The Delta Flyers - Human Error

Starting point is 00:00:00 Greetings, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry. As we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager, your two hosts along this journey are my fellow Voyager actor Garrett Wong, who, in 2012, played James Lee in the first. film Rising Sun and myself, your favorite homesman, Robert Duncan McNeil, aka Robbie McDunk, R.D.M. Robbie D.E., whatever you want to call me. Remember, you can get the full version of this podcast and lots more bonus material, all kinds of extras and fun stuff, by signing up to

Starting point is 00:00:52 become a patron at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers. Rising Sun. Rising Sun. Rising, son tell me about it well before we go there i just want to say i tried to okay we have some people that listen to us only and some people that actually watch us right so those who are watching us i was trying to do when you were doing the intro i was trying to do a delta and then i was trying to do flyers like a finger fly i was just trying to come up with a you know a gesture like a like a cheerleading move. Delta. Flyers like that. Go, Delta.

Starting point is 00:01:31 Yeah. Flyers. Yeah. Yeah. We need Delta Flyers. Oh, I can just go like that, right? Delta. Oh, look at that.

Starting point is 00:01:40 Delta Flyers like that. So there you go. That's our secret code for those of you that video. You can see the secret hand signal. Yes. And that would be for our Patreon patrons. Yes. Patreon Patreon Patreon.

Starting point is 00:01:55 It's hard to say. I know the secret hands handshake. Secret handshake. The Delta Flyers. There you go. Yes. Okay. Rising Sun.

Starting point is 00:02:03 Rising Sun. Tell me about it. I couldn't even remember what you were talking about. And then I was like, oh my gosh. Another independent film. Yes. I don't even know how I, somebody reached out to me that knew someone else, that knew someone.

Starting point is 00:02:17 I don't know. It was just, I didn't even audition for this. I was just called up and said, hey, do you want to work on this project? This independent film? Yeah. short basically that we're doing. And I said, okay. Yeah, I'll do it. But I play like a, I play like a martial arts instructor that has a dojo. And I'm dealing with my kid. I have a teenage daughter in it that I'm looking at it. We've talked about this before. Have you

Starting point is 00:02:45 and I talked about this? No, we have not talked about this. Because it's, it's not my biological daughter. It's, it's, it's my friend's daughter. My friend passes away. And, and she you would have been an orphan. So I'm taking care. I'm raising this kid, basically. Okay. Yeah. And the thing was, I'm supposed to ride a Harley.

Starting point is 00:03:04 And the whole time I'm filming this, I was thinking about you. I was like, dang it. I wish Robbie was down here because they wanted me to film a sequence of me riding the Harley into the side, parking it on the side of the street where the dojo was. And I don't ride motorcycles. I don't ride Harley. So I, and, you know, that's a big. they're big bikes depending on which one it is but they're heavy it was it was the what's the widest one you can get fat back or whatever you fat boy fat boy it was one of those it was just

Starting point is 00:03:36 it was it was big soft tail soft maybe it was soft till whatever it was glide yeah it was big and it was cumbersome and it was heavy and it was and I told the director I said I don't I can't ride this they were like oh I thought you said you could I said no did they have a double can but I can't is so no so they basically found some some the guy that owned the bike wrote it but he doesn't look anything like me he was probably 20 years my senior he was Latino you know it was just a whole another it didn't look anything like me but they still filmed him riding it so because they had to have someone ride it in so it was really bizarre um how the that's funny the first time that we shot with the motorcycle it was like okay well we can show him riding up and then we can show me

Starting point is 00:04:23 getting off of it you know what I'm saying so we did we kind of did that a thousand I've done that with stunt writers a bunch you know they drive up and then when they reach for the helmet you cut to the close up and off comes the actor sure yeah so you know um they found a couple other actors that you would recognize in other projects and and kind of cobbled together this little indie indie film short film thing that they did so um I don't know whatever I'm to be honest, they were, they were going to try to shop it to make it into a longer, full length project is what

Starting point is 00:04:59 it was, yeah, so it was more of a teaser thing than anything else. So, instead of a finished project. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I had fun on it. Every one I worked with, all the actors were great. But other than that, don't have a lot of memories. And the motorcycle.

Starting point is 00:05:15 Yeah, in the motorcycle. I remember the motorcycle. Oh, and the DP, the director of photography was lethal weapon actor Danny Glover. It was Danny Glover's cousin. That's all I remember. Yeah, it was like, yeah, our DP's Danny Glover's cousin. I said, oh, that's cool. That's cool. Did Danny Glover come to visit? No, he did not. Oh, well. I don't know. I mean,

Starting point is 00:05:42 maybe, yeah, maybe he was, he planned a visit but never showed up. I don't know. But yeah, that was, again, it was another independent project that was so long ago that the details are starting to have a memory like mine it's turning into it I'm four years behind you man so you know it's happening we better get through we've only got eight more episodes or something

Starting point is 00:06:05 like seven or eight more episodes let me yeah let me just let's see one two three four five six and if you count end game as one and two seven and eight we have eight episodes left wow that's it this isn't it's incredible we've come this far yeah we better get through these before your memory completely goes and you can't remember that you were ever on star track

Starting point is 00:06:32 since we're getting near the end of the series i've gotten very nostalgic we're talking about these old the old days and she found uh last last week she found uh or a couple weeks ago, she found Workforce Part 1, my actual script that I used. We found both of my copies of Workforce Part 2. So you guys know, we're going to put those up on the store. There's two copies of Workforce Part 2 that Roxanne directed. And for this week's episode that we're reviewing, we found two scripts of human error. And I found the shooting schedule, which has our whole schedule of all of the elements for each scene in the order that we were shooting them. So like the very first shot of that episode, Human Error, this episode was in Astromatrix

Starting point is 00:07:25 with Janeway Paris to Vauk and 7. And it shows you the schedule. So we're going to put the shooting schedule up on the store. We're going to put two scripts from Human Air, two scripts from Workforce Part 2. I even found a script for The Void, which we did a while back. but nice check out the store if you want these scripts they're actually my scripts that were given to me on the show i've kept them all these years and now they can be yours because i'm letting it go all you got to do is go to the delta flyers dot org dot org and go look at our shop section and you can find these scripts from robbie at some point when i start going through all my boxes i will probably do the same thing that robbie's doing but at this point um Robbie has this

Starting point is 00:08:11 spotlight. So if anyone is interested in those scripts, please check those out. Remember, there's only a couple of them. So I've got one or two for not even every episode. So someone's going to be the lucky bidder or the lucky purchaser of these scripts. So good luck to everybody on that one. Let's get into it. Human error. Here we go. We're going to go watch it and we'll come back with our recap and discussion. For all our Patreon patrons, stick around for your bonus material. Okay, we're back. We are back. Shocking about who directed this one, because he just directed, he just directed

Starting point is 00:08:52 part one of Workforce, and they had him come right back while he's in post-production. He must, yeah, just back to back. I mean, he's doing pre-production for this episode while he's doing post-production for Workforce Part 1, basically, if you think about that. Yeah, yeah, he was busy. This was very busy for him. That's not the norm, though, Robbie. Correct? I mean, who comes back that quickly?

Starting point is 00:09:14 Well, when I did, when I did, um, Josh, maybe, Dawson's Creek. Dawson's. I would often go to do a couple in a row, not three in a row, but I do, I prep and then shoot one and then go right into prep and then shoot another one. So I'd be gone for like, you know, six, seven weeks. Right. But there was another director in between your two episodes, though, correct? Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:09:38 While I was shooting, my first one, someone was prepping to shoot. theirs and then yeah okay so you've done this drill you've done the craker right here what craper it's not it's not um it doesn't happen a lot right but but uh it does happen i'm trying it does happen i'm trying to think this year did i on resident alien did i do yeah i did i did the first episode and then lea thompson did the second and then i did the third episode so i was back to back that's right and then i didn't direct again until the eighth episode. So yeah, it does happen. But yeah, we love Alan. I'm thrilled. By the way, I love that you had Leah Thompson directing. You guys have Leah Thompson of all people. My childhood

Starting point is 00:10:24 crush watching back to the future. My gosh. Yes. Okay. All right. Let's start off with our poetry synopsis for Human error. Here we go. My haiku. Seven tries dating. Chiquotay is the flavor. could have been hairy That's the best haiku ever Oh thank you Let's hear that Let's hear that limerick Let's hear the limerick

Starting point is 00:10:51 Straight from Ireland I think my limerick Is going to give you a sense Yeah Of what I thought about this episode Oh boy Okay here we go In a poetic way

Starting point is 00:11:04 I'm going to share my feelings a little bit We'll get into it Let's hear it Okay here we go Seven goes on a holodeck binge and gets feelings for Chikote a tinge. The ship's nearly destroyed, but destruction we avoid. And this episode really makes me cringe. Oh, you added your own commentary about the episode in the limerick for the episode.

Starting point is 00:11:34 I did. I don't normally do that. Could I call that meta? What do I call that? I mean, what's happening right now? Yeah. It's art. It's art. Exactly. It is art. It's your choice. You chose us to do your that way and no one can judge that. That is your absolute 1,000% choice. Wow. You didn't like this episode at all. I did not like this episode. I'm really sorry. I didn't I didn't have as violent a reaction as you did. But did not like it. There's some odd points in here. That's for

Starting point is 00:12:06 sure okay i have some i have some evidence i have some okay i've done some research i have an original script and by the way i as i mentioned before i've got a bunch of original scripts yes this is the original script from human error the one that was given to me right we're going to be putting up on the store but thank god i found it because i went and looked back at the original script at a couple of things where i was just like i can't believe that that's what they really wrote and intended that just put it over the edge for me

Starting point is 00:12:41 and so I found I've got some as you can see posted notes so when we get there I'll be talking about it yes and funny and funny enough every season we have a different colored cover for our Star Trek Voyager scripts

Starting point is 00:12:55 season seven was green so hence for those of you who are watching this every time Robbie lifts it up it's basically another green screen essentially so I can't get the I can't get the can't But trust us, it is. Oh, yeah, when you've kind of waved it like a fan.

Starting point is 00:13:08 And you can see the actual green for a split second. Okay. All right. Well, let us continue. Yes. We talked about director. How about writer? What's the, uh, the writer again, here's Brandon Braga.

Starting point is 00:13:22 I was insisting that he had been part of workforce, but no. No. Brandon Braga and Andre Bormanis. Oh, Andre Bormannis. I say Bormonis. You say Bormannis, however we pronounce it. It's still Andre. But yeah, we've had Andre on as a guest.

Starting point is 00:13:38 And I was really shocked. I was like, oh, Andre wrote this with Brandon. And this was his story, story by Andre and Ken Biller. Okay. Interesting. Andre, it seems to me with these credits, the way things are credited, seems to me that Andre had this idea, sold it, developed it as a story with Ken.

Starting point is 00:14:02 And then Brannon came in and wrote it with Andre. right or polished it Andre maybe did the first pass and then Brandon took a you know an editing pass on it and yeah so that's how I think those credits so it feels like the Genesis is an Andre Bormonis I said Bormonis that's the way I pronounce it thank you I know I you you got me oh I'm changing you let's dive right into this though because I really want to get into it okay so the episode starts with a shot of two candles and an open book which then racks full focus to a close-up of a metronome in the foreground. So I thought, wow, this is kind of art-housy to begin with. I'm like, what's happening here? So the metronome is going on. Then all of a sudden we have another shot where we see an 18th century bronze bust of, I don't know, what composer or individual that is. Beethoven or somebody. Beethoven, somebody, Mozart. And then the camera pans down to see hands playing on a piano. We get a bunch of different shots of the hands, different angles. The sheet music. Yeah, the sheet music. Finally, we do see from behind.

Starting point is 00:15:02 It's a female, blonde female, hair down. And so we're assuming this is probably seven. Then all of a sudden it does cut to a very close-up profile shot of seven playing the piano. So we know it's seven. But then it very abruptly cuts to the show's opening credits from there. And I thought, what are you doing? It was like, we reveal that it's her and then it fades out without a sound. Nothing happens.

Starting point is 00:15:28 And it goes, bam, there's no, there is no. inciting action. There's nothing to pull us into this episode. Is this supposed to be compelling? Like, is this teased- No, it's not compelling. It's not, no, it's more, it's more, it's more sort of art-housey in a way. Like I, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:15:47 Like, it's a, it was bizarre. It was a very art-house film. I'm going to go right to the script. Okay. For this scene. Yeah, it was such a weird scene. I was like, is that how they wrote it? Yeah, read it.

Starting point is 00:15:57 Because I thought that, uh, the shots were very cool. And I thought, wow, I guess that Alan Craker must have had these ideas of these shots. I gave him the credit for that. But no. Wow. In the script, scene one, just a metronome, beating a steady tempo over and over. Scene two, snow is falling outside by a bay window. The panes are edged with frost.

Starting point is 00:16:26 Scene three. Flames crackle, a fireplace in a stacked with wood. Scene four. So all of these shots were scripted. This wasn't Alan Craker who came up with these shots. Scene four. It continues. We see from behind a woman playing piano dressed in casual clothes. Scene five, the woman's hands on the keyboard. Scene six, tight shot on a sheet music. Scene seven, tight shot on her eyes. We didn't get that. shot. We didn't get a tight shot. No, I shot. No. And then back to the metronome where the camera moves slowly to reveal seven of nine, end of the teaser. That is exactly how it was scripted.

Starting point is 00:17:09 Nothing happens except we reveal seven of nine knows how to play piano. Is that supposed to be compelling? I immediately was like, okay. I'm not. Can I give you a little context right now? Yes. Okay. Do you remember early on when Janeway revealed that peach or apricot nighty and that scene. Okay, that was directed by Rick Colby who was dating Kate Mulgrew at the time. And there was that very slow, slow push into Kate, like unnaturally slow because it was his homage to his girlfriend. You see what I'm saying? It was sort of like he really souped it up because he was in love with Kate. So he felt like, oh, this is my love letter to her. And I'm going to real. So it was almost overly dramatic.

Starting point is 00:17:56 and overly when it shouldn't been. And so the context I'm trying to give you is Jerry Ryan is now divorced from her husband and she is dating Brannon Braga. So Brandon writes this very kind of romance novel beginning because he's deeply in love with Jerry Ryan at this point in history. So that's why I'm saying. But for the audience, there's no story. They don't get that. No, there's no story. No, because that's not what's, that's not what his intention was. You see what I'm saying? His intention was, this is, darling, sweetheart, I'm going to, I'm going to make this, I'm going to, I'm going to carve this whole script out to just showcase you and how much I love you, I feel. It was bizarre because we didn't even see her until the very end.

Starting point is 00:18:40 And it would have been different if we had done all of this. She's playing piano. Oh, she's playing piano. And then all of a sudden, red alert or something. Something. And the holodeck goes off and she's got to run to do something. Yeah. At least we would have felt like, oh, she's playing piano, but there's something's happening.

Starting point is 00:18:58 Nothing happened in the scene, so I give it a thumbs down. Okay. And I'm going to play devil's advocate. A lot of times when you go to film festivals and you see some real art house films, there are certain scenes that really don't go anywhere. It's just a scene to be a scene. That's it. But you admit, you said originally this was weird because it just went to the credits.

Starting point is 00:19:19 It was so abruptly went to opening credits. There's no inciting incident. I said, nothing happened. That's what I'm saying. It's just her playing the piano, right? But I'm telling you, the context is, Brandon Barraga is in love with Jerry Ryan at this point in history. That's it.

Starting point is 00:19:31 Okay, they're dating. They're an item. I know. I'm just saying that sort of informs how you write or maybe he was so in love. He was jumbled up in his head. He couldn't find the proper format of inciting incident, bringing us into the story, you know, that he typically writes with. Maybe.

Starting point is 00:19:47 Because Brandon, I think, is a great writer. I think he's a talented writer. He can get the job done. I do too. And I'm just saying. That's why I'm surprised with this whole script, to be honest. There feels like so many derailed weird moments. I hear you.

Starting point is 00:20:03 I'm just not as I'm not as turned off as you are by this script. I cannot wait to hear your rating of this. Cringy, cringe, cringe, cringe, cringe fast. I know you're cringing big time. I know. Okay. All right. So the only guest star is Manu in Turami as Echab, who is still wearing the exact same

Starting point is 00:20:21 outfit he has had on since he's been on Voyager i'm i'm really upset i feel like somebody should have said hey we're going to take up a collection or we're going to use our replicator rations to replicate you some more clothing i mean what is happening here it's just not fair all right we're in the mess hall or is this baby showers happening so you were right your guess was that something happened i remembered we had baby stuff but i thought it was i thought it was seven asking balana about motherhood or something. I knew that Seven was trying to figure out this human thing, but I thought it was all about the baby. Right. Right. But you did get the thing right about her asking Bologna a question. She does ask her a question later. It's about the coiffure as she so, you know, described it.

Starting point is 00:21:07 So yeah, but anyway, you were in the ballpark, which was good. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're in the mess hall. It's a baby shower. It looks legit. What we don't know is this is all it's all a holiday. All the program. Yeah. Hullo program. a hollow program. Baby shower. I loved when Tom, you know, takes the puzzle that Tuvac gave, the Plinoc puzzle as a baby gift. And he says, oh, I love a good puzzle. And then immediately breaks the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:21:35 That was very funny. My favorite moment was my gift to you guys when she opens it up. And she says, Torres says, Starfleet diapers. And I say standard issue. And right at that moment, it cuts away from the scene because it's seven walking off with Janeway. to the side. And you hear your, did you hear what you said? Low down? You go, well, at least I know who to cough. There's a containment breach. Like, you know, containment breach of poop, poop or whatever, right? So it's very low. So you have to turn up your volume. But Paris does have a,

Starting point is 00:22:06 of a, you know, almost a satovoche voice. It's very low because it puts the focus on. That's my dry comedy technique. It is. I liked it. Seven does walk to the side with Shaneway and thanks her basically for being, being there for her and showing her the way. And then I love the last line where seven says, may she inherent? She says, seven says, may she inherit a sense of logic from her mother. And basically it's a cut on Tom. And then Harry goes, I'll drink to that. And I just, I loved how the flourish and how much I dived into that line of,

Starting point is 00:22:44 I'll drink to that. I was almost like a, I was almost like someone who was drinks, you know, It was funny to me. But it also in this scene, when Seven talks to Janeway, it surprised me when Janeway says, you don't need to regenerate anymore that, you know, she's getting rid of her Borg implant. Oh, and she doesn't have her Borg implants. We didn't mention that. Yeah, that's right.

Starting point is 00:23:09 We totally forgot that. Seven doesn't have her Borg implants. So the doctor's like, well, now that you don't have your Borg implants, you don't need to regenerate, maybe you could use some quarters. And so I was like, wait. minute, I don't remember this. It was all very confusing to me. But it does appear for the moment.

Starting point is 00:23:25 We don't know we're in a holodeck yet. No. It appears like seven's fine. She's totally human now. She's going to get some quarters. And all that is happening. Yes. We jump to the bridge and now we're in real time.

Starting point is 00:23:41 Paris, the camera comes across Paris. Paris says that there's energy discharge that he's reading on long range sensors. but all of a sudden it's gone. So he reads it and then it disappears. And Tuvok says that these discharges keep happening and they're happening about 5.9 light years ahead of us and we just can't we can't get a clear reading. We're not sure what they are.

Starting point is 00:24:04 Can't get a readings. Yeah, Janeway says, hey, seven of nine, calls seven of nine. We hear seven. Go to astrometrics. Yeah, is what she says. Go to astrometrics. And so we hear seven say acknowledge.

Starting point is 00:24:14 And then we cut back into mess hall. Messol. And I was like, what? Yeah. Oh, that's the moment. I was like, oh, this is all. And that's when she ends the program. Yeah, she's a program. It was all a simulation. And that's it. Now we know, it's not the real deal. Didn't really happen. Now we know that that was, that simulation was wrong because Tom Paris can do puzzles. And it, that's why he broke the puzzle because it was not the real, Tom Paris. Of course. If it was the real Tom Paris, he'd be fine with that puzzle. Of course. And, you know, And she would never dare to say, may the daughter inherit some sense of logic in real life to real Tom.

Starting point is 00:24:57 No, Tom is smart and he can do puzzles really good. Do puzzles. Okay, good. And he's good at evasive maneuvers. Yes. We do go to astrometrics where Seven and Tuvok are talking about scans. She picks up some unusual subspace radiation and metallic debris. But no vessels, she confirms.

Starting point is 00:25:21 And now Janeway brings up to Tom, she asked Tom, does Bologna suspect anything? So we realized that this baby shower that Seven was practicing for. Yeah, is really going to happen. It's really going to happen. Mess hall 1,400 hours being in time. Well, she tells Janeway tells both to both Tuvok and Seven who are in the scene. She says, by, and I expect both of you to be there. because she knows these guys are the ones

Starting point is 00:25:47 that never go. They're the party poopers. They really are. And so Seven says, no, I'm busy and Janeway insists, no, I think you can find the time. Janeway leaves with Tom and there's a little conversation between Tuvok, basically commiserating with

Starting point is 00:26:03 Seven about her uncomfortability at social gatherings. And I keep thinking, to be honest, these two are the perfect couple, really. I mean, if you think about it, I mean, forget about Chocote later on it's these two for goodness sakes um she talks a little bit about in this scene about how she's trying to get better at social events or she's trying to learn things new things um and we jumped

Starting point is 00:26:27 to the seven's new quarters which looked like it was a green screen for some reason to me i was like what's why does it not look it was so empty it was that what it was just odd it was just an empty quarters neelix is there with her uh i love when he's looking around He's looking around because there's no furniture. There's nothing in her. There's nothing there. As a band. Yeah. She's back to the no.

Starting point is 00:26:52 So now we know the rules when she's back to that look with her hair down. Yeah. That's not the real deal. That's not the real deal. So we know immediately she's back in another simulation. Do you think that's what the intent of the writers was in the beginning was just, hey, the only way we're going to, the only way we're not going to confuse our audience is if we have to make sure she has no implants on during the. scenes that are in the hall deck and then put them back on. Yeah, I think maybe that was a smart thing for them to do. Well, Neelix discussing interior design. I love his. He moves around the

Starting point is 00:27:25 room. He does like this circle dance, his little like jig, which I thought was very funny. I liked it. My funny part, what I got out of here was when she's, she's looking at one wall and she says, a multi-spectoral star chart might enhance this bulkhead. And then Neelis is like, or a painting. And she's like, painting of a star. chart. I know. I'm like I'm painting entirely. Not a freaking star chart. We don't need that. You already do that all day at work. The other thing Neelix in this scene suggests is maybe adding some color, photographs, artwork, or knick-knacks. Yeah. Seven goes knick-knacks. And he says, yes, little carvings like the wood carvings in Ensign Kim's quarter. What wood carvings are those?

Starting point is 00:28:08 Did I do a carving of a saxophone? A wood carving of a little tiny clarinet? Maybe I did a wood carving of you, Tom, because I said, this is my best friend. I'm going to carve. I'm going to whittle. That's what we call it in the U.S. I'm a little. I'm a little, Tom Paris, right now. I'm going to whittle you. Very specific wood carvings like Harry's. When you, you don't have any wood carvings that I'm aware of. We're going to have to go look at episodes with your quarters, but I don't know. That's not a significant thing in your, no. Brandon was head over heels in love with Jerry and he didn't even remember what Harry has in his quarters. He just wrote that. He's like, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:44 Yeah. Wood carving. What would you think the wood carvings are of? I joked around. One was of Tom. One was of a clarinet. And what would you think if you were to say, Harry's got wood carvings. They are of what? I think Harry has carved a wood image of all of the women that he's met in the Delta Quadrant so far. He's got a collection of wood carvings of all of the ladies he's fallen in love with. His memories of all of them. That's what I think. I can always count on you to make me laugh. Thank you. I appreciate that. Chikote comes in. He brings a housewarming gift. A housewarming gift, which is a dream catcher. And I just thought, it's such a cliche. I wish it had been something more legit.

Starting point is 00:29:33 It feels like a dream catcher to me is like something you get at the gas station near the, like it's just such a touristy cliche. I wish it had been something a little more. specific or what if it was a really futuristic looking dream catcher like something different than the standard dream catcher you buy no it just felt like such a low hanging fruit easy easy cliche answer to put us to say yeah native american character is going to bring a dream catcher yeah we have banned dream catchers on resident alien with our indigenous stories we have a are you being serious you're being totally serious wow because Kenny frost who was a

Starting point is 00:30:14 our indigenous advisor. He says they're not a huge part of our culture. There's so many of the things. It's become the dream catcher symbol has become a cliche, a caricature, a cartoon of our culture. So let's say it's a very 90s, it's a very 90s choice for them to do that. Seven does say, hey, I studied up all about your culture. And that's when I realized, oh my gosh, this is the episode.

Starting point is 00:30:44 where something happens between these two. That was my key right there. She studied up about his culture. As he's about to leave, she then says, hey, wait, I've been working on learning how to cook new things.

Starting point is 00:30:58 How about you come to dinner? And there it is. He asks out hollow. Well, this is the first scene, and there's a lot of flirting. There's the flirting when Neelix leaves early on, or even before Neelix leaves,

Starting point is 00:31:12 they flirt a little. You feel it. Yeah. And then there's heavy flirting on the, you know, as they, as she starts to say, as he starts say good night. Mm-hmm. And I just want to pause and say, I think that the holodeck should have safety protocols that we cannot program our colleagues as fantasy characters.

Starting point is 00:31:35 Oh, I think it is very, very, you're right. It's distasteful. But it's also a violation, I think. and violation of somebody's rights in a way, right? I mean, unless you have permission from that other person, right, to do that, you are now, you're now using their likeness and their image in, for real. You're using it in a real way, in a real way. Yes.

Starting point is 00:32:01 I found it as soon as they started flirting, I'm going, oh, this is, this is her programming Chucote, she's stealing his name and likeness and his, he's having a, experience with him in a way that is violating, I think. And just imagine, by the way, just imagine if Harry Kim, yes, programmed the holodeck with seven and made her have sex with him or do something. That would be, or the captain, programmed the captain. And now Harry or Tom programs the captain. Oh, it's just a fantasy. No, this is someone that I work with. There should be a rule. So I found it immediately. I was like, this is where, this is where you were, yeah, this is where you were, you became repulsed with this episode. Right here. So this is in the

Starting point is 00:32:52 first, what is this? This is the first five minutes of this. Yeah, this is the first five minutes. And you've already, you've already poo-pooed it basically because of this. And I am not happy about it. I understand you. I understand you 1,000 percent. And it's funny because coming from seven and nine's point of view, you kind of almost forgive it a little bit because it's the woman making the selection of the of the mate as opposed to the man choosing the mate with why is it shouldn't be no there shouldn't no you shouldn't you're right it's the same kind of abuse as if a man yes it's justified a woman the gender does not matter right the gender does not matter whatsoever but i'm saying that i think old school thinking 90s thinking is that yes it's a woman selecting the man she's making

Starting point is 00:33:33 the choices so it's okay in the 90s if you had harry kim choosing janeway it would not have been okay even in the 90s, they would have thought, what, are you into dreams of forced, you know, rape, basically? You know, I mean, there's, there's issues with that, definitely. And not to get ahead of myself. Yeah. Not to get ahead of myself. But if Seven really didn't think that she was doing anything wrong, she would have told everybody

Starting point is 00:33:58 when they asked later on it. And she lies. She's hiding it. Right. She hides it from everybody. So. But then now, now then the question arises that now, now, in, you know, in, real life, there are people that have fetishes or have, you know what I'm saying, that engage in

Starting point is 00:34:12 certain behavior, that they're embarrassed by it. So maybe this is what that, this is what it's showcasing. Maybe this is what it's spotlighting or this is another angle that we haven't looked at. Maybe. You see? Seven programmed AI, our holodeck, to put Chacote's face on a story that's not true. Correct. And to use that in a way that I just found it distasteful from the beginning. I did not. If this had been a fake character, if she had gone to the holodeck to practice her human behaviors with

Starting point is 00:34:42 a fictional character she had created on the holiday, I would be fine. I would be fine with it. To me, the fundamental problem is, this is a colleague, this is someone she currently is going to have to clearly walk down the hall with and work with. And you should not be able to do that

Starting point is 00:34:59 without permission. Yeah. Create a fictional character. Anyway, I digress. Let's move on. All right. So now, we are in sick bay. The doctor is singing a lullabla, a lullaby. Yes.

Starting point is 00:35:11 Yeah. And the lyrics. A terrifying. A terrifying. The lyrics itself, Seven brings light to that. Then the doctor says that he has recorded 29 lullabies as his baby shower gift for Balada and Tom. What a nightmare.

Starting point is 00:35:25 Yes. And this is not the holodeck. This is real life. He did this. At the real baby shower really gave them 29 terrifying. And not just Earth's song. He's in English, but you have Klingon lullabies as well that he sings for you. He's doing a maintenance checkup on 7 of 9.

Starting point is 00:35:42 He wants to basically realign a clamp in her arm to stop her shoulder pain that she has. She refuses because she has research to complete. Research. He gets pushy. He says, well, what kind of reason? And she basically kind of rebukes him. She says, look, you're getting a little too close. And my personal life is none of your concern.

Starting point is 00:36:05 And we jump out of that scene into the bridge where we have an energy discharge. Shockwaves are hitting the ship. And Janey says report. Harris says it's energy discharge. She's calling for full power to the shields. We cut out to space and see this really cool, you know, wave in space the first time we see it. Yeah. The shock wave hitting them broadside.

Starting point is 00:36:28 The wave is cool, but I didn't like how it hit our ship. Really? Yeah, the effect afterwards was kind of cheesy. thought. But again, it's 1990s visual effects. So I'm sure current day budgets and technology level would make it a lot better. But you're okay with it. You didn't have a problem. I thought it was cool. I thought the big shock wave was cool. We come back inside and Janeway says to Paris, next time, you know, turn our bow to the wave front. It'll minimize the damage. Yeah. And Paris is like, sorry, Captain, there wasn't enough time. Yeah. I feel like, again, Tom is a smart pilot. Like,

Starting point is 00:37:03 I don't know why they wrote Janeway constantly telling him. I feel like she's micromanaging you. Why is she micromanaging you? And I feel like I've missed this in this whole podcast, but I'm starting to notice a pattern of like, Tom has never had a moment where he's like, I got the solution. It's crazy because she doesn't micromanage anyone else.

Starting point is 00:37:27 Yeah, no, it's just Tom. And it's so funny because she went way out of her way to recruit you. to go to the New Zealand penal colony and pull you out of prison to bring you on the ship. So if you're going to go to that much trouble, because this is the best pilot in the quadrant on Earth or whatever, let him try his ideas. Oh, yeah. I know. Okay.

Starting point is 00:37:48 But anyway, so there's another wave, but it's too far to pose a threat for us right now. So we go into the astrometrics lab. We see a big graphic of this kind of warhead hitting some kind of probe. maybe or subspace warheads? Yeah, so basically it's long range, subspace warheads, firing at unmanned vessels or probes, whatever it may be. So it's a military firing range.

Starting point is 00:38:16 It's a target range for somebody. We don't know who. We have an exterior space shot, a Voyager at Impulse, and then we're back to astrometrics again. And now the doctor, so there's a passage of time. The doctor has sent Echab to sort of relieve seven to give her some more regeneration time. Echip starts doing this thing where he starts quoting.

Starting point is 00:38:38 He's like, don't shoot them. Yeah, don't shoot the mess. Don't kill the messenger or whatever it is. And he'll say the quote, then he'll say who it's from, who wrote it. And this becomes a pattern with Echb in this episode. He's got quotes for every situation. But it's good because it does set up something that made me LOL big time. Because I was watching this with my earbuds on and it was very late.

Starting point is 00:39:03 And so basically I was watching, watching. And the one thing that made me laugh is the payoff that happens later between these two. But she basically says, fine, I'll give you, you know, you can relieve me. I'm going to take off and get a little bit more regeneration time like the doctor wants. But please keep an eye out for gravimetric distortions because this is the way that Seven has basically said that we can detect these warheads right before they come out. There's a little bit of gravimetric distortion. And then we know we've got to watch out at that point. We're in cargo bay.

Starting point is 00:39:33 She goes to regenerate, but guess what? She changes her mind and leaves. She leaves, but by the way, she stands there staring at the static circle, regeneration thing. And I just went, that's exactly what Janeway didn't work for. She just stared at the static circle, like it shows them anything. Hey, maybe we don't, there's something we don't know. Maybe there's some type of secret society.

Starting point is 00:39:59 Maybe she was high and she was looking at it going. Oh, no. Maybe seven. What if the circle is some type of, some type of representation of a deity that we don't even know about. Okay. They are, okay. I know I used to stand there on set and stare at the circles.

Starting point is 00:40:17 Because they are hypnotic. I would just like, fine. Whoa. Look at that pattern. It's just funny that everyone's been staring at it every episode, but just staring at it. I know. I stare at it as if there's something there, yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:29 Anyway, she regenerates for like, Does she even regenerate for a second? Does it even, maybe, no, she just kind of walks up. She puts her hands on it, gets it, gets it ready to go and then turns around the leaves. She leaves. We go into engineering. There is a cool, twisty shot. There is.

Starting point is 00:40:45 Steady cam shot of, you see people walking on the glass floor balcony above us. We tilt down. There's Torres trying to get the injector ports align. She's helping her. She's busy. She's moving. She's moving. Taurus is on the move, and that's when Seven shows up and says,

Starting point is 00:41:05 hey, I'm sorry, I didn't make the baby shower. Here's your gift, which are these little tiny, cute little booties. But the way she describes them is so borg-like, you know, these will protect your infant in minus, like, 75 degrees Celsius weather, just as if you would ever put your kid in that type of thing. Yes. Yeah, thanks, seven. Right.

Starting point is 00:41:28 seven sort of trails after Torres if she's going from station to station finally she says look I have a personal question and Torres is like yeah go for it you have an appealing coiffure what is your grooming regimen which is again what a hilarious line and then Torres says wait you're asking me what do I do with my hair that what you're asking me is very funny it was this is what maybe why I thought I remembered this as if it was about babies but it was a better hair yeah it was the hair it was here I do have a nice, funny little line when Seven does leave, because Torres shoots me a look like, what? And I'm like, must be an alien intruder on board. So I get a little something there. A little joke at the end. Yeah. Holidayck, back to the holiday. That's where she goes. She went straight to her dinner program with Chakote. Okay? Chacote, although time is weird, because they talk about later, they talk about how many hours she spent on a holiday. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, this is the first the date that she talked about it's like there really is only should have been three hours of that's it all the holiday it doesn't seem like there should be 65 hours that's however long she spent seven's quarters um she's now basically in her dinner date with chicote she's in a very low cut dress yes red hair is down uh the chopin music plays in the background there's an awkward mirror moment i thought when she's looking at herself in the mirror Chacote says you look perfect

Starting point is 00:42:58 That was the setup though That was the setup right For her to look at the mirror later When she sees her Borg self Correct? I guess so Yeah I guess so Yeah

Starting point is 00:43:06 Chikote says give me a hand with this He's trying to get a cork out of the bottle And they both are sort of awkwardly Struggling with the cork Which I just thought If she's a part Borg Wouldn't she be able to pull the cork out of there That'd be so easy for her

Starting point is 00:43:22 There would be no effort for her That thing would have come out with just two fingers. She would have gone. So, yeah. So that was a little bit of a hole in the script there, understood. They go over to start slicing vegetables. She says,

Starting point is 00:43:33 please assist me, slice the vegetables transversely in five millimeter increments. So I thought was super romantic meal. I also noticed there were a fun of carrots. Like how many carrots? There was like 20 carrots out there. I think she was trying to make carrot surprise. I mean,

Starting point is 00:43:52 obviously it was a dish that was very heavy on carrots. and she needed, you know, yeah. Now, do you think since Brandon wrote the script and they were dating, Brandon and Jerry were dating at the time? Brandon knew Jerry was a foodie. Is that why there's a kitchen in her quarters? I think you hit that nail on the head. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:13 I really do. I really do. Yeah, that's why they put the kitchen in there. I just don't know why you would write this scene where you have your girlfriend sampling stuff off of someone else's finger. you know, like that whole thing that was sort of very creepy and just, yeah,

Starting point is 00:44:31 I don't know. The finger thing made me very uncomfortable. Cringe, cringe, cringe. Yeah, because like, didn't, okay, she tasted it off of his finger and then he tasted it off of his own finger off of that, what she just, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:44:46 So she, you know, Star Trek after dark or something going on here. Oh, yeah, I don't know. I mean, Cudy Central. So it's just, yeah, it was, just like, oh my goodness. This is very... Way too much, like, sexual. TMI. It's too much TMI right here.

Starting point is 00:45:01 Yeah. It was too... TMI. Super flirty. It's super sexual. Everything. Super flirty. Super sexual. I didn't like it. Didn't seem like Chikote. And again, this is where I'm like, that's not Chikote. This is an episode of Red Shoe Diaries. That show, Red Shoe Diary for Showtime. Remember that? And it was the guy from David Duchney was the host or the narrator of that. It's a very...

Starting point is 00:45:24 Yeah. This felt like... like that tone and that's not our tone. This is not a Star Trek Voyager episode. I'm sorry. It's just not. And by the way, I want to look at the script here to see, see how the script described their action here because they do kiss. They do kiss at the end of the scene, right?

Starting point is 00:45:40 Please, go, go. So it says, let's see, you're beautiful when you're chopping. He says, she smiles slightly, continues chopping. I don't mean to sound like an old hollow novel, but you've got a wonderful smile. back at him. It wasn't a smile. It was a smirk. Tricote. Oh, no. It was a smile. If I could check the internal sensor. I could check the internal sensors, if you like. She looks at him, an electrifying moment, inches apart. Then she decides to seize the moment of intimacy. Remain still, she says. He reacts. She raises her hand, runs her fingers along the lines of the tattoo. And then they talk.

Starting point is 00:46:21 She leans and kisses him lightly on the lips. He returns the kiss. gently turning and folding his arms around her. After a beat, they part. I require more practice. She says, you're doing just fine. They kiss again. This time, closer. The kiss grows passionate.

Starting point is 00:46:39 Then we hear the noise, and they break apart. So it's described kind of simply here. Like the first time is tentative, and then they break apart. She says, I need more practice. The second time is, this was shot and acted like it was. we've got an hour to watch them kiss. It just went on and on and on. And that's not how it's described.

Starting point is 00:47:03 It's like a test kiss and then a kiss with a hug and then there's a noise. That's it. It didn't have to be so. Drawn out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 00:47:21 Yes. Anyway. Yeah. And the funny thing is my memories of the, of the, whole Chicote 7 canoodling was that it that was that it happened in real time and not on a holodeck like that was my memory never remembered this episode being a holodeck thing a holodeck yeah and by the way I want to bring this up now because there's moments where it happened yeah when we go to real life and seven's talking to chokote Robert Beltran threw in lots of moments of

Starting point is 00:47:50 like knowing you know what I mean where Robert Beltran would see her and say something, give a little extra smile. And to me, and it also happened with Janeway in a scene later with Janeway when she's going, what are you doing on the holodeck? It's as if she knew. She was playing it loaded as opposed to playing it like,

Starting point is 00:48:10 like no one knows. Okay, so you're saying both Robert Beltron and Kate Mulgrew in their own respective scenes with Seven played it as if they knew that Seven was doing a little. Was doing something like this. Maybe not all the detail.

Starting point is 00:48:26 Okay. But that she was doing something with Chakote. They both played it that way. Wow. And I'll get to it in the script. Because that was the issue where I was like, to me, that puts it way over. Like, not only is it inappropriate that she's creating a fake Chikote. But the fact that they're playing along with it is as if it's real.

Starting point is 00:48:46 Yes. Doesn't feel right at all to me. Like if they knew that. This is going to be the lowest rated episode of all for you. Could be. No, I think. I don't even say. could be. I think it will be. My gosh. Okay. Where are we? We come back from the act out and

Starting point is 00:49:02 the awkward kissing to seven playing piano with Chikote and, uh, he's sitting next to her, right? Yes. He's sitting next to her and they're kissing. But it's a dream sequence though, because you've got that filter going on, that kind of fuzzy filter, and then all of a sudden the doctor pops in, um, saying that he wasn't aware that he, she had a personal life. That's a prior line that he said to her earlier when they had that altercation basically in Sick Bay and that's when she sees her reflection

Starting point is 00:49:30 in the mirror of her full Borg self who she doesn't want to be. Yes. Any longer. Yes. And she wakes up basically in this scene. This is kind of a montage of her dream. How do you interpret

Starting point is 00:49:46 this dream scene? What do you think the meaning was? I interpret that she's sleeping, that they kissed, that they made love, although they're both clothed, so it's hard to know. Well, let me go to the script. It says at the top of the act, the metronome, scene 33, the metronome is ticking. Scene 34, 7 of 9 at the piano,

Starting point is 00:50:15 scene 35, her hands, scene 36, On Seven's face, she's playing. Scene 37, interior view of her shoulder, the doctor who's studying the graphic turns and says, I wasn't aware you had a personal life. Scene 38, seven and Chukotay kissing in the kitchen. 39, flames crackling and then dying out. The fire slowly dies out. Mechanical noises.

Starting point is 00:50:43 Scene 40. In her casual look, she looks at the mirror and sees her Borg self. Scene 41 of the metronome on top of the piano. We hear Chacote say Chichote to 7 of 9. Seen 42 in the Holladette quarters, she wakes up. So I think all of that was her dreaming. And then she gets a call from Chacote that he needs her to come down, seven respond, report to astrometrics.

Starting point is 00:51:15 And then she says to fake Chacote, good morning. And they sort of hold hands. Now, he says it to her. But he said, yeah, he says good morning. Yeah, because that's the thing. Is it, because fake hollow Chacote says good morning in a like, sexy, sexy gun away. He's like, good morning. And then real life Chacote also says good morning to her in the next scene.

Starting point is 00:51:37 When he runs into her in the astrometrics. Correct. Correct. Correct. Yes. So yes, they had Nookie or no. Oh, I think so. I agree.

Starting point is 00:51:45 The way they played it? Yes. The way they played it? She woke up from her. she slept in the holodeck, basically. You know what I'm saying? And wouldn't that have arose some type of suspicion? Because there's people, there's people that are on night shift that when they get off

Starting point is 00:52:01 a night shift, they're going to want to go use the holodeck. They're going to say, whoa, 7.09 has been in here for like 12 hours, all night long. So that would have raised red flags immediately. Again, just holes in the script, I feel. Okay. She goes to, runs down the hole, putting her hair back up, runs in Astromatrix in Chikote. the real Chiquotay says, good morning. This is a scene where I felt like he was playing as if he knew, as if the real Chiquotay.

Starting point is 00:52:26 He knew because he read the script. Yeah, but the actor should not have played. No, no, he should have been totally professional. Yeah. I'm just going to say, I'm, I did not see that. I feel like I have to watch it again now to see what he just said. It's not like, it's not like you to be late for a duty shift. Rough night.

Starting point is 00:52:48 and he smiled. And I was like, Oh. That big smile is too knowing. You would have directed him differently then. Yeah, I would have just innocent, rough night?

Starting point is 00:53:00 Yeah. Are you okay? You feeling all right? Like play innocent and then leave all this cringy stuff in her plate instead of. Unless Brandon. Yeah, unless Brandon told Alan,

Starting point is 00:53:12 I want you to direct it this way. You know, I want it to be played this way. Who knows? We don't know. I'm looking at the script again. Yeah. I'm going to see if it's not like you to be late for a duty shift.

Starting point is 00:53:25 And then in parentheses, it says light, rough night. So it is suggesting that he sort of smile, but there was a smile that Beltran did that wasn't a light, like rough night. Okay. It was like, I mean, I'll agree with you. It's quite insidious if they're in on the whole thing. And I'm going to say because of that, that I think maybe you're reading into it too much. and that maybe you see one thing that I don't see in terms of that, that complicit knowing of what has happened with those two characters.

Starting point is 00:53:57 I'm going to say that they don't know personally. I'll go back to the script later on. We'll go back to it. We can. We can. But the funniest part of this whole episode is right here because when he says Rough Night, Seven says not at all. Chikote says, I'll be on the bridge if you find anything.

Starting point is 00:54:12 And then he leaves. And so that's the point where Eichib pipes up and says, better late than never. Titus Lovius, a history of Rome. And immediately, seven's like, you're relieved. I love that interaction. Oh, God. That was so funny. Funny.

Starting point is 00:54:28 So good. Now they're playing music. We're in the holodeck music room again. The place we started at the beginning of the episode. She's playing. Chikote's watching. Basically, this is a scene where she's using the metronome really tightly. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:42 And Chucote says, hey, try this without the metronome. You know, relax. just play he wants it he wants her to go he wants her to be freestyle right he wants her just to feel it and go with the flow kind of uh tactic right yeah yeah yeah go with your emotions yeah don't think about it so hard don't be tied to this metronome her first attempt or two is kind of rough she doesn't trust herself and then she trusts herself and i did feel at the end when she plays that it was a more free you could feel the difference between the metronome piano playing and her emotional piano playing.

Starting point is 00:55:19 It was nice. It was a nice metaphor. I kind of wanted her to go from classical to something more classical rock. Like I would mean, if she started playing like, um, just take those old records off the shelf. And she started like, you know, playing all like, you know, it'd be kind of cool. It would have been fun. I would have liked the episode better. See?

Starting point is 00:55:39 I knew it. We go out to space. There's some weapons fire. We cut to the bridge. And basically, you know, these, this firing range is happening again. There's more weapons being tested. Chiquotay calls for seven of nine. She says, go ahead.

Starting point is 00:55:59 He says, we need those sensor calibrations. And she's in the holiday. She's not even at Astromatrix. She's in the holodeck making googly eyes at Chucote. Yeah. Not good. She's got an addiction to this thing. She needs a.

Starting point is 00:56:14 like a 12 set program for quitting the holiday she does um but she says i gotta get to my station he says yeah that'd be a good idea act out so she's busted uh we come back and on the bridge paris says there's whole fractures on deck 12 janeway calls for seven report she says standby and then she is just getting into the uh astro metrics yeah and she says isolate subspace And Omicron Theta, Director Sensors to coordinates 1.7 Mark 2. And Maris is like, there's nothing there. Nothing. So she gave him the wrong numbers, which is like, oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 00:56:55 She goes, I'm sorry. Correction, 178, mark three, six. And he goes, oh, yeah, I can see him two warheads are about to emerge, adjusting course. But it's too late. And there's impact in, you know, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And the shockwave hits us again. But our shields hold. And Janeway's pissed off.

Starting point is 00:57:17 She tells Chikote, why wasn't seven at her post? And he says, well, maybe you should ask her. So we go to the ready. But see, that's why I think he doesn't know. He's a good question. Maybe you should ask her. Like, he's just, he doesn't have. But he's playing sort of a little bit of like, I kind of have my, my radar says you're

Starting point is 00:57:34 flirting with me somewhere. I have chemistry. Okay, okay, okay. All right. He's playing chemistry that was not. never on the show ever. I don't see. And suddenly in this episode, he's smiling with her and he's like, I, okay, all right.

Starting point is 00:57:50 It was just out of left field all this. We go to the ready room and Janeway's pissed off. Yeah. And seven's making excuses. Yeah. Basically, she says, you know, what have you been doing? You've been on holodeck two for like, you know, the last. 49 hours in the last six days.

Starting point is 00:58:09 Let's divide that into six. 6, 8, 48. So that's basically eight hours a day she has spent. In addition to her duty shift and the time that she's supposed to regenerate, she doesn't even have time to regenerate. She's spent almost her entire time

Starting point is 00:58:24 on the holodeck. Every free second. And the minute she's not on duty, she's in the holodeck, right? And then she comes back on duty when she's being called and she's still on the holodeck. And that's the other thing. She's not even in astromatrics. So yeah, she's,

Starting point is 00:58:40 She's in trouble. She's slightly addicted, yes. The captain wants to know what she's doing in there, and she says I was running a simulation of what, and then she lies, seven lies, and says a new gravimetric array that is developing. I wanted to perfect the design before I brought it to you. Liar! She's a liar. She's lying, but this is where I kind of agree with you.

Starting point is 00:59:03 Looking at Janeway's reaction, she played it like she knew something was up as well. She was very suspicious. I was like, okay, yeah. And I want to, here's what I'll point out. It says, when she lies in the script, it says, seven says, a new gravometric array I've been developing. I want to perfect the design before I brought it to you. It says, Janeway absorbs this, takes it at face value, and continues.

Starting point is 00:59:26 Oh, so she's not supposed to play that she knows about it at all. And then let's cut to the end of the scene. When Seven's leaving, Janeway, it says, Janeway tries to lighten the moment. It sounds intriguing. Your new gravimetric array, when this crisis is over, I'd be happy to take a look at it. Maybe I could lend a hand. Seven nods, the guilt wing on her.

Starting point is 00:59:47 There's no suggestion at the end, because even at the end when Janeway, when Kate played this, she says, it sounds intrigue. It was still suspicious. It was definitely. She didn't take it at face value. She played it completely like she knew something was happening.

Starting point is 01:00:01 And she didn't play it to lighten the moment. Yeah, you're right. Okay. I'm starting to go to Team Robbie right. now. Everybody's playing like they know what's going on and it's not helping. It's hurting to me. Okay.

Starting point is 01:00:15 We go to Astromatrix. Each Evan Seven are talking about the sensor data. Yeah. Seven is irritated though. She knows she's made a big mistake here. Yeah. And tells Echep basically, I'm going to go correct some. I'm going to go fix.

Starting point is 01:00:30 Well, he thinks that he offended her in the scene. He's asking about, wait, did I say something? So, yeah. So she has to go correct that problem. She's gone. Yeah. And we go to the holodeck, yeah. It starts with a tight shot of candles getting blown out.

Starting point is 01:00:45 So you feel like she's shutting it down. Yeah. But she activates the simulation. Chukote comes in and he's brought some food. He says, how does roasted chicken sound? Didn't we just talk about this, that he was a vegetarian in the last episode, but now he's brought chicken, but he had roast with, is he a vegetarian or is he not a vegetarian? Yes, yes, yes.

Starting point is 01:01:07 Yes. But he also brings flowers, right? He smuggled them from the Araponics Bay. But you're right. He brought chicken and the vegetarian is cooking chicken for them. Yeah. And but he basically- But it's Holo Chikote.

Starting point is 01:01:19 So Holo Chikote is not vegetarian. I guess not. Yeah, I guess not. But Holo Chacote says what's up? And she says, you know, our relationship is interfering with my responsibilities. We're going to have to, we're going to have to cut this off. Yeah. And Holo Chacote literally says, well, I'll talk to.

Starting point is 01:01:38 the captain. I'll have her, you know, change your duty shifts. And I was like, no, that's a horrible HR move. Like, you can't just start playing favorites because you have a relationship. Like, again, like, yeah. All right. Can we agree? Let's just, let's abbreviate. Instead of saying Holochicote, can we say halote? Halota. Halote. Thank you. I like that. Chacote, halote. Yeah, it's bad. It's very bad. Halota does not want to break up. Seven says, I'm trying to correct this. He's upset. He's very upset because she's, mm, he's, yes.

Starting point is 01:02:15 And as he's getting upset, she starts to hear a noise. It's really getting, you know, stronger and stronger. And he says, what is wrong? And she picks up her comm badge, activates it, and calls for a medical emergency. But then we cut to sickbay. And she's not answering the doctor. He calls 7.7, nothing. So he says, computer, locate 7 of 9.

Starting point is 01:02:38 The computer says 7-09's in Holodeck 2. So we cut into back to her holiday program. And the doctor beams in and says what happened. And Hollow Chocote says we were having an argument. She collapsed. And it's bad. Her cortical note is shutting down. She's going into neural shock.

Starting point is 01:03:00 And the doctor notices she doesn't have her facial implants. Did the doctor play? Did Bob play like he was shocked that it was halote? that he sees here? Does he play that at all? I think he plays it a little bit. He plays it at the end at the very end. When Chacote says,

Starting point is 01:03:15 I thought you took all the cybernetic systems out of her. He realizes, oh, no, I never. Okay, so he thinks this is real Chakotay then. Until that moment, until Chakotay says, I thought you took her implants out. Right. Then he realizes. You know I didn't do that.

Starting point is 01:03:31 So he turns off the computer and turns off the holodeck. Yeah. And we cut to seven on the ground. round of the of the empty holodeck with the doctor and her cortical implants kind of fritzing yeah and that's our that's our act out we come back to sick bay seven's there um she's just kind of waking up i think doesn't he give her a like a spray to wake her up yeah yeah it's hypospray she wakes up she immediately calls for commander chukote yes she does she goes commander like she wakes up like that yeah yes red flag yes red flag yes red flag

Starting point is 01:04:07 The doctor says, what were you doing? Yeah. Oh, he does say, if you're looking for your other holographic friend, jealous much, are we? Jealous much? Oh, my goodness. Why, by the way, let's just pause here for a second. Why, by the way, is everybody trying to, why were the writers trying to put seven in relationships with the doctor, with love stories?

Starting point is 01:04:32 Like, why? Because they missed out on their shot to pair her up with Harry. That's how it should have been in the first place. Why does she have to be paired up? Because she's a sex symbol actress that we have to do romance with her. Why can't they, why did they have to do any romance with seven of nine? Why can't they just let her be first learn how to be human before they start trying to put her in relationships? Like, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:04:57 Yeah. It just didn't. It felt, yeah, fringy, this whole thing. I hear you. But the doctor in seven talk. And she explains that she has been, you know, conducting simulations to explore her humanity, like social activities, friendships with the crew, even intimate relations. And the doctor says, I take it the first officer is your romantic interest.

Starting point is 01:05:24 So she says, yes, he seemed like the appropriate choice. And there's many admirable qualities. And then doctor says, why did this all? start, you know, what prompted this? And she says Unimatrix Zero, that ever since, you know, that was destroyed, her life feels incomplete. She wanted, she wants to feel the emotions that she felt when she was at Unimatrix Zero. You wanted to recreate those experiences and those feelings. And so why not recreate the guy that you had a relationship with in Unimaxon Zero for goodness sake? I mean, why are you pulling on Chikote? It makes no sense. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. And the doctor,

Starting point is 01:06:06 goes to finish the diagnostic, basically, at the end. Okay, now we go to engineering. It's another great Steadicam move that I love. They must have had the Steadicam on this engineering day because he used it quite a bit. Yeah. And it was very effective. Harry's there, Boulana's there. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:24 Oh, I think isn't the Warp Corps back to? Yeah, yeah, we get the Wharf drive is back. She calls the bridge, says the Warp Drive is back online. Janeway says, well done. And we go to Warpour. We go out of space and we're off at warp. We go to the bridge again, and Paris detects another subspace warhead, 12 million kilometers away. Huvac says we engaged engines, but the warhead must have diverted from its target and locked on to our warp signature.

Starting point is 01:06:52 Because now because we are targets, we are a target is chasing us. We're trying to get away. Paris can't get away from it. And then she calls for a photon torpedoes full spread. And again, you and I were both saying, no, you have negative 17 now. You don't even have a full spread left, but we ran out of torpedoes about six years ago. These are imaginary. These are imaginary friends, imaginary torpedoes. There's, yes. So small children have imaginary friends. Captain Janeway, an adult, has imaginary photon torpedo.

Starting point is 01:07:26 So we fire them. But guess what? That warhead is like a smart warhead. It has anti, you know, torpedo. technology. Yeah. So it basically eliminates all four of those torpedoes. They're done. They're neutralized. That was a waste. It was a total waste of torpedoes. So Janeway calls us a seven wasted torpedoes. And seven, you know, seven responds. But Janeway says, look, can you get me anything on this warheads circuitry? Like, what can we do? Seven says, oh, wait, wait, wait, she's got it she suggests that she can actually beam out the detonator or the actual circuitry and just kind of defuse it that way um this is something that i think people have a little bit of doubt about they're a little bit worried but seven says you know especially with her not not being

Starting point is 01:08:20 herself lately yeah yeah but she says please give me the yeah give me the chance to disarm those chance to disarm them. And it's a little, it's a little touch and go because she tries, but the warhead is still too far away. She has to wait until it's exactly upon us because that casing, that titanium casing, is too hard to beam through. So now it's literally one second away from hitting us. And that's when she, she's able to beam out the piece that she's trying to take out to save our.

Starting point is 01:08:51 Which is a cool shot in space. It was. I like that shot. It sort of transports away. It just reminds me of Galaxy Quest the whole thing when they're like, why does it always stop at one second? You know, that's everything goes down. The countdown and then the ship's about to blow up and it's saved at the last second,

Starting point is 01:09:10 which is what we did here. Exactly. When we go to Cartmovie II, Seven's there. The doctor comes in with some diagnostic news, basically that he says the cortical node that she has, the Borg cortical node she has had the fail-safe mechanism that will deactivate drones if they start to regain their humanity. So that's why she passed out. That's what that sound

Starting point is 01:09:32 was. Yeah. Even though she's not connected to the hive mind, it's built into the node. It's like a governor. Like a governor chip on a race car, you know, or something. A stock car where you can't go above a certain amount. Same thing here. Your emotions can't be

Starting point is 01:09:48 too much or else you get shut down. Okay. He does walk two full circles around her in the scene. I was like, that's, that's when Alan Craigor sometimes can push it a little,

Starting point is 01:10:01 like he doesn't want to cut. He wants movement. The camera always moving. It's beautiful. I love it. I was like, why did the doctor just walk two full circles

Starting point is 01:10:09 around seven of nine to give her this news? But he did. But he does, I mean, he wants to take that governor chip out of her, basically, right?

Starting point is 01:10:17 And she says it's going to take multiple surgeries and it could be difficult. Yeah. But he, he could begin tomorrow. Yeah. And he thinks he's got a way to get rid of that so that she can have all these feelings. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:30 And he says, without this procedure, you won't be able to continue your simulations. Yeah. And she says, I've experienced enough humanity for the time being. They were only fantasies, an efficient use of my time. And the doctor now is like, well, you don't really believe that. He's kind of pushing her to like be more human. Yeah. You know, let me, let me try this.

Starting point is 01:10:52 And she says, nope, I need to regenerate. good night doctor. So she doesn't want to go there. She tried it and didn't want to go there. Our very last scene is in the corridor. Yeah. He got in seven. Chucote catches up to her.

Starting point is 01:11:08 He says, where's the fire? She's walking pretty fast. She says, I've got to finish my report. And Chikote says, hey, Neelix is giving a cooking lesson in the mess hall, Tlaxian, tenderloin in 10 minutes. She's no longer interested. No longer interested in cooking. And Chakotay's like, oh, Balana's going to be there.

Starting point is 01:11:30 Tuvok even said he has show up. And she says, no, thanks for the offer, maybe another time. He says, his last line, perhaps you should try socializing with the crew a little more. It might do you some good. And then he walks away. Now, this was a, he stops behind her. And she's standing there thinking. And he stops behind her.

Starting point is 01:11:50 He looks back at her. She looks over her shoulder. there's like this moment of knowingness knowing now i went to the script i went to the script oh no okay so in the script it says yeah she says i appreciate your offer another time perhaps he says lightly you know you should try socializing with the crew a little more might do you some good a beat uh he has no idea that seven's been trying what she's been trying to do all along he heads down the corridor seven watches him go a hint of regret then turns and walks down a different corridor.

Starting point is 01:12:24 So they don't share a look. He's walking away. He doesn't says lightly. Oh, that's weird. You should try socializing with the crew. You might taste some good. That's so weird. A beat and he leaves. That's it.

Starting point is 01:12:35 And then she looks after him and he's naive about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But instead, they both played it like they both knew. You should try some of this thing you've been doing in the holodeck. Maybe he stopped. He looked back, smiled. She looked over his shoulder. Oh, wow.

Starting point is 01:12:53 Okay. Okay. All right. Well, do you have a lesson from this episode? Yes, I do, actually. I have a lesson. Yes. My lesson, I typed it out here. Yes. If you want an authentic experience, don't use fantasy. That's my lesson. Hmm. Okay. My experience was not real. No. It was not real. No. I hear you. All right. My lesson. has more to do with her excessive use of the holodeck. Okay. And it is a lesson I've learned from an prior episode of Voyager. And that is moderation is key. You must have balance in your life. You can't sit there and not even sleep and ignore.

Starting point is 01:13:39 And this is how I get when I play video games. If I get a new video game, I sit there and I can game for 11 hours straight, not eat, not sleep, not whatever. And I'm fine with it. And so this is kind of, she went on, you know, the correct word for this, seven went on tilt. If you're talking about a gambling or poker term, she went on tilt in this episode where all she could care about, the only thing she, that mattered to her was that holodeck. That's it. And when you obsess on something like that in your life, where everything else falls by the wayside, it's no good, man. I mean, you've got to, no, you've got to make it to work on time.

Starting point is 01:14:13 You've got to do, you got to, you have family obligations, you have work obligations. Real life. Real life obligations, you cannot sit here in a fantasy world and just disappear and leave. leave for eight hours a day, she was in the fantasy world. I mean, do you remember the episode, real life, speaking of real life, real life where the doctor created a holographic family? Yes. If seven had done something like that, I would.

Starting point is 01:14:37 You would have bought it. Totally bought it. You would have bought it. The Chacote, you know. Yeah. That just, yeah. But see, but see, this is what's so crazy. A slight pivot and you're okay with this episode.

Starting point is 01:14:50 This episode doesn't get poo-poohed by you. You know what I'm saying? Where it is, if it's followed the same format of the doctor in real life, that episode, you would have been absolutely fine. Yeah. So there you go. All right. So what is your rating?

Starting point is 01:15:04 I cannot wait to hear this. Do you really want to know? Yeah. And you know what? Don't, don't sugarcoat it. Please. I'm not. I'm not going to sure.

Starting point is 01:15:14 We're almost done with this whole thing. You know, if you get some critiques, we're almost done with the entire review of Voyager. Let us hear it, my man. I give this episode. a one. I hear you. I literally think this is a huge mistake on almost every level. I just,

Starting point is 01:15:33 I don't think this is a good episode. I know some people, it might be their favorite episode. Yeah. But to me, this was cringe-worthy squared. It was just, yeah,

Starting point is 01:15:44 I give it a one. I do. What about you? Four. So below, yeah, like below the halfway mark. I have not looked at this yet.

Starting point is 01:15:52 I have not looked at this yet. That's your lowest, I think, ever, by the way. And that is your lowest ever. We've never given it this low, ever. The captain and average rating, I'm nervous now. Yeah, it is 9.4. What is it? 5.7.

Starting point is 01:16:09 Okay, that is the lowest. That is the lowest of all the captains and admirals ratings that we've had in the entire time we've been doing ratings. So it's agreed upon across the board. We may have different levels of poo, but. Yeah, but it's definitely poo in all our books. because it's so, it's, it's completely from left field. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:26 And it starts with the intro scene. Because you sit there and you're like, and wait a minute. Wait, did you? Nothing happened. You know, you would start to think, did the editor screw up? Was there another part of that opening scene that we didn't get to see? I literally thought my TV had broken. When it faded out, I was like, because I've been having trouble with my, my, I have a projector

Starting point is 01:16:46 room. I watch it in. So the projector is having some issues. Yeah. It's been blacking out. Sure. the connection's not been good. Yes.

Starting point is 01:16:54 And so I literally thought when it faded, I thought, oh, oh, there it goes again. There it goes again. That darned reactor. And then I rolled it back. I'm like, no. No, that was it. That's how they actually did it. Now it's opening credits.

Starting point is 01:17:05 They went right now. So from the get go, opening scene number one, red flags everywhere for everyone watching this episode, unfortunately. Some very funny lines and some very funny dialogue that was written in there by the writers. Alan Craker did a beautiful job directing, even though he made Bob Walk two circles. arrest. I still like his direction. I thought whether it was scripted, like some of those shots in the first scene, I thought were him. No, it was in the script. It was all scripted. And you got to agree with me, that's also rare. Where it's laid out in that kind of detail. You've got to be getting

Starting point is 01:17:42 me. That's sort of like, it's almost like, did you even need Alan to show up here? Like, you just broke down every shot. It's, I don't know. And by the way, with our, And I know this is a small sample, our average ratings 5.7 and what you and I gave. Yeah. But, you know, people always say when I go to conventions, oh, threshold, the worst episode ever. Yeah. Was threshold a 5.7? I don't think so.

Starting point is 01:18:08 No, no, definitely not. It's not that low. No. I'm going to say threshold is like Lawrence of Arabia compared to this episode. So, uh, no. I wonder if I have. No. I wonder if I have my threshold ratings.

Starting point is 01:18:24 No, I get a little defensive about... Now, listen to me. Threshold, the only thing that turns people off is that ending. It's just the whole seeing the salamander babies is just like freaks people out. And I think that's it. Up until then it's a great episode. And then all of a sudden it's like, what? They have children.

Starting point is 01:18:40 They have offspring. And they're abandoned in a way. So it kind of leaves you with a sour taste in your mouth. That's what it is. That's it. But up until then, great acting by you, cool prosthetics, a great... you know, a great sci-fi premise.

Starting point is 01:18:53 Yeah, great sci-fi premise. I feel like this episode, the sci-fi was a C-storyline. The whole Warheads thing was almost like a C- or D storyline. Everything, the A storyline was the hookup. The B storyline was the makeout.

Starting point is 01:19:07 The C-storyline, it just kept, you know, it was a soap opera. Cringe, cringe, cringe. Okay. All right, let's put this behind us. Thank you, everyone for tuning in.

Starting point is 01:19:17 I'm sorry if Robbie and I sounded like, if this is your favorite episode, episode of Voyager. We apologize if we offended you, but we, this is our genuine feelings about this episode. And we're just going to say, thank you for tuning in to hear us gripe about this one. And join us next week where I'm sure we will have a much more positive outlook on Star Trek Voyager episodes in general. Join us for the episode Q2. In any episode that we have Q in it with John Delancey is a good episode. So I'm sure everything will be sunny, sunny skies and rainbows, back to normal again. So join us in for all of our Patreon patrons. Please join us for more

Starting point is 01:19:55 torture after this.

The Delta Flyers - Human Error

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