The Delta Flyers - Projections

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Projections. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.Projections:The Doctor must distinguish between reality and fantasy when the Voyager appears to have been the victim of a Kazon attack.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise, and Rebecca Jayne, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Stephen Smith, Eve Mercer, Sarah A Gubbins, Ann Marie Segal, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Jason Self, Daniel Adam, Chris Knapp, Michelle Zamanian, Matthew Gravens, Brian Barrow, Mary Jac Greer, Megan Hurwitt, James Zugg, Mike Gu, John Tufarella, and Shannyn Bourke.And our Producers  Chris Tribuzio, Jim Guckin, Peter Patch, Steph Dawe Holland, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Liz Scott, Deborah Schander, Eleanor Lamb, Thomas Melfi, Breana Harris, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Father Andrew Kinstetter, Ann Harding, Gay Kleven-Lundstrom, Gregory Kinstetter, Laura Swanson, Máia W, Charity Ponton, Josh Johnson, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Katie Johnson, Craig Sweaton, Maggie Moore, Ryan Hammond, Nathanial Moon, Warren Stine, York Lee, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, Dave Grad, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Katherine Puterbaugh, Claire Deans, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Matthew Cutler, Crystal Komenda, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Col Ord, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Oliver Campbell, Selina Zhong, Anna Post, Evette Rowley, Robert Hess, Cindy Ring, Nathan Butler, Terry Lee Hammons, and Andrei Dunca. Thank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey guys. Welcome to the Delta Flyers. We are a weekly podcast that discusses episodes of Star Trek Voyager in chronological order. Your two fantastic hosts along this podcast journey are myself, Gerard Long, aka Ensign Harry Kim, and the talented and handsome Robert Duncan McNeil, who portrayed Lieutenant Tom Parris, if you're interested, in either an extended version of this podcast or the extended video version of this podcast, both of which include added bonus fun segments. Check out Patreon page at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron. Very nice, talented, handsome.

Nice. You can keep those in the script, in the formal script. Some of these improvs, you know, I'm fine if you want to keep them. So how you've been? You're all right? You good?

Good. Yeah. Okay. I'm good. I'm trying to think what's up in life, nothing, you know, more of this quarantining. There's more of, like I talked to, everybody I talked to goes, you know, this started, everybody said, oh, a couple of weeks, we're going to shut down our office or, you know, a couple of weeks.

And four months later, we're kind of in the same place or five months later, you know. Yeah. Well, there's time is just weird. Well, it sucks because, you know, like California reopened. and now shut back down again because I think it was a little bit too early. So there's now spikes again in the cases, and it's kind of scary, to be honest. Yeah. Yeah.

So this week's episode is projections. We're into season two, and boy, it's exciting. It's the thick of season two. This is the third episode of season two. And for those of you who are our patrons, we are about to play a game of what do we remember for everyone else who's listening to this podcast. Please stay tuned as Robbie and myself go and watch this episode and come back and give you our analysis.

Thanks, guys. All right, guys, we are back from watching this episode, Projections. Yes. Robbie, you want to give your synopsis and then I'm going to do my short haiku version of? First of all, I was right. As you were. I was right.

I remembered something. Dwight Schultz. Parkley was there. Markley was there. I did not remember that Jonathan Frakes directed this episode, but I knew maybe that's what I was doing. I was shadowing,

so I bet that's why I remember this one. Basic synopsis is we start with, the episode opens up with a doctor on a ship, and the computer says there's no life signs. He's by himself. They've abandoned ship. And all of a sudden, things start getting weird, You know, some of the crew shows up,

Alana shows up and has a story about all this damage. And then the captain is on the ship. We find they've been in a battle. It seems like the doctor can now travel around the ship. They tell him, they've got hollow projectors all over the ship. He starts to become a hero and he starts slowly having symptoms of human physical feelings. He starts feeling a headache. he starts feeling hungry, he starts feeling all kinds of things.

So eventually Barclay shows up and tells him that Voyager's not real, that it's all a simulation, it's always been a simulation, and that he's actually a real human, and Voyager was the simulation. It says the only way you can get out of this is to destroy the ship, and he comes very close to convincing the doctor to destroy the ship, And suddenly Chocote appears and says, wait a minute, this is not true. Barclay's not real. This whole thing is a simulation.

Your program has been affected by this subspace anomaly. And we're trying to fix it and get you back online. And ultimately, he does get back online. So a really exciting episode, actually. I enjoyed it. I thought Jonathan Frick's appearance as a direct. was later. I didn't think this was it. I thought his first time directing was the episode where we have the robot. I think it's prototype, which is later in this season. So I was confused.

I was like, wait a minute. Did Franks begin this quickly? And yes, his name is on this episode. So he obviously did begin. He did this. Well, when I saw his name, I was like, you know what else? I, because I've continued to work with Jonathan, I'm going to reach out to him and we're going to get him on this podcast. I think Jonathan directed this episode and then maybe a couple more in season two, as I recall. I feel like by season three, he may have directed one, but that's when, you know, Jonathan was supposed to direct Sacred Ground, the episode that I ended up directing, my first episode. that's why I got that episode was because Jonathan was supposed to direct it and then he was approved to direct

first contact the feature and that because he had it back out of our episode to go do the first contact it left an opening a last minute opening and that's why I got that first opportunity do you think you would not have directed season two if that opportunity did not open up for freaks

it was season three I always think that I direct I directed season two, but it was season three before I directed. Oh, okay. I think I would have directed eventually because I just was determined. I mean, yeah, I think it would have happened, but it may not have happened for another year or more. Where's your poem? I want to hear the synopsis.

This time will be my first time doing the haiku, which is five syllables, seven syllables, five syllables. So I have to be extremely succinct. Okay, so. Let me just get, let me just relax. You ready? I just want to take all this in, yeah. Okay.

Okay, Andy. For those of you who are watching our video podcast, I'm going to kind of with my fingers number off the syllable so we know that. Okay. So 575, the doctor appears. Is he real or projected radiation bad? That's funny. That's funny.

Good. 575. the doctor the doctor appears that's five right is he real or projected at seven radiation bad to the last stands the last line of verse was the most difficult because radiation already took up four of my five syllables yeah right so i only had a one syllable left because i wanted to say like the radiation was was at fault we caused it but there's nothing that could fit one syllable. Bad.

Other than the, yeah, it's like a radiation bad. So it sounds a little preschoolish, but, you know, no, I like a coupon. So this episode is written by Brandon Braga, directed by Jonathan Frakes. Before we start getting into the nitty-gritty, I just want to say that the laptop that the doctor uses in sickbay, which is similar to the laptop that Kate uses in her ready room, right? Yeah.

is very bulky. Oh, it's huge. It's massive. And that's the one thing that sort of doesn't stand up over time, like the test of time. You watch this, you sit and go, whoa, that's a 90s-era laptop, you know. Well, even a tricorder, my God, look at my phone. Yeah, your phone is more, more compact than a tricorder. I think they just kept, you know, they built these props in the 80s for for next generation.

Yeah. And because we were sort of stuck in that timeline by the time the 90s came around, we're kind of stuck with those, you know, it wouldn't have made sense if we're in the same timeline and we have better, you know, technology than NextGen did. So they just sort of kept the same designs so that our timelines all fit. But our designs were stuck in the 80s, even though the 90s had, I had an Apple laptop. back then. I forget what it was called, the 135 or the 110 or something, the first laptops. And they were smaller, even in 1994. My laptop was smaller than our props on set because props were designed in the 80s. So we can blame it all on TNG. Yeah. It's their fault. Stuck with their old technology. Yeah, I will say that I loved this episode. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I thought just from the very first shot. Okay.

It was super simple, but it was beautifully composed and graphic when the doctor appears in that darkened sick bay, and it's just kind of suspenseful, and he moves forward, and the camera pushed in, and it was one shot, one simple little scene. And to me, I was like, I'm in. Like, this is exciting. I want to see why, what's going on here?

and I don't always feel that way. I feel like sometimes we sort of sneak into our stories and they're so much more complicated than I need to be. This was just right dead on. I thought Dwight Schultz was great as Barclay. So it was refreshing to see that character. And I thought it was, you know, these are all overall thoughts,

but I thought it was beautifully directed by Frakes. I think he did some really cool stuff that we can talk about as we go through. But like that opening shot, I thought it was super effective. And it was a oneer, just one shot. Didn't need a ton of angles to make it exciting. It was, you know, suspenseful and tense.

And, yeah, I liked it a lot. Yeah, he did create that, that tension for sure. And there's the suspenses there because you're really not sure what's going on. You're thinking, is this a dream sequence? But then why is the doctor dreaming? You know what I'm saying? Like he's not, he's a computer program. And not until you get to the mess hall scene, you really, at least for me,

me as a viewer, do I start to then question this reality? I start thinking, what's, what's happening? Because it's, it's more like, because it doesn't seem very realistic that he's, he's keeping this vicious Cazon warrior at bay with, with a bread roll and fruit, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, it seemed a little silly. Yeah, it was like, it's a little city. Why is this food fight happening? You know, and I'm almost wondering, was it scripted that way that he's, like, was he throwing food at him specifically? Or did Franks go like, hey, wouldn't it be funny if he's just throwing like food instead of, kitchen utensils at him. So I'm wondering, you know, was it scripted that way? I'd like to look into that script and see what it says. Well, it's funny. I had the same feeling in the mess hall

scene. I thought, you know, by the time we got there and in that part of the story, I was already like, this, something's, I don't buy this. Like, this is not real. But backing up before that, so right after that first scene in the opening credits, we come into the doctor getting all this information from the computer about this battle and the crew had to evacuate and, you know, escape pods and everything. And I thought it was beautifully done because I remember Rick Berman saying something that I've always remembered as a director. He was watching a cut of an episode and he wasn't happy with it because it was just the actors

were standing there talking and the camera wasn't moving and there was no movement from the characters weren't moving. and they were just standing and talking. And he said, you know, he goes, you know, they call this motion pictures for a reason. He goes, it's not a still life painting. It's not a photograph. You don't just stand there. He said, I want the camera to be moving or the actors to be moving.

So that scene with the doctor in sickbay, he's listening to the computer. But yet the shot was this 360 that sort of followed the doctor around completely in a circle as he listened. and it not only gave the movement like Rick was talking about, but it showed you that he's alone, that nobody else is here. Like it created this suspense. It was a very simple shot, but those kind of things to me,

I noticed those things as a director and just as a viewer, you know, the choices were very smart. That story that you just said, you actually told that story. But I, you know, that advice from Rick Berman, I've thought about that a thousand times in the last 20 years. years. You know, that's something that always comes to mind. So it's worth repeating.

Yeah, it's a good piece of advice. Yeah. You know, and it's one of the few pieces of advice that he, you know, dispensed to anybody, I would have to say. Because like I said, in seven years, I saw the man twice on the seven. So the fact that you got anything out of him is fantastic. I would go up to the office and I'd watch, you know, the producer's screenings of, of, of edits of the show because I wanted to know what does he like? What does he not like? so that, you know, he would have confidence that I knew what he liked and was able to direct and give him what he wanted. Do you think he'd learned what he knew about, you know,

film making? That story, yeah, yes, exactly. Was that from Roddenberry? Or, you know, did Roddenberry pass that down to him? I'm curious. I don't know, yeah. Well, it's funny with things like that, whatever lessons we learn in life, you know,

we pick it up from somebody, who picked it up from somebody before, And they picked it up for, you know, because the story goes on. And especially in this business, because it's such a, in TV and filmmaking, it's a craft that I think is sort of passed on, you know, cinematographers learn about lighting and about camera and stuff by doing it. Actors, I think, learn, actors learn these techniques by doing it, whether it's in an acting class or film or, you know, on set working or a little of both. You know, you pick these things up. So the more you do it, the more you learn,

the more you do it with people who really know it and love it, you pick up these little, you know, tools and these little slogans and these little sayings and they stick with you. Definitely. Getting back to this episode, I really, back to that mess hall scene with Neelix fighting off the Kazan warrior.

Yes. And then the doctor shows, he crawls between that opening and that bulkhead. And he looks like a human slinky, basically. He does a little thing. And I just started thinking, huh, there's a lot of humor in this episode. And that is really an imprint of who Freaks is as a person. Because he's kind of a goof, you know, when it comes in.

He likes to make, he likes to make people laugh. He likes to entertain people. So I feel that this is sort of the Frick's stamp of his persona on this director. Yeah, there was some funny stuff. It was definitely some funny It wasn't just the actors being funny Or the lines being funny But it was the way that Frick staged it

And shot it I would like to ask him that And I think that's a good question Of that specific moment in this episode Whether or not he came up with that Or was that a doctor suggested thing Because I can almost see Picardo going You know

Jonathan I think it'd be very interesting If I went through this opening And looked like a human slinky Or I looked like a human snake What do you think? And then I think Frank's, you know, yeah, let's give it a shot. You know, so that will be something that I would like to question him about. I love how when Nelix is going back and forth with the Kazon,

and the Kazon shoots at him, and he jumps up and he's like, miss me. He does his little childish little, yeah, and that's at the point where I started really realizing, okay, this may not be reality at this point. It's a little, because it is, it's very suspenseful, it's mysterious, and now you've got these weird elements where, you know, Elix is acting like he's in kindergarten, right?

And then the doctor does that weird thing. And it's just, it's very twilight zoning, you know, at the point for me. It's also funny to me that I noticed when Balana came into Sick Bay before he goes to the mess hall and she talks about these remote projectors that they've installed on different decks and that they've been working on a remote or portable

projection technology because I already sensed like you did that this is not real this is not going to turn out to be reality I didn't remember all the plot but I did feel that way but I thought it's interesting that they're bringing this up because that's going to come to pass they're going to come up with his portable you know holographic admitter that it's interesting it came up in sort of a fantasy episode that the ideas were sort of brought up in this fantasy episode we have have the appearance of the very popular character of Barclay from TNG that everyone loves, played by the very talented Mr. Dwight Schultz. And he says the Voyager. And I don't know why this bothers me so much. I know. You're really. I really, because technically, if you think about it, like,

people will refer to, you know, it's the enterprise, right? It's the, and it's, it should be, it's the Voyager. But I don't know, I guess just the way that it was, it sounds weird because I think the way Paris in that very, you know, early episode, how you turned into camera and it was so dramatic, it's the Voyager. Like that changed everything from me and how I react to this. You only remember my reading. What the way, what I'm hearing you say is that my reading was so unforgettable that you can't ever imagine that said any other way than how I said it. That's what I'm hearing. What I'm saying is that you should have received an Emmy. You should have received an Emmy. You You should have received an ending for a dramatic series for that.

For that line. For that line. Yeah, you were so memorable. I can't get it out of my head. Another thing that bothers me is I, now it's been a couple times that people say, let's get inertial dampers back on line. Like we talked about it in another episode and you hear it in this episode. I thought it was dampeners, D-A-M-P-E-R-S.

I thought it was dampeners the entire time. And now I'm listening to it. It's dampers. I've been adding extra letters into this word. I think you have. This piece of techno babble that I now have been totally beside myself thinking, how did I not know that it was dampers? And why am I thinking it was dampeners the entire time?

I don't know. Damper's. Barclay says to the doctor, he says, you have HDDS, hollow transference, dementia, syndrome. Yes. So this is what I'm going to use when when Bob Picardo starts getting a little older, I'm going to be starting forgetful. I'm going to say, hey, bud, I think you've got HDS and you're like, what is that? Don't you remember from the episode? Projections, hollow transference dementia syndrome, I think. Yeah, it's a thing. It's a real medical. It's a real sci-fi medical

thing. It's a real fake medical thing. Yeah, Reginald Barclay showing up was very cool. I like, even though, of course, it turns out that this, what Barclay is saying is not true. Yeah. I like this idea. What a cool idea. That's one reason I like bought into the story. Like, oh my God, what if the doctor is really the human and that this has all been, we've been watching this story from a different perspective and now we're coming around to see it that it's, they're at Jupiter station. And this whole thing has been a six hour, you know, simulation that he was supposed to run. like why it blew my mind and usually usually I don't like when like there's an episode I think I even Rick said that while I was watching it at one point I'm like this all turns out to be fake

I'm gonna be mad usually that's how I feel but at the end of this one I was like no that was cool that was a cool ride you liked it oh yeah I definitely I think for me it just like this kind of episode, it's so confusing to keep track of everything that it hurts my head sometimes. I just say they're going like, oh, it's not laid out for me like I want. So I was a little uncomfortable watching this episode. But I was very, I was very comfortable and very happy, I'll admit, when Barclay slapped the doctor. I was going to bring that up. I was going to say the exact same thing because it was payback. You didn't get to hit the doctor, but Barclay got to smack him. It was very satisfying.

Really well, yeah. But then the doctor slapped him back. Jacked him back. Yeah. So then it reminded me of some petulant child who always has to have the last word with us, you know? And it's sort of like, you know what? You're the kid. Just shut up and just take it. Take your slap. Take your slap. You know, but this, this was the doctor getting it. And why did he slap him back? I didn't understand that. Other than him sort of like, I've got to get you back. You know, I just, I don't know. I thought that was a little what

I would love to see if I could, I don't know, if you can, you've got pretty much all the scripts, right? I've got a lot of them. Yeah. Can you fish this one out? I'm just curious. I'll try to. Give it a shot and see if you can find the projection script. And see if it, and maybe the fans have, you know, there's scripts out there that I've seen at conventions, fans have collected scripts.

So if anybody can find out and see, did they script it, you can go to the page in projections and see if it's scripted that. Barclay slaps the doctor and then the doctor slaps Barclay I'd be curious about that I'll look myself yeah look it up I mean there's a lot of stuff out there that are just that people have basically transcribed our dialogue but it doesn't have the business in there you know it doesn't have like and then the doctor does that you know that it'd have to be an original script it has to be an original script so if you have the projections original script folks let us know and if we you know hopefully if we find it before you do then we'll let you know hey Garrett have you been traveling this summer Oh my gosh, so much already.

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Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. I thought it was funny when, not funny. It was kind of insulted, actually, when he says, computer, delete Paris. And he deleted me. And then he deleted you, by the way. He did.

Did I delete him before? I'm trying to remember. I feel like I did. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like Paris deleted the doctor, so I feel like that was payback. Yeah, I, I, I, the part where Barclay goes, I'm talking about, about you, about Paris. And he's like, I modeled him after my cousin Frank.

And I thought, boy, they missed out on this. They really should have said, I modeled him after my cousin Nick, Lecarno. You know, so he should have said, but he didn't do that. Yeah, that would have been interesting. That would have been great. That's genius. You're right. See, look, I should be the writer, right?

You really should. I think I'm a born writer. The doctor has given a choice. Yeah. Destroy the ship or you're going to die. You know, the doctor made a comment. He said, why did I program Paris to be so annoying? Yeah.

Like, did the writers really have to do? Like, no. That was just uncalled for completely. I feel like you were being punished for something. I know. That's something that, I don't know what it is, but the writers, like later, as we get into this, I'm going to, I will be telling a story, season four, I think, four or five, where the writers

are, they're so passive-aggressive. They actually write in things to the episode whenever they want to discipline this or say or give us messages. And it's just, it's the most ridiculous thing because you would think as a human being, if you have an issue or you want to tell us something, that you would call us into your office or send us a memo saying, hey, this is what I feel. But no, these writers somehow, I don't know, maybe they were a friend. of us or something that physically, you know.

I think it's natural for the writers eventually to start to kind of mix up the actor, the real life qualities of actors. And, you know, like, I know we do it on shows that I work on as a producer or director. Okay. You know what this person's strengths and weaknesses are and you sort of incorporate those a bit

into the writing of the character. All right. But when it becomes like, you know, why did I program him to be so annoying? I don't know. Why did you write him to be so annoying? Like, like, you know what I mean? Like, if that's what you think, then maybe you wrote it that way.

And maybe you should stop writing those things, like being a jerk and sandrains and saying horrible things about, you know, Native American people. Did you take offense to hearing that when a little bit? A little bit. I got to be honest. A little bit I did. Because I feel like it's really, you know. know, giving the doctor a joke, if you want to call it a joke, it's not really that funny, at the expense of another series regular, when it's just kind of petty attacking, you know,

it's just a nasty sort of thing. I thought, like, why did we have to say that, you know? Yeah, I'm going to write this down. Although I was kind of annoying in this, I didn't have a lot to do in this episode, but I was yelling a lot. Get over here, doctor, get to the picture. But you were doing what you had, this, that scene took place right after we got, thrown into the Delta Quadrant and there's mass chaos, there's injuries and casualties, so you were playing it the way your character should have played it, which is

we need your help because he's the only doctor on there, so I don't think you yelling had anything to do with you being annoying. And he deleted us both. He did. Yeah. That was horrible. It was mean. Yeah, I'm not too happy about that. And then they go into engineering, I think, after

that. Yes, they're in engineering, and that's where the doctor talks about he's having this whole discussion with Janeway and she's like, who are you, we're going to put you in the brig? And he's like, no, I don't think so, blah, blah, blah. And you're going to be, you're going to experience, you're going to meet the caretaker or banjo man. And I love banjo man.

That was kind of cute that, that Brennan put that in there. So, you know, there's a decent amount of humor in this writing, I felt. Yeah, I thought it was very well, even though I might be personally insulted by some of the things that Paris did and had to do and was said about Paris. I really like this episode. I thought it was well written, well directed. Bob did a great job. Dwight did a great job.

Kest shows up, but she doesn't have any point of ears on. It's just Jennifer Lean's regular ears. She's humans. Yeah, and this idea that she is Zimmerman's wife in real life was kind of crazy. It also made me slightly uncomfortable because Jennifer Lean, when she was on our show, was like 12 years old, and Poppacardo was like 150. But it was a little, it's a little, the whole doctor cast thing to me is like, it's cute if it's a, it's a kind of a crush from a distance, you know, but I don't know, this episode, like making her his wife, she's too young. She could have been his, she could have been his daughter. His daughter. Quite easily, right? Let's, and let's get the, let's get those ages right. I'm going to say that the doc, he's 15 years older than me, Robert Picardo. So, uh, that would have put him at roughly.

40 years old when we were filming this 40 years. And she was 20. And she was 20 at this time probably, yeah. So it's a little creepy. She gave him a big kiss. And I was like, oh, Jennifer is too young. She's too young to be kissing this guy who could be your dad. You're right?

You're right. Especially at that age, it's one thing, a big age difference. But I guess what I'm saying isn't just the big age difference. It's the fact that how young she was, at the time and her character was supposed to be like two years old or something right

so right I mean she was it's even yeah Jennifer was young the character's very young and innocent there's just something kind of creepy about I think what keeps it from the from going into this

100% creep zone is the fact that Jennifer's voice is so mature yeah she seems like an old soul she has a really really oh you know just a resonant full but isn't that what pet

files always say she seems so mature. No, I'm kidding. I'm going to bring up, I'm going to bring up, there's an Indonesian rapper named Rich Brian, and he kind of hit the scene where when he was 16 years old, he filmed his own music video, and they showed this video to these American rappers, like famous rappers, and they were blown away because he looked very young, very 16, but his voice. is 100% man it's mature it's low and and the way that he is portraying himself in his music video because most rappers let's face it they're gonna wear rapper type of

they'll have the chains they'll look more they'll look more like flavor flave or mr. T from the A team as opposed to just somebody just wearing random regular clothing I like the A team reference with Dwight Schultz in the there you go you like that I'm pulling it around buddy yeah yeah yeah So there's a video. That song is called Dat Stick, S-T-I-C-K. And I highly encourage you and everyone else to check this out. This guy is unbelievable.

He's wearing a buttoned-up like I-Zodg polo shirt. He has a fanny pack on. It's so atypical from what a rapper would wear. But very, very, very impressive. And you should watch the YouTube video of the rappers watching him because they are just like, oh, my God, this guy is amazing. And so I really think that kept it out of the creep zone. Man, for some reason for me, like the doctor kissing Kess or Kess kissing the doctor

is almost like Patrick Stewart kissing Wesley Crusher's best friend, some girl. Like, are you not bothered by Neelix kissing Kask? Neelix, the character of Neelix played by Ethan, Ethan Phillips is older than Bob Picardo, right? Yeah, something about it being an alien. That doesn't bother you? Something about it being an alien who's kind of ageless to. me. Like, I can't tell if Neelix is, you know, 20 years old, like a child. Sometimes he seems very childlike, you know, even though he's been through. He seems like a young man to me.

Yeah. Behind all of that, you know. Okay. Even though I know Ethan Phillips in real life is older, but something about the character, just the story of saying, this young girl is attached to this youngish kind of spirit, whereas I feel. I felt like with Bob, he's in a human form and certainly doesn't feel young to me, if anything, you know. Right. He felt his age. I don't know. I mean, it wasn't, like I said, to me, it didn't creep me out that much.

I mean, that's such a common pairing that we see in our society now. Rich, bald, older guy with a young, you know, trophy wife. That's almost commonplace, right? I guess, like I said, it's just because I knew that Jennifer was really, like, like just turned 20 or something when we started. Yeah. He was a baby. Yeah, of course.

She's a kid. And then they start writing her with all these relationships with grown, you know, middle-aged men. Right. Like, oh, weird. Anyway. I just love that entire, the entire banter between the doctor and Janeway. Yeah, that whole sequence was great. He's like shutting her down.

She's like, excuse me? Like she's really like, like, who is this? And he keeps talking back to her. But the thing is he's not trying to be rude. He's just stating the fact that one part where he says, the entire crew of Voyager will be transported to the array where you will be tortured and probe for medical information.

It would be quite painful, but not paid off. Picardo was great in there. I think Frakes directed, you know, they're basically in one room for a long time, for almost the whole act. And it never felt claustrophobic or boring. You moved the camera, the actors moved around. The performances were funny.

It was great. I thought it was awesome. Chiquotay enters engineering and kind of stops the doctor from phasering the warp core and destroying the ship. You know, you see that scene where he's like, doctor, stop, you know, we're doing this, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now the doctor is like, wait a minute, you're telling me everything that Barclay is telling me now. And so now, who do I believe? And that whole, the minute that Chacote entered, I just started getting flashbacks of watching Arnold Schwarzenegger in Total Recall. I don't know if you remember that film where he's on Mars.

And there's that whole scene where Schwarzenegger is trying to figure out, is he in the dream or is he, is this reality? And then when he sees the one guy that is trying to pull him out, that's playing basically the Barclay or the Trichote character, where he's trying to tell him like, you know, if you do this, your brain is totally going to be, you know, it's going to go to mush if you do this. And then Schwarzenegger notices that one beat of sweat kind of dripping down the face of the guy trying to stop him. this is not you're not part of this simulation you're you know why would you be sweating you're for real and that's when he shoots him right so i kind of got little shades of that when i was watching yeah what else you got there just listening to just referring to her as kess zimmerman was weird that was more weird to me than the doctor kissing her just like kess zimmerman yeah so like huh

okay um but i think this whole thing about her being the wife is just further proof that doctor is in love with Kess. Oh, yeah. Neelix has nothing to worry about Tom Paris. He has more to worry about the doctor than that. Oh, yeah. Right? Well, they even say later on when, because he says as he wakes up in sick bay.

And he says, oh, you're so beautiful. And she says, you thought it was beautiful. And then the real Kess says at the very end, let's just let this be our secret. Because Neelix is very jealous. And I thought, that's creepy that she's like saying, let's have a secret now. I don't know. Yeah, it is creepy. It is creepy.

And also, I wonder, there's parts in this episode where the doctor gets angry. And I'm wondering, is his computer, is his program constantly learning and he's now experiencing emotions like that? I mean, because wouldn't he just be, you know, wouldn't he, wouldn't his delivery be very monotone and wouldn't, wouldn't it not be infused with all this emotion? Like, I don't know. I mean, it wouldn't it just. Well, that's what I loved about this episode overall was the fact that that, and to me, it speaks

to what I think the theme of the episode is, which is about sort of this kind of miracle that the doctor is able to grow and evolve and discover real human experiences, pain, pleasure, love, feelings, anxiety, stress, all the things that he experiences. Yeah, I think you're right. I think, you know, from a purely technological standpoint, maybe he wouldn't have all that, But that's the ultimate question is like autonomous sort of artificial intelligence learning and then becoming human in a way, you know, being able to reflect and learn and grow and have memory and experience and yeah. Can you clarify on that? Because I had trouble with the underlying message because if you're talking about the underlying message is him experiencing these kind of this growth, that's really the message for an AI. you know what is the message for humanity you know in terms of like how can we be better well i think that the theme to me is what is my purpose who am i you know who am i meant to be and i feel like in

the story when he was faced with mortality when the doctor was faced with a human mortality that he was able to sort of experience and ask these questions in a way that you you know and i can relate to that i think you know often when people are faced with a huge crisis in your life, you sort of look, you're able to step back instead of just plowing ahead the way you always do things and look at like, well, what is my purpose? Like, how did I get here and where do I want to go intentionally? And I think that was the experience for the doctor is he was faced with mortality. Normally he wouldn't be. Normally he's just a holographic doctor. He's a program. But he was able to experience life beyond just being a program. He was able to experience pain

and feelings and mortality literally do or die and that was able to kind of shed some light for him on who he really is okay that's the theme that's the theme to me all right that that helps me a little bit more to get a little grasp of this this episode and what the theme is because now i can extrapolate what you just said yeah and and it can correlate what's happening now because the crisis is not our mortality. Well, it kind of is when it comes to the pandemic, but the crisis is the pandemic that we're going through. Like, everybody is going through this same, like never before in history except for maybe the Great Depression, have we, if we had this disruption in our daily lives, right, where everyone's told, okay, stay home for months. And I don't do anything for months.

That's never happened before. As long as you and I have been alive, nobody's ever told us, like, hey, like, when we didn't, when we were in sixth or seventh grade, they didn't say, like, oh, guess what? School's completely canceled. And we don't know. know when it's going to go back in session. This is, these are times that are unherald. I mean, we've never, ever experienced this before. You know, this is a new territory. And it's scary.

And you do feel mortal. You feel, you feel vulnerable. You feel that, you know, yes. And I think when those things happen, you sort of are able to kind of get a vision or get your priorities in place or kind of reset the answers to those questions of who are you really? Who are you? but what do you stand for and what do you what do you care about what matters and that's that's what

that's the lesson i got from this okay yeah i like that yeah and i i guess the only other note i really have here regarding this episode is that um the doctor does grab his head in pain just like i did in parallax when i was doing the old shat and arrest sort of ah oh and so the doctor too is like he's got his hand on his head too here so yeah It's okay. It's a classic move. It's a classic move. We're not going to criticize it. It's right out of the actor. It's right out of the chapter. It's right out of the Shatner manual of acting. We've all taken a page out of that book. Do you have any of the notes about this episode? No. No. Okay. All right. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. Okay. On a scale of one to ten, of ten being the most favorite, where are you going to throw this episode? I'm just curious. Up there. I'd put it up there. Would you give it an eight? Eight or nine, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I love this episode. Wow.

Okay. I'm going to give it a six. I'm not going to better than most, but it's not something that's like, yeah, I'm like, whoa. But I also understand that coming from a directorial viewpoint, you know, viewpoint, you can see certain things where you're, you were drawn in to this story. Yes, for sure. And you were invested compared to some of the other episodes where you're like, oh, my God, really? Is this what you, how you're going to end season one? I was invested.

Let's just go back to what we were talking about recently about putting the emotional values on series regulars, not on guest stars, not on characters we've never met before or we'll never meet again. And, you know, aliens and, you know, the aliens should exist to teach our series regulars lessons about life. You know, that's from a storytelling point of view. we should meet aliens because we need to learn something about ourselves and about who we are. So that's what I loved about this episode is that the plot, everything that happened, happened to enrich a character that we're invested in already and that we're going to continue to be invested in.

And to me, it really enriched that character. It enriched the world that all of our characters exist in. It allowed caked and Boulana and, you know, Janeway and Boulana and all of us to kind of play our characters and add to the story rather than leaning into guest stars or aliens or things like that. Well said. I like that. Okay. Well, thank you to all of our listeners, to the Delta Flyers, for tuning into our discussion and analysis of the episode projections. stay tuned next week when Robbie and I will deep dive into the episode Elogium

Illusium I just like that name Illusium I just like to say it with that accent Illusium Illusium Now we're standing like the Vidians Matura

Elogium with that exaggerated theatrical British accent So yes So next week we will be covering Elogium All right guys Live Long and Prosper

See you next week.