The Delta Flyers - Indiscretion

Episode Date: June 24, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Indiscretion, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Armin Shimerman, and special guest Marc Alaimo.Indiscretion: Kira reluctantly allows Dukat to accompany her on a mission to find lost Bajoran prisoners - A mission with emotional consequences for them both. We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano,  Randy Hawke, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, & Tamara EvansAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Cassie Brandt, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary,  Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Lindsay Bundy, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Joshua Shields, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, Brian Heckathorne, & Mark JohnsonThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and special guest, Mark Alimo, and myself, Garrett Wan. Yay. Yay. Mark, welcome.

Wow, thank you. So good to have you here. I know we've been talking to you for almost a year, maybe. I don't even know how long about what episode you would like to maybe be interested in coming to join us, and this is the one that you mentioned. So I'm so glad that you were willing to come on. Thank you. It's very nice.

Great work in this episode, too. Really, really, really great. grounded, emotional, moving work. Yeah, I watched it the other night. My wife and I hadn't seen it in a long time. And it was good, really good. Really good. I'm proud of myself.

You should be. You should be, Martin. You know, Robbie and I have not watched East Base Nine until we started doing this recap and discussion with Armin and Terry Farrell. And we've been bowled over. And you are definitely one of our favorite actors on this show. every time every episode you've been in not just this one everyone we've watched you in you have brought

the thunder like every time and it's just it's so beautiful it's so beautiful very nice very nice and i will add to that compliment last night i had dinner with nana visitor and i told her i was doing this today and she said mark is phenomenal in this episode mm nana said that nice love it did she say anything else no she said he asked me about what i wanted to eat mark but aside from that just so everybody knows mark and i have known each other long before star trick deep space nine oh we did a movie in italy together in rome in rome oh wow it's one of my favorite memories yes it was a lovely time a lovely time and what's what was the best part of that you know what it was for me what was that sitting in that little park in rome playing chess with you

Oh, yeah, yeah. Remember? Yeah. Oh, wait. That's awesome. Your memory is slightly off. That was a big park. It wasn't that big.

They had horses. It had horses, but I think it was about the size of Central Park. But yeah. Really? Yeah. Maybe our little section was small, but it was a big park. But he got the chess right. The chess is correct.

The chess is right. Okay, the chess is right. So wait, you're sitting in this beautiful park in Rome. Your young actors on location, you're playing chess. Did you have like a. cappuccino did you have a glass of wine with you what was the no one wearing a beret no no it's all too romantic but i wish we had gone on wines we had a day off and uh we were playing chess and and it was it was glorious i recently went back to rome about six seven months ago it's way more crowded

than it was when we were there really it's too many people too many people wow what you go back for we took a hiking trip uh in another part of italy and the couple that we went with had never been to Rome before so kitty and I said okay we'll join you in Rome we spent a lot of time there but we'll join you and we went back to a lot of places we didn't go back to that park but we did go to some other places and it was just it's more people than I remember I mean tons more people oh my god what year did you guys film that film in Rome I don't remember Mark oh my god it was called arena had to be in the 80s had to be in the 80s yeah yeah and it was my first time in Italy And I'm Italian.

So I was overly excited to be there. It was great. And I served as Mark's translator some of the times. What? I knew a little bit more Italian than he did. Oh, no. We would go places, and Mark would say, how do we say this? How do we say that?

I was his trusty translator. I love it. I love it. We have some birthdays we have to go through. Our first birthday is Stephanie Baker on June. June 24th. Happy birthday, Stephanie. Happy birthday, Stephanie. Happy birthday, Stephanie. Happy birthday, Stephanie. Thank you. Next up, we have Cassandra Gerard. Happy birthday to Cassandra, June 24th also. Happy birthday, Cassandra. Happy birthday, Cassandra. Many happy returns. Happy birthday, Cassandra. Happy birthday,

Cassandra. Happy birthday, Cassandra. And Anne Harding has a birthday on June 27th. Happy birthday, Ann. And happy birthday. Happy birthday, Anne. And Harding, happy birthday to you. Okay, here is my limerick for indiscretion. Kira and Dukot go alone for a ride. Their old roles and stories still linger inside.

Cisco's scared to roll the dice till he gets Jake and Nog's advice. true connection cannot be denied. I like it. Well done. Well done. Nice. Okay.

You're open Thursday night. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you. I'm ready. Here's my haiku for indiscretion. Looking for lost souls. Kira and Dukot soften.

Dukot's kid is boss. Nice. Thank you. Very nice. very good very good do we have some etymology indiscretion is from the from the oxford english dictionary it comes from the french and discretion and the definition in the oxford english dictionary is an indiscreet or imprudent act or steps sometimes it's a euphemism for a transgression in want of judgment in speech or action now as the definition implies a transgression

that may be well related to what Duccott does in here. He's dealing with an indiscretion that he made years before. Not that it was a bad one, but it was an indiscretion. Okay. Oh, interesting. I didn't connect it to the past choices, but that's interesting. Got it. I like the part about it where it says in want of judgment or poor judgment or something.

Like having to make a judgment call, and Duccott has to do that. Cisco has to do that. Yeah, they're tricky. They kind of have to correct some mistakes or poor judgment. All right. Let's talk about the teleplay by Nicholas Correa. Story by Tony Marbury and Jack Trevino. This episode is directed by Lavar Burton. This is the very first DS9 episode to be directed by LeVar. Before this, his Star Trek directing happened on TNG for two episodes, Second Chances and the Pegasus. And he also directed Star Trek Voyager in ex post facto, a big Robbie McNeil, Tom Paris episode with the Feather People, where he was accused of murder, basically. So I find it interesting. He directed Voyager before D.S9, even though D.S9 started before us.

But that's just the way it happened. It works out. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember working with LeVar, Mark? Oh, yeah. Very well. He was very good.

Yeah. We always loved him. Yeah, I enjoy working with him a lot. My memory of LeVar was he had a golf cart on the lot. He had, I think he had an office. He did. He did have an office. And he used to sit on the back of his golf cart with a cigar.

Well, they were lighting, lighting the scenes. And he would just hold court outside of the stage with his cigar and the shade of his golf cart. And if you remember, he had a baseball cap that said E-R-R-A-R-C-I-S-M on there. So the letter E and then R-A-C-I-S-M to erase racism, basically. I remember that, a lot of, yeah, that was one of things. Guest stars, Penny Johnson as Cassidy Yates, Roy Brocksmith as Ruska, is it Ruska Karn? Is that how we pronounced it?

Rosca. Rosca. Raska Karn. Yeah. And of course, special guest star, Marker Limo, as Gol-Ducat. Well, what's interesting about that, if that's the same Nick Carrillo, who wrote it, I didn't even realize it when we did it. But he and I were best friends. Wow.

Really? It was the same in Korea. Probably is. He did, he worked at Universal. He was doing a home. Huck. Uh-huh. And that's how we met.

Wow. He was friends. Wow. Oh, that's amazing. I'm sure it probably was the same. It's probably the same one. Which may have led him to why he pitched the story so that he, you would do something with you. I think so. I think so I feel. Yeah. Because he wrote a Hulk just for me.

Right. Wow. It was one of my favorite of all the time. You're talking about Incredible Hulk. Yeah. He did he did a script called Nine Hours. Okay. That was the main character. Yeah. It's one of my favorite pieces I've ever done. Nice. Wow. Well, it sounds like Nick Korea has your back. Oh, he did. Right. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. had been in this business for a very long time. And the first play I ever did was with Roy Brocksmith. Wow. A number of years went by. And the first Broadway show I ever did was with Roy Brocksmith. Roy and I worked together probably on and off for about two years, I would say. Wow. There's a very famous production of Three Penny Opera with Raul Julia. And Roy sang the

song that everybody knows from the show of Mac the Knife. Oh, the shark has. He's great. And then Roy started the theater here in Los Angeles that was well attended by a lot of people. He passed away, unfortunately, at the beginning of the century. 2001. That's when he passed right when we ended Voyager, unfortunately. Wow. He was very good. Very good. We have two co-stars. We have Sia Batten as Zial. And if you remember, Sia Baton, Robbie, she's the one who guest starred on Voyager. in the race, the shuttle race one, if you recall. Oh, yeah.

Yes. So when I saw her name on the credits, I was shocked that that was her. I was like, oh, my gosh, because she grew up in our episode, basically. She was older. Yeah. When she did that, that's probably three years later. Wow, that's funny. With the makeup, I didn't make the connection.

No. Wow, that's cool. She was my first daughter on DS9. Three girls are women who played my daughter. I would come in in the morning and I have to face a new woman playing my daughter.

Wow. Wow. Well, this is the first time we've met this character so she, so Cia is the first actor. But now we know from Mark that she comes, this character comes back. The character is going to come back. But with two other actresses playing the role and was it purely because of scheduling

conflicts that they had to keep switching? I don't know about that. I would take another guess. The makeup that all Cardassians wore and Mark wore it more than anyone else was really hard to be in and the clothing was well not so much for the women but for the men

so it may be that she said having worn that makeup once I'm not going to wear it again. That totally makes sense. Yeah if you think about coming in and doing and not used to that type of alien prosthetic makeup they probably could have been allergic got turned off to it, claustrophobic

you don't know and they just bowed out there was an actor I don't know what episode, I didn't direct it, but it was on Enterprise. And I came in and they told me this had just happened in the previous episode. They had a guest star come in. He shot some, got his makeup on. It was a big alien makeup. I don't know what kind of alien.

But he was having panic attacks in the makeup. And they broke him for lunch or maybe even just a lighting break. And he put on his street clothes and left. Ripped what he could off of his face. threw it on the floor and left. He just didn't even tell anybody. He's just like, I can't do this. He had a panic attack.

So I can imagine that makeup is very intense. It was. It was. And his costume was equally as bad because we rarely talk about the costume, but what they had to wear as Kardashians was enormously uncomfortable. It was a wetsuit. It was a wetsuit that you wore underneath your costume. And, of course, all of your body sweat just accumulated and just got hotter.

hot and hot. I had a big black wig on. Yeah. Yep. And if I went out in the sun, it would feel like my head was covered with ants. Oh. Because of the sweat. Yeah. And it was 115 degrees. Right.

And we shot that episode. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, when we get to those scenes, I want to talk about that, the heat, for sure. Yeah, sure. I mean, to further what Armin was saying about how difficult it was, your wardrobe, Mark. in this episode you are promoted to legate so the legate has a different color

more of like a shiny sheen tunic as opposed to what you had before it's a little bit different but I'm assuming it was the same amount of restrictiveness it wasn't any more comfortable for this episode to tell you the truth I never had a problem with it really okay no no I liked it it made me look powerful

got it yes it did and I enjoyed that Yeah. We can understand that, yes. Okay. Robbie, let's jump right into this episode. Let's do. Okay. All right.

Well, we start in Kira's Quarters at this top of the episode. Kira's meditating. I made a note, is she meditating standing up? I thought she was meditating, yeah. Standing up, though? But she was standing up because they had the candle in the frame and she was kind of in the meditation pose when Worf calls. But I didn't.

I thought that they sat down to do that. So I thought it was an interesting choice to have her standing. She may have been standing because it made her, as Mark just alluded to, it made her more powerful. If she was kneeling, she would have been less powerful. And maybe LeVar was thinking about that. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, Worf calls her in her quarters from ops.

I made another note here, I'm like, if I was meditating, I would put my do not disturb on. Like, my iPhone has a do not disturb. I would not. You're going to put a Do Not Disturb on your Com badge? I would. How do you do that? Can't you put a Do Not Disturb on your...

No. How would you... If I'm meditating, I want some peace and quiet. I'm going to check out. Anyway, she forgot to put her Do Not Disturb on. Worf gives a call. He says, Roska Karn is calling for her, and she immediately knows who that is. Yeah.

And she heads over to accept the call on her tiny little view screen. I thought that was a very tiny view screen. I thought that was a very tiny view screen. She talked to him. But we learned he's a smuggler, and he's got a lead on the Ravanaugh, which I don't remember ever coming up before, this Ravonock ship. This feels like a new thing, right? Yeah.

But he's got some scrap metal. He can't bring it, though. She's going to need to come to the badlands to get it. And I also made a note, even Bajorans have male pattern baldness. That's the first bald Bajoran, I think I've seen. Oh, yeah, with Roy. With Rosca. Yes. Rosca.

Mm-hmm. Is that true, Armin? Do the pejorans? I don't know. I know the Ferengi are, but I can't tell you about the bejorn. I like seeing a bald bejoran. Yeah. For all the years I've known, Roy, he was always bald, so, yeah.

Since he was a young man. Yeah. She takes the call from Rosca, and then we cut to the security office. Odo's talking with her. He's going over security updates. He makes a joke. She's not even paying attention. And she shares that she's got this lead on the Ravinek.

And he doesn't even argue with her. He immediately says, well, good luck. Because he knows, he knows her well enough to know. She's not going to let this opportunity to figure something like this out. He says, good luck. But once again, I'm going to have to say that she has responsibilities on the station. How does she just get to take off? How does she just get to say that?

And not only to take off, but to take one of the runabouts with her, I would assume those runabouts either belong to the station or they belong to Starfleet. And I just thought, okay. I mean, it's now a running thing that she can leave whenever she wants. But I found that a little hard to believe, considering she's second in command. Yeah, it seems like if you're a crew member, a senior crew member, that you would have to go through a process to make sure that you get approval on those sorts of things, which I guess she has a scene with Cisco.

I think she does get approval from Cisco And I think she's like Teacher's pet to Cisco in a way I think he lets her do whatever she wants Because she's her She's she And she's Starfleet Yeah, she's a type A personality

So I think he's fine with it She's not Starfleet I don't think yet No she's not Starfleet But Starfleet seems to just let people Yeah well they never gave me a ship Mark did they ever give you a ship That was my ship

That was your ship exactly Although the ship that you're on with her is their ship. Oh, yeah. That runabout ship, yeah. We do go to take care his quarters. Cisco does come in. He says, I'm afraid you can't leave yet because you're going to have to wait a day or two because the Cardassian government got wind of your plan and they want to send someone with you.

And she's not very happy about this. He insists that Bayjor and Starfleet or Bayjor and Cardassia have a have a, have a, have a an agreement now, they've got to get along, they've got to work together because of the Klingon disruption that's gone on. And the main reason is the Ravanaugh is a Cardassian ship to begin with. So that's why they're sending in the Cardassian representative. Yeah. She does say in the scene, well, if the representative isn't here within 52 hours, I am going to leave. I thought that was a very specific amount of time, 52 hours. I didn't think it was specific enough. I wanted her to say 51 hours, 35 minutes, and 12 seconds.

That would have been better for me. It seemed oddly specific. It was. I don't know. Very specific. We cut out to the corridor. Dax and Cisco are walking and talking. Dax is asking about Cassidy.

You know, is it serious? How's it going? And Cisco's like, I don't think it's that serious. And suddenly Cassidy walks up in the middle of this conversation. That happens a lot in this episode. Did you notice that, Robbie? where they'll talk about somebody and that person just pops into frame immediately.

I've noticed that the first two times. The people talking have to be blind because I know where that spot is on the promenade. You can't just pop up. There's no corners to turn there. It's all out in the open. Blind and deaf. They should have heard exactly

what was being spoke about them as well. Exactly. Okay. Continue. Sorry. Yeah, well, she walks up, Cassidy walks up. She says, I'm applying for a job on a Bajorn freighter, so I'm going to be in the sector full time.

And, and Dax says, well, you know, you should just live on the station if you're going to be here. Cassidy thinks that's a great idea. So she heads off. And I do like your friend, the writer. He does this a few times in this episode where he starts with an idea and then he calls it back at the very end of the scene. So they start with Cisco saying, oh, Cassidy's not serious about this relationship. And then at the end, Dax's last line is, well, that answers that. She's serious.

So he bookends, he frames these scenes in a really nice way. If we go to Ops, Cisco arrives, Worf says the Cardassian Transport is ready to beam their mystery representative aboard, and now we see beamed onto the platform in Ops. It's DuCott, nice hero angle of you there, Mark. Low angle, very impressive. And Kira is not thrilled. Right. She is not.

not happy at all. And also, Mark, that's something that Armin has told us before that he heard from you on set in that when you did play the role of Dakot, you always played Dakot as the hero. Never as the villain. He was always

the hero. Which really, I think you did it the right way. Because every time you're on screen, we are glued to watching you. So, good job. You never thought of them as one dimensional evil. I mean, he was a warrior. He was a soldier, and he could do damage.

But I always wanted to take him further than that and give him a heart. And that whole thing with his daughter really brought that out. Absolutely. Mark, did you play a lot of bad guys? Yeah. You did. I did. And did you often, was that sort of like a rule for you when I play these bad guys?

I don't want to play them one dimensional. one-dimensional or like they're i want to play them as people doing what they think is right or how did you how did you approach a bat playing a villain how did you approach that work my natural was always be unpredictable don't let the audience figure out your next step what you're going to do surprise them and so that was always how i felt all my characters you know you can play them one dimensionally just bad evil which was very easy or you could give them some edge which i always tried to do yeah yeah i found that your approach with ducotte what we've seen so far is that you bring a lot of charm to this character you know that that it feels friendly often

and warm and empathetic and you know you're the the kind of acting choices you made were very engaging to further what robbie just said i would say charm mixed with panache that's what i that's what i see from dakot panash and charm yes which makes him more dangerous yes i can't even spell Oh, my gosh. P-A-N-A-C-H-E. Yes, you spelled it right? Okay. All right.

We're in the runabout, and right off the bat, Kira is annoyed with Dakot is the best way, and she kind of sets the rules. She's like, listen, you're going to follow everything that I say. You're not going to, you know, this is my mission. You're only here because I agree to let you to come along. So when I give an order, I expect you to follow it. So she really, you know, she lays down the rule.

But we also realized from this conversation what's going on here in that Kira has a friend who was on that Ravenoc. That was the exact person that recruited her into the Shakar resistance cell that she was part of. That was her mentor, I suppose, that was on that transport. So that's the reason why she's there. But again, she's very, very stern. and you can tell there is definitely tension between the two characters in this. And I was surprised that

that Duccott sort of was so agreeable. Yeah, I was waiting for the turn. I'm like, is he going to do something? I don't know. Yeah. He was very agreeable. Yeah. Even at the very end, I love it when I forget her last line. He's like, I'd like to spend the next six hours in silent meditation. DeKat says, is that a request or an order? Kira says, whatever it takes.

And DeKat says, well, in that case, as much as it pains, me, then he leans back to like take a nap. And the Kara's like, we both might survive this trip after all. But both Robbie and I thought, no, Descartes coming back with some other smart comment. But he doesn't. He doesn't. He's very agreeable. Yeah. Very agreeable. He really had a thing for her. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So he was just happy to be there with her. Yeah. He doesn't have to talk. He could just, he could be quiet right next to her. He's fine with that. Absolutely. I remember Ethan Phillips used to say to me that he played. played Neelix as if he was in love with the captain, Captain Janeway, on our show.

And they never had a story about that. But just the way that he played, that Ethan played his character, led the writers to write more scenes with Neelix and the captain, kind of, you know, warm scenes and getting along. And I think of that came from the actor, from Ethan Phillips' choice to kind of lean into one quality with that. relationship and I'm sure that happened on your show I've seen it already I've seen different character friendships or romances or whatever sort of develop that start with the actors choices and I I feel like you guys brought so much to this show and these characters that way well we go to Cisco's quarters next for a nice romantic candlelit dinner that Cisco's going to screw up in a second she says

it looks like she's got this job Cassidy says she's excited and he's just kind of cold and a bit aloof and then she continues while I may try living on the station like Dax recommended and and his comment is well that's a big step not what not what you say no Benjamin not what you say on a romantic dinner she wants him to have a little more enthusiasm and she calls him out she says you're afraid to commit and if you don't want me on the station that's fine with me and then there's a bit of awkward silence, which I like that he, that LeVar let that silence play out before Cassidy got up and left. Yeah, because like she did this move where she, she said, okay, I'm going to sit here

and have the dinner with you. She reaches over to grab that wine carafe. And she starts to pour, and she's like, nope, I'm not staying here and puts it down and takes off. So I do like that piece of business that happened. It looked much more realistic for sure. Yeah. I always found LeVar to be really good with actors. You can tell he respected. actors. Yeah. Because he was one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Robby, you talk about, you talk about Cisco being cold. I kind of feel just that he was reserved. I didn't feel like he was cold because I felt, I felt for him. I've been in arguments where I'm just like, okay. And then the other person's like, why aren't you more excited about this? Like I am excited. I'm on the same page as you. No, you're not. Not by the way you just said it.

So I've been in this romantic argument in the past with the past girlfriend. friend for sure it's happened so when I watched this I was cringing the entire time I'm like me too Avery's got some funny moments in this episode very funny yeah we go back to the runabout in the badlands now they rendezvous with another ship and Kira's checking out this scrap of metal Raska says he got it from a Ferengi but that's all he can really say about it Dukot is scanning it to see if it's really from the Ravanaugh while he's doing that Rosca kind of has a comment to Dukot about, you know, I know some marquee that would love to get their hands on you. And Dukot says, well, you know, I know some Kardashians that love to get their hands on you, the smuggler that you are.

So there's a little bit of tit for tat that goes on between them, which I thought is. But also harkens back to the war and the occupation. You know, as you said, the writer's very good. about reminding us about things. And if we had forgotten, there it is. But I must say, as I was watching that scene, and I loved the work that Roy did, but I thought, why didn't they give that to Quark?

Well, I could have done all of that stuff. Oh, yeah. And I don't know why. I'm sure they had a reason. Maybe we'll ask him in the future. Well, it's also at this point that when I was watching the episode, I kept thinking, I kept listening to Roy talking. and then I said, oh my gosh, Roy.

Roy played one of the most, I don't know, for me, one of the most memorable characters from Total Recall, where he plays that doctor. You guys remember in Total Recall? Oh, yeah. See that. Okay, well, Schwarzenegger's in that. Yeah, remember that, Mark, that scene

where Schwarzenegger is thinking he's still in the dream. And it's Roy's character, is like, if you do this, you know, and you'll be pulled out of this, you'll lose your whole memory. And then Schwarzenegger looks over at Roy, Roy, he has one piece of sweat that comes down his cheek. And that's when he realizes this isn't a dream.

And he takes out his gun and starts blasting. But it was such a memorable scene with Roy in it. And that's when I realized that's the same actor. Same actor. Wow. Kudos to Roy and his talent. Yeah. Well, Dukot does figure out this is really a piece of scrap from the Rabinac.

They learned that it was in the DeZaria system. So that's where they're going to head next. So Kira thanks, Roska. And off they go. I think it's a good idea, though, Armin. I don't know why you couldn't have been the one to find this, you know, smuggled piece. Yeah. Yeah.

And that could have helped your relationship with Kira, with Kourke and Kira's relationship. You know what I mean? Like, they could have used that. Yeah, that's a good pitch. Yeah. I'd like to see that version. Well, the shuttle comes over into orbit. They're entering orbit.

They read, Ducotte reads severe ionic interference. Kira picks up a faint magneton signature, which could be residual radiation from a damage warp nacelle. And that's why they decide that they should go ahead and just touch down on the planet instead of beaming down because of all the interference, your pattern might get scattered. So not a good thing to happen. But as they land, we then, we come up on the next scene where they're actually on the planet's surface. They're in the desert, which is actually

P.W. Gillibrand Company Rock and Gravel Quarry in Soled Canyon, north of Los Angeles. It looks like a really steep incline, the grade that you guys were walking on. Like, Mark, like if you didn't pay attention and you stepped wrong, you would tumble down to the bottom probably. Yeah? Okay. Right. It was a great shot. LeVar and the location manager, it was really quite compelling to watch

the two of you nearly slipping down the slope oh it was really quick but i did care for you mark at that moment i thought he's in all that makeup and in that costume and he's out in the sun oh that had to be hot mark that had to be hard well like i said it was 115 degrees oh wow and they were very aware of that so as soon as we were finished with our scene they roughed us into a trailer air condition they have to they have to or else you're going to you're going to get heat stroke if you stay out there Oh, man, it was hot. You were telling us about your wig before. Tell us, how did your wig feel under all that song?

Oh, terrible. It just, it's just like crazy. There was only one scene, Mark, where I felt like I saw the heat on Nana. She was very sweaty, and I saw it a little bit on your wig kind of gathering back there. But otherwise, I kept looking because it looked hot. I didn't know it was 115. That's even hotter than I expected. I kept looking at your makeup and thinking,

how is that makeup staying on his face? It must be so hot. Do you remember? Was that tricky out there in the heat? I thought of the same thing. How am I going to get through this without this stuff melting? But it never became an issue. Wow.

Wow. Yeah, it looked really good. Like I said, except for one, there was one scene where I could see you guys sweating a bit. But otherwise, you look very, very, very, good. Now, we're not lucky. I have to bring up a quam here while watching this episode. This is my biggest quam. It's a small one. It's a very small

one. It was a quam. Nanah looks more gorgeous in this. Her lipstick was perfect. Eye shadow was perfect. She looks like she just stepped out off of a red carpet. And I'm thinking about you and all that stuff. I'm thinking,

why does she look, why does the character, not Nana, but why does Kira look so put together. And throughout the episode, her lipstick is perfect. She goes through all this stuff and I go, what were the makeup people thinking? And what was LeVar thinking

that he needed to keep her in pristine condition? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. That's a very good point. I do like DeKat's line after Kira says, only a Cardassian would call this hellhole invigorating. DeKat says, oh, I forgot. Compared to us, you Bajorans are a bit fragile. Physiological

Technically speaking, of course, which is just such a little beautiful cut. It's sort of like, I'm not talking about mentally, but maybe I am. You don't know. So I loved it. They hiked through the sand, and then we cut to a wide shot as they come over a ridge. And that was a visual effect shot, clearly, because you could see the whole planet and everything. But they discover the wreckage of the Ravanaugh. Did they bring pieces of that ship out there?

Were you, like, did they set up a whole, you know, damaged ship? do you remember? Pretty sure. Yeah. It looked great. The visual effect shot looked great and the way they built it into the sand dune. That was quite impressive. I was really impressed with that.

Yeah. It felt very cinematic, like a big movie, you know. It looked expensive this episode. It looked good. So you like the Viz Effects, Robbie? You liked that shot? Yeah. Yeah, it was beautiful.

We go to Quarks Cafe next. We see Dax and Bashir giving Cisco some advice. They're teasing him about a big step or a very big step so again they start the scene talking about that and Cisco's just in his head he's kind of listening to them debate what he should do quark shows up to give him some faranky advice basically quark's advice is women are the enemy and so you know what does he say you have to treat them accordingly the keys never let them get the upper hand. If she says she doesn't see you enough, then threaten to see her even less. If she wants

more gifts, then take back the gifts you already gave her. All about control. That's Quark's advice. And that, ladies and gentlemen, was my residual scene. That's right. Give Armand something so he gets a residual. I love Quark's final line. Dax says, well, what if your woman leaves you? Quirk says, that's what Hollisweets are for. And then walks away. It's like, oh, gosh. Okay. yeah that was a it's good that was your residual scene exactly yeah yeah but it's nice to be reminded of Ferengi's you know romantic advice there yeah there you go I liked I liked when he showed up there Armin I would have liked more episodes where I could have proved that either to be true or false mm-hmm yes that's true yes we jump back to the planet we're at the crash site

they're doing a little bit more investigation they come across these graves these are 12 graves. They're marked by stones. And my first thought was, man, they must have searched for probably like 10 or 15 square miles to get enough stones to put down on the ground here, because there's a lot of stones there in the midst of nothing. But we do realize that they do have to check the identity of these deceased to see who's there. But this is when Descott says, no, no, no, I need you to go away, Kira, because Kardashians have certain funeral rights that we have to observe. were very strict about it, and it would be very dishonorable for a non-Cardassian to review the remains of a Cardassian. So can you please just head back over the ridge? Just turn around.

Don't look, you know. I'm not sure if that was because Dakot's just saying that to get her away to see if he can find his beloved or if he, if that's truly a funeral right that Cardassians have. I believe it was how they felt, how Cadetians felt. That makes sense. Yes, yes, it does. And either way, it's a tribute to Mark that we don't know for sure. He leaves it nebulous so that we can think it's a credit to Mark as the actor and leaving us thinking. Great point. Great point. I like that.

I wanted to comment on that opening shot, the down angle that was on a crane. You like that. When they're investigating the crash site and then it comes over the top to see the grave from a down angle where it high. yeah it was beautifully shot and also um i i would imagine i'm only guessing because you said they they filmed this at a quarry that the down angle kept all of the quarry out of the shot but still felt like a big wide shot so it was a very creative and smart way to to tell that story without seeing without having to do visual effects shots or match shots or things like that you avoid all the quarry around you and you just looked down at the sand it was really smart very well done and mark

if i may ask do you remember and i know it's many years ago and i certainly have problems when i'm asked this question but how many days were you on that in that quarry just one day just the one day wow okay yeah that's a busy day we got a lot time we never did more than one take as i remember because it was too damn hot yeah no I was always, I was always prepared. Ah, okay. I mean, I was ready to go all the time. There were some scripts that were pages and pages.

Right. And it was one take. Wow. And I'm sure they were very happy about that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure. You're a popular actor when you become one take actor. That's for sure.

Yeah. They love you. So basically, when Kira leaves, she kind of heads back into the wreckage of the Ravenock because she wants to go onto their database to see if she can find what's been going on, what happened exactly. They did see some phaser fires, so they realized that there was some, someone attacked them, clearly. Yeah, she gets the computer back online inside the ship. Then we come back outside and we see Dukot digging up some of the graves and he discovers an earring. He discovers a bracelet. He sits down looking at the bracelet, puts it around his wrist. Really wonderful

an emotional moment, an unexpected moment with Dukat there. Yeah. A moment without any dialogue as well, that is so powerful. It's so arresting that even Kira, when she walks out and sees him sitting on the ground like that, she recognizes how emotional that something's up. It allows the Kira character to realize that there's more to this character of Dukat than she had thought of before, which is the whole episode is about that. There's more to other people than perhaps you first thought.

It's very moving, and it's part of the continuum of the relationship between Dukot and Kira. We could have started the show on fire, she and I, if they saw a way to have them fall in love in spite of themselves. I always thought they missed that. Well, they give you a substitute for that. I can't say much more because these guys haven't seen that episode yet. But they give you a substitute later on in the. in the future on in the season or the next season, which Mark and I know what we're talking about.

The viewers probably know what we're talking about, but we don't. We haven't seen it yet. I'm going to keep it a secret from you. Thank you. Thank you. I love this moment. It's a really memorable and iconic moment, Mark,

when you're sitting down and just experiencing the feelings that DuCott's having here. It's very vulnerable. It's really wonderful. It's wonderful. It was wonderful. So I loved those knowledge. Well, Kira sees him. She asks what was her name.

She sees the bracelet that he's trying on. She says that was a pledge bracelet. She recognizes it. So she knows that that was a romantic symbol. And we learn her name was Tora Niprem and that he was in love with her. And he says, I don't want to talk about it, though. I don't want to talk about this anymore. Then Kira shares that she found out they were attacked by a couple of ships.

I'm not sure who it was. She uses her. tricorder, though, to look for a bejoran implant signals because I guess the bejurans implanted something if they were taken prisoner that would signal

the rescuers how to find them. So that's what she's looking for. Yeah, it leaves a trail of isotope. It's like dog chips. You put a chip in a dog. Yes. A subdermal dog chip, butjorans have subdermal pejorin chips in them. Yes. She does pick up some isotopes and

And she says, I think I found something this way, and off they go in 115 degrees. It's a while to hike over to where they have to go to. Night has fallen. So now they're kind of in this little cave complex that they found, their little campsite for the night. And this is where Duccott is trying to sit down on a rock and ends up sitting down on a shard, like a stalagmite or a stalactite. I don't know which one goes up.

But clearly something has entered his Gluteus Maximus. Yes. Okay, so he's got a shard in his butt is basically what happens. And then just the staging of how LeVar Burton shot this, especially with... Very funny. It honestly looks like the non-visitor is

Descartes personal general practitioner, his doctor, and doing some type of anal cavity search right there, which is like, what the heck? Oh, my gosh. It's very funny. I like you bouncing because from the pain, you were like... You're bouncing for the pain, yeah.

gonna pull it out it was very very well done it was strong oh yeah it was huge yeah but also mark when you threw the thing after she pulls it out of your butt and you throw it it makes a clunk sound like it's made of metal or something it's like good lord it's like that must have been painful but she hands she hands to cot a dermal regenerator which he starts waving all around her butt so not his butt excuse me he's waving it waving it around the injury and that's when Kira loses it. Just from watching it, all she sees... She's hysterical.

Yeah, she's in hysterics just watching him shimmy around with his butt, like, facing Kira, at which point, Dukk calls her out on it. He's like, this isn't funny, but then he realizes the absurdity of the situation. He starts laughing his butt off. And now we have the first moment...

You said laughing his butt off, huh? Yes, I did, yes. But it's the first moment of levity between these two characters. It's almost like, what the heck? It took that to cause this to happen. And then that further moment where Descartes says, and the worst part is, this thing doesn't even work.

And she's like, you need to turn it on. Turn it on. But they are laughing so much. And you know what? It's tough as actors to come up with real laughter in a scene, you know what I'm saying? Always been the hardest thing for me. Yes. Yeah.

To laugh. Yeah, but you did it in this one, though. You did it in this one, though. my friend. It worked all right. Oh yeah. We believed you. We believed you. It helps the authenticity of your performance and Nana's performance with the laughter and stuff. Yes, it's funny and it's good comedy and silly, but it builds the bonds of these characters in a great way. That's really important for the story. Without this, this isn't just extraneous jokes or comedy. It's building this relationship in a way that really needs to happen. So I thought it was great. Yeah.

Yeah. After the laughter subsides, this is when Kira asked Dakot who Tora Ziyal is. And this is when Dakot is trying a little bit to, you know, put Kira on the wrong course by saying, would you believe it's Torah Niprem's sister? And Kira was like, nope. Zial is a Kardashian name. That's a 13-year-old on the database I checked out in the transport. clearly this is not the sister I don't believe it and that's when Dakot doesn't really fight that you know and he just kidding he's like nope

it's my daughter planned and simple I let it out and I also feel like that came out easier for Dakot because of the laughter he shared with with Kira he's they're almost you know in a buddy like state at this point it's so strange and nice and wonderful to see this though at the same time yeah

and Navarre was very smart to get very close onto Mark's face so that we could really see what was happening in his soul through his eyes it was a very good shot and a combination of a good choice of lenses as well as the performance by Mark

agreed well the scene ends with a bit of a shocker because he admits it's his daughter but Kira says well great if we can find her and she's alive then you can rescue her and he says no if I find her I'm going to have to kill

that's the end of the sea it's like wait what Marks any comments I'm sitting down on the on the little spike in your butt this entire scene did you want to share it with us anything any memories I mean I think that's as close as they ever got to two of them

yeah and it's unfortunate that like I said it could have it could have grown so much more yes yeah because they began to trust each other in that scene

walls that have been built up everything they let it down especially for her yes because she really hated him and then that all started to come about

and she displayed all these warmer emotions and she began to see that he's not as terrible as she thought he was it gives her an opportunity to show

a soft side that Kira doesn't always get an opportunity to show where she can forgive her enemies to forgive the people that did her and her people wrong. Not necessarily you, Mark, but certainly the occupation was hard on the Bajorans. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you understood why she was so angry. We're back in the desert. It's the next day. We're on the march. on the march on the move this is the scene mark the only scene where i saw the heat i did see you guys sweating as you're hiking along and talking it's a long scene yeah uh basically kira says you don't

have to kill your daughter you don't have to do this and he says no i have to because i've got a wife and seven children and my career i'm you know is is is very unstable with everything happening in in Cardassia, so I can't, I can't let this get out. I can't let people know what happened here. Here is not happy at all. Kira is not happy because all she sees is you're basically tying up a loose end. This is your daughter. So she's flipping out in this scene.

Aptly so, though. She should be. And she brings up the fact that she sees how much he loved Niprem. She saw you crying by the, graves. She saw how upset you were. And his response is yes. And I will I will weep at Zayal's grave as well. But you're very threatening at the very end of the scene. You say to her, I suggest you stay out of my way. Right. So a lot of a real passionate debate here between the two of you in the middle of 115 degree heat and walking into all that. Yeah. I just like

way that's written too and when the time comes i suggest you stay out of my way it wasn't like stay out of my way care i just just it still has that charm and panache i suggest you stay out of my way well that's the writers having watched dailies with mark and in previous episodes going this is the way mark olima would say it exactly so it's on cruise control arman it's on cruise control now yeah i'll also say this is a long scene and more uh props to levar for how he staged and directed the scene because it's mostly a walk-and-talk. This scene is a walk-and-talk with two moments of coverage in the reverse direction. So he was able to do a long scene, not have it feel static, have it feel energized and on the

move, but he did it with one shot in one direction and then two pieces of coverage in the reverse to complete the whole scene. So it was very efficient, very well, well, you know, his strategy was very smart. we go to Cisco's quarters next. Jake is having some breakfast. Cisco comes in. It's a huge breakfast, by the way. My God.

He's a growing boy. He's clearly, he's grown a lot. It's like props said, okay, give him everything we've gone on crap service. Yeah. Toast and eggs and fruit and oatmeal and potatoes. I just love the way he played this scene. I mean, honestly, this is probably my favorite B-story scene right here with Jake.

and how calm he is and how he relates all this information to his father about how badly he screwed up and how he and Nog has been talking to him about what to do and then he and Nog have been discussing and debating this and all these and he's through that this whole scene

Sarac Loften is just it's perfect it's just I just he's very relaxed so relaxed oh yeah yeah and this is the one point where now it's the son

kind of teaching the father you know like listen to me dad you are not seeing this clearly. So this is a moment of maturity. This is a moment of development. This is a moment of him becoming a young man, I feel. I love this scene. Yeah. It's really good. I like to the very end because he says, he says, well, that's what Nagin and I think you should do. And Cisco's like, are you going to tell her? Are you going to tell Cassidy? And he goes, no, we talked about it. You should tell her. He leaves. And that's where Cisco's like, he had some look on his face,

Avery. Oh, because at the end, Sisko's, because Cisco, goes, I see, and Jake says, so what's new with you? And then that's the look. That prompted the look because Jake says, so what's new with you? Just such a great, great tag. Yeah, I love it. I did not like that

tagline. Really? I did not because it was a really wonderful scene and to make a little gag at the end. So what's new with you? I thought, really, you've just undercut everything you've just done. And what they've just done, both the writers and the actors and the directors and the

director was really quite wonderful as you all said yeah and then just to end it so what's new with you just seemed like it felt insincere it's yeah it just was the wrong moment that's a valid point armond well we're back on a a mountain top with ducotte and kira they have found what they were looking for there's a mine shaft there's some uh humanoids uh that are wearing body armor and there's workers bringing wagons inside. So there's a mine here. Yeah. I particularly liked the skinny binoculars.

You like those? You liked those lot? Yeah. I liked the prop. It looked like the Vars visor modulated to be binoculars. It did. I didn't even make that connection. Do you think props did that on purpose?

Is that possible? Just as like, you know, an homage to LeVar Burton like, hey, dude, we're going to make these props look kind of like your visor, but modified. Possibly. You're right, though. That's exactly what it looks like. It's a great point. The skinny binoculars were great.

And their brein are there. They talk about the brein. What are they doing here? Well, their planets are frozen wasteland, so they need dilithium. So they're forcing these people, these prisoners to mine the dilythium for them. They do see Ducotte's daughter at the very end of this. seen yeah wait wait wait yes i don't know if they see ducotte's daughter i think the really good point is that mark sees his daughter mark descott sees his daughter yes and the reaction that mark

gives on seeing his daughter for the first time in years is really quite wonderful that's an award winning shot it was if it was if george k was here he would say it was glorious it was delicious Absolutely. Wonderful. It was good. It was so good. It was. And a really strong emotional act out there. Mark, your performance was great.

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She actually says, she says, Descartes, you go back to DS9 and get reinforcements. I'll stay here and watch what's going on. And Descartes's like, I ain't going anywhere. I'm staying right here. And I'm going to, you know, you can put me up, you can write a report on me, whatever you want to do, but I'm not leaving.

So that's what happened on that way. Yeah, he refuses. She's not going to leave him alone. So they both are kind of digging in their heels here. Yeah. And they decided. to stay and try to rescue them by themselves. Well, did you, were you taken aback by Curia's line, Robbie, at the end when he's,

when she says, maybe I do. But if you hurt that girl, I promise, I'll kill you. Like, it was very pointed and it just, it, I still conflict with them. Oh, gosh, they might laugh over the butt cheek thing, but, but they still, that was yesterday. Yeah, that was yesterday. Yeah, that was yesterday. Yeah, that was yesterday. You're right.

It's passed. They go inside the mine. Somehow, when we cut inside the mine, two Breen walk up, basically, attack the other Breen. One of them opens up their helmet. It's Kira. So somehow Kira and Dukot got the Breen wardrobe from the guys outside, I guess. They took them down first. So they're already mid-rescue here.

They try to rescue their prisoners. Kira asks one of the Bajorans, if her friend is alive, Loret Akram, and she learns that he's dead. He died from a cave in. So he was, he survived the crash, but while mining the cave collapsed on him, which is, you know, that's, what a cop out. What a bum, bum way to die or a boy to die. Yep. So she gets her answer about her friend. Dukot asks about the girl, asked the boy, and Kira says, don't tell him a thing.

Don't say. Before we go any further. Yes. yes kudos and i wish i knew the actor's name i should who had who was the co-star who was the pejoran prisoner that kira is talking yeah he has he has a moment it's very fleeting but i was really telling he says the occupation is over oh yeah oh right i was really moved by that reading yeah that was thomas priscoe as heller that's the guy that's the pejoran there with that great reading and a lot of let's face it arman with co-stars sometimes when you're that under five it's

very difficult to pull off you know a very important point nuanced yeah moment and i thought he hit it out of the park i i was really moved by that reading yeah he was great he was great a firefight breaks out basically there's a firefight between uh the breen who are rushing in and uh kira ducotte runs he takes off he takes off he takes takes off deeper in the caves to find his daughter. Kira stays after the firefight, good guys win. And Kira tells the prisoners to gather up everybody, meet him by the mouth of the cave for the rescue.

So they're trying to get everybody out of there. And then she runs after Dakot. Doesn't she track Dakot leaving? Yeah. Yeah. She says, meet me out there. So sends them off to the entrance of the mine. And she's going to go find Duccott.

And we see. see Duccott stepping up behind a brein who's guarding something and knocks the brain out you knock him out pretty good you knock him out so good that when you ask him where's Tora Zial he's out you don't even get the answer from him he's no help you hit him too hard so why did they need reinforcements these guys are the eight you know the 18 yeah yeah they don't need anybody clearly that's a flaw for me in this episode. They're able to take out a whole company of Brune.

Yeah, I mean, when we first see the Brin, they've got rifles. They're obviously looking to see if there's any trouble. They're on patrol. Granted, it's surprised that they can get the first two, but don't they communicate? That doesn't, that's when I, that sort of jumped the shark for me. Yeah. It doesn't ruin the episode by any means, but I was like, that really should have. It felt like they skipped over.

Yeah, they skipped over. It bothered me a little bit that they just show up and they've already taken out some Breen and we don't know how they did it. It would have been nice to hear a really smart strategy, even if we didn't have to see all of it, if they just said, hey, I know how we can do this, the two of us or some strategy or see some of it. Yeah. Armin, for as powerful as the Breen are, one of their biggest, you know, fallings or shortcomings is the fact that they just don't communicate that well. They don't. Okay. They have these fancy helmets. They have these great helmets, but they just, it's just, yeah, they look much better than

they are. They're not very functional. And is it nice that they have the helmets, therefore we don't have to spend lots of money on their makeup? Yes. There you go. I also think it was very nice of them that they had, you know, outfits that fit perfectly, Kira and Dukot. The sizes were just what we needed. And when Kira takes her helmet off, also, qualm from me but when when she takes she has this cowl over her head and I thought what is that about where where did the cowl come from yeah if you remember it's just a it looks like something out of dune where did that come from well from the person they knocked out they took the cowl off of that her person's the undergarment yeah something that's invisible so if you're not going to take

the helmet off why do you need the cowl yeah yeah I'm just nitpicking that's fine that's fine that's Fine. We need some nitpicking. All right. But Dukkah finally finds his daughter. He's down at the end of a cave, filling up some water from a well. She's overjoyed to see you. Yeah. You know, she talks about how she's waited. She's dreamed of this day.

She doesn't really say that off the very first thing that happens is he says her name. She turns around. She's totally excited. Father, it's really you. Mother said you'd, and I wonder what Mark would. think would be the rest of the line. Oh, yeah. What did Mother say?

Mother said you'd, I think it was, Mother said you'd never come back to try to find this, is what I thought it was going to say, okay? And that's when Descartes points his weapon at his daughter. And that's when, give it up for Sia Batton, she played that moment really, really well. It was very, very emotional for me for her realization that, oh, mother was right, you know, you are, you don't care about us or something like that, or you weren't going to come back. you're just here to tie up a loose end kind of a thing, you know, Father, what's wrong? You know, that's when Kira shows up with her weapon trained on Dakot saying,

don't do this, don't do this. But a very, very emotional scene, though, for me to watch this, for sure. Yeah, Kira's telling her to run. Yeah, yeah, get out of here. She won't run. Yeah. She eventually says, you know, I'm not going to run. If I can't be with you, I'd rather die.

That's when she says, I used to dream about you coming to save me. that's what kept me alive really powerful scene very much so because she steps towards you she's like go ahead if you're going to shoot me dad this is the time to do it yeah right there yeah oh my god

so my question arises is not the nitpick just a question why did they replace her I know good question I went to IMDB to look up Sia's credits yeah and she pretty much stopped acting

a couple years after this. So maybe it was just a career that she didn't want to follow anymore. Oh, interesting. Any comments, Mark, regarding this final scene with your daughter? I loved all the moments in that script.

I loved playing the drama of it. I had a daughter very similar in age. We had a very fractured relationship. So I can relate very well to his feelings. for his daughter yeah it was it came naturally so I really enjoyed that yeah it's a great

scene you and seea both did great work in the scene ending with the cut saying let's go home dropping his weapon embracing his daughter was yeah so moving yeah nice well we go to cargo bay next we see Cisco comes in Cassidy's very busy packing some stuff he tells he comes in to talk to her to tell her that she should take the job he applies He apologizes to her. He says he was really nervous when she started bringing this up. And he says, I haven't been in a serious relationship in a long time. And he's also nervous because of his job, because his job got Jennifer, his wife, killed.

And he doesn't want to, you know, worry about getting Cassidy killed as well or in danger in any way. And she very, very confidently says, let me worry about that, which I liked. Which is what Jake and Nog said, too. Yep, exactly. I like how Cassidy calls Jake's smart boy throughout this a lot. Smart boy. I can just see a T-shirt with, you know, Jake Sisko and a little caption, Smart Boy underneath.

Doesn't she say something like, oh, he's a smart boy? He must have gotten that from his mom. Yes. Not you, but mom. Yes. And I was rather impressed what the, gave Avery to do which was to look at himself and realize that

not Avery but just go to look at himself and realize his shortcomings I thought that's that's different that's stellar Deep Space Nine work because Picard would never do that Kurt would never do that this

is how our writers were changing the style and format and design of Star Trek that the captains were flawed and and found it difficult to find the shortcomings in themselves. But they could do it, but they could do it. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we have the final, final scene in the promenade on the upper level. Dax is with Kira, and Dax asked about how, what was it like, Kira, spending all that time alone with Dekot? And Kira says, you know, I've had better weeks, but I'll never forget the look on his face when he sat on that sand spine. Dax says, I wish I'd been there. And again, like I said earlier, Descott just.

kind of walks in right off camera, magically appears, and says, Major, and I'm sitting here going, he would have heard everything. He was that close. So, yeah, it's another one of those random, weird geography things. Yeah, pop-ins. Yeah, pop-ins that happens. So, Kira asked about where Zial

is. Ducats says, well, she's waiting aboard my ship. We'll be leaving for Cardassia very shortly. This is when Dax takes her leave. Dax leaves the two of them alone. They finish talking. And basically Descartes says, after six years, She deserves a home and a father.

Kira says, well, won't that make that? Kira says, won't that make things difficult for you? In Dakot, in Dakot fashion, in Mr. Alamo fashion, says, I'll let you know with the very just, I'm sitting and going, what does, what does that mean? The way you said, I'll let you know is not, it wasn't sort of like a, you know, a Brady bunch ending where I'll let you know. It wasn't that. It was a very ominous, I'll let you know to me. So, and again, your credit, that's the way he played it.

He wants you guessing what it's going to be. Mike has told us that over and over again. So thank you, sir, for that. And, Mark, did they tell you where the arc of the character was going to go? They probably didn't. No. No, of course. No, they never told me anything.

No, they never told any of us anything, Mark. No. You weren't alone. But the writers must have had an inkling about what was going to happen because of this, and without giving too much away, we do get told of what happens later on. I think they gradually trusted me. I think in the beginning, I was on probation.

Could have gone either way. Because the actor who originally was going to play Dukat was one of my dear friends. And in the first scene, he called. couldn't pull it off because it was very kind of Shakespearean. And he didn't have that kind of deliverance. And that's what they brought me in and I got the part. Who was that actor that was supposed to play Dakot in the beginning

and that they didn't use? The name was Michael McCray. Michael McCray. Michael McCray. Yeah. That's funny. It was another Mike who was slated to do that. Two mics.

Yeah. All right. The DeKopp character is going to have a wonderful arc. and this is the beginning of that arc. I love it. We love it. I love it. Yeah. And I think they've laid such a great foundation, you know, for your character that there's so many possibilities of where, you know, this character could go. So I'm excited to see what they did with that.

Let's talk about our lesson that we're going to learn. What's the lesson or moral of this episode, Robbie, what was yours that you got from Indiscretion? The lesson I got from this episode, my takeaway is sometimes you can learn an important lesson from the most unexpected place. Okay. To be open to new ideas, new experiences from unexpected places, because that may be just what you need to hear. Got it. Armand, what is your lesson? A person should never put their ambitions or fears.

above their family. Again, it's like peeling an onion. That's how I felt about the whole thing, is that you got to see aspects of the character that weren't expected. And that's what I like about it. Nice. Yeah.

Yeah. My, I guess my lesson initially, I had written down family means everything, but I'm going to change mine. Mine is more about people are people. People are people. Even people that you consider your enemies are more than just two-dimensional. There's three dimensions to every person.

And that is what a lot of people forget. So you need to make sure that you see people for who they are, that they are people too and not just someone to kibosh you or you're thinking they're kiboshing you. is always good in every person. Okay, our Patreon poll winner for the themes less and more of this episode as submitted by Faroza Meta is

reckoning with the past, whether through seeking justice or accepting personal responsibility, is the only path to integrity, even when it comes at a great personal cost. It's like the sand spike. It's painful. It's embedded within you.

But you've got to take it out and begin to heal. wow feroza that's frozen yeah my god she got descriptive yeah nailed it thank you for elaborating

woo we love it well that's the end of our podcast and discussion of the episode in discretion we want to first of all thank Mark Alamo for being here

thank you so much it's an absolute treat having you with us sir well thank you so much so nice yeah thank you you're welcome I really appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you for the episode. Thank you for the great work. Yes, thank you for the great work. You're so welcome this. Join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode Rejoined. And that will be with Terry joining us.

Thank you again, Armin, for joining us for this episode. Pleasure. Recap, yep. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for our bonus material with a little bit more of Mark Alimo and Armin, of course. I don't know. I'm going to be able to

I'm going to be B. B. B. B. B. B. B.

B. B. B. B. B. B. B. B.

Thank you. Thank you.