The Delta Flyers - Rocks and Shoals

Starting point is 00:00:10 Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Cork, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Terfair or Terry Farrell, Armin Schimmerman or Arshim, Robert Duncan McNeil or Robbie Dunk Mick, and myself, Garrett Wong, or Gawah. And I also want to say for those listening that we have some sensitive topics today in this episode. So you should listen or watch at your own discretion. We have scenes that discuss suicide and the end of life. So if anyone is triggered by that or has strong feelings about it, please be careful. Okay.

Starting point is 00:01:06 There you go. And if I may, totally different. I was at a convention this past weekend and I want to thank all the Delta Flyer people who came up to me who were prophets and watchers of the show. Thank you very much for attending. Aren't they lovely? They are.

Starting point is 00:01:21 Best fans ever. I'm guessing the entire UK Dominion is what they call themselves. The prophets that are the UK ones. They all showed up in mass, didn't they for you? That's good. That's good. Hey, Armin, how was Amsterdam? Yes.

Starting point is 00:01:37 Talk to us about the... I've never been. Neither had we, and we were overly impressed. We had to go back. It wasn't enough time. It was great. Everything about it was lovely. It's just a gorgeous city.

Starting point is 00:01:50 People were very nice. The food was exquisite. And then we spent a couple of days in a smaller town called Delft, where the porcelain comes from, or used to come from. And that was equally as extraordinary. Kitty and I, and then we had a day in, I can't pronounce it. Kukenhoff, I think that's correct, which is 47 acres of tulips. Oh, wow. I would love that.

Starting point is 00:02:19 Oh, my gosh. It was Disneyland for adults. It was gorgeous, and there were thousands of people there, but it never felt that crowded. It was crowded, but not that crowd. But the tulips, and it was the end of the season, the tulips were magnificent. They told us three million. bulbs are planted every year so that we could see what we saw

Starting point is 00:02:43 last week. Wow. Wow. Did they sell them? They do sell them, but for the most part, it's just them growing. Visual pleasure. Yeah, it's visual. That's exactly right. Thank you. That's a perfect way to put it. Visual pleasure. It was extraordinary. The different types of tulips

Starting point is 00:03:03 and the grounds are all landscaped. It took an hour out. It was an hour outside. side of Amsterdam. We took a bus. And, oh, it was a glorious day. It's a glorious day. Oh, my God. That's wonderful. And you sound like a cling on. It was a good day to die.

Starting point is 00:03:22 It was a good day to die. After seeing. Well, I'm glad you survived it. Yeah. Yeah. You definitely have to go back again. And I always, we do. Yeah, I always tell people. And like being in New York, every language imaginable, you could hear, as we're walking around.

Starting point is 00:03:38 Yeah. Visitors from every country that I can think of were there. You heard just different languages all the time. Everybody taking pictures, everybody with smiles on their faces. My three favorite destinations that I tell people when I go to Europe are going to be Czech Republic, Netherlands, and Iceland. I love those three countries. There's so much, so much to do and see.

Starting point is 00:03:59 So I'm so happy you finally made it to the Netherlands. It's definitely worth the trip. I don't know when, but I'm going back. Yeah. And Tare Fair and Robbie, both of you. need to go to I would love. Especially I'd like to see

Starting point is 00:04:11 I had a friend who went I don't think it was Iceland but it was somewhere high up and went in the winter and they stayed in Oh like those glass dome Yeah Like an ice hotel?

Starting point is 00:04:29 My sister did that I Oh I would love to do that What a dream come true to just wake up And see the Orborialis I think I think Judith Obergen-Wa took her grandchildren there. Oh, wow. Wow.

Starting point is 00:04:42 That sounds incredible. Birthdays? Birthdays, yes. Fridays. Fair fair. Jessica B is our first. Jessica B. Happy birthday on July 1st.

Starting point is 00:04:55 Oh my goodness. Happy birthday. Happy birthday, Jessica. Happy birthday, Jessica. Have a great day. Happy birthday, Jessica. B. Andrea Wilson.

Starting point is 00:05:09 Andrea Wilson, July 2nd, one day later, July 2nd. Happy birthday, Andrea. And the party continues. Happy birthday, Andrea. Happy birthday, Andrea. Happy, happy birthday, Andrea. Have a great day. Poetry synopsis time.

Starting point is 00:05:32 Yes, poetry and etymology. And etymology. All the things today. I guess I'm first and then care fare, and then Robbie, then Armine. So that's going to be the... today. Nice to know the order of things. Yes, it is. It is. Here's my haiku for

Starting point is 00:05:48 rocks and shoals, which Paramount Plus has reversed by by mistake, the titles or whatever, correct? Even though the order is the same. It's because it's a different order. Don't you think that's why they made that mistake? I don't know, but it was all flipped around. They were shot in a different order. Okay. Got it. Maybe that confused them. I read that. All righty. Here we go. Here's my

Starting point is 00:06:08 haiku for rocks and shoals. Crash landing. stranded. Dax injured. Gem Hadar threat. Vorda subterfuge. Wow, you got all the plot points in that little haiku. I know. That's incredible.

Starting point is 00:06:25 That's incredible. Amazing. Thank you. You forgot to say quark missing. Yes. That's my alternate hykoo stands a line. I was thinking about that, but it didn't make the cut. I'm sorry.

Starting point is 00:06:38 What we're cork and wharf up to? I know. So we get to talk. about that later. Ter Fair, let's hear your poetry. My poetry synopsis is entitled Kira. Oh. Lay it smart. Don't make a scene. Can't tell us a part, the direction I lean. My truth is hidden. My heart is on fire. My integrity forbidden. I cannot remain an outlier. Oh, very good. I like that. Wow. I really do like that. Bravo, brava.

Starting point is 00:07:11 I love that you focused on Kira, too, because so did I in my poll. You did? Yeah, which is amazing. You're on the same page. Yeah, that's crazy. We were on the same page. It felt like there was too much going on. And I just thought she stood out to me in this episode.

Starting point is 00:07:29 Yeah, me too. Her performance, very nuanced. I was very impressed. Agreed. So it's actually perfect that I went first. So I did the broad one, then you're more detailed. And Robbie's going to go in even more. detail here. All right, here we go. Here is my limerick for, what is this called? Rocks and

Starting point is 00:07:45 shows. It's called Rock and Roll. Which is not what it's about, but okay. Yeah. Okay, here we go with my limerick. The Dominion demanded total control, submission of body and soul, but Kira stood fast. She had learned in her past without freedom, life is nothing but a black hole. Nice. Nice, nice, nice. You got it. You got it. You're on fire.

Starting point is 00:08:17 We're on fire today. That's the cure up here. Yeah, yeah. All right. Monsieur Amen, can you give us a little etymology? I will take it down a couple notches. All right. So, ladies and gentlemen, the word rock is from the old French, Roque, or Rogg, also Roche.

Starting point is 00:08:40 The definition, of course, is a large, ragged mass of stone forming a cliff, crag, or natural prominence on land or at sea. There's a second definition. In that figurative or an illusion in usage, a source of danger or destruction, that's pertinent to the episode. Three, the third definition, in On the Rocks means quite destitute of means. So those are my three definitions. Like a boat on the rock? Like a ship might have crashed against the rocks or something? It's quite destitute.

Starting point is 00:09:15 Or if your life is on the rocks, it means that you are destitute, that you have no way forward. If my cocktail is on the rocks, it is delicious. I'm sure there's that definition in the dictionary as well, but I didn't get it. Now, that's just one of the two nouns in the titles. So the second noun is shoal, which is to me an interesting word. that we don't normally come across. So a shoal is a place where the water is of little depth. It's a shallow, a sandbank, or a bar.

Starting point is 00:09:51 It was first used in 1375. Shakespeare's famous quote about shoals is upon the bank and shoal of time. That's from the Scottish play. It can also mean a mass of floating ice. And the third definition is a water course. a harbor when it becomes shallow. A sandbar is a great analogy. You mentioned that.

Starting point is 00:10:15 You said a sandbar is kind of you can't really see the ground under the very shallow water. And that too can be dangerous. For boaters, yeah, very dangerous. May I add? Yeah. Rocks and Shoals informed the name of articles for the U.S. government Navy. triggered swift and harsh punishment. And this was changed in 1951,

Starting point is 00:10:43 replaced by a uniform code of military justice. Wow. Swift and harsh punishment. And I guess that's in there too. Yes. Yes, that is there too. I just came across it because I thought, I don't even know what this means.

Starting point is 00:10:57 What does the title mean? And so what you explained is probably more accurate to what they were meaning rather than for mariners rocks and shoals is a dangerous situation for a boat yeah okay my father was a big boater he he always had boats and he lived um on the north carolina coast and would go out boating and so sandbars and shoals he used that word a lot actually she did say that yeah okay yeah because boaters in that kind of environment where there's a lot of sandbars and the you know the bottom is shifting a lot because of the tides and things things like that. So you can't count on something that was once safe for the boat to be safe

Starting point is 00:11:40 the next day necessarily. So you're always looking out for sandbars and shoals. Not so many rocks down there. Yeah. But sandbars. More shoals, yeah. Great. Well, thank you, Terfer, for adding that in there. We appreciate that. Thank you. Let's go to the Patreon submitted poetry winner, and that is a Limerick submitted by Alex Ray. Here we go. Alex? Yeah, Alex. All right.

Starting point is 00:12:04 Cisco and the crew crash on the sand. Their enemies are also on this land. Kira struggles with her position. Keevan makes a startling proposition. In the end, a terrible decision is left in Cisco's hand. Not bad, yes. Nice, Alex. Limericks are very tricky, so good for you for taking on a tough form.

Starting point is 00:12:29 Mm-hmm. You know well. They are tricky. Patreon submitted poetry honorable mention. Haiku submitted by Charlie Faulkner, stranded on harsh sand. Orders force men into death. Victory feels wrong. Victory feels wrong.

Starting point is 00:12:51 Very good. Yeah, it's a strong line there. I like it. Thanks, Charlie Faulkner. Thank you, Charlie. Thank you, Charlie. But if I may, one of the pluses of this episode is, is that we're not quite sure if that victory seems wrong.

Starting point is 00:13:06 From Cisco's point of view, yes, it's wrong. From Garrick's point of view, maybe not so wrong. Correct. That's what I love about our show, is that you get two points of view and you have to decide. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:19 And how you handle your integrity and your honor. That's right. Yeah. And the necessity of the situation. What they thought was, yeah. That's right. I mean, to me, one of the most honorable things in the episode is the Jim Hidar fighting to the dead.

Starting point is 00:13:34 That's an honorable thing to do. Yes, it is. Which is an unlikely source for Jim Hedar, which we are usually told are horrible people. Right. So it's very nice that we've got the other side of the equation. Yeah. They're redeeming qualities for sure. I mean, it's admirable to see someone with unwavering loyalty like that just to keep going with the mission,

Starting point is 00:13:56 even though he knew what was going to happen. And it's their job. And most of the time, that's what Starfleet does. You know, how many times have you, Terry, as your character, or other characters, or you guys as well, have volunteered for suicide missions? Yeah, I'll do it. I'll do it. It's unwavering loyalty to the course. That's right. That's right.

Starting point is 00:14:14 That's right. All right. So this episode is written by Ronald D. Moore, directed by good old Mike Vahar. We have guest stars, Andrew J. Robinson as Garrick. Phil Morris as Ramatakana. I got to be honest, I didn't even recognize that it's Phil Morris. His voice, I did. I feel like his voice was even a little bit altered for the.

Starting point is 00:14:36 I mean, I don't know. Everything about what he did for this role was so opposite of who he is as a person I felt that I really enjoyed his. I don't feel for a very long time. It took me, I knew he was in the episode, but it took me a moment to go, oh, that's still. Yeah. It was the eyes that I had. Then I remembered him. I went, oh, yes, that handsome man.

Starting point is 00:14:58 Yes. And he's very funny. We did an episode of Seinfeld together. He's very funny. That is a famous episode. That's a really popular episode of Seinfeld that he did. All right. We also have Christopher Shea, who played Keevan.

Starting point is 00:15:14 He also played Salwin in a Voyager episode, Think Tank, Robbie. So we worked with him. It's a great performance. Aaron Eisenberg as Nog, Paul S. Xteen, as Lamarassan. But he also played Moroc in the Voyager episode, Prophecy. So we have a couple of guests. stars who worked on Voyager as well here. Lillian Chauvin as Yasm.

Starting point is 00:15:37 Yazim. Yasm. Was she French? Does anyone know? Oh, I went to that. I know French. And I loved that. I thought maybe French Canadian, actually.

Starting point is 00:15:48 I was thinking I was hearing a little bit of that, but possibly. Me too. That accent kind of lended a little extra gravitas in a weird way. I thought it was a good. She's from Paris, France. Oh, there you go. Oh. She's French French, yes.

Starting point is 00:16:03 She's French French. Yeah, it did give more gravitas. I don't know why. Her performance. Elegant. So elegant. Next up, we have Sarah McDonald as Neely, and we have Joseph Fouqua, who played Gordon. And that is all of our guest stars.

Starting point is 00:16:19 Does anyone have any comments about any of these guest stars that they wanted to share? They were all terrific. Okay. I agree. They were. Excellent. I agree. I think they could have made better use of the last two, but they were all terrific.

Starting point is 00:16:30 And in fact, if I may, if I may, they could have made better use of you too, Terry. It's a lovely performance, but you're just, not that you're just lying there, but you're lying there. I am. I'm just lying there. You had some cute lines though, lying there. I think I just got injured, though, so I wouldn't have to be out in the sun. Yes, we'll talk. It would be nice if I was injured in a way that I could have still been helpful, like broke my leg or. Yes.

Starting point is 00:16:57 Yes. Or suggested some way to get you guys out. out of there or something. You use your scientific mind, you know? Yeah, how is my mind not working? I don't want to carp here because it just seemed like I'm glad you were in the episode, but I thought, give her more to do. Give me more to do. Oh, yeah. My character seems to get that fate quite often. Okay, go ahead. A little bit of trivia here. Michael Dorn and Armin do not appear in this episode, although a scene in the script had Wharf rescuing the Starfleak crew aboard the IKS for Taran. The scene did not get filmed due to the heat.

Starting point is 00:17:33 Temperatures were so high during filming, reaching a hundred and twenty-eight degrees Fahrenheit. Wow. That's hot, making the cast and crew uncomfortable. Makeup was melting. The soles on Steve Oster's hiking boots melted in the heat. And also, later you will see the eyes of the Gemmajar on close-ups of especially, especially when you are looking at Phil Morris. You can see the redness in his eyes because the makeup has dripped into his eyes. And it's actually he's having an adverse reaction to that.

Starting point is 00:18:08 So therefore, the red eye. Very interesting. Yeah. The original idea for this episode was from the 1965 Frank Sinatra film, None But the Brave. And the writers had Dax injured in this episode so that Terry could avoid being in direct sunlight. Terry's already mentioned in other episodes that she can't have her skin exposed to direct sunlight. So that was part of what was written in. Is that correct then?

Starting point is 00:18:30 I had really bad hyperpigmentation at the time. Yes. It looked, it was just so depressing. And the sun would have made it even worse, right? Oh, yeah. And it was like a weird, like, pardon my four. It's gone now, but it was really bad and horrible at that age to have crazy looking skin.

Starting point is 00:18:50 Spots. Do you have spots on your skin? Yes, I did. That is kind of funny. It looked like continents just slapped on me. It's awful. save Westmore a lot of time, wouldn't it? It's like, just paint the continents.

Starting point is 00:19:07 Yeah, it was bad. Every time we went on location, it was bad. Is that crazy? The elements, yeah, the elements never cooperated with DS9. So that's sad. Okay. Maybe film those episodes in the spring. Yeah, that would have been good.

Starting point is 00:19:24 All right. So we start off this episode. There's a captain's log. O'Brien needs extra days. to restore me in power, but they don't have that time because two Jim Hidar fighters have found them. And if you remember, they had just, before this, didn't they just blow up the catcher cell white facility?

Starting point is 00:19:40 So they're getting away, right? So now they are. I wish they had a little reminder. Oh, a little flashback. Like a recap or something. Yeah, just a tiny one because it just was, where are we right now? Well, I don't know why. It took me a second.

Starting point is 00:19:54 They said at the end of the last episode that it's going to take is like 17 years and five months to get home or something. impulse power, right? That's important to remind the audience. Yes, I think so too, right, before you're watching it. But this is an explosive opening, which makes me really happy. And I love that, especially for a science fiction show. Open with a big bang.

Starting point is 00:20:17 Yeah, big bang. So our heroes are still in the captured Gemmodar ship that they've been using. We're in the control room now. We have O'Brien and Nog rushing to complete repairs. I love the cussing that Nog's starting. doing to copy. Chief O'Brien, very funny. Skull, damn, yes.

Starting point is 00:20:35 Did you reroute the damn gyrodines? I'm not trying, but the damn thrusters is very funny. No, Brian scolds him. Watch your mouth. Yes, watch your mouth. Yeah. So as the Gemadar bearing down on our heroes, Cisco sees a dark matter nebula on his cool headpiece.

Starting point is 00:20:52 He orders Dax to pilot their damaged ship into it at full impulse. They take on fire from the two Gemmodar ships, and there's a massive explosion, which it's so huge. It blows Dax back so far. She knocks the railing that's behind her off of its... Do you know how hard that is to knock a railing that's actually bolted into a metal... A titanium railing.

Starting point is 00:21:13 Yes. So let's... You can imagine the bruise on my back. Oh, on your every part of you, your back. Yeah. Yeah. Put some kind of padding on the... On that railing note, didn't it?

Starting point is 00:21:25 It wasn't me. It wasn't me. I wanted to notice that. That was your stunt person. Yeah. After the explosion, all systems are offline, emergency power has kicked in and they cross into the nebula. The two Gemadar ships that were pursuing, they break off pursuit because they realize you just don't fly into a random nebula. You shouldn't do that.

Starting point is 00:21:43 We do see a super cool shot of the ship plunging down onto the planet. It's an amazing shot. The whole beginning, though, even looking through the eyepiece when you're seeing through the eyepiece, but it's also overlaid on top of whatever. whatever he's looking at. So you first see like hit up, you see me, but you also see the fighter jets.

Starting point is 00:22:07 Yes. Through the, that little. Yeah. Through his little view screen. Yeah. Wasn't that cool? What I thought was cool. It's a Vorda eye piece. Yeah, the Vorda eyepiece.

Starting point is 00:22:17 Right. But did you guys notice that the way they filmed it? Or Jem Hidar. No, it's the Vorda. It's Worda. Okay. Thank you. But if you notice the way it was filmed, the way Mike Veyhar filmed it,

Starting point is 00:22:28 you could, literally Cisco would look this way and he could see something. Then he turned his entire body, his head to the other direction to see the ships coming in. So literally that view piece, that view screen, it's just, yeah, your view screen can be anywhere now, right? You can look. It's like a virtual reality. It's like a VR. It's like a VR headset.

Starting point is 00:22:48 It's so cool. I did wonder. I want one. I did wonder like when the Gemmada ships stop and they don't go into the nebula. Yeah. I'm like, we do fly into nebulas. all the time. Like, this is kind of like, they're suddenly scared of a nebula.

Starting point is 00:23:04 And then when, when they start getting sucked down to the planet or whatever. Yeah. We're crashing. Yeah, crashing. And Cisco's like, Chief, what happened? And O'Brien doesn't even answer. His line is literally, I don't know, we must have been hit by some kind of gravitational spike in the. And then Garrick interrupts him.

Starting point is 00:23:24 So we don't even get the explanation. We don't know what happened. Oh, no. Oh, no. They cut him off. I thought it was very clever. It is. How can we avoid, yes, explaining the science of that this makes no sense that we're crashing into a planet for no apparent reason?

Starting point is 00:23:44 Exactly. Oh, well, no, did you see the damage on the ship? There was a lot of damage. Multiple parts of that gem of our ship were damaged. And I think that was sufficient. I think we didn't need an explanation. It was a visual. A great picture is worth a thousand words.

Starting point is 00:24:00 Yeah, it could have just been the damage and leave it well. Visual medium. Thank you for showing us instead of telling us. Yes, exactly. It looks good. We come back from commercial break, and we discover that a group of Gemadar have also crashed landed on the same planet

Starting point is 00:24:14 with a beautiful shoreline shot, and we have two Gem Hadar in profile, nice composition there. How did they do that? Is that an actual location? No, it's a split screen. They did a split screen. So they stood them next to the lake.

Starting point is 00:24:32 Do we know where they were filming? Was it Lake Pyrou or do we know? It was. Hang on. Anybody look it up? I didn't look at Lake Pyru to me. We were in Sun Valley, California. Oh, so then you guys were at the Rock Quarry Soledadac Canyon.

Starting point is 00:24:47 Yeah. They filmed there before. They have filmed there before, yes. But not the water part. Normally we don't see the water. Like before when we filmed there, it was with Garrick and I think some other character and they were just trudging through the, you know, the rocks and they didn't see the water. Wow.

Starting point is 00:25:04 But yeah, go ahead, Robbie. You were saying to... Oh, yeah, just a split screen. So they filmed next to the quarry water and then Dan Curry or whoever visual effects department would put in a shot of the ocean with the crashing waves sort of split screen on the other half of the screen. Didn't it kind of look like Planet of the Apes for a second? Yeah, a little bit. When the ship sank, it definitely did.

Starting point is 00:25:25 Oh, my gosh. How about the fire? on the ship. Yeah. Those thoughts and going, that, oh, again. Good work. Yeah. They look good.

Starting point is 00:25:36 All right. So the Gemadar are talking, and we've, we realize that when they crash landed, they lost a couple of their unit members, and their Vorda, who leads them, is seriously injured. So the conversation we meet, we see two, Gemadar. One is Ramataklan, played by Phil Morris, and the other one is Paul Eckstein. character, Lamarison, and they're just talking about what needs to be done, and they talk about how they're going to protect this planet, and they need to figure out a way to get their

Starting point is 00:26:09 communications back up again. That's the biggest problem. They have no communications with the Dominion to get rescued us. How what? Yeah, it mirrors. I got injured. He got injured. They were only two days crashed before us. Yes. Yep. And number three. Bill, Bill Morris. Bill Morris saw, his character said he's not going to be number one because he, he questioned the Vorta. Yeah. In a prior. About going into the nebula. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 00:26:39 Before going in because he knew it was unsafe. And he knew that he was wrong to do so. It's very important to the episode. Very important to the episode. Yeah, it is important. Then we cut to a beach where we see Nogg swimming ashore. And I got to say, Aaron Eisenberg, with that prosthetic on his head, that is almost like an, armband or a floaty, the actual, you know, it's so much foam that that

Starting point is 00:27:02 latex. That latex probably would have kept, that latex probably would have kept him afloat. I'm just joking. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just trying to make a joke. Okay. It would have been filled with water and he would have sunk. Am I right?

Starting point is 00:27:13 With that whole uniform on, trying to keep the makeup clear? That's exactly right, Terry. He's trying to keep the makeup clear. Oh my gosh. What a nightmare. In the heat on top of it. Actually, the water and the heat might have been all right. But, but, but wearing the.

Starting point is 00:27:27 uniform and I think he had boots on as well but trying to keep the makeup out of the water I thought that's a thing yeah I think they probably just in terms of logistics would have shot the scene with him on the land all the dialogue all of that

Starting point is 00:27:43 and the very last thing they would have done is said okay go get in the water and swim out because they don't want to mess up the makeup yeah they're going to have to pull all that makeup off I see I noticed that with certain shots that the um the close looks up looked like they were shot either more in the morning or towards the late afternoon.

Starting point is 00:28:04 Yeah. Yeah, the light was very different from when they were in the two shot or the master. Yeah. But that's how you do. You can't shoot that stuff at noon. No, right. No. Too hot.

Starting point is 00:28:15 Or two, whatever the hottest point is. Yeah. I guess it all feels off. I think they would have, they would have finished with the swimming because I don't think he can work after that. He's got water in the makeup. He's got water in everywhere. No matter how carefully is.

Starting point is 00:28:31 You're going to have to pull that off. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember. Was Aaron's neck sealed? I can't. Did he have a thing on the back of his head? He always wore a thing on the back of his neck.

Starting point is 00:28:42 Yeah. But he didn't have one in this scene, though? Did they? Yes. He did. He had it the whole time. Yeah. All right.

Starting point is 00:28:50 All right. Because my head would have been sealed. It wouldn't have gotten any water in it. Yeah. But if you've got the neck thing, the flange on the. The back, yeah. Yeah, that would have let water and air in both. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:01 So then he could have been buoyant. Did you ever have the flange on the back? Which would have been really important. Only in TNG. TNG you did. Yeah, but never on. But your whole cranium was so beautiful, meaning to see the whole thing. It would have been nice if they had had an alternative for you with the flange on it, just for some air.

Starting point is 00:29:22 Like, if you had a scene now and then where you could have a little more air conditioning in the back, that would have been nice. Or drilled holes so you could hear. No, they offered that once, Terry. They offered. They offered to put holes in the ears so I could hear better. And I said, I turned to Karen and I said, how long would that take? She said, oh, probably add another half an hour to the makeup process. I'd rather be dead.

Starting point is 00:29:42 All right. So Garrick helps gnaug out of the water. And we cut to another scene further down the shoreline where Cisco, O'Brien, Bashir, a couple of other crew members are dragging ashore this makeshift raft with supplies. and also an injured Dax, who was very, very conveniently under a tent to go to avoid the sunlight. I love my crew. But then they handled you like a sack of potatoes. When they took you off of the raft.

Starting point is 00:30:12 Oh, I know. I thought, wow, they're handling her like she's a sack of potatoes. Well, you know what? Don't you hate it when you watch a TV show and it looks like the actors helping them or any show? It's like if you were that injured, then you have to. to be completely trust that they're going to, yeah, or drag you, but it's got to look real. Definitely. Speaking of real, when they had the wide shot of the raft getting pulled up in the big white.

Starting point is 00:30:39 You can see. What were you going to say? Oh, you're going to say you can see the ship sinking in the background? Is that what you were going to say? Oh, no, I wasn't going to say that. That was very cool. Yes. But no, it was a couple of the, I forget the character's names, but the female.

Starting point is 00:30:53 Oh, Neely and Gord. Neely and Gord did. Those two, they were coughing and, like, convulsing so big. I was like, oh, my gosh, that's a little too much. They should all be on the same page. But it did swim that thing from where the ship was. Sure, it would be hard. But it looked like a modern, it looked like a modern dance move to me.

Starting point is 00:31:14 It literally looked like, oh, okay, I'm going to be, I'm going to play devil's advocate, Robbie, and say that maybe Neely and Gordon are just not as good swimmers. So they were ingesting a lot of water. So I'm going to go with that. So that's why the excessive movements there was modern dance. Yeah. Yeah. Performance art.

Starting point is 00:31:35 Yeah. What I love about this scene is that after all this tension, especially from the end of last episode, and then the beginning of this episode, all the action, this lightness that happens in this scene where O'Brien has torn his pants. Oh, my gosh. It's just, it's a breath of fresh hair. It's almost like getting an oxygen, you know, an oxygen mask put on where you can actually breathe for a second. But a wonderful, wonderful scene.

Starting point is 00:32:03 That felt like an Avery Cullum moment. Oh, so good. They would crack themselves up just like that. Yeah. All the time. Yeah. The two of them. Yeah, their laughter together at the end was like kind of a little bit insane.

Starting point is 00:32:19 Yeah. Yeah. And I was very happy they included Lieutenant Neely in that laughter as well. Yes. Yes. She stopped her performance dance that she went into she was a part of it. They should have done way more with the two of them. It's kind of sad. It would have made the group look more. And the sacrifice at the end would have been more meaningful if we had spent more time. Yes. With them. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Now we jump over to the station. We're in curious quarters.

Starting point is 00:32:48 She wakes up at, I think it's 0500 hours when she wakes up or something like that. Yes. And this is her new station routine. She gets ready for work. She looks at her face in the mirror. She smiles in the mirror. She smiles this time. Ready for the day.

Starting point is 00:33:02 She goes into the turbo left, which is filled with everyone but a pejoran basically. It's just Gemindar and Cardassian. She gets to Ops. She sits down. One, I guess, Cardassian underling named Mavik comes over and hands her coffee. But everything is so routine. Very friendly. She's like, thanks, Mavik.

Starting point is 00:33:23 Yes. Yes. That thanks is very, for me, very good. Yeah. She's actually thanking him. She's actually doing something nice to him. Yes. Yes.

Starting point is 00:33:34 Which is antithetical to where she ends up at the end of the episode. And in fact, if I may, later on, when the image is mirrored, yeah. Later on, he doesn't. She doesn't say thank you. No. But she's compartmentalizing right now to deal with this. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:53 And she's trying to honor Cisco's orders. Correct. But I almost got that feeling. Robbie, what's the show where the people go into the office and they just do this work and they're really, they're just sort of robots. And it's the hidden agenda of like they can't leave the place or anything like that.

Starting point is 00:34:10 Yes. To me, I had a severance vibe of her going to very much like she's on her little thing, doing her thing, right? It was very, it gave me the hebie-gevies a little bit, very mechanical. So that's my feeling when I saw that.

Starting point is 00:34:23 All right. Now we jump back to the Gem Hadar headquarters, their cavern, and we are introduced to the injured Vorda. Keevan, which made me think of Kevin, which would have been a whole different episode if he was called Kevin, the Vorda. But Kiven is completely prone on a rock and very, very not... Very injured.

Starting point is 00:34:45 Yeah, very injured, big time. Ramatiklan informs him that it will be 10 days before they can attempt to reestablish communications. He also reminds Keevan that it's Ketra-Sel white time. Keevan hands Ramatiklan one vial and informs the Jem-Hadar that the white must be rationed in order to last for 10 days, possibly more than 10 days. And this is not a popular statement to the rest of the Gemadar. But he does say to them, don't worry, I'm a Vorda. I'm the Vorda.

Starting point is 00:35:17 I will take care of you. But I love, yeah, but I love the way the actor. said that line, I will take care of you, because the subtext that I read was he knows that there's not enough, that this is getting close to the end. And he played that quite well, I felt. And I think his voice, the way he spoke, the way he spoke. Wow. Yeah, his accent is the way he spoke. I can't, no, that's not how he talks. I wonder if he took a cue from Jeffrey Combs. I'm sure I did. Do you know what I think? I'm sure. Absolutely right. Of course.

Starting point is 00:35:54 He got to watch it. When I started the Ferengi, Max told me later on when he played a Ferengi that they sent him my performance to say, this is what it's like. Try to imitate that. So I'm sure they did the same thing for Chris here. Sure. They had me watch next gen to see the trill. I almost said Tribble. The treble.

Starting point is 00:36:17 Oh, I'm struggling. You play the Tribble. You played a real good treble. but it's still impressive that Chris made it his own even though he did obviously look at what Jeffrey Combs had done and again the vocal quality it was almost like he was from another era the way he was speaking to me you know

Starting point is 00:36:35 some some feet you know Vorda there it was the 20s or something yes in a way different language almost most definitely most definitely like Armist Shakespeare but you know what bothered me nitpick one of the contact moved.

Starting point is 00:36:53 Oh no. His light blue contact lens moved off to the side. And it made it look like his one eye every once in a while was a little bit wall-eyed. Oh, no. It was just like, I know what it is. Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, the makeup. Good job.

Starting point is 00:37:09 Remarkably was outstanding. Yeah, I could not see this. I really stared at the seam where the, with the fin, the gil sort of could not. You couldn't see the line? You couldn't see any. No, he really looked like that was his face. His real ear. Makeup has gotten so good.

Starting point is 00:37:28 Or I think maybe Mike Westmore had to train them all to get so good. It's gotten better and better and better as we've watched the show. The makeup, the seams being gone. Also about Chris Shea's voice, the vocal quality that he had. He was a voiceover actor. I think he was the voice of Linus on Charlie Brown. What? He probably was very good at Chris Jay, was very good at hearing Jeffrey Combs and then being

Starting point is 00:37:58 able to, as a voice actor, sort of impersonate that or translate that into it. Make it his own. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Well, he definitely made it his own. He was different than Jeffrey, but the same menacing, manipulative quality with that calm. Yes.

Starting point is 00:38:16 Yeah. Owning it in such a way that it's just terrifying, honestly. Mm-hmm. All right, we jump over to a scene in the Starfleet cave, and we come across our heroes who are gathered around a campfire or a boulder fire. Can I just say what you think about the boulder fire? Yeah, they hear it with a phaser to make it hot. That's right. If you make a rock so hot that is glowing red and you throw any fabric onto it.

Starting point is 00:38:41 It's going to evaporate immediately. Exactly. But yet, they have laid all of their everything, their long johns, their socks. Everything is laid across this glowing boulder, which should have vaporized everything. You're totally right. It looks freaking cool. It does look cool. It does look cool.

Starting point is 00:38:57 Just like seeing fire in space, which would not happen. But it's okay because it's dramatic. You're right. They were hanging near the glowing rock at that point. Like hang them near the glowing rock and let the heat. And I just say you guys are carping too much. Oh, wow. The king of nitpick is calling us out on nitpicking right now.

Starting point is 00:39:19 That's pretty funny. But I will say, I mean, it's a nice image. It's a nice shot because it reminds you of those Himalayan salt lamps that you turn on, you know, with the glow going on there. That's what I saw. I have two of those. Oh, do you? I don't think they do anything. They were in the bathroom.

Starting point is 00:39:36 They were having a sound bath in the meditation. Is that what it was? They were doing a sound bath meditation. Yeah. And Bashir's basically naked almost. I mean, there's a lot of skin being shown to this scene. I don't recall, right, but we've never had a spa scene in Voyager, Robbie, ever. Who looks great?

Starting point is 00:39:56 Neely? Neely, Neely, yeah. Neely looks like she just had a facial. Yeah, she's in her. Everyone looks, yeah, very fit and good. I don't know how mine her stays together and more. We are given to understand that you have no clothes on either in that scene. I have a blanket.

Starting point is 00:40:09 Yes. I do. I don't know what I'm pretty sure. I wear in the dress. Were we on stage 17 for all of that? Yeah. I got lucky. Oh, so lucky.

Starting point is 00:40:22 So in this scene, Garrick tells O'Brien that his sewing kit went down with the ship. So he's not going to be able to fix his torn uniform. There is a comment about how the ship is 500 meters. And I started thinking, is that just her exaggerating? Because that ship crashed just offshore. And it's 1,500 feet deep now. I thought there must be the Mariana trench on that planet right off the shore. It gets deep, really.

Starting point is 00:40:49 It just gets so deep. It happens a lot, though. Yeah, it can. Sure. Because we're on a mountain, really. You are. You are. You're just on a promontory of an island in the midst of...

Starting point is 00:40:59 It's called a continent, but... Yeah. Continent. Did you like the running bit about Cisco talking to Dax like she's staying in a hotel? I like that bit. It's cute. It was cute. I think it was a nice way to be, we can keep hope and...

Starting point is 00:41:14 Yeah. It just a little lightness because what else are. are we going to say. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is the cutest line is I would like to lodge a complaint. This bed is as hard as a rock. I thought that was so cute.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Thank you. I want to pinch your cheeks. If I was with it to have that happening. Yeah. I can't just not to see me kind of struggle to want to help. Yeah. Okay. We would have felt more natural than, oh, I just.

Starting point is 00:41:42 I'll just lay here. Right. Right. And not even like, like the surgery's done. why doesn't she have her uniform back on? What isn't she kind of starting to recover or propped up or something? I can understand why that's not happening because the symbiont is injured too and he doesn't know. And he also mentions, I like it when the story weaves into each other.

Starting point is 00:42:05 There's another scene coming up, but talks about micro stitches. Yes. So I probably shouldn't move because whatever those tiny stitches are, I'm sure. I could blow them out just from coughing or... Yeah, that's true. I think the micro-stitches line was with the Ford. Yes, yes. And not...

Starting point is 00:42:27 But I'm thinking the right thing is forming everyone. Right. Why would he have different stitches than me? He has the same. Bashir has the same equipment. Yeah. That's true. Okay.

Starting point is 00:42:39 Well, we have a nice interchange between Cisco and Dax. Very cute. The whole hotel theme thing. Bashir does tell Cisco that Dax and the Sibbeant should make a full recovery. They just need to rest in bed or on the rock bed until better. On the rocks. On the rocks. Can I have a Dax on the rocks?

Starting point is 00:43:00 Can I get a Dax on the Rocks please? Oh, that's a cocktail. That's a cocktail, Robbie. Make the Dax on the Rocks, please. That's what we need to do for our. Our rap party. Yes. Have a cocktail named after all four of a rock.

Starting point is 00:43:15 our characters. Yes. That's good. All four of our characters. And then for our minute, the drink we called the nitpicker. And everyone was like, who's going to get a double order of nitpicker? Okay. We are now jumping over to the shoreline where we have Nog and Garrick who are kind of surveying

Starting point is 00:43:32 the area looking to see what's around. They're scanning. And Nog's hanging back. He doesn't want to. He doesn't. He does not trust Garrick. No. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:43:42 No. He doesn't want to. Well, you know, we saw that episode. where Garrick threatened to kill Nag and went after the Cardassian, what was it, the the Cardassian drug that made all the Kardashians extremely violent. So, so Nag is worried. He says, I'm not going to keep, I'm not ever, I will never turn my back on you, ever again, which Garrick actually appreciates and says, you know, there's hope for you yet kind of,

Starting point is 00:44:08 you know, so he's, he's impressed with Nag. But they end up being captured by Gemhaar, who shrew, who take, turn off their shroud and immediately take them back to the gem Hedar. Sort of it looks like the tag you're it when he touched it. He was ripping off that combat, but it did look like tag you're it as well. So that's kind of funny, the game of tag with the Gem Hedar. I like the shimmer when the gem Hedar coming to, yeah, yeah, decloak. There was a lot of special effects in this episode that are subtle, but there's a lot of them.

Starting point is 00:44:40 The ship going down in the water, the ship going down to the planet. that there's a lot, the rock being heated up. There's a lot of special effects. Yeah. Is this the third episode in a row or fourth where they've really leaned hard on Dan Curry and his department? And it is joyful to me. Yeah, because they delivered the goods.

Starting point is 00:45:02 They did a great job. I like that when they spend money there. Yeah. Hey, Gary, you know what I did this morning? What? I use an app called 11 Reader to listen to a script while I, drove to work, a script that I'm prepping to direct. So you uploaded a BDF to the app and you were able to hear it while you're driving. That's a game changer, Robbie. Yeah, it's incredible. You can upload your own content like PDFs, docs, you know, fan fiction, whatever you want. Or you can listen to bestselling audiobooks with super realistic voices. It was incredible. I had Bert Reynolds read my script. How would you compare this to other reading apps that are out there? Oh, I've tried them. I've tried the other apps and you can pay 15 bucks a month. month, you get one credit, one book, or you could use 11 reader where they've got over 200,000

Starting point is 00:45:50 premium titles. They've got all the best sellers. You know, they've got a free plan that packs incredible value and an ultra subscription for only $11 a month. So you start with a free 10 hours of your own content, or you can upgrade to Ultra for 11 bucks a month and unlock unlimited uploads plus 20 hours of premium audiobooks every month. That's amazing. 11 bucks, it sounds like you're getting more and you're paying less than the others. Yes. and you get Bert Reynolds to read to you. Hey, who's going to argue with that? Check out 11 reader.

Starting point is 00:46:18 Use promo code podcast. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T and get your first two months for only $1. We jump over the Gemadar Cavern and we have Keevan, interrogating Nag and Garek. Nog only responds with his name, rank and number.

Starting point is 00:46:33 Very formal. Super cute. But you know what you know. And did you notice? Like, oh, shut up. But did you notice? Would he respond? When he wouldn't answer and just responded with his name, rank and number,

Starting point is 00:46:47 Ramatoclon pulls his knife out, ready to to literally end, and, uh, and, uh, Nog's life or, you know, shut him up in one way or the other. Uh, but it is Garrick who sort of, you know, shuts him up and says all the lies that he starts spewing out of his mouth. His name is, is, is Karam. His name, he's, he's actually a member of the old obsidian order. He was captured by Starfish. It's a prisoner.

Starting point is 00:47:14 Doesn't he say his name is Kinar? Oh, yeah. Kahnar, but it's Karnar then. Kama. Kama. Sorry. I said Kare. I said Kare.

Starting point is 00:47:23 I would have said something. But if it's Kamaar, I would have said something else. It's Kamaar. Yeah. Knaar is the drink that the Kardassians drink. That's right. That's why I thought that would be clever. And I said,

Starting point is 00:47:31 and Dama is. D'Mare is. Casey. Casey Biggs. And so when he said, whatever he said, now I don't. Come on. Kumar.

Starting point is 00:47:40 I thought he said, DeMar at first. And I thought. But he's pretending to be the other guy. He's pretending to be someone else, period. Now I think Damar has a business opportunity. He can create Damar's canar, like his very own line of Cardassian liquor. All right.

Starting point is 00:47:59 Well, in this interrogation, Garrick tries to lie, which he's basically busted because Keevan says, okay, so if you really are who you say you are, how do you explain this? And he pulls up the Starfleet Com badge. which Garrick says I was hoping you wouldn't ask about that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. That was not a very good cover. Like usually.

Starting point is 00:48:22 No, I mean, but he's better at it. It's kind of perfect because he didn't see it coming. I like it when characters that are always super clever have moments like that. Yeah. Like, I'm caught. I'm caught. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:35 Can I tell you? It makes it feel more real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true. does have one final question to Garrick. And he says, my final question to you is, is there a doctor

Starting point is 00:48:48 in your unit? To which Garrick says, yes. Immediately, Nag is like, Gary, what are you saying? Stop talking. And at that point, Kiva says, relax, young man, that comment is what saved your life right now. Don't be so hard on him, because now that I know there's a doctor, now you two are worth something to me now. And in that moment, what before? Before Gary, before Andy says yes, you can see in his mind very quickly, he weighs that question and very quickly says yes. Yes. So he knows. But it's measured.

Starting point is 00:49:25 It's measured. It's measured. It's measured. It's measured quality to it. Yeah. He knows what he's doing and he's doing it with thought. Yeah. Right.

Starting point is 00:49:32 Absolutely, Armin. Keevan. Keev and then gets the Gemmaidaar to take both Nag and Garrick to a different part of the cavern. And he dismisses all the other Gemadar in order to speak to her matto-clambe. by himself, which he does. Do you see, though, when he says, Kevan says, take them to a secure area. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:49:49 And one of the Gem Hadar picks Aaron up. And Aaron helps. Did you see that? Yeah, he jumps up. Aaron just believed. Yeah. Helps him too much. Terfair.

Starting point is 00:50:01 He also yelled too much. But it made me laugh, though. I thought it was funny. Taffair talked about being treated like a sack of potatoes. In this scene, Nagy is a sack of potatoes. The way it looks, he just pulls them up. And it was really, it was actually remit. Ramataclan who does that.

Starting point is 00:50:14 Oh, was it? It was, uh, yeah. Back to the cavern. When Keevan gives Ramatiklan, um, the next mission, that mission is to assess the strengths of the Starfleet unit with specific orders not to engage them. Do not engage. Just go and figure things out and see what's going on. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:33 Uh, all right. We jump to back on the station. We're in Odo's security office, but we start with an exterior shot of the station first before we go to Odo's office. and there are Gem Hadar fighters sort of passing or patrolling by in the background, which is really weird to see that. Every time we see the station, we see those fighters. And again, special effects.

Starting point is 00:50:53 Yes, yes. Although they changed it up. So this time we see Gem Hadar fighters in the background. The next time we see the station, we actually see both Cardassian ships in the foreground and Gemadar in the background. So they did a couple of different shots there. So visual effects did a great job in this episode. So in this scene, Jake is in this scene.

Starting point is 00:51:12 and he is interviewing Kira and Odo regarding the current political situation faced by Bejor. We do find out that a group of Vorda facilitators are scheduled to head to Bejor to help out. Bayjord's been having problems with getting supplies and whatnot, so the Dominion have offered the Vorda to come and help out. Jake brings up Vedic Yasm's concern that the Vorda presence basically amounts to the beginnings of a dominion occupation of Bejor. And Jake says that the Vedic has actually organized a demonstration tomorrow on the promenade, which both Odo and Kira have no idea about. I can't believe that neither Kira nor Odo knew about this protest march by Vedic. Yazim, the next day, yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:01 It just doesn't make sense. You have to get permission. You have to get permission to do things on the station. And Odo would be the one signing off on it. Yes. It wouldn't be Odo, not anymore. Oh. It would be Wayoon and, and, uh, and, uh, and that would have been,

Starting point is 00:52:17 Golducat. Yeah, Dakot and Waye, they would have had that conversation in one of their, whatever that meeting is. Yes. Yes, exactly. Exactly. So I don't understand how they're in ignorance about this. And, and I mean, Goldaqat keeps a tight, tight ship on the, rain.

Starting point is 00:52:34 Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I know that's what you were thinking. Thank you. Thank you. you'll help me later. I will help you later, but you were right about race.

Starting point is 00:52:45 Jake ends up pushing a little bit too hard with his questions, which then makes Kira end the interview session, and Odo agrees. And that's the end of that scene. We're out of that scene. Jake, at the very end of the scene, he in the foreground, turns to himself and goes, wrong question, Jerry.

Starting point is 00:53:01 Yeah, that was cute. And ironically, for me, I actually thought those were great questions. And I love the fact that Odo and Kira had to defend themselves in what was a less than perfect choices that they had made, which is indicative, important to the rest of the episode. But I thought his questions were really good ones. Once I have often wanted to ask the characters myself in different episodes and go, well, why did you do this? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:36 Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's always nice to see Jake in any episodes. So since he's not available in a lot of the ones we've reviewed so far. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. We jump over to Starfleet Cave headquarters and O'Brien and Cisco are brainstorming.

Starting point is 00:53:49 The Batcave. The Batcave. Yep, they're in the Batcave. O'Brien and Cisco brainstormer about how to establish communications as they discuss. Gordon rushes in to report that both Garrick and Nog have gone missing. They haven't responded to any hails. They don't know what's going on. So that jumps to the next scene.

Starting point is 00:54:06 the search party. And before you jump to the next scene, wouldn't it have been nice for Dax to have been in that discussion as well? Mm-hmm. Huh. She's there, so why not? And she has often told us about how you can,

Starting point is 00:54:20 you know, get communications up. So she's right there. Why not take advantage of her expertise? Of her knowledge, yeah. Just a few lines or just a line. Right. Chief, did you try blah, blah, blah. Yeah, just one line would have been great.

Starting point is 00:54:35 Agreed. Agreed because you're not unconscious. I think you're out. No, I'm conscious. You're totally conscious. You know, you're sick and you have the flu or I mean, I've had COVID. You could still, your brain still works. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:49 Maybe you're slower or you're sleeping a lot. That would have been funny to her if you were going through the fever and you were kind of delirious and you were just sending or saying random things in the background, which would have been hilarious. If you connect a banana to a chestnut. You could use that as a wire to, I don't know, just weird McGuiver type comments in the background would have been funny. That makes sense. In addition to that, besides possibly giving advice, I would have liked to have seen you a little bit more uncomfortable, perhaps in this moment.

Starting point is 00:55:23 Yes. I mean, he has promised. They made a big deal. He has promised, I'm going to get you out of here, old man. Right. Well, really, I don't see the need anymore to get her out of there. You all have to get out. but not the need to take care of an injured old friend.

Starting point is 00:55:39 Yeah. Okay. But to that point, maybe it would have been better if I was even more injured or unconscious. She's in a coma now. We don't know what's going on. You know, anyway, then there's more, we got to get out of here to save the life. The stakes are higher then. Yes, make the stakes higher.

Starting point is 00:56:02 Yeah. There you go. All right. So now we're on the shoreline. The search party is out there looking for Garrick and Nog. And the, I guess the tricorder of Neely detects the Gemadar or detects life signs up in the higher ground. And Cisco asks, is it Gemadar? She said, I think so.

Starting point is 00:56:23 Well, sure enough, now we have a reverse angle. We have the Lamarisan who cannot take the fact that there are enemy walking towards him without firing at them. He does this. The actor does this, X-teen does this, his body does this jerk before he's like, I can't take it. So he's almost going through withdrawal symptoms,

Starting point is 00:56:43 which is causing him, yeah. No white makes a mean gemadar. That's for sure. So he takes the first shot and then the firefight just happens. Everyone's shooting at everyone else. And you said it was how hot? 126 degrees Fahrenheit.

Starting point is 00:57:00 128. 128. 128 degrees Fahrenheit. It's just, so it's like we're in the Sahara Desert. I don't even remember LA being that hot, getting that hot. But they were in Sun Valley, so they were in the valley, which is even hotter than the rest of LA. Like, yeah, Malibu's not going to be 1.28.

Starting point is 00:57:16 Making the wind stop. That's right. It's like a thermal insulation of mountain is what it is. Wow. Horrible. I can't imagine being in that makeup and in that costume. That alone is just incredible, gobsmacking. at their amazing performances under those conditions.

Starting point is 00:57:36 Yeah. And if you look at the Gemadar uniforms, their clothing, all of that looks like it's trapping even more heat. It's just like why they're using leather and just like, ah, too bad it wasn't made of gauze, which is what they needed in 128 degrees. My goodness, okay. All right, so as they're trying to, you know, fight,

Starting point is 00:57:55 this firefight continues, we do, we cut over to Romanticle who is yelling at them, Stop. What is going on? And he's very angry. And this is in the conversation between Ramatiklan and Lamar's son, who is now very regretful that he did take the first shot, you have a lot of close-ups back and forth, and you can really see Phil Morris's eye with his left eye completely red.

Starting point is 00:58:21 And it's just, oh, my gosh. It just, it looks like he has pink eye, but that's again. It looks like it hurts really bad. Oh, my gosh, yeah. And for him to just work through that pain, good for him. Basically, after everything stops, that's when Ramatclan says, we're going to lays down some suppressing fire. We're going to withdraw. But I want all of you to shroud before you do it.

Starting point is 00:58:41 And then we realize no one can trowd. They're just too weak without Catchersall White. They can't do a lot of the things that they're normally used to doing. And they get out of there. They hightail it out of there. Cisco does clock that. Cisco's like, hmm, they're not camouflage. Okay.

Starting point is 00:58:59 O'Brien sees, why aren't they camouflaged? Francisco then says, huh, maybe this is something that's going to be, you know, something that helps us out. And yes, we do learn that it does help them out later because if you can't camouflage, you can't hide at all. We're back in the Geminar Cavern, back in the Dominion Cave headquarters. Keevan is furious that they disobeyed his order to not engage the enemy. He wants to know who fired that first shot.

Starting point is 00:59:26 Ramatoclon will not give up the name. He stands firm and he says that the guilty soldier, will be disciplined. And that is my job. It is not your job. You command us, but it is my job as the leader of this Gemadar unit

Starting point is 00:59:40 to discipline my, one of my men, one of my guys. And he's even more honorable than that. He said, you can discipline me. Instead, that's right,

Starting point is 00:59:49 that's right. That's what he said. You know, whatever you're going to do to that person, do it to me. I'm their leader. He's so into, you know,

Starting point is 00:59:56 into, he's such a cool character. Yeah. Yeah. He's got such integrity. I know. Such honor. You're absolutely right, Armand.

Starting point is 01:00:06 Yeah, he's by the book and really respects the rules and the structure and and defers to that. And he's been trained to do that. So part of that is honorable. Part of that is just upbringing. Brainwashing. But he seems very intelligent. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:24 And you're right. As an audience, we don't want him to die. We want him to live. It's like this guy, he's got some redeeming qualities about him. him. We respect this. Yeah. Yeah. We have an exterior shot of the station and then we end up in Kira's quarters where she and Vedic Yasm are debating what needs to be done in regards to the dominion occupation and they are not on the same page. Kira does not see what Vedic Yasm can see.

Starting point is 01:00:48 Kira also can't share what her orders are from Cisco. I thought about that when I was watching. There is part of what she can't say. Right. And she's trying to honor those orders in the best way she's. can. So I believe that's how she's compartmentalizing it and getting through it is just ignoring all the stuff that she used to see before. That makes sense. And the other occupation, because this is an occupation. 100%. It does seem like Kira's the way she's written and also the way that Nana plays her in this story and in this scene in particular is very passive, which just like as a fan of the show and watching the show now with you guys, you know, it seems out of character to me,

Starting point is 01:01:35 the way that Kieris Maving, I'm like, snap out of it. Come on, you're a fighter. Go fight. Yeah, but at the same time, we know her so well. Yeah. We know this is really hard for her. Yeah. Right. And that's why anything that's that hard, the only way to deal with it is just to keep moving forward and have those blinders on. That's what I believe for watching this. And I will differ with that in the sense that in that first shot when she wakes up, she smiles. Another day. Everything's fine. It is the influence of Jake and the Vedic that are taking the blinders off of her eyes.

Starting point is 01:02:14 And she's waking up to what the reality. Yes, absolutely. But I think she needs them to shake her this much because she can't get through it any other way. It's almost like an unconscious. You're right, but it's an addendum to what I said. Yeah, like she's tuning out her instincts. She has to just shut it off. Yeah, that makes sense.

Starting point is 01:02:37 I just want to say, I want to give kudos to Ron Moore's writing. At the very end, Kira says, Vedic, you just don't understand. Yasm says, you are right. I don't. Maybe tomorrow we will both understand. Because I feel that Yazim already knows what Yasm is going to do. That's right. The way that's written is.

Starting point is 01:02:53 Of course she does. This foreshadowing. This probably seals it. Yes. But this conversation seals it. Oh, it's sealed what she was going to do. She has to do something drastic. Drastic.

Starting point is 01:03:05 And again, just the way the writers wrote that, it's just I thought it was such a good job, really. Okay. Back to the Batcave, as Robbie said. Cisco Starfleet Headquarters, A.K.A. the Batcave. Cisco talks to O'Brien about establishing defensive positions. Dax says she will stay in the cave and guard her clothes, which was very funny. Neely reports that a Gemadar soldier has arrived and is requesting an audience with Cisco. Ramatoclon enters in the next shot with Neely guarding Ramatoclon.

Starting point is 01:03:40 Interesting. It just brings Ramatclan right into the heart of their bat cave. Cisco dismisses Neely to speak with Ramatiklan alone. Well, not really alone since Dax is in the background recuperating. Romatica Laughan informs Cisco that Keevan wants to trade Garrick and Nog for the doctor in Cisco. Cisco then has this extremely long and interesting conversation. It's a long scene. It's a deep conversation.

Starting point is 01:04:04 Yes, it is. With Romanticlon. It's a really good scene. Yeah. I can feel that in being in Phil Morris's shoes, he must have thought, I get something to really work on in this scene. So it's a good one between the two. With Avery. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:04:19 Yes. Mm-hmm. And there's Dax laying in the background this whole time. That's all I could think of. On her. Guarding the clothes. Guarding her clothing on her, comfy rock bed.

Starting point is 01:04:30 Woo. I like to know where my super handsome guy with the grapes is. Oh, yeah. From that other scene. That's what you needed. The holographic grape giver and fanter is what a bit? Someone from Riza. Someone for Riza.

Starting point is 01:04:48 Well, in that conversation, Cisco does, inform or tell Romatoclon about a very manipulative Vorta, who in the end was killed by the GemmaDar first that he was commanding. So he's sort of putting a little bit of doubt into Romatclan's head. He's trying to see that if he can pull it. Bring him to the back. Not so much of doubt, although doubt is absolutely true, but also opportunity. Opportunity. Excuse me. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. That is a better word. It's been done before. There's a precedent.

Starting point is 01:05:20 That's right. That's right. So there you go. Ramat Khan does assure Cisco that both he and Bashir will be allowed to leave after their meeting with Keevan, after Keevan is treated by Bashir. And so Cisco does, in the very end, agree to the trade, which will happen in an hour. Next shot on the shoreline. We start with an establishing shot of the shoreline. And what a shot. We see them in the distance.

Starting point is 01:05:44 Talk about this, Robbie. Talk about this. Well, they were probably filming from way up on the top of the cliff on some long lenses there. and I don't know if any of this dialogue was even scripted to be. I was going to say it was all ADR afterwards. Yeah, it looked, it looks kind of ADR-ish. Yeah, but still, Robbie, we've... They could have been miced.

Starting point is 01:06:05 Yeah, but I love this scene because at Voyager, we never used long lenses like that. It's so cinematic. It's beautiful. It really was. Do you think, Mike, where the location manager saw that strip of land and said we have to use that somehow? That's very possible. I bet 100%.

Starting point is 01:06:24 So we go from that super, super long lens. Then we jump over to another long lens. And this is Ramatoclon and company releasing Garrick and Nog for the exchange. Then they start walking. Now the shot is almost like as if someone's looking through binoculars at them. It gets a little bit more close up, right, with that longer lens. Yeah. And they do the cross.

Starting point is 01:06:45 And again, those comments definitely seem like ADR. Doctor, are you two all right? Perfect. How are you? I felt better. And everything was sort of done rushed so that it would match their crossing because it happens very quickly. But I did enjoy seeing this scene. It just looks so cinematic to me.

Starting point is 01:07:01 Really good. Something so simple, so well done. The dialogue here doesn't feel like it drives the story forward at all. It definitely feels like ADR to me. Just added. Yeah, don't you know what to? When Garrick says, perfect, how are you? I kind of, every time I watched it, I wanted Bashir to be at that level of humor in Satan.

Starting point is 01:07:21 never felt better. Right. I felt better. Right. It's almost like he didn't play along with him, you know. Yeah, I wish they would have written it so he did because that would have been, I don't know, in character. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:33 Yeah. But it is in character for Cisco to check out on two of his people being captured. Are you all right? Yes, we're all right. Okay. Oh, of course. I'm just talking about the Bashir line. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:44 And also, if we, if it is ADR, like we, sarcastic. Right. But if it is ADR and as we surmised, Sid could have had his ADR session before Garrick did, so he couldn't even hear how Garrick said it. So that could have affected his reading. Back on the promenade on the station, Kieran Odoer on the promenade keeping an eye out for the protesters. It seems like nothing's going to happen. But Jake arrives and informs Kira that Vedig Yasm will begin the protest at exactly 1,400 hours.

Starting point is 01:08:17 And sure enough, Yasm appears on the upper level of the promenade standing precariously. on the outside of the railing. And we also notice there is a rope tied around her neck. Into the bar as well. Yes, into the bar. She exclaims that evil must be opposed and leaps off the railing. Okay, this obviously was disturbing on many levels. But the first thing I thought of, and I can't be the only one,

Starting point is 01:08:41 was that scene in the omen where the nanny says, this is all for you, Damien. And she jumps in it was like, Oh, yes. That's the first thing I thought of, and it made it even worse. Yeah. So have we ever had a suicide on any of the Star Trek in the franchise before this? Because this was.

Starting point is 01:09:00 Yes. Yeah. Yeah. In T&G there was. A friend of mine played a half alien, half human who jumped into this warp core. Yes. So it has happened before. Oh, my goodness.

Starting point is 01:09:12 This is a little different than just suicide. This is a protest. This is a protest. To make a statement. To make a statement. Specifically to wake Kira up, really. I mean, it was very much directed towards her and the rest of the Bajorans

Starting point is 01:09:25 who were kind of content with what, you know, status quo at this point. Yeah, yeah, this is, it's very upsetting and I think shot in a way that is visually, it's simple, but Mike Vahar did a great job of communicating the kind of shock of this moment. And the slow motion of it, make sure that you don't miss it. Yes. But this is also a protest. This isn't a suicide. for me is someone who's lost hope.

Starting point is 01:09:53 This person in this character has not lost hope. She's making a point. Yeah. Yeah, very true. It is a protest and it sure wakes up Kira. And I love how this shot on Kira and Odo Slow Mo. Slow Mo. Her reaction.

Starting point is 01:10:09 Yeah. Because what a beautiful choice to use slowmo. It's just so important to use it judiciously. Thank you, Armin. because it makes it so much more powerful. Now we're even. I just look at it as we're like, you know, fricking frack.

Starting point is 01:10:27 We need to help each other from time to time. It all works out. I'm for that, yes. I do think that Mike Vahar handled that scene very well in terms of how he shot it, especially with just showing the feet at the end of Yasm and the hat falling to the ground. That was the, that's all you need.

Starting point is 01:10:48 But that hat really was the perfect little extra thing to have the final period into the scene. Like the hat. I thought it was so good. And I think your point, Armin, about it's a protest. Like that's really important here. Like we have seen historically there's some very famous protests of people. Starving themselves. Starving themselves or different ways in Vietnam.

Starting point is 01:11:15 I think there were some monks over there. Monsa put them emulated themselves to make a protest, yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh, that's a better parallel. That's very upsetting. Yeah, so the kind of get people's attention on this issue. Wake up. Yeah, wake up.

Starting point is 01:11:32 This is so important that I'm willing to do something like this. Brastic. Drastic to get people's attention. Yeah, very moving scene, a very effective scene. Next, we're back at the Gemadar Cavern, the Gemmada Cave. The evil bat cave. The evil bat cave or the Joker's cave. Ramatiklan returns to the Gemadar cave, the evil bat cave with Cisco and Bashir.

Starting point is 01:11:56 Bashir scans Keevan and announces that he needs immediate surgery, at which point, all the Gemadars start surging towards them. Bashir thinks they're trying to protect Keevan. And Keevon's like, oh, no, they're just curious. They've never seen the inside of a Vorda, which was kind of morbid, I think. but, you know, it is what it is. The one thing I noticed in the scene was all around the little containers they had are the dog food containers that we keep Walter's dog food in.

Starting point is 01:12:25 No way. Exactly the same. It's the same. The big round screw on top. It's the big plastic. Okay. Those are dog food containers. Did you notice, too, in some of the scenes where we're hiding behind big boulders

Starting point is 01:12:41 that some of them look a little too dappled? Yeah. Yes. Like they brought in fiberglass, bold, yes. Oh. I didn't notice that. Very smooth. I just want to say this now.

Starting point is 01:12:53 Yes. Yes. So Robbie, did the dog bowl scenes, did the dog bowls kind of pull you out a little bit because you're like, those are exactly what we use a little bit in this same? They didn't pull me out, but they were using it to put like medical, like to place things on. And I know it's hard to place things on those containers because I've tried to do it before when I'm feeding the dog.

Starting point is 01:13:12 Put my coffee down. and there's nowhere to put it. Yeah. So I was like, that's a really bad choice for a table type thing. Right, right. Okay. Well, we jump back to the station and we are in Kira's quarters. She is going through the motions of her regular routine yet again,

Starting point is 01:13:31 waking up, getting ready for work, entering the turbo lift. And not so happy this time. Not as happy this time, exactly. With a new awareness. Let's put it that way. That's what she has. She gets into that turbo lift filled with. Gemadar, Cardassians. She's sitting at her op station, accepting the drink from Mavik,

Starting point is 01:13:49 but not thanking him. She looks around ops and sees only Gemadar and Kardashians on every single level. It is as if Yasm's sacrifice has opened her eyes and she gets up and leaves ops. She sees it all with a new point of view. Yeah, new POV. With her integrity. And that point of view was brilliantly illustrated by Mike Fahar's short clips of each of the different aliens on ours. Yes. I thought the way he did those inserts were just perfect. And Nana was directed beautifully as well through all of this. Now we're back at the Gemmendar Cave, the anti-back cave, and Keevan regains consciousness.

Starting point is 01:14:34 Evil. It's an evil. Evil back cave. It's not really evil. Yes, that's where The Borta is But we have to realize That some of the Jim Hadar Have moral rectitude as well Can I say the anti-bat cave It's the opposite of the other one then

Starting point is 01:14:54 Okay Yes, you can see the bizarreo I'm very simplistic in my In my Dillistic thinking I'm very simplistic I need good guys and bad guys Right and wrong

Starting point is 01:15:08 Kevin regains consciousness post-surgery and is delighted to be alive. He dismisses his men to speak with Cisco and Bashir. He shows them that there's only one vial of Ketra-cell-white remaining. And when it runs out, the Gemadar will turn into violent animals who won't stop until everyone is dead. And then they will turn on themselves and everyone will die. Keevan has a plan, though. He will send the Gemma-Dar to attack in the morning. he will give Cisco all the specifics of where and how they will attack so that Cisco and company can ambush them and eliminate them, which Cisco is not happy to hear.

Starting point is 01:15:46 No. That's cheating. It's cheating. And Keevan says he will then surrender to Cisco and give him the communications array that needs to be fixed, you know, the Dominion, the Gemadar communications equipment so that O'Brien can work on repairing them. And he will be a prison of war. and the Gemadarcom system will help them get a hold of Starfleet to get rescued off of this deserved planet. Yes, yes. Or Martok.

Starting point is 01:16:11 Martok. Save us. Martok. Yeah. To get you a comfortable bed. Yeah. You don't have to sleep on a rock bed anymore. I have to heal all the ways.

Starting point is 01:16:21 So next time I see Wharf, I'm good and ready. Yeah. Okay, that's just gross. I'm sorry. So Cisco listens to all this. He's not happy about it. But at the very end, Kiven does say, whether you decide to ambush them or not, I'm still going to send them tomorrow morning. So either you can kill them or you will be killed.

Starting point is 01:16:42 Your choice. So he kind of, you know, it's sort of a, he's got Cisco between a rock and a hard place. There's not much he can do. We jump over to... Actually, the good guy's bat cave. The good guy. The Batcave is there. We're back in the Batcave.

Starting point is 01:16:55 Our heroes. How about that. Cisco briefs the troops on the Gemadar plan of attack. They will position themselves for the ambush. There's a little banter back and forth here. People are not sure about the ambush and the massacre, but guess what? I think the morality. The morality of it.

Starting point is 01:17:11 Gordon got a few lines in. That he did. But Garrick is the one that says, let me just put it to you straight. We need to survive. We have to do what we may not want to do. I like that Nog is kind of sticking up for the integrity of, you know. Yes. Of Starfleet because he says, we're not the Gem Hedars.

Starting point is 01:17:32 You know, it's our duty to, and Cisco doesn't want to engage. He's like, this is not a democracy. Nope. I'm deciding. Yep. Mm-hmm. This isn't a vote. Right.

Starting point is 01:17:41 Now we jump to an exterior shot of the station, and this is what I was talking about before, Armand. Now we see both Gem Hadar and Cardassian ships patrolling in the foreground and the background. Super cool visual effects shot. So now we're in the Promenon, the upper level, and it is Odo and Kira having a little conversation. Are they in the spot? were Nog and Jake. Yeah, they are.

Starting point is 01:18:04 Yeah, I like that. It's an easier shot. I mean, yeah, on the promenade, there was a loop around going over the overpass to the lower area of the promenade. And there was this great little spot that across so you could shoot there. So it was great to have the camera equipment there. So you could shoot them in that spot. I just think that spot was used a lot.

Starting point is 01:18:29 And for good reason, because of their space. space for the camera. Well, it was a great, I don't know why. I connected the Jake and Nog, hanging out and sort of like that, that kind of emotional connecting. Yeah. And then there's Odo and Kira doing it in that sort of emotionally connecting spot. Right. I thought it was cool. So you reminisce. Yeah, it is a nice spot. It is a nice spot. But, you know, this conversation is really Kira talking to Odo about how she, her eyes are open now. She can't believe she didn't really stand up that she's been going through the motions. And they resolve to actually go to a separate, more private place to talk about planning the resistance.

Starting point is 01:19:10 And Odo takes a little Lombridge. He thinks that she's sort of including him. And she's very adamant about the fact that no, I only mean me. I do not mean you. I'm the one that told you to be part of that council. Yeah, yeah. That's, I thought, very meaningful as well. I also like that, like, in a Broadway,

Starting point is 01:19:30 way, Kira's talking about not being a collaborator, not being passive, that she needs to fight. Right. But yet her performance is so quiet. I love the contrast in the very quiet way. The strength and the conviction, the quiet conviction she's got, even when she's talking about fighting. You know, because it'd be easy to get into, you know, line readings like, well, you know, someone's right. I have to do something. I have to do something and fights back.

Starting point is 01:20:00 Yeah. She didn't do that. But the last line in the scene is indicative of why she has to do it the way she did because they are in a very public place. And even if there are no Ferengis in the scene, there are people who could overhear that kind of. There's Gemitar and Cardassian with ears walking past. She's had to look deep within herself, especially with the Vedic,

Starting point is 01:20:26 making such a protest. Yeah. I'm sure there was initial shame around it. Sure. After her conversation with the Vedic and then witnessing the solution to make such a big protest, that that had to weigh super heavy on her. Her decision is deep, rooted in her history and everything. I like her. She's already done that.

Starting point is 01:20:51 She knows she has to fight smart this time. Yeah. I like her choice a lot. That's great. Yeah. Okay. We jump back to the shoreline and all of our heroes are in place. They're hidden, ready to have all the Gemadar. With our fake folders. Yes. You're fake folders. The Gemadar walking down. They're in the low ground. They don't have the advantage. And this is when Cisco yells out that he wants to talk to Romatklon, who agrees. They meet. And Cisco says he doesn't have to do this. Cisco says, we have the jump on you. This is basically the end.

Starting point is 01:21:28 I didn't want to say that. But this is basically this is going to be the end of this Jim Hedar unit. And, you know, the whole thing, Cisco argues. He says, listen, we have a doctor. We can sedate all of you. Then when we get saved, we can put you in stasis. So the Ketracell-White withdrawal symptoms can be, I don't know if it's negated, but definitely eased to the point where they're not going crazy.

Starting point is 01:21:54 And so he offers this to him, but Romotoclon doesn't take it. Orders are orders. He's still loyal. And he says to the point that he was born loyal, that this is how he is. This is his internal wiring and he cannot get out of that. He's going to have to do what he's going to have to do. I love how honest Cisco is here and straightforward. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:15 And trying so hard to save their lives. Yeah. It's sad. It really is. He's come to respect Phil's character. Absolutely. And we have come to respect Phil's character as well. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:28 Yeah, we want to live. When Phil's character says, because Cisco says, you know, you don't need to give Keevan your unwavering loyalty. And Romano Klan says, he didn't have to earn my loyalty. He had my loyalty from the moment I was conceived. I'm Jane Hidar. He's Ford up. That's the order of things.

Starting point is 01:22:47 Yeah. Like, wow. That's crazy. Yeah. And that further line that he says, you know, it is not my life to give up, Captain. It never was. It was like, oh, my goodness. Wow. Yeah. He's committed. He's definitely committed. I just love the writing here. When Sisko does return over to the rest of his party, O'Brien says, what did he say? Sisko says all the wrong things. Again, the writing here. I just love it. We flashed, we flip back over to Romotoclon, who turns to his men, his troops, and says, our death. His glory to the founders, and he just starts running at full speed. And it's just, it just makes you want to cry. It's just too, we don't want him to die. They get all taken out in a flurry of phasers and dust and like the clouds of dust.

Starting point is 01:23:37 Yeah. You know. That was cool. They disappear into the dust. It was. I asked, though, I have this recollection that those rifles, those gigantic rifles that we have, didn't they have, like, like a big shoot. I mean, not just one shot,

Starting point is 01:23:54 but didn't they have like an array that comes out? Oh, you mean like a wide dispersal pattern? Yeah. You'll probably do a setting like that, yeah. Yeah. That, well, maybe that would have looked too. Right.

Starting point is 01:24:08 Gatling gun. It looks like a shootout. It looks like a shootout, then a gaddling gun that takes out. Yeah, they just take them all out in one second. But I think those rifles are capable of that kind of crazy. Yeah, I think you're right. I would have shot them coming forward as opposed to shooting them from behind.

Starting point is 01:24:24 Yes, I agree. That's the tiny, tiny little thing that I would disagree with Mike Fahar. Shoot them coming at the camera as opposed to them leaving the camera. Yeah. Yeah, and add that shot later, but not as the opening shot to them charging. So we can see the conviction in their faces. Yes. Right, yeah.

Starting point is 01:24:43 Well, after all the smoke is cleared, all the Gemmador are now dead. and Gordon, poor Ensign Gordon, is also dead. We didn't even get to see how he passed, but he's gone. Cisco does order Lieutenant Neely to form a burial detail, so he wants the burial, the Jamadar, because he is now... I'm not so sure about that. I think you're right.

Starting point is 01:25:04 I think you're right. When I saw it the second time, I thought, is it the burial detail for everybody, or is it just for Ensign Gordon? Oh, yeah. It's probably for everybody. Right. just go, it's probably for everybody.

Starting point is 01:25:18 Right. And his respect for Romatclon, too, right? That's right. But I wasn't sure. They might get a mass grave and all those rocks. And Anthony Gordon's going to get his own spot. Yeah. Well, that makes sense. It makes sense. I mean, whenever those things happen, I think, look at the landscape. Who's going to be able to dig that?

Starting point is 01:25:36 Yeah. Exactly. Honest. To Pete, seriously, it should be more like a Viking funeral. Like, just let them light them on fire and put them out to the ocean. Yeah. You've got that raft that they've come up with. There it is. There it is. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:25:51 Oh, my God. Listen to how morbid we are. It is, I think, a disappointment. There's nothing wrong with the episode. But a disappointment, we didn't get to know Gordon better. Yeah. He just seems like a red shirt that is just shot. And even when we see the battle, the shoot out of the O'Kale,

Starting point is 01:26:15 they the the jemadar only get one or two shots off before they're they're all gunned down so one of those original shots has to take gordon out and and i i wish we had heard from gordon or someone we get a little of it on on nog's face but of how how dangerous this is and and that he gave his life for this. And he didn't have to die. If, if, uh, if Phil's character had agreed to being sedated and put to sleep, then I mean, I think that's what Cisco was aiming for is to, is to keep anyone from dying. Not just his men, but.

Starting point is 01:26:57 Oh, yeah, everybody. 100%. He, yeah, very much fought for them to be alive. But I, and I would have liked to have seen some regret, some. pathos over Gordon's death, which there's a tiny bit of. Yeah. But I would have liked to have seen the loss of one of his men affects his his score a tiny bit more.

Starting point is 01:27:22 I agree. Well, that's it, everyone. We have come to the end of this episode. Yes, yes, yes. Let's talk about theme slash lesson slash moral of the episode. I guess we'll start with Armin, Terry, Robbie, than myself. Uh, theme. Yes.

Starting point is 01:27:40 Stick to one's moral compass. That's one, two. A lot of time, a moral compass is all that separates a hero from being a villain. Wow. I like that. I do like that. Terefer. Fight smart for keep your integrity.

Starting point is 01:28:02 Oh, I like that. Nice. Thank you. Yeah, but it's very much like Armands, although I feel like yours is very, very, eloquent permit. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. A good friend, Terry Farrell. Robbie. What is what is your my lesson? My lesson, I wrote down true freedom requires the freedom to choose. Oh, amen to that. Because it's, yeah, it's our, it's our, um, Jem Hidar. Yeah. Not really having freedom. He does have integrity. But what broke my heart was he didn't feel like he had the freedom to choose to make his own choices.

Starting point is 01:28:39 And I think that tied into Kira's journey as well. She did decide to maybe not follow her orders exactly or whatever, and she made the choice. Yes. Very good. My lesson comes from Nog, and that is, never turn your back on Garrick. That's it. Yes. Our Patreon poll winner for the theme slash lesson slash more of this episode is

Starting point is 01:29:09 submitted by Martin de Plays, and that is, blind obedience is not virtue. It's vulnerability. Oh. Hmm. Interesting. Yeah. An honorable mention theme moral submitted by Kit Marie. Loyalty is not the same as wisdom.

Starting point is 01:29:28 Hmm. Thank you, Kit Marie. Thank you, Kit. Yeah. Thank you to everyone for tuning into this recap, a discussion of rocks and shoals. And thank you to Armin and Terre Fair for joining us. It's been wonderful having both of you here. It's always great to have both of you.

Starting point is 01:29:42 Always a treat to get everybody together. Get the whole band. We like the whole band. Great fun. Yes. Yes. I like it too. We have the most fun when we're all together.

Starting point is 01:29:51 That is for sure. All right. Well, next time, community is it. Family is it. Next time we will be recapping and discussing the episode's sons and daughters. And that will be with tear fair. So we'll have tear fair with us on that one. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material.

Starting point is 01:30:08 And for everyone else, we'll see you next. time. Bye. Bye. Bye, bye. Bye, everybody.

The Delta Flyers - Rocks and Shoals

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