The Delta Flyers - Mortal Coil

Episode Date: November 8, 2021

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch & recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Mortal Coil. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars. Joining Garrett and Robbie this week is Eric Kau, who purchased a co-hosting with The Delta Flyers perk from the VOY Doc crowdfunding campaign. Mortal Coil:Neelix questions the purpose of his life when Seven of Nine "reactivates" him following a fatal accident.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill, & our Post Producer Jessey MillerAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, & Brannon BragaAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Becca Stillo, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Mike Devlin, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey, Lucas Shuck, Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Joshua McHenry, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, AJ Freeburg, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Barbara S., Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, John Mann, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Melissa Lau, Tae Phoenix, Nicole Anne Toma, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Paul Young, and Elly PostAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, James Amey, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Ann Harding, Laura Swanson, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, James Cottrell, Jenna Appleton, Jason Potvin, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Brian Roman, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Amy Tudor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Louise Storer, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Scott J. Mark, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Joseph Lanning, Megan Moore, Melissa A. Nathan, Captain Jak Greymoon, David Wei Liu, David J Manske, Roxane Ray, Bronwen Duffield, & Red WizardThank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager. Your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Hello, Robbie. Well, hello, sir, and our special guest host, Eric Cow. Eric, welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's an honor. Like I told you when I got on, I was like, it's my dream come true, and I can leave now. Well, you can't leave because we've got to do the whole episode recap, so I can't wait

to hear your thoughts. And I expect that you will know this episode even better than Garrett or I. You can correct us on all the things we can't remember or we get wrong. So basically, Eric, you are the ship's computer. So we'll just ask you. We'll say computer and we'll say something and we'll ask a question and you can just answer. I just want to say, first of all, that this is the very first time that we've had another host join us. And Eric is the winning bid on the Star Trek Voyager documentary.

What would you call it the different, were they prizes? It's like Kickstarter. Yeah, like Kickstarter benefits. Benefits. There you go. Exactly. So Eric was the winning bidder on the Kickstarter for the Voyager documentary, and hence he is our co-host for the Delta Flyers. And I just want to say, you spell your name, K-A-U. This is the second time I've met somebody with that last name. The first time is the actor Archie Cal. Now he pronounces his name. He spells it K-A-O. You spell it K-A-U. Now he pronounces it, the very, very westernized and non-Chinese way. He says KEO. Really? Yes. Do you think it was westernized, though? Is that would, I mean, it happens all the time in the, you know, in the U.S. and or with, I guess, you know, immigrants, immigration generally, like names get changed. I'll tell you what it is. He was raised by a Chinese mother. His father, his birth father is

Chinese as well, but that divorce happened fairly early. So he was raised by a Caucasian stepfather. So his pronunciation, his Mandarin Chinese is horrible. He would call me, you're my, and Eric, you'll know this. In Chinese, big brother is Daegh, okay? So instead of Daegu, he would say, hey, Daegu, which is big dog instead of big brother, right? So clearly, in his own pronunciation of his own name, he's Archie Keio, which is like, no, no, no. And if you recall, he was one of the tech guys on CSI. the Asian guy on CSI in the early seasons, and he's done quite a few things now.

But the good thing, Eric, you are a speaker of Mandarin Chinese. I can add a little wrinkle to that Cal, K-O thing. Actually, my father is one of six brothers who immigrated here from Taiwan. I think we have very similar cultural heritage, but five brothers spell a K-A-O and say K-O, and I'm the only, my father was the only one. So he was the first to come to this country. So I think the other brothers saw that And they're like, I don't think that's the way to translate it

And then I'm left with KAU So that adds to the wrinkle to you were discussing. That does that a wrinkle. There you go. Huh. Funny. Maybe that sounds like a common adaptation that people made. And Eric, I'm wondering, is one of your uncles actually Archie's dad?

Is that possible? You know, I don't think so. But we're probably related. All right. I think you and I are probably related. Probably, yeah. Now, just to say, the correct way to say it in Mandarin Chinese is not even a K sound. It's a G sound.

It's Gaul. Gaul is how you say the last name instead of cow. Really? Yes, that is the correct pronunciation of Gaul. I hope we never made that mistake as a Starfleet vessel traveling in the Delta Quadron. I hope we did not misrecord the names of some of the alien species we encountered. I hope we, you know. I hope we phonetically.

What if we did? What if somewhere along the way, our universal translator got it wrong. Hey. And we were calling the Zindi the wrong name or something. Right. Let's bring up something that was in our show. What if they were the Shindy? Let's say the Herod.

You just brought up Enterprise aliens. How about Horogen? If the Herogen were actually the Harogin, and we call them Horogen, what the heck, right? Yeah. You got to be fair. We got to be here. That's the hunter species that we come across later, which you probably don't remember at all, Robbie, right?

Yeah, so what if it was the coupons or the coupons? And we call them the caissons. But they were really the coupons or something. Are the coupons? Yeah, maybe. I just feel like we should go back and make sure we did this correctly. Are phonetically correct? That would have been an interesting story, though.

Speaking of Star Trek and how we sort of take these sci-fi stories and deal with real life things. things. That would have been interesting to deal with sort of the, you know, Anglicization, Anglicization. Is it classification or Cization? Anglicization. Let's go with that. Let's go with that. But you know what I'm saying. Like the adaptation or misinterpretation of language and things like that would have been an interesting Star Trek episode to see as Starfleet kind of dealt with something, how that misnaming or changing, you know, to fit whatever's easy for us. Yeah. Might have had an impact on species that we encounter. That would have been an interesting story. And also the universal translator is a piece of technology, and technology can be faulty.

It could have not functioned in translating somebody's name, right? And Kazan, maybe were the Cazons or the Coupons. I like the coupons. You like coupons? Yeah. We should have met somebody called the coupon. The coupon ogla and the coupon. I did bring up Zindi, the Enterprise Airlines, by the way.

I was just, I don't know why I would do that. I couldn't think of a single alien species that we encountered in seven years. Wow. I was my computer fritzed in my brain, and that was the first alien that came to mind. So that's what you get. You know what? It also makes, Robbie, it makes sense because you directed Enterprise. And directing Enterprise, you're kind of familiar with the Zindy, right?

Yes. All right. So I'll go to back to you. And on resident alien, we talk about the grays a lot. Oh. Yeah, which are real alien. by the way. They are. They are actual aliens.

Back to our show. All right, Eric. So we're going to, we're going to go watch this. What episode are we watching this weekend? We are watching Mortal Coil. All right. Let's go watch this. Take your notes, Eric. Yes, ma'am. We're going to need you.

Yes, ma'am. Yeah, he just, yes maimmed it. There you go. See, he's already with the team. Yes, we love your enthusiasm, Eric. Thank you so much for being here. All right. Eric, Robbie and I go watch this.

Everyone go take a break, and we will be right back. Hello, everyone. We are back from watching Mortal Coil. Yes, we are. Wow. I just got to say, this was my favorite episode of our show that I have seen yet. What?

Yes. Well, okay, elaborate. Hands down, this was my favorite one. I think the content, the story was emotionally engaging. I think our entire cast is involved in one way or another. I think Johnny Phillips, aka Ethan Phillips, Johnny's performance was one of the best on our show ever, honestly. The highs and the lows that he hit, the, I just, I thought this was, uh, uh, uh, uh, we can jump to, you know, scores on this, but I'm going to tell you right now, I give this a 10 out

of 10. I, man. Yep. How much of your 10 out of 10 comes from the fact that Johnny is one of your favorite voyage is one of my favorite human beings aside from. That's my point. I feel like it's a little bit. Maybe.

Maybe. I do. I do. I would never give this a 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. I wouldn't even give this a 9 out of 10. I would say it's a good episode, but I'm not going to, it's a thought-provoking episode, but I'm not going to go where you're going.

I go 10 out of 10 because of all of that, I say Alan Craker directed. I think one of his best episodes visually. He's got staging that keeps the camera moving and tells the story unfolds. I thought, you know, Marvin Rush did a beautiful job of lensing the show, Billy Pete's lighting. We can talk about the lighting of this episode. and the forest and all of these spots, the Vision Quest he goes on and how that was conceived and executed.

There was not a clunker moment in this episode. And I feel like almost every episode we do has some clunkers, but I'm just like, that's okay, I'm still into it. Some episodes have more than one clunker. This one had zero clunkers, not one department failed. How many stars are you going to give this out of 10, zero to 10, zero being absolutely garbage,

10 being the best of all time? What will you give this episode, Eric? I was thinking about a seven and a half to eight. I thought Ethan was 10, definitely a 10. You know, you guys had the shoot with you guys featuring that episode. This is definitely Ethan's episode, really impressed. Oh, yeah. Yeah, agreed.

Okay, okay. All right, I'm going to give it a seven. I'll give it a seven out of ten. Oh, my God, you guys. It's not that I don't love. It's not even about that. I don't love, Johnny. We'll get into it.

get into it. The moments with seven of nine were like phenomenal. Like I felt like I had more empathy for her character in this episode, even though she didn't have the most real estate. Like, okay. I almost want to ask, I almost want to ask, did you die and come back to life while you were watching this? I literally, I will say, I literally cried in this watching this episode. I'm a cryer generally if you hit certain like buttons for me. But when I've never seen you cry though. Not on not watching this show. Not watching Voyager. I've never. I've gotten close like, oh, that felt really emotional. This got me when when the moment with Naomi needs you to go to sleep and he's got to decide whether to push this button or not. I was like, that hit me. I don't know.

Wow. See where I'm at on this. I see. No, you're 10 out of 10. You are. You are. you were affected by this big time. Okay. Well, let's jump right into it. Let's give our poetry synopsis. Let's start with the haiku as we always do. So here is my haiku for mortal coil. Neelix killed by Bolt. Borg tech brings him back to life. Duty gives him hope. Interesting. Interesting. I like it. But as you can see, I am so deep. invest in this episode at this point. You really are. I'm shocked.

I know. I don't even know what to say. I feel like my limerick won't do this episode justice because I'm not a professional poet as we have on social media. Let's not even talk about that anymore. Let's not bring that up. I just do my best. You know what? We don't need to validate or justify anything any longer.

We've already addressed it once. We'll never speak about us not being professional poets. Because I think we're doing a darn good job. We're root and tootin good, okay? Thank you. I like that. I'm a root and tootin poet. There you go.

Okay, here we go with the limerick for mortal coil. Neelix died and then later was revived. His life in the great forest was deprived. He tries a bundle. Beliefs begin to crumble from friends he learns why he survived. Okay. Like I said, I'm a root and tootin poet. Yeah. Yeah, that's that is, that's a good limerick. And I will say our limerick and haikus are not 10 out of 10 for this episode, like you've given this, but they're still good.

Let's see, because Eric has joined our poetry synopsis. Yes, he has. Eric has one. Eric. So let me qualify this. This is so out of my wheelhouse that I can't even tell you. So I've heard in the past that you have relied or leaned on significant others to help you. So my wife likes to write haiku. So she wrote a haiku. Sweet. I had a friend who is a big Star Trek Voyager. Very excited. Her name is Liz Lockman.

She is a writer and she has two limericks that I think you'll find enjoyable. Oh my God. I love it. Just humor me and I got a good reader and all that stuff too. No worries. I'm a professional. Eric, let's start with the haiku first. The haiku from my wife.

Neelix died on quest, bought back to life in turmoil, saved by new meaning. Oh, that's quite poetic. I do like that. That's better than my haiku. Okay. And now you have two limericks from your friend? Two limericks. And I couldn't choose. So, can you read about? I love a limerick. Let's hear him. At death ray leaves Neelix quite shaken, but leaf in his heaven is breaking. But seven of nine arrives just in time and our nanoprobes get him back bacon. I like it. Okay. Anytime we can work getting baked into this show, I'm all about it.

All right. All right. The second one is, when Neelix returns from the dead, it screws with his orange furry head. With help from the crew, he's reborn on you, and he helps put Naomi to bed. Oh, look at that. That is nice. These are short and sweet, simple, and to the point, I love them.

I love them. They're good. They're good. Thank you. Thank you, Eric and team and significant other. And who's the person who came up with the Limericks? What's your friend's name? Oh, Liz Lachman.

Liz Lockman. Yeah. Thank you, Liz. Nice, Liz. And what is your wife's first name? Elise. E-L-I-Z. Yeah.

Okay, Elise. Elise, thank you for your haiku. It was better than mine. And the limericks were more to the point. We can never have any more guest poets because it just points out. You know what? Root and Tootin skills. I don't know.

I almost feel like we just bring in Eric and have him recite his wife and Liz Lachman's literary. Have a professional poet show up every week. Well, we already have people right here, his wife and Liz Lachman, who's a professional You guys have made some really good limericks and hikus. Don't sell yourself short. You've done some of extra job. Thank you, Eric.

Yes, I've heard them. All righty. Okay, so this episode is directed by Alan Craker. Alan Craker, 10 out of 10? Yes, written by our good friend. Brian Fuller. So we have a Brian Fuller episode directed by Alan. And I agree. Alan did a great job directed this. Alan did a great job. Brian did a great job on writing this story. I just want to pause for a minute and talk about this story and what I did a little research after while I was getting my

Starbucks. So this story was originally, I guess, pitched by, and I don't, I didn't write her name down, but some outside writer had pitched a story about an, I think, an alien that we meet who's kind of obsessed with death and dying and so keeps tricking the doctor. The original pitch on this was something like this alien keeps tricking the doctor into killing him and then seven revived him or something. There was some other pitch on this, but they were like, I guess the network was like, we don't want to do a whole obsessed with suicide fetish kind of story. But they were like, there's something here. And then I think they pitched in the writer's room some version of Chocote dying and using his indigenous traditions, the Akuna, as sort of a way to investigate

his own death experience. Right. But then there was some sensitivity to indigenous traditions. They felt like we don't want to, that's probably not a story we want to tell either because of sensitivity to Native American indigenous traditions, which I respect and applaud. And so then eventually they came around to the. this Neelick story of that's how this story developed, which I thought was an interesting development.

And I think Brian Fuller had actually written half of that original pitch idea. And something I read, it was like, Brandon called him on the weekend and said, stop writing. He had half the script written already. Like stop writing, we're not gonna do this alien obsessed with suicide stories. So I just thought that was an interesting way

that, you know, behind the scenes that these stories develop. And what we end up with sometimes is very different than the original idea, which I just wanna point out sometimes we end up with not the greatest episodes. And they may have started as a great idea, but there is a process.

There's network notes and studio notes and our own internal process with the writers that will change and these stories evolves. There's a convoluted path when it comes to the evolution of a story idea. It goes up and down, sideways and forwards and backwards. And sometimes it turns out really great, sometimes not so great. Yeah, here we go. But this was a 10 out of 10. I don't know if I mentioned that. This is 10 out of 10. Yeah,

I don't think you said that before. Really? 10 out of 10? That's pretty good. Okay. Now, I just want to, let's talk about, this is something we were going to talk about earlier. Let's talk about our shirts that we're wearing. For those of you who are listening, you're not seeing what's going on. So we're going to talk, well, you know this one. everyone knows. This is our ChronoWorks shirt here. Our new one, yes, from our two-parter. Robbie is wearing our Yes, ma'am shirt right there. And Eric, what do you have on? Show us your shirt. You have a, basically- That's a cool shirt. Yeah, so describe to us what's going on with that shirt. So this is in Titmouse, which is the animation studio that does Star Trek Lord decks. They put out a T-shirt for each of the episodes. And knowing that I was going to be,

on this episode, I thought the only way I could honor you guys was to have the t-shirt from we'll all have Tom Paris, which was season two, episode three. Now, unfortunately, they didn't have Tom on the shirt, but they have Dr. Tana, which is the other storyline that goes through in that episode. And she's trying to look for an heirloom to scratch, the box to scratch. So that's what it is. But that's where my t-shirt comes from. Nice shirt. I like that. We do like that. Thank you for... you know, being part of the team here and wearing a shirt, you know, a themed shirt. We love it. Yeah. I might have to get my Delta Flyers sweatshirt on in a bit.

Yeah, there you go. This is the new yes ma'am shirt. Yes. Which is obviously Tom Perez's catchphrase. By the way, Garrett, in this episode, Mortal Coil, you have a moment where I think you were doing a Tom Paris impersonation. Maybe unconsciously, but your line reading will get to the scene. I was like, oh, I can't wait. Was he doing Tom Paris there? It's good. I can't wait. You have it in your notes? You're not going to forget. I do have it in my notes. Okay, all right. Let's jump right into this analysis. We start off in the mess hall. We see Harry. Yep. And Harry is, I guess, trying to get his operations report done on his pad-da-da-da. And Harry has some interaction with Nelix who brings him some coffee. And I just have to say, I am not a coffee drinker because it tears

my stomach apart. It just, I can't take any coffee. It's just the worst thing for my body. Did they pour you coffee? Was it actual coffee that they would pour? I think it was. Yeah. I think it was. And I had to pretend like it was so good. And I love how, I don't have a lot of lines in this. No, I think you looped this scene, actually. I feel like this scene was looped, because I felt like Johnny was looped, and you were looped, and it wasn't until we got up to the Chocote moment when Robert came in, Beltran, that it went to the real sound. It just felt weird the beginning of this to me.

Yeah, and what I marked down in my notes is that Harry doesn't have a lot of lines. He doesn't have a lot of lines in here, but the lines he does have, there's a lot of peas in there as in potent stuff that potent stuff and uh that was the impersonation of that was the tom was that oh was that the one when i said potent stuff when yes when neelix walks by and you go potent stuff oh it was totally tom pair wow go listen to it you get the little upward inflection i i have to check that out again yeah and then later yeah kind of breathy kind of yeah kind of breathy. And you know what? That makes sense because Harry Tangs out with Tom so much that it's very feasible. Friends do take on the other persons. Yes, I totally agree with that. Later in that dream

sequence, I have another P word where what did I say? I can't even remember now. It's not possible or something like that. So possible comes up. So I almost felt like I should have had trouble with your peas in this episode. No, I was just saying the P words are very prevalent in Harry's lines in this episode, so much to the fact that I almost felt like, well, Harry should have said the pizza line with the P. It should have been all P's all. Only P lines for Harry this episode. That is it. So we go on and after Neelix speaks with Harry for a little bit, we now see Chikote. Chikote comes up to Neelix to request his assistance in retrieving some protomatter from a nebula. And Neelix very eagerly agrees to join this quick away mission. And that is our opening scene for this episode of Morta Coil.

And we also see Seven come back into the kitchen. And she says she doesn't like this food. She didn't like the smell of it. It was pungent. He said that, you know, it's the talaxian spices. It's supposed to be that these nutritional. It was something funny that she said, these nutritional supplements are pungent or something like that. Yeah, it was funny. And he says something about Prickson. He says Thursday night is that. the first day of Prickson to seven. And he says, we celebrated on Voyager every year. We celebrate the Talaxian holiday. And I was like, wait a minute. I don't remember us ever having an episode where we celebrated Prickson. So, you know, maybe it happened off camera or something, but I did

feel a little bit like. It's assumed. It's assumed. And there is a reference that Janeway makes a reference later saying, please don't make this one drink as powerful as it was last Prickson. really messed with me or something, right? So there is references to the fact that Prickson celebration has already happened, but clearly this is the very first time that we see anything about Prickson. Yeah, it seems like a big deal here. And I don't ever remember if we even referenced Prickson, much less showed any celebration. So sometimes that in these sort of episodic stories where they only write stories that are self-contained, these kinds of serialized stories where we could build up to this moment by laying in the foundations of

seeing Prickson and season two. Because that was one thing about the story that for me was a bit of a miss isn't the right word, but I just feel like it could have been better is the idea of the forest that Neelix, it's so fundamentally important in this episode that when he dies, there is no forest, that I wish that had been set up with his character. in earlier episodes, that he believes in this, he's going to see his sister again in this forest. I don't ever remember him mentioning this. I don't ever remember a celebrating Prickson, but in this episode, it's critical that those things be important. You know what I mean?

So in a serialized show, you could have these things building and building and building so they pay off anyway. Okay. And now we also see Nancy Hauer out one of our Curry. She calls and says, Hey, Neelix, come put, put Naomi to sleep. She's, she needs. you to sleep. Yeah, we hear her. Excuse me. We don't see her, right? We hear her. So Samantha Wildman, she asked Neelix, please come help put Naomi to sleep. Naomi is played by Brooke Stevens in this episode, but not in any episode after this. So Brooke Stevens, I looked her up on IMDB. She has two other credits, ER and one other show all around the same time. So clearly, this is a child actor, a kid actor who acted in a few things and was done. You know, we don't know whatever.

happened after that. Not sure. I try to do some searches to see where she was. There's another Brooke Stevens in Georgia. Maybe that's her now. I don't know. It's hard to tell. But it's interesting to note that she was, you know, that character, Naomi Wildman, was originally played by someone else. She was adorable, by the way, this little girl. Great job. She did a great job. But it's definitely not the actor that we know to fill the role later after this episode. So he's checking her quarter for monsters. He's the only one that can put her to sleep. By the way, I love seeing Ethan Phillips, who we've already said, is one of my favorite humans in the world, but I love seeing him with a kid.

It brings out something really wonderful in Neelix and in the actor that I think is grounding. In a weird way, it's sort of calming for Neelix. Like, a kid is good for Neelix. In the opening scene in the mess hall and also in Naomi Wildman's bedside, Eric, any notes on the intro and the second scene? Yeah, actually, I was going to have. it's not like a one shot like West Wing, but the first scene is pretty, you know,

at the very beginning you see Chocote in the background and he times it over to walk over. And then as Harry is walking out, you see him throw a fruit in the air and catch it and walk out. I was just interested to see like how that plays. Do you know you're going to do loop it at the end or how do you time it out?

Because maybe Robbie knows through his directing or just kind of give me a background on that. would say it's interesting that you noticed that. And I would say that's a result of Alan Greaker, the director of this episode. He was notorious for these kind of continuous shots where he would, he loved not cutting and just doing coverage. He loved staging shots where the camera sort of moves over here and catches a line. Then this actor moves over here. That brings us to another actor. So he was very skilled and really good at staging scenes in this way where the shot would just continue through. So us as actors, we didn't necessarily plan it out, but we were always game for working with

Alan on these kinds of scenes and doing what he suggested or if he just said, hey, we want to keep this going. We knew how to wait for our opportunity to get up and throw a line in the background. It was great. That was why it was fun working with Alan that director. Yeah. There's a great rhythm to that scene, you know, and an ebb and flow. And thank you, Eric, thank you for bringing up the whole Harry picks up that piece of fruit. Because, you know, I was told to go grab fruit, but that was my little add in where I toss it up and catch it like that. You know, I always try to do a little something flourishy or not necessarily flourishy, but something that was a little bit different than norm, you know, not just go grab it and leave, but do something more character-based,

you know, maybe Harry likes to do that thing where he flicks it up like that. The only other note I had if you might idea is apparently and I was reading I think probably in the uh it's a memory alpha this is the first episode where Naomi is named Naomi it's oh wow yeah supposedly so wow I didn't check the previous episodes but I know I would have assumed that we would have said that before but wow that's cool huh I did not know that I did not either all right we go into Naomi's quarters and Neelix is checking for monsters and I I think one of the reasons Naomi has trouble sleeping is that terrifying Lama rocking horse alien monster in her room, like, what did you call out of that thing?

It's a Lama alien rocking horse monster. What? Did you see that? Are you talking about her stuffed animal, which looked like a headless stuffed animal? No, there's like, no, there's a rocking horse in the corner about, Eric. I actually wrote that down. I go, that's pretty scary. I did not see that.

It's not very child-friendly either. No, it's not. It's point. It's like sharp ears. It's, yeah, get rid of that thing and she'll sleep fine. Okay. Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate. I'm going to say she's half human and half Qatarian. So that rocking horse, as well as that stuffed animal, or clearly Katarian children's toys and rockings. All right. Whatever. It's given her nightmares. Just get rid of that thing and Neelich can relax. He doesn't have to do this. But Neelix tells her all about the Great Forest, which is kind of, like heaven, like where everybody's going to be happy and you're going to see people that

protect you in life. And so it's a very comforting story. I already wrote down. I feel like this is Johnny's best performance in the series. Already, I'm just going, wow, this is great. But by the way, I also wrote down, they never talked about this black fort. If this is so meaningful to him, if this is the thing that has kept him going for the last 11 years, I wish we had talked about the great forest in this idea, because it just becomes, episodically the thing that is the story driver. You just called it the Black Forest for a second instead of the Great Forest. Oh, I did?

So it's in Germany somewhere. Yeah, so clearly everyone, everyone, this is the Talaxian, you know, Valhalla is in Germany. It's the black forest. Okay. Okay. Eric, did you have any thoughts on this scene? No, I mean, I'd say the same thing. I wrote, what is that horse toy?

Exactly. he's already scary is yeah whatever all right all right we go to cargo bay cargo bay seven is regenerating neelix comes in he's he's looking for a cylinder to go to this nebulance and he's talking to the cylinder he's like here cylinder cylinder where'd you go that's the weirdest but cool I loved it it was fun but and then seven goes you are a peculiar creature neelix which I love that then he responds thanks I think And doesn't he say something, would he, like, have a nice regeneration cycle or something like that. It was very funny.

It was a cute scene. But again, they're setting up in the elix as this lovable, you know, important person. Like, you know, he's a real connector on our ship. I loved Sevens when she talks about the Cazon. And she says, the Cazon were unworthy of assimilation. Why assimilate a species that would detract from perfection? Which I feel like was a shot at the writers going. the Kazon were a big mistake.

I think they had a lot of shame about the Kazon for a few years. It just did not work that. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Eric, did you have any cargo bay thoughts? The Borg are apparently selective. Yeah. I thought

they just took everybody, but even the Borg rejected the Kazon. Nobody likes the Kazon. Oh my gosh. Poor Kazon. Okay. are we moving on to the shuttle scene? Is that right? Yeah. So the next thing that happens is the shuttle

has a flyby in space, which I just made a note. It was a cool space shot. I love the nebula felt very three-dimensional and I love the colors and just look cool. And we go in the shuttle. And Neelix and Paris are kind of arguing about pizza, which I loved. And I remembered this, by the way. As soon as the first line came up, I was like, I remember learning this this pizza thing, like it brought back memories of that storyline, that runner of making pizza and trying to teach Neelix how to make pizza. That was fun. Now we're at the nebula and in the midst of transporting this protomatter into this cylinder, all of a sudden it starts igniting the gases in the nebula, I'm guessing. And, you know, that bolt of energy, I guess it goes right through

the, through the windshield or the windshield and goes right into Neelix. And he's the his face. Yes, but all I could, my notes here is that that cylinder to me was like a football. Like he's carrying, like he was a running backer or wide receiver and he got to do so hard. Always turn this into a football conversation. Listen to me. Listen to me. Neelix is an amazing football player because he gets knocked out. Yeah. Not only does get knocked out. He gets killed by the bolt of energy, but yet he still holds on to the rock. He's still holding on to that cylinder slash football when he falls down onto the ground. By the way, when the double falls back, the double's head was turned to the left. But when they did the close-up on Nelux, it was turned this way so you could see the makeup.

I was like, uh, continuity. Continuity problem. So the stunt double had the head turned the different way. Yeah, the stunt doubles always try to fall with their face away from camera so you don't see them. But it probably wouldn't have mattered in this one because it's makeup. But I will say this stunt double, was better than the stunt double that the episode where seven of nine is assimilating Nelix and throws him on the floor, that guy was 5'10, you know, whereas Ethan Phillips is 5'6

or whatever Heidi is, right? So this stunt double was much closer to the actual dimensions of Johnny Ethan Phillips. Agreed. So I would say, good job in casting, but bad in that continuity was a little ruined on that one. But he falls down and Paris runs over and says he's dead. And that was shocking to me. And I was very happy with Paris's performance, aka me. I was really happy in that with the way I played that scene.

I thought it was grounded and just it was good. I thought it was moving that moment. And I made a note here, this is a really long teaser. Like usually the scene before the credits, is, you know, a couple of minutes, tops or something. I felt like we had been in a bunch of scenes for like 10 minutes before we ever got to our opening credits. Before the credits, yeah.

Which is unusual, just an unusual detail. Yeah. Eric, any comments on the Neelik's death scene? I feel Paris is angst. It was a good job. Excellent. Oh, thank you. Look at that.

Look at that. Good job. Yeah, that's what I was saying. I think I feel like it was effective, that emotionally effective, that he was dead. When he was dead and the way that Paris, a.k.a. you know, me in that scene. I was proud of that. It felt good and grounded. I thought Beltran, Chukote, like that whole moment played really authentically, I thought. Good. Yeah. And then we go to credits. And then we go to sickbay. Seven and the doctor. And isn't

Janeway also in the very beginning here? Yes. I think, yeah. Well, I, you know, you're giving this a 10 out of 10. My biggest issue was how lightly Janeway took the death of Neelix. It just seemed really, and she was like, well, maybe we'll do the pricks and things. I mean, it just, it was really, I don't feel that it was connected. It felt like everybody gave up very quickly. It was very trite. It was like, oh, he's dead. All right.

Well, big deal. And that kind of bothered me. I was like, wait a minute. If he's such a family member, why isn't somebody crying right now? Why isn't somebody more devastated by this? The doctor said he had been dead for 18 hours, right? Yeah. So from wherever we were in that shuttle in the nebula, it took us 18 hours to come back,

to get analyzed, to analyze everything. That's a little bump for me. Yeah. But I think it was their way of trying to say, this didn't just happen a minute ago. It's been 18 hours. The doctor has tried everything. Yeah. You know, people do die on our ship.

It's not like it's impossible. No, that's true. But it just, again, it seemed a little too. Yeah, it felt like in our story, we went right to acceptance. Yeah, it's like, okay, he's dead. You know, usually Janeway will fight harder for things like this. Yeah, definitely. I agree.

That bugged me. Well, we had to get to this other story. So wouldn't that go 9.7? No, 10, because of that. I was along for the ride, 18 hours. It tried for 18 hours. Okay. And then it's seven who comes up with the miraculous decision to use. She can revive him. Yeah. She can revive him. That clearly this has happened in the Borg world where people have been revived up to 72 hours after their death. So drones have been reactivated.

Drones have been brought back to life. And everyone's shocked by this, especially the doctor, that he can't believe this is even possible. And that's when Janeway says, give it a shot. Why not? This bumped me a little, I guess, because the doctor seemed to be saying, like, no, let's not try this. And I'm like, dude, you've tried everything. Like, you should be the one going, yes, let's keep trying every scientific thing. Like, why is he fighting seven right here? But it's basically like a blood transfusion with her nanoprobes and that's going to bring him back. The nanopropes are being used to repair the necrotized tissue. That's the whole point of using these nanoprobes.

Go ahead. No, I thought it was good. I thought Janeway did bring him. bring up this idea that he may not be the same. Like even if, you know, she kind of cautions everyone in the room, like even if Neelix is revived, you know, he may not be the same. Like, there may be issues. So I thought that was a nice detail that she's, you know, she's aware of this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Eric, what did you, any thoughts on the, you know, sick pay? Well, so I'm in the medical field for my profession. And I would say is every crew member probably should have a DNR order already. So, or

and DNR plus 18 hours after your dead order, right? So that it would have been, if you had a DNR order, that's it, we're done. And I would have ended meelix in the episode. Eric, Eric, in layman's terms, explain what a DNR order is, please. Do not resuscitate order. You know, sometimes it's part of a living will and sometimes as patients, we have those so we know what to do. But obviously, I'm not thinking of that.

but I other just in a practical manner but yeah but you're right every every crew member would have had some medical record that has a DNR type statement whether do not resuscitate or yes resuscitate and so who knows what neelix is I'm glad they did yes yes exactly hey Garrett have you been traveling this summer oh my gosh so much already I don't always travel but this summer's been insane trip after trip you've been doing your impersonation of me yes You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill.

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So this year, skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three-month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash TDF. That's mintmobile.com slash TDF. Up front payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month. Limited time new customer offer for first three months only. speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra see mint mobile for details we go to the surgery a little time passes and seven is running the show in this scene i wrote down um i love the makeup on neelux i thought his death makeup looked really cool it looked very authentic

yeah it was really well done eric agreed from the medical field he looked pretty dead yeah he looked and basically i only had two notes in here one was seven is running the show and it works. And my immediate thought is, why didn't we just make seven the doctor? Like, if she was good, what the... Sorry, Picardo, your program is deleted.

We got seven now. She can bring people back. So what are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that I'm going to be the nurse from now on? Okay, fine. She's running the show. She just revived a dead guy. Like, how much more do you have to do to get the job?

But, but, yeah, we still have the doctor. I'm glad we did. So then that would be seven would be the doctor. The doctor would be nurse number one. Exactly. You would be nurse number two. I could retire from nursing, which I would be fine with me. I did think she was kind of cocky at the end.

She sort of had like a, you know what? The doctor, yes. This is what every Star Trek doctor does? I wrote the same note. After performing her medical procedures, she was so, she had that same smug doctor reaction you know what happens yes i'm the best yes i'm the best i'm

seven of nine and i'm speaking like the doctor yeah yeah she did the little hmm at the end so i wrote the same thing eric any thoughts on this procedure and and the authenticity of it or since you're in the medical work org technology is awesome it's awesome right do a lot of things yeah uh that's funny so uh Another time passage, and Neelix hears that he was dead, and he says, I'm stunned, I'm amazed, grateful, he says. You can see that he's got a lot of fear about these nanoprobes as soon as he hears that. I wasn't sure story-wise what he was playing, but clearly Johnny Phillips was playing sort of this shock and stunned kind of feeling as he woke up and was hearing what was going on. But I love that how that set up when he finally has a private moment, you realize it wasn't there.

the forest wasn't there like that's what he's already playing this year he's already playing that now yeah which i thought was really great we have the scene in the corridor with neelix and janeway yeah doing the walk and talk um he brings up prixon and she's what she's trying to tell him just take it easy yeah he's like i want to go back to work and we got prixon on thursday and yeah and then he goes in his quarters and he talks about alexia yeah and he's looking at the sculpture of the guiding tree which we've never seen before that no we have not seen this is what i mean like if we had seen him in his quarters meditating to this tree or something ever, I would be like, oh, I get it, but it just sort of appears.

Like, the most important thing in his life that gives him hope for the future is this thing that we've never seen. Yeah, that little model of that guiding tree, it almost reminded me of some of the Hindu type of statues that you see. And I was just making that note. But his line is, Elyxia, Elexia, why weren't you there? And now we know. now we know this is this is what's really weighing on his mind like this is his whole life all his all his

beliefs are based on this belief of talaxian afterlife going to the great forest the guiding tree guides you to the point where the gathering happens the gathering is all of your passed away relatives they're all going to be there to greet you and you know not unlike human thoughts about the afterlife we talk about the white tunnel the tunnel of light all the dead relatives you know welcoming you into the afterlife, and similar with the Telaxian beliefs. And he's really going through a moment here, you know, in the realization that nothing happened. Very profound, yes. We go to the corridor again.

And now Seven and Tuvok have a question, have a conversation about death. They talk about death. And Seven says, well, you know, the Borg have never been afraid of death. The Borgs usually, even if a drone is retired or, you know, if a drone cannot be reactivated, the thoughts and the memories of that drone are always with the consciousness of the Borg. So it's immortal. All Borg are immortal in that right. So she's never had that fear of death.

And Tuvok now says, but now you're mortal, you know. And she replies, well, my memories in consciousness are still within. the Borg Collective. So even if I pass away, if my physical body passes, my, I will still continue to live in a way in my memories and my thoughts in the Borg Collective. So that was a nice conversation between the two of them. And again, another great scene with Seven and Tuvac. I love this scene. To me, the most important part of this scene was at the very end. So all of what you described happened. They had this conversation and Seven saying, I'm cool. I'm good because I'm immortal.

I'm part of this collective. And he says, well, but you're mortal now. And she's like, no, but I'm still part of that. And he goes, wow, then that must be a great relief to you. And her very last line in that close up when she goes, yes, it is. But you can see a real human experience of the acknowledgement of mortality. Yeah. Which again, 10 out of 10 in this episode, I had never seen a moment like that from Jerry Ryan.

our show. And it was just that last moment that to me was really cool, really cool. Eric, any thoughts on Neelix's quarters or the corridor scene with 7 and 2bubon? I just, I understand why Robbie likes it. These are scenes that are the additive is exponential. Does that make sense? I don't know. Yeah. No, it does. You know, because it really, that's a pretty moving scene. I agree. I agree. I agree. I thought the scene with Tuvok and 7. I connected in a human way to her character in a way I have not since she came on the show. That I really, you know, as big and flashy as the flashbacks of her childhood and all that, I wasn't moved or connected until this scene where I was like, oh, I can relate to like mortality and life and death.

And here's somebody kind of showing me a different point of view on it in a, in a course. cool sci-fi way, and I just thought it was great. 10 out of 10, 10 out of 10. You know my other, you know my other revelation right now? Not only is Johnny Ethan Phillips, someone who you admire and he's a good friend, but the other reason why you're 10 out of 10ing is because Georgia is number one. I think you're in such a good mood. You are just giving out extra numbers.

You're like, hey, hey, I'm going to throw it a 10 out of 10. Everybody wins. You get a car. You get a car. You've become Oprah. You have become Oprah right now. You're throwing out numbers and great reviews left and right because Georgia is unanimously voted at number one right now. Okay.

All right. Let's move on. Yeah, let's move on. Okay. We go to engineering Paris Chakote and Taurus are talking about analyzing what happened in this accident. And Chakote says he's created a simulation on the holodeck. And Torres also says that she's adjusted at the transporter beam so that it will not ignite the protomatter again. That's the other point.

That's right. Yeah. Neelik says he'd love to watch and see what happened because he doesn't remember. He doesn't really remember what happened. Right, right. So basically he goes into a simulation of the shuttle, the moment where this nebula sent out a lightning bolt and killed him and he watches his own death. This is so freaky.

This is the one point where I was thinking, oh, my gosh. To imagine, to think about the fact that you possibly. can watch your own death in a simulation like how I just that's such a it's truly an out of body experience when you're watching your own death I this is the one thing that I was like wow this is a wow moment for me in this dude this is a great episode like this is what a great sci-fi conceit to use science fiction yeah to explore a human mortal experience that that's to me what when our show is the best yeah when it hits these moments like this where you can kind of yourself in there and go whoa what if like this is a sci-fi version of that fantasy of of you know

kind of watching as you said like there's a lot of people have talked about these near-death experiences where they were out of body and watching seeing themselves from above here's the sci-fi version saying hey maybe we can do this someday maybe we can simulate these moments to where we can watch like mind-blowing anyway yeah so neelix sees this, and I thought it was really well done by Craker again, the freeze frames, the splits, all the way, the ways that he created that reality of being in this three-dimensional simulation in a way I thought was, was great. Agreed.

And Ethan's performance in here was great. I thought, it's a scene about his whole belief system being destroyed. Like, this is now where he sees, this is what happened. I died. I really died. There's no, like, my belief system didn't kick in. There was no forest. There was no... My belief system has been a myth for my entire life.

The great forest is a myth. There is no guiding tree. There's no gathering of ancestors. There's nothing. Nothing happens when a Talaxian dies. And this is huge, you know, to have to deal with this. And Chikote says something, it was a great line. He says, death is still the greatest mystery there is. I love that line. That was so relatable again. And how people have these, their deepest, most comfort. beliefs are so important to people, you know, that's, that's relatable. We all have

whatever those beliefs are. And so to see Neelich's going through a story where he has to face the fact that his deepest, most comforting beliefs in his existence are a lie. That's, that's huge. Great. Eric, any words? Yeah, I had two comments on this. Number one, I would have been, it's a little bit too soon for you to see that. I have to have to. I have to. you had just passed away and come back. That's my first thought. And my second thought is Chakotay made a line. He said, maybe we pulled you back before any of that could happen.

Because, you know, he had not seen his friends. Like I was thinking about the Princess Bride. Remember when Wesley's dead and then Billy Crystal's like, you're mostly dead versus all dead. That's what I was thinking. I read that little period there. Yeah. It started to bring some comedy to quite a serious subject.

but I was sticking my head all the way. Maybe there's a 24-hour waiting period. Who knows? Yeah, right. He didn't get it. Yeah. Nice. Nice observations.

We like that. All right. So now we jump to the mess hall and we are now having a celebration. Pricksis. Would you call it? It's Pricks-in, Robbie. Oh, Cix-S.

See? We never celebrated it, so I don't even know what it's called. Pricks-in. Oh, Prixus. Prix-S. Yes. Everyone hands in the air for Prix-in. Prius.

I don't know. It's Paxis. Okay, okay, it's Pryxon. Celebration for the first night of Prickson. And Paris gets everyone's attention with the old 20th century glass and spoon ding ding ding. Did it a long time. That was a lot of dingings. You dinged it.

I did. You were dinging it. By the way, the casual clothes on everybody looked great. I thought Janeway looked great. I thought everybody looked great. I love what our wardrobe department. Tuvok was so colorful. He was so colorful.

Yeah. I love his speech when he starts reading the speech that Nielix has written for him to read. He says, you know, our father, our mother, sister, brother, father's father, father's mother, mother's father, sister's father, sister's brother, mother, mother's father, sisters, brother. The reactions were great. Oh, yeah, it was good. That was good. Chikote checks on Nelix to see how he's doing. Janeway advises seven on how to be social, which is another really, funny scene. Right after that moment, she walks over to a conversation between the doctor and Samantha. She says, go chime. Yeah, just go stand with people and listen and then chime in. And she's like, chime in. Yes, join the discussion, which I thought was funny. Yes. And it was so awkward when she joined in. I loved it. A good, yeah, she joined in. And she said, they're talking about Naomi Wildman growing up

so fast. And seven goes, yes, children assimilated by the Borg are placed in maturation chambers for 17 cycles. Samantha Walman, I'm going to go talk to someone else. See ya. Yeah, that was funny. I loved it. I think it was pretty cool. One of the few scenes you guys had, the casual clothes, right? Non-uniform clothes, gotten together.

I'd made a note. I'm like, I'm not sure teal blue and purple is Tuvok's color. But I do think it was comedy there, you know, with the glass and spoon and then him cutting short his speech. Another thing that I mentioned was that I thought I saw a little slow-mo, you know, in, I remember Robbie had said that you guys didn't use slow-mo that much in one of the previous episodes. Where did we is it here? In this scene.

Oh, I must have missed it. I don't know how I missed that. It's when you throw it back to Neelix after saying we almost lost a crew member. Oh, that's right, that's right. And it was a little clapping and stuff. That's right. Yeah, we didn't use it often. And it was not a common thing to do.

And that was, I will, I will guess that was always the director making that call. It was not scripted that, you know, we go into slow motion. I can't imagine it was ever scripted. So Alan loved Alan Craker's director. And I'm sure that was his call on that. Again, 10 out of 10. Great scene. Great blocking, moving from one, you know, one conversation to another.

Everything flowed very well. We moved to Wildman's quarters, and Neelix is helping tuck Naomi in. This is where I wrote the note, what kind of stuffed animal is that? And not until the very final, final scene of this episode, do I see that this stuffed animal does have a head? Because it looked like it was a headless stuffed animal, but clearly it was not. It was a weird. Yeah. It looked like a gilly suit.

Do you know the gilly suits that were hunters or whatever will wear those things? Yeah, yeah. Make them look like a bush. It was like a gilly, gilly suit. A gilly suit stuffed animal. Yeah, that's what it looked like. Yeah, and the llama, rocking horse, alien toy, just terrifying. Like, get rid of that.

I have to go back and see that. I didn't even notice that thing. I guess I was too busy writing notes when that passed by it. It's right next to the bed. It's right there in the next door bed. Like, you can't miss it. Watch it again. You'll see it.

Oh, well. It's like a purple and red and I don't know. It's scary. All right. Go to the mess hall from here. And Seven comes in. to just scan Neelix before the next nanoprove injection. I wrote down, I love when she, he goes, okay, and he comes from behind the counter,

and he holds his hands up like this. What? We've never scared. Hey, guys, you know that helps the scan, right? You've got to lift your hands up so the scan can get around your limbs. She doesn't ask him to do it. We've never done it before, but Neelix, I guess he's got to hold his hands up in the air to get scanned. It was funny.

But I did write, so in this scene, a couple of things. He starts panicking. He's really furious about being brought back to life. He doesn't feel like he's living his life anymore. He's yelling at her. And he knocks the tricorder, the medical tricorder, out of her hand. Real hard, it hits the ground. And I, all I could think of was she goes and picks it up and it's working at the end of the scene.

Why did every tricorder I dropped on the show break? but somehow he can smash this thing and she picks it up and the lights come right on and it's working because I probably broke three or four at least tricorders with just goofing off. So that was my big note. Yeah, because your bad luck, Chuck, when it comes to holding tricorders, every time when you drop one, it breaks. That's right. It just happens.

It's probably all my time in the gym, you know, just working out. Probably just, you know, muscle strength, basically. aside from the tricorder not breaking like it should have when he knocked it over he basically is like having a heart it seemed like he was playing sort of like a heart attack situation at the end there but his cells were reverting they were rejecting the nanoprobes we find out because he starts to have convulsions right so that he's having his cells are reverting to and he sort of grabbing he was grabbing his heart that's why I was like uh-oh he's having a heart attack but then we go to sick bay they've stabilized him the cells are rejecting the nanoprobes yeah

the doctor says he may need maintenance, like he may need the rest of his life to, you know, have maintenance on this. And Neelix, uh, Chakotay's there. Neelix asked Chikote for some advice. He says, I think your people have a tradition or some way of, um, looking inside or a vision quest kind of thing. He wants to do that. And, uh, so this is like an ayahuasca ceremony or a peyote medicine is what he's describing. Yeah. Um, I wrote down, this seems like, an insane time to do an ayahuasca. Like, oh, you just died and your cells are rejecting the nanopro. And like nothing's calm in your life.

And yeah, you're going to go do an ayahuascus ceremony. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it's a little dangerous. It seems like there needs to be more time for him to recover, really, before he does this. Chacote should lose his vision quest card on this. Like, this is. Well, I mean, he should have also lost his commander card by allowing him to be part of that holodex simulation so quickly to see his own death. It's like, come on, man. Chikote has made a bunch of

mistakes here. I feel like, yeah, he could have been a little bit more cautious with Neelix. So now we're in Neelix's quarter. And then I love how you hear that quick pan flute sound that probably makes Robbie cringe whenever he hears it. And Chikote asked Neelix to put his hand on the Akuna, which always makes me think of Hakuna Matata, but no, the Akuna and the vision quest begins. And boy, what a vision quest it is. He is seeing images that really are not good images. They're, they're kind of scary, right? They're frightening. He sees Janeway. He sees everybody in the mess hall, and he sees Janeway talking to his sister, his passed away, dead sister. And he rushes over to talk to her. He's happy in the beginning. He's happy because

this is like the forest that he, you know, that his belief. swear about. I'm going to see people that have died. So he thinks he's seeing his sister. But she, as he tries to make it through the crowd, all of a sudden, she's gone. And he looks back. And there's, she's heading out the door of the mess hall. So he turns around and runs the other way. And this is where Harry says, as Neelich passes. It's pointless. Oh, no, I say potent stuff. Potent stuff. Potent stuff. In the Tom Harris reading. Yeah, this was your Tom Paris moment. Before my potent stuff, this is when Seven says to Neelix, you will be assimilated. And he goes, no time for that now, maybe later, which was hilarious.

Yeah, there was all these weird. It was like a Twilight Zone moment for him. But it's needed, these little tiny little lines that are comedic levity. You need that. In subject matter that is so serious that this episode tackles, it's so deep and dark and just overwhelming. every little bit of comedy that you can squeeze in there is appreciated by the audience, okay?

So potent stuff, yes. I love that. Yes, it was funny. We go to the forest. He's going through this forest and she says that everything was a lie and then she starts

talking like Naomi, Alicia, his sister. And I wrote down this was really creepy and scary to me. like when when the sister's going around when elixie is going around the tree talking to neelix and telling him it was all a lie like the forest and all of this uh your beliefs were a lie and then all of a sudden they come become the baby talking and then she crumbles into ash and i'm like ah

like it's it was creepy scary who roby i think you should do some voiceovers look at that new career. Yes. Do either of you remember seeing Elexia in a prior episode of Voyager before this? No. I feel like the episode. I vaguely remember even one mention. I feel like when he was talking about his planet in some earlier episode, he did mention

his sister. But did it show, but Robbie and Eric, didn't it show her in the episode where the scientist that created the cascade bomb that took out? um the talaxian outpost and everything didn't they show her in that episode i don't remember i don't think so okay i can't remember okay all right just spoke of you eric it's not easy to remember this stuff you're doing god's work thank you thank you eric it's true um i just have one thing to say about this episode it's potent stuff i also made a note here that after elixia die i think it's after he's running through the he starts to run the forest changes suddenly it goes from like the blue that was sort of the dreamy blue and then she dies and then he looks around and it turns black and scary it's very dark and i made a note that that kind of light change on a set like this is very difficult because you've got to light it you know this is not like a stage play a Broadway play where we have weeks to set lights and have dimmer boards and like

You know, it's not theatrical in that way. We're a film set. So every time you build in a lighting change, you have to rig the lights, you have to wire. So they basically had to light two entire looks for this big forest. And then they had to switch it on cue. So I just wrote, great directing in the sequence. And Marvin Rush and Billy Peets, our gaffer on the show, did an awesome job of this shift of light and the technical aspects I thought were really well done. I had two comments and a question.

And one was that it was good to see of the three items he shows. One was Kess's item. So she's still valuable with Elyxia. The second was that was Chikode's quarters. And I saw a ship. I think the art piece was a ship behind me. I was wondering what ship that was. I don't know that any of us will ever know that.

But I don't know if that was his prior ship that he served on. But, you know, it's a bit of a factoid. That's on the wall? Where is that, Eric? Is it a model? It's a circular plate. or thing, and there is a ship there.

I just caught my eye. I just was wondering. If anybody would ever know that, that'd be great just as a trivia. And the last thing would be, at Great Forest, presumptively, that was done on a stage. Yeah, it was done on stage 16.

Yeah. It's a big stage where our caves were. We would build a lot of swing sets there for different. 16. 16, yeah, stage 16 at Paramount. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that forest, and we had recycled some forest looks before, so, but it wasn't just the construction of this forest on stage. It was the way it was lit and photographed. Again,

Alan Craker, Marvin Rush, Billy Peets, our gaffer, the entire, you know, lighting department and stuff. I thought they did an awesome job of that. Yeah, agreed. Great. We're in Astromatrix, and Neelix arrives to locate seven, and he apologizes. for his outburst and flip out that he had in mess hall. And he also says goodbye, which now we start getting, you know, the idea of what's going to happen next, which is he's going to take his own life.

And we jumped to mess hall. Yeah, this is very sad to me. This is very sad. And I see, you know, as the story got into this part of the story, I see why they had rewritten this story idea a few times. because dealing with this subject matter of dealing with death in general is just, you know, triggering for a lot of people. And then to deal with the idea of a character taking his own life as can be triggering. Yeah, very much so.

It was a tough story to write, but I think they did a really good job of it. Yeah. So when Messal-Chicote approaches Neelix and says, hey, you skipped our meeting. We're supposed to, you know, we're supposed to have. follow-up meetings after you have your vision quest because you need time. You need to take the time to be able to analyze all the images that you have seen on the vision quest. And it's not something that you can just, because the first things that you see, they can be, they can be construed as negative as something that's a negative thing or a bad thing. But the more time you allow it to settle in your brain and in processing. See it a different way. See it a different

light exactly. You can't see it from a different light until you give more time, right? You can only, you only see one side of the coin. Only one side when you initially react to the vision quest. But the longer time you have, that is what you need. Right. And Neelik says, sure, sure, I'll be there. I'll meet you later. Let me just finish cleaning. Let me finish doing this. And Chikote leaves. And we have this really sad and sweet moment where he kind of cleans up the mess hall looks around and then says, computer lights out. Yeah, which we've never seen that. We've never seen him turn all the lights off to Estermich. So it's almost an analogy to what was going to happen with his own life, just turning out his own light, right? We go to his quarters, and he's leaving

messages for everyone on his computer saying goodbye. And he says, and again, I'm just, I'm along for the ride here. I was just, it was so sad to me. Yeah, yeah. He says, deliver in one hour. It feels like this, this, this, the momentum of the story at this point is just kind of inevitably heading towards this tragic conclusion and I think that's a testament to the writing and the directing and performances because it does feel that's the best version of a story is you feel like the outcome is inevitable and yet you know it can't be there's got to be something it's going to change that's the best storytelling is when we feel like it's inevitable that voyager's going to be destroyed or whatever it's inevitable and you're along for the and then something happens yeah that's a game

changer and that's what's about to happen. So he goes to he goes to transport a room. He's trying to beam himself into the nebula where he thinks he should have died. And they detect this on the bridge. They try to shut it down, but he's overridden the controls. And so, well, no, he's blocked by Harry. Thank you. So his initial beam out is blocked out. At first he says that they're blocked out. And then Harry, yes, and then Harry. And then Chikote shows up in the transporter rooms. What are you doing? And he's like, well, I have a, you know, don't step any closer. I have a site-to-site transport set up that you cannot override. So that is the, you know, that's the ace in the hole for Neelix at that point.

Yeah. And he says that there's no point in living anymore. He says 11 years he saw that everything was destroyed. And this was the thing that comforted in him was knowing that he was going to see his family and see his sister. And now there's no point in living. Right. he knows that that hope that he had was not real and very sad moment and then wildman called this is when I started crying and then Samantha Wildman calls and says Neelix come in please neelix Naomi needs you

to go to sleep that's where I was just like oh come on guys like really bring a kid into this and then that's that's that's that's my kryptonite like you start bringing kid stories in and I'm just like Wildman now shows up in person because she said she had to use the computer to locate. And she doesn't know. She has no clue what's going on. Yeah, it's perfectly, perfectly built because you're just like

the points of view in the room of you know, Samantha Wildman who just loves Neelix and doesn't know any of what's going on in this moment. She's so oblivious. And that juxtaposition of that innocence of Samantha Wildman with the foreboding possibility of Neelix

beaming himself into, the nebula. It's just, you can cut it with a knife. It's just, it's, it's a great scene, really good scene. Yeah. She says that little girl needs you. Yeah. She thinks there's monsters in the replicator. Who else can handle that? Right. And yeah, very, very sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Final scene is Neelix bedside with, uh, well, not the final scene, one of the final scenes. Uh, next to the last. Uh, Naomi, excuse me, Naomi Wildman's bedside. Did a monster get you? Is what she asked, Neelix, and he says, well, sort of, I chased him away. And that was wonderful because he's able to chase away that the darkness that was in his head, you know. And in the very

final scene, we see young Naomi Wildman sitting by the guiding tree, right? She's sitting at the base of the guiding tree, holding her little stuffed animal. And I'm not sure what you guys got out of that final scene. It's an interesting final image because it can be interpreted. it, I think, a million ways, you know? Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if this is her dream and this is comforting to her that she's sort of adopted the comfort, the story that he's passed on. So that's her dream image then, basically. She just fell asleep. Like, well, you know what, it is. It shows that he performed his duty. His duty was to put her to sleep, right? And she did. She fell asleep in her last images of that guiding tree sitting there. Could be that. Could be just,

I don't know. But I liked it. You know, after the end, then you're left with it. thinking about Neelix and, you know, what is he left with? How is he going to function, you know, in terms of, I mean, if you have your belief system just destroyed, how do you live with yourself? And of course, you know, you felt a little bit better after the transport scene. But, you know, that's, you know, they've been interesting to follow that a little bit in a more serialized fashion because that changes a person. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So here's the question for both Robbie and Eric. Did I mention your underlying lesson?

Did I mention I give this a 10 out of 10? Yes, you did. What is your underlying theme slash lesson to be learned for this episode? I'll jump in. I have a couple, but I probably could have even gone with more themes. I think one of the themes is changing your perspective on a deeply held belief is very, very hard. That's one lesson I got from this. the other another lesson i got is the true meaning of being alive is living in the present the now not in the future and not in the past he's he feels alive when he's talking to little naomi wildman

and that's in the now that's what's really happening that's life not his not his story about the future not the stories about 11 years ago and what happened but truly being alive is when he's with this little girl and and doing his thing you know So anyway, good. Eric, what do you think? I had two things, probably not as spiritual, but I think one thing is everybody contributes in their own way and everybody is valuable in their own way.

So I know that historically, I guess, in the fandom, Neelix was probably not one of the most popular characters, but I think with your rewatch and falling along, you know, not only him, but Kess, they were pretty strong characters. Yeah, absolutely. So that's something not just for, Star Trek, but for life. And then another one, I, I've just kind of all this learned is that

almost nothing in life ever goes as planned or envisioned. And that also leads you dealing with something unexpected. So, um, not so deep spiritually, but that's just a practicality of life. So it's true. That's very true. So many lessons in this, I felt like, what did you get here? For me, just no matter how dark it can get, there is always light at the end of a tunnel. little bit of time and try to look for the flip side of the coin. Try to understand that because as human beings, we get so locked into one one view. And this kind of ties into yours, Robbie. It is difficult to change you, to flip your mindset. But it can be done. It can be done. Right. When you mentioned the idea of light at the end of the tunnel, it reminds me of the phrase,

this two shall pass. Yeah, this two shall pass. Yeah. I heard a great story about the history of that phrase a lot of people attribute it to a religious you know christian this two shall pass is a biblical there is a biblical reference to that but it was that phrase and that concept goes back far beyond christianity there was greek concepts of this idea that that the idea being that everything is temporary the good the bad like enjoy it in this moment the good and be comforted that the bad will pass because all of it passed. That's the reality of being a lie. That's the reality of time and reality is everything passed.

So when you say light at the end of the tonal, that phrase always comes to mind. Okay. Another thing I always like to say is that life is just a collection of peaks and valleys, peaks and valleys. There's going to be high points in your life and there's going to be very, very low points in your life. And this is everyone's life.

nobody lives a life of all peaks and nobody lives a life of all valleys right it's it's a peak in a valley a peak in a valley maybe a few valleys in a row and then a peak comes up again but you know just just trust that things will flip for for you if you give it time if you don't give a time and don't giving a time is is making you know the decision that is that thank god neelix didn't go through with and thank god there was somebody there and people multiple people there for neelix to help him yeah pause for a moment and think about it. Yeah. Chircote's showing up and Samantha Wildman walking in, you know, these things that happened in that moment that could have, could have, yeah, gone differently.

So, yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Well, first of all, Robbie, I think both you and I agree. We're thankful to have Mr. Eric Cowell with us, hosting with us. Thanks, Eric. Yes. You did a great job, my friend. My Asian American brother from another mother, I'm really happy that you were here with us and joining us and giving giving us your two cents on the episode Mortal Coil. I want to thank Eric's wife for her poetry. And was it Liz? Yes, Liz who did the Limericks. I want to thank those guys for stepping up in the poetry side of our podcast here. Eric, I think you should start calling her Limerick Liz from now. Yes. Okay. This is the way to go. There you go. Thank you. It's been a it's been an honor.

It's been a pleasure. I just was so happy to meet you. And if anybody's not a Patreon, I'll just tell my quick story. I was hesitant because I'm busy and I'm like, oh, I won't have time, you know? But you know what? It's completely worth it. So please, if anybody is watching, hearing this, please join. It's wonderful. Delta Flyers is incredible. I was going to say, Eric, like, thank you for that. We didn't ask you for any endorsement or whatever. Like, I just, it's coming from your heart. Yeah, that really is. But I think that I've been really, I'm really grateful for the sense of family and community that we've created with the Delta Flyers in every way. Like the people that are commenting on our podcast, the Patreon community is super strong. And we've got our Discord group that's, that's, they've developed like really deep friendships now and relationships that are awesome. And just being able to revisit this show after so many years has, uh, has been our. a real reminder of how lucky I was to be a part of the show and the fan community. So I appreciate

your words too. I just don't want it to end. I don't know what's going to happen. I know. I know. We're sort of, but we're like halfway. Join us next week, everybody, when we review waking moments, waking moments. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. It's a new I'm going to Beaux B. I'm

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