The Delta Flyers - Sanctuary

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode, Sanctuary, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Armin Shimerman, & special guest Kitty Swink!Sanctuary: Refugees from the Gamma Quadrant searching for their mythical homeland stop at DS9, then discover that Bajor may be their destination.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Nicole Anne Toma, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Rob Traverse, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Sam Mikelic, Thomas Irvin, & Jonathan CappsOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Steven Lugo, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Timothy McMichens, & Kevin HarlowAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carol Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, John Richardson, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Mars DeVore, Robert Allen Stiffler, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Constance, Loretta Reyes, Kyle Freund, Cassandra Girard, Francesca Garibaldi, Andrea Wilson, Carol Ramsey, Willow Whitcomb, Jadzia Mehari, Mo, Leslie Ford, Travis Campos, & Douglas Lawrence-PlantThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host today are Garrett Wong, our Forever Ensign. Myself, Robert Duncan McNeil, your favorite helmsman. And we have Armand Shimmerman, our beloved entrepreneur, with his real life, wife, Kitty Swink, a very special guest with us today. Thank you for joining us.

Remember, everybody, if you want more content, more amazing stuff, sign up at patreon.com, become a patron. You can find us at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers. Lots of great bonus content, lots more than just this podcast. Check it out. Hello, everybody. Hello, hello. Aren't we glad to have Kitty with us?

We are so glad. I'm so glad to be here. We love you, Kitty. And does everybody know, I'm assuming everybody does, but does everyone know that the episode we're going to do is sanctuary, which is Kitty's first appearance on Star Trek. Yes, it is. Yes. We've been waiting for this episode.

I never knew Kitty was in Star Trek until everyone's like, Kitty's joining us for the call. I'm like, what? Well, it may be part of the most joyful part of my career, but it's hardly part of the most distinguished part of my career. Well, it's funny when we contacted you guys and Armin said something like, Kitty wants to remind you that she's, I forget what you said, but it was something funny. Like, this is not a big, big part. But you were fabulous in it. You were so well cast.

I was waiting, waiting, waiting. It comes in a little later in the episode. Two thirds in. Yeah, you were fabulous. Thank you. Thank you. I watched it yesterday again and went, oh, God. But Armin said, no, no, no, you're wrong, you're wrong.

You're playing somebody who's so different from yourself and you. Yes. Yeah. And I venture to say that I think, and I probably need to be corrected, but I think it is the only one who's broken the spouse barrier. No, at that time I was. At that time I was. But I think it's changed since then.

And the spouse barrier is there was no other spouse of one of the series raiders who appeared. on any of this and having walter's son on was also a big deal i mean they kept telling it so this is a big deal this is a big deal that's right yeah that was a big deal how did it feel when's the last time kitty that you saw this episode before this podcast oh when she was a pup probably when it came on the first time really yeah yeah i mean i have pictures of it because i signed them but yeah yeah or you know if i'm walking past a television set and there it is i'll go oh yeah there i am and i keep this you know that's what you do. But it was really fun to watch, especially because Deborah May is in it, and I just love her so much. She's just such a, she's not only talented, and Bill Shalard, who was

an old friend. He used to, we were on the pension and health plan together of Screen Actors Guild, and even with his cane, he would be like walking behind people after lunch during a meeting and take a pratfall. So we'll talk about him in a second, but he's been on everything. He was And Patty Duke's father. Yes, exactly. And he was the president of the Screen Actors Guild for several years. He was the president. Yeah, this was a very distinguished cast, I got to say.

Yeah, there you go. He passed away six weeks, very soon after his on-screen daughter, Patty Duke passed away. Yeah, he did. Oh, that's sad. He did. I want to ask you, though, Kitty, so you haven't seen it a long time, what did you think? How was it watching this whole episode for the first time in a long time? long time.

It was really interesting. Two things bothered me and I see, I feel this a lot. Yeah. Instruct. The guys who are the husbands, the boyfriend, the whatever, the screen. Yeah. And Andrew, all three of them were, you know, doing I'm an alien stuff. And I think that was that was what less wanted them to do.

And it just getting in my way. Yeah. Yeah. And that I wanted the whole episode to move faster, that there weren't, there was too many things going on for me. And I think Armand felt, he'll say the exact same thing, I think. But it was fun to watch. And I loved watching Deb because she's not just a wonderful actress, but she's an even better human being. So that was really fun. And she was having a really hard time. Hold on to that. I don't keep that a little later. Okay. Well, I want to ask you, I want to, because this is kitty time. before we get into the episode, I want to ask you, Kitty, so I read something about your brother is a rocket scientist? He's a retired rocket scientist. He's an aerospace engineer, yeah. Wow. And how did that feel when you got on a Star Trek show with a brother? Like, what's the connection with your brother and Star Trek and space and all that? When we were kids, we would watch

Star Trek together. He's almost seven years older than me. And all three of us were like this, but But Don, who was always going to be a scientist, that's how his brain works, I think that's when he decided, I'm not just going to be a scientist, I'm going to do something in space. And so when Armin ended up being a series regular and we brought Don down to walk deep space nine, he was like, oh, he was so happy. And then, of course, he went back and told everybody at Rocket Research or Boeing or wherever he was working at the time or his friends at NASA

he'd go, you know, I just played a bit it was great. It was perfect. And she's not the only one with a brother who works in space. My brother works in space. Oh, have we talked about that? No. Tell us. Tell us about it. My brother Mark.

Take some of Kitty's time. Yeah, take some of Kitty's time. No, we share it's a 50-50 thing. It's a 50-0. Okay. 60-40, actually. It's not 50-50. My brother Mark worked for huge tool and they put satellites up into space and he was a very instrumental in the construction of those satellites wow and how do you feel about him i'm not quite sure whether he's happy

about it or not happy about it but um he does um he does at times call himself rome he does he does do that oh oh i would love to meet them yeah some of the rome quark relationship is is a little based on your real-life brother. I won't say that because my brother will take umbrage, but I certainly never called my brother an idiot, no. Where do your brothers live? Where do your two brothers live? Culber City.

My brother lives in Culper City. Okay. My brother moved up to the Puget Sound. He had lived in Seattle for a long time, and then he came down to Southern California, and then at the end of his career, he had this gig where they would send him to tell people how to write proposals all over the world,

and he would just, go there and then come back every couple of weeks. Yeah. So when they retired, they didn't want to do the heat anymore, and they moved up to the Puget Sound where they're getting a heat wave. So there you go. But Don is very much a rocket scientist, and when the Columbia disaster happened, he took it very personally.

Yeah. Because he worked on one of the systems in the Columbia. So, Kitty, your brother worked for NASA or for another aerospace company? No, he worked for various. I can't remember the name of the company in Seattle. And then he worked down here for Hughes and Boeing sort of together. And then he moved down. He worked for a company called Rocket Research.

And then he moved down and worked sort of to the Temecula area because that's where one of the kids and two grandsons are. And he could easily get to the San Diego or the Long Beach Airport. And that was when he started flying around the world and being a trainer or whatever you call it. Consultant. He was a consultant. People, they would have teams, and he loves it. He's still friends with people all over the world when they were, they went to Europe

and he spent a couple of nights with some friends who had moved just outside London. And it's great. It's good. I want to meet your brothers, both of you, both of your brothers now. It sounds very exciting. And Kitty has another brother as well, so let's not forget about it. All the brothers. What is he doing?

This is a moment for all the brothers. I don't have a brothers, no. What does your other brother do? He was a salesman. He sold big computing systems, yeah. Oh, you can sell ice to Eskimos, yeah. He's that, he's that guy. He's that salesman.

Yeah. I was going to ask you also about the makeup, the Bajor makeup. I know it's not a Ferengi makeup, but do you remember any of the makeup process or getting ready? That was easy. Makeup wise, because, you know, women do a lot of makeup, so this little thing was nothing. The wigs were not particularly fun. Yeah. But it wasn't a big deal.

The only thing is I was. walking to the set and Armand's makeup lady Karen who I'm quite fond of went oh I wish I'd done that and then kept walking and I'm like oh that's not like you're going to hear before you go on camera just what I wanted to hear yeah but you know that sounds like Karen Westerfield though she would say that yeah it is care um and speaking of makeup and I stopped kitty from talking about but now that you're talking about makeup maybe now's the time kitty you should tell them about Deborah Okay. So Deborah had a hideously bad allergic reaction. Like they had really bad and she was so stoic about it, like almost hospitalized her bad reaction to that scria makeup. Yeah. And she

did make up looked like an allergic reaction. It looked like a bad. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know the process of what they did to? Yeah, what do they do? I don't know except she just kept and and And they, after the first day, she started to feel about the second day, she was really sick. I think I came to the third day. I'm, you know, I'm not going to swear by that. And she was so sick, and she was, like, vomiting and migraines and dehydrating, and it was really bad. And she just never, because of who she is, she never complained, she never, you know, and

you take this incredibly beautiful woman, and you make her look like that, and she was cheerful about it. She was amazing. The Screan makeup is one of makeup supervisor Michael Westmore's favorite makeups due to its simplicity, simplicity and effectiveness. The bumpy skin makeup was created by combining little bags of pumice found in a hobby train shop with liquid latex, which was then applied to the actor's faces and dried. So that's how they made it. Maybe it was the pumice. I don't know what pumice is. It's something you clean toilets with.

That's right. Is that? And heels. If you've got crusty heels, you take a pumice to your heels. A pumice stone to that? Yes. But the fact that it was inexpensive because, as we'll talk about later, there's a scene with them with dozens of Scria showing up.

They had to have a makeup that was easily pliable and cheap so that they wouldn't break the budget with the makeups. Did you notice when people, all the Scria were coming through the portal and some of them had more pumicey stuff than others? Yeah. that's really yeah yeah there's certain shots where i'm looking at at walter's son and it looks like he has nothing absolutely nothing and then other shots when it's a close-up you see everything and i was thinking did they just not apply it in certain no they they had a dermatologist in the

family and so he was he had good a good regiment he had a good Now I understand. Thank you, Robbie. That explains it perfectly. Absolutely. I had another question during kiddie time. I just want to make sure we touch on Pankan. Oh, thank you. And that's part of your life. Do you want to talk about that at all? I'm a 20-year survivor of pancreatic cancer. I've been here before to talk about it. I'm so lucky. And at that time, there was a 4% chance of making it five years. It's up to 13% now. And if you're diagnosed, Stage one, I was stage 2B. You have a much better shot than you did.

It's incredible how fast things are changing, but it's not changing fast enough. So Armin and I, Jonathan Frakes, who lost his brother, Daniel, John Billingsley, who lost his mom, and Mani Cotto's brother, J.C., who is fabulous. We love one, Carlos Cotto. He's amazing. A great addition, because Manny passed from it, have formed a team. It started with Armin and Freaks and I, and then we just keep building because so many people. people now have pancreatic cancer.

It's the second leading cause of cancer death in the United States. And so we formed this team and we work with the pancreatic cancer action network to raise awareness and raise funds and bother people in Congress to pass bills and stuff like that. And if I may, one of the things that Franks always says, one of the things that Kitty does is provide hope. Usually if you get diagnosed with this disease, you're told, as Kitty was told by what her first doctor, you're going to die very soon. So what Kitty's story does is provide hope for people to say, you know, it's not true.

It doesn't mean it's not necessarily a death sentence. And as Kitty just told you, the survival rate has quadrupled in the time since she was diagnosed. We're just at Star Trek Long Island. I talked to a lot of people about it, but there was a, my helper who was fantastic, has a couple of the things that you would want somebody to just put you on a regular check regimen. and they don't want to do it because of the insurance companies. And I'm like, you know, let's call Pankan and see if we can get some help for you. So if you have a problem or if you all of a sudden get diabetes or you all of a sudden have pancreatitis

or you're losing weight inexplicably or you're turning yellow. If you're turning yellow, that was one of my symptoms. The day I got to the hospital, I turned yellow. Call Pankan or go on their site and talk to somebody because we have help for you. That's great. We have absolutely got help for you. And will you delineate all the good things that pain. can does besides that. Yes, they have a patient and family services. They'll help you with

counseling and nutrition and helping you get to whatever you need to get to. They'll help you find the best trials that are going right now. They raise money. They pay for trials. They go to Congress and ask for money. They were the people who went out to the FDA and then IAH and said, if somebody's in a trial and it's not working, you have to let them out. You have to let them out and let them go try a new trial. And that rule changed because of Pankan and they get all of the cancer organizations and all of the pancreatic cancer organizations talking to each other so people aren't learning. So people are learning from each other's work and they're not just holding it closely and people aren't making the same mistakes over and over again. It's really an organization.

I'm so proud to be part of. One last thing. Will you tell them about Purple Stride and what it does? Yes. And Purple Stride. Once a year, we have 60 cities around the country where we do a walk. And we raise money and it's a big party and it's kind of great. And there's so much hope when I was standing on stage this year in Santa Monica and looked out at thousands of people making a heart at me. I almost burst into tears. I don't think she expected that. Yeah. I didn't. Thank you. I almost burst into tears. Yeah, there we go. I'm a terrible at it. But there you go. Look at Robbie. No, you're good. You guys are pros. I was personally, except I wanted to get a laugh, so I didn't, so I didn't burst into tears because I'm a cheap, I'm a cheap, cheap woman.

And we've raised, Pankan has raised millions and millions and millions of dollars. And where does that money go? It doesn't go in our pockets. It goes into research. The reason why the survivability rate has quadrupled is because Pankan also sponsors research into pancreatic cancer and gives money to aspiring doctors and research in order to find ways not only to help cure the disease, but more importantly, at this point in time, to find markers so that if you're getting a physical and a marker shows up, long before you have the symptoms,

you can say, oh my God, you need to be checked for pancreatic cancer. Because as Kitty said, if you catch it early on, your survivability is much, much, much. They also try and talk to doctors about early detection because doctors just, you know, if you're in a small town somewhere in the middle of nowhere, the doctors just, they can't hold on to everything. And so many of the symptoms of pancreatic cancer are the symptoms of other things that they don't know how to put it all together. So we are trying to educate doctors for early detection. And it's working. People are getting detected early. It's great. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, everybody should check out. Everybody should check out Pankan.org. I just wanted to make sure we had a little time for that because that's a real important part of your life, I know. Thank you.

And then my question to you, Kitty, is when you're saying the skin color turning yellow, is that just part of your, like the hands or the where, what part of your skin? My whole body turned yellow. The entire body turned into. I mean, we were sitting in the waiting room of cedars in the emergency room and I literally turned yellow in front of our men's eyes. I completely honest. And that had not happened before. No. Boy, the timing of that getting in there.

I just happened to get to see my doctor. There were so many miracles happening that week that should not have happened and did happen. Really, the doctor said, you have to go to a hospital now. And she was right because really, we're sitting in the hospital waiting room, and she's beginning to turn the other. The doctor was spot on about diagnosing. My kidneys and my liver were shutting down. It was, I was dying.

Dasis was about to happen. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I was dying. Septic. Yeah. Your organs are becoming septic, sepsis. Yeah.

Wow. Wow. I know. I know this is a serious topic, but I kept thinking, you know, Asians are talked about as being yellow in their skin tone. So I was thinking like, for, you know, for everyone, for everyone turning yellow is, is the symptom. But for Asians turning pink, turning Caucasian, that is their symptom. You know, that type of yellow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, you turn the color of,

of sick urine. Wow. Yeah. And the urine told from, from the tip of your forehead to your toes. My whole body. That to me is just, wow, that's, that's a warning sign. You know immediately once you see that. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for sharing. When that happens, it's too late. You're rather late stage. Can answer. And the survivability is, is difficult. Right. That was the symptom that sent Jonathan's brother, Daniel, to the hospital. Okay.

And Mani Koto as well. Yeah. Well, Mani got diabetes first. Right. So early onset of diabetes is one of the symptoms that prognosticate that you may have it. Right. Okay. Yeah, thank you for sharing all that.

Yeah. That's really good. I'm lucky and I should share and help. Yeah. Oh, well, we're so lucky to have you. Yes, we're so lucky to have you with us still. And we love you so much. So thank you for being here and sharing.

We feel the same way about you. Oh, Robbie. Hearts for kidding. Can you move that so I can make dollars as well? Come, stop it. We need to add that to the Zoom functions for the Ferengi dollars on. That's so awesome. We do have birthday.

that we do need to talk about right now. And that is the birthday of our good friend, Nicholas Albano, July 14th. Happy birthday, Nicholas. Happy birthday, Nick. Happy birthday, Nicholas. I actually flew out to the East Coast to attend Nicholas's wedding. This was a year or two ago, I think, yeah, a year and a half. Yeah, Garrett was at his wedding, and I sent some recipes for cocktails.

So there are two, the bride and grooms cocktails were from the podcast recipes that I used to do a cocktail video every month. And so I pulled from that. Do you remember what they were? You can't remember. I'll say this much. They were a hit. People were very excited to drink Robbie's made-up concoctions. And yes.

And people kept saying, we want to use the same recipe at our wedding, I know, of these cocktails. So people kept a hit. Yeah. I mean, I was very nervous. I remember feeling very. stressed. It felt like a lot of pressure to come up with a wedding cocktail. That'd be crazy. Robbie, you go to a bar in the East Coast 10 years from now, and you see on the special, like, you know, right now you can get a Robbie McNeil for, and they're like, they've already named your drink,

your name. It's just, yeah. Better Robbie McNeil than Tom Paris. I'm just saying. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh, my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends,

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uh shall we start with poetry let's start with poetry yes let's do okay let's hear your son let's hear your limerick then here we go and by the way i just want to let everybody know we uh just published our book of poetry from the voyager synops Yes. We put all of the poems, the hikus and limericks, into a book. You can get it on our website, the delta flyers.org at our store, and it's selling like hotcake, so you might want to check it out quick. It's so exciting. It's really fun. The book of poems is hilarious. Impressive. It is kind of impressive. It is. I got to say, it looks great. The cover art looks great. We even have signed copies, too. So people want to get those we have those available as well so and i've been watching you send them out in the mail it's been fun oh yes i'm not going to say it's been fun but i'm not going to say it's been uh it's been a lot it's been a journey it's a hit it's a hit the poems are a hit which is a thrill because it started as just a way to cut down our rambling about the the synopsis let's be honest it started with ravi would do a

synopsis of the episode and he would 10 15 minutes he would ramble it was and then Odo would go walk over to the and it was I'd sit there and go Robbie this is not it's not a synopsis it's not a synopsis you're just telling us the episode basically so how about we just get a

tight one with poetry and boy it's been great it has become almost like the signature segment of our episode in a way you know well now the pressure's on because I'm going to have a limerick to this episode so you're going to You're both homers telling this saga. Yes.

Yes, just imagine Homer reciting this poem as I read it to you now. Here we go. Through the wormhole comes a new refugee. Cisco helps them because it's his duty. Kira makes a new friend, but alas, in the end, it turns out Bajorans are kind of snooty. I wanted you to pronounce snooty the same way. Stoo-Tee. I was hoping I'd get that from you.

You didn't do the snooty, but good enough, Robbie. Yes, thank you. Oh, my God. Okay. Here is my haiku. My haiku for the episode sanctuary. Refugees arrive. Bayjor is their destiny.

Request is denied. Very succinct. Very good. Yes. Quite a good haiku. Thank you. I think we're starting to get the spirit of the episode. But let's hear some etymology.

Okay. Here's the pedantic offering. So this is the definition from the Oxford English Dictionary. The Latin word is, oh, the post, it's from the post-Augustin era. And in classical Latin, its only meaning is the private cabinet of the prince. So that's the Augustine Latin meeting. But the more modern times, it means a holy place. This meaning was first found in English in 1340.

It can also mean heaven or, quote, to test something by the scales of divine revelation or a piece of consecrated ground. That's the meaning. It has a lot of spiritual meaning. It's not just a place to retreat to. It's a place of kind of, you know, reviving your soul in some way and very noble with the whole princely private quarters thing. Exactly, exactly. Wow. Wow.

So I would actually think that all of Deep Space Nine is a princely quarter, but that's just me. Especially the Bar. Especially the Barx Bar. Yeah. Well, especially the hollow suites. That's a private. Yeah. Right you are.

Oh, my Lord. Okay, let's go through the guest stars right now. And we have the very, let's say, longest resume ever of William Shalert, or Bill Shalard, as you know. You guys worked with them at SAG, as Varanee, Andrew Koenig as Tumach, Aaron Eisenberg, of course, is Nog, Michael Durel as Hazar, Betty McGuire as Vena, Robin Curtis Brown as Surad, Kitty Swink as Razan. Deborah May as a unique. Now, yeah, that's, that is our guest stars. Did anyone want to talk about any of these guest stars that they've worked with before? Well, I could talk about Kitty Swank, but I'll let her talk for herself.

But Bill Shalard, who we've known for a very long time, one of the nicest, kindest, sweetest man's and an enormous, his lifetime contribution to actors. He was the president of the Screen Actors Guild for many. years he served with kitty on the pension health fund um he's from my first meeting to my last meeting no one was sweeter or kinder or more gentle than bill shaller yeah i i met him socially a few times that he was a lovely kind warm just down to earth man yeah and one of my great disappointments on the show is that bill only shows up in this episode yeah yeah yeah he's such a perfect Star Trek actor. He's a great actor in anything, but he's such a great actor, yeah.

Not a lot of sci-fi, though, on his resume, from what I noticed. I feel like, yeah, I don't think he even saw this. I don't think he even saw DS9 before he worked on it. So, yeah, that's I remember I'm saying to me in the boardroom, you know, I'm doing Armand's show, blah, blah, that's all I. Good, great. We're on it together. And we were honored to have. And we were honored to have a Walter's son, Andrew, with us as well. So that was kind of wonderful to have both Kitty and Bill and Andrew together. And Deborah, Deborah is just extraordinary. The co-star credits, which come at the very end of the episode, are Leland Orser as Guy and Nicholas Schaefer as Cowell.

These are Deborah May's husbandmen, you know, or boy toys, whatever you want to call them. But it's crazy because we see Leland Orser go from non-speaking role to on Voyager. He was the main guest star. Remember the Robbie? Do you remember he played the he played the android that kind of went bad and killed his killed all the humans or the other aliens? Yeah. So that was Leland Orser from Voyager.

I think he goes bad a lot. I think that's his sort of. Is that his thing? Yeah. He's carved out a niche for himself. Yes. Okay. I do want to also mention Robert Curtis Brown.

I worked with Robert a few times. Robert Curtis Brown was your partner at the table, an amazing actor. One of the great things or interesting things is there are hundreds of thousands of actors in the United States and more around the world. It's amazing to me how many friends, people that we know, end up working together. You know, it's sort of serendipitous, but every one of the episodes that I've been discussing with you, there's always somebody that I knew before they did the show. And it's kind of wonderful that it's, despite the enormity of the membership in the guilds and the unions, the circle of friends is large enough to include so many people.

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. You know what's so crazy, guys, because I never saw it. as Robert Curtis Brown. The entire time I've been... You said Robin. I heard you. I thought it was Robin.

Robin Curtis is a different person. I know. I was going to ask you at the beginning. I was like, what did Robin play? I have no clue what she played. Because I don't, was she, was she a screan? Was she an alien with complete prosthetics? So we didn't recognize her.

It's Robert Curtis. So in the beginning, Robbie, why didn't you correct me? My idea, because I knew I was going to get to it. later on. We can start this podcast all over. We're almost an hour in. We can start it all over. We haven't even started talking about the episode yet. Robert Curtis Brown. I'm sorry, Robert Curtis Brown. Uncle Les Landau directed. We love Uncle Les Landau. But I will say I may be an outlier here. This is not his best work in my opinion. Okay. You would not be an outlier. I agree. You would not be an And I'm also a fan of less, but yeah, but let's, I'm going to play devil's advocate.

I think every artist is guilty of phoning it in once in a while. And that's, don't point it, Armin. No, I'm playing it myself. I thought you're pointing at Arbor like, he's the one that phones it in all the time. I'm like, oh, geez, okay, you're saying, well, all right, but, but we all agree, we've all done it before. And I think, it's going to, am I right? As a director, you can phone it in too, right? Robbie, I mean, it's like, oh, yeah.

So, yeah, Robbie's like, yes. Okay. Sometimes you just want to make your day, get through it, and life is happening, and you're just like, I'm here. I'm going to do it, but this is not going to be my best work. Yes. I think that's true with Les in this episode.

Yes, but I think we love Les so much, all of us, that we're going to give him a pass on this. We're not going to sit here and say, yeah, he gets a mulligan, for sure. So directed by Uncle Les, Story is by Gabe Esso, Kelly Miles, and teleplay by Frederick Rappaport. There you go. Yeah. It's an interesting concept.

It's a little early for this, but it's an interesting concept of this whole, the overview of the whole episode. Very meaningful. Not only was it meaningful in the 1990s when it first aired, but it's, I can make the connection. It's very meaningful now as well. Absolutely. They talk about how the original ending was that the Bajorans, a lot of it. allowed them to go to Bay Jor. That was the original ending.

Wow. And I think it was, it was either I, let's see, here we go, who was it, Michael Pillar. Michael Pillar says, no, let's flip that. So he's the one that changed it and said, no, they can't stay there. And that really does change the episode, right? It does. Can you imagine how stale and plain, you know, rapperish that would have been if they stuck with, Yeah, you want to come to Bejor? All three million of you? Sure. Come on over. Yeah, it'll be a whole

difference. Also, you wouldn't have had that very last scene with Kira, which is one of the best scenes. It was the, it was the scene that I didn't expect. Correct. Yeah. It really, yeah, it's great. Thank you to Michael Pillar for that. Yeah. And the fact that there's no forgiveness from the Scree aside is right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's right. It's real. It's relatable. Yeah. That moment, that last scene was very related. and felt very honest yeah and kitty just as we told sorry kitty just as we told arman before when you began at any point if you have any comment about anything interrupt ravi and myself yeah please interrupt us because we'll just keep back we'll just keep talking so she's used to doing that with me

so there's not a problem here once okay okay and i and heave with me so yes that's that's called marriage only at my peril only at my peril interrupt each other is marriage it should be in the vows 43 years of interrupting each other. Yes, exactly. Okay, so the first scene is in the commander's office. Basically, it's Kira and Cisco. Sisko is kind of reprimanding Kira in the scene because he hasn't gotten the duty roster for next month.

And he mentions he's heard her fighting with the provincial government, yelling and off. Wait, wait, wait, wait. He mentions she's fighting with the provincial government and specifically Minister Rosam. Ah, yes, you're right. Kitty. Oh, I didn't know that that's, yeah, I didn't know that was coming up.

So I didn't make that connection yet, but you're right. Yes. And he says, you can yell all you want as long as it doesn't interfere with your duties here. So she's a bit in trouble in this scene. Yeah. Got her tail between her legs. There is a reference I picked up where he says, you've been shouting at the monitor for the last two days. And I thought, is this a callback to the pilot when he,

heard her yelling. Do you remember in the pilot? Yes, he was yelling and he goes, well, I guess I should meet Major Kira now. Maybe this is not a good time or something. He made a comment like, should I meet her? Wasn't she, Robbie, wasn't she yelling at the,

like she was communicating with somebody on Bayjore. So that yelling could have been with Kitty's character already in the pilot episode. She's been arguing with you since the pilot. And yet they didn't bring me back for another episode. Yeah, I know. on now but it but it is it does seem to bring into focus to remind us that there are problems on Bejure yeah right which we have seen in the other episodes yes yes yes previous

episodes and I think that's just the continuing of that also the fact that that her strident nature is counterposed with how she seems to appear in the rest of the episode where she's very giving and everyone all the screen are trusting her yeah not She does have a stride in nature, and they were reminding us, don't forget about that. You know, it's funny, I just thought of this and I don't want to forget it as we talk. So we do discover that they're more trusting when they can't speak, the universal translator is not working, so they can't speak to each other. And Cisco says, well, they seem to be more trusting of you than any of us when you lead. And later we see that women are the bosses.

So you realize why they were trusting of. why they focused on her and not the men because women, it's a run by women. But then I just thought of this. When Dax is in a scene later on, Dax is Trill. So is she female, male? Are they, you know what if it gets very, very complicated of, are they trusting of Dax? Remember, Robbie, that on the outside, the out side, the outside, she's female. They're from the other side of the wormhole, yeah.

They wouldn't know. Yeah, it was just occurred to me now that that would be an interesting story to, you know, if it would have been an interesting scene. I wish that I had thought of like the missing scene. It would have been interesting for them to think she's a woman and then realize, oh, inside, you know, it would complicate their judgment of male and female. It would probably put them in a tailspin because, wait, she, nail is she female? Yes, that would have been very interesting.

I actually would have liked a scene, I'm spoiling here. I would have actually liked to see more episodes where the Universal Translator didn't work. There is actually one future episode where the Universal Translator is not working. It's a comic episode for the Ferengi. But I actually love the fact that they couldn't communicate. That was really quite a nice thing in the story. Yeah. Is there any instance of us being able to hear what the Ferengi language sounds like in Dias?

Yes, there is. Oh, they can't say an episode I'm referring to, yes. Oh, I'm looking forward to that. And I want to hear about how you memorized an alien language because we didn't memorize. We made it up on the story. You made it up? Okay. Good to know.

I wonder if they made it up in this episode. I don't know. It was so beautifully scripted so that all of a sudden a word would show up and then. Well, that was right. Yeah. So if they were going to make it up, they'd have to make it up in the same style, I think. Yeah. What season is that?

What season will that be? Do you know? He can't tell us. He can't tell you. I can't tell you. He literally can't tell us. But you shouldn't tell us. Well, I will say.

I can tell it to you in Ferengi, but it wouldn't work. I, you know, I see another Delta Flyers book being published, the Ferengi Dictionary. I've never seen it. I don't, you know, I'm just saying. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right.

So, Kira exits. She's been, we're out of scene one. Finally. Wow. Shea exis, she goes out into ops and O'Brien says, hey, Quark's been looking for you. He says it's urgent. And she's, as always, super excited to go visit with Quark. Always, always.

Perfect, she says. We cut into Quarks and there's a long panning shot, which I will reveal. There's a lot of these long panning shots opening multiple scenes. It becomes a pattern. That's part of why I think it's not less of it. best work. This one is very long. But we did see Lem in the back. He's listening to the So one of the extras, I'm going to digress even though I know we're going slow today. Lemmule Perry Lemuel was Tuvok's stand-in on Voyager. And he's in multiple scenes in this episode. He's kind

of featured in this long panning shot. I just want to shout out to Lennon. That's all I want to say. Well, this is not the first time we've seen Lenn. We've seen LEM several times on DS9 already, I feel. He feels very focused in this episode. Or I noticed him more in this episode. Sorry, Armil, what were you saying? I was going to say, if I was shouting out to stand-inston, and I want to shout out to David Levinson,

who the pan shot eventually lands on, the Ferengi waiter, who was my stand-in, who actually had a character name, and his name was Broick. And I'm very glad that we got some camera time for David as well. And he has an acting to do. He had a little acting.

And you'll see him during the course of all the season, you'll see him there that they used him when they could and eventually gave him some lines that's awesome well he did good with no lines see he did a good job in this episode he was he was invaluable to me our communication uh before every shot was invaluable because while they were while the cameras were practicing or rehearsing um i would come back and and david would tell me okay well they're going to do this this and this and you need to be worried about that that he was incredibly that's great That's a really nice guy. Yes, he is.

Genuinely nice guy. We should have him on the podcast. That's what I was going to say. Would he be up for coming on the podcast? Oh, yes. Oh, goodness. Okay, great. Well, that would be awesome.

Great. Well, we do have this long panning shot. All the people are captivated by this Bajoran playing some kind of flute-type instrument. And Kira goes in. It pans over. Morn is, even Morn is crying. Quark has to give him a... like a towel or so the bar towel to dry his eyes.

Oh, poor Morn. He's just so moved. He's very emotional. He's very sensitive, Morn. He is. That's what we get from this moment. Morn was speechless in this particular moment. Speechless.

Yeah, couldn't even bring himself to say a word. He was so moot. He was so talking of him, but he was speechless in this scene. Did everyone pick up on the tune, at least the music? Yes, it's the theme. It's an alternate version of the theme song is what it is. Oh, I didn't understand. It's still based in the intro DS9 theme and variations.

Yeah. Variation of it. Which I was conflicted about, to be honest. It felt a little inside baseball. Like, it bugged you? Were you upset? I loved it. Really?

I thought it was awesome. It was beautiful. Like, it's the theme song of a TV show, but yet they're playing it as a Bajoran traditional. It just felt. But it's not the exact same, it's not totally the same, it's a little bit off. I was conflicted, like I said. I liked it and I didn't like it. Fine.

All right. So there mesmerized. Kira comes in to seek work. He is very upset about business. This is killing business. Everybody's so moved and emotional that they're not spending money. I loved your projections. You know, you projected out today and you projected out hourly, what they're spending and then

weekly. And it was very funny, very well done. We do learn that this musician is named Vannari, that Kira wanted him to play for a month. And Kork agreed, so he's going to be here for a month. And Quark just says, can he play something more lively? Kira goes to talk to him. He says he'll play more music hall than symphony hall or something like that. Concert hall.

Exactly. More music hall. He gets it. And he does ask Kira about rebuilding the Jolanda Forum, which I guess was. like the Hollywood Bowl or something some very you know beautiful creative you know home of artistic work and he wants Bejor to reclaim its artistic heritage so um so they discussed that quick quick rewind uh the just the whole quark speech about projections yeah just the indicators the first the first part of that speech i monitor my gross income hourly that made me

laugh so hard because it just it just it just gives you that indication this is how the frankies operate they're like they monitor their gross income hourly no one does that i'm sorry but it was like lovely just the beginning of that i will say i started using quicken this last year are you monitoring your gross income hourly now i literally find myself every time i sit down on my laptop now. I'm like, let me check Quicken. Let me check my number. I got to fix this. I got to fix that. I got to categorize. Welcome to my world. I've been doing it for years. Years, years, years. Since we got Quicken, he was that guy. Oh, my God. It's very forangy, but I get the addiction to like monitoring. It becomes like a sport. Well, we go to ops next. I just want to say one

thing. Yes. About Quicken? Not about Quicken. Okay. I like the fact that she's, when, when Quark says that Can he play something a little bit livelier? She gives me a look that, you know, that's too much. And he very sweetly says, yeah, I can do that. So it shows the difference in the personalities. But not everybody has to be as strident as Kira can be at times. Not that she is all the time. She isn't.

But we're just being reminded of that, which I think is really essential for the overview of the entire series. Yeah. Yeah, good point. He does threaten. that if he continues to play, I've just forgotten the character's name, Barani. Yeah, he's going to go out of business. He's going to go out of business.

Barani. Yeah, Barani. And I think there's some truth in that. So, you know, not everything that Frankie say or lies. You may not agree with me, but you may not agree with me, you know. So we go to ops. Kira returns. She's a little overly angry at Quark, in my opinion.

A toad, she calls. Yes, that little too. See, that comment made me cringe. I was like, every time that stuff happens, and this, Kitty, this is something I've talked to to Armand about many times. Whatever any of the characters disparage Quark, I just, I cringe. Because I know Armin as a human being, and it makes me angry. And I get it.

His character is Ferengi, it's Quark. That's the way Quark does business. But for me, it still hurts my soul when I hear anything. It's so angry. It's so violent. Like a 360 out of an airlock? Yeah. I don't know.

It's vicious. And it feels really racist to me. Is that weird? But it does. It feels really racist to me. And in an episode where two cultures, too foreign alien cultures are coming together and she's trying to bring them together. Don't you think that after a certain amount of time, she should have some understanding of the Ferengi culture? Of course.

I mean, Quark is doing his best to understand, has understood the Bajoran culture. the Starfleet culture. Can't you do that as well? Your only ally, really, on this show is Dax. Dax gets it. Dax gets it. Yeah. Miles detects a ship exiting the wormhole in the scene.

They're in trouble, and they try to communicate, but they end up beaming over these aliens right into ops. And our screens appear kind of in crouch positions with their pumice. Flaky skin. Do you call it hummus? They're hummus, right? Hummus.

Oh, I thought you said. I thought you said hummus. You don't put it on a falafel. It's something that you put on your face. It's something you clean a toilet with. Could I get a side of pita with that hummus on your face, sir? Okay. Hummus.

Got it. But they beam in. And yes, I made a note. I think they need some face cream was my first impression of them. That's, that's, yeah, Cisco. They need, Cisco should have said, welcome to D-Face 9. Can we offer you some face cream? But he didn't say that.

There's a good facialist down the hall. Yes, exactly. Go out on the prom and I make it left. You get a nice facial. It'll be great. We go to credits. We come back. Cisco tries to talk to them, but the universal translator is not working.

So they don't understand how to get to the face cream shop. they don't understand their language yet Cisco keeps them talking wants to keep them talking because they need the universal translator to kind of learn their language he says they need some medical treatment so tells Kira to lead them there

since they're most comfortable with her we'll later learn why but yeah they're most comfortable with Kira the lone female that they see at that moment. Now we do hear you know we do hear Tumach speak in his language and he's he's very animated he's you know he's very uh he's kind of yelling aggressively and they talk about in this episode about

how the how the men are just too emotional to be leaders right so i feel like andrew kernick was right on in terms of he's always emotional but yet the two other lila norser and and the other actor playing the other husband they were the most non-emotional they were so introverted it was like wait are these mutes are they i was confused i was like okay if every male is emotional then they should have been really like, oh, or just filled with angst or whatever. Or maybe their emotions were fear and, you know, maybe that was, yeah. And aren't they supposed to be a little bit older than Andrew? Aren't they supposed to be?

Yes, of course. One gets a sense that Andrew is Deborah's son and the other two are her boy toys, as you put it. Right. So maybe they're older and have gone through puberty or something. But they are definitely, but they are definitely significantly younger than death. I mean, even then, they were younger than Depp in a significant way, yeah. Boy toys, yeah. Yeah, boy toys, yeah.

I wouldn't have picked them, but there you go. Yeah, I wouldn't either. Kitty's more interested in Toads, actually. In Toads? No, I'm fatally attracted to Arm and Shimmerment. Aw. They follow Kira out. We cut to the Promenade.

They're arriving on the promenade. Odo is there, and these screens are all very nervous, particularly the men. They're nervous. They hesitate to exit the lift. first they finally do they start to follow kira but then they're in awe of this promenade and they they start getting distracted by all the exciting things because the men from scria are very easily distracted i guess and they wander off here and there i love how otto is hurting them back

and kira exits and then come back in is very funny very funny the easily distracted screan men And Renee walked a very fine line of being authoritarian and sensitive at the same time. I thought that was a very nice choice. He was being Odo, but he was also trying to be nice about it. Yes, yes, exactly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, very funny little bit there. We cut inside a dress shop or some kind of shop that has clothes and has knick-knacks on a table.

And Hanik, Hanik? Hanik. Is that how you pronounce it? Hanik. Yeah. She's making a big deal about the dress. She's talking up a storm in her language, but nobody knows what she's. She just says one word, though, Robbie.

It's Intawa. So, in Tawa, me, well, it seems like she's saying, this is a beautiful dress. Amazing. The way she played it, yes. The way she played it, it was like wonderment, you know, Intawah, Entawa. But, of course, we realize that's not what that means later. And I really thought the dress on display, And the costume that she was wearing.

We're similar. We're similar. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, interesting. Yeah. They were kind of similar. Yeah.

And then for later for her to have such a huge critique about it, it's like, really? Take a look at your own dress lady. It's like it's equally ugly. Take the beam out of your eye before you talk about it. I have to say Bob Blackman, who is what has known Deborah since ACT, did not do her any favors with those clothes. No. Yeah. They were, you know, like, what was that thing?

with her boobs. I mean, it was weird. You know what it looked like? The way the colors sort of hit one boob and not another. Yeah. But the way it was formed, that dress, the boob area, it looked like, it was made to look like saggy grandma boob. You know what I'm saying? It was like, what are you doing?

What is this? So you're right. I did not know he was with Debra at ACT. So I almost feel like maybe Bob had some crazy little, you know, vendetta. He was like, I'm going to get her back when she's, I don't know. He loves her. She and her husband, George,

were always at the Christmas parties that he was in the hills. Yeah. So you would think that he would give her something a little nicer. Bob sometimes tries with all best intentions. I mean, it happened to me, and we won't tell that story again. We want to talk about that again. But, you know, he has the best intentions. It's just when he's having to churn out these alien clothes

week after week, sometimes it just doesn't. Bob Blackman, there are times. that he hits it out of the park where you're like, wow, that is amazing. And again, the churning of the clothes, because there is that one DS9 episode where you see all these people dressed as Starfleet. But the Starfleet uniforms, some of them were incomplete. Like they didn't, some of them didn't even open up at the, they didn't have the V. It was like a solid, you know, like a Mandarin collar almost.

It was like, oh. So I noticed that at times, wardrobe department was under a crush, a time crunch, basically. And they kept rewriting. Deep Space 9, Armand would go through the rainbow over and over and over again. Yeah. Oh, should I explain what that means? Yes. You can, yes.

So if rewrites come, the pages come in new colors, and then the next day the pages come in new colors, or sometimes the same day, they come in new colors, et cetera. And they would go through the rainbow. How many colors are in the? I don't even remember. I don't remember. I take a guess.

I think there were about 20 colors. 20 colors, yeah. And so we would start with white And then it would go through As Kitty said through the rainbow And then we start again Yellow pages, pink pages, blue pages Salmon pages

Green pages Oh yeah There would be obscure colors in there for sure But I've never kidding I've never heard anyone refer to it As going through the rainbow though So that's why I was a little bit of Yeah

I haven't heard that Well the other thing that happens in this scene That I thought was hilarious comedy Was the boys grabbing items off the counter And Odo's trying to put them back Hira tries putting them back and they just keep picking it up and putting it down

it was a great bit It was a great bit But it was a non-necessary bit It was good There's just a lot of unnecessary stuff That I'm going Yeah that's lovely But what does it have to really do

With the thrust of the show Except it's set up at the end of it That Andrew's character Could get violent Because he immediately That was the violence That was just The end of the fist back

So Oh interesting Yeah I didn't make the connection But he pulled his fist back in this scene At the end of the grabbing At the end of the camera Yeah Oh

Is it Kira? No, it was Odo He pulled it up The last time And he went like this Yeah Okay But you know what it is

You can have a little bit of the grabbing But I think it went on A little bit too long Yeah I mean if you cut You don't need to do it Over and over and over again It's almost beating a dead horse

At that point And what were those things? They look like a little candle thingies or something. Perfumes, candles. Who knows what they were? Little boxes. Lunch. Lunch.

Lunch. Lunch. Snacks. They're hungry. It's from crap service. Exactly. All right. So we go in the infirmary.

Finally, we get these people to where they can get some face cream. And Bashir is checking them out. And the boys start pushing each other very hard. Hold on. I just had this. So in the scene before, Andrew's character is picking up these boxes, right? And they're putting a bat and licks his hand up like this.

But then in the very next scene, the one we're about to discuss, is in the infirmity for a burnt, what looks to mean like a burnt hand. Yes. Wouldn't he have had trouble picking up anything with a burnt hand? Wow. And, Armand, I don't even know if that hand was treated or that scene where he was grabbing this stuff. because when they first arrive, when they beam in,

he's holding his hand and you see the plasma burn on his hand on in-offs, okay? Then you have the scene where he's grabbing all the stuff. I don't remember seeing the burnt hand. Neither did I. And then now you're in the infirmary and he's being treated because he's the only person that has an injury from that group of screens. It's just Tumach. It's just Andrew Karnik.

And now it's back. So my goodness, maybe there's some. Maybe there was a continuity. Connoity issue here, yeah. Well, they're arguing and Hanik yells at them and they stop. So we know that she's the boss, clearly. Bashir tries to heal this plasma burn, but they want Kira to do it. They hand it to Kira.

And then she says, no, I'm not a doctor, hands it back to Bashir. So they cautiously let this man, man doctor heal them. So clearly in their world, all the doctors are women, then, is my guess, right? Anybody of any importance of any job as a woman. Yeah. Clearly. Yeah. Okay.

We go into their guest quarters next. Cisco, Kira, Odo are showing them the quarters. Cisco replicates these maza maza stalks for for them to eat what the heck are have they had these been introduced before i've never seen the mass of stock no no it looks like a pretzel looks like a long a long skinny stuff i thought it was marinated asparagus i'm not sure no they were crispy they were crispy they were fried asparagus i think it sounds delicious by the way yeah it did i wanted one yeah yeah here has to show them it's safe. She takes a bite of it. They sit, they eat. And Hanik starts talking still in her

language, but slowly this translator is starting to work. She's basically revealing that her people need help. They need to get on this side of the wormhole. And they call the eye, this side of the eye. Yes, the eye of the universe. The eye of the universe. They ask how many people? And she says three. Kira asked three, how many? Three hundred? Three thousand. And then Oda says three million? And she says, yes, three million. Three million people need to come through the eye. You have to help us bring them.

That's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. And again, my literal brain just said, wait, wait, wait, we have real problem with the universal translator. And it can somehow figure out the, I mean, with very little information, it can figure out million is not a dozen. That just seems a little out of the realm. of possibility but hey i don't write the scripts it's super technology is yeah yeah once it gets

a little bit of info it can extrapolate maybe yeah it's good numbers yeah by this point a i is in their like 80th you know generation probably iteration iteration excuse me well so they got to save a lot of people we go to ops honique is very uncomfortable in ops now because there's so many men And this is where we learn that all the men in their culture are very emotional. And I love that whole concept, the comedic concept of the men. Just flipping the genders and using the stereotypes in a flipped way. It was, I thought, hilarious. It is.

And Terry had the best. Oh, my God. Absolutely. What is he saying? Terry. The back steps. Dax says. So, for sure.

share somebody goes did they say all the and she went yeah they said all of them that's funny i didn't i didn't remember that but oh it's a great look terry gives a great condescending looks oh this is when dach are all the all the all the women are a charge of everything and and uh and and and said bishir says uh all of them they did all of them and she went she said all of them and it was a look It was perfect. Her line is, you heard her, Julian, is her line. That's funny. It was a great look.

It was a wonderful look. That's funny. Well, Dax O'Brien, Kira, Bashir, and Odo were there. Cisco arrived. Sorry, I'm late. We learned that she was a farmer and just lucky to be the one that found the eye of the universe. Her people, the screens, are looking for this. And they believe this is.

going to lead them to the promised land she calls it cantana back back home they were forced to be slaves for the teetorot togorans i think they were slaves for somebody yes but they escaped what was that again robbie the te teagorans they were freed when somebody arrived and invaded the te teagorans and they asked who yes um and they say they don't know the name but someone from the dominion So this is the second time, yes. I've heard. First time, yes, first time we heard Dominion was on Rules of Acquisition. And that was when they were dealing with the really aggressive Ferengi-like race from the Gamma Quadrant.

Right. With Brian Thompson as the really buff guy. Remember that, Robbie? Yeah. And now we hear it again about the Dominion. In the notes online. And I see Armand's eyes sparkling when we don't know what the Dominion is. And he does.

He knows. They, looking online, they say that the group that sort of ousted the Scrian masters are the Jem Hedar, who we don't know who they are yet. Don't tell me who they are. But it is interesting that in the episode, Odo knows there's a look again. It's Odo and he looks at somebody who also knows. I've forgotten who we looked at. But it's the DS9 personnel have already begun to know this race, the dominion, which they have. Interesting.

Okay. That's very interesting. I wonder if the writers had a plan or they just were laying seeds of something generic that they wanted to... The first time might have been seeds. It seems to me that if you do it a second time, they didn't have a plan. Yeah. It could have made something up. They didn't.

They went specifically back to something that they had mentioned, as you said, in the rules of acquisition. And those aliens were the two rogerons really do sound like a hair loss treatment, you know. Doesn't it? I mean, it's like the T-Roganes. Yeah, T-Rogains. Without giving too much away, I don't think that T-Rogains are ever mentioned again. Not ever.

Why? Is it T-Rogains? No, it's not. It's T-Rogorans. I came up with the Rogenes. Because it looked like a... I think I called them the T-Tor-I put too many T-Ranosaurus rexes. Yes.

Obviously, I never encountered them. Arbeth. You went to Taronosaurus Rex and I went to Ticonderoga pencils. You said Ticonderoga pencils. Yes. It's filled number two pencils. Oh, my goodness.

Well, after the discussion of the Dominion, again, we go to the guest quarters where they're staying. Another slow opening pan in this room. That you don't like. No. It's just a uncle Lass who I really love. It's repetitive. It's repetitive. It just keeps. There's nothing interesting about it.

It's not creative. It's just like, want, want. And it's the same. slow pace, all of them. So it just bugged me. But I guess it was to establish that Hanik is restless or, you know,

struggling with what's happening. And I don't know what it was there for. But Kira arrives. She has woken up Hanik. So maybe that's what it was. It was a slow pan because she was kind of groggy or something. She was putting her bathroom up. We're now going for a stale joke.

We're going to, yes, it's clever, but it has nothing to do with the episode. It never gets used to get. Again, yes, she's just woken up and she's in basically, you know, a teddy or something. Not a teddy, but a bathrobe. She says she woke up and her husband's arrived. And this is where Kira learns that they're a polygamous society. And she does say something like, oh, you should get some mates too, some of these male mates.

They're very useful, she says. Dale. Kira, no, I don't have, Kira goes, no, I don't have any mails. Not at the moment anyway. It's just like, no. It's true, not at the moment, yeah. Don't feel, don't feel sorry for Kira. Oh, really?

Oh, she's going to be okay with mates. Oh, she'll be all right with mates. Look at the foreshadowing we have here. Okay. Well, Kira does let her know that they found some of her ships and that they're going to be arriving tomorrow. They want her to greet them. And she gives her a dress, the dress.

from the dress shop that she thought she loved yes she thought she loves it she's not happy she thinks it's hideous and kira admits she thinks it's hideous too and they both go out with hysterical laughter and it's seen about how hideous the dress it i didn't think it wasn't that bad the dress it was fine yeah yeah that dress was used another other other trick oh it was it really yeah it's how do you know that oh it's in the notes online because you know everything so it has been Do you know what episodes or what shows it was fun? Yeah, hold on. Okay.

Next to the horrible dress Haneek sees in the clothes shop on the promenade. Yeah. Outfits worn by Eurena in Code of Honor and Janice Mannheim and will always have Paris can be seen. Okay. So it's not actually the horrible dress, but the other. Oh, no, no. Excuse me. No, I'm wrong.

I'm wrong. So the other two dresses are worn by characters in other episodes. The horrible dress itself was worn by Sandra Wilde in Star Trek, the Next Generation episode. Deja Q. So TNG episode Deja Q, Sandra Wilde, the actress, Sandra, or the character Sandra Wilde, I don't know, wore that ugly dress. I wonder how many outfits Bob Blackman made in his run on Star Trek. I mean, he can count it. I don't think you can count them. But he also had stock costumes. Yeah. We used to go and you, you would see them. He had racks and racks of stock costumes. And if it was a lot of people, he couldn't make new costumes for everybody. So he would

just pull stock. And I think he often took pieces of different things and put them together to put on background actors and stuff. Do you remember that costume shop? I think it was the biggest department of the whole franchise. And what Bob had to do, I mean, we all had a lot of work to do for our individual shows, but Bob was working two shows at the same time. Oh, yeah.

While he was sick. While he was sick. Yeah. Oh, man. While he was sick, and it's extraordinary what he was able to do. Yeah. Do you guys remember that when the costume shop got robbed? Do you guys remember this?

No. Someone broke in and stole, I don't know, like 30 Starfleet uniforms. Do you recall? No, I didn't know. Nobody remembers this? No. And I was, they were talking about, do you remember if you're in, if you're getting fitted with Bob, if you look up in the costume, there's like these skylight windows that were up in there.

Yeah, the skylights, yep. And maybe that somebody, I don't know what happened, but bottom line is I, somebody made off with some stuff. So I'm shocked that nobody remembered this, though. It was an enormous warehouse. Like I said, I think it was the largest physical space of any other department on the show. Of course. Like, it was a warehouse. It was a mill.

And they had seamstresses and people working. Oh, it was a beehive to watch everybody working. But it was floor to ceiling racks of clothes. Oh, my God. It was filled. Yeah. Like you said, it was a warehouse. It looked like a warehouse.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was hot. I remember doing fittings in there. And sometimes those skylights you talk about, the sun would be coming in at the right angle, the right time of day. And you'd be trying to fit a costume that was hot already. Right. You know, the wool and things like that.

And I'd be sweating. I'd be like, I'm sorry, but it's so hot. And this outfit is so thick and hot. And I'm just sweating. Really? I'm so sorry that you felt that way. Really? That must have been different.

difficult for you. Because his costumes were made out of, out of upholstery material. Oh, my gosh. They were always hot. But they were gorgeous. They were gorgeous. They were hot. But also think about the Kardashians with, they were on wetsuits.

They were built. Between shots, they would strip the Kardashians out so they'd be standing there in their t-shirt. Yeah. I don't know. On stage, you had air conditioning. So it was, it was hot, but it was tolerable. But in that fitting room, in bobbing.

blackman's space it was not air-conditioned and right and i would venture to say i mean there's no way to tell now but i would venture to say that our sound stage was cooler than yours because we had more aliens than you yeah yeah yeah i think i think it was a little cooler i don't know about the two of you armin and ravi but for me coming back from hiatus and getting measured measurements done by by bob and his people i always felt like it was i had so much anxiety around that because i i was just like please please please say that i'm still close to my measurements because i didn't want to i didn't want to go in there it felt like i was going to see a priest you know like he was going to be judged yeah he's going to judge me he was like oh you've been

sinning you have sinned so much by eating so many junk food you know meals since uh you left and wrapped for the summer did he ever slap your hand did he ever do that he would just give me this look and he was like oh you've you know you've you've added an extra inch here and it had the same effect of being slapped on the hand. It really did. I'm so much. I'm so sorry. But now you can eat anything you like. And I do. And I have been. Yes. All right. So we're now going on to second level of the promenade where Jake and Nag are sitting discussing Jake's date with Marta. And forgive me, I know Marta becomes a character or perhaps she's already been a character. I know Marta is one of the Dabo girls that does show up in one of

the episodes, not two of the episodes, but I can't remember if it's before or after this episode. Oh, that's great. Is she age appropriate to Jake? Yeah, yeah. Really? She's the precursor to Lita. Oh. So we had, they tried. Chase Masterson's character. Yeah. They, they tried on at least two, if not three occasions, to set up a recurring double girl. And I believe, forgive me if I'm wrong. I believe Marta was the first of those. And how picky is it that it's an age appropriate double girl for somebody who, you know, for an adolescent? Actually, Marta is not age appropriate. She is in her early 20s, I would venture to say, whereas Jake is somewhere around, somewhere between 14 and 16. 16. Yeah. Yeah, I found

it a little creepy when Jake's talking about going on a date with a dabble girl, because My impression so far of Dabo girls is they work in casinos and they act as sort of escorts or some version of that. And, you know, maybe my... Is that right, though? Are they doing escort stuff, Armin? There is an episode where I certainly say that, yes, you have to do that if you work here. Oh, okay. That's the general impression I get is that they were just the dealers, though, Robbie.

I thought they were the Dhab. Oh, really? They are primarily the dealers and they serve drinks. And if, you know, in another iteration, they would be selling cigarettes. They'd be cigarette girls. Right. But there is an episode, and I can't remember which. And again, we may have already discussed it where Quark says you also have to be.

That's the impression I got is that they sort of, they do that as well, as court or, you know, female company. I thought that was a small percentage of their, of their duties is selling their bodies. It is a very, very small percentage. But even if it's one percent. Your primary responsibility is to be there at the bar, at the club, serving and helping. Sometimes their double wheel, they spend the double wheel. They have various responsibilities. But yes, as I said, there's one episode where I say, and they also have to be.

And even if they weren't, they're like too old for Jake. Jake looks like such a little boy. Yeah, he does. He does. It's a little creepy. Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Okay. Well, they're sitting up on that second level.

Love the second level. This opening shot I didn't mind because it was on a crane and it was beautiful. And they started talking as the camera was moving. And they gave us some great costumes and makeup just before they got up to Jake and not. There were these three creatures in these very flat. Oh, yeah. We've seen them before. I love that.

Yeah. They were cool. That costume and that makeup was. and that makeup was very cool. So I didn't mind looking at that before I got to Jake and No. The camera's moving on this visual interest and we hear the boys talking off camera

and then discover them. So it didn't feel like cameras waiting and waiting and now talk. It was all sort of tumbling out together. The pre-lap really worked, yeah. So this shot did not bother Robbie McNeil at all. Not me. Okay.

Those hats, those aliens wearing, they look a lot like the 35-millimeter film that houses the film, you know, that you put the new, when you have to text what they were, the mag, the mag, that's the word I could not remember, the mag. It looks like, it looks like that on their head, basically, painted gray, so. Well, yeah, Jake went out on a date with the Davo Girl, the not age appropriate double girl, and Nog is very impressed.

Jake says, no, says no, they studied. Marta was helping him study entomology. And I just want to point out, not etymology, like Armin does, entomology, the study of bugs. So if anyone was confused, but the best line is when Jake's... Thank you, you're welcome. When Nog asked, what is entomology?

And Jake says the study of bugs. Nog says, oh, you mean she wants to be a chef? Because we see that the Brinkies have been eating bugs the entire time. We do. We eat bugs. So, yeah, it's a great line. And I thought Aaron did it great. Armand, let's be very precise here.

When you say we eat bugs, no, no, no, no. it is rom who eats bugs on this show he's been established as the bug eater okay exactly that is absolutely true but but we also uh tube grubs is a delicacy for yes the grubs and you and you will see some of us eating tube grubs well i'll say well you haven't seen it yet but you will see it no we did we did we saw okay okay we saw your grand negas the negus that's right that's right they look down and see Tumag grabbing leftover food from a table. And Nog says, that's disgusting. Very judgy, very judgy about poor desperate Tumok.

Can we just talk about this for a second? Why would Tumach do something like that? He already knows that the replicators, but he knows the replicators work, though. I don't know if he knows. I don't think he does. I don't think he does. Seriously. I, she just handed him the food.

They didn't say this is how you get it. They, but no, he saw them. They replicated it from the replicator, and then she walked over and handed them. He's a desperate people who have been fighting for their lives, and there have been slaves. To me, that made sense. Like, he's desperate. He's just arrived here. This is the morning.

All right, all right. And he doesn't know. He doesn't know how to work a replicator. There's food. Why are these people leaving food? Right. It's wasteful. It's terrifying and waste.

I mean. And he's been enslaved. If we go back far enough in this episode, he's been enslaved and probably never knows when his next meal is come. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It made sense to me. Although his mother is a farmer, so he probably did know it.

All right. So it didn't bother you. None of that. That scene doesn't bother you. What did bother me was the background people who were not necessarily repulsed by what he was doing. The people that were right next to him weren't repulsed, but Nog, half a set away, is repulsed. That's true. That bothered me a little.

Yeah. I hear you. And so I think someone should have told the background people, you need to be just as repulsed. A little shock. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's not how we do things on DS9. Yeah.

And Uncle Les should have told that to the first AD, who should have told that to the extras? Yeah. Right. The first AD, right, should. Well, we go to ops next. We see a ship exiting the wormhole. Wush.

Brian says the screen ship is cleared to dock at Upper Pylon 2. So they're welcoming their people. We go outside the airlock and we see masses of people streaming through this airlock. Lots of oatmeal makeup on their face. What do you guys think of the hair? What does it remind you of? The lady's hair? All the ladies have the same hairdo.

What does it look like to you guys when you see the hair the first time? Niagara Falls. Washboard for Armin, Niagara Falls for Robbie. And for me, toast coming out of a toaster. Wow. Okay. Toast toast heads is what they're. Here's what it reminded me of ugly.

Wow, that's a bad hairdo. Wow. It looks like an exaggerated version. of a very conservative, pious sort of Amish look or something. Robbie, perfect. Because you just hit on what I thought of. I thought of, when I saw the ladies, I thought of it's a mix between,

if Amish was given a treatment by Dr. Seuss. Dr. Seuss and Amish together is that hair and that look is what it is. And the question is why. And Tom Jones, the aunt was... Tom Jones, yes, yes. But why, Westmore must have known, the makeup designer must have known

he's going to have to do dozens of these women this way. Why do that? Why all that extra cost? Yeah. Why? All the time. And all the extra day player hair people they had to bring in to work on everybody's hair like that because that there was not one hair out of place.

I mean, that thing was perfect, which takes a lot of hairspray. Screens use a lot of hairspray. Well, they just put a little throw pillow in there and then they just put the hair over it or something. And most of the people. working as Screens were women, so that made it even more. Even more with, yes, yes. They could have done, like, you know, in the pharingia, you've got that little thing that veil.

They could have done something like that on all the women. Little Amish bonnet hood. Just pin up their real hair and put a little bonnet on them and Bob's uncle. They could have. Done. I love actually all the masters of people. I thought that Lest did a good job on that. Uncle Lest did a fabulous job of making these extras look like thousands because we all

know they probably hired 30 or 40 people or 50 people, you know. And it did look like hundreds or thousands of people. The frame was always filled. Even when he started down low and moved up high for the next scene with, I think there's a scene when we start with thousands of people down below and then go up and I think Cisco and Odo are talking or something. There was people in the foreground. It was just really well, very efficient, very, very well done to make it feel like lots and lots of people. We go to the promenade a little later. Nog is being chased by Tumach and a couple of his buddies. Odo stops all the boys from running. Tumok accuses Nog of spraying him with some kind of stink spray. Nog reluctantly sort of admits it. He says it was a joke. And then Odo grabs him by

his ear. Yeah. Drags him off. How do you feel about that? Don't feel good about that. I don't feel. And I, and I really, what would say to Renee, my own friend, he knew better than to do it. Well, maybe it was scripted that way. It may have been scripted that way, and he may have been told to do it by the director. But it's like saying, okay, I'm going to grab you by the gentle rules and pull you on. Yeah, pretty much.

It wasn't a good idea. Yeah. Do you have this script by chance? I do. Just to see if he grabs them by the lobe because, yeah, you're right, it is, it's, it's the sexual. If it weren't that connotation, it would be perfectly okay. Right. The problem is it.

It's frangy. It's a fringy lobe. It's going to be like grabbing a human man by the. By the testes. Really hard. And dragging them. So it should have been, he should have grabbed him by his, his collar or whatever, his clothing, his arms, just, yeah, which he has done before, I think.

He has grabbed Nog, but never by the ear until this scene. Okay. So in the script, it says, Thank you for, Odo says, thank you for bringing this to my attention. I'll take care of it from here. And it says, Odo turns to Nog and escorts him away. Oh, wow.

René should have known better at that point. You're right. Okay. Okay. Yeah, because that's a pretty, that's a very aggressive, very personal kind of grabbing the ears. Agreed. Yeah.

I do like Tumach's final line, which is, this isn't over yet, big ears. Like, this is the first time you heard any type of, like, any type of race or species slur, you know, against the perengi saying big ears. I haven't heard big ears before. I was a toad earlier in the episode. Yes, you were a to, but not in reference to any physical, physical part of your frangy body, right? The toad is a toad. But big ears, interesting. Okay.

Well, we go to the security. office next. Nog is looking at some wanted posters on the wall. This is something about illegal weapon sales. He almost reveals to Odo that Quark knows. He knows about this when Quark arrives and... Very suave, very sophisticated. I'll take it from there. Yes, exactly. This happens, this, Robbie, this has happened a couple of times before where someone will say something about cork and he's not in the scene and he'll, and then he'll walk in right on cue. Just to cover himself. He had to cover himself. Yeah.

It's those big ears. It's not, he's right. That's true. It's not mentioned very often, but the pharyngea have incredible hearing. Yeah. And they can hear across a room, across anything, and they have incredible hearing. So it's plausible. It's very plausible.

Yeah, very plausible. Yeah, he covers himself, saves himself by saying, yes, Quark knows better than to ever get involved in anything so disreputable. so he's right on top of it. Quirk tells Nog to apologize and say he won't do it again. Nog does, although clearly not very sincere about it, but he is allowed to leave. And then Quark tells Odo that the screens are trouble. He doesn't like them. They're nothing but trouble. They're leaving flaky skin all over his bar, driving away customers. And not buying anything. Yeah. But they're an ex-slave.

race. They don't have any money. They can't really buy anything, really. Quark doesn't care. But I think it's so interesting because it's so racist about Ferengis early in the episode, and now he's doing it. He's super racist about the screens, yeah. When you see Quark doing it? We'll see later

the Bajorans kind of doing it too, so yeah. I think that's important because you never see racism really on Star Trek, and this is important to why this episode unfolds the way it does, I think. Yeah, I agree. When Knox looking at the wanted posters. He says, what kind of name is Plix Tix-a-Plick? And I just made a note,

that's a great name. Tix-Pick-Wicks. Where is it? Plix-a-Pliq. Is that it? And Odo says, I believe he's a Riggerian. These names, they come up with, Plicks, Tix-A-P-Lick. I love it. Why do I not see that? Why do you not see that? And Renee were very happy when they saw that in his script, you know, what the hell is this? Yeah. Yeah, it's very funny. Where is that line, Robbie? Wouldn't you say that? It's the opening line. He said, oh, hey, here's a new one, Nog says. What kind of name is the very first line, yeah. Yeah, very first line. Great name. Plicks, tix, tix, a plic. Great name in terms of you would use that name to name. I just like it. I just plics, tixoplic is a great name. It feels like it should be a toy company or

something. Robbie, the next pet you guys get, I want you to call it plix tix a plix. Plick. That's my dog. Ticks, plicks. I can even say, it's a tongue twister. It's a plix. Plicks, tix a plix. Plicks, tix, tix, and plix. Tix, tix, and plick. Those are my three dogs. There you go. I just want to point out at the end of the scene, which I thought Renee and I did rather well. I thought it was great. I think it's a great scene. Yeah. We get the standard. auto reaction to corp which is there's a grunt there's a really like that which which is as emblematic of the show as the two boys sitting on the second level with their legs dangling yeah it's it's it just becomes a signature item yeah so you both

give sound effects to each other at the very end doesn't he right so he's like and you're like you do something yeah exactly because i've now gotten used to his grunt so now you're grunting right Yeah, I love it. The Universal Translator is going to have to learn what those grunts mean. That's actually one of my favorite moments in this episode is actually how the grunting between the two of you was really awesome. Yeah, we go to Quarks next. Verani's playing something more upbeat this time, but there's lots of Screeans around now. And we see five women screens sitting at a table.

And they decide that Hanik is going to be the one to lead them to the promised land since she was the one that. she's Moses exactly this is the point when I was scanning the table going which one is robin Curtis which one is Robin Curtis I know she's here Robert Curtis Brown thank you yes but all the women make make her the boss and then they leave as Kira arrives and Hanik shares with Kira that she feels really alone being the boss and the you know a lot of pressure basically and so it's a nice bonding moment with Kira and honey Kier And I think it's part of the wonderful character development that Deborah May has. She says, I'll do the best I can.

There's a great arc for this character, where she starts out as a farmer and eventually becomes the leader of her people. And this is one of those important moments in that arc where she says, I'll do the best I can. She's learning, yes, she's capable. She didn't think she was capable before. Now she's learning it's possible. I could be capable.

I could be capable. When she says, I'll do the best I can. She took that little beat before she said that, too, which was perfect. That was the right beat. Yeah, and it's interesting you bring up that arc arm, and I hadn't thought of it quite so specifically. She does have a strong arc because by the end, not to spoil any endings, but that last scene, again, one of my favorite scenes in the episode, she's strong, she's smart, she has all the confidence in the world. She's not second-guessing her.

She's a leader. She's a leader. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great point that there's a good arc for her. Kira does let her know that Cisco's found a place for them or is looking for a place. They haven't found it yet. Cisco's looking for a place. Then Varani comes over, our Bajoran flute player, and he lets, Honey, know that he understands what it's like to be displaced.

He's very empathetic with them, their situation, because they're refugees too. The Bajorans are, they have a lot in common with them. And he offers this hologram as a gift. So he offers, Honey, this little statue thing that plays a hologram of him playing the flute, a beautiful song, which is a really nice thing. Yeah, it's a little bass that projects the image is what it is. We go to the guest quarters again. Hanik's putting this hollow projector out on the table as Tumach comes in.

He's mad. He's going to wash up because he's got this. stinky spray all over him. And then it seems like Hanik has a thought. And she goes to the computer and says, show me the computer. Show me the star system. Show me a chart of the star system. And we see her sort of happy about this. So we know she's thinking of something, having an idea here. We go up to the promenade again. Jake and Nog are walking. Tumach and his friends corner them. They grab a nog, a fight starts. Quark hears it, comes in, stops it. And Quark says he doesn't want them here. They're trouble, bad guys, these kids, these screan kids.

And Tumach says, well, feelings mutual. We don't want to be here either. And he leaves. I love the hiss. Nog hisses and quirk kind of hisses that Ferengi hiss. Well, in my notes, I write down that it's basically Aaron Eisenberg doing his impression of a cat at the end, the hissing. It was a little cat-like. But the butt, when he was getting wrestled on the ground,

he was doing his impression of a pig it was like okay do you remember yeah right right but that because his dad does the that that sound right that's what Ron does

so then Nog chooses a more oinky piggy sound from for his stressed out sort of like yes the bursts of it and then he turns into the cat at the very end so I was very amused interesting you had a farm animal I had a farm animal experience

when I was watching this scene Yes, I loved it. Okay, dokey. Yeah. Okay. Okay. E.I. E.I. E.I. Oki-Docke-O. Okay.

We go to Ops next. And they find a suitable planet, basically. That's this short little scene. They find this planet Draylon 2. It'll make a perfect home. It's M-class planet, uninhabited, stable orbit, temperate climate, low surface radiation. Great, great home.

Seems like a problem solved. We go to the gas quarters next. Screen ladies are all gathered together when the doorbell rings. Cisco and his team arrive. Hanik tells Cisco not to feel uncomfortable around all the women. So she has another reference to this gender swap here. She's like, don't feel nervous around all of us women. Little man, little lad.

which I thought was great. But he says they found a suitable place and she says, oh, that wasn't necessary because they've already found a great place. They found Katana. It's on the planet of sorrow. It's Bejo. Planet of sorrow.

Which it was. It's been occupied. It's been destroyed. It's gone through tumult. It is a planet. It's what their prophecies kind of describe. It's exactly their spiritual prophets. as he's described this.

Have they talked about the length of the occupation before this episode? Yes, they have. They have said it's 50 years because that's the first time I thought I heard it was this episode. Interesting. We also talk about, don't they give a number of how many people are on the station that live on this station? They say 7,000. Yeah.

I've never even, did they even talk about that before this episode? I don't think so. Where did they keep all those people? I have no idea. I saw about maybe 50. Yeah. Actors housing. Topps 50.

I guess the other 7,950 people didn't come to Korax, I suppose. Or they keep counting more and over and over again. Yes, it could be. He's a big presence. He's a big presence. Very talkative. We go to space next. I love this wraparound shot of the station because it used kind of a top-down look of the station

during this station log. And then as it dropped down, it revealed all of these hundreds of screen ships. lingering, you know, just kind of hanging out. So you realize the magnitude of this of this pilgrimage that's been made. Yeah, there's so many, they can't even dock, right? They're just kind of hanging out.

Which was, I mean, it's absolutely right for the show, but my mind went to, these were an occupied people? Where did they get all these ships? Yeah. They seem to be doing pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's kind of shocking because if you think about if the

Dominion did come in there and wipe out the rulers, their slave masters. You would think that they would also wipe out the slaves as well. You know what I'm saying? Or enslave the slaves. Or enslave the slaves, exactly. Now, you're our slaves, because you used to work for these guys. Now we've taken them out. We're the new masters.

And instead, the Dominion said, here, take all the T-Rogane alien ships and have fun. You know, I don't know. It's a little weird to think about it. I think they set aside, I think the Scrians were very smart. They're very frugal people. They set aside all the money that they weren't using on face cream to build these ships. Clearly, clearly. So they do have money to gamble.

They do. They could have. They do. And yet they don't do it. They, at least they could have used the pink slip to their ship, you know, as the ownership of their ship. That's right. That's right. I could have gambled with that as well.

Right. Station log does say, though, Chief O'Brien's continuing to oversee repairs to these ships. So they're beat up. All these hundreds of ships. Do we see O'Brien at all this episode? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Not bad, but he's probably mostly in Ireland. He's in Ireland at this time. He's in Ireland making a movie. He's making a movie similar. But we do see. We do see it. Yeah. Yeah.

This is where we hear that a minister. Mr. Rosan and Vedic Sarad have arrived. Thank God. Finally. They're going to deliver the official response to this. And again, at this point, I've been looking at every female thinking, where's Kitty? Is Kitty in this group of? No.

Is that Robin Curtis? Not Kitty. Who's that? Is that Robin Curtis? Yes. I was looking for Robin and Kitty. And finally, Kitty comes into this. And eventually you end up with Waldo.

Yeah. Okay, we're on the promenade, and Kira's going to meet Minister Rosan and Vedic Sarad, and Varani catches her, says that he's sorry, but they both know that the provisional government is going to refuse the screen's request. He feels really bad about this. So we go into the commander's office, and I wrote down, kitty, on my notes. Oh, my God. There she is.

Finally, we've been waiting. Yeah, I literally, when this scene happened, I just, in my, In my mind, I heard, I heard that happen like that. And light came down and shun upon me and everything and everything was good. And I was so excited to see Kitty there. Kitty looked amazing. Oh, my God, you look like a beauty queen. What is going on?

The Bajoran beauty pageant. It was so nice. And it started running. Down boys. I started on your close. I know this is your wife. We are allowed to praise her. Yes, you are.

Didn't you think that my hairdo going up like? that in a less extreme version of the Screean ladies was a little weird. No! I didn't catch that. Why is my hair also going straight? You had a similar kind of strong. It wasn't as extreme, but yeah. Okay, okay. The Screean women, they have a big piece of toast. Yours was a little bit of pita bread or bag. I mean, it wasn't as big. It was, it was very subtle. I thought. I liked it. You looked great. I think you're being overly critical. Thank you. That's it. did the right thing by starting on a close-up of you started on close-up and pulled back slowly as you

as you revealed your your information as i talked and talked and talked and you have a big and it is a valid argument forget that that this woman is sitting next to me yes it's an incredibly valid argument you cannot have three million people show up on the planet just can't and you're especially when your own planet is starving especially and they i didn't know this especially since they say they've got an ongoing famine going on. There isn't enough food to feed everybody. Now, granted, they have a counter-argument, which is also very valid. And that's what I loved about this particular section of the show.

Both arguments are very strong. It's hard to make a decision. I am a fan of the counter-argument, which is Bejor is in the middle of rebuilding. They have to rebuild. This is $3 million. You know that show where they send the couple to Disney? Disneyland for the weekend and they bring 400 people to remodel the house within a weekend. Like they show that, yeah, what's it? Extreme home makeover. This is extreme planet makeover.

Three million people to come fix everything. I think that's the perfect solution, but they didn't. Well, also, if we look at it with contemporary eyes, what helps our economy more than anybody else are immigrants. Yes. Yes, that's true. The immigrants are the ones willing to do the dirty work, the work that no one else wants to do. And the Bajorna, that's absolutely true, but the Bajorna argument that, yes, that's all possible, but what if opposite happened? What if? And that's her whole speech. What if, what if? What if the opposite happens? Well, then send them to Draylon to then. You know what I'm saying? So they can go to Draylon. Yeah, hard to un-ring that bell, but once you let him on the planet. On the planet? But then again, these screens, they're farmers. They know how to, you know, create something out of nothing. Well, she makes that argument at the very end of the show, which is a very, solid argument but kitty's argument in the scene is look we took this seriously we argued about there were heated arguments this was not an easy right decision to come to but we have made a decision that that we're not going to allow you guys here because we've got to fix ourselves first and if anything goes wrong if there's a another crop failure a long winter any kind of thing

that that we would all be screwed so i i totally you convinced me kitty your performance and the words written for you i was just so mesmerized with kitty i don't even know what she said i was just staring i was like oh you were beautiful you guys had to lay off this it was an okay performance and an okay part just thank you you got both armin and kitty are so good at being critical of themselves and their performances i just i want you to both just relax let go and say it was great that we are we are really excited with seeing you on the show and your performance and i'm sure because we know and love you that has something to do with it i i'm not going to deny that i but i was excited because i know and love you i was excited to see i didn't know

what to expect i've never seen kitty action for my life so this to me is huge other than when we did in a cruise you did a little thing on stage but that's not you know that's not this well i have to tell you i've seen a lot of her work and i've never really and it's been years and years and years since i've seen this episode okay i was actually quite astounded not that i'm shocked but but pleased that she was so radically different yes this character that you created is very different than the kitty that I know I agree and and it's a tribute to your acting ability that you could create this character thank you that's it saying thank you yeah I mean you went all in you you took a certain perspective a certain type of you decided this character is going to be like

this this is the cadence the tempo how this person's going to speak and and I believed you were a minister You know, I believe that you had this position. And I will venture to say, and you can correct me, please, you had the extra onus that no other guest star on the show probably has ever had or not that you had to do as good of work as you did because everybody knew you. Yeah. Everybody knew you.

And you couldn't let the show down. I have to say, Avery was so kind that day. and he was kind to me every time he saw me ever after that. Wow. That's awesome. And I'm going to say, yeah, Kitty, you had more pressure on you than any other guest star up to this point on D-Space 9 because you and Armin are connected, right? Like everyone's expecting like, oh, well, then she's going to do this then, right?

So everyone's watching you. And I think you hit it out of the park. So you should be really, really proud of yourself. But you guys know what it is to be a guest star. It's always like, you come on, you walk in. You have to carry whatever you have to carry, and sometimes you have to carry a lot of the show, and then you get off.

Yeah, yeah, yep. But you had the extra onus. This is what Garrett and I and Robbie were saying, is that, you know, everybody else can walk away. They can be happy or unhappy about their performance. Yeah, I have to go back. But you have to go back after the episode is over and face these people again and again and again.

The only thing I wanted is I wanted her to make herself right and be willing to be unlikable, and that's what I thought I succeeded. You did. Yes, you did. You did. Absolutely. Well, great scene. They get denied.

Screens are denied. And again, it was not Robin Curtis. It was Robert Curtis Brown. He was fabulous as well. He's really good. He's really good. I wonder if they sent him any Vedic samples so that he, because I thought he replicated it if the other Vedic sit down.

Agreed. I agree. And I doubt they did, knowing that my experience. They might have. In TNG, when Max told me this, that when he started playing Ferengi, that he got tapes of my performance to tell him how to do Ferengi. So they might have sent Vedic tapes. Also, he's one of those guys who would have gone and found...

He would have asked, or gone to look. Yeah, found it. Also, he's just a really nice guy to spend the day with on a set. Agreed. Totally agreed. He's great. I also think Robin Curtis would have been a nice person to spend a day on the set as well. I think she's a nice person. She played Sarat as well. So, you know, okay.

Robin Curtis Robin and I. You add Brown on there. Robin Curtis Brown, boy. Robin and I spent a huge amount of time in audition rooms together for years, particularly commercials because we both did so many commercials. Yeah. And you're both tall women. Right.

There was like 15 of us that we would see each other over and over and over again. Yeah. Yeah. She just wanted to. Yeah. So she does belong in this conversation. He really does. She does.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. We go to the replomat. There's a long line of Screans waiting for the replimat. Jake appears. Tumach's there. Jake is really nice to Tumach.

But Tumach's angry. Calls Nog an idiot. Says he doesn't like it here. And Jake just continues to be nice through all of this. Yeah. He stands up for his friend, though. He does. He stands up.

says, you know, once you get to know him, he's better than you think he is. He does stand up or not. He's not such a bad guy. He's a genuine hero. But Sorok did a beautiful job in this scene, where he could have gotten combative, but he wasn't. Yeah. He's so good. Yeah. Was it, was it cool for you to watch young Sorok in this, when you were watching this kid, just to see him and, you know, you basically, you've seen him grow up. We've watched him grow up. Yeah. Yeah. And his mom and yeah. Yeah. And for his sister. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But to be a child actor and hold your own, and he has definitely held his own in this show. And Robbie and I have always commented on how impressed we are with Sirak and his acting abilities and his ability to not be overwhelmed being in the big league.

You know, because sometimes kids can get a little freaked out by that. He's just so simple and honest. He's just, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's much, I'll be honest. He's much better than I expected.

I didn't know. We didn't. I'd never seen the show. I expected him to be a typical kid character that threw in a couple of lines here and there and was around now and then but he really can hold a scene together and this is a great example of it

he comes into a scene where there could be a lot of conflict and a lot of intimidation with probably an older actor being very aggressive and he didn't let it throw him at all. No. He was great. Yeah, so Jake does tell him though that his dad mentioned that they might be going to draylon too soon, that they found a place

and Tumuk says, would you want to live on Draylon 2? Jake's, no, I don't think so. And he goes, neither do I. So it does give through Jake a little bit of the point of view of, oh, you're sending us off to Draylon 2, this place nobody else wants to live either. So Jake's kind of the audience's eyes into their experience here a little bit. Okay, so the next scene is in guest quarters again. Hanik is there.

She's kind of wound up as the doorbell rings and Kira arrives. Hanik is really mad. She says that Kira was just pretending to be her friend. And Kira says, no, no, she really was sincere. But she does agree with the Bajoran government. And she hopes they still can be friends. And Hanik says, nope, don't forgive you. And then Cisco calls and lets them know,

Tumach has stolen a ship and is headed for Bayjor. stolen a shuttle so sad sort of friendship scene you see that Kira's really sincere in this scene she really sees their their side of things yeah just to correct you Robbie I don't

think he stole a shuttle or runabout he stole a screen ship is what happened I think so yeah I think so yeah because the member the screen ship has issues with their proportion and their water drive

that's important clearly it was a ship that chief O'Brien was not able to to repair is what i'm yep yep absolutely no that's important that's an important correction absolutely one thing about this scene at the very end though that bothered me is cisco calls with this urgent message get to ops immediately he's stolen he's taken a ship and headed for bejor and the women just look at each other and stare and they hold on these lingering close-ups there's no urgency yeah i was like i almost wanted like a smash cut you know boom yes yes like why are you

Yes. It didn't really fit the scene. It didn't fit the, what was happening at all. Yeah, it feels like the energy of Cisco's call is like, let's go. Call to action. And instead of going to action, they just doop-de-do. Yeah, yeah. Hey, Mr. Producer, is it possible that they just didn't have enough footage?

So, I mean, they didn't have enough pages. So they stretched stuff out this way because it just feels like every, every single transition is too long. Yes. Yeah. Yes, but, yes, but in those moments at the end of this scene with this call to action, I would have found those three, four seconds somewhere else. I would have tightened this and said, stay on another close-up for two seconds and two more seconds,

and then you find the time. You sort of slide your edit to make sure that you're finding the right moments for the right tone, and this felt off-tone to me. Yeah. So one of the my problems with this episode is I never get the real sense it's a mother and son. Yes, I'm told it's a mother and son. But things like this where they don't rush off her son's in trouble. I just never got the feeling that I'm told it's mother and son,

but I don't get any sense that they're mother and son. They just look like two guest stars working together on a set that they never been on both. Yeah. I mean, you do get it coming up when she's begging him. Yes. Yes. But it hasn't been earned. By then it's too late. Yeah. And I want to, you know, we'll talk about a missing scene. I would like to see a scene between the two of them where mom is the leader of the family is telling her son, you know, you need to compromise. You need to do this. That would have been very helpful for understanding the relationship between the two. Yeah, it would have been a good setup for her. concern later on when he's made this choice.

Or we want to get into this country. Why are you causing fights with the kids in the neighborhood, you know? Yeah. Well, we go to ops where a lot of stuff happens in this scene. I'll run through it a quick. Tumach and his friends took the ship. In the chaos, we learn of all of these millions of Skrians, they were able to sneak out of there.

He's not responding to any calls. We learn there's a radiation leak. in his warp drive. Bajoran interceptors show up, and they're ready to shoot. They're in restricted space, but Kira and Cisco beg them to stand down. They call this general who gave the orders and ask him to, you know, tell his guys, don't fire on the ship, but Tumach ends up firing on the Bajorans, hiring some phasers. The Bajorans are even ready to retreat at this moment.

Hanik is begging him to stop. in all of this and when they fire this phaser shot the the shuttle or their ship explodes and o'brien says the phaser may have ignited this explosion and hanique is in shock so it's a it's a really long sequence but that's the highlights as long as messy as well i felt when i was watching it you know just i don't know it didn't i felt like i don't understand why this is in the show if the thrust of this of the of the episode is about two cultures both who should accept each other can't and and it's a matter of land uh and and invasion and and and looking for the promised land all of that seems to me a very good thing to talk about but this

i went why is this here and why why are we getting it in the last 10 minutes of the show why is he even going there like what is this what is to what end to what is he going to fly to because Well, because, you know, the earlier scene, he doesn't want to go to Drelon, too. He said, he told that. So why go to Bejord? Go somewhere else? But, Armand, you are right. I mean, this scene is almost unnecessary.

It's like, what is this here for? Yeah, it's very... It feels like it's only there because in the Star Trek format Bible, it says there's got to be an action sequence and act five of every episode. But you don't see any action. You just hear about it. You hear exactly. And you see a little, like a radar display of the ships. That's it.

Ping. Yeah, that's it. Off of this underwhelming action sequence, we go to an airlock sequence scene that is one of my favorite scenes in the episode. The Skria are all leaving. There is another long pan shot that brings us in, but I didn't mind this one too much. Kira goes to say goodbye to Hanik and wishes her luck on Drelaan 2. And I wrote down, Hanik has a mic drop moment. She basically

A mic drop moment She does She's like She lays it all out there Bam boom and walks away But she says You know Maybe the screen could have been helpful to you guys

We're farmers We could have helped With this famine you're going through And you guys are just frightened And paranoid from the Cardassian You know Issues you have You're triggered by all this

And I pity you basically Is what she says I feel sorry for you guys And Kira is speechless. She doesn't say a word. And Honek walks away, the door shut, mic drop, bam. I love this scene. I think for Henniek, it should have been not a mic drop, but a hairdrop sequel.

She just pulls out the things that the hair just falls down and she walks out. Hair drop, see ya. Or scaly skin drop, see ya, whatever it is. And she does it with such dignity. You know, she's just so regal. So she's gone from being farmer to. It's right. being the leader of her people.

Oh, totally. The chosen one. And remember, under all of that, the actress is in pain. Horrible. Yeah, she's the allergic reaction to the makeup. She's totally, yeah. See, that's even more impressive what she was able to pull off.

Now that I know that she was in such, you know, a position of uncomfortability. That's the best way to put it, right? You shouldn't go to work as an actor and feel uncomfortable because of your wardrobe, because of your makeup. But it happens, and look at that. She pulled it off. Good job.

And did a very, very good job. Absolutely. And it's a lovely scene between the two of them. I agree. I really love that scene a great deal. Yeah, me too. Yeah. And that's how our episode ends.

Yay. Yay. Mike drop. Hair drop. What about a theme or lesson that you can get out of this episode? Neil, we'll start with you. My theme is that fear and paranoia will blind you to potential friends and allies. Actually, very good.

I think that last scene to me brought it all together in a way that Hanik's speech and her thoughts and ideas, that perspective was the theme, that you've missed this opportunity. We could have been good friends. Personally, Kira, you and me, we could have been good friends. We could have been good friends as a species. and you're too afraid. Yeah. Yeah.

Armine. For me, I wrote, unfamiliarity breeds contempt and distrust. Foreign cultures need time to grow accustomed to each other. Okay. I like that. Kitty, do you have a lesson for that?

What it left me with is how, here we are 30 years later, and how sad I find it, that this is exactly the place the world is now. Yeah. That's what it left me with. I mean, I realize that's not about the episode, but it is about the episode in today's world.

Yeah. Most definitely. For me, I think the lesson is that as human beings, we need to constantly be vigilant of ourselves in terms of our thinking when it comes to other races and people of other backgrounds. Because even for myself being a minority, minority in the U.S., there are times that I find, or there are times that Megan will point out

that I'm not exactly being very, you know, on the up and up myself. So we always have to be vigilant and try to keep the racist out of our lives, you know, out of our minds. You have one bad interaction in public with somebody of a specific race, and you immediately start, your mind starts making all these little connections saying, that must be how all of them are. And that's where racism begins. And it doesn't even have to be racism. It can be nationalization. It can be religion.

It can be political parties. I mean, if we could just go back to the time when Republicans and Democrats listen to each other, I think our lives would be significantly better. One of the things I'm quite positive of is that racism and prejudice breaks down the moment people break bread. Yeah. When different sides of a question, when those people sit down and have a meal together and start conversing with each other, that's when the barriers begin to dissolve. Yeah. That's a very, very valid point, Armand, when I was at UCLA, which is where Bill went,

the guest star that played Verona. He was UCLA. I went. And you went as well. We all went to UCLA. And I had season tickets to UCLA football. There's a connection. There's a connection. That's what the school wants to hear.

When I was there, Amman, I don't know if the program was happening then, but UCLA had a thing called Dinner with Twelve Strangers. Really? Yes, if you signed up for it, you'd be there with a couple of other students, a couple of faculty people, a couple of alumni, and it was amazing. Oh, wow. Fantastic. All different walks of life, all different races.

And we just sat down at that dinner and just started talking. And you're right. You break bread with somebody. Really hard to be racist if you had a meal and talk to people. We were at a dinner at Star Trek Long Island last weekend and we're at a table with 10 other people. Probably. And Armin asked every single one of them what they did for a living and we heard about it and the conversation happened. And they go, this is really important.

And we were like, no, it's much more interesting to hear about what you do. Yeah. We already know what we do. We want to hear what you do. And there was a huge spread of what people did. It was fascinating. Yeah. Wow.

Great way to have a dinner. like that yeah yeah be curious about other people that's that would have helped this episode would have helped you know the characters right if they had been more curious about each other instead of judgmental we do if jake and nog had brought andrew's character some food they saw them scrambling for food yes maybe if they had brought food over to him or showed him how to use the replicators of yeah all this free food yeah um maybe that would have changed the ending yeah I like that. There is a Patreon poll theme moral of this episode voted on by our Patreon patrons,

submitted by James Amy. And that lesson is don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Very good. I like it. Good thought. Very good thought. Yeah. Well, great.

Well, thank you for Kitty for joining us for this recap and discussion of an amazing episode and learning a little more about your life. And I know. It's an amazing life. She has an amazing life. I want to ask Kitty, how did you find the experience of being on this podcast with the boys? Well, A, you know how much I love all three of you. I mean, he wins in the horse race, but I love you guys.

So it was really fun to hang out. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you. Have you seen me smile this many times? No, I know. It's a lot of smiling. It's a lot of smiling. It seems like, seems good.

Thank you to everyone for tuning into this episode and join us next time when we'll be recapping, discussing the episode, Rivals. Rivals. For all of our Patreon, patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. We're going to have a little more of Kitty joining us with that, so we're so excited. Yay. And for everyone else. That's my chop liver. And Armin, of course.

Of course, Armin. See you. Bye. Bye, everybody. I don't know. You know, I'm sorry, Thank you.