The Delta Flyers - Looking for par'Mach in All the Wrong Places...

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Looking for par’Mach in All the Wrong Places…, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Armin Shimerman, and Terry Farrell.Looking for par’Mach in All the Wrong Places…: Worf shows a smitten Quark the ways of Klingon courtship when Quark wants to rekindle a romance with his ex-wife Grilka.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Jenny Cordina, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Chris Garis, Sean T, Cindy Woodford, & Tamara Evans. Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, & Jeff AllenAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Sab Ewell, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Kelly Brown, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Sarah, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Brian Heckathorne, Kilian Trapp, Katherine M. Prioli, Nelson Silveira, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Durrell Bishop, & Andrew Golden.Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.comSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armin Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, Garrett Wong and myself, Terry Farrell. For the complete and exciting and epic and stupendous version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. It's so rare that all four of us are together.

It's so nice to see this. It is. It is really wonderful. And by the way, you just mentioned Patreon. Yes. We just did an interview with Jonathan West. Terry, you weren't able to make that. I know. I was at the bet.

I know. You had to deal with dogs. important dog stuff we're dealing with right now ourselves but back to jonathan what an incredible interview if you guys aren't patrons you should check out some of this bonus material it was an incredible nearly two and a half hour interview with jonathan and he said to us he had never been asked never been asked to do an interview right that's his first interview request can you believe that he's a honey bear he is a honey bear such a lovely human being and has a lot of great experience and knowledge about Star Trek.

It was a great... Armand, do you agree? I agree. I think anyone who's been watching all of us talk for now a number of years will be very interested in what Jonathan has to say because he sees it from a different point of view than we do. He really does. And some of his insights and recollections and anecdotes

are fresh to me. I hadn't ever heard them. And I've heard a lot of stories. So, yes, if you can see it, please do. you'll really appreciate that I don't think it'll be two hours, but the two hours of Jonathan talking about doing the show and about his career, which is really quite phenomenal, really we could have had him on for another two hours. I mean, his career pre-trecht is already amazing if you think about that. We got some birthdays, don't we? We do have birthdays. First of all,

we have Doral Bishop. Doral Bishop on December 15th, which happens to be my birthday as well. Happy birthday, my birthday, double-ganger. Happy birthday, Dorell. Happy birthday, double-ganger. Dural, happy birthday. December 15th. You and Garrett are going to have a big party. I can't wait to come. I'm coming to your house.

I'm coming to your house. We also have Randy Hawk on December 19th. Happy birthday, Randy. Happy birthday, Randy. Randy, happy, happy, happy, happy birthday. Randy, happy birthday. December 19th, fellow Sagittarian. And we have Catherine M. Prioli, December 21st.

Oh, that's winter solstice. Happy birthday. Catherine. That's amazing. My niece Brittany's birthday is on the 21st, too. Yay. Happy birthday, Catherine. Happy birthday, Catherine. Have a great birthday celebration. Happy birthday, Catherine. All right. And we also have on December 22nd, Izzy Jaffer, happy birthday, Izzy. Happy birthday, Izzy. Izzy, have a very happy birthday. Happy birthday, Izzy. David Way, Leal, it is your birthday. December 23rd. Happy birthday, David. Happy birthday, David.

many happy returns. Have a great birthday, David. Happy birthday. I have a little poetry, a little art and culture, shall we say, for this episode. Here we go. Very excited. Here we go with my Limerick cultured poem for this episode. Wharf sees Grilke and thinks his feelings are true.

His cursed house left his honor torn in two. So he helps Quark to fight, a story Sirono could write, till feelings he's buried finally break through. Very good, but it's, if I may, because I am who I am, a story that Rostin could write. True, that is true. And in America, it's Sirono de Bergerac. In England, it's Serrano de Bergerac.

Serrano. Oh, thank you. Interesting. It's a very Sirono story, though, it feels. Yes, it's a very Sirono. That storyline, I loved it. My poem, Acquisitions, mergers, love. Mere acquisition, I protest. Lust and passion, be my guest. Roll play, blurred lines, finds clarity, friendship binds. Hidden desire shakes her foundation and gives way to love's liberation. That's lovely. Lovely. Beautiful. Thank you. I love your

poems yeah thank you yours feel like poetry mine just feel like no it's a limerick it's different yeah it's a limerick it's it's a different no but that's nice because you do a limerick I do a poem and then we have mr. haiku and then we have our expert in language arm and shimmerman yes we have the whole package we've got the dream team okay do don't this anybody's special here be my haiku here's my haiku Here's my haiku. Quark pursues Grilke. Chief and Kira get awkward. Dax and Wharf hook up. They do. Yeah. How you said awkward. Just kill me. And we can all sign off now because that's the entire episode. That is the whole episode. We're done. And you got it all. Herman, give us some etymology. I don't have any etymology for this because the words are rather simple and Parmach is

not a word that I can look up. Yes. So I have something else. I don't have a poem. I wish I did, but I don't. What I do have is this. So the name of the episode is indeed looking for Parmach in all the wrong places, which is probably ripped off from the song title Looking for Love in All the Wrong

Places, which was written by Wanda Mallet, Bob Morrison, and Patty Ryan, is recorded by American country singer Johnny Lee. Paul McCartney said, this way. was the best song ever written. It was featured in the 1980 movie Urban Cowboy. Wanda Millett, one of the writers, was a second grade teacher who was inspired by her students to co-write this song with Patty Ryan. Bob Morrison helped to publish the song after the demo was completed.

So it's not etymology, but it is background. I love that background. Thank you. That was fascinating. Because this is referencing that country Western song. Yes. It's the perfect thing to do, Aram. And it's so interesting that it was a second grade teacher, like not a professional. Wow.

Amazing. Writer. This episode was written by Ronald D. Moore, directed by Andrew Robinson. And this is what's crazy. I thought that he had already directed an episode for some weird reason. I did not realize that this was his first one. First ever of any. television episode episodic direction.

Really? Well, he talked to us about that in his interview that we did. We talked to him. We did an interview with Andy, and he talked about how he had directed theater. Oh, he directed me in theater. He directed Kitty and I both. What did you do with him? A wonderful Pinter play called The Birthday Party.

Thank you, Andy, because I won an award in Los Angeles for the performance. Congratulations, Armin. Thank you. But it was, it's a combination of me. and what Andy gave me as a director. I think I read somewhere that Andy was awarded. He also got an award, right, Robbie? He talked about it on our interview.

Again, if you're a patron, you can hear these interviews. They're still there. They're all there. But he talked about in the interview that when he won an award for the birthday party, I think he won a director award, a drama log award or something. And he showed that to, he had talked to Rick Berman about directing. And it was that production. I think maybe Rick saw it or.

read about it. And that was a big part of Andy getting an opportunity to direct DS9, which is massive because he's not a series regular as well, if you think of it that way. So it's pretty amazing for him. And though, Andy Robinson's character, Garrick, felt like a regular character. Yeah. He sure did. Yes. He sure did. It, you know, it's just like not having Sir Rock in this episode to not have Andy in this episode. Do you know what I mean? It's, but it's still, feel i mean there's episodes where all of us are light if i watch the show and you know was the first time i would consider him a regular character because he's just part of the promenade he's part of the station he's part of that whole lore of what's going on in our community that's what your your show did really well

was create a sense of community that all of these recurring characters did feel important it's because as we boldly stayed in one place. We didn't move around. Yeah, there's that. And so the people that lived on the station that were important to the station and to the stories had more opportunity to recur over and over again. And the writers became very interested in those characters

and began to develop them as if they were series regulars. Yeah. Very smart move on their part. Yeah. Guest stars, Rosalyn Chow as Keiko O'Brien, Mary Kay Adams as Grilka. Yay. Yay.

Joseph Ruskin as Tumek. Yay. Phil Morris. Phil Morris as the Klingon GQ model, Thopok. Yeah, he was terribly good looking for him. Oh, my gosh. You know, typically when you throw an actor into Klingon makeup, it just changes everything. But with Phil Morris in there, he was a good-looking Klingon.

I've just the best-looking Klingon I've ever seen, I would have to say. And I will say the obvious. Everyone knows this probably that Phil is Greg Morris's. son, Greg Moore's from Mission Impossible. No. Yeah, and Greg and, well, all of them. And Joe, Joe is one of my mentors. Joe is one of the people that formed my ethos about life, about living.

Joe is, Joe Ruskin is, he's passed away now, was indeed a great, great, great man. And of course, Mary Kay Adams, I'm in love with Mary Kay Adams. So they're all friends of mine. So working that episode was just a joy. Oh, I bet. She's gorgeous. I wish they would have got her just a tiny bit smaller forehead. Let's talk about Phil Morris for a second, even though I already wax poetic about his good looks underneath that cling on makeup.

Yeah. Robbie and I had the chance to interview. We've had Phil Morris on this show. He was on the original series in one of the episodes as a kid with his sister. The original Star Trek series. Excuse me, the original Star Trek series. And he was telling us some of the behind the scenes there. And it was awesome, eye-opening.

And again, another interview that we have on Patreon. So check it out. It's all they're in the library. All they're in the library. You will be amazed. Okay. And Phil and I had the great pleasure of doing a Seinfeld episode together. Oh, you do.

Yes. Okay. Trivia. The idea of doing an episode of DS9 based on Sirano di Berrach was Michael Dorn's, evidently. Really? Which is very, very cool. Wow. I didn't know that.

Wow. This episode has. the longest title of any DS9 episode. It's a long title. It's a very long title, my goodness. And Sorok-Loften does not appear in this episode. Avery barely makes it as well. Oh, I know.

It's true. And same with Renee. It was a very quick Was it just that one scene with Avery when he comes in and says, is it contagious? And when you talk about Parmach, right, you say that to Wharf. And that's it. He's gone. Okay. Oh, he literally had

the smallest part in that episode. He did. Well, then Renee, because he has that short scene. Just the one scene with Kira. Yeah. Well, jumping in, we're in the corridor. Bashir's walking down the corridor. I will point out that if you look behind Bashir down the corridor as it curves,

there's a little dark break and then the rest of the corridor. That's because it's a photo backing. That's not a real long corridor that goes off. It's like what they do in the Jeffrey's tubes or some of those sets. They put a photo backing to make it look like it goes much further. Was it that obvious? Did it stick out that? Okay.

Because you could see the break in the darkness, how the floor sort of ended in darkness and then got light again. And that's where the photo back one. Is that the telltale sign if it gets a little dark and then light again? Usually it's the floor. The ground will give away set extensions or green screen extensions. I want you to look at something else as well. When people go back and watch this episode.

Because Andy is indeed a great theater director, it's this episode in my mind is directed by someone who is a theater director and not a TV director not putting Andy down it's just a different point of view most of the of shots are two shots compared to other episodes there are a lot less close-ups in this episode than there are on others Andy as a theater director wants to see the whole scene and so if it's a two-character scene he has both characters in the frame and that happens a great deal in this episode. So you see in real time the reactions rather than piecing them together.

It's a theater director's point of view. I want to see the whole friend. I want to see the stage. Yeah. And yes, there are close-ups, absolutely, but not as many. Awesome. What's interesting you bring that up, I experienced when I was watching your play just recently, Armin, that I was aware that I was choosing what I was watching.

As the audience, you can choose, oh, I want to watch kids. and just she's reacting, but I'm watching her work. And then, you know, it's a wonderful thing about theater, just to remind everyone, like, go to the theater. You get to pick your own edit. You're not spoon-fed, the close-ups. You get to choose to watch and what character you want to follow. And it's fun to go more than once because you're never going to see the same performance twice. Correct.

Yeah. Correct. Support the theater. Please do. Well, Bashir's walking down this corner with the photobacking, and he hears him. Some arguing or something. We can't tell who it is really, but he stops. He's trying to eavesdrop a little.

Quark pops out. A little. Good point, Terry. Have we established him as a busy body before? Does he even... He is Mrs. Cravett. He is. In this episode, yeah, Nosey Parker.

Oh, my gosh. Nozy Parker. He tries to eavesdrop. Quark catches him. Bashir asked Quark, can you hear what they're saying? I like Quark's response. He says, how could I know? not. And then Quark stands there with the prosthetic ears and can hear every word. Quark says she's angry and he's

trying to run her life basically. And then Keiko appears. And we realize it's not Keiko and Miles arguing. Quirk says it's the other O'Brien's Kira and Miles. Great line. I loved when Quirk said this. I loved it so much. When Bashir first asked Quark, what are they saying? Quark says, let's use a little discretion, shall we? Which is like, what? Now he wants to use. It made me laugh out loud. It made me laugh out loud.

It was in it. Harmon, you're just always spot on. I love watching your work. Thank you. Thank you. Well, they're arguing about her spring ball racket. And we can tell in this scene that she wants to just act like normal. And Miles is trying to control her and make sure this pregnancy.

goes smoothly, so he doesn't want to playing spring ball. But now that Keiko's there, Cork says the show is over, and they're going to get into their feelings and have their share our feelings talk, Cork says. So, show's over. Show is over. Bashir's a little disappointed. Oh, well, I mean, good, he says.

Very cute scene. We go to the Repliment next. We see Daxon Warf discussing opera, Klingon Opera. I will give my two cents about Klingon opera. I don't like Klingon music. I never do. Whenever they play it or sing it, I find it very unpleasant. But I think that's the point.

Do you like opera, regular opera? I can appreciate it. I wouldn't say that I like it a lot. When I was in high school, a local theater director asked me to be the lighting designer for the opera company in Atlanta. And I got to be the lighting designer when I was in high school for an opera production and really appreciated it. Can I just say one thing on the prior, prior scene that we moved on from the corridor scene,

I just want to say with the superior hearing capabilities of Ferengi, I feel like every alien secretive organization, like the Obsidian Order, has one Ferengi in their division. Every unit has to have a Ferengi. Is there a secret hearing weapon? They can hear things that no one else can. You know, Garrett, that was something over the course of the show, I had hoped that they would take advantage of. And they rarely did. It isn't often mentioned, but on occasion it is. We can hear everything that's going on in a room and no matter, you know, even very far away. Even though Armand couldn't.

I'd just right. But other parades could. Or can, Armand can't. We got that. Exactly. But I always thought that was a, you know, superpower that they could have taken advantage of. A missed opportunity. And they never really didn't.

Can I say one thing about opera? When Max was like eight, we found a program at the Philadelphia Opera House, and we started going on Sundays, and I would read the libretto to Max, and we did this for years, years. And oh, my God, I loved it so much. Did Max enjoy it? Oh, yes. Oh, he'd dress up. It was really an amazing experience, and not something.

I got to see one opera as a kid, as a kid, as a. a school kid, you know, it was like something you signed up to go see. Set design were remarkably modern or just very interesting how they got creative. And every year, there was one in English. And it was like, oh, it just wasn't the same. It needs to be in, you know, Italian or German. Yeah, it just sounds so simple in English. And it sounds so much more beautiful. And I don't know if people feel that way when they're not, when it's just not your native language, does it sound better? I speak several, or try to anyway, I try to speak several romantic languages, which I can command every now.

You do? Yeah. You're amazing. Thank you. Italian is the most beautiful sounding language I ever experienced. It's a beautifully, just the sound of it is just terrific. French is a little bit more staccato and German is actually rather an ugly language. but forgive me for all you Germans out there.

But Italian is mollifless. Yes. Ooh, nice word. Yes, melifilus. Terry called Armin amazing. I'm going to call Armin glorious, which is more on point for this episode. A love letter to you today.

We just love you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. I want to do more of these with Terry. I get the glorious. All right, so they're in the replemate and we basically learn Wharf is very traditional

and Dax is kind of surprised because he was raised so non-traditionally. But he's clinging to his old ways of traditional opera and we start to see that Dax has some subtexts going on. She likes a man with contradictions. She's very good at that. Terry, from the very beginning,

it's wonderful stuff that you're doing there, Terry, because you're saying one thing and yet we can see in your eyes where your mind is at. Thank you. That's acting. Worf looks over, he sees a Klingon woman come out with two Klingon Garvey. with her. A beautiful Klingon woman says that she is glorious.

Worf is just blown away. And Dax follows as well, which is a nice little runner coming up. She is not really happy about him just popping away, but she follows. And they head out to the promenade. Worf spying on her. Dax pops in. I like that theatrical staging with Dax popping in. It's super cute. And then not realizing she doesn't have the right view and pops around to the other side. I'm sure that was Andy. Oh, my God, but it was so natural. More Armin love here. Armand, you've done that recently, some episodes where you pop in, you pop into the scene,

you say something, and then you drop down out of frame. He's done it twice recently. Was that at the bar? It was when you had put the commercials, the Quarks commercials on the Repliment. Corks is fun. Corks is great. Yeah, that whole little. That thing.

Oh, my. The Quarks. Yeah. Yeah. And Kira's very, she threatens you. What else is name? It was so good. This jump around Wharf to get a view was also in the same school.

Well, you're watching Grilka, you move closer, and we see that Grilke heads over to Quark. It looks like they might fight for a moment, and instead they hug very affectionately. And then Dax remembers, oh, that's Quark's ex-wife. I was extraordinarily happy to see Mary Kay Adams on the set. We had had a wonderful time in the previous episode. She is just an incredibly nice and wonderful person, a very good actress as well. She's quite extraordinary in this episode. The hug is genuine.

Yeah, that's actually an Arm and Mary Kay enthusiastic hug more so than Groka and Quark, which is one. That's okay. No, we definitely felt it. It was like, man, it worked. They were, they were, they're buds. Oh, no, it was an add-on, not a diss. It was an ad on. Okay.

Well, Dax remembers that after this hug, oh, that's Quark's X, Y. That's right. And then Worf grumbles. He is not happy about that. Look on his face. It's great. Yeah. Inside Quarks, Quark gives her a drink.

The cork teases a little about Worf's prune juice. You bring up his prune juice here. She tastes your cocktail, says it's delicious. And then she shares the war. This Clingon Federation War has cost her house a lot of money. And he offers to look at her books and help. And she agrees. She's very grateful about that.

about that. Thopak pops in here. But we play the game, which I thought was very good writing. It's a game. This is what she's come for, but she's not going to say it. I know that that's what she's come for, but I can't embarrass her in front of the other two Klingons. Correct. So if this is what you want, I know you're here on a social visit, he says, but if you want me to take a look at it, I will. And this way we get around any onus from Phil's character, not that Joe would have any problem, but but Phil's character.

Phelpok. What is it? Thopok. It was really respectful. It was great. You treated her, well, if she weren't a cling on, I would say, and she was a human, I would say you treated her like a lady. Oh, yeah. Quark is very respectful and interested.

You can tell all the subtext. And you can tell that the two of you have an understanding or a chemistry, or you can communicate with subtext with each other. It's good writing. Thopok does walk up to talk. Tell a quark at the very end, and he says, help Groka and you live, fail, and I will kill you myself, which made me think, if we were meeting with the CPA about our taxes and if they didn't do it right, we killed. I mean, just to be just very funny to me that that's the way

the Klingons work. Yeah. Well, unlike your CPA analogy, there is, forgive me, there is racist tension here. Oh. The fact that here's a Klingon who doesn't like Ferengi. Yeah. Okay. And that is all through the episode. As I'm watching it, I see the prejudice from several people. But certainly this is one of the things that I think motivates Thopach at this moment. One of the things I think that was missed in this episode is that we are in a war with the Klingons right now. Yes. And they're walking around.

Nobody's paying any attention to that. That there are Klingons on the station. There shouldn't be. There's a war going on. Yeah, they made mention of that, though. Dax said something in the beginning about that, right? Yeah, yeah, she does. Things must be better with the negotiations.

There's a truth. Yes. There's a bit of a ceasefire and some negotiations going on. So, Armand, are you thinking when they come on the station, people should be kind of giving them a bit of a double take because they are the enemy, you know, we're in the most, we have most tension with the Klingons at this point in this series, right? There should be some acknowledgement of that is what you're saying.

Perhaps in the missing scene is that perhaps they should have been met. by Odo or someone to make sure that there's no problem. Yeah. Good idea. Thopach threatens Quark there at the end and we go up to Ops. Dax and Worf are coming up the lift. Dax is telling Worf all about Quark's marriage. I did notice in this scene when you guys landed, Terry,

that the over the shoulder your arms were down and on your coverage your arms were up. And maybe because I'm a director, those little continuity errors to me. I just, I forget what's happening. I stop listening. It pulls you out. It does pull me out.

It pulls me out and shows too. Yeah. Yeah. Usually the script supervisor is the one that points that out. And then the script supervisor will say, oh, we've already shot this side and your arms were crossed or we've already shot your arms were down. Yes. Because that took me out a little bit from listening.

And just for people watching, you know, that maybe you've experienced that. as well. Like you notice those things and it just takes you out a little bit. Back to the scene. We learned that Quark bragged that he killed Grilka's ex-husband, even though it was really an accident. He sort of took credit for that. And since she couldn't lead her house, she quickly married Quark and kept control of her house through him because she couldn't run it at the time by herself. But eventually she convinced the counsel to give her real control and then divorced Quark on the spot. Worf hears all this backstory and says quirk is just not worthy of Grilka.

He's quibbling about my honor when the reason he can't have Grilke is that he's dishonorable. His house is dishonorable. So it's a little like that pot calling the kettle black. Yes. Exactly. And he's about to jump into the frying pan. Yeah. Dex's explanation is pretty much just a synopsis of the prior episode that we saw.

We got to see everything, you know, in detail. So that's interesting that they would repeat all that stuff because the fans are know that in a way right well not all the fans not all the fans it is syndication after all yeah they could jump these episodes air them in different order things like that by the way that episode is called house of quark yes it's it is that's important yes it is well dax mentions here that uh wharf has parmach again showing dax knows all about the clingons like she's a honorary clangon basically but she mentions this parmach and that's when cisco arrives with a baseball and he asked, is Parmock contagious? And she says, no, it's just love. That's what it means, with

aggressive overtones. I liked that detail. So I have a question for Terry and Robbie on this. It was interesting to me, Avery tosses the ball. There's a cut. Terry catches the ball. Why? Why didn't we watch the ball arc over to? I know Terry can catch the ball, so that can't be the problem. Why would you cut in the middle of that? Why would you cut from one to the other? Well, a technical reason is that you would have to light one direction and then turn and light the opposite. So you'd have to light two sides at once, which might have been more difficult. And we talked to Jonathan West about that yesterday, about, you know, lighting, if we're just lighting one direction, it's much faster than if you have to pan all the way to the other side.

And could not that have been shot as a two or a two shot or a three shot? Sure. You might have had to be pretty far away to get the whole thing, too, which might have looked funny to jump from the two shot of me and Wharf to... All the way over, yeah. To a wide shot of us and ops. I don't know. That's my guess. I think that your point, though, their armament is a good one, is that sometimes when you've got action happening between one side of the set and the other, it's better to be wide and see the whole action.

it's a little more awkward to cut that ball midair it can lead to kind of a mistimed feeling even if we can't put our finger on why it feels manipulated i felt that was a strange cut right there um yeah but and and i didn't think the ball was tossed that far you know it didn't look like it it looked like it was no more than a foot apart the two actors were maybe a foot yeah it also couldn't it have been like over avery's shoulder tossing it to to me or over me and Wharf, Avery tossing it. Yeah. Yeah, it seemed like a strange cut to cut in the middle of the ball action.

It didn't feel quite timed correctly or something. Yeah. Maybe they had to cut it that way because it didn't really work the other way they shot it. Maybe what we're talking about ended up on the editing floor. Could be. Yeah. Well, Dax explains Parmach is a cling on word for love with aggressive overtones. Sisko's surprised that Worf is feeling love.

He thinks that's odd. Dax says, well, stranger things have happened. And Dax stands up for Quark in this scene. Worf thinks it's a marriage of inconvenience is what he says. And she says, well, it may not have been a marriage of convenience. It may not have been that convenient for Quark. And thank you for standing up for him. I'm grateful they gave me those words because I would, yes.

In the infirmary, Bashir is giving Miles a mask to help Kira sneezing. I like when Column tried the mask. He gave it a try, sneezed. Bashir offers to play, you know, invites Miles to play World War II, basically, on the holodeck again, their usual game. And Miles says, no, he can't. He's got to deal with Kira stuff and the pregnancy. Bashir lets it slip.

He knows that they're fighting, he and Kira. And Miles says, oh, you know about that? I like Bashir going, well, it's a small station. And Miles is like, no, it's actually a really big station. He's very suspicious. I totally laughed. Of course, it's huge. Yeah, it's a huge station.

Bashir gives him some herbs for swollen ankles. So we see that he's a bit of a hypochondriac that Miles has all these concerns. Swollen ankles, the sneezes. And Miles even knows that the herbs last time didn't agree with her. And Bashir's like, wow, you know everything. And then Miles lets it slip. Well, I was helping her out of the tub, which is like, a little intimate for friends.

Bashir's very surprised that they're that familiar. Miles says they're very mature adults. They're just trying to have a baby together. We're just being mature adults. That's all. Bashir us, did you look? Blurred lines. Blurry, blurry. Bashir is like an eighth grade boy right now.

What does he say? You, I bet you looked. But Bashir is in reality married to the pregnant woman. I know. So I enjoyed it a great deal because, You know, I know what the subject says. Yeah. Did you look, you know, is coming maybe from Bashir, maybe.

Maybe it's coming from Siddick. Who knows? Same with the eavesdropping. It all sounds a little kind of parallel to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, I like it, Bashir at the end. He goes, you probably looked. Yeah. It's a very cute. Yeah. He also asked for a cream for her rash, too, didn't he? Yeah. Yes.

Yes. Behind her. thigh it was like how would you see that yes yeah we we get from this scene that miles o'brien is intimately involved with kira and unaware that any of this could be inappropriate he's just completely unaware we go to quarks next oh my god what a scene this scene made me laugh so much so obviously we're in quirks wharf comes in decides he's going to make this huge huge Klingon spectacle in order to get, yeah, to get the interest of Grilka. So the first thing he does, he walks up to mourn, who we love, we love mourn, and literally

says, you're sitting in my seat and just throws him. Like, WWE wrestling style thrown through the air. Mark Allen Shepard. Was that Mark or someone else, do you think? I don't know. Tell, it was hard. I'm going to go out on a limb and say, I don't think it was. Mark because she was licking of the glass and all that business. I've never seen Mark be that

animated. Ah, so that was a stunt double then. Yeah. It was like maybe a bit with a glass and but what if Andy gave him that as business to do? That's also very much like a theater actor to a director to give you business. I love that. It's so great. They would have had to found a stunt double that was exactly Mark Ellen Shepard's dimensions because I'm sure they don't have four or five morn suits sitting there, right? So it's got to be, maybe not. It's hilarious, of course, but what's missing is, is Mark hitting the floor? Yeah, exactly.

We should have had a sound of, oh, thud, something. Well, at least the sound, yeah, even if we didn't see him, we should have heard him. No. Yeah. If it is, Mark, they didn't even want to give him that. No. I know, right. Armand, that's so funny.

Not even an impact sound. Exactly. It became cartoonish to me because I didn't hear a reality, a real sound of falling. It was just cartoonish to me. And that's so funny, Armand, they didn't even give him that. That made me laugh. Oh, my gosh. So Worf is trying to make this huge ovation towards Groka.

He talks about, what is that smell? Is there a pile of rotting foreshack, which is clearly some type of Klingon something? But it does kind of get their attention. He turns around and he challenges Thopak. He tells him you should stand while I'm talking to you. The whole thing starts to escalate and it is actually Tumek who sort of brings everything down. He says, come here, Wharf, son of Moog, come join me. And they have their little private conversation off to the side.

Oh, poor Worf. The dignity of Joe Ruskin. Yes. Saying, come talk to me. That is Joe Ruskin. one of the most dignified people that I ever knew. This is why they hired him. It's a small thing, but for me, very touching, very touching.

To see my old friend act as he normally did, an incredibly noble person. Well, what's so great about his, you know, the way he plays Klingon, Armin, to me, is that he doesn't lean into the caricature of it. You see what I'm saying? There's no, with him when he speaks, it's nice. Joe's acting, if you watch the many things that he's done, is always a lesson in less. He does less and gets away with it. Less is more for Joe, and he works perfectly for him.

And he allows his voice, which is just resonant, to just be what it should be. Michael and Sarah was that way, too. Was it? There's a depth, too. That's what I think it is. The soulful depth is coming through. Yeah. So he pulls Wharf aside and has this conversation about, you know, Worf saying that he didn't mean to disrespect anyone. And Tumach's like, no, you, you didn't

show any of that. But I don't think you guys would have been a good match. And Worf's like, what? Two Mex's like, well, have you ever pursued a Klingon woman? And Worf says no, which is not entirely true because I think the mother of his child is half Klingon from TNG. So that's not true. Yeah. Susie Plaqueson, right? Paxton. Suzy Plaxton. I just love the fact that Tumok pulls him aside. explains to him the whole situation and at the end raises his voice and he says it is the wish of lady grokha that you have that you leave us now son of mogen do not return so he goes back it's all formality of it all it's all about his that wharf's house has been shamed yes and so he's

never going to get a chance ever no no yeah and she'll never mate with him your house is shamed and you know nothing about our clinging culture and our women you've been raised by humans it'll never happen. But he said it in such a stoic way that it wasn't like a slap in the face. It was a gentleman's offer to save his dignity and just move on so that Worf could save, you know, face.

I agree with you 100% Terry and I think there was a slight problem with that, not with the performance, but if you can imagine any other Klingon saying it, you can imagine the fierceness of that being. Vitriol. Yes, that kind of. kind of performance. Joe does not work that way, so he didn't. The dictum at the end that

she, you know, Lady Crickle, Gilke doesn't want to see you anymore. I think that would have not seemed so different than everything else if indeed he had done it the other way. I'm agreeing with Joe that he had, that he did right. But I can almost hear the writer saying, why didn't he do it this way? It's because they, the way the clingons. Yeah, the way other clingons would do it. I'm sure Andy's explaining because it was just a better performance this way. But it does seem a little out of left field that last part as though something happened and he changed his tone of voice. I mean, I was surprised that it wasn't traditionally cling on the way he was sharing it. Yeah, he was very respectful. He says to Wharf, there's no shame that you haven't

dated. But I liked it because I wouldn't have liked Warf to feel, I mean, he's already putting himself on a limb that he's just gaga over her it just made me feel better that it was the way it was yes yes absolutely to your point arman i think that often there's missed opportunities in playing klingons grounded and simple that this kind of bombastic um you know over the top combatant yeah it's almost like the lady doth protest too much it's almost like they're not as as they really are. So they have to pretend to be strong. What I love about Joe is he was strong in a very simple way.

It was not bombastic. It was a nice color that we don't often see from Clingons. I'd love to see that more. Deeply grounded. Yeah. This is the unicorn of Clingon scenes. It's so rare to see a de-escalation of tension amongst Clingons. And it's completely here in this scene.

Yeah, the calm confidence is so powerful. And you feel that with Joe's performance here. We go to the mess hall next, and the mess hall's on the defiant, not the repliment, the mess hall. I liked how they showed the defiant docked on the outside right before we cut to it. It was, I just thought that was cool. I like it when they have those exteriors. Well, Worf is living on the defiant, so that's why we're there. We're in the mess hall.

And Worf says he feels like a fool. Dax wonders if he's more ashamed that he doesn't know about Klingon women. And then Quark arrives and wants some. Dax's advice, and he thinks that he and Grilka have something really special. And Dax's advice is, just take it slow. There's classic Klingon rituals, and they take time. And Dax mentions in here, she thinks it's just for sex. And how often is that word used in Star Trek? Very, very. Wow. Wow. Yeah. To be that direct about it. Yeah. Can I just bring light to Armand's entry into the scene? No. No. Okay, thanks. Armand, you

You're entering the scene was great because of just the way Worf treats you. You know, he's like, what do you want to want to talk to Dax if that's all right with you? I just, your delivery of that. I was on the floor. I was like, thank you for standing up to him, number one. And thank you for the just timing of it all. It's great. It's not about you.

But for myself and from my character, I mean, how much abuse can you take after four years? That was exactly. Yeah, I don't blame you. Good job in the entry. Well, while Dax has given Quark some advice, Worf off by himself, he's angry that Quark's going to have dinner with Grilke. Well, it's not just, it's like a private dinner. And then he goes, a very private dinner.

And I'm like, yay. I'm excited about it for him. Wharf is not excited about this. I mean, Cork, I mean, Cork. Armin, you know as your character. I just called you, Quark, you know. You know that at this point that he is also in love with her. No, I don't think so.

You don't. I don't think you do. He doesn't know this. I don't think so. I thought when he said a very private dinner that he was purposely rubbing that in. No, no, not actually he's not at robbing in. And he's sharing with the only person that treats him like an equal. He's sharing with the fact that, you know, he might get lucky that night.

God. That's just what he's sharing. It's you and Dax. It's just me and Dax. Worf, who cares? I've already told him off. Got it. He's walked away.

Got it. Thank you. Worf jumps in to this advice while Dax is trying to give some advice. Take it slow. Just be yourself. Be respectful. Worf is like, wait a minute. He knows that she's from the Mechrovok region.

So Worf's like trying to, you know, think about clever ways to deal with this. Honestly, it kind of feels like Worf is remembering this out loud, not with the intention of helping quirk but sort of one of those things that you're like hey like I think he's still in his head trying to figure out it's sort of like what he would do

what he would do to court her I like that and if we had played that and I could have said I heard what you said but I just whispered it you know yes yes yes I like yeah he talks about her

family from the Mcrovac region there's this elaborate tradition about a fresh leg of linga has to be fresh and so quark hears this he says well what if that doesn't work and then jack says well doesn't work then her guards may shatter every bone in your body and i like your response at the end there armin well sounds reasonable right it's it's a way of telling the audience this isn't just about sex right it's a way they didn't give me much but that's one of the times where I could just say, no, I'm really interested in, and if it means that, then I'm happy to do that. And again, in a sense, plays into the Serenot de Bergerac plot

line. It does. And I'm, I'll brag a little in my youth. I played Serenau, so. Oh, my goodness. You would be a great Serenau. I'd love to see you do, Ciroen. I was. I bet you are. Oh, my goodness. Armin and Robbie, do you remember the one time when we were talking, Robbie and I were saying, Armand, have you ever played in a romantic role? Remember what you were talking about that? Oh, yeah, we did. And this is, and you said no, and I feel like this is kind of. You know, because Sirono never gets the girl.

And we were talking about kisses and stuff like that. Right. There's no kissing for Sirono in this, in Sirono. No, but at the end of this, you did get, a court did get Nookie at the end of this. You do get. Oh, yes, okay. So I lied. So I lied.

Not a traditional. romantic lead, but you get a romantic story. You did. I like that your character, that you and Grilk, or Quark and Grilka have history. So there's something kind of great about that. Because even though the situation wasn't romantic, you still took care of her honor by marrying her. I think there's something in that that is powerful for Grilka.

Thank you. Yeah. And for your character. I wish you had been on the writing team. I'm good at brainstorming. That I'm really good at. You know, one of the, one of the faults of our writing team was there were no women on the writing team. Yeah.

You didn't have any women, did you? No, Laura Baer probably had a lot of influence, Ira. But wasn't in the room. No, there should have been a woman in the room for sure. A hundred percent. How about a couple? A few, yes. Hey, what's up, y'all? Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. My favorite thing about the holidays?

Decking out my whole house. It's not a competition, but if it was, well, I'd win the season with Wayfair. Outdoor inflatable Santa? Got it on Wayfair. Trees, lights and ornaments? Wayfair. Hosting must-havs, like dining sets, beds, sheets, and towels? Wayfair. For everything in your style delivered with fast and free shipping, visit Wayfair.com or the Wayfair app to win the season. But again, it's not a competition. This scene made me feel so uncomfortable. Me too. Me too. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Made me feel very uncomfortable. Let's talk about this uncomfortable scene in Kira's room. Oh, my gosh. She was getting what begins as an ankle massage. What did that remind you guys of, that initial tableau of what you see? It's a prior episode. Antony and Cleopatra, I don't know. Our Man Bashir, when she is of Ivana, whatever her, yeah, she's laying on her.

Yeah, she's laying on. Exactly on that thing when the wall turns around, right? Well, she's getting an ankle massage from Miles O'Brien. Basically, as we've talked about, my notes here is just an awkward massage scene. Miles and Kira. Intimate. Yeah. Miles and Kira sort of lose themselves in it.

And Keko pops in a couple of times doing housework and is oblivious. That's my summary of the whole scene. Yeah. So this was uncomfortable for Terry and I, and as I'm watching that scene, I think it's uncomfortable for the two actors as well. Nana, who is a wonderful actress, I don't think she gave herself, and I don't blame her, she gave herself over to this either. She's acting that she's enjoying it, but I think she's not really, the actress isn't enjoying it. Yeah. Basically, as he gives her a massage, he moves upper leg a little further, he moves to her back.

They end up close to each other talking about Ireland and how they'd like to go to Ireland and Kira would like to go with him. And they suddenly both realized, oh, we're feeling romantic feelings and we shouldn't be. It's an awkward story to play. It is, yeah. This, my missing scene has to do with this. But also noting that she no longer calls him chief, she calls him Miles, which is a big tell. Do you think it would be less awkward if the scene began with her in her work uniform, but her pants rolled up that he's massaging her feet that way?

And so it's not a nightgown that maybe everyone would have been at ease at that point. Oh, okay, he's just, she's pregnant. But I think they're making it awkward purposefully, of course. Yeah, yeah. They're doing it on purpose. All right. But, yeah, I think that whatever her, maybe not her uniform, certainly a civilian outfit. Yes.

But not in a pajama. Not in a pink. Oh, it's a skimpy negligee almost. Yeah. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a short, silky nightgown kind of thing. It's in a very pregnant, with a very pregnant woman. Yeah. And someone who's not her significant other.

Yeah. I know when I was an actor. Sometimes I would get a scene or I'd get a director coming over with an adjustment and I didn't agree with it. I didn't agree with a scene or I had a director say, hey, this time try the blah, blah, blah. And I would just go, great, okay. And I would ignore it. I would ignore the note or I would see a scene and I would go, this is horrible. This is not good.

I didn't like the direction of the story or the things they have my character doing. And so I would, this is going to sound bad, but I would almost purposely tank it. I would almost choose to go, I'm not taking that note because I don't agree with it. I wouldn't have the argument. This seems like a scene, my point. I don't think the actors liked the scene. I don't think they like the story generally. Yeah.

And I felt a bit like whether it was conscious or unconscious, they were sort of not supporting, supportive of this story. didn't feel like they were committing to it, giving it any extra work. And I understand that. I've been there. And I've seen actors when I'm directing do that, if I will say, hey, let's try it. And they go, uh-huh.

And then we do another take, and they did not make it. I'm like, okay, I know what they're doing because I've been there. And I want to give kudos to Rajland Chow. Also, I thought that the way they felt caught when she comes in was too big because I didn't believe that Keiko wouldn't have recognized that awkwardness that her husband like hands off like that so something obviously transpired which I would have picked up on

I can't believe Keiko wouldn't have and I think unfortunately too for Keiko's character generally you saw them fighting bickering a lot of the times a lot of the times you didn't see them in a happy relationship so i think there was also a for me a uncomfortable feeling as an audience member that i was really happy for o'brien to be happy and relaxed and and they seemed in the scene like oh it's sweet but i felt kind of dirty and bad feeling that because it's kind of that up that way because their relationship had so much strife about her wanting to leave the station, about, you know, all of these things that made her life, Keiko's life, more difficult.

It just, it was a joy to see him in a happy relationship, but not the right one. Like, I wanted to see that between Keiko and O'Brien more often because they were the couple on the station. And it's too bad. Yeah, this whole B story to me just doesn't resonate well. Can I add it? Yeah. Feels bad.

Yeah. Can I add a little bit of trivia regarding the B story? Although the A story in this particular episode was a big hit with fans,

writer Ronald D. Moore is more proud of the B story involving O'Brien and Kira. According to Moore, quote, that was one of the most real storylines

we've ever done. They were flesh and blood people in a very believable situation, reacting believably. So, waving the flag

for Kako. I'm so sorry, but except for Keiko. I just don't believe that she'd be that oblivious. Supportive, yes, because her baby and O'Brien's baby are in Kira. I think Ron's right. It could have been a very interesting story if they'd given it more time and really addressed how complicated life can get and how the nuance of these things. But it was not executed in a nuanced way or a complicated way. It was dealt. like it was a simple B story, a two-dimensional B story, and it's much more complicated.

And they showed it was complicated between Kira and O'Brien when this tension gets created because of their situation. But again, that's my missing scene has to do with Kira and Kako because of this. I really think that if there were a scene where the two of them talked about boundaries or whatever, maybe, anyway, We'll get to that. Let's talk about that there. Yes. Yeah. Well, we go to the bridge of the Defiant. Klingon Opera is playing through the calm system and Wharf is singing and dancing along with it. This is why I don't love Klingon. Ow, ow, ow. It's just not my favorite music. Wasn't that bad for me, to be honest. Really? No, I loved it for Worf, but I don't care for that music either. I loved it for Warf's character for him to be lost and loving it. It was good for his character.

Am I the only person to think it sounded nice? I didn't think it sounded bad at all. My goodness. I want to go somewhere else. I did like it, but that's neither here nor there. What I think he's alone on the ship. Oftentimes, when we're hearing music, we get caught up in that, in memories that flood our brains about. We don't even know what the specifics are, but we know the music moves us. Yes. And sometimes when we're in a certain mood, certain types of music moves us more than another time.

Yes, of course. And so whatever the opera singer is singing seems to move Wharf because it's imitating what he's going through or what he's feeling. Okay. And that, I thought, was really quite good. Yeah, me too. I liked Michael in the scene. I don't love the music, but that doesn't.

Like that doesn't mean the war doesn't like it doesn't mean anything but I did very much enjoy watching Michael Doran's character wharf have this private moment that's right yeah I agree with that yeah that's a gift for his character yeah well quark arrives apologizes for interrupting like when he says I'm not going to ask you watch some of the singing and quarks like I'm not even going to ask anyway and you have to understand he's probably heard this singing before he came into the room because of his ears. Oh, sure. Yes, true.

Oh, yes. That's true. But Cork does share. He thanks him for the great advice. It did work. Quark fills him in on all the details of the date. And Wharf is just living vicariously through all of this. Very Serenow at this point.

Yes, very sure. That's right out of the play. And Cork says he's close. He needs Worf's help to kind of finish this. And Worf agrees in the end. I can help you. We have work to do. I understand why it happens in Sirono

because it's all set up in the play. But Worf doesn't like quark. So why does he... Why does he help him? There's something... There has to be a reason about why. And that's missing there. And isn't Michael's playing something...

Something should have happened to say, this is why I'm going to help him. Because we see throughout... earlier on in the episode, in earlier episodes, Worf does not like Quark. Why is he helping him? Yes, yes, he wants to get some vicarious thrill out of it. But to help someone he doesn't like,

that just doesn't make sense to me. No, there needed to be a quid pro quo. There needed to be something that Worf needed from you, that it can only get from you. Right. And thank Terry, that's brilliant. See, you should have been on the writing staff. That's what happens in the play, which works so well, is that, oh, what Sirono gets from

Chris John is, what was her response? How did she respond? So that every time Sirono helps Chris John, he always gets the playback so that he gets, he gets a secondary response. But that never happens in this episode. Except for this one time, never reports back to Wharf. Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. should have been a sequence of reports that then you could have built that chemistry and that

payoff for wharf of why he's doing this every time he suggests something he gets a report back for us too we feel more hungry to find out what's happening next not just for cork but for wharf they do have work to do we go to the hall of suites and in the hall of warriors the klingon hall of warriors cork and dax are basically playing calis and lucar fighting enemies while wharf sort of paces around and he's practical quark is practicing his fighting with some prompting he tries to speak cling on and and wharf is is coaching him but says you know you've got to have the feelings like you're saying the words but you've got to have the feelings and wharf recalls the story of calis and lecara their epic romance quark wants to

quit until dach says well the night ended with cray's sex And then Quark says, okay, one more time. He's back at it. So kind of a comedic, yeah, comedic button to the scene. Prior to doing this episode, and I knew that there was a lot of fighting with the bat lift for Quark. Dan Curry and I got together on several occasions. And he taught me how, and maybe he did for you too, Terry, but he taught me how to use

the batheith correctly the way he would use it. And Dan Curry was the person who invented the bat lift, who designed it. And I'm very grateful. for that. And I practiced for days around my pool with a bat lift that Dan gave you take one home. Yeah. He gave me one to practice with. Do you still have it? Oh, no, no, no.

Mostly what he taught me to do was to let the weight of the bat lift go where it wanted to go and just to follow. You were very smooth with it. A lot of the fighting is me. There's a stunt there's too. I could see our stunt people. Yeah. You could? Yeah.

I could tell when, first of all, my body looks different than her. and her hair is jet black. I think I started to pay more attention to it because, Robbie, you've mentioned it a few times in other episodes. Was that you or was that the stunt double? So I watched more carefully.

And it's just, it's tiny tells, but it's not huge. But once you are paying attention, you can see it. But you have to be paying attention. I definitely read about Armin doing all of this. extra practice with the batleth at home, but what was most interesting to me, and I want to ask

Carmen if this was correct. Shimmerman also worked with the mime artist to help him make it look as if the batleth had a mind of its own at the end. Remember every time the bat left would move from Wharf and Cork would allow that movement to sort of move in that. That was work with the mime artist? Is that incorrect or correct? I don't remember. Oh, I don't remember. As I'm watching the episode and seeing that, later in the future scene, I thought, how did I do that? Maybe it was indeed. How? Maybe it was indeed.

But I just don't remember. I remember working with the Batliff. There might have been a Miam artist there. I just don't remember. Well, it looked great. Whatever, however you prep for it, you clearly did a lot of rehearsals. We go to the security office next for Renee's residual scene. He's very frustrated with O'Brien

that Miles is falling behind on all his work and Kira's defending Miles in this scene. Mm-hmm. A little too defensive of Miles. Odo gets suspicious. Especially after flirty, flirty scene. Yes, massagey, massagey scene. Odo gets suspicious

suggests that she's growing maybe a little too close to Miles. She does call him Miles in the scene. She says, no, we're just like family now. But Odo does not buy it. That lies, right? Which part of his family are you?

Sister, daughter, cousin? He didn't even go to lover, but he just stopped that cousin, which is great. He's going on joking about Miles and ribbing Kira about what seems to be an affection for Miles. Let us remember, and we've already seen this in prior episodes, Odo has a thing. for Kira as well. Yes. Oh, yeah. This should have hurt him a little. There's another man in your life besides. I would have wanted to see that. So that's something I felt when I was watching the scene. To your point, I felt like that he was hurt with the further investigation, which part, which part of your family? Like, that was his way of dealing with his hurt. But it was anger. Anger, yes, is what it

was that he I don't know i just i we all know how much i loved ren yeah i just thought it was rene playing the clown which he's very good at uh okay and i just thought he was playing the clown in that scene okay i get you well we move on to quarks we have uh thopac and tumac there waiting for grilka thopac is really outraged about quark it's not just quark it's any Ferengi. Yeah. The Ferengi, yeah, he does say a farangy. He's disgusted.

Mm-hmm. He's not just jealous. He's racist. Because I can feel that too. Yeah. And Tumac kind of defends you a bit, though, in that moment. Joe's an old friend. Yeah.

Yeah, he says, you know, calm down. Mind your place. Your lady's guard, nothing else. Don't judge her. He defends you. He defends Grilka for whatever, you know. Yes, he should. He should defend Gilch.

Exactly. yeah well they come down the stairs laughing grilka and quark great laughter by the way great yes sweet well it's real they love you too i don't know it's their real laughter yes wonderful yeah yeah wonderful yes they come down quark admits that he wants to acquire grilca in this moment very farangy like yeah she's turned off by that right but then he pulls it back again though he was like wait wait wait wait i'm just saying you're the most valuable thing in this entire sector, essentially. I find you. You know, I'm a great, great, I'm able to assess value better than anyone else, and you're worth more than all the latinum in this. In the galaxy.

In the galaxy. Gospons. It's so romantic. Very romantic. Again, I'm sorry for my constant allusions to my agenda, but I wanted to do something that made him more than just a one-dimensional for ranking. Well, you did. Yes. Yes. Well, you did. Well, I've never thought of your character as a one-dimensional character.

I think you've proven that episode over episode over episode. Thank you. Seriously. It was always, it was on my agenda, always. You know, I really like Mary Kaye, and I had affection for her, not love affection, but affectionate's friendship.

And I wanted to do something really wonderful for her. And not only was Quark wanting to do, that but armen wanted to do that as well also i would add your consummate professional and even if you didn't like her you would be putting this into the story that you liked her just made it easier because you didn't have to work on finding something to like about her yeah exactly well they toast and as they're toasting each other gropak throws quark and the table to the ground he says I just can't stand for this anymore

challenges Quark to the death oh my word and I'm surprised that neither Tumach nor Grilka says anything after that right yeah you kind of played that too yeah we're like huh yeah you're down on the ground

and you're looking around like aren't you gonna say something I mean you are the lady of the house didn't it cut to Grilkas there's a reaction from Groka though but it's blank but it's almost like it was almost like well this is what happens in Klingon culture

kind of a look is what I read from that. Yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right. I don't know. I would have been a little stunned. Maybe she was stunned. And, you know, no, it did kind of look like a Klingon response.

Very much so. All right, we go to the O'Brien's quarters next. Another awkward scene and an awkward story. Miles is home from work early. He and Keko start a little sexy time romance. uh kira interrupts this she interrupts a little coldly she's uh she's trying to be all business here so she's going on a trip she's going to go to bayjor for a few days and miles is

very happy about that he's like great great you should do that go far away he's relieved which is also out of character for how he's been behaving yeah yeah it's it's a little sitcomy yes that's why i disagree with ron more it's a great story if you're going to treat it with the nuance that it deserves but this is a sitcom version of it and the gravity that it deserves yeah yeah yeah well keko can't stand this she's like no no no you can't just go to Bejore by yourself you can't go alone miles you're going with her and he says no no I can't possibly but he's already set himself up because the scene started with him going I don't have to work so much and nothing to do

yeah which is antithetical to what we're what Odo says about he's missing in action. Yes. Yes. So who are we to believe here? Her response is, Kekos, it's sort of like all of her responses to this point could also point to her having an affair. Why doesn't she give a shit about all of this?

Why is she so relaxed and pushing him away, pushing him and carried together, right? When this whole time. Yes, you're right. And if we go back a couple episodes where she. insisted that kira move in with them why she's okay with the fact that kira's going away for a number of days what happened to that need with her baby yeah yeah well she said she has a botanical thing she has to attend so that's why she's sending miles to be close to that baby and is that botanical thing on the station is it on beige or where is it uh they don't say

they don't say so there's the thing too that if this was what you were saying ron more was saying there's so much that could have made this like wow life is complicated yes but those complications don't happen by accident you have to discuss these kinds of things this is not just a this isn't a real relationship right now and it pisses me off sorry the way kako's reacting is similar to as if she doesn't care because she has another guy on the side named mourn or whoever but it just it's still well you know what I'm saying it's it's still you're right on it's confusing it's confusing but she's right that what a layer that would have been that she's got an affair that she's been dealing with right my goodness thanks for bringing that up

well she insists miles go pack your bags you're going with her to bejor yeah oh boy then also but um um comedy moment and we're in a sitcom Miles and Kira both look stricken. Yeah. We go to the mess hall next. Quark is panicking, thinks that he could just win this. He's going to demand

that Thopac kill him. And then Thopac won't be able to do it because that's dishonorable. And Worf says, no, that's not going to work. Nice try, but not going to work. Right, where they talked about, that's what happened in House of Quark. He did the exact same move there, right?

That's the move he used. and it will not work this time. And who saved him? Galron. Galron. There you go. Galron's not on the station. No.

No, he's not. Cork basically ends this scene with, all right, my choices are to not show up and lose Groka or die. And then Dax says, wait a minute, I've got an idea. Lovely moment from Terry, a very lovely moment.

The bulb going off in her head is really quite wonderful. Oh. Thank you. Thank you, Herman. Yeah, nice detail there. Nice intention, playing a nice, clear intention. We cut to the Hollisweet with Dax's idea.

We see Quark and Dax are fighting, but now we notice that Cork's wearing a Ferengi headband back there. Worf is also fighting, and he's got some kind of VR device or something on his head. And Quark wins. He defeats Dax, which is crazy. And she compliments him on it. Yeah. We realize that Wharf is kind of.

puppeting cork, I guess, with this VR device. And it seems to be working. Armin, I know that you told us that little back piece on Frankie Heads was used to hide the fact that there's the edges, the seam or whatever. So why, and that you were the only one that had a full back that didn't need to be hidden. So why did they give that to you in this part of the episode? To hide the device. Oh, just the device itself. Okay, got it. Yeah, because Terry will, in a moment or two, we'll go behind there and turn it. Oh, okay. It's in the back underneath. Because otherwise the Klingons would see it. Yes, sorry.

Well, Quark goes to bed, and Dax and Worf are left alone. And, uh, Dax asked Warf, what do you see in Grilke? Like, what is it about her? And he tries to describe it. And she comments, well, she sounds like a statue, like just some not real human. It's a wonderful line. Yeah. It is.

And Dax says, you know, you should maybe try to find someone more fun. and more attainable. So she's getting pretty, pretty direct about her agenda here. If I were in your shoes, I'd be looking for someone a little more entertaining. Yeah, that too is a wonderful line as well. And very obvious about where she's coming from. Yes. I like our storyline.

Yes. I do, too. And the three of us, the triangle of the three of us, I like it very much. It was really fun. It's great. Well, we go to the Hall of Warriors. Here's next. Grilka, Thopaka, Tumek, are waiting.

Quark arrives. A nice VFX transition on that door when you come in. Yes. I'm not sure why they needed it, though. They wanted it. Creative. Digesting that this is just a holo-sweet. Yeah, they needed to show that it was a holodeck program, right?

So that's why the door morphed. No, maybe not, right? No, they don't. They didn't need it. I don't know. But let's go to how amazing. Quark looked walking through the door with this. I feel like my outfit on that I have that outfit when I did Blood Oath for war it the first time.

Yeah. And you looked glorious. You did. You looked very handsome. You looked super great. Yeah. Thank you, Bob Blackman. Yes.

Great outfit. We cut over to the Hollisweet where Worf is wearing this VR device. And I made a note that, you know, he could have just put on those Rayban meta glasses. they weren't invented yet they well well they should have been they should have been they've already been invented it's meta version 1000 at this point right if we only knew like all the pads if we only knew we have laptops yeah wharf's got his VR his star trek VR device on this kind of necklace thing or something dax is there she says he's in position and back to the to the hallisweet fight quark says he's here to win Grilka, very traditional, Quark, son of Keldar, why are you here?

And the swinging of the Batleth, I thought, as you're talking there. It's all Dan Curry. Oh, Dan Curry. Really good. It was you practicing. It was me practicing, yes. By the pool. By the pool.

It felt like you were by the pool. That's how relaxed you were. It is a magical pool. So Quark does his fancy twirling of the batleth. The fight begins, and Quark immediately is winning. Because we're cutting back and forth. We see Wharf doing moves and puppeting through this VR thing. Quark's move.

So he's winning when suddenly on Wharf's side, his VR glasses get caught in the Batleth or something. It breaks. Yeah. And Quark realizes it. He's on his own. And he screams, wait! I loved your scream, by the way, when you stop the fight. Dax and Wharf are trying to fix the VR on that side.

Let's remember that Thopac complements Quark on his ability with the Batliff. Yes, he does. It was a major surprise for him. Even though in the sci-fi story, Michael Dorn's character was supposed to be puppeting. You had to make those moves look as good as they were. It's true, 100%. Yep. Quark says, wait, he screams, wait.

And then he claims the right of proclamation. And they're like, what? I've never heard of the right of proclamation. And he says, it's a Ferengi custom. Grilka says, look, he's honored our traditions. They should hear, you know, we should hear what he has to say. Yeah. And he says, the right of proclamation is a speech.

He's got to make a speech. Which is very funny. I just love Joe Ruskin's reading of that line. I'd never heard of the right of proclamation. It's just so subtle and so simple, but it was so great. It was perfect. I love, I love his speech. It had a lot of Shakespeare.

influence in your speech there. Big surprise. Yes. And you know Shakespeare so well, so well done to you. You can see as an actor that you're searching for what to say, but the conviction of what you're saying is like, hmm. So even though when you listen to it, it's like, it doesn't quite make sense. But you really sell it. You sell it so well. I've done enough Shakespeare in plays where I've gone up And I've had to make Shakespeare up on those experiences. Well, in the middle of this improvised Shakespearean speech about bats of love hanging in caves and aquariums and all of the fertile sand, suddenly you feel the VR come back online and you stop yourself. You're like, okay, enough talking. Back to the fighting.

I love that too. You quickly win this fight. You disarm Thopok. He's down on the ground. I tell Worf, no more showing off this time. Just get it over with. Get it over with. And Worf is like, I wasn't showing off.

It was like. But again, kudos to Armin for showing us when he's doing the proclamation. The actual VR working again is that it pulls him over. Yes. And we buy it. We buy it 1,000% on that. Yeah. Yeah.

I have a slight problem with this. I don't think we've heard it yet in an episode, but later on, we will get this. He goes to kill Thopac, and because he's infuriating, he's been fighting. But that's really not Ferengi behavior. Ferengi are very proud. I find this out later, so it's sort of...

I know this fact. But Ferengi don't kill other beings. Oh. Period. They don't do that. So the fact that he wants to kill him at this moment is only stopped by Dax, as I remember correctly. That seems to me like that's wrong. He should threaten him, yes, but shouldn't really be eager.

I mean, he's pulling, I'm pulling against the bat with I want it to go down. And Worf's not doing it. I don't remember, I don't think. It's Worf that stops it. It's Worf that stops it. Yeah. But why does Worf stop it at that point? I don't know.

Because it's not... Maybe he knows that about you. Maybe. Oh. But it doesn't... I'm playing it as though I want to kill him and that's wrong. You wouldn't do. But I didn't know that at the time.

Well, maybe that just ignites. You're so ignited with passion. Yeah. I mean, he was trying to kill me, so yeah. Yeah. It's different if you're defending yourself. Let's just reshoot this episode, Armand, and have you do it again, the problem. I know.

Okay. All right. Well, instead of killing Thopok, you take his batleth, you offer a, to Grilka, and she grabs your collar. You grab hers. It's hot and... But she discharges Thopok, so his honor is satisfied, right, before the... Grabbing happens. Yeah, here's your bat with. Now, get the hell out. Now get the heck out of here. We need some sexy time. We need vols, crazy vol time. Yeah. Yes, they grab each other. We cut to the Hall of Suite. Dax is disconnecting Wharf. Back to the Hall of Warriors. Quark and

Groka fall into the floor, very hot and bothered for each other. Back to the Hollisweet, Dax gets Worf disconnected, but she doesn't get it. She speaks Klingon. Dax and Warf fight. Oh, I'm starting the ritual. Yes. That's what it is. Yeah, you start doing the whole Lukar on cable. Yes. It's you. It's you. Computer, Batlith. Yeah, I'm like done. Yeah. I'm making this happen now. You're making it happen. Right into it. You are. throws him to the ground, grabs him by the neck. So both of these storylines are having the same ending, the hot and bothered ending here.

What must the holodeck be thinking? Oh, sweet passion. Yes. Just as Dax brings Worf into her, we cut to the runabout. I just want to say, when I first say what I say, I can't find it again. Yeah. When Worf turns around and realize, because he knows as soon as I say that, but his turn, when he turns and reveals that he gets what's about to happen, I just thought that was such a beautiful, well-newanced moment by Michael Dorn. And it was like all the light bulbs of like, yeah, what have I been thinking?

What have I been thinking exactly? She's right here. So that was really great because ours has built on friendship. It's very similar, which I think is really neat. The parallel between Quark and Grilka and Dax and Wharf, we both have history with each other. So this isn't coming from Worf's like just looking at her being Gaga. This is about built trust and admiration. It's what you get the advice you gave Quark.

get to know her, to learn about her family, learn about her past. Yeah, so it's well-earned payoff that's happening right now between Dax and Worf and for the audience, too. Yeah. Well, you know what's not well-earned payoff, the runabout scene with Miles and Kira. Thank you. They come in in their vacation outfits. He asks about the house they're going to be staying at. She's got a very funny description of basically the most romantic place ever in the history of romance.

Oh, my gosh. Who didn't want to go there after she described it? Yeah, she was like miserable describing this place. It was funny. Sitcomy, but funny. And they both are miserable thinking about it. Miles says, nope, I'm not doing it. I'm not going.

She agrees she's going to go see Shakar. She changes her plans. I'm going to go see Shakar. Hello, Shakar. Where's Shakar been, you know, this whole episode? Right. So much for realistic. Yeah.

They have a moment where they acknowledge to each other. You know, it would have been nice. in another life. Yeah, but there's also a moment where Miles almost kisses her at that point. She's the one who's holding the boundary stronger than he is. She sure did. Yeah.

I mean, after he says it would have been nice, all right, let's not Miles. And he said, yes, Norese, get out. And the way she says get out was, I think, so that felt like the most real moment

in their little story. storyline because there was she was serious it's not funny anymore right but she wasn't mean she was firm and I just thought it was a beautiful delivery and it's so interesting it's just two words two words but it but it was a lot of information and two words I agree with you on that yes absolutely all right so we're in the infirmary cork is completely just worked over okay but I beat up he's really beat up but happy but super happy And I got to say, Armand, there's a laugh in here that you give when you're like, that hearty laugh was the ball.

Man, it was so good. It was an 11 out of 10 in terms of your, it just, ah, the laughter from Mary Kay Adams earlier coming down the steps when you guys are flirting, your laughter at the end here. So genuine, so lovely and just wonderful. And Bershear obviously realizes what's been happening. And he doesn't want to hear any of it, right? He's like, oh, don't tell me the details. And at that point, that's when we get to see Dax and Worf come in, all disheveled.

We can look even worse than they did. Even worse, yes, yes. There's a thing that you do, Terry, that I thought, oh, brilliant, brilliant. After you've come in and you start playing with the hair, with Worf's hair. Oh, I love that. Thank you. I went, oh, absolutely. That's brilliant.

Yeah, a piece of business there. Thank you. Good piece of business. Well, it shows intimacy. Of course. And I love him. I mean, who pulled the hair down? Yeah, did you?

Yeah, there you go. Anyway, great, great scene. I like the runner to Bashir asks Quark. And then he goes, no, I don't want to think about it. And then he asks them. And he goes, you know what? I'm going to stop asking people that question. Yes.

It's very, very funny. Yeah. So Warf and Dax go over to the bio bed to wait for Bashir. Yeah. They discuss what happened a little more privately. Yeah, they're supposed to get married. I love this scene. I think they wrote this really well.

Yeah. It was very sweet. Yeah. They're supposed to get married. Yeah. Traditionally, they're supposed to marry now. Right. Says Wharf.

Says Wharf. Yeah. Dax just wants to take it day by day, though. Yeah, neither one of them are very traditional. That's one of the great points of this, and I'll bring this up later, but Dax points out to Worf that he's not as traditional as he thinks he is. and that's a great learning lesson for one of our characters in our show that he may think that he's the traditional Klingon

but in fact he overdoes at times being the traditional Klingon. He thinks this is the honorable thing to do because that's what Klingons do. But in reality, no, the real Klingons don't really act that way. They give lip service to it, but they don't act that way. But he tries to emulate that behavior always. And that's one of the great lessons that Dax teaches, Wharf, is that you're not traditional. You're not.

Yeah. You weren't raised by Klingons. That's right. Yeah. But I like to when she says, he has these questions he wants answered. And she's, I don't want to answer questions right now because she's in that moment of the. Good place. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. And when she does say, take it one day at a time, it really shows how. much more attached Wharf was than he realized because he says, I do not like the uncertainty of that arrangement. When things for certain, you've stopped thinking about Grilke. Now, this is the healthy grown-up relationship. And then he breaks up and I break up. It's like, I get it. The laugh was great, the two of us. His laugh was so hard. Yes. All the, again, Grilka's laughter, Cork's laughter, Dax's laughter, and Wharf's laughter. Oh, my God.

Worf laughed so hard that when we cut to the space station out in space, you can still hear him laughing. That's how loud his laughter was. I want to just say, too, as actors, to just produce a laughter out of nowhere is a really difficult thing. So you have to appreciate how, wonderful it is when laughter sounds natural. It's really no different than the tears. I think people think, oh, it's a laugh. That's really easy. It's not. It is if you have another acting partner where you know to tell each other a joke or recalling a funny story. Those are necessary things to do. But I think we did a good job. Yeah. You did a great job. I just had a memory of, and I don't remember what scene it was, but we were in the mess hall. And the scene started

on Voyager. The scene started with some laughter. And it's so hard to do. You're right. And so Ethan Phillips, every take would tell a joke just before we- So smart. And it was so funny. I was like, every take of like, what is he going to say this time? What are we going to get this time? We came to the end of this episode. It's so exciting. Thank you to both Armin and Terry for being guest hosts together, which is so exciting to happen together. Oh, I love that. I love our for us together. What is your theme slash lesson slash moral for this episode, Robbie McNeil? Well, coming off that final sequence in the infirmary where everybody's beat up and I wrote down, the path to love can be painful and confusing. True. It's good.

Good. That's good. That's very good. All right. Terry, you got one? I do. Speak your mind and tell people how you feel. Risk loss rather than keeping it all shut in because you never know what the response might be. And it's worth being a little embarrassed and to share your feelings. So speak up your mind. Mine's a third cousin to that. My is instead of falling in. love with a traditional ideal, go after someone more suited to your individual taste. Oh, great. Oh, perfect.

I like that. Thank you. I have two. The first one is when it comes to love, sometimes what we are searching for is right in front of us is one. And then the other one is live in the present and take things day by day. Our Patreon poll winner for the theme moral of this episode is submitted by Andrea May. What we think we want isn't necessarily what we need.

Oh, I love that. Well said. That's very, very well said. That is the end of our podcast. Patreon, patrons. Stay tuned for your bonus material for everyone else. Next time, which is next week, is not going to happen. So the following week is the next episode that will upload.

And that will be, nor the battle to the strong. with Terry and special guests, Sirak Lofton. Oh, that'll be fun. Lucky us. We are so lucky. All right, everyone. Have a wonderful day. Bye.

Thanks, everybody. See you later. You know, So, Thank you.