The Delta Flyers - Parturition

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Parturition. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.Parturition:During a shuttle mission to replenish food supplies, Neelix and Lt. Paris discover an embryonic pod and become caretakers of the hatching infant.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise, and Rebecca Jayne, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Eve Mercer, Sarah A Gubbins, Ann Marie Segal, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Jason Self, Daniel Adam, Chris Knapp, Michelle Zamanian, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Megan Hurwitt, James Zugg, Mike Gu, and Shannyn Bourke.And our Producers: Chris Tribuzio, Jim Guckin, Peter Patch, Steph Dawe Holland, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Deborah Schander, Eleanor Lamb, Thomas Melfi, Breana Harris, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Father Andrew Kinstetter, Ann Harding, Gay Kleven-Lundstrom, Gregory Kinstetter, Laura Swanson, Ryan Watkins, Máia W, Luz R, Charity Ponton, Josh Johnson, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Katie Johnson, Craig Sweaton, Maggie Moore, Ryan Hammond, Nathanial Moon, Warren Stine, York Lee, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, Dave Grad, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Katherine Puterbaugh, Claire Deans, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Cutler, Crystal Komenda, Joshua L Phillips,  Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Oliver Campbell, Selina Zhong, Anna Post, Evette Rowley, Robert Hess, Cindy Ring, Nathan Butler, Terry Lee Hammons, Andrei Dunca, Paul Whitsett, James Keel, Daniel Owen, Brian Jordan, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, and Amber Nighbor. Thank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers. We are a weekly podcast that discusses episodes of Star Trek Voyager in chronological order. Your two hosts along this podcast journey are myself, Garrett Wong, aka Ensign Harry Kim, and Robert Duncan McNeil, aka Lieutenant Tom Harris. If you're interested in either an extended version, of this podcast, or the extended video version of this podcast, both of which include added bonus segments. Check out our Patreon page at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron. Hello, Mr. Robbie McNeil. How are you? Hello, I'm good, although you didn't add a descriptive thing for fabulous bonus material or exciting or, you know, like stinky bonus material. It could be like that. Yes, yes, yes. Sometimes the adjective factory has to have, you know, they have to have, they have to shut down just a little bit.

Yeah, I understand. That makes sense. So I will promise you an adjective for the next. Yeah, I look forward to the, you know, the itchy bonus material. Yes, the itch. I've never said itchy, but I've said fabulous. I've said sexy. We've had sexy bonus material yet.

We've had different adjectives and that will continue. So my apology to you, sir. Yes. And I should apologize to you because I, I think I had promised at some point that I would do another interpretive dance of the introduction. You're right. You know, so maybe we'll get, maybe I should do an interpretive dance to something else in this, in this opening section. So I'm ready. If we come up with it, I'm going to, I've stretched, I've warmed up.

I feel like I'm ready for an interpretive dance if we find the moment. We'll see. All right. This week's episode is parturition, a mouthful, parturition. Parturition. What does parturition mean?

We'll have to look that up later, for sure. Parturition is a term that I am not familiar with, but I'm sure we'll figure that out as we review this episode. Maybe it's something to do with like relationships or something. Because I think my memory is... I'll go with that. Something like that. Robbie and I are going to go and watch Parturition

and make some notes and come back and discuss. What's different about this episode is that we have a wonderful guest joining us for the review. So stay tuned for that. And for those of you... Who are our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for a little segment that we call What Do We Remember?

All right, guys, we just got back from watching Parturition. Yes, we did. I love this episode. Yeah. Hands down. I agree. Very good show. It was a great episode.

And look who we've got with us. Ethan Phillips. The Neelix. The Neelix is here live in person. We are so honored to have. Ethan Phillips, and we refer to him as Johnny, so don't be confused, if you hear that, if we say John. You know why I have that nickname

because of my impersonation of Johnny Carson. I always had that nickname. Here's Johnny. Yeah. Robbie, did you know this? Ethan Phillips and I would share this little, we would have this little moment where we would do dueling Johnny Carson's. We would like, remember that?

Oh, that's funny. I did not, I did not know that. This is funny stuff. Yeah, this is really. Garrett Wong. Ed, did you know Garrett? I did not, I didn't know, I didn't know, I sometimes I played that. Yeah, I did not know that.

Yeah, we would do that back and forth. That's funny. You know who was the best Ed McMahon I've ever been, because I've done this a long time when I've had to make. Yeah. Is Beltrane? Oh, no. No, Beltran was good, but.

Oh, Michael Dorn. Michael Dorn. Is it really? He's a good Ed McMahon? Oh. I can picture that, actually. I can imagine that he would be very good. Oh, I'd love to hear that.

I can't wait to ask him to do that. It's like he listened, he channels him or something. He's got it really perfect. I didn't know he had voices in his voice. I did not, I did not know that. I did not know that. We did not know that. That's right.

This episode is written by Tom Zolosi, if I pronounce that correctly, hopefully, directed by our friend Jonathan Frakes. So this is the second Jonathan Frakes directed episode. Yeah. Do you guys remember how? it was working with Jonathan, Ethan, on this particular episode? Any thoughts of this? Yeah, I worked with Jonathan on First Contact, and he's an extraordinarily efficient director. I mean, there's no fat in his notes. There's no hanging out because he's indecisive. He knows exactly

what he wants, and he just, boom, he goes for it. So you feel like very comfortable and free and relaxed. The other thing I love about Franks is that he loves actors. He really, truly, he loves actors and the craft and so he lets them know what he loves. I remember that when he was directing this episode. It's like he would come in and just, and it wasn't bullshit, it was true. He was like, that was so full of heart or that was, that was amazing. Like he just, he's such a positive cheerleader and lover of the court. Mostly you just hear moving on, you know.

And he was always. he's there with the, you know, everybody likes a pat on the back. Yeah, and it was great to have him like that, yeah. Well, if I'm going to pitch in my two cents on freaks, I would just have to say that when he's on set and you're there with him, his energy is palpable. You can feel that energy immediately and that passion that he has for directing and talking to the actors, you know, and collaborating with us. So it's really, it's a nice energy to have. You know, you know that he's not there phoning it in. He's there 100% and ready to. work and be creative, right?

Exactly, yeah. It makes you want to put in 100% as well. For sure, definitely. So one of the things that when I watched the show, one of the first lines was when we were, I don't remember anything about this show. I don't making, I mean, it's like watching a hole in your life. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I did this, did this short film when I was in graduate school, 45 minute long film, which I had one of the leads in. And this is way back in 1847. Yeah. They didn't even have film back then, but you made one. And we made one. All I remembered was the director's name. And I googled him.

This is about eight years ago. And his name was, I can't remember his name now, but I remembered it. And three of these people with this name came up. And I figured out one of them was in a bookstore in San Diego. I thought, this might be the guy. So I emailed him.

This is four decades later. And I said, will you by any chance? The guy at Cornell University who made blah, blah, blah. And he said, yes, yes, I was. And I said, you know, I never saw it. He said, I'll tell you what, I'll send you a copy. And if you make some DVDs of it and give me a copy of the DVD, you know, we'll be square.

So he sent me the film. And I had DVDs made. I actually made three. One for him, one for me, and one for the other guy, Ken Gray, who was the other lead. and I watched this film, and I remembered virtually nothing. There were whole, like, scenes where I was in a hospital, where I was on a roof, where I was climbing a ladder up to a boat. Right.

And it was like, it was like a dream. You couldn't remember making it. I remembered making it, and I remembered a couple of things about it. I remembered the first direction he gave me was. I remember the first day, it was the first direction. It was the first home I'd ever done. And he said, look, ejected, and go to the weed patch. And that was your very first on-camera direction.

On-camera direction. Look to check it and go to the weed patch. And you've been doing that ever since in your career. I took it to heart. Yeah, you really did that very first direction. It's been your marching orders ever since. Can we see this? Can Robbie and I watch this?

Would you allow us to watch this? Oh, God, no. I'm so curious. I didn't know a thing about their film acting. This was a good episode. I'll tell you why I think it's a good episode and Garrett and I've been watching all these so far up until you know all season one and this one up to episode six my biggest complaint Johnny has been of the episodes has

been when there's not character development when we go through an episode and it's all about some sci-fi idea where they don't allow it to affect the characters emotionally and resonate and let the audience get to know who these characters are it feels like an empty episode and We had a number of those. This one was so successful because I really felt like it allowed relationship and character and emotion to resonate in a beautiful way and unexpected ways. And it was really structured around an emotional journey and a character journey. Do you think that sometimes they don't do that and they do more of a sci-fi idea

because they perceive that there are viewers who like more of the sci-fi idea than they do character-driven dramas. I think you're probably right, but even if you're doing a sci-fi idea, it's got to fold back into a character's experience or else the audience isn't going to connect. They're going to hear this cool lecture about some sci-fi premise, but they're not going to feel anything. It was really good for all three characters. I mean, Garrett was really featured beautiful, beautiful violin. And we talked about this.

It's very difficult to mimic the notes on a clarinet. There's three octaves on a clarinet, those of you who know it, and it's very hard to cover the right holes to go up. And you did, I think, four or five different tunes. Yeah. And it's so not easy. You're playing the saxophone. I know how hard it is.

Even if you watch a saxophone player and you watch somebody like John Coltrane's, how the hell is he moving all over that? Darren just did it miraculously, I thought. He worked very hard. We've talked about that. He really took that seriously, so I'm glad, yeah, and you would know, Johnny. Steve Carr, who actually played each of those clarinet pieces, so it was flawless. Like, and I told Johnny, I could have got by with a, you know, definitely a serviceable version of that tune, but not, you know, not an expert.

Why did you not choose to stay with that instrument? I mean, if you had stayed with it, you'd have chops up the wazoo right now. I know. And the clarinet is so cool. Johnny, I asked the production, I asked production. I said, can I just keep this clarinet at the end of the seven years? They said, no, they wouldn't give it to me. I was shocked because I wanted to keep playing it.

But towards the end, I kind of got upset because I felt that it wasn't a hip instrument. You know, I was used to seeing president. Yeah, but President Clinton on the sax made the sax look cool, right? I remember when he was playing the sax, and I said, that's where I want. So I did ask the producers, can Harry play the sax? And towards the end, they switched my clarinet out, the saxophone if you watched the later episode. Yeah, I kind of synopsize the episode as I can briefly pull it together.

So I would say this is an episode that really pays off something that was built up over a lot of episodes, which is Neelix's jealousy and his vulnerability about his relationship with Cass. And that had been building Tom Paris and Neelix are sent on an away mission. to a planet where they crash. First of all, they don't want to go on this away mission together, but then they crash and they're stuck together. And they stumble upon this alien egg that hatches, and they've got this vulnerable baby.

This baby alien brings out their paternal instincts. It brings out who they really are underneath all of this insecurity and fear and bitterness or resentment with each other, it brings out their true nature of caretaking and compassion and all those things. And they have to problem solve together. They have to work together to take care of this baby alien.

And they become true friends. And so it's a beautiful, it's a beautiful episode. And so Kim has a great line in it, where he says, where he's talking to Jennifer, who looks stunning in it. And it's so good in it. Yeah. So he says, you know, they're going to be okay because Tom is such a great pilot and Neelix

knows how to survive. Yeah. And those are great. Just to address his jealousy for a second, he was very jealous and it was not a very attractive quality. But I think one of the reasons is because of his past where he's lost his entire race, not just his family, but his entire race. He hasn't seen it until actually even.

And so when he finds this relationship in his life, he doesn't want anything. to destroy it because it's the only thing he can hang on to in terms of a family. So I think that's one of the reasons she's so jealous. I mean, I haven't watched Voyager in so long, and I've never even seen this episode, but looking at it, I go, you can begin to see an arc of a character. Years later, you know, this is where it went. This is where it started, and this is where it ended. And you fill in a whole bunch of stuff at the time that was just, you know,

not available to you because you were so involved in just the moments. Well, as an actor, then, Johnny, did you, what did you draw upon for the, scenes where you had to show your the jealous green monster it's real emotion in fake circumstances that's all acting is so you know yeah if I was in this circumstance and I was really I have access to jealousy everybody does you know yeah so I'm just that's that's just imaginary circumstances but yeah real feeling yeah that's what we do so yeah I I just said oh you know he's got to be jealous okay yeah I mean I think at Jody Foster when they said where did

you study acting and she said I never studied acting I just thought it was pretending really well. And I thought that was one of the great answers I've ever heard about. I love that quote. That's a really great quote. You did such a great job at playing jealousy in all these episodes. And for me, I'll have to admit on this podcast that that's probably one of the biggest issues that I've dealt with in my 20s and my 30s when I was filming Voyager. And how do you feel now?

Do you feel like you've kind of conquered it a little bit? Yeah, because, you know, it's about fear, right? it's fear of losing somebody but the reality is this if somebody decides to go and sleep with somebody else they're going to make that decision no there's nothing you can do to stop that that is their choice right if they choose to do that so be it that's not the right person you want to be with unless you're in an open relationship and you're okay with that right so i also feel like i i i truly feel and i haven't come to this until my my mid 50s this this belief but whenever somebody is triggered with some emotion whether it's

jealousy or fear or anger or impatience, it's usually not the feeling about the person they're giving their emotion to. It's usually triggered in something in themselves. So in a way, jealousy for me might be the fact that, oh, I'm projecting the fact that I don't trust myself in a relationship. So I'm not trusting that person to be faithful. or truly love me because I'm not that I don't have those qualities does that make sense it's like yeah projecting with my jealousy has nothing to do with how that person behaves it's all about what what I uh who I fears about yourself yeah it's really I feel like projections is so much a part of our emotional life that when we're really find serenity and peace and things it's because we've kind

looked at ourselves and our own lack of, you know, fidelity or lack of trustworthiness or our lack of honesty, because if we deal with that, then we're creating that in our relationship. So I guess what I'm getting at is, Johnny is, in a weird way, the jealousy with Kess, because what we did find out later is he had a lot of guilt with his race, his Tlaxian race. He had a lot of, he didn't feel like he was trustworthy on some level. Well, he felt like he ran away from the battle. while it was happening. So he's, you know, he had a lot of guilt.

Yeah, a lot of guilt. And so he's kind of internalized that and kept these secrets. And so it's hard for him to trust people because it's really projecting that quality of himself in a weird way. Yeah. So Robbie goes through his long, you know, elaborate synopsis of the episode, Johnny. And then I come up with the haiku, which is the Japanese poem version, five syllables, seven syllables, 17 syllables altogether.

Yes, sir. So here we go. I'm a big fan. All right. Neelix so jealous. Assigned to mission with Tom must work together. Oh, nice.

That's great. That's really good. Yeah, yeah. Very nice. I like that. Thank you. I love the haiku summary. Okay, so the simulation, Tom and Kess are in the simulation.

Yeah. So my question to both of you is when Kess falls into Paris's arms due to the turbulence in the show. There is a look between their eyes. I felt that Kess had a little bit of falling into Paris's eyes and maybe there could have been something from her side where she started to fall for Paris.

Did either of you see that? And you as an actor, Robbie, you're looking directly into her eyes. We don't see that dead-on camera angle. We only see it from profile of both of you. What did you remember from that scene, if you do remember? Well, I made a note to myself here in that moment because it was an awkward moment. for me as an actor.

I look at that moment and I'm like, God, that felt very sexually charged, like a lot. Like, why again? And Johnny, like, I've been very critical of Tom Paris and his sort of yeah, he was basically a boorish pig

and I was really frustrated that I sort of leaned into that. I amplified those qualities that they wrote and I wish I hadn't. You know, and in that moment, we're still early in our series. And so if they write that kind of story where then Paris is going to go into Harry's quarters

and talk about how he's falling for Kess and he's like, which was a very charming scene but fundamentally, I believe what they wrote that he's falling for Kess. So I've got to play that. I've got to play that in the scene. I agree with Garrett. I definitely think that Jennifer as an actress.

Yeah. You know, you go with the moment. Yeah, yeah. You try to do. And that's whether it seems, it's always going to be the best thing. Yeah. When you go with what you're feeling,

hopefully, you know. Yeah. I do agree that Robbie played that perfectly, though. That pitch the tone of that look into her eyes, and it was such a split second of, he hit that moment, like right on the head, like, like that. It was very, it was good.

It was awkward. Yeah. Do you guys, I like Janeway's 70-looking hairstyle in this episode. It's not that matronly bunnerly steel. Thank God. I said. The first time we see her on the bridge, the thing that I questioned was when they say, you know, they want to get down to the planet because there's food down there. I think it's you or somebody says it's a full day out of our way. And I thought, where the hell are you going? Right. Right. You know, I mean, you're going to be there for, you're in the Delta climate. What's a day? A full day out of your way from where? Yeah. You have to fill up with gas or something? We're on a 70-year journey. One day. What are you talking about?

Yeah. It's so funny. That's so true though. I love that. I didn't notice when they're talking about the planet that they referred to it as Planet Hell. Yeah. We used to say that in, you know, on the crew and on set, we referred to the set over on the... Bridge Hell.

Yeah. Bridge Hell. Or they said, you gotta go down to Planet Hell was sort of like the generic name we used for all the away missions on some planet that was... caves and I don't know I never actually used stage 16 yeah stage 16 I never remember hearing that term used on the show as dialogue I always thought it was what we talked the crew called this the cave set planet hell right right you know what I mean so it was interesting to hear the actual dialogue where they called it planet hell yeah yeah I think that came from the crew yeah oh really I think so I think that yeah term of like planet hell was the

generic term for our cave set. Well, also the trigemic vapors, didn't? Well, you get a lot of, well, you get trigemic vapors. Yeah. You're in for trouble. I had some, I had some, you know, abdominal pain, but then the trigentic vapors just, you know, I just let that go, and I was fine after that. And who is, who is Ensign Baitart?

I don't know. The pilot? Why? I really wanted you to do that with Ensign Baitart, by the way. He's brought up twice. in the program, Ensign Baitart. Why don't you ask Ensign Baitart? I was originally up for Insin Baitart.

And then they realized, well, you can't, you shouldn't play both. You should relax. Right. Let's go to the scene where Kim is playing the clarinet. We're going to go back to that for a second. And when you say, Paris, when you say, play something else so quickly after I played that,

me as an actor, after having 27 hours of instruction to try to get the fingering right, and you so just cavalierly throw out, Just go play something off. I was so offended in real life. I was like, fuck you. What are you doing to me? I was really kind of, you know, feeling the, like that.

Yeah. I'm going to repeat that. I was like, screw you. I mean, that was so annoying. Yeah, thank you. But I had to hear that from you. And I remember being, you know, upset at the time. I don't care now, but.

I like that scene in your quarters, though. I got to say. It's a great scene. It's a really fun scene. I love it. Watching this episode, I was watching my cheesy extra reaction sometimes to things. And I was like, boy, I was really auditioning for like some network sitcom on that episode. I was trying all the comedy, trying to squeeze all the light comedy out of it I could find.

Your line delivery of I didn't when I looked at you and said, no, Paris, you didn't like have sex with Cassie. You went, I didn't. You did this really funky delivery of didn't. Yeah, I loved that. That was different. And I like that... I was doing a lot of sitcom acting on this stuff. Yes.

Did you notice the tug that I did when I sat down? Very small detail. A little Picardt? Yes, a lighter version of the Picard tug. I sat down and did the little tug. Never noticed that until... But that was a very relatable scene. Two guys talking about their love lives and just sort of like,

oh, I'm in love with this girl. And she's breaking my heart. And I shouldn't, but I want to. but I, you know, it just felt very relatable and real and kind of say, it was very easy, relax. Very nice scene, I thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And here we come with the,

there's an old Chinese expression. And this, Johnny, refers to the fact that the writers thought Kim was Chinese for the entire series. And in reality, Kim is the most popular Korean last name in the planet. And the funny thing is when I say, there's an old Chinese expression,

stay out of harm's way. And then Paris looks to me and says, that's not Chinese expression and you say it was such a matter of fact like you're the expert on Chinese proverbs and I'm like wow how does he and I rationalize

my rationalization of this Johnny was that I thought okay Kim is clearly Korean but while he was at Starfleet Academy he took an interest in Chinese studies so he took a lot of you know where he studied Chinese and I had no clue that they thought it was

Chinese the whole time oh my God Harry Kim yeah Kim is one of The most common Korean names. Common Korean names, exactly. My question to you, Johnny, is that the term sweeting. Did you ever ask the writers where that was, how they came up with that?

I stopped asking the writers anything after a scene I had where I was tucking that little, the first actress, young actress who played Naomi Wildman. Remember we had a little girl who was only about three or four before we had... Scarlett? Scarlet come in. And she did two episodes and she was just too young.

for the part. Right. But the first scene, I was checking her to bed and she had, it was a teddy bear. It was called a Tark, T-A-R-Q, which I guess is something that's in a lot of Star Trek. And they've had another series. So my line was, good night, Mr. Tark. I say to her, good-night, Mr. Tark. And we're filming, and I said, good-night, Mr. Tark, sir.

And I hear, cut. And who was our script line? Cosmo. Cosmo, Geno. There's no, sir. And I go, oh, and then the director, I forget who he says, do you want to say, sir? I said, yeah, it'd be funny if he says, sir.

I mean, I don't get him. Well, let's call the writers. And it took 20 minutes to get the writers to approve, sir. Well, I'm in five pounds of makeup. Yeah. And I said, I'm just going to say what they wrote. I'm not going to ask him anything. And I didn't go the next seven years.

Yeah. They just said what they wrote. Well, it's kind of amazing. You know, we've talked, Garrett and I've talked about this is that, you know, nowadays, there's always a writer on set. Always. I have not done a show in 20 years where we haven't had a writer sitting right next to the director, you know, collaborating and partnering with the director and the actors to make sure that if there needs to be a rewrite or the intention of a line or any questions from the actors about, you know, the concept of the story

or where it may be going in the future. All those things come up. We never had writers on Star Trek ever. No, we didn't. They were never there. Never there. Sometimes one of the producers might direct and he would be involved in the writing, but they had something called tone meetings, didn't they? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's a... That's about as much collaboration you had with the writers was you had a, the director would have a tone meeting where you'd go through, you spent a couple hours going through the script and they'd kind of explain what they were hoping the tone to feel like of each scene or any specific. That means that what happens in the filming, let's say that it takes on a life of its own

that's different from what the tone was. That's curtailed. That's somehow, it almost is a restraint in a way. Yeah. Let's say, let's say that they want this as a serious thing and it turns out to be very funny. They're not going to let you go there. They want to go back to the tone they set. And I think that's that's anti-creative in some ways.

Yeah. John Ethan, do you have any memories of anything that stands out in that first dinner scene with Kess early in the episode? None. Okay. Nothing. The only thing I remember about that episode was we were on the set on stage 16. It was about 9 o'clock in the evening. It was Friday night. And it was late. And I remember that I had a midnight flight out of Lacks that night. And I was just praying. that I get out in time to get to the airport. And that's the only thing I remember about that episode, and I do remember getting out in time. You made it. You made it.

But I clear as a bell, remember lying there on the floor, covered with trigemic papers and thinking, God, I hope I make that slight. I did love when Janeway pulls the doctor up on the little console next to her... The console of you... Yep. I love when he came on, because he started talking about

how he was eavesdropping. And Janeway's like, wait a minute, what? and Chacote is looking at it, and she shuts it down, which I thought was a great thing. First of all, it was a funny little scene in an exchange, but also it was important for the audience, because if the doctor can just listen in on everybody's lives all the time, that's a real creepy.

It's not good. No, it's very creepy. It's creepy, so. That scene immediately reminded me of the world that we live in today, because now you can say, hey, Siri, so all your devices are always listening to you at all time. Always off. I have no, I have no. You turn it off. Very good. Good for you. You should probably do that.

I got the phone. You should do that. My sister was talking about that because they were talking about shoes. I was with my sisters and the next day they had all these ads that came up on their feed for shoes. Yeah. Yeah. And they figured out that was Siri. Listen. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. I love the doctors. It is messed up. I love the doctor's line. I'm a doctor not a voyeur. You hear you for the first time. That was great. Because you also notice that when he's talking. with Janeway on that little portable view screen that pops up. He actually looks left and right. He looks at Chocote and back at Janeway. If there's a wide angle lens or something that he's able to see that far over. I saw that. Yeah. So I thought that was really kind of interesting.

After that is the scene of Paris and Kim coming in to Neelix's mess hall and getting some of the Alpharian hair pasta. I was mugging up a storm in that. Oh, no, you was that. I was like, up. Hey. Oh, we both were kind of overboard. Yeah, it was very funny. Because it was, you know, we're... Pretending to be nice.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that scene when we walk up to Neelix and he's handing us the pasta, right? And then just, Robbie, I love when Robbie goes, like, whatever. We just have a lot of bridge operations to discuss. And that's it. He's just sort of, whatever.

You're really dismissive and just so curt. and it was just hilarious. But then you subclass genus was brilliant. You know, you two, Ensign Kim and Tom Parris are the only two people in seven years who complimented me in my food. Oh, really? Yeah, you did it once.

You wanted a second helping of some stew I had made. I think Janeway turned and said, basically, are you kidding? And you said, no, I like it. And Robbie, and I remember this because I went, it was in fair train. And I went to see you because I was about to go down and meet an intergalactic drug dealer and I needed to know. Am I doing the right thing?

Right. And I go to Robbie and I said, you've been in trouble in your life. Am I doing it? He says, just do the right thing. And I leave. And as I get to the door, it was in the science lab. Remember that room? Oh, yeah.

And as I get to Robbie, Robbie says, by the way, Neelix, I really like those Endorian sweet roots. Even though I'm about to face my death, the character, like, really? Really? So you two are the only guys That's funny. I just always remember your line, Johnny. My Faragoid goulash is infamous.

And maybe I needed second helpings of Faragoid goulash. That might have been it. When you guys fought, you have that great line. Oh, kill you. It's too late. I'm bending your hair pasta already did the trick. These food insults are going on while you're battling.

I know who my stunt double was. His name is Merritt Yonka. Merritt Yonka. Merit Yonka became. my, when I was producing Chuck, Merritt became my stunt coordinator. Oh, that Merritt. Yeah, Merritt Yonka. Oh, my gosh.

And I didn't put it together when he got hired onto Chuck as the stunt coordinator. And he came in one day, not long after we started with a photo of he and I and the spaghetti on both of us, identical, you know, side by side. I was like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe. Wow, wow. I don't remember his name, but he was, he was there for the whole time. was a really good guy. He was very good. He did a fan who you sent that wonderful video that you showed me, Robert. Yeah. There was a, it was one of those ratchet gags where you're

getting pulled way back and he did that. He was really cool. I hope, Johnny, I hope your, your stunt double got double pay on that time and a half because he had to do everything, he had to get everything put on just like you. Am I right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, well, three hour or two and a half hour? It started at three and a half And Scott got it down to about under three. Yeah, well, Scott can do that. You know, he's so good at that. It was always another hour during the day

where it was falling apart. And then an hour and a half to take it off. So it was a lot of time in the chair. Did your stunt double come up and commiserate with you and say, man, I don't know how you do it. You know, I mean, no recollection. They probably removed his makeup of alcohol, which they did with all the guest start.

And that's harsh on your skin. Very harsh. Yeah. And they did it out of expediency. But they would never do it with me because I would have been in a month. I would have been gone. Yeah.

I remember Jamie Sloyan, who played Chitrelle after six days, having his makeup removed again with alcohol, it was all, his skin was cracking. It's just not, it's not. I know when the pandemic started and everybody was using hand sanitizer like 500 times a day that I noticed my hands, I'm not using it quite as much as I was back then. And maybe my skin's used to it, but my hands were cracking. So yeah, the alcohol on your face. I mean, it was cracking my skin on my hand.

It's terrible. Imagine on your face. But it would come off in about a half an hour. Right. A lot faster. A lot faster. That warm towel kind of helped a little bit at the end. Oh, the warm towel.

That's right. To this day, if I smell aloe vera, right back in that middle. That's funny. I forgot about the warm towel at the end of the night. I had four. Oh, yeah, you needed multiple ones. Scott always had four.

Yeah. Good old Scott. The scene in Janeway's ready room when you two are, you're reporting to Janeway. And that comment from Janeway would anyone care to explain? It's just the looks that you get from Janeway with you, was classic. Loved it. Did really well on that. Well, that was a great. The thing I remember about that scene is that I went and made a ready room for myself, which I still had to this day. So if I'm about to do something like eat dinner or go for a while, I go to my ready room first. Get ready. Yeah. Get ready. And then move on and do whatever. the errand was right that's amazing that you yeah and keep this very seriously you're committed you're committed speaking seriously i i thought it was interesting when cess goes in and to talk to the doctor and she's frustrated and he's like what's wrong cat you know something's wrong and she finally admits that you know tom and neelix have been fighting over her and the doctor says well uh you know that kind of things been going on for hundreds of years, you know. I've read about autopsies that resulted from duels over love or something. And she's like, that's not funny. And he goes, no, it's not.

And I thought in that moment, he's absolutely right. Like, that doctor's perspective of it's not funny. Like, we're kind of doing the funny version of it. But that kind of jealousy can lead to a lot of destruction and duels back in the day. Like, this is a timeless kind of experience. Definitely. Definitely. I remember, well, maybe it was in that scene, Garrett. It might have been the scene. I think it's your line where they ask how far away is the window of opportunity. And you, I say, I think so. I mean, yeah, you go about 53 minutes. What? Oh, is that what I said? Yeah, you say about 53 minutes. I think about 53 minutes. Yeah. I mean, about 50 minutes. But 53 is so specific. It's when the airlines go, we'll be landing about in seven hours and 31 minutes and 20. 12 seconds. I go, why don't you not, take out the about. Yeah. That's too specific to say about. So true. Can I go back one scene before what you just talked about, Robbie? In the briefing room scene, I need to ask Johnny, what was that look on Neelix's face? Like, right, you're sitting

right next to Paris, and you just do this. Oh, yeah. It's really weird, like, what is? I did that twice in this episode. What was that phase? It's sour. It's disgust. Yeah, pure disgust. At this arrogant bastard. Yeah, sitting next to you. Just pure disgust. Oh, you could, it's pretty arrogant. Yeah, he was pretty arrogant. I loved it though. Yeah, I loved it. But let's just talk about Jennifer lean. I mean, the energy she brought into that scene with the doctor is amazing. She took it from the hallway, trying to get information from Nelix. Neelix dismisses her and she takes that frustration right into the doctor and the doctor has to pay for it and for her age how young she was when she was such a good actress she's like a baby but she was so talented she was so unedited she you know she was

always right there oh so present so present so present just and and i had forgotten how many characters were infatuated because clearly the doctor says in the scene with cast he goes oh he's clearly his affection for you is obvious or something like yeah the doctor says And she's like, really? And he goes, oh, yes. Well, every time you walk in the room, his blood pressure. So it's literally a scientific diagnosis that Tom, there's no question. He had some affection for her.

Sure, sure. And obviously, Neelix did. And then the doctor in the same scene sort of says, you're only two years old. There's some things that you just don't understand, Cass. And for me, the subtext was the doctor, because in previous episodes, they had gotten very close. the doctor was in love with her too he even sort of admits it in that moment of you know there's some things I can't even explain to you right now

Cass because you're so young and in that subtext I felt like the doctor going I love you too I have everybody love Cass I had sort of forgotten that she was she brought out the heart and so many people she was easy to look that scene where where Harry goes to kind of console Cass I thought boy that would be really interesting

if like Harry started making out with Cass and it was this bizarre love triangle and that's in reference to the New Order song from 1986 by the British band New Order. That would have been insane. I have a new order t-shirt. Oh, there you go. Yes. I used to love dancing to that in college. That was my jam. Yeah. I love the line that the doctor says, going back to what you were just talking about, Robbie. The colorization of his ears turns decidedly orange that line. And then when he said the you're only two years old. That to me was like the doctor's ASMR line. You're only two years old.

There may be a few things. You don't know how to look for in a man. In time, you'll understand. That was his very... ASMR sort of. Yeah, it was very soft and very delicate. Only two years old. And that's why I took that line as the doctor kind of implying.

That he is in love with her. I have feeling of you too, of course. Yeah. Was there. He's never that soft with anybody else. He's very short. He's very curt and almost to the point of being an asshole to everybody, right? A jerk to everybody.

But to her, he's so gentle and he's so understanding of everything that she's going through, right? So he is in love with her. Great. I mean, so far this episode for everybody was a great episode. For Kess was great for the doctor had moments. Janeway had her new hairdo and she was funny. So we take the shuttle down So Neelix and Paris have to fly down to this planet

Yeah I remember Maybe because I was shadowing to direct I have this memory that Freaks and Marvin Rush Our director of photography had created this bungee cam camera For these really big shakes that they wanted Because eventually as we're going through the atmosphere And about to crash that camera is going crazy and Frakes wanted this crazy shot

so Marvin came up with bungee's to hold it so it would bounce and the camera would go that's my memory of that shuttle scene I remember bouncing around like crazy we'd never done it that big before and Freaks wanted to do that and then we crash and we start to wake up and I have to say

I think first I said the words atmospheric leakage and then you said it and we said atmospheric leakage way too many times is my point it was like okay all right enough with your atmospheric leakage something about that made it made me uncomfortable i like i like finding the garnisite yes the garden site who came up with that much i can just imagine the writer's room what do you want to call it uh barn garden garden barn barn yeah can i go back to the scene speaking around

before you crash you guys you know there's a lot of noise in the background you hear the noise the craziness and then I think anytime this happens

whether it's on a shuttle or on a ship we always do that thing where we raise our volume of our voice right everybody starts getting really loud and I always

I always had an issue with like how loud am I should I be like should I be really like screaming at the top of my lungs because I don't know what because the director

never tells you well it's going to be at this many decibels so you should be here you kind of make that own decision for yourself did either of you have any issues with that as well when you were filmed remember okay because that's something i remember specifically it's a weird memory but i do remember it um the angle of the crash shuttle you can see the camera is tilted up towards you johnny you're kind of like you know and so you really see a good take of your upper teeth and those were the fake prosthetic teeth correct okay the bottoms were always yours and the top was the fake

Yeah. Okay. In fact, I remember whenever he had to, whenever the character had to yell or, you know, get emotional. Yeah. Often they would pop out. They would fall back. That happened quite often.

Yeah. We had to go back and put him in again and for years after that, after Voyager ended. Yeah. And it still happens occasionally, but every show I did, whether it was theater, film, before they'd say action, I'd go, Do I have my teeth? You reach for your teeth. I think, do I have my teeth?

Well, it's seven years of that, yeah. Yeah, and it became so habitual. You were conditioned, yeah. You were conditioned. That's amazing that that happened. I always tell my favorite story of Johnny is when that happened was when we were filming in Bronson, and it was so hot, and all of us were complaining. And I've told this story at conventions before,

but I think it's good to just tell it here one more time. And everyone was complaining how hot it was. And we were like, kids, give us more water. We need a fan and somebody needs to get an umbrella for us. And we were complaining for almost an hour. And then all of a sudden, Johnny just loses it. And he's like, shut up. Shut up.

All of you, shut up. None of you is wearing a mattress on top of your head. Like that big point shows us. He's got five inches of foam that he's as hot as we are. He's 15 times or 100 times hotter than we are. Right. And when he said that, his teeth flew out. He just flew out and landed on the ground.

And we all looked at him and went, you're right and we all shut up because it was a lesson in perspective because as bad as you think you might have it there's someone next to you who's 10 times worse off than you are right so it truly was you know one of my favorite stories of you and your teeth where are you in l.A. right now or Vegas? I'm in calgary I'm in calgary I'm in calgary that's right um it was 121 in woodland hills yesterday are you kidding one to one when's this heat wave going to end That's insane. That's like Las Vegas temperature. You know, I mean, wow.

It's really intense. That's not good. I can't imagine filming outside in this kind of weather. Well, we're all lucky to not be there then, right? We're in Vancouver. Are you in Vermont right now? Are you in Connecticut? Where are you?

I'm in Manhattan. Oh, you're in the city right now. Okay. All right. Get your pad. You've been here, Gary. I have. I have.

The only one who has ever been there. He's ever been here. No, I've been there. Yeah, Rebecca and I came up one time. We have breakfast with you. Oh, now I don't feel as special. I thought that I was the only. I know, sorry.

For a while you were. But I was there before Robbie was, right, Johnny? That's correct. Yes, I'm still in the first place. Thank you. I could talk about this episode for hours, but I don't want to extend our welcome. Ethan has joined us today.

So I loved when we sort of going through the caves, I thought Frank shot that so well. Sometimes the caves look really fake and they don't... They look, yeah, this looked real. This looked very real and it felt like we were really journeying on a long kind of exploration. He had us coming up angles and, you know, we didn't have a giant cave set. It was, it had one opening with kind of an upper ledge

and then it had a couple of tunnels and that was about it. And he made it seem much, much bigger than it was than it really was. So I thought that was done great. And also, I always love shooting at the caves because it felt like we were, it was our version of location. We didn't go on location very often. It was like, oh, we're in the caves where it just felt different than we're not in our quarters or in a hallway or, you were the Jeffries too. Did you guys notice the background noise when you were on the planet? Every time you were walking around the planet, you hear that eerie sort of background noise that they put in in post.

I didn't notice that, no. It had this crazy, like, yeah. Oh, wow. Weird details I'm picking up when I'm. I'm doing this rewatch. I just love the banter between Neelix and Paris when you're talking about, of course, it might not meet your personal culinary standards.

I pronounced that wrong, it's culinary. Oh, is it? My goodness. I can't believe I wasn't corrected on that. I didn't know that. I thought it was culinary. I thought it was culinary too. Culinary.

Did Jerry Ryan correct you on that? How did you know? No, I just noticed it watching it this afternoon. I said, oh, I said, okay. Yeah, and Robbie's snappy response, oh, don't worry. I've learned to lower my standards since you became cook. And then right after he says that, Johnny,

you make this weird sound, you went, eh, like that. Do you remember? That you're so, like, just, I love how just present and just, you don't know what's gonna come out of, Neelyson. Yeah, no good. That little, yeah, was just so classic. And then Robby goes, I'm picking up some caves

about a kilometer west of here. And then Nealus goes, what good fortune. I mean, this, this sort of dead pan, like, I want to. It was like a sitcom. Hell yeah. It was hilarious. You guys were in a humor. Odd couple.

Yeah, we were like the odd couple. We were like the odd couple. It's very good show. I love when he accused me of wearing faux lime aftershave. Yes. Remember that? I was like, I never knew Paris. Because he must wear something that Neelich is commenting on.

So I was like, oh, wow, I never thought about Paris wearing. Foe lime. Foe lime after shave. I do have an important note that Paris does science in this episode because you actually have an explanation about the vapors having the proteins. Oh, that's right. And typically, you've commented that Paris, you know, isn't necessarily a science guy. Science guy. No, he's the guy to go, hey, so what are we saying here? Is this food or not food? Oh, yeah. He's that guy. You're right, right. Neelix is the better man and apologizes to Tom, which is wonderful. Tom comes clean. Yeah. One thought about that was,

that was a great moment, but I think it could have, it missed one beat that I wish I had noticed when we have done it, which is when Tom says, you know, I used to be that guy, but I don't intend to blow it anymore. Right. I don't comment on that. I go right back to my own problem or my own issue about policy,

whereas I should have acknowledged that in some way, and the character didn't, and I regret that. That's the one where I had. I love, that didn't occur to me. I mean, it makes sense what you're saying, but it didn't occur to me. I thought that scene was beautifully written.

It was a lovely scene. It was really, really proud. to have acted in it with you. I thought we both, I was very happy with what I did. I loved what you did. I thought the writing was good. Again, like I started off by saying,

this episode is great and memorable to me because it's got such great character work and relationship work. What does Parturition mean? I don't know what it means. I don't know. No one's looked it up. I'm going to look it up right now.

You can look it up right now. I think that when, When Tom comes clean and is honest with Neelix, this is truly the turning point of Paris from being the lecherous pig to respectability again at this moment. This is when you start getting better. Yeah. Right? Parturition is...

It's active giving birth to young people. Yes. It's birth. Oh. Parturition is a birth. Which is interesting because it is a birth of a new relationship for Neelix and Tom. It's a birth. It's a birth, just like you were saying, Garrett, before we read the definition, it was

was the beginning of a new Tom Paris, which thank God, because I was, which includes a friendship with Neelix, because that line with Neelix says, I don't pick Kess's friends for her, just my own. That's a great moment. And that line refers to the pilot episode when Harry is sitting there in the mess hall. Do you remember that? And Paris comes up. And he's like, well, I guess you don't want to hang with me. And he's like, I choose my own friends. So that was the same. Yeah, that's interesting. Similar language. Right. So it took until season two for you to share that moment with Neelix, but this is, but it's early. I mean, this is a quick friendship for you guys,

immediately. You guys must really be, I mean, really getting to know the show. Oh my God, yes. It's been fun. It's been fun because I think, well, I don't remember a lot of it. Like I, you know, that's a running joke on this podcast. I start off by trying to remember some stuff and I can't remember anything. now and then a little bit. Well, it's been over two decades, you know. Yeah, yeah. It's a long time ago.

But it's a real gift to be able to rewatch it and sort of remember some of this stuff and the times we shared and, you know, because it was a big part of our life. I've always planned to watch at some point. I said when I got older, I was going to watch the whole series because there's so many shows I didn't see.

And my wife, Patty, Patricia, she saw all of them. Right. Wow. Yeah. And I'd really like to, someday I'm going to sit down and watch it, You know. You can join us anytime you want. If you want to watch it, I'm talk about it. I'm curious.

Who does Patty like on the show? Who does, whose character does she like, you know? Patricia likes everybody, but she particularly liked Beltran, I think. I bet she did. I bet she did like Felton. Don't embarrass her. Don't embarrass Patty on this. He was a very charming man, Robert.

Yeah. Chocote as a character was very sensitive and, sensitive and new agey and strong and manly and all those things and very funny off the air yeah yeah i liked your uh johnny i liked your choice of line delivery when you're talking with janeway uh and jane way says did you hear what i said neelix and you're like yeah you do this you do a george decay yes it's really like whoa you take us on this like roller coaster ride with you yeah i wrote that line down too from janeway that that kate's line reading and i can't remember what it was now. Oh, Kate's line reading. You didn't, you didn't write anything down

about Johnny's line reading on that? His, uh, no, it was, it was, did you hear what I just said? Neelix? Yeah, what it did you hear what I just said? Her line reading was very funny and so was Johnny's. It was a great, it was a memorable exchange. I can't remember when we did stuff like that and was, was I working with Kate or was that something she did separate from? Probably separate. You guys probably did your own little spin separately. So it's Cosmo Genovese, who you were acting off. Right. We're doing. Yeah.

We're doing a Cosmo. I loved, I love Paris's lines when he says, if you hear muffled screams, consider that a request for a beam out. Look at that comedy. Very funny. And then that actor had one day, whoever played that monster. Yeah.

He was on stilts. I remember he was on stilts and Frakes hated the way that he looked walking, because he was walking kind of weird. And it was a stunt or something on make up on stilts, which I find interesting because the show that I'm doing right now, Resident Alien, we have an alien that initially they put on stilts to try to make him tall, and they've actually redone all that because they didn't like the way it looked,

which is exactly what Frank said 25 years ago. Did you guys like the look of the alien? Because I personally thought that was a good-looking alien. I liked it. I thought it was a very good makeup. Yeah, it was good. Really good makeup. Yeah. Any issues with the working with the animatronic baby alien? No, I thought given what we had at the time, I thought it was very state of the art. Okay. Yeah.

Well, for what you need, it was perfect. I want to say, well, I guess I'll just say it. I like it quite a bit. Okay, so I, and I loved this episode structurally, because that last moment with Neelix in the middle, and he's got an arm around the test and an arm around Paris, and they're walking off into the, the sunset. Yeah, you know, it's the beautiful structure of the hero's journey coming

around to a whole new place and and a happy ending. And I just laughed a lot in this episode. It's just got a kick out of watch it. I mean, it's so strange to see it. I mean, it was 2 o'clock this afternoon. I said, well, I got to watch this show. I've never seen it. And I'll see, but I was yelling at my wife. I said, this is pretty darn good. It's pretty good. Yeah, it's a good episode. I think Freaks did a great job. The writer, who I'm not familiar with, that must have been an outside writer. My final note is the cold foul in a bottle to celebrate at the end. You talk about that, right?

That he says about this cold foul. And that reminded me that when we were doing the Dragon Con virtual convention, we were joking about what our Twitter names would be as our characters. And Tuvok's Twitter name was Cold Logic was what he was. Oh, that's right. Cold Logic. Yeah, Cold Logic would be his online screen name. All right, what is your, what is your behind this, your theme of this?

My theme, my deeper meaning. What I had written down, but I'm going to adjust it a little. What I'd written down is assuming makes an ass of you and me, which is kind of that saying, you know, there was a lot of assumptions made by Nelix and by Paris and a lot of people, which led to, you know, conflict and anger and jealousy and all kinds of things. And then ultimately when they were honest and more authentic, they realized that there was no reason for all that. But I'm going to change the theme a little because I think the deeper meaning for me is authenticity, vulnerability and authenticity, taking a chance to really be honest and to open yourself up and show who you are can lead to amazing gifts. like that's the that's the the lesson to me because I think there was so much honesty from ultimately

like after we get through all of the jealousy and anger and bickering and whatever once things got authentic it led to this great gift and so I would say that's the lesson for me the deeper meaning is like you know authenticity leads to some amazing gifts and wonderful yeah yeah that is definitely the same, that is the strongest theme in this episode for sure. It is that this is like a blueprint for any couple, whether it's a business coupling or a personal couple, that honesty or transparency is the best policy. So that is definitely, I would say, the lesson that we can learn from this. That's a good lesson. Excellent. Excellent. It's a very good lesson. All right. All right. Well, that's a recap. That's a good recap. That's a pretty, I'm pretty excited that we did

that. Thank you guys for listening and tuning in of our review of Parturition with our special guests, Ethan Phillips, our good friend, Johnny. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you for being here. And then stay tuned next week when we review persistence of vision. Thanks, Robbins. Thanks, guys. See you next later. Bye-bye.