The Delta Flyers - Sacrifice of Angels

Episode Date: July 28, 2026

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell, and Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, Sacrifice of Angels, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Armin Shimerman.Sacrifice of Angels: Sisko leads the Defiant and the rest of the Federation fleet into battle against the Dominion; on Deep Space Nine, Kira and the Resistance race to stop the minefield around the wormhole from being destroyed.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts,Tom Paynter, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, David Wei Liu, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jenny Cordina, Ryan Mahieu, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Sean T, Cindy Woodford, Tamara Evans, Shawn Robbins, & Francis Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, David Smith, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Robby Hill, Kevin Harlow, Jeff Allen, Londyn Henning & Risa EinsidlerAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, AJ Provance, Brian King, Maxine Soloway, E & John, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Jason Potvin, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Sara Junius, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jason Eberl, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, John Watker, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Cade Solsbery, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jay Furness, Jim Poesl, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Christina Chang, Kilian Trapp, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Andrew Golden, Damien O’Donnell, Michael Bourguignon, Corey Evans, Patricia Welsch, Shannon Gregg Lucky, Ken Guthrie, Michelle Fox, & Jeff Schmedinghoff Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out ElevenReader and use my code PODCAST for a great deal: https://elevenreader.io* Check out Quince and use my code quince.com/tdf for a great deal: https://www.quince.comAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. For the complete and exciting version of this podcast, please check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. you will not regret it. Great to see everybody. Yeah.

Yeah. Nice to be here. Yeah. It's, uh, it's, you look nice, Armin. You, uh, I don't see you in that shirt or like a dress shirt. What is that? That's a nice looking. It's a blue shirt.

I learned from my makeup artist on Space 9 that blue was a good color for me to wear. It is. It's a very flattering color. Very flattering. Yeah. All right. What's going on with you, Robbie? Anything in your life?

Right now, right now, uh, right now. We don't have gardeners on a regular because we kind of live in a desert environment. So usually the yard work I do it or Rebecca and I do it together. Right. I think for the very first time I've got some gardeners here today and tomorrow. Because it's just gotten out of control. And I tried to do yard work myself recently. And I was like, oh, wow, we've let it go.

There's a lot to do. I've been to your property, probably. I'm shocked that you and Rebecca, have done your own yard work up until now. I'm really shocked. Yeah, we usually do it. We do all of it. It's, it is a big lot. There's a lot here, but it's a, you know, mountain desert environment. So, but there's still, there's still shrubs and things all around though, right? Yeah. Do you have trees? Do you have trees? Yeah. Yeah, we've got to cut the limbs on the trees. Yeah.

That's what these guys are here doing today. They're really taking down some of the dead limbs and Yeah. And the dead trees and, yeah, the stragglers that are popping up everywhere. Do you have an acre? Do you have an acre? What do you? We have a little over an acre. Yeah, a little bit over. Well, that's almost identical with tear fare. Tehr has a little over an acre. We got to see her lovely backyard the other day on that Zoom call, which was very nice. Yes, we did. Yeah. We did. Well, we have some birthdays right around this time. Let's jump into it. We've got Dominic Burgess on July, our good friend Dominic, happy birthday, Dominic.

Dominic, the happiest of birthdays, happy birthday. Ah, Dominic, our resident Thespian, happy birthday to you, sir. Next up, we have Tim Newmark at the end of July. He's being a little coy and not sharing his act. Mysterious Tim Newmark, yes. Everyone just pick a date at the end of July, and let's just say that that is Tim's birthday. Happy birthday to Tim. Tim, I know your birthday's on July the 33rds, but happy birthday, happy birthday.

July 33rd is a wonderful day. What a great day. 733, yeah. Happy birthday, Tim. We hope you have a great, great day. We have one more birthday. That is Sean Robbins on July 30th. Happy birthday.

Sean, have a great day. Sean, happy, happy, happy, happy birthday. July 30th, what a wonderful day. It's the birthday of Sean Robbins. Happy birthday, Sean. Let's jump into some poetry. Let's start with Robbie's synopsis, which I don't look at beforehand. Go.

Okay, here we go. A little limerick for the episode, Sacrifice of Angels. There once was a battle barely won when the Dominion defenses came undone. Their reinforcements got erased, so Wei Yun retreated with haste. And the station was finally. won. Yes. I had to start with a There Once was. Because last time

I said, it was great. That's a classic Limerick starts. That's right. That's what you said, yeah. I forced There Once was a battle barely won. It was great. It worked perfectly. It didn't pull me out at all. It didn't. It flowed so well, Robbie. You should pat yourself in the back. And what did you rhyme

with waste? Haste. Erased. Erased. Erased. Erased. Erased and erased. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Very good. All right. Here is my haiku for sacrifice of angels. Cisco breaks the line. Minds gone. Prophets. Stop onslaught. DuCat loses mind. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. He really does. Prophets, say that. Profits what? Stop onslaught. Like the onslaught of the reinforcement forces coming through. See, that's the other thing about it.

No, I heard that. But because of who I am and because of what I played and because of the character on the show, I thought prophets P-R-O-F-I-T-S. And so what does that mean? And then, of course, it's prophets spelled together. Armand, what about your etymology? Ah, here we are, ladies, gentlemen. All right.

So I looked up the phrase, a sacrifice of angels, wondering if what is the background on that particular phrase, and this is what I found out. A sacrifice of angels was first used on Star Trek Deep Space Nine, which originally aired in November 1997. So that's where the phrase comes from. Okay, they invented it. They invented it. The sacrifice is Cisco's giving up a peaceful life on Bejure in exchange for saving the Alpha Quadrant. It has a parallel to Moses who must sacrifice living in the promised land for bringing his people into Israel, into the promised land. So there's that. That was part of the research I did. Now, going to the etymology of words.

Sacrifice is from the Latin, sacrificial. And the definition of sacrifice is to make an offering or sacrifice of, first used in English in 1250. The second definition, that which is offered in sacrifice, a victim immolated on the altar, anything offered to a god or a deity as an act of homage. The second word, angel, An early Teutonic adoption from Latin.

And then again, the word was influenced by old French. But previous to that, the word came from Hebrew, Malach, which originally meant messenger from Jehovah. Here's the definition. A ministering or divine messenger, one of an order of spiritual being superior to man in power and intelligence. Second definition. A guardian or attendant spirit. And in Shakespearean terms, a token or a piece of mind. money worth a noble, having the picture of the archangel Michael piercing the dragon inscrime

on it. It's oftentimes when Shakespeare has a line about angels, it's a pun about whether it means angel as we understand it or angel as a piece of money. Wow. A lot of interesting background there. Yes. Let us move to our Patreon submitted poetry winner, Robbie. Yes, this is a micro epic submitted by Snazzy, oh, and it is titled A Gambit with the Gods. The lives of billions hang in the balance, but we are losing despite our talents. So make one more plea to keep Major Free, but miracles like magic are not random chance, and we do not control who will dance. Beware this victory comes with a price and foolish to think you're the sacrifice.

Hmm. Very nice. Sassy? Thought provoking. Very snazzy. Very snazzy. Very snazio. But we are losing, despite all our talents. So make one more plea to keep Pedro Free.

Yeah, I like it. There's a nice little pacing to this one. Yeah. All right. We have a patron submitted poetry, honorable mention. Riming Narrative Verse submitted by Jason Oaken. Here we go. When sacrifice of angels tipped the scale,

a miracle performed has turned the tide, reclaiming what oppression had curtailed, Anne Hedonix's reign is cast aside, though penance for the triumph may await, the home once lost returns to welcome sight, and life, suspended by the hordes of hate, resumes its course beneath familiar light. Hmm. Very nice. Wow.

Jason, using An Hedonik. I know, which they used in the episode, right? Which is why I'm sure he used it as well. Yeah. This episode is written by Irish Stephen Bear and Hans Bimel. directed by Alan Croker, Krakar, however you want to pronounce that. Guestars, we have Andrew J. Robinson as Garrick, Jeffrey Combs as Wiyun, Marco Limo is Dukot, Max Grudenschuk as Rahm, Aaron Eisenberg as Nog, J.G. Heatzla, as Martok,

Melanie Smith, as Zial, Casey Biggs as Damar, Chase Masterson is Lita, Salomey Jens as the female changeling, Darren Cooper as a Cardassian officer. Anybody want to say anything about anybody in you? I think we've talked about all these actors other than Darren Cooper, who I don't know. So we're good on that. Yeah, Darren was in the security office, right? Or in the, he was the guard. He was the guard that falls into the souffle.

Yes. Yeah. Okay. And he ruined it. And he ruined it. Your line reading on that was awesome, by the way. And that you're weird. Trivia.

This episode contains. the largest battle ever seen in Star Trek? I made that note. Did you make that? This is the largest battle I've ever seen. That's so funny. Good job, Robbie. Topping the way of the warrior episode,

which itself had topped the Dias cast. So DS9 kept upping the numbers in terms of how many ships you see on screen and how big it is. I have to ask Dan Curry at one point or another. Was he happy about this or not? No. And he had to keep, you know, redoing battle scenes. Oh, gosh, yes. Sometimes they just steal them.

They steal them from other episodes. Right. Another bit of trivia. This is the first Star Trek episode where CGI is used exclusively. It's all CGI. Oh, wow. Interesting. Yeah.

Dan Curry and Bradley Thompson, who was once a pilot, both consulted on the battle sequence because the producers wanted to do something with specific military tactics as opposed to just two fleets shooting at one another. So there was very complex strategy and movements and what not happening that are military-based. I was very taken with the near-misses of the defiant near-missing other ships. Oh, yes. I was really taken with that. Oh, my gosh. So impressive.

And it's funny because for me, as a kid, this is what I wanted to see. You know, when I was watching Star Wars and loving it, I wanted Trek the original series to show me something like this. And it took all the way until DS9 to finally come up with something that kids, would be like, so. All right. Another bit of trivia. The story document for this episode was distributed around Paramount with a typo on the cover.

Instead of being entitled Sacrifice of Angels, it was entitled, Sacrifice of Angles, A-N-G-L-E-S. Iris Stephen Bear has jokingly said that he prefers the angles title. That's very funny. All right. Well, great.

This episode first aired on November. 3rd, the week before my birthday in 1997. Just before my birthday? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You guys are both Scorpios. Scorpios, yeah. So, yeah, if we start off on the bridge, we pick up in this, you know, second part with, you

know, the Federation making this push towards Deep Space Nines. This goes on the bridge of the Defiant. He orders the attack fighters to go in and hit the Cardassian ships, provoke the Cardassians into breaking formation, create a gap in the Dominion. defenses and Miles and Bashir are dealing with their nerves by reciting poetry out loud, which annoys Nog, who's also very nervous about this strategy, this battle, and the battle begins. And Cardassians aren't taking the bait right away, these attack fighters.

I've never heard the term attack fighters. Yeah, not either. Not in track. Definitely not. Not in track. Yeah. Yeah. And the whole purpose of this attacking the.

Cardassian, again, to try to bait them. But really, just to punch a hole so that they can get through to head on over to the station. Because they know that the only hope that they have is to shut down that graviton pulse, which is going to deactivate all the replicating features of those mines. And then the mines will be detonated after that. So that's the whole goal there. Now, here's a bit of trivia about that poem. The poem quoted by O'Brien and Bashir is The Charge of the Light Brigade, a narrative poem by Alfred

Lord Tennyson about the Crimean War written in 1854. And for those of you who know about this, the details of this, it was an entire cavalry unit charging against an artillery unit, I think. It was just all cannons. So kind of silly, right? Isn't that the... That's absolutely right. And there's an addendum to that, which I think is interesting.

I don't think the writer's meant to reference this at all. But that cavalry union that went in, in on a... a suicide mission. The commander of that made a huge mistake. He wasn't supposed to charge. Really? Really? The captain just decided, okay, we're going to charge. And he made a mistake. Either he read the order wrong or didn't get him in time. But the captain made a huge mistake. I don't think the writers of our show intended to realize that maybe Cisco has made a mistake. Right. They're suggesting that he made a similar, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, very much.

It's definitely, and by the way, so Bashir, you know, jumps in with Miles quoting this, this poem. But I've been feeling lately, like they have not written much for Bashir. No, they haven't. Like, he's been oddly missing from episodes and doing this sort of thing where he just, you know, quotes a poem and that's his scene. It's very strange. I don't know why they weren't right for him. And truth be told, I don't think he belongs on the brig. on the bridge, excuse me.

No, we talk about that. He should be in infirmary. There's no reason for him to be doing anything on the bridge. That's right. That's right. So I guess they, in order for him to be there, they have to give him

something. He needs a residual scene. It's bizarre, but you're exactly on the money, Robbie, because the minute he found out that he was, or the minute that it came out that he was genetically enhanced. Do you remember that episode? Yeah. And then after that,

every episode after Bashir is literally, in my opinion, an afterthought. He'll have some random line. I wonder if they realized, like the captain in the Light Brigade, that they made a mistake saying he was genetically enhanced. Because now if they put him in some of these scenes as a critical player, he should have the ability to solve problems in a superhero way in a way that they may not want. And they may have gone, uh-oh. Yeah.

We've made this story. that's kind of screwed us over in other stories. So let's just keep him out of it. Let's push him out of it. Because if he's that gifted, he should be calling all the strategy, all the military, you know what I'm saying? He should be saying, okay, do attack pattern, you know, alpha. Yeah, or hey, Cisco, I know you're going with this, but my, my calculations show that the percentage of success on that tactic is not as high as if you use this one. Well, that's assuming that his AI intelligence

covers everything. This is sometimes a problem I have when watching the show. For instance, in this scene, we have Dax as the pilot. And I go, no, Dax is the science officer. Yeah, correct. He's not the pilot. You know, we sort of jump responsibilities. And so I agree with you, Garrett, that he should be consulted on statistics,

on numbers, on odds, on how long it'll take, you know, numbers are his forte. But he doesn't necessarily have to be the person who knows how to militarily take advantage of the situation. That's true, because he wouldn't have had that training either. That's right. As a doctor. So, and but to speak to, I know your comment about Dax, but again, we mentioned this before, Robbie mentioned this before, but her past life as a pilot probably is what ensures her.

She was a test pilot. So she has that knowledge inside of her already. So that's a little bit more plausible. would say. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. I think they could have taken this Bashir, just to beat a dead horse here on the Bashir thing, I think they could have taken the Bashir genetically enhanced thing into a almost data sort of area. Okay. Okay. He could be really smart. Yeah. They could have put him into these stories where, hey, Bashir, you're genetically enhanced. Tell us about this. Do some numbers. What's a calculation? Whatever. Yeah. But he doesn't have the way that data had to learn about other things about,

being human, maybe a genetically enhanced person, we could have start to reveal, oh, Bashir sort of struggles in these areas, but he's got a superpower in these areas. It could have been an interesting story if they had felt like they were in trouble with the genetic enhanced thing. They could have found some other flaw in the way that data was not perfect. He was an android, but had to learn a lot of other things about being human. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe, yeah, it just feels like he's disappeared. But you know what it also feels like. It also feels like the character is sort of given up on life in a way. He's just, he doesn't even have the same, I don't even have to explain it.

There's that one episode where he had his suit just opened up and his arms wearing his sleeve. Like he just, he didn't care anymore. It just seemed like the minute he realized everyone knew he was genetically enhanced that he just sort of gave up. I just, yeah. And I'm sure that Sid probably was happy to have all this time off. Oh, my God. He was loving life.

And they just had a baby. And I'm sure he was thrilled. Yeah. But as a viewer watching it, I sort of miss that character. I like watching him do his work. I agree. And he's good. I agree.

And they haven't given him a whole lot of attention. Well, hopefully he gets to come back into the storyline. I'm sure he will. I'm sure he will. Okay. All right. We go to ops with our evil ducaud and the evil axis of powers. The evil access.

Yes. Those guys. They're watching the battle. By the way, it's those little communicator symbol. again for ships. It's like little Starfleet. Just use the Federation. Using around.

Use the Federation logo, the emblem. That makes them no sense. You don't use a comm badge. And while I was watching those, I wondered, were those there on the actual filming day or were they put in later? Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to say later in post.

Probably. Yeah. And William's like, yeah, of course I do. He has no idea. And then he calls him out. He's like, why don't you explain it? He's a female change link. You know, you know it all.

And what was his response? He was like, no, your verbiage or your description. Well, he says something to get out of it. I can't even remember. I can never do it as well as you would. Yes. But this is Descartes chance to kind of get back a little bit at what you. In front of the founder.

Oh, in front of the founder too, exactly. Without getting, yeah, he's doing it in a way that. He's not going to get in trouble, which is perfect. Yes. I love it. Well, he explains, Dukot eventually explains that Cisco's trying to open up a hole in the lines to reach deep space nine. And we learn in the scene that the minefield is going to be destroyed in eight hours. So we've got a clock on things here. I think they mentioned nine hours here. Later on, Cisco's team will say eight hours.

I could be wrong. I think they mentioned nine, but I could be wrong. And it's not that important. He says we should be able to detonate the mines in eight hours. Duccott says that. Yeah, mine is so. And then doesn't, Wei Yun says eight hours. I'll hold you to that.

It's Wayune trying to be Mr. Bossman again. He's a little ego. So the eight hours is really there. That graviton pulse is, is deactivating each replicator of each mind one by one. And that's why it's going to take that rest of that eight hours. And then, oh, the other thing that Wayeun says is, sorry, not Weeon, the other thing that Dukot says is he's going to allow Cisco to break through for a second and then close us. up on him and just destroy him. So that's the end goal.

And this is absolutely, which they didn't do well in the last episode, which they do extremely well in this episode, the clock ticking. They remind you over and over how much time is left. Yes. Yes. Yeah, they do. It's very good. You feel the tension of that ticking clock.

For sure. Well, way in and the founder leave, DeMarre warns Dukot that there could be more sabotage and that they shouldn't detain Kira, Lita, Jake, the suspected collaborators. They decided to detain them for questioning. And then DeMarc suggests also keeping Zial in her quarters.

Dukat doesn't like that. He just not like that. He's very angry. I did like Allen's croakers blocking. I liked the direction in this. Dukat moving around. Duma moving around. The camera pushing in on these dramatic moments.

I thought it was. really good. Alan does that all through the episode. I really noticed that and was really pleased by it. He keeps the actors moving all the time. There's always a sense of action. It's never just two people talking to each other. They're talking to each other, but they're on the move as well. And it often really emphasizes and elevates tonally whatever that energy, that feeling that you're supposed to have. If people are trying to solve a problem and they're brainstorming, you get that sort of blocking in energy. If they're, you know, coming together, tension building before a fight, you get that sort of blocking. He's very good at elevating the emotional experience of the story,

I think, in a great way. He's got a good instinct for that. The last two lines of this scene, Damar says, she doesn't appreciate what it means to be Cardassian or to be your daughter, DeKat says, but she is my daughter. That may mean nothing to you, but it means everything to me. Demar, you should have listened. Everything to Dukot. Everything. Yes. Yeah, he told you in this scene.

He told you right there, buddy. Don't kill my daughter. Yeah, pretty much. Oh, my gosh. We got to Quarks next. Super secret meeting. Again, look at this blocking, Armand. You're standing, kind of keeping guard.

Everyone else is sitting there, but they're not really looking at each other. They're whispering under their breath. It was great. Good. Yeah. It kept that sort of. It was a great composition. Yes, absolutely.

Great composition. Super secret meeting. They're discussing the reports of the battle, conclude that they must stop this minefield from being destroyed before reinforcements can arrive from the gamma quadrant. And Kira proposes a bomb. She says we could bomb the main computer, prevent the mines from being detonated.

She even volunteers to plant this device. But before they can act, DeMar arrives with a bunch of guards, takes Kira, Jake, and Lita into custody. So, yeah, there are. arrested. Yeah, I was particularly taken with the fact that Quark doesn't like the idea because it would put a kink into his business. Yes. He also says that that's heavily guarded. You're not going to get in there. You're not going to get it. And I think that probably is true. It was heavily

guarded before. That's why we needed Odo to dismantle the security system. Yeah, I also find it interesting that Quark is part of this collaborator thing, but they don't suspect him. He's very good at keeping himself looking clean. Yeah. He's neutral. And he's done a very good job of that. Yeah. And he's bonded with DeMar

over Knaar. So that helps as well. Yeah. You know that rhymes. I know. I thought you were going to do a line reading from that episode that I love so much. Okay.

Go ahead. Arm it. Yeah. He's done a very good job of staying neutral. And because he's neutral, he's gotten a lot of information. as a good spy would in passing it along to his friends.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's critical because they're getting detained and arrested. It's critical that you stayed out of that trouble. They need somebody to stay clean and you're the one. And I'm extremely appreciative of the fact that the writers and the director gave me a single after they're arrested where you're not quite sure whether my character is upset about this in the sense. fearful that he could be next or what is he going to do now to free his brother if the people that he needs have just been arrested. It's a lovely shot. I'm very proud of it and very grateful for

it. Yeah, very much so. You are the hero in this episode in a way. So it's kind of giving you the responsibility as a character to solve this problem. If you think he will. Yes. Right. Yeah, exactly. Or is he still neutral? Will he or won't he? Yeah. Yeah. Right. But there's no, you know, schlocky, comedic, phryngy writing here for you. So which is great. Thank God. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Lord. Thank the Lord on that one. All right. We go to ops next. Demar's there. He says, nine waves of fighters have continued to harass the Cardassian lines. They're very persistent. Dukot says, okay, it's time. Give him what he wants. Break off half a dozen squadrons, chase him. I found that Duccott very suspicious here. Like he's, we're, we're. Or cocky or something. Cocky. Cocky.

That's what I got. He's cocky, but I would also say that this is, you know, we rarely get a glimpse of tactics in any battles in this trek. And it's in terms of real, real-time tactics from both sides. Both sides. That's unusual. Usually we just see the one side. Exactly.

And it's so nice and refreshing to see this. So again, sorry. I enjoyed this episode. And it may be tuned in with the fact that they wanted the graphics. imitate that too. They wanted to see real, as you said earlier, they really wanted to see in the graphics actual tactical attacks. Right. Yeah, the battle scenes in this episode, too, the space scenes, are insane. The number of ships, the level of complexity to the way that they're all exploding and moving. Yeah, it's crazy. Can I say this? It rivals, and I'm going to even say it surpasses any

battle scene in Star Wars that I've ever seen. I'll be honest, and I'm a huge Star Wars fan. So, yeah, it was just out of this world. It really was. Wow. We go to back to the Defiant Bridge. Cardassian ships break formation. They see this.

It creates an opening. But Dax and Bashir warn, it could be a trap. Bashir, we were talking about Bashir before. Bashir is definitive about this. This is a trap. It's a trap, yes. Yes. Yeah.

That's his big part in the episode. he's got to say something, Robbie. But here's a big moment. He's committed to that. Oh, I wish they'd give him more to do. I want him to walk through the bridge and say, cookies, milk, anybody, anybody refreshments? Like just something else extra would be great for Bashir.

But Cisco takes the opportunity. He orders the fleet through the gap towards Deep Space 9 while the galaxy class ships engage the big enemy destroyers. So he's got kind of a move. he thinks is going to help him get through here. Kind of. Kind of. So in they go.

And the Galaxy class fighters are opening up the gap for the Defiant and the other ships there. I made a noted this is the biggest ship battle at this moment that I have ever seen in my life. It is huge. Yes. So many. So much going on. The Galaxy class ships, the Defiant. Yeah.

The attack fighters. And Rob, you've taken your sons when they were little to watch Star Wars movies. You've seen those battles that nothing even matches this battle. It's unbelievable. Unreal. Unreal. I think there were some of the Vizifax that were a little thin compared to what we might see now. They felt a little two-dimensional in terms of the CGO.

But for 1997, Robbie, this is amazing. Huge. Huge. This is amazing for 97. It may be why they switched over in this episode to CGI. Because it's a potential of CGI. Yeah. You can't handle it with practical models.

It's just not going to happen with thousands of ships like that. No way. Wow. They continue to advance, but then the enemy jamming up their communications prevents them from coordinating together. So Cisco's in a little bit of trouble. They've got a rotating impulse and they can't clear it. But Miles is trying. So it looked good for a second. Now their communications are messed up. Things are not going so well. We cut back to the captain's office. Ducaud is celebrating prematurely. It's victory. He's got cocktails. Offers away in a cocktail. I love the scene. I think this is a very important scene because it just shows how confident he is and how relaxed and everything. Because you need this setup for the final scene of where he loses everything.

So it's just, it's so important to show this part of it. And the fact that the writer's right in this toasting scene is just brilliant. I love this. And I really would love to have had this. script to see if that was written where he clinks the two glasses himself. Oh, or that was something that Alan came up with, that Mark came up with, because I really liked that a great deal. There's a lot of great stuff.

And I think that my memory of Alan Croker was he was very good at allowing actors to add some business and behavior more than most directors. He welcomed it. He liked that kind of making things natural and having actors bring that stuff. So, you know, the clinking could have easily been there. the actors there in Ellen. This scene does turn a little dark. Wayune does discuss that Earth is key in terms of if there is any type of rebellion in the future,

it's going to originate on planet Earth. So eradicating the population is probably first and foremost on their list to do. Dukata actually says, no, no, no, you can't do that. And William's like, what? He's like, because the true victory is getting the people that you've just conquered to realize that they're wrong, that we're the right people. Change their minds. Hades.

Hearts and minds. right yes yeah which feeds his ego it's a lovely character trait yes docott wants his ego fed that's right complains in the scene that the bejurans neither the pejoran government or cisco appreciate who what he's done his role in history yeah and he mentions how much he they haven't even built one statue to me i know me neither do god i i don't have a single statue anywhere there should be a Robbie McNeil statue in North Carolina. My kids have never built. They don't love me.

They've never built a statue of me. There's still time. There's still time. Yeah, the statue moment I thought was very funny. It was. It was. I didn't find it funny. I found it telling.

I didn't find it not funny. Right. It just found it telling about his ego. This is so close to becoming an enormously successful historical figure. Yes. that he's really enjoying it a great deal. Oh, yeah. He's on the cusp of history is what it is.

That's right, on the cusp of history. And he talks about Cisco as he looks at the baseball and then he just lets the baseball. I love that. Yes. Cisco's baseball just lets it fall. It just drops out of this end. It's just, oh my God. Whoever came up with that, I'm kudos to that person.

Yeah. If that was Mark Alimo doing that, good job Mark Alimo. Holy moly. It's just that one move alone spoke a thousand words. Yeah, it did. We go to Odo's quarters next. Odo is just staring out the window. So he's got a lot on his mind.

Founder comes in and tells Odo the battle's going well. And Odo does share with her that he still cares about these people that are fighting the dominion. They're his friends. Exactly. And the founder tells Odo that she thinks Kira is preventing him from fully embracing the great link that's a part of who he is. is and the founder does say that Kira's been arrested and she will be sentenced to death. She's a traitor. Odo panics in this scene and she urges Odo to accept that he's not a solid, that Kira's a traitor,

accept all of this and just join the link. Be who you truly are. Does she try to link with him in this scene? Yeah, she does. She does. And he refuses to it, right? Yeah, yeah. But I also think this mirror is what we just saw in Dukot.

She is so sure of Odo. Oh, right. He says you shouldn't think about the solids. Yeah. What's important? You should not let Kira get in the way of you being part of the link. Right. And she's so sure that Odo is infatuated with the link that she's won him over to her side.

Yeah. It's the same hubris. Yes. That Dukot had in the previous scene. Right. Suttler. Just subtler. Right.

So we have Cardassian hubris and changeling hubris. Exactly. So two of the Axis powers having hubris there. Evil axis. She literally says, Kira's death is to be your salvation. Yes. Like,

this is such a great thing. Yeah, she's very evil. Evil founder. Yeah, but she doesn't think she's evil. That's right. She thinks she's great.

She's the cat's meow. And she's helping. She's, she's Odo's savior is what she's thinking, I think. Here's just an addendum. Every actor knows if you're playing a villain, you never think.

that what you're doing is villainous. Exactly. That's how you overact and don't do justice to a villain character. You have to believe you are the good guy. You're doing the right. And that is the core to Mark Alamo's acting. He said it to me several times.

He always said to me, I thought I was the hero of the show. He actually said that to me, and I sort of looked aside. But he really believed it, and that's what makes his performance so powerful. I agree, 1,000%. That's why Dakot is one of my favorite. characters. He made that choice from day one. And we believe it. We believe it. Hook, Lion Sinker all the way. So good job, Mark Alamo.

Yeah. We go back to the bridge of the Defiant. Starfleet ships are just being ripped apart here. Again, the biggest battle in space I've ever seen. Defiant is getting hit very hard. Starfleet ships are just blowing up. Like, that CG was amazing. Yes. Yes. Robbie, Dax says, sir, we've just lost the C-Tac and the Majestic. Now that I see how C-T-T-A-K is spelled, it's S-I-T-A-K, which I guess is a Vulcan name. I thought the ship was named after the Seattle-Tac-A-R-P-A-R-Port, C-Tac-Tac airport. The C-Tac is gone. Oh, is Alaska Airlines down now?

I felt bad, yeah. I just realized it's not the right spelling. Okay. I also, it hit me in this moment when we're looking at all these Starfleet, giant starships blowing it. How many crew are? on each of these ships. Oh my gosh. The big ones? Over a thousand. That's a lot of dead Starfleet crew. We won an award, a dubious award for the TV show that had the most deaths in it. That's right. You told us that before. It's very, and it's true. The most deaths are on

DS9. Cumulative. If you calculate it all. Well, this is huge. Yeah, this is this is this is, this is not just the Starfleet deaths. Oh, it's Klingon. You're still on our side. It's also the other side as well. The Gened are losing entities as well. Yes, of course, that entire reinforcement force. They're all gone at the end of this one. I wonder where they go.

I'm not sure that they're killed, but they go somewhere. They go into the void. So now they're just sitting in that all-white background void with their weapons and their ships. I'm not so sure of that. But it's possible. It is possible. I think somehow they're whisked away somewhere else.

But when we get to that scene, I'll talk more. about it. Yeah. Okay. Well, things do look bad on the Defiant, but Cisco says, we're going through evasive maneuvers pattern Omega. We're going through. And off they go. The Defiant pushes right through the Dominion fleet, very heavy fire. It suffers a lot of damage. Loses its cloaking device here. Cisco says, we're going to fight our way out. And when things look the worst, suddenly wharf, and the Klingon force arrives. Thank goodness. And they create a gap in the Dominion lines. allows the defiant to break through. It works.

And Michael's performance is very calm. Yes, we're here. Yes, it was. It was a little too calm for me. It was a little too calm. A little too calm. Personally, I wish he'd come in with, he should have come in with.

I'm sorry, I'll use that as my missing scene. Okay. They do make it through. The Klingons help them through. But Nog says no other federation ships made it. They are the only ones. Yeah. And Cisco says, well, let's do the set of

course for Deep Space 9. We got three hours remaining. Clock is ticking. Yeah. Another reminder. Maximum warp. Off they go. Back in ops, Duccott is not worried at all about Cisco. Says the defiant is no match for the station. They've got weapons on this station. He's not worried at all. No match for the station. Yeah. He says, if Cisco wants to commit suicide, I say we'd let him. Is how DeKat says that. I love it. Yeah. Playing with a baseball. He picked it up off the floor. Oh, he did. Yeah, that's right. We cut to Zial's quarters when suddenly Quark grabs Zal from behind.

Was this in a hallway, I guess? No. No, I think it was a quarter. How did you get into her quarters without her hearing you? Oh, Gwark can get into anywhere. He can get anywhere. Okay, fine. I agree.

He says, don't scream. She nods. And I like the time that you took with this scene. It was because these things, like, couldn't happen fast to get her to realize you're not a threat. you need to take the time. I'm not a threat. Yeah, to show how calm you are. Yeah, I like the time you took. You're not threatening. Yeah. Pork asks her if she knows how to make Hasparat Suflet. Seems like an odd question. You know what someone should do? They should make, they should have a cafe that actually makes their version of all these Star Trek dishes. Hasbrette suflay on the up menu. Didn't even write a book

about that. He sure did. He did have a cookbook. But I'm seeing a real life bricks and mortar store That was like a Star Trek restaurant with all their versions. Did they do it at the Star Trek experience? They had no, because they would say like Tom Paris's chicken fingers. So it wouldn't be anything new. It'd just be your name or a character name on a already popular bar food, right? But I'm talking about someone coming up with their version of what Hasprat souffle would be. I think Star Trek fans would love this.

They'd be like, oh my gosh, this is awesome. Hey, Gary, you know what I did this morning? What? I used an app called 11. reader to listen to a script while I drove to work, a script that I'm prepping to direct. So you uploaded a BDF to the app and you were able to hear it while you're driving. That's a game changer, Robbie. Yeah, it's incredible. You can upload your own content like PDFs, docs, you know, fan fiction, whatever you want, or you can listen to bestselling audio books with super realistic

voices. It was incredible. I had Bert Reynolds read my script. How would you compare this to other reading apps that are out there? Oh, I've tried them. I've tried the other. apps and you can pay 15 bucks a month, you get one credit, one book, or you could use 11 reader where they've got over 200,000 premium titles. They've got all the best sellers. You know they've got a free plan that packs incredible value and an ultra subscription for only $11 a month. So you start with a free 10 hours of your own content or you can upgrade to Ultra for 11 bucks a month and unlock unlimited uploads plus 20 hours of premium audiobooks every month. That's amazing. 11 bucks. It sounds like you're getting more and you're paying less than the others.

Yes, and you get Bert Reynolds to read to you. Hey, who's going to argue with that? Check out 11 reader. Use promo code podcast. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T and get your first two months for only $1. We go to the security office. Cork and Z-L show up with the Hasparato-sou-Flei. The guard's voice I found to be a bit robotic.

I don't know. It was, this was not my favorite Cardassian guard. He's guarding the, you know, the cells, the security office. The security office there. Corkinsi all tried to deliver some food to Kira in detention, but the guard refuses to let them see her. And then he insists on inspecting the food, pokes it with, it looked like a chopstick. Was it a chopstick? I don't know when you got that.

It was like a, it was like a little piece of wood. You're right. It looked like a part of a chopstick. Yeah. And while he's leaned over and examining the food with the chopstick and the classic sort of, you bake a cake and you, and you, You know, you bake a saw or some way to escape into the cake. It's like from the cartoons. It's from Looney's terms, literally.

And he's checking out the souffle and then Zeal hyper sprays him and knocks him out. I like how Armin, when he's talking to him, it was almost like he was talking to a child. I mean, the confidence that Cork had with like, stop poking it. It's very delicate. I was like, wait a minute, you're risking getting shot by this, Cardassian if you're doing a little bit too much. So I liked the level of confidence that Quark had in the way he was speaking to the Cardassian Guard. This was a running conversation I had with the writers during the course of seven years. Quark, in this, it has thought about the details about he's not going to, I'm going to pretend to be nervous about this.

And he's going to see through that. And so eventually we get the hype of spray from Seattle. But that's very smart. That's very smart chess moves. And this was the, this was the debate. I had with the writers for seven years. I said, just tell me Quark's IQ. Because sometimes he's an idiot.

Sometimes he doesn't know what he's doing and he's totally lost. And sometimes in scenes like this, he seems very calculating. Yeah. And I would say to the writers, I said it many times. Just tell me his IQ. Yeah, I love it. And the final line with that Armand Motters, now you've ruined it. Just the way he said that was classic.

It's facing. It's faces in the thut, in the souffle. Oh, gosh. We cut inside the holding area. We see Kira, Lita in one cell, Rahm and Jake in the other cell. And there's a couple of guards there. And they're discussing the destruction of the minefield. Rom thinks he's going to be executed once the Dominion finishes disabling the mines. He actually recites the schedule, I think, you know, like eight o'clock this, nine o'clock this. I can't remember the way. execute the Ferengi. The Perengi. Made me laugh.

Quark and Zial come to the rescue. Quark is very nervous, though. He's got two guns holding him up. I thought that was interesting. It's my choice. That's my choice. Yeah. I liked it a lot.

It makes a lot of sense. He's not used to having weapons and guns. And Ferengi don't kill. Mm-hmm. He doesn't want to kill these Jim Adar. He doesn't want to do it. He's nervous about it. Yes, yes.

But pushed to the moment. where they might kill him. Right. Then he does. But, but it, and, and I think that's where the shock comes from that, that I play for the rest of the scene is. Yes. Yeah.

What have I done? What have I done? What have I done? Yeah. I think the way that Alan shot the reverse on, on, you know, the two guards, I, it was a little messy for me in terms of, it just, it just seemed dragged. They, they shouldn't have had the, their rifles up. They should have not gotten to their rifles and frozen, like, halfway grabbing them or

something. Yes. And one way to avoid that, I felt, was just come in tight on the eyes or the faces of the two guards. Then you don't see the guns at all. And then come back to a wider shot where they kind of raise the guns and then they get shot by Armin. So that's the only thing I had. My one issue with this scene was just how that was happening. The logic of it. Yes, the logic. It was too, it was a little muddy. That's all. Yeah. And to add to the logic, and this is nothing Alan could have done. They didn't need to stand there. They could have disappeared. They could have cloaked. Oh, yeah. That's what they do.

Oh, yes. They could have cloaked and disappeared and Quark would have been up Shitzk's Creek. Right. Or Quark knows this because he's already dealt with Jimmodar and the minute they cloak, he shoots because they can't move that fast. You see what I'm saying? And you take them out. But that would have been, if they can't use their rifles, if someone's got the

beat on them, then they should have cloaked. They should have just disappeared. I will say that the ending shot of this scene, after every. everyone says, okay, let's go do this and, you know, do go there, is on cork. Quark is still kind of looking at the bodies on the ground. Yeah, because again, Frankie's don't kill. So this is his first, from what I understand. It is.

It is absolutely the one and only time. Mm-hmm. And you are beside yourself in a state of, you're shell-shocked over the killing of these two guards. That's what I felt for me. More cork. I missed the whole reason for him to do it. There's not the whole reason, but the main reason for him to do it is to save his brother. That's the whole thing.

That's right. And yet there's no reunion. I understand Lita and Ram hugging. I get that. I get that. But that Rom doesn't come over and thank his brother or I don't go over and hug my brother. Just undercut the whole purpose of this. And Kira has a line to Quark that I'm going to, that's fine.

Works perfectly well in this scene. But it doesn't make sense later on. She says, Quark, if I wasn't such a hurry, I'd kiss you. Okay. and I understand they're in a hurry who says that she says that

she's checking the body or close to the body she says she says quark if I wasn't in such a hurry I'd kiss you and then she moves on and gets them all to leave you do this you do that go to sick places

and then she moves out and she's right they don't have time the clock is ticking they don't have time and so that's all right that's all perfect it's later on in another scene

where I go how come that isn't playing here in the later scene So I'll get to that scene. We'll keep that in mind. Yeah. Yeah. When she said, I'd kiss you quirk, but there isn't time when she said that, it jumped out

at me because we're not used to Kira having that attitude about quark. That's the first time. Ever. Right. And so if she's going to have that attitude, you're right. It should track. Like, that's a big deal. She would be consciously aware that she's changed her thoughts about quark.

Yeah. And he would be aware, too. And it's a huge deal, Robbie, to your point, because it is season six. Season six in the sixth episode, that she finally says something nice to quark. It's taking a long time. It's taking a long time for that ice to melt. Oh, my goodness.

Yeah. All right. Next, we go to Odo's quarters, where the founder is urging Odo to seek certainty to join the Great Link. Everything he's looking for is in the link. And then Wayune arrives in reports that Kieran the other prisoners have escaped. So the founder agrees that she will relocate to ops for safety. But Odo says, no, I want to stay here.

here, I'll be fine here. The founder asks, are you sure? Says, yeah, yeah, I'm good. Yeah, that you're sure is more of, you're sure you're not coming to the Great Link? And he's like, yes, I'm pretty sure. That's what that writing was. I love it. Yeah. And I thought at that moment, Salomey James's character is no fool. She should have had auto arrested. Or said to Wayune, I mean, we've seen it before. No, stand at, set guards outside the door. Yeah, he's, he's confined. To find the quarters. They can find a quarters. Yeah.

Yeah. I agree with you. I didn't understand why they left him. Both Odo and I'm just, all through my notes, I just call her Salomey Jans. I don't say the female's shapeshifter. Okay. They both, both Odo and the female shapeshifter both know what they're talking about. And so she should have set a guard outside of his door.

I agree. I don't think Wayun would, but she could and should have. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I actually thought all of them would have been on. to him. It seems so obvious that he's saying, oh, all this stuff's going down and I'm just going to stay here. I'm not going to help my friends. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't buy it. I would have liked to have seen more of him clocking that. Uh, of arrested. Now, she's escaped. Now, I mean,

what the founder said when she said, when she told Odo that Tira had been arrested, there's no hope for that. It's over. And I think he clocked that. Okay, there's nothing I can do to help. But now that she's escaped, ah, now there's a possibility. I don't think I necessarily wanted to dwell on that because of the element of surprise later on. But I would have loved something where something had happened. I don't know what. A look in Renee's eyes, I don't know what it is. But I would have liked something to be clocked there. Well, Odo stays back. No one is suspicious. It appears. Bulls. Bulls. Yeah, force.

What was their IQ, you know? I know. What was their IQ? We cut out to the corridor. It's a classic running hallway scene with phasers firing. Kira says, get out of here. They run into the cargo bay. They're shooting behind them.

She closed the door. She closes the door. But then bad guys are coming in. The other door, they're trapped. They're standing behind some crates when suddenly, Ram says, did you hear that? That's Bajoran, Faser. He can tell from the sound of it.

Bajoran phasers, which I've never heard that logic before, that you can hear the different sound. But I'm sure that people, you know, in the military can tell the difference between, you know, I don't know, a 38 and a 45 or something or automatic weapons. Yeah, you can tell. I was always fascinated during the war, World War II, that there were people who could tell the difference in engines, what plane was flying over by the, by the, by the, by the, the sound of the engine. And I thought, and that was real. That was historical. So I didn't, I didn't mind this at all. What I did mind was, forgive me, Max, for saying this, that Max had to go like that. I went, you don't need to do that. You don't need to do that. You don't need

to do this. You already have the ear. So why are you using the hand? Yeah. Well, they hear the Bajoran phaser fire and then it suddenly stops all the shooting. They step around the corner. a nice hero reveal of Odo, the tilt up to seeing Odo. Odo was the one that saved them. Yeah, but I just want to go back to the phaser fire. I think all phaser fire sounds the same. It's all the same. I don't think there is a difference.

I wonder if they actually changed. I hope they did. I hope they changed the sound of it in order to make it match, yeah. The lines. Yes. But I think typically when you've got alien bad guys shooting their phasers against our Starfleet phasers, There's not much of a change in sound.

Oh, there isn't. So, yeah, a bit of a hole in the plot. But maybe they did adjust the frequency of that in post. So it sounds a little bit different. I hope so. We cut back out in the corner. Odo tells Kieran Rom, they've got less than 40 minutes still on the clock. Fock is ticking.

Yep. They've got less than 40 minutes to disable the main computer. One other moment missed. Certainly, Kira is happy to see that she saved. Okay, you saved me, but I still have a problem. problem with you. Okay. She's had a problem with them for several episodes. Yes. Yes. I don't want their problem to disappear right now. Okay. So you want her to vacillate a little bit back and forth between. I want her to go. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I've

glad you seen the light. Let's go. Whatever. Right. I don't want to. Oh, look at my hero. Yeah. I don't want that now. Right. Well, Otto tells Karen Romney, they got less than 40 minutes. He's going to help distract the Dominion security forces with false alarms, so he'll try to create some distractions. I did like that Rom and Kira both get in the two but first. Whose idea was that? I don't know, but I kind of liked it. I did too. It felt like, oh, we've been trained to, you know, move around the ship in a safe way and

professional way. It just seemed, yeah, I liked it. It added an extra layer to it. Like, oh, they started training this way. They went in, they backed up, then flipped over and started crawling. It was a nice touch. It looked like a pro move. Maybe Alan said, hey, guys, let's do it this way.

Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Kira does ask about the Great Link. Odo admits that it was Paradise. The link is Paradise, but maybe I'm not ready for Paradise, he says. So this feels like a little moment that could have released some of that tension you were talking about. You wish they kept Armin. If they kept the tension and this moment, even though it's not a full processing of everything,

at least this could have been the crack. It could have. I really disliked this scene a great deal. A great deal. Here's why. Alan and the writers have kept the tension going all of this time. We're towards the end of the episode now. Everything is important.

We know, what is it, 40 minutes? We only have 40 minutes left. I didn't want them to resolve their differences now. I want them to get to the core and shut this sucker down now. I don't, there's no time for this, nor do I want it wrapped up. so neatly in a ribbon and they can exchange glances that are meaningful. I don't want that now. I want them to move on what's important.

Shut down the computer. Right, yeah. I'm sure the writers wrote this. I'm sure they're trying to rectify the relationship between Odo and Ikira. I just think this is the wrong time for this. Right. Yeah, I hear you. That's a fair assessment.

Yeah, I think that's a very smart. It makes more sense what you're pitching than trying to quickly. Right. And this is the scene that I referred to before. If she didn't have time to kiss Quark, then she doesn't have time to talk to Odo now. That's true. That's true. We go back to the Defiant Bridge.

Their maximum warp, 11 minutes till they arrive at DS9. It's going to be close, so Brian says. Inside the conduit junction, we see Rom. I love how Kira is like, how's it going, Rom, like a kid in a car. And I feel on a trip with the family. Dad. Are we there yet? Yeah. And Rahm is like, I wish you would stop asking me that. Kira apologizes. And Rom really kind of exasperated. It says, I'm not going to make it. He knows the time. He doesn't have time to do what he needs to do. So Kira says, okay.

The whole computer. Correct. So then she says, well, just cut off the power. If she had to spend time with Oro, maybe he would have had that time. Okay, fine. Yes. Well said. So then Kira says, just cut the power to the station's weapons array. they can stop, you know, anything to being fired from the station, specifically a photon torpedo, which will detonate all the mines. So that's the key. And then Rob's like, okay, all right, I can, I can work on that. But it's, uh, it's a, it's a quick scene. We go back to ops. Demar is, is starting to get worried. The Klingon fighters are winning. Yeah.

They're starting to beat up their, their lines. Dukot is still cocky, though. He says, don't worry any minute. Thousands of reinforcements are going to come flying out of that wormhole. We cut to the Defiant Bridge. Dax is worried. She's like, maybe we should come up with the Plan B. We go to the conduit. ROM's not done yet.

So we're intercutting quickly with all, everybody. Are we going to make it in time? The clock is ticking. We go to ops and DeMar says the last of the mines are neutralized. We can detonate the minefield. And Duccott says fire. Just then we cut to. rum he says done but the mines explode yeah he was literally one exactly late on that i'm not going to

remind you where he could have gotten that one second we don't have time kira back on the bridge on uh on the view screen of of the defiant we see ds9 with the background of flashing lights lovely lovely yeah the crew is in shock everybody realizes it's too late and Cisco without taking much of a pause says all right let's go into that wormhole as i said the captain from the the 600 yeah yes the light brigade right here like the charge of the light brigade oh my goodness well garrick yeah garrick literally says how does that poem end and o'brien says you don't want to know we go to ops they're laughing hysterically they feel like they've won, they're celebrating, they're so happy. DeMarce says the Defiant is going into the wormhole.

That's odd. Wayun says, flippantly, says, destroy it. But the weapons are offline. Ram, he did something, he got something. They have no weapons. Dukot says, you know, Major Kira. He thinks it's Kira. But I want to say, it's not Kira.

It's wrong. Right. Exactly. Exactly. We go back to the Defiant Bridge. They're inside the wormhole. Cisco says stop. They see a fleet of reinforcements ahead of them heading their way.

He says, ready, the quantum torpedoes. This is bad. Using quantum torpedoes in the wormhole, that's... Yeah, that's not good. That can't be good for the profits, for themselves. It's a suicide mission. Right. But that jumps very quickly, immediately into the other reality, the other realm.

The prophets pull him in limbo land. And we are very used to. Limbo Land. And of course, the prophets use all the major players in this episode as messengers or ways that they are speaking. Yes. All the actors play. It's that nonlinear storytelling, jumping from one location to another, flashing in and out of time. The prophet sort of speaking as if they're Odo or as if they're Jake or as if they're Gira, like everybody. But not as if they're Bashir. Hey, that's right. You're right. He is not. in there. And there is somebody there that went, really, that's not part of Cisco's reality. Why is he

there? Wayun? No, no, Damar. Damar. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why is Tamar there when Bishir should be there? Right. That is so true. Wow, that's very true. They pull him into a vision. They tell him that, you know, they do not want to play the game of his life till the end. They don't want to end this game. You know, they keep referring to his life. as a game, the game of life or something. And if you remember from the very first episode, he introduced baseball to the prophets. That's right.

So this is the game. Yeah. He tells them, he says, you have no right to interfere with my life. And then he starts to, Cisco's trying to argue with them about Bejor. He says they said of themselves that they are of Bejor. And he says, if you're gods,

of Bejor, then be gods, because Bejor needs a miracle. We need you to participate, you know, to take some action. Yeah. What is the Greek device, Deiasex Machinib, literally is what's happening here. Literally. Act of the gods. That's right. The gods step in and prevent, you know, a horrible ending or something.

Yeah. Deuce, that's gods in Greek. Deuce. Deuce. Machina. I've gotten so used to these limbo scenes now. And this is really what sets this show apart from every other Star Trek series. It has this undercurrent of religion, of belief, of the prophets, of the unknown. And none of this exists in TNG or Voyager or any of the other, or the original series. So to me, it's just this, it's what makes this series, sets this series

apart from all the other ones in a good way. So, yeah. Well, Sisco does continue to, you know, debate with them and argue with the gods. He says, stopping the dominion is more important than his own survival. And he says, you know, challenges them to intervene. And they seem convinced, actually, the prophets agree to act, but they declare a price must be paid. We'll act.

But nothing is for free here. And before they return him to reality, they warned that although the Cisco is of Bayjor, his future will follow a different path and he will find no rest there. So very ominous sort of projection or, you know. Yeah, because we don't know what the penance is. We don't know that yet, right? No. They just say you have another path. You have another path.

But we have to go back, I think it's rocks and shoals, where he tells a very generous character of the Admiral that he's going to retire on Bejure, that it's at the end of that lovely description of Bejure, how beautiful it is. And he says, I'm going to retire there. It'll be my home. I'll go away to do missions, but this will be my home. Yeah.

And they're saying, nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Yeah, so that actually, that conversation happened in favor of the bold when he's talking about Bejor and how much he loves it. He's going to retire there. So that is the plan that is no longer going to happen now?

We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. But that's what. Definitely. I know. That's what I know. Got it.

Okay. Okay. As I watched it the second time, I realized, perhaps, the writers didn't mean to do this, but I thought there's something in the dialogue. As I listened to the dialogue, I went, it seemed to me that there were two, the prophets were taking two sides of this question about what to do with Cisco. There's a line where two of the prophets, one prophet, the prophet represented by Wayune, says, he says, we are of Bejure, and that's the way he read it, we are of Bejure. I think the Weeun character probably should have hit the R.

We are of Bayshore. We are a Bayshore. You're right, Sisko. You write the Cisco. We are of Bayshore. And then the next prophet to speak is Odo. And he says he is intrusive. And then the Jake prophet says a penance must be exacted.

In other words, I think they're having a debate about what to do with him. And eventually. the J character puts his thumb on the scale and says, okay, then we need to have a penance. If we're going to do something, he has to pay a sacrifice, sacrifice of angels. And I thought, I think that's what's in the script. I as an actor hopefully would have seen that when, oh, they're having a debate. It's not that all of them, they're not part of the link. They're having a debate.

And they decide, okay, we're going to help him. but a price has to be paid. Got it. We are of Bejor. He's right. We are a Bejure. Not that we are of Bejure. Got it.

It's so funny. Okay. And I'm just projecting. I don't know where the series is going. Right. But DuCott's daughter pays a price in this episode. And then it occurred to me, oh, is the price that Cisco pays Jake dying like DuCott's daughter eventually? I'm like, no.

Don't say that. But we know that Dax. Is that the price? That's the price. Maybe Dax's... I never put this together, but maybe what they're saying right now is you're going to have to pay a price. And the price he pays is his dearest friend. Yes.

The old man. I don't know. Interesting. But, Armand, thank you for bringing out that point. Because when I was watching the limbo scene, I thought they were all on the same page. All from the same, on the same page. The profits already know what they're going to do. And they're not debating.

But now that you put it that way, yeah, it sounds like they're having a debate real time over what to do with the Cisco now. Yeah. Yeah, the Cisco has been intrusive. Yes. He's intrusive. He's not, you know, that's wrong. Yes. It's not, the Cisco is intrusive. Okay, but that has no weight to it. Right. Right. Why say it if it has no weight? It doesn't. And so it seems to me there's a debate and the Jake prophet says, fine, but he'll have to play a price. We'll get involved, but he'll have to pay a price. Right. Thank you for bringing that. All right. All right. We go back to the Defiant Bridge, reality. Thus, Cisco pops on, flashes on. The defiant prepares to engage the massive Dominion reinforcement fleet that's heading through the wormhole. Cisco orders his crew to stand ready

to make every shot count. These quantum torpedoes are basically going to be a suicide mission here. But just before the battle can begin, the entire Dominion fleet suddenly kind of shimmers and disappears. Here's, can I just stop for a second? This is what, I didn't realize that it took time to travel through the wormhole. I thought the minute you went in through one side, you just popped out the other side pretty much immediately. But obviously in this episode, there's a time factor of that because the dominionships are still traveling towards them and they're at full stop. So it's a long corridor, I guess. I wonder if you experience this is going to be a time question, which in sci-fi is dangerous.

but like if you're on either end of the wormhole, it may seem like it's instantaneous. But if you're traveling into the wormhole while you're in there, is time sort of a limbo generally? Do you know what I mean? Yes, yes. From my watching of this show, I think time is in limbo while you're in there.

While you're in there. Yeah. It's why they can jump cut when you have the profits sequences, where all of a sudden Cisco's in a different place and doesn't know how he got there. Because time just jumps around. And in fact, science is in a black hole, time doesn't exist.

In past episodes where the prophets have happened, something, there usually is more time to get through it than we normally accept. Yeah. Okay. Well, Cisco sees a fleet of reinforcements, an armada of commata of, of reinforcements kind of jumble around and then disappear. And Cisco realized that they didn't cloak.

Yeah, O'Brien thinks they cloaked. O'Brien's like, they cloaked. Yeah. No, they're not detectable. And Cisco concludes they are gone for good. The gods did intervene. It is a miracle. To Garrett's point, religious, it is a miracle.

Yeah. We cut up to ops, Dukot, Wayun, DeMar are stunned. When the defiant comes out, It's all by itself. No reinforcements. Defiant opens fire. 200 enemy ships have broken through. It's the Klingons.

Yay, Klingons. So Deep Space 9 is under attack and the weapons are offline. And the Federation ships are breaking through. The founder says, let's get the heck out of here. Let's go back to Kardashian territory. Wayun is like, no problem. Wayune's line is, time to start packing is what he says. It's like, let's go.

He is a chicken. And he does not like confrontation. No, he's always said, you can't count your chickens before their hatch. He said that to, to, to, to cut earlier in the episode. That's right. That's right. So, Wayun and the founder evacuating, Dukot struggles with this loss of this victory he was so sure of. Yeah.

And the founder, the founder does give the order. Contact all the forces in the off quadrant tell them to fall back to Cardassian territory. So basically, that entire attack force is all going to head back to Cardassia right now. Wow. This is a big loss for them. Huge loss. Huge. DeMarre tries to get Dukot to come with him, to stay with them.

Airlock 5. Go to Airlock 5. And Dukat says, no, I've got to find Zial before I leave the station. So he heads off to find her. Back on the defiance, Cisco says, let them run, let them escape. We're in no shape to fight them right now. So this is when Bashir gets a message that the Dominion are retreating. And Cisco tells all of his forces, the Federation forces,

and the Klingons let's all rendezvous at Deep Space Nine. So, but he has a line in this scene. He does have a line, but he's the communications officer now. I'm going to say right now, the reason why, even though we all agree, there's no reason for him to be on the bridge. He should be in the infirmary.

So I'm going to validate it by saying, with him on the bridge, he is the closest to Cisco and all the other important players if they get injured. It's immediate. He's going to be able to treat them. That's, that's it. That's all I can come up with.

So there's a hierarchy. We treat the officers before we treat their work. Unfortunately so. Yes. Yes. The lower decks will die first. According to Garrets. Yes.

Garrett's logic. I'm just saying there's no. The lower decker is getting nothing. We agree though. He's not supposed to be there. What is he doing? What is he offering? He's the doctor.

It's weird. They've lost their way with Bashir for a while. They have. I do like just to reverse, just a little half second. When Dakot says, I'm going to go find her. And DeMarre yells at him as he's running, as he's going down. the turbo lift. He says, she won't go with you. So he already knows this is not going to turn out good for Descartes. Well, he probably blames Ducaut for the loss, for the loss of the victory. There comes a point where a

subordinate officer says to himself, I know he's my boss, but I can't follow those orders any. We go to the promenade, Descartes stumbling along. He's searching for Ziaul. We do hear these evacuation orders from the computer, which I thought was kind of cool. And in the airlock we see Wayune making his way very formally, make way, make way, step aside, make way for the founder. It was very Dickensian or Shakespearean even, this sort of, you know. Yes. The town crier is here now. The town crier, exactly.

Yes. All's not well on the station, please. Evacuate. Wayun asked the founder about Odo. The founder says, he will join. us one day. It's only a matter of time. So Founder's still very confident. We do see Dukot finds the all though during the evacuation. He begs her to leave with him. Go back to Cardassia. She says, no, her loyalties on Deep Space Nine. And she admits that she helped Kira and the others escape.

But she also admits that she loves her father. She says, I love you. I have to say this scene felt oddly romantic for a father-daughter scene. I don't know. Well, it was loving. You got romantic out of it, though. I got a little bit. Creepers. I generally get creepers from Zeal as a character.

You got it. You got it on this one. It was a key. I didn't have a problem with this. Yeah. Okay. I'm with Armin. I didn't pull me out.

It was just maybe the close faces, the leaning, the, you know what? We close. But we always close talk on Star Trek. So let's just let's throw that out the way. window for just that's just start track close talk that's all i got a little ick yeah you did but i was afraid for her when she said when she admitted to what she did and he said the line he says do you know what you're saying and his hand was right there i said oh no please don't do anything bad because i thought that he was going to be the one who right that's good writing daughter you you felt it i

assumed it and again good job of the writers they brought me down that path well uh he doesn't do anything. Instead, DeMar shoots her from behind. He shoots her for treason. Demar says to DeKat, let's go, but DeKat will not leave. His heart is broken. She, he dies in his arm, but Duqat forgives her. He says he loves her. Yeah. And he is just devastated by her death. Now here again, a line reading I thought was lost. Again, on the second view, I'm watching it. And I go, he says, I forgive you. That's what he says. Zia. She's dying. What is it the cut wants, he wants many things

from Ziao, but I think he also wants her forgiveness. Yes, do you forgive me? Oh, yes. And so instead of saying, I forgive you, I would have, if I were directing, I would have asked the actor to give him a line reading, which is an ethmo, we know. I would have said, can you

say it this way? I forgive you. Yeah, a leading version. Yeah, a leading version. I forgive you, and she doesn't respond. Yeah. Which to me, plays off at the very last line of this episode. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, I like that idea. That's a great idea. I would take that line reading from you. Because what he wants is her forgiveness. Yeah. He wants her love. He wants to comfort her.

Yes, all those things are there, absolutely. But he also wants her forgiveness. Yes, he does. He wants a statue from her. He wants her to build a statue. Right. In love and memory by my daughter. is young.

And I'm not saying that if my kids built me a statue, that I would be mad. I'm not saying I would be mad if they want to build me a statue. I'm fine with that. We go to the promenade. The crowd is cheering all of our returning heroes. We do see out in space first, though. There is a Federation kind of returning. We see all these ships arriving.

I did notice on the promenade tons of background. Yeah, a huge amount of background. The biggest maybe I've ever seen. The largest concentration of background actors? In that one wide shot, it was, it looked as busy as I've ever seen the promenade. They had that one scene where do you remember it was some Bajorn, maybe it was festival or something? Yeah, where they had someone made that speech and it was all, the entire promenade was filled with. It felt like that.

But even bigger than that, then. You were saying maybe bigger or equal to that. Yeah, it was big. Yes. they're all talking about the future. Martok is there. He says he's honoring his wager with Cisco. Daxon War for talking wedding plans. Bashir and O'Brien talk about going back to the holodeck. And Rom learns that Nog has been promoted above him. He's going to be his boss now. And then the mood shifts a bit when Cisco asks about Kira. And he learns that she's in the infirmary

with Zial, who's been wounded and... And Garrick, who has been looking for somebody this entire time, which would be Zial, here's that. And the next shot is of Garrick in the infirmary. Kira is already standing over. Hold on. Yes. We've forgotten what I think is a major point reunion as well. Please.

That's Odo and Cisco. Oh. Good to see you, Captain. Yes. And they shake hands. Yes. Again, I'm thinking, okay, he doesn't know. Cisco doesn't know.

Right. He doesn't. But they do shake hands. Yep. And I'm thinking. Yes, and he uses the affectionate term of good to see you constable. Constable is used there, so he doesn't know. He doesn't know.

No. Okay, so back to the infirmary. Garrick is walking in there. Kira is already standing over Zial's body, and she informs Garrick, she loved you. And Garrick says, I could never figure out why. I guess I never will. And now, finally, this is something that I brought up in prior episodes, that we have Zial, and there's no conversation about Garrick at all, because we did leave one episode

where Garrick leaves the station, departs, and kisses Ziaul on the lips, as if they're dating. So I kept thinking, why haven't they shown Garrick and Zial again? And now we do see them at the very end here. Very sad moment. We cut to a holding area next where Dukhada's on the floor having an emotional breakdown from Zial's death. He's speaking as if she's right there in front of him talking to her. We'll go back to Cardassia.

We'll be safe there. You'll live with me. everything will be fine. So he's literally having a breakdown. He's in the brig, though, Robbie, right? I don't know why it listed as a holding area. It's just, it's the brig. He's in the, it's not the brig. It's not the brig. It's the holding area. It's a, it's a corner of Odo's office. Of his office. Oh, excuse me. Pardon me. Yeah, it looked, it looked a little kind of in between, not, not a full jail. No, that's why Odo picks him up and moves him. Got it. Okay. To have Bashir treat him. Yeah, Cisco says, you know, Bashir should treat him, and Odoa gently takes him out. And as he leaves, Dukot returns Cisco's baseball.

And says, I forgive you, too, is what he says. Wow. That's why I think, that's why I want the reading. I forgive you. Do you forgive me? Oh, yeah. Is he asking for Cisco's forgiveness as well? Okay.

So he could have said that too the same way to Cisco. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. What an episode. What an episode. Yes, yes, yes. Themes and morals. The lesson. Yeah. Armand, what do you have for your theme slash moral? I have a quote from the episode. For me, this is the theme. It's spoken by the female shapeshifter. It appears this war is going to last longer than expected. That is the theme for me. Okay. All right. War is hell. Yeah. Yeah. Robbie. My lesson from this is nothing is free.

There's always a price to pay for victory. Yeah. Duccott paid a price. Cisco's going to pay a price. Everybody paid a price in some way in this episode. Yeah. So, yeah. My lesson is that war should be the very last resort.

War is hell. The toll it takes is too high. When people have problems, they should be discussed and negotiated. And that's it. It shouldn't go beyond that. What is insanity? It really is. Alan Watts, who's a philosopher and a thinker that I love, Alan Watts.

He said once that war is collective insanity. It's everyone agreeing on insane. There's nothing about it that makes any human logical sense. It is insanity. No. We just agree that, oh, we're okay with that. But it's insanity because if you think about it, if you break it down into atoms and energy, we're all composed of the same energy.

So that means we are the same. So if you kill someone else, you're killing yourself is what you're doing. And it's just insanity in that regard if you go to a subatomic level. Yeah. And I can only repeat one of the rules of acquisition here, which is the 34th rule. War is good for business. Yes, sure. Oh, yeah.

A lot of money's made during war times. That is for short. Our Patreon poll for winner theme moral of this episode is submitted by Tim Newmark, and that is the quote, you want to be gods, then be gods. That is his moral of the episode. Okay. Honorable mention for theme slash moral slash lesson is submitted by Lori Ulster would be, nothing in war is simple, whether it's victory or defeat. Okay. Great. Well, that is it. We have come to the end of our discussion and recap of this episode. Yeah, sacrifice of angels. Thank you. arc of episodes as well. Yes, the six episode arc is now ended. So, yeah, we're at the end of that

wonderful arc. Thank you to Armin for joining us again. Yeah, that pleasure. It was wonderful. We had a good time today. Yeah, that was a good time. Yeah, a nice episode. Yeah, thank you for everyone for tuning in. Please join us next time, and we will be recapping and discussing the episode. You are cordially invited, and that will be with Terry. For all of our Patreon, patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material for everyone else. We'll see you next time. Bye now. Bye-bye. Bye everybody.