The Delta Flyers - Eye of the Needle

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Eye of the Needle. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise, and Rebecca Sims, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller. Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers  Ann Marie Segal, Philipp Havrilla, Jason M Okun, Kelton Rochelle, Stephanie Baker, Stephen Smith, Sarah A Gubbins, John Tufarella, Brian Barrow, Chris Knapp, Daniel Adam, Eve Mercer, James Hildebrand, Matthew Gravens, Mary Jac Greer, Marie Burgoyne, Michelle Zamanian.And our Producers  Col Ord, Aithne Loeblich, AJ Provance, Ann Harding, Barbara Beck, Breana Harris, Catherine Goods, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Chris Tribuzio, Claire Deans, Craig Sweaton, Crystal Komenda, Dave Grad, Deborah Schander, Father Andrew Kinstetter, Gay Kleven-Lundstrom, Gregory Kinstetter, Heidi McLellan, James G.Jones, James Amey, James Cooper, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Josh Johnson, Karel Hartlieb, Katherine Hedrick, Katie Johnson, Katherine Puterbaugh, Kelley Smelser, Laura Swanson, Liz Scott, Maggie, Mary O'Neal, Matthew Cutler, Mike Schaible, Máia W, Nancy Stout, Nathanial Moon, Nevyn Cross, Rich Gross, Richard Banaski, Ryan, Steph Dawe Holland, Terence Thang, Thomas Melfi, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Warren Stine, York Lee. Thank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers. We are a weekly podcast that discusses episodes of Star Trek Voyager in chronological order. Your two hosts along this podcast journey are myself, Garrett Wong, also known as Ensign Harry Kim, and Robert Duncan McNeil, who portrayed Lieutenant Tom Paris. If you're interested in either an extended version of this podcast, or the extended video version of this podcast, both of which include added, juicy bonus segments. Check out our Patreon page at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron. All righty. So this week's episode, hi, Robbie. Yes. Say hi to you. Hi, buddy. You said juicy bonus content. I know I made you smile when I said juice. I know. That sounded wrong. Just wrong. Well, see, that's my descriptive word for extra bonus materials that may be a little bit edgy. You know, we've talked up, and it's true.

We add more to that. Not safe for work, NSFW. NISFU, or NISFU. NISFU. Yes. And NisFUr reminds me of something very funny that you used to do all the time. Our pads are personal access display devices, the little pads we'd get information from. Yes.

And Robbie McNeil on set was the first person to call it a padd Did it spell B-A-D-D so I would in fact, I was talking to Ethan Phillips about that just recently and he said the very first time he realized that I was a troublemaker and going to be some fun is when we were doing a scene together and the shot was on him early on and I had the line that had pad in it and so I wasn't on camera he was the one on camera right I said something about the pad did he looked at me and i he was like i can't believe he just did that on my shot uh but i did so yeah oh my god all right so this week's episode is uh i have the needle so um yes i have the needle i absolutely know what that's about that episode because i have such a good memory that episode is

about Tom Paris learning how to sew. And it was about the needle that he used to sew, because nobody knows this, but Tom Paris made all of the uniforms by hand. And that episode, I think, was about how he started making the uniforms with this magic needle. You know what? You are a master craftsman. So you're jumping a little ahead of ourselves because we're, we're.

So for those of you who are with us on Patreon, we're going to play a little game of what do we remember. And of course, those of you who are not on our Patreon patrons, you've just got a little dose of that. And for everyone else, we'll be right back with our recap after this break. Okay, guys, so we are back from watching Eye of the Needle. Story by Hilary J. Bader, teleplay by Bill Diaz and Jerry Taylor, so not Michael Pillar like we were thinking.

and directed by Rick Colby and I know when you watch the screen guys you see you don't see Rick you see W-I-N-R-C-H so that's the German way of saying That is Wynrich Vinich Vinich

As many times as I went up to Rick Winich Colby would say and one more time and action he'd say like yeah he had this German accent very classic

the old German Hollywood director. We loved Rick Colby. His accent was not as heavy as you. You did, you did a Hogan's Heroes. I did Hogan's Heroes. Yes, I'm a Hogan's Heroes fan. Yes, but what's so great about Rick was that he would always make these jokes, like he would try to lighten up the mood of the set. I remember he would make these really cheesy kind of dad jokes, you know, but they were still funny. They lightened the tone, and I think it's smart for any director to sort of I'm light in the mood on the set, and that's something that I want to commend you, Robbie, because when you direct, and I've been around you, I've been around you when you've been directed, Chuck and other episodes of Voyager, obviously. And you have that down to a T. You bring a little portable speaker with you. You play music, but you do things to ease it, right? I like it to be, you know what, I feel like if the environment is welcoming and warm and relaxed,

that the actors are going to feel more relaxed, they're going to do a better job. You know, I really do. And having been an actor and you or an actor, you know how this feels like if it's stressful, if the environment is like people yelling and it's really uptight, then it's hard to feel safe enough to do it. good performance. So yeah, I like to have a warm, fun, but professional. Like, we got a job to do. We definitely have a job to do, but why not have fun doing it. I mean, that's why we decided to do this as a career and work in this business was to be creative and to have fun. Yeah, and it's so true.

I mean, you could also relate that to sports, like a golf swing or a basketball free throw. The more relaxed you are, the more chance that you're going to. to succeed and it's definitely the case for actors too. And when you're up tight, you don't do your best work. Yeah, I actually think it's true for any career. I think I've talked to a lot of different people if you're a scientist and you're trying to figure out some kind of breakthrough, like sometimes the best thing I've heard is to kind of try to meditate, clear your mind, think about, you know, take a walk because it's when the brain sort of digs into the subconscious, the place that we can't really control.

and we get calm enough, that's when the good stuff comes out. So I think for any career, that kind of approach, or at least giving yourself, sometimes you've got to do the hard work, and it's not fun. You just got to dig in and do it. But giving yourself the time and space when you can to relax and clear your mind and find inspiration somehow. Over the years, Robbie, I've gone to Germany, and you've done Germany conventions also as well. I've been to Germany probably close to two dozen times now.

And, you know, I pride myself in pronouncing words, especially names. Like, and his name, every time I went to Rick Colby, I said, so is this how you say it? And I'd say, Wynrich, and he's like, close, but no. I go, Wynrich, and he's like, close, but not exactly. And he would do that to me every time. He was very funny. Yeah, he's a funny guy. And I just want to take the second before we dive into this episode.

I feel like, you know, it would be a disservice to our listeners if we don't have, if we don't bring up things that we think about after the fact. Like, for instance, from the episode of The Phage, when you were talking about your slap of the doctor, that you would have done that over, right? Yeah. Like, I'm trying to watch that. And holy moly, you just, it was the lightest, like, you were like, you were like, hi.

Like that, it was, it was so slow. God, you were so right. You should have just like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah. And punches, which would have been hilarious. Well, I think part of it was also because it was a visual effect, because it had to go through him that, you know, he was,

they had to photograph him there and then have him out, and I had to sort of go as if he was there. So it was a very, you know, that's another thing. I mean, you know, you and I actually did a workshop at my acting studio in Atlanta. What, a year ago or more? Yeah, yeah. Something like that. And David Bieden, who's one of the owners and visual effects supervisors from a company called Kosa Visual Effects, which is an amazing award-winning visual effects company. And he's a good friend of mine. So Garrett, David Beden, and myself gave a acting class on acting with visual effects because it's not always easy.

So the slap that you're talking about is a great example of, you know, I think I could have done that slap better, even though there was a visual effects challenge of not having anyone there. And, you know, they had to get it right in the frame at a certain height and a certain, on a certain mark that was, I had to imagine. Yet I think it would have been nice to have done a few different versions of that. You know, maybe one where I really swung through hard or went at it a couple of things. a couple of times and then maybe even sort of waved at it like he's not a physical being. He's a hologram. So that, I don't know, there might have been something more we could have done there. That's why I would have done a do-over. Yeah. And, you know, I think people have to give us a little

leeway just because that stuff's new to us as well. I mean, if we're, if we're used to doing you know, Macbeth, when we're in theater school and college or whatever, and then you come out and then they tell you, okay, you can't just slap. You have to be so technically minded about height of the slap, your eyeline, and you're considering all these things that it actually takes away from the real slap because if you do it too fast for the camera, that's not good. And so it had to be the exact speed, the exact height. Slow enough that it was reed that it's going through. It would read. Yes. So that was that was probably why, yeah, you're right. And we and honestly, we may have done 10 different versions of it. And for whatever reason,

the editors and the producers chose that version. I don't pick that one. Yeah, maybe there were, if I were making the choice, maybe I would have chosen a different take. But acting with visual effects is definitely a different skill. And I thought when we did that workshop at my acting studio last year, I thought it was really effective, you know, and helping the actors and talking about the things you have to imagine.

or you're talking about techno babble, you know, how do you ground that kind of dialogue into something that feels authentic and tangible and so, yeah, exactly. So we came into this episode, the last episode, Captain Janeway thought maybe there was coffee in that nebula in the last episode. She was like, yes, let's go and get some energy in that nebula. So that's where we're coming from is that episode. We come into this episode and Harry, found a wormhole and and Tom Paris even says I think we should name it the Harry Kim

wormhole and when I heard that today when I watched the episode I heard that it was just awkward that was just an awkward I recorded my moment is in reaction to that line exactly so you're a line by the way yeah yeah the Harry Kim wormhole it just sounds inappropriate and awkward. It's just even awkward for me to say now. So yeah, but actually the truth is that's a big deal. Like we're very early in our, we're lost in the Delta Quadrant. We're early on this journey and you're the guy who's going to give us the first opportunity. You discover the beginnings of the first opportunity we might get home. So that was really exciting and a big deal, a big deal for your character, I thought. Yeah, I was definitely trying to go for

rookie of the year on the ship what I'm looking at yeah so Kim finds it and then we find out obviously that it is a micro wormhole it's a 30 centimeters 30 centimeters yeah which also wants me I want to bring something up Robbie did you notice this is the second time we referred to um a quantitative or a measure of something in metric oh okay we talked about that before someone someone else said something, but we mentioned meters as well. But centimeters is not what we would say in this country, in the United States. We would say inches, feet, you know what I'm saying? We're the only, we're the only first world country that is not on the metric system. I know. Right. But start. Although you, you and I know Canada very well. I've worked up there a lot. And the people in

Canada, even though they're on the metric system, when it comes to talking about their, like, their property lines on their house, they all. always say feet. Oh, it's about 120 foot lot. And I'm like, I've said to them in Canada, I'm like, well, wait a minute. Aren't you on metric? Like how many meters? They're like, I don't know, it's weird. They're like, like I talk about gas and liters, but I talk about my, my yard or, you know, like those kind of measurements in feet. I don't know why. That is funny. Yeah, they're sort of a hybrid sort of havesy, half, half see, half. It's because they're on the same landmass as we are. That's probably why.

Is the U.S. Yeah, yeah. But the one thing they do stick to is temperature for the weather. They definitely do not do Fahrenheit. And they don't even understand Fahrenheit. It's funny. They understand feet as opposed to meters for their yard. But when you say, wait, 14 Celsius, what is that, you know, I ask them, what is that in Fahrenheit? And they're like, I don't know. I don't know, maybe. I don't hold that against them because I can't even figure out that conversion. Either way, I can't go from Celsius to Fahrenheit and I can't go from Fahrenheit to Celsius. So it's not easy.

All right. So we find a wormhole. It's 30 centimeters. And then I say to you again, or I say to someone, I say, boy, that's the smallest wormhole I've ever seen. And I thought to myself, how many wormholes has Tom Parris seen? Like, when did he become the wormhole guy? Like, we're going to name it the hairy,

Kim wormhole and wow, that's the smallest wormhole I've ever seen. I don't know. That just jumped out at me like, wow. We go to the sick bay. The officer is treating the doctor very rudely. Lieutenant Baxter, Tom Virtue was the guest actor. Lieutenant Baxter, I loved that storyline, that character because again, the doctor enters this series in such a beautiful way. the story is laid out so so perfectly and so humanly and there's a lot of moments we'll talk about with the doctor's story in here but yeah i thought i thought tom virtue was great as baxter why didn't we see him again you know i don't think he ever came back they don't even call him as baxter they don't call it they don't say his name they just say lieutenant yeah so for you to have baxter is that's good

you did your homework i did a little homework we went and watched this um i thought i thought i thought Tom Virtue was wonderful, and I've seen him as a character actor in lots of things. And it's funny that we didn't, there weren't a lot of characters that recurred on our show, that, you know, crew members that were smaller roles that came back. CESCA obviously had a big thing. We didn't have a lot of them. So that was somebody I thought he was so good. I wish we had brought him back.

But anyway. It is odd, you know, especially for the size of the crew complement of that ship. You should have seen him once for sure. Because part of me felt like, well, Who is this guy talking crap to the doctor? Like, I would have been more invested. If I had seen him in engineering or I'd seen him somewhere, you know, seen him in the mess hall, we'd had a little moment or something.

Then I would have been more invested because I like later on, we'll get there, but I like later on what drives the captain to go talk to him is this idea that the whole ship is talking crap about the doctor. So Tom Virtue, this guy who wasn't really established as a regular, had to carry that story and kind of speak for the whole crew. It would have been nice if either he had been more involved or if more of us had been a part of that story as well. Yeah.

After Sickbay, we go to conference room. Do we call it the conference room, the meeting room? What was it on the call sheet? What did you call that room where we all had the... Well, now you just got me confused. I think we called it. Yeah, the briefing room, briefing room. Briefing room.

I'm sitting here writing down. I go, it's not the conference room. No, it's not. No, you had me confused for a minute. The briefing room. I did. And I just wanted to say, I just wanted all the fans out there to know that I was always nervous for these briefing room scenes, mainly because you're at, it's sort of like, it's not your home. It's not your home base. You know, the home base is the bridge. Like my little operations area, I felt the most comfortable in. And anytime we were on this set with just that big conference table, there was just less protection of, you know, my actual console wasn't there protecting me. I'm sitting right. next to all of you.

It's also a little claustrophobic in that room. It was not as big as it looks on screen. It was much smaller. And so you get the crew in there and the cameras in there. And it always felt like, and there was only one door to the bridge and one door up the back and that was it. You felt a little like trapped.

Yeah, that's true. And it gets hot in there. But mainly, I really, I just wanted to impress the rest of you guys. I just wanted to make sure that you guys were like, okay, yeah, the young kids doing it. You know, so I just, I was the most nervous filming scenes in the briefing. And also sitting on those chairs, I didn't know, should I sit, should I sit leaned in?

Should I actually lean all? Because if you watch that episode, Bala's totally just, she's lounging. She's back up against the back of her chair and I'm a little bit more forward. So then you have to make those choices as an actor, like where are you going to be. But I thought, sometimes you have to make that choice because if she doesn't sit back, she'll block you, you know, wherever the camera is. That's true. That's probably, that's honest.

Honestly, that's probably why you were leaned forward there and she was leaned back. The director or the camera operators would often tell us, you know, hey, I'm lining up this shot. And for everybody to be clear, you've got to sit back and you've got to lean forward. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. We go to engineering. You have a nice little backstory with Bologna.

You find out from her conversation with Kim that she really has nobody waiting for her back at earth, which is kind of sad, to be honest. and her mother's on, you know, on the Klingon home world. The father, she hasn't spoken to since she was five. It's just she has nobody except for her marquee friends. You, right before we get into that scene, you have a line where you're talking to the captain and you say, I can modify our subspace communications band

to accept the probe as a booster. And you're really enthusiastic. And then the captain says, do it or something. And I felt like you were going to say, warp particles. It was kind of like you did a fist pump. and you were like, you're like, I can do it as a booster. And she says, do it.

You were like, I'd warp like a fist pump. And I wanted you to say, warp part, like every time we come up with a good idea, for those of you who've listened since the first episode of this podcast, you know what I'm talking about, if we just yelled out, warp particles, I think that that would be awesome. So you had a good warp particles. A work particle moment. Okay, that's good to know.

But, you know, that, yeah, that fist was a very, it was subtle. right? It wasn't a big fist thing. It was. I was exaggerating because I was trying to be funny, but yeah. I do think it's funny thinking about me pulling, you know, doing the same fist thing that Tiger Woods when he sinks a long putt. He's like, he does this thing. Maybe if I did that. That would have been, that would be cool. Maybe that'll be your do-over. We'll see. Maybe. Okay. I did like Balana calling you Starfleet. Why did we give that up? She should have called you Starfleet for seven years. Okay. I'm going to talk about this now. She called me Starfleet in the pilot episode, right?

I called her, what did I call her? Mucky or something. Call me Starfleet. So that was cute. In here, after I get the idea right, I kind of pat Boulana on the shoulder a little bit later on. There's some, you know, I thought that Kim and Bala were going to be the item. I didn't think, in my wildest dream. Yes, I did.

In my wildest dream, I thought there's no, you know, if you were to tell me right now and I'm watching Voyager for the first time and you're going to tell me as a fan and I'm not the actor and you'd say hey guess what that paris character ends up marrying balana's character i'm like no no way i don't do that at all and then for if you were to say kim has the old you know younger man older woman relationship which you never see in television that would have been great to have that dynamic i definitely think that the seeds kim torres i think that tom paris was a younger man for balana too i mean Do you? I think he was a little, no, I don't know.

Not much. I would say, you're... No, no, I think they were, they were about the same. Yes, they were, they were. But, yeah. I was all, I mean, I'm still a very young man. You are, you're not an old man. But I would say you're more contemporary with her than I would have been, right?

Yes, yes, I think so. Okay. Because even though we were four years apart, because having this Asian genetics, I probably looked like I was 12 on the first season. You look like you're about 13 now. Yeah, I look like 13 now, so 12 back. Yeah. That would have been great.

By the way, it looked like you were running the show in engineering, and I thought that was kind of cool. That was fun. I was very cool. Yeah, it looked like I was nice to see Harry kind of, you know, kind of calling the shots in this one. And ultimately, I think, you know, well, we'll get there. But I think that this whole story was really good for your character.

Bala, you're right. I could have seen a budding romance between Harry and Bellana for sure. I think this episode certainly, and with what happened in the pilot, I'm sort of sharing that experience. Bala hasn't seen her dad since she's five years old. And dad went back to Earth, she says, and mom is on the Klingon Homeworld, maybe. She doesn't even know.

Right, she doesn't know. Yeah, all of a sudden, that little bit of backstory for her made a lot of sense of why she was with the marquee and so many things. And I didn't remember that little detail, even though I married the woman. I didn't remember. Also, when you see this on the bridge, I think it's the first time you see Janeway's console retract.

I had the same thing. You have that note also, yeah. And that's, you know, people always wonder, they always ask me like, well, what was the bridge like? Was everything moving around and part moving stuff? And I said, well, really, no, just Janeway's console was the only thing that moved on the, the whole set. I remember when this move the first time, Kate was like, well, where's the button

for it? And there wasn't, they, they didn't design a button. So if you notice, she just touches the top of it as if that's doing something. It's really a guy with a remote control offstage hitting, hitting the up button and the down button. She just touches as if it's like a touch thing because there was no, there was no like up and down button for her. Yeah. She should have She should have went, Al-Qazam, open sesame. And then it just, one voice reaction, you know, or some Harry Potter patroness, some type of Harry Potter spell to open up. It looked to me like when she pushed it, almost like if you're in your car,

when you open up the glove box between the seats. Yes, yes. It looks like that because she's sort of pushed it. Yeah, push it, and it just kind of comes up. So that's pretty funny. That's cool. I didn't know that. That's something I didn't know.

There's no button. No button. She just touches the leather, the leather on the top of the thing, and it magically opens. By the way, so when Cass goes to talk to Janeway later on about the doctor, Kest has worked about the doctor. She's concerned. And she goes into Janeway's office, and Janeway says, can I get you something from my replicator? And Kess goes, yes, please, spinach juice with a touch of pear.

She says, Tom Paris introduced me to it. What? when when did i when did i when did i drink spinach when did tom paris ever drink a health juice ever he drank he drank you know alcohol i'm sure and things like that but i just that that was a funny little detail like why would tom paris teach her about a spinach juice with pear but that's funny i wrote that down here as well and now and now thinking about it as you're talking about it instead of saying your name she should have said lieutenant is it baxter that the the guy played yeah because remember baxter's in sickbay because of all the workouts he's doing like he's constantly working out so to have

a healthy drink that would have made sense let me this drink but yes you were the one hey garrett have you been traveling this summer oh my gosh so much already i don't always travel but this summer's been insane trip after trip you've been doing your impersonation of me yes you know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans though what getting burned by your old wireless bill so while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back well that is why i made the switch to mint mobile the coverage and speed are the same as i'm used to but the savings that is the difference the savings are incredible and now i'm saving all kinds of money for when my stepdaughter wants to go back to school shopping she's currently at the mall right now as we speak well

all the Mint Mobile plans come with high-speed data, unlimited talking tax, and they deliver the nation's largest 5G network. So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash TDF. That's mintmobile.com slash TDF. Up front payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra see mint mobile for details but it's also interesting because now this this touches upon your real life you are the mixologist of the delta flyers and you're doing videos of mixing drinks and here we are talking about your drink uh prowess on voyager

yes i'm going to name this drink the cess now during the covers just with a touch a pair shake it up strain it into a nice a nice marked tinie glass and you have the Kess. The Kess. Hey, if we ever open a restaurant together, we're going to offer this drink and call it the Kess. Okay. So I think in this speech right here,

this is sort of the hidden message, really. Janeway says that they've been talking about reprogramming the doctor because the whole meeting between Kess and Janeway is for her to express her concerns about how they've been treating the doctor. Janeway says they've been talking about reprogramming him. Kess says, you can't, you can do that. It doesn't seem right.

Janeway says, well, he's only a hologramed. Kest says, he's your medical officer. He's alive. Janeway says, no, he's not. And then she says, Kess, he's self-aware. He's communicative. He has the ability to learn. And Janeway says, well, because he's been programmed to do that.

And Kess replies with, so because he's a hologram, he doesn't have to be treated with respect or any consideration at all. And I think really, you know, the hidden meaning, really for me is don't just talk about holograms, just talk about certain people, right? There's certain people that people take advantage of and take or just really, not necessarily take advantage, but

you don't really consider. And I just think about in California, there are so many people that are working as housekeepers, you know, that are immigrants, are non, English is not their first language that a lot of these people that are part of the establishment really just look upon these people as subhuman as really like you know you're just you know just it's the same way that we look at the doctor as a hologram there are human beings now that look at other human beings as being the holograms you know what I'm saying so I kind of I felt that that was really

the true message for me at least from this episode from that conversation interesting yeah I had the same moment. That was a pretty important moment for our series. It's a turning point for Janeway, who's sort of representing the, she's the voice of our ship. She's the leader of the ship. She sort of expresses, oh yeah, he's, he's just a hologram. He was programmed that way. Like, she hasn't really up until this point considered that he's a member of the crew. Right. That he should be treated as a member of the crew, and I think Kess's empathy for him and her pleading with Janeway sort of turns that, and then the conversation later on. Yeah, I was really surprised to hear her say, well, we'll just reprogram it. I mean, that would have been, can you imagine if we just kept

reprogramming and had a different doctor, different actor playing a, you know, the doctor who? It would be like Doctor Who. Yeah, but that's what she was sort of implying is like, oh, yeah, he's just interchangeable. Yeah. Did you catch, Robbie, did you catch that, there's a segue between a bridge and sick bay. The segue scene, just a shot of Voyager sitting there in space. This is after we've tried to, you know, reach out to that transmission that we don't hear very well. And it's just Voyager, but you hear this engine running. It's like, hmm, did you catch that?

It was just to me it was odd just to have that sort of sound going on, you know, but maybe they needed something to fill that space, audio. I know that, I know when we used to go into Lue, looping in things. And when I directed, I go to the sound mix. There is an engine. There's a ship sound that they keep under almost every scene when we're on the ship. And it's this sort of humming, humming noise. Yeah, maybe that's what I heard. Yeah. Okay. There was one moment when Janeway just spit out some techno babble, you know, simply deconstruct the phase frequency. I couldn't even write it all down. It was just like there was a whole scene where everybody started

spitting out techno babble. And I was just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, oh my God. Everybody's, everybody's so smart. So you were thinking, wow, everyone's so smart. And I'm sitting here piloting this ship, is the reaction to you. I never, you'll never hear Thomas Parris spit out techno babble because I was horrible in it. Oh, God.

In sick bay, I don't know, when the doctor says, I was right in the middle of preparing a culture to test Lieutenant Hargrove for Arethian flu when Ensign Kyoto Di deactivated me. When he says that, did coronavirus come into your head? No, I didn't. When Janeway, yeah, Janeway goes in there and yeah, it activates him to talk to him and she gives him, she talks about giving him control over his deactivation sequence. But when he's talking about that testing for the flu, I immediately was like, oh, oh, that's funny. I think that scene was really important to me, the Janeway doctor scene, because it's the very first time besides Kess who's just sort of she's an alien and she's she's observing his humanity

and learning to empathize with him but it's the first time anyone on our crew has really interacted with him in that way and giving him this choice of of control over his his activation or deactivation is um yeah it's a big step it's a really big step and it just occurs to me just jumping to the end because he says something about make sure someone deactivates me before you leave if you guys do get through this wormhole, if you do get transported through it. So I guess this is still on the table, right? Yeah. I assumed as soon as she said it, of course he's going to be able to.

But in this episode, I don't think that gets resolved. I could be wrong, but I don't remember it getting resolved that he's now controlling it because. Right, it hasn't been resolved yet, right? No, no. So we'll see next week, I guess. Yeah, but just that whole scene, Bob Picardo did a great job because he's just so subtle and you can just see when Janeway talks to him and he's realizing like, oh my gosh, this is the captain and she's giving me the time of day.

She has made me a member of the crew. I'm not just an emergency program. I'm a member of the crew. And when she, you know, when she says, I'm going to think about giving you your chance the deactivation, you know, control of your deactivation sequence and she walks out, he just looks at her. And it just, it's just a really, really, really well-newanced scene by Bob Picardo, I felt. Yeah, I agree. Jane weighs quarters. Okay, let's talk about this. Oh, my God. About that hair. Oh, my God. The night gown. First of all, yeah, she wakes up. She gets a creepy

call. Okay, imagine from me. She gets a creepy call from you. And then, hey, there's some stranger that wants to talk to you while you're in your negligee. It's creepy. Then she sits up and she's got more hair than Rapunzel. Like, I've never seen so much hair and it's beautifully quaffed right out of like a spelling, an Aaron spelling, you know, nighttime soap opera. It was, it was more hair than I've ever seen in my life. And then she's in this very kind of feminine negligent, you know, sleeping gown.

Yeah. And then. They're talking, and then they get to the point where he says, well, I don't know if I can trust you unless I can look at you. What? It was so sexualized. I'm sorry, that scene was like, I was like, why is she talking to this strange man in her bedroom like this and then talking about, well, I want to see you? I'm sorry, I just, that's all I could think of was this is inappropriate. Okay.

I felt that the the inclusion of that nightgown was really a way of them to just to show her feminine side, her lighter side, I suppose. But I did have notes on the hair. And just so everyone knows, that's a wig.

Just like they put a wig on Kess, Janeway had a wig. Janeway's real hair color is reddish in color, right? But you never see it because it's always been a wig. And to have those long, flowing, locks that are perfectly quaffed while she's sleeping was, you know. I found a lot, I found a lot of things in that scene distracting. Yeah, the wig was,

was just too much. It was overdone. On that note, about exterior, you know, about one's exterior or outside looks, I don't know if you've heard this before, but I've come across more than one fan at a convention who has said the same thing, and that is, your cast is too good looking. Have you ever heard that before? I've heard that a lot. I know. I could never hear that too much. Oh, you're too good looking.

Please, no, stop, don't. No. No, I actually have not heard that. I'm just saying, if you go across the board, if you start with the captain, facially speaking, she is a very attractive Irish American woman, okay? Her features, everything are in sync,

everything. I mean, she's a very, she has a very pretty face, attractive face. Listen, Ethan Phillips, Ethan Phillips is a gorgeous, gorgeous hunk of masculinity. As far as character actors, they are. They are. They're very handsome men. Robert Picardo and Ethan Phillips, yes, I was teasing because of the prosthetics. We've got a handsome Latino first officer. As far as Latino actors are concerned, he's a handsome devil. You're a handsome white guy, you know, for a young white man. Thank you. And then, you know, with Mike, funny enough, Ensign.

You're a very handsome white guy, too? Thank you so much. Edson Kim was mistaken by this one girl that was when she was young, she told me at a convention, she said, I watched Voyager, and for the first seven years, I'm very embarrassed to tell you. But I thought your character's name was not Ensign Kim. I thought it was handsome Kim

for the first seven years that she watched Voyager which is hilarious because then you start thinking about every time that Janeway or anyone else is talking to me and if Janeway said Ensign status apart

this seven year old girl heard handsome status aboard so I'm handsome to everybody but you know across the board all the way to our Vulcan our resident Vulcan sorry I digress yeah as as uncomfortable

as I was in that bedroom scene where he needs to look at her. I actually thought the theme of this episode came out in that scene with Janeway sort of making family and friends and our loved ones and the people that were connected to the most important mission that she had.

And I thought that's a great lesson to me because, and it sort of plays out throughout the episode is that yes, even though, you know, we have Starfleet missions to do and there's, and there's, you know, things to figure out with this wormhole to get back, just anything she can do to connect

her crew to the people they love. That's the most important mission to her. And even later on when we get to the point where our hearts are broken, she still wants to make it a priority that people get

our communications and know that we're okay and connect family. So to me that was that was the mission that was the theme of the episode to me yeah and really that that was her way of persuading the romulan to help us because in that bridge that on-screen transmission between the romulan and janeway janeway does sort of plead to his sense of family about his own family you know she asked him like hey you know do you have a family and he's like yep i have a wife i have a kid i've been away for how old your kid seven months i've been away for a year on this mission. So Janeway's like, oh my God, you haven't even seen your daughter yet.

And so that, I think pulling on his heartstrings was really what got him to go, okay, because typically, you know, Romulan and Federation relations have never, have always been strained. So to have this connection, you're right, it was definitely a strong theme throughout this is the theme of family. Yeah. Let's see, Captain's Reading Room. Balana informs the Captain that we might be able to beam people over to the Alpha Quadrant, which is a huge, huge discovery on the part of Bolana. Well, it's a game changer. I mean, I think, and by the way, I think, you know, the science work that Harry and

Balana do in this episode is transformative. Like, they're inventing things that have never been done before in terms of science and space travel. You know, first of all, communication through something. like this 30 centimeter wormhole and then using the transporter energy to piggyback. It's just, it's very creative and a great twist in turn, just plot-wise for the episode, but also pretty profound for those two characters. It says a lot about what amazing scientists and what amazing minds that those two characters have.

Right. We have the scene in Sick Bay where Kess tells the doctor that we might be transporting to the Alpha Quadrant. That was very sad to me. Very sad, yeah. And his response is, you know, well, I'll say goodbye now. I won't be transporting with the rest of you. And we feel for him. And so that's the first time you really realize that, oh, my gosh, this character is,

the character development is just getting to you because you do care about that. You do feel bad for him that he's going to be left behind in the Delta Quadrant, right? And he's got so many twists and turns in this episode. You know, he starts off being ignored. and then the captain comes in and he's treated like finally he's treated like an equal member of the crew and then now Kess is saying

oh we're leaving oh now he's not a real member of the crew because he can't come back with him so it's like a yo-yo emotionally for him it's structured by the writers really really well I think I thought it was kind of very quick of him to volunteer

to beam over to Voyager and then back after just Basically, one test of beaming over that one cylinder and made this guy go, yeah, I'm good. I'm fine with being beamed all the way to the Delta Quadrant. I don't know if that bothered you or not, but I felt that was a little odd. Yeah, no, I went with it. Transportor Room, Telecrimor beams in. Tuvok spoils the party by discovering the reason for the phase variance that he is from another time.

To me, again, I'm going to repeat what I just said about you and believe. Lana, but game changer, the technology and the creativity you guys had, but then the fact that you did this through time, you know what I mean? It's like we've just figured out a trick to time travel here. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, timeline stories were always hard for me as an actor to wrap my head around. They're interesting as a viewer. It is. And I find it interesting that Tuvok basically spoils the party twice. First, we discover he's from the wrong time. And then after he beams back successfully with our messages,

then Tuvok's like, oh, by the way, Captain Janeway, he dies four years before he's supposed to send the messages. So it's a double whammy for the crew. Yeah. Yeah, it was heartbreaking. And I think that Romulan, you know, was a good guy. I think Vonne Armstrong did a great job. Yeah, he did a one.

wonderful job in that role. Von Armstrong has done a lot of Star Trek. I was just looking. He was a number of characters on our show. Well, he was a Videan captain. He was an Alpha Hirogyn. He was Teletra Moore. He was Lancer, two of nine.

Yeah. He was Korath in Endgame. I mean, so many characters on our show. He's just done a ton of. of great Star Trek work. So I didn't realize how much he had done. He's really prolific. DS9, his work on DS9.

Well, the funny thing about Vaughn, Vaughn and I were actually at a convention in England, and we were hanging out. And I said, did you do Voyager at all? Because you've done something? And he's like, well, yes. And I said, what episode? and he says, I played Telekrimor

and I go, oh my God, and this is like, man, two or three years ago, that I realized that that was him, you know? And I said, oh, God, Vaughn, you did a great job. And you really did. And I had no clue that that was Vaughn. Because sometimes, you know, actors come in and they come in so early to do prosthetics

and make up if they're alien and they leave after we all do that we never get to see their bases, right? So when a lot of times, because we didn't have prosthetics on, we'd come in much later. So the guest stars would already be in the chair. They'd have most of their rubber on their face.

So I often never knew what some of these actors look like that were playing our guest stars. No clue. Never met them. No clue. We'd come in after they were in the makeup and we'd leave before they got it off. Yeah.

Long days on the set. My last thing I would say is I thought it was great with a doctor at the end having the sort of lesson that he learned of speaking directly. He said, you know, he said, you know, if I'm the, I'm the senior doctor here, senior medical officer, if you have a question, direct it to me or speak directly to me or something. And the guy goes, oh, and then he, you know, and then he asked the doctor. But I thought that was an interesting lesson in life.

Like instead of getting, you know, your feelings hurt and acting passive aggressive and being, you know, sarcastic and rude and all. the things that the doctor often had been with people because he was feeling, and I get why, he was feeling disrespected or whatever, but when he actually just spoke up directly to the lieutenant and said, speak to me, I'm right here, speak to me. If he had done that earlier, he probably would have saved himself a lot of grief. So it was a good lesson for me. Like, yeah, just speak up. Like, don't harbor resentments. Very true. That's a good lesson. And then he asked at the very end that he would like a name, which is kind of cool, that he's getting self-aware more and more each

episode. Back to Vaughn Armstrong and Telekrimor. Watching this episode was good for me because I finally realized there's a story that I've been talking about. When I'm at conventions, I will joke about the weirdest line that Harry Kim has ever uttered out of his mouth. And I always thought it was from this episode, but as I watched it, it's not from this episode because it's on the bridge, the line that I'm referring to, it's on the bridge. And Janeway says to me, Harry, did the probe go through? And I look at her and I say, like a snake through a tube, Captain. That's my freaking crazy ass line. And that is not in this episode. So this must have been a later episode where Janeway says that. So I just want to throw that out there for anybody listening who has heard

me talk about this at a convention. That like a snake through a tube. Yeah. Yeah. You guys out there listening, you can use that saying anytime you want. Just if somebody asks you a question, just even if it makes no sense, just say, oh, yeah, like a snake through a tube and see how they react. Let's try this. I'm going to ask you. Robbie, what time is it?

What time is it? Oh, the time? Yeah. It's like a snake through a tube. You're welcome. Yes. You are so welcome. All righty.

So I guess that is the end of our recap of Eye of the Needle. Yes, it is. So that is the end of this episode. Join us next week when we will be reviewing and discussing ex post facto.