The Delta Flyers - Martha Hackett

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

The Delta Flyers is a weekly podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. This week’s episode is an interview with Martha Hackett.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, Brannon Braga, Bryan Fuller, John Espinosa, & Ariana DelbarAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Liz Scott, Eve England, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, E, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Jamason Isenburg, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey, Lori Tharpe, Mary Burch, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Roxane Ray, Daniel O’Brien, Bronwen Duffield, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Danie Crofoot, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Michael Dismuke, Jonathan Brooks, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, Daina Burnes, Morgan Linton, David Smith, & Matt BurchAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Richard Banaski, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Samantha Weddle, Chloe E, Nikita Jane, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Species 2571, Mary O'Neal, Dat Cao, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Tara Polen, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Jennifer Jelf, Justin Weir, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Aaron Ogitis, Ryan Benoit, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Captain Jak Greymoon, David Wei Liu, Clark Ochikubo, David J Manske, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Cindy Holland, Will Forg, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Russell Nemhauser, Lawrence Green, Christian Koch, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Shane Pike, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Akash Patel, Jennifer Vaughn, Cameron Wilkins, Michael Butler, Ken McCleskey, Walkerius Logos, Abby Chavez, Preston Meyer, Amanda Faville, Lisa Hill, Cerise Robinson, & Benjamin BulferThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail].”Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

All right, everyone, welcome to yet another episode of the Delta Flyers with Robbie and myself. And this week's special guest is none other than one of our favorite recurring actors on this show. The show that we did back in the day, Martha Hackett, welcome. That show. The show we may not speak of. The title we may not name. Yes. The characters we may not speak of.

Exactly. So as, you know, we're keeping in line with this SAG strike and we're going to go into a deep dive of Martha's life before she became an actress. I mean, how did she become an actress? Like what, you know, we're going to get to that. So start off, I mean, you were born in the New England area. Is that correct? Is that?

Yes, I was born in a town called Needham, which is a suburb of Boston. It's right next to Newton and Wellesley. and all those places. Yes. It was a great place to grow up. Smaller town, but it was great. Yeah. A famously dry town.

Okay. Really? Yeah. And not until I went to college and left. Was there a restaurant that even served alcohol? And people would have to drive. So there were liquor stores on every sort of port of entry to the next town. Oh, my goodness.

Those people who make a killings of people who just drive over. It was funny. Did you grow up in a household that was, into sports at all in terms of the Patriots, the Celtics, is that a yes there? All of those teams, the Red Sox, Patriots, the Bruins. Oh, yes, even hockey, too. The Celtics. Right.

So it was a huge, you grew up in a huge sports household. Yeah, I have seven brothers. Oh, my gosh. And two sisters. Where are you in that range of nine children? Are you number three? No, 10 children. I'm the ninth.

Oh, you're almost the baby. There's one after you. And all your brothers were into all those sports teams, basically? Most, yes, most all were. Did they play sports themselves? Yes. Okay. Football, hockey.

Nobody played baseball, but everybody loved baseball. Yeah. Ten children. I know. Can you imagine? I can't. No. I can't even imagine that.

Nobody can imagine. Ten children. This is in the modern era. This is like, I don't consider your parents being from the age, you know, the ancient era. There's still the modern era. and they had 10. Yeah, but it was sort of the Irish Catholic. There were plenty of people in our,

I went to a Catholic school for grade school, and there were so many people in that community who had large, large families. We weren't the largest. So that was the norm. There was a family, the Dardy's, I think, had 14 kids. Oh, my. And the father was a doctor.

And they were 11, 12, 6, 9, you know. So 10, we were sort of in the mid-range. You know, Cape Mulgrew has. an Irish Catholic family. She came from an Irish Catholic family, big family, lots of kids. And she sort of grew into her creative side in that crazy family, you know,

the mix of so many people. Do you think that the large family had something to do with your creative, kind of playing around, playing roles? Well, yes, because, you know, there's got to be some way to get some attention. No, my poor mother, she had her. hands full. I mean, I, and as I've always joked, you know, as soon as my first son, you know,

started running around the house and saying, no, I forgave my mother everything. Right. Of course. Like my first boy, you know, like, what? How did you do this? Yeah. Well, when I was a little girl, I could, I could sing. And I used to sing to the radio songs in the car. And my sister one day was like, listen to her. She can sing. You know, but I was three, I think, when that happened three or four and then it was you know everybody wanted me to lip sync michael jackson you know jackson five and yeah um and and then sing on anyway i i was a little bit of a performer that way okay my mother liked it she liked hearing me sing um and that's sort of what got it started you know being singing okay and being comfortable doing that in front of it so when was your first

school play when did you do that well it was actually kind of a big big deal. So when I was in the third grade at the Catholic school, and I don't know how they got the gumption to do this, but the teacher in the class, in my class, particularly, was not a nun. She was a lay teacher. That's what they were called. She had this idea. She wanted to do this really famous, real operetta, Hansel and Gretel. Oh, wow. Actually by Englebert Humperding, but the original Engelbert Humperding, the German composer. Right. Not the, yes. Yeah, yeah. And it is an operetta. There's very little dialogue. Anyway, so everybody class. What grade was this? Sorry, this is third grade. Very ambitious. Very ambitious. Yeah. Third grade. And yeah, when I look back on it, I can't believe it. And everybody auditioned. Everybody had the chance. And I really didn't think that I would be cast as, you know, I just didn't think that I would get it. Yeah. And I did.

You got Gretel. Yes. And Hansel was played by my friend Michael, lived around the corner. from me, so we would rehearse together. Perfect. But the first time I came out on stage, you know, I was terrified, even though I didn't know why I needed to be terrified. But the auditorium was full. We actually had a little stage in our, in the gymnasium of our school, you know, where you also play basketball, but there was a stage at the end.

And the balcony. And it was full, and I came out, and I did my first little number. Yeah. And the audience applauded. after I finished singing in this way that you never, ever forget. I'm not exaggerating because it was like it was literally the roar of the crowd, you know, spell of the grease, but it literally was. And it is something, you know, it was awakening something in me because not a, it wasn't just,

I guess it was this overwhelming approval, you know, of what I just did. But also an affirmation that it was. good that people really enjoyed it and that's that's the little patch i think right that affirmation you being the ninth child you being the ninth child kind of you know as well kind of factored into that i feel you're not getting as much attention and here you are getting all this adulation from your first number from your very first number so you would say that you got hooked in third grade right that was the point playing gretel yes wow absolutely absolutely wow Yeah. It felt, you know, you're kind of too young to understand it.

But when I think back on the feeling, because I never forgot it, it's really profound. Yeah. You have that. It's profound. I had that experience. It just, it reminds me. I'm just connecting with what you're describing that, that feeling you get the first time you feel like, oh, wow, I've moved people enough that they're approving of this. like they're and I remember it was a children's theater play I'd done a couple of plays with

the same children's theater but it was a version of Tom Sawyer a musical version of Tom Sawyer where I played Huck Finn and in this version Huck Finn was really the star like he had the meaty stuff he had the he was it was a great well he's very interesting Huck Finn is more adventures much more interesting than Tom Sawyer even though the play was titled Tom Sawyer what great were you in Robbie what grade was this seventh grade okay seventh grade yeah i think so and uh and i remember the curtain call and i remember people had been applauding and stuff but then when i came out as huck finn before right before tom sawyer was the last one to come out for the call and huck finn comes out me and the audience they'd been applauding but they rose to their feet they jumped up and our

and the applause just elevated you know what i mean and then tom came out Tom saw, you know, the actor playing Tom, and they were already on their feet. And so to me, in my mind, even though it was kind of the two of us were the leads. Yeah. And I'm sure that was a lot of the trigger was, oh, one of the two leads came out. We're going to elevate the applause. But to me, it was like, I owned that moment. Yeah.

Being out there as they all, and it happened every performance. And it just that. And you were hooked. That was when you got stuck with me. Right. But you didn't do, but Robbie, you didn't do theater before. Like, there were no plays that happened before seventh grade that hooked. It was the second, yeah, this was the second play I did.

I had done the Wizard of Oz the year before in sixth grade, six or seven. Maybe this was eighth grade. I can't remember. But not the same hook that made you go, oh, my God, until. No, I didn't. I didn't get that kind of screen. The show, the Wizard of Oz, the first play did, got that kind of thing. But it didn't feel as directly personal.

Yeah, what Martha's saying is like that moment where you hear the volume go up. You hear that specific shift in the audience's enthusiasm for what you've just done. Yeah, exactly. It's very, yeah. And I get it. And it's not just your mother. No. Rangers, people that don't even know you and they love you.

Yeah. Strangers love me. Yeah. And I think we all have that moment of being like, you know, we're hoped, we're in it. But I just wanted to share, I just want to share with Martha, my very first play experience. I was in first grade, I was in a British private school, and I was cast in the play, the animals have a picnic. And I played the pig. And I was the only kid that actually had a pig, like a mask that I had to wear, right? Everybody else, the other animals, they just wore ears or a tail.

But their face was free. So we sat down to have the picnic. We opened up the picnic basket. And someone reaches in and grabs bananas. So we all peel the bananas. And as we begin eating, I forget that I have the mask on my face. So I squashed the banana. It squashed on the thing and the entire school, the entire auditorium burst out laughing.

And I knew that, okay, I can make people laugh. That's for sure. But it wasn't, yeah, the validation wasn't there yet. But I knew that feeling of turning the entire room into an emotion of whether they're clapping or laughing. I felt like, oh, my God, that's powerful. You know, it's absolutely powerful. Yeah. And also, you know that they're looking at you.

Oh, yes. You caught their attention. Yes. I was so embarrassed because I realized. I forgot I had a mask on. But then again, maybe I was so into my character, I forgot that I was wearing the mask. Yes, there you go.

In first grade. You were just, you were the pig. I was the pig. I was the essence of pig. I was, yes. Yes. I was bacon. Okay, so, all right.

So after the third grade, then what, what happened in terms of middle school, high school? Did you do a bunch of theater then? I did. I mean, I did plays every year in junior high. And they were all musicals. They weren't in any straight. Which ones?

Can you tell us which ones you did? Bye-bye Bertie. And I had a solo in Bye-Bi-Birdy, but I was in seventh grade, so they would always cast the ninth graders in leads. And by the time I was in, by the time I was in ninth grade, I got the lead in Guys and Dolls. Perfect. And sort of continued through high school that I was always singing, you know,

solos in the choir, that kind of thing, or just singing here and there. But high school was a little, different because I also like to play sports and so it was a question of can I do the spring show or am I going to be playing lacrosse? You know what you're going to do you couldn't do it all what were your sports by the way besides I play back um well I stopped playing basketball in high school my sister was the basketball star so I just didn't bother I played across lacrosse which is also a great sport yeah it's a great sport um but then my senior year I decided to do the play instead of

doing lacrosse because I couldn't do both. Wow. And that's got, was that good, that's not guys and dolls. It was a play too. Oh. The play was so weird. It was called a bad year for tomatoes. I've never heard of this play.

No, neither had I. Never again. A bad year for tomatoes. I love it. I know. And then in college, I did a lot of theater, but I also had a rock and roll band. Wow. Wait, well, wait, before you get into that, what made, what was your, will you,

theater major at in college? No, there was no theater as a major at the college I went to, but there was a ton of student-inspired student-produced theater. Okay. And this college would be at Harvard that we're talking about? Correct. Okay. So you got in. My freshman year was the year that American Repertory Theater, Bob Brewstein came from Yale and brought some of his company members. But they did not have any kind of major. In a few years, they started this graduate certificate program. They just brought the theater company and started what's known as ART now. Tony Shalhub was in that original company.

Tony Shaloup, yeah. So Harvard, are you a legacy? Did one of your parents go to Harvard? No, no, no. None of your older siblings went to Harvard. You were the one that, so you were such this ultimate A-list person that you nailed it, that Harvard accepted you. I mean, I wouldn't call myself that.

I had a interesting background. I was local. I mean, I think I checked some boxes. Okay. I actually had a full scholarship because of financial aid. I had a financial aid scholarship. So I think I ticked some boxes off. And I also had some great, great mentor teachers in high school who wrote me, wrote

great recommendations for me. I know. And I, you know, I tested well. I had great grades. I had I did a lot of stuff. And I had a job. And I, you know what I mean? I was one of these kids juggling a lot of balls. I don't know how I did it because I don't think I could ever do that again. So, so I wasn't just the, yes, I wasn't just perfect. I was well-rounded, I would say, that's the- Okay. The overall package, the Harvard admissions group were looking at this thinking, look at this. She's so well-rounded. She checks off all these boxes. Let's take her. Let's give her this scholarship. So your major, since it wasn't theater, what was it? English. Oh, such a good major to have. Literature? It was, yes. The major at that time was called English and American

literature and languages. Wow. But I, so Bob Brewsteen's there and he's seeing some student shows as the years go by. And he had me auditioned for a show. I didn't get cast. But then my senior year, I did get cast in something as a you know we had little peon parts the students did but it made me equity Cherry Jones was in that show you know I was going to say that's a very classy

theater company Garrett that is okay it is a premier theater company especially at that time in the regional when regional theater was maybe at its height of of enthusiasm I think yeah an ascension you know

in ascension yes it was it was it's a premier theater and still does some very important work. But yeah, that was at a... So that gave me the confidence, you know, that was sort of... Also, I just thought, you know, you graduate from Harvard and you have a lot of expectations. Yeah, I can imagine. And I was, I just didn't know.

I mean, I decided to list what I didn't think I could live without. Because I really wasn't sure where I should go. Oh, I thought that I would write, but that just never clicked for me. And performance was the thing that always clicked. Yeah. Always. Yeah. And so that's when I decided to seek out a graduate program for acting.

So because I decided I still was attached to this sort of academic model for making my way through the world. I had no concept of getting an agent or going to New York and working, which would have probably been fine. didn't do that. Where did you get your MFA from then? USC. Oh my goodness. So you left the East Coast. You came all the way out to California to go to... Who was running the program at USC at the time? W. Duncan Ross, Bill Ross, English actor. Really wonderful person, really the right person for me. And in fact, I auditioned at Yale twice. I took a year off between. And they all, you know, because they knew I was coming from, you know, Bob's little stamp of approval, whatever. But the second time I auditioned for them, they said, where else did you apply? Because the first time I hadn't applied to any place else, I was so disorganized.

And I told them, and they said, work with Bill Ross if you get the chance. Wow, really? Yeah. So they encouraged you to go with Bill. Yeah, Earl Geister said that to me. And it was really the right choice for me. Right, but you didn't have any family in California or anything. Is that right?

Everyone was back in Boston area. So that's a huge move for you. to make away from your parents. I packed my Schwinn three speed bike in a bike box. I didn't realize like what traveling with a bicycle across the, an old bicycle. What did I do? That's what you brought one old old ass swin bike. I think it was stuck in second gear. You know, they sell bikes in California. Yeah. They do sell new. Yeah. And I took a and I took a red, a red eye. And so I arrived and you arrive earlier when you fly from Boston. I arrived at four or five in the morning.

And then rolled your bike. I took a bus from LAX and they dropped me off with someplace on Figueroa. I mean, it was just. Oh my gosh. I was, I was sweating. Yes. I remember that reminds me of when I moved to New York City

from Atlanta, Georgia. I took a train to New York. And I literally had a trunk. It was like right out of 42nd Street. Oh, my God. Hey, Broadway. I get out of Penn Station. with my trunk and I go to the curb and there's the cab area right and this guy waves to me he goes

hey you need a cab you need a cab and I said yeah and he waves a cab over yeah I'm being hustled I'll you know I will not bury the lead I'm being conned here but I didn't know it I got my trunk and and the cab comes over and the cab driver you know gets out puts the thing in and then the guy standing there with his hand out he goes uh you know you need to to tip you need to tip me and i was like oh i didn't know so i'd pull out my wallet all i had was a couple of 20s i think i had i moved to new york with like a hundred bucks in my pocket oh my god and so i pulled out a 20 and i said oh i'm sorry i don't have any change he goes oh i'll get you change i'll be right back and he grabs the 20 and he runs never came back and i'm like he just ran

around the corner he's not coming back he didn't work there there there was no he was the whole thing was a hustle so that was my first and it was a similar thing it was like Five in the morning. I've been on a train all night long. Right. Yeah. I got to the, I had graduate student housing, which was also kind of low down because usually grad students don't live in housing, but I had no choice.

And I'm ringing the doorbell knocking, but it's, you know, five in the morning, 5.30 in the morning. And the tutor came out and he said, you know, doors aren't open until nine. And he closed it. Oh, and I sat outside for hours. Oh, my. It was very loading. Had you even been to California?

No, she, that was your first time ever. Yeah, it was crazy. What year was this when you actually came out, would you say? I, right after the Olympics, 84. 84. Okay, so I was a freshman at UCLA. If I'd known you, Martha, I would have taken you away from the way. I would have said, you're not going to wait here.

Let's go to the mall, you know, so we would have done something. But you know, these are the things that, you know, you never forget. No, exactly. Exactly. Oh, my gosh. That's a huge move. All right. So then USC, an amazing experience for you. Yes, you would say. Yes. Any regrets or any, what's the highlights of that experience? Well, I don't have any regrets about the training I got there. And I don't have any, I don't have any regrets about pursuing theater because that, that's definitely, I still feel most comfortable doing theater. But I, so I don't have any regrets about that. and I had some amazing, amazing teachers. Anna Devere Smith was one of my teacher. That's right. I forgot she was teaching there at the time. Did she do her one-woman show?

I was going to say. Well, you know, she would be teaching class. And it was only later, I realized she was working on characters. Yeah. She was talking to, you know, she was doing all these men, you know. She was doing Twilight, Los Angeles. Yeah. And, no, she was, she's super, super smart, intellectual.

But I love how she was, workshopping her own show while she was working on it was really it was really great though did you so you're at USC in the theater pro in the in the graduate theater program USC though has always been known as a film school like film school is is you know world the film school had so much money even back then yeah it already had the buildings that had been gifted by whomever you know it the film school was like another world the theater department office was an old wait room for the football team. Former wait room.

No. I'm not joking. And it was on the edge of a practice feel. Oh, no. And then the theaters were all over the place. And there was a beautiful, the Bing Theater was near the School of Music, which is also very prestigious. Yes, it's very good.

In that little beautiful courtyard. Right. And, you know, kids would be like playing their cello outside. So the theaters were scanning. outed around, but the theater department's office was... Oh, no red carpet for the theater department office. Wow. Oh, no.

Were you interested in, as an actor, in working on any of the film's department's projects? Yes, and I did. I did do a few student films, you know, here and there. Yeah. You know, sometimes, Martha, you'll see an actor that's been doing theater for their entire life, basically, and their first film project or any television project they do. Oftentimes, they're way to. too big on camera.

They don't know that it has to be shrunk down. Did you have that sort of awakening on any of these theater, any of these graduate student films or whatever that you did? No, well, my first job, I did that because... Oh. So the casting director, a casting assistant, had seen me in the last show that I did at SC. And so within, I hadn't even graduated yet, I think.

No, right after I graduated, I had an audition. And it was for two episodes, but it was small role, but for two episodes. Anyway, I got it. There's so many stories about that, too. But when I saw the final product, you know, when I saw myself, and I think on set, too, it was my voice was very loud and I was very clear. And I just, I thought, oh, wow, wow.

You know, you kind of go, oh. So the director didn't pull you, he didn't reel you back in then. He let you do your thing. I wasn't important enough. Oh, they just let it go. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was fine. But at that point, I did not have representation. Okay. And I thought, well, this was easy. It's going to be easy. I'll get everything. It was not easy. No.

You know, it's funny about the being loud and speaking very theatrically. So I went to Juilliard. And after my first year at Juilliard, first year at Juilliard is a lot of breaking you down, right? It's speech classes, voice classes. It's working on diction and all kinds of, you know, it was just breaking you down the way you speak, the way you walk, all that. So I get this episode of this kind of sci-fi anthology show. I get the episode, I go out, and my character in this is supposed to be in the present day, 1984 or something, and he's got a fever, and he somehow connects with a girl from Salem, Massachusetts.

who gets accused of being a witch. So she's supposed to be the period actress, you know, with the more proper accent and the, you know. And I'm supposed to be the modern kind of kid who's trying to help her out. And that was the premise. They had Justine Bateman playing the Salem girl, who was like a valley girl.

Like she played, if you think back on the show she did in the 80s, that she was a big star of at that moment. She was sort of a valley girl. girl. Yeah. And I come out of my first year of Juilliard thinking I must use consonants very crisply and speak so, you know, I did exactly what you're describing. And the director came over to me and he's like, you've got to just like loosen up. Like, you sound like you should be in Salem, Massachusetts in 16. It was flipped. And she sounds like she should be in the San Fernando Valley and we've got to get you guys.

Oh. So I had to like, and I kept trying, but it was so funny. He literally is like, stop it. Stop with the Juilliard. Stop with the fancy speech. You sound British. Stop British. Yeah.

Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh. So much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's.

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I got a job after two years on a daytime soap opera that was a multi-year contract. And so I left to do that. And I left, I very, I didn't want to leave school. I was loving my class. I had a very bizarre, weird mashup of people that included Andre Brower and John Tenney

and Kathy McNany and some Doug Hutchison's weirdos but super talented actors that I was thrilled to be in a class with but I needed the money so yeah I needed because I was putting myself through school and supporting myself at the time and so yeah right

and the work begets work yes yes but that that yes that classical theater train accent, trying to learn to shed it was tricky for me for a while. That's so funny. Martha, let's ask about your process. When you get a new role, whether it's theater or film or television, how do you

break down the character in terms of your step-by-step process of what you do, how you actually memorize lines, things like that, just walk us through it. Well, you know, it's sort of changed, it has changed over the years. And it does change also depending on what the project is. Because I think sometimes I've done just, as my theater background suggests, too much work on things. I think I mess up sometimes auditions that way. But I don't know if you can, but sometimes I just feel like I'm probably guilty of doing too much. And somehow that translates.

But I mean, the way I work on a play, I would say, is what is the world of this play? And that has to do, what is the style of this play? Who are these people? How are they, you know, connected to one another? And then, you know, specifically my character, I can just have a field day in creating a life. And I don't have to share that with anybody. Right. You know, those are the fabulous secrets of what we do, I think.

I mean, if you want, you can. You create a full backstory for your character that has nothing to do with what's in the play at all. Like, there's no. No, no. No, the play will provide me clues. A clues towards that. How can I figure out how I got here? Okay.

You know, sometimes. But it gets to be my imagination. Unless the director has a very, very clear idea of what they want it to be. Right. And sometimes directors do. You sit around for a few weeks and you're discussing all kinds of things. Like, what is this family's dynamic or whatever? And sometimes they don't at all.

Yeah. So, and I. I think there's, there are, there's more than one road to Oz and his craft, for sure. Yeah. But I do all that. And the backstory thing that you bring up, the creating a backstory reminds me of an exercise in acting class that I loved called a life story exercise. And the way that the teacher did it with us, with me, the teacher would have you sit in front of the class and tell a real story about myself. just a real story that had some emotional value that I could connect to

and tell it as honestly and as detailed as I could and connect with the emotional value of that real-life story about myself. And then once I'd sort of experienced what that felt like as me telling a real story about myself, then the teacher would say, okay, let's talk about your character. Tell me a life story about that character. Tell me an emotional event that happened to that character. And it was tricky because I would find myself,

sometimes in that exercise, oh, now I've got to perform. Right. You could feel, I could feel the difference between when I'm talking about myself, Robbie, telling a real story about something that embarrassed me or scared me or meant something to me. There's that kind of energy and connection. But then when I'd have to do it about the character, all of a sudden it was like, well, I was once young and, you know, all of a sudden I'm performing.

And my mother frightened me. It just became so, you know, so. That's a great exercise. But it reminds me of what you were talking about. Yeah. And I think over time, I have changed that kind of homework I do to become, to find, like, what you're saying. What is it that I share with the character? What part of me or what part of my life or how can I, because that's where, I mean, sometimes we're interested.

enough you know we don't have to we don't have to create i mean not create we don't have to make something up yeah it's real it's all within us right we have it in our human experience right and and it's allowing it or recognizing it and how it might correspond with the character but i always find that that stuff kind of fun that's yeah yeah yeah and uh also though i really depend i love rehearsal. I love rehearsing. And it's it's kind of difficult for me in TV and film. You don't, you're rehearsing camera moves, as you should. Sometimes you don't get to, you know, work on things that, you know, sometimes a good director will not know what the important moment in this scene is or what has to happen in this scene. But I always wanted to do more. So we know we'd have it like right there. when the cameras were rolling. But I love rehearsal. I almost love it.

But, you know, I just love it because it's, especially with theater, it's what's going on between you. It's between the actors that this, you know, and the story comes out, I think. We're not in a vacuum unless it's a one-person show. So do you find your preparation for film and TV? How does it change from your prep for stage work? then? Well, I like to be very, very solidly memorized. I know some people don't have that

habit. I need to have that so that I can forget it, you know. And your process of memorization for TV and film is with another person helping you or all your own work? It used to not be. I mean, sometimes I do that. If I'm feeling there's the scenes tricky or I want someone else's input. I might do that. But I just put my head down and I learn the lines and I learn scene at a time or beat at a time, you know, section at a time. Do you learn, this is going to sound silly when I ask it, but do you just learn your lines or do you learn the whole scene? Because like Ethan Phillips, we just talked to him and he said he learns the whole. Yeah. He learns everybody's So he could literally recite the whole scene.

I think Kate does that too. She knows everyone. She used to know. Oh, my God. Yeah, that sounds about right. Well, I don't know their lines verbata, you know, I don't know, but I know what they're saying to me. Yeah. Because I have to know.

Yeah. Because I've got to listen and I have to know why I'm saying what I say. Yeah. I have to know the, you know, the trajectory, the journey. But I can't say that I could, you know, recite the whole scene. Yeah, I never, I could never do that. I never did that. I was surprised to hear Ethan say that.

I'm not surprised, but just, it actually makes sense to me. It does. I never tried to do that, but I wish I had back then. I used to be so, so gifted at learning lines quickly. I mean, of course, that's gone. I learn them, but I don't learn them as quickly. Yeah. But I used to know where the line was on the page.

So I had like a visual, I once I walk, I took over in a play once in literally three days I took over a role. And that I really knew where the lines were on the page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's a weird thing. That's such a strange thing, you know, to have that in my mind's eye, I knew where it was. It's just, it's odd. I don't necessarily think that helped in the performing or the. storytelling but it was a learning thing you know it's funny a visual like that like knowing where

it is on the page for me i found that if i could block out a scene for myself at home i would i would have i would often get up and move around just start to imagine where i might move how i might move why i might move oh even if i didn't know that set just because it it sort of helped me to say okay, I'm going to be really close to the other character for this moment, but then I'm going to need some space. I'm going to need some space. I'm going to have to work something out. And so it helped putting some physical shape to it for me. Often that would help. And then you know what's happening. And then, yeah, even if we change the detail of the blocking, even if I'm not exactly right in my guesses as to what happens or someone does something different, at least I had in my

I connected it to some movement that I could adjust on the day a little bit. Right. That's also the director in you. Yeah, probably. Yeah, but I love that. Let's put it on his feet. Yeah. No, but I love that exercise.

I love that you do that because when you attach that physicality to it, it eliminates one thing that a lot of novice actors do, which is that talking head thing. All they do is just saying their lines and their body is totally stiff because they're so nervous, you know, so there's no physicality to it. And one thing that you mentioned, Martha, earlier, is that you talked about you have to listen to what that other character is saying that you're in that scene with. And that's something that a lot of novice actors don't do. They don't listen intently to what is being said to them, which is so important to make it look realistic, really.

I mean, how else would it look? How can you make it look real without really listening to what that actor is saying? Whereas some novice actors, they're just listening for that cue, that last word that springs them into their. Instead of being affected by it. Yeah. So they're completely dead until their line comes up. But then they're alive, and they say they're lying, and then they go back to dead again. It's just like, hey, so there's no inner life.

It doesn't make sense in a way. No. But then there's editing. Yes, that's true. But Robbie, what you said about rehearsing and moving around, I love that idea. I think I'll try that next time because in a play, and I'm very physical on stage, I mean, I have to know how this character moves. Yeah.

it's like vital to me and in a role I just played it was a woman who wanted to be younger than she was she was trying to you know hold on to that moment that had passed and so I made her very energetic you know and it was fun to do that but it helped me so much that choice you know that just was I am just bursting with vitality you know and it was it was fun but it just helped me so much that choice. I mean, she was energetic than I am. But that's a good, that's a good rehearsal or line learning choice. Yeah, it helped me because for me on the page, I definitely understand the idea of where is it on the page, but then I feel like I'm just stuck in my head. Being physical with it, allowed me to sort of connect to like an impulse,

and emotional impulse, you know. Right, because it's in your body. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's a question for both of you. Did either of you train with an improv group like Groundlings or Second City? Did either of you do that? And I'll start with Martha. I'm going to ask Robbie afterwards.

Well, one of my teachers at SC was Stephen Book, who was a viola spolen guy. Yeah. Improft technique. He had been sort of, anyway. And he taught a class in the city also. So when I left SC, I continued to study with Stephen because you could get on your feet all the time. You're on your feet and you're playing and you're loose. Yeah.

But it wasn't an improv group. Group, okay. But you did have training and exposure to it. Yeah, we did the Spolen Games. Right, yeah. And he kind of converted that to script work, though. Oh, sweet. I liked.

Yeah. Robbie, yes or no? Not really. But I love that you bring up Viola Spolens theater games. because I had done some of that in my teenage years when I got involved in this community theater. There was an acting teacher there and she used violas Boland. I ended up teaching when I was still a teenager, little kids, and I used the violas poland book. Yeah. It's so, it's awesome. It's just great. In fact, just a few years ago when I was in Atlanta, Georgia, I started a, uh,

briefly, I started an acting studio, open an acting studio and had some classes. And I was using Viola Spolent's theater games as some of our warm-up stuff, just to get people like loose and having fun and they're often such simple games. But I never did like a comedy improv or that kind of thing that's very popular now, UBC kind of stuff. I didn't ever did. But you had exposure to Spolen. And for those of our listeners who have no idea, I'm pretty sure it's V-I-O-L-L-A for viola and Spoland, S-P-O-L-I-N. She will, isn't it? Oh, is there two?

I think it's just one. I don't know. She was a, she was a Northwestern teacher. I think she taught at Northwestern University and that Chicago theater, you know, mafia back then was so strong. And Second City. Second City was. Yeah, Del Close and all those people.

Yeah, it was great. Hmm. Great. Great time. I have, um, one of the things. So just to acknowledge the strike again and why we're avoiding titles or shows. One thing I wanted to share with you, Martha, is that we did a special episode about the strike and we had Armand Shimmerman and we had Kitty Swink and we had Michelle Hurd,

who have all been on negotiating committees past or with Michelle Hurd currently. And she talked about, Michelle said something that just keeps sticking with me. She said, you know, we want to let the people know that, you know, let these studios know, especially, that the audience that pays money to see these shows, their relationship is with the actors. Their relationship is with the characters and the performances and the ways that they are moved or frightened or the ways that they laugh because of the actors, not because of what streaming service they use or, you know, not because of the franchise. even. It's the performance, the delivery system of all of these stories and franchises and all of it is the actors. And that relationship with fans like we have from the sci-fi show, we're so lucky. This relationship that the fans and the audience has with the actors is so deeply personal and intimate in so many ways. I guess, so I just want to put that on the table and say,

like, what is your experience as an actor with audiences? You mentioned getting applause in third grade in that relationship. But what have been some meaningful experiences that you've had with sort of connecting, feeling like this creative work is making a difference with the people that are experiencing it. Have you had any, you know, what's your experience? I have. I mean, most of the time, besides our fan base for what we've done together, the three of us,

which we have that face-to-face as often as we do, for other TV and film I've done, you know, I've had less of that. It's less immediate. But for plays that I've done, even a few I've done in the last few years. you know when an audience I have had people write me letters about the character that I played or you know and so you know

you're doing the right thing you know and I just you know that's what we've decided to do we are the storytellers you know it might not be our word but we embody the storytelling and And so I've had my share of grateful fans for things that I've done.

And it's it's really, it's reassuring, right? You think, oh, yeah, I am doing what I'm supposed to be doing. It's not just some weird narcissistic journey I'm on. Because I don't think it is. That's not what I'm interested in. Have you had any interaction or letter or email that you've read that has brought you to tears from a fan or moved you or moved you deeply moved you um yes because i um i played a i played a i did the show at the gary marshal theater a few years ago and it was

about the sculptor louise nevelson it's an albie play it's an edward alby play oh it's one of his last plays and it's called occupant and it's a tricky play it's very tricky unlike in his other plays, and it's mostly a one-woman show. There is another character who's interviewing her, but she's supposed to be dead, and she's come back from the day. It's a very strange setup. But Louise Neveson is a known entity or she was. And, you know, so I'm playing a real person, a life.

Right. And she was a complicated person, but an artist. She was an incredible, incredible artist. And I had more than one person write me letters, and they knew they had known her both of them had met her one of them worked with her and they said you captured her and i just was you know i mean i did i was able to watch a little bit of tv tv tv video of her yeah and i know i think one of the reasons i got the job or like i she had a very slight main accent because her family had emigrated from russia and ended up in

Maine okay yeah they had left you know yeah oh groms and anyway um and so but i just felt you know that's that's like the highest compliment you can get oh yeah paying a real person and people that know her and a person who was you know like i said complicated and um had made some really intense decisions in her life in order to be an artist yeah and she was not necessarily the world's great as mother right but um so that in particular was um was wonderful yeah yeah yeah that's got to be i saved those letters yeah i bet you did it's got to be very satisfying to because you you sort of brought this person back to life i said they're passed away this person correct yes yes yeah so you brought them back to life for people that

knew her. What a magical experience that is. Right. And you never think you're actually going to be able to do that. I mean, that's a huge. I mean, luckily for me, well, she was very well known in her time. And then after her death, there was this terrible legal case about her artwork. And for decades, her work could not be bought, sold, or shown. Wow. Because of a dispute over the estate. Yeah. Yeah. There's actually a sculpture park in New York. Eric City that she built that's named after her. She got the highest, you know, the Presidential Medal of Freedom back in the 70s. Yeah, you know, we don't.

Yeah. And she, so it's really fascinating how if your art isn't there and people aren't continually reimagining it, how you suddenly, you know, there was a certain celebrity she had. Anyway, so I felt that I didn't have to, you know, not everybody knew who she was. So I couldn't. But I was just, yeah, grateful that I captured something. Definitely. That's awesome.

Thank you for that story. Appreciate it. Yeah. Is there anything else about the creative process? Are there any, like, habits that you have just for creativity for yourself in general to get in touch with? Is there journaling? Creative juices flowing. Yeah.

Yeah. Anything that gets your creative juices flowing that you practice kind of pretty. regularly? I do meditate. Not as much as I'd like to. Yeah. Not as that I do. And I find it's such a, I mean, it's one of those things, right?

You never regret it. You never regret taking the time to do that. Creative process-wise, I go to a lot of different kinds of performance. I really believe in experiencing it for myself. So I can be moved by other kinds of. Art, music. I go to a lot of music. I go from everything from classical music to rock and roll to whatever. I go to the theater. I go to the movies. I love to seek out a small movie that nobody's heard of or whatever. I read a lot of reviews so that I can find a movie that I will enrich my life and my imagination. So I love being moved. I'm a great audience member. Do you know what I mean? I am there to have that experience. I don't come necessarily. necessarily, with my critics' mind, front and center, I want to have, I want to be moved. And I feel that way about even watching television, you know, because television, we are in kind

of an old golden age of it, in some instances. Although I think the sitcoms of the 70s are also a golden age. I miss the old multi-cams. I really do. Very comforting. Maybe it's a generational thing, I don't know. When you go on these little excursions to watch bands or listen to music or go see a movie. And I include sports in that.

Okay, sports as well. I include sports in that. Are you doing this with your friends or solo? What do you, what is your, what's, I do it mostly with someone else or friends, family, you know, but I do it solo too. Okay. I mean, I love going to the movies by myself in the middle of the day. Yeah. Well, I'm envious.

and I want to join you. I want to join you. Yeah, when I'm in town, I want to go listen to something or go watch a movie with you. Yeah, yeah. Why not? That'd be fun.

Okay. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. We always love having you here, Martha. Thank you so much. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material

and a little bit more of Martha. Yeah. Thanks, Martha. Thank you. I love being here. Thanks for having you. I don't know.