The Delta Flyers - Revulsion

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is Revulsion. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.Revulsion:Torres and the Doctor investigate a distress signal from a hologram on an alien craft; Ensign Kim and Seven of Nine become friends.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller.And a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, and Kate Mulgrew.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Mike Devlin, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Amber Eason, Lucas Shuck, Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Joshua McHenry, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, John Mann, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, and Melissa LauAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Ann Harding, Laura Swanson, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, James Cottrell, Jenna Appleton, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Michelle Maroney, Michael "Klink" Klinckhardt, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Joseph Lanning, Melissa A. Nathan, Captain Jak Greymoon, Yousuf Khan, and David Wei LiuThank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager. Your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Hello, Robbie. Well, hello there. How are you? Hello, I'm okay. I'm trying to get to where you're facing. Oh, yeah. Look at you. You got a little beard coming in. A little something coming in. For an Asian, it's pretty happy, you know. Well, now that we're, you know, now that we're retired from Starfleet, we can do whatever. Don't have to keep the, you know.

We can let our eyebrows grow. Why don't people's eyebrows just keep growing? Some people do, Garrett. Seriously? Have you seen people like with really long eyebrows? Some people need to trim their eyebrows, let's just say. Yeah, they get a little shaggy. Would it grow as long as, as being, you know, past someone's chin, sort of like? Like some people need to trim their ear hairs, their nose hairs, their eyebrow hairs. Yes. Do you do all those things yourself? You know, personal grooming is not something we discuss on the podcast.

That's bonus material, okay? Personal grooming. So only our Patreon patrons are allowed to hear whether or not we clip our nose hair. Get to hear all of our personal grooming stories. They're fascinating. They really are worth it. So I would recommend become a Patreon patron for personal grooming anecdotes with Tom and Harry. I only have one thing to say to that.

I'm going to give it a George T.K. Oh, my. After hearing that. Okay. So we've had a bit of a break. We haven't had... You and I have not hung out together in a few weeks because you've been busy. I've been busy with running around doing conventions.

Conventions are back, a sort of kind of. Kind of sort of. I could, yeah. And, you know, you would have gone to the Vegas convention if you were not directing in Canada, right? If you happened to be in the U.S., I think. If I weren't directing, like, even if I were directing in the States, it's just to fly on a weekend in the middle of filming is really hard.

And by the way, I think that Friday night, the Vegas convention Friday night, I shot till five in the morning. Like, I was shooting all night. Yeah. So I couldn't have done. No, you would have been a zombie completely, right? So that wouldn't have happened. Yeah.

But I'm sad. I missed it. I heard Roxanne was there. Yeah, Roxanne was there and Beltran and myself. So the Voyager. And Jerry Taylor was there. Jerry Taylor was there. She wasn't in our panel, but she was there.

It's been, let's face it, a couple of decades since I've seen her. So it was so nice to reconnect with her. That's awesome. So the panel, the Voyager panel, the 50th anniversary panel of, sorry, not 50th, the 25th anniversary of Voyager panel. What are you doing? I just gave us 25 more years. By the way, we look really good for a 50-year reunion.

I got to say. For 79, Robbie, you look great. Exactly. Yeah, I was so sad because, as you know, 2020 was the year of the 25th anniversary of Voyager, and all the celebrations were canceled. I know. Right?

Everything was canceled. So now the Vegas Trek convention this year, 2021, what we were hoping was going to be, you know, in honor of the 25th of Voyager, but that didn't happen. It was a very small Voyager panel. It was just myself, Chiquet, and Torres, your on-screen lady.

So that's it, the three of us. So no Janeway. And then Jerry Ryan canceled at the last minute because of production for Picard, not allowing her to go to the convention, something along those lines for safety purposes. And it was a panel. with the minorities of Voyager.

Oh, the diverse and inclusive cast of Voyager. That's great. There were no Caucasians in attendance of this panel. Maybe watching, but not actually on stage. Yeah, so it was the diverse, ethnically diverse, voyager panel. So it was good. We had a fun time.

Do you hear the, but you were missed? The police cars coming for me? Yeah. You hear them? Oh. Yeah. Sorry, I'm about to be taken. you are you've been arrested yeah goodness i live in a very active part of vancouver we're 26 floors

up we're way off the street yeah but it's just it's sort of like the the area where if there's trouble on one side or the other of town they have to go past us so we get all the excitement it's very exciting i thought it was your irish mafia connections actually yes that's not it it's the crime family i'm a part of exactly the mcneedles the stuff Starfleet crime family. The Starfleet, straight from Dublin, straight from Ireland, the Starfleet crime family. We're going to starfleet you right now if you don't shape up in front of us. That sounds.

Can we just do that painful? I like that. We're going to starfleet. We're going to star. Why do we sound like pirates? I don't know. It turned into pirates. It is a little.

Everything sort of turns into pirates when I do an accent. It just. No, that was actually the best. accent I've heard you do. Oh, really? Your Irish accent. That was really good. What were you basing it on? Was there a character on you? I was basing it on you. No. Oh, my God. For the longest time, Lucky Charms commercials were how I based my Irish commercial. I don't know that that's the most authentic Irish culture. Yellow hearts, green clovers. Is it, no, that's not the most authentic? Okay,

what about Irish Spring commercials? Like Irish Spring So. No, that wasn't that Cape Mulgrew? Didn't she do Irish Spring commercials? You're joking. No, you're making a joke. Are you being serious? I am not. Oh, my God. I want to see this.

She was in one. Please. Back in the 70s, way back in the day. I love those commercials. Yeah. I wanted to be Irish because of an Irish spring commercial. So she's in it? We should find that out for sure.

But I'm pretty sure she did Irish spring commercials. Yes. Oh, my goodness. This is exciting me now. I know. I want to check this out. So much is happening in this episode of the Delta Flyers. So much is happening.

Oh, my God. Okay, let's go watch this episode. Okay, without further ado. What is the episode? Oh, it's called revulsion. I should just tell you that. Revulsion. Revolition.

Revolion. Okay. Revolion in French. Revoltion. Yeah. Revolution. Yeah. Um, okay.

Revolition. Yeah, revulsion. Let's go watch it. I'm very interested because the title is compelling. I'm also excited. we're both not wearing hats today. I know. It's very unusual.

That is unusual. Usually one of us is wearing a hat or both. And today, no. We'll see you soon, everybody. Hey, everyone. Ravi and I are back from watching Revolition. Yes, we are. Revolition.

Oh, my. I was really surprised at so many things about this episode. Me too. I really. Go ahead. I was going to say it was just a very, it's not a title that I remembered. So it did not ring any bells. And it's actually a really important episode in a lot of ways.

It is. Yeah. So I'm surprised I didn't remember it. Yeah. And I did not remember that Lisa Klink wrote this episode. And I did not, though, excuse me. And I did not know this was the directorial debut of, producer Kenneth Biller. Can Biller directed this episode? I know. I forgot that too. I did not remember

that he was the one, you know, this was his very first directing. Yeah. Assignment on our show. I don't remember if he directed many more. I do remember him wanting to direct. I remember first season with Ken, yeah, you know, talking with him about it, but I can't remember if he directed more or not. I think after he directed this, he realized how time consuming and how much of a pain of the butt it is to be a director. And I don't think he did many more after. I don't think he did any more after this. I don't think he did any more Voyager.

I think he went on to direct on his other show. Yeah. He's gone on to a very successful writing career. And I think he's directed a bunch. He did a show called E-Ring a few years after Star Trek. It was after Voyager. It was right after Enterprise went off the air. And Mary Howard, our line producer, and Marvin Rush, R Usher, DP,

and a bunch of other Voyager crew went on to work with Ken on E-Ring and I think he directed episodes. And I can't remember, I don't remember what that show was about, but I remember Ken being involved in it. And it was, and I guess it was a hit,

you know, it ran for a couple of years. Yeah. But that was, it was nice to see all, it was the, that was the show I remember a lot of our Star Trek friends, like Marvin Rush and all those guys, Mary Howard, everybody sort of had been on Star Trek shows for so long that I was glad to see them starting to get out and do other kinds of shows.

And that was a Ken Biller show. So he was a big part of our crew moving into transitioning out of Star Trek into their new careers. Yeah. Yeah. Leel Endorser, did you remember him from seeing him in this episode? Is he in Saving Private Ryan? what is he in he's he's in something else that yeah that was really big during the 90s i do remember that so i'm blanking as to what it was was he in saving private right let's look it up let's look

up his uh leeland is imdib let's look up his imdib and see what it says or bone collector saving private ryan yeah oh good call yeah good call i thought he was in saving private ryan you're really good with that and er that's the big i'm impressed i'm impressed That's the big things. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, he was great. I thought he was really, really good.

To play unstable, he did it perfectly. So good job. He did great. Yeah. So let's, before we, without any further ado, let's do our poetry synopsies, please. Here we go. Let's do our poetry synopsies. I'll start with my limerick.

Sure. Here we go. Tuvok gets a promotion. Love. of Balana Box at the notion. HD25 doesn't like organic sweat. Seven is someone that Harry wants to pet. The doc doesn't mind organic commotion.

Nice. There you go. Good job, Rebecca. So that was actually really kind of cool. There's some funny stuff in there. Okay, here we go with my haiku. It's a lot of the story in there. did you got every bit okay this is this is much more abstract than that but here we go here is my

haiku here's my haiku for revulsion a lone survivor kim is awkward with seven it's a long story oh very deep yeah it's funny the awkward with seven i tried to work that into the the interior limerick i felt like awkward was a word that needed to be used yes So I picked up the slack for you. Yes, thank you. Okay. Oh my goodness. Yeah, so we said written by Lisa Kling who was very prolific in these middle years.

Yes. I feel like Lisa was on, her name was on every other script. Oh, my God. It's unbelievable. I don't remember her writing this script at all. I mean, I talk about this episode. I talk about that scene in the mess hall with seven of mine at many different conventions. I've talked about that, that me turning down seven after she, you know, basically said.

Let's do it. And then I'm like, no. And I always talk about like, those damn writers. And little did I know. I've been basically saying, damn you, Lisa clink. But, you know, and I feel bad. It was Lisa.

It was Lisa. Yep. She protected you. Just like Tom tried to protect you with his advice. All right. All right. So we open up in some mystery ship. Yeah.

And there's this data-looking character. Call them crazy data. H-D-25. H.T. 25. Dejaron or DeGiren or something? He says his name. What? H.D. 25. I thought he's just HD 25. He has a name name. I thought they gave him a name. Oh, wow. Okay. But I wrote down HG25 and all my stuff. Okay. Well, my first thing that I wrote down is shocking opening scene of the guy being in the blood, right? I'm like, very gory, very gory for track. I don't remember that. I mean, I'm sure some parents were probably freaking out with their kids sitting.

that next to them watching that so well this is by season four we had gotten you know we'd done a bunch of borg stuff here we are in season four the show was much darker like the board influence on our show and the species eight 472 and just a lot of the stuff that's happened um i think Marvin started lighting the show a little different writers started writing more edgy things so this is being that gory scene at the top dragging the dead the dead body with all the blood i'm not surprised I'm not surprised to see it because that was the direction we were going. That's where the show heading. Yeah, I'm not upset about that.

I am upset about the fact that you see after the initial drag, there's another shot where he's now dragging him across another floor. And now there's no blood. It's like, where's the blood now? I know. And then later, he's trying to clean the blood off and clearly props or set, you know, whoever's in charge of dressing that set and putting that blood on. there. It's not even coming off. It's just paint. I understand. And I guess there's no way

they could have put something on there that would have wiped off easier because it just, I don't know, it just looked like it'd been caked on for years. I think that it's funny because I think that on Star Trek, I'll get into some of this as we talk to our recap. But I do think because the whole Star Trek crew, the props department, the art department, everybody, they were used to doing these sort of sci-fi fantasy stories and aliens and everything that when it came to the things that were just like like normal like blood like what you're talking about like if you if it was a cop show and they were doing a gory scene like that the props people they would all be used to oh well blood needs to react like this like it wipes up

it's you know making things natural and realistic is what they would do on another show a normal show. But on a sci-fi show, you're not used to making things natural. You're used to making them unnatural and alien in some way. And so I just don't think there was a, there wasn't a radar with all of our departments. And even, I feel like even with us as actors, there wasn't a radar to constantly be going, wait a minute, are we, is this how things would really work? Mm-hmm. Yeah, anyway. That, hey, that's a good theory. I mean, that makes sense. If you're, if you are a crew member on a sci-fi show on a Star Trek show and you're used to making things always weird supernatural yeah different than and just different than the norm then all the sudden you got

a scene where you're kind of doing a who done it like who killed these people it's just random regular blood then they're like oh I don't know what to do so maybe that's what happened well they're just not even paying attention to it because the normal stuff like it's it's we've talked about this before like when we go into a ship with our phasers drawn we had we had no tactical advisor we had no one saying here's how you would use a weapon correct how you would sort of enter a room yeah enter a room leapfrog each other cover each other yeah you know we didn't have that we did none of that we made that oh yeah we made that up just made it up yeah yeah well i will say that opening scene in the mess hall where you're telling the story

about tuvac where you're roasting tuvok that was a nice interchange between us very kind of natural, you know, dialogue. My only concern or my only critical eye, you know, my only critique, let me say that. My only critique about that scene is when I impersonate Tuvok, I sound like George decay. I sound like Sulu. I'm doing a Sulu impersonate. Why didn't I do that more, you know, like Tim Russ? Because Tim Russ is very measured and very drawn out. You know, he doesn't speed through his lines, right? I should have did more of a live long and prosper, you know, more of a like two-vaki sounding catered, but I didn't do that. Interesting. Interesting. So that bugged me. Did that pull you out at all? Did you know? No, I came away from that scene like you said. It would felt very

naturalistic, very authentic. And I realized we never have scenes like that. All of us are like that where we're sitting around. No. Telling funny stories where we're laughing. It was such a refreshing, the script was refreshing. The subject matter was refreshing. Yes. It was, I wrote down, we don't often have these kinds of just character scenes, where we're talking about our affection for each other. Yeah. Not about like our job performance or any of that, but just those kind of little human anecdotes that that characters share. Yeah. And it just, it felt very natural. I felt like, was really happy with the way that that whole thing came off. I thought it was very authentic. I love the laughter seemed genuine. The way that Ken shot it without cutting into close-ups all

around and just letting the shot sort of move around behind all of us. It was great. It was really great. I agree. And I think part of the reason why this scene stands out as sounding so much more natural is the lack of techno babble in the dialogue. We're not talking about recalibrating any EPS relays, anything that, you know, most normal human beings are not going to be talking about, right? So I think that really helped it as well. You know what just occurred to me, too, is that one reason I think that often on a Star Trek show that you don't have those extended long sort of overlapping dialogue and laughter and stuff is because there's a lot of characters who aren't human. Correct. Like, you know, that kind of interaction is a very human. Human interaction.

It's messy, it's kind of overlapping, whereas with the non-human characters, scenes naturally sort of stop, and then you get into that alien rhythm for a minute, whether it's a Vulcan or a Cunning on or a hologram or whatever it is. So it was nice to see such a familiar human moment, I think, with Harry and Tom and the captain. Yeah, it was great. And also very impressed with, you talked about the camera work that went on in the beginning story that you're telling. But even after that, the whole thing where Torres walks out first and she crosses camera and then it doesn't follow her. It waits for you to run after her into the hallway, right, into that scene where now, and I love this scene because now it's something is tracking finally. it's not every not every episode is independent of the next episode yeah now it just picks up where what happened last well you guys are out in space she says i love you you say nothing back right nothing and then you come up with this well clearly you were oxygen deprived and you probably didn't mean it you know and you're being all defensive and trying to protect your own feelings and i'm trying to give her and out like maybe you didn't really mean yeah yeah yeah what you said was here's your chance to say you know just kidding this is my mulligan yes yeah definitely yeah tom says it's been three days since you said you know what you said and right um and i love but by the way so she she

says oh yeah well just because i said i love you doesn't mean that you have to say anything and then tom cuts her off he goes oh shut up grabs her any kisses or yeah in this passionate kiss great shot pushing around um and your hand looked like it was about to do something making was like did he just grab her and no your hand was coming up to grab her hand but it looked like you sort of grabbed her hand Yeah, pressed her romantically against the wall. I thought what you were trying to cop a field, but you weren't. You were actually grabbing the hand. It was just, uh, it was a, it was, you know, honoring her Klingon side with a little aggressive

male, female interaction. And he kissed her. And then, of course, the doctor shows up. Yeah, the doctor. By the way, ruined the whole mood. Tom never still never said, I love you. No, he still didn't say that. You still didn't do it.

You avoided it by just being aggressively kissy. You were like, watch this. Yes, you avoided it. I did notice, so when Doc interrupts and then she takes off, you know, kind of flustered and she takes off, I did notice, I don't know whether it was Ken or whether it was us as actors, but when Bob came out, I sort of took a couple steps after Tom takes a couple steps after Balana and then turns around to the doctor. Yeah, Doc, what do you want?

Yeah. And then I sort of glance back a couple times to see. referring back to her where she left where balana went and i don't know if that was ken or me but those are the kind of things i think for the audience that like those little details they're usually not scripted they're most often not even directed it's the kind of stuff where like as an actor you've got a track you know where's my character's point of view what what is important to me right now that's totally right you know and where is this story where's the the most important value of the story it wasn't with the doctor in that moment it was in it was in it was

what was going on with uh yeah so i like i did like you referring back to where she left but then you also added this very small move where you you bring your hand up to your to your to your mouth and it's almost like you're like savoring her kiss or something like yeah you're like i remember how your lips felt and so i thought wow did biller to probably i'm going to guess that biller did not direct you and that you had done your homework and you were very present in the moment and you you kind of kept the before and the after going on in that scene. So I'm going to say that, right? I mean, would you agree?

I would think so. Directors rarely give those kind of nuances and details. That's what I love about being a director now is watching what the actors bring. Yes, yes. I love seeing those nuances and details. It's the kind of stuff you can't plan as a director. That's true. That's true.

But I will say the caveat out there for all of you aspiring actors is keep it simple, though. You know, when you try to add way too many pieces of business with your blocking and you and then now it just gets messy. It's like what you're just adding stuff just to add stuff. And that's not good either. So there's a fine line right there, right? A sweet spot. Agreed. Okay.

Agreed. Yeah. So the doctor says to Tom, I asked the, the captain about, you know, who's got advanced medical training and you're, you're the best one. So you're, you got three shifts a week. And Paris is like, wait, I'm the nurse. And I love where he says, well, if that's the title you prefer, if that's the title you prefer, three duty shifts a week, which I thought was. Right.

I thought I was a nurse years before. I thought it was that first season before a Kess took over. I thought that was it. I didn't, I did not remember going back to nursing. You served a second duty shift, right? Or duty. Double duty. Yeah.

Double duty. Exactly. I will say this, though. When he says to you, he goes, Mr. Paris, I'll expect, what did he say? I'll expect you with a tricorder and a smile, right? And so I immediately thought, oh, my gosh, if Rebecca could make a small Paris with just a naked Paris with his privates kind of blurred out, holding just the tricorder and a smile

and popping that on the screen. Yes, that to me was. Nothing else. Pretty funny. Yeah. Funny. All right. So Chocote is talking to Harry next in the mess hall.

and says Harry's got to work with seven to work on upgrading the Astronomics lab or no making creating the astrometrics that's what it is. Yes. And this is another tracking moment, right? Because Kim has been backhanded by seven with his

awkward, his ASF, his awkward Starfleet fall, you know, in the prior episode, was that right? Or two episodes ago? A couple episodes back. Yes. So that tracks here too. Go ahead. You were saying. Yeah. So Chikote says, you need to go do this. And, yeah, this is the beginning of Seven's new set, the astrometrics lab,

which becomes a regular, you know, a whole new place that we filmed lots of scenes. Yeah. And obviously it gave Seven a place to work and to be that wasn't on the bridge. But it also gave all of us a place, gave the writers a place to write new, you know, set new scenes and new stories. So this is the beginning of that. right um and then we we cut back to the bridge and there's a message from hg 25 who is an isomorphic projection right right or a hologram or a hologram basically going help me help me exactly um and again for those we've said it before but when we're shooting the scenes on the bridge there is nothing up there

There's no projection. So you're just looking, everybody's acting. We probably, I'm sure we had not even seen this actor perform the role. So we were just sort of guessing it. And you're reacting to a script supervisor, reading the word. There's also a good chance that that character wasn't even cast yet. Sometimes that'll happen. We'll be shooting a scene.

And it's with an actor that hasn't even been, you know, if we don't even know who it is yet, right? So, yeah, he pleads, the doctor pleads with Janeway. Well, actually, the doctor sort of starts acting like he's the captain. Yeah, he starts designing the whole rescue. And he's like, I'm going to go and I'm going to do this. I think Janeway says something like, I don't remember giving you the command to go do this stuff. Yeah. I don't know if I'm not, I'm not sure if I'm okay with that.

I'm a little bothered by how human he's become so quickly. Like he's very, it's interesting because he's, he's become human very quickly. seven becomes human way quickly in this episode, I think. Yes. Her human awareness is huge in this episode. Okay. Whereas up until now, she's been playing sort of, I don't understand, I don't get it, I don't.

And now of a sudden, she understands all human things. Anyway, we'll get to that. We'll get to that. So distress call, doctor says he's the best person to go on this away mission slash rescue mission. And if Janeway is worried, no problem. I will take Torres. She knows how to deal with my emitter.

Let's just, let's make this happen, right? Yeah. Then we have a scene where Kim heads to the cargo bay to find seven. And it was, for me, ah, you know, this scene, I felt like it could have been filmed a little bit more creepy or scary, you know, because she sort of startles him. But not in the way, like, I wouldn't have filmed it that way. I wouldn't have had her climb down that side stair, that side ladder, you know, I would have had her just pop up right behind Kim where he turns around. He's like, whoa, you know, where he's freaked out.

It was just, I don't know what happened there. But any thoughts in your, in your. Yeah, I don't know. I think there was definitely an attempt to make it sort of suspenseful and creepy. And, you know, Harry, I would guess, he's very nervous. I mean, we saw when Chucote. gave him the assignment that he was nervous. Chukotay asked him, clearly he's

nervous here. But it's funny. Like, I feel like the audience is a bit ahead of this story, honestly. Okay. I feel like there's been a clear sense in the scenes that we've seen Harry and Sevenen that Harry's got a crush on her. Like, I think the audience is way

ahead of this. So to play into this suspense that he's afraid of her because she hid him, I don't know that I, I don't know that I buy that as much as he's got a crushing her. Well, no, where do you, where do you come? How do you come to that conclusion that he has a crush on her from before this, though? Is it because? I feel like the way he was friendly. I just feel like the way that the scenes played out with you and Jerry Ryan when you were in that earlier

episode where she hits him on the back of the skull. Right. It felt like there was flirtiness going on. It's just, you know, well, okay, you did mention that when she showed up in with Jane, when Janeway shows up with seven in engineering and Torres and Kim are there. And Kim sort of smiles like, you remember seven. Kim has a smile in your reactions from that, that episode, your video reactions that you did for our Patreon patrons, you mentioned, you're like, wow, you're really excited to see her, Harry or Garrett. But what it was was I was trying to play nervous laughter.

You know what I'm saying? How people like will laugh when they're super nervous. And the nerves were that, this is a borg. You know, so that, so that was my initial way I was tackling that. I totally took it when I watched the episode. Yeah. And maybe because I know the, you know, the longer story of Harry and seven and all that. But to me, I feel like the audience knows Harry, whether they've seen it or whether it just seems like the move, the move.

You know, he's the innocent young guy. Yeah. Who's fallen for some girls before. Yeah. And here he is sort of getting lined up. with seven a number of times, I feel like that's going to be the story they're going with. So to me, the suspense in Cargo Bay doesn't work. Like, I think she could have just turned around and you could have just been walking in.

It could have gone right into the scene. I don't think it needed anything more than that. Okay. Sure. So I agree with you, but for different reasons. I agree with you that, like, I think she could have just turned around and he could have been there. and right i definitely think you and jerry both played kind of the crossover from the last

episode where she you know there was some apprehension yeah but it's apprehension and excitement at the same time you know what i mean he's like excited because he's got kind of feels a crush about this girl yeah but he's apprehensive because she's dangerous but it's okay i thought it was great i mean i don't i don't think it's a problem no no it's not a problem i just wanted to be clear for all the listeners out there where my intentions were. My intentions were not to show any type of preference or crush any type of crushing on seven at all until this episode after we were forced to work together when I started getting more used to her. She's not backhanding me and that's when I fall for her kind of thing. You know, I felt like this was the pivotal episode where, wow, I really do like her

more than that. Yeah, I think it comes out in the writing explicitly here. But I think it's I feel It's hinted at before. Oh, I do. Yeah, for sure. Okay. I feel like Harry's been sort of taken with her. I feel like since she came on the ship. And it's like that excitement and that nervousness that happens around, you know, whatever

an experience for a character or a person might be of like, oh, this is, it scares me a little, but it's also, you know, attracts me a little. And so I'm conflicted. Okay. think this story overall with Harry and Seven in this episode is great for both the characters. The only problem I have is I think she's far too human aware in this episode for where we are with her character. And I think it would have been more effective if Harry had been the one that was introducing her to this humanity. And then maybe at the very end, she takes a big leap forward.

And that's when he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I, you know. Yeah. And that scene in the mess hall, for example. But up until then, it would have been interesting if he had been the one that was sort of, here's how humans are and teaching her more. Because I just thought she was, she knew it all way too early. Okay. Yeah. So it would have, okay, that makes sense. It would have flowed a little bit better, right? More organic. And it's interesting because you have issues with how human aware she is. And I have issues with how human aware the doctor has become in this episode. It's like, what's the heck? And that brings us to the next scene in the shuttle with the doctor in Torres, where he is, what is he, is he jealous of Paris or is he just anti-team Tom?

What is he doing? It's like all this, he turns really, really, this is not, this is not what his program is meant to do, I feel. Like, I was, I thought this was so anti- teasing her or it, yeah, it just doesn't seem right. It was just, it was almost like he felt that he was going to try something new and Bob Ricardo, you know, like, oh, well, you know, I'm so advanced now that I can do this now. And Ken Biller just watched it and said, okay, that's fine.

It's in the writing, you think? Oh, I think it's all in the writing. Well, actually, sorry, it is in the writing. But I felt like it was too, like he would have been more deadpan in the delivery of those lines as opposed to, you know, being that he was such a master craftsman in trying to get under the skin of Torres, you know, in a way. Yeah. And I think that if he was more monotone and more sort of, you know, just computer like, you know, it would. have been better. Yeah,

it did, it did seem like some of the, the character elements in this episode were inconsistent. Yes. Even though as an episode,

like often happens on our show, the episode works for itself in a bubble, but when you look at it in the bigger context, like, you know,

yeah, I agree with you. Some of the doctor stuff was a little too human right for where he's at. Did he come off as jealous? Did he come off as jealous at all in that scene to you?

I don't know. It just felt like, um, It felt sort of like teasing, and I wasn't sure why the teasing, you know. Right. Because he has nothing invested in Tom Paris or Bono Taurus. Exactly. That's why I was confused.

Like, why are you, where is this coming from, you know, in a way? So, all right. Okay. So small inconsistencies. But I did like that Boulano defended me and said that I'm super responsible. Yes, she got a little triggered when he was, you know, teasing her. you just like a good girlfriend would and you know by the way i got i got to say that the shuttle was much darker than we normally shoot the show yes it was very dark and moody again this season

three into season four transition yeah uh our show got a lot darker yeah um one thing i didn't like if you look at the shuttle scene the starfield is not moving and they probably just put the static star field outside the window when you see torres you know you see stars behind her right they're not moving and they should all interesting because they are en route to the other ship right they haven't yeah they're they're heading to the other ship so we had a starfield that was just still that's what that's what they used in this scene we had a starfield that slowly moved on a track yeah and then we had green screen if it was supposed to be warp stars if we were right at warp or impulse so they should have green screened it and put that in in post and they didn't do that

They just kept the static. There's some holes in the script here or inconsistencies. Let's say that. Inconsistencies. It was probably budget. They probably didn't have the room to put the moving star field because that was a big piece of equipment. Sometimes they do that. There were a lot of inconsistencies.

If you go back through and look at the stars outside, sometimes they should be moving and they're not, sometimes they're, you know, things are not. We should see something outside the windows that we don't. Yes. And it's just for money. usually. Right. Right. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though?

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And one thing I noticed immediately was as they start walking through the ship, obviously it's supposed to be spooky and scary. We don't know where ND or HD-25 is. We know he's killed the guy in the teaser. Yep. But one thing I noticed was the flickering lights. And this has come up recently on sets with me because a lot of movie lights now have gone to LED panels,

LED fluorescence. They don't use incandescent lights anymore. They don't use everything's LED on a set. Well, back in the 90s when we did Star Trek, Correct. They were still-0 LEDs. They were all incandescent lights, which means when you flicker them on and off, they kind of glow up and go down and glow up. And there's a little bit of a like up and down. On an LED, it's either on or off or it's off. There's no, there's no analog, there's no analog feel to the light. And I was watching the scene thinking, oh, yeah, of course

there were incandescent lights in the 90s. That's why it's got a cool. It's this flickery thing that I tried to do last week on my show. But I have all LED lights. And so they just go, on and off. And I was like, it's not as spooky. Yeah.

I was like, yeah, do we have any incandescent light? Nope. Everything's LED. But then I started, then today, I started going, wait a minute. In the future, they're not going to have incandescent lights. Like, this is. is a spaceship they'd be beyond whatever it comes after LED lights they are so far LED would be the second

generation and now would be the 80th generation of lighting right so yes but here we were on this alien spaceship and you could see the incandescent sort of it was cool it was scary but not sci-fi's yes oh good catch yeah that was pretty funny uh so hz 25 there's snooping around and he reappears and he comes over with a hammer and we think oh god it's going to get gory and then he hears torres say something about the doctor being a hologram and he disappears and the hammer falls down yeah where that come from they look around and he reappears in front of them now and he he says to the doctor oh you're an isomorph like myself right and uh And I think the doctor says something like, well, we use the term hologram.

Yeah. And then he turns to Torres and he says, and you're an organic. And I like her line. Yes, that's one way of putting it. Yeah. She also looked really, her face looked different in that scene when she, I don't know, she looked like an anime character to me at that point. She looked very young.

Very young and very, her face was extra slender. I don't know what it was. It's just the lighting. She looked very young, very kind of girl. girlish, I don't know, innocent and I don't know, something about her in this whole episode. It was very bizarre. I'm like, what's going on here? She didn't wear contacts, right? No. So I never wore colored contacts. Not like Nilex, no.

That's almost what it looked like to me. I agree with you. I didn't know what was happening. I was like, am I seeing things or I don't know. She was very pretty. You know what it is? It's Tom Paris love. That's what it is. That's what it is. Well, you know what? Then Roxanne Dan Dawson is the best actor on the planet then holy moly she gave off that little glow that Tom Paris love that's what's happening wow okay you get a little Tom Paris and then this is what happens you start that's what happens beautiful more animated looking she just got a glow exactly HD25 tells us they left Soros eight months ago with a group six and he's the maintenance isomorph he says yeah and he was there just to clean up and treated like crap by the crew.

Yes. And Torres wants to go below deck in the scene. And he goes, no, no, no, don't do that. Too dangerous. Way too dangerous down there. There's a radiation. Radiation leak. You can't do it.

Yeah. Great. So we go back and there's Harry and Seven working away. Seven has done her project. She's done doing her alignments or whatever. Her panel fixes. Yeah. And Harry says, well, let me just double check this.

run a little diagnostic. She's like, you don't trust me. Like, no, this is just, this is just, you know, this protocol. This is how it works. Standard procedure and a protocol, exactly. And he says, yep, there's a misalignment here. I forget what you said. It's like 0.0052 microns or something.

Microns or 0.5 microns off. You're being so picky, dude. I am being picky, man. I'm an exact guy. I got to get an exact guy. But if you're crushing on this girl, you don't want to like pick at her little microns that's a bad move

Tom Harris could have given you some advice on this that's a bad move with a woman that's human her whole life but a woman that is partially bored for most of her for most of her life that's going to impress her it's like hey that's true right that's true you're right nice move that was my move thank you nice I did notice though but at this point in our episode that you and and Jerry were working very closely together I was like, was that Ken's direction? Because your faces were always, it seems like inches apart.

And I was like, look at all these other scenes. Nobody else is standing that close. But I mean, it does pay off in your storyline later on. Yes, you're right. There's a lot of closeness going on for sure. Well, I think it probably, you know, I wouldn't, I think that actually was probably Ken's direction in the script because they have you in the Jeffrey's tubes and in these tight spaces for a long time.

which was to sort of intentionally put Harry and, you know, right up there next to seven all the time. Well, I'm going to throw out there. My favorite Harry Seven interaction was when he stops her from putting her hand in on the, you know, the coils in there that we're going to electrocute her basically. And I'm, I'm realizing afterwards that I've got both my hands on her, you know, body, her upper torso. And I kind of like, oh, oh, you know, I straighten up a little bit. I just I love that interaction that that awkward nervousness there that yes that was a lot of good close contact awkwardness it was very funny yeah very funny great so we go back uh tours is working now back on uh the ship in a different area yeah and then uh creepily HD 25 just kind of shows up behind her holding a little plate of food of rations right yeah and it's just so creepy when she's eating and she's like oh you you nibble like a fish like that You know what I'm going to say about this scene, though?

So this holographic, this isomorphic Prepar guy or whatever. Yeah. He shows up with some food for Torres on this creepy ship where he's already been a weirdo. Yeah. And she eats it. She just eats it.

Yeah. She's like, he just eats it. It's like, again. I know don't take food from strangers. Like I was taught that when I was a little boy. Okay. But, you know, we are now conditioned. to an era where men spiking women's drinks or the other way around is rampant, you know,

or people poisoning other people, whereas I think in the mid-90s, I think there was a little bit more trussed going on when we filmed this. I just, this is a bad move. This is a dumb move from my future wife, Torres, Palana Torres. Do not eat the food of a stranger. I mean, luckily, it didn't turn out to be anything. But this is, this is one of those places where I'd say if we were on a. if we were on a reality, a more, you know,

modern day or current time show. Yeah. If some potential bad guy offers you food, you don't eat it. You don't eat it. You pretend to eat it. And, you know, like, I just don't think she would have been as naive to think this guy was at this point. It was already suspicious of him. Anyway. But it was creepy. It's a creepy scene. Definitely. And he starts spinning out. Oh, he flips.

about organics and no because he says she says I understand how you feel and that's the turning point he's like you an organic you have no idea how I feel and he flips out yes by the way his makeup was not even he was silver on his face and then he went to flesh tone like it was that they should have caught that should have been caught by a number of people they should have seen that right not just the makeup department everybody's script supervisor director I think he felt that way with Brent Spiner and I didn't watch. I haven't seen all the, all the next gen episodes, but sometimes I've seen clips or, you know, episodes. You see a little bit of skin. Yeah, you see a skin. It's inevitable with that concept of makeup that it's going to bleed through. Right. I think, and I hate when I see that

on data because it just reminds me, oh, it's a guy with still. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, and most of our makeups, the prosthetic makeups are really good. You know, I totally buy into the alien thing. I made him note to myself after his big explosion and he apologized and everything. I made a note, Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. So I think ND25 is Cuckoo for Cocoa Buffs. You played it so well, though, Mr. Leelendorcer. He was great. He was great. We go upstairs. Torres tells the doctor that we got a problem. He's kind of a lunatic. He's lying. Maybe he's hiding something, she said. You think? You think that wacko is hiding something?

And then the doctor starts to have some sympathy. He's like, well, you know, I felt alienated when I was first. And this sort of scared me because I was like, oh, no, we're not going to go down this story where the doctor like decides to, you know, align himself with this crackadoodle. And by the way, at this point, I'm going, why aren't they calling for help? Yeah. Like Torres is flat out saying now, it took her long enough, but she's like saying, I think this guy's a cougar for co-coco-cobos.

And they still are trying to deal with this with just the two of them. Right. They should have called for backup at this point. Oh, God. Yeah. This is the time. Yeah. I mean, Tom was waiting to save, you know, to help, you know, protect his future wife.

He would have, he would have jumped out of sick pay and gone and helped her out. He would have. Then we cut back to Voyager and seven and. Harry are pulling out something out of a this is where you're pulling out the oh yeah yeah and then she and she hurts her hand and she thinks she's becoming weak she looks down she's got a little cut on her hand and I did notice as you were like no you need to go to sick bay yeah and as you guys walk out like your hands on her lower back you've got the other hand I'm like holy moly I've never seen how handsy can Harry get I got a really handsy

I was like, I was trying to guide her. No, I know. You were trying to take care of her. I'm just trying to take care of her. Yes. And your love language is physical touch. Evidently. Evidently.

Harry's love language and pretty much Gera Wong's love language, too, I guess. Physical touch, I guess. Yes. But I didn't touch anything naughty. I was just only touching like, you can't because it's a family hour TV show, Gary. I get that. But I'm trying to defend myself a little bit here. You go to sick bay.

and Tom is now the nurse or doctor. Oh, did you get, did you write this note down? Your lines that you say to seven in the beginning are identical. They are identical to what the doctor would say to anybody. It's almost like they, that, you know, like. Oh, I didn't catch that. Oh, my gosh.

Just watch that scene. And that's cool. I like that then. I like that Tom, you know, the idea that maybe Tom had, you know, was standing in for the doctor. No. Or intentionally, like, I'm going to be like the doctor. The doctor. Okay. Okay. I'll buy that. I'm going to. I'll buy that. I'm kind of like that. But Harry's wound up. He snaps at Tom. He's like, I'm so mean to you. You were really mad at me. I was a jerk to you. I apologize. And by the way, so you're kind of a jerk. And then I basically say like, hey, let's chill out.

Yeah. Chill out. I see you got you've got a crush on her. And yeah. And then I give you advice. But I got to say. I deny it, don't I? I deny it. You deny it for a little bit. And then you're like, yeah, maybe okay. Maybe a little crash. But you didn't ask me for my advice. Why is Tom giving you advice?

You didn't ask me, my opinion. Because you were still acting like the doctor. You're still acting like the doctor who thinks he knows everything, right? So you were taking the initiative, just like the doctor would, right? The doctor always gives his advice or his take on it without any. anybody asking him. So you were, in essence, I was channeling the spirit of the doctor. Yes. See, we're getting at the bottom of this episode. So happy. I do like the line where I say, I don't know much about bored women. But my advice is, my advice is don't. Right. I like that line. Just don't.

Were you happy watching this episode? Because in the beginning, you were like, I don't think Tom has much to do in this one. And I was like, I didn't think. I didn't think I had anything at all. Yeah. So it was kind of a mild surprise, like a gift, like a Christmas present, right, to see all this stuff. Okay. Yeah. But you're right.

I mean, that is a very funny line in it of itself. I don't know much about Borg women, but don't. That's it. But my advice to you is don't. Don't. That's it. I think Tom says something like, oh, I hope you take my advice. And you're like, I'll think about it or something.

You say it. You have that line after I'm out of the room. right because I leave the room and you're like I hope he takes my advice which is also rare there's not a lot of yeah whenever someone leaves the room there's usually a the camera is now on the person left in the room just reacting a nonverbal reaction yeah thinking that's not not talking to no clearly Tom is lonely so he's talking to himself no because no one's around you're channeling the doctor again I guess that's it that's it okay by the way I did like like sitting down at the doctor's desk yeah how was that pretty fun I felt

very, I felt like a cross between the doctor and Janeway. I poured myself a little coffee, put my feet up. Clearly, you know, they were trying to show I'm, I'm going to leave a mess. I'm going to make a mess in there. So later on when the doctor comes back, he's like, this place is a disaster. Yes. Let's talk about you drinking that coffee, okay? Yes.

You bring that coffee up to your mouth and you do this little lip, I can even, I cannot even impersonate or imitate your little lip purse that you do. What is that move that you just did? No, you weren't. Was it you reminiscing about Torres's lips and you're like, doing a little kiss? Maybe. I don't know.

Maybe it was a hot cup. Maybe I was being careful. It's very subtle. It's a very subtle move, but the lips. I don't think it was intentional. Whatever I was doing. Okay. It was probably because it was just a hot cup.

I don't know. Just checking. Okay, do. All right. So the dock is showing ND-25, the ship systems. And I'm thinking this whole time, no, why are you? explaining how this whole ship works yes and first of all you you've now changed his name he from hd to end oh yeah he's ind i don't know what non-descript number 25 yes okay he's HD yes HD high

definition 25 all right so yeah so you're saying why is he teaching him all this stuff right you're teaching the murderer how to escape and do more murder but the doctor thinks he's a cool guy right now and he really sympathizes with him yeah sympathizes and empathizes and empathizes with his, you know, his feeling stuck. And, yeah, and, and H.D., high definition 25, thinks the doctor is a hero. Like, this is a moment where we're cutting back and forth with Balana down below decks, things are getting really kind of scary.

And we go back up and, and HG25 asked the doctor to join him on this vessel and just leave Voyager and they will explore, you know, the galaxy. And so the whole time I'm thinking, oh, I hope that's not where this story goes. I hope the doctor doesn't have to go down this road, which he doesn't ultimately. He sort of dips his toe in him a little bit, but he never goes there. No, he doesn't. But then Balana finds these dead bodies. Yeah.

She turns on some systems. The lights come on. And that was kind of cool because it was like an upside down body hand and sideways and all the I like that. That was kind of scary. Can you do that again? how do you like that uh but she finds the body the alarm goes off and hc25 says i'll be right back doc yeah because someone is trying to access his matrix so that's the alarm yes the isomor's matrix

um and he and he transports down below finds balana yeah throws her up against uh the wall and then he sticks his hand yes that's a move that you see in saturday kung fu movies where the one kung fu master she puts his whole hand in to grab the heart and pull it out right so he's doing that and all I could think of was like wow I don't think that's ever happened on star trek voyager where somebody sticks their hand into somebody else's chest cavity and tries to pull their heart out or strangle their yeah no um yeah very very crazy scene very crazy we go out with lots of pain happening and Torres does take him offline right she reaches over oh yeah she reaches She's over. That's right. She reaches over. She almost gets the button and finally hits the button. He's out. He's out. Yeah, but we don't know if she's okay. We go back to Voyager. Mess hall. Here it is. Over over a ship shot, we hear Harry's log. His personal log. His personal log. And I was like, it's an official log, though. I wrote down, wow, this is really personal for an official law. This is like journaling. I'm like, when do we hear?

So our character's like, dear diary. Well, that's what it should have been. It should have been Harry in his quarters going, dear diary. And just writing down, you know, it was kind of talking of ASMR. Yes. I've now met 7th, 9. I love her. And just doing this really kind of low thing.

But you're right. Why on earth would Harry record an official log entry? Why? Why? I don't think we've ever heard. Have we ever heard a Harry log before? Yes, yes. we have but it's always been about work it hasn't ever been about this yeah this is really like

dear diary it is it was funny okay so we go to mess hall harry's called seven and i wrote down wow smooth operator like from the beginning you're like hey you like the low lights in here it's comfortable well it's got a nice view you like something refreshing but it had to be that but it had to be because Lisa wrote it as a turn the table scene, right? The turn the table scene has to start off one way, one direction, and completely go sideways. And yes, Harry had to be the smooth operator. He was the smooth operator.

I wrote down like, this is going to go badly. I couldn't even remember this episode. I was like, this is going to go badly. Yes. Oh, my God. And then when she calls his bluff, you know, your pupils are dialing. you've been trying to create a romantic mood yes yes he's like okay take your clothes off yes take off your clothes and then I'm like da ooh ah no but you know so I remember when we were filming and I tell

the story at conventions that after we filmed the scene Kimbeller yelled cut and then Jerry Ryan turns around she looks she looks at me and she goes you lost out is what she said to me right after the camera was stop rolling and she turns to the crew she goes any takers and I just remember like Billy Peets everyone like raising their hand like me me I'm the one I can do the job I won't turn you down I will take my clothes off you know so after this episode aired it didn't it didn't matter where I was in the world I could be traveling to you know I would be in England Germany people that recognize me from the show and had seen that episode would look at me and go oh they'd all shake their head because they knew that I had turned down the nookie you know what I'm saying this seven the ex-borg nooky the ex-borg nooky the e bn i turned down the ebn and i could have had it it was right there and i love how she leaves the scene by saying she says well you know she says well let me know if you would like to continue our work is what she said it definitely feels like i don't think the writers knew whether this was going to be just a one-off or if this was going to be a

relationship. I think that they really thought maybe, you know, Harry and Seven of Nine will become a relationship. I felt that way. Like they were leaving the door open. Trust me. I did too. And if they did go down that avenue, I would be on Picard right now with Jerry Ryan. It's what happened. But I was shocked that they never touched that again. It was never ever after this episode, after Harry says, no, I don't wish to copulate. Then you never ever see that again. It's gone. Really? Right? No, because then the next person that falls in love with seven is the doctor which makes no sense at all and then Chacote and it's like what the heck I feel like Harry had an ongoing sort of like I feel like there's a lot of moments in the show we'll see yeah we'll see we'll see we'll see

I don't feel like there's a lot of moments that kind of say that acknowledge from both of them that oh yeah you know we both know that there's a crush there used to be a crush there but we've moved past it. Okay. I do. I feel like there's a lot of little moments. But you're right. This is a story that deals with it.

I don't think there's another story. No. That really addresses it. But there's moments. I think they track them. You may be right about that. We'll see. We shall see.

Let's see. So we go back and the doctor is reviving Boulana. Yeah. God, my future wife. She has internal injuries. Duh. He stuck his holographic hand in her chest and squeezed her heart. Basically, he's popped.

punctured her left ventricle, I think is what he said. So part of her heart has a hole in it right now. How can she, and she's, and she's still, oh, my God. And she's like, let's go to the command chamber for me to like, you know, figure something out. So now they're in the command chamber. And then that's when, oh, yeah, I've taken him offline. Right.

Doc looks over and sees the fish, holographic fish. Right. Well, she asks, well, here's a thing. They can't beam back, right? They can't beam back to the shuttle because he's put a dampening field. So she says, listen, I've got my tools over there on that, over on that counter over there. So can you go grab them for me? And that's when the doctor walks over and sees the fish and says, wait a minute.

Yeah. I thought you turned off all the emitters. She goes, I did. And then you hear thump and a thud and you look over. And just the way, I just love the way Roxanne posed herself. I mean, she just took completely like a, like, as if she was a Pinocchio where the strings were cut and she just fell like that. It was brilliant. I loved it.

Yeah. By the way, the HD25 first has to take out the doctor. and he hits him at the mobile emitter. And so he knocks the mobile emitter off. Yes, yes. And that's why the doctor disappears. And I love that line. I love that line when the doctor says,

we're trying to help you because you're unstable. And then Lila Norser screams back, no, no, you're unstable. You're a hologram that thinks like an organic. Yeah, that's right. I love that line. It was very good. Yeah.

And really, the doctor should have known that the mobile emitter is vulnerable. Like he should have just move your shoulder back. That would have stopped it right there. No. I did think so. Yeah. So he gets the mobile emitter and then Bologna wakes up. Yeah.

And HG25 starts going after Bala. And I thought this was beautifully staged by Ken Biller. Well done. Because I know this was a small set. I know these sets they built. And it felt like he had a really wonderful cat and mouse with Bala sort of trying to escape and finding that room and all the little detail. I thought it was really good.

Agreed. Ultimately, she grabs like a power cable and just as he's about together. Let me just clarify for you. I'm the English to Technobabial Dictionary. It was a live isomagnetic conduit that she used to deactivate him. Yes, of course it was. That's science. Everybody knows that.

Everyone knows that. So, yeah, so he dies. And then we cut to a bit later, Chakote, getting a glass of water out of his replicator. in his quarters. Yes. In his office. Did you see where he put that? Hey, Robbie, where did you, where does he put that water?

On his desk or I don't know. No, he puts it on the control panel where all the buttons are. Oh, right on the buttons. Did you notice that? I'm like, dude, what are you doing? I didn't notice that. You just turned off our shields or something. Like when you, I mean, you turned off life support.

It's like, dumb like that. So I don't think anyone caught that except for, and even me when I first watched this, I didn't notice that. But in this rewatch, I was like, oh, that's funny. Now that you say it, I did something about the water just bothered me. It was just, I don't know why. Maybe that's what it was subconsciously. You don't place any drinks on touch sensitive keypads, right?

No. But Harry comes in and he says, yeah, Chacote's like, wow, you guys work fast. You're done with that project. And Harry's like, yeah, we're all done. Why don't we have an engineering team takeover? I'm, you know, I'm good. I'm good. I don't need to.

Don't you want to supervise this? It's just your baby, astrometrics. No, no, it's cool. Just don't do it. Absolutely not. And Harry does not want to say why. No. And I think it's interesting because this is why I thought that there was maybe going to be a Harry, you know.

Yeah. I know how things turn out. Right. But I think the writer's intention here was, hey, maybe there will be a Harry and seven, you know. It sure looked like that. Yeah, because he says, I'm going to keep. you on this job with her and I'm going to continue to assign you two to jobs over and over again. And I just, I really loved the, I was very pleased with my acting where the one point where

Harry thinks that Seven has told Chacote about the, you know, the take your clothes off bit. And I'm like, she, what, you know, that little kind of just can't even grasp the situation. I'm nervous. I'm embarrassed. I'm freaked out, you know. And I, that was the one time I thought, Oh, I actually liked what I did there. No, it was very good. Yeah. Like, for me, that was believable. By the way, by the way, I think after I did the rewatch, I go, like, you know,

researching on the interwebs, lots of different things about the episode. Yeah. And I did see on one of the boards that the scene with you and Chukotay was filmed weeks after the episode. Oh, really? It was an added scene. Wow. So normally what happens is they'll shoot the episode, they'll put it together, they'll edit it,

and then if the episode is short, or if there's something in the story, they're like, huh, we didn't, we need a scene to fix this story point. Right. You know, so they must have either been short. Yeah. You know, the time, the running time was a little short. They needed another minute, minute and a half, whatever, two minutes. Or they looked at that story and said, hey, there's no real wrap up.

There's no real resolution. Okay. We need some kind of resolve. So anyway, that was an added scene. It looks like to me. Okay. Because it was shot, you know, two, three weeks after. That all makes sense to me now because when I was watching that scene, Wichikote,

looking at Harry's face, it's wider, it's heavier. It's almost like I'm retaining water in that scene. Does that make sense? Yeah. So I felt like, oh, my God. It was weeks later. And it was weeks later, which would make sense. sense. Maybe I ate a lot and this is about the time when we started to eat craft service

with, you know, we didn't care what we were eating and all of us got heavy. So I'm feeling it two or three weeks later. I was actually heavier than when I filmed the episode. Definitely was a big break. So. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So there's the scene there and then we go to sickbay. Yeah. And we get a nice dad joke from Tom right up front. Bala says, oh, is that going to be too late to meet me? Because the doctor says to Tom, hey, you're going to stick around here and help me clean up this mess. This place is disgusting. Right.

And Bala says, oh, is that going to be too late for you to meet me in my quarters later? Right. And Tom says, are you sure your heart can take it? Yeah. I was like, oh, man, dad jokes. That was your die hard. That's like a die hard. hard, you know, Bruce Willis line right there, you know, are you sure your heart can take it?

There you go. And then, then the doctor. Well, you say you have to go check on me, remember? You say, I have to go check on Harry. I heard he's having a nervous breakdown. It's a long story. And that's when the doctor says he turns into HD25. He's like, right?

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. The doctor also has a little dad joke. He tries to one up me. He says, I'm detecting elevated hormonal levels. If you two don't take it easy, I'll have to declare a medical. emergency. Oh, the Trek way of saying, get a room.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, goodness. But I'm bum. But we end the episode with the doctor deciding to let things be a little more organic and embrace a human side of things. He's not going to try to be so clean and neat and uptight about things. He allows chaos to enter into his sick bag, right? Yeah.

And then we pan over to his office and we see what Tom has done, which is, there's crap everywhere on his desk and it's a bit of a mess. Yeah. And now you see the. origins of my haiku, the last line, because you talk about Harry and seven being a long story, and then you ask Balana at the end, what's going on with the doctor? And she says, it's a long story. So that's why I felt like those are the two main storylines really in this episode, right? Two long stories. Well, that was not a long story. That was a good story. Yeah. And short.

Theme, theme, theme, my theme, my theme is being human. is messy, but that's okay. Oh. That's my thing. Okay. Mine would have to be beware of a wolf in holograms clothing. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Yeah. So yours is just kind of being human is messy. Being organic is messy. And that's okay. Like that's part of being human. The doctor learns that lesson. That's good lesson. Yeah. Mine's. more of a joke lesson. HD-H-D-25 did not learn that lesson. No, it's clearly not. He got deactivated by a plasma conduit or something, whatever you said it was.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Overall, what is your ranking 0 to 10? What are you going to give this episode? I actually liked this episode a lot, although I wish the promise of that first scene where we were all sitting around a table with the laughter and the fun, there wasn't a lot of involvement by Tuvok or Neelix. or Chacote, really, or Janeway, much at all. So I'm going to give this like a 7.5. Okay.

Because I liked it for what it was, but it can't go much higher because those episodes have to involve all of us or else I just don't think it's the best episode. I'm going to go higher than you. I'm going to go eight just because of the awesome interaction in the mess hall in the beginning. I just love that scene so much. And also because Leel Endorser was the right casting for this.

He did such a good job. So I'm going to boost it up a little bit more. And just overall, even the dad jokes, I enjoyed it. So this was one enjoyable episode for me. I liked it. I did too. It was good. All right.

So what is next week's episode? Next week, Robbie and I will be reviewing talking about The Raven. The Raven. The Raven. All right. I'm excited. do with Edgar Allan Poe, I don't think, or maybe, I don't know. I just know that's the title.

Who knows? We'll see. And thanks everybody for joining us for the Delta Flyers podcast for our Patreon patrons. Stick around. We've got some bonus material coming right up.