The Delta Flyers - The Ship

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

The Delta Flyers is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, Terry Farrell & Armin Shimerman. In each podcast release, they will recap and discuss an episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.This week’s episode, The Ship, is hosted by Garrett Wang, Robert Duncan McNeill, and Terry Farrell.The Ship: Upon finding a crashed Jem'Hadar warship, Sisko and a Vorta spar over control of the vessel and learn their mutual mistrust has mortal consequences.We would like to thank everyone who makes this podcast possible, starting with our Production Managers, Megan Elise and Rebecca McNeill.Additionally, we could not make this podcast available without our Executive Producers:Stephanie Baker, Jason M Okun, Luz R., Marie Burgoyne, Kris Hansen, Chris Knapp, Janet K Harlow, Rich Gross, Mary Jac Greer, Mike Gu, Tara Polen, Carrie Roberts, Sandra Stengel, AJC, Nicholaus Russell, Alex Mednis, Holly Schmitt, Roxane Ray, Tim Neumark, Ian Ramsey, Feroza Mehta, Jonathan Brooks, Matt Norris, Jenny Cordina, Izzy Jaffer, Andrew Cano, Francesca Garibaldi, Jonathan Capps, Chris Dellman, Chris Garis, Sean T, & Cindy WoodfordOur Co-Executive Producers:Liz Scott, Sarah A Gubbins, Utopia Science Fiction Magazine, Elaine Ferguson, Captain Jeremiah Brown, E & John, Deike Hoffmann, Anna Post, Cindy Ring, Lee Lisle, Holly Smith, Amy Tudor, Mark G Hamilton, KMB, Dominic Burgess, Normandy Madden, Joseph Michael Kuhlman, Darryl Cheng, Elizabeth Stanton, Tim Beach, Victor Ling, Shambhavi Kadam, David Wei Liu, Donna Runyon, Nicholas Albano, Andrew Duncan, Randy Hawke, Penny Liu, Stephanie Lee, David Smith, Stacy Davis, Heath K., Ryan Mahieu, Kevin Harlow, Megan Doyle, Jeff Allen, & Tamara Evans. And our Producers:Philipp Havrilla, James Amey, Jake Barrett, Sab Ewell, Ann Harding, Trip Lives, Samantha Weddle, Paul Johnston, Carole Patterson, Warren Stine, Carl Murphy, Jocelyn Pina, Chad Awkerman, AJ Provance, Maxine Soloway, Heidi McLellan, Brianna Kloss, Dat Cao, Stephen Riegner, Debra Defelice, Alexander Ray, Vikki Williams, Kelly Brown, Sarah Thompson, Gabriel Dominic Girgis, Renee Wiley, Maria Rosell, Michael Bucklin, Sarah, Dominique Weidle, Jesse Bailey, Mike Chow, Matt Edmonds, Miki T, Heather Selig, Steph Davies, Stephanie Aves, Seth Carlson, Amy Rambacher, Jessica B, Annie Davey, Jeremy Gaskin, Sarah Dunnevant, Charlie Faulkner, Estelle Keller, Eddie Dawson, Greg Kenzo Wickstrom, Lauren Rivers, Jennifer B, PJ Pick, Preston M, Rebecca Leary, SnazzyO, Karen Galleski, Jan Hanford, Katelynn Burmark, Timothy McMichens, Cassandra Girard, Robby Hill, Andrea Wilson, Slacktwaddle, Willow Whitcomb, Mo, Leslie Ford, Jim Poesl, Daniel Chu, Scott Bowling, Michael Jones, Ed Jarot, James Vanhaerent, Nick Cook-West, Brian Heckathorne, Kilian Trapp, Katherine M. Prioli, Nelson Silveira, Kit Marie Rackley, Gordon Watson, Andy Bruce, Durrell Bishop, & Andrew Golden.Thank you for your support!This Podcast is recorded under a SAG-AFTRA agreement.“Our creations are protected by copyright, trademark, and trade secret laws. Some examples of our creations are the text we use, artwork we create, audio, and video we produce and post. You may not use, reproduce, or distribute our creations unless we give you permission. If you have any questions, you can email us at [e-mail] Sponsors:* Check out Progressive: https://www.progressive.com* Check out Uncommon Goods: https://uncommongoods.com/tdfSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-delta-flyers/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Delta Flyers' Journey Through the Wormhole with Quark, Dax, and their good friends, Tom and Harry. Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Your host for today are my fellow Trek actors Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeil, and myself, Garrett Wong. and I'm speaking that way because I just saw Armis play. Okay. Well, everybody.

We did. We all saw it. All three of us. They were so fantastic. weren't they both? They were so good. And the other two actors. The other two actors.

Like, it's a really, it's a wonderful way. I'm a huge Liza fan. I saw her in 12th night too. Really? Oh, she must have been great in that. Oh, my goodness. He was awesome. And Kitty and Armin director.

did it. Yeah. That's right. It was amazing. Oh, I thought the, I thought the young lady directed it. I didn't I know. Armine directed 12th night. Oh, I'm sorry. The gal in the play last night, the young one, directed the Irish play is what happened. But that's why I was confusing it. It is. I think it was another person. No, I think it's, it was her. That's what I recall. I want to say about the play that it was phenomenal. And everyone listening to this podcast, you're out of luck because the play will have closed by the time this podcast comes out. That's right. So next time we tell you, go check out Armand's play. You got to go. You got to go because we, we went to see it all three of us, and it was

phenomenal. It was a great play. It was beautifully executed. And it was reprised, right? Hadn't they done it in the spring? Yes. This is their second run. This is a second time. So good. Kitty, I just, when I saw that my heart was, she was. so, she's not a frail person as a, you know, she's strong. But her physicality was so good, wasn't it? It just broke my heart. I was just needed to squeeze her extra. The difference, Terry, just so you know between that first run, the second run,

we learned this from Armin, that first run, the stage was much bigger. And so this stage was very compact. And because of that, it actually added to the tension. and everything because it was more compact. The intimacy of it, sure. Was that like a 99-seat theater size? I think so. Yeah.

It felt small, small, yeah. I loved it. I loved the. I did too. The actors, the play, and. Oh, my gosh, the sets, how they rotated them and moved. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Birthday time. Birthday times. Woo! Birthday time. All right. Carol Patterson has a birthday on December 13th. Happy birthday, Carol. Happy birthday, Carol.

Happy birthday, Carol. Estelle, December 13th. Happy birthday, Estelle. What a beautiful name. Happy birthday, Estelle, another December 13th. You and Carol should have a party. Happy birthday to Estelle. And we also have Justin Weir.

Justin Weir on December 14th. Look at all these Sagittarians here. Happy birthday, Justin. Happy birthday, Justin. Happy birthday, Justin. Have a great birthday. Now, I would not be, it would not be good if I did not mention one other person. December 14th is the birthday of my beloved Megan.

So, Megan is December 14th as well. So, happy birthday, Megan. Happy birthday, Megan. And then, of course, my birthday is the day after December 15th. Happy birthday to me! Happy birthday to you! Are you turning 40 again? I turn 40.

Yes, my 17th anniversary of my 40th birthday. So happy. Hey, what's up, y'all? Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. My favorite thing about the holidays? Dacking out my whole house. It's not a competition, but if it was, well, I'd win the season with Wayfair. Outdoor inflatable Santa?

Got it on Wayfair. Trees, lights, and ornaments? Wayfair. Hosting must-havs like dining sets, beds, sheets, and towels? Wayfair. For everything in your style, delivered with fast and free shipping, visit Wayfair. or the Wayfair app to win the season. But again, it's not a competition.

Wayfair, every style, every home. Poetry time. Robbie. Yes, it is. Limericus. For the episode, the ship. Here we go. A Gemhadar ship fell from the skies.

For Cisco, this was an incredible prize. The battle was severe. They lost friends that were dear. but victory came at a heartbreaking price. Oh, that was really pretty. Yeah, very well done, very tight and very efficient. Thank you. Yes, sir.

Price and prize, a little, but, you know, what are you going to do? It's close enough. It works for art. There we go. My haiku for the episode, The Ship. Conducting Survey, Gem Hadar Warship Crashlands, 5.5.5. fallen comrades. Hmm.

Also very tight and deep. Bet very deep. Yes, it is. It is. All right. Terry, you got some poetry for us? I do. It's fragmented.

It's short and sweet. Okay. Do it. Through experience we trust. For our strategy, a must. One lie takes us down to our unity, we are bound. I like it. I like it too.

Yes. Good. Thank you. It was really good. I thought she was scary. Oh, Kalana? Kalana? Yeah, because if she wasn't scary and so shady, shifty, if she would have been honest with him from the get-go,

Cisco would have trusted her if she had had that. Maybe. Maybe. If she didn't have that, like I'm, what is that? that word I want to use. It's just, it's not passive-aggressive. Maybe she was a little, but she was definitely-deceptive. Deceptive? Okay. Yeah, she seemed conniving and manipulative. I didn't get as much of that, but okay, I hear you. That's a, that's a legitimate. She didn't seem sincere. I guess that's, there you go. There you go. I didn't solve the way she was speaking. Yeah. She was definitely hiding something,

but we didn't know what it was. Yeah. Who was the first female Vorda that we saw, Robbie? It was that actress. Oh, you're asking me. I don't even remember what I had for breakfast. You know what I'm talking about. Is it?

I do. She did a guest star in Becker. She's done a lot, a lot of work. She's so talented. Yeah. And because she's done a ton of work, they wanted her back multiple times and her schedule would not allow it.

No, because she was supposed to be. Correct. She was it Molly Hagan? Yes, Molly Hagan. So Molly Hagan, her resume clearly. Molly is the bomb. Yeah. But because she's the bomb diggedy bomb, they wanted her back as the female Vorda twice.

And so the other time was in a prior episode. And then this time, they called her for this as well. And she was busy because she's always working. And so she said, I'm sorry. And so then we had Caitlin Hopkins as Kalana. They just came up with a whole different new character. another Vorda, another female Vorda. But they wanted Molly Hagen because they loved her so much from the first one.

She had a Sherilyn Finn look, didn't she? Who? The one in here? Caitlin? Hopkins? Yeah, she does definitely have that look. I thought she was gorgeous. She's beautiful, beautiful lady.

Yeah, for sure. Teleplay by Hans Baimla. Story by Pam Wigington and Rick Kaysen. And directed by Kim Friedman, a name we have not seen for a while. I know she was out there in the earlier seasons, but she's popping back in this one. guest stars Caitlin Hopkins as Colonna FJ Rio returns as Enrique Munez how do you pronounce would you say Munez Robbie or would you say Munez I would say Munez I would say Munez yeah I was surprised at how Column pronounced it the entire time

and I was like okay you've got Cisco you've got Avery Brooks in the same scene as you're going Munez and then you've got O'Brien going Munoz I'm like oh do you think it's because of his Irish accent. Maybe. Maybe. You know, because there are songs sometimes. I was just listening to an Ed Shearren song and it was, he said grass in such an odd way. Odd way.

Yeah. And it was, I thought, no, it's not odd to him. Right. Because he's not American. So that must be his accent coming through. And a lot of times when singers sing, you don't hear it. That's correct. Their accent, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And I think we get so used to Colum's voice that we don't. don't always consider that his accent does change how he pronounce his stuff. That's a valid point. It is a valid point. But it pulled me out a little bit because at times he references Enrique as Kiki. You hear Kike. Kiki is actually sort of a shortened way of saying Enrique in Spanish. People that speak Spanish will say Kiki. So I'm thinking if you're using that you should the pronunciation of his actual last name should be spot on right so it pulled me out

if you know what a Spanish nickname is you should know how to pronounce his proper his family name so that's something that kind of bug me a little bit a small nitpick though I noticed that too I did and by the way Kike as a short for Enrique yeah reminds me of my son's name is Kyle but I heard a Hawaiian person pronounce at Keeley one time. And so we kept her. Yes. I call Kyle Keeley a lot. Oh, my God.

That's funny. Oh, Keele. That is cool. That is good. I didn't know about the Kiki thing. Yeah. But that part took me out a couple times because I thought, wait a minute. What's his name?

I thought his name was Nureke. So I didn't know that. So it's just interesting, the things that can throw us off of our watching. And at one point when he first says in Kiki, I thought he said, you know how people text each other? And when they say KK, KK, like, I'm going to come up. Will you be there at my house at 9 o'clock? KK. So I thought he was saying that KK, that not a name. So you thought he was being pretentious. Yes. But then I was like, good of it. He said K. I thought he was acting like a 12-year-old girl. Exactly. I thought he said T-K.

T-K. Oh, yeah. That's how it sounded to me. Right. And you're like, that's not his name. Okay. I think that that's why sometimes Star Trek was so, you know, militant about us saying things properly is because it leads to this kind of confusion. We all sort of were distracted by pronunciations or, and I think cleaning that up and making it consistent would have helped this episode. I agree. Yes.

I agree. Let's talk about a co-stars. We have one, Hillary Shepard, as Hoya, as the Benzite. on the shuttle, on the runabout. That was Hillary Shepard? Yes. You can't even recognize her, man. Who is Hillary Shepard?

Help me out. She's a very good actress. She came in to read for when I did rejoined. Oh. And I got to sit on some of the casting, and she came in, and she was terrific. She didn't obviously get it, but she was terrific. And obviously, they liked her enough to bring her in to do something. She was in a band called a girl group called American Girls.

Yeah. before she started acting. That must have been a while. Oh, yeah. That was when she was a baby. And then she started going into acting and she started knocking it out of the park. Power Rangers? She was a main character in Power Rangers, yes. Wow. She was?

Yeah. So you've never worked with her, Rob. You saw our photo, right? Does she look familiar to you? Just type in Hillary Shepherd. A little bit. I did. I did.

Okay. Trivia. The exterior scenes were filmed at a gravel pit north of Los Angeles in Soledad Canyon. This is the same location. the exact same location that was used for Cardassia 4 in the second season episode Homecoming as well as the fourth season episode

Indiscretion, which it served as Desaria was the location. One thing that it had in common when they were filming for homecoming is that the temperature was off of the charts. They did not expect it to reach 124 degrees or whatever it was insane. It was hell.

Yeah. Hell. We were all dying. You were all dying. Oh, my gosh. Every single one of us. Yes. Caitlin Hopkins, who plays Kalana, she was quoted as saying that in one take, as they were going, she heard a clunk.

And she turned around one of the Jim Hadar background actress had passed out and just fallen over. Like he was completely just heat, what is it called? Yeah. Stroke. Stroke. Yes. Wow. You can't have that kind of heat with that much prosthetics.

Oh, my gosh. And Jerry and his team had, they had gone out. to get sea breeze and ice and then they put the towels around on your neck's and your wrists that's what I read and I mean just think about poor Michael Dorn oh my god freaking head on I had wool underneath my hair to have so it was like I was wearing a wool hat right yeah but he had that all in his face too on top of it oh my gosh Kim Friedman was saying she felt so bad because the crew was wearing shorts, t-shirts, and they were dying in just shorts and t-shirts. Kim Friedman said the crew was pouring water on top of their heads, and when they said action

by the end of the scene, that water was all evaporated. There was nothing left of that. She's not exaggerating. I mean, I really remember how awful to them having to use, because you know, when you work outside, a lot of times they have to do what's it called bounce board. And it's silver. Redirect the sun. So that's bouncing the sun.

sunlight right at the actors. Oh, my word. So then the sun's not enough. You got the silver bounce board. You got a sun coming from every direction. No, it was impossible not to complain. It really was bad. I want to say one thing about Caitlin Hopkins. Garrett, do you remember her on Voyager? What? Do you remember the episode where there was a bunch of fake Janeway and fake two She was fake Janeway. She was a Conner.

Yeah. Live fast and prosper. Yeah. That's the same actress. She was on Voyager. She played a fake. Yeah, she played a fake Janeway. She played that she was good.

Oh, I didn't see why though. Dark hair, blue eyes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's a terrific actress. Wow. Well, they all are.

I mean, and F.J. Rio, wasn't he great? Oh. I'm going to say I'm going to like it. I would say maybe didn't have to shiver quite as much, but I thought he was really good. He was working hard. He was working hard, but I

Yeah, the whole, that to me is a director thing. They should have had, yeah, should have said something. Yeah. I think generally I'll just give my two cents to kind of frame up my perspective on this. Sure. This episode had a great opportunity to deal with

paranoia, suspicion. trust all those issues. And also death and dying and grieving. And I felt like this episode was directed very intellectually. I think there were shots and things that made it clear to me that that Kim Friedman understood the ideas of the show. But I don't think that she was able to capture it in the performances. No.

As much as she could have. From Caitlin Hopkins, F.J. Rio, Cisco. call them everybody. I felt like they were sort of teaching us about this episode rather than experiencing it and really owning it. Great. Great note. There was a point where I made a Dax had to make a joke and it just was completely incongruent with the scene. And it was like, oh, ick. I know exactly where you're talking about. Right? I wish, they would just cut that out or it just it doesn't make sense for my character to not be more aware of yeah read the room yeah read the room and i'm 350 years old and i make that stupid joke

it you know if julian did it you go he's being flipped he's not mature enough but all of us at that point it was too much especially with him dying i i asked myself when I was watching this, I said, okay, this is a season five episode. Everyone should have a grip on their characters. Everything should be on cruise control at this point. But I felt now that I, now that we talked about the oppressive heat, I almost wonder if that was a factor in not getting the complete performances that we needed. Because I were on stage for all the interior stuff.

That's air condition. Yeah. It's not. Okay. So that wouldn't have affected any of the interiors at all. Pete, that feeds, that can feed the oppression, the fear. It can. The paranoia, everything.

And that's what it should do. I don't, yeah, anyway, we're probably summarizing too much before we're in it. Yes. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. By the way, I do want to say before we get into it, that I am wearing our new Delta Flyers T-shirt that is available on our website.

boldly staying in one place is what it says boldly staying in one place I do like the quality of the t-shirts that so comfy is it Rebecca that picks them out or is it you Garrett picks out the the quality of the t-shirts you pick out are phenomenal I'm so happy yes that defiant sweatshirt is my favorite sweatshirt is my favorite go-to sweatshers. It's so cozy. Isn't it? And I love so much how it's straight and not this bulbous, you know how a lot of, yeah. But the kids wear it that way. They like big, but we like fitted, I think, better. Yeah, but you can buy a bigger size if you want it to be loose. I just like that it doesn't make you look like the Michelin man. You know what I mean? Oversized is great, but yeah.

Well, if you want to be a cool kid and get our new shirt, check out. It's comfy, it's funny, and ironic, and where can we find that, Robbie? You can find it at the Delta Flyers merch shop, which is at the deltaflyer.org. I've never been. The Delta Flyers, the, I'm typing it in right now, the delta, the delta flyers.org. And look at that. And you go to shop and then at a shop, you can find this lovely shirt, which would have been out for a couple months by the time you guys see this

one. So. Oh, there's fabulous blue ones too. Did you see this? Yes. Sorry. Terry's funny for the first time. I'm so excited. Terry, as you watch that, we'll go ahead

and jump into this episode. As you shop. All right, we start with the captain's log. Start 8504.9.3. The captain said, Mr. Cisco says, we're conducting a mineral survey of Torga 4. It's an uninhabited planet in the gamma quadrant, believed to contain vast deposits of kormoline. Our mission is to determine the feasibility of establishing a mining operation on the

planet's surface. So we cut down to this desert planet. That's the place you were talking about. The gravel pit and sold out of canyon. Yep. The hottest spot in Los Angeles, California. How about this on the planet? Oh, my word.

Well, Miles stops. He sits down, looks at a rock. Munez comes over. He teaches him about the erosion differences in the rocks. And this is sort of establishing the banter between these two. And Munoz teases him for resting and being an old mountain man. And Miles says, well, you're due for a transfer pretty soon to waste extraction. So we do get some of this banter, which is interesting, but came out of left field for me.

I'm like, well, no, but he's had that type of banter with Munoz Munoz in prior episodes, but this is my, this is my knock. It's, it, that, that chumminess, that sort of brotherhood of engineers, I don't feel it. It's not there at all, okay, especially from Column. It doesn't feel organic. Like, he's annoyed that this guest star is even there, I felt. It was sort of like, oh, God, you know, waste of traction for you, then.

He kind of phoned it in. It's not funny. Yeah, it should know. It needed pace. It pasting, charmingness, and yes, yes. Well, isn't it also kind of odd that it's not, we've seen less of Munez than we've seen of who's the actor who annoys Odo or the character that annoys Odo that's always, was kind of around a lot for when Chief O'Brien was gone.

Oh, the Starlink guy, yes. Eddington, yes. Eddington. Right, but we didn't see, we haven't, if we had already. already established. And also then I think Munoz needed to be younger. Yes, I agree. Right. They talk about him being so young later. They seem like they seem like the same age almost. Yeah. Too close anyway. They're two adult men having this thing instead of like an intern vibe where you're like the kids right out of college. He's 21. Eager and kind of silly.

That's not how Munoz feels to me. I think they should have auditioned a new actor for a new character because we don't know Munez well enough. It doesn't pay off that we've seen him before. Who cares? It should have been a new person. Yes, and much younger. They could have found better chemistry.

Yes. Also, the dialogue that they chose, what the writers wrote. It was almost as if they were trying to have a reference to O'Brien, not O'Brien, column, acting in a film, the 1995 film, The Englishman who went up a hill but came down a mountain. As you notice, there's a bunch of hills and mountain stuff going on in this time. So this may have been an inside joke for the writers, but it didn't work for me. It didn't land.

None of this landed, to the point where I kept saying, where's the stakes in terms of the stakes of closeness, the bonding, the camaraderie? None of that was there. Yes, because this is important. imperative. Yes. It's imperative that they bond now for what happens later. Exactly. That's why I didn't get as impacted by it. Yeah. You don't feel it. I get it now. You don't care about, you don't care about F.J. Rio's character. You don't care about it. You don't have, you're not. Maybe they were just so distracted by the heat that they weren't really able to play the scenes well. Maybe. Maybe. Didn't feel that chemistry didn't feel

strong. I don't think that's what it was. I think they just didn't have the chemistry and it should have been written differently. Yes. So the chemistry was off. But I do feel that first scene is outside in the heat, right? So it seemed like Colum was like playing it like, let's finish it so I can get under some shade. You know, it was just so many. I mean, just get done with this. I don't want to deal with this right now. Yeah.

Also, none of the shots looked like they were morning or late afternoon. Everything looked like it was right like from 11 to 3. The worst time of the day. Yeah. Why didn't we get there? I don't know. Who knows? You'll tell us later, I'm sure.

We'll see. Well, we cut over by the base camp and Cisco's checking with the team to see if this would make a good kormoline mine, basically. And DAC says, yes, I think it would. Warf says supply lines would be hard, but not impossible. And then we get a call from the runabout and it's Hoya, a female benzate. She says a ship is approaching. They've detected something dropping out of warp and she can't tell what kind of ship it is, but it's being pulled into the planet's gravity field and the team looks up. And this is, and this was cool. I thought this vis effect was cool. You see this ship sort of streaking sky. Can I have a makeup thing? Can I have a makeup? Her eye, her makeup. Yes. Very interesting choice. Love that right away the seams around the eye. You could see them. Oh, I mean, what? It's one close up. And it drove me

insane. Yeah. What do you think that makeup was, because Michael Westmore, would always say they'd look at animal books and try to find a makeup from fish books or mammals or that what was it benzite to me looks like a cat and a frog together yes it looked like a reptile cat to me it's exactly what i was thinking yeah yeah and i i like i went ooh i like that they're experimenting it was definitely out of the box yeah well but but the quality of the makeup me off. It's just, it's just stupid when we have so many talented artists. Yes. That that one thing. Yes. And I'm certain that, you know, it's, it's also, uh, production required Michael Westmore to come up with these things in a nanosecond. Right. Yes. And you can't get the highest quality if you're not giving your artists enough time to do the work they know how to do. super well. That's frustrating to watch. Of course. A little bit of trivia for both of you. The Benzite were introduced before. So this is not the first time that they've been on Star Trek.

They were in Next Generation. Their introduction was a Next Generation episode. But they have been spoken about in Deep Space Nine, specifically in a very recent episode when the Klingons were talking about all their battle stories in that one scene where all of our main players went undercover as Klingons. Do you remember that? So they're in that great hall and one of them said like,

oh, I boarded that Starfleet ship and I killed the Benzite captain, okay? And he said, he goes, I cut off his breathing tube, okay? So then I was like, wait a minute. So they have to wear some type of protective, you know, helming with a gear.

Respirator or something. So then doing more research, Michael Okuda, said, well, the benzites have new technology, which allows them to be sitting there without a helmet. So that's why this is a non-helmeted benzite. But we do have a reference to them. Just came up with a reason that they didn't have to deal with it. Exactly. They're so advanced now.

They don't need the breathing apparatus any longer. So, yeah. But anyway, interesting to see a full, com prosthetic alien on the show. Yeah. I like that. Yes, we see this thing crash, and then Cisco says, Beemus over there. Beemus directly to the crash site. We cut over to the crash site.

And we see that this giant ship has sort of dug itself into the ground, and this crash site leaves a trail of burnt, you know, ground there. And it's upside down. It's upside down, yeah. And that did look cool. Which I have behind me, by the way. Woohoo. That is a Gem Hadar Worship.

It looks kind of like a bug, doesn't it? That's what I always saw it. It looked like a stink bug. Oh, you did balloons. Yeah. It's a bug. It's a bug. It's a stink bug.

They see this warship upside down and they start to investigate and that's when we go to our opening, our amazing opening credits. We come back a little later. They're looking around. O'Brien and Munez look at the hatch. They're kind of investigating the seams of the hatch. The ship crashed upside down and they say this is a hatch for landing. Troops is a big hatch.

Yeah, Munez makes that point, which was, I was thinking bombs came out of it. So when he said that, of course. My nitpick is this. When he asked about, can it be open? He's like, yeah, I think so. And then later they talk about when they're inside, they're like, there's no warp core. There's no this. This is so foreign to us.

We don't understand how the tech works here. And then he's able to open it that easily on the outside. He opens it very quickly. I'm sorry. They don't know this tech. Oh, don't nitpick. about that yet. Plenty more to nip hair.

Okay, fine. All right. So they open the hatch. Cisco and Worf jump inside. And the ramp sort of swings open. That was a big, like those kind of things on a location set. They have to move this set and then make it, you know, interactive in some way. That's not easy to do.

And by the way, that wide shot is a visual effects extension. So they probably built a small set piece for the time. tight shots and the coverage and stuff, but the wide shots were all an extension of a set extension with visual effects. So I thought that. It was kind of what I remember it being life size and really amazing, but hot and super not fun. Oh, it was silver. I do remember being like near it and like it was even worse to be near something metal. Yes. Emitting the heat on top of it with the bounce boards wait so you're saying that they built the an entire facade of the ship then is that there was a portion what i remember is a portion but i could it's probably it's 30 years ago i could

totally be wrong but i do remember there was something there right yes like robbie saying that was yeah but it was made of metal man and yeah yeah i mean it wasn't the entire ship but it was oh yeah everybody was grumpy. Every single one of us was like stretched. I bet. I bet. They were thin. Well, they jump inside and I did like

Kim Friedman's transition into this inside of this ship. I don't know if you recall, but the camera sort of did this twisting rotation to kind of say oh, we're going into, you know, down the rabbit hole or Alice in Wonderland. Yeah, down an abyss.

Well, very suspenseful. And the lighting and the inside, too, when we were in it with the just catching pieces of our faces. It was a little ominous, but felt empty. Yeah, her shot making, I thought, was really smart and showed insight into the themes of this story. But I think what is missing here, and my memory of Kim Friedman when she directed us on Voyager was, I don't mean to sound like critical. or this is not personal, but I'll just say my memory is that Kim, for me, didn't direct actors great. She was great with ideas and shots and technical stuff, but like finding an emotional kind of fuel. Connection. I don't remember that. That's a great word. And she didn't fuel this

episode very well. So the technical aspects, I think, are really good, but I think it almost kind of pulls the actors away from the emotional core of this. And there's such potential in this episode that I was disappointed that it didn't reach that potential and just sort of was showing these cool rotation shots. That's cool. But you've got to keep going with the performance of the actors. And I don't think that was successful. And is that interesting? And I wonder if, well, especially then, it was very unusual to have a female director. Yeah. But I wonder if maybe if you were a female director in that time, if you would be more

concerned with the technical things that men think you're not good at and not connect to the things that they think you'd be mushy about, like the feelings and actors. Maybe. So maybe an overcompensation for being, for gender purposes? Yeah. It's very possible. Maybe. Mm-hmm.

Um, my impression, what I remember is feeling like she felt like a really nice principal. Yes. Like the principal of your school. Yes. Very organized, great with everybody, but not less, less would talk to us more about our feelings. Like throw a little nugget in, you know. Oh, less was great with finding just simple, simple ways to kind of, you know, kickstart a performance idea or an emotion. kind of idea yeah well anyway there's a great suspense sequence where they go through the whole ship securing different parts of it and eventually they walk into the command center where this gem hidar is hanging upside down because the ship's upside down yeah and they're all dead for that yes yes

Karen has his mouthful. You always maybe spit Coca-Cola out, yeah. Well, they're all dangling there, and O'Brien says they died from an inertial damper failure, so their bodies were literally thrown against the bulkheads, their bones crushed. Do you imagine that? That is insanity. The inertial dampers fail, and they get slammed against a bulkhead, and every bone is shattered? The force of that must have been incredible.

Well, they must have been, they came at a warp or they were in warp? I don't even know what happened. It would be instantaneous, yeah. Yeah. They also would probably be splattered into goo. See, that's what I didn't understand. They should be, they should be liquid. They should be completely.

Well, it's still a family show and it's still the early 90 or mid-90s. They're not going to. All right. Yeah. Well, they, they see the ship is engineered very differently than Starfleet ships. They're trying to understand it. Cisco says this is incredible. We found a Gem-Hadar shift.

This will be great intelligence. Let's tractor it back to the station. O'Brien says, well, we're not going to haul it out of here with a runabout. And Cisco ends with, well, we're going to need something with a little more muscle. There you go. We know we're going to get the defining. Which, by the way, we never see. Kira says she's going to head there.

Anyway, that was another thread that wasn't. Yeah. Never shows up. You're right. never involved. Yeah. Well, in the next scene, we do go back to the station. We're back on DS9.

And now we see Quark and we see Bashir. They're with Odo. And we find out both cork and Bashir are in trouble. We always assume it's always just going to be cork. But no. But Bashir is in trouble. So we're like wondering, what the heck is going on? Kira is there.

I did like this dialogue, by the way. Did you? I like the scene. I'm not a conspirator. Oda is like, what would you call yourself then? An idiot. I'll buy that. It's very funny.

And the pacing was good. Like, I think the actors were able to find their performance tone. And it was a nice refreshing scene. And we're in the fourth season? Fifth season. Number five. Fifth season. When did we start five?

We just started. I don't want this to end. This is number two. Okay. Well, I was joking with Robbie. I think it was Armin was on when we were recording. I said, it doesn't have to end. We can now redo DS9, but swap it.

All the episodes that Terry did not review becomes the ones she reviews. All the ones in the review, he reviews, because part of it is a lot of those episodes you guys didn't see. So that could be brand new again. That was my joke. That was my little thing that extend us if we could. But the whole, but back to the episode, though, the whole reason why they're in trouble is because Quark smuggled these regalia and fleece spiders on. But he did it for Kira, because there's something in

their venom that was going to help her with her circulation, clearly to do with her pregnancy, right? To help her out and be, you know. The spiders were ordered by Dr. Bashir. Bashir, exactly, from court. And that's where he said he was stupid because he shouldn't have asked Quark, right?

And cork did one other thing. He then also imported these regalia liquid crystals, which are basically some type of aphrodisiac that could be a little deadly or a little dangerous. So all of this stuff needs permits, all of it. And none of the permits were filled out. So now they have to pay the price.

He's selling drag. Well, Kira does not have time for this. She's like, I like Kira's response. You know, she's like, you guys need to work this out. I'm taking the defiant to help Cisco. I'm leaving right now. Yep. And so, yeah, it's a cute little residual scene.

it is and refreshing to get away from the heated areas but this makes me want more of this talked about before you do a one or two this is the only scene for the B storyline isn't right that's it that's it there should be at least two more I mean there should be in threes at least right I think we wanted that as an audience right to see more Bershear and court yes yes well we go back to the crash site after this. And we never leave. We never leave, basically. A cool, big wide shot here.

Munoz is helping Miles with some engineering advice to help get the thrusters working, get the ship out of here. And O'Brien is impressed by Mune's ideas. And he says, well, maybe no waste extraction for you after all. So more banter, but again, not totally. successful in my opinion. Not at all. No. Not at all. It's like reading. It was almost like a table

read. You know what they should have done? Instead of Munez, it should have been Jake Sisko. But then he would have to die. He would have to die, though. No, we'll kill somebody else. Okay. He should be a new character. Yes. But when Jake was his apprentice, they

had a great banter. Oh, that's right. I forgot about that. So have another red shirt and have them get killed, but that, but not. But not this. Yeah. Maybe he gets injured, but doesn't die. Okay. I'll later.

I think he's got to die for the, for the story to make sense. Like, but it needs to be more chemistry and they needed somebody like Jake or like, you know, Jake's age. I like the younger choice. I can't let it go. I feel like a pit bull about this. I know. I'm sorry, F.J. Rio.

we're so sorry. Well, that's necessarily his fault. It's not personal and it's not even, it's about the execution and how it comes off. It doesn't succeed in this. Colum needed to do the lines in a much more mind way and not literally wanting to send him off or feel. It came off like he felt competitive with him, to me a little bit.

Yeah, it didn't feel fun. It felt kind of mean. No. Yeah. So the onus is on Kim Friedman to make sure that these things pop a little bit more. A little bit on Column, you know, like we just saw a scene with Odo and Odo and Bashir and Quark, where I would guess the actors took care of business and knew what they needed to do. Uh-huh. So Colum could have known what he needed to do better and I think been more successful in this, even if the director wasn't helping him out.

He could have taken control a bit a bit more. Which is surprising, because he usually does. That's my point. It could be the take they pick, too. But in my imagination, if I were doing that scene, I can totally see a director coming up and saying, that's not funny. It sounds too harsh. There needs to be some irony.

Pace this up, lighten it up, laugh a little, like, have fun. Play a game with each other. Yeah. You know, I often pitch that when I'm directing. don't have chemistry, and that's because you're not in the scene. You can create chemistry, but both parties need to be aware that both actors need to be aware that it's their responsibility to find something they like about the other actor, because it's coming across that you don't like him.

Correct. And that's not the intention of the scene. No. Annoying is different than not liking. Way different. I used to do an exercise with actors. when I was looking for them to get present, to be present and listen,

and to have fun and play a game. I would say, I'd say, I want you guys to play a game where you can't say the word what, but I want you to have a conversation with no pauses, back and forth. You can ask questions,

you can talk. So here we go, three, two, one go. And they would be like, how are you today? Well, I'm doing good. What did you do? Ah, busted!

I caught you. What? So you'd play the, game and once they started playing it you can't say the word what you start to realize it's just a simple exercise but it got people present and i was like now what you're feeling that energy put it into the scene yeah put that energy listen you're paying attention you're having fun you're playing a game that's all we're doing yeah it is it would create an energy that people instead of intellectualizing oh you guys have chemistry and you should be teasing each yeah get

That's all intellectual. Right. And that's how this whole episode felt to me was very intellectualized and not owned by Cisco, by O'Brien, by anybody. Even by Dax, I got to be honest. I know. You're trying so hard not to say it. You've already, and I was like giving you a look because I want to give you permission to say it.

But I think that it came from the top. No, I think it came from the top because it was so universal and consistent that I think it came from the way that you were being teachered a bit, you know, let's teach this episode rather than let's live it and experience it and bring it to life. It was, let's show we know the themes and lessons of this episode, by our shots, by our. Well, you know, Robbie, okay, do you know, you've surfed before, right? Have both of you surfed before? I skied a lot.

But here's the thing. If you don't paddle fast enough to catch the wave, you never catch the wave, okay? you end up just and the problem here is the very first scene that we see Munez and O'Brien is outside in that crappy ass heat and that's the that's the first paddling for the wave scene okay they didn't catch the wave at all so because of that it was flat for me the entire time because they missed that opportunity yes that wave and and ignore the heat because honestly it did it really looked like column was like I am done with this heat Of as fast as I can get done with this scene, I'm going to just speak these words and be done with it.

I don't even care about my emotion here, you know, and that's what happened, I think. If we had riders on set, you could say maybe we could add something about the heat to integrate. Yes. After O'Brien makes the comment about he will not send MUNIS to waste extraction, Wharf does come in and talks about they buried the bodies on the other side of the ridge. There were 42 Jemadar who died in that. crash as well, before the crash, and then one Vorda. At that point, we have an off-camera hail from Hoyas saying that there's another warship that's shown up. Another one.

Don't you think it's kind of remarkably fast how Worf and I buried the bodies? Because Warf and I come in. I'm just 45. You guys, that's a lot of, yes. We should have like sweat all over us. Oh my gosh. I'm sure you were sweating a lot. Yeah, you were cleaning, patting you down. I wouldn't sweat here. Right. And Jerry would complain that no matter how much dirt I put on you, by the time they say action, it all comes off.

And I didn't brush it off. It's just. Oh, how funny. I was like repelling. Yeah. That's funny. Anyway, sorry. Well, just to dig the grave of one dead Gem Hadar would have made you guys sweat like crazy,

but you guys dug the grave of 40 plus Gem Hadar. So it doesn't make sense. Without a digger. Nobody. Yeah. What are you guys using to dig? Your hands? I don't even know.

Yeah. So you guys should be really messy and dirty and sweaty. You're right. Good cut. Good catch. Good catch. Well, we get the hail from Hoya. It's another Gem Hadar ship.

And guess what? They are actually firing on them. And before they can even warp, go to warp. Hoyas says they've locked phasers on us hard to port. Shields are down. Engage warp. And that's when everyone. Everything fritzes out.

We do have a shot of our gang looking up in the sky and we see basically the explosion of our runabout, which is horrible, really. I mean, we've already. Poor Hoy. Poor Hoy. Poor Hoy. But it was, the makeup was not done correctly. That's what happens in Star Trek.

That's what happens when you don't wear your protective helmet with air breathing tube. Exactly. So, I mean, yeah. Yeah. And how much, why don't we have a moment to silence? Yeah, there really wasn't. Or something. They didn't have time for that because that's when the Gemadar actually beamed down to the planet surface and start firing on our heroes.

Oh, yeah. Right. Oh, that's true. I forgot that. And that's when Cisco yells, inside, inside. We don't have a chance in the open. That's when Munoz gets shot, too. Yeah, in the stomach.

Yeah. Red alert. The holidays are almost here. And if you still have names on your list, don't panic. Don't panic. Yeah, I think it's time for battle stations. Not quite, Mr. Paris. We still have time.

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It was really fun to put together, and the fact that it's customizable and has a different finished product each time is so exciting. I know Armand finished it too, and up next is Terry. Oh, I can't wait to see what all of our different puzzles look like. Be sure to keep an eye out on our social media to see them all once Terry finishes. Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. From moms and dads to kids and teens, from book lovers and sports fans to foodies, mixologists, and gardeners. When you shop at Uncommon goods, you're supporting artists and small independent businesses. Every purchase is a chance to choose something remarkable and feel good about where your money goes. of all that, do you think we can turn off red alert? Yeah, I think so. I'm feeling a lot less

stress knowing I have uncommon goods in my back pocket. So don't wait. Make this holiday the year you give something truly unforgettable. To get 15% off your next gift, go to uncommon goods.com slash TdF. That's uncommon goods.com slash TDF for 15% off. Don't miss out on this limited time offer. Uncommon goods. We are all out of the ordinary. Uh, Robbie, I'm just going to say in my reaction video, I say the reason why Cisco says we don't have a chance in the open is because none of them, none of them remembered how to aim their phasers is what, what I said, because no, not a single Gem Adar gets hit. Have you noticed that? Everyone's firing. Warf is firing. Dax is a big action sequence. Yeah, but somebody should have hit one Gem Hadar at least. Didn't we get them? We didn't get any of them?

Not one got hit. No. It was, yeah, no, no. You guys need to go to Target practice. That's highly unrealistic. Who's that other character, the one that the bald guy that gets shot off of the oh my God. Oh, yeah. I can't remember that guy. Yeah, that guy. So he gets shot, he gets shot and dies. Tolor. Toor.

Tolor's gone. Okay. Yep. And he's got the medical kit, by the way. He's got the med kit. Right. Munez gets shot. Now, here's the thing. They talk about how Gemadar weapons actually are made to when they hit you.

anti-coagulant or something. They sit there, you die slowly on purpose because then everyone else in the unit has to help and transport the wounded to, it slows down. Yes, it takes a lot of energy in time. Yes. So that's part of the reason. Yes, we are.

But the weird thing is, what's the name of the guy that got shot, Robbie? Toulor. Toulor. Why isn't Toulore still like, I'm feeling like this? He fell down and bumped his head. Okay, fine. So he had a concussion.

He bumped his head. His little head, which I don't even know what alien was. It was a cool alien. It was the short, bald alien. I don't know. He had little, he had little bugs on the top, a little rich. Why didn't we grab the medical kit? It's insane or go back out when the bombs stop.

I know. My God. Okay. Oh, when we do this, it drives me insane because I can enjoy it and then we talk about it. And it's, there's big holes and gaps. Are we ruining it? I hope we're not ruining it for anybody because there's a lot of things to love in this episode. Yeah.

A lot of great stuff. This next sequence, they go inside the ship and they're hiding. And I thought this was really well done. The footsteps, they're looking up above, hiding out, all the suspense moments, like really, really effective. They hear the footsteps right above them. I think Cisco's like, let's move to the command center. And this is Miles and Munoz. still continuing this kind of old guy, young guy, banter bit.

Munez seems okay in this. He's like, doesn't he say something like, I'll keep an eye on you or I'll help you through it or something? Yeah, like he's going to help O'Brien out. Yeah. He says, don't worry, Hefe. I'll get you through this. Yeah.

And O'Brien says, I feel better already. Yeah. This is where they should have been at the first scene. Yes, which they were not at at all. Yeah. I do like the inclusion of Spanish words in here to. you know, kind of call back to the heritage of Munoz, Munoz. And more, the more out of it he got, I think, the more he should have been speaking Spanish.

Exactly. And he does later, right? We talk about the fireworks and everything, but you're saying almost all Spanish at that point. Yes, say the whole thing in Spanish. Everything in Spanish, yeah. Yes. Yeah, he's, there's definitely better banter in this little section where he's talking about, you know, I'll walk you through it.

Well, we learn that Munoz is hurt worse than it seems. outside that he's getting and we feel in this scene that he's worried that he's not he's starting to lose some of his bravado here a little bit asks how long until um you know the defiant's going to be here it's going to be a couple of days miles says and uh you can tell that he's worried by the end of this scene you can tell that munez is worried and o'brien's worried too you know this this scene for me, worked a lot better than the previous ones in terms of their connection and banter. Yeah. It was definitely better in this kind of moment of a turn from two buddies to they care about each

other and they're worried about each other. But this is interesting that this is the relationship all three of us agree that was a misstep from the get-go and that it took us out. Because you're right, there are a lot of good things about this episode. The potential for this episode, like Robbie said earlier, was massive. Huge potential in this episode, which was not lived up to, unfortunately. Yeah. Okay, so it's a little later.

Dax comes back in with a battery pack for O'Brien. They get this power going. We learned that Munez needs a fresh bandage. Miles tears his sleeve off and tells him to stop bleeding or he's going to run out of clothes. So clearly some time has passed. He's torn. But here's the thing. If I go out for a battle,

pack why can I why didn't I grab the med kit maybe did you go outside oh I thought you went in another part I think you yeah you thought you found that battery pack in another part of the ship inside you guys it didn't go back out at all so the bombing still happening they haven't started bombing yet they haven't started yet but they're about sorry okay yeah but you're nervous about other gemmador outside so I don't think you went outside at all you got it from the part of the ship for sure I think so too my nitpick is it is not easy to tear off a piece of your undershirt like that. That was like tear away, like rip away.

He's very strong, Miles O'Brien. He's a manly man. He's a beefcake underneath that little bit of Irish padding. Fine. Climbed the mountains of Ireland. All right. The Irish strength. Yeah, there is.

It's Irish. With Army knife. Come on. Well, Kalana calls the Vorta. And calls on the calm. Which, by the way, I didn't like the sound design of this calm. It sounded like the announcements in elementary school when they came on the... Yeah, I agree.

It was kind of echoey. It was kind of, it didn't sound high tech. It sounded, whatever they did to that sound. I didn't like that choice. It didn't sound like we were on Star Trek Deep Space. It sounded like a different show altogether. It sounded like they were making school announcements. Yes.

I agree. After school today. It was out of the body, too. It was like. It should have been, it should have been, it should have been, it should have said, Captain Sisko, my name is Kalana. The boys cross-country team, what took second place. Exactly.

Yesterday. That would have been funny. Well, she calls, she wants to talk to Cisco, says, and she sounds concerned. She's like, I hear you have casualties. I feared that you might have been one of those casualties. So she seems like a very nice boredom so far. She suggests a face-to-face meeting. They can each bring one person.

He agrees. Out we go. She's very charming to him in the scene. Flattering him, but he's very standoff. It doesn't trust her. No, because she's charming. Charming is a red flag. Especially with the Vorda.

Yes. I didn't like this whole banter here about how salvage rights and old legal tradition. Because I felt like Cisco is a kind of guy that would be like, you know what, this is vessel take it you know i it just bugged me that he this was the ground that he decided to die on this piece of you know battle here like i'm not going to give up this ship at all and i was like why i don't it's not even your ship i get it you want to go back and reverse engineer everything i suppose but old legal tradition old old legal yeah yeah yeah just bugged me a little finders keepers he wants the ship back he says salvage rights is my claim to it we have

found it. She says you're surrounded. We've got you surrounded. It seems foolish. And she offers some food. She says, you know, maybe you should eat something before you go inside. So she's being very suspiciously nice. Yes, suspiciously nice. And also don't forget, we know the defiant is coming. So if we can hold them off and stay in that. Two days. Two days. And that's probably why Cisco has this. I'm sticking to my ground here. Yeah, because I know the defiance coming. Just to inform this a little bit. It's easy to forget those tiny things.

We do see inside a corridor, a Gem Hadar beams in, we don't know who this is, and then shrouds himself. And he starts running down the corridor. It's like, what are you going, dude? Yeah. A little confusing, to be honest. It is confusing, and I still don't understand, was that the changeling from later? on or? Well, it's, oh, maybe. Well, no, but because he, remember, he's the one, the guy that beams in, definitely not

the changeling, because he places that one device that looks like a, a Borg spider device or something that's on a bulkhead. We don't know about the changeling, yeah. No, yeah, we don't, we have no clue. I'm just, but he's just postulating there. It's just strange that this guy beams in out of nowhere and we don't really know who he is or what he's doing. And we still don't know.

I don't know if it was this spider device. I don't know. Maybe it was. Well, they postulate, they're like, well, we think it was a sensor thing to see how many people are inside here. I'm like, right. And that made me mad because if this is your tech, if this is your tech, you should have sensors that can penetrate into and see how many people, humans are in there, how many

Starfleet. You should have that tech already to say, you see what I'm saying? They're saying, they're making it sound like it's so protective that the walls of of that ship are so thick that they can't even get in. And so this guy beams in and puts in a device. We don't even know the answer. So why doesn't the guy beam in and take what she wants? Is that what you're saying?

I think here's what it just occurred to me. Because we're intercutting between Cisco and Kalana and she's offering these calavas to him. So she's feeding him. So I think this whole charming being nice is to distract Cisco out of there so she can send her dude in. to find the change link. To find the changeling. That's what it is. Oh, yes.

That makes sense now. I didn't until we talked it through. But then why would we trust her at all after this? Because she is obviously the person who sent the Gemha-Dar in. Yeah, that makes sense now. That guy. I mean. It didn't make sense to me in the watching. Me neither.

Me neither. It seemed like why didn't they all come in and just obliterate us and take it what they want? Yep. Yeah. Well, she hangs out with Cisco, says this is her very first mission, her very first time dealing with the Federation. She just plays herself off as being very innocent and naive. It seems suspicious. Yeah.

And she offers to take. And she looks like Cheryl and Finn. She's this sexy border who's offering him food and knows way too much about him. That was creepy too. That would never make me feel like I'm going to trust you if you're telling me personal things about, like, my child. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's like, danger, Will Robinson.

What? Yeah. There's an episode just so you know, Terry, where we, it's been established, I don't think you reviewed that one. It's been established that the Vorda use Captain Sisko's case as their training tool for all the other Vorda. So Jeffrey Combs talks about, Jeffrey Combs as Wei Yun says, like, oh, you know, In our Vorda, whenever we learn about humans, we use your case files so they know everything about Cisco. So that's part of a throwback to that episode. And I'm sorry.

You know what? I've been traveling too much. But I do sort of let them run and keep watching. But when I'm traveling like this, it's insane. Understood. No worries. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. But my problem was this, Robbie, in this scene, when she says, if you leave the ship, I'll take you and your crew back to your space station. unharmed. Our accommodations might not be lavish, but I promise you you'll all be well cared for, especially you're wounded. I thought this is a great part for Cisco. Really? Well, to approve that, heal one of our wounded, Munez. Let's see what you can do with that. And then we'll talk after that. That's, this is the part where he could have saved me. Oh, my God, it would have been like, or he could just say, hey, while I'm outside here, can I grab that med kit that's going

I could I have that right over there the run that's 20 feet away from me why don't I grab that why even ask just take it it it's ours first of all I don't think that med kit would have helped with that that weapon being a slow kind of killing that wouldn't there be one of Dr. Bashir's magic healer thing that all the doctors in Star Trek have the one where he fixed that kid's arm remember that yes yes broken arm is a little different from a Gem-Hadar weapon that's made to do cellular whatever it is that they could set the it may not have worked but it's worth a try it's worth the shot literally right there could stop him from bleeding yeah but she could have got he could have gotten that out of Kalana easily right I think

Kalana would have sure I'll I'll heal that one dude like that no problem you know no problem but we should have been in the writer's room we should we should we could have rid this whole episode all right well we're back inside the Gem Hadar ship more Dutch angles definitely Kim Friedman was into this Dutch angle concept. What is a Dutch angle? It's when the camera's tilted sideways. It's not straight on. It actually creates this dizzying sort of, it's an effect that you want to have when you're

trying to disorient. Yeah, you're like, what the hell's going on? Was it made famous by someone with the last name Dutch? I don't know, Robbie. I don't know. I think it was a German word. It was a mispronance. That makes sense.

It's a mispronunciation. Easy for you to say. I can't say it. Of a German word that referred to making someone uneasy, like creating a psychological disturbance. I like? Yes. Thank you.

That was interesting. Yeah. Yeah. German expressionist cinema is what sort of started it. So in the 1930s, 20s. 30s, that sort of expressionist, very geometric kind of things, and it would create an uncomfortable sensibility. Well, then they should have called it.

It's very fascinating, but it should have been called German angle or Teutonic angle or Deutsch angle. Maybe that's how it started as Deutsch and then became Dutch because someone's cut out the Ombla. It's our pronunciation. It's not that it's spelled wrong. It's just we say it wrong. As opposed to Deutsche.

It should have been Deutsch, Deutsche angle. Yeah. Deutsche. Well, more Dutch angles. Inside this ship, Dax wants to know what Cisco's doing. Miles is working on the power grid. And then suddenly there's a noise. They go to sea.

And this is where they spot that Borg spider on the wall, that scanner. Dax is checking it out. She's scanning it. She says it's some kind of sensor when a GemHadar beams in, attacks them. As the attack starts, we whip. outside to Wharf saying, Captain, they're in the ship. I wish that they had started the whip pan off of the fight and continued it on to Wharf because it was kind of half-baked.

I like the energy of it, but the transition seemed a little disconnected. But the energy is definitely shifting into this fight. We go back in the corridor, Miles is almost killed. And this is where Munoz saves him, basically. He's about to stab O'Brien is what he's going to do. stab him, and this is where Munoz shoots the gem Hedars. So he saves Miles, which is more guilt for him to feel later on that he saved his life. I have a question for Terry.

In that hand-to-hand combat scene where you're fighting the Gem Hidar, at one point it's you, and then it goes straight to your stunt double when you get backhanded in the face. Is your stunt double much shorter than you, or was she your same height? Because I felt like she seemed like she was five foot three. I was like, why would you pick her? My old stunt double left to become a firefighter. And later, sadly, passed away from cancer. I think her name was Casey.

And she was tall. Such a long time ago. Yes, we were the same height. And then after that, I think Pat did a lot of this stuff. And she's Nanaj height, which is much shorter than me, yes. Yeah. You mean Patty Tallman? Patty Tallman?

Yes. Because this is Patty Tallman. Like 5-8? 5-7 or 5-8? Because the N-N-N-A's like 5-6, isn't she? No, this is not, Pat, for sure. No, it's not. Her name is Karen Colvett was a stunt double for Terry in this episode.

Karen, C-A-R-O-N-Colvett. She was a stunt woman and stunt actress who served as one of the stunt doubles for Terry Farrell in Star Trek D-Space 9. She received no credit for her work. However, her name appears on a pair of boots sewed off on it's a rap sale and auction on eBay. Okay. Okay. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I think she's the one that was the same height as me or very close. Really? Yeah, it looks like it. I mean, just from her face, my memory is not of her being a short person. Whatever angle they shot that at. It seemed like she was teensy. The stunt double. I was like, huh.

Yeah, maybe it was the angle. All right. So moving on, we are in the command center. O'Brien's got this alien device. They discuss the scanner and the attack. Cisco thinks there's something about this ship that they really want. He doesn't know what it is, though. And that's why they're not risking a full assault. And Dax says, we're going to need a full scan of the ship, structural blueprints, everything to try to figure out what it is that they are looking for. So Cisco says, get started.

And then we cut to a little aside with Munez thinking he's dying. And Miles says, no, no, you're going to be fine. He reassures him. Cisco comes to check on him. And Munez keeps this banter going, even though he's getting worse and worse. And this is where Miles and Cisco step aside. Miles is really worried. He's dying.

This is where we learn about the anticoagulant in the Gem Hidar shot, that it's just not healing. It's not, they can't stop the bleeding. And Cisco says, well, we need the power back online and the aft weapon turret working. Cisco says, I'll take care of Munoz, and you go back to work on the ship, get back to work. That's an order. So he's kind of insisting that O'Brien put his attention on work and not Munez here. There is a wide establishing shot to show some time passing. I thought it felt very slapped together.

Just a couple of Jemadar walking for no apparent reason. It didn't feel like it helped escalate anything. energy. Yeah. Yeah. Do-to-do. Yeah. They're just kind of walking by a big wide shot. Okay.

So Iris Stephen Bear wanted this episode to be like the Alamo. The Alamo. And the Alamo, we all know, the American forces were extremely outnumbered by thousands and thousands of Mexican National Army guys, right? So that is what I thought was missing. Like, if this is, if the energy of a fight. And also, it should have been... Life or death. It should have been hundreds of Gem Hadar there

because they're there for one reason to save that founder, which is their God. You're not going to send four Gem Hadar there and that's what it looked like. Four Gem Hadar were there to kind of fight. And it was like, huh? Huh? So I had a problem with that big time.

Yeah, it didn't feel like that wide shot was helpful. It was actually the opposite of helpful. Right. Yes. Well, it de-escalated it instead of... It went the opposite way. for us, yeah. Well, we cut back inside after that wide shot, Dax, Miles, and Warf are there, and Dax says that this, this ship is similar. Chief, structurally, a lot about the ship's

design matches other Gem-Hadar warships we've seen. Yeah, similar to those. Yeah. But there are differences in this ship, and so O'Brien says he can restore power maybe one system at a time, because they don't really understand this ship so well. And Dax tells Miles that Moonie is is going to be okay. This is where Worf goes, no. No, he's not going to be okay. He's dying. And he should prepare for death. And Miles gets really triggered by this. He's ready to fight him about it. And he says, this boy's life is in our hands and I'm not going to give up on him. And this is where Dak sort of walks a wharf away. Like, let's separate these guys. This is, he's too emotionally involved here. But I'm also feeling like, oh my gosh, aren't we kind of just keep revisiting?

the same kind of scenes over and over again. It's like being stuck in the cave when they were going to make it like a Indiana Jones. Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't feel like anything's changing here, escalating or no. No, it's very one note. You know, Robbie, this scene really reminds me,

especially with Worf coming in saying he's done. And when he says it was over the moment he was shot by the Gem Hadar in response to O'Brien saying, if he gives up, it's over. It was very reminiscent of the scene when, if you recall, when the founder was female founder, when Odo becomes human in that episode,

where the female founder was on the ship talking, and Garrick comes up to talk to her. And she's like, you're dead. You're all dead. You're dead. All Cardassia is dead. The moment you attacked us. And this is like, he's dead the moment he was shot

by the head. Same thing. It was very, there was this feeling of finality. Like, it's done. You're up a creek without a battle. Similar. Yeah. That's the vibe I got in terms of the scene.

Well, we cut a little later back to the command center. And Munez is shivering here. He's shaking. He's going into shock. Yes. Yeah. Kalana calls on the intercom again, like the school office calling to make a report. Sound was just not great.

Shame, shame, shame. She asked to meet outside again. Captain Cisco, I know you're annoyed with me. I understand. You feel betrayed, but, you know, let's go talk. By the way, the writers felt that this was one of the mistakes they made. They should never have brought anyone outside. Bringing Cisco outside sort of lowered the tension of the suspense of what's about to happen.

They should have stayed in that damn thing the entire time, just like the troops at the Alamo stayed in the fort and didn't run out. Right? So this was another nitpicking. Especially not our leader. how well we cut outside Cisco's got a phaser rifle this time pointed at her she admits that they are looking for something on

the ship and says that you know just let them have what we want and you can keep the ship and Cisco says we'll tell them what it is you know tell me what it is and we'll bring it out to you and she loses patience

at this point she's like I feel like we've reached an impasse negotiations are over and this is where Siska runs back to the ship, jumps inside the hatch with wharf, and the battle begins. This is when the bombing starts. Yeah, this is the beginning of the bombing. And again, they're trying to do the Alamo when the Mexican troops are firing cannons at the Alamo over and over again. They were being bombarded for hours.

And that's the state that they were trying to get to, where they were constantly being bombarded. We didn't see any of the barrage. heard it, right? We didn't see any of it. And we don't really need to see it, right? But we heard it. But it didn't escalate the tensions with it. Because they're supposed to be, all of our heroes are supposed to be on edge and like a live wire. We're like, oh, like everything bombing around them. They can't take it any longer. Because there's that one scene that comes up a little bit later where Cisco's like, pull it together, folks. And he's sitting here saying that, but the stakes weren't that high. Everyone was kind of like, yeah, we're inside the shit. Like there wasn't that energy. It wasn't as focused. They're missing an arc to it. Everything felt very much the same level, even though... Very flat. Very flat. Cisco got mad and there were moments where all of us had lost our temper, but not in a way that

then when we lost it, that we stayed elevated. Right. It wasn't consistent. It didn't go. Yes, there was no. Isn't that the director's job to work with the script supervisor to make sure that we're all? And the same tone?

Because you're shooting things out of order, so other people have to pay attention. That's why we all have different jobs on a set, because our one job is mentally, should be all we're thinking about. Right. You're supposed to be all on the same page. Yes, and that's why we'll work together. Well, we cut back inside. The battle has begun. Miles has the power up and going, but now the ship's being attacked. He says things are starting to shut down. And Munoz is even worse. He's definitely. Definitely in shock now. Dax goes to comfort him a bit.

And we learned the Vorder are not trying to destroy the ship. They're firing these concussion shells, trying to rattle them, trying to get them to just give up or give them what they want. I think the quick fix would have been for audio, whoever's editing of this, to make those bombs louder, you know, where they have to like really talk loud and scream in order to get their thing, you know, message across. The ship should be shaking a little bit, something, but nothing.

nothing. Well, this is where Dax makes a joke where they say the border doesn't want the ship, she wants something on board it. O'Brien says any idea what it is. Cisco, it could be anything, a coding device, guidance system. And Dax says, maybe she lost an earring.

Seriously, do they do any favors? No, they didn't do anything. No, honestly, but it's kind of a through line. There are times when they have written my character to make these stupid-ass jokes. And it's incongruent with the character I'm playing. And the circumstances.

And the circumstances. Yes. If you're at the alamo, it doesn't feel like the right, the appropriate. It was maddening. It was maddening when I would have to do that because it wasn't funny. It didn't seem like my character from everything else they wrote about me. Right. It's just odd.

Terry, can I just say, I think the writers in their mind, when they wrote that, they thought, Okay, Dax has the experience of all these different lifetimes that she's lived. She's the most calm in the midst of battle of anyone here because she survived everything. So she's trying to calm everyone down by throwing in a funny line is what I think the writers. Thank you for that, Ben. That makes me feel a lot better. Yeah. But it still doesn't land.

No, it did not land. It didn't land. But I think that's the impetus. Yes. But their motivation, thank you for saying that that makes me feel a lot better. It really does. Because it feels like... Right.

From that angle, it does make sense, though, right? If they're talking about Dax being seven lifetimes old. Yeah, but I have ADHD, and I say stupid shit like that sometimes, and I'm like, what just came out of your mouth? On my mouth. Seriously. And you can't help it. It's like the...

It's just a maddening brain function, malfunction or, you know what I mean? Yes, yes. But it... Yeah, I hear you. Sorry. It's frustrating. Also, I think Mune. as his shakes should have ended like you're in shock and then don't you go still after that after a while

i don't know do you you don't stay like shaking the entire time okay no yeah it seemed like a lot of i don't think so i think there becomes a different level after that he does stop shaking because he starts talking about fireworks later though right that's about to happen okay is that where we're at right yeah this is the scene where we're sorry we cut we a little time has passed oh brian says he's the weapon up and running, this cannon thing, but it's stuck in one position. And Mournier's is really bad in the scene. He's hallucinating about this childhood memory, this festival that he's kind of, he's Fireworks.

Seeing fireworks and Miles plays along with it. Dax says that the Gem-Hadar travel very lightly. They have very little stuff. She did find some data crystals in the computer room, she says. Worf comes in with a computer console that he's ripped off the wall. Oh, my word. Dax. Dax is teasing him here.

They kind of bicker. Well, that bothered me, too. I shouldn't have said I was just kidding. I should have said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I lost my temper or something like that. But I wasn't joking. So why would I say I was joking? But anyway.

Yeah, the bickering felt a little misplaced. here. But if we had tension elevating and elevating then it feels like appropriate and don't say you're joking. It's like we're just up against it. I'm sorry. And then, or I apologize,

but not this. I was just kidding. Yeah, yeah. Miles goes to Wharf to look at the console that he's ripped off the wall and Worf says to him hey, this is no way for Munoz to die in this kind of suffering. offering in pain and they start arguing about it because Worf's basically saying put him out of his

misery right yes does not want to do that and Cisco just snaps here and he tells him stop fighting this is where Dax makes another joke oh god tough guys a little pressure and they buckle that was stupid I just lost my temper yeah he takes a swing at it swing yeah yeah he takes a swing at Worf, Worf stops it. That's when Cisco says, enough. Your Starfleet officers, stop acting, start acting like it. So he's really lost it. But again, it didn't warrant that, I mean, Cisco, I'm going to say this, he did a good job in his line reading of, I said, that's enough.

You start, start, your Starfleet officer now, start acting like it. But the hubbub that's supposed to happen before that line wasn't at that level. It was like so low. It's like, why aren't you telling them to get a hold of themselves when they kind of already have a hold of themselves because they're not even there's no tension here. And then Dax's response is to make a joke tough guys, a little pressure

in they buckle. Cisco snaps at you, Dax, if you haven't noticed no one's laughing. So he's getting really stressed out here. Looking at the intention of me losing my temper and O'Brien losing his temper and Wharf, it just

feels like the scene wasn't written correctly or directed correctly because the word actually i think the words are there it just didn't build in a way correct you know what i mean and again the shell and it could have enough to say tough guys dax you know i wouldn't have had to say more it's just some of it needs to be tighter the writing needed to be tighter but also the direction should have been on top of it reminding us that we're, even though the defiance coming, we're up against it right now. And we shouldn't be treating this like, well, the defiance coming. We'll have our rectogeno any moment. What if the

defiant gets in a battle with the Gemhidar? They know we're there. And they just shot down the runabout. Yeah. So if we're focused on this one place, us being stuck in this gemhadar ship, there should have been a lot more going on to make it look like everything is Harry Carey. We're part of that is the shelling. Right. It's the shelling. The shelling wasn't loud enough. It wasn't moving around. It was everything was totally still inside there. Like you guys were in a goddamn library or something. You know, it's like what's happening? Even though we're professional, it should be eventually starting to rattle us even more than the scene. There's no rattling at all. That's my point.

okay and everything agreed swinging it of o'brien at wharf was sort of like where'd that come from i get it he said one thing they kind of pissed him off but that swing would only happen if everyone's like well in the swing make it land make it okay you didn't kill him right but make it land let it land let them be in a scuffle a little bit more so that it's real yeah it does feel like this whole episode is a bit herky jerky you know it's like It's not, there's not things that build, like a musical kind of build to a crescendo and reset. It's just, um, that would have been great. Like a roller coaster ride, except for every next hill is even bigger than the last one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And even when Cisco gets control of things, he's like, chief, I want that power grid up and running. Brian says, I, sir. Sisko says, commander war, if I see if you can get that turret to rotate. Everyone's response was like, aye, sir, I sir. like there was so casual it wasn't all no and i say yes sir a little bit like you yes yes yes

yes yes as i walk by him why are we so relaxed we shouldn't be this relaxed no well cisco's not relaxed he snaps at everybody at the end of the scene he says chief i want the power grid up and running wharf i want to see that turret rotate dax you know uh search search this ship again and so you find with the border one and munias you stay alive right so he's kind of yes well he's the only one that's kind of lost it everyone else is kind of like you know a little bit but again it's the loudness of the of the barrage it's not there yes and also how much more would it have been is we are all doing our best and Cisco is still losing his shit so that would be even more interesting because we're all like just trying to figure it out.

We're having more passion talking about it than I remember seeing it. Yes. Then in the episode itself. Well, there's a captain's log coming up next. He says, the Gem Hadar's barrage has continued on and off for 10 hours. Oh, my word. That would drive anyone nuts. Right.

Yes. 10 hours of explosions. Chief O'Brien has restored the main power in the helm control. If we can bring the ship's engines on. online maybe we can lift off and escape so we cut back to the command center they try to launch the ship basically in this very dramatic sequence but the ship can't do it they cannot get it going and then miles after this big dramatic attempt he goes over to checka munias munez is dead he's died very sad i wrote down it could have been sadder like i feel like because it wasn't yeah the emotion wasn't

established as real and authentic. This moment didn't quite land. And they drug it out in a way that kept revisiting it. I don't know. There was something about he seemed to be in the same place for a long time. Munez? Yeah. I don't know.

There was just something about. They kept cutting to him and it was too much. The same story. The same story. Yeah. Yeah. So Munoz is dead. O'Brien has a.

moment of shock about that. We have a time, time cut here, and Cisco's feeling the weight of this mission. He talks about five people have died. And that's a lot for Star Trek, like, to be that specific, even though I know sometimes we blow up ships. But for this story, these five people that were on this mission in a small group on a mission, five people have died. That's a lot. And we were just discovering minerals. So we weren't like in this, we weren't battle ready. No. Wasn't it Armin who said that, Robbie, that DS9 has a highest body count of deaths of any show in the 90s, right?

I think he does. But to give credit to this episode of having the most potential, this is the one episode that actually talked about the consequences of actual deaths. You know what I'm saying? That they were real deaths of real people that we know. And it would have helped if O'Brien called Enrique Munez, Kike, in the prior times that we've seen Munez. You know what I'm saying?

If that little nickname had already been given to us or introduced to us. Just if they had the chemistry from the first scene. It wasn't there. While they're feeling the weight of these people that have died, a little goo hits the ground. Two splats of glue, goo. Flats of glue and suddenly more. And then a piece of equipment on the ceiling morphs.

And it's a changeling. The changeling drips to the floor, tries to attack them, tries to form into something maybe, but it just oozes down into a pile of goo and... Can't hold a shape. Can't hold its shape. It's dying. Dying.

And it groans and dies and, uh, we cut outside in this scene. And the Gem Hadar and Kalana are just standing still in a lineup, listening to the groan from outside. It didn't, this moment felt very... No. It just didn't feel active. I remember Rick Berman once saying in a screening, he's like, it's called motion pictures because I want people moving.

There should be motion. The camera should be moving or the actors. And when we cut out to Kalana and the Gem Hadar, they're just sort of standing there. I don't know. For a group shot. For a group shot. Well, again, but we learned later that the entire attack force ends up killing themselves because of the death of the changeling.

But that reaction shot of them standing in that weird line out there, there was no anything. The Geminar should have been looking at each other like, oh, shit. The changeling's dead. Our God is dead. None of that was there at all. Well, Kalana beams into the ship all by herself. We learn that the Gemadar killed themselves. She says Sisko should have trusted her that she was telling the truth, that she could have helped them.

They wouldn't have had to go through all of this. Cisco does realize in the scene they should have all trusted each other that he should trusted her she should trusted him none of this would happen. But she lied to begin with she did lie in a number of ways. In a number of ways

so that's what was the thread the possibility of trust was gone as soon as she was doing this cat and mouse game with him yeah but they played it as if we've never seen a changeling before like this it was like what this is such a secret thing like she definitely she should have said look we've got a changeling

on board please let us could be injured let us be injured let us help yeah and cisco's already had enough cisco the entire gang of ds9 has already had enough exposure to changelings including odo that no one's going to be afraid of that they're going to be oh my god a changeling no it's not but they made it sound we're the federation yes put life above anything else anything else and that's not aimed to kill anybody. We only do that to survive and protect our own. So it's insane that she knows that much about Cisco and the Federation and doesn't just say, hey, we have a changeling.

Help us out. Yeah, exactly. She should have known that. I did not like when the changeling was about to die. I don't like the sound effects they gave it. Like it was a monster. That bugged me too. And I don't like that.

Yeah. Well, also, one of the things they talked about the difference between. us in the Gem Hadar is they were expendable, right? Yeah. When we found out like this one guy I was close to was only three years old, but he was a full-blown man, our way, our honor of rescuing our injured and taking care of our own, even when they are injured, is in a lot of ways to the Gem Hadar, a weakness that we have. That's a weakness, not a strength.

So she knows that about us, too. So who else would have the empathy it would take to say, you can have your guy? Yeah. It would be us, right? Exactly. Yes. Exactly. And we would think intellectually it would make sense that she would know that.

Well, she scoops up some of the remains of the founder into the small little tube. And she does ask Cisco in this scene if he has. any gods. And he says, well, I have things I believe in. And she comments, I hope getting this ship and taking it back was worth it, was worth all of this. And he says, so do I. And then she zaps out with her little tube of changeling. A little tube of changeling, is that you just say? A little bit of ashes, right? Don't the Ferengi like auction off every, but don't the Ferengi auction off their ashes to like they sell it they sell their body like every every part of them is worth something you would think that a god you wouldn't just take a little tube you take the whole

thing every like ash you need a little dustbuster to come in and just take it all up you can see that cisco's got regret here and uh and uh we wonder was this worth it so we go back to the mess hall back on the station. Dax comes in to see how Cisco's Starfleet update went. And Cisco says that he's deeply troubled by the ones that died on this. And Dax said, well, they died to save many other people potentially. So they knew what they were doing. They signed up for this. And Cisco admits in this scene that he'd do it all again. But he does remember Professor Sommack's favorite lesson from the academy and that was always maintain emotional distance between yourself and those under your command then he reminisces about some of the good memories of those people that died and says

even though he's got good memories it doesn't make it any easier and dax's advice is well maybe it never should make it easy which i thought was very wise yeah i like this scene this is a good scene. I do too. Yeah. I think Avery was great in this scene and playing that sort of, you know, this being despondent and whatnot. But again, these are unnecessary deaths. All of them. No one should have died in this. And it just made me so angry watching this episode. Sorry. Well, he says it was heartbreaking when Cisco's talking about the memories. He goes, you know, Jake and Munoz have the same birthday. Did you know that? And I performed the ceremony at Hoyas' wedding. And he said, He knows Hoyer very well.

And Rooney plays the trumpet, and he heard him at Corks once. And he had people dancing. So all these, like, very human memories and emotionally connected memories were very evocative in this scene, I thought. It was a, the scene does stand alone. And it was really effective, I think, about unnecessary loss of life, you know, and the regret about that. Yeah. I like that my character got to also tell Cisco how proud they were to be a part of Starfleet and how proud they were to serve under him because also we all know the risks. I mean, any one of us could have died, right?

And we have to face that every time, every day being a part of Starfleet. And then Cisco says, but it doesn't make it easier. And that's when she says maybe nothing should. And it's true. I really agree with what they talked about in this and how they spoke about it and feel about it. Good writing on this scene. Very good writing.

And this last scene is really nice too because we're in the cargo bay and O'Brien's talking to the casket, to Mune's casket, and describing the success of finally getting the ship free. So he's sort of talking about getting it to rock a little bit. No, you would have loved it. And Worf comes in and he says, oh, you're doing what Klingons do. And he explains that comrades will stay with the body to keep predators away until

the spirit is ready to make the journey to Stovacore. And then Wharf sits down and O'Brien's like, what are you doing? He says, we'll both keep the predators away. It's a touching ending. Yeah, they sit together. Camera pulls back beautifully. the last couple scenes were very moving but right but boy they would have landed so much better if that relationship between o'brien and kike was better yes yeah and if we had a bee's storyline yes we'll talk about that in our bonus material bonus material let's talk about theme slash lesson slash moral for this episode. We'll go Robbie, then Terry, then myself.

Go ahead. My lesson is that trust can be hard, but it is sometimes worth the risk. Good. Because in this situation, the price they paid for not having trust was everybody lost. Everybody lost. And not just Starfleet. All the Jim Hed are dead, too. So it's not good.

Terry, what is your theme slash lesson slash moral? Trust was my thing, too. If you don't build trust, you can't get anywhere. You lose the opportunity for both of you to achieve something greater. And I agree without trust, you don't have a relationship. You cannot move forward. And because they could not get past that, we lost a lot of people. I mean, there are people up in the runabout we were going to lose anyway because of the Gem Hadar.

But we didn't need to lose Munez for sure. Yeah. Or the changeling. Yeah. I'm all on the same page with you guys. Trust, I believe, is the foundation of any good relationship. And without trust, you have nothing. Mm-hmm.

We're all on the same page. What is our Patreon poll theme and moral for this episode, Terry? It is submitted by Tim Newmark. Conflict could be avoided if people could have honest discussions about what they want. I think it's hard to be vulnerable enough to have that intimacy in our personal relationships, but certainly in this situation, it was key. I guess another thing could be stop second guessing yourself because both sides were like, wait a minute, are they trying to do something dastardly, you know, what's happening here?

Like it was always about like, there's a weird thing happening and we're going to protect ourselves from that. Instead of just paranoid, yeah, just they're all playing games. Just speak what's on your mind and be honest about it and trust that that's going to get you to where you want to be instead of, yeah, everyone thought everyone else had another agenda and it was ridiculous. Especially if everybody stomps off. It's like, okay, then just process and let's come back to it when we've all calmed down. Thanks everyone for tuning in to our recap and discussion of the episode, The Ship. Thank you again to Terry for a guest hosting with us again, hosting with this and this episode. And join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing looking for parmach in all the wrong places with Armin and Terry.

Is that the name of the episode? Is that really it? Holy moly, that's a long. I am really excited about this one. No, wow. Oh. Because. No spoilers.

I believe I'm getting together with my pal and your pal. Isn't this the one where Armin and I are doing this? Yeah, that's what I said for both of you guys. Oh, you said it? I said it already. So sorry. That's okay. Golly, I must need food.

I need food. Clearly. All right. All right. For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material. And for everyone else, we'll see you next time. Bye. I don't know.