The Delta Flyers - Captive Pursuit

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

The Delta Flyers is a weekly podcast hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode is Captive Pursuit.Captive Pursuit: O'Brien helps an alien from the Gamma Quadrant as hunters descend on the station searching for their humanoid prey.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Janet K Harlow, Brian Barrow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Vikki Williams, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Matt Norris, & Izzy JafferOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Chris Knapp, Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Gravens, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Mary Jac Greer, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Tom Paynter, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Steven Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Mars DeVore, Stephanie Lee, & David SmithAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Meredith Hudes-Lowder, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Species 2571, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Samantha Hunter, Jamason Isenburg, Ashley Stokey, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jennifer Jelf, Justin Weir, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Ryan Benoit, John Richardson, Rachel Shapiro, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Ryan Tomei-Siguroarson, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Shane Pike, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Akash Patel, Linda Daireaux, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Preston Meyer, Lisa Hill, Stacy Davis, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Pamela Miller, Rik Moran, Jan Hanford, Connie Lira, Loretta ReyesThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Dax, Quark, Tom, and Harry. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. For the complete and amazing version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Welcome, gentlemen and lady. Hello. Well, hello, sir. Hello. Hello, Terry.

Terry, the way that your background, it's like an explosion of happiness. I don't know where it is, right? But NASA. Is that right? This is amazing. By the way, did you hear NASA just release this recording of a black hole what it sounds like?

No. It is the craziest. thing. I don't know if it's like a wormhole, so maybe it applies to DS9, but there's a sat, they've recorded the sound. How do they know that? Wow. One of their things, one of their a probe went all the way out there and recorded the sound for NASA. That's amazing. Or maybe a telescope. Can you tell me what it sounds like? It sounds scary as all get out. It's a scary sound. To me, it was, it was terrifying. I heard my neighbor's wall, stop at this. Supporting wall. structural wall

fall down. I was in my house in L.A. at the top of Franklin and Kings Road. And I just, it sounded like an apocalypse. And I was like, oh my God, what is this? I go outside and the wall had fallen

into the driveway. And I was like, oh, not my driveway. Yeah, there's some sounds that like, you don't even have to know what it is. The sound is terrified. It's bad. That's what a black Cole sounds like yeah how did they record it though

I don't know magic NASA has NASA magic yeah NASA magic clearly JPL magic all right so it is now time for us to say happy birthday to those people who have upcoming birthday so Robbie

why don't you take the first one yeah Jonathan Brooks January 12th Jonathan happy birthday on January 12th that's Rebecca's birthday's January 12th there you go happy birthday Jonathan and Rebecca really we should say that too while we're at it oh if we don't say her name and she's editing this episode she'll be like I cannot believe I didn't say my name. We have another birthday and that would be Seth Carlson so happy birthday to Seth Carlson then two days later

not the next day January 14th happy birthday Seth. Happy birthday Seth. Okay for our last birthday we have dat cow whose birthday is on January 18th happy birthday. Happy birthday. Day, Dad. Happy birthday. All right. Are you guys ready to talk about this week's episode? I have my notes. You got your notes.

Terry's got her notes. She has a... I am not. We've never show our notes to the screen. You just show how the sausage is made. You all are like 21st century, and I am not. You've got a spiral notebook. That's the official Terry Farrell.

Terry still uses a feather quill. She uses the quill to write. her notes down. Yes. Okay. Captive pursuit. Captive pursuit. Here we go.

Let's start off, as we always do, with our poetry synopsis. And here is my haiku, and it will be followed by Robbie's limerick for captive pursuit. Here we go. My haiku for captive pursuit. Tosk, always running. O'Brien's pen, Tosk, teller. Quark helps change the rules. I don't know if you guys even got that

at all, did you? So what I said was, did you get it? Yes. Well, I watched the episode. All right. No, but my reference to Penn and Teller, the magicians, because Penn I worked for them. Yes.

Oh, so you know. And Tosk really doesn't speak much. So he's telling me that. Not so much. Yeah. All he says is I am Tosk, basically. Yes, he does. And he says it a lot.

I think this episode should be called instead of captive. Captive Pursuit. It should be called I Am Tosk. Well, do you guys? Yes. But what else in filmed entertainment is similar to that? Guys, it's very obvious. I am Groot.

Yes. Here comes my Limerick. O-A-Tri synopsis. Here we go. There's a Davo Girl pissed by quark sexual advances and a lost alien in some rough circumstances. miles kind of adopts him then the hunter guy stops him to save his honor miles must sometimes take chances very nice thank you thank you very much it rhymes it all rhymes it checks out

my end mine and you have a poem i do i do i know i'm getting i'm getting in the rhythm of actually doing all my home i have a lot of work to do tomorrow morning before I see you again, but let's go. What you got? Ready? Yeah. O'Brien welcomes a nervous stranger. A trustworthy being or does he bring danger?

Language is a barrier here. Look out. The hunters are near. Tosks life. His culture is at stake. O'Brien saves the day. Let them eat cake. I like, I like it.

I really like it. You've got some poetry. Yeah. You got some real. Let the meat cake. I'm like, I'm done. Yeah. I've already said three hours trying to make this work.

I know. It's harder than I thought. But really creatively. Yeah. That is fine. Yeah. It doesn't matter that it's not perfect. No, it doesn't.

A mental exercise. I thank you both for. Yes. I love it. I love that you're doing it. I love our poems. And the different aspects that they sort of lean into or capture. Yes.

You both said things that I was like, yes, but I didn't. That wasn't resonated with me, but I got it, what you were saying. Cool, cool. Okay, let's jump right in. Teleplay is by Jill Sherman, Donner, and Michael Pillar. Story by Jill Sherman Donner. I wonder if any relation to Richard Donner. Okay. I know. I thought the same thing. Yeah. Maybe. Just wondering. Directed by my old teacher, Corey Allen. And right off the bat, I wanted to ask you, how, what's your, how did, how was it working with Corey for you? Yeah. What do you remember about Cory Allen? If you remember anything, I don't know. It's been so long. You're saying his name. If I could just see his picture, I feel like I would. You're like me, Terry. I couldn't remember. I was, I'm a visual person. So I'm like, oh, shit, I know his name.

I just can't... Well, Corey Allen directed a lot of TNG. He did a bunch of them. Yeah. And he was a veteran older director. I don't have a feeling like, er. I don't have a bad feeling about him. I just don't remember what he looked like.

There you go. Oh, I liked him. Yeah. Because... I liked him a lot. I just remember seeing his picture. I remember him feeling easy. Yeah.

He was very experienced. I bet he was very... You know, capable and relaxed, yeah. And what makes him a good director and what makes Robbie a good director is that they were former or they started as actors. And there's Mr. Corey Allen in Rebel Without a Cause with James Dean. He played the main bad guy, Biff, in that movie. So that's cool and crazy.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And, you know, the most amazing story, I've told it before, but I'll tell it you now because you probably don't know it. When he auditioned for Rebel Without a Cause, it was probably a group of like 30 other guys that were in the callback audition. And the director said, we're going to have the audition

at Hollywood High and the bleachers out of the football. Oh my gosh. And they're like, what? So they're all there. And the director's like, everyone's thinking,

are we going to run lines here? Are we going to do the script? He's like, no, nothing to do with script. I want all of you to get, go up to the top of the bleachers and come back down. And on my mark.

And he goes, go. And all of them are like running. And I'm falling over each other. Everything, pop, pop, pop, pop, they run up and they run back down. They think it's a race. right? But everyone's like, out of breath, and you just hear one person, clunk, glunk, glunk. He's stepping down. He didn't run. He walked slowly up and he walks slowly down. And that was Cori Allen.

He got the job because of that. Wow. Because he was in character. Well, he was in character and he marched to the beat of a different drum. He didn't care. Yeah. Yeah. So that was. No, but the guy would never have run down. Exactly. No. That character would have never run. He's the main bad guy. He's the leader of the guy. Yeah, he's not going to, all the one, he's the one holds in a pace. That's right. That's right. Exactly.

That's very cool. Oh, I love that story. Yeah. But you remember how warm he was, right? Cori Allen was someone who could really make you feel comfortable, you know, you didn't. He's like that really kind grandfather kind of figure, you know, he was there for you and just warm. That's what it was. Awesome.

He was one of those guys that could put their arm around me and I wouldn't feel like, me too. Yeah, exactly. No, you felt safe. Am I right? Yeah. You felt safe. That's a great way to put it. Yeah.

We also have guest stars. Garrett Graham, Robbie, you know that name. He played Q2 in Voyager. So that was somebody we already have, you know, work experience with. And Scott McDonald, another person that worked on Voyager. Yeah. And Kelly Curtis. That's our other guest star there.

And Scott was the lead, right? Scott played Tosk. Yes. Okay. Can I just tell you something? You might already know this. but um my dear makeup artist michael westmore i'm sure you've heard of him yes we've heard um won an emmy for the makeup of task oh no i didn't know that yes and the original makeup was too expensive and they

had to downgrade it but isn't it crazy yeah wow yeah that's very cool yeah an emmy for that how many emys michael westmore has he's probably a lot ready to count oh oh my god um he has an It's above his bar, and it's like, well, I've been to his house. You've been to his house? I've never been to his house. I took Max and my husband, Brian, my first husband, we all went there. And Max was like, I want to say like 10 when we went. But his Emmys and his Oscar.

Yeah, he's got Oscars too. I know. Yeah. Can you take Robbie and I next time? there they are yes yes just take us yeah we'd like to go yes we'll be your 10 year old children you guys are going to have to fly to l.A when I do the documentary for him okay I'll show you I will I'm sure you won't mind but I wanted I wanted you to know that and also that that was the number four um for all of our ratings that episode was number four in

um of that season for the whole season yeah wow wow that was very popular yeah yeah yeah it was it was a great episode but i think it was a one two three four thing yeah okay and then we go right where are they going anywhere but anyway while we're still here yeah yes we uh all right we start with an exterior space shot of the gorgeous station and now we're in cisco's office miss sarda A Dabo girl is basically filing a sexual harassment complaint with Commander Sisko. And unfortunately, it's in the contract that sexual advances are loud. But Ben does assure her that she will have a talk with Quark and rectify this situation. I love the one bow in her hair, Robbie.

That one single bow on her forehead right there. She was really good. Does it not say hello, kitty? It does. That's what I was thinking. I didn't want to say it. But there you go. Nice.

Okay. I also love how she says, she talks about her contract and says something like, he showed me my employment agreement, see there in Ferengi print, page 21, subsection D, paragraph 12. And I thought, 21 page, my Voyager contract wasn't 21 pages. Like, that's a long contract. Wow, those Ferengi really love a contract. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

But this scene was so different from what, you know, I mean, from Voyager or TNG in that, it was so much more real life, I felt. You know, it was sort of like, yeah, this is. It felt very relatable, like, like contemporary situations. Like, did you, do you remember, Robbie, any scene that was like a meeting with HR like this was? Not really, right? I mean, we didn't have anything like that. I felt, you know, not like this, so.

By the way, this is a scene, I don't think, spoiler alert, but I don't think anything else in the episode refers to this scene. no like there's it has nothing to do with a plot no no and honestly watching it i would think at the time it would have been like well that's a fantasy of what life is like yeah being a woman that like who would have listened to me certainly not a man yeah about like this is injustice right now i think that would have just i'm not even going to have that conversation right now yeah Yeah. First season. Now, six season. But first season, not having that conversation. I'm never going to win it. So it's kind of remarkable that it's even in there. Yeah. But it does paint not a very rosy picture of Ferengis. Right. I mean, and of Armin specifically, or Armin's character. And we know Armin personally. So it's really hard to like, you know, Armine's so not. It's like completely the opposite of work.

Exactly. Yes, he is. That's why it's so weird to watch this and see that, you know, he's he's, he's that guy. But in real life, he's not that guy. So that's not at all. No, he's very respectful of women. Sisko gets a call near the end of the scene from Kira saying they're picking up elevated

neutrino readings as he heads towards the ops bridge. He's got his last line to Kira. And I noticed he was walking really slow. past the camera so that he can get the whole line out. And I was like, I hate when they do that. I'm stuck in molasses. He's like,

and I've been on both sides of this. Like, I've been directing. Walk slow. Talk fast. Yes. Yeah, get your whole line out just before you exit the camera. I saw Avery. But don't you get good at it?

You get really good at it. He was very good at it. He did a good job. Yeah. But I was just like, why is he walking slow when there's yellow? He literally is saying, put us on yellow.

The urgency? Yes. Like his line's saying there's an emergency, but he's walking half speed. Technical difficulties. Yes. Yeah. So we go to ops next. Cisco's arriving at ops.

They're picking up these readings of the damaged ship. Yeah. And then they pull it up on screen and there's this alien, which will learn is Tosk. And he's very nervous. He was following one of the DS9 ships through the wormhole he explains and his ship is in trouble. camera's shaking a lot on his side. They're trying to convince him to let them help repair it. He finally agrees.

They tractor him in and Cisco asked O'Brien to find out why he was so nervous. Yeah. But they wanted to beam him off originally. And he says, absolutely not. I will not leave my ship. And so that's when O'Brien suggests using a tractor beam. Yeah. And by the, I had a question, Terry.

Yeah. For the first time, I was aware of the background in ops, the background actors. I was aware that they were there. This is where I wish we were seeing it at the same time we're talking about it. Well, it's more of a general question. Like on Voyager, we had the same background on the bridge all the time. It was the same people pretty much. We had very established background.

Did you have that on DS9? Did you have the same people in ops often? I would have to venture to say not always. Yeah. A lot of times if they could, they would use. stand-ins so that they would get paid more money to be, you know, just like there's episodes where there's a calm, maybe I'm not in the episode, but my voice is in it. But that way I still get the residual, which I think is an amazing thing that the production did. But no, I honestly

think by the end of the day when those kind of things were shot, it was like, who's here? Just get them here. And other than our stand-ins, it wasn't always the same. I mean, I'm sure there were like predominantly the people that when we got to a certain place that were the same people, but this is the very beginning of the series. So, yeah, there were people that I went like, other than stand-ins, there was nobody that I thought. Oh, I know you. Yeah. No, but there were stand-ins that I thought, oh, yay, there's Robin, or, you know what I mean? I know. I love that when the stand-in is had an opportunity to play a role or do something.

Yeah. Yeah. And that also has to do with the fact that we, you guys could have replacements, you know, we couldn't have replacements. We're in the Delta Quadrant. So nobody else could come in. There's only 130 people always. That's why we have the same people.

Oh, 100%, right? Whereas is very, DS9, people can travel. It's, yeah, it's fluid. Yeah. People come in. It's totally transient. Yes. Yeah, which is great for whoever's hiring.

Extra background. They could use anyone. Anybody who got lucky. I had another thought in this scene. It's just a thing that kind of bugged me a little bit. So this toss guy, they literally say this is a species from the gamma quadrant that they've never, they have no data on this species. But yet somehow the universal translator is able to translate them communicate.

how can he speak English and the universal translator is the way that that would happen that we would hear in English the computer would translate it but they say they don't have any data on this species they don't have any... So you're saying that the universal translator would not be able

to translate his language because it's not even in the database. It's not even that's what you hit me. But then I also thought you know what on Voyager we ran into species all the time that weren't in the database so how did it work then? So some AI is able to figure out their language. Yeah, I guess.

There's some things we have to let go because they're going to say, it's television. It's Star Trek. Deal with it. It's a universal translator. Yeah. Cisco kind of orders O'Brien. He doesn't order. He just says, why don't you head down there? Maybe he'll feel more comfortable seeing just one person.

And as he goes over to the docking port, O'Brien arrives. And did you notice as the door closed behind him, it bounced? It didn't do the No. I was like We had Will Tom's Who was your door guy on DSA? I am not

I am not going to give them up What a thankless job is that? Maybe he got fired after this episode When someone else came in and took his place We had one guy Will Tom That did the doors Will was a master

How did he do both sides? His whole job was because it was on a pulley system No, we didn't need to We had one person. Yeah. Well. They made it so that the police system would just open and close the door. One person can do it.

You guys had two. So maybe the second person made it bounce. How many people does it take? To screw in a light. On Deep Space 9, two, on your show, one. We only, we only are the Delta Guadro. This is saying that we progressed from Deep Space 9 to your show. Yeah, technology is that's true.

That's a very good thing. thing. O'Brien walks into the ship. He can't find the alien. Nowhere. The captain, the pilot of this ship is nowhere to be seen. And Dax does check sensors from ops and confirms that the alien is indeed present on board this ship.

There's life science. Yeah, there's life science. O'Brien does say a few calming words to the invisible alien and starts to troubleshoot the damage. He opens up his hatch and realizes that he's never seen systems like these in his entire life. He sees something. I love, by the way, when Corey Allen is. directing this. He had some really nice shots. And this was one. I loved when it was down on the deck

under the desk. And O'Brien's kind of walking around. It was that low, wide angle. I thought it was very graphic, very Star Trek. I thought it was great. And it helped the tension, too. Because he didn't cover it. He didn't cover Miles. It was just this tableau with Miles sort of looking around. And how is he so relaxed? He's so relaxed. And there's an entity in there. He doesn't know. who's incredibly nervous. Yeah. This is like how my son would take this. He's very,

yeah, he could be jumped at any second, but he's very trusting. I would be nervous. Yeah. And he opens it. Here's the thing about O'Brien. His sleeves are rolled up. So he's ready.

He's ready. He's ready to get on the flight with their sleeves down. They would not be ready, but he's ready for business. That's why he had Tosk Bond, because Tosk also has some rolled up. Oh, that's right.

I think you noticed that. Yes. Wow. Yes. I wonder if Bob Blackman thought about that, said like, oh, they're going to connect? Maybe. Let's have Toss character be.

You know what? I like that detail. I do. I do. I don't know if it's true, but let's make it so. Let's say that it's, let's make it so. Let's assume that that is correct.

In our world, it works. Yes. As he opens up this hatch and he realizes that he's never seen these systems before, he sees something that looks like a plasma injector. He's like, well, that kind of looks like a plasma injector. injector. Then it shows a shot of it. And it's got that spinning blue light. All I could think about was the old Kmart blue light special light that was spinning around. That's what I caught from that. I was like, oh. And suddenly I'm seven. They incorporated that. Yeah. It went back to my

pass. The alien does appear kind of out of thin air over, over his shoulder. And he says the caledrium flow has been damaged, which then causes his head. O'Brien's head to hit. Yeah. It's like a classic, like somebody working under a car or something. He bunks his head. It was very funny. Most definitely. Well, O'Brien does introduce himself to him, and we find out that he is, the IAM-Tosk line comes out. The I am Groot line comes out.

The first time, one of many times. One of many times. Yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep. They do leave together to give the reactor time to cool. O'Brien asked about the damage to the hole, and Tosk says, oh, it happened traveling through the wormhole, which is a problem. bit of a white lie, I suppose, but we don't know what's happening yet.

It's a lie. It's a straight up lie, yes. I love the, I love the bit, though, when he says, I am Tosk, where Miles is like, wait, is that your species? Is that, what is that your name is your name of your species? And he just keeps going, I am Tosk, yeah. Okay. Tell me, what point is it where you just kind of realize that he's, he gets English for a second? there is at one point with toss like piece of cake that stuff right later was that

you're saying yeah that's when he starts catching up on idioms and little slang things like he's starting but by the way so he's really intelligent is what i was getting this this character who like tossk who is this kind of an alligator yes reptilian or something i said dinosaur it looked like almost like a dinosaur all of them look dinosaurs yeah um what they said in the whole thing that i was reading about michael westmore was that it was inspired by an alligator oh okay yeah which is clear when you look at it but i could you could say armadillo yeah this could be an armadillo kind of thing going on yeah armadillos are shy like tosk armadillos are kind of shy and tusk is a little You know the other thing

I love about Tosk? He just doesn't speak English. He just doesn't speak English. And all he keeps saying is I am Tosk. I did notice Tosk looks back when the door. This is a futile. Yes. When the Roli doors, the big gear doors shut.

He looks back at the gear door. He looks back. He's very interested in the gear roly doors, which I am also interested. I love those doors. I've said it since the pilot. Yeah. Those are cool doors. So I'm with Tosk on this.

It is. Maybe he looked back because he's, he initially looked over and said, hey, it bounces when it closes. But this time, it didn't bounce is why he was back. He's very interested in the bouncing part. Joe had a day off, but Brian was in there and he got it done. They had a backup door guy. That's what happened.

They walked through a security little zone and an alarm goes off. And my God, Scott McDonald making up those moves of like, they were awesome. It was so amazing. He's terrified. His, yeah, his like defensive thing. But the moves look like dance moves to me. That was so cool how he was, his physicality that he found in that character was a good job, Scott McDonald.

Good job. Very talented actor. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I really like that. But the alarm goes off because O'Brien's carrying a weapon. That's right. The phaser.

He says it's, but he says it's only a defensive weapon. I'm not going to hurt you. So I thought that was interesting. I didn't know. Maybe that's why O'Brien was so relaxed in the thing because he knew he was armed. That's right. He could just pick that up. Interesting.

Maybe. Handle business. He does walk past Bashir. Tosk is very animal-like when he, and he sniffs Bashir. Did you see that? Yeah, he does. This is the only time where close talking works because it's Tosk. He can do that.

He can get right up onto Bashir and get his scent, basically. Oh, but how about you're just like you're doing this whole physical thing right now? i am you're turning into turning into him basically you're turning a little reptilian i'm turning i'm doing the task yeah thank you and and the other thing that's interesting is he does tell tusk that he's the first visitor from the other side so this is that doesn't make sense because didn't they say they've had five or six ships a day coming in so like how does that possible but i think that means that alpha quadrant ships have gone have gone to the gamma quadrant and then come back. So no one from the, no one from Gamma has come here on their own accord. That's what he says.

You're the first. Chips have gone out and come back. Remember, remember that we moved closer to the wormhole. So before we were close to the wormhole, there might have been ships coming in and out that we didn't even know about. True. That's true. That's true. But this is the first one. I know. I just thought of it. So I'm just saying we're close to it now. Harry, if you just thought of that and you, you hadn't thought of it before, we could go back and reshoot this. episode if you want to do something different let's do that yes let's do that uh we have a couple episodes if they can make carrie fisher look young they can make all three of us look young so i've seen i've got the zoom filter that does that it's not that it's not no no i wouldn't trade for what

i've learned no no me too me too uh tusk is being escorted by o'brien to some guest quarters but Tosk only wants to work on his ship. And O'Brien thinks he needs to sleep. Tosk says, I only need 17 minutes of sleep per cycle. 17 minutes. I know. Boy, if we all operated like that, that'd be amazing.

I would love that. I can't tell you how many shows on Netflix I would be able to binge watch. You sleep for 17 minutes and you're good for 24 hours. Yeah, it's amazing. O'Brien basically says to him, he can ask the computer for anything that he needs if he wants food this that and after o'brien leaves tost does talk to the computer and he asked for for a map of the station and then specifically a location of where the weapons are stored and kind of leaves us in a commercial break where we're

like uh oh he might be evil what's going on did you did you think not Tosk not Tosk I was upset that the bed in Tosk's quarters. Yes. The bed was that coffin-shaped bed? Yes. What is the same bed that Tuvok had in our finale episode? They must have stored this bed for seven years or more and then used it in Tuvok. We have the same exact bed.

Oh. It's the Cardassian bed. It's a caesarian-shaped bed. I have spoiler alerts, but I cannot do it. But it's shaped. in the same. Like a coffin. Yes. You know, creepy. Cardassian and coffin both begin with C. So it makes sense from that angle. It looks very uncomfortable to me. It does. It doesn't look like there's any

squish to that mattress. It looks like a really just, no. And there's not a lot of room for shenanigans. Yeah. And you need room for shenanigans. Even Cardassians. What are you referring to? What is a shenanigans? A king-sized bed. You need a king-sized bed to move around. Yes, for shenanigans. For shenanigans? I'm so glad.

I don't think we've had shenanigans in our podcast before. Okay. Moving on for shenanigans. Let's move it on. Go to the commander's office. Miles tells Cisco that he just doesn't quite trust this toss guy. Like he likes him, but there's something, something, you know, off. And he says to the captain, he says, someone shot his ship.

Like this was, this was a weapons fire. Not wormhole fire. Not wormhole damage. Damage, yeah. And he's like, this guy didn't tell the truth. Yeah. But I like him. Yeah, there was kind of an edgy thing about him, wasn't there?

Yes. Yeah. But Cisco says basically stay close to him. And he says, I'll also make sure Odo stays close to him as well. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. In the middle.

He does. He says, I forgot. Yeah. Which, of course. course, he ends up later on. But O'Brien in the middle of the scene says, you know, there's an old saying. A man who is always looking over his shoulder is waiting for trouble to find him. And I felt like because Colm is Irish, did they, was that a like a recurring thing? There's

an old saying, like an Irish. Did they do that, Terry? No, no, we're going to find out. We are going to find out. We are. It reminded me of like, Harry saying there's an old Chinese saying. Harry saying there's not Chinese. Did you say that? Yes. And I thought he was Chinese. I don't know because I didn't see every single episode that aired.

Yeah, Harry said there's an old Chinese saying quite a few times. Robert Beltran, Tricote, said, my people have a saying. Yeah. Yes. My people. My people. This is a little bit of an Irish saying. There's an old saying.

He didn't say Irish, but I feel like. Well, he has the accent. It's quite natural. It's implied. It's implied. Yeah. All right. We're inside Tos ship again.

Yes, we are. Now we have the bonding scene between O'Brien and Tosk, where they start to learn each other's names for different ship systems and idioms like piece of cake. O'Brien says that the damage can be fixed really easily. And my issue with this scene was as they crawl out of the little engine room or whatever it is, you can see that the skin on the back of Tos. Yeah, it's moving and folding.

and it's undulating and it's like oh it's like you can tell that's fake you know what I'm saying so that's yeah it's rubber and that was my one but except for that moment that was this was the best makeup that we had seen oh head on it was amazing of course head on but but doing his

neck skin his lips great there was no that feels like a wardrobe thing should have covered it yeah or maybe they should have glued it down onto it down more yeah glued it down to his back maybe head back here

Maybe. Maybe he said, I will not shave my back hair. And they were like, fine. Because why my partner loves that. My partner thinks this is it. This is it. Yes. Okay.

So you're not shaving it. Maybe he didn't even have a back. Yeah. Maybe that's why I folded. There was no back. Did you also find it? But it's possible. Does it feel like Friday night to you guys?

It's not. It's not. But it's not. It's not. The other thing that's weird is O'Brien says that as his crew finishes work on the repairs, he's going to offer to buy Tosk a drink. And I'm like, what crew? There's no one else in that scene.

Where are they? It was weird. Yeah, there was nobody else. There are inconsistent moments. Yes. Yes. I feel like Miles does that a lot. On all of our shows.

Yes, on all of them. But Miles does that a lot where he'll talk about like in that episode. where all the things were breaking and he was overwhelmed with all the repairs. And it was like he was the only one pretty much. I mean, there was a couple of people now and then, but Yeah. Who wouldn't be overwhelmed?

Yeah. Well, he's probably on the same time zone he was on from whatever film he was about to film or filming or whatever. Yeah, he worked a lot, didn't he? He was always in and out. Yeah. Okay, so we go to Quarks.

They're going to get a drink. At the very beginning, there's a group shot where they go, Dobbo! they all and they're laughing and then they continue laughing and they walk away they walk away laughing hysterical and i'm like is is it funny to win i don't get that yeah yeah like if you win the game is that the most hysterical thing or it just was a strange yeah it was a little it was a hysterical laughter was okay we have to talk afterwards about how you guys watch this versus how i watch it because you're saying this and I'm like I don't remember that yeah yeah I just

look for weird to me that probably wasn't weird weird things that I'm like that wasn't weird for me that was weird for you then right right so that just didn't seem yeah but but this is this the same the first time O'Brien says bar keep yes this is what he goes bar keep and then and quark is like don't call me bar keep I mean he comes in there really hard with that. And I wrote down on my notes, O'Brien is mean to quark. And I don't know what the backstory is here. I don't know how it got to this point.

But there's definitely some weird relationship where O'Brien doesn't give Cork the time of day, it seems. You know, he's a little pissy. It seemed to me he didn't know Cork. Really? That he was just the barkeep. Like, just barkeep. Okay.

He's an English, Irish guy who's just like, whatever, just bring my freaking beer. I don't care. I don't know you I don't care who you are why am I respecting you it didn't seem that he knew that quarks was that was quark who was quirks

but then he does say he does say he's like to toss he goes this quark is the guy who's going to prey on all your devices oh it's not devices yes he talks about so I feel like

and his devices he's going to he's going to take advantage of your vices yeah does he just not respect quark I think it's that. I think he doesn't respect him. I think he knows exactly who he is. So you're right. He was just being mean to him.

Yeah, because he feels like he's kind of slimy, you know, in a way. He's like a used car salesman is the way that I feel like he feels. He kind of is. Well, think about the first scene with the 21-page contract and the stuff in the he. Yeah. Come on. Right.

That's why. That's why O'Brien's mad. That's why the scene was in it. Yeah. To motivate O'Brien to be mad to work. All right. So Quark is trying to interest Tosk in a short fantasy adventure in a holosuite. And a Toss responds. He says, I have no need for that because I live the greatest adventure one could ever desire. And I thought, oh, my gosh. As a viewer, you're wondering like, what is he doing? What is that greatest adventure?

What is he? I would have be on that mission with him. I 100%. When you find out what the mission is, I don't think you're going to want to be on that mission. What does he do? You know, we don't know. It sounds great right now. It sounds amazing. It sounds like he's very romantic. When you find out what his mission was, it was not a fun mission. No,

but the way he says it, you're like, okay, he's a Cirque de Soleil performer or something. He does something like amazing that does that not say something to the human condition that we listen with our own perspective? Of course. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's why we have you here, by the way.

So we have your perspective. Yes. Mine? Yes. Because we don't. I wasn't listening. Yeah, we want your perspective. What's it listening? O'Brien asked Tosk what he's referring to, but Tosk refuses to discuss it.

He cannot talk about the greatest adventure one could ever desire. Everyone wants to know. Everybody. At the very end of the scene, Cork brings their drinks over. And did you see Toss just like lean over? he just looks into the mug. He's just looking down. Yeah.

His physicality, Scott McDonald's knocking out of the park. Okay, was it not interesting how Scott McDonald was also so complete, the character was so completely literal. Oh, yes. Almost like he was on the spectrum. Yeah, most definitely.

Almost like Forrest Gump. Even though it was like a language thing. Yes. I almost added a run, Forrest Run into my haiku, but run, but run, Tosk, run is only three syllables. so I didn't do it.

Oh, next time. Next time. Next time. Yeah. We got to Ops next. Oh, would you think of that last alien that he talked to? That was a weird looking alien.

It looked like his skin was a brain. His brain, his skin. Was there like a weird thing going on here? Well, he was lying his face down, so he wasn't really showing his face. It looked like a squished, yeah, but his face was very squished and weird looking. I'll let you take that over. Yeah. Okay.

We'll take it over. Robbie, Ops, maybe? Yeah, we go to Ops. Miles is telling Cisco that he started, he's starting to like this guy. It's Kira Bashir, Cisco, and O'Brien continuing to discuss Tosk. O'Brien believes that Tosk is on the run, but that he doesn't have criminal intentions, that he's a stand-up alien. I want to say stand-up guy, but that's not right. Stand-up alien.

He's a stand-up alien, but he was like, he's quirky and it's weird, but he trusts him. He trusts that he's not a bad guy. He's trusting him, but it's interesting because Cisco and dad. Dax are getting more suspicious. Like they're worrying more at this point. Yeah. And I don't think Dax is in this scene, though. Is Dax in this scene?

I wrote Kira Bershear, Sisco, and O'Brien. Are you in there? Yes. She says, but he didn't exactly tell the truth either. Oh, right. And there was that shift focus moment where she was, where Dax was in the background. Well, they rack focus.

It's okay. They rack focus. I know you still love me. It was a little, yeah, Garrett. How can you not notice Terry Carroll in this scene? It's okay. He's very. I have loved Terry Farrow from the moment I met her, okay?

But the very first second that I met her, and she drove in my car around Paramount Lott. I was trying to impress her, okay. I sat in the passenger seat. I don't think I drove, okay, I think you sat in the seat and we spoke. We talked is what happened. I don't think I drove around the lot. Yes, you did. Yes.

You're so excited. So here I am in Paramount City. It was night time. Room, like driving around the Paramount lot. Yes, it was a very rare moment that you were very happy. You got to have your car there. You were. I was excited.

I was very excited. And I was thinking, where were you when I was looking for a car? Okay. This is how it started, Robbie. Okay? It started because... It was a BMW. Terry, what kind of car did you get?

I went from my... The coolest Dotson Z. Yes. 350th anniversary turbo. Wow. I bought it when I was 19. for my paper dolls pilot money. Yes.

Okay, it got totaled on my way to my first day of work. This is the car, the rental car that then Sid thought that's the cool car? No, this is 350. They're only made like, I don't know, like 5,000 of them. The dots and 300 ZX. So, Turbo. And it had 50th anniversary in the whole, like, I wrote a check for it for my paper dolls um and at that time it was nissan they switched to from dots into nisson nisson 300 zx yes

yes yes and you crashed it and then no i didn't crush it some asshole drove into me as i was turning left yes and right when you were starting work dela santina had to come get me in the paramount van and then the guy sued me because he knew i was working for paramount yes oh my gosh and then he didn't show up so it was okay, but the stress I went under thinking I was like, I'm being sued. Robbie, we're both Midwesterners. That is like the kiss of death. Oh, I'm being sued. I have to go to court.

I'm in trouble. Somebody's mad at me? Okay. Okay. You know what you should when, when Delafita, what's his name? Delafina? What's his name? They got to come pick you up.

Can I just tell you right now how much I love you right now? He said if I wasn't, anyway, there's, in the future, I have more stuff to say about him. Robbie, Delacantina. Delacantina. Well, when he came up in the Paramount van, when that guy saw that, and then he knew that you worked for Paramount, you should have said, oh, that's my dad. He came to pick me up from work and he's his work. So then you could have played off like you didn't work at Paramount.

We didn't. But I, we didn't. He's on the Paramount van. And that was my very first day of actually being. filmed i got picked up from an accident oh wow then you had a rental car correct after that yes no then i borrowed marina's car oh that's it you borrowed marina's car and then sid saw and then sid saw that that was the cool car okay you're like no my dot my nisson 300 cx is the oh he was so disappointed in his the one i was driving was blue and navy and the one he was driving was

like emerald green anyway back back to our story sure back to our story i would just a quick so charlie rousseau walked up to me and said you and robert beltrane have the two shittiest cars in the cast right now i had a nissan no it was a nissan centra i had a nintendo's are cool cars it's a base level Nissan it's the economy cars it's not it's not what was the oh the cell it no no no it's not cool the center is like he was hanging on by his fingernails yes and i know it's not cool because I remember after we shot the pilot, you just like going to the M3 is like huge. Well, because Rousseau said we had the two crappiest cars.

And it's true. Robert Beltran had a celica, but it had the gray on there, like the back quarter panel hadn't been painted because it was in an accident. So it looked like a mess. And so he was making fun of us. Yeah, but we're poor actors.

The best, well, the best thing was after the pilot was airing the whole first season, I was driving that Centra. I was parked on Ventura Boulevard at stoplight. two Navy guys in uniform look over and see my face. They recognize me. I know they did. And they were like, it's Harry Kim.

And then they looked at the car, like, oh, that's not him like that. And they drove on because the minute they saw the car, they're like, that's not him. They were no longer excited. They were like, there's no way that he would be driving in Nissan Center. They were disappointed. They were disappointed. So that sort of urged me to say, I'm going to buy the coolest EMW I can find. And so I did.

And that's why I had the M3. And eventually Beltran upgraded as well. So, but thank you to Charlie, so. It was freaking cool as shit. It was a nice. It was a nice car. It was. No, it was cool. Right. Thank you. You don't want to ride? I'm like, yeah, I love cars. It was nice. It had the throatiest engine. It was amazing. It was so nice. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back.

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Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra see mint mobile for details okay we're in the corridor toss is working on a junction box and this is awesome uh because as he's kind of doing his thing a framed painting on the wall a painting in the hallway i'm like when have we ever seen a painting in the hallway of any story it's going to say we're just in a hallway in a corridor i don't remember a painting either why do why would you It was Odo. He was pretending to be.

Yeah, was Odo playing he would pretend. But still, it's so funny that there's a framed painting. But I do remember him melting down. Yes. Yeah. From a painting.

It was very. Like, I would have been a bulkhead. I would have been part of the bulkhead. I mean, a light fixture or something. Exactly. Part of the carpet, right?

Light fixture. Good idea. A light fixture. Tosk disappears, though, when Odo appears. And then Tosk. goes invisible so this the move to be invisible because he always does that to go invisible yes he does a move he's like yes maybe scott McDonald was like a modern dancer I think he was in cats he could have been he could have been in cats and this is what Aaron guys this is what Aaron Eisenberg would

do when he did the uh the dance you know what that was this was that you that's funny no that was my contribution oh you started it being a Shirley cat oh and then we made up that dance together. And Aaron came. Oh, that's right. So Aaron and you made it. No, we've both had to do it together. David Livingston was directing another episode, wedding. Okay. So we'll talk about that. Don't spoil it for me. Don't spoil it for me. The picture disappears. There's Odo. Then Tosk goes invisible with the cats move. Yeah. And then force fields. Force fields. Odo says, you know, erect force fields at either. in. He sort of traps him there. Odo says he's going to have O'Brien look and see exactly what's

going on with the ship if Tosk isn't going to talk. And they escort him out. So he's surrendered. Yes. Goes to a holding cell, right? Well, they call it, we call it the brig. They call it the holding area on D-Face 9. They don't even say cells. They go the holding area. It's a much nicer way of referring. It's very sweet. I like it. Yeah, very friendly. As dark as we are, you have a You have a nice jail. Yeah. And you don't have a sick bay. You have an infirmary.

It sounds so much nicer than a sick bay, you know, like what we had. So, all right. Go ahead. Well, Tosk is in the holding area. He refuses to talk. Miles shows up. He reveals that he was trying to break into the weapons lockup. But Tosk won't answer any of this.

No, none of that's explained, which is really irritating, actually. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And all he'll say is, I am Tosk. Yeah. Yes. What? I am Tos should have been the title of this episode.

That's all I'm going to say it again. Yeah, I do like Cisco's line is good, though, when he's like, I am, when he says I am Toss, he goes, and does that, does that explain, is that explain everything? Does that mean something? So he's on the right path. He is on the right path. Okay. Yeah. And they do leave. And, you know, Captive Pursuit does explain the episode, but I am Tosk, I think would be a much more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Miles, O'Brien in the scene does start to reveal that he. He's like begging him to tell him what's going on. That's after Sisko and O'Brien's still there. He begs him to tell him what's going on. And Tosso says, let me die with honor. And O'Brien really likes him and doesn't,

he can't imagine who would want to kill him. And he keeps saying that. He has said that a lot throughout the episode, I want to die with honor or let me die with honor, which is a little disconcerning because what the hell does that mean? Right. We don't know what he's saying at all. And it's shocking, actually, because this is the first time we hear him say, I want to die with honor. And then it's repeated over and over again. Yeah. It feels like a suicide mission. It's starting to feel like he was on some kind of suicide mission. Like, okay, this is dangerous. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why O'Brien is maybe a little naive. I think. Yeah. I think that's why he's picking up on this was he was sent on some dangerous mission and he cares about this guy. He's a nice guy. Yeah. Yeah. O'Brien tells Oda that he feels responsible now. It's like he's adopted. Tosk. Right. And which I think is very sweet. It is. But he does reiterate to Odo. He feels that Tosk has zero bad intentions, that he trusts him, that he feels that there's something, you know,

he's innocent in a way. But he says, we've got to find out, you know, what the secret is. He's not talking. So we've got to figure it out. That's right. And then we go, like, are we like about 30 minutes in now? Possibly. Is this one that O'Brien is pretty emphatic about it? Because there's a certain point where he's kind of emphatic about, like, I don't know what's going on, but he's not a bad guy, but something's going on. He was starting to get that way in this.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. He's getting more emphatic. That we go to ops next. Well, actually, we go to space first, and this other ship comes through the wormhole looks just like Tosks, but bigger. Another ship, but bigger, exactly.

Comes through, we go to, go to Ops. They let us know that this, they match these new ships with Tosks, signatures, same signatures there. They try hailing this new ship. There's no answer. Suddenly a white light appears and sort of out in space sort of, and scans them on the bridge. Kira raises all the shield. But Cisco says, yeah, Cisco says, hold on.

He said, let them get a look at us and then raise them. So not off the bat, right? Yeah. Yeah, this light passes through, which I couldn't tell if that was a real, like a practical light that Marvin Rush did or if it was all visual effects. Do you remember, Terry, any of that scene or maybe not? Was I in it? No. You're not in it.

Not in it. No, she is in it. She is in it. Is she in it? What are you talking about? Okay, fine. Am I in? I don't know what you're in the scene.

I can't believe he doesn't know. Yes, she says it's a modulated particle beam. She knows what the beam is. So you know what the beam is. But I don't think Terry. Garrett, you got to be telling you something right now is very hard. Let me just say right now to everyone.

Yes. Everyone. I am watching this with new eyes. I'm enjoying the show. I'm making notes. I am making. In your homework book. Breaking.

notes in my like normal needs regular everyday joke kind of place there right and there are things that I don't pick up on and I wonder if it's not just that it's there are things that were so normal that I don't think of them as being special to make a note of well it's an interesting thing idea you bring up because like Garrett and I were both actors on our show but I I went more on the production side. Well, I shifted my career. I was making a joke. No, I'm sorry.

I was always watching, even when we were acting, I was watching the crew. Like, how are they setting up that shot? How are they doing that effect? Oh, there's a guy up there with a pole and then, you know, I, since I've been directing, I work with a lot of actors. They don't want to know that.

They're like, I don't, you do your job. I'm going to focus on my scene and my acting. And it's interesting to me because I was so obsessed. with all that stuff. Oh, if I had extra energy, I would have loved to know everything. There are countless times between modeling and acting that I think, I wish I was paying more attention to the camera. But the truth is, my job took so much of my energy. I couldn't do everything else that was going on. That was just my reality. So there are things that you're saying that I'm like, I can't keep up with because I go, wow.

I wasn't I wasn't even looking at that and you guys are looking at different things that I am. I also want to say to you that if you watch it more than once, those things will pop up. So in my preparation for every single- I don't want to watch it more than once. I used to be honest, Tara, I watch each of these episodes about three to four times before I even come into this thing. Yeah, because like different things pop up. I keep watching it. Oh, he gets the prize. All right.

Trophy to Garrett. I'm just saying. It's like, no, you're right, though, because like the next episode we're together on is Dax. Well, yeah, yes, it is. And that's really difficult for me. And that's very difficult for me. I bet it is. I had our hard time writing notes on that.

Yeah. Hit pause when you write the notes so that you don't miss anything. Because while you're writing notes as it's going on, you're missing stuff immediately. You see what I'm saying? No, no. I do pause. You do pause. That's for sure.

Okay. But what I'm trying to explain, which I think the fans would, maybe find interesting is there there's things like we do in every day that don't seem notable to me because it was so every day to me on the set and yes yes okay and um i i'm finding that interesting listening to you guys because i i'm thinking wow that was every day to me or I was so focused on probably just my lines than to worry about everything else. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's true.

Yeah, and it is weird to watch yourself. This will be an interesting thing to watch the evolution of all of this. I'll watch Dax tomorrow morning again before we do our thing. Exactly. Because I didn't even know how to write notes because I was, I'm like, how do I, I'm going to give it away. I'm going to give it away. It's going to be really hard for me because it's such an interesting episode where we can't talk about end result. Yeah.

I did not see that coming, by the way. I did not. I haven't even watched the up yet. So I'm going to have to watch it after this. So don't spoil it for me. No. No, we'll talk to you tomorrow about it. We'll talk about that tomorrow.

All right. Don't mean back to this. Kira puts the shields up. The shields are up. And now the alien vessel starts to use tech that, no, Nobody in Starfleet knows because it disrupts, it disrupts the shields entirely. Just short circus them. O'Brien doesn't recognize this.

It's got radiation. He's never even seen or heard of before. They reverse their shields. Yes. And they beam aboard our ship. They beam on the promenade. They beam onto the promenade. Yes.

What did you? They locate them in the ops. They're on the promenade. Did you guys like the Berman? They were super scary. What did you think of the beam in? I don't know if I like the. beam in. You know what the beam in look like? Let me just tell you what the beaming.

It looked like a tube. Well, do you remember in the original karate kid where Daniel Laruso's character goes to the Halloween party and he has the little single shower curtain around him. Yeah. That's what it looked like. It's like a little single shower curtain that beams them in and then beams them out. It was a weird, kind of weird look, but different from Starfleet, sort of giving us that that notion of this is an advanced race that is completely different from Starfleet and any other race that we've seen in the Alpha Quadrant. Yeah, they And this is their tech. Yeah.

Yeah. So, but I think they could have come up. But then again, this is 1992, right? 93. So the visual effects is not as good. Yeah. It's not as good as it was later. 1999.

So when we filmed it, 93 was when it aired. Yeah. I would say it felt a little lacking in the technology that I would have thought was happening. The first thing I thought of when I saw these, these. The beam in? Yeah. the B-Men, the new aliens, was, um, it felt vintage.

It felt like retro sci-fi to me. It felt like Devo. Oh, Devo the band. Yes, that was the first thing I thought of, I was like, wow. Yes, that was the first thing I thought of when I saw it. And I was like, but they're kind of scary, but old-fashioned scary. Okay. Was it not old-fashioned scary?

It felt vintage. It felt old-fashioned to me. Vintage. Okay. Yes. It was disappointing. well okay so the gang shows up to confront them right so now you shows up but odo even runs around he's there he's there yeah but then guess what odo i mean it goes a commercial break when when uh cisco says

ready phasers okay and then we come back and odo makes the move towards them now here's the inconsistency here the first alien knocks odo in the face but in the pilot episode when that alien has that little that spiky weapon and throws it at Odo, it goes through his face. So when does he decide that an object will go through his face or not? Maybe he didn't catch it. I forgot about that. Maybe he doesn't catch it fast enough. Am I making sense here?

No, you're totally making sense. That fish should go right through Odo's face. He shouldn't have been knocked back like that. It should have been Cisco walking up and Cisco getting knocked back, not Odo. I feel. So much love that you're pointing that out. Thank you. Yeah.

Just a small thing. Good call. Yeah, it's a big action sequence, though. Yes, huge, basically. The writers aren't watching this to get upset. Yeah. They're over it. They had their own issues.

So they're firing their phasers at them, right? So their regular uniform has some type of armor because the stun, the stun doesn't stun them. They seem to be almost impervious to them. Then they have these almost like Wonder Woman with her little magic bracelet. Yeah. They're able to absorb all and kind of deflect all the other things. with their forearms. So they have all this crazy.

It's kind of cute. This crazy thing like that. So it just, it's, you know, different stuff. We've never seen. It was a vintage action sequence too. It was old school action sequence. It filmed. Yeah.

That no one needed to film again. No. I think this was the last one ever filmed. I think they ever did one. They never did another one after that. Just wait. Okay. Yes.

I think we did some on Voyager too. But wait, there's more. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But they realize Odo, you know, says he thinks it's Tosk that they're after. Yeah. And Kira even thinks maybe they've got a right to him. The aliens eventually in this big action sequence, they blow out the security office door.

Yeah. And enter this holding area. Yeah. The aliens come in, but we don't see Tosk in there. And then they've got a special light on their helmet that sort of lights up and scans the through the... It's a red light, red circle light. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes, because red lights mean scary. Scary. Yes. Everything red is scary. It is scary. But it reveals Tosk. And then Cisco and Odo and O'Brien enter as well. And the hunter calls to his pals that he's got Tosk. That the hunt is over. The hunt is over. Yes. But it's bad because he caught him alive.

And that is the greatest dishonor for Tosk to be caught alive. and being brought. And he talks about all the things that are going to happen to him. We're going to put you on public display so the kids will make fun of you. So everyone will know that you were a failure, basically. So it's a really horrible thing that's happening now to Tosk. And he didn't really, you know, want to get, he didn't want to get caught because he has to always run, right? So this is a very sad scene.

Well, he also says in the beginning of the scene, the Hunter accuses Tosk of telling, you know, our character, our actors. Everything. Right. And he says, no, no, no, I didn't say anything. I didn't tell them. And I'm thinking, why? Like, why not tell people? Like, why is that a rule that you can't tell anybody? That you can't have any assistance from anybody. It's a very difficult culture to understand. It is. I guess so. And I think that's what's beautiful about this story is we're learning about a culture, an entity that we don't understand. Yeah. That doesn't value life the same way we do the same way yep i agree and this is our first real like bam of that right and this hunt to this society is basically their super ball i mean this is the biggest thing of the in their

society is to do this like it feels almost like a spiritual or religious sort of yeah that could be it feels that that kind of thing like he's going to go to oh golly yeah like a whole like you're going to Vahala. Yes, exactly. If you die this way. With honor. Yeah. Yeah. But Cisco, once he realizes this is a hunt, he tells the, the hunter boss guy to come to his office. Hunter boss guy. Garrett Graham. Graham. But he tells the hunter boss guy, come to my office. And if you don't come to my office, we're prepared to fire on your ship. Yeah. And so Hunter boss guy does reluctantly. He can't believe this is over this task, he says. He's like, over this. You're going to start a war with us over this. Cisco is very emphatic, though, in his office. He says, I have no tolerance for the abuse

of any life form. And the hunter kind of says, like, you know what? What abuse? I mean, the look at his face when he goes, abuse? No. He goes, we honor the task. And he starts to say how courageous they are and how noble they are. And this is, this is their way, you know? And then, and then, and then he he says, okay, fine. Wormhole, out of bounds for the hunt. That'll make you happy. And Cisco just gives him the look at death, basically. He's just like, fine. If that's the best I can get, that's the best I can get. Hunter, Hunter boss asks for the release of Tosk. And that's when Cisco walks out of his office into ops and tells everybody that he's agreed to release Tosk. O'Brien is not happy. He's protesting. O'Brien is really upset. He's pissed. Yeah.

Yeah. That's his buddy. Yeah. Kira suggests asylum, right? That's her suggestion. And I love how O'Brien runs into the holding area. He runs into the holding area. He ran for ops to say like, you can get out of this. You can do it. It was just, it was a cute scene, just how he was out of breath. Yeah. Yeah, he think, and it does feel like a great idea and the right answer.

And then and then Tosk says, no, I can't stay here with your protection, you know. Yeah. That's even more dishonorable. Yeah. Sad. It's really sad. He thinks O'Brien in the scene. But it makes sense.

But it makes sense. Does. does i did like by the way yeah at the end of the scene it's a very with o'brien and toss a very sad like i'm i'm starting to you know like this relationship and this adopted you know buddy that he's got yeah little brother or whatever and and when toss says no i'm not going to ask for asylum and thank you i can't do this and o'brien leaves there's this beautiful sort of wide shot and there's Tosk sitting with his head down on the bench in this holding area. And to me, it looked like a painting.

I just, I don't know if it's, you know, sometimes directors will base shots. They'll have an artist or a painting or an image they want to recreate. This was a beautiful image. I saw that image that you're talking about. It's just him. And it was a, it was from far, pretty far back, right? Where it really showed the extent of it. And it was lit perfectly.

And that Cardassian holding area, it looked amazing. It looked 10 times better than our brig on Voyager. And Tosk was just sitting there with his head, like down to the ground. It was told a story. Nearly despondent. Yeah. Great choice by Corey Allen because clearly Corey wanted that shot. And it looked amazing.

It was so good. Like, hello, thank you for using the medium to tell the story. Yep. Yes, exactly. Not just close-ups everywhere, but it was telling the story with a with a sense. cinematic shot that was beautiful. Yeah. That made us our hearts go out to Tosk.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We go to Quarks. Quark is complaining about all these aliens from the Gamma Quadrant. Not buying drinks. Not buying drinks. When does he not?

Yes. When is he not complaining? O'Brien's very grumpy. And Quark asks, oh, more trouble with a little woman? And O'Brien gets really pissed. He grabs him by the collar here. He says, shut up, Quark, first of all, right? Yeah.

Like, has anyone on Voyager said, shut up to another character? I don't even think that's ever happened in seven years. Like, Janeway's never said, shut up, Tom, like that. No one's ever said that. And so I was like, wow, the realism on DS9. My goodness. Star Trek. The Dark Trek.

Dark Trek. Yeah, Dark Trek. Or I don't even say Dark Trek. I'm going to say Reality Trek. Yeah. Instead of reality check, reality Trek in a way. Yeah. Much more real.

like how you'd respond. Yeah. Yeah, but he tells him to shut up. He grabs him by the collar. He's really angry. And Quark realizes that he's being bothered by something. And O'Brien admits that it was the rules of the hunt, that he's frustrated because of these rules of the hunt.

And then all of a sudden, O'Brien's like, wait a minute, rules. Yeah. He thinks about Ferengi rules of acquisition. And he goes, I can just change the rules of the game. Or maybe Ferengi rules of, of, you know, whatever rules, the Ferengi kind of mindset is the inspiration of let's change the rules. Yeah. Yeah. He has an epiphany. I thought that was great. And I did make a mistake. Earlier

when I talked about Cork talking to that alien that had the brainy head, it's here. Oh, it's here after O'Brien runs out. It wasn't earlier. It was now. Yeah. This is when that alien, he runs out. He runs out. He walks over to that earlier episode. So I think you're totally forgiven. At least in my book. I should know better. I should know better. We go to ops next, Miles O'Brien. He sneaks in. He accesses power at the power of the security checkpoint.

And on the promenade, we go over to the holding area, and the hunter puts a manacle around Tosk's neck, like a leash, basically, a collar and a leash. And Odo argues, you know, that's not necessary, but the hunter says, our rituals require it when a task is captured alive. Yeah. And then suddenly O'Brien comes in and he's armed. And O'Brien says, I'll escort this prisoner to the transporter station.

Odo says, this is a security matter. And O'Brien says, this orders from Cisco, Starfleet matter. I've got to. So O'Brien is lying. Oh, he's lying to save his adopted little brother. But Odo marches off after that, right? Does that really bother you? No, no, no.

He's being heroic. He's doing the right thing. We've learned that Miles O'Brien is a trustworthy character. Yeah, no. Right? So if he's going to go off, off on his own. Break the rules. Yep.

Thank you. We know that this is morally the high ground. Yes. If that's the direction he's going. I mean, it's certainly been written in this formula. We have to trust O'Brien. Yes. Because he's our anchor through this entire episode.

Oh, yeah. His care and affection for this alien is the audience. That's the audience's point of view. Yeah. They're through O'Brien's kind of point of view. Exactly. Yeah. So Odo leaves.

And then the hunter says, our main hunter guy, Hunter boss man. he says don't trouble yourself my ship will transport us and o'brien uses uh the logic that it's the tradition uh it's a tradition of respect in their society to um you know escort them it's goodwill a token of goodwill yeah he's totally making this up yeah but because honor and do you know respect and traditions are all like the logic he turns it on them yeah and uh and as he's leaving, he throws his comm badge on to Odo's desk which is definitely a sign

that, okay, he's going on rogue. Yes. Gone rogue. He's gone rogue. Who doesn't want to go rogue? Who doesn't? Yes.

We have a quick scene in the commander's office where Odo is, you know, pretty pissed. Starfleet has no business taking charge. It's just was like, wait a minute. No, constable. I didn't say anything to O'Brien. And then And that's when Cisco realizes, uh-oh. So he hails.

He tries to hail O'Brien on his combat badge, but no answer. No answer. Yeah, there's a shot of just a of the combat on by itself. Or Cisco. No. That was awesome, actually. We go to the promenade and O'Brien's escorting him to a door. And suddenly a force field knocks the main hunter dude down.

Yeah. And O'Brien punches him really good. like boom while he's down and then he grabs Tosk and they run up a spiral staircase but right as that happens because o'brien says like on the upper level that we we catch up with them on the upper level after they run up the staircase and that's when o'brien says your ship's ready but that's when an alien has materialized because after he's knocked down hunter boss guy still says into his calm he kind of goes like the he calls his buddies yeah is what he says right the hunt is back on yeah now when that alien materializes, Toss does this huge jump where he flies over and then knocks this alien

guy out. That Robbie was Tom Morga. Oh, was it really? Yes. So Tom Morga, who we had as, you know, as on Voyager as well, you can tell because if you look closely, Tom is taller and more slender than Scott McDonnell. Scott McDonnell's shorter stockier. Tom Morga is more stretched out. So if you really look closely, you can see there's different in physicality there. It was a good sequence, the big flying up in the air, the contact, the Starfleet guy going over the rail. It's the first time that you realize, it's the first time that you realize that Toss can handle himself. You know what I'm saying? Like, he can actually do damage to these hunters. It's not like he's, he's running scared all the time. He actually is smart. He has physical combat moves. He can fly through the air like a, like a, like a superhero in a way.

I mean, it was, it's really, it was impressive at this point, I felt. Well, we go to, to ops, the team's located Miles and Tosk. And Odo starts to go to stop them, but Cisco says, hold on, you know, you don't, there's no hurry, no need to hurry. I love that. And that's what suddenly you're like, wait, what is Cisco thinking? So on top of it. But then the, but the way that Renee played that, I mean, just was so great.

Because he first, he goes, he nods and he walks two steps, stops, turns around, looks back at Cisco and then realizes, oh, I know what you're doing. Oh, I know what you're doing. Yeah, I get it now. And he walks really slow. And he sort of put his arms up on the elevator thing. And I got to say, this nonverbal kind of stuff that's going on on DS9 with these characters, I love it. I love it.

It just looks, it's amazing. It's a really good scene there. Really good scene. Thank you. Get used to it. It's our normal. Okay. It's really great.

We go to access to. They're crawling through this tube. O'Brien cuts off the neck manacle, that collar thing. And O'Brien thinks they're safe in these really thick walls that the Cardassians built. These conduits, they can't scan and find them. Did you catch how he said that? He said, he didn't say Cardassian. He called them the Cardys.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we, because on Voyager, we never said the Klingons were the clingies. We didn't say the Kazon were the Kaysies. We had no abbreviation. But you guys have an abbreviation, which is again more realistic. I don't remember hearing that again. Did he do it again?

Did he ever say that again? I don't think so. Oh, this is a one-off. That would have been a good one. But you know what? First season, you can't like hold everything to the Bible of the first season, right? You're trying things. I don't remember hearing Cardi's.

Yeah, this is not a criticism. This is a compliment. No, like you'll see old man doesn't really come back. It's like it didn't really work so it didn't come back. But Cardi's also like, wow, good idea. It's more real life. If you talk about the American military, whenever they fight other countries, they always have nicknames for the enemy.

We do. We do. It's the Germans. Americans do. Yes, Americans. I'm pretty sure the other way, do the other ways as well, I'm sure. I don't think they. Yeah, they have to.

Tell me. Nicknames. Well, the British call us Yanks, right? Do you want to know? Oh, you're right. Not maybe very nice things. So the Germans, when they refer to Italians, they say spaghetti fresher. So spaghetti eaters, okay.

And the Germans, when they refer to the British, the British, they call them Inso-Offen, which means island monkeys. So this is the way it goes. I thought they'd be like scone eaters. What? I think, I think O'Brien has evolved past. name calling he's irish which is a whole other thing i'm half irish so let me just say i'm going to stick up for o'brien okay yeah no i just like the nicknames i think it's it's more realistic the cardies the kis the kisies the clingies

okay so they're in the tube bryan calls them the cardies and then they they uh they um basically lift up like a like a it's a what do you call it that suspended ceiling almost so excited to hear you're about to say. You know the suspended ceilings when somebody's up in it? Robbie, he's like, and they pull off the tile. Robbie's doing it. I'm acting it out like a mime.

I know. He's a mind. He's not to be really bad. Oh, no. For those that are just listening to the audio, I actually just did mine moves now. And he did, okay, go ahead.

All right, but they pulled this hatch. Yes, they pulled the hatch. And then he drops down from the ceiling. And he jumps that other other alien there. Yeah, he jumps onto the hunter boss. And again, that's Tom Morga.

If you look closely, it's Tom Morgan. Okay. This is very exciting. I will not watch that again, but okay. I probably will. Okay, go. Toss drops down.

It takes the weapon from the Hunter boss guy. Hunter boss guy. Did you like their weapons? It looked like a crossbow, a vert. Like, they kind of had a crossbow look to it. Yeah, crossbow. So after they drop down, they take the crossbow thing, the hunter tries to fire.

at Tosk, but he's very heroic. He saves O'Brien, pushes O'Brien, and dodges the shot. And then Tosk shoots the hunter and his companion, all three in like one shot. In one shot. So what setting was that on that weapon? I don't know. Starfleet needs that setting. That's an amazing weapon.

And here's my other question to both of you that I don't know. Are all the hunters incapacitated or are they dead? I think they've got to be stunned. They can't be dead. Well, when they, do you notice when they walk over them and you see the shot is from down low, Corey's, Corey has got the reaction of O'Brien walking over their bodies. And O'Brien looks at them like they're down at them. Yes. And the camera comes down and you see smoke coming out of, of alien boss guy.

It's smoke is coming out of them. So I'm thinking, I don't know. Maybe they're done. How do you, how do you wake up after smoke? Yeah. Just saying. Yeah. There's a lot.

I should watch it again. There is a time out. I'll see you in a minute. I'm going to go watch the show again. And I'll be right there. Well, we'll be done a minute at that point. Okay. We get to Tosk's ship.

They come in. Tosk starts his ship up. He says the hunt goes, is going on. And he invites O'Brien to join him to join him. Do you remember that one line when he takes the thing off of him? He turns to him. He goes, now you are. Tosk and then O'Brien laughs at this

when they're going to the corridor. So basically now they're, you know, they're partners in the run, in the huntiness. That would be like telling an Irishman he's English. Yeah, don't, you won't do that. Not going to happen. No. Yeah, but O'Brien's like, no thank you, but you better get out of here while

you can. Yeah. And there's this very touching moment where Tosk like holds him and looks at him in the eye and says, O'Brien, die with honor, O'Brien. Oh, yeah.

Before that, he was, there's concern about, from Tosk about, will your federation punish you for helping me. So he's got all the, I mean, there's this, there's a bond here. There's a real bond there. Yeah, there's, they both care about each other. And then that final line, O'Brien, you know, die with honor, O'Brien. And then O'Brien gets it and he looks at him and says, die with honor, toss, which almost became my last line of my hycunuch.

Of your hycunuch. Die with honor, toss. Yeah, because it's five. What? I almost ended it. Why not? They're speaking poetry to each other. You know what?

Exactly. That's alternate ending then. How's that? I'm going to have that as an alternate ending. Love it. Love it. Yeah. Love it Harry Kim.

All right. Thank you. So Tosk. O'Brien leaves. We go out to space. We see Tosk's ship fly away. He escapes. And we go to the commander's office.

Cisco basically wants a report from O'Brien. O'Brien is admitting that he, overloaded the weapon sensors to help toss escape. Cisco is furious at him in this scene. Yeah, but is he? Wait, wait. I think

this is so classic Star Trek. Yeah, it is. It's so classic Star Trek. He's got to feign the anger because he's really proud of him for doing what he'd really want to do, but he couldn't do. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Because O'Brien's leaving at the end after he's getting chewed out,

by the boss and then he walks out and he goes wait a minute i wonder why you didn't just locate us and you know stop us with a simple force field yeah and cisco's like hmm i guess we must have missed that oh well you must be off on your next film yeah exactly as a very sure said have photo into the next film you're working on bye and so then as he leaves cameras on cisco Cisco turns the camera and he says dismissed, he turns the camera and the little smile creeps up in his face, which is like, yes, yes. It was great. Good ending. I totally had a reaction to that. It was just like, oh, my heart felt warm. Like, is that the best? Those are those moments that you wish you could see in your own real life when other people have that about you. Yes, a little bit of a, yeah, a secret. We don't realize how many people are like so happy. for you.

Yeah. They just can't show it. No. I wish that Cisco could have just shown Miles how much, how proud he was of him. That much. I wish Sisko. But Miles must have known. I mean, my God, he was with Picard, right?

Mm-hmm. What are your underlying, what's your underlying lesson here? Your overall lesson, like, that from this episode. My lesson is. My lesson is that we should all try to live a life that we can be proud of. That's my lesson. What about you? I'm going to say live and let live.

Don't try to force your morals, your ethics, your whatever, your belief system on others. Don't judge. You know, you've got to be open-minded. That's the main thing, I think, is the biggest lesson. Be open-minded to other people's cultures. and societies, because oftentimes they can do something which is diametrically opposed to what you think is right or wrong, right? And you have to realize, hey, that's not wrong in their culture or society. And whose business is it of yours to say that they are wrong, right? That's

how they grew up. Their parents taught them that. Their grandparents taught them that. They'll teach their kids the same way. And that's not our business. You're basically saying you're speaking prime directive here, Gary. I'm speaking prime directive. Yes. Live and let live. Stay out of people's business. Pretty much. What do you think, Terry? You got a lesson? Don't judge a book by its cover.

That's another good one. That's a very good one. I actually thought that it was remarkable how trusting O'Brien was in the beginning. Because my spidey senses were like, zing, zing, zing. Yeah. And he was like so calm and cool. And I thought, wow, I wish I could be more like that. I wish I could.

But I want more information. but why not be more gentle and assume innocence assume something gentle instead of danger will Robinson right so i think i mean i'm just being honest but it's just um yeah right my son's more like that i would say well he's 19 and i'm 60 so but i think that's the beauty of like of of youth in a way is that you don't assume the worst that, you know. But then, again, our assumptions are based on our life experience as well. So the lack of experience, but you wouldn't say that about O'Brien. I just really loved how trusting he was.

And I felt like because of all the experience he had. He was looking for the best in the situation. Yes. And with all the experience he'd had by being on next gen and now being on our show, on our show on Deep Space Nine. Yes. You think he's bringing this wealth of knowledge that 99% of the time, it's going to work out. And that scared person is someone we need to support.

Yeah. And that was something that Max is giving me and watching this episode has given me. is take the gentle road when somebody's scared or nervous, step back and allow them some space to give them some support and then see what's what after that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that relationship. I really did.

I love the friendship and the chemistry that those two characters had. I thought it was great. Well, thank you, everybody, for joining us for cats. Active Pursuit. What a fun episode that was. For our Patreon patrons, stick around for all of your amazing bonus material. That's coming up next.

And for everybody else, we'll see you next week when we discuss the episode Q-Less. We'll see you next week. Bye.