to explain that a wet back a wet back used a wet back from home depot a shop of course yes that's what that's what they did that's the only way i got a shop back in case any changelings come over to my house i could just suck them all up just suck them all up he's in the infirmary and rene now has his normal auto makeup yeah and these patches these pieces that they've done with drippings and and he's got some visual effects kind of enhancing that so it was it was starting to get complicated here but he's in bad shit

do you guys remember when is this the one where he has the blanket on here does he have the blanket on in this one at one point he's see for yourself he's sure he's shows, yeah, he says, see for yourself and he shows the thing and then covers it up. To save the CGA on that, they should have said, when he said, see for yourself and then that other person should have said, no, no, no, I don't want to see. So they would have saved just the money on the, they would have saved thousands of dollars. You just said, no, that it's fine. It's fine.

I trust you. I trust you. Well, he shows him that it's, he's in bad shape. And Bashir confirms it's bad. He's only got a week or two left. And Bashir suggests Dr. Maura, the Bajoran doctor, but Odo says absolutely not. He suggests Starfleet medical. Maybe they can help do something. Odo refuses that too. And they both, Odo says, we both know what I need to do.

I need to go see my people. I have to go back to the founders. They're the only ones that can help me. Now that's our adventure. We have our mission. Up in the captain's office, Bashir, Phil, Cisco, and Kira, and Onoto. They are planning to go to the Gamma Quadrant, hopefully find the founders. They don't know where they are because their home world is super secret. But they'll have to go without any cloaking. And Kira mentioned she wants to come along. Cisco says, no, you should stay here because I need you here. And also the sneezing because she sneezes at the end.

So a call back to... As opposed to administrative duties with all the rest of them gone on the fire, that somebody should be in control of the station while they're all going. Agreed, but she's pregnant. That's why Franks' character was invented for TNG. Exactly. Who's back on the ship? Or who can go on the away mission or if the captain's got to go?

Who's the boss? They're going to head out on the Defiant. We cut to the Defiant Bridge. They're preparing to leave. But they're waiting for Odo. They've got everything. They want to get everything together and then move him very carefully onto the Defiant. Garrick shows up requesting to join them.

and Worf here says absolutely no Cardassian spies. But Armin, as you said, they ignore Worf. And Cisco says, let me go talk to him. And also Bashir does say, well, if Garrick's here, there must be a good reason. So this is another kind of Bashir and Garrick's friendship is helping Garrick out in this moment. Yeah. He's been very clever to become friends with a series regular like that. So Sisko says, yeah, tell Garrick to meet me in the mess hall.

And when he first said that, I was like, it's the repliment. Why is he meeting him in the mess hall? And they went, oh, they put a mess hall on the defiant. We go into the mess hall. Garrick is giving two security guards or some crewmen. I think they were security. But he's giving them fashion advice as he lines them up. I have to say, one of the background actors that was doing the scene,

did he start laughing? He was doing a little, he was doing a little too much acting or something. Oh, no. He was like, he was rolling his eye. who was kind of pretending not to laugh. I was like, facial mugging. Don't, don't do anything. Don't just listen.

I don't know. It drew me out a little. Well, those awkward scenes where principal actors are talking to background actors, but the background can't talk. And so. Tell me about it. I spent seven years talking to a background actor who couldn't talk. But at least he had the makeup on so that was not the mugging.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, these guys were just exposed. Okay, I did not catch the mugging because I was laughing too hard at Garrick's suggestion of, you'd be surprised what a nice scarf can do. Which made me laugh so hard thinking, visualizing all Starfleet officers with scarves, like these like silk scarves thrown around their neck. Aviators, aviators. I guess you could see those aviators.

Aviator scarves. Well, he gives them the fashion advice when Cisco arrives. And then again, it's going to sound like I'm piling on these background actors. But then they walked around and went and just stood. off camera i saw them in one of the shots as it wrapped around i was like don't they have like a goal or an intention or they just that's where the second the second or the first should be telling them uh yeah they should either have food or go get their food or go to a replicator and get some have some action rather than just move from one place to the background in that scene

sort of bugged me but garrick tells cisco that he wants to come along because he wants to ask the founders about the missing Cardassians. When the Cardassians attacked and were beaten, no one returned. So he wants to know what happened to his people. And why should a tailor be privy to that? Yes, exactly. He's really exposing himself here. Well, yeah, because that group of Cardassians was not the main Cardassian force. That was the obsidian order force of Kardashians, which he was always rumored to be part of. Yes. Yeah. Well, Cisco does say to his request, he says, we don't need any tailors on this mission, and we certainly don't need any spies, and he starts to leave. But then he goes, but there is one thing I can think of.

He says, if you can distract Odo on this long journey, that would really help. And Garrick is thrilled to offer mysterious distractions galore. That's easy for him. I just had a realization. What if Garrick was not really truly ostracized. What if that was a story that was put out there? And he was a plant on the station by the Obsidian Order the entire time. I never thought that, Robbie, until just now. Really? No, I didn't. I bought everything. I've always thought he's good for you. I'm very gullible. But that's because you're not as gullible as I am. I'm very gullible. I buy into just ridiculous things. So I bought a hook, line and sinker that he was, you know, basically ostracized and exiled and sent to Siberia to be on the station. And now I'm like, wait a minute, he could have totally been planted

there. So, well, like his long. Ask me no questions. I'll tell you no lies. We don't want to know, Armin. We don't want to know. I like, I like his line, though. He says, just give me a seat next to Odo's bed. And I promise you I'll conjure up enough innuendos, half-truths, and bald-faced lies about my so-called career in the obsidian order to keep the constable distracted for days. It's a mouthful. It really is. It's colorful and it's just, he tells tall tales. He loves, he's good at it. And he tells them in a tall way as well.

Yes. He was very animated in this episode. Very animated. I would say as a character. He was a master of deception, a master of animation. Yeah, I think his strategy in this episode to me was, I'm going to dazzle them with my big performance of the clown almost. It was like he was playing the clown in this episode.

Playing the fool to entertain everyone and keep them distracted so he could accomplish his mission. I think that's the motive for Andy's choices, which is a good idea, which is a very good idea. It makes sense. If you think about it, everyone he's ever known ever worked with in the Ossetian Order is pretty much dead now. So, I mean, he's got a lot on his mind. And it's a truth, it's a truth. people don't take clown seriously when people when people think other people are dumber than they are or not as important as they are they tend to disregard them and

not pay much attention to them it's underestimate them they underestimate and I think it's it's a lovely choice absolutely he's all in for that job and he's going to come along for the ride we go to the promenade next and we see Kira and Bashir helping Odo who's still melting to walk out of the infirmary and i bumped on this because i just thought shouldn't he be in a wheelchair or a tub a tub or a giant bucket or something in case he like the struggle for him to walk and bashear's already said exerting yourself is going to accelerate this problem yeah at least a gurney a gurney that had something like a tub on on top of a gurney would have solved all the problems because he has to face the people going into the promenade, which would be better than the tub, but a gurney

would have been the solution, I think. It seems like it would have, and it would have kept the stakes high, because I was surprised to see him. Yeah, why is he walking right now? Yeah, he seems to be better. I mean, he wanted to walk. Yeah. I can see where Renee made us understand that his pride demanded that he walk out of the infirmary and, and face the people of the state. you know as a proud changeling so i understand him walking out but but the but the physical problem was he should have been he shouldn't have been exerting himself he shouldn't have been allowed to do that yeah yeah well cork arrives in this scene i love this scene arman thank you work arrives i'm very proud of it actually i you should be i loved it and for a residual scene which is kind of what it is

it's all it is yeah um it reveals a lot in this season 5 finale about where Quark and Odo are now because Quark arrives and he says, oh, so you are heading out of here. My profits are just going to soar until you return. So you're subtly checking to see you're going to return, right? It doesn't say that, but that's subtext going on. But he's doing it in a kind of out of left field way. And Odo says, oh, I'll be back as soon as I can to make your life miserable again. And then Quark has a moment where he shows his hand.

And he says, oh, I'm relieved, so you are coming back. Yeah. And it was beautiful. It was a touching scene. It really is. Yeah. Thank you. I thought it was great. And then Odo walks dramatically down the promenade. All the people stop and watch him. There's

a lot of respect for Odo as he has grabbed there. I have a question about this next shot. Will you go to space? And it seemed like a different angle of the space station and where the wormhole opened up as the shuttle went away it seemed like in a different relationship

to the station than I've ever seen and I don't know, did that bump anybody else? No. Usually, I don't know why. Usually we see a ship go away and it's like... In a certain part of your screen, your viewing screen.

Yeah, in the frame. Yeah, and the wormhole's right in front of it. Yes. And this time, you kind of panned off and it was sideways. It looked like it was face. I didn't catch that, huh? I don't know.

But you caught it. It bumped me a little. I was like, wait, that's not where the wormhole is. It's over there. Okay, I have one thing about what I was bumped about, and I forgot to mention this earlier, was the first appearance of Garrick in this episode. I immediately looked at his face, his makeup, and I thought, it's different to me. It almost looks like the ridges over his eyes were more pronounced or were not completed the way they normally

or weren't applied the same way? Or I don't know what it was, but to me, I saw something different, but I don't know if anyone else noticed that. I did too. Oh, you did? I didn't clock it, but now that you mentioned,

I do remember thinking that. Okay. His makeup looked different. Yeah. Had they made changes or had they simply had a different makeup artist? Makeup artist. That's what I was thinking, you know? The regular person wasn't there and someone else came in or something.

Yeah. I mean, to pull back the curtains, sometimes the makeup artists get sick, and you have to put somebody else in there. You have a day checker that comes in. And they don't know, exactly. You know what I think it is, Armin. I mean, it's okay.

I think his normal Cardassian ridges are higher up on his head. And this person lowered them so they're almost, it's creating like this weird, like extra brow, you know, like brow bone or something

by pulling it further down. That's what I think it changed it. Interesting. It was something. I remember thinking, why does he look strange and then I moved on. I kept thinking, are his eyes extra big today? But it was just something with the ridges changed from when we saw him last, is what I was

say. Well, they go in the wormhole, they come through into the gamma quadrant, and they talk about how they're going to send out basically a distress signal. Odo's in trouble. They're looking for the founders. They're going to send this out so that people know they're coming and why they're here. And they're going to head into the dominion, no close. They're not going to cloak the defiant like they would normally do it.

And this is when all the men start discussing. You know, Brian says, I've never been out here without cloaking. I'm not used to it. I feel kind of naked. Yeah. And then Wharf agrees, yes, it's very disconcerting. Cisco agrees. I feel the same breeze that you do.

And then Dax, with a big smile, says, they say, why are you smiling, Dax? Because I don't know. I guess it's being in the same room with so many. naked men, which I thought was very funny. Which she has been. Yeah. Yes. She has been a naked man.

Yeah. That is true. Dax has been a naked man. Yes. Jadzea has, but Dax has. Dax has, exactly. It was funny, but it was kind of more a 90s funny to me than a modern day funny in a way. But now that Armin is brought up, well, naked.

Dax was a man. Now it's more Star Trek funny then. Yes, so I'll buy that. Get a little more comedy in there, a little light humor. We go into the medical bay with Odo, and this is where Garrick is weaving his tall tales. He's telling lies. He says he was a gardener at the Cardassian Embassy on Romulus. Many Romulan dignitaries seem to die mysteriously.

Right. And Odo's very interested in this. He thinks this is great clues about things he can. follow up on. You can tell he's I would venture to say that yes, he was very interested, but I think what I saw in

Renee's performance was him soaking it all up for later processing or perhaps processing at that moment, but certainly for later processing. Just tell me more, tell me more so that I have something to chew on when I'm alone and I can think about this. Yes.

Do you think he bought it, the story? I did. You don't think he did i did well we know later on that that he doesn't buy it we know we know that later on so do we he does yeah how do we know that i missed that there's another scene where he he tells you know you i i didn't think you were there you were there for this what oh oh i'm pretty sure i didn't catch that okay yeah it's it's my note somewhere but i i did buy it though ravi i thought he bought that i thought he bought it too i bought it i thought he was because he's always telling these tall-tailed. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Interesting. All right. All right. Well, he says he was the gardener and then

Bashir enters and Garrick tells Garrick that maybe Odo should just rest. And this is where Odo says, no, no, no, no, it's fine. It's, it's working. I want to hear more. Again, because I think he's processing the information. Tell me he's in the middle of an investigation. Again, what's, yeah, picking, picking out the truths from the lies and trying to, like, that's a fun game for him. Yes, exactly. We go back to the bridge of the defiant. Miles says, Kako and Kira were talking one day when he got home from work, and suddenly

when he walked in, they stopped talking. And he's like, what's that about? Maybe they were talking about me. He's very paranoid here. He even says maybe he needs Julian to move in with them. And right at that moment, suddenly on screen, we see a full squadron of Gemhidar warships. Full stop, says Cisco. Oh, Gem-Hadar everywhere.

Bam-P-P-Bum. Commercial time. And again, and maybe just my eyesight, but I just didn't think that the Gem-Hadar ships were all that defined. They seemed just like shadows of things. I just didn't get the feeling that Dan had done a lot of work into creating those ships. But that may just be me. No, I agree with you. When I look at it, I keep thinking.

It's quite simplistic. It's quite basic. It almost looks like they didn't have time to complete the Jim Hidar design of their ship. So, yeah, I've always felt that from day one since we've seen it. But you're saying just for this specific episode, Armand, is that what you're saying? It's the first time it never occurred to me. So that's why I'm saying it's only this. Maybe just this episode.

But it could be historically that way. But this time I went, why don't those ships look more defined to me? Yeah. I have more detail. This was early days of CGI. And it probably would have been much more expensive to get into the detail and much cheaper, especially if you're replicating lots of these Gemhadard ships in the 20th, so keep it simple. And really, this is the last episode of the season.

They're either in the red or in the black, and they're probably in the red. And they've called for a lot of CGI. And so it could be that they're cutting corners in order to keep the budget as low as possible. Correct. Red Alert. The holidays are almost here. And if you still have names on your list, don't panic. Don't panic. Yeah, I think it's time for battle stations. Not quite, Mr. Paris. We still have time. Uncommon goods makes holiday shopping stress-free with thousands of one-of-kind gifts. You'll discover presents that feel meaningful and personal, never rushed or last minute. Thank goodness. Plus, uncommon goods looks for products that are high quality, unique, and often handmade. So every gift feels special and

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Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon goods, we are all out of the ordinary. And the Gem Hadar sitting out there, and they give them a call. They want to beam over. And Cisco says, okay, tell him, I'll meet him in the transporter bay. But before he can get two steps, they beam in. Directly to the bridge. Right to the bridge.

They don't even wait for an answer. Very threatening. Very threatening. In the sense that they can do that. Not that they are threatening. It's the sense that, okay, I'll meet them. Where did you say at the... The transporter bay.

At the Transporter Bay. That they bust all protocols and they show up on the bridge. And Dax doesn't know they're coming. Nobody warns them. There they are and they're armed guard with the founder. And I thought that shows their power. It was subtly just saying, we'll do it our way. Yeah.

They take over for sure. And I had that same feeling in the episode, which it's very possible that you did not review that one with us. But earlier season two, when we first had that one Vorda that just showed up on the DS9 station without any beaming technology, it's just like just, just appeared. I kept thinking, ooh, these founders, these changelings, everyone on that side, the Dominion, very, very threatening, very powerful. They don't even play by the same rules that Starfleet were the Klingons or the Cardassians or the Bajorans or the Bajorans or the Fram. Nobody, nobody even plays on that level. That level's insane. It's like, we don't need transporters.

We just, we hit a button and we show up anywhere we want. Yeah, it's like, oh boy. Well, when they pop in, Miles goes to reach for a weapon or something, and one of the GemHedar grabs Miles. Again, it shows their strength here because Miles from just getting grabbed or hit or whatever brief physical interaction he had. I got the feeling that it was something pulling at his chest. that he had grabbed skin and bone and tissue and was yanking on it. And that's what I got from Colum's reaction. It was like he was tearing out of his skin.

Yeah, it was like it shows the effortlessness of the GemHadar to inflict real pain, like the strength that they have. Yeah, I didn't really think about flesh and bone. And I thought about, well, the Gemadar have been studying human pressure points and whatnot and things that really, really hurt them, you know? And they found something in some chakra area that's right there that was really... He was in pain. Yeah, oh, yeah, big time.

The founder is there with them. The founder says that only the great link with all of his people could fix him. And she says, just leave him with us. We'll take care of him. And Cisco insists on staying. She's very sympathetic to that. She said, I understand. Why do you feel that way?

but we can't let you know where our home world is. So she sends a Jim Hedar down to the pilot chair. He's got this little device that will protect all of their secrets. It's a very little device, by the way. It's very small. It's just, yeah. And he just sort of sets it up on the ledge of the console. But it's a cool device, though, because not only does it erase all Starfleet, it does it, it does not allow the Starflea computer to kind of document and track where they're going.

It also fritzes out the view screen So they can't even see where they're going They're completely blind I thought wow that's a powerful little device I wonder how he helms the ship If he can't if you can't see it Well he can see on his console Right he can he has navigational controls on his console

And he has a map basically there So he knows where he's going I guess you have to like look look But it's a bit like flying blind like Yeah in a way sure yeah yeah Yeah it would have been interesting if they had just, instead of flying the ship, to your point, Armand, if they had said, we're going to put this device here, it's going to shut down all your computers for any kind of

records or navigation data, and we're going to tractor you to our homeworld. And so they weren't even flying it. Right. We're going to tow you there. That's a great idea. That would have been a little easier to, you know, to comprehend the logic. But that's just a nitpick. It's just a nitpick.

Another idea is that the female founder comes up and says, okay, she pulls out a bag. She goes, everyone, these are our blindfolds. And everyone's going to put a blindfold on. That would have made me laugh. So the last thing that we hear in that scene after the little device is the founder says, okay, it's time for me to pay Odo a visit. So we're now in the medical bay. We are in the medical bay.

Garrick is there. He's actually worried about how he looks because he wants to look good in front of, you know, the founder, because he's the representative for the Cardassian Empire. But he also, I love about the scene, Odo is sitting here talking about, oh, I think the Romulan's poison pro-consulmeric, and you were the one responsible for the transporter accident. That's exactly what I was referring to.

That's his solving of the information he got earlier. He got all that info, right? And now, boom, he comes up with the payoff, which is you were the one that came up with the transporter accident. And Garrick does not admit to anything, as usual. He's like, Garrick getting warmer, but how do I look? And at that moment, that's when the founder comes in. She's looking at Odo and she feels bad for him.

But she says, give me your hand. Odo does. And all of a sudden, the CGI effects happen. And Odo's really horrible droopy state is now much better. He's still got that sort of light sheen of sweat on his face. but other than that he's pretty much intact as the Odo that we know and so she says well this is a temporary thing this is going to help you for now but to be completely cured or you you need to reconnect with the great link is what

what he has to do but also one thing I left out she does ask everyone to leave the room she's like I need to everyone to get out of here because I need to say something in private so everyone including the Gem Hadar guard and the Starfleet guard everyone leaves and that's when we learn that the true reason is he is now being judged for killing another changeling which is against their it's never happened in the history of time

as long as changelings have been alive no changeling has harmed another the first tenant first one that's ever happened and the reason because that that whole killing of that changeling happened a whole season ago so the explanation for that time gap is that there's been a lot of discussion

amongst all the changing things, what to do, and there's been some dissenting opinion. There's some people that believe one thing and some believe the other. And so at this point, they have to just bring him in and judge him and hear everything that he has to say,

open up his thoughts and know what he's saying, what he thought of, so they can see all angles. And that's pretty cool, because if you think about our court system, we never know what's really going on in someone's head, but in the changeling court system, The minute you enter the pool, everyone can see everything.

It's like, ah, you can try to hide things. I was going to say, because later on, he says they were trying to hide something from me. They try to. But if you're in the damn link and you're interfaced with the link, that's very difficult to do. It's very difficult. And I almost feel like the hiding was more a distraction-based thing. Like maybe the other changelings were saying certain things that tried to distract him from observing what was going on in the greater Maybe.

Yeah. Well, so they're going to go, they're going to link him up to judge him. Yeah. They're going to look at his thoughts and his thought process of why he killed this change. Correct. Yeah. Okay. That will affect his punishment.

The decision, his punishment. Yeah. He's going to be punished one way or the other. We already know that. But then he even asked, Odo says, what if I choose not to reconnect with the great link? And the response from the female founder is, but then you will die. You know, this. virus that's in you will be which you know Arvin said so so brilliantly may have been the handshake

between that one possible date yeah but I guess when I was researching this this this episode they were saying that the the virus that afflicted him was from Wei Yun from the prior episode and it was when Wei Yun when Jeffrey Combs supposedly put his hand on on Odo's shoulder, but in that particular episode when they filmed it, it was such a tight shot that you didn't see a hand, you know, it was just on the faces. I remember that scene because it was a great scene in the hallway. Yeah. It was one of my favorite scenes in that episode.

But you're, yeah, they were some of the biggest close-ups. So tight. So now you don't see any clapping on the shoulder so you don't see the transmission of the virus. But that's what the writers initially intended. so yeah interesting any thoughts about that scene arman just with the founder conversation and the judging and well what i what i felt was what a great system of justice and and and that part of the ethos of this civilization of the changeling civilization is they didn't make immediate judgments they were going to have a trial and and they they were going to listen to what odo had to say and they were going to

you know and i and i got i thought wow despite the fact that they killed one of their own that they were going to have a judicial system that um that they believed in and and i was quite impressed by that yeah i i don't know if you mentioned it gara and in the recapping of that scene but to your point arman i think she says at one point like well you know what there's been a lot of discussion about this and a lot of debate different opinions and we did send you away. So maybe it's our fault. Maybe it's our fault. Yeah. And it was like, oh, everyone's got responsibility in this. It's not just like a good guy, bad guy. Like, we're the judging, we're the good guys judging the bad guys. She was saying, we're all sort of linked together here and maybe we have

some responsibility in this too. Yeah. Thank you for that. So do you think the one opinion was we must pay a death with a death? And then the other dissenting opinion was, but we said, him away to begin with. It's our fault. Maybe that that was the dissenting opinion that we are not going to kill him. We have to keep him alive in some way, shape, or form. I mean, there's an analogy to past judicial cases where defense attorneys were able to argue that society did this to my client and society is responsible and not my client. And people got off on that. People were quitted for that. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there's an analogy there. Right. It also makes me think of the Truth and Reconciliation committees that were put together in Rwanda after the horrible war.

The genocide there, yeah. And people came in, the justice system was not about punishing the bad guy and, you know, separating good guys and bad guys. The truth and reconciliation was about let's just all tell the truth. And when the truth is out there and we can recognize. it and that we all played a part in this we all had an experience in this that once the truth is out there we can reconcile with the truth

and with what happened and move on oh tear fair special guest star hi she's mine all mine sorry to interrupt but I just thought it'd be too much

fun to just have a surprise hello Of course. Can you hear us? She can't hear us. She can't hear us. She can't. Oh, I'm so sorry. We didn't know if you could hear us, but, huh?

Hi. Oh, dear fare. Hi. Well, I can read your lips. I know. You look great. You look like you're put together for a meeting of some sort. Are you going on a big Hollywood meeting right now?

I am. I'm going to visit our friend Bonnie Gordon. That is my big Hollywood meeting. That is a big Hollywood meeting. Where are you meeting Bonny at? Where are you guys meeting? At the Earth Cafe. Perfect.

Of course. I wanted me to go to the Magic Castle and I said, I want to see you without a convention, without the castle. Those two girls having coffee. Oh, I'm really excited to see her. Oh, my goodness. I love your background, Robbie. That's insane. Thank you.

It's kind of a changeling. Have you de-aged? I have not de-aged. I have a red nose right now for some reason. reason. Because you are an outdoorsman. I did go hiking yesterday. That's what it is. You got a little fun. It's chilly. Doesn't he look younger now?

It does. He does. Yeah. I love you guys. I love everybody. Tell Bonnie we said, huh. Yeah. Okay, I will. Thank you. Oh, wow. You're better than me. My nose is very red. I know what this man has. Yeah, it looks like you've been drinking red. I know. I know. I haven't.

I know you haven't. Armin, when you're like, she's mine, she's all mine. I was like, spoken like a true frinky. That's what I meant to do. The female founder is left. Now, we are in the corridor because Garrett chases after her. He runs up to her. He says, excuse me, excuse me, a moment of your time.

And the founder turns around and notices who it is. And there is not a very happy face right there. You are Cardassian. And Garrick's like, yes, that's right. I just want to know if there were any survivors after the attack on your homeworld by the Cardassian forces. And the founder just says survivors. And she says, no. And Garrick says, they're all dead.

And this line is so just creepy. The founder says, they're dead. You're dead. Cardassia is dead. Your people were doomed the moment they attacked us. I believe that answers your question. And I was like, oh, my God. And Garik's response to that, it was a pleasure of me.

meeting you and you could see he was like I want to kill you but he was saying I'm pleasure meeting you at that time because he had to do what he had to do it was an interesting reaction from from Andy there because he was being very cordial he was but then when she left I couldn't tell if it was fear panic if it was anger I thought it was anger really I thought it was anger oh yes I thought it was interesting whatever he was doing I found very interesting because it was a turn you saw that there was one expression to her and another one that was showing he's got something else going on there. Yeah, but it's scary because to me it sounds like the Dominion has plans to completely

wipe out all of Cardassia, the entire planet to me. Oh, that's the point. Yeah. And it's like, holy moly. And I think that, yeah, so Robbie, you're right. There was a mixture of emotions he was playing, which is what was so interesting, which is shock, the realization that his entire people are now going to be exterminated, you know, because of what they tried to do. And, and, anger that all the obsidian order people that he used to know and command that were his you know his troops they're all dead they're all dead not one prisoner and the one thing that perhaps could have been there as well but wasn't was he is a master chess player garrick yes one bad move in chess can lose the game for you so what i would have would have not loved to have seen but would

have liked to have seen is him going maybe we made a mistake by attacking them yes because she's saying you know i've got it's made in three or made in four and um and and maybe he should have thought maybe we shouldn't have made that attack right the other thing is i want to point out salome jens salome jens is one of america's great great great theater actresses and what's wonderful about this episode is there she is a huge threat without being threatening she makes it clear without ever forcing it that she is a power to reckon with and yet she is just soft-spoken quiet a lenient at times but it's a grand performance it's a grand she almost reminds me her tone feels like she must have done some Greek drama.

She might have. I would, I can totally picture her, not just in theater generally or even classical theater generally, but like really classic here, like Greek dramas, you know. Salome is and was a force to reckon with in the theater. She was huge. She may still be for all I know. I'm not saying she's passed away, but I don't know how much work she's doing now. But when I was, when I was growing up and in the theater.

Salami Jen was a name to reckon with. Well, she is 90 years old. She's still alive with us. Okay. Yes. Great. Yes. And she was a dancer, by the way.

She looks like a dancer. She was a dancer. Yeah, she was a dancer. Very interesting. Ballet? Is that what it says? It looks like a lot of different things. Okay.

Yeah. She did a lot of different things. Wow. Yeah. She's a Jackie of all trades, is what she is. Yeah. Jesus.

Mess hall next. So off of Garrick, panicking or angry or all those feelings. We cut into the mess hall and O'Brien's trying to figure out a way to communicate with Odo when he's in the, you know, the goo. The goo. How are we going to communicate? And Worf says, well, you can't hide anything from these founders because they're talking about maybe putting in like a micro probes or something. Like they're just trying to think of anything. Odo arrives and says, don't even try and help him.

he wants to be judged. He wants this judgment to happen. He doesn't need backup. If I may quote from, which I think was one of the better lines in the episode, a lot of good lines. He says, I want to be judged. I've spent most of my life bringing people to justice. Now that it is my turn, how can I run away?

And that is a huge insight into Odo's soul. he realizes his history he realizes his dignity he realizes that he has to do this and and you know that's odo all over yeah yeah he's a man of principles principle yeah even at the cost of his own freedom his own life the principles are the most the thing he holds in the highest regard and that's clear yeah very well written which is what makes him a great law man because if he can And holding in himself, he expects everyone to do that as well. Yes. Yeah, and he says he'll accept their judgment at the end of the scene.

They're his people. He'll accept their judgment. We cut to the bridge next. Dax is in the captain's chair for a moment here. Cisca walks in and Dax is there. But clearly, she's not really in control because that John Fadar is still driving the ship. And Cisca walks in, he says, he wants to know where they are now. And Dax says, I don't know.

Ask him. Ask the pilot. the founder says we're less than an hour away from the home world and Cisco says Dr. Bashir and he will be joining them when they go down to the planet and she says well it could be days this judgment could

take days and Cisco says I'm happy to wait yeah we'll wait so they're going to go down to the goo I hope there's more than goo they're going to be like doggy paddling treading water

yeah well the next scene is we're actually, it's basically like a single solitary formation of rock, maybe like 20 by 20 feet. I don't know. It's been not that big in the midst of this huge sea of changelings. And I guess it's kind of like, it's their guest room. Is it their guest room? Yes. When people come to visit, the rock is their guest room. Guest quarters, okay.

It's the color scheme of the sky. It's kind of golden hour. It's gorgeous. It's really nice. We're there with Odo and the female founder, and she says it's time. She and Odo walk into the water, basically. She goes first, and then Odo has a moment,

because he looks back, has a moment. Does he mean not to ever see them again? Right. They nod to each other sort of like, this might be the last thing. I might be, you know, whatever may happen to me, who knows. And so they, they, you know, it's a bit of a touching moment there, and he goes in.

It is? Yeah, he merges in. So this is a scene when they walk into the water. It's very simple. It's just like that earlier scene that I didn't like that was done very simplistically. Yes. But this scene done simplistically with some nuance and detail that had so much taste to it, that I thought this was a simple version done elegantly.

And that earlier scene was a simple version less elegantly. Got it opinion. Okay. This was beautiful. It had a crane shot and it was pretty directional except for the one cut back on the founder walking in and Odo turning around, but it was a very simple shot sequence, shot pattern. But it was beautiful. I love this first scene when Oda walks into the water.

It was great. Les Landau clearly cleared up his family issues, and he was able to direct the scene. Yeah, because, again, it's a similar approach in terms of its simplicity of directions and setups and things, but it just had... Elegance. Compositions and elegance and a little bit of push-ins here and there.

that just made it, I love this. It was a, the walking into the water moment was a big deal to me. And let's talk about the water. Let's talk about the undulation that they got in the CGI that made one think, made me think, yes, that could be a pool of sentient beings.

100%. Because we all know there was no water on the stage. There was a set, probably a green screen around it, and the stage floor. That's all that was there and a ramp. And they created a beautiful organic environment with the CG work that was really well done. It's great.

Okay. So now we have a bit of a passage of time. Bashir is wondering how long it's been. Cisco's lost track. He has, as Bashir says, so have I. And that's the point where Bashir is like messing around with the rock and or pebble. And he decides he's going to like skip it. He starts to cross the wall.

He starts to raise his hand back to throw it to skip the, like we all do on Earth. We skip the stone across the water, mindlessly. We don't even do it. We don't tell anyone that we're about to do it. We just do it, okay? And that's what he's about to do, but all that Cisco has to say is, doctor, give him a look, and that's the end of it. He's like, oh, right. It puts it down.

You don't want to throw that in the Ogoo. But the look on Sid's face was brilliant. He's like, oh, I just, I almost like threw a rock attitude. changeling basically on all the changelings on their head so it was a cute scene i laughed i laughed out loud yeah we go to the defiant corridor next and uh wharf and two security guards are marching down the corridor and suddenly wharf stops he says wait here goes inside this very small hatch yeah and we're inside a jeffrey's tube junction of the defiant where garrick is working on a panel and Worf grabs him.

Garrick makes a very passionate plea to finish the entire planet, finish off the, like, drop the bombs, do whatever it takes, end them once and for good, end this threat to all of them. Yeah. And I'm going to say his argument. It was very compelling to me. It was. I think Andy did a great job talking about how, what a threat they are to everyone. Yeah.

And they have an opportunity. But to do it would be at a cost. Yes. But then I've Worf's argument was. interesting because he says, well, what about Odo? Captain Sisko and Bashir? And Garek says, well, they'll die. And once the Jemadar realized what we're doing, so will we. So everyone's going to die, but we will save the Alpha Quadrant. So it was a compelling argument. That's a very compelling argument. Yeah. And Warf says, I'm a warrior, not a murderer. I'm not going to do this.

This is not right. And that's when Garik sort of. Yeah. Yeah. Garrick attacks Warf, silly man. But Garrick's a good fighter in this scene He turns out, he is He's a very good fighter In the very beginning I thought that Garrick was going to win I thought oh wow

He's going to take Warf out But then Warf got to have finally I did see the stunt doubles Fighting a little bit Yeah A couple of times But that's because we know We know

Yeah I didn't look for it I pretended like I didn't even know Anything about Hollywood You were all in I was all in I was happy But I think there are some

Brief moments When it's actually the two actors Yes I did too Yeah They did a lot of close-ups themselves, for sure. I do like Worf's last line when he says, you fight well for a Taylor.

Yeah, I mean, how many times do we have to see Gary B. less than a Taylor to come to the conclusion that he's not really just a tailor. Yes, exactly. You fought well for a Taylor and ex-gardener on the Romulan home world. Back on our guest quarters on the founder's planet, the Rock, Bashar's asleep. The sea is churning now, though, and Cisco wakes up.

Doctor wakes up the sheer, and out comes a naked Odo. What was that first thing that you guys saw? Remember that? The first thing we see, before he comes on to the, before he's washed ashore, he's in the midst of the goo, and he does this flailing. It's almost like, I thought that's the moment they turned him into human, where he's like that, like that he falls back in as it as human, right? Like he's birthed.

Did it read, did you guys read it as that as well? I didn't, but now that you say it, that makes perfect sense. Okay, all right. And then he gets washed up onto the guest quarters. Yeah. He washes up naked and they pull him up. And the founder comes out and she says Odo was judged. And basically, he's a solid now.

He got what he wanted. But she feels pity for him. Yeah. And also Bashir says he's taken a scan of Odo and he's gotten some strange readings. He's got heart. He's got lungs, a digestive. system, Bashir thinks it's almost as if he were human. It's not, it's not the old Odo goo inside there. But they beam up and we cut into the medical bay and Bashir's taking a

blood sample from Odo. Right when they're, when they say three to beam up, right at that moment, Odo raises up a little bit and brings his hand up. And it looked very similar to the pose in the Sistine Chapel of David. You know what I'm talking about that? There's a, there's a, there's Michelangelo's painting on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel of him almost in the same. Adam and God. Of Adams, exactly, almost in the same pose of what Odo was doing. I thought that was very interesting. And I wanted to add that the founder says he got what he wanted.

So he wanted to be human. So, okay, we gave it to him. Yeah. One of the things that I would have liked to have seen, and me being a backseat driver, is that when Odo, we talked about him coming out. up for a moment and then and then submerging and then coming up again yeah i would have liked this when he when after he submerged and came up a second time i would have liked for him to have coughed oh yes because uh he's gotten liquid into his now yeah well not liquid but changeling into his lung

so yeah yeah or gasping for air in a way that you would if you were coming up out of yes from one reality into another, especially if you're human now and not changing any longer. Now, that's a great point. So we go to the medical bay next and Bashir's taking a blood sample from Odo and sure enough, Odo does have blood, human blood. Bashir confirms. Yes. Type O. Yeah. Type O. I don't know my blood type. That's how you should. Probably go donate some blood and find out so you know. I should learn. Yeah. The interesting thing is that that the face isn't changed, though. They talk about that.

His face is the one thing. And I was very disappointed with that. I wanted to see a full René-Obeginois without the stupid makeup, you know, I'm sure Renee wanted that too. I'm sure he wanted that too, exactly. And I was like, man, this is, they missed out. And of course, they validate the reason

why his face hasn't changed. They think that it was left that way on purpose, that he would never forget that he was a changeling at one point and what he lost. But isn't it just his face? Because at the end of the scene, he looks at his arms and his hands, and they look human. And he used to have makeup and stuff put on those. And you can see his arm hair, too, his human arm hair, which you never got to see beforehand.

So, yes, it's just his face. But that's why, if you're going to change everything else on his body, come on writers, change his face to human too. I'd love to have seen René. Or something. If you're spending a lot of money on CGI, save some. money by making his face human and therefore saving time in the makeup chair for the rest of the show for the next three seasons thank you yeah i agree well we hear captain's log next cisco says captain's log start 8 49962.4 after leaving our gem hadar escorts at the edge of dominion space

the defiant has returned home but for the constable otto i'm afraid the journey has just begun so we're back on the on the space station we're in garick shop and otto is uh having to get a uniform because he he doesn't morph into the uniform anymore he's got to actually wear clothes he's wearing him for the very first time he says ironically he's been wearing that uniform for three or four years yes he's being fitted into the uniform he's been in for it's the same one it's the same Same exact close for the actor. But for Odo, he says, it's itchy.

Yeah, it's itchy. And he says, maybe I'm hungry, too, which is a call back to the first scene where he says, I don't eat. And he says, now he's got to do his job. Thanks, thanks, Garik, for doing his job and making him a uniform. And then he crosses.

He takes the Odo post. Yes. Now I've got to take you to jail. Garrick's going to go to jail, six months in a holding cell, which Odo thinks is very, light sentence and Garrick says so do I I do too but Garrick says you know my heart was in the right place I hope you know that and it's kind of like the founders justice like there's not

this is not a easy good guy bad guy because Garrick as we discussed made a pretty good good argument about why destroying the founders might be a good thing for everybody. It's not black and white. Shades of gray. Wharf was right. Don't let us spy onto the onto this station. Yes. It's going to cause a lot of trouble. Arroya arrives, our romantic interest for Odo from the first earlier in the episode. She's very sorry to hear what happened and offers, is there anything she can do to help? And there's, again, no subtext in that. offer it's all we are what she's offering well let's be honest at this point we're all thinking

he's human now he can have nookie so you couldn't do it before he can do it now what does she say eventually you'll see how being a humanoid has its advantages very not not very subtly yeah but otto just takes uh takes garrick off to the brig and uh that is the end of that that and and i understand the reason for that scene but it didn't make any sense that for me after what garrick did that he would be allowed to go back to his tailor shop there wasn't a guard i suppose there was in the sense that odo was there but um but there wasn't anyone monitoring this is a guy who's incredibly evasive and uh there wasn't anyone watching over him that he didn't escape because he must know what the justice is and and they must have told him yeah

you know what the verdict was yeah so um it didn't really make sense it didn't really make sense yeah well we cut to the promenade on the station otto's uh heading onto the promenade cisco runs into him ask if he's okay he's he's off you know he's kind of holding his head and he says oh i think i've just got a headache and then otto admits in the scene that he still has flashes of the great length and um cisco says you know you don't need to work right away I take some time, you know, get better. And Odo says, no, I need to work. No, he's emphatic.

It's more than just that. He's infantic. Yes, I do. Because that's all that's left in. And again, a good choice by Ray. For sure. Yes, I do. That's all he has now.

That's all he has. Right. That's all he has. And it's a very vulnerable and extended speech here he's given about being connected to his people for the first time in his life. He really felt connected to all of them. And he's, he's having some regrets. He's sad that he might be able to rejoin them again.

And all he has is his job now. Well, his regret is in that line. And then in an instant, it was all snatched away. I'm trapped in this body. That's when he's, the realization is really hitting him now. Yeah, very sad. Cisco tries to make him feel better by saying, you know what? You're the best constable in the whole quadrant.

You know, if that's what you've got, if your job is all you've got, you're the best one at it. And so he's trying. It's a weak attempt, I guess. It's a nice gesture. It's a nice gesture, but doesn't compare it to the great link in that experience. No. Gowron pops onto the monitor now, right?

Is that what happens? Yeah, a crowd is sort of rumbling, and they look over, and the crowd's gathered around a monitor. Gowron's making an announcement. But before we get into Gowron, one of the things that Odo says, and I think is important for this moment that you're about to discuss he says i felt like it was home that i understood my people uh there and this is the important point they're distrust of the solids which uh is a subtle reference to what we're about to uh experience in the show at the very end what galran is about to say yes yes yes yeah well they hear this crowd rumbling they all look over

Gowron's making this announcement on a screen and they listen in. He basically says, in 10 days, any Starfleet found in this sector will be considered enemies and they will be fired upon. He's basically declaring war. And he says, Arcanus is ours and any resistance will be an act of war. And that's when Odo has a memory. This triggers a memory of the Great Link. And he says, wait a minute, they were trying to hide something from me when I was connected. And it's Gowron. He remembers seeing Gowron in that connection. The head of the Klingon Empire is a changeling.

Oh, that says. Dun, dun, dun. Whoa. Huge. Gowron's a changeling? Huge. Is that true, Armin? And that's the end of the season.

You spoke volumes in not speaking, Amen. Thank you. All right. So now we know. So now we know that this may not even be right. But still, it's a dun-d-da-d-d-d-moment for anyone watching. We're all thinking, holy moly, the changelings have infiltrated the highest level of the Klingon Empire. So it's a big, it's perfect for a season finale, definitely, because it's just that huge cliffhanger.

Huge. And I have to think, what was Bob O'Reilly thinking when he read that first? He was thinking, I'm going to get a lot more days, I've said. I'm going to be working a lot on DS9. Yeah, I bet he was. Theme, lesson, moral. Yeah, what is your lesson for this episode? My takeaway from this episode is there is always going to be something that you have to give up to get what you really want.

Hmm. I like that. That's my takeaway. Oh, thank you. I like, that's a really good one. Armand, do you have one? I did not, I've come up with something, but it's weak. I thought about this for a good half hour,

and I could not really find a theme. But I finally came up with something, as I said, that's weak. And that is, the theme is the contemplation of human complexities. The contemplation of human complexities. Okay. Yeah. That, that, that Odo was dealing with his complexities, the founders were dealing with theirs.

the crew was was dealing with theirs. But as far as something to take away as a moral thing like Esop's fables to have a, you know, I just thought,

I can't find one. I'm just too stupid. I just can't. No, it's a complicated episode. And I think that's kind of where I leaned into with the idea that, you know, life experience is complicated and it's not as simple as

getting what you want because you give something up, you know, that that's how complicated life is, is that there's good and bad with every experience of growth, I guess. And, and again, as you said earlier, about justice as well, there's, there's fault on both sides. And where, where is the justice? Where, where is the meaningful resolution to this complicated problem? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Garrett, what about you? Yeah, mine is, uh, mine is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. because forever Odo's been

yay solids I'm team solid and then now that he connects with the link he's like oh I understood my people for the very first time now I realize

why they distressed solids and I realize so all this stuff and beforehand like I said he was very adamant about okay I don't want to stay on the

home world of the changelings at all I want to be with my people who are the DS9 people so I feel like that's the lesson for me is that it's not always you know it's not always about keeping up with the neighbors and and and thinking that someone else has it better than you do when in reality sometimes you do have the best situation but uh yeah so that's mine my mind went to quantum physics with all of this

and the founders and it's sort of the great link and how everything is just to energy reimagining itself in different forms and you know um it is and in a way i don't think godo appreciated that until his form was limited the way it is now. Yes. If I may make an analogy, he says, now I'm trapped in this body, which, of course, all of a sudden he finds out what he wanted because that's what the founder says. This is what he wanted.

Yeah. And now he's gotten what he's wanted, and he found out it's less than perfect. The analogy that I would make is perhaps the two of you will agree with me, perhaps not. All of us as actors always wanted to get on a series. and have a series, you know, run forever. And so when we got it, I'm sure there were days when you went, I'm trapped in this series.

I can't get out. Days. What about years? Yeah. I remember having, when I was producing the show Chuck, we did that show for five years. And Yvonne Strahofsky, who's going on to a great career now, Handmaid's Tale and many other things. but Yvonne around

late season two or maybe season three she was having one of those days where she had been offered another movie or some other job that she couldn't take because of Chuck yeah and she was just I remember sitting on a set I think we broke for lunch and everybody

walked away and she was just like I'm just it's so hard to want to be here because I keep missing these other opportunities I remember saying to her on the point that you're talking about, Armin, having been on a Star Trek show, and then it went away and realizing, oh, this isn't forever. And I said to her, I said, Rivan, the best thing you can do for your future career, whatever that is, you're going to get other things, is to give 110% now and be present now, because this is going to go away. This show is, it may seem like forever to you right now in season two or three.

it'll be gone in a blink of an eye and have some appreciation and presence and be here for the conversations, the creativity, do the best you can, and that'll guarantee that you get those things in the future. But if you start not showing up and giving everything you've got here, that will follow you. Those habits will follow you and the reputation will follow you. And it won't help you to get where you want to go and she changed like and she said to me when the show was over she said that conversation we had around and halfway through she said really made a difference for me because I I always thought the grass was greener I always thought you know this wasn't what I wanted I wanted something else oh missing that something else and she goes that was the

best conversation because I I had such a better experience after you know the second half of the series than I did that first couple of years that were really I thought I got to move on I got to move on quickly I got to go do something else I got to be a size you're wise beyond your years well uncle uncle Robbie you played counselor Deanna Troy for Yvonne Strahofsky is what you did you sat there and she's awesome yeah she's great I love her she's awesome too yeah I agree yeah so that's that is my that's my theme and that is the end of our episode, right? What is our Patreon poll, though? They've got some deep thoughts. They do. I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to hearing.

To the Patreon poll? It really did stump me. Okay. The Patreon poll winner for theme slash moral slash winner slash lesson of this episode is submitted by Alex Ray. You can't avoid the consequences of your actions. Hmm. That's kind of in the vein of what you were talking about Armin, in terms of complexities of justice. Yeah. Thank you for everyone for tuning in to our recap and discussion of this episode, Broken Link. Please join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode Apocalypse

Rising with Armin yet again. Thank you again, Armin, for hosting with us today. And we look forward to seeing you next time for Apocalypse Rising. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay. tuned for your bonus material. And for everyone else, see you next time.