The Delta Flyers - The Raven

Episode Date: September 27, 2021

The Delta Flyers is a weekly Star Trek: Voyager rewatch and recap podcast hosted by Garrett Wang and Robert Duncan McNeill. Each week Garrett and Robert will rewatch an episode of Voyager starting at the very beginning. This week’s episode is The Raven. Garrett and Robbie recap and discuss the episode, and share their insight as series regulars.The Raven:Seven of Nine experiences flashbacks from her life before assimilation, and flees Voyager in an attempt to join the Borg again.We want to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Executive producers Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill, and our Post Producer Jessey Miller.And a special thanks to our Ambassadors, the guests who keep coming back, giving their time and energy into making this podcast better and better with their thoughts, input, and inside knowledge: Lisa Klink, Martha Hackett, Robert Picardo, Ethan Phillips, Robert Beltran, Tim Russ, Roxann Dawson, and Kate Mulgrew.Additionally we could not make this podcast available without our Co- Executive Producers: Stephanie Baker, Philipp Havrilla, Kelton Rochelle, Liz Scott, Sab Ewell, Sarah A Gubbins, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Chris Knapp, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Courtney Lucas, Matthew Gravens, Elaine Ferguson, Brian Barrow, Captain Jeremiah Brown, Heidi Mclellan, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, John Espinosa, James Zugg, Deike Hoffmann, Mike Gu, Anna Post, Shannyn Bourke, Vikki Williams, Lee Lisle, Mary Beth Lowe, William McEvoy, Sarah Thompson, Mike Devlin, Holly Smith, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Amber Eason, Lucas Shuck, Mary Burch, Nicholaus Russell, Lisa Robinson, Joshua McHenry, Darryl Cheng, Alex Mednis, Elizabeth Stanton, Kayla Knilans, Tim Beach, Ariana, Meg Johnson, Victor Ling, Marcus Vanderzonbrouwer, Nathan Walker, Shambhavi Kadam, John Mann, James H. Morrow, Christopher Arzeberger, and Melissa LauAnd our Producers:Jim Guckin, James Amey, Katherine Hedrick, Eleanor Lamb, Richard Banaski, Eve England, Ann Harding, Laura Swanson, Ann Marie Segal, Charity Ponton, Chloe E, Kathleen Baxter, Craig Sweaton, Nathanial Moon, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Mike Schaible, Kelley Smelser, AJ Provance, Captain Nancy Stout, Claire Deans, Matthew Cutler, Maxine Soloway, Joshua L Phillips, Barbara Beck, Mary O'Neal, Aithne Loeblich, Dat Cao, Cody Crockett, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, James Cottrell, Jenna Appleton, Cindy Ring, Andrei Dunca, Jason Wang, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Amber Nighbor, Jamason Isenburg, Mark G Hamilton, Rob Johnson, Kevin Selman, Michael Bucklin, Lisa Klink, Justin Weir, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlmann, Mike Chow, Kevin Hooker, Michelle Maroney, Michael "Klink" Klinckhardt, Megan Chowning, Rachel Shapiro, Eric Kau, Joseph Lanning, Melissa A. Nathan, Captain Jak Greymoon, Yousuf Khan, and David Wei LiuThank you for your support!Our Sponsors:* Check out Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/TDFSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Delta Flyers with Tom and Harry as we journey through episodes of Star Trek Voyager. Your two hosts along this journey are myself, Garrett Wong, and my co-host, none other than Mr. Robert Duncan McNeil. Robbie. Hello, sir. How are you? Hello, hello, hello. Good to be back with you. You've been a busy man lately. I've been a busy bee. I've been running around, yeah, four conventions and, no, three conventions in four weeks and then Star Trek Day on top of that. Wow. So, yeah, it's been crazy. It's a lot of travel. How do the conventions feel like generally?

Is it starting to feel more normal or no? Yes and no. I mean, you know, a lot of COVID, you know, protocols are in place and people are, yeah, having to get tests and this and that and show vaccination. So that's different. And the big question mark is people are just wondering, you know, how close can we get to people, this kind of stuff? So should we take a selfie at our table? So there's a lot of these kind of questions. So there's less people, less people at the Big Trek Convention in Vegas, definitely less people at the convention in Atlanta, Dragon Con that I just attended.

And also the Maryland one, less, less, less people. But still, really passionate and excited fans to get back to the whole con. scene period. You know, that's been, that's been the overall takeaway that I've had. And Star Trek Day was fun. I got to meet some of these showrunners. So McMahon, I finally met. He was sitting seated next to me, actually, for Lower Decks, the showrunner for Lower Decks. Somebody who is a showrunner for, I guess it's for Prodigy knows you from Chuck Days. Is that right? No, Strange New World. Probably Chris Fisher. Yeah. So there's so many Trek shows out there. And there's so many showrunners. It's like, what? Okay, Strange New Worlds. Yes. I bet it was Chris Fisher. Yeah. Chris was a director on Chuck when I was producing the show. And Chris, Chris is awesome. We've been friends since then. He, Chris was the producer, director on magicians for, uh, however long three, four, five years that that ran. Right. And Henry Alonzo Myers, maybe. Henry, uh, is a writer who was on Chuck.

and then magicians and now strength new worlds who has glasses and a bit of a facial hair who's that that's probably henry oh okay henry alonzo meyers yeah okay i forgot henry's uh okay i don't know if he's show running or but anyway strange new worlds yeah good is that's what he's connected to i think so yeah all right yeah yeah it's awesome i love when worlds like chuck and star trek collide i love that that's a cool that's a cool combo it is a cool combo yeah so those those Those guys are, you know, it's interesting because they actually talk to each other. So lower decks, we'll talk to Prodigy to make sure that whatever guest stars they use from, you know, traditional treks such as Voyager, TNG, so that there's no no overlapping.

They don't want to, you know what I'm saying? Fighting with each other. Exactly. Exactly. I love that they're trying to bring back, you know, and it's just little sprinkles here and there. Obviously, Jerry Ryan and Seven of Nine is not just a little sprinkle. Right. She's not a sprinkle. But that's a full meal. That's a full meal completely. Yes. When we're using food metaphors. Yeah, I love that. That is a main course. And I was a condiment on lower deck.

You were a condiment? I was like the mustard. Spicy mustard. You were spicy mustard. You or maybe you were a great Poupon. I don't know. I would rather be great Poupon. Thank you. It would be great Poupons. Yeah. Well, it's funny that you have these food metaphors because this is what I've been saying to people when I was at DragonCon. I was talking to people in my panel saying, I know, who here is a newbie? Who's who's here for the first time at DragonCon? And, you know, a smattering of people would raise their hands. And I would say, well, guys, you are experiencing an extremely abbreviated form of the convention. Essentially, you guys are eating vegetable spring rolls. You have an appetizer. This is the exact, exact, uh, you're just getting a little appetizer.

Just get a little appetizer. It's like a, and then, yeah. Yeah, it's like a share, family share place. And I said, exactly. I said, wait until the masks are no longer mandated and we're past this. And then you get the full pot tie entree noodle dish, right? That's what I've been telling people. Nice.

There you go. Okay, man. What is, what is it this week? Oh, yes. I should even, I should probably say the name of the episode. Yes. Got to talk. Okay.

Give it to me. The Raven. The Raven. Yes. Such an ominous title. Yes, it is. A little Edgar Allan Poe maybe. Let's go watch The Raven.

Let's do it. Okay. See in a minute. Hey, everyone. We are back from watching The Raven. The Raven. Yes. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Very interesting episode. Yes. Very interesting. You know, you had mentioned the Ravens NFL football team, and I have to say that the Beaumar aliens looked like they were wearing football helmets in this episode. They had this like safety bar, safety around the ears, you know, protector, safety.

Yeah, it looked like a tackle football, American football helmet. Yes, it did, but it also looks like something else. I'm shocked that you didn't make this connection first. What else does it look like? Making mouse ears? I don't know. No, and this is how Beltran always describes them. The catchers mask.

Oh, yes, they do. It looks like a baseball, yeah, a major league baseball catchers mask kind of thing. Is that what Beltran called them? Yes, because he would always refer to this episode and he would say, hey, you remember the episode with the catchers mask people? And I would sit there, I like, I would think, huh? Because I wasn't in any of those scenes. You weren't in any, no.

No. So my bet was right. One of us was in a lot of it. It was you. You were in a lot of these scenes. I guess I was. I was in medium amount. But I mean, you were in all the scenes.

But we'll talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. There's a reason I don't remember me being in it. I feel like I was not invested in this story. Like watching it. I was like, what am I playing? Anyway, we'll get into that.

But have you ever heard him talk about this episode about these two, millions. Yeah, now that you mention it, I feel like the catchers, yeah, the Catchers Mask episode. Right. I feel like I remember him saying that, but I didn't put it all together. So what he would say is he talked about the difference in the dialect or the difference in the voices between the two guest actors that were supposedly of the same alien species, right? So played by Richard Zobel, Richard J. Zobel, who passed away, unfortunately, in 2005, and Mickey Cottrell. So both of these individuals are both Americans, but the way Beltran tells a story, one guy is extremely New York, which is not true. His voice sounds more just American, right?

But the way Beltran tells a story, he's like, you've got these two aliens. And one's talking like this. If you want to go through our territory, you've got to do these things. And he does this kind of almost like a De Niro voice, right? And then the other guy he does is very British and very Shakespearean. And you must adhere to our guidelines. when you approach our, you know. That's Mickey Cottrell.

He was from, he was from the South. He was like from Kentucky or something. Arkansas or Arkansas or something like that. So he's got a, because I picked that out right away. I was like, wait, that's a southern twang in there. But it's Southern Twang mixed with like, he's like, he's doing Shakespeare. Like he's like a very classically trained, you know, actor sounding voice. Does that sound right?

Yes. So I think actually Mickey Cottrell, he had a line in here that like, He had a line where he said something like, maybe our translators are not working or something, but the way he said it with such an attitude and such a southern passive, aggressive thing that I was very familiar with that southern smile while you step, put a knife in someone's back. They all bless your heart, bless her heart or bless their heart, yes. But the way Beltran tells it, it's always been this heavy, heavy New York accent guy. and really very British guy. But now that I listen to it, that's not it.

It's actually a very American-sounding guy. And then someone who's got a southern, but aristocracy-sounding voice. Yes. Okay. The Raven Teleplay by Brian Fuller. First episode that I know of that Brian has got his name on. Yes. But not only Teleplay, he is half-credit.

Story by Brian Fuller and Harry, Harry Doc. So Harry.Cloran, Brian, share the story credit. But yes, this is the first teleplay by Brian. And I liked it. I think he did a great job with this script. I mean, Brian, when he came on to our show as a writer, I remember he was one of the first people that I was aware of being a fan. He was crystal clear about, I am a fan of this franchise.

I love this franchise. I love the genre of science fiction and comic book heroes and horror movies and all of it. He was just a bit, he felt like a fan getting his first story editor job and was thrilled. And he flew his geek flag high in the air for everyone to see. And it was just, you walk into his office and in his office he had all these figurines from different fandums that he, a lot of it looked like a comic. bookstore. Yeah, it's a little like, exactly. I felt like you were walking into a comic book store because he had the action figures, the figurines, the collectibles, the, the, the, all of it. Comic books around. Yeah. He was a, he flew his, his geek flag high. Yeah, which is,

which is cool because I thought it was super cool. You know, I mean, this, he's more into it, I think, right? It's not just a job for him. Yeah. He's passionate. He's passionate about science fiction. He's passionate about Star Trek. Yeah. So that was what's great about Brian. And Lavar Burton came back and directed again. That's right. Yes. What was LeVar's first episode that he directed? I can't remember now. I don't know. I thought this was his first episode. No, I don't think so. It was something else then. Yeah. I'm trying. He directed ex post facto in season one. Oh, hello. Okay. So that would have been his first one then. So this is his second, second, his sophomore effort. Right. Okay. Or maybe even. Maybe his third. I feel like he's done more. I feel like he did eight or ten episodes. do feel that too. He did a lot of episodes. I do remember when LeVar would direct, he had a golf cart on the lot. Maybe he had an office. I think he kept an office on the Vermont lot after next gen went down. He had his own golf cart. And he had a golf cart on the lot. And I remember him coming over in his golf cart and he would smoke cigars outside. Yes, that's right. Do you remember that? I remember

the cigar smoking. And he's sitting in the golf cart. He's sitting in the golf cart. He's sitting in the golf car. Smoking cigars. Smoking the cigars between shots. He was very sophisticated. A very, honestly, I always thought he had style. He had sophistication. He was like the epitome of that Hollywood lifestyle that I was just like, oh, my God, look at LeVar. Maybe he had a say in casting Mickey Cottrell and his sophisticated delivery.

Maybe he did. Maybe he did. Yeah. Yeah. Let's do our poetry synopsis. poetry synopsis okay absolutely absolutely my haiku synopsis for the raven is as follows seven has flashback wants to rejoin collective she faces her past oh that is much better than the netflix synopsis yeah that you know what's happening netflix should replace their synopsis of

Voyager goes through an unknown part of space and they don't want them there. Xenophobic aliens. Yeah, no. That is the worst Netflix synopsis I think I've ever heard us read. It was zero.

It was substandard. All right, here we go with our limerick synopsis of the Raven. Neelix teaches seven how to chew. Thank God he didn't feed her Leola root stew drawn into space

by a Borg signal broadcast seven discovers a buried memory from her past but at least she got to play with a big

phaser rifle pew pew you and Rebecca are great you're so good I just want to say that that made me laugh so hard puke

well the poup was something I used in a prior oh that's right poetry thing So I think it was in the subconscious of either you or Rebecca. I don't know. And then the other thing, which I was going to laugh so hard,

you rhymed it with Leola Roots, Leola Roots, too. But I thought it was going to be some version of poo. And so that's why I was starting to laugh. Starting to laugh to giggle, because poop is funny. Pooh is funny. Stu's not so funny. Stu's not funny. No, no.

Can I hear one more reading of that place? I just want to hear it. Neelix teaches seven, how to chew. thank god he didn't feed her leola roots do drawn into space by a borg signal broadcast seven discovers a buried memory from her past but at least she got to play with a big phaser rifle pew pew this is like sci-fi dr suce yeah in a way i love yes it is it is thank you so much for that yeah okay good job thank you let's just jump right into this uh this so janeway we always open with Janeway and Seven in Da Vinci's, you know, workshop.

Workshop, that's right. I love that set. I wish we had done, just like everybody knows, I would love to do more Captain Proton. I wish we'd done a ton more because I thought it was great for our show. I wish we had done more Da Vinci's, honestly. Like, yeah, I thought it was really cool. Janeway's trying to teach seven about just relaxation and creativity.

Yes. Opening up her imagination, yeah, like being here. human means that you kind of get in touch with your feelings and you and you detach from tasks i think they talk about like you know uh seven said something like well uh when i was borg i was assigned a task and when that task was complete i was assigned a new task and i just moved on i did things that were efficient and jane we said something like well it helps my efficiency to relax sometimes seven and i thought that was great great wisdom I thought watching this that Kate Mulgrew really believed in these ideas.

Like Kate was very, when she's talking about creativity, because that's Kate's wheelhouse, like as a human being, it gets into, you can't have a lightweight conversation with Kate Mulgrew. Correct. Yeah. So this was right in line with her deepness whenever you deal with Kate off camera. So on camera, Janeway, getting deep about life is so right. art and being creative that's her that's her jam that is totally her damn and i felt like as i watched it i was like oh this is kate like she's connecting with this material yeah i think she probably really enjoyed filming this scene you know i think so too um it was very funny with seven touching

the the clay and it was just like pushed it up pushed it down pushed it down pushed it up sideways a bit yeah it was very funny oh funny and i just love in throughout this whole episode seven's answer to everything is that's inefficient that's irrelevant that's what are you know everything is inefficient irrelevant doesn't matter it's it's almost like a teenager you know what i'm saying like i don't care about this i'm bored you know kind of a deal i also notice i made note that jerry ryan's voice is so soft in this opening scene it's very soft it's very delicate. It's not very, you know, commandeering, I guess, or out there. It's the tender voice. I will say that, and look, I'm going to jump all over my performance. So I'm going to be a little

critical of this episode. Okay. Because we film scenes out of order, sometimes for actors, it's really hard to track, like, emotionally where you're at. And actors really rely on the director, or if there's a writer on set, to remind you of that. these things, even though it is our homework and our responsibilities actors, it's really helpful to be reminded of that. And I felt like on this one, there was a lot of, like, things weren't tracking to me. Like, the point you're bringing out is like, she was already very kind of vulnerable in a way that I think that character got to later on with the scenes with Tuvok and all of that late in the story. But I felt like we were already sort of playing the story. Okay. Here, and

way. Okay. So it was premature. It was premature vulnerability. I think it was what you're saying. Okay. I, I, my note wasn't a criticism. My note was that I liked it where it was. I felt like she was learning. She was sort of the daughter role and Janeway's the mom role. And so she kind of fell into that. And I just, I actually was making a compliment about the way that it was her voice was more tender and soft. I think Jerry had some great highs and lows as an actress in the episode. She did some wonderful work, but I felt like that it was partially, I felt like the scenes, it felt a little, not a smooth, linear journey. It felt like it was sort of back and forth from vulnerability to strength to, it's hard to track. Yes, but I can see the merit of what you just brought up, because if she started this opening scene with more strength and less vulnerability, then there would be a place for her character to go in this episode, right?

where to the points in the later, later parts of this episode when she's dealing with Tuvok where clearly she has to show that vulnerability. So yeah, okay, that's a valid point. It's totally valid. I accept it. And Seven looks up and she's looking around DaVinci's workshop. She sees some wings and Janeway says,

oh, yes, he was, you know, hundreds of years ahead of the invention of flight. Yes. You know, the discovery of how to fly. He was way ahead of it. And she looks at this thing. And then she goes into this flashback of Borg and something happening with Borg. But what struck me most about it was it was all in slow motion. And we never did slow motion on Star Trek.

That was, in fact, the fans would know this probably better than me. But I feel like you could probably count on one hand the amount of times we went into slow motion on this show. It was very rare. And so to go into slow motion here was, I actually think I had done some slow motion on in sacred ground when Janeway was having her vision quest and sort of fainting and thing. We did some slow motion. But I remember when it came up, that first episode I directed and I pitched that idea of slow motion, it was very, it was, it was, they were very uncomfortable with doing stylized things like that. So I was, I thought it was really interesting to see LeVar doing slow motion in these flashbacks, probably because they had to capture the bird flying, you know, through the hallway and stuff.

And if you didn't do slow motion, that would be so quick, fly by like that. Yeah. Yeah. So they may have said, well, since we're going to do the bird slow mo, we'd, let's do all of it. I don't know, maybe. Why do you think they were so afraid of stylized choices, such a slow-mo? I think it came from Gene Roddenberry. i think jean um had a very traditional kind of sense of the original series and next gen and i think rick berman may have um adopted those tastes and um i think you know rick said to me once

he said the show is already so heightened we've got rubber on actors faces and spaces and spaces and alien stuff he said we have to ground everything or or else if we start adding stylized things to the world, it starts feeling ridiculous. It starts actually making it seem less real. So the more simple and kind of conservative and straightforward, the filming is he felt the more real it would seem. So they didn't do much stylized stuff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Makes sense. I do remember when the bird was on set, though. I don't think I was there, but I remember hearing the crew talking about it. They were all really excited. Like, oh, yeah, we had a bird flying through the hall and shoot this shot of a bird and it wasn't the bird flying by the way

wasn't a raven it was uh it was like a falcon or a hawk or something it might have been black that wasn't a raven flying down the hall that was i didn't i didn't i just knew it was black feathers so it was a black bird but i think it was a falcon or a hawk or something anyway okay but it was a bird it had feathers not a raven who would how can we get to the bottom of this how can we well she never she actually never says that it was a raven in the dream she just says there's a bird no she says a black bird with yellow eyes which is a which is a raven is what she's referring to okay because the Janeway makes that Janeway is like well what could it be to be a crow it could be a she goes it could be a crow maybe it was a raven and then she goes oh

We're jumping ahead, but yeah, later on when... Yeah, but she settles on Raven, though. Janeway says it settles on Ray. Janeway does. Yeah, maybe it doesn't because she doesn't know what it is. Yeah. So, but you think it was definitely the bird used was not a raven, but some other... I am going to bet the money that it was not a raven.

Would you bet a large sum of money? I would, actually. I got triple, maybe four digits. I wouldn't go six figures on that. You'd go $1,000 other than the fact that it's a raven? That's not a raven? me that's good that's that's pretty yeah what am i going to get for my thousand bucks i because i'm going to win this one because it was not a raven that was not a raven no way

all right all right let's go to that we go to uh sick bay yeah and seven's talking to the doctor yeah her hair was a little must up which i found to be interesting because usually her hair was perfect and i wonder if they pulled a couple pieces loose just to sit to sell the idea that like like, oh, seven's kind of having a tough time. I think so. We'll pull a hair out of place. It's like that's their way of going, oh, my God, she's having a dramatic moment. Her hair's not perfect.

We're going to pull out a strand from region 473 and then we'll pull a clump out from here to make it look like she's discombobulated. Right. Okay. The doctor does say in the scene, though, he goes, it could be something about some sort of PTSD. That's Janeway. Danway brings that up, the PTSD. Oh, she does?

Yeah, she does. She says it's like a long-term PTSD. And Seven says here, you know, I don't think it's PTSD because I didn't experience any trauma. I wasn't, I didn't find it threatening when I was assimilated. Yeah, and the key word, the key phrase is Seven says she was raised by the work. They raised me, so I don't see them as threatening. Yeah. And so why would I experience fear is what she says.

Yep. The doctor then sends her to Neelix saying, these are the things that you need. to sustain your physical body, and the doctor is a little snooty about the fact that he doesn't need any nutrients like that. Oh, yeah. Did you see Kate's reaction, Janeway's reaction when they were talking about digesting food orally or something? What was it?

She sort of rolled her eyes and looked down with the two of them are talking and she's like, oh, the hologram and the board and the board talking about how they don't need human food. It was a funny reaction. I love it. I love it. Yeah, the doctor literally says, I hesitate talking about Nelix's cooking. Yeah. I hesitate to inflict his cooking on you, but it will have to do.

Poor Nelix. Poor Nelix. They're always piling on top of Nelix. I also wrote down that this episode is filled with, let's pair up each series regular with seven, you know, and give them their due. See them and here's the doctor scene right now, the prior episodes we've seen. Harry, obviously, with Seven. And then now Neelix, and it's a wonderful. Oh, and before we jump into that, the next scene, which is not the mess hall. I'm confused here. I just want to mention Janeway is extremely touchy with Seven in this scene that, in the sick bay, where she says, like, you know,

I assure you that I will help you get through this. And I just see a lot of physicality there from Janeway with Seven, which I didn't remember. So that was kind of a new, a new, a new a new thing for me. Then we jump to the briefing room. This is when we meet the Beaumar, the football, the football helmet or the baseball catchers mask people. And they have granted passage through their territory. Yeah. And they go up and they use our computers, by the way. Yeah. They start pushing buttons like they know how they own the place. Like they own the place. What do you do? They pull up. So they've not only know how to push the buttons in this scene, but they've programmed in a route.

Like, when did they do that? How did they do that? How did they know how to pull it? If they emailed it to us, how did they know the password to our computer? It just made, it was very. No, what is it, what is the thing that you drop for AirDrop photos, right?

Yeah, did they air drop this? The schematic, yes, to our ship computer. It was just confusing. It was, it was. So we, next we go to the mess hall and seven, goes up to Neelix and hands him a pad that has the dietary orders from the doctor on it. And I got to say the pads, when we had these pads, they just had like numbers and gibberish and

some letters and stuff. And in this shot, you see Neelix reading out the list and you see the pad in front of him. And I was like, that's not what that says. Like we can see the pad. Right. It was a little out of focus, but it clearly was not what Neelix was saying. was written on the pad and we were we didn't make that mistake like a detective on this episode you're catching all these little things yeah that's really i don't think that they made like stickers to go on the pad and by the way these pads were you ever do that robbie did you ever write lines and put it yeah on the pad ever i don't think on the pad i did on the console but not on a pad i don't think i ever did right okay did you yeah

why not of course come on you got it you got to do you got to do what you got to do sometimes you need that assistance there um yeah i don't think it was it did not match anyway okay neelix is like you know he wants to make this a delicious meal yeah and you know for something that she how would she like it cook this yeah protein or whatever all the things he says and she says well pleasure is irrelevant and then she says something like you're talaxian right species 218 and it's a little threatening yeah it's just it it is so off-putting that she sits there and looks at you knows what species you are list your designation in the board archive and then tells you your merits of your species right yeah their dense musculature made them excellent drones and i just love neelix's

johnny phillips reaction to they all he goes oh i i didn't realize that i mean he just he's so funny in this scene too how he reacts to this i love it very funny and then he goes and gives her a seat he cooked he fries up some some protein or whatever the doc teams up yes he seems it up and uh he he sets the food down on the table and pulls the chair back and he gives her a seat facing the wall like if you're going to give this you're going to present this thing why don't you face her out to the stars like she was just facing the inside of the mess hall oh there's this beautiful view behind her why didn't he go oh sit here and here's a yeah a view of of space and the stars. Instead, it's like, come over here and put your back to the window

where you're going to be looking at a wall, basically. Right. I don't know. That was a little detail. I just thought, if you're treating someone to a special night out, you're going to give them the good view. Give them the view, come on. But he did give her the royal treatment in teaching her how to eat and using things like, just like a scout ship flying into a shuttle bay. I wrote down the same comments yes i love that right um i love teaching like and then he says okay put it in your mouth keep your lips closed pull the fork out he's to walking through everything and now swallow and she's like what and he goes you know he like did an imitation of swallowing that was hilarious he did and then her comment curious sensation i mean just i just love the the dialogue here

written by brian fuller she does have a flashback there yes she does of a screaming Borg man and she's clearly, you know, unnerved by it. And she stands up and implant. Don't forget, that weird implant comes out of her hand. Oh, yes, of course. That happens there. Which Neelick sees and starts going, uh-oh. Uh-oh. Then she stands up and she shoves him backwards in his chair and he goes crashing to the ground. Now, that was a stunt double. I actually freeze framed it because he turned his head away from the camera on the floor and that's if you know for everybody out there anytime you see a character you know falling or something like that and their head is like turned away from camera turning away like choosing to turn it away it's because it's a stunt double and they

don't want to see the face you could tell that guy was so much the it was his physique was so different from john Ethan Phillips it was a joke i thought it was the same to laxian from episode faces that kind tells you about like oh my god i've been here forever that guy rob whatever lives in vancouver yeah i thought it was him look kind of like him uh it was a stunt double and then the other thing i noticed is so seven gets aggressive and physical and shoves over neelix hard yeah and like 15 extras crew members jump up and all rush to neelix's aid first of all it's a little overkill i don't think 15 people need to run over for somebody that just fell in a chair But they all rush over. Nobody goes to stop seven.

No. They just like attack somebody. Nobody were, they all are just like, it was a little silly. No, you're right. That was kind of funny. They're like, oh my God. Maybe they were going over and saying, gosh, why did you not look like Neelix when you're on the floor? Yeah, you don't look like Johnny Phillips.

Yeah, you're not John Phillips. Who are you? Who are you? That's why it's 15. That's why it was all of them. See? Got it. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So we go to a commercial, I think, at this point. And then we come back. It's the montage. Montage of scenes is what we're right. The very first shot, though, is out in space. And we see our ship flying. And it's kind of a flyby with the alien shuttles. I'm just going to say, that was a cool shot. It was a cool shot. Yep. I thought it was very cool. No, and the rendering of those alien ships were great. They looked cool, you know, they weren't dopey looking. No, they had some green. They had some green. They had some greeny lights on them. Yeah, a little glow stick action going on.

So I enjoyed those ships. Yeah, I thought those were. I thought, again, in the Viz effects department, it was a bit like some of the story or performance or whatever. I felt like it was a little inconsistent because that VizEFX moment was awesome. Yeah. But then later on, there's some that I'm like. like the planet establishing. I was like, oh.

Oh, you mean the mooner, the lunar planet? The lunar surface when it showed those, the, the, yeah, I was like, the wide shot or the far away shot of, okay. Yeah. What did you not like about that? Hmm. Do you have no explanation to your, hmm? You know, I mean, look, and like I said, I'm going to talk about my performance eventually.

So we'll get ready for some negativity. Okay, all right. But, no, it was just, it looked like a kind of a painting. It looked sort of two-dimensional. It looked at the colors. I don't know. I mean, there was some smoke movement, but it just, it didn't, I didn't buy it. I didn't buy that planet.

You're picky today. I'm a detective. You're detective. Detective picky is your name. Okay. All right. So the montage of scenes, starting with the exterior, which you like that shot. Then you also see the bridge.

You see deck six in the corridor, turbo lift, deck 10, the shuttle interior, seven now has Borg shields. She's heading to the armory to grab a phaser rifle. She basically fires upon and hopefully stunts people, right? She doesn't kill anyone. So she stuns the question. Yeah, she's doing all this. She's like a superhero in this moment. She's like invincible. No phaser can possibly stop her. No force field can stop her. That's why she's walking. Is that the same? Like if there were a full board. like she's only getting a little bit of her nanopropes coming back to like just a little bit right yeah yeah i've never seen a full board 100% drone do what she just did what do and

we take out drones all the time no we don't they have shields too yeah but we set our phasers and we modulate and we do stuff and then like i'm just saying we modulate we did stuff okay you're saying she's too superborg she was two superhero i just don't buy it. I don't buy it. That's fine. Like she was so casually walking and blowing past everything. Okay. That's totally fine. And there were tons of low angles on her. And I was like, wow, we are trying to make her into a superhero. But I just don't think the rules are quite work that way. That's not how Borgs work. I just, I don't know. All right. Can I just throw one other thing in there that we have not talked about? Yeah. We haven't talked about the new suit she has on. We haven't talked about it. It's like the rust brown suit. It's the brown one. And I, and it's, I don't know if there's another brown one that comes later,

because this one had a, in different lights, it had a different look to it. Yeah, kind of like gray or brown or, mm-hmm, but I don't like the brown suit. I prefer the silver suit personally. And I remember when she showed up on set with a brown suit and I made fun of it with Jerry. I was like, oh. Did they make, make, nice. Did they explain that at all? No, there's no explanation to that.

But I, and I, and I would joke with her. I was like, hey, wow, they give you, what color is that? Duky is what I said. And so from then that point forward, every time she had the brown suit on, I go, oh, it's the Duky suit today is what I would say. Yeah, it was a weird color. It was a very strange color. So she's a superhero.

She steals the shuttle. Another rule breaker, by the way. The shuttle all of a sudden comes crashing through, bending the metal of the cargo bay door, right? We know how shuttles work. If you crash them into a ship, shuttles explode. Like, we see shuttles blow up and ships hit each other in space in ship battles and other shows all the time.

They don't burst through the doors and bend the metal. You're right. It doesn't work that way. No, you're right. But what you failed to see, and this was the footage that ended up on the cutting room field, I see, was her, because she's a superhero, She was able to, out of her nostrils, she shot this freeze spray, like a liquid nitrogen, which froze the entire shuttle bay door so that it became very, yes, it became very brittle.

And she was able to just, you know, knock through it like it was, you know, glass, like plate glass. It was easy. That's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like there was a lot of stuff in this that changed the rules of the game in terms of what Borg do, what nanoprobes do, what shuttles do. And I'm fine with that. it's a sci-fi show you can change the rules you can do whatever you want you just got to talk you got to explain it somehow somebody's got to say if even if even if someone on the bridge had said borg can't do that what's going on board don't normally there must be a way to recalibrate our

phasers or something like this is unusual but nobody seemed to acknowledge it it was just like oh yeah she's doing this thing that we we all are are used to borg doing no she's doing things that Borg don't normally do. And shuttles don't normally do. But anyway, I get it. We have to tell the story. We have to get her out of the ship. I just didn't, I didn't buy it. I didn't buy it. I had a, this one was a struggle for me. I got to be honest. And I'm interesting. I'm not pointing fingers at any one element that failed. As I've said a number of times, we'll talk about Tom Paris. And I will tell you my thoughts and feelings. Yes. And I bet you, you will be overly critical of your performance and I'm going to rein you back. I'll pull you back.

But there was some wonderful moments. It was just a very inconsistent episode to me. Okay. Moments that I love and moments that I just thought I threw up in my mouth a little. Oh my gosh. You just went there. Okay. Let's go to Janeway's ready room. Janeway is now with the Beaumar. Yes. And I love that line from the one Bo Mar guy. then you proceed to unleash some sort of rogue borg which is very funny to hear

but the Beaumar are not helpful not in the least well they literally say to Janeway he says I question your competence captain yeah yeah oh my God and they also say we will find you rogue borg and we will destroy your rogue borg

so he's already thrown it out there he's going to kill that's what they're going to do yeah yeah not good then we go we go to engineering and we see this beautiful crane shot. Now here's something I loved. I love this moment of the crane crane shot coming down and you see everybody hustling around trying to figure out what's going on. There's Harry and Bala are in there and they're looking at for any evidence of what, you know, happened to seven. Yes, we're not in engineering though. Where are we? We're in cargo. We're in the

cargo bay. Oh, sorry. Her seven's regeneration. That's what I meant. I said, if I said engineering, I meant cargo. I meant it because it was a beautiful shot. I knew you meant it. Continue. And by the way, that crane shot at the top, I think Voyager was just about the last place. I remember a TV show film set using what was, I want to say, the Fisher crane, the Zeus crane. It was a crane where you strapped the camera operator into a seat.

the assistant was strapped into a seat as well. The big film camera was set on top of this crane and the two people were lifted up in the air along with the camera to operate the shot. I haven't seen one of those in 25 years. I mean, it's... So the 90s or the last era, a decade that they were used in. That I remember that kind of crane, but we had one sitting on the stage. It was either a Paramount crane or owned by somebody, maybe I,

grip department or key grip or someone because that crane would sit on the stage a lot and but we didn't use it super often because it was a big it was a big time consuming thing to strap the operators in and balance it and get the camera on and you couldn't just once the operators were on there and things were balanced you couldn't just like if if a camera operator had to pee uh you couldn't just say hey lower it and let him step off and go pee because it was it had the weights in it if he stepped off and all of a sudden, it changes everything. Boom,

that thing would shoot up in the air. So they had to lower it down, get the weight balance, get the thing locked, and then he gets unstrapped and stuff off. It was a time-consuming tool to use. Yeah. But I remember,

I think it was called a Zeus crane or a Fisher Crane, Fisher-Zus, I can't remember. Gotcha. Yeah, that was the crane probably they used. And this is Bologna's first scene

in the whole episode. It is. And her first scene is to tease Harry over seven right yes which i love that story i know you like that i do i think that's a cute story i also like that harry's like oh i've been studying this uh borg language i think i could translate these uh these uh this data link that look at that harry has language lessons just that's what i'm about to say that was that what you're going to say yeah i jumped the gun we should do the borg language lesson as part of our patreon bonus since we do other languages

We should include Borg, maybe some Klingon, some Vulcan. We should start including Romulan, all the Trek languages we're going to start doing as part of our language. That's a great idea. So after, well, my plan was this. After Chinese, I was going to jump to German. And so now after German, I can now jump to either Klingon or just split it up. One week, it's Klingon. Next week it's Vulcan, right?

I think this is important that our Patreon fans who get all of this amazing. Bonus material, start to learn some track languages. Okay. Not just Russian and what have we learned? Not just earth languages. Out earth languages. Yeah, Mandarin, Chinese, Russian, and then we're going to learn German. So you're so correct.

This is a podcast about a show about Star Trek. And so why not learn the language of other Star Trek species? Just so you guys know, that's in your future. It's coming up. Patreon patrons. That's right. So Chukote shows up. Janeway's in the, in the, in the, um, the, um, the, um, the, um, the which I'm

call it. The cargo bay. Yeah. Not the engineering bay. No, the cargo bay. Engineering bay. Then they, then they, Michael Bay either. And not Michael Bay either. Um, yes, I don't have any more Bay Joe. Yeah. You were, I was going to go Hudson's Bay, the department store in Canada. I was going to go with all the, all the bay thing. I was waiting for you to come up with another bay. Okay. The, the, they start walking to a turbo. lift and they get in this turbo lift and they're in there for a long time and all of a sudden i started thinking i live on the 26th floor of my apartment building in vancouver yes and my elevator is faster than that turbo that turbo lift so really it's not a turbo lift it's a slow lift it's a slow

freaking lift it's just however long the scene is written is how long it takes yeah they were in that for a long time they were trying to figure out and jenway and she's like there's got to be a puzzle piece that i'm missing which is you know because we yeah we know it's great for janeway to say it because we know that's what's something else is going on here but we haven't quite figured it out we go off to sick sick bay they walk into sick bay and the doctor says that she has a high concentration of borg organelles in the bone marrow and lymphatic nodes yeah organelles that sounds like something you put on a salad like it sounds like a fancy Yes, and we're cooking.

We have for tonight a salad special with organic lettuce and the organelles. It sounds like. Or it also sounds like some doo-wop group from the 50s. And now on stage, the organelles, right? So I felt that too. Organels. I just never heard that word, but she's got them. Seven's got some organelles.

By the way, can I just jump. I know we're now in the sick-faced scene. Can I just jump back to back to the car? Bargo Bay when Balana finds that Borg data link, which has the log entries. So my whole thought was she grabs it, then she hands it to me, and then I'm touching it, and then I hand it to Janeway. And now that we live in the pandemic years, all I can think about is, no, there's so many germs on that thing.

Oh, my God, there's no sanitization. There's no sanitization going on. Nobody is sanitizing. And I just kept, I was cringing. And this is something that I would not do if COVID didn't, if, if, if it never happened, but I'm definitely doing this now. So did you also notice that when we were doing that? No, but I think about that sometimes as I watch our show because, you know,

we're 25 years away from a pandemic. We did, you know, there's no thought to. No, not at all. Although in the future, things are cleansed constant. Like there's probably, you know, air scrubbers and all kinds of things happening scientifically. Of course. That, I mean, there's filters on the transporter. already, right? So when you transport something, there are filters that keep out any type of

pathogens or anything, anything that's invasive, right, for the most part. So we don't even have to think about that. But now in 2020 and 21, we definitely have to think about that. So these dormant nanoprobes have reasserted themselves in Seven of Nine's body. Orgonells. The organelles, yes. And the doctor has fabricated a solution that will neutralize the nanoprobes with the genetic resequencing vector, according to the doctor. But someone's got to be close enough to apply this through a hypolspray, right? So that's the plan. That's the plan. That's a fix. Right. So Tuvok is the spearhead of this plan. But Paris is also part of this because we're on the bridge and Tuvac and Paris come up with a way to get past the perimeter sensors. And Janeway

gives the authorization to stop seven with any means necessary if number one, the resequencer fails. And number two, Tuvac and Paris are unable to reason with seven. So didn't this kind of make you feel like, whoa, that's pretty hardcore. She basically gives the kill order to Tuvok. Like, you're going to take her out, which I thought was kind of harsh. And I wrote that down. I didn't remember that. I don't remember that.

It's cold. It's cold blooded. Now, this is the beginning of my hatred of Tom Paris's performance. Oh, boy. Here it comes. Because I'm like, I had the same feeling. I'm like, this is a scene loaded with some real stakes and some real kind of darkness. And I felt like I was just playing this like generic hero in space who has lots of information.

And I don't know what I was playing, but I don't know if I just didn't break this down from like, what is really going on, not just about me. I felt like it was a little bit about my line, my line, my line, disconnected from story. And this was the beginning of all of it. Like I felt that way in the shuttle. I felt that way. I just felt like, wow, I don't know where I was in this story because I don't feel connected to it. I felt like it's generic sort of, hey, here's some information, Captain. I will regurgitate my lines and say these words, but I don't know.

Yeah. Well, this is my, I'm going to play Detective Picky now. I'm going to say, first of all, number one, you have typically, on the bridge, typically you're saying, yes, ma'am, and you're saying, you know, small little quick snippets, right? And all of a sudden you have a monologue at Tuvok station. That's not normal for you, number one. So that's a new thing that you're dealing with. And secondly, God knows what you could have been dealing with in terms of at-home issues, dealing something happened with your kid or whatever. I had a big, I had a very full kind of home life going on. But so did other people.

I mean, Kate had a very full home life. It can creep into your work on set where you're not connected. It's definitely possible. Although, again, I'm going to play devil's advocate. I didn't sit there watching that scene and it wasn't a glaring thing where I didn't think, oh my God, he's not connected. So I think it was just generic. It was, it was, it's, I don't think it harms the episode. No, it didn't harm the episode at all. I know that you could have juzed it up. for sure i felt like it was just disconnected from a real true human experience and it was all very very uh generic like i said just generic hero talk that was not real and in hardly anyway and right or no it just felt felt like i was disconnected from the my scene

partners from the other actors like not really kind of riding that wave with them of what's going on in the scene and the story i was just sort of i don't know it was it was the stiff sci-fi talk you know anyway hated it hated it yeah no no okay um but yes paris is paris's plan is you know let's take a shuttle it'll have a smaller warp signature we won't be detected by these bomar peoples and uh yeah and janeway says you can kill her so we cut out to seven shuttle now seven uh is not the pilot the fancy pilot of voyager but yet she seems to do the best flying we've seen in four and a half years by like weaving in and out of seven different BOMAR you know attack vessels you wrote weaving in and out just let her drive the ship like

she's pretty good but she wasn't weaving in and out my my note was seven you know the BOMAR well first of all the funny thing was the BOMAR guy talking to seven right his message was Borg drone you have and this was the Shakespearean southern guy you have committed it and infraction against the Beaumar sovereignty cut power to your engines and lower your shields prepare to be boarded and the seven responds by acting like an NFL running back blasting through the entire defense she's banging into all the shuttle she wasn't avoided anything she was like i'm just gonna hit every single one well she she crashed through our shuttle bay door which we've already discussed is not how shuttles work so why not just bang them out of the way why not bumper car them

She was bump-a-carring everybody. It was really kind of funny that she just didn't care. She mowed them all down. Oh, my goodness. Paris tells Tuvok. Tuvok's going to beam over to seven shuttle. And Paris is like, this is too dangerous. This is another scene where I like turn around in my shuttle.

I'm like kind of leaning back. I'm like, Tuvok, buddy. Come on. Let's talk. Just a couple of guys talking, right, Tuvok? I was like, why am I playing? We're in the middle of a chase scene. And I'm like, why didn't somebody tell me that I was not playing this right?

I rely on directors and writers to remind me. Even when I'm directing, I rely on writers and people. Oh, my God. This one was just... Are you going to blame this on LeVar? I don't know. I'm blaming it all on me. Okay.

I did not do my work. I wish someone had backed me up here. her to say. So you were way too casual in the way to shuttle. Okay, I got you. But Tuvok does beam over and coincidentally when he beams over, seven has moved from the driver's seat of her fancy fast sports car.

Yeah. He's standing in the back of the of the shuttle in exactly the right place she needs to be to knock him out. How convenient is that? I don't know. Oh my goodness. This is just so funny. I love this scene. And then she disables Paris's shuttle.

So she's like superhero. She can mind read where Tuvok is going to beam into and know, be ahead of it. Well, it's funny because when the fight ensues inside the back of Seven shuttle, they do this little weird dance thing, right? And then Tufoc is trying to voc and nerve pinch seven. And she blocks him. And then she does some cool, I don't know, crazy wing chun comes to move. It was a nice little fight back there. Yeah, a little nice fight.

And then she ends up just taking him out with exactly the same move he was going to put on her. She Vulcan nerve pinches the Vulcan. So that's the ultimate slap in the face. Right. So I'm going to disable you with your own weapon, which his weapon is the Vulcan nerve pinch. And she has assimilated Vulcans. She even says later on Vulcan species three, two, five, nine. She knows, you know, she's got them all catalog.

She knows it all. and she takes out your paris your shuttle she takes out your shuttle's propulsion systems and it was so quick and you were disabled she's good i don't know why we need anybody else on voyager at this point she has shown in one episode that are you seven of not i'm just saying can we all go to the holodeck and allow seven to be on the bridge yeah you could just have a vacation fly the ship she can be the weapons of tactical all of yes yes she's like a one man I don't need any question. Army. She's a superhero.

She's a superhero. Yes. Oh, so inside the shuttle, Seven has erected a force field to keep Tuvok at bay. And then Tuvok starts quizzing seven. Like, why are you doing this? Yeah. By the way, here's another inconsistency. Yes, Detective Picky.

This is where I'm Detective Picky this time. Yes. So our camera team would occasionally use filters on the camera. They would use. Correct. depending on what the look is. Sometimes often for any performer that we wanted to appear more attractive

or they would use a glamour filter, a softer filter. Marvin Rush was always very thoughtful of, in particular, the ladies on the show. So that he would light them with a little more attention. He would often use a glamour filter to give them a little more glamour or beauty, the perception.

of softness and beauty. Yes. Anyway, so all that said to say, all of a sudden, in the middle of the story, I see like the glamour filter 5,000 come out in this scene for seven of nine. And I'm like, wait a minute, we haven't used that look on her in any of the previous scene. Like, I could see if every time we cut to seven, she's got this sort of glamour look. But I feel like it was, again, a lack of continuity.

or consistency that for whatever reason they decided in this shuttle scene with Tuvok we're going to whip out the old Hollywood glamour 1955 or whatever it was a very strong look that just didn't match anything else and I think whose call is that though is that Marvin or is that LeVar is LeVar doing that no that would be Marvin I think that would be Marvin that's a little that's a little weird and he's not usually the type to to have those inconsistent So I feel like if you're going to make a strong filter choice, then it's got to be in every time you photograph that actor. Okay.

You're saying it comes out in this scene. It's in only in this scene and every other scene was seven before this. You do not see the glamour filter. I do not think so. No, right. This one, this one, I'm going to have to rewatch this now. It was just a very different look on her.

Okay. And I think it's because she starts getting emotional in the scene. And I think they wanted some softness and vulnerability. And so, okay. It's just an idea that probably came in the moment. Hey, let's go in the soft filter, you know, the whatever it was called. But it just seemed all over the place for you. It just didn't seem like the same look.

Like, why all of a sudden does she look like kind of that beauty? I didn't see that. So I'm going to have to rewatch it now to see what you're saying because I didn't. Well, she's getting emotional. And she's talking about she's feeling apprehensive and fear and why should I feel afraid? Because I'm going to be back with the board. It doesn't make any sense.

Right. And she also decides not to assimilate too. Vok, right? So that's another soft vulnerable scene there. Yeah. And he says there are no Borg because we've learned from the BOMAR that they literally every speck of dust that crosses into their region. Yeah. It's tracked. Is tracked and they know about it. So Tuvok's pretty confident that what she's saying that there's a board vessel waiting for her. That's not what she's correct. He's he makes the gamble. He says, I don't think that's what it is. Let me come with you. But if they track everything, don't you think they would have tracked seven of nine's parents vessel you know i know i'm jumping

it's just like it's like why aren't you tracking that hello maybe that maybe they didn't back then yeah they only yeah that beacon would have been picked up by their perimeter grid i'm sure but maybe they didn't install that until you know 10 years ago right but it's got a beacon they would be picking up they would know that i know that's silly yeah there's a couple excavated that that would have been their archaeological division would have went down there. Yeah, I'm a little all over on this one. See, you've turned me into Detective Picky, too. I didn't want to be a detective picky.

Dang it. But there's such good moments, too. They really are. Okay, good, good. Janeway, so we go to Janeway. Oh, sorry, you forgot to say a Tuvok actually cues in on the back of the, in the back of the shuttle. He says, you know what?

Your behavior demonstrates affection and sentiment. These are traits of humanity, not the Borg. So something's going on that you're not aware of that has nothing to do with us about Borg beacons. So that was an important point to this episode for sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So the next thing we cut back to Cargo Bay, where the Borg Alcoves are. And there's Janeway standing.

Cool shot of Janeway standing in Seven's Regeneration Alcove, right? I like that shot. It was cool. Oh, no. What is it? Talk to me. I wish she was just kind of walking her. and pacing around and studying it

because she's just sort of standing there. Nothing's going to happen there. Like, is she, because she was standing there, like she wasn't locked into, she wasn't experiencing. No, she's not experienced a regeneration cycle. No, no. But she's trying to live.

She's just sort of standing there. I don't know. To me, I thought it was like goofy. I was like, what is she? It's goofy. Like, you're not going to get plugged into the board collective just by standing there. All right.

Here, let me do it. Let me, let me just giving you an example. Okay. What if you were lost? And Janeway's like, gosh, we've got to, we've got to put this puzzle together and she just sits in your helmsman's chair on the bridge and thinks. Well, I think that if that's kind of what scene you described. Yeah. If we just cut to her sitting in the chair, I think it still would be cheesy. If we cut to her sitting in her chair and seeing that she's going, hmm, I don't know what, what I don't have a solution and then she looks at my chair and she gets up and she slowly walks over to it and she thinks maybe maybe if I just sit down here and she sits in it for a moment that would be a different okay okay if we had seen her come in look at it study it and then stand in it and look

around okay we just cut to her standing standing there standing there yes and it was like that version to me is just like oh we come in the middle of her standing in the board thing thinking that she's going to plug in, and that's not how it works. So, yeah, that's my feelings there. Mr. Detective Picky. You are Detective Picky today. Harry has now deciphered Seven's log entries. So he enters into the scene, into the cargo bay, and hands it over to Janeway.

But not before he talks about how there's a lot of entries about himself. and he's a little embarrassed. And Seven seems to know his exact way. It's very predictable. He's so predictable and he's embarrassed. And this is where Janeway played that scene really well, by the way. Did you like that? Unlike Tom Paris, I think you had subtlety and you had, you know,

a kind of a connection to the story and it's a good sense of humor. I thought it was really good. Thank you. Thank you. All right. I appreciate that. But here's where the Raven thing comes into play, right? So she figures out that it's a.

raven. It gives Janeway the clue. And Harry's like, oh, how is that a clue? And she's, now I know how to find her. Now I know where to look or something. Yeah. She says something like in the journal, it says, you know, the bird paralyzes her that she's filled with fear every time she sees the bird. Jamie's like, well, what is that bird? Maybe it's, maybe that bird's a crow or a raven. Oh, was that your Janeway? Not really. It was just a dramatic whisper raven. It was almost a raven. It sounded Janeway-esque to me. It was very dramatic.

And yes, then she's like, now I know. What? How do you, what? What do you know? Thank God, by the way, Janeway didn't see the flashbacks that the audience sees because she would know it's not a raven. It's a hawk or a falcon. But sure, if she wants to imagine that it's a raven, I saw it.

Oh, my goodness. So now we're back in Seven Shuttle, and Tuvok then offers two. accompany seven to go to the lunar surface because the signal was coming from somewhere on the lunar surface and Tuvok thinks it's not the board because seven says well you're going to get assimilated if you come with me he's like I really think this is something else so I'm going to offer to help you two bucks says I will accompany you to the surface and we're on his back and then he continues you don't need to go alone the worst ADR line I've ever heard in my life go back and look at it it was like it was completely in the scene I will accompany you to the

surface. And then you hear, you don't need to go alone. It was horrible. It was like it didn't sound like it was in the same space. It was like, how did that get on the air? It was my God, your detective picky. I didn't, I didn't catch any of this. Go back and look at it. It's clearly looped and it's clearly added in. We don't need to go alone. You make it sound like it's underwater in it or something. I don't know. It's a different, it was recorded separately. And it was not mixed well it was okay yeah was it was it one of those add-in pieces of dialogue that wasn't even in the script i think it was not in the script and they wanted to play out the moment a little longer with seven on camera because you could see her sort of processing what tuvac was saying you're all

yes i will accompany you to the surface you don't need to go loud what that's not the same person in the same place it's bad it could sound like he's bane from the uh was that Batman world. Okay. Let's move forward. Paris, you're now in your shuttle and you're debriefing Janeway about what's happening. Picking up an unusual signal, an M-class moon orbiting the fifth planet from a yellow dwarf star. Correct. Yeah, that's what Paris is saying. Right. This is okay. This is not as bad as some of the other Paris stuff I felt like I was doing. I felt like at least here I was piloting and so I'm delivering information and I seem to have stakes. This was okay. You're more satisfied with this line to deliver.

A solid C. Yes. Oh, you give it a C. Still average. Okay. Oh, yeah. All right. So now we go to the I said, Bomarian moon surface.

Can I use Bumarian? Beautiful planet shot. Yes. And you hate that shot. You think it's so simplistic. You think it's two-two-dimensional. It looks like a painting to you, correct? I did not like the three-dimensional.

I did not like it. I felt like it was some recycled. elements of lone pine mixed with some steam rising up that didn't seem like it was in the same dimensions or perspective. I just didn't like that planet show. But we've had, like I said, it was a flyby that I think was some of the best ship shots I've ever seen with the show. Right. So there's some amazing shots and some shots that you question. I hear you. And then seven and two, and by the way, every time I type in seven on my little, you know, my, It, yes, it autocorrects to Sven, S-V-E-N, the Swedish male first name. So I get, right here, it says

Sven and Tuvok track the Borg signal. That's a different story. That's a whole different story. Tuvac, she is very nervous. She sees a partially assimilated Federation vessel. And she says, I think that looks familiar. Tuvok says it's Federation vessel. All of a sudden, she has a flashback. Papa, Papa, help me. So she calls her dad. dad, Papa, a lot, which I, that sort of jumped out at me here. A very sort of old-fashioned name. That's like Scandinavian way to call your dad, it sounds like to me. Yeah. Papa. Yeah. Or it sounds like something you might call a grandfather, but not your dad. That's, isn't that pop-pop? Pop-pop, maybe. I just wish, I wish that instead of Papa, that she had said, Daddy, or something

a little less formal, less old-fashioned, less dated. I don't know. Maybe. I'm just wondering. if they went off of like you know like east uh northern european right so scandinavian countries maybe her scandinavian yeah maybe her heritage maybe i just i it it didn't it didn't feel as vulnerable or emotional as the word daddy but is that's just to me okay um yeah papa help me she has a flashback um we realized that the raven was her ship in the sequence that comes out And she starts, Jerry Ryan starts a very vulnerable kind of realization and memories coming back to her. She remembers her birthday when she had, when she was six, six candles and one to grow on. Tells the whole story, very, very human moments here with Jerry and seven.

And she kind of reverts to a childlike state, right? She does. She goes literally climbs under the console like she does in her flashbacks. So she's sort of reliving some of this. her imagination, which is part of our theme. It's, you know, what Janeway has set up in the first episode, first scene. She's reliving it and really experiencing it through her imagination, these memories. I love when Tuvac, they start getting attacked by the Bomar.

Bomar have now come to this lunar surface and are attacking, trying to kill the board. They're trying to race outside so they can get a signal to beam back. And I thought some of the crashing and the pulling of debris, and things like that, I thought that was really some exciting and well-shot action, some good action moments. And then Voyager shows up. And so they start trying to target the weapon systems of the Beaumar ships. They only take out a couple of the ships. And I kept thinking, why didn't they just kind of like, you know, do what 7 of 9 did and just crash into them and just knock them out? Now that we know, that's how ships work. That's the way ships work in this episode. And this episode is quite all right. Everything works however you want it to work. I loved on the bridge.

the Beaumar guy saying, you need to get the heck out of here. And Jane Wade just goes, I don't have time for this. That's time for this. I know, it just snaps him out. Like, yeah. Such a great reading. So dismissive. Yeah, it was so good.

That was so clever. It made me laugh out. That guy got Jane Wade. That guy got Jane Wade. He did. Yeah, all right. Seven and Tuvok trying to find a way out. And they finally do find out a way out of the wrecked ship.

And that is when Paris beams them aboard his shuttle. And then my question was, well, what about the shuttle? shuttle that seven was in. You just, you guys are just going to leave that on the planet surface or in space where they floating around in space. Yep. Well, and that's a good, that's a good shuttle too. That's a crashing shuttle that breaks through giant cargo bay doors. That's a superhero shuttle. You're right. They should go get that one. They need that one because it clearly has some crazy titanium shielding or some extra borg shielding that it can just break through shuttle bay doors like nothing. well butter cutting through but we did get everybody back but we do realize that we're there's not

going to be a shortcut this time janeway says looks like there won't be any shortcuts and they've got to leave bomar space and take the long way yeah um then we go to the holodeck and janeway finds walks into da vinci's workshop yeah and finds seven in there and i i wrote down you know jerry played a beautiful scene here she seemed so childlike and vulnerable um seven talks about how she's considering what her parents were like she did now she realizes like there's a whole part of my life that i didn't now that i've experienced it through my imagination through these flashbacks through this right that it's opening up this desire to know who my parents were yeah and janeway says well um you know there's a lot about your parents in

database they did some amazing things and and maybe you can you know kind of look at into that. Yeah. And some of this may encourage her imagination even more to, to understand her where she came from. And it was such a great moment. I loved the way Jerry read it, the way it was written. She goes, perhaps I will. Yeah. Someday. And then a pause. It's a little too overwhelming now, but a someday, exactly. And then a pause someday, not now. Yeah. It was so well done Jerry's performance i thought was really wonderful and we're in this episode we see a vulnerable seven for the very first time and i think uh often that that works really really well and sometimes like i said some of the inconsistencies kind of bunk me but but and brian fuller's lines Brian fuller's

dialogue also yeah so yeah great great moments in there yeah what was your theme for this episode i'm going to ask you that because i didn't come up with anything so let me throw that back okay this was a tricky one as you can tell i was i was kind of mixed i was loved a lot of things and other things i thought just kept breaking me out of it um but the theme i i felt like was something like this feeling your feelings or creativity or your imagination these human experiences can feel amazing but they can also be painful and you can't have one without the other that's what i wrote to him. So this human experience that seven is finally starting to see through her flashbacks, her imagination, her feelings that she's not just intellectually thinking of it, but she's not going

from one task to the other, but she's pausing to feel her feelings. That has an upside and a downside and you can't have one without the other. You can't, you can't feel love without some pain. You can't feel the good without risking the bad, you know. That's good. I'm going to piggyback on that. And I'm going to say this is also on the same thing. And this is more of what Janeway was saying to her in the beginning, which was she said, okay, imagination, creativity, fantasy, human progress would not exist without these traits or

these exploration into this area of humanity, the imagination of the creativity of stuff. So, yeah, so those things are good, right? And that's the only way to have progress as humans. We need to have creativity and imagination in our lives to be a full, complete human being, right? That's part of us, too. I love it. That's the theme. Well, that was great.

So I'm glad. I'm so glad we got to watch this episode and realize that, by the way, I was not far off the Raven and the kind of the Edgar Allan Poe sort of structure of the loss of pain and it will never more be never more never more she will it's it's seven's realization that she will never have her parents truly the only way to have it is through some of this sort of imagination and memory but it's also going to have pain so yeah call man so you you were right on that one I was right that one of us was going to have more of a storyline in Paris, really. And as much as you thought that your line delivery wasn't where it should be,

it's definitely not something that was glaring. You know, I don't think anybody watching this is going to be like, what the hell was that? No one's going to say that. So you're very critical of yourself. So it is, and as you should be, because you can see everything, right? So, but you're also a little hard on yourself. So I would not give it a C, but I'd give it.

I give you a B minus. Okay. I'll take a B minus. I'll give you B minus. I was a solid B minus student in high school. And everybody, my teachers would all say, like, you could be an A plus. You could be a straight A student if you tried a little. And I was like, yeah.

But I like this and that and this and that. And I'm just, I'm a solid B. So you basically in high school, you ravened it is what you did. I did. I ravened. I ravened. You ravened high school. It's okay.

It's all right. See, we have new. dialogue now. All right. So next week, everybody, please join us when Robbie and I will be discussing the episode Scientific Method. So, you know, Thank you.