The Delta Flyers - Resurrection

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell, and Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Resurrection, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Armin Shimerman.Resurrection: Major Kira takes a romantic interest in the mirror universe counterpart of her deceased lover Bareil after he transports himself into her universe and onto DS9.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts,Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, David Wei Liu, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jenny Cordina, Ryan Mahieu, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Sean T, Cindy Woodford, Tamara Evans, Shawn Robbins, & Francis Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, David Smith, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Robby Hill, Kevin Harlow, Chris Garis, Jeff Allen, Londyn Henning & Risa EinsidlerAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, AJ Provance, Brian King, Maxine Soloway, E & John, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Jason Potvin, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Sara Junius, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jason Eberl, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Cade Solsbery, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jay Furness, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Kilian Trapp, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Andrew Golden, Damien O’Donnell, Michael Bourguignon, Corey Evans, Patricia Welsch, Shannon Gregg Lucky, Ken Guthrie, Michelle Fox, & Jeff Schmedinghoff Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out ElevenReader and use my code PODCAST for a great deal: https://elevenreader.io* Check out Omaha Steaks and use my code BEEF for a great deal: https://www.omahasteaks.com* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/TDF for a great deal: https://www.quince.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space 9. Your host for today, I'm our fellow Trek actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil and myself, Garrett Wong, for the complete and exciting version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. You won't regret it. Yes. We won't regret it. Garrett, you and I not long ago went to Iowa to Trek Fest. Yes, it was amazing.

It reminded me of the convention in Vulcan, Alberta. It's a small farming town, and that's kind of where we were at, where we were in a parade. The Vulcan Convention has a parade. We got to sit in the car. And it was not as hot as it was the prior year when the Enterprise Boys were there. Yeah, I think Dominic and Connor really got the worst of it. I heard it was, it was like, because it's outside. The whole convention, Armin, is outside.

It's like a county fair. It's a great atmosphere. They got music and Little League tournament. And it's really charming. And I talked to the guy that runs it. He's a new guy running it. And I said, look, you really got to get Armin to come as well. You should go, Armine.

I'm kind of pushing you as well. Thank you. Here's a pro tip. If you get too hot outside, they do have a beer cooler, like a huge refrigerator cooler thing. any good. Oh my God, I went in there. Don't drink the beer. You walk in. You walk in and you stand in the

room. It's a refrigerator. Like a trailer. Yes. It is amazing because it just brings down your core body temperature where you can kind of deal with the heat. Because even though it was much better than the prior year, I'm so sensitive to heat that I was already schvitzing left and

right. So that saved my life. That's the pro tip I'm going to give you right now. I will remember that when I go to Iowa and I will also remind everyone that I have no problem with heat. One of the things that Quark taught me was how to deal with heat. Oh, interesting. Ever since then, heat doesn't really bother me all that much.

Good for you. Did you notice a difference after Quark and the makeup and all the cost, the hot cost? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't so much the makeup. The makeup, of course, was a little warm, but it was the costume more than anything else.

But our set was very, very refrigerated. But if I went to the commissary for food, which was rare, but if I did and I walked in costume, it was hot. I got used to that. I got used to that. I remember some days on the lot in the summer on the Paramount lot. It could get hot if you're walking across the lot. And the commissary was the opposite side of the lot. So if you went to get something, it was a long walk in the hot sun. Yeah. And we were not provided any type of transportation, Robbie, to get there. No, we didn't have golf carts or anything. We had to use our legs. We had to use our legs. We had no golf carts at all. Let's talk about some birthdays, Robbie. Yes, let's do. On all,

August 13th, let's all say a very, very happy birthday to Warren Stein. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Warren. Happy birthday, Warren. We also have Jan Hanford on August 16th. So happy birthday, Jan. Jan, many happy returns. Happy birthday.

Jan Hanford, happy birthday to you. Poetry synopsis time starting with Robbie. I'm feeling a little artsy-fartsy. Artsy farts us. That doesn't get a cushion. Exactly. All right. I got a little poem for this episode for resurrection.

It goes a little something like this. Barial showed up quite charming and sly. With her feelings, Kira was not very shy. They shared deep thoughts and laughter, but it's the orb he was after. Kira said, sorry, buddy. Bye, bye. I love it.

Thank you. Yeah. I tried writing a romantic. I was like, okay, I'm going to write a romantic about this. And it was just horrible. So you went a different direction. I went a different direction. Yeah.

Okay. Here we go. Here's my haiku for resurrection. Here we go. A new burial mirror Kira orchestrates and Tos chooses good. Sort of. I think that. Sort of.

There's not enough syllable. to say, and toast choose is sort of good. Sort of. Yes. Etymology. We can't wait for this. Yes. Yeah, no, don't, don't wait. This is rather short, actually. There isn't a great deal of information here. Okay. Already. The word resurrection comes from the late Latin. Forgive me, I don't speak Latin. Resurrection. And it also comes from the old French resurrection. The three definitions that I got from the OED, from the Oxford English Dictionary, is one, the rising of Christ after his death and burial. And that definition, that use of the word,

arrived in 1320. The second definition, the rising again of men at the last day. That's the second definition. And that sort of usage was used in 1300. And the third definition was, the rising again from sleep, decay, disuse, and this is sort of revival, and that was first used in 1385. And the way that I look at this episode and this title, that third definition is the one that seems to apply to me the most. Yeah.

Yes, yes. Resurrection. You know what would be cool, Robbie, is if you and I took a guess as to what country origin we think the word is before Armand tells us what it is. I think there wouldn't be many choices, but yes, that's a good thing. I mean, it's either Latin or French or Dutch sometimes, sometimes German, and very rarely is it on its own old English. Right. You know what I love about the English language, and I think it's one reason that it's becoming or has become such a world international language is it kind of absorbs a lot of other languages. I mean, from the etymology that you have, but also even.

Even now, it's still absorbing and, you know, adopting from other languages and other cultures. And what it's adopting more of is language from the Far East. In the beginning, I mean, English adopted a great many romance languages, French, Spanish, Latin. But now it seems to me that we're picking up words from the Far East and also from, you know, from Slavic countries as they progress as far as the technological know-how. Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting idea that you're talking about English evolving and changing in the future. In Star Trek, I wonder if they would speak English like we speak.

I mean, obviously we made the TV show when we made it. And so we used that language. But if it were a real future that we were looking at, the language would be very different. Even if it were English, it would be very. Certainly, Star Trek has created words that are now part of the English language. Yeah, true. They're technological terms that we now use. use commonly in English language because Star Trek made them up.

I would say that's interesting, Robbie, you're saying so in 400 years in the future from now, in the current start, what we're reviewing now in D-Space 9 timeline, English will definitely have evolved, right? It has to. It has to. Language always evolves. All languages evolve. Yes.

And my guess is I feel like the younger generation now, we're talking about teenagers now, seem to be abbreviating much more than when we were. teenagers, meaning, for instance, they don't say, let's look at my outfit. They said, check out my fit. It's just the FIT. They don't even have the beginning part outfit. It's just fit. Okay. We have a Pedroon submitted poetry winner. This is a rhyming narrative verse submitted by Jason Oaken. Ah, Jason. It goes like this. A mirror casts a dark and cold reflection. A specter risen from the days long gone to bring a front, a veiled resurrection that stirs the the past that crossed the Rubicon. A moral compass seeking a direction, redemption or deception

may take hold, a fight against one's inner predilection. The end has come as it was first foretold. Wow. Nice, Jason. Very Shakespearean. Very, well, yeah. Ish. The Iambic pentameter of it all. Okay. Right, maybe? Do you know, Shakespeare only wrote 60% of his verse is an iambic pentameter. So it's not like all of his verses. Oh, okay. I didn't know that. But it feels a bit of like that classic sort of structure that Jason writes his poetry and the narrative verse structure.

Yeah. Thank you, Jason. Thanks, Jason. Thank you. All right. Appreciate it. Let's get some facts out here. Written by Michael Taylor, who also wrote some wonderful episodes of Deep Space Nine.

Michael. Yeah. I've forgotten which ones they are. But another Kira episode, I think the one with where she meets the Cardassian, he's in jail, and he's trying to find redemption as well. Right. Yep. Yeah.

Michael Taylor. He's a good writer. Directed by LeVar Burton, guest stars John Toey as Osan or Asan. I can't remember how they pronounce that in there. He's the Bajoran Vedic. that sort of, you know, is in the temple speaking with them. We have Philip Angl back again as Bariol and Scott Stroser as security. Oh, that's how I know him.

Sorry. Scott Stroser, do, I do, I do, I do. Yes. He was one of the security guys over at my friend's nightclub Garden of Eden back when Voyager was filming. Oh, funny. Yeah. So I just, I kept looking at him going, why do I know this guy? And then I see the name now.

And I'm like, okay, yes, that's why I know. A little bit of trivia. Although Michael Taylor is credited as writing this episode, Ira Stephen Baer said that the idea was his, and the bulk of what you see on screen was the work of Ira and Hans Bimler. So I guess Michael's more teleplay then. The Navisitor did not like this episode. She felt that Kira acts out of character.

She felt that Kira was well over the death of Bariol, and that she felt that Kira would never get so involved with the man she had just met. Agreed. Iris Stephen Baer stated. That's unanimous then. Iris Stephen Bears dated. I knew we were going to get hammered for whatever show we came up with after the war arc and the wedding episode. People were going to say, this is what you're doing next.

It's that feeling of letdown after you've done something big. It was bad timing. It was bad timing and a week episode. But anyway. Okay. We will get into that. And then final bit of trivia, Sir Rock Lofton does not appear in this episode. I have Michael Taylor's DS9 credits.

They are The Visitor. That's the one I'm trying to think of the visitor. I was wrong about the Cardassian. It was about the writer. I think that's duet. But The Visitor, which is a great episode. Robinson's daughter is in Rachel Robinson. That's right.

Michael wrote The Visitor, Things Past, then Resurrection, which we're talking about today, and he will write one more called In the Pale Morrow. Moonlight. Oh, that's a great episode. And we've heard about that episode from fans saying that you just wait till you get to this episode. So that's a big one. Michael also wrote 20 Voyager episodes, including co-writing Bride of Chaotica.

And he wrote someone to watch over me, which I directed. Yes. And it's one of my favorite episodes we did. So there you go. Yeah, Michael's a great writer. Did he come on set at all when you were directing? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love Michael and Brian Fuller shared an office on our show and wrote a lot of scripts together. I like Michael a lot. Very talented. I don't think this is his best work.

I'll say that up front. It's more Ira's work than Michael's. Yeah. Let me just jump right into this sucker. Here we go. We start off with an opening exterior space shot of the station and then we end up in the corridor on DS9 with a nice walk-in-talk scene between Dax and Kira. Dax is trying to make suggestions on who Kira should bring as a dinner date. Captain Bodei is suggested.

Yes, it's romance talk. It is. Captain Bode is suggested, but Kira says that's bad suggestion. First, you used to go out with Captain Bodei, and number two, Worf hates him, and number three, we've discussed this many times. I was like, wait a minute. We've never seen this Captain Bodei. When did Dax go out with him?

She did. She did. Oh, she has. Oh, yeah. This is definitely a recurring. theme. This is the third time they've mentioned it and have never shown his transparent skull or him. So we don't know what he looks like. It's like more than talking. It's a running joke. It's a runner. Okay. I guess I maybe knew that. But it felt to me in this first scene like, wait,

what? What are we talking about? Okay. So now that you know it is a runner, does it change you a little bit? It helps a little. Okay. It helps a little. Because I'm going to say, both of you have already kind of revealed your hand on your thoughts about this episode. And I'm the opposite of you guys. I started on the other train where I was like, I don't know about that, but just right off the bat, this is very, this after, after all the stress of the, against the dominion, all the craziness, the, the fast pew-poo action, this was a breath of fresh air. This was like a, and the beginning was very rom-comy. It was like, okay. Yes, the beginning was rom-com and I thought we were going to see a rom-com and it turned into a something a little bit. Sobopra.

Yes. I agree. I agree on that. But still. That is. a good way to look at it. I like... I'm trying to do the... Yeah, the flip side a little bit here. Yes. You're just wrong, Garrett. That's all. You're just wrong?

Yeah, you're just wrong. But yes, you can do that. I don't know to your opinion. Thank you for my opinion to be heard. I appreciate it. And the fact that it is wrong is not even an issue here. It's just that I just want to have the opinion. The contrary opinion.

The other opinion. All right. A little bit of trivia, guys. The opening scene as shot was actually different from the opening scene. that aired, but it had to be cut for timing reasons. So originally the episode opens in Kira's quarters with Kira and Daxe looking at Zial's paintings. The scene then picks up in the corridor as seen in the finished episode.

So I'm going to read through. Robbie, can you play? Who do you want to play, Kira or Dax? I don't. I'll play Kira. Okay, I'll be Dax. Okay. But they cut this scene.

So I just, as people are listening to this, know it's going to be bad because they cut it. Okay. There we go. Early, interior, Kira's quarters, early morning. Kira is hanging one of Zial's framed ink brush paintings on her wall. Pull back to reveal two more of Zial's paintings already hanging on the same wall. The door chimes.

Come in. Dax enters. As Kira finishes hanging the picture and steps back to see the effect, Dax yons, not yet fully awake. Is it my imagination or does 0600 seem to come earlier and earlier? It's earlier than 0800 anyway. Well, either that or you're going. to bed later and later. I had forgotten how strenuous

married life can be. Kira and Dax exchange Rye grins as Kira finishes hanging the paintings. So, what do you think? I think as you all was talented, but not that talented. Hmm.

Too much. There. That's better. Yes. So how did you know that this was my favorite one? I guessed. Come on. We're going to be late. Kara nods and they head to the door. You really miss her, don't you?

I see why they cut the scene. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, look at the next line. Look at that. You really miss or don't. You're running, now we're in the corridor. And then, Kira says, oh, there's more scene. Oh, here we go. Yes, they walked down the corridor. I'll get over it. Death and I are old friends. That's a crazy line. Maybe he can be your date tomorrow. I told you I'm not bringing anyone. I know what you told me, but people changed their minds.

Not me, not about this. What about Captain Bodei? Okay. And then they go into the same. So it starts kind of morbid. And I think it's good that they cut that out. They didn't have that, right? I mean, it's sort of like, yeah.

Tell me, how do you hang something on a station wall? Yeah, exactly. It's, it's, what is it? It's all metal, isn't it? It's metal. What is the metal? some, I don't know. They've probably said it before.

Maybe they have some type of magnetic sort of thing that they use. Maybe it's magnetic. Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. That's the answer. Tape. Okay. Right about that. You're absolutely right. Am I right for one?

Yes, you're absolutely right. Am I right that your name is Armand Schimmerman? Am I right about that? Okay. Yes. Okay, good. Close enough. Close enough.

Okay, good. All right. So now we're in the TurboLift. We're going to go back to the real episode here. The conversation continues in the TurboLift. Dax suggests Dr. Treg toke. I think that's how they pronounced it. Dr. Tregtoke, but his middle eye bothers Kira, so no yet again.

So I think, Michael, I will say that Michael Taylor, knowing he wrote some good comedy moments and someone to watch over me and Bright of Chaotica and the episodes on our show. Some of this banter was very clever at the top. And I was like, oh, this is going to be fun. and it didn't turn into a fun episode, I wouldn't call it a fun episode. But this part was fun for sure. It had promise at this point for you.

Yes, yes. There's a lightness to it. Yes, it's fun and I did enjoy it. But there's a lightness to it that I, but I remind myself, we're still at war. I know. There's still a war going on. And we get some references to the war during the course of this episode.

Not much. Okay, so next we, the conversation continues. They get off the turbo lift. Now they're in ops and they start continuing to where their stations are. And Kira now vetoes Dax's suggestion to bring Odo. She goes, you could always bring Odo. I know. I like that they were kind of teasing the Odo thing here.

That was nice. Yeah. But to what you were saying earlier, Armin, we're still in the middle of the war. And you're right. This episode sort of just removes that entirely because there's a later, and I'm jumping ahead just a little bit, just to further your point, when they talk about there's a beam in about to happen. And then Dax comments, well, that's strange because there's no ships in the area.

Well, they are now in the middle of the war. They are the headquarters for the ninth squadron. So there's going to be hundreds of ships in the area. They're on the front lines, yeah. Well, they do talk about Martaq's scouts. Those are the two references. Those are the two references that concern the war that they stick in to remind us that we're at war. But it just seemed after.

like that tone that you would happen. Right. The thing about the beaming in, you know, they recognize someone's trying to beam into ops. Right. Remember that? Because later on in the episode, I'm going to ask a question.

I am too. I think I know what you're talking about. Well, Armand, would you have a better opinion of this episode if it aired like a season or two later or just or different time? I totally agree with what you said

that Nanas said about the character. This is not, this is not Cira. It's out of character for character. It's not character. It's totally out of character. To jump back to your, someone's beaming in in ops right now, they don't know who this is. They can't place it.

Dax even says someone's attempting to beam in. I don't know where they're from. There's no ships. Dax is drinking her rack to Gino while she says this. Oh. And I found that to be, oh, I'm just going to casually. No, big deal. I don't know.

While they're at war and a mystery person is beaming in from God knows where. This should be high alert. High alert, right, Robbie? Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the actors. were not reminded of the stakes, of the circumstances, of the objectives of, you know, of the station, and what was at stake there? I just, yeah. But that would be a director issue then? Or a director failing.

Yeah, and it's funny because I said to Rebecca when I watched it the other night, the first time, I watched it again this morning. But I said to Rebecca as it started, I was like, oh, I already liked this directing because the camera was moving. We're walking down the hall. It was pace. It was the banter. I was like, oh, this will be fun. Yeah. And I completely flipped by the end. I did not. Things like this. Like,

why is the character drinking coffee while they're talking? That's a director to say, I mean, the actors should have their objectives and there's, you know, all of that. But if they don't, that's the director should have to go,

hmm, that doesn't fit all the facts we know. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I thought of. Yeah, no, that makes it. That's oversight,

I guess. Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Okay, jumping back into the time that we're in. Yes. The pair continue into ops.

She vetoes the suggestion of bringing Odo. She decides to go solo. O'Brien informed Cisco that he's reading a power surge in the transporter buffer. Dax says someone is trying to beam in to ops, but there are no ships in transporter range. A huddled figure turned away, materializes on the transporter pad. Kira sort of moves over to the pad area and asks if they are hurt, to which the person turns around, pointing a phaser at her. and WTF, barial,

he wants a ship. Cisco agrees and informs security that there is a hostage situation. It's a whole different barial too. The energy.

Correct. Yes. And he takes Kira hostage awkwardly, I might add. I don't know what that weird sort of Lombata waltz

that they were doing and starts to move towards the docking bay. Any comments, gentlemen, on this scene? You've got so many people standing around

his back is to many of them. He could easily take a, you know, stun him and he wouldn't be able to pull the trigger on the weapon he's holding. Like, there's a million ways he could have been disabled. Got it. And, and, Kira is calm as a cucumber, which they buy back later because she says I was never worried. But we don't know that yet. Yeah. And she shouldn't know that either.

And she's a good undercover. She shouldn't show her hand to this, you know, hostage. You should pretend it. police to, I'm scared or something. She was cool as a cucumber. I'm always reminded of the director who said to me, you're the only character that can show fear on this program. So I think NNA's choice, and I think NNAZ extraordinary actress

and this episode proves that to some extent. But it's that she's never going to show fear, unless it's scripted. And this wasn't scripted, so she's not going to show fear. Okay. And it's, you know, it's also someone that she had a relationship with. Granted, it's not exactly the same person, but it sure looks like it.

Yeah. Yeah. I will often say if I'm directing and before I start shooting, we often have what's called a tone meeting where you sit and you go through with the writers. And if they say something in a tone meeting that I didn't expect, that I didn't see on the page, like, oh, I want that character to pretend to be afraid, but I'll say, you know what, I'm not sure the act that everyone's going to know that. Can you write that?

Please put that in the description. And the only person who I thought was reacting correctly is Avery. Yes, he was. Avery is furious at this situation and threatens, you know, barryo with, you'll never get out of this alive if you hurt her. I thought Avery's doing the right stuff. Why isn't everybody else doing it? If he's going to walk all the way through ops holding a cure. you know, have someone start to reach for something and beryl turn and go, no, no, no, you know, even without the words, show us, you know, as the director staging the scene, like, don't move, don't move. I've got you, I've got you. And you could see those reactions of people, okay, we've told the story that he's quick and they should not move or, I don't know, there could have been some action there. It didn't feel. And instead we get a slightly comic moment where he reaches for a Danish.

Yes. The way he reached for it as well, did you guys notice? It almost, I thought it was a button of some sort because he just slammed his hand down on it. And then I'm like, oh, he's getting food. Okay. Yeah. It started losing me already, the same. Well, okay, it started losing you, but to what you said earlier, Robbie, you said this is a very different barial when he turns around.

I did like that. That's what drew me. And then I lost it lost me. Okay, well, I was still on board. You dropped off the train, but I love the fact that this is a different barrio because you know how much I hated the other barrio. I complained about that barrio, Vedic barrio, endlessly saying this is the most boring character. He would never be with Kira. I don't like this character at all.

And now this barrio, to me, is like, wow, he's exciting. You don't know what he's dangerous. He's dangerous. He's unpredictable. So I love this barryl. To everything you just said, there was a group of people at Philip Anglin had a relatively vocal fan club that called themselves bring back barrile.

And so whether or not the writers were aware of this, I don't know. But we, the actors, were aware of it. And so they did. They brought back, but a different barrile. Wow. The writers got it their way and the fans got it their way. Great. So the fan group existed because they loved.

Vettic Bariahe. That's right. Okay, because I would have been the president of, I don't like, yeah, vetting. Got it. Okay. Okay. Okay. And he's back.

And with vengeance, I love this pariah. Okay. So now he's out of ops with Kira. They're in a corridor. And it turns into basically a walk and talk with Bariah and Kira. And we now definitely realize that he is alternate universe or mirror universe Beryl because he just, he's completely like a deer in head. He doesn't know anything about what's going on in this world.

He's learning it step by step, beat by beat by beat. He's getting through this. And it's a little bit of a funny bit because he's trying to avoid using any turbo lifts because he feels that someone can basically stop the power and trap him. So he's going to take the manual way and they get to one juncture and they've got to go up this ladder. And so he asked how many levels before we reach the landing pad to get to that shuttle for me to get away? Kira responds, 57. And the response from Brile was a lot of levels.

Yes. He's going to get his cardio in today, for sure. Which pays off with Philip Anglom in the next scene. Yes. Because he's panting. He is. But Kira seems to be in superhuman shape. Yes.

Doesn't seem to be at all phased by 57 flights of stairs. Yeah. So we're going to buy the fact that she does that on a regular basis to train. She just goes up and down that ladder. So it's nothing to her. That's the only way we can base it on. But Marial, Philip, does a great job. because yes, in the upper pylon, we're at Lennypad A, and he is out of breath completely.

And also, before that, we do have an exterior space shot from an upper angle. We don't see that that often. Yeah, it. Love it. Yeah. Yeah. And then we're in Upper Pylon A where he's gasping. Kira's very confident.

She's not out of breath. She even says, you're not going to kill anyone without disruptor. The power cell's cracked. And then he's like, well, why did you? come with me. She says I needed the exercise. I guess that's the excuse. Like she likes to exercise. See?

Maybe. It's written in. Ish. Ish. They're at war. Yes. Yes. And it goes to lift this weapon. It is the biggest tell of what he's about to do.

It's not hard for hurt. Yes. Telegraphs. The weapon. raise and she just tosses them you know over her shoulder and onto the floor and that's when Odo appears with the airlock opening

and and Riles arrested I guess. Yeah so one would assume they've been monitoring their movements. You remember in Ops what Cisco said he made the announcement to the crew to security that there is a hostage level situation

so Odo's already on at that point Odo and his team are going to travel by turbo lift so they are already there way before they get there. So they heard everything, especially the part about the broken phase or so. But shouldn't they come in? Garrett, Garrett, that's perfectly, perfectly right. Absolutely.

You are totally right. Yes. But shouldn't Renee have walked in a little trepidious to see what the situation is before he realizes, oh, it's under control? It came in pretty confident. Pretty confident. Yes. As though he was about the flip already.

My line. It was a little bit of that. This is the stuff that I think all along the way should have been supervised more closely by the director. I agree. I do think they were sort of left to just say the words and do what they did. It doesn't feel like it was curated this story and totally. And if it was, if every T was crossed and every I was dotted, I think you both would feel this is a better episode. In our bonus material, I'll talk about the real way.

that I think this could be made much better. All right. Yes. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. All right. So he's in holding cell now. And Barrio has this conversation with Kira.

And ultimately it gets to the point where he is curious about meeting his counterpart. At which point, Kira tells him, well, you can't do that because he's dead. And the whole, I guess, the whole pitch or the whole theme or the whole reason why Barrio is here from what we understand at this point is that he is requesting asylum in this universe. He's sort of done with his other, in the mirror universe. He's been kind of on the run and dealing with all type of things. And he just wants a new start, a fresh start. And this would be a great place to have a fresh start. And that makes perfect sense.

That moment to me went, yes, absolutely. I'm with that 100%. Yeah. Gira sort of declines and says, no, you can't do that. You're not allowed. You've got to go back to your own time, your own reality. Briel almost stooped to the point of begging. and, you know, she suggests being put in a prison, a labor camp, anything.

Just keep me here so I don't have to go back to the hell that I came from. He just wants to stay, that's all. And you're right. It makes sense. It makes perfect sense. Well, Kira has the same attitude because in the next scene in the captain's office, she tells the captain, you know, I don't blame Burial for not wanting to go back. Cisco talks about this mirror universe confusion that he felt with Jennifer that when he saw

Jennifer, he felt like it was his Jennifer, and he reminds Kira, it's not, they're not the same person. This could lead to some confusing feelings for you. I'm warning you. And Kira says at the end of the scene, oh, it won't be a problem. Whenever a character says, oh, it won't be a problem. It's going to be a problem. That's the rules, people.

Rabia has written in the notes after it's not a problem. He goes, oh, it will. Is it real capital? It will be a problem. Oh, yeah. We're on the promenade, and Bariol is looking around. He notices people that are staring at him, and Kira explains that they knew the original her Beryl, who was a Vedic, a very important religious leader. And Beryl kind of scoffs at that, you know. And then Kira invites him to attend temple with her. She's going to go there, but he declines. Basically, he's saying like he's an atheist. I just don't believe in any of this. I'm not interested. religion and he doesn't want people to think that he's the real burial or anything like Vedic barial, right? Anything like him at all.

Yeah. And Kira goes into the temple, the thing at the end of the scene that I noticed, there was a monk hitting chimes as the monk outside was kind of welcoming people. And the monk hitting the chimes. And I played it back. I'm like, where's the chimes? They forgot to put the chimes in. So this is a fully issue?

Is it like who? It's a sound mixing issue. Okay, the sound mixer. He's literally going bring, bring. And there's nothing. Maybe I'm going deaf. I don't know, but I didn't hear anything. Well, you caught it.

I didn't notice it at all, but you caught it. But you already need picky from that. I know. I'm already like, once you lose me, I'm like, there's a problem and there's a problem. And there's a problem. Put some chimes in there, people. Okay. So he's already says he doesn't.

doesn't want to go in there. So the next shot, we are in the shrine. With her. Yeah, Keara's already there. She's at service. Then all of a sudden, Bariol does show up. So I guess he has second thoughts. He comes in. And I love how the background actor just conveniently moves out of the way so to let Beryl kneel kneel down next to Kira. Sorry, I need to be in the main focus of a camera. Please move. And so they do. It's wonderful how Hollywood works like that. So a box is being brought in. And Boreil's like, what is that? What is that? Well, that's what?

where the orb is. He's like, or what the heck? The prophets. So this is a whole conversation about Bajoran religion that Ryle doesn't know anything about. Now, my question to both of you is, did we, I don't think we ever saw. We got no glimpse of what the Bajorans were thinking of or their religious stance in the mirror universe. We never saw that.

So, right? It seems like they don't have any spirituality at all. But I thought it was, I thought the mirror universe was just. just a different version of it. Like, they still had orbs, but they used it for something. I just was confused. I was like, wait a minute.

How does he not? Knowing where this episode goes, if they had orbs, they wouldn't have had to come here for one. To try to grab it. Okay. So they don't have any type of framework of religion that the Bajorans in this reality have.

He says, she asks him, do you have gods? Peir asks Burial, do you have gods? And he said, yes, we have gods. I just stay away from them. But yes, they do have gods. And obviously, they must have certain religion because that too is involved with the stealing of this. Yes. I'm giving things away, but there it is.

Well, again, he's getting it. It's the introductory course to Bajoran religion is what Kira is giving to Bariah here. And I just want to make note that they're talking for like two, three minutes in a service that is silent. Yes. Don't they get, they did get shushed at the end, though. Yes, they did. And I'm wondering. I did looking at that and I'm thinking, is that scripted or is that NNA finally playing that

that they're making noise in a meditation period? Because, okay, they don't have a service. I'm thinking, okay, it's meditation. It's just, it's meant to be quiet. Everyone's just to meditate. So her finally looking that way out. And then I thought in ADR, they put in a shush or something. Oh.

Maybe. There you go. That's very possible. I think it would have been better for this scene if there had been like either some some, I don't know, sermon or something going on that you could kind of buy that while while people are listening to this other thing, this song or this sermon or this, where they're all, I don't know. It just felt like it was silence.

In a silent room like that, anybody even going, hey, what do you? What do you think about this? People would be like, what? Okay. Can I pitch you something rather? Please. Okay. All right. So Kira walks in and realizes all the places to kneel are taken up. So she has to stay towards the back. And that's when Bario walks. Yes. Brow walks in. Barow walks into the door, sees it's already full. You're a director, Garrett. You're a director now. Stage him off for the side. And didn't it seem to you that Nan knew he was there before she saw him? I didn't catch that. He's coming down the back of the aisle and she turns back to look. And I go, he hasn't made a sound, how does she know that he's back there? No. And I, I, I, I, you're, you're right about that. I almost felt like this was the 12th take and

she sort of telegraphed herself, you know, she's like, oh yeah, there, there he is. They could have put in like a squeaky floor like, or he could have said to the, to the background person, uh, um, excuse me. Yes. And then she could have turned. Yes. Yes. Okay, we're in the promenade, Robbie. We've finished the service. They've walked out of the promenade. Kira asks, Barrio, what he thought about it. He said, you know, it was interesting, but I feel everyone takes this so seriously. He prefers to believe in nothing. That way he is never disappointed.

Kira thinks that isn't much of a life to live, but, you know, he is content with that life. More importantly, he says he's glad that he had this chance to see her again. And I felt he gave her flirty eyes right there. He was like, boom, very quickly. Well, if that happened, that's great because at the end of the scene, I'm like, why is she asking him out on a date? Because he gave flirty eyes. You didn't catch that. So I saw flirty eyes.

And that's when Kira is like, hey, you like cling on food, don't you? And so that's where the date came in because she thought, oh, I feel something now. Kier is a character that immediately goes to her prejudices. She has to be taught not to be prejudiced. If she sees her Kardashian or immediate, her spine comes up. She sees a Ferengi, it's the same way. If she sees anyone that she's not a species that she's, not happy with she gets on the defensive okay she's been to the mirror universe she should be equally

suspicious of barrio yes as of anybody else from the from the mirror just because she looks he looks like barrya yes give him a little a little but only a little leeway because he's from the mirror universe right where nothing nothing is good yeah and so she did not play wary or concerned. This is why Nanas says, this is not my character. This is not my character. Yeah.

All right. I agree. We're in Dax and Wharf's quarters at this point. And it's dinner time. And guess what? Barile is the guest that Kira actually brings to this. And Barrio's in the middle of a very

entertaining story about how he was in some type of prison. And there was a Klingon guard who he ended up stealing his mecloth and using that to sort of, you know, escape from the prison, using it as a screwdriver or whatever, and he's able to get out. And the entire time, Worf is practically rolling his eyes and roll. I don't think practically is right.

I think he was rolling. Oh, my God, he couldn't stand it. Yes, he was so mad. He was like, what is, what is this? This is, it was the most awkward story and awkward laughter after a story. I think I've ever seen on film. It was, it just didn't play. I'm sorry, Robert.

The story's not funny. By the time they realized that was gone, I was halfway to the Ventar. It's not funny. So you either have to play that, oh, we missed the funny part. So they're already laughing at the top. You know, an hour later, the Klingon Guard returned to myself. Oh, my God. Like, then we can at least assume, oh, he said something funny before because nothing in

this story justifies the way that they're being charmed by him, in my opinion. It's not a... So the story. was told at the wrong point. If he started at the end where it was the laughter, then you didn't know the punchline or the setup, then you could have bought it. I don't know. The structure of the

way it was played with the writing to me didn't work at all. Like you either need a punchline, a real funny punchline, or you need to say, oh, he's been telling these funny stories for hours and we're just coming right into this. This is story number eight now.

Yeah, it was awkwardly silent, listening to this as if it's really interesting. which it's not. All right. That doesn't, you know, like in my... Good call. What do you think, Carmen?

I'm thinking we should have seen him... You said it, actually. We should have gotten an opinion that he's already charmed the ladies. We need Philip Anglham to be a little bit more charming in the telling of this story. And now he was doing his best

for what he was given. But we just need to see that he's charmed the pants off these ladies, both of them. Yeah. Pace would have helped. And Morph has every right to be just a little bit jealous that his wife seems to be more taken with this guest than she is with her husband. Yeah.

Yeah. I also think this is where I started to feel like Pace as an overall note. This episode goes very slowly, in my opinion. And so it doesn't help. It doesn't help him be charming when he's so intentional about each word and each thought and then a pause and another pause. It felt, whereas if he's kind of charming in the way you're describing Armin, and part of that is the pace that Kira's can't keep up with it. Oh, that was charming and that was charming.

What did he say? I can't keep up with him. He's so charming. I think I could have bought that her character was sort of just overwhelmed by the volume and the pace of it all and the energy of it all, but it felt very slow. Lots of time to think about these moments and go, wait a minute. This doesn't make sense. And all of these characters have been in similar situations where they've escaped.

Kira's escaped, Dax's escape, Woff has escaped. So hearing a story about how someone escaped from a dangerous situation is second nature to these people. Yeah, that is a point. Did either of you like the fact that he sort of pilfer the meck left at the end? I like that. That was a surprise. Warf is like, oh. I did like that.

Yeah, okay. I don't know how he could have done that with everybody watching. him, but okay. Slight of hand. You know, when Wharf is rolling his eyes, I think, okay, he took his eyes off him. But the other two ladies, they're still watched. They're intent about watching it. That's true.

They watched everything he's done. That's true. Hey, Gary, you know what I did this morning? What? I used an app called 11 Reader to listen to a script while I drove to work, a script that I'm prepping to direct. So you uploaded a BDF to the app and you were able to hear it while you're driving to it.

That's a game changer, Robbie. Yeah. That's incredible. You can upload your own content like PDFs, docs, you know, fan fiction, whatever you want, or you can listen to bestselling audiobooks with super realistic voices. It was incredible. I had Bert Reynolds read my script. How would you compare this to other reading apps that are out there? Oh, I've tried them. I've tried the other apps. And you can pay 15 bucks a month. You get one credit, one book. Or you could use 11 reader where they've got over 200,000 premium titles. They've got all the best sellers. You know, they've got a free, plan that packs incredible value and an ultra subscription for only $11 a month. So you start with a free 10 hours of your own content or you can upgrade to Ultra for 11 bucks a month and unlock unlimited uploads plus 20 hours of premium audio books every month. That's amazing. 11 bucks,

it sounds like you're getting more and you're paying less than the others. Yes, and you get Bert Reynolds to read to you. Hey, who's going to argue with that? Check out 11 reader. Use promo code podcast. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T and get your first two months for only $1. Okay, so we move on from here. We're in the corridor. Barrio is walking Kira back to her quarters. Kira tells Barrio that he made a good impression on her friends, and he's surprised, which then shocks Kira in return,

as he must have had friends back home. But he says he can only think of one, and she died. Kira doesn't want to end the night on a sad note, and she decides to invite him in for a rectagino, which is code for Netflix and chills. She's kind of saying, I think. And that is ultimately what happens. We're still in Kira's quarters, a little bit of time jump.

Raya was now telling Kira how he met that friend, the one that died, how he lost her. He says that when he activated the transporter device, he had no idea where he would end up. And Kira tells him that two days ago, all she wanted to do was to be alone. And so then he starts kissing her fingers and then her lips and then it keeps on going. And I will say that this will not meet the Cisco stamp of approval. No, it will not. Cisco said. Or the Armand stamp of approval for that.

The Armand stamp of approval. It's also like this was a moment where I had, it was part of it was the score, the orchestra and the music and everything. It felt like a daytime soap opera to me. Literally I was like, oh my gosh, we've crossed over to a soap genre. Because of the pacing as well, correct? The pacing, the music. All of it just felt. Yeah.

Leaning on the pillow. I thought, okay, all right. But that's, I'm with you. At that moment, I thought it was a soap opera. Yeah, it feels like a soap opera now. There's nothing wrong with soap operas. No, and there's soap opera fans who also are sci-fi fans that are watching this episode and loving it.

I'm thinking this is the best thing since Toast was invented. Yeah. But I do think that you can have a soap opera on a Star Trek episode, and it can be a little melodramatic and lean into these kind of, you know, romance tropes, yes, you can do that. But somewhere in there, the science fiction, the science story needs to be equally as strong, or you lose, you know, the genre that this story is in. It's a science fiction show with a soap opera story sort of attached to it, but it's still, it's got to have stronger science fiction. I sort of was losing the science part of this. Yes, you're right, Robbie. This was

90% soap opera, 10% sci-fi. Or maybe less, five percent sci-fi. Maybe less. Yeah. We go to Keira's bedroom and they're in bed together and he talks about eating alvas or something. Like he's never had an alva, right? And Kira says they're everywhere on Bajor. They grow everywhere on Bajor. And by the way, they grow everywhere on earth because they were just green grapes. So they weren't that exotic. They grow everywhere. But they taste good. Yeah. They should have given them a light chee or cumquat. Something a little bit more exotic. A little bit more exotic or weird color.

grape. A French pear. A French pair. I've never had. These are strange. What are these? They're grapes. Green grapes. The most common grape on earth. Oh, God. Yes, they're in bed together, and I found the tonal change here to be odd. The tone of the scene was like, almost like slapsticky. What did you say these are? Like, it didn't feel like the glow of the first morning after your soap opera scene. Is it rom-com? It felt like a sitcom. Okay, so it went sitcom then for you. Okay. And it was a one or this whole scene.

Like, it just seems like a strange choice if you're selling a soap opera or a romance to not get the close-ups and the connection and the tonal sort of, oh, the glow of, you know, post-coital morning after or whatever. Right. It was odd tonally to me. But as this scene goes on, basically Brile shares with Kira. I mean, Kira starts talking about how beryl was so different from this beryl. This beryl can't get enough food. The other beryl ate two meals a day tops, that's it.

And very strict about that and very simple food. Nothing is delectable and exotic as an alva would be eaten by that beryl. So it was, you know, the differences between. But we also realize that as Kira is saying a quote from what the old beryl used to say, the new beryl sort of chimes in. and says the end of the quote. And so she's a little shocked. And he reveals, I've already done research on him.

I know a little bit about him now. So they talk a little bit more. And now Brow asks if she wants to go to early breakfast. So he hasn't had enough food. He's so hungry that I thought that maybe he was some type of alien being that wasn't even Bajoran. I thought, well, what's happening here? I thought he was going to eat, Kira.

He was so hungry. Now, that would have been a sci-fi series. That would have been a sci-fi show. The alien beams on, she falls in love with him, and then he tries to eat her. As she nibbles at her fingers. Yeah. That's why he kissed the fingers first. Yeah.

He was like, very aromatic. And then he was just sampling the wares. That would have added to this episode for me a lot. You would have raised your ratings then. Yeah, I would have. 100%. If he was a cannibalistic alien or something, sure. Okay.

Thank you. But doesn't she have to go to work? how many episodes have we seen where she gets out of bed and has to go to work? And, you know, they're at war. I can't forget that they're at war. Yes. And the writers, as I said, they try to remind us, rarely, but they do remind us there at war. This is the second in command.

She's entitled to her privacy, absolutely. But there should have been a sense of, or a line simply saying, yet you have breakfast, I've got to go to work. Right. Speaking of work, the next scene we're in ops, Bashir is not even in the medical bay. He's snooping around and trying to find out what Kira's up to. And I believe that's a meta joke. I think that scene is all mad.

Oh, yeah. It's all about. You know, I can't think that the writers weren't thinking the same thing I was thinking. But even in the scene at the end when he says, well, I could stay a little bit longer if someone's going to spill some tea. And she's like, no, doctor, go back. When he, the look that she gives him is a look of, we're together. Yeah. You can see that.

It was so familiar. Couple look. Oh, God. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. I wish Sid had played it with a little more awareness.

I, because he was playing it so straight. No, I'm not here for that. Then I almost thought, oh. Did he get the joke as much as? I didn't think it was that straight. I didn't think it was that. I think Sid was in on the joke. Maybe not. Maybe not.

But to Robbie's point, is this his only scene. This is it, right? Okay. So he could have been vacationing it up, came in. Remember, he learns his lines in the makeup trailer. And he was like, hey, and didn't. But let's remember their relationship. And let's remember our relationships. Yes.

Who helps you with your lines? Your spouse. Yeah, your partner. So he's very familiar with it. Yes, that's true. That's true. In fact, they're in the same household after, when, you know, when they go home, right, at this point, for sure. Yeah.

Okay. They may even, you know, on this day, they may have been driving together for that. All right. I will say, I'm more in Armands camp on this one, Robbie. I didn't, I didn't notice that it might have been above this one. I did think that Sid was playing the joke. And certainly, the writers were playing the joke. For those of you who aren't aware, the joke is, of course, that Sid and Ninar are married.

So, Sid wants to know what she's doing. Where's my wife? What is she doing? Why is she going? Yeah, I think it could have been punched up, dialed up a bit. That's all. Okay. For tonally, for me, if you're going to do that, do it 100%. And it felt like they were just trying to thread a needle of maybe he's serious, maybe he's not. Maybe it's not comedic or aware. But it was a good idea. It's cute for what it was. I want to go back to what Garrett said. That, her line reading and his reaction, you know, just whether she just comes. off the conversation. Absolutely. This is a couple.

This is a couple. Yes, 100%. It was so good. They do mention after after Bashir leaves, or yes, right after Bashir leaves. Kira asks about General Martak. This is about the scout ship. Oh, yes.

Thank God. There is a war. I'm back in the real world now. We're talking about the war. But only for a moment. And then Dax brings up Barile. Are you going to see Beryl tonight?

Yes. And she says, yes. In fact, Bariol has decided to have his very first orb experience. So that is the big to-do that's going to happen later. We go into the shrine. Beryl and Kira wait for the Vedic to arrive. And then he shows up, places his hand on Beryl's ear, checks his paw. It says it's very strong.

And he's ready to face the profits. And off they go to the orb box. He starts his experience, kind of like the Star Trek experience in Vegas. It is. Whenever someone checks someone's paw, it's always strong. Has anyone ever said, oh, your paw sucks. You have the worst paw ever. No one ever says that.

And thank God nobody ever grabbed quarks here. That's all I can say. Yeah. Well, they have gone, you're pa less. You're pawless. You're pauless. Yeah. So he does have the experience.

And now it's the post-orb experience. And Kira is having a little meal with. Barrio and asks him what he thought. And let's face it, Phil Banglain plays a great enlightened human being, enlightened Bjorin, because he definitely feels like he's gone through something. He's, he, at that, he's trying to process. And it seems like it has changed him or is in the process of changing him by bit. And he asked, Pira, well, what do I do with this experience?

He wants to talk about it, too. And she says, you're not supposed to talk about it. Which I never knew that. That felt like a new rule to me. I believe it is new. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, but he does say there were so many images, I can't process it.

And she says, it's not meant to be shared. And she does give them a kiss at the end of the scene, so they're getting quite cozy. And to give Nana kudos, her discomfort at hearing this, she played that, I thought, really well. Yeah. It's the, I don't want to hear this. You shouldn't be saying that. I really like the choices that she made there. Yeah. Okay. We go back to Buryle's quarters. He heads there because he says he's tired. Now, when he sat down on that chair, I don't know if either of you remember this from the episode where he died. He's in the same angle and the same lighting in the sick bay.

Really? Yes. And I was like, oh, this is so weird that they have. And I don't know if that was done intentionally. I'm guessing it probably was not. It's just coincidental. But I thought, my goodness, that was the death of. the burial from our time period that reminded me of. And now when this barial lies down, it's almost like the death of his self from the mirror universe in a way because he's had the orb experience. Putting a lot of meaning behind that, Gary. Yes, I did.

Sorry, but you went deep in the Matrix. Well, I want Armin to go deep in the Matrix. So in this scene, mirror Kira walks through the door. Surprise, surprise. Not to you, though. Not to you? And I didn't remember this episode. It's not like I read the script.

I went, of course she's here. I was expecting her to show up. My thought when she first walked through is how did she get onto the station? Well, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's what I mentioned before. Yes, we're on the same page there. You've already said it. If they can sense barile showing up in ops because there's a fluctuation and whatever,

how do they not see the intended in that same, in a different or similar fluctuation? Why wasn't security alerted? I just don't know how she got on the station. And she doesn't say it. No one asks, she didn't say, oh, I came in, snuck in through a transporter in. Yeah, it was very strange. Okay, so this is what I think happened. So she used the transporter patch.

She first put on Kira's red Bajoran uniform, okay? Then she beams from her universe. How does she know? Because he says, oh, you're wearing a Bajorn outfit. We don't have those in our world. But she has met Kira before, and I can't remember if she's ever. She's seen with Kira Warriors in the past. So she's replicated that, okay, in her universe.

She uses the little transporter that shoots her over onto, not DS9, but onto a ship that is orbiting. And then she's like, yeah. And she's like, yeah. And she's like, I'm just here to just check on you guys to see. I'm just doing a review. It's a lot of math, Garrett. It is. And then from there, she just docks and walks on.

So no one detects her. It's possible. It's possible. It's a lot of math. It is a lot of money. I know. It bumped me too. It bumped me too.

I wish she had immediately told Bariol how she did it. Something simple and quick, but if she had immediately, if he had said, oh my gosh, it didn't expect to you. I had something that masked my transport signature, right? Make up a science, something, anything. And that would have covered it because they didn't reference it. I was like, sounds like a problem. And the thing is they did reference it in the first scene. they told us this is not really something that happens.

So we already should be suspicious. Yeah, radar's up. Well, this entire scene is essentially the intendant has arrived earlier than she was supposed to. So Mirror Universe, Kira, was supposed to show up much later. But she says, I missed you. So now we know there's a relationship between Mirror Universe, Kira, and Mirror Universe, Barrio there in a in a trip toward Trist and so she tries to come on to him and he's very like well I you know I'm just tired.

And she's like well you're never tired. Well this is strange. Then she lets then she realizes, oh my gosh, it's the other cure. And instead of getting mad, she loves it. She goes, of course you would be intoxicated with her because she's me. You know, she's very, very confident in everything that she does. And so it doesn't even phase her that Barrio has been sort of swept up by this universe is Kira at all.

And it just goes back and forth and back and forth between the two. But now we realize that there is a hidden agenda here. And that is to basically steal the orb. The orb need to be stolen and taken back to their universe. It felt like a lot of blocking in this scene. You know, it was like sitting in his lap and moving around and getting up and standing. I don't know.

To me, it slowed the scene down in an episode that's already pretty slow. I realized that a lot of this performance, and I'm a huge fan of Nunaz, it's like a dance. And that's why the movement didn't bother me. It was like a dance. She's dancing around the room because dance is a familiar thing to Nanaj. She has a very famous dancing family. So I thought that, I must say, and I just said, I'm a big fan of Nanaz. I'm a little tired of her antics as the intended.

I've seen that. I've seen it. It's good. It's different. It's exciting to watch. I just, I've seen this, and I don't see an arc anywhere for the intended. I see her being fascinating, scintillating, different, exciting to watch, all of that. But I don't see a change, and that's not, you know, Nass's fault.

I want to see that character change. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my favorite scene in this episode is about to start, and that is important. Fork's bar with barryl getting drunk. And he tells everybody that he's not Vedic Barial. Just leave me alone. So clearly, his, you know, seeing the intendant has caused him some guilt or some, you know,

he's having conflict with this whole plan now. Driven into drink. Yeah. And then court comes in and tells everybody to leave him alone. Armin, I will say the pace that you had, the fact that not just the writing that your character solves this whole thing in his observation that other people should be noticing, honestly. But they gave it to you.

You did a great job with it. It's the one scene in this whole episode that I'm like, oh, Armin's talking like a normal human or a normal pharynge. Like it's just the pace of it was like you're just expressing ideas and communicating to another actor. And it was the pace felt natural. It felt real. It felt good.

And it honestly was... And not just this scene. Later, Armand's scene in the cargo bay is also super good, too. So let's not... You brought great work and I don't know if it was helped with direction or just the writing was better or I give you the credit, honestly, as an actor that you did it. Normally, I would say that I wouldn't accept the credit, but I have no memory ever of Lava giving me a note. So he shot it and I left him to his what he had to do and he left me to what I had to do. So if it worked out well, kudos to both of us.

Yeah. Yeah, I think this to me was my favorite scene or both your scenes were. One quick little trivia thing. Right in the beginning of the scene, Briles says, looks over at a couple of people staring at him at the bar. And in the episode, he says, what are you two looking at? But the script says, what are you two staring at? So this is one, one of the very rare times where they went with the dialogue that was not in the script. It could be that, you know, Philip Anglin, he's only human.

He just got the wrong word. And Judy, our script coordinator, just said, okay, fine. Maybe they made a call upstairs, who knows. But usually we have to do it exactly as written. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, Quark tells everybody to leave him alone and then starts discussing a business.

proposition with barryl here he says basically you know picture this you could be seated wearing robes and we'd have a long line of pejorans waited to pay you good money just to meet you and maybe even touch your hand shake your hand and uh beryl is not interested in this it cork asks him why and he says i'm a lot more like you than i am like vetic beryl and he goes no neither one of i don't like either one of us right now i don't like me or that guy the other beddick so Cork is clocking that he's got some, he's tormented in some way. I think that's the word he uses later. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I just, again, he's, he, this is, the orb experience is changing him from the inside. I feel this is something that is that is going through is what it is, really. And I do like the writing here though. By trade. He's in thief, right? He is. I like the writing here because Browell says, I suppose I am a lot more like you than I'll ever be like Fetik Barat.

And that's when Quark says, oh, perfect. So then we have a deal. And that's when Brow says, I'm afraid not. And that's one of the why, because right now I don't like either one of us. So I just felt it was very introspective. I like this scene. I thought it was a great scene. I did too.

I agree with you. I'm not, I didn't, I love this scene, actually. I think it's good. And I'm very flattered that in his research about Deep Space Nine and all the people on it, he also did some research on Quark and knew what sort of entity Quark was, because there really isn't all that much in this scene for him to have said what he said unless he's been watching the show for the last five years. Right.

Right. He did research. He did. I think you're right. I'm flattered by the research. I'm flattered by the research. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a nice 360 in this next scene. Yeah. It was great. On the promenade where he goes and kind of stands staring at the shrine entrance, looking around at all the people, just kind of taking in his guilt or shame or, you know, second thoughts about this whole plan. And I want to give kudos to the two ladies, the two background. who are standing on the steps of the shrine and see him and whisper to each other.

Oh, my God, that's barryal. I will talk about this later, but I'm very impressed by how the background people reacted to him. That's really very important. And they did a very good job. Yeah. So we jump into the cargo bay now. And here we go.

This is where Cork shows up to talk to Kira about how he's met her new boyfriend and says that she should basically be careful. Brace yourself and she's like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, he's a tormented one. So Kira explains that this beryl had an orb experience. Cork says that's interesting because he saw beryl hanging around the shrine for a couple of hours after he left the bar. So Kira thinks that he went there to be introspective, but Cork thinks he was there to case the entire joint to figure out how to pilfer something, probably the orb, from the shrine. and quark is clearly the smartest one on the entire station is what the note says.

Is that your note, Robbie? That's my notes. Yeah. I'll let you say it. Okay, go ahead, Robbie. No, no, Quark is clearly the smartest one on the station. You're paying attention. You're noticing behavior and suspicious things.

And I don't know why no one else is. It's very infusing because they're smart characters. They're smart people. Right. But there's only one person active. As we have mentioned. Yes. He could be anybody

where they know Burial's death like they know aliens that can morph and transform so they should be suspicious first in this with the stakes as high as they are. You could be a founder.

Yeah. Thank God for Quark is all I have to say. And it's a power that I'm very grateful that the writers took advantage of Quark's ability to judge people from his,

from his purchase of bartender. I wish they had used that more actually. It was a power that he has. It's a normal human power. It's nothing supernatural. It's the street smart character. It's in any movie or TV show.

There's always the, you know, the street smart character who knows the regular guys and can see things better than the educated professionals. And they should have taken advantage of that. Yeah. And one of the things that Nana did that when first saw it, I saw it, like yourself, I saw it twice this past week. When I first saw it, I thought, oh, there she is again. ignoring Quark altogether and showing a slight dislike for him and I thought there it is again.

But the second time I watched it, I totally changed that attitude. I went, no, she's very smart and I was doing a good job. The arc of the scene for her is that she does ignore him and then eventually what he's saying gets to her and she realizes, oh, good acting.

When an actor finds an arc in a scene that doesn't necessarily have an arc, Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Good for you. Yeah. By arc, I mean change, of course.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We're in Beryl's quarters now, and Mirakira is now dressed in Kira's clothing. And they prepare to steal the orb. So we end this scene with a close-up on Beryl's face, and he's very, very deep in thought. But the plan is in effect now. And she does ask him, did you get the comm badges? And he's got two.

He's a pickpocket. He's a thief. Yes. He's got two comb badges. Mm-hmm. And she says, call me, I guess, on the com badge the minute you have the orb. So we go to the shrine and the sanctuary candles are lit. It's beautiful.

By the way, the sets, there's a lot of new sets for the shrine and, you know, that meditation room, all that stuff. I thought the sets look great. They were beautifully finished. And I haven't seen a lot of that. Yeah. I like the lighting, which pays off in the next scene in the shrine. in the shrine. So now we're in a corridor with Kira and she's walking up to security who's blocking a doorway.

She asked to go in because she's dressed undercover as the real Kira here. But he says, no, you're going to need a level six code. It's the new protocol. And then she acts. Yeah, the war. It's also funny that this is Scott Strozier and he's a dormant at a real life, real life nightclub and he's a dormant here basically as well. That's funny.

Yeah, it's a little funny. Yeah, she acts like her shoulder is injured, asked the security guy to give her a shoulder rub, a massage. Which he does, which I was very shocked about. I'm like, really? I know. What are you doing? He starts smiling. If I were a security guard, I'd be like, I'm sorry, no.

I just can't do that. Yeah, and then, no, that's an order. Rub my shoulder. Why, I don't feel right about this. Like, it feels like the intention for a security guy who's, that series should be, as opposed to, oh, this is fun. The writers should have taken his character as seriously as all the other characters. And she should have, she's threatened.

She said, I can't make it an order as one of her lines. Yeah. She should have made it in order. I can't do it. I'm sorry, I can't do that. It's an order. Right. Okay.

I order you too. Yeah. Yeah. It's these little things that undermine the credibility of character and of the stakes, I think. Yeah, but she knocks him out. He gives a little shoulder of and she knocks him out. Then we cut inside the cargo bay where she's dragged his body. That was a nice transition that LeVar did off of starting.

I'm glad I didn't have to see her dragging his body over the bumps. Yeah. Even dragging his body over something that isn't bumpy is very difficult. I'm impressed that she was even able to do that. She's strong. Yeah, super strong. I can believe that Kira, who climbs 57 flights and is not out of breath. breath is strong, but I'm not so sure about the intended.

About the intendant. Yeah. Can I just bring up the knocking out process, which was to me very interesting. So she starts with an elbow to his midsection, which she doubles over. Then she goes to the two-fisted Captain Kirk. Captain Kirk hit on the back of his neck. And I thought, wait a minute, you're from the mirror universe. You wouldn't be fighting the way Captain Kirk does in this universe.

I'm sorry. Let's a Starfleet move. Go back to your. universe. That's funny. Anyway. That's funny. Well, in the shrine, Kira catches the real Kira, catches Burial inside the shrine,

and she admits that she was fooled, but Quirk was not fooled. And then Mirr Kira shows up. So now we've got Nana playing both characters in the same scene, which I always like those scenes when the actor gets to play two parts in the shot. Now, my question is as a union official, ex-union officials. Yes. When she does that. Yes.

The union says you have to be paid for two characters. And I don't know. I have to ask her someday whether she was indeed paid for two characters. I wonder if that rule was... You do now, but isn't that a relatively new, like in the last 10 years or something? No, I think it went into effect after the Paddy Duke show. Oh, interesting. Wait.

Yeah, I don't think that that's often paid, to be honest. Sags should get involved in that because... That's two different characters. Armand, so what about when Michael Keaton in the feature film Multiplecity played seven of himself, he would be paid seven times? I would imagine that there's a clause. What's it called? It's been a couple years.

Like overscale or something? Not overscale. Schedule F. Schedule F is a tier where you get paid so much money that certain principles are no longer followed because you're getting so much money. Oh, I see. So I would see. I would say that since he had to be a Schedule F performer, that that was overlooked. The rules all get bent out of shape for Schedule F performance.

But I would also imagine, Garrett, and this is getting to the weeds of contract law, but if you're paid over scale and then this rule does apply, that you would only be paid scale for those additional characters. Oh, depending on what your agent negotiated. Your agent is negotiating for two characters. Yes, they could negotiate. They can negotiate. I mean, they could say, okay, who's getting through?

plenty for the first character and we'll take scale for the second. That seems like a normal negotiation. But if you had a very aggressive agent, he could say, no, you want this, we're going to negotiate for both these characters. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. What I liked about the lighting in the shrine scene is that when she came in, it was dim enough so that we, it was sort of a surprise. Yeah. That we have both act, we have one actor playing two parts in the same scene. Yeah. Mirror, Kirill's scene to tell Kira that he was just using her that, you know, he, mirror Kira basically, the intendant wants beryl to, to crush Kira's soul, like basically. Right.

Mirror, or the intended is like, tell her, it was all fake. You don't love her. You don't care about her, basically. That's what she said. Very soap opera. Very soap opera. Very soap opera. But Mira Kira wasn't even supposed to be here.

Mirikira is supposed to be the transporter pad waiting to get out of, you know, She's not supposed to be here at all. So this is definitely vengeful, spiteful, soap opery sort of action for her to be here. Yeah. Which she's done plenty of. Yes, we're used to that. A lot. So it didn't shock any of us to see her here at all.

They have talked about this in other scenes about going back to their universe and being able to predict the future, which the orb experience should tell him that doesn't happen with the orb. But that they are planning to steal this so that they can become gods. in the sense that we can predict the future. But we know from our own experiences of the orb and from his experience in this orb that predicting the future is not something you get from the orb.

You get analogies. Yeah. Well, he grows a conscience. He shoots, he phases mirror Kira, who goes down. And then Kira from our universe has a conversation with Mirabariah. And this is where Barrio says,

just so you know, when I looked into the orb, you and I had a life and a family on Bayjore. But he says, well, it might have worked for a little bit, but eventually I'd find some way to screw it up. So I think I'm better off back in my universe. And Kira says, okay, well, then go. And that was it.

That's the beam out. So if I may, I want to go back a little. I've carped about a lot of this episode, but this is the number one carp. Oh, boy. Before the intendant shows up, Kira says to Burial, you shouldn't do this.

And he says, I've already gone too far to change. I can't stop. I've already gone too far. And what that means is I've gotten into so much cahoots with the intendant, and I've come this far. I can't stop. Even if you're holding a gun, I can't stop. And then he shoots her and says, I'll be able to make this up.

Yes. And I went, you just told me you've gone too far. Right. If you've gone too far, this can't happen. This making up is not going to happen. No, it's not. The mere fact that he says, I'll be able to fix this later, I went, yeah, in post, maybe, but that was when I went, no, no, this episode is not. It's not my favorite.

Okay, well, then how about this, Armand? Do you think that when he's saying that, he's basically saying, look, I'm just going to, I'm going to sacrifice myself. I know I'm dead at this point. But that's not what he says. He says, we'll be able, I'm not in that much trouble. I'll be able to fix this later. The one thing we've learned about the intended is, she holds a grudge.

Yes. Yes. Is he trying to let this universe cure down easily because he shared, you know, intimacy with time with her? I don't know. I don't even care. I don't like them. I don't care.

And I don't buy it. Let's not. Okay, fine. Let's move on. I'm with you, Armin. Like, it makes no sense. I feel like, and with all due respect to the writers of Star Trek in general, and this and Michael Taylor, who I think is super talented, whose name is on the script.

I don't think it does service to these characters or the intelligence of the audience. Quark is the only one that seems to have any intelligence in this episode. And Jake, for not being here at all. Yeah. Exactly. Jake stayed away on purpose. right, okay. I read this script. I'm not going to have anything. I'm not going to have any. You take my scene out now. Okay. Let's talk about theme slash lessons slash moral.

If there is one to be had in this episode. Oh, there's a moral. All right. Go ahead. There's a law. We'll hear from you. We'll go Robbie and I'll go meet. Okay. So the moral is don't be deceived by appearances. Okay. Oh, okay. Great. Great. I wrote down romantic fantasy can be foolish for an episode. and for characters. Yeah, you can get lost in a fantasy and just look like a fool. And that's, I think, the lesson for me.

What about you? I guess my lesson would be if you're writing Star Trek, do 90% sci-fi, 10% soap opera. Yes, that's a good lesson too. But my other lesson was just do the right thing, which he kind of does in the end. He doesn't allow, you know,

Miracira to do anything to this universe's cure. But it's antithetical to all the characters. You're right. Yes. It's against his character. It's against the intendant's character. Yeah, that's very floppy. Our Patreon poll winner for a theme slash lesson slash moral of this episode is submitted by Tim Newmark.

And that would be, how could an episode like this possibly have a theme? Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Tim. Honorable mention for a theme and moral is submitted by Martin. And that is, the past is seductive, but it can't be reclaimed. That's a fair, yes, a good lesson. Thank you, Martin. So here's a question. I'm sorry. A question, and I don't have an answer. I'm looking for advice here. Is she taken with the new beryl or is she taken with the old memories of the old beryl?

I think a little of both. It's kind of mashed up together into a fantasy imaginary version of who he is. I would agree with Robbie, but my percentage would be 20% old bireal, 80% fascinated with new beryl. Yeah, because this guy's totally different. Because he's different, Garrett. Yes, because he's different. You don't know what he's going to do. She's like, oh, this is a different beryl. This is the kind of beryl, I wish the old bariah was.

So I do feel that. Is that why Quark tells her I'm happy that the two of you are together? Because, and he does say to her, you know, he was controlled and controlling. Is Quark happy for the fact that she's found some. someone she could physically be attracted to. We get that in the opening scene. And also someone who matches her demeanor. Yes, I think so.

Mm-hmm. I think so. Wow, this is such a controversial episode to talk about this, isn't it? All right, that's the end of our podcast. Thank you for everyone for tuning in. And thank you to Armin for hosting with us again, yet again. Thank you, Armin. Thanks, Armin.

My pleasure. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. everyone else. We will see you when we recap and discuss the episode statistical probabilities with Terry. And yeah, so for Patreon and Patron, stay tuned for your bonus materials for everyone else. See you later. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thanks, everybody.