The Delta Flyers - The Collaborator

Episode Date: October 22, 2024

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. This week’s episode, The Collaborator, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, & Terry Farrell.The Collaborator: Shortly before the election of Bajor's new Kai, Vedek Winn claims to have evidence of Vedek Bareil's collaboration with the Cardassians.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Tom Paynter, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, James H. Morrow, Roxane Ray, Andrew Duncan, David Buck, Tim Neumark, Randy Hawke, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Izzy Jaffer, Jan Hanford, Sam Mikelic, Francesca Garibaldi, Thomas Irvin, Jonathan Capps, & Sean T.Our Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Luz R., Michelle Z, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Lee Lisle, Sarah Thompson, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Sandra Stengel, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, Tae Phoenix, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Danie Crofoot, Steve Lugo, Rob Traverse, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Andrew Cano, Kevin Harlow, & Hailey Lugo, & Chris GarisAnd our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Patrick Carlin, Jake Barrett, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Jocelyn Pina, Mike Fillmon, Chad Awkerman, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Claire Deans, Maxine Soloway, Barbara Beck, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Cindy Ring, Alicia Kulp, Kelly Brown, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Maria Rosell, Heather Choe, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Dominique Weidle, Justin Weir, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Rachel Shapiro, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, E.G. Galano, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, Dean Chew, Linda Daireaux, Mars DeVore, Robert Allen Stifflerf, Jennifer Vaughn, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, Ryan Mahieu, Matt Smith, Andrew Cook-Feltz, Karen Galleski, Zackery Voss, Loretta Reyes, Timothy McMichens, Dawn Colleen Smith, Cassandra Girard, Andrea Wilson, Willow Whitcomb, Jadzia Mehari, Mo, Leslie Ford, & Douglas Lawrence-Plant, & Scott BowlingThank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hi, everybody. We just wanted to let you know that this episode includes discussions of some sensitive topics that could be triggering. So if you're struggling, you can reach out to the Crisis Lifeline at 988 in the U.S., 988 Lifeline.org, or Crisis Textline at texting 741, 741. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom, and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your hosts for today are Terry Farrell, our inspiring science officer. Garrett Wong, our brilliant Ensign and myself, your favorite helmsman, Robert Duncan McNeil.

For the complete version of this podcast, with all of our exciting and super cool bonus content, including ratings, winners and losers of the episode, missing scene, and Patreon subscriber submitted questions, check out patreon.com forward slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today. Hello, everybody. Well, hello. You too. know what was it like staying at Casa de Shimmerman at the same time. I know we were both there. It was a party house. I was in the shimmer swing suite. Oh, I love that.

Shimmer swing is what you just said, right? Okay. Yes. Oh my gosh. Is it not blissful to wake up in their house? It's a great home. It feels like it's been there a hundred years in a good way. Like it's got life. It's got, yeah. True home. It's a good. books and art on the wall just it's very comfy and their histories on the wall yeah yeah yeah yeah it's great yeah it was great storytellers breakfast we're all in our robes and having coffee in the kitchen it was like an adult slumber party that's the way i yeah i'm like look at it yeah first thing everyone how did you sleep we got food from a Thai restaurant the norman kitty love that was incredible this buffet was unbelievable.

Unbelievable. What was it called? Do you remember? You ordered it or you guys went there? What did you guys? We went and picked it up. Hope Tye. The vegan meat was crazy.

Really? Oh, yeah, that's right. We were so full. So full. Instead of using beef, they had like a beyond beef kind of, you know, vegan meat. Everything was so good. And it was, oh, so good. And we sat around a dinner table, like adults.

It was, you know, usually. I'm meeting with like standing with a bowl in my hand. I love it. That's what we did the next night when we had pizza with your friend, Joel. We did my version the next night with pizza, a box of dominoes and some, you know, wine from the grocery store. It's great. Dominoes and wine.

I love it. And Robby accidentally double-clicked on the gluten-free. Oh, yeah. Oh, I got regular crust, which is fine, but I just ate the whole top layer of my little small pizza. Oh, no. I forgot about that. I know. Well, it was on the Domino's app, and I never have used the Domino's app.

So I guess I thought I clicked gluten-free. But he thinks he double-clicked it by, you know, like turned it on and off. Yeah, I think so. I've done stuff like that. I know I hit it, but I must have hit it twice or something. So we're in the kitchen. We're so hungry by the time it gets there. Yes, she's eating the topping.

It was like we were in college or something. Just starving. It was ridiculous. So overall, it was a good couple. How long did you guys stay there? Two days, right? I was there two nights. Two nights. Okay. Yeah. And I was there four, five. Oh, even longer than Robbie. But you guys both got there the same day in the beginning is what happened from what I did. We did. Yeah, we did. Like an hour apart. Yeah. And we were there before the heat wave, which was great. Oh, so great. It was still hot during the day, but not blistering. Not what they're going through right now. No. Yeah, it's bad now. Oh, I'm so. happy we missed that. Yeah. Agreed.

It sounds like a blast. Let's just jump right into some birthdays. What do you say, guys? Excellent idea. Oh, genius. Our first birthday is Amy Tudor. Amy, October 21st. Happy birthday, Amy.

Happy birthday, Amy. Happy birthday, Amy. And Leslie Ford, also October 21st. Happy birthday, Leslie. Happy birthday, Leslie. Happy birthday. Leslie Ford. And we have Cindy Ring four days later on October 25th. Happy birthday, Cindy. Happy birthday, Cindy. Happy birthday, Cindy Ring.

Robbie, your limerick, please. Okay, this week I have two limericks because when I was trying to write the limerick, I literally have never spent so much time. I could not crack the code on this one. No. I ended up getting one, but then... You didn't even go to the master for help on that? Well, that's the thing. The master saw my struggle. And so Rebecca has also written... I'm going to read mine and hers versus far superior. Oh, my goodness.

Here's my limerick for The Collaborator. Bayjor is choosing Kayopaka's replacement. It's about time. But Kira's put in charge of solving a crime. Cork really hates payday, but he unsealed secret files in some. some way. And Wyn ends up the new Kai in the meantime. That's not bad.

Yeah. It's not bad. It's not bad. It's bumpy. It's bumpy. Okay, Rebecca wrote this one. Let's hear it. If I can get it in the right rhythm.

Burial seems destined to be the new Kai. But Wynne swoops in like an annoying fly. She enlists Kira in her scheme. The truth isn't so easily seen. And Wynne gets her way. Oh, no. Oh, my. I like it.

Yeah, it's good. I like both of yours. The master is still the master. So good job, RJ. Okay. Yeah. Let's hear your poem, Terfair. Let's hear it.

Collaborator. My head is quite frankly spinning. Is Barial's heart deeply winning? Trust waivers and is broken. Her forgiveness, a mere token. To his broken, idealized dream, Are Kara and Beryl a winning team? Oh.

Thanks, guys. I'll tell you what I like about. That's really good. I really like that it makes you think at the end. You're not making a statement. You're that question. Are they a winning team? So that's sold me.

My answer is no. Yeah, let's get into this episode. Let's talk about it when we get into the episode. Yeah, we'll get. Exactly. Here's my high coup. It's my high cue for the collaborator. And it goes something like this.

Time to choose the Kai. Vedic win digs up the past. Scapegoat, Bariol. Oh, that's good. Really good. That's really good. I'm sorry.

I almost laughed the way you delivered the first line. Time to choose the Kai. Time to wash the dishes. Yes, it was. Time to get pie in your eye. All right. Guest stars. Philip Anglum, of course.

Vedic Barile, we've talked about him before. He's appeared in four prior episodes of this. We have Bert Remsen as Cubas Oak. We have Camille Saviola. We've talked about Kaiopaka in the past. And two prior episodes for Camille. And that's it. Those are our guest stars right there.

Wow. Yeah. That was easy. Yeah, very quick. Story by Gary Holland. tell a play by Gary Holland, Iris Stephen Bear, and Robert Hewitt Wolf, and of course, directed

by none other than Mr. Cliff Ball. We love Mr. Ball. I love Cliff. I know. Love me some Cliff Ball. Honey Bear. He's a honey bear. Is that what you called him on set? You didn't say it. No, but I don't think so, but he was. But he's, I get it. I get why you described

him that way. That's how I think of him. Harry Wong's up, Mr. Honey Bear, am I in the next shot? he's like well like me depending on the season i could have done that yes there you go oh my goodness so this episode starts off in the promenade we see beryl kind of walking around a corner it felt like a dream from the beginning to me did it did you feel that way well especially because it's deserted there's no one in the city there yeah like the first shot i just thought oh are we like in the monastery or so oh but wait a minute i don't think i've ever seen

you know, all of that fabulous work that set design did. I was like, I don't know where we are. And then, yeah, when it looked deserted, it was like, oh, it has to be a dream. And it turns out at the end of this scene, when he comes out of this vision or whatever, that it's an orb vision, right? He's got the orb box and he shuts it. But I was trying to remember, like, is this always, it felt a little more stylized than some of the orb visions I've seen before.

Oh, yeah. So I thought was cool. Yeah. Yeah. Darker. darker more twilight zoneish in a way a lot of orange a lot of orange yeah very color saturated and it just felt different so i thought it was cool maybe that was cliff making that call or marvin or something who knows yeah it was cool he does wander around nobody's there and then he he wanders

bumps into a hanging body yeah which was very creepy yeah that was not good no it's never good Not much reaction, though, from when he bumped into it. But that makes sense, though, because he knows about what happened. Yeah. Yeah. He's like aware that he's having a vision or a dream. For sure. That makes sense.

Oh, yeah. The orb. Yeah. But we don't know at this moment. It's the orb yet. No. Yeah. Which is weird.

It's just weird. Well, Kira's playing spring ball by herself, bouncing a ball. Which is also weird. Which is also weird. Yeah. And ominous. So Kier was playing the spring ball. She runs upstairs, I think.

And then she's playing spring ball. she cuts the body and it drops. Did you notice there was no news? She cuts the rope. Don't say she cuts the rope. Yeah, she cuts the rope. Yeah, that would be weird. Why cut the hanging body?

She cuts the body down. Yes. So she cuts the rope and the body falls down. Body falls down. But did you notice there was no noose on it? When it fell down, it was just a body. And I was like, I thought it was a mistake. But I guess in a vision.

The dream sequence, the vision doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be. Yeah. You can have zero continuity. That. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's what it was. It was zero continuity. But good catch, though. Good catch, though, Robbie still. Yeah, it was kind of strange, but yeah, it makes sense in a dream. Well, he thinks that it's Prylar Beck. He says, that's Priler Beck. He says, that's Prylar Beck. And then Kira says, no, it's you. I was confused there because it didn't look like him. I didn't rewind it, but I wonder if he, it was, Karlar Beck, the first time we saw his state. And then you cut back and it's him? Yeah. Maybe. I don't know.

Should I go back and look right now? Let's go back and watch it again. We're going to wait. Go ahead and we'll sit here for a nice. I'll just talk about stuff and watch it again. So it ends and then we see Beryl shut the orb box. Yeah. And we realize it's a vision.

That's how that all works out. Well, here's my question to both of you. I thought opening up the orbs was a special ritual thing that happens once in a blue moon. But throughout this episode, we see Bariari. I'll refer to it over and over again as if it's an app on his phone. He's doing it all the time. I think it's a red herring. We're in Carra's quarters next, perhaps, staring out the window.

And then we see somebody's arms, but the way Cliff did it, you couldn't see who it was. Do you remember for a second? Yeah. And it sort of wraps around and then it reveals that it's the payoff later. Kira. Yeah. Yeah. It reveals that it's Kira.

There's a lot of handsiness in this scene. Yeah. Okay. So it's a close up. Well, you don't see who it is. right you see the arms you see them talking the minute she cuts away and then you realize because i thought they were both nude you know what i'm saying the way it was shot you couldn't really sure no you can't tell like a bob blackman yeah he totally made yeah he made a garment

that was literally exactly one sleeve was exposed yes that it almost when she walked away i was like good lord bob blackman what you just did you made me think she was completely nude but in fact you have a very form-fitting garment on her. That's the same color as her skin, or that was the lighting, whatever it might have been. But, boy. It was like, yeah, pale teeth or something. I was like, oh, my God.

Very interesting. Good for him. Yeah, cool. Well, they had some romance. He's headed back, and we learn in the scene in two days there's going to be the choosing. This is the election of the next Kai. Which I thought when they said that, I'm like,

oh, that's Kai Opaka. She's been gone for like a year. It's kind of crazy. right it's like not having a pope for a year yeah i can't imagine us not having a pope for a year for a year it's a long time it's a long time it's a long time yeah it's a cool idea that they that they vote for the next kai it just felt like it would have happened a long time ago but they're doing it in two days kira thinks barrow's going to win because he was kai opaka's favorite and he's worried vetic win's going to win. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, we're all a little worried about Vedic win.

Vedic Barrio. Good job, Philip Anglum, for being in shape and. Yeah, he looked great. He was shirtless. He did. Yeah, he did. Good job. Yeah, I liked him in this episode. No dad bod. No, he looked great. They don't want to lose each other. He doesn't want to lose her. Clearly, lovey, lovey, lovey, lots of love. How will we make time? We're going to figure it out. A lot of Yeah, a lot of that stuff. We go to the promenade next. Outside of the shrine, Vedic Wynne is talking to some children. I thought this whole scene is like the greatest subtext scene.

Like, people are saying things, but it's clear. I mean, Vedic Winn is great at this. Oh, my God. About saying something and you know she's not meaning what she's saying. Or, you know, it's so clear. Yeah, Louise was so, she's, well, she was so talented. a talented woman. Yeah.

Every time she called Kira Child. Yes. Oh my gosh. drove me crazy. Yeah. She's the best at serving barbs with a smile is what it is. Condescending. So condescending.

Yeah. Manipulative. Yeah. Yeah. She's telling the children at this top of the scene that they must worship the prophets to get their love. And then Beryl and Kira come over. And Beryl says, isn't love uncondendipal?

So already they're sort of like, you know, sparring about their religion, yeah. I really like how Beryl handles her. He's very much more in control of his emotions. Yeah. Then Kira. Well, yeah, Kira, but certainly better than wind. Oh, yes, yes. You right?

So he throws a little tiny wobbly and she gets so flustered and yeah, yeah. So you can see her boiling as she's covering her, covering. It's so fascinating, yeah. I just like your description of a tiny wobbly. That's amazing. I'm going to steal that. Yeah, she just tosses a tiny wobbly. That sounds British.

That sounds like something British people would say, oh, that was a bit of a tiny wobbly. Just a tiny wobbly. Just a tiny wobbly. They threw a tiny wobbly there. All right. Very funny. Well, clearly they're on the opposite sides of the religion, Beryl and Wynne, in terms of how they interpret things. Yeah.

But they do discuss the upcoming election, the choosing, and Wynne very condescendingly pretends to reassure Beryl that she's, you know, believes he'll win and she's all, you know, in support of it. Kira says in the scene at one point she goes, I think I have to tell Odo that he needs to up security. And she's like, oh, no, that's not necessary. I'll be fine. She was like, not for you. Last time you were here. There was an explosion and a terrorist attack. You try to kill my boyfriend.

Which we all know she was behind. Absolutely. And the subtext back and forth, that they're, oh, it's just amazing. I love the scene. It was really funny. So now we're in the promenade. We see a close up on this older Bajorn man who's just walking along. It's crowded.

And he's bumped into by another Bjorin who walks on in the beginning, but all of a sudden he just kind of has a realization, turns around and realizes, wait a minute, I know this person. Yeah, he rushes up to him and says, wait a minute, I know, you're, you're Kubis Oak. You're the traitor. You're the one that worked for the Kardashians. And he makes a big scene out of it. But thank goodness, Odo shows up to save Kubis's bum bum because without Odo, I think Cuba. It was like the crowds were gathering. The crowd definitely started to pay attention.

Yeah, that was going to be a crowd mob retaliation scene is what it was going to be. But Odo saves the day. Odo's very smart. Odo's basically, oh, it's Secretary Kubis. Last I heard you were living on Cardassia. And Kubis says, why, decided it was time to come home. Oda says, welcome back. You're under arrest.

That was awesome. That was awesome. And he gets him away from the mob. So Odo's a genius. We love Odo in this scene. did you notice kubis oaks accent it felt like he was like from the bronx or something he had this new york accent yeah i was like i mean he's a good actor but like well i don't know if you could put it was kind of a little bit jorren yeah yeah it was like better to have someone

who has no accent but that's kaiopaka as well camille saviola has a definite new york accent as well she does okay she does so maybe that justifies it yes that is that is That is an accent in a part of Bayjor, East Coast, that's very similar to New York. A hybrid from New York. Yes. Very funny. Well, outside of the assembly room is the next scene. And it's a vision, again, another orb, you know, vision quest.

Another orange kind of. Oversaturated such scene. Oversaturated. Yeah. Yeah. And Wynne is there. And she mentions, you know, blessings on the new. high, beryl, and then Opaka shows up and says he's got to be strong, and he doesn't know if he

can do it, he's not up to it. And she says, just follow me. And then we see Prylar Beck, the guy that was hanging in the, that he thought was hanging in the first scene. Brother Beck's got this basket with a lid on it. And he opens it up. There's a snake he sees inside. Opaka says, you know, take it. It'll make you're stronger. Beautiful snake. Clearly a real snake, right, Robbie? There's no. It was real. Yeah. It looked like a python. Yeah.

Yeah. No Viz effects at that point. That's a real snake. That was a real snake. Kind of making a hissing sound and stuff. Yeah. That was probably shot in a whole different day as an insert. Right.

At least for us, we would always do all the inserts on a different day. We'd never shoot inserts. Would a snake be paid or the owner of the snake be paid? Would the snake be paid? Would the owner of the snake be paid the same amount of as a day fee for a, for an actor coming in for one day? Is that how they would pay animals? I don't even know how.

You'll be shocked at my answer. Really? More. More. Whoa. Yes. Animal control has to come on too to be sure that the animal's safe.

Yes. Which isn't the snake's owner or the animal's owner. It's a whole other thing. It's another person or department that helps out. I had no clue. I did a show called Turner and Hooch with a lot of dogs.

And the dogs drove our budget. Like, oh, my Lord. I want to say, this is probably talking out of school, I want to say our budget for the dogs and dog team was about 30,000 a month, a week, a week or 30,000 an episode. I don't know how that divides out, a week and a half. Wow. That's why you don't see them often. So everybody listening, if you want to get rich in Hollywood, go buy some animals and start training them. It's a money train.

Yeah. Holy cow. Did the dogs get residuals too? No. No, they do not. Okay. So it's a buyout then. They get paid for the day.

Okay. The dogs don't get paid anything. Back to the snake. Yeah. Back to the snake. He reaches in. You think he's going to pull out this dangerous snake, but instead it's a noose. Well, I thought he was going to get bitten.

Yeah, because Opaka says if you get bit, it'll make you stronger. Correct. Yeah. Which is kind of like, oh, who is she now? Yeah. What the heck is going on with this? She put her. or bad opaca?

Yeah, or what the heck is he been up to that all of this bad stuff is what he's experiencing in the orb? That's what I was thinking. Yeah. He's guilty of something or his conscience is definitely working on him right now. Yeah. Yeah. I would stop doing these orb vision quests if I were him.

It's clearly detrimental to himself. Is it helping us? Yeah, it's terrifying. Just keep the box closed, Bariol. Thank you. Okay, so after he pulls out the hangman's news, we see it's another vision quest. He shuts the box. We come back to the holding cell in the next scene.

Odo mentions as he comes in that a mob was gathering outside of security. So that mob we saw that really hated this guy, Kubis, they're not given up. He had to clear the mob. Kubis is there. He defends his old job. He said he was only there to serve the Bajorans. And the Kardashians only recognized his group. So to help Jorans, he had to work with him, work with the Kardashians.

Anyway, Gol Dukot loved this guy, we find out in the scene. Odo mentions that, you know, you were Golducott's favorite. So clearly he was like a, he was a collaborator, clearly. Kira comes in. We learn that he wants to return. Kubis wants to return to Bejor, but she says absolutely not. This is where we learned what he did, not just generally collaborating, but he signed all the work orders that sent Bajorans to their death to these work camps and things.

And we learn about this thing called the Ilvian proclamation that exiled all of the collaborators. They can't come back to Bejor. She wished that they were sentenced, you know, had a harsher sentence. Yeah, too much worse. But I felt like he was ashamed in this scene. Like he was defending himself, but he also, you know, was ashamed of what he did. He felt bad, definitely.

Yeah. But why do you stay there so long? What the heck? What the heck? And how did you get that New York accent? I'm still wondering. Let me tell you guys what the original idea for this episode was that Gary Holland had. Gary Holland originally, for this episode, this involved an elderly male Bajoran who had been

living on Cardassia for many years, who wanted to return home to Bejor. And it's discovered during the episode that this Bajoran has some kind of dark. secret. And Kira is assigned to find out what that secret is. At first, it seems as if the secret may be that the man is the murderer of Kira's father. But it later transpires that the murderer is in fact the daughter of this man. Kubis's daughter was the murderer of Kira's father, and he's been covering up for her. So there is that cover-up thing that we, you know what I'm saying, the whole cover-up that's involved. But it was a much different story than what we got in this one. yeah completely yeah so yeah interesting it's always interesting to hear like what the first idea

was for these stories yeah how they pivoted yeah yeah it goes a whole different direction yeah yeah completely we go to the commander's office next i think this is the only scene that cisco's in that i can recall yes yes it is this scene made me laugh from the top as soon as when comes in and avery turned around oh the smile on his face his choices just blow me away. I'm like, oh my God. It's just, it's like, yeah. How would handle someone you don't respect and can't stand. And yeah, and clearly is lying to you. How do you handle a racist? That is how he's handling her. He just is brilliant in this scene. That's so fun. It's fun to watch. Well, she, she comes in. She wants to be friends, which is so funny. She's

right through it. Because she says, you know, we should show our unity and support for Bayjor by aligning with the Federation. And, you know, maybe we can go to the Vedic Assembly and celebrate, announce our new friendship. So clearly she's making a political move here. And Cisco sees right through it. Well, he agrees, though, right? He's, I'll go with you. But in a week after the choosing. After the choosing. Because he could see right through her manipulation on top of the fact that she goes on. Well, people think that we're at odds. Yes. Yes. Right? And he's like, really like gets more clear about it you mean enemies people think we're enemy yeah and they're right

but we'll just smile and pretend like we're friends right yeah and politically that's all good for next week because he does he does want everyone to be yeah on more even ground yeah he wants the assembly to to embrace starfleet and be friends and eventually maybe bajor will join the federation and all that but i mean he'll never trust her but that's okay. Yeah. Let me throw a quick production note in here.

So Gary Holland, the writer and who had the story as well for this episode, visited the set during production and viewed the scene with Avery Brooks and Louise Fletcher being filmed. Holland commented, I wanted that scene all along to have the two of them together acting toe to toe. Avery Brooks saw me and screamed my name across the soundstage. Gary Holland, this is yours. And at that moment, I thought, this is funny. I can't believe this is happening.

It was so satisfying to be a part of it all. Can you imagine that? You walk on set and the lead actor is yelling, your name, and then saying, this is yours, this script, this scene, everything. I love it. That's very funny. Well, when Wynn leaves this scene, she seems very disappointed. And I felt like I know that they had a lot to cover, so there wasn't a lot of room.

but this scene to me felt a little quick from top to bottom, honestly. Like, scene itself? Yeah, just it felt, it felt like the story they were trying to get through of, hey, let's be friends. Oh, I see through it. We're not friends.

I wish it had been dragged out in a couple of scenes. Like, it just felt so quick. The turns, all the turns felt really quick to me. But it was fun to watch. I just wish, I wish we had seen more of it and a little more slowly. and seen Cisco kind of making a move and her making a move. And I don't know.

That was my takeaway from that scene. I agree. I would like to have seen more of that. Here's another random production note. This was the final episode of Deep Space Nine to air during the run of Star Trek Next Generation. So the TNG finale, all good things, aired between this episode and the next, basically. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.

Had to make way for you guys. This is about the time that we were coming. Yeah, exactly. That's funny. Hey, Garrett, have you been traveling this summer? Oh my gosh, so much already. I don't always travel, but this summer's been insane. Trip after trip.

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Speeds may slow above 35 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See MintMobile for details. Well, next scene, we go to Kira's quarters, and she's reading a pad or something, and Odo calls and says Veda Quinn has granted Kubis sanctuary. Uh-oh. And Kira is not happy about this. steam comes right out of her ears like a cartoon like a cartoon with the sound

he's mad calls dachs right away dach shut this down lock this ship down it can't go anywhere and i'm like okay yeah you're just you were literally like sure oh whatever you want that's fine um don't be so aggressive and angry right now no i i you okay if she's got aggressive I've been angry. I'm not going to ask any questions. I know. It must be bad, right? All you say is understood. I'm not dealing with this.

I don't want to know anymore. I'm not going to touch the hot iron. Not going to touch it. Care comes into Odo's to find out what the heck is going on. With the steam coming out of her ears. With the steam still coming out of her ears, Odo explains, when came to visit Kubis in security, they talked, she asked to look at my computer, and then she said she's going to grant him sanctuary.

So Odo tries to find out what she was looking for. He's working on his computer. Kira asks, you know, find out what Wyn was searching for. Otto goes looking. He finds out that she was looking at Prylar Beck's file, who was another collaborator. And he does find that Beck and Kubus knew each other and helped Kardashians. Kira asks if Wynn looked up the Kendra Valley Massacre because these guys, you know, might be connected to that. And she did, Odo says, yes, she looked up the Kender Valley masker.

Beck is attached to this. He is the original scapegoat, right? So that was. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

He basically left a confession and then in a suicide note. Correct. Saying that he was the one. Yeah. But we do now learn. On the promenade. On the promenade, exactly. Very visible place to do that.

But we do learn that the massacre, it was basically Kyle Pott. his son was one of the 42, Joran freedom fighters that were ambushed and killed because Beck gave the Cardassians the location of their encampment. And that's what was in that suicide note that he made a full confession about giving that location away. Well, they're looking up all this stuff on our computer and then, on an Odo's computer. And then Wynn walks in, right, at the end of the scene and it's like, I'm smiling again. Kira, can I talk to you outside? Oh, she's amazing. told you were the one who stopped my ship from leaving and keir's like kira's like yes i did she almost nobody's back the same way yeah snap snap snap okay yeah she wants care to release the ship

kira says you can go you can take your ship and go but kubis has to stay for security reasons you got to do a molecular security scan could take days maybe weeks weeks i got to keep this guy kubis here yeah and so when reluctantly shares what she's learned is that Kubis agreed to reveal the name of who is truly responsible for the massacre. And she says at the end of the scene, it was Vedic Barai. Dun dun dun dun. Yeah. I was like, no.

No. I know. But then again, part of me was like, if this stops them from actually kissing anymore, I'm happy. I was actually glad. It just makes me uncomfortable. That's so bad, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

But it's true. Some people must love the kissing. No, but come on. Of all the relationships we've seen in Star Trek, this is the least, you know, exciting. Yeah, the least dynamic relationship ever, the least believable relationship as well. Yeah, there's not chemistry there. There isn't, mm-mm. Ew.

Oil and water. It's oil and water those two. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And quite frankly, we think about Kira's character. I would like her to be with somebody who's more adventurousome and more personality. Like, yeah, someone who, it's not that he's not a great guy or he doesn't love people. It's just someone we haven't met.

Okay. Someone we haven't met, exactly. That's good. We go to commercial, dun, done, done. Here we come back. Kira does not believe her, does not believe bro, did it? Wyn says that this is much too important to ignore

we can't ignore what Cuba says so she decides the prophets seem to want you to investigate this Kira you should be the one to do it Kira agrees but says keep this quiet until I have proof that he's innocent and Kai agrees

Oh not Kai not Kai but Vedic Vedic you can't promote it yet Oops Vedic Winn agrees yes that she'll keep it quiet but i love the last line in this where she says one last thing i know you're under terrible strain but if you're wise you'll never speak to me with disrespect again she like turned into a monster yeah that's the voice she used right there right yeah isn't she like an evil Disney queen yeah yes right she's she's disney's evil space queen yeah yeah exactly

But that's a credit to Louise Fletcher. She's such a great actress because from what we know from Armand, Louise is a very nice person in real life. Yeah, she was a very nice person. At some point, I'm in a scene with her briefly. Right. Like your experiences when you worked with her that she was a really, you know, personable person and you enjoy her, right?

Yeah. And like, you know, a lot of talented actors, they want to have fun working with other. actors and and they're joyful about work not entitled about work yeah she's great she plays that character so well yeah her last line when she gets really mad yeah was not a tiny wobbly or whatever you call it was a big wobbly is it so on the head yeah her evil is so right there it's like ah yeah yeah no yeah we go to cargo bay next kira is questioning kubis uh in there kubis says the day after the massacre barrio came to see back at his quarters kubas heard a lot of shouting for

hours they were arguing and shouting didn't know yeah through the bulkhead like what's that about what is that about well these sets were actually made of plywood yeah no i mean that i meant like what was the shouting about like what could they have possibly been shouting about well kubis thinks that he must have you know wanted to confess and that beryl wanted to cover it up and that's why back hung himself that's what kubis thinks but kira's like that could mean a thousand it's true and she's right yeah yeah when comes in and ultimately says you're going to have to prove yeah sure it could be a thousand things you're going to have to prove which is true though which you've got to find the truth of the thousand things is true yeah exactly okay so

Let me ask this. Did they let this guy go with Wynn then? Oh. Did Cubis leave with Wynn? He just sort of disappeared, didn't he? Yeah. Which really bothered me because I was like, shouldn't he just be back in his cell waiting for the,

whether we know or not. That bothers me that that's a missing scene. I just want to see it now before I forget. You're right. That's good. I hadn't thought of that either. Like, where did he go? Suddenly it's like a not an issue.

He's your number one. you know um witnesses or whatever yeah and he's like what like comparable to being well what would it be like when we had world war two in the Nazis like he's to be that kind of collapse yeah yeah it's bad he can't he shouldn't be allowed to no he's what is it called when you're a star witness no when you when you when you crimes of war oh crimes against Thank you. Thank you very much. He's a big fish and he just sort of disappears in our story for Is this the last time we see him in the episode? Maybe. We'll find out. But I don't remember seeing him again. That's why I asked the question because suddenly I was like, I remember thinking,

where is he? Where's Cubis? Well, we go to Cair's quarters next. Kira asked Beryl why he was at the station. And Beryl says he went to see Beck because Beck wanted some spiritual guidance. And, hey, for the people that are listening, he is on her, like, basically her laptop. He's not in her room with her. Oh, that's right. This seems like a face-to-face conversation, though, don't you think? Yeah, exactly. I think I would pop down to Bayjor and, yeah.

Yeah, it's not that hard. Just pop over to Bayjord. Yeah. It's fine. Isn't it? How long is that ride? Did we establish this? I don't think it must be that long because it's hours, though.

It's not like, it's not seconds. It can't be that far. because there's a scene later where she's basically on the station and then boom, she's on Bejore. Okay. And it wasn't like, meanwhile. Well, it's funny you say that this should have been face-to-face.

I forgot it was on the monitor, but I do remember noticing that Nana was playing it so connected. Like the way that she was having the conversation, a lot of times when you film these scenes and you're looking at a monitor with a green screen on it or something. It's hard to make it feel natural and real. And I thought Nana did a great job in this because probably Judy Brown was reading the lines off camera. Yeah. And she made it seem like that chemistry that Nana could create with, with, uh, rarely, but sometimes they pre-recorded,

but sometimes those are pre-recorded and then they can show it. That's right. Yeah. I mean, it was a laptop. But nonetheless, she's a talented actor. did a great job. I wasn't trying to diminish any of that, but just sometimes you get to actually see. Yeah. Yeah. Well, she's talking to him on the laptop, asked why he was at the station. That's where he mentions the spiritual guidance thing. And she wants to know more, but Beryl says, you know, I can't, he's like a priest. You know, somebody confesses to you. I can't betray their trust. But he reassures her. He says, I did not have anything to do with this. And Kira believes him because she loves. loves him and um because i'm going to prove your innocence didn't something feel a tiny hairy

for you for me there was this when he said he couldn't talk about it at all yeah i mean it just felt like maybe part of it was why do you bring this up if there isn't some element that we're going to get tricked yeah about but there was something about how he held back and i'm sure he had to to keep the intrigue going in the story i wonder if um you know those rules of like you know priests or you know oh yeah no 100 percent i mean i don't want to give away anything it just felt like i had like a hmm yeah yeah a little bit yeah i think they wanted us to i think they played it that way purposely yeah and she was also not not her Nana is doing, I think it was written purposefully that she asked questions in a very soft,

careful way instead of not grilling him, but not just being more straightforward. Like, look, we're dating, we love each other. Just tell me the truth. This is, yeah. Yeah. Just tell me the truth. It was still a little like, I'm afraid to ask you straight out. Yeah. Yeah. Which it shouldn't have been correct i mean if you're that yeah somebody else should be doing it if that is i i think she's too close to it somebody else should have interviewed him like odo yes yes another possible missing scene although she's been the one assigned to this right wednesday you've got to do yeah and it's supposed to be a secret yeah yeah true yeah so we're in the security office odo is there with kira Odo tells Kira that the Cardassians basically purged

all records of communications with Bayjor, but he can access the assembly archives, the Bajoran Central archives. So he's going to go ahead and get a hold of that. But while they're kind of talking about this, Odo does say, are you all right to Kira? Kira says, I'm fine. Odo goes, well, you don't seem fine.

Kira says it's nothing. If you say so, but they talk a little bit, But then all suddenly, Kira admits it. She says, I love him, Odo. And Odo says, really? Well, I, Keira says, what? I was just wondering when you were going to figure that out, you humanoids. When it comes to emotional attachments, you never see the obvious.

I'm into the Vedic Assembly files. The way that he played this makes everyone watching, say, you Odo are in love with Kirer. Yeah, 110%. Here's a little production note right here. writer Gary Holland was surprised at how Odo reacted to finding out that Kira loved Muriel, as that was not how he had written the scene. Like many fans, he took it as an indication that Odo was secretly in love with Kira

and this secret passion directly influenced Holland to write something else, which we won't talk about in spoil, but yes. So anyway, it's, again, it's Renee Oberginois's take on this scene, and I think it's amazing that he did that. Yeah, it was definitely a memorable moment. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. But he gets the records.

He does get into the assembly files. Right. He gets the records, but the week before the massacre, all of a sudden, the records have a seal. Yes. He can't get into the records leading up to the massacre. They're locked up. He says only a Vedic conceal records like that. So now we're wondering, is it Barrio or not?

Exactly. We saw the dream with him and the snake. We saw, you know, all the weirdness happening. And everything is now starting to point towards Barrio. Or another vetic, whoever it may, but it seems like it's bryl. Maybe it's win. Yeah. We don't know.

Yeah. But again, it's just a shocking scene to hear that Odo, you know. The big takeaways. He loves her. He loves Kira. Absolutely. Sweet. Very sweet.

Yeah. We go to Quarks next. And Cork is paying a dobble girl. Payday. It's payday. He hates payday. He's trying to short her. Short her.

Oh, my gosh. I know. And she's like, points to her more latinum, please. Why didn't they give her a line? Like, I hate those scenes. Did she not have anything? No. She had nothing.

Oh. I hate those miming scenes because they don't want to pay an actor for a line. Yeah. You know, to save them 600 bucks or whatever. Does that really break the budget? No, we wouldn't have. And she could have easily said, like, we go through this every payday quark. You're so reluctant to give it the money.

They just pay me, you know, yes. Yeah, but they wouldn't give it to her. Yeah, she didn't have a line. She just did this, you know, tapping her hand. At my hand. I hate those miming scenes. Anyway, Armin was very funny, by the way. Yes, he always is, isn't he?

So funny. I may be starting to go Team Gork, by the way. I'm just going to go on record. And now that you've had the royal treatment. Yeah, now that I've said, Cassidy, shimmer swink. Shimmer swink. Yes.

Yeah. Quark's funny to me. I enjoy watching Quirk. Well, his line is funny. It's on the back of the guest house. It says shimmer swing. Oh, does it?

I didn't know that. Yes. That's why I'm holding on to that. Oh, I didn't come up with it. We thought you came up with that. I know. I'd like to take credit, but I did not.

Okay. All right. I love Quark's line. I'm developing a persecution complex. I mean, there's some really funny lines in here. Quark's very funny. Yeah.

I like, yeah, turns around at one point. He goes, whatever she told you, I didn't do it. Yeah. It's like immediately defensive. Very funny. Yeah.

So Quark, Quirk thinks he's in trouble when Odon Kira arrived, but they just want him to bypass the security seal. They know that he's a guy that can do this. He's the master of getting through security seals. Yeah. And he's like, I don't know. You're going to make me take the fall. He doesn't trust them at all.

He wants written authorization countersigned by the command. It's what he says. And Odo goes, just do it, quark. He's just like, just angry. And do you love how when Quark goes over to his little isolar chips or whatever they're called? The isolinear chips. When Odo tries to look, he's like incents, like, no, no, no. Let the master do his work.

Exactly. He's like a cook in the kitchen. Like, you get out of the kitchen. I'm going to cook my little seal breaking thing right over here. Just go away. Yeah. He shoes them away. He's like, this could take a while, sends Odo off.

So he's working on that. The next scene is in the promenade. So Odo and Kira walk out into the promenade. And this is where Odo recalls when Beck took his life. And his observation is he says, you know, in extreme situations, he's learned that humanoids can do terrible things when in a crisis. So it's a sobering moment there. It was a great scene, I thought, with the way that Renee and Nanah played this scene.

I thought it was great. Yeah, and I don't think I was aware that it was on the promenade until we got to this point. You know, even in the orb experience that Bedek-Barrell had, it was so dreamlike. It was hard to tell exactly what was real and where they were. Yeah, if it was literal or kind of just. Yeah. Yeah. And this made it really hit home to me because I work there all the time. So it was like I could visualize where he was talking about. They show a picture. And it just made it more real and sad. Yeah. Deeply sad. Yeah. It wasn't a long scene, but it was very moving for sure. Yeah. And also you had mentioned Robbie that Odo says that humans in extreme situations are capable of doing horrible things. But the Writing is even more detailed.

It says even the best of you are capable of doing horrible, terrible things, right? So that's even more poignant, you know, people that are considered the mother truth is fundamentally really good. Yeah, amazing. Even the Pope, you know, is possibly capable of doing terrible things in extreme situations. Yeah. Yeah, great Star Trek wisdom moment in that scene. Yeah, appreciate that. Quark calls them over at the end of this scene, though.

cork says uh and he looked like he was in like a to go window or something he's going to lean it kind of is like a drive through i have your order here's your order guys okay it kind of is it's the window from the bar out to the promenade oh okay yeah it felt like a like a yeah to drive through a drive through or something but he says i got into the files good news is i got in bad news is You know, all of them have been erased. There's nothing there. Yeah, it's an empty file. Yeah, empty file.

And we go to ops next. Miles O'Brien's there. He says he can't retrieve the empty files in time to do her in a good, basically. These erased files. But he might be able to find out who erased it. So he does some real cool techno stuff, finds fragments of the retinal scanner or something. Yeah. builds out the whole eye and the whole eye turns into

Muriel! It's Barial. That whole eye turns into Barial's shirtless body. Yes. No. I know. Yeah. But he does figure it out in a cool, techy way.

As Miles O'Brien always does. We go outside the assembly room down on Bejor next into another vision here. Way too many. Yeah, this one is like, this is... Two desserts work. Four desserts is way too many. Now you skip dinner. And this vision is jumping all around.

It's got like Beck says he trusted him and he was betrayed. Then he's naked and he's kissing win. Well, he thinks he's kissing Kira, right? Or he's kissing Kira. And then when he pulls away, it's when. It's when. And she looks really pretty in that shot, actually. She does.

Yeah, it was great with her hair down without the whole fancy headpiece on. Oh, no, I'm wrong. well we think he's kissing care or whatever but but then kira stabs him yeah she walks in and you think she's walking in really sexy like oh they're going to kiss now off the wind kiss but nope stabs him except this gift from the prophets she says as she stabs him yeah i don't want any gifts from the prophets i don't want any gifts from kara no not anymore not after this scene I'm scared. Beryl gets stabbed by Kira.

That's the gift from the prophets. Baca catches him and says, may the prophets comfort you. And then does he die in this vision? Or maybe he wakes up just as he's dying, I guess, at the end of it. Opaqa just says, may the prophets comfort you, my child. May they comfort us all. And then it shows Beryl opening the orb box. That's right.

That was enough for him to go, we're done. I'm done. I just got stabbed. I just got a gift from the profits. I'm done. Yeah. I think he's just picking out a scab here. It's too much.

It's too much or vision. An emotional scab. Stop. Stop opening the box. I mean, really, he might need to get some guidance on why he keeps opening this box. Yes, he does. Well, he closes the orb box, hopefully for the last time. I don't think there's any more visions that I can recall.

Okay. I will see. Kira walks in, though. She's heartbroken in this scene. Yeah. Ruth, she's very sad. This is her boyfriend. She loves him, yeah.

Ryle says that more Bajorans would have died if the Kardashians didn't get the location of this resistance base. And he doesn't really give up much detail, but he just, he kind of says, look, this had to happen this way. And Kira's very sad. She's very sad about it. Yeah. disappointed crestfallen yeah yeah this is huge because he's not just her boyfriend he's a spiritual leader that she fell in love with and she's a deeply spiritual character and she's gone through a lot of trauma she has PTSD so for

her to give her heart and to trust this guy is huge it's everything so that that's been stripped away from her the helplessness that follows. Would you say, Terry, that this is the first time that Kira has allowed herself to fall in love with someone? I would think so. I would guess so. Yeah. It sure looks that way. Yeah. And he seemed like a great choice until this happened. Yeah. Yeah. There wasn't a lot of chemistry, but he seemed like a great choice. I know. Without the chemistry. On paper. On paper. It's great. It's wonderful. And, paper. Yeah, on paper, it's great. But for some reason, yeah. Yeah. Well, her last line where she says there had to have been another way. I believed in you. I defended you. And Wynne was right all along. And now she's

going to destroy you. And his last line, no, I've destroyed myself. So it feels like a confession that he did all. Yes. Right. It does. Yeah. But that's good writing because it's leading to you down one path, but it's not going to be another turn. Yes. We go to ops. Kira comes into Ops calls Wynne to tell her the news. But when she gets Wynne on the screen, Wynne says, you know, Beryl withdrew from the choosing. And Wyn's very happy, thanks her. And she hangs up and then Kier's like, you know, I think I missed something.

And goes over to Miles, ask him to go back into the file. She's like, wait a minute, I want to check something. So we know that there's more to this story. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We go back down to Bejor. The choosing has happened.

Wyn has won. She's the new Kai. all these vetics and, you know, important assembly people are coming out. And she's wearing the Kai wardrobe as well, the hat and everything. Yeah. Full on. She's got the Sydney's opera house on her head. Well, no, that's gone.

Remember? No, that's the Sydney Opera House is Vedic. Is the Vedic. It was her. Oh. She's got that gold, you know, embroidered little hats cap. Yeah. Okay, thank you.

She's got the Pope. I guess I'm kind of partial to Siddiq. The Sydney Opera House? Me too. I love that Sydney Opera House. Well, when is the new Kai? Kira says, you know, tell Cisco that we're going to have to postpone our celebration appearance in front of the assembly. So she doesn't need this anymore.

She's too good now for him. Yeah. You don't need him no more. No. And then she leaves. And then Beryl comes out. Kira reveals to Beryl that she knows that he couldn't have been a part of it because he forgot to erase his transit fund. And she says, you were away.

You couldn't have been here for any of this. Right. It had to have been Opaka. Mm-hmm. And Barial admits, yes, she was willing to sacrifice even her own son to save many, many more lives. So that's the final truth. Kyle Paca did it. She sacrificed her son.

Oh. Holy cow. Yeah. So sad. I don't think I could sacrifice my max. No, I don't think any, I mean, how can anyone actually do that? No. Can't imagine. Can't imagine. And it's an ominous sort of ending because they kind of say, I wonder where she's going to lead us.

Yeah. I just want to add one quick little production about, yeah, trivia thing. Yeah, trivia thing. Camille, Camille Saviola, who played Opaka, commented. I read the script and went, I had a son. It was shocking. And it excited me. I thought it was very progressive. and showed that this is another world, after all. We tend to apply earthly mores, especially American sensibilities, to outer space. And I thought, not only was she a poke to Bejor, but the Kai was a working mother. On the revelation about Opaka, Saviola commented,

I didn't understand why what I did had to be kept secret when it was a heroic deed. It was almost like Oscar Schindler. I have sacrificed 40, including my own son, to save 1,200. So that's Camille's quote. Oh, it's funny. Sacrifice 40 to save 1,200. In Resident Alien, the premise of the show in this mining town is there's a, there was a mine accident and 59 went in to save one.

And the 59 died. So that's why the bar is called the 59. There were 59 that were in the town that went to save one person. So it's kind of the opposite. Like everybody was willing to sacrifice for one. Oh, my goodness. Did I also ever mention that I. I worked with Camille Saviola when I was about 18 years old.

On what? I did a workshop. So Broadway musicals often get developed, and then they get some money to do a workshop where they try it out and they try to raise money. And then if they get more money, they go to Broadway. So this was the workshop of a show called Starmites. And I was kind of in the ensemble, but I was the director's name was Tony Tanner. and I'd worked with him.

I'd just done a show with him. So he brought me in as the, believe it or not, I was the male dance captain on this workshop. Oh, God, how cute. Isn't it adorable? I was like 18. And we did this workshop at the Minskopf rehearsal studios, which right in Times Square.

And Camille was like larger than life to me. Yes, she is. She's larger than life. She had just come off a musical called, nine with Raul Giulia on Broadway. Okay. So she was a big deal to me. I was 18.

Like, oh my God, this woman from this big Broadway hit nine. So I knew Camille when I was like 18 or something. That's sweet. Did you have the hair that you had in Masters? Yeah, it was probably that kind of. The bushy 80s hair. 80s. It was like David Hasselhoff back in the 80s.

It was a mullet. It was basically a mullet. It was probably had a really good looking mullet. So it's hard when you have really curly hair. Exactly. Yeah. That's where I wear hats. That was an interesting episode.

This wasn't one of my favorite episodes. What's the lesson that we can learn to live a better life from this episode? What are we going to go with our overall? Wow, that's a lot of pressure. I know. Okay, I got one. I don't know if anybody's going to live a better life by it. But I got a theme.

Yeah, that kind of set the bar super high. I'm out. I think I will live a better life. Here's my theme or my lesson. Yeah. That being a hero is not going to always get you recognition and love. And that being a hero is complicated because Bariahle kind of had Opaka's back here. He, you know, he ultimately had to sacrifice being Kai.

So doing the heroic thing or doing good things is not always going to get you love. It's not always going to get you, you know, appreciation. But it's still worth doing. That's the lesson. Right. Do the right thing, even if you don't get appreciation and love for it. So sacrifice sometimes is necessary. Yeah, without a payoff.

Don't expect a happy ending. I like that. Yes. I like that. Do for the doing. Do for the doing. Not for the outcome. Yeah.

Everybody's life, Garrett, is going to be better. They're going to be heroes. without looking for attention for it now. Yeah. And Buddhism, you do for the doing, you're not doing for the outcome. Yeah. It's the joy of washing the dish. It's the joy of smiling at a stranger.

Well, I wrote, trust those you love, exhaust all possibilities. Okay. For me, for this episode, I could only think about that old, the needs, that Vulcan, what Spock said, the needs of the many outweigh. Yeah, the many outweigh the needs of the few. few meaning yeah yes opaca made that decision her son and 41 other bejornes had to die to save the 1200 right yeah that's so that's kind of a thing and i was hyper focused on their relationship even with my um even with your poetry yeah i thought that was interesting that that's the part that's that connected for you yeah which is great it felt like the bigger part of the story but

it really wasn't i mean it was sort of what they used to make the meal out of it but the real important story was what Kai Opaka went through. The winning submission on our Patreon poll for the theme or moral of this episode is submitted by Paul Jay. Sometimes you have to do the wrong thing for the right reasons. Wow. And then it kind of goes back to what Odo said. Yeah.

Even the best people. Even the best of you, yeah, are capable of doing terrible things. Yeah. Yeah, and great writing by Gary Holland by bringing that in those in threes, how important that is. Great job. All right. Well, thank you, everyone, for tuning in to our recap and discussion of the collaborator. Join us next time.

And when I say us, I mean Terry as well, for the next episode, which is Tribunal. And thank you, Terry, for joining us this time, as always. We'll see you next time with Terry. with Tribunal for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned. Thank you.