The Delta Flyers - In The Hands Of The Prophets

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode is, In The Hands Of The Prophets, hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry FarrellIn The Hands Of The Prophets: Orthodox Bajorans object to secular teachings about the wormhole in the station's school, causing tensions between fundamentalists and the Starfleet crew.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAdditionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Sam Mikelic, & Thomas IrvinOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Tom Paynter, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Steven Lugo, Penny Liu, Lisa Hill, & Stacy DavisAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Meredith Hudes-Lowder, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, John Richardson, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Clark Ochikubo, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Ryan Tomei-Sigurðarson, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Mars DeVore, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Preston Meyer, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Constance, Loretta Reyes, Timothy McMichens, & Francesca GaribaldiThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers as we journey through the wormhole. Your hosts along this journey are my fellow esteemed Star Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Armin Schumerman, Robbie McNeil. I almost didn't say your name right, Robbie. Robbie McNeil and myself, Garrett Wong. I know. We just met, so you don't know me well. I know. I know. That's exactly what I was going to say. And of course, today we have the lovely Terrell for Terry, not Tori Farrell.

I'm messing everyone's name of it. So today we have the lovely Terry Farrell joining us, just like I just met her yesterday, too. So to receive the complete version of this podcast, please go to patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a Patreon for your amazing bonus material. Welcome, Terry. And hello, Robbie. Well, hello. Yes, nice to meet you, Richard. Oh, Robbie, I hear a little tinge of a cold still, you know, with you.

I have had a cold for 10 days or more now. I can't believe it. That's not normal, though, right, for a cold to last that long? No, and here's the weird thing. I, I, when COVID hit in 2020, March 30 to 20, I probably had been sick before that season, but I have not gotten sick except for COVID in September finally this last year. I haven't had a cold. I haven't had anything.

I've been absolutely healthy. And then I got COVID in September, and now this cold. And maybe because I haven't had a cold in five years. That's why it's so bad. I don't know. And then you gave me to see. How did we do that? How did we do that?

I think I got it from the last woodworking class I took because I didn't have a mask on. Yeah. And I'm trying to, I mean, I guess I could have gotten it from the grocery store. Yeah. I mean, more than likely, it's with people. you're with for a few hours. Yeah, closed, smaller place. That makes sense.

I can't believe we both have cold. When the pandemic, when they opened back up to when flight started happening again, right, after the pandemic, after the shutdown. You were the first person on a plane. I was literally the first person on the plane. And this guy gets on. He gets on and he has a full hazmat suit on, everything. And he's completely, it's yellow.

It's like the movies. He's got the full suit. And I go, please don't let that guy sit next to me. please and it yes he sat right next to me of course the hazmat suit guy of course it was uh it was shocking to see that so maybe you need a hazmat suit when you do woodworking i would do it i am yeah i canceled my class for tomorrow i was just like no marty's and tenant it has to go on without me oh yes i love that you do woodworking class that is amazing yeah i was looking for ways to

create community here and the only way i think of every time i've moved made a major move to a city i don't know anybody yet i start taking classes because that's the fastest way to meet people yes and you start feeling good even if you don't make a friend from the class you're doing something you take something out of it yeah yeah yeah they're really nice people we should just surprise terry one day you and i should just make a trip and not tell just show up and oh my god i would love that on your doorstep. She's like, what? Let's just start working class.

Oh, show up. Yeah, we just start working class. And her teacher goes, we have two new students today, Robert McNeil, and you turn around, you see us in the back. You're like, what? They're here. Okay. Well, my next class is making a bowl and a lathe.

Oh, wow. A bowl and a lathe. First I had to get my lathe making badge, which was fun. Guys, what movie is that from? This is like you're in the scouts. It's like you're getting a badge. That's what they call them. You can't work in the, you can't work in the facility by yourself until you get these badges.

Badges. I love it. You know, that way they don't have random fingers flying. Yeah, it's, there's stuff. It's dangerous, woodworking. It's dangerous for sure. What popular sci-fi movie? It's a little scary. It heightens my anxiety when I'm there. I'm like hyper-focused.

Power tools. Power tools are scary. Yeah. What sci-fi feature film popular sci-fi feature film uses the term lave in it in the dialogue for one of the characters. No. I don't know. It's not Star Wars? Star Trek? Oh, no.

Come on, guys. Come on. You're the sci-finder. I know. There's a lot. Galaxy Quest. Oh, I love that movie. Okay. What do you recall?

No, I don't remember. No. Not at all. I just remember thinking, oh, my gosh, when I had a dream once I got deep space, that that happened to me. They sucked me up and I was like, I know, no. I remember. No, I'm not real. I'm an actor.

I'm an actor. I'm not really a trill. Oh, my God. Go take my teeth. The character of guy, the guy that's not even supposed to be part of the crew. Okay, played by Sam Rockwell. You guys remember that character? Yes, yes.

He says, he says, maybe we can construct some type of rudimentary lathe. He says that in the movie. And it was, oh, it was classic. So pointing out and amplifying that you are a sci-fi nerd, that you not only know the actor that's saying it, but you know the lines he has. Oh, my gosh. You're adorable.

Oh, thank you. It's a talent I do not have. What you do not know, Terry, I had to turn down a feature film working with Sam Rockwell to take Voyager, actually. It was a film with Sam Rockwell, Ben Affleck, French Stewart from Third Rock from the Sun. Love him too. Yes. And it was really an amazing opportunity.

What was the movie? It was a movie where it was called Glory Days. And it was a movie with basically five guys living in a house in Santa Cruz in California that were college buddies. and they had a band, a punk band and my character was the lead singer of the punk band and I had to sing a song in the and for an Asian American character nothing cool like that was cast in the 90s

so that was amazing to get his role and when I had to turn it down because we had to find another Janeway because Jean-Ville Bourgeois quit a part of my soul died because you could have done the movie yes and the guy that replaced me he's a friend of mine but he did not do it the justice that he did all to the song

that's what got me cast because I sang the song instead of lip syncing it at the callback audition. That's why you've stalked Sam Rockwell ever since and you know his dialogue. I miss said the name of this episode, Robbie, in the last one. I said, stay tuned next time and we review and discuss in the hands of profits because that is how it's listed incorrectly on Netflix. It's actually in the hands of the profits. So that was Harmon's correction.

and I felt like a CAD when I didn't realize I said it correctly. So I relied on the profits. You're totally fine. Okay. Now you have you have corrected yourself. Have I redeemed myself? You redeemed yourself.

Absolutely. I want to talk about Patreon. And, you know, Patreon now has a welcome survey when people join and they can tell us why they're joining. And so we get to know them a little bit. Wow. And there was a comment that was super sweet. I thought that I could just read a little paraphrase a little bit.

of this comment for people to hear why people are joining Patreon and subscribing to our show. So this is from Dawn and Aaron. They joined about a month ago at the major level. And they basically said we just stumbled upon this podcast recently and are

really enjoying it immensely. Aaron, who's a human female age 10, is a huge... Good to know she's not a cling on. Not, no. She's a huge what, Robbie? She's a huge Voyager fan. And she penned lyrics to the theme song, and she's paying for the constable tier out of her chore money.

Oh, my goodness. Is constable tier, yes, constable tier. The constable tier out of her chore money and then in parentheses, I kick in the rest. So the mom kicks in the rest because the daughter can't pay for the whole tier. This is very sweet. Very sweet. And Logan, who is a male age 13, is only listening for DS9 news. So they say keep it up.

So thank you. And I wonder what he is. Is he a human? He's a human. Okay. He didn't say human. Okay. Well, he did not.

He could be bollian. Yes. Logan, welcome. We know he's, we know he's not a trill. He's not. And what's your name, Aaron? Aaron. Aaron and Logan.

Welcome. Welcome. And Aaron is spelled A-E-R-Y-N. Look at that spelling. Cool spelling. Anyway, that's just, I love that we get the, the survey, the welcome survey. So anybody out there who's not a patron member, check it out. It's a great community. We'd love to know why you're choosing to support this podcast.

Yeah. And thank you for supporting it because this experience of community is so much fun. Yes, it is. And bring so much joy for me anyway. I really love it. And these type of emails from you guys, when we hear how supportive you are and how it's really touched you is it's moving to us as well we're very proud of what we do for sure yes um birthday time robbie mcneal birthdays yes please all right you want to start the first one and i'll yeah we have a we have our first birthday is a belated birthday to stephanie abes april 20th happy birthday stephanie happy birthday stephanie happy birthday stephanie i was going to pronounce that aves but you're probably right it's a

happy birthday stephanie happy yes okay also happy birthday to our good friend, Shambavi, caught him? Or is it caught him? Hmm. I know. I don't know. These names, the last names. Well, we've known Shambi.

We've known Shambi forever. Shambi has been a loyal admiral level supporter since pretty much day one, I think. Yes. And she's our hookup to Adobe for those of you out there. She works for Adobe. She works for Adobe. So you need me Adobe help. Join the Patreon.

You can meet Shambi. Chambi can answer all your questions about that. Hook you up. April 26th, April 426, happy birthday, Chamovie. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. I want to see how you pronounce this last name because I know how to pronounce this, because I am a college friend with this last name.

Yes, this is a birthday, a shout-up for Mars-Divore, April 27th. Mars-de-vore, happy birthday. How would you not pronounce that correctly? Happy birthday, Mars. I have a nephew. I have a nephew named Mars, only his is a C instead of an S. Oh, that's cool. That's an unusual name, but it's a great name.

It is, yeah. April 27th, happy birthday, Mars. Cool planet to be named after. We've got some new profits. Oh, my goodness. Yes, we did expand our profit level. Yes, we did. We've been growing, and a lot of you have been demanding it, so we have expanded.

We now have some new profits. We really want to welcome and thank them. Chris Knapp, thank you and welcome Chris Knapp. Mary Jack Greer. I'm sure your mom had something to do with this. Thank you. Mary Jack. She brought you in as a prophet.

Tell her, thank you. We love your mom. Okay. We also want to thank Holly Schmidt, our good friend, Holly Schmidt, and Ian Ramsey, who does the best cover, or not even cover, they're sort of made up. He does these original, amazing original Star Trek themed songs. He takes songs that we know of in our musical knowledge. Everyone knows them.

And then he puts in Trek lyrics, and he does such a good job at that. So welcome to Ian Ramsey. And Holly, welcome to you, I just want to say Holly's awesome. We've known her a long time as well. So great to have you in the profit level. Hey, we also want to welcome as a new prophet, Rob Traverse. Rob, welcome.

So good to have you at you at the profit level. And Steph Lee, you are now a profit. So welcome, Steph. Yes, we love Rob and Steph. And finally, last but not least, we want to welcome Sam, Sam McAulik. Thank you for joining the profits level. There you go. Welcome, welcome.

Shall we start with your limerick then? Your limerick synopsis? My limerick, here we go. Okay, I did make, I'm pretty proud of this limerick. I'm really excited to share it with you. Woo! I'm feeling pressure on mine. Here we go.

Go. Vedic win arrives, but she's not on the level. With Keiko's science of the wormhole, she really doesn't revel. Neil is kind of a psychopath Thank God Miles can do the math Kira admits Cisco's not really the devil Oh, look at that rhyming vol over and over again

Amazing Yes, I love it Thank you. Terry, let's hear yours I like how you included everybody I did not Okay I try I tried to get a lot of them But I don't always like I didn't get Dax in there really in this

Oh No I wasn't part of the No That would be ridiculous. Or my man, Bashir. I didn't get my man Bashir. That's all right. That's all right.

It's totally fine. What do you have? I'm going to hear yours. My poem. Yes. Wynne has one-way vision. She promotes absolute division. Diversity inclusion for all is Cisco's way and he stands tall.

With Vedic virile at his side, peace and acceptance open wide. Oh, that's awesome. Thank you. I still say yours is the. closest to true poetry of all of ours it really is okay i just it takes a long time to write though it does doesn't it yeah it really does more than anything else just considering it and sort of simmering yeah yeah all right haiku time here goes uh jumja looks like meat religion versus science neela was the mall terry's reaction jimja

The jokes and popsicles, they look like, they look like raw meat. I'm sorry. You ruined it for me. Like also in the description, Rob says, that's what you said. When I read that, I was like, oh, at first I was like, yeah, I want to eat that. But now that it looks like meat and not. Not anymore. Oh.

Guest stars, Rosalind Chow, the wonderful Rosalyn Chow, Robin Christopher as Nila, Philip Anglum as Vedic, Bribe. and special guest star Louise Fletcher Asvedic win. How on earth did DS9 get an Academy Award winning Louise Fletcher to agree to play this role? Do you know anything behind that? I'm just curious. How much fun would it be to play her? Are you kidding? Totally. But again, it's...

But I think, no, I think that sci-fi or Star Trek in particular, and look, Goldberg asked, and I know her, and I can't say her name. Her name. She wanted to be, Wuppie Goldberg, wanted to be part of it, right? She asked. Yes. But think about how many awards she's won. Yes. But I'm wondering, is Louise Fletcher a Star Trek fan who asked to be part D-S-9? Maybe. I do not know the backstory to that, but I also as an older actress, I would think it was even harder than for actresses to find fun and accessible. exciting roles to play, and I think it wouldn't matter what show it was on as long as it's

an A-level show, which our show was. Production was amazing. So this part comes to you, and it's like, it's juicy. There's so much for her to do with it. I don't know how she would say no to it. It's so perfect. Yeah. So I think that's what happens.

And I think there's a big respect for the actors that come on as guest stars that are, you know, have big histories of you know have a great big portfolio of what i want to say big catalog of work that they've done yeah they're you know yeah she's amazing can i say one thing about robin christopher who plays nila let's talk about robin christopher we've seen her in a number of episodes at this point right no this is a recast the original nila was a brunette they cast robin christopher to recast nila and this is a redhead and it made me a little upset because it kind of it kind of felt like this was sort of, you know, anti-redhead casting in a way.

I don't know. It just made me making her, you know what I'm saying? I would have wanted her to stay Burnett and keep it that way. And then now they switch it to redhead and then now she's the villain. What has to do with her hair?

The hair color because people make fun of redheads a lot. And I was just, they're soul-stealers. That's what they say. Kira has red hair. People make fun of redheads a lot. They do. They get a lot of crap.

Ginger's, you know, soul-stealers. special. They're very special. They're rare and special. We're on the same team, Terry. I'm arguing for the ranks of redheads. I remember how gorgeous she was. Was she on a soap? Yes. This is what I was getting at. Okay, good. Tell us. I'm watching this episode, and I know we've seen this this character a number of times. I didn't catch that it was recast. I didn't catch that right Yes. So I'm watching. I didn't catch it at all. I was like, God, this actress, like, she seems different and really

familiar to me all of a sudden. Why haven't I thought that before? And so I went and stopped and looked it up. Robin Christopher was on all my children in the 80s. I was on all my children. I was on the show when she was cast and I knew her very well. But because of the switch and everything, I was like, I just didn't go there right away. It took me a minute. And so, yeah, I was amazed. And then I felt like an idiot because I was like, why didn't I know it was Robin Christopher all this time? But thank you for explaining they recast her. Yeah. Oh, and if I just thought it was a new character. I didn't know it was an ongoing character. So that's bad though that they recast because I, it didn't track for me. Yeah. I mean, if you, just to give a little backstory to this whole conversation,

Robbie, if you recall when Nila appeared before, and if I'm correct, I think there was only one other episode that she's referred to. And this is the second time. I think there's more. This is more. I don't think so, dude. But the bottom line is, yes. When Nila was on, we talked about her when she first showed up, and we said, we like this character. And Armin was reviewing it with us. He goes, but she doesn't stay. And so he was telling us that she got fired, right?

It didn't work out. And then we were like, oh, well, what happened? He was like, well, you guys will have to watch. So he didn't give us, he wasn't that forthcoming about what happened. But the original Nila, who was great as well as this Nila, was gone. okay and then she was brunette and she no the first one was brunette that's why i was so confused and he was so confused about that that sounds like a silly reason to fire somebody you there has to be some other reason well here's maybe she wasn't available maybe she wasn't available

there's a better reason that she couldn't do it and they had to recast her but let's now jump back to louise fletcher robbie i had to do so i got one more thing to say about robert go okay my last thing about Robin Christopher. So she's on my children. I remember when she first came on, they created this character, Sky Chandler. Oh, yeah. Adam Chandler's daughter or something like that. Robin Christopher is the only daytime actress to have ever played the same character on three different daytime soap. She was started on my children, then went to general hospital and then one life to live all the same character. Wow. Over like 15 years or something. That's crazy.

Isn't that crazy? Yes. She played the same character. She's really good. That good is that character. She's gorgeous. She's so pretty. She's beautiful.

She really is. Anyway, that's, I couldn't believe Robert. I was like, I know this person, but the Bajoran thing, the Bajoran thing and the other episode got me all confused. Anyway, that's all I have to say about Robin Christopher. Done. Okay. All right.

Let's move on to Louise Fletcher. I was so curious about reading about her just going down that rabbit hole. Robbie, she's from the South. She was born in Birmingham, Alabama, second of four kids. Dad was a reverent. His dad and the mother, listen to this craziness.

The father and mother were both deaf, born deaf, and all four kids have hearing. Okay, so her father opened up all these different churches for the deaf, basically. He was kind of a groundbreakinger in a way. and she went to college at University of North Carolina, which is where you lived in North Carolina, Chapel Hill.

She got her bachelor's degree in drama from there. So she's a southerner. Now here's something that Terry can understand. Now, here's a quote from Louise Flick. But you can't, Robbie. I can't. Well, probably not. But she did a lot of, she appeared in several TV series, several Westerns,

several Westerns, and there's a reason behind that. She says, I was five feet 10 inches tall. And no television producer thought a tall woman could be sexually attractive to anybody. I was able to get jobs on Westerns because the actors were even taller than I was. Louise Fletcher quoted in November of 1975. So I thought, wow, look at that. Look at the discrimination against tall female actors back in the day. Well, it was hard when I was auditioning to because when you came in to read with somebody

and it's an actor who says he's six feet tall, but when you're six feet tall and you walk in and they're yeah yeah it doesn't work out no you're out of the running at that point you're completely out no one wants you to be no one's going to put that guy on an apple box for the entire film or the or the TV show

or the episode so you're out no but you can name several tall actresses that were very successful so it's not an absolute truth but it is kind of a no I think it's gotten better over the years for sure for sure people have gotten taller too yeah there are still A lot of really short actors, so the actresses are just aren't going to be paired up with them.

But wouldn't you agree with this guy? This is triggering me a little bit about the Sarah Silverman comment on. Oh, no. What? Tell me. I don't know it. Oh, no, Robbie. Was it Jimmy Kimmel?

Was that what it was on? Yes. I'll tell the story real quick. Sarah Silverman's on Jimmy Kimmel. And Jimmy Kimmel pulls out a photograph of her, Sarah, when she was on Voyager as a guest star, two-part guest star. and just so you know the comedian was on your show? It was the very first job she ever did, I think, was our show.

How cool. The two episode arc and in the story, my character and her character were sort of love interests. And for those two episodes. Anyway, Jimmy Kimmel holds up this photo. Now, I think she didn't remember anything about it and she had to make up a story that was entertaining. But she tells this story.

She says, oh, yeah, I remember that. So it was a photo of me and her in the foreground. And then Tim Ross, who played Tuvok behind us in the background. And she says, he goes, well, tell me about this picture. You know, tell me what this is, your first job in Hollywood. And she looks at it and she kind of laughs. And she goes, well, she points to Tim Russ to Tuvok. She says, I kiss that guy when we weren't working.

and I had to kiss that guy when we were working, it pointed to me. And then she said, she goes, and then I remember that they made, he demanded an apple box, meaning me, because God forbid that the woman should be taller than the leading man. She's taller than you? No, no, she's not. She made up this whole story. Okay, I texted Tim. I said, did you kiss Sarah Silverman?

He goes, no. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I would remember that with her. So she made that. up and then I'm six foot one and I looked up Sarah Silverman she's like five foot seven or something why would they put me why would I demand an Applebox to be even taller I have known than six inches taller that's ridiculous I don't blame me that would

trigger me too because it's very triggering yeah it's weird when yeah I'm just like what is your agenda with this story what her agenda is to be funny and yeah I guess doesn't know you guys and you're not in her life. And I used to like her. She used you to make a joke. Okay. I always said nice things about her. I always liked her.

And then after I saw that, I take it all back. No, no. Do not egg him on, Terry Farrell. Do not egg him on. No. I'm team Robbie. Okay.

Stop, both of you. Robbie, you have spent the better part of three decades calming me down. Okay. Whenever I've been upset or offended. We will continue to calm you down. I know that. But I'm here to calm you down right now. As a stand-up comic, listen to me.

I'm having some empathy with him. Everything is made up by the stand-up comics. That's what they do, dude. Yeah, but some things are not okay. But I don't think people thought she was making that up. She told it like it was a real story. Yeah, I believe you, Robbie. Now people think that I'm a jerk.

You're a really short dude. No, I don't care if I was short. They think that I'm a jerk because it was couched in. It was couched in. God forbid the leading man. She should be sure that I demanded an apple box. Right. Well, so that's, yeah, that would bother me because it's not that funny.

It's not funny. And you're a nice person. If you were really, if you were a jackass or a narcissist, that would be an appropriate dig, but you're not. You're like the furthest thing from it. I would never do that. I just don't want you to get hung up on it. And she's five, seven.

No, we're just talking about it. She is my college friend's first cousin, Terry. She's my college friend's first cousin. So very, you know, they grew up together. So I asked him, will you please ask her to come on our shows? Because I wanted her to be a guest on when we reviewed the episodes that she was in. God forbid. She should be on a Star Trek podcast.

She turned us down. She turned us down. That's okay. It's fine. I just wanted to talking about shorter actresses, taller actresses, why do they get hired or not hired? Yes, there's absolutely a bias against these sort of. stereotypes. Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, and they're not right. But I don't want anybody there to think that... That's who you are. Can you see who that is? That's Louis Fletcher and James Garner, actually. Louise Fletcher and James. Once again, we're having a little ADHD segue. Yeah, we are.

We're segueing. Okay. Let's get back to what we get. Let's get back to it. We're just rambling and going down rabbit holes. My goodness. Written by Robert Hewitt Wolfe, who did a great job on the script. Great job.

What a wonderful, wonderful job on writing that he did. And he's a great guy. He's a great writer and he's a great guy. I don't remember meeting him, which is horrible. I'm sure I did. He's tall and... Paul Lanky? Yeah, he is.

He's tall. Does he stand on Applebox? Yes, all the time. All the time. He demands them, I'm sure. Joke. That was a joke. That was a joke.

Please don't take offense, Robert Hewitt Wolf. We love you, Robert Hewitt Wolf. Directed by David Livingston, just pronouncing it different, just for, you know, for fun. But David, you know, spent a lot of time doing take after take after take. But I'm sure we got the best takes out of everybody. He did a great job. He always does a good job with Star Trek. It's his jam.

I like the scenes where you see me in between the other two actors in the background. My information is for them, but it didn't merit, you know, pushing in on a close-up. And I think when we get there, I'm going to stop now. We'll wait to me. Save it. All right, this episode. So me. I'm sorry.

This episode aired originally aired on June 21st, 1993. Wow. Yes, right after my daughter's third birthday, that's when this episode aired. We start out on the- What's? June 11th. Oh, wow. Yeah, okay.

She was just turned three. Yeah. We started out on the promenade and we're at this, what, this lollipop. Cellar. Well, let's talk about this for a quick second. This is a very cute scene, but we have seen Aaron Eisenberg eat these. So he'll go grab one and he'll eat his character. Nog will eat these.

But we never knew what they were. Now we know what they are. They're from the sap of the Jumja tree. And there's a lot of vitamin C in there, whatever. And it's a very cute scene. I like it. I don't want to say Jumja. Jumja.

Jumja. It looks like a giant tongue to me, though. It does, I told you. Doesn't it? You know what? I was trying to think bomb pop. Yeah, but not back. But you're kind of ruining it for me.

Well, Miles wants, he loves these things. He's talking about him. Keiko does not want any of these. No. She asked where he learned about it. And he said he learned from Nila, his new assistant. And Haco starts to get some feelings when he brings up Nila. and she teases him to be careful with who he shares his june jaw with,

which I thought was cute at the end, cute. Yeah, I think she handled it well. Yeah. So we're in the classroom. Keiko is teaching her students about the newly discovered wormhole. Now, Vedic, when Louise Fletcher shows up and asks why she doesn't teach that the prophets are the reason why the wormhole is uniquely stable. When Keiko's teaching, she's talking about this wormhole is unique because it is the only

stable wormhole in the galaxy that they know of. And so she's talking about it from a very science classroom point of view. And then when, yeah, when Wynn walks in, it, you know, Wyn's like, no, the prophets created it. It's creationism. Yes, it's creationism. So it's a very different, they're already setting up science versus creation. Science versus religion.

Here we go. She asked Keko if she believes that the celestial temple of the prophets exists within the passage of the wormhole. And Kako says, well, I will receive. expect that the Bajoran people believe that it does. And Wynne responds with, but that's not what you teach Keko to Wynn. And I'm just going to read this because it's such good writing. No, I don't teach Bajoran spiritual beliefs. That's your job. Mine is to open the children's minds to history, to literature, to mathematics, to science. Wynne says to Kako, you are opening

the children's minds to blasphemy. And I cannot permit it to continue. I just love these lines. It's just everything is set out. It's a good script. It's such a good script. Later on, the speech that Cisco has is phenomenal. There's a couple of great speeches. Yeah, there is a couple of great ways. You're right. We go to the security office next.

O'Brien is checking on Nila's progress on these monitor repairs, I guess, in Oda's office. She's working inside a panel off to the side. And she says, yeah, I fixed it. Right. Yeah, that was a cool angle. Very cool. Classic David Livingston inside the thing. Yeah.

And it's a cool part of the app. Yes, it is. It is. Where we don't go there often, the pit. Oh, interesting. Wait, you call it the pit because the actor's named it the pit or it's called the pit on the show? No, because you crawl down. Oh, the ladder thing in Ops.

Yeah, opposite of Francisco's office, there's a pit at the head of Ops where you go down and that's where O'Brien does a lot of his work. Okay. Not always. Sometimes he's in that upper. I noticed that Miles was. going down in ops he was going down into those new places we hadn't seen which i thought was cool yeah i think in this one when nila's when nila's working in that panel they're in the otto's office i think right oh they were yeah they were they were in otos office because that's what he says later on he

says when he makes the connection later on he's oh okay he calls odo and yeah but but that pit i thought was very cool and i so we're not in the pit for this scene we've got to be in odos office Once again, I just did a little time traveling. It's fine. We're in the security office, yes. We're in the Soto's office. But I love that shot in the refrigerator shot inside the panel. When Miles asks about it and then they turn back and the monitors come on right behind them.

Yeah. Oh, okay. That was cool. I thought that was cool. Yeah, because he's impressed with her work. He likes her work. And he also discovers there's a missing tool, which is very odd for Miles since he never misplaces them. So where, who, why?

Yeah, nobody, you're not supposed to borrow people's tools. I'm with Miles on this. Don't touch your tool, somebody's tools, unless you ask permission. Exactly. It's like they're sacred. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane.

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and Cisco are discussing the incident. Kira arrives and gives us a bit of background on Vedic Wynne, who comes from an orthodox order. She has the support to become the next Kai from some people, and in fact, even our dear Kira supports her. And again, I love the writing on this episode. There's a really awesome interchange here about philosophy. They all talk about philosophies, all three of the actors,

just bouncing it back and forth, and I think it was very well written. And Cisco asked Kira, how are we going to deal with this situation? Do you have any suggestions? And she says, I'm not sure if we can. And that kind of ends that scene. Yeah, it's a classic conflict of, you know, secularism, school and religion, creationism versus science. Yeah.

And Cisco says he is not going to divide the station. No. Yeah. And Kara can't think of another way to fix it. But I love that he, I love that he is a. Yes. Yeah. Right.

He is separation of church and state, bringing people together without segregation so that we become a community. These are really important things. Yeah. He says my philosophy is that we are accepting of all philosophies on the station. So he's trying to be the, you know, the, what do you call it, the peace maker? Yeah. The captain at the command.

Do you think Kira was defending very quickly? I felt like it surprised me that Kira took this point of view so quickly. Really? It surprised me a little bit, no? Well, remember, too, we're still in the first season. Yeah. And she is adjusting to Starfleet still. Yeah.

Okay. And this is her whole world is her Bajorn religion and trying to hold on to this idealized version of it. And so I think there's no surprise. And I think also it's important for her to start out this way so that she has her character art. We need one person who has this misguided point of view to be awakened by what happens on the station. And that is who Kira is in this episode. Yeah, for sure.

You got to remember in that other episode where we see Kaya Paca, Kira is practically head over heels of the fact that she's coming to visit the station. Yeah, that's true. She's like, oh, my God, it's devastated. She was devastated. Oh, my God. When Kyle Paca had to stay on that planet with those boring people. Oh, and that she was shamed in front of Opa about how she was treating everyone. Yes.

So this is, there's every reason for- Yeah. We go in the Bajoran Shrine, next. Have we been in that set before? Is this the first time? I don't think so. It's super pretty. We've seen the exterior, the entrance of it.

We've seen people come out from it. I don't think we've gone in there, though. Was he in there in the beginning when the orb was first? That was when he went down on the planet. He went on the planet. Oh, that's true. He went down to Bejor itself, and he. But it wasn't on our, but we didn't see the same.

No, no. I love the set. It's very beautiful. Did you keep it? And I love her costume. Yeah, I did too. Did you keep this set? It's in my backyard.

I want that set in my backyard. It's beautiful. It was so peaceful. And her hat, by the way, it looks like the Sydney Opera. house. Doesn't it? I love that. That's in my reaction video. Bob Blackman. He's amazing. It was a very Sydney opera houseish. Yes. Well, she is, Cisco walks into the shrine to find Vedic Win who seems to be having some prayers or something. Vedic doesn't even turn. She knows that it's Cisco. She is honored to meet the emissary. And Cisco's not comfortable with that. Cisco's like,

I'd rather you not say that. I'd rather you just say, commander. or Benjamin even you don't even have to yeah and she's like no no and she feels his paw and knows that he's the reluctant I wanted to slap her hand away when she reached for his ear I was like oh get away from him yeah yeah that seems like you would ask permission to do first you don't I don't go grabbing people's ears without ass people's paws no not their tools or their paws no don't don't touch your tools and leave my paw alone uh Vedic win says that the prophets have spoken to her through the orbs and she understands that she must defend the Bajoran faith. Keiko has dishonored the celestial temple and that if she does not recant what she's been saying,

Vedic Wyn cannot be held responsible for the consequences. So it's dire, dire circumstances here. And again, wonderful writing. I'm going to keep saying that. Yeah, super creepy. She's super creepy. She is. But then again, what have we seen her in?

flew over the cuckoo's nest as nurse ratchet which is again a super iconic character which everyone is afraid of her there too and that's what you won the Oscar for right oh my gosh he was good at that yeah yeah you need to have a villain that is fun to hate yeah Rebecca loves this actor this character she loves to hate her Rebecca said when we were watching this episode she's like oh my god this is the best villain ever created anything she's so good which i can't wait to see how it evolved. Yeah, there's more episodes with her, right? Terry, there's more episodes with her coming back. No, this is it. Enjoy it. She's gone. Oh, no. I don't believe you. No, of course she comes back. No one killed her yet. We go to ops next. Miles and Nila come in looking for his lost tool

up in ops. So they access, you know, they access the computer. And they more importantly, too, So that access key, that tool is, is like, overrides everything. Oh, yeah. It's like a master key kind of thing. Yes. It's very bad. It's gone. Yeah.

Hey, here's Terry's first lines of the episode, right? Yeah. In this scene. Yes. Chief, have you seen Ensign Aquino recently? That one, yeah. Now we know someone's missing. He's missing.

He's not even on the station, I think, Dax is. And he didn't even log out of his, of his duty. Very mysterious. So she goes to talk to Odo to try. try to find out weird it's we're on a station where the hell would he go yeah and also you can call odo why do you got to walk out of the that's what i was thinking you're going to go talk to odo why did you have to leave just call him call him i mean i've got a cell phone i don't need to go i tried it apparently i would imagine i tried to go talk to him but but uh she goes to talk to odo yes this was filmed in the

90s remember we're not in the 21st century yet So she goes to talk to Odo. Miles asked the computer to find this tool because it's made of tritanium. So he asked the computer to do a kind of tritanium scan and finds some mysterious tritanium in the power conduit. So Miles reroutes the power flow so he can go investigate and he leaves too. Something's deeply amiss because he was a very good worker, always shows up on time. So if he suddenly disappeared, you need to go look for him.

Did you feel like Miles was more concerned about his missing tool than a missing crewman, a human? That did kind of bother me. I was like, he doesn't know Ensignacchino. Ensign Aquino is a lower decker. It's like a red shirt. Yeah. Go talk to Odo.

I don't, I got to find my tool. Go talk to Odo about it. But to me, that would be, isn't that a director issue to remind you about or maybe point out? No, I think it's just right. I bet you, I bet you that. Chief O'Brien has named that tool. He has a name, a first name for that tool that's lost. So he's closer

to the tool than Aquino. No, but I think, though, if I were directing, and it's like, this is a human life we're worried about right now. They can both be important. They can both be important. But obviously, we're looking for the tool. We've already established that and how important that is. So now that we've

brought up and sent Aquino. A quino, yeah. We need to go, wait, okay. Let's go find the person. And this is also the person who is most likely to have borrowed the tool without asking. Yeah. So it's a twofer. And if this person hasn't ever shown any reason for us to be suspicious, which makes sense

because we're bringing him up for the first time. We've never established him. So this is the first time. I would say we need to put a little more concern on the human being and then go back to the tool once we're in the Jeffries tube. All right. I'm with you. I am with you there.

I get it. I get it. I know upon your teeth. I want to know. is getting his teeth pulled. Please tell me more about instant Aquino. Let's go to the power conduit. Let's go to this Jeffrey's tube.

It's a tunnel called a power conduit on DS9, but to me it looks like a Jeffries 2. But it can't be a Jeffries tube because it's, no, because it's on a Cardassian station. Oh, okay. It looks like a Jeffries. We could still name it that, right? But that's where the power runs through.

You're like literally inside the, you're inside a power cable is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So they're inside this power conduit and they find this melted pile of metal that I thought looked like a cow patty. It looked like a cow patty. Yes. Or like a cat vomited or something. It was gross. It was gross. Gray and yeah. Yeah, I thought that's not to be even big enough for the mass of a human being to be. That felt weird too. Like it should have been

bigger. It should have been a bigger pile of goo, right? Yeah. I think so, although not to get to more But like if someone's cremated, the ashes are pretty small. That's pretty small. You're right. You're right. And so it might have been sort of cremated in there. Right. And just bits of his ash are mixed in with the residue of the tritania.

The metal. Correct. The titanium. Yes. Okay. He says of organic material, not just the tritanium. So it's a little confusing. But it's creepy now.

It's like, oh. It's creepy. Yeah, traces of organic matter. Yep. It's got to take it to my mind. man Bashir and off they go. We're in a turbo lift next. Miles tells Keiko that Ensign Aquino made a log entry about some kind of irregular plasma flow in the conduit and he was going to go fix it. And then he just disappeared. Miles is telling Keiko this, that it looks like an accident and that Bashir

confirmed that the remains were human. So this is them coming up supposedly in a turbo lift. I have to say there was a two shot of Kako and Miles and the lights are sort of flashing behind them as if this lift is moving up. But then when they stepped off the lift to go to the promenade, you realize that the camera was never, the shot didn't work for me is my bottom line. Okay.

It felt like if they're on a lift, that camera should have been really close to them because a camera can't be inside the walls of the tube, the turbo, like it was too far away. I can't explain it. It didn't work. It didn't feel intimate enough the way they photographed it. Yeah.

Yeah, the way he photographed it as this sort of one or as if the lift is coming up and then the camera kept moving back with them on the promenade. So it should have been closer to begin with. I think so. Do you think that that was like an economy of time? I don't know. I think it's David Livingston likes to see as much of the set as possible. He likes wide-end lenses.

He likes wide-ass angles. So that's his thing. I just have a rule as a director that you can't put a camera physically in a place where it couldn't physically go in reality. So, like, just because we can pull a wall off of a set, the camera couldn't be inside the wall photographing. You have to photograph it as if the camera is up against the wall. Right. So we're still inside the turbo lift. Right.

We're not viewing it from across the street. That's how this shot felt. It felt like the camera was actually inside the walls of this. and then magically came out on the promenade. It didn't, the sizing didn't work for me because it gave away the gimmick that he did. Anyway, I do feel like, my only criticism of David is okay. I just want to say something about the ensign's name, Aquino.

Yeah. I feel like that could have been the Filipino ensign. I think they did that, yes. And I think they did that on purpose because they didn't want it to appear like a Bajoran name that could be wrapped up in any mystery. So it was like a specifically human sounding last name. Yes, an earth sounding name.

Yeah. It is. But also it might have been more prudent to have that scene have maybe a little more about his death. Yes. I agree. I mean, if you couldn't put it in the scene before, maybe in this scene, like have more kind of gravity to sharing this information. I mean, obviously it's vaporized. It couldn't have been a good thing.

Yeah. Maybe someone could have said. something about his backstory to give us a little more care or concern for Ensignacchino. Yeah. In that moment, would have a good time. Yeah, when they're realizing he's dead. He's vacuous. Yeah, like, oh, like even, oh, I remember the day he came to the station. What a nice guy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they do talk about him later. Like someone says like, you didn't know him very well. Did you chief? And O'Brien's like, no, I barely knew him, you know, it was all it was. So. Yeah. But we could have had some more. And that's where Nila says something like, oh, yeah, well, Bajorans and Starfle.

They don't get along or something. Oh, so they save it right on. Yeah. Okay. But they do come out in the promenade. Miles and Keiko come out. Miles and Keiko go over to the meat stick stand. The Jumja.

The Jumja stand. No, I want the Jumja without the meat. Okay. I want the vegetarian jimja. You don't want to say tongue popsicle? Okay. No. All right, fine.

But this pejoran vendor does not want to sell to Miles. All of a sudden now he's racist. Keiko knows. Heiko knows it immediately, but O'Brien takes offense and he immediately grabs him like he's gonna, I'm gonna, doesn't he say something like, I'm gonna shove a Jumja stick up your,

he stops before he says, yeah, Odo arrives to sort of break it up, ask, he asks the vendor, why wouldn't you sell to Miles? Yeah. Kiko pulls him away and then the vendor yells something to Miles like, seek the profits. Right.

Yeah. And I love Odo's reaction. Yeah. He says, seek them yourself. He even, he kind of sides with the, He was like, don't you want to make money? Exactly. Yeah.

The heck. But didn't this guy just sell to Miles at the beginning of the episode? He did. That's where he bought the time. He did. But that was pre- Before the school incident. Yeah. Before the school incident.

So we're already seeing the effects of Vedic Wynn's presence on the station and her. What's the way? And the conflict is starting to spread. The racism is starting to spread. The racism. And she is promoting it. Yep. Wow, nothing peaceful about that.

Yeah, Miles and Keiko take a walk and talk down the promenade. Miles says that maybe we, you know, you and I should just leave the station, Keiko. He's like, let's get out of here. I'll get a transfer. She's like, no, I have to stay through. And she has to see this through to the end. So she's very steadfast about that. And then they get up by the classroom and Vedic Wynne has all these Bajoran children and parents gathered around her.

And she turns to Keiko. and Miles. She tries to compromise. She says, you know, I hear you're a great teacher. Just, you know, also teach about the prophets. Teach what you want. Just also teach about the Bajoran religion as well. And, and then Keiko says, no. And then she says, well, then don't teach anything about the wormhole at all. Teach something else. And Keiko refuses that, too. She's like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, you know, withhold the truth. The science. The science. Yes. Exactly. Her purpose. And so, yeah, she says she won't ignore science. So Wynn says to the parents and the kids, I tried to compromise, but they, you know, they're not compromising. And she leads all these Bajoran kids away with like three or four Federation kids left standing there. Jake and a couple of other kids.

It was very sad. Where's Nog? Why isn't he in any of this? He should be in that scene. I know. It's a season finale. I don't understand. I agree.

That was our season finale. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You agree with me? They should have had Nog in this final episode.

Yeah, I agree with you. Maybe he wasn't available. Maybe, but I, I don't know. They could have recast him like they recast Nila. Just recast everybody. Nobody noticed. Gary Coleman as Nog. No.

Oh, no. No. Yeah, that is weird. That is a weird. It's weird that he's not there. Yeah, it is. He should be with Jake. Agreed. We go to ops next. And Cisco, Dax, Miles, and Keiko are discussing this for Aquino, who's perished. Miles thinks that all of this is really suspicious, that Aquino would never have taken his tool without asking. And also, it was 4 o'clock in the morning. I thought it was 1.30.

What? Maybe it was. To me, oh, my gosh, who cares? It was the middle of the night. It didn't really, really happen. Was that your inside voice? I'm so sorry. It was. inside voice. I'm sorry. It was either 1.30 or 4. It was the middle of the night. But Cisco asked Odo to look into this. So now they're stepping this up.

You know, security's going to investigate. And then Jake arrives and says, hey, Dan, can I talk to you? And they step up into Cisco's office. And Cisco says that he heard what's happening in the school. And Jake says, you know, Keko changed the lesson.

She taught about Galileo. And Jake's kind of wound up about this. He's like, I never knew this about Galileo, that he was convicted for teaching that the earth revolved around the sun. I love the scene. Sorry, I just love this scene. Yeah. Yeah. Jake thinks all these people were so stupid and so are the Bajorans. They're ignoring science for these fantasies and these religious beliefs. But Cisco defends them, which I thought was, that was one of the interesting parts in the scene. Yeah. How Cisco defends their, their spiritual beliefs. Leafs and says that he says the prophets were their only hope for a long, long time, and that

the prophets, this alien that they call the prophets, this alien sees the past and the future and all time is one thing. And so why not call them prophets then? If the future and the past are the same, that's, prophets is not a bad word for them. Really smart writing in here. Oh, so good. And then the caveat, which is like, don't turn in to. to what Vedic win is, but from the other side.

Like, he says that at the very end. Like, now you're turning, you're being just as divisive, but for the other opinion, basically, for science. Well, we're definitely going to discuss this at length when we get on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

There is a planet shot after this scene. And because Cisco ends that last scene with Jake. He says, I don't know, I think I need some help. Yeah. So we have this planet shot. Beautiful temples on Bayjore, by the way. That Baydor shot, Dan Curry did an awesome job. We go at the monastery and it's in a garden.

And I'm just going to, before we get into the scene, as I'm watching the scene, I'm like, I'm looking, I'm like, God, that looks so familiar. Is it on stage? Is it outside? Okay, hold that thought. I have a cold right now because I went to my Grandadry's birthday party 10 days ago. And it was in L.A. I flew to L.A. and we were at Griffith Park

at this playground and walking around. I was literally at the stream where the scene was shot 10 days ago where I got a cold. Oh my God. I love that. I'm watching the scene. That's amazing.

I'm like, that looks so familiar. I'm going to pull up a picture of literally. Terry, I think the stream gave Robbie the cold. That's what gave it to him. That is the same. That's where they filmed the scene. That is so cool, Robbie. Like, how about it?

Yeah. That was a kismet moment. And there's turtles there and stuff. Oh, my God. The only thing missing is Vedic beryl. That's all for your focus. I know. Anyway. And there's my granddaughter and her mom.

She's a cutie. But I can't, I'm watching the scene last night with my cold and everything. And I'm like, gosh, it looks familiar. And I put it together. we walked that path anyway sorry so much fun no griffith park sharing i just like how ravi was like i watched this scene with my cold and everything just the way he said that what was like the cold was because i got the cold from my beautiful granddaughter at the park where the scene was shot so you have a beautiful cold you have a beautiful cold mine's just a regular one but yours is beautiful

it's beautiful um so they're in the monastery there's cisco he throws a stone in a pond which i thought was very cool to reveal Barial walking over. It's that reflection shot in the water. And I thought that was beautiful. Nice job. Yeah, good job, David. Vedic Barial arrives. We learned that he's not as

orthodox as Wynn, basically. That he's much more open to Starfleet. And Cisco asks if he can have an audience with the assembly, if Barial can help him. He wants to discuss the school with the Bajoran Assembly. And he thinks Barial can help because beryl so different than when?

I think Vedic beryl feels more like a a progressive monk. Yes. More like a Buddhist monk. I will go with that. He just feels way more in tune to people and peace and plants and or just let him live and let live. No.

Would you call her a narcissist though? Oh, yes. 100%. Okay. Well, she's got a cooler hat than he. He has. She does. But he has gorgeous hair. Maybe she does not. Yes, he does. And I think if I was a man in his age, I would be really excited to have great hair. Yeah. And you both of you gentlemen are very lucky to have hair. Okay. I cover it with my hat all the time. So what you're saying is Robbie, she's way cooler because she has a Sydney opera house on top of her head. And what we need for him is the Smithsonian on top of his. head and then he could, you know, kind of compete in a way. Okay. Yeah. Yes. I agree. All right. Well, Bariah says, so Cisco asked to go in front of the assembly. Barile says, you know,

I'm afraid I can't help you these people. And there's a lot of people in the assembly that really fear Starfleet. And he says, you know, if I help you out, it could hurt my chances of becoming the next Kai. And he says, you know, the prophets teach us, patient, Cisco. And Cisco, I love his line when he goes, yes and they also teach you politics politics yeah i love that the writing is so good i love how honest virile is and he says it in a very diplomatic honest way yes yeah and he doesn't know cisco well no but i love how his approach is and you only have to meet win once to really pick up on who she is yeah yeah he seems like i yeah he seems like a flexible open-minded grounded kind

Yeah, and the kind of person she is is not a healthy person. Yeah. She doesn't see what she's doing is wrong. And neither do the other people that are needing her to lead them, right? They're scared, so they follow. That's why those kind of leaders do so well.

I don't think you were in any scenes with Louise, but did you get a chance to talk to Louise Fletcher at all in the makeup trailer or a hair trailer, anything like that? In future episodes, there's a scene where we're together. She's in more episodes? Yeah. Okay, ops. We're back in ops.

Cisco arrives. Three Bajoran crewmen didn't come to work, we find out. They called in sick. And Cisco says he thinks the Bajorans are willing to throw away all this progress that they've made with Starfleet on the station. And he needs them to have more trust in him. Like, we may have differences, but we need to trust each other. So he's kind of repeating this to Kira.

And Kira says, you know what? She's given all the support she can. And he gets really mad at that point. He's like, well, it's not enough. Sort of yells at her. He's very frustrated about these divisions. And he's sort of seeing this cohesion start to crumble because of Vedic win. Thanks, Vedic win.

I love how he says, well, those sick crewmen better get well pretty fast or he'll reassign them somewhere else. so he kind of makes a threat Cura leaves to go let them know they better come back to work and then Bashir and Odo arrive with some new evidence it is Aquino's DNA he was killed

you know he was killed but Bashir says the way he was killed he can tell from this this organic matter it was by a phaser that he was killed before he was even in this tube right so he was dragged

his dead body was Yes, his body was placed inside the conduit. So there's some kind of cover-up. And I was so happy. They explained it. So it's like, okay, great. Now we know that. That's good.

Now we know that. It's good. The C storyline is now, like, evident. And my man Bashir showed up. Yeah, Bashir showed up with some news. I was very happy. Did you cheer when he showed? I'm always happy to see Bashir.

I love Bashar. So killed by a phaser. We go in the commander's office next. the teams gathered in there to discuss Aquino's murder and Bashir says he was killed the day before a win arrived and the whole school issue became a big thing.

Yeah. So he can tell the time, he can tell how he was killed. And Odo chimes in, he says, he thinks the log entry could have been made to cover the murderer, whoever murdered him, that log entry could be fake, could have been trying to cover his tracks. Odo says that

he took a runabout at like four in the morning or something. No, no, he's like, Dax says, where did he go? This is Dax's big line here. And he's like, runabout pad C. Yeah, it was the runabout pad. They're at the, right there at the, yes. Yeah, he went to the runabout drive.

Yeah, he went to the runabout pad at four in the morning or something. This makes no sense. Doesn't. What is, what is Odo? O'Don says at the very end. Can I be O'Brien? Run about. What was he doing at, I've run about it at four in the morning?

And then your answer. And then Odo says, apparently he was getting murdered. That line I was like Oh my God Yes I was like Odo's a genius

No wonder He's the constable Wow he's on top of it He's so good He was funny Yes René was funny We go in the airlock

There's O'Brien and Nila examining this runabout But I just want to say This is where I went Oh Nila I get it This was the point

This was the scene This was the scene This was the scene As soon as his tool was missing, I was like, it's her. Oh, really? I didn't get it there. I watched too much TV. I watched too much TV as soon as it's like, it doesn't make sense for it to be

anybody else but her, right? Yeah, true. I'm sorry. Immediately with the tool was missing, it's her. When I read the title of this show, I was like, Neela, no. No, this is the scene for me. And part of it was like there was, and I didn't put all this together, but there was a different energy between Miles and Nila.

She seemed more, because it was a different actress. I still didn't put it together at this point. Oh, I totally put it together. I literally liked it. I literally stopped it. I said to Rebecca, who has seen this before? I said, Nila did it. I know, she's like, she's the one.

Yeah. And Rebecca sort of laughs. I knew I was right. I didn't know this yet. I honestly didn't. I know that Terry picked it up in the very beginning. picked it up here. I still did not know because in this scene, I was focusing more on the fact that something is about to go down between O'Brien and Nila because, you know, that whole thing

about she's saying, hey. There's a tension in the scene. And he's like, you're so nice. You're not like the others. That is, that's like a rom-com movie line. Well, they also don't they like slide down shoulder to shoulder. They did. They were on the same level. That's that's the time when the kiss happens. That first kiss. It's like super inappropriate. Yes. But he even says look i'll close up here because he realizes he's feeling these feelings himself and she goes are you sure he's like yeah yeah i'm sure she's well good night and she leaves that with that seductive little look on her face and what is o'brien that she can't help because she's gorgeous right she's gorgeous oh brian says on your toes o'brien which is a reference back to when keko said it in the first

scene of this episode when she was jealous of nila she goes just keeping you on your toes o'brien and he says it again so i felt like he felt oh my gosh i almost almost went down the wrong path there, you know. And also in this scene, they're examining the runabout launch pad or whatever. Everything seems normal. Yes. So if she's done something, which I felt like she did, she's covered it up really well. But you can tell she feels guilty in the scene.

They start talking about how Bajorans and Starfleet, she says they don't socialize much. That happens in the scene. She says something to him like, you're different. You're nice. You don't put on airs. Which is very, you can tell she feels guilty about something. Yeah. She's, there's a little sexual tension or flirtation.

But there's a little cozying up to him. Yes. There's just a little, even if you weren't thinking she's has something to do with this murder, she's feeling, it's feeling manipulative. Yeah. So that's by design. That's by design then. Correct. She's trying to cover her tracks better.

She doesn't really have feelings for O'Brien. No, I don't think. Well, she might really like him, but no. I don't think so. No. Okay. No. All right.

All right. So he closes up by himself on his toes. We go to the promenade next. He's relieved. I like it. Odo is at a kind of a, it looks like a cocktail table or something at Quarks. It's at the reprimat. Yeah, watching.

Yeah, the repliment. Watching all of these bejorans arriving. And Quark joins him. And Quark thinks that there's a pejorin. convention that he didn't know about he he wasn't aware of and otto says no it's an orthodox spiritual order that's coming to support win and quirk makes a joke about oh well i should get extra dabbo girls if they're orthodox because the spiritual ones really like the dabbo girls which i thought was a fun dig oh it's very funny otto ask quark if he knows anything about the murder he doesn't know anything

um and then i think miles arrives in the scene and uh he's got this security bypass module from pad A and Otis says well that makes sense the murderer was working in pad C and when Aquino arrived and gets murdered in pad C the body's taken to the conduit and the murder has to go back to pad A because he doesn't want to be traced to where the murder was and finishes his plans on pad A so they're sort of connecting the dots here um this is all confusing very confusing to me this part the A the C the this I was like well I make sense to me that that okay nila we know that she's the bad guy here yes uh nila was on pad c got got interrupted surprised by akino murders him in pad c but now it has to dispose of the body

gets rid of the body and now i got to go back and do what i was doing but i can't do it where i murdered the guy so it goes to just a different pad that makes maybe she accidentally destroyed that tool oh yeah maybe in the struggle of trying to carry it and him maybe she dropped it and then i mean there's a lot of maybes but it's and how do you drag a dead body around the station without somebody seeing this is kind of stronger than she looks it's also four in the morning it's four in the morning we're one in the morning four in the morning whatever you really know what time it is in space though i mean i don't know do you really know what time it is can i love that band chicago

me too the best just as they're putting this plan together though there's a giant explosion, kaboom, and they run over outside of the classroom. There's a giant fire. I have to say, you guys did so much fire

on DS9. Oh, my God. That makes me nerve. Like, it was big. Yeah. Giant explosion. Did you think Keiko was there in there? I did.

They made him, they made it seem like she was. Well, Odo and Miles run over, and Miles is panicking. He's calling into the fire. Can't get inside because of the flames, calling for Keiko, and then she steps in over his shoulder. She's safe. And then the security guy comes with a fire hose, which I thought was very 20th century, pulls a fire hose up and says,

step back, clear the way, and starts, you know, spraying the fire, putting out the fire. L-A-F-D. Yes. Robbie, did you notice that weird cut there? They were, because they're, he's screaming, Keiko, Keiko. And at one point, both O'Brien and Odo, both. turn back and look and then they look back at the fire again and then you hear Keiko go miles and then they both turn back and look so it was almost like they used double turn or something yeah no because there's the only time for them not to to look be looking at the fire is when when Keiko calls his name his name yes so they kind of use that footage twice in a way it was sort of like oh we don't have enough time and we got to pad it a little bit so it was a little weird

cut. Yeah, there's another weird edit later on. I'll point it out. But yeah, I think you'll probably know exactly. I will say that in the director's corner that I'm about to enter, David Livingston doesn't do a lot of close-ups generally. He does a lot of two shots, wider shots, wide-angle lenses. When you don't cover yourself with those close-ups, you are exposing yourself to these kind of mismatches because you can't get out of it. When you have a close-up, like if they had a close-up of Kato entering and saying Miles, they could have cut to that and gotten around these mismatches. Then I would have fixed it. Yeah, when you stay wide, which he does a lot, you're risking these kinds of continuity problems and that happens on David's

episodes a lot. Well, the next scene we go to after a little break, we come back, they're in the Cisco, Kira, Odo, and Nila are looking over this destruction, which I thought was interesting. I didn't see Miles there. I guess Miles went off with Kako after the bomb. They're having makeup sex. Yeah, that's what they're doing. But why is Nila there? Why is Nila?

Why is Nila with Cisco, Kira, and Odo? It made no sense. But anyway, they're looking over the destruction. That was odd. They decide it's a homemade bomb. The reason that Nila is there is because she's trying to cover evidence. She's the person who put the bomb in there. person yeah but but it made no story sense and if miles isn't there why is nila there but anyway she's

there um then we go over to the promenade we see wind coming through this crowd um she seems very concerned for take her it's so creepy hearing her say like yeah where is mrs o'brien was she hurt was anyone hurt it was like yeah it scared me gaslighting yeah she's creepy and uh cisco is mad in the scene And he flat out says he holds Wynn responsible for all this violence. He also says that the Assembly doesn't agree with her fringe group, that Wynn is part of a very small minority of extremists. And most of the Bajoran Assembly doesn't agree with them. And her response is, oh, did Beryl tell you that? So you can see this conflict between Wynn and Boreal is already.

There's a competition for her. Yes. Heavy, deep. Yep. And this is where Cisco gives this great speech about working together. in spite of differences and he says in the speech that her ideas are going to grow old these extreme ideas people are going to get tired of it and this school is going to reopen someday and she basically smirks and says yeah we'll see and cisco leaves uh and when and nila at this

point share a very long suspicious look if you didn't know she was no they're not lovers no they're not lovers well that's a whole new episode then not a long loving look a long suspicious look and this is where my feelings in that earlier scene were confirmed i'm like of course yeah on the bad side um we go to ops here cisco arrives he's checking uh on caco with o'brien and o'brien says she's going to keep her classes going in a in a small cargo bay and cisco confirms jake's going to be there so he's supporting this yeah and And then Dax announces that Vedic Beryl is calling from a transport. So he's on his way.

Cisco speaks with him. But Beryl says that he'd like that tour of the station that they discussed. And Cisco says, well, we just had this little explosion. It's a bit messy right now. And Beryl says, well, maybe I can help you clean it up. So a lot of subttext. He heard about it. He heard about it.

Exactly. He heard about it. Yeah. That's exactly why it's on his way. So you can tell there's a little subtext in this conversation. but you also see Nila in the background behind Cisco eavesdropping and listening to this conversation. Oh, the wicked Nila.

Well, we go into the Bajorn Shrine next. Nila arrives to talk to Wynn secretly. Wynne says you shouldn't be here. Neal says they know about the runabout. She goes, if I do this now, if I follow through with our plan, I'm going to be caught. I'm going to be executed. Yeah.

And Wynne's answer is, Well, if that's the prophet's will, then your sacrifice will earn you eternity. Very creepy. Like suicide bomber, extremists. Yes. Right? Isn't that right where you went? That's right where I went.

Yeah. Me too. But again, I love that, the shrine. I got to say, I want a shrine in my backyard. It's a great set. Yeah. I'm not going to be an extremist. You can make it happen.

You can convert a yurt into the shrine. Yes, into the shrine. It's a cool set. And you can have a lathe inside your. yurt when you build it. All right. We go to Ops and Miles, this is where he goes down into that pit. This is where Miles finds.

Yeah. Now I have my pit shot. Yes. Your pit shot. The pit shot. O'Brien finds a secret sub program called A&A. He doesn't know what it is. He has a computer.

Computer says, you created it. O'Brien, it's your program. But he needs a code to get in. And so DAC starts decoding this encrypted password. Robert. I just love how when he says, I never saw this file before. Override commanding is unable to comply. He created it, but he can't override it. It's like what? Yes. It's bad. Yes. Neela. He needs some kind of encryption sequence. So DAC starts doing this. I think David did a great job. Moving miles around the whole set. These were all new views of this offset for me. And we're 19 episodes in, whatever this is. Great job, David. for moving him down to the pit and showing us how you get there that you climb down and it looked cool.

Yeah, I thought it was really cool. Yeah. Yeah, we go to the promenade next. Kira leads Bariol out of this airlock into this giant throng of background actors. Bariol picks up a small boy.

Odo's clearing his path. It's like he's a rock star. And I've got to say there's so many background actors in this, the most I've ever seen. On your show. On any star, On any track. On any track.

Yeah. Or any track. Even our show, we never had this many. We never had that many. It was huge. You got a budget cut. You got Kate instead. Yes, we did.

Yes. And it does reveal that shot up in the bridge, that balcony shot or whatever. As Baraya walks through this giant crowd, we see this case in the foreground. Oh, the other thing of the promenade. Yeah, yeah. I always love those shots, too. It was great. It pans around.

You see the case, some mystery. case in the foreground and then it tilts up and there is nila robin christopher's face looking scary and dangerous she's a bad girl bad bad bad bad bad seed um back to ops miles is coming out of the pit climbing up a ladder i thought that was very cool um to join dax up up on the main deck they access this hidden program it shows that there were security overrides uh from the promenade to run about pad A. And so at first, Miles thinks, oh, this is an escape route. They find that a relay was activated just minutes ago for this escape route path or whatever it is. They don't know exactly what it was. Miles heads down to the security office to see how this was,

this relay was just activated. So he's getting close. We go back to the promenade here. Burial arrives with wind. I did like this moment. Did you know. notice when Winn sees him and goes to grab his ear. And he's like, no, he takes her hand. Yeah, he did it really elegantly too, didn't he? He's like, you're not going to touch my paw. He's like, you're not going to read my paw or touch my ear, anything. Yeah.

Yeah. But he says they've got to go to the school, tells Wynne, let's go to the front of the school. Let's show our commitment to a peaceful outcome of this issue. And they head down hand in hand. She did not get his paw. She was... He's holding onto her hand.

But Cisco, Kira, a whole crowd of a million background actors arrives in front of the school. And I did know... Did you notice that as they walk, you see this crowd following them. And these Bajorans have kids on their shoulders and, you know, like sitting up... And I was like, I guess Bajorans like to have kids on their shoulders. I never knew that because there were a lot of kids on shoulders. I think it's... It doesn't that, like, remind you of anything you go to?

where there's little kids and they want to see the stage. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it was the school story. That's why the kids are involved here because it's about. Yeah. And the rock star, it's like, yeah, let's, oh, my gosh. It's like he's all of that.

He is everything he promises he's going to be anyway so far. And he's got great here. He's great. Robbie, you had your daughter on your shoulders in that random Santa Monica, West Hollywood ice cream place that I saw you in while we were filming. Do you remember that? Did I? Yeah. So Bajorans and and Robbie McNeil like to put children on their shoulders.

Yeah. It's a thing. In the security office, O'Brien arrives now and he finds the subspace device is inside the isoliner processor that Nila had just repaired at the beginning of this episode. So it's all coming together for O'Brien.

He calls Dax. He fills her in. Dax says, didn't you just repair that unit two days ago? And Opa Brand answers, yes, I did with Nila. This is it. This is it, right? Yeah, this is, but Colum does this head snap at the end of this. Do you notice that?

He goes, yes, I did with Nila. And then the music rises. And he goes, his head like snaps around? To look at Terry? To look at Terry? No, no, he's by himself in the room. I'm not there. I'm still in off.

She's up at all. So this is the sharpest head snap I've ever seen an actor. And it was towards where the school is. Yes. Oh. It was him putting it all together. But it was, I don't know who, what other actor could have pulled that off and kept it real like Colm did, but it was amazing head snap.

That's why I didn't realize. I didn't notice that because he did it so naturally that it didn't stand out. Yeah. Please go back and watch the head. No. No. It was actually very purposeful. Right.

Danger. It is a dangerous. Yes. We go back outside the school room. The crowd's heading to the school steps. Neil is in the crowd. We see her sneaking through. Odo's nearby.

Cisco and Kira are there too. Beryl's speaking to the crowd. He admits this violence is shameful. And back in the security office, O'Brien, because he snapped his head so sharply, has figured out. You know Dr. Bashir. Yes. He's figured out it must be the weapons detectors in the promenade.

That's what this thing is done. So he calls Dax. She says, no, these are normal, but O'Brien knows Nila is good. She could cover this up. So he calls Cisco. I did like that Beryl in this scene. He's talking about how the Bajorans used to be the center of learning. And that they attracted travelers from all these other worlds.

And I loved that little bit of pain. painting the picture because combined with that shot of the planet and this beautiful place, it did seem like this just Garden of Eden, this oasis, this real idyllic, amazing place. Shangri-La. Shangri-La. Yeah. It's painting a picture of a Bajoran world very different than Wyn. Very different than that harsh.

And very different than Kira's stories about it. Yeah. Yeah. I like that here. will say that David does a great job at this point in the promenade, building this tension of Nila slowly walking up and, you know, everything's just all of the slow-mo they use and she pulls out that phaser. I just thought that was, you know, overall a really good job by David. Well, the slow-mo thing is very unusual for Star Trek. We didn't use it that often because

Rick Berman hated it. But it is a very effective tool. Very effective. Like most of them are when you use the rarely they're even more effective because it's like, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. But O'Brien has told Cisco what's up. So Cisco in slow motion is clocking everything as the speech is continuing and the applause is going in slow motion. We see Nila take the weapon out of her toolbox.

She's pointing it up towards Bariol. Cisco is no. And that's what kind of startles everybody, right? Is that how she misses because of the no? Well, here's the thing. That's where those weird cuts are. Did you notice that, Robbie? Yeah, it looked like somebody knocked out of her hand

and then they shoot. Disco leaping across and she's still holding the gun as if she never. Whoa. Yeah. I also thought it was weird that she pulls the gun out and sticks it like three inches from the head of another Bajoran who continues just to laugh

and clap in slow motion. Like not noticing a gun at all. Nobody's seeing that there should have been. And somebody like going, seeing the gun, right? There should have been some reaction to sell that a little better. 100%. Yeah, to really sell the danger. I felt like Nila, she may be a great engineer, like O'Brien says, but she's not a sharpshooter.

She is definitely not a good shot. But seriously, when it misses, it looks like somebody hit her hand. Yeah, like someone in the crap bumped against her, right? Yes, yes, that's exactly what it looked like. But then she has the gun up, like nothing. changed it and Cisco's leaping like Superman across that landing didn't feel good

no it was a little again it's a lot of way too high yeah wasn't it too high it looked like he was a diving board it looked like they put the camera down on the ground yeah and he dove over the camera ran hit a diving board

and then jumped towards her he probably did over people that were like they weren't short No. No, but Jorans are not short people. They're not hobbits. No. Yes.

Different movie. Different movie. But he does knock her down, Neela, at this point, we're back into real-time, not slow-motion. She's getting dragged away. She's saying, the prophet spoke, I answered their call. The prophet spoke. I answered their call. She's just, she's been brainwashed.

And Kira is pissed. Wow. She grabs Louise Fletcher with such. force and oh she was upset i felt bad for louise at that point i'm like wow you're getting jerked around right now but this is like the character arc you were talking about terry like this is where you see kira um her eyes are opened the veil is lifted oh yeah she can see now right she's clear so i was really happy for uh nana that her character had this significant arc and i thought they did a great job of writing it yeah without having to

add more stuff. It's interesting how little she actually speaks in this episode and how important her story arc is to the story. Yep, I agree. But Wynn does not admit anything. She just walks away in silence. And then we go up to ops for our last scene. Kira's leaning on a console, sad Kira, her, you know, ideals.

Her hero. Her hero is fallen. And Cisco arrives. He says that Nila admitted that she, did it all alone, but Kira knows that they're not going to be able to prove that Wynn was involved, even though she believed she was. And I love this last exchange where Kira says, you know, everything you said in front of the school, I agree with it, that I don't think that you're the devil. I love how they pull that back in, his great speech. You loved it so much it became part of

your Limerick. Exactly. And Cisco, says you know what we're finally making some progress so for me the end of this being the end of the season was a great place for cisco to kind of comment that he feels like uh we've we've grown this season our characters we're we're starting to trust each other yeah way that we didn't in the beginning season so yeah there you go good episode Lesson time. My theme and moral is be careful of extremism in anything. Okay. Any side of any issue, the extremes are often equally bad choices.

Yeah. Nice. Nice. Terry? I would say respect and tolerance. Yeah, because it's creationism versus science. And I'm a really strong believer that they should be separated. So completely separated. For these very reasons that, yeah, yeah. And the respect and tolerance of other points of view.

Yeah. Garrett, what's your theme? Moderation is key. But my other side lesson is from the mouth of Keko. Be careful who you share your jimja with. Always important to remember. That is excellent. For those who are in committed relationships,

Just be careful who you share your jim-jaw with, that's all. Nice. All right. Yeah. For our theme and moral poll, voted on by Majors, captains, admirals, and prophets, submitted by Carolyn. Fundamentalism is a convenient cover for the most ruthless politicians. Hmm. Yes.

That's a great. That's a great one. Well, that does our episode and our recap for this week. for our Patreon patrons, please stick around. We've got lots of great bonus material. For everybody else, we'll see you next time. Our next episode we're going to be discussing is the episode, The Homecoming.