The Delta Flyers - Past Tense Part 2

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Past Tense Part 2, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell, and guest host Robert Hewitt Wolfe.Past Tense Part 2: Sisko, posing as Gabriel Bell in the 21st century, takes charge of the hostage situation in the Processing Center.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Carl Murphy, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Danie Crofoot, Steve Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Hailey L., & Mariette KarrAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Carmen Puente-Garza, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Karen Galleski, Jeremy Conoley-Mayes, Jan Hanford, Loretta Reyes, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Helen Brownrigg, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Bethany Grace Howe, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, & Oscar FernandezThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers' Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek, Deep Space Nine. Yes, indeed. And for the complete and exciting version of this podcast, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Your host for today are my fellow trick actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, myself Garrett Wong, and our special guest and now my favorite D-Space-9 writer, Robert Hewitt

Wolf. Robert, welcome back. Thanks, thanks. You're a gem to do this, and your memories and your thoughts on all of it are amazing. Honestly, you're a really fine guest. Yes. It's just fun to hang out with you. I've never spent this much time with you.

I know. It's really nice. And to further your point, Terry, I think Robert flowed so well with the three of us, you know, the last time we recorded with him. It was effortless. So that's something that we love to have happen. And my first question for Robert is, please tell us what is behind you on your wall. It looks like a mobile of some type of something's going on.

Sorry. Yeah. So that's, yeah, that's a fish mobile. So they're like little painted tropical fish. Behind that is every year the construction department at Viewspace 9 used to give these little plaques that had set designs on them. So that's ops. And then that's the defiant. You can't always see that.

Yeah. That is my Leo Award for Best Series for Andromeda. Oh, wow. That's amazing. Nomination, that's all right. Golf clap. I don't have any awards. Yeah.

I'm impressed. that well it's only a nomination yeah and then that is a crossbow that the rade tribe of central vietnam gave to my father when he was a green beret and he was their military advisor he was the leader of an a team and he deployed in i think 1965 to the highlands of vietnam where he was the lead military advisor to a to a tribe of people indigenous people from central vietnam called the rade and so yeah so he was he's had a thousand radee riflemen that were under his command. Okay, good, good. So the Rade had rifles,

not the bows. Okay, because I... So the crossbows, you know, were certainly something that they made, but we gave them rifles. Right, yeah. Because I, okay, because when you show me the bow, my first thought was I was thinking about going to the Star Wars universe, EWox. You know how

Ewks? They seem pretty not really lethal. When you see them, they've got bows and arrows. Yeah, they're cute. Yeah, they're teddy bears. So I was wondering if the Rade were also Ewok-like, but no, they got rifles, so that's good. They had rifles, and don't forget that the Ewarks ate Stormtroopers by the end of the movie. That's true. They had the helmets there. I forgot about that. Okay. How many of you listeners and viewers would have thought that we would be

talking about Star Wars on the Star Trek podcast? Oh, don't get us started or we will talk about Star Wars the whole time. Oh, boy. Robert, I have a question for you. It sounds very dramatic what you're, your father did for a living, you know, his job. Do you ever use any of the stories or the experiences of that in your writing? Have you ever kind of... Oh, yeah. All the time. Oh, wow.

You guys have already done the wire, so... Oh, that was about your father, then. Yeah, I mean, they, my father liked to tell stories. Many of them weren't true. He was a closet of... Me too. I do the same thing. And so, yeah, there's a lot of Garrick.

my dad there's a lot of garrick uh my dad in garrick one of my dad in cisco wow the sort of like different aspects obviously yeah but the sort of like my dad was a base commander my dad was a professional military man yeah he was decorated you know like real deal he had multiple bronze stars and air metal yeah exactly that would be a really rich well to draw and especially in the star trek world you know star fleet in the military and those stories. So that's very cool. Very cool. Well, I have a follow-up question.

What about your mother? Do you draw upon experiences of your mother for your writing? My mother was an RN and ER nurse. It was very, very dedicated to her job. She died very young, unfortunately. Oh, I'm sorry. That's too bad. But so a lot of the, like, you know, a little bit to Kira, a little bit to Dax,

a little bit of Bashir, you know, are also drawn for my mother. Wow, very cool. It's just, you know, I think that that's the easiest thing for most writers is to pull a little bits of their family. Mm-hmm. All that stuff. That's very cool. Very cool to hear that.

My mom was very, was a little bit of a trickster, roguish type person. You told stories about when she was a terror in nursing school. Oh, yeah. So some of that got into Dax for sure. Oh, my mother once, there was a bat that flew into their nursing school. she went to this Catholic nursing school. This bat came in and somehow it was like it hit something or was stunned or it was like, so she caught the bat.

Wow. And then she put it in the head nurse instructor nun's desk drawer. Oh, God. Mom. Wow. Very clever. Love your mom. Yeah.

What a trickster. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Very cool. She caught the bat. with like a garbage can, right? Not her bare hands. I'm very unclear on how she caught the bat.

And P.S. don't try this at home. Please don't try catching that. No. But somehow she managed to capture the bat and then put the bat into the drawer of the head of the school. Wow. I have the first birthday. Sean T. February 2nd. Happy birthday, Sean.

Happy birthday, Sean. Happy birthday, Sean. Happy birthday, Sean. Next up we have Karen Gilleski. Happy birthday to Karen on February 5th. Happy birthday, Karen. Happy birthday, Karen. Happy birthday, Karen.

And our last birthday, this time, is for E. Laroque on February 7th. Happy birthday E. Happy birthday E. Happy birthday, E. Happy birthday, E. Dear Yee, happy birthday to you. And many more.

For past tense, part two, your Limerick. In the sanctuary, the homeless are starting a coup. How they get out of this pickle, I haven't a clue. Sanctuary problems are revealed, and the timeline is healed, but for us, there's still work. to do. I think that's great. I do like this whole, uh, this issue of homelessness. And I wanted to make sure I got that in there, you know, that agrees. This is still something we got to work on. Agreed. Terry, what do you have for us? What do you got? Oh my gosh. Now I'm, I'm super nervous.

The ticking time bomb to lose our freedom is real. That doesn't diminish our focus on our deal. to keep the timeline in our sight we fight with all our might justice and freedom is our prize the future of the federation is no small guys oh there you go very nice well guys is the only thing I could think of to that rhyme guys that worked as G-U-I-S-E like that guys yes and believe me at five o'clock this morning I was like how do you spell that I can't believe I can't I think of how to spell it. And I spelled it right and I was thinking, the heck can't be right.

I don't know what the heck. Sometimes you look at a word, you're like, that's no, there's no way. That's not right. No. Yeah.

I hear you. I have a song. You have a song? What? I love how creative this is. It's awesome. Robert, amazing.

Under pressure, song by David Bowie and Queen, pressure pushing down on me, pressing down on you. No man asked for under pressure that brings a building down, splits a family. family in two puts people on streets.

That's the terror of knowing what this world is about, watching some good friends scream, let me out. Pray tomorrow gets me higher, pressure on people, people on streets. Wow. I was kind of expecting you to sing it. No. No, no one wants that. That was so perfect.

Now, did you have that in your head when you were writing it? I mean, is that something that came back to you? I feel like it's certainly, you know, just like the, you know, it just shows that it's a problem that that's the song from 1981 it's a problem that's been around for a long long time and you know it's just uh yeah it was probably partially in my head when i was writing it i tend to write with music it's a lot easier now because of streaming you know yeah but i you know i i tend to think about music a lot when i'm writing for rhythm and just like feelings yeah that's so cool and sadly it's a timeless song

yeah yeah yeah and what and what are musical lyrics other than poetry pretty much in the way right so right yeah i love good ones use it anyway yeah i like it when they used to have every all the lyrics on the back of the album or in the inside we're all showing our age i so great when they're on the sleeve when you pull it out yes wasn't it great or if it came in a booklet yeah yeah oh my goodness All right, here's my haiku for past tense, part two. Cisco runs the show. Sanctuary in chaos. A timeline restored.

That's it. Nice. Very good. Very nice. The haiku always seems to just wrap it up so succinctly. I like it. It does. It really does.

Okay. Teleplay by Iris Stephen Bear and Renee Escheria. Story by Iris Stephen Bear and Robert Hewitt Wolfe. So this time you contributed to the story, but there's no teleplay writing. We just divvied it up. I mean, all three of us kind of helped each other on both parts. Yeah. But I think I got soul writing soul teleplay credit on the first part.

Right. And Ira and Renee split up the teleplay credit of the for part two. Okay. Can I ask you something? You get a contract to work a certain amount of time with a show? Yes. yeah and then do you get bumps for story bumps for writing yes like kind of like football player making a touchdown they get a bump basically like I thought that was a nice we get a weekly pay

or an episodic pay it depends on this season I was an executive story editor so I wasn't a producer so everybody up until executive story gets paid that weekly contract but it's guaranteed for a certain number of weeks and then every time you write a teleplay or story or anything like that there's a guild mandated payment on that and our residuals are based on the stories and and teleplays that we write not on so actors get paid every episode essentially that they appear in we only get paid residuals residuals actors get paid for every episode they appear in writers get paid and directors get paid only for the episodes where they are either writer's right yeah And so you know about actors, Deep Space Nine was great about making sure that we got in every episode.

And sometimes it was just voiceover, but we still got residuals for those. And that was a really amazing thing that the production did for us. Yeah. We tried really hard. And this one, Cork is not in the episode at all. And that's rare, but there was just no way to get him in as much. Yeah, you got him in that phone call, the video call. We got him in the first one.

Yeah. When we wrote that scene specifically so that. Or his residuals. Yeah. Residules. So we often would have, you'd see that there's a bunch of episodes sometimes are like, oh, there's, there's, you know, Terry to come in for her one line for this episode. Yeah.

Sometimes when I'm not even there, but then you have ADR. And I'm like, why do I have ADR? I was never even in the episode. It's like for a calm thing. Yeah. If you want the residual, go to the ADR. Yeah. Like every production, there's, there's ups and downs and good and bad people.

But we did a lot, we did a lot right on Deep Space Line. Yeah. Not everything, but we tried. Yeah, I think you did a good job. Well, this episode is directed by Jonathan Frakes. This is his third and final directing gig with Deep Space Nine, but it was his direction of this episode, which secured him the gig to direct Star Trek First Contact the feature.

So that helped him a lot, for sure. Guest stars, Jim Metzler, is Chris Brenner, Frank Military as BC, Dick Miller as Vin, Deborah Van Valkenberg as Preston, Al-Rodrigo as Bernardo Calvera. Clint Howard as Grady. Richard Lee Jackson as Danny Webb. Tina Lifford is Lee and Bill Smitrovich as Webb.

My goodness. Clint Howard. Who got Clint to come in on this? Was that? Whose job was that? He auditioned. Did he really? I swear to God, he auditioned.

Wow. Okay. And I was in the auditions, even though I didn't do the teleplay. For some reason, I was in the auditions. Yeah. Clint Howard's audition. of course we're going to give him the job of course i mean he was in the original series right so exactly yes so yeah but i did read in on memory alpha that it was initially iggy pop's job but iggy pop was

not available to that sounds right yes well we got him eventually you got him eventually in season six is what it says yes i was trying to get iggy pop on the show forever and it was just a scheduling issue because like it was something that iggy pop wanted to do apparently but it was a scheduling problem I mean we had that there were a few people we chased for years and either got or never got and I think you probably

definitely want to. Can you name the other two? We really wanted to get Sid's uncle on at Malcolm McDowell and we couldn't so we tried and it was just you know we can never quite make it work anyone else besides Malcolm

that was the big one that we chased forever yeah But there was at least one or two others that we we look forever to try to get. I mean, obviously, like, originally wanted Franks and Oster Jr. to play. Vic. Vic, yeah. And we, there was some engagement and we chased after that for a little bit.

And then we could never make it work. Doing that scene with Clint Howard, I was so excited because it was such a big fan. And it was so much fun to watch back again. It was just tickled. was so sweet he was so sweet he was so sweet super nice guy huh did his brother come visit on the set that day did ron howard show up no that would have been so cool but when i turned 21 my birthday was at the china club yes i was dating mickey o'ork yeah david bowie was one of the guests at my birthday party, and he made sure that it was Ron Wood, Stephen Woodwood, Iggy Pop,

and David Bowie sang me happy birthday. Oh, my God. Look at you. And I remained friends with David Bowie for a long, long time. Oh, it's all such a huge David Bowie. So crazy. I love David Bowie. This business, right?

That would have been amazing to get David Bowie on DS9. I think we actually did chase David Bowie for something, too, for a little while. Did you? You should have called Terry. I wish I would have gotten him in. Yeah. I would have begged him. A lot of people like that are scheduling.

It's impossible. It's just impossible. They're way, way too busy. They're on tour. But like we also. Or they're in Europe. Yeah. When Bashir and O'Brien seen Jerusalem in whatever episode that is, I can't remember

now. Oh, when O'Brien gets really sick? Yeah. Was it, is it, is it, is it, It looks like he's in Jerusalem. No, no. The one where he goes through the aging thing, is that the one? I can't remember if it's a prison or hard time.

Anyway, I don't remember if it's hard time or not. But when they sing Jerusalem, we originally were going to have them sing Space Oddity. Oh, gosh. It was too expensive. And then we went after Rocket Man, also too expensive. We went after life on Mars, also too expensive. We're finally just like, all right, what's common, what's public domain that you guys can sing?

And I think Jerusalem was calm's idea. Anyway. Wow. Super cool. Let's jump into it. Yeah, part two starts out in the processing center. We are inside with the hostages. We hear sirens.

We hear helicopters. And BC gets a little rough in this opening scene. He's getting rough with the hostages. Vin comes in and Cisco disarms him immediately. And basically, Cisco, and Bashir trying to keep everything calm and safe in the scene. BC wants to see the news, the news feed. And Bernardo gives him access, his access card in the scene.

But that was like a scary moment there. Yeah. Yeah. Because Vin didn't want to give it. And it was like, oh, if he shoots Vin, this whole thing's going to blow up. I mean, the tension for me is writing, is it Vin's character? Yeah, writing Vin's character to be the one that's just. so cavalier about saying whatever he wants to BC who's got the shotgun and it just the whole time

I'm like don't stop talking please you're going to get shot but stop being dick miller yes stop being dick we know you do it well effortlessly exactly Bashir and Cisco do have a conversation in the scene where Bashir's kind of worried that if Gabriel Bell dies it's going to change history and they're the only ones that know Cisco is not Gabriel Bell. So they kind of reset a little bit, you know, the stakes in this. Yeah, I was so happy for that little moment between the two of them to take us back to our perspective of what's happening.

Yeah. And what our goal is. Yeah. But they don't talk about Bill being shot by BC at all in this second parter. And it was on purpose, according to the, you know, what the writers are saying. They wanted, they didn't want everyone thinking about, oh, Bashir and Cisco are trapped in a room with a killer, with a murderer, a cold-blooded murderer. So it was all about, we want to not have that in there.

We want to basically, you know, not focus on that theme. So there was definitely some pre-designed manipulations of that script to make sure you didn't hear that. Yeah, I don't remember that specifically, but I do know that we wanted to sort of like mess with people's sympathies for BC. Yeah. And sort of take them out a little bit of a journey with the guy. So that's probably why are we avoided reminding people that he's down to get out. Yeah, it said, fatally in the stomach, by the way, where I know. I don't know how that happened, but okay.

Here's a quote from Ira. Bear wanted to use the character of BC to illustrate the notion that if you treat people like animals, they become animals. If BC had not been homeless, what would he have been? We created his backstory stuff that would never appear on the screen and decided he probably would have been a garage mechanic or something, even though he's obviously a threatening, scary character and he's on the edge crazy

all through both shows. We didn't define him as a murderer. That's the quote from my right. Yeah, that's exactly right. Great. Well, we come back from the opening credits. They're watching the news report. You see riots.

You see fires. Things are really blowing up. And then Webb shows up. and Cisco says to let Webb in, that he's a friend. And Cisco has a little aside where with Webb where he says he needs to get, he needs him to gather more gimmies, bring more gimmies over here to help guard the hostages because the ghosts are trouble. Ghosts will make a mess of everything.

So Webb goes to find some of his buddies, some of the guys next door, how he describes himself later on. And he looked like that. It was perfect casting. Perfect. Yeah, it was nice. So things are starting to develop. Cisco's trying to figure out a plan here.

We go to Chris's office where Dax and Chris are also watching the news. And Dax really wants to go find her friends. And Chris is like, no, it's too dangerous. You know, you can see these riots on the TV and the news feed. But Dax insists. She's like, none of these people, my friends don't belong there. And none of these people. people belong there. We start to learn her perspective as well, like where her heads at. She gets

that this is not fair. And I can't explain to him what a badass I am. And how capable I am. I could probably take him out. Exactly. What a bad assing hero. I'll be fine. Do you know who you're talking to? He has no idea. No, no idea. That's funny. You know what's also interesting. that prior scene, when they're trying to get that authorization card to get on the net. This is the, this year, this is sort of the beginning of the internet at this time, isn't it? It's barely. Yeah. It was in its early days for sure.

I mean, there was, there were bulletin boards and people had email. I had the dial up. It was maybe AOL. Yeah. But like there weren't a lot of web. Yeah. Yeah. Please.

Yeah. There wasn't a lot of web presence. but it was like, give me your email. I want to use my computer, right? It wasn't so much shopping. There wasn't real shopping on it, wasn't? And there definitely was no streaming video. There was no, like, none of that, right?

So it was very early days. Yes, but the concept that the sanctuary has no access to the internet whatsoever is just so foreign to us now. We're also used to getting on to the internet. Yeah. Well, there was no Wi-Fi back. Right. It was all wired. You had to get on the internet.

You had to plug a phone line into your computer. Yes, right. And, like, dial it up. And it would, like, make those noises that people sometimes hear still and, like, could still hear it in your head, can you? So we didn't understand, like, we did, what we didn't anticipate, obviously, was the ubiquity of cell phones. Right.

Right. and their and their ability to just be like a giant like what back their way any cell phone now is a thousand times more powerful and versatile than any computer was back back when we were writing this yeah yeah any computer not any phone you're talking about computer exactly yeah exactly like an actual desktop there were no laptops that was desktop desktops yeah you know and they were giant and bulky and they had like TV size old-fashioned TV screens. Yeah, CRT.

Really expensive. They were very expensive. It was a whole thing, you know. Yeah. And so we just, we obviously had no idea how that was all going to evolve. Yeah. And cell phones were super expensive.

I mean, just to use them were expensive. They existed, but like I didn't know anyone that had them. As writers, IRA had to carry a pager. They would pay. Ira if they wanted to change a line at like one o'clock in the morning. Oh, God. And then he would call in. Yeah. Wow. To a landline. Right. Yeah. To talk to the script supervisor to approve that the line change. Oh, God. The next scene is a space shot. We've got a first officer's log supplemental. Kira says somehow Cisco Dax and Bashir have altered Earth's history. We have no choice but to send an away team

into the past to try to find them and to correct the changes to the timeline. The only problem is we're not exactly sure where to look or when. So they sort of reset the stakes on the defiant of what's going on there that, you know, the timeline has been changed, that Starfleet never existed. And then we go inside the transporter room and O'Brien's kind of telling Odo about this tech solution, you know, basically recapping for us as well. O'Brien is telling Odo that he thinks he knows how to do this, that he's narrowed it down to 10 possible timelines.

So now from all the time that's ever existed, we think it's only 10 possibilities. And then Kira enters the scene with her nose bandage, which I loved. That was so cute. She does not like it at all. But my first thought was, oh, they just put the nose bandage on, so she probably didn't have to sit in the chair and get the, the prosthetic on yeah yeah she was wearing the bandit so yeah I understand hiding vulcan ears but

you don't need it I don't think anybody really would have said anything about that to her I'm sorry how do you no that would have looked so weird in any time it would have been startling I think people would have noticed right away I also just liked her attitude it was funny the comic relief of her like yeah but if they didn't do it gawa if they didn't do it, it would be like, oh my God, why didn't they cover her now? Yeah, you're right. You're right. We'll be jumping on it. You're right.

Yeah, 100%. They covered it. They covered it. It was a little bit of an homage to city at the edge of Forever, too, or smock wears the, where's the watchtap and pulls it down over it. Yes. Exactly. We love that stuff.

They energize. I thought Renee did a very nice job with one finger of sliding up. A single finger energized? It was kind of funny. They beam out, though, and we see. like the shot is over you can tell it's a period car yeah you can immediately you know they're like the 20s yeah right yeah they're back in the uh the 20s or 30s 30s yeah oh wait isn't it cute well okay that when they say I don't know what happened with the couple and she just said

I broke my nose and she turned and it was so yeah cute she was embarrassed it was a little girl it was so sweet we never see car like that yeah you don't you don't you don't There's a little innocence there. It was kind of like a little shy or something. Yeah. Yeah. Did you notice the boxing advertisement? Did you guys notice that?

No. It says Bayland Garden, right, boxing. So there's an advertisement on the wall there when they're in the 1930 scene. And it is to mirror the city on the edge of Forever, the original series episode where they go back to the 1930s. And there is a poster that says about at the Madison Square Garden, clearly, because it's, you know, And they made it Bayland Garden. So they were trying to do this parallel. The little Easter egg or something.

Oh, that's awesome. One of the things we were trying to do also, we were trying to make sure that the times that they transported back to were all kind of weirdly crisis times. So it was like the Great Depression, the 60s in San Francisco. So we were trying to sort of, like say that like the places and then they go back to a time when when things are really horrible yeah so the idea being that like for whatever reason you know these are all sort of

crisis points these are all times when people were unemployed where people were struggling when people were rebelling yeah i like that yeah cool yeah i also like that they kept beaming back to the same spot so you kept seeing the same kind of spot yeah we knew where they landed yeah well we go back to the processing center. We're in Lee's cubicle area. BC is not happy about all these gimmies that are here. But they talk about how they can help and they can be trusted. And BC admits that he can't trust any of the other ghosts either. He can't trust the people like him. He's going to go make his demands, though. His demands are going to be, we'll give you the hostages for freedom. I love this detail that he wants to go to Tasmania.

Mania because Earl Flynn was born in Tasmania. Did you come up with that, Robert Hewitt Wolfe? No, I think that was an Ira one. Oh. Ira was the one that was, you know, mildly obsessed with Errol Flynn. Yeah, it was very specific. I didn't know that Errol Flynn was from Tasmania. Which would mean he's Australian.

So I had no clue. He was an Aussie. So, all right. Very cool. Well, Cisco says, no, that's not going to be our demand. We're not going to Tasmania. we're going to demand that they shut down these sanctuaries and reinstate the Federal Jobs Act. So he really wants to try to do what the history, what he knows, happened.

He wants to make sure that that continues to happen in this timeline. And Cisco says he wants to send Webb because they won't dismiss him as easily as us. Right. Which I thought was interesting. It was a great point. Put that find of a point on it. It was super clear. It's like, yeah, they won't.

We wouldn't. Webb is an acceptable face. He's the every man. He's the guy. He's a family man. It's just very clear that if Webb is in trouble, then it's not. You can't just make an excuse. I mean, I had mixed feelings about that commentary because especially Cisco delivering

that line because here's a black man saying, I get they're not going to listen to me. we got to send the white guy in there and that to me was a sad commentary on some of those react yes yeah yeah yeah and honestly that he's i don't think he's comfortable with it but he knows the truth he's speaking what's true yeah that he doesn't let his opinion or his feelings about it get in the way he doesn't get angry about it he's just stating facts yeah yeah and obviously bcc he's so unstable there's no way anybody would listen to him on top of the fact that he was really young so there's this young unstable man and yeah sad commentary but he speaks the truth yeah well we go over

to the terminal in the processing center webb tries to make a call he starts talking but he gets cut off right away bc is mad that actor that played bc he he exploded in this moment. Yeah. And then VIN calls BC a loser and says the National Guard is going to roll right over him like they aren't even here. When suddenly Preston, who is a negotiator, I guess, the hostage negotiator, Preston appears on the monitor.

And she wants to see the hostages, make sure they're safe. So BC drags Lee over there. I thought it was interesting, though, because, you know, we all have laptops or phones that we can turn around like the fact they had to bring him over to this giant monitor table you know nowadays if I want to FaceTime or something I just turn the camera and oh see this see this yeah anyway they got to bring all the hostages over one by one I like that actress too we really scored with our guest cast in these episodes I mean she was a regular on a sitcom for five years she has what yeah she looked super familiar

What is she? What's the comments did she do? For comfort. She was the oldest. Oh, get it out. I don't know if she's still working, but she, you know, she's had a great career. But after that did a lot of these kind of like one, two episode guest arcs. And in a part that honestly is like not the most pivotal part in the entire thing, but still, like, she has empathy. You can see that she, she cares, you know, and it's she, but she's in a difficult position. She's just yet another middle manager and I just thought her performance was really good.

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unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. And we come back from our commercial break. Preston wants to talk to Web now. BC's got a really bad temper in this. seen cisco walks him away from everybody and he says it looks like you really just want to hurt someone and bc agrees he's like yeah it might feel might feel better if if i could and um cisco gives him some advice as you know you're going to have to find a better way to deal with those feelings which i love that moment too yeah like cisco was he wasn't judging him or criticizing him it was just again it was just fact like you need to you need to you need to to deal with these feelings. I get why you're angry. I get why you're frustrated, but

you know, hurting people is not the answer, which I thought was great. And he maintains his dignity, Cisco. It's like, you know, I am not going to veer from the path of not destroying any more of the timeline than we already have. So he's not going to buy into anybody's poking at him. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think he carries himself. I mean, obviously, Avery always did, but he cures himself this episode with a great focus and like yeah he's a federation guy he does on some level understand that this is a broken person and the things that he's doing are because he's a broken person that's the federation perspective also from the perspective of trying to get through this and get what he needs he has to be nice he sort of has to massage

this guy when necessary and then he tough with him when he has to be and so he's being strategic, you know, but he also has a perspective of the person from the future looking at the past. I like B.C.'s response, though, when Cisco says, you'd better find a way to deal with that stress. It's sure to be a lot healthier for you in the long run. And then B.C. says, no kidding. Let me ask you something. And he flips his hat up. You think it looks better like this or like this? It was just, yeah, just didn't give a straight answer response. He just went right for what makes me look better. this, Preston asked

Webb if they can meet to talk about this, and Cisco asked to join Webb, so reasonable heads are going to go out and talk to this negotiator. Not BC and the Fedora. No, no. They go up by the main

gate, and Preston has basically made an offer to Cisco and Webb to give them some food in exchange for one of the hostages. And Cisco says, no hostages going to be released until we get what we want, which is that Jobs Act, the Federal Jobs Act, and the things shut down. But Preston does seem, you know, to be movable on this point.

And she says, okay, I can't make any promises, but I'm going to talk to the governor, see what he thinks. So it feels like maybe Cisco is succeeding. I think Preston wants, like, is genuinely concerned and wants a peaceful outcome. And also, like, there's that really nice line where she says, I'm going to feed you no matter what. Like, you're going to get this food no matter what. I mean, on two levels, like, shows that she cares. And then also, like, that's good hostage negotiation. Yeah. Yeah. Because you're, you're sort of getting people on your side. I'm here to help you. Yeah. I'm here. And your friend. Exactly. And as a viewer, it's a nice scene. It feels like it kind of calms you down from being so stressed about what's going to happen. It's nice to

have a little reprieve. Yeah. It's just a smart thing to do, right? We all feel a little bit satiated from the, the scary energy that's happening. But there's still more to come. Yeah. I felt like this is a very Renee bit, to be honest,

because like Renee was always like trying to bring sort of unexpected humanity characters that in a lot of times, a lot of shows you wouldn't bother with Preston being like, you know, typical way to do this back in those days but even now would just be tough as nails cop and just like hard nose all the time and he just made it a really empathetic sympathetic character who was also empathetic yeah that was a really nice nice touch yeah and you trusted her yeah yeah yeah she seems reasonable we have this tragedy we know it's not going to end well but right see that this person is trying yeah yeah yeah we go back into the

the processing center. Was this a set built on stage? I assume it was. Yes. I believe so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That sounds right. Was 17 our revolving? We had a revolving set in there. And we had the caves. We had the caves and the way back. And then all that space that we eventually filled up so much that you could barely walk through there. Yes. We put the Defiant in there. Yeah. Once we put the Define in there and then more pieces of Defiant. Terry, remember the Deep Space Nine maze game science that they put up? Maze game. No, I forgot. What is that?

Oh, my God, I can't believe I forgot. Once that stage got super, super full, construction put up these signs that said, welcome to the Deep Space Nine Maze game. Good luck. That's funny. Basically, like, finding your way through those, through that stage was insane. I mean, you just couldn't get through. You would end up in dead ends and like, it was impossible.

And our sets were so intense. We could have worked there 20 years. Wow. They were so solid. Yeah. They were amazing. We go back into the processing center. This is where Bashir is helping Lee, the lady that worked there.

She doesn't feel well. Bashir realizes, you know, he can feel, I guess, just her sweaty kind of hypoglycemic attack that she's having. He can kind of figures that out. Just clammy. He can see it, too. can see the way of perspiration without even feeling it. I had hypoglycemia while we were filming. Yeah, it's really bad. It's hard. So you need sugar then. You need something to bring it. Yeah, you need to maintain your blood sugar level because you create too much insulin.

Got it. So your body's basically your metabolism is just working super fast. Right. Yeah. Okay. Well, she is having a hypoglycemic attack. Bashir goes to help her. Cisco comes back. She asks about Cisco. She talks about when they checked in that she was the one check them in and Bashir calls him Gabriel Bell and she's like oh well he must have given me a false name when he first checked in and this is where she shares a story about a woman that that she checked in one time that she felt sorry for she didn't log her in let her disappear into the sanctuary that this woman was was brought into the sanctuary just because she didn't have enough money I guess to help her to to take care of her daughter

and so she'd given the daughter to relatives or something, but her punishment was throw her in the sanctuary. She's, you know. Yeah, for child abandonment. Responsible. Yeah, exactly. And it was very sweet that, you know, you see this woman who works in the system,

but sees all the flaws of the system, but still, you know, can't do much about it. But she does what she can. Sheer says, don't blame yourself for how things are. And I like her last line there where she basically says, you know, that's what everybody says. says, don't blame myself, but nothing ever changes if that's how we all act. So again, a nice lesson about, you know, every little bit will help if it's a step in

the right direction. So whatever you can do. Yeah. Again, like, you know, it's the whole idea that the federation is founded on the idea of everyone pitching in and doing the things that need to be done to make Paradise happen, which has always been like a big, deep space going, just like paradise doesn't come for free. You have to earn it. And this is a seminal event that helped form the Federation. And it made people realize that. Yeah, we have to fight for it all the time, our freedom. Yeah. There is a little bit of a passage of time. We're still in the processing center and people are asleep. BC is asleep. He's one of the sleep people. Cisco, I think, relieve someone on sleep duty. Yeah, Cisco's kind of walking and yawning. Walking around. Yeah.

Well, Vin is wide away, and he notices that B.C.'s asleep. So he tries to do the old sneaky, get out of here. Yeah, tiptoe out. But Cisco sees him. No, no, B.C. sees him, right? BC wakes up and sees him and pumps his shotgun. And he's about to shoot Vin as a standoff. Cisco is like, no, don't do it. Don't do it. And I just love it when B.C. says, well, give me one reason why not to. And Cisco's like, okay. And he pumps his shotgun and points it at Vin. But then. But Then later the dialogue gets pretty darn hilarious because BC's like, I thought we're on the same side. It's just like, yeah, we are. But you get on my nerves and I don't like your hat, which I is, again, that's very funny. The dialogue, but the gun, I don't like your hat. Like, you don't have to put that in there. But it makes us laugh as well, he's speaking BC's language too. Yeah, for sure.

In this moment, he's got to talk in a way that like a ghost, like a ghost. yeah exactly yeah well and you know avery just turns on his scary avery you know scary cisco bit there which is like that like i will out i will out crazy you i will out scare you you know which is somewhat unique to cisco as as a as a as a captain yeah i think you know he had that gear that i don't think any of our other captains have ever really had right where he could just be like Oh, shit. Yeah. So I thought that was baby.

You can tap into intense like nobody. Yeah. I've stood toe to toe with that intense. And there's, it's something exhilarating to work with someone that's that upset and so focused. Yeah. It helps you stay in your focus too. Because if you don't, you'll, you'll just crumble and the scene will die. Yeah.

It's funny because what that, because Cisco becomes Cisco, it gives Webb a little confidence. Webb actually walks up to BC right in front of the gun and just grabs the shotgun and pushes it down. Yeah, because you heard the man. And BC backs down. He backs down. He goes, you gimmies, no sense of fun.

And he walks, you know, kind of away a little bit. But Cisco at this point is really, really pissed because he feels like Vin is constantly undermining his ability to keep Vin alive, basically. Yeah. So Cisco, yeah, Cisco calls VIN over, and he's just like, hey. And he kind of roughs him up a little bit. He's just, oh, he does.

He's mad. He's so mad. I've never seen him that mad on DS9 to this point. Yeah. He went Cisco to the next level. Like he went to another. Cisco Square. Because he's saving the timeline, Cisco Square.

He has to save the timeline. Yes. He has to. It's imperative. Or we're going to vanish. It's Dick Miller. Dick Miller's not backing down. No, Dick Miller doesn't back down to anything.

That's true. Yeah, so you've got to go to 10 to get Dick Millard of back down, man. Yeah. So BC got Ciscoed, Vin got a double, like Robbie said, Cisco squared. He got a double espresso is what he did. Double espresso, double Cisco, please. Yes. He also knows in the timeline that the hostages all need to survive.

Yeah. So he's got to keep Vin a lot. Yes. They all have to because that would mess it up. One dying will ruin the timeline entirely. Every single one has to remain alive, right? But I just love Cisco's final statement to Vin. He says, you get back in that room and you shut up.

And it's just like, yes. I also like in this scene, this is the beginning of Vin's sort of cracking a little bit. Because he admits, oh, what do you want me to say that I feel for them, that they have a bad break? What good would it do? You see that he's aware, just like Lee's, you know, Lee sees the problems of this system. Vin sees him too. They feel help. yeah yeah yeah and they each cover it in different ways i mean we just tries to keep her head down

you know bernardo is completely focused on family and just like this is just a job i punch the clock i go home to my family he's all about his family and vin just has this attitude that he's just like completely dismissing these he's dehumanizing them to the point where he can he can do his job by just basically not even thinking them as people anymore yeah and that's what cisco is partially poking out as well. So it's sort of, you know, you can see the system is kind of grinding down not only the people who are trapped here,

but the people who are supposed to, you know, keep them this way. It's dehumanizing for them as well. So they're all victimized. Yeah, I mean, you know, in the Stanford prison experiment, no one walks away feeling good about themselves. Right, right.

That's kind of, we're going for here a little bit i just want to talk about one of my my pet peeves as a producer which is the infinitely rackable shotguns in this episode there's a lot of like of like shotgun racking and like gratuitous because it just makes a cool sound yeah it works it works for the episode i get it i understand why jonathan had and the actors are constantly racking their shotgun yeah you have to shoot them to be able to rack to the next yeah well or you're injecting you're ejecting loaded cartridges, which never inject either, which is really how guns. But it's a scary sound.

But it is a scary sound. It alerts everyone. After Voyager, I did a lot of procedurals, cop shows, and things like that. And then when you go back on to a sci-fi set where they're sort of loose with the rules, I'm like, you wouldn't walk around this corner without preparing drawing a weapon or being safe, you know. so I've found the procedurals being able to work in that space has helped in the sci-fi space a bit too you know keeping it real so yeah it's the same for me I think I think because after I did all these science fiction shows I did go off and too you know I've done a bunch of procedural too and

subsequently and it's just like you just get in your head the real rules of how to handle handle weapons and then you're on a sci-fi show and it's just like that's you wouldn't do that No, that's not a smart move. No, the next shot, we're back in the same spot where Kira and O'Brien beamed in before. We see a VW kind of camper van with flowers on it. So we know it's a different timeline. It's the 60s. The advertisement has changed.

The ad that was there with Madison Square Garden Boxing in the 30s. It says, it says Berman's Rainbow Dreamers. It's a band. So we got Rick Berman got to put his family name and his and Berman's Rainbow Dreamers are performing at the bear as in Iris Stephen Bear Theater. So Ira got to have his surname. Oh, that's funny. Yeah.

That's very funny. I love it. You've got these hippies. You've got the loud music. There's the peace sign bit that I love. The girl and guy get out of the van. The girl sort of, I think she gives Kara a flower. She gives them each a flower.

gives them a flower and yeah the peace sign bit is funny so cute because they don't know what it is no no they do it very hesitantly yes they're like is this a hello we don't know very awkwardly my favorite is because

it's an automatic be mouth that happens after 60 seconds or whatever it is I just love O'Brien's uh oh now these people are seeing and he's like wow wow it's so high let's smoke another jay yeah exactly I don't think they need more after that.

No, after that one, after the beam out. Oh, my gosh. Well, we go back to the processing center. The food's arrived. They've got some food. Webb's son arrives as well. He wants to be with his dad. He does tell his dad that mom and sister are safe.

And Webb sort of reluctantly agrees, but he says, if I tell you to leave, you're going to have to leave. You can stay here for now, but if things get bad, you're going to have to leave. And then we see Bashir has found some medicine. for Lee. So he gives her an injection. And Bernardo's looking at his family picture. Bashir sees that photo. And Bashir sort of without giving away the fact that they know the historical record, he wants to reassure like Bernardo about his family and Lee and everybody. And he says, you know, this is going to be worth it. Things are going to change. You know, he picked up on how

they were feeling and was able to kind of, without breaking the rules or showing, you know, all the details. able to reassure them in that moment. It was nice. I love Bashir's energy throughout this entire episode. Yeah. Yeah. He's very grounded. Yeah, very grounded. It's really nice to see him be in command of what he knows. He seems really calm and totally in sync with being a really good partner to Cisco. Yeah. The two episodes where Bashir's character, I think, finally kind of turns the corner. Yeah.

From being the sort of, he's kind of, he kind of, he. kind of has fully grown up by these episodes, which is cool. The thing, though, is even when he was sort of callow and hitting on everything that moved and everything when he first showed up and unintentionally being kind of colonial and all that stuff, he was always still a really good doctor. And I think that this is his bedside manner that we're seeing. We see him diagnose somebody, calm her down, you know, comp Bernardo down. He's being, this is the.

interpersonal skill part of being a doctor that he's actually very, very good at. I think that that was one of the things that we always, even when Bishir was being kind of an oath, but he was always a really good doctor, and that was really important to us. And so we were very much leaning into his doctor person. Let's have a little quote from Alexander Siddig. He said he felt that both past tense part one and past tense part two were important shows for Bersheer. This show was the end of the old Bersheer and the beginning of the new, more responsible Bersheer. He remarked Bashir had proved to everyone and himself that he can handle very tricky situations with almost no backup and no gizmos, not even the shotgun Cisco had. It became conceivable

that Bashir would be your first or second choice on a Noway team if you were going on a combat mission. I think they were a, I think they were a Renaissance pair of shows for Bashir. That's what Sid said. So, yeah. Yeah. That was the intention. And I think the intention of us his writers, but also his intention, because Sid was totally on board with making the character look terrible at the beginning, you know, and sort of being aware that he would have a seven-year arc with this character where he would be maturing throughout the show. And that was really going to be his arc. And I think he embraced that. I mean, early on, a lot of fans did not like Bashir and they were, you know, the testing on him was very bad. And it was like, yes, this is

intentional. He's not supposed to be your favorite character. He's supposed to be a character that annoys you and says stupid things and does stupid things because he's a 28-year-old hot shot out of the academy who's like also you know overcompensating for some things and and he he is going to grow and that was always the plan and this is really sort of a crew as well as Sid points out kind of crucial part of his growth is these episodes you had arcs for all of us there's nothing more fun I don't think anyway than watching a show and having each character have an arc. Yeah.

Because it satisfies us as human beings watching that too because we like to think that we're going to get better at what we do or we're going to be more healed. And to be able to watch that in Deep Space Nine, I think it's one of the things the fans really enjoy is watching the character development. They really appreciate it. I mean, again, like we had such a terrific task. that was able to do these kind of like it's very hard to show slow growth

over 170 something episodes both as writers but as cast too like rewatching these episodes I very much admire seeing how each of you sort of understood where you started and where you were going and sort of where you were in the process in any given episode

you know and I think that that's just it's a gift to the writers to know that we can give these scenes to people and also I think a gift to the fans because the show then has these really lovely long-term arcs for the characters

that they can appreciate on as they were watching but also nowadays screaming them. And it's fun. I think that's the best part about being in a series is not only the camaraderie on the set and working together but having a job where you're,

constantly growing and finding out new things. And it might not be every episode. There might be spans of time where you're keeping the status quo. But that's important too. That's important too. So yeah, thank you. Awesome. Thank you guys. I find it interesting, Robert, that you said that there was a lot of critique of Bashir season one too, whereas Robbie and I were definitely team Bashir. We like the oaf that we saw in the beginning. He made his laugh. He really did. So we waived the team Bashir flag season one and two. And we're definitely fans of him seeing, watching him mature as well. I think, you know, I just thought it was a very clever bit of, of planning by, by Michael,

knowing that the show was going to be on, you know, pretty much knowing we would get seven years or having faith that we would. And knowing you could start a character in this place where he would be, you know, would put his foot in his mouth frequently and, you know, make you cringe. And knowing that you would get to where he gets to by the end, where he is, he is like an admirable Starfleet officer and amazing doctor and a guy who's been through it. And, you know, also just same thing. Dax, someone who just has gotten this symbiate and is struggling to sort of understand all

these past lives and is now very aware of them, but and is confusing. And it's trying to find her own identity as a sort of. sort of hybrid between herself and all these past identities to where she gets to by the end. Well, unfortunately. Yes. But by the time she gets there, she's much more integrated. She's much more kind of like at ease with herself and has gone through this journey and has figured it out.

And she's already very far along here. Yeah, I think so too. So we're at the sanctuary main gate again, Preston's back. And she tells Webb and Cisco that the governor's willing to reduce the charge. charges and look into the matter of, you know, some of their complaints if they free all the hostages. And Cisco says, well, nothing's going to change. He's going to form a committee? Like, no. And then Webb gets really wound up and basically insists on their demands. And he says, if they ever want to see these hostages again, they better do what we're asking. And they walk off.

And I think this is when, as they're walking off, Cisco goes, tough talk. And Webb goes, yeah, I was bluffing. I couldn't tell. So it was, it was nice. And I like the way Franks did this sort of high, wide shot of them walking away. He didn't cover those lines at the end. He just let it play and sort of the heroes walking off in the sunset kind of shot. It was nice.

Really good. Now we're getting to a very exciting moment where a manhole cover starts moving around in the middle of the street. Yeah. And it's not a sanitation worker. It's Dax comes out. out of there. Yes. Surprise.

Surprise. And I might add a very well-coffed and very clean Dax who just emerged from the sewers. I was like, what? She's just that good. A cat. You know, cats can clean themselves.

Dax can clean herself. Dax is a cat. Jerry Bono used to complain he couldn't keep the dirt on me. They'd put fake dirt on me. I don't think they did in this scene. But they would. And then it would just, like, where'd it go?

I'm like, I promise you, I didn't touch it. It's just pretty weird. I can't help it. Like I only sweated from here down. My face never got sweaty. It was so weird. Dax doesn't seem to have any problem moving that manhole cover, which makes me remember you say that like,

she's strong. She's very strong. And what they call that? They call that farm strong. You know, that's the type of strength. Iowa Farm Strong. Yeah.

Well, I didn't grow up in a farm. Okay. But yeah, it's the corn. Do you remember being down in that manhole? What was down there? Yeah. Nothing. It's just a, you're just in a cylinder.

It's a fake, it was a fake sewer. Oh, right? Yes. There was no real sewer there. No. No. Okay. And I remember pretending to make it difficult to move.

Were you claustrophobic, though? No, I know how to breathe and all of that through stuff like that. So I'm pretty good. I mean, there are sometimes when it gets me shook up, but overall, no, I would not label myself as somebody who's claustrophobic. I am. I am. I'm sorry. But the manhole was fake, though, Terry?

It was a fake man. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, I don't think it was light. I mean, it's there on the Paramount Lod. It's made to withstand weather and everything. So it's actually metal. It's actually, it's a metal steel.

It's not iron. It's not like a real. It's not a real manhole. I know. But the cover itself was fake to. But there's some weight to it because I don't remember if it was rubber or not. I mean, it could have been a really hard rubber. Hmm.

Well, you faked it good. Later, though. Sid slides it over and he makes it seem like it weighs a ton. Yes, he does. He does. Clearly, Dax is much stronger than much stronger. Which is probably true anyway. Yeah, I think so.

Well, as Dax starts walking down the street, we reveal Clint Howard is following her. Yeah. I love it. I didn't look at the cast list before. So this is the first moment. And I was like, oh, my God, it's Clint Howard. Oh, my God. We were all excited.

But now that we know that it was written for Iggy Pop, boy, that would have been even creepier to watch Iggy Pop pop out of there. That might have been scary. Yes. Yeah. And that's what they were going for. Because Clint makes me smile. He doesn't scare me.

Clint Howard makes me, oh, he was in the original series. Yeah. 5,000 other roles. So, yeah. Well, we go back to the processing center. Cisco and Bashir cannot access the interwebs. or whatever they called it. Interface.

The interface. They can't access it. And Cisco says, you know, according to history, they told their story to millions of people. So they have to make sure this happens. We've got to get connected. That's when Dax is brought in by some DIMS and B.C. What does B.C say?

Listen up. A couple of DIMs just brought us a little present. And there we see Dax. Without her Com badge, though. Right. Well, B.C. seems in love with Dax. Bishir comes over and hugs Dax. So

to B.C., it looks like you're a couple. And I didn't mind in that moment. Dax did not mind. He shook her up a little bit. He's a little nerving that guy. He introduces himself to Dax. And now we know what B.C. stands for. Biddle

Coleridge. Yes. What a name. Did you come up with that, Robert? He would rule. Wolf. I think Ira and I came up with that when we first we're introducing him and we just thought you must have

some ridiculous first name and you got it. Biddle Coleridge. I love it. My name were Biddle. I would also use B.C. That's why he's so messed up. Oh, I get it.

It's messed up by the name. Your guy had no chance. But your names are awesome. The DS9 names are way better than the Voyager names I feel so far. Good names. Good names. I like Biddle Coleridge. Ziptoe. Come on.

Let's go. Well, Bashir reminds Dax, oh, you remember you're a good friend, my good friend, Gabriel Bell. So he's kind of trying to help get her to play along, which she does. I love these moments because these are so quintessential old Star Trek for me. Yeah. When it's like watching the team kind of play along, it's like, look how good they are. They just roll with it. Yeah.

Yeah, it was great. Yeah, Dax totally rolled with it. Yeah. And Dax explains that she recoded her. ID card so she could get past the sanitation department checkpoint. That's when B.C. is like, what? You crawled through the sewers? You must really like these guys. And that's when I said, oh, they did not put anything to make it look like she crawled through sewers. No. She came on a metro, you know, I don't know. She came on the subway. It didn't look like. Hovered over that poop.

Yes. You don't know that I can fly. Yes. We didn't know your Mary Poppins. Yes. Dax is also Mary Poppins is able to levitate over all the poo, which is amazing. So good. She re-engineered her ComBadgined into an anti-gravity belt. Yes, exactly. So cute. Combat is re-engineered. She's so smart.

She was able to hover over the poo. Yes. I just wanted to go back to you very quickly was when Terry is talking about how everybody, or you guys were talking about how everyone is really good at what they're doing. There's a theory. It's called, I don't remember what it's called, but basically we used to call the Hawksine professional. People love to watch competence.

That's one of the things that's one of the secrets to Star Trek is that everyone is really competent and well-intentioned and they work really hard and they're very good at their jobs. And people enjoy watching people who are good at what they're doing. And this is sort of an example of our characters as these, as we would just call them the Hawksine professionals after Howard Hawks, the director. He would always make sure that in his movies,

the characters were all sort of good at what they do. And that was just one of his, I think it was his theory or someone's theory that he embraced in his storytelling. And I think in comedy, it's always fun in comedy to watch people not be good at what they're... 100%. Like Lucille Ball. They're trying so hard to be good at it,

but they just miss it. But in a heroic drama, you want everyone to be great at their jobs, but then be in these situations where it's almost impossible to succeed anyway despite their confidence and then see how they figure it out. Yeah.

Well, we go over to Lee's cubicle next. Dax understands that Cisco's going to stay here, that he's determined to correct the timeline and he's not just going to bail out of here. So Cisco tells them to find Dax's com badge, and then he'll meet them at the Beeman's site, and if he's not there, that they should just leave him. So a real heroic sacrifice. Huge for Cisco here. But Shear also says that Dax needs to get out of here because she's a little.

and you know if she were to get arrested or doctors were to check her out they'd figure that out pretty quickly so she's got to get off this this timeline out of this timeline yeah but Bashir also in a heroic way says I'll take her to get her combat I'll get her out of here but I want to come back he tells Cisco you know I want to come back and help you and Cisco agrees but also this is the scene where Dax says that she can help with the internet the blocked internet right she has an idea oh and the other thing that comes out in the scene is, I think Dax mentions that her comb badge that they took from her

is emitting a distress signal, a subspace distress signal. So that's kind of important for us to know later on that's going to help them get out of here. Yeah, we go back out into the sanctuary district where everybody lives. Dax is showing Bashir where she was taken and Bashir's hopeful that Chris can help him get back on the net to send out this message

as it happened historically. millions of people need to see the message. When they get inside, there's, there's Grady, Clint Howard. And he tries to be invisible. I love the moment where it's like, yeah, he went, whoosh, right? I'm invisible. It was so cute. That's a great old moment.

Yeah. Super sweet little scene. You can still see me, but here's like, barely, barely. No, he's like, as long as they can't see me. And Doc says, who? And Grady goes, the aliens. They'll suck your brains out right through your ears. It's a great dialogue in this scene.

So good. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Dax admits she's an alien in the scene to Grady. But Grady says, oh, you're a good alien, though. To protect Earth, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. She says she's here to protect Earth from its enemies. Right. But she needs that piece of jewelry back that he took. And he gives it back. And he gives it back. And Dax says, don't tell anybody. and he agrees.

So great little scene. Great, great, sweet moment, very sweet. Back in the street, Dax is going back into the poop tube. Is this where Bashir barely moves the cover? Is this the scene? Yeah, he's acting. The one that just blings open. Yeah.

Okay. Well, no, to be fair, like, she, you did, Terry does play it as heavy, but Bashir plays it like it weighs twice as much as the wind. Yes, he does. He really. And knowing Sid, he wouldn't be offended. He'd be laughing at us right now. Well, I'm sure.

Because it probably was heavier for me. Yeah, Dax goes down in the sewer, Bashir runs off, and then we cut a little time jump Dax's and Chris's office next. Totally clean because she levitated over the poop again when she went. Oh, yeah. And I smell like a rose. You do. Exactly.

No sweat, no dirt. Nothing. Yeah. She's trying to convince Chris to help her reestablish the net connection. he says he's going to lose his license if he does that but he does mention but i'll get some good ratings which sounded very much like a ted turner line yes that is a ted turner line yeah but dax also gets the situation here like she you know she's very sympathetic to to what's going on because she's got a great speech you know sooner or later the government's going to retake this place and

when they do people are going to die she's very sympathetic with us and we go back in the processing center all of these gimmies are there telling their stories to the world. So we've got this guy named Henry talking about how he came to work at a brewery, but he just got laid off and then ended up here. In Henry's story, he talks about working at this brewery and they got some new equipment. So technology kind of took over his job, which I thought was an interesting little detail about, I mean, look at AI now. look at what's happening in our in our lives that was our imagined reason for all this

unemployment was the idea that automation was was increasing i just want to shout out uh daniel zaka here because he's a day player and i don't know whether people are aware of what that means but basically it means that you're you're brought on to do like one day's work usually that's a line or two and you're not like like for example the um the guy who leads the assault later same kind of thing but daniel has to give this really heartfelt speech about his backstory and how he got here and he does a great job and that is not easy to do as a as an actor and so i think you know it's definitely worth pointing out that absolutely this guy is like coming in he's here only one day he really has no um no status or status no knowledge of the show probably

or very little he doesn't really even interact with anybody he just has to give this one heartfelt speech and he totally nails it he nailed it yeah it was really good yeah really really when he was doing this beautiful speech i was mesmerized by him but i was also aware behind him was a background actor who looked like amelia airhart to me It's like, is Amelia Earhart? That was just for you, Robbie. Just for this moment. I was like, what is Amelia Earhart doing in this?

Her hair, her outfit, everything looked like Amelia Earhart. Yeah, now we know. Her plane crashed in the sanctuary. That's where it was, yes. She went through a time warp and that's what happened. Okay. Yeah. Back outside.

And Preston is on the phone trying to get some more time from the governor. Yeah. I just noticed her cell phone look like a Motorola flip phone, but a large one. Like, do you remember in the 90s, the bigger one, they had the big battery and it had the, not the razor. That was tiny, but the big flippies. Yeah. It looked a lot like that to me. You know, what's weird is I usually when I watch this for the first time, I turn on the, I turn on the subtitles just to see alien, you know, names and whatever.

and it's usually pretty precise whatever someone says on screen you see it in the subtitles. This is the first episode where it was not correct because you hear in the background, yeah. You hear in the background some voiceover of someone making an announcement

like over, it says governor blah blah has decided that there's like an overall like an announcement thing but it clearly to me says that it was Governor Chen but then on screen it said governor rivers so they totally changed the i was so confused i was like it's the way they have

multiple governors in the future very strange they got like a dozen of a bunch of you governors fine all right i believe in a car they shout out governor chen there's like some graffiti you know really no really chen resign or something there's like some there's some graffiti in the background when they go to LA in 2024 in Picard that shouts out Governor Chen and very unpopular governor of Governor Chen.

Wow. C-H-E-N though, right? So it's the Chinese spelling. So I could play the unpopular Governor Chen now. That's in the canon, yes. Absolutely. Well, I did like in this scene that Preston had a sidekick,

an older guy. Do you remember the guy that was standing there while she was on the phone? Yes. And then somebody came over and whispered in his ear and then they left.

Like all this business is going on. Yes. And then at the end, Preston turns to him and says the governor's made of his mind. We move in at 0500. Yeah. And the silent sidekick just nods and nods and walks on. But I was like, he was doing a good. He had a whole bunch of life going on.

He did. Or a no line role. Yeah. I think, you know, credit also to Franks for that. It's a very lively episode. Yeah. With regard to that, it feels even bigger than it is. And that's partially because he, you know,

invested a lot of the background or day players or extras with stuff, you know, or had the ADs do it, depending on whether they were extras or paid actors. He really kept all that with like the background dims, the background ghosts, the, you know, the cops, the people outside. Everyone is moving with purpose, you know, constantly. And there's no people just like where you're looking at them. What the hell is that person even doing? You know, they're all very specific.

yeah because if they don't know what they're doing it ruins the scene they can but not in this case good job freaks well the next scene is in the transporter room back on the defiant uh they're trying to figure out this timeline like where they need to go and this is where they basically realized the last time that they jumped they were in the year 2048 and they know it has to be before that because what they saw in that 2048 timeline had changed from the history book. So they've narrowed it down to like three times and they only have enough chronotone particles for one more jump. So Kira says, well, Chief, pick one.

Let's hope you get lucky. And I love when Miles is kind of looking at the times and he's like, and he just points at one. It's like, let's do that one. It seems so random, yes. And he goes, that's my best guess. I don't know. I mean, he is making an educated guest.

Like, the way Colin plays it, he plays it kind of like a little for comedy. Yeah. But the idea is that O'Brien is looking at these events and thinking, well, what could have produced what we just saw in 2048 or whatever it was? Yeah. And, oh, okay, if this didn't happen, try this, you know. It is his best guest. but it's not completely a shot in the garb.

Uneducated, yeah. Well, they make the guests. They beam out and we go down to a San Francisco street, and they made it. Miles picks up immediately a subsubase of distress signal, and Kira starts calling for Dax. In Chris's office, Dax was sleeping or napping. I was exhausted. Imagine. It would have been nice if I were on a couch instead of slumped in a chair.

In the chair. I mean, doesn't that man have enough money to have a couch in his office? I would think so. He's Ted Turner, right? Exactly. Yeah. So if you are, if the combat is removed from your uniform, it automatically gives off a distress, subspace distress signal? I think she.

No. I said it. You said for that. Okay. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Well, Dax wakes up, chats with Kira for a minute.

Kira says the transporters are going to automatically beam them back in about a minute. so they deactivate their com badges so they won't get beamed off yet so we can have more time here and Dax says she'll meet them where they're at. So they're going to hook up and get together and they'll reactivate their com badges, you know, for tomorrow when the next beam out happens. So they've got a plan. We go to the processing center next. They're talking sports here. Vin, Bernardo, Cisco seem to all love baseball, not Bashir. What does Bishir say? Doesn't he talk about?

Tennis. Oh, he prefers tennis. That's right. Lee likes soccer. That's her game. But it's nice you see this bonding with Cisco and Vin and Bernardo because it's going to help. You know, it's all about kind of softening up Vin and Bernardo.

Yeah. To work with them. Right. It's a nice bonding. And it's a conversation people have, which is kind of great. It's just a, yeah. And I love that they bring up that he, of course, talks about the Kings and Buck Bukai because it's like, oh, that's our time.

That's our universe. Exactly. Also, we predicted that the 99 Yankees would win the World Series. I just want to just. That's crazy. That is crazy that you guys did that. I just because Vin says it, right? Vince says it was a 1999 New York Yankees.

And in reality, the Yankees did win the World Series in 99. So you guys are like Nostradamus. That's unbelievable. That's powerful intention. Also, Ira is a huge Yankees fan. I feel like you guys should get a World Series ring out of this. You're basically predicted it. Here's another random tidbit.

Cisco discusses the London Kings and Buck Buckeye with Vin, played by Dick Miller. Both the player and the team were first mentioned during Dick Miller's first Star Trek appearance in Star Trek Next Generation episode, The Big Goodbye. So that's interesting there. Oh, wow. That happened. Hmm. I wasn't even aware of that.

Yeah. That's crazy detail. Yes. BC says the National Guard are, more National Guard are arriving. That something's up. They're on the move. That's when Webb tells his son he's going to have to leave for safety. They hug.

It does feel that that hug feels a little foreshadowy that like Webb's not going to see a son again. I was waiting for them to just say, I love you. Yeah. It's such a dangerous time, even if it's not foreshadowing a death, which I was thinking, well, they probably didn't say I love you because then that sort of says, oh, too much foreshadowing. Yeah. Yeah. Too much. But it's just a thing you do, especially when you're, don't know what I'm going to see you next. Yeah. I felt it, though. It was a nice, it was a really nice non-dialogue moment, just to hug itself. And then BC gives him his hat, which is a big deal. which is another kind of like oh yeah yeah they're they're prepared to die yeah i kind of felt like that was his redemption moment is that he kind of gave that hat to that kid sort of like look you know kid um i'm gonna be dying for cause basically yeah and i'm gonna this is my will my one most precious item this fedora which could have been a beanie with a propeller this fedora i'm going to give to you

young man and you're going to you know carry on my legacy in a way so in a way yeah In a way. It's interesting. Bill and I did a panel on past tense at the Las Vegas convention. And this was the moment he was talking. He remembered this specific moment as being like really powerful when when B.C. gives his son the hat. Yeah. And it was one of the things we were talking about again.

Like the Federation is made of small acts of human kindness. And in a weird way, this is like B.C.'s nicest thing the B.C. does. Yeah, it is. Because it's not his son. It's Webb's son that he gives it to. So that's huge. But he also knows on some level that Webb is probably going to die, right? Right.

And in a way, what he's saying is like, B.C. has a lot of issues, obviously. But one of them is that he's a survivor and he's strong, you know, and that he's able to, that at some level he's able to overcome or persevere through some pretty horrible circumstances. And so he's kind of giving the kid his armor. His survivor kind of, you know. the thing that he imbues with his ability to survive and be tough and be strong. Interesting.

You know, just think it's a really nice moment. It is. Super sweet moment. Gorgeous. Well, they prepare for battle. We hear some helicopter sounds. The front doors blow open in a very dramatic onset effects shot. A gunfight happens.

Webb is shot. B.C. is shot. Cisco even gets shot. Trying to protect Vin, who runs out. Vin's yelling at the cops. Like stop shooting, stop shooting. They have a little exchange and the police decide to move on because there's more trouble. Here's where the police also say that there were rumors that you guys were dead.

And Vin's like, do I look dead to you? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, which is part of that, the history of Cisco talked about. You know, everybody thought they were dead and they weren't. So everything's on track to get us back in the right timeline. But she does take a look at Cisco, who did get shot up in the shoulder. area. Boucher says he's going to live.

And then the scene ends with them going to check on Webb, but we don't, I don't know if we get a clear answer. At least it wasn't clear to me. Is Webb dead? Well, I assume it was dead for sure. I said he's dead, right? Yeah. Yeah.

It's interesting because they have trouble trying to access the net and you have someone named Webb, as in the worldwide web. I don't know what that ain't do with this, but yeah. We cut outside onto the street and it's now daylight. We can see casualties. everywhere. This was a very clever twist because this whole episode, I was like, how is Cisco going to fake die or die? Like, how is that part of the history going to be kept intact? Yeah. And Vin decides to let Cisco and Bashir go, but he thinks, I'll take your ID cards,

put him on someone who has died. Yeah. And people will think that they died in the riot so you can escape. Yeah. Very clever. Very. Yeah. Simple genius. So this is the one shot Jonathan Whiffed on a little bit, to be honest. Oh, really? Because he was supposed to shoot it on a day where we had like 150 extras.

That was my point. With a crane that we also had. Oh, yeah. And we never have 150 extras. We never have a crane. And I don't know why, because we weren't on set. The riders were on set. But for some reason, that shot never got done.

Yeah. Whether he ran out of time or he just whiffed or he decided it wasn't worth the effort. Frakes did not get that shot. And so we had to go back a few days later when we realized that he had nothing. He never had the shot with any kind of scope and just get as many extras as we could and a ladder. Oh, wow. Instead of a crane, a ladder. Instead of a crane and got the shot, a steal, steal, steal a shot. That's why it was so sparse. It was very very. That's why I was so sparse. I mean, look, Franks did a terrific job on this episode.

Like you said, got him the first contact job. And he did a great job. Well, is this like literally these are the first, this is the third show he's ever directed? Third DS-9. He's done a bunch of next generations as well by now. But still, it's like kind of new. It's not like he's got his 10,000 hours yet, right? In directing?

Yeah. Look, I mean, crane shots, as they say, are where the schedule goes to die yeah especially yeah especially back then crane shots are really can be really time consuming and so i i'm sure you know frakes didn't just forget about it no i'm sure they were no there had to be a reason i'm sure it well but he he didn't uh throw frakes never threw anyone else under the bus he didn't like say well the ad told me i couldn't get it or whatever yeah um he just took yeah he just took the blame well that's the kind of guy is yeah 100% Like, yeah, I mean, the buck stops here, right, when you're the director.

Yeah, and Frank C is definitely a guy who, look, he's a stand-up guy. He's not going to, like, he's not going to throw Oster or, or, you know, or somebody else under the bus for it. But, you know, it was just tough. Yeah, you need this wide shot. So we got the best we could get. And that's what we have. But yeah, it was just, it was just a thing that fell through the cracks in the production. Yeah, clearly.

Thank you for giving us that little last piece of the jigsaw puzzle on that. Well, the next shot is in space. We hear another first officer's long from Kira. She says upon returning to the present with our missing crew members, we were relieved to discover the timeline has been restored. So everything worked out. In Cisco's cabin, he's kind of leaning back on a bed or something there, just kind of recovering.

And he's very quiet. Bashir comes in and shows Cisco the historical record with Cisco's face is now in the historical record as Gabriel Bell. I love that moment. Yeah. Cisco's like, I'm not looking forward to explaining this one to Starfleet Command. Yeah, that's going to call some problems down the line, for sure. Yeah.

But the timelines restored. Yeah, that's what the moment counts, right? Yeah. Justco, like Kirk, has a long list of temporal violations that eventually gets called out for coming up. in a couple seasons. I will say that when Bashir says, well, at least it's a good picture. And he says,

you know, commander, having seen a little of the 21st century, there is one thing I don't understand. How could they have let things get so bad? And Cisco answers, that's a good question. I wish I had an answer. It's really a challenge to people.

Yes, but it was so time. It's so now. You know what I'm saying? In a way. It was timely. It was like, yeah, timeline. It was so timely.

It was like, wow, I can see that that being spoken now. Nothing's really fundamentally changed. Yeah, bad but true. Mm-hmm. But again, it just makes you think. So I just love that you guys included that line of dialogue there. Great two-parter.

Yeah. Very good. I wrote out a long description of a theme or a lesson. I said, as long as we do the right thing, the best that we can, can that progress and solutions will find a way, even if it's not the way we first imagine. Oh, very nice. Yeah. Yeah, because, you know, they didn't know how they were going to fix the timeline or, you know,

or even how they were going to solve this sanctuary problem. Nobody had a clear answer of how it was going to end, but you just do one step at a time, do the right thing. Every little thing will add up. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Terry? I had always fight for the greater good.

Great, yeah. Just simple. But yeah. Robert. Paradise isn't free. Yeah. It takes sacrifice and hard work and small acts of kindness. Yeah.

Random small acts of kindness. I love it. Yeah, for me, I think just looking at the overall theme of the deep, dehumanization of people without homes, people that don't have jobs. And I really feel that the lesson here for me is people are people, the golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated, and that we need to guard against dehumanization, because that is something that happens on a daily basis all around the world. So that's the lesson for me. Nice. Our Patreon poll winner for Theme Moral for this episode is submitted by Alex Ray.

Some of the worst problems happen so slowly that we don't notice until it has caused unimaginable harm. Great. Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion of past tense part two with our special guest, Robert Hewitt Wolfe, who has been absolutely amazing. We've been so happy to happen. Thank you, Robert.

Thank you so much. Happy to be here. Yeah. So for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little bit more time with the amazing Robert Hewitt Wolf for everyone else. Join us next time and we will be recapping and discussing the episode Life Support with Armin. So until then, bye. You know, B.

Burt, Bhopal, B. Bhopal, B B. B B

B, B B, B Thank you.