The Delta Flyers - Lifesigns

Episode Date: December 21, 2020

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Lifesigns. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.Lifesigns:The Doctor's adaptive programming allows him to experience romantic feelings when he treats a Viidian female in advanced stages of the phage.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca Jayne.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Ann Marie Segal, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Daniel Adam, Chris Knapp, Michelle Zamanian, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Megan Hurwitt, James Zugg, Mike Gu, Shannyn Bourke, Holly Smith, Jesse Noriega, Dominic Burgess, and Amber EasonAnd our Producers:Chris Tribuzio, Jim Guckin, Steph Dawe Holland, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Eleanor Lamb, Thomas Melfi, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Father Andrew Kinstetter, Ann Harding, Gregory Kinstetter, Laura Swanson, Luz R, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Katie Johnson, Craig Sweaton, Ryan Hammond, Nathanial Moon, Warren Stine, York Lee, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Cutler, Crystal Komenda, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Oliver Campbell, Anna Post, Robert Hess, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Nathan Butler, Terry Lee Hammons, Andrei Dunca, Daniel Owen, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Ming Xie, Mark G Hamilton, Jeff Cramer, and Heather Chappelle Thank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey y'all, welcome to the Delta Flyers of Tom and Harry as we journey through Star Trek Voyager episodes. Your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Robert Duncan McNeil here. Robert Duncan McNeil. You said y'all at the top of it. Did you catch the y'all? I said, hey, y'all. So this is Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, all these southern states, they understand y'all. Y'all. It stands for you all.

You all. You all. What are you all? Y'all. Y'all. Why apostrophe A-L is y'all, which is you all. Exactly. Yeah.

And if you're talking to somebody like in the South, a common phrase, you will recognize this, Robbie, is, what are y'all fixing to do? So that means what are you about to go to get ready to do? What are you getting ready to do? What are you doing today? So fixing is a very southern. Oh, I miss the South. I'm up here in the Great White North, Vancouver, British Columbia, you too. You're in Canada. Yes, but it is interesting that we both spent time in the South. I mean, we both played characters that were best buds on Voyager. And we've got this connection of We have this connection. We're both basically, you know, Southern boys, if you want to talk to us.

I am, I am wearing my Georgia Bulldogs jersey today, courtesy of- Who are they playing today? They played Missouri. They played Missouri. They played Missouri. Yeah, they played yesterday. They played Missouri. Sorry.

Georgia Bulldogs, yeah, Sunday is Saturday or the games. They played Missouri, their last, I think it's the last regular season game. And they beat them 49 to 14, I think. Oh, they crushed them. Yeah, it was a good crushing. What we were saying about your jersey, I think that's your, is that your Heinz Ward jersey? It's my Heinz Ward jersey that are our lovely Voyager fan, Bill U. I just want to, you know, thank him again.

I know I've talked about this a little bit, but this is Delta Flyers birthday football poem for Robert Duncan McNeil. Yes, you showed us that, but a second mention is worth it too. Bill, you spent the time to actually make a, write a poem and then say, you and make this card and send this football jersey to our Delta Flyers. It's so nice. Situation. I love it.

I wear it. It's my good luck game day jersey now. I bring the power and the force of Starfleet to help my team win the game. I'm a little jealous. Yeah, Garrett and I are both big football, American football fans. And you're more of an NFL guy. I'm a big college football guy. And we both lived in the South and spent.

in time. We have a lot of, a lot of reasons why our character's gone along well. Yeah, Robbie, and that's something that's always, you know, been at the back of my mind is, is how to spread the love of American football to the rest of the world. Because let's face it, if you go travel to another country like Europe or if you're in Asia, American football is not the big deal. It's soccer, which they call football, right? Yeah, that's the big deal. So I'm just always wondering what can be done to educate the masses. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, you know, you look at baseball or basketball, which both came from America. And baseball is now a world sport. People play it all over the world. Huge. Huge. Basketball, the same thing. Yeah.

But I think part of the problem with American football is there's so much equipment that you need. You need helmets. You need pads. You need, you know, all mostly that. But true. But I think the biggest hurdle or stumbling block for american football to become worldwide popular is the fact that it is not an Olympic sport oh interesting basketball is an Olympic sport you see what I'm saying baseball has an Olympic so if if there was an Olympic component then it would force other countries to truly learn the sport right and I felt that maybe if I was to produce and film a sort of a documentary series sort of ABCs of football where each each episode is with a different NFL either current player or retired great in a certain position. So this week, you know, we're going to cover

wide receivers and we're going to interview Heinz Ward, the great Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver and let's go through the drills that he does and let's have him explain what exactly the wide receiver, you know, position entails, the duties of a wide receiver and sort of maybe have that. And then translate that into other languages or maybe I actually speak in the other language like, you know, let's face it. The largest market would be China. It would be a fun way to pass on the sport. You know, you may know this, Garrett, but I'm a big rugby fan as well. Yes, you love rugby. Yeah. I love it. And I love watching, you know, Six Nations rugby or, you know, any of the international games are really exciting and the thing about rugby is it's very similar

it's like a cross between american football and soccer because it's a game that flows like soccer it just keeps going there's no stoppage it's got a flow like soccer but um but it's got the contact and the intensity of of american football i think so one of the reasons that other countries have trouble with american football is that it's got this start stop you know there's only 50 minutes of action in the in the whole hour there's a lot of waiting but i think what americans love about that is the theater and the drama of yeah anticipation of like what's going to happen what's going to happen right and the clash you know the clash is pretty violent and and exciting yeah one thing of note though when i was in pre-pandemic in england watching their broadcast of an american

a football game, they cut out all the breaks and all the timeouts and everything. So it's play after play after play. And then it's crazy. It's so fast. Very different. Yeah, it becomes more like a soccer free flow game because they don't stop at all. They just, they edit everything together. Watching an episode of Voyager and just like skipping to the highlight, skipping to the highlight, you watch the whole episode in six minutes. It's exactly what it is. It would kind of ruin the episode if you did that. Probably would. You need the drama. What episode are we talking about this week? This episode is called Life Signs.

Life Signs. Yes. Life signs is the name of the episode. So let us, let's go watch this episode. Let's do. And come back and let everyone know what we think about this. Patreon, patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. All right, guys.

Hey, y'all. We're back. Hey, y'all. Hey, y'all. Hey, y'all. All right, we are back. I'm very, I'm a little, I'm feeling like I just saw, like, I don't know, I'm feeling a little sensitive about this. That was very moving that episode. Yeah. It really was. Yeah. Yeah.

I was wrong about, I mean, I was right about the back of the, it being in the car. Yeah, you remember the car. I totally didn't remember that. But that was to me, the last scene of the episode in my mind. Oh, that's funny. It would like it literally, the shot was and I even had the shot in my head the shot was from behind yeah looking out at Mars looking at Mars and then it just sort of phased the black and credits that's what I remembered but but then that wasn't the case that was actually you know a little bit different there was a lot more story to go I think the really the saddest part of the story was after that you know it was yes most definitely we'll get we'll get there we'll get to that point yeah let's let's talk about it Cliff

Bull directed this episode. Cliff Bull, one of our regulars. I love Cliff. He was always such a great director because he knew exactly how to say just the right amount to get a performance out of an actor

without saying too much. He would really cut to the chase. I feel like he often was he was often one that got us out early too. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like we didn't have super long days with Cliff. Yeah.

He tended to be like a more responsible, you know, organized director. And so, yeah, anyway, Cliff Bull directed Ken Biller wrote this episode, which is interesting because I think Ken wrote the Bala Vidian episode faces as well. he write that episode? Yeah, you know, I'm kind of bummed, man, because, like, Boll never wrote me a good episode. Like, you wrote great episodes for Lhanna. Yeah, sorry, Ken Biller never wrote me any great episodes.

He wrote a great episode for, for more than one for Roxanne, and now he writes a woman for the doctor, you know. Yeah, and also I was incorrect in thinking that you had a lot of time off. You didn't have a lot of time off. You actually had some days that you worked on. No, I had to. I definitely had. And that's an interesting, because that started sparking some memories this episode. All of a sudden, I was like, wait a minute. I'm remembering some things. Hey, we're missing something, Robbie. We're missing our, let's do our synopsis breakdown. Yeah, before we get too into it. See, we were both, we were both really, you know, I think interested in and taken by this episode because we're diving right into all these. We were kind of in love with this episode. We were distracted, just like we really were. Exactly. Yes, we were unnerved, as the doctor said. Okay.

Would you like me to start with haiku this time? Yeah, why did you start with a hykoo? Distress call from Pell. Hollow body cancels phage. Schmullis falls in love. Wow. There you go. There you go.

There's a haiku. I like it. Shmullis. I didn't get Schmullis into my limerick. That's quite okay. That's quite all right. Let's hear the limerick. Okay, here we go with a limerick.

Now, I want you to remember the opening scene when Paris first comes in and he goes, and Chacotta's like, where were you? And he goes, picture this. And talks about, Paris goes, picture this. Yes. Yeah. Can you do it in an Irish accent, Kanye? I don't know if I can.

This is a tricky one. I don't know. That's all right. Because this is a little, it's a little crammed together, this limerick. Anyway, here we go. Just remember when Paris started the first scene with, Picture this. Picture this.

I was, yeah, whatever he said. He had some excuse. He started with picture this. So here we go. Picture this. I'm just getting ready to leave the mess hall. Then the doctor, he answers a distress call. His program's adapting.

He wants to go dancing. He's in love, but he can't have it all. That's my name. Oh, nice. It's all rhyming with. What are you writing the all with? a distress call mess hall a call all yeah picture this i'm getting ready to leave the mess hall

then the doctor he answers a distress call his program's adapting if you know what i mean he wants to go dancing it's a little it's not exactly right he's in love but he can't have it all have it all all all all all all all all all all all all all all it's a little it's limericks are you know they're they're tricky they are tricky to have a good limerick right so yeah okay Picture to this.

I'm just getting ready to leave the mess hall. And the doctor, he answers a distress call. His program's adapting. He wants to go dancing. He's in love, but he can't have it all. That was horrible. See how much, no, that was great. That actually made delimerick.

The minute you throw in the Irish accent, I'll start practicing them with an Irish accent. I am sure there are some actual Irish people listening to this and they're probably going, that's not how we sound. We don't talk like that at all. Yeah, that's horrible. You're making us sound like a lucky charms.

We don't talk like that. So we apologize. Yeah, I'm just trying to give it a little Irish flavor. Yeah, because you are. Aren't you? I'm mostly Scottish, really.

Have you done a DNA test? Like, do you know your breakdown? I'm mostly Scottish. Pretty much all Scottish. Yeah, I did the 23 and me. I was like, I was really hoping for. some exotic combination of, like, you know, all the continents and interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Just Scottish. British Isles? What percentage are you? Like 99.8%. Scottish? Dang.

British Isles. Which is all. British Isish. Okay. Just general UK. Literally 0.2% of Northern European. The rest was literally all British Isles. So you have no Asian in you whatsoever.

No Asian, no African, no, no Mediterranean, no nothing. I was really hoping for some of that. Robbie, you are probably as white as can be. That's basically what it comes down to. You are a very white man. Yeah, I was really hoping. I did the 23M anything. I was hoping to get like really interesting, you know,

connection to something I had no idea about. A lot of people do, but I got no. Oh, yes. I would have to say probably 90% of, of the Caucasian people I know. When they do a DNA test, it ends up coming up. I'm two percent West Indian. I'm like, what? Or I'm one percent Mongolian. There's always a little of something, but not with you. No, no, nothing. Did Rebecca do it? Yeah. And did she did she have any strange, any random? She had a little African, and I forget, West African,

and I forget, it was a very small percentage, but it was like, she's a redhead. And it's like, what she's like paler me there are probably ginger west africans as well probably yeah it's like a ginger pet like a reddish undertone yeah yeah she had like two percent or something like i was really jealous about that yeah because she's more fair skin than you are much more fair skin yeah i think yeah she's yeah for sure okay well there we go there's the haiku that's our Haiku and a limerick. And let's just start with the very first scene. You come into the bridge and you make the announcement to the entire bridge.

Sorry I'm late, but I have a very good excuse. Picture this and you start going into it. Yeah, exactly. He's really wants everybody to know that he's got a good excuse. You're making this big entrance. And then why am I tapping your arm? Why did I just, you know, like when you were like station? You were like, look over Chakotay's mad, dude.

Oh, is that what I was doing? Yeah, you were like, stop talking so loudly. You're embarrassing me. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, that's a little awkward moment. And then it is. And then we immediately get the distress call

and we see that there's a very weak life signs and we beam aboard this Vidyan, this female Vidyan. De Nara Pell. De Nara Pell. I like that name. Dinaapel. The implant, we realize, is what's keeping her alive, that the doctor says this implant is like a neurocortical stimulator or something. It's stimulating all of the organs, but they're only functioning, I think he said,

20%, and it was declining rapidly. So she's really dying any minute now, and he's got to do so. Yeah, yeah. By the way, it was the third time that you were late. I just want to throw that out there in one week. yeah third time yeah clearly there's a pattern of being a problem going on yes and i've seen that the last few episodes so there's definitely something and don't be critical because from the comments from our fans like when you were really critical one of the prior episodes like i can't believe paris is doing this and and and all the fans are like because in a later episode it explains it all so we're not there to that point but but you are doing for a reason Well, it's definitely starting to add up. I can see, and I do remember some of these things that are

coming up. One thing about Paris going through this, whatever he's going through right now, is I've just been enjoying all the different hair incarnations that you've had. Like, I don't know what's going on to this week, but it's crazy. You've got some crazy. I've got a loop-de-loop going on. It's like a loopy waterfall thing. Yeah. I can tell before I even open my mouth, in the scene now that the messier the hair the more trouble paris is going to try to be he just look at the hair and immediately it's like he's got to tell he's got to tell it's all you know that's your hair tell yeah most people have a tell like a facial you know twitch or something but you have a hair tell so the messier the more trouble you are all right i'll buy that um

All right. So the doctor creates a hollow version of De Nara Pell. Yeah. And there was an awkward moment where he created the bones and the musculature and then the epidermal layer. And then I was like, wait a minute. They're all standing there with this naked Vodian right there. And I was like, put some clothes on her.

And he quickly, you know, from the records, whatever. Yeah. Computer records. computer files can you put clothes on her who right it was awkward for a minute yeah you think that was a body double do you think that was when it showed her legs from that one angle was that i don't think so no i don't think so that was probably the actress i think by the by the way um the actress that was in the makeup i don't think was ever the actress that played dunarapel i don't think she ever what no they had a double who was in the makeup over on the table physically behind bob and what was the actress's

name that played dinara uh susan d'all dial deal deal d i'm i'm not sure if i'm pronouncing that correctly dial dial something deal whatever it is susan uh i don't think was ever in that makeup i think that was a double because if you had bob picardo and susan playing dinara healthy dinara hologram and then you saw in the background the Sikvidian De Nara that had to be a third person who was in the makeup and they would not have spent the money I'm telling you I know how cheap Paramount is

they would not have spent the money for another makeup for the actress just for that final dance scene that would be the only time that it could have possibly been the actress and I think and I hate to give a spoiler here at the beginning of the podcast but when the doctor goes

and dances with her at the very end for that one. You notice she never speaks. That's because I think they put the stand in, the body double. No. In makeup in that dancing. They would not have made an entire makeup for the actress or

they would have had her speak. But the reason she doesn't speak is because it was not the actress. It was the body double. You just spoiled it for me. I am sorry, but I'm going to tell it like it is. I am going to tell it like it is. Okay. That's how that I would put money

I would put so not big money I'd put some but I'm telling you I think that's what it was Robbie in the prior episode the Death Wish what we reviewed last week

okay so we see John Delancey and other and John Delancey again in the witness scene so why aren't they spending money to put you know green screen Susan Dior guest star on the on the bio bed

and then the real one there whole makeup which has to be you have to go into a life cast and get fitted for the entire head. If it's just the forehead, which the actress did have a forehead piece, that's a much different mold. You don't need a full life cast mold for that,

but you would need a lot of sculpting and a lot of makeup for the other stuff. I'm telling you, I guarantee you they did not make because the Videan character, the Videan Dinarah never spoke. Did you ever hear her speak a line? let me think i don't think so no i don't think so true she's on the bobbed the entire time she doesn't

she never wakes up from it she comes in the very end scene to do the dance with with the doctor yes that was a double that was not the actress never and even the doctor didn't even say anything they just started dancing yep that's so crazy so sorry to ruin that romantic moment and it was super romantic but yeah telling you that was the double they never put the actress in a full makeup. Okay. Well, you know, Ken Biller would know this, right? Yes, he would. We should make some calls. Yeah, Ken would know for sure, right? So maybe he could answer that for us.

Chacote goes into Janeway shortly after this. We, you know, he goes in, he goes in, he goes in and tells Janeway, he goes, your Paris is causing some trouble and he's your personal reclamation project. I was insulted by that. I'm just going to say right now, how dare him? I was much more than Janeway's personal little reclamation project. You sound like you're like a, I don't know, you're like a public work, like you were a dam or something. Yeah, exactly. I was a broken swamp. You were a broken swamp. You were a bog that needed reclamation. My goodness, that's really kind of offensive. but it was a little offensive but you know paris is going through stuff

these first couple seasons he's growing up he's growing up um yeah dinar pal wakes up uh from her her holographic uh version of herself with clothes um the doctor is very cocky about his idea was my idea he's very yeah bob is so good in this episode he really takes some moments that that could be uh you know misfires

and he just very subtly plays the comedy and delivers the lines perfectly. I thought it was great. You skip the scene with Torres, the whole, you know, asking to extract tissue from her brain, basically. Well, that's, yeah, right? Right.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, that happens. And Balana gets really pissed off. I feel like the doctor could have, you know, as this whole episode shows, the doctor is often not very sophisticated with his presentation of things and he does not present things in a in a sensitive way to balana so she gets really pissed off about yeah donating

some of her brain tissue to the people that that experimented on her and tortured her and were just horrific to her so yeah he's so blunt he's so blunt um and i thought it was really lovely. I thought our guest actress playing De Nara comes in and gives a beautifully compassionate and lovely delivery of you know you don't have to do this if you

don't want to you know that and apologizes and explains how desperate her people are and it really turns Bala and Bala agrees to help yep which I thought was a really great scene for Roxanne and a really great turn for her

Yeah. I also love the moment. So as the day, that day is ending and she doesn't want to go to sleep. The doctor says, well, we should deactivate your, you know, your hologram to save, it won't put such a drain on the body itself. And she's like, but I don't want to go to sleep. I have too much energy. I want to tour the ship. And he says, well, you're welcome to. use my office and uh brush up on some medical medical journals journals it was great uh then he realizes we can go to sandrines and so that's where we're at i love neelix's laugh in the beginning when you guys are playing pool he's like ah he does this really funny little laugh whatever he does so he's very funny that was a little cute and he comes over and tells the doctor, you know, who's your date? And he's like, this is not my date. I love, I love

the doctor. I love the idea that he's unaware, you know, he definitely, as we see later, has his first, he falls in love, truly falls in love for the first time. Has his first deep crush, the one that

as Paris says later on, that, you know, you'll never forget that you never quite get over and you remember the rest of your life. Yeah. But he doesn't know what's happening he doesn't understand his programs adapting he doesn't yeah in sand dreams when they're having that initial conversation and when they're getting to know each other she talks about because he says i could come here every day i love it here and the doctor says well you don't have recreational facilities back in your place and she says well congregating in groups

is strictly regulated it's considered a threat to public health and all i could think of is hey Welcome to 2020. That's what we're dealing with. I thought the same thing. Oh, so relevant. So relevant, you know. And it's just, you know, it's sad that not everyone agrees with that right now in 2020. Not everyone believes that it's a threat.

But hearing that in this episode made me think of what we're dealing with right now. Yeah. And by the way, that is not the same actor playing the jingalow. No. That guy that comes up, I'm like, that's not the will you be in my private felucca to Janeway that guy that I mean you yes I forgot about the private felucca fluca yeah what is a felucca was I don't know but that guy who was a was a very model that guy looked like a model that we had in the

yes clearly yeah this guy was like who is this guy is he this guy was like president of the fraternity like he wasn't modely looking but he was like a big jockey looking yeah he was a bro he's a bro yeah but not He's the bro jigolo. He was, we've got the bro jigolo and the European jigolo. So clearly, European jigolo was not available for filming at this time, or his agents were asking for too high of a price for his private felucca. Yeah, he wanted to purchase a private felucca, so he maybe asked for a higher rate or something.

By the way, Paris was just an extra in this scene. I noticed that I didn't say a word. I did not say a word. Just playing pool in the background. I also learned that the doctor had cured neelix of a horrific disease called an acute case of the hiccups, which I never knew. Which then brings her to this, you know, laughter. Yeah. She starts kind of having feelings for the doctor. And I do believe with a lot of women that laughter is the way to a woman's heart. You know what I'm saying?

If you can make a lady laugh, you've, you've, you've already run half, you've already run half the marathon. At that point, you've, you've gotten, you know, to a really good position, I think. Yeah. We learned some other things about the doctor that he's activated on start eight, four eight, three, oh, we know that. We know that he mentions, um, that we learn that the doctor doesn't dance because it's not part of his programming. That's another thing that we learn. Uh, we also learn that, uh, he mentions several clinical studies have shown humor to be therapeutic. And, yeah, that's,

something, yeah, that I've actually known for many, many years that there have been cases of individuals who are stricken with terminal cancer, and they have actually beaten that and, you know, been cancer free from laughter of all things, and not traditional medicine, not any type of chemotherapy, but actually just exposing themselves to watching so many different types of comedies. And so, yeah, humor does, or laughter really is the best medicine in the way, I think. So that's something of note that people should remember. Agreed. She also in this moment when he makes her laugh and he talks about it being therapeutic, she says that her uncle, Schmullis, used to make her laugh. Make her laugh. And that's why she suggests the name for the doctor.

And he likes it. Yeah. unfortunately I don't know why I mean maybe Ken Biller came up with that name for because of some personal connection but to me it just sounds very close to the Yiddish word schmuck which is not a good name to have you know what I'm saying so shmull the whole that's very Yiddish sounding or schmool shmool is a isn't that another wasn't there something in Laverne and Leverne and Shirley Chamazel. Incorporated or something.

I don't know. Shlemazel. But the Shmool, when you mentioned that, I actually went to college with Eliezer Ben Shmul. So that's a name. That's a name, yeah. So Ben Shmul means son of Shmul. So, yeah.

So maybe she just called him Shmul. Or maybe Shmul was the name that Ken Biller had. Maybe Ken Biller's uncle was Shmull. I know Ken Biller's Jewish. it's very possible. He has an Israeli uncle named Schmol. And he's Schmulis. Schmullis.

But very endearing that she calls him this. It's very cute. It's very cute. They almost kiss. They almost kiss in this very, in this scene, actually. You see that little, yeah. And it doesn't happen. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think they go back after Sandrine's. They go back to Sick Bay. Mess hall, actually. You're missing a scene. Yeah, we go to the mess hall right after Sandrine. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. right and this is where you say to chicote my problem is you so this is your little

rebellious in your hairs again still rebellious yeah my hair is very rebellious in this episode okay and then what scene were you going to i was thinking about actually the scene before the mess hall right after um right after sandrines they go back oh did i skip one myself so there's okay and the night they go back after sandrines to sick bay and he says you know, I think I should deactivate you. That's where they almost kiss. That's the almost kiss. Okay. Yeah, they almost kiss there. Correct. And they

almost kiss and they almost kiss and they almost kiss in the anticipation of it. And then the doctor says, DeNara, I think we should. And she goes, yes. There's this moment where I think we should, yes. And then he goes, deactivate your program. What a buzz kill or another kind of kill. You could

you could call it any romance kill whatever kill you want the doctor yep you could do that face again when you do the yes face we're like yes can you do that again yeah the anticipation face you just did yes yeah that's it that's a great look it it really is I just wonder if that's the look you get you know before you kiss somebody before you kiss I hope not I would scare them off. I think I would scare them to death with that face. I'm making a face of anticipation for those on the podcast that if you could see it, it might frighten you. Yes. Well, let's just describe it. What happens is Robbie sort of like looks, he moves his head closer and looks up a little bit and his eyes are wide-eyed and he's like, yes. And he looks like a schoolgirl about to be, you know,

I don't know what it is. Well, that's how DeNara felt. And then the doctor said, activate your program. Yes. Oh my God. Buzz kill. All right. Then again, he has no game though.

He's never had to have games. So he's trying to figure out. He's learning. He's adaptive. Yeah. So he's adapting. Yeah. So we're in the mess hall.

Paris and Chacote definitely get into a very, another heated discussion. Yeah. And doesn't like how Chacote is running things. And we noticed Jonas in the mess hall. Yeah.

And we're starting to connect Jonas looking at what Paris is doing. And we know that Jonas is talking to the Kazan and to Seska. So clearly, there's going to be a connection there. There's clearly there's some, you know, he's watching. There's going to be something down the road. There's a setup here. There is. It's a setup.

It's setting it up for the future, right? So we see that. And then we have a. was just doing my anticipation face I'm excited everyone listening is going to say why is Garrett laughing for no reason because Robbie's doing his schoolgirl

anticipation face of anticipation did you pick me okay you are the bell of the ball Jonas now we see Jonas talking secretly to the Kazon and he was asked

to plan an accident to damage Voyager's warp coils. Yes. To do sabotage in the name of the Kizan. Yep. And he's not too happy about that. No, he's finally like, I need to talk to SESCA or I'm not doing anything. And let's see, what's, you know we at now?

Well, the doctor is back in sick bay. The doctor is running a diagnostic on himself to try to figure out what is going on. And Kess is in there. She says, she says, well, maybe, maybe it. Maybe, maybe it's, you know, it's romance. Yeah. He says, that's impossible. He's not programmed to handle romance.

Correct. And she recommends to him that she need, the doctor needs to tell De Nara how he feels. Yes. But she fails to tell him or teach him the lesson of timing. Yes. The very important lesson of timing and sensitivity. And so right in the more, in the middle,

of a surgery on Pell's sick body with a holographic pill right next to him he takes that advice and says something like by the way

I'm romantically attracted to you and was wondering if you feel the same way as he just works and Sadly, she's so surprised that in that moment, she says, you know, I think we should just keep things professional. Yeah. He caught her off guard. He caught her off guard.

And yeah, it was, it was, he almost really screwed up. Yes. Yeah. But boy, boy did Bobby Picardo play rejection well. He really just, he showed it in, it was so subtle, but it was definitely there that he's rejected by Dinar. You could see in his face. And so who does the doctor go to for romantic advice? The doctor goes to the love doctor.

Yes, that's who he goes to. The love doctor. I thought that was a great scene. I mean, I had forgotten that I'd done that scene with Bob. Yeah. But I thought any memories. Any memories of shooting that scene that come to mind? I remember when I walked, I vividly remembered the blocking for some reason,

because I remembered when I walked. over to the uh to refill my water or whatever yeah that sort of moment where bob was looking at me and then sort of turned away and i knew how the shot was playing that you know it was sort of wide and it wasn't until he turned and sat down that his reaction to what he had heard sort of played and i thought it was staged beautifully again cliffballs old school you know been around a long time i was i remember in that scene uh noticing and noting for myself with my directing ambitions how beautifully and simply it was staged to really amplify certain moments like that when when paris tells him about you know the first the first love

and you know that you'll never forget it and talks about susy crab tree i think paris talks about he knew immediately the girl that was his first love yeah you broke out in hives yeah from susy crab tree and but talking about the stage of how simple it was what you were saying it's sometimes true it's the kiss rule keep it simple stupid so the simplicity of a of a camera move or blocking sometimes is much better than this complex and then you do this and then you do that it's like and then it gets muddy it gets really it's it's confusing right so it was simple and it was good um Megan suggested something interesting she said uh why don't you ask Robbie what does Susie Crabtree look like in his in his estimation

Is she blonde? Is she brunette? Is she a red head? And also, who would you cast in that role? What actress would you cast in that role? What is the image of Paris's Susie Crabtree? I think Paris's Susie Crabtree was like, I think she was probably like a Judy Garland in the old Mickey Rooney movies,

like kind of the fresh-faced, you know, slightly freckled girl next door maybe a little tomboyish but pretty and smoky and that would be the susy crab tree i think that that paris would be talking about oh okay because i know robbie mcneill's version of susy creptory is always going to be petite you like more petite women that's been your you think people i mean do you think like like the doctor did he have a type that he felt for did you know, did Janeway have a type for? Do you think I don't know, I don't think the doctor, no. I don't, yes, I do

think people have a type in general. Yes, I do. I do because I see it in Bob Picardo's real life, what his type is. You know what I'm saying? Like I know what his ex-wife looks like. I know what his current wife looks like. And there's some similarities and I'm going hmm. And actually, DeNarapel actually in a way kind of resembles some of his preferences in choosing a lady i suppose um but but i do believe that anyone you can end up with someone who's against your type as well you know as like i said if somebody makes somebody laugh if

somebody does something that you feel a connection with that person could be different from your standard type so it's not always black and white there's definitely gray area there for sure um so judy garland yeah i think that would be my yeah yeah Tom Parris' Susie Crabtree. So, yeah, so they go, you know, Tom Parris says, I've got an idea. And we go to, we find out that idea was the scene you remember, the old cars sitting on Mars. Yeah. Looking at the, you know, the beautiful stars in the sky.

And it was very romantic. By the way, that song that was playing, I only have a. my parents used to listen when I was a very young kid they had a bunch of 45s that were their their songs from the 50s when they were kids you know teenagers yeah and um and that song was one of their favorites that I remember as a kid my parents would play wow on the record player over and over so that was great song though yeah I love that song perfect song yeah I love that 57 Chevy as well yeah I like that vehicle yeah And he offers to try dancing again in that scene.

So they keep that idea of dancing alive. And she goes, no, no, no, let's just sit here. Let's just sit here. We go, and it's a beautiful scene, very romantic. We go on the bridge and Paris is late again. And Chacote says, you know, that's fine. Get out of here. We don't need you anymore.

This is enough is enough. And Paris gets really hot. It goes to Janeway for a little help. And then Chacote grabs his arm, grabs, my arm. Yeah. How dare he? And so Paris shoves him and Chocote just tumbles down pretty, either Paris is really strong or Chocote

needs to do go to the gym a little. I don't know with that, that, okay, that to me look like when you're watching a soccer game and one of the players that pretends to fall like really, yeah, the flop. That was a flop. I'm like, come on, man. What the heck was that? A total flop. Because weren't you, Robbie, weren't you pulling away from him?

Your arm, you're trying to like, don't. So when you pull your arm away from somebody, the other person doesn't fly to the ground. I don't know. It was a little, it was a little silly. I don't know. I think they just wanted some like physical interaction. So now Paris is in the brig. Take him to the brig.

Tuvac. We'll see what happens. Interesting that we cut right to a Cessca scene from Paris going to the brig. Cessca and Jonas talking and she basically says like she is going to take Voyager. She's not going to raise a child on a Cazon ship. And she says, meet me at Hemek-4. Hemmich-4 at this planet in a couple of days. And I'll give you the details of the plans. We know something. going down with Kazan, Seska, Jonas, this stuff is getting real. They are still working on Pell, and the doctor is in there performing a synaptic transfer at this point, when all of a sudden, things start to go wrong. And he's like, I don't understand.

The graft is not, is being rejected. Yeah. What's going on? And he checks the medicines, and he talks to Kess, and then finally, Pell admits. They find no toxinol, let's say it. Like, they find an toxinol instead of the servaline. so now go ahead she admits she admits that yes she was the one that administered the drug that she does not want to go back to living in that body yeah and uh which then robby gave me

flashes of our last episode of death wish of you know sort of like i just want to just end it right now you know i'd rather just live my next couple days with you yeah um sad you know it is sad and it's you know, there was an issue for the first time in this episode, this issue of sort of beauty came up of physical beauty that, you know, well, if I look like that, then you won't love me anymore, she says. Correct. And he wonderfully says, you're not that body. You're just, you know, that's not who you are. You're just sick. And, you know, we can, we can fix you and we can work on fixing you, you know, getting you well. But that's not, you know, your physical appearance is not what I love

basically. Some version of that is what the doctor said. Yep. Yep. And she thought before Voyager, she felt like she was just a disease, that she wasn't the person that the doctor Shmulus fell in love with. And he

would love her no matter what condition she was in, she said, he says. And I love that last moment in Sandrine's where you're like you know, we don't, we don't know exactly what's going to happen really. And then we go to Sandrine's and we see that she did choose to not reject the transfer, to get her body, you know, to back into, you know, survival mode at least,

and to go back and help the people on her planet. So you see them have a last dance there, which was a beautifully poetic little moment, I thought. It was, but Robbie, that wasn't entirely clear to me. Like for me, I was wondering, did she really make that choice? Oh, really? Did she do? Yeah, because like part of me felt maybe she did choose to not get back in the body and to die. And then that representation was of her in her, her regular, you know, body was just to show that the doctor loved her inner beauty and not her exterior beauty. And that was the end of the, that was the end of her life.

That's interesting. That wasn't clear to you. To me, that was really clear is that. If she's there in that form, that means he got, he, he revived her, convinced her and revived her body and, you know, that she is now back in a body and not the holographic version. He had a line, though. The doctor had a line. I want to just read out here because I thought it was so beautiful.

I went back and listened to it a couple of times. The doctor said in that next to the last scene where he's convincing her to stay with him for a couple of weeks. We can be together for a couple of weeks before you would go back. And he says, you said that before you knew me, you were just a disease. Well, before you, I was just a projection of photons held together by force fields. A computerized physician doing a job, doing exceptionally well, of course. But still, it was just a profession, not a life.

But now that you're here and my program has adapted, I'm not just working anymore. I am living, learning what it means to be with someone, to love someone. I don't think I can go back to the way things. were either. I thought that was a beautiful line. It was so well written by Ken Biller. I think it captures something that a holographic technology doctor is discovering and expressing, but we can all relate to that, that feeling of how love can make us feel

alive and the things that not just love, but the things, the experiences in life that allow us to be more than just someone doing something, you know, being a doctor, being a whatever, doing what we do. But actually, is that tied into your, with your theme? It is. It is. It is. My theme is, uh, is, where's my theme? My theme is I thought of the quote, it's better to have loved and lost than to never love at all. That's, that was the theme to me is the doctor had never loved before and and even though there was pain and he says in that early in that first seen like why would anyone choose this um that it was worth it that his program altering to learn what love is was worth it it's better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all so that's my

theme okay yeah what about you what's your theme a couple of things uh yeah kess's quote to dinara Kess's quote in sickbay she says there's nothing sadder than a missed opportunity which was what she was telling to De Nara and and also that's a good quote for the doctor you know like if he didn't make the move then he wouldn't have known you know so that is definitely a theme for me in this episode and also never to judge a book by its cover you know just because De Narpel has this crazy horrific exterior it doesn't really mean that's what is on the inside, right? So I just think those are two quotes that I'm going to throw out there. And you use the quote as well, which is not from this episode, but a quote that people have used before in

the past. Well, great. I really enjoyed that episode. I thought it was a lot of fun. I thought Bob's performance. Our guest actress was phenomenal, I thought. Yeah. And Charlie Russo thinks is a great episode, too. So that's what's important. It was really great. It was really a wonderful episode. Yeah, he did a good job and I enjoyed it too. Two thumbs up. All right. Bing! Okay, guys, thank you for tuning in. Join us next week

when we rewatch and discuss the episode Investigations. And for everyone else, all of you, Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. Thanks a lot, guys. Thanks, guys. See you next week. You know, BOR,

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