The Delta Flyers - Paradise Lost

Episode Date: August 12, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Paradise Lost, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell.Paradise Lost: As Sisko mobilizes Starfleet Security for war with the Dominion, he becomes suspicious of Adm. Leyton's plans.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Nicki T, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Danie Crofoot, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, Tamara Evans, & Deb LahrAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Joshua Shields, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, Brian Heckathorne, Mark Johnson, Nelson Silveira, Ming Xie, & Gordon WatsonThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong, For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. You will not regret it. Hello, everyone. That's a guarantee.

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Yes, and congratulations. Yes, congrats to all the people, the new Patreon patrons, and you're getting all the bonus material, all the nitty-gritty. You get to see everything. I like there's baby steps. too. So when people find out about it, I'm like, you can listen to it for free. And then if you want more. Three bucks a month, five bucks a month. Both our bottom levels are literally less than one Starbucks drink. Right? And is it really that great, the coffee? I mean, I love going to the airport.

Seriously, I love going to the airport and getting those egg pucks because I'm gluten-free and there's almost virtually nothing I can eat anywhere. Those egg bites are every day. thing when you're looking for food or traveling across the country and the egg bites are more than our entry level patreon by the way yes they are the egg bites are more expensive than our entry at patreon so yeah i mean they take an egg bite of the delta flyers take an egg bite should that have been my intro for the complete and egg bite version of this podcast take an egg bite of the Delta Flyers. That's that's nice. I like that. Okay. I got a few birthdays. We do. We do. We do. Who's birthday is it? Who's first? I think it's Warren Stein's

birthday on August 13th. Happy birthday, Warren. Happy birthday, Warren. Happy birthday, Warren. And we have Jan Hanford, August 16th. Happy birthday, Jan. Happy birthday, Jan. Happy birthday, Jan. Happy birthday to Jan, August 16th. Donna Runyon, August 17th. Happy birthday, Donna. Happy birthday, Donna. Happy birthday, Donna. All of our Leos here.

Happy birthday to the Leos. All right. And welcome. We have a new prophet, everybody. Yes, I heard. It's very exciting. A new prophet. Andrew Cano is our new prophet.

So welcome to Andrew. Welcome to Andrew. Hi, Andrew. Andrew Great to have you here Yes Now it's time for Proetery Synopsis

Robbie McNeil and his limerick Please Yes, here we go I struggled on this one So we'll see Okay You know I wasn't coming back on this episode No

No not this one All right Here's my limerick for Paradise Lost Red Squad evidence of sabotage seems enough to suffice. Leighton's fear and thirst for power are his destructive vice. Odo assists like a sleuth, and the defiant brings on the truth. Cisco has rescued our earthly paradise.

Nice. I think that was actually really cool. Let me just say, every time you always say, you know, I had a really tough time with this, and you still knock it out of the park. Really? Yeah, I don't know why you keep saying that. You do. Doesn't he do that?

He was like, you know what? This isn't really good. This is kind of poopy. See, this is why I have so much fear about doing it. You guys are so good. And then you were like, you're so good. It's so different and good. And I'm like, oh, my God, I liked it better when I wasn't thinking about how now it has to be good.

I put so much pressure on myself. I got to get this condo off and start trying again. But you are so much better than you think you are. And, by the way, you're really good. By the way. I'm a poet and I don't know it. Exactly. When you have contributed in the past with a poem, Terry, Robbie and I are always happy

to hear your poems because it's refreshing to hear another take. Different angle. Yeah, it's a different angle. And oftentimes it's like a- I'll make more of an effort. Yeah, it's a very inspirational take, too. I feel like it's good. And I think you shouldn't be afraid of it.

And it's good to sit with the struggle, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yes, it is sometimes. That's the part that I hate sitting with. It's like, oh, what do I say? How do I word that? And I need to sit in that more because that's a creative place to say. Yes, yes.

Yes, it is. And you don't have to be perfect. No, right. Like, let go of perfectionism. It's, I've got to get over that learning curve of what that is. And we're all creative people. So you coming up with a poem sort of exercises or fulfills or satisfies your creative urges and needs that are within your.

It does feel satisfying. When you finish one. It does. It does. It really does. And it's kind of a nice life lesson. Yeah. Yeah.

But we're not going to. We were talking about before. It's just working on something, working on something, making your brain go, oh, I don't feel comfortable doing this and finding a new way. Yeah. And we are very patient. So whenever you decide to come back to the poetry world, we are ready to hear it. Thank you. Okay.

So I only have a year and a half left. Unless we find another show. I know. It's flying. by, isn't it? It's going by. Yes. It is. All right. Hiku time. Here's my haiku for Paradise Lost. Ben finds deception. Red Squad caused power outage. Changeling Chief is scary.

Changling Chief was scary. So scary. Oh, my God. That was great. Thanks. I know Armin's not here, but I do want to share a little etymology. of the word paradise. Oh, yay, I love it. In honor of Armin. So the word paradise originates from an old Persian word, peridaeza, meaning enclosure or walled garden.

This word was adopted into ancient Greek as paradisos, which then entered Latin as paradises, and eventually into various European languages. But this idea, the origin of a walled garden where it's enclosed, it's kind of interesting, in this, the etymology of paradise because they keep talking about Earth is paradise but that would mean it's cut off

from the rest of the universe. Isolated. I thought that was interesting. Another interesting, another super interesting thing is the origin of that word. Every time Armin does this segment, it's always like, it's old English for, it's old English for, it's French, it's,

but we never hear Persian. Persian, I don't think we've heard. Oh, first time. That's interesting. Yeah, Persian word. And then it's old English for, it's French. adopted by the Greeks or modified to the Greek. So a very old

old idea. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Oh, yes. And it's probably, it was Paradise because they felt safe being enclosed. Like you would in a castle, right? It has the wall and the moat and the people live within the castle walls. Yeah. Interesting.

Very interesting. Love it. Yes. Teleplay by Iris Stephen Bear and our good friend Robert Hewitt Wolf. Story by Ronald D. Moore, directed by... Oh, this is really super cool, because think about it. The director is Reza, a D, who is Persian, and... Yeah, I didn't...

Wow, I didn't even make that connection. Oh, my gosh. Oh, that's so cool. Yes, yes. This is the last episode. Yeah, for him. This is the last episode? Directed by Reza.

For who? For Reza. He didn't direct anything else in Teensland after this, unfortunately, so. Well, he just did this one and that was it? No, no, he did some before. A couple before, yeah. Two, maybe? I can't remember those.

I think so. Guest stars, Robert Foxworth as Admiral Layton. Herschel Sparber as Jerish Inyo. Susan Gibney as Benton, Aaron Eisenberg as Nog, of course. Mina Batty as security officer. She's the one that was, you remember that she came in to give the blood test of the security guy. That's actually Reza's daughter. Is it really?

Oh, of course. Oh, that's cool. We have Brock Peters again as Grandpa Sisko. He's there. We guy. Yes, David Drew Gallagher as Riley Aldrin Shepard, who is from Red Squad, who also appeared in D-Space 9, six-season episode Valiant, will appear in the sixth season episode Valiant. Do you think the Riley-Aldron Shepard is Buzz Aldrin and Alan Shepard?

Yes. Thrown in there, the astronauts? Yes. Yeah, I bet it was. Yes, you're right on the money. and I did not see that until you said that, actually. Yeah, no, of course. What else could it be, right?

There's another reference. It's a made-up name. Yes, but they stole names of real astronauts. If they did it without realizing it, wouldn't that be weird? Yes, that would be super weird. They did it without realizing it. Yes. Also, we have Bobby C. King as security chief.

He's the guy that Meena Batty takes the blood test from. That's right outside of Cisco's cell. Also, Bobby was credited as a stuntman. on Star Trek Into Darkness. We have Rudolph Wilrich as the Bolian commandant that's on the view screen. And also, Rudolph appears as Rayton Grax in the TNG episode, Menageretroix, and Coulon in the Enterprise episode Oasis. So Rudolph has been in three different tracks.

Cork, Armand-Schimmerman, does not appear in this episode. Very rare to not have an armory. Very rare, yeah. He was probably working on Buffy that week. Probably. Principal Skinner or whatever his name. And I just want to read this little quote from, just to explain a little bit about what's happening here. This episode was originally supposed to be the opening episode of fourth season.

Blah, blah, blah. Hold on. The writer's solution was the adversary finale, which put them in a position to go in any number of alternative directions come the new season. Then, during the hiatus between season three and season four, Paramount instructed the writers to do something to shake up the show for the fourth season, which ultimately, led to the introduction of the Klingons and the episode The Way of the Warrior, which they spent a ton of money on, by the way. But not quite enough. Not quite enough.

All of these developments meant that the home front slash paradise loss story was pushed back into the middle of the fourth season. So this was the episode that wanted to be the main one, but just kept getting put back and put back and put back. Yeah, it's interesting. like, you know, we recapped Homefront, part one with Arm and Terry.

Yeah. And I did not rate it high. In fact, it might have been my lowest rating of DS9. And it's funny watching this part two. I actually love the ideas and the issues that are brought up in this two-part. They are really important issue. Yeah, they are. I just don't think it was,

either part and I'm a spoiler alert but I don't think either part were well written which is surprising after what you're saying Garrett because it's like they were obsessed It doesn't feel juicy It's not like you're not on your edge of your seat

You're not moved emotionally And part of it is performances I have to be honest I don't think they're the best and the best of series regulars or even our guest stars I don't think they're the greatest performances Right. Although Robert Foxworth is really good. I think he really is. He's a consistent actor.

You can't. Yeah. But aside from him, it was a little, it was a little all over the place. I don't know. I just, I feel like they were obsessed to get back to your trivia about this. They were obsessed with making this episode and this two-parter, which you would think with that much obsession and passion, they would have brought their best work. And maybe they overthought it or something. Maybe it had been brewing so. long that they end up with a little bit of a flat version of what could have been, I think, with these ideas and themes, like, amazing. So the title of this episode comes from the 17th century poem written by English poet John Milton of the same name, Paradise Lost. Susan Gibney, who plays Bentine, was also considered for the role of Catherine Janeway on Star Trek Voyager, which we talked about on Homefront. Yes, I remember.

That's interesting. In that, yes. It is. she was in the final i guess two or three that screen tested yeah screen tested for janeway i remember doing a scene oh they had a screen yeah we had three two or three actors that i think three it was susan because it's such an important part and you guys are already filming is this after yes what's her name john via bujo had left we i remember she kind of shut down yeah my gosh but i'm so happy i watched the um the voyager documentary right because

Because when you see the scene that Jean-Ville did, you're just like, oh, she doesn't seem like a captain at all. No. I didn't hire her for that. That's not her. That she doesn't fit in there. And it's no disrespect to her as an actor because she's a terrific actor, but that was definitely not her role. Not her role. Yeah.

I always said, I said, Jean-Ville-Boujold's way of playing Jane. way would be perfect for a French art house type of film like independent like some crazy like silent he's not a captain it's not no it doesn't work he's not a captain it didn't work so susan gibney i just did a little research on this season gibney was in the first round and rick berman wanted her wow really yes because she had been a next generation as dr lea broms so susan gibney was rick's favorite early on. The role went to Jean-Viev. Helen Schaver was also

in the mix at that first. Oh, I like her a lot. She's such a good actor. But any of those choices instead of Kate would have been a totally different Voyager. Totally different. Any of those choices besides Genevieve also is just like, what?

The other two had much closer to being a military person. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I think when they tested after Jean-Viev left, And they came back. Kate tested. Susan Gibney, Kate. And it was...

No, Elizabeth Denahey came in. Elizabeth Denahey. I think it was Elizabeth Denahe because she was a client of my agent at the time. I think those were the three that screen tested. Wow. Isn't that amazing? Is that Brian Denahey's daughter? Yeah.

Okay. After the episode aired, Iris Stephen Bear keeps a note pinned to his office wall, which reads, Remember Paradise Lost. The reason Bear explains is, quote, to remind me how we'd screwed up, as with Homefront, Bear blames the lack of money. But in this case, the problems created by budgetary constraints were far more important than in the first episode. We cut down on opticals in the final space scene, which was a mistake, and we cut down on

extras in terms of showing the occupying Starfleet force on the streets of Earth. To this day, I just can't tell you how aggravated it makes me. It just drives me crazy. And that answers my complaint about last episode was, if you're going to show boots on the ground, show a ton of troops, not like three here, one here. That looks ridiculous. It looks bad. What about it when O'Brien comes?

It doesn't tell the story and it's a visual medium. So if you can't tell the story with your visual medium, with visual effects, whether they're people or. No. So it's not abstract theater that we're doing here. And it's clearly on the mind of Ira that this really bugged him to no end to write something says, remember Paradise Lost. It's so sad. And I critiqued the episode, last episode, saying they needed more boots on the ground.

And now I know why they didn't happen. Yes. I apologize. Well, it's probably he'd commiserate with us about it. Again. They do a recap. So we know we've already talked about. This is part two.

They do a recap. And now we're back in Starfleet headquarters. And there's an establishing shot of Starfleet headquarters. I love the cool tube train in that establishing shot. Did you see it? Yeah. Never saw that before. We didn't see that before.

Another little quick fact about right outside. the same shot, that establishing shot, right outside of Starfleet Command. There are a number of statues of famous starships, including the USS Enterprise from the original series. Really? Yes. Statues. Production designer Herman Zimmerman used Galube toys. So Galub is the name of the company that made those starships as the statues. But they are so hard to pick up, though, because it's such a quick.

Yeah. And where are they? They're all in the ground. Like, you know, the gardens? Oh, no, I meant, and where are they filming it? Because it's, it's the Japanese gardens, I think. That's where they always, since TNG, they filmed the Starfleet headquarters. Encinano.

Yeah, it's in the valley. Oh, I'm thinking of the direction. No, no. What is the garden we used to shoot at all the time? Huntington Gardens. Did you guys shoot there? Huntington Gardens. I don't think I ever went to Encino.

Yeah, so the valley has the Japanese gardens, and that's where Starfleet I've always been since TNG days. It's also a water treatment plant there next to the Japanese gardens. Yes. That's where the building looks so interesting. And I'd never seen that before. Right. We're inside Cisco's office.

He's head of security or whatever his new title is. He's got an office. It's Cisco and Odo talking. And they talk about the sabotage of the power grid. They're very suspicious. Cisco brings up Red Squad. Turns out they look into it in this report. that Red Squad was moved around.

They were, you know, sent away and then brought back. And it just seems around the same time, kind of suspicious to Odo and Cisco. And Robbie, I immediately thought Nova Squad. I immediately thought, yes, again. So, Terry. Is it a fire you're thing? No, Robbie did a T&G episode as a guest star where he played a Starfleet cadet, yeah, and he was part of this elite, elite Starfleet group called Nova Squad.

They were the best, just like this, they were the best of the best. And Robbie, they were performing a move in one of the legal move. A legal move with their little shuttles and one person died, a cadet died. And so Robbie led all of the other cadets to do a cover-up. Like, we're not going to tell anyone that we did the illegal move kind of a thing. Bad guy. He was a bad guy. That was a character.

Yeah, that is he, yeah, not. Because in a moment, they started like, you're saying his name so much. It's like, oh my God, what did you do? Robbie was so bad. I didn't do anything. Nick Lackarno, sorry. Right, Nick La Carno, his character. You're bad boy.

Yes, but this was very much reminiscent of that. I felt, oh, my God, these guys are- Here's the lesson. Anytime Starfleet Academy creates a squad, they're going to be bad. They're going to be bad boys. Red squad, Nova squad. Stay away from the squads. Don't be a part of the squad.

Did you notice the backing in the close? I think it was the close-up or maybe the two-shot when you could see the backing of San Francisco. The bridge is there or some of the mountains. There's some waves. and they're just frozen because it's a photo back. It's a right. I kept looking at the waves. I'm like,

they're not moving. Yeah. The photo backing is just a giant photograph. Yeah. And nothing is moving. And I was like, isn't a shame? Yeah.

I mean, now in this day and age, you can change that, obviously. You can change that. Cheaply. With a computer. Yeah, with the computer. Yeah. But maybe pick a picture where it doesn't look

like there should be action. Oh, so more of a placid day, a calm day without waves. It would be like if you had a backing of a highway outside and the cars were just frozen. They weren't moving on the highway. Yeah. And it can't be, you know, traffic jam, literally spaced out, but not moving. Yes, yes. Super weird.

Planes in the air, not moving. Yeah, not moving, weird. But the fact that your eyes were drawn to that detail of the waves, like you had to, you saw that immediately the first it was early in the scene it was I couldn't I had to go back and rewatch this scene because I wasn't being attention you just well because you know what you we know this world

so well yes you can really look at other stuff well or just in general right watching stuff right I mean I feel that when I watch other things or like I'll think the next line there are certain lines

that a writer has to put in to help tell the story and move it forward. Well, it feels like my brain says those lines as I'm watching, whichever show I'm watching. Not every line they're saying, but there are some, like, well, you know, he's going to say, how did you come to that? Yeah. You know, that kind of a thing or, well, where do they go?

And your mind will say it before they say it. Yes. Whenever my mind goes to how the sausage is made, like, oh, the backing's wrong or the continuity, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, The matching of the food or whatever. The makeup's off. Yeah. Anytime that happens, it's bad for the storytelling because it takes you out.

Yeah. Agreed. But we have that built in where we know where the fourth wall is. You know, we've been creating the fourth wall for a great chunk of our lives. So it's hard not to watch and have kind of that experience precede you. Yep. Well, they're very suspicious of. Red Squad, as we've learned, any squad. Be suspicious. We go to Cisco's restaurant. Joseph and

Jake are coming back with a bunch of bags of supplies for the restaurant, but nobody's there. There's no customers. Jake talks about, you know, why are we doing this? Nobody's going to come. You know, everybody's hunkered down, scared. And Joseph said, no, there's people all over the streets. And Jake looks out. It's just a couple security officers. Yeah, two Starfleet guys. And no one around. I'm like, what did COVID happen? Are we? What's going on?

The budget. The budget happened. We needed more out there. More security. Almost on every episode this year. Well, you know what? We have Michael Dorn. Right?

Suddenly our budget added another person. I forgot about that. And not just and not just any other random person. It was Michael Dorn from TNG. Yeah. So you know, they had to give him. him something substantial. So that cuts into the budget. Well, they're getting supplies, but it's a scene about everybody, nobody's out in the world. Nobody, civilians are scared and they're

saying. Yeah. Yeah. And Isisco's dad, Joseph, is in a little bit of denial, probably in a self-soothing kind of way and to protect Jake. Like, we're just going to keep moving like it's normal. Right. Right. Yeah. I like that about Joseph. He doesn't buy into the mass hysteria. He didn't want to have the blood drawn in the first episode. He's like, I'm not buying into this herd mentality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And he's very grounded and kind of stays within himself. And I like that about that character. Me too. And it's no surprise that Cisco comes from a dad with that kind of character. Yeah. Mm-hmm. We're back in Cisco's office. And now he is in a video conference, a Zoom call, actually.

You will, with the Bolian commandant. And we have Odo, who's sort of standing off to the side so that he's not on the video call. Yeah. And we find out that Cisco makes them aware, makes the Bolian commandant aware of Red Squad being returned to the academy, not long after the power outage. And the commandant's like, wait a minute, that's in the official records? You're like, yeah.

And then that's when the commentant says, is this a secure line? And is it at my end, Cisco says. And essentially, the Commandant asked Cisco to erase all records of this, which is hugely suspicious and a big red flag. Mm-hmm. And doesn't the Commandant kind of exit and come back to? Did he? Yeah, he signs off. Yeah, yeah, he says one moment.

That's right. Yeah. To go check probably. Which made me kind of go, wow, I haven't seen anything like that on the show before. Very suspicious. Yeah, very suspicious. Because he clearly went to, he messaged Layton or he called Layton up immediately. We don't know that at this point.

I did wish that Odo was not just... René was not hiding. I wish he had morphed into something so that he could watch the screen and then when he couldn't afford that... That's right. Ira wished that he could have morphed as well, but budget again, struck again.

Yeah. The bummer. Budget ruined so many episodes. You know the saying in filmmaking, I don't know if you've heard it, but I've heard it a lot, where in the morning, you're taking all the time in the world to make great scenes.

And then after lunch, when you're three hours behind, you're like, and the saying is, Gone with the Wind in the morning, Dukes of Hazard in the afternoon. Dukes of Hazard. I have not, but, yes. That's all funny. Yes, I get you. So this is Gone with the Wind season one, Dukes of Hazard, season four. My word.

Oh, God. That's the frustrating part about it, isn't it? Because it's easy to have the fantasy of why can't they? Why can't they? And then when you're in the business, you can go, oh, no, you have no idea how many moving parts and people there are. It's just too. It's just you can't contain a lot of it. Yeah.

We're back at the restaurant. Basically, Joseph is getting his, doesn't he get a blood test here? I think he gets it. Yeah, but he's very happy to get it. He's happy about it compared to last episode. episode. Not so happy. Not so much. No, not so much. Do you think it was the pretty girl? Could be. Never underestimate the pretty girl in Star Trek. The power of a pretty lady. In Star Trek. Yes. In Star Trek. Especially in Trek. Yeah. So Nog appears and he's like, oh,

Captain, Jake said you wanted to see me. And Cisco's a yes, yes, have a seat. And this is when Cisco really kind of starts grilling Nag about the Red Squad. He's like, Like, you know, can you tell me who this is? And he's like, no, no, no, it's, it's confidential. We don't let anyone's, we can't say anyone's name. And Cisco, wasn't that just like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Don't say that. Don't, don't go there.

And then Cisco lays down the hammer. And he's just like, you know, I need a name. I want a name and I want it now. That is an order. Understood, Mr. Nog, yes, sir. I like this turn for Cisco when he realizes, oh, okay, I've got to play the part. of the tough, you know, sergeant or commander or whatever.

The bad guy. I've got to play the chain of command here. And then he continues it in the next scene. Oh, my God. Where he talks to shepherd. I don't think he has any problem with that. Right. I think that's a easy go-to for Cisco.

Yeah. In fact, it's like he's been chomping at it to get like, you know, let me be in charge. Because Lincoln kind of has his hands tied, right? In a way, because he's in charge. Absolutely. But, and also Cisco trusts Leighton at this point because they have a history. They're really good friends.

Yeah. And he's his admiral, right? Yeah. Well, Cisco's the boss here. And our Red Squad member, Aldrin Shepherd guy, our Buzz Aldrin, Allen Shepard combo, Red Squad guy. Shepard comes in, cadet Shepard reports in, and Cisco is the boss in this scene. Start to finish. I love it.

grilling him and he tells Shepard that he's been reviewing the record of the Red Squad mission and mistakes were made and he wants to know all about it and Shepard walks him through it because he thinks, oh, command. He's going to. He's like, no, we didn't make any mistakes. I'll tell you exactly what we did. So he goes through the whole thing and clearly Red Squad was the ones that were used for the sabotage. Yeah. I feel like the one moment that that Shepard kind of gives it up is after Cisco says, some sloppy work, some damn sloppy work. And then he's like, okay, with all the respect. That is not true.

We were really good. So he could not, he could not keep it in. Yes. That's how you tell, yes. A little rewind of it. That's how you get the elite of elite to give it up was when you say their work sucks. And they're like, what? We're the best of all.

Hell no. Hell no. Let me show you. So Shepard, he's giving it all up, right? Shepherd's giving all the info. Shepard gave it all up. Cisco's got a story that confirms his suspicion from the report that he read with Odo. So off we go to Cisco's restaurant, to Joseph's restaurant.

It's nighttime. Odo and Cisco are talking. I just have a comment here. They walk in, Cisco goes over to the fridge, opens it up, pulls out a thing of milk, which looks like old-fashioned milk and pours himself a glass of milk. Does Cisco drink milk? It just seems like I've never seen him. I've never seen him.

I guess so. Does he, what does he drink in the, is he rackedegino? What does he drink in the coffee? I've seen, we've seen him drink coffee or tea or tea. Things of tea.

Yeah, but you know what too? We don't have clear glasses. It's, there's always some fangled glass. Was he holding a clear one in this one? Then you can see the, no.

How did you know it was milk? It was an old-fashioned milk clear bottle? Yes, it was like a clear bottle of milk and he poured. It was definitely milk. Oh, like a glass, like a glass of mill fashion. I think I was looking down.

Well, maybe we're smart enough to go back to glass, so we're not ingesting microplastics because I'm just thinking about that the other day. Remember when everything kind of shifted from glass to plastic? And it was so great and you're little and it's like, oh, good, it won't break. Yeah. But so we've been ingesting that all this time and I can imagine we're going to start doing more glass again. I hope so.

I mean, I do too. I wonder if Cisco is drinking milk in the scene. Yes. Not because that's his drink, because we've never seen him drink it before, but because he's at his dad's restaurant and his dad's place is like this natural, organic, it's human. Yes. That feels like it fits. The sound.

And when he was a kid, he drank the milk from the fridge. He's with his dad. So it's now nostalgic, yes. Now I've turned, I've changed my tune. At first I was like, that was wrong. He shouldn't have had milk. But now, you know what, I just want to let you know. I drink milk.

You do? I drink oat milk. I love oat milk. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry. I have tried every different milk, but it's just not. It's not the same. I like oak milk.

She just went, mm-hmm. That's a situation. That moon said everything. It was a situation where Terry had her thoughts about her judgment and opinion. And she went, I don't need to share this. I'm going to let it go. And she went, I don't want to yuck your yum. Thank you.

Thank you. Because I, too, will eat things because I know they're good for me. And when I really think about it, like, do I really like it? No, I want everything. I want a donut. Not everything. I want a donut. But you go completely off the rail.

I go way off the rails. See? And I just want a real glass of milk. Robbie goes from a cow. Oat milk? and donuts right now. Wait a minute. Oh, that sounds so good.

Exactly. Like the chick with the Big Mac and the Diet Coke. Right. And then a healthy drink. It's like, wait a minute. Yeah. Okay.

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uh buzz aldrin allen shepherd guy oh yeah um cadet shepherd he believes him and uh he said i tested him myself so it wasn't a changeling line to me this was right this was all real and Cisco gets very torn he gets very emotional talking about his friends and how they covered up this trees in this act but they're his good friends so again it's like you know Layton and Cisco are close. He really loves these guys. So how do you do this? How do you clean this up? And I like Odo's comment. He said, you won't be betraying your friends. Your friends betrayed the Federation. Yes. Oh, lovely. Yes. Well said. Sisko's got to turn his thinking around. You're not betraying these people. They did the betraying. Yep. So we're back in the president's office.

It's Jerish Inyo, the six foot eight guy that doesn't look six foot eight on screen to me. I'm sorry. When I at him. Well, they didn't have him stand up, did they? He does walk around at one point. That's the only time where you see their eyes looking up. Yes. Otherwise, that's why they had him sitting down. I'm sure that's why. They think of those things.

And also, Terry, Robbie, in the last episode, when we were with, when Armand co-hosted, Robbie hated the makeup on the president. I don't think it's good. It's not, uh, uh, uh, I don't like all the other things going on. He has like a pinstripe suit looking thing. And then he has a headpiece. that's also like a pinstripe suit to match. Like, I'm like, what's going, what is happening?

And a little bit of tuft of hair coming out in the front. And I just notice there's a weird hanging like goate skin piece. Attaches to his neck. It kind of disappears underneath. Yeah, it's just, it's a very. I thought his makeup, I honestly, I just thought of him as looking kind of rather flat. Flat. Yeah.

Not a lot of details. No, but not the most. And it's hard to look at. Just like unfinished. Yes. Something's unfinished about his makeup. Which, you know, I would not expect this from Michael Westmore and company. I would expect them to have something a little bit better.

If this is the president. They didn't have hands for him. He's wearing gloves the whole time. Was it gloves? I thought it was painted. I thought they painted his hands. No, it was gloves. Oh, that's even.

Was it sort of a meshy thing that matched his outfit? Oh, no. He had like a meshy tie thing. See, they, which episode is this? Which number? Out of 26? This is number 11 out of 26. So we're right in the middle of this.

Yeah, we're already like cutting our budget drastically halfway through the season. Right, right. That's what's happening. Yes. Yes. So this is Cisco's meeting with the press, Jericho, and Cisco's here to basically run through what's happened with the whole Dominion threat. He kind of runs them through it.

And I like it because he sort of takes, he doesn't just come out and say like, you're in danger, you know, he just said, you know, he just said it. This is this happened, this happened. Yeah, let me explain it to you, right? Then he does say, he explains that there is a conspiracy going on. And he talks about Red Squad and the fact that it's federation. It was a federation officers, basically. It was Starfleet that caused the power outage.

And the president, obviously, understandably, thinks that's a lot of poop. He's like, no, there's no way. It's impossible. Very skeptical. Says it. Yeah. Cisco says Starfleet is. to over, yeah, Starfleet, Cisco's whole point is Starfleet is trying to overthrow and override the Federation government, right, the president and everyone in the Federation.

Exactly. Starfleet, these military guys are trying to, a coup, basically. Yes, it's a military coup, yes. Yes. And they're trying, yeah, and they explained, Leighton asked, they know that Leighton asked the president for more security earlier, but the president said no the first time. Right. And so then. after the bombing the president said well i did agree to some of the measures not all of them but with the power outage cisco says they got what they wanted this coup this group of coup people got what they wanted and they may not stop there right so the president says bring me some proof yeah you know this sounds crazy to me but bring me some hard evidence that layton was a part of it and i'll deal with it right yeah yeah cisco yeah exactly and why would he want to do this power outage late he wants to make it look like the dominion is behind this to cause fear that's right to make the

president say okay let's reenact let's have the military run everything let's have troops on the entire time so yeah so that's i forgot that slice there is danger there is danger but they don't know exactly what it is and this is somebody trying to control the situation yes thank you doesn't work doesn't it No, it does not. Because also it's like, you need to wait until it's actually happening. Yeah. Yeah.

So basically. Do we already know there's only four change things? Not yet. No. They don't know if there's one. They don't know if there's a thousand. We only learn that when we see scary O'Brien. But that's not yet.

Oh, yeah. That's a little bit later. That's a little bit later. But it's so funny because look at this. It's latent trying to control everything. If he tried to, if he let go, he would have been fine. He would not be, he would still be an abler. Yeah, but yeah, it's, yeah, there we go.

Well, we go to Cisco's restaurant next. It's nighttime in the restaurant. Nogg shows up. He tells Cisco that he can't find any of the Red Squad. He can't find Shepard. None of them. They've all disappeared. Yeah.

Layton shows up. What? Yeah. This is not good news. When he said that Cadet Shepard has disappeared, all the Red Squad disappeared, what did you think? Right then, Robbie. What did you think right then? I thought he killed them or something.

Terry, did you think that they were assassinated at that point? I thought Shepard was for sure. For sure, yes. Or like, you know, put in prison or something for telling Cisco. Right, yeah. I thought he was taken out. So I was like, oh, my God, this is crazy. Yeah, no, I can't find any of the top guys.

No, that's bad. to be. And Nog really wants to be in Red Squad. Yeah, he does. Well, Layton shows up. So clearly Layton and his bad guy team know what Sisko's up to. Oh, yeah. And he sends Nog back to quarters immediately, wants to talk to Cisco privately. Otis says, I'll wait in the next room, in case you need me. And it's a nice scene between Layton and Cisco here. Basically, Layton is telling Cisco, you've got to respect the chain of command. Trust me. Trust me. He tells him about this mission. He recalls this mission that they were on when they were fighting the Zen kethi, Zen kethi. This is when they were on the Okinawa. That was their

starship. Yep. And Cisco didn't agree with Layton's decisions. And he argued adamantly, you know, against what Leighton wanted to do. But in the end, Cisco agreed to the chain of command. and they did what Leighton wanted. And that was the right choice, too. And it was the right choice. Yeah, he acknowledges that. Cisco says it was the right choice back then. Yeah.

And so Leighton's saying, Layton's going, just trust me again, trust me. Yeah. And Cisco says, I can't. Not this time. Not this time. And Leighton says, well, then you're relieved of your post. And you're ordered to go back.

And he was very testing when he said you're relieved of your post. Yeah. Yeah. Go back to DS9. sends him back to DS9. I like Cisco's line in the middle of the scene where he says, so you're willing to destroy paradise in order to save it. I like that line because it's so, it's also timely.

That struck out to me too when he said that. Like you say you're trying to save something, but then the cure for that destroys the very thing that makes it so great. The things that need to be improved aren't improved by scaring people and doing what Leighton's doing. This is not going to make it better. We're back at Starfleet headquarters. I love Robbie's note,

Miles surprises Cisco by the Paramount Fountain. This is evil O'Brien. I didn't realize that was the Paramount Fountain, but it was. So there's a big fountain. Oh, yes, we know it well. Yeah, we know it quite well. By that famous gate. And then the Paramount Theater,

the big theater that's the screening room is right there. Right down the street from my trailer. Right. I'm sorry. It's just, it was a note to me. It's, it's got my,

my, my, my, my, my, my, my, by the Paramount Mountain.

Okay, so O'Brien shows up. He's so casual, right? Well, it is on earth. Right. He's like, beautiful evening,

isn't it? And then, you know, Cisco's like, chief, how did you get here? Oh, you don't look so good.

And then as they speak, O'Brien's like, you know, I didn't come on the Defiant. And that's when Cisco knows, you're not O'Brien. You're not O'Brien. Yeah, and he is acting weird.

I mean, he's acting like a totally different person, which is cool. Yes. But did it occur to you guys that this could have been a scene with a character, a guest star, playing someone coming over to talk to Cisco and then saying, Yes. It occurred to me that that would have been, in a way, more effective than O'Brien because they didn't have a morph. Like, he didn't morph into O'Brien.

He didn't, he didn't morph from. O'Brien, you know, Colin and got up, stood up and walked away. It might have been a little scarier if it were somebody we didn't know. I think so. Okay. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, but this is also an opportunity, I feel, that they could have included Armin, because he wasn't in this episode. This is how he could have been in the episode. That's true. If he was the guy, if he walked up.

Yeah. Yeah. Especially because on top of it, he looks so bizarre in that setting of earth. Yes, yes. And this is. Or if it had been latent or if. if it had been this cadet, like one of those actors.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who shows up and you think they belong here. Like, as soon as O'Brien was there. Is this the only place O'Brien's in this episode? He's in the defiant, isn't he? I think. You know what? It would have been scarier if they had the Shepard actor do this.

Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, the one that we couldn't find. Beautiful evening, isn't it, Captain? And it was like, Shepard, what are you doing here? Oh, my God, genius idea. That would have been way better. You're right. Genius idea.

There you go. Shepard. Yep. Ooh, look at us. We're writing the show right now. What? Robert.

We are a creative table of writers. Oh my. We're the writer's room. And they wouldn't have had to pay the guest star any more money. No. No. I would have been so smart. Well, they were paying O'Brien anyway.

The shepherd idea is a well thought out. Yes. It would have been creepier. And it would have. Yes. Because we, yeah, because we all think he's dead. And it would have. Stardled Cisco even more like, oh my gosh.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, you're here. They found you. Yeah, it would have been great, really good. You know, everyone's looking for you? Yes, yes, yes. This is the scene where he says there's only four. Yeah, that's the one.

This is the scene. Yes, after the 10. Okay, right, right, right. And also the whole, you know, O'Brien, or changeling O'Brien informed Cisco that the changelings have absolutely zero fear of Starfleet. None of all. They feel they are superior to humans. They are superior to the Federation and to Starfleet, definitely.

And also that one line, when he says, do you really believe that phaser rifles will do any good against shapeshifters? It's sort of like, uh-oh, you know, even the technology that Starfleet has is not going to be effective on these shapeshifters. And Earth is in trouble. Starfleet Federation is in trouble. Yeah, I like his line you're talking about they didn't have any fear. He says, evil O'Brien says, and most importantly, we do not fear you the way you fear us.

In the end, it's your fear that will destroy you. 1,000%. Oh, yeah. And isn't that true for all of us? That's true for everything. Every walk of life, every occupation in the world, it's fear that destroys your advancement, your growth. All of it. Everything. It stops you, dead in your tracks right there.

And at the end, I love this. Just go, are you finished? And O'Brien, finished, we've barely begun. I'll be seeing you. And it's just like, and then he gets up and walks away instead of morphing into something else. And flying off or whatever, right? That would have been creepier. Yes.

No money. No money. We go to Cisco's restaurants. But we have Wharf. Yes. We go to Cisco's restaurant next. Cisco is brooding. He's very, he's just overthinking everything.

And Joseph sees it. He says, I recognize that look. And then Joseph tells him about the time that he had a crush on Neffi Beaumont. And this is something only a dad, right? Yeah. Only a dad would know. We remember when you had a crush on Neffi and you were breathing over her. How about they remember people that you don't remember and you're like, what?

Yeah. I like that name. Okay, sorry to me. Yeah, that's all right. I love the name. Neffi Beaumont. I believe that name. It's a very Cajun, Louisiana.

I don't believe the next name. I believe the first name, though. Yes. Yeah, Nephi Beaumont's good, but he was brooding. He was in such pain because he was so scared and afraid to go ask her out. And Joseph says, remember, I told you to stop brooding, do something. And I guess he did ask her out. And she said, no.

He said, didn't that feel better? And then the other girl moves in the next week. What was her name? Zoe Phillips, which is not as believable of a name, unfortunately. But Zoe moves in a few weeks later, and you asked her out before her parents were even done beaming in the furniture and they dated for three years so he goes once you you know stop overthinking stop brooding and take some action yeah the actual advice something will happen even if it's not the thing you want something else will happen because of that action so yes the advice that's

dad gave cisco and i just want to read cisco's line he says there comes a time in every man's life or woman's life when he or she must stop thinking and start doing I'm thinking and start doing. Yes, let's all do that. Yeah, that sounds great. And again, budget, they didn't have enough budget to change her name from Zoe Phillips. I was hoping that'd make you laugh. But we have Mike Gajun name.

But we have Michael Dorn. We have Michael Dorn. And then I was thinking, it's not just your salary. It's your wardrobe, the makeup, the makeup person to do your makeup. I mean, there's a lot of. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Okay. You humans are less expensive than a alien. I'm cheap. I'm dirt cheap. Ben gets up after dad leaves and gives him the story of Zoe Phillips and Nephi Beaumont. Nephi Beaumont. And Cisco heads in the kitchen.

My first thought was, oh, more milk. He's going to get some milk. Later, Cisco is talking to DS9. Yes. Instead of milk, he has a secret conversation. with Kira and he says we learned that he's on a bajoran frequency she's like

why are you on a bajor frequency I don't want anybody to hear what we're talking about Right What's the status? Yes what's whisperer And Kira says the wormhole Stop opening and closing right after they left And Cisco says

Good I need you to do something So we don't know what he's thinking But he's definitely taking action Like his dad said which is a good thing. So we see Kira on the monitor, right? So she's on the view screen. This is one of,

I think this is the only episode of DS9 where there's not a single scene shot on the station. Everything is away. Oh, that's right. Defiant or Earth. Yeah, it's defiant or Earth. That's it. Or the Paramount Fountain.

Or the Paramount Fountain. That's it. Location. Yeah. Yeah. Which is rare. The station's all rare. Oh, please.

Ops is like so happy to have us out of their ferment, get some quiet. Yes, exactly. Yes, yes, yes. We're back in Cisco's San Francisco office at Starfleet headquarters. Odo breaks into some Starfleet files, and I like that he says, I learned that Cisco's like, oh, I didn't know it was so easy to break in Starfleet files. Odo says, everything I know I learned from Quark.

I like that, too. Yeah. But then they start talking about that he's reassigned over 400 officers in the three weeks. We get the names. And as they're talking about this information, the cameras wrapping around them in a close-ups back and forth. I just loved, you know, we don't see that kind of camera movement on Star Trek often. And I thought, Reza did a good job with that. Reza did a great job. Yeah. And also that's where the budget went. Yes. Yes. The 400 reassigned officers, a lot of them were all people

that had worked underneath Layton in prior when he was on the ship, when he was commanding the ship. And they're all, they've all been reassigned to key positions on earth, which means like he's setting up his cabinet right now. You know, it's like, this is

going to be all the key people that I need to be a military dictator, yes. Well, he's putting all his friends in. Yes. So he has total control. And Cisco decides to copy all of these files onto his pad. That's going to be the evidence he needs for the president. And suddenly

Bentine arrives and Odo leaves. And Bentine, we learn, is going to be, she's been assigned to the Lakota. She's been promoted to captain of the Lakota. Sisko mentions he's got a couple weeks of leave that he's owed and he's going to stay and visit his family and take advantage of being on earth. So. Yeah. Earlier, when he downloads that information, he says, this is all I need. He does it by placing it right on the, just like we have that technology now, in terms of tapping our cards. I can touch my iPhone to your iPhone and my information goes into yours. So it's this, track already did this way before technology finally started catching up.

Yeah, we didn't catch up on the pads yet. Remember, you mentioned this a long time ago in the first season, how we had like a pad for everything and now we have a computer. So they got some things right and something's a little off. Yeah, but this one was right, though. It is. I did find it odd at the end of the scene because he's talking about leave and he's kind of talking out to the room and she comes and lean, you know, stands next to him and they're both kind of facing the camera. I don't know if you remember, but to me, this I did not like.

It felt like false staging to me. It felt a little theatrical like they're in a stage and they're both sort of facing the audience. It was a little strange, but... Yeah. I think that happens on Star Trek sometimes, though, because it's the... That kind of nod to Shakespeare. Yeah, the theatricality, the heightened kind of thing.

Reality, yeah. Because she's literally at the end of the scene saying, you're a very interesting man, Captain. And I thought to myself, well, then why aren't you looking at him? Why are you... I know, right? Where you're standing facing out? Yeah, so bizarre.

Before that line... Cisco says, and this is Ira Stephen Bear's favorite line in the entire episode. With a Starfleet officer on every corner, Paradise has never seemed so well armed. That was his favorite line, that little bit right there. Paradise has never seemed so well armed. Terrifying. It is terrifying. It is terrifying.

We go to the president's office again, Leighton, Benton, there's armed security presence. Cisco walks in, he's surprised to see Leighton there. And they asked, Beneteen is there, asked to see his arm. They take his blood. Didn't you know before they did it? It's a setup. Mm-hmm. But how?

How? Yeah. How does his blood turn shape-shifty? Like, how do they? I don't, that's my question. And then it's funny because the next scene, there is. It has to be a rigged machine that's not even taking his blood, but basically releasing it from the cartridge into it.

Right. Yeah. Right. But it's definitely confusing because of the next scene when Cisco's in the bridge, that's the first thing he asked. Are you going to tell me how you fake the blood test? And Layton's like, does it matter? And that was all I was thinking about. It didn't write of the story. Yeah. It took me out of the story. Because all I'm thinking is like, what device did they have? How did you do that? Yeah. And Layton's response is, does it matter? Right. That's like, yeah. Good way to like, good writer technique to not answer. Actually. To avoid it. Yeah. But.

Leighton does say he feels guilty about doing this to Ben, but Starfleet's going to take command of Earth. And Cisco's like, well, how long? How long do you have to have this military takeover? Months, years, decades? Yeah. Is this forever? And Leighton doesn't even respond.

He goes, however long it takes. So he's willing to make, to destroy paradise and turn it into a military occupation. Put up a parking lot. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I love at the end, just to show that he's still a good guy. He's like, if you need anything, food, something to read.

I know. Isn't it crazy? Like, since I was going to like, can you bring me a couple of, you know, novels that I need? No, he's not going to want to read anything right now. Oh, come on. Oh, my word. Well, later, he's in the brig for a while and a security person comes through, officer comes through doing routine blood checks on everybody.

Rez's daughter. Rez's daughter? And Cisco asks for one, hey, you know, take my blood. It distracts them all long enough, the two, the security officer taking the blood and the guard that's there whose blood is being taken. It distracts them. Cisco's distraction works, automorphs. What does he morph from?

I didn't see it. I couldn't see either. Was he the tray that she brought in on part of the tray? Yeah, he popped out of nowhere, literally. Yeah. Okay. Did you notice that he did a little? Vulcan neck pinch?

Yes. I did. Yes. Can they do that? Why not? He's a changeling. So when Odo rescues Cisco, he uses what appears to be a Vulcan nerve pinch. The reason the producers had him do this was simple.

We ran out of money for the morphs, explains Robert Ewood Wolfe. Yeah. Clearly. And period. And. Dean. But again, it's funny that a changeling is utilizing a Vulcan technique of you know, stopping somebody

and putting someone out. It's weird. It was weird to me. I wish you just punched her. Yeah, just karate chapter or the double-handed double-handed. Double-thick. Yeah.

Something like that. Yes, thank you. Yeah. Anyways, he breaks Cisco out. And we learned the defiance on its way to Earth, that they were right. They found the officer responsible. And they have to-

Responsible for what? Responsible for, that's my question. For the power outage. Oh, he's the main. guy that did the power outage then. Okay, got it. Yes, Lieutenant Ariaga. They got him on the Defiant and they're going to take him back. But then isn't Layton responsible? So he's like his second henchman. It must be part of the Red Squad. They found somebody that they, right, that they sent off or something. I guess. Maybe it was another officer under Layton that they

was on the list. Maybe it was the list of people that they found. Oh, wait. Do you remember when And Cisco is interrogating Shepard for the first time. Yeah. He says, like, how did this come about? And Shepard goes, well, we were told by the officer that this would not be in official records. And they're like, oh, who's the officer? A female officer. So maybe Lieutenant Ariaga is that officer that told her.

They've got somebody. Yes. Our fans right now, we're going, you guys, catch up. Exactly. You're so slow, guys. Come on. Cisco does tell Odo to go tell the president everything that's happening about the defiant, all of that. And that Leighton's going to make his move today.

Yeah. And Cisco says he's got something to do. So Odo's off to the president to spill the beans. And Cisco's doing something. We don't know what he's doing yet. We're about to find out because he goes in a blink of an eye. In the blink of an eye. in the edit of some film,

we jump into Layton's office. There's a book on editing called Blink of an Eye. That's a great title. It's a great book about editing. If there's any film nerds out there that want to read about filmmaking and kind of esoteric philosophy, the blink of an eye is a great. I have that book.

Oh, you do? Yeah, it's a good book. Yeah, it's a great book. You know what I find funny that during this whole interaction with Benton, obviously this whole Lakota and defiant battle begins, right? But Cisco,

he puts his phaser away. He hides it when Bentine is on the view screen. And then he hides it again, which is, I get that with Bentine, but why would you hide it when Worf is on screen? You see what I'm saying?

Like, Warf is on your team. Maybe he didn't know who was going to be on the, I don't know. I found the whole thing to be a little weird because when he comes in, he takes he takes Leighton's combat right away.

So anybody he tells he takes his combatge he tells Leighton we know the whole plan they've got Lieutenant Ariega Leighton sent the Dakota

we know all that Leighton's like well fine if you know all that but I already have the Lakota headed there and I've told the Lakota crew

that the defiant crew has been replaced by shapeshifters Right so it seems like Leighton's got the upper hand here. Correct.

But when we come back in Leighton's office Cisco tells Leighton that this is going to open a Pandora's box. He says other members of the Federation Alliance will not stand for Starfleet overthrowing this legitimate president. Leighton says to Cisco, says to Cisco says no. And then Leighton says, well, I guess we're going to open this Pandora's box together. So there's this back and forth between them, you know, kind of dancing around who's

Salad. Yeah. Who's got the power here? Yeah. When the fight begins, though, we learn the Lakota has upgraded weapons, and Worf even says we can't cloak without lowering our shields. We never can. Yeah.

So, it's a rule. Warf says, let's fight. Let's do this. Boom, boom, boom. Lots of, lots of great explosion. Poor shields are at 60%. Yes. Sorry, you couldn't help myself.

I got excited. Hey, your big line. I was really, here's a question. When the Defiant fires, it has regular phasers, which is a long beam, which goes, it's just continuous beam, right? Right. And it has the do do, do, do, do, do where it shoots out like five or six really. Phaser pulses, not photon torpedoes, correct? Yes, yes.

Got it. Phaser pulses. I think so. All right. So the battle's begun. We go back to Layton's office. He talks to Cisco about loyalty. I wish you would learn.

You'd learn so many things for me, but I wish it would. learned loyalty and Cisco says I thought that I knew who you were before that you had honor you had principal yeah but um he was mistaken and this is when bentine calls yeah and this is when he puts the phaser behind his back again and part of me was like no the first time right the next time is when wharf calls so that's he only teach he does it twice and this is the first time he does it yeah yeah he does it he does it here with bentine and then again later yeah i felt like like she should have known because he didn't have on a combat. Oh, yeah.

And also Cisco is supposed to be in the brig. Like she doesn't comment. Like, why are you standing? Are you still there? Yeah. Yeah. Why are you standing by my avenue? I thought that was weird, looking back on that, that he was free and that nobody was like having

a problem with it. But then I just figured they took his test and they now know he's not a changeling. So they let him go. Right. Right. Like so Layton and his underlings. know what his Layton was doing

but nobody else did as soon as they know he's not a changeling he's okay but why am I thinking all of this while I'm watching the show right it's too much

Bentine hails Layton talking about there she's unable to stop the defiant someone has equipped the defiant with a blade of armor and neglected

to inform Starfleet operations so they can't stop the defiant laden's like look under no circumstances will that ship reach Earth I am not going to allow this to happen. Lakota has quantum torpedoes, correct?

Benton's like, yes, but Layton's like, use them. Betten's like, my orders were to disable the defiant, not destroy her. And Layton's like, your orders are to keep the defiant from reaching Earth and use any means necessary. Do you understand this? And yeah, Benton's like, okay, all right.

So she... Yes, sir. Yeah, yes, sirs. She's like, yeah, but that, well, Cisco does say to her before she disappears. Yes. He says, you know as well as I do that there's no shapeshifers on that. On the Defiant. Right.

Yes. And if you use them, you're going to kill over 50 Starfleet officers if you destroy the Defiant. Right. And that really lands on her before she signs off. Most definitely. Just the way she says, yes, sir, at the end. He goes, you have your order. She's like, yes, sir.

You knew that there was a little bit of something going on there. Something's wrong here. So now we're on the bridge of the Defiant. Go back there. We learn from Dax that the shields are almost gone. All systems are failing. Basically, both of these ships have been fighting, you know, booming each other and fighting each other so hard that whoever takes the next shot is going to destroy the other one. If the Defiant shoots the Starfleet ship, it'll kill everybody there. If the Starfleet ship, you know, shoots the Defiant, they're going to lose it. So this is the moment where one of those captains has to make a decision. So Worf says, killing everyone on that ship is not an option. And I loved that moment where Worf is adhering to Starfleet principles. Totally. He's not going to kill everybody. Totally.

And that's what's so great about Warf. And then thank goodness they're hailing us. Yes. Thank goodness they're hailing us. Yes. Yes. Yes. And not only that, they've powered down their weapons, which is awesome, which means Benton was

like, they know too. They know. They know. They know. She did the right thing. And that's not who we are. Yeah. Right.

Very good. Hopefully she's said on her ship, killing everyone on the Defiant is not an option. Power down the web. I think she did. I think she did. I'm imagining. There's a little Janeway in her.

Yes. She does. We're back in Layton's office. Worf calls Cisco. Yeah. And there's a lot of casualties, but the Defiant is headed to Earth again. Layton does say, though, well, Ben, you're screwed because now my men are going to know where you are from the call you made to Wharf and Cisco says that doesn't matter if they know where I'm out

or if I get out. It doesn't matter because Odo has already gone to the president and he's telling him everything. Yeah. And also the news also, Worf gives them is that the Lakota has powered down its weapons and is allowing us to proceed to earth. So that is the other good news that we have. Well, Leighton gets very upset in this. He screams, it's at one point. We didn't hear any of that. It's not over. He said, we didn't hear any of that, Robbie. It's not. over. But Robbie'd made a very good face of it. We just didn't hear him say it. It's not over. Okay, that's better. Because it was the Zoom software that was stopping it from coming through because it was so shrill. And then now that you pulled it back a little bit, we heard it.

Thank you. Okay, good. Yeah. It was very, it was theatrical and dramatic. It was huge. Yeah, it was great. Robert Soft Foxworth did a great job. So great. And Zoom went, yeah. We're not showing that. Much too loud. Much too loud. Yes. I did like. in this scene where Cisco says, who are you going to fight then? You know, if you think it's not over, you're going to fight the Federation? Yeah. And he says, you're fighting the wrong war. Yeah.

Which I thought was great. Yeah. Timely, timely, timely, timely, timely. Been teens already abandoned you. Mm-hmm. And she was closer to you than anyone, Cisco says. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, Leighton finally takes his pips off, sets him down on the table and says, I hope you're not the one making a mistake. Ben, and he leaves. He gets to just walk? He gets to just walk, right? Okay. Apparently, we have to get back to Deep Space Nights. There's no time to prosecute him.

To arrest him. That would be part three. The budget, it wasn't in the budget to arrest him. No, he gets to go home. Good. I like this last scene at Cisco's restaurant. It's the place, we see security beam away through the window, and then we pan over. It feels like life is coming back.

Joseph says, you know, if those security people had stayed, it wouldn't be Earth anymore. Like living like that with military on our streets everywhere and living in fear is not what Earth is meant to be. And I love that. I love Joseph's perspective, the kind of every man, you know, straightforward perspective. Yep. I agree. Odo worries about the changeling that are still on Earth.

Cisco says, well, we're not going to help the changelings destroy all the good that we've created. I thought was great. They're going to have to do it. If they want to destroy Earth, they have to do it themselves. We're not going to help them. No, but I like how Joseph admits, like, look, I'm not only worried, I'm scared to death. Yeah.

But you still have to get through your life day to day. Mm-hmm. So you have, you can't let it run you. Right. Exactly. I did, did you notice when Renee stepped back to get ready for the beam out, he looked down at his mark. Did you see that? I, yeah.

But I didn't see the look down at a mark. But the step back for them to group together for the beam out to me was kind of funny. Because you should be able to beam three people out without them standing exactly next to each other. Yes. But he looked at his mark, though. Yeah, he kind of took a look at his mark and then stood right next to Ben. Also, when Cisco beams out, he says three to beam up, he doesn't hit his con badge. Like, that's weird.

Yeah, that's a normal thing too. So did he hail them earlier and he was talking before? As used to directing, so he didn't remind everybody. Maybe. Because that's a weird thing to forget to do. Yeah, he didn't hit his combat. He just says, three to be him out and they disappear. And the funny thing with Renee is, if he was directing and you look down at your mark, you would have gotten an earful.

Yeah. See, that's a thing. Whenever I had a mark that was crucial, I said, don't give me a mark. Give me a sandbag so I can, my foot will knock up against it, right? Yeah. So I don't have to look. Or you come in a little before. And rehearsal and this is what I would do.

I'd rehearse it on my own, yes. Or while they're finishing lighting, right? Yeah, you know the whole thing. Yes. And there are these kind of steps. That's smart. You know, like, what your cadence, what your rhythm. Yeah, whatever.

Yeah. That's smart. So while before you even go in to shoot the scene, come and rehearse it beforehand. Yeah, the blocking. Yep. It's imperative. It's a professional thing. We had a camera assistant named Chris Ishi.

Did you have Chris Ishi, Terry, ever? He was our focus puller, not our camera assistant. right focus pull it well that's first first assistant camera is it is that when you have did you guys ever have jonathan west no we did not oh gosh it's so funny because that is the crew i remember best because it was the second half right in the beginning was marvin when you're so nervous yeah it's like you just remember who's in your face because you've got like too many it's there are too many learning curves going on at the same time well chris used to say if If you had trouble hitting a mark, he'd go, do you want me to put down here?

No, he's Asian. That was Billy something. Billy Pete. Yes. Billy Peets was the gaffer. Love Billy. But Chris would say, if you had trouble hitting a mark, Chris would say, do you need a landing strip? Do you want me to put down a landing?

And he would put down these long, like, it was like a V so you could see outside of your peripheral vision. Wow. Oh, cool. He used to do that for Kate. Really? When Kate had to walk all around, like if she was wandering around and talking to someone on the view screen, she didn't want to look down. And so he would put these long pieces of tape that you could see out of your peripheral vision that would sort of guide you into. That's genius. What a great idea.

It's a great idea. But I think he only offered that to Kate. I never got offered that. You never got a landing strip? No. Did you get a landing strip ever? I think I did. Yeah. Really?

Okay. Well, in truth, how much? often were you pacing the entire not much for me yeah right yeah she did it all the time he had all the time she had honestly whoever whoever is the captain is there so much more than the rest of us for sure kudos they should have every luxury to help them out because they're sleep deprived like we all were sleep deprived but they're in almost every single episode almost every single Lots of scenes, yes. That's exhausting. Joseph opens the door and the restaurant roars back to life and people are happy and it's like, it's like the old days.

It is like the old days. I want to smell that jumbo yaya. Yes, please. Jumbo yeah, yeah. It sounds really good right now. Yes, well, we're done. We've recapped it. Yay. Two-parter. We did it? Yeah, the two-parter. Lesson. Moral. What's the lesson you're going to get from this episode, Robbie? And then, Terry. My lesson was trust in positive, hopeful, the good in humanity, and also trust in the facts. You know, trust, but verify that really what you think is true is true. Make sure it's really true. It's something we all need to do every day, literally, yeah. Because other things.

otherwise fear and paranoia are going to drive you to do horrible things. So I don't know what the simple version of that is, but that's my lesson. I get it. I don't know what you're saying. Good one. Terry, your lesson for this. Be skeptical. Same thing. Which is, but be skeptical and keep an open mind. Because if you're negatively skeptical, it isn't quite the same as having an open mind, but be skeptical. You know, don't create, be an open-minded skeptic, is what you're saying. There you go. Thank you.

I need help. I got it. Okay. I'm going to say, beware of fear, the ultimate saboteur. That's one lesson. My other lesson is from Joseph, from Joseph Cisco. It comes a time when someone needs to stop thinking and start doing. I like it.

Yeah, it's good. Our Patreon poll winner for the theme moral of this episode is submitted by Chris. Chris with a key. In the end, it's your fear that will destroy you. Yeah. Very good. Yep. And it's your hope that will save you.

I like, thank you for adding that. I just added that to the Patreon. I know. And it's just beautiful. We need that. All right. Well, that is the end of our podcast. Thank you, everyone for tuning in.

Please join us next time when we will have Armand joining us to recap and discuss Crossfire. And, of course, we want to thank Terry for joining us for this one as always. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. My pleasure, I'm going to send you some love. Yay. Oh, she gave us all the hearts.

We love it. We love it. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for a little more Terry and your bonus material. For everyone else, we'll see you next time. Bye. Bye, everybody. Bye.