The Delta Flyers - The Begotten

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, The Begotten, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Armin Shimerman.The Begotten: Deep Space Nine celebrates the birth of the O'Brien baby, as Odo and Dr. Mora struggle to save the life of a Changeling infant.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Nicki T, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jenny Cordina, Izzy Jaffer, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Chris Garis, Sean T, Cindy Woodford, & Tamara Evans. Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Neil McRae, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Matt Norris, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Robby Hill, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, & Jeff Allen.And our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Sab Ewell, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Kelly Brown, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Robert Allen Stiffler, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Kilian Trapp, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Andrew Golden, Rebecca Long, Daniel Friend, Damien O’Donnell, & Michael BourguignonThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts for today are my fellow Trek actors Arm and Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNille, and myself, Garrett Wong. For the complete and exciting and really super cool version of this podcast, please check out Patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers. sign up to become an amazing patron today. You guys are getting very good at this. Yeah, we're sort of, you know, giving it a little extra swag. I was riffing a little bit.

I was jazzing it up because I was thinking of being a little Cisco. Yeah, you were with, especially with your. Your. That was very Cisco. Did I pull both of you in? Yes, you did. I didn't know when it was going to end. I should have added a, I should have added a Cisco,

woo, at the end. Uh-huh. Something like that would have been. Good. Okay. Here we are. Good to see you, Armin. Nice to see you. Yes, yes. Nice to be seen. I like your sweatshirt. I know. That sweatshirt looks very good on you. For those of you who are listening, Armin is wearing his Delta Flyers defiant hoodie, which is a beautiful design. And I'm very defiant. Yes, you are. And it's comfortable, isn't it? It's very comfortable. I actually wear it quite a bit. I'm not just wearing it for this, but I wear it quite a bit because it's very, very comfortable.

I mean, that's one of the things, Armand, that we always try to go for is the highest quality fabric and comfort that we can find. It's no use getting an itchy, you know, sweatshirt or t-shirt. We don't want that. It's really comfortable stuff. Yes. Check it out on the Delta Flyers store. Everybody. Yes, at the delta flyers.org, you can go and check out our store.

T-shirts, sweatshirts. Do we have mugs still on there? Poetry books? I don't know. You know, I'm not sure that we have a. ton right now and that's a reminder for people to check it out because we do sell out we don't have millions of things it's not endless and we make these unlike some of the t-shirt or sweatshirt companies that sort of make it as it's ordered we get good quality stuff and uh and just order what

we order so yeah get it before it's gone well we have some birthdays we need to go through right now so yes we do yeah so let's just start off right now by saying on february 26 that is let's mentioned the actual day. February 26th is a wonderful day because that is a day that Matt Edmonds was born. Happy birthday, Matt. Happy birthday, Matt. We also have on March 7th, Stacey Davis was born on March 7th. Happy birthday, Stacey. Happy birthday, Stacey. Oh, it's going to be a very long episode. Garrett's going to elongate all the vowels today. All the words, yes. Okay. Robbie, let's hear your wonderful limerick.

I struggled with this limerick a little bit. You always say that and you never ever struggled. You lie. Lately, I've been on a roll. I've just like found my groove, but this one was a little trickier. So we'll see how it lands. It's hard to write and drive as far as you've driven this week.

Yes, that's true. That's true. A lot of driving and traveling and moving and yes. All right, here we go. my limerick for the begotten. Odo said, I will parent this goo. Mora wanted to help. Odo said, F you.

Mora's style dominate. Odo's style validate. Now shape-shifting's only part of what's new. This is one of my favorite. Yes. Because I got FU in there. It's just so different. It's so different.

And so good, too. Oh, really? Yes. It started with, I will parent this goo. I could elongate the vowel and say, Odo said, I will parent this goo. If you're going to start with that, why don't you start with the first vowel? Odo said, I will parent this goo like that. Hoohoo!

Okay. No, I think you did a good job. I do like it. It's actually quite, it's very economical in terms of the amount of words you used. It's almost the size of a haiku in a way. Like Mora style. Dominate. Odo style.

Validate. It's like a, it's very concise. Haikuish. Haikuish. Very good. All right. Here we go. Here is my haiku for the begotten.

Quark sells a changeling. Dr. Mora offers help. Odo complete now. You got the vowel, the long vowel on there. I did. I did. And the whole gist of the story. as well. Thank you. Yes, you do. Next up, Armin with his etymology. Thank you. Thank you.

McGotten obviously comes from the word baguette, and the source of begette is Teutonic and Old English. And it actually sounds a little like begetten, begitten, begitin. Begette would have been pronounced in old English, beiet, beiet, as opposed to begette. The definition, for beget and begotten is procreated and the first use of that word was in 1382. I also want to say this is the wrong word for this episode. Oh.

Begotten means procreated, as I just said, and that means something that was created and established. But in this episode, the two babies, if we can call them that, were not begotten by anyone. The Kira baby is not hers. She's just a carrier. And we don't know who begot the changeling baby.

But there is one third person, I'm getting ahead of myself, but there is one third person that was begotten. Garrett referred to that in his haiku, and that is Odo. Odo is begotten at the end of the episode. Oh. Hmm. Interesting. Interesting perspective.

I love that. So then the title would just refer to... Should be unbegotten. Oh, yeah. Should be unbegotten. That's what I put in my notes. It should be unbegotten. For Odo, who is begotten.

Hmm. I like that. Thank you. Begett. We should use begotten and beget more in our daily lives if we can. Well, we learn from Armin, all of the deep meaning of these words,

and it makes them more useful to us. Like, I think one reason people don't use some of these words, you know, any more or as time goes by, they forget what the connections are and the meanings of them are and yeah thanks armin when when i study foreign languages the words that i study are the ones i remember because i'm studying them and i'm using them when i'm trying to learn new languages um but all the other words because i don't use them are forgotten so because we don't use them they become forgotten yeah um i i understand

from my shakespeare studies that shakespeare used exponentially more words than the normal human being ever uses, mainly because words were being created at that time, and they were having great time making words up. I was going to pick an old-fashioned word and use it during this. Okay. So I'm going to pick, I'm looking up words that have been forgotten. Oh. I wish.

I love the word it whiz. What does that mean? God, I used to know. A wish is, I think. I wiss. Oh. Forgive me if I'm wrong. I think it's what it is.

It wiss. I think. Shakespeare uses it. It wish your granddad had a worser match, Richard of third says. Oh, nice. I wish. I have a word I may use during this podcast. It's a forgotten word that needs to be, needs to come back.

And it is the word brabble. Brable. I don't know brabble. Brable means to argue or discuss something loudly that is unimportant to brabble. So I think, during. this podcast, we will find ourselves brabbling about something unimportant. And I'm going to use that word. I'm just giving you a heads up. I'm going to bring back the word brabble in this podcast. I think we should make a brabble t-shirt now, Robbie? I really do. We are going to brabble along.

Defiant brabler's. Defiant bravlers. The begotten brabbler's. Okay. All right. Let's brabble. Let's talk about who wrote this, written by Renee Escheria, directed by, by Jesus Salvador Trevignon. And we have guest stars, Rosalind Chow, Keiko O'Brien. We also have Duncan Riger as Shakar. Peggy Roder as Yipora. We have James Sloan as Dr. Mora. Now, a little bit of trivia for you guys.

Okay. In the original draft of the teleplay, Kira was fine with giving the baby up to the O'Brien's. But Nana Visitor thought this was unrealistic. She believed that Kira would feel an attachment to the child. So she asked Ira Stephen Bear to change the script, which resulted in the final scene of the episode, the one between Kira and Odo. So that's a case of, wow. Interesting timing, because she had just had her baby a month before this.

Correct. So I'm sure when she reads the script and is reading about, you know, oh, I don't, I'm not attached to this baby. sure she had feelings about that totally makes sense but she just went through it so she felt just major attachment with her own child yeah how could I possibly carry a baby I don't care if it's biologically my baby or not even carrying this baby yeah it's also interesting to me uh as far as politics goes in the seven years that I worked on the show except for Avery I never realized anyone else had the ability to go to the writers and change a script I know Renee if he did I never heard about it. And this is news to me about, about Nana.

Next up, under trivia, Renee Obijunois has stated in interviews that this was one of the most memorable episodes he ever filmed for this show. And it is a memorable performance as well. Yeah. I read, very much so. Next bit of trivia, this is the first time in the series that Terry Farrow does not appear in an episode. So, no Dax. What's... Wow. Yeah, that's a first and very... And no moll. either. It's interesting to me that there's no Molly. Yes. Yes. I didn't even think of that. You're absolutely right. No Molly. And also no Sirak Lofton. Well, it's interesting. Those two characters, Jake and Molly kind of line up with what I think is missing. We'll get into it as we talk about the episode. But yeah, yeah, that's interesting. All right. Well, let's dive into it.

Yeah. Just a quick addendum. I feel like that would be a great name for a restaurant. Jake and Molly's, I don't know. Just, it's on my head. Okay. Did you know that Sirach was a restaurant tour? Yes, that's why I thought about that. I did not know that. I'm very, I'm very dismayed that I never was able to go there. I did.

It was very good. Food was good, yes? Yeah. Wasn't Sirach's restaurant in Culver City-ish area? Yes, it was in Culver City. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a bummer I didn't get to go.

But you were able to support him there, so that's good. Yeah. Happy to do it. Yeah. He's a wonderful man. He is. It is. It's so wonderful to me.

to see how that 14-year-old when I met him or actually even younger grew up to be such an extraordinary man. He's just extraordinary. He's just, whenever he speaks, I'm all ears. It's just incredible. Yeah, I agree. Let's jump into this, Robe. Let's do.

We start in the infirmary, and Odo enters the infirmary. He's kind of in pain or something. Basically, he's got to, he thinks he's dying. But Bashir tells him. you've got a pinch nerve, but Oda is very dramatic in this scene. I like that Bashir suggests that he needs to do Wharf's stretching class, which I didn't know Worf had a stretching class, but I'd love to see that scene with Worf running a stretching class.

I think that'd be funny. But Quark arrives. He's got something in his hands that he traded for, and it's this container with some goo inside or something. We don't see right away. He keeps it a secret for a while. Yes, keeps it a secret. But it's a changel.

in this small container because Odo says at the end of the scene it's a baby. But Cork thinks he's dead. The Changeling is dead. Because it's black and it's dark. It's so funny now that Odo is a human, that he's dealing with human issues and problems.

So this whole beginning scene when he comes in hobbling and his back is hurting, whatever. It just kind of reminds me of my life when I turned 50 and all my joints and everything failing. Very relatable. Very, very. I think the writers purposely do that to remind you, because God knows, both Terry and I forgot, we discussed this once, we both forgot that Odo had lost his abilities for a while. And the writers needed to remind the audience that Odo was human, and certainly aches and pains are humans.

Right. Just a quick, quick little reminder for everybody. Well, later on, after the opening credits, we see that this blue or black goo is on top of something. kind of pulsing device, but now it's turned orange. It's starting to turn orange. Cisco is there. He is fascinated by this baby. Bashir explains that it was exposed to massive amounts of tetrion radiation. That's why it was that blue, black color, but it's coming back. It was exposed to massive amounts of tetrion radiation, and he's going to have to purge the isotopes with an electrophoretic diffuser. Ooh, that's a mouthful, yeah. Yes.

Poor shit. He got a lot of those. He did. He did. But he did well. He did well with that techno. He did. He was good with it.

Yeah. He was. Odo says that when he came to the Alpha Quadrant, he was the same size, but he grew. And Cisco suggests in the scene, we should turn it over to Starfleet to learn about changelings. Cisco suggests Dr. Mora, but Odo sort of pauses. He's like, no. No. I would prefer to do this.

alone and Cisco ends the scene saying it's Odo's call whatever he wants to do now there's a presumption in there that rankles me there's a word uh... rankles me i like it nice are you going to babble right now i'm going to bramble brabble brabble bramble bramble bramble brabble quark has some merchandise yes he sells it to Odo who buys it whether he wants whether he knows he's bought or not that's neither here nor there but he does buy it it is not Starfleet merchandise. It is Odo's possession. Odo, although he works on the station, is not Starfleet. Why does Starfleet have any say about this item that belongs to Odo?

He's bought it. It's his. It's his possession or whatever. Maybe you can't call it Ascension being a possession, but it's his. Starfleet has no No right to tell Odo what to do with his merchandise. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's more complicated than just Starfleet decides. That's right. They have to negotiate with him.

They have to ask. They have to ask and say, can we examine him? You can't presume that because Starfleet wants it, they now can take it. I agree. That's a valid quibble. That's a bramble. Brable. Brable.

Yeah, you brabbled on. Yeah, it was a good. Brabble. I liked it. I also noticed in this scene, Odo has a line where he says, what better way to gauge another race than to see how it treats the weak and vulnerable, which I really liked. I like that perspective. It's very Starfleet. It's from Odo's personal experience. You know, he was weak and vulnerable when he arrived. But I like that they threw in that perspective in the scene. A little later, we're still in the, where were we like the science lab? Sick Bay or Science Lab.

It's hard for me to tell the difference in those sets sometimes. Yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't, in my notes, it's sometimes sickbay. It's sometimes science lab. Yeah. It's hard to tell. Maybe the science lab is just an offshoot of sick bay. Maybe it's a corner.

I think it's a redress sick bay. Since we can't figure it out, can we just call it sick lab, which is the both of them? It is a sick lab. It's so sick. Well, a little later, the goo is in the cylinder, but it's orange. now and Bashir says he's cleared nearly all the radiation looks much better. It's going to be fine. Bashir seems very confident that there's nothing else wrong with this and the baby's fine. So Bashir leaves and then Odo talks to the baby and one of the first kind of speeches that

Odo has in this about his experience. I loved what Renee did with these speeches. They were beautiful. It talks about how he was alone and scared when he arrived as a baby, but it's not going to be like that for the baby. It's not going to, he's going to do it differently. And he takes it to show it something special at the end of the scene. Yeah, which is, you know, the classic sort of speech that parents make, I'm going to do better than my parents. I'm not going to make the same mistakes they did. So it was very touching for sure. A little bit of trivia here to get the right substance to serve as the baby changeling. The production crew spent several weeks in research and development, According to producer Steve Oster, Gary Monach and his crew had to come up with goo of the right color and consistency that would hold its form for a moment and then fall down and ooze around.

We spent many a night sitting here with different textures and viscosity of goo trying to decide what would work for what. Gary Monach explains that ultimately a variety of substances were used. For the beginning stages, we used gelatin mixed with some other stuff. We also used a plastic that's referred to as hot melt vinyl, which you can heat up and mold. And we made up some goo that's basically like the stuff they pour on people on Nickelodeon television. Yeah. Slime. Slime.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, because you needed the goo to do different things at different times. Yeah. So they had different batches of goo is what they used for this. And I wonder if, did you notice there were a couple times where the camera started in tight and Odo would pour the goo off camera. and then the camera would pull back and you'd see it in a dish

or in a thing. A couple of times that kind of method was used. And I wondered if when he was pouring, there was a prop guy just under the camera catching the liquid goo that he poured out. And then as the camera pulled back, the prop guy might clear and you would have a different goo preset.

Already preset ready to go. Yeah. Because the viscosity that you're talking about in this trivia probably were very different. The kind of goo that pours is going to be different than the goo. That is settled inside. That is settled somewhere. Yeah.

So, yeah. Possible. Very possible. Interesting. Yeah. For those listening, I want to tell everyone, yes. The Odo in this episode is the Odo is the René version noir that I remember. Hmm.

This is as close to the real Renee as you're going to get. Okay. Oh, yeah. His sort of speaking, as you just said, to the changeling and his kindness and his nurturing, I can, as I watch that scene, I could picture him talking to Tessa and Remy, his children, in the same tone of voice. Oh. That's awesome. But before the monologue with the baby goo, Bashir does say to Odo, oh, I better go check on Kira.

Did you hear? She's in labor. And Odo's like, mm-hmm, he doesn't even turn his head. He's like, he's still staring. He's so focused on the little baby changing that this pregnancy of his best friend and crush does not even matter. Yeah, it's interesting, Armin, in the last episode we did with Terry and Nana, there was chemistry between those two that was the most naturalistic and grounded and palpable that

I'd ever seen on the show. So it's interesting in that episode to feel this connection that we, was so authentic and true. And then in this episode, yeah, he doesn't seem to be, he's definitely in his own story track. He's not thinking about Kira and Kira having a baby, which is fine. Yeah, that's okay, right?

They're consummate actors. Yes. Give them a plot, they will perform it. Focus on that, yeah. And that and give them a different plot and they focus on that. Yeah. And there was a palpable chemistry

between Renee and Nana. Yeah. Right. Well, we go to the birthing room next, and this birthing room, it starts with a close-up on a, like a shaker thing, almost like a rain stick or something, a rattle being, I was like, what is? I thought that was what Odo was showing the baby with a baby rattle, but then you pull back and you realize, no, it's a birthing room. The rattles are going. Miles is hitting a gong, but it's the most pathetic sounding gong. And you think, bang, it's not relaxing at all.

No, it's just a, it's a bit of a pathetic scene. It's just sad to see this. It's just what's happening right now. It's almost comical, right? It's almost. It's almost comical. I think it was meant to be comical, but it's almost. It's almost con.

I wish they had gone further. I wish they had to. Miles is impatient with this process, this Bajoran relaxation process. Bashir is wearing like some Bajoran stole or something. It looked like a talus to me. It did. Those of you know, Talas is a prayer shawl that worn in Judaism. And except that it was tied at the bottom.

It was very much looked like a tallest. Yeah. O'Brien sneezes in the scene to interrupt the peace and quiet. Like it had comic potential and it was comedy adjacent but didn't quite go far enough. Right. It's very, I'm going to just brag. It's very hard to do. comedy on Star Trek. Yes, it is. Well, they're waiting for Shakar, so they're trying to keep her

relaxed and wait for Shakar to arrive, which I kind of struggled with the importance of Shakar here. Exactly. Yeah. It's not his baby. We don't see him constantly. We don't see the romance between them. You know, that's not something that we're really fully aware of all the time. I don't see why. I understand why they needed him for episode for the comedy. But it just didn't, it didn't make sense. No. And they really wasted their money because the prior episode, the darkness and the light,

was all about the Shakar cell members being targeted and they didn't have Shakar in that episode. So if they had taken the money that they paid him for this episode and put him in the prior one and omitted him from this episode, that would have been just fine. I think that would have been great. Yeah. But they wanted the standoff between Miles and Chikar. I get it.

So that was that. I get it. But they could have had standoff dialogue between Miles and Kako or just anyone else. You didn't have to have Chakar, is my point, I feel. Yeah. It might have been funny if they could have woven a way for it to be a standoff between Miles and Sid and Dr. Bashir. Because obviously it's his wife.

having the baby. Yes. Yes, yes. Well, Bashir's getting very impatient. He's got three surgeries to do. So he leaves. He says he'll be back. Then Shakar does arrive. Miles hits the gong very loudly there at the end, which that was funny. It worked. Could have been more, though. Could have been bigger. We sort of button it with Chakar's arrival. And now we go to the Replomat, and Odo is talking to the orange goo changeling now, explaining about the station. I did feel like Jesus really got into the Odo changeling connection. His shots as he, you know, kind of wrapped around or was in tight revealing that connection. It always felt very intimate and was really nicely done.

Yes. Still, the funniest line is when Worf says, constable, why are you talking to your beverage? And then after Odo says, it's not a beverage, he leaves. and then freaking Michael stares at his own drink thinking, wait a minute, could this be a changeling? I like that. I thought that was a great. That was funny. I laughed out loud, which I don't normally laugh literally out loud.

I laughed at Worf's line. Where are you talking to your beverage? We go back to the science lab or the sick lab. The sick lab. Wherever we are, Odo pours the baby into a large dish. This is one of those moments where he poured it off camera and then it pulled it. hold back. And we see that the goo is in a large dish. Great circular shot going around and around as Odo talks to. Yeah, I love that photography. That was really quite, quite good. And he's basically

saying, you've got unlimited potential. He's telling the baby. You could be a Philly and Python. You could be a hawk. You could be anything you want to be. It was that sort of like optimistic, you know, the world's your oyster kind of speech to your kid. This is one of the rare times that I feel the circular shot works. I've seen it done so many times in film and TV where it does not. And I would say 95% of time, it does not work. But this time with the dialogue, with just everything that happened, it was so seamless, I guess. It didn't jar me.

Like, I'm like, a lot of times I'm like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? I'm just dizzy now. But this one, it worked quite well. Yeah, it was great. It was great. Maura, Dr. Mora, arrives at the end of the scene. Odo is shocked and doesn't know why he's here.

And Morris says, well, I heard about your changeling. I'm here to help. Uh-oh. We go to a commercial, we come back. Mora's very excited to work on the baby changeling. He's taken weeks off of work just to stay here and do the work. And we all know the work he did with Odo was not very pleasant. So, yeah, there's going to be some conflict.

Odo says he's absolutely fine. Morris says you don't know anything about teaching a baby how to shape shift. And then he pulls out this kind of gun-looking thing. And Odo yells to stop. And Odo says, no, I'm going to do this alone. And Mora mentions, well, you don't know what you're doing. The temperature is wrong in here. And they talk about the temperature of the room.

And Odo says, you know, why would I do that? We'll let the baby do it on its own. And Morath does start to show that he says, well, it would be easier for the baby if you change the temperature. Why not make it easier? And so you see a bit of like, oh, Odo didn't think of that. Like he doesn't have that information. So Mora does know some things that can actually not just hurt the baby, but actually help the baby and make it easier. I will say that for me in this scene, now that I knew from the dialogue that Dr. Moore really really spent a lot of time, you know, getting the temperature right, all these things.

because before this episode, all we know is Mora was the guy that was working with Odo. Mora was the one that did tests that were painful to Odo. So, yeah, so we kind of felt like, okay, was he a bit sadistic? Was he, you know, was he someone that, you know, wasn't very? So there was more of a negative image or viewpoint that I had about Mora until this episode where I thought, oh my gosh, he's just a scientist. And he truly wants to help. He does, he's not trying to hurt anybody.

He doesn't try, he doesn't want to hurt anyone at least. Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is a wonderful comparison between parents and children, which is most of the story, parents and children. But in this case, with the parent being a child and how the grandparent, if we can call it that, right. To see the relationship of a grown adult dealing with his parents.

Yes. Basically more as his parents. And I love that. I love the fact that we get several generations. And I have to give kudos to James Sloy. And I love the way he meticulously worked the arc of this character. Yes. The scene being the, I mean, he's not a villain.

We are to assume that he is a villain in the beginning. And because of Odo's response to him. But we begin to see there's more to him than what Odo thinks about him, which again is what grown children sometimes think of their parents. You have to really get to know the parents and can't just trust the adult child for their opinions. I mean, at this point in our story, we're still on Odo's perspective.

We're still, we don't think that more is a good guy. We think he's a bad guy and that's what we've heard. And it's very relatable to jump a little more to the end, though. You're right. This is a very relatable parent-child, generational kind of story about the kind of black and white stories we tell ourselves about our parents or about the kids or about, you know, that there's a lot more gray in those relationships. And sometimes our parents, when we're adults, really do have good ideas that we should listen to.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah, this is definitely an episode that I feel resonated with most people that are human, that are in families that are multi-generational. I think by the end of this episode, the story is strong and relatable and clear and really good. I will say, and we're just early in this episode talking about it, I will say I struggled with a lot of this early stuff in the episode. I felt like it was just vamping.

It was kind of, I wasn't clear of the thesis and what they were trying to do. And I certainly didn't feel like the action and the plot was happening fast enough to keep my attention. By the end of the episode, I was like, wow, that was great. But I would say three quarters of this episode to me is soft. So you, what you're saying is when you're watching the first half or two thirds of this episode, you're thinking, stop beating around the bush. Please get to a little bit. Or have something significant change. Well, for me, the change was happening. Perhaps it was a little bit more obvious to me that perhaps

it was to you was the slow change of Odo's opinion of Mora. Yes. So dealing with the changeling, with the baby changeling, yes, that took its time. But it needed to, it needed to, you know, to matriculate. It needed to grow. And it was a slow process. If they could do it very quickly, the whole story would be thrown out. So that didn't bother me so much.

What I really enjoyed was watching the relationship between, father and son between mora and odo and how that slowly came to a better place yes yeah well let's go to our b story in the birthing room yeah we start with chakar standing by some kind of sculpture that looks ceremonial to me what was that thing is that was we've got gongs we've got rattles we've got rainsticks we've got sculptures but we don't have as comedy we and and by the way if this had really been more stronger comedy, it would have helped the slow pace of that A story. Okay. If there had just been wackiness happening constantly in this B story, I would have had the patience

for the A story's slow unraveling. Yeah. But because this B story was a little underwhelming in terms of the comedy and the action, I was like... You're right. The pacing of the B story sort of balance. out the A story, you would appreciate it that much more. It's one of the things I learned while doing the show that for it to have a little bit

more comic effect, you have to pace it up. Yeah. Yeah. You have to move a little quicker than normal because you have to stay ahead of your audience. Well, Shikar's in the birthing room, standing by this weird sculpture. Kira's labor has taken too long. and Yopora says you're not going to have the baby for days, maybe even for weeks now. And Yipora offers to Kira, you can go to Bashir, speed things up.

But Kira wants to do this the traditional way. And Yerpor says, okay, well, we'll come back to this later. And as she leaves, she tells Shakar to be punctual next time. It's his fault because they were delaying. It was a good moment for her. Yeah. You be punctual and tells Miles, practice the gong, which was, you know funny comedy adjacent yeah i'm just a little confused about that that statement when

yippora says you were in labor too long so does that mean four bajorans you're in labor and if you don't start pushing or whatever a certain time you miss the window and then you have to wait another there's something about the hormones it's said in the episode and i have written down somewhere but um about that if the hormones over accumulate and therefore are destructive to the fetus oh Yeah, for whatever reason you weren't able to fully relax because your car wasn't there. Because Miles was not playing the gong, right. Your system had to stop producing endorphins before they accumulated to toxic levels. Right.

So that's the reason. Okay, okay, there it is. We go to the science lab. What do we call it? We could say science bay or sick lab. You can choose. Sick lab. Sick lab.

We go back to the sick lab. Moore is watching Odo trying to coax the baby into shape shifting. He's trying different. shapes, different boxes, and he's talking to the baby this whole time. This is a sphere, this is a cube, all this stuff. But the baby, he pours in the goo and dumps it out and the baby just is goo. It's not holding shape. He talks to Mora about how Mora tried to coerce him. He uses the word coerce me into changing shape. And it was painful. He remembers when he first forced Odo into taking the shape of a cube with one of his electrostatic gadgets. And once he finally did it, Mora turned the

infernal thing off. So another reminder about you were prodding me. You were, you were, you know, creating pain. Electrocuting me is what it was, yes. But isn't that what coaches do? They, they force you into painful situations to make you a better athlete. Yeah. To make you a better, you know. So you can push beyond your limits. Yeah, push beyond your But in Odo's mind, it's torture. You tortured me. You're right. It's just his torture.

And that's the beauty of this episode. We come to realize, you know, that torture had a purpose. It wasn't just torture. I think that there's a montage at this point. There's cylinder in the mirror. There's other shapes, spiral shapes. But the baby is just goo still, not doing anything. A little later after this montage, we see Morriscan the baby with a tricorder.

He's getting impaled. patient, Odo doesn't like it. He's just using a tricorder or whatever the medical device. Even just scanning it is too much, too invasive for Odo, doesn't like it. And this leads them to an argument over the past. Odo's very resentful about all the painful things he went through. And he describes it in detail in this scene, which I thought was very helpful to us because we're really hearing not just general things, but he's bringing up all these specific examples. And Morris says that he did it because he was under pressure to come up. with something you know he was being pressured from the outside to get answers to have some

success pressured by whom i don't know because it can't be starfully was it no it can't be starkly was it the pejoran science academy cardassians cardassians yeah maybe cardassians yeah they wanted to find the answer and he tells odo your technique is going to take forever and this is when in the middle of this heated argument they're both going at each other at otto saying well why don't you just do this and why don't you do that cisco walks in That was, the timing was very funny. Yeah, the low blows came out here, right? Yeah.

Morris says, if it wasn't for me, you'd still be sitting on a shelf somewhere in a beaker labeled unknown sample because his name means unknown, right? Yeah. No, it says, well, if it wasn't for me, you'd be a nobody. So they're, the lowest of low. It's personal. It's starting to get personal. Very much so.

Yeah. That's when Cisco walks in. Family dynamics. Yeah. Cisco's like, how's everything going, guys? They're kind of silent. And Cisco says Starfleet really wants some progress soon. Starfleet should keep its nose out of this.

Yeah, this is where... This is what you were saying earlier. If he purchased this, this is his property, correct? Why is Starfleet having to have daily reports about this? After Cisco leaves, Morris says, see, you know, now you understand the kind of pressure that I was going through. And he says, I brought all my old equipment. Maybe it's time we start unpacking some of that. So it looks like Odo's not going to get to do this all alone.

No. And it's a moment where Odo realizes, you know, there's another side to this argument. He understands for a moment what the pressure that Mora had been under. And it's the arc of Odo's coming to understand what Morrow was doing, that he isn't a villain, that he just had complications, that Odo wasn't really aware of. The earlier scene where he's talking to him about the different shapes, I just wanted to bring light to Renee's line that he wrote. He says, all right now.

Odo says, all right now, this is a pyramid. It's one of the most mysterious shapes in nature. I just like him drawing attention to that because I do believe that that is exactly right. It is a sacred shape, actually. You're not supposed to willy-nilly just build a tree. Don't they say that like aliens brought the pyramid shape to Earth or something.

Yes. And that there are matching pyramids on the moon as well. So it's kind of weird. Yeah. Well, we're on Mars. Mars of the moon I can remember. There are matching pyramids around the world.

So different cultures came up with the same thing. So maybe it was seated around the world. Yeah. The luck I was going to say the Luxor Hotel in Las Vegas is pyramid shape. And you can find online. They say that when you build a pyramid, because it is sacred shape, you must place the eye of Horace

or drawing or some representation of the eye of horace at the very top, top, top block, that little pinnacle. Because if you don't do that, then you bring all types of craziness upon yourself. So they're saying the Las Vegas Valley is cursed because the Luxor doesn't have.

Damn you, Luxor. Exactly. One of the things that's mentioned in passing, and I think actually is a little Easter egg for the ending. Moro says

he's only grown 17%. In other words, and we are to assume it's because it isn't responding the way he did in the way Odo responded in Morris Lab. But I do think that

Easter egg suggests that there's something still slightly wrong with the childling baby. I didn't catch it, but it tracks. I love that they track. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. When they're paying attention to that kind of stuff.

And then when you look back at it, you're like, oh, yeah, make sense. All right, a little later, still in the sick lab. Mora's equipment is set up. Otto pours them into the dish. Another one of those pour off camera pullback moments. Got it. I also liked, and I felt it preemptively, and I was right about it. He and Mora switch places.

Mor is at one side Odo's at the other at the top of the scene And then as Odo starts to get to work He switches places blocking wise with Mora Which to me was sort of a foreshadowing of Oh now Odo's going to be behaving He's taking the role that Mora had It's going to be doing the things that Mora did

Yeah Which I thought was just a little detail But great blocking Yeah great that's a great catch Yeah I did not catch that one Yeah so they switch places and Odo now is going to reluctantly try Mora's techniques, a little electricity,

and he gives him a little electricity, trying to encourage him to go to the center of this big petri dish, doesn't move. Morris says, it's going to take more. You're going to have to turn it up if you want to get, you know, the results. Yep, and Odo reluctantly agrees, turns it up a little, and it works. Mora was right.

Yeah. And Odo's thrilled to see the, the baby do something for the very first time. He's smiling ear to ear. And Morris says, you know, that's how I felt when I, when you first moved. Yeah. That kind of joy. So in spite of the electricity, the prodding, it brings this result that's very satisfying.

The ends justify the means. Yeah. Right. But again, this, the specificity of this scene, of how this. whole test is conducted makes more less of a monster. So you're sitting here going, oh, because before I thought he had a cattle prod and he was like, yeah, that's how Odo described it. It was like a nightmare.

Like he was literally being shocked, shock, electro shock, torture therapy is what we thought it was. But then you see, oh, only the outside of the rim. And it's, you know, it's actually shaped so that it's sort of the goo will fall to the outside, naturally, only the outside is electrified. There's only a current going through that. The center of it has no current. So it gives the baby a chance to get away from the pain and to do something.

So again, just the specificity of this test, of this procedure made me more of a fan of Mora where I absolutely just hated him before. So I like that. And it is a tribute to the powers of B when they were casting. They got a likable act. or James Sloy.

Picture if it had been casted, I love Mark, but it had been cast with Mark Alamo. It would have been a difference in altogether. Oh, completely. And they would have been saying the same words. Yeah. It's just, that's what casting is about, looking for that quality that you need to make something work.

Yeah. And when Moore shows his excitement over Odo's excitement and saying this is exactly how I felt when you did the same thing, you start to see how Mora really did look at Odo as his child in, you know, this is basically his baby, his kid. So, and I never thought of it that way before. And now this episode opened that up for me.

All right. We go back to Kira's room, the birthing chamber. O'Brien is giving Kira a leg massage, which calls back that other episode where he was giving her massages and they sort of fell for each other or noticed they had feelings. It just reminded me of that awkward episode. I was like, please don't. Don't go. He's not a massage her anymore.

And that's valid for what Shakir sees. Yeah. He sees this. It doesn't make him, he feels the same way you do. Yeah. I was like, ew. Ew. Yeah.

Yeah. He's massaging her. Shikar comes in, immediately gets kind of jealous. And it's basically a scene where they're both competing to care for her. Shikar invites her, says, hey, let's go to this zero-graft tumbling performance in the promenade. You want to go? So he's trying to impress her and take care of her. She says, no, I don't want to stand around.

Basically, they're competing for caretaking of Kira here. And then Kira says, it's time. They don't even hear because they're trying to outdo each other. I'll take over. I'll massage her. No, I'm massaging her. They're bickering. They don't even hear her say, it's time.

The baby's coming. She has to yell at them, and then they both try to lift her off the bed, and they both play tug of war with her and, you know, back and forth, which I will say that tug of war was funny, but I could tell that they had told the actor, Nana, you do the moving and will not pull you so we don't hurt you.

And I kind of saw that. It felt like a dance move rather than actually someone being pulled here and something. Yeah. Did you notice that a little bit? Yeah, I did as well. And I also noticed when they let, go she has this sort of and she doesn't want either one of them and I thought you know react to the

fact that you've just been pulled as opposed to your attitude yeah yeah something about that physical blocking or the way it didn't really work it didn't quite work again it was not as it wasn't comedy it was comedy adjacent yes yes so Robbie the only way that that self movement would have worked if Nana broke out into song and it was a musical number then yeah it was it It turned into a... That would have worked. That would have worked. And she could have danced on that bed.

She's an incredible dancer. Yes, she is. Yeah. We go back to the sick lab. The baby is holding a cylinder shape now on its very first try. It can hold a cylinder shape. And Mora's thrilled because he said, you know, Odo, it took you three tries for you to do it. Yeah.

And Odo admits, well, you know, I did that on purpose. I didn't want to give you the satisfaction. So you can see the tug of war that was happening with Mora. And Odo. Yes. So after Odo admits that he did it on purpose, more gives him a little guilt by saying, well,

you know, this changeling is going to give you the satisfaction of saying, thank you very much and I love you someday. Not like you. It was a little bit of that guilt. Or it may just leave you is what. Yes. Or you'll never hear from it again.

It'll never come to visit. Yeah. It was a classic, you know, parental guilt little moment. I thought that was great. But before the scene ends, the baby changeling does rise up and then form a bit of an Odo face

to mimic Odo and then goes back down. All right, here's the trivia. In this shot, where obviously baby Changeling attempts to mimic Odo's face, that was not budgeted. But this shot actually was something that Hesus came up with on set because of

the budget being exhausted. There were no funds left to pay for special effects and post-productive. So the plan was to just abandon the shot entirely. We're not even going to have the morphing into the face. And it was assistant director Lewis Race, who came up with an innovative idea. He put a stocking over his hand, covered it with goo, and held it up in front of the camera. To everyone's amazement, the shot looked fine. René Isheria was quoted as saying, that shot would have cost thousands of dollars in post-production, but those guys did it for nothing.

It was a great moment in guerrilla filmmaking. Wow. Good for Lou. Good for Lou. Lou for the win. Yeah, and really important. It's an incredible moment. It's the changeling saying, not necessarily I love you, but something close to that, that he's imitating Odo's look.

In the same way, oftentimes when I get close to my dogs, they'll give me a lick with their tongue. It's the same sort of reaction. It's that, you know, I have affection for you. Right. Yeah. Like, Papa? Yeah. No way.

All right. So now we go to the security office. Mora and Odo run in very excitedly. They're both excited about what's happening here. Mora wants to celebrate. But Odo picks up a pad. He's got to catch up on work. He can't celebrate with Mora. And this is where Mora tells Odo that he was wrong, that his way of doing things, you know, the tough way was not necessarily the best way and that Odo's way is better. And he admits he was wrong, which is a big deal. Huge. And he says, you know, Odo's forming a connection with the changeling, and that's important. They talk about how Odo doesn't have a connection with Mara. And Maura says, it's his own fault. I zapped you. I prodded you. Morris says, well, if I hadn't done that, maybe you wouldn't have ended up the way you are,

basically kind of referring to Odo's grumpiness. The turning point line, though, Robbie, is when after Morris says you feared me, Odo says, you didn't know what I was. You were experimenting on what looked like a lump of organic residue. that's what I'd still be if it weren't for you. So now it's, it's a total 180. It's almost like, it's starting to turn. It's like, listen, dad, you had to, you had to punish me because of the things that I did as a kid. It's like, oh my gosh, he's got wisdom now. It's so nice. And more is like, I know this kind of talking about these things is not comfortable for you. And that's because

it's my fault. I poked and prodig you and made you, you know, suspicious of people or cautious or distant. And this is where Odo says, you know, I don't, I don't blame it all on you. You know, maybe it's just my disposition. It's just the way I am. It's about both of them having insights into themselves. Yeah, it's great. It's really great. And the tag on this scene is wonderful.

Mora says, I'll leave you to your work. And Odo's is Dr. Mora. Two glasses of champagne, please. We're celebrating. And it was like, yes, he's actually going to have a little celebration drink. It's great. I had a moment where I went, wait a second. Odo doesn't imbibed liquid.

And then I remember, he's human. He's solid now. But I did question, why does Odo have a replicator machine that makes food and drink in his office? But, okay. So, Armin, so basically the line should have been. Dr. Mora, two glasses of champagne for me, the humanoid, and my Bjorin friend. Well, he did. Didn't Odo get drunk in one of the early episodes after he became a solid?

He was drinking way too much. And he's about to be rather drunken in the next scene. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, and it's a lovely thing. It's making concessions. They're both making concessions. And it's the lovely arc of the relationship for father and son.

Yeah. Well, we go back to the birthing room. Miles has finally gotten the gong playing right, it seems. Funny scene. This scene was funny. Miles wants to see the birth. Shakar says, absolutely not. You're not going to go over there and look at the baby arriving.

no way. And they start bickering. It's my baby. And Yipora's telling them to be quiet. Kako's getting frustrated. She's like, please be quiet. And they keep going. And Kira finally just kicks them out. She can't take it anymore. I would have thought the nurse should have kicked them out. I mean, she's in charge. Yipora? You poor should have kicked them out. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I understand why Kira did. You know, they're disturbing, they're disturbing the the wah, I think that's the correct word. And so they kick a wrap, yeah, kick them out. Kick them out.

We go out in the corridor. I love this moment in the corridor. It's a classic awkward dude scene where they both are just like, they go to their separate corners, they blame it on each other. Nice going. And the Chikar says, next time do me a favor, leave my girlfriend out. Next time you have a baby, leave my girlfriend out of it. Yeah, very funny.

We go to Quarks. Quark is He's doing the books, I guess. He's doing the books in his head, yeah. He's going to have to water down the drinks. Cork wouldn't do that, would he? Never. While he's trying to increase his profits, he gets to the bar,

and Odo is just killing his profits because Odo's behind the bar, just taking all he wants. He wants to keep celebrating. He's a little drunk. Breaking the law. Breaking the law. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

The constable is breaking the law here. We learned that more is asleep and Odo wants to keep celebrating. Quirk. And how dear is it that he wants to celebrate with Quark? It is so dear. I find that very dear. And there's a great journey in this scene for Quark of at first feeling very suspicious. Like, I don't get it.

What game are you playing here? You're trying to trick me. As he's often done. Yes. As he's often done. Yeah. And Odo just keeps going on and on about how happy is and all these good things. And Quirk just keeps thinking, this is a trick.

Odo's ecstatic. He feels truly happy and alive again. Talks about children. Did you ever think about having children? Yeah. And I sort of remember really thinking about Renee's kids when we were doing the scene. That this was, that was the background of where Renee was coming from. Because he's very proud.

Renee was very proud of his children. Very proud of his children. I have met them. Not only met them, I went and guest taught an acting class that his daughter was in. Oh. And what? This is a long time ago. A friend of mine had an acting class and he would sometimes bring in, you know, working professionals.

Yeah. People into his acting class to talk about working, answer questions and then to give notes on scenes. and so she was wonderful she's a very talented actress she's an incredible actress and which which daughter is this that's the actress tessa tessa okay and and her brother remi is also a phenomenal actor has often been on broadway um in new york shout out to remi he's now living in minneapolis oh is he was he working at the guthrie is that why he does often he does often work at the romey was on a show i directed and produced called six six six park avenue where he played a priest Did you cast him?

Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, he did a couple episodes. I think I directed him in one of the episodes. Yeah. But he did a couple as sort of a evil priest. Right. That was possessed or working for the dark side or something.

But Remy's super talented and super nice guy. And he knew the connection that you had with him too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we talked about his dad. Got it. Yeah, great kids. Just to finish this scene in Quarks, I mean, I love the journey and the turn that you

took in the scene as quark. I'm rather proud of the little smile that I have at the end of the of the scene that sort of says, oh my God, he really is happy. Yeah. Yeah. There was a there was a naturalism and an authenticity by the end of this scene that I felt like reflected in your real life relationship and also for the characters to finally, you know, we've kind of suggested it and said it as subtext. before, but this was your relationship and your friendship was not just subtext. It was palpable and tangible. Thank you. Thank you. It was great. Yeah, I think Renee did such a great job of playing drunk, because that is oftentimes not easy for people to play drunk, and he

didn't overdo it at all. I thought that he had the exact right measure of drunkness, believable. And again, this scene flowed. And this was a scene that my soul needed to be happy. The scene where Quark is not being belittled or yelled at by Odo. And that it's the first time they're actually on common ground. And they're having fun together for once. And it just, I was smiling, you know, from ear to ear after watching this scene. I loved it.

And to see Renee performing as a clown, which I knew him to be off camera. Yes. To see that on camera, to see that while I was performing, was such a joy to me to say, just as friends, to see the real Renee just there in front of me while the camera was rolling, was just ticklishly beautiful, delicious. It was delicious. Yes, yes.

And such a playful scene. Play is such a great word to use for this. Absolutely. Sick Lab. Oh, my gosh. We're back at Sick Lab. The baby is regressed. It's now no longer that orange color.

It's kind of that darker, dead-looking color. Odo shocked, what the heck is happening. And Morris says it's the morphogenic matrix. It's destabilizing. It's dying. And it's shocking to everybody. It's very shocking. Was it multicolored?

It looked like they had put, it almost looked like marbled or something. Yeah, like orange and blue. Yeah. Which I thought that little detail instead of just going with a total. solid color you could see it starting to the transition yeah marble and it was interesting back in the infirmary and or the sick lab or wherever we are we're somewhere with Bashir because he says the damage is worse than he thought yeah and mora has an idea but he tells Odo wait outside I'll do everything I can and for Odo to trust Morah to have

grown and changed his feelings huge this is huge and and to to see Mora being so empathetic and kind. It's not the stories we've heard from Odo about this evil, horrible torturer. He's a kind and empathetic person. Yeah, Sid's also super happy because Mora takes up some techno babble away from him, so he doesn't have to say it. So he's good. So while they're trying to save the life of the baby changeling,

we go to the birthing room and we're about to meet a baby. The baby is coming. Kira tells Kako, you know, would you do me a favor? And out in the corridor, Kako steps out and invites the boys back in if they'll be quiet. And they can't even do that. They bicker, oh, after you, no. No, no, no, after you. They bicker over entering the room.

That's, ooh. Inside, we go in the birthing room and the baby is born. Beautiful baby. They had a real baby in this scene. That's a young baby. Uh-huh. within a couple of weeks, right? Somebody.

What happens? Central casting says we need somebody who has a two-week-old infant. Come on in. How did they do that? Yeah. How did they do that? It wasn't Django. It wasn't pure people.

Oh. No, he would have been... Whoa. Interesting. That's very meta. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Yeah. That's interesting because a lot of times the concerns is just exposure to, you know, a crew and and the bugs, the germs that are around. But if Nana's working, then there's already just one degree separated from the baby anyway. Right. So that would be a smart baby to bring in, and it's a month old. So could have been. Here's another question, Robbie.

With child labor laws, obviously, if you're under age, under 18, you have a limited amount of hours that you have to work. So the younger you get, the hours get less and less, correct? Yes. So if it's a two-week-old baby, you've got five minutes with it, and then you're whatever. whatever it is. Yeah, it literally starts with minutes. Gosh, it's a total number of time you can have and only if, you know, I think it's five, ten minutes. It's very short. You can only have them in very briefly. So you got to kind of shoot that shot time you're filming. Yeah, you're not rehearsing. You

better prep that thing quick and get it done. Okay. Well, the baby's born. It's beautiful. We go to the promenade. Otos pacing. Bashir steps out, said, nothing worked. And it won't be very long. So we go back inside the sick lab. Mora Hans Odo, the baby's cylinder. It's dark now. Yeah. Dark green, black, blue. I don't know.

It's just dark color. Solid, not marbled anymore. Odo holds the baby. He pours it out of the cylinder into his hands and he pleads with a baby. Please don't die. Please don't die. And the baby morphs or melts into his hands. His hands absorb.

That's a better way to say it. Right. Yeah. It absorbs the goo, and then suddenly Odo sort of staggers, Bashir's worried, or, you know, what's wrong? And Odo says it can't be. Morris says what? And Odo walks out of the sick lab into the promenade where he morphs into a hawk. The clothes fall on the ground.

Yes, the clothes flow on the ground. That was a great detail that they kept in there. Because he is human. They should not have. They should not have. No, they should have. Well, he's human. Oh, you're right, Garrett.

I am so sorry. You are absolutely. Right. He's a humon. As a Humaun, he can't rep. Those are not morphed changeling clothing. It's actual real clothes. Normally, if you forgot, Armin.

You are right. You are right. Yes. Yeah. Shape shifts, the clothes fall down. So to help Armin, Odo should have said, I was Human, but no longer. And that's obvious from him taking off. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Did they have a real bird on your set that would fly? I certainly wasn't there that day. Yeah. I think it was. I wondered. It must have been a well-trained bird, if it was a bird, a real bird.

But I sure hope it was. I don't know. You know, I'm going to see Jonathan West next week. I'll ask him. Ask him if they had a real bird. I think it must have been. Nowadays, you could easily do a digital CG bird, and you wouldn't have to worry about it. But it would take time.

And hard for the operator. to know exactly where that bird's going to be. So that would be tricky. We go to the airlock next, and it's an awkward goodbye from Kira and Shakar. At the end, Shikar, you know, it's just awkward. It's like, you can tell that they're not connecting on some level. And at the end, Shikar says, you know, I have a few minutes left.

And then they hug. And I thought, are they just going to stand there hugging for minutes? Like, it was awkward before and now it's really awkward. it's just like and then it cuts from that it doesn't even show him walking away no no it just goes with him saying i got a few minutes left and they hug be be awkward anyway i i do believe the last thing he should have said is kira i'm going to devote my life to painting now i'm leaving and then that would have been really he did go off and become an artist the actor yeah yeah that's what i'll say well we cut to another part of the corridor more and odo uh are heading out um more

They've bonded. Yeah. Mora apologizes. So does Odo. They hug. They embrace, but it's not awkward. This one's not awkward. And as Mora leaves, Kira arrives.

And I have to, kudos to the director and to Renei, that moment where Renee puts his head on, on Mora's shoulder. Yes. So dear. Oh, my gosh. So telling. Yes. Evocative. Yeah.

That's wonderful. really was. Oh, that's great. Well, Kira runs into Odo as Mora leaves, and she shares that she feels off. She just feels off. She never wanted a baby, but now she doesn't want to let it go. And Odo says, I can relate to how you feel. And Kira says, you want to take a walk together, and they go off. And I loved his arm. It was Kira's arm. Kira put her arm. Oh, I thought it was Odo's arm over Kira. I think it was Kira. Oh, okay. Well, regardless, the affection was there. It was great. Yeah, very sweet. Well, there you go. There you go. There's that episode.

Yay. Let's talk about theme, lesson, moral for the episode, starting with Robbie. I wrote down, what makes a family and the feelings you have for your family are complicated and very personal. Okay. Armin, close to the same. I wrote down the painful and joyous experiences of being a parent. and the awful pain of losing a child. Loss is painful, but it can and does inspire understanding. That's great. Mine is, always remember that there are two sides to the coin. Because that's, and I'm just talking about the whole Odo more on the relationship,

because they really didn't see the other person's side until this episode, and then now they're great. So that's all. That's mine. All right. Our Patreon poll for winner for the theme slash lesson slash memorial for this episode, as submitted by Krishna Alistair is, love can be shown in many different ways. Great.

Okay. I like that. Yeah, like the ringing of a gong. Or the clanging, the annoying clang of a gong. Well, that is the end of our podcast. Thank you, everyone for tuning in. Just as a quick reminder. There is no new episode next week,

but we will return the following week with the episode for the uniform with tear fare. And we want to thank Armin for joining us for this one, of course. Thank you, Armin. Thanks, Armin. And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material for everyone else. We will see you a couple of weeks from now.

Bye now. Bye-bye. For our Patreon patrons, we're going to brabble a little bit longer.