The Delta Flyers - Dax

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

The Delta Flyers is a weekly podcast hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode is Dax.Dax: Jadzia Dax is accused of a murder that her previous host, Curzon, supposedly committed.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Janet K Harlow, Brian Barrow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Vikki Williams, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Matt Norris, & Izzy JafferOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Chris Knapp, Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas,  Matthew Gravens, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Mary Jac Greer, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Tom Paynter, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Steven Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Mars DeVore, Stephanie Lee, & David SmithAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Meredith Hudes-Lowder, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Species 2571, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Samantha Hunter, Jamason Isenburg, Ashley Stokey, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jennifer Jelf, Justin Weir, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Ryan Benoit, John Richardson, Rachel Shapiro, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Ryan Tomei-Siguroarson, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Shane Pike, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Akash Patel, Linda Daireaux, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Preston Meyer, Lisa Hill, Stacy Davis, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Pamela Miller, Rik Moran, Jan Hanford, Constance, Loretta ReyesThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts along this journey are Terry Farrell, our enchanting science officer, Garrett Wong, our Forever Ensign, and myself, your favorite helmsman. Robert Duncan McNeil. Today we have Terry Farrell with us. Terry, so good to see you again.

Robbie, great to see you. And Garrett. Enchanting science officer. Look at these descriptive words. She's enchanting. Yes, right? I would have used mesmerizing. But enchanting is probably a synonym to, right?

Enchanting mesmerizing, they're about the same. They're all good. Flattery. Flattery will get you everywhere. That's what we're all about. Yeah, we're here to flatter Terry Farrell. You know, are you feeling more comfortable with this podcast now? Are you starting to feel?

Yeah. Okay, good. It feels that way to me, too. I still, oh, yeah, you are feeling more comfortable being around me. Yeah, just with the, yeah, to go from just me and Garrett. Yeah, it has to be an adjustment for you guys. It is, 100%. Typically, we're enchanted by you, so it's hard for us to speak.

Exactly. So now we're more used to you. Oh, not true. You guys. are so silly yes i am i do still have like um when you have to say your opinion and everything i feel like i still get you know like the rating or whatever it's like hard to kind of dig into what do i really feel about it to be honest but you know it's hard it's hard yeah don't be afraid to give a lower rating like if you feel like that episode really was not up to

up to par if you've got criticism share it yeah don't give it a seven if you think it's a so, so, say, hey, this is a six or this is a 5.5, but it's, it's your honest opinion, right? So that's what people want to know. I mean, you can't, I mean, sugar-coting it is one thing, but I do think your rating is still your own rating and you should make it yours. So, you know. Oh, thank you for saying it that way. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. All right, we've got a couple of birthdays we want to announce. We've got Liz Scott, Liz Scott on January 22nd. Happy birthday, Liz.

Happy birthday, Liz Scott. Happy birthday, Liz Scott. And we also have Mr. Jameson Eisenberg, aka the Will Wheaton doppelganger. I'm telling you right now. If you look at Jameson's face, it's Will Wheaton.

He has long hair, but if you don't look at the long hair in just his face, you would swear that's Will's brother or cousin. I mean, that's how close it is. It's insane. But happy birthday to Jameson, January 26th. Happy birthday, Jameson.

Happy birthday. Happy birthday. We love Will Whiten. And we love Jameson, too. We love Jameson, too. There you go. Welcome back. We have watched this episode, Dax.

We have Dax with us. And we're going to start with a little poetry synopsis. I'll start with my limerick for the episode, Dax, here we go. There's a warrant for murder for Dax, but the logic of her guilt has some cracks.

Cisco argues Jad Z is an angel. Odo finds out the widow was unfaithful. Maybe Curzon should have kept on his slacks. Look at that. He put in slacks. I love it. I love it.

I love it. Keep your pants on. Keep your pants on. Keep those slacks on. Go, Terry Farrow. What's your, go. I want to hear you. I want to hear your poem.

I'll run it up. I just, this was hard for me. Okay, this is terrible, but I'm prefacing it with that. Because I'm a little embarrassed to even share. They're supposed to be a little bit awkward. Okay. Yeah. I hope they're supposed to be because of mine are always awkward.

So no, I thought it was good slacks. a time for tough choices does she reveal internal voices a woman's honor is at stake will jadzia break and then i have notes male photos call about PayPal I thought that was part of your poem I'm like what and then I have notes I was like I can't I can't I can't I could It was good. I couldn't think of things to rhyme. It was so hard.

And I thought, well, the good thing is I'm going to practice on the shows that I'm not on. Yes. Because I think it's a matter of my brain. Yeah, my brain's not used to doing this creative move that you're doing. But I love it. It's fun. It is fun. Now, my haiku for Dex, the episode Dex, not just for Terry Farrow.

Here we go, for Terfair. Dax is abducted. Treason and murder suspect. Herzan was boinking. Quaking. Blinking is not a very poetic word, but somehow he worked it into a high-cook. And that's amazing. Blinking.

And somehow, coming from him, it works. It works. Exactly. Exactly. Can we just talk about the guest stars? We have Gregory Ittson, Robbie, do you recognize this gentleman? Yes. He was on our show.

He's very good friends with Bob Picardo. That's right. He played Dr. Dysick in the episode Critical Care on Voyager. So the really posh, remember the two levels, like the level that had really bad health care and the really nice one. He was in the really nice one. Also, he was vice president on 24, eventually become president on 24, Anne Heaney, Richard Linebacker. Or Lineback. Oh, it's Lineback.

I wrote Linebacker because I wanted it to be Linebacker. It's Richard Linebacker. Yes. And I thought, this is amazing, because I love football and I thought, I've never heard of a person with a name lineback. It's so close to linebacker. And I wrote linebacker. Nice try to get sports ball. I try to get it in there.

I like it. I like it. How do you pronounce the last one then, Robbie? Is it Fianoole? Phanola Flanagan. Fanola? Phanola. Benula.

Vanula. Vanula Flanagan. Okay. Yes. It must be a Celtic name. Oh, she's so good. She's such a great. Great actress.

Is she the widow? She's the widow? Okay. Who's Anne Heaney then? Anne Haney is... She is the judge. Oh. And you've seen her in numerous things as well.

She's been a very talented woman. They're both really strong actresses. Really, really good job. Yeah. All really good actors. I do want to say the teleplay by D.C. Fontana and Peter Allen Fields with story by Peter Allen Fields, D. D.C. Fontana wrote on the original series.

Yes. Correct. And this was her. last Star Trek script she ever wrote this script yeah gosh these are the kind of things you think I wish we were more aware of it when we were doing it at the time to celebrate her to go in meet her or you know what I mean it's crazy yeah missed opportunities David Carson directed this episode I am typing in his name just try to show this picture to tear fair just because David Carson yeah unless she remembers him do you remember him yes oh you do it okay good okay

Of course I do. He did the pilot. Right. I had to show you Corey Allen's picture, though. You didn't remember Corey. So I did that yesterday. Well, that's different. It's different. When it's the pilot, you're like, it's part of the person. He's part of the process. I thought Paul Lynch did the pilot. Okay. I thought Paul did the pilot. No? David Carson did the pilot. Paul Lynch did all the first episodes. Paul did a ton of the early episodes. Right. So you heard. Do you have a good relationship with David Carson then, would you say? I would say, yeah. I mean, it was.

fine at the time I don't really I mean when you're not speaking in the scene you're not talking to the director a whole lot yeah yeah he's British right is that what it says this is British on here I don't know maybe not I think so yeah I think so too I don't isn't that funny a thing not to remember his accent yeah yeah I don't know did he talk like this or did he have right I don't remember I don't know okay I remember he was kind and um they there were a lot of British directors on Star Trek back in the old in in this era right I think so who do we have Robbie I don't even remember if we had a Brit well Paul I'm I'm I was just thinking about Paul Lynch Paul Lynch was Australian I think actually oh oh really okay yeah okay I think

Paul was an Aussie and I think um or a Brit and I and David Carson's a Brit and well Rick Colby who did our show not a Brit but he was German German that's the only non-American is that from Voyager, I only remember. Alan Craker Canadian, from Saskatchewan. That's really, I don't count that as foreign country. It's almost a same continent. It's the same landmass. Part of the Commonwealth.

They celebrate the Queen's birthday. He's North American. Yeah. He's North American is what he is. Well, let's move into this story because the story was, this story was actually really fascinating to me. This was a moral dilemma. that was very sci-fi.

Okay. I love when these episodes take a moral dilemma, but in a sci-fi way that only a sci-fi show could tell this story. It was really good. We start with a station log. Station log says, Chief O'Brien has escorted his wife back to Earth to celebrate her mother's 100th birthday. Two thoughts there.

Wow. Her mother's 100. That's amazing. And the other thought was, was Cole doing a movie? That was my other thought? Probably. Yeah. Because when you, you know, when you do a station log explaining why one character is not there,

that our immediately thought is like, he's working on something in Ireland right now, an independent film probably. Yeah. He did a lot of movies, didn't he? He was always off out of episodes to do movies. Yeah. That's a theme, though, isn't it? The number?

Because that's the age of the judge. Yes, I was going to say that later, yes. Everybody's 100 in this episode. Everyone's 100 in this act. The judge was 100, too? The judge was 100, exactly. Yeah, she looks great for 100. She does.

She really did. We go to the replomat, the first scene, Dax and Bashir discussing broken systems while Miles O'Brien is gone. And Dax is really into studying the models of these systems and the way they function. And Bashir is just trying to make small talk and flirt with her. again. Yeah. I don't think it's small talk at all. I think it's just flirt. Everything is just leading to the flirt. Oh my gosh. It's unbelievable. Did you, Terry, did, so if Combe went to do a movie and we didn't, you didn't have an engineer, did you take over that sort of like,

because you were the science officer and because it feels that way in this episode, like you're kind of diving in the house of business, you know, what his department is. Yeah, definitely in this episode I help. Yeah. But later, and I forgive me, I don't remember that actors, name but later they hire somebody and I think well he comes in more often so they hired so so when Cole was off they hired everybody helps some right but then there was an actor who and I don't remember his name I'm so sorry but I already saw him in a few of the episodes we've been watching yeah and then you just start to see him more often like they hired him to be more of a reoccurring character well they needed because of Cole whenever

on so often. Yeah. Yeah, we needed somebody there. Yeah. So obviously, I mean, that was pretty cushy thing to be a regular and TV series and fly and go do movies and come back and I feel that. Right. Robbie, I do feel that he had that written into his contract or something before him. Because any time that we, anytime Terry that Robbie and I tried to get time off to go do anything else we got kiboshed every time it was like no sorry this is your main job you know whatever other thing that you're looking at you can't do it sorry yeah it had to be in his contract yeah yeah it did yeah yeah because i could doubt to do something either and that's one of the biggest things that i was nope you let yeah see others do it it's not fair and i wasn't asking

to go away for six weeks i was asking for five days right let's see and even that was kind of crazy yeah that was not approved was it so yeah it's kind of amazing that no but that's where i had to go like you got to put your foot down yeah yeah he's not once you set the precedent and i don't even mean column that's different his that's his contract right from the get go but when you know the the other actors have gone and done stuff Terry can i ask you is it you can comb column column how do you pronounce his first name Honestly, I don't, he's never told me not to say his name. I say, call him.

Call him. Yeah, but I could be saying it wrong. I don't know. He's so kind. He would never correct anybody. No, I don't think so. I think it's an accent thing too, right? So we say it differently than I'm sure if he's in Ireland, how it's pronounced or English.

Do you like pronunciation? Yeah, I don't know. Okay. I don't know. I never thought to ask him. I'm going to ask him next time I see him. which is very rare. I don't see him that often.

Yeah, I don't either. Yeah. Or he lives in Spain. Yes, that's true. That could be it. But you know what I love the unicorn idea. Yes, we're flirting. Back to our scene.

Which is pretty too bad. Yeah. Yeah, but she's flirting. And he's so cute. He's super cute. I don't know why he didn't go for that. Yeah, that's it. He was just too young.

But there's some creepy guys. He wasn't fully baked yet. No. No, but the creepy guys are watching him flirt. The creepy guys are back behind a grading, creepy stalker guys. Okay. And they're like, is that tax? Just like my real life.

Yes. All right. Did you realize who's back there watching in the shade, in the little dark area? It was. It's Tandro, right? It's the main guy. But who's the guy talking to him, though? I had to watch it twice for me to know.

It's the trill. that's later in the it's the true guy that's later in the trial crazy i'm like trying to figure out what do you mean i didn't know that it was him i thought it was his henchman his henchman i thought so too no it was the later there's the there's a trial and there's a true yeah right because they because they said we're going to have a hearing and then there was there was comments about like well how how convenient there's a trill that you have here in your in your argument for the hearing that guy just randomly happened to be in the station he was there to identify He's a spy trill.

He was a spy trill. That sounds really cool. Spy trill. All right. So the men come out of their hiding place. And I like the tag. It cuts back to Bashir. And he's like, not necessary, Julian, but not forbidden either.

The way he talks to himself. Yeah. So he's going to go follow her, even though she said, you don't need to walk with me. Yeah. Thank goodness. right yeah yeah so she's walking down this corridor yeah no you should I go ahead you walk down the corridor okay so she's walking down the corner she's all alone and the bad guy what's his name tandoro tanro Elon tantro creepy stalker guy with now he's got a couple minions with him and they ask

if she's dax they ask her that and then they basically try and kidnap her and Bashir who didn't take no for an answer shows up thank god okay and tries to fight them off what what was that move that he did like he he runs full go yeah no okay so before he goes and does that move yeah why isn't he like you know hey security stop it yeah or call him hell yeah yeah he didn't do that no if there's two of us there's three of them because he's clearly enchanted by you he's trying to mesmerize he's trying And he doesn't know. See, half baked, not fully based. He's not old.

He's not, he's still a kid. He's not done yet. It takes both of his hands and punches the guy. Well, that's the old Star Trek move, the double hand clenched thing, okay? I dig it. Right. I liked it, actually. I thought it looked funny because he, because he, with such force, he ends up, he hits the guy,

but his momentum carries him forward and he crashes into the wall and then onto the ground. And Robbie, did you notice who did the stunt there? No, who was it? danger danger it was tennis yeah because you know why I know when he does a head snap from the back I don't even have to look at his face his whole little hit snap whenever he gets punched is identical every time he does it I'm like it's freaking danger again with a wig on you know but it was yeah it was danger all right danger by the way he had so much hair he had that like he had that rocker hair yeah he did rocker John Bon Jovi kind of hair yeah he had great yeah he had great

hair. Yeah. He's an old school rocker guy. He's a, you know, for me. Yeah. I liked him. He was so great to me always. Oh, yeah. Wonderful, sweet guy. Wonderful, sweet guy. Never saw him lose it. Yeah, always, always, always in a good mood, joking around, you know? And then he treated his guys on his his stunt crew well, you know what I'm saying? He wasn't a taskmaster. He was always joking around with those guys too. No, and if he ever got serious, he was, he wasn't mean about it ever. It was like, But it got serious. It was like, oh, everybody pay attention. Yes.

Yes. For sure. A lot of respect for him. Anyway, but speaking of stunts, you did your own stunts in the scene. It didn't look like you had a double. This was all you, wasn't it? It might have been when getting thrown to the floor, it was usually my stunt person. Okay.

They don't let me do the, like, so if you notice how you'll know it's not me is that you don't see my face when you see the landing. And they threw you down that one point. That was your stunt woman. Exactly. Did you have the same one? It worked great for me. Yeah. I thought it was you the whole time.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. She was really great. Especially, I think her name was Casey. Sadly, she passed away from cancer. Oh. Yeah.

It's not sad. But she was great. And it was really not easy to find a double for me. Sure. Because of your height. Six feet tall. Yeah. Yeah.

And by the way. And then thin. Yeah. And thin. Exactly. On that note, talking about people who passed away, we didn't mention Gregory Itson passed away as well last year. So, yeah.

No. 2022, yeah. Oh, no. That's sad. It is. It really is. And Robbie and I have been, you know, when we did our show, we would talk about, we would try to get in touch with some of these guest stars and we realized, oh, my gosh, they passed

away three years ago or they passed away a year after we wrapped the show. It was like, oh, my goodness. We didn't know any of these things. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I found out to other people in the last. last week that I, not in my life anymore, but we're at one point have passed away. And it just, there are people our age, right, around, well, not you because you're so young,

Garrett. But. Forever young. But thank you. Okay. Forever young. Oh, all right. Yeah, but it's weird that when you know your contemporaries are dropping like flies, right?

It's like, oh, my gosh, that's so-and-so, they're younger than me and they have passed. Yeah. Yeah. 58 heart attack. Yeah, 62 heart attack. Just you go, wow, wow, yeah, we're that age. We're around that age. Well, that's one reason I'm so glad we're doing these rewatches

is to kind of revisit some of those people who were incredibly talented. And we, you know, I'm so grateful that I got to work with some of these people. Yeah. Gregory always had stories, too. He was one of those people on the set that could, like, focus on two things. and still be brilliant in the sane. And, oh, I'm just like, it's so sad. Well, he's wonderful in this episode.

All right. So there's fights, there's stunts. They drag Dax away. And her com badge is taken. Do they rip it off or does it fall off? They rip it off and throw it down? Is that what happens? I think they take it off.

They remove it. Yeah. All right. they take it off so that she can't be traced. That's what it was. You know, it's so funny, it's like getting the episodes mixed up. I'm like thinking, no, Colum took his off. Pauline took it off.

No, that was too. No, that was a different. That was a pursuit. Oh, we're just getting started. Wait till how confused you'll be after a hundred episodes. I will be, I will look like this background is what my head is feeling like on the inside. Oh, my goodness. So she's taken away.

We go to ops next, and Kira picks up some odd readings, informs the commander. But he doesn't seem very worried about it. He just says, you know, run some diagnostics. We're back in the corridor. And Bashir, who was knocked out, starts to wake up. Now he decides to use his comm badge. Not before, but now. Brilliant.

He calls to ops. And he's kind of still a little delirious. He's so dazed. I think he has a concussion. He's just like three people. I think they just took Jedzy. He's not even making sense. He's just like, what?

Okay. No. They took Jedzia. That's all we know. They took Jedziah, yes. Cisco calls a full station alert. Secure all the turbo lifts, seal off airlocks. He loves me.

Yeah, he really loves Dax. Calls for the computer to locate Dax. I thought in this moment when Cisco was barking out the orders for security, I was like, Odo's right. behind him and otto's not saying anything and usually otto is like the one that takes charge if it's security he's like this is my sandbox but in this moment cisco this is my sandbox yeah don't play in my sandbox my toys yeah but i did to me that did that did feel like cisco has a special place that that he is taking charge of the security steps not odo because of debt because it's dax yeah because of the long

relationship they've had that's why for sure yeah but he does realize that when they you know when the computer says lieutenant dax is on level six corridor one uh that's when bashir chimes in he's no no no no no that's where i am the con badge is right here she's not here yeah so now they have no clue where they are um we cut to another corridor there's tandoro and his minions taking dax yep um i i'm in a note here his because we see his hands in these scenes pretty good and he's wearing these gloves that look like robot hands. Did you see those gloves? Yes. They've got all those metallic things on there. What is that? I don't know. Well, it was a robot glove. Did he had, did they need to cover his hands for a reason? I don't know. It looked like Iron Man. It looked

like, well, it looked like Dr. Doom kind of thing from, you know, comic books. So, and it was like, why are you guys wearing those? And then it wasn't, I think the henchmen also had the same gloves on. have the robot gloves? Yeah, maybe there's something that's a specific alien thing for that. Maybe it shields them from being scanned or something because they can't, what? What kind of aliens were they? What do they say that they were?

They're from Cretone, Crate, Crayton or something. Isn't that crazy? Cretonians, maybe? Cretonians. Cotonians. Yeah, cartoonians. That's what they are. I remember thinking, okay, what kind of aliens are they as I'm watching it?

I called them. I don't know them saying. It looked like their skin formed a wave. Like, I wanted to surf on their ear. You know, like, there's a wave over their ear. Like, they had a permanent flesh headset on. You know what I'm saying? Like, they're waiting to, like, they're like DJs.

They're all DJs with headsets. There you go. But they're ears. I was thinking more like gills. Like, gills. They're fish like. They're fish like people. Absolutely.

Well, Mr. Robot Hand has, as Dax. We cut to off. And there's Odo and Kira looking at these security cameras. They're looking around for Dax. And I noticed in these security feeds that there was nobody in the hallways. And I'm thinking, in any hallway. Not a single hallway had a civilian. There was no background actors.

There was nobody. Are they all asleep? This is like a busy station. There should be some people. You know, maybe it was a budget thing. Because this seems like a very. Clearly a budget thing. No, it seemed like there's a very tight.

budget, right? This would be one of those episodes where it's like we spent the money on the pilot and on all of those special Odo. Yeah, they're catching up. And all the Odo special effects. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. We're kind of a lot of them in the last few episodes. Yes, there have been. Well, the way I was able to wrap my head around that, because I saw that too, Robbie. I'm like, they're looking at all these video screens and there's not a single soul walking through any of the ship. So I said, okay, no, no, no, let's let in real life, in the real life, in the real. real world. What's the parallel? In Spain, people take a siesta where everyone goes and takes a nap and chills out for like an hour. DS9 has a siesta time. They have a siesta time. And they're totally

just like chilling out. I love it. I don't believe it. I love it. I can't wait for the episode about the siesta zone. It's when Odo's in the bucket. Yes. When Odo's in the bucket, everyone takes siesta. Everyone takes a quarantine. Yes. So they instead of siesta time, they call it bucket time. So So everyone just chills out during that time. There you go. All right. So they're looking at the security cameras. Cisco says scan the docking ring for warp capable ships.

He discovers that they have, these aliens have these kidnappers, Mr. Robot Hand, disabled the tracking beam. Yeah. Which means we won't be able to tractor, you know, the tractor beam. They won't be able to tractor anybody if they do escape. Kira now says there's eight, there's eight ships that could be. that are warp-capable. Cisco orders all the hatches to be sealed,

all the hatches to the docks. So nobody can get on a ship and get out of here. But I think the important thing, though, Robbie, in this scene is that we realize that they know more about this station than anyone else does. So it's like, wait a minute. That's the important thing.

Yeah, like, how do they know all this? They've tapped into everything. They know how to avoid the security cameras, avoid this, avoid that. So, yeah, something's going on. Well, even in the next scene, they're in the corridor, and they use their little tech gadget to override the locks.

This goes lock the force field that he put up. Yeah. So he has a little like, you know, some kind of gadget. Yeah. Sticks, a magnetic thing, sticks on the wall, beep, beep, and then they can get through. Yeah. Dax is very disoriented, but there's one thing that always bugs me in these kind of scenes. When someone is supposed to be knocked out or being taken hostage, as an actor, we've all

done this. We're supposed to be getting dragged by people, but, but we're supposed to be kind of delirious in some way. I wish that when they kidnapped her, they would have like drugged her or done something and carried her out or carried her, but we're in this sort of middle ground where you're walking. You're able to walk yourself. I looked at my feet. I was like, I didn't see my feet moving, but I'm sure. Yeah, that you were supporting your weight. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't. I didn't just dead drop there. No. Mm-mm.

Yeah. And I agree with you totally. I would have liked it better too. I think all actors would like it better. Yeah. Just give me a shot. A little drug thing, a shot. And then you're like you're hot and whatever in your mouth, right?

To make it look like you've had chloroform. Because if she had the ability to walk, she would have the ability to dig her heels in to not go with them, right? Yeah. She wasn't resisting. And I wish that there had been just one extra little helpful. thing yeah we go back to ops though they do locate them back in the airlock desk dax asks them why are you taking me you know she's finally waking up a little enough to ask them that and but they

bypass this force field they're getting onto their ship back on ops they can't stop this ship from launching but cisco works really hard he gets the tractor beam back online and we cut out to space and bam just in time as they're escaping the tractor being grabs the ship they've stopped them from kidnapping dax oh i just thought of something maybe those gloves maybe when they touch dax they kind of make her all like oh the robot hands their robot hands or like have some type of like you know like paralysis thing where you can't speak very well magic robot hands yes but only your legs work so you can magic robot hands for christmas i'm gonna ask nana close for magic robot hands i already got them for you so that makes out to your

Thanks, buddy. Oh, that's so sweet. Yes, yes, one set of robot hands coming to your house right now. Thank you. Okay. That's so nice. Okay, we go to the airlock next. Odo's there, the security team.

They detain them as they exit their ship. Tandro tells Cisco that they have a warrant for Dax, for treason and murder of his father. And I just thought, wait a minute, you've got a warrant? Why did you just go through all of this? All of that. Crazy. Why? You've got a warrant.

Sorry. Crazy stuff. Crazy stuff. Yeah, they should have. Why would they do that? You're right. If he had a at this point in the story, I was like, wait a minute. You've got a warrant?

Why did you just break into the ship and potentially they could have been killed? Right. You know, for this. Like, why would you take that risk? Yeah. My note in this scene is when Odo says, slowly, and he says, extremities where I can see them and I'm like okay extremities all right instead of put your hands where you can do yeah I get that but your extremities are also your feet so then they have to show

their bare feet or I mean I feel it was just you know just say hands why did you have to say extremities where I can see them is that the cumbersome but they're aliens so they're different being sentient beings right so yeah maybe they don't call them hands maybe they're yeah they may not call them hands They may call them magic robot gloves. Put your magic robot gloves where I can see them. Then that makes sense. But extremities means they have to pull out everything. Even, you know, what?

Whoa, whoa. Let's stop with your extremities. That's an extremity. That's an extremity. It is. Okay. Mr. Tandro says he's a special envoy from Claystron 4. Clastron 4.

That's the place we were trying to remember. Claystron. Yes. And now we can forget it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. He says that there's a treaty between Claystrom 4 and the Federation that they have a treaty. And that's when he informs them. He says, the fugitive Dax is charged with treason and murder of my father.

And I love this push-in moment on Dax there. There was a great sort of as this information is landing for everybody else, you see on Dax that she knows something. this means something to her this is she's not protesting she's not saying no no no i didn't do anything um yeah that's all i thought can i just say one word about the the where they're from the way it's spelled is k l a e s t r o n so when you put the a and the e together it's the same as an a with an umlaut on top of it so it's i love that we got umlaut back in this conversation It's coming back into it.

I love that word. Yeah. We've talked about it in lots and other podcasts. It's a German, the two dots above a vowel, right? So then that pronunciation should be Clestron, Clestron for, instead of Clacetron. So Clestron. Yeah, but I'm from Georgia. I'm from Georgia.

You're from Georgia? I'm from Georgia. North Carolina originally. Yeah. You're not from Georgia? Yeah. Yeah, he was raised in Atlanta, Georgia. He was.

Wow, you're a peach. He's a peach, but he's born in North Carolina, North County, Georgia. That's okay. That's just a hop, skip, and a jump. That's what we say. Yes, we do. All right. Well, you guys say Claystron.

I'll say Clestron. Clestron four. So we've ended the arrest scene. Now we're in the security office. Odo's looking over this warrant. He's reading about how Curzon Dax was a Federation mediator on Clay Stront 4. during there was a civil war

there though however you pronounce this place they had a war and Kurson Dax was there and Sisko says that's weird she never

you know Kurson never mentioned that to me and Odo doesn't think that that's strange given the charges so he's basically saying well if Kerson Dax was a murderer

he wouldn't he would have hid that So everything's sort of looking like not good for Dax. No, and you can't wait to throw me under the bus. Yeah. Why does Eto hate you so much? It's like, doesn't trust me. Yeah. But Cisco's memory was like, well, Curzon Dax tended to be a little cavalier about life,

even about his personal responsibilities or experiences. So it doesn't surprise Cisco that he didn't mention all of this. He might have been cavalier about it. And Cisco liked that in him. He liked that. Yeah. that he was down to earth. But he's completely adamant

that he is not a murderer. You see this right now. Cisco is like, there's no way. There's no way. I've known him for so long. That is not possible. Like, that's his honest belief here. Yes.

And Odo at the end, he questions, he says, yes, maybe that's true about Curzon, but did you really know the symbiont inside of him? But when he says simbient, he goes, symbiont. He says, she pronounces it. I've never heard, Terry, do you ever say symbiont? I never have.

I never will. I do not. Well, clearly, clearly. I'm going to say that Odo puts an oomlout over that vowel. So he pronounced it a different way. Another oomlout, symbiont and symbiont. That's how we'd say it in Georgia. We'd say symbiont.

You say symbiont. Yeah, we would. I had a symbiont in my belly. Would you say, hey, what do you? hear me out what do y'all symbionts fixing to do is what that's what you say it in georgia or tennessee right bless your symbiont bless your symbiont bless your symbiont soul you're a peach bless it okay so so odo says simbion really weird and we go to dax's quarter and cisco comes in and says that he's trying to stall these people but he uh she has to tell you

tell him right the truth what is happening it's going on and she won't talk no yeah dax's mum's the word can we just talk about dax's quarters for a second what's going on in there there's there's like a there's a wall of like an open wall with like all kinds of it's really interesting a display shelf or something display shelf but the display shelf is usually against a wall yours kind of bisects your bedroom it's in the middle of the room it's in the middle of the room it's cool isn't it's so different and so cool i know yeah and i have like a whole little lab in there too yeah I liked the fact that Cisco when he comes in and he's begging her to tell, tell what's going on, to tell the truth. Yeah.

And she's not talking that there's that wall, that barrier between them. Yes. It was very metaphor. It was a metaphor for the barrier between the two of them. Yeah. I liked it. Good job. Yeah.

I like that in storytelling when that happens. Yeah. Well, that's the director then putting you in that position. So that's a good job on his part. Yeah. 100%. David. But he ends this scene.

Francisco is really surprised and shocked that he thought they were closer friends than this, that she would talk and she says, I'm sorry. But she doesn't explain. She just says, I'm sorry. You can't. I know. Yeah. You know, you can't.

How many times have you been in the situation? And I have. And you go to say one thing. And it's like, oh, that's a mistake. Because once you start, it's hard to talk around something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, so she couldn't. I kind of wish that Dax grabbed him with both hands. And you kind of like a guy with another guy and shook him and like, no, you're still my friend. You know, because it was sort of very like, I'm going to lightly put my hand on your shoulder a little bit here, you know. And to me, if they were old guys friends, yeah, popped out. Right, because later. You should have punched him. You should have punched him and said, dude.

If you had said like, dude, snap out of it, dude, man. Remember later on? Bros, like a bro. Yeah, because he acts like that later. Cisco almost punches you later, like, oh, if you weren't a woman, like, because they are used to be, they're used to roughhousing each other, I felt. So I felt like you should have like, you know, shook them up, you know, punched him in the arm, like, come on, we're still buddies, kind of a thing in a way. Isn't this curious, though, because I think one of the reasons this episode is happening is we're trying to discover who Dax is, the writers are too. And so there are those missed opportunities we're going to see all through.

about the, I would imagine, the first season, especially, like in any show, right? Art, yes. Because you're not completely flushed out yet. Your characters aren't. They're discovering who you are, right? Yes. So that missed opportunity is just because everyone's got too many things to think about. You're trying to keep up with a seven-day schedule, too.

You're like, yeah. How do you absorb all of the backstory of relationships and all that? Right. Yeah. But overall, this is a great episode because we do learn about the trill. we do learn about the symbiants because we don't know that much about them at least robbie and i don't know that much about them have they been mentioned in tng or is this is ds9 the first time oh there was an episode of tng yeah and it was a romance with um beverly crusher oh my goodness okay all right so there

is a prior mention of it yeah and the trolls before didn't have spots they had a a piece on their forehead like a like a brow and a yeah it was kind of intense and they did it to me and we shot for a few days with it um that my abbreviated version yeah and uh and then they were like they kivosh that very mcclach was like what we no we hired a beautiful woman what are you doing no no yeah don't put the rub it all over right that symbiont that is not the way you you you don't put that big bump on her hair we hire an ex cover girl so we can cover her face in plastic. Exactly.

And when did Carrie McCluggage become a good old boy? I don't know, right? Harry. Mr. Elegant suddenly is, you know, he's from Georgia, too. No. No.

Cluggage. Yeah. No. Great scene with Dax and Cisco. We go to the commander's office. And Tandro's there. That is our evil robot hand guy. I just want to call him robot.

guy. Tandro is there. He wants X. But Cisco says that this station is technically Bajoran. And he kind of gets, you hear it to speak up in there. Yeah. Yeah, I like their scene. Yeah. That was cool. Yeah, because they only have, the, the, the Clestrons only have an extradition clause with the Federation. Correct. And not with Bayjor, so, sorry, you can't take X. And Kira's like, you guys.

have your allies with the Cardassians because you knew so much about this Cardassian ship so she's smart there that's how they knew this whole layout and she says that compromises our Bajoran security so Cisco says if Kira is adamant

that there must be an extradition hearing from this Bajoran ship then then they're going to have to have a hearing before you can take her you have to have the hearing. Yeah and I love how he's like at least I believe she's adamant in terms to Kira. I think she's adamant about this.

Are you adamant? She's like, yes. Yes. Oh, yes. I'm adamant. You know what's the close talking there, Robbie? They were so close to each other at that way. Oh, were they?

Yeah, they were touching. It was like, oh, my gosh. But again, for the camera and for Marvin, you guys had to do that. Classic treks close talking, two shot talking. Yeah. Mint. Give me the mint. But it's rare, though, Robbie, because close talking is usually two people talking to each other.

But they were talking at another party. They were together close tolling at side by side by side by literally their shoulders were touching. Keeping them in the, yeah. In the frame for Marvin, yeah. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after a trip.

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See MintMobile for details. We go to Quarks next. Thoto and Quark are bickering over having the hearing and I wonder if they do that, too, because, Robbie, you would know the answer. Sometimes there isn't time to do individual close-ups and you need to consolidate. Yes. I do remember that. The doceido, not to change the light. So you both, you talk, but you, yeah. Yeah, it's time.

There's definitely time-saving ways. But there's also, I think, a storytelling reason to have Cisco and Kira, two people against one. United. Yeah, they come off stronger. And that's a good thing in the story, too, and moving our plot along of them becoming if she's his number one, then every time that you have an opportunity to show them in solidarity. Yeah. Yes.

Yep. I agree. So now we're in Quarks. And Odo and Quark are arguing over having this hearing in Quarks because he's going to have to shut the place down. And I immediately thought, oh, budget. They didn't want to build a set to have a hearing. in. Oh.

Yeah. So we'll just make it a quarks thing. We'll own it. Yeah. I wish they had built a more formal. It did feel very formal, the hearing part. Right. But being in quarks to me felt casual.

It felt less serious in some way. I liked how it looked beautiful. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. But would a station have a actual courtroom? What a deep space station? No, but they'd have a briefing room or a conference room or something that's a conference room or something that's like all business.

Their rafing room is in ops, remember? It's combined with everything. That's so they didn't have a separate space like that. And you couldn't have it in ops because there are too many operational things happening at the same time. It would interrupt. Yeah. We would convert one part of our set into the captain's quarter sometimes. It would be a reception room other times.

It would be a, you know, like a important meeting room. We would convert things. Yeah, we had that. too. We had that too, but maybe we didn't have it by then. Maybe it was like not in the budget. I think that's probably, I think you're spot on about it. I think it was a budget thing. I think that's also why there weren't that many extras in those shots. Yeah. Yeah, this feels a little bit like a bottle show. Yeah. Kind of early for a bottle show, though, isn't it in the lineup? Well, if you look at how much money they spent in the first few episodes, remember the

Odo stuff. Oh, right. All the, every time that happened, it was like, yeah. I mean,

it was a lot. And I don't remember what it was. But at the time, it was like, wow, that was almost, you know,

like hundreds of thousands of dollars for that, yeah, that quick little tiny five seconds, three second. It was brand new. It was brand new.

Do you remember? That's also in the time when they did the commercials where people's faces were, I don't know if it was a Michael Jackson video. Oh, yeah. It was a Michael Jackson's a music video.

Was it? Yes. And that was brand new, brand spanking new, yeah. You know the other thing that I think of in terms of budget? When you guys started, TNG was still in the air, right? Yeah, that's right. For two years. Yeah.

Every set you had had to be built from scratch. When we started, we retrofitted a lot of the TNG. Their sense. You inherited it. So that was a savings. Our pilot actually got the benefit of reusing some. set so we didn't have to spend the money to literally build and rig a bridge or a it was a facelift it was a facelift right so it went from that team yeah yes the tNG was a very

wood grain kind of light color and then ours became a darker gray and steel and metal and not wood grain you know but there was a savings yeah there was a big savings compared to ds9 which had to start from scratch from nothing right anyway they they otto and quark bicker over this uh quark I'm sorry, Odo starts talking about building code violations. He starts looking around. I love that. Yes. It's so bad.

Yeah, new restrictions. It is. It's like, right. He's blackmailing him. He's blackmailing him. And again, this is stuff that doesn't happen on Voyager. I mean, I don't remember it. And in TNG, I'm guessing it probably doesn't happen.

But here on DS9, blackmail's okay to get what you need. Right? By the security officer. Yeah, by the security. guy. Exactly. Not just some, you know, used car salesman guy or you shuttle salesman person, but by Odo, the head of security, blackmailing Cork. So there we go. Well, we cut to the promenade and Cisco is walking with Odo and Cisco goes, we don't have any place to have this hearing. I don't know where we're going to do it. And Odo informs them that Cork generously

offered his facility for the hearing, which I thought was very funny. It was a funny connection between the end of that previous scene. My note here in this scene is when he walks out of quarks, there's that light that's flashing like crazy right there. There's a strobe there. And nowadays, that's the, you know, at least a Dragon Con, we're always saying no flash photography because there's certain people that will go into an epileptic shock from seeing a flash type of photography. And that constant flashing of that light like that, I don't think there. Yes, it's not good. So that was my note. That back then, people worked.

It's in quarks. No, no, when they walk out, the entrance over the doorway of quarks, there's like maybe 35 sort of, you know, incandescent lights that keep flashing bulbs. It's sort of like, hey, come on over here. It was supposed to be like Vegas or something. Yes, exactly. Right. But I think that was one of the building code violations that Odo was talking about.

There you go. Because Dax was getting migraines. Yeah. Cisco and Odo walk, they talk about quark. offering his facility, and Cisco wants Odo to dig into this Claystron 4 place. He wants him to do some investigating on this place, see if there's some more information. Right. And Odo's like, I think this case is, it's a cold case.

It's done. Like there's nothing I'm going to find out. He doesn't think he's going to find out anything. Yeah, but it's weird because it almost sounds like he's sort of dismissing it. Like Odo's like, no, I'm not going to do this. But yet he still goes and does it. Like Cisco doesn't even order. him. He goes, I thought someone might go do some investigating on Clistron 4. So when he says that,

he's like, someone might, you know, it wasn't even an order. It was sort of like, hey, if you got time, go do it. But if not, maybe not. But I felt like weird. Yeah, it was a little weird. Is it really that casual? It was very casual. Yeah. I just remember thinking, wow, I didn't, Odo just was so not willing to stick up for me. No, that was that surprised me too. You really, You felt that he had it in for you in a way. At this point, in the show, it didn't feel like he was ready to. No, he was on team robot hands. I get it, but how, but how have you offended Odo in the prior episodes?

Like, what did you do? No, I think he just doesn't know me to trust me. Okay. And he does understand that this is also part of the dilemma, right? This is a crisis of who is she? Is she the symbiont in all of those entities? those memories I mean that's the crux of this

are you responsible for that right right or am I the new entity the new humanoid science officer of the station who are you that is you know entrusted with this symbion

so maybe Odo is more like writing that I'm not poo pooing that he should have stuck up for me what I'm saying though is that he's really writing that I need more information yeah he needs the facts he needs the facts it'd be nice if it felt like he he he doesn't feel I don't feel urgency from him about getting the information he doesn't feel invested in in helping decks or saving her he doesn't actually or even sticking up for oh Cisco you know it's not

like he's like yeah I'll do it for Cisco he's not doing that either no he's just wary he is just wary of every single person on the station that's new that's what it is he doesn't know who any of you are yet no he doesn't trust himself why would he trust us right okay he sleeps in a bucket for god's sake i mean come on he didn't even go for that gold one that cork was i know he could have fancy bucket time but no he's got plain old bucket time he's got plain old bucket this is a plain bucket guy okay we go to corks now now the uh the judge has arrived and she is clearly no nonsense from the top of the scene. Tandro explains why she, you know, my DAC should be extradited.

And the judge seems to agree at the top of the scene. And the judge also doesn't the judge say something like, you know, I've got an hour. Let's get this thing over. I got dinner plans. I want to be out of here. I've got to practice my gavel skills. Like, I mean, that was the gavel, round gavel. Doesn't that cool?

Yeah. Yeah. It was like a botchy ball. I want to know, man, if I had seen your show ages ago before you guys wrapped, I would have tried to buy that during the Christie's auction when they auctioned off all this stuff. I would have tried to buy that gavel. That was a good gav thing. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the judge seems at the top of the scene to be no nonsense, a little on Tandro's side already. Did you feel that? You thought I felt that a little bit. All right.

Yeah. But Cisco, you know, speaks up. and he says Dax is a different person, a different host, a totally different person. The judge isn't happy about this argument, but she agrees to have Tandro prove to her that this is the same Dax. He basically, Cisco's argument convinces the judge

to say to Tandra, all right, then you prove to me that this is the same person. Yeah, I also noticed in the scene, did you see Quark sitting on the spiral staircase? No! As we panned as the judge came in, and he's kind of sitting down on and he's grumpy it was just a quick shot but you saw him he's like he's losing money i'm losing money is he by himself or is his uh there's a couple of people up there

there i don't know who was so maybe rome was there too but that's crazy you caught that i didn't see that at all all right yeah he was sitting on the spiral staircase grumpy uh yeah but at the end when the judge says you know convince me that the person named in your warrant is really the person standing in front of me now right and there's some loaded looks between cisco and dax between you and and uh and avery terry at the very end yeah what was that look that he because he looked like he was kind of smiling in a way kind of like happy that he had i've stalled you from your death sentence kind of thing so he was pleased with himself in a way i think but but oh yeah 100 he's doing everything he can yeah but you are just you're but you're not even given anything back to him you're just like nope sorry

I can't give you crap, but that look back was sort of... Can't even tell you, thank you. No, no. No. It was kind of like, I have no control over this because I'm not going to give up Anina, basically, right? That's her name, Anina, I think, E-N-I-N-A, the wife, the widow. Yeah. Because that's already, that's what's basically what's stopping you from saying anything.

Yeah. Curzon dropped his slacks and everything's a mess now. Yes. Yeah. You know what's funny, Robbie. talking about that yet, right? That's not even revealed yet. No, it hasn't happened yet, but we know he's going to drop his doors.

Don't make me jump there, because I'll jump there. And then you start to talk again. And I'm like, wait, where are we in the episode? We don't know that yet. We don't know that yet. We go to Commander Sisko's office. He tells Kira and Bashir to use their database to find medical or legal precedence on the Trills being held responsible.

If Trills have ever been held responsible, previous hosts. He wants to know about it. And so they leave. And then Odo calls, makes a call from the planet. And Odo's starting to get some clues here. It seems the general was killed. And when the general was killed, that led to the end of the Civil War because his troops wanted to avenge his death. And Odo says that Dax and the general seem to be very good friends. Curzon Dax. And the general seemed to be very good friends. And Odo says he's going to go talk to the widow

of this general of Tandro's father. That's basically what that phone calls about from Odo. But he's Odo was skeptical that he'd find anything. He thought it was a cold case. He's starting to find some things they didn't know. And this next scene coming up in the widow's home, I think that is where

all the money went. So they couldn't have it. They couldn't have a hearing they had to have it in quarks because all the money went to, Nina Tandro's She's got a palatial. Yeah, because you can hear the echo and the voice how high the ceilings are.

You're like, wow, this place is massive. It's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we go to no ceiling. No, no. Well, there is no ceiling. But the way they built that set of her home. It looks huge.

It's a palatia estate. Yeah. It really is. So we go to Anina Tandra's home. There's Odo. The widow, Anina. she says she doesn't think that Curzon Dax killed her husband.

She does not believe it. Robbie, is that intro shot? Does it establish Odo as a very small individual in the background to show that the, is this the scene? Or is it later that she, does he come back again? Because there's that one shot where she's in the foreground. Anita's in the foreground. And Odo is tiny. Well, that's because it's a mansion.

I know, but I don't know far away. Yes. I'm not sure if it's here or later. Wasn't he? He was like six feet. He's tall. Yeah, he was six feet. Easy.

Yeah. He looked five three in that established. Yeah, it was a big place. He looked like a hobbit, basically. Two feet tall. But Anina, the widow says only five people knew the route the general was going to take when he was ambushed and killed. And Tandro has been trying to find out who killed his father for a long time. And he's gotten alibis for everyone except for Kurson Dax.

he doesn't have an alibi where was curzon i think we're going to find out where curzon but at this point it sounds like he's guilty it sounds like he's guilty guilty guilty yeah odo is and odo's worried you know this is not helpful information it does point to curzon right and then the widow stops him on his way out and asks about curzon dax and i love this moment for her oh god and then odo says Curzon died two years ago and she's thrown by us. But she holds it in for a second. But then when Odo leaves

that's when she breaks down. She brings her hands up and she's trembling and you can tell, uh-oh, there's something going on here. But wait. This is the same moment when he says about who has a symbion and he said a young woman. And I think

that's also the thing that just it wrecks her. She has to make a different decision. She can't pretend and let the slide now because a young woman's life is at stake. Okay. Right? Do you remember that? Yes, she does. Yes, yes, yes. So you're saying that

there is a shift in her thinking because now she knows that another fellow female is up for charges of murder. She feels like, oh my gosh, I can't know. Well, she knows that... He knows the truth. He knows the truth, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. She knows that

Curzon Dax, the symbiont that was in Curzon Dax is now in this young woman. So there's double reason she wants to save. Save the Curzon she knew. So she has deep grief for a man she was madly in love with and this poor young girl who's young enough to be her daughter or granddaughter almost, I would imagine. We go back to Quarks, aka the hearing room. And there's a trill expert there. Tandro gets this trill expert to admit that he can remember everything.

Trills can remember everything that the previous host did. And this is the same trill that was in the very beginning watching. I didn't connect that. That's interesting. He's under Tandro's payroll, basically. So, yeah. Yes. So he gets him to admit that he remembers everything.

Trills can remember everything the previous host did. And Cisco gets this expert to admit that when the trill and the new host combine, it's an entirely new combination. So it's it's kind of a situation where they're both right. Like Tandro has a point, but so does Cisco. So we're in that confusing part of our hearing here where they're going back and forth. They're both making great points. Yeah. Confusing is a good word. It was confusing. It is. It's a moral dilemma. And like I said earlier, especially if you're in the, and not knowing the truth yet and you really, think there was a murder. We'd never really answer that question because of how it turns out,

but it is there and feels very real in this confusing part. And I also like at the end of the scene where the judge is like, I said this would be an informal hearing. You know, she's not riotous. That's the word she used, riotous hearing. Yeah, she wanted a simple hearing. And now she's taking a two hour recess. She thought she'd be done this a long time ago, off to her. dinner. So she's not happy. She's ticked. Yes. We come back a little later in the hearing after our two-hour break and Bashir's on the witness stand, I guess. It's not really a trial, but it feels like a trial. It does. Yeah. And the judge asked Bashir why they can't just remove as a doctor. Why can't you just remove this trill? Send the trill back for the

warrant. And Bashir says, well, once, yes, yeah. Yeah. yes the trill symbion take that symbion back and send it Bashir says once they're joined that they depend on each other after 90 yeah was it 92 hours after 92 hours of joining then they are inseparable yeah they can't be or else they die so yeah so medically it sounds like from Bashir at first that you know he's kind of on team Cisco here like once they're joined they're a new thing they depend on each other you can't separate them But then Tandro comes in and he presses Bashir to admit that even though they have created this new thing, that it doesn't change the symbionts brainwaves, that brainwaves of each of them are still separate and the symbionate brainwaves can be identified and they're the same brainwaves as before they were joined to a new host.

Which is weird thinking that the symbiont or symbiont has a brain also in the little. There are two brains. Yes. Yes, it's another brain. A whole other brain. Two minutes and one. That's why you were so smart and always came up with stuff on the bridge, like data that they needed or facts, because you had two brains. You had two brains.

I had two. And the one brain had lived seven lifetimes. So imagine. That's not fair. You were much brainier than anybody else. And unbeknownst to most people, one of the reasons why the judge was so mad about this thing taking so long is that she had to miss an appointment. She had an appointment later, I mean, that day that she had to reschedule, she was going to get her monogram on the gavel.

So it was. Oh, I didn't know that. Yes. Wow. I was wondering where you were going with this. Yeah. I was wondering where that story was going. I love the gavel.

It's a monogram on the gavel. You really do. You really do. Well, Cisco, I'm telling you, Cisco calls himself. It's a botchy ball. It's a botchy ball. Well, I'll get you a botchy ball.

Thank you. The magic robot hand. I'll get you a botchy ball for Christmas. You got it. Okay. So Cisco now calls himself to the stand and asks Kira to question him about Kerson, his relationship. You know, who was Kerson? So Cisco describes Kerson as this very honorable mentor. He's not a killer. He goes into stories and details and anecdotes about that. I mean, ultimately, he says that it was Kerson that made him the man that he is today.

Everything that Cisco is about, how Cisco commands, is for. from Kurson. Like, that's his mentor. He just said, this is the guy that taught me everything I know. So it's a huge, you know, this is a very honorable person. Yeah. And this is this moral debate, this philosophical debate. They go back and forth, Tandro and Cisco.

Tandro starts interviewing him. They go back and forth on these kind of philosophical concepts of whether this new host is guilty in any way. And they start going at it. The judge finally says that they're going to take another break. And after the break, Dax must take the stand. Dax has to speak about this. And she hasn't spoken at all.

Right. So it feels like this is an opportunity for her. And Cisco goes over and begs Dax, please defend yourself. Just, you know, defend yourself. He's very disappointed that it doesn't look like Dax is going to spill the beans and tell the truth and tell her side of the story. She's just not going to defend herself. Right.

We go to, we go to Cisco's office now. Odo calls again. He says Kurson called the wife a lot when the general was away. So we saw her reaction. Now Otos found all this, you know, records of phone calls, secret phone calls. Definitely feels like an affair. But Odo's interpretation is, oh, this means even more damning evidence that that Kerson Dax was the killer.

That's how he's interpreting this. Isn't that funny? Because to me, then it doesn't feel that at all to me. No. But whatever. That's how he interpreted it. My issue with this scene is, don't you think that the son would have found those calls, too? Like, I mean, this, didn't he spend his whole life trying to get to this point?

Sort of like, okay, I'm going to talk to the Kardashians, how to avoid, you know, being detected on the station. I'm going to do, he must have did all his homework. Why doesn't he know that those calls? Because he's not Odo. Odo knows how to do this. Odo knows all. Well, how about this, too? I mean, isn't there some point where he says that some documents were unsealed after 30 years?

Oh, yeah. He does talk about that. But that was for, wasn't that for, but again, now that it's unsealed, wouldn't he find that information? It's just a little confusing to me that he didn't, he didn't know that. That does seem like a giant hole. Yeah. That he wouldn't have seen. He would have seen that.

Like, how do you not talk about that in the right? writers run i do like the fact that that maybe maybe robot hands dad is cursor right they talk about that there is a thought that robot has ability was really cursons and so that to me was like whoa okay yeah uh we go back to anina the widow's house um her palatial estate and yes her palatial estate she's talking to otto again and now she's starting to talk about her her dead husband, the general. Yeah. And she starts saying, you know, he wasn't the hero that everybody thought, thinks he is.

Mm-hmm. And it's really frustrating for her that everybody thinks he was such a great man. He wasn't. So you start to see like, there was some issues there. Yeah. But she also says they don't want to know the truth. Yeah. You know, which is maybe that's the reason that Tandro, maybe he saw these phone calls.

But when you don't want to see something, when you don't want to know the truth, you just dismiss it. That's great. You live in your own reality. I've done it. I know you guys have to. Yes, I accept that explanation, Robbie. Perfect. That makes sense.

Yeah, I think she's saying all the people, her son, everybody wants their, they're, you know, tied to this idea that he was a hero that he's, you know, they just don't want to let it go. Their whole nation. And even decades later, people still mourn the general. They still mourn the general now. And he's such a beloved figure that, yeah, you're right. They could have all just ignored the evidence, which is sitting in front of them. They're like, no, no, no. Yeah.

But Odo at the end of the scene basically says it may be time for you to tell people this. Yeah. The truth about who he was because Dax is going on trial. So Odo's, you know, very important here to convince this widow to come testify. But we don't know if she's going to do it or not at the end of the scene. We go to Dax's quarters next. I love this scene, by the way. This is Dax and Cisco.

Cisco thinks he's protecting the widow and asks if Tandro is Dax's son in the scene. Right. This is the rumor here. Yeah. Dax says no, no. you know you have a big imagination or something like that he is not tando is not kurson d' and that's when cisco kind of almost punches but then holds back and this is where he almost punched dax because it was kurson dax that he normally punches in rough houses but he realizes

no i can't punch um i can't punch terry that's not going to happen so uh yeah but they talk but then they talk about it they talk about his temper like you know dax talks about you know he had this temper when he was younger yeah yeah watch that temper watch that temper i always told you that and they talk about their old relationship a little nostalgically this in you know this feels like it could be a goodbye in a way they're they're kind of reminiscing a bit about their relationship because maybe she's going to be arrested and go to you know go to prison or whatever yeah well and also consider he never got to say goodbye to Curzon. Correct.

Passed away, right? So then there's maybe some of that going into it psychologically as well. So he's really having to face that his friend is gone. And that's really tough also for you, when your character says, do you remember that Argosian lieutenant who threw a drink in your face? To be able to pull Avery out of this like, to laugh, it's like, it's tough to go from extreme anger and frustration to laugh. But that's why good friends can do that with each other. Exactly. And that's what was great about that turn.

And so she knows exactly how to deal with him. They have a history. She knows how to push the buttons to change his temper to laughter. So that's a good thing there. It's a nice scene. It's a really nice scene. I love this scene. And at the end, Cisco is begging to, you know,

tell me what I can do. He really wants to help. And Dax's answer is just not. answer is just nothing. Nothing at all. There's nothing you can do. Okay, we're back at Quarks, the judge. How do we describe this judge? She's tough. Well, does she ever say her name? Does she ever say her name? Because there's a name in the script. Her name is Ronora, but does she ever say I'm Judge Rorne? Maybe when she first, I don't even think she calls herself a judge. No, she's like a magistrate, arbiter, whatever. That's right. It's, yeah. Yeah. I just call her the judge.

Yeah, like a mediator. like a high-powered attorney. Yes. There you go. Usually mediators are retired judges. Oh. Oh. That makes sense.

Yeah, I've, I've called her a judge the whole time. Yeah. Jinks. You owe me a Coke. Okay. So tough judge returns. She says she cannot wrap her head around how Dax can be three times her age. Mm-hmm.

So she's 100. Three times her age and the same age as her great granddaughter at the same time. Mm-hmm. She just, that's how she sort of opens. She's like, I just, I can't wrap my head around this. I don't understand. Which I thought was very interesting because I think that's how the audience feels a little bit. Like they've, they've heard both sides of this argument and.

Yeah, I want you to reconcile it for me. Yeah. I want to understand what Dax is about. So much backstory for Jedziah here, though, this one scene is awesome. Yes. Yes. Yes. Cisco talks about how Jadzia was a unique individual before Dax, that Jadzia, as that person,

as human Jadzia before joining with the symbiont, had her own life, basically. Had her own life. And he talks about these degrees. He won scholarships. She competed against other young people tested in countless ways to become the, you know, people want to become a host. This is an honor to become a host. Right.

And Jedziah tests. Ever since she was little. Yes. As a child, Jedzia wanted to be a, have a, be joined with a symbion. And then, and then the distinctions that I guess would you say the degree would be a premier distinction is what they're saying. Instead of saying, I hold a degree in, she has a premier distinction is the way they agree. Yes. Or a doctorate.

Or PhD, yes. Exobiology, zoology, astrology, astrophology. astrophysics, exo-archia, what the hell is exo-archiology? I don't even know what that is, but still, she is one smart cookie if she has four freaking advanced degrees. And that's just Jadzia's brain. And then we've got the Trills brain. She's no one's ever smarter than you.

No. You're smarter than anybody. Everyone combined. Yes. I never realized that. I wish that were true in real life. But we go through all this. And then Tandro has his opportunity to question Dax.

And he's very confident. He comes up and simply says, when you agreed to be a trill, you agreed to accept responsibility for any action taken by the trill, past or future. And Dax agrees. She's just like, yeah, I did. So, oh, Tandro, he's a good lawyer. He is good. He's good. But not good enough to stop the widow.

So, and our widow arrives, Mama comes in. Mama comes in. And she basically admits that Curzon was in her bed when the murder happened. Oh. Hands down. Yep. Slacks were dropped. Slacks were dropped.

Instead of dropping the mic, dropping the slacks like that. Yes, exactly. The widow drops the slacks line. Slack drop. Mike drop. Okay. The judge is. like everybody's in shock

Tandra's in shock he's speechless she even tries to reach out for him and he he is repelled by her nasty looks to mom there that hand

that hand was touching someone else's slacks I know it mom okay go ahead but the judge ends this hearing she tells Tandra you're going to have to

reexamine your your warrant your request and until then this is done yep yikes Wow.

We go to the promenade for our last scene here, and it's the widow and Dax talking. Yeah. That's an interesting concept that the widow is talking to Curzon in a way, or the trill. There's a part of Dax now that is still the man that she was in love with. Yeah. And that's when she touches your face. You know, sort of she's touching Curzon is what she's doing. Right?

Yeah. In the scene, I remember feeling like I was in this masculine place. for her that she was my love and I loved her and that was this almost like we both had this feeling of like are we going to kiss not I mean it wasn't written that we were but there was this feeling of you know he's still in there experiencing it like I was letting him be there yeah you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah sort of allowing him to take over I do feel that if this episode was filmed now in 2003 that there would have been a kiss

a very beautiful kiss I feel like it could have been accepted yeah sweet but back then it's like oh we can't have same sex kisses but just I love you and I will miss you I'll love you forever yeah yeah and there's also in this last scene there's they articulate this promise

that they made to each other that they would not talk crap about the general that they would not reveal who he truly was, that he tried to betray the rebels. Yeah, that he was the band. No, no, no, no, no. He tried it. This is what was confused.

He had to rewind this. He betrayed his own people. His own people is what I mean. And by giving information to the rebels, it was him that did it. He was the trigger. Thank you for clarifying with your language, yes. Yes.

And then as payment for his helping the rebels, they just kill him on top of that is what happened. He was a Benedict Arnold, and his own people never knew that. They didn't know that. But I love the scene how they made a promise to each other, Curzon and the widow, that we're not going to, like, this fantasy they have of the general gives them strength, and we're not going to destroy that. So it's better let it be.

Let it be, yeah. I like the last line, the very last line from Enina. Live, Jinzea, Dax, live a long, fresh and wonderful life. Which I was like, that still gives me goosebumps. It does. It gave me goosebumps in the moment doing the scene, but you're saying it even just gives me goosebumps. What a great thing for all of us to think of our lives this way. Yes.

But it also reminded me of the Vulcan saying, which is Vulcan say live long and prosper. But she says live a long and fresh and wonderful life. I thought you, you, Terry, could come up with a different hand gesture, maybe this or something. And then you would say, live a long, fresh and wonderful life. Like that's your Vulcan saying, but from the trill saying. It's the trill saying. We'll do a t-shirt, you and me. We'll do a t-shirt.

We have to have a t-shirt. We're going to have a Jedziah Dax t-shirt that says live a long, fresh, and wonderful life with some type of hand signal that you're going to do, whatever it is. You know what? Look at us. You just love it. Just adding to the lore of Trek. This is wonderful. There you go.

There you go. I love you guys. You've got all this great stuff. What a great episode. Dax, there you go. I will say this also, Terry, in my time at conventions, and Robbie will probably back me up on this, I've, you know, I've met fans.

They're like, yeah, we named our dog, Neelix. Or I have two cats, Tom and Harry. Like, we get, we get, our characters get named pets all the time. But I've come across multiple fans where they name their daughter, Jedzia. So the only name that seems to go to human beings is your character's name. but then we get pets. I'm a gerbil and Keira. I get a lot of Kira and Jedziah.

And Esreys. But you know what? Those three names are so pretty. They are pretty. They are. But I'm jealous because for Robbie and I, we're hamsters, gerbils, cats. I'm mostly dogs. I'm mostly pets too.

But you know what? You are pets too? Yeah. But you know what? I love my wily. I mean, I have loved every animal I've ever had. Like it's a different relationship. It's I don't feel like an.

ownership to my animal. I feel like a custodian to giving them a really good life as best I can, which makes me feel so bad whenever I have to leave. He's not in a place where I don't feel he's good. But yeah, I think that's a people who feel that way about their animals. You can see if you look at it that way, what an honor. They're naming their, they're naming their furry kids, your names. Right. Okay. Because they love you guys and they love you guys. And they love They're furries. Thank you for spinning it that way. That's better for me.

Well, furries are just people with a furry suit on, right? They're a trillers in a way. I was like a trill. Yes. I was more complimenting you as opposed, and your character as opposed to,

or critiquing, you know, ours. So there you go. Well, what is our themes and morals for the episode? Why don't you get, Why don't you give it?

Give you. You want me to start with my themes and morals? Yeah. And then Terry and then I'll round it out. I have two themes and morals. I couldn't decide. Two lessons. Okay.

Yes. One lesson is if a person truly changes inside, should it affect the judgment of them later? Meaning like, you know, if they make, if they truly fundamentally make a change in their life, someone's made some mistakes in the past. But if they're, you know, they've made amends, they've really changed who they are, should they be judged for those past mistakes later that's one lesson okay all right the other lesson was about loyalty it's a lesson on loyalty and i don't know what the answer to it is but it's complicated i think that's the lesson loyalty can be very complicated and it's very personal like for dax she had

loyalty to the oath that she made to the widow and she was not she was not telling even cisco what happened. She's like, nope, I can't break my promise. Yeah, that's my two. It's okay. Judge for our past mistakes or about loyalty and how it's very personal. Terry, what is your underlying lesson here for this episode? I think this is a really tough one too. I think I really admire Jadzia's loyalty. I think it's tough in the real world because there are especially relationships and kids and there are times to protect somebody you need to cross that line to protect them or yourself and so yeah I think it's deeply personal and it's really tough I think this shows how tough it is and playing the character that had to hold it in I just kept holding on to that

he loved her so completely so completely and and their mission for those people their people her people was unequivocally the most important thing the whole nation was being protected by this secret you know so it was so much bigger than one person it's sort of the and you're realizing too this is a military person jadzia Federation, a military person. I am going down. I'm taking it to my grave. That's where it's going. As for past mistakes, I love what you said about that too, because just being human and I think at this point in my life going through a big transformation, and I think you always do, but this, in particular, this time of life, the late 50s, early 60s, I think is a really important pivotal time for.

forgiving, at least for me, forgiving myself for past mistakes for not always handling friendships right. And to forgive yourself and move forward and love yourself, I think is one of the most difficult things ever to do. But it feels like the people that you really love, the more you forgive yourself, the more you look at other people and think, I forgive you. Yeah. Of course I forgive you. Yeah. I did shit too.

Yeah. And it's all a lot of us feeling insecure and unloved and all of that unfortunate stuff we carry around as humans. But I love that they showed that in this episode. So my lesson from this entire episode, I'm going to give you the acronym K-Y-S-O. K-Y-S-O. When in doubt, keep your slaps. on. Great.

That's my lesson. It's simple as that. Especially when in doubt, what I mean when in doubt, I'm talking about dealing with married individuals. Keep your slacks on. Okay? That would have prevented everything.

If it never, if that didn't happen. That's all. All right. Just doesn't seem like the hardest part of that union being married. It wasn't hard. Yeah. Just.

Keep your slacks on. There's just so many issues that like that one should just be off the table. Like, that's easy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm keeping my pants on. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in to this episode of the Delta Flyers as we journey through the wormhole.

Join us next week when we will tackle the episode, The Passenger. And for all of you who are Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit of more Terry. Terry will be with us for that too. So thank you so much. We'll see you next week. I don't know.