The Delta Flyers - Jeffrey Combs

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

The Delta Flyers is a weekly podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. This week’s episode is an interview with Jeffrey Combs.WARNING: The following content contains some sensitive discussion related to death that some listeners may find distressing. We understand that the topic of death can be emotional and personal, and we urge you to exercise your discretion before listening. We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, Brannon Braga, Bryan Fuller, John Espinosa, & Ariana DelbarAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, E, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey, Lori Tharpe, Mary Burch, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Roxane Ray, Daniel O’Brien, Bronwen Duffield, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Michael Dismuke, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Mars DeVore, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, & Matt BurchAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Nikita Jane, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Species 2571, Mary O'Neal, Dat Cao, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Tara Polen, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Jennifer Jelf, Louise Storer, Justin Weir, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Aaron Ogitis, Ryan Benoit, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Captain Jak Greymoon, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Cindy Holland, Will Forg, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Christian Koch, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Shane Pike, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Akash Patel, Jennifer Vaughn, Cameron Wilkins, Michael Butler, Ken McCleskey, Walkerius Logos, Abby Chavez, Preston Meyer, Amanda Faville, Lisa Hill, Benjamin Bulfer, Stacy Davis, & Mary JenkinsThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to yet another episode of the Delta Flyers with Robbie McNeil and myself. And this week, our special guest is our good friend, Jeffrey Combs, the very talented Jeffrey Combs. Welcome, Jeff. How are you? I am great. It's a very hot day here, but I'm really happy to talk to you two friends of mine. You know, we never work together, you guys. I know. We never did. I want to work with you, Jeff.

I really do. I don't understand. Let's just start right now where it all began for Jeffrey Allen Combs, which was Oxnard, California. What was it like, Oxnard in 1950s? What was that like? I mean, I'm just, it was it sparse? Was it kind of, I don't know? Well, you know, a lot of the West Coast is dotted with agricultural.

Yeah. Which Oxnard was, not that my family was in agriculture, and like military, aerospace, there were jobs there, like civil servant jobs, Point Magoo is there. So my parents were from the Ozarks, and they came to California, like a lot of people did post-World War II and started, you know, had jobs and started a family. And so that's why I was kind of born in Roxnard. My dad was actually working at the time on one of the islands, the Channel Islands. Oh, wow. For the military, although he was a civilian, and he would be stationed out there for like, you know, three or four days and then take the boat in and be home for three or four days. So that was his gig.

So we lived in Oxnard. So, okay, that's why you were in that seaside community, Oxnard. And your father was a civilian contractor for the military. Out of contract, your civilian, civilian, civil servant. Civil servant. So he was an employee. Civilians that worked for the government. Right.

He's a government employee that happened to be in the military side of it. Exactly. Okay. And just so everybody knows where Oxnard is. Oxnard is just a little north of Los Angeles and Malibu and stuff. It's along the coast. It's north of Los Angeles, but it's south of Ventura or Santa Barbara. Or Santa Barbara.

Exactly. Yeah. Right in the middle of that area. It's all called the Central Coast. Yeah, Central Coast, but let's give it more context. If you're buying real estate in Malibu, very expensive. If you're buying Seaside Real Estate in Santa Barbara, very expensive. Oxnard, you could get something, you could get much more for your money.

The dream could still be alive. It could still be alive in Oxnard. Very family-oriented, like you said. I like Oxnard, personally. There's still a lot of farms out there. I was watching an old Johnny Carson, and he was doing Carnac. Carnac, the great, yes. He pulls out the envelope and he goes, Oxnard.

Did he really? he did that he said oxnard and ed goes oxnard and he gives him a look and blows the thing and opens it and he said what's the least desirable part of an ox actually oxnard's name after a man is the if you're from L.A. there's some huge long boulevard in the valley called Oxnard Street oh that's a that's a that's a last name of somebody right is that what you're saying okay mr mr oxnard it's a beautiful last name yeah somebody uh but uh he was a beat beat farmer oh my god wow did not know when when we talk about oxnard my mind goes to this there's some there's some other communities around oxnard there's uh camerio there's san paula my sister lives in canam camerio san paula more park more high out there oh hi yes But I always think of

in Santa Paula there's a small airport where Steve McQueen used to keep a hanger and he would leave Hollywood when he was on a TV star before he became a movie star Oh my God

he'd go up there on the weekends and he would fly airplanes he had his motorcycles and cars that he raced in Santa Paula that's all around that Oxnard area It was his toy play area and it was amazing

And it was country back then, and he could go riding his dirt bikes up in the hills. And, yeah. So Steve McQueen's personal playground back in the day was Oxnard. It was just in Santa Paula, just in Santa Paula. It's kind of near Oxnard. It's the area. Wow. Anyway, I didn't live very long in Oxnard.

Okay. So give us, yeah, bring us up today. Where'd you go from Oxnard to where? Well, honestly, guys, I don't remember much about my young, young childhood. I mean, who does? but I think mine was compounded by the fact that I didn't see very well. Oh. So I don't have very, I didn't know that.

Yeah. You don't know that you can't focus on things when you can't, when you have no. No context, really, yeah. I've always been befuddled when my parents didn't see that I couldn't see. I do remember often being told, Jeff, watch where you're going. well, you know, it would have been good, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe an eye exam would have been seen. So that was in second grade where that came up. But anyway. But to your parents credit, you're one of nine kids. So maybe you got lost in the shuffle. Definitely. In the order of

nine, where are you? It's complicated. Sort of, we're a blended family early. My mom was married once before and had two kids, my older brother and my older sister. And my dad was married once before and had an older sister. So then they got together and had one, two, three, four, five, six kids, but two of them didn't survive. Oh, sorry to hear that. Okay. And where are you? I'm the youngest boy and I have two younger sisters. Okay. Yeah. And these are full, uh, the younger sisters are 100% your blood sister. One of my older brothers. In our family, we never made those delineations of like, well, you're half.

From that. You never said that. It's just your brothers. Understood. I have a question, though, to go back to two of the children in your family didn't survive, that's got to be a profound experience. Do you remember that? Remember one.

Can you talk about that? The first one was really sort of tragic in that. before I was born, my mom was pregnant and my, a lot of tragedy in life. My dad's brother was killed in World War II. And they had a program after the war of we will disinter the remains in Europe and free of charge, if you wish, bring them back so that they can be buried in the family graveyard. you can be near them. Yeah.

I mean, that's just really touching, you know. Yeah. And so that's what my grandparents opt to do. And mind you, this is like three, four years, maybe five years after the war. Right. So my dad, we were living in California, and my dad insisted that they drive back. And mind you, this is probably 49, 48. You know what I mean?

for the re-barial of his brother and my mom was pregnant and she didn't really want to go but he really wanted to represent in every way for his so she had a miscarriage when they got to Arkansas

oh wow man wow a lot of heaviness layered upon one thing a layered upon another there that sounds like a lot for them that's a lot that's a lot cut ahead to my younger i had a younger brother joey and he didn't live very long he grew he was born with a lot of problems my mom was way too old to have another child i think she was 45 and in those days in the 60s yeah it's like less less hopeful than it is now right yeah uh he was born down

syndrome and with some real bad heart conditions and so he struggled along for uh six eight months and passed away now was the fifth grade and that really ripped a veneer off my reality a little bit you know yeah yeah seeing my my parents grieve yeah as they did wow so it did make a deep imprint that life is snatched like that yeah yeah absolutely well thank you first of all for sharing so openly about those very sensitive things because they're important and i remember being very touched by all my class and they gave me a card and they all signed it you know when i came back from uh the break to go through the funeral and all that stuff yeah but it's it's just as you said you were in fifth grade at the time. So you don't really have, you're still a child yourself.

You're not, you don't have the wherewithal to process a death of a family member at that, at that age. And to watch your parents grieve, that must have been just scary as all. I mean, that must have also impacted you. Yeah, in a way. Well, it was, I had never seen my father, uh, breakdown like that before. Yeah. Yeah. It's, and it's rough when you, and the first time anybody sees their dad cry. It's just like, it moves you and pulls your heartstrings and moves you in a way that you've never been moved before. And also some really ghoulish things sort of happen. My aunt, my dad's sister at the viewing at the mortuary, you know.

Yeah. I did not want to go up and see my. Of course. I get that. I'm not a fan of those situations. So I'm on the other side of the room sitting there. And she came up and insisted to continue. You just have to come and see your brother.

And, you know, so on top of the trauma is this insistence that you, you know, do something you don't want to do like that. Did you ever talk to Cape Mulgrew? Have you ever had a conversation with her about these things? Because I know in her family, there were some siblings that were lost as well. And I know it had a deep impact on her life and her family relationships. I'd like to have a conversation with her. Honestly, her first day on your show, I was in the same hair trailer with her for a little while,

but we were dealing with our, she was dealing with hair options. Yeah. The first day hair options for, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And I've written many an elevator with her. I had a nice conversation like that with Avery Brooks. but more about the

we lost our mothers around the same time. Or at least we lost our mothers. Yeah, yeah. Too early. And so, you know, he's a bit of an enigma, but I think that's sort of softened.

Yeah, for sure. A little bit. Yeah, I lost my mother very young. My mother was 39 when she passed away. Oh, that's far too young. Far too young. Yeah. That must have just devastated you.

Yeah. Yeah, I did. How old were you? I was 18? Oh, no, no. Or maybe I'd just turned 19. Yeah, I just turned 19. Robbie.

Yeah, 39 years old. That's just tragic. When you had that conversation with him, that was while you were filming on DS9 or afterwards at a convention? We were in the makeup trailer after shooting. Yeah. Got you. Getting out of makeup.

I have found with actors that there has to be an. empathy to play characters to put yourself in imaginary circumstances and feel feelings and have empathy i find with actors some of the greatest conversations in my life have been with other actors you know talking about things like this in a way that i think a lot of people are afraid to often resist kind of they don't change the subject or you know it is it is this stuff that pushes us around and forms us and for better or for ill, you know, to this day, it's, I'm sure you're the feel the same way, Robbie, my mother's not in my life. My mother was not there for my children.

Yeah, yeah. That's why it really, you know, you put this stuff away and you compartmentalize, and then I had kids and I was like, my mom, you'll never know. my kids will never know yeah i know i jeff i took my my grandmother who lived to her 90s and i was very close with my mom's mom she she was awesome and my grandmother passed away around 2003 or so something like that and my kids had all met my grandmother and knew that she was really important to me and when she passed away i flew back to north carolina for my grandmother's funeral and my daughter came with me my daughter was about 13 yeah about 13 or so

my daughter came with me to my grandmother's funeral and we went to the cemetery and did and it was very emotional and then after all of the services were done and we were just kind of taking some time by the graveside and my grandmother's buried next to her husband who had passed away and some other family members around yeah and i said to my daughter i said taylor you know you never met my mom grandma vicky you never met her and she's buried right here in the cemetery do you want to go see where my mom's buried and she said sure and taylor my daughter 13 she was like sure yeah let's go do that yeah dad that be good for you and you know we should do that and she seemed very lighthearted about it and anyway we walked over and i hadn't been there in a while so i had to kind of

look around and found it and then when i stood there with my daughter 13 years old and we're looking at it for a few seconds she suddenly burst into tears she burst like i don't know where it came from my cousins were not far away they'd walked over with us and she she said to me i've heard about your mom i've seen some photos there's not a lot of them because my mom didn't like her picture taken so there there wasn't a lot of reality that I ever had a mother to to my kids. But when my daughter stood there with me and saw her grandmother's name on a stone, you know, and I think that was really, it was hard, but it was really important for my daughter. I think it really meant a lot to her to be there.

It also brought it real to her. All of a sudden it wasn't a obtuse thing. It was. story, some history. Or granite reality and there it is. And what did I miss here? Yeah. Yeah. My dad is so great. What must his mother have been like? Yeah. Yeah.

I also feel like, you know, you're talking earlier, Jeffrey, about how, you know, it's so tough for you not to have your mom around to have seen, for your mom to have seen your children. But I will say this. I do believe that, you know, our. bag of bones that we have, that is our body, it is animated by something that I believe is energy and soul and it's still there. So when you say that she doesn't know, I'm going to disagree with you. I'm going to say your mom's spirit knows. She's senior kids. She's been there. She's next to you. On some cosmic level. On a different level, on a different plane of

existence, she knows. She could have guided them. She could have. Most definitely. And I don't know. Your mom, I do believe your mom is the guardian angel for your children and for you, basically. My mom was really a remarkable woman, and you want to talk about family tragedies. She is, I cannot imagine this. My mom is one of six sisters, like stepping stones. I think my mom's the second oldest. So their father, my grandfather, who I never met, was a truck driver. And in

1942, he was on a run and fell out of the truck and was killed. Leaving six seven daughters and a wife.

Yeah. Oh, my God. And all of my aunts are just the, they're all gone now, except for one. They were all just wonderful women. You know, all different and all just so loving. Yeah.

And in the face of all of that. Right. It sounds to me that, you know, one thing that comes to mind, Jeff, is, you know, you're, you come from a lot of large families. Well, when you're from the South, that stuff's not so happened sometimes. The thing about large families, and I didn't come from a large family. neither did I. The thing about large families that I see as an observer of them is there is so much love and so much support.

Amazing, yeah, just a tribe of people that are so deeply tied together in so many amazing ways. So it can bring all of these great gifts of love and connection and community. But when you've got numbers that size, it's also going to bring a lot of heartbreak. There's going to be. there's just one way or another eventually yeah since then i've lost my oldest brother and i've lost one of my younger sisters yeah so we are uh it's still visiting us yeah losses you know yeah part of it's the size and just the numbers you know i've got one sister and in a way i'm kind of glad like as long as we're good i don't have to deal with you know the 10 other that doesn't other people exactly

exactly it evens out though you have all that joy yeah exactly our Christmases were chaotic insane I can imagine I can imagine so Christmases were chaotic and insane let me bring this back around to acting your career and creativity and things like that was there any of that in your family was there creative people were there people that painted or wrote or dance or played music was any of that no no really not really oh i've heard that my my grandfather who who tragically died could play uh uh the you know like the guitar or a little like here he could do that yeah and i know that my grandfather on my dad's side was like a tenor in the I, you know, tenor voice, but musical to the point of having a career out of it

or anybody being an, any sort of artistic bent other than what, quilting and crocheting. Right, crafts or things like that, yeah. Crafts, but I had no one, no one. So where did it come from then? Where did this, where did it? Because you have been an incredibly. creative, your career is not just some TV shows and things, but it's been theater and movies. Was it grade school that play, or was it middle school play? What was it that

lured you into this? I was very lucky where I grew up. Let's just say that. I actually grew up in a town called Lompoch. Lampo. Yep. Uh-huh. I know where that is. Me too. My dad, civil servant, got a transferred to a job at Vanderburt Air Force Base, which is right outside of Lompoke. So near Lompoc is a town called Santa Maria. I know that too, yes. 20 miles up north. And I just was born at the right place at the right time. Because there was a, how do I say this?

It's so serendipitous. Before we moved to Lompok, we lived in San Maria. And we rented this house that was on a dead end. And there was a field. And I should play in that field for hours. So then we moved to Lompoc, and unbeknownst to me, that field was turned into a community college. That land was, we called it a junior college, but community college was there. And as luck would have it, a man, a visionary man, a true lover of theater and an entrepreneur of sorts,

was the drama department head. And he loved theater. And he did everything he could for theater. Now, I'm in sixth grade. I'm in Lompoc. One day, the teacher just says next week, sign this form, we're going on a field trip because we're going to go see a play.

Wow. And play. I don't even know shit So we get in buses And we go over to And this is before The big theater was ever built Yeah

To this little theater And I remember sitting third row center Just by luck Third Row Center And it was the children's production Of Emperor's New Clause Uh-huh The Emperor's New Clothes, okay

Yeah And I was like What is what's this they're having a blast here and this is a world and I didn't realize

it but it made a deep impression on me and then it went dormant until I took a drama class for an EZA junior you know elective it's an elective you know and girls there'll be girls it'll be easy that was at which college was that

that you took that in high school oh that was high school you took an elective of drama class all right i didn't even audition for the play okay i didn't do that i didn't want to do that and uh the teachers some days later said jeff could you stay after i was like oh shit and he said uh someone dropped out and i want you to do it and i went no were you a shy kid I don't know why I would get the impression you might have been a little bit shy an introvert

I was very hyper hyper because I'm born in September was right on the cusp of getting into like even kindergarten yeah but too you know I remember I have it here somewhere

but my kindergarten teacher said you know it might be good for Jeff to stay back a year oh because of your birthday yeah i'm a november birthday it was the same thing for me i'm early november and so it was like do we yeah and i ended up being the youngest i did start early and i was always a year behind everybody got their driver's license earlier not only just driver's licenses how about like puberty you're too you're oh you're so cute but you're not what they're looking for it but they're looking for the you know you're their little brother you're not they're not

their romantic option. Yeah, exactly. So it was kind of, I was always, I was just a late bloomer. I was always like behind the curve that everybody else was maturing at, you know? Yeah, yeah. And so, I shy, yeah, so I was probably pretty shy, but I was also pretty kinetic. Mm-hmm. You know, I couldn't stop fidgeting.

I didn't have the greatest attention spent a lot of, you know. Yeah. But by high school, you had figured out the glasses and the vision and things like that. So you were reading. Yeah, but I mean, that was another thing. When you do find out that you need glasses in second grade and they put these things on your face. And then everybody's calling you four eyes. And that really slams your spirit.

Yeah, definitely. Kids are ruthless. Not cool, cruel, but just sort of categorizing you right away. Oh, yeah, you know. So I was always called, like, you know, Ernie, you know, from my three sons, you know, the youngest one of the classes. That was even in Spanish class, it was like, oh, there's no Jeff in Spanish. How about Ernesto? It's like, Ernesto.

Because you look like, it's like, great, thanks, teach. Thanks, teach. So. So to pull you back in for the segue, what you were saying was there were somebody in a, in your drama class had a dropped out of the play. And your teacher has said, you need to fill in. I want you to do this part. I said, no. But they, him and a friend of mine who was playing the lead in this thing,

kind of cornered me for like 30 minutes and I finally relented and said, okay, fine. But I remember distinctly going home saying, why did I say yes? Yeah. You know what's funny, Jeff? I'm going to pause you in your story for saying, don't forget where you're at. I almost did the same thing. We had just moved to Atlanta. my little sister was taking tap or jazz class or ballet or whatever she was doing and my mom comes

home one day and says hey they're doing the wizard of Oz at the dance studio and they needed a hundred munchkins you want to do it you can meet a bunch of kids and I was like sure whatever I had never seen a play that I can recall yeah and then the day of the audition we get to this dance studio place and my mom's walking me up I'm like nope I don't want to do this I do not want to do this. Why did I say yes to this? And my mother said, you have an appointment. You made a commitment. You need to go in there. You don't have to do it. You can tell them no thank you, but you need to fulfill your commitment. I remember she was really big on that. Your name is on the list and they're expecting you. Right. And so I had to go in and they asked me to sing a song. I said,

I don't have any songs I know. And they said, what about happy birthday? Just sing happy birthday. I sang happy birthday, and there were so much praise and warmth and support that I ended up doing the play. And that began my thing. But same thing. Like, why did I say yes to this? I was. The regret, the resistance is what's so remarkable. Like, I thought I want to do that.

So after high school, it was a natural leap for me to go to that college. My mom worked for one of the local high school. schools. And so she got these flyers from the theater department at the college about plays that they were doing. I'd get these things that look at them and stuff. This is like I'm going in high school. I was like, yeah. And I went over and saw a couple of productions to give you an idea. I saw the first two things I saw there before I ever went there was, are you ready? The Fantastics. I love the fantastics. And Harold Pinter's the caretaker. Wow. Those were the two that you saw?

Very different styles for those listening. Yeah, can you explain that? Totally different. One's a musical, the fantastics. It's classic. Yeah, classic. Righteous lightweight, sweet. Try to remember the kind of September.

Explain Pinter, Jeffrey, to people. They don't know Pindler. The British boiler pot. Working class, very. urban, weird. Weird, slightly experimental, very, very sparse language. Pinter pause. Yes.

Can I just ask both of you? Are you two fans of Pinter? Yes or no? I am actually. I do. He's fascinating to me. His characters are just these people. It's really like dark snapshots.

Yes. Brit, urban living. Post-war kind of. for kind of cynical. Very cynical, dark. Pinter pause is like he would write long pause. And so actors, characters would come into a room and go,

what are you doing? Well, you ask. You know, he sort of, long pause. He had pauses where nothing and everything is going on, you know. Oh, my God. This is at the junior college, right?

You saw the play of the GC. Okay. So by this time, you were after, by seeing emperish new clothes to decide to go to this college. This man had gotten a bond past with the city of Santa Maria as well as the college, got funding, and built a replica of the Guthrie. The Guthrie in Minnesota? Oh, my gosh.

Trust stage. And if you ever, you drive up that coast sometimes and you go to Solvang. And you've noticed there's a theater there. It's called the Solvang Theater Fest. Maybe you've seen it. Maybe you know it's the same dimensions as the theater that's on the campus. Because in summer, we would do summer reps and bus and truck, outdoor, indoor, outdoor, indoor. Wow.

Six different shows. Yeah. This is where I, why I'm here talking. So the junior college, what is this teacher's name, this man that ran the place? Donovan, Mark. Donovan Marley. Donovan Marley. Donovan Marley, a icon in the theater world, especially on the West Coast. And the J.C.'s name was the Junior College? Alan Hancock College. Alan Hancock College, which then when you graduated, you moved on to another university. Is that right to?

I realize I'm doing a lot of plays. I'm getting a lot of experience. I'm working with older actors and really seeing how this, the discipline of all of this and the importance of it. But I knew that I needed more. for classwork, like an acting class, a movement class, a voice class, learn how to stage combat. Conservatory training, standard conservatory training, yes, okay. And so I auditioned for a number of things, and I got accepted to University of Washington had an actor training program, Seattle. U-dub, good old U-dub. Okay.

Yes. All right. And so I moved to Seattle and lived there for three years and went through that program. What years was that? 75 to 78. So you went to Udub. You're in Seattle. Did you like Seattle? Were you a fan of Seattle?

I mean, how was that experience there living there? It was suddenly lonelier for me. Yeah. Yeah. I had such great camaraderie and sense of company when I was at PCPA, Pacific Conservatory of the Performing Arts, which Helen Hancock College. Right.

That's what I called it. PCPA. So now I was like, you know, kind of lonely. And then it's kind of being a California boy, that weather really took control on me. Yeah, I'm not a fan of Seattle weather. I got to admit, it gets to me. It gets to me. There's not a lot of sunshine going on. All of a sudden, I could play Hamlet, I think. That's the ideal place to play Hamlet. It's Seattle. It's unbelievable. In those days, it was pre-Stabucks. Oh, right. Everything.

That's right. I think there was one Starbucks. Oh, my God. Down at Pike Street. Like, it just opened. Wow. But I couldn't afford a fancy cup of coffee in those days. From your program, anyone else hit as much fame as you did from your years there?

Well, my great good friend, Harry Grunner. Oh, yeah. He was two years ahead of. me uh there's a number of people that went through the university of washington robert colp robert colp as well wow who's the guy was in the original dune uh kyle mcgall mclaughlin kyle mclaughlin went to udub all right patrick duffy all before or after me yeah yeah um my best friend um it wasn't quite so lonely for me he got in the program with me we we got in the program We've known each other since third grade, fellow act.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, and we've remade it together for a while up there, and we're still, today's his birthday. Oh, what's his name? Mark Harrier is his name. Happy birthday, Mark Carrier. I feel like I've worked with Mark Harrier before. You probably. I think I've directed him in a pilot I did many years ago.

Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, he's a very talented actor. He kind of reminds you a little bit of Sam Watersston. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you knew him from Lompoke days, is what you're saying? Oh, my God. I love that you're still friends with a childhood friend and that he's a creative person. Yes, like you.

That you can still share that, that connection. I have a couple of friends like that, that I have been friends since we all started in community theater together. There's nothing better in the memories that we can pull up just a word. And they go, oh, God, don't know. I was not talking about, you know, or whatever. Nothing better than old friends. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, so that's what I did. And right out of there, we all got in a shitty car, you know, one of those drive-away cars that needs to be in San Francisco things on our spring break. And we went down and auditioned in our last year for what we were going to do for the summer, you know, regional theaters. And I remember one of them was the old globe in San Diego. San Diego, yeah. Well, I'm not going to get an S, man.

I'm not the Shakespeare guy, whatever. And they said, Jeff, we'd like to offer you summer. Come on down. Oh, nice. Wow. So from Seattle to San Diego was, you know. That's a huge difference. You went from no sun to only sun because San Diego is probably arguably the best weather in the nation, I'm going to say.

I don't like paradise. And the old globe. is so exciting. It's in Balboa Park, right? It's a beautiful, beautiful environment, great theaters, a bunch of different theaters. I was supposed to do a play there once. I actually went down and was looking at the housing and all of that.

Yeah, what was it? Yeah, it was a new musical. It was going to be in their smaller theater. Are you a musical? I used to do a lot of musicals, yeah. I didn't know that about you. Yeah. He could sing.

I was a yeah I was supposed to my daughter had just been born this was 1990 my daughter had just been born I had gotten cast in this new musical that was going to be premiered down at the old globe and I went down to look at the cast housing yes because I had a baby a brand new baby that was a month old yeah you got a yeah so I wanted to take a look at it because we were living in LA at the time and then literally while I'm looking at housing my agent called this was on a Saturday my agent called and said hey remember that show you auditioned for in New York just before you moved out called six degrees of separation he goes they want you to come back i think you're going to get this and it's going to Broadway and i was like okay i can get it right that you didn't get it and they but they had they they audition months before they audition for that show jerry zacks who directed six degrees the original production Jerry Zax has a reputation for using the audition process as a bit of a rehearsal. He'll see people over and over and over and he'll try different things.

So he kind of works out all of his directing ideas by looking at what the actors do when they audition and kind of stealing that idea and this idea. Oh, that's crazy. So I had auditioned for that show three, four months before maybe. Right. And gone in a couple of times. And then I moved to California. Do you remember who was going to direct the thing down in the globe?

I don't even remember. All I remember is it was a Saturday, and I'm down in Balboa Park. We had just looked at the housing, which was nice. They had some nice condos or things they had for people, and I had gone by the theater just to poke in, and I was supposed to start rehearsals like in two weeks or something. It's amazing. And then I literally on the Saturday, my agent called on a Saturday. He's like, you need to fly to New York tomorrow.

they want to see you Monday because they had they had cast an actor I'm sorry to go off on this long story they'd cast an actor named Paul McCrane because I was out of town I didn't go to my last audition because Jerry had auditioned over and over and over and I had moved to California and I remember them calling and saying they want to see you again I said I'm in California I'm not going to go back and do this little you know six week run at the at the new house off Broadway I'm not going to do it I'm not going to pick up my life to not worth your time I've moved on. I had moved on.

Well, the show opened in the new house, the small theater, and got the greatest reviews of all time, but Paul McCrane couldn't do any more than the six-week run. And so they were going to extend the run through the summer and they moved to Broadway in the fall, and they had to recast Paul because he could only do the six-week run. So that's why they called me, and I flew back. It doesn't matter.

Anyway, that's a part. But that's my old globe story. I never worked at the old globe. I was very close. Almost. So close. Jeff, I don't know if you know this, but Robbie actually played the original Jack in Into the Woods.

The second. I was the second. Oh, you're a second Jack. Kind of like, kind of like six degrees. I was the Broadway that I was, uh, six degrees Broadway original cast. Um, into the woods. I was the first national tour original cast. Maybe you should join us in the rap pack, Robbie.

Oh, look at that. I did a little karaoke with Robert Picardo recently. I'm sure you did. He forces everyone. So funny. Is Bob in the rap pack? Who else in the rap? No, Ethan Phillips is.

No, Ethan is. Ethan joins his bag of jokes. There's so many of his jokes. Now, all I have to do is give him the punchline. And he's, you know. Anyway, you go to the old globe. we do all that. Where do you go from there?

Yeah. Well, when I went to the globe, I wasn't equity, which is stage actor union. I wasn't equity. And the globe in those days toured two of the three summer shows over to Scottsdale, Arizona. Ooh. Good old. For about a month, you know.

And while we were over there, the artistic director of the Arizona Theater Company in Tucson. Yeah. came up and saw the shows and also held auditions for people to be in his company in the coming fall to spring season. Wow. And again, here I am. Well, I'm not going to that.

You know, I'm not equity. It's equity and I'm not equity. And my dear friend, Jonathan McMurtry, who had. sort of taking me under his wing. He was a stalwart at the globe. He said, Jeff, just go audition. I've talked to him. You've seen the shows. Just go, go to the audition, okay? And I got offered a contract there. A contract and an equity. Wow. And a card. You got your union card, too. That's a big deal. Yeah. So I moved to Tucson soon after when that was all done. and, you know, live there for five months.

And the Globe asked me to come back the next season and do another summer. Let me think about that. Yes. And so at the end of that summer, on my birthday, actually, I come out of the dressing room and a woman is there and she says, I'm an agent. I have an office in New York and L.A. and I would like to represent you. What do you think? Who was that agent?

Her name was Susan Smith. That was my agent. Back in the day on the show, the sci-fi show we did. On the sci-fi show we did. Holy moly. He is no slouch, as you know, Robbins. No, she is no slouch. She was kind of a big deal.

She was a real big deal of the boutique agency. She was the classiest one. What did she see you in in the globe that she, what did she watch? where she came up to you afterwards. What was she? I was in a kind of a gangbusters production of comedy of errors. Okay. All right.

And I played one of the, there's two sets of twins in that. There's masters and their servants and they're both twins and they get mixed up. And people, you know, one comes to the town or the other, they're long lost sets of twins. They don't. And they meet up and they don't know. and people around them get them confused and, you know, it's a comedy of errors. Yes.

And it was zany and fun and kind of the hit of the season, and that's what she saw me. Yeah, and she loved your work, clearly, for her to say that she wanted to rep you right there. I'd love that. Yeah, but there's a dark side to this story, though, Robbie. Oh. Were you around when Susan Smith and Associates changed to Smith Friedman? Ooh. Yes.

I think I was I signed with her in New York okay and she wasn't in New York full time at that time no no she was what year did Smith Freepin happen Jeff

well I know exactly because I'm looking at an award up here on my 1983 no no then I came after that so in 1983

I'd been with Smith Susan Smith for two or three years. You know, it is really hard to make the transition to L.A., and it's really hard to make the transition from being a theater actor to a film and television. Yeah. Actor, nobody knows you. You haven't done anything on film for anybody to judge.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Oh, yeah. So it takes a little time for you to get some footing and some traction. I was doing a play. He was playing the lead in Playboy of the Western World. It's an Irish play, classic, down at South Coast Rep.

And on opening night, the stage manager hands me a lovely parchment envelope. It says, Jeff, you got some mail. It's like, oh, and it was from Susan Smith. I went, oh, oh, she's welcomed me saying, how about a nice opening, right? What a nice thing to do. I opened it up and it said, this is a difficult letter to write, but I'm taking on a partner and we have to do some things. And so make some changes and we're going to let you go from our agency. Thank you very much.

How dare her. And on parchment, too. How dare she? And on opening night. And on opening night. Oh, man. No, let me correct that. an hour before

an hour before the opening night oh god it was like oh that was that was pretty devastating for me

yeah I bet it was she was a tough cookie I mean she was a real tough cookie she was real hard to I got along with her okay it's just that you know her partner the guy who hit the

who was the Friedman I don't think I remember that name but I don't think Alan Friedman I think was his name. Yes, I do remember Alan Friedman. I never got to know the guy. He was like unknowable. You couldn't go in and talk with him in his office. He was just, uh, so when he became a full-fledged partner, you know, and they go through the list. I'm sure he goes, I don't know. I don't know. No. It sounds like you got 86 by Friedman from the story. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Although I don't think anybody tells Susan Smith what to do. Right. Anyway. That was a big disappointment in my career. It didn't take, it didn't take long for me to get another agent. Oh, yeah, I can. I'm sure. And that play swept the LA Drama Critics Circle's Award that year, nine. Wow. And you were still living in Arizona at this time, or no?

Oh, no, no, no. Okay, you're in L.A. now, correct? Yeah, at this point. I'm after the, I took Susan Smith up on her offer. Right. And moved to L.A. at that point. to LA. I got you. Okay. Perfect. And I'd been there like two or three years. Yeah. And then the, then the axe fell. And then it was like, well, okay. Sometimes the tough realities.

I mean, I've had some what at the time were really difficult career things to go through. So one time, I was cast as a lead in a big movie that was highly anticipated that had a cast of young actors who all went on to become movie stars. And everybody knew that this movie was going to make movie stars out of a lot of the people that were involved in this movie. It was just highly anticipated. It was a big deal. And I was cast. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. I was cast. Yeah.

I had a contract. I had a deal. And I was a few months away from filming this movie, a couple of months away. When the director fell out. And there was a delay. And then they found a new director. couple months later, not maybe a month later. And that new director came to meet with me since I had been cast. He was meeting the people that had already signed contracts. And we had a meal

and I knew in that meal that I was not going to be doing this movie. And sure enough, the next week I got a call from Sherry Lansing, who was producing the movie. Sherry Lansing called me and said, this is a difficult call to make. Yeah. That was your parchment letter, right? there that was your personal parchment letter experience this why i relate to baseball because a great hitter fails yeah 70% of the time a great hitter is the 300 hitter that means he's he's he's humiliated and fails to do his job 70% of the time yeah it's just and you have to just just suck it up move on you're going back to bat and just have the resilience at some point anyway to go okay fine let's just move on here Is there a time in your life or an event that kind of creatively defines the way you approach working? I would say as my first PCPA, this was a hot spot.

I mean, it was a foundry. It's where I was tempered. And it was a lot of experience and a lot of really great actors going through there. Yeah. Because in the summertime, Donovan would travel the country and audition actors. And so it was a melting pot. I spent a summer with Robin Williams before he was Robin Williams. Wow.

The people that went through there and have gone through there that you too have probably worked with is a lot. Were there lessons or practices or rituals that you learned then, creatively about approaching work that you still do to this day? Preparation, discipline. He really exuded the notion of an ensemble. You're all in this together. There's no ego here. Everybody, you know, pulls in the same direction.

And, hey, Robert Blackman was putting me in costumes when I was 18. at PCPA is where Robert Blackman was look at these freaking wow oh my so many connections is PCPA still in existence today is Donovan still alive what's what's happened donovan is still alive okay farther up the coast but he's no longer affiliated with the program although it's still there but I you know yeah does theater but I don't think that it the heyday the golden era was luckily when I was there, a little bit after. It sounds like Donovan, you have a lot, most of your, who you are today, you owe to Donovan and PCPA, everything.

Yeah, that's amazing. I love that story. Here's a story for him. When I first went there, what Donovan had all the actors do, even though it's just a two-year college and it's a semester, but there's a slate of place we're going to do, everybody shows up on a particular night and you have to, audition in front of your peers and the directors. Wow.

That's what you're going to do. So I went in there. I'm, you know, barely 18, pimple face, grunny, little doof. And I do everything wrong. I really do. I do everything wrong. You know, the piece I chose was so wrong. Of an old man.

Oh. An old man. And you were 19 years old. Yeah, you were a kid. Yeah, it's bad. It's wrong. And I took it very seriously. Took it very, very seriously.

Worked on a lot. The old man monologue had a cane. And I got up there and I said my first line in the place roared with laughter. Oh, God. Oh, no. And I went, okay. I guess it's funny then Okay, there we go

And Donovan passed me in a lead Off of that audition Wow An audition that I did everything wrong And I said Donovan You know, why did you do that? And he's some energy Oh

You can't teach that And I'm forever grateful for that. It doesn't mean that everything went woo after that. Right. But it was a really lovely way to start. Oh, yeah. He gave you a chance, even though everything you did was absolutely wrong in that audition. It wasn't about whether I did it right.

No. He had enough vision to go past that. Yeah, he could see beyond it. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, just a little addendum to that. The emperors new clothes that I saw in sixth grade. Yes.

Directed by Donovan Marley. No. Oh, wow. So he totally affected you then. Wow. And then it was dormant. I found that out decades later. You didn't even know that.

Oh, wow. When you asked him that question, Donovan, why? Why did you cast me? I was waiting for him to say, the cane. The cane is the reason why I cast you. You brought that cane and showed commitment, Jeffrey Cohns. But no. All right.

It was your energy. He saw your energy. Well, I think what he meant by that, just a kind of a commitment, a stupid bravery, I suppose. I don't know what he saw there. But I'm forever grateful for it because I don't know what I would have done without what I'm doing, what I do. Yeah. I hear you. Well, we've come to that time. We just want to say thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. For all of our Patreon patrons, we get a little bit more of Jeffrey Combs because

he's going to be answering some of our questions. So for those of you who are Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. For everyone else, we will see you next week. Once again, thank you, thank you, Jeffrey Combs. It's been a pleasure. The B. Bhopal, B. Bhopal,

Bhop, Bhop, B Bhop, B, B, B, B

B, B, B, B, B, You know, I'm going to be able to be.