The Delta Flyers - Ethan Phillips

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

The Delta Flyers is a weekly podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. This week’s episode is an interview with Ethan Phillips.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, Brannon Braga, Bryan Fuller, John Espinosa, & Ariana DelbarAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, E, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Jamason Isenburg, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey, Lori Tharpe, Mary Burch, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Roxane Ray, Daniel O’Brien, Bronwen Duffield, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Michael Dismuke, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, Daina Burnes, Morgan Linton, David Smith, & Matt BurchAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Nikita Jane, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Species 2571, Mary O'Neal, Dat Cao, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Tara Polen, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Jennifer Jelf, Justin Weir, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Aaron Ogitis, Ryan Benoit, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Captain Jak Greymoon, David Wei Liu, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Cindy Holland, Will Forg, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Christian Koch, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Shane Pike, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Akash Patel, Jennifer Vaughn, Cameron Wilkins, Michael Butler, Ken McCleskey, Walkerius Logos, Abby Chavez, Preston Meyer, Amanda Faville, Lisa Hill, Cerise Robinson, & Benjamin BulferThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, everyone, welcome to the Delta Flyers. Robbie and I are super excited to have none other than our good old friend from the show that we all worked on. Ethan Phillips. Ethan, welcome once again. Garrett and Robbie, thank you so much. How you doing? We're great. It's a pleasure to be here.

Starting off right off the bat, we know Long Island, New York. is your home, your original home. You grew up there. And at that time, your father was running a restaurant that his father started, Frankie and Johnny. So can you just tell us a little bit about, you know, just bring us into it when you were a kid. What was it like? Did you go to the restaurant a lot? You know, just give us a little over. Have you guys, either of you ever been to Long Island? Yes. Yes. I've spent a bunch of time in Long Island. Yeah, I thought you, I didn't know Garrett had been there. I grew up there in the 50s and in a middle class neighborhood.

What part of Long Island exactly? Nassau County. So, you know, around there. After World War II, Nassau County had it sort of exploded. Levit Town was out and maybe, was it Nassau or Suffolk? Leviton was in Nassau County. It was. It just was exploding with people that were working in Manhattan and wanted to live in the

suburbs. My dad commuted to work every day. He had started there as a bartender when he was a young man. When your grandfather ran the restaurant? Yeah. And when my granddad died, my dad took it over. And he had it until the late 80s until he sold it. It had been a speakeasy when it was first founded by my grandfather.

And Frankie was, Johnny was my granddad. Oh. Frankie was his partner? Ah, okay. And was Frankie? Okay. So you're Irish American or your grandfather? Yeah, Irish.

It breaks down to because my son. did the DNA thing and I'm mostly Irish. I'm 24.2% Jewish and a certain amount of Scottish. Okay. Okay. Mostly. So Johnny was your grandfather. Who was Frankie? Was he also? Yeah, Frankie was another waiter there. So the guy who had owned it, apparently this is way my dad, I remember dad to me. He fell down the stairs one night. It was like 1926. And he said, the hell with this place. I'm done with it. My grandfather said, I'll give you 500 bucks for it. And he said, sold. And so he, and he got the waiter to go in with it, Frankie and Johnny. So, and they kept the speakeasy going. If you came to the restaurant, you'd knock and they'd answer and they'd go,

Frankie, you'd have to say in Johnny, and then they let you in. And it stayed the way, well, it was in 1926 through the entire time. It never changed 14 tables and a little bar on the back. It was the hangout for the theater people in New York while that time. Yeah. Yeah. Ethan, I don't know if I ever told you this, but I lived for years. when I was going to acting school and when I first started in New York,

a half a block away from Frankie and Johnny's. I was on 45th between 8th and 9th. That was in the Whitby. Do you remember that building? Absolutely, because Frankie and Johnny's was 45th between 8th and 7. Yeah. I know that whole block. You walk by that restaurant, Robbie, probably thousands of times to go back to your...

There was like a deli downstairs that I would walk because my apartment was 100 feet from the corner. Exactly. I would go to Smiley's. Frankie and Johnny's was right upstairs. And you know what it was before, Smiley's? It was Childs. No, I don't know if I remember that. In the 20s, 30s and 40s that had places all over the country.

And it was kind of like Applebee's today or Denny's. At Child's restaurant, it was a cheap, good, old-fashioned meal. And it was one underneath Frank and Johnny's for a long time. Sorry, I'm going down the restaurant road of this neighborhood. Do you remember across the street from Smiley's, J.R's, the bar, that had the 50-cent burgers or 40-cent burgers? Remember J.Rs? Remember Smiths? That's what I'm thinking of. Sorry. Smiths.

Smiths. Smiths is what I'm thinking of. They had a great steam table. And you could go in there and get corned beef and cabbage for like $1.50. It was pennies. I remember this place, Garrett. I would walk around the corner and actors went there. All the actors went there because it was dirt cheap. Yeah.

And you could get a cheeseburger for like 50 cents or 45 cents. Remember Barrymore's? And Charlie's and all those places. Charlie's, oh, yeah, yeah. It was an actor's heaven. And Frankie and Johnny's, though, was like a step up. That was the Cadillac. That was the Cadillac.

And I never went to Frankie and Johnny's, but I remember the speakeasy door, because you'd go in this little door on 45th Street, and then these super steep stairs, very steep. Took you up to the corner restaurant that was Frankie and Johnny's, and it was tiny. It was a tiny place.

Yeah, it's a tiny little. place. It was a sweet place. It was covered with photos of stars and producers and stuff. And the food was phenomenal. You said 14 tables, right? That's it. I thought it was much larger. I do have a question. Yes, it's bigger now. Now it's moved to, now that it's moved to a different location. Yeah. Did your father want to take? Was he actively like, yes, I definitely want to take this over? Or was he kind of like, was he kind of like, you know, maybe someone, or do you even know this story. What could he do? It was it was 1948, 1950. He already had two or three children. I was on the way and it was another one. What was he going to do? He grew up in the Depression. This is the only

real opportunity for him. So he worked his his butt off there. He just worked so hard. And I never saw him except on Sundays, which was his day off. I think part of it he liked part of it. He He didn't. I think he enjoyed being a matriety. He was a very friendly man who knew many, many people, had many friends. And I think part of going to that restaurant each night probably sometimes was like going to host a little party. And other times, I think it was just work. But there was a lot of things to worry about as anybody who's ever worked in the restaurant business knows. You have to worry about theft. You have to worry about the health department. You have to worry about the chef being sick. You know, I mean, it was just constantly. Or did I order too much meat? We don't have enough tomatoes. You know, all those worries. I ended up working. there in 1978, my dad saw me in a play. He wasn't keen on me being an actor because he knows actors

and he knew how insecure actors can be because you just never know when the next job is. And he didn't want that life for his son. And he has five daughters and an actor. That was his attitude at the time. This is not a good smart. But then he came to see me in a production of comedy there is at MacArthur Theatre with Larry

Pine and Angelo Pietro Pinto and Jerry Bammon. And it was a wonderful production. And he came backstage. He said, kid, you got it. You got it, kid. I can see that. He was an astute, new acting. So he said, oh, you can buy the fruits and vegetables. So he bought me a van, and I used to go up to the South Bronx. South Bronx back in the late 70s was like just a horrible thing. And all the buildings had burnt down. The buildings were all set out of fire. And there's many, many pity. You just Google burning in the South Bronx. And you'll see videos of these vacant, vacant buildings, one after another with big black holes

with the windows where I remember Merbeam, I think it was Merbeam, put flowers in the windows. So you'd drive across the Cross Bronx Expressway and you'd look over to the South Bronx and all these buildings had flowers in the windows. They were painted. They were painted in there so they wouldn't look like what they were,

which were ruins. It was really surreal. I mean, I'd get up at 4, 3.30 in the morning and I'd drive up to the South Bronx and there was a place up there called Hunts Point, which was the size of about four or five city blocks. massive, twice the size of the Javits. And what it was was warehouse after warehouse filled with a specific food or vegetables. So there would be a warehouse with nothing but Crenshaw melons.

Okay. And there'd be a warehouse with nothing but mushroom. And you go into this Crenshaw melon warehouse and the perfume of the melons, which is completely enveloping. And I would spend like $8,900, a couple times of we can get tomatoes and potatoes and onions and blah, blah, blah, and drive back through these absolutely desolate streets. It was horrific. It was his one guy, Goldberg, sold me these mushrooms. This guy Goldberg, and he'd get these big fat mushrooms. And if you didn't call him at three in the morning and tell him to save you, so they'd be gone when you got there at 4 a.m.

So I used to call him every morning at 2 in the morning. I'd set my little alarm. And he'd get on the phone, I said, Goldberg, it's fellow, save me seven specials. Done. And he'd hang up. He would meet all kinds of people in there. He met this guy, Ray McCann.

This is when I was 16. He was the head of the Marine Engineers, Benevolent, Association, which was the union representing engineer workers in the merchant marine on freighters. So McCann said to him, you know, your kids should go to sea. It'll make a man of them. So the next summer, I ship out for eight months on a freighter as a as a seaman. You did this. Yeah.

You told me about this. You went on the merchant marines. I forgot about that. We sailed around the world. My first port of call was Bremerhaven. Sorry, Ethan, this is because you met somebody at that 4 a.m. market. My dad met this guy at the restaurant. All these people come to the restaurant.

So he got friendly with this guy, Raymond McKay. Yeah. He said, yeah, send your kid to sea. You know, so at 16, man, with my parents' permission, I went out on the SS Potomac. Oh, my God. In fact, I remember we were in Zib Rouge, Belgium. And it was all, there was 45 crew on a big freighter like that.

It's about 12 officers and the rest of the semen. There was one other college kid whose dad got him a job, too, on this thing. So he and I became buds, and we were standing on the shore. on the court in Zibruj and learned that the ship was going to NAM now because they had to pick up some ammunition. And the last ship that had gone through there had been blown up. And the crew was a little dicey, but they also knew that they got double pay. And so it was kind of very, but we thought we're not going to NAM.

We were going to jump ship until we found out it was a felony. So we stayed on. And then we never went to Vietnam. We went to South Carolina. Yeah. So it was, but for a couple of days, they're going to Vietnam. Oh, it was scary. You know, but he would meet these people. He met this guy who ran the great northern paper company. Yeah. And he said, yeah, yeah, we have this job, but your son would benefit from it. So what was that? It's a river driver. So what they would do up in Maine, in northern Maine, they would cut down the trees in the winter and pull them into logs and they put them out on the lake in Milanoch.

and they float down to the dam in Milanocot and be made into paper. But about 20% got caught up into the swamp grass and the rocks and everything, the shore of this huge lake, Jusunkuk. And they sent out these picking crews to pull the logs out of the rocks and the driftwood and everything and pulled them out into the lake. And then they boom them up and bring them down. So I did that for two summers. This is all high school.

This is all high school, yeah. Yeah. So this is before you were a buyer of the food and the mushrooms. Oh, yeah. This is back in the late 60s. Like after school, in grade school, you didn't go to the restaurant and hang out after. And none of that stuff. You said you didn't see your dad until Sunday.

That's it. Yeah. Right? I mean, you, I know you told me one time that you would sometimes go to see a play or something in town and then bring a friend over for dinner. Yeah, occasionally, we saw a lot of theater as children. And I'd invite a young lady to come with me. And my dad said, well, bring her over for dinner.

So I'd take her to the Frankie and Johnny's and share a meal with her and then go to the play. Right. But, you know, it wasn't my world. It was his business, and I don't think he wanted us there a lot. But he wanted you to take it over, though. That was his hope until he saw you in that play. And he says, you got a kid. And he knew he didn't.

He wanted me to be like a doctor or a lawyer. I mean, people don't become actors. You know, who becomes an actor? It's ridiculous. Right. And he just thought, you know, your chances are just really, really low that you'll make a living out of it. And he was right. But he's right.

The chances are very low for anyone to become. The three of us were in the right place at the right time. We're very lucky. Just as many people who are talented as us who could have done those jobs we did. Yes. But we were in, we had done the right sequence of things that ended us up in that place where we were seen for that role.

That's exactly. And so I always tell people it's tenacity, it's talent, but it's luck. Yeah. It's just luck. I have so many friends who were just extraordinarily talented. Yeah,

I think someone said luck is when timing meets with preparation. Like you have to be ready for it when it happens or you'll miss that. Preparation meets opportunity. Yeah, that's where it is. Preparation meets opportunity. The waves didn't break for them like they did for others. And that's just the way it is. Yeah.

It's very interesting. Ethan, I just want to ask, so your father, where did he grow up? Because you grew up in like Nassau County, Levittown, Long Island, suburbs, which was brand new suburbs. that whole experience was just evolving the idea of suburbs and living out of an island. Before that, where did your father grow up? Well, my dad was born in Philly and South Philly. He actually took me there once to see his house. It was a, you know, real poor, poor neighborhood.

His mom died during the Spanish flu in 1980. Wow. So he didn't have a mom. And his dad was, I don't think, you know, a very present father in his life. And he grew up, I think, with aunts. And he was very circumspect. He rarely talked about, my mom didn't either, rarely talked about their early lives.

And so, but I know that he, he spent time in orphanages and living with aunts and stuff. Wow. Wouldn't that be interesting if your dad met Picardo's dad, who also was in Philly at the time, and Picardo's mom, right? That would be interesting if they crossed each other's path. I think he came from a more middle class background, Bob, Okay. I'm almost positive. I don't know for a fact. My grandfather, when he was 18, went to fight in World War I. Oh, my God. While he was there, his wife died.

What? He was on duty. He was on the tour and he came home and the wife had passed away. She died during the flu. Oh, the Spanish, the Spanish flu. Oh, and he was gasped in E-P-R-E-S, I think it's called. He was, he came back. Mustard gas. Yeah. Mustard gas, yeah. And he came back. And what is, here it is, it's 1920. He's a young man. He has the balls to get up and go to New York and make his way in the world.

And so he was quite a, you know, a determined fellow. And my dad grew up under tough circumstances. But, but yeah, I think he wanted that as a fallback in case I didn't. You know, I studied English literature. I was into things that had nothing to do with business. I had no business mind. I've never had a business. Well, at what point did you get that acting?

When did the acting bug bite you? I know that you've done other things such as play instruments as well. So what point in your life did you feel that I've got to get into this? When I was a kid and I'd watch TV and I'd get scared because something was going to happen. I remember my mom telling me, this is an episode of panic. since I think CBS was an apology series back in the 50s and it was a very scary episode and I started freaking out on my, remember my mom, I was like seven, my mom said,

I was like seven, my mom said, no, honey, no, you don't have to worry about them. They're just pretending. What do you mean? They're pretending. They're being photographed for us. They're going to have a coffee break soon and then do that exact same scene again. And I went, what?

This is, these are adults and we're doing this? Yes, this is how they make their living. and I went, oh, that's pretty cool. That's pretty cool. I kind of lodged in the back of my head, like we'd play what we used to call Cowboys. And if I got shot in the game, you know, somebody shot me in it,

I was done with the game. I would lay on the sidewalk for an hour and a half. I did, because I was going to pretend that I really got shot. I was committed, completely committed. You committed to the game. So that, you know, I just, I just loved pretending in these, in these bizarre situations, My own situation was just kind of really, you know, domestic, middle-class Long Island in the 50s.

Now I could be a cowboy on a horse and get shot and die and be dead. And then at the end, come back to life and go home and have dinner. When did you start playing saxophone? I want to get into your musical ability. In high school, you know. Just going back to that time, though, that early time when I was looking at the restaurant, that whole time in the mid to late 70s when I was. was in New York. I'd come down from grad school. And, uh, you know, you know what it was like,

Robbie, because you were there too. You weren't there there. This is, this is, I, I came to New York in 1982, the summer, August of 1982. So New York was just beginning to start to recover. Yeah, because we were, I was, because in the 70s, when I visited New York, it was crazy. It was very frightening. Yeah, some of the places, you know, as you came into the city through Fort Washington or Washington Heights, it was a scary place. New York was the summer of Sam. You know, it was, there were blackouts. I was living with three people in a two-rule apartment on 24th and 10th. I was trying to be an actor. I was waiting tables. I worked working at a mental institution at night, I was cleaning toilets at this bar in 24th and 10th. I was going to auditions. I was doing

plays on like Avenue D. Everybody was taking classes and I thought, no, no, the thing is to keep doing plays. You learn more on stage in one night than you're doing 50 classes. So I would do all these little plays and nobody would come. And there were a million of them. Because everybody was fleeing New York, Garrett. I know you're a young man. You're a young man. You may not remember this. And I was a young man when I came to me. I was 17 when I came to New York City. Right. You're a boy. But yes, my first apartment was on a 129th in Riverside. It was in Spanish Harlem. It was. And I would take the Broadway local, the one train up to my stop and then walk from Broadway down to Riverside past what you described. And three out of four buildings were

burned out. I would walk past all of these boarded up, you know, there was metal. They would cover the windows and metal. And it was all, it was all graffitied. The subway cars. I went to high school in Crown Heights, which today you can't get an apartment for less than a million. Back then, you couldn't find the subway. Nobody had ever made it. No, it was a different city back then. It was a totally different city. But there was a community. I came into the end of that. In 82, what happened in 80, the stock market started to go up and things changed. Like when I was there, Square was, it looked like a red light section of a Hamburg. I mean, it was just, it was porn shops, bars, and hookers and junkies. And that was 42nd Street. And nobody went there. I used to

go there all the time because you could see a double bill. Yeah, you wouldn't, you wouldn't walk between Broadway and 8th Avenue on 42nd without, you know, being in a group of people. It was very dangerous. Yeah, it was very, it was very new. You wouldn't go into Central Park. I've got my first apartment in 1978. I finally got my own little apartment. It was a one-room apartment on 83rd and Amsterdam.

And it had a bathroom in the hall. I shared it with, there were three apartments and we all share the same bathroom. Oh, God. It was $190 a month. But it was my own place. The only problem with it, there were more cockroaches there than you could even imagine.

And I used to get my dad's exterminator. This is a guy who exterminates a restaurant to come in and exterminate. It still wouldn't kill the roaches. I believe they'd say, bring back chocolate and we'll change the locks. These are the kind of cocky cockroaches they were. They were arrogant. Very arrogant.

So you got there at 82, Robbie. Okay? So I was a freshman at UCLA at 85. In 88, I got an American Express card. American Express card gave every person that had a student American Express card. They gave two vouchers. These vouchers,

these vouchers were on continental airlines it was a round trip ticket anywhere in the u.s for $49 round trip that's what it was so you get two of them so i said i'm going to get the most i can out of it i'm going to go as far as i can which will be new york city so that was the first time i went is 1988 so this is six years after you got there but i got there and i fell in love with it so i was i was there we were there yes you both i were there i probably walked past you guys i did i'm just saying it happened. But I loved it. And I used every voucher. Every year, I'd get two more vouchers. So I went to New York as a college student twice a year flying for $49. That's great, man. That's great. You know, New York is, after New York, I wish everything else was camping out. I would never live

anywhere else. Just is my favorite place in the world. I'm never going to leave it. And every time you leave your apartment, there's something going on. It's always exciting. Can we rewind a little bit to your bachelor's degree in English literature at BU? How did that happen? Why did you go to BU? I went to Catholic schools my whole life. High school was all boys. And then I went to a Jesuit, there was a Jesuit prep school. And then I went to a Jesuit college. Again, it was all boys. And I went to visit my buddy. He was up at Boston University. It's one of my oldest friends. And I couldn't believe that there were all these beautiful women everywhere. And I thought, I want to go here.

I'm going to go to this college university. And so I transferred to be you. Do you were at the Jesuit university for one semester? One, two semesters. And then you were gone. You were like, I wanted to go where there were women.

Well, that makes sense. It makes sense. Is that all right? Yeah. That's how I ended up there. Wow. My subject was Latin. And so I had this vague idea that I might be a Latin teacher.

But because I was really good at it. I could see you doing that. It was just a chance to really get away from just that kind of insulated environment that I had been in for so long and to, you know, open a window and it was a beautiful place. You know, going to Boston University must have been like, Boston in the late 60s and early 70s, dude. Yeah. I mean, it was scars and Simon and Garfunkel and English poetry and let's go listen to Bob Dylan and it was just this whole romantic kind of, you know, thing.

And it was just great to be part of that. And it was a very political time, very political. And it opened my eyes to a lot of things. And I really enjoyed it. And I got into acting while I was there in a serious way. I was in a class where a guy named Vinnie Murphy came in, who to this day is one of my oldest friends. And he said, we're doing, came into the shrew.

If anybody wants to audition, come in to blah, blah, blah, blah. So my girlfriend, Sally Bowden said to me, well, didn't you act in high school? I said, yeah, she says, you should audition. I said, yeah, maybe I will. So I went in and I auditioned for Groomio, who was Petruchio's sidekick and came in the show. And I got the part. I really had fun, you know, and all of a sudden met all these other people that were really in acting, and it was really a good production.

I just knew that this was fun and that I really enjoyed this. And it's like we talked about this once for chariates of fire where they're guy says, God made me fast. And when I run, I feel him smile. And that made me, God may be able to pretend really well. And when I do it, I hear him smile. You know, it's kind of silly like that. But I felt that this is my thing. And I, and I started looking around. And I said, I think I can do this. I'm pretty sure. And if I don't try, I'll regret it my whole life. And, and I turned out to be cast a lot. Yeah. You know, I was a short guy. I was in. ball back then. You know, I was a character type. So that was real, that helped me back

then, you know. Were you sporting the long hair then? In college, I had hair down to hear. Oh, you did. But everybody did back then. Right. Everyone had long hair then. Yeah. Yeah. We, that was, that was to show you're under 30, you know. Got it. What did your parents think about your long hair? They were adverse to it. They were adverse to it. Oh, Ethan, one other thing I forgot to bring up is when we were working on the show together. We talked a little bit about how you loved football. And this is something that Robbie and I, we both love football, but we don't typically talk a lot about football because a lot of our listeners don't really follow football. But this is probably middle school and junior high.

Is that right? That you're, yeah. Six, seventh and eighth grade. I was a right guard and I was a monster. Right. And also you played on defense. You were at defensive end. Is that right? I just played right guard. Oh, guard only. Offensive guard only. Okay. And you mauled people. I ran them over. I just. got rid of a lot of aggression, I guess, or a lot of stress. And so it just charged into somebody. Yeah. But then when I at high school, people got much bigger than me.

You know, there were, you know, six, two and weighed 250 pounds. I couldn't compete. So that's why I went into the drama club and started working there. But when you did compete, you loved it. This was something you absolutely adored. Do you still follow it at all? Do you watch it? Once I couldn't play anymore, I stopped following it.

I'm a baseball fan today. Yeah. I love baseball. I follow the Mets, even though it's, it's, it's, pretty sad. It's hard-breaking. It is sad for the Mets right now, yes. Oh, God, almighty. How they do that? They played the twins last night. I didn't even want to look at the score. I don't know what it was. Do you have a secondary team other than the Mets that you cheer for? Or is it just a Mets? Well, not really, no. Okay. I joke around. I'll say to my friends, hey, how about those

Padres the other night? No, I don't follow any of them. It's just, it's just the Mets. But I'd like referencing the others. Ethan, you remember when we were filming the show that when Robbie was just absolutely gaga over Atlanta at the time. I mean, Atlanta was, didn't they win the the Braves? They were, yeah. The Braves in the 90s when we made

the show together. They were like the Yankees. They were the dominant team of the United States. Yeah. But yet they couldn't seem to win a world. They won one World Series. Oh, that's what it was. Wow.

Yeah. But I recall. They only got one. But they would have the best seasons all year. They would be dominant. Yeah. Yeah, what was in the baseball than when we were doing that. If you remember this, Ethan,

Robbie would, some of the crew guys would have the game on it and their little TVs there. And Robbie would go over and watch it and see what was happening and then go back on the set and act a little bit. So he was so invested in the United States. I was very invested in the Braves in the 90s. I was. I've kind of moved my passions to the Georgia Bulldogs football team,

college football team. Yeah. Which I've been a big college football fan for the last 15, 20 years. I was always a fan, but my dominant passions have shifted from baseball to college football. Yeah, two years ago, Ethan, when they were in the championship, I secretly bought a ticket and flew to Utah, rented a car, and drove to McNeil's house to watch the game with him to surprise it. I was going to the post office. I pulled down the driveway and I'm like, who's that creep driving back and forth in front of my house?

Who's that creepy guy? I didn't know what his house looked like. I was lost and came out. And he came out and found him. That is funny. Good for you. What are you doing here? I was like, I said, I heard there's a game on.

And so I came to help support and they won. He's totally surprised me. I think they won because I showed up in Utah. I think that's why they did. I think I made Garrett go to the recycling center. It was not the post office. It was recycling. I was going to the recycling center.

I was like, well, I'm on my way to the recycling center. Come on. the car. Oh, God. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh, my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. Well, that is why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. The coverage and speed are the same as I'm using.

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Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. Do you know the thing is I could talk about any sport in the world as if I'm completely knowledgeable? Because I just go, like I said, somebody would go, man, what happened last night to the Rockies? And I'll go, you tell me, I couldn't believe it. And then they'd go, well, when he struck out, and I'd go, there was no reason.

And I'll just say nothing. And they'll go, yeah, but McKellen, he comes on to first. He says, he shouldn't even been on first. He said, why not? And I'll go, well, what do you think? I mean, and then he go, well, he did drop the thigh. He dropped it. He fell right out of his mick.

I didn't even try. So now these things, people think I saw the damn game. Yeah. And I can do the same with football. Oh, God. I know these people on the street that think I'm a massive football fan. They'll come in and go, the chiefs are going to have a, a great year and I said, maybe. Have you looked at what's on the bill? Have you seen the offense

on the bills this year? Have you seen their offense? You tell me they're not going to make mince me to the chiefs. God bless them. And then he'd get in, then they give them monologue because they love to talk about it. Monologue on the chiefs and the bills. And I nod and interject and so I don't know who the hell bills are. I don't know where they're from. I didn't even, are they the cross? Are they hockey? I wouldn't even know. Well, there you go. I didn't even know. I love it. I love it. So you've been a pretender your whole life. always pretending. Did this come out of your acting, or was this before you're acting? Oh, God, he just put the pin on. You put on the random flight pin.

Robbie's fan group pin is on. I used to love pretending. Yeah. I mean, I would do it as a kid, like before acting. I'll tell you what happened. I would fall down two flights of stairs and lie there comatose. And people would run down and go, what's wrong? And I woke up, I'm just kidding. And I do this. I always did this. It backfired on me really badly in 19. I was, I got into skateboarding. I've always been into that stuff, like rock climbing and paragliding and all this. I just love doing that stuff. You skateboarded.

We used to build our own. We'd get a piece of wood and we'd screw roller skate wheels on. Oh, my God. And we just were nuts. And I was obsessed with it. And one night I was in front of Jay Metler's house. He lived two doors down for me. And I was with my friend Chuck La Bella, Jay Metler,

Mead Brown. I was hanging 10, and I went over a curb, and I fell off the curb, and I split my leg in half. My whole shin just broke in half, and the bottom bone on my foot popped out. Oh, God. And I lay there, screaming in pain. And they didn't believe you. No, they're laughing their asses. I'll go, Phillips, this is amazing.

And I'm not kidding, guys. I really, and finally, it was a little girl lived in the neighborhood, Kathy Coil, I remember her. Kathy Coil. He's like, his bone is sticking out. He's sticking out of his foot. I had long pants. You couldn't sit. I said, Kathy, they won't believe me.

Please get my mom. And they got my mom, and my mom leave me right away. And they called the ambulance. And as I was being gurneyed into the ambulance, Chuck LaBella says, Phillips, I don't believe you'd go this far. This is awesome. They thought you were still pretending. Yeah.

So that's how it backfired on me. You're the ultimate boy who cried, Wolf, aren't you? You're able to. Oh, my goodness. You were a born actor. actor. How old are you when your leg broke like that? 14. You were a teenager. That must have been excruciating to have your. Have you ever broken a bone? Yeah. It's so bad. Yeah. It's the worst pain of the world. It's really bad. But not like your, it didn't come out. I broke my wrist playing soccer, actually. But I never had a bone sticking out. So it was coming out of your foot, right?

It peaked out of the shin and, um, and they said it. But I was in the hospital for a couple of weeks because it was a bad break. What'd your mom say when she saw it? My mom started crying. Oh, God. Of course. This is her baby with a broken, a bone coming out. She's going to cry. My God.

But it's all healed up. Yeah, but your, but your friends, your quote, friends, they didn't believe it. They're like, you were such a. Phillips, you're the funniest. I don't believe. I'm just LaBella saying, I don't believe you'd go this far, Phillips. And I'm still, I'm still friends with Chuck to this day. He went out to become.

It was awesome. Yeah, what did Chuck do? Chuck was assistant DA in San Diego. He was once on the list to be head of FBI. He went on to become a major prosecuting attorney. But we're still close. He's a great guy. And I'm still close with Mead.

Mead became a labor lawyer. He lives in Washington. What about lovely Ms. Coyle? Young Miss Coyle. What is she doing? I have no idea what happened with Kathy Coyle, you know. I was friends with her brother, older brother. Tommy, Tommy, he was a friend of mine.

That's when I was in my teams. I don't know what happened to Tommy even. Because it sounds like if Coyle didn't come out, lovely Kathy Coyle, you'd still be in that street with a broken bone. I might still be there in a broken bone. I think so. 50 years later. You have 50 years later.

Get my mom, somebody. I never got on another skateboard again. Oh, my God. Were you trying to jump? What were you doing when you broke it? I'm just trying to picture. I was hanging 10, so I had all my toes. Yeah, sorry, at the front of the,

board, correct? Okay. And then you hit the, what you hit? I went over the curb. Yep. And and I don't know what happened, whether a wheel or something, but I just, I flipped over and I landed the wrong way. And my, my shoe just flit in two. It sounds like you somersaulted midair and landed on your shin the wrong way. And it just snapped. And you did it, you did a Joe Thaisman, basically, right? Where everyone's, oh, my God. Yeah. And then LaBella, Chuck, Chuck brought me a strawberry shake when I was in the hospital. And he ended up drinking the whole thing. I'll never forget that. Good old Chuckie.

All right. So we've established you're a great bullshitter and a great actor. And, you know, when you're not actually performing a script, you can fake people out. But let's talk about your creative process as an actor. Now that you're a professional card-carrying actor, you're licensed to do this for a professional. I'm licensed to do this. You're a license to be a professional. Yeah.

Don't try this at home. You're licensed to do it professionally. What is your creative process when you first get a script or a role or a scene? It's evolved. I remember when I was in high school doing things like Charlie's aunt and, you know, the little prince and the kind of plays you did in high school. Yeah. I think I just wanted to make people laugh.

And I was good at telling jokes. So I would, you know, try to find the right way to. say it, you know, but I didn't really understand what it was. I told you this story where I auditioned for the first time for a play at high school, and the priest had me read this line from Macbeth, which I'll say, because we're not in a theater. And the character, so like only one liner, very little in the fifth scene. And the man comes up to him and he says, My Lord, your son has been cut in half and lays slain on the battle for you.

And my line is, he is dead then, which is a very funny line, if you want to play it that way. Yeah, absolutely. There's a big laugh there. Yeah, a huge laugh. So I just, I said, he's dead then. And the priest went, come on, kid, this man's son is dead. He died in battle.

He's feeling pride, but he's feeling sad. There's so much he's feeling. I can't even, you got to convey some of that. And I was 14, and I remember thinking, oh, I just have to pretend that something bad happened to me. Yeah. So what would happen if my, if my, if my cat, mean, he died. Yeah.

Oh, that would be so sad. Yeah. And so I kind of translated that feeling into he is dead now. Yeah. And you just taught yourself that substitution. You just, yeah, didn't know about it. And he stepped back and he said, you're good, kid. And, um, and that felt really good.

Yeah. To know that I was good at something. Yeah. And, uh, to get a pat on the back, which was wonderful. Right. And then they started putting me in bigger roles and pretty soon I was getting the lead and everything.

And that's all I did was trying to pretend like it was really happening, but I didn't have any technique or anything. I met real actors when I started working in Boston after I got out of college, Tim McDonough and Vinnie Murphy and a lot of these people, Karen Ross, they had studied it. And they had a technique.

There's a story about Lawrence Olivier where he says, you know, one night he came off and he was so good. And everybody said, he was so good. He said, I know the gods were with me. And he said, but on nights they aren't, it's technique. And so I didn't really have any technique, but I learned a little technique in grad school where we would break down the script into verbs.

So what am I trying to do here? Well, I'm trying to seduce them. Am I trying to praise them? Am I trying to get something fun? So you had a specific action to play. So now I had an action to play. Then what tactic was I going to use with that action? Was I going to do it in a friendly way, or was I going to do it in a sinister?

And I had to literally think this stuff do it. So I go through the script with a pen and go, I am assaulting. I am backing off. And so I could orient myself. And I gradually realized in rehearsal, as I rehearsed play, I would find moments. It's like when you do a rock climb, there's always one pitch that's the crux. And that's where the difficulty of the climb is apparent. And in a play, a play is always about the most important day in the lives of these people when you're playing.

That's the most important day in their lives. Otherwise, it's not worth doing it. And it would always be a most important moment. And I would find that moment through the help of the director and the other actors. And I'd practice that moment. And I'd try to make it believable as it would be to me. I used to even do this image technique where I'd go, what if I was trying to get out of East Germany and I was being spied on by the East Germans. and I had to convince them

that this was what I was saying was true so they would let me leave each I could do these games in my head so I would repeat I'd do it until it was real and then that was a bolt I could put down on the stage and I knew I'm safe with that moment

and I would put bolts down throughout the play and I'd have six or seven bolts where I knew where I was going I was sick then was all the interstitious what can I throw away what can I do

and then gradually all this stuff goes by the way son. You don't even think about it anymore. But at the time, you're trying to piece together a way to approach a role. William H. Macy? He said something wonderful once. She said, you know, I go to the set and I sit around all day. And then they want me for five minutes. And I have to do something magical, sexy, mysterious, funny, real, powerful. And until I do that, they don't get to go home. You're aware of that. You're acting something that has, there's stakes. There's stakes. There's always stakes, you know. I just kind of waddled through it. I don't know what the hell I did. I just knew that sometimes I hit it. And when I did, I tried to remember what it was that made me hit it. But I didn't, I didn't reflect on it too much. I just kept doing plays. I just kept doing plays and plays. And I gradually learned how to edit myself up there. And I gradually learned how to do a close-up on stage. And I gradually learned how to give and receive because it's a game. I toss the ball to you. I'm going to do you. I don't care.

about me. I'm going to do you. And they'll come back to me. I'm going to do you. And we're giving each other this back and forth. And I would find my performance in the other actor's eyes if he was there. Jennifer Lean used to give me that. Jennifer Lean was so raw and without skin when she acted. When I had scenes with her. And I could find everything I needed just by looking at Jennifer. Wow. She would give me everything I needed. And I find that to be true. Pretty much so. I mean, there are sometimes you'll work with a person who is a little untutored and still doesn't know it. But by then you have technique and you can get through stuff you have to do. But if you're working with the good one, you don't need, you can do a, I've done plays that have run a year.

And the last performance is just as new as the first one because I'm working with people who are making it fresh every night. And they know it's the illusion of the first time. They know these people have never seen it. And I love owning it. And I love going on with it. And I've worked with actors and said, how can you do that? Who've never done, I get a movie with Joaquin Phoenix, a brilliant film actor, never done a play.

He said, how do you do that? I'd go out of my mind by the third night because he hadn't experienced it. But I wonder what he would feel like if he actually did a play and realized that when the language is that brilliant, when you're doing it, yeah, or Shakespeare or something, I mean, I don't want to sound pompous. I'm not, but there really is something incredible about these amazing playwrights. The thing that I guess I will give an opinion or a judgment about,

you, Ethan, is that you really value the process in a way that not every actor does. I've always known this about you, that you love the process of acting. It's so much fun. The experience of just the magic that happens in the moment and whether or not it's received with, you know, accolades, whether it's just a hit. whether I know about you that that's not the priority, that the priority is I want to have an experience, a human experience that's real, that's authentic, that has depth and value. And I want the story to be told. I want the writer to experience what was in his head.

It may not be what he thought when he wrote that line, but I want to get him something that he'll be equally satisfied with. That's very important. I want to be. please the writer also it sounds like a lot of your what you in terms of your process was learned on the job it was doing plays yes you had uh conservative when you were when you got your mf a Cornell yeah you had training scene study classes whatever stage combat movement but outside of that after you got your MFA you really didn't study with any teachers outside you just started doing plays is that is that you started doing it yeah and the thing that I experienced most at Cornell was not the acting classes. It was the fact that we were hired to do summer stock. So each summer I would do four or five

plays in a rep. And throughout the year, we were always hired, we were always doing plays for the Cornell student body. So I was doing classics. I was doing, you know, Shakespeare in Montere, I was doing all the great ones. We were doing, uh, uh, Pirandello. I mean, I was in all things I would never be cast at, playing roles that I would never be cast him. And I got to experience them. And yeah, so I learned doing it. I learned doing it. And it was fun. It was never work. Never work. What year did you write your first, that one play that you wrote? Or is there more than one play? Was it 19?

Several plays. That was 87. 87 was the first one, right? Yeah. And that was a dare. I had been going to Sundance. Yeah, I would go to Sundance and they have a film program there in the summer, and they had a theater program. And they would invite young playwrights. I mean, I did the very first reading, certainly one of the first readings of Angels in America. of Angels in America in 19 I don't know what it was up in Tony Kushner came there with this play that he was writing and we would we were there to support the writers so I go really indoctrinated into this you're a craftsperson and your job is to make sure the writers that the idea that he's

trying to get at the call is sent to the audience right they have to receive that yeah you can't mumble it you got to send that idea and and so I really want to make sure that the audience got it But I didn't want to be over the top. And I have a tendency to go over the top. I'd rather go over the top than do nothing. One of my favorite actors is Jack Nicholson. He doesn't care. He does it.

He does not. True. How was it a dare that you wrote the play? How did that happen? So the gentleman who was the artistic director of the San An Stater group, he said, I've been there a couple of times. I dare you to write a one act. I said, all right.

So I went around and I think. thought for a long time. And I won't go into how it, I came up with the idea, but I came up with a pretty good idea. And I told it to a friend of mine who was a, he was a dramaturg, taught dramaturg at UCLA. And he said, that's a terrific idea, but there's no conflict. Why don't you try blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, you're right. That would really, and I went home and I rewrote the whole thing in one big rush. Wow. And it was, it got best one act of the year. That's awesome. Published. That is so cool. You know, but I never wanted to be a writer.

It was really just a dare. And then I wrote another full length that's pretty good, too. But I'm not interested in writing or lighting or directing. I want to just be the guy on the stage. Yeah. Passing the message on to the audience of the writer. Yeah, that's who I want to be. I remember when Robbie left to direct, I remember thinking,

be you're an actor. The hell are you doing? What are you doing, man? And then I said, well, now you'll be able to put yourself in all your shows. and then Robbie would never do that. I go, what I never do? Why are you hiring me? Do it yourself if you get to act.

My friend Robert Schenken, who has won a Pulitzer and a Tony and became one of the great writers who were at Cornell together. I did 50 plays with Robert at Cornell. And he was a brilliant actor, and he left it to become a writer. And Robert, why are you leaving to become a writer? Because he loved writing and he was really good at it. And to me, it doesn't make sense, you know. You loved acting.

Well, it's funny because not only Robbie, but Roxanne, too. Both of them, right after our show ended, they just left, they just left the world of acting. Is she acted at all? Oh, I don't think so, right, Robbie? And she could have put herself in her own projects, I'm sure, but she didn't do it. Absolutely. Yeah. And Robbie, you talked about that on that funny show, spy show you did.

You talked about like, oh, yeah, I might be put in as, I might be in on that one episode or whatever as a SWAT guy or whatever, but then you didn't do it. You kept back and out. I always backed out. What was it about it that you decided this is not for me? I did ultimately in that in that comedy spy show. I did do a very small one or two line role. Oh, you did? Oh.

Yes. Well, I didn't know that. Okay. And I was stuck in a helicopter with another actor while we were lighting and getting ready to shoot. And I had asked the line producer, I said, hey, why don't you direct this scene since I'm going to be stuck here. I can't really, this is not a situation where I can direct and act.

So why don't you just, because I'm stuck in the helicopter that's all, you know, tied into the logistics. So I just said to Paul, I said, you direct this if you can. And I was stuck in the helicopter. And I remember thinking, as I'm listening to the actors talking to each other. I was like, I would rather be out there talking to the camera operator about the angle and the lens size and is the lighting right and do it.

I'd rather be out there because this is like the killing time in between acting was not interesting to me. I didn't find that. Like I'm with you. Like those moments when you're acting in the, you're riding the wave, you're in the scene,

that experience. but in the world of film and television those moments are so rare and like Bill Macy said you know for for nine hours or 12 hours the actors are mostly sitting around and if I'm going to spend

nine or 12 hours on a set or whatever 14 hours on a set I always enjoyed feeling vital to the conversations how did the saxophone begin for you you guys don't remember the Dave Clark 5 they were the band that came right out after the Beatles the Beatles in 1960s

1964 played, I want to hold your hand. And it was a big deal and they came to America. And the band that immediately followed them was not the Rolling Stones. It wasn't the Who. It wasn't King Floyd. It was the Dave Clark five from Tottenham. And it was a group of five men. Dave Clark was the drummer. And they had a sectional playing, Denny Peyton. And they had a bunch of hits, almond pieces, bits and glad all over and all these wonderful kind of pop tunes. And they became a big deal. So the saxophone player. And I thought, God, that's the coolest looking instrument I've ever seen in my life. It's so sexy, so awesome. I want to play that.

So my dad got me a really cheap one for like 150 bucks, and I started taking lessons. And I learned how to read music and eventually got into music theory, and I just started taking lessons every day. And I had a lesson this morning. I spent my morning trying to figure out how it could get from B minor 7 to D, half diminished, to A diminished. arpeggiating them because see on a saxophone you can't play a chord yeah so if you're going to

play the c chord you have to play c e g and b so you know from the little you play in the clarinet so we spent like we must spend an hour and a half just doing these three chords and so many different inversions and then then we were able to plug it into bye by blackbird so when i got to those chords and by by blackbird i was able to plug in these new uh rift this new transition yeah and it was so much fun And I just love doing that. But when it comes to playing in groups, I only play rock band. I will only be in a rock band because as much as I love jazz, it's too hard for me to do what the pros do. They've been playing 10,000 hours.

That group that inspired you, Dave Clark Five. I think you said they're from Tottenham. Is that what you said? You know, who's from Tottenham that we all know? Who? Marina, Circhis. Oh, she's from Tottenham. That's her neighborhood. Yeah.

She cheers for the Tottenham Hotspurs. She loves that football. And that's her old stomping grounds is Tottenham, which is where the Dave Clark five are from. And that's who inspired you to go into your musical career. Wow. That's insane. But now I listen to Sonny Stitt and I listen to Coltrane and I listen to Ben Webster and I listen to Michael Brecker. And I listen to Buddy Tate and I listen to Gene Ammons and I listen to all these guys.

And I just have so many people I listen to and I just love them. And they floor me. They floor me at their, at the. level craft they had. That's so cool. Anything else about the creative process? You know, I've written a lot about acting just for myself. Like I said Christopher Walken, quote, the truth is good, but interesting is better.

Ellen Burstyn explains that her preparation for any role involves taking an elevator down to my inner archive where I quietly flip through the files until some memory rises up and offers itself. You know, and that's what we were talking about. before you know this is a quote from Alan Ruck you know Alan Ruck yeah we did a couple of movies together he's a great guy and he said to me once he said somebody asked me once how do I choose my roles and I was like Merrill Street and Brad Pitt do that that's not how it is for the rest of us

true we don't choose our roles this is Alan say this I'll take it yeah I love Alan he's a great guy as you get older you want to get back to that transcendent thing that point where you're no longer thinking I'm going to hit my mark now and then she's going to a Saker line. You're just existing. See how close to the edge you can get. This is a very famous Mike Nichols quote. That was wonderful. Now do it as yourself. I just think that's brilliant. Mike Nichols. Oh, my God. He was directing a movie when we were filming in the first season. He was directing something on the set. Was he? Yeah. Wasn't that what Robin Williams when he came over to visit our set? Isn't that Mike Nichols? I could have sworn that's what it was.

It was La Cajosha Fall. That's when I ran into him in the alley. We had a great moment together. Remember Brimley? What was his name? Wilford Brimley. Wolframley. Yes.

I wrote, this is something I wrote down. Mr. Deval, Robert Deval, recalled a set to, I guess, a kind of an altercation between Mr. Brimley and the director, Bruce Beresford, who had made a suggestion about how Mr. Brimley might play the role of Harry. And Brimley goes, now look, let me tell you something. I'm Harry. Harry's not over there. Harry's not over here.

Until you fire me or get another actor, I'm Harry, and whatever I do is fine because I'm Harry. That's great. This is Chris Plummer. Don't study your lines.

Read the play. Read the play over and over and over again. You learn the play. And that's what I've, I memorized the whole play when I'm in a play. Yeah, you've said that before. I memorized the whole place. Everyone's roles.

Wow. I know. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. You're going to live in that. world you better know it you learn more about what other characters say about you yes whatever that's very important that's right that's right i used to what you're reading from reminds me when i first

started directing i had one page on a word processor yeah that i would keep all my thoughts and ideas and i'd print it out and put it in my script at the very front when i was directing it was like just shorthand it was thoughts it was filled with things like do it wrong let's try it wrong one time or you know it was just short short ideas that I picked up about directing that I could share with actors when we got into a moment where the scene wasn't working or they tell they weren't feeling satisfied it was just things to remind myself to like suggest or say and I think to think outside the box really I mean I would have a model of a very sad monologue and I and I'd say I'm going to do it like a stand-up you know right and do the whole

Try it wrong. Do it wrong. Do it wrong. And I think that's a great idea. It's just care enough not to care, you know, so much, you know. I love that you have that collection. That's so cool. It's great for people who are looking to be creative in whatever field to keep a bit of a journal of things that inspire you and remote. Because it's easy to forget when you're stuck in the process of trying to, you know, prepare for a role or a play or a shoot.

It's easier to forget the things that really registered for you at some point in your career. Merrill Street. I think the most liberating thing I did early on was to free myself from any concern with my looks as they pertain to my work. That's a very smart, smart thing. Very smart. Yeah. Well, you two have inspired me to start making lists on my own. I think that's a great idea.

It's a little journal. If it's one page, if it's a whole journal, a whole little private kind of collection. of inspiration. This is George M. Cohen, which he said to Spencer Tracin. Whatever you do, kid, always serve it with a little dressing. These people said it's just amazing things. Well, Ethan, thank you so much for sharing your process, your creative process, these amazing stories.

All right, everyone. We were so lucky to have Ethan Phillips joining us once again. and thank you again, Ethan. And for those of you who are Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. Everyone else, we'll see you next week with another episode. But once again, thank you, Ethan.

Thanks for being here. Thank you, sir. Thank you. You know, B. Burt of Bhopal, Bhopal,

B. Bhopal, B, Bhopal, B B, B B,

B B. B Thank you.