The Delta Flyers - Crossfire

Episode Date: August 19, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Crossfire, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Armin Shimerman.Crossfire: Odo’s love for Kira conflicts with his duty to protect First Minister Shakaar, whose negotiation meetings are followed by dates with Kira. We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Nicki T, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Danie Crofoot, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, Tamara Evans, & Deb LahrAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Joshua Shields, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, Brian Heckathorne, Mark Johnson, Nelson Silveira, Ming Xie, Gordon Watson, & Andy BruceThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. For the complete and stupendous and super sexy version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Wow, very sexy. Where do I go to get the less sexy version?

Yes, exactly. You can have Armin's less sexy version or our sexy version. Do we have any birthdays this week? We do, we do. We have Natalie Swain on August 21st. So happy birthday, Natalie. Happy birthday, Natalie. Happy birthday, Natalie, on the 21st.

And we also have Kelly B on August 22nd. Happy birthday, Kelly. Happy birthday, Kelly. I like how Kelly B rhymes. Kelly B, happy birthday, August 22nd. Here we go, my poem for the episode Crossfire. Chachar comes to a conference for political detente. But with Kira, he has some feelings that he flaunts.

There's an assassin to outsmart, Odo's left with a broken heart, and you can't always get what you want. Very good, very good. Thank you. Detaunt and flaunt. Good, good, very good. Yes, thank you. It was not quite detaunt, although detaunt is a political coming.

together to agree on something you don't agree on. It's as close to the word crossfire as you can get. Exactly. But with Kira, he has some feelings he flaunts. Yeah, detente flants. That's perfect. Why not? That works for me. Okay. All right, here's my haiku for Crossfire. All right. Shikar, two station.

Has plans to romance Kira. Odo smashes things. He does. He does. He does. And Quark comes in in pajamas. We've never seen his pajamas before. Is that a first?

And let's hope we never see them. They were shiny. You didn't like them? Oh, my God, they were horrible. Did they have, like, the footies built in? I couldn't tell. No, but they had their own footies, and they were just as horrible. Really, this is a slightly serious scene.

Why dress me like a clown, you know? Armand, did the backside have the flap that you can pull down? Did it have one of the other player? Yeah, we never saw that side of me. We didn't see that side. What about etymology? Etymology. Okay.

So Crossfire is an interesting word. I'm not sure really how it applies. It does apply, but it's not really the best of titles for this episode. The definition of Crossfire is, this is OED. So to use the same word that is the word is always a bad thing to do. But the OED is the official dictionary of the English language. lines of fire from two or more positions crossing each other so crossfire as we have that definition it's also a crossfire of small pleasantries first used in 1860 oh uh with verbs

forming compound verbs it meaning to do something crosswise uh in the direction traversing another the word cross comes from the old irish and scottish and norse languages the word cross is we understand it religiously as has an older analogy but this is the sort of English across like that although I suppose the religious icons also across it's interesting yeah the the sort of military crossfire you know yeah idea is interesting but the you said in the 1860s or something 1860 is the first time the word was used wow and it had to do primarily with military stuff Probably what was the war that was in 1860 in Europe. The right of the horse brigade that that poem was written about.

And the Civil War was in the 1860s? And the 7th War. Although I believe, yes, it could have been from the Civil War, could have been from Europe, I don't know. Is it the charge of the Light Brigade? Thank you, charge of the Light Brigade. The British. And what was the other side?

The British and the French? Was it the French? Wasn't the French? No. And I've forgotten. Prussians? Prussians, it was the Prussians. Okay.

It was the Crimean War. That's the, Crimean War. Yes. Tell me how that word works in this episode. Who came up with that, Iran? Why did you use it? I could imagine that it's Odo's trying to make gestures to Kira and then Chakar is making gestures. So in their kind of wooing, the cross-wooing.

That would have been a better title. That would have been a cross-wooing. But as it is, with that definition, then Kira should have been the main thrust of the episode. Although she's the object of desire, she's relicated really towards the back of the episode. It's really Renee's episode. Oh, it's definitely Renee's point of view, for sure.

All right. Well, this episode was written by Renee Ishavaria, directed by Uncle Les Landau. And we have guest stars, Duncan Reger as Shakar, Eden, and also Bruce Wright as Sarsh Res, his second in command. Now, I just want to read this little quick bit about Duncan. This episode marks Duncan Regare's second of three appearances as Shakar Eden.

He had previously appeared in the third season episode, Shakar. Ira Stephen Bear was not happy with the development of his character in this episode, although he is very careful to accept the blame himself and not accuse Reger of a poor performance. I think we mishandled his character in this episode, and he never recovered after that. the first time we saw him he was clint eastwood the foreigner the man of few words the terrorist he became way too sensitive here it just wasn't the same chakar so irea wasn't happy about this interesting yeah i did remember that previous episode not vividly but i did remember him being a little vague to me as a character yeah and then this seemed very different but i couldn't put my finger on it

but that's well said by Ira, I think. It does feel like almost a different character to me. I just sort of assumed, oh, that's because now he's, you know, a politician and it's changed him. And maybe they should have given him more politician things to do. Maybe he should have been, there should have been scenes, perhaps the missing scenes are the ones where he's actually negotiating with the federation to get into the federation. Yeah, we never see any of that. That would have made his character perhaps a lot more stronger. This past weekend, I was at a convention.

And I was talking with a fan about deep space nine. Voyager and what they said about DS9 was I enjoyed DS9 because to me it's like a soap opera and I was like oh I don't really agree with you until I saw this episode now I feel like this is this episode is very soapy very soapy oh my gosh it's

it's more soapy than sci-fi I felt I was I was a little shocked to be perfectly honest I was like my goodness co-stars Charles Tentindo as Jimenez and also a quick little bit of trivia about this episode the story for this episode originated in Robert Hewitt Wolf's idea to do a bodyguard type story, referencing the

Lawrence Cazden film with Kevin Costner, Whitney Houston. The idea was for Odo to be the bodyguard protecting Kira for something and falling in love with her. The audience found out about Odo's love for Kira in a different way in a prior episode, The Heart of Stone, but nevertheless, the producers still liked Wolf's basic idea, and they kept that story in mind. In René Achevary's original draft for this episode. Towards the end, there is an explosion, and Shakar and Kira are in the path of the fire, and Odo has to decide which one to protect. He loves Kira, but he has been assigned to guard Shakar. He chooses to save Shakar, and Kira is almost killed. Then at the end of the episode, we find out that Odo made his choice out of spite. According to Escheravaria, the

denouement just didn't work, so we massively overhauled the story and made it a much more gentle show it is too gentle sorry okay well there you go um this episode believe it or not robbie is alan craker's all-time favorite ds9 episode really yeah when he was hired to direct the assignment he watched every single episode from the pilot all the way up to the assignment and he picked this one as his favorite so i would say while we're talking about directing this episode reminded me that lest lando is one of my favorite it is probably my favorite Star Trek director. I know David Livingston did a lot.

Yeah, why? Because he, in a very gentle way, always puts the camera and shoots the scene in a way that elevates it without overwhelming it. Some of our Star Trek directors would either, I would say most of the time, kind of sit back and let the actors sort of in a proscenium in a theatrical way, sort of do things. and the camera was not really involved in the storytelling quite as much. Or they would overcompensate and do something so self-conscious that I forgot I was watching these actors play these moments

and less has the perfect balance to me. Okay. Of moving the actors and the camera in a way that it just lifts it up just a foot off the ground a little better than it would be if he wasn't moving the camera where he was. he's he's just really really good it's elegant it's cinematic it's a gentle touch that's always elevating always every moment is and it's and it's even it doesn't it doesn't jump styles in a way that you suddenly are like whoa it's a fish eye lens yeah he doesn't really intrude he's not

heavy-handed in his directing not heavy-handed it's very a light deft touch is what i'm hearing but it's always just nudging it a little better than if if he wasn't involved got it so he juzes the whole storyline in the scene. I think so. Okay. I think so. I like that. And to the juzing, it seemed to me he did a lot of two character scenes where one

person was in focus and the other one was out of focus. And then he would jush it so that the person out of focus came back into focus. Yeah. Yeah. Really elegant staging in a way that would keep the focus on the point of view of the scene. If it was Renee, hearing someone talk about something, but really our story is about what's happening for Renee, not as important as what those people are feeling, but he's, anyway, I just, I found it to be really elegant and really, really awesome. He's smooth, smooth and effortless,

yes. I think so. Mm-hmm. I agree. That's all personal taste, too. And just circling back to the, to their guest stars or to the supporting players. Yeah. I have seen him before, but there is a background person in this episode that is, I wouldn't say featured because background people aren't featured. But he's there quite a bit. His name is Daryl Enriquez. He did a lot of background work for our show and I was always happy to see him. Why was I happy to see him? One, we had done plays together, so that's a good reason. But two, and this is the interesting part for me, in the first Ferengi episode on Next Generation, Daryl Enriquez was the guest star. Wow.

Darryl Enriquez was the guest star. I can't remember if he had the first building or not, but certainly he was the guest star. Besides the Ferengi, the Ferengi and the Federation were dealing with this alien, and Daryl Enriquez was that alien. It is sad, and sad is the wrong word, because there's nothing wrong with doing background work.

I sat on a committee for years that supported the people who do that as their life's work to do background work and they like it and they're happy and they should be um but to go from being the lead the guest star on a next generation episode to a background person in a deep space nine episode knows um the eccentricities of our business yeah for sure acting business anyway and if you were to go back and watch this episode he's strikingly in white he's wearing a white vest and in fact in the last frame

as Renee goes out into the promenade with his hands behind his back the only other person in that frame is Daryl Enriquez Wow, I'll have to go back and look at that thank you for sharing that I'm looking at his credits it looks like

his last credit as an actor was in 2013 but it seems like he had maybe one about one guest star a year pretty consistently almost every year or two he'd get a guest star role and then he maybe go back to background work to supplement income yeah not just income but insurance insurance of course he wants to maintain that insurance he's got it and sag extra work will also fulfill that as well that's right

it's a number of days and he was he was background quite a bit on deep space nine and he during that time he had a daughter so it's very possible in order to get his insurance he did background work in order to supplement his threshold ability to get insurance, SAG insurance. He was in the movie, Jumanji. He had a role, speaking a role. And we did plays together. So I know Daryl very well. And I just wanted to acknowledge his presence in this episode as well.

Good for you. Thank you for sharing that. Let's jump into it. We start in the security office on a tight shot of a mug being set very precisely. Odo's preparing for Kira's arrival. You see he's a bit nervous but excited. She comes in, sits down. They go through some security logs.

Great chemistry. The actors seem to be having a lot of fun in this scene. And then Quark arrives. He's got a noise complaint. Odo's making too much noise practicing his shape-shifting upstairs. So I didn't know your quarters were upstairs downstairs from each other. I'm quite sure that's the first time that that's mentioned. Noise complaint.

I love when you say something about he was a mouse or something. Yeah, he started out bigger, right? And then he's a mouse and realizing he's making noise and so he turned into a mouse in order to reduce the noise. But of course, Quark's hearing is really incredible. They don't say that enough in the show that I love that moment though, because Kerr goes, you can actually hear that and you go, hello. Look at these. It made me laugh out loud. I wish we had played that more.

I always knew it and was aware of it, and ironically, the makeup made us deaf so that we couldn't hear anything. But the character could. I wish we had actually played more of the fact that Quark was really good at hearing across the room. Yeah, you've got like an eavesdropping device built into your head. So they could have used that. Precisely. Yeah. Some private conversation in Quark's bar and then they come over to the bar and there's quirk and he knows exactly what they said.

Oh, it'd be great. It's how he knows about the rumors and everything. everything that's happening on the station. That makes sense. He can hear very well. Makes sense. If Ferengis were real, they would be, every NFL team would employ a Ferengi on the sidelines to listen to the other team's plays.

I love the beginning of this scene because it's just all those close-ups that Uncle Les show us the beginning when Kira walks in, Odo's so happy to see her. You can see he's beaming. And it's almost like this is the eye before the storm, the beginning. The calm before the craziness is about to happen. We see this beautiful setting and just the way Uncle Lesch shot it, it just brings you right into this episode. Yeah, that's great.

I like at the end when Kira says, it's just Quark's luck that you would be assigned to the quarters right above his. And Oda's like, luck had nothing to do with it. Yeah. I love the teasing. These two just are creative in how they get at each other. Yeah. And I thought Kira was a little too joyous.

finding out that he, it's just screwed Quark, but moving there purposely. And I thought, really, no, nah, did you really have to be that joyful about it? Did you have to find that much pleasure? Yeah, because that's not in the script anywhere. That's the actor's choice. We do have an exterior shot of the ministership docking.

This is an exact reuse of a shot from the episode, Move Along Home, one of my favorite Epps that I love, a la Moraine, one, two, three. It was a Wadi ship. That same ship that the minister has was actually the Wadi ship. I do remember when I saw this shot, I'll be honest.

It came in fast to the station. I almost thought, oh my God, it's going to crash. You would think it would get up close and then go start to slow down. But it didn't. It just went, he's in a hurry to see Kira. Yeah, that's what it is. Clearly.

Clearly. Yes. We go out to the airlock. We do see O'Brien, Bashir, Cisco, Dax arrive in their dress uniforms. Looks so nice. Yeah. Dax is a little late, though.

And I thought this moment, the way they played it, was going to pay off somewhere. It does, but they didn't do it right. When? I missed it then, because you're right. So what she says, well, there were a lot of people in the promenade. Right. And what that means is not that that was what kept her late, but it's a piece of information that we should know, the audience should know,

that throngs are down in the promenade, waiting to see Shakar. I see. Went over my head. Yeah, it did mine, too, until I saw it the second time. I went, wow, that should have been focused on a little bit more that there are so many people waiting for Shakar, and not that she's late for the appointment. Yeah, but I did like Kira's dress uniform.

I don't think we've seen that before. No, wow. That was a great look on her. Very sharp. Yeah. Cisco introduces all of his staff very formal, And then Chakar's like, well, here's my staff, this one guy, Sarish. But we do have, before that, we do have the interplay between Miles and Bashir.

And it's interesting to me that one of the leit motifs of this episode is the relationship between our characters, not just Kira and Chakar, but the other characters as well. The relationship between Quark and Odo obviously is obviously there. Yeah. But even this little moment. this little back and forth between Miles and Bashir is indicative of their relationship as well, which I, on the second watching, went, oh, that's them being very clever about showing relationships, but not necessarily focusing on them.

Yeah, it's a bromance. I mean, he literally says it shows off your figure, which is a very flirty line in a way, but between those two is the bromance version of that. Very cuply comment. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good point. I did notice that. Anyway, they all head off.

Dax is amazed at how good looking it is. I'm sorry. This is the point where I said, this is turning into a soap opera. You have Dax and Kira, and when Dax says, he's so good looking, it just seemed like two young middle school girls, you know, that. Yeah, seemed a bit out of character. It did. I was like, why are you saying that? Why? It just pulled me out for a second. And then this is the beginning of the soap opera and this of this episode for me. Okay. All right.

Sounds like you've deducted some points for the soap opera. I did. Sorry. Okay. Keep going. Okay. Well, we're on the promenade. There is a giant crowd there.

It does feel like a big crowd. Shikar's preparing to speak to the Bajorans on the station. Lots of people there. Serish says, remember the transit subsidies and enunciate? So you see that Serish is sort of his political coach. He's more politically minded, and Shakar is just a man of the people kind of guy. It's the vibe I get there. Well, ex-soldier as well.

Ex-soldier. Yeah, he doesn't seem to like politics very much. And then Odo calls, and Odo's panicked. He tells Cisco that someone may be planning an assassination. They've gotten some information here suddenly after he's arrived. Seems like they would have gotten that earlier. And does nothing. just stands there in the crowd just does nothing i like les's direction as well but i thought

really shouldn't he have moved shouldn't shouldn't he have tried to do something if he knew that he just he just suddenly got i've gotten the information that there might be an attack and he just stands there as though okay that's the end of my line and now what comes next i okay are you talking about odo's standing there ohdo i i clocked it as he was standing there and observing everyone around him. I didn't catch that he didn't do anything. But he was just looking. If that was true, Gary, that would have been better than it would have been this. I've just gotten information that. Right. I thought he was doing that. He wasn't doing that. I thought he was just staring off in the space.

Interesting. I don't recall that moment. I do remember him calling. And my sense, my memory is that he was panicked and giving Cisco this important news. And then it pushed into a two shot on Cisco and Kira at the end of the scene. Right. I didn't think he was panicked at all. It was just, panicked is too hard a word. I think he was concerned, but I don't think he was panicked. Interesting. Interesting.

Different strokes, I guess. Yeah. Well, we go to the captain's office next. Odo thinks that Shakar should cancel this whole conference appearance. And Sarah says absolutely not, that Bejor needs this conference to succeed if they want to join the Federation, which they do. They want to speed up. the timeline of Bayjord joining the federation so this has to happen why are they trying to speed it up they even talk about that later they said oh the starfleet always has to go through this protocol

it takes this long to get in and no one can change that so why i don't know i just that's just my question it's an excellent question why should they speed it up bureaucracy we could have used that the whole story of this need to get into the federation is like tertiary whatever's beyond tertiary it's like not important to the soap opera that is Odo and Kira. Yes, it is. It's deep, deep background. And we don't learn a lot about why it's important or any of the details.

We never see a meeting of it. All we see is a cocktail party. That's all we see. Well, you guys have brought up this soap opera thing, which I didn't feel that as much. I thought it was more drama or it didn't feel like a super sci-fi concept. But I remember in one of the books, on writing that I've read way too many and written far too little, but I've read a lot of books on writing. And one of these books talks about science fiction as a genre. And it sort of defined it

very simply. It said a story where science, real technology or imaginary technology is the key to solving the hero's crisis. And you're right. There's nothing in this where technology, science, or imaginary science comes in at all. I mean, I guess Odo being able to changeling in the in the turbo lift later, he does, it does affect a sci-fi skill of his or whatever affects the story, but it's not really fundamental. There's no technology, science, or imaginary science that affects this story at all. This could have been set right now, present day on Earth and basically been the same.

story. Usually that's a big flaw in a science fiction story. So I will admit that it doesn't fit the definition that I'm familiar with of a science fiction story. Robbie, this to me could be a this episode could be a CW teen angst show episode. It's the same thing. I think Renee elevates it above a CW. He does. But that's thanks to Renee. That's just, that's Renee only. Renée's the only one that brings this a little bit higher so it's it's a piece of art especially to that scene where he's sitting alone after the the ruckus has happened inside his quarters my goodness but i can sense the deductions from both of you i'm not ready i'm just imagining the the points deduction so i'm going to say yes that if they had leaned into a changeling questioning his value in a human relationship

that would have been the key. If they had brought in Odo's self-worth and questioning and talking to people, I'm a changeling and I've got feelings. You know, if you had talked to Quark about that. Yeah. And they had used the fact that this is an alien in love with a humanoid or, you know, a changeling in love with a humanoid and how that alien qualities of those characters affected this romance.

It would have made it different than a CW show. And you just suggested something that brought something to my mind, which perhaps they should have. Of course, hindsight is 2020, but as a changeling, he can link with every other person in his society with other changelings. Consider the frustration as a changeling, of course he's never really dealt with other changelings,

but this frustration of not being able to find out what the other person is thinking for sure. And that would have been an interesting dialogue for him to share with somebody, Quark or somebody. Mm-hmm. Yeah, if you had started this episode with Odo having some connection, you know, some version of a changeling experience, and then start to unpack, I'm realizing I've got feelings for Kira, but I don't have that same feeling I have as a change. You know, that would have been a sci-fi version of this story.

Or even more, what if changelings don't fall in love and he's falling in love and he knows he's falling in love? And what is this? This is not what my people do. is not what I've never felt these feelings before. What is this all about? Yeah. That would have been interesting for the character. Well, to your point, Robbie, about making this episode, what would have made this episode better, they kind of touch on it just very lightly when Odo says something to the

effect of, I knew she wouldn't fall for someone like me. But then he doesn't go into questioning his change. Can I have a relationship with? a Bajoran, you know, or questioning his values or who he is as a changeling. They didn't go that far. It glossed over very quickly when it could have been the fundamental

story and then it would have been a sci-fi story. And like those books, I talk about the writing books. Often I read the writing books, not because I want to write, but I use the wisdom of writing books to help me as a director and a producer. Because then

if I'm producing an episode of resident alien and I can say this is an alien show but there's no alien story in this I can give those notes and thoughts to the writers to say we got to make sure we you know punch up this the alien side of this because our show's resident alien there's got to be an alien that's why people watch yeah I use that more as a producer

and a director to those the wisdom of those writing books less about me sitting around and typing out scripts all the time but there's a lot of wisdom in that I hear both of you kind of saying oh it's a soap it's a soap it's a soap i didn't feel that as much but i think you're right it could have been a better sci-fi story if they had found some part of the story engine that was sci-fi-based and it feels like they didn't really no no uh well anyway still in the captain's office uh oda thinks that shakar should cancel the conference sarah says no we got to we got to join the federation kira says she knows shakar and he

won't negotiate with terrorists. He's not going to back down from a terrorist threat because the minute you do that, you've lost. So Odo decides he wants around the clock security and we learn that Wharf is going to head this up because Eddington's on leave. So Mr. Warf's going to step over to run the Starfleet side of security. Back in the security office, Odo is meticulous about everything. Worf agrees with him. He's talking with Worf. And they're both sort of connecting on this meticulous kind of point of view of the world. That they're both anal retentive. Yes.

I enjoyed this scene, actually. I thought that them bonding over this. I hadn't seen that on the show before, and it was fun. It's a good scene. Yeah. Yeah. Odo even tells Wharf, you know, let everyone know that they are not welcome to drop by. No guests.

Worf is all into that. Worf says, yes, I, perhaps if, I am more inhospitable, Chief O'Brien will stop coming by. So I thought it was a phone. Oh, you're getting really close to Worf's voice there, Robbie. Was I? Yeah. Inevertently, you were hitting the right tones and the right...

Michael Dorn is the only one they can do that voice. Oh, no, you're getting close. He's got a magic voice. He does indeed. And a very good heart. Yes. Out in a corridor, Odo has the security set just right. He's talking to Wharf.

and the first minister is scheduled to leave for the reception in about a half hour. They've still got to scan the ward room and it'll be secure by the time he's scheduled to come out when suddenly Shakar comes out early, comes out of his room. He wants to go to the temple. Improvising. That's not on the plan. It's not on the list of approved places to go. And Odo, as we just established, is very meticulous.

This is not comfortable. for him he wasn't expecting it yeah that's a monkey wrench yes the adjutant should have said no you can't do that hello again if we the political side of the story uh has been forgotten it completely forgotten and would have helped make um chakar more of a a loose cannon as far as not being a politician yeah yeah because all sarah says here was well i didn't know myself until a moment ago yeah i can't do anything about it earlier he was bossing him around you know enunciated and do this and do that and now he's like yeah can't do anything yeah all right well change of plans we go up to the promenade chakarnota or walking and talking i have to say again this is an example of less landau's

elegant subtle shot making because this is a very hard shot it's a walk-and-talk-woner of them walking all the way across the upper deck of the promenade and the way that looks at the less shot it was on a tracking shot with a long zoom lens and as the actors got closer towards that bridge the camera was crossing over the bridge and ended up in a tight two shot and then they stepped out but it managed to start in a longer zoom and track and they buried that what we call like burying the zoom in the camera move so as the camera's dolling over it's slowly widening out to hold that two-shot size. It's a very hard shot to do. I would credit less for coming up with it and demanding a well-executed version and then the camera crew because that's a hard

for an assist camera assistant to pull the zoom in such a way that it's buried in this move. You can't see it. It was just really well done. I thought it was great. Well, they walk across Shakar says that Kira speaks very highly of Odo. Basically, if she trusts him, that Shikar's going to trust him too. Odo's very happy to hear that Kira is saying nice things about him. You can see that land. We go down to the promenade and there's a big group coming out of the replemate to meet Shakar. He's making his way to the temple. Crowds are gathering everywhere. He can hardly get through. This is where Odo is clocking everybody. That's right. That's where he's clocking everybody. So I got that wrong earlier. You're right. This is like handshakes. It's a little bit of a montage

of Shakar. Oh, nice to meet you. And then a cuts over to Odo and another shout out to Les again he went to a handheld style of shooting this yeah and my interpretation of that is when I was watching the scene I thought uh-oh here comes the first assassination attempt because you feel that handheld paranoia and the way that he montaged all of this one shot to the next back and forth you feel like you're building towards somebody's going to take a shot but he doesn't but the use of handheld adds to the attention is what you're saying it yeah unconsciously you kind of go uh-oh there's going to be an action scene and the way this at the scene why does your brain go there though but what because

i think we've been trained to you know to know that oh things are unstable things are edgy okay um yeah you know we sort of unconsciously go there right and it's all a build-up to this woman that the hodo sees who's kind of looking suspicious and then she ducks down and comes up with a kid. And then we're back to the dolly shots and not handheld. And you kind of go, you breathe. Yes, you do. S subtle but really smart. That's like a list directing there. Very well done. Thank you for that. I learned things on the show. Thank you. It's the little stuff and, you know, the big stuff. And I'm not talking about any other particular director. I'm literally saying sometimes directors can, they get an idea. And they're like, oh, this will really make this scene.

It'll land the idea. And then they get in the way of the story and the actors delivering the story, whereas Les just does just a little bit. And it actually makes everything so much better, in my opinion. Okay, so now we've left the promenade. We're up in the wardroom. It's a reception. There's a buffet table. Quarka serving drinks.

Chikar is very popular here. Sarah sees Vedic Tonsa, who he's heard a lot about. He's talking with Kira, Sarah, she's talking with Kier. He's like, is that Vedantanza? And he's heard that he's a really good springball player, wants to play springball with him. And Kier's like, oh, you must be good. And he goes, no, no, I'm average, or what does he say? I don't know.

He says, nah, I'm terrible. He actually says, I'm terrible, but I want to talk to this guy. So you see, again, Sarish is like, he's networking, he's always thinking politically, whereas Shakar never does that, which I like. It makes Shakar seem like a more sincere person as a character, you know. I'm on Team Shakar here. But isn't he too welcoming? I mean, going back to the criticism, I just heard about what the writers thought that I got from Garrett.

Yeah. Shouldn't he been less gregarious, Shakur, shouldn't he have been less gregarious? Should it have been hard for him to talk to these people? yeah if that's what the writers wanted and wouldn't they have said this in the tone meaning to yes they would have to less yeah i think i think they missed that because the whole fact that he has this assistant there that political guy is he's the guy that's help is to help groom him to be able to speak to everyone he should have issues with talking right definitely yeah and the election a vatic council like a sponsoring chakar is tangential to the to the political fact which

which is that we're trying to get Bejure into the Federation. That's a different political arena altogether, this Vedic election. Why insert that here? It goes nowhere. No, it goes nowhere. There's a lot of that in this episode. A lot of kind of broad strokes that don't really focus in on what's happening in this episode. We're still in the wardroom, still at this reception.

Kira sees Odo here. And this is the scene where she mentions that his belt looked good. She liked his belt. So he morphs a belt. He feels good. He's very proud that she's noticing how he looks. And it was a strange morph. Was it?

Usually we get a liquid thing before it becomes solid. This just went, he went with his hands, he just went, boom, and the belt was there. This was very abracadabra, very David Copperfield-esque, you know, like, blam! Then the belt came out, you're right. I thought they were saving on money there, I thought. Yeah, they may have been. He does look practically giddy to me, though. scene with kira he's just love loves getting her attention especially if it's about him looking good

yeah and then kira's tired she says you know i'm i'm out of here i'm gonna head off to bed but chakar stops her otto sees all this chakar stops her and says he wants to take a stroll with her so she agrees and then odo approaches and he says you know i'm gonna i'm gonna have to come too i'm have to protect you. And Shakar says, well, fine, but don't stay too close. Oh, that's the first rub right there, isn't it? Don't stay too close. Oh, my God. And Quark sees all of this, by the way. I like this the way the scene ends with, you can see Quark clock at all and he gets it. He knows his friend Odo. He knows he can see what's going on. And I thought that was a nice moment there at the end. If I may, it's not just

that he sees his friend Odo, he also knows his, he knows who Kira is. And I can, I can bet you that in that moment, I was thinking about both of them, not just about Odo. Yeah. Yeah, you're putting it all together. You're seeing the bigger picture, whereas Kira's oblivious to it. And, and Odo is too, in a way, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Right. All right. So now we're, we're in the corridor. Kira and Chakar are walking and talking, and clearly there's some chemistry, they're laughing. Odo is kind of lagging back, as told by Shakar, and you can tell he has the jealous vibe going on. Yes, he does.

It's very sad. Poor, oh, no. Yeah. But this isn't where he tries to kiss her, right? Is that later? What's later? That's later. That's later.

All right. So then it kicks over to the next shot outside the ward room. Shikar has just finished this meeting with the Federation representatives, I'm guessing. It's Odo outside, and Shikar's like, let's get out of here. I want to go back to my quarters. Odo leads him. Odo picks up on the fact that negotiations did not go well or they're not going well. They're trying to, again, speed up this timetable for what reason we have no idea.

I just don't know. And even Odo says, I've been working with the Federation for a number of years. They claim to be open understanding. Somehow they're always convinced that they're right, can be exasperating. And then they're talking about the admittance process. And it takes a certain amount of time. And it's just like, okay, again, why are we even having this scene? I don't understand.

I guess it's just to bring us over to Shakar's quarters. Yeah, the other thing that happens in this scene that I laughed at, it was clever writing, when Odo says i can tell it's not going well and choucars like how do you know and he says well bejornes are uh you know can't hide their emotions and chikar's response is oh so you're saying it's as plain as the nose on my face ah a bejorn joke i laughed the line about that you just quoted for us garrett they're always claimed that they're uh open to understanding yeah um i love that line uh because i tend uh when yep for quarks point of view i agree i agree

I figured you would agree to that. I would agree. Yes. I would have rather him saying, instead of serious, saying it's as plain as a nose on my face, if he said, so you're saying it's as his plane

as the Sydney Opera House on the tip of the bridge of my nose, as the Bajoran ridges on my nose, something like that. Like, it just, I wish it was more sci-fi, that comment. Does that make sense? It's, again, less sci-fi, more soap opera.

Yeah. Okay. Well, we go to Shikar's quarters. Odo's taken him back there. He's walked him back safely. And then we have our awkward man talk here. Oh, my God. And Shikar asks Odo if Odo's ever heard her say that she wants to be more than friends with him.

So Shikar's fishing. This is the C-W scene. This is totally C-W. This is the cringe scene. This is the one where I'm like, oh, please. Why do we have to watch Odo suffer? I mean, come on! Yeah.

Poor Odo. or he's he's in a bad spot yeah photo says no she's never said any and he does think about it he's like and that's what i liked about rene's performance is he's he's being a bit strategic in a lot of these moments where someone's asking for information whether it's kira or shakar or whoever he's he takes that moment to kind of go what should i say here he's very yeah i honestly felt that chikar's running commentary really, to me, it almost seemed like a stream of consciousness just coming out of his head what he was thinking. But in reality, to me, everything Chakar was saying is what Odo was thinking for himself. That's right. That's right. Of course, it's only natural. Maybe Chikar says,

maybe I should just be patient. Odo's thought that too. Uh, Shakar says, on the other hand, maybe I should let her know how I feel. It might help her get over her loss, which is exactly what Odo has thought before in the past, too. So I felt like everything Chakar was saying was really what Odo wanted to say. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes, 100%. Yeah, Odo's feeling all the same things that Choucar's talking about.

And this is a scene, Armin, like you were describing before, where Choucars out of focus. And Odo sort of turns and is listening and the camera pushes in on Odo. And you see Shakar, you hear him in the background. Yeah. Soft in the background. But it's really a moment about Odo taking all this in. I thought it was great. Choucar leaves the shot and it sort of hands off to Odo.

and then Choucar talks and walks. Yeah. And it's all just one shot focused on Odo. Audota. It was really great. Really great. And you couldn't do that with a lesser actor than Renee. It's not about talking.

It's just about listening. And Renee was very good at listening and reacting. And amazing that he could be so expressive with a makeup that was so neutral. Well, it's all in the eyes. It's all in the eyes. And that's what we're seeing. We're seeing the eyes and the physicality of the body. Yeah.

Yeah, it reminds me of resident alien. You know, Alan Tudik wears a big makeup when he's an alien. And we end up going in with visual effects and animating the eyes a little to be white, because the eyes don't move. It's a big black lens and the rubber over his face. So we try to give that makeup that doesn't really move. We try to give it some life and some expression. But it's amazing because René,

is able to pull this off with a makeup that's equally neutral static yeah but rene we can see we can see the eyes and and if i were an actor in an alien on your program and you were to cover up my eyes i was do we have to do this do we have to do this because really if you're covering everything else the only thing you're left with are these and your heart that's the only two things you're yeah all right we go to the ward room quark is topping off a punch bowl otto scanning all the all the food for danger poison yes

he does find a Ferengi spy device find it it's right there in front of him you didn't hide that very well I didn't and just I'm going really

really how stupid am I I often went to the writers and said just tell me what my IQ is just tell me what Quark's IQ is just tell me that then I can play this better I need to know because that's just where it's placed on top of a banana or something. It should be on the bottom of the bowl, not on top of the bowl.

Yeah, or inside a banana. Oh, inside a banana. Thank goodness. Yeah. And actually, the way I played it, I can almost believe what Quark was saying. I did too. I could almost believe that. Oh, there it is.

There it is. That's what I need that. Yeah. And I know, I see you the look on your face, Garrett, and I commiserate. we know cork so obviously he's doing that but you know every once in a while he probably does things that are what we assume could be it could be and he's defending himself here it's the asap tale about the boy who cried wolf if you tell enough lies people just assume they're all lies and in this case i thought maybe he is telling the truth i did too yeah i commiserate with cork because at the end

when Odo deliberately drops your tech into the ball and ruins it, I was very upset. I was, that bugged me. I was like, what the? Why are you doing that? That's just rude. I was very upset. Thank you.

You won't go. Well, Quark does say in the scene, he comments on how grumpy Odo is. And you call him on it in the scene. You say, you're in love with Kira and you're jealous. Basically, you say, you're in love with her, and you're jealous, and Odo freaks out, gets really angry, really defensive.

tells you stay out of my business yeah so clearly you were right i mean we know you're right but yeah yeah anybody that acts that reactively and defensively it's really the lady death protest too much yes yes uh back in the security office uh otto's laying out the the car the ractogeno mug exactly the same way as the as the teaser so again simple but elegant from less he did the same shot repeating the same action

shot the same way but this time care comes in and she's kind of distracted she says she had a rack to gino with Shakar already she doesn't want the one that Odo prepared and yeah she had it in his quarters which was a dagger to Odo's heart right there

yes yes she's going to give him a tour of the station she can't even stay for their normal meeting meeting and then she says thanks see you later she leaves i love this moment on renée at the end just sitting there his eyes were so just it was painful that's my point it's so painful watching this episode before we see the pain he smiles she goes out the door he smiles and then we watch the transition it just falls it just was really quite good good on less good on Renee, and he gave him the opportunity to be one thing and then melt into something else. Yeah.

I thought that was really quite good. We're in the upper pylon now, so they're actually, they're in the midst of the tour of the station. There's some witty rom-com dialogue that goes back and forth about the wormhole, very CW. And then, of course, Chakar does sort of start leaning in. He does the head tilt. He starts to come in for the kiss. and he notices Odo standing there, looking away, very obviously looking away,

trying not to be obtrusive, but that sort of ends the romance right there and they move on. I don't know how I feel about this, so I want feedback. That seemed like a very dark scene where the two of them. Is that to accent the romance, that instead of a moon, we have a wormhole? I think so. That was my take on it, yeah. Yeah. That they go to kind of the part of the ship where it's darker so you can see the star.

cars better and see the space and that was my take on it yeah they decide not to kiss each other because odos clearly very close and and then they go to a turbo lift they head to the docking ring well we're in the turbo lift now they're discussing a date in front of odo a meal they talk about boleian aged meat which sounds delicious to me by the way dry aged steak a little a little a little bollian pork belly is what you're looking for i didn't realize we had that many other restaurants i know we know there's a cling we've seen the cling on one but we haven't seen anything else besides the uh right that just that little cafe area corks the replomat quarks and the clingon spot that's all we've ever seen there's a bole in place now okay all right well they're discussing

all this when suddenly the turbo uh turbo lift goes offline it begins falling um Odo calls Wharf. Actually, he calls Wharf before they fall. Yeah. Does he? No, you know what happens? Oh, yes, he does. Yes, he's very important.

Yeah, so Warf's voice comes in, right? He goes, warf to Odo. A turbo lift is stuck on level 41. We're going to have to reroute you. And that actually was the guy with the voice simulator thing. So Odo says, verify your security code. I'll release controls to you. And then that's when he's distracted by Kira and Chakar, setting up the date.

He ends up releasing the control of the turbo lift to who he thinks is wharf, but that's the assassin, the operative for the true way. Oh, Odo. Distracted by love. Haven't we all been there? Yeah, we've all been there. Yeah, so the controls aren't responding. Oda's got to morph his arm into like a pile driver thing.

Which is problematic for me. I know that he can change, and I know that the cell structure in him can change. But where did he get this super-strivate? strength to be able to push out the side of the, that, that's new to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I thought he was going to do something else, like just completely morph and go up and pull a lever or something that, you know, there could have been a way that without having

superhero strength, like you say, that he could have used his changeling abilities to go do some morphine to see. Can I read this real quick, guys? Sure. Visual effects supervisor, Gary Hutzel, was. unhappy with the elevator seen in this episode. Not in how it looks, but in how it actually happens. Hutzel argues that I've always been of the mind that Odo is not Superman or a member of

the Fantastic Four. Once you establish that Odo can change himself into anything, then why should he ever be afraid of anything ever again? Somebody suggested that he should just push the walls out on the sides of the elevator to stop it. And I glommed at that. Of course, if he just stands there in his own form and pushes it out, then it's Superman. I wanted him to become some sort of a device, but the director was very adamant about seeing

Odo's face in the sequence, so we ended up with this hybrid. So already there's issues in production regarding this entire scene. Yeah, it's strange. This hybrid version is very strange. Yeah. And I have to criticize the other two actors because they're falling. one of my worst fears Yeah

And they were like Oh yeah Here we are falling It was like a walk through the park Armond There was absolutely no terror No tension And no drama at all

Between the between them Right It was just like Exactly It was like Okay Where we're the series regular And the guest are

And we'll just stand there And wait for the You know this to be over You guys are about to die You're about to die Does anyone understand About to die And that yes

that bothered me too. I was like, what's going on here? A little strange. Yes. Well, he saves the day. I did like, by the way, the shots in the in the turbolift shaft. Oh, of it falls at the camera or flies away. They kind of use that twice to end the act and also to start the next act. But I thought that was really cool. Very dynamic. Those look great. Yeah. We go to the captain's office. Cisco's very upset because he realizes auto made a mistake. Didn't confirm the security codes. So he was tricked. and Cisco said says whoever did this is still

on the station and I want to find them I want them found Cisco's kind of reprimanding Odo a bit here and we don't see Odo with his tail between his legs very often this is a big mistake for Odo that's perhaps where the crossfire comes

in perhaps is that this his feelings about Kira are getting the way of his responsibilities uses as health security. Yeah, that could work. He's stuck in the middle of doing his job well or dealing with his feelings. And again, the scenario that we didn't see that they thought about having to choose

between responsibility and faction. And so I rather liked this scene for Renee. I liked a lot of the scenes with Renee, but this was in particular. Yeah, it was good. It was good. All right. Next scene, we're in the security office, Warf and, Odor are there. Warf is trying to get to the bottom of what happened. He's suggesting different

options for them to look into. And Odo is just completely distracted. But, uh, warf says, did you hear anything I said? And Odo's like, I've heard every word. And Warf's like, well, doesn't appear like your mind is on work. So there's a lot of, uh, it's not. That's definitely not. It's definitely not. Yeah, so it's basically Wharf trying to admonish Odo for his lack of focus. But Odo sort of rebukes him. He's like, you follow your leads commander, I'll follow mine. He's going to go talk to Kira. And I actually would have wanted to see Worf's, I would have liked Worf to have had some lines in response to that.

And he did say this is not the way it was done on the enterprise. You know, this is so against what Worf has been through on next. generation right i wanted him to have some sort of retort yeah uh and and to sort of put odo in his place because this was a huge um mistake yeah on his part you could have gotten them all killed yeah yeah yeah all right so she he's go he goes off to talk to major kira um he's in the corridor where kira's uh quarters are Jimenez is there and he's wondering what all these men are there and Jimenez says Shikar, First Minister Shikar, is in major Kira's quarters. Well, how long?

Yeah, ever since the end of dinner, they've been there for about three hours and Odo basically takes over Jimenez's post. Menace is like, yeah, but I'm here until early. Ah, nope, I'm taking it over. You're relieved. I've got this. Get out of here. Oh my God.

And again, I'm just dying watching Odo that you're going to stand there the entire time they're having Nookie and you're just going to. stand there and he does until the morning stands there all night all night long doesn't move and that's antithetical to who otto is let me yes why go just physically he has to regenerate hello oh wow i didn't think about can't stay there you can't stay there no can't stay there all morning he has to regenerate yeah that that's a given in his character he cannot stay there for as long as that is and not regenerate It violates everything we know about Odo and his physicality. But, Armin, have you ever heard of the power of love?

The power of love. I had, but it was many years ago. It's given Odo the ability to, he doesn't need to, he doesn't need, love is regenerating him. Okay. Hey, look at that. Robbie just solved everything for us. Thank you, Robbie. No, I didn't think of that, Armin.

That's very smart. you say well i'm a little bit more attached to these characters yes no you're right you're absolutely it did not occur to me but he stands there all night long he's got to go regenerate so it's got to be the love that's all i can think of well in the morning uh the door opens kira's in a nightgown kind of thing chakar comes out he heads off to his meeting and otta says uh kira can may i come in can we talk so he goes inside she says yes come on in he goes inside there's champagne on the table ohto notices it so she turns the lights on yeah she turns the lights on yes and anyway she starts going off about how she can't believe this romance is happening

with sure right right and odo just listens um he's heartbroken he even turns away at one point She comes and hugs him, which is even just salt on the wounds there. She says, you're the first to know about all this. And he goes, okay, thanks. I think we'll just talk later. And he heads out to the hall and the door is shut. And there's a nice moment with him all by himself out there. Again, I put down less knows where to put the camera.

Because you could have just panned him out the door. Yeah. But here's this moment, this extra moment where Otto comes outside and the door shut. and we kind of get into his heart and his head in that moment. I thought it was really good. As I said earlier, I always wanted to know what my IQ was. I wanted to know what her IQ was. I mean, you don't, you have to, this is a very intuitive character.

She knows a lot. She's worked with these people. Even if she doesn't know his feelings for her, she should have least been a little bit sensitive to the fact that he's not himself. He's not himself. Yeah, she's completely oblivious. Yeah. She asks him twice during this episode,

anything wrong. She knows there's something wrong. Right. But it doesn't seem important. Doesn't seem important enough to really pay attention. She just blathers on as, as though she was a 15-year-old girl. This is not the Kira that we've come to know. No. I mean, at some point, I feel like Kira should have said it maybe had some conversation with herself where she's like, wait a minute, does Odo actually, no, there's no way. I mean, she never even does that once. You know, she's oblivious to what Odo's. But the heartbreaking, really, I know, Rob, you talk about that. at the end of the scene where you get you kind of have that last shot of otto thinking and just sort of taking it all in but i i love the shot of of odo when she was hugging him from behind

you can see on his face he is just in so much pain he's just like well he's happy that he's getting hugged but at the same time he's like oh this should be me and you all the time you know kind of a thing so it's heartbreaking poor guy poor guy all right we go in the security office And suddenly, an alien's getting arrested in there. Wharf has caught this assassin. He's wrapped it all up. The danger's gone. I wrote down, well, that was easy.

Everything happened off camera. This whole threat for the whole episode suddenly, which in a way, I could argue, because we're in Odo's point of view, and Odo has been so distracted by love that it's kind of we're experiencing what Odo is experiencing, which is wait, what has. What? Yeah. What just happened? I like that because it is really what's going on.

He's so wrapped up in this. He's not even doing his own job. He doesn't even know what's going on in the station. And was that assassin, was that assassin Lethean? It looked like the guy that comes up and does the energy on your head and reads into who you are. Maybe. It was a cool makeup. We didn't see much of it.

He was out the door. But he's an operative. We know that. He's not a Cardassian. He's an operative for the true way, the Cardassian Splinter Group. Yeah. And Worf does constantly. compliment Odo in the scene where he says, well, your deputies are very well trained.

You've done a great job. Yeah. They assisted me. So, Odo didn't assist him, but the deputies did. Randy did. Randy, who's in a lot of his shots, as a background performer and the standing for Renee, did a great job. He did a great job. We go to Odo's quarters next.

Odo is losing it. He starts breaking things. I love his moves. He's like, he's like he's done martial arts training. Well, yeah. he's losing it, but it's very focused losing it. Like the way he hits things, he's like, okay, and bha! And then this one at bat!

It's not like, all over the place. It's just one at a time. Things get knocked over. I want to say the plant, which Odo destroys against the wall to begin his rampage, was given to him in the episode, The Abandoned by Kira. And the pot where the plant was in was the original bucket that Odo had previously used to regenerate into.

But obviously he doesn't need to regenerate anymore, or so what the point? He doesn't need it. Oh, because he's got love regenerating, according to Robbie. So that makes the destruction of the plant and the pot highly symbolic. But the destruction of the sculpture, that gave me pause. I went, again, he seems a little stronger than I know him to be. Right.

Because that thing was made of metal, wasn't it? And here he is just. Steel or something. He just, again, man of steel, he is Superman in this episode, for sure. And didn't you love the wisp of hair? Yes. came down to I,

whoever thought of that brilliant. Brilliant. I will tell you exactly who thought of that. So in the scene where Cork finds Odo

sitting on the ground of his demolished room, a strand of Odo's hair is loose. This was an improvisation by actor René auberginois. Some of the producers, Iris Stephen Bear, included, weren't happy with the look,

but they decided to leave it in the episode because it was argued that if Odo's hair is falling out of place and his hair is part of him, then it symbolizes that Odo is literally falling apart. According to Obeir Genoa, however, I just pulled some strands because I was trying to evoke an image from a Japanese print I'd seen of a warrior in defeat.

So that's him elevating this episode and making it a little bit of an art form, right? But yeah, he saw this image years ago of a Japanese warrior, you know, that was defeated sitting on the ground. So he just did the same thing by pulling the hair out like that. Oh, very cool. Good job, Renee. And you know, Renee's grandfather was a great painter, a impressionist,

and actually hangs in the Dorsay in Paris. Really? I did not know that. Yeah. So he was brought up on art. Well versed in art. Yeah. Wow.

Fascinating. Yeah. Well, Quark comes in and steals the scene in those pajamas for me. Beautiful pajamas. Beautiful pajamas. almost well he he tries to come in and odos says go away and then he picks the lock he puts in a code and he comes in anyway he's like this shape shifting has to stop like all this noise which was a

great call back to that earlier scene right and otto says that he was right about all of it and quirk realizes you know the pain that he's in he he sees what's going on here and then he he tells odo about this betting pool that he's got to get back to who his normal self because it's costing quark money and he's losing these bets and he has to resolve all of this and get back to being himself because he's not good it's not good for either of them it's not good for you and it's not good for me and the betting yes is important to quark but i but my character is smart enough to say that the rest of the people on the station The reason we can have the betting pool is they all respect you.

They know that you'll always get your man. And it's building up his ego while he sits there with his ego crushed. It's subtle, but it's there. That's why the writers put those words in Quark's mouth is to say, you're a better man than this. You're a respected man. You're a respected man in the community. You need to get back to who you are.

Can you speak to the very final two lines of this scene? Odo says, funny, for a minute there, I thought you were talking to me as a friend and Cork, big pause. Nah. Just that ending. What I can certainly talk to it. That was the running game that the two characters had.

Okay. Which was, there was affection, but we would never admit to it. Got it. Never admit to it. He does the same, you don't know this, I'm giving you a teaser in the very last episode.

he does the same thing to me. Oh, wow. Wow. All right. Thank you. Yeah, I think that I would imagine that Quark had an impulse to be more personal, but he used this bedding pool as the vehicle. Keeps enough distance.

Yeah. If you spoke heart to heart to someone who was in pain, they'll listen for a little while and then they're in pain and they don't want to hear about it. But if you go at it obliquely, I think it's a way of the person and pain hearing more of it. Quirk was very smart. Very smart. And that's where my IQ jumped

to 100 points. But your fashion quotient went down with the PJs. Your fashion score. And the slippers. Took a hit without that scene. Forgive me and I'm jealous. I admit to it.

Curia is in a gorgeous sort of a negligee. It was negligee, but a nighttime apparel. Yes. And I'm in, in, what, What are those, what was those things called

that kids wore with the flap in the back? Like footy PJs, I don't know. But there was a, there was a term for what. Long John's. There was something else where the kids were in the flap came down in the back. And anyway, it looked like it's a really childish, immature, that's immatures a world,

but just childish apparel. And I thought, really, Bob, did you have to put me in that? Especially when one z. Onezie. Yeah, onezie, that's it. that's it um when when the scene really has got some oomph to it could it have helped upgrade the childlike wensie if you had some type of sleep hat with it like a silk you know have to be a very big hat to fit on that head okay it could have been anything but it just it just i thought

i thought why do we have to go back to that why why do we have to make fun of this character when it's not necessary. Robbie, did you feel that it was... It's not that it's making fun. It's just not taking it seriously. Light and silly. Light and silly. Oh, okay. It did feel that way to me.

Okay. A little bit. Okay. The one thing that's essential for later on in the episode, one of the pieces of advice that Quark gives to Odom, just pointing this out now

so we can use it later, is he says, you have to get back to essentials. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we're in Curious Quarter.

Odo is there to talk to her. Kira's like, what brings you here? And I thought, watching this, I said, he's going to come clean. Here it is. This is going to be it. But he just says, nope. Our Tuesday morning meetings are never going to happen again. We don't need to do that.

We're just going to stick to the essentials. And she even asked him when he's leaving. She says, well, no more belt. And he's like, nope, just trying to keep to the essentials major. And he walks away out of there. But this is his way of just, he's shutting down now. I think he wanted to tell her. This is what I saw in the performance.

I think he wanted to tell her and couldn't. I did too. I felt that way. I felt like he went in more thinking that he was going to be honest and faced suddenly, faced with her. He relied on Quark's advice. I'm just going to go to the essentials. And as much as what the final scene is about,

about the floor and everything, more than anything, it's a credit to Quark and Odo's relationship. that he says, I'm just going back to the essentials, which is the words, as I said before, right out of Quark's mouth. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, we do go to Quarks.

Odo arrives. Quark says, Kieran Shkar upstairs. They're practicing a speech. Quark says he stopped by Oda's quarters and learned that they're installing some soundproofing flooring. So kind of him. He thanks him.

And Oda denies doing it for him. He said, I wouldn't go through three days of construction for you. I wouldn't do that for you. Are you kidding me? But Quirk gets it. They're back to their normal banter. Things are back to, yeah, as Quarks said, got to get back to who you are, back to normal. And that's what he does. At the end of the scene, he goes back to guarding the Promenon. Yep. Right. And then we see the actor who you mentioned earlier in that one shot. Yes, Darin Ricas. He's in white and Renee's just walked out the door. got it but all we see is the back of darrell yeah okay i did like that sort of final shot it was

like otto going off into the sunset back to his normal job right to patrolling keeping peace and security on the on the ship um it's very good i wrote down the heart wants what the heart wants. But then I wrote down, but Odo doesn't have a heart. That's my lesson. So maybe the liquid wants what the liquid wants. Yes. Okay. Armand, did you have a lesson from this? I was trying to, this was a hard one to find a lesson in for me. And I was looking about for quotes. And I found a quote that I thought, oh, this will work. The quote was, unrequited love. does not die it's only beaten down to a secret place where it hides curled and wounded and I thought that was the lesson I also thought what we've just been discussing might indeed be the theme of

the show which is concentrate on the essentials which is what he didn't do that's why the elevator accident happened and you have to concentrate on the essentials yeah it's interesting I think you're right in a way that is a big lesson of this is like don't let your heart as important as that may feel don't let it throw you off of who you truly are essentially are don't lose yourself you know yeah in my shakespeare classes i always say to people don't let the pathos overcome the logos pathos is feelings logos is argument is a logical argument love it my lesson here is with no risk there is no reward because sometimes you got to risk it if you want to get the biscuit and if he had risked talking to kira who knows what could have

happened you don't know i have a feeling he's going to talk to kira i hope so i think so all right i don't think this whole shakar thing is going to work out because he's only in one more episode as you said true so there you go all right our patreon poll winner for theme less and more of this episode is submitted by Nicole Breddle, and that is unrequited love can be painful, but one can't let it control one's life. Good. All righty, we're at the end of our episode.

Next time, we will be recapping, discussing the episode Return to Grace with Terry, and also next time, return to grace with Terry, will also include special guest, Nanavisitor. We want to thank Armin for joining us and hosting us on this episode. Thank you. And for all of our Patreon patrons,

please stay tuned for your bonus material. You know, but Thank you.