The Delta Flyers - Lisa Klink

Starting point is 00:00:00 Well, welcome to yet another episode of the Delta Flyers. And this week we have one of our guests that we've had in the past multiple times. So we want to thank Lisa Kling for coming and joining us yet again on the Delta Flyers. Hi, Lisa. Thank you for your time. Hey, thanks for having me. Great to see you. Great to see you.

Starting point is 00:00:26 And congrats, first of all, for the fact that the writers, Guild has come to a settlement now so that is a wonderful thing how how well versed are you in all the points of contention that the Writers Guild brought up uh in their strength i mean i looked at the the memo of the agreement but i haven't read the whole seven page thing right yeah okay and what were the main points of contention i mean can you like just brush through those like if yeah i mean a lot of it was course is money um you know minimum payments you know went up and uh residual were another big thing because of course

Starting point is 00:01:02 that's what carries us through all that time of unemployment and with the streamers in particular we had trouble with residuals because they weren't sharing their data

Starting point is 00:01:10 about viewership and so unless you know how many people are watching something you can't calculate residuals. That's true. So we worked out

Starting point is 00:01:19 a kind of a compromise in which I believe they're going to tell the Writers Guild about their viewership numbers but not individual members. So the writers Guild should be able to calculate what we should get.

Starting point is 00:01:34 Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what I had read in the summary of the deal. It was like all of the AMPTP streamers agreed that they will share that proprietary data, but that it has to be kept super secret. And it's a whole, yeah, it's a whole thing. Somebody at the Guild gets this information, but none of the individual writers will get this information. It's not public information, yeah.

Starting point is 00:01:58 Correct. got it it's so funny because i heard this great podcast i forget whose it was about it was talking about the nielsen ratings and how they came about and it started with radio although it really exploded with television but it started with radio and the guy nielsen out of chicago he had been like a failed he had failed in so many businesses and then came up with this idea he's like hey i bet all the people that advertise on radio would love to know, like, how many people are listening to that radio show. And then they'll know if they're overpaying or, or, you know, it'll be valuable information. So he started this idea of, like, Nielsen families where they have a box. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:46 And they would willingly, you know, they'd get paid a little money to give all this information of what they were watching and check in and how old were the people in the room, were they under 18 or all that information yeah and that anyway the nielsen ratings were so powerfully profound like they really were drove the business in so many ways and box office like people I remember those were published numbers like you could see in the paper you know the top 100 shows the rankings the nielsen rankings and but everybody had that my my issue with the nelson ratings this whole time is that it is a select portion it's a it's a small sampling of people that they hand these boxes out to it's not a box given to every every tv that's sold in the world or america no it's

Starting point is 00:03:33 not every tv no you can extrapolate like you can you can you can really believe i mean okay yes if you i do i think that if you have enough sample a big enough sample yeah it's kind of like saying uh you know cigarettes give you cancer like do we need to actually have every person smoked to know no no i just like an accurate count i know what you mean though watched that's all It probably could have been more precise and probably didn't take in to account all kinds of variables. Right. Let's say it's 10,000 households. What if those 10,000 households don't like the franchise that we were in?

Starting point is 00:04:09 All right? You see what I'm saying? Or what if that's 10,000 that were chosen are all rabid fans of the franchise we were in? Then all of a sudden now our show is the number one show in the country. You know, that's why I don't like that. So it's just still more the concern is, you know, what if all 10,000 people are all white families or what happens? We're all immigrant families. That's more, I think, what my concern would be.

Starting point is 00:04:31 Yeah, my concern would be the same. It's the demographics. Are we representing culturally the same kinds of percentages or, you know, statistically, is it equivalent to the larger, the greater population? But anyway, there's nothing like that with streamers. And we really, really need it. Yeah. I mean, right now we're relying on the streamers to self-report.

Starting point is 00:04:56 Yeah. But see, that's not fair either, though, isn't it? They can, they can still fudge those numbers. They're saying that trust us, we'll tell you how many times it's been watched. And that's them. How do you police that? There's nobody policing that. I don't understand, though, how, like, if Nielsen could come up with this idea of putting a box on top of a radio or a TV that you pressed a button and you didn't, if they could come up with that idea, why can't they put a box on half a million computers? or an app. It doesn't even have to be a physical box. It could be like, download the Nielsen app and you participate. And then all of your viewing through the streamers is recorded. And then the Nielsen's are what tell us what, just like they used to do in the old years. You should pitch that idea to Nielsen yourself, Robbie. Go make some money out of what you just said. That's a great idea. Well, I think we should do it as the Delta Flyers. It should be an app that we come up with that we hand over to Nielsen. I don't want to give this to the Nielsen.

Starting point is 00:05:56 We don't want to give it. Yeah, we have to come up with their own app. But I think that Netflix knows perfectly well how many people are watching their shows. Oh, heck yeah. You know, like Amazon Prime. I mean, they know. They know every number. They know all of it.

Starting point is 00:06:08 Yeah. Okay, other points of contention, you covered it. Another point of contention that I'm really happy about for TV writers is that they now have a minimum size writing room. Oh. Because especially with the streamers, the number of orders have really been shrinking. And so, you know, we used to do 26 episodes. a season now they do eight or ten right and what they'll do is they'll have like you know two or three writers in a mini writers room they'll write all the episodes and then the writers

Starting point is 00:06:35 will go home and then they'll get into production and that's you know obviously that's really reducing the number of jobs that are just available to writers and so now they have minimums that you know if an episode if a series has like six episodes they need to have three writers and 10 episodes you need to have five writers that kind of thing and i think that's really necessary Yeah. Yeah. That makes it more fair, right? I mean, they were taking advantage of the system beforehand. They were. And I mean, what we didn't win, what it's still a concern is that the writers don't have any production experience. They don't get to stay through production. You know, they don't go to go to production meetings. They don't go to the set. They don't go to casting, nothing like that. They're not allowed to? Is that what you're saying? What do you mean? Pretty much. Okay. I mean, they certainly are not still employed in able to be able to do so.

Starting point is 00:07:25 Oh. Yeah, what we did on the show that I work on. Because the writing staff was all wrapped. Yeah, pretty much by the time we started filming the first episode. Wow. So we saved some money in the writer's budget, save some weeks in there to bring up the more junior writers. Even if they weren't actively producing, they were on set for at least, I think we wanted to give them at least two weeks of, of, of, production time and didn't always line up with a production meeting and filming.

Starting point is 00:07:59 Sometimes they'd come day two of filming. Sometimes they'd come, you know, a couple days because we tried to do it Monday through Friday for a two-week span, but we did try to get them up. But that was all us. That was all us trying to be creative to make sure that these writers were participating in the production and learning how to produce on set, how to talk with directors, how to give notes how to let go of some ideas and kind of go with what's happening and all of that it's yeah there's a lot to learn there so and it's crucial because these are the people who are going to be

Starting point is 00:08:34 running shows yeah you know in what five 10 years yeah so right now we're not training anybody to to be able to do that yeah it reminds me of that sci-fi show that we all worked on together yes um the space show um because you were currently employed all pretty much all through all year all year like three weeks off a year yeah yeah so you were able to come to set even though i don't think that particular show at that time it didn't encourage writers on set like no the boss is there did not encourage participation it was sort of deliver the pages and and wait until the cut comes in to be angry um but we did go to production meetings and we went yes that's true that's true and we were you know allowed to go down to set i mean they didn't

Starting point is 00:09:26 actually chase us out no i loved when you got we all loved when you guys came down we were we were happy to see you we were so happy they're here the writers yeah the resource of having the brains that were in the rooms when all those different possibilities were were you know debated and decided on because sometimes on set you'll you'll go, oh, I know. The great solution is that he should be screaming this in this moment because it's the angry thing. And then if the writer's there, the writer can say, oh, you know what?

Starting point is 00:10:03 It's not on the page, but we did talk about that. And we really don't want to do the screaming thing. That was debated and discussed. We want to do this, you know. So there's some things that aren't crystal clear in the writing, as hard as writers work to make it crystal clear. that having that writer's brain, the experience of being in through the process of all the ideas being debated and some ideas being discarded, it helps a lot.

Starting point is 00:10:33 It's more efficient and get the job done faster too, because you know what they want. Oh, yeah. For sure. All right. Any other things noteworthy-wise? Well, another big thing that is, I think, just even more important for the actors is the AI situation. Okay.

Starting point is 00:10:47 How does that affect the writers, the AI situation? Well, what we're concerned that the studios are going to do is use an AI, you know, chat GPT or whatever the new thing is to generate, you know, the crappy version of the script, you know, the bad first draft. Yeah. And then they'll hire an actual human writer to come in and rewrite it, you know, from page one. And then when we have to pay them the rewrite rate. Right. Because supposedly it's already existing material. Right.

Starting point is 00:11:12 And then also the studio will be the author of that material. They'll have the copyright, all that kind of stuff. as opposed to a spec that is actually generated by a human writer. Okay. So that's what we're really afraid of, is that they're going to try and basically do as much of the writing, you know, or what they consider writing on their end of it. Well, did you guys argue for the rewrite to be paid higher,

Starting point is 00:11:37 be paid more? You know what I'm saying? Well, I think what we came to is that for screenplays, the writer does get first pass at the rewrite. So, like, if I sold a spec tomorrow, I would be contractually obligated to do the first rewrite. Okay. More specifically than that, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot of talk about, you know, they'll have to consult the writer and they'll have to, you know, make things clear to the writer and inform them and all that.

Starting point is 00:12:07 But whether that means that they can go ahead and do it anyway, I'm not sure. Yeah. Okay. But I think the language that the WGA got in this agreement, the language that a script is written by a human. Yes. And a writer is a human. Yes. That is critical language. It's funny because the Directors Guild, which I've been much more a part of, longer, the Directors Guild had some language going way back that described a director as a human person.

Starting point is 00:12:40 And it was before AI, but it was just legal language because the DGA was always concerned about in a similar way that writers are concerned about what a writer is, defining what a writer is and who has ownership of that script. Director, the DGA was concerned about directors defining what is a director. A director is one person, one human person, as I think the contracts reads, taking the responsibility of director in that. So when I'm producing a show, I can't go on and direct the show.

Starting point is 00:13:17 I can't even tell the director how to direct the show. I can give notes. I can ask. My only two options are either let the director direct and interpret my notes however they want and everyone else's notes, or fire that director. That's it. I don't have the option to say,

Starting point is 00:13:34 nope, stop, re-block it a different way. Have them come in that door and shoot it from here. I can't do that because there's only one human director. So they had the language in there. So the DGA actually had that language that you can't have AI direct. So it was not necessary for the DGA to specifically call out AI in quite the same way that the writers needed to because they already had that language. Directors, one human person or team. One thing that they did accomplish is they define the showrunner as the head writer.

Starting point is 00:14:07 as opposed to, you know, some studio executive could declare themselves the showrunner. Yeah. But they now are defining that as the head writer and act, a human person. So that's also good. Which is how it was in the old days, right? Okay. Sort of. I mean, it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:14:24 That's a debatable fact because showrunners were often producers. They weren't directors. They weren't writers. They were producers. And they ran the show and they told the writers, do this, do that. They told the director, do this, do that. And directors and writers often were very much micromanaged by the showrunner, who was neither a writer or a director in the old days.

Starting point is 00:14:51 If you look at like the Dick Van Dyke show, you know, that there's a great, there's a great example of the old days. There was, I forget the producer's name, but then there was the writing staff. And what has evolved is because the head writer, creator of a show is often got the vision. It's their idea. It's their vision. They hear the voices in their head. They know the style and tone. So it makes sense that the creator slash, you know, head writer or whatever is the showrunner. But that wasn't always the case. But the WGA has taken a very active kind of developmental role in making sure that showrunner is, is that vision.

Starting point is 00:15:37 sort of writer in charge of the script, all those things. They have a showrunner training program at the WGA. There's all kinds of, yeah, that's, and you're right, Lisa, that's a big step forward because, you know, the old studios didn't want writers or directors having much power or actors. Lisa, did you know that Robbie got a writing credit on that show that he produced up in Vancouver? I did not know that. Yeah, so he. Are you in a writing credit?

Starting point is 00:16:07 Are you WGA? Robbie. I got my WGU. He's a card carrying member. He's a card carrying member of another union I get to pay dues too. So exciting. Yeah, he got a little help there. Are you still in SAG?

Starting point is 00:16:23 I am still in SAG. I'm still in SAG. I was in AFRA before they combined. So I was in SAG. Well, first I got in Equity, Actors' Equity, the Stage Union. Then I got an AFRA. Then I get in SAG. Then the WGA.

Starting point is 00:16:36 I'm sorry, then the DGA. DGA. Then I also belong to the UBCP, which is the Canadian actor, the union of British Columbia actors, UBCP, and now the Writers Guild. I think that's it, six union. That's a nice. You're all gilded out, Robbie. What would you say?

Starting point is 00:16:57 The producers guild is just like a social club, though. They don't really do much of anything. I was asked to join a couple times, but I'm like, why don't want to spend a, thousands of more dollars on a social club. I don't even live in L.A. Yeah. All right. Any other final notes regarding the strange?

Starting point is 00:17:14 On the stride? Personally, it was a pretty positive experience. I got to say, being out on the lines. Because, you know, working by myself at home, I don't have a lot of interaction with other writers at the moment. And so getting out there and actually being able to talk to people and meet people, especially at the themed pickets. You know, we've had two Star Trek themed pickets.

Starting point is 00:17:38 We've had two that were about women and genre. So I got to meet a lot of other women who write sci-fi and fantasy and his work I admired, but I never actually met. Yeah. So for me, it actually was a pretty positive strike. That's awesome. I think it was great for the whole community, the writing and acting community and directors, although the directors, obviously, they made a deal early on.

Starting point is 00:18:02 And then it's funny, I was always thinking back when this first started, I was like, why don't they all just go out together? Like, why don't the directors and everybody? Why don't we all stand together at the same time? The directors have made a good deal. Like they actually, when I looked at the same sort of back in May, I guess, I looked at the bullet points of all the DGA issues. And they got a lot of, they made a lot of progress.

Starting point is 00:18:27 It's an excellent deal. It's the same rate increases that the Writers Guild. got it's all kinds of safety issues which the dGA is very on top of you know um weapon safety uh all kinds of diversity and inclusion issues i think the dGA's really been um strong in that area but it is sad that there's no unity though robby it's like every union is out for themselves it's like the dGA we're going to deal with our own stuff the actors if everyone got together like you just mentioned you you thought about that the past why can't we have solidarity and unity across the board where everyone's like one big union called the creative

Starting point is 00:19:07 coalition of hollywood or something and it's and then each the cch i like yeah or something and then each of the individual specialists can be in charge of their director's side or their writing side or their accent but they all it's all or none you want the creative people involved in yeah in in your tv and filmmaking your streamers all of them then you got to work with us yeah i think that would be Right. There you go. Although the actors have really been there for us. I got to say there were a lot of actors out on the picket lines even before SAG went on strike. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:41 Oh, for the writers and the directors as well? Yeah. Okay. Let's talk a little bit about your upbringing and where you're from. I know only one fact about you. You're born in Maryland, correct? Oh, I lived in Maryland. Oh, so that's incorrect.

Starting point is 00:19:56 Where were you born? Yeah, where were you born? Washington, D.C. In D.C. What hospital? George Washington Hospital. I wonder where my sister was born. My sister was born in Washington, D.C. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:08 Really? Robbie, you didn't tell me. I wonder if you were born at the same hospital. Yeah, 1971, she was born. 71, not too, not, that's pretty close. That's pretty close. But then you were born in the hospital in D.C., but you were raised in Potomac then or another part of it? Well, we actually moved around a lot.

Starting point is 00:20:26 So we lived in Maryland for a little while, but then we moved out to San Francisco, lived there for a few years and then moved down to Woodland Hills here in L.A. and then to South Pasadena in L.A. And then back to Potomac, Maryland. Okay. So where I went to high school. So that's where I kind of consider that I'm from. Same here.

Starting point is 00:20:47 I moved around a ton until just before like seventh or eighth grade. And then we settled in Atlanta. So I think of Atlanta as home, even though we lived in D.C. in Gathesburg, Maryland, and North Carolina and Philadelphia. and all these places. So all the destinations that you were in California were before your high school years. Yes. Is that correct?

Starting point is 00:21:07 Okay. Yes. So Potomac is where you landed for ninth grade or 10th grade? Actually, I think sixth grade. Sixth grade. So even before high school, even for middle school. Okay. Junior high and high school in Potomac, Maryland.

Starting point is 00:21:18 I have a question, Lisa. So you moved around. You're in middle school. You're back in Maryland. Did you ever, did you get into this through acting? I've never asked you that. Did you do like theater? Did you do plays?

Starting point is 00:21:32 Yeah. I did. Did you? Ah, at least a good plays. Not very prominently, though. It's like I wasn't the lead in all the plays or anything. I usually were in background people or something. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And I kind of got into the behind the scenes stuff. Like the crew and building sets and things like that. Lighting. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Okay. How interesting. What was your favorite?

Starting point is 00:21:59 role that you played when you were when you were acting well i had a lot of fun we did and of green gables one year and i was miss stacey the teacher um and i got to sing you know a solo and all of that which is you know terrifying but fun that's amazing i never knew this i don't know why it just occurred to me to ask you about that but that's amazing she in the solo who did who was your teacher when you did all of this? Was that someone that, who was it? And did they inspire you in some way? Like, do you think that's part of why you pursued writing and screenplays and things?

Starting point is 00:22:41 Sadly enough, I do not remember who my teacher was. Oh. Yeah, I, and it didn't really set me on the, on the Hollywood path. Okay. No. Well, let me ask you this. It was something I did for fun. Right.

Starting point is 00:22:53 When you were in high school or middle school and then high school, what did you think at that point in time your occupation would be? be like were you thinking i'm going to be a fill in the blank at that point well i knew that i liked writing you know and i and i knew that i was probably going to be an english major in college okay and so i thought maybe go to law school right you know or maybe end up teaching uh maybe journalism there were there were a couple different things that i looked at but nothing nothing was really quite the right fit right but then the time the point that you think you were bitten by the bug or at least what what was it that put you on the path towards hollywood like what was the well

Starting point is 00:23:29 It was one specific guest appearance in my film theory class. We didn't have a big film department. I mean, there was nothing about production or anything like that. They just had a film theory class. So I took that, and it was interesting. And they had a producer come out from Hollywood. It was a producer Tom Mount, but I wasn't familiar with and still not really.

Starting point is 00:23:51 But he brought his latest film to screen for us. Frankenstein Unbound. Okay. You read full movie. Oh, my God, it was terrible. But still, he came and he talked to us. And that was the first time that it kind of registered with me that people did this for a living.

Starting point is 00:24:08 This is a real job. This was a real actual, honest to God, job that, like, a grown-up could do. Seriously, that's when it dawned on me that this is something I could do. And so I decided I was going to become a director. Oh, interesting. At that point. A film director. Film or TV.

Starting point is 00:24:27 Okay. because you felt that you could do way better a job than whoever directed that Frankenstein Unbound Well that was true But at the time I was really James Cameron was really big You know Terminator 2 had come out

Starting point is 00:24:41 And I really really loved his work I was like I want to do that I want to go play in that sandbox right there Yeah So that was pretty much what drove me out to Los Angeles That I wanted to go and become the next James Cameron Wow We didn't even talk about it.

Starting point is 00:24:57 Did you take classes, like directing, film directing, film TV classes? I didn't. I did the next best thing. I worked for a director. Yes. Oh. I worked for Catherine Bigelow, actually. Oh, you did?

Starting point is 00:25:09 Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's her development assistant. Wow. That is the next best thing then. Yeah. What years were you there with Catherine? With Catherine.

Starting point is 00:25:18 It must have, it was when the Northridge quake hit. I was working with her then. 94. Because I left from her house got damaged. You said strange days. Is that what you brought up? that project. Do you know I read for that? That's funny. Do you know that I had a callback for that?

Starting point is 00:25:37 Wow. So you met Catherine? Well, let's just put it this way. It was for a black market tech dealer guy, right? So I thought I'm going to have to be, I thought I got to be a little shady, you know, for my callback. So I felt like I had to be, I had to alter my state of consciousness. So I was not even sober at that when I went into that audition because I thought that's what it called for. And I remember, I remember I was so out of it. I got it. I rear-ended someone on the way to the audition. Oh my God. Good. Once I got to the audition. It's called acting. Well, Robbie, after I got to the audition and did the audition with, I think it was Catherine that was there. I don't, you know,

Starting point is 00:26:17 I said, okay, well, thanks. And I turned around to walk out. I walked into the wall instead of the actual doorway. So that was my one time I realized, I can't be like, there's certain actors that can drink a fifth of vodka and they're amazing actors, you know, but I can't be that actor. I have to stay completely sober and not, you know, be messed up and then audition because I thought he's really black market. He's from the underground. He's got to be totally kind of like a tweaker. That's what I thought, you know, and so I totally screwed up my own audition. That's so weird. That's crazy. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So question. When you came over to that sci-fi show that we met you on, we all worked on. Did you talk to them about

Starting point is 00:26:58 this directing thing? Like, did you say? Well, by that time, I wasn't really after directing anymore. Because when I worked with Catherine, I got to go to the set and watch her shooting some strange days. And I realized that, no, I do not want to do this. Oh, wow. Okay. But how did you get that job to begin with, though? Was that from a friend of a connection? Well, I started interning, which is, you know, working for free, reading scripts. Okay. And then when she hired, you know, a development assistant who actually got paid,

Starting point is 00:27:28 she hired me. Okay, so you were reading scripts for her production company as an intern to begin with. Is that what you're saying? Oh, yes. And you were doing your job. Talk about an education. I was reading all of these scripts from like all the major agencies.

Starting point is 00:27:40 Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I found this really encouraging. So this is like, I could write something that bad. Yeah. Did you do like official coverage on that? Did you? Yes.

Starting point is 00:27:53 Okay. So because I took a class on coverage at AFI. Robbie, explain that to people what that means coverage. Well, coverage is basically what Lisa did. She read the scripts and then she would give a summary and there's kind of formats for it. Some people just write coverage in their own format. But when I took this class at AFI, it was a brief overview of doing coverage because I was

Starting point is 00:28:16 trying to learn how to look at scripts myself in a different way. It was more kind of as an actor and also as a wanting to find projects to develop for myself as a director. So I was looking for some structure on how to do coverage. But yeah, you kind of break it down and you break down the plot and the characters and then how it's, you give an opinion on how it's executed and you give a kind of, you know, past fail, basically recommend or no. Yeah. This is worth your time to continue to look at or not to look at, right? Yes. Yeah. Okay. And so you, when you got that job, how many, when you were interning, how many scripts were you reading per week or per day? Like, what was it? What was it at? Every day, every day, at least four or five or five. Do you imagine that, Robbie? That's your job. Four or five scripts a day that you're reading through. Oh, God. How many interns were there doing this besides you at the time? Well, when I was initially interning, I think there were two of us. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:23 Then when I became the development assistant, I believe it was just me. Okay. And it was just you doing that. Yeah. But I mean, talk about grad school. I mean, I got to read and analyze hundreds and hundreds of screenplays. It was great. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:36 Yeah. With Catherine Bigelow, too. With Catherine Bigelow who got all the best stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. So you saw everything, which is amazing. I saw everything.

Starting point is 00:29:43 That was a real education. You couldn't have even paid for that. Am I right? I mean, it was more valuable than getting any type of graduate degree at any film school is for you being right there next to Catherine Brigolo and then plucked out of internship into paid assistant job, which is fabulous. How long did you spend doing that for? How many years was that? I probably spent about a year and a half with her. Okay. And during that time is when I decided that I was going to write. And so I was working on my own stuff and I was working on a screenplay

Starting point is 00:30:12 and I wrote a couple of really bad screenplays, you know, action screenplays, which were just terrible. but then I actually went to a convention where they were talking about you know how to submit to a certain franchise and that they would read any script that you sent in and I was like I could do that so I wrote a script and I sent it in and that's what kind of got me in thinking television

Starting point is 00:30:36 I could do that I love television I especially like sci-fi I could do that and that's literally how I got my foot in the door it's so interesting because Bigelow was so important in your life because Bigelow was the point in your life you realized you did not want to be a film director. You saw what it was like on set with assisting her. And then after reading script after script and a lot of them very substandard quality scripts, you realize, hey, I could probably throw my lot into this game and that's how your career started. That's really interesting. So what does

Starting point is 00:31:10 this say, ladies and gentlemen, and other people out there, other orientation people? This means that intern to interning or having an internship can lead to great, great things, especially in Hollywood. You have to be able and willing to work for free for a while. Yes. You can sustain that. That's right. So you have to be able to afford to not get paid for a while. And that's a big stumbling block.

Starting point is 00:31:32 That's a big stumbling buck. Yeah. That's tough. Because you got to build up savings. I have a question for you. So you were working, you got this amazing job, which was in the industry with Catherine Bigelow. And while you were doing that job, you were working on your own creative projects, writing and things on the side.

Starting point is 00:31:53 How do you balance? Like for me, there's sort of structural discipline to my day if I'm trying to be efficient and productive. I have a structure. Like, here's my schedule, my calendar. Here's how I'm spending my time. There's a time management thread. And then there's kind of a creative thread. How do you balance that when you, because a lot of people that listen to our show,

Starting point is 00:32:17 like, they have day jobs, but they want to be creative. Like, how did you balance your day job and being creative and being productive like that? Well, fortunately, I wasn't very closely supervised. I mean, again, my boss was off directing and, you know, was really consumed with that. And so I basically sat in an office by myself. So I could create my own schedule. And what I would do is I'd spend the first two hours of the day, you know, when I got in, you know, I'd get there at 9 o'clock and I'd spend until 11 running on my own

Starting point is 00:32:44 stuff. Right. And then I spend the rest of the day doing coverage. Right. Oh, okay. There you go. Yeah. If you, if you are able to manage your time and get your job done responsibly, your day job, done responsibly and less than the time allotted, then to spend some of the time on your own thing makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah, I was really lucky to be able to do that. Yeah. Can I ask a little bit about your creative process in terms of when you decide to write about something, is it something that you're out and about and you see something or you see an interaction or you read about something and you're thinking, hey, this would be a great idea to sort of extrapolate and get a little bit into it, you know, pull it out into something bigger and better. Like, how do you

Starting point is 00:33:34 do that as a writer just to get your creative process? Well, I'm a big outliner. And certainly TV, you know, working for TV really promotes that because you absolutely have to do an outline. And but that suited me pretty well. I mean, I'm, you know, I still work with like, you know, index cards that I, you know, tape up on my, on my wall, you know, move around scenes and stuff like that. So these days, like if I get an idea, first I have to figure out where I want to put it. Does it seem like a movie? Does it seem like a series? I mean, right now I'm running a graphic novel, you know, I've written some short stories. So I kind of have to see what what scale it kind of feels like to me. Right. And then, you know, kind of fit it into that

Starting point is 00:34:19 format, you know, is it going to be a pilot script? Is it going to be, you know, react structure, that sort of thing. And like I said, and then I outline the whole thing before I start writing. Do you use specific writing software when you write? I use Final Draft. Final Draft. Would you say that is the main program that most writers use in Hollywood? It is, and that's actually why I use it because, you know, like I wrote a couple episodes for the TV show Pandora, and they used Final Draft. And so, you know, if I'm sending them files and stuff,

Starting point is 00:34:48 I had to send them, you know, with that program. Gotcha. It just makes most. What did you use back on that sci-fi show that we worked on? Because Final Draft might have been around. I don't think it was. I think it was like a... It was around then, guys.

Starting point is 00:35:05 I know it was around then. But it was very early. I have a copy of it back then. It was definitely not the standard. Like there were three or four or five different ways that people wrote, programs people used. And some people just used a template on like Microsoft Word. I think that's what we did.

Starting point is 00:35:24 I think so too. Yeah. I think that's what Brandon did. But I know the final draft has been around for a long time for sure. But it wasn't, it wasn't like. I don't think it was around huge in the 90s. I thought it was that everyone. use it in the 90s too.

Starting point is 00:35:36 It was up and coming, but I don't think it was a lot of templates on Microsoft Word because just like Lisa said, you had to be able to share that file with the whole staff and with your script coordinator and all that stuff. Yeah. And so it had to be a file that everyone could deal with. And if it was, if somebody was working on final draft and somebody else was working on Word Perfect or I don't know, whatever the other ones were, right, you'd have all these different files that couldn't talk to each that weren't compatible yeah yeah okay all right well final draft is it

Starting point is 00:36:10 now if it wasn't it if it wasn't it back in the 90s it is the end all beyond yeah for the most yes what do you think about i have a creative process question yes what are your thoughts on collaboration versus independent work good question i like both um i mean i really enjoy the writer's room of television I mean, assuming that you're working with good people, you know, it's not one of those toxic environments that you, you know, read about and burn it down. But if it's a good, positive environment, the way it was when I was on the franchise show, it was really positive. It was so much fun. It was just like, you know, bouncing around ideas and ooh, how about this? And oh, and then we could do it that way and then this other thing.

Starting point is 00:36:55 Yeah. And that was a blast. So that sounds fun to me, actually. It is. It is. It's totally fun. But then, you know, obviously, when I wasn't working on a show, I would be, you know, working by myself. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:08 But I actually have a writing partner that I do work with sometimes. And we're both writing the graphic novel together. So how does that work then? When you have a writing partner, do you guys say, I'll take this, this block of scenes, you take this block of scenes? Or do you go both work on the same scenes? No, we broke it down together, you know, we've done into, you know, an outline. And then, yeah, I'd be like, okay, you take, you know, this sequence. And then I'll take this sequence.

Starting point is 00:37:32 and then we kind of swap it and give each other notes. Nice. And, you know, kind of meld it into one voice. Yeah. And that works pretty well, too. It does with, with this writing partner that I'm working with. Yeah. I mean, obviously, it has to be the right person.

Starting point is 00:37:46 But I've known him for, like, 20 years. Oh. And he's one of my best friends. And so we really, we really function well as a writing team. Did he write on the franchise that we all worked on? Did he? No, but that's what we met. Oh, you met around the same time.

Starting point is 00:38:01 Oh. Yeah. okay cool fabulous yeah this uh this episode that i wrote on this other show this show i did last this last year i co-wrote it with the creator of the show and so we did the whole you know the room broke the episode and was part of that and then he and i went through and sort of wrote the outline collaboratively very much kind of we both worked on outline points put it in our words and then combined our documents a bit worked very and then uh he He said, I'm going to take the first three acts and you take the last three acts.

Starting point is 00:38:35 I'll talk to you in a week or two. So we sort of did our separate work and then we traded documents. And then we worked, you know, I polished and made changes. And then we started sort of putting it into collaboration. But there was a point where he had three acts and he was working very independently. And I had three acts and I was working very independently. How was that? It was great. I love the process. He's a very experienced showrunner. Chris Sheridan is his name. He's written on a ton of comedies and lots and lots of shows. And he's very good at making the process pleasant and fun and creative, you know, and positive feedback. And so, and making it feel safe. So it was great.

Starting point is 00:39:26 The best showrunners do that. Yeah. They really make you feel like you can you can volunteer a really stupid idea. And you're not going to. going to get like made fun over or laughed out about it you know that it's okay well that doesn't work let's like something else yeah you know and you yeah you can feel safe yeah yeah he's very good at that i've i've worked on i haven't written obviously nearly as much as you it's that was not my main job but i've i've written some other development things that i've sold with some other writers and things like that anyway my point is i've also been in writing rooms like comedy rooms talking about like dramas are so much easier and tend to be much more supportive comedy rooms like the writing room and a comedy it is cutthroat like talk about not feeling safe yeah they're

Starting point is 00:40:13 trying to beat everybody's joke and oh that's that's that's that's your joke oh yeah well what about you know they're just like it's very it's very competitive it's very competitive i don't know if i like yeah yeah it can be very it can be very cutthroat Lisa have you been keeping up to date with Multi-Flyer episodes. Have you been hearing that? Yes, I have. Okay. So good. I just want to say, I'm so proud of Robbie because in our season eight storylines that he came up with, this was, I was very impressed. I really was. I was, oh, my God, he came up with some awesome storylines that would have been super cool and it just shows to show you this could be a career that you could segue to. You don't have to direct anymore. I'm heading to retirement. No, thanks. All right, fine. But I like the collaboration. That's why I asked the question because as a actor and then as a director,

Starting point is 00:41:05 there's so much collaboration in both of those jobs. Whereas writing for me was always a struggle even before, you know, years ago because it was so independent for me. And I just found that to be tough, to motivate myself to, I like bouncing ideas. I like working with actors as a director and having their best ideas, you know, on the day and, oh, how can we, how can we make that work? And how can I put that in my plan and, you know, yeah. Yeah. I have one last question for you before we let you go. What was your role in your family growing up?

Starting point is 00:41:42 How would you describe your role? There you go. Well, I was an only child. Uh-huh. And so I was kind of like a little adult. You know, I would always be, you know, sitting in the dining room with, you know, the, you know, the adults, my parents had friends over, you know, I would go and hang out with them. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:02 So I was, you know, one of those internally 40-year-old kids. You were mature beyond your years. So if you were at a, like, a family, you know, holiday function or something, and there were a lot of other kids there, you would tend to gravitate towards the adult table and not the kids too. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:20 Yeah, I asked that because I just wonder, how do you think that translated your role your family translated into your role as a writer like well i think being an only child really had more to do with it because i you know had to entertain myself yeah you had to create your own worlds so i would read a lot yeah um you know watch tv and watch movies and then even when i would hang out with my friends we would make up stories together right um you know we write plays together and yeah wrote a version of little women if i recall no wow performed it for our enchanted family of course yes oh Oh, yes. It was the greatest play ever written. Yes.

Starting point is 00:43:00 So, yeah, I think basically being on my own and kind of living in my own head, you know, led me more toward writing. I wonder if they did a survey on that, writers that were only children and raised as without any siblings. Is that the, you know, the fact that pushed them into writing? Who knows? Wouldn't surprise me. Yeah, wouldn't surprise me either. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us today. No, sure. Yeah, on the DILT flyers. And for all of you, Patreon, patrons, please stay tuned.

Starting point is 00:43:30 We still have more Lisa Klink with us. We're going to answer some more questions with her. So stay tuned, Patreon, patrons. For rest of you, we will see you next week. Thank you.

The Delta Flyers - Lisa Klink

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.