The Delta Flyers - The Alternate

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode, The Alternate, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, & Terry FarrellThe Alternate: A life form retrieved from a Gamma Quadrant planet wreaks havoc on DS9, and seems to have a strange effect on Odo.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Nicole Anne Toma, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Rob Traverse, Matt Norris, Stephanie Lee, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Sam Mikelic, Thomas Irvin, & Jonathan CappsOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Dannielle Kaminski, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Jenna Appleton, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Mary Burch, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Daniel O’Brien, Danie Crofoot, Steven Lugo, Gemma Laidler, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Timothy McMichens, Kevin Harlow, & Hailey LugoAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carol Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, John Richardson, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Tim Neumark, Will Forg, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, James Lyszczek, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lisa Gunn, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Mars DeVore, Robert Allen Stiffler, Jennifer Vaughn, Walkerius Logos, PJ Pick, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Constance, Loretta Reyes, Kyle Freund, Cassandra Girard, Francesca Garibaldi, Andrea Wilson, Carol Ramsey, Willow Whitcomb, Jadzia Mehari, Mo, Leslie Ford, Travis Campos, & Douglas Lawrence-PlantThank you for your support!“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Greetings, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers. Journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts along this journey are Terry Farrell, our statuesque science officer. Armin Shimmerman, our merchant extraordinaire, Robert Duncan McNeil, our favorite helmsman and Warp Ten Lizard. And myself, Garrett Wong, your Forever Ensign. And today we have Terry joining us.

Hi, Terry. Let's get into some birthdays right now. Yes. Birthday. Yay. Okay. Right off the bat, we have Lauren Rivers on July 23rd. Happy birthday to Lauren.

Happy birthday, Lauren. Happy birthday, Lauren. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Let's start with some poetry. Robert Duncan McNeil, go with your limerick. Well, here's what's interesting. I usually do my limericks far ahead of time,

but I didn't do it until about 10 minutes before we recorded. Oh, this is like speed limericks, sort of like speed dating. I can't wait to hear this. But here's what's crazy. I ended up doing two limericks because I did the first one. I'm like, oh, I don't know if it really got it. Let me try another one. You did two and ten minutes?

The pressure, the pressure of the clock made me more creative. Wow. We'll see. It doesn't always work that way. Before you jump into this, I just want to say, isn't there something where actors get together with director and they film a whole, they film like a short film in one day, and they write it, cast it, film. Yeah, 24-hour films or whatever. Yeah, yes, yes, whatever.

This is kind of what you did. Yeah, I did. Go, Robbie. Let's hear it. That'd be fun. Yeah, we're right. Here we go with my first limerick for the alternate. It goes like this.

Dr. Mora's the Bajoran, Odo likes least. He shows up. Oda's anxiety is increased. At the end of the day, if your feelings you can't say, you might turn into a beast. Oh. That's not bad. Wow, I really like that. That was pretty fun.

It was good. That's your number two. Lemurik number two. Here we go. The doctor returns from Odo's past. He's found Odo's homeworld at last. They steal a shrine without permission. It changes Odo's composition.

When Odo gets mad, everyone should hold fast. I like that one. I like that too. Yeah. All right. I couldn't design. I don't want to read my now. You're just so good.

I just, I feel shamed. Why? You are the brilliant, intelligent, come on, statuesque. Blue finger-nailed lady. The blue-fingaled lady with glasses, glasses-wearing lady. Come on, let's hear that poem, Terry Farrell. Oh, my gosh, but really, Robbie? Yes.

Outstanding. Thank you. Both of them. I was happy. I felt like I was in the pocket. I was in the zone today. You were. Oh, you were.

You should have just kept going. To do two in 10 minutes is amazing. It really is. Thank you. Very impressed. All right. Thank you. Terry Farrell.

Let's hear you. Harry, I love Terry's poetry. Me too. I always feel like I'm being set up to fail. No. That's so much pressure. Like, can I rewrite now? No.

You have 10 minutes. You have 10 seconds to rewrite that. 10 seconds. Yes. Okay. The alternate. My poem. Odo fights for his autonomy,

but lacking emotional maturity, this uncovers deep-rooted anger. His internal pain leads to danger. Dr. Mora's eventual realization of his insufferable domination clears the way for mutual respect and adoration. It wasn't like a classic poem. Was that okay?

It was okay. It's so crazy because when I'm listening to that, I'm thinking you're like writing rap lyrics. Like you could be like the first Trek female rapper. like that that makes it successfully that's those are like really great lyrics that you could rap i'm sorry no thank you i appreciate that yeah wow it was really good you captured the story i just capture like a joke but you capture like no you captured the story oh well i love your stuff thank you the first thing i started to write was about parents and it didn't come out

Poetry-wise, but I just started to kind of write a diary about how I felt about the episode first. Yeah. And then I had to sleep on it. And then the poem came to me. But I realized I need to have a little bit of, I don't know, a thought process about it before I write it. Because otherwise, I'm just trying to think of things to rhyme. Yeah. Right?

That's what I do. Right? The stressful thing is like, oh, that sentence, but I don't know how to, I don't know what to do. Yeah. All right, haiku. Haiku. Yeah, and lean, and like Robbie,

and like Robbie, it was last second for me, too. I had to do last second as well. And we basically met at the half hour, right, at 3.30 your time, right? And I wrote this at 3.28. So within two minutes of shopping.

Holy cow. Robby's dealing with his life, I'm dealing with my life. We have things that are just taking our time up right now. So sometimes we come in under the wire and I came in with less than a minute. I would say probably a minute left before we had to jump on when I as I wrote up in 60 seconds. Right before my acting class, which is right before I met you guys. So it was like I couldn't have done it during class. Right.

No, that wouldn't have worked. Okay, here's my haiku for the alternate. Dr. Dad, Mora, a life form found, but escapes. It was just Odo. That's it. I dig it. The lean-mean haiku. Yeah.

It always works. Lead mean fight machine. There you go. There you go. All right. Teleplay was Bill Dial. I don't know who Bill Dial. Has he written on the show before?

I don't recognize that name. Terry, do you see? I don't remember that name at all. It looks like a first time. No, because you know what? We didn't even, we didn't really know everybody. We didn't get to meet them. Yeah. They never came on set. They never came on set. I wonder if Bill dial. I wonder if he was a like a freelance writer or something. Probably. I know they had a lot of them. Possibly. So if we don't recognize the name, it just means they're not on the team of writers. True. But would they hire a freelance writer to write the teleplay though? Yeah. Yeah. We have. They had Samua Voyager.

Yeah. Okay. They had like outside assignments. Yeah. Yeah. And there were also people that they bought scripts from. Yes. I know that for a fact.

That's how Renee Ashvaria became a writer. They bought his script. He sent his in. Ah. So he comes in later. Well, I will say I just clicked the link for Bill Diles' credits and things. Yes. He's a comedy writer.

What? Which is interesting. Yeah. He wrote mostly comedy. comedy. He also wrote for our show, which I don't remember. Okay, now that you brought that up, that makes sense because that scene with Cisco, with Benjamin and Jake, dad and son seen, came off very much like a sitcom to me, that very first scene between the two of them that we see in the beginning of the episode. And I thought, God, this is really sitcom-y. And now I know, Bill Dial.

He did a lot of comedy. He also was an actor. Okay. Which is fascinating. Anything. of note that you saw there in his acting products. I'm trying to find... While you're trying to find that, I also want to say that Jim Trumbetta, who the story was by Bill Dyle and Jim Trumbetta, and that's the name that we've seen before, Jim Trumbetta. The idea for this episode came to Jim Trumbetta

when he realized that if a shapeshifter was suffering from multiple personality disorder, not only would he go around exhibiting different personalities, but different bodies. That's interesting little. Interesting. From the Star Trek D space non-companion, yeah. Well, Bill Dile wrote on Sliders, WKRP in Cincinnati,

Simon and Simon. Oh, I used to watch that show. Harper Valley PTA. I did not watch that. Yeah, he did a lot of things. I like it. Yeah. Bill Dial also wrote one episode of Voyager Eye of the Needle was the episode he wrote for us.

What? Yes. With Telegremore, the Romulan? Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. Crazy.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, Bill Dyle, he wrote the script. He also, sadly, passed away in 2008. Very young. He was 64 years old. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

It's definitely young. Yeah, sorry to hear that. I know. James Sloyan. Either of you work with James Sloyne, Dr. Mora Pohl before? No, did not. I never have.

Oh, no. But wasn't he on? was he in that Shonda Rhyme's show with See Young and the Restless General Hospital I'm just looking at his credits

The Sting You think he was a TV show Is that what you're saying? Oh he was in Jitrell He was what? What language was that? He was what? He was in Trill

the guy that Oh he was on Voyager Terry Yes Robbie Jettrell is the scientist that came up with the Cascade bomb that killed the Nelich's people. Yes.

That's why his voice was so familiar sounding in this one. My goodness. There you go. What was the one with Carrie Washington and she was the fixer? You and I both worked with him.

Scandal. Scandal. Was he in scandal? I'm looking right now. Partial filmography. Because I was thinking that's what he looked, who he looked like.

No. It was one of the actors at scandal. No. No, his credit stop. Did he pass? Nope. I guess he's still alive.

His credit stopped in 2008. he doesn't do anything else he just he just wanted to retire like some of us do yeah wow yeah it's like how much is left why be stressed why be stressed um interesting little factoid from the interwebs is that the original plan was to have rene aubergen-ois played both roles well it's interesting it's interesting you say that yeah because they made up more with hair like odo yeah his all of his look looked very much like odo yeah his all of his look looked very much like So you can see that Odo sort of modeled his physical appearance. Oh, I wonder if René was disappointed.

Well, what happened was they did the calculations of time because he would have to be going in and out of two different makeup looks entirely. Oh, yeah. They said, well, a seven-day episode is now going to take 14 days if we have Renee play both. So let's cast an actor to play him. But that's too bad. Renee would have been awesome playing both. Oh, he would have loved to have done that too.

I know. you know just the challenge to play both characters would have yeah he would have loved that that's very cool i didn't know yeah um what else you got there like tickles the back of my head but it's not a concrete memory where i go yeah i remember that now i don't but i just like that would be so cool but now you'll remember yeah uh special effects supervisor glen newfeld a special effects supervisor glen newfield did not like the special effects in this episode he felt that you saw too much of the monster he wanted to keep it away from, you know, seeing the actual monster version of Odo. He didn't want to see so much of that.

Dennis McCarthy scored the music. He treated it like a horror film this episode. He basically did the music as if it was a horror film. And he says the orchestra can give you tremendous horror effects, but it can also sound dated. So adding the synthesizer pushes you into the era that we're in now. So that's from, again, Star Trek, D. Space Nine Companions. So that was Dennis McCarthy.

this was David Carson's last episode of Star Trek D Space 9 that he directed director David Carson he doesn't direct another one after this he goes on to direct I think Star Trek Generations the film and that's it for him so he did a great job I was going to bring that up as we got into it but he liked his stuff on this one

I loved it it was just elegant and cinematic and I thought he did a wonderful job really good yeah okay let's jump in all right Well, the first thing that happens, we're in Quarks, and Quark's got some kind of disc in his hand, and he's trying to sell this slice. Basically, we learn that it's a slice of plague, a Ferengi. He's trying to sell it to another Ferengi, and Odo arrives, asks how much he's asking for this thing. And Quark says three strips of latinum.

That's when the customer leaves. And Odo pretends he's fascinated by this tradition of Ferengi slicing up their dead bodies and selling them to he. other yeah and we talked about this in an earlier episode was it when she came on the woman I don't remember which was it when the woman came on that was in disguise as a man mm-hmm oh oh oh oh oh oh oh hell right that's Frankie yes yes we talk I think it's in that episode that we talked about how Ferengi sell their body parts yeah it came up yep yeah gross it's sorry you just wanted to have a little throwback to keep you know yes it keeps coming up this slice

up Ferengi plan. Anyway, Odo pretends he wants it, but it turns out that plague is alive. Odo reveals, and Odo says he wants to know who's in the disc when suddenly a man arrives, and Odo is completely thrown when he sees this man. It's Mora, the doctor that was his caretaker. Quark uses Mora to change the subject with Odo to get out of trouble, acts really friendly, and Odo doesn't want to deal with that, so he takes more away.

And yeah, that was a nice scene. It was a nice turn for Renee, I thought. He really, you knew that it was something. He was very upset. It was, oh, oh, what's about to happen? Yeah, but David Carson, right out of the gate, just shot a beautiful scene to open the episode. Again, just very elegant, you know, nothing flashy,

but just great staging and the simple camera moves that kind of led one actor to another. It was great. Good. Yeah, and the look of Dr. Morra, like you talked about earlier, Robbie, very similar to Odo in terms of the hair, you know, and everything. Essentially, that just in the episode The Forsaken,

do you remember when he was in the turbolift with Loxana Troy? They were talking to each other, and he mentioned that he had modeled his hairstyle after his mentor, which was Dr. Mora. So that is the throwback that they, the continuity that they kept with that, which is a great idea. It's a great idea. And they found a great actor because it's just a little different, but similar enough that you get it.

Yeah. For sure. We catch up with Moranoto, walk and talk. Beautiful long lens shot again. And it captured, David Carson captured the promenade better than I've ever seen. The life, the selling of things, the commerce going on. It just was beautiful. Yeah.

But basically Morris says Quark was, sorry, says Odo was rude to quark. And Odo says he's as friendly as he wants to be. Right. You know, he integrates, I integrate as much as I want to. Yeah. He's very emphatic. Yeah. Clearly he's like nervous around this professor, you know.

Yeah. But just right off the bat, I just want to say, what a great character development episode. Now we get some answers. We've always wondered about Odo, what's going on with him? And now this is the episode that gives us a little morsel as to who he is. And, boy, he is very anxious around his old mentor. Yeah, it's almost like he's on eggshells in a way. Well, and Mora is a little intrusive, too.

He didn't treat him with respect by saying, I'm on my way. A lot of people don't handle surprise as well. and Odo I would never guess Odo to be somebody who's like a yeah surprise me kind of guy exactly exactly and even in their dialogue right you hear that where he's jumping him all the time where he's not even letting him speak so you definitely see that there was a certain dynamic that went on back at the institute and it wasn't one of of consideration for Odo at all yeah the whole father-son thing is very interesting you know like a parent can sometimes talk over their kid and that's a better way to say it it wasn't something of disregard or disrespect

but a fatherly or a parently sort of thing that naturally goes on with a kid yeah you're right but it is slightly disrespectful though too he's not treating him like a man he's treating him like he's still a kid and that's disrespectful that is the problem that yeah yeah yeah yeah i was torn with this character throughout because at moments i was like oh you're a jerk you're just being so rude. And in other moments, he was so clearly moved by Odo's growth. Yes. So I was very conflicted with that character. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You're zigzagging the entire episode. Yeah. Yeah. I felt the whole, like he didn't handle the empty nest well. Yes. Yes. He's not moving forward. Like mom knocks on the door. Hi, honey. I'm here to visit. Right. So much so he wants him.

back. Odo's room at the Institute hasn't changed at all. It's exactly the way it is. Posters on the wall. Yeah, same posters. All right, we go to the replamette. Mora asks Odo if he misses the lab and the works, you know, studying

Odo's origins where he came from. And Odo does admit that he misses that discovery part, but he doesn't miss the lab. Do you think his reaction was too hardcore when he says, like, do you miss our work and Odo's like never like it was very emphatic the way he said it I don't think it was too much personally I it felt like what was the trauma that he I wanted to know more about that trauma yeah yeah I like that because they didn't know who what Odo was when they found him right

we already kind of know that so to me it would feel like I already know Odo's very private man we know that about him yeah and he's very sensitive because as you would be if you're the only person, only being like you. Yes. So it's very intrusive and imagine that he was studied at the same time. It wasn't just, he wasn't just mentoring. Right. He was being studied.

Yeah. And experimented on, right? Experimented on in a way. Yeah. That's awful. Yeah. That's awful. Yeah.

Well, Morrow does say at the end, he's glad that Odo was, you know, misses that discovery part he was counting on that so we don't know what that means what has he got in store bum bum bum we go to cisco's quarters and jake's heading out he's going to go hang out with nogs cisco wants him to study he's like what about the clinging opera you were you were studying and and jake says oh i did it i already did it real quick and cisco's like you can't learn cling on opera by just a quick listen and they end up kind of bickering about that i loved avery's reading when Jake was like, when am I going to need

Klingon opera? And Cisco's like, you know, well, he gives a couple things and he goes, you may find yourself among some Klingons in a job somewhere. In the way he did it. This is the Bill Dial sitcom. This is the sitcom scene I'm talking about.

Am I right? Did we come off as that? It's very funny. Well, did you notice too at the top Jake has this pause? And I loved how Sirak had this little pause, like stealing himself. like, okay, I'm just going to charge out. I'm not going to. I didn't see that. I'm not going to let him stop me.

Yeah, he has a little pause before he braces himself to go. That's great. And it's, you know, it makes me think of, this is a great family moment. And we haven't had a lot of that. No, no, we have not. And some of my favorite stuff, these kind of just domestic like father, son, scenes. And it doesn't really lead anywhere. There's no, you know, there's not nothing about this that is critical to the story, but yet.

But it's very satisfying. It's very satisfying. It is. Like, it's great to see the O'Brien's have time together, too. Yeah, definitely. It just makes you feel like that living on the space station has a real quality of family life and single life, because otherwise it seems mostly like single life and military kind of vibe rather than. Yeah, it's like a workplace show. But this is, that's not the theme of DS9.

The DS9 is a family show. Got to have that stuff. Voyager's more of a workplace show. We don't have that many family stuff going on in our world. No, not as much. The last thing that happens is Cisco insists that Nog come over. And so Jake goes to call Nog. They're going to study, he's going to stay right where he is.

Odo arrives, though. Odo wants a runabout, tells Cisco that Mora may know where he came from. So that was the big. secret that Mora didn't spill earlier. We didn't see it anyway. Yeah, they had some scans basically of the gamma quadrant and they came up with the DNA signature very similar to Odo. So they assumed that this may be his origin planet or origin location. But when they talked about having Nog come over, I was actually excited. I thought Aaron Eisenberg was going to somehow pop in on this episode. We never see it though. This is the only scene. Yes, dead gummit. Oh, well. I loved Renee's

performance of sharing this information with Cisco, though, when he says, you know, patterns like my own. He says, Dr. Moore thinks he may have discovered the origin of my people. Yeah. Of me. Yeah. I love the wording of that of me. So personal and, yeah. And so layered, distinctly layered. There were definitely a lot of emotions happening for him. You could see. Yeah. You could. Conflicted and conflicted, but also excited. Very excited. Really, really, really one of to know but trying to keep his stuff together at the same time and be professional yeah we go out to space we see uh we see the runabout rio grande whoosh through the the wormhole and um we cut inside and there's a young bejoran man who's we learn as the other doctor the pejoran doctor yeah

but mora's explaining his work with odo to dax at the top of this scene he has nice shiny hair Do you notice that? Yes, really is. Very shy. Well, it's like Odo. It's that it almost looks like Odo's super perfect comb back hair. Oh, yeah. And Dr. Mora's super comb back and slick hair, too.

Yes, yes. A lot of hairspray in that shot. Yes. On all of us. Everybody has hairspray. Everybody has very shiny hair. Yeah, Moras explaining to Dax, all of the work, going in all the detail. And Odo explains that he had to teach.

teach the doctor, the Bajorans about who he is. He had to teach them. So it's kind of like a father-son, you know, who gets credit for all the stuff, you know? Dad thinks he gets all the credit. But it was painful. It was a painful conversation. Yeah, it wasn't the same family conversation with Jake and Ben that we have here. This was definitely like a strain. And there's ego involved. And the ego is involved. I'm right. I know better than you. Yes. I'm the father. I'm the doctor yeah yeah and this is a scene where otto tries to speak too he try as as he's talking and he gets cut off every time yeah getting cut off getting cut off and morris says in the scene that he explains that this work with otto was the best part of his life so another sort of fatherly

like you know being a dad is the best thing it feels like that kind of line you know yeah like his foot is in his mouth and he says something nice yeah yeah i must mention that the Bajoran doctor, I failed to mention his name. That co-star, who plays Dr. Weld Ram, is Matt McKenzie, Matt McKenzie. So I need to throw that out there. I'm glad you did. I didn't see his name in the front credits. Yeah, it's not in the front credits, but it's at the end credits under co-stars.

So co-star, he was the only one. So I just, I forgot to name him in the beginning. So I'm going to name now. So there you go. Okay. Well, they reached the planet in the shuttle or in the runabout, but it's a volumin. but it's a volcanic planet so they go into synchronous orbit

around the planet and we cut down to the planet surface the four of them beamed down Mora, his buddy, Matt McKenzie um Tacks and Odo and they beam down and it's like a

it looks like a shrine like a religious a spiritual kind of place yes like we're in Egypt or Greece yeah yeah Greece it felt a very Greek And as they move across this beautiful crane shot, which was very, I got to say, the crane shot was very efficient because he opened, you know, the opening of them walking through. And then it became another submaster later on. He went back to that crane shot to go to the doctor in the foreground.

So again, very clever camera work from David Carson. I thought the backdrop, what did you think of the backdrop? To me, that threw me. Yeah. Yeah, because you could tell. It felt like a rental. I mean, I could tell. Yeah.

Like an old, like it was 30 years old or 50 years old and they just rented it. From the original series. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that. It just looked that way to me. Like it just didn't go with the whole. It didn't blend well with the environment. A volcano in the background might have worked better.

Yes. Yes, exactly. Because it would help support what they just said. Yeah, there's, but all over this shrine and everywhere, there's writing or higher glyphics or whatever it may be. They ask Odo if he can read it, but he cannot. He has no idea what it says. And is it Dax who says, take, let's beam it away?

Is that what happens? Yeah, and I'm thinking, is that a good idea? I'm like, why are you doing that? I said the same thing. And we not just take pictures of it? What the hell? You can't just steal people's stuff. Like, nobody's around.

Let's just take this. It's so casual. It looked huge when we were on the planet. How are we going to fit it in? I know, but the fact that you're so casual about it, and no one even questions it. They're like, yeah, let's do it. Let's beam it now. Let's take it. Let's take it. What else you want to take? It's like, this is, this is somebody's some nice treasures over there, some trinkets. We're beaming it up now. No, it's a sacred site. And you've just stolen, you know, who knows.

This might have been the headstone of the last tribal chief that was buried underneath the shrine. Who knows? But it's like some, it's like some aliens come down. to Earth, they go to Stonehenge, and they're like, oh, this is cool. Let's take it. Let's take Stonehenge. Exactly. They're a pyramid. But first, before we beam it, our young guest star. Yes. Man McKenzie. Shiny hair McKenzie. Yes. Shiny hair McKenzie finds a little petri dish, or puts in a little petrijus a little

living organism. Yeah. Would it look like to you guys when you first looked at it? Those magnetic things. Oh, as if it's being. The magnet? Oh, yeah, it looked like dirt to me. It looked like a blue man group effect to me. Like they have that kind of stuff going on too. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Well, they got a dish of a petri dish of some kind of dirt life form. Yes. And they decided to steal him too. They steal that too. It's just like, we don't care. We're going to take. And they're going to steal the shrine. I'm not proud of my show right now.

I was really angry at you guys. I was, yeah. Well, hold on to that. But then that's, did you agree, this is what I thought. The minute they beamed out the shrine, that's when the earthquake began. So I thought, oh, you guys just caused the Indiana Jones Temple of Dune. That's what it made me think of. I was waiting for darts to come at us.

Like, oh, my God. Got to dodge some darts. We're losing Matt. We're losing Dr. Matt. Yeah. Dr. Shiny's gone. Dr. Shiny. That's what I was thinking.

Yeah, he's the red shirt in the scene for sure. And then how about once we start to do it and that happens, put it back. Put it back. Would have been my thought. Beem the shrine back. Beem the shrine back, please. Exactly. But they don't.

As we're choking on the gas. Yes. The earthquake, by the way, another shout out to David Carson. Because I know we don't shake the stage. Like the actors are just pretending that everyone. everything shaking. And nothing shakes in there. So whatever he did, his sequence of shots and the lenses he chose, I bought it. I bought this whole. And are amazing shaking. And you're amazing shaking. Chris, oh, except for, it wouldn't have been Chris Crossgrove then because he's

with when we get on to Jonathan. Um, I don't. You're talking about Marvin Rush. This is Marvin. Do you remember who Marvin's cameraman was? Yeah, it was Joe Chess. Joe Chess, I think, right? Young, young white dude. Yeah, kind of like Midwest-looking guy. Oh, didn't he move away as soon as we had the earthquakes? I don't know. I think he did.

I don't know. But he, I think he was the only person who got so freaked out that he left. Oh, wow. They're the ones who shake, too. Yeah, so was it handheld? Was it handheld? Probably handheld or some long lenses in there. But whatever David Carson did, I thought there was effective.

Earthquake, shaking, and the shots were great. Good. he's definitely a talented director yeah all right but they barely get out in time as the smoke engulfs the shot the lens the gas gas yes with infirmie uh basheera's treating everyone who's passed out bjorans are really affected but guess who's not affected at all odo because he has no respiratory system i that's amazing i wish i was oto i wish i was oto i would never get bronchitis i would never get a cold i have no respiratory system what a great but then you would be sad and angry and traumatized from the way you were raised.

If after Moorah visited me, yeah. Yeah, right, we already are. So, you know. Yeah, exactly. But you really want to give up your face? For Odo's face? Yeah, probably not. Can I be a hybrid?

Can it be like half human, half Odo? I'm amazed that Renee could bring so much emotion through all that rubber on his face. With all that rubber on his face. He really did. Well, this episode, he had a lot of different. incarnations of that makeup, too. Terry, he's completely, it's prosthetics over all, every part of his face, except even his chin is also covered.

Oh, yeah. Right. There's not one. Like here. Right. There's not one bit of his face. Yeah, sometimes I want,

I want them to put more makeup because you can see the red in a couple of shots here, which kind of like, ah, that irritated me. But everything above the neck is covered. It's rubber. So how does he bring all that amount? It's a hair piece that goes over. over the rubber, over the prosthetic.

He had great hair. He had great. Yeah, he did. Renee has had good hair, definitely. But it's just, you're right, Robbie. It's hard. It's like a mask. It's like a permanent mask on for every episode that you do for seven years.

You're wearing a mask. Did he wear contacts? It proves you how much is in your eyes. Yeah. Did he wear contacts, though? It just occurred to me. I don't think so. I remember him wearing glasses.

I think, but I mean, like alien contacts. Or was that his real life? No. That's why. That's why because it comes through his eyes. If he had alien contacts, yeah. Yeah, that would be different. But still.

Yeah, he did great. Well, Bashir's treating everybody. Odo's not affected. They do have samples that they stole. Just a reminder, they stole the dirt. I'm a thief. Is it dirt or was it moss? What was it exactly?

I'm a science thief. Okay. You really are. I'm telling you, I think it was those little nice things. Can we introduce you as that? Terry Farrell are science. Well, they're going to study this dirt. They're going to see if it can help them treat these people that are suffering from this trip down there stealing stuff.

Odo's very worried in the scene about Morrow, which surprised me. It was like, I thought he was mad at him, but he clearly cares. And Cisco notices this when Odo leaves. And so he follows him out. go to the promenade again great background work in the scene it felt the best version of the promenade i think i've ever seen whatever the ades and david carson did it was great but uh yeah they do a little walk and talk here um cisco tells uh about his father's illness which uh you know i hadn't i hadn't heard much about cisco's father this is the first time i remember him talking about

his parents correct he doesn't first time he talks about when his father got sick how he felt helpless because he couldn't do anything Cisco's sharing all this and Odo is very insistent to tell him more is not my father so he's

he's really denying that kind of relationship at this point great oneer though this long lens shot as they walk forward and it ended up on that line where Odo says, Mora's not my father in a close-up, then he leaves and it hands off to pans over to Cisco

for the button of the scene, five stars. It makes so much sense to me that we get to see the peak of how Odo feels in his heart about Mora with nobody looking and still upholds his anger when everyone's looking at him. Yeah.

Because it's private what he's feeling. And he clearly, like my poem, he's not he isn't mature about these feelings he hasn't worked them out or process them so he does not know how to handle all the feelings he's feeling he can't even articulate what he needs from mora which is to just you know no he's he's not able to he's not able to even understand and reflect on his feelings to be able to share it and that you know spoiler alert that is what leads him to all of this stuff that's stuffed down turns him into this monster later.

Exactly. I would like to read a little excerpt from Star Trek Deep Space Nine Companion. When telling Odo the story about his father, Cisco seems to imply, without actually saying it, that his father had passed away after becoming ill. Joseph Sisko ultimately made six appearances in the series. His first one taking place almost exactly two years after this episode,

possibly because of the information disclosed in this episode. It is mentioned in the script of Homefront that several years earlier Joseph fought a debilitating battle against a severe illness, barely surviving. He's never gotten back to full strength, but he's determined to live out the rest of the years. It sure did sound like he passed away, didn't it, when I... Absolutely.

Well, also the conversation got cut short. It got cut off, so we don't know the funny entirety. And think of how many times you have a conversation and maybe you hold your tongue while someone else is saying what they're thinking and then you wanted to say what you'd like to share.

And you didn't get to. And, you know, they go off on the turbo lift. Yeah. Yeah. And you never finish that conversation. Yeah. Exactly.

Yeah. Never finish it. But it's really... Turbo lift problem. Turbo lift problem. But that Odo can't work out how to talk to more. and talk about what he needs.

Yeah. It's not really that crazy of a man problem. Men speaking with men and talking about your feelings. It's just not an easy thing. I've never heard that before. You mean men don't talk about their feelings, Terry? I'm not talking about the two of you. Not the two of you.

You all are the rarest breed. And I love you guys. So we go to the science lab next. I'm uncomfortable with my feelings we go to the science lab next yes I love the tilt up I made all these notes

what David Carson's work because it was so good the tilt up off the dirt the little dome yeah just super cool and elegant opening but O'Brien says that the life form is multiplying he had to use a bigger petri dish

this big dome and Odo goes over he's focused on the shrine he's really obsessed with trying to figure out the wording is it connected to his people he really wants to know and O'Brien asked him do you have any idea what it is and Odo admits he's hoping it's a key to understanding who he is and and he leaves and then O'Brien sort of also wanders over to it and there's this nice tilt up to the top of the obelisk and again it's uh it's really well done the directing in this scene i thought it was great um do you know what i noticed yes everybody helped i didn't even need to come back everybody helped with the science information like odo i mean o'brien's a scientist

otto's a scientist care is a scientist i did notice that it was like what am i doing there yeah we got to get dax back why why let me go on vacation Terry is it is it too many scientists ruin the last ruin the last yes yes there was a little part of me that got my nose like a little bit over here yeah it just moved a little bit over understood yeah yeah you've been otto the detective he's talking about energy fields and power yeah surges he's like all about he's a scientist too he's a scientist He's a liquid. And Dr. Bishir. And Bishir's, Bishir's, can do anything.

He can do anything. He's proven he's a jackabal. He can play racquetball. He can do everything. He can. He can lead a commando unit. He's good. Stick around.

There's lots more after this message from our sponsor. The next scene is in Cisco's bedroom and he's sleeping hard. And Kira calls, Kira to Cisco. Go ahead, Major. He says, Grogly. Sorry to bother you, but we need you up here in the science lab. And he, you know, these wake-up scenes, we've all done them. I thought Avery did a great job.

Me too. I paid attention. Yeah. I hate it when somebody looks like they're trying to pretend they were sleeping. And it's like, no. Yeah. Just get into the bed early and close your eyes. Just be your own stand in, for God's sakes.

You guys remember the show Star Search? They used to have an acting competition where they were being three. and actors would do a scene if I had done if I was in charge of programming my thing would have been okay we bring three actors in and all of you do a wake-up scene

see how who does the best wake-up it's not easy to do it's hard no wake-ups and death yes because you got to death is not easy especially when you have no experience of it for before hopefully none of us do none of us have life experience of how to die

so we have to imagine what it would be like to lose consciousness and then fade to black, right, so. Although Harry Kim died eight times. I did. So I'm a pro. I am a pro, Robbie. I am the most. I have a PhD in how to die. In death. And, uh, yeah, I've, I've been doing it so long now. Yep. All right. Uh, so, so Cisco wakes up because we go to the science lab and the place is trashed. Oh my goodness. And the big petri dish that they had to get the bigger one. It's kind of the petri dome. The petri dome. Yes. Yeah, the dome. has this weird hole in it.

It is weird, isn't it? It's like, why is it splayed out like that? It's like melted or something. Yeah. Yeah, in a weird way. Yeah. Well, off of that tragedy of the science lab being destroyed, basically, we go to commercial break, a little break.

We come back to the lab. They're trying to figure out what happened. They say the doors were all locked. It looks like maybe this thing went up through the vent system. And as cure goes, Odo stops her, and he wants her to read her. review security feed records and also the heat sensor log so he's starting to be a little sciencey here Terry how do you feel about it I'm not there am I they don't really I mean you would have thought of it much earlier than that much earlier yeah I agree I probably would have

been in the lab when it happened see that's a problem if you were there Terry there would be no episode you would have answered everything very quickly in one scene and it would all been Everyone go home, and that would have been it. So that's why. It's a wrap. Yeah. Well, yes, Oda wants the heat sensor logs checked. And this is when Mora wakes up.

There was a funny beat in this scene where Dax does say she shows up later on. And she says, Dr. Bashir wouldn't listen to me. And he hid my clothes so I wouldn't leave. And she says, I had to sneak out of my quarters in a hospital gown. that wouldn't close in the back. First of all, you were very funny in it. Second of all, haven't they fixed hospital gowns in the future? No, because it makes sense, right?

Well, Dr. Cisco says to me, did Dr. Bashir give you permission to be up and about? Yes. Yes. But your delivery was very funny. It was funny. I liked how he directed me in this episode. I liked that I, yeah, this was kind of cool

because I didn't have a lot of my opinions, or Dax wasn't very opinionated in it. It was much more she's with her science hat on, and this is what's happening. So that was fun to do. Yeah, I thought you were great. And a little bit of comedy, again, our comedy, you know, experienced writer. Yeah, Bill Dial wrote this little hospital gown line in there. Very funny. Yeah.

In the infirmary, Maura is concerned about the life form escaping. He says that he wants to help out. He knows that the life form is escaped. And he says that he knows more about shapeshifters than anyone else in this sector. And Odo is arguing with him. And you know what? This whole scene to me was father's son arguing over

who's going to take the car for the evening or something like that. It was very much like, you know, oh my gosh, you know, except for me, you know, I'm going to be running this investigation. So again, you know that there's a lot of pain in Odo's past, feeling like he was kept or in prison basically. And Odo's like, I'm a big boy now.

Yes, he's saying, I'm a big boy now. big boy mountain exactly that is the subtext of this entire scene i am an adult i can put on my pants on my own i don't have to have you controlling my life because i'm a man yeah that's that's what this scene is but basically otto says i'm taking care of this yeah you're not going to you're not and dr well still has not regained consciousness which is confident shiny here like yeah otto's very confident yeah he hasn't woken up but bashear's going to take care of him and i'm on team otto here because this year can do anything right yeah but i think it's nice though that they had that happen yeah so that it to really you know not to put too fine a point on it but that that that gas was

really dangerous yeah yeah okay then we go to a conduit where miles is on the trail in a tube he should have a partner you know like absolutely he's all by himself what is it definitely especially when we don't even know what he's after he's chasing an alien that was kidnapped i want to remind everybody. Yes. And this alien could have turned into something dangerous or multiplied. Yeah. We had no idea.

This is the horror movie scene right here. Has he heard the sound yet? Not yet. It doesn't hear until the end of it. But it's yes, in this sequence he does. Yeah. Yeah. This is the horror movie scene.

This is all about you're thinking he's about to get, you know, jumped by the monster at this point. You don't know what's happening to it. They think it might maybe that this thing is absorbing low frequency. RF energy. Do you know what RF energy is? No idea. Okay, me neither. And Miles finds a breach and touches it and then goo pours out and he goes, wait, it's dead, right? And I'm thinking, no, now it's like Odo, right? I thought so too. It looked like Odo. How does he know it's dead? Well, now we've gone from being that grainy stuff and I thought, oh, maybe Odo started out like

the grainy stuff and then he grows and turned into the goo. Did O'Brien? scan the goo with the tricorder yes or no guys i don't remember i don't think so he just looks at it drip out and go it's dead like that how do you know it's dead he doesn't even i don't know that would be one of those oh missed opportunity dach should be there dax should be there with him yes she's the show would be over though again the show would end immediately his job to scoop up the goo and bring it back to the science lab you would think so but then we would have found out it was Odo. Oh, yeah. See, end of the episode.

Well, here's the thing. Before we go to the station log, I noticed another David Carson shoutout. They only had one small conduit with a backing, a photo backing, you could see in the back. So it was probably 10 feet long, 15 or something. But he was able to reuse that. Like, they'd cut away in the sequence to the bridge or to the ops. And then he'd move him back and continue the same shot. So he was reusing a. very small set and had him crawl out of it a couple of times. So it seemed like he was going from one opening to another. It was very well done. It was clearly a small, very small set that he made feel much, much bigger. Like it was really long. Yeah. Yeah. Good job. Yeah. Now we go to the station

log and we hear that it's engineering crews have been working for over 15 hours searching the conduits, there have been no additional incidents and no further evidence of the alien life form has been found anywhere. So, whatever O'Brien found, that was it. That was it's not around. They can't find it. It's gone. Yeah,

all gone. Back in the infirmary, Bashir says the life form could not survive on its own outside of that little dome, a little petri dish. Petri Dome. But it did, though. It did something Because it's a little squishy butt

From the science lab All the way out into wherever the heck he was Conduit 7B Bashear says he'll ask Mora who's doing better now Morr's feeling much better So that's good news everybody Dax suggests

A Ractagino to Bashir in the scene Hey I feel like a Racta Gino And Bashir very forward of him says your replicator or mine ruins it

yeah right yeah I agree why can't he get to know me first why do you have to go there what the hell is it with those kind of guys and then even weirder after you leave Dax but she has this monologue to himself she enjoys it

she actually gets some kind of perverse pleasure out of it one of these days I'm going to stop chasing her and then we'll see what that's so weird it was weird that he talked to himself what has anyone games it was such those are such head games but who does that

has any other character talk to a 16 year old what there's a there's a way to do it like if if he was able to be busy doing something kind of like you know quoting her no replicate her something like that what if it was he's doing his work

but it seemed like he stopped and had this yeah this dramatic monologue to no one. Okay, let me ask both of you this. Could he have just sat there looking and then all you'd heard was an internal thought of him saying that better than him actually mouthing it? You know what I'm saying? Or is that weird?

DS9. I don't think that's a Star Trek. I can't do that either to have the internal. It's almost like a, it's like a station log in your head that you hear with the character right there, basically. But you know what I think, too, when you think about a shot like this, if you had extra time yes you could have him moving and make another shot out of his doing something as he's talking to himself or cleaning up or whatever right so it's not as weird right but when that feels disingenuous

those moments i often wonder and i think you guys will agree that we're times too short we got to get the shot this is not where we want to spend our time or money just say the words and let's yeah it won't matter it's this part of the television show doesn't matter in that respect yeah yeah yeah Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. If it were a film, it would be different, but it's not. We've got 42 minutes and we have 10 days to shoot it.

Yeah, that's right. After his very deep personal monologue to himself, he hears a noise. He goes to check it out, check on his patience, and the lights are all off, by the way. Right. And then behind him, we see this tentacle come down. Like an octopus's tentacle, basically. Yeah. Right?

Yes. And he's not aware of it. Great horror movie moment. He gets grabbed suddenly by the tentacle. Yeah. Tenticle wraps around. He grabs some kind of laser tool, some scalpel tool or something and kind of forces it over to shoot at the monster. And then the monster goes back up through the vent.

Right. And that was a hard. It was very difficult to watch that. And he was sweating. Yeah. Yeah. The tentacle was okay. but the actual shot of Odo's as that entity

going up through the air vent was really blocky and not good. It was not good. No. Coming down was good. Coming down was great. Yeah. And around the neck was fine, but leaving was horrible. It was like they ran out of money.

At that point, they were... I agree. Yeah, it bumped me too. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. Okay. That's why the special effects, man, wasn't happy about...

He wasn't happy. You shouldn't have seen it. No. Because it's too impossible to, we didn't have the technology then. No. Yeah. I would have just had just the last sliver of tentacle go up through the vent, you know, like a practical, like an actual tentacle thing.

I bet that's all he wanted to do. That's all you needed to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It would have worked. Okay. Well, that's where the commercial break would go in the old days.

But we just had a brief pause and then we're back in the infirmary with forensics have arrived. to O'Brien, scanning the vent. Bashir explains everything that happened. Bashir's explaining to Cisco, Odo, Miles, and Mora. And I wrote down, why isn't Kira there? Like, this is a security issue. Curia would be there.

Crisis. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of weird. Yeah, it's kind of strange. She is the F.O. And she's not there. Yeah. I mean, maybe she's on the bridge. I think they do call her from here at some point. So maybe she's or the or ops. Maybe she's running off. She's an ops. Maybe. She's an ops.

Yeah. Yeah, she's an ops. But Odo asks if it was warm, asked Bashir, was it warm? And Bashir says, yeah, a little warm. And so he thinks maybe it was another thermal distortion, temperature distortion. Dax does find in the scene some organic residue for the first time. They didn't find that before. Because I wasn't there.

Exactly. Literally. Well, either this thing is, you know, Either this thing is morphed into something organic or it's not the same thing. Oh. Yeah. They're trying to figure this all out. Yes.

Dax finds this organic residue. Cisco says, let's go to Red Alert. And Mora hears in the scene them refer to Odo as constable for the first time. And he tells Odo that he thinks it's a term of affection that Odo just doesn't want to accept. Yeah. So he's kind of doing a little. therapy on Odo. Well, I wanted to say, too, well, hang on.

It's not just affection. It's also a term of respect. Yeah. Yeah. But Odo doesn't seem to like because he says it's a nickname that I barely tolerate. Yes, but he also can barely tolerate more at this moment. Yes, he can definitely barely tolerate more. So it's making it even worse. Yeah. What do you think Odo would rather be called? Just security

chief? Hey, you. Or a security chief see no constable sounds way better I don't remember I feel like there was something in the pilot or in the very beginning that he wanted to be called like commissioner I don't remember now there was an episode where I don't know it was like somebody was trying to take over his job

oh oh when uh uh the the the, the cowboy, the Texan guy, you know, the cowboy Starfleet guy. Yes. Well, I want to tell you. I want to spin a quick yarn for you, young folks. That guy was funny. That guy. Oh, my gosh. That episode. Okay. I have to look back at that one.

All right. Where are we guys? We go to the promenade. Moranota are walking again. Mora thinks he says in the scene, you know, your police work, your detective of work and my science work have a lot in common. So another kind of father, son, like, hey, the things you love are kind of like the things I love. Like, you got that for me or something like that. He's trying so hard to connect to Odo this whole time.

This whole time, please, I want a deep connection with you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he does, you know, put it all on the table in the scene. He says how proud he is of Odo. Asked Odo, do you know that? Yeah. Like, do you know how proud I am of you?

And Odo's response is to grunt, which I love Renee's classic. Because he rescinds him right now. Right now he's resenting how he's being treated. So every little thing, it's just hitting wrong. Nothing's going to hit right until they deal with this. And we've all experienced this in our own lives, too, at a certain point of us. Yeah. But I think it's interesting that more really, not that I'm going to make, you know, one person right or wrong, but more is trying.

With all his flaws, he's trying to be emotionally honest. And Odo is just stuffing all of these emotions. I mean, that's what's going to lead to him. Losing it. Yeah. He's stuffing it. He's not, he's just not opening up to these invitations. He's pushing it down, pushing it down, and then it's going to explode.

Yeah. Because he doesn't know how to handle it. Right. Yeah. Because it was already probably way up here before Mora even got to the station. Even showed up. Exactly. Yeah.

And now it's like, well he never dealt with it yeah when he it's out of the frame it definitely i mean he's had these issues when he was at the institute when he left the institute he still had those issues but he wasn't around dr mora now dr mora just re-ignited everything you know all that stuff that was pushed down back then is still there this still present so he has to trauma PTSD yeah big time he needs he does we go to the science lab next otto and more uh check in with dax our science It's genius. Who's okay looking to?

Yeah. Who ain't too shabby on the eyes either? How's that? Is that okay? Thank you. Sure. Well, they check him with Dax on the DNA comparisons. And Odo asks Dax when he first comes in, he goes, hey, where's the shrine?

Why is the shrine over there? And Dax says, oh, it was in my way. So I had it moved. Yes. And. Yeah, but he sounds ticked off at me. like I yes really who gives a shit is that what you guys got you guys got that he's pissed he's annoyed about it but why is it why is it why is he's protective he thinks that it might be

a connection oh okay he didn't want anyone to touch his his his key to his last valuable yeah fine yeah and he is very sticky right now he is he's just very got a lot of his anxiety he's projecting all his anxiety projecting it onto trying to control the shrine yeah yeah Everything. Everything. But Odo leaves, and then Mora suggests maybe they should analyze the organic strains. Right. And while they wait, Mora shares how much he misses Odo.

And then the results come in. Dax is very good. She's super fast. And the results come in, and the DNA results that they were waiting on, the DNA comparisons are not matching. It doesn't seem like the sample from the... the dirt is the same as this organic stuff. But Dax says, well, maybe we'll look at the DNA match in our database of other life forms. Maybe it's not the dirt, but maybe we'll find out what it is.

But it's going to take a couple hours. So it's not going to be fast. All right. Security office is next. Mora comes into Odo while he's waiting for these to search the database of other life forms. Goes to see Odo and Odo says that the other doctor is going to be fine. shiny hair guy shiny hair matt mackenzie yeah yay and says mora doesn't seem very happy when he gets

this news that the other doctor's going to be fine and uh mora first starts with telling otto what an amazing uh an incredible life form otto is but he says you know what i just saw the organic sample with dax and i've seen it before it's you odo dun dun dun he's busted him he did I thought that's interesting. He didn't tell Dax. He could have said, I know that that sample. I know what that is. That's Odo.

But he didn't say it. Right. So he's protecting Odo here. Right. Yeah. From Dax. From everybody. He wants to go to Odo first and say, what's up, dude?

Yeah. But we come back after another old-fashioned commercial. I'm sorry. Yeah, I need to ask both of you this. So that little thing they found on the planet, a little dirt. was moving around, okay? They brought that back into the lab. That's covered by the Petri Dome, it's in the Petri Dish. It keeps getting bigger. They get a bigger Petri Dome. It eventually escapes.

That is also Odo? That little sample is Odo too? No. No. What is that little sample then? It's not Odo. It's not. What happens to that thing then in this time? I think it dies. So that's the thing that was the goo that fell down and died, is what you're saying, that O'Brien found. all a little confusing it is a little confusing see i thought i thought that that weird dirt turned into odo yes i thought the dirt was turned into a changeling maybe that's a better way of putting it that's i think was the confusing part because the baby changeling and it exploded out and then when o'brien saw the goo come down i thought oh that dirt turned into a changeling and now that's the the residue of that metamorphosis.

But, Robbie, you're saying that dirt died and that glue is the residue of the dead dirt. Because later on they say the dirt and this other organic sample, which is Odo. Odo, organic is Odo. Yes. The dirt, they have some similarities. They could be distant cousins, but they're not the same thing. So I think the dirt was a distant cousin of Odo, but it's not his people. Okay.

it's he's getting close sort of like us and other animals yes not necessarily chimpanzee primates or something yeah other mammals so we might have some but it's yeah it's too far to give oda what he wants well see that's why i was that's why i felt this episode was a little confusing for me honestly ravi it wasn't as clear cut for me yeah this was a you know they needed more dags to explain the science clearly all right let's go yeah so um We come back and Morris telling Odo, he's giving him all this evidence that it's Odo. Odo's been doing this. And basically tells him he's turned into like a Jekyll and Hyde.

And Odo, first of all, Odo wants Bashir to look at him. He panics. And Morris says, Bashir won't understand what's going on with you. I know you best. I've studied you. I'm your dad. I'm your father. They argue this is a great emotional scene.

and I was waiting for this scene to happen. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard for him to hold containment as well. Oh, it is. He's melting at the same time that he's talking and arguing because he's losing it. Yeah. He's losing it.

The makeup through this whole series is genius. Goodness. It's so good. It really plays into the story. It looks so real that it was melting off of him. Yeah. Or that he was melting. He was melting into something else, yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, the more emotionally, gets it's to me it felt like a jekyll and hide pitch yeah this that's what's going on is whatever something has affected him and making him turn into a monster and and when he got emotional it sort of triggered all of this all of this uh the effects me so sad for him i know yeah and at the end when he slams his hand on the console oh and there's like electricity going through them they're

morphing like jackel and hide he's turning into that monster yeah yeah yeah And, and he turns into the monster and screams or, you know, roars at, at, at, at, at Mora and Morr's terrified. And off of that dramatic moment, we go to Ops and they can't reach Odo. They're trying to reach him. Mora arrives, though. He, I thought he was dead in the last scene. I thought he's, he's done.

But somehow he, he got out of there and tells them that this. creature is Odo, what they're looking for is Odo. And he lays it all out, the whole thing. And it sounded to me like a detective, like a detective sort of, you know, laying out a case like Odo would do. Yeah. So you see this father's son sort of, you know, tone. Connection.

Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Cisco decides to set a trap, a force field. He asked Miles, can you build a force field to hold this thing, this monster that's Odo? He wants to do it right on the promenade where he's got room to work. and um and more volunteers to be the bait yeah yeah he's going to be the bait he does say in this scene more says that incident when it when the uh the life form broke out of the thing he thinks that that was an attempt to rescue these life forms so maybe maybe that weird break in the

was caused by odo and pulling the uh the dirt out yeah yeah okay yeah i'll buy that yeah that makes sense so otto's been doing this all along the whole thing every step has been on him yeah we go to the promenade they're preparing cisco tells mora he's not going to have any officers there for backup he doesn't want to scare scare odo so um you know just get him to the force field get him you know walk him back to this force field we've got ready to go and they leave and that's when cisco tells kira everyone needs to set their phasers to maximum stun and and then he says but if that doesn't and bring him down, we then set the phasers to kill. Yeah.

Which Kira's like, Commander, are you sure? I mean, literally, they're saying, kill Lodo is what they're saying. Who she's had the longest relationship with besides quark, right? They've all been there before we got there. Yeah. Very difficult for her. Very difficult. Great suspense shots as they wait, this horror movie moment.

There's all this cuts, you know, shots around the promenade of people getting into position. and waiting. Nervous. All the lights are dim. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really great shot. As they're peering from their hiding places and waiting, they hear the sound, this monster, this kind of massy goo monster drops to the floor and rears up and gets caught by this force field ultimately.

He's backed, you know, more backs him into it. Yeah. I wouldn't even say monster. I'd say blob. It looks like a big blob. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It was a little unfortunate.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel bad for the special effects guy. Totally. Because this episode could have been 30 times better if visual effects were on point. If you think about that, you'd be like, whoa. I mean, this could have been amazing. But they didn't think about how much they spent even with his makeup.

There must have been something else going on. Yeah. Of course. Yes. But this thing bounces around. inside the force field it's it's just terrified and panicking yeah and mora in the midst of this is just heartbroken to see this happening and he says you know i've done it to you again i've made you a prisoner what have i done dear god that was more really cares about he does never intended

yeah to cause that trauma yeah as parents don't yeah we don't intend to smother our children when we over-parent them as they get old enough and we know better to trust them and we still want a parent. And that's when it's time to get a puppy. As Robbie and I both know. He just needed a puppy. But in this scene, you definitely become Team Mora.

Again, you're on his side at this point. You see this, he's going through pain. This is his son, essentially, right? Well, Cisco sees it too. Cisco sees more as pain and the situation, and he says, drop the force field. Right. And O'Brien does. And that's when the creature or this mass turns back into Odo.

And Bashir runs over to save the day. Did you notice when he turns back into Odo, does Odo have a comb badge on? Oh, I don't know. Because he shouldn't, right? If you think about it, if he forms that body, whatever, he's got to put a comb badge on. he doesn't do you think he forms the com badge itself and all the tech oh god that's such a good point no you don't it's an actual electric yeah it's something completely yeah separate from him so if they have him with the combat separate from all of us yes exactly so if he comes back into human form i'm gonna look

yeah because you know otherwise he wouldn't even need the com badge because it would be right in his head exactly exactly always be there yeah all right well but here runs it runs an instrument over him and he's in bad shape. He's going to have to go take care of him. And Morris says at the end of scene, we've got a lot to talk about Odo. Yes, that's an understatement. Yes.

Odo's lying there with his melty face. He'll get up at his mentor slash dad. Okay. But we go in the infirmary. Odo is healed. Basically, we find out all traces of the gas that affected him have been removed. So even though he doesn't have lungs,

he was affected by the gas yeah it attached itself to his cellular yeah but this is the first time we realized that it's the gas that caused him to do this correct absolutely yes so was that the effect was this the time to learn it yes this is i guess it seems a little late but yeah but that's how we just yeah it just kind it just kind of came out of left field for me it was sort of like hey it was the gas that's been removed he'll be fine okay It'll be fine. And how did you remember the gas? 45 minutes ago, we could have.

Dax already knew it, but unfortunately, she wasn't in the scenes. She couldn't tell us that earlier. No. I was out cold from the gas. Yes. There you go. It seems like when they did scans of Odo. Yeah.

When they all first returned, they would have found something. The gas in his, in his. I think they didn't, though. Why would they check him out if they're assuming it was all, an inhaled effect. Yeah, that's an assumption, though. They should have scanned him as well

to see if he was affected. I thought Bashir did scan him, but maybe not. I think that would be the rationale where they could say, well, it makes sense that we didn't know because we just thought he was fine. He said he was fine. He seemed fine. Right.

It would have helped you, Garrett, in this moment, if earlier they had said something like, well, Odo, we scanned you. And even though you don't have lungs, some of the gas was absorbed into your your body, but it should, it should, you know,

dissipate over time and doesn't seem to have affected you. If they had said something like that, it would set this up. In that earlier scene, exactly. Yep. Yeah. But then again,

that if you set that up and all this weird stuff happened, you also might have felt like... Ruin the story. Yeah. Are you kind of, it's, I don't know.

Okay. Like you put it to bed. I mean, mean in 42 minutes the way you tell the story is different than if you haven't two hours okay no i guess my point is the pacing for me was off because it was paced a certain way and then all of a sudden everything's tied up really neatly at the end very quickly it was the gas and everything's fine and he's okay and i'm so sorry that i treated you this way okay sorry dad slash dr mora bye it did feel like a quick a very quick resolution very fast have we come to yet have we no we're there not yet we're

we're at the end i mean we're there we're yeah otto's healed the the gas is gone and then this is odo immediately jumps into apologizing to mora for everything he had no idea that this was him it was dr jekyll or mr hyde or one of the other personalities um and then mora apologizes to otto about right back yeah um and i love how he reaches out he says i would like from time to time if i could contact you we can talk about things that matter i love this he goes from time to time we could about things that matter to you, to us, to you, to us. And then Odo's like, I'd like that. So there's a resolution in their, in their relationship.

It's wonderful. Yeah. They've squashed whatever ill feelings that were there before, I think. So it's a nice thing. Well, Moro's great in this scene because when Odo says, you know, I'm really sorry, I had no idea. And Morris says, you had to speak in a voice loud enough for me to hear. Yes.

Like he's acknowledging. That's the key. I think so, too. Yeah. Yeah, because that's when Dr. Mora realizes, oh, he'd been handling it all wrong. Yeah, from day one. Yeah. And if you look at it sort of with that lens of watching a teenager, Odo's older than that.

But if you think about it, if he's made his appearance try to mimic Mora, and he's acting out in this episode like a teenager that's trying to get their independence who, never had their, never individuated. Yeah. You know, he's always been attached and, and it feels lost and alone and misunderstood. And I know, oh, Robbie, don't. When you do that, you're going to make me cry. Because Robbie's like a sweet teddy bear. Robbie's a sweet teddy bear.

I told you. I'm in touch with my feelings. He is. Can we start a fantasy football league? He worked his ass off to get there. be your nickname sweet teddy bear 92 whatever that'll be my intro sweet teddy bear 64 well that'll be your oh godly i hope that's okay your other host is robert duncan mcneill aka sweet teddy bear 64 there he is i love it well i love that i love the the happy ending it does feel like

there's great character growth for otto in this and for us for the audience for the audience For the audience. Yeah. Okay. What is your lesson or moral of this story, Robbie McNeil, and then Terry and then me? I have two lessons. My first lesson would be don't steal people's stuff. Or don't beam people stuff away?

Okay. Don't steal their shrines and their dirt. In their dirt. All right, that's lesson one. What's lesson two? lesson two was getting people to truly hear you is not easy getting you know that you have to do some work to really find a way to communicate honestly what you're feeling because odo couldn't he didn't know how to do it he had to turn into a monster to do it yeah and that's not a great solution you know

turning into a monster better to to find a better way to you know a less dramatic way Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Terry? Well, mine was never assume. Because you've known someone, never assume they're in the same place they were at the last time you were with them. Oh. Because people grow.

Yeah. And to go on to the heel of getting people to truly hear you is not easy. It's, I think that also goes with taking responsibility for your own. self-awareness, your feelings, articulating how you feel. So on that, getting people to truly hear you, it isn't easy. But if you also haven't done emotional work, you're worked on your trauma or who you are and how do you want to express yourself and move through the world, if you haven't done those things, well, then you're going to miss out too.

Because people can't read your mind. You have to express who you are, what you want, what you need to be, you know, your whole self. You need to trust yourself and respect yourself. And put yourself first in that respect. Because if you don't know who you are, you're not going to find out who somebody else is, really, if you're always hiding who you are. Yeah, it makes me think of a friend of mine, said something once stuck with me. he said there's only three things that we're responsible for in life what we do what we say and what we feel and i was like yeah i was like okay i get the first two but what i feel that's not my

responsibility he was like no it actually is yeah you have to understand what you're feeling and then how that affects what you do and what you say yeah that's the only things you're you know you have ways of because you can control how you react to how you feel but you can can't control how you feel. But if you know that feeling is a moment that you're being triggered, then you know it's not about the person that you're having this experience right now with. Yeah. But they're making you relive something from the past. Now, if you've done your trauma work, you can still feel that and kind of go, okay, I could say to you, Robbie, I know this isn't you. I am feeling triggered right now. Yeah. Can I just go take a minute to regulate and

then can we continue the conversation? Because I need to get back in my body. That's not something that people who haven't gone through therapy or were a 12-step or any kind of, I don't know, self-education. Yeah. How else do I put that? Yeah. They don't have that available.

And Odo certainly has not done any trauma work. No, right. And they should be pretty good at EMDR and all that trauma. Therapy by then. PTSD should be like, we can figure that out. Yeah. Stick around. There's lots more after this message from our sponsor.

Garrett, what about you? What's your lesson? Sure. Just really for everyone to be diligent about refraining from pushing those hardships of life and emotions deeper and deeper down and not dealing with them. Yeah, which is pretty much what happened in this episode for Oda. Yeah. He just had all this stuff pent up.

And we're lucky that when he did explode, no one, we had no casualties. Yeah, it could have been much worse. Could have been much worse. Oh, yeah. Where he could have been killed. We would have really missed Bashir. Exactly. When people snap, usually there's casualties and it's not a good thing.

So really, the lesson from this episode is just, please do not push your emotions down and suppress them. You must deal with them. Process them. Process them. Yeah. And a lot of times, if you don't have the money to even, let's just say that you can't see a therapist a once a week. Write down what you're feeling. It's really weird.

But when you write, putting it on paper for some reason gives you a whole other perspective. And you see and you can actually see the matrix, quote unquote, when you write things down. It's part of it for sure. It's a way of therapy in a way, you know, to write. Talking about it too, gets it to your prefrontal lobe so that you're aware of what you're feeling. Agreed. But if you have no one to talk about with it. You know, if there's no one close enough to you that you can talk about, if you're a loner and you need to, I'm just saying writing down can be.

Writing it down is good. There's also, like, if you don't have a therapist or money for therapy, there's affinity groups. There's groups. Oh, true. 12 steps. Yes. You know, 12 step is probably the most well-known. That's free.

But there's all kinds of, you know, women's groups, men's groups. Yes. There are hotlines you can call. Right. So there are resources where no one has to spend a dollar on, correct? And they can get us. Absolutely. 100%.

Good. Agreed. Now, our Patreon poll winner for the theme and moral of this episode is submitted by Anne. Family is complicated. Yes, it is, Anne. Thank you. That's definitely the theme, not really a moral, but a theme of this episode. Family is complicated.

Family is very complicated. Okay. All right. Well, thank you, everyone for tuning into this episode. of our podcast. Join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode Armageddon game with

none other than our intelligent and super fast science officer, Dax, aka Terry Farrell, joining us and hosting for that one. Woo-woo. All right. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and a little

bit of more of that super fast science officer, Terry Farrell. I'm going to be able to be.