The Delta Flyers - Life Support

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Life Support, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Armin Shimerman.Life Support: Bashir is faced with an ethical dilemma when an accident seriously injures Vedek Bareil, a key player in peace talks with the Cardassians.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Danie Crofoot, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Hailey L., Cindy Woodford, & Mariette KarrAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Karen Galleski, Jeremy Conoley-Mayes, Jan Hanford, Loretta Reyes, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Helen Brownrigg, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Oscar Fernandez, Shawn Battershall, & Natalie SwainThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Arm and Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Hello, gentlemen. Hello, hello, hello. Hello. Hello. How is everybody?

Not bad. Armin went to a wedding this weekend of a mutual friend of ours, and I'm very jealous. I wasn't able to go. It was a lovely, lovely wedding. These people had been dating on and off for 30 years. I know, a long time. Is that the actual number count, Armagh? Actually, it's 31, 31.

Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, he had a ceremony after 31 years. After 31 years and it was well worth waiting for. It was a wonderful, wonderful. Yeah, he's, so his name is Steve. Steve and I were on a soap opera in New York City together. And then when I got in the soap, I needed an apartment at that time. So Steve asked his landline.

lord uh if there was an apartment and there was an apartment right below him same exact apartment available on this five-story brownstone walk up so steve and i lived above and below each other for john a lee with john a lee was also yeah not in that apartment but john a lee was around for sure yeah small world small world i did not know that was your connection yeah this is an old connection, Robbie. Very old. I was 19, 20 years old, yeah. I've known Steve a long, I've known Steve, yes, a long, long time.

What's the age difference? How much older is Steve than you, Robbie, would you say? Well, I'll be 60. I'm 60, so, and he's 64? Yeah, that's close. Okay. Something like that. Maybe four years.

You know what? Four or five. I know him to be a little bit older. Yeah, I think so too. Because he said something to me recently, so I know him to be a little older. But he's young at heart. Was he a bit of a mentor to you? Or no.

Yeah, a little bit. We were very good friends. And another mutual friend of ours, Bob Gentry, who's passed away, had a country house. And Steve and I would help build this, you know, renovate this country house. So we'd be out in Bridge Hampton all the time helping Bob with his house. And so we were kind of, I think Bob was more of a mentor to Steve and me. Okay. Yeah, he was an older gentleman.

Well, that makes sense. Yeah. And Stephen and his fiancée, Amanda, have gone on long hikes with Kitty and I in England and in Italy. In fact, I hike in Italy, I thought they were going to break up for good in that one. But obviously I was wrong, and I'm happy to say I was wrong. Well, you were at Chincatera, right? No, we were in Amalfi. Oh.

In a mall? There's some very terrifying hikes on the Alphi coast. Yes. So I can imagine. There's a pathway called the pathway of the gods. And in order to get to the very top, to get to the pathway of the gods, you have to literally scale rocks in a mountain with the sea hundreds of feet below you, straight down. Yeah.

It's terrifying. And this was terrifying for Amanda, and she made it, God bless her. She was very heroic, and she did it. And I have great respect for her for having done it, not giving up. But Steve was trying to be helpful, and he was not getting anywhere with that. Oh, boy. But they had a beautiful, wonderful, loving wedding, and I had a great time there. Oh, that's awesome.

Yay. It all ended up. Yeah, it all ended up a happy story. Yeah. I love it. Well, we've got some birthdays to talk about. A couple birthday shoutouts. First of all, Paul Johnston, February 13th, happy birthday, Paul.

Happy birthday, Paul. Happy birthday, Paul. Oh, also, boy, this is a popular day, everybody. We also have Lee Lyle on February 13th. Happy birthday, Lee. Happy birthday, Lee. We also have Rich Gross on February 13th, this popular day. Happy birthday, Rich.

Happy birthday, Rich. What happened nine months before the 13th? Busy, busy times. Happy birthday, Rich. Happy birthday. And finally, we have on February 16th, our good friend, Holly Smith. Happy birthday, Holly.

Holly, happy birthday. Happy birthday, Holly. All right, let's jump right into our poetry synopsis with Robbie, doing his limerick of life support. Here we go. Burial shows up in a bit of a mess. Kai Wynne wants diplomacy to progress. Jake and Nog have a fight. Burial won't be all right.

Kira is going to have to deal with a grieving process. There you go. You rhyme process with mess and progress, I got it. Very Shakespearean of you. Thank you. The iambic pentameter of this poetic musing. Yes, Enterprise. Yes, sir.

Oh, my gosh. How's your haiku? Yeah, let's go. Let's do it. Here we go. Here we go. Barial injured Bashir, Dr. Frankenstein.

Kira says goodbye. It is Dr. Frankenstein. Yes, I thought that too. I never thought about that. No, I did, I did. Yeah, and it's funny because when I read, you know, I did my haiku and then I read the old memory alpha, you know, entries. And sure enough, right on the beginning, story and script,

the original pitch for this episode, episode by Christian Ford and Roger Sofer was, or Sofer, was based on the 1818 Mary Shelley novel, Frankenstein with Bashir in the role of Dr. Victor Frankenstein. The story, though, it concerned a federation ambassador involved in peace negotiations with the Romulans to disestablish the neutral zone, whose shuttle is damaged and who dies in the sick bay on D-Space 9. However, the treaty negotiations are at a pivotal moment, so Bashir is able to figure out a way to reanimate the ambassador. his brain, essentially bringing him back to life. However, over the course of the episode, he begins to go mad. And in the last scene, Bashir is forced to allow him to die once again. The reason this idea was scrapped was that the producers felt that the audience wouldn't have much sympathy for a character whom they'd only just been introduced to. According to Ron Moore, we were trying to make it a Bashir show, but in reality, everything focused on the ambassador. Nobody cared about him. Now, this is very very...

very interesting. The solution to the problem of the audience apathy was to make the ambassador a character whom the audience knew and cared about. The producers considered changing the role to O'Brien. Column Meaney was rumored to want to leave the show to concentrate on film work, but he assured the staff. He had no intentions of leaving. As such, the producers gave the story to Vedic Burial, mainly because they weren't happy with how the Burial career, Kira relationship was going and because they weren't sure where the barial character was heading. Can you imagine if they killed O'Brien in season three? Wow. Wow. No. And that's interesting. I didn't know any of that. That's fascinating. And it might explain Cullum's ability to go off and do films whenever he wanted

to. I went off to do TV whenever I wanted to. But that might explain what they must have negotiated something where, okay, you stay, but we'll give you the leeway to leave. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That is fascinating that, yeah, that they were close, like considering a storyline that would kill them off. That's crazy. I'm always impressed with a show that kills off one of its series regulars and it has, you know, and it doesn't have anything to do with negotiations. But that's very brave and very bold. And what happens in this episode is, is in that vein, not Quite in that vein, but in that vein, because beryl is an important. Yeah, at this point, he's been deeply established, and that relationship's a big deal, so, yeah. Yeah, and I feel bad.

I didn't know he was going to die, so I feel bad that we've been poo-pooing on their chemistry this entire time. Don't feel bad. We're not the only ones. Okay, good. All right. How's our etymology? Oh, did you want to go through? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Let's do that, please. Well, you know, Life Support is the name of the episode, and unfortunately, there isn't a lot of drama or theater to either of those words, but I did look them up in the Oxford English Dictionary. So, life is from the old English, Lyft, L-I-F, and it means continuance or prolongation of animate existence. Not very exciting. Support is from the old French, from Seporte, to... to endure without opposition or resistance, to bear with, put up with, tolerate. That's one definition. Two, to endure, undergo with fortitude or giving away, or giving way.

There are 12 different definitions of support in the OED, and I decided not to give you any more of them. Okay. That's interesting, though, that supports, you said something about assist without resistance or something. That's right. Did it say that? Yeah. Yeah. But there is resistance in this.

Like there's conflict in how to support barrya, which is interesting. Life support. Yeah. Support is one of those words that has subtle different meanings. I believe, I can't remember. I remember reading an article about one word in the English language that has more different definitions than any other. But I think support is getting up there. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. Story by Christian Ford. And Roger Sofer, teleplay by Ronald D. Moore, directed by Reza Badee. So we have Reza coming back to direct another episode. Now we have guest stars, Philip Anglom again, Azavetic Barrio, Aaron Eisenberg is Nog, Louise Fletcher as Kai Wyn, Larkforhees, as Leanne, and Gillespie as Jabberra, Andrew Pryne as Terrell, Eva, or Eva, Loseith as Risca, and Kevin Carr as Bajoran. I got to be honest, it's funny because when I saw Lark Forges, all I thought was, oh, my God, it's Lark Forhees.

And I thought, Saved by the Bell. Who is Lark Forhees? Lark Forhees was a series where about Saved by the Bell. Oh, how funny. Yes. And then, and so all these actors are my contemporaries, right? So, and then I saw, you know, I looked up Eva or Eva Loseith. She only acted for four years.

She's from Chicago. And in that four year time, she was a guest star in nine different TV shows. And then she left Hollywood. and she went back to Chicago and she's a realtor there but one of the shows she guest starred on was saved by the bell

so I thought that's pretty cool and then I wanted to share this very bizarre story with both of you which I think probably may never have happened in your acting

auditioning lives but maybe it did but I do recall my agent calling me in 1993 before I booked Voyager and he said here's the deal

whichever actor makes it to the same Saved by the Bell casting office first gets the role. I said, what? And so all these actors just rushing through L.A. to get there. And, of course, I didn't make it there. And someone got there way before I did.

But has that ever happened to either of you where they said something as arbitrary as that? No. No. No. No. It was an under five, right? So the casting director saw photos of, I don't know, five people and called their agents.

Yeah, you tell your clients, one of you five is going to get it. We don't care who. Just get there. It doesn't say much for the casting the department of that show. No. Or the producers, for that matter. No. Lark Vorhees, I just did a little Google search.

She was left out of the 35-year reunion of Saved by the Bell. and she yeah she uh she was excluded from that that's very oh that's sad it is sad is she still acting according to what you're looking at or no um i don't think so yeah i don't think so let this be a lesson to people that are listening um oftentimes when work isn't available or something happens or you move away or you get married or something like that your your career just stops and um yeah there's nothing wrong with that at all and uh you you just decide i don't want to go through forgive me for using this latin word the michigas of um of having to audition worrying about whether i got the part of only getting work once twice three times a year um that that's off-putting

and eventually you come to your senses and you say i don't want to do this anymore yes yes i can relate to that feeling today Armant. Well, well said. All right, on that note, I'm going to jump into the first scene and let Rob take a little bit of a break. Yes. All right. So we're in the promenade and we catch up with Jake who runs into an old acquaintance we've never met before. That's Leanne, played by Lark Vorhees. And, you know, immediately I was like, what? Mark Voorhees was on this show. And this adds to another. I really watched, did you watch Saved by the Bell? Did I? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I did not religiously, but I saw episodes of it just to keep up with whatever shows were being cast at the time.

Oh, I see. Yeah. It was well after my watching shows like that. Yeah. I mean, I know of the show, but. Yes. But yeah, but she was, you know, one of the regulars on there. And immediately I recognized her because she is one of my contemporaries.

And I was so excited to see her. And I kept thinking, I'm so jealous of the essence. nine, they got all the good guests, guest stars. You did get really good guest stars. We did. Yeah, you did. You did. Okay.

So, he bumps into Leanne, and Leanne and Jake have a bit of a conversation. They talk about some, a past dinner they had over at the Klingon restaurant. And this information leaks out that Leanne is no longer dating Orak or Orak, whatever her boyfriend's name was at the time. And now she has eyes for Jake. So she asked if he has anything, any plans for tomorrow. Evidently he does, he does have some plans with Nog to go play Dom Jot. But he's very quick to say that I can cancel those immediately.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. Nog who. Nog who, exactly. And let's not forget the really beautiful tracking shot at the very top that starts at the top of the second level of the promenade, pans down to the ground then comes back up to the upper level and then pans down to the lower level

really nice camera work yeah yeah very impressive opening shot for sure I remember Jonathan Frank said to me when I was shadowing him and observing to direct Jonathan said just remember two things your opening shot

needs to be really beautiful grab the audience do something cool and he said the last shot remember the showrunners names come up right after that last shot. So you want the last shot to frame their names beautifully and they'll bring you back. Oh, my God. And I literally have thought about that. But it's kind of true.

Like, you know, if it's a pretty shot and then their names come up, they're going to be like, I like this person. Yeah. I like, yeah. Subconsciously. Subconscious. So as opposed to being the. the first one at the audition, the important thing is to be that the last shot, the last shot must be beautiful. Must be beautiful, yes. Look at those, well, the words of advice from him.

Look at this episode, sorry to spoil the ending, but the very last shot is that beautiful pullback in the infirmary. And the names, bam, right there. The creator's names, right? That's why Reza came back. You're smart man. And I must say for Reza, he loved the actors in in this episode. Oh, my God. He lit them. Not, I don't know personally. I don't remember.

But watching the show, the way he lit them, the way he framed them, he said, these actors are wonderful and I want to spotlight them. And they're just beautiful headshots of all these people. Yeah. Well, it's very well, very well shot. Agreed. What I like about this opening scene from a language perspective is that Jake totally commits in saying the Klingon word.

Gach. Yeah, he gachs. He really, he gets the going really good in there. And that's the way you have to do it. The end of this scene, we see suddenly Odo running out of security with O'Brien and some security team. And they bust past Jake and through the crowd. I love the way that that was shot and the timing and the execution of all that. It was exciting.

It was exciting. But I got a little bit confused because for a second, I thought they were running after Lark of Orhys because she went the same way. And I was like, you're sending two Bajorans and two Starfleet security personnel after a little girl. I mean, what's happening here? So it confused me. Saved by the bell. They watched Saved by the bell, too. They were excited to go get her autograph.

They wanted to get that autograph. Yes. That selfie was there. Well, they're running. Where are they running to? They're running to an airlock, basically, because there's a Bajoran transport that has had an accident. and it's very serious. And when they get there,

this is what I don't understand. Why aren't they wearing some type of respiratory devices with all that crazy toxic smoking? Yes. I was like, don't they have like something to put on? But no, they didn't have that. But when a door opens, we do see, we see not only, I don't think we see, do we see Kaiwin first?

No, it's another pejorin, right? Yeah. Another pejorin coming out. But she has a nurse arrive. If they meet, but you're in a nurse show up and meet them. Then we see a female bejoran come out first. Yeah. And then, then Kaiwin comes out.

Yeah. Who then says, help the Vedic. Yeah. Then we get to see Vedic morale with some type of chest wound. It looks like some plasma burn or something. It doesn't look good at all. He's unconscious. And they weren't able to.

They also explained why they couldn't beam them directly to the infirmary because all the radiation that's going on inside of that. shuttle. But it's, it's hardcore serious. Odo does, does reach out to Kira saying, you need to meet us in the infirmary major. Here's new haircut. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that right now. Okay. What do you think? I was like, what? I don't know. I like her older haircut. I don't like this haircut as much. It felt like she was doing the touring company of Peter Pan, the musical. Either that. It felt a little bit like either that or she was doing her impersonation of Will Wheaton because it looks a lot like, yeah, same sort of Wesley Crusher kind of combed over. I like it when it was a little spikier or whatever, a little, you know.

More volume. Yeah. This is a flatter hairstyle is what we're looking at. It's different. I don't have a problem with it, but it's just, I think we have to get used to it. Is this going to last a while, Armin? How much longer do you remember? Armand.

I apologize for not remembering what Nana's hair looked like 25 years ago. How dare you, Armin, Shimmerman? Lord Shimmerman, we asked you a question, and your answer is, Sorry. All right. That's all right. But you're not a fan. I don't feel like I've seen a lot of photos of your cast with this haircut.

So I'm guessing it's going to disappear. It did startle me when I realized, wait, what's wrong with her hair? Not wrong, but what's different with her hair? I'm wondering, it looks like it's a more no-nonsense hairdo. Would that have been a request from Nana saying, look, stop fussing over putting curlers my hair and stuff. I just want to. There are some actors on our show. show that we're very adamant about what their hair looked like.

Okay. I don't know if Nana was one of them. Got it. Well, we'll have to ask her that when we have her on next time, for sure. She'll give us an answer, I'm sure. How did you feel about your hair, Armin? My hair was terrific. It's not this episode, but it's coming close to this one.

I actually had surgery done on my nose. In real life? In real life. Towards the end of the third season. And it was all black and blue. And it was right, I had it done right the last show before Christmas. And so I had all of Christmas all the way to the first week in January to recover. But it hadn't really totally recovered.

But then they put the prosthetics on and nobody could tell the difference. Oh. Was that okay, though, with the healing? Luckily, the hard part of the healing was done during Christmas. So the pain, the discomfort, all of that was done. between the 25th and the 1st of January. So that, that, and as long as Karen was careful about putting the prosthetics on, which she always was, there was no problem.

So nobody saw the problem. Did you ever have, I'm kind of a related question, did you ever have anyone like break a leg or a foot or an arm? A nose. A nose? Yeah. Was that you? No, Marka Limo had his nose broken in the last episode by,

by Cisco by Avery Brooks Oh wow So it happened on the show Yeah and then there was a time that If I've told the story before people Forgive me It's one of my favorite stories It was winter

It had just rained Then I was coming out of the makeup trailer She slipped on the steps And palette Or the steps On the steps You know the metal little tiny metal steps Yeah

And she slipped And she hurt herself, and they took her to emergency, and she was still wearing the prosthetic of the jaw and nose. And the doctor said, oh, my God, we have to fix that immediately. And then Nas said, it was obvious. He was thinking he had this new complication that we put him in the medical books because of the nose. And she said, oh, my side hurts or wherever the pain was.

And he said, no, forget about the side. look what happened to your nose she said doctor that's a piece of rubber that's funny that's very funny goodness oh it is very funny i was just thinking back when i was working with steve kaffrey on a on a soap opera i broke my foot uh on a on a holiday trip and so i had a cast and so the way they dealt with that was that i would be standing behind the couch for a scene not really moving or, you know, I'd be sitting with my foot under the coffee table and it wouldn't really move. So I don't think anybody in our cast ever had a broken bone or cast, you know. Tim Russ was, Tim Russ injured himself. He did? Yeah. He had a horrible sprain from playing pickup

basketball at the Y. And so he was relegated to staying behind his counter, his station the entire time. They never brought him out. Oh, yes, I remember that. Yeah. He messed himself up. Pretty bad. Did anything like that happen on your show that someone got... NNA got pregnant, and so they had to hire her pregnancy for a little bit. But, no, I don't remember. And again, remember, we were separate stories after a while. It was just separate stories.

So it might have happened, and I wasn't aware of it. I don't think anyone really got hurt. Did I remember? I didn't hear any stories about that. All right. Okay. We are back in the infirmary. Yes, we are.

We are now with O'Brien, Cisco, and Kai Wynne. So O'Brien's giving a portem what happened. There's a molecular fracture in one of the warped plasma conduits. It gave way. The whole relay system exploded. That's why Beryl was injured. Wynne immediately thinks it's sabotage. O'Brien doesn't believe so.

And then, Kira asks, why would you suspect? Why would you suspect sabotage? And Wynne says, well, I would prefer to discuss this with emissary in private. So she only wants to speak to Cisco. And Cisco's like, okay, let's do that. When she said emissary, I forgot that that he was the emissary. Yeah. So I was like, who's the emissary?

She's going to call the emissary? Who's that again? And I realize, oh, it's. Please don't forget. Yeah. Okay. Just don't forget. No.

Okay. I'm sure it's going to be, we're going to come back. Because that was in the pilot, right? ask me no questions I'll tell you no lie okay okay all right we're in the operation

or I guess this is the OR right this is their little operations yeah yeah the OAR the outfit can we talk about the outfit

yeah let's let's what the hell okay do you remember there was a David Kronenberg film where everyone wore red scrubs like that too I don't know

to the name of it but that's what it reminded me I'm like dead ringer wasn't it dead ringer yeah I think that's what it was yeah yeah what did you think

I thought they were pretty silly, actually. They seem silly, and they have red gloves on. Why would you do an operation when you can't see, like, whatever liquid, blood, whatever, like, you would want a clean, neutral palette on your hands to make sure you're not contaminating one thing to another? You would have a mask on your face for germs. I was thinking the flip side. I thought, wow, how ingenious. in the future, they don't make scrubs the color that we're used to.

They make it the color of blood, so no one gets worried. It's always going to be like. Is Bajoran blood red? I don't know. Like Vulcan blood is green, right? So, and Bollian blood is blue. I think we may have seen. Okay, Kira's been punched around and beaten.

When Burial came out being carried, it looked like it was red. There was red there. Okay, so red. So I'm going to say red. okay yeah yeah okay so you don't like their outfits i don't like their outfits beryl's dying in this scene though he is here tries really hard the nurse says cardiac arrest they try compression you know uh whatever those things are called electro electrical yeah shocks

shocks yes that's what i'm thinking of um a friend of mine just had that done to him and and he said uh it's it's not a horrible experience because it only lasts for a nanosecond but it's a shock to the system and he said when it happened all he saw was blue light and he asked the people around him the doctors and the nurses did you see that blue light and they said no no we didn't see anything but he saw a blue light and they shock they shock barile twice so that when he says we can't do this i think uh bashear says we can't do much more of this to him and i said yeah after listening to what john had to say about it yeah you can't do that too well you can't no it's very serious when you pull out the paddles yeah wow yeah well his

They try that. It doesn't work because arterial pressure starts. But I noticed, excuse me, I noticed he still yelled clear. I thought, oh, they're still doing that. Clear. Yes. Hundreds of years of the future. Clear.

Yeah. Synaptic failure happens. They apply direct neurostimulation to the brain. I thought we went straight to the Kira scene, but no, we go to the commander's office at this point? We go to the commander's office. Yeah. Okay.

This is an interesting scene because this is really, we're in the commander's office and it's just the emissary and win. But did you notice something was off a little bit with Louise in this scene? Because I just, when I was looking at her close up, makeup, you mean? It just seemed like, you know,

it seemed like her face seemed a little fuller. Fuller in terms of retention of water. Like that, it just seemed like a little bloated. That's what I was going to say. A little bloated. And there something was going on. It almost felt like she was phoning it in a little bit compared to what I'm used to seeing. Then I was reading

in these notes and I found out that she was extremely ill during this episode. Oh, wow. Yes. And so let me just maybe you picked up on that. Yeah, I picked up on that entirely. But the note was very surprising because it says, oh, I'm so sorry, I had this one second. Yes. While shooting her scenes, Louise Fletcher was extremely ill with the flu and had to lie down between takes.

Between takes, Robbie. in the same setup. So not between setups or sequences, but in the actual take of one scene, she had to lie down. So she was that ill. And the entire monologue, and she has like a monologue basically in here.

It's a lot of her dialogue, a lot of exposition. And every time I watched her talk, I thought, oh, something's going on. And then I read this. And I said,

oh, I see. I don't know why, you know, Star Trek was never very sensitive to, in my experience, very sensitive to people. people's illnesses as a company.

They were like, you know, suck it up. The show must go on. We've got a tight schedule. Yeah. Whereas I feel like if she was that sick, just take that whole day, put it down a week later, move it, and pull something else up. Thank you. I do this all the time on my shows with people get sick or something happens.

I don't know why. Now, I know Louise. I knew Louise before she was on Deep Space Nine. In fact, I'm slightly responsible for her. being on the show. Oh, wow. More on that later. But knowing Louise, who was a very quiet and private person, she may not have told

anybody before she got there that day. Oh, I said. That she was ill. Yeah, that makes sense. She was a very strong-willed woman and a good friend, a very good friend. Yeah. I've got artwork in my house that Louise sold me. So it may be that she just didn't tell him.

So when she got there, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, the whole conversation here is basically exposition about how her and Bariol, and it was really Boreal's idea to reach out to a member of this Cardassian Central Command so that they can talk about final peace talks. Yeah. And this has been going on for months. Bariol has been spearheading this movement or this idea to have this peace treaty signed. And he's integral to it.

So his being injured is a huge, huge issue. You, Cisco basically is surprised. He's like, wow, I'm surprised you would even consider such a bold vision of peace to Bejor. But that's when Wynne says that, well, Braille's a huge reason why this is even happening. And without him, these talks may never resume. So this is the scene to establish the fact that without Burial, these peace talks are going to get down the toilet. Yeah, Cisco even comments on, you've grown fond of him. You know, I'm surprised.

And she says, well, I'm not sure if I would have done the same. thing if the shoes were reversed. Which is a very nice thing for him, for her to say, as when. Yes, a very nice thing for win to see. She realizes she can be, you know, hard to handle. And she admits to that, yeah. Yeah. We, I think, go back to the infirmary now.

Yes, we're back to the infirmary. Bashir is giving Kira the bad news. Yeah, so Bashir gives the bad news to Kira, who, how do you two think she took it in that She was in shock, I think. You're going to say shock? I think she was shock. She wants to go back to work. She's like, well, I've got to go.

Yeah. Go back to ops and she was like, I don't know if you should do that. And she says, I'm going to grieve in my own time and my own way. So I think she was a bit in shock. Right. Right. Okay. Because clearly later on, spoiler alert, later on, she's got a lot of emotions about it.

Right. But in this moment, it just took her by surprise. I guess I'm influenced by the. the fact that we watched that prior episode and where everybody was kissing on everybody. So I almost felt like it was not... Oh, really? Yeah, I thought

it was non-fluous. She can move on? In a kind of like, well, you know, things happen. It didn't seem like she had that much care, but I maybe read that wrong. So... I think it was shocked to me. I think you did. I think you did. I think it was shock. And Nanah's too good of an actress

to have not realized this is what she has to play. And that the lines were such that I'm going back to work. So that's the way I play this. I'm going back to work. Yeah. I agree. I have a question. Did they have the red stuff on in both scenes, in the scene where he dies and the scene afterward? The autopsy? Yeah. The autopsy they were in the red as well. Yeah. I think so. I don't remember. I think he had the red on for a lot of it. I liked when he took the red cap off at one point. He pulled something out of his. Yeah, pulled it Now, yeah, that made it feel less costumy to me. Less Halloween.

Functional, I see it. Okay. Tucks in. Okay. Well, yeah, he's back in this operating theater preparing for the autopsy. Bashir then sees a neuron fire on the scans. A brain, there's brain activity. Yeah.

Ryle says he's been in stasis, so maybe they can reactivate his brain. If they can do that, they might revive him. And then there's sort of this time lapse of trying all these electrical stimulation, techniques. Finally, it seems to work. Emperor Ryle's eyes open. And, yeah. Yeah. And I've seen.

Well, what do you think of that right at the beginning of the autopsy? They put that what looks like what the NFL would use to protect their quarterback's noggin. But whatever that thing was, that halo was so bizarre looking. There's a little small note about that. Jim Martin designed two major props for this episode, a brain scanner and a brain operator. The scanner was a small, lightweight device, which would be placed over the head.

The operator was a large device, which enclosed the head apart from a small opening at the back. However, when Martin saw some of the dales for the episode, he was amazed to see that the scanner was being used as the operator and vice versa. Yes. Director Reza-Badee could not figure out which was which. So he took a guess, and Martin thought this mix-up was hilarious.

That's funny. That is funny. That is funny. I think Reza made the right choice. Like, to me, the clear thing seemed like a scanner, that that's how he got the information. Right. And then later on, the smaller thing seemed. Yeah, that made sense.

I like for you? So it didn't bother you that. No, no, no. All right, good. But before we go on, again, another nice shot. There was an extreme close-up of Barile's hair. and then as we're just grat, then we just pan slowly over his face

and then we see the slightest of tremors in Burriles' eyes that indicated there's a life there. I really like that kind of shot a great deal. Yeah, much tighter shots than normal on Star Trek, on your Star Trek or our Star Trek. We typically didn't go super tight. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember when I finished our series, Voyager, and I went on to direct Dawson's Creek for the first time. I was really surprised. It was very unusual to start doing these tight Dawson's Creek close-ups because we never did them on Star Trek. A close-up in Star Trek is like this. But on Dawson's Creek, it was like this, you know? Is it because the actors, forgive me, I don't mean to be a mean in any way,

but is it because the actors are prettier on Dawson's Creek than they were on Star Trek? I think it was a bit more kind of melodramatic. It was all about feelings that show. So much of that, you know, those soapy shows are about feelings. Whereas in Star Trek, there's great prosthetics. You don't want to go in on an actor, on a character, an alien like this. Don't hide it. The whole thing.

But Peresa did in this episode. Yeah, he didn't. It was almost always like that. Tighter than normal, for sure. Tighter than normal. Yeah. Yeah. I wish we had had him on our show. Yeah. I really do. After seeing a few of his episodes here, he's really good. Later on in the infirmary, Bashir has accomplished this miracle. Wynne seems very grateful. Burial's very weak, but he's also grateful. He's been brought back to life. Win wants to continue these talks. She doesn't want to lose the momentum, but Bashir says, nope, too much. And she says, no, Burial doesn't have to go do the negotiations. She'll just be advising me. I'll do all the negotiating. And then she wants to send this coded message to Legate Terrell, invite him to come and continue the talks.

And then when they leave Kieran Burial, have a moment, a private moment where they talk about Springball, which I thought was very sweet. And doesn't he say something like, oh, you're going to have a... You'll be playing with a dead man. Yeah. You'll be playing with a dead man. And she, yeah, the advance, she says, I'll have an advantage. That's what it was. Right.

And he says, because you'll be playing with a dead man. dead man. She says, no, no, no, I've been in practice. I've been practicing. It's very sweet. It is very sweet. I feel like there's more chemistry in this relationship when he's dying than when he was alive. You just spoke to be obvious, Robbins. I mean, sorry. No one is arguing with you. No one is arguing with you. I want to bring up something that from the last episode, though, Robbie. The last episode, and this refers to when they first get to that airlock,

and they're coming out of the Bajoran transport. You said every time a character coughs, they die. It's what you said. Oh, I did say that. Yeah. And he coughed, right? Oh, they're all coughing when they come out. I said, oh, my gosh, according to Robbie's rules,

Kai wins dead too. Then they're all going to be dead. They're all going to die. Well, somebody dies. When they're coughing, somebody's got to die. Someone dies. That's what it means. Yeah.

Okay. I like this next scene when in Cisco's quarters, Nog comes to see Jake. He's excited because of this Domjok game with these Terrellians who brag about how good they are. But Nog's super excited. But Jake says, you know, there's been a change of plans. I've got a date. Love Aaron's performance here.

He's like, oh, this is great. Talks about some rule that women are better than money. Yeah, it's his own personal rule. It's his own personal rule. Money is money, but women are better. Yeah, and Jake's like, is that a rule of acquisition? No, I'm just my personal role. I like, this whole story was fun to me.

I like this one. Yes. Nog wants to know who his date is. No, Gnog just assumes, oh, you've made a date, so. One of the things, while watching that scene, I was slightly reminded, just for a moment, that's a scene between a 16-year-old boy and a 32-year-old man. Yeah, was Aaron, how old was he? No, he wasn't third.

Not then, though. Yes, yes. Are you sure? I bet he was... What year is this now? What year is this episode, guys? This is, I don't know, 94. 95.

Okay, so... He was older for sure. I mean, we can parse the math, but he was significantly older. It was a 16-year-old and a 27-year-old. And a 30-year-old. An adult, 27-year-old. A real adult. But yet, Surac is so tall.

Sorok is like two feet taller, you know, so it doesn't, even though Aaron's 10 years older or whatever, it looks like Aaron's the younger kid. It looks like, yes, Nag is the younger kid. There's a shot later on where Jake is talking to Odo. Now, Renee probably, if I remember correctly, it's either he or Avery, was the tallest person on the show of the series regulars. And yet there's a shot where it looks like Jake is taller than Renee. And I don't know whether that's just the way the camera set it up or whether actually at that moment he was taller than Odo. I don't know. It could have been, yeah, if you drop the camera down below eye level suddenly, whatever's in the foreground is going to appear taller than the distant person.

So, yeah, it could have been that. But I notice how much Sirrock has grown in the last season. Yeah, it's shocking. Well, even that very first shot in the promenade, you see how lanky is when he's walking before he bumps into Leanne. We're like, who's that basketball player? Oh, my goodness. That's exactly what he was, a basketball player.

Yeah. Well, Nog wants to go on the date with him, wants to know who his date is. Jake tries to explain that it's a private date, but Nog just is not listening, doesn't get it. But Nog invites himself along. Uh-oh. The best part is at the end when Nog says, just promise me you won't do anything to embarrass me, which is we're shadowing for the next scene for the dates.

It's like coughing. It's like coughing. Exactly. Whenever you say, don't embarrass me. Something's going to happen, yes. It's very clear. And Nog ends a scene by saying, this will be great.

Maybe I'll even wash my lobes. And so that's the end of that scene. It's so funny. I hope he washes his lobes on a regular basis. That takes time to wash those lobes. I'm sure there are special gadgets, gadgets for doing that. Lobe washing gadgets? I love it.

I'm sure there are. I'm just imagining a Ferengi beauty salon with all these like lobe sort of, you know, devices coming across your head. In the course of time, we encounter many Ferengi gadgets. Do we? I love it. I would imagine that the pharynge lobe washing is a lot like a, like a water pick, you know? Oh, yeah.

Like the thing that used a floss, it would be like a water pick for the ears. A lobe pick. For the ears. Right. Okay. Okay. Back to the operating theater. Bryle is giving when the advice just to slow down, you know, let the piece process grow a little before asking for the orbs back.

So they're kind of, he's giving her advice. she reluctantly agrees she leaves and Bashir arrives and Burial's not in good shape you know this is taking a lot out of him Bariles Bashir says the treatment that brought him back to life has also damaged the blood flow in his body

and Bashir says I want to put you back in stasis for days, weeks, maybe even years Burial says no absolutely not he wants to help his people and Bashir says well there's this new drug called Vasican that might help but it's very dangerous could kill

you and Boreil says, do it. I want that. Bashir says, okay, but he hopes that they won't regret it. Whenever you say, I hope I won't regret this, you're going to regret it. See all these. Murphy's Law. Exactly. Now, before we go any further, I want to start complimenting my friend Sadiq al-Fadil.

I agree. Alexander Sadegh. In that scene, I thought he was wonderfully, wonderfully sympathetic. This is not the Bashir we started the show with. Not the young. Yeah. Yeah. This is a compassionate, seasoned professional who knows his job, knows what he can, cannot do,

and is enormously sympathetic to the characters, to every character, not just to Baria, but also to Kira, to, even at times, he's very, he restrains himself with Wynne until he can't restrain himself. myself anymore. It's actually very wonderful, excellent work by Sadiq or Sid, depending on what you want to call him. I noticed in this episode his performance really impressed me. Oh, it's very good. Yeah, very, very grounded, very honest. And I'm going to get to this later on, but and very hard, if you listen to the techno babble, yes, that he has to spout continually throughout this episode, plus giving an incredible performance, you know, it's a double whammy.

He is doing an exceptional job. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Okay, I have the exact age for you right now. When he filmed this episode, he was 25. Who? Nogg, no, when he filmed it. When it aired, January 31st, his birthday is in the beginning of January.

He was 26 when they aired this episode. Okay, so 31 is off. But thank you for that. But still, it's a 25-year-old actor. And a 16-year-old, yeah, 8 or 9 years older, for sure. And the attitudes they're playing are that Jake is more emotionally mature and nog. So they're, you know, Sarac is playing up in terms of his maturity in real life. And Aaron is playing down there.

But it's a good job for both of them. it's not easy to play up and it's not easy to play down either. So good job to both of those actors. Totally. A little captain's log here? Yeah, we have a station log. Yeah, commander's law. Station log, Leggett Terrell has arrived aboard the station to resume negotiations.

Vedic Barile suggested that I sit in on the talks as an impartial observer and Kaiwin has agreed. Great. Now, I want you to think about that. That's the station log. Yeah. And what is the very first thing we see next? do you remember they're in the conference room yeah yeah and it is it is cisco lecturing uh the legate about something i don't remember exactly and i thought maybe we should redefine your terms he says

perhaps there's no yeah he's he's negotiating yeah he's not the impartial negotiate he's not impartial observer that's true uh and and uh i have seen impartial observers it is de rigour that they keep their mouth shut during negotiation yeah you're right you're right but to me the dichotomy is is he's just said that I'm an impartial observer. And the very next second, he's in there. He's partial. Wynne should have had that line. Yes, Wynne should have had that line.

She's the one that's getting advice from Bariol. She's the one that's invested in this. Yeah, right. Good point. Yeah, they're negotiating. Terrell says that he'll agree in principle to paying for all the Cardassian destruction if the Bajorans agree to return any property of Cardassian origin, which my mind kept going to

this station. You're sitting on a station that's great. Oh, well that's a big case. Oh, that's good. That's very good. Robby McNeil. I'm like, guys, what do you think? He's telling you what he wants. He wants this station back. No. Armin, I was not thinking that at all.

No, me either. I was thinking about Cardassian military vehicles, Cardassian like artillery that's still living ground. Well, that's what he talked about. But he said. anything of Cardassian origin. Oh, my God, yeah, that would be the station. My God, I could have been out of work and then two weeks.

Exactly. Good job. Excellent job. I wonder if they knew that. I wonder if that was intentional. Yeah. I don't know. To me, I was just like, oh, my God.

You know, win, Cisco, come on. That is the biggest piece of Cardassian. originated material is the damn station. You know, when we talk about missing scenes, that's the missing scene. Cisco says you're going to send this us back to Cardassia? That huge, that's huge. Yeah, it is.

It is. Good job, Robbie. Well, Terrell's trying to pull some, you know, sneaky move here. He was like a recess. When and Cisco think Terrell's up to something. Yes. And that, again, that's not an impartial observer. No.

It's not. You know what? Armand, he's a somewhat impartial observer. But that's what he should have been called. He's a partial impartial. A partial, impartial observer. Yes. Yeah.

It's all semantics at this point. Exactly. Well, Wynne says she needs Beryl's help. He's the only one that can sort all this out. Yeah. And she does say here, if Boreal dies, then peace with Cardassia dies with him. So. But they already have somewhat of a peace treaty.

It's not like they're going to go to war. it's just it won't be right yeah i am i did find wins general desperation to have beryl stay a part of this confusing until later on okay when kira kind of you know when he puts the yeah she puts it she frames it in a way that i'm like oh yeah of course that's what's going yeah but anyway yeah at this point we feel like when really deeply has affection for beryl and values values him and respects him and all that. Not so simple later on. No, she always has an agenda.

That's right. It is a very complex character. Most definitely. Hey, we're in Corks. We're in Cefi. We're in Corks. We're supposed to meet at the Klingon restaurant originally, but okay. Well, now they're in Corks Cafe.

Nice dinner. And Nog has no, no understanding of how to deal with women that are not Ferengue women. Let's just put it that way. Oh, my God. This is an amazing scene. It was painful. It was like, oh, my God. I love this scene.

So funny. Yeah. Aaron just makes a mess of it all. Oh, my goodness. He says the females are talking too much. Yeah. They should cut up his food for him. And Riska says, you must be joking.

And then Aaron has this laugh. There's this awkward pause. And then he has this crazy laugh. Laps like a crazy person. They all start laughing thinking, Oh, he must have been joking. And then Aaron goes, she's so dumb. The girls, the girls both storm out.

Robbie, add the end to it. He goes, she's so dumb. She's perfect. That's what he likes the dumbness of it. Yeah, the girls do not like this. They don't think it's funny. They storm out. Jake is really furious.

And then Nog is furious back at him. You're like, wait a minute. Yes. How can you be mad? But he's mad. Yeah. The end of this scene is basically who can throw the napkin down harder is what it is. There's the napkin on the table, the other napkin on the table, the napkin from Jake onto Nog's body as well, and then Nog back onto the table.

So that napkin has more frequent flyer miles than a lot of people in America, is what I'm going to say. I wonder whose bits that was. Somebody must have come up with that bit, the napkin. It was comical. Farcical. I loved it, though. It was great. It was a nice little tag to show that teenage friendships are always fraught with, you know, drama.

There's always something to happen and always, yeah. This was the Dawson's Creek storyline of this episode. It was. It was. Exactly. Oh, my God. Before you go on, though, Robbie, I just want to make a note of what people thought about, you know, the inclusion of this B storyline. Sure.

And it's very interesting. Okay. Although the producers were happy with both the A story and the B story as individual stories, they were not happy with their combination in this episode. So according to Iris Stephen Bear, after viewing the first set of dailies, which included scenes from both stories, the producers were beyond shocked and a feeling swept through the room like, what the hell have we done? The decision to have a grim A story and a humorous B story was Ronald D. Moore's,

who explains, I said to everyone, this is such a grim episode, we should have a light be story. Maybe let Jake and Nog do some fun stuff. It sounded great in concept, and I enjoyed writing the scenes. But man, such a mistake. That is their opinion. I would disagree with that. That's what I'm going to ask you to.

You disagree. You like it. I love it. Okay. It's almost to the point where you both feel it was needed to have this lightness. That's right. Absolutely. Okay.

Yes. Absolutely. got it absolutely i mean as going back to my shakespearean roots uh shakespeare always wrote comic scenes in order to dissipate some of the seriousness of his other scenes it's essential that you have some comic relief yes really the the two series regulars uh two and a half that are being used here is sadig and uh nana and and avery to some extent so this gives jake something to do which he doesn't get to do and and i i do think actually the two stories are slightly interrelated um i think so too so i i i disagree with ira it's not the first time i've disagreed with ire

but um but uh and i adore ire um but i think he's wrong in this in this instance i i'm with you i'm with you all right back in the infirmary again uh back to our a story beryl's getting worse. He's very weak. He does tell Wynne that this whole issue about Cardassian property was dealt with four years ago. And don't worry, he'll still pay the reparations. Don't give in to that. That's already been dealt with. So he clearly is deeply entrenched in these negotiations. He knows a lot about it. You know, Wyn's very grateful for the advice. She leaves. And then Bashir comes to tell Barile, the bad news that his organs are failing. Very sad because of this treatment and wants to get him back into stasis. And Barial says, just get me through the negotiations, whatever it

takes. So, yeah, Barial is committed to whatever it means for his life. He wants to stay a part of these negotiations. Well, that's a huge commitment because Barial is basically asking Bashir to replace his damaged organs with artificial implants at this point. And that's what ends up happening after this dialogue back and forth between these two. That's huge. I did like when Barile keeps saying, he says, I'm beginning to dislike seeing that look on your face, doctor. Because every time Bashir comes in, he comments on, oh, got some bad news. The look on your face looks like bad news yeah and and again kudos to sid um he he doesn't come in with a long face comes in with the sort of the professional face yeah and and you know good for him for not going to the obvious

and playing something that is a lot more subtle yes um again a very good choice on sid's part yeah agreed and before we move on just please one of the things that that uh i went okay He can be forgiven. The writers can be forgiven. He says, just keep me. And we get the impression that this negotiation is going to be over

in a couple of days, a week, maybe. I don't know about you guys. Perhaps Robbie has been through negotiations. Maybe you have two, Garrett. But when I've sat in on contract negotiations between the unions and the producers, they go on for months.

Oh, yeah. So this is a peace treaty, a peace treaty and as we know Central Command over at Cardassia you have to talk to them as well we saw that in a previous episode what about the Obsidian Order are they a part of this too? I'm sure they are

so this is not something that you wrap up in 45 minutes right yes that's true that's why I don't know that bariles this urgency of you know yeah I'm willing to

you know spend my last two days is in pain and you know probably dying to help when this you're right it's not going to be done in a day or two right now on the other on the other hand i have known people who forced themselves to live maybe not with the medical help but force themselves to live in order to get through an event that they wanted they wanted to get through their daughter's wedding that they wanted to get through seeing somebody complete a course somewhere yeah uh so people can force themselves to live a little bit longer in order to to see something that they have great expectations for i was once at a deathbed and um the doctor leaned over to the surviving

spouse and said tell him it's okay for him to die because he's only sticky around for you for you yeah wow yeah yeah yeah that sort of yes that that that permission um you know it would have been such a gift for when to give beryl the permission to to let go that's right yeah he was hanging on hard yeah i think in a perfect world beryl could have had that Bashir, give him that vassican in the very beginning. And at that point, Beryl should have been recording everything he knows about the negotiations so that Wyn can just review it at her leisure later.

And then he can go into stasis. You see what I'm saying? It's sort of like, it just occurred to me. Yeah. Like, doesn't Beryl have a laptop at home or something? Of course. A pad? Couldn't he just say a pad?

Couldn't Boral to say, hey, when, here's the password for my pad. I'm going to go in stasis for a little while. Good luck. And just he's got his notes. He's got all the records. Right. Right. He doesn't physically have to be.

Yeah. Yeah. We're back in the ward room when studying these pads. Bashir comes in to ask when to do what you were talking about, Armin. Tell Barile that, you know, he can, you know, that you don't need them. He's not needed. He's not needed. Yeah.

That you can finish the negotiations without him. Yeah. And she says, well, it sounds. Sounds like you're asking me to lie. This is where Bashir says, you know, you can do it. You can get all the credit. But this is where Bashir goes, oh, wait a minute. I realize that you want a scapegoat.

If this fails, you don't want to be left holding the bag for this. So he's really, like he sees through her complicated motives here. Yeah. That it's not just the help she wants, but she also wants someone to blame it on if it fails. Right. Yeah. And this is, again, extraordinary acting. on Sidd both of them both of them yeah absolutely uh but it is again not the not the

Bashir that we had in the first two seasons absolutely no and then win has that very haunting ending line yes um i won't interfere and doctor i won't forget what you said here and it's like but he pushes back because he goes yeah yeah yeah yeah no he does he stands his own he stands yeah for sure We go to Cisco's quarters. It's dinner time. Sisko asked Jake, ask Jake why he and Nog aren't speaking. That Cork has mentioned this to him. And Jake explains that Nog was being super rude to the girls. Leanne's not speaking to him. And Riska, you know, couldn't say two words without him telling her to be quiet. Jake says, you know, dad, you were right. Humans and Ferengis are just too different to ever be friends. And Cisco says, you know what? I think I was wrong.

about that. Yeah. You and Nog proved that that I was wrong. And you should talk to him, Jake. And Jake says, well, he's not going to speak to me. And Cisco says, well, you're going to have to do something to get his attention. Which, again, in writer language, I went, oh, I can't wait to see what this is.

Yeah. But I, it's still, I love the fact that this scene tracks the fact that Cisco has changed his opinion on Ferengis from the episode where we meet the Jim Hadar for the first time. and Cork has to come along to Gamma Quadrant. So that's tracking here. He has a changed opinion on that. And he's actually telling his son, you know, that's how Frankie's act, you know, and I don't have a negative feeling about them like I did before, which is nice.

I like that. Do you think that's consistent with Cisco and Quark? Because it seems like he's got some warmth. I know. That's what I'm, I don't think so either. I think it's nice words to his son in this moment. Sure it is. But I don't know that Cisco lives that.

generally with maybe with nog because he's you know his son's friend but not with the pharynge's in general i don't think or well i don't know about the ferengi in general and there's no ass on farangy by the way um but um but certainly and and to cisco's credit cork does things that that you shouldn't be all that fond of him for you know no matter what he is whether he's a bolean or a vulcan or a verengi or a human uh you shouldn't be very much uh you shouldn't be very fond of quark at times. But he makes a delicious dessert at the end of this episode. He does.

What a stupid scene. I'm very fond of him. It looks like a bunch of munchkin. Let's talk about that. Yeah, when we get there, we were talking about that donut pile. No, don't talk. Let's go. Back in the infirmary, winds in the infirmary, beryl, this is where beryl is screaming.

Oh, it's screaming in pain. Okay. I'm not, I'm not saying that I'd. like to see Brile in pain, but for me, as an audience member, no, no, no, what I am saying is this is the first time that Briles had any real true emotion for me, because he seems he seems like a bump on a log this entire time, but the entire run of DS9 so far, there's no personality, nothing. And here, he's clearly emotive. Big emotions. I, I will say that when I saw him at this level of emotion in the scene,

and the agony and stuff, I had flashbacks to the elephant man. I remember his performance. He was big emotions. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, there you go. He's capable of it.

I think he just made a choice to be monk-like. He made a choice to be Stephen Wright. Yes, is what he did. I think when he read Monk, that's where he was his head. That's where he went. Yeah. Very pious, very reserved, and very low-key, and not elephant-man-like at all. so um yeah uh beryl screaming in pain uh win is there and uh bashir rushes in he's mad about all

this uh that she's there at all and win says well bariah called for me he had some ideas that he wanted to tell me and bachir says the vassican has permanently this vasican treatment has permanently damaged his brain uh it's irreversible yeah so dr frankenstein is it's not it's not working out great for him at this point no in the commander's office Bashir says that Braille may not ever regain consciousness and Wynne asks Bashir if he can replace the damaged part of the brain with implants like he did for his other organs which is just crazy yeah turning him into a cyborg yeah and Kira even supports this she says barryl would want this he'd want to finish what he started so she's yeah i was a little confused

about kira's yeah because now she's on board with win with win she doesn't like win so now she's agreeing with win but there's more to it i i agree with you for the confusion yes there there's confusion there but but if you're really thinking about kira's situation she wants to do what's best for her boyfriend for burial absolutely at the same time she also wants to uh respect his his desires yeah and she also as a pejoran wants peace between mardassians there are several factors and agendas yeah playing against here and and it doesn't it doesn't bother me at all that she sides with win here yes yes win is not her favorite person on bejure but um But sometimes you have to align yourself with people you don't like to do the right thing, to do the right thing.

Well, even the last couple lines, like Bashir says, Kira, if I go through this, the man who wakes up may not be the man he used to know. And she says, I know. I realize that. But I know how important this is to him. And I know that he wouldn't want to just be put into stasis. So, yeah, she's explaining why her point of view is complicated. but she does think that this is what Burial would want and she's trying to support him.

So, yeah. I love this next scene with the Odo. Odo standing there. Jake walks up and Jace. It's the shortest scene in the episode, I think, two lines. I thought there were more lines than that. It's definitely just two lines. Two lines.

Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, Odo says Mr. Cisco. Did they write it that way because you guys said that as a cast? Oh, no, no, no, no. No, no, no. From the very first episode, Odo was calling Jake, Mr. Cisco. I love it. Okay.

Yeah, it's cool. Okay. But Jake says, Odo, I'd like you to do me a favor. I want to be arrested. Very funny. It was very funny. Odo's response. René's response was great.

Yeah. We go into the holding area, the cells. Jake's already in a cell. Odo drags Nog into the brig. Blames him and, uh, blames Nog and Jake for stealing. from this Tholian ambassador. Nog says, I don't even know what a Tholian looks like. It just makes no sense.

Right. And then Nog says, I want my own cell. Do I have to be in there with him? Odo locks him in with Jake. So, yeah, that was funny. I like the storyline. Yeah, so do I. I think, I was wrong.

I think this is a very important storyline. I do too. And meaningful. Yeah, agreed. I love Odo's final line. Please feel free to submit a complaint. to management. So good.

We go to the infirmary again, Bashir's there. He says he's implanted the positronic brain implants into Burial. And this is where Kiran Wynne go inside to see Burial. He's awake. But he's not really all there at this point. Kira holds his hand.

He says, I feel the touch. But it feels more like a memory of a touch. which I thought was that's a yeah that was that captured an idea that was really

yeah it was just it landed for me this idea I agree with you yeah the way the dialogue was written it captured

a sense of life slipping away and memory slipping away and the things about being alive being in touch with your senses, the smell, the taste, the touch, the feelings, emotional feelings, life was slipping away from him. So this idea of like, it's a memory of a touch that I think I'm feeling now. Which is remember what Bashir calls it.

He says the spark of life and the brain, that the spark is now being extinguished. And they must have given him some data episodes to watch because to me, he's not to the elephant man he's doing a slight performance akin to data yeah it's a very sort of oh as though you know it's detached curious yeah but yes curious curious is a good good yeah yeah well whatever he's doing philip anglum in my estimation in this scene this is his best acting in the entire you know every appearance he's had very good ds nine until now because yeah not only did he play that sort of data-esque thing. There's something else going on there

where you could see the, he was holding back some tears as well. So it was, it was a full moment for me to watch Philip Anglum here. So I applaud him for this scene. It sort of made up for all the times that I, you know, called him the Stephen Wright

of Bajoran Vedics. I feel like this was like his crowning moment. And he did really, really good job. And very complicated, very complicated. situation. Yes, yes. Wynn does ask him about the negotiations, and he says he'll do all. He says, of course, Eminence, I'll do all I can.

And so he's there, I guess, to help whatever Wynn needs in terms of data. Speaking of data, he can deliver data and information, but he's not going to have, yeah, that spark of life that gives him that creative way of calculating. what the moves should be he's not going to have that yeah he's like AI yeah he's like a yeah um we go back to the uh the brig area the holding area nog is pacing he knows something is off about this this just doesn't make sense he knows that jake is up to something um nog did a gum shoe detective here figuring yeah actually that that's good writing they made him a gum shoe detective he's figuring it out yeah and

And it's not, usually, Nog reacts to his, with his emotions. Correct. And to see him using his mind to figure out a problem is the first step to where his character eventually ends up. Right. Interesting. Yes. Well, he's definitely figuring this out.

Jake finally admits that, yes, I set you up. Both of us, I set us up. I wanted to talk to you. And Jake says, you know, I forgot that you were a pharynx. And I love Knox's response. Well, the lobes are usually a dead giveaway. His sort of sincere delivery of that line was, it just made me laugh out loud. But they do share with each other that, you know what?

Some of your frangy habits disgust me, Jake says. And Nag says, some of your human habits discuss me too. Yeah. But they don't want to lose their friendship. And I would have loved to have heard what those human habits were. I know. We got a couple of Ferengi habits. We do, but we didn't hear any human habits.

No, no. I mean, we get a little bit more fringy. Well, he does say you treated the women like equals. That disgusts him. Right. Maybe that's, you know, maybe it's stuff like that. But when he says, I treating them with that respect, it made me sick. And Jake's like, oh, you want to talk about sick?

Sick is making risk of cut up your food for you. And now goes, at least I didn't have her chew. And I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, we did not know about that either. You didn't? No, I did not know about that. I thought there was that from the beginning. Okay, yes, yes, yeah. We know that the women are naked and that they're at home.

That's what you remember, the nakedness. But there are other things. I didn't remember about the chewing of the food as if they were a baby, a mama bird to the baby bird is what I was. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Wow.

Well, they agree that they will have no more double dates together, that that's a smart move and that they'll deal with things that annoy them as they come up. And then I love at the end, they call. for Odo to let them out. That was very funny. Very funny. They call for Odo. First Jake calls and then he says something like,

what does he say? Oh, he's just joking or something. Oh, he's just playing around. And then they both together call, Odo. Oh, do we just go back to the chewing of the food. I'm just, let's just skip, okay, I'm just imagining our respective partners.

So we're talking about Kitty, Rebecca, and Megan doing that for us. It's just like, as much as we love and care about our partners, I don't think any of us would ever, ever allow them to chew our food and then we eat it afterwards. Oh, my God. Well, I'm absolutely certain Rebecca would never do it. No, she wouldn't do it.

Yeah, she wouldn't even chew your own food. No. Kitty has never chewed my food for me, but on occasion when I'm not capable, she has cut my food for me. Oh, she has. Oh, that's nice. When I've had some sort of physical damage in a hand or something. Right.

And she'll cut the food for me. Rebecca does peel my grapes for me, but I don't think that's poop. Whoa. No, she does not. No, she does not. Oh, my goodness. Okay. Station log?

Yeah. Station log supplemental. Kai Winn has announced that Legate Terrell has signed the peace treaty. The news has sent a shot. shock wave throughout the quadrant. And although there is still some opposition from hardline elements on both Bejor and Cardassia, it looks as though they're finally willing to put their long conflict behind them. Yay! This is a momentous occasion. Yes. Let's have a party in the wardroom about it. We should have a word. Why don't we see it? Yes, we don't see it.

We don't. This is my only problem with the episode, really. Really? You wanted to see the signing of the treaty? I want to see, because, Because I've been part of negotiations, I wanted to see Kai Wynn do whatever she has to do to get this. Okay. It happened. The whole thing is about this negotiation, negotiation, it goes. And then, oh, yeah, we got it. That happened.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got it. So if you have that feeling, then I had that same feeling when they're doing surgery on Burial's head. Because in this day and age, in 2024, we would have seen the actual brain being operated on, but everything was from that one.

From an angle, yeah. He's pushing into the hair. Well, because Reza was using the wrong prop. Oh, that's right. Reza had the wrong prop. He'd use the right prop. He could have come around on the backside. I could have seen it, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so they're having a party in the ward room. Dax tries to help Bashir feel better. She does say that, you know, you kept Brile alive against all odds. I think this is Terry's only scene. This is her only scene. She had a whole week off. Oh, she was so happy this episode.

Quirk does bring in this amazing dessert, which I mentioned earlier. He brings it in to show Kai Wynn. He goes over to hers. He says, Kai Wyn, meet Kai Wyn. You've named the dessert, the Kai Wyn. But it did look like little donut balls all piled up with frosting or something, which I think you described the frosting as tongue sauce. Halligian tongue sauce.

yeah right yeah yeah when you said in a honor of on the occasion i've named my latest creation after you and before you said it's a chocolate suplei i thought you're saying a big hump of steaming poop because that's what you're full of you're full of poop it's what i thought you're gonna say but you did well i believe this is the first and maybe the only time that louise and i actually had a moment together oh and you're friends too and we're very good friends yeah And I can sort of see that in the subtle body language between the two of us. So I was very pleased to have something to do with Louise. Oh, great lady, Louise.

It's like you have your own personal Easter eggs in this scene. You see your body language, her body language, after knowing her for so many years. And she, instead of being disgusted until I leave, and then she plays it right. but right um she there is a sort of thank you armament thank you i can see it in her eyes yeah and then when when arman leaves uh then she's back to care that reminds me of we had an episode of voyager where i had a uh we had a guest our name willie garson and willie was an old friend from new york and we just had so much fun that when i when garrott and i rewatched that episode. I'm like, oh, that's just me and Willie. Like, I can see we're not really playing

the scene. We're playing other other stuff. But to make it even more relevant, it's, it's like the scene when Jonathan Frick's came on. And Terry, not Terry, and then not turns to him and sees him. And that look is like, hey, it's Franks. That's the look we saw. It was not like, hey, it's, it's, what is his damn name? I've already forgotten his character name. Riker, Riker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she's not saying like, hey, it's Riker. It's literally, hey, it's Frakes is what we saw.

Yes, exactly. I love it. Yeah, so you got the, you got the dessert. I like that you're selling a lot of them that you can't keep up with the demand on this Kai when dessert with the tongue, the tongue sauce is very popular. Well, she's a big hero now on Bay Area. Yes, exactly. We do get a call from the nurse, medical emergency.

We cut down to the... Nurse Jabara. Nurse Jabara. Nurse Jabara. Made by Ann. Gillespie. Let's give her... Yes. We're in the infirmary.

Kira is... Here's desperate. So, Nana played this scene. U-Tifoli. Desperate, broken-hearted. Yeah. She wants Bashir to replace the other part of Barile's brain, and Bashir says,

no, this has to end. This has to end now. Right. Can't do this anymore. Yeah. Well, he doesn't want to remove the very last shred of humanity that Barrault has less threat of the line. And it makes, yeah, that little spark right there.

Yeah, because he will be an android at that point. If you think about it, there's nothing that it's, that's him originally, except for the exterior, what you see, that's it. Yeah. Wyn is also in this scene. Wynn does say, it's time to listen to Dr. Bashir or child. Kira doesn't, back to not liking Wynn. She says, you know, you've got, sure, you've got your place in history now.

You're fine. You don't need beryl anymore. and when does leave and is that on uh do you have the script probably the original video i can get it i'm just curious if that was a direction in the actual script where she puts her hand on his chest uh to say goodbye or if that was louise fletcher doing talk amongst yourselves and i will go thank you just curious yeah very sweet scene though super great performance by nanar yeah well in a sense, at least this would be occurring to me, it may not have occurred to her. But this is an

actor she's worked with on several episodes. We know he's not coming back. And so you're saying in a nice way, goodbye to someone that you have worked with. How you feel about that person overall is neither here and or there. It's simply saying, thank you, goodbye. You know, it was nice working with you right yeah i remember when i did uh i did the show chuck um the spy comedy show and we uh in our last season our very last scene i intentionally scheduled the entire cast that we we always had this like conference room where everybody would gather and try to solve the spy the spy you know mystery and so i put that scene that scene where everyone was in the scene i put it at the very end of the schedule. So that would be the last scene that we would do of the series. And then I said to them as we

rehearsed the scene. I said, I'm going to do close-ups of everybody first. And I'm going to do the wide shot last. And I'm only going to do it once. And that one take will be the last take of this series. So I made it. I kind of built it up. It was a little dramatic. And I remember I set up this wide shot, which I don't think we could use because everybody was crying. They were all. was there, Robbie, with you. You were there, right? Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah, they were very emotional. very emotional and Chris Delapena or first AD when he got to call

a rap you know the AD is the one that announces rap he's like he came up to me Chris goes and he's a he's a yeah he's not an emotional guy that's for sure he's not an emotional guy he's a logical and he got really emotionally goes can I can I call rap can I call rap

and I was like yeah Chris you and he goes ladies a gentleman he's the first ad ladies that gentleman that's mine honor to call a series rap. It was very sweet. It was very sweet. So yes, back to your care, you know,

now saying goodbye to a fellow actor, whether. Yeah. Yeah, she spent a lot of time with him. I'm sure it was very emotional. Did you find it? The script? I did. It does not have a suggestion.

It says, she says, Wynn says, believe me, child, share your pain, but I think the prophets are calling to Brio. She looks at Brial. I will see to it. that Bejor never forgets him, and she leaves. And she leaves, so she didn't touch him in the script. Okay, no.

So that was Louise doing that, then. Yeah, sure one. All right. Or Reza, or Reza, one of the other. Or Reza, yeah. Yes, yes. And then the final monologue is very sweet, too, that Kira has. She speaks to the unconscious beryl, right, starting with, you got your treaty.

And then she talks about how she first met him. Mm-hmm. And she talked about how she got on, he got on her nerves, because there is such a calmness about him when she saw him and then she says well then I got to know you and I realize you're just as confused as the rest of us you just accepted your confusion better than anyone I've ever known that's when I realized I loved you she says I loved you yeah then it goes back and it's the last words of the episode yes yeah and it's that nice holdback with the executive producers titles right there and Reza gets another episode that he yeah okay there we go yeah it was it was very

nice work at the end by kira um yes but when i look back on this episode i don't see kira as one of the main focuses in this episode it's i it's strange to me it's odd the focus is beryl the focus is when the focus is jake of course um bashear bashear oh absolutely i'm sorry absolutely bashear but not so much Kira. She's there. And a lot of scenes, you see her standing behind Wynn with nothing to say. With nothing to say. Yeah. It's strange. I would have loved to have seen much more scenes with Bashir and Kira. Right. Where she's arguing the medical side of, you know, Wyn's arguing one medical side. Maybe Kira's arguing a different angle, but very emotional and very personal. I don't know. Yeah. It was odd that Kira has this last emotional moment. but she's barely, you know, contributing before that. Victim of the 42-minute format.

All right. So here is a little bit of tidbit of information for both of you. After this episode aired, the producers received an extremely angry email from a group calling themselves the friends of Vedic Bariol. The email angrily protested the death of Bariol and enclosed were pictures of a memorial service they had held for him. Oh, my gosh. Wow.

And if any of them are listening to our podcast, they probably don't like me because I've always been bagging on barrioles of day one. I think they were as emotional about barriol as Chris Delapena was about calling rap on Chuck. Clearly. They were as upset. They pulled to Chris Delapeno. They did. And yet, again, I will repeat something I said before. Yeah.

To me, some of the bravest things that writers can do is to kill off of a beloved. character. That all of a sudden makes the show much more believable and gives you the feeling that, well, if they can kill that person off, they could kill this person off. Then all of a sudden, when those characters are in jeopardy, there is jeopardy, as opposed to think, oh, well, that's number one on the call sheet. They're never, he's never going to die. She's never going to die. Game of Thrones did that beautifully. Game of Thrones, they would kill somebody every other episode. Oh, my gosh. characters well let us talk about our theme lesson moral of this episode starting

robbie then armin then myself um i wrote down uh the lesson for me is sometimes there's something that's bigger than a single person and that's the true hero's sacrifice that's what beryl did it was bigger than his own he was willing literally to to die to to be helpful to his people and the cause, you know, that was bigger than himself. Yeah. I'm of the same vein, slightly worded differently. Every person's fate is in their own hands, and each must decide what's important to them. So in this case, it's Beryl's life and the peace treaty.

And for the B story, it's for Jake saying, my friendship with Nog is possibly more important or equally as important as having a date with Leanne. Each person must decide their own fate. Yes. That's same idea even better said than I said it. Yes, absolutely. Very well said. Yes, I have two lessons.

My lesson from the B storyline is that money is money, but women are better. Then my other lesson is from the A storyline. mine. And that's from the very final speech that Kira has to at the very end of the episode. And that is that we're all confused. And it's just a matter of how well we are able to handle that confusion. How well are we able to accept that confusion is what it's all about. That's it. Yeah. That's mine. Yeah. Well said. The Patreon poll theme lesson moral of this episode is submitted by Sherry Kidner, and that is sometimes you just have to let go. Is that about the A story or the B story?

That's probably... I think that's about everything. I like that. I mean, letting go of control of outcomes is a great lesson in general. You can apply that to... I can apply that to this podcast, letting go of outcomes. Yeah. I wish I could do that when I'm on a plane.

I wish I could just let me go. It's tough for you. We forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's a lesson that you keep having to incorporate, I guess, right? Let it go when you get on that plane. Okay.

Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion of life support. And thank you again for our lovely co-host, Armin. Thanks, Armin. Thanks, Armin. Thank you. And join us next time. when we will be recapping and discussing the Deep Space Nine episode, Heart of Stone, and that will be with Armin yet again.

Yay. Looking forward to that, most definitely. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned to your bonus material. And for everyone else, we'll see you next time. Bye, bye, bye, everybody.