The Delta Flyers - Second Sight

Episode Date: June 25, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode, Second Sight, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell. Second Sight: On the fourth anniversary of his wife’s death, Sisko takes a melancholy late-night stroll along the Promenade.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Nicole Anne Toma, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Rob Traverse, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Sam Mikelic, & Thomas IrvinOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Steven Lugo, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Timothy McMichens, & Kevin HarlowAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Ann Harding,Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carol Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Rob Johnson, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, John Richardson, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Clark Ochikubo, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Mars DeVore, Robert Allen Stiffler, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Preston Meyer, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Constance, Loretta Reyes, Kyle Freund, Cassandra Girard, Francesca Garibaldi, Andrea Wilson, Carol Ramsey, Willow Whitcomb, Jadzia Mehari, Mo, Leslie Ford, & Travis CamposThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Dax, Quark, Tom, and Harry. Your host today are my fellow Trek actors, Robert Duncan McNeil, and Terry Farrell. Yay! The trio is together again. I'm so excited. Okay. So, for the complete and exciting. an amazing version of this podcast, I would suggest all of you go to patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today.

Good day to you, sir. Good day to you, madam. How are you? Very good. Oh, that's very formal of you. It is. It's wonderful, darling. Is it wonderful?

Let's say it. I'm so happy to see you again. I've missed you so much. We've missed you too. Oh, golly. And I got to see Jerry Ryan, which just brought you guys closer to me. You told us about that. Yes.

She's an angel. Tell us how that happened. Tell us how that happened. Tell us about the dinner with Jerry. That sounds great. Well, she said something about meeting for din some. And I'm like, well, I don't know a lot of places, but my favorite place is called vinaigrette.

And I know you'll love it because it's fabulous salads and all of that. I didn't know her husband was a chef. Yeah. So then when we're going to order, she says, well, I hope there's enough acid in the frisé salad. And I'm thinking, oh, God, I hope I brought her the right thing. yeah her husband's a major chef but not just so cool he's not just like some random chef he's like top you know in the top 10 in the country they met at laanjerie which is one of my favorite favorite restaurants in los angeles way back in the day uh terry i wish you had a chance to go to her restaurant with with her

husband her chef husband orderlon was the name of it so he left laurentree and it was our restaurant together? Yes. And it was really, really good food. Robbie, where was that? Beverly or third? Beverly or third? That area. Yeah. Wow. I had no idea. Well, she invited me to her house for dinner. So I'm like, oh, I'm there. Oh, that'll be a good meal. Yeah. For sure. Well, anyway, so you guys ate it vinaigrette and you, what did you guys talk about? Girl stuff? I told her about me being a part of this and she sends you guys love. And did you say that she loved me more than Robbie? hopefully she would never she's not that kind of person oh my gosh she loves me better than the both of you probably probably that's probably true we'll go with that oh my goodness but yeah so that was

super fun i felt closer to you guys just seeing her too and it was just so much fun to have somebody visiting santa fe and getting to hang out it was really really cool what was she doing out yeah she was doing an episode of dark skies dark that wait just like it's like reboot of the old... Yeah, I was going to say... No, it's on... What is it on? No, but Terry, that's a show

that was filmed a long time a while ago, right, Robbie? Yeah, there was a show called Dark Skies. It's Robert Redford. Oh, no, this is something different, Robbie. Dark Skies that Robbie and I are talking about

was a science fiction show that was filmed in... Oh, no, this is about the Southwest. Oh, this is totally... It's based on a book. Yeah. And... Or is it R.R.R. Martin?

George R.R. Martin? Thank you. Yes. He and Robert Redford are the executive producers, although she told me, she goes, well, Bob is more,

I'm like, Bob. She calls Robert Redford, Bob. Yes, isn't that cool? It's so funny. It's like when I say William Shatner,

I call him Bill, and Max is like, his name is William. And I'm like, Max, I call him Bill. You know, Picardo is going to be very jealous

for he hears about this. He's like, what? There's another Bob. I'm the only Bob. life just me oh my god you sound just like him thank you i tried you're so good at that stuff oh my gosh well good you should because you're good at it um so yes they she they have this must be the third season her and bob redford i love this for her she's so talented um she did the second season

and I only watched a couple episodes but it was weird because I had just moved here and she was filming here if I'd known I would have reached out right when I first moved here but I only found out like after I'd been here a few months and then she was finished filming and it was like no we could have had all that time together but you did have one meal with her

which was good enough which is really good And it's amazing to me how much just going back to L.A. and seeing friends, you know, Billingsley, John Billingsley, from Enterprise. We went to the Magic Castle because of Bonnie. Gordon, she works there. And so she invited us. And Dominic was there. We just had such a blast. She sings there. She is so talented, Bonnie. Super talented. She is. gorgeous inside and out. Robbie had her on Chuck as a general, as a general. Was she a general? What was she? Benita, Frederici.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And who's the actress I told you about that I'm going to work with? Sarah Tomko, I think, yeah, from Resident Alien you're going to work with. You're doing a movie. Yes. We're doing movie together.

We're co-starring. I love that. I love when worlds come together. Yeah, me too. I'm so excited. Were you filming that? In the Catskills in New York in September. It's my first job in 20 years.

I am like blown away. I'm so excited. I know. I know. I want to come visit you on the set. Yeah. Come visit me on the set. Catskills.

I know. The director rented out a whole house. He's hiring a chef. We're all staying in the house. It's all basically shot in, well, it's shot in one room except for a couple of exteriors. We're in the one room, the whole movie. You would have Sarah Tomko Yeah

Wow I'm really excited I think the two of us I haven't met her yet But I think you get along great Really? Yeah Robbie you and I should just show up

And we talk talk talk What you just shut up Yeah Robbie and I should show up in surprise Sarah Tomko and you Right That would be funny You guys can go camping Yes

We'll probably go camping together In the cat skills Okay In the backyard Where we're filming Yeah do you guys remember a book when you were a kid uh it was a book about a kid that lived in new york city that ran away from home to the cat skills and he lived in this hollowed out tree that was that

kind of was burned from anyway he hollowed out a tree he lived inside there he made acorn pancakes a hawk became his friend and it would help hunt things for him like fish don't remember this did that get through childhood it did and it made me go to the cats skills i've never heard of it either. Well, the minute you said you're filming the cat skills, I've been wanting to go to the cat skills since I was five years old or six years old. Well, if that gives you a reason to go, come. And I'm sure I'm going to try to get there ahead of time, even if I have to say someplace different, just to get in the right mindset and get real peaceful. Yeah, because it's a lot of work in 10 days. Yeah, it sounds like when you talked about it before, it sounds like you and Sarah have 99% of the words and the whole thing.

So go to the cat skills early, do yoga, you know, every day, like a yoga bird. What if you did a yoga retreat for four days before the thing? It'd be amazing. If you did all that, then went right into the film. I like you. I need you to have, but you need to manage it for me. I'm going to go online. I'm going to go on the interwebs and I'm going to start looking for yoga retreats

and the Catskill Mountains that are, you know, already there. Yes. Yeah. That sounds great. I would totally join you for that. Oh, yay. Would you be up for that, Robbie? That sounds like a blast.

I would love to do that. Wouldn't that be good? I'll bring my camp. What about your wives? Yes. Yes. Bring everybody. bring them all yeah i love the idea of yoga before like doing some yoga i feel like we should

have done that on star trek before we started every day if we'd all just like had a little yoga session and just calm down bonded with each other all the castes should have gone on an ayahuasca retreat okay stop because i would be all in i would be all if you hold my bar We could all go on a sweat lodge. But so we could look at the cat skills as being our trust session. We could look at the cat skills as that. Okay. You know what's funny?

In the NFL in sports ball, we'll talk about a little bit about this. People make fun of Aaron Rogers going on ayahuasca retreat. And I think, I think, well, I wonder which one he goes to. I'd like to check it out. That's my thinking. But everyone else is kind of like laughing at it. Like, look at him doing that, you know, foo-foo Hollywood stuff. Well, he wins some games.

Maybe it worked. Maybe it worked. I'm all for anything that's going to expand your mind. We've digressed like no other intro ever. We've got a few birthdays to mention. We have Carl Murphy, June 18th. Happy birthday, Carl. Happy birthday, Carl. Happy birthday, Carl. Stephanie Baker, Stephanie Baker from Seattle. Her birthday is June 24th. Happy birthday to Stephanie. Happy birthday, Stephanie.

Also, we have Cassandra Gerard, whose birthday is also on June 24th, the birthday of Stephanie Baker from Seattle. Happy birthday, Cassandra, Gerard. Happy birthday, Cassandra. Happy birthday, Cassandra. James, tomorrow, your birthday's on June 25th. Happy birthday, James. Happy birthday, Jimmy. Happy birthday, Jimmy.

Another birthday is Anne Harding. Her birthday is June 27th. Happy birthday, Ann. Happy birthday, Ann. Happy birthday, Ann. And we have Robert Allen Stifler, whose birthday is on June 30th. Happy birthday, Robert. Happy birthday, Robert, nice name.

Yeah, happy birthday. Robert Allen Stifler. Yay, happy birthday, Jessica B. July 1st. Wow, happy birthday. Happy birthday, Jessica. Happy birthday, Jessica. And our last birthday is Andrea Wilson on July 2nd. Happy birthday, Andrea.

Happy birthday, Andrea. Happy birthday, Andrea. Yeah, look at all those birthdays. That's the most birthdays we've ever had on an episode. We're going to start this recap with our poetry synopsis. I'll start with mine, my Limerick. Here we go. A terraformer arrives on the scene.

He's got a huge amount of. self-esteem. Cisco loves the lady in red, but she's just in Nadell's head. Better make sure you know when it's only a dream. Ooh, yeah.

Badoom, boom, boom, boom, that was freaking outstanding. Yeah, see? Wow. Really, that was gold. Thank you. Yeah, Robbie. Really gold.

That was freaking genius. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Wonderful. Can I embarrass myself? Because I love, I love Garrett giving us a giggle at the end. Let's hear yours. Go.

It's short for me. Breathtaking attraction will not bring Cisco satisfaction. A death for a life, say a text, sacrifice for his wife. Nice. Oh, that was good, too. Even though it was short. It was really good. Sometimes the shorter captures that essence even more.

But I'm so blown away by yours. Wow. Oh, thank you. Yeah, super good. He's had some good ones over the years. Here we go. Pressure's on for the high cue. Here we go.

My haiku for second sight. Cisco, meet Fenna, professor full of himself. Freedom for Nadell. That's it. Nice. We had good poems for this episode. Oh, you're very kind. No, they're really.

I wanted to make mine longer. They don't have to be longer. Yours was really good. How about this? This is where I started. Infactuation feels like magic until his elusive nature vanished. And then I'm like, what? A bright star into making a life sacrifice for the taking.

It's just so much fun to play with these birds. Yeah, absolutely. And I really appreciate you guys extending it so that I'm, using my brain in another way. But this show was kind of difficult for me. I didn't realize I was so heavy in it. Yeah. This was difficult for me.

It wasn't a clear moral or it was just, but I like the drive of it. I like not knowing what she was about. Definitely that mystery was compelling. Wasn't it? Yeah, it was compelling for sure. Most of them you could see right through. Oh, here it is. I know where this is going.

Yeah, I didn't know. I had no idea. Let's go through our guest stars. Guest stars, we have Sally Elise Richardson as Fenna slash Nadell, Richard Kiley, Richard Kiley as Gideon Seatic, co-star. Let me stop you right there. Let me stop you right there, Richard Kiley. Oh, my God.

You love him, yes? I didn't know he was in this episode. Richard Kiley is most known for Man of LaMancho. He was the original Don Quixotean Man of LaMancho. He sang the song, Impossible Dream, that is iconic. And as a young musical theater performer, I saw a production of Man of La Mancha

and became obsessed with it and the fact that Richard Kylie originated that role. It was just such an inspiring creative story, the Don Quixote story for creative people is such a powerful, you know, lesson, I guess, in following your dreams and believing in your dreams in spite of all the odds against you.

I just love, Richard Kylie. He was so wonderful in this episode. And what a history of theater work, film and television work, a legend. He's really amazing. Yeah, I have to say, well, getting to work with him. I too was a giant fan of his. And he was a joy. Joy. And you can see in this episode how effortlessly he plays this very gargarius character. He's, When he has that moment where it shifts and you see who he really is. Yeah. When he says she loves me and I don't know why that sort of moment. Yeah. And goes on to save her life. But working with him, he was just spot on every time.

He was kind. He was fun to be around. And gratefully, I got to play that I was as tickled. as I was to get to work with him. Yeah. I felt grateful for that because when I saw a Nas character being annoyed with him or irritated. Be nicer to older people. And you know what's funny is you could have cast, there could have been another actor in that

role that leaned into the narcissism and this, you know, the big ego and all. And I would have agreed with Kira. I would have been like, this guy's annoying. But Richard Kiley is so. charming. Yes. Just exudes positivity. Like he was having so much fun getting to do this role and be on. I think he was. I think it was too. You could feel it. Yeah. Because he's starring in it. Yeah. So that's, I think it's really great when, um, we have actors with such gravitas that get to come on and do something that they're enjoying doing. And they're so excited to have it be

about them. Yeah. Let's talk about Sally. Elise Richardson. She was in the dawn of her career. I think D-Space 9 was maybe her third or fourth year into professional acting. So this was very early in her career. She like you, Robbie, she ended up sort of, she became a series regular on Eureka, the show Eureka, which we have friends on that show. And it was there that they let her cut her teeth and direct a couple of episodes. So she basically is the female version of you. She stopped acting after that pretty much. and went on to start directing. Now, so, yeah, so some of her credits from directing

include Chicago Med, Luke Cage, Black Lightning, The Punisher, American Gods, Altered Carbon. So she's done some sci-fi stuff as well. She's received the NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Directing in a Drama series for Luke Cage. She also won a Black Real Award for Outstanding directing in a comedy series for Blackish. So she, like Robbie, turned into a successful director.

She's very successful, yeah. Have you met her, Robbie? Have you bumped into her anywhere or? I have, I think, yes. I have met her in some function or, you know, crossing paths. Sure. Yes, as in the directing side of things for sure. Right, right.

Yeah. Yeah. So good, good on her. And I heard when one time from a producer friend of mine that it worked with her on Eureka that said she is just the sweetest, loveliest person. Oh. And so. Don't you love to hear those stories?

Yeah. She really was. And she, oh my gosh, just talk about the complete polar opposite of the two characters she played. Because when she was with Avery, she was so dreamy. And like you go, oh, how couldn't he fall in love with her? Yeah, she's gorgeous. She's perfect. Just, oh. And she, kind and, you know, that kindness and fun to be around. it just makes all the difference in the world working with someone. Yeah, for sure. We also have a co-star, Mark Erickson. He was on the shuttle, I think.

There was a couple of guys that spoke on the... Like the captain of the shuttle. Prometheus. Piercele is the name, so I don't know other than that. Okay. Teleplay by Mark Gerard O'Connell. Listen to this. Look at the spelling of that, Robbie.

I could change my spelling of my name. It's G-E-H-R-E-D, G. Garrett, Garrett, yeah. Mark Garrett O'Connell. But then you wouldn't be Garrett. You wouldn't be my Gawa. I mean, you're Garrett, your Gareth then. Is it a Gawa? Okay. Mark Giro O'Connell and Stephen, Ira, Stephen Baer as well, it's so funny. My, my iPhone auto-corrected Ira from Ira Stephen Bear to ORA, A-U-R-A. We should call him that if he's at a yoga retreat. Hey, ORA, come, come here. I don't think he's coming to a yoga retreat with us. And Robert, and Robert Hewitt Wolf.

Oh, love him. Yes, we love his writing. The story is by Mark Garrett O'Connell. And this is directed by none other than Alex Singer. This is his first episode of DS9 that he ever directed. Robbie, did he go credited by Alex Singer on our show and Alexander Singer on DS9? Or was Alexander on Voyager? Because I don't remember that.

He was Alexander credit-wise, but he went by Alex. By Alex for us. I love Alex Singer. Yeah, I think we called him Alex, too. But he, in a way, to me, I thought it ironic because Seatic is this loud sort of, you know, outgoing sort of A-type personality. And I think Alex is like that in a way as well. Like, I see there's some similarities between those two. You know, I get that.

I remember Alex Singer talking about, he was from the Bronx or something from New York. And he talked about how, because I mentioned to him. him when he direct on Voyager, I mentioned my interest in directing, and he talked about how he got into directing. Long story short, he was a classmate of Stanley Kubrick in high school. What? In the Bronx. They were both from, I think the Bronx or not Brooklyn.

I think it was the Bronx. Yeah. Yeah, Alex Singer was awesome. He was old school, directed a ton of, you know, great classic TV and film stuff. I like New Yorkers, too. Yeah. This is something different about their straightforward energy, no, no bones about it. I just really appreciate that.

It's so hard to work with directors that are afraid to hurt you or upset you. And it's like they create eggshells. Yeah. And it's too bad because, well, hopefully most of them grow out of that insecurity because I think that's where it comes from. Yeah, yeah. Oh, according to both Garrett Wang, sorry. Wong. Jesus, I'm sorry.

It's okay. I know you're reading it. I correct people now. I know you do. And then I... According to both Garrett Wong and Robert Picardo, Singer had an unusual method of directing while filming episodes of Star Trek Voyager. After a take was over, instead of verbally talking out loud to the cast about what they did wrong in a scene,

he would make a strange facial expression at them. It was his way of telling them they were being too expressive during a scene. This is a story from Bob Picardo. Like he would make a face at Bob, but he would not make the face of me. He actually said cut and he would walk up. He walked up to me and said, Garrett, I don't know what you're doing. But for some reason, you're clenching your jaw. You're clenching your jaw.

And I'm like, what? You don't need to clench your jaw. Stop it. And so he told me. He literally was just like, look, kid, I don't know, you know, you're thinking you're more masculine by clenching your jaw doing some weird. Very straightforward. There's no way to take offense to that. You just go, oh.

You know what else Alex Singer did that I loved and I still try to do, although it's different these days as a director, but Alex would not watch from the monitors. He would sit right next to the lens, whatever the main camera. Oh, yeah. I love that. I forgot about that. It's like you're right there with us. Yeah. Like watching a conductor.

Yeah. You're hanging on. He was five feet away from you. you when you're working, you know, and he was, you knew he was there. And so you felt supported and you felt more like a collaborator as opposed to someone directing and telling you what to do. Judging you from afar. Right.

We're all in. Yeah. We're all in together in making a story. So you'll do that now, Robbie? Well, you'll walk, you'll get close to it. It's a little harder because now these monitors and the village, you know, it's, it's, everything is there. But I will often, I get small monitors brought in by set.

So I keep those close to camera so that I'm. I'm not next to the lens, but I'm, you know, six, eight feet away, as close as I can be. Yeah. Right. That's a great idea. Without being distracting. Without being distracting. But you don't have that kind of personality either.

There's some people that feel to their energy is so intense that it's better that they're like the monitors. Also, like I do a lot of comedy. I've done a lot of comedy. And I know actors like hearing the feedback of laughter. And so I will be near the. camera i'll move those little monitors like alex singer did for us i'll get close and then in rehearsal and things like that or even sometimes during the first take i'll let myself laugh out loud if i

feel it because i want that i don't want to edit myself to be quiet so that i don't care i'd rather them feel like oh i'm so funny he can't help but laugh which is true i don't do a fake laugh but i want them to know like no and during rehearsal then you also as an actor know when the laugh well whether it's working yes but it also helps you just to kind of market no yeah like okay yes that's funny and i'm just it helps you focus in a different way i think it maybe it helps you relax yeah it's like oh okay it is out loud funny because some things don't read funny and then they're hilarious when you're doing them yeah it's amazing let me jump into this episode with you too let's jump right into the very first scene in cisco's quarters we have a personal

where Cisco talks about how he realizes why he's been not having really good sleep recently. It's because this is, well, the day before was the fourth anniversary of the death of his wife, Jen, Jennifer, during the masquer at Wolf 359 versus the Borg. So this was a, you know, this is a definitely emotional, emotional time for him. He's playing chess. Is he playing it? He's looking at it.

I think it was a place for him to focus. focus on. Yes. Maybe. But also, I think he makes a very important point that I think a lot of people going through bereavement and it's probably very difficult the first time you almost miss an anniversary of their passing. And when he expresses that of my heart, I've been in situations with people that have expressed like, oh my gosh, I just, I nearly forgot it. And it's, yeah yeah yeah it's just this whole guilty about it yeah this whole scene to me so jake comes in uh he can't sleep either we realize you know he's having a bad dream we realize it's because of this anniversary but i thought they played this beautifully i really love this first scene

sarac was so good in it and at the end of that scene when he says dad i love you i started thinking about the times that we hear that spoken on Voyager, which is very rare, definitely within the first couple of seasons. Robbie, did anyone say I love you to anyone else on our show? I don't think so. Did you ever say, I love you even to your wife, Bala, on the show? Yes. Yes. Season five or six. Again, not in the very beginning. Yeah. Well, and you know what, too? Avery was such a father figure to him is what you're going on? Well, yeah, he championed that. And I think also more importantly, because of the stereotype of a black man being a father, I think it was really important to, I know it was paramount of importance to him to show a very healthy relationship between a father

and a son. And he took that further by mentoring Surak in real life. And that was really important. When you're a good father, I suppose all of us can relate to this. You want to help change the landscape, change the point of view. See that not all, it's not. not all. It's a stereotype for a reason, but there are a lot of dads that are great dads that don't get credit. Yeah, we talked to Sorok about this a little bit in a bonus interview. So for Patreon subscribers, you've seen, you know, Surak talk about this. If you're not a Patreon subscriber, check it out. But we had a great conversation with Surak about his relationship with Avery and how important that was to him at that time because of what was going on for Surac. Yeah, for himself too.

yeah it's a great interview yeah so basically he talks about the dream that he had and and you know that he can't find his dad and he's looking everywhere and and basically this is this is a dream that he has because of the loss of his mother it has to be attached to that um they express how they uh Jake says he loves his dad just goes I love you too and then he says he that he misses he misses mom yeah Jake's uh Cisco says yeah me too and that that brings us to the end of that scene Yeah. Really heartfelt scene. Very heartfelt.

I love that scene. I thought their performances and the writing were wonderful. So, yeah. We go to the promenade on the upper level next. Cisco's there. It feels like it's still at night. Yeah. Isn't it a continuation pretty much of after he speaks with his son in a way?

I felt like he got up and left and sort of walking. But we never see dawn because we don't have the sun. But everything on the promenade is. There's very few people there, right? And he couldn't sleep. So we imagine that he just went from Jake going back to bed. To take the walk. Yes, to take him a walk, yeah.

Okay. Looking at the stars, and then this mysterious woman suddenly appears behind him, Sally Richardson. And they end up walking and talking. She's very flirty with him, and he's very interested in her. And in fact, did you notice in the beginning of the scene when she first steps forward? And she says, she says, beautiful, aren't they talking about the stars? I don't think I've ever seen the stars shine so brightly. And then Cisco looks out at the stars.

And while he's talking, she elevate her eyes. Oh, she totally checks. She checked everything out. She butt checks him. She butt checked him. I saw it. Robbie, I think she did a double check. She did a double check.

She looked down. She looked up and she looked back down to the booty. She's like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Oh, my. It was very nice. I hope this is worthwhile when he turns around. Exactly. Wouldn't that be funny if he turns out?

She's like, oh, my God, no, that's not what I expected you were going to look like. That would be if quirk turned around. Sorry, Armin. I know. Poor Armin. They take a little walk, very flirty. She's asking about the station. He says he's the commander.

And then he offers the show around the station, you know. And he looks away for a moment when he looks back. She's disappeared. She's vanished. And he even walks over, I think, to the rail, looks down below. Like, she's nowhere to be found. She's nowhere to be found. Like, she's almost like, I thought she was a ghost initially.

I thought this was a ghost. This is not even a human being. It's a, it's someone who died on the station and is now walking the, you know, the hallway, the promenade. It's funny. Her performance felt a little bit like spirit-like. You know what I mean? You mean her delivery of her lines, her cadence and how she spoke?

and just kind of dreamy. Yeah, she was totally dreamy. Yeah. Literally. Yeah. She was, though. She did such a great job. It was so, it was like watching magic happen, the chemistry between the two of them.

I thought this was going to lead to like something about Jennifer's death. Right. This is like a spirit of Jennifer. That's where I thought it was going at this point. I do want to mention that I want to talk about the dress. The red dress that she's wearing, it's a beautiful piece. And it's worn also in Star Trek Generations, the film. There's a character named Antonia.

Where is that? And on Voyager, Robbie, that wardrobe was used on our show. Who? Well, Leosso. Yeah. Leosa is the character. This was Barclay's girlfriend, seducer woman in that one episode, Inside Voyager episode, Inside Man. she had it on okay so she was like so that outfit's been around it's been around i even wore it to a

rap party it was extraordinary just a gorgeous gorgeous design thanks ravi i cannot get that image out of my head now you in that red dress right now is it's disturbing you're welcome okay thanks we go to ops next o'brien is down working in the pit i got to say i love the angle from the pit we've seen it only a couple of times so far, but I love when Miles is down there. Cisco comes in, Cisco's very chipper, considering he didn't sleep all night. I thought he was very, very chipper, but it must be the love. Yeah, yeah, we know what puts the pep in that step. The infatuation, those hormones are kids.

Miles is kind of grumpy, but Cisco, you know, spins it in a positive way. He's like, oh, come on, you know, you love having things to fix. Yeah. Cisco's very, very chipper. He goes to get some Choralton tea from the replicator. And then Kira seems very annoyed by this. He's like, why are you? Yeah, what's with her this episode?

She's gross. Definitely got to buck up her ass. No, he always drinks Racta gino. Why would be his tea today? Why she mad at him about it? She's not. Yeah, that's what's weird. Did you guys read mad about?

Yes, definitely. I didn't like, like, yes. It just wasn't, it wasn't generous. Well, then you two see it that way. I saw it as she was confused. It was confusion. I'm going to go with that. I'm not going to poo-poo her.

But, yeah, confusion would have led to, like, curiosity. Like, oh, that's what I thought it was. She was like, she was mad. Wow. You guys, I'm sorry. I'm going to, can we agree to disagree? I don't agree with you guys on that one. We're going to get you on board.

All right. But for now, I'm going to say that I don't. If someone came at me like that, I would be like, why are you offended? I didn't. Or what you expected. Yeah. It was a lot of feelings. Do you have something going on in your life?

Yeah. I don't know. She's like, what do you give a shit? I'm just drinking Chorolten tea. Okay. Yeah. Anyway, she's annoyed.

She says he always drinks Racta Gino. Why something else? She's, in my opinion, mad about it. He says he just wanted to try something a little different. Ask if she approves. Do you approve? Kira, is that okay with you? And then Dax call.

and says Professor Sayatik, Sayatik, yeah, Sayatech. Sayatech, yeah. Sayatech is in the science lab and invites Cisco to come down and meet him. And that's where we end on Ops. So, yeah. Okay, so we're in the science lab next. Cisco arrives and Dax fills him in that this professor is here, but he's in the flux generator, which I guess is a room off of this science lab.

I didn't recognize the science lab. It felt new to me, but I don't know if it is. Well, it's always a swing set. So, yeah, it wasn't a permanent set. I wished it was because I always like being in the science lab. Oh, it's a great set. My favorite thing, right? Yeah.

But this one was particularly beautiful because it was bigger. And then that flux, that thing was big. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't on the other side. We've never seen it before. Opening that we see is huge. Yeah, we've never seen it before. This is the first time, right? The flux generator.

It felt almost like a warp core or something. It felt a little bit like a warp core. Well, this flux capacitor, sorry, no, that's back to the future. This flux generator, the flux generator. It's easy to go there. Yeah, it's flashing. And we see Seitec is in there, and he's got like this hood on, this unit, like this outfit. It looks like kind of like a welder's outfit or like a nuclear power plant kind of, what was it?

A fancy beekeeper. Yes. Or a fancy beekeeper. Fancy beekeeper. Yeah. But Dax fills the audience in, as she talks to Cisco, that we now know he's a terraformer. Right. Sayatik.

And Dax also says, humility and common sense are not what they do. So we're starting to get a sense of who this guy is, that he's a bit of a, he's got a big ego. But Cisco knows exactly who he is. Cisco is a fan of his work, basically. He says, I'm a great admirer of your work. And they start talking about, Cicckelzar is talking about how he and Jake visited Blue Horizon on the way to D-Space 9.

And initially, I thought, what? And I started looking it up and I thought, oh, it's not Jeff Bezos's, because his is Blue Origin, right? So it's not. And I really think this was filmed before Blue Origin. No, but that's the thing. I thought that maybe that Jeff Bezos, being a Star Trek fan, took the name from this episode of DS9

and named his rock at that, but I realize it's not Horizon. It's, you know, Blue Origin. Well, thank you for catching me up. Yes. But yes, this is also the scene where we are introduced to Richard Kylie, the actor. I was thrilled to see him on screen.

And we... He's joy. Oh, he's just exudes joy. He doesn't he? Yeah. Oh, I loved him. So Blue Horizon is clearly one of his terraforming projects that... You know, you know, came off.

Everything about it was amazing. People loved it. And Seatic talks about, he says to Cisco, he goes, how did you like Da Vinci Falls? And I started thinking, oh, look at this, this foreshadowing. Because later we see Leonardo da Vinci on Voyager. So it's almost like this is like the seeds of throwing in Da Vinci to then show DaVinci later on our show. Lovely.

Yeah, our connection here. I've got to start watching your show. I know. I do. I do another podcast where we watch Terry watch. We watch Terry watching our show. Okay. I'll send you reaction shots.

Your reactions are amazing. No, no, we'll be there in the room with you. So we'll be in a chair with popcorn watching you. And then you'll be watching the screen. You know, I love these fantasies, but I need some of them to come true. We will actually. Because I want to hang out with you guys. This podcast will be called Terry Watches Voyager.

And we will review. We won't talk about the show at all. We don't talk about the show. We'll talk about Terry watching all the expressions. I will talk about the show. Yeah, you can talk about it. We're just going to talk about you. Anyway, we do learn that he's going to reignite a dead son.

This, I forget the name of it. Isn't it a star? It's called Epsilon 119. Epsilon 119. The dead sun is what it is. Dead son is going to reignite it. And it's just to think that someone could actually do something like that. that is absolutely incredible from a science

science aspect. Yeah. Yeah. And he says if I reignite the sun, it's going to bring to life not just one planet. I'm not going to terraform one place. It's going to terraform an entire solar system. So this will be like his crowning achievement. The biggest

thing he's ever done. Right. But it's in theory. No one's ever done this before. So we don't know. I like how he says, you know, Dax is still a little skeptical. It's not going to work. And he's very confident. He said he's only failed once and he didn't like the way it felt. I love that moment. Wasn't that great? It was great. Oh, my God, it was hilarious. Great scene, lots of fun to watch you guys do it. Do you remember anything about doing this scene?

Is there anything you remember about it? I felt like when it first started, I thought, it was just first started watching the episode. Oh, my gosh, I don't remember this episode. When he came on, though, when I saw Richard Kylie, I was like, I remember loving doing this episode. but it's weird this memory thing because it's like I don't remember being in the room doing it it's funny that way yeah but I remember enjoying working with him and enjoying meeting Sally because I didn't really I mean we had little scenes but with a lot of people so I didn't have moments with her but that it was a fun episode to do and it probably also was in large part because of Alex.

Yeah. Yeah. I thought it was. And I loved having so much to do with Avery. Yeah. I liked working with him. Did you try on the beekeeper hat? Did you get to put that on?

Oh, heck no. I'd ruin my hair. I would never do that to hair and makeup. No. I see hair would not let you even do that. Hair would have tackled you. Like, no, touch that. Right?

And I'm Rhonda responsible. I'm like with hair and makeup wardrobe. I'm like super careful. I am. Did you come up with that? Or does someone else say that? Yes, just now. I've never heard that.

That's really good. Terry Farrell has invented a new term, ladies and gentlemen. Rhonda responsible. Rhonda responsible. My goodness. When you mentioned not remembering the plot of the episode, but you remember how you felt working with a guest star, there's one episode when we were doing Voyager with Willie Garson

that I had so much fun doing that episode with Willie. You knew him beforehand, though. You were friends with him from before. met we had done a play reading at the 52nd street project in new york many years ago right we had sort of cross paths but we knew a lot of the same people and willie garson and i we laughed we had so much fun but when i rewatch the episode i'm like i don't know what happens in this episode but i remember doing it i remember the fun that i had yeah yeah i had one like that on becker huge fan of stephen wright he comes on and does a guest star we were the most

unlikely, you know, like a kind of class. Like, yeah. But we got each other and we just, and it made everybody else hysterical. Like, wow. Those two were having lunch? What? But I just, I just thought he was a really cool. He still talk to him. He's so funny.

No, I mean, we had a great time on the set, but, you know, I know. He's so funny. He's so fun, right? I always time. He's great. Terry, I talk about him on a regular basis because of My first agent when I book Voyager, yes, is the, is the Stephen Wright of agents. He has the same dry-ass delivery, just like.

That's so funny. So I always talk about Stephen Wright. I love Stephen Wright. His comedy albums are amazing because they're literally just one-line jokes. Yeah. It's like, it's not a normal comedy. Nobody else can do it like him. Nobody else can do that.

It's like Ethan Phillips. Ethan Phillips sort of does one-line jokes as well, right? Yeah. I used to play sometimes, I used to play music when I was. directing while we were lighting i i put on like music to set a tone for the scene on a speaker yeah it was good oh i love that that's a nice touch robbie it was fun but sometimes i would put on stephen wright comedy because they were such quick little jokes and if it if we were working in a comedy and stuff just to keep people laughing i'd play stephen right comedy as we were lighting

the scene and it was so smart smart robbie is you know there's two stations with that um jeff Foxworthy and somebody else. There's two comedy stations that I have. I have CNN, MSNBC, the two comedy stations, because after I listened to the news a little bit, then I put on the comedy to laugh. Yeah. Because I like watching dark stuff, but that can really affect you if you're only watching dark movies and stuff like that. So those comedy stations really, and I have seen people look over at me and start laughing because I'm laughing so hard. Because you're laughing in the car. that's amazing it's contagious

it is and it's a good thing it is a good thing all right we go to quarks cafe next dax is there eating with cisco she's talking about

getting ready to leave and basically cisco is just not paying attention cisco is daydreaming he's completely daydreaming he is with fena as in this entire meal his head is there's with fena

he's not with dax and dax notices this sacks knows for sure are you looking for someone he's like uh yeah yeah because don't forget too i have curzon in me yes right so curzon is curious too is cisco's was cisco's mentor yeah so she knows him he yes i only know him i know him in that way because of curzon Yeah. Well, Dax realizes Dax curs on all of her posts together totally know what's going on with Cisco. And so Dax heads out to help O'Brien boost Seatic's maximum speed. They're going to have to be prepared to get away from this sun if they do reignite it. So Dax leaves. And then we go back to the promenade where he was looking at the stars, where he met Phenna.

he goes back to the same window and Fenna reappears she's magically there magically there yeah and she apologizes for disappearing um she says she wants a tour and so they walk off arm and arm so clearly they're they're getting weird because she says she didn't say disappear she says i'm sorry i left so quickly yeah and it was like left you disappeared yes right yeah but he's so infatuated by her at this point he doesn't care yeah he just wants to be near her yeah and she wants the tour so they go up to some upper pylon the upper pylon viewing area yeah where you can look down and see and it was a beautiful angle when they got to that 50 50 shot and by the way i want to say Alex singer did a great job of this episode he really did what did you like about it i just like

the subtlety i know Alex um i remember he would not force blocking. He'd let the actors kind of do things. And he'd fit his plan into that. So I know that he was reacting to what the actors did. You could sense it because the way the camera moved and adjusted, it was actors, you know, bringing the scene to life. And he was just kind of following it in such an elegant way. And how smart to let that inform him. Yeah. I mean, it's a really good way of looking at everything. Instead of making your job harder. Yeah. Yeah. Watch how it unfolds. And speak to what's organically happening yeah and he did that beautifully it felt very organic and elegant and and yeah it was just really good yeah it never took you out there weren't shots where

you went oh what are they doing here yeah well it's another very flirty scene looking down onto the entire station and he compliments her says you know you always know exactly the right thing to say and then he asks about her tell me about yourself but she gets uncomfortable here. She says, I can't tell you. And then she kind of turns to run. She runs to a lift and that dress is kind of blowing back. She runs to the lift. Gorgeous. Very dramatic. Oh, I loved it. And then she spun around and it kind of moved. Yeah, move with her and you see her looking at him. Oh, black man must have been like, yes, yes. You go, girl. Yeah, that is, that is, even on the side of the set going, you go, girl. That's the way I want that dress to flow. Yes, that's exactly what

It was great. Very dramatic ending as she gets in the left and the door shut, you know, and Cisco's just yearning for her there. It was great. Very dramatic moment. Now we're in Cisco's quarters and it's food time again. This whole episode's about eating and not paying attention to what's going on around you. So yes, he's eating with his son. Jake and Jake's telling this story about a friend barfing basically from Klingon Worms. And it's so funny because I don't think a word of it even makes it into Benjamin Cisco's head. He doesn't hear anything. All he hears and can think of is Fennah and more Fennah, but the look that, I mean, the looks that you see on Sariq's face, how did you read that final look at the very end? He almost looked pissed. He just gave this, or super confused. He gave this really weird look at his dad. I wanted it directed differently because he did he did two double takes it was like and it was just one was enough one was enough yes and and two made it look like he wasn't a good actor and he is so i think as a director i would have i don't think there's a way to cut fast enough without it ruining the shot

could that have been cut and it could it have been edited out at that point you could have edited that second yeah it was a double double cut out yeah you could well don't you agree i agree with you and but i think this, but an edit would have been fine. But I noticed it. I don't, I think that it would have been better. Also, sometimes when I, it's this terrible to say, but I didn't really believe Avery was fantasizing. I agree.

This is where, this is where I started losing this episode, to be honest. Oh, in this scene? In this particular. Around this time of the episode. Right. Because I didn't really, I wasn't invested in his, I didn't believe that he, he really loved this woman. was like that, you know, Jake starts saying, oh, you're in love.

And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, pump the brakes. He hasn't done that. He asked that, though. Yeah, he asks it. And he says, but you're showing three signs of love. It's a daydreaming, loss of appetite, smiling all the time. How could he be in love when he's literally talked to this woman for 30 seconds in total? Like, it just didn't make any sense to me.

It's puppy love. It's that initial sort of excitement attraction. It's not love love. But also, in how he was daydreaming when he had food. with me and when he's having food with Jake did not look like in love daydreaming. He just looked preoccupied. Yes. And I think it should have looked more, I think there should have been more lightness around it. Yeah. And I, I just, I didn't believe that he was lost and thought about her. I didn't. I hate saying that because I really, I really love and admire Avery, but that just

bothered me. It bothered me too, because I thought it was a different story. I kept thinking, why did they have the first scene about his dead wife if it's not going to have anything to do with us so I kept thinking oh his look is really weird and heavy because it's really about he's being haunted by some version

spirit of his ex-wife that looks different I kept looking for a more complicated story because it was played confusing to me okay so can I throw this out there was it played heavy because as an actor he was thinking am I feeling guilty for having these thoughts about another woman right now? Am I being bad?

That would have been a great story. They should have written that story. Okay. I would have preferred that story. I thought maybe that's what Avery was working on and that's what he brought to the table was like, look, this is not right for Jennifer. This doesn't do her memory justice. How dare I have feelings for this other woman?

Or just having some guilt all the way around. And I thought maybe that's the heaviness he was playing, though. Then you have to speak to it. Then you have to speak to it. But it's not. This story is too short, that 42 minutes is too short for us to make that grand assumption. Yes. Because we're focused on this beautiful girl who, or woman, that we are really, because of the first scene, really happy for him that he's finally had some feelings.

But that also should be something that we're feeling when he's lost in thought. For people to think that he's in love with somebody, I just think you come off. happier and less kind of concerned it's not that he you know seemed haunted to me it seemed haunted the look it was like it didn't seem joyful yeah and like like ooh I'm filled with anticipation and I'm intoxicated by this woman yeah that's not how it felt while he was playing with his own yeah also felt like perfunctory not yeah genuine yeah yeah and maybe had stuff going on in his personal life we don't know you know how that maybe we have no close i just this episode to me started falling apart here and we'll get to in the ratings and things

like that but yeah i just was like oh even though there's individual things richard kiley's phenomenal sally's amazing there's great moments i was terrific dax was this another phenomenal terrible episode but it's just individually there's moments and pieces but as a as an episode it to me Started going downhill here and continued to go downhill, in my opinion. And here we go. Here we go. Benjamin Sisko does admit, though, to Jake that he is in love, basically.

Jake wants to meet her. And Cisco says she keeps disappearing. And that's where we get that funny look, yeah, from Surrock. That weird double take. He is so obsessed. He is so obsessed with Fenna that the next scene, he's now in Odo's office. And asking Odo for a personal favor, Odo's like, well, what do you need? He's like, well, I need to find somebody.

and Odo's like, okay, well, what do you have? He's like, Fena, first name or last. I have no clue. He doesn't even know what species she is. He doesn't know anything. So all this stuff, all the information he's giving to Odo, it's just very uninformative. It's the best way to put it.

Her name's Fennah, I don't know her last name. I don't know where she's from. I don't know her species. Yeah, she's, she wears red. She's wearing red. The way he said it. Wow. that was hot but see that's another indication where it's like well then why wasn't that

that in there when he was playing with his suit his food in both scenes yeah yeah because it was inconsistent i don't know it just felt inconsistent to me but i loved um how he said red it was just so magnetic he started to say he said she's wearing and then it's like this light bulb yeah she's wearing red. Yeah. So like, I just wanted to feel that. I felt him saying red, right? It wasn't just the color. It was like, red is a feeling. Yeah. Yes. That's the color. Yes. I did like Renee's sort of, okay, well, I don't have much to go on, but I'll try. I'll do what I can. Yeah. I think this goes very appreciative. And then Renee, after Cisco leave, Renee was like, oh, jeez. He, he, I

rolled her. He enrolled Cisco, didn't he? He was like, oh my God. Yes. I love it. It was funny. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh, my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip. You've been doing your impersonation of me. Yes. You know what doesn't belong in everyone's epic summer plans, though? What? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. So while you're planning your beach trips and your barbecues and your three-day weekends, your wireless bill should be the last thing holding you back. Well, that is why I made the switch to Mint Mobile. The coverage and speed are the same as I'm used to,

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like, like, um, Curzon. You're playing it like a dude. Like your physicality. Thank you. It was so good. It's because I'm a woman. You're, you're, you can play a dude well. You're so versatile. You can, it doesn't matter. what gender it is terry farrow will play it dad it was like guys in the locker room it was that kind of you know and cisco's got his baseball he's tossing it to to dax at the end of the scene like it was just really well well done how happy was i when i caught the baseball without looking at it oh good job yeah in a close up and then i tossed it and still caught it i that was the only stress of that entire episode i love when when dach says you um it's

It's because I'm a woman now, isn't it? And Cisco's laugh. Avery Brooks laugh right there. His line is, it doesn't even say, you know, his line is, don't be ridiculous. And I'm sure there were no other instruction in the script saying, you must laugh here. No, but we both just laughed. We know, yeah. It was just this great laugh between both of you.

Thank you. Okay. Well, that's what's fun about working with him. Mm-hmm. You never know how he's going to play it or how he's going to say it. Well, and you have to be loose. Yeah, you do. Loosey goosey, go with the flow.

Yeah. And it goes both ways. Yes. I mean, Dax is really, really insistent upon getting information. And Cisco's just saying, look, as soon as I know, as soon as there's something to talk about, I'll let you know. And there you go. The guy bonding scene between Dax and Cisco.

Yes. Or Curzon, Dax and Cisco. I love that part of it. Cisco says Odo's continuing to search for new information about Fennah. In the meantime, Seatic has invited me and the senior staff to dinner on board his ship. of Prometheus. Yes. So we go inside Santic's quarters. It's a crew dinner. It's like a rap party. The whole cast. Everybody's there. Yeah, that ship was cool, though, huh? It was very cool. Very cool ship. Yeah. But we have everyone here, right? We've got Dax. We've got Kira. We've got

Bashir. We've got O'Brien. We've got Cisco. Everyone's there with the whole gang. Everybody's there. Crew dinner. And Santic is a talker, basically. He's a storyteller. And Bashir's kind of into it. You know, Bashir asks, how is, how are you going to reignite the sun? And Sayatik goes into all the explanation. He's going to have a remote shuttle, deliver this protomatter. It's going to reignite the star. They talk about his memoir and Sayatik says, all nine, all nine volumes of his memoir. I love that. It was very funny. What did he say about his wives? Like one, he said, I wanted to have a volume for each wife or something like that. What? To match my wife. Yeah, he He says something about this.

You would think, wow, he's been married nine times. Yeah. But it's not hard to imagine with that kind of personality. I always said I wanted to write as many books as I've had marriages. There you go. There you go. Thank you. Should Jake have been at this dinner as well?

Is it weird that he's not there? No. It's not weird. It's an adult dinner. Just a grown-up dinner? Okay. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. Continue. Bashir does mention that he went to his art exhibit and say it's Tick talks about his art for a minute and Bashir says, well, they were the largest paintings I've ever seen in my life. He sort of describes these enormous paintings. So you can tell his ego is just, you know,

he does everything big. And you can also tell that Bashir is a fanboy. Yeah. Which is sweet. It is very sweet. It is very sweet. And then he goes to get his wife, to bring his wife in. Because she cooked every single dish by hand, right?

it was not replicator. That's the whole. Homemade dinner. Very, very proud of his wife goes to get her. And this is where Kira wants to get out of here. She's like, can we just leave? She's very funny. And then Seatic returns with his wife, whose name is Nadell, but she looks like Fena,

identical to Fena. And I love Dax's last line in the scene when she comes out. Dax goes, well, now we have something to talk about. Yes. and her demeanor is so completely different it's so different it's not like she's acting it's like she does such a good job that it's just yeah polar opposite completely yeah everything that we see her doing as fenna has been turned off it's like the switch is like click gone yeah like she's She's disengaged almost.

She's not, she's there like she has to be. Well, she did a good job being the wife who doesn't want to be in the relationship with the husband who she's no longer in love with, basically, right? So I think she's a great job. Well, how could you stand love with somebody who's not interested in anything you're doing? Yeah. And it's always about his thing, his thing. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. After dinner, we're at the dining table. and say it basically goes through the recipe for his dinner creation gives everybody all the ingredients yes and while he's doing that dask is talking to Cisco privately off to the side about you know is this the same woman she looks the same Cisco says but it's weird sounds the same sounds the same yeah probably you just called Terry's character Dask instead of decks I did yeah yeah it's okay like she's a desk Ask desk. Ask tax about her desk. That's what happens when we try to hurry.

Yes, exactly. All right. Continue. Anyway, they have this little side conversation. They can't figure this out. And then they decide to, they all decide, say, Tick's going to take them into the other room to relax and continue the conversation. Cisco stays behind. And he asked Nadell why she didn't just tell him that she was married. And she says, what are you talking about?

we just met and he says do you know fenna and she pauses she does pause there for a minute which i thought was interesting when he brings up the name she kind of stops and it does register what we know from the end that she does know who fenna is yeah yeah the same similar i don't want to ruin anything but yeah don't tell me the ending you have to listen to the whole podcast. Exactly. She says, you must have

mistaken me for someone else and then he leaves. So she's not helping at all here. Yeah. She's absolutely have no help.

He seemed very upset, though, and she says, Commander, obviously you have mistaken me for someone else and his final lines just goes,

seems that way, doesn't it? He's not happy at all. Yes. No, it seems like he just doesn't believe her. Yeah,

no, he feels like she's blowing him off, right? right now that's what she's thinking yeah and that's kind of what how i was taking it watching it she's a liar philanderer exactly we're in the ops next cisco's talking to dax and and cisco says he insists that this has got to be the same woman yeah and dach says well just talk to her when she's not around her husband and he's like dax she's a married woman and i love dax's response

she goes oh my gosh well that never stopped curzon did it i was like whoa But we did see that episode where Curzon was with them. Yes, the married woman. Well, Odo enters in the middle of Dax talking about having Curzon affairs. Otto enters and says he cannot find this woman. And Cisco says, it's okay. I found her. Don't worry about it.

Cisco says she came from the Prometheus. And Otto stops. He's like, wait, that's impossible. Sayatik is the only person that came off of that ship. No one else. No one else came off of that ship. So very confusing. And I kept waiting for this ghost of Jennifer's storyline that I thought I was going to be.

I'm still stuck on. Let it go. I know. Let it go, Robbie. But why did they have that first scene then? It makes no sense. No, it doesn't. It has nothing to do this episode.

They never reference a dead wife or any of that again. No. Yeah, that's weird. I thought that maybe the reference would be more, you remind me of my wife, Jennifer. Yeah, anything. Something like that would have helped. Nothing. Yeah, nothing.

Or even if you didn't say it to her, but he said it to me, Dax. She reminds me of Jennifer. Yes. Plenty of opportunities for him to kind of put it together, get some context. Just like three spots. Yeah. The big juicy thing. a couple of little extras would have helped tie

everything together. Agreed. Yeah. Agreed. Armand had a lot of time off on this episode, didn't he? I think he only has this one scene here coming up. That he does very well. He does. It was a great scene. Yeah. Well, we're back on the upper level of the promenade. Cisco goes back up there to try

to find Fenna. And she stood him up this time. She didn't show up. And that's when Quark appears. And Quark, Cork sees that he's been stood up, invites Sisko to come to the bar to talk about women, which I thought was very funny. So cute.

But it was very sweet. It seemed very sincere. Yeah. Cork seemed very sincere. Yes. And even when he says, when Cisco says he doesn't want to talk about women with him, Quark walks away. And his last parting comment is, don't forget, the Hall of Sweets are always open.

So he's still trying to help. He's like, look, if you feel bad about being stood up, we do have Holla sweets. I thought that was very nice of him. Although that kind of felt smarmy. after the release to me. It was like, I don't think that's what's on his mind. Well, because Cisco was covering all the basis.

I thought that was the whole agenda that he's like, you've been stood up. Let's go talk about it. And he was going to get him to go to a hollow suite, spend some money. Oh, you felt that? I felt like the whole thing, that was his agenda. He's quirk, not Armin.

Armin wouldn't do that. But quirk, yeah. Quark would. But I love that he sold it sincerely. Me too. I thought that was great. Sisko goes back. He doesn't want to go to a Hallisweet.

He goes back to his quarters. And just as he goes into the door, enters the door, he hears Fenna, Fennah appears, surprises him, appears out of nowhere again. She's magic. And he wants to know if she's married. He's like, I need some answers here. Ask, do you know, she asks, do you know Nadel? And she says, no, don't know Nadell.

Well, he says, like, you're telling me that you're name isn't really Nadel and you're not the wife of Gideon say a tick so he says every he lays it all out right there yeah he does he say you have a twin yeah he does ask about you know you didn't have a twin sister do you uh yeah that's in there too I think yeah but she she says no none of like that's not true it's she's not lying to him and she's very sincere in the scene and it's very sweet she says You know, she thought that she was looking for a place to belong. But now she knows she was looking for a person. And that you see she's really in love with Cisco here has strong feelings.

Romcom. Yeah, because she never answers anything. She still doesn't. So it's like this should be a big red flag. It should be. But instead, if you're asking someone a question. Right? Instead, he makes out with her.

Because he's lonely and she's beautiful. Yeah, but didn't that bother you, though? Like, if I was just go, I'd be thinking like, wait a minute, you're really playing a game with my head. Although I've kind of been there myself. If someone's seducing you and not really giving you information, but you're lonely and you want connection, sometimes all of us let those hormones take over that love is blind thing is no joke. Yeah. That's like trickery in a way because that's not sincere.

no no then you're being seduced and you might want to be seduced for a period of time but you must know that like cisco says this is a dream yeah it's not something real unless you're sharing real information and and making an intimate connection i think that was my problem with this episode is because as a character she had to not give him any information i felt like well then it makes Cisco looks stupid because he should at a certain point go there's something wrong or dangerous

I'm not playing this I'm not playing this and he didn't yeah and well I think he has kind of done that though and at the end of this scene when she disappears after the kiss you can see his frustration and to me I imagine

that Cisco is intelligent enough to know that this is a red flag that this woman isn't but he's still designed her and physically you can't blame him because she's beautiful yeah right yeah and he's been lonely and it's been four years and it's a lot to finally feel attracted to somebody when you haven't felt attracted to anybody for years yeah so I can understand where he gets sucked in but I love how he has his face and his hands with this frustration of I have to know more and this something's wrong

with this, but I'm so crazy attracted to her. I don't know what to do with it. I like that moment. Yeah, it was a nice moment when he drops down, sits down, and then she squats down or kneels down, comes down to his level. And that's when they kiss in a very sweet, very romantic. It's all very romantic. It's just also. Yeah, but she disappears right after that kiss. And when he throws himself into his what? Yeah. No, I was just going to say like when he does that thing like that, it's, to me, it was a weird choice because he just physically saw her disappear in front of him for the first time. It's not a beam out. He knows it's not being transported.

He knows what a transporter beam out sounds like, looks like. He should have been more like, what the, you know, WTF? What happened? Yeah, and she's like, what's happening to me? He's like, oh, I was going to get something. I was going to get. I was going to get. I was going to have get.

Yeah. It was like, no, dude. That's not. That's not I was thinking, but still, why didn't he reach out to her? How about that? Because she was also, yeah, he should have went, like, just reaching out, like, where the? Because she looked confused when she started to disappear. Yeah, she calls his name.

She says, Benjamin, what's happening, basically. She doesn't know what's happening. And he could stand up and go to her. Fana. Yes, that's what I thought he was gone. That would have been a good thing. He didn't make it. We fixed it.

We did. It's all changed now. We're called the show doctors. We're going to fix. Every show for you. We know how to do it. We fix this scene. Yes.

Cisco should be, you know, reach for her and try to catch her. There you go. We go to the airlock next in the airlock corridor. Dax is preparing. Back to sanity. Yes. Back to sanity with Dax. That's her cable access show.

Sanity with Dax. 3 p.m.'s on. Okay. Go ahead. Yeah, she's getting ready to depart. O'Brien has the engines we learn able to get to warp. 9.6. And Dax talks about, well, wasn't it, shouldn't we only go to 9.5? Isn't that what they say? And, and Miles is basically saying, I've made it giving you a little extra. But Tom Paris. Tell me Tom Paris. Yes. This is what Tom Paris would say about getting near Warp 10. You may turn into a salamander. You may kidnap the captain or the commander and have babies with them. So don't, don't go past Warp 10.

I'm just saying. Just saying. I'll keep that in mind. Miles doesn't know this, but he has put Dax in danger of turning into a salamander, getting that close. I would make a very cute salamander. You would. Thank you.

Cisco arrives as they're getting ready. Sayatik says, let's go, hurry up. And Cisco says he wants to come along. He does have a funny line, though, right? And when he says, must I remind you, lieutenant, some of us only have one. lifetime. Yes, that was cute. That was cute. That was cute. But I'm worried that Cisco's coming along. Oh, yeah. This is the last minute change. And what if something goes awry? Because that's the whole reason we have to work 9.6 because if that thing goes supernova, we got a high tail out of there.

You're toasted. Yeah. I don't even think we'd get out of there. No, I don't think you would. Terry, I love awry, the use of that word. People don't use it enough. Arry. Oh, wow. I'm showing my age. No. Put a wry in a poem. The next poem needs to have a rye in it. A rye. Okay, so next scene is on the Prometheus Bridge.

And did you notice all the TNG-style uniforms on this bridge? Yes. Good for you. I don't understand it. I don't, why would, because the DS9 people have the uniforms that we had on Voyager. Why would the Prometheus have the TNG? I just didn't, it's cool, but I didn't understand it. Yeah.

Are they a different part of Starfleet? No, we should have all had the same uniform. But the assign is different because they've taken starch and bent out the little opening. Yeah. Well, and too, TNG is happening concurrently. It's still happening. Yeah. Oh.

So that would make sense that it doesn't really matter because we didn't have the same uniforms as next gen. and they were filming. We overlap two years in filming, but we were happening in the same time period. Yeah. Timeline, thank you. I get it. That does make sense then that you mix and match a little bit.

And they probably had extra uniforms. Maybe that was just like, okay. That's a budget. That would make the most sense. We don't have to make new uniforms. Yep. We got plenty of these old TNG uniforms. Let's throw them on the.

Yeah, but if you think about continuity, though, once they roll out a new uniform, the new DS9 uniform, the TNG guy should have been switched over to that uniform then to make a, you know, to have continuity. Unless like maybe on starships, they have one uniform and out in the field like on a space station where you're not on a starship. Maybe it's a different uniform. I think that's a good excuse. Besides also, it differentiates that we're coming from DS9 and these people are on the Prometheus. So if they're not wearing Starfleet uniforms, they should have been wearing something different anyway.

so that we're not confused as an audience. So why are all the Deep Space Nine people on this Prometheus? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Okay. And maybe in the budget, it was better to use the TNG, yeah, uniforms than it was to make new uniforms for what on one episode one scene. My own curiosity. What are both of your takes on the TNG style uniform?

Do you prefer those over, do you think those look better than DS9 era or Voyager era uniforms? I think that TNG looked more like the original series, like some of the films. It felt more connected to the films of the original series. Okay. But I don't know. But they were kind of spandexy too, weren't they? Well, you wore the TNG uniform when you guest starred on it. Did you like wearing that better?

No. Oh, you did not. No, I didn't. Okay. It was cooler. It was less like the, our uniforms were wool and they were really hot. So it was cooler to wear on your body, not cool. as in looking cool.

Temperature-wise, I was much more comfortable, temperature-wise, but in terms of the fit, the material? The material on the TNG uniform was stretchier because it was like spandexy. That part I liked. I just didn't like the way it looked. Like, it was not forgiving.

It was like, it was every crevice. It's not forgiving. We started out with the wool uniforms and then we switched to the spandex ones. What? Really? Yeah. I don't want to ruin the story for you.

I don't want to ruin the story for you. They do change because Terry, they gave us the wool and we stayed with the wool. We never went to anything. Yeah, we were in wool all seven years. We were dying. It was hot. They were hot. Yeah, they are hot.

And I had wool crepe on top of my head to make that, put my hair over that to make it big. Oh, my gosh. So they gave me pin curls to have my three quarter fall and that thing of wool and my hair cover. So it was like I was wearing a wool hat. Yeah, like a winter hat. Yes. And you had a wool cap on? I did not know that. Right?

The entire seven, six years, you had wool cap? Yes. Wow. It's called crape wool. Okay. And they just put it in between. But it's wool. Yeah.

So it keeps your heat in, right? Yeah. And then what are they called? Support hose. And who, who, why did we have to have a one piece turtle neck long sleeve shirt underneath it. It should have been a dicky. Like a dicky.

Oh, I'm so sorry. A dicky with fake sleeves. But then you'd be right up against the wool, which would be scratchy and uncomfortable. That's true. So it was just, we were all hot. It was, yes, they were very uncomfortable. Those hot lights and not in a sexy way. No.

On the Prometheus, they have different uniforms, which is weird, but we've solved that problem. And made me a lot of it. Save the episode. They're en route to this. dead son. Dax is working with this crew member named Piersol who was getting the

Prometheus ready here. I will, normally I don't say this, but I didn't like this actor very much. I didn't think he was great. I didn't believe him at all. No. Is he the commander of that bridge? It seems like, yeah.

And he was the one that basically towards the end had pretty much no emotion about what Ciotic was doing. as well, that guy. Yeah. He looked like he was very unhappy to be there and he had to say the line. Or nervous or something. I think it was nerves, guys.

It's usually nervous. I'm going to say it's going to be nerves. He's very inexperienced and nervous. And I just, and after having Richard Kylie, Richard Kylie, for God's sakes, you want a strong crew. And I just felt like they've got the cheap version on the crew. They really did. Yeah.

They really did. Yeah. And I don't even know, is that something, Robbie, you think that Alex could have helped? helped a little bit more? Or was that out of this control? Well, here's the thing. He had two lines. You're not going to get a massively experienced actor.

For the under five. They could have paid someone a full guest star rate, even though there was only a few lines. But instead, they went for the under five rate, which is a much cheaper rate. But you're going to get different actors willing to do that. Yeah. And people with less experience, that's a hard job.

That's a hard job to come on and do two lines. it. I did that on my, I got my aftercard on as the world terms, the soap opera in New York in an under five role. And I was terrified because you only have a, you know, two or three lines and you're waiting for your turn. Yes. And everybody else. Oh, it was horrible. Well, it's hard when you're even doing the show. Yeah. And you only have a couple lines in the middle of a series regular. It still makes you notice. Yeah. Well, especially because they're running on time. And that one mistake you've got to start over with all those people such a nightmare well anyway so we're on the bridge of the prometheus they're headed there um they're trying to get the protomatter ready

seatic tells cisco stories about transforming uh terraforming new halana i think it was um and that's where he met nadell and nadell was a daughter of a dignitary there and she was very infatuated with him from the start so he ended up taking her off world for the first time she'd ever been off world. And he gets very emotional at the end of the scene, says that she loves him deeply, but he doesn't know why. And this was a moment. This was an important moment because you know there's more going on there in that marriage

than he's saying that we have seen so far. Yeah. And it was evident in the dinner, too, because he took over explaining the food. So he's controlling how she cooks it. She looks miserable. She looks really unhappy. and like a kept woman. That's like a bird in a cage.

That's what she seemed like at that dinner to me. Yeah. Those two final lines when Cisco says, she must love you very much. And Sayatik says she does, commander. Don't ask me why, but she does. That line is his realization that he's kind of a jerk, that he's not a great husband.

He knows. He knows. Yeah. That she's unhappy. And it's really heartbreaking how he delivers the line because he really does give all of that to us in just those two sentences. Oh, my God. Good job, Richard Kylie.

We go into the guest quarters. I guess it's like crew cabins on the Prometheus. And Cisco walks in and there's Fennah waiting for him. How'd she get on the ship? I'm very confused. But anyway, Fenna's there. And he says, well, you vanished last time I saw you. So he calls Dax.

He wants a witness here. he wants somebody else to be here calls dax he wants the science officer too dax pulls out the tricorder she's scanning fenna no physical form there's nothing nothing corporeal about her she's all energy all energy yeah and so they take fenna out back out to go find sayatic and get some answers and uh sayatic is in his quarters with nedell panicking because Nadell is unconscious, he can't wake her up. Cisco, Fena, and Dax come in. Sayatix wants Dax to help.

Sayatix. I mix Sayatix and Dax into one character. I love it. Sayadax. And you almost said Dax again. Sayatek wants Dax to help, but she says she can't do anything that Nadell is dying. Sayatik then sees Fena.

And he's very, angry at Fenna. So clearly he knew Fena. He wasn't being completely honest. He knew who Fennah was. Blames Fennah for all of this. He says, I should have known. And we kind of cut to a commercial break there. We come back to that moment

and Sayatik tells Fena to go back that she promised never to, you know, come back here. But Fennas clueless though. Fennah has no recollection of this prior time that she was Fena. She has no clue. No, it's not her fault. No. No, no at all.

Cisco ask what is going on people. Explain this to me. Sayatik says Nadell is a psycho-projective telepath. I'm so happy you said that because I was like, I can't say that. What? A psycho-projective telepath. I thought you were saying that she was a psycho and then a projective

telepath. She's also a little psycho at times. Okay. Yeah. All right. But Seatic knows that. Nadell is just projecting because Nadell is the is the is just projected. Yeah.

Fena is just a projection. Yeah. And that's when Dax scans her and says, scans Nadel and says she's going to die from all this effort that her, that her brain is just on fire here. And Cisco sends Dax with Fena to leave, you know, wants them to get out and demands that say to explain everything. and he tells the story that all these wives, the nine wives he's had before, they all eventually grow tired of him, they leave. But Hanalans, which is what Nadel is, Hanalans mate for life, so she can't leave him, even if she wanted to.

She just can't do it. Poor baby. You know what? It's Halana. Is that what it is? It's Halana. Halana is the planet. It's a place.

Imagine if your wife was from there, your Star Trek wife. Balana from Halana. is what her name would have been. I didn't know where you were going with that, but okay. I didn't either. I don't know, Valana. So there we have it. Another reason to watch Voyager.

Yes. Terry watches Voyager. We go to another crew quarters and Cisco comes in, explains to Fenna that she is only a projection. She's not real. She's got to return to Nadell or else Nadell is going to die. And Fennas heartbroken because she says she loves Cisco. And this is when he says, you know,

what we have is just. a dream. It's not real. And that's when Dax calls and says, Sayate took the shuttle with the energy headed to the dead star and the sun. So we know that he's pulling some move here. Episode 119. Yes. Back on the bridge, Cisco runs in, tries to talk Sayatek out of doing this. Sayatek says, this is the only way to set Nadal free. I've got to sacrifice myself. And he says, oh, by the way, I

I wrote my own obituary. I love this moment. Oh, my gosh. There's something in my fault you're going to find. Yes. And I'm thinking, wow, what is it like some exciting thing? He's written his own obituary. He's prepared for everything. That's how full of himself he is. He's writing his own obituary. It's amazing. Amazing that he even has time to marry all these women. Yes. Yeah. But this is where Pearsall says his line almost like he's doing a Stephen Wright impersonation. and, Professor, you'll be killed. What do you think you're doing? And I was like, no, don't do that. Yeah, it was painful. Oh, it was so painful. But I do, Robbie, I do think it's nerves. I think it's nerves.

Yeah, I do too. Right? Yeah, and you know what? Our sets are really intimidating. There's so many people. It's a lot of people running around. Yeah. You know, so I feel for the actor.

I feel for the actor, but somebody should have voiced over to his performance. Yeah. Yeah. Seitek does say he wrote his own obituary, but he said, I didn't have time to update it. So please add that I sacrificed myself at the altar of science. He just wants a heroic addition. More. More heroic addition.

I'm more. I'm just more. It's just the way he said that, sacrificed myself at the altar of science. With a smile on his face. With a smile on his face. It's so sayatic. It's so. Yes.

Love it. Okay. But he does crash into this, take this shuttle with all the protomatter yeah and I do like how the screen starts to do

the oh yeah it's fritzing as he's getting yes I like that a lot that really helped like oh gosh he really is close it helped tell the story I love that yeah I like his last sentence

let there be light oh wasn't that great yeah and who is that that's basically God complex right like crazy and then God said let there be light and I was like I love it

wow It does work, though. The sun does reignite. And then Cisco turns to look at Fennah. And as it's reigniting, she's fading away with a single tear. Okay, what is that tier? Is that tear that she's losing? I know it's glycerin.

Honestly, it's so thick. I know it's slither. But I would say what, but I want your opinions on is Fennah crying because she'll never see Cisco? Or is there a realization from Fena that she, She is really Nadell and that she's seeing her husband passing away. What did you read the tear as? I'm curious for both of you. I think it's already been established that she has no history.

She has no knowledge of the professor. So her entire experience has been completely focused on Cisco. Yeah. Got it. I have a question, though. Yeah. If the professor, the scientist, has just killed himself, how does that affect like this is a projection from Nadell so the sun being ignited has nothing to do with

this projection why would it fade in this moment I guess for dramatic purposes that we know that you know now that he's dead it's not like it's not like Nadell's they're going oh free at last exactly free at last right she's not even in the she's not even on the britt in the room she's not even conscious she's almost dying but that's why I thought maybe part of her saw her husband die and realize maybe tears of joy. Oh, Nadal could see through the projection. That's what I was wondering, guys. Okay, that would be a cool thing to know. Yeah.

It wasn't told well then. No, because that would be really. As a validation for what happened to the tier. I like that idea. Yeah. I do too. I really like that idea. Okay. Because if we knew that, then we would also understand her attraction to Cisco that is

you know maybe that it's about Nadele being attracted to Cisco and sending the projection out because she's too she couldn't as a married woman but as a projection she could just get it on

better way to tell that story would have helped because it was not clear to me and the glycerin tear felt very fakey fake because her eyes were beautifully white and clear

with this one line drawn down the line of Of glycerin is what they use. If you're going to do glycerin, you need a little menthol, too, so your eyes get red. Redding it up. You add menthol to it? Yeah. Yeah.

That's true. But Fenna is gone. We have a supplemental log. Susco says, Epsilon 119 continues to burn brightly. A fitting memorial to a brilliant man. Meanwhile, I'm happy to report Nadell has made a complete recovery. Unfortunately, she has no memory of Fena's experiences. See, this is where the Nadell, it all sort of falls apart.

Yeah, it does. Yeah. It does. Yeah. It does. Yeah. Because if she did have some memory of it, then we'd be like, oh, okay. Yes.

Yeah. So we go to the promenade back at the, the, the, the Fenno window, I'm going to call it. Can we just call it the Fendo instead of the Fendo? Oh, I like it. So the window, the Fendo. Yes. Yes. He's gazing out.

Nadell appears, not Fennon at this time. Nadell appears wants to say goodbye. And she says, says she wishes she could remember fenna and cisco says he can she says what does she like what was she like and cisco goes fenna she was just like you and that was it and then she walks away super slowly by the way i know it was like what was that what was that well the whole thing was so odd because he wasn't he was facing away from her through most of the scene yeah which of course made you feel like this must be difficult for him but when he

said, I guess what would he say? She's just like you. It was, but for all of us, she was not at all like her at all. In fact, it's too bad. Nadell wasn't a little more like Fennah. Yeah. Because she was less attractive, less interesting. It was like she was just devoid a personality. Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Yeah, I wish there had been some change in the character. You know, that was another problem I had is that Fenna and Nadell didn't seem to have any change that happened to them because of this episode. Nothing changed. It would have been nice to see in this scene with Ndell, her a little more present. Yes.

And even if she were sad, but showing some kind of emotion because it was clear she wasn't happy in her marriage, now he's dead. So this should be, even though it must be a mixed feeling, but for her to have no emotion. feelings. Yeah. I almost wonder. It wasn't like she's a Vulcan. It's like, okay, that would be different. But still, there needed to be something. But remember, this is early in this actor's career. Maybe this scene was shot in the very beginning of that seven day shoot. And maybe she was nervous as hell. And it came out kind of like a little flat, right? It was a little flat for sure. You would want some type of resolution. I was like thinking it was a directorial or written issue. I wasn't thinking it was a her issue. Yeah. But I'm sure she, because sometimes, you know. There were a lot of writers on this, by the way. I try not to look at credits because I don't want to see what actors are going to surprise me. But I did notice about 500 writers names. Oh, yeah.

Story by and teleplay. And there's a lot. And there's an appra sand in there as well in the ands. And there's a regular and with all those different writers. There's all kinds of writers. So you would think that would make it better. But sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it doesn't.

Yeah, too many chefs in the kitchen. Because this script to me was one of the weakest so far, honestly, of your show. Script-wise, I think there were great moments. Do you have a theme or a moral of this episode, Robbie, that you have come up with? Yes, aside from too many writers being a theme. Less writers would be better. Probably would have been better. But my theme is dreams can be inspiring, but it's important.

to distinguish between dreams and real. That's my complex theme, I guess. Oh, I like that. I'm going to piggyback because honestly watching it, I was like I felt like I didn't know where to begin because there's also Richard Kiley, like with being so self-involved. You just erase any chance of connection and look at how much you miss out on. But I like what you're saying because that was.

was really the red flags for me with Cisco as the concern. Yeah. Right. The further he got into it before he really gave pushback. It was like, this woman's giving you nothing. Yeah. Yeah. How can you be so interested?

Yeah. There's a lot of red flags there. He ignored. Right. There needs to be more than just physical attraction. And certainly, gratefully, he was very much aware of that. Finally. Finally became aware of it.

A little late in the episode. Well, I think he was aware of it, but then he didn't do something about it, right? Yeah, it's hard for me to come up with a theme other than be wary of a person who doesn't divulge anything to you about who they are. I guess that's probably the only thing I can say for this one. It wasn't an episode that I would sit there and go like, gosh, this episode changed my life. Like, this is the episode that really made me feel like I can get up and go do this. No, it was just like, what's happening here? I'm so confused.

Like, what is happening here? Maybe it's more about having the character. development, showing us who he is and a little softer side instead of just that one dimensional being the commander, the captain. I can't remember where he sat and it to me was always my captain. So, even though they called him commander, which is weird. So weird. Yeah.

Okay, we have a Patreon poll winner for the theme or moral of the episode. And Terry, would you like to read about these themes and morals? I would love to. Okay. submission it's a tie a submission from step lee dreams are expressions of what we want most and a submission from jordan right the heart wants what the heart wants all right well that's it for this episode of the delta flyers we went through second site talked about all the different things that we were confused about we talked about a lot of

yeah we did especially in our intro i loved bonding with you guys It was a, it was an us bonding episode, if anything, right? Yeah, I mean, the podcast makes us show up, but, you know, us hanging out is the goal, really. A little group therapy before the recent recording. That's always fun. I want to thank you both for that. Thank you. You're welcome.

I needed it. You're welcome. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning into this recap and discussion of Second Site. Join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode Sanctuary. And next time for all the Patreon patrons is July 7th at 9 p.m. And for everyone else, you'll be, you'll be tuning in, listening to the episode on July 8th. See you then.

And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. So, You know, Bhopal, B. So, B, Bhopal,

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