The Delta Flyers - Favor the Bold

Starting point is 00:00:10 Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, Garrett Wong, and myself, Terry Farrell. Hello! Well, hello! I made me think of Seinfeld. Wasn't there a belly button thing? he went, I wasn't trying to imitate that.

Starting point is 00:00:44 I just gave it a flourish. And if it sounded like Seinfeld, so be it. No, he has a flourish. Look at the whole gang is here. Wow. Again. I know. It's been a while, too.

Starting point is 00:00:53 Thank you for coming on, Armin. Yes, thank you for coming on, Terry. Thank you. Well, it's my week, so I'm glad you're here. Yes. Well, it's my year because you're here. Oh, that's so cute. How's everybody doing?

Starting point is 00:01:09 Good. Good. Yeah, pretty good. Any highlights in life? Well, I want to say tear fare sounds and looks 100% better than she did last time we recorded, and she was dealing with the beginning parts of her illness. So you're better than you were. I'm so much better now, yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:28 It's just that lingering stuff, but it's not bad. You look great, and that background with all the colors behind you look very, yeah, stylish. You know, in my region, I'm sorry to say this in my research about cancer. It looks like a cancer cell. Oh, my gosh. Oh, interesting. I don't want to change my background now. Sometimes things that are not palpable are sometimes very beautiful. It's interesting you say that. I remember Dan Curry talking about how they used microscopic images sometimes for visual effects for nebulas or weird things. Yeah, they kind of combine

Starting point is 00:02:07 these microscopic, amplified, you know, mix them together and distort them. So, yeah. Well, Dan Curry certainly had his hands full with this episode. He had a lot to do. He did. Yes, visual effects did a lot in this episode. And this is only part one of a very exciting battle

Starting point is 00:02:26 that happens, I guess, in the next episode, maybe. I hope so. I don't think I've ever seen as many ships in one space shot. Robbie, you have news for us. I do? Yeah. Three days from now, something's going to happen. What would that be?

Starting point is 00:02:44 Oh, well, this little show I worked on, it's a spinoff of the Big Bang Theory, is going to premiere on HBO Max. It's called Stuart Fails to Save the Universe on July 23rd. Woohoo! Jonathan Frakes directed a couple of episodes in the middle. I directed the last two episodes of the season,

Starting point is 00:03:04 the finale episodes. but it's a fun show great characters from the Big Bang Theory Stuart of course and Denise and Kripke and Bert are stars those characters are the stars I love that because they were more recurring in the prior version they were like the lower deckers yeah now they've all been promoted yeah I love it it's like Cullum Columini yeah yes exactly exactly so yeah check it out Stewart fails to say the universe July 23rd premiere, check it out. We'll all be watching. All right. We also have some birthdays, starting with Robé.

Starting point is 00:03:41 Yes, we do. I have to shout out to Anna Post on July 21st. Happy birthday, Anna. Anna Post, happy, happy birthday. I hope it's amazing. Anna Post, what she said. Anna, dear, dear Anna, happy, happy, happy birthday to you on the East Coast. And next we have Lauren Rivers, July 23rd. Happy birthday, Lauren Rivers. Happy birthday, Lauren Rivers.

Starting point is 00:04:11 Lauren, happy birthday. Happy birthday, Lauren. We also have to welcome a new profit. We have a brand new profit from our Patreon patron levels. David Wei Leo. Happy, happy, happy prophetness, I guess. Welcome, welcome. Happy you're joining us.

Starting point is 00:04:30 David, welcome, welcome. You've made all of us more profitable. Thank you. Spoken like a true Ferengi. Yes. Welcome, David. We're glad you're here. Poem, Brave, and the Bold.

Starting point is 00:04:49 On a razor's thin edge, we evade retreat. Fighting for our home looks impossible. Brave and bold, we must engage our fleet. To reclaim home, we must be unstoppable. Excellent. My gosh, thank you. That was excellent. an unstoppable for a rhyming word.

Starting point is 00:05:13 That's very ambitious. With impossible. Yeah. Thank you. All right. I'm going to give you my limerick now for favor the bold. Here we go. Kira grew angrier each day while Dukot kept plotting away.

Starting point is 00:05:28 Odo watched from afar. Busy with his founder sidebar. What side was he on is quite hard to say? Yes. Excellent. Excellent. Oh, good job. Yeah, very nice.

Starting point is 00:05:43 Thank you. Salomei Jen's character always gives me the hebi-gibi. Well, especially in this episode. She's even more heby-g-b in this one. And I didn't know how to refer to what they were doing, so I just called it a sidebar. I thought that was really... Very creative. Yeah, because they were sitting on the bed, right?

Starting point is 00:06:01 And it was just like, did they? Oh, they did. Yes, because think about it. Well, think about this, too fair. Odo doesn't have a bed in his quarters. He had that moved in there specifically to show her Nookie. She said, but you enjoy this? And it's like, if she's a changeling and they did it, how would she not already know how he feels about it?

Starting point is 00:06:26 No, that's true. That's the hard part about this whole changeling thing, like linking, like, because you would know everything. They seem to indicate in past episodes that there's a way of blocking certain thoughts. So they wouldn't know everything. But I'm sure that sometimes your guard is down and thoughts do get through. I agree. I would think so. Okay.

Starting point is 00:06:48 So here is my haiku for favor of the bold. Time for new tactics. Ram to die, Ziyal protests. Morn the messenger. Nice. Excellent. You know, and I had forgotten that Morn was the messenger. Oh, really?

Starting point is 00:07:07 Oh, yeah. Armand, we have etymology. Yeah, we have a lot of etymology. Oh, boy. Oh, my gosh, a whole page. I love this stuff. Okay, here we go. We start from the beginning.

Starting point is 00:07:20 Where does the phrase fortune favor the bold come from? Answer. The first recorded version of this adage comes from Terrence, a Roman playwright in 161 BC in his play Formio. The Latin for this phrase is Fortis, Fortuna, Uvat, or Fortune favors the brave. It's not quite Fortune Favors the Bold. The exact quotation of Fortune Favors the Bold comes from Virgil, an epic Roman poet who wrote the Aeneid in 19 BC. The Latin is Udesty Fortuna Uvad, or Fortune favors the bold.

Starting point is 00:08:10 So that's where the phrase comes from the Romans, either from Terrence or from Virgil. Okay, now to the animology of the words. Fortune. The word fortune is from the Latin, as I've said already, Fortuna. Or, interesting enough, from, I think it's from the German, could be fair, F-E-R-R-E, which is translated from the German, I believe, to be bare. And we know that Ira Bear had something to do with this episode. The definition is, what is fortune?

Starting point is 00:08:41 Fortune is chance or luck regarded as a cause of events or changes in men's affairs. It was first used as fortune, the English word fortune, in the year 1300. So, Favors is from the Middle French, Favore, or from the Italian, favor. It means, the definition is, favor means, to regard with goodwill, side with, show kindness to, to, to protect, or to protect. It also means a liking or a preference. It's first used in 1340. It also means an inclination to commend, sanction, or adopt. Third word, bold. Bold comes from the Old English and the Teutonic languages. Now, this one I like. Like, in old English, it wasn't pronounced bold. It was pronounced bald, which I kind of like. As it is in the old high German.

Starting point is 00:09:40 It was pronounced the same way in old high German. Whereas in middle high German, it is pronounced Balt, like Baltic, Balt. The definition is of persons stouthearted, courageous, daring, fearless, Terry's character. often said with admiration. This one was first used in English in 1,000 AD. Those are my animology references. Wow. You did some deep research on that. I did. I did. Thank you, Armin. Yes, thank you all. So much so that some of my trivia has already been answered by Armin. Yeah, the Aeneid and the Virgil written, you know, all that in my trivia. But perfect, thank you for that. We have a Patreon submitted poetry winner that is a Limerick submitted by Chris

Starting point is 00:10:27 And so there once was a Vorta named Wei Yun, who never could carry a tune. His sense of aesthetics was really quite pathetic, but he could hear everything in the room. Oh, dress. Very nice. With all due respect to my good friends, I think that one won the award. I do too. Whenever you started a limerick with, there once was, you're already two steps ahead. You're already all in, yes, yes.

Starting point is 00:10:55 Exactly. I wasn't supposed to have a Varta named Wei Yun. And before we go any further, I have to say this. Jeff Combs in this episode is extraordinary. Oh, yes. He is. He is. He's off the scale on this one. I think the acting in this episode all around is really good acting. He has that moment of, I do wish I could carry a tune. And it's just he's tickled. And then it's sort of like, well, that's kind of stupid.

Starting point is 00:11:19 It was just everything that went on in his face was so delicious. It was. Very, very good. description. Okay, we've also got a Patreon-submitted poetry honorable mention poem. It is a haiku submitted by Tim McMitchins. Cisco has a plan. The minefield coming down soon. Rom sentenced to death. Nice, Tim. As my character said, not sentence, but planning, planning to be. Planning. Yes. Oh my gosh. All right. This episode was written by Iris Stephen Bear and Hans Beimler. And David Weedle. I wonder.

Starting point is 00:11:55 Well, he didn't get credit. Yeah, he's not on the thing. But he did. Okay. Directed by Vinrich Kolbe, the Baron as the DS9 actors knew him. The Baron. Yes. We have guest stars.

Starting point is 00:12:07 Andrew J. Robinson is Garrick. Jeffrey Combs as the unbelievable Wayune. Mark Alimaux as Golda Kot, Max Grudenschuk as Rahm. Aaron Eisenberg is Nog. G.G. Herzl. That's Martok. Melanie Smith as Zial. Casey Biggs is DeMarr.

Starting point is 00:12:25 Chase Masterson is Lita. Barry Jenner as Admiral Ross, Salome Gens, as the female changeling. I want to point out something that perhaps has been happening and I just haven't paid attention or didn't notice. For the first half of that cast list that you just announced, not only did it say guest starring so and so, but it also listed their character as Rom, as No,

Starting point is 00:12:49 Mar-Togh, as Combs. Not to Mar-Tock. No, nor Martok. Right, but just Garek, Derek Tanag, Garik Tanag was all that was listed on screen as their characters. That's right. And the rest just their names. Exactly. As actors and agents of actors know, agents more than the actors themselves, when you get that little extra bump, that's an negotiated thing.

Starting point is 00:13:10 Or it could be out of the kindness of the writers and the producers. Yeah, it could be. I wonder if it's going to be permanent, if they're going to start doing that. Because you have such a big cast. I was thinking that in this episode, how great the acting is, how many wonderful actors and characters are in the show. It's a lot to keep track of. So I wonder if they're going to start to do that with the credits. And aside from, let's say, Barry, who was a recurring character, or Salomey, who was also a recurring character. The others are incredibly recurring characters.

Starting point is 00:13:41 Yes. Now, let's talk a little bit about trivia here. All right. So when this multi-episode arc was originally conceived, it was four episodes long. But once the writer started to develop the ideas and decide where specific plot points needed to go and how things needed to develop, Iris Stephen Bear changed it to a five-episode arc. For a considerable amount of time, it remained a five-episode narrative, even getting to the stage where titles were being assigned. At that point, favored the bold was the final episode and encompassed the final space battle, the rebellion on D-Space 9, and the Federation's reacquisition of the station. After Bear and co-writer Hans Beimler began to run into trouble, trying to fit everything into 44 minutes, however, Bear realized that one

Starting point is 00:14:22 episode simply could not contain all that was needed to finish off such a large narrative arc. As such, he and Bimler basically split the last episode into two and began to fill it out, thus creating a mini two-parter to conclude the overall six-parter. And if I may, I am just, I love the titles. But for six seasons, I've just enjoyed the titles and gone into deep researchers into the words of the titles. this title doesn't fit this episode. This title probably should be for the next one because the idea of Fortuna favoring the bold,

Starting point is 00:15:03 it doesn't really happen until the very last couple of seconds or minutes of this episode. I think this is more some sort of title that said something about how our characters are going to change. That's what this episode was about, the changes happening with these characters. Yes, because, status quo of the whole attack retreat was also happening on the station, and everybody had to be

Starting point is 00:15:29 brave and make a bold choice to move forward. So I get that. But I, the actual meaning of the saying, I'm with you, Armand, it feels like, oh, too soon. Too soon. We didn't win yet. Every character, including yours, Terry, including mine, all of them went through changes. Yeah. And, and happened a lot. I mean, that's probably why. He couldn't make it a four-episode arc because there was so much happening not only as far as the plot, but as far as the characters themselves. They were making changes. Yeah, it's funny. A lot of times I will look to the title when I'm coming up with like a lesson.

Starting point is 00:16:06 This title did not inform for me the lesson at all. It was much more what you're describing, Armin and Terry, which is the changes these characters went through. But even more specifically, the choices they have to know. Choices, yes. choice. They have to choose which side are you on. Some version of like pick a side would have been a better title for this episode in my opinion. Or in the case of, I'm going to wait too early for this, but in the case in the na slugging Casey, DeMar, that's a choice. That's something that's building up in her, building up in her. And finally she makes the choice to act on it. Yeah. Another bit of

Starting point is 00:16:43 trivia here. This episode started out being, you know, originally based on the 19th, 61 Jay Lee Thompson film, The Guns of Navarone, a film about a mission behind enemy lines to destroy a German weapons depot. So originally the plot of this episode was to involve a covert mission to destroy a catcher-sill white facility deep in Cardassian space. However, during the early stages of rewrites, that mission was relocated to the episode of Time to Stand. Yeah, I was going to say, they just did that. That's right. And Favored the Bold was reformulated. So this is interesting. We dive right in. I was very worried for you, Terry.

Starting point is 00:17:21 It seemed like you guys were, I was like, oh my gosh, the very first scene and they're dead in the water. And they're just going to get, they're going to get destroyed. Everything's going wrong. The defiant is crippled. But we learned that it's acting as a decoy for these two dominions ships that it sort of, you know, baits into position so that wharf can bring the bird of prey around and ambush and

Starting point is 00:17:45 destroy the dominion ships. And even though they're successful, Starfleet orders them to retreat and head back to the station to reinforce the Federation's defensive stance in the war. So you win. The trap worked, but you got to go back. Not happy about that. Yeah, I think this scene is important because it shows that the only way that they can win is to use guerrilla tactics. They can't do head on against the dominion because they're just going to lose, just flat out lose.

Starting point is 00:18:15 So everything has to be this ambush, fake them out one way or another. And it's a very difficult way of fighting if that's all you can do. Yeah. Well, correct me if I'm wrong. It was two ships against two ships. It looked like one. The Defiant was sitting there pretending to be crippled. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:18:33 Pretending. Pretending. But in the end, Terry takes out one of the Dominion ships. The Defiant shoots and destroys one. And the bird of prey destroys one too. So it's two against two. And I also thought, do the Klingons have a cloaking device that they just show up out of nowhere? The Romulans gave us that technology.

Starting point is 00:18:53 It came to the Defiant. I wasn't remembering whether they shared it with anyone else. I know the Romulans originally had it. Regarding the two versus two thing, Armand, I feel like when they were kind of listing in space, they didn't know what they were going to get. They were just trying to attract any dominionship. That's true. That's true. It could have been a dozen. It could have been one. They didn't know.

Starting point is 00:19:13 We were just lacon plasma. Just holding on to things, as Dex says, just hold on to something. Just hold on. When O'Brien says, engage, retreat, engage, retreat. What is that front? It feels like, I don't know, like a Broadway show tune or something. Well, we repeated this a few times during this whole beginning of the war and during it. That might be it.

Starting point is 00:19:33 I literally thought it was a Broadway show tune. I don't know why. Robbie, that's your homework. You're going to take that line and turn it into a Broadway song. Yeah. In the musical, the Broadway musical of Star Trek, the musical. We're going to have a song called Engage Retreat. We go to Cisco's office.

Starting point is 00:19:49 Dax is there. She is frustrated. I'm a little ticked off. He's not. No, he's Mr. Cool. He knows what the plan is. He says, we need a new plan, and I've got one. I want to retake DS9, basically.

Starting point is 00:20:03 And he's going to pitch it the next day to Starfleet Command. And what I love, Rob. Yes, go ahead, Gary. I caught that too. Go ahead. Is that it the meeting is at 0800. 0800. And everything on DS9.

Starting point is 00:20:15 happens at 0.800. Everything. It's true. That should, is that of, yeah, this podcast should have been Star Trek, 0800. We should have called this. Oh, that would have been good. In several episodes, Terry, that I've been on. Everything happens at 080. Really? Oh, that's hilarious. Every appointment, every meeting, all right, we're going to meet at 0800. They just use that number over and over again, which I love. Work starts at 0800. Yeah. When Cisco turns a Dax and shows her. the screen with all the little icons and graphics of the different fleets that are becoming in.

Starting point is 00:20:51 I love how they used Star Trek com badges. The communicator, yes, I almost laughed out loud. Yeah, it was kind of funny. I was like, oh my God. It was a little silly. It was because typically it would be just the Federation, you know, that little round Federation seal. That's the Federation. Maybe that would be all the different groups.

Starting point is 00:21:10 It just looked a little like little kids decided to play with. Or someone was trying to be funny about it and say, hey. Maybe it's an Okudagram. Maybe Denise and, you know, just decided to. Yeah. Yeah. Just I don't want a Com badge. Well, I am, just so you guys know, I am following along in the original script today a little

Starting point is 00:21:30 more closely than we normally do. Okay. It literally says in the script, Cisco taps a panel and a graphic of Deep Space Nine surrounded by attacking Federation forces appears on the wall monitor. So they literally call out in the script this, this monitor that you love. Yeah. And, yes, surrounded by attacking Federation forces was interpreted into combat. I mean, yeah, don't use a starship.

Starting point is 00:21:58 Don't use a representation of a star. Just use a combat, clearly. Maybe it looked too messy. Yes, you're right. Maybe that's busy. Yes. Mike and Denise love to clean things, like to give us very clean graphics, easy to understand. they're so good at that.

Starting point is 00:22:14 But if you notice, the Com Badges also had little trails as if this was like a weather map. Like this incoming cold front is going to be, they had like directional things on there, which was very funny too. I think it took me out a little bit of the seriousness. Yeah, it looked like a kids' morning show version.

Starting point is 00:22:30 But you did laugh when you saw it, right? You were like, oh my God, that's kind of funny. A little bit of a chuckle. Did I laugh? No. I was like, what? She went. Huh?

Starting point is 00:22:40 Okay. So you did the dog. The dog. head tilt. Oh, my. I just thought it was. Hokey? I did not like the...

Starting point is 00:22:48 Yes. Okay. A little too corny. Yeah. And I'm from Iowa. So if I think it's too corny, that's saying something. All right. We got opening credits.

Starting point is 00:22:57 And then we have a great space shot, I think. Yeah. Of the station, which I just want to say how much I love the station. You're talking about the... You're talking about Star Base. 375. Right. Not yes.

Starting point is 00:23:10 Yes. Yes. It's inspired. By that Trouble with Tribbles episode, the original series that shows that Starbase with the balls. Everything is bulby. Yeah, very 60s, very mod. Yeah. All right.

Starting point is 00:23:26 We're in the mess hall on Starbase 375. Yes. And Bashir is scanning Garrick and reveals that everything is normal. But Garrick is absolutely convinced that Starfleet has implanted a device in his brain to monitor his thoughts. So he's now concerned about being interrogated. He's concerned. He's like paranoid. It's like they've implanted something in my brain.

Starting point is 00:23:47 Did you understand where that was coming from? I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure either. Garrick has not, Garrick has been on Star Base 375 this whole time. So he was debriefed from the prior mission on the Star Base. So he's assuming that during the debriefing that they implanted this in his, I was a little confused, to be perfectly honest.

Starting point is 00:24:09 Yeah, it was a weird thing to start with. And why is he scanning him? a medical, you know, appointment in the messall. It just seemed odd to me. He had a skin tag. Yes, all of the above. He had a skin tag. Oh, that's a good one, Armin. Is there an infirmary? On the space station? There's got to be. Oh, their space station. Yeah, well, we couldn't build it. So we did it all in the lunchroom. It has the laundry. It has food. And you can get your flu shots there. Maybe Garrick's paranoia is because that's the kind of thing he would have done. Well, that's what he says.

Starting point is 00:24:45 Well, they're all sitting there because they're waiting on the results of that meeting happening now, 0800 right now. So it's probably 0,810 is what's going on. And they want to know what's going to happen, whether or not Cisco's going to convince the brass, the new plan of attack. Miles and Bashir are very excited. They want to basically retake the castle and plant their flag on the battlements. And Dax reminds us of how much time they've been.

Starting point is 00:25:09 been spending in the Hall of Suites. Yes, and which was a nice reference, something we haven't seen for a while. It was a very nice reference. We jumped to Cisco's office, and the same wall screen is there with the same com badge representations of the fleets, and he's trying to convince the admirals what's going on. There's a lot of dissension from the admirals, late female admiral. She was good, by the way. I thought she was a pretty good Vulcan. So the admirals don't like the plan, or they're skeptical. They're skeptical. They're worried about Earth, right? Yes, and Coben is the most skeptical because he thinks Earth is going to be left unguarded or basically that's going to be overrun with Dominion. Now, here's a little bit of trivia.

Starting point is 00:25:50 Admiral Coben's character is similar to James Coburn's character in the film Midway, where his character tells Chester W. Nimitz not to go through with his plan of attack because it would leave Hawaii open to attack. Interesting. But right away, it's like you think the Dominion wants to live on Earth? I know, exactly. They don't even care about Earth, do they? I like that he's scared, though, because that's where he lives. Yes. But Cisco convinces them. Cisco basically explains. But not on camera. Right, not on camera. Well, we're going to learn later on that Cisco wants to live on Bayjor, so he doesn't care about Earth anymore. He wants to live on Bejure? Are you kidding me?

Starting point is 00:26:30 That's what he says. No, he did not. When we get there, you'll see, you'll see. I can't wait. We do learn at the end. of this, whoever controls DS9 controls the wormhole. And we're reminded of that. Yeah, thank you. Please don't say we learned it. If we just learned it... Yes, we're reminded of that. You haven't been here for

Starting point is 00:26:50 five seasons. Did you see the pilot? We go to Quarks next. We go back on DS9. Quark is giving some advice to mourn. He's talking a long time and mourn. Morn was not looking at you during this same night.

Starting point is 00:27:09 Armis! Oh, my God. I've touched a nerve. Why was he not? He didn't look at you. You talked to him like five minutes and he was not looking at you. Did you notice that, Armin? No, but it makes sense.

Starting point is 00:27:30 It does. I think Mark knew where the camera was. That's all right. Oh, I see. He was playing to the camera. Yeah, he was playing. I see. Okay.

Starting point is 00:27:38 He was very excited to have a moment, I'm sure. I'm sure, Terry. I'm very sure. He didn't react. He didn't look at you. And I'll use this opportunity to say, I'm going to give a big, broad statement. I don't think this is Rick Colby's best work this episode. I'm glad you said it because I was like, oh.

Starting point is 00:27:55 I don't think it's Rick's best work. And I love Rick. And he does great work, but this was not one of them. He does. And this scene, you were talking to mourn a lot about a lot of different things, about his mother, about the party, about, you know, does he want another drink? All kinds of things. And if they're not going to give him a line, which I get they wanted the running joke of

Starting point is 00:28:18 Moore never speaks. I would have directed if I were Rick. I would have said to Mark, hey, when he asks you this question, look at him like you're about to speak. And then he keeps talking and made it much more specific. At least look like he, you understand what Armin's saying. The blank look, too. When he does that, it's like.

Starting point is 00:28:37 You kind of think like he's deaf or something. Like he's not hearing anything, right? Yeah, it was the lack of looking at you and the lack of reacting explicitly to the detail of things you were saying to me felt like a director's drop the ball. As Cork is giving this advice to mourn, he does spot Cura walking through the promenade. He quickly hands the glass, the empty glass to mourn and says, here, It's on me or whatever And he runs off Yeah, it's on the house

Starting point is 00:29:10 More does this It's empty Oh, I wish you would have reached for the bottle Yeah, just drank it from the bottle straight up No, no, maybe not that But grab the bottle Yeah, as well Quark as he was leaving

Starting point is 00:29:22 Well, Quark left it on his side of the bar Rick Colby did have a style choice in this episode That I thought was interesting Whenever it was into the Kind of the rebellion storyline Yeah He was using longer lenses.

Starting point is 00:29:37 So, Armin, when you looked and saw Kira at a distance, he used a telephoto lens. He used a tight, long, long lens. So it was kind of telling that surveillance-y sort of, you know, spy story in a nice way. I think Rick did it. That was a nice style choice that I think he did. There were a lot of really intimate close-ups that I noticed through this episode. Especially in that story, in your story with Kira, anything that had to do with Kira, Jake, you. And a secret.

Starting point is 00:30:04 The secret stuff. Yeah. Quark does catch up with Kira, and they're in the promenade, and all we hear is, Cork says, Major, are you ready? Cura says, now? Cork says right now. Cors is all right. I don't think it'll do any good. Then we catch up with our gang, our pair when they're in the corridor. They're walking towards Odo's quarters. They're marching over there, but they're stopped by a Jemadar and a Bajoran guard. There's two guards at Odo's quarters, and basically they find out that Odo is not to be disturbed until his guest has left. Kira then asks how long has Odo's guest been there? We find out three days.

Starting point is 00:30:40 Hello. That's a lot of Lincoln going on. I'll say that much. That's crazy. That's a very long, long time. It's very hard to fathom. Oh, yeah. And Cork is like, I'm not having any of this.

Starting point is 00:30:51 I'm going to just force my way through. He's stopped by the Jemadar, who's about to throw down on Cork. It's basically Cura who says, okay, we're out of here. We're leaving. Did you like the Bajoran Guard? No. I didn't either. He was too casual.

Starting point is 00:31:05 I think it would have been a much more nerve-wracking position to be in, especially with what's going on. He should have had more at stake. He had more to lose than that actor was playing it. More nervous and more on edge because he's next to a Jim Hidar on top of that, right? He's not going to think twice about shooting him. No, but instead he seemed like he was the security person at a library who was just sort of like, okay, all right, this is what's going on. Too casual. The periodicals are over here.

Starting point is 00:31:33 Okay, that's the forbidden area. Don't go in there. He also had an accent that sounded like those old cowboys from like gunsmoke or something. Sounded like a... Well, we're talking about there are two gods to the dominion in there. Yeah. So he knows that these are, they're very important. Life or death.

Starting point is 00:31:53 But look at the other side of the equation. I agree with you. But look at the other side of the equation. There is Major Kira, a Bajoran, who's in charge of this station, supposedly. Saying I need to get in. I need to get in. He's caught between the oppressors telling him he can't go in. Yes.

Starting point is 00:32:10 And the major one of his own people telling he, she wants to go in. Yeah. So yes, you're absolutely right. There should have been more tension. Yeah. He's caught between a rock and a heart. It should have been in his physicality. Well, we also learn in this scene that Rom is still in the holding cell.

Starting point is 00:32:26 As he should be. Otherwise, the story wouldn't work. Yeah. Absolutely. So that's sort of, you know, For the audience, as they're talking, heading down there, we are reminded of that. We're in Odo's bedroom. They're completely clothed.

Starting point is 00:32:39 They're sitting on either side of the bed. Odo and the female changeling have just linked. And the founder brings up Kira. Odo does want to talk about Kira. He has to get to the ruling council meeting, but the founder lets him know that that meeting was three days ago. And he's completely oblivious to this. You can tell she's manipulating him. She's talking about how anything to do with the solids is of no concern to him.

Starting point is 00:33:02 He's better than that, yeah. You know, their meetings, their going, their business, whatever they're doing means nothing to a founder. The very first image of them back to back on the bed is like the most awkward post-sex position you could be in. I mean, it's awkward. Yeah. Yeah, because it's like, here, let me show you. Here's the playbook of how it goes. Not love, not connection in that way.

Starting point is 00:33:32 Do we all agree that Odo showed her what human-noid sex was like? One would assume so. Oh, yes. Yes. Hence the bed, which showed up out of nowhere. Well, the very first line, she says, so this is how solids experience intimacy. Right. And that's our big indication, but it's like a 19, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:33:53 Yes, they both have their feet on the ground. It is 1940s. Right? It's 1940s. They have separate beds, but somehow they made a baby. They're fully clothed. Forgive me, but being clothed makes no difference because it's not, it's not clothes. It's just part of what they look like.

Starting point is 00:34:07 You're right. I also felt like when the founder says, you know, that meeting was three days ago and Odo's reaction, three days, it's been three days. How have I lost track of that much time? To me, I was like, oh, it's like he's been on a bender. Like he's been on drinking and drugging or whatever. He's just been. No, there's no drinking, no drugging. It's just Lincoln.

Starting point is 00:34:29 Linking. But the Lincoln's pretty intense. It's intense Lincoln. Yeah, but they link again. He does more of it at the end. He's like, oh, can't get enough of it. It looks like he kind of didn't want to, though. Oh, you mean how his face was like, oh.

Starting point is 00:34:44 Yeah, it looked like a, I got to, almost like he really is afraid to say no to her on some level. Okay. Because he did say he wanted to leave and he felt bad about missing it. To me, it's like a drug that he can't get enough of. and he had to do it again at the very end. You're right. And that little, even though it looked like he was moving away, that to me was his going through ecstasy,

Starting point is 00:35:07 like he's like, oh, yes. Again. Let's do it again. Do it again. Yeah, yeah. All right, we go to the wardroom next. This is where Jeffrey Combs is looking at art. The cameras down.

Starting point is 00:35:18 He's looking at art sideways. When I go to museums and things, I move around the art. I think it is actually what he's doing. Makes sense if you're trying to study it. It's a little exaggerated. but yeah, he's down on the table looking at this. So, Robbie, you have the script.

Starting point is 00:35:33 What does the script say? Let me pull up that page. I'm 99% sure these are all Jeff's choices. Yes, I agree. It says Wayune is leaning against a table, closely studying one of Zial's minimalist ink brush paintings. It seems to puzzle him. But Jeff's went further.

Starting point is 00:35:52 It just took an extra wonderful step. It does say in this that after Kira comes in, he holds the painting up for Ritchie Descent. Robbie and Terry, do you remember when we first saw Zial's art? There was that question I think from one of our Patreon patrons, would you own this art? And both

Starting point is 00:36:10 of you were like, no. You were like, we would not. And I was the one dissenting opinion. I was like, oh yeah, I would, I like the simplicity of it. But when I saw this particular image, which is not what they showed prior, I would not own this piece of art. This to me

Starting point is 00:36:26 looked like graffiti. And I was like, spray painted graffiti. It was very simplistic and there is no artistic. I don't know. It just didn't appeal to me at all. Yes, it still doesn't appeal to me. It's just not my style. Well, none of you are a Cardassian. That's true.

Starting point is 00:36:42 Or a Bajoran. Maybe you're a Vorda. Okay, so Wayan's looking at the painting and then Kira comes in, ask Wayan to release Nog, but he says, no, I can't possibly release this traitor. He's going to be executed. It's a lovely piece of writing.

Starting point is 00:36:58 I thought, releasing someone that's about to be executed makes no sense at all. It's a lovely way of saying he's going to get executed but takes the sting out of it, but makes it even more horrible because it's said in such a casual way. He also says in the scene that he knows that Rom thought of the minds, you know, that he wasn't just trying to destroy that. Yeah, he invented it. Yeah, he invented the whole thing. So, yes.

Starting point is 00:37:25 And doesn't he mention he wishes he could carry a tune or something? Yes, yes. Yes. That's what we were talking about earlier. Yes. That you were in his head. He was visualizing it and we could see that. It's a wonderful performance.

Starting point is 00:37:38 I almost called him right away, but it was late enough. I thought, not a good idea. I'm going to give Jeffrey an 11 out of 10. He's off the scale for this one. He was so effing good. Pardon my French. Yeah. We go to holding cell next.

Starting point is 00:37:52 Quark, sorry, ROM is inside the holding cell. Quark and Lita are outside. Quark does say in the scene that the Grand Nagas offered to buy his freedom and Quark is thinking about how he can save Rom and Rom tells Cork not to rescue him. Instead, complete this mission to stop the dominion from disabling the minefield even if it means they both could die. Quark doesn't want to die. No. Hell no, he does not. No.

Starting point is 00:38:20 But I don't want to die. But he is moved by Rom's courage. It's one of the changes in characters. We have seen Rom be heroic in a small sense. And here we really see it in a larger sense. He says, I'm willing to sacrifice myself for the good of the mission. And it's one of the many changes we see in the characters. Characters are making, as you said, Robbie, making choices.

Starting point is 00:38:45 Changes is perhaps the wrong word. Choices is the right word. Making a choice, a bold choice. Which side of my own? What am I going to do? Which makes his character, as other characters will later in the episode, Grow. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:38:59 Grow. Absolutely. I have a nitpick, makeup, lighting in this episode. So I guess it's kind of a Robbie question. But to me, it feels like it wasn't the makeup's fault. It felt like it was a lighting. There was some with Renee that I noticed in Odo's makeup. I saw seams and things that I don't normally see.

Starting point is 00:39:23 Yes. Yes, that's why I thought it was the lighting. And in this sequence, really yank my chain. I was like, it looked like someone took one of those Mabeline brown crayons and drew in your nose. And then did this line.

Starting point is 00:39:39 That's what she does. That's the technique. Well, they were really dark this time. And this line, your natural smile line there, it was in front of it. Oh. And I was like, what the hell's going on? And so then I rewound it to look again.

Starting point is 00:39:57 But that's where I think it's the lighting because Karen wouldn't suddenly after doing your makeup for six years. Not after this long, no. No, she wouldn't have made a mistake. No. Unless she was sick if she wasn't there and someone was a day checker. You know? There were lines on the nose. There were lines going into the cheekbones, but not down here.

Starting point is 00:40:16 Oh, yeah. Watch back. There is a line like a brown marker. It is possible. It's a day checker. Possible. In fact, it could have been. I mean, it was very rare, but it's possible.

Starting point is 00:40:27 possible. This was the episode that we had a day checker. The only other thing I wanted to mention this scene is Lita's squeak. Oh my God. Her whimper? Yeah, I'm going to say whimper. Wimper squeak. Her wimps. That took me out of the show, too. Oh, I liked it. It just seemed along the same lines as the communicators flying through. It's like, what episode are we on? What's the tone of the show? Are we doing comedy? And she was freaking cute. But the second one made it Like, oh, no. This is where, yeah, this is where the baron should have said, one is sufficient, two is too much.

Starting point is 00:41:07 And I know what she was doing because she's told me she was doing Laura from the Dick Van Dyke show. Oh, funny. That totally makes sense. Yeah. Oh, Rob. He should have directed her to take it not to the comedy level, but the, he's going to die. Right. Not, this isn't funny. It's interesting. I found it cute. I actually enjoyed it.

Starting point is 00:41:32 Once again, I'm going to ask you to go to the script. What does it say? I did. So here's what it says. Rom's line is, uh, uh, I don't think Wayun cares much for Latinum. And then he takes a beat. I'm a dead man. Then the action line says, Lita breaks down crying. Okay. Well, that's not what she did. That's not what she did. But that was her choice of her interpretation of crying because she was trying to copy. from the Dick Van Dyke Show. I will say on the second squeak, it's still a very tight close-up on her.

Starting point is 00:42:03 She does have the watery eyes going on. So she at least brought that to the table. I saw that much. But like Robbie, I'm not as pulled out as Armin and Terry is by that whimper. I wasn't pulled out, but it's not what they wrote. I would have liked it to be more serious. We're in war. And he developed this weapon.

Starting point is 00:42:22 And he tried to destroy it. And they want to kill him. and it should be taken very seriously. That was the point of putting her character in that scene. The point was to see a wife mourning her husband's... Death before he's gone. That's the point of having Lita there. I know that this is her choice.

Starting point is 00:42:45 Her choice was to do Laura from the Dick Van Dyck Show. But I think, again, the director, the Baron should have said less, less, or don't do it at all. or can we be a little deeper than that? You know, the problem is directors don't, in my experience on Star Trek, don't like giving series regulars and in this case a major recurring character direction. Which is so sad because it takes you out of the tone of this episode. What she did was cute and it would have worked great if it weren't this episode. I agree with you.

Starting point is 00:43:24 Yeah, it makes sense. I like your version better. I think it's a better choice. We should be feeling like, what if he gets killed off the show? We should feel that way. That's right. That's right.

Starting point is 00:43:38 From our point of view, what if he's killed off the show? Well, Armin, you played that beautifully. You grounded it, and I thought your decision to be a hero, really, to save your brother. I could see that.

Starting point is 00:43:53 Well, as I've often said, One of the good things about the Ferengi were they were family-oriented. And as much as he's had a problem with his brother, he loves his brother. And of course, he's going to do all he can to save his brother. He wants to save his own skin as well. But he's going to try his best to save his brother. And he comes up with a plan or two. At first, I was put off by the bickering about how many years Lita is going to work at the

Starting point is 00:44:19 Dabo table for free. But then I realized, no, the writers are right. it is the way a Ferengi might deal with this situation it is part of their culture not my culture but their culture Absolutely Armand I'm wondering if you guys

Starting point is 00:44:34 had rehearsal You know the rehearsals you would have at your house I'm guessing Probably not Yeah because if Lita If she came up with That reaction during your rehearsal

Starting point is 00:44:45 You may have said wait a minute This needs to be a little bit more grounded Not comical You know you may have suggested to her at that rehearsal Try really crying in this one, you know. I don't remember us rehearsing this scene. I think it was too short.

Starting point is 00:44:57 Secondly, I wouldn't have been presumptuous to tell another actor what to not do. I might say, oh, that's good, do more of that. But I would never say, don't do that. Armand, for your rehearsals, how did you give each other feedback? No, what the other actors? What we did was work it,

Starting point is 00:45:14 and we would get our own feedback from watching the reactions in other people's faces. I don't, no one ever took the, command post and said, don't do this, do this. Let's think about that. To give Max credit, and he said it many times, after we would rehearse for hours and hours, he would then say, okay, guys, so how is the director going to f*** us up? I just remember if we were going to talk about anything, it felt more like acting class

Starting point is 00:45:43 in the way that you are talking about the scene, not one person taking control of the whole thing. Yeah, we talked about the scene. You're absolutely right, Terry. We talked about what's happening here, you know, what's the underlying themes, what's not being said. We would rehearse it over and over again so that we knew. And we, and as you've all heard many times, we say this, we had to do that because of the,

Starting point is 00:46:09 by the ninth or tenth hour of being in the makeup, we were brain dead. So we had to know how to work these scenes on fumes. We had to know how to do it in our sleep. That makes sense. Oh, yeah. Like the beginning, I can tell by my makeup, Armin, looking back, when I look completely pale, I look very pale in this. And I, that's when they've put layer upon layer to cover. Right? And it's just like a little too, hey, we're ready for a Vogue shoot. What the hell is that about? And to me, that looks like, oh, we were shooting this from 10 to 2 in the morning. That's what it looked like to me. That's what it looked like to me. opening sequence. Oh, interesting. Because I looked way to, this part was way too white.

Starting point is 00:46:57 It always happened then. Late in the day. Well, yeah, because I got my makeup put on when Armin had, I came in a half an hour after Armin. Hey, Gary, you know what I did this morning? What? I used an app called 11 Reader to listen to a script while I drove to work, a script that I'm prepping to direct.

Starting point is 00:47:15 So you uploaded a BDF to the app and you were able to hear it while you're driving That's a game changer, Robbie. Yeah, it's incredible. You can upload your own content like PDFs, docs, you know, fan fiction, whatever you want, or you can listen to best-selling audiobooks with super realistic voices. It was incredible. I had Bert Reynolds read my script. How would you compare this to other reading apps that are out there?

Starting point is 00:47:39 Oh, I've tried them. I've tried the other apps. And you can pay 15 bucks a month. You get one credit, one book. Or you could use 11 reader where they've got over 200,000 premium titles. got all the best sellers. You know they've got a free plan that packs incredible value and an ultra subscription for only $11 a month. So you start with a free 10 hours of your own content, or you can upgrade to Ultra for 11 bucks a month and unlock unlimited uploads plus 20 hours

Starting point is 00:48:04 of premium audiobooks every month. That's amazing. 11 bucks, it sounds like you're getting more and you're paying less than the others. Yes, and you get Bert Reynolds to read to you. Hey, who's going to argue with that? Check out 11 reader. Use promo code podcast. That's P.O. D C-A-S-T and get your first two months for only one dollar. We go to the Repliment next. Zial is working on some of her art that Gareth may or may not buy. Terry and I will not be on you. That purple thing.

Starting point is 00:48:33 That looked prettier, though, than the other. A little more interesting. Yes, it did. Yes, it did. Mm-hmm. Here it goes over to talk to Zial basically says maybe you can help me with ROM. A short little scene there, but also in those long lens tight shots. So it's that secret.

Starting point is 00:48:50 you know, a spy world. They look gorgeous. Yeah. They did. We cut to the captain's office and Zial goes to see DuCott to ask DuCott to spare Ram's life and says it would be an act of mercy. You could prove to the pejorans and everybody that you've truly changed. And you regret what you did during the occupation. And she even asks, you know, have you told me the truth that you've changed?

Starting point is 00:49:17 but Duccott refuses. He's not going to help wrong. He can't do it. And he insists that enemies deserve no mercy whatsoever. He all gets very mad. Says she could never be like him. Never be like you. Also,

Starting point is 00:49:33 Descott in this scene asks his own daughter, were you part of the rebellion? Yes, he does. And that really sets her off. I think that's, you know, it was like, are you kidding me, dad? What do you? Another major change.

Starting point is 00:49:47 I like that she stood up for herself in a much more grown-up way than we've seen her before. This is a very clear-headed, strong-minded young woman. And I'm, for one, I was like, yay, watching the scene that finally she found her voice. All these characters have major changes in this episode. Yes. When she's walking out, he tries to, Mark Alamo tried to grab her arm. And she threw him off in a way that was so good. It was very similar to a prior episode where Nana is in the office with Mark Alamo and he tries to grab her there.

Starting point is 00:50:24 And she does the same yank away and walks out of the office. Well, it happens later with her and with Kira and Odo. Yes, that's right. Yes. There's a lot of arm yanking away going. Yeah. Wow. Okay, next scene.

Starting point is 00:50:38 We're at Quarks. We're sitting on the spiral staircase kind of hiding out another spy moment. Quark says he's hired some Nossican mercenaries. to come help rescue ROM. But five bars? Five bars buys you all that? Five bars will buy me five Gnossicans. Well, maybe they're a little desperate

Starting point is 00:50:55 for the money right now. Yeah, maybe. And five might seem like a lot to Cork. But that's a lot. He's buying a ship. He's buying Gnossack. He's buying a escape. He's buying a break in.

Starting point is 00:51:05 Five bars, even for Cork seems a little cheap, actually. I think it should have been way more than and should have pissed you off. Like, yes, and it would pay off later on. Well, he's talking to Kira, and she cannot, she does not trust Nossicans. Nobody can. Also, she says they're going to be too much of a distraction. I mean, they're going to walk into the station.

Starting point is 00:51:25 Everyone's going to know, the Nossicans are here. They're not very, you know, discreet. Yeah, they're not so in all. Yeah, she sort of, you know, breaks his plan apart. And so at the end, he's like, well, I think I can get my money back? That's why I think it would have been played better if it was 100 bars or something. Right. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:44 They go down into the main. part of the bar. DeMar is there and he's talking some crap to Kira here. She is not intimidated by him at all. Doesn't she say something like, you don't like my attitude? Yeah, she says, you don't like my attitude, Damar?

Starting point is 00:52:02 You're welcome to try and change it. Yeah. Kira, she's a badass. She is. She really is. Well, anyway, and Damar is mean, by the way. I just don't like him. Is he going to change? Is Damar going to change? Ask me no questions. I'll tell you no laws.

Starting point is 00:52:21 There you have it. Let's keep moving on. Let's keep moving on. Yeah, he's not, I'm not a fan of Damar at this point, I'm just going to say. Nor should you be. No, I'm not. Quark is sweet talking him here and pretending to be his friend. And giving him prune juice, yeah. I looked this time. You could see the residue in the glass.

Starting point is 00:52:44 I was like, oh. He does praise Quirk, though, for siding with the Dominion, unlike Rom, who's a traitor. He trusts Quark enough to reveal that they found a way to deactivate the minefield, and they expect the mines to be all gone in about a week, and then Dominion reinforcements can flood into the Alpha Quadrant and game over. One week, and the Alpha Quadrant is ours. Raises the stakes. It raises the stakes.

Starting point is 00:53:11 Yes, does. So this plan of Cisco's better happen real quick. Yes. The clock on it, yes, which is always helpful for storytelling when you know there's a clock running. We go to Cisco's office. Again, this is at the space station, 375, Starfleet. What is it? The Starbase.

Starting point is 00:53:29 It's Starbase 375. I realized why else I love this in this cutaway outside. It reminded me of space 1999, which is one of my favorite movie TV shows back in the 70s. I love Space 1999. million. Anyway, Cisco is very frustrated because retaking DS9 is going to be impossible without Klingon support. And Gowron is not going to commit his fleet. He doesn't want to give up that many vessels. Cisco's talking to Martok and Wharf, and they eventually agree to appeal to Gowron, and they assure Cisco that they will secure the ships that he needs. And it's just the only scene

Starting point is 00:54:09 for, for Worf, in the episode? He had a couple of viewscreen moments. He has a chat with you, Dex, right? Yeah, but they're going to go all the way back to Kronos to appeal to Gowron in person. And that's when even Martuk says, well, Warf, you should come with me. And Warf's like, no, sorry, he doesn't. He doesn't like me. He doesn't like me. But then Martak makes an argument saying, well, that's even more of a way to convince him.

Starting point is 00:54:36 Because if his friend and his enemy suggest the same plan, he'll go along with that. Clever. And I think Mar-Tock is very smart about being political in his choices about how he takes care of things, just like how he handled Alexander in that episode. He's a level-headed cling on. Yes, he thinks big picture. Yeah, well, because he plays chess well. Let's put it that way. Yes, he does.

Starting point is 00:55:02 He knows that if he takes Wharf, who's part of his house now, and with his support, it might also change how. Galeron thinks about Worf. That's true. Begin to mend that fence. That's the first place I went to. Yep. That's an added plus there. But he doesn't let Worf know that.

Starting point is 00:55:22 We go to Quarks next. There's this long lens opening that's kind of panning around the bar, which I found slightly distracting. But then I remembered that Rick Colby had directed on 24 around this time. Do you remember that? Yeah. He had done a couple episodes of time. He was copying the 24 camera movement.

Starting point is 00:55:41 I felt like. he was doing 24 with all this long lens stuff and yeah it felt like it kira and quark realized that the dominion can dismantle the whole minefield within a week and they've got a worn starfleet but they just don't have a way to communicate safely with them and jake pops his head in to one of these tight shots and he reveals that he's secretly arranged to send an encrypted message to his dad and they ask how how did you figure this out and he looks over at Morn, there's Morn wrapping a gift. He's going to send the message in the gift to his mother. In one of the gifts. I love the fact that Nana walks over and puts her finger as the bows being

Starting point is 00:56:25 tied. I thought that was super cool, that moment of realization where she sort of looks at Morn and says, without saying anything, she's basically giving off the message, you can do this, right? And Morn's like, I'm going to do it. Yeah, there's the finger and then his look and then Kira's look and then back. to him and he looks over to the other side and Quark is there and got a cut to him. And Quark gives him a look. I think it's a missed opportunity that Morn's reaction to both of them wasn't more grave. I felt like everybody was the writers had written everybody to be silent acting, silent movie acting here because nobody spoke and it was very. Oh no, that would have been

Starting point is 00:57:06 fine. I just think that Morn's reaction didn't look like he knew what was actually happening. Well, If there's any place for him to get a line, this would have been it. Here, for him to say something about this. Or not say something. I don't think you needed to say something, but he needed to have the director tell him what he should be thinking in his reaction to Kira and his reaction to Quark, both. I'll read you what the script says in that moment.

Starting point is 00:57:34 It says after Jake says he has an encrypted message for my dad in one of her presence. it says angle on morn still struggling with a ribbon suddenly a finger comes down on the ribbon allowing him to complete the knot morn looks up to see uh off kira and quark looking very serious indeed we cut to the star base so that's that's how it's scripted which is pretty much what we saw well except that it's not it's not cura and quark as you just said it's first kira then back then as though he's getting double he's double whammyed by both of us as opposed to one big whammy of the two of us together. I think it would have been better a two shot and just tighten all that up. The finger, he looks up, a two shot, and done.

Starting point is 00:58:22 I think Rick was as enamored of mourn as David Livingston was. Interesting. Yeah, because it milk this moment for sure. All right, we go to Cisco's office next and Cisco's there. Admiral Ross has a ribbon. he's looking at. I didn't catch that. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's brilliant, actually.

Starting point is 00:58:47 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the code was in the ribbon. Of course. She's very clever. I didn't catch it the first time I watched. When I went back and watched and was making notes the second time I caught the ribbon bit, and I was like, oh, very clever. That's why that finger on the ribbon is so important because you need the tight shot

Starting point is 00:59:03 so that later on you go, oh, that's the same ribbon. But Jake's message has been received by Starfleet. They're reading the ribbon. it reveals the Dominion's going to dismantle the minefield in just three days now. We're down to three. And very smart because if it had been five days, they got there that fast, really? Yeah. Go through the mom and everything.

Starting point is 00:59:23 So that I'm really happy that the writers cut it down to three and made the clock ticking faster. Faster. Yes. Admiral Austin brings up the fact that the Ninth Fleet will not even be there until four days. It'll take at least four days for them to get there, maybe longer. And then the same thing with the Klingons. they don't have time to get the Klingons involved as well. So it's just going to be Cisco and company

Starting point is 00:59:45 and whatever ships that are available right now for the Federation. And Cisco says, we've got to go with it. We have to go with what we have. Yeah. And this is a scene that the first time I noticed, it's a oneer that ends in a 50-50 with Ross and Cisco sort of facing, you know, looking right at each other in a 50-50.

Starting point is 01:00:05 I didn't like that shot. It was odd because he was out of focus. Ross was out of focus in the foreground, and they were kind of forcing a oneer into this moment. And ending on a 50-50 was fine to me, except that it gets repeated, that same 50-50 shot in this episode quite a few times. And I was like, and why did Rick often keep the person in the foreground out of focus and focus on the person in the back and get them in focus? As an actor, if I've got the lines and I'm in the foreground, I want to be in focus. Well, I think they threw the focus to the back At the beginning it was on the foreground

Starting point is 01:00:43 Then they threw the focus to the back to Cisco But while Barry was talking Yes, then they left it there and that's the problem They didn't jump back. If you're going to ride the focus Then ride the dialogue back and forth Yes Or just keep that foreground actor in focus

Starting point is 01:00:58 And let Cisco be out of focus in the background Until he comes forward I got this feeling And it's all in my head I know it, I know it, I know it It's as though Rick said, I'm going to keep the series regulars in focus, and I'm going to sort of, if I have to take someone out of focus, it's going to be one of the recurring characters.

Starting point is 01:01:18 It seemed to me the series regulars were almost always in focus, and always if you made a choice for someone to be out of focus, it was the recurring characters. And I thought, is that just politics? Is that just TV politics? Or do you think it could be subconscious? I don't know. Keeping our heroes in focus becomes like, even just starting acting, I remember it's like, oh, this is the hero shot.

Starting point is 01:01:46 And it would there'd be whoever the lead was would always have like more closeups. It would end on them. It would be a big deal about the beginning and the end of a scene on them. And so maybe that's just, who knows? Maybe it was a production note. We want our heroes in focus. We want to really get our main cast, especially as we're getting close to the end of it. I don't know, but I don't like that either.

Starting point is 01:02:15 Well, also, because Rick was using a lot of long lenses in this episode, long lenses can't hold a deep focus. So they could have changed the lens, and that might have kept them both in focus on a wider lens. Then why wouldn't you use the long lenses for on the station with our little espionage group? that is trying to be covert. And then you use a different lens. Yes. Might have helped the focus issue. Then you wouldn't have had to choose as obviously as they did.

Starting point is 01:02:47 Yeah. And we're not in secret with our group on the defiant or at the star base. Wouldn't that make sense to shift? To a wider lens. Yeah. Yeah. So that you're distinguishing the two story. They're actually two A storylines, but they're telling very different stories.

Starting point is 01:03:05 in how they're being able to communicate them. So you could use that as a director as a tool to help tell the story. Isn't that part of why you do that? Yeah. 100%. You're teaching me so much. Well, we go to the ward room next. And they're looking at the window.

Starting point is 01:03:24 It's Dukot and Wayun. They're looking at these light explosions. It looks like stars. It's really far away. Really far away. DeCat's like, do you see that? Wayun says, Nope. We have bad eyesight.

Starting point is 01:03:38 Good eyes, he says. They did not put that in their genetic makeup. Good eyesight. Dukot informs Wayun that the Dominion is going to be able to destroy the minefield and reopen the wormhole in three days, bringing Gem Hadar reinforcements into the alpha quadrant. And Wayun says, I never doubted you. When Damar arrives, he brings the news of some suspicious Federation fleet movements near Star Base 375, my favorite star base.

Starting point is 01:04:05 Weyoun is very rude to DeMar in this scene. He's always rude to DeMar. Yeah, but DeMar's so mean, so he kind of deserves it. He's mean anyway. It's a little tense there, and Weyuan leaves. And this is when Dukot orders Demar to set aside military concerns and just help him repair his relationship with Zial. He wants her there on the verge of this great victory. And when the victory comes, he wants his doth.

Starting point is 01:04:35 daughter by his side, period. Is that understood, Mr. I just want to bring up that line that when Wei Yun leaves DeMar says, he should speak to you with greater respect. And DeKat says, someday, I'll let you teach him that lesson. So now we know Descartes has it in his brain to double cross the Dominion at some point and take out, yeah, everyone. He's given us tantalizing teasers since the end of last season about how he really feels

Starting point is 01:05:04 about Wayun and the Dominion. Oh, yeah. He's never thought for a second he was staying in this spot as their servant. This is just a temporary step in his master plan. I'm thinking you're right. I'm also thinking I'm not so sure that Duquette is upset with the founders, but he is absolutely upset with Wayeum. Yes.

Starting point is 01:05:26 Yes. Because Duquette, you know, we've gotten no DuCat really well. He doesn't like Mamby Pambi. He wants directness. and Jeff is just superb at talking out of both sides of his mouth. Yeah. Yeah. The king of Mambi pan.

Starting point is 01:05:41 And Duccott is toxicly male. Yes, toxicly male. I love the last shot of the scene where Duccott sits at the table and the shot is on his back and you see all the empty chairs. He's at the head of the table almost like, to me, it was like he was imagining himself in charge of everything when he's got this victory. The table will be filled with all the people he can. around or something. I just love that last shot. And I didn't. Oh.

Starting point is 01:06:08 See, I love just a pretty visual. And to me, it was a symmetrical. It was a beautifully composed moment. It wasn't just coverage. I get bored in coverage sometimes. It's just, whereas if you've got a frame that's telling a story, to me, it told a bit of a story. And it was pretty. For me, all I'm thinking is the actors have no more lines and they have to do something and they just have to go off into the ether somewhere. In this case, at least he turned his back. Usually you just sit there and you go. Yeah, that I don't like.

Starting point is 01:06:38 That kind of garbage I don't like. It's just, yeah, just staring. Staring off into the distance. Staring, thinking about when are they going to call cut? Yes, that I agree with you on for sure. But this one to me was a moment of visual storytelling. I like it better than ending on the 50-50s. Me too.

Starting point is 01:06:56 We're in the cargo bay right now, and it's y'all confiding with Kira that she had thought her father had changed. He wanted to be a man of peace. And now Zial is questioning everything that her father has even said to her. She feels that everything has been a lie. Kira says, well, not everything. He really does care about you. Zial says, no, I don't even, I'm not going to go back to my dad.

Starting point is 01:07:20 I'm just going to stay right here. And as they're talking, Damar comes on over and says that he needs to speak to Zial. Ziaal doesn't want to have anything to do with D'A. DeMar says, look, your father really needs to speak with you. Zeyal still steadfast. She doesn't want to talk to her dad. Kira tries to butt in. Damar tells Major Kira very rudely stay out of this.

Starting point is 01:07:44 And then he kind of takes the soft side with Zial, saying, your father is he's such a great man, a man of destiny. He has a lot of burdens. He really needs to have his daughter next to him, his Kardashian daughter standing beside him. And Zial basically says, well, I'm not a true daughter of Cardassia. And that's when Damar turns mean, super mean. He says what's obvious to me is that your father should have left you to rot in that

Starting point is 01:08:08 brain prison camp, but he didn't. Very, very mean. Then he gets physical. He grabs her by the arm and starts just pulling her away. And that's when Kira basically just can't take anymore. And she, the beat down happens. And my goodness, she knocks him on the, Robbie loves this part. I do. Robbie was so happy to see this. Mar's getting what he asked for. It's just desserts. It's just desserts.

Starting point is 01:08:37 It's such a beatdowns. He all is like, did you kill him? She thinks he's dead. He's not moving. I thought about it. Yeah, he says I thought about it. She could have used the death, you know, the killing move, but she didn't. She pulled back a little bit just to knock him unconscious.

Starting point is 01:08:52 Again, it's choices. She knows what she's doing. She knows that beating up DeMarre is not going to make friends with Dukai. And she knows there's going to be consequences. And yet this is where the war has taken her. She's frustrated. She's bit her lower lip too many times. And now finally this is the thing that pushes her over the edge.

Starting point is 01:09:15 And Odo's been in that room for three days with that other woman. Well, and also, she can attack him. She can't attack. Ducairot. Exactly. So I think he's an easy fall guy because she's, She's with Zial and she protects her. And Goldaqat respects and loves Kira for that.

Starting point is 01:09:40 And there's no way, as we see you later, that Goldaqat's going to believe that Dumar is the hero here. He's not the victim. He's not the hero. He messed up or Kira wouldn't have just totally unleashed on him. Robin, you bring up an interesting point. I do believe that now, I mean, I see it now. Some of Kira's fury comes from the fact that she's so pissed at Odo. She sort of almost put that into her beatdown of Damar, an extra beatdown because of her anxiety and her frustration.

Starting point is 01:10:14 I'm sure it's informing her mood. I think the whole war is informing. I think you're right about Odo. I think we could include Rahm in that. I think especially Ram. She put Rahm in trouble. She's the one. Ram is arrested because of a plan that she came up with.

Starting point is 01:10:29 That's right. She is responsible. the entire war, everything she's done, when she woke up and looked in the mirror, God knows how many episodes ago. All of that is just comes out in this beating up of DeMar. Like a volcano. It's a good beat down,

Starting point is 01:10:45 and by the way, I think that the actors did most of that fight themselves. Oh, you didn't see doubles? I think when DeMar fell and hit the ground hard, that was probably a double because it was on his back and wide. But all the tight stuff, I thought Casey Biggs did a great job of taking the hit. hits and doing the acting.

Starting point is 01:11:02 He sold it. Juilliard training. Julia. Yes, fight training. Good job, Casey Biggs. We go to a space shot of the space station that I love. 375. Then we go inside.

Starting point is 01:11:15 Cisco's reading a pad. We learned that it's Bajoran texts. He's trying to find some wisdom, some inspiration, some hope in this Bajoran text. Advice, I think. More than hope. Advice. An edge. Any type of edge he can get.

Starting point is 01:11:30 And then they start talking, he talks with Ross, who's come in, ask him about what he's reading, talks about those texts. Then he starts talking about Bejor, how beautiful it is. And we learned that Cisco thinks Bejor is going to be his home when this is all over. He doesn't want to go back to Earth. He wants to go live on Bejor. He doesn't think it. He's going to build a house there. Yes.

Starting point is 01:11:52 He's going to still go on missions, but when he gets home, he's going to be in Bejor. Yeah. Ross even says, what if you're stationed somewhere else? He said, that's fine. because when I go home, it'll be to Bejor. It doesn't matter where I'm stationed. I'm still going to go home to Bejor. This whole scene was added at the last minute, a little bit of trivia, when the episode

Starting point is 01:12:09 was running short. Ronald D. Moore stated, Cisco's desire to build a home on Bejor was something we'd been talking about within the writing staff for quite some time. So they were able to add this scene because they needed a little bit more filler. Now, I'm going to ask Terry a question. I can't ask the two of you, but I can't ask Terry. Taryn, knowing what happens at the end of the show? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:12:33 Well, you do know. I know you weren't there, but you do know. Do you think they knew here at the beginning of season six what they eventually will do at the end of season seven? What I'm talking about is Cisco. Honestly, I don't know what happens in season seven. I mean, I've heard stuff, but I didn't see it myself. and I stop people.

Starting point is 01:12:58 But I would also say at this point, I had already said, with all due respect, I'm going to pass. So they knew that this was the end, the last season for you. Rick did, but he didn't tell Ira. There are a lot of things obviously that changed, unfortunately, at the last minute for the writers. Oh, interesting. Because Rick didn't let Ira know what was going on. I know that from Ira. Because maybe he thought you were going to change your mind or something.

Starting point is 01:13:27 For the viewers who were listening and watching, I'm wondering if they already knew where they were going. That's why they put this Bayjore stuff in. I'm going to live on Bayjor. I'm going to do it. Oh, okay. I think they would have to know some of those story arcs. It's a full year away. It's like making Julian suddenly like, what does he know?

Starting point is 01:13:48 Oh, yeah. He's like bioengineered. Bioengineered, but we never got tidbits of things. this information along the way. So it's like, what? Yeah. To your point, Garrett, you said this was added because the episode was short. Correct.

Starting point is 01:14:02 And I'm looking at the script. So you guys know that when they add a scene, they'll give it a letter because it wasn't in the original scene number. So this scene is numbered scene 50, Apple. And it did add pages. So, yeah, they added this. It used to go scene 50. 50 and then it would go right to scene 51, but instead it goes 50-50 Apple for the scene.

Starting point is 01:14:31 Or A, the letter A, is an added scene. So yeah, and it added some page count to the script. Okay, we are in the Defiant Corridor. Nog is now in a regular Starfleet uniform, not a cadet uniform, engineering gold. He bumps into the chief and tells him that he's been promoted to Ensign. And then I wrote in parentheses, from cadet. He skips Khruman level entirely. He goes right to Ensign, which is the most junior officer.

Starting point is 01:14:59 And I took offense to that. Oh, I bet you did. But he's been in war for a while now. And in fact, he now outranks O'Brien. That's right, because O'Brien is chief. He's not an officer. And Enson is a junior officer. It's O'Brien I should be calling him, sir.

Starting point is 01:15:19 Oh, interesting. I picked up on that too. Anyway, he's been promoted. He thanks O'Brien for all of his help. He's learned a lot from O'Brien about engineering and soldiering. O'Brien says Nog still has a lot to learn and congratulates him on his promotion. And now I'm going to make a comment here. When I watched this episode the second time, I was of a mindset, which I still have,

Starting point is 01:15:40 that the way Cullum played that scene as though, yes, I've got stuff to do, he's dealing with Nog, he's listening, but he's got stuff to do. and he's on his way and eventually actually just deals with it in a nice way he's never putting nog down he's not he's not upset with dog but he's got stuff to do and the very end he acknowledges the the promotion and says something nice i actually wish that sort of energy had been all through the episode that that people were on their way to doing things and that these conversations it was just was the interstitial stuff between the actions, that the conversation was just said on the fly as they were on their way to be doing things.

Starting point is 01:16:31 And I thought, I thought, Cullum got it exactly right. Yes. It was scripted that they were moving, just FYI. They put it in the script that they're moving down the corridor. So often, as you know, if they didn't write it, the directors and the actors wouldn't do it. But what I'm saying is, is Cullum's approach? Colum's choices. Yes, yes, of course, of course.

Starting point is 01:16:54 But I'm in a hurry. Excuse me. I'm dealing with you. Yes, yes, yes. And then finally deals with it at the very end. That sort of approach, I wish either the writers or the baron would have done more of. Yeah. That makes sense.

Starting point is 01:17:07 You wanted that tone. Yes, because there's an undercurrent of activity going on and you have to still do the other. But your mind is on. what you have to do. Your next task. That's right. We're at war. Yeah. Robbie has said several times now, the clock is ticking. Yes, I agree with you, Armin. I watched it three times, and I can not tell you how frustrating it was to go, what is it that I don't really like about this episode? I mean, if you take everything apart, there's a lot of good stuff, but there's just something about it that feels like too much

Starting point is 01:17:41 stuff in a bag. And if it had that direction of urgency, more off. It would have helped propel me through the story feeling like, oh, not just telling me it's urgent, but feeling it when I'm watching it. That makes sense to me. I didn't put my finger on that in my notes or consciously, I guess, but what you're saying makes total sense. It felt a little bit unsatisfying in the end because it lacked urgency throughout and the ticking clock didn't seem to be that important to anybody. Certainly wasn't a loud ticking clock. No. And then in the end, we're not really, it's not paid off with an emotional or a, or a plot level. Like, payoff.

Starting point is 01:18:24 There's no big payoff. Yeah. No. Yeah. Interesting. Thank you for saying that, Armin. And that's also partially because they, their idea of one episode got split into two. So there's a little bit of, you know, diluted.

Starting point is 01:18:38 Delusion. Yeah. What am I trying to say? It's a little diluted. Diluted. Yeah, diluted. We're on the bridge. Cisco arrives and Dax relinquishes the captain's chair to him.

Starting point is 01:18:46 Cisco orders Ensign Nag to alert all ships that it's time to move out. So when Nog says, Captain on the Bridge, they know that Cisco is going to take over command of this, right? Not necessarily. I mean, they've made a thing of this now that whenever... Whoever's in the captain's seat, you call captain. You call, yeah, I mean, he's still a captain. Cisco is still a captain. True.

Starting point is 01:19:08 And I'm still not a captain. You are a captain until you are relieved. It's the ensign's job to announce. that there's brass on the bridge. We're in the captain's office, and Dakot knows from intelligence reports that the Federation fleet is headed to DS9. Wayeun comments that someone must have gotten the message out.

Starting point is 01:19:28 DeKat says he must divert a significant number of ships from the front line to meet the Federation forces. Damar then arrives on the scene, and he's completely battered and beaten. Good makeup job, by the way. That was the best makeup in the show. Honestly, he looked like a skeleton, which is the way they did.

Starting point is 01:19:46 from the side. He looked very, yeah, not in good shape. DeKot pulls him aside to find out what happened with Ziyal. DeMar says that he wants permission to arrest Major Kira. DeKat believes that Damar must have done something to Zial to instigate the attack by Kura. Basically, DeMar says he did nothing to her. And Wayune basically says, excuse me, family squabbles can wait until after this war. And he says, weak eyes, good ears, which is hilarious. He's way in the background. Facing away from them. And he hears the whole conversation.

Starting point is 01:20:21 Although when you know the ward room, because we've been there, right, Armand? It's not that big. Oh, it looked big in that shot. It's just the way that shot looked. It looked like he was far. I've physically been in there. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:35 And nothing else is going on. It's not like there's Muzac or something going on to the background or other people talking. You don't have to be a Vorda to hear people talking in the other side of the room. You don't. But it's a lovely line. And it is kind of funnier because, look, you two numb skulls, I'm still standing in the room.

Starting point is 01:20:53 Right, with these years. Wayne leaves. Tamar says the Federation's moving against us. Ducaut says, yes, that's right. Now I want to know exactly what happened between you and Zial. So it's the second scene where Duquette is finishing, not about the war, but it's all about his daughter. The other scene, he wanted his daughter to be by his side. Now he wants to know what happened.

Starting point is 01:21:14 Yeah. He's obsessed. Dukot is obsessed. Very much so. We are now on the promenade at the upper level. Odo and the female changeling are basically standing in Jake and Nog's old spot. Yes, the classic spot. The classic spot.

Starting point is 01:21:28 And the female founder basically talks about the inferiority of solids because they are limited to one form and one form only. They need guidance, not freedom. She tells Odo that the solids are no longer his concern and that everything will turn out just fine. He will soon be relinked with the great link. link and Wayune arrives with news about the war. I think the female founder even says, go back to your room, I'll be there soon for more linking. And Wayun is,

Starting point is 01:21:57 she's so icky. She's so icky. Weyune compliments the founder on how well she has handled and neutralized Odo. She disagrees with Wayun, and she tells him that returning Odo to the Great Link is the ultimate goal. It's even more important than conquering the alpha quadrant. Which I thought like, wow, this is huge. Yeah, it is huge.

Starting point is 01:22:20 Yeah. And Odo is very important then. When he first approached, he wouldn't look up at either one of them because they're both changing. They're gods. They're gods. Exactly. Right.

Starting point is 01:22:30 But then once he started getting in trouble, he was looking them in the eye to hear what they had, you know, what, yes, what the female has. He has to see what their facial expressions are. Yes. Yes. Well, he apologizes. He said, I meant no disrespect. And female founders, of course you didn't. You are what you are.

Starting point is 01:22:47 A loyal subject of dominion. Come walk with me. Tell me what you have to say about the war. Oh, and wasn't that? It was really... Well, of course you didn't. Talking down at him like he's a child. Yes, because you're a moron.

Starting point is 01:23:02 You can't help not understanding. You're even lesser than the humans. Than the humans, yeah. We created you, Vorda. This is, I think, the first time that we've seen the female changeling show these kinds of colors. Usually she's very gracious. She can be, you know, we can feel the steel beneath,

Starting point is 01:23:24 but this time we see the fangs show. Yeah. And again, choices and changes. Speaking of fangs, do shapeshifters have teeth? They form teeth. They don't eat like we do. So Renee didn't have to wear dentures or anything. He didn't have anything.

Starting point is 01:23:46 Like he had his own teeth. Yeah, he had the makeup. Oh, no. No, no. No, he had no appliances on his teeth. But, you know, the makeup came down to his lips, so it made it impossible for him to eat. Oh, that's right. It wasn't impossible.

Starting point is 01:23:58 It just meant that his makeup artist had to do touch us. Whenever Renee ate, he had to have a touch up because the glue would come up from it because it would go right down to his lip. Now, can I ask you, is there a reason she doesn't have a name? Oh. Because she's a drop in the ocean. Yes. That's right. And an ocean in a drop.

Starting point is 01:24:18 A ocean in a drop. Terry, was Michael Westmore ever sick so that he was not the one to apply your spots ever? Yes. What happened was he was really sick and had to come in and do my spots because nobody else could do them. Whoa. So then he taught Karen Iverson how to do them. Karen Westerfield did them once. But it was hard for me, too, after having him do it for so long.

Starting point is 01:24:47 It's so hard to trust somebody else. He did it freehand. He didn't have a stencil or anything. Yeah, but there's just this, you guys all know, this intimacy with having whoever your makeup artist knows every mood, everything that you've been going through after years of working together. Then you have someone brand new on working on your spots. You're like, what? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:25:08 You're worried that they don't know as much as the regular person. That's right. And that somehow your makeup is going to be lesser, as Terry pointed out earlier in the podcast. Well, and sometimes it is lesser because they aren't doing it exactly like your person does. It doesn't mean that it isn't good enough for the, that anybody else is going to notice. But you do. And that's where, again, when you're overtired in these crazy hours, it's hard to keep things in perspective sometimes. Tina was my makeup artist and she would do my sideburns because I couldn't grow the pointy sideburns.

Starting point is 01:25:47 I can grow a beard, but I can't grow. Yeah, it's the English, Irish, Scottish. Yeah. So they would put on, she would put on my sideburns. And I remember when Tina didn't do my sideburns and someone else did it, it was always weird. I was like, that's not what my sideburns look like. Yeah, it's easy to get really hyper picky about I hate it when other people did my hands. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:26:10 Yeah. Like someone has nails. I don't have nails. I'm a scientist. All right. So they're at the upper level. Now on the bottom level of the promenade, Odo sees Kira walking, striding through and starts to run after her because clearly he hasn't seen her in days because he's been linking. Well, as she steps into the turbo lift, he's yelling at her, Major, and the door closes. And then he finds another way to run up to find her. And when he catches up with her, she is angry and does not want to talk. Odo apologizes, but it's too little, too late. She's like, that's it? That's what you wanted to tell me?

Starting point is 01:26:50 I'm sorry? You just wanted to say I'm sorry? Like, that's not good enough for her. There's so much going on wrong. And then she says, well, let me tell you something, Odo. We are way past sorry. Yeah, yeah. We are way, way past sorry.

Starting point is 01:27:04 She adds another way on there. Yeah. We jumped to the bridge where several Federation ships. have been sent to the back of the formation for repairs. They already have a small fleet, and they're so battered and beat up from other battles that they're just falling out on, even on the trip. Yes. They haven't even got there yet.

Starting point is 01:27:22 And 11 ships are sort of out of commission. Brian picks up on his sensors, the large Dominion fleet, 1,254 ships total, which is double the number of Federation ships, and Cisco gives the command for all ships to assume attack formation Delta 2. And he ends with the fortune favors the bald line. That's the only time we even hear it. Isn't that right? There was this moment too during this where if you looked at Sidig El Fidel, it's like, oh no, do not say what's in your mind about statistics right now, Dr. Bashir. I remember thinking it while I was watching this scene like, no, no, no, no, no. But you have to give Sid something to do in the episode.

Starting point is 01:28:05 Oh my gosh, yeah, but if he said what the probability of us winning would be, it'd be like, if the morale was finally crawling back up, we would have been right down the toilet. Sid did earlier in the mess hall get to order a Ractogeno from the registry. That's right. And he got to check Garrick for tags. That's right. Skin tags. Skin tags.

Starting point is 01:28:28 That's what he was doing. So weird. I do want to say, it does say the shot outside of the whole. whole Starfleet fleet heading through space. Yeah. It says in the script,

Starting point is 01:28:42 angle on the screen, space, the biggest enemy fleet we've ever seen is waiting to meet us. A solid wall of ships, an awesome sight. It looked huge.

Starting point is 01:28:52 Yeah, very impressive. And the episode ends with the to be continued plaque on the screen. And that is the end of our episode. I have three themes.

Starting point is 01:29:07 Okay. Oh, wow. I got carried away. The first one I wrote is it does not take much strength to do things, but it requires a great deal of strength to decide what to do. Again, this is my thing about choices. I like that. The other one is perhaps we are what we are, as she says to wave as a female. And the third one I've already talked about, which is the title doesn't fit the episode.

Starting point is 01:29:37 But we are what we are. And that's what happens. The heroes become more heroes. The villains become more villains. The people on the fence have to make a choice. And they find out to their dismay who they really are. They don't know themselves. They find out from the choices that they make.

Starting point is 01:29:52 Tara Fair. What is your theme flash? Well, make a plan. Be brave, be bold, and do it. Yeah. Well, that's what Rom did. Look what happened to him. Well, but it doesn't mean they're all going to work out.

Starting point is 01:30:04 But you do have to make a plan and do something. You can't sit on your butt and expect something to change. You have to act. And in these situations, you do have to be bold and you do have to be brave. Nobody's going to come over and tap you on the shoulder and go, I really hope you can do this. You can't have any of that kind of noise. And that's an excellent, excellent theme, not only for the show, but for life in general. I just love what you just said, Terry.

Starting point is 01:30:33 This was a hard one to find a theme for me. But then I think when I was writing my poem, it came to me about choices and choosing sides. And to me, the common theme in all of the stories was that loyalty must be chosen. It's not inherited. Quark chooses to help Rom, not just because he's family, but he makes a choice to do it. Zial makes a choice. Cisco makes a choice of where their

Starting point is 01:31:05 their loyalties are. My theme or my lesson is don't mess with Kira or her friends. No. Yeah, our Patreon poll winner for the theme moral of this episode is submitted by Jay Furness and that is Dare to Be Bold or No Gains

Starting point is 01:31:23 Can Be Made. Sometimes you have to invite risk to create opportunities. Well, said. Oh, 100%. Very well said. And honorable mention, theme moral is submitted by Lori Ulster. Pay attention to what's going on around you. Damn it.

Starting point is 01:31:42 Lori. Lori, using the big curse words. I think that was advice for Odo, I think. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion of Favor the Bold. And join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing sacrifice of angels with Armin. both Armin and Terry for being here this time co-hosting with us.

Starting point is 01:32:04 It's always a joy. I always look forward to having both of them on here. Robbie does too. It's super fun having the dynamic of all four of us together. So thank you to both of you. Two, two DS-Niners and one. Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 01:32:18 Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material for everyone else. We'll see you next time.

The Delta Flyers - Favor the Bold

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