The Delta Flyers - Rejoined

Episode Date: July 1, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Rejoined, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry FarrellRejoined: A Trill scientist, whose host once was married to Dax's previous host, arrives on Deep Space Nine; the former lovers must decide if they want to resume their relationship and defy the laws of Trill society.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano,  Randy Hawke, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Keir Newton, Mariette Karr, Jeff Allen, & Tamara EvansAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Cassie Brandt, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Klee Wiggins, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary,  Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Lindsay Bundy, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Joshua Shields, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Shawn Battershall, Natalie Swain, Brian Heckathorne, & Mark JohnsonThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers' Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek actors, Garrett Wong, and Duncan McNeil. Or Robert Duncan McNeil. Do you know, I was, I was Duncan, I was Duncan McNeil for a while. He was, he was. Technically, that was my union name for it. So you're fine.

Because of the other Robert McNeil. Well, it wasn't like I said, you know, George McNeil. That would have been like, oh, my God, what planet is she on? Would you like me to say it again? Or do you want to be done? No, I think it's awesome. I think it's funny. Yeah.

And myself, Terry Farrell. Yay, Terry. Hey, and Duncan Farrell. And Duncan Farrell. Or Lee Farrell, which would be my middle name. You know, I'm so used to saying Robbie. So if we use Duncan, I'm going to have to call you Dunkie. Yes, he's too.

Dunkie. Dunkie. Okay. He's the donut guy. He's the donut guy. For the complete and absolutely stupendous and bonkers version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Hello, hello.

Hello. Hey. It is summer here. I know I mentioned that when we all logged on, but I am in such a summery mood right now. Yeah. I just want to go swim and play in the woods. Well, you just said you've biked 11 miles,

which I don't think I've ever biked 11 miles in my life. So I'm very impressed. Seriously? Yeah, I bet you have. Not in one out of me. Oh, my gosh. I used to enter every, you know, when they do those fundraisers for anything

and you can walk or ride your bike. Yes, yes. Yeah, I would ride my bike. And many times it was like 20 miles. Oh, my God. I rode my bike everywhere. How long does it to ride 24 miles? How long is that?

How long is that? Not that long? No, a couple hours. Yeah, a couple hours. A couple hours. Oh, my God. No, I had my thought at the pool when I was a teeny bopper teenager. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They would tease me that I had frog legs. but that's because I wrote my bike everywhere. Me too. I rode my bike everywhere. Everywhere. The pool was miles from our house and we lived lots of hills. So it was downhill on the way there, uphill on the way back. Can you explain the connection between them making fun of you having frog legs and you biking?

What does a frog have to do with biking? I don't understand that. Big thighs. And if you ride your bike a lot, your thighs get very developed. They do. Yes. I mean, it wasn't like I had skinny cat. I mean, my legs looked like they went together.

Right. But I did get teased. I don't mean to show off, but I did do fundraisers too. And I did the California AIDS ride back in the early 2000s, mid-2000s. L.A. to San Francisco to L.A. to San Francisco to L.A. Oh, I wanted to do that. Yes. I wanted to do that so bad.

But during the training, a car hit my arm going up a hill and I fell over and I thought I can't go on the one. I can't go, and if that is so scary to me, but cars going by, it's crazy miles an hour. Yeah, you do feel very vulnerable out there on the road on a long ride like that. Yeah. Well, how long do you sleep, obviously, right? So how long does it take total? We took six days to do it, which you don't need six days, but the longest day was up in, I forget where we were near King County, New York, like upper central California.

You did 107 miles one day. Wow. That's the longest day I've ever spent on a bike, 107 miles. That was a long day. That's a day you appreciate the gears of your bike. Yes. And a nice seat. Yes.

And a nice seat, exactly. That's no joke. This was pre-voyager when you did this. This was post-voyager. It was some time in the mid-2000s. Yeah, it was a great time. I met some amazing people and the camping and they had, you know, entertainment. or movie screenings out by the campground every night.

It was really a great bonding. You did this solo? You didn't have any friends that you did this with. That's very impressive. I had trained with a group in L.A. called Shifting Gears, which was a bike group that started from training for the AIDS ride. Yeah. And I started riding with them once a week.

And some of those people in Shifting Gears were on the ride. But, yeah, I kind of went solo. It was great. That's cool, though. That's like going to a job where you don't know. know anybody. Most of the time you don't know anybody, except for the casting director and maybe you got to meet the director before. Now it must be even weirder. When I was going to do it was 95. Really? Yeah. Is it still happening? So I was in deep space. Oh, right. I was in deep space.

You were. You were literally in deep space. Yeah. Is that ride still happening currently? I don't know. I don't know. I'm sure the need is there. to, you know, raise money for AIDS research and support that need. Continued. I don't know if that organization is still around, but it was a great time. But the fact that Terry, that you also know of this ride and you planned on doing it. Oh, I registered in everything. I registered in everything, and I was doing spinning classes to get my boyfriend at the time and I would do two in a row.

Two spinning classes in a row. It was in an effort to get in shape to do the hills. So you can't just start from nothing on hills. You've got to build your muscles and weight training. So we were in it, but it just freaked me out. Yeah, and it was a very steep hill, in all fairness. It wasn't. It was, once you get hit with your momentum, you're walking the rest of the way up.

You can't start from a dead stop from some of these hills. So can you clarify? You said you were training and a car hit. hit what part of the car hit you from behind the side mirror it was the uh side mirror on my arm oh the oh they didn't slow down or stop they probably had no idea they just weren't no idea okay so if they were listening to music they definitely wouldn't have known yeah but it was the passenger mirror that hit your arm when they drove past you is that correct yes and you and you and you crashed when you got hit by i fell flat over i mean i just felled into the ditch or the side of the road you're so lucky

you were alive, of all things, if it, you know, oh, my God. I guess the worst that would have happened would be a broken arm, but, um. You had a helmet on, obviously, right? Yes, and knee pads and elbow pads. Yeah, the whole, I love it. Yeah, because I was on deep space nine. I really couldn't afford to get hurt or killed. You're in deep space.

Yes, I was in deep space. I think that was another reason that I was like, okay, that's a sign. I shouldn't be doing this. Yeah, I shouldn't be doing it. Did you tell, you were training for this? Or do they even know? Oh, God, I don't even remember. I don't remember. I don't remember ever keeping secrets like that. I just remember production in my adult age. Right. But, but Rob, you remember, they frowned

on us doing physical activity sports. They were afraid we were going to get injured. It's in our contracts. It's in the contract. It's about insurance. Oh, that's what it was. Yeah. Yeah, it's not about them just saying, don't do that. Yeah. I'm worried. You know, Tim Russ and Ethan Phillips used to hang gliding? Yeah, they, they hang gliding together. And I was like, you guys, that's the most dangerous activity you could pick. I like a good dangerous activity. Oh, besides squirrel jumping, those squirrel suits.

Oh, my word. I can't picture those two doing it. They did it for a long time. And then I think Tim had a scary encounter one time. And they both decided not to do it anymore. That was the end of that. Hedging their bets. Yeah.

Yeah. I try not to think about that. with plane flights because I've been on so many. Right. There's just that time where you're like, don't think about how many times you've been in the air. No, don't think about it. And isn't it weird to look, I remember,

I was thinking on this trip, gosh, I remember flying to Mexico, my first flight, 15, to be a foreign exchange student and thinking, gosh, I can't believe I'm finally on an airplane and how great it was. And I was so mesmerized by the clouds and thinking, I can't believe some of these. people are on planes all the time. All the time, yeah. Wow, they're so lucky. And now we do it like

it's nothing. Yeah. It is pretty safe, though, flying. They say statistically. Yeah. Well, it was when we had all our air traffic controller. It's changed a little bit recently. All right, we have some birthdays to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. Let's start off, first of all, saying happy birthday, June 30th, Robert Allen Stifler. Robert Allen Stifler, happy birthday. Raise the house for Robert Allen Stifler. Woo-hoo. Happy birthday.

Robert, happy, happy birthday on June 30th. We have Jessica B. July 1st. Happy birthday, Jessica B. Happy birthday, Jessica. Happy birthday, Jessica B. And we've also got Andrea Wilson on July 2nd. Happy birthday, Andrea. Happy birthday, Andrea.

Happy birthday, Andrea. Now it's time for our poetry synopsis. Let's hear that limerick, Robbie McNeil, or Duncan McNeil. Yes, here we go. My poetry synopsis for Rejoined. Dax is faced with a situation that's quite tough and confronts some really emotional stuff. Who shows up but her ex-wife?

Trills have a complicated life, and sometimes love just isn't enough. Good job. There you go. I like it. Very good. I like that a lot. Thank you. I have a new perspective watching this again.

Yes, I bet you do. I can't wait to hear. We cannot wait to hear your thoughts on this. We're very excited. I am too. Okay, haiku time. Here we go. My haiku for rejoined.

Trill, sigh team, arrive. dax's wife is among them love once strong now gone not meaning to love but that she's gone yeah yeah wow this is a tragic episode it really is it's like sad it is sad teleplay by ronald d more and rene ashivaria story by guys yes dream team dream team story by rnene ashivore Varea, directed by Avery Brooks guest starring Susanna Thompson as Lanara Khan. In addition to this episode, Susanna has portrayed three other characters in the Star Trek universe, most notably that of the Boar Queen in the Star Trek Voyager episode's Dark Frontier, Unimatrix Zero, and Unimatrix Zero Part 2.

She has also played two characters in Star Trek The Next Generation. I did not put that together. You didn't realize she was our board queen? We saw Susanna Thompson in makeup. I never saw her out of makeup for the Borg Queen. She's such a talented actress. Absolutely. She's great.

Such a sweet person. Yeah. I was very lucky. But Robbie's right. We never saw her without Borg. Of course not. We didn't know what she looked like until now. Until watching this episode, we know what she looks like.

We also have Tim Ryan as Bazal Oetner. That is the brother of Lenara Khan. We have James Noah as Hannah Pren, another trill. And James also portrayed Rizlon in the Star Trek Voyager third season episode Displaced. And of course, we have good old Kenneth Marshall as Michael Eddington. And those are our guest stars. There we go. What do you remember about Susanna Thompson?

Actually, what I remember is I asked if I could come in just to see how the casting process was. Oh, wow. And I read with them, and that was great. But then there was one actress that said, she shall remain nameless. I've always wanted to kiss you. And I only did it that one day. And I thought, when she walked out, I said,

you cannot hire her. That just cannot. And they were like, Terry, do not worry. That's not what we're looking for anyway. Yeah. So, yeah, it was. Did you work with her before then? No, but I knew who she was.

I mean, you know, when you're on the audition circuit, you see a lot of people. Yeah, maybe the same age, but blonde hair. You know, so you're in it, either in it with the same age range or the same physicality. Yeah, there's a professionalism about, you know, romantic stories and actors. Like, there's a professional kind of boundary. And to say that on a personal level in a professional situation, I don't care whether it's two women or a man saying that about a woman or a woman saying that about a man. It just kind of all of a sudden blurs that professional boundary about the story that we're telling and the characters we're playing and starts making it personal.

And then it's not safe. Yeah. So there's a Me Too moment and it's about a woman and a woman. So it happens no matter what. And I'm sure she was trying to be cute and over. open, but clearly if you're auditioning for it, the issue isn't whether, you wouldn't be auditioning for it if the kiss was an issue for you. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? That actor said that in the public, in the audition room, or aside to you afterwards? Yes. Oh, in front of everybody then. Yes. They all heard it. Oh, yeah.

And they were all taken aback by that comment clearly, right? Well, it just wasn't professional. Right. It wasn't, it, I don't think that person would have gotten. gotten it anyway. But that doesn't matter. Saying that, just it was a shoe and she wasn't. Did you call that person out when they said that in the room? Or was it just later? Oh, no, you just let it lay there. It's not my place to say anything to an adult about professional or adult behavior. That's true. And I'm surprised that you were in the auditions

because I don't ever remember that happening on Voyager. Well, I think what happened to me probably was a good reason not to have the actors come in. But I know I asked because I was curious, the process and all of that. And Avery directing probably made you feel a little more comfortable to be a part of that prep. I'm not afraid to ask. Yeah. The worst they can say is no.

Yeah. So that was the only time. But I don't just ask willy-nilly. That felt like I have a lot of work to do with that person. And maybe this would be also a chemistry casting, you know, because you can kind of feel people that are, oh, they just are not great together. Yeah. Right. I think that's really important to do chemistry reads with those kinds of storylines so that the actors feel comfortable.

You can sense that in the room. We did that on Resident Alien a couple of times. We had chemistry reads with recurring characters to make sure that it was going to work. It's important. The actor felt comfortable. Yeah, and this is a groundbreaking show. This show is really important. So if we didn't have chemistry, I mean, and the truth is, if you're both all in, it shouldn't be a problem.

Yeah, yeah. But I didn't read with her. I just met her on the set. Okay. But I thought she was kind. And I don't know that if I'd met her, I might have. It's so many years now, but she was familiar to me. And we just hit it off right away.

That's great. And we both wanted to hit it off right away, right? Yeah. So we wanted the mutual, let's work together, great kind of vibe without having to say that. Yeah. Terry, on the interwebs, it says that Avery called both of you in early to work together, Susanna and you. Is that correct that he had a... I'm sure he wouldn't make that up.

I'm sure he did. I just don't really recall. Don't remember it. Not really. I mean, it might have just been we came in. an hour or two earlier than I'd call just to say, hey, say hello. You mentioned that it was a groundbreaking episode before we get into the story. Like, how was that?

Because it was groundbreaking. This is the mid-90s, I think there was a couple of TV shows that had tiptoed into this kind of same-sex area, but not really, not much. It's not like it is now. I'll tell you it was Ellen, comedy. Yeah. And my God, I see her in my head. People say I look like, oh, Brook Shields, also comedy.

What did she do? Brooks Shields, was that on a half hour show? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't remember the name of it, but I think this all happened within the same time frame. A few years, yeah. but it was like um suddenly susan suddenly susan is that that yeah yes and but they made it silly right and when they make two women kissing silly like that or titillating because the men on the set were there were men on the set that were like waiting for the kiss they were equally inappropriately

immature but but that's more about titillating men not addressing i love who i love and I don't care what sex they are. I love them. Yeah. That's a much different story. And that's our story. Yeah. Yeah.

The writers of all harping on that that this was a love story and not a lesbian story, not a same-sex story at all. No, not one character mentioned that there was an issue because we were both women. No, nobody mentioned that. Because it wasn't an issue. We're in the future in space. Who cares? So that is huge. And that is my, this is my dream episode to do on Star Trek.

Because, you know, the first kiss of Bill and O'Hora, or I shouldn't say that, Kirk and O'Hara. I should use either both their real names or both their, you know what I'm saying. Sorry. But, and there were other things like that, too, that the original series hit the nail on the head with. And it feels like this episode truly made me a part of the legacy of Star Trek. Yeah, yes. Of what we love about it and the higher ideals and morals and values that it holds for those of us who love and respect other humans. Yeah.

Those examples you gave of Ellen and the Brooks Shields show, did those predate this episode or this episode came before those two examples that you know what I do not remember you we'd have to look up air dates because I do know remember but it was around this there was something in the zeitgeist that was like we've got to start telling these kind of stories like you can feel it yeah and now it's like what's a what's a series without having a gay couple or just mixed race transgender it's being addressed in almost every series that's happening you're seeing it being dealt with in a real way like this is just life not look at this i love i love that they take the trill mythology of this kind of the simbant that's kind

of the soul of the host and the soul is not male or female or the soul is just the soul and that the trills is a perfect way to tell a story like this he could not be more engineered to be the perfect way to try to explain we're a huge we're a we're a we're a soul inside of a body that might the body might be male it might be female it might be whatever this soul gets to choose who we love and how we identify and i think that's but it doesn't change who jadzia loves and how she identifies sexually so there's a misnomer there her sexual preference and drive comes from her and the symbion respects that about the humanoid body that it's in. Yeah.

So even more so. Yeah. But it gets complicated because she gets very lost in some old feelings. Yeah. So I think, well, I should probably wait till we've watched it to say. Until we get there. Yeah. Yeah.

Otherwise we'll be done in 20 minutes. Yes. And nice to see you. I think it's great to talk about some of these issues up front before we get into it because this is a really important episode, very different, very special. And it was preempted in the time. What? When it aired on the East Coast, when affiliates realized what the show was about, it was

slowly and surely preempted by certain affiliates across the board. And they got a lot of mail and phone calls about. parents and people that were upset that there wasn't a disclaimer. A disclaimer. Wow. A disclaimer. It's crazy. It's crazy because now it's just taking for granted. Yes, it's very every day and, you know, things are much more inclusive. Not that they couldn't be better. I do want to say that. Right. We could continue to grow and be better. Well, you know, originally the con Symbient was written originally as a male. And it was Ron Moore who said, we're going to switch this to a female character. So Ron, I love Ron Moore. Ron did the right move there, for sure.

Yeah. Forward thinking man. Yep. Very smart. All right. So let's get into the episode. Our first scene is in Quarks and we see some hands in the foreground. We see Quark and Bashir looking at the hands. I love this whole running thing about the magic, but cork is just mesmerized. We realize it's Dax, unveils an egg out of nowhere, and cork is just mesmerized. I love Armin's performance in this. He's like a kid. Right? Out of my mouth. Yes, out of your mouth. You pulled the egg out. But I was just talking a moment before. How did you do that? I know. It's magic. I'm not going to tell you. They said that both Sid and Terry had to learn the actual magic tricks to be performed on camera. That's very cool. Yes, we did. I don't remember, did it say who came back to teach us? Was it

the same gentleman who? It didn't. Oh, from that prior episode where their magic was involved? Yeah, probably not. He probably would have been too expensive. He would. Maybe, maybe. Still, very impressive. Very impressive magic. You did a great job. so good that Armand Shimmerman was mesmerized by him. I loved him in this scene. He was trying to guess how she did it. He guesses that she learned it from Tobin, which I thought was a nice detail. So already kind of setting up the connection to these past hosts, you know, even in the scene that you don't really connect it to the story necessarily, but just subconsciously we're starting to talk about Dax's the influence that these past hosts had. So she's learned this

magic. I thought that was really smart writing. Yeah, very smart. And then she gets a call from Cisco. He wants to see her. And she has one more trick, a little latinum in the ear. My grandfather used to do that with quarters and things. He would always pull a piece of change out of my ear. And I was mesmerized. You were Armin back then. I was. It was amazing. I don't know how he did it. And then there's a waiter that's like out of the side of the frame, another Ferengi.

I don't know which actor it was, but it was a background actor. Broik or someone, right? Broek or someone, leans into his earlobe, like to see if he can find more. Very funny. Very cute. Yes. We jump into the captain's office. It's a weird saying captain now because he's captain.

He's no longer commander. Yeah. I thought it was weird calling him commander because he has such a presence. It was like diminished to call him a commander. Yes. Right from the beginning, it felt diminished. Yes. It's a meeting.

It's a meeting between Dax and Cisco. And he has to give her the news that this science team is coming from Trill and that one of the members happens to be Dr. Lenara Khan. And Cisco's concerned because he knows the history and he's kind of like giving Dax, the opportunity to get away from this, an option to sort of leave and take a vacation or whatever, right? Yep. But Dax is okay with it.

Dax is like, nope, thanks for the option, but I'll handle it. I'll be fine. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Any time, old man, Cisco says, another, another reference to these past lives. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think Dax should have slept on it.

I think you should have, too. But then we wouldn't have had an episode. True. True. I also thought when Dax first walks in his office, I thought he was mad at you. He seemed very serious. Like he was like, oh, what did she do? She's in trouble. But it wasn't. But you could tell I knew I didn't do anything wrong. Yes. Yeah, you're like, why it's so serious? Oh, Lanara. Oh. Homanah. I can't wait to see what body she's in this time. Exactly. Wait, I have a question. Yeah. So people call you Dax. Now, you're Jadzia, first name, Jadzea, last name, Dax, Dax. But they refer to you as Dax, Dax, Dax. But when Lenora comes, you refer to her, her name is Lonara Khan, I think, right? So is her symbionant. Con? Yes. That's right. But people don't call her Kahn. They call her Linar. Who knows? Maybe she wants to be called that. Here's the thing, too. My scripts always. said Dax. They never said Jetsia.

Ever. The only time it became super specific is once Niki started playing on... Yeah, they would have to. Esri Dax. Esri Dax. Yeah.

So, yeah, then people are like, yeah, but you're Judziah. And I'm like, sorry, I played Dax for six years. So to me, I'm Dax. It's just a weird... Jetsia is, okay, but she goes by Dax.

I also wish that they read... renamed the symbiant for Lenora because they use Khan, which is such a, that's Ricardo Montaubon from the original series. So it's such a attached name that it has so much behind that name. And to reuse that in the world of sci-fi, you can make up any damn name you want. So they could have picked anything other than Khan. So I thought that was a bit of a disservice for the viewers in a way. Lenara Jacks.

And then it could have been Jackson Dax. or if it was lanara you guys aren't in charge of names how about this one what if it was dr lanara apple then it would be apple dax like apple jacks oh apple jacks oh i like that that's good yeah all right moving on we go to the airlock dax is already there kieran wharf arrived the airlock opens up and the trill team arrives uh pryn uh is the first one out he introduces himself dr hinar Pren of the Trill Science Ministry, a bit awkward because the team comes out and there's Lanara, loaded moments between them. Don't they shake hands?

Don't you guys shake hands? Yes, and it was awkward. Very awkward. Because we were both looking at each other's face. And then we searched for each other's hand. Yeah, there was a little. I see, I noticed that. Where's your hand?

But weirdly, I thought, I'm sure Avery kept it because it works because we're both a little nervous. So it's perfect. I like it. Kira's, you know, she picks up on this energy after they head off to their quarters. Worf takes them off, the whole team off to their quarters. Kira says, do you know that woman? And Dax's response, yes, I know her.

She used to be my wife. Great. For Robbie and I, we're like, what, what? I like that. I know her. Oh, I know her. Oh, I know her. Yeah, we go to Quarks' neck.

Basically, this is a scene where Quark, Bashir, and Kira go through the entire genealogy of this trill. There's so many names in there. Like, it's all the names of Dax's past hosts. Basically, Tyraeus was married to Nalani, and that is the relationship. That's why they had the name Khan. Because it was Nelani Khan. They already had her, Nelani's name. We'd already said it at source.

point. Oh, that makes sense. Because Sidd's character played Tobin. Yes. And so there was some referenced that there has been a reference before. That's probably why. I thought this was funny because they all played certain characters. So it was kind of interesting. They didn't have the conversation like, yeah, you remember because you played. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, that would have been nice to include. Oh, you remember when, yeah, when Cisco was this one, the musician or whatever. Yeah. That would have been fun to include. It's, it's interesting that there's no, Odo is in this episode, but he's only in the background. He doesn't have any lines. And I felt like this would have been a good scene with Odo and Kira as opposed to Cork and Kira. Like, it would have worked, it would have worked well for me to see Odo.

Because that relationship between Odo and Kira, right? So they have that going on. Well, as they leave, Bashir starts explaining to Kira that it's taboo for exes to reconnect. And he explains it's called reassociation. So we learned about that. And it is taboo. If you do it, you reassociate, you can be exiled from Trill. Which is tough rules. Yes.

And what's the worst thing about being exiled? Guess what? The symbion does not live on because it dies with that host. And that's against everything that everyone from Trill. believes in. Yeah. And I'm the eighth lifetime to have Dax. Mm-hmm.

That's right. So, hmm. A lot of responsibility for that soul. Yes. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, that's, Kira, the reason Bashir says this is because Kira says, I don't understand why Dax and Linar can't just pick up where they left off.

Yeah. Just to give a little information. We're because a lot of people could think that, well, what's the big deal? Mm-hmm. So it's a, it is a big deal. It is a big deal. And this whole scene is kind of, it's very well done, very efficiently done to kind of encapsulate all of the rules of the game here for the audience, you know. Yes.

It'd be like if you could go back to each lover you've had to write a wrong, what would your life be like? You can't. It's too late. You're moving on. Yes, and it would really complicate your current life. Sure would. Yeah. Well, we go to Dax's quarters next.

She's brushing her hair, the doorbell rings, and it's Cisco. He's come to pick her up for this reception party. They're having a welcome party for the Trill Science team. And he says, again, you know, you don't have to go. But Dax says, no, I have to get used to being around her. It's fine. I'm fine. And as she's saying how fine she is, she puts her com badge on, but it is upside down.

Your timing, your comic timing of that was really good. Thank you. And he reaches over and turns it. Yes. Well, what was funny to me is that, you know, when we, on Voyager, we always would mess around with our com badges and put them on the wrong way, but we never filmed it that way. So to see that happening in the episode, it felt like behind the scene. It was like behind the scenes, yeah.

Yeah. That's sweet. He fixes it and then there's a nice kind of film transition on back on the Com badge as now Dax starts walking and it reveals, it widens to reveal that we're in the wardroom for the party. So I thought that was well done by Avery, that little transition, visual transition. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I like being directed by actors because more often not, they will give you. something real to do as behavior like brushing my hair. I don't know that it said brushing, but I'm just saying as an example, Avery would be, is the kind of director that wants to give you things to do that makes sense because business is so real and so important. And there's so many scenes that start like in an abrupt kind of a way where there's no kind of moment to take in that you're in a real space. Yeah. So you're right.

Business is very important to set the scene. I took a look at the original script. It says, scene eight in Dax's quarters, Dax is fixing her hair in a mirror while wearing black pants and a black t-shirt. Her dress uniform is nearby, and she's running late, the door trip. I bet you, Avery had them get a brush for me. Oh, definitely. He's like, I don't like the fixing.

Let's bring a brush in, yeah. What's fixing? What do you do to? Yeah. I can't touch it. Into the next scene, it just says inside the ward room, a full reception is happening. And it doesn't say in the next scene that that transition off the con badge as Dax reveals the room. So that was all Avery coming up.

That's cool. Terry, it's interesting. You said, you can't touch it, which is so true. Our hair was so perfectly quaffed, all of our ears. No, no one in Star Trek ever runs their fingers to another character's hair, ever. No, I'm sure things are more real now when you watch, like, just, I'm watching Ozark again. I just needed to have a rewatch and watching Bateman. Oh, yes.

Jason Bateman? Jason Bateman? Jason. Thank you. Jason Bateman in distress, touching his face and rubbing his face. I'm like, he doesn't have makeup on. No. So a lot of times when you see an actor, a place.

makeup, it's just on top of makeup that's already there. Nowadays, they can have things that are more real, but, wow, that's why I was holding the ponytail as I was brushing it, so I wouldn't mess with the clip in the back. It's just things you have to really be careful of. Or else that three-quarter fall would have pulled right out probably, right? Oh, well, it would have hurt. Yes, that would have been painful. I wonder if on Star Trek, the human actors got more

makeup, like the level of makeup was a little higher to balance with all the prosthetics so that the prosthetics didn't look as fakey makeup. You know what I mean? Because they put a lot of makeup on me and I remember I used to say like, pancake. Why? I don't, I'm a human. I don't really need all this. Lots of base. Why? We were. Well, it evens your tone too and you have to remember it's not just for the prosthetics but it's the lighting too. So the prosthetics need to be lit and they're generally darker than our skin tone. Right. And I'm in scenes with a lot of scenes at this point on with Michael Dorn.

And it was a challenge to light for both of us. So it made me look whiter sometimes. They had to be careful of not putting too much light on me while they were trying to light him. It's amazing now with digital cameras and digital photography, how these modern cameras can help balance those the ranges of skin tones or makeup you know effects colors but but back then it was film and it was yeah yeah to expose film it wasn't a digital thing yeah and if we didn't have base on it it just wouldn't have looked even either yeah okay so we're at the party

and Cisco makes a toast and then lanara says to wharf that a Klingon probably never dreamed of going on a research mission like this. And that's when Kira asked as Worfell, what do Klingon's dream about? Michael Dorn very dramatically says, you know, dark, very scary things you wouldn't want to know and leaves. I love now, Kira goes, you know, I can't tell if he's joking.

Never can tell when he's joking. This is very funny. It was very funny. Very funny. He was very dry. Yes, it seems very dry. I like when Michael does comedy, when Wharf is doing light comedy. I love that.

It's perfect because it's so opposite of how we normally is. Yes, exactly. But we go over to the buffet table at this party, and that's when Lenar and Dax connect and talk. They're getting food. It's awkward. We do see everybody staring at them, and then Lenara suggests, well, maybe we should do something since everybody's looking at us. Dax suggests a food fight.

Lanara says they could throw themselves at each other. So some, you know, different ideas. She started it. Exactly. She's fishing. She is fishing. Yeah. I just thought it was such a funky tableau when they said,

they're all looking at us. And then it cuts back to them. They're all sitting in random poses all staring at you. I thought, wow, that's really. They really are staring. They really are staring. Everybody. But they agree.

We can be adults. We can get through this. And Lanara leaves. Dax goes to get some food, takes another look back. And we've got these loaded looks between the two of them. So clearly it's not going to be as easy as they think. Off to the engine room next where they're all talking about the research plan. There's a lot of science talk in this about how they're going to create this artificial wormhole.

Yeah. Dax says, you know, the computer here can't handle this much calculation. in the engine room, maybe we should go to the main computer, use that. So Lanara and Pren go with her to the bridge. And on the bridge, we realize some of the readings are off. And Pren says, you know what, I'm going to go to my quarters. I'll get the recalibration unit. And maybe that can correct it.

So finally, they're alone. Hmm. Yeah. Bum, bum, bum. Yes, all by themselves. Nobody to stare at them. And Lenara brings up some other problem on the computer and Dax says something like, don't panic, which sort of triggers their old relationship because Lenara says that's what

Tyraeus used to say all the time. So they definitely triggers her. Completely triggers her. They are definitely feeling old feelings. They talk about that some. Lanar admits that she's never had so much trouble separating. herself from her feelings that a past host had. Dax agrees strongly, goes back to her seat.

And then Dax does something from her past, that past relationship. She says, you know, Tarias should have listened to your concerns that day about the test flight of the shuttle. And Dax apologizes, said, I should have listened to you. Very emotional moments here. Dealing with Tarias dying accidentally in the shuttle test. It's such a vivid and specific kind of moment that they're talking about. I thought it was really that made it even more powerful, this kind of sad, tragic loss that they had in their previous relationship.

Like how honest the writing is because that would happen in real life that you meet in front of people. And then when you're finally alone, you can address the elephant in the room for the two of you, whatever that was. Yeah. And I think they did, obviously, I think they did an amazing job of the whole episode. But I just in detail, this was really great. Yeah. Yes. Agreed.

For the audience to understand why there's a dilemma. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also to understand, like, that relationship wasn't, it didn't end with kind of resolve and resolution. It ended accidentally and suddenly. And it was cut short, that love story, you know. There was no goodbye.

Sudden tragic death. Yeah. Yeah, no goodbye. Exactly. No, and probably a fight on the way out the door. Yeah, exactly. The last words. I got to go to work.

Stop worrying. Uh-huh. I think I read somewhere that that relationship, the Nalani, Tarias, Tobias. Tarias. Tarias. The Tarias and Nalani relationship happened, I think, 150 years before this moment or something like that. So it's been a while, you know, over a century since they were together. So just to wrap my mind around this reunion is kind of, it's kind of interesting, you know, or cool.

Also, how about just the power of the symbion that all of these individual humanoid, memories and experiences are fresh for Dax? Exactly. Right at, like within moments of a recall, she's in it. She doesn't have to think. Let me think. I don't remember exactly. It's as if it just happened in a way for Daxx. Yeah.

For Jetsia. Yeah. Well, very emotional moment about that. And then Dax decides to invite Lanara to dinner with some friends. What are you doing? Maybe just by sheer. Yes, you are. Shooting myself in the face.

I loved how you played this because I was like at first, I was like, I was like, I was like, wait, is she a lot right now? Like, she's making this up. Yes, it was very well done. Yeah. I'm so happy you questioned that because there had to be the element of, oh, my God, I'm just off my cuff. Yes. Making it up as a go. No, it was really well done.

It was very subtle, but I was like, yeah, I'm not sure she's telling the truth here. Lenara's like, yeah, you got, it's friends, a friends dinner, sure, I'll come. cut to a promenade, upper level, walk and talk. And this is where Dax basically springs the information on Bershear that he needs to be at this dinner. But she already has plans. And Dax is like, you need to change those plans, please. I'm begging you. I beg you.

So, yeah, 2,200 hours at, that's a late dinner. That's 10 p.m. when you guys are eating, right? I'm asleep at 10. I know. I was thinking that, too. Me too. But we live in the forever dark, right? It doesn't even matter, right?

It doesn't matter. You eat whenever you want. So, yeah. That's funny. Yeah. I will say, I thought this walk-and-talk was awkwardly shot. Okay. It was really tight, so you couldn't see below the, you know, collarbone very much.

And it was just panning back and forth between the two of them with the camera sort of meandering. Yeah, I thought so too. Yeah, I think doing a wide shot of this so you could have intercut the two shots, would have helped just to see them. Or just keep it as a straight walk and talk. Yeah. Just keep it as a two shot. Don't intercut anything.

Just, I mean, it's clear what we're doing. There's no high emotion going on. There's not going to be, it's not a, it's a transitional scene, right? Yeah. Less is more. Less is more. I think so. Well, I don't know.

Would you think that would be okay? I think a two shot, just a straight two shot of them walking side by side would have been better. And actually, because this. is kind of a comedic scene, I feel like typically comedy plays better in wide shots or two shots. And this was so tight that it's sort of the comedy struggled with this shooting style a bit. Yes. Like we were restricted. We were restricted for movement. And it's also super hard to do, you're supposed to walk slow, talk fast. But if you also are tight, you can't, you really can't move. And it feels awkward. It's not natural in your body. I mean, of course, it's your job,

but there's some things just are what they are. Yeah. Awkward. Yeah. Well, we are now in Corks Cafe. Dinner is happening. And guess what? It's the third wheel. Odd man out. Odd Bashir out. they are reminiscing talking about all the experiences they shared as a couple and Bashir's just back in the background. He's rolling his eyes. He's not exactly being subtle. No, he's not. But I will use this opening shot, the three shot with the two of you, Dax and Lanara, in the

foreground, just energized in talking and Bashir in the middle sitting there with his head and his hands bored out of his mind. And it was super funny and sharp comedy because it was a wider shot. You saw all the parts of the story. And so. Yes. Yeah. Just tiger is better.

Yeah. It was funny. I thought it was very funny. Unless you need to cut it because somebody's timing isn't great. Yes. Right. Then you can understand why you want to go in. Yeah.

Yeah. The opening was very funny. I do think the opening is funny how he set it up and you're right. The wider angle, it plays the comedy. better than tight. But I felt like that Avery could have judged it up a little bit more in terms of the pacing. I felt like the conversation between Dax and Lanar should have been even more on top of each other. Like to me, yeah, to me, the pacing was a little bit off in this scene. And I just, I would have loved to a scene even more like, oh my God, you know, being into each

other where it was too formalized in a way for me. It was too, you know, maybe you guys didn't see that. But for me, I got that energy of the two of them. just like popping with memories and stuff. But you almost can't go too fast with that kind of scene. Like overlapping. We used to do that on Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce. Part of our style was overlapping dialogue. We wanted people to interrupt each other.

Right. You know, when guest stars would come on, we would have to push them. No, you're not. It's okay. Start talking before they finish their line. Like, we want that pace. Yeah. Whereas we don't.

That's a youthful pace too. Yes. That is more the pace when you first meet somebody. Okay. All right. But if we would have overdone it, I think we might have over, we would overplay our hand, maybe. Maybe. Yeah.

Okay. I can see it from that angle. Doesn't the brother or somebody see us at some point? At the very end, yeah. He's in this scene. He does, oh, he's watching from a, like, he's hidden, isn't he? He's like, he's up in the balcony looking down and all of us. And we're still trying to be careful.

Yeah. We haven't lost ourselves just yet. That's right. That's right. Okay. Dax does mention in this scene how Curzon always tried to find a way around the rules, which I thought was a little detail of like, oh, she's got a little rule breaker in her. Like, we know that the rules are they're not supposed to be hanging out, but she's got a little curzon in her.

So she's going to. I think a little too much in this particular moment. I think I'll wait till we're at the end. But there is something that I didn't really notice until all the therapy I've done. Oh, yeah? That it kind of revealed itself in this. And it's kind of interesting about the overall way that Judziah Dax is acting. Well, Jadzea does mention this about Curzon.

Lenara says in the scene, you know, I don't think we would have gotten along me and Curzon. And Dax says in this scene that, you know, you and I, Me now, Jadzia and Lanara, have a lot more in common than Tarias and Nalani ever did. Yes. So basically kind of saying, yeah, we've got that past, but now we're even more right for each other. Like we, you know, we're both in the science thing. We both love the same thing. But there's a cell.

There is a bit of a cell. The cling on ear. That's what I'm talking about. The cling on earrings. Yeah. Yeah, that was like, what? What? Dax comments on the Klingon earrings, and Linar gives them to her, gives her the earrings, is a affectionate token. They're really connecting. Dax even grabs her hand at the end of the scene.

That's what Pren sees. He looks down and he sees that Dax has taken her hand, is holding her hand here. So, yeah, they are definitely pushing the boundaries. Can we just talk about the earrings for a second? Just a quick second. The earrings themselves. Have either of you seen any Star Trek where a Klingon female has worn earrings ever? I mean, I'm just like, the minute they said that, I'm like, really? Well, I could hear about another race, but I just don't think that that's even of any importance to a Klingon warrior female of putting earrings on. I don't know. It was just to connect that I have.

I get it. I get it. But they could have used another race other than Klingon. Another species. No, they couldn't, though, because the point was to connect to Kerson, Dax-loving. That's right. Dax loving, I mean, Jadzia loving the Klingons, just as Kerson had loved the Klingons. So that was the point.

Got it. Yeah. But I could see where you'd maybe want them to look maybe a little more. Like a Klingon amulet or something, something other than airing, maybe, you know, that could have been. I hear what you're saying. Okay. Yeah, earrings feel very human, like a human. Yeah.

Yeah. And non-Klingon in a way. Yeah. But the design was cool. Yeah, it didn't look like a clean-on. It was cool. Yeah. I mean, I didn't like them personally, but it looked good for the scene.

I would wear them. For sci-fi, did it look okay? I had a pierced year back in the 80s, and I was nominated for a daytime Emmy for all my children. You were? Yeah. So I wore a big, long, dangly earring. I was like, I'm going to be rebellious.

I'm going to be, because my character was such a goody. I'm such a creative guy. Yeah, I'm going to show how creative. Because my character was such a goody, two shoes. And I was like, so I got this really. See what a badass I am? Exactly. I like to be outside the box.

Yeah. I don't blame you. I get it. I've done stuff like that before, too. Not the eerie example, but. Yeah. But how'd that go? Well, my grandmother after, because, you know, my family knew I was nominated, so they

watched the daytime Emmys used to be on TV back in the day. Yes. And, uh, I went to them once with John Stamos. Oh, yeah, super fun. It was at the Waldorf Astoria Ballroom in York. It was really fancy. And, but my grandmother watched it. And she's like, oh, yeah, I saw you and then, sorry you didn't win that Emmy, but it was so exciting. She goes, I don't know if I liked that ear in, that thing in your ear. She said that. I don't know if I like that thing in your ear, though. that was a very diplomatic way of saying what the hell are you thinking exactly so do you have an image of that do you have a screenshot of that i don't think so oh my god i would love to see not for today i would have worn the cling on earring if i if i had had that's my point right there you go that was what i was

going for now would have been more rebellious to have a cling on earring okay yes all right uh all right so we go to the bridge of the defiant now they're they're testing this artificial wormhole experiment. Dax goes over to Lenara's station to help. She's so helpful, Dax. She is. Just to help her. I like to give it that personal touch.

Yes. Can't do it from over there. I got to come up real close. I got to feel your energy. Exactly. Pren is watching you. He is watching. Laser.

Laser focused. Not just Pren. Also, the brother, Bazal, is watching. Yeah, Bazzal, Bajal? No, it's Bazzal. It's definitely a Z, which is my question. Why did they write a J if everyone on their set is pronouncing it with a Z? Bazzal.

Yeah, they all said Bazzal. Well, Bazzal, Prince is watching. He tells Bazzal that he saw them having a private meal together last night. Yeah. But Bazzal's not really worried about it yet. No. But he clocks it. And then they start this test and the distortion forms and the wormhole is generated for just a few.

seconds. Yahoo. It works. Dax puts her arm around Lenora. She's very proud of her. And then it cuts over to Pran and Bazal looking. Yep. PDA, public displays of affection. Yeah. And it was a little too. I was like, I'm so proud of you. I'm so proud of you. I'm like, whoa. I haven't seen you for two whole days, but I'm, I mean, for 150 years. I've seen you for two whole days. And now it's all my pride that matters to you. So proud. I was just waiting for print. So self-involved. I was waiting for Prynne or Buzal to walk over, like they were a teacher at the middle school dance.

Like, we need two feet between you two. You can't be touching. Keep your hands to yourself. People. We go into the replomat next. Lanara is so excited. She said it worked for 23 seconds. Now they've got us on a probe through.

She does tell Buzal that Dax suggested a class four probe would be great. sent through for the test. Bazal says, oh, I didn't know you've talked to Dax since we came back with the Defiant. When did you talk to her? Lenar says, well, she came by my quarters last night. Bazal's like, you know what? People are noticing what's up.

And Lenara is very offended by this. She gets up and storms out. But I was like, why is she so shocked if that's the rules and her brother's just saying. Well, because nothing's happened, right? Physically nothing's happened between you two at this point, correct? Right, they're in denial. Yeah, they're in denial.

That's true. Yeah. The two of us are in denial. Mm-hmm. Oh. Well, he follows her out as Lanar is trying to leave. He asks her directly, is something going on? She says, no, nothing is going on, okay?

And he takes her to word. He's like, okay, I believe you. All right. We go to Dax's quarters, though. And before Linar comes in, Dax is doing some sort of, super slow sit-ups. Terry, please explain. Terry, talk about it.

I'm sure Avery wanted me to be doing, I mean, right? It wasn't like it was hard for me to do. No. Hey, you're in shape. But it was like you were popping up. Especially thin. Up and down.

Believe me, I'm not the actor that says, no, I want to do sit-ups. So I'm doing sit-ups. No. This is like one of those, we have to do it for some reason. I have to be. And what am I wearing that I'm doing sit-ups with my hair down like that? Oh, my word. I hated that outfit. It was so uncomfortable. I am looking to see. I'm not necessary, but I did. It's like, oh, it's going up. Every time it was just so uncomfortable. Couldn't Bob have helped you, Bob Blackman, and adjusted your outfit a little bit? My goodness. Well, I think that it just was what it was. It looked to me like a budget-friendly outfit, to be honest with you, didn't it? It was like all this one rayon thing.

That's a very nice way of putting it. Yeah, that was very nice of you. We have nothing extra for Terry's costume. Okay. Use this rayon fabric and go. It's that or the panty hose and a bra. Got it. So I put it on.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm looking to see if the sit-ups are. are in the script, but I can't find... Oh. He might have just asked me to do it. I want to know about these super slow sit-ups. I found it. Yay.

In this mystery. It says, it says, in Dax's quarters, interior Dax's quarters, Dax is sitting on the couch reading a pad. She's in her civilian clothes. The door chimes. Come in. Lanara comes in. It doesn't say sit-ups in the script.

Then Avery told me to do sit-ups. Oh, my goodness. That's an Avery special. I would much rather sit on the couch looking at a pad. Thank you. I know. Thank you. I wonder what that impulse for doing something so kind of arbitrary.

It looks arbitrary. Yeah. It looks off. It looks like, what's she doing? Yeah. I mean, was she trying to like, because she's wound up about this love of her life coming back? And then why does it move the table? Yeah.

You kept disappearing. Who works out in between their couch and their coffee table? You know what? Sometimes it isn't advantageous not to question and a motivation. Yes. But it just is also, I trusted Avery. So if that's what he wanted me to do and I'm not seeing how the camera's seeing it, then that's what I'm going to do. Yeah. Well, you did it. You did a very good job of sit-ups. I think what may could it maybe be that when she came in she couldn't see me right away so we see her and then they come into we come into a there's a line come on in come in so she brings the doorbell she hears you right and then you say and then you see her and say what's wrong no it's just an it's a quirky I mean Avery's a bit quirky sometimes so he might have just said I want to do something quirky quirky because it's cool. Well, that's the blessing of a series.

Not everything works and we'll be on to the next scene and on to the next show and episode and year and season. Well, I thought the sit-ups are now in my mind forever. Yeah. Your sit-ups. I'm just imagining. I don't generally do them that slow. Yes.

I do them to get them over with. Yes, me too. I'm just imagining someone starting a new gym called The Living Room. And you get in there, and you've got to do all your exercises between an end table and a little couch. We could call it the space between workout. The space between workout, exactly. Nice. Well, Lenara comes in.

She's very upset with her brother. She says he thinks something's going on. And this is when Dex says, you know what, maybe we shouldn't see each other. Yeah, she's borderlining a little hysterical. She's that upset. Yeah. She's very upset. And Lenar admits that's not, you know, just because we.

don't see each other doesn't mean it's going to change how we feel about each other. And Dax reveals, you know, I don't want you to get hurt. I don't want to hurt you. I don't want you to be hurt by what might happen if we pursue this. And Lenar admits that she has not gotten over Dax. And this is the kiss, the famous kiss. I'm going to say that was one of the best screen kisses I've seen because I think that that is one of the most awkward things to pull off as an actor

because number one, you have no history of making out with Susanna Thompson before this, you know what I'm saying? So you guys are on the set just doing it for the first time and you've got to show like you've been together for hundreds of years in the past. Yeah, yeah, major history. And the fact that you guys didn't, like

a lot of times I'll watch screen kisses and they're so awkward, but you guys were kind of, the tentative everything, the pacing was perfect on that one. Thank you. Really feel that, yes. Thank you. How many times did you guys film that, by the way?

Was it a... That was one take? Good job. I'm very impressed. Holy, comoli. And we never rehearsed it. Yeah? I mean, we rehearsed for lighting, but we didn't rehearse the kiss.

Right. Yeah, right. And I felt very much that I, I mean, it's obvious. I think, through the whole thing, that I am in this masculine place playing this character. So I think that was super challenging. Like both of us cried afterwards, but Avery went with her, and I went by myself to my trailer. No one came in to see me. It's also, I think sometimes, and you can speak to this too, both of you can, I think sometimes, at least for me,

there are things that I've done in my real life that I think I had the filter off or the barriers down because as an actor I was more free-flowing about what was okay but as a person

sometimes those lines get blurred and you make choices that you go why did I do that? That's not who I am but you're, it's just I don't know it's an interesting psyche going through doing this for a living

and making sure that I don't think I knew how to protect my own boundaries. So then I think that's where it gets blurred. And the more healthy you get and the more you can hold boundaries for yourself, the more you realize, wow, this can be a dangerous profession for a lot of people. Mentally. Yeah. I mean, there's a part of acting where you've got to cross over into your imagination 100%. If you're really going to do it, you know, that's the goal, I guess.

No judgment. Is to not judge your character or the script or the story, but cross over into this imaginary experience, 100%. 100%. Yes. Commit to it. Commit to it, right? Yeah, you have to believe this reality is real. Yeah.

And then when you bring in physical intimacy, whether it's kissing or love scenes or whatever, there's something about that that's even more vulnerable in a way than the pretend emotions, anger or vulnerability or tears or all of that I can pretend. But when I'm actually kissing another human being, And we're acting, there's something about that physical intimacy that is even more exposing in a way. And so to feel safe. Because it's the body that keeps the score. So when you actually act in a physical way, it really penetrates part of you, too, not just the character you're portraying. Is that part of what you're saying?

Yes, exactly. And you can totally understand where people think they're in love. You can totally understand that those journeys that a lot of actors, take or they marry somebody they did a movie with and then they get divorced. It's like, yeah, because that's not the real world. Right. You're in a pretend story. It's a fuzzy line. Yeah. Thank you for sharing the aftermath of that scene for both of you, having the emotion, because I didn't even think of that aspect of it, how it could fundamentally make you feel vulnerable. But when you mentioned that you and you and Susanna cried, I immediately started getting emotional

and getting to cry myself as well. Well, and Avery went off with her. And as I went off the set and I thought, I know she's the guest star, but it, okay, maybe he's going to come to my trailer to make sure I'm okay. Right. And I'm walking by the guys that were all around the monitor. Great kiss. That was all, you know, and it makes it even worse.

Like, this was so much more important than you guys getting your rocks off. We just kissed. it wasn't it but it was just and also I think it was wrapped up also in the emotion of yes the actual scene right is so it's very vulnerable it's very vulnerable there's so many things going on and it ends up being about the kiss not about the scene and then the emotional drama that is happening to them in real time is very intense yeah and that felt kind of of more later. I just keep thinking, wait, these things are popping up for me, and I'm like, wait, you got to wait.

I don't want you to forget them, though. I'm like, oh, I won't. You'll remember. Well, I loved this scene. It was beautifully acted. It was rooted in emotion and character, and that's why the kiss was so effective because of where it was rooted. Yeah.

It wasn't just in this exploitive kind of, oh, let's do something titillating for. people or it was rooted in real serious feelings and emotions and you guys did a great job thank you and every intentionally did a oneer yeah yeah and only did one shot because then they couldn't back out of what they promised we could do right we did what was written we didn't do more yeah and and if david livingston was directing you would have done that it's kissing about 17 times as well i hope that I don't know if Avery picked this one or if they picked Avery to do this one, but I'm so happy it was Avery. Oh, that's great.

I am so, so happy. Can I bust out some trivia for you guys regarding this kiss scene? Sure. All right. So this episode features Star Trek's first same-sex kiss ever. It wasn't until Star Trek Discovery, the episode Into the Forest I Go, that the first male-to-male kiss in Star Trek was shown. And that was just about 22 years to the date of the airing of this episode that Discovery showed a male-mail kiss, yeah.

Entertainment Tonight wanted to film the kiss between Terry and Susanna, but Avery refused to let them do so. He protected his actors. About his direction of the kiss, Brooks said, people want to hype stuff like that, but I wasn't going to have it. So he really put the clamp on that, which I think was smart of him. And for the integrity of the episode. Yeah. Do you recall that they were there on set trying to do that? I don't know if you knew that that was even happening at the time.

I'm sure that was a conversation. We didn't see them on set. Yeah. So Zena Thompson recalled Avery Brooks directing of this episode. It was my first time working on Star Trek where a director wanted me to come in prior to the first day you start shooting. So he got Terry and I together. I felt very safe with him.

And being an actor, he understood all the technical ramifications that you're sort of distracted with on any given day, but he also knew that this episode was going to be a little controversial because there was a same-sex kiss. He was so good at keeping us safe and protected, but also giving us such a great space to be brave. I love that quote by her. I remember sitting with them now off the set. Isn't that weird how it just pops in your head? Yes. Yes, I remember that now but also nobody was allowed on set during our kissing scene that didn't need to be there the stage was closed non-essential get off the set yeah okay yeah because all the guys were making such a joke out of course of course yeah one final bit of trivia due to its inclusion of a kiss

between two characters the same gender this is one of the most controversial episodes in the history of star trek according to ronald d more some felt betrayed didn't want to see this in their homes and affiliate down south cut the kiss from their broadcast so they showed the episode except for the kiss wow so they just ran what a one of those just a black screen that's oh my gosh wow wow well uh the kiss finally happened we knew it was headed there because it was just the chemistry between the two characters we knew it was headed there and um dax goes into Cisco's office. She needs some help, some advice. Cisco gives her some tough talk in this scene, though. Yeah. He says, he does, she asks him, what do you think I should do? Should I pursue this?

And he says, no, I don't think you should. And he says that because he knew Curzon. And Curzon said, you know, that exile for this kind of thing was too high a price to pay, even for love. And so Curzon didn't believe in it. So that's why Cisco is kind of giving this advice. And she pushes back a little, though. She says, I'm not Curzon. And I love Lenara. And then Cisco says, well, you did swear an oath to protect the symbion. Everything you learned and trained for and said you believed in is about protecting the symbion.

But he ends the scene by saying, you know, whatever you decide, I will back you 100%. And they hug. And this is a beautiful moment at the end of the scene where Dax says, she's never. had a friend like him. And that means a lot in the lifetimes of Dax has had a lot of friends and she's never had a friend like Avery. So, or like Cisco. It chokes me up because I felt that way about Avery. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it wasn't, that's what's the beauty of our job too is the trust that you build with people when you get to say things that are that honest. about the character, but it also mirrors how you feel about the actual actor.

It's just makes your job so easy. And for this, so easy. And for this story, I think, I think it's important that Cisco said, you know, whatever you decide, this is your life and your choice, whatever you decide to do with your life, I back you 100%. That's what true friends and true allies do. Yes. You know, people make their decisions, and we back them because they're our friends and we support them.

And if we're an ally of the LGBTQ community or if we're an ally or, you know, that's how you show your love and your care. And I think, like, this episode airs at the end of Pride Month, I think this is going to come. Which is the perfect episode to have on. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Was that just Kismet or did you guys make that decision? No, just Kismet. Kismet.

See? What? Kisman. Love that. If I could make a rainbow. The star is a rainbow. Yeah. Well, great scenes. Two back-to-back great scenes, by the way. Yeah. Scene in your quarters with Lanara and then the scene of Cisco. Yeah. We're on the bridge of the Defiant. They're doing the second test now. So the first test, the reason why this is different is that the probe that they're sending is shielded as if it's similar to a craft, a vessel.

not like a shuttle. So they're going to send this sort of a shielded probe through. But a huge explosion happens this time, not the effect that they were hoping for. And at this point, in the engine room, they can't hear anything from Eddington or from Lanara. It's sort of gone silent. So there's clearly some stress here

regarding the welfare of those two characters. No response from the engine room. No. Dax decides to run down there, and she says have damage control, meet me down there. We see her in the corridor. They meet her there with fire extinguishers, but Dax has taken the lead. She says, stand back, the door opens, and we see this giant plasma fire right next to the warp core. And Lanara is on the other side.

She's trapped and looks unconscious down there. Eddington's up top. He's injured. but Dax decides to make a force field to get to her to hold the fire or slow the fire down. And then you walk on top of the force field down to Lanara. How did you film that? What? That's a very cool bit.

I think it was plexiglass. Oh, really? If I remember right, because this is what I remember. I have a scar on my right shin because when I went down it, I slipped and hit one of the stairs. Oh. Oh, and it took the skin off. And they asked if I was okay, and I'm like, yep, we just got to do it right away. And the Jerry Wardrobe came over.

I'm like, get me a Band-Aid quick. Get me a Band-Aid quick. So we just moved my thing. Oh, my God. But I knew if they looked at it, it would stop everything. It would be a drama. You'd be sent to the hospital or the infirmary, the real infirmary. Oh, God.

Yes, which was right next door to where I was, which is kind of great. But still, you didn't want to slow down production. Look at that. No. Oh, my God. No, because you know you've seen with other people. It's just, it's like, oh my gosh, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's the time when you're like, the show must go on.

Suck it up. Just keep going. And it makes you proud of yourself too because it's, I didn't die. I didn't lose my leg. It was, it just hurt really bad. No, but you made a, you made a sacrifice. You made a sacrifice. Yeah, you know, you could have been treated, but you made a.

sacrifice for the good of the team. And also in this episode, when you're down there with the damage control team, you push them back. You're like, no, no, no, stand back. I'm like, if that was me, I was like, no, no, no, damage control. You guys open that door. I'll stand back here. Red shirts, you go first.

So I was in character. Yes. So basically, Dax gives it up sacrifices for the betterment of the team. And in real life, Terry Farrell sacrifices for the betterment of the team for the crew and the cast. No surprise, though. playing yeah right well also you're motivated there's the love of your life down there about to die from this fire so she's i'm also motivated to get the hell out of the scene yes

like once we get it we're not in there anymore yay yeah but let's not gloss over walking on top of a force field that's never happened or at least i've never seen that happen in star trek so i don't remember that no it was very cool it had to be plexiglass i don't remember doing any green screen for right but if you were but but wouldn't you wouldn't it hurt you'd be feeling something if you're standing on an electric field like would you be like i have powerful star trek boots yes you don't know you don't know their capabilities until you test them oh i have another one maybe didn't work so well otherwise they would have had that little walk of shame on the force field in voyager Well, Dax gets down.

She walks down the force field. An alarm sounds. Eddington runs out up top. He gets out of there and slams the door behind him. Dax grabs her in the Jeffries tube, shuts the door, and they just hold on to each other for dear life. They just, they don't want to lose each other again. Yeah.

Yeah. Never, never again, never again, never. Yes, that's a very real, another wonderfully real. moment. I think the repetition of not again, never again, never, never again. Yeah, especially when you're faced with a trauma that's... Yeah. Yes. It felt traumatic. And you survive it together. It's... Yeah. All right. We go into Lenara's quarters next. But Bazal is there. He pour some tea for Lenara, the doorbell rings, and Dax enters, and he decides to leave them alone for a minute. They discuss why the probe test failed.

And Lanara says, well, you know, I've got a lot of data now to study when I get back to Trill. But wait a minute. Weren't you worried the moment he walked away so calmly? Right when he walked away so calmly, I thought, nope. Yeah. She's not staying. He knows. They've had a conversation.

And he's relaxed. He's not worried. And if she were staying, he wouldn't be relaxed. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, just in case. I mean. Good point. I didn't really clock that. I clocked that he was calm and I thought, well, that's strange that he's so calm. Yeah. But that, but that this explanation totally validates that. Yeah. We can see that. Yeah. Yeah. So Lanara says she's got all this data. She's going to go back to Trill and Dax's like, wait a minute. Why don't you stay here with me and you can do

this work. We can do this together. You can do all that right here with me. Lanara says that she's not like occurs on. And she doesn't know if she could live with these consequences. And she says, look, I'm going to go back to Trill. I can always come back. Like, I can change my mind. Yeah. And Dax says, no, we both know if you leave. If you walk out of here now, you're never coming back again. It's so sad. Yeah. And she leaves. Dax leaves. And yeah, I get a little wonky there. Get a little desperate. Yeah. And then we have our final scene. with no dialogue it's just sad goodbyes it is not a happy ending yeah dax watches up above warf escorts the two men to the airlock first so we don't know where lanara is yet and the two men say goodbye and then

lanar arrives she looks around and she's about to step on when she looks back and sees catches dax from up above and they look each other for a minute and then lanara leaves but she doesn't look at me anything. No, she's... That was like, oh, that was... Yeah. And I am visibly upset, right? Like, just knowing she's going.

And I can't even go down there. It's a tragedy. This sad. Yeah. Did you want Lenara's character to have something other than the, you know, that she's displayed? Just a little, like, inkling of like, I still love you? And then, like, I gotta go, like, something. Or just, I'm sorry.

happened this way. I'm so sorry. Just that she was devoid of any emotion was kind of stunning to me. Empathy would have been nice. Just a little empathy on her side towards you of what's going on. That would have been nice. Yeah, or like a hurt. I don't know what it is. But she, that look, watching it back looked cut off. Yeah. Detached and completely. Detached. Yes. Got it. Which that felt like, wow. Yeah. That was a. slap that kind of a look yeah yeah it's a hard one because when you i i do believe that she had really really strong feelings but didn't have that ability to you know take the risk

and once she made the decision i'm i'm not going to do this i can't take the risk i can't take the consequences of this she had to shut it off like i sort of understand that choice from the actress to say once I've decided I'm I can't go there I've got to shut this whole thing down yeah but why look at me why look for me

yeah it wouldn't be nice maybe to see a crack for a minute and then to recover yeah I can't like happy to see me and then oh I don't know what I'm thinking yes let's talk about the theme

The lesson that we have in this episode. Robbie, what is your lesson for this episode? My lesson, I wrote down, love isn't always enough. Okay. That's my lesson. I would add to that. Sometimes it's too much. Yes.

Sometimes love is just too much. And it's not enough. Yeah. I agree. All right. So same for you guys. For me, I wrote down relationships and milk. When they expire, they're just.

Oh, you can't go back to them. Thouwer, a little sour, old curdie. Once they've soured, you can't go back to them. So don't live in the past. Live in the present. This is my lesson. Mm-hmm. All right.

Our Patreon poll winner, the theme moral of this episode, is submitted by Chris. Sometimes true love can't overcome all things. Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay. Yes. Feels like a theme. I think True loves a deeper conversation than they were having, yeah.

That would be also my two cents in this. I think it was about winning. Oh, interesting. Oh, deeper thoughts from Terry. Well, that's going to be in our bonus material. Yes. I can't wait to hear about that. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion of this episode, we joined,

and for all of our Patreon, patrons. Please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little deeper thoughts from Terry Farrell about this very important episode of D-Space 9. Everyone else, see you next week when we will be reviewing and discussing the episode Starship Down with Armin. Happy Pride Month.