The Delta Flyers - Jonathan Frakes

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

The Delta Flyers is a weekly podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. This week’s episode is an interview with Jonathan Frakes.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, Brannon Braga, Bryan Fuller, John Espinosa, & Ariana DelbarAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, E, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey, Lori Tharpe, Mary Burch, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Roxane Ray, Daniel O’Brien, Bronwen Duffield, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Michael Dismuke, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Mars DeVore, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, & Matt BurchAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Nikita Jane, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Species 2571, Mary O'Neal, Dat Cao, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Tara Polen, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Jennifer Jelf, Justin Weir, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Aaron Ogitis, Ryan Benoit, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Captain Jak Greymoon, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Cindy Holland, Will Forg, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Christian Koch, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Shane Pike, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Akash Patel, Jennifer Vaughn, Cameron Wilkins, Michael Butler, Ken McCleskey, Walkerius Logos, Abby Chavez, Preston Meyer, Amanda Faville, Lisa Hill, Benjamin Bulfer, Stacy Davis, & Mary JenkinsThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

All right, welcome, everyone, to yet another episode of the Delta Flyers. This week, we have the beloved, incomparable, and charismatic Jonathan Frakes, joining us. Wow. Those are nice. You are very charismatic. Do you accept those, do you accept those adjectives, sir? Gratefully. okay humble incomparable that's a big comparable what three have you got for robbie yeah what are mine oh robbie oh my gosh yeah talks too much needs to urinate yeah that's not an adjective yeah that's not an adjective either

oh my goodness okay so right off the bat we know we were just talking about your background you're you know where you were raised Pennsylvania you're a Pennsylvania you're a Pennsylvania guy born in red yep born in one town do I pronounce this correct Belfont is that beautiful I got it right I'm so happy I'm sure people say Belafonte like Harry Belafonte Where's Belfont? Belfont is the

county seat of Center County Pennsylvania Center County Pennsylvania is a home of state college which is where Penn State is I love state college what a great town Yeah when I was born my dad was teaching at Penn State And at that point it is

1952, there was no hospital to deliver babies in state college. But what? That's crazy. There was in Belphon. Oh, wow. And also, there was no liquor sale or liquor store in state college. So I was born, Jonathan, Scott Frakes, in the hospital, in the Center County Hospital in Belphan, Pennsylvania.

And an inordinate amount of people from the English department who wished my father was a member. came to visit my mom in the hospital because it was right next to the liquor store. That's amazing. Yeah, well, he just had a baby. You got to toast that moment. You got to toast that moment. You got to celebrate. Yes.

And one of them, I wish I had knew, it might have been Leonard Rubenstein. One of the friends of the family gave my mom a note and said, What hath God brought Jonathan Scott? Wow. What a good. got like this elegant sort of sonnet for your birth. That's beautiful. Yeah.

There's a little deep dive into Bellefont, Pennsylvania. Belfont. Are there any stories when you were born? Are there any stories your parents told you? So the one about the friends coming and toasting, anything. I'm not sure they drank in the hospital, but they didn't come to see her or me. They came because the liquor store happened to be in Belmont.

Like my parents always told. me the story when I was born. I was born in Raleigh, North Carolina at Rex Hospital. And my father said he came and I was born at 5, 5.30 in the evening. And he said, you know, everything was done. I went back to get the car to go home because your mom was staying over for a night. And I found a $100 bill on the sidewalk. And he said, I thought, you know, Robbie was just born. I find a $100 bill. This is a good sign. So they would always tell that story about something was there any any story that your parents told about when you were born or when you were a baby anything like that you can remember no i just gave you i gave you the one moment

the one that the toast and the liquor store i will say this though robbie because they found the hundred dollar bill your name should have been benjamin for benjamin franklin that's that's the name they should have given you yes um jonathan when our son was born our son is named jameson patrick ivor freaks but when our son was born Jeannie and I had decided we'd name him Benjamin Frakes. Oh. In a panic at Cedars, she wisely said, whoa, whoa, he can't be Ben, Benji. He can't be Ben Franks, which everybody called me by night.

Oh, yeah. Right? So we pulled Benjamin. I had to go to the administrative department at Cedars, took Benjamin off the birth certificate and put Jameson on. Wow. There's a something you probably don't know. I did not know that.

See, there? No. That's why you come to the Delta Flyers. To the Delta Flyers. That's the kind of shit you get here. That's right. It's good shit. This is good shit.

I must say, I did have an enjoyable time interacting with your son on the cruise that we were on recently. Because the last. Well, you know, and his lovely wife or was that girlfriend? Yeah, fiancé. He's a riot. Yeah. It was so fun talking to. them hanging out and also the prior time that I had seen your son was when Jeannie was shooting

the TV movie and he was an infant on that set that I came to visit Jeannie. Do you remember this? Yes, we were filming in California. It was like up in La Cagnata somewhere. Yes. Yes. I drove there to visit you guys. I don't know if you were on set at the time, but I do remember going there and watching for a little bit. And it was strange that I was. And Jameson was an infant? He was like, oh, yeah. He was just a three years old. No, he was a baby because she was still nursing. That's what I'm saying. He was like, and he was on set with her because she was still nursing him, correct? Yeah. So then flash forward, the next time I see him, he has a fiance. So I'm thinking, oh. So we're old. Isn't that amazing? This, this moment reminds me again

of this sci-fi franchise that we're all a part of. Yes. Is like no other job I've had in my life because I get to watch people's families. We're all I get to see there. It's incredible. It's incredible. I love that. I agree. I agree.

So when you got, you were born in Belfand, but at the time you guys were living in Bethlehem or where was this? No, no, no. My dad was teaching at Penn State. Right. And then he got a job at RPI, which was in Troy, New York where I went when we were,

God, I guess maybe kindergarten, maybe up to kindergarten. Then he moved. He went to Lehigh, which was in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. Got it. Where I lived until I was, 17. And at 17, I went to Penn State. State College, back to State College. Because I wanted to take a year. I really wanted a gap year. I really believed in it. My father, who was an academic, yeah. An academic thought it was a great idea because he had seen so many burnouts come into his freshman English courses. And so he was all about it. And then my mom, Doris Frakes, who you know from the phone. I loved, I loved Doris. I thought about that this morning when I knew it was going to be. with you that she she loved that i i included ravi in one of my calls to my mom who used to call we were in the car and you were on the phone you put her on speakerphone i'm so jealous every time

after that i would ask about her and she about him because it was she felt like she felt like she had met him i am so jealous oh my so my mom freaks out the last minute and says jonathan it's got to go you got to gym you got to do something to get him you know because i hadn't applied to college i you know it was not gonna i was so happy you're yeah yeah Yeah, you were going to take a gap here. So she, he pulled some kind of string that I could, in fact, go to Penn State because I had to write SATs. I was never going to get into Princeton or any of the other, but I could go to Penn State

and I could go to the main campus, which was the big deal about Penn State, you didn't want to end up in your hobbitzville. But you had to start in the summer. So I started college a week after I got a high school. Oh, my God. So it's the opposite of a gap year. Exactly. My point, exactly.

What the heck? The following summer, I took off on a hitchhiked across the country with David Vote. And that was a, it was just at the end of when it was cool, 1971. Oh, my God. That was still cool. That was still cool. Yeah, but it was dangerous. We got arrested in Toma, Wisconsin for trespassing, for hitchhiking on the freeway, the Route 90, I think that is. Oh, my God.

And the cops took us in and put us in, in this, you know, in the slammer and gave us spinner. This was David Votnay. How was the dinner? What did you? It was fine. Yeah. I don't know. Like, it was a, you know, canned ham.

It was, it was nice. Okay. And then in the morning, they woke us up and they gave us breakfast. And then they drove us back to the same place. They picked us up for his sake. What? And they said, you let you go. So they must have felt like, oh, these could be my boys.

You know what I mean? Yeah. When you turn out to be nice guys, they're like, uh, maybe we shouldn't have picked him up. Well, you've been in jail. Have you been in jail any other time? No. Why that's as good at us is, have you been in jail? No, I feel like that's, you've been in jail.

Yeah. I am so jealous. What a great question. Have you been in jail any other time? You're the first guest of ours that I think we have discovered has spent on the night in jail. Have you asked them all? No, but now it's going to be a regular question. That should be our first question to every guest.

Have you been in jail? And there you go. Jonathan, can I ask you very quickly before you get into this? your mother's maiden name. Yiggling. Yes, there's a beer of the same name. And I've always wondered. Different spelling.

Different spelling. Okay. Only it had been the beer family. I'd be rich. Oh, you would be the crown prince. But you wouldn't have had to hitchhike. That's for sure. You would have had a limo follow you while walking. Oh, yeah, the hitchhiking was really a choice.

You remember the 70s. Maybe you don't. I remember, speaking of hitchhiking, I remember, was probably when was when was woodstock what year was it 1667 68 68 I think so I was four years old I have a vague blurry memory my whole life I've had this memory I visited my great grandmother in in Chadburn North Carolina little farm town she had five six kids she had a lot of kids and I remember I was out playing in her front yard of her little farmhouse and this Volkswagen pulls in with a bunch of hippies, I would call them, in my memory.

My second cousin or whatever, her youngest son had gone to Woodstock and he was getting dropped off on the way back. And I remember this and I knew in that moment I'm four or five years old. You know how cool it was. I knew it was cool. I knew that was like they were just, they were all hippies coming back from Woodstock. Yeah, I was in high school. My mom wouldn't let me go.

Yeah, she stopped you. but I did get to go see the Beatles Oh, really? Wow. On a bus from Bethlehem to Philly to Veterans Stadium and that was spectacular

except you couldn't hear anything because they were old that was screaming. Everybody screamed. Couldn't hear all my God. But I saw them and it was great. You saw them at the old vet stadium? Yeah.

I sang the national anthem at the old vet stadium. So I have performed like You're a name dropper. Like the Beatles. Like the Beatles, I have sung at the old stadium, yes.

I'm still trying to finish my thought. What is the cultural background of the name, Yingling? My mother is Pennsylvania Dutch. Yeah, it's a Dutch name. I think it strangely is. I mean, it's like, you were hoping that we had an Asian connection? Yes, that's what I was thinking. I saw that and I thought, he's part Asian.

This is amazing. He's my cousin. We're cousins. I was so, so excited. And then I realized, wait a minute, no, there must be some, some European country. It sounds like it could be a Dutch sounding. That sounds Pennsylvania Dutch. Yeah, it is.

Oh, my God. Yingling. Doris. All right. Doris. Love Doris. Oh, me too. Let's talk about your formative years.

Let's talk about your formative years. When you were young, when did you do school plays right off the bat? Did you play your instrument right off the bat? When did that happen? How did that begin? The trombone started. I went to live, what was it called? Jefferson Elementary School, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

And I don't know if you guys went to public school. was the situation where the class, this is, I think, in fourth grade, they're given like two clarinets and two trumpets and two saxic, you know, right? Yeah. So the instruments are laid out. And then you stand up and Mrs. Hirshberg, who I adored, who was my fourth grade teacher, said, breaks, you have long arms, you get the trombone. That was it.

That's how it started. That's how random. But I stayed with it and I got good at it. And then I was in a marching band in junior high school. And then, you may not know this, Robbie. Yes. I was in the Liberty High School Hurricane Grenadier Marching Band, featuring Ginny Pesick, Mike Heller, Pike Major.

And we won the Festival of States in Florida as the best marching band in the United States of America, 1970. Name dropper. Name dropper. I did not know that. The Hurricane Grenadier marching band. So we had bearskin hats and marched on that. Oh, my, I love a marching band.

We played a Rule Bichamia. Oh. I do. I honestly do. I love a marching band. Of course. I spent years in a marching band. And then I played on the show because Morris Hurley, who you probably didn't have. He was a director. No, he was an EP writer from... What's that show you did? That sci-fi show? No, no, it wasn't from that show. He was a writer from the show that took place in Miami

with the two... Yeah, with those guys. The guys that were... vice cops in Miami. Right, right. Your teacher said you have long arms play the trombone. But when you saw those instruments, did your eye gravitate towards another instrument that was there? No, not the clarinet, Garrett.

I wasn't going there. I wasn't going. But now that you brought that up, I often use you as an example. When I talk about the instruments, I say, they made me play the clarinet, which I have no clue how to play the clarinet. Why on earth didn't they go to somebody who already knew how to play an instrument? Similar to the show that Franks was on, he already played the trombone, and so they had him play it on the show.

He knows how to play it. They should have got Tim Russ play the logical lute is what they should have had. Here's my takeaway from Jonathan's story. Yes. When I was in fourth grade, we lived in Norristown, Pennsylvania. Oh, outside of Philly. Outside of Philly. And they laid out the instruments, and one of them was a little drum pad.

and that was you that was me I came home I came home to Norristown slam para dill tittle dittled I would bang on that little it was a

do you know the drum pad Of course I do I can see it 10 12 inches It didn't make much sound at all But I always considered myself a drummer from that fourth grade year Of the drum pad Even though I never

Yeah you have a drummer vibe Right he does he does take it on the drummer vibe even though it's kind of sexy i don't really care but i'm really good it's got that's your that's your i can pull that off oh definitely i i will say i have i have owned that i was a drummer even though i spent fourth grade on a little pad and never went beyond that i've i've owned i've internalized the drummer uh experience for myself in And Slovenia is my point with you. Yes. Well, yeah, they must have the same laws.

We're going to give these kids 12 instruments. You break them up the way you want. Exactly. And I just, go ahead. I'm just going to say, if you two were not heterosexual, you would make a lovely couple to both of you. I'm just going to say. I think we would.

Because you're both, you're the dragon. So that's very compatible. And me being monkey, I'm also compatible with you. But you two understand each other very well. We have a, well, we do love each other. I know. I agree. Yeah.

I agree. I have one more chapter of the trombone. Oh, please. Oh, I can't read. When I lived on Lookout Mountain, I lived in what I was told was Jimmy Hendrix's old house.

Oh, wow. Urban myth are true. Yeah. For everyone listening. I internalized it just like my drumpad. For own it. You lived in Jimmy Hendricks house. I love it.

For everyone listening, Lookout Mountain is in Hollywood Hills in Los Angeles, famous area. And I lived next door to Paul Fox, who became a good friend. Actually, in these days, back in the 80s, we would meet at the end of our day and pass a joint over the fence to each other. I love that. He was the producer of R.E.M., Bjork, Jacob Dillon, and Fish. Oh, and Fish, too.

Oh, wow. So the Fish guys used to rehearse in this room that was in the front of my house that I let his guys come and rehearse it. And the fish fit were massive trekkers. Really? This was 19. Yeah. Trey, John Fishman, who has a house very close to mine in Maine now.

Anyway, these guys were massive, massive trekkers. So they used to rehearse there in my little extra room. And on Lookout Mountain, as you guys who know here, our mailbox was a, was a cow that had been hit by about 400 cars. So it was a dent it. You know how some mailboxes have the large mouth ass? Yeah. This is the cow version of that with black and white spots. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So these guys got Paul, and they introduced themselves to me, and I was kind of excited because fish was just, they were just taking over for Grateful Dead. Yeah. They said, do you want to play on our album? I said, what? I said, sure.

They said, okay, Saturday we're going to be in the studio, out in the valley somewhere, come out at 10 o'clock. so I go out. I'm really excited that I'm going to play an official. Oh my. Of course. Right. So they put me in the sound booth with the music stand in the charts and I got my horn out. And first of it was like in three sharps or four sharps. So it was already I could tell. And it was all the notes were way up over the scale. It was that kind of music. Very challenging. Yeah. So my umberscher wasn't up to it. My technique wasn't up to it. And it broke my heart. But they, you know, they so we started I went and it was clearly wrong

he said let's you know then they said well let's try it one more time and this went on for you know maybe 20 minutes and then it couldn't be more clear that they needed a real trombone player oh man it's fine it's got a good happy ending okay so we had lunch they sent me home I said I'm so sorry I disappointed you know it's been great hanging out with you this and that

and then ultimately they hired the trombone player from Tower of Power who crushed So then Paul Fox May he rest in peace gave me I guess months or years or a year later maybe a gold record of the hoist album which was the name of this record

and on side one cut three or cut four is this little 29 second cut called Riker's mailbox which was all those bad outtakes so I'm on you're on the album

album that was a gold record it's called hoist oh my god i had no idea i'm gonna go get that album oh my goodness what is it called again the track the track is called rikers mailbox rikers mailbox the cow mailbox oh my god you know what year was this would you say can you yeah 89 yeah i feel like that so while they were rehearsing there um i was at ucela and they performed at ucela fish did many times. So I'm thinking that they were rehearsing in your house to perform at UCLA right before they came. Oh, my goodness.

Wow. What's the guy's name from Smallville who also does this? Michael Rosenbaum. Rosenbaum. Yeah. He does this and he insisted that I come to his house and said, dude, why don't we just do it to Zoom way? He said, breaks come to my house.

His house is directly across the street from the Jimmy Hendricks house that I lived in. No. And he didn't know it. Oh, my God. was the mailbox was the mailbox was gone and the house had been rebuilt beautifully but but it was really emotional and weird and i thought i thought he had set me up he had no idea oh wow you guys are easy to share with yeah yeah we are i love these stories i just love i love digging into people's stories and the details matter like the mailbox all that detail is really great we have trombone now

what about acting? Did you do school plays at all? How did that come into play? Around junior high school, I started to do plays. Famous play like Which Witch is Witch. Love that. Oh, that's a tough one. There's just you saying, hey, I'm going to start, or did someone get you into this? I think I was persuaded. My father never discouraged me. My mother never discouraged me. I was one of those kids who wanted to be in everything. So I was in the band and I was in the chorus and I was on a debating club and I was in the theater club and I was on the track team and I was in the cross-country team. I wanted to do everything. I couldn't play football. I was on

the basketball team and I was so bad. Wow. I was horrible. They thought because I was tall I'd be good. I was so fucking bad at basketball. Can I ask what event in track and field, Jonathan? I actually did the 100 to 2-20, the triple jump and the long jump. Oh, wow. Triple jump. Yeah. Wow. And what was your favorite event? What was your favorite event? Triple jump? I bet you were great in that because of your height. 39 feet. Nice. Wow.

Huh. Wow. There's something you don't talk about often. No. So you were an overachiever. I mean, I feel like you still are. I think you still, you don't want to miss out on anything. That's what it wasn't overachieving.

It was I didn't, I didn't want to sweep because I thought I was going to miss the party. It was FOMO. I had FOMO from an early, early age. My mom, God bless her, back to Doris, you would take me from a track meet. I also played in the municipal band and sit in addition to the high school band. So she'd pick me up at the track meet, and I'd take off my sweaty track suit from Liberty High School and put on my brown sport coat for the municipal band concert at the band shell on the other side of Bethlehem.

Oh, my God, school band and municipal band and athletics, everything. And still not good enough to play with fission. But you're on the gold record. That's incredible. So Doris drove you around. If you didn't want to miss out, she drove you a lot. She drove me a lot and my father did not drive. So she drove him.

Oh, no. He was an English professor without a driver's license. Wow. And your mom was superwoman to do all of those things for you and your father. That's what I said. And my brother. And your brother. And you also said that you could not play football.

Why is that? Because that's a big... Because I was in the band. Yeah, you're in the band. If you were not in the band, what position would you have liked to have played in football? Good question. Very good question.

Quarterback, probably. No, not quarterback. Not quarterback. Okay. I thought maybe tight end. Tight end, yeah. Now I play tight end. Yeah.

It's funny. It's funny. I never played football. I played like a youth. But you're a big football fan, aren't you? We're both huge football fans. I love watching it. Georgia, the dogs.

The dogs. I'm a big Georgia Bulldogs fan. And we've had a couple good years. So it's been a nice run. For 41 years before that, it was not a good run. We've had a good couple years. Yeah, I, I couldn't play football. It hurt.

You weren't allowed to or you were not good. Did you try? I was already doing theater by the time I got into high school and all the guys were playing football, all my friends. And I wanted to, but I was doing plays. So you never tried out, Robbie. You never seventh grade, football, eight grade, none of that. No, I would go play, like, pick up football with them. And we tackle in the park.

Like, we play tackle football. And it hurt. Wow. And I remember thinking, A, I'm doing plays. I'd rather do plays than football. And B, it hurts a lot. And I'm just going to watch. Did your focus on.

the theater in high school help you get into Juilliard? I don't know. I didn't go to Juilliard for a couple of years. I didn't go to school. I went to work out of high school. And I didn't go to school for two and a half years or something. Oh, I didn't know that. And then you went to Juilliard.

Then I went back to school two years later because I was doing like dinner theater musicals and, you know, Summerstock musicals in the chorus. And I wanted the big roles. And I thought, well, the way to get the big roles is have some piece of paper or something fancy that'll that'll help me get the acting roles. Do you ever sing on camera? Have I ever sang on camera? Oh my God, that's a great question.

I don't think so. What? I don't think I ever have. That's crazy. Do you sing at the conventions? I have sung at the conventions. Yeah. Have you? Have you sung at the? You know, me. Yeah, of course. I open with vol. Vos on the ye. And I give them the mic.

Bo ho. Yeah. You've seen my, you've seen my shing. Yeah. It's so tired. It's so tired. Bob Picardo forced me. The last time I did a convention, he somehow tricked me into doing karaoke with him,

doing some duets with him. I didn't know where we were going. And he's like, oh, come with me. I just got to go do this thing. And suddenly I'm out there with him, you know, in front of all the people doing a couple of songs, pick up songs in the karaoke. But it was fun.

It was really fun. Was I liquored up? Maybe. I think so. Maybe. Maybe. Yes. I think I was, actually.

I think we had a nice Italian meal. That was going to go back to your mom driving you around, though. Oh, yeah, big part of my youth. Yeah, my mom told me a lot in the Rambler. Yeah, I was in the Toyota Celica. And then it was a then it was a Plymouth Belvedere, which was the first car that I got, which was a Ford or. Yeah. That I got to take to college in my senior year.

But those are great memories. The Rambler had push button. Oh, yeah. Yeah, the Rambler was saying. Your mom was in a Toyota Celica, Robbie? Is that what you said? Yeah, it was a Celica hatchback, so it was like a station wagon. Or no, no, it was a Dotson.

Oh. So, sorry. I thought it was a Celica. It was a Dotson. For those people who are watching. Yes, was the name before Nissan. Before there was Nissan. I forgot about that.

It was called Dotson. So people don't know that. She had a Dotson station wagon. I forget what it was called. My first car was a Toyota Seleika Supra, actually, the sports, sporty. I just have great memories, Jonathan, of my mother driving me to all, because I was kind of like you. I was involved in school clubs, and then I'd go to rehearsals and this and that, and I was so young, I didn't, I couldn't drive myself. Yeah, me too.

I've, great memories of spending time with my mom. I appreciated it so much, and she obviously loved doing her, she wouldn't have done it. Yeah. Why did your dad not want to drive, or he couldn't drive? because i think he had some trauma i don't think i know he had some trauma sometime in his youth okay that he was in a truck at a farm or something that rolled over and he or maybe something in the war it's something about driving he he did not he'd walk to lehigh he'd walk across the bridge oh oh my god or other faculty members would pick him up he was very diabetic so the walking was

great for him because he got he refused to stop drinking so he could he thought if he walked he could have a martini that was his theory your father in the war you mentioned the war did he he was in uh w w two against his better judgment and he refused to carry a gun so he became a radio man oh wow and he famously according to him ate uh camel's brains and smoked hash in north africa those are the two parts of the war that i remember hearing about wow wow so he was in the north african campaign that's where he was he was he was there was he was he was in the coast car no that's not really being in the war I guess so he was stationed at

what's the name of the rock Gibraltar was stationed by Gibraltar it was stationed by Gibraltar as a room Wow smoke and hash and eating camel's branch Yeah those stories are incredible They are my grandfather was He was in the Army Air Corps before there was an Air Force He was in the Army Air Corps

And he was before there was a Space Force Before there was a Space Force He was over in he was an airplane mechanic in guam so he was in the pacific theater and i had his uh baseball glove that he played the baseball on guam during world war two and somewhere in my life it has disappeared and it breaks no because that glove it was it was it was not it was useless it was so kind of dried out and rotted and but it was his baseball and it was tiny it was tiny he was a smaller man but I loved hearing my

grandfather's stories from he must have played second base yeah yeah are you following the playoffs when does this air by the way this Sunday night it goes up this one oh it does that's right so we're right in the middle

of the baseball playoffs which are very exciting the Phillies the Phillies doing great is that your team Atlanta Braves well they were the first time I saw a baseball game was at Connie Mack Stadium in Philadelphia because I was in Bethlehem but then I came out here first of I was a Yankee fan because I lived in New York and as in fact we were rehearsing a play at Soho rep on this date in 1977 when Reggie had hit the three home runs and the Steve Zuckerman who was a director was even listening to the game what we was supposed to be directing but at some point it became clear that and there were a couple of their baseball fans into play we stopped rehearsal and we were went to, I think, the Spring Street bar and watched the end of the game instead of rehearsing

because of this, because that was the night that he had three home runs. Wow. Wow. The memory's just come flying back. Isn't it crazy? Isn't it crazy? What other sports teams do you follow or are you fan? Well, I follow, I was a Phillies fan that I went to, became a Yankee fan.

We'd love to go to the stadium on the subway. And then when we move to Maine, they don't let you into Maine unless you sign a thing that says you'd be a Red Sox fan. Yes, it's a rule. it's a law so that was i was given a jason veretic baseball that i told i was also told that i had to love tom brady i so i struggled with that the whole time and then i when i got killed off in the soap i went to l.a and it was just when fernando mani was starting in 78 or 79 i think that was yeah and it was so exciting out here for baseball then oh and baseball in the late 70s and the 80s

yeah yeah steve barby and that whole you know reggie reggie smith that was a great team so And it's my sport. I don't know why. I know that is your sport. You love baseball. Did you ever? So Michael Pillar was a huge baseball fan. Did you ever go to games with Michael?

No, I didn't, but I adored Michael Pillar. Yeah, he loved baseball. I did go to the White House with Michael Pillar. Oh, really? Talk about that. Yeah, this is safe to talk about. We were invited to the White House during the, I guess, was it the Carter years? Or was it?

Carter years, my goodness. No, it wouldn't have been. No, no, it would have been... The Bush, Bush, the first? Maybe the Bush the first. Whoever invited us, we were invited. We went to a party at the White House, and then we were all stayed at the Watergate Hotel.

Oh, wow. So after the event with Buzz Aldrin and others, we were all in the lounge. Yeah. The actors and Pillar and Rick, and Pillar sat at the piano. And none of us, or at least I didn't. I didn't know he played.

And he played beautifully. He played beautifully. Oh, wow. I had no idea. We all sort of feathered in and Pillar took his baseball cap. I think we were dressed. He probably didn't have, I don't think he had a hat on, but he played beautifully for about 20 minutes.

And it was, you know, standards and some, you know, like classical. And it was. Wow. It was mesmerizing because it was such a, you know, when somebody does something that they do that well that you knew nothing about. It's kind of a treat. wow that's insane very cool that was amazing that was sorry 19 i'm just trying that probably would have been the late 80s or something or yeah 90s yeah late 80s okay

yeah was that Clinton or bush so that was bush the first was 88 to 92 yeah that's probably in that zone maybe i just love when you know again with our sci-fi family oh the things that we're invited to do the things were invited to do the things were invited to do And then the things we discover about the people that, you know, when we're punching the clock and making these episodes, you know, you're kind of focused on that. Right. But when you end up in the lobby of a hotel.

Right. And somebody starts playing piano and you're like, what? Who are you? Yeah. I love those moments. I do too. I'm crazy about those moments. Was there someone that obviously somebody influenced you or somebody was a mentor in your high school years

that made you go to your college and get you. your BFA. Let me tell you that. I went to Penn State, as you know, a week after I got out of high school. And I wanted to be a psychiatrist. I may have told you this before. I was convinced that I would be a good psychiatrist. I don't know why. And I would have been. Yeah, you would have been. So I signed up to be a, you know, psych major. But while I was there, I saw that you could go to see the professional, I think it was called the American Theater Company. Penn State had a professional company that came in for the summer. You could sign. If you signed up to Usher, you can see the place for free.

Yeah. So I went to the theater building. I signed up to Usher. And down the hall comes one of my mentors, who turned out to be one of my mentors, Richard Edelman, who was the director, one of the directors. The company was filled with a lot of actors from New York and from actress theater, Louisville, and from the Guthrie and from the arena stage at Washington. Max Wright was there and Stanley Anderson.

There were some people that, you know, there were a lot of wonderful actors there. He said, oh, you're a tall guy. Would you mind or would you like to be in this play? And all you're going to do is sit on the stage and play the drums a little bit. And I said, I'd be thrilled. So he invited me to rehearsal. And it was a play called Indians by Arthur Coppet. You know who Arthur Coppet is, right?

Yes. It's an anti-war kind of. Exactly. And it has to do with the Wild West show. And it was sort of anti-racist. And so I was rehearsing this play. and I was around these people, this acting company that had been also Happy Valley where Penn State is in the summer is breathtaking and wonderful.

So rehearsal was like 10 in the morning and maybe they rehearsed until 3 and then the rep, then they'd take a break, then they go back to the theater for a half hour at 7 or 7.30. They do whatever at play that was up. So they're out of the theater by 10. They're in the bar by 10.15. What a life. That's exactly what I said. What a life. Wait, is this a real pop? Is this a real thing?

People do this? That's what I said. Exactly what I said. So I changed majors and left Penn State with the single most useless degree anyone who could have. I have a BFA in theater arts with a focus in acting. Oh, yes. There's nobody that's going to care if you have that degree. But it's a fun degree to get. You have a lot of fun along the way, but it's useless.

On the next episode, we'll talk about college. Yes, we will. There we go. And then after that to Harvard. I never went to Harvard. So that's bullshit. That's bull crap. I worked at a theater called the American Repertory Theater.

No, that was in Cambridge. A.R.T was up there. Yeah, this was, Harvard didn't even have a theater department when I worked there. Well, I don't even think they, I don't think they do now. I don't think. I did three. Yeah, they did. They got the guy who came over from Yale and took over the theater department.

Oh, they do, okay. Yeah. I was going to say, your Wikipedia does say master's degree from Harvard. So that could be removed for sure. I, of course, haven't removed it. No, why would you? I never went to Harvard. The theater that I worked there, I was with Christopher Reeve and Marco Martindale.

Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. Argo Martin. You know what? I totally forgot now. I remembered. Jonathan, when you were at that event that had Buzz Aldrin, did you guys talk to Buzz? I don't remember

Okay I've talked to Buzz Yeah I've spent some time with him Did you get to Buzz with Buzz? Yeah, maybe To complete the Harvard The Harvard Live

It was called the Loeb Drama Center Ah Oh yeah Yeah right Which I guess became It was the theater department After it became the theater major But then it was a place

Where shows came in from out of town And in the summer they had a professional company That's how I Well here's how I got my agent I went to the lobe drama center or people came in from New York to so I see it. And then I went back to the Logue Drama Center for a second season. And I've been very lucky.

You have not missed out on anything. I'm going to say it's your efforts have been a success, Jonathan. You have not, you've done it all. Who has really helped me continue to get away from the show that we're avoiding talking about? Yes. Who has helped me the most? Who? You.

Aw. Me? You have single-handedly giving me more non- Non-sci-fi. non-sci-fi jobs continuously. And if you deserve not only kudos, but hugs and kisses. And I'll never stop being grateful. You were always a gift.

Every show that I did, I tried to get you in there. And sometimes you weren't available, which you were having good years. Hard to believe. But it's always been, every time we've been able to work together, it's been such a highlight. And you bring so much creativity and passionate energy. the crew feels it the actors feel it it's a highlight every time honestly it really is and my biggest takeaway here is that you and i both got driven around by our moms a lot yes and i love that yes

i have two takeaways takeaway number one that he is truly the beloved incomparable and charismatic dark freaks uh takeaway number two is that we're so lucky to have had him on the delta flyers thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. More than you know. You guys are so easy. Thanks, Jonathan. And for our Patreon subscribers, stick around. We've got some questions, admiral questions. Jonathan's going to answer. And for everybody else, we'll see you next week.