The Delta Flyers - Defiant

Episode Date: January 14, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Defiant, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, & Armin Shimerman. Jonathan Frakes joins for a short interview in the bonus material.Defiant: Cmdr. Will Riker's duplicate steals the Defiant and prepares to lead the Maquis rebels on an attack against a secret Cardassian base.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Steve Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Hailey L., & Mariette KarrAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Mark Lacey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stifflerf, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Karen Galleski, Jeremy Conoley-Mayes, Jan Hanford, Loretta Reyes, Timothy McMichens, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Bethany Grace Howe, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, & Oscar FernandezThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers' journey through the wormhole with Quark Dex and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armand Zimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong, For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. I don't know why I'm using this accent. I don't either. I was wondering if it was going to last the whole time. You know what it was? Because Armand's here, I just feel like to be more theatrical with my... More theatrical. In honor of Armin, that's all. I see. It is semi- It is semi-push accent that I was using. Thank you. I've been one.

watching this last week, this new show called The Penguin on HB. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what's his name? Colin Farrell. In complete prosthetics on his face. Complete prosthetics doing an accent of a kind of Gotham City, New York, you know, mafia guy. Is he killing it?

Unbelievable. He's killing it then. He is killing it. Wow. Yes, I've never seen anything quite as remarkable as that performance. So you have to look through the creative. and find out who the dialogue coach is, who the... Oh, yeah.

Number one, for sure. It's phenomenal. Everyone is wonderful in that show. It's well directed. It's beautifully written. It's the visual effects. Blah, blah, blah. I could go on.

Are you, when you watch... Is performance is unbelievable. Well, so when you're watching, Robbie, are you lost in the character so much you don't even know it's Colin Farrell anymore? Yes. Like, oh, wow. Such a great job. I can't believe to see it.

And, you know, we've come from, Star Trek and prosthetic shows and all of that. So I know how challenging it can be. In fact, I read that Colin Farrell asked he could only do the prosthetics three days in a row. He had to have a day off. Very smart. So they would

schedule him. Yeah. Try to schedule him like Tuesday through Thursday and give a Monday and Friday off. Well, that's smart of production. That's very smart of production because if you have burnout from your lead actor, that show's done. He's the only guy, he can't replace him, right? Yeah. Wow. Have you seen it, Armin?

No, I want to. We've been away. So I haven't had a chance, but it is at the top of my list. It's really, really amazing. Yeah, you've been out of town. Where have you been, Armin, Sherman? I have been touring the Mediterranean. I've been to Crete. I've been to Cyprus. I've been to Athens. I've been to Delos, which was phenomenal. I've been to Micanos. I've been a stop over in Amsterdam, Toronto. I was on the other side of the world from where I'm sitting right now. Wow. That's awesome. Do you feel like you're back home or are you still sort of in that fall? I feel back home, although suffering from a little bit of jet lag.

But one of the things I did was immediately go back to the gym and try to reset my clock. And I think that helped a great deal. Yeah. It's tough, those big trips like that. It can be hard on the body, but what great memories it sounds like. It's great, great. And it was Kitty's 70th birthday? and I must say we did it up Royal for her 70th birthday.

Good for you. Good. I'm so happy you guys got to do that. The other cool thing, we had a little banter before you guys, before you jumped on, Robbie, was that the food, when they were in port, there was one restaurant that served the food of that city or that port, which is pretty cool. You know what I'm saying? They had dishes that. Wow, that's very cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It was excellent. we ate it several there were about five or six restaurants on the boat and we ate it several of them and one of the differences about this particular cruise line

was that when I've done Star Trek cruises or you know other cruises usually everybody sits down in the big table and you have to eat with strangers and if you're like we are and we're entertainers

on the ship then you sort of have to entertain while you're eating but on this ship nobody nobody's forced to eat with anybody else they're just two tops and four tops and your your private time is to yourself wow that's nice especially because this was such a

romantic getaway and you know for the two of you to have some real quality time like that and that's great that's great well good well welcome home we're glad you're back thank you yes what time It is. What time is it, Garrett? What time is it?

It's time to say happy birthday to Seth Carlson. January 14th is his birthday. Happy birthday, Seth. Seth, happy birthday. Happy birthday, Seth. We also have Jeremy Gaskin on January 17th. Happy birthday, Jeremy. Jeremy.

Have a wonderful birthday. Happy birthday, Jeremy. We also have another person having a birthday. Yes. January 18th to Dattau. Happy birthday, Dad. Happy birthday, Dad. Happy birthday, Dad. Time for poetry. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. All right. Etymology. Okay. I think we're going to have a musical episode. I don't know. I feel sing-songy today. Well, good for you. Good for you. Should I sing my poem?

I would love it. That would make me happy. Okay, let's see if I could come up with a quick tune. You have a great voice, so please use it. Yes. Okay, here we go. My poem in song for Defiant. Riker came back, but it's Tom.

He's working with Machi.com. The defiant he steals after Cisco's appeals. He surrenders himself to preserve calm. Oh. Lovely on many fronts. Yeah. Thank you. And you edited it for the song as well.

I'm very impressed with you. Yeah. It was a jingle. Yeah, you jingled it. You jingled it. Okay. Did you like my Riker comes back, but it's Tom. He's working with the maquis.com.

Yes. That's very funny. I don't know why. I love that. It made me laugh when I thought of it. It's very humorous. There's not, and for those listeners out there, there's, I don't think they're is a makhi.com.

Yes, don't go there. You do not have a website. They don't have they're still they're still trying to get fun to have a disclaimer. Yes, exactly. We have no affiliation

with maquis.com. Because I'm going to guess it's probably something we don't want to see. So, you know, just so you know. All right. My haiku for Defiant. Here we go.

Charming flirt that will. what it's my key tom breaker labor camp for life thank you thank you that was good all right it's really good you you guys have done much more work than I have because this etymology is very short okay it isn't very much there for defiant so you're not you're not gonna sing your etymology no I am not this is why I live in L.A. and I know longer live in new york um so the defiant or defiant defiant comes from the old french defiant showing a disposition to defy feeling distrust feeling distrust distrust like what was the what was the

What was the stinky... Pepelelepeu. Pepelelepeu. Peupelelepe lepeu. That's why. But, yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm in for your Pepelepe Lepeu in person, nation. We are very... So, defiant. Defiant. Does that mean the word defy is also French? Yes, yes, yes. Oh, interesting. Defy.

Well, yeah, it sounds like that. Defi or defy. It's Defi. Defi. Defi. Defi. Interesting. It is very interesting.

The French accent. Okay. There's old French. So when an old person speaking French, it's appropriate. All right. We love it. Okay. Written by Ronald D. Moore, directed by good old Cliff Ball.

I'm rather impressed by his work on this episode. I'm really happy with what Cliff did. Agreed. Yeah. He's solid. Did you ever have the experience, Armin, where Cliff would start a master shot, do the first two or three lines and then cut. He wouldn't shoot the whole scene

in a wide shot. You know, I sort of do remember that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember asking him like, why are you cutting? Shouldn't we do the whole scene? He's like,

I'm never going to use this wide shot for the whole scene. No. Whenever he did that, Robbie. Yeah, whatever he did that, I would sit there and go, huh, that's really efficient. But at the same time, I would say,

okay, if you don't want to go any further, that's on you. I would always think that in my head. I'd think that. Now, here's the problem with that, at least for me, personally. Yeah.

I always use the master as a rehearsal. Oh. And always told myself, because learning lines as you get older is a little bit more difficult. And even then, I was having a little bit of difficulty. I was no Michael Dorn, but I had a little bit. And I always thought, okay, Armand, you can fuck up in the master. They're not going to use it anyway. I think I probably got that from Clint Bowles.

So I would do the master in very important. some line would come out wrong or I'd have to ask for a line and I thought I can do this in the master when the coverage comes you should be perfect but so not allowing the actors to have that rehearsal time on camera

I think is slightly detrimental for the actors but good for the director and the producer because you're saving time got it interesting yeah that's very smart use the master to rehearse I want to talk about Cliff Bowl for a moment

Sure. Go ahead. Did you know Cliff Bull was a script supervisor? No. He started as a script supervisor on McAil's Navy. Wow. So he was basically Judy Brown or Cosmo Genovese. Yeah. I feel like I did know.

I did hear that when he worked with us that he had started as a script supervisor. Yeah. What was his first directorial project? Do you know? Because Herman loved it. The $6 million man, perhaps. Oh my gosh. I think that may have been his first.

directed six minutes. Oh my gosh. I watched that show religiously. I would have a great show. A Cliff Ball episode for sure. He did 12 of them. Here's another interesting thing about Cliff Bull. He did direct Charlie's Angel, which I watched all those episodes. He did direct Fantasy Island. Oh, another favorite show for me. Yeah. Wow. He worked with Avery on Spencer for hire. He directed that show. But here's another thing I find interesting about Cliff Bull. He knew Rick Berman from when they had both worked at Warner Brothers. They had crossed paths at a different studio when they were both, you know, younger. When Rick Berman was producing Big Blue Marble, the children's show, maybe?

Maybe. I don't know, but he knew him. They'd cross paths. And that's how Cliff got onto Star Trek. Because of that connection. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's amazing. Backstory. Thank you for sharing that. One last thing about Cliff. Yeah. This will be my final thing. cliff bowl that name the last name bowl was used for a star trick alien do you know that's right the bollians booleans yes the bollians they also use in d space nine the cliffs of bowl they say that so oh they brought that up yeah the cliffs of bull oh yeah that's great that's great and i his directing is literally he is the director of my childhood all those shows you named was were from my childhood so that's amazing yeah thank you for that we love and a very nice man as well yeah he was great

It was great. All right, guest star is Mark Limo as Gold DeCott. Trisha O'Neill as Karinus played Rachel. Oh, Karina, sorry. Trisha O'Neill played Rachel Garrett in Star Trek the Next Generation, third season episode, Yesterday's Enterprise, and Kurok in the sixth season episode, Suspicion. Around the same time, she was considered for the role of Opaka on Star Trek. Oh, DS9, which ultimately went to Camille Saviola.

So, Trisha O'Neill, almost Opaka. Do you know what else about her character? So you said Carinas. Did I say it wrong? Well, I heard Mark Alamo say Carinus. Carinus. Okay. Well, let's say that.

I don't know what it is. Yeah. Because then when I heard him say that, I was like, oh, I've been thinking Carinas is how do you say. I'm going to say Carinus now. Carinis, let's go with Corrinus. Yeah. Corrine. Corrinis.

Yep. She also appears in another DS9 episode later on. Now we have, yes, it's called the Dogs of War. And we have Shannon Cochran, yep, as Kalita. And Shannon appeared in three episodes of TNG and DS9 and had a supporting role in Star Trek nemesis. And she has also been on Star Trek online as Sorrella, a character, Sorella. So she's done a lot of Star Trek. Nice.

I will say I thought Shannon did a great job as Kalita. If they had given her anything. Which character was she? Who was she, the number one on the Defiant? She was the pilot, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Or, yeah, pilot slash number one.

I thought she was strong. I really did. It's hard to have those roles where you don't have much to say. Yeah. You'd lob in some information now and then. And she felt very grounded. She was confident in the space she took up and the role she was playing. She felt, I liked her a lot.

I wish they had given her more, though. I really did want to see more. Michael Kenovan as Tammal. In addition to this role, he played Curtis in Star Trek Voyager, fourth season episode, Unforgetable. So we worked with Mr. Panavan. And as a Vulcan advisor in Star Trek Enterprise, second season episode First Flight. So one Voyager, one Enterprise, and the Stia Stein.

On this particular episode, Shannon met Michael. They worked together. Subsequent to that, they got married. That's amazing. That's amazing. So the two marquee met as guest stars and ended up falling in love and getting married. And getting married in real life. Incredible.

Wow. This is like the television version of Mike Gou and Stephanie Baker. So I love it. I love it. How do you know? Alexander Siddig and not a visitor. Yes, they got married as well after meeting on DS9. I love this. All right. Next up we have Robert Kerbeck as a Cardassian soldier and of course special guest star Jonathan Frakes. I always want to say fracas whenever I see his name. as Riker. And yes, everyone knows who he is. We don't have to go any further into that explanation. Here's a bit of trivia. Cisco's role, yes, Cisco's role in this episode is based on the 1964,

Sydney Lumet Cold War thriller, Failsafe, where the president, played by Henry Fonda, is forced to help the Russians shoot down an American plane on its way to launch a nuclear strike on Moscow. Wow. Yeah. You know, I once heard there are only six real stories in the world, and everything else is a variation on those six stories.

I'll buy that. Well, I do want to say about Shannon and Michael. The married couple? Yeah, so Michael is from Virginia, and she's from North Carolina. So their cultural familiarity could have played a part in that as well. East Coast, East Coast. Yeah, kind of East Coast, East Coast. Like my family's from North Carolina originally,

but a lot of my family moved to Virginia. Oh. So Virginia and North Carolina are very culturally similar. I wonder if they connected on that, you know, growing up in the same region and kind of saying, oh, we... Well, as we all know, they probably had a lot of time waiting around for shots to happen. Yeah. Especially when a lot of the coverage is on Jonathan.

They probably had a lot of time to talk and find out about their mutual backgrounds. Yeah. Yeah. So there you go. All the stars align for them. A lot of shots, a lot of shots on Jonathan. That's adorable. And then Robbie, I love the fact that you're playing a Cupid detective in trying to figure out exactly what connected them.

A Cupid detective. That's going to be the spin-off podcast. That should be Robbie McNeil tries to figure out how famous people hooked up for the first time. That's a genius idea. There it is. There it is. Will you do that podcast? Robbie McNeil, Cupid Detent.

It's like a crime. It's kind of like a crime, you know, podcast, but it's about how do people fall in love? Why? We need a 50s jingle, Cupid Detective. He's on the case. Cupid Detective. Okay. Robbie McNeil.

All right. Some marriages, however, end up as crimes. That's true. Yeah. Okay. Let's get into this plot, shall we? Sure. All right. So we start in ops. I love this scene where Kira's just overwhelmed by so much going on.

Yeah. Says the bazatium. Bizadium transports are arriving. Yeah, something like that. Something like that. They need more space. Can Kira, you know, get that sorted out? Miles says they also want to move their conference up by a week. And Dax then says Starfleet wants a full report on the calibration subroutines. And she's exhausted. I love that close. up at the end, her heads and her hands. There were a lot of close-ups in these early part of the show. There was a lot of, not extreme close-ups, but close-ups.

And they were lit in such a way they looked like beautiful photographic portraits. I was really taken with the way Jonathan and Cliff framed the shots so that the actors looked really good, really good. It's good. Yeah. And speaking of the report. This is the, I'm going to have many little tiny niggling quibbles with this episode. Yes.

Which I like. Well, which I like a lot. Okay. But this is the first of many quibbles. Well, it's uncharacteristic of Dax to hold back that important piece of information for so long and not to tell Kira that. It's not like they can't communicate instantaneously. Right. The fact that there's a report that's due from Starfleet and it's due tomorrow.

Dax would not have kept that from not telling her. It's just places where I start to go, what? Right. But then devil's advocate would be that that command just came in from Starfleet like they're behind on their request. But the way it was played was sort of like, oh, I forgot to tell you. Oh, okay. I mean, she, O'Brien knew.

It wasn't like a, and that's possible, yes, they could have just come in. Okay. All right. Well, I must note that after this op scene, there was a deleted. had seen that they did film and it was a conversation yeah conversation between odo and kira about kira's exhaustion that never made it to uh to the actual shooting to the actual final final draft or the final trust the final cut final cut not final draft final cut correct well that's interesting there's enough there's not enough time in this episode for everything

that happens clearly yeah there this this could have been a two-parter easily um and so i'm I'm sure they had to make judicial cuts because of time. Do you want to read that, Robbie? The scene? Yeah. Oh, I'm looking at the original script right now. You're right. It was the security office scene with Kira Nodo.

Kira's headache is getting worse as she listens to the Odo. Okay. And they shot this scene, I guess, right? Yeah. Okay. I'll be Odo and you'll be Kira. Okay. Deleted scene and action.

Someone, probably a certain bartender we know, has been using a public terminal to falsify inventory records and cargo manifests on the last three Ferengi transport ships that were here. In other words, we have no idea what they've been shipping in and out of this station for the past month. Oh, that means we've got to

open every single Ferengi container on the station. We have another problem as well. The Tholian ambassador reported that someone broke into his quarters during the night and stole three cases of latinum. Three cases? It was the dowry for his wedding.

When's the wedding? Tomorrow. Kira puts her hands on her temple. It's getting worse. And scene. Yeah, I wonder, you're right. Armand, I see why they cut this scene is because it's just a repeat of, you know. The last scene.

The last scene and the next scene. Yeah, it's kind of hitting the nail on the head a little too much. And this episode needed time for sure. And this episode needed time. And forgive me. I really did like this episode. So during the course of this broadcast, please take into consideration I really do like this episode. Got it.

They're just niggling things. So this opening sequences that she is overworked, that she needs to have some downtime, is totally, totally forgotten the moment she and Riker hook up. Yeah. And I go, shouldn't there be some residue of that? be some some payoff to that why why does it matter that she's so exhausted like she could have we could have just started this episode in in quarks with with riker you know she's just having a normal dinner and he says hey it's me or something you know what i mean like none of that setup leads to anything it doesn't go anywhere except for one possibility and i'll bring that up

when the time comes okay all right but thank you for saying that you like this episode overall. I do too. Just that you're nitpicking, and may dare I use our prophet's name as a verb, you're Jason opening it and it's okay. You know, you're allowed to pick it. Because it often

took me out. I would go, wait, that doesn't make sense. Right. But then I would get pulled back in almost immediately. But there was just these moments that doesn't make sense. Why didn't anybody catch that when they were breaking the story? Well, but you bring up a good point. Like, I feel like

Whenever I nitpick on something, it's not to try to find fault in the episode. It's that that detail took me out of the story, and I want to stay in it. I want to stay with these characters and the emotions and stay on the ride. And when something feels like bullshit, you kind of go, ah, I've lost this story for a minute. Well said. We're in the infirmary now, and of course, Kira is there. Bashir is worried about these medical supplies that are delayed. he has to set up, I guess, a remote hospital in one of the colonies, and he doesn't have it.

And he wants the use of a runabout to go to pick up these medical supplies. And Kira is absolutely against this. She says, no, we can't risk this at all. But ultimately what happens is she is losing it. And Bashir calls her out. Yeah, she explodes. Yeah, she explodes. Bashir calls her out on it and just literally calls her back as if she's a petulant child to come back

and listen to him, and she needs to listen to the chief medical officer because his diagnosis or his mandate overrules everything. But she listens, she listens. He says, come on, follow me. Here's my prescription. And they head to corks. And that's where he feels this is, she needs a little dabo table. She needs a little possibly holodeck time.

She needs a jim jostick that they put down there. He gives her like five different things and says, my prescription is you got to use two of these things right now and you'll do this every single day until you can have fun and relax and just enjoy yourself right great and remember what you said every single day yeah every single day you're off duty is what he says to her yeah in the infirmary you're off duty is she we're about to find out she is yeah exactly yeah but they leave she sort of laugh she looks at the jume just sick she sort of laughs to herself yeah and then um and And before you get to the then, I just want to point that, this is one of my days where it took longer to get in the makeup and out of makeup than it took to shoot the scene.

Yeah, but guess what, Armand? But I got paid the same. Yes, exactly. You then had six or more days off at that point. Well, I may not have had them off, but yes, absolutely. Maybe you did some looping. I had them off from Star Trek, that's for sure. Yes.

From the makeup. You didn't have to put it on. Yeah. That's a great day for you. yeah well well she uh she starts to take a sip of her juice when she hears a voice behind her yeah as she's sitting there with her jimjah stick and her lorvon crackers and her carvino juice what is a lorvon cracker i don't know is it does it cause any i don't know i mean is it something that makes someone calm down a little bit is it a no

it's just a cracker then i guess probably a lore yeah yeah yeah i guess she's supposed to really enjoy herself with the Lorvon Crackers, so they, maybe they have a little extra ingredient. But she turns and she finds something better to enjoy herself with it. She does. She turns and finds Riker behind her. And immediately has this look like a, like a fan girl or something. Exactly.

And I go, you know, they don't even know each other. They don't even know each other. Oh, no, wait a minute. It's a step. What? They have no knowledge. of each other? I thought she knew who he was. Now, Dax knows who he is.

Yeah. Oh. Yeah. She doesn't know him, but she turns as though this is, oh, my God, it's Jonathan Frakes. That's what she looks like. Yes, exactly. So basically, I thought the same thing. She let her true, her real life emotions, seeing breaks there, a fellow Trek actor that came

on the show before, right? And she's like, there he is. Hey, yeah, you're right. It was too welcoming. I mean, would she know. him by reputation that's what i thought it was guys i thought it was a rep thing because i that's how you validate it but it but even so it's just from the sound of his voice yeah and what we know that he looks like right she just turns and becomes a fan girl and i go especially when we

know that as we find out in the episode uh and in following episodes that she's still she has a she has a she has a relationship she does she does she does beryl yeah didn't the shot of frayette also wasn't it a low angle like hero angle oh absolutely leaning on the yeah he was like superman standing there on the you know bigger than superman tmg is bigger than superman i'm gonna play devil's advocate right here arman i'm gonna say i'm gonna say that uh that riker is essentially the rock star of starfleet that everybody knows him everybody knows the number one the number one right-hand person to Jean-Luc Picard, I feel this is... Okay, and that's great, and I'm not going to argue with that.

But to me, it looks like she just turned and saw one of the most gorgeous men in the universe. Yeah. And she's hard as a flutter. That's what it looked like to me. I agree. I agree. He's a handsome guy, Frank. He's a handsome.

It's very important. Maybe it was the effects of the Lorvon Cracker. See, that's what I'm saying. What is in the Lorvon Cracker? right is Lorvon is Lorvon an alien mushroom that's my question no idea microdosing Lorvon cracker there you go okay we go in the commander's office Cisco and Riker are talking Rikers headed to Riza he says for Dr. Crusher's because Dr. Crusher insisted that he take a break same as Kira so maybe that's the maybe

connection they have not met before because we're going to hear in a very and very soon that they have never met before okay yes okay But I'm here thematically, like, oh, Riker's been sent off by Dr. Crusher to take a break on Riza because he's overworked, Kira's overworked, maybe that's how they connect it. We just never see that scene. I never see the scene where they talk about the three hours. I have a question for Armin. Both Robbie and I would pronounce RISA, Riza, as if it was a Z, a Z.

Do you say Riza as well? Right. Because that's not how Jonathan Franks pronounces it. He pronounced it, Reisa. Yeah. He's a sound and not a... He's a old friend, but he's wrong. How can that be possible?

Because that's what they already visited in TNG. So wouldn't he know the correct pronunciation from doing episodes of TNG when they went to Riza? Maybe he was in the scene with Avery Brooks. You know how Avery takes words and sort of jazzes him up a little? So he started jazzing with him. Little Brooks vibes going on. Maybe. I'll buy that.

So you're... Thank you for being devil's advocate on me. I appreciate it. Okay. That's my little... Well, he's headed to Riza. Yeah. He's headed to Riza.

And he does mention that he was on the station once before, that he was in Quarks, had a great time. Yeah. Took all my latinum. Yeah. That's possible. Very possible. Date with the Dabo girl. But Cisco warns him that the Dabo wheel is a bit stingy these days.

This scene between Cisco and Riker in Cisco's office also has deleted lines. There was more. this scene. I guess it was filmed. Yeah, let's read through that one. I'll be Cisco. Can you do a good right? Yeah, do a freaks, Robbie. Do freaks. I get, I don't really do impersonations, but I'll do. Just pretend you're here. The spirit of freaks, yes. Okay. Here's my Cisco. Is there anything I can do for you while you're here? A look around the station, maybe a tour of the defiant. Chief O'Brien's working on her Polaron deflected this morning. I'm sure he'd love to show you around. Thanks. But to be honest.

the last thing I want to do on my vacation is look at Polaron deflectors. I can't say that I blame you. Riker leans in with a grin on his face. Now, which Dobbo girl is your son dating just to be on the safe side? Cisco sits back with a mixture of embarrassment and pride. So wait, that was deleted from that scene in the middle. Must have been in the middle. Does it look like a middle?

Interesting. Oh, I can go to the original script. Let's see here. I do have it with you. it no it looks like it's the end of the scene and I'm grateful because I think the story works a tiny bit better if that if it's just go is an offering a tour of the define I know I agree it feels it feels too coincidental yeah that's his whole plan yes goes of offering it up agreed it's a good delete yeah yeah all right

well we do go out into ops Kira is distracted by Riker Dax notices this I love the looks between the girls mentions that she met him at Quarks playing Davo. And what did she do at Quarks? She loaned the money because he was losing. He was losing. Yes.

But he just said that he was winning. Well, maybe that's a clue that it's not the real Riker. But the loaning, wait a minute, the loaning of the money at the end, maybe he went on a run with that final. He may have. Yes, absolutely. That's very possible.

Yeah. It's very possible. I think actually, I think it's a detail that actually exposes the fact that fake Riker didn't know that so he thought no one would bust him on it. But then how does, I mean, I realize they're the same person up until the moment that the accident happened. Yeah.

So all their memories would be identical up until the accident. But if they are two separate Rikers after the accident, they can't possibly know what the other one is going through. Oh, you're right. So that doesn't I thought that too Until I played it through and I went No it's not possible

It doesn't make sense Yeah Small details But also for me The crux of this scene is Is basically Barial who Is what I would say

On this one For Kira Yes Oh yeah Oh my gosh Yeah Which is a tribute You know

I love Jonathan Jonathan is a very close friend And he's very handsome. I've known him practically all of his life, long before Star Trek. And he is very handsome. And he can, and he deserves to be, and not that he deserves to be handsome, but what comes from being handsome, he deserves all that because his soul is more gorgeous than his outside. Sure.

I know that. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. But the way this scene is written, you're now thinking, oh, well, Kira and Riker were intimate. That's the way I'm looking at this. I mean, did anyone else see that or no? That's how it felt.

But she says she just, so Dach says I met him playing Dabo Quarks. Kira says, I just met him last night. And we talked, just talked. She makes a real point. We talked for three hours, but we just talked. And she says here, because I'm involved with someone else. Doesn't feel very sincere that. Those are the words of someone who's guilty to me.

Oh, really? Just covering over it. It's just like, oh, yeah. No, no, we just talked. wink, nudge. I don't know. I mean, I think it can go either way. Terry's performance is she doesn't believe that either.

She doesn't believe. See? There you go. Well, Riker and Cisco come out. This is where Dax asks, oh, did you forget about me? And she reminds him of, of Dobbo and Quarks, that she had to loan him money because he was losing. And he covers very quickly.

He says, oh, the night was mostly a blur for me. Yes, yes. Cisco does invite him for dinner any time with him and Jake. I love when Jonathan leaves with the awkwardly formal major, commander. Very nicely done. Yes, very awkward and clearly they're covering. Come on. Trying to be very formal.

Professional. Being professional. Yes. Yeah. But Dax and Kira share a very knowing look at the end of it. There's more there than professionalism. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we go out to the promenade next, and I think this is where we see Kira walking down

and bumps into Riker, who's rounding a corner. And those are always hard things to do as an actor where you're... Timing-wise? Timing-wise, where you're standing on a blind corner. And you have to kind of look at where's the dolly and time it out so that it looks accidental, but you capture it on screen. I thought they did a great job. It felt good.

But they check in with each other, what each other is up to. Riker's exploring the promenade. Kira says she's heading in for the night. And they start to head their separate ways. When Kira turns, she calls out to him, asked Riker if he would like a tour of the station. And he's very excited about this. And he mentions here he really wants to look at this new ship, the Defiant.

So off they go. Trouble begins Again, why they had to cut the other section out because this would be totally different from what he said to Cisco. So that was a good cut. Yes. Yep. We go to

the airlock outside of the Defiant. It's very well guarded. They've got to you know. Randy, who was the guard, Randy is the stand in for Odo. And I want you to see, if you can remember, but for those who watch this episode in the future, look at Randy,

standing by the door and then look at him when they come out later when they exit uh the defiant he hasn't moved to muscle he right exactly exactly the position i think they must have shot them both right after he oh probably probably like not one inch of movement he stayed exactly there i love and and again randy who was with us from day one until the very end yeah um randy was uh otto's do well they do pass through uh their palm prints their voice prints all of that yeah um again another quibble yeah not a quibble interesting yeah when they do that she puts her full palm on the on the on screen yeah he does this and i thought i have no problem with that but it tells me that the machine can recognize the person not just with the palm

but from fingertips as well. Yeah. But I found that interesting that why didn't continuity, why didn't Judy say, no, no, you have to put your palm? You both have to do the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

It is. Well, I know, like, I have used Clear at the airport before where you have to do your thumbprints or your eyes can't. And it's so sensitive. Oh, my gosh. Do you, I give up on the fingerprint with Clear. I said, just do the eyes. I cannot.

It doesn't register me. They could put some lotion on your hands. That'll work. I try it. No. It doesn't, just like Robbie, it doesn't register. This doesn't register me alive here. I feel like Clear doesn't know them alive either.

I'm not alive. Well, clearly in the future, they fix these scanners because you can do it any way you want. And it seems to work. Like this, like that. You can do it upside down the other way. And inside the Bridge of the Defiant, we see O'Brien working under a console. Kira comes in, calls out his name. And he pops out.

up. I love how he bumps his head. Is that a running thing? I feel like he's done that a number of times. He has, yeah. Yeah. I love it. I wonder if that's, well, I can tell you. I was about to say, I wonder if it's scripted, but I'm going to look and see if it's scripted. No, it's not scripted. From inside the panel, it says O'Brien's voice. Just putting a little extra work on the deflector targeting arrays, and then he takes his head out and sees Riker. Yeah, that's, so the The head bumping must be... Either Column or Cliff Bowles. Yeah.

Clip bowl. Yeah. That's great. When did they come back out, though? Miles comes back out. Oh, Miles comes back out. Yeah, I'm sorry. They don't come out.

That's when you see. O'Brien comes out and Randy hasn't moved up a muscle. He hasn't moved to muscle. Got it. Okay. Well, they come in. Miles bumps his head. Then he stands up, says hi.

He seems happy to see Riker. Yeah. But Riker is. not happy to see him no says i have nothing to say to you o'brien i think you know why oh and o'brien doesn't yeah it's ugly it's ugly it's one of the few times i've seen jonathan freaks be ugly or or riker be ugly yes and it's not explained and miles just sort of takes it the only hint we get that this is not true is when he stops outside of the airlock for a moment thinks about it and then continues on but it seems to me like tom riker is making this up

there's nothing miles hasn't done anything we don't know we don't know we don't know they did work together on the enterprise and we don't know what happened in the last moments or or even after the enterprise for that matter yeah was there something that happened and when i'm watching the episode for the first time this time i go you know is that play out? Is there something there that we'll find out about? And like Kira being overworked, it's just

forgotten. It's just there to move the plot, thankfully, to move the plot along. And it's important that O'Brien leave the... Yeah, I thought that was the only reason. He was playing a card of like, I'm going to pretend like,

I'm going to pretend that something bad happen or I'm angry about something. He won't know what it is. but I'll come on so strong that he will just accept it and leave that like he was trying to get him off the defiant so he could and at the same time playing his history that he was number one on the enterprise and o'brien was beneath him in hierarchy and therefore would take orders from his commander or from someone higher up one of his officers that all made sense to me that that was all perfectly all right that was good because it's so rare to see

riker being ugly i'm just going to refer to it as ruggly that's ruggedly very good and secondly robbie look at this this is thomas reiker or tom riker tom riker tom riker tom paris both rebels in the beginning of their life cycles basically that when we get to see them it's a parallel going on here. Tom's. Don't trust a Tom. No, that's not the lesson of this episode. No.

That will be yes. That would be the theme. Don't trust a Tom. Don't trust a Tom. That's my theme for the episode. Done. So, yeah, Miles does leave. He has a moment of confusion, but then moves on.

We come back into the bridge. They're looking at all these systems. Riker says he really wants to see how the whole system works together and has her turn on with her authorization. she turns on all the systems and he thanks her and pulls a phaser out stuns her uh-oh he's not the riker we know and love no something's up and two people beam in too yes yes i just want to say kura has zero luck with the marquee every time she's with the maki she gets stunned if you notice that one episode that they were on the planet with bernie was it bernie casey or whoever the heck

that was in that episode that she got stunned there too it's just yeah always getting stunned. So another quibble, so sorry, none of this episode would have happened if Kira hadn't bypassed security protocols. She should not have let him have access to what is basically Deep Space 9 ship. If she had not done that, none of this would have happened. And yet, there are no repercussions anywhere to her making a huge judgment mistake. I understand why she did it.

That's what the first part of this episode is about, setting up their relationship. I understand that. But she screwed up. She screwed up by doing this. Yeah. and there's like the being tired she's no longer tired by the way in fact she was back in ops i meant to say this she was back in ops with dach saying who's in yeah i thought she was not on duty i thought she was i forgot about that well clearly after having a little horizontal lumbata with riker that her you know

and she had to go back to bishir and get okayed yeah i suppose yeah i had fun it was i had a lot of you told me i had to go relax and have fun it wasn't one in the five by or two of the five that It wasn't one of those. It wasn't the jumba stick. Yeah. It's so lax. Maybe it was. Maybe the jubes stick helped in that, in that situation.

We don't know. Okay. But, but that's really important. But that aside, what a surprise to have Riker shoot, Kira. Shooter. But a huge surprise. That's a major, major, wonderful piece of writing. Yes.

And, well, the two, two maquis-dressed people also. also beam in. Hey Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. Well, that is why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. The coverage and speed are the same as I'm used to. But the savings, that is the difference. The savings are incredible. And now I'm saving all

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Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. We go up to ops. Riker calls ops. He says there's an accident, needs them to release the docking clamps before the core breaches. Cisco says, okay, we'll beam you out once you've cleared the station. They take off and they go to warp.

Here's the problem. When Riker calls ops, wouldn't they see the four life signs and know immediately? Because two people just beamed in into this very secure place. If Riker's calling going, oh, there's a core breach. Me and Kira are on the ship. We're going to go make it safe. Wouldn't they say, well, wait a minute. Who are the other two people with you?

Well, guess what? That job is normally Kira doing that. Look, she's the first officer, right? It's Dax, isn't it? It's either O'Brien. or Dax. It's not Kira, but it's either Dax or a Brian. Furthermore,

one of the things you forgot to mention that they do mention is that Kira's been hurt. Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah. He says, Kira's been hurt. It's been an accident. It's been an accident. She's been hurt. Okay. That's, that.

Beam her off now. Right. Beam her off now. It takes seconds to beam her out. We know that. Yeah. Beam her out. Get her to infirmity now. We don't know how bad. bad the hurt is. Beamer off now.

But if they went to look for life signs to beam her off, they would have seen four people on that ship. Like, yeah, that's a confusing oaken moment that, yeah. But wouldn't you have to look for the other life signs? Or does it automatically beep on your console? Oh, there's more than two people there. I mean, when we're on Zoom, it says... How many participants?

There's three of us on this. It tells me how many people. So you're using Zoom and you're extrapolating the technology of the future starting with Zoom. I would say if you open up your transporter app, it's going to say how many people, there's 12 people, which one do you want?

Sorry, the transporter app. They make a transporter app, don't they? So you go to iTunes? Find that? We sell them at quarks. We sell them at quarks. The Galaxy store.

You can find it on either Android or Apple, folks. Exactly. The beaming app. Well, Cisco does agree to release the clamps. He says, well, beam me off as soon as you've cleared. But instead, they take off. They go to warp and disappear. And they tried to reach out.

I think O'Brien comes in. Oh, it stacks. Yeah, Brian comes in. But, Brian comes in. He says, I can't get a lock. The Defiance shields are up. And then it goes to warp. So, yeah.

They had this plan worked out. Well, we cut back to the Defiance. after they've gone to warp. We see Riker. We still think it's... Will Riker. Will Riker. Thank you.

It's like, which one is it? We still think it's Will Riker. He orders them to go to head to the Badlands. He sits down in the command chair, rips off his sideburns. Right. Colitis says, you did it, Tom. I was like, what? But to me, it's so silly.

Whether he had those on or not, everyone would have still thought he was Will Riker. I started laughing. It was like, that's the one final piece of the puzzle to make this ruse work. Like a little piece of sideburn right there. They must have done that in the TNG episode, like had Will Riker with sideburns and his double without so that you could tell. It's very possible. Okay. Another little quibble.

And this goes right to your character. Oh, boy. Yes. So this lady, who's the McKee pilot. Yes. Kalita, that we think is in? Collider. Collider.

Collider or collida. Kalida somehow is quite good at piloting a ship she has never been on before. That's cutting in. That they have certainly never seen before because this is a prototype shit. And she's able to take it to warp and maneuver it in seconds. And I go, really? Okay. Little pinprick, little pinprick.

Shouldn't there be like a manual that she has to refer to her? Yes, you're right. This is a prototype. There are no other ships like this. I'm going to say devil's advocate, the marquee have intercepted the actual subspace transmission of the operations manual of how to operate this thing. They've hacked the system. Okay, they're hackers.

Keep that in mind in about two hours when I ask you another question. Okay, fine, fine, go. We go to the ward room back on the station. The team is meeting there. there, Odo explains that Riker was in a trans... DuCOTS there. DuCOTS there. Okay.

We hear from Collider. It's going to be six hours until we get to the Badlands. Yes. Okay. Which is on our way to Cardassia. Well, they're on their way to the Badlands, which is where the Marquis hangout. Yeah.

Okay. Ducat either is visiting and playing a Dhabo quarks. Coincidentally, is there during the six hours, you know, that it's going to take to get to the Badlands. Yes. He's been invited in, and he just happens to be there during this six-hour course. When I assume he's got responsibilities, presidential command, that doesn't keep him in Quarks

all day long. That's another little pinprick. Yes, you're right. Where did Ducotte come from? There's absolutely zero explanation of how. Was he on some kind of ship that was nearby, coincidentally, maybe? Yes, you can make that excuse, absolutely. Let's go with that, Robbie.

Okay, well, Ducat's there. She's there. But, but, okay, let's say he's not, I'm sorry. No, that's right. But let's say he's nearby on a ship. And they don't explain to him why he should leave his responsibilities on the ship and come into Deep Space Nine, because he doesn't know why he's. at the beginning of the scene.

We just need you to come in. Could you come in? Could you just leave whatever you're doing and come in? Sure. Let me just brush up my makeup here and I'll be there. Look, Descartes was on his way to Riza too. That's it. Okay.

Everybody's on their way to Rye. It's it. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, he's there. Odo's explaining that Riker was in a, Will Riker was in a transporter accident and another version of him was created

named Thomas Riker. And they tell Ducott that, Thomas Riker might be a marquee because he was starting to express these political opinions and Dukot is furious. I'm going to have to say Mark Alamo. When he says, Cisco says Thomas Riker is a member of the Maki and Mark Limo, he was the most, the biggest, most theatrical what? What?

It was just wonderful. I loved it. He's very good in this episode. He's very good in this episode. As I watch these episodes, I have more and more. respect for my old friend Mark Alain. Oh, God, he's brilliant. Okay, keep going.

And he has to act through much more prosthetics than I ever had to wear. What? But he doesn't have teeth, though. Get the teeth. His neck is restricted. It is covered up. He's in a wet suit. His costume is much more cumbersome than mine ever was.

He's got a lot more to deal with. Okay. Wow. He's very good in this. I hear you. Yeah, they tell Duccott that Thomas Riker might be a marquee. Duccaut's furious He can't believe the Defiant

is now in Maaki hands and says The Central Command will think that Starfleet wanted this all along And Starfleet I'm sorry Cardassian Central Command is going to send an entire fleet And Cisco says you know

We can't go to war Let me help you get it back I helped design it I was there I know its vulnerabilities And Ducott says okay Come back to Cardassia and help me destroy the Defiant if you want to prevent this from, you know, escalating very quickly.

We cut inside the Define Cabin. Kira's awake now. Thomas Riker apologizes. She says you're not going to get very far. And he's very confident in this scene in this whole plan. He's always confident. Yes. Jonathan is always confident.

He's like, I think I'll get a lot farther than they think I will. And then there's a call. They're at the rendezvous point, so he leaves. He didn't even lock the door, did he? He just, like, walked out. Yeah, I wrote that. down and then I went yeah yeah he locked a door I just didn't see it I mean but we sort of understand that in the scene that you just referenced we know that she's locked in but but but I

thought he makes no effort to to make us understand that she secured correct yeah correct but he did he did so we can forgive that we can forgive well he goes on the bridge there's other maquis ships that have joined them at this rendezvous point and they're going to head. Other marquee ships. Yes. Where'd they go later on? When they go? Because it's just a defiant doing all attacking. Well, does, but they get, some people get beamed aboard. That's, we're ready to beam some people aboard. Yes. Is what colitis says. And, and, and although I don't ever see anybody else, but that's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Michael and Shannon, because they're lovebirds and they're married. They told everyone

They're on a cruise They're going to the Greek islands They wanted to their own private time And they told the other guys That hang out in the back cargo bay So you don't see them ever But what happens to the other ships The other ship is in the cargo bay

The other ship is in cargo bay That's a little hard to believe All right so some other ships have joined Because Tomol says The rest of the team's ready Lower the shields And beam them aboard Yeah

And then Tamal says, the Maki ships are heading for the border, Tom. Colitis. Callitis. I call her colitis. That's a intestinal problem. Yeah, please don't call her that. Colita. Yes, so they're ready to go.

Course is laid in. We cut back to Cardassia, beautiful shot of the outside of Cardassia. Nice map painting. Nice map painting. We have a commander's log, start date 484-67.3. Cisco says, Gald Dukot and I arrived on Cardassia Prime. I'm about to do something which goes against 20 years of Starfleet training,

help an enemy hunt down one of our own ships. I had a nitpick here where here's Cisco in Cardassia, where there's this very fragile peace treaty. He hasn't told Starfleet anything. There's been, he's got no orders or permission. he's doing this all rogue. Yeah, that sort of bothered me. And remember, he's not Picard.

He's not a captain. He's not an admiral. He's a commander. And you're absolutely right. He's doing this all on his own. He's risking a treaty without any direction. Approval or support. No.

That we know of. I think we would know about it. I think at some point he would have said to Gall-Ducat, well, Starfleet Command has told me blah, blah, blah. Because we see in a later scene, Ducaut does that. I can't give you my word. I have to go talk to Central. I have to go to the council.

Yeah. They couldn't squeeze it in in the 42 minutes. They couldn't squeeze it in. This is a two-parter. It is a two-parter. These scenes should have been there. I agree. I agree.

We go into the Cardassian War Room. It looks like NORAD or something. Did you write that down? Is that your note? Kadesi of Norad? Yeah, I think it is. Oh, nice. Yeah, it does look like Norad, doesn't it?

It does. It looks like war games. Looks like the old movie from the 80s war games. Yeah, that was on stage four where they created that set, the war room. Oh, cool. Well, Duccott explains this is Command Central for all of their forces, and then a woman arrives. And Duccott introduces her as Horinus from the obsidian. You're saying her highness.

Her highness. She's treated like that. He does say Corrinus. That's how Martin said it. Yes. We were going to say it that way. Okay. Well, she's from the obsidian order.

And she rudely walks around the war room and tells everyone, lock this down, lock that down, lock that down. All the classified stuff right in front of Cisco. Like, she's not even trying to hide the fact that she doesn't trust him. Is she being wrugly right now to everybody? She has been ugly. She demands from Cisco that he described all the capabilities of Defiant and Cisco. Which is why he's there, which is what he said he was there for. Yeah.

He begins with the cloaking information. Yes. And then she basically says, oh, well, I'm glad that you decided to share that. They already, she already knew about it. Yep. And DuCott's angry because he didn't know about it. He's like, well, why didn't you share that with us? Why didn't the Obsidian Order share that with us?

So you start to see very quickly this conflict between the obsidian order and Central Command. And we also see it in the prior episode that we reviewed second skin with Nana as a Cardassian. We see the conflict between Central Command and Obsidian Order there in that prior episode. Well, she already knew about this. DuCott's angry. Why didn't you share it? We do learn that the cloak was only, they agreed to only use this cloaking device in the gamma quadrant. only against the founders and all of that.

And that's the only way they were allowed to have the cloaking device. It was only used in the gamma quadrant. It is obviously a reciprocal treaty between Federation and the Romulans. So the cloaking device in this episode is being used in the alpha quadrant. Okay, that's what Tom is doing. doesn't rom the romans have to be notified of that you would think so otherwise it's going to be held to pay from the romulans you're this isn't what we agreed to yeah yeah it's a complicated episode it is if you really break it down the way that armin's breaking it down you see all the

holes um but i will say it's a great episode yes but i love the episode yeah it's a great episode and And it's a great episode because of Jonathan Frakes. Yeah, yeah. Because of the writing, for the most part, aside from these holes, is very good. Cliff Bulls has shot it really well. Lots of performers are doing a great job. And I was riveted when I wasn't taken out of it. Unfortunately, I was taken out often, actually.

Yeah, yeah. Wouldn't it be interesting if the Defiant, basically, they programmed in, like, parental controls for your kids watching media where it only works in the gamma quadrant and the alpha quadrant the parental controls kick in it doesn't work there's no there's no or the Romulan it's Romulan technology right

the Romulan the Romulan parental control kicks in it doesn't work in the alpha quadrant that would have solved a lot but they didn't do it would have helped and then Riker wouldn't have stolen the thing because it wouldn't have worked in the alpha quadrant okay well Cisco does admit that or lets them know that the Dominion was able to penetrate

the cloaking device by using some kind of anti-proton beam. And maybe if they can figure that out before Riker attacks, then they can stop the Defiant and capture it. So Cisco's playing ball. He's doing exactly what he said. He is. He's giving them information freely. He's not playing games.

We go back to the Defiant. They're approaching the security perimeter. Riker says go to alert. They cloak. They arm weapons. inside Kira's cabin she's getting very sneaky doing something clever

with the replicator back on the bridge they're preparing for this battle five minutes until they're in sensor range and then we go back in the war room they've got their

buddies there and they're going to be in Cardassian sensor range in five minutes inside the Cardassian war room aka NORAD they get a perimeter

alert they see the defined signature right up on the screen we see a big Starfleet symbol. I love the, you know, view screens for dummies where they have like Starfleet symbols. There's our Starfleyship. Here's our Cardassian ship. Another quibble. Yes.

Sorry. Yes, we see the Starfleet symbol. We know that that's the defined. Yeah. Okay. Everything else, one would assume, is in Cardassian. Yeah. Yeah. And yet, Sisko can read Cardassian and says, this doesn't look right yes that uh that's a good that's a good pick um that screen that screen that really big view screen was actually a miniature and when they shot anyone in front of it they shot them in front of a blue screen and used that um that image really put on the miniature yes that's oh that's cool hmm yeah very cool well they see the defined signature up there yeah it starts to attack outpost 61 Cisco's suspicious. He's like, why aren't they cloaked? He asks for the sensor information. That's what you're talking about, Armin. So the sensor information comes up in Cardassian. DuCott tells all the

Cardassian ships to follow what looks like the defiant signature. Follow that ship into the demilitarized zone. Yeah. And Cisco says, no, no, no, this is a trick. This is a trick. The real defiant decloaks at this moment and attacks Outpost 47, not Outpost 61. So it was a trick. a decoy um it destroys the outpost 47 it re let us remember that yes it destroys outpost 47 yes riker under riker's command killed a lot of people killed a lot bunch of cardassians right yeah yeah yeah yeah but that's brushed over you know you have 47 is gone right yeah the whole out the whole outpost it's all gone but we've you know in the united states there's 50 states right yeah so we lose one state we lost one state we wouldn't do i don't think the united states would

have a problem with that if someone came in and blew up a state exactly and and nobody at central command seems concerned about the loss of life but now granted it's cardassian we can understand that but but yeah i went really you just lost a whole settlement yeah yeah but cisco and his words of wisdom are very, they fall on Karinus to the point that she's super impressed. I mean, she thinks he's amazing. He's figured it out. She is very, very great. She compliments Cisco. She's like, oh, you know, you should be commended. Super great work. I only wish we had someone here with such keen tactical instincts who could have prevented this invasion of our territory. Which is a dig on Ducod. It's a show. And a wonderful slow burn on Michael Alamo.

as he listens. Does he play it? He plays it? Oh, God, I didn't even notice that. Oh, and it's really quite wonderfully subtle, but you see it. It's a really nice moment for Mark. I'll have to go back and watch that. We cut back to the bridge of the Defiant Rikers accessing the damage.

They're going to head to get some repairs, I guess. Yeah, talk about... I guess they've been hit. Yeah. Some minor damage to the outer fall. They're going to go to a shipyard at Omechla 3. And before he can finish what he's planning on doing, we'll let that be the place that there's a big explosion.

Yeah. Riker calls for a report. Two plasma conduits blew out. Where, Riker says, Tammal says, deck three, section 15, crew quarters. Crew quarters. So then some of more people were killed, clearly. Yes?

No, no. No, no. The explosion. It's where they've been holding Kira. Kira. Oh, they've been holding Kira. So she's sneaky. She left, right?

No, no, she never left. She didn't leave. That's why we know the door was locked. This is what I said before. This is how we know the door was locked because she can't get at, this is why she does what she does because she can't get out of the crew quarter. She can't get out of her room. That's why she had that panel up and she's digging in some kind of panel.

That panel is in what? What is that panel part of, pardoned an anatomy of teacher? What is that panel? What was that a replicator? A replicator. a food replicator. Professor Shimmerman? Yes.

May I go to the washroom? Thank you. Somehow the replicator is connected to a vital system in the ship. Here's my favorite moment of the scene at the very end when Riker says it looks like Major Kira has been busy. Jonathan Fraggs, having done Star Trek for seven years or more, knew how to walk from the chair down to the front of the set into a dramatic close-up to deliver his final line of that act. It was beautifully.

Without looking at its marks as he walked forward. Yes. Oh, he's a pro. He's a pro. He's a pro. And I'm not being sarcastic. He is. No, he is a pro.

He literally is. And he knows what he sells. He knows what he sells. He's confident in that. And it does sell. and people appreciate it. I appreciate it. What was that reality show that he hosted

that has got all the funny clips around? Believe it or not? Believe it or not? Believe it or not, I thought. Yeah, what was his catchphrase on that? Have you ever something? It was something like, have you ever done something? He had a catchphrase.

He did. Yes, he knew what he was selling in that. Yes, he became iconic hosting that little. show. I think he hosted a couple of shows, I feel. There was one show he hosted. I don't know if it was the Ripley's believe it or not or something else. But my agent called me one day, the second

season of our show. And said, hey, somebody reached out. They're interested in you hosting the show, whatever it was. And I was like, amazing. Yes, please. Yeah. And they said, okay, well, we'll be in touch and we'll talk to them. And then I didn't hear anything. And like a month later, he said, whatever happened to that show they wanted me to host? They said, oh,

got Jonathan Frakes to do it. I don't know if it was the rip by Franks. Oh. I wanted to be a host so bad. Oh, Frakis. How dare you. Hurt Robbie and his hosting career. My goodness. I could have had a catchphrase.

You could have had a catchphrase. I think it would have been Cupid Detective. Yes, that's what I was about the same. Armin was on the same page as me. Thank you. That's his catchphrase. I'm the Cupid Detective. Okay, so we cut back into the cabin after our little act break.

There's some damage to the bulkhead there. She's got some, Kira's got some minor burns being treated by. Does she have a hole in her suit? It was more than a minor, there was like a whole hole in her suit. Did you notice that? Yeah. Yeah, it was a good, it was a plasma burn. But you'll notice there's no redness in the skin.

On her skin. You know, Bajorans have very, very thick skin. that's clearly what is actually up here yeah well she's got some minor injuries um but whatever she did to these plasma conduits she's prevented them from cloaking they can't use this cloaking through a replicator through a replicator riker is gonna uh he says i'm gonna bypass your sabotage it'll take me 30 minutes he's so confident he's got them hidden inside safely inside a nebula so they won't be seen detected yeah and he says to her that he that he thought she would understand his fight and she says well you know a lot more people are going to

die from your actions than ever did in the border raids and and have and have wiped it we've just wiped out what settlement four entire where an entire outpost was is eliminated now yeah yeah yeah so they have a little argument here is this where she says he wants to be a hero she does talk about that at some point yeah which i who says that i kira says it okay yeah yeah i yeah i don't I don't know if it's this scene or another, but she does get on to that point. Oh. I shouldn't find my notes here. Yeah, Kira, he tries to compare his fight to her fight on Bayjore.

Right. And she says, no, I fought the Kardashians because they invaded my home. You don't even live in the Demelotri Zone. You don't even have family there. Why are you in this fight? So he's trying to compare his fight to hers. And she's like, nope, she's not going to have it. Yeah.

I found it fast. And I appreciate it a great deal. This is not a nitpick that she picks that you just want to be a hero. And that's my quibble with TNG, actually. It's that everybody's a hero. Everybody's a hero. And I thought, oh, that's the writer's room having a little gotcha moment against the TNG. The TNG tone.

Although, Ira and some of the others were TNG. But Ira was always an iconoclass, so he was always fighting those fights. But, yeah, I thought that's the writers deflating the balloon of heroic activity in TNG characters. Because there's nothing to show us that. We haven't seen him be a hero up until this moment. If anything, it's been just the opposite. That makes sense. Yeah.

Well, we go back inside the war room, aka Norad. Cisco's trying to figure out the next move. Duccott is not paying much attention. He's thinking about his son's birthday, he tells Cisco. He promised to make time for his 11-year-old son, do something special on his birthday. And Cisco and Ducott kind of share a bonding moment here. They talk about the work that they do

and how it affects their kids. Talks about Jake. And Cisco says, you know, I hope someday when they grow up, that they'll understand why we did what we did. And the scene ends with Dukot saying, you know, all my son is going to remember is how a federation officer invaded his home. And he'll look back at all of that with hatred. And that's so sad. So, yeah.

Some of the best writing in this episode, and there's a lot of it. Some of the best writing. This scene. I agree. I love the Cisco Ducat stuff. The show is always about family. And here again, we have an interjection of Duccott. family. We've been watching

Cisco and his family, but of DuCott's family and the warmth that he has for them. Family was always a major theme on our show. Yeah. I want to just say, for Mark Olimo, if anyone else was playing Dakot and going through this scene talking

about his son, I would say, yeah, yeah, whatever. But with Dakot, when he's talking about his son, everything, every line, every bit of dialogue out of his mouth is literally electric. Like, I'm just sitting there, I'm waiting on baited breath. I'm like, is something else going to happen right now is like that's going to be really messed up right now but he's just telling it was full the performances were really full and the writing is strong and i liked it a lot

in fact and this is going to be a bit of a spoiler for me but this scene of cisco and and ducotte sort of bonding over common experiences i wish we had seen that with kira and riker because this whole Romance, relationship, whatever, feels so shallow and unmotivated to me. I'm not sure. That's why I thought, oh, they're both workaholics. That'll be the thing that they're bonding over. But they never do. Like, we never see them have a scene like this.

Right. Where they connect on some level. Yeah. We go back to the defiant bridge. First, we see space and the defiant cloak is now working. and they fixed it wow yep well I said 30 minutes so 30 minutes obviously gone by

and they fixed it all right it's all those people on the Defiant working overtime that we haven't seen exactly the dozens of people by the way on the station so that it doesn't happen again yes exactly not on the station not on the Define sorry they're heading

they're heading to the Omega Shipyard and Kira's wonders why are we going there to Omechla 3 and Riker says they're building a fleet to attack the Marquis and the Cardassians are building a fleet to attack the maquis

and Kira's kind of digging at Ryker in the scene like he's not a very good terrorist. This is where she says you know you're just trying to be a hero. If you were a good terrorist you would just attack them at every outpost until they begged for surrender.

Terrorists don't get to be heroes. Right. And that's it. This was a nice scene. I mean, it was a conflict scene. It wasn't a bonding scene. You know, it was definitely a scene about the conflict between them and the different points of view. But I like this hero idea. For sure. And yet, again, not a quibble, just a comment. And yet, the, in my opinion, biggest hero on the show is a terrorist. And that's cure. To me, Kira is the hero of the show. There are many heroes, but for me, the main hero is Kira. And she was a terrorist.

And here's one of the few times she actually references her past life where she was a terrorist, where she killed people and blew things out. We go back to the war room after that Kira Riker feelings moment and hero discussion. We go to the war room, aka Norad. Cisco sees that each attack was designed to draw them away from one sector, the Arias sector. And Dukot starts to order one ship to go see, but then Karinus says, nope, nope, no ships are going there. Corrinus has been kind of quiet for a while, but now suddenly she's got very strong feelings. Oh, yeah.

She says that sector is under control of the obsidian order. He defies her, basically. he's going to send a ship there to see what's going on. She says they will destroy any ship that enters the, what's it called? Arise. Arise. Arise. Arise.

Arise. Arise. Starfleet, nobody's going near there. You know, it's just obsidian order. It's just so long to say. I feel like when it comes to Kardashians, they're very efficient. They just should call it O squared. That's it, okay, because it's too much.

No, right, yeah. O-O-O-squared. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, yes. Uh-oh, is a man. The O-O-O-O-O-O's, yes. I love it. After a little break, we come back in the same spot. Dukot is re-entering NORAD, A.K. the War Room.

I love this opening shot at the top of this act. It's a high, high-crane shot. Very high. The whole thing, and it falls right down into a two-shot. into the dialogue beautifully, beautifully simply designed, but it's really nice. Duccott says the Obsidian Order is not sharing information with anyone. And that's when one of the soldiers, the Cardassian soldiers, says the Krakson, the ship called the Kraksen, just sent a message.

They found an unusual neutrino signature could be the damage defiant. And Cisco says, well, if it is the defiant, they're in a position to head straight to the Araya system. And Dukot still doesn't want to pull away ships from other sectors just to chase a neutrino signature. So he's not quite convinced. He'll send the one ship, but not all of them. Now we go back to the bridge of the defiant Rikers preparing to make a run for the

Araya system. Kira warns him that they're going to see your warp signature. They're going to send all of Cardassie's fleet is going to chase you. And Riker says, well, they can chase as much as they want. as long as they don't catch me. Very confident. Very, very confident, as Jonathan Frakes does very well.

Yes. Confident charm. I like to see him play a non-confident character like in the live... Oh, it would be interesting. I wonder if he ever did that. Like he really made and just like frail and yeah. Timid and scared.

I never saw him play timid and scared, but I haven't seen him play a non-confident character. In a play? No, no, no, in a TV show. Oh, really? Oh, really? Okay. Care to share? What was it? Because we both did it.

It wasn't Buffy. No, it wasn't Buffy. Nathan Phillyen show, the... Castle. The detective. Castle. So he directed an episode of Castle, and he put himself in the episode. Wow.

And he played an actor who was on the science fiction show signing autographs. I love it. It wasn't timid and scared, but he was, he was not the hero, Riker that we were used to. Oh, interesting. Okay. Interesting.

Well, back in the war room, they do detect this warp signature. Duccott orders all the ships to give chase now. Duccott's all in. He thinks he's found him. Back on the bridge, Tom Riker sees he is being chased, but they're not going to catch him

until they're in the Orion system. And he wants, once they're in the Raius system to do, a full scan of the system and that's important the scan is important because it's going to be some leverage later on yeah he wants that scan done now before they reach the system before they reach it yeah they're close enough that they can get all the information they need and i guess the defiant has better scanners than other ships another quibble which i will get to in a moment a major quibble okay Right. Okay, well, Dukot tells Karinus to report that, you know, he could have stopped.

Duqq could have stopped all of this if she hadn't prevented it. If she had interfered, yes. Yeah. And she seems very confident now. She's got the, Frank's confidence. She's like, they're never going to reach Arias. Yeah, she says they will never reach Arias. You can count on that. Oh, she's pulling a Riker right now. He's very confident. Very confident. it. And that's when we see three more Cargassian ships arrive and DuCada's surprised by this. He's like

well, that's not our ships. That must be the obsidian order, right? Right. They appear in the array system. He doesn't make that assumption. He says to her whose ships are these, Carinas. He doesn't know if it's obsidian or not. He doesn't. His line is

whose ships are these. Yeah. Does she just smile? Isn't that? She doesn't, she doesn't say anything as far as my notes say but but but cisco does speak and says i thought the obsidian order didn't have any ships correct yeah dukott says they're not supposed to they're explicitly forbidden to have any military ships of any kind yeah and karanis just smiles uh superior walks out oh yeah yeah yeah so karanis pulls a double riker is what she does she does super confident very confident well back on the deviant kira's telling riker that he doesn't stand a chance it's suicide

and an experienced starfleet officer would would know when to retreat that he's this is a suicide mission and he says well maybe will riker would do what you're saying but not me he's not going to do it not tom paris riker that's right and then she's kind of calling his ego out here a little she's like oh you just want to set yourself apart you just want to be known as a hero no this is the part we were talking about before right where he no this is different calls him out oh this is another call this is where she says she says you want to be you want to be held differently than will right than will right you want to set yourself apart you want to make it even more of a hero than him yes yeah yes and it seems to get to him in his performance like she's starting to crack crack his

armor a little bit with these repeated sort of, you know, debates. And one little quibble, just going back a little, because you're talking about she's getting to him and you're absolutely right. Why is she on the bridge? If you knew that she had already blown up part of the ship through a replicator, what damage could she do on the bridge where the real controls are? Why would you keep her on the bridge? He didn't. And then to other people there who, as far as we know, have no phasers, no way. Why don't you keep her with the 25 people that you beamed over down in the cargo bay or wherever? It's a very simple answer, both of you, because they had nookie a day ago.

So that's why. Ah, I see. Okay. Well, go back to the Cardassian war room. Cisco tells Duccott he should offer Riker, Tom Riker, a surrender. Yeah. And that way, Dukot can learn what is in the defined sensor logs, what the obsidian order is hiding. That's the trade, right?

The sensor logs for the scapegoat, which is Thomas Riker, and then the double deal is he cannot be sentenced to death, was what Cisco comes up with. Yeah. I'm going to get to this in a moment. Yes, keep going. Yeah, he says, Riker, Cisco says, Riker will accept this offer of surrender. to save Kira's life. He mentions that in the scene, which I thought was interesting. Cisco says that?

Cisco says that, yeah. Oh, yeah. Why? Rikers already shot her. He does, well, he doesn't know that. He doesn't know that. He doesn't know that. He doesn't know that.

Armin. Dukot says, I'd be happy to accept his surrender, but I doubt he'd be willing to hand over his long. Sisko's goes, well, he will if you agree to release Major Kira, the ship and the Machi, Major Kira, the ship and the maquis. yeah yeah so with the marquee to be turned over to the federation to be tried i mean that's the part of the that's right that's right yeah yeah cisco says he'll try and get tom riker to agree to all this but only if duccott can promise they won't execute him so that's the final yeah this is coming

from a man who may or may not have known riker for a long time i'm not saying he hasn't right but there's no yeah there's no footage that shows us that they've had a long relationship no But he understands where Riker's going to give up his life. He understands it. And it turns out he's right. But that one, again, a little tiny pinprick. Yeah. And it's interesting because Duccott, after, you know, after Cisco says, let's make sure that he doesn't get the death sentence, it's Duccott that says, well, I'll have to clear that with the Ministry of Justice.

So Ducat is looking, he's the obedient, Cardassian, he's going through the right channels, whereas Cisco is just, he's the Maverick, a rebel. The Federation knows nothing about what he's doing right now. Well, we go back to the Defiant Bridge. They're approaching the first cruiser when Thomas Riker orders them to fire. They take that one out, but then three more ships arrive. So now there's five obsidian order ships in front of them, 10 Cardassian fleet behind them. Riker says resume course. That's when Dukot and Cisco call.

And Dukot offers the surrender to Riker. says no one will be harmed. Reikers doesn't understand why. He asks why. And Cisco says, Dukot wants the sensor logs. But also someone must pay for this. And Reiker says, me?

He knows it's him. And Cisco says, yes, but you won't be executed. You'll just spend your life in a labor camp. Riker needs to think about it for a second. And that's when Kira, you know, encourages him to surrender that this mission is over. don't kill your entire crew and so

Thomas Riker agrees and he's going to surrender to the ships behind him that's Ducotte's fleet go surrender to the first ship behind you and Duccott says they'll surround you with their shields they'll protect you from the other ships

so Riker reverses course Collida and Michael's character had been part of this mission from the very beginning yeah no discussion with them about no they want to surrender this mission no no discussion with the other

people on the ship who we haven't seen but it's all up to riker and and the other two who risked their lives and have gone along with everything that that riker has suggested nothing to say are you okay with this or do you want to go on i mean it's been a suicide mission ever since they they were being followed and kira had a scene where she told him you're not going to going to get through she did that 10 minutes ago and and they've agreed to that so so nothing no discussion with the other that's what i'm saying at the very top of our show i said i wish that she had been given collida had been given more lines this is certainly a place where i would have liked to have heard to hear that's work yeah yeah that makes sense riker says laying a course for the

crackson they start to reverse course we cut down to the war room and ducotte see the ships that were in front of him, basically the Obsidian Order ships, and Dukot says, those are faster than any Keldin-class ship I've ever seen. What is going on in that system? So clearly there's this implication that the Obsidian Order has some major secrets going on there. And they have a shipyard. They have a shipyard on that planet in the Uriah system. That's what they have. And they're building the most advanced, fastest, most deadly Cardassian warships possible, that no one has ever even seen these capabilities. But someone has seen them.

The Defiant has seen. The Defiant has seen. And the McKee that saw them. That set this mission. Outpost 47 saw them, but they can't talk about it. They can't talk about it. No. They're vaporized.

Back at the Defiant, they do rendezvous with the Crackson. Inside the war room, Dukat says, you know, they're not going to fire. These obsidian ships are not going to fire on a Cardiff. ship. They can't. He knows that because the obsidian order is not supposed to have any ships whatsoever. So he knows that the obsidian ships that don't exist are not going to fire. Not going to fire on their own Kardashian and create a civil war. Yeah. So the obsidian ships move off. Riker sends the sensor logs to the Cran. And then he turns command over to Kira. And she promises

to try and get him out, try and help him because she's in love. Even though. Why? Why? This is a nippet. This is a huge problem for me. Why? Why does she say, I'll get you out? Don't worry. We'll get you out. He has killed off settlement 47. He has stolen a ship. He has broken all the treaties that exist. He shot her with his phaser. He shot her with his phaser. They've argued for 40 minutes. But she's going to try and get him out. But they had talked for three hours. They talked for three hours. on Deepest Face not. Remember, talked, okay? I'm just going to say right now, this was the best nooky that Kira's ever had. But Ryle is nothing in comparison to

evil Riker or to Thomas Riker. I'm sorry, I just could not buy, but we'll get you out. Okay. Everything in, I felt very Odo-like. That is not right. That is not happening, yeah. Yeah, it seems wrong. He may not deserve death,

but he does not deserve to be freed rescued he has committed crimes and and he should pay for them yeah he also doesn't deserve to give her the classic riker kiss that he gives her when he wraps her and wraps her up and yeah and she doesn't object at no no after being shot by him of all the arguments she doesn't put she's quite capable of pushing him away she doesn't do that no and i'm going oh that's the riker effect that's the riker stronger than any phaser than you know here's the other riker she's been riker she's been riker yeah here's the other riker effect so they have the kiss thomas riker beams out kira goes over she's been given command she goes over to the command chair sits down did you notice how she sits

it's like freaks a little manspready a little like oh nice yes i thought he's taking on his characteristic he takes on like the writer style when she sat down in the command chair i gotta say if that was if that was the thought process of nanah visitor herself and prepping for that that final scene i think that's great i love i thought i would venture to say you're right garrett yeah i would venture to say knowing what nanah thinks about her character that that that might have been thought out by her yeah that was a choice a good choice did either of you did either of you notice that there were some changes in the Defiant Bridge set at all? No.

Yeah. So Jonathan West, the DP, had made some requests for different paint schemes and different lighting points inside the bridge because he felt that would make it look better for the episode. And this is the beginnings of him

being satisfied with that bridge. Oh, great. Having the perfect lighting, basically. Great. Great. Now, before we leave the episode, I want to talk about another major quibble that i have okay so why does reiker get a soft sentence why is the defiant return to starfleet why did the crew get pardoned because the defiant has censor logs of the obsidian orders work in this area okay that's that's what they're saying now my question is and really boggled my imagination

we know that Tuccott has sent three cruisers into this area why couldn't their sensors pick up the same information oh boy yeah

because they have cruisers right there that's a huge hole close enough to protect the defiant when it turns around and hides with it why are they not picking up the same information that is such a huge

poker piece in this negotiation that Duccott is a smart man so is the obsidian lady well she wouldn't be it but Duccott is smart and I'll just send my ships in and get that information and we keep Riker and we keep everybody and we keep

the defiant and find out how that tough little ship operates that's what would happen in the military exercise if you capture a foreign people's aircraft you want to investigate how they work yeah yeah Yeah, it does seem strange that the Defiant was not in a particularly special spot

to get the sensor information because the fleet, Descartes' fleet was right behind them. Right. So they could have gotten the same thing. Okay. All right. Also, just a little quick little factoid. Quantum torpedoes are used for the first time by a Federation Starship in this episode. We never see a quantum torpedo until this is a tough little ship.

She's a tough little ship. Quantum torpedoes, wow. Although you can access the cloaking device through the replicator, but it's a tough little ship. But she's a tough little ship. It's funny because Thomas Reiker calls it a tough little ship. William Reiker calls it a tough little ship in the feature film Star Trek First Contact.

And right here and now, Quark calls her a tough little ship. Yeah, it's quirked as well, right? Wow. Well, there you go. But I like this episode a lot. I did too. I did too. I really did.

Well, yeah. It's interesting because Frick says that he always felt that the character of Riker, Thomas Riker, should have returned to DS9 and that there should have been an episode where Kira fulfilled her promise to rescue. Of course he did. The producers, however, seemed to be uninterested in finishing the story arc as in the fourth season pitch letter to freelance writers. Tom Riker appeared on the list of subjects that they were not interested in hearing about. That's funny. It's like, wah, wamp. I don't know if they had the same qualms that I did, but he needs to pay for his crimes.

Yeah. He's a bad guy. He's not a hero. He's a bad guy. No. Yeah. All right. Let's talk about theme, lesson, moral of this episode.

Robbie, what do you have? This was a tough one for a theme or a lesson for me, but here's what I wrote down. Sometimes being a real hero means doing things differently than you first planned. so sometimes you know i might i might think oh i know what i need to do to to be a hero in this situation or to have a the right outcome the just outcome but along the path i might discover something where i got to i got to make a change and it's important to be able to recognize you know when you need to change course and i think tom riker realize that that's it's the lesson to me okay great arman

I also have a theme that revolves around a hero, but it's a different tact. Jonathan Frakes makes the ladies swoon, and no matter the Riker, he has all the essential qualities of a hero. I thought you're going to rhyme with swoon. Swoon? He has all the essential qualities. He has all the essential qualities of a boon. I don't know. A boon or buffoon.

I want to the tail. Yeah, but I think hero is what I'm, I mean, this hero is the theme. He is a hero. And we can forgive him all the little nitpicks that I've gone on about. Yeah. Because he is a hero. And we feel that in our bones.

And it's not just a character. It's the way Jonathan plays him. Okay. My lesson comes from Kira, basically. And I'm going to say, don't let your emotions rule you. and those emotions being passionate because that is what made her gaga that's what made her

ignore all protocols and allow him to have command of the defiance. So yeah, don't let your emotions rule you because sometimes we can get swept away by emotions, especially fashion. Yeah. Okay.

Well, our Patreon Paul theme slash moral slash lesson of this episode is submitted by Paul J. A good leader knows when to quit while you're ahead, especially if others are involved. I got a lot ahead. he's not ahead

he's in the bottom and one last question one last question not a nitpick just a question what did reiker want to do with the defiant if he had not been stopped was he going to go try to destroy the obsidian orders secret shipbuilding

that's what I thought I don't know okay I thought he was headed there I think that's right but I hadn't gone that far I think you're right but but they must have if they knew what was being built there obviously they must have known it was a slightly suicide mission all of them yeah they almost have signed up for a suicide mission yeah but thank you that i couldn't figure out what it was and you spelled it out thank

okay i think so i think they had some intelligence that that there was uh you know these these ships or weapons being built in the sector that we're going to help you know help the cardassians in some way the outposts the outposts yeah the the I think so. I think you're right. Thank you. All right. All right.

Well, thank you, Arm and Zimmerman for joining us. Sorry. Sorry to be such a bugbear. But you like the episode. Be a commugent. Yeah. But you like the episode. But you liked the episode.

I did like the episode. I did too. I did too. It was, it had a lot of wonderful elements. I love the pace of it. Thank you, Cliff Bowl. I love the performances of everybody, in it um i love the fact that i had a quarter of a day's work i love so much to love so much to

really a lot of good it's a it's a very powerful story if you just squint and don't pay attention to yes yeah exactly i hear you well uh yes thank you so much to arman for joining us for this recap and discussion of defiant join us next time when Arman will be joining us again for the episode fascination. So thank you for everyone for tuning in for all of our Patreon patrons. Please stay tuned for your bonus material. And that bonus material is going to include Mr. Jonathan Frakes himself. Frackis himself will be joining us for an interview about his experiences. Which Frick? Tom Frakes or Wilfrick. Well, let's see. We don't know. We don't know. We'll find out when we get to that point. But he's going to be joining us for an

interview about his experiences filming this episode. So, you know, if you're not a Patreon member, I highly, highly recommend that you go to patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers. And for as little as $3 a month, you can get that bonus material and help support this podcast. Thanks, everybody. Thank you. See you next time.