The Delta Flyers - Death Wish

Episode Date: December 14, 2020

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Death Wish. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.Death Wish:When an imprisoned member of the Continuum escapes and seeks asylum on Voyager, Q arrives to force the escaped convict's return home.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca Jayne, and our post producer Jessey Miller.Edited by: Megan EliseAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Ann Marie Segal, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Daniel Adam, Chris Knapp, Michelle Zamanian, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Megan Hurwitt, James Zugg, Mike Gu, Shannyn Bourke, Holly Smith, Jesse Noriega, Dominic Burgess, and Amber EasonAnd our Producers:Chris Tribuzio, Jim Guckin, Steph Dawe Holland, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Father Andrew Kinstetter, Ann Harding, Gregory Kinstetter, Laura Swanson, Luz R, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Katie Johnson, Craig Sweaton, Ryan Hammond, Nathanial Moon, Warren Stine, York Lee, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Cutler, Crystal Komenda, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Aithne Loeblich, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Oliver Campbell, Anna Post, Robert Hess, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Nathan Butler, Terry Lee Hammons, Andrei Dunca, Daniel Owen, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Ming Xie, Mark G Hamilton, Jeff Cramer, and Heather ChappelleThank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This audio message will serve as a warning and a disclaimer that this particular episode of the Delta Flyers podcast will contain discussion of the topic of suicide. The Delta Flyers, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself Garrett Wong in no way, shape, or form condone suicide. If you happen to be struggling with thoughts of suicide, we will. We urge you to contact your local suicide prevention hotline number. We will try to include as many numbers as possible in the show notes for this podcast episode. Thank you for listening and live long and prosper. Hey everybody. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through.

episodes of Star Trek Voyager, your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Hello, hello, ladies and germs. That's a, that's a COVID joke. Ladies and germs, get it? Yes, yes. But you didn't come up with that. We've heard that for many, many, many years.

Many, many years. It's an old, oldy but goody. Lighthearted, it's an oldie but goody that I think is good to bring back during COVID. times. Ladies and germs. Oh my Lord. Ladies and viruses. Do you have, how often do you have to take a test for your work at this point? Twice a week. I have been tested at least twice a week on my last show that I was doing August and September and part of October. We were doing three days a week on that show.

Currently we're doing two, mostly two. Sometimes we're adding a third depending on the work week. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot. telling you know I've been working on an acting gig and so then they are testing me all the time like every before I go to work every time I have to go to work I have to test so and it's been crazy it really has been are you doing throat or nasal swabbing nasal swabbing lower nasal swabs not the brain tickler not the one that goes way in the back right but the lower nasal swab that's still that's still uncomfortable and not cool too even the lower one I've had the lower one too I also I've done a spit test which is that one too I've done that one I've done the lower nasal swab the upper nasal which is very painful yeah um yeah there's a lot of different we've done all three I've done upper lower nasal and I've done spit yeah thing and that's the one where you kind of cough your spit up kind of a thing I guess so I don't remember this is getting too detailed for me is it TMI is TMI yes it's TMI I'm

Let's just stick to ladies and germs. Let's just stick to the ladies and germs. Welcome to the Delta Flyers, ladies and germs. Yeah, here we are. What is the episode this week that we're talking. Death wish. Death wish. What an ominous name.

Death wish. Death wish. Yeah, I forgot. Yeah. Okay. Death wish. I'm excited. Yes, I'm excited too.

Let's go watch this. Come back and let's recap and give everyone our thoughts on this episode. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for What Do We Remember? I don't know why I did that way. You're silly. I know. This is a classic for Voyager, actually. I remember a lot of things now that we're back.

This was a thinking episode. This is an episode that just makes you go, oh, my gosh. It's like there's a lot of depth to this. episode, right? Agreed. So I'm, I'm going to, I'm going to see if you, you want to throw out your limerick first to start off the thing. I will. I will throw out my limerick. And I'll follow with the hymn. Roll down here. So I just want to say with my limerick, like one thing that happened early in this episode is, uh, Chocote says, do you know it looks, feels and tastes like a cometh? and I just couldn't stop thinking about that he tasted

he looks feels and tastes like a comet okay so with that said I'm going to give you my limerick on the comet crust Chocote liked to chew but transported over from inside was a cue he wanted to die Janeway broke the tie so Q put the continuum in his rear view. Oh, sir. That was impressive. I, oh, man. You better, you better, you better pat. I'm smooth. I'm smooth. I'm smooth. Okay. That's the, that's my

lyric. Pat yourself on the back. Pat yourself on the back. That was really, really impressive. What the heck, man. Did you overtime on that? I did have a little help from Rebecca on that because I was stumped on some of the rhymes. So, you know, teamwork, teamwork. You credited RJ for that. So good, good one on Rebecca, okay, so that is really, really funny. All right, okay, ready for your haiku. Hiku, Tom. Here we go, here we go, here we go. Q beamed aboard ship makes request for asylum.

Janeway grants his wish. Whoa. Asimar, Aismar. Whoa. Oh, interesting. This is a hard one, like, that's a great haiku. I'm very impressed. I'm always impressed with the high kiku.

because they're so kind of they're like you know impressionistic they're just they are little tastes right so you yeah you don't yeah you don't have to give the whole meal it's like an appetizer it can be so

meaningful and symbolic you're not eating the whole comet it's just a little bit of the comet just a bite of the comet just a little bite yes that was a funny line you're right I will say it was very funny I will say

this episode is hard to capture even a haiku or a limerick or a synopsis because it's a very complicated subject matter I guess is what I will I will start with my overview of like this is a tricky episode the subject matter of suicide let's just you know talk about what it is talking about suicide is a very uncomfortable it can be and I think for most people is a very uncomfortable subject. And so I thought this was a really interesting episode in terms of its sort of intellectual challenges

that it presented. It was not an action-packed episode. We didn't go, you know, we weren't having space battles and there was very little adventure in it, honestly. You know, they went to the one scene where they go to the continuum. and it's kind of a, you know, a pretty but boring place. I mean, you sort of get why Quinn is like, I can't do this anymore.

Like, there's nothing to hope for. There's nothing stimulating about this. It's all, everything's been done. Life has been lived. I'm done. I'm ready to stop. Yeah. Anyway, lots to talk about with this episode.

Yeah. Let me just, before I forget, you talked about, you know, the continuum being kind of a boring place. they depicted a it's very obvious it was shot in the you know California desert you can see Joshua trees in the background there and as much as you know Janeway sort of said this this is it this is it you know she's sort of like wow yeah nothing but to me as an actor I'm like oh god I would have dreamed to be on location right there that would have been wonderful because you know Kim's always on the damn ship I very rare you know a lot of times yeah when everyone gets to shoot in a different setting where they're utilizing, you know, modern day backgrounds and

maybe, you know, whatnot out in the middle of the California desert. Kim is always on the damn ship. And in this episode, that desert looked wonderful to me. So I'm just going to throw that note out there. Yeah, I think that often with our show, when we were able to go out, they didn't go out very often on location but when we did it was it was really beautiful scenery it was out to you know the dry lake beds or out to joshua tree or out to lone pine or some of these places that were just really beautiful um beautiful you know uh locations so yeah i know what you mean i looked at that and i was like oh that's pretty cool that actually looks pretty cool um all right so this episode was directed by James Conway. I had forgotten that he directed this one. Yes. Jimmy Conway.

Jimmy Conway. Jamie Conway. Jim Conway directed it. Michael Pillar wrote the script based on a story by his son, Sean Pillar. Yes. And Sean Pillar, who is four years, you are four years older than me. Sean Pillar is four years younger than me. So when he submitted this storyline, I calculated this, he was, I I think at the tender age of 23, something around there. I think he had just graduated from film school. That sounds about it. It was in film school or something like that. Because I do remember Michael Pillar talking about his son. And Sean is his stepson, although I think Michael raised Sean most of his life.

So I know Sean, and Sean took Michael's last name. So certainly Michael was like the father figure for Sean in his life. I don't know if you recall, but Sean actually came. came on set during this filming of this episode. Oh, I think I do remember him coming down. Yeah. And that's very rare. I mean, people that sell stories to Voyager,

they don't usually show up on the set. But of course, Sean being Michael Pillar, the executive producer of Voyager's son, has a little bit more carte blanche, you know, in terms of appearing and showing up on set. And I just remember thinking, wow, this is pretty cool. You know, the executive producer's son actually sold a storyline

to our show, which is great, you know. Yeah. Is it nepotism? I mean, Sean Pillar is a talented guy. I mean, as you know now, I mean, I think he lives in Vancouver or Toronto at this. I think he lives in Toronto now. Yeah, he's been producing shows and whatnot in writing for God knows how long. This is, that's his life.

So he's definitely gone on to have a wonderful career. But it was just so nice to be able to see, you know, Sean and meet him for the first time. And, you know, I was very proud of the fact that he was able to. tell that story to the show. Well, it's a very complicated story. It really is. And for a 23-year-old to come up with this story, whatever version. You know, often stories are conceived, you know, the story could have been, I don't know

what Sean's story is. He may have come up with all of the details and aspects of this story. Or he may have just come up simply with like a couple sentences that said something like, you know, a new cue appears on Voyager. doesn't want to be immortal and the old cue shows up and they have to debate Janeway has to decide whether whether you know Q can die or not period that might have been the whole story idea and based on that the writing staff and the writers start to flesh it out and you know often that's all that is pitched as a story but it's enough of an idea it's

it's the essence of the idea that the thing gets developed yeah definitely so Yeah, we do not. And this is something that I would love to ask Sean at some point, you know, how when you pitch this, was it sort of a one-liner pitch where you just get a very brief pitch? Or was it more extensive where you really kind of, you know, you broke it down into acts and this and that. Because yeah, because when it, and people don't realize that some of the pitches are very, very short. The very first scene, did you notice? You're not in that scene. What? Janeway standing at your station. On the bridge, the first time we go to the bridge, and you're not, you're nowhere to be found. Well, let's, let's revisit something that we, I think we may have mentioned very early in this podcast, this, I may have told this story, I don't recall. Maybe it was on the Jonathan Frakes portion of our, one of our interviews with Jonathan. But this was the episode where that famous phrase, you're the one who wanted to go home, Robbie, came from. This is the episode. Are you sure?

Yes, Jim Conway was directing and I was on the bridge. We were all on the bridge and that work had been scheduled for the second half of the day. And they were doing the whole trial. Some of the trial scenes, particularly the one with Frakes and Ginsberg, Mori Ginsburg and Isaac Newton. They were doing that scene in the briefing room and then they were coming on the bridge to do our bridge work. And I had said, hey, my kid. has a, you know, a little league game or there was something important that I wanted to try to make with my kid that day. So I had mentioned it. And they were behind. They were way behind because every time I came on stage, I remember hearing laughter and silliness in the briefing room. And they were, it seemed a little behind. And so when they got to the bridge, you know, I was there. I had asked, you know, I really want to get out of here. Can I get shot out first? I'd love to get to my kids. thing. And so when they finally, we were waiting for Jim Conway and those guys to come in from the other set. And I think I might have been laughing about something or making a joke. And Jim walked in very frustrated being behind, which I get as a director, I get frustrated when I'm behind too. But he walked in and he sort of snapped at me and said, because I was the one that

happened to be laughing in the moment or whatever was going on. And he was like, you're the one who wants to go home early robbie and i remember when he said that i got so i took it so personally and i was like i was like wait a minute i can't remember what i said to jim and i love jim he's a great guy but i remember in that moment kind of going wait a minute don't snap at me because the other scene is two hours behind like yeah i wanted to go but anyway that's this episode enough okay that's can i no no can i give you can i give everyone my take of it like that's your view but i saw it too i was there okay you were okay yes they were not coming from the briefing room over into the bridge we were already on the bridge filming we were already

in the midst of filming and you were sitting down there yes you were sitting down there you're holding your buck you're and you made some funny comment like you were you know like how you are you're funny guy so you made a funny comment people started laughing and that pissed conway off because he felt like you were you know and then he said and the way you said and the way you said said it. He goes like, you're the one that wanted to go home early, Robbie. Actually, he said your name first. He goes, Robbie, you're the one who wanted to go home early. And I looked at your face and you were like, you just had this look of like, what the? How dare you? And what it was, I would have to honestly say, in seven years, I've never seen a director of ours

rebuke an actor except for that one time. That is the only time that. That is the only time that any director, like point out an individual actor to make a, make a lesson of them, an example of them. Yes. And he said it out loud so that everybody heard it. And that's what I took offense to because I thought, if I'm directing and I have a problem with an actor, I'm going to go down to that actor. And same thing with you. And when you're a director, you know, in the times that you've had to deal with actors, maybe an actor is misbehaving or doing something. You'll usually come down, I'm guessing, and talk to them in private. You know, you're not going to sit there and embarrass them in front of the entire school, quote unquote, right? So, and when he did that,

your response was, you were so, oh God, you were so forklimped by that comment. I remember you was really angry and surprise. You were trying to come up with a comeback and you kind of went, well, okay, Jim, like that, like, I mean, whatever you came like with really, really not. I thought I said something like, it's not my fault. two hours behind or so i thought i said oh no you didn't you may have thought that my joke is not why you guys are frustrated it's because you're two hours behind that you're frustrated not my joke but anyway that's this episode so when you say when you say like you weren't on the bridge for that opening scene i wonder if i had gotten myself out of that scene maybe maybe i had said do you really

need me in the scene i don't say anything like can i don't know can i go see my kids kids thing? I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. But that's this episode. That's so crazy because I remember that happening later, like season four or five, but you're saying it's here.

Okay. Wow. This episode really has some, you know, has some triggers for you, my friend. Yes, it does. I would have to say in that opening scene, what was notable to, what was of note to me is that Janeway is standing in your station, basically. She's, and, and Balana is off to, in that side station, off to the right. near Tuvok and so she talks and she talks to Bologna and then she asked me to do something

and then when I respond to her it's clear that my eye line is off it's like what am I looking like where they directed me to look where you were kind of like I'm not I'm like I should have looked further right to see Janeway but instead it would look like I was looking at the left or something, like to the left of you, if you're facing the view screen. So, and so I just wanted to bring up just to the fans and everyone out there listening can understand that a lot of times, you know, when we're filming, especially on our close-ups, they'll give us an eye line that has nowhere near where the other person should be. Like in that case, that was off.

But other times to make it look right, they'll say, okay, look at the corner of the matbox. You know, the right corner right here. They'll put a little X right there. And the map box is that piece of plastic on the front of the lens that keeps the glare from going in the lens. So sometimes you're looking right next to the lens. Yeah, you're looking right next to the lens, which is, you would agree. At least I think for me, every time I have to do that, it's awkward.

Because like you're hearing the other actors say the lines and they're like off to the, you know, far right. But yeah, you're looking right to the left or just to the right of the map box. And you're acting with a piece of plastic. or a little piece of tape that's like put an X and then you're trying to keep up your intention and your motivation

and you're going through all your rigamaroles as an actor. It's very difficult sometimes looking at a piece of tape or sometimes they would take what's called a C stand which is that stand you see on film sets and they put a like a piece of a black flag

which is like a piece of a square fabric that's maybe two by three or something and they'd put an X of tape on that and then they'd raise it up in the air and that would be your eyeline for an alien Species 8472 yeah

and you'd be looking at this thing on a stand with a square on it an X yeah it can be very strange something yeah it's just it's just off putting and it just as and for those aspiring actors out there that's when you've got to focus even more on listening to what the other actor is saying and the given circumstances of your scene

so that it doesn't pull you out so that you're not thinking this is ridiculous i'm not even looking at the actor i'm looking at a piece of tape on a black fabric or looking at just the right of the camera it's a challenge for sure okay what we've learned is that welsh rabbit is what janeway's grandfather used to make for her yes and neelix doesn't even know what a rabbit doesn't know what a rabbit is he's like what a rabbit he's like are you interviewing a replacement It's a replacement, chef. Yeah, he's worried about being replaced. I'd also like to say that this is the episode

where there are three garrets in this episode. You know, there are three Roberts on Voyager, right? Robert Duncan McNeil, Robert Picardo, and Robert Beltran, but there are three garrets. The Q-2, which I call him Q-2, the secondary Q, is played by Garrett Graham. He spells his name G-E-R-R-I-T, which is, the Dutch spelling. It's the Dutch spelling and it means brave with the spear is what Garrett

means. So there's that Garrett. Then there's Garrett me. And there is also in that initial scene where we talk about Welsh Rabbit, you see the camera pan across and you see all the extras, all the background actors that are in there. Ayala's there. Tarak Ergan is standing up there. But there's also an Asian gentleman with slicked back here in gold uniform yet once again. I don't know what it is. They've got to put every Asian person in a gold uniform. That's Garrett Sato, my friend Garrett Sato. So he's from Hawaii. So I just, I think that's a little piece of trivia.

Three Garets. Three Garets in this episode, exactly. Nice. All right. We learn in that scene that Q was being held against his will in this comet and that he wants to die. We learned that for the first time. Yeah.

I love the moment. I was very moved by the moment where he meets Kess and he knows immediately. He's like, oh, you have such a short lifespan nine years. Yeah. And he's really emotional about that, which was, you know, early in the episode, just a really touching moment and interesting moment. Yeah. And then he goes and does his thing and all the men disappear, which I thought was fascinating. And a great setup for Q John Delancey, Q1, to show up and be, you know, the male chauvinist that he is and make all the comments about the Valkyrie. You know, what did the Valkyrie take over the ship? It's all women here. ship of Valkyries, yes. Yeah, the ship of Valkyries. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer?

Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after a trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill.

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So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. get this new customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash TDF. That's mintmobile.com slash TDF. Up front payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. What do you think of is the hand movement? Do you think he came up with that? Was that written in the script? He did that. this little, which is very Janeway-esque, because Janeway does the double-finger thing,

you know, a lot. She'll point towards things with double finger, and this guy did a little like a swirl and an up movement, whereas Delancey does a snap whenever he does a Q thing, you know, so I'm just wondering if that was just an actor decision or not, but I thought that was interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I loved Delancey's line. Did anyone ever tell you you're angry when you're beautiful? You're beautiful. I loved it. It's like, God, what a show of us. It's so, it's so It's so cute. We're in the scene where you say we're under attack

and Chacote goes by a ship and then you go by by I almost thought it was a glitch because like you I've never you just kept repeating by and I was like bye bye bye

that's when we were like at the subatomic level and there was what was it tracking? That's right yeah you you went sling blade on us though by Bye, yeah. That's funny. Well, we've become subatomic, and then we became a Christmas tree ornament.

Yes. I love that moment when we're a Christmas tree ornament because we really were a Christmas tree ornament. So that, that's what I wrote down. My notes were, is this scene, did this scene predate the actual hallmark Voyager ship, the Voyager ship Christmas ornament? I don't think so. I think they came out without the very first Christmas. The first Christmas? Yeah, I think so.

Really? Because I kept thinking, well, maybe this is what. what gave them the idea to have the Christmas morning as a ship. But regardless, it was funny. All I thought of about was Hallmark, Hallmark Christmas Tree Voyager. Yeah, and I loved Delancey looking inside and, you know, that whole point of view. That was nice. And then he sort of climbed in.

He climbed in the view screen. Do you remember that and sort of lay down on the view screen? Yeah, he had that sort of playgirl pose that he was doing over there. That was different. why do Q's have dark colored lips lip color what's up with that? Well the other the Quinn Q2 did not have dark color I think he did in certain scenes though Robbie certain scenes in certain light his the thing is Delancey's lips are bigger and fuller than Garrett Graham's Garrett Graham's are thinner but in certain

lights I did see the darker coloring on his lips too I think it was just a choice in when when Delancey first came on as Q in this character in TNG yeah I think so gave him the dark lips then. I think so. I think so. Yeah. Maybe they Kews love eating chocolate and that's just a stain from chocolate. Wasn't the first time we saw Q in TNG? He had that whole, the Q costume. The big, yeah, he had the black hat and it was very, it was a lot of black in that costume. So I bet they did this black lipstick to sort of be part of the whole package. And then when he came on our show, he was just in a Starfleet, one of our Starfleet uniforms. Yeah. But they were like,

we got to keep the black black lipstick because it wasn't that that wouldn't be makeup that would just be part of what your lip color was so yeah okay yeah all right that would make sense to me that they sort of got stuck with it with the original design of his costume and everything um yeah so finally janeway's like you know i can't take this anymore and she agrees to hear arguments for his asylum for q2 wants asylum And Delancey Q says, all right, if you win this argument, then we will agree to make you mortal and you can kill yourself. That's how confident he is that he's not going to lose this. Yeah. So it's off we go, the trial of Q's. Yes. I want to add that Delancey would have made a great Vulcan with the amount of eyebrow raises he does throughout this episode. he's he's so good at the end of not everyone can independently raise one eyebrow that much higher than the other one he does such a great job at that that's just one of my notes here we uh we do see delancy i did notice he says at one point uh yes let's do this trial jane way and we'll see if the pants really fit and he looks at her butt did you notice that he'll see if the he goes we'll see if the and he pauses and looks down at her bum he does he does look at her bum he goes we'll see if the and he pauses and looks down at her bum he

And he goes, the pants really fit. I found a lot of chauvinistic comments from Q, Delancey Q. But I think that he's kind of superior to everybody. Like he was superior to Picard. He's superior to he just had an ego and a cockiness with everyone. But it sort of played out as a chauvinistic sort of angle with the, with. Yeah, that wasn't the only, that wasn't the only gender kind of, you know, offensive. comment he made another one or i can't remember what it was now but yeah it was also very just like

oh yeah he was definitely mixing mixing it up in the uh in the gender the gender uh assaults on her and and comments and criticisms yeah snarky comments that he would make but i think that's very much his character people love that character they love q so uh we come back in the next and Tuvok is in his quarters reading and all of a sudden Q 2 or Quinn appears right up in his face. And Tuvok says, have the Q always had an absence of manners or is it the result of some natural evolutionary process that comes with omnipotence? I thought that was amazing. I loved his reading of that line. Have the Q always had an absence of manners? Oh, so good. so good. Tim Russ is just, he's awesome. He is good. I was thinking that too when I was going through

this episode. I'm like, Tim is so damn good as a Vulcan. It's just like really good. Yeah, he was really good as the lawyer. Yes. And my joke is as long as I've been going to conventions is that the reason why he's so good at his character is because he is truly Vulcan in real life. That's why. Yes. He's so damn good. I love that Q2 or Quinn, as we learn to call him, he talks about how the the cue appear omnipotent but they're not they have evolved but they've sacrificed a lot he says and and we also learn that that tuvok says you know vulcans practice ritual suicide which i thought was very interesting because i didn't i did not know that about vulcans that they practiced ritual suicide that they allowed it and um and it seemed because we know vulcans live a very

long life. He said when they become sick or affirmed, that it is common that they allow and support ritual suicide. Yeah. Which I thought was, it makes sense with Vulcans who are looking at this from a logical place and an empathetic place without emotion. Just, I thought it made a lot of sense. So it was interesting to hear that. Well, they also make mention that, you know, in the court proceedings, I guess, they make mention of many cultures utilize suicide. But when it comes to Western cultures, specifically Christian-based societies like United States, suicide is a sin, you know, in the body. You're not supposed to kill yourself, right? I mean, you're committing a sin by committing suicide. So, you know, the whole notion of suicide.

especially for modern Western culture is a huge deal. It's a really, really good issue. And it's clearly this story is really well done. It's clearly a puzzle, an intellectual and emotional puzzle, and just an instinctual puzzle for Janeway. She really struggles with it. I loved when Delancey doubled himself. He said, I want to call a witness of the very esteemed me or something.

He snaps, and there he is. talking to himself. It was just very funny. Yeah. So how easy was that for them to film that? Where Delancey actually crosses behind other Delancey, which I thought maybe that he wasn't allowed to do that. Well, they probably filmed the Delancey who was in the background first, and they probably locked off the camera, as my guess. So it was locked down very hard and didn't move.

And they filmed him in the background probably with not even chair or anything there. And then they probably rolled in a green, you know, eight by eight foot by eight foot or ten foot by ten foot green into that space and put a chair in front of it. And then sat John down and he did the seated portion separately. And then I could put those together. But it is very tricky and very time consuming. And hard to sometimes get a real, when you've got the same actor supposed to be looking at himself. You're often guessing. You're often guessing at the the eye lines there you know it's it doesn't quite line up with the distance and the angle that it should be so it was just a little bit off a little bit off yeah and also

weren't we dealing at some point in the very beginning with blue screen before green screen I think we were I remember that I mean that we had blue screens and sometimes we'd have blue because the green the green is uh what they're looking for is just a really specifically unnatural color to sort of key off of so the computer will look for the green color or the blue color that's not anywhere else in any fabrics or any skin tone or whatever and then it will it will replace all of that green but sometimes the spill the light spill off of a green screen will make the actors look a little green or the wall look a little green or things like that so they'll sometimes put a blue in there because it feels more natural that it's spilled

you know, the bounce of the light on the wall or something. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah. All right. I felt like I noticed a little green screen spill in the briefing room, which, by the way, they took out our briefing room table and put in the judge's chambers, you know, the judge's desk where Kate said and the other two desks. And I just thought, that was interesting because I've never seen our briefing room

redecorated for any other episode. until now. That's the first time I was like, oh, they literally moved it out. Like, I don't know what the logic of that is or where those tables came from. Right. On our ship. But that's the only time I've ever seen that room redressed in that way. Huh. Okay. Also, back to two Vox quarters. And I know I'm going back a little bit. Yeah. I'm so jealous. He had a full-size couch. He had a big, I know. He had big quarters. He had a big... I'm jealous of two bucks big quarters, his big sofa. You, by the way, said something.

Speaking of innuendo, you, by the way on the bridge and like that early scene goes, oh, that won't be a problem to penetrate, Captain. You had some line early on. What? It was the comet. She was like, Ensign, can you, you know, isolate the below the crust of the comet and, you know, to beam it aboard. And we cut to you and you're like, no problem, Captain, that'll be easy to penetrate.

In this episode? Yes, I was like, Garrett, I felt like you were, you were giving it a little innuendo that was not appropriate. Okay, not appropriate. Was I ensign innuendo? You were ensign innuendo. Okay. I am going to have to look for that. I did not see that, but I'll have to look for that.

By the way, okay, so back to the trial. Yes. I forget who, I just wrote the note down. suicide versus capital punishment, you know, a society that condones and allows capital punishment, but yet outlaws suicide makes no sense, no logical sense. It might have been Tuvok in this thing. But I thought that was an interesting argument that like, yeah, there's just a lot of very interesting intellectual arguments. I think instinctually for me, my instinctive is that human nature wants to just from an animal place wants to we fight to survive if someone throws us in the water we try to

swim we don't you know we try to fight for drown we don't just drown yeah we fight for life so I guess from a for me this is just my you know my perspective I guess it's hard for me to comprehend um you know choosing not to swim I guess you know I understand it intellectually but from like a just nature place. I wonder like, why wouldn't I want to keep trying to swim? Why wouldn't I want to? And so it's a puzzle. This is a tricky episode because intellectually I can understand some things that on an emotional or, you know, another level I can't. It's, it's very, it's very challenging. Well, just watching this episode made me think of, um, the famous Dr. Kavorkian who was, you know, assisting people who were terminally ill and in major pain. And they,

And he was basically going to their home and assisting their suicide, assisting their death. And it was illegal. And I still, I think it's still illegal, isn't it in this country? Most states in America, it is illegal. I know it's not illegal. I think in Oregon or Washington state. There's a handful of states where assisted suicide is legal. I know in other countries in Europe and things, assisted suicide is illegal.

You know, I'll say, again, this is just my opinion in a very common. complicated subject. But my opinion is if someone is suffering from disease and you're in a hospice situation where there is no cure, there is only managing, you know, pain and distress and things like that. I can understand the choice to want to have an easy death and to have a a comfortable goodbye of your own choosing rather than letting nature do its ravages and drag someone through suffering.

I've lost both of my parents to cancer. I'll be blunt. And cancer is just a horrible disease and the suffering and the pain that I saw both of my parents go through, I would not wish on my worst enemy. So, you know, suffering and pain

if there's a way that we can help people you know, with that anyway, I'm very supportive of that intellectually and emotionally, you know, just being kind and limiting and minimizing suffering for anybody. Yeah.

So, and that I thought was interesting in this episode because Janeway uses that argument. She says, you know, she says it point like I need to be convinced of some kind of suffering that you're like if you can just show me you know to Q2 show me where I don't see the suffering but if you can show me I can I could I could vote for you I could I thought that was in that came to my mind when that when that part was coming up I thought I thought having frakes in Ginsburg and Isaac Newton pop in for their little cameos I thought was really was really a lot of fun and you know freaks in that

one scene with his his great, great, you know, great-grandparent in the Civil War thing, I thought was very interesting. For me, the theme of this episode was about choices and how the most important choices that we make in life can be a complicated paradox, that there is no easy answers, and that there are shades of gray in every experience that we have. Like, it's not that simple, just like this story of which Q is right and which Q is wrong, you know, is wanting death because of, or, you know, whatever, wanting whatever you want, because you've had an experience and that's your experience. Is that good or bad or better or worse than what might seem noble the other Q, Delancey's Q1,

wanting to say, no, suicide is bad. We have to protect him and our continuum and our culture. They seem noble if you just look at it quickly, but you look at it deeper and there's a lot. So there's nothing that is black and white. There's nothing. Yeah. Especially the more important, the more consequential, the situation. Anyway, yes, that to me is the theme, is the paradox of no easy choice.

Now, on my theme, I always feel that it's similar to yours. I just said that I feel that we must be open to the fact that there are always exceptions to the rule. That there is always a gray area. And that the danger of being too hard line about something is, that is the danger. You know, when you're saying, okay, this is the end all be all.

This is the rule that we say. There's gray area. There's always something, you know, you have to really take each case individually. and dissect it and understand it before making that decision, you know. So, yeah, so, yeah, very, very complex episode. Complex episode. And it's great because at the very end, Q1, Delancey, actually is a person that provides Q2, Quinn, with the hemlock,

which is nowhere on the ship. You know what I'm saying? So even that cue at the end, even though he lost, he was like, wow, I do see what you're saying. You know, let me help you. Let me assist you. the Kvorkian for Quinn in a way. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting episode. I think that it's also was fascinating to me. You know, so much got covered. It's impossible for us in this review to go through all of the arguments that were made, you know, as that trial closed out. Right.

They do go to the continuum. They see it's a road in the middle of a desert. They see an abandoned gas station. It's pretty boring there. I mean, if that's, If that's their way of communicating what the continuum is, I get it. I get both Delancey's Q1 sort of, hey, it's utopia, it's peaceful, it's everything's good. I get that argument. I also get the, oh my God, I want to kill myself because this is, there's nothing to live for anymore. You've been there, done that, you know, that line where he's like, we've all played the scarecrow. Like everyone's done everything in that continuum.

that can be done multiple times. And they're like, okay, so yeah. They said Q2, Quinn says something like, well, there's nothing left to explore. It's just life is futile and meaningless and hopeless without anything left to explore. And the disease, he says the disease is, you know, trying to relate it to disease for humans, like if someone got cancer. To be kind and allow them to commit assisted suicide. if they had that sort of disease he says our disease is immortality yeah and that's the disease

i thought it was interesting that hugh delancy comes back and tries to offer to bribe her shows up in her quarters and says look there's earth right there look what i'll give you if you just play our you know whatever you want well just let us win yeah i loved janeway's line when she says he says can we have a sidebar can we go to your quarters for a you know, a meeting as the trial's wrapping up. And she goes, you've been in my chambers enough for one visit, sir. You have been in my chambers enough, sir. Yeah, I think that, I think it was interesting that Janeway chose to allow Q2, Quinn,

to win this argument and to be granted his mortality so that he can kill himself. But I think she did it really believing that she could sell him on now that you're a human you have the ability to have all these new experiences and all these amazing treasures that the human experience and she even convinced me in the story i was like oh wow clever move jane way like that's nice move you gave him what he wanted but you yeah you've you know it seems like we're going to get a happy ending here yeah and i was really surprised that it wasn't a happy ending that you know the doctor calls him up and that and that cue Delancey Q is the one that provided this.

Yeah, fascinating, a fascinating story. Yeah, it's a thinker, people. This is a thinker episode. I'd just like to quickly mention, once again, for those of you that are listening, that are not our Patreon patrons, Patreon will offer bonus material that you can listen to, and you can get that bonus material

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