The Delta Flyers - In The Flesh

Episode Date: March 21, 2022

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch & recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is In the Flesh. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.In the Flesh:An alien species simulates Starfleet's San Francisco headquarters, training their own to pose as humans to invade Earth.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, & Brannon BragaAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Kelly Brown, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Mike Devlin, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey, Amber Eason, Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, AJ Freeburg, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Barbara S., Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, John Mann, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Megan Chowning, Tae Phoenix, Nicole Anne Toma, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Bronwen Duffield, Elly Post, Brandon May, Jeremy Mcgraw, & Jason BonnettAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, James Amey, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Dat Cao, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Jenna Appleton, Jason Potvin, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amy Tudor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Michael "Klink" Klinckhardt, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Melissa A. Nathan, Captain Jak Greymoon, David Wei Liu, David J Manske, Roxane Ray, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Cindy Holland, Robert Picard, Craig M. Nakashian, Julie McCain, & Will ForgThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager. Your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and of course my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Remember, you can get this full version of this podcast by signing up to become a Patreon patron at patreon.com. the Delta Flyers. So what is going on in Vancouver these days? Well, hello there. The weather's fine. I can't talk about anything else before I deal with my beard. Please talk about this beard. I'm very proud of this beard right now.

So I don't know if you notice, but it's a little straighter. It seems a little longer. It's kind of, yeah. Yeah, it's getting there, my winter beard. And so the funny thing is my beard usually clumps up really tight, like a brillo pad. Yeah, bushy and clumpy and, you know, it's that Scotch Irish thing. I don't know what it is, but I've always wanted a little straighter vibe on my beard. And I just haven't gotten it.

And I was mentioning that the other day at work on Resident Alien. Yeah. And the hair makeup people were like, well, you know, they make flat irons for beards. I was like, what? They said, yeah, they make a little mini flat irons. iron so you can flat iron it's like a hair flat iron but smaller but it's small okay and i was like they told me this i was like no way come on you're kidding this is you guys are teasing me this is a joke i did not believe it because i'm finishing work i'd go back to my office and on my desk is a little

mini flat iron oh my and some beard like uh straightening cream or something they had gotten for me which is so nice look at that so i was playing with it today and i was playing with it today and i I feel like it's kind of a success. I'm feeling pretty good about that. Yeah, it is longer and it is definitely much straighter than what I've used to seeing on you. So I think that you have found what you've been looking for. I've found it's a game changer for me. Yeah. It is a game changer. And I want to celebrate with my Tom Paris mocktail. Oh. Our Tom Paris cocktail hour that we do as one of our Patreon perks, I decided to go for those who, you know, don't drink alcohol and even for myself, mix it up. So I've got a mocktail mohito for our podcast today. I love it.

Tell me the ingredients of your mocktail mojito. Well, you're going to have to sign up for Patreon.com. Okay. You see the Tom Paris Cocktail Hour. Let me go sign up. Yes. Let me go sign I know that you have mocktail mojito. So mojito is a name of an alcoholic drink that people order. And you call it a mocktail in the beginning so that there's no alcohol. Yes. But are you getting creative and kind of in this trek mood? Have you named them?

We have named some of the cocktails. Really? You know, some I've just got to be straight up with what they are. So people can know how to make it themselves. Understood. But I have created some of my own cocktails. Yeah. Which is a mashup of some classic ingredients.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the episode that we will be reviewing for this week is in the flesh. Yeah, which is a title which I, honestly, I have no recollection of this title whatsoever. So in the flesh, it's one of those titles. It doesn't ring a bell, but it's okay. In the flesh.

In the flesh. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with this is going to be a fun episode. You're not even going to bet on who you think this episode revolves around? No. Nope. Okay, cool. We'll go with that. We're not going to talk about it.

Hey, you're right. Let's go watch this. Let's go watch In the Flesh. In the Flesh. Yeah, while you drink your mocktail. I'm excited. It's going to be perfect. All right, everyone.

We will be right back. Let's go watch in the Flesh. AsimR. Robbie and I are back from watching in the flesh. Yes, we are. We are back. It's kind of a very suggestive name for a title. It's a weird episode to me.

I've got to be honest. It's a weird title, though. It's a weird title. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. I get that they've taken on the form. You know, 8472 has taken on the flesh form of humans. Yes.

I get it. But it's, yeah, it's a weird, it's a little weird title. And a weird, it felt like a Twilight Zone episode to me. Like very twilight zoning. not as Star Trek-y for some reason. Really? Okay. All right.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. Let's jump right into, yeah, the logistics of this episode, written by Nick Sagan. Did you look up? Is that, is that Nick Sagan as in? I think it's Carl Sagan's kid. Yes. He is the son of fiction author and astronomer Carl Sagan. Wow.

He dropped out of high school, Nick Sagan. to study film. So he was a film buff, and he graduated from UCLA Film School in 1977. So, yeah, Nick Sagan is Carl's son. Very, very cool that he's crossed into the Star Trek world. It is cool. I just want to rewind what you just said.

You said he dropped out of high school. Is that right? And then yet he got a college degree without finishing high school? My son, Kyle, technically dropped out of high school. So did I, actually. So I'll go to me first. I dropped out of high school my senior year in the fall semester because I got a job in Atlanta, Georgia, in a play. And I would have had to have missed four to six weeks or something of classes.

And when I went to the principal and said, hey, I'm only two credits away from having all my requirements to graduate high school. I got this job as an actor. at the Alliance Theater, I want to do this play. And the principal said, well, I can't let you leave school and give you credit for it because he and the principal actually suggested to me, he said, if you technically drop out and then do this play in the fall semester and then come back, you can reenter high school in the winter semester, then you can graduate in the spring because you do only need two credits. So it was actually my principal's suggestion to formally drop out.

out and then come back. The problem is once I dropped out and started doing this play, I was like, well, if all I need is two credits, I can go to the community college, get college credit and high school credit. Right. So I ended up taking my final classes for high school at the community college and never went back to my high school, which is sad because I was really good friends with my, you know, but I just sort of, once I took that step out of high school to become sort of an adult, I never. went back so so you got your diploma eventually though the high school diploma i did i got my diploma because my community college credits that i served as to do served as my high school credits so anyway

nick zagan who wrote this episode yeah could have done the same thing yeah maybe he did maybe he did and i think it's cool that it wasn't story by nick sagan it was written by nick sagan so he wrote this script so that's that's even more of an accomplishment on his part i like it yeah i do And I think Nick Sagan had pitched, had pitched stories on Next Generation and actually came on to the staff of Next Generation in the last season. So he had a connection to Star Trek. Well, I was wrong. It was not the director who I thought I had guessed Alex Singer, and that is incorrect. Okay.

So, yeah, David Livingston directed this episode. And I was wrong, too. I thought it was maybe Terry Windell. I was going for a long shot there. but this was David Livingston. So we were still in our kind of old school, regular directors, classic Voyager directors with David Livingston. Yeah, and then let's talk about the guest stars real quick.

Let's talk about them. So Kate Vernon plays Valerie Archer. Her first job that she ever had that I could find was a movie called Chained Heat with Linda Blair. She must have been very young. I don't know this movie Chained Heard. But it sounds like a B movie. From what I recall, it was a B movie and it was in prison.

And I think it was a lady's prison is what it was. A lady's prison exploitation film. Something like that. Okay. But Kate Vernon must have been, she must have been very young. Yes. You know, a teenager at best. Of course.

Something like that. Yeah. I don't remember working with. Kate Vernon, no. Okay. But the fact that she was in chained heat with Linda Blair makes me smile. Yes. I love Kate Vernon.

I have not worked with her outside of this, but I have attended more than one convention where we have had long talks and hung out. Oh, yeah. She's awesome. She is awesome. And she went on to do Battlestar Galactica. So Ron Morris show after he left the Trek world. went on to do Battlestar Galactica.

So she plays Commander Tye's wife on that. Oh, wow. Yeah, and she did a great job on that. So I just adore her. I think she's wonderful. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, I know she's very popular in the fan world and the convention scene.

And she's originally Canadian, by the way. Yes. Yes. Her father was an actor. I think when she was very young, they moved from Canada to L.A. And she started, continued the family acting tradition. Yeah. And then Battlestar was a Canadian film show here in Vancouver.

So she probably, you know, works both in Canada and in the U.S. Okay. Another guest star in this episode is Zach Galligan. Good old Zach. Many people will know Zach from his most famous role, I think, was in Gremlins with Bob Picardo. Yeah. Yeah. So Gremlins is what he's most known for.

But of course, I got to hit his first credit that I could find, which was an ABC. after school special. Oh, I've watched those all the time. I love those. I love those too. Yeah, if you grew up in the 70s or early 80s as a kid. You knew what that was.

ABC after school specials were classic television. I did an ABC after school special when I lived in New York with Ian Zering, who went on to be a very famous part of the cast of Beverly Hills. Beverly Hills, 9-2-1-0. Ian Zerring and myself were in that. Yeah, Zach Gallaghan, awesome. I actually did a movie with Zach right after, yeah, right after Voyager finished. I went off and did this movie.

Oh, the movie with the drug stuff in it? Is that the one? Yeah, it was a movie called Infested. Yeah. It was a B movie with Zach Gallagher and myself. Do you have a lot of scenes with him? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had a bunch of stuff.

Oh, good news. five, six weeks and out near the Hamptons of Long Island. I love it. It was fun. Zach was a great guy. He was a lot of fun. Yeah.

And for me, I haven't, you know, obviously I know him from watching Gremlins, but I also know him, again, from the convention circuit. So I've seen him at many,

many different shows, and we always say hi to each other. And frankly, the very quick, the debut and quick ending of his character was a little abrupt for me. I'm like, oh, wait a minute.

No, no, no, no. A little bit more with Zach, but, you know, it is what it is. Yeah. All right. Next person. Tucker Smallwood is our other guest star, plays Bullock on this show. Admiral Bullock. Tucker is very well known to sci-fi fans for Babylon 5 and all kinds of things.

To jump to his first job. Yes. First thing I could find for Tucker Smallwood was a daytime soap opera called Somerset. I don't even know what that. It ran for like six years, seven years. It was that? Like 1970s? 1970 to 76 or something.

I've never even heard of that. Yes, he was on Somerset. Oh, wow. I don't even know of that soap opera. This was in the heyday of soap operas, the early 70s, when that was just, you know, daytime soap started 10 in the morning. Right. And went until, you know, dinner time.

Right. Well, you have that in common with Tucker. You guys both start, you know, you know, started to your whole career in the soaps. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And our last guest star, of course, Ray Walston. Ray Walston playing Boothby, just an amazing character. I had totally forgotten he was even on our show. So that was really fun to see him. Yeah. Was he on your next gen episode as well? Yes, Ray was played Boothby in the next gen episode I did as a guest star, First Duty. He passed away in 2001. So at the end of Voyager. Yeah. finishing Voyager.

Well, we got lucky to have him then on this show. Yeah, we did. We sure. Okay. Yep. Excellent. Well, thank you for that roundup of the guest stars. All right.

Let's start with our poetry synopsis like we normally do. And here is my haiku for In the Flesh. Yes. Fake Starfleet H.Q. Chikote undercover Janeway broker's truce. Mm. Here we go. I was doing some movement to that.

I saw that. Yeah, I'm going to do some movement for yours too. Okay. Let's hear your... All right. That was very nice. Here we go with our limerick for In the Flesh. I can't wait.

It's a Starfleet Academy deja vu. It feels real. Even Boothby's there too. Seven thinks fighting is the key. Janeway prefers diplomacy. And Chocote kissed an alien. Ew. Like that?

Nice, nice. I think we should do gestures and movements to every, every haiku I do. I need you to move around and I'm going to interpretive. Yes, interpretive dance. To the poems. Yes, those listening to the audio only are missing out. There are.

They are missing out. Yes. Interpretive dance movement that happens. These are the things that you get to see if you are a Patreon patron at the lieutenant level and above. You can watch us doing all this on video. which is quite funny. It's a real creative sandbox that we're in here.

It's just crazy creativity. You know, and we just keep adding extra features to our bonus material that are quite entertaining. And, you know, it just, this is stuff that kind of enlivens or energizes people for their day to just deal with life, you know?

So they have something to sort of a little bit of respite from the craziness of the world is what we offer. I would actually recommend for all those listening. If you would like to move along as you listen to the podcast, just do a little dance move as you listen and interpret our podcast at home. Just move around and act out in an interpretive dance sort of way, the episode as we recap it. I would highly recommend that.

Good idea. But so, I mean, they could do this in public as well, but they will probably be stared at my privacy of your own home if you don't want to be arrested probably stay away from doing strange gestures in public okay good good call a good call all right let's jump right into it we are essentially well the opening scene is boothby picking a flower so that is yeah pretty cool to see i was so excited to see him up there ray walston first first thing picking a flower and I was like not only excited about Boothby but I was like oh my gosh we're back at the Japanese gardens at the poop factory yeah this is where okay so Star Trek is shot at

this this water reclamation plant it's basically the water treatment facility in the valley but you call the poop factory they clean the poop water but they've got nice Japanese gardens there that look kind of sci-fi and Star Trek is shot there for you multiple times there's Ray Alston and the poop factory. I was so excited. Oh, my goodness. All right. Well, you're lucky that you got to shoot there before, right, on TNG.

You worked at the poop factory. What? I wasn't in those scenes. Oh, my goodness. And yet again, you missed it again. And I didn't get to be on those scenes either. It was just Chocote and Tuvok. All right.

So picking a flower. Then we see a shot of Admiral Bullock. And he's handing out these duty postings. And then we see Chacote is taking these hollow images of different groups of Starfleet personnel kind of gathering in different parts of now let's talk about the hollow camera that he used yeah let's look let's talk about it is bigger it is like the size of a lady's purse and i'm thinking like we have iPhones in our hand now that can do everything the tricorder does the his hollow imager like it felt so old school what i was like wow this was old

old time old in times definitely i mean to be if you want to talk about the future in reality our com badges should be equipped with a camera to be able to view everything and take you know what i'm saying i mean like come on and he's he's holding something that's so chunky it's even bigger than a polaroid camera and everyone thinks okay polaroid massively huge and this thing is it's that you're right it's the size of a purse and it's just way too big it was huge it's just way too big it's It's huge, but it's the 90s. So let's give it up for the 90s. We see him taking some photos.

And then we pick him up as he's sort of scanning with his tricorder. He's scanning some bamboo. Yeah. And Boothby comes up and says, hey, I can tell you, that's bamboo. Yeah. Chikote is like, well, it's weird because, you know, my tricorder says that this is maple. So immediately we're like, wait, something's off here. for me, I was immediately.

And Boothby goes, yeah, maybe you should take that tricorder over and trade it in, you know. Yeah, logistics, logistical support. I think that was not a good cover for Chikote. He should have come up with a different explanation. Yeah, let's talk about Chukotay in the whole episode. How many foolish, foolish mistakes Chukotay makes. It's true. He just comes off.

Spoiler alert, but here's my issue. Sure. Chiquote comes off like a naive and foolish character. Oh. And not very smart to me in this episode. Okay. From the beginning. He's like, he's immediately saying, oh, my tricorder's not working. Yeah.

What the heck? Yeah. Why? Why are you telling anybody this is clearly super suspicious that there's a Starfleet, you know, there's a ship, a hollow ship. Like, once we know the story and why Chakotay is there, it's like why is he giving up anything he's there as a spy on this hollow ship yeah that's got a starfleet simulation going why would you say anything that's true

yeah why wouldn't you just play along with their game the whole time that's your best shot at staying undercover i don't know yeah but he didn't expect booth be to walk up on him like that so he had a he had to think quick on his feet and that was the best that he could come up with but I do commend him for staying cool under pressure. Like, he didn't lose it at any point. But yes, he did come up with things. He's always cool. Yeah.

But I think Chocote in his free time, you know, partakes in a little mellowing agent, let's say. He just stays a little mellow all the time. What's from all the vision quest he's gone on? All the Yakuchi-Moya he's done. He's been really, he's always in sort of a mellow state. That's okay. You know, I mean, that's to each his own.

And if he wants to acucci moya, he can acutche moya. It's fine. Cucci moya before his spy mission. Yeah, we don't have to judge Chacote for that, you know? No. He's a mellow guy. He's a mellow guy. Well, we do learn that Boothby has been the groundskeeper for 54 years.

Yeah, so Boothby's been there a long, long time. All right. And he walks Chocote to logistical support. Chocote asked to take a photo with him with Boothby. Yes. And Boothby calls this. cadet over and he says, don't cut off our heads. And what does she do? She cuts off Chacote's head. It's like, come on. You had one instruction. You had one job to do cadet and you ruined it.

I think that's expulsion from Starfleet Academy. Yeah. Yeah. With that giant camera. Okay. So we cut inside this lounge in the headquarters, which is a nice lounge. Yeah, it's actually. Yeah. And it's referred to. We know the name of it later. It's the officer's club. And it's called the Quantum Cafe is the name of it. Oh, I missed that. It's It's funny. It's absolutely beautiful. Yeah, it was very beautiful. He meets a lovely young lady named Valerie Archer.

Right. And they're immediately, immediately they're kind of flirty, very quick to flirt. So that's his spy mission is to go and flirt, I guess. Janeway. Yes, I love the intro, though. I love the intro, because Chotei sort of walks up and just sits down in the chair and she's like, hey, you're in my seat and you're reading my book. So it's a nice intro into her character.

and then she asked, well, do you want my drink as well? And he says, depends what it is? And she says, cling on martini. And what the heck is his name? He introduces himself. Do you remember this? No. She says, Valerie Archer, nice to meet you.

And he says, Jason Hayek. Hayek. Jason Hayek, which is just so odd. Yeah, that is odd. Yeah, like, how'd you come up with that name? Like, Hyac? Yeah. Just weird.

And why wouldn't you just use your name? so in case someone calls, you're familiar with it. Exactly. Like it's a risky move to use some. He should have said Chikote, because he's in the database, right? So he should have said his real name. I'm Chikote, Chikote. Or what is Chikote?

We don't even know his last name. No, that's what I was thinking of this episode. He's only got one name. Right. Yeah. Unless we use Janeway or Kate Mulgrews, a funny comment, Chuck Ote. So he's actually Irish. He's Irish.

Yeah. Yeah. They're sitting and talking. And then there's, an officer behind them in the corner starts spasming and starts, you know, convulsing and his skin is all changing and freaked out. And nobody seems to freak out. They just sort of escort him out, help them out. Yep. And then Valerie Archer turns back to Chakotay and says, oh, have you ever reverted? So immediately we know. Now we know. Now we know. They're not really humans. We're not really

Starfleet. We don't know where they, yeah. Yes, they're reversed. She asked if she, if he's reverted and he says no, he hasn't reverted yet. And she says that Ensign O'Halloran has reverted three times this week. He might have to be kicked out of the training. And so then Chakotas is like, hmm, training. One of the three things that bother Archer, we learn a lot about Archer. We learned first of all in her, her, you know, Starfleet's self that she's been all over the galaxy with her parents since the age of 10. And then Chacote says, oh, Starfleet Brat. And this is the first time I've heard this.

Oh, yeah, that's right. You know, we hear military brat all the time as Americans. And so now we hear Starfleet brat is the first time I've heard this and you as well. And we know that as a 8472 posing as a human, the three things that bother Archer are breathing oxygen, bipedal locomotion and sleeping. Because I guess they never sleep. And I just, I just love this whole interesting here. Yeah, it's funny that she's like, I can't get used to the sleeping thing. I have to read Vulcan philosophy to fall asleep.

And he's, and Chocote, I love, he's like, oh, I hate Vulcan philosophy. And then Archer says something like, right, think human, talk human, be human. So that must be their, you know, their mantra is think human, talk, human, be human. But they make a date for 1900 hours. Yeah, she's going to be his guy. died to show him around Starfleet headquarters, 1900. Meet at the same place at the officers club. And then Tuvok shows up.

Good old Tuvok. Tuvok shows up and says, hey, we've got to go work, Chakotay, or whatever's name is. Yeah, Jason Hayek. Jason Hayek. We need to go work. And Chikotay excuses himself. And we realize that Tuvok and Chukotay are undercover. Yeah.

And he says out loud, finally, yeah, these are aliens posing as humans. Tovok's not happy. He's like, I thought we agreed to limit our investigation to surveillance. And he's like, you know what? This interaction with that officer was worth it because now I found out training is happening. Because he's flirting. He's going to kiss and alien eventually. He doesn't know that yet.

He doesn't know that yet. He said he was going to stand her up on the meeting. Remember? He says like, well, I'm not, I don't plan on making that meeting. And they're due back to the transporter coordinates. So now they're walking. Just as they approach the. transport a coordinate, Zach Galligan shows up.

Ensign, Zach Gallaghan. Edson Gentry is his name. Yeah, he shows up. He shows up and he says, you were not authorized to be where you were. You need to come with me. And they're like, sorry, nope. Ensign, Zach Gallaghan puts his hand on his phaser. He caresses his phaser. Very gently. It's not pulling it. He's just like, hey, phaser, nice to see you. I'm here. Yeah. I love you. And then, yeah. And that's when they have to stun.

him. Okay. Well, Vulcan, okay, Tuvok Vulcan neck pinches him. But doesn't that only work for like human anatomy or or or at least alpha quadrant species only? Did he Vulcan? Did he Vulcan neck pinched? Yeah. He went like that. Because like, because initially, Jacote says like, Ensign, I'm sorry, we don't have time to be debriefed. And we need, we, we have other, other more pressing issues to attend to. And as he starts to walk away, that's when he's caressed. his phasers, like, no, you got to come with me. And so then Chikote acquiesces. He says, okay, fine, I'll follow you.

So as Chikote leads, Gentry follows. Tuvok gets right behind him and Vokin neck pinches him. And I thought, he's 8472. That's not going to do anything to 8472. You know, I mean, I just, I felt that was like, hmm, that was, it was a little bit of taking a, a artistic license. Yes, too much liberty there. Okay.

Agreed. He passes out, Zach Gallaghan, you know, passes out. Yeah. And they're beamed back. We cut to sick bay. Actually, we cut to not sick bay. We cut to the Delta Flyer interior.

Oh, that's right. Paris and Kim. And Paris is like, well, who's that? And then Kim's like, what was down there?

So we're just, you know, we're waiting with bated breath to find out what's happening. And that slumped over, Ensign Gallaghan and some gentry is sitting in the Delta Flyer with us. But then we go to sick bay.

And of course, that is when Gentry wakes up. And Janeway starts, you know, interrogating him, giving him the nth degree. And all he says is name, rank, and Starfleet service number over and over again. And he's not cooperating. So Janeway says to the doctor, go ahead, sample his DNA. He brings the hypol spray over.

And I didn't realize a hypospray is not only for injecting stuff, but I guess you can pull things out of people too, extract things out. Yeah. So as he's trying to inject this, extract this DNA from Zach Galligan, that's when he's He knocks his hand away and he backs up against the wall and he starts screaming, Don't touch me. Disease, humans. Ah.

And then he does something where he goes, he released as a cellular toxin into his own bloodstream. Yeah. Kills over and dies. Yeah. Kills over and dies. Very drastic. Yes. And then we go to astrometrics.

And now they're looking through all the photos that Chukotay took with his giant camera. Right. And Janeway sees Boothby up there and she recognizes Boothby. And she does. She's like, oh, he was there when I was at Starfleet Academy and he used to give her fresh roses for her quarters, which is a very important moment right here. And they say this recreation is very accurate. Yeah.

How did they find this out? Jamie wants to know, was it, did they have access to some database? Right. Maybe she even says, maybe they're always. already on Earth. So we don't know right now if this recreation has come from information gathered. No, but they don't know how they do it. But also, like, why are we in astrometrics to do this?

Why aren't we in the briefing room to do this thing? You know, it's kind of weird that we're in astrometrics, I think. Yeah. Seven does. Well, they do use the view screen in astrometrics to kind of analyze the holo ship that, so they realize that it's got these thermal generators or whatever and, you know, they. What? No, they're in the, they're in astrometrics the whole time. They don't go to the, the briefing room here.

Yeah. Stay here, though, is what I'm saying. But, but, but they're talking, they're, they're looking at the hollow ship up on the screen. Yeah, on the screen of astrometrics. I was just saying, like, why are we in astrometrics to do this? We could, we usually do this kind of a meeting in the briefing room. Exactly. That's what confused me, except for maybe this is the only way to bring seven in on this, you know, because seven works there.

Because she's the one that says, this is a combination of holographic projection and particle synthesis powered by 13 thermionic generators beneath the city. So this is how we learn of the details of this recreation. The doctor chimes in that he has finished the analysis, the autopsy, and that she needs to head to sick bay. In sick bay is where the doctor triggers a genetic reversion by using cytokinic injection and David Gentry, Ensign David Gentry, transforms into species eight, four, seven, two. And it's huge. They do this cytokinetic injection. Yes.

And from the human form lying on the bed, it grows, almost like, you know those little sponge things that used to get where it was like put a couple drops of water on it? And it would expand into this giant. Yes. That's what this looked like to me. Exactly. And I got to say, I didn't think this VFX, and our VFX department's awesome, but I didn't think this was great. It felt, you know, again, it was the 90s. It was old school.

felt a little like I'll tell you what okay I agree with you but I also disagree with you because I did like the fact that the vis effects showed the pillow moving off when his head got really big and then the pillow kind of moved off the side of the pillow moved off and I was like yeah the blanket sort of moved around I like that I'm going to say they they definitely were aware of all the details and nuance that would happen in this sure sure I just don't think we had the money or the technology at our disposal to do this as well as it needed to be done. Right. But for the 90s, it was fine. For the 90s, it was fine. And, and, you know, there's some good shots. Okay, what would our current day technology have done differently from what you saw in that

shot? Like, how would you? I think that most of what they created for this transition from human to the 8472 was what would be called a 2D transformation. So it was literally like images manipulated, you know, two-dimensional images manipulated to create almost like a painting of this. Now we've got computer abilities to create full three-dimensional CG aliens that would respond to the light, the environment, the depth perception, all of those things. This was more of a painting of an 8472, not as much 3D modeling. Okay. With the detail of lighting and shadow and dimension and all of those things.

I think for what our budgets allowed and what we could do back then, this was a great, very ambitious effect. But nowadays, you would definitely, we do this on Resident Alien. There's often on Resident Alien, you know, Alan Tudek plays the human form. but if we flash to his real alien form, it is a St.G alien, a 3D model that is manipulated. Okay. Very lifelike, very realistic.

Yeah. My gosh, if we had, gosh, if CBS Paramount just had the time and money to throw into remastering all the Voyager episodes and changing all the visits. Some of these things. Shots, it'd be so cool. It would be very cool. So cool.

It would be very. Let's move on. So we're in the briefing room. Janeway's hair is another fabulous new look. And Tom explains, he uses the metaphor about the Soviet Union. He goes in the 20th century. Yes. The Soviet Union created these entire American towns.

Yes. And where they would simulate being in America so they could infiltrate and fit in. Also, I did notice, you know, three of us are standing. I think you and me and seven are standing. Everyone else is sitting. Janeway standing. And I looked, I counted the chairs. I'm like, why aren't we all?

sitting down. Are we missing chairs? It was the weird. No, there were enough chairs for all of us to sit down. It was absolutely no reason for us to be standing. I think this felt like, I think this was a Livingston call. I think he just said, you know what, I'm going to change this up. I'm not going to have everyone sitting. Half of you stand. And it just. But it was no reason for us to be standing. There's no reason for it except to be different, except to be a different from the norm. That's all. Yeah. It was weird. Yeah. So Janeway's confused. She wants to know why are these people, Why are these 8472 training to pose as human beings?

And by the way, Chacote says to everyone in the room, he goes, well, you know, I made a date with this woman. I can maybe go back and go on this date and use her to get information. Yeah. And I'm like, I looked at Kate's performance. Did you look at? Yeah. How did she play it? She kind of, at first she was like, great.

And then after everybody was leaving, she looked over at him. She was like, a little bit of like, really? Are you really going to go do this? say this in front of everybody and put me in this position. Oh, J.C. Shippers are not happy right now. Not happy at all. No, no, no, no, no. But Janeway's willing to do it because she says, you know, we may be the last defense against a total and all-out invasion of Earth.

Yeah. So, all right, he's going to go out to date with the alien. Well, Janeway orders Tuvok to work on a way to target the power source. She orders seven to prepare nanoprobe warheads. And she orders Harry and Tom to take Chacote back in the Delta Flyer. and keep a constant... For his date. Yes, for his date.

And I love it. She's like, keep a constant transporter lock on Chikote. I want you to pull him out at any second, especially if he's doing anything weird. Especially if he starts kissing an 8472.

She started making out with 8472. I need you to pull him out. But, yeah, so she's not happy inside, but she realizes this is important. We're back in Astrometrics again, and Janeway is asking Chikote, are you doing last-minute preparations?

And he's like, just planning for my big night out. And she says, I can recommend a nice Japanese replomat on the Embarcadero. What the heck is a replomat? It's like an automat. Like the old 1950s where you'd go and get, it must be a bunch of replicators, like a diner. It's got to be like a diner. I get it.

But why didn't she just call it a Japanese restaurant or diner? I don't know. Have you heard that term before? No, but I've heard automat, the automat diner. We're very popular. They were very modern in the 50s and 60s. You'd go and the food would kind of be in little boxes and you'd pick out your foods. Okay, okay, okay.

And actually there's a few. But I've never heard repliment. Yeah, there's a few companies that are doing that now where you don't even interact with anybody. You order your stuff and it comes out of a box and you take it. And yeah, I've seen that in Chicago at a restaurant that I was at. Okay. So she says that the last time that she was at Starfleet headquarters that she was receiving

her general orders for Voyager's first mission, proceed to the badlands and find the marquee. And J.C. Shippers everywhere will rejoice at Chakotay's response, the orders that brought us together. Yes. So, you know, we have a little redemption for the J.C. Shippers out there. If you, if you enjoy Janeway and Chiquet as a couple, there you go. The orders that brought us together. There's a little moment. There's a little moment there. The orders that brought us together. But then she says something. They're talking about their last memories. And she asked him a question. And she's clearly trying to test him and trick him. He's like, wait, are you testing me? Right.

Because he talks about resigning. Because he says the last time I was there was when I resigned my commission. And I remember the look on Admiral Nemebe's face that he was shocked that I was doing this. And so then she quizzes him. Oh, yeah, Nemebe. You taught at Starfleet Academy. Wasn't it interspecies ethics? And immediately Chikotei has this double take.

He's like, what? No. Tactical analysis. Everybody. Yeah, everyone knows that. Yeah. And now he knows, too, what she's doing, right? Yeah.

And he's like, you want to test my blood? And she says, I've already sent Tuvuk to Sick Bay. She's already ahead of it. She's one step ahead on the chessboard. And then we go to the hall. They're heading to Sick Bay because he's going to get tested. She's like, yeah, I've got to test you. Smart move.

And then we realize in the hallway walk that she's testing the entire group. She wants to make sure that nobody on this ship. And there's a security detail behind them. You notice that? Just in case you co-tay turns into 8472, he can get shot down. They get to sick bay. And this is where we learn when the doctor says, two down, 125 to go. So the two down are Chakotay and Tuvac and Tuvac.

And Tuvac. So they're not including the captain, right? Janeway's not included, or at least Picardo is not including the captain in his estimation. Yeah. Right. So that means there are currently 128 crew members on, because that's always a question. People we always ask, how many people are on Voyager? Well, according to season five, episode.

That seems really low. That seems really. really 128 really 128 seems low because i feel like we did this math once before yeah just a couple seasons back and we were like in the 170s or something so where did all those we lost 50 people crew members do you really remember one 170 something wow i feel like i mean we have had people die along the way have we definitely have had that but i don't remember 50 50 going down yeah that's a lot we're gonna run out of people soon we're gonna okay um delta flyer interior kim hans jacotea tricorder enhanced with transoptic data link in order to help

him access the eight four seven two systems and a type one phaser modified to fire board nanoprobes and paris begins with his immortal line do you always arm yourself before a first date which is very funny look at the light banter that we have after business is conducted by uh yeah we have like banter, but it's a little bit like boys' locker room in there. Is it really? They're all talking about dating a girl from another galaxy. I don't know. I felt like

it was a little bit boys' locker room in there. Yeah, but it wasn't a... I didn't love it. It didn't feel like on mission. Sick Bay. Seven is... Seven has increased the nanoprobe cellular motel. Look at that. Say that 10 times fast. Cellular motility

by over 200%. So in layman's terms, These nanoprobes are moving faster than they ever did before, and they test it on the corpse. The doctor hopes for a diplomatic solution. He would rather not use these nanoprobe weapons, and he talks about optimism. Yeah, but seven is like she is not optimistic at all. She says the species 8472 with the board would never even contemplate being diplomatic with them. so yeah he's trying to remain light he's like anything's possible if you keep your open mind

keep an open mind be optimistic and and then seven reminds the doctor about earth's world war three when 600 million casualties uh you know occurred because of nuclear weapons because of nuclear weapons yeah and uh was that optimism that led to that and so so that was an interesting it was detail and verbal jousting between the doctor and seven we go down to the lounge now the quantum cafe yeah the quantum cafe booth being archer are chatting in a corner we don't hear what they're talking about and they say but as as chukotay approaches they're like oh we were just talking about you yeah um so i feel like there's a little bit of yeah they're checking you know they're suspicious of chukotay too or if i were him i would have thought that's like why are you talking about me

I did notice the jazz flute in the background. Yes, I heard that too. Did you? I liked it. I actually was like, listen to that. Yeah, it was very jazzy. Yes. Yeah, very swinging, loungy.

It just made me think of Cisco, Captain Sisko, how jazzy he speaks. So, all right. She has been offered a field commission as the first officer on the starship Horcha, which is a Klingon vessel. And then we learned that, you know, Boothby told her to smile when you eat the gach. And she then kind of recites how you say it in Klingon. And then she says, hey, do you like the dance? And this is my favorite part of the scene.

Yeah. It's pawn far night at the Vulcan night club. Ponfar night at the Vulcan nightclub. What the hell? What did you start thinking about there? Well, if you want to. I'm just trying to picture it. I'll tell you who wants to go.

Everyone from Voyager wants to go to Club Tuvok. Remember, we talked about Club Tuvok on our... Yeah, but Club Tuvok's very kind of mellow and chill. Pond Farr night. Like, just picture a nightclub filled with everybody experiencing Pond Farr. Like, that sounds... That sounds like chaos.

Intense. Yeah, that's a little too crazy. And just like traumatic, okay? That's traumatic. I literally screamed out loud. when she said that. Ah! I was like,

no! Okay, very funny. We go to the Delta Flyer, and it's Paris and Harry in the Delta Flyer. Oh, Harry's so nervous. Harry's nervous. He's pacing around. Tom has a line.

Take it easy, Harry. We didn't build the Delta Flyer that would stand such extensive pacing. Yes. I thought that was cute. It was a cute line. I do feel like in this scene, though, as they talk and they're kind of worried,

and it's just a little bridge scene, you know, story to the next, not a bridge of the Voyager. But there's no coverage. It's only one. It's literally one. Single shot down low. And it's the classic, you know, David Livingston's favorite super wide lens. It was not very flattering. It was fish eye. Yeah. And it felt it felt like we were addressing, you know, I was doing a lot of fake pushing of buttons so that I would keep my face toward camera and I don't know it just felt like I wish we had covered that scene I agree 1,000 percent and when I first was watching this scene I thought is there something

wrong with my television or what's happening because as I'm watching that especially because you're doing a business with your hands as your hands are closer to camera your fingers they're so elongated it's like ET fingers they're huge and then you turn to Kim and you're speaking to Kim the minute you turn around, your hands shrink to, like, Hobbit size. It's a distorting, yeah, it's a distorting lens. And that's what I knew that was Livingston. For film buffs out there and lens nerds, lens sizes on a 35 millimeter film camera would approximately be something like this.

The human eye sees in about a 28 millimeter lens. So what a 28 millimeter lens would see is like what our eye would see. And then as you get longer on the lens, like a 35, a 50, a hundred, things like that, it's zooming in beyond what the human eye could do. Right. To go the other direction from a 28 millimeter, as you go down to a 23, a 21, 2018, 15, it starts getting wider than a human eye. So it becomes unnatural. I think...

What do you think that lens is that he used on that one? I know for a fact, David would always talk about the 14 millimeter. The 14 mil. 14 millimeters was his favorite lens. So my guess is it was at least as wide as a 14, if not wider. Possibly wider. Yeah. Yeah.

So it is distorting twice as wide as the human eye would see at 14 millimeters. It is double what's normal. Yeah. So it's a weird... Yeah, it's not normal. It's a distorted lens. I hate it. And we already know I hate this.

I've said this in season one. I don't. I don't hate the lens. I know you don't, but I can't stand it. I'm sorry. I think there is a time and a place for that lens because it is a very effective. And there's a reason to use a 14,

just like there's a reason to use an 80 millimeter. Like there are reasons to use those different lens sizes. But this was the wrong application in my opinion. All right. So let's move on to Archer's quarters. And boy, they're nice. We're in her. And as they walk into her quarters, Chocote is finishing a story about when there was a

transporter malfunction, his clothes, uniform was separated. And all he was left with was his combat. And I'm thinking, wait a minute, your com badge can cover your privates. Like, what she says, she says, I hope it covered your, you know, I hope it put it in the right place. And he, I, yeah, he didn't say that he did cover his privates with it. It's a funny story. It's very. provocative. I love the comment that she has and she talks about how human beings are quite the paradox. And she says at first glance, they're so primitive. Genetic impurities. Violent. No telepathy, violent. And yet they've created so many beautiful ways to communicate their ideas, literature, art, music. I just love that little piece of writing by Sagan. And it just shows a little bit of,

you know, that she kind of enjoys, or this 8472 kind of enjoys the human experience. The human experience, yeah, being in this form. She sees some positive points to being human. And she then says, listen, I've got to go perform an isomorphic injection. Do you need one? And I love Chacote's very current response. No, I'm good. I don't even.

Jacote's then scans the alien terminal with his modified tri-corder. He's over by her bookshelf. He kind of glances at her books and her little alien monitor, tiny alien monitor, and he looks over. And then there's this sort of shan, shadow of her getting undressed, which I just felt like was very old school. It's old school, but what was funny was, Robbie, when she gets, she pulls off the first garment and her silhouette is exactly the same. It's like, wait a minute, is she wearing the exact same outfit

underneath? It doesn't even look like she is weird. Nude at the time. It was a little odd. No. And then she comes out in a robe and she gives herself an inject. She pulls it up, like her leg is exposed, the side of her thigh, gives herself an injection. And you see this sort of shimmering of the eight four seven to you know um yes skin underneath i guess yeah she comes out of that little area after she injects herself and she says commander how do you like the view meaning the view but it's a you know it's a sort of double meaning double meaning there on the balcony or do you like this view of my shadow of my shadow wearing the exact same outfit i just took off and i'm still wearing the same thing i'm telling you his response to do you like the

view was super flirty i was like wait a minute oh he's like he was very really getting into this and so i understand he's on a mission he's got to kind of confuse her um but they go out of the balcony they go out yeah they go out in the balcony and he expresses concerns that um you know why are we even doing going through all this trouble what if the you know i don't think the federation is really a threat and she's like well a threat yeah she's like they are they they they partnered with the borg you know they're out to kill us they're out to ruin us and but they're also getting very flirty during this conversation and very close and very heated yeah not in the angry way but in a flirty way there he did agree in chikote's uh defense he does say look i got to go yeah he cuts it off

right he's starting to feel a little something he's like look i got to go classic move and then she follows him to the door and she's like it's customary you know in the human form uh to have a kiss it's customary to kiss at right good night at the door yeah and And I wrote down, awkward this kiss because she doesn't know how to kiss and he's sort of pulling away. He's backing away because he realizes this is 8472 about the smooch him. So he's like, for the moment, he's sane. He knows that this is 8472, not a human. Yeah.

And she goes in for an awkward kiss. Yeah. But then they pause for a moment and he spins her around and kisses her passionately. And I was like, dude, it's 8472. No, he realized, wait a minute. He was like, her lips don't feel like. like eight four seven two so that's when he said i'm gonna just go for it that's what he did jc shippers are crying at this moment going no no but he leaves and then she shuts the door goes in and we

realize she scans her hand not her lips but her hand to get his DNA yeah don't you find it wait ravi i just want to stop it for once like don't you find it a little odd why the heck she didn't scan her hand or any other part of her body after pawnfire night because if they're dancing at Ponfar night, there would have been some touching there, too. There would have been lots of touching. Yes. She could have scan, God knows what, but she would have been able to scan it. And then she would have known already earlier.

But she didn't do that. So I thought that was a bit of a miss. She discovers that he's human, though. With his DNA analysis and, uh-oh, covers blown, we know. Yeah, she reports to Boothby. Boothby. She reports to Boothby, and we got to stop him. And it's nighttime here.

And she says, oh, this will be much easier. Let's go to daylight. This would be much easier. And we cut outside seeing Trichote walking through the garden in the dark. And then all of a sudden, the light changes and it's daylight, which I thought was cool. That was a cool bit. And then he sees different groups of Starfleet walking towards him like the Stepford wives. Like they're all like weird.

It was that. See, this is where you felt is the Twilight Zone. This was the Twilight Zone moment for you right here? This was very weird because they're not approaching. aggressively. And they're not, and they're not just, like, stepping out and blocking him. It was a weird, like, we are walking, like, step for... Step for wives.

Yeah, it was weird. I wish in this moment that they had just kind of stepped out in his path in a number of places and stopped. Like hundreds of them everywhere? It should have been either hundreds or it should have been just like six. But this is a weird, like, there were 15 or 20. So it was just like a weird middle ground. And they kept kind of close walking with each other.

And it was just, they were. They didn't spread out. Staging. It was really odd staging. I didn't like it. Well, again, it's 1990s, you know, filming, right? So we're back in the 90s. If we had current technology, they could have made it look like a Lollapalooza concert.

Yeah, we're hundreds or thousands of people or coming at them, which would have been even creepier to see that. That would have been super cool. But I still think that even, you know, six or eight, security-like people just coming out with weapons, blocking his path in a number of ways, would have been enough. This was just a weird. Well, didn't one guy draw his phaser? I think one guy draws him.

And then Chocote shoots him. And I felt bad for him because that phaser is filled with nanoprobes. So that dude's done. You know, so I was like, oh, poor 8472. But then the rest of those people, when they were marching towards him, nobody had their phasers drawn. Nobody had anything going on, right? You would think that they would all go, reversion.

and they all turn into 8472s and start coming at them like that, but they didn't do it. Nope. No. We go to the ready room. Seven tells Janeway, they've got the photon torpedoes armed.

Yeah. With the nanoprobes ready to go. Janeway wants to, uh, Moore. wants her to make more, more, my,

says, nope, we've depleted our supply. And Jamie says, do whatever you have to do. Grow them in a petri dish. I don't care. She was very funny. How them extract them from your bloodstream.

It's like, I thought, I felt she was a little harsh on seven at this point. She's like, I don't care. You better, you know, have them take it out of your skin or your blood like that. I was like, you're a little mean right now to just a little bit. But she's concerned.

Janeway feels like if she gets into a firefight, she doesn't want to run out of ammunition. She wants to have. She wants to be prepared for the battle. But then she ultimately she says she can't stop thinking about directive 010. Yeah. Which mandates that you must attempt all diplomatic resolutions before engaging any alien species in battle. And so this is really the turning point where we realize, okay, she's got this directive in her head. She really wants to be diplomatic, but she's going to be ready for battle. We cut out

to the bridge. Janeway hears from Paris and Harry say they've lost contact with Chakotay. He's in trouble. Yeah, but they haven't been detected yet. Yeah. And we can't beam them out because they erected a force field over the entire thing. We can't even, yeah. We cut down to the lounge. I call it. Quantum. Okay. Quantum Cafe. Quantum Cafe. Quantum Cafe. I had Boothby and Archer questioning Chacote. I love that Boothby drinks 200-year-old single malt whiskey. Very classy, classy drink. I knew you would catch that.

I was like, oh, yeah. So Aberbillet comes in and says, hey, Starship is approaching. And this whole time, Jacote has been arguing that Voyager is there to retrieve him, not to invade, not to attack 8472. And Starfleet and the Federation is more or less a peaceful organization. organization that wants peace, and we're not looking for a battle. And they don't believe it. Boothby's like, okay, Archer, I'm going to order a genetic extraction from Chocote to help us get a little more information in terms of maintaining our human forms. And then Boothby and

Bullock then take off to deal with Voyager approaching. We jump to the bridge and Voyager is being scanned by the 8472 and Paris calls in saying, hey, they already took some pot shots. at us. Can we join you? So Paris and Kim join Voyager. The Delta Flyer pulls in. And seven in this this bridge scene, seven wants to fight. She's like, let's do this. We got to fight. She does because Janeway says target their weapons array. And then seven's like, no, we should target everything. Their power source and everything. She's like, we don't kill them. We just want to stop them from shooting at us. So we realize that that directive, 010 is really, you know, dictating everything that that Janeway is doing. And that's a good thing. That's what we need. And it really draws a distinction between

Seven's point of view of let's fight seven. With her memories and history with eight four seven two Oh yeah. These guys, we can't play around with these guys. We can't trust them. Agree. Janeway's got Starfleet regulations in her head and wants to try diplomacy. So yeah, we go back down to the Quantum Cafe. Chikote is trying to convince Archer that that they mean no harm. And she gives him that shot, that extraction or whatever. Yeah, I like that cool alien 8472 hypolspray. It looked pretty cool. I like that. Yeah, it was pretty cool.

Chikote says something. He quotes George Bernard Shaw. He says, there are no secrets other than the secrets that keep themselves. And she's like, Shaw. Yeah. And so he saw this book on her bookshelf when

she was taking off her clothes as a shadow. And so he knows that maybe I can use, because she did say she liked some of the human qualities of literature and art. So that's why he's thinking, okay, I'll quote Shaw, the book she's got on her shelf. Maybe that'll maybe, maybe I'll get through to her this way. Exactly. And she's like, I like you. Your complex mind is very tricky. Yeah. And he continues and says, as long as we keep spying on each other, making assumptions about each other, we probably will go to war. Yeah. And I was like, that line bumped for me. I was like,

what do you what as long as we keep spying on each other and making assumptions we'll go to war yeah it was just very heavy-handed i don't know it just was weird anyway then there's an alarm voyagers close we go back on the bridge boothby and janeway speak you know she threatens to use these board nanoprobes yeah but she also says an armed conflict is not going to solve these problems yeah and she says how about a class reunion yeah but i love how both of them are speaking as if boothby is Boothby. It's real Boothby. Yeah, Boothby's like, don't you sass me, young lady.

And it's just, he didn't speak like A472, which would not have used any of that type of dialogue. So, again, I enjoyed Nick Sagan's use of Boothby's way of speaking in this scene of being on the view screen. And then we jump to the briefing room, yes? Yep. And the first line is targ manure. Targ manure.

Let's start saying that from now on. Is it targ manure? that he says, right? Targ manure, yeah. Targ manure. Yeah. Boothby thinks that, you know, that the Federation's prime directive and tolerance and all of this is just targ manure.

Yeah. Janeway says, you know, tries to convince him about the prime directive. They don't, yeah, they mean them no harm. They're tolerant, you know. Right. And Bullock is like, absolutely not. Yeah. You know, your actions say different.

Right. You know, you capture and kill one another. and you created biological weapons to use against us. And you were allies of the Borg. He's got a point. Yeah. He does. But this is how all conflicts begin, though.

Yeah. Janeway says, you know, seven is no longer Borg. Right. In fact, you even have a Borg here. Yeah, that's right. That was a great line. I forgot about that. She's all gussied up that look like a human.

So Boothby still speaks like Boothby, which is great. Yeah. And so even though what. she's saying as an audience we know is true they just from their perspective there's no evidence of it so she ultimately says disarm the warheads yeah what yeah she says someone's got to take their finger off the trigger yeah someone's got to do this first and i'm going to take my finger off the trigger and they think it's a trick and i think boothby says humans you've got a flare for the dramatic yes yes he wants an explanation for why voyager attacked with the board aligned with the board sure and um

She explains everything that they didn't know about the history of 8472. They didn't know that the Borg started the battle, the war. They didn't know any of this. But then she also says to them, you know, take a look at what you're doing now with your plans to invade Earth. You're the ones that are invading and trying to destroy a species. You're the invaders. But then 8472 says, and Archer is the one that says it, she says, no, this is a surveillance mission. We're actually going to infiltrate so that we can keep an eye on you guys.

to make sure you don't invade us. So we are not trying to invade you. So now everyone's got the wrong, you know, agenda. Everyone thinks the other person has a certain agenda, and it's not correct. But Boothby or A472 disguised as Boothi ultimately says, okay, we're going to trust but verify. So we want to see your nanoprobe technology. Yeah. We're going to start by sharing information.

Right. We go to a space shot and we hear the captain's log saying we have set a truce now. And we ask for something too, right? asked for, oh, oh, their technology of how they were modifying their genetic, you know, makeup to become human-like or, yeah, Vulcan-like, whatever, to look like alpha-quadron species. So the answer here to this, you know, this standoff kind of starting to simmer down and cool down is Janeway takes the first move of disarming the warheads, but then they start sharing technology both ways. Yeah. And we realize the heats off. And we kind of, we kind of

got to a hallway shot. Seven and Janeway were walking. And Janeway confirms, yes, we're exchanging technology. It's a first step towards peace. And Seven admits that she was wrong, which is such a rare moment for this character. Yeah. But a great moment, though. It's a good moment. It's an important moment for this character. Very important that she admits she was wrong. Yeah. And Janeway talks about the idea of faith, the human idea that you just have to have faith in doing the right thing. Yeah. And I thought that was great. It was. And now we're back down on the Starfleet grounds and Bullock is talking to Tuvok and Neelix. Yeah.

We finally see Neelix in this episode. And he calls him Nellix. Ambassador Nellix. Ambassador Nelix politely, you know, corrects him with as pronounced Nelix. Neelix. And as Nelix goes off on his learning expedition, he goes with the Vulcan, he goes with the Vulcan. He says, I look forward to hearing your perspective on Vulcans. Vulcans, yeah.

And you've got this shot back on Tuvok. with like a dry look of, oh, brother. I love it. Then we have a shot of Janeway in Boothby, right? They're talking. And they talk about, you know, Boothby says, listen, I'm going to tell my superiors about this, but some of them, they're going to hit the roof.

They're not going to really, they're going to be shocked that this is what transpired. And they may not agree with it, but I'll try my best to convince them that the Federation is not a threat. And then he produces a genetically synthesized rose. Oh, yes. By the way, red rose that he produces, it looked a little withered.

I got to say, like, I wish they had had a fresh. If he's going to produce this, this symbolic, beautiful, perfect red rose. This red rose better. It looked like it was kind of, like the pedals were just about to fall off. It's the one when you go to the florist, you don't pick that one out of the vaults. You're like, I'll take the other one, the one next to it. The fresher one? Yes.

Agreed, agreed. And then we go to Chocote and Archer. And they talk about, you know, if this was a different time and a different place, maybe I would ask you on a second date and blah, blah, blah, smoochie, smoochee. Oh, my goodness. Ew, they kissed. Ew. It's 8472, Jacote.

You're not undercover anymore. What the heck? Yeah, this is a curveball for the whole J.C. relationship. What is happening, my man. Thinking. Oh, yeah. Is that we end like that? The ending shot should have been after the kiss, you see Janeway holding the rose and she's staring at them and she drops it.

Like she's just like so upset with Chikote kissing her. Robbie, what's your rating of this episode? One to ten. One to ten. I may get a little flak here, but this was not my favorite episode. All right. I did not love. I mean, you know, the themes and the big ideas in the episode are strong and good, but I just, I don't know.

I'm going to give this a 4.5. Yeah. Oh, I can just, oh, I can see all the emails coming in right now. That's okay. You're being honest. I'm going to give this a 4.5. It's not my favorite. Okay.

I didn't feel like the jeopardy was clear enough or really dramatic enough. I didn't feel like our whole cast was involved very well. You know, the fact that Nelix comes in the last scene or two of the episode. The doctor was not very well used. I don't know. It's not my favorite. What if it became a two-parter? Do you think that could have helped it?

It could have helped it. You know, usually for me, a really strong Voyager episode is when we've got a great A story that has real emotional stakes and real dramatic stakes, you know, action in some way. And then a strong B and a strong C story where maybe are, you know, some supporting. characters get to play along the same themes in a parallel story that comes together and overlap somehow. There was no real overlap. There was no B or C story here.

It was only A story and it was mostly not the crew. It was Chakote or Janeway, maybe, or these guest stars that, I don't know. It just was not a successful episode for me. Okay. What about you? Scale 1 to 10. 8.5. What?

Oh, wow. We are way off. They were way off. We're so up. Because I do think they included everybody. As far as I know, the doctor, seven, everyone's in this episode. It may not, in varying degrees. But more importantly, I give a high rating to this episode because I feel that the guest stars did a great job.

I think that Kate Vernon did a stand-up job. I think Boothby did a great job. I think Zach All of them, all of them, every single person that guest started this episode did a better-than-average job. So I like that. I like the whole storyline. I like Nick Sagan's script. I liked how the fact that this is 8472's fear-based reaction to what happened earlier that they had to create. And this is not the only habitat.

This is one of 13 or 14 of these that were created. So 8472 took this very seriously. And to think that they've been the last, you know, however many months or years, they've been doing this, they're serious about this. So this whole storyline to me was like, ooh, this is really interesting. I loved it. So this is one of the better episodes for me. What is your theme? What is your lesson that you learned from this one, though?

My theme is, I wrote down, somebody's got to stop being paranoid first. To me, the lesson is what Janeway decided to do when she took her finger off the trigger and disarmed the weapons. Someone's got to take the first move towards connection. So that would be my theme. What about you? That's one of my themes that, yes, when you're at an impasse with another person or a group of people and you cannot move forward, don't be ashamed of making the first move of peace towards peace, towards reconciliation. And my other theme or my other lesson is just beware of fear-based decisions, that fear can get the best. of you. And this is what happened with both parties. We were afraid of 8472. 8472 was afraid of

Starfleet. Yeah. And then they felt Starfleet was more of a threat than the Borg. It's like, what? Because in our picture, in our brains, the Borg are the ultimate threat, you know. And then they felt that the Borg are nothing to us. But Starfleet is dangerous. So that's my other, that's my other lesson. Nice. All right. Well, great. Well, thanks everybody for listening to our recap, review, and memories of In the Flesh. In the Flesh. Join us next week when Brab me and I will discuss and recap the episode Once Upon a Time. Thanks, everybody.

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