The Delta Flyers - Killing Game Part 1

Episode Date: December 20, 2021

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch & recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is The Killing Game, Part 1. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.The Killing Game, Part 1:When Hirogen hunters take over Voyager, they force the crew to play a deadly holodeck game, a simulation of WWII France where the Hirogen are the Nazis.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill, & our Post Producer Jessey MillerAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, & Brannon BragaAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Mike Devlin, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey,Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, AJ Freeburg, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Barbara S., Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, John Mann, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Melissa Lau, Tae Phoenix, Nicole Anne Toma, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Paul Young, Elly Post, & Brandon MayAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, James Amey, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Jenna Appleton, Jason Potvin, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Amy Tudor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Louise Storer, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Megan Moore, Melissa A. Nathan, Captain Jak Greymoon, David Wei Liu, David J Manske, Roxane Ray, Bronwen Duffield, Red Wizard, Jessica B, & E.G. GalanoThank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager. Your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNay. Hello. Hello. Hello. are you, Robbie. I'm good. Good. Good. Good. I'm good. I'm very good. I had donuts this morning. I had. There's a place called the 49th parallel coffee shop in Vancouver. Yeah.

They make these donuts that are unbelievable. What's the name again? The what? The 49th parallel. Okay. And these donuts. Which is the border, which is the border between the U.S. and Canada is the 49th parallel. Oh, okay. Well, that makes sense. What makes these donuts so amazing? I don't. They're just homemade. They're so, like, rich and delicious. And they, they, today we, we got chocolate, which was just the richest chocolate, amazing, like cake donut. Oh, they made.

And then they made a couple holiday donuts. Yeah, they made one that was like, um, a maple old fashioned flavored donut or something. So it had this, oh, so good. Yeah, really good stuff. Interesting. Cool donuts. creative donuts very creative yeah well my mouth is watering now that you've given us giving me the donut report i appreciate yes yes absolutely how are you doing um okay i'm okay yeah we had a that was a long

day yesterday that we had recording that was uh we did a lot of uh interviews and uh we we jump on you know every month we're jumping on with our admirals to talk about um star trek and and all kinds of things we we we have great discussions with our admiral patrons and uh yeah yeah and they go on sometimes for hours and yeah talking about star trek history or details of the show or or how you know star trek kind of um seeps into people's lives and you know and and uh catching up on all kinds of ways that star trek has been a part of people's lives so yeah that was a good conversation yesterday it was a good conversation it was a long day uh i was very tired but it was one of those things where at the end of the day, when I went to sleep, I couldn't sleep. I was so

tired, I couldn't fall asleep. So I was sitting there rolling around, rolling around. I think I probably finally dozed off at maybe one or two a.m. But this is after, you know, out three hours of trying to sleep. I think it finally happened for me. You know, a lot of people use Star Trek as a sleeping pill. And they put it on and they just gently go to sleep. So you may want to put on some Star Trek. Well, funny enough, funny enough, we recorded an episode yesterday when I was watching the episode, I did doze off. I didn't tell you that idea when I was watching that episode. A lot of people do that. They used Star Trek to just wind down and fall asleep. So that'll be your sleeping pill. Yeah, that may be what I need to do from now. Yeah. Typically I turn on some classic

trek in there. Just put on some classic trek and just and just doze off, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I usually listen to those singing bowls. Do you know those when people, you know what I'm talking about, right? Those crystal bowls that people can play and those. Yeah, there's great stuff online that you can pull up to sort of relax. So that usually puts me in a good position to fall asleep quickly.

But last night it was not working. So I'm going to try some track episodes. see what happens. Okay, so this week, or today, the killing game, part one. So excited, so excited to rewatch this and review this. This is a huge two-parter. And many times when fans are asked about, what are your favorite episodes of Voyager, this two-parter falls in there quite a bit.

Really? I do find that. And I'm really, really stoked to be finally reviewing this two-parter, the first part of the two-parter, at least. Yeah, this is going to be fun. All right. Well, good. Let's go do it. Yep.

All right, everybody, see you soon. See you. Dokey-doke, Robbie and I are back from watching The Killing Game, Part 1. Yes, we are. We survived. We survived watching the killing game. Because we could have been killed. we could have been we could have been so all right let's start off like we always do here is my haiku

for killing games part one crew on holodex hunted by the horogen harry has a plan that's it nice I feel like you really yeah I feel like that was you synopsized a lot of things in a very short amount of time I think that was great I trust ride. Let me hear your limerick. Okay, here we go. I'm pretty proud of this limerick. I feel like I'm on a roll lately. Yeah, here we go. My limerick, poetic description in limerick form of Star Trek Voyager, the killing game part one. Here we go. Okay. It's Voyager in World War II. The Herogen are hunting our crew. If we break the neural link, the Herogen power. will shrink next week we will see what they do very good and and i'm going to say very good

rebecca so i use a beginning of your name and the end of her name to get robeca i will never tell you don't have to tell because i've already explained it makes the dream work yeah i agree i like that that's a great limerick and that and that's one of the reasons why i wanted to switch back to having you and Rebecca, do it because it is so entertaining and it's so good when you guys teamwork it. You had good limericks too, dude. This poetry thing, it's just an opportunity to be creative. You just stressed over the limericks too much. I did.

You just got to loosen up when you're everybody out there, when you're being creative, when you want those juices to flow, you just got to loosen up. Just let it, let it happen. Don't try to force it. You're right. I was stressed, the same stress that I had. had before recording our Christmas episode, that's the same stress I had before every limerick. I thought, oh my gosh, I can't do this. I can't do this. But it's doable, you know, and you actually

have more, you have more real estate. Yeah, you have more real estate to work on it. Yeah, it's really hard to boil something down to the essence of five syllables, seven syllables, and five syllables because if you start with Voyager in the first line of the haiku. Voyager takes up three. You got two more left. Voyager is good or Voyager is bad. You know, what are you going to do? You can't do much with it. So, all right. Can we talk a little bit about the guest stars after we talk about, yes. Let's talk about written by Braga and Monoski, directed by David Livingston. And many guest stars on this one. Many wonderful guest stars. Let's start with Danny Goldring.

Yes. Danny Goldring, who plays car. Alpha Horogen, the main horogen guy. The main horogen. He's 75 years old now while we're recording this. He did six different Trek episodes, and he played five different characters. Really? Yeah, on DS9, he played Leggett, Kel, and Chief Burke in different episodes on Voyager.

He was obviously in the killing game. played car and on enterprise he was a nossican captain and a tukrit captain oh so five different characters lots of makeup most of them i think were in except for maybe chief burke um on ds nine might might have been a human form but otherwise he was uh he was a prosthetic guy very talented uh he also was on the kelsey grammar series boss he was a recurring kind of regular on that show with Kelsey Grammer. And my favorite credit of Danny Goldrings is he was on the soap opera Search for Tomorrow back in the late 70s and into the 80s. He did that one. He did a soap opera called Search for Tomorrow. And I was doing soaps when you were doing sobs. When I was,

yeah, maybe a little before me. Search for Tomorrow back when I was living in New York in the 80s, there were a lot of soap operas in New York City. Oh, yeah. search was one of those soaps that was in a very public place. They had an old theater, was their television studio, it was an old kind of theater on Broadway on the Upper West Side near 80th Street or something. So you could see a big marquee and it said search for tomorrow studios, but it looked like a theater. So it was very, you know, publicly, very visible in New York.

You know, often movie studios and film studios are you wouldn't. recognize it because it's a warehouse or something very very hard to recognize but search for tomorrow was I always thought that was one of the first soap studios that I saw in New York City because it was so public and I was like oh my gosh they make a TV show there that's crazy so they had the huge sign above the building so everyone knew what it was like a Broadway theater it was like you know what they do the the late show in New York yeah yes yes yes it was like David Letterman was there okay and there's a marquee outside and it says the show up on the marquee.

This was the same thing. It was an old New York theater that was now a TV studio. Right. Wow. And, yeah. Okay. That's funny.

That's Danny Goldring. Let's see. Mark Deacons played Tarange. Tarange, yes. I called him the young, the rebel. The young agro. Yes.

Right. He's just a little bit like, kill, kill, kill, kill. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mark Deacons had did a lot of Star Trek, too. He was in a Voyager episode Axum.

He played the role of axiom and then five of 12 in Unimatrix Zero. So the Borg episode started as a human and then was assimilated into five of 12. He's like a Voyager regular in terms of guest stars, right? Okay. Yes. And he was also Tarange, obviously, in the killing game. And then he was also in the movie Star Trek Insurrection. Oh.

Had a role in that. So Mark Deacons did a lot of a lot of Trek. Mark Metcalf, the Herogen Medic, who was in with Picardo in the Sick Bay, he is known for playing Doug Niedermeyer in the movie Animal House. No way! That's the same actor? Mark Metcalfe is the same actor played Doug Niedermeyermeyer. He was also the master in Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Oh my God.

And he's also very known for the music video, Twisted Sun. sister's music video, we're not going to take it where he was the abusive father. Oh, he's the dad in that, too. He's the dad. Oh, my goodness. Wow, he's a celeb. He's a celebrity to me. He's a real celeb.

Man, if I had known that when we were filming, I would have taken a photo with him. I would have gone. I know. Bad gumbet. But see, when they're in the Herojan makeup, you don't know who they are underneath there. No, and the Herogens all look kind of similar. It's the one criticism I'd have of the Herojan as an alien is. It's hard to tell who's who.

Yeah, that's true. They all kind of blend together. That's true. We had in a human form as a evil Nazi handsome man, J. Paul Bomer, Jay Paul Bomer, please. Did you just call him an evil Nazi handsome man? That is what you said? Okay. Evil Nazi handsome, Enh M.

So he's an E.N.HM. Evil Nazi handsome man. Okay. Yep, that was Paul. Jay Paul. Boomer. Yeah. I think he goes by Paul.

remember. Okay. Yeah. He was trained in the classical theater. And our Killing Game episode was his first job in L.A. It was his first ever television episode. Goodness. And he was cast as this Capiton, didn't really have a name.

It was just the Capiton. Yeah. But it turns out he was a big fan of the original series. Wow. And so he was thrilled to be working on our show. I'm going to say, Robbie, I'm going to say kudos to Paul because typically, and you're probably going to agree with me on this. Typically, when you come straight from theater to your very first non-theater project, you're so big because you're so used to playing to the back of the house that everything that you do is almost too big, you know, for film. He was really good.

He was absolutely perfect. My goodness. Okay. I think a lot of the actors and even the background, the background. the background actors, the extras that didn't have any lines as the cafe patrons, the bar patrons, the Nazis, whatever. I thought they were all really good. Yes.

It was really fun to watch. Agreed. Lastly, I will talk about Paul Eckstein, who plays the Young Horogen. He did many tracks. He did on Voyager, he did Gravity, Killing Game, Prophecy, and Flesh and Blood. He did four. Paul Eckstein did four episodes of Voyager on DS9. He did two episodes.

Rox and Joles was one episode and Dogs of War was another. I think Paul Eckstein was very good friends with either Joe Minoski or and or who else? Maybe Brannon as well. I think Paul was, Paul ended up becoming a writer, a very successful writer. He started with a naked angels theater company. Oh. He, I think, had something to do with the creation of Narcos, the series.

Oh, great. He also wrote on the Dead Zone with a lot of Trek alumni. So Paul Eckstein, very successful and busy Trek actor, but also writer. What did he play in this episode? Does it say? He was the young Herojin. So, well, I thought Tarange was the young Herojan. Maybe there was another young Herojan.

Wasn't there another one that was, there's another heroine? Horogen. He's credited as young Horogen. So he was either on the street. He's the guy that interrogated me probably in the mess hall. When I get beaten back by a background, Horogen and the other guy is like, show me the communication subroutine you speak of. That guy. Yeah. I'm thinking that's it was probably that one in the mess hall. Okay. Where you were very clever and talked your way out of that. I was very was. Yes. Thank you so much. Do you know this episode was nominated for Emmy for outstanding hair styling. Well, I believe it. Look at all the 30s and 40s kind of

hairstyling going on. It looked amazing on Torres and on Janeway and seven. They all look seven. Wonderful. Your hair looked pretty snazzy too. I liked your hair. I did. I liked it all messy. The spider look. Yeah. By the way, I did read about some trivia about this as I was looking up credits. Let's hear it. Let's hear it. That when they wrote Harry's role on the bridge. They were a little bit like, just put Harry on the bridge. He's the only one, like, we can't figure out what to do with him.

Let's put him on the bridge. They loved what you did, the edge that you brought to your performance so much, at least from some of the stuff I read, that that is what led them to writing the episode Timeless for Harry playing the role that he did. This episode, even though you didn't have a lot to do,

the way that you did it, inspired them to right timeless. Interesting. And the edgy, you know, a really edgy, you know, uh, go get her Harry Kim. Right. And it's just a lesson to me of like sometimes, you know, we always think, oh, we want to be doing more in our lives. We want to have more of the bigger house or whatever. Yeah. The bigger thing, the better job, the blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But this was just a great lesson when I read that. I was like, it's just a reminder. Like make the best of what you got. And that's going to lead to the to the other thing like just be in the moment do 100% with what you got right now and it'll pay off like that's going to get noticed and it'll pay off yeah because i talked about this earlier with

you about how the other two-parter which was futures end part part one and two which interestingly enough was also a brandon braga written episode right um and then this two-parter i really did feel like the backup running back on the bench i was like okay you know you're going to put me you're not going to let me come down to Earth and in Future's End and hang out in, you know, in Santa Monica like you guys got to do and wear modern cool, well, they were cool clothes then. They're not cool clothes. Yes. No, they're dad jeans now.

They're dad jeans now, exactly. But then, and then it happened again on this one. I kept thinking, man, I keep getting relegated to the bench. And I guess this one performance from what you read pushed me to give me, was able to get me that one choice role on the 100th episode of Timeless. Yeah, these were from interviews with like Monoski and Brandon Brogert, Joe Manoskin, Brandon Brogra, that both said the same thing, that seeing what you did, even though it wasn't a lot of screen time, made them think, oh, Harry Kim can play a different way than we imagined before.

Yeah, I was really, you know, for me, when I read the script, I was thinking, okay, so this thing has been going on or these, this Herogen takeover. has happened for it's been more than two weeks now right so harry has just been overworked and and beaten and hit you know constantly to do the horogen's bidding and so the very first scene that you see harry and he's working on that one open console there um i really wanted to just to give off the the um the notion that he was exhausted just exhausted and just at his at the at the wits end and he couldn't you know, it just couldn't even process any information. And so I tried my best to to really give my all to this role.

Well, you did. Paid off. Thank you. I appreciate it. Paid off. All right, man. Okay, so we start with Janeway as a Klingon. Yes.

And I didn't know it was Janeway at first. I was like, who is that? It was real tight. And she was right in the middle of a fight scene. Yeah. But then the voice, I was like, wait a minute. That's Kate. turns out Kate can fight pretty good.

It looked like she did her own stunts except for the one fall. Yeah. I'm going to say, I'm going to say my notes here are I'm very impressed with Cape Mulgrew. She really stepped up her game. Okay.

Here, she's clearly doing her own stunts. And she looked very athletic. And so I was quite impressed. I was quite impressed. She really took on the persona of a Klingon warrior. So I was happy. But she's fighting. And yeah, great fight.

sequence and it looks like she's kind of defeated these clingons or at least held her own for the moment and then all of a sudden this horogen pops in yeah and you're like what the heck is going on here janeway's a cling on what's happening right there's a horogen and then he stabs her yeah and she falls down dying what a what a flashy opening i was like yeah what the heck is happening yes uh we go to sick bay and there's this alpha heroogen car. But before we go to sick base, sorry, there is an exterior space shot of Voyager flanked by horogen vessels, right? So we do have that to show that Voyager is now just, you know, under the control. Surrounded, yes, under control by multiple horogen vessels. And I do think that,

I do feel that budget wise, they were only able to put in four or five horogen vessels, but in reality, there should have been 20 or 30 of them. Yeah. I mean, a lot more horogen vessels. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's clear from that space shot that Voyager is has been captured. Yes. You know. Okay. So now we go to sick bay and the alpha Horogen's there. Janeway's on the bed, on the bio bed and she's being treated by this horogen medic. Yeah. That she got when she got injured in as a Klingon in this holographic holodeck fight and we learned that she is going to survive. And then a car says, well, check the neural interface, make sure it's stable. And so they sort of

scan something that we assume is under her skin or, you know, something in there. And he says, yes, it's stable. And we realize that this neural interface is making her believe, they say, whatever they program it. So they actually believe that this holographic program is real. They don't, you know, Janeway doesn't know that she's Janeway. Right. Seven doesn't know that she's seven. None of us know. There's no awareness that you're, that you're part of the Starfleet crew. You think you are a character in a holodeck program. Exactly. And this little detail, although it's critical for the story to work, is part of my criticism of this episode as well. Okay. All right. Let me hear it. Like from a sci-fi standpoint, and I'll, and I'll set this up now,

and then we can talk about it as we go through. Sure. But when you start watching an episode of Voyager, where none of the characters are playing their normal characters. Ah, okay. They're playing a different character. And so all of the relationships and values and investment that we have in them as characters isn't as effective because they're not even aware of it.

They're playing some other fake character that I have no idea. I'm not invested in. And I wish that this sci-fi idea of this neural interface, I wish they'd gotten rid of it earlier. I wish we had seen our people understanding who they were

much, much earlier in the story because I think I would have been along for the ride more. It was a beautifully produced episode. It was an intelligently conceived episode, but from a heart place, from like a, oh, I'm invested in Janeway's story or Seven story or Tuvok story

or Balana story or Tom or Tricote, the people that were in these. I wasn't. It was hard for me to take that leap into emotionally connecting with this story because they didn't know who they were. That's my criticism. That's my fundamental as we go through, I'll tell you. I hear you. Now, I'm on the, I'm on the diametrically opposite end of this scale with you because I loved the fact that all these characters were playing other characters. I loved seeing Janeway as Klingon, speaking Klingon. I loved Torres later, especially that one part where she kind of feints in front of the German headquarters and she has to speak

German to the German guard. This is kind of stuff that for me, it was an adventure. This was storytelling at its best for me. I loved seeing these other characters. I did not care that they had no awareness of who they were. I thought that was a wonderful way to a wonderful technique or a wonderful tool that Brannon and Joe used so that the characters could play these other characters to the fullest ability. Right. So for me, I'm okay with it. I actually liked it. Yeah. And I get, I get like, again, intellectually, I like the idea at this point in our story. I was like, oh, that's cool. They don't know who they are. That's cool. But as it went on and on and on, I wish that they had somehow realized who they were.

They could have kept pretending to be these characters. They could have, they would still have the same situation in the game. They would have to blow up the Nazi headquarters. They would have to do all the things that they do. But yet they would have been aware. Okay. But didn't you like the fact that even though they don't know who they are, each character's innermost, you know, values came out.

They still popped out because Tuvok was still being logical, right? And Neelix was still giving Tuvok crap about, why are you so logical, even though they don't know that they are who they are. I liked that interweaving of each character slowly coming out a little bit when they were playing the other characters. I thought that was so cool. I thought it was interesting, but again, I feel like it's an. an interesting idea that went on way too long for me.

Okay. Because it lost, I lost my investment. Like, if they had fundamentally at their core been similar to their characters and started having this awareness of like, you know, this doesn't feel something about something's weird. Yeah. I would have been more interested. If they had just had a little bit of like a crack in their awareness of why am I doing this and wait, you know, something's off or I don't know.

Okay. Well, you know, let us agree to disagree. Let's, yeah, absolutely. So then Alpha Hirogyn tells the Herojin to bring Jainway to Holladik. One, there is a conflict that took place on her planet, which should be stimulating, which is what the Alpha Herogen tells the medic.

And we go to Holladick 1, where we see seven singing. She's got that 40s hairstyle going on. She's dressed to the non-year-oldeux. to the nines. She's dressed to the seven of nines. And Tuvac is the bartender. Kate is playing the role of Katrin, where she is the owner of the Lecourt de Leon, which is a bar slash restaurant, dinner, supper club, whatever you want to call it. And her moniker to everyone is, the first round is on the house as long as you leave the war outside. And she's saying that to everyone. And you see the whole, you know, the whole establishment is filled with, with patrons. And a lot of them are

wearing German uniforms, officer uniforms, and they're watching. And so now you know, this is French, this is, occupied France. Sorry, this is, yeah, this is German occupied France. We realize that. And Duvac alerts Janeway that the new commandant has arrived, which is the Alpha Horogen. She sends him a bottle of the Chateau Latour. And I love how two, Yuva goes, the 29, and Kate goes, or Katrin goes, I hate to waste good wine. Give him the 36. So she gives him the crappier version of the Chateau Latteau. And Jerry finishes singing and is grabbed by the young Horogen Taranj, who says he wants her to sing more. She refuses and asks him to let go of her arm. And he then gets up and says that he will hunt her down and adorn his ship

with her bones, at which point Alpha Hirogyn gets up and says, look, sit down, play the game. There's no, there's no ships in this game. Stop. Yeah. Stop it. Don't bring up the ship. No, don't bring that up. You're going to confuse the locals.

We're going to confuse these zombies that we've programmed so they don't know who they are. Right. And we don't really know. And now we know there's a name assigned to 7 of 9. Madame is what, Mademoiselle Le Neuf is what she said. Oh, that's right. Or Dinov, Deneuve and Linov, one of the two. We'll be glad to sing more after she freshenes up is what Katrin tells the Alpha Hirogen.

Janeway says, yeah, go freshen up. She'll be glad to sing more. Yeah, I just want to add right here, this is so funny to me to watch Jerry Ryan playing a member of the French resistance. Because Jerry Ryan, Jerry's maiden name is Zimmerman. And in the German language, you would say, Tsimaman. And so she is a product of a German father and a German mother. She is 100% German. In Jerry Ryan's childhood home, she told me, on the walls were pictures of relatives in the U.S. Army during World War II and relatives that were in the German army on the wall.

So she had both of these photos on the wall of relatives that served on both sides, which I thought was very, very interesting. So it's got to be confusing. Yeah, a little confusing for sure. So seven goes off to freshen up. I noticed in this moment that Kate was looking up really high. And the Herojin were when the angle on the Herojin. And I remembered back to when we introduced the Herojin and we had Tiny Ron, who was seven foot two or whatever. And I was like, oh, they're going back to the super tall Herojin.

But then as Janeway talks to them, you realize, no, they're standing on a platform. and they came down. And then she sat next to the, to the, you know, car or whatever. And she's the same size. Like, they've abandoned the whole seven foot Herodians. But for a moment, I was like, oh, cool. The Herogen are going to be seven feet tall again. But they weren't.

They were just normal size. Were you looking for Tony Todd? Were you looking around? Where's Tony? Where's Tony? Where is Tony Todd nowhere to be found. Tall Tony was nowhere to be found. No.

These are all regular size Herogen. Yeah. So the bar a little bit later, Janeway tells us. seven to make a trip to the countryside to purchase an oscillator. Seven wants to purchase explosives instead. She says that this is not a priority. We need explosives more than an oscillator. And the same tension that we have on Voyager between Janeway and Seven is now, has now creeped into this holodeck program, even though they're not even aware of who they are. And again, this is why I love this episode, because you can see the same stuff that you have seen already up to this

point that's going on between Janeway and Seven is happening here between Catrin and Mademoiselle Le Nuffe. So let me ask you, like in the Captain Proton down the road, in the Captain Proton holiday, we were able to play characters, but yet have an awareness that we were playing characters. So both our Star Trek persona and the character in the holodeck we were playing could come out together. Yeah. I don't know why we couldn't, because you do point out it's a similar dynamic.

So why couldn't we have found, I know it would take away a major plot point that we're trying to figure out how to let the people know that they're just in a game. And that doesn't happen until the end of the episode. But I just think, like I said, I think that if there had been some awareness that they knew they were in a game, and we're still trying to solve it, I think. But if they know that they're in the game, they're going to, they're going to rebel and they're going to ruin the whole program. You know, it's all about the neural interface was put, placed on all the Starfleet personnel

because they need, the Herodian needed them to be part of the simulation. And if they didn't do that, then Janeway would have gotten together with Tuvok and said, okay, what are our plans to overtake Herodian? Let's do this. And it would have been, it just would have been this firefight between the Horogen and the, and the Starfleet personnel. And I feel that that's the whole reason why they have. have the neural interfaces and it was important. And at the same time, you know, the stakes are high.

All the safety protocols are off. There's no safety protocol on. So if any of the, any of the, any of the weapons end up hitting somebody's, you know, skull into the brain, they're done, right? So that's the end of, that's end. That's the end game. So I felt like it was necessary to have this and without the awareness. But the good thing is by the end of this episode, at least one person or two people have awareness. It's seven in Janeway. And then we have a whole other episode to deal with. And I do, I do see your point when I see it clearly. But I, it's a tricky one. I think for me, just because I really did struggle with being invested in this episode, which surprised me. Because my memory of making it was how much fun it was. I know the fans love it. And I'm probably

in the minority here. But the flaw to me, as I watched it was, I missed our regular character. having an awareness of their relationships. Like, it just kept me from, it kept me from feeling like, oh, I'm watching people I know in relationships I know. I was like, okay, all right, get your memory back.

I know you're going to get your memory back, so just get it back so we can see the people we know. Well, just like you gave me advice to relax a little bit and have fun to do the limericks. I'm going to say to you, relax and have a little fun while watching voyage. Okay, just go with it.

I'm going to go with it from now on. Just go with it. Okay, so now after, Janeway orders Seven to do what she's, you know, ordered to do. Get the oscillator. Seven walks away. Tuvok then expresses his concern over Seven's actions, which has put their identities at risk. They are members of the French resistance, which is, you know, punishable by death or torture.

They're going to be tortured if they're found out. So Janeway tells Tuvok that Seven should be followed just to see if their munitions expert is a Nazi infiltrator. and then we jump up to the next scene we're in the town the town square oh by the way that was Robbie that wasn't I was wrong that was not Warner Brothers that was universal correct yes this is universal this is universal yes European street correct and and I've shot here on other shows a bunch and I have to just from the start say David Livingston and Marvin Rush did a phenomenal job of using every inch of that back lot and the art department in dressing it and the background and everybody it is not easy

to shoot on that back lot. I've directed back there a number of times different shows. And it's hard to it's hard to take advantage of the scale and the scope of that place because you got to have lights. You got to have. It's just challenging. And they did a phenomenal job in this episode of filming that back lot. It did a beautiful job. Yeah. And I realized that immediately when I when I saw the the town square. I was like, wait a minute, that is not 400 brothers like I thought it was. It is clearly universal, but you're right. He did an amazing job. It looked wonderful. It looked fabulous.

Really, really looked good. And Neelix is riding his bike through the French village. So they've got a camera in front of him. And I got to say, Ethan Phillips did a great job of controlling that bicycle. The speed and everything. riding along with the camera. It's not easy for actors

to do. No. He's probably going much slower than you would naturally go. Correct. so that he can keep the movement smooth. And he's stopping gently, not suddenly. That was a challenging shot for Ethan to, you know, collaborate with the camera team on whatever, whether they were on a cart or whatever they, however they put the camera.

I have a question for you. Is that street a fake cobblestone street? Because he's not really bump. He's not bumping up and down as he rides. And neither is the camera, right? So, well, the camera, they could have stayed. they could have stabilized with a steady cam or some kind of stabilizer on whatever tool if they were using, you know, a golf cart or whatever kind of thing they put the camera on. But I think there are cobblestones up there, but not through the whole back lot. Just parts of it have copies. Because I don't remember him bumping around. Yeah, I don't either. So, okay. He almost ran into a fruit card or something. I saw him that take. He was like, whoa. He got dodged around. He did. It was great. I thought it was really, really good.

Yeah, he did a good job. And Nelix gets stopped and questioned and then ultimately released. Oh, yeah. And they break the bread to see if there's anything in there. He dumps out the wine. He dumps out his wine. He looks in the bottle. Like, are you trying to, you know, smuggle anything past us?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And but he gets by. Yeah. And then we go in to discover Balana, who is now called Brigitte, she is listening to a radio broadcast from England. Correct, but they're back in Lecair de Leon, the bar slash supper club during the daytime now, right?

And she's listening to this British weather forecast on the radio. Yes, a lot of numbers in it. You know, it's 47 degrees. And then here, you know, a lot of numbers. You're like, hmm, something, this message will repeat in 45 seconds. Exactly. So you're like something. And then she hears someone coming in.

she changes the station real quick to like music or something and then it's neelix right coming in and so they go back to the radio thing and you realize neelix is smuggling something it's on the label the wine label how smart and he peels it off carefully and on the back is a code for this week so that they can use that's a code it's a code key that they can use that to get the message off this radio broadcast that keeps repeating. Yeah. So very clever. I think I did hear that Joe Mnowski, when he lived in Europe for quite a few years,

he was deeply immersed in the details of World War II. Really? Because it was European histories. I need to talk to Monoski then, because this is, we have that in common. You know, I talked about my love of World War II era stories. He tried to get a World War II story because he had been so immersed and he pitched a bunch of them and never they never quite fit until this until this idea so i love it i love it and it's just ingenious that the coat keys in the back of the wine label i didn't expect that right so this is a lot

a lot of this detail came from monosky and he said he would just watch television you know all night long with yeah documentaries and history and just got really wrapped up in it oh yeah and this is the point where nilix razzes tuvok about being so logical right so this is this is why i loved it it was like even though they don't know who they are, still their true essence is still coming out. The secret message, the American 4th Infantry, is to invade Saint-Claire Tuesday at dawn, requiring assistance from the French resistance to disable enemy communications. So we learned that this is what, you know, the U.S. troops are going to do. And Torres is the one.

So your lady suggests that a plan needs to be hatched where she visits her special friend. at the German headquarters. She does. And we also see that she is pregnant. And this is at the point where Roxanne Dawson was pregnant in real life. We had been hiding that on the ship every episode. It was not easy to do. But they wrote it into this episode that she could just be pregnant.

Another reason why I love this episode. They wrote in her pregnant belly. Come on, man. There's so many cool little twist and turns, Robbie. Come on. It was cool. It's cool. Oh, that's cool. I'm with you.

Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh, my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after a trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What?

Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. Well, that is why I made the switch to Mitt Mobile. The coverage and speed are the same. as I'm used to, but the savings, that is the difference. The savings are incredible. And now I'm saving all kinds of money for when my stepdaughter wants to go back to school shopping. She's currently at the mall right now as we speak. Well, all the Mint Mobile plans come with

high-speed data, unlimited talking tax, and they deliver the nation's largest 5G network. So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash TDF. That's That's mintmobile.com slash TDF. Up front payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra.

See MintMobile for details. He's outside the German headquarters. As she's walking up, two local ladies spit at her because they know that she's in a relationship with the SS officer. And she stumbles at the entrance, pretending to faint a little bit. She's assisted by a German guard who then asked her what's wrong in German. And she says, I have to come and see, you know, Capitan. And she speaks a little German there, which I was so excited to hear.

I'm like, yes, very good. And so this was, you know, I wrote down great use of her real life pregnancy is what I got down, right? And then this whole scene inside the German headquarters with Alpha Horogen slash commandant slash colonel speaking with the SS captain. Capitan, yeah, it's just, it's crazy, just talking about the master race and talking about their destiny and how they deserve, the German people deserve all of Europe. And it was just, oh, I was getting goosebumps during this whole thing.

And then Alpha Hirogen kind of challenges him and says, and warns him to not underestimate the enemy or slash prey, right? And he's confused because he's just a holiday character. He has no clue what's going on. And then Torres enters, and this is when we discover what her name is, because we don't know her name until this point, because Capitan yells out, Brigitte, and, you know, she's, she's there to see him. Alpha Hirogyn excuses himself.

And then she sort of makes note of the communication station that is in the room there. Yeah, she's pretending. She's pretending to be interested in the artwork. She's looking at the art and all these beautiful things. Yeah, yeah. But she does notice she catches the radio man and sees that. You know, a reconnaissance mission and well-written and well-strategized. I enjoyed that scene.

We go back on the street and Taranj is there and he's just getting really impatient. He wants to hunt. He's tired of waiting. He's learned enough about this prey. He wants a fight. He clocks Neelix again on the street and pulls out his gun and shoots at Neelix. Right. And this starts a gun fight.

Seven shows up. She pulls out a pistol. She fires back. They retreat. There's this whole chase sequence that was wonderful where they're shooting. And it's interesting. I was watching this and remembering back when we did this, there were a lot of guns on the set.

There were a lot of period weapons. And there was a lot of gunfire that was live blanks. Right. Because when Tuvok was firing. his automatic rifle you could see the muzzle flashes coming out of it sporadically and that happens with live blank ammunition and i was just thinking boy i wonder how different things would be these days because having that many weapons on set is just you know the safety of it all as we all know as a big deal these days and i think we probably would have had a lot more if we did it now

we'd have a lot more, you know, plastic replicas and things like that. We'd probably be putting in muzzle flashes in post-production and Viz effects and things like that. But I do remember some of these scenes there was a lot of live gunfire. We had blanks. We had earplugs in, all of that. Before Taranj opens fire on Neelix, he does say the wonderful line, avoid the cranium. Oh, yes. Yes, because if you don't avoid the cranium, then you're,

going to lose all the prey. You need to keep the prey alive, right? Yeah. So after their shot, Taranj and his fellow Herojin walk over to the inert bodies of Seven and Nelix and says, let's take them to the medical bay. So they are then taken to the medical bay. And we are now in sick bay and the doctor is there. He's complaining about the treatment of the crew. And we learned that the Herojin have been on Voyager for the past three weeks. So this is the first time we get a time, any semblance of time. So we know it's been three weeks now that they have taken over Voyager. The Alpha Hirogyne arrives and the Herogen medic is the one that informs the alpha horogen that Tarange or Tarange, maybe I'm giving it a soft day by mistake. Tarange caused

severe injuries to seven in Neelix. And the doctor tells the Alpha Herogen that he should engage the safety protocols on the holodex for not only for the safety of of the Starfleet crew members, but of the Herojin hunters. And the Alpha Herojin says no, no, because this is going to eliminate the challenge. There will be no more challenge if we do that. Neelix is sent to Holladeck 2 to become a Klingon, while 7 is returned to Holladick 1 because Alpha Horogen likes her voice. And we also learn in this.

The doctor is really cracking here. He says at one point, he says, you know, this has been three weeks of this hunt, hunting. and many people have been stabbed, shot, beaten, phasered, and bat-lift, he says, and he says, there's even been one fatality that even though they're not trying to kill them, someone has died. And we don't know who, and some unnamed crew member has died, but we know that there's been, he says, weeks of blood sport. Which raises the stakes, you know, that one line alone.

Now we know one crew member is dead because of us. Yep. Yeah. And Harry is working. on the panel, and he is beat up. He has got grease on his face and his hair's hanging down. He's bruised as well. He's been, he's been hit a couple of times already.

Yeah. The Alpha Hirogyne asked for a progress report. Kim has expanded the holodex by 5,000 square meters, which is, that's no small amount of space. That's a lot of, that's pretty big. But the Alpha Hirogyn wants more. He's like, that's not enough. I need more. you know, this conversation goes back and forth. Kim says, well, I can't give you anymore.

And he says, well, why not? Use that energy. Primary systems are going to be compromising. Well, they compromise them. So he doesn't, alpha erogen doesn't care. He wants to turn the entire ship into a Herogen training facility, basically. A Horogen hunting ground facility is what he wants, right? Yep. Yeah. So then we jump over the corridor. Kim is, is, is, do you remember the name of that background actor? David Anderson. Is that David? That's David.

Right, right, right. That's David. And I looked this up because I was like, David Anderson, yeah, I looked it up. This crew member is called Ashmore. I guess there's a name. I don't know if we ever said it. Or if it's just sort of developed in Star Trek fandom. I have no idea. David Anderson shows up a lot. He was a stand in on our show. Yeah. Shows up a lot as a background artist. And he's got a name from somewhere. I had no clue. I had no clue. I had no clue. I just remember he was. He was a cool guy, you know, I got along with him. Very cool guy. Yeah. So Kim and Ashmore are working on hollow emitters in the corridor. And Kim gets Ashmore to request a type 3 isolinear emitter from engineering as a distraction

from the one Herojan guard that's standing there with that massive disruptor rifle that he's holding. So he goes away with the Herojan and Kim then transfers the doctor into the corridor, the doctor fizzes in and the doctor is like what's going on and Kim says I have a plan a half a plan that's what I have to retake the ship. We have to get the crew back by disabling the neural interfaces. So Kim has basically found a way to tap into the sick bay diagnostic console but there is a catch and before he can say that there's a catch, the Herogen returns. So Kim quickly acts like there, he says, okay, just stay right there. I just have to do one more thing around the corner and he transfers the doctor's program to the round the corner the doctor fizzes back in and the

doctor asks what's the catch he says well somebody has to be inside the holodeck to engage the bridge control relays just i don't know who that could be and the doctor says well we do have a borg so why don't we use her and then we leave we jump out of that scene yeah so it's harry's plan this is harry's idea to with the doctor and seven of nine yeah uh kind of a teamwork situation there to start disengaging these neural transmitters. So then we go into the ready room and Carr is telling Tarange that he's been studying Voyager's database, looking for another simulation after this World War II simulation. And I noticed in the Ready Room that it was completely redecorated with all kinds of

weapons and bones and netting. It's like it's now a herodian. It's a rogian ship. Yeah. I love that line. when he's when he's looking for another simulation there are many to choose from these people have a violent history which really it's so true i mean we we've had a very violent history and then he believes that he's found a worthy prey a borg and they want to recreate the battle uh wolf 359 but then

he says if you continue to disobey me this is the one hunt that you will never see so he threatens to roj he says listen you know your your lust for the kill has blinded you like like many young hunters. And the issue is their way of life has been the same way of life for 1,000 years. And Alpha Horogen truly believes, I mean, he is a visionary. When it comes to Horogen, he's a visionary. He's very progressive. And he says, species that do not change, die. These holodecks will allow us to hold on to our past while we face the future. So again, you know, just what came down to in his argument, he said, because we've been driven by the hunt and hunting as isolated individuals that we've scattered throughout the galaxy.

And we need to come back together or we're going to cease to be. And our culture has been so scattered. We're spread too thin. We need to come back together and rebuild our society and our and our Herojan way of life. And evolve. You're absolutely right. So the holodex are the key to holding on to this past and coming back together. Which for me, it adds a whole other layer because it's not just about Herogen hunting prey and, you know, injuring or killing or, you know, somewhat killing them. And then they're being revived and being thrown back in there. It's not just that. There's also this layer of the lead Herogen trying to adapt technology to help save his species. You know, so then, then you start to feel a little bit, okay, hmm, these guys are,

they're more than what they seem to be. You know, you start to, you start to cheer a little, it's more complicated. It's more complicated. Yeah, but you start to cheer for the Hurogen a little bit. You start to feel for the Herojin's like, oh, wow, they could be. You have some sympathy for sure. Yeah, there's some sympathy.

That's the word I'm looking for. Yeah. So we go to Sick Bay and Seven's waking out. The doctor's working on her. And the doctor's like, what do you remember? What's the last thing you remember? And she says, I remember the Herojin boarding the ship. And I was in a gunfight.

And that's kind of it. That's all she remembered. She doesn't remember any of this holodeck simulation. No. The neural transmitters have been blocking all of that. So she doesn't know what's going on. And the doctor fills her in. And the way he fills her in is the classic Star Trek Voyager way

where you stand two inches from someone's face and you get into a real tight shot that's awkward that no human being would ever do. And you whisper because that is so close. Yes, but he does that from every angle possible. He's like, I'm going to do it from here for her. Then I'm going to go for the back of her head and then I'm going to go to the other side of her face. It was like, it was like, that part was comical to me. I was like, really?

It went on a little too long. I did have a criticism here of like, I think the director should have had him pretending to do some work and then going down and whispering something. And then going and doing some more work and coming back. Yes. It felt like if you're trying to be sneaky, you wouldn't go down there and for two or three minutes stand right next to someone's ear. You're totally right. You must add some business. you must add some business for the doctor in between, you know, every three lines because

there's so much information being thrown out there. Like you learn that one line where he says, you should see what a mess you were after the Crusades. So now you know that they actually were in the Crusades, which is mind-blowing to just imagine the entire Voyager crew is part of the Crusades in a simulation where they're getting hacked at with battle axes and swords and broad swords, right? So, boy, it's, it's, it's been a busy couple of weeks. Yeah, it's been a busy couple weeks.

Exactly. He's implanted a jamming signal into her neural transmitter. Seven's mission, according to the doctor, is she must find a control panel inside the holodeck and engage the bridge access relays, which will then enable Harry and the doctor to disable all the neural interfaces so that Janeway and the crew can mount a resistance. against the Herogen. So we're utilizing, or the doctor is utilizing a Borg, one of Seven's Borg implants. Yes.

It's remodulated and that will emit the jamming signal. And really, the jamming signal will activate once she returns to the Haldek. And she will be the first one who is aware of who she is, you know, after she's returned to the holodeck. So we see, and of course, the next scene is her in the French bar. She's singing with her lovely singing voice. And in mid-song, her neural interface is. deactivated.

Quicks on, exactly. She's like, oh, and she doesn't know the rest of the lyrics. She says, I must discontinue this activity. I am not well. So funny. I must discontinue this activity. I'm not well. I love it.

And the Alpha Hirogyne says, well, I thought she was going to, I'm only here to hear the singing, so I'm going to leave. And Janeway is like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Because she wants to get more information for the French resistance. So she walks over to seven and says, you need to keep singing. And Seven's like, no. I don't care if you're dying. Get back out.

I mean, the snappiness between Janeway and Seven is just classic Janeway seven. You know, it's coming out. And Janeway is not taking no for an answer, but Seven is also not going to do it. Tuvok then comes over and they talk about their suspicions regarding Seven and her recent behavior. She's probably a spy. We've got to be careful. And that's when we flash over to the U.S. base camp. And we finally see at the base.

Camp, Chakotay, and Tom Paris. They finally make a debut in this episode. And there you were walking in to talk to your, your Captain Miller. I think it's what, yeah. What's your name in this episode? Do you know your, I don't remember your Holodeck name? You don't remember. Are you Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. Oh, you're Bobby, but do you have a last name? You got to have a last thing, too. Bobby. Just Bobby. I can just Bobby. I can just see you with your name tag. Bobby. That's it. Well, Bobby. You're just Bobby. So the plans, you know, they're going through the plans. They're talking about the fact that there's no word in the morning. Yeah, there's no word from the resistance in St. Clair. And so Chacote says, don't count them in. No, no. That's not Chacote. It was Paris that

says that, right? He says, don't count them out. Paris says I was there. That's right. I know them. You know, yeah, Chukotay is like, don't count them in. We haven't heard anything. And Paris had been there when he was young, had met a girl and gotten to know the people. And he goes, don't, I know these people. They're good people. Don't count them out. That's right.

You spent a summer there when you were 18. Yeah, he says, yeah, and Chacote is like, tell me about this visit when you were 18. Yeah. And Paris says, her name was Brigitte, Great Gams, one hell of a temper. See? The characters, the character traits are still there. even though you don't know who you are. And then he says, sounds like you're kind of a girl after you say great gams,

one hell of a temper, sounds like you're kind of girl. And then you tell the exact day and time when you left your train. New the minute. August 29th, 1936. Bobby knew the minute. He said goodbye to Brigitte. Yes. Yeah.

You guys wrote, you guys were writing for three years. And then the war broke out and then no more communication. No more Brigitte stopped. No. Brigitte owes him a letter. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I got to say when I saw you in Chakotay, you and Beltran in the World War II American GI uniform, I was so envious of both of you. Because I told you, I love this part of history. And then I started thinking while I was watching it, I was like wondering, maybe Joe and Brennan felt, I don't know if we should have Harry, you know, Garrett Wong, an Asian American in American World War II. to garb. But I don't know if you know this, Robbie. The most highly decorated American military

combat unit is the 4-42 regimental combat team. This is an American infantry unit during World War II that was comprised of 99.9% Japanese Americans with one Korean American in there. They're the most highly decorated. Yet you don't see a lot of movies about these guys. You know, You see movies about the Tuskegee Airmen, the all black airmen, you know, they're wonderful. They did a lot of good things. But still, to this day, the all Asian American combat unit is the most highly decorated. And really, there should be a movie. Harry, there should be a movie.

They should have done a holodeck with Harry Kim leaving the 4-4-2. Yes. I could do a whole deep dive, Delta Flyers deep dive on the 4-42 and the 522, which is the all-Japanese American artillery unit. the MIS, the military intelligence service, which are the Japanese Americans who broke the Japanese military code, which then caused the Americans to win in the Pacific. Because without that, Yamamoto, Admiral Yamamoto was kicking the Americans' butts in the Pacific. So it was the Japanese Americans that were crucial to the American win in the Pacific, as well as the American win in the European campaign with the 442. So once again, this can be a whole deep dive. So we're back in the

bar and they're making their plan for disabling the communications in the in the headquarters in town in advance of the American invasion in the morning and they're going to plant a bomb because seven was a munitions expert right in this holodeck story and and janeway says you know we can't have any more mistakes seven says there will be any more mistakes promise yeah and she says that after she catches seven you remember that she catches seven And she says, you didn't connect the detonator. This isn't going to do anything if you don't have the detonator connected. But of course, seven as seven of nine doesn't know what the detonator is, right?

She's not a munitions. She is not a munizance. She is not mademoiselle, mademoiselle Le Nouve, de Nouve, she is just seven of nine. Okay, so now we're in the mess hall. And Harry is in the mess hall working on another open panel when the doctor, it comes in. Harry brings him in, transports him in over there with his, with the hollow emitters that are in the mess hall. And they start strategizing about what they're going to do. But then they are interrupted by two Horogen who once they come in quickly the doctor fritz is out. They ask

why Harry is there. Harry says, I'm trying to get the replicators back online because the food that we're eating, you know, is substandard. We need to eat better food. And don't you want better food? blah, blah, blah. And then the Herojan says, an unauthorized transmission was sent from this room. And Harry's like, oh, boy, I've been caught. Yeah. So then he has to sort of tap dance a little bit. And he says, oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I'm sorry. I must have, by mistake, tripped communication subroutine. It's my fault. You know, my bad. I'll take care of it. I'll be out of here. That was an accident. Oh, I'll be out of here. And that's when the other Herojin blocks his way. And says, nope, I want to see. Show me exactly.

show me what you were doing exactly what you were doing when this happened and harry's like you know i don't need to show you i'm i'm late for i'm late for getting to the bridge i got to go and that's when the second horogen takes his gun and smacks harry in the in the nose and knocks him back and i've always felt that they should have put they should have had blood just gushing out of my nose like they broke my nose that would have been more you know effective but being a family show i think they stayed away from massive amounts of blood, right? So Harry sort of says, okay, okay, you know, I'll tell you. I'll do what you, I'll do what you want me to do.

I'll show you, but you're the one that has to tell your superior that I am going to be late. And then this, this line, this sort of, it's a game of chicken is what it is, right? And he uses. You tell your boss that I'm going to be late. So Harry really, you take the blame for this. You take the blame, which you could be killed for this, basically, right? So I think Harry really had to think. Very smart move.

Yeah, he had to think under pressure. He had to maintain his cool. It was a smart move on Harry's part. And that gets him off the hook. Thinking fast on his, he was thinking fast on his feet. Or I should say, thinking fast on his bum because he was on his butt when he made that decision to say that. So he thought fast on his bum. And he was able to get out of that situation.

And I do remember making the conscious choice to kind of like shove that one hero. and that knocked me on the ground out of the way when I walked past. And I thought I would get in trouble. I thought, I thought Livingston was going to say, no, Garrett, you can't do that, but he let me do it. I'm like, okay, good, you know, because I'm still a little bit like, oh, you know, you got, you knock me on the ground. I'm going to push you a little bit, you know, which is kind of dangerous because that guy could usually kind of, you know, knock me upside the head again, but he didn't.

And David Livingston kept that in. He didn't push it out. Were you okay with that or did you, did that bother you? No, it didn't bother me at all. No, I thought it was good. I think it's part of the kind of edgier Harry that inspired them, like I said, for timeless. It's all those little things. That decision kind of helped me out, right?

So now we go back to the streets. We go back into the streets and we see a spotlight coming from the roofs. The Germans are, you know, scanning the streets. They're kind of empty streets. Yeah. Big shots I wrote down, though. Very impressive. Yeah.

Big, you know, beautiful spots. And we go inside the headquarters and we see the radio. Radio Man is working away and the door opens and then comes Janeway and Seven and the radio man. Janeway knocks the radio man out. I thought, again, good stunts from Kate. Yeah. And Seven starts working on this panel. And Janeway is looking at the message that the radio man was working on.

She puts the headset on, right? She puts the headset on and is listening and looking at the messages, what he's been writing. Yeah. And that gives Seven a chance to move some books out of the way. and go to trip this interface that she was asked to do. And that sends a warning signal that Harry hears on the bridge. He sees that the access relays have been enabled, right? And he left the doctor know.

Yes, he does let the doctor know. And we see the doctor working on his controls. And then all of a sudden, the neural interface on Janeway is disabled. and the doctor is then grabbed by the Herojan. But before this happens, Janeway notices that 7 is working on the console. So she thinks she thinks, yeah, she thinks she's sending a message, right? Yeah, the Germans. And she draws her sidearm.

She pulls her gun. Yeah. Has her gun on 7. She's ready to kill 7. She's about to shoot. She's about to shoot her. When the doctor disables this neural interface. And then she wakes up.

Make a time. Yeah. Wait a minute. What's going on? Seven? Captain. And see, this is great because at this point, everyone who's a fan of Voyager is like, oh, Captain Janeways herself again, you know?

So the moment has finally happened. The moment that you were lobbying for 30 minutes earlier. It's finally happened. Finally. Yes. Yes. I do have a question for you. So you did, did you guys do a night shoot or did they shoot day for night?

What was? Oh, no, that was a night shoot. It was a night shoot. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Which we didn't normally do those kind of things.

That was very rare for us. No, but there is a way to shoot daytime and make it night as well, too. You could, but yeah, they shot night for sure. Okay. I'm pretty sure. Right. And so while this is disconnected, we do jump over to the Klingon simulation with Nielis, which again, this is another reason why I love this episode,

because in the middle of them, they're about to engage the other Klingons in battle, right? They're standing on that precipice. And then Neelis goes, he's like, oh, I need to go hunt that targ, which is kind of like a wild boar, you know. And then even the alpha Herojin goes in the midst of battle, of coming battle. And he goes, there is no enemy as great as hunger. And because this is Nelix, the cook on Voyagers. This is Nelix coming through, which again, I love this. I love this.

So the Alpha orders Janeway to be removed from the simulation because he gets the message from the other Herogen that the doctor has disabled Janeway's neural interface. And then we go to the town square and that's where we see two Herogen hunters have now breached the simulation. They're in full armor. They have their, their phaser rifles and Tuvok sees them and just unloads all that submachine gun. Yeah.

I got to tell you right now, Tim Russ must have had a blast doing this. I mean, just letting it go. I mean, he's just, you know, spraying these hunters with the. these bullets. Yeah, we learned that there's 13 other Herojin hunters on this holodex simulation. Tuvac is then joined by Captain Miller. I don't see Bobby with Captain Miller at this point. Are you somewhere there? Because Bobby's going to, Bobby's going to show up in. Oh, that's right. Excuse me. You're in another. That's right. Yeah. Okay. So Captain Miller is with the fifth armored infantry we find out. Chacote then calls in the artillery unit to help out

Charlie 1, and that's when we jump back to the bridge and the Alpha Herogen comes in and basically shoves Harry against the wall. And I remember filming this. That hurt. That was not comfortable. Oh, my God, because we had to do multiple. You know, you know, Littleston. David Limison does typically, I don't know, 20 takes, eight to 20 takes when you're only supposed to do one to three. So getting shoved into a hard wall over and over again. It's not fun. But he says, like, how did you circumvent our control? And Harry says, go to hell! So maybe even that was what got me the timeless episode,

that little rebellious Harry right there. Now we jump to the bar. We're back to the bar. Torres is in there, and she's kind of, you know, she's nervous, she's concerned, she grabs a weapon. And around the corner, two people, we can't tell who they are. And coming around the corner.

It's Bobby. Yeah, it's Paris. Tom Paris pulls a gun. Bilan has got a gun. gone. They're in a standoff moment. Yes. And she goes, Bobby? And he goes, you owe me a postcard. Look at this writing, man.

Look at this writing. This is great writing. You owe me a postcard. Okay. Another line, which made me love this episode. Bobby, you owe me a postcard. Love it. Love it. Okay. All right. German headquarters. Janeway can't access the ship systems. But then she

realizes, well, wait a minute. The Americans are here. They're going to be targeting the headquarters of the Germans. This place is going to blow up any second. And they go on the run. And Outcome Seven and Janeway running away from the building as the building explodes behind them.

By the way, that was a model. So they shot them against the blue screen or green screen. And then they photographed, they built a model of the building and blew it up. It was a super cool action. A small scale model. Yeah, a small scale model.

But it looked great. It looked great. It looked really cool, very cool. Big explosion. And it blows up because the safety things were off, you know, whatever, it blew up some of the hollow emitters because the safety protocols are turned off. So, you know, bullets will hurt people and explosions will hurt the hollow emitters, which they do. Yeah, because it's the alpha herogen that asked Harry what happened.

He says a simulated explosion to Hall Deck 1, which then blew out the holligrid across three decks. So three decks have just been kind of, you know, blown out from this explosion. Yeah, and Alpha says, is the program still running? And Harry says, yes, it is still running. And he asked him to shut it down. He's like, I need you to shut down the hollow emitters. And Harry says, no, I can't do this because the program controls are offline. And Harry says, yeah, you wanted a war? Looks like you've got one. Oh, and before that, that other line with Tuvok and Chukotay, Tuvok says, what is it? And Chikote goes, looks like a bunker, some kind of secret Nazi compound.

He's still in character. Yeah. If you start to think about, if you're in 19, you know, in your 30s and 40s, and you see that image of the decks exposed, you have no clue what that could be. No, what is this? Yeah, no clue. Not at all. Oh, my gosh. And that's where we go off our cliffhanger, part one is done.

it's done. See you next week. It's done. And we got to wait till next week. We got to wait till next week. But I loved this. I know you did. I'm going to give this from one to ten. I'm going to give this a I give it a nine. I give it. Wow. And you are going to give it lower. I know this. So because of your, you know, issues. I think just because it was hard for me to fully engage and commit. Okay. These characters for such a long time. The last five minutes, I finally was like, okay, now I'm in. Now they're starting. Now I'm in.

Now I was 100% by the last five minutes. But before that, I kept thinking, come on, come on, people. So I'm going to give this a 7.5. Okay. That's because it was really well done. Okay. Really well done. Yeah.

This is a big undertaking with all the props and all the guns and all the, the costumes, the wardrobe, the sets, the shots and the shots and the, the in the back lot you know french town it was a beautifully and it's like a feature film this could have been a feature film it really could yeah you know just a lot of that one element of our characters not not knowing who they are not playing themselves for so long takes it down to a 7.5 for me see because you hung on to that too tightly you got to let go that Robbie got to let it just let it go that's all that's all what's your theme what's your theme I'm going to ask you're thing first.

I want to hear this first. My theme is, I wrote down, never underestimate your enemies or you will certainly be defeated. That was Carr's advice. He was like, don't underestimate your prey or they will kill you.

They will turn the tables. And so I feel like that's the theme for me is they underestimated Harry on the bridge and the doctor and they underestimated the Voyager crew and we're starting to get a Lego. So, well, I think the theme is, Neelix's famous words, there is no enemy as great as hunger. I mean, that was messing with you.

That's a good thing. That's not the theme. I think it's more from Alpha Hirogyn speech to Taranj when he's talking about, you know, you need to embrace change. You need to be able to embrace change. Otherwise, there will be no progress and you will be stagnant and you will quote unquote, die or you will cease to exist, right? So, and that's always something that human beings are always so afraid of is change. Like, oh my goodness, we have to do it the old way. Well, who says you got to do it

the old way? The old people? The people that are not even around anymore? I mean, come on, you know, just realize you need to be open-minded and embrace change. And especially with how technology has affected us in the last few decades, it's, you remember the day when nobody had a cell phone, okay? You and I both were alive when no one had a cell phone. So when you don't embrace change and when you don't embrace technology, you end up getting left behind. That's good. I like that. Okay. I like it. Excellent. Well, that was fun and I am on the edge of my seat for part two next week. So now that everybody's starting to know who the heck they are, now I mean, I'm ready. I'm ready for Man, oh, I'm so bummed that you, oh, yeah, I wish.

I'm still in, though. I'm still in. I know. I'm just, I'm bummed. I just thought you'd be more excited about this. Don't be bombed. I'm very excited. Okay.

I'm very excited to see next week for sure. Good, good. All right. Very excited. So next week, we will be reviewing Killing Game Part 2. I didn't even have to look that one up. I already knew what that was going to be next one. I hope so.

Yeah. I would hope so. Thanks, everyone for joining Robbie and I, and for all the Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everybody. Bye.