The Delta Flyers - Deadlock

Episode Date: January 11, 2021

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Deadlock. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.Deadlock:While attempting to evade pursuing Vidiian warships, Voyager enters a plasma field with disastrous consequences for the ship and crew.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca Jayne, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Ann Marie Segal, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Michelle Zamanian, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Megan Hurwitt, James Zugg, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Holly Smith, Jesse Noriega, Dominic Burgess, Amber Eason, and Lucas ShuckAnd our Producers:Chris Tribuzio, Jim Guckin, Steph Dawe Holland, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Eleanor Lamb, Thomas Melfi, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Father Andrew Kinstetter, Ann Harding, Gregory Kinstetter, Laura Swanson, Luz R, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Katie Johnson, Craig Sweaton, Ryan Hammond, Nathanial Moon, Warren Stine, York Lee, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Crystal Komenda, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Dat Cao, Robert Deveau, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Oliver Campbell, Robert Hess, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Daniel Owen, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Ming Xie, Mark G Hamilton, and Heather Chappelle Thank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, everyone, welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry. As we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager, your two hosts along this podcast journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Hello. Wow, that was very dramatic today. that's very like wow you were giving it that extra professional polish i think i did yeah okay given a little extra for the new year i juzed it up yeah you did you totally jizzed i gave a little jes jes jes yeah how are you i'm okay how are you i'm good yeah all right so

this week our episode is deadlock deadlock i know the title we had a lot of d titles red knot um d d d d d i don't know i feel like we had a lot of d titles i feel like out of all the letters yes all the letters in the alphabet we had more d titles

than any other letter i'm going to call d the winner are you saying that d is sort of like the favorite child when it comes to writers of titles for voyager i'm gonna i'm gonna just off the cuff say yes i'm going to put that out there to the fans let's see if d is actually the winner of the most titles that start with a D. Well, now you've put, yeah, we'll see.

You've put the homework assignment out there. Now someone's going to do it. You know someone's going to go through it just tally. I want to know which letter wins. Winners and losers are part of our games we play here. So, uh, all right. Let's see what letter is the winner? Which letter is the preferred beginning letter of all.

Curious. I'm going to go with D. You're going to do. I'm going to say I'm going to go with M. Really? Yes. Wow. Okay. All right.

I chose that because maneuverers. I'm trying to think of some McNeil. That's not a title. Are you sure? No, not a title. Okay. Maneuvers is one, right? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. You're saying D. We'll see.

Yeah, it could be. No, I'm going to give you one more letter. D and what else? Give one more. Give one more. I just, I want D. You only want D? I'm a hard D on this one. Wow. Okay, because I was going to say M and P. You can have two if you want.

I'll take two. Okay, M and P. Okay. All right. So, hey, let's go watch this episode. Let's go watch it. I'm excited. We're going to watch it, but we'll come back and we'll let you guys know what we think.

We'll see you soon. See you soon. Whoa. You're back? Whoa, whoa. Yes. That was an action-packed. I really, I have to admit, this may be one of my favorite episodes we've watched, we've watched so far.

I'm going to, yeah, I told you. It's a really great episode of sci-fi. It's emotionally moving. Yeah. I thought it was really, really good all around. The biggest. Yeah. kind of stuff we've done on the ship ever so far.

Yeah. Collapsing and fire blowing and, yeah, it was cool. It was really exciting. It was fun. Yeah. And you remember from at the end of last episode, I said, and next week we'll be reviewing one of my favorite episodes, Deadlock. That's right.

Oh, really. I know, really. Deadlock. Okay. Now you know why. There you go. All right. So I'm going to start by saying that it,

In our, you know, as we do with everything, we always do our little synopsis in the beginning. Yes. And when I was talking to Megan about, okay, I've got to do my haiku, she came up with one for me. I have my own one, but then she has one too. Okay. And I must, yes, I must preface it by saying that it plays on the fact that there's that joke about how you talk about the pad, P-A-D-D. Pad-D-D-D-D-A-D. So, all right.

And by the way, I think that is the stupid. stupidest joke of any of our cast that I ever made that because there's two D's at the end of personal something to display device or something yeah yeah you gave it an extra two yeah I used to always I would always with this totally straight face go oh yeah hand me the pad did did and people just found it charming and funny and it became a thing that I always did but it's not funny it's the stupidest dad joke the pad did do Anyway, but it's important for Megan's, you know, Megan's haiku that she wrote for me. Okay, and it goes like this.

Yes. Okay. Ready. Ready? Here we go. Remember, haiku, five syllables, seven syllables, five syllables. So I died did, did, do. And no one, hold on, and no one care.

Did, do, da, sob, bu, blah, blah, blah. Wow. I know. Wow. That's a good IQ. It is. It is. Yeah. And that, that like out does my pad. Like, wow, that totally beats Pad. Well, the initial one was I died da-da-da, and no one cared to-da. And then she said, cry, z-z-z-z. And I said, well, what about, let's find something other than cries. Like, crying, gaga, or cried, da-da. And then she said, how about, sobba-b-b-b-b-ba-ba we just got a cute it's very fun yeah because you're sobbing so it works well okay no here's the real one here's the okay where's your haiku let me prepare okay I'm ready I'm ready ship splits into two the deans attack one ship Harry saves baby wow yeah nice short and sweet all right I love the haiku I love the haiku I love the I'm actually starting to write some haikus as a daily fun practice. I journal every day.

Yeah. Pretty much every day. So I've added a little haiku not about Star Trek. I'm just starting to do my own haikus. And it's really fun. Actually, I'm going to digress into haiku for a minute. R.M., the band and Michael Stipe, the lead singer, is one of my favorite bands, one of my favorite singers in the world.

And back in 97, I think, I found out that Michael Steyer, and six of his friends, Tom Gilroy, a playwright and filmmaker, and a number of other people, they made a pact to write each other haikus every day for a year. And so they all seven of these friends did that for a year. They wrote each other haikus, and they ended up at the end of the year with this collection of amazing haikus that sort of captured where they were in the world at that moment in time, and they ended up publishing a book 10 years later with all these haikus that I just got a copy of for Christmas. Rebecca got me a copy and I am just loving it. I love reading it and that whole story that they

did the haiku. So yes, this this Voyager haiku synopsis has sort of, you know, catapulted me into the world of haiku lately. So thank you for that. It's been a lot of fun. Yeah, well, haiku. Hiku is really, I mean, the traditional format is five syllable, seven syllable, five syllable. But when you actually posted an Instagram post from the book that you, the REM Haiku book, Haiku can also take other forms where it doesn't have to adhere to 575. It could be 335. It could be 344. So really it's just simplifying the message, right? Just boiling it down to the essence. And since you are now doing that in your journal, maybe we're going to start a trend to the point where this is how we actually communicate with each other. We'll just start speaking in

haiku to each other on regular basis. I would love that. Some simplicity and poetry in life would be great. Okay. Here's my limerick. Here's my limerick synopsis. The classic Irish limerick synopsis for Voyagers this episode. Here we go. And by the way, yes, Rebecca did help me with this. I would say. What percentage? Yeah, I'm going to, I was about to say 50-50, but no. This is like 80. No. 80-20 in her favor.

80-20, Rebecca? Yeah, on this one. All right, well, Robbie, go ahead and drop it like it's hot. Let's hear it. Here we go. Plasma split the Voyager in two. Far away into space, Harry flew. One baby survived.

Self-destruct, both Janeways surmised. Not a second to spare. Harry lives anew. Wow. I want you to give Rebecca two pats on the back for that. Two pats. Yes, it's a two pats limerick. Plasma split the Voyager in two.

That's great. I really like that one. That's really, really good. Yeah, you get to do limericks in season three. I know, I know. I'm really regretting. I'm regretting even bringing this up. I did it as a buddy thing.

I thought, you know what, I'll let me help you out. I know you're stressed about it. But I don't know. Maybe I might defer, maybe I will actually have to, as I'm coming up with the Limerick, I may also have to message Rebecca for help.

You may. Megan, Rebecca, anybody, anybody. Call Michael Stipe from R.M. I don't know, whoever you want. It's a team effort, the Limerick. It's a complicated little thing. It's true. All right.

Okay. Let's just start out by writer and director. written by Brandon Braga, directed by Mr. David Livingston. Very well directed by David Livingston. I have to say this episode was really well directed, particularly with the two characters, the two Kesses, the two Janeways, the two castes, entirely different ships. It took a lot of planning and a lot of very detailed thoughts.

This could have been a disaster. This could have been a disaster. It could have been muddy and it could have been confusing. But the pacing on it was amazing. It truly was. It just kept you on the edge of the seat the entire time. You're like, what's going to happen? What's going to happen?

So a job to David Livingston and good job. David Livingston and Brandon Braga, a great, yeah, great, great episode. Yep. All right. So we start in, we're on the bridge. Actually, is that the very first scene in the bridge? No, we're in the mess hall. The very first scene.

Sorry. We're in the mess hall. And, you know, Wildman is in there and Neelick says, hey, one of my burners has gone out. There's been some sort of power problem. Could you help take a look at this? And so they're kind of chatting.

And then she goes into labor in the mess hall. And then we see her beginning her labor. And there's the doctor. We're in the sick bay. And then we go to the bridge. And I love how Paris seems very, upset. He's like, very agitated. And he's like, you know, it's been over seven hours. How long does it take to have a baby? He sounds very, very invested. And then we realized the whole

crew was invested in Wildman's baby because this is the first baby born on the ship. And so that was a fun moment. Yeah. For all of us up on the on the bridge that everybody's really invested in this. It was. And just to go back to the mess hall, you did miss the, you did miss the little bit about them saying that Harry was supposed to come and help out with that diagnostic or whatever. But he wasn't, you know, but he was late. This was hours ago and he hasn't come down yet. So this is, you know, maybe some reference to Harry Kim being so overworked that he doesn't have time to do everything. He's got to relax. He knew. Okay, so back on the bridge. Paris, Paris's hair looks extra swirly today. It did. Yeah.

I agree with you. It looks sort of poofed up some hair spray going on. Well, hair, as we know on Voyager, hair tells a lot of the story for us. Like I made a note later on as the ship starts having all of its problems. We know things are serious because Janeway, the bun is starting to fall apart and her hair is a little wild. And that's how you know that things are getting bad. if Janeway's hair is askew. So yeah, yeah. Hair is

a hair, swirly hair tells the story. Yes, it does. This could have been, instead of Star Trek Voyager, this could have been Star Trek Hairager, you know, or just hair, Star Trek hair, colon hair. Yes. Star Trek colon, quaff. How the, how we can put a little Frenchness into it. Colan quaff, quaff. Okay. yeah lots of hair okay i did like that chukote says you know as my father used to always say

home is wherever you happen to be i was waiting for like choket you know when chukotay always has these moments of like well my people have a saying yes and then he comes out with you know a kuchy moya or some you know something deep and wise and he's like my father used to always say yeah home is wherever you have you happen to be. I was like, what? That's it. Yeah. Okay. Home is wherever you happen to be. Shall we begin to refer to those as Chakotayisms? Yes, I think so. I love when he's. Yeah, he's always quoting people. There's somebody, people of my people, my people have a saying, my father always said he's a quota. That's a big part of your thing. Now, Paris, it's you. It's your

decision. It's your suggestion that we must enter a large plasma drift in order to block Voyager from the censors of the Vidaeans. I wrote Smarty. You're, you came up with that one. Or maybe not. Maybe he's not smart. Maybe he didn't

go in that plasma drift. We wouldn't be in the situation to begin with, right? Sorry. Sorry. So basically Paris killed Harry. That's what you're saying. I get where you're going with it. I'm feeling that a little bit. But you not only killed him, but then you really, it resulted in him being saved as well, right, in the long run.

And now here's, here's my question to you. Which Voyager was the original Voyager? Because they don't, I don't think they make any mention to it. You don't really know which one is. Am I right or am I totally off the back? I think they're both real. It's funny because Rebecca and I got into this conversation because part of my limerick was going to be which Voyager is true. But she was like, they're both true.

They're both the real Voyager. There's not one that's real and one that's not. They are both split into two. They're just slightly out of phase, but it was doubled. There is not a reel and a copy. There are two reels. I felt that the field that they went through, what do they call that, a divergence feel?

I can't remember exactly what they said. but the feel that they went through that caused Voyager to duplicate itself. That's what I felt. Like you're saying that it just split immediately that there is no original and then a duplicate. It's just two originals now. That's what I think. Yeah. I think that I think as an audience member and as a crew member on one or the other,

you would have to ask the question, well, am I the real thing or am I the copy? but I think from a distance you look at it and there's no there's not one that is more real than the other in a weird way I would almost say that if you had to pick one because they were both the reason they were that one was collapsing and the other wasn't is because they were both trying to draw energy off of the same engine basically right they were the antimatter did not did not duplicate right only the matter duplicated the anti-matter so the the engine itself the energy within the engine didn't duplicate so I mean if you had to say one is true and one is a copy or one is real one's a copy the one that had the engine that was working would seem since it was working before to be

the right one okay and the copy the copy is the one that can't pull the antimatter because the anti-letter didn't. Yeah, the one that's breaking down, the one that was in disarray. If you had to say one is a copy. Yes. You would have to say that that's the copy. Right. So if you're looking at it that way, then Kim and Baby Wildman are the only two real ones left. Everyone else is a copy. If you, okay. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that if you had to pick, if you're forced to take that position, then yeah, then I think that's true. and Baby Wildman are the only two originals. Everyone else was the duplicate.

I think they were both real. I think they were both. Okay. Yeah. I've struggled with this for many years because at the various conventions I've attended worldwide, I've often experienced interactions with fans worldwide

that say the same thing. How's it feel being the duplicate? How's it feel being the copy? Like they keep saying that I, you know, But you're not, I don't think you're the, I don't think Harry is the copy. I think he's, he's just as original as the other, as the other one, as the other crew. But if you had to make an argument, I actually think he's the original. Everybody else is the copy.

Yeah. Well, because of the antimatter. If you, if you just take, who got the antimatter? The anti-matter. Who had the anti-matter. Didn't duplicate. Right. So.

That's true. That's true. So I, yeah, it's been, it's been, I've been the brunt of many jokes. People say, well, that's the reason why you were never promoted because you were the duplicated. You're not the real one. You're the real one gets promoted and he's dead.

But now, I guess we've come to the decision or the understanding that. The Delta Flyers position is, if we have to pick duplicates or originals, Harry's the only original. Harry's the only original with the baby. That's the Delta Flyers official position as an organization.

I will state that. unequivocally. By the way, you release that in a memo to the rest of the Delta Flyers team, please? The Delta, yes. The whole team will be getting the memo, emails will be sent, copies, legal briefs, all of it.

Yeah, CC it. There was another thing. They say, Videan ships on the sensors before we go into the Plasma Drift. They said something like over 20 of them, over 20 ships. Well, where were the 20 ships later on?

There was just one big, giant ship. like I don't know well I think when I saw the Videans I'm like where's the army of all those ships we talked about yes but the one thing

that you didn't incorporate into your argument here is that they also incensors detected planets that were basically occupied or yeah they were Videan planets in the Videan system

so therefore those ships just could have been ships just kind of cruising around you see what I'm saying like they weren't like in they weren't in the middle of space on a mission right right so they could have just oh there's 20 ships in this direction and that's where I yeah that's how I validate all right all right so don't be don't be don't you know don't lose any sleep over please I'm not going to let it bug me I'm not going to love all right good um all right so wildman's and labor the baby shifts around in the exocranial ridges lodge into the uterine

wall. Ouch. I almost turned the thing off at that point. I can't stop talking about the exocranial ridges in the uterus. It sounds like painful. And then they go, oh, let's do a fetal transport. And I'm like, actually, Rebecca was like, wait a minute, what? Why didn't they just do a fetal transport from the beginning? Begin with.

And save her all of that pain. Even if the exocranial ridges don't get lodged, why wouldn't you just automatically do the fetal transport, like do it in the first place. Anyway, well, yeah, but then again, I think Samantha Wildman knew what she signed up for. The minute you start a relationship with the Catarian, you're going to, and you have a exocranial ridge that's going to dig into your, yeah, exactly. So these are issues. I don't want to think about it. That she already knew about. I don't even have a uterus. I don't have a uterus. I'm not even sure. But if you were to have one. I think you are, yeah, but if you had one, you'd be shuddering right now.

I would. I am shuddering and I don't even know what it is, but I know it's a lady parts and things get, ridges getting jammed in there. No thank you. Yeah. By the way, I hate it when they, so the baby comes out or they do the fetal transport or whatever. And then we see a baby with the makeup on the prosthetics. And I hate it when we did that because we actually did that. Like we put prosthetics on you know six week old babies or four week whatever we got very very young babies and i don't know i always felt bad i just i would get so uncomfortable we put whenever we had baby things and they put the the prosthetics aesthetics on and a lot of times they would add like this this mixture of like cottage cheese and and um putting or something to

be like birth fluids and and I just felt so bad for these poor little babies they didn't know they didn't sign up for the they don't want to be no they're like four no do you think that actually scars these infants for lives of course it does of course it does in a way and they're going to hate star trek for the rest of their lives because of it or at least you know when they're adult if someone you know they get into a relationship and their significant other says I've got cottage cheese I want to put on your body they're going to like ah that'll be a big trigger see what I'm saying so maybe that's where you know

if someone wanted to put cottage cheese on my body I wouldn't like it and I wasn't even in a sci-fi show as an infant I just wouldn't like it so we're back on the bridge and I love I forget what happened but I wrote this note down Paris goes what the hell and I love when Paris gets to curse. What the hell?

We never get to curse on the show. Yeah. What were you saying that to? I don't remember. I think I can't remember. Oh. Well, my next note is back in the sick bay and the doctor is treating Nelix.

The lighting makes his uniform look like as deep forest green is my note. Instead of that teal, it looks like a really dark forest green. I don't know. Yes. I did notice that something about Neelix looked a little different. I have to say when we were in sick bay and the first injured crewmen start coming in,

everything seemed fine and then, you know, basically fine. There was nobody. And then all of a sudden the door opens and like 25 crewmen come in with like carrying their friends. And the first thing I thought was, wow, all the injured people seemed to walk very closely together because they're all just gathered outside of the door waiting for the first injured guy to go in. They all, like, and then they came through and then there were no more injured people.

It's like, wait, do they just huddle up and like walk down the hall, you know, as a group? Like, where all the injured people? Come on, let's... They were standing there and right outside of sick bay. It says, sick bay hours, and it said the times, and it wasn't that time for opening yet. And they were lined up. They were all in a queue, and they were like, oh, my God.

Oh, it's time. it's open now let's go and they all that's what it seemed like it seemed like the store just opened it was kind of yeah I thought wow and and I normally think of this but I was like yeah maybe they should stagger these guys out a bit like the first one comes in and maybe the door stays open and then a couple more come in and then while they're talking more people but it was it was more like 25 people just kind of like minions yeah they all came in anyway yeah it was like they were at a concert And they gang rush the front, you know, the front standing room only area. Yeah.

So lots of wounded and they, they like to walk together in groups. Instead of the walking dead, the walking wounded is what it was, right? So, all right. Okay. Good observation. They also say damage on deck 15, section 29 alpha. Structural integrity is failing. Yeah.

Did they, did the writers track these decks like the logic? because I feel like we talk about deck 15 a lot in this series like not just this episode that's a good question I feel like we've talked about like whenever often when there's problems deck 15 has really bad luck it comes up a lot I put this out to the fans another homework assignment please let me know how many times there's trouble on deck 15 because I feel like it's almost always like if after a while I'd be like I'm not going to deck 15 because nothing good happens on deck 15 particularly section 29 alpha i cannot wait yeah i can't wait till we have a writer on the show they're just going to think that it's the spanish inquisition all

we're going to do is sit there ask them questions and what about deck tracking do you guys track the decks because 15 seems like the most dangerous of all decks and we're just going to sit here and just ask them a billion questions because these are only questions that they can answer so we should probably make a note of that what is up with the decks um where are you in your notes are you are you are you yet to my death scene yet no no not quite yet i mean okay wildman's baby is dying i'm there and i just couldn't believe that that was happening and i couldn't believe that it that the baby died like that to me i was like because i didn't remember this episode so when the baby died i didn't remember oh wow that another baby was i didn't remember i was i was uh really caught up in this episode

in every way the story had me the direction had me i remember i think i skipped something but in this in engineering at one point Torres is confused as to what's happening and the camera went around her in a 360 and we didn't do that often on our no trick we didn't do 360s because for the audience a 360 is when the camera goes 360 degrees around in a circle around an actor or around some some staging we didn't do it often on Star Trek it's not done often on a lot of shows because it's hard to do you've got to clear out all of your equipment in every direction you see in every direction you have to light every direction so it becomes a big job to do a shot like that and I was really impressed that it communicated Torres's confusion and chaos in engineering in that earlier scene in a beautiful

a way. Just one of many examples of David Livingston doing some really special and really smart directing and staging. Yeah, because that 360 had purpose. You know what I'm saying? Because there are times that I'll watch a film or a TV project and the director will throw a 360 in there and I'll sit there and think, huh, they only did it because in film school they thought this was the coolest thing to do and they threw it into their

product and has no reason to be there. And it doesn't further the story. It doesn't really help the view or understand anything. And I just, I look at that and I, I scoff at it. I'm like, amateur, you know. This one, one meant something. Tora's, it meant something. It really, it did. It communicated the dramatic, you know, emotional life of, of Tora's in that moment. Yeah. It captured what she was feeling, which is everything spinning out of control. So, exactly. I thought it was great. Now, we're up to Harry's death scene. Yes. We're here.

So climbing into, one thing I did notice too is those Jeffrey's tubes, you know, the ones that go up and down. So you were in some hallways, which we had sets, we had sets that went around to sort of an opening where there were ladders going up and down. But it really didn't go down because we were on the stage floor. There was nowhere to go down. So you could only go up from our hallway set. And then there was another Jeffrey's tube junction up above where you could go different directions in theory.

But it was basically just a small little tree house up above. And what I loved in the way that they shot it was you're going down a hall and then you got to that junction and you climb down. Well, you had actually gone down from that elevated set. So it was another smart, you know, Livingston putting together a puzzle that felt three-dimensional and made the ship feel very. authentic in a way that really when when we're there filming and you know that these sets are much smaller and much more limited than uh than it felt i thought he did a great job yeah um yeah but torres says we've got to leave and harry is trying so hard to save everybody and he goes just one more minute just wait one second so he sacrifices himself he he wants to save the ship and he sacrifices himself and there's a

whole breach and he sucked into space and I was like what the what what the what I was kind of like what the what but it wasn't really what the what it was something else but it was a lot of what you're sucked into no what did you say what did you really say I really was like oh my God I didn't remember that and by the way the effect looked really good did they put you on wires or something or how they do it yeah yeah I had wires so um So basically they, you have these two, they're very thin wires, basically, right? And they kind of attach to, there's like a heart, there's a belt, a harness or whatever that is underneath my Starfleet uniform. And then they cut a little hole on each side for the, the actual, I guess it's sort of like a metal, yeah, it's like a metal, yeah, it's like a metal, little loop thing on each side that you attach each thin metal wire.

or two and that suspends you basically so yeah so then and so just so people know we had many many starfleet uniforms it wasn't like Robbie had one and that's all I mean we had ones they could cut into like the one they used for this this particular stunt if you want to call it a stunt they have one they have certain uniforms that have been torn because of maybe a battle scene or whatever being shot by a phaser or whatever so um so this particular scene, yes, I had wires when I got sucked into space. It looked great. I thought the effect looked really good. It was very

well done. We shot it multiple times. Like there was one where we shot it where I did a bunch of flips backwards. Oh, really? They were like, yeah, they didn't like that one. They were like, we want to, we don't like him flipping multiple times. We wanted more, just more stationary and just being sucked down. I like, yeah, you kind of

got sucked away. I was like, a little sideways and just a little bit. It was sad or it was, it felt more real. It was sad. And now I'm going to say one great thing about doing this rewatch is that for many years at convention appearances on stage, I've been telling different stories. And I talk about this death scene a lot. And I don't remember things as clear as I thought I did because I always talk about right after this happened that Balana hits her com badge. And she says, you know, she goes, you know, Balana to Jane Way. and Janeway says, go ahead. And then Bologna says, and this is what I say at the conventions,

Harry's dead. And then cut back to Janeway and Janeway goes, hmm, what about deck eight? And that's what I say at conventions. Like she goes literally from hearing the news of my death to ask about, is there damage on deck eight? But in reality, if you watch this episode, she says, Bologna goes, Ensign Kim is dead and Kess has disappeared. And then Janeway goes, disappeared, like she didn't give a crap about that fact that I died. And I'm like, what?

Oh, you're right. I didn't think about that. So this is kind of for me, yes, it's the second time that Harry Kim dies. Harry dies in emanations in season one in order to get back to To Bejure. And in this episode, he dies. But I also call it the my Rodney Dangerfield episode, my no respect episode. Because, come on. I mean, if you, if you, if you, if, Literally, after Wilana says to Janeway that Harry Kim is dead, there has to be a little bit more reaction on her. Instead of, she literally just, she had a, she gave a look, and then she heard that Kess disappeared, and she's like, disappeared, where?

Disappeared? I mean, all she cared about was the disappearance of Kest, and it wasn't anything about, and then let's flash forward to the bridge when Tuvok is sitting there, and he's giving the whole 4-1-1 on what's going on. He's like, the decks are doing this. we have this many casualties and this and this and this is a crazy list. And then he says, he goes, I must also regretfully report. And it pauses and I'm waiting for him to say something about me.

And he goes, no, that Ensign Wildman's baby did not survive. And I'm like, what? You don't even list Kim in that damage report, you bastard. How dare you? But she already knew that. That was old news. That happened out. That was old news.

No, he was doing a recap. So the recap must include my death as well. It was a recap. You're right. It was a recap. Yeah. Did he mention Kess disappearing in his recap? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't know if it was a recap. You're making me feel a little bit better about it then. I don't think it was a total recap. It was like new stuff that she wasn't aware of. Yeah. That's why it wasn't in there.

I just felt like the, you know, the other instant Kim at the end should have came on the ship and slapped both Tuvok and Janeway. Like that. That's for not caring about me. so anyway that's but i now know that she said ensign kim is dead and kess has disappeared instead of harry's dead i thought she said harry's dead she never says that she says ensign kim is dead and kess disappeared so yeah i can now correct my story okay this is good that we're doing this it's very very um yeah so i this is where i had a note on the bridge you know things must be bad because jane janeway's hair is a mess wanted to remind everybody that uh Thank you.

Also, Paris seems particularly concerned about Janeway here. I felt a little bit of like, oh, Paris is trying to show a little sensitivity for Janeway's situation. He was very... Really? Yeah, I felt like... In what way? She's showing some feelings for her. You know, I think if things had gone differently, maybe Janeway and Paris could have, you know, connected.

I mean, he really seemed to have a connection to her in that scene. and he was concerned. Older lady, younger man, relationship. Oh. I just felt it. It was a little bit of, he was really worried about her, not just professionally,

but personally. You could tell, I forget the lines, but I remember making that note. Yeah, Tuvok, this is where Tuvok lists all the damage somewhere after this, and it's so bad.

And then when the bridge starts to collapse, and the strut falls, and there's fire in front of the camera, I mean, I made a note. I'm like, this is the biggest, like, destruction we have ever seen on the ship at this point. Up until this point, yes. Up until this point, we had never, never, and I was trying to remember, I do remember the rig. Oh, no, wait, Robbie.

No, in the pilot, the pilot, when we get thrown into Delta Quadrant, there's destruction there, too. But not like that. We didn't see giant set pieces falling down. We didn't see fire that I recall. I don't think so. I think this feels the most dramatic kind of destruction on the ship that I've ever seen. The lights are going crazy and the fire and flames and there's smoke everywhere. I thought it was cool.

I thought it was really well. Yeah. As they evacuate because things are falling apart, they're heading to engineering. Janeway sees a, she looks back. She sees a ghost crew on the bridge. And they're just, the ghost crew is kind of walking around calmly and like nothing's going on. and then she heads to the turbo lift and then we jump to the the other ship let's call it voyager 2 for lack of a better term we jump over to voyager 2 and a very a perfectly fine bridge calm bridge

jane way looks back and she sees the ghost of herself walking how i don't understand how they saw each other in that moment is it explained or is it was it just a like nobody said oh there was a flux variance in the thing for one moment and that allowed us to see each other. I don't recall that. It was just like, no. Oh, she just happens to at this moment see the other bridge crew. Like, why didn't that continue to happen, I guess is my point. Why couldn't see each other more than just this one moment? That sort of. And why is it only Janeway that sees that? Maybe she's psychic. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I feel like that was a little hole for me that could have been answered or used a little more, although I love this episode. So I don't want to

poke any holes in it. But I did find that that moment I was like, oh, now we're going to start to be able to kind of cross over and see each other. And that never really happened. It didn't really go anymore. Can we say that the ship that's unharmed is Voyager 1? Because if you're saying at Voyager 2, you're going against the stance that you made that the Delta Flyers. Let's go Voyager 1. Voyager 1 is the is now the new ship that's not in yeah the one that we're now starting to follow okay the pristine ship

Voyager 1 the original ship thank you I appreciate that thank you Voyager 1 okay and on Voyager 1 we see that Wildman's baby is fine we learn that Kess when she disappeared off of Voyager 2

walked through that force field looking thing see I don't remember I don't remember Kess being in the same Kess 1 and Kess 2 being in the same room. I don't remember that. I remembered now.

When we got to this, when we got to this, yes, and I remember it because I was shadowing David Livingston on this episode because it was such a tricky episode. And I was particularly interested in how they were going to shoot like the two Kess is in one room, two Janeway in one room. And I remember there is a shot where Kess and the doctor, it's a two shot, Kess in the doctor, Kess is on the, on the bed. and the doctor's talking to her and then the doctor walks over to talk to Janeway I think and then he continues to walk forward and we pan over and there's another

kiss the way that they did this was Jennifer lean was on the bed with a doctor and then as the doctor moved over we panned over to Janeway Jennifer lean ran around behind the camera to her new position so when the doctor moved again there was Jennifer lean so she literally it seemed like there were two Kess's in the room. There was one Jennifer Lean. She ran behind the camera while it was panned off of her and then it panned back onto her and it did it again going back the other way. And I had never seen a shot like that and I was very impressed with it. And, you know, that kind of technical stuff, especially when I was shadowing, was really mind-blowing to me and it was very clever of David Lovison to do. Was there no wide shot showing both Kess's

together on screen the same time then in that scene well in in that scene kess was oh kess and the doctor were over with lieutenant wildman and you saw some coverage and then it pulled back as the doctor was talking and that was a double of kess standing so now you you know you had seen her face jennifer lean's face but when we came behind her and started pulling back as the doctor continued talking and then we panned over to the bed where Jennifer Lean was now in that shot. So it was a trick, again a trick. The photo doubles back,

pulling back to find Jennifer Lean in the foreground. Gotcha. Yeah, all of that stuff was very clever and very, very elegantly done. I thought David Liveston blocked this episode, staged it with the actors in a great way. There was a lot of movement, a lot of energy. There wasn't a lot of just standing around

which is the easy way to do things and he didn't do it the easy way for sure. Right. I also think it's great that, you know, I just mentioned earlier before we started talking about this, how I don't recall the scene of the two guesses together at all.

And this falls in line with this, our podcast. Every time I don't remember something is a time that you've been shadowing and you're like, I remember it. So it's like, oh, yay! So you're there to pick up the slack on that. So I thank you for that. Yes, sir.

I thought I thought I usually when I shadowed I wouldn't necessarily shadow the directors every single scene every single day but uh right you remember being there for some of this and I and I remember wanting to be there for some of that trickier stuff with the the two you know two the the double character scenes where I wanted to see how they were going to shoot that stuff hey were you there for the two Janeways uh when they were talking back and forth to when they were face-to-face in engineering. Were you there that day? Yes. I don't remember it as well as the Jennifer Lean running behind the camera trick. That was a great trick that I've remembered when I've directed scenes like that on other shows.

I've remembered that trick of kind of moving actors, you know, behind the camera as you choreograph and block the scene. I do remember the scene in engineering with Janeway. they had a great photo double that she looked in that wide shot I think it was the photo double and Kate and they just looped in Kate speaking but she was a very good photo

double almost oh good I don't remember who it was but she was really good and then in the close-up scene I do remember they shot one side of that on the set and another part of that on a green screen

okay that makes sense to put them together I thought that was less effective for me because they looked a little too close I think I made a note of it later on it looked oddly those shots are always hard to do to make the actor's eyes

focused in the right place the eye line was a little bit off definitely and they were a little bit too close correct yeah Harry saves the day again I just gotta say we could rig a portable phase discriminator it might protect you from the spatial transition he says later on so again he's saving the day in this episode

he sacrificed himself Yeah, it's a good episode for you Portable phase discriminator I like that I also liked when the doctor said to Kess, you know, trying to reassure her and sick that he goes, don't worry Kess I'm sure your ship is equipped with an emergency

medical hologram two. You'll be okay It's like, oh dude, you're funny so cocky. God, they give him such great lines and they do Yeah. And right around here is where they all realize that there are two voyagers and two crews. And yeah. And they decide the answer is to merge the two ships, which I thought was crazy. That just seems crazy. How are you going to? And it is crazy because it doesn't work. No, it doesn't work. It didn't work. They tried. It ended up pulling it further apart is what it was. yeah further out of phase now yeah but you got to try got to so janeway one let's call her the the okay ship janeway decides she's going to come over to to voyager two yeah the destroy the

the the breaking apart voyager so janeway's going to cross over and i love when she walked into engineering and you see her and then it whip pans over to a close up of the other janeway again a simple technique but david livingston did a great job at shooting these scenes where you had two of the same character in one scene that whip pan entrance was very energetic and shocking and and fun and felt very you know exactly the right shot to tell the story at that moment agreed yeah that was good and we talked about when uh they walk up to the balcony and they have a little conversation up there and chainway one says i understand Janeway 2 that you want to destroy

this thing. Just give me 15 minutes. Give me 15 minutes to try to think of another thing. And I thought, as she's saying that, I'm like, oh, I see where this is going. She's going to go destroy Janeway 1's going to destroy her ship because she knows the other Janeway is willing to do it. So I thought

she's tricking her or something, which turned out not to be how the story went because the Videans show up. And geez, oh geez, the Videans take over fast. Yeah, I was a little disappointed about that. I mean, I mean, the first person to get shot is Tuvok, our head of security. It's sort of like shouldn't, shouldn't have been the last guy to be taken down, you know? I mean, he should have been the most able to withstand an alien attack. Right? But no, he gets shot. And then we see you, you, I remember how you talked about when we did

our deep dive episode you talked about running you're like what I just don't get running and then in this scene why I don't get running yeah you weren't really into running that that much in that scene well part of it is you know they're pushing a dolly just so everybody in the audience knows the the hallways were carpeted so they pushed a regular dolly which is pretty heavy it's a heavy thing and I can't go that fast yeah and so whenever you're doing those scenes they always say hey yeah run and fire behind you, but don't run 100%, run like 70% of what you would really run. So you're like, because they can't keep up with you because they're pushing a dolly. Correct.

You're like, okay, if I run 70%, I'm going to look like I'm just sort of loping along. I don't know. It's just, yeah, it was bad. And I had to shoot and then I had to duck because somehow out of the back of my, the eyes in the back of my head, somehow I knew the guy behind me was about to fire. I mean, it was like, it was so choreographed. Like, I shoot, you shoot, I shoot again. And I run like a lope.

You know, it was not my favorite. It was very, no, it was very Broadway musical like. Thank you. To me. Yeah, I felt like I should have been like jazz hands or something. Jazz hands, yes. And then you get shot in the back and you go down. I died too, though.

But you do die. Yes. Yes. I forgot. I didn't know that I died in this episode. Everybody dies. Hours. You died.

It's like an episode of Oprah, right? You die and then you die. You get a death. Everybody gets a car. You get a death. And when you died, that was mere hours after my death. Or maybe just minutes after my death. I know.

There's a lot of death. Joined me. Yeah, the Vidians were badasses. They were pretty good. Are you at the mess hall? Sorry, you're at the sick base scene where I come in to the baby yet? I am. I am. And I was very, I was very moved. I mean, it was, it was very, it was very moving. It really

was. Rebecca was like, I'm tearing up. This is really emotional. And, uh, I love the, I didn't like my no. I didn't like my no. When I came up upon, I came up upon the little incubator thing and the baby's gone. And I went, no, I did kind of, and I kept thinking, why would I be that loud? I'm going to give away my position. I should have been more internal. I think I should have went, no, no, no, no. It should have been a silent or whispered no. You see what I'm saying? Because the Vidyans are everywhere, right?

But then again, I guess Harry's caught up in the moment because his mission has failed in his mind, right? He's like, dang it, I came here to get the baby. The baby's already gone, you know? So maybe that's why I had the bigger no. You probably also had a bigger no because you had just fired a phaser out of Vidian, jump rolled, and fired another phaser.

I mean, I don't know that you had to jump. jump roll. I felt like you were being a little flashy with your... I chose to do that. You know that, right? No, I didn't know that. You don't know that. Yeah, yeah. So what happened? No, this is what happened. No, this is what happened was, David Livingston said, he was like, okay, we're going to block this scene. Okay, Garrett, you come in through the door. You're going to shoot this one Vidian and then just turn and shoot this other guy. I'm like, wait a minute. That other guy is going to see me shooting the first Vidian. He's going to do something and shoot at me. Why don't I jazz this up a little bit by kind of dodging it and doing a front roll. And in actuality, they were supposed to make that

effect so that as I'm front rolling, that's how I dodge the phaser fire. But instead, they made it so that the VDian missed me kind of high. You see what I'm saying? And then I front roll. But the front roll is supposed to happen as a way of dodging the Vdian fire. Oh, that would have been better. The visual effects, yeah, so visual effects sort of screwed up on that. And so when I said, let me just kind of juz it up, David says, what do you have in mind? I said, I'm going to front roll. I said, no, I didn't say Judge. I said, let me Jackie Chan this is what I said to him. I said, let me

Jackie Chan this scene. And he said, okay. So I showed him in rehearsal. He goes, great, let's do that. And so that's how that came in there. And if you think I was showing off a little bit, well, yes, indeed I was. That's funny. I liked it. I think it. Oh, I thought it was great.

I felt like last week when I did my own stunts and bounced off a bed and rolled on the ground, I was like, oh, yeah, Tom. Paris last week did a little role and now look at Harry King doing his scene yeah it was following you what did you say Rebecca said about that scene you said something about uh she was very emotional when yeah all you know the yeah all of it the whole ending sequence it was very emotional if you think about it these are the characters that all the fans have grown to love over over the two seasons and now we have a scene where the vidians are boarding the ship and

And every single series regular is being killed. Yeah. Harvested, right? I mean, it's very emotional. So it's sort of like, oh, my God, you know. But I just love the ending scene when they end up on the bridge. And both Chacote and Janeway are just calm as calm can be, you know, and she just stands up and she's like.

They look over, they see the self-destruct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was cool. It was a good explosion, too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It would have been cool to see Janeway.

say something a little bit more snarky, you know. I was like, like, welcome to the bridge, mofos like that, or time to die, or something like that, but she didn't. She was, she was, she was classic. She was very classy. She was also very classy at the very end, the last line of the episode when she says the wise, wise words to Harry Kim, she says, Harry, we're Starfleet officers.

Weird is part of the job. I was like, that's so funny. That was her last. Yeah, her last words of wisdom. Which throws into my theme for this episode. Oh, yeah? Weird is part of the job. Weird is part of the job.

I feel like we should have some merchandising that has weird as part of the job. We are starts with the doctors. I think that's all the same thing. Yeah. So my theme really is sort of weird as part of the job, but also to expect the unexpected. Because as you watch this episode, the thought process is, Voyager 2 damaged Voyager

is going to be the self-destruct Voyager but they don't become the self-destruct they're the ones that survive it's the totally pristine Voyager that has to enter the self-destruct sequence so that you never know which way life is going to turn so always expect the unexpected so you're not surprised

so that's that is the theme that I got if you have another one please chime in on that yeah my theme was more about sort of like that there's there's really only it comes back to kind of your your question to me early on of you know which is the real Voyager which is the copy I never felt I felt like the theme of this episode was there is only one true version of who you are and it doesn't die it doesn't it can't be copied

it can't there's only one like there is a essential truth that always will be there no matter what living or dead or you know after we're long gone there is still an essential truth about who we are and there's only one true you I guess is really there's only one true

version of all of us in the episode all the characters in the episode that was sort of my takeaway and that was my theme there good yeah great Well, like I said, I really loved, I love this episode. It's one of my favorites we've watched so far. And I got to say, I did not remember a thing about it until we watched it.

And then so much came pouring back, but it was really fun to watch. And I'm glad that Harry One decided to come join the Voyager 2 gang. And yeah, it was great. It was really great. Thumbs up? Thumbs up. Give it a big thumbs up. Okay. Thanks guys for tuning in for this week and join us next week when we review the episode

Innocence, Innocence, next week. See you then. Thank you.