The Delta Flyers - Second Skin

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode, Second Skin, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, & Terry Farrell.Second Skin: Kira is kidnapped by the Cardassians, who try to convince her that she is really one of them.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Danie Crofoot, Steve Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, & Hailey L.And our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Shanyn Behn, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Crystal Powell, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Mark Lacey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Carmen Puente, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Robert Allen Stifflerf, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Karen Galleski, Zackery Voss, Loretta Reyes, Timothy McMichens, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, & Douglas Lawrence-Plant, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, & Oscar FernandezThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone, and welcome to Delta Flyers' Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry, join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors, Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and my for the complete version of this podcast, including all bonus material and an interview with Nana Visitor about this episode, check us out at patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Terry's love that. I was going to follow that with a double. I was going to what, what? But then it was enough room. You don't want to step on it. Good for you. Yeah.

Hi, guys. Hey, Robbie, everybody. It's been a minute. Nice to see you guys. I know. Coming back to talk about this episode, second skin today. Very excited about that. Yes.

Very much so. Can we jump into birthdays right off the bat? Just get in my way. Yes, let's do it. All right. Starting off with our good friend, the youngest ever admiral. Shannon Bork from Australia. December 10th is your birthday.

birthday. You are a fellow Sagittarian like myself. Happy birthday to you, Shannon Borg. Shannon Borg. Happy, happy birthday. Shannon Bork, happy, happy, happy birthday. Woo, woo. We also have Mike Philman on December 11th. Happy birthday, Mike. Happy birthday, Mike. Happy birthday, fellow Sagittarian, Mike. And we have Carol Patterson, December 13th. Happy birthday. Carol. Happy birthday, Carol. Happy birthday to yet another fellow Sagittarian. Carol. And of course, we have yet another Sagittarian on December 13th. Happy birthday to Estelle. Happy birthday, Estelle. Happy birthday, Estelle. And last but not least, we have Justin Weir on December 14th. Happy birthday, Justin. Happy birthday, Justin. One day before my B-Day, Justin. Happy birthday to you.

Yay. All right. And also we have to have a quick hello and welcome to Tim Newmark, who is a brand new prophet. Welcome, Tim. Welcome, Tim. Welcome to the prophets, Tim. Poetry synopsis time. Yes, it is.

I was preparing. I'm nervous about today's. Well, it's long. Robbie. Is it long? You wrote a lot. You did it. Good for you.

Lay that limerick upon us. Okay. Here we go. For second skin. Who Kira really is gets way out of whack. Suddenly she's Cardassian and apparently an amnesiac. Gimore says he's her daddy. Entec turns out to be a baddie.

Just remember, with Garrick, you better watch your back. Wow. Bam, bam, bam. Bam. you did it yeah Rebecca didn't think amnesiac was a word

I was like that's a word it's not it's a word yeah it's a person who has amnesia yeah did you look it up did you google it as well

I googled it it's a noun it is a word yeah of course he did excellent yeah mine's much shorter let's hear

lay it on us Karen Noreese standing hard in her truth she is in fact a queen's sleuth, a survivor by her nature, to an enemy she will not cater. Ooh, nice. Thank you.

Nice, Terry. I like that. All right. Haiku time. Hi-koo. And we have some similarity, Robbie, because you have question marks in yours. I have a question mark in one of my lines of my hykoo. Okay.

That's unbelievable. You're flirting with us. Just tell us. flirting with you to both. You're a tease. I'm teasing you both. He is. Okay. My haiku here we go. Kira the Cardi

shell-shocked Leggett's daughter cries. Order subterfuge. Wow. Wow. That was very impressionistic and abstract. And we had a question mark. And it had a question mark like yours. Yes. And it was dark.

Yes, it was. I appreciate it. You're welcome. Okay. Written by Robert Hewitt. Why are we whispering? I don't know. Are we just doing ASMR right now for everyone? Yes.

Okay. This is written by Robert Hewitt Wolf. Directed by Les Landau. Yay. Uncle Les. Yes. We love Uncle Les. I just want to just read this real quick little thing for you.

Yes. Hold on a second. Yes. So Robert Hewitt Wolf's original idea for this episode. revolved around O'Brien, discovering that he was a deep cover Cardassian operative. Holy cow! Who had replaced the real O'Brien 20 years previously and had O'Brien's real memories implanted into his own mind.

This would have meant that the O'Brien we first met in Encounter at Farpoint in TNG was actually a Cardassian spy. What? Yes. Can you believe that? That's a whole different story, isn't it, guys? Totally different story. It's not even close to, I don't think it would have been as good, to be perfectly honest.

It would have been very different. He was probably gone doing a movie. Yeah. Well, no, no, no. This is what happened. So, Robert Hu, Wolf, ran into trouble with this idea when he had to try to explain how a Cardassian and a human woman, Keiko, could have had a fully human child, Molly, as their offspring. Oh, you see what I'm saying? That kid would have come out and half Cardassie.

And yes. So at this point, Wolf modified the idea so that it revolved around Kira instead of O'Brien. Thank God. We're happy about that. Yeah, lucky us. Yes. Wolf also says that he was influenced in writing this episode by the work of Philip K. Dick, especially the work Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, that book, which is what Blade Runner is based on.

Yeah, that's what Blade Runner is based on. And so this influenced Wolf. as well as the, there's a short story called We Can Remember It for You Wholesale. And this is the short story for which the film Total Recall with Arnold Schwarzenegger was based. That's another influence. Those are the main two influences for Wolf in writing this episode. Not a bad pedigree. Little Blade Runner and Total Recall influences.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think so. Definitely. Let's talk about our guest stars. We have obviously Andrew Robinson as Garrick again. Yes. Gregory, Sierra, give it up for that man as N-TEC.

What a good job there. Great job. I just felt that Gregory Sierra as N-TIC just, he played it so well in that beginning because you believed everything. He was so good and nice and slowly turning out the dial of the heat on here. Oh, my gosh. Lawrence Pressman as Technique Gamoire, who is the Legget. Oh, he was excellent, too.

Yeah, so good as the dad. And Pressman loved, love playing the role of Legate Technique Gamoire. And he's an admirer of Avery Brooks who directed him in his second appearance on D.S.9. So he gets to come back again, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, he's very exciting to know. I feel like I read something about Gamoire was maybe going to stay on the station. They thought about keeping him on the station, maybe? Did I read that somewhere?

Yeah, that was in there. they, but they actually, no, no. Oh, you mean, oh, the father? Yeah. I did not know. I feel like I read something about that, that they were maybe going to keep him on the station and decided to send him off.

Okay. Well, they were thinking of making N-Tech a recurring character before they made Garrick shoot him at the end. Yeah. We have Tony Papenfus says, Yewn. I think Yon is the individual who was supposedly in the Bajoran prison camp with. Yeah. Right. That's who that was.

The plant or whatever. Yeah. The plant. Mm-hmm. We also have Cindy Katz as Yeteppa. I think Cindy was the strange woman that was up in the balcony area looking down the beginning. Yes. Like one of those. Oh, yeah.

You remember the Shining? The two girls. That's like one of the twin girls or the two twins combined into one character. Yes. It was, yeah, it was creepy. That was very creepy. She later played Cajal on Voyager in Flesh and Blah. The seventh season episode Flesh and Blood, yes.

We also have, do we have everyone? Yes. Oh, Billy Burke. Sorry, Billy Burke. Ari. Billy Burke. Yeah. Oh, who played Ari, the guy who, yes.

The G. Q. Cardassian, really. Yeah, he was an handsome guy. Oh, my goodness. Can't hide those cheekbones, that jaw. His name is Billy Burke. He was too cute to kill. What? Billy Burke.

Billy Burke. Billy Burke was also the name of the woman that played Glenda the Good Witch and Wizard of Oz. I think that was Billy Burke. I did not know that. Okay. So I was like, Billy Burke? Glenda the Good Witches on this episode?

I missed it. I know. I blinked and missed it. This is the very first episode of DS9 to have the music composed by Mr. David Bell. So this is a little milestone or a new person composing, I suppose. Thank you, David. Yeah. We do have a couple more people.

We have Christopher Carroll, who played Gull, Benile. That is the Cardassian that was trying to inspect their ship. The Coberian, the fake Cobberian. Yes. You remember him? Yeah. Love that job there. And also Frida Thomas, who played Alenus Grimm. That is the Cardassian lady who was trying to interview Kira for... From the archives. Yeah, from the archives. That's Miss Thomas there. Yeah. And that's all of our guest stars. It's a lot of Cardassians. A lot of guest stars. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Oh, and one of my favorite co-stars, correct me if I'm wrong, Robbie, was the fish eye lens. It was some use of the fish eye.

That's a show character. Yeah, definitely. I also noticed in this episode, again, very dark lighting. And this was, you know, Marvin had gone on to our show. And so this was a new DP. This is Jonathan West. Yeah, this was Jonathan. But I did notice, like, it's a noticeable difference with Jonathan's dark.

He embraces the dark in the shadows and not always seeing the faces clearly, letting it play in silhouette in a way that I think is really interesting. So do you, are you a fan of that, though, Robbie? I thought it worked great for this episode, yeah. Yeah, I think it was like a film. Yeah. It really felt like a separate film. Yeah, I really love this episode.

Nana's incredible in it. She really is. Yeah. Very good. All right. So the first scene we've got here is at the Repliment. And we start on Dax. Yay.

I don't look very happy, though. No, you don't. No, you're not happy, but it starts with a very borderline creepy line from Quark. Why don't you tell your Uncle Quark all about it? I'm like, ah. Is this? Is this the only scene that Armand's in in this episode? I think it may be.

I think so, yeah. I don't remember seeing him in any other scene. Well, yeah, we're also missing column. Colum's not in here at all. Colum's not in the episode. And Jake's not in the Sarah Rock's not in this episode either. Well, I think this is the only scene with Quark, but. Okay.

But Quark checks in with her in his creepy way. He thinks that he stood up. He thinks that you were waiting. Which Dax does not take creepy in the least. No, you don't. You don't. She says she's waiting for Kira, who shows up moments later. She's late.

Cork and Kira discuss hollow sweets a little bit. Cork tries to convince her how awesome they are. She says, no way, no thank you. Definitely not with you. You'll regret it, which I like that little exchange. He sort of backs down. Okay, I'm out of here. Yep.

And off goes Kork. Kira tells Dax that she's a little nervous to do this, the sailing, hollow sailing of some kind. Yeah. It doesn't want to crash. Yeah. They were going sailing. Anti-grab sailing. So that's a little different than standard sailing.

It's dangerous. Yeah. It's dangerous, I think. Oh, is it? Could you get, so there's not safety protocols or, oh, so she could get hurt? Wow. Well, she's nervous. She doesn't want to crash.

And then she, Kara, gets a call. I've never seen anyone take a call in the Replomat before, but she takes a call, the Replomat. Yeah. That was just convenient. Yeah. Dax has a line, guys, before the call comes in, that right, Dax says, don't worry, you won't crash. We'll start out with an easy simulation, like sailing across the great.

And they wrote ERG, erg. It doesn't matter who you are. When you say ERG, you sound like a pirate. I was just like, couldn't they have chosen any other name other than the great Erg on New Mecca? Apparently not. No. It's a little Easter egg to pirates.

To pirates. I love Pirates. Who knew Robert Hewitt Wolf has a pirate sort of fascination and this is how it gets it in. Erg. Okay. Then the call from. Yeah, then she gets a call. She takes on a side monitor and it's a call from a woman named Olanis.

She's from the Bajorn Archive. She wants to discuss when Kira was a prisoner at the Elm Spore detention prison. So a Kardassian prison, her records come up and Kira says, oh, no, you got the wrong person. It wasn't me. Yeah. And then Alenna shows her a picture, like a file of prisoners, and it's her. It's definitely her. With long hair.

With long hair. Yeah. I guess Kira was a prisoner, but she doesn't remember it. No. And when she heads out, this is where we see the creeper, that creepy alien up in the way. It's just the way she was dressed. It wasn't it like a shining moment to everybody? It was like, ah.

Yeah, she just appeared. You just like, hi, I'm the bad guy. exactly i don't even know would you have been could you have omitted that for both of you would that kind of pan to her what if it was never there entirely just never showed that person is it important you didn't need to yeah no i mean it does set up a little bit of uh-oh there's a threat she's not aware of so when she gets kidnapped yeah but the second time we see her it's an uh-oh as well. And it's the same kind of, uh-oh. So it wasn't like it happened in threes. It was just two. I bring this up just because if you recall, Robbie, in the one episode where we had the guy

that was a Cardassian agent dressed up as a human, that was O'Brien's friend from the ship, okay? Oh, yeah. And remember how the very beginning he turns away and his face goes from smiling to drop to nothing. Then it shows him going in. Yeah. This is the one where all of us were like, hey, you just ruined it for us. You really show this that too quickly. So this show, the image, the pan to this weirdo woman up in the balcony, is that similar to what happened in that other episode for you too, or you're okay with it? Because I feel like now you're-

To me, the first time that you're talking about when O'Brien's friend turns out to be a bad guy, that was unnecessary information because I don't know why we needed to, we should have believed that it was. No, it was bad information because it gave us telegraphed too much information. Way too much. Yeah. And then we had no mystery to solve. It was like, oh, well, he did it.

He's the bad guy. And now how are you going to prove that he's the bad guy is all we're sitting there? But it took us out of taking the ride of discovery. Okay. So this did not take you out of the ride of this episode then. No. No, because she was not pretending to be good or she was clearly. Right. She didn't say anything or do anything, except for we see her. That's it.

She's a creeper. Yeah, it was ominous. It was ominous. And she was by herself. Nobody was passing by, really. It was sort of just like telegraphing. Not a good thing. Yeah. And let's just give it up for David Bell with his music score. He definitely put the tension there with all the background music. Yeah, it was a good school. I didn't, the best part about his score, I didn't know that this was his first time. And it felt. like a typical, it fit right in, I guess is what I'm saying, which is good. It should. It shouldn't feel different. It shouldn't feel like it stands out too much. Yeah. Okay. We go to the security office next. Odo thinks Kira just doesn't remember. He said it was 10 years ago. You know, you probably just don't remember. She's like, I would remember if I was in prison. Yeah. And she remembers every detail of this winter. She talks about having no cells for their phasers, very little food. They were hiding.

caves. So she remembers that winter and she was not in prison. It was a rough winter for her. Yeah. And Odo suggests, well, maybe you can talk to some of the inmates that were there. Maybe they'll remember something that'll remind you. So we go to Ops and she's made a call to one of her cellmates. Supposed cellmates. He seems very sincere though. I bought a great performance. Like he didn't seem like he was lying. I totally thought Kira's got the memory problem, not this guy. Right. Yeah, he remembers her. He thought that maybe they had dragged her out of there and killed her or something. So he's glad to see she's alive. Seems very friendly, very helpful. There you go. She's, uh, she is very confused because this guy remembers

her, but she doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. It goes off to a corridor. She's walking to jump on a ship, a runabout, I guess, or a transport ship, back to Bejor. She's going to find the truth about this and Cisco's there to send her off. They have a very nice warm moment, short little scene, but yeah, seems very warm and very good chemistry. He's very supportive. Very supportive. He has her back. Wait, so Cisco escorts her to the airlock? Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. Cisco doesn't see creepy lady at all in this? No, because he turns around and leaves and she passes. It's the opposite direction or yeah, either passes or he goes in another direction. I can't remember. Okay, I must have blinked on this part.

So thank you. Well, if I were Cisco, I would have seen that lady and gone, that's a creeper. Because she would have seen. But she also looked like just another, okay, she's just another passenger. If we hadn't seen her standing up on the promenade second level, we wouldn't have known. We would not have maybe, maybe that's why they had to put it in. So it indicated more. Otherwise, it was just look at another passenger getting on.

Okay. So then that pan was needed earlier then. Okay. Definitely makes her, it confirms that she's a creeper. Yeah. Maybe she's the president of the Kirinari's fan club. We go to the Repliment next. Bashir's, you know, wandering in, looking for Garrick, I guess.

Because he says, I went by your shop and it was closed. So it sounds like Bashir's kind of looking for him. Like, what's up with Gare? Why is his shop clothes? He finds them in the replemate. Garrick says nobody's buying any clothes right now because of the threat of the dominion, scaring everybody off, scaring all my customers off, starting to sound like quirk a little bit.

He's allowed. He's a business owner. Exactly. Small business man. Yeah. And we still don't know if he's a spy or not. Yeah. Garrick?

Is was. Could be. He's still a mystery man. That's for sure. Yep. Yes. Yes. As he remains.

I do like this episode, though, in sort of peeling back another layer for his character, for sure. A hundred percent. A lot of new stuff happens. Bashir says that his trip to Clystron 4 was incredible, that he just got back from this trip. And Garrick does get a little jealous there. He says, I miss traveling. But space is so dangerous now. And Bashir says, do you think if you travel that you would be killed by the Cardassians?

Garrick sort of blows it off. Oh, you have such a vivid imagination. So more of Garrick's confusing, contradictory comments that he has. Yes. My dear doctor, you have such a vivid imagination. I love Garrick. That's a pretty good, you were doing an impersonation. Oh, thank you.

Yeah. Okay. I'm just going to say it right now. I could be Team Garrick at some point. I feel it. Oh, yes. Right? Yeah.

Well, I'm definitely team Andy. Yes. Yeah. We're all team. As far as guest stars are concerned. But a guy. We're team. Yeah.

Okay. So next scene. We go to ops. Cisco gets a call from the Archives Lady. Archives lady's like, where's Kira? She's supposed to come here. She's disappeared. Yeah.

Cisd her creepy fan club president has kidnapped her. That's why, clearly. And I'm concerned, too. And Dax comes over, very concerned. Nice, nice move forward. there into the shot. I had to find my light. Yes.

The truth is always what's... That's really true. It is true. It is true. You know what she just said. When you're acting a scene, you're not just thinking about your lines and your feelings and all that. You're looking down for tape on the floor.

Yep. So that you're standing on the right mark. You're looking at where the lights are so you don't shadow yourself. Or you're feeling the light. But this is where your peripheral. vision is most important. Yes. Because you can't, you can't just look down at it. You have to kind of glance as you're approaching it. Yeah. So that's where rehearsal is really important. Even if it's for, at least I used to do this, take steps and do my lines just to make sure I got the spot. Of course, the more

practice you get, the more you do it. Yeah. The more it's second nature, you don't have to think about it. Yeah. I worked with, in a daytime soap opera, I worked with an actor named James Mitchell, who was phenomenal, phenomenal older actor, real veteran of a million things. And he had this technique. He would, often his scenes were in his house or in his office on the soap. And so he'd lay crops of mail, like bills and letters and things like that. He'd lay them around on the set where he could write his lines down the lines that you know just cues yeah and and for everybody soaps you get a new script every day every day one i've never done one but i auditioned for one and new people that were on them that's a hard job a lot of changes it's a lot of work last minute

changes too but james mitchell would go over he'd pick up the mail and he'd get his cue but it also gave him a reason to look down so he could see where his mark was oh god that's brilliant that And so he pretend to be like sorting through the mail, but he'd be able to glance down at the mark and see his cue and not sit there with a, you know, deer in the headlights look on his face. He was great. So that's advice for all actors out there to really use some business that helps you pick up props where you can look down and see your mark. That's great. Yeah. I love it.

Yeah. James Mitchell. Smart man. So Kira's disappeared. We just found out. And we found out that Dax is very concerned. That's important. Yes, I am.

Yes, because she had already prepaid for her hollow sailing activity, and she could lose. There's no refunds on that. I just reschedule. Oh, you can reschedule? Well, see, this is where it pays to be kind to quark. You have the capability to reschedule as Dax, but not Kira. Kira doesn't get a reschedule. Well, she doesn't get a range check coupon.

No, no, rain check coupons. Nope. So Dax is very concerned about losing her deposit. Anyway, my word. We go to Ileana's room, so this is, we'll call it Ileana's room because it's who we learn they think here it is, is this woman, Ileana. And this scene starts out darker than any other scene we've seen. That's what I was talking about. My goodness, it's like in a cave. Yeah.

But it's, it's appropriate for the story. It's supposed to be. And a gorgeous set. Oh yeah beautiful gorgeous set just super high end you can tell she's from a very or she's in a very wealthy place from a family of status. Yes it's definitely not a jail cell no it's not a hovel it's like a mansion that she lives in well this scene is basically the reveal of Nana in the makeup so that's one reason it was so dark so that we wouldn't see her until she sits up into the light and then you see

all that yeah and then looks in the mirror and she looks gorgeous i mean she looks gorgeous with the nose but somehow with her dark eyes like yeah just like ink yeah ink black her eyes like so it's just it was stunning yeah she could pull off the makeup yeah she could definitely pull it up although i will say i did notice i don't know if it was this scene but there's one scene where the prosthetics on her neck the edge was not blended and you could definitely see where the aesthetic was actually several yeah some makeup boo-boos in this but there are a lot of people doing the makeup so it's weird like when I first saw her the makeup is so like you're like oh my god so intense it's intense but I saw like a really for some reason it's just so non-sequitur but a pretty peacock face like to me she was a

beautiful bird the way she wanted just something about her just was very... Very regal. Yeah, a regal bird, basically. Yeah. They wake her up. I like peacock for her. They hypospray her awake.

Yep. So clearly she's been sedated. They hypospray her awake. She doesn't know where she is. She looks up, sees herself, and we see that she's Cardassian in the scene. At first I thought it was so dark in there. I thought it was like a jail cell.

But you're right. Once we got more light in the room, pulled back, you see this luxurious apart. or whatever. I have a question for both of you. Yes. When Kira wakes up, she says, where am I? Then there's a line from Itepa.

So creepy, creepy alien girl has a line here? Oh, she had a line. It's all right. You're safe? Do you guys even recall her speaking? I remember somebody, but I didn't put together it was her. That it's her then. No.

Okay. Well, that was her. I think we cut away to a commercial there. We come back to the same spot. Kira is just beside herself. Yeah. She doesn't understand what's happening. We meet N-Tech in the scene, the doctor, who explains that she was a Cardassian undercover operative.

She infiltrated the resistance, the Bajoran resistance, and now he's given her medication to reverse her memory loss and gives her a recorded statement, gives her this, like, file. He says, you know, if you don't believe me, just look at this. It's a personal statement you recorded before you were sent to Bejor. Just watch it. it'll explain everything. And if you have questions, just ask me. So, yeah, she's got a whole story that she's unaware of and just can't believe it. She's beside herself.

Yeah. It's absurd. And she's enraged. Yeah. You know, just because they changed her appearance doesn't mean they're ever going to convince her she's a Cardassian. And she says as much. Yeah.

I was also thinking when he hands her the recorded statement. All of a sudden, my mind went to AI and how they can have people, like, you know, video clips of people saying things that they never said because AI can mimic their voice can mimic their look. So I feel like, if I were her, I'd be like, I don't believe this recorded statement. I don't believe any of this. Like, you guys could AI all this. And I wouldn't know. But then we wouldn't have a story. True.

And we didn't have AI back then. No, not like that. And they wrote this episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've got new technologies now that these writers couldn't even imagine, I don't think, back then. Yeah, it's also of note that this is the second time that we hear of the Obsidian Order, this very, very selective and secretive organization, basically their CIA, I guess. And I, honestly, I kept thinking, man, I could watch a whole movie, or I could watch a whole series on, like a spin-off on the Obsidian Order itself.

City of Order. There's so much stuff going on there. It's just so much intrigue and subterfuge. It's just scared. And Garrick was a part of this, right? Yeah. Yeah. Can you see that?

I mean, I think, 100%. I think that'd be amazing. That'll be our next podcast. We'll do the Delta Flyers. We can all be Cardassians. Yes. We'll all be Cardassian spots. Why not?

And then it turns out that this isn't really a podcast. This is we're really Cardassians who made it look like humans. Human beings. And we're invading Earth. Yes. This is great. Yes. So the Kardashians basically put us on Earth as human actors to go on to Star Trek to infiltrate as humans. But in reality, we're a Cardassian. So we're trying to, yeah.

This is genius. It's amazing. This is a genius idea. I want to be a Cardassian now. I want to play a bad girl. The whole Star Trek franchise is a cover for an obsidian order. Yes. This is great. The whole Star Trek franchise is an obsidian order master plan, Robbie? You heard it here, folks, first time, right here on the Delta Flyer. Who were the guys for the Nazis that were like there? The SS?

The SS. That's what it was making me think of. And I thought, hey, guys, it's very similar because the SS, this is the O-O. It's two words. See, in order. You see, I don't think that's an accident. I don't think so either. It's not a coincidence.

It's all part of the obsidian order plan. Very interesting. Okay, so where are we now, guys? Well, we go to the wardroom next, which I'm happy to see the ward room, because this is a new set this season. Yes. This conference room, I would call it a conference room, but I like the wardroom. It's nice. Yeah, we keep it.

Are you happy to know? Is that all right if I spoiled that thing? I think you told us that or Armin told us that. We have to keep the word room. Yeah, yeah. Spoiler. Well, we're in the ward room. Cisco Dax and Odoer trying to figure out.

where Kira disappeared to, and they're very worried she might be dead. Basically, it's a worry scene. Yeah, and the worry comes from because they have some residual electrostatic charges that they have detected. So they think, oh, maybe it's a beam out. But then Dax are a science officer, or brilliant science officer. After Odeleaves. Yes, after Ovalo Leaves.

Dax is the one that tells Cisco, hey, those residual charges, they could have been left by a disruptor or a phaser that is set on kill. So now we think she may be dead. She may have died. We don't know. And it was nice that Cisco said, I know, instead of, thank you, Captain Obvious. Yes. Yes.

It was nice of him not to. Wasn't it? It was kind. Not to call you out. We go to the Cardassian surface of the planet. Yeah. This is a shot I think we saw in an earlier episode. It felt like.

We did. It's a reuse of that. Exactly. Good call on that one. Although they actually extended it longer than, they, they started a little bit later and extended it a little bit longer. So it looks a little bit different. The guy on the screen that's talking, the 1984 George Orwell type of message, that message is different. And the two people start off in a different orientation that are kind of watching it and that

goes on a little further. So it's a little bit different, but it's still, they reuse that. It felt really familiar like we saw it on the other episode. A prior episode, yes. And I've done that too with establishing shots or things like this where you don't have the money to go shoot a new shot or create a new shot. So you just take an old library from a different episode. You steal it. You steal it because it's free. What was the name of that episode? The one where he's in jail when O'Brien's in jail and the Cardassia and that's the name. That's the one we see it on. Yeah. It's like a stock shot. Yeah, it feels like a stock shot. And sometimes you'll take those stock shots to make them different and you'll flip the negative. So you'll turn it around. So it's the

opposite just to make it look a little different. They could have done that on this one. They could have flipped it. And then it would have felt like a different angle. or something. Well, Robbie, is this like painted? Is this one of those kind of things? It's like a glass. It's probably a matte. Yeah, there's a matte element to it. There's a burn in the screen. There's a green screen for the guys in the foreground, the people standing. So it's a layered. Yeah, that's why it would have been expensive to do it again. So they already paid for it. Just to use it. Exactly. And now we're in Iliano's room. Oh, yes. Now we're back in a room. She goes over to the window and kind of puts her hand up and there's a force field

there. So she realizes she is trapped in here or being held. And then she picks up the data rod considering looking at her pre-recorded message. But the doorbell rings and it's N-tech. Is this the one though when the doorbell rings and then she puts down the rod and then she goes over to the couch and kind of, you know, pulls herself into. Yes. Yes. She's kind of brooding, Yeah, and then she says enter, and that's when Entec enters. Entec enters. Look at that, okay. Entec enters.

Another guy, we don't know who it is yet, but it turns out his name is Gamor. Yep. He lives here. He's a legate. He's snarky, too. I don't appreciate being kept waiting in my own house, so now we know. Clearly the status, yes, he's an important person. Big time.

Entec introduces Gamore as her father. Yeah. She does not like this because she says, my father died fighting Cardassians. Yeah. So she's still, she's not convinced about their story. She's not convinced this is her father.

But Camor says, can we have a moment? Low privacy. And he's very tender here. He says how much he missed her. Yeah. But she doesn't want to hear it. She's angry still.

I'm not your daughter. And he's very patient. He says you'll remember in time. Would you guys say Leggett is the same as Senator? maybe would that be the correct yeah probably a close approximation in the senate in the united states in the u.s senate or maybe a yeah parliamentarian or something was it spelled l-e-g-a-te-e-legged um i do like the name iliana as well a member of the clergy especially a cardinal representing the pope oh so kind of a religious reference there too yeah yeah

I just like Leggett, because I think of Legos. And I like Legos. I think of Lega Lam when I hear that, actually. Oh, my word. Legos are fun. Legos are fun. Lamb can be fun as well. Are you the me?

Are you de me? She's speaking Spanish to everyone now. That's her secret way. All right. Well, he says, take your time. Yeah. Until you remember, just make yourself at home, consider yourself a guest, an honored guest. So he's being very, very kind and very gentle.

Very fatherly. Very fatherly, yeah. Tender. We go back to the station for the next scene, and I have a big question here. So Bashir's turning off the lights, he's putting things away. This is the hospital. Like, you don't close the hospital down. What the heck is he doing shutting down the infirmary?

Well, he doesn't need to use all of that energy, and he can go to his quarters, and if there's an emergency, he can pop back into the... I mean, I guess... Or if there's an emergency, you can make a house call. He can make a house call. He can go. We've already set up several times where we've walked in there and it's been dark. Oh, have we? Yeah.

Okay. So, Robbie, it has just like deli hours, basically. Yeah, it's like bankers. It's like a bank. It's like bankers hours. Yeah. I just felt like there should be like a nurse or... a nurse practitioner or somebody in there.

That's on call. First practitioner. See it. See it tomorrow. I'll call you if there's an emergency doc. Good night. Yeah. Like, you wouldn't shut this place down.

No. No. Yeah. Just, you know, have Morn hang out there. Have Morn be the nurse. He could be the, Morn could be a medical person. No, there's just all kinds of things wrong with more.

Wrong with that idea. Yes. Isn't your character the one that said you love how his eyebrows stick those, those few little hairs come out of his? My character. I'm sorry, your character. Isn't your character the one that said nice? Yeah, the wiry hairs are sexy or some crazy like that.

Yes. Yes, no, but I would not want mourn. Born as your nurse. All right. To examine you. No. No. I would not want mourn to examine me.

A medical ensign. Yes. A medical ensign in there would be appropriate. But it wouldn't set up that we're going. And really, why not just go with the flow? Okay, I'll go with the flow. Robbie, how about this? Shutting down the hospital.

What if this, you walk into the infirmary when it's closed, and the minute it senses someone's there, a hologram of Bashir appears saying, hi, we're closed right now. But you can reach me in my orders if you need emergencies. That makes sense. Maybe there's a holographic doctor program like we have on our ship. Yeah. We just never meet that person. Never meet that person.

Okay. All right. So he's closing up. He's very tired, by the way. He's like, he's walking so. slowly from one station to the other, clearly he's exhausted. It's been a tough day. But Garrick meets him at the door, says he has great news about Major Kira.

And that's it. It's a quick scene, except for Bishir's very slow walking. Yes. I was like, come on, dude. Move. Walk a little faster. It was very slow. Was there a dolly in front of him that he couldn't walk into?

Was that part of that issue? I don't know. There's another scene later on with Kira. he was acting tired by walking extra slow okay it was it was a little extra um we go to gomore's home now i'm not going to call it iliana's room anymore okay we're in the we're in the palatial gomor home and she's searching for surveillance device she's looking under desk she's looking for any kind of wiretaps or you know cameras yeah gomor arrives with some food he's made her some Bajorn Hasparat. He does mention in the scene, he's a member of the Central Command, so he's a

big wig. She does notice the sculpture on his desk, and Gamoire gets very sentimental about it. He says, you know, you carved that for me when I was promoted to Leggett and says she was a great artist and that she was also very stubborn like her mother. Here it gets mad when he mentions the mother because she says, my mother died of malnutrition on Bejor when I was three. Very sad. moment. I want to take us just two lines back. There's something really nice that Gimore says about this really is a tell about the kind of human being, or the kind of Cardassian he is, pardon me. But that he says she was determined to join the order and thought it was her duty, but personally

he thought that Cardassia needed more artists. Yeah, I know. I love that. Yeah, that was very much more a sympathizing point of view and gentle. A sensitive perspective, like, as opposed to just being a military guy, he really values the creative side of their culture and that being a Cardassian is more than just being a military person. Yeah, and his tenderness is not what we've seen in Cardassians. No. As a personality trait.

Yeah. We also get a little bit more insight into the chain of command in Cardassia. We realize that the central command really is kind of untouchable. Because he says the only reason why the surveillance devices would be turned on would be from my request only. I have the power. So Obsidian Order is definitely below. Yeah, they definitely answer to Central Command. Although in this episode we see that the Obsidian Order definitely has higher ambitions

to be more powerful than the Central Command as well. Well, he does say he regrets letting her join the Subsidian Order Mission. He didn't want her to do it. And Kira, basically, at the end of the scene, she's like, you know what? Your stories are great. Everything, you know, sounds really good, but I don't believe a word you guys are telling me. And he apologizes, I think, at the end. He said, I just want you to know, I'm sorry what he says.

That's the end of the scene. It's a powerful scene, though. It seems like a good guy. Yeah, he does. But she's not buying it. No, not yet. Meanwhile. Meanwhile, back in the security office, they're talking to Garrick.

Sisko's there, Odo's there. Garrick says he's told them everything that Kira is being held by the Obsidian Order. And Cisco's like, all right, well, the three of us are going to go to Cardassia. We're going to go find her. And Garrick panics in the scene. It's like, no, no, I can't go. And Cisco's, well, you know, the Bajorans have been saying maybe you're not the right guy for us here. So I could put in a good word for you or not.

It's up to you. So he blackmails in the scene, basically. I like at the end when Garrick admits that if anything dangerous starts to happen, I'm going to abandon you. And Cisco says, that's the first honest thing you've ever said to me. The first completely honest thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you've ever said to me. Great line.

Yeah. But they're going to, Cisco's ideas, they're going to go undercover, they're going to have false documents, they're going to reconfigure their shield harmonics so that the defiant doesn't look like the warship. It'll just look like a Cabarian freighter. So they've got this whole undercover plan, but sounds dangerous. And I don't blame Garrick for being nervous. I wouldn't want to go on this mission. I only do because I get to fly the defiant. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I have my priority straight. Yes, you do. Well, we go back to Gimore's house, the Palatians. home of the Gamore family. Entek's there. He wants answers. You know, he says he can give her injections to help her regain her memory. Gamor says the injections may not even work. And Entec just wants to ask a few questions about what she knows.

Gmour tells Kira that he'll be nearby if she's concerned. So this is where we start to sort of feel like, oh, this guy, Ntech, who seems so nice in the beginning, he's got an agenda. He wants to talk about something. and that he's not as soft and nice as Gamoire as the guy who's her dad. Yeah, not at all. Yeah. And then also, this is like her second set of injections because he gave her one like right at the beginning, right?

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's just not working. It's not getting them what they want. And we know why. Yes, exactly. Gamor says he'll stand by. He'll be close if she needs them.

And there's a little time dissolve here. Ntech is questioning Kira, but she just plays games. She's not going to tell him anything. That's our girl. Yep. She's avoiding answering anything, giving him a lot of, she's playing games with them, basically. But this is where Ntech says, all right, if you don't believe me, if you're not going to cooperate, I'll prove it to you. And he calls for this exhibit, S1983, send it in here immediately.

Oh, this is harsh. Yeah, this is so harsh. so he beams in this gurney and it's got a dead pejoran and kira they pull back the the sheet over the body and kira sees herself kira yeah kira as a pejoran yeah i got i got to say because i haven't seen further episodes i at this point i'm thinking my god this is insane she really is kardassi i was i was starting to buy it hook line and sinker at this point so yeah i i will say one of my challenges with this episode. I like this episode, but

one of them was tracking kind of Kira's journey, and I felt like she there was enough clues in here that what they're saying is true. I wish that Hira had started to believe it. I would have liked for her to have been convinced that this

is true. Oh, you don't think she never believed? You don't think she ever believed it then, Robbie? I feel like she kept resisting it. Like, even these moments when she looked at herself, she seemed very moved, but then in the next moment, she's like, I still don't, I don't. Oh, like came out of it too quickly? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, but at the end, I feel like when she does break down and cry, that she does believe it at that point, when he's holding her and says, look, I'm going to get you out of here. Do you remember that when she finally, it's not here? But that's coming up, right? That's coming up. Not yet. But, but, but yes, she's got enough information.

I wish the script had given her the opportunity to sort of go, wow, I totally buy this now. I can't believe it. To process it. Tell me more. Yeah. I wish she had kind of, they had convinced her somehow. Okay. I think that still could have worked with the obsidian order trying to set up this trap to get really ultimately Gamoire.

But that's what they're trying to, they're trying to use Kira to take him down ultimately, we find out. Right. But I think it would have helped if she had gone. You guys are getting ahead of the story. I know. I'm sorry. Okay. Spoiler alert.

Okay. No, no alerts. Let's just. Red alert, red alert, ding, dang, ding, dang, ding, ding, ding, dong, bing bong. She sees herself, and then later on, so another commercial break, we come back. She's starting to maybe believe it, I felt like here. Ntech reminds her when she fired it a soldier, but she ended up killing a haricat, I think, he says. A mother haricat, nursing.

Mother haricat, right? And she can't believe it. She's like, I never told anyone about that. So she's she's starting to believe it here. I just wish there had been more of it. Anyway, she's starting to believe it, the story that she never told anyone about killing a cat. Ntec says if he wanted to force the information he wants out of her, he could. He could force it, but he doesn't want to do that.

So he's kind of threatening torture, it sounds like in the scene. Yeah, he is. Yeah. But he does say that the Hara Cat story was implanted in her memories. Like, it didn't really happen. So that was in that monologue. Oh, really? Yeah.

I know about it because we place that story in your memories, Ileana, just like we gave you every other memory you have that line, that huge-ass monologue. Oh, yeah. He's got the big speech. Yeah, yeah. So they're not doing a great job of brainwashing her at all. Yeah, because if you say, oh, this thing that I mentioned that was a secret story, we implanted, it doesn't prove anything, whereas I wish they had proven to her that you really are Cardassian

and she had embraced it somehow. Like that would have been, to me, a more interesting character story. Whereas I feel like the whole time she kept resisting, resisting. Anyway, I won't get ahead of it. But that's my one... You already got ahead of it.

He also, in this scene, and at the end, he does say, you were one of my best students. And the way that that guest actor played that, he did play that with emotion. Like he was getting teary-eyed about this. you know and he's like he cared about you're like super cared about her watch the recording think about what i was kind of afraid that he was going to reveal that he was like her fiancee right there was just that

kind of moment of like oh god no she will not be able to handle this at all and tech goes iliana you and i have a love child we actually had one one son yeah we have a whole yeah we have two sons and a daughter that you don't know about but okay and watch Kira implode. Yes, exactly. What? Exactly. We do come back after this scene from another commercial break, I think.

We come back. She's using the pad to try to disable the force field and open up the window. She hacks the window open. And then Gamoire, her dad, walks in and says, you know, you tripped the silent alarm. So I knew you were trying to escape. And he says, I want to help you. I'm here to help you. And he begs her to walk.

watch that recording of herself, which she finally does. And it looks like here, it's very convincing. Maybe this is Garrett where you were going like, she really is Cardassi. That's what I wanted her to believe. Like, I wanted her to articulate it and embrace it. Yeah. And again, I felt like she played it in nonverbal. I mean, just she acted.

I just wanted verbal. I know you want verbal. I know you want words, Robbie. I want words. I'm okay. Speaches. I want her to almost like. go to the other side and be against Cisco and everybody like that would get brainwashed but

then that would have to be a two-parter there just isn't enough time you're right Terry there's not enough time yeah but Robbie right that would have been great Robbie your head isn't a two-parter possibly a three-parter possibly a whole spin-off series probably a whole season worth of here at the Cardassian yeah maybe and we could call her Casey yeah Casey yeah or But it's called Keeping Up with the Cardassians. Oh, no, you went too far. All right. So she does put it in the console.

She watches herself talking about going on this mission and she's going to have surgery and look, you know, no longer look like a Cardassian. She's going to have the surgery to look like a Bajoran and they have to stop the Bajorans and everything lines up. This whole speech lines up with what she's been told. Yes. Question for both of you. Is this speech, do you believe this to be the real footage from the real daughter, Ileana, that they used to show her? Or is this doctored? It's a doctored. It's AI. It's AI. Like, that's not her body. Yeah. You know, they're bad. They could have taken a whole other Kardashian and done all this to them. Yes, I agree. But I'm just saying her father says, please check out the thing. So I feel like he also. Oh, you know what I'm saying? This is the real, this is the real, real thing. Because the dad wouldn't have said, please check out the thing. DeMore wouldn't have said that.

Does that make sense, Robbie? So this is not doctor. I guess so. Yeah, because the dad, you're right. The dad is pushing this on the daughter. Please watch what Entech gave you. Please, because he already knows that Entech and him have been talking. That makes 100% sense.

You have to play it that way. Yeah, you need for it to have been really. The real deal. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. So wait. Now my head's exploding.

Because if Gamoor, the dad, looks at Nana Visitor as a Cardassian and says, you look just like my daughter, then he, that's true. He had a daughter. And he hasn't seen her for 10 years. Yes. His daughter is really undercover, deep, deep undercover. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because he's all, dad's telling the truth.

It's the other guy, the obsidian guy who's made all the. Yes. But if dad says, please look at the file from. Entec, right? Yes, but our bad guy knows that they've kidnapped Kira because she looks so much like Ileana. That they made her even more, yeah, Kodassian, exactly. She's the perfect candidate for this.

Okay, so we're back on the bridge of the Defiant next. Cisco is in his undercover look. He's got civilian clothes on. Odo drags Garrett onto the bridge of the Defiant says, Garrick's been, did I say Garrett? You did say Garrett? Yeah. Odo drag me, which is weird.

I was like, why is God on the bridge? Garrick. Did you, can I just make a quick comment? Did you see the undercover civilian clothing that Cisco's wearing? Did it remind you of what O'Brien wore, what he went on on vacation, that's very similar. Dancing with the Stars kind of ensemble. I just, yeah.

Well, Collins was a little more, O'Brien was a little more fancy. It was a bright blue shirt And you're right You're right And Cisco's was way more low key There's a little more pedestrian looking Okay We got it.

Yeah, a little more pejorin wear Yes, yes, yes, it was Bjorin wear Well, Odo Odo drags Garrick Garrick in the Cardassian He's been snooping around the main phaser banks He says I was just stretching my legs

I love Garrick always has He always has an answer for everything Oh, and so many one liners in this episode from from garrick it reminded me of the original like james bond like roger more james bond with those little one-line tags i just love them so much yeah but um he comes in and then dach suddenly sees two galore galore class warships cardassian worships approaching they use the communications hollow filter to talk to them so i guess they've programmed in almost like on on on Zoom. When you put those filters on, you get like a rabbit face or, you know, different

filters. This was the Star Trek version. It was very cool. It was very cool. Cisco looks like a Coberian captain. They're supposed to be a Coberian freighter. They've redone all of their, I guess, you know, signals that if anybody scans them, they're going to look like a freighter. If they call them, he's going to have a filter on, look like the Coberian. Just to add right here, that shot when he's doing the hollow filter as a Coberian captain, that is stock footage from the original Coberian captain from the episode duet. So Avery Brooks actually lip synced the very first sentence of, I am the Coberian captain, blah, blah, blah, is lip syncing of that actor.

And the actor was saying something else? No, the actor was saying, the actor, that footage of him saying, I am, I am blah, blah, blah, the Coberian captain. That is basically Avery Brooks dubbing his voice into that, the exact same words as that guy or stock footage. That's all. Got it, got it, got it, got it. It's cool, though.

It was very cool. But Norman Lang, the original actor in the makeup, was not credited in this episode. Could he have been litigious in this instance, Robbie? Yeah, he probably could have. If he even knew about it. Yeah, he could have called the union and said, Hey, I did a thing where I said lines and then they dubbed me, but I said the lines. Yeah, it's still me.

I had to act. But, you know, in all fairness, that last season of Deep Space Nine, they contacted me every time they wanted to use a clip. Did they? I always said yes. That's fair amount. Yeah. So, I mean, that's one of the reasons. Well, we'll talk more about that later.

But I would imagine they would have reached out about the clip. And even if they didn't give them credit. I'm sure they paid him for the clip. Okay, good. Let's hope so. Good. That would be great. Yeah.

Well, on the bridge, I guess the bridge of the of the defiant is where Cisco's talking from with his filter on. Yeah. This guy, banille. Benile. Benile, Benile, Benile, Tamil, benile, tomato, tomato. Go banal. Go banal. Go banal.

Go banal. Gulbenil, he's pretty aggressive here. He's like, prepare to be boarded. They're heading towards us. This guy doesn't believe them and wants to look at what they're carrying because doesn't he say something about the marquee. Yeah, the maquis activity is up at Maris in this sector. So they are ordered by the Central Command to inspect all incoming ships.

And then Cisco does use that, that. you know, Golbenil, when he comes back on, he says, our terranium is urgently needed on Cardassia. I would hate for you to have to explain why it was delayed. And that is an argument that's been used in a prior episode. It doesn't work. The guy still wants to come on board. So that's when Garrick says, drop this filter thing.

Let me talk to him. I can get us out of this. If you let me talk to him, Cisco thinks about it. He's like, okay, stand by. Garrick pops up on the screen, tells Goldbenil, angrily tells him that this is an alpha red priority mission with a he gives them a verification code he says stand down erase all records of this encounter speak of it to no one benille does look up this verification code seems legit it works benil apologizes

and then garrick's explanation is well it was just something that i overheard heming someone's trousers classic garrick last. Oh, man. Team Garrick. Team Garrick. It worked. He gets them off of this inspection. And so they continue on their undercover mission on their way. Yeah. And he can't, he's threatened him. Don't speak of this to anybody. So they're still, they're still safe in this cover. Back to Ileana's room. N-Tech is asking her questions. He's asking about Starfleet ships, Starfleet, you know, numbers. How many ships? What are the ships? And she's kind of, she's kind of cracking a little bit. She's, she seems like, she's kind of saying, I don't know.

She seems confused to me in the scene. And you know how I was reading it too? She's at her wits end. How the hell does she get out of this? Yeah. This is insanity. And she knows who she is, but she's stuck in all of this Cardassian plastic surgery. Yeah.

And the stories and the video she saw. Yeah. No one's here to help her. She's losing. it. Also, very, I mean, the other huge thing is she has not eaten. Remember this. She turned down that Bajoran food. So there's no food in her either. So she's not. She's a bird. Yeah. She's a bird. And isn't Entec like over her shoulder and she's just kind of staring off like yeah. Like she's almost just a PTSD. Oh, it's so upsetting. Yeah. Yeah. And Tech's getting mad.

He's starting to get very frustrated with her. And Gimore comes in, tells him, stand down. Stop. Stop, drilling her with all these questions. They get into an argument. Same a rattling. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Gamor kind of pulls the central command card, I think, in the scene.

He sure does. Intech does stand down. He relents. Says that he will see her next time at the Obsidian Order's facilities. So that's definitely threatening. That's a threat. Yeah, that's bad. Yeah.

Yeah. And this is where Gimore. is holding her. She's been, she's just been like staring into space. He says, I will protect you. I'll get you off of Cardassia.

Sorry, Rob, but she goes over to the mirror and stares at herself and that's when she's, oh, yeah. Yeah, she hits the, she smashes the mirror. Yeah, yeah.

Then she falls to the ground. And she falls to the ground into his lap, sort of, right? Doesn't he hold her? Yeah. He holds her like a dad would. Yeah. It's very sad.

He's kind of protect her. And she doesn't know why she says why why would you do this why would you get me off cardassian he says because you're my daughter yeah there's nothing i wouldn't do for you yeah very sweet even if it means losing you again yeah that was so generous and sweet yeah yeah everyone wants really cares for dad yes he's a good daddy he is even if he's a cardassian yeah yeah We come back into Gimore's home a little later. Kira's looking at the carving again.

Gimore enters. And he's got a gift for her. He's got his mother's, her mother's bracelet. Yeah. And she initially is like, oh, I can't take this. I can't possibly, you know. He says, no, there's no arguing. I can be as stubborn as you.

Runs in the family. That part of Kira fits this Ileana person, the stubbornness for sure. Yeah. This is the time where Ari, Ari, the GQ Cardassian himself, the Cardassian arrives, and he is the person that's going to help get her off of Cardassia. But it's interesting because now this is where Keir learns that Gimore, her Cardassian father, is a dissident. He's somebody who doesn't agree with the way Cardassia is sort of doing their business. And Ari is a member of this underground group as well, I'm guessing. Yeah, but she not only, Kara not only realizes that they're dissidents, but she goes, wait a minute, if you're dissidents, then maybe all of this with me is to get it you.

Yes. Our queen sleuth. Yes. She kind of figures it all out here because if they suspect him of being a dissident, they're going to have to get him to betray himself. She kind of puts the whole plan all out there. She puts it all together. It's kind of like she channeled Dax, because Dax always knows what's, what's up. So she did a Dax thing.

Well, that was nice of you. Yeah, you're welcome. Yeah, if they catch him helping her, they set him up, basically corner him to, because they know how much he loves his daughter. Right. If they can set him up to help her, then they can take him down. Yeah. And that's when N-Tech enters with two guards.

Doesn't he walk in and say like very, yeah, he says, very astute. He overheard all that. Very astute major. You couldn't have done any better if you were one of us. So he's impressed with her skills. Yes. Yes, with her sleuthing. They kill Ari right away.

Or is he stunned? Do you think he's dead? Because he falls down. He didn't get vaporized. You know what I'm saying? That's going to happen in a minute. But yeah, maybe he's still alive. Right.

But N-Tex very happy, feels like he's in control, says this is going to bring down the whole dissonant movement. that's when Cisco and Garrick arrive they toss a bag it's just Cisco and Garrick yeah with a bag and they toss the bag over behind N-Tech you're near N-Tech or something and then the bag morphs into Odo very clever why a bag though I don't know could have been anything it could have been a ball it could have been a right a bean bag is all you need just something small stop sorry it's a bag it's a bag. And they went in, well, they couldn't have been undetected, but maybe Garrett came through

as sort of the liaison. It's like an obsidian. Yeah, he probably had some info to help him get there. Does that help at all? Or maybe they said, oh, we're here with our bag to take the trash out. We're going to put all the, there were the trash man. We're going to put the trash in the bag. That's why the bag, it had to be a bag. We're Cardassian genitorial services. It's believable. Okay, fine.

Oh, my word. I believe it. I believe it. You know what? This is beyond the nitpick. This is, you don't have anything to complain about. I am channeling. I am channeling Jason Okin.

I am channeling Jason Okin. I'm allowed to do that. He's going to talk fish eye lenses. That's all I have to say. Probably. Probably. Well, the bag turns into Odo. They're holding N-Tech and the obsidian guys at gunpoint.

Odo is the one that snatches N-Tex's phaser out of his hand, isn't he? Yeah. Yeah. That shocked look on his face. But Entec asked Garrick, like, why are you helping that? And I loved, I loved Garrick's response. He says, treason is in the eye of the beholder. I love that, too. I know. It was beautiful.

Yeah. And I think the way that Entec speaks to Garrick, you get the understanding that they are either equals back in the day or Garrick was even higher than him, you know? yeah yeah but he doesn't understand why he's helping these traitors and i love his line treasons in the eye the beholder and they leave with kira and gomor our adopted father we've all adopted him as our father we have we love him garrick then turns and entech's kind of making a move to go for his phaser and garrick vaporizes intech in this moment the concealed weapon the secret Faser. Yes.

I'm glad he did. I know. He's Entech is vapor. And kudos to the actor playing Antek. He really he acted. He suffered He acted being vaporized

very well as well. He was like completely shocked that this was happening to him and that's the end of him. And Garrick says pity. I rather liked him. Yeah. Another James Bond moment line there. Very cool. Cool. Yeah. Cucumber. Yes.

We're back on the space station for our last scene here. Kira is a Bajoran again. She's back to her normal self. She says it was all, you know, Bashir told me, it was all just surgery. They bring up the witness from prison who, who, you know, remembered her, and he's disappeared. So he must have been a plant. And Gamoire says that they used her because they knew that she would resist, that she's stubborn. Kira's stubborn, she's going to resist,

and that he would be drawn into trying to help her escape. So she was right. Here's an interesting little tidbit. Writer Robert Hewitt Wulf wanted Dr. Bashir to tell Kira at the end of this episode that he could not confirm whether she was a Cardassian replacement or the authentic Bajoran Kira in order to leave Kira permanently unsure of her original identity. He felt this would emphasize that our identity is based on our experiences. and who we have been, regardless of one's actual origins.

She has been Kira Norese. She may be the real Kira Norese. She may be a replacement, but she's Kira Norese now, and it doesn't really matter. Your identity is who you are. It doesn't matter how you get there. It doesn't matter whether it's true or a lie. If you've lived it long enough, it's true. However, this idea.

Sounds like something Garrick would say. Yeah, there you go. However, this idea was dropped from the final version of the story. So that was one direction they were going. We like to be sure of our heroes. Yes, we do. Yeah, it would have been weird if they left it that way, though. Yeah, agreed on everyone's point.

I think it would have been a little ambiguous, yeah. Unless it was a two-parter like I would like. Then we would have been good. He could have played that out. But Gimor does leave her with a little advice. He says, don't trust Garrick. He's dangerous and he'll betray you. Yeah.

And I thought that was, that was an interesting kind of foreshadowing or, you know, more, more mystery around Carrick, which I love. Yeah. Kira tries to give the bracelet back at the end, but he wants her to keep it. He says, you're the closest thing to family that I have. Yeah. Again, super sweet. Yeah. And Kira does want him to know that he's an honorable man.

That's a big step for Kira. Yeah. And she got broken up, too. Yeah, she was getting emotional. Yeah. But that's the right time for that emotion. That is the absolutely right time because it's the first time that she's seen how the other half lives. She's been fighting against Cardassians her entire life.

She's seen Cardassian brutality. She's seen Cardassian murdering murders. And now she has, in essence, lived in the skin of a Cardassian, literally. And seen good ones. Being good ones, exactly. Well, at least one for sure. At least one good one. It kind of reminded me of that show, Mom Swap or Wife Swap,

you know, where the mothers from each family go to another family, the messy family mom goes to the Neat Family, the Neat Family Mom goes to the messy family, and they learn how the other half lives and become a better person after that. And I think that Gira definitely evolves or is more enlightened after this episode. Yeah, for sure.

There you go. Second Skin. Second Skin. A lesson, theme or moral of this episode, Robbie McNeil. I think the theme or moral is that what I have is people can surprise you and be better than you expect. That was my takeaway. Okay. Yeah.

Terry, what do you think? Well, I had, don't judge a book by its cover. So I'm sorry, mine was more like a little. A saying. That's a similar idea. Don't judge people by what you expect. They may surprise you be better than you think. Yeah, I guess for me, it's just more along the lines of to be a complete person,

sometimes you need to learn how the other half lives or how the people that you've been contentious against. It reminds me of when we were in grade school and the teacher would pair us up and you're thinking, Oh, not that kid. They don't like me. I don't like them. And then by the end of the day, you have a new friend. A new friend. Yeah.

Yeah. It's always interesting how that works. Yeah. What is that saying when they say, a friend is someone you just, you haven't met? Is that the, there's some. A friend is a stranger. You haven't met. Exactly.

Oh, I like that. Well, the winner of our Patreon poll for the theme moral of episode is submitted by Alex Ray. Who and what you are is more than Skin Deep. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Like it. Great, Alex. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning into our recap and discussion of Second Skin. Now, coming up in our bonus material for all of our Patreon patrons, we have an interview with Nana Visitor about her thoughts and experiences in filming this episode's second skin. So, sign up to become a Patreon member to get this amazing interview, patreon.com forward slash the delta flyers.

For everyone else, please join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode The Abandoned with Armin. And we want to thank Terry for joining us this time, of course. Thank you. Thanks, Terry. And thank you. And Patreon, patrons, you get a little bit more, Terry. Gary, coming right up in your Bose material.