The Delta Flyers - The Killing Game Part II
Episode Date: January 3, 2022The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch & recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang & Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting... at the very beginning. This week’s episode is The Killing Game, Part II. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.The Killing Game, Part II:With half the Voyager crew trapped in a deadly simulation staged by the Hirogen, Captain Janeway must find a way to retake the ship.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise & Rebecca McNeillAnd a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, Kate Mulgrew, & Brannon BragaAdditionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co-Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Mike Devlin, Samantha Hunter, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Ashley Stokey,Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Dominique Weidle, Lisa Robinson, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, AJ Freeburg, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Barbara S., Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, John Mann, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, Melissa Lau, Tae Phoenix, Nicole Anne Toma, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Paul Young, Elly Post, & Brandon MayAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, James Amey, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Ann Harding, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Scott Lakes, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Jenna Appleton, Jason Potvin, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Amy Tudor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Louise Storer, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Megan Moore, Melissa A. Nathan, Captain Jak Greymoon, David Wei Liu, David J Manske, Roxane Ray, Bronwen Duffield, Red Wizard, Jessica B, & E.G. GalanoThank you for your support!WTGb3afxK2rtX6BXYHu2Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy
Transcript
Discussion (0)
Hey, everyone, welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager, your two hosts along this journey, or myself, Garrett Wong, and of course, my co-host, Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil.
Yes, sir.
Hi, I AMR'd your last name.
Yes, he did.
Yes.
Wow, wow.
All right.
Nice.
I never knew about AASMR.
ASMR until you.
Until our podcast.
You use that.
Yeah.
See all these things we learn on the Delta Flyers podcast.
Yes.
We're learning and we're teaching others that don't know about it.
So this is a very informative and crucial podcast.
It's basically school for humanity.
It's like you're doing school right now.
And you will get a degree.
Yeah.
You will get a certificate of intelligence when we were done.
You imagine if we actually have a degree.
that we sent to all the fans, that'd be kind of cool.
The Delta Flyers Academy.
Your Delta Flyers Academy, of course, yes.
You are now an official expert when it comes to Star Trek Voyager episodes.
As much as we can make you at least.
Right.
We'll try our best.
Hey, let me ask you, let me ask you right now.
What the heck is going on in BC?
Is it better now?
The craziness?
you mean with the floods and the weather and all that stuff yeah it is better it is better yeah it's
getting better um yeah the roads were washed out it was really bad for a while yeah farms were
flooded a lot of um you know livestock and things were died because of it yeah but it's it's getting
better it's getting better and it was affecting delta flyer's merch too yes it was to do to send one t-shirt
from Vancouver to another part of Canada was an exorbitant amount of money that they were asking
for. And it was weeks for, you know, no guarantees. Yeah. Rebecca had ordered some Christmas
presents for my co-workers on the show on Resident Alien. And we ordered them over like a month ago
and still haven't gotten them because the shipping is all messed up here. Getting trucks across, you know,
the mountains and into BCC so yeah yeah it's been a bit of a mess i mean especially in this day and age
of amazon prime where you can get it the same day and then for you to have to wait one month or you're
still waiting are you still waiting yeah it's been even coming it's been still waiting oh it's
yeah we'll see hopefully fingers crossed okay yeah how are you doing i'm okay you know i'm in calgary
now so i you know got up here and uh lending my my time and support for megan who's been
dealing with two deaths in the family her grandfather and a cousin right within a week of each other
and just it's been rough so uh yeah so i'm here to support her and be there for her so that's been my
my dealio i left i left you know the u.s a little earlier than i wanted to but of course when it comes
to tragedy and uh loss yeah you can't put timing on that it just happens right so yeah yeah
um it's good it's good to have people around you know yeah it's good not to be alone when
for everyone when we're down and we're grieving and we're processing really important things like
that. So that's agree. Agreed. And this week's episode is Killing Game Part 2.
Mm-hmm. We've already seen Part 1 and I'm very excited to watch the conclusion of this
two-parter, which I love. And you're, I mean,
You're okay.
I'm excited to see Part 2.
I'm very excited to see Part 2.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yes.
All right.
Let's go watch it.
Let's go watch this.
Okay.
See you soon.
See it.
Hey, everyone.
We are back from watching Killing Game Part 2.
Oh my gosh.
Wow.
Lots of action.
We survived.
We survived.
I can't believe it.
Okay.
Finally, the neural implants have been turned off.
and we're back to our normal selves.
The interfaces, the neural interfaces, yes.
Okay, here we go.
Let's start with our poetry synopsis of part two.
Let's do.
Here's my haiku.
Okay.
I'm going to give you my haiku,
but I'm going to give you an alternate ending line after I'm done.
Okay, here we go.
Fighting rages on.
Bobby almost shoots Harry
A truce is brokered
Okay, so that's that's the original.
Yeah, it's good.
Yeah, it's good.
Here's the alternate ending, okay?
Fighting Rages on.
Bobby almost shoots Harry.
Accept this trophy.
I like that one.
Jamest final line, right?
Yeah, I like that.
All right.
So in our compilation book that we published,
I want the alternate to be in there too.
Alternate ending in parentheses at the end.
Okay.
Okay, thank you.
How about that limerick?
Okay, here we go with a limerick for the killing game part two.
The Herogen want to keep fighting a future that Carr tries rewriting.
The neural implants finally break.
The whole crew is wide awake.
Janeway says a truce with some holotech is what she's.
tech is what she's prescribing.
Nice.
I like how you extended that, that fighting in there.
I did.
Was that on purpose?
I was trying to land, land the rhyme setup.
That was, if you, you got to hit that first, the Herogen, just want to keep fighting.
Yeah.
Because the limerick's got to be in that rhyme set up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Hook.
So I had to hit it hard.
Yeah.
fighting okay it was hard to find i was i was thinking about fight and i you know we both used fight by
the way yes we did we did yes so clearly that was a theme um but i was trying to think of something
with fight and then i got to fighting and it was like oh now i have to rhyme fighting and then i found
rewriting and i'm like perfect wait rewrite yeah car wants to rewrite their future okay
writing.
And I'm like, now I'm stuck.
How do I get Janeway in on that?
So do RJ come up with prescribing?
Was that RJ's?
I'm not telling anybody.
Yes, you will tell me now, Robbie.
All right.
Anyway, I love our poetry.
Yeah.
I love our poetry.
So fun.
So fun.
Really fun.
Let's just, okay, same writers, obviously.
Nooski and Braga, but different director, because that's just how.
See, I always felt that was, you know, I know why it's that way.
but I always felt that was weird
whenever we do two-parties
and there's another director.
I don't remember Victor Loebel.
I feel bad.
I don't really remember him very well either.
I feel like he was a visual effects guy maybe.
I haven't even looked up his credits.
Well, he also, I did.
He worked on, he directed V, the 80s series.
Oh, the original V.
Oh, interesting, because I directed on the second round of V.
in the late 2000.
You didn't tell me you worked on V, the new V.
Victor Lobel and I, I guess.
Yeah, I did.
Well, what episode?
Which episode did you do?
I did the season finale's, first season finale.
Oh, wow.
I forget what it was called.
So you worked with Logan, the young kid in there?
Yeah, all of them.
Yeah.
I think Laura Vandervort is also in that as well.
So I had no clue you did that.
I did.
And so V is a common theme, a common thread for Victor Lobel and myself.
Yes.
Victor Lobel directed a bunch of deep space nines, I think.
Okay.
He did like four.
He did on DS9, he did for the uniform, Who Morns for Morn in the Pale Moonlight and
prodigal daughter.
So he directed four DS9s.
So that must be how he came to us.
The Killing Game part two, I think was his first episode,
with us. Yes, I don't recall him working on anything before this. No. So, yes, neither you or I have
a lot of recollection of working on the future mobile. No, I don't really remember. But it's,
the thing I will say is, it's surprising to me that they would have handed him such an important
episode when he had never directed any of our shows before. So that surprises me. This feels like
the kind of thing you'd hand David Livingston or Rick Colby or someone who had directed a bunch of our
episodes at this point. Although I thought Victor did a great job.
He did. And I will say, you know, my feelings, if you've listened to part one of our
podcast recap, I, the one big criticism I had is that we weren't playing our regular characters.
We were playing these sort of play within a play. We were playing characters that,
yeah, I was really happy to see those neural implants come off. And we got.
got to play ourselves again.
It was even just having Janeway and Seven
from the start of this episode
off the neural, whatever they're called.
Interface, the off the neural interface thing
was a treat.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So now we're in the corridor to begin.
We have Janeway and seven,
and they have to fight past German soldiers
who have now leaked into the deck five, deck six,
deck seven area.
suppose. So they're on Voyager now. So they're in the way. And clearly it's dangerous because all the
safety protocols are still off. So any type of bullet or any weapon fired by a holographic weapon
is still going to do as much damage as a real weapon. By the way, I did like that there was a
recap before this episode. You know, they went back and they kind of showed highlights from the
previous episode to get us into this episode. And I was like, that's awesome. Like,
We're used to that now in television because so many shows are serialized, but we didn't do
recaps on our show on Voyager.
So it was nice when I sat down to watch this, that it sort of gave you the highlights
from last week so that you're right up to speed as the story starts.
Yeah.
So like the runaway, running away from the big bulkhead that exploded and exposed the
holodeck and some of the corridors, like that was cool to kind of bring us right back to
where we left off.
Yeah, to have a little.
That was very cool.
Yeah, a little reminder of what's been going on beforehand.
Yep.
So we're in Astromatrix.
Janeway and Seven are there, and they're trying to strategize, basically.
Yeah.
They have to take out another German soldier that's there with one quick, swift little move.
Janeway knocks that guy out, and now the strategy begins.
How do we release all the rest of the Voyager crew members from this interface that is controlling their actions?
Yeah, they have to get these neural interfaces shut down because.
because otherwise they're just locked in this game that they're not even aware of.
And they realize in astrometrics that the crew, the neural interfaces are all being controlled in sick bay.
So they've got to get into sick bay.
But sick bay is totally, you know, very heavily guarded.
And they're going to have to have some fighters.
They can't do it with just the two of them.
So they're going to have to go get some of the French resistance or the Americans or some of the people in the
Polydeck to come help them fight.
They need help.
They need help.
And then we go to the bridge and Harry is on the bridge.
Harry and his hair in his face.
There is.
And his hair in his face, which I love.
Yeah.
Did you have that big bump at this point?
The big giant red bruise.
I didn't notice it until halfway through.
And then it was like, well, when did he must have had that the whole time.
I've had a bruise this entire time.
Yes.
It's a big red giant.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I got hit.
really hard in the last episode so that probably exacerbated the bruise i think that's where that came i wonder
if it was consistent because i didn't really notice it as much and then late in the episode i was like
whoa that looks good that's a big bruise that's a big bruise but i didn't i wasn't quite sure when
it happened but you know there's a lot happening in this there is there is there is there is
taranj arrives up there because cars on the bridge yeah alpha horogen car is there right alpha
Tehran shows up.
Yep.
And Alvar Rojan car, by the way, suggests that they allow, well, Harry suggests that they allow him to go down to engineering and initiate this power surge.
And Carr says, no, he wants to save this technology.
And Harry's like, we're going to have to, you know, this may blow up the whole ship if this thing overloads.
And then Taranj arrives and he wants to kill the prey and just move on.
But Carr says, no, we've got to preserve this.
technology. We can't jeopardize this ship exploding. So he tells Taranj to take all the other
hunters from the Klingon simulation and subdue everybody. So they take the Herojan out of the
Klingons. So the Klingons are sort of left by themselves waiting for a war, which we find out later.
There's, Neelix getting drunk with some Klingons, which is great.
Yeah. Let's not jump the gun, though. Let's keep knowing.
Okay.
Then we go to the bar after that.
And there's Captain Miller and young, handsome Bobby Davis.
Well, we don't know his name is Davis yet.
We just know Bobby at this moment.
It's later.
Yes, Lieutenant Bobby.
We didn't even know his rank.
It's just Bobby.
And at this point.
Yeah.
And Brigitte is there.
And who is Tuva?
What is his character's name in this holiday?
I never heard it and I can't find it.
Yeah.
I know.
I have to figure that.
We should look at.
the script and figure that one out.
We should.
Yeah.
So there's a whole conversation right here about it's a German secret
compound because you guys are still clueless.
You still think you're the characters in the holodeck, right?
And it's a German secret compound.
And there's a lot of talk about, you know, what this could be.
And Chakotay, as Miller has already radioed into headquarters.
And military intelligence has said, hey, this must be an advanced munitions
laboratory to build some kind of super weapon.
So then Chacote is, you know, he's concerned, Miller's concern,
and he orders Bobby to set up the transmitter and post guards around the perimeter,
which he says, I, sir, or yes, sir.
And then as you go do that, then he orders you to go get the weapons
that are hidden by the French resistance throughout the city.
It's sort of like, how many jobs are you going to give?
I'm doing a lot.
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby can do a lot of things.
Bobby can, Bobby is good, but I don't know if Bobby.
Bobby. Bobby's that good. He is that good. Really? Yes. He can. He can multitask. Is that what you're saying? He can. And Brigitte, you know, Brigitte never returned his letters. So she missed out. Because Bobby's good. By the way, I love when Chukote, as Captain Miller says to Brigitte, he goes, you've done a bang-up job up till now, but we'll take it from here. Tell your people to lie low and the Americans say thanks.
such an American like yeah it's so yeah it really it really was it really was I mean it was
sort of like you know your little your little deeds that you did thanks a lot your little things
that you helped out with which which were really small in comparison to us Americans yeah it was very
how great are we as Americans it definitely captured that sort of world war two
spirit of that confidence of like the military forces.
Yeah.
It's definitely did that.
And I loved how Brigitte didn't want to just sit back at this moment.
She's like she wants to fight.
Yes.
And Tuvok, whoever his character is, we don't know his name in this.
Can we give him the name?
Let's give one name.
What are you going to get?
I'm going to just call him Philippe.
Philippe.
Okay.
Brigitte and Philippe.
We.
Philippe says or Tuvok says.
you know, maybe he's right.
That's the military.
That's the army.
Let's just show them where the weapons are.
And so Brigitte has to go over with Bobby and talk about where the weapons are.
So that's what gets them together for this little side conversation.
She unrolls the map and she shows, hey, they're all buried right here, by the hill, over yonder, kind of a thing.
Yeah.
They start going through the hidden weapons.
And then, of course, you know, well, why didn't I hear from?
you and they talk about a movie they went to.
Here it comes.
They sort of disagree about which movie they saw last and what seen it was.
And then Bobby is like, no, I don't think it was that movie.
He gives a nothing.
And then she thinks about it.
And it was a nice moment where we're playing these characters with these neural interfaces
so we don't know who we are.
But for a moment, I saw Roxanne play like, am I remembering correctly?
Like I'm remembering the holodeck, but am I also remembering.
something else.
I don't know.
I interpreted that.
I wish there was more of that.
I wish all of us
that were supposed to have
these neural implants
had had moments of like,
wait a minute.
I'm kind of...
Deja vu kind of thing.
Yeah, deja vu or am I in a dream.
I wish we had played that harder.
But I thought Roxanne did it there
and it was great.
Such a long scene and long dialogue.
I wrote that down.
I go,
this is like the longest dialogue scene
between Paris and Torres.
It was a long time.
He pulls over a chair.
He asked, you know, how she got pregnant.
She talks about taking advantage of this, the second in command.
She was interested in her.
And she was trying to be, you know, a spy.
And he says, I'm really sorry.
I'm, you know, I'm sorry that you were put in that position.
Right.
But you're very understanding.
But there's also that point where you're like, well, I guess you've moved on or something.
She goes, like, well, there's never been another.
So it's sort of, I didn't quite understand what, I mean, is Brigitte still into Bobby?
Is that what she's saying?
Oh, I think so.
Or because she's playing quite, you know, like she's got her cards very close to her vest.
She's not really divulging her feelings.
So I wasn't sure where that was going exactly.
You know what could have been interesting?
I'm just spitballing on this.
But like, because so much of these holodeck characters and relationships were kind of a version of our real relationships but not.
Correct.
It would have been interesting if we had played in the holodeck.
Polydex simulation, totally different relationships.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That could have been really interesting
instead of just playing a watered down version
or whatever of, like if, you know, if,
I don't know, I don't know who, you know.
You're saying is if Paris was in a relationship
with 7 of 9's character is what you're saying, right?
Yeah, or if, not for a sheet, not Roxanne.
Yeah, or if Chacote, you know, if Captain Miller
which was Chikote,
if he was the one in a relationship
with Brigitte or something.
Yes, of course.
And then maybe, you know,
Tuvac was in a relationship
with the captain or something.
I don't know.
It would have been interesting
to mix it up in this one little,
you know,
it just occurred to me in this moment,
but I think part of my struggle
sometimes with the story,
I know that the intention was to echo
the stories of our real show,
but they didn't really.
They didn't.
They sort of were off.
And so it might have been better just to go completely dive in deep to something brand new and weird that we would never do on the show.
That's certainly what that's like.
Yes, that would have been an interesting choice.
Miller, Miller with Brigitte, okay, Philippe, aka Tuvok with Katrin Janeway, right?
Yes, yes, I like it.
That would have been interesting to me.
Yes, and especially interracial love back in the 30s.
My goodness, there's so many things that could have been played upon right there.
You know, so many angles and layers.
Maybe they considered it and decided to keep it a little closer to our,
just so it wasn't totally confusing.
But I don't know.
I think it just occurred to me.
That would have been interesting.
And it would have been interesting if Bobby was Tom Paris on the bridge
and Harry was Bobby.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Because in real life, it is Garrett who loves World War II stories.
I know.
era it's okay sorry it's sad well so this entire love fest is interrupted by noise by the
bar yes everyone draws weapons and draw the weapons points them below the bar and there's a panel
opens up and clearly it's a jeffrey's tube yeah but they don't know that because they're in
the simulation and they have a neural interface no so they draw their weapons and seven says uh sorry
janeway says yeah uh janeway says hold your fire yeah i love her accent on that
line. Oh, do you fire. Yeah, she did.
Hold your fire. It sounded like Iowa
or something. It was like an Iowa
farm girl. Is that what
you heard, kind of? I kind of heard like
matinee kind of like, you know,
like old Hollywood. Old Hollywood. Yeah,
old Hollywood. Yeah, a little bit like that. A little kind of
Hepburn. Yeah, Catherine Hepburn came out
a little bit. I felt. And this
is when Chakotay introduces
he says, I'm
Captain Miller. Here's Lieutenant
Davis. So now we know your rank.
We know your last name.
And this is the first time that we know that you're Davis.
We're just Bobby before, right?
Yeah.
And Captain Miller, he wants to call it an airstrike.
He feels like, look, you know, we're just going to take out this compound, which is developing a secret weapon.
Yeah, it's a munitions lab.
And Janeway says, yeah, that's what it is.
It is a munition.
He's like, let's blow it up.
She goes, no, no, no, no, we want to save it.
Yes.
There's new technologies in there.
And it could blow up the whole valley.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She goes, I got a plan.
I got a plan because I'm going to take out the generator that runs the whole,
the generator that runs the whole compound.
And really, in her, what she's saying is she's got to take out that console and sickbay is what it is.
Right.
So now we go to sickbay.
The doctor is trying to treat a critically injured Starfleet crew member who's been in
some holodex simulation and injured.
And then quickly, the Herodium medic says,
says, no, no, no, no, no. You need to help out this guy, which a Herojin warrior comes in, a
hunter, and he has. He's got burned. He's burned a little burned a little bit. Yeah, you know,
he's walking on his own, you know, he doesn't need any help. He's not on a stretcher,
but he orders the doctor to help him first. And the doctor flips out. He's like, what kind of
doctor are you? Everyone knows that you need to help those that are injured the most, the more
critically injured need to be helped first. And then the Herojin medic says, you know,
if you don't help my guy, our guy first, I'm going to deactivate you. The doctor complains
more. And indeed, he is deactivated by the Herojin. And he's gone out of that scene.
And he also says at the end, after he deactivates the doctor, he tells his buddy, he says,
from now on, leave the Starfleet. Oh, yeah, leave them where they lie. Yeah, he doesn't care about
helping them. Only bring our guys in here.
Yeah, that looks bad.
That's hardcore, not good.
Yeah, also puts our, you know, our series regular characters at risk now, even more risk.
Correct.
Because the audience knows if they get shot by these, these weapons in the hollow deck where the safety protocols are off,
that they'll be left to die.
That's right.
That's right.
We go to the caves now.
Neelix is drunk.
And oh, my God, did I love Johnny Phillips playing, playing on.
Oh, my God.
With a drunk cling on.
He's ready for a fight.
It's the eve of battle.
I don't know what they were saying half the time.
Well, he's talking about it being the dry season.
Yeah.
It was just so funny.
And I do remember watching this when it first was airing on UPN while we were filming.
I remember watching.
I remember because for me, what do I remember?
I remember my episodes on the bridge in the Sick Bay area in, sorry, not Sick Bay,
but mess hall fighting against doing the horogen's bidding kind of standing up against them i remember
all my scenes but i don't remember anyone else's scene so when i watched this episode when it's finally aired
i was so excited to see Ethan Phillips and he committed done oh he went all the way there was just
oh it was so good i loved it so much so funny that was awesome that was a great scene and nothing
really happens there but we do set up that these guys are waiting to fight yeah and we get a little
comic relief it's just a little yeah be sorry but a little levity yeah agreed and he i loved his
commitment Ethan philip's commitment in this to the cling on kind of character and he was great
so um we go out in the hall and there's harry there's gunshots everywhere and nazi appears
around a corner and then he's drawn his weapon at harry he's drawn his weapon at harry he's
his weapon and Harry about to shoot him and then all of a sudden he we hear a shot and the Nazi goes
down and Harry looks behind him and there's Paris or Bobby yes and I want to I do want to make clear
for our because when you're saying Nazi I'm going to say the German soldier because he wasn't
like the SS that that guy's a Nazi right so the the SS captain played by Jay Paul that that guy's
Nazi but a lot of those guys were just German soldiers right so I think we need to make that
distinction between the two um so as he falls down harry turns around and sees it's tom and he even
yells tom and harry goes wrong guy like just kind of you know kind of i don't want to say jerky but
he just he's he's he's he's on a mission he didn't know who you were no he doesn't know bobby did
not know who harry was yeah and held held his uh his hand gun up and uh put a gun to my face
Why are you out of uniform, he says to you.
And then Bobby goes, I don't have time for 20 questions.
You say you're in American.
Okay, then if Betty Grable came walking around that corner,
what part of her would you be staring at?
And then you see Harry thinking.
I'm like, oh, my God, what is it?
And you go back to Bobby and he goes, time's up.
Do you know what I did?
I remember this now.
After watching this, as an actor, my justification was I had no clue what part of the body was.
So I guessed, like Harry,
guessed that it was the legs and it was right that was my justification to make me even more like
oh and so when you when your character said lucky for you Megan quickly chimed in no
lucky for you that you didn't kill your best friend Tom that's why yeah that's right that would
have been horrible that would have been horrible if you woke up after your interfaces
disconnected and you asked where's Harry and then someone goes oh you shot him in the face he's dead yeah
you killed him so lucky for you lucky for you
as well.
Yeah. I didn't like the way I was holding the handgun.
I was holding, I was stabilizing my wrist way down here.
And, and I'm not, I'm not as familiar with handguns.
I don't, I don't own a handgun.
Do you mean when you were holding it and we're talking or when you were, when you were pointing
it at me?
When I was pointing it at you, now having directed a lot of shows with weapons in it,
with weapons, yeah, I know that I would stabilize my hand a little differently.
But in, I was holding like my forearm.
Were you holding your forearm?
I didn't even notice that.
Yeah, it was not.
I didn't even notice that.
It was bad technique now that I,
now that I know a little more than I did back then.
Yeah, I didn't, well, it didn't come off as being, you know, a huge error.
I mean, it didn't come.
I didn't notice it at all.
So, I think, that's just you being picky.
But now you know.
Now I know.
You grabbed it here, right?
Okay.
All right.
So then we go to the tube.
Go to the Jeffrey's tube and Janeway and Chiquet are in there.
And I love a little banter about, you know, you're different.
than the girls back home he said what did he says he says you're more gung ho
than the girls back home yeah gung ho which is a nice little nice little again sort of like
an echo of the relationship they have on our show but not exactly not exactly it um anyway
janeway says you know we're about to enter the underground caves or something and she says
I must warn you, the cave people are an eccentric people.
The cave people.
And, you know, it's the Klingons, but she's just trying to explain like tunnels under this town and there's weird people.
Yeah.
That does speak Klingon or something.
Could that be a T-shirt, Robbie?
Just an image of a bunch of Klingons and underneath it says the cave people.
The cave people.
They're an eccentric people.
They are.
They are.
We go into the caves with Jane Wanchote and there's the Klinger.
on are singing.
Yeah.
And, uh, and there's, there's, there's, uh, Neelik singing along with them.
Yeah. And, um, and he come, they come to, uh, he comes to ask them, uh, who they are.
And they say, what house are you from? And Janeway, Janeway says, uh, uh, the house of
to mag or Tomog or Tomog. Yeah. Yes. And the house of, she just makes it up. Right.
But then Ethan's response is hilarious.
He's like, Toe-Mogg.
I've never heard of it.
Yeah.
Also, like, brilliant.
Yeah, then he brings a drink down.
They're going to drink before battle.
So he brings down his, like, satchel of, you know, Klingon ale.
Yeah.
And it's a double, I never have seen one of these before.
It's a double satchel, like, it's got two sides.
Okay.
It looks like a bat left.
like kind of how the bathleth has two ends.
Yeah, yeah.
It was a nice little detail.
Yeah.
That was cool.
Not very practical, but, you know, I understood.
It was different.
But the whole purpose was to sort of kind of get the Klingons to ally with them in a way.
Ally with them.
And also distract them a bit because Janeway, she says, don't drink that.
It's twice as strong as the stuff you're used to.
Right.
And then Chukote stays back with Nielix and the other Klingon on the holodeck.
And she goes around and finds a panel hidden in some rocks, a holodeck panel, access panel.
And she beams in the doctor, initiates his program.
And now the doctor is part of this.
Yes.
And then they go back and there was a moment at the end of that scene where Neelix and the doctor are left alone.
And Neelix still thinks he's a Klingon.
So he's still acting it up.
And he sort of hit Bob on the shoulder.
Oh, I love that.
And he reacted.
And then he hit him again.
Oh,
I love that.
And I forget what the doctor said, but please don't do that.
Please don't do that or something.
I swear they must have added it.
I can't imagine that that was scripted.
I bet they added the hitting.
I'm sure that Ethan and Bob made that bit up.
Yeah.
I mean, that's one of the few times that maybe an ad lip was allowed.
Yeah.
you know yeah and oh i love the comment that the um neelix as a cling on says to the doctor
when he first sees the doctor he says oh is this one of your warriors and he goes he's a frail-looking
thing what he calls him yeah oh my god um i don't you i know you definitely don't know this because
you don't really watch my reaction videos uh and uh you don't really
see those, you know, because they come in and they finish product. But I talked about how
smart Bob is because we typically are not allowed to, we're not allowed to ad lib. But if you think
about it, the doctor has found a way around that. Because whenever you cut to the end of a scene
with the doctor, he always does a, hmm, he does a verbal adlet. Yeah. He always makes that
like an audible sound. Yeah, he makes a sound, which he can't.
get in trouble for because he's not saying a word.
He's just doing an extra. But that's,
that sound is always a comment, his final
last word. Always like the button
of the scene. You know what? The doctor's
like a teenager. Always has to have the last
word. And he has the last word with the
button with a sound. And
Bob Ricardo, as smarty as
he is, Mr. Yale himself
is able to squeeze that in
at the end of almost every scene
from this season on, I think
he has a little. He always gives a good button
at the end for sure. Exactly.
But again, him hit Ethan choosing to pop the doctor that one time.
No reaction in the second time really hard was just classic.
It's just like, oh, so funny.
So funny.
Good stuff.
Next we go back to the holodeck and there's battle raging and we see through a window that Brigitte
and Philippe, I guess, whatever we're going to calling Tuva.
are firing and
and then there's Tom
as Bobby behind them
yeah but he's behind them and I'm thinking
wait a minute he's the army guy
he's a soldier he's the army guy
and he's got the pregnant lady
in front of him
what as your shield
as your shield
why didn't I say like no no
no no no I'm going to go down front
put the pregnant lady behind me
I can't believe I let them go away
I love it I love it
Seven Returns to Tweek some weapons with German technology.
Yeah. And Tuvacaz-Philippe is very suspicious.
Oh, he's so suspicious.
Yeah, she says it's some German technologies.
It's so funny.
She's trying to fix this hand grenade or whatever she's working on.
She's trying to fix up this technology.
We go out to the street and the Herogen are pinned down.
And what's his name?
to Torange.
Torange requests for more backup, right?
Yeah, and he wants three nucleonic charges to penetrate the structure so he can get in.
Yeah.
And they, and Carr says, no.
No way.
But you'll, you, I want to keep, I don't want to destroy anything, but I'll send you some more hunters.
There you go.
So he's getting, he's getting extra hunters.
And then we go inside the Jeffries tube again.
Jamie Chikote.
Jamie Chikote, we find out there's a force field around the surgical bay.
Yeah.
And so they set a bomb right under Sickbay.
Yeah.
And they set this ticking bomb for five minutes, enough time for them to get up there.
With the old fashioned clock.
Oh, with the old from the holiday.
Yeah, from the 1940s.
Yes.
Clock.
That's a classic ticking time bomb.
Yes.
It was very funny.
It was.
We go up to Sick Bay and the Horogen Doctor is taken prisoner by Chkotay and Janeway.
She goes over to the doctor's desk.
to disable a force field.
We go on the bridge and Carr calls to sickbay and there's no answer.
So he sends some troops down.
Chikote is disarmed in the hallway as the troops are heading towards sickbay.
And the doc, Herojin guy, what's his name?
Herojin doctor.
We just say Herojin medic or doctor.
He takes Chikote's pistol, runs back into sick bay.
Janeway starts to try to get away and he shoots and she takes a shot to the leg.
And this is where I was like, oh, no.
I wish she had not gotten shot.
I wish they had.
And not in the leg, for God's sake.
Should have been in the shoulder or something.
Or if she had tried to dive out of the way and twisted her ankle, I could have bought that.
Yes, something like that or maybe grazed her in the forehead or something like something different.
But oh, and also interesting to note that at the top of this scene, the Horogen medic tells car that five hunters have been killed in the last hour.
So Herodians are now dying.
Okay, so this is just one.
Well, the safety protocols are off.
So everybody's up for grabs.
Yes.
This is one huge cluster.
Beep.
So it's, it's a problem.
So now Janeway hobbles off.
And that's when the Herogeon medic types into the, to the computer, the laptop.
Yeah.
And it says access denied.
So he's now unable to.
He's like, wait a minute.
What?
And then we cut down to the bomb.
Yeah, and, and kaboboom.
Bye-bye, Hirogyn medic.
He's done.
He's done.
Yeah.
We see sickbay blow up in a nice, a pretty good visual effect out in the hallway.
It's okay.
It was all right.
It was 90s.
It was a 90s.
Yeah, it was the 90s for sure.
It could have been better.
It's okay for the 90s.
But then I wrote down the neural interfaces are finally disabled.
Yes, they're disabled.
Yay.
I was so excited.
Now, Robbie was happy.
And everybody grabs their necks.
Yeah.
Everybody goes, ow, ow.
Oh, ow.
Ah, and then seven tries to quickly explain,
we're on a holiday simulation.
We've been, we've been boarded.
We have.
But the Nazis and the German troops and Tarange show up.
And Taranjans, they storm in and take them hostage.
So now they are prisoners.
And the SS captain slaps Torres because he's disgusted by her.
Slap.
Yes.
How'd you feel about that?
their lady getting slapped. I didn't like it. I didn't like that. I think Tom did jump up to defend
her, sort of pulled her away. Yeah. And at first I was like, that's not a strong enough move,
dude. Why didn't you go after him? But then a moment later, he does go after the Nazi
second in command guy. What's his name? Commandant? No, he's not Comedon. He is a captain,
actually. He's an SS captain. I don't know his actual name. I can't remember it. The Commandon
his car but tom does say at one point he goes pig and he jumps at him but then nazi
nazi draws the gun right and then that's when i wrote down how do you like a gun in your face tom
because you know it's got a gun in my face earlier so now you got a gun on your i know not there's a lot
of weapons in this a lot of this is a weapon lots a lot's a weapon and a lot of by the way
shell ejections out of all these weapons during oh yeah so we were firing a lot of blank
loads there. Obviously,
we've talked on the podcast
before about weapons on set and
safety concerns and things like that.
But the shell is still being ejected,
even though it's blank. The shell's being ejected and it's
hot brass. It's still hot
because there is gunpowder.
Yeah. Do you recall anyone getting burnt?
I don't remember, but that
happens often.
Yep.
When you're shooting blanks like
that. And there were a lot
of weapons there. I do remember lining
up in some of the scenes later when we
behind the barricades and Tuvok had a rifle and Tom Paris had a rifle and there were shell
casings getting ejected. So you have to be careful when you stage scenes and that the weapons
don't eject onto an actor next to you. And I was also looking for ear plugs because they're
very loud. And so I thought I did see some in Tim Russ, some ear plugs at one point. But I was very
aware of a lot of, you know,
Roxanne Dawson was firing a handgun.
Yes, she had an ejecting shells.
So there was a lot of real simulated gunfire with with hot brass getting ejected
throughout the episode.
And I don't recall our safety protocols.
I'm going to assume that they were up to the standards of the time for sure.
I think things are even generally safer now.
And certainly since that tragedy that happened on set in the down.
near Albuquerque, things are even more, you know, more safe.
The protocols are much stricter.
By the way, let me just quickly interrupt.
Since we are in a World War II simulation, Megan and I just watch 1917.
Have you seen that?
The San Mandi's movie?
Yeah.
That's like one take.
Yeah, the whole movie is a winner.
It's not really, but it's not completely, but maybe there's two cuts in the entire film.
It's still amazing, though.
It's, yeah, it's pretty amazing.
I was blown away.
really was. So anyway. Yeah, it's pretty phenomenal. Yeah. All right. Let's move on.
Yeah. So we go back to the caves. Yeah. Back to the caves. And because these neural interfaces
have been deactivated, Nelix is back, but he still looks like a Klingon. Yes. And he looks great.
He looked great as a Klingon, by the way. Yeah. But he's acting like Nelix now. Yeah, he's funny.
And the Klingons wake up, the hungover Klingons wake up. And they're like, time for battle. And they
come over and they grab neelix and the doctor they hand the doctor a hand weapon a knife or
something neelix a batliff yeah and so as they're heading off to battle do you hear neelix go
kapla right doctor goes tally ho yeah i mean he says tally ho which was funny but then i thought
when did the doctor become british i don't know what's happening right here huh okay i don't know
but it's still a funny that's what they wrote yeah that's what they wrote and he went tally ho
And I thought,
And off they go.
To war.
They were very,
our comic relief guys,
Neil is named after.
We go to the ready room and Jane,
injured Janeway
comes in with her gunshot wound.
Who is sometimes aware of her gunshot wound
and other times not, yes.
Yeah.
And Kate is such a good actress,
but this is,
that was a hard injury to sustain.
Yeah.
And match with all the other things
they scripted her to do.
So that's what I think led to some of the inconsistencies.
But anyway, she comes in and he wants her to help with, you know, what's going on.
He threatens to kill all of them.
If she doesn't cooperate with him, she refuses.
And he gets really intense.
He says, this is not a game.
And then goes on to explain what his thoughts are that he wants a future for his people.
And he says, my people are hunting themselves into extinction.
and it seems like the holodeck, oh, I wrote down for myself.
He's talking about how badly he wants to get this technology from Voyager.
And I'm thinking the whole time, you guys have spaceships and all kinds of weapons.
How hard is it to invent a virtual reality simulation situation?
Like, we have, you know, flight simulators that have been around in America for 50 years.
like we have Oculus glass like really you're you can't invent your own virtual reality something
but okay yeah this is a pretty ancient species they've been around for a while so you would
think their technology is still going to be good enough to have their own they're good enough to
fly spaceship through space exactly so like can't you guys invent your own Oculus goggles or something
right but we wouldn't have this episode so we wouldn't have this episode so we wouldn't have
I do like the line from Carr.
Your people have faced extinction many times, but you've always managed to avoid it.
You seem to recognize the need for change.
And then Janeway sort of takes control.
She's like, look, let's end this now.
I will give you the technology that you can now recreate on your own and just give me back
my ship.
You know, let me give you.
Let's just end this.
This is ridiculous.
And it's important.
This scene is very important because now Janeway knows why this is how.
happening because before this she just thought this was just some you know some type of um uh what's the
word i'm trying to say not sedition sadistic sort of like sadistic exactly some type of sadistic uh you know
weird torture torture thing that they're yeah good that they're putting uh upon the starfleak crew
and i love her little end line it would be cunning for you to agree because car has used that
adjective for the human race being cunning and she says it'll be cunning for you guys to agree
to this, because Carr really lets down his guard a little bit.
He lets Janeway know why he's doing this.
He also lets Janeway know he admires the human race, you know, for being survivors and
being able to embrace change, which is something that he's trying to enact with his people,
which is something that they are very much against doing.
They want to stick to the old ways, right?
So this is a critical scene for this entire episode.
It changes everything.
I also thought this scene with Carr and Janeway was very bold and it's
staging, maybe a little heavy-handed almost, because he starts behind the desk in the power
position.
Yeah.
And near the end, he kind of comes out to join her.
And then she moves back behind her desk to the power position.
Oh, right.
Like she comes in as the prisoner.
Right.
And he's behind the desk in the power in charge.
And by the end, she's behind the desk.
It felt slightly heavy handed to me, but it was cool.
By the end, I would have liked to have seen cars sitting in Janeways.
lap that would have been an interesting choice as well yeah it was we were we were close to that
we were in that direction almost we go back to the bar and taranj is like he's tired of the
simulation he's drinking some wine he's like simulated wine everything's simulated
something real he's sick of it j paul bowmer uh s s captain is now speaking to taranj and
just kind of getting in his ear at this point you know like you know this is this is ridiculous
We need to do something, you know.
Why are we even, why aren't we executing these people?
And, you know, I don't agree with any of this.
And at this point, Taranj is like, you know what, let's just have some singing.
Okay, let's just pass the time and orders seven to get up and sing.
And seven, not being the holiday character any longer, refuses.
And I thought it really interesting that she drew the line here.
Because Taran's singing.
Yeah, because he says, if you don't sing, I will kill you.
and she says fine go ahead and then she she spout something about and by the way
the board will someday you know you may not be assimilated now but when the board do get you know
to you guys you're done you know and you and the last thing you can remember will be my face
and it's sort of like what where is all this profile coming from yeah what is this like it's
kind of weird because she doesn't I don't know why she got so brave and so cocky and so
So, like, blah, blah, blah, I will die.
This is the hill that I die on.
Like, really?
Singing.
Yeah, the singing, the singing hill.
I will not sing.
There's some things I just will not do.
You can.
And singing is it.
Is it?
I draw the line.
If you, I cannot sing for you.
It is against the core of my body and my morals.
What is this?
I don't get it.
Just as, just as he's about to shoot her, though,
Carr calls in and says, okay, we've reached a truce.
yeah and there's a ceasefire let everybody know there's a ceasefire and the nazi or capitan or whatever
he he says look i told you you know he's this guy is making really bad calls and so when the
when car has called for a ceasefire they've released all of us seven and right and balana and tom
and they've been released.
And then the Nazis like, see, you know, he's lost it.
He's lost it.
You need to go out there and you've got to ignore his orders and go out there and fight
these guys.
And they exit.
So you can see, we see Taranj, he's gotten to him.
He's used Nazi thinking, you know, horrible Nazi beliefs and things that he says to
Tarange that really gets to him and sends him out the door.
It's so crazy that Nazi ideology has now basically convinced an entirely different species of alien that this is the way to go.
It's sort of like to round.
It's like, gosh, you're making a lot of sense, you know, which then makes you realize that if you're a good speaker, you can convince people to come down the wrong path very quickly, which is a little dangerous, right?
especially when you appeal to the ego or a power position or something yeah so now we're in the town streets
and i love this scene and you don't see paris and seven that often but now you have a shot
or a scene with paris and seven walking along and boy tom is getting into he's getting it now he's
he's aware of what he's doing yeah i wish i wish bobby had been like this i wish they had written
Bobby yeah because he goes come on keep it moving get the lead out of your pants yeah yeah and then
seven says something like mid 20th century american slang you're enjoying this simulation aren't you
what did you call her i said loosen up baby doll yeah the war's almost over you the only word
you didn't use was toots you didn't call her but you said everything else to her which was hilarious
very funny yeah yeah he was enjoying it but then all of a sudden bang it's a shot yeah and the
The fighting starts again.
Taranj has come out, and now it's really, it is on, and the fighting gets big.
We go back to the caves, the drunk Klingons are there, and Doc and Niela, the Dr.
Neelix asked the Klingons, they, you know, you want to fight, we got to fight for you,
we need your help.
And they, and they don't want to listen.
And so Nelix, not as his Klingon persona, but as Nielix goes over and says, you will listen,
he really loses it.
You remember what predicated that.
Like he first says,
excuse me,
he's being knee legs,
excuse me,
and they are not even paying attention.
That's when the doctor has his immortal,
his immortal line.
They're clingons,
not kittens.
And so that's when he gets on his soapbox
and yells at them.
Come on.
He rallies the troops.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We go to engineering.
Janeway's in there
trying to shut down the hollow emitters.
She calls Harry.
Yep.
from from engineering yeah she says to overload the hollow emitter network using the secondary
power relays to trigger the overload this is when they're interrupted by taran who shows up
who shows up by himself and he decides that it's time to end the rain of car he fires he says
step away from the controls he does car just sort of hesitates yeah he shoots him once yeah
and then he's he's kind of stumbled there and he says step away from the control's he does he says step away from the controls he does he does
then he's he's kind of stumbled there and he says step away from the controls yeah and car says listen to me
he's trying to like say his point again and he shoots him again and he shoots him and janeway goes down
and then she looks at taran she's like what are you waiting for go ahead do it yeah shoot me and taran
says you're my prey run yeah and then she runs with her shot leg oh and we go back to the streets
the battle is raging.
We are losing ground.
We are outnumbered.
Seven is modifying this explosive device, a grenade.
Yeah.
To emit a burst, a photonic burst to disrupt the hollow emitters.
We go back to the hall.
Janeway runs into a tube and Taranj comes over and he's hunting her and he sort of feels
the panel and he can feel her energy.
Yeah.
I really like that part where Taranj touches the, like he can feel that she was here,
you know, which is kind of cool.
I don't know if he was directed that way
or if he chose that action himself
but however however that came about
it was effective for me.
Yeah. I have a question.
I was thinking about this
when the episode finished
but it comes to mind right now
seems just to go to places
any to talk about it.
Sure.
All the Herogen are men.
Are there no lady herogens?
Is this just dudes
that feel like they got to shoot guns
all the time
and fight everybody?
Is it like, how do they have baby herogen?
It's the most toxic masculine species in the, in the universe.
All they want to do is fight and there's no ladies around.
None.
I was just like, wait a minute.
And then Rebecca and I were talking and she was like, well, maybe, you know, some reptiles,
maybe they don't need females.
Well, I thought so.
I don't know biology that well, but I googled it.
I was like, how do reptiles reproduce.
They do have male and female.
They do.
reptiles have both male and female chromosomes and they can sort of change oddly enough.
It gets complicated, but I don't think, my point is, I don't think the Herojin don't have the
ladies around. Like, I think they must have the ladies. So where were they?
Right. But there are species on earth that, that kind of, you know, seahorses. Is it seahorses?
yeah that can give birth regardless and they're kind of genderless right and they can give birth
I think seahorses are the ones where the males are the males give birth or I don't know I don't know
I think there are some species that have no gender right then they're able to still give birth
and they don't have a male or a female designation I thought I am not that smart
I just say right now anything any opinion I offer will be a total guess
because I don't know.
Okay, fine.
So they're in the tube and Janeway is trying to get away.
She's in the Jeffrey's tube.
They're trying to get away.
They jump to the bridge.
Harry sets the timer for the overload.
At this,
now,
wait a minute.
Let me ask you,
why did you set it at nine minutes?
Like,
why didn't you just say now?
Because a lot of crap happens that you could have prevented if you just went,
how about a five second count down?
Why do we need nine minutes?
I'm going to,
Okay. My, my, my, the way that I justified that was. Yeah. I want to hear right. I hear it. Here it is. My choices, my choices were one hour, 45 minutes, 30 minutes, 25 minutes and nine minutes. Like, nine minutes was the default shortest amount of time allowed to, I couldn't get it any shorter than nine minutes. But that's the only thing that I could come up with. But you're right. The same thought. I was like, why?
I was like, why is it nine minutes?
It's so like an attorney.
It's a random and it's an eternity.
That must be, you know, maybe it's a Brandon Braga thing.
Maybe nine has some significance in his life or something.
I don't know.
Or Monoski's life.
Who knows?
But the funny thing about this is that in this scene on the bridge, before Harry, before you see the nine minute thing, you do see, the camera is on a horogen who's over at one of the side stations there.
And he's talking to another horogen.
He's like, I'll be back.
I'm going to Sigbay.
And then I thought, Sickbay, Sick Bay is demolished.
Where are you going?
There's no sick bay.
Sickbay blew up.
So that was.
Sigby blew up.
And in a few minutes, very soon, seven's going to get shot.
How does she survive?
That's true.
The safety protocols are off.
That's true.
Sick Bay is blown up.
That is true.
How did she survive?
Anyway.
Well, it's clearly with the Herogen, whoever was the loop.
doing whoever the loop group was that adds in those little lines right there,
someone didn't get the memo that there is no sickbay.
And they probably thought, oh, this was great.
He's going to go to sick bay.
And there's no sickbay.
So I felt like they must know that, right?
I mean, I guess you could say maybe he didn't get a,
that maybe it didn't come over the systems alerts or something.
But I would think that if sickbay blows up,
it's going to be like a tweet that everybody gets.
Yeah, but whose job is that to tell the loop group?
pay you can't say that here is that is that oh i think it's beyond loop group mary how who's
who's job producer that would have been okay so who's that who's the post producer that would
have been whoever we had a few different one dawn oh don oh don't uh Velazquez okay or um or
I'm trying to remember all the names of those post guys Steve was our last
Steve was another guy too yeah okay so one of the post producers forgot to give the memo
it would have been them I think yeah
But I don't know. Maybe they were logicking it some other way.
I just want to know the logic of seven got shot,
get the safety protocols off, and there's no sick bay.
How?
Well, I'm assuming that there is some type of dermal regenerator kit.
Okay. It's her board technology.
All right, that I can go with.
Maybe. Maybe.
Okay. Let's move on.
Nine minutes. Yeah, we go on the streets.
Seven's finishing this grenade.
She's about to throw it and she gets shot as we discussed.
she goes down appearing dead by the way and paris jumps over now did you notice the helmet in my face
no why i remember shooting this and the helmet kept falling because when i when i turn around and
look down it would it would fall down fit me it would fall and i remember them just going we did it a
couple times and it kept falling in my face and they were like it's fine don't worry about it we got
it and then i looked at it tonight i'm like i couldn't even see where i was diving like
like and here's another thing by the way I noticed
all those scenes many of those
battle scenes in the day and night time
had a really strong rain happening
I don't know if you noticed like
yeah it was raining
it never rains in L.A. I mean it's very rare
that was not added rain no
that was real rain that you guys were dealing with
yeah I didn't notice that those streets were wet
yep yeah
Hmm. Interesting. And then you're right. In Los Angeles, it's usually dry 360 days of the year. So to see any type of precipitation is odd. I agree. Yeah. But they're captured. Paris goes after this grenade with this helmet in his eyes. But the grenade does explode, go off, and it does. It takes out all the U.S. troops and all your ammunition as well, right? All your holographic weapons and grenades. Everything.
He's gone near you, but of course, everyone else, all the Germans,
they still have their stuff because they're still okay because they weren't affected by it.
So you guys are now.
So we are captured.
You're captured.
Yep.
We go back to the hall.
Janeway's running.
And she sees this area where the hollow emitters do not reach because she sees someone
laying there, a holographic character.
And his legs are only halfway there.
And then she pulls him back and the legs appear.
So she's like, oh, that's.
that's the end of the hollow projector.
Well, I didn't, actually, the hollow, remember, that part of the deck was blown out.
So the hollow emitters were damaged there.
This is what I, what I, oh, I see.
You know what I'm saying?
You know what I'm saying?
So because Harry had already rigged the entire ship to have hollow emitters practically, right?
Yeah.
But as ordered by cars.
So I said because of the damage in that area that the hollow emitters blew out.
But regardless, the hollow emitters are not working there.
That's why his legs had disappeared.
His legs were gone.
and then she pulled him back and they were, they appeared.
So she hatches this plan to sort of lure.
So smart.
Smart garage over there.
Back to the town streets.
And now SS captain is talking to Brigitte, a.k.a. Torres.
And he says, I will spare your life because you are carrying a German child.
But that's the only reason why.
And that was it.
So we go, we go back to the, we go back to the, we go back to the, the, the, the.
And Taranj is heading down and she's hiding behind some debris and says,
please don't shoot me.
Don't shoot me.
I'll give up.
And so she appears to sort of be giving up.
And as he approaches to try to get a better angle on her, his weapon fritzes out because his
holographic weapon is beyond the range of the hollow emitters.
She clocks him with a pipe.
She's like, bam.
But then did you ask this question also?
Did you have this question as well?
after she hits him, she looks down.
But the weapon's gone, though, at that point.
So do you see what I'm saying?
Unless when she fall.
It sort of was fritzing because he was on the edge.
What I thought was he's on the edge of this.
He looks down, it's fritzing.
She hits him and knocks him back.
And now he's back into the holographic space and it's laying on the ground.
And the weapon falls back into where the matters are.
The splitting hairs a little bit.
Okay.
But I think it has to be some version of that.
All right.
I'll buy that.
She seizes the weapon.
And now he is the prey.
And Janeway is running after him, which is lovely, a little switch here, a little change
of pace, right?
Go back to the streets and all of us are about to be executed.
We're pulled up and lined up by some walls here.
So it's Philippe, Bobby, and Miller.
So Bobby Davis, Captain Miller, and Philippe Tuvok that are lined up against the wall to be shot.
Yep.
and just as that's getting ready to be arranged,
the Klingons arrived.
Kapala!
They run in with such emotion and...
Here come the Klingons and they're stalled for a minute.
We cut back into the corridors.
Tarange is running down a corridor and gets to the edge of the exposed holodeck that was
blown up, the big chunk and he looks down.
He's at the breach and he's looking out at the town now, right?
Looking out of the town.
And he's looking down as the, as the, as the, uh, Klingons are arriving.
We cut back down and there's Dr.
And Neelik standing under an awning at a cafe because it was raining on the universal
studio's back lot where we filmed this at European Street.
Yeah.
Um, it was raining so hard.
They put them under some, like an awning of a cafe as the, as the, as the Klingons ran by,
they're standing.
And then I think Bob even like leaned out.
He played.
But it's sort of like, why are you, you're the hologram?
You're a hologram.
Why are you playing being annoyed by the rain?
So that was my note.
Like, I don't know, I don't know why you're doing that,
other than for comedic, you know, level of, yeah, I suppose.
He was like standing on the edge of the awning and then dripping on his head.
Tarant is at the breach.
He's looking out.
He sees the Klingons attacking all of the soldiers, and he is concerned.
And at that moment, Janeway arrives.
And she has the gun trained on him.
and she says it's done where it's over and she gives him a chance she says don't even try to
you know make a move and he does he doesn't listen to her he makes the move and he gets shot
we cut back below this this big breach yeah and we see him falling towards camera it was a digital
version though that body falling and back in the 90s those digital you know uh CGI people
yeah we're not nearly as detailed as they you know they're not as good as now by
Yeah. And that's one of the first. We may have had one or two of those situations on our show before, but it's very rare. So I was kind of like, whoa, they really did a lot of, that's a compound complex VFX that Dan Curry did there. It was very cool. Like on a scale from 1 to 10, let's say 10 is how VR is now, like or any type of digital rendered character now, okay? Yeah. I wonder if 10 is now, what was that rendering back then on a scale of 1 to 10? 2 or a 3.
Yeah, very low, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, it's so much better now.
Just processors and technology and light control and light modeling and space modeling, all that stuff is so much better, so much more detail.
Yep.
Okay.
We jump to the bridge and that's when the overload happens.
So we finally, the nine minute overload.
So funny that you said that.
Why nine minutes?
Because that's Harry's favorite number.
He loves nine.
Exactly. It's his lucky number.
He loves so much.
Town Streets, there's
hand-to-hand combat, which happens
until the overload happens, right?
So now everything stops.
We have a lovely corridor
montage at the end.
I have a question, though.
When this overload happens
and all the hologram characters
disappear, why doesn't
the whole set disappear, too?
Like,
the people disappear.
But it should look like my background right now.
It should look like projectors or wherever we were.
Like the whole thing.
It should have all been gone.
It should have all been gone.
It would have been bulkhead of the ship.
That's it.
Yeah.
I'm just saying, okay, never mind.
Good catch.
Look at that.
And you're like a regular Sherlock Holmes.
I really am.
I'm a detective.
So we go to the captain's log.
And we've got a montage.
of Starfleet walking down the hall,
and we got a montage of Herodian walking down the hall.
And during this log, she does reference that the fighting continued for a while.
That just because the holodeck thing went off,
they kept fighting.
So there must have been, you know, quite a bit more,
which is also scary because our sick bay was blown up.
I keep, you know, wanting to emphasize that.
Like, we had no sickbay and the war can, you know,
this battle of Horogen's continued.
So we missed a lot of ugly stuff, right?
Anyway, Janeway says after lengthy negotiations,
the Herogen have agreed to accept this Uptronic Data Corps,
that we're going to have a truce.
They can create their own holodeck technology.
And she tells the Herogen, when they meet up in Cargo Bay,
she says, I made a promise to the Alpha Herogen to Carr,
and I intend to keep my promise.
And she says, finally, she says, please, accept this trophy to create a new future for your people.
Yeah, the exact quote.
Let me just say, she says, accept this trophy.
You can use it to create a new future for your people.
At the very least, you can hang it on your bulkhead.
Yeah.
Because, yeah, that was the one, the one, Horogian was like, I don't believe in what Carr was doing.
He's too much of a, you know, revolutionary, right?
Yeah.
So great final speech, final line from Janeway.
Yeah.
We have an exterior space shot of the Hurogen vessels moving away from Voyager.
Yep.
And that is the end of the episode.
Is your theme the same?
Is your theme the same from last week?
My theme this week is, just stop fighting.
Fighting is dumb.
That's my theme.
Oh, wow.
I don't remember my theme from last week, but it's just like, fighting is dumb, you guys.
Okay.
Hey, guys.
Hey, y'all, stop fighting.
Hey, y'all, stop fighting.
Fighting is dumb.
There's other techniques we can use to solve our problems other than the fighting stuff.
I think, I mean, I'm being a little silly and glib, but like the truth is when they talked about, when Carr talked with Janeway about, you know, I've learned so much about your people and how they've been on the verge of extinction many times.
They talk about World War II being, you know, some of the world.
of it.
Yeah.
Fighting is dumb.
Like, when are we going to freaking learn to stop this war thing and this hatred thing?
Yeah.
You know, I think that is the theme to me is like to stop, stop with it.
Yeah, because if you think about the loss of life from World War II, that's just crazy how
many people died.
Millions.
During that conflict.
And not just soldiers, not just soldiers, but civilians left and right, many civilians.
you know and i i in a perfect world conflict between two countries should be settled between the
two leaders and by boxing gloves so no one dies so whoever knocks the other person out is the
winner that's it right sure so it would have been a video game they could play like a little video game
exactly this this round of halo this round of halo is the winner of the the conflict exactly
well my theme is similar to last last week because it's still the same episode really and that
theme is do not be afraid of change learn to embrace change because change is how you grow as a human
being so that's my theme i like it thank you all right everyone thank you for tuning in for killing game
part two thanks everyone crazy for joining us yeah big big episode scale of one to 10 what do you give
this one i'm still going to give it a high high mark it's going to still going to get a nine from me
Wow. Nice. I don't remember what I did last week, but I feel like this week should be higher than last week. I'm going to give this an eight. Oh, wow. What did I do last week? You gave it a seven, I think, is what you did. So yeah, yeah. So you did raise it. Okay. Yeah, I go to it. I would give it an eight, maybe even an eight point five, because I really did like a lot. It was action-packed. Oh. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
You added a 0.5 on there?
I'm not given an 8.5.
Yeah.
If I said 7 last week, I'm going to say 8.5 this week.
Okay.
Would you give it an 8.75?
No.
Okay.
No.
Just 8.5.
Did I give, did I give Mortal Coil 10 out of 10?
Yeah, you did.
This is why I enjoy Robbie's company so much.
Just these little small interactions like that when I go,
but would you give it a 9.75?
No.
He's like,
I draw the line here.
See, just like 7-9 draws the line at singing,
I draw a line at 9.75.
I don't go that far.
Nope.
Nope.
All right.
I might sing it,
but I won't do it.
Okay.
All right.
Well,
thanks, everyone.
Thank you, everybody.
Join us next week
when Robbie and I review the episode vis-a-vis-vis.
Oh, yeah.
Vis-a-vis.
Great. Thanks, everybody. Have a great week. Bye.